The tie of the round - must be live on rte next Saturday ?
I think this is good draw for Down. Serious challenge and probably underdogs.
Saturday week surely??
Yep. saturday week.
Quote from: bcarrier on June 24, 2007, 06:15:31 PM
The tie of the round ...
Based on ancient history maybe! :P
Reckon we can win this one, if Coyler can instill the right attitude for the Qualifiers and get the lads believing that they can still achieve something. We dont have any injury worries going into it, I would definately have Brian Farrell in from the start this time. The core of this Meath team is its strenght and I think thats where the winning of it is. Should win midfield, and Moyles and Bray providing the hard work with Gerathy and Farrell doing the scoring.
Do you seriously think our team of 5' will compete with a team who are all 6' +. Not a chance. Physically we are weak (probably mentaly too). Lights out
Quote from: Cloc Mor on June 24, 2007, 08:16:48 PM
Do you seriously think our team of 5' will compete with a team who are all 6' +. Not a chance. Physically we are weak (probably mentaly too). Lights out
You do some moaning cloc.
The tie has only been announced and you come out with that. Coulter, Walsh, Murphy, Gordan, Lynch, Scullion, Downey, Kearney to name a few are hardly 5' are they now? 'Lights out'- You are certainly mentally weak !
QuoteYou do some moaning cloc.
The tie has only been announced and you come out with that. Coulter, Walsh, Murphy, Gordan, Lynch, Scullion, Downey, Kearney to name a few are hardly 5' are they now? 'Lights out'- You are certainly mentally weak !
Out of your 9 players mentioned 5 are subs including one has just been brought into the panel. It shows how much you know.
Who are the 5? So Walsh wont play? Murph wont play? Lynch wont play? Scullion wont figure? I think you will find i know alot more that you think coc, sorry i forgot the L! By the way, Scullion left the panel for a few months- he wasn't brought back for nothing either! think about it.
QuoteWho are the 5? So Walsh wont play? Murph wont play? Lynch wont play? Scullion wont figure? I think you will find i know alot more that you think coc, sorry i forgot the L! By the way, Scullion left the panel for a few months- he wasn't brought back for nothing either! think about it.
Only one of these players may start. Dont talk dung. Our team is full of wee men. Interesting in you summary of 6's you never name one of our defenders, including our full back who I always thought should be 6+. And you say I do some moaning - I'm just calling the truth.
QuoteI think you will find i know alot more that you think coc, sorry i forgot the L!
funny
Noel Sexton (Mayobridge) and Damien Campbell (Ballyholland) have been brought in to the Senior setup while Aidan Burns (Castlewellan) has left.
One 6' er replaced by another 5' nothings. When is this f**king shit gonna end. We need big men not crap like this. And whats worse, we are bringing men into the panel who haven't trained/played wiith this group of players before. Will Sexton or Campbell play against Meath? No - well then whats the point in bringing them in? Carr doesn't have faith in any of his other sub defenders and these guys aint gonna change it.
Think positive lads, if you want to bitch then bitch elsewhere. Cloc, give the lads a chance. It is not as easy as you may think.
These lads have sacraficed a good bit since Jan so lets support support them.
if anyone thinks they can do a better job than any of the players or even the managemrnt team then bring your boots to Newry on the 7th.
Support your team, dont fuckin shoot them down.
QuoteThink positive lads, if you want to bitch then bitch elsewhere. Cloc, give the lads a chance. It is not as easy as you may think.
These lads have sacraficed a good bit since Jan so lets support support them.
if anyone thinks they can do a better job than any of the players or even the managemrnt team then bring your boots to Newry on the 7th.
Support your team, dont fuckin shoot them down.
This is a discussion board, and read what I am saying. My post is about the size of the team we have at present, nothing critical about our team. I believe our lack of size will come against us. I'll get back to you next week, if you're still here.
ALL THE TIME
You go back through my posts and you'll find I am not agressive(sic) all the time.
I have made a legitimate point about our LACK OF SIZE V Meath - nothing else
Cloc Mor - the problem isn't height - its the inability of the defence to man-mark - and/or the unwillingness to drop in a sweeper/get the half forwards to defend a la Tyrone. There isn't a decent defender in the team.
PS Murphy isn't 6' yet he played well at midfield against Monaghan.
Question for the Down boys. Who've been the main score-getters for ye so far? (I promise I won't tell Coyler!)
Now that hopefully you have all stopped bitching @ each other, do we have anybody in the Panel that could possible do a good job man marking Gerraghty ????
Had to laugh at permatan Flynn saying that Meath are taking the qualifiers seriously this year as all the lads were at training on the Monday after the Dublin game. I suppose they just picked the team from whoever turned up on the day over the last few years then
This isn't a bad draw for Down when you look at some of the others. It's good to be at home for a start. If Ross can learn form the Monaghan defeat and sort out the defense I think we can give this one a good rattle.
At the last national league we played against Meath in Newcastle, Monk Cole marked Geraghty completely out of the game.
I'd be more worried about Ward and Sheridan to be honest.
Coulter couldn't have a worse man to try and find form against than Fay.
I think it's a shite draw and copious amounts of alcohol will be required to make me half believe we have a half chance.
Geraghty in the league and Geraghty in the championship are two different beasts.
I'm glad we got a good stiff test in the draw. This is much better than winning a game or two against mickey mouse teams and prolonging the inevitable. If we aren't good enough our county season will be over and we can get back to club football. A win against Meath shouldn't be out of the question though, if we can tighten up in defence we are in with a strong shout.
Its time for Down supporters to cheer up a bit .Monaghan put up a fine performance yesterday ( without Finlay) and are probably a much better side than they are getting credit for. With a bit more composure we probably would have beaten them .
Meath on the other hand lost to the most hyped team in Ireland. They have a few decent forwards but do look fragile defensively. Fay is not the player of old. Their record in qualifers aint hectic either and Graham Geraghty is as unlikely to be as up for a saturday evening game in the marshes as he is for a full house in croker. In any case he is also not the player he once was.
The guys Id be worried about are Farrell and Bray ....we struggle against these types and you would really doubt if Sheridan can be as poor again as he was in Dublin games . Its a game we can win though.
"Fay is not the player of old"? Fay is the best full back in the championship so far.
The last time we played Meath , Geraghty was a second half substitution and only coming back from injury no doubt he will cause us a lot more problems this time . In saying that I'm happy enough with the draw . In fairness the two Dublin v Meath games were exciting and passionate but in terms of football neither team are AI material as I think Dublin proved again yesterday . We could of got a couple of handier draws but If we cant beat Meath with a home advantage then we are better off out of it .
Dublin strolled past Offaly at 50% and looked mentally fatigued from the 2 Meath games. Galway could have been beaten by leitrim if leitrim had nailed even one of their goal chances in the 2nd half. And yet people would not look strangely at you at all, if you were to include Galway in your list of contenders for Sam. Tyrone very nearly lost the first day against Fermanagh, and hammered a poor Donegal team the next day and now they are front runners. It seems to me that the logic applied to Dublin based on their performances so far could be applied equally harshly to a few other teams with All-Ireland aspirations.
On what basis has Fay been best full back in championship ?
Moved himself of Brogan and Keaney notched high score from play after that. He has been a great player but not this year IMO.
Coulter is overhyped but should be able to get a few scores of an old fella like that. Hope they are marking one another.
A repeat of the '91 final if memory serve me right... Alot has changed since for both counties but would expect Meath to come through this one - hard to know how good either side actually is but reckon Meath by a point or two
It's a good draw for Down I reckon.
There's plenty of parallels can be drawn between Meath and Down. Both sides have struggled badly with the concept of the backdoor, and neither manager would have the willingness to enter into defensive strategies, either one or one, or using the 'blanket', in order to ensure passage through at all costs. Neither team is that big - even if Meath are a tad bigger in central areas, and neither team is that mobile. As a result, neither is overly physical by modern county standards - and due to this, it could be entertaining throwback of an encounter.
Down haven't yet replaced Greg Blaney, but Meath are catching up in those stakes, as they've been a long time looking for someone to fill Trevor Giles's shoes. It's never a good sign of a county's health when a full-back is playing centre three-quarters. It really isn't.
Personally I don't think there's a whole lot, if anything, between the teams in terms of personnel. I have to say I've been mightily impressed with Stephen Bray, and he would concern me much more than Geraghty. In many ways the veteran reminds me now of Alan Shearer in his last few seasons at Newcastle. Yep, he's committed. Yep, he's powerful. Yep, he's reasonably effective. Yep, he's a good man to have around if a fight breaks out. But, no matter what way you add it up - and the media try their damndest - he's not in the top bracket of forwards anymore. Bray, on the other hand, is one of those intelligent, skilful forwards that Down defenders have struggled so badly with in recent years.
Anthony Moyles is another Meath man who I'd have a whole lot of time for. He's solid in defence and absolutely superb at setting attacks in motion - which he sort of has to be, as Meath really don't have anyone else capable of filling this role.
Those two aside though, I wouldn't be overly concerned. Joe Sheridan has the potential to destroy to a team, but winter football seems to suit him better. Darren Fay is one of my favourite players ever, but these days wouldn't last 10 minutes on Coulter if the Mayobridge man got the supply. Ward and Crawford are tall, but offer little else at midfield.
I know full well that a Meath man could easily offer a similar critique on Down at present. They could have a good look at the likely Down team and see no obvious danger, the currently misfiring Coulter aside. They would no doubt see a Down team that lacks height and lacks power.
But this Down team could be dangerous. It scored 1.13 last day, even though all three full-forwards could have been substituted, so little was their contribution.
And finally, home advantage is going to count for a lot. For a number of Meath players, it'll be their first time in Newry. For a few more, it'll be their first ever Championship outing in the North. For everyone following them, it's the qualifiers, and that inevitably ends in tears. Most of all though, for every Meath man, woman and child, playing or watching, Pairc Esler is going to be a hell of a comedown after back-to-back derbies in front of full houses in Croke Park.
7pm throw in. A little bit of a pain for the Meath supporters, it will be near midnight before they make it home.
Coulter not on song - how could he be - you wont hear a singer if he is drowned out by his own choir. This busibness of Down bunching 2 or 3 players on the edge of the square is a defender's dream. When will we learn simple basic tactics to get the best out of our best player.
And if Kilcoo can canter away with the league in Down how come we cant find a single mountainy defender from there for a panel which is totally at sea ?
Has the match been confirmed as a 7.00 pm throw in on Sat Week ?????
Down and Meath contributors down the years were second to none at selecting which starting XVs they'd like to see. I expect nothing less in this thread!!!
Quote from: 5iveTimes on June 25, 2007, 04:02:28 PM
Quote from: Leo on June 25, 2007, 03:00:12 PM
Coulter not on song - how could he be - you wont hear a singer if he is drowned out by his own choir.
I think Coulter has to be brought out around the half forward line to supply some decent ball into the full forward line.
Anyone any thoughts on a starting XV ?
Somebody has to make a start
1. M McVeigh
2. M Cole
3. B Grant
4. D McCartan
5. R Murtagh
6. D Rooney
7. P Murphy
8. J Lynch
9. D Gordan
10. A Carr
11. B Coulter
12. R Sexton
13. D Hughes
14. P Downey
15. P McComiskey
This is whats in my head @ the moment but come match day i will probably of changed my mind..... We need to remember that for Ross & DJ to build a team it is going to take a year or so, but in defense is where we are in short supply, up front we seem to have an abundance of talent that just need to find a bit of confidence, ( i.e. be able to take shots outside the 21 )
I'm sure the Ballyholland posters will argue my selection about Murph but even though he has played well @ midfield i think he has to be a better option @ wing half back....
If we are to beat Meath we need more out of Benny and defo more aggression and ability to man mark in defence....
QuoteFor a few more, it'll be their first ever Championship outing in the North.
Did Meath not kick the bejaysus out of Antrim in Casement in the qualifiers a year to two ago?
Time for a shake-up
Team for Meath:
McVeigh, Cole, Scullion,Toner; Murtagh, Kearney, Rafferty; Murphy, Gordon; Walsh, Clarke, Coulter; Hughes, McGovern, McCumiskey.
1. Connall
2. Cole
3. Grant
4. McCartan
5. Rooney
6. Murphy
7. Murtagh
8. Lynch
9 Gordan
10. Kearney
11. Coulter
12. Carr
13. Hughes
14. Downey
15. McCuimskey (for sure)
Is Liam Doyle anywhere near fit ? Ambrose ?Rafferty ?
Assuming they are :
1.Mc Veigh
2.Cole
3.Grant
4.Rafferty
5.Rooney
6.Doyle
7.Murtagh
8.Gordon
9.Rodgers
10.Kearney
11.Carr
12.Sexton
13.Hughes
14.Downey
15.Coulter
Murphy /Mc Comiskey/Walsh all to come on
Mc Cartan/Mc Govern if we're stuck
I think we can beat them-need a passionate support as they will bring a large, mouthy crowd.
5 times,
Worth giving Connall a run out? Agree Mickey is a beter keeper with wealth of experience. But I, personally speaking (before cloc mhor jumps in with his fine words of wisdon ::)) would like to have connall going into the 1st round next year not being a newbie to championship football.
Danny has blown hot & cold this year as have a few others. A descent footballer but the rub of the green just hasnt fallen for him, as with Downey & benney to be fair in recent games. All 3 due a good game & lets remain positive that at least 1 in 3 will come good against meath!!
