That's a new pairing for the Munster Final. It must be a while since they met in the final, I can't remember it. Have they ever met in a final before?
There was a lot of emotion around Limerick's win over Tipp but I reckon Tipperary are an average side. Over the 3 games Tipp actually looked better than Limerick. To come back from 10 points down the second day was great but they would have been dead and buried in the first half by a good team.
The Limerick defence is a weak link and the Waterford forwards will score goals against them. They'll score against any team in Ireland the way they are playing at the minute. I can't see anything other than a good win for Waterford (6-7 points) but Limerick are still in with a chance of a semi final place depending on the draw.
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 02, 2007, 09:52:58 AM
To come back from 10 points down the second day was great but they would have been dead and buried in the first half by a good team.
and by a fairer ref.
Limerick will put it up to Waterford physically but don't have the scoring power to overly-trouble them. The spine of Limerick's defense has proved very solid this year so far, but Waterford should be able to unlock it eventually, as they did against Cork. They'll keep swapping their 6 forwards until they find the right combination. In the Cork game this happened when they moved Seamus Prendergast out on Kevin Hartnett. They might not need as many changes on sunday.
Waterford should run out comfortable winners in the end, with a facile last 15 minutes or so which could prove little more than target practice for Waterford. Ultimately its not gonna tell us a whole lot about them though. They had serious troubles at the back against Cork and won't be tested enough in that area to know if those troubles are now eradicated or not.
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 02, 2007, 09:52:58 AM
That's a new pairing for the Munster Final. It must be a while since they met in the final, I can't remember it. Have they ever met in a final before?
There was a lot of emotion around Limerick's win over Tipp but I reckon Tipperary are an average side. Over the 3 games Tipp actually looked better than Limerick. To come back from 10 points down the second day was great but they would have been dead and buried in the first half by a good team.
The Limerick defence is a weak link and the Waterford forwards will score goals against them. They'll score against any team in Ireland the way they are playing at the minute. I can't see anything other than a good win for Waterford (6-7 points) but Limerick are still in with a chance of a semi final place depending on the draw.
1934 the last time the two teams met in the Munster Final.
Tight at the beginning but I expect the Deise boys to pull away & win comfortably
I think that Waterford will find it difficult to deal with Limerick's style - also they are impossible to put away... Me money's on the Treatymen.
Waterford hurling in general achilles heel has always been discipline and with Limericks in your face approach it'll be interesting to see how Eoin Kelly and Mullane cope. In fairness to Mullane he seems to have caught himself on a bit but I'd expect it to be hot and heavy with Limerick going all out for the Munster cup. I don't think the Munster cup is top of Waterfords priorities this year but it'll give them the easier run to the AI stages later so they'll not be lying down either.
I still think Waterford have all the aces and should win by 7 to 10 but they'll have to earn every single score the hard way. Limerick don't do giving in this year but lack reliable fire power to trouble Waterford enough.
Quote from: johnneycool on July 03, 2007, 09:59:44 AM
I still think Waterford have all the aces and should win by 7 to 10 but they'll have to earn every single score the hard way. Limerick don't do giving in this year but lack reliable fire power to trouble Waterford enough.
A year thats scored over 20 points in their last 3 games lacks reliable fire power. Limerick like the Dubs will win this if they don't go asleep
No way GNevin. Limerick will be underdogs for this, and rightly so. Don't be fooled by decent displays against well matched opposition, who are also a good bit off the pace of potential All Ireland winners.
Waterford are on that sort of plane now, or getting there, and have more good hurlers, more experience and more firepower than Limerick. The only doubt in my mind is if Waterford will be as fired up for Sunday as Limerick will be. Waterford have bigger fish to fry this year in their own minds, whereas a munster title would be huge for Limerick.
I'm still going to go for Waterford by 6 points.
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 02, 2007, 09:52:58 AM
That's a new pairing for the Munster Final. It must be a while since they met in the final, I can't remember it. Have they ever met in a final before?
.they met in the 1933 and 1934 munster finals both won by limerick
Obviously I will be going for Limerick (been one of very few from the county on this board), Limerick will be underdogs for sure, however if any team can put it up to waterford, and they will run them very close.
But here's hoping! I have taken monday off just in case.
Has to be Waterford if they are seriously thinking about tackling Cork/Kilkenny for the All-Ireland later in the year.
