gaaboard.com

Trying to gauge opinion.

Post your answer as a comment also, if you are happy enough to.

Would be ashamed to be seen at a Derry match as long as he's in charge.

Love Rory Gallagher tbh. Saw him in Ulster Hall four or five times.

It would be disgusting and an offence to all women in the GAA to appoint that fella.

Gauge opinion ha, there's not 49 actual Derry posters on this forum.so I don't think the option poll on a manager counts for much here.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 15, 2024, 02:03:15 AMGauge opinion ha, there's not 49 actual Derry posters on this forum.so I don't think the option poll on a manager counts for much here.

Regardless, it gives a overhaul public view

I've given my vote based on what my thoughts would be as a Derry GAA supporter in this situation or if as an Armagh supporter we were faced with a similar scenario.

I don't think it is in the best interests of Derry GAA to re-appoint RG. I would immediately withdraw all support for the county if it went ahead. It sends out completely the wrong message and his candidacy should be declared a non-runner immediately. 

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:04:09 AMI've given my vote based on what my thoughts would be as a Derry GAA supporter in this situation or if as an Armagh supporter we were faced with a similar scenario.

I don't think it is in the best interests of Derry GAA to re-appoint RG. I would immediately withdraw all support for the county if it went ahead. It sends out completely the wrong message and his candidacy should be declared a non-runner immediately. 

There will obviously be a media/social media frenzy if re appointed but if he was appointed in say September there would be a big enough gap to the league say for it to be old news by the time that comes around.  I am not condoning his behaviour or appointment but I think people withdrawing their support when the "big games" come around would be in the minority(or may be due to personal circumstances e.g. a loved one having had similar abuse).  If this is the angle Derry are taking I am sure it has been put to the players about his return and if the squad weren't all for it I doubt it would happen. 

I wouldn't take the players want him back as the be all and end all, if you listen to most county players these days they will admit to being incredibly self centred and selfish as this is what it takes to succeed at the top level, men talking about how they have to walk out and leave the wife with 2-3 small kids and that football was the priority, them putting their own success at the centre of this debate would not be the yardstick for me

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 09:39:58 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:04:09 AMI've given my vote based on what my thoughts would be as a Derry GAA supporter in this situation or if as an Armagh supporter we were faced with a similar scenario.

I don't think it is in the best interests of Derry GAA to re-appoint RG. I would immediately withdraw all support for the county if it went ahead. It sends out completely the wrong message and his candidacy should be declared a non-runner immediately. 

There will obviously be a media/social media frenzy if re appointed but if he was appointed in say September there would be a big enough gap to the league say for it to be old news by the time that comes around.  I am not condoning his behaviour or appointment but I think people withdrawing their support when the "big games" come around would be in the minority(or may be due to personal circumstances e.g. a loved one having had similar abuse).  If this is the angle Derry are taking I am sure it has been put to the players about his return and if the squad weren't all for it I doubt it would happen. 

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 09:39:58 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:04:09 AMI've given my vote based on what my thoughts would be as a Derry GAA supporter in this situation or if as an Armagh supporter we were faced with a similar scenario.

I don't think it is in the best interests of Derry GAA to re-appoint RG. I would immediately withdraw all support for the county if it went ahead. It sends out completely the wrong message and his candidacy should be declared a non-runner immediately. 

There will obviously be a media/social media frenzy if re appointed but if he was appointed in say September there would be a big enough gap to the league say for it to be old news by the time that comes around.  I am not condoning his behaviour or appointment but I think people withdrawing their support when the "big games" come around would be in the minority(or may be due to personal circumstances e.g. a loved one having had similar abuse).  If this is the angle Derry are taking I am sure it has been put to the players about his return and if the squad weren't all for it I doubt it would happen. 

I disagree, I think it will be more than just a media frenzy. Some of those in the minority might also be big backers or corporate sponsors. You could be looking at protests and rallies at matches, like Ulster Rugby after the Jackson/Olding trial.

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:49:08 AM

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 09:39:58 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:04:09 AMI've given my vote based on what my thoughts would be as a Derry GAA supporter in this situation or if as an Armagh supporter we were faced with a similar scenario.

I don't think it is in the best interests of Derry GAA to re-appoint RG. I would immediately withdraw all support for the county if it went ahead. It sends out completely the wrong message and his candidacy should be declared a non-runner immediately. 

There will obviously be a media/social media frenzy if re appointed but if he was appointed in say September there would be a big enough gap to the league say for it to be old news by the time that comes around.  I am not condoning his behaviour or appointment but I think people withdrawing their support when the "big games" come around would be in the minority(or may be due to personal circumstances e.g. a loved one having had similar abuse).  If this is the angle Derry are taking I am sure it has been put to the players about his return and if the squad weren't all for it I doubt it would happen. 

I disagree, I think it will be more than just a media frenzy. Some of those in the minority might also be big backers or corporate sponsors. You could be looking at protests and rallies at matches, like Ulster Rugby after the Jackson/Olding trial.

You would think Derry would pick up with the sponsors in advance if they had any sense all the main internal stakeholders should be contacted.  Obviously Derry is more high profile than Corduff, but there doesn't seem to have been much publicity about him being there.  Wonder would there be media silence if he was back with Derry? 

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 11:35:59 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:49:08 AM

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 09:39:58 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:04:09 AMI've given my vote based on what my thoughts would be as a Derry GAA supporter in this situation or if as an Armagh supporter we were faced with a similar scenario.

I don't think it is in the best interests of Derry GAA to re-appoint RG. I would immediately withdraw all support for the county if it went ahead. It sends out completely the wrong message and his candidacy should be declared a non-runner immediately. 

There will obviously be a media/social media frenzy if re appointed but if he was appointed in say September there would be a big enough gap to the league say for it to be old news by the time that comes around.  I am not condoning his behaviour or appointment but I think people withdrawing their support when the "big games" come around would be in the minority(or may be due to personal circumstances e.g. a loved one having had similar abuse).  If this is the angle Derry are taking I am sure it has been put to the players about his return and if the squad weren't all for it I doubt it would happen. 

I disagree, I think it will be more than just a media frenzy. Some of those in the minority might also be big backers or corporate sponsors. You could be looking at protests and rallies at matches, like Ulster Rugby after the Jackson/Olding trial.

You would think Derry would pick up with the sponsors in advance if they had any sense all the main internal stakeholders should be contacted.  Obviously Derry is more high profile than Corduff, but there doesn't seem to have been much publicity about him being there.  Wonder would there be media silence if he was back with Derry? 

Was Banty funding Corduff though?

Derry need sponsors whereas Corduff always have the Banty €€€

Quote from: Taylor on August 15, 2024, 12:04:05 PM

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 11:35:59 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:49:08 AM

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 09:39:58 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:04:09 AMI've given my vote based on what my thoughts would be as a Derry GAA supporter in this situation or if as an Armagh supporter we were faced with a similar scenario.

I don't think it is in the best interests of Derry GAA to re-appoint RG. I would immediately withdraw all support for the county if it went ahead. It sends out completely the wrong message and his candidacy should be declared a non-runner immediately. 

There will obviously be a media/social media frenzy if re appointed but if he was appointed in say September there would be a big enough gap to the league say for it to be old news by the time that comes around.  I am not condoning his behaviour or appointment but I think people withdrawing their support when the "big games" come around would be in the minority(or may be due to personal circumstances e.g. a loved one having had similar abuse).  If this is the angle Derry are taking I am sure it has been put to the players about his return and if the squad weren't all for it I doubt it would happen. 

I disagree, I think it will be more than just a media frenzy. Some of those in the minority might also be big backers or corporate sponsors. You could be looking at protests and rallies at matches, like Ulster Rugby after the Jackson/Olding trial.

You would think Derry would pick up with the sponsors in advance if they had any sense all the main internal stakeholders should be contacted.  Obviously Derry is more high profile than Corduff, but there doesn't seem to have been much publicity about him being there.  Wonder would there be media silence if he was back with Derry? 

Was Banty funding Corduff though?

Derry need sponsors whereas Corduff always have the Banty €€€

That is exactly the difference. Banty would have walked if RG wasn't accepted by Corduff.

Quote from: Mikhailov on August 15, 2024, 12:42:01 PM

Quote from: Taylor on August 15, 2024, 12:04:05 PM

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 11:35:59 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:49:08 AM

Quote from: statto on August 15, 2024, 09:39:58 AM

Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2024, 09:04:09 AMI've given my vote based on what my thoughts would be as a Derry GAA supporter in this situation or if as an Armagh supporter we were faced with a similar scenario.

I don't think it is in the best interests of Derry GAA to re-appoint RG. I would immediately withdraw all support for the county if it went ahead. It sends out completely the wrong message and his candidacy should be declared a non-runner immediately. 

There will obviously be a media/social media frenzy if re appointed but if he was appointed in say September there would be a big enough gap to the league say for it to be old news by the time that comes around.  I am not condoning his behaviour or appointment but I think people withdrawing their support when the "big games" come around would be in the minority(or may be due to personal circumstances e.g. a loved one having had similar abuse).  If this is the angle Derry are taking I am sure it has been put to the players about his return and if the squad weren't all for it I doubt it would happen. 

I disagree, I think it will be more than just a media frenzy. Some of those in the minority might also be big backers or corporate sponsors. You could be looking at protests and rallies at matches, like Ulster Rugby after the Jackson/Olding trial.

You would think Derry would pick up with the sponsors in advance if they had any sense all the main internal stakeholders should be contacted.  Obviously Derry is more high profile than Corduff, but there doesn't seem to have been much publicity about him being there.  Wonder would there be media silence if he was back with Derry? 

Was Banty funding Corduff though?

Derry need sponsors whereas Corduff always have the Banty €€€

That is exactly the difference. Banty would have walked if RG wasn't accepted by Corduff.

The same sponsor that is rumoured be taking over as main sponsor, are the same group that had Gallagher in taking their u14 team recently. They will cover the sponsor piece behind the scenes, before announcing him.

It still amazes me that so many people have him down as guilty or have known about him for years.

If those same people knew he was committing abuse for years why didn't they go to the police?

I think the moderator needs to look at the some of these comments as many are saying a man is guilty of something whereas there is no public record of that.

Media will be very careful about what they say if he's reappointed too.

Once again, anyone guilty of the alleged crimes should be in prison.

There are some supporters who would defend their county no matter what the circumstance and criticise another county for doing the same thing.

Really can't understand the thinking Derry. Maybe that's because there's been no thinking!

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 15, 2024, 04:17:13 PM

Quote from: tbrick18 on August 15, 2024, 04:08:59 PMIt still amazes me that so many people have him down as guilty or have known about him for years.

If those same people knew he was committing abuse for years why didn't they go to the police?

I think the moderator needs to look at the some of these comments as many are saying a man is guilty of something whereas there is no public record of that.

Media will be very careful about what they say if he's reappointed too.

Once again, anyone guilty of the alleged crimes should be in prison.

Sean, haven't seen many people stating that he is outright guilty, but the circumstances are far too controversial and the Derry county board are making fools of themselves trying to get back with an ex.

Move on, better for everyone just to move on! Decent set of players, get another decent manager in with no baggage. Simple

Gallagher might not even have an All-Ireland in him so why risk reputations even further. 

Nail on head.

If RG gets the nod the following Joe Brolly podcast should be interesting.

He did not like (understatement) MH because he was a paid mercenary so I imagine his opinion of RG should be no different......you would think anyway.

Did he ever deny it?

Quote from: RedHand88 on August 15, 2024, 06:16:49 PMDid he ever deny it?

His denial of her accusations waa missing from every comment he made. That tells you everything unless of course you just don't want to listen

Quote from: Itchy on August 15, 2024, 08:03:52 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on August 15, 2024, 06:16:49 PMDid he ever deny it?

His denial of her accusations waa missing from every comment he made. That tells you everything unless of course you just don't want to listen

No it doesn't, if he got legal advice they would have told him to not get drawn on it, it's pretty common

This is a difficult one for me RG was never even prosecuted for this let alone convicted. Moreover has custody of his children following family proceedings which would have had to make findings of fact based on the allegations.

I worry that as a society we no longer believe in the presumption of innocence.