Murph as a half back would be interesting to see & drop grant into the full back line, last day out the defence just didnt gel,
We are on a team building exercise here so lets experiment & look forward to 3 or 4 years down the line.
caitlin,
unfortunatly the 3 some you mention will not be fit.
I think we would have done well enough in this years championship had they benn in better shape,
Id like to see scullion get a run out from the subs bench on sunday, another man we missed this year!
Think its time to through McComiskey on. Might be our last chance in the championship this year so f**k it.
Would be good to see how he goes from the start, plus I'm sick of all this talk about Hanratty lately being the great young hope!!
Where was he yesterday? Still in Newry?
5 times, yeah its looking like it. Would love to see doyler back in action tho.
Agree not a challenge, experience will come in NFL 08 & you make your own luck at tiimes so you could be right, time for a few changes.
Down were supposed to play Antrim in Newry on sunday but Antrim never showed up.
What the dickens?
From hoganstand.com.
Meath suffer Sheridan blow
27 June 2007
Speculation is growing in Meath that forward Joe Sheridan has pulled out of Colm Coyle's panel in the wake of last week's Leinster SFC defeat to Dublin.
Sheridan, who played for Seneschalstown in a club championship meeting with Trim at the weekend, is reported to have withdrawn from the Meath squad for personal reasons.
The full forward endured a difficult time against Dublin in last week's Leinster quarter-final replay defeat, when he was substituted before half-time having struggled to make an impact.
However, he remained a key part of the panel and rumours of his withdrawal will come as a massive shock to Meath supporters, particularly with an All-Ireland qualifier clash with Down just ten days away.
Most players feel humiliated if they are taken off before half-time. I thought it was quite harsh on Joe, but I suppose Farrell had to be brought on and so someone had to go. A huge cheer went up for the Meath fans when it was announced Joe was been taken off. Now I presume it was more to do with Farrell coming in than Sheridan going off, but it might have sounded different to Joe.
A pity for Meath if he does leave the panel. Plenty to offer whether from off the bench or starting.
caitlins team has the making of a good one.if yas could get them all fit
QuoteSheridan, who played for Seneschalstown in a club championship meeting with Trim at the weekend, is reported to have withdrawn from the Meath squad for personal reasons.
Apparentley he is disillusioned with the game and his own form and there is no personality clash with Coyle. Pity as he is a talented footballer but he's obviously going through a rough patch at the moment.
Agorm he played against your lads at the weekend? Any word on how his form was?
Bad news about Ambrose, will be a big loss. Jack Lynch just isn't up to the standard.
Quote from: Declan on June 28, 2007, 07:14:42 AM
QuoteSheridan, who played for Seneschalstown in a club championship meeting with Trim at the weekend, is reported to have withdrawn from the Meath squad for personal reasons.
Apparentley he is disillusioned with the game and his own form and there is no personality clash with Coyle. Pity as he is a talented footballer but he's obviously going through a rough patch at the moment.
Agorm he played against your lads at the weekend? Any word on how his form was?
I missed the game as I had to go away with work. I heard that he was subdued especially in the second half when Trim were making a comeback. As far as I know he was a wing forward and Paul Gilsenan was marking him. Paul would be better known as a forward.
Disappointed to hear about Joe, the cheering would have been associated with Farrell coming on though people are frustrated with Joe because of what people feel he is capable of. I dont think he would have started against Down but is certainly someone that we would want to develop. Perhaps he needs a break from the scene. There was an interview with him in the Sunday Times before the season started and it is obvious that he is hugely dedicated to the game. However he did come acorss as quite sensitive to criticism from the media and public and he might just not be able to handle the pressure. Let's hope this is resolved in the best way for the lad himself.
I think Joe should take a break if he feels that way, find the hunger again and then get someone to give him a serious training programme. People who aren't naturally fast can be made faster with proper guidance. Lack of speed is his achilles heel otherwise he has all the attributes to be a top, top footballer. You can get away with being small in the modern game, you can't get away with being slow.
QuotePeople who aren't naturally fast can be made faster with proper guidance
You can improve a persons running technique but you'll only make them marginally faster. You'll never turn a slowcoach into Carl Lewis.
Quoteyou can't get away with being slow.
Plenty of players around with very little pace. You can play at the top level without it but you have to make up for it in other areas such as being more skillful, reading the game better, etc.
Name some of these slow players for me.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 28, 2007, 07:30:23 PM
Name some of these slow players for me.
From Galway alone from the past few years I can think of Ja Fallon, Kevin Walsh, Tomas Mannion, Gary Fahy, etc, etc.
None of them blessed with much pace. All top class intercounty footballers.
There are countless slow players in the game, Enda Muldoon would be another that has reached the top level without much pace about him
Rory Woods was brilliant last week for Monaghan and he's not exactly lightening
Honestly lads, let's get a grip on reality here. At every level of sport, some people are going to be quicker than others, and somebody has to be the slowest. And to reach the highest standard in any sport, you need have a basic level of pace otherwise you've no chance of succeeding. True, the likes of Fahy, Bellew, Muldoon or Walsh wouldn't ever beat Cooper over 10 metres, over Donnellan over 40 metres, but they are still quick fellas - a damn sight quicker than lads of a similar build at club level.
I've rarely seen any of those people being beaten to a ball where they had a head start on their marker. THAT is what I mean by slow. And unfortunately that is what happens big Joe quite a bit.
this is a game down can definately win. newry should be packed again. i would expect at least a couple of changes in defence, scullion for mcguigan and if dee raf is fit he must start. midfield should stay the same. would like to see kearney start ahead of mcgovern. as i say a very winnable game, but they would need to be in top form if they are to progress.
Will not be surprised if the Meath support outnumbers Down, in what i expect to be a poorly attended fixture. Apart from the die-hard support, the rest of the county appear to have given up on this team, at least thats the impression i am getting from talking to people who normally would be interested.
aye and those same people-if down win- will be back on the bandwagon again!!! those aren't real supporters.
Pangurban, I would not like to predict the outcome of the game but I would still guess that there will be more supporters from Down than Meath on the night. Although the qualifiers traditionally attract much smaller crowds than championship matches, I also suspect there will be a decent turn-out in Newry. Meath have just played in front of two packed houses at Croke Park when they provided between a quarter and a third of the fans - somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 people. Down's last two USC games at the Marshes had gates of around 15,000, meaning that we had somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 supporters present. It is not very far from Meath to Newry, but it seems reasonably likely that the stay-at-home factor will have a bigger impact on the visiting followers. The Meath fans are certainly not writing off their chances on this basis, and I don't think we should either.
Very winable - as you say - if we play as a unit. Benny will be a marked man yet again. Is paul Murph fit or injured at the minute does any one know??
scullion expected to start, as will stephen kearney. mcguigan will move to left half back. murphy hasnt trained all week with calf problem, and danny hughes is out after breaking two bones in his hand at weekend practice match
Well Geraghty is off the panel :o so that should help yee on saturday... bust up in training :-\
What? Is that certain? It's a bit of the old Tom Jones, really, in GG's case. He'll be back again. But losing Geraghty and Sheridan, even if only temporarily, seems a bit careless on the part of the management.
(It's not unusual).
Geraghty in serious bust-up at training
By Colm Keys
Monday July 02 2007
GRAHAM GERAGHTY'S inter-county career is hanging in the balance again after a serious training ground bust-up over the weekend.
Geraghty is not expected to be part of the M**th squad for next Saturday's All-Ireland football qualifier against Down in Newry as a result of the incident.
He is understood to have reacted angrily to a tackle from a 19-year-old squad member and lashed out repeatedly near the end of an internal practice match in Navan on Saturday morning.
The serious nature of the incident shocked colleagues and onlookers at the practice session in Simonstown as Geraghty had to be restrained by a team-mate.
The session broke up immediately and M**th manager Colm Coyle gathered his players together in an attempt to cool things down. But Geraghty left the pitch seething and is not expected to return.
The incident could potentially bring down the curtain on his inter-county career.
The latest outburst will inevitably draw parallels with the stand-off he had with last year's manager Eamonn Barry he took exception to remarks Geraghty had made during a challenge match with Antrim to M**th referee Jim Smith.
Geraghty refused to apologise to Smith and was off the squad for up to six weeks but agreement was reached to bring him back.
He has courted much controversy over the last 12 months from the incidents with the Australians during last year's International Rules series to his sending off against Louth in the O'Byrne Cup earlier this year.
He was one of M**th's stars in the two matches against Dublin but faced calls for possible suspension over two incidents involving Dublin defender David Henry.
His departure from the squad on Saturday leaves another void in the M**th attack after Joe Sheridan withdrew from the squad last week.
- Colm Keys
Lads, does anyone have any inside info on what actually happened? It's not like you can trust the Indo to give you the real picture on something like this.
Good news for Down!
Well what Keys has written is pretty spot on. Geraghty lost the plot during a training game. The young lad was marking him hard through out and Geraghty didnt like it. They exchanged a few elbows etc but then Geraghty just lost it and went for him, fist boots and all. A few lads went in to break it up and he was fuming. Coyle asked him to apologise and get on with it but he refused saying that Coyle wanted him off the panel and basically f**ked off.
Don't be surprised if this is all sorted out by the weekend but if not Down will face a tough task with or without GG . Good to here Skullion is back and that Kearney is getting his chance , he has impressed coming off the bench . So the big question is who is going to play where . Giving GY's team news I'll go for the following ...
McVegh
Cole Skullion McCartan
Murtagh Rooney McGuigan
Lynch Gordan
Kearney Carr Sexton
Walsh Coulter McComiskey
Brerndan Grant not make it for you redandblack?
We have to try and change it at the back and Grant has done a job for us in the past and I'm sure he will do again but they are just the six I went for this time . He'll probably be man of the match at full back on Saturday (hope he is ).
Sounds as if there is no way that GG will be back. Though Boylan was on TV3 this morning saying that what he had heard about it was not as bad as was reported. I hate to say it but I nearly believe Colm Keys in the paper more. Boylan must be one of the worst GAA analysts that I have heard - he brings sitting on the fence to a new level. Maybe TV3's general sporting incompetence has rubbed off on him.
If it is as bad as some of the reports suggest then Geraghty should be left off, apology or no apology. Pity because he has been one of our best players in a golden era for Meath football.
forgot to add; downey out, walsh at 14 and benny in half forward line, probably on wing.
Paki gets a rough time on the board, he's still only 19 lads!
My Down 15 for Saturday:
1. M.McVeigh
2. D.McCartan
3. P.Murphy
4. B.Grant
5. R.Murtagh
6. D.Rooney
7. K.McGuigan
8. D.Gordan
9. J.Lynch
10. R.Sexton
11. B.Coulter
12. S.Kearney
13. P.McComiskey
14. M.Walsh
15. J.Clarke
Murphy is a strong presence at full back and he has the fitness and the guile to motor on for the 70 minutes. Grant is a good reader of the game while McCartan is an excellent man marker despite what half the county say. Rooney will be more suited out the field while Murtagh and McGuigan can launch attacks at will from the wings. Id expect Dan Gordan to be the main ball winner in midfield while Lynch may suprise some people with his ability around the middle sector and his forages forward. In the half forward line Sexton will work overtime but he needs to win more break ball. Coulter should keep Anthony Moyles busy and whenever he feels like it he should switch to and fro with Walsh. Kearney is a good man to have on the ball. He is rarely dispossessed and his long range point taking is quite good. In the full forward line I would like to see Clarke and McComiskey showing a lot. Both are well capable of hitting at least three scores each a game. I wouldnt use Walsh as a target man as Fay is good in those situations but I would like to see him come out and be the linkman when Down are attacking.
Sorry 5times, I meant 70 minutes. I was getting confused with club football.
I cant see him starting with a full forward line of McComiskey, Walsh and Clarke. There is no real presence amongst any of them.
I wouldnt mind giving Downey another try at full forward. He would hopefully keep Fay busy, and leave some space for the corner forwards. Hughes although largely ineffective this year will be missed. I dont think John Clarke is the man to fill in for him. Dont be surprised if Mcgovern is switched to the corner. Ross definately likes him and five points the last day should be enough for him to get the nod. Never thought I would say this but unless D Rafferty is fit we need Dan Mccartan for his commitment and tight marking although woo betide if there is a fifty fifty race between him and his marker. Aidain Carr is a must for his dead ball kicking, plus I think he his growing into the role with each game. My 15 would be without rafferty.
1. Mcveigh
2. Cole
3. Scullion
4. McCartan
5. Murtagh
6. Rooney
7. Murphy
8. Lynch
9. Gordon
10. Walsh
11. Carr
12. Sexton
13. Mcgovern
14. Downey
15. Coulter.
We then will have McComiskey and Kearney to come on and change it a bit if things arent working uptop.
If that forward line clicked we would be fine but its all on the day, need Benny to give a big performance.
Also would like to see Colgan as one of the back six for next year?
Is Dee Rafferty even close to getting back ? I have heard Ross talking about Abrose and Liam Doyle but nothing about Rafferty.
Well the events of the last week have put a different complexion on things and suddenly we find ourselves with limited options in the forwards, having only recently been struggling to decide who to leave out.
Here's my shot at a team selection, with an eye to minimum disruption while accepting that the upheaval forces some changes. So if we have to be somewhat adventurous, let's do it in the half forward line, where we have problems to solve anyway. Also, I think it's time to try an alternative to Crawford, if only to give him an incentive to shake himself up. I'm not sure how Charles's form is, but I'd give him his chance.