Limerick & Tipp seemed to be a close game between two evenly matched teams but no one would give then a chance against Cork/Kilkenny.
Hurling needs a new final pairing and Waterford have the potential to do it but only if they beat Limerick well on Sunday.
Waterford by 6+.
I dont mind who wins, would bea great boost for limerick to win munster, but agree with superdooper, waterford would probably want to win if they're going to beat kilkenny or cork later in the year, which i dont think limerick can hope to. everyone complains about cork v kk but lastyears final had the biggest TV audience ever, and for the first time bigger then the football final so cork vs kk isnt all that unattractive for your average punter. I would love to see waterford do it.
is the real munster final not on till saturday week?
Waterford by 6 while playing at half pace!
One of the biggest days in the GAA calendar and we have 12 posts on the Munster Final (13 counting this). Setting up a hurling section clearly hasn't been a huge success :-\.
My money is on Waterford. If they can keep their discipline they have the forwards to win well. Any regulars on here heading down? I would have gone but it clashed with the football at Clones.
Quote from: SouthArmaghBandit on July 04, 2007, 02:06:38 PM
One of the biggest days in the GAA calendar and we have 12 posts on the Munster Final (13 counting this). Setting up a hurling section clearly hasn't been a huge success :-\.
My money is on Waterford. If they can keep their discipline they have the forwards to win well. Any regulars on here heading down? I would have gone but it clashed with the football at Clones.
I'd loved to have gone down and made a weekend out of it, but have a qualifier game against the Slashers to take in. Would have been a great year to do it, what with no Cork or Tipp in the final... ;D
Waterford to win by six points - Limerick will stick with them for 40-50 minutes and make it difficult due to the tenacity of their backs and the loose play of the Waterford back six but hard to see Limerick outscore a Waterford whose forwards are far more ruthless than Tipps.
Remember that Tipp in the 1st drawn game could have had the game wrapped up at half time if they had taken their goal chances, big Dan and Mullane won't miss those can't of opportunities.
Here in Tipperary, most followers expect Waterford to win, which is more a commentary of how we rate our own team rather than not rating Limerick. At any rate, it is a novel pairing and to be welcomed by followers of all counties.
As virtually always the Munster Hurling final clashes with the weekend of the Connacht Football final. Must go some year, its not as if Sligo are involved in the Connacht final every year but that being the case there's the club or the qualifiers.....
Anyway, back to the thread - a novel pairing which is great but I fear that Waterford are just too good for Limerick. That said, a Munster title would mean a lot to the Treatymen and not much to the Deise. That should be enough to keep it tight enough. Still, Waterford comfortably would be my call.
Just heard that Damien Reale is out of the match on Sunday. A loass but mind you Limerick should be used to playing without him. I actually think this will be a bit closer than many posters think. Limerick have improved a lot as the 3 match series developed. Waterford will still have too much fire power up front but I can see them winning with only a couple of points to spare. It could be a very interesting game if not exactly a classic.
Any of the regular posters heading up for the game? I'll be there myself. Maybe there could be a meeting place for GAA Boarders?
Im finding this a hard game to call,as a betting man i've filed it under "no bet",a rarity for me.
Limerick arent as bad as people seem to think,they could,some would say should,have beaten Cork in last years All Ireland quarter final,eventually going down by a point,the same margin that the rebels went on to beat the Deise by in the semi final,the Tipp trilogy will have done the treaty men the world of good and they go into Sunday with a live chance but so much depends on the Waterford forward sextet as always,if they click they have the ability to destroy any and every team in the country.
The new Brian Geary is completely unrecognisable from the error prone,hesitant,slow of foot and hand Geary of old but he will be facing a proper centre forward in Prender/Shanahan on Sunday who wont allow him to dictate as he did in two and a half games against Tipp,the only time Geary looked in any trouble was against the extremely combatitive O'Dwyer,the Deise forwards have a patent on combatitive,big Dan,Prender,Mullane,Kelly,McGrath jnr etc..
At the other end Ken McGrath plays more of a sweeping role behind his wingbacks as opposed to a stand up stopper type of centreback,this allows his direct opponent quite a bit of freedom,Ollie Moran could well do a bit of damage there,of course the flip side of that arguement is that Ken will hit a lot of ball on Sunday and when it comes to quality delivery into the forwards he has no peer in modern hurling.Its a dilemna that every team facing this Deise side have,do you "mark" McGrath with your centre forward negating your own players influence but limiting the quality of ball in to big Dan and co or do you allow your centre forward the freedom ?