If someone wants to appoint him then they should do their own investigation, reach their own conclusions and if satisfied then appoint away.

I'm not sure that not doing it because of public opinion is really any better than doing it.

Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2024, 09:23:36 PMThis is a difficult one for me RG was never even prosecuted for this let alone convicted. Moreover has custody of his children following family proceedings which would have had to make findings of fact based on the allegations.

I worry that as a society we no longer believe in the presumption of innocence.

If someone wants to appoint him then they should do their own investigation, reach their own conclusions and if satisfied then appoint away.

I'm not sure that not doing it because of public opinion is really any better than doing it.

As in, weighing up that it's not worth the hassle & shit.
I'm still confused that all this debate is happening around Rory Gallagher. You'd think it was the best manager on the planet. We had a Derry poster on here exclaiming that Derry need an elite manager. They've just gassed Mickey Harte....and he's mad after Rory Gallagher. His profile has massively increased since he left Derry it seems.

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 15, 2024, 09:42:07 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2024, 09:23:36 PMThis is a difficult one for me RG was never even prosecuted for this let alone convicted. Moreover has custody of his children following family proceedings which would have had to make findings of fact based on the allegations.

I worry that as a society we no longer believe in the presumption of innocence.

If someone wants to appoint him then they should do their own investigation, reach their own conclusions and if satisfied then appoint away.

I'm not sure that not doing it because of public opinion is really any better than doing it.

As in, weighing up that it's not worth the hassle & shit.
I'm still confused that all this debate is happening around Rory Gallagher. You'd think it was the best manager on the planet. We had a Derry poster on here exclaiming that Derry need an elite manager. They've just gassed Mickey Harte....and he's mad after Rory Gallagher. His profile has massively increased since he left Derry it seems.

What I am saying is if you conducted an investigation and concluded that hes not guilty of any morally reprehensible conduct then I think theres nothing to weigh up.  The views of those who dont believe in the presumption of innocence or in rehabilitation shouldn't trump the outcome 

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on August 15, 2024, 08:58:44 PM

Quote from: Itchy on August 15, 2024, 08:03:52 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on August 15, 2024, 06:16:49 PMDid he ever deny it?

His denial of her accusations waa missing from every comment he made. That tells you everything unless of course you just don't want to listen

No it doesn't, if he got legal advice they would have told him to not get drawn on it, it's pretty common

Nope. I have never ever heard of legal advice that tells the accused to make a lengthly statement about serious accusations against you but under no circumstances should you deny the accusations. If you can find me an example of such advice to anyone else I'd love to see it. Unfortunately for RG, unlike other poor victims of domestic violence, his had witnesses.

Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2024, 10:01:54 PM

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 15, 2024, 09:42:07 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2024, 09:23:36 PMThis is a difficult one for me RG was never even prosecuted for this let alone convicted. Moreover has custody of his children following family proceedings which would have had to make findings of fact based on the allegations.

I worry that as a society we no longer believe in the presumption of innocence.

If someone wants to appoint him then they should do their own investigation, reach their own conclusions and if satisfied then appoint away.

I'm not sure that not doing it because of public opinion is really any better than doing it.

As in, weighing up that it's not worth the hassle & shit.
I'm still confused that all this debate is happening around Rory Gallagher. You'd think it was the best manager on the planet. We had a Derry poster on here exclaiming that Derry need an elite manager. They've just gassed Mickey Harte....and he's mad after Rory Gallagher. His profile has massively increased since he left Derry it seems.

What I am saying is if you conducted an investigation and concluded that hes not guilty of any morally reprehensible conduct then I think theres nothing to weigh up.  The views of those who dont believe in the presumption of innocence or in rehabilitation shouldn't trump the outcome 

I think you're looking too deep into it. "That's a mess. Avoid." Is about the long & short of it.

Quote from: Itchy on August 15, 2024, 10:03:36 PM

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on August 15, 2024, 08:58:44 PM

Quote from: Itchy on August 15, 2024, 08:03:52 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on August 15, 2024, 06:16:49 PMDid he ever deny it?

His denial of her accusations waa missing from every comment he made. That tells you everything unless of course you just don't want to listen

No it doesn't, if he got legal advice they would have told him to not get drawn on it, it's pretty common

Nope. I have never ever heard of legal advice that tells the accused to make a lengthly statement about serious accusations against you but under no circumstances should you deny the accusations. If you can find me an example of such advice to anyone else I'd love to see it. Unfortunately for RG, unlike other poor victims of domestic violence, his had witnesses.

Strange I thought the advice would likely have been not to comment at all on the allegations even to refute them.

"Did he ever deny it?"

"His denial of her accusations waa missing from every
comment he made. That tells you everything unless of course you just don't want
to listen"

If someone denies something, do you automatically believe them?

If RG had denied it at the time, would you have believed him over the witnesses you have mentioned?

If he made a statement today denying the accusations would that mean he is a fit and proper person to manage a GAA team?

I appreciate this is a discussion board but IMO any argument based on someone not denying something being evidence that they did it is completely flawed.

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 15, 2024, 09:42:07 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2024, 09:23:36 PMThis is a difficult one for me RG was never even prosecuted for this let alone convicted. Moreover has custody of his children following family proceedings which would have had to make findings of fact based on the allegations.

I worry that as a society we no longer believe in the presumption of innocence.

If someone wants to appoint him then they should do their own investigation, reach their own conclusions and if satisfied then appoint away.

I'm not sure that not doing it because of public opinion is really any better than doing it.

As in, weighing up that it's not worth the hassle & shit.
I'm still confused that all this debate is happening around Rory Gallagher. You'd think it was the best manager on the planet. We had a Derry poster on here exclaiming that Derry need an elite manager. They've just gassed Mickey Harte....and he's mad after Rory Gallagher. His profile has massively increased since he left Derry it seems.

I'd agree with your first few lines on hassle and Harte.
The bit about Gallagher not being one of the best around.. He definitely is imo and there's not too many available to pick from for the season ahead

The 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 11:57:42 AMThe 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Is it? because we know there's been public law proceedings and a finding of fact in his favour. We also know that the authorities in the North investigated the case and issued a no prosecution decision, that was affirmed on review.

We also know complaints were made to the Gardai. I'm not sure what happened those.

The issue with the 'inventor of sell by dates' was that he was protected by a corrupt establishment until the people turned on him.

Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2024, 10:54:53 PM

Quote from: Itchy on August 15, 2024, 10:03:36 PM

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on August 15, 2024, 08:58:44 PM

Quote from: Itchy on August 15, 2024, 08:03:52 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on August 15, 2024, 06:16:49 PMDid he ever deny it?

His denial of her accusations waa missing from every comment he made. That tells you everything unless of course you just don't want to listen

No it doesn't, if he got legal advice they would have told him to not get drawn on it, it's pretty common

Nope. I have never ever heard of legal advice that tells the accused to make a lengthly statement about serious accusations against you but under no circumstances should you deny the accusations. If you can find me an example of such advice to anyone else I'd love to see it. Unfortunately for RG, unlike other poor victims of domestic violence, his had witnesses.

Strange I thought the advice would likely have been not to comment at all on the allegations even to refute them.

That's what I'd have thought and a few friends in the legal profession told me the same. But sure what would you or them know. People on social media all know better

I think Itchy's point is that Rory Gallagher did issue a public statement on the matter.

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 12:53:42 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 11:57:42 AMThe 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Is it? because we know there's been public law proceedings and a finding of fact in his favour. We also know that the authorities in the North investigated the case and issued a no prosecution decision, that was affirmed on review.

We also know complaints were made to the Gardai. I'm not sure what happened those.

The issue with the 'inventor of sell by dates' was that he was protected by a corrupt establishment until the people turned on him.

As a law professional I am sure you are more aware than almost anyone else on here of the difficulty in successfully prosecuting domestic violence crimes.

Disappointed that you are taking this stance.

Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2024, 09:23:36 PMThis is a difficult one for me RG was never even prosecuted for this let alone convicted. Moreover has custody of his children following family proceedings which would have had to make findings of fact based on the allegations.

I worry that as a society we no longer believe in the presumption of innocence.

If someone wants to appoint him then they should do their own investigation, reach their own conclusions and if satisfied then appoint away.

I'm not sure that not doing it because of public opinion is really any better than doing it.

Does he have custody because she has, from what I have read, an alcohol issue?

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 03:05:21 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 12:53:42 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 11:57:42 AMThe 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Is it? because we know there's been public law proceedings and a finding of fact in his favour. We also know that the authorities in the North investigated the case and issued a no prosecution decision, that was affirmed on review.

We also know complaints were made to the Gardai. I'm not sure what happened those.

The issue with the 'inventor of sell by dates' was that he was protected by a corrupt establishment until the people turned on him.

As a law professional I am sure you are more aware than almost anyone else on here of the difficulty in successfully prosecuting domestic violence crimes.

Disappointed that you are taking this stance.

As a legal professional I know the following. Firstly there is a difficulty in securing any form of conviction because of the necessary standard of proof that applies in criminal cases. That said I also know that we have a conservative and risk adverse prosecution service who will direct prosecution in a high number of such cases. Consequently when the  prosecution even after review choose not to prosecute that is significant. I can't gainsay their reasons for doing so but I imagine they have greater knowledge than what is in the public forum.

Similarly as a legal professional I know that family courts aren't burdened by the same burden of proof. They take even suggestions of domestic violence very seriously and conducted extensive investigations involving many experts including lawyers for the children and the local health care trust. Their job isn't to establish which parent would it be better for kids to live with. Their job is to first of all establish would it be safe to allow either parent care of the children. If they have any suspicions following these involved and detailed investigations they won't take a risk. So again that is significant.

That coupled with the presumption in favour of innocence is where my stance comes from. However your concern for my stance is touching.

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 06:10:53 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 03:05:21 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 12:53:42 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 11:57:42 AMThe 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Is it? because we know there's been public law proceedings and a finding of fact in his favour. We also know that the authorities in the North investigated the case and issued a no prosecution decision, that was affirmed on review.

We also know complaints were made to the Gardai. I'm not sure what happened those.

The issue with the 'inventor of sell by dates' was that he was protected by a corrupt establishment until the people turned on him.

As a law professional I am sure you are more aware than almost anyone else on here of the difficulty in successfully prosecuting domestic violence crimes.

Disappointed that you are taking this stance.

As a legal professional I know the following. Firstly there is a difficulty in securing any form of conviction because of the necessary standard of proof that applies in criminal cases. That said I also know that we have a conservative and risk adverse prosecution service who will direct prosecution in a high number of such cases. Consequently when the  prosecution even after review choose not to prosecute that is significant. I can't gainsay their reasons for doing so but I imagine they have greater knowledge than what is in the public forum.

Similarly as a legal professional I know that family courts aren't burdened by the same burden of proof. They take even suggestions of domestic violence very seriously and conducted extensive investigations involving many experts including lawyers for the children and the local health care trust. Their job isn't to establish which parent would it be better for kids to live with. Their job is to first of all establish would it be safe to allow either parent care of the children. If they have any suspicions following these involved and detailed investigations they won't take a risk. So again that is significant.

That coupled with the presumption in favour of innocence is where my stance comes from. However your concern for my stance is touching.

Usually agree with majority of your posts David but having had a family member involved in a DV case, which is still ongoing, in which the children were taken into care by the Trust, can only completely disagree with you in this instance.

In the letter informing said family member of the decision not to prosecute, they were told initially there was insufficient evidence. On the advice of their solicitor they appealed and the subsequent letter effectively said it is a he said/she said matter and they won't be pursuing a prosecution.

These extensive investigations have been non existent and there have certainly not been many experts involved. A single social worker and a guardian appointed by the court are the only people who have been involved with the children.

There have been many suggestions (on both sides I will add) that the children shouldn't be returned to either parent yet the Trust appear ignorant to such and inconsistent at best, incompetent at worst. They also appear to make complete illogical decisions and u-turns for no reason. For example, an application was made to the court by the Trust to reduce parental contact of one parent mentioning they didn't demonstrate the ability to understand the requirements needed to be a parent. The application was to reduce contact to one hour supervised a week. This was rejected by the court who had the opinion current contact (two supervised visits of two hours) should remain. The very next day the trust informed us the same parent would now be getting unsupervised contact for three hours twice a week.