Murphy
Harrington or MacGabhann or McLoughlin
Fay
McKeigue
Kenny
Moyles
King
M. Ward
McCarthy
Reilly (3rd midfielder)
Shane O'Rourke
Byrne
Bray
Farrell
C. Ward
I think most Down supporters wanted Scullion to mark Geraghty, who now looks an almost certain absentee. There is still a case for playing Scullion, but, with Sheridan also out, we will probably have to deal with a faster, lighter forward line than you would usually expect from Meath. Scullion is probably still the best bet at full back, with McVeigh in goal, and Cole and McCartan are natural man markers in the corner.
It would be great to see Rafferty back in the half back line, but he is more likely to come off the bench. Rooney at centre half with Murtagh and Clarke on either side might do the job. It has to be Gordon and Murphy in the middle, with Kearney and Sexton dropping deep to cover.
Carr is a certainty in the half forward line, and, if Hughes is really out, McGovern or Walsh could join him. McGovern is a hard worker, but made unforced errors which cost us 1-1 in the first half against Monaghan, while Walsh still has doubts about his match fitness. One alternative would be to take a chance on Rafferty or McGuigan at wing half back and push Clarke up as a ball winning half forward.
Downey has not done badly overall, but, apart from his goal, he struggled against Meath and is more of a prospect for next year. It is possible that Ross will name one team and field another, but it should be Coulter and McComiskey as a two-man full forward line.
The upheaval in the Meath camp could bond their team together, and it looks like a very tight game. In some ways, it's a pity it's not in Navan, where Down teams at all levels have a great record and all the pressure would be on Meath. However, home advantage should not do us any harm either.
Down manager Ross Carr has watched his side compile a formidable total of 4-38 in their three matches in the Bank of Ireland Ulster Senior Football Championship to date - and yet they have only one victory to show for their endeavours.
In drawing with Cavan in their opening encounter, Down totted up an impressive 3-8 to their opponents 2-11 before going on to win the replay by 0-15 to 0-11.
Then in the first round proper, Down managed to put a healthy 1-15 on the scoreboard but this was bettered by Monaghan's 2-15, a Ciaran Hanratty's two-goal blitz inflicting most damage from a Down perspective.
It's little wonder, then, that Carr and his assistant D J Kane are apprehensive as they plan their strategy for next Saturday's crucial All Ireland Qualifier against Meath at Newry (7.00pm).
" We have been playing some decent football so far but I suppose you would have to say we have conceded rather too much. Meath are a team for whom I have admiration - what you see is what you get and the fact that they played with such character in their two games against Dublin in the Leinster championship will have given them great encouragement," said Carr.
Defensive vigilance will be a priority for his team, he agrees, and in this respect Down will require huge performances from players like Brendan Grant, John Clarke and the impressive Ronan Murtagh.
Meath, still coming to terms with the defection of Joe Sheridan from their squad and the most recent controversy involving Graham Geraghty, will nonetheless carry a potent threat particularly as Stephen Bray, Anthony Moyles and Brian Farrell are in superb form.
"Meath are very solid, very resilient. They come at you and their main ploy, we feel, will be to get the ball in quickly to their attack so our defence will need to be on their toes," added Down boss Carr.
This will be Down's third major championship game at the superbly refurbished Pairc Esler and Carr is hoping that his side can make it into the next round of the qualifiers, perhaps securing yet another home tie.
"A colossal amount of effort has been put into upgrading the Newry ground and obviously we would love to provide a menu of top class fixtures," said Carr.
Last year Down made an ignominious exit from the qualifiers when they were humbled by Sligo scoring only four points in the process in one of the county's poorest performances for many years - which ultimately led to the departure of manager Paddy O'Rourke.
Down lads, any pointers on getting to Pairc Esler - directions, best approach route, where best to park for a quick exit?
Hardy , I would park in Sainsburys . About 20 mins from ground but you will avoid a lot of traffic on the way home .
There's only one approach route really Hardy. The field is on the Warrenpoint Road so all traffic will be heading that direction from the town centre. Southern traffic cant approach it any other way cos they havent built the bridge at Narrow Water yet ;). My advice to you would be to park the car in the vicinity of the Quays or Buttercrane Shopping Centre with the nose pointed at the border and take a liesurely stroll to the ground...about 15 mins walking distance.
Quote from: Hardy on July 04, 2007, 10:18:17 AM
where best to park for a quick exit?
at the house...there is no such thing in newry
Thanks lads.
Ambrose is definitely on the squad for Sunday and was training with the squad last night. Should be introduced at some stage and would be a major boost.
When can we expect starting line up to be announced???
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/6240644.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/6240644.stm)
Down v Meath
Graham Geraghty
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42460000/jpg/_42460954_geraghtymeath203.jpg)Graham Geraghty lashed out at a teammate in training
Date: Saturday, 7 July
Venue: Pairc Esler, Newry
Throw-in: 1900 BST
Drumgath captain Jackie Lynch has won a place in Down's midfield for their first round qualifier against Meath.
Lynch takes the place of Paul Murphy in the only change to the Down line-up from the defeat by Monaghan.
Graham Geraghty has been dropped by Meath after a training bust-up with teenage panellist Stephen Sheppard.
Meath will also be without Joe Sheridan who quit after being sustituted before half-time in the Leinster quarter-final replay defeat by Dublin.
Coyle added that the decision to remove Geraghty from the panel had been taken by players and management.
Each team member signed a code of conduct before this season and Geraghty's training ground indiscretion was a serious breach of those rules.
The 34-year-old's intercounty career could now be at an end.
The forward has been involved in a number of controversies during his career.
In 1999, he became embroiled in a row after being accused of making a racist remark at an Aboriginal player during Ireland's International Rules tour of Australia.
Four years later, Geraghty received a 12-month ban for alleged verbal and physical abuse of a referee while the player was also dropped from the Meath panel for a time last year by then manager Eamonn Barry.
Geraghty stood as a candidate for Fine Gael during the recent Irish Election but he failed to win a seat in the Dail.
Down: M McVeigh; J Clarke, D Rooney, K McGuigan; R Murtagh, B Grant, M Coe; D Gordon, J Lynch; J McGovern, A Carr, R Sexton; D Hughes, P Downey, B Coulter.
Only one change and Jack Lynch starting? That's Meath through then
Least Charlie Stubbs will be happy Jack Lynch getting his place
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:7RXkf92bMXjmiM:blog.mytechaid.com/wp-content/aux-content/salt.jpg)
official starting 15, its a bit messy but you know what i mean
1.
Mickey McVeigh
( Castlewellan)
2. 3. 4.
John Clarke Declan Rooney Kevin McGuigan
(An Riocht) (Burren) (Shamrocks)
5. 6. 7.
Ronan Murtagh Brendan Grant Martin Cole
(Ballyholland) (Mayobridge) (Rostrevor)
8. 9.
Dan Gordon Jackie Lynch
(Loughinisland) (Drumgath)
10. 11. 12.
James McGovern Aidan Carr Ronan Sexton
(Burren) Clonduff) (Mayobridge)
13. 14. 15.
Daniel Hughes Packie Downey Benny Coulter
(Saval) (Drumgath) (Mayobridge)
Most people will take a lot of convincing that this is the team which will actually start the game. If Lynch really does replace Murphy, with the rest unchanged, it will be a weaker side than the one which was not quite good enough against Monaghan. Ross and DJ are well capable of producing a line-up which will compete with Meath, but this is hardly it.
I would be very surprised if Murphy did not start, I thought he was excellent in the Moaghan game.
There is no way that team will start, Goldenyears is usually never too far off the mark.
5 Sams, is Murphy injured?
There's actually no changes lads. That's the same team he named vs Monaghan, except Murph eventually started and there were a couple of positional switches too.
It produces a question for me about Ross Carr. Is he:
a) too lazy to write out the proper team and send it in?, or
b) living in a fantasy world where he thinks keeping the opposition (plus your own supporters) in the dark makes a difference? or
c) completely unsure at this stage what team he is going to pick?
Murph has an leg strain and is doubtful. Danny Hughes had a f**k off big cast on his hand on Sunday.
Don't know what the craic is with Down managers and this nonsense . POR was the same with team sheets . After all the talk of how bad the defence was the last day there is no way Ross will start the same 6 again . Not really worried about the forwards , if Danny is out we have cover .
Carr is convinced that Sheridan and Geraghty will line out Saturday evening and he has a sneaking suspicion that Tommy Dowd will have the gear on under the tracksuit too.
Wait'll he sees a fella called O'Rourke at No. 11.
GOOD STUFF LADS, HERE WE GO AGAIN. TEAM IS ANNOUNCED & NOBDY IS HAPPY, WE ARE OUT ALREADY ACCORDING TO SOME.
JACK LYNCH OBVIOUSLY HAS NO MAJOR FANS ON THIS FORUM, BUT LETS OFFER HIM SUPPORT RATHER THAN SHOOT THE LAD DOWN.
I THINK HE HAS DONE PRETTY WELL IN WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OF HIM THIS YEAR, HAVE YOU FORGOTTON THAT HE HASNT FEATURED MUCH DUE TO THE INJURY HE SUFFERED AGAINS CAVAN, A GAME WHERE I FELT HE WAS GOING PRETTY WELL.
I HOPE HE PLAYS A STORMER ON SUNDAY SHOULD HE START!!!
lisdun , jackise lynch would hope to have a stormer on saturday rather than sunday ;D
If upper case typing is the discussion board equivalent of shouting, what is upper case in red????
Meath team announced as following:
Meath (SFC v Down) – Brendan Murphy, Eoin Harrington, Darren Fay, Niall McKeigue, Seamus Kenny, Anthony Moyles, Caoimhin King, Mark Ward, Nigel Crawford, John Donegan, Kevin Reilly, Peader Byrne, Stephen Bray, Shane O'Rourke, Brian Farrell.
Substitutes – Rickey Nolan, Stephen MacGabhann, Cian Ward, Peter Curran, Charles McCarthy, Cormac McGuinness, Chris O'Connor, Padraig Howard, Stephen Sheppard, John Barry O'Reilly, Michael Burke, David Donegan, Jamie Queeney, Graham Reilly.
A very workmanlike half forward line, relying on the inside forwards to be on form
Our forward line suddenly has a very meagre look about it. Let's hope young O'Rourke lives up to the billing. A four-man midfield is a new departure, unless they're serious about Kevin Reilly as a CHF. It has the look of a ball-winning middle third of the field, though, with Kenny, Donegan and Reilly scrapping for possession.
Donegan is a new one to me... what type of player is he?
Surprised ward is sitting on the bench
He's usually deployed at midfield. I imagine Ward is suffering for his display in the second Dublin match, when he was substituted early. Also, there's a body of opinion that he's not fit enough to play from the start - not sure about that myself. I suppose we can assume that form in training counts too - for those that are still in training, that is.
I was impressed with Donegan when he came on in the first Dublin game. Looked very assured and used whatever possession he got wisely. A lot of size in the team so I think we will have a physical advantage. Good to see young O'Rourke in there. Looking forward to seeing this team in action. At least we won't die wondering as the man says (unless we are wondering what if we had big Joe and GG available!).
Quote from: Jinxy on July 05, 2007, 12:16:57 PM
I was impressed with Donegan when he came on in the first Dublin game. Looked very assured and used whatever possession he got wisely. A lot of size in the team so I think we will have a physical advantage. Good to see young O'Rourke in there. Looking forward to seeing this team in action. At least we won't die wondering as the man says (unless we are wondering what if we had big Joe and GG available!).
Jinxy , Please dont start some of the Down lads off about our team of five footers ;)
I have to say that I dont particularly like the look of that team. Workmanlike is a good description. Perhaps it is horses for courses and the management feel that this is the team that will get us through this game but you would not expect that team do do anything spectacular in the qualifiers.
At the same time he is doing what I have said all along that he should do, he is playing new players perhaps with an eye on next years Leinster championship and also with a good chance of progressing to the next round.
I think this will be a close one, dont rule out extra time.
Watch out for Geraghty or at least his ghost !
Jesus lads, I just cant believe that team. There is no way that some of those guys will start. I reckon Keanreny will be at number 14 since Packie has been giving us nothing. Carr has picked up some of POR's bad habits and naming a team like this is one of them. Hope his results are different though.
Lads regarding Ward, do use not think he is carrying a stone or two too much. No doubting his excellent point taking in the first match against Dublin, which proves he has the quality if he gets fitter. Not overly sure of his age and dont dont want to run any senior level player down but I dont think he is there yet.
Ward was an u-21 player this year.
Down to win
Lots of ball winners, two scoring forwards. It'll take a decent team to beat Meath. I don't think Down are a decent team, but I've seen feck all of them to give a proper opinion.
For a number of years now Down are the only team not named early in the week and very often when the team does appear it bears little resemblance to that issued to the press. But dont knock it, for it obviously gives us a major psychological advanrage as our scintillating results in the last 8 years or so demonstrates. Forget about Danny and his damaged hand, my bet is on a full forward line of Bundy Mason, Willie Walsh and the tooth fairy. In defence we will field the usual ine up of bus conductors and hospitality stewards. We were once the beacon of Ulster - we are a a dark spec in the distance if not a laughing stock today.
I dont really think that anyone believes that the Down forward line will line out as announced tomorrow. My guess is that it will be something like this:
10. Sexton
11. Coulter
12. Carr
13. McComiskey
14. Walsh
15. McGovern
its just my opinion. ;)
It would need to stop lashing or we'll be heading to Ballykinlar to watch the game!
Ronan Murtagh had grown accustomed to parading his finishing skills in the Down attack before he was converted to wing-back.