Shaughs was quiet enough in the Tipp games i thought apart from when he went to right half forward in the third game where he dominated Maloney for the 15 or so minutes he was there,scoring a couple of points from play and winning a free,Limerick will be loathe to move him away from the inside line on Sunday though as Cork showed there are goals for the taking in the Waterford full back line,Barry Foley would be more of a poacher than say Sean O'Connor or the two Tobins so i assume thats why he gets a start on Sunday.
Begley was invisible against Tipp the last day,in fairness to him he would be one of the last names to come to mind when thinking of forwards who would be effective in a two man full forward line,Bennis missed a trick there,its unlikely Limerick will have a third midfielder on Sunday,highly unlikely now that Barry Foley has replaced Tobin in the starting line up imho,Begley against Prendergast will be no place for the faint hearted on the edge of the square,given the right type of ball,ie with snow on it,the big Limerick man can be effective.
Niall Moran is an enigma,more of a natural forward than the brother but less reliable,who knows which Niall will turn up,if the same Niall that took Eamonn Corcoran for five points from play the last day turns up,well,we'll see,Browne is a hard man to get the better of though,John O'Brien took him for a couple of scores in last years quarter final by outfielding him,Moran is good in the air,better than O'Brien,this may well be an avenue that Limerick hit with their puckouts.
Mike Fitz was excellent in patches against Tipp but his shoot on sight policy usually results in a large wide tally as well as a few scores,when he learns to link play a little better he will be a fine addition to the Limerick half forward line.
Banger and Dodge in centrefield are a decent partnership,O'Brien should be told in no uncertain terms not to shoot under any circumstances,just win ball and distribute it to the lads who have radars that work ;)
Foley will be under pressure as im sure Justin will put big Dan/prender on him to win the puckouts,Lawlor is back in his best position,he aint a centrefielder,he needs to be facing the ball.
Reale is a loss as im sure he would have been detailed to pick up Mullane but Seamus Hickey will probably get the job now,Reale is stronger than Hickey but not as quick so it may actually work in Limericks favour,O'Riordan doesnt convince me at all,he is a weak link imho.
Lucey is a good,solid,full back,nothing spectacular,doesnt take risks,the musical chairs in Waterfords forwards wont faze him,he will be as comfortable facing Mullane as big Dan.
Murray had been excellent up to the error that gifted Willie Ryan a goal in extra time of the third Tipp game.
As for the Deise,well we know all about the power of their forward line,Shanahan,Mullane,Prendergast and Kelly would start for every county in Ireland,including Kilkenny and Cork,Flynn is probably in the dying throes of his career at this stage and Molumphy isnt at the same level as the rest of them but its a hugely impressive forward sextet nonetheless plus Jack Kennedy,Brick and Eoin McGrath could come in to the forwards without weakening them appreciably,scary !
Waterfords problems lie further back the field and between their ears,Murphy,Prendergast and Kearney are decent hurlers individually,as is Hennessy in the goal but collectively they leak more scores than they should,a case of the whole being lesser than the sum of its parts,Corks full forward line scored 2-11 off them in the Munster semi,that is some serious scoring for a full forward line,Waterford cant always rely on their forwards to post larger totals than they concede until they tighten up that elusive victory against Cork or Kilkenny in Croke park will always be tantalisingly close but still out of reach but having said that Limerick are not Cork or Kilkenny and Thurles aint Croke park !
Anyone heading to Thurles on Sunday should forego those last four pints in the square and head in for what should be a cracking minor final between Tipp and Cork as we attempt to return the favour and halt the Rebels four in a row attempt,this is a serious Tipp outfit considered far superior to last years All -Ireland winning side,watch out for the captain, left half forward Brendan Maher,the boy is a bit special.
my reading of Limerick is slightly different HOH. Murray is an exceptional keeper. The goal against Tipp was a rare blunder, and it'll be interesting to see if its affected his confidence levels going into sunday. I doubt it.