Any dealings I have had with the trust and their understaffed employees, have been an eye opener to the sheer incompetence and/or inability of the Trust at times. The point I am getting is that the "system" so to speak, is far from this infallible, bastion of truth you seem to suggest. Our experience has been the complete opposite.

Lies and misleading statements have regularly been believed by the Trust and not followed up or fact checked.

This is not a suggestion that RG is guilty, more to say in our experience, not being prosecuted and having custody of the kids means sweet f**k all and the Trust can easily be manipulated by someone with a bit of cunning or brains.

In this case, the abuser sought and was granted a temporary ex-parte Non-molestation and Occupation order which upon review and with evidence was immediately scrapped. Maybe you'll explain it better than I can, but my understanding is an ex-parte Non-molestation is brought without representation from the other party and is essentially a restraining order, which is enforceable even if the party whom the order is against isn't aware the other party is in the vicinity. ie they could be walking down the street and not even know the other party is in the same town and yet be arrested for breaching.

Quote from: Mike Tyson on August 16, 2024, 08:27:54 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 06:10:53 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 03:05:21 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 12:53:42 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 11:57:42 AMThe 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Is it? because we know there's been public law proceedings and a finding of fact in his favour. We also know that the authorities in the North investigated the case and issued a no prosecution decision, that was affirmed on review.

We also know complaints were made to the Gardai. I'm not sure what happened those.

The issue with the 'inventor of sell by dates' was that he was protected by a corrupt establishment until the people turned on him.

As a law professional I am sure you are more aware than almost anyone else on here of the difficulty in successfully prosecuting domestic violence crimes.

Disappointed that you are taking this stance.

As a legal professional I know the following. Firstly there is a difficulty in securing any form of conviction because of the necessary standard of proof that applies in criminal cases. That said I also know that we have a conservative and risk adverse prosecution service who will direct prosecution in a high number of such cases. Consequently when the  prosecution even after review choose not to prosecute that is significant. I can't gainsay their reasons for doing so but I imagine they have greater knowledge than what is in the public forum.

Similarly as a legal professional I know that family courts aren't burdened by the same burden of proof. They take even suggestions of domestic violence very seriously and conducted extensive investigations involving many experts including lawyers for the children and the local health care trust. Their job isn't to establish which parent would it be better for kids to live with. Their job is to first of all establish would it be safe to allow either parent care of the children. If they have any suspicions following these involved and detailed investigations they won't take a risk. So again that is significant.

That coupled with the presumption in favour of innocence is where my stance comes from. However your concern for my stance is touching.

Usually agree with majority of your posts David but having had a family member involved in a DV case, which is still ongoing, in which the children were taken into care by the Trust, can only completely disagree with you in this instance.

In the letter informing said family member of the decision not to prosecute, they were told initially there was insufficient evidence. On the advice of their solicitor they appealed and the subsequent letter effectively said it is a he said/she said matter and they won't be pursuing a prosecution.

These extensive investigations have been non existent and there have certainly not been many experts involved. A single social worker and a guardian appointed by the court are the only people who have been involved with the children.

There have been many suggestions (on both sides I will add) that the children shouldn't be returned to either parent yet the Trust appear ignorant to such and inconsistent at best, incompetent at worst. They also appear to make complete illogical decisions and u-turns for no reason. For example, an application was made to the court by the Trust to reduce parental contact of one parent mentioning they didn't demonstrate the ability to understand the requirements needed to be a parent. The application was to reduce contact to one hour supervised a week. This was rejected by the court who had the opinion current contact (two supervised visits of two hours) should remain. The very next day the trust informed us the same parent would now be getting unsupervised contact for three hours twice a week.

Any dealings I have had with the trust and their understaffed employees, have been an eye opener to the sheer incompetence and/or inability of the Trust at times. The point I am getting is that the "system" so to speak, is far from this infallible, bastion of truth you seem to suggest. Our experience has been the complete opposite.

Lies and misleading statements have regularly been believed by the Trust and not followed up or fact checked.

This is not a suggestion that RG is guilty, more to say in our experience, not being prosecuted and having custody of the kids means sweet f**k all and the Trust can easily be manipulated by someone with a bit of cunning or brains.

In this case, the abuser sought and was granted a temporary ex-parte Non-molestation and Occupation order which upon review and with evidence was immediately scrapped. Maybe you'll explain it better than I can, but my understanding is an ex-parte Non-molestation is brought without representation from the other party and is essentially a restraining order, which is enforceable even if the party whom the order is against isn't aware the other party is in the vicinity. ie they could be walking down the street and not even know the other party is in the same town and yet be arrested for breaching.

Firstly I am sorry for your experience.

I'm not holding the Trust or the Family Courts as some infallible system. I'm saying it would be one in a number of different factors which when all weighed together and balanced against things like (it's hard to secure convictions) that my view would be that it's a difficult position for Derry. Stuck between RG's entitlement to be treated as innocent against the backlash from a public who may not be fully informed or willing to afford a presumption of innocence. In those circumstances I'd be leaning towards a persons presumption of innocence.

On the issue of non mols they are criminal orders. They can be obtained without the respondent being made aware. It's a controversial topic in law here. They can't be enforced until served and they don't prevent accidental contact or even contact at all. They are designed to prevent molestation

That's fair. I read your comments as more or less that in family issues etc the courts and Trust wouldn't award custody unless rigours check etc. apologies if picked you up wrong.

As I said, I'm more making the point that custody of the kids can be a misleading bias in cases as our experience of Trust is they are understaffed and some workers incompetent. Which can easily lead to manipulation and distortion. But that's just my experience. Other Trusts I know operate more efficiently and are more competent.

Never even knew non-mols existed until family member was served. Couldn't believe the other party didn't have to be present or made aware of the process. Our barrister told us it would have covered accidental contact but I thought that was strange so will take your word on it.

Quote from: Mike Tyson on August 16, 2024, 09:23:48 PMThat's fair. I read your comments as more or less that in family issues etc the courts and Trust wouldn't award custody unless rigours check etc. apologies if picked you up wrong.

As I said, I'm more making the point that custody of the kids can be a misleading bias in cases as our experience of Trust is they are understaffed and some workers incompetent. Which can easily lead to manipulation and distortion. But that's just my experience. Other Trusts I know operate more efficiently and are more competent.

Never even knew non-mols existed until family member was served. Couldn't believe the other party didn't have to be present or made aware of the process. Our barrister told us it would have covered accidental contact but I thought that was strange so will take your word on it.

It wouldn't be unusual for us to advise that out of abundance of caution.

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 16, 2024, 03:22:06 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2024, 09:23:36 PMThis is a difficult one for me RG was never even prosecuted for this let alone convicted. Moreover has custody of his children following family proceedings which would have had to make findings of fact based on the allegations.

I worry that as a society we no longer believe in the presumption of innocence.

If someone wants to appoint him then they should do their own investigation, reach their own conclusions and if satisfied then appoint away.

I'm not sure that not doing it because of public opinion is really any better than doing it.

Does he have custody because she has, from what I have read, an alcohol issue?

Yes she is a vulnerable person and probably would struggle to mind her children. Some (not you) seem to think that gives a sort of justification to the violence done against her.

This is an extremely difficult and sensitive set of circumstances. On the one hand, RG was never convicted of a crime (assuming through lack of evidence) and also has custody of his children. To the outsider looking in, that would suggest that he has been wrongly accused. On the other hand, there seems to be this local knowledge that suggests that RG did everything that he is accused of, and everybody bar the Police know about it. As David pointed out above, that's not how the Law works, but at this moment in time, and possibly forever more, RG will not be able to outrun these rumours. For that reason, Derry would be making a big mistake by taking him back

Quote from: High Fielder on August 17, 2024, 08:20:14 AMThis is an extremely difficult and sensitive set of circumstances. On the one hand, RG was never convicted of a crime (assuming through lack of evidence) and also has custody of his children. To the outsider looking in, that would suggest that he has been wrongly accused. On the other hand, there seems to be this local knowledge that suggests that RG did everything that he is accused of, and everybody bar the Police know about it. As David pointed out above, that's not how the Law works, but at this moment in time, and possibly forever more, RG will not be able to outrun these rumours. For that reason, Derry would be making a big mistake by taking him back

Agree it's a very difficult situation and my view is probably more grounded in idealism than realism (which I accept) also I'm not local so am completely basing this on what has been reported. My issue though and it's not specific to the RG situation is that when you have a scenario where allegations have been made, investigated, reviewed and a no prosecution decision has been made (which in my experience are rare) and a family case has arrived at a conclusion like it has then preventing someone from moving on with their life, particularly if a potential employer does due diligence is a slap in the face of the presumption of innocence. Therefore public opinion sometimes has to take a back seat.

All that said. No investigation or court process or due diligence is infallible. So it's a difficult balancing exercise.

Quote from: David McKeown on August 17, 2024, 10:08:11 AM

Quote from: High Fielder on August 17, 2024, 08:20:14 AMThis is an extremely difficult and sensitive set of circumstances. On the one hand, RG was never convicted of a crime (assuming through lack of evidence) and also has custody of his children. To the outsider looking in, that would suggest that he has been wrongly accused. On the other hand, there seems to be this local knowledge that suggests that RG did everything that he is accused of, and everybody bar the Police know about it. As David pointed out above, that's not how the Law works, but at this moment in time, and possibly forever more, RG will not be able to outrun these rumours. For that reason, Derry would be making a big mistake by taking him back

Agree it's a very difficult situation and my view is probably more grounded in idealism than realism (which I accept) also I'm not local so am completely basing this on what has been reported. My issue though and it's not specific to the RG situation is that when you have a scenario where allegations have been made, investigated, reviewed and a no prosecution decision has been made (which in my experience are rare) and a family case has arrived at a conclusion like it has then preventing someone from moving on with their life, particularly if a potential employer does due diligence is a slap in the face of the presumption of innocence. Therefore public opinion sometimes has to take a back seat.

All that said. No investigation or court process or due diligence is infallible. So it's a difficult balancing exercise.

Imagine a scenario where a coach in your club was accused of being a paedophile. Witnesses had made some statements etc. However there was not enough evidence to get a prosecution. Would you be ok with that coach returning to coach in your club? I doubt it. Not unless those accusations were proven to be malicious and false. There's a bit of common sense required in the example above and the same with RG. Dogs on the street know what he was at and Derry GAA know too. Appointing him as he was convicted of no crime is pathetic snf insulting to women. But seems to be no moral leadership in Derry from what I can see.

I'll say as a Derry man I have huge reservations on him coming back but just to change the subject slightly, are Fermanagh and Donegal Gaa not getting off a bit light on this if it was common knowledge. People queuing up to get digs in at Derry

Is the famous tweet from Maguires' wife which was issued at the time genuine?
If it is he has no pmave anywhere near a GAA manager's job

Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2024, 02:21:26 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 17, 2024, 10:08:11 AM

Quote from: High Fielder on August 17, 2024, 08:20:14 AMThis is an extremely difficult and sensitive set of circumstances. On the one hand, RG was never convicted of a crime (assuming through lack of evidence) and also has custody of his children. To the outsider looking in, that would suggest that he has been wrongly accused. On the other hand, there seems to be this local knowledge that suggests that RG did everything that he is accused of, and everybody bar the Police know about it. As David pointed out above, that's not how the Law works, but at this moment in time, and possibly forever more, RG will not be able to outrun these rumours. For that reason, Derry would be making a big mistake by taking him back

Agree it's a very difficult situation and my view is probably more grounded in idealism than realism (which I accept) also I'm not local so am completely basing this on what has been reported. My issue though and it's not specific to the RG situation is that when you have a scenario where allegations have been made, investigated, reviewed and a no prosecution decision has been made (which in my experience are rare) and a family case has arrived at a conclusion like it has then preventing someone from moving on with their life, particularly if a potential employer does due diligence is a slap in the face of the presumption of innocence. Therefore public opinion sometimes has to take a back seat.

All that said. No investigation or court process or due diligence is infallible. So it's a difficult balancing exercise.