And on the evidence he has demonstrated to date in the Ulster Championship, his value to the Mourne County rearguard cannot be overstated.
The Ballyholland clubman was one of Down's best players in their two games against Cavan and again led the resistance against Monaghan before his side were forced to surrender in a tense finish.
But Murtagh, in common with the rest of his colleagues, now faces up to a massive challenge when Meath come to Pairc Esler, Newry tomorrow (7.00pm) for an All Ireland Qualifier that has the hallmarks of a titanic struggle.
Back in the 1990s the two counties were no strangers to the ultimate glory, Down winning the All Ireland title in 1991 and 994 and Meath matching their feat in 1996 and 1999.
Yet Graham Geraghy, the player who captained the Royals to glory in '99, will not have a part to play tomorrow and Meath will undoubtedly miss his pugnacious presence.
Not for the first time in his colourful, contentious career Geraghty finds himself persona non grata only this time within the ranks of his own county following a training ground bust-up.
His absence means that Meath will be shorn of a ration of experience and could perhaps open the door for players like Murtagh to blend their defensive skills and attacking flair.
Brendan Grant, Declan Rooney and John Clarke are other Mourne competitors who will require to be in top form if a Meath attack in which Stephen Bray and Brian Farrell will offer a considerable threat is to be subdued.
Meath manager Colm Coyle saw his side come close to easing Dublin out of the Leinster Championship and will obviously have taken heart from their energetic performances both in the drawn game and in the replay.
Darren Fay, Anthony Moyles and Kevin Reilly are still there to shore up the Meath rearguard while Nigel Crawford continues to make his presence felt at midfield where Down pair Jackie Lynch and Dan Gordon face a stiff examination of their credentials.
Down's progress in the Qualifiers ultimately hinges on their impact tomorrow.
Yet if this duo manage to chisel out their share of possession, then Brendan Coulter, Daniel Hughes and Ronan Sexton are well capable of converting this into scores up front.
And with Murtagh keen to figure more prominently as an offensive influence rather than a defensive figure, then Down could derive added impetus going forward.
DOWN (v Meath): M McVeigh; J Clarke, D Rooney, K McGuigan; R Murtagh, B Grant, M Cole; D Gordon, J Lynch; J McGovern, A Carr, R Sexton; D Hughes, P Downey, B Coulter.
See someone on HS has Mickey Mcveigh as out injured , Brendan McVeigh to cover . Anyone else hear this ?
Bernard Connall to start Saturday
Danny Hughes busted his hand
I'm hearing Brendan McVeigh is to start in goals
I have just heard same about Brendan McVeigh.... What happened to the sub keeper Connell injured also ???
you are aware brendan mcv is not a member of panel???? & conall is not injured (Fact)
what a pathetic down performance. There were no positives from this performance. Downs slow ponderous build up play was brutal Meath on the other hand played quick early ball into their forwards which our defence couldn't handle. Best of luck to Meath for the rest of the season. Down supporters can have no complaints.
Well done Meath.
Commiserations to Down.
Geraghty back for the next round?
Let's hope.
Thanks Aidan - commiserations.
Went down to Newry to have a look because I have an awful fondness for the Meath team and have been at a few Down matches this year.
Terrible performance by Down, no other way to put it. The defence is a joke and in the last ten minutes the full back line decided not to jump with the Meath full forwards as they were loosing every one anyway. Positives for Down? Not a lot to be honest. Midfield did ok in the last 20 after Crawford went off, other than that it is hard to find a player who performed well.
Meath on the other hand were excellent and I felt they could have upped their game if needed. The two men to stand out where Peader Byrne and Anthony Moyles. Everything went through Byrne in the first half and the pace he showed for the goal was brilliant. Moyles proved again what a class act he is and 3 points from play ain't bad for someone who lines out at number 6.
The contrasts in the two teams were evident. It is a cliche but Down were a bunch of individuals whilst Meath worked as a unit. The work rate was alot better from the Royals and they communicated well. When Down lost their way no one was barking orders or encouraging, the Down team was very, very quiet. Meath showed again today that the death of the long ball has not arrived just yet and with the forwards on show they could cause damage.
Were Brendan Coulter and Daniel Hughes playing tonight?
Taken from BBC:
Down 0-8 1-10 Meath
Down's Championship campaign ended with a five-point defeat at the hands of Meath in Newry on Saturday night.
The opening score from Benny Coulter proved to be Down's only score from play as they relied on free-taker Aidan Carr for all their other points.
Meath enjoyed a 1-4 to four points lead at the interval with Peadar Byrne finding the net on 12 minutes.
Centre-back Anthony Moyles and forward Stephen Bray scored three points each for the Royal County.
So the end of the road for Down, but a victory for Meath at the end of a troubled week.
With star forward Graham Geraghty axed after a training ground bust-up, Shane O'Rourke came in a full-forward for his Championship debut.
The 19-year-old, son of former Meath star Colm O'Rourke, scored a point in each half and helped set up Byrne's goal.
Down tried to rally towards the end but their forwards were having an off day and chalked up 14 wides on the night.
One point from play, thats the bottom line here lads, Football in Down has hit rock bottom, time for a root and branch review of what is wrong. Although firmly opposed to the idea in the past i now believe its time to bring in some fresh thinking from outside the County. Over the past 5/6 yrs. the standards of both Club and County have been deteriorating with nothing being done to address the problem,and no one emerging within the County who would appear to be capable of addressing it. We must take the blinkers off and be prepared to be realistic about how bad we have become,and measure or standards realistically, not seeing big fish in small pools as stars,eg. there are still people within the County who consider Benny Coulter to be a great player when in truth on his day he is an average Co. Player.
Agree totally with comments in your second paragraph Mid-Louth, we will have to agree to disagree over Coulter, a good player but far from being a great one, there is at least 9/10 better foewards in the Country
Very disappointing stuff.
I think I'm finally moving towards the chain of thought that are players just aren't good enough.
Ross is obviously no tactician, but it's not a manager's fault when his team are incapable of scoring from play. And that was the big problem today. Our much maligned defence didn't do a whole pile wrong (although I can't believe that once again McGuigan was asked to pick up the most dangerous opposing forward - I genuinely feel sorry for the fella) in keeping Meath to 1.10 on a nice day for football.
We utterly dominated possession for the final quarter and yet our end product was zip, zero, nada. There were no overlapping runs, no unselfish runs. There was nobody directing play. There was no rhyme nor reason to our attacks. Not one our forwards looked like he had the better of his man. For the most part, these are individual problems.
The Wobbler your second paragraph is an excellent point.
I disagree with your view of the defence though, how many times did the Down man get out in front or win a high ball? Half a dozen at most the whole match.
I thought the meath fans were excellent tonight bringing a bit of atmosphere to a very dull lifeless game. Judging from that and tv their seems to be a better atmosphere in leinster than ulster would I be right? The Down team had no intensity to their play and never looked like penetrating the Meath defence.
Went to newry full of optmism. Came home frustrated and dissapointed.
POSITIVES
Very few to be honest, but I feel Dan Gordon showed well, and Clarke was probably our most solid defender. Thats all the positives I can think of.
NEGATIVES
The forwards messed about with the ball and were always running into trouble. On the other hand Meath seemed to be a lot more direct and seemed to getting there scores a lot more efficiently.
The defence was utterly woeful. Dodgey under the high ball, alwas behind there men, always prone to loosing possession easily. In the first 20 minutes there was period when our backs were gaining possession, the aimlessly clearing the ball straight to Meath attackers. None of the backs seemed comfortable on the ball, which was evident from the number of times the ball was played back to Brendan McViegh.
1 score from play. Enough said.
The fact that the Meath CHB scored 3 points from play speaks volumes.
Benny Coulter just was not effective. i dont know why he has not preformed well lately but something is obviously not right. Maybe he is a marked man now, who knows.
In general we were not direct enough, couldnt take our chances and never really troubled Meath at all. Fair play to Meath, good luck in the next round.
On another note, tell the County Board to get some decent batteries for the microphone, that poor woman singing the anthom must have been shi**ing herself!
I think the National League has to be taken more seriosuly. This year the management traeted the league in the same way that most managers would treat the McKenna cup. Too much experimenting and switching meant that the team could not settle and the results spoke for themselves. You cannot have a poor league campaign and then think that the team will automatically gel come championship time. The team needs some consistency so that the team can build. Even before todays game people were guessing in the stand what team was actually going to start.
Just back from the game and I haven't been as depressed since...well, this time last year or maybe it was the year before. We all know we are not good enough, and we have not been a serious team since we narrowly lost the 1996 Ulster final to Tyrone, but it is still difficult to come to terms with a performance as drab and spiritless as tonight's.
In fairness to everyone connected with the squad, we were quite promising in the two Cavan games and were only just edged out by a decent Monaghan team, but tonight was a bitter disappointment. In the car on the way home, we tried to work out Down's man of the match. It was a grim task, and John Clarke, who might have been rated at four out of ten, probably got the nod by default.
For what its worth, here's my take on the players. Brendan McVeigh had little chance with the goal, and not much else to do, but, with our midfield struggling badly until the closing stages, he was unable to vary his kick-outs.
It was very strange that Clarke was named at corner back and played at full back when he is either a wing half back or more likely a wing half forward but at least he competed well against young O'Rouke, who was a full head taller than him. O'Rourke still got a couple of points from play, and Clarke should pretty obviously have been moved out the field.
Rooney tries hard but he still has a lot to learn and would also be much better either at centre half or midfield. Scullion looked like a defender who had not played at county level for three or four months, and he should have been replaced long before the end. The experiment of trying Murtagh in the defence started brightly against Cavan but it has been downhill all the way since then and he was a long way off the pace tonight. He lost his man for their goal, got plenty of possesion at other stages and could do nothing with it, and it was verging on the astonishing that he was not substituted. He did make a couple of runs late on when it made little difference.
Cole and Grant were taken off before half-time and can feel hard done by. Both were out of position in the half-back line, but they made nowhere nearly as many mistakes as Scullion and Murtagh.
Gordon had a quiet game against strong opponents, but at least showed a bit of heart towards the end. Lynch gives his all, but is not a county midfielder by any standards.
I think that McGovern is a decent young player who showed his potential for Queen's this season, but in many ways he summed up a lack of decisiveness along the line. He had something of a nightmare against Monaghan and his confidence must have been shattered. Yet he was asked to start again tonight, made every effort but had absolutely no self belief and amazingly, although his head had dropped from an early stage, was still there at the final whistle.
It's hard to be too critical of Carr, who after all kicked seven frees on a night when we only scored eight points in total, and almost got a goal near the end, but he contributed very little from play. I assume he was supposed to be marking Moynes, who repeatedly burst up the field and kicked three points as well as setting up other scores. Carr was also knocked off the ball far too easily, but, like several of the others, he is still relatively young and should be better next year.
Sexton, as he always does, worked tirelessly, but made little impact tonight. The incredible thing was that if his late shot, which shaved the post, had gone in, we would have been just two points behind with about five minutes, including injury time, left.
Walsh never got going and, while he has been unfortunate with injuries, it is difficult to believe how far he has gone backwards since he was a teenager.
Kearney is another player who can feel disapppointed to be replaced. He regularly beat Fay to the ball in the first half, and took a couple of heavy knocks for his trouble, and his pace and strength could have been even more useful out the field.
Leaving Benny to the last of the starting 15, it has to be accepted that switching him to wing half forward, which many Down supporters wanted, made little difference. He got an excellent point early on - which means that we actually went more than 70 minutes without a score from play - but was tightly marked and looked a frustrated player. I'm not convinced that he is as fit as he should be, but he probably should have had a penalty in the second quarter and definitely should have been thrown up front in the closing stages.
Of the subs, Murphy, given that his hand injury must have been a factor, was reasonable. McGuigan unfortunately is not a corner back and it is simply wrong to ask him to play there. Ambrose should have been thrown in around midfield or the half forward line, and he not not a full forward. McComiskey remains an excellent prospect, but this was not his night.
It's hardly a surprise to suggest that we lack natural leaders, but it was very evident again tonight. We started quite well, but their goal caused a familiar collapse.
Fair play to Meath, who in the Dublin games were operating at a higher level of intensity than we have been able to manage, and won tonight without playing particularly well. They are a decent side, and can probably improve as the qualifiers progress.
Fair play also to all the critics of the Down set-up, on this board and elsewhere, who I often disagreed with but who got it right this time round.
We can only look forward to a tough enough division three next February. As of now, I would settle for survival, regrouping and trying to get everyone fit for yet another summer of rebuilding.
Perhaps Marty Clarke will get bored with earning all that money, and emerging as the most talked-about young player in Australian Rules, and arrive back for the Ulster U21 championship in the spring. Otherwise, another long hard season beckons. Funnily enough, I can't wait.
Our defenders should be given a break here lads. Yep, on occasion they didn't compete strongly in the air, and yep on other occasions they were found behind their men. But, it was a forward's day in my mind - being warm and calm - and unlike Meath's defence, they rarely enjoyed the support from their forwards that they should get. Time and time again Down's attackers ran into a green wall, due to the sheer numbers back helping out. Down's defence were continually islated. They were also playing against a team with some semblance of tactics and organisation. To get through all this and concede only 1.10 was, in my mind, impressive. It's not like Meath kicked an abundance of wides.
Our problems were much further up the field today.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on July 08, 2007, 12:23:04 AM
How many wides had we? 17/18? The thing is we were crap and could have won this game.