I don't really rate Hickey as a corner back. Hes a bit too loose and looks a little clueless in the position. Hes a fine hurler though and might be more at home out on the wing. He contributes excellently in patches and has been known to make majestic tackles at times, but hes not the type whose going to tie up the likes of John Mullane, who I expect he'll be detailed to look after.
Lucey has been going well at 3 and this game could suit him, if Waterford persist with the high ball in on top of whoever's in there, tactic. He won't be bet under the high ball by even the great Big Dan or S Prender. Reale will be a major loss. Hes more about the pulling and dragging and getting away with it (just ask Eoin Kelly), but he does it to great effect. They'll be at a major weakness here.
Their half-back line is there for the taking too. Riordan is a very poor hurler. Foley is slower than ever. Its Geary thats holding that line together. I firmly believe Tipp would have been out of sight in the replay if they hadn't switched Egan off Riordan. He was roasting him. It made little sense to move him, but I suppose thats babs for you. I expect Waterford to well get the better here, especially if they stick Seamus Prendergast out on Riordan in the first 10 minutes, which I'll expect they will.
Midfield is no contest. I don't rate Limerick here at all. Dodge is poor. He has his moments, but not enough of them really. Lawlor has been awful any time hes played there this year and looked really out of sorts in the second Tipp game before being hauled ashore just before half-time. Mike O'Brien will feature here too at some stage, and though I admire his work rate, hes just not a good enough hurler to be able to gain control of this sector for Limerick. With Brick and maybe Moloumphy on the other side, work rate alone won't be enough for Limerick. Waterford should control this sector easily enough, with a performance more reminscent of their league final against Kilkenny than the one that saw them struggle here against Cork.
Where to start with Limerick's forwards. I'd expect Ken McGrath to at least go point for point with Ollie Moran, so the Ahane man won't be the influencial figure hes been to date. Beyond that, who knows. Who'll even start? Would Barry Foley make any other county team? Ditto Shaughs, who has never come close to his potential in a senior inter-county shirt. Does Mike Fitz have a full game in him? Can Niall Moran play 2 good games back to back? I don't think so. Begley is big and awkward, but so is Declan Prendergast. Mike Tobin?
Whatever way you look at it Limerick are a poor side. They have a scattering of decent hurlers, but most of these are only half-decent, and are certainly not numerous enough to curtail the Waterford challenge. After a spirited start I'd expect them to be drifting badly on the scoreboard. Eventually the heads will go down and Waterford should be coasting by the end.
The Waterford fullback line may of had a bad day against Cork but equally they had a good day out against Kilkenny in the league final with no goals conceeded. It's been long and many's a day since a team held kilkenny to zero goals. If anything they struggle against real pace something that shocks, and Barry Foley don't possess, so I think they'll be fine.
Quote from: johnneycool on July 05, 2007, 12:09:09 PM
The Waterford fullback line may of had a bad day against Cork but equally they had a good day out against Kilkenny in the league final with no goals conceeded. It's been long and many's a day since a team held kilkenny to zero goals. If anything they struggle against real pace something that shocks, and Barry Foley don't possess, so I think they'll be fine.
more serious questions were asked by Cork than by Kilkenny though. I wouldn't be fearful of Eoin Murphy as he has turned in fantastic performances so often. Its Prendergast I'd be worried about if I were Waterford. He's over-elaborate on the ball and tries to run himself out of trouble too often. How often has he conceded a free or got the rest of the defense into trouble by losing a ball? I don't think Limerick will be asking too much of him on sunday, which is all the more worrying for them, as he could be there for the taking in a quarter-final.
One positive for Waterford is that James Murray is unlikely to start. If he had, he'd have probably done ok, but hes been making stars out of wing-forwards (most notably Cronin from Cork) all year. Hes not up to it anymore.
Chairman confesses to ticket famine
05 July 2007
Munster Council Chairman Jimmy O'Gorman has admitted that there is a ticket famine beginning to surface ahead of Sunday's eagerly anticipated Munster SHC decider between Waterford and Limerick.
O'Gorman has revealed that demand has far surpassed supply for the Semple Stadium showdown that sees the sides meet for the first time in the decider since 1934.
Semple Stadium can hold 53,000 spectators but O'Gorman believes that at least 70,000 people are looking for tickets for the clash.
''There is simply a famine for tickets. This is a huge game for hurling in Munster and we could have had 70,000 people in Thurles,'' O'Gorman said.