Imagine a scenario where a coach in your club was accused of being a paedophile. Witnesses had made some statements etc. However there was not enough evidence to get a prosecution. Would you be ok with that coach returning to coach in your club? I doubt it. Not unless those accusations were proven to be malicious and false. There's a bit of common sense required in the example above and the same with RG. Dogs on the street know what he was at and Derry GAA know too. Appointing him as he was convicted of no crime is pathetic snf insulting to women. But seems to be no moral leadership in Derry from what I can see.

Were there witnesses other than Gallaghers wife?

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on August 17, 2024, 02:35:04 PMI'll say as a Derry man I have huge reservations on him coming back but just to change the subject slightly, are Fermanagh and Donegal Gaa not getting off a bit light on this if it was common knowledge. People queuing up to get digs in at Derry

Fair enough question. Why aren't clonduff getting the same questions considering they willingly took him after the alleged allegations

Quote from: tyrone08 on August 17, 2024, 03:23:03 PM

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on August 17, 2024, 02:35:04 PMI'll say as a Derry man I have huge reservations on him coming back but just to change the subject slightly, are Fermanagh and Donegal Gaa not getting off a bit light on this if it was common knowledge. People queuing up to get digs in at Derry

Fair enough question. Why arenr clonduff getting the samw questions considering they willingly took him after the alleged allegations

Good point. Unless those in Fermanagh and Donegal are just those type of slabbers who will always say they knew everything that was going on after something is revealed.

What are county boards to do if they hear of allegations though? If they are not formal employers and are not the police, surely its not their responsibility to sort it out.

Quote from: tyrone08 on August 17, 2024, 03:23:03 PM

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on August 17, 2024, 02:35:04 PMI'll say as a Derry man I have huge reservations on him coming back but just to change the subject slightly, are Fermanagh and Donegal Gaa not getting off a bit light on this if it was common knowledge. People queuing up to get digs in at Derry

Fair enough question. Why arenr clonduff getting the samw questions considering they willingly took him after the alleged allegations

Also true.

@nrico - I remember posts under her original post at the time to the effect of "you don't know how long we have waited for you to say something" and that has always stayed with me. Why would people put their opinions out there unless they knew it to be true...

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 03:10:05 PM

Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2024, 02:21:26 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 17, 2024, 10:08:11 AM

Quote from: High Fielder on August 17, 2024, 08:20:14 AMThis is an extremely difficult and sensitive set of circumstances. On the one hand, RG was never convicted of a crime (assuming through lack of evidence) and also has custody of his children. To the outsider looking in, that would suggest that he has been wrongly accused. On the other hand, there seems to be this local knowledge that suggests that RG did everything that he is accused of, and everybody bar the Police know about it. As David pointed out above, that's not how the Law works, but at this moment in time, and possibly forever more, RG will not be able to outrun these rumours. For that reason, Derry would be making a big mistake by taking him back

Agree it's a very difficult situation and my view is probably more grounded in idealism than realism (which I accept) also I'm not local so am completely basing this on what has been reported. My issue though and it's not specific to the RG situation is that when you have a scenario where allegations have been made, investigated, reviewed and a no prosecution decision has been made (which in my experience are rare) and a family case has arrived at a conclusion like it has then preventing someone from moving on with their life, particularly if a potential employer does due diligence is a slap in the face of the presumption of innocence. Therefore public opinion sometimes has to take a back seat.

All that said. No investigation or court process or due diligence is infallible. So it's a difficult balancing exercise.

Imagine a scenario where a coach in your club was accused of being a paedophile. Witnesses had made some statements etc. However there was not enough evidence to get a prosecution. Would you be ok with that coach returning to coach in your club? I doubt it. Not unless those accusations were proven to be malicious and false. There's a bit of common sense required in the example above and the same with RG. Dogs on the street know what he was at and Derry GAA know too. Appointing him as he was convicted of no crime is pathetic snf insulting to women. But seems to be no moral leadership in Derry from what I can see.

Were there witnesses other than Gallaghers wife?

The statement from Sheila Maguire (wife of Stephen) was pretty damning I thought.

Quote from: tyrone08 on August 17, 2024, 03:23:03 PM

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on August 17, 2024, 02:35:04 PMI'll say as a Derry man I have huge reservations on him coming back but just to change the subject slightly, are Fermanagh and Donegal Gaa not getting off a bit light on this if it was common knowledge. People queuing up to get digs in at Derry

Fair enough question. Why arenr clonduff getting the samw questions considering they willingly took him after the alleged allegations

I think it's Corduff you're looking for.....and I'm not sure people could think less of them if they put the devil himself in as manager.

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on August 17, 2024, 02:35:04 PMI'll say as a Derry man I have huge reservations on him coming back but just to change the subject slightly, are Fermanagh and Donegal Gaa not getting off a bit light on this if it was common knowledge. People queuing up to get digs in at Derry

Clearly they didn't care until it was in the media. The same with their fans.

On his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

Quote from: tyrone08 on August 17, 2024, 03:23:03 PM

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on August 17, 2024, 02:35:04 PMI'll say as a Derry man I have huge reservations on him coming back but just to change the subject slightly, are Fermanagh and Donegal Gaa not getting off a bit light on this if it was common knowledge. People queuing up to get digs in at Derry

Fair enough question. Why arenr clonduff getting the samw questions considering they willingly took him after the alleged allegations

Need to be careful mentioning other clubs especially when you mention the wrong one. It is Corduff he is coaching

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 03:10:05 PM

Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2024, 02:21:26 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 17, 2024, 10:08:11 AM

Quote from: High Fielder on August 17, 2024, 08:20:14 AMThis is an extremely difficult and sensitive set of circumstances. On the one hand, RG was never convicted of a crime (assuming through lack of evidence) and also has custody of his children. To the outsider looking in, that would suggest that he has been wrongly accused. On the other hand, there seems to be this local knowledge that suggests that RG did everything that he is accused of, and everybody bar the Police know about it. As David pointed out above, that's not how the Law works, but at this moment in time, and possibly forever more, RG will not be able to outrun these rumours. For that reason, Derry would be making a big mistake by taking him back

Agree it's a very difficult situation and my view is probably more grounded in idealism than realism (which I accept) also I'm not local so am completely basing this on what has been reported. My issue though and it's not specific to the RG situation is that when you have a scenario where allegations have been made, investigated, reviewed and a no prosecution decision has been made (which in my experience are rare) and a family case has arrived at a conclusion like it has then preventing someone from moving on with their life, particularly if a potential employer does due diligence is a slap in the face of the presumption of innocence. Therefore public opinion sometimes has to take a back seat.

All that said. No investigation or court process or due diligence is infallible. So it's a difficult balancing exercise.

Imagine a scenario where a coach in your club was accused of being a paedophile. Witnesses had made some statements etc. However there was not enough evidence to get a prosecution. Would you be ok with that coach returning to coach in your club? I doubt it. Not unless those accusations were proven to be malicious and false. There's a bit of common sense required in the example above and the same with RG. Dogs on the street know what he was at and Derry GAA know too. Appointing him as he was convicted of no crime is pathetic snf insulting to women. But seems to be no moral leadership in Derry from what I can see.

Were there witnesses other than Gallaghers wife?

Yes there were.

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

Be the same reason for 99% of Tyrone men wouldn't it? Hopefully this statement doesn't offend them too much
Should find out the new management team in 3 weeks.. Alot depends on it

Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2024, 05:00:58 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 03:10:05 PM

Quote from: Itchy on August 17, 2024, 02:21:26 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 17, 2024, 10:08:11 AM

Quote from: High Fielder on August 17, 2024, 08:20:14 AMThis is an extremely difficult and sensitive set of circumstances. On the one hand, RG was never convicted of a crime (assuming through lack of evidence) and also has custody of his children. To the outsider looking in, that would suggest that he has been wrongly accused. On the other hand, there seems to be this local knowledge that suggests that RG did everything that he is accused of, and everybody bar the Police know about it. As David pointed out above, that's not how the Law works, but at this moment in time, and possibly forever more, RG will not be able to outrun these rumours. For that reason, Derry would be making a big mistake by taking him back

Agree it's a very difficult situation and my view is probably more grounded in idealism than realism (which I accept) also I'm not local so am completely basing this on what has been reported. My issue though and it's not specific to the RG situation is that when you have a scenario where allegations have been made, investigated, reviewed and a no prosecution decision has been made (which in my experience are rare) and a family case has arrived at a conclusion like it has then preventing someone from moving on with their life, particularly if a potential employer does due diligence is a slap in the face of the presumption of innocence. Therefore public opinion sometimes has to take a back seat.

All that said. No investigation or court process or due diligence is infallible. So it's a difficult balancing exercise.

Imagine a scenario where a coach in your club was accused of being a paedophile. Witnesses had made some statements etc. However there was not enough evidence to get a prosecution. Would you be ok with that coach returning to coach in your club? I doubt it. Not unless those accusations were proven to be malicious and false. There's a bit of common sense required in the example above and the same with RG. Dogs on the street know what he was at and Derry GAA know too. Appointing him as he was convicted of no crime is pathetic snf insulting to women. But seems to be no moral leadership in Derry from what I can see.

Were there witnesses other than Gallaghers wife?

Yes there were.

The police should talk to them.

Fair play to Gary Colman.

It comes down to how you interpret the following - the CPS did not action  the case as there wasn't enough evidence to secure a prosecution  versus there was some evidence of DV.

Again custody of children in family courts is focused on the best interests of the children.

I won't go to another Derry match if he is manager.

"An All-Ireland with Rory Gallagher as manager under these circumstances is not worth an All-Ireland in my eyes.

Gary Coleman played for a decade with Derry and his father was the great Eamonn Coleman, the man who delivered Derry their only All-Ireland success. He won an All Star in 1993, playing the position of left half back.

Coleman had much more to say on the matter and you can read the full interview with him here.

Joe Brolly wrote in his Sunday Independent column last year that his Derry teammates from 1998 planned to boycott the jubilee ceremony ahead of the 2023 Ulster final if Gallagher was on the sideline.

It will be interesting to see if any former Derry players will join Coleman in taking this public stance over the next few days.




https://t.co/H0vc9AmDXT

I'd rather trust my nose than anything the 'system' says in the North.

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 17, 2024, 03:56:42 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on August 17, 2024, 03:23:03 PM

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on August 17, 2024, 02:35:04 PMI'll say as a Derry man I have huge reservations on him coming back but just to change the subject slightly, are Fermanagh and Donegal Gaa not getting off a bit light on this if it was common knowledge. People queuing up to get digs in at Derry

Fair enough question. Why arenr clonduff getting the samw questions considering they willingly took him after the alleged allegations

I think it's Corduff you're looking for.....and I'm not sure people could think less of them if they put the devil himself in as manager.

Lol you are correct. I have the worst phone in the world for autocorrect, hence the spelling mistakes

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

He also got Fermanagh to an Ulster final. There aren't many managers in the country that could do that.

Baker got Antrim to one. Worth a look?

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 17, 2024, 08:37:15 PMBaker got Antrim to one. Worth a look?

It wasn't RG's only achievement

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 12:53:42 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 11:57:42 AMThe 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Is it? because we know there's been public law proceedings and a finding of fact in his favour.

What were these proceedings?

Quote from: onefineday on August 18, 2024, 08:01:32 AM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 12:53:42 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 11:57:42 AMThe 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Is it? because we know there's been public law proceedings and a finding of fact in his favour.

What were these proceedings?

The family ones referred to in his statement

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

In a purely footballing sense I don't like the guy. Don't like his antics. Never liked him as a player either but he is a good manager and would make Derry, or whoever, better

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 01:32:43 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

In a purely footballing sense I don't like the guy. Don't like his antics. Never liked him as a player either but he is a good manager and would make Derry, or whoever, better

He didn't make Donegal better when returned as manager in 2015.  Ulster final defeats to Monaghan,Tyrone in 2015,16 and beaten by a bit to spare in the All Ireland quarter finals by Mayo,Dublin. His last year in charge lost by 11 points to Tyrone in Ulster and knocked out of the championship in the Qualifiers by 15-point margin to Galway.