Just a couple of points regarding Mourne Rovers post. I agree with a lot of it, but to me McGovern is not county standard at all. Aidan Carr, is not a CHF, his man scored 3 points tonight. If he is to play in the half forward line then it should be on the wing.
I think its timw to introduce more of the 2005 minor team, too many of the current set up arent interested. They have had their chance.
Who should be introduced? Surely if any of these lads are good enough they would have had their chance already?
Quote from: Pangurban on July 04, 2007, 10:58:43 PM
After Saturday who is in or not in the Meath panel,will be an irrelavance for the rest of this year
Great to get the chance to throw that one back at Pangurban. Over confidence was not warranted from either side going into this game.
Overall, I was satisfied at the performance though I thought that Down at least held their own in Midfield and probably won the majority of the breaking ball in the first half. I think that Meath were well served in defence by McKeigue, Fay, Moyles and Kenny who tenaciously snuffed out anything the Down forwards could muster. It is a great credit to our defence that Down did not score from play again after the first score of the game from Coulter.
I thought that we were shaky up front early on and needed an excellent Moyles point to settle us down. Peader Byrne was the only forward to come to the mark in the opening quarter and his goal was crucial. He ran on to an excellent quick delivery from O'Rourke to shoot hard and low just inside the goalkeepers right hand post. That settled Meath though Bray and O' Rourke were the only other two forwards to show form. Farrell was subdued.
We have problems at midfield and we still dont know our best half forward line. Donegan was replaced by McLoughlin in the 2nd quarter and saw more of the ball but I am not overly confident in him either. Byrne is definitely worth his place, not so sure about Reilly, Donegan or McLoughlin though they may be the best we've got.
Crawford seems to have lost something, spark, interest, passion - I dont know. The selectors need a serious think. Moyles is our inspirational player at the moment. Should they move him into midfield with perhaps Reilly back CHB? If we get an easy enough draw in the next round perhaps they could try this option.
Overall a great evening. The Newry ground is in super condition, with a great stand, everything weel organised and marshalled. Hopefully Down will come good again soon. The tradition is there. They may need to up the ante at underage level or freshen up the management in order to come again. This sounds as if Meath have achieved something here, in reality we have only gone 1 additional round in the qualifiers. People say that we are a coming team. We are a long way from the finished article and unfortunately may lose one or two key players before the development of the team is complete.
Regarding Graham Geraghty, I would not be so sure that he will be taken back at this stage. The management may judge that his return may disrupt the spirit in the camp. I would hope that he could come back and that it would have a positive effect but if I was a betting man I would say that we wont see hom in a Meath jersey again.
Fair play to you Agorm, i deserved that dig. Although Meath did not play as well as they can, you desrved your win, hope to see youse go a lot further
What you wrote may well be true come the next game.....
Best of luck to Down, the tradition is there. A few good minor teams could turn things around for you.
Its all so sad. Down are just poor no, crap, to be exact. Gaelic football has moved on since the nineties and we have been left behind.
I really feel for Benny. With a better team he would have an Allstar. Sadly though, he will probably have to accept the same fate as Big Ambrose and Liam Austin (ahhh, how could I promote Liam into the same sentence as the Gt Ambrose), i.e beavering away through many lean years surrounded by lesser talent but still providing a role model for new talent. If so I hope he gets his just rewards, just like Ambrose and Liam who persevered and in the end got substitute outings to get the AIF medal they so richly deserved.
I can only hope Benny keeps the faith and continues to help provide a role model for emerging talent that hopefully will replace the crap we are presently stuck with. If not, we would be better lowering our standards (I can't believe I said that, anyone who knows me will know how much this hurts) and aim for that Cup that Antrim are presently interested in.
Thanks agorm for that report from the Meath perspective. I didn't make it to Newry in the end. I'll have to make amends by travelling to Ballybofey or Enniskillen or wherever next weekend!
One question. The commentators on LMFM said Moyles was playing in the half forward line (they specifically said RHF at one stage) and occasionally helping out the defence and that Kevin Reilly was CHB. I took this to mean Moyles was playing as a third midfielder (or fourth, if you count Donegan for his short sojourn). Lads here are saying Moyles scored his 3 points from CHB, but they may be just going by the number on his back. How did it look to you – was he marking Carr or operating as a midfielder and was Reilly CHB?
I'm absolutely against moving Moyles from CHB. He has solved our biggest problem, that has been with us since the departure of Enda McManus. There's no longer a gaping hole in the middle, as there was since 2001. I agree he's the inspirational player in the team and we should build this project around him, but from CHB. Every successful team has a very good half back line and I think we have the makings of it in Kenny, Moyles and King.
It seems the doubts about Crawford are justified. As you mentioned, he looks to me to be missing something, perhaps enthusiasm. Or maybe he's just had his day. I've always been a fan of Charles, despite his many detractors and feel he could be a first rate midfielder if given a decent run and the confidence of the selectors. How did he do when he came on?
Hardy, it was hard to nail down where Moyles was playing. I had him marked down at CHF for most of the first half, with Reilly playing at 6. Reilly was a certainly picking up Carr at kick-outs. He did a bit of a defensive work, but was definitely too advanced too regularly to have a defender's jersey.
In the second half, Moyles was playng more as a sweeper, picking up bits a pieces.
He's a class act by the way. An absolutely top drawer footballer.
Moyles has easily been one of the best performers of the year, he was a class act again last night. Good captain material too, at five points up he was still roaring at any Meath man who made stupid mistakes. He played a roaming game and was up and down the field all night, MOTM followed closely by Byrne who showed a magnificent turn of pace for the goal.
5Times I do not think Meath were there for the taking, they were a bit premature in taking Crawford off as he was holding Midfield together, but after the goal they never looked like loosing the game.
Carr was not really marking Moyles, I forget who was on him most of the night but it was not Carr. Rooney was probably the best Down player for me, he was the only defender that won a few 50/50 balls albeit mostly the first half.
An excellent stadium and a great crowd and super pitch. The Down fans must surely be questioning the passion of the players?
Thanks Wobbler and corn02. Yes, Moyles is the business and just the type of player to build a team around. He has the talent to do well in most positions and has already excelled for Meath at full back, CHB and midfield, while he also has a forward's instinct for playing the right pass or taking a score, as you saw. He has also scored crucial goals for Meath.
He's had a bit of a suspect temperament at times, with a tendency to pick up cards and give away the silly free, but that's been absent from his game this year, so far. It would be encouraging to think that he's recogniused it as a problem and worked to eliminate it from his game. If this team is to go anywhere in the next few years, he'll be the driving force.
5Times you can have Joe Kernan off us, I won't mind. In fact please take him.
Ok off to Clones now, not as confident as most Armagh folk but still expect us to squeeze through. If we do I guarantee we face Meath next.
In response to 5times regarding Benny and the bricklaying couldnt agree more form and more importantly his hunger has appeared to have dipped since
his career change.
Very disheartening last night and really hard to take anything good from it. John Clarke was our best defender, and I also thought midfield done ok especially in the final quarter. Mccomiskey should have replaced McGovern at half time as a couple of early scores where needed and he appears the man most likely in the current set up. Really thought the forwards would do the business and feel very sorry for Michael Walsh appears a million miles away from the player he once was. Ronan Sexton is a dilema in that, if the rest of the team had shown half of his hunger it would have been much closer, however he is unfortunately just too small for this level(a good big un will always beat a good little-an). He must have been giving away 6 inches to his man and like the rest of the Down forward line was far too easily dispossesed.
Ronan Murtagh had a night to forget although I think he will come again. Scullion was a little off the pace but I think he can still do a job at full back for us just needs more confidence and self belief. Great to see Ambrose back although played out of position. Midfield at that stage however didnt need him so cant blame Ross for taking a gamble.
Most disappointing of all for me was the lack of support the team was given by the crowd, far too many smart arse remarks about players who in some cases where giving there all. OK some might not be what we have come to expect from Down County players but they are there and as long as they give there all what more can we ask. This was evident from members of the crowd in the first couple of minutes it wasnt a case of frustration getting the better of them. I think there is wholesale changes needed on the playing field but also in the mind set of the fickle following who turn up for whatever reason, for oner it isnt to lend there support to a team in need of it.
Walsh and Coulter both peaked when they were 17/18.
Whatever about the physical effects of too much football neither look like they have mental strength/savvy at senior intercounty level.
Benny plays an occasional cameo role but has never delivered on his promise. Probably been at the wrong club for that. Downs worst spell for 50 years has been matched by Mayobridge dominance at club level within the county ( and abject failure in Ulster Club).
Haha, that last comment is sure to get a keen response bcarrier!
I'm not blaming the management for yesterday's debacle, but in all seriousness, we are stuck with the players we have. And as we don't appear to have the players to threaten anyone seriously, we really do need someone in charge who is going to organise us from the back up. Based on evidence so far, that wouldn't appear to be Ross and DJ's way of doing things.
Also, with regards to player/squad selection, they would appear to be a step backwards on Paddy O'Rourke. Too many square pegs in round holes yesterday. I know there mightn't be a lot of round pegs for certain positions in Down football, but are at least some with curvier edges.
wobller - I don't see how you blame our underage systems. There are literally dozens of players young enough to play for Down walking around with All-Ireland minor medals, Hogan Cup medals or Sigerson medals in their pockets. Why they're not making the step up is the big issue.
As a neutral who attended last night's game....just a few very quick points:
Worst Down performance I have ever witnessed, simply attrocious.
Meath were also extremely poor, if they had met anyone else bar Leitrim, they could easily have been stuffed. Colm O'Rourke had a poor game. His positional sense, particularly in the first half was very poor, it almost looked like he was going out of his way to get a position where he would never receive a pass.
Darren Faye still the best player on the field.
Down can't blame Paddy O'Rourke on this one, simply awful.
If the current Down Players are not up to the task who should be introduced to the panel or is it a case of they are the best we have.
Quote from: balladmaker on July 08, 2007, 02:29:24 PM
As a neutral who attended last night's game....just a few very quick points:
Worst Down performance I have ever witnessed, simply attrocious.
Meath were also extremely poor, if they had met anyone else bar Leitrim, they could easily have been stuffed. Colm O'Rourke had a poor game. His positional sense, particularly in the first half was very poor, it almost looked like he was going out of his way to get a position where he would never receive a pass.
Darren Faye still the best player on the field.
Down can't blame Paddy O'Rourke on this one, simply awful.
Kinda hard to take the rest of your report seriously after reading that.
UPDOWN.........Sadly, apart from a few who are out injured, they are the best we have. On a slightly different point, whats the point in having a second goalkeeper [Connell] on your squad, if you bypass him and call another 'keeper into your team to play ahead of him in a match ?. Must be very demoralising for him.
Quote from: Hardy on July 08, 2007, 12:00:48 PM
Thanks agorm for that report from the Meath perspective. I didn't make it to Newry in the end. I'll have to make amends by travelling to Ballybofey or Enniskillen or wherever next weekend!
One question. The commentators on LMFM said Moyles was playing in the half forward line (they specifically said RHF at one stage) and occasionally helping out the defence and that Kevin Reilly was CHB. I took this to mean Moyles was playing as a third midfielder (or fourth, if you count Donegan for his short sojourn). Lads here are saying Moyles scored his 3 points from CHB, but they may be just going by the number on his back. How did it look to you – was he marking Carr or operating as a midfielder and was Reilly CHB?
I'm absolutely against moving Moyles from CHB. He has solved our biggest problem, that has been with us since the departure of Enda McManus. There's no longer a gaping hole in the middle, as there was since 2001. I agree he's the inspirational player in the team and we should build this project around him, but from CHB. Every successful team has a very good half back line and I think we have the makings of it in Kenny, Moyles and King.
It seems the doubts about Crawford are justified. As you mentioned, he looks to me to be missing something, perhaps enthusiasm. Or maybe he's just had his day. I've always been a fan of Charles, despite his many detractors and feel he could be a first rate midfielder if given a decent run and the confidence of the selectors. How did he do when he came on?
Hi Hardy, you must be happy that we have a home tie next round and the chance to get 1 back on Fermanagh!
Moyles was drawn outfield early on by his opposite number (Carr I think) who played very deep. I think that he did swap for a while with Reilly. You are probably right about keeping Moyles at CHB where he has solved a major problem for us. The problem is that we are struggling at midfield. I dont know much about this years Fermanagh team but I am sure they will be no pushover. I would expect that the team will be kept generally the same with perhaps McLoughlin starting in place of Donegan.
I think a realistic look at this shows we are in the 'tommy murphy' bracket at the moment and have been for the past 4 years - albeit to blind to see it!
Nothing last night was enough to convince of anything different. Calls were made to reinstate Scullion all year - well he got his chance last night and agian showed how inept he is - one such note was the easy ball he had to catch in the first half - oh no he fisted it (with both fists) straight to his marker who simply stroked it over the bar. Murtagh isnt up to it either, Rooney is no leader and always has to shoot - badly! Sexton is too small, walsh is finished, jack lynch - where do you start with that one? McGovern another bad display and very over-rated.
The terrible thing is we will all sit back and watch Benny, Sexton(s), Walsh, grant etc stroll their way to another SFC in Down as there is nothing else available to challenge them.
At the meeting of club officials and Ross & co in the Burrendale Hotel back in January - Ross stated last year Paddy had the best panel availabe to him picked last year and it was dismal then - well this is just as bad if not worse and Down should act now.
Sure Big Joe will be free now!!!!!!!!!!!