''It is a sign of the times – people are looking forward to this game immensely, as not since 1934 have these two sides contested a senior final,'' he added.
Still hopeful of getting one myself. B&B booked in hope.
I'll miss it unfortunately. The Dublin 'junior A' county final beckons instead!
QuoteAs for the Deise,well we know all about the power of their forward line
Don't get me wrong, I think they'll have too much for Limerick on Sunday, but I don't think that Waterford (on average) take their points efficiently enough during the game. To-date, their forward line doesn't have the efficiency of Cork/Kilkenny on points-scoring, and unless that improves I can't see them lifting Liam.
I've been following my pet points theory for quite a while - in championship football (this year) I reckon that you need to be able to score 15-16 points to win an average game, in hurling it's 20-21.
On the other hand, they'll always get goals, and that might be enough.
I see some posters on anfearrua reckon that the game is 50/50, can't understand this. Waterford have being playing at a much higher level than Limerick over the past couple of years and despit the three game victory over Tipp they(Limerick) are still a fairly average team and I think this will be shown on Sunday.
Quote from: bottlethrower7 on July 05, 2007, 12:05:46 PM
Would Barry Foley make any other county team? Ditto Shaughs, who has never come close to his potential in a senior inter-county shirt.
Rarely post myself, just prefer to sit back and read, but had to here. Of course O'Shaughnessy whould make other inter county sides. The only full-forward line in the country that he wouldnt be guarenteed a start is Cork, but he probably would still start. Like you said he plays in a poor Limerick side who play with no game plan. When do Limericks midfielders or half backs ever deliver low ball into the corners? The only time the ball comes near him is when a speculative effort at a point has dropped short (he is about 5 foot 9) or if an opposing defender loses possession. Your correct in saying he hasnt come close to his potential, but im convinced that in a good side he would have all-stars by now. Being of a similar age myself and having played with or against plenty of top players (which I myself certainly am not :P) he is the most skillful hurler I have been lucky enough to share a field with.
Otherwise though I'd agree with you, Waterford by 5.
two decent sides
and as a neutral
I would love to see a good game in the final
to be honestI want to see my old alam mater (WRTC) ex players win this for the blah boys and hopefully then get the Cats on a bad day and win the AI
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2007, 11:56:56 PM
to be honestI want to see my old alam mater (WRTC) ex players win this for the blah boys and hopefully then get the Cats on a bad day and win the AI
You should cheer for Tipp in the minor game then, there'll probably be more WIT players present and future there than in any Waterford team.
Surprising Waterford team named, thought that Phelan had done enough to get a start. Moran will hardly play full back, would expect him to play in the half back line or midfield.Waterford to win by 4.
Just back from Thurles, Very disappointed from a Limerick perspective. We stood with waterford for 60 minutes of the game, then after they got 2 or 3 points ahead, we dropped the heads and Waterford just opened us up at the back and scored two soft goals. Waterford are going to take something special to against them to be beat.
Absolutely fantastic. Level on points going into the 12th round, we proceeded to knock them senseless. Quite a change from the width-of-the-woodwork wins that we're used to.
I think that was a good game for Waterford to win, in the bigger scheme of things. They've proved they can win close ones, (v Kilkenny), open ones (v Cork in the semi) and now tight, physical ones (v Limerick). It's a sign of a good team to play against a savagely determined outfit, match them for intensity, and then when tiredness creeps in, to let your hurling pull you away. It was a textbook example of the old favourites pre-match speech, of 'We're better than them, if we match their effort we'll win).
I have high hopes for Waterford this year, and every time I see them they give another example of a necessary component to a winning team. A sign of their growing maturity as well, in my opinion, was Eion Kelly's decision to take himself off frees. He missed a couple, and despite being an impulsive young fella, he could clearly be seen saying 'Flynner, you go on frees'. Next free awarded, and Flynn split the uprights. When players on the pitch also become self-policing, it's a big boost.
Waterford won without playing to their full potential, that's good for Waterford as over the last few years you alway felt that Waterford had to play to near 100% to win games. They now are like Kilkenny and Cork whereby they can win games while not hitting 5th gear.
I still fancy Cork or Kilkenny to win the All-Ireland but I reckon Waterford are the only ones capable of breaking their domination.