Main improvement he brought to Derry that made them better was getting players to buy into the county scene again, the fact they allowed themselves to drop to Division four showed where the mindset was and players was more focused with their club teams than the county team at the time.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 03:23:01 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 01:32:43 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

In a purely footballing sense I don't like the guy. Don't like his antics. Never liked him as a player either but he is a good manager and would make Derry, or whoever, better

He didn't make Donegal better when returned as manager in 2015.  Ulster final defeats to Monaghan,Tyrone in 2015,16 and beaten by a bit to spare in the All Ireland quarter finals by Mayo,Dublin. His last year in charge lost by 11 points to Tyrone in Ulster and knocked out of the championship in the Qualifiers by 15-point margin to Galway.

Main improvement he brought to Derry that made them better was getting players to buy into the county scene again, the fact they allowed themselves to drop to Division four showed where the mindset was and players was more focused with their club teams than the county team at the time.

So you agree he made Derry better. Good stuff. And he would do again.

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 04:01:54 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 03:23:01 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 01:32:43 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

In a purely footballing sense I don't like the guy. Don't like his antics. Never liked him as a player either but he is a good manager and would make Derry, or whoever, better

He didn't make Donegal better when returned as manager in 2015.  Ulster final defeats to Monaghan,Tyrone in 2015,16 and beaten by a bit to spare in the All Ireland quarter finals by Mayo,Dublin. His last year in charge lost by 11 points to Tyrone in Ulster and knocked out of the championship in the Qualifiers by 15-point margin to Galway.

Main improvement he brought to Derry that made them better was getting players to buy into the county scene again, the fact they allowed themselves to drop to Division four showed where the mindset was and players was more focused with their club teams than the county team at the time.

So you agree he made Derry better. Good stuff. And he would do again.

As I have outlined he didn't make "whoever better" in the past and no guarantee he will if returns as Derry manager.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 04:07:24 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 04:01:54 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 03:23:01 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 01:32:43 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

In a purely footballing sense I don't like the guy. Don't like his antics. Never liked him as a player either but he is a good manager and would make Derry, or whoever, better

He didn't make Donegal better when returned as manager in 2015.  Ulster final defeats to Monaghan,Tyrone in 2015,16 and beaten by a bit to spare in the All Ireland quarter finals by Mayo,Dublin. His last year in charge lost by 11 points to Tyrone in Ulster and knocked out of the championship in the Qualifiers by 15-point margin to Galway.

Main improvement he brought to Derry that made them better was getting players to buy into the county scene again, the fact they allowed themselves to drop to Division four showed where the mindset was and players was more focused with their club teams than the county team at the time.

So you agree he made Derry better. Good stuff. And he would do again.

As I have outlined he didn't make "whoever better" in the past and no guarantee he will if returns as Derry manager.

And I never said anything about the past so that's irrelevant. The man has obviously improved as a manager. But maybe you're right. I guess we will see if and when he does get the job

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 04:09:07 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 04:07:24 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 04:01:54 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 03:23:01 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 01:32:43 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

In a purely footballing sense I don't like the guy. Don't like his antics. Never liked him as a player either but he is a good manager and would make Derry, or whoever, better

He didn't make Donegal better when returned as manager in 2015.  Ulster final defeats to Monaghan,Tyrone in 2015,16 and beaten by a bit to spare in the All Ireland quarter finals by Mayo,Dublin. His last year in charge lost by 11 points to Tyrone in Ulster and knocked out of the championship in the Qualifiers by 15-point margin to Galway.

Main improvement he brought to Derry that made them better was getting players to buy into the county scene again, the fact they allowed themselves to drop to Division four showed where the mindset was and players was more focused with their club teams than the county team at the time.

So you agree he made Derry better. Good stuff. And he would do again.

As I have outlined he didn't make "whoever better" in the past and no guarantee he will if returns as Derry manager.

And I never said anything about the past so that's irrelevant. The man has obviously improved as a manager. But maybe you're right. I guess we will see if and when he does get the job

Past irrelevant? Derry county board if they bring him back will be mainly due to what was done in the past..

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 04:37:43 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 04:09:07 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 04:07:24 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 04:01:54 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 18, 2024, 03:23:01 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2024, 01:32:43 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on August 17, 2024, 04:04:35 PMOn his managerial ability, always thought he was just a generic assistant to McGuiness but the improvement he made with Derry was astronomical and they were still progressing under his watch. So from a selfish, anti-Derry POV, I was glad he went as they haven't been the same without him. That's my reason for hoping he isn't reinstated.

In a purely footballing sense I don't like the guy. Don't like his antics. Never liked him as a player either but he is a good manager and would make Derry, or whoever, better

He didn't make Donegal better when returned as manager in 2015.  Ulster final defeats to Monaghan,Tyrone in 2015,16 and beaten by a bit to spare in the All Ireland quarter finals by Mayo,Dublin. His last year in charge lost by 11 points to Tyrone in Ulster and knocked out of the championship in the Qualifiers by 15-point margin to Galway.

Main improvement he brought to Derry that made them better was getting players to buy into the county scene again, the fact they allowed themselves to drop to Division four showed where the mindset was and players was more focused with their club teams than the county team at the time.

So you agree he made Derry better. Good stuff. And he would do again.

As I have outlined he didn't make "whoever better" in the past and no guarantee he will if returns as Derry manager.

And I never said anything about the past so that's irrelevant. The man has obviously improved as a manager. But maybe you're right. I guess we will see if and when he does get the job

Past irrelevant? Derry county board if they bring him back will be mainly due to what was done in the past..

Fair point haha. The Donegal part wa irrelevant to my post. As I said, he has clearly improved as a manager. Let's see what happens. He could come back and be very poor or he could take Derry back up. If he gets the job that is

See RG pictured along the sideline for Corduff this weekend. Not much protest outside the ground there nor a social media pile on. Not high profile enough to give some people the attention they are looking.

Quote from: David McKeown on August 18, 2024, 12:46:00 PM

Quote from: onefineday on August 18, 2024, 08:01:32 AM

Quote from: David McKeown on August 16, 2024, 12:53:42 PM

Quote from: Keyser soze on August 16, 2024, 11:57:42 AMThe 'he hasn't been charged or convicted in court' argument is a bit like saying Al Capone was a well known tax dodger. 

Is it? because we know there's been public law proceedings and a finding of fact in his favour.

What were these proceedings?

The family ones referred to in his statement

Thanks.

There is no doubt he made an absolutely massive impact on Derry football, he built on the underage work of the past decade and the fortune of getting glass back, but he pulled it all together. From a footballing p.o.v I'd love him back, but I'd agree with others, while there is still doubt and questions hanging over him, it just isn't worth it.

To put those questions to bed, I'd like to hear that he was charged, tried and acquited or to hear gardai or psni state that they have investigated allegations and are satisfied there is no case to answer.

I don't know if authorities can or would provide such statements, but the statements by the PPS in may of last year certainly do not allay my concerns.

A PSNI spokeswoman confirmed police "investigated a number of reported incidents" and files were submitted to the PPS."

"a PPS spokesperson said it received two investigation files from the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) in January and June 2022.

All the available evidence in these two files was considered in line with the PPS Code for Prosecutors.

"It was determined that there was insufficient evidence to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction for any offence in relation to any individual.

"Decisions not to prosecute any individual issued in January 2022 and September 2022."

Gallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

So do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

There are probably many living individuals from Doire who would not endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager as the comments on this discussion board show.
Ultimately it is for the County Board to appoint a manager and they may or may not appoint RG. If they do you can direct your ire at them. I would however say that the manager of a GAA team be they high profile or not should not be regarded as some sort of moral leader, nor their appointment to that position as condoning everything they have or allegedly have done in the past.
He would be training 15 blokes to run round after a ball, we do not have to look up to him follow his path or admire his previous actions if he managed Doire.

Quote from: GTP on August 19, 2024, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

There are probably many living individuals from Doire who would not endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager as the comments on this discussion board show.
Ultimately it is for the County Board to appoint a manager and they may or may not appoint RG. If they do you can direct your ire at them. I would however say that the manager of a GAA team be they high profile or not should not be regarded as some sort of moral leader, nor their appointment to that position as condoning everything they have or allegedly have done in the past.
He would be training 15 blokes to run round after a ball, we do not have to look up to him follow his path or admire his previous actions if he managed Doire.

I'd like to think you'd be holding our organisation to much more than that.

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

hands off haha

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 19, 2024, 01:11:33 PM

Quote from: GTP on August 19, 2024, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

There are probably many living individuals from Doire who would not endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager as the comments on this discussion board show.
Ultimately it is for the County Board to appoint a manager and they may or may not appoint RG. If they do you can direct your ire at them. I would however say that the manager of a GAA team be they high profile or not should not be regarded as some sort of moral leader, nor their appointment to that position as condoning everything they have or allegedly have done in the past.
He would be training 15 blokes to run round after a ball, we do not have to look up to him follow his path or admire his previous actions if he managed Doire.

I'd like to think you'd be holding our organisation to much more than that.

It is one person in a very big organisation and that person's responsibilities is to train 30-40 men to play football. The Derry Senior football manager has never represented my social or moral values in any way and never will.
The influence any Derry mens senior football manager will have on Derry ladies' footballers or Derry camogie players is minimal and their opinion on who that manager is, and their past is likely to be a complete unknown to posters contributing on here. Yet their hypothetical boycotts and the opinion of those mentioned above which cannot possibly be known is being used to criticise Derry GAA for a decision and appointment they have not even made. 
 

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

What would it matter what Seamus Heaney thought ffs

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

Don't think he is ready for that role yet. Will likely get it in the future but not sure he is a number 1.

Quote from: shawshank on August 19, 2024, 02:32:36 PM

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

What would it matter what Seamus Heaney thought ffs

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

Don't think he is ready for that role yet. Will likely get it in the future but not sure he is a number 1.

aye, who cares what respectable people would make of this situation (dead or alive)

I'd also back Gilligan. Has been around All-Ireland winning set ups at club and county, knows what it takes and has worked with some great managers.

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

Did you miss the whole of the 2023 season ? Along with Dublin, the best attacking team in the country

Like him or loathe him he is a great coach.

You wouldn't have him about the place though.

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 19, 2024, 01:11:33 PM

Quote from: GTP on August 19, 2024, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

There are probably many living individuals from Doire who would not endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager as the comments on this discussion board show.
Ultimately it is for the County Board to appoint a manager and they may or may not appoint RG. If they do you can direct your ire at them. I would however say that the manager of a GAA team be they high profile or not should not be regarded as some sort of moral leader, nor their appointment to that position as condoning everything they have or allegedly have done in the past.
He would be training 15 blokes to run round after a ball, we do not have to look up to him follow his path or admire his previous actions if he managed Doire.

I'd like to think you'd be holding our organisation to much more than that.

We get it, you don't want Gallagher, but many do. You and your individual beliefs and ideals won't change that

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:23:55 PM

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

Did you miss the whole of the 2023 season ? Along with Dublin, the best attacking team in the country

He wasn't there for the whole of the 23 season . Gone before the Ulster final. Maybe it was Ciaran Meenagh who had the attacking nous.

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 04:40:22 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:23:55 PM

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

Did you miss the whole of the 2023 season ? Along with Dublin, the best attacking team in the country

He wasn't there for the whole of the 23 season . Gone before the Ulster final. Maybe it was Ciaran Meenagh who had the attacking nous.

Rodney, whether he was there for 85 or 90% of the season, it was his team, his tactics (bar Meenagh's defensive tactics) that had Derry flying in both defence and attack. Never missed a game, they were a joy to watch in attack. Fair enough if you don't like the fella, but you're talking jibberish here

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:33:55 PM

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 19, 2024, 01:11:33 PM

Quote from: GTP on August 19, 2024, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

There are probably many living individuals from Doire who would not endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager as the comments on this discussion board show.
Ultimately it is for the County Board to appoint a manager and they may or may not appoint RG. If they do you can direct your ire at them. I would however say that the manager of a GAA team be they high profile or not should not be regarded as some sort of moral leader, nor their appointment to that position as condoning everything they have or allegedly have done in the past.
He would be training 15 blokes to run round after a ball, we do not have to look up to him follow his path or admire his previous actions if he managed Doire.

I'd like to think you'd be holding our organisation to much more than that.