We can talk all we like about individual players not being good enough, but even the best players would struggle to shine under the system we play. We who once led in terms of innovation or nows years behind the times. We have to live with the players available for the moment, but we change our system, improve our coaching, develop a more professional organisation[on that note the Co.Board office is a model of ineptitude and inefficiency], provide fresh vision and drive and to do that we need to bring in the best people available.
After that fiasco does anyone else think that Paddy O'Rourke got a raw deal???? I'm starting to think we are all wrong!!
Fundamental problem...I think we have 40 odd clubs in Down . Counting subs close to 850 seniors footballers paly football in Down each weekend...we havent had 15 to put up a challenge in the past 4 years.
We havent got the stuff lads plain and simple...its not Ross or DJs fault either...our senior footballers are simply not good enough....minors and under 21s my hole....the nucleus of our team is the 99 minor team and apart from the odd freak result against Tyrone in the Ulster Final a locka years ago and a very poor Cavan team this year we have achieved f**k all.
It would make you fuckin sick watchin that shite....
BTW good luck to Meath...I had good crack with a locka of the Royals in the Canal Court before and after the game. Thon Anthony Moyles has won an Allstar already in my opinion.
Agorm – I suppose Fermanagh at home has to be seen as a good draw, but I didn't want to draw them at all. We thought the same the last two times we drew them and it ended in tears. It would be great to break the Fermanagh hoodoo (imagine if you'd suggested to anyone in, say 1999, that someday soon Meath would have a Fermanagh hoodoo!), but I have a bad feeling about it. I'd much rather have had Mayo or nearly anyone else in Navan. But if our team is going anywhere, we have to win this one and if we don't, we'll know something.
I hope to be there this time, anyway. Or maybe I should stay away. Maybe I'm the hoodoo.
In Response to the Spirit of 91 94 comments on Scullion with that ball in the first half, you mustnt have looked back into the sun which would have took the eyes out of anyones head. Not making too many excuses for him but unless he was wearing Mr Ban's latest unheard of glasses he had no option but to punch on that one.
You could prbably have wanted Down to win?
Why the bitterness my friend. If it was not for the fact I love the Meath team I would not have been too dissapointed if you had won last night.
I would still rather have this Armagh team than the Down team, the gulf in class still exists at present.
Lets forget the past, If you had to choose one squad now who would you choose?
Quote from: corn02 on July 08, 2007, 10:11:13 PM
Why the bitterness my friend. If it was not for the fact I love the Meath team I would not have been too dissapointed if you had won last night.
I would still rather have this Armagh team than the Down team, the gulf in class still exists at present.
Good man yourself! ;)
Why? (
Just as a matter of interest!)
I do indeed Jinxy and I will be supporting you all the way now that ourselves are out.
Just saw the highlights again on RTE, looked like Benny should have had the penalty.
Am still too depressed about the whole thing to add my thoughts on the game. Other than that Down were awful. Truly awful.
Criticsm of the Down support is well out of line. The last 3 games at Newry have shown a huge turn out of fans for a hugely poor team, especially the 20 -30 age group of supporters all wearing (expensive) Down gear, lodly supporting the team. That they take another demoralising display in good sporting spirit should not be seen as a sign of disinterest.
I thought I wouldnt feel worse than after Sligo last year. WRONG! Meath are a poor team - Down were clueless, shapeless, lifeless, and clearly leaderless. Not a single breaking ball won in front of our midfield. That doesnt require tactics - it requires a decent half forwad - but then John Clarke was playing at fulll back!
I saw the team arriving all kitted out, separate kit van, physios and attendants to beat the band. All smoke and mirrors my friends - no substance at all. Shambles all round.
I agree that we need to take the league seriously next year - how about setting the target of actually winning at least ONE game?
Quote from: Leo on July 09, 2007, 12:31:29 AM
Criticsm of the Down support is well out of line. The last 3 games at Newry have shown a huge turn out of fans for a hugely poor team, especially the 20 -30 age group of supporters all wearing (expensive) Down gear, lodly supporting the team. That they take another demoralising display in good sporting spirit should not be seen as a sign of disinterest.
I thought I wouldnt feel worse than after Sligo last year. WRONG! Meath are a poor team - Down were clueless, shapeless, lifeless, and clearly leaderless. Not a single breaking ball won in front of our midfield. That doesnt require tactics - it requires a decent half forwad - but then John Clarke was playing at fulll back!
I saw the team arriving all kitted out, separate kit van, physios and attendants to beat the band. All smoke and mirrors my friends - no substance at all. Shambles all round.
I agree that we need to take the league seriously next year - how about setting the target of actually winning at least ONE game?
Some of the Kildare fans were saying this as well after we hockeyed them in the first match in Leinster. We can only beat whats put in front of us.
Firstly congrats to Meath . I hope ye have a good run . Secondly fair play to the Meath supporters great turn out and not afraid to support their team . I have noticed that Down teams 9 times out of 10 will take the field to a mild round of appluase where as opposition teams will be cheered on . I know us supporters have had the confidence knocked out of us for long enough but I just thought the whole thing on Saturday was flat , from the supporters right through every player and the management team the whole heap . I'm not critisisingt he lads who travel up and down the country supporting Down but we as supporters need to lift these boys as their own self belief is so low .
Ross and DJ , who would want their job ? They quite simply don't have the players at their disposal , simple as . We might have a handful of inter county players but not the 15 required plus subs . Ross made it plain he had no confidence in alot of our panel members . Someone asked was POR scapegoated for our poor performances and the answer to that has to be yes . He managed to turn an ordinary bunch of players into a Div 1 team but they were found out in the Championship as ordinary teams always are .
Our much talked about defence ? We thought Ross and DJ were going to start here but unfortunately no progress was made in this area and until it is we are going nowhere . Every possible variation of the same 8 -10 players has been tried and failed in this area over the last number of years so maybe its time for a clear out ? Things cant get much worse .
Positives , really hard to find any . Liam Doyle on the way back hopefully to take control of the number 6 shirt and give us some leadership in this area . Big Dan and Ambrose are a Mid field pair we could build something around . We have talented forwards who on their day are as good as most (obviously Saturday was not their day ) .
Better days ahead , sure they just have to come . We are Down!!
Quote from: Jinxy on July 09, 2007, 09:20:44 AM
We can only beat whats put in front of us.
Not all the time Jinxy ;)
Fair play to Meath, I thought they'd have too much for Down.
Decent draw next round too. Not easy but very winnable. Be nice to put a bogeyteam away too - this Meath team is probably a bit stronger than the previous ones that lost to Fermanagh, and Fermanagh perhaps not quite as good.
I'll rephrase that so Hound. "We can only beat whats put in front of us, provided the referee doesn't disallow a perfectly good goal and award an opposition goal despite a blatant square ball." ;D
Don't blame Ross: Down just aren't good enough
Bank of Ireland All-Ireland SFC Qualifying round one: Down 0-8 Meath 1-10
From Brendan Crossan at Pairc Esler, Newry
THEY don't make them like they used to in Down. As the sun sloped behind the Mourne mountains on Saturday evening, another worrying post-mortem was about to be conducted.
You could of course blame the manager. But you'd be wrong. Alternatively, you could cut through all the parochial bias and concede one painfully glaring fact: Down just don't have the players. They don't possess enough leaders or enough quality defenders to make a fist of Ulster or the back door system.
There were five points in it at the end, which was just about right. The home side could shout about Benny Coulter's first half penalty claim or Aidan Carr and Ronan Sexton's late goal chances, but Down would be clutching at straws. Meath were deserved winners on Saturday night, but they didn't even have to be at their best.
Ross Carr's side might still have been in with a chance of winning at half-time – they trailed by 1-4 to 0-4 – but by the 56th minute the visitors had stretched their lead to 1-9 to 0-5. It may have been only a seven-point margin, but Down didn't look capable of closing the gap.
Benny Coulter had been dispatched at left half-forward in a bid to get the Mayobridge attacker more involved, while Stephen Kearney and James McGovern formed a new-look, but woefully ineffective, inside forward line.
The early signs looked good for Down, though, when Coulter opened the scoring after two minutes, but it proved to be his side's only score from play in the entire game.
The Mournemen had to rely on Aidan Carr's right foot from placed balls for the remainder of their scores. Coulter's influence waned after a bright start and he was later pushed up on to the edge of the square in an effort to steal a goal.
In 1999, he was the county's bright young hope. Eight years on from winning an All-Ireland minor title, Coulter's inter-county career has been punctuated by disappointment. The years must pass by like minutes for Down's talisman.
Dan Gordon, John Clarke and Ronan Murtagh kept trying to the bitter end for Down in what was an awful team display. And yet, Meath were far from impressive.
The Royal County's regular centre-back and captain Anthony Moyles was pushed into midfield and pinched three points from play. In the 11th minute, he swept the ball over the bar with the outside of his boot for his first point and two minutes later 19-year-old debutant Shane O'Rourke fed the unmarked Peadar Byrne and the impressive half-forward fired the ball into the corner of Down's net.
Before this, forwards Stephen Bray and Brian Farrell were far from impressive, but their confidence grew when they realised just how liberal the Down defence could be.
Meath hit four unanswered points between the 43rd and 56th minutes through O'Rourke, Moyles, Niall McLoughlin and Bray that left the scores 1-9 to 0-5. Thereafter, the game was over as a contest.
No matter how many tweaks and changes Ross Carr made, the Down players didn't seem to believe that they would turn this game around. Ross and DJ have a long, hard road ahead of them.
match stats
Down: B McVeigh; J Clarke, D Rooney, A Scullion; R Murtagh, B Grant, M Cole; D Gordon, J Lynch; J McGovern, A Carr (0-7, all frees), R Sexton: M Walsh, S Kearney, B Coulter (0-1) Subs: K McGuigan for B Grant (32), P Murphy for M Cole (32), A Rodgers for S Kearney (47), P McComiskey for M Walsh (55)
Meath: B Murphy; E Harrington, D Fay, N McKeigue; S Kenny, A Moyles (0-3), C King; M Ward, N Crawford; J Donegan, K Reilly, P Byrne(1-0); S Bray (0-3), S O'Rourke (0-1), B Farrell (0-2, 2 frees) Subs: N McLoughlin (0-1) for J Donegan (28), C McCarthy for N Crawford (58)
Referee: P McGovern (Galway)
Carr trying to stay positive after defeat
By Brendan Crossan
THE manager's assessment. It was an easy opening question for the defeated manager. Ross Carr maintained Down were still in the game at half-time, but that too many unforced errors and wayward shooting cost had them dearly.
"At half-time we were still in the game because of a slight breeze," said Carr afterwards. "I thought possession-wise, we dominated the last 20 minutes. But we cannot be as reckless with our score-taking as we were, and we paid the penalty".
The questions started to get a little tougher. Your first year, Ross. Your assessment.
"It's moments like this that you definitely question yourself," said the Down manager. "But when we came into it, we felt it was going to be a long job. How long it's going to be only the people on board can determine that."
He added: "I still think we've made progress this year. Obviously, we didn't win a game in the National League and we didn't set the world alight in the Championship, and yet the teams that have beaten us – Monaghan and Meath – haven't thrashed us."
Raw materials, Ross. Does Down have enough to be challengers? The Clonduff clubman paused. He didn't want to drive the knife through the players he'd been building up all year. But the question called for a candid answer.
"I don't think we've the best panel of players in the country," he replied. "Obviously, we've deficiencies. I know our defence comes in for a lot of criticism, but in today's football, defence starts when you don't have the ball – no matter where you are on the field.
"I felt Meath got out of their defence too easily to launch attacks."
Meath manager Colm Coyle pointed to his side's defence as the key to their five-point victory.
"I thought defensively we were very good," said the former Meath player. "I didn't realise that Down only scored one point from play, so our defence was our foundation."
I can't believe that some people think Meath are a poor team. They have the forwards to do damage and could go further than people think this year. Hopefully anyway.
Well done to Meath . Also one of my favourite teams. Particulary grateful for giving us the 91 all ireland.
Where are all the ' bridge lads ?
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2007, 12:16:25 PM
I can't believe that some people think Meath are a poor team. They have the forwards to do damage and could go further than people think this year. Hopefully anyway.
Down are abysmal and Meath just about managed to beat them not forgetting definitely peanlty not given for fould on Coulter and some Down near misses at end. Spirit of Fay and superb Moyles dispays kept meath afloat with occasional glimpses from Bray and Farrell. So, no, not a gooid Meath team. However, a kind draw in the next round will see Geraghty back and another shot at progress.
Leo, I feel if Meath needed to up the ante they certainly could of. The second half was as comfortable as you will see and if it wasn't for the fact Crawford went off with fifteen minutes still to go, Down probably would not have dominated the end proceddings.
Quote from: Leo on July 09, 2007, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2007, 12:16:25 PM
I can't believe that some people think Meath are a poor team. They have the forwards to do damage and could go further than people think this year. Hopefully anyway.
Down are abysmal and Meath just about managed to beat them not forgetting definitely peanlty not given for fould on Coulter and some Down near misses at end. Spirit of Fay and superb Moyles dispays kept meath afloat with occasional glimpses from Bray and Farrell. So, no, not a gooid Meath team. However, a kind draw in the next round will see Geraghty back and another shot at progress.
Tyrone nearly lost to Fermanagh. Derry and Donegal beat Armagh. Leitrim nearly beat Donegal. Monaghan beat Derry. Mayo conceded 3 goals against Cavan. Sligo beat Galway. Not that many good teams in the top 10 if you were to base your opinion on their merits on their poorer games alone.
down posters slabbering about how poor meath are/were, should really shut up. its embarassing that after watching saturday's game some of you have the bottle to log on here and slag off meath.....!
it was nearly as bad a sligo last year.
we were rank, absolutely crap, and yet we owned the ball for the last 20 mins and still couldnt put up any meaningful scores or threat.
