Well lads, what are your thoughts re this qualifier next Saturday? Home advantage to Tipp should help them, but surely the saga with Limerick will have left them jaded. Also, will Babs Keating still have the players mentally willing to play for him? If there was tension beforehand, I can't imagine losing to Limerick and entering the Qualifiers will have done much for morale.
Having said all that, Tipperary are probably a bit further on in their development at the moment than Offaly, and would on paper be the better team by 5 or 6 points. Formlines generally go out the window with Offaly as they are so inconsistant, but Tipps close encounters with Limerick reflects better on them than Offaly's capitulation in the relegation play off.
This is a big game for Offaly, if they want to continue the mini-momentum that has been built up with a solid first half display against the Cats, followed by a victory over Kilkenny in the Under 21's a week and a bit later. There are at least 10 senior panellists on the Under21 team, so hopefully that win will reinforce their belief that there is nothing to fear at this level.
Again, we need to make sure Tipp don't rattle in 3 or 4 goals. They have scored goals in all the games against Limerick, and we have a penchant for conceding by the lorryload. We held the Cats to 1 goal, and were not cut open too often by the runs through the middle. John Carroll is fairly adept at those types of run, so he needs to be curtailed by Oakley, Kenny or Brady, who are all big lads themselves, although not as, emm, powerful.
Obviouslly Eoin Kelly will need to be curtailed, but that is easier said than done. It's generally a case of damage limitation with him, although David Franks might be able to do a job on him, if he gets some sort of support out the field in terms of limiting ball in.
If our backs perform in a similar fashion to the Kilkenny game, then we have a real chance, but only if our forwards lift their game significantly, which I expect them to do to be honest. The likes of Rory Hanniffy and Joe Bergin need to be a lot more involved than they were in Portlaoise. Joe Bergin is suffering from the fact that he is a great white hope in a county with a small pick, so the likes of Rory, Gary, Brian Carroll and Brendan Murphy need to take the pressure off him from a scoring perspective, and let him flourish with loose shoulders.
All in all, there are more unknowns about Tipperary than Offaly, especially about the external factors such as Tiredness, Camp Disharmony, etc etc but I still would have to make Tipperary marginal favourites. However, I will not be one bit surprised if Offaly beat them, which will make Offaly a live contender for a quarter final place.
:)The fact that this game is in Thurles will be a major plus for Tipperary. If the match had been in Birr, I would give Offaly every chance, but I ca'nt see them beating Tipp in Thurles.
I'd prefer to discuss the match than the venue to be honest, but you make a good point Onlooker. I think it's an advantage myself, and Birr or Tullamore would certainly have helped our cause, so what in God's name have Offaly done in the previous 5 years to be ranked higher than 2 of the other teams in this group? Dublin have 2 home games, as have Tipperary. (Both Division 1 teams). Cork have one home game (Against Offaly!) and Offaly have one home game. Where is the logic, or fairness in that?
I think if offaly had to pick what time to play Tipp it would be now - you can't argue with after three matches which all went to extra time in the Munster championship.
You'd probably also argue that if Tipp were offered who they wanted to play first they might have picked Offaly too.
should be good.
Given that Dublin footballers (supposedly a superfit team) were so shattered having to play one week after a single replay (which was two weeks after the original game) then surely Offaly only have to take the field. The Tipp lads will hardly be able to lift a hurl.
I don't think so. As you mentioned below AZ, Offaly's performances against Limerick this last two years are not good indicators. But you never know.
I do'nt know why Tipp have 2 home games and Offaly only have 1. I would have thought it would have been the other way round, but I still think that home advantage is a huge bonus for Tipp on Saturday. I also feel that the game should have been played on Sunday to give Tipp an extra day from the Limerick game.
True Onlooker. Why would they not just have it on Sunday? I know the Leinster Final would be a clash with it, but it's still fairly tough on Tipp. Actually, they should have had the second replay of the Limerick game on Saturday night as well.
Quote from: fearglasmor on June 27, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
As you mentioned below AZ, Offaly's performances against Limerick this last two years are not good indicators. But you never know.
That's the big fear, that Offaly will just collapse again and send us back to square 1.