We get it, you don't want Gallagher, but many do. You and your individual beliefs and ideals won't change that

Mate, look at the poll on this post.

Look at the reaction across the board.

Extra ammunition for every other county and their supporters. I mind walking into Clones for 23 final and hearing the chants of Armagh supporters about Gallagher.

The fuss won't just blow over, it will be constant! A constant distraction, a constant annoyance and a permanent stain on Derry GAA.

For what? the slim chance of an All-Ireland?

I really struggle to understand the mentality of anyone who thinks this is a clever idea for the county.

Honestly, some people are like toddlers with a broken toy that can't understand their parents can't fix it! Move on.

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 19, 2024, 04:56:50 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:33:55 PM

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 19, 2024, 01:11:33 PM

Quote from: GTP on August 19, 2024, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

There are probably many living individuals from Doire who would not endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager as the comments on this discussion board show.
Ultimately it is for the County Board to appoint a manager and they may or may not appoint RG. If they do you can direct your ire at them. I would however say that the manager of a GAA team be they high profile or not should not be regarded as some sort of moral leader, nor their appointment to that position as condoning everything they have or allegedly have done in the past.
He would be training 15 blokes to run round after a ball, we do not have to look up to him follow his path or admire his previous actions if he managed Doire.

I'd like to think you'd be holding our organisation to much more than that.

We get it, you don't want Gallagher, but many do. You and your individual beliefs and ideals won't change that

Mate, look at the poll on this post.

Look at the reaction across the board.

Extra ammunition for every other county and their supporters. I mind walking into Clones for 23 final and hearing the chants of Armagh supporters about Gallagher.

The fuss won't just blow over, it will be constant! A constant distraction, a constant annoyance and a permanent stain on Derry GAA.

For what? the slim chance of an All-Ireland?

I really struggle to understand the mentality of anyone who thinks this is a clever idea for the county.

Honestly, some people are like toddlers with a broken toy that can't understand their parents can't fix it! Move on.

I couldn't give a hoot what a poll says, I've my thoughts on it, have put them up before, but, it's the same posters constantly commenting on it that gets on my goat.. We get it, you're better than those who would take him back.

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:51:27 PM

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 04:40:22 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:23:55 PM

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

Did you miss the whole of the 2023 season ? Along with Dublin, the best attacking team in the country

He wasn't there for the whole of the 23 season . Gone before the Ulster final. Maybe it was Ciaran Meenagh who had the attacking nous.

Rodney, whether he was there for 85 or 90% of the season, it was his team, his tactics (bar Meenagh's defensive tactics) that had Derry flying in both defence and attack. Never missed a game, they were a joy to watch in attack. Fair enough if you don't like the fella, but you're talking jibberish here

Agreed, he's a brilliant innovator and the most inventive attacking coach around. There were many twitter experts analysing his attacking ideas last year and a number of counties used some of those ideas this year. On a football sense nobody else comes even close to his tactical awareness but he also got the team to gel as a tight knit group. That was disrupted for a year so it might be very hard to get that togetherness and spirit rekindled. Most of Derrys rivals would hate to see RG back as you can see from the comments here. That purely comes from being worried about Derry getting back up to 2023 levels. Personally I think we should go for MOR and just allow him to finish his season out with Glen.

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 05:03:48 PM

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 19, 2024, 04:56:50 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:33:55 PM

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 19, 2024, 01:11:33 PM

Quote from: GTP on August 19, 2024, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

There are probably many living individuals from Doire who would not endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager as the comments on this discussion board show.
Ultimately it is for the County Board to appoint a manager and they may or may not appoint RG. If they do you can direct your ire at them. I would however say that the manager of a GAA team be they high profile or not should not be regarded as some sort of moral leader, nor their appointment to that position as condoning everything they have or allegedly have done in the past.
He would be training 15 blokes to run round after a ball, we do not have to look up to him follow his path or admire his previous actions if he managed Doire.

I'd like to think you'd be holding our organisation to much more than that.

We get it, you don't want Gallagher, but many do. You and your individual beliefs and ideals won't change that

Mate, look at the poll on this post.

Look at the reaction across the board.

Extra ammunition for every other county and their supporters. I mind walking into Clones for 23 final and hearing the chants of Armagh supporters about Gallagher.

The fuss won't just blow over, it will be constant! A constant distraction, a constant annoyance and a permanent stain on Derry GAA.

For what? the slim chance of an All-Ireland?

I really struggle to understand the mentality of anyone who thinks this is a clever idea for the county.

Honestly, some people are like toddlers with a broken toy that can't understand their parents can't fix it! Move on.

I couldn't give a hoot what a poll says, I've my thoughts on it, have put them up before, but, it's the same posters constantly commenting on it that gets on my goat.. We get it, you're better than those who would take him back.

Right enough, just the same way it's the same minority advocating for something that will harm the county.

He was on the line for Corduff last night... I think I've missed the outrage over that?? Can't see it anywhere for some reason!

Quote from: lenny on August 19, 2024, 05:05:25 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:51:27 PM

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 04:40:22 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on August 19, 2024, 04:23:55 PM

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

Did you miss the whole of the 2023 season ? Along with Dublin, the best attacking team in the country

He wasn't there for the whole of the 23 season . Gone before the Ulster final. Maybe it was Ciaran Meenagh who had the attacking nous.

Rodney, whether he was there for 85 or 90% of the season, it was his team, his tactics (bar Meenagh's defensive tactics) that had Derry flying in both defence and attack. Never missed a game, they were a joy to watch in attack. Fair enough if you don't like the fella, but you're talking jibberish here

Agreed, he's a brilliant innovator and the most inventive attacking coach around. There were many twitter experts analysing his attacking ideas last year and a number of counties used some of those ideas this year. On a football sense nobody else comes even close to his tactical awareness but he also got the team to gel as a tight knit group. That was disrupted for a year so it might be very hard to get that togetherness and spirit rekindled. Most of Derrys rivals would hate to see RG back as you can see from the comments here. That purely comes from being worried about Derry getting back up to 2023 levels. Personally I think we should go for MOR and just allow him to finish his season out with Glen.

That would be the more logical appointment, yes he may be joining Derry late if Glenn have another long year but for Derry what matters next year is progressing/improving in the championship and getting relegated to Div 2 matters less now with the last two All Ireland winners having played their spring football in Div 2.

MOR agreeing to Derry would solve sooooo many problems. Just seems unlikely as little or no noise about it

Quote from: screenexile on August 19, 2024, 09:11:30 PMHe was on the line for Corduff last night... I think I've missed the outrage over that?? Can't see it anywhere for some reason!

https://x.com/TheJMacPodcast/status/1825266390292434998

https://x.com/Score_Beo/status/1700827330552156420

https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111342?County=National&PageNumber=215&TopicID=111342

https://x.com/thegaeliccorner/status/1700827246217383969

https://www.sundayworld.com/sport/gaa/ladies-gaa-team-raised-concerns-over-rory-gallaghers-return-to-coaching/a940120295.html

If the people of Corduff are happy to have them so be it, that says a lot about them. He can stay there.

Quote from: LoughNeagh on August 19, 2024, 10:04:32 PM

Quote from: screenexile on August 19, 2024, 09:11:30 PMHe was on the line for Corduff last night... I think I've missed the outrage over that?? Can't see it anywhere for some reason!

https://x.com/TheJMacPodcast/status/1825266390292434998

https://x.com/Score_Beo/status/1700827330552156420

https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111342?County=National&PageNumber=215&TopicID=111342

https://x.com/thegaeliccorner/status/1700827246217383969

https://www.sundayworld.com/sport/gaa/ladies-gaa-team-raised-concerns-over-rory-gallaghers-return-to-coaching/a940120295.html

If the people of Corduff are happy to have them so be it, that says a lot about them. He can stay there.

Was this Corduff:

https://x.com/Score_Beo/status/1711069690041118957/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1711069690041118957&currentTweetUser=Score_Beo

Quote from: screenexile on August 19, 2024, 09:11:30 PMHe was on the line for Corduff last night... I think I've missed the outrage over that?? Can't see it anywhere for some reason!

That's an inconvenient truth I pointed out last night. If these people who are going to be protesting etc feel so strongly about it why aren't they protesting in Monaghan.

Wasn't going to comment as think Armagh, Tyrone and Antrim have enough skeletons in the closet of our own. Antrim have their own RG situation with an older representative but not a peep about it. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

What i will say that regardless of what type of person he is, some contributors on here have him as this footballing visionary.  His tactics were the worst type of negative tripe and frankly horrible to watch.

The derry kerry game under ciaran meenagh was a completely different approach, more expansive and credit has to be given to ciaran for that.

Just be careful what you wish for. 

I consider all the fuss virtue signaling. They talk about setting a good example yet they don't have a problem with McFaul representing Derry? I bet there are many ex paramilitary members in Derry GAA yet I bet you wouldn't have a problem with that? In fact the Intermediate championship is named after IRA volunteers. I am not saying I have a problem with that myself but it is important to point out your hypocrisy. Do you support violence or not? Make up your minds.

I am not convinced having Gallagher back would make a difference, people have short memories, his last big Croke Park games were a hammering against Dublin in Division 2 final and a poor performance against Galway. He had his chance in 2022.

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on August 19, 2024, 10:20:58 PM

Quote from: screenexile on August 19, 2024, 09:11:30 PMHe was on the line for Corduff last night... I think I've missed the outrage over that?? Can't see it anywhere for some reason!

That's an inconvenient truth I pointed out last night. If these people who are going to be protesting etc feel so strongly about it why aren't they protesting in Monaghan.

Maybe because it's a lot less high profile?

Quote from: Spike on August 19, 2024, 11:28:41 PMWasn't going to comment as think Armagh, Tyrone and Antrim have enough skeletons in the closet of our own. Antrim have their own RG situation with an older representative but not a peep about it. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

What i will say that regardless of what type of person he is, some contributors on here have him as this footballing visionary.  His tactics were the worst type of negative tripe and frankly horrible to watch.

The derry kerry game under ciaran meenagh was a completely different approach, more expansive and credit has to be given to ciaran for that.

Just be careful what you wish for.

Again, jibberish. You're making things up to suit your own feelings on the man. Ridiculous

Quote from: JoG2 on August 20, 2024, 08:32:53 AM

Quote from: Spike on August 19, 2024, 11:28:41 PMWasn't going to comment as think Armagh, Tyrone and Antrim have enough skeletons in the closet of our own. Antrim have their own RG situation with an older representative but not a peep about it. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

What i will say that regardless of what type of person he is, some contributors on here have him as this footballing visionary.  His tactics were the worst type of negative tripe and frankly horrible to watch.

The derry kerry game under ciaran meenagh was a completely different approach, more expansive and credit has to be given to ciaran for that.

Just be careful what you wish for.

Again, jibberish. You're making things up to suit your own feelings on the man. Ridiculous

Off topic a bit but there's some waffle on here about tactics and vision in terms of mangers etc.

The only mnager who changed up football was Jim Mc Guinness.

Other managers since have just copied and mirrored that tactic of 15 men behind the ball when out of possession.

It's glorified basketball.

By the chat on here you'd think managers have invented the wheel. 

Quote from: Norm-Peterson on August 20, 2024, 02:49:13 AMI consider all the fuss virtue signaling. They talk about setting a good example yet they don't have a problem with McFaul representing Derry? I bet there are many ex paramilitary members in Derry GAA yet I bet you wouldn't have a problem with that? In fact the Intermediate championship is named after IRA volunteers. I am not saying I have a problem with that myself but it is important to point out your hypocrisy. Do you support violence or not? Make up your minds.

I am not convinced having Gallagher back would make a difference, people have short memories, his last big Croke Park games were a hammering against Dublin in Division 2 final and a poor performance against Galway. He had his chance in 2022.

I'd agree with a lot of this and have said similar before.
In this case it is alleged violence, no findings of guilt. There are many instances in the gaa of convicted players, management etc being involved in the organisation.
If we're making an example of someone now, it needs to be at HQ level with a set of regs as to who is and who is not eligible to be involved. Maybe that already exists?

Some people saying MOR would solve the problem, and I dont think there'd be many complaints if he got the role. But it just doesn't seem like he's interested. He'd know the players well and he's used to the Derry setup in terms of league/championship, he's a proven intercounty manager too and ticks all the boxes. But if he's not interested, there's nothing can be done about that.