Lets just call a spade a spade here..imo They were/are all crap apart from Clarke & Scullion and maybe Mc Veigh.
Scullion is a no-nonsense defender who rarely gives his man little or no space/time on the ball, he is always up his mans ar*e and just comes across as a guy who would die on the ball and always gives of his best, rarely looks disinterested or preoccupied with anything other than the task at hand. if only we had a few more players with his attitude and desire. Im no carryduff man, nor do i rate him highly as a "footballer" and ive seen him get skinned a few times at club level but what i do admire are his other qualities,(see above).
Clarke did little wrong for me, for a guy (like so many others) who is moved around more than often in the down team this last 3 yrs, he did simple things so well, he won ball in the air, layed it off to team mates and was (like scullion) tight on his man and won his individual battle.
Murtagh experiment is over - a disater waiting to happen, was skinned most of match and possibly should have released ball earlier to attack, if he wants to carry ball then play him in forward line (where he belongs) where resulting free kicks wont cost as much. an undoubted talent but saddened to see him made look so ordinary on saturday.
Most of our defence was a yard or two behind their men mostr of the game.
Question ; how often in 1st half especially did meath forwards win ball out in front uncontested and have time and space to turn, look up and pick a pass or hit a score (or wide in most cases)?..vey depressing to see no tackle or challenge of note.
Declan Rooney is a quite an average club player-outstanding by no means , but yet he is suddenly thrust into the limelight as captain and leader of the senior team in his full debut year. Maybe less pressure from captaincy role and a stint at wing half back would see a better return.
I hate to be personal on here and have tried not to get into slanging matches about individuals but im just calling it as i see it.
Kevin mc guigan has played in nearly every down match this year and still our management sees something that the rest of the county cant see. If he is a county standard corner back then my arse plays the banjo. again not questioning comittment or hunger the lad just doesnt have it. anyone notice how many times this year he has ended up on the wrong side of his man or his man has beaten him on the outside.
our forward line whether individually or collectively are not the most talentless bunch ever but by christ when are we going to have a set system of play with a set gameplan (excluding benny) where we can maximise potential from the attacking line. Every man should know his role, and should be carrying that role out to full potential. at the minute we are rudderless up front and seems to me that half of them dont want to shoot from distance or are looking to pass the ball when th shot is on.
Dont even want to comment on Coulter because its all been said before.
and again not wanting to harp on..i for one do not truly believe that our county senior panelists are leading the correct lifestyle required (or befitting semi-professional footballers) to compete or indeed conslidate with the top 15 teams in the country at the present time.
i also agree that the leagues need to be seriously looked at and revamped..
Quote from: goldenyears on July 09, 2007, 02:14:52 PM
down posters slabbering about how poor meath are/were, should really shut up. its embarassing that after watching saturday's game some of you have the bottle to log on here and slag off meath.....!
Golden years with wool in your ears. No one is slagging off Meath. You have genuine Down fans trying to put a series of dreadful performances into a wider context and recognising that these defeats are not being inflicted by kerry, Cork or Tyrone but by average teams (like Meath) who honestly will not count come September. Take off the blinkers.
Brick Tamlin - now there's a name!
Agree on most points.
Have we lost the entire U21 team from two years ago?
Is there nobody in Castlewellan, Liatroim or Kilcoo who warrants a try instead of the same failures being rotated like deck chairs on the Titanic?
Hard to believe DJ - the essence of commitment and leadership - is associated with this abject outfit.
leo i didnt say you were slagging off meath, but you were talking rubbish when you called them a bad team. I dont think we are in any position to say whether they are a bad team or not having watched our own serve up that shite. lets wait for the rest of the summer to see just how bad meath really are.....i think rather than being bad, they were brought down to a level - our bad awful terrible level! remember they were but a kick away from beating dublin, so called all ireland contenders|!
Can't disagree with what has been said by most Down fans - the quality isn't there.
But what annoyed me on Sat night was the obvious lack of an attacking game plan.
Meath had one - in the first half they isolated the ff line and once they got the ball they hit a diagonal pass out in front of the corner men, who had already started running. They got every pass.
The defence - much criticised - did well enough, especially Scullion and Clarke. The forward line was clueless and leaderless. Benny should have been switched back to the ff line sooner. When our half backs got the ball they didn't know what to do with it - nobody moved, nobody knew where to move to - surely the managements fault if they hadn't been told - most of them don't have the class or wit of a Mickey Linden or James McCartan.
Totally depressed - we need to start from scratch again.
Well - not totally depressed at least the Orangemen got what was coming to them - 8 years of domination and one AI - don't make me laugh!! ;)
I think it's too easy to say we just don't have the players. We've won two All-Ireland minor titles and got to an All-Ireland U21 final in the last eight years. I'd say lots of county's would be envious of that sort of talent at underage level. I believe the talent is there, the one thing that's missing is the hunger. I remember reading an interview with Ross Carr before the first Cavan game in the Sunday Times. He admits that when he started playing for the county, it took him a while to understand the seriousness of it. He also said it took players like Greg Blaney to put him in his place and teach him that he needed to get his attitude right.
That's what I think is wrong with the current panel. There is undoubted talent there, but too many of them are arsing about. The effort is always there in the Ulster Championship, but once they're out of that, they don't want to know in the Qualifiers. The Qualifiers should have been an ideal system for a transistional team like Down, but I think they have only beaten Carlow in the six years of the back door.
Talent-wise, there is little that can be added. We have missed Dan McCartan, Dee Rafferty and Liam Doyle from the defence and Martin Clarke would certainly be playing senior football had he not gone to Australia. James Colgan should be back next year and I think he is future captain material. Ross and DJ will have learned a lot from this year, but I don't think there will be wholesale changes for next year. I'd say about 8-10 of this year's regular starting 15 will be regulars next year, maybe some of the supporting cast will be change. Division Three is about our level, but the minimum requirement should be promotion next year.
QuoteAnyone know of a good sports psychologist?
What about Mr U R Dropped? He'd be a great motivator.
Fear Boirche, Down have managed the magnificent total of two wins in seven seasons of the qualifiers. We gave Armagh a bit of a scare in 01 before fading away, we were well beaten away to Longford in Pete McGrath's last game in 2002, well beaten by Donegal in 2003, won at Carlow in 2004 and then started well against Tyrone but collapsed in the second half, had a decent win at home to Fermanagh in 2005 and then gave away three very poor goals in losing to Derry, and had another disaster in Sligo last year before this year's defeat.
According to the match programme on Saturday, our record in the back door was the 24th worst in the country going into the game. All the counties below us in the table are now in the Tommy Murphy Cup, where there must be a danger we are heading unless we start to turn things round.
The firm evidence is that we lack any real self belief and, when we go out of the championship, always look a very vulnerable side in the qualifiers. We actually started quite well on Saturday, but, when their goal went in, slightly against the run of play, we collapsed again.
Television replays show that Benny had a stonewall penalty turned down, but, even if it had been scored against a good keeper, Meath would probably have upped their game and pulled away.
I believe our division three rivals in next year's league are Fermanagh, Leitrim, Limerick, Louth, Longford, Sligo and Wexford. On this summer's form, Sligo and Louth would be the favourites to go up. We have to regroup, get off to a good start and somehow build a squad with some mental and physical toughness.
If we don't, and we fail to win our early home games, another relegation is not out of the question. I prefer to look on the bright side, and hope for promotion followed by a reasonable draw in the championship. Division four would of course mean the Tommy Murphy Cup instead of the qualifiers, so, if that prospect does not motivate our players, nothing will.
Enda McNulty is a good sports phychologist and has a free summer, no? Just a thought.
I would not be surprised to see Meath make a semi or a leats give a good account in the quarters.
Quote
Benny plays an occasional cameo role but has never delivered on his promise. Probably been at the wrong club for that. Downs worst spell for 50 years has been matched by Mayobridge dominance at club level within the county ( and abject failure in Ulster Club).
bcarrier I'm on holiday so I haven't been in front of the computer much, and hadn't intended to be online at all today but 3 people mentioned your comment above to me in the Bridge dressing room last night and I just couldn't let that go. I'd like you to explain exactly how pur period of dominance is to blame for Down's poor performances. What more can we as a club do? Our five best players are with the county panel, if the whole team had shown the heart Ronan Sexton has shown this season Down wouldn't be in this situation.
Your hatred of the Bridge is clouding your judgement, either that or you had been on the beer when your wrote the above comment. Where would Down be without the Bridge contingent? Don't answer that it doesn't bear thinking about. The Bridge as a club are doing everything right at the minute and hard work is paying off for us. Our teams are well coached and no stone is left unturned in preparing our teams, this hard work has delivered 6 championships since 99. Don't blame us because other clubs aren't at our level.
I won't be back in front of a pc for a few days but I look forward to reading your reply over the weekend.
One of the headlines in y'days paper was : DONT BLAME CARR - DOWN ARE SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH - and this is a fair enough analysis - they won 1 match this year - surely this tells all the story -
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 09, 2007, 09:54:54 PM
According to the match programme on Saturday, our record in the back door was the 24th worst in the country going into the game.
Mourne Rover - after Saturday our record is now 25th worst - Kildare having gone above us after their win. What a record for Down!
The debacle against Sligo last year led to loud claims for POR to go. By any standards - results in McKenna Cup, Nat League, Championship, Qualifiers - and most of all the evidence of our own eyes - the situation this year is far far worse. Name me one improvement that has been made either in personnel, positions, tactics or most of all ,spirit. Somebody on the bus is kidding us - but not all of us.
So what are you saying Leo? Ross and DJ out? Wholesale changes?
Name them
Well Denver - let's start with your clubman Benny. Can you explain his recent performances in the Down jersey? Is he played out of position? Is he not motivated? Has he suddenly become just an ordinary player?
Now let's consider Brenadan Grant - do you think he is anything other than a fiull back or corner back?
How many club games do you go to? How many players from Castlewellan or Kilcoo have been given a fair crack in the team?
Just to start you thinking ........
Let the bloodletting begin then .........................
Seriously but - yuo can't just give DJ / Ross one year and throw them out - Down need time - they need to find new players and find a new attitude as well.
Aidan, I really dont have any hate for the 'bridge ( but do like to get a rise out of you) . While I am sure you would have hoped to have done better in Ulster I think there has probably been a certain level of contentment amongst supporters there with success in Down. ( you talked yourself about meath being a good test - if we lost we could get on with club season) It strikes me that a lot of ' bridge lads are happy to be beating Clonduff, Kilcoo and Burren without wanting to be the very best they could be. ( I read Benny's interview in Sunday Times lately and in fairness to him he did a fair critique of himself). It is of course up to every other club to do the same .
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on July 09, 2007, 02:25:01 PM
it was nearly as bad a sligo last year.
we were rank, absolutely crap, and yet we owned the ball for the last 20 mins and still couldnt put up any meaningful scores or threat.
Lets just call a spade a spade here..imo They were/are all crap apart from Clarke & Scullion and maybe Mc Veigh.
Scullion is a no-nonsense defender who rarely gives his man little or no space/time on the ball, he is always up his mans ar*e and just comes across as a guy who would die on the ball and always gives of his best, rarely looks disinterested or preoccupied with anything other than the task at hand. if only we had a few more players with his attitude and desire. Im no carryduff man, nor do i rate him highly as a "footballer" and ive seen him get skinned a few times at club level but what i do admire are his other qualities,(see above).
Clarke did little wrong for me, for a guy (like so many others) who is moved around more than often in the down team this last 3 yrs, he did simple things so well, he won ball in the air, layed it off to team mates and was (like scullion) tight on his man and won his individual battle.
Murtagh experiment is over - a disater waiting to happen, was skinned most of match and possibly should have released ball earlier to attack, if he wants to carry ball then play him in forward line (where he belongs) where resulting free kicks wont cost as much. an undoubted talent but saddened to see him made look so ordinary on saturday.
Most of our defence was a yard or two behind their men mostr of the game.
Question ; how often in 1st half especially did meath forwards win ball out in front uncontested and have time and space to turn, look up and pick a pass or hit a score (or wide in most cases)?..vey depressing to see no tackle or challenge of note.
Declan Rooney is a quite an average club player-outstanding by no means , but yet he is suddenly thrust into the limelight as captain and leader of the senior team in his full debut year. Maybe less pressure from captaincy role and a stint at wing half back would see a better return.
I hate to be personal on here and have tried not to get into slanging matches about individuals but im just calling it as i see it.
Kevin mc guigan has played in nearly every down match this year and still our management sees something that the rest of the county cant see. If he is a county standard corner back then my arse plays the banjo. again not questioning comittment or hunger the lad just doesnt have it. anyone notice how many times this year he has ended up on the wrong side of his man or his man has beaten him on the outside.
our forward line whether individually or collectively are not the most talentless bunch ever but by christ when are we going to have a set system of play with a set gameplan (excluding benny) where we can maximise potential from the attacking line. Every man should know his role, and should be carrying that role out to full potential. at the minute we are rudderless up front and seems to me that half of them dont want to shoot from distance or are looking to pass the ball when th shot is on.
Dont even want to comment on Coulter because its all been said before.
and again not wanting to harp on..i for one do not truly believe that our county senior panelists are leading the correct lifestyle required (or befitting semi-professional footballers) to compete or indeed conslidate with the top 15 teams in the country at the present time.
i also agree that the leagues need to be seriously looked at and revamped..