We need to start hard and fast to take advantage of any tiredness in the Tipp lads and don't let Tipp ease their way into the game.
Offaly forwards need to step it up from the last day and the half forward line needs to do better from our own puckouts.
I'm optimistic about this, could be a big game for these lads were they to win it.
I wouldn't be too worried about the venue, there should be a decent Offaly crowd there, hopefully, and Thurles is the kind of venue that can inspire a team.
QuoteI wouldn't be too worried about the venue, there should be a decent Offaly crowd there, hopefully, and Thurles is the kind of venue that can inspire a team.
Except that the Offaly minors are in the Football semi final the same day in Portlaoise. Almost at the same time. Our county board are brutal for standing up for our teams when it comes to fixtures planning etc.
which of the following is true?
a) "Tipperary have been in action in each of the last few weeks and will be much fitter and ready to go than Offaly"
or
b) "Tipp are tired after playing so much, advantage Offaly"
Personally I think a week is plenty of recovery time for a fit athlete. Tipp have been in the white hot of battle three times now this campaign, while Offaly have been involved in two x one-sided affairs.
So it's 'a' for me. But what do the rest of you think?
I think it depends on how the games goes Laoch. Tiredness at this level is as much mental as physical. If Offaly stay close, or get ahead, Tipp might not have the mental freshness for a fight like that.
If Tipp get well ahead, the mental stuff wil lbe easy.
I willl know more when Tipp name their team. We need a few fresh faces in i think or else the three matchs (with extra time) will come against us, whether its this match or the next so we must freshen thins up around midfield and half forward. I havent seen Offaly in two years so dont know what to expect. All i knwo is teh Offaly have a serious chance, a few of the Tipp subs are pissed off for not getting a game, a few injuries adn coming off a bad bad loss (its only Limerick) is not good for the fight that left in Tipp. I think Offally wil put it up to Tipp for a while before dying off
Tipp should win handy. But, they also should have beaten Limerick handily.
I agree with Lemon, Offaly have every chance here. They certainly have nothing to fear in this current Tipp team, and with the amount of young lads they have I expect they won't be fearing them. It'll be a close-run thing. I wouldn't expect it to be top-class fare, and I'd reckon Tipp will end up scraping through.
I would have had big doubts about the character and 'fight' of the Tipp side during the Limerick games, and when I saw them 6 or 7 points behind in the first half of the last game I would have thought that was them dead in the water. However they pulled themselves right back in to it so I would give them some credit for mental strength there.
Any word of the Tipp team?
It'll need to be insider stuff if were to know the Tipp team it seems.
From RTE:
"Tipperary manager Babs Keating is playing his cards close to his chest and will not reveal his team to take on Offaly in Saturday's All-Ireland hurling qualifier until just before throw-in."
Offaly team. Our latest dual player Sean Ryan gets a start in the corner forward position. Rory HAnniffy moves out to centre field.
Brian Mullins
Conor Hernon, Paul Cleary, David Franks
Kevin Brady, David Kenny, Ger Oakley
Rory Hanniffy (capt), Brendan Murphy
Gary Hanniffy, Derek Molloy, Brian Carroll
Sean Ryan, Joe Bergin, Damien Murray
Narrow Tipp win, got a goal in the end to make it look better than it actually was. Tipp were poor but Offaly were worse, they should have beaten Tipp. Needless frees and its was the frees that was keeping Tipp in the game throughout
Tipp looked exhausted after the match, they need a week off badly
An desperately disappointing loss for Offaly today. Never will we get a better chance to record a championship win over Tipperary. The worst Tipp side post '87 in terms of ability and also a tired team. Offaly can only blame themselves for losing this one. Wide after wide in the second when they could have pulled away and the concession of too many frees to a Tipp forward line that weren't brimming with inventiveness.
However, Offaly's effort, work rate and determination must be commended. The best example was Sean Ryan making his debut and putting a big performance. Brendan Murphy was industrious around midfield, Franks and Hernon battled furiously at the back and Kevin Brady also going well.
Also it was a big pity for Ger Oakley that he didn't get to put one over Tipp after what he has put up with during his career; the graffiti after the 2000 All Ireland and before that, the burning of the "good luck" banner. He had a superb first half, harassing everything that moved, risking life and limb for the ball. In the second half he found it tougher to deal with substitute John Carroll's more weighty presence.