In purely footballing terms RG is the best manager Derry have had in a very long time. In purely footballing terms, and not to be hypocritical about who can or should be involved with the county team, I'd have no issue with him being appointed. I agree though, having RG back is no guarantee of anything - Derry might have missed their opportunity.


Personally I'm not going to judge anyone without factually knowing details - and the only details I know are what was reported by the press. Not enough there to say with any certainty what did or did not happen in my opinion. But I appreciate others are led more by social media and word on the street. I just don't buy into the online "experts" who "know".

I've said before too, if guilty of the alleged claims, then prison is where he should be.

Quote from: marty34 on August 20, 2024, 08:38:54 AM

Quote from: JoG2 on August 20, 2024, 08:32:53 AM

Quote from: Spike on August 19, 2024, 11:28:41 PMWasn't going to comment as think Armagh, Tyrone and Antrim have enough skeletons in the closet of our own. Antrim have their own RG situation with an older representative but not a peep about it. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

What i will say that regardless of what type of person he is, some contributors on here have him as this footballing visionary.  His tactics were the worst type of negative tripe and frankly horrible to watch.

The derry kerry game under ciaran meenagh was a completely different approach, more expansive and credit has to be given to ciaran for that.

Just be careful what you wish for.

Again, jibberish. You're making things up to suit your own feelings on the man. Ridiculous

Off topic a bit but there's some waffle on here about tactics and vision in terms of mangers etc.

The only mnager who changed up football was Jim Mc Guinness.

Other managers since have just copied and mirrored that tactic of 15 men behind the ball when out of possession.

It's glorified basketball.

By the chat on here you'd think managers have invented the wheel. 

You're a bit all over the shop here Marty, you talk about posters talking about tactics, which many are, then go say posters are saying managers have invented the wheel... That's some jump

The basketball bit is good. Derry under RG had morphed into a seriously fast attacking team, only Dublin could better them in this department and they were improving all the time.

Quote from: Norm-Peterson on August 20, 2024, 02:49:13 AMI am not convinced having Gallagher back would make a difference, people have short memories, his last big Croke Park games were a hammering against Dublin in Division 2 final and a poor performance against Galway. He had his chance in 2022.

I've a longer memory Norm, 1998 - 2022

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 20, 2024, 07:42:08 AM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on August 19, 2024, 10:20:58 PM

Quote from: screenexile on August 19, 2024, 09:11:30 PMHe was on the line for Corduff last night... I think I've missed the outrage over that?? Can't see it anywhere for some reason!

That's an inconvenient truth I pointed out last night. If these people who are going to be protesting etc feel so strongly about it why aren't they protesting in Monaghan.

Maybe because it's a lot less high profile?

So out of sight out of mind - eh? Not sure how those so vocal about him potentially returning to Derry can square that one. Maybe it's not high profile enough for them to take any interest as it doesn't bolster their own ego or attempts at virtue signalling. 

There was unrest but a lot of power from the Banty swayed it. He is the manager and 3 or 4 sons playing. His brother Pat is a selector.

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 20, 2024, 02:39:43 PMThere was unrest but a lot of power from the Banty swayed it. He is the manager and 3 or 4 sons playing. His brother Pat is a selector.

What's the odds of RG and Banty racking up as Monaghan managers?

Quote from: Truthsayer on August 20, 2024, 02:33:03 PM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on August 20, 2024, 02:27:05 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 20, 2024, 07:42:08 AM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on August 19, 2024, 10:20:58 PM

Quote from: screenexile on August 19, 2024, 09:11:30 PMHe was on the line for Corduff last night... I think I've missed the outrage over that?? Can't see it anywhere for some reason!

That's an inconvenient truth I pointed out last night. If these people who are going to be protesting etc feel so strongly about it why aren't they protesting in Monaghan.

Maybe because it's a lot less high profile?

So out of sight out of mind - eh? Not sure how those so vocal about him potentially returning to Derry can square that one. Maybe it's not high profile enough for them to take any interest as it doesn't bolster their own ego or attempts at virtue signalling. 

I believe there was unrest in Corduff bout it but a wealthy donor threatened to withdraw his support... they say.

I'm more talking about protests from all the keyboard warriors across all social media platforms and indeed this very board. Not much noise on him being called out at Corduff until he was back in the running for the Derry job. And all these people that at going to turn up protesting at Derry games if he gets the job. Do they need directions to get to Corduff or does it only count when it gets to county level?

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on August 20, 2024, 02:27:05 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on August 20, 2024, 07:42:08 AM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on August 19, 2024, 10:20:58 PM

Quote from: screenexile on August 19, 2024, 09:11:30 PMHe was on the line for Corduff last night... I think I've missed the outrage over that?? Can't see it anywhere for some reason!

That's an inconvenient truth I pointed out last night. If these people who are going to be protesting etc feel so strongly about it why aren't they protesting in Monaghan.

Maybe because it's a lot less high profile?

So out of sight out of mind - eh? Not sure how those so vocal about him potentially returning to Derry can square that one. Maybe it's not high profile enough for them to take any interest as it doesn't bolster their own ego or attempts at virtue signalling. 

people in derry who may protest - and I stress may  - probably not aware of what os going on in the club scene in Monaghan though

Paddy Jackson was able to go and play professionally in France.
Yet, there was no chance of a return to Ulster or Ireland. Even London Irish proved troublesome.
He was also found not guilty.

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 20, 2024, 02:39:43 PMThere was unrest but a lot of power from the Banty swayed it. He is the manager and 3 or 4 sons playing. His brother Pat is a selector.

What league in Monaghan are Corduff in?

Quote from: marty34 on August 20, 2024, 02:58:28 PM

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 20, 2024, 02:39:43 PMThere was unrest but a lot of power from the Banty swayed it. He is the manager and 3 or 4 sons playing. His brother Pat is a selector.

What league in Monaghan are Corduff in?

I take it they're senior they won the Intermediate championship two years ago #hail #hail

Truthsayer seems to be very definite as who will NOT become Derry's  new football manager. By the same token who does he think will become the manager?

Quote from: shawshank on August 19, 2024, 02:32:36 PM

Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on August 19, 2024, 12:37:08 AMSo do you really think Eamonn Coleman,Patsy Breen, Jim McKeever and Seamus Heaney would endorse the appointment of Rory Gallagher as Doire manager??

What would it matter what Seamus Heaney thought ffs

Quote from: rodney trotter on August 19, 2024, 12:26:43 AMGallagher is quite a defensive manager. He got Derry competitive to a point,but in that All Ireland semi against Galway they looked clueless.

Would Conleith Gilligan not be a good fit for Derry?

Don't think he is ready for that role yet. Will likely get it in the future but not sure he is a number 1.

Asked the same question on the All Ireland final thread and no one could answer, what does CG actually bring to the set up?

Quote from: Truthsayer on August 20, 2024, 01:59:49 PMRory Gallagher will not be taking Derry. That's it.

I agree.

Since 30th June they've been plotting it. Nominations closed on 25th July. Yet here we are. When will the penny finally drop that this appointment is impossible

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 20, 2024, 02:56:44 PMPaddy Jackson was able to go and play professionally in France.
Yet, there was no chance of a return to Ulster or Ireland. Even London Irish proved troublesome.
He was also found not guilty.

I can see why some make the comparison, but it's not the same scenario.
The Paddy Jackson case went to court when investigated - and the facts of the case were public record as a result. From memory, he didn't dispute what happened, only that it was consensual whereas the victim said it was not. 

The facts of the RG allegations are not public record as far as I'm aware, and the same public authorities have not seen fit to prosecute.

Whatever about the rights and wrongs in both cases, I don't think the fallout from the Paddy Jackson case should be a template for what happens in this RG case.

Tyronies should worry who there manager is,instead of polluting the Derry Thread. It might be O'Rourke, it might be Gallagher,who knows. M McGuinness admitted he was in the IRA and u all have voted for him in the morning, no matter the background.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 20, 2024, 09:37:35 PMTyronies should worry who there manager is,instead of polluting the Derry Thread. It might be O'Rourke, it might be Gallagher,who knows. M McGuinness admitted he was in the IRA and u all have voted for him in the morning, no matter the background.

(https://i.ibb.co/YDbCTCV/69092800-2768044556563306-6265658979016245248-n.jpg)

Tyrone bound

Quote from: JoG2 on August 21, 2024, 07:46:06 AMTyrone bound

O'Rourke or Gallagher?

Quote from: JoG2 on August 21, 2024, 07:46:06 AMTyrone bound

Hard to go from Corduff to Owenbeg without traveling through Tyrone.

Just be careful what you wish for.
[/quote]

Again, jibberish. You're making things up to suit your own feelings on the man. Ridiculous
[/quote]


Hard to argue with that systematic breakdown of argument and analysis given in your reposte. 

But regardless it won't make his McGuinness 2012 lite any more attractive to watch.

Quote from: RedHand88 on August 21, 2024, 08:43:04 AM

Quote from: JoG2 on August 21, 2024, 07:46:06 AMTyrone bound

Hard to go from Corduff to Owenbeg without traveling through Tyrone.

 ;D indeed

Quote from: Spike on August 21, 2024, 10:47:40 AMJust be careful what you wish for.

Again, jibberish. You're making things up to suit your own feelings on the man. Ridiculous
[/quote]


Hard to argue with that systematic breakdown of argument and analysis given in your reposte. 

But regardless it won't make his McGuinness 2012 lite any more attractive to watch.
[/quote]

Tell me you didn't watch Derry without telling me you didn't watch Derry. Derry's attacking system was in serious health right up until Portu, I mean the Donegal game. It was rightfully lauded. But, call it as you see it, which is jibberish

Wasn't that attacking football that under the much maligned Micky Harte?  Jibberish is the right word alright.

Are people actually blaming the holiday as the reason for the change in fortunes?

Mickey Moran busy?

Quote from: LoughNeagh on September 23, 2024, 10:57:16 AMMickey Moran busy?

V doubtful

Has anyone managed their own county 4 times before?

Mark Doran it seems

Looks like Chrissy has a lot of influence. Behind Hartes appointment as well. We have coaches in our own county as capable at this fella.

Mark Doran, he not just a trainer? I went with Gallagher and just took the flak. Who did the Derry clubs put forward, saying they had a say in the selection process?. Sure Derry little support when we were in Div 3/4, be heading back that direction by the looks of it.

Quote from: Rawhide on September 23, 2024, 01:36:11 PMLooks like Chrissy has a lot of influence. Behind Hartes appointment as well. We have coaches in our own county as capable at this fella.

Who?

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 23, 2024, 01:50:06 PMMark Doran, he not just a trainer? I went with Gallagher and just took the flak. Who did the Derry clubs put forward, saying they had a say in the selection process?. Sure Derry little support when we were in Div 3/4, be heading back that direction by the looks of it.

Is he not managing Slaughtneil atm?

Derry clubs, well the majority went with Gallagher

Maybe give the man and his team (if this does transpire) a chance before writing them off sure

Well that was sort of my position on Meenagh, give him a year to see how he goes. I thought originally he wasn't offered the chance. But apparently he was asked before Harte.

Mark Doran, He'll do grand. Give him a chance.

Monaghan or more worrying Westmeath  weren't impressed enough to give him the job. Though that's not to say he won't be perfect fit. But it's fairly obvious he was nowhere near the list of candidates a few months ago.

quote author=LoughNeagh link=msg=2297752 date=1727104534]
Mark Doran, He'll do grand. Give him a chance.
[/quote]

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 23, 2024, 04:14:56 PMWell that was sort of my position on Meenagh, give him a year to see how he goes. I thought originally he wasn't offered the chance. But apparently he was asked before Harte.

I heard he wasn't asked, hence why he went to Down. These old Chinese whispers are a bollocks.

Def asked.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 07, 2024, 04:23:53 PMDef asked.

https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/derry-gaa-have-no-plans-to-reappointed-rory-gallagher-to-county-management-team-JCPVQTSNCBCFBNG3JO64D3WEQQ/

Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2024, 04:25:46 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 07, 2024, 04:23:53 PMDef asked.

https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/derry-gaa-have-no-plans-to-reappointed-rory-gallagher-to-county-management-team-JCPVQTSNCBCFBNG3JO64D3WEQQ/

Derry Had meeting tonight. highly likely they'll not take him back?