Brick
You cant say Scullion is near a County standard defender - he was bloody roasted in the first half and should have got the early shower with Grant moving to the full back line.
Down are dire and need to start winning games at any level and should start by going for the tommy murphy cup next year and blood players on confidence not demoralising league defeats.
Maybe another walk up Donard should be called for with half them staying up at the summit!!!!!!!!!!!!
im sticking by what i said. Grant to full back would be no better off im afraid, he hasnt same pace as scullion although he can read a game well and is safe on the ball, but for all out pace & energy id be sticking with scullion for full back. everyone has an opinion.
Quote from: orangeman on July 10, 2007, 11:02:29 AM
Let the bloodletting begin then .........................
Seriously but - yuo can't just give DJ / Ross one year and throw them out - Down need time - they need to find new players and find a new attitude as well.
Ross said earlier that it was a young panel and would take soime time. It is the same bloody panel that POR had except a few of them are now being played totally out of position (Murtagh, Clarke etc.).At least POR had restored pride in the Down jersey notwithstanding the poor display against Sligo (by the way Sligo dont look too bad after this wekkend do they?).
Now you're talking wombles.
Root and branch approach needed.
A strategic plan for the county required--but do we have the right personnel,to do it objectively?
We have taken the lead before in terms of innovation--Maurice Hayes etc.,in the 60s,so why not set the standard for other counties again,by taking the county to a superior level of organisation.
Demographically speaking ,we are potentially one of the strongest counties in Ireland-and we have proven in the past when we get organised we're as good as anyone!
Parochial rivalries ,petty jealousies,and short-sighted side-swipes at senior players/management have to be put to one side.
could someone please tell me why kilcoo are top of div 1 the past two years and played the bridge to a point in last years county semi final
yet they have no one on the panel?
i have not seen them play this year but have read about them
could someone shed a bit of light why they are not represented??
does anyone think ross and dj have missed anyone is the quest for unearthed talent?
Just been thinking about the whole situation our county is in at the moment. In my opinion a whole restructuring of the underage setup is needed. Although our Development squads are well enough run I think we need something more dynamic.
At U-12 level (1st Year School) and U-13 level (2nd Year School), I would be in favour of South Down and East Down Development Squads. Here, the Down schools would have a big part to play. This would involve regular Blitzes and Tournaments throughout the year. Grammar, Secondary and Vocational schools should all compete under the same umbrella and these initiatives should be co-ordinated by an elected group of school teachers with the assistance of the County Board. Players that are selected on these teams should be picked on performances during these Blitzes. At these two levels both South and East Down should have two teams at each level. For example, two East Down U-13 teams with 30 players in each panel. During the year South Down would play East Down in challenge games while outside games against say Mid Armagh should also be arranged. Joint Seminars on Diet, Fitness and the like should be held every couple of months for each team and the necessary training gear and equipment should be provided to the players. Note: In 2nd year schools in Down should compete in the Dalton, Corn Comchille etc.
At U-14 level (3rd Year School) I would change the system and adopt a whole County approach werein the best 30 players form a Down U-14 A Squad while the next best 30 form a Down U-14 B squad. This is where a group of Level 2 standard coaches should come in and direct affairs. Players should be selected on their records from the previous two years. I know it may be going a bit far but maybe a file being kept on each Representative player would assist matters here aswell as previous coach and teacher advice. These two U-14 squads should train regularly, take part in as many Blitzes as possible and even head South for fixtures.
At U-15 level (4th Year School) one squad should prevail and the term 'Developmental' dropped. A panel of say 40 players should be selected for this team. A management team of at least four people should be put in charge of this set of players and should stay with them every year through to Minor. The selection of players should be pretty accurate at this stage and the strongest 40 should be a strong one. The Ulster Council have a part to play here aswell. Id like to see them establish an Ulster U-15 Championship based along the lines of the Senior Championship. This gives young players the chance to experience Championship level football whilst giving the management an idea of where the team is at.
Again, these U-15 players should move through to U-16 and U-17 level with the same management in place. Ulster Championships at U-16 and U-17 should be arranged aswell. Close links with the schools should also be maintained whilst open meetings with club representatives should be encouraged. One stipulation I would have with the U-17 squad is that open trials should be had at the start of the year. This allows for late developers to stake a claim for place. However, the squad should remain largely intact from previous years.
All going well the same 30+ panel of players that have been together since U-14 level and have been groomed since U-12s should then form the Minor (U-18 team).
Just a few other points:
* Do away with the East Down and South Down Boards and run all Underage competions from U-12 up under the auspices of Bord na Og.
* Try to get each school playing at 'A' standard level. For example, St Louis, St Patricks, St Colmans and the Abbey should all be playing at MacRory, Rannafast, Brock, Corn na Og and Dalton Level. On another note, though it may never happen, campaign for the likes of St Marks, St Malachy's and St Columbans to get the chance to play in B competions. For example, every Vocational School in Ulster should be allowed to enter the McLarnon Cup, Herald Cup etc.
* Encourage talented players who are thinking about leaving school in 5th year to stay on. This may mean that local Grammar schools may have to offer more Vocational styled subjects but this could entice those in the 16+ age range to stay on and play Senior Colleges football. Teachers, clubs and County mentors all would have a responsibility here.
* Make Gaelic Football more attractive than say the DYFL (Downpatrick Youth Football League). This organisation in my opinion has ruined some of the most talented players in East Down and again in my opinion is solely responsible for the RGU's lack of county representatives in previous years. The same can be said for Newry. Simply put, make Gaelic the more popular option.
* Schools should also think about making Gaelic and Hurling the primary sports in their PE curriculum. This would be crucial to football's advancement.
* Finally, Down needs a Centre of Excellence. I believe that a 5 pitch, floodlit arena complete with gym, sports hall, changing rooms, conference centre and medical resources is crucial. This facility could be used by every Football team from Senior to U-12 Development Squad. A central location such as Castlewellan would be best suited for this purpose.
Rant over.
It should be obvious that Down's GAA structures require major surgery, and DownFanatic has come up with a range of proposals which might form part of the basis for a five-year plan. I would not agree with development squads before u14 level, but I would be all in favour of a new strategy for our schools. Any changes to the McLarnon Cup etc could only go through on a province-wide basis, but there is nothing to prevent new internal competitions for Down.
A Centre of Excellence is an absolute essential. There are various ways in which it could be funded, but selling St Patrick's Park, if that is still an option, should not be ruled out.
While the decline in standards in the main towns of Newry and Downpatrick is not new, it still needs to be addressed. A programme which also includes Banbridge and particularly the biggest centre of population in the county, the area covered by the Bredagh, Carryduff and St Paul's clubs, should be established.
The established south and east Down clubs with smaller populations are doing a great job. It is the clubs with large catchment areas, and which have rival sporting and social attractions, which need some help.
Trials for the East Down u14 development squad are ongoing at the minute, the team is being looked after my Kilcoos Conor Lavery, no problem with the set up, especially when you consider that the Kilcoo under 14s were last years Feile champions,but the Down CB were also running the Hurling trials on the same day at different locations making it difficult to attend both.
trying to orginise u12s and,14s would be a big problem and would result in restructuring the fixtures, couldnt play these matches on weeknights due to the distances and the time taken to travel, especially for the like of Bredagh/Carryduff/St Pauls to go to Warrenpoint/An Riocht and back, and the same would be true for the return fixtures, they would have to be played on a saturday or sunday, not impossible as the U12s play Go Games on a Sundays.
a lot of good points there DF, wonder how many of them will get of the ground?
is conor laverty a coach? how does he warrant coaching an u14 development squad?
i know its deadly, how does he end up in charge of a development squad like this..what backround/education/degree/diploma/experience does he have or do these guys who are in charge have, is there an interview process or some sor tof criteria required.
sure half those u14s would be bigger than him too.
Golden Years, i believe so, coach/manager/mentor one of those and seems to be calling the shots when it comes to who is cut and who isnt, I dont know what his coaching credentials are, is he employed by the county board?
should we bring this discussion over to the county thread?
Just a point from an outsider looking in...
The perception seems to be from Down folk that the structures in place in Down are not good enough. However if they aren't then how did you win two minor all irelands in the last 8/9 years? Would the perception be that this is the schools coaching? From an outside viewpoint it seems transitioning players into good senior players would be your main problem - the question would be why is this? Would it be the standard of club football perhaps? It seems very one sided with Mayobridge and I do believe in years to come Crossmaglen being so dominant in Armagh football will have a detrimental effect on the county team so could it maybe be something like this? Just to add to debate - not an expert and would like to see Down come strong again.
to put it simply we won the All Ireland Minor Title in 99 because that team was a very talented team with most lads coming to fruition at just the right time (with hindsight, maybe too early in some cases).I wouldnt be placing too much praise on the management team from that era.
the minor winning team of 2005 was nowhere near as good on paper as alot of the previous years minor teams (a bit similar to U21 All Ireland Finalists a few years back) but they had 3/4 big game players in central positions which eventually saw them through, that and a mixture of poor opposition outside Ulster (bar Offaly) saw them lift a relatively easy All Ireland Title. and i mean no slight on that team by the way, they were in my opinion just one of the poorer teams to win an All Ireland.
So Brick in your opinion then the standard of players coming through isn't good enough?
It is to be honest a real shame for Down that Clarke went to Oz although you can't blame him.
Your last minor team at the time looked like it had very good players. Your man Colgan looked superb but boys like him just have not come through at senior level at all. I saw him in Sigerson and he was relatively anonymous. Ireland looked very good at the time in minor(think he was only just overage the year of the minor win?) but seeing him in Sigerson and he looked , to be honest, rubbish. Questions maybe need to be asked as to what is happening to these boys between minor and senior to make them turn out like this?
everyone knows there is a precarious drop there in that gap between minor and senior (even u21 in some cases) and that alot of guys fall by the wayside. also there is that other killer of players with potential - 3RD LEVEL EDUCATION (and i use that term loosely).
the guys that you have mentioned have unfortunately so far not lived up to the hype in terms of development, for one reason or another. There is a perception in Down that if you were a good minor then you will easily make the leap to senior, this couldnt be further from the truth.
Joe Ireland as far as i know struggles to start for Bryansford and is rarely heard of these days. While James Colgan in my eyes is possibly one of the most over-hyped players in Down. both have potential and at that i mean the potential to fill two very important positions on a Down Senior side but it might take a few years for them to come good. its more often than not that the players who end up standing out are those previous minors or u21s who werent grabbing the limelight at an early age. There is talent there undoubtedly but its harnessing that talent in the correct direction and ensuring that a professional approach/setup is in place and that social culture(drinking ahem) of the team does not get in the way of future development.
yes conor laverty is employed as a full time coach by the county board as a coaching office and has being for the last 2 or 3 years,so its full time job to start with. He has guided kilcoo to numerous east down and county titles at under 12 and 14 as well as being part of the management team which took kilcoo to an all-ireland under 14 success. As well as this he is taking a part time degree in coaching in Jordanstown, Would rather have someone with such experience and success behind them coaching my kids than a 6 ft + coach.
Promblem is transfer minor talent to u 21 level. Look at our last 2 u-21 campaigns compared to the same teams at minor level. There is too much emphasis on pre 18 and little or no development after that age.
Down Fanatic,some excellent ideas.
However,most modern sports development thinking discourages competitive football before 14 years of age.
The danger with selection of your elite players at this age ,is twofold.1.The selected players think they've made it already.2.Those who miss out are on the scrapheap.Neither group of players have the maturity at that stage to deal with success or failure.
You have hit on the key factors in underage development-the schools and the clubs.If we focus on these areas ,nobody with potential will slip through the net.
The difference between Down and Tyrone is not the quality of coaches in charge of our county squads,but rather the depth of quality coaches at schools and club levels.
We need to make sure that schools are encouraged to make GF their No.1 sport.Those schools who have done this have been successful and have produced the talent.
We need ALL clubs to actively encourage proper coaching at all levels.
The CB needs to assist clubs in "training up" coaches for all levels,and establish a coaching development program for every club.
Controversially,If clubs are unable to meet minimum criteria-CB should consider encouraging amalgamations,dissolving underperforming clubs,and allowing players to move to a club which is providing quality coaching.
The gap between minor and u21,should be filled by expecting all players who are serious about becoming senior county players to either play for their colleges,or the county rookie squad.The rookie squads should be restricted to non-college players only and should perhaps be allowed to compete at sigerson level.This would ensure that all potential county players are exposed to a uniform level of competition and coaching/lifestyle advice,regardless of their choice of career.
Finally,I would consider replacing u21 level with a senior county development squad.
There are a number of good ideas out there,and what we need is a county strategic plan conducted by the right calibre of people.
To be fair to Jerry Quinn,he was only in office a relatively short time.I must confess,I always thought he was prepared to listen to ideas rationally.The problem lies with the excessive bureaucratic nature of the GAA.If Jerry was presented with a good idea,he had to put it before the club representatives,who understandably have more parochial agendas.
That's why we need an independent strategic plan for all aspects of GAA in the county,conducted by someone like Peter Quinn,who knows the workings of the GAA,but is also a successful businessman.All interested parties can have their input to the plan.It can then be adopted and reviewed by the county admin team.
When should we start the process?YESTERDAY!
FFS leave the under14s alone, let them have fun and enjoy themselves learning to be part of a team and developing interest and their natural talent. Talk of coaching and competition at this level makes me sick, it does more harm than good, particularly when you see the quality of some of the coaching,and the manner in which it is delivered.