David Kenny started well but perhaps conceded a couple of unnecessary frees. Offaly did improve when Kevin Brady went centre back and caught and cleared more ball.
Offaly's naivety in the concession of frees was disappointing. As astutely documented by the hurling experts on uibhfhaili.com ;D, Michael Haverty is the one referee who Offaly always get roasted by. He consistently penalises the dispossessing flick away of the sliotar, which is Offaly's hallmark. Unfortunately Offaly's inexperience showed by still conceding these sort of frees to help keep Tipp in touch in the second half. At times the Offaly backs fouled Tipp forwards who were running themselves into trouble.
Up front is where Offaly didn't make Tipp pay. The half forward line didn't prevent Tipp from winning clean catches under puckouts. Tipp's better catching gave them a big advantage, whereas any loose ball on the deck tended to be won by a more determined Offaly.
For the second year in a row Joe Bergin is having a quiet June and I wonder is he a player who is better suited to more Wintery conditions? He also made a silly error in getting a scoreable Offaly free cancelled out which lead straight to Tipp point late in the first half.
Gary Hanniffy was the best Offaly player for winning ball, though he had a mixed time of it distributing it. Brian Carroll rarely managed to escape the attention of the Tipp backs and wasn't in good shooting form. Derek Molloy picked up and early yellow and was taken off with management probably concerned he was a little too wound up.
With Offaly down a point at the death, Shane Dooley was through on goal and had a weak shot stopped. To be fair he was right to try and go for goal, as a draw would still have seen Offaly squeezed out, with Cork unlikely to put their put their backslapping neighbours to the sword in the final round.
Only two Eoin Kelly points from play. Again he fails to fill his boots against Offaly. Would the same hurling sages who question DJ Carey's legacy because of how he has performed against certain counties, point out that Eoin Kelly has never had a decent scoring performance against Offaly from open play? :D
While Offaly missed a great chance of a quarter-final place, the outlook is a lot better than in previous years. The kind of heart and spirit shown by the team today was refreshing to watch. I hope the days of tame surrender are over. Cork will test their resolve next weekend and hopefully Offaly don't let them run away with it.
While John McIntyre has been much (rightly or wrongly) criticised, his policy of looking towards fearless young tyros at the expense of jaded and demoralised older players has paid dividends. Players like Ryan, Hernon, Horan, Molloy, Verney and Kenny mightn't have been flagged to the same degree as Bergin and Cleary as promising young ones, however, the fire and battling qualities they have brought are the shot in the arm Offaly has needed.
A little more height in the half forwards and craft in front of goal are what Offaly lack now. There is something solid to build on for next year. Better form from Joe Bergin, Rory Hanniffy and the return of Dylan Hayden would see the Offaly forward line improve.
There is the spine of a team there and the young players will gain more experience. I hope Division 2 next year doesn't damage Offaly too much though.
you seem a bit bitter bord na mona man not tipps fault that offaly fouled so much in the second half or hit so many wides. best of luck in the christy ring cup next season.
just caught the highlights on the Sunday Game last night and read the reports in the papers. Sounds like Tipp were pretty awful alright, and their 'winning' goal looked a mite calamitous from an Offaly perspective. Tipp are bound to be tired alright, but they aren't really all that good to begin with. I can't wait to see them in action against Dublin next weekend, in their fifth game in as many weeks.
What planet is Babs on? His interviews are nothing short of comical, and the one last night where he had all the kids lined up around him like he was the pied piper himself, had me rolling around the place laughing. Who are the 'smart arses that have been texting him' though, one wonders. HOH, was it you?
i have no time for babs- it would make my day next saturday if the unthinkable happened. He's lived in dublin for 20 years berated dublin hurling from ahigh and the only time he managed a clubteam was to manage the UCD mercenaries which i believe says everyting about him. A complete ****** of the highest order. An outdated manager who if tipp have any ambitions in the years ahead should eject with immediate effect because he's past it.