But the amount of people who've turned it down is crazy.

I would give him the job cause he'll take no shite and he might actually yet again have a chance of winning something with them but that's my opinion 🤷🏻�♂️

It's a rock and a hard place now for Derry.  The will they/ won't they regarding Gallagher is just making it harder- the longer the process,  the more difficult and unappealing it becomes, the more the scrutiny is magnified,  and the shadow of Gallagher will be hanging over the whole time.
It just seems bizarre, given the player resources which would be far ahead of the vast majority of counties.

Quote from: Substandard on November 08, 2024, 12:57:55 AMIt's a rock and a hard place now for Derry.  The will they/ won't they regarding Gallagher is just making it harder- the longer the process,  the more difficult and unappealing it becomes, the more the scrutiny is magnified,  and the shadow of Gallagher will be hanging over the whole time.
It just seems bizarre, given the player resources which would be far ahead of the vast majority of counties.

Am I right in thinking he hasn't been prosecuted or convicted of anything?

Has full custody (as I understand it) of his children.....rare as hen's teeth that a man gets that.

Yet we have all-stars with serious violent convictions playing away and winning awards.

Let him manage away, the noise will die down in days

Quote from: Gold on November 08, 2024, 05:39:21 AM

Quote from: Substandard on November 08, 2024, 12:57:55 AMIt's a rock and a hard place now for Derry.  The will they/ won't they regarding Gallagher is just making it harder- the longer the process,  the more difficult and unappealing it becomes, the more the scrutiny is magnified,  and the shadow of Gallagher will be hanging over the whole time.
It just seems bizarre, given the player resources which would be far ahead of the vast majority of counties.

Am I right in thinking he hasn't been prosecuted or convicted of anything?

Has full custody (as I understand it) of his children.....rare as hen's teeth that a man gets that.

Yet we have all-stars with serious violent convictions playing away and winning awards.

Let him manage away, the noise will die down in days

Agreed.

Quote from: Gold on November 08, 2024, 05:39:21 AM

Quote from: Substandard on November 08, 2024, 12:57:55 AMIt's a rock and a hard place now for Derry.  The will they/ won't they regarding Gallagher is just making it harder- the longer the process,  the more difficult and unappealing it becomes, the more the scrutiny is magnified,  and the shadow of Gallagher will be hanging over the whole time.
It just seems bizarre, given the player resources which would be far ahead of the vast majority of counties.

Am I right in thinking he hasn't been prosecuted or convicted of anything?

Has full custody (as I understand it) of his children.....rare as hen's teeth that a man gets that.

Yet we have all-stars with serious violent convictions playing away and winning awards.

Let him manage away, the noise will die down in days

I think he only has full custody because his ex wife has a drinking problem brought on by what he put her through.
No idea if it's true but I trust my source who said he was a victim of abuse in the past. Not that that excuses anything he's allegedly done but it would explain a few things.

Quote from: CookieMonster on November 08, 2024, 06:29:00 PM

Quote from: Gold on November 08, 2024, 05:39:21 AM

Quote from: Substandard on November 08, 2024, 12:57:55 AMIt's a rock and a hard place now for Derry.  The will they/ won't they regarding Gallagher is just making it harder- the longer the process,  the more difficult and unappealing it becomes, the more the scrutiny is magnified,  and the shadow of Gallagher will be hanging over the whole time.
It just seems bizarre, given the player resources which would be far ahead of the vast majority of counties.

Am I right in thinking he hasn't been prosecuted or convicted of anything?

Has full custody (as I understand it) of his children.....rare as hen's teeth that a man gets that.

Yet we have all-stars with serious violent convictions playing away and winning awards.

Let him manage away, the noise will die down in days

I think he only has full custody because his ex wife has a drinking problem brought on by what he put her through.
No idea if it's true but I trust my source who said he was a victim of abuse in the past. Not that that excuses anything he's allegedly done but it would explain a few things.

A very important point

Quote from: NotedObserver on November 08, 2024, 07:52:40 PM

Quote from: CookieMonster on November 08, 2024, 06:29:00 PM

Quote from: Gold on November 08, 2024, 05:39:21 AM

Quote from: Substandard on November 08, 2024, 12:57:55 AMIt's a rock and a hard place now for Derry.  The will they/ won't they regarding Gallagher is just making it harder- the longer the process,  the more difficult and unappealing it becomes, the more the scrutiny is magnified,  and the shadow of Gallagher will be hanging over the whole time.
It just seems bizarre, given the player resources which would be far ahead of the vast majority of counties.

Am I right in thinking he hasn't been prosecuted or convicted of anything?

Has full custody (as I understand it) of his children.....rare as hen's teeth that a man gets that.

Yet we have all-stars with serious violent convictions playing away and winning awards.

Let him manage away, the noise will die down in days

I think he only has full custody because his ex wife has a drinking problem brought on by what he put her through.
No idea if it's true but I trust my source who said he was a victim of abuse in the past. Not that that excuses anything he's allegedly done but it would explain a few things.

A very important point

There's no way of knowing why he has full custody but courts are very conservative and diligent in terms of investigating etc. They still make mistakes of course but speculation is exactly that.

Burns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Have to say I agree, no idea what he's playing at. RG is going to be hounded out of the GAA forever and a day by the looks of it. Will he have ever served his time in the eyes of the social media for his alleged actions?

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

He's already hinted at that

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Totally agree. RG is being black balled. The trial by social media is a disgrace. Burns wants to be the Mother Teresa of the Gaa when it suits him. Makes me wonder what he said to the Derry board when Muldoon and RG were getting lined up.

Think Burns has overstepped the mark here as well.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

I'm guessing you're talking bout people jailed during the Troubles here. Having a political record very different to domestic abuse (alleged in this case)..
although RG has not been convicted of anything so is no basis for whats happening to him... is hearsay.

Believe me, not jailed for a political record!

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 07:39:38 PMBelieve me, not jailed for a political record!

Ok... thought that's what you meant. My bad...

Oh political in that regard, but jailed shall we say for serious matters!

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them.....

Where are you seeing this? I haven't heard that anywhere yet?

Wonder if Burns will speak up if a certain former Armagh captain remains on the panel this season.

Quote from: OakLeaf on January 07, 2025, 07:55:49 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them.....

Where are you seeing this? I haven't heard that anywhere yet?

Has been widely reported on news sites and tweet from John Fogharty

Quote from: Truthsayer on January 07, 2025, 08:16:19 PM

Quote from: OakLeaf on January 07, 2025, 07:55:49 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them.....

Where are you seeing this? I haven't heard that anywhere yet?

Has been widely reported on news sites and tweet from John Fogharty

I really only follow rte, bbc and hoganstand. They each have an article, but no mention of the Burns intervention. What are the sites saying about Burns?

Quote from: Truthsayer on January 07, 2025, 08:16:19 PMHas been widely reported on news sites and tweet from John Fogharty

Ah OK, I can see it now on the Irish Independent site.

The GAA themselves said Gallagher was free to coach but Burns says otherwise ? Did he contact Clonduff last year ?

Quote from: Kidder81 on January 07, 2025, 09:33:08 PMThe GAA themselves said Gallagher was free to coach but Burns says otherwise ? Did he contact Clonduff last year ?

He's still with Clonduff this year

Quote from: toby47 on January 08, 2025, 09:05:50 AM

Quote from: Kidder81 on January 07, 2025, 09:33:08 PMThe GAA themselves said Gallagher was free to coach but Burns says otherwise ? Did he contact Clonduff last year ?

He's still with Clonduff this year

How many clubs is this grafter with i presume Banty still has him with Corduff aswell.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Agree with this.
He shouldn't have a say in who a club chooses in their management teams.

Listening to the radio (or wireless as my Da would say) yesterday, Gallagher was never even charged let alone been to court to be found "not guilty". He has also denied the allegations, according to the radio. Some of the commentary I've seen on here seem make a big deal about him not denying it - well according to the radio report I heard yesterday, I think on Radio Ulster, it seems he did.

Which makes this all the more ridiculous.
Allegations made against a man by his ex-wife. Man is investigated by authorities and not charged and has custody of his children.
However, the general public have him guilty as they "know" he did it.
Does this not sound absolutely bonkers?

Yet there are many people involved in GAA with criminal convictions for all sorts of crimes, but they are still involved. But that's ok somehow? Is Burns going to make it his mission to get rid of anyone from the GAA with any sort of allegations made against them? Then he'd have to follow through and get rid of members, participants with criminal records too surely? It's telling that he hasn't mentioned the incident within the Armagh camp too. What's his stance there? The fact that the GAA themselves could not maintain a ban on him coaching lends even more weight to this being something Burns should not have been doing.

I've said it before, if guilty I wouldn't have RG near the place and deserves prison time. There's no place for domestic abuse in society and should be deplored.
But we have to accept the findings of due process and treat as innocent, otherwise its just lynch mob justice.

The question I have for Naas is this. They are going for 5 in a row in Kildare and have the same manager on board this year. Surely they are good enough to have another successful year without the need to pay for Gallagher to come in, along with the negative publicity this would involve?

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 10:06:24 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Agree with this.
He shouldn't have a say in who a club chooses in their management teams.

Listening to the radio (or wireless as my Da would say) yesterday, Gallagher was never even charged let alone been to court to be found "not guilty". He has also denied the allegations, according to the radio. Some of the commentary I've seen on here seem make a big deal about him not denying it - well according to the radio report I heard yesterday, I think on Radio Ulster, it seems he did.

Which makes this all the more ridiculous.
Allegations made against a man by his ex-wife. Man is investigated by authorities and not charged and has custody of his children.
However, the general public have him guilty as they "know" he did it.
Does this not sound absolutely bonkers?

Yet there are many people involved in GAA with criminal convictions for all sorts of crimes, but they are still involved. But that's ok somehow? Is Burns going to make it his mission to get rid of anyone from the GAA with any sort of allegations made against them? Then he'd have to follow through and get rid of members, participants with criminal records too surely? It's telling that he hasn't mentioned the incident within the Armagh camp too. What's his stance there? The fact that the GAA themselves could not maintain a ban on him coaching lends even more weight to this being something Burns should not have been doing.

I've said it before, if guilty I wouldn't have RG near the place and deserves prison time. There's no place for domestic abuse in society and should be deplored.
But we have to accept the findings of due process and treat as innocent, otherwise its just lynch mob justice.

Nail on head, Burns overstepped and has opened a can of worms. seen on twitter under articles a lot of people making reference to Kyle Hayes being nominated for an all star yet was a ball hair away from jail for GBH. but that seems fine. Really double standards. also seems the higher the profile makes you fair game, doesnt sit right with me at all.

I dont know if RG publicly ever denied the accusations, but again, thats not the smoking gun people think it is. Id be sure his legal representatives told him to say nothing at all.

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 10:06:24 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Agree with this.
He shouldn't have a say in who a club chooses in their management teams.

Listening to the radio (or wireless as my Da would say) yesterday, Gallagher was never even charged let alone been to court to be found "not guilty". He has also denied the allegations, according to the radio. Some of the commentary I've seen on here seem make a big deal about him not denying it - well according to the radio report I heard yesterday, I think on Radio Ulster, it seems he did.

Which makes this all the more ridiculous.
Allegations made against a man by his ex-wife. Man is investigated by authorities and not charged and has custody of his children.
However, the general public have him guilty as they "know" he did it.
Does this not sound absolutely bonkers?

Yet there are many people involved in GAA with criminal convictions for all sorts of crimes, but they are still involved. But that's ok somehow? Is Burns going to make it his mission to get rid of anyone from the GAA with any sort of allegations made against them? Then he'd have to follow through and get rid of members, participants with criminal records too surely? It's telling that he hasn't mentioned the incident within the Armagh camp too. What's his stance there? The fact that the GAA themselves could not maintain a ban on him coaching lends even more weight to this being something Burns should not have been doing.

I've said it before, if guilty I wouldn't have RG near the place and deserves prison time. There's no place for domestic abuse in