The burning issue here is not Will Tipp beat Dublin next week, but how much weight will Daragh Egan and Danny O'Hanlon have put on come the next few weeks! I reckon Enfer are getting a great sponsorship deal will the current Tipp side!! If they keep eating the way they are it will be like one big Enfer Blip in Croker should Tipp get that far.
your right about babs he should be in the circus, ye all seem to be down on this tipp team i personally think they are a great bunch of lads and even with babs as manager they still go out there and give it their all. maybe they wont win any all ireland this year but so far they have given great entertainment in all 4 matches to date. next saturday will be a close one and then cork in thurles hopefully to decide top spot. might not be great fun for those who do not look through the blue and gold spectacles but for us that do, we are having a ball.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 02, 2007, 01:31:47 PM
i have no time for babs- it would make my day next saturday if the unthinkable happened. He's lived in dublin for 20 years berated dublin hurling from ahigh and the only time he managed a clubteam was to manage the UCD mercenaries which i believe says everyting about him. A complete ****** of the highest order. An outdated manager who if tipp have any ambitions in the years ahead should eject with immediate effect because he's past it.
Know him well do you ? All these personal attacks on Babs are out of order,by all means criticise his methods and decisions but keep the personal rubbish out of it.
That's exactly how i would describe him- sorry if it offends you- i have had the misfortune to encounter him.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 02, 2007, 02:14:30 PM
That's exactly how i would describe him- sorry if it offends you- i have had the misfortune to encounter him.
[/quote
I assume you had the balls to call him names to his face when you "encountered" him or are you just another keyboard warrior ?
I would wager i've "encountered" the man on far more occasions than your good self and i can vouch for the fact that the man is a gent.
I would beg to differ quite categorically in fact - i found him extremely condescending and quite arrogant-in keeping with tipperary hurling in general- apologies if that offends you but that's my opinion.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 02, 2007, 02:35:12 PM
I would beg to differ quite categorically in fact - i found him extremely condescending and quite arrogant-in keeping with tipperary hurling in general- apologies if that offends you but that's my opinion.
An opinion you expressed to his face ?
Well done on the Tipperary hurling-arrogant thing,no hoary old cliches there then.
QuoteCork unlikely to put their put their backslapping neighbours to the sword in the final round.
Don't hold back now BnMM! :P
can i ask indiana what county are you from, and your antipathy to tipp is this a recent thing or were you born with it
Tipp have a good Camogie team this year (every year to be honest) they produce nice women down those parts!! Can't see why anyone would have anything against a county like that!
wexford girls are not so bad either, better chance of an all ireland than that lot ye sent up to croke park yesterday. lived up to the nickname yellow bellies yesterday
Quote from: the ship on July 02, 2007, 03:24:24 PM
wexford girls are not so bad either, better chance of an all ireland than that lot ye sent up to croke park yesterday. lived up to the nickname yellow bellies yesterday
A punnet of strawberries would have put up more of a challagene!! The Lovely Girls are doing us proud this year, infact I think an All Ireland is a possibility, as for the "Men" the naming of the Nicky Rackard cup could be very apt seeing as it's the most likely silverware we will win in the not to distant future.
iim a long suffering minnow supporter from Dublin so I'm unlikely to be called arrogant as we've been in the Sahara Desert in terms of success in the last 50 years.
I have no time for Babs and you won't find many Dublin hurling fans who are after some of his comments in recent years. I know a lot of Tipp fans think the sun shines out his backside. I''ve found him arrogant and condescending- that's my opinion and that's why it's called a forum.
By and large I've found Tipp fans quite arrogant- i'm not saying all- but 75% at least that i've met. maybe that's my misfortune to run into the wrong ones but i can't get over how obnoxious some of them are when they are clearly miles behind kk and cork and still think they can win an all-ireland this year- a bit like dublin football fans who also live in Alice in Wonderland. Having witnessed some fantastic club gamesdown there through the years i am shocked by how far they have slipped at senior county level.
im a long suffering tipp supporter and have no time for babs either. I find that he is living in a time warp of the sixties and is not in touch with reality which is that tipp are not the force they once were. im sad that the tipp people you have met leave an impression of arrogance most of the hurling people i know would not be like that but maybe some of the reason for that is the attitude of all the other hurling counties who have no time for tipp and love to see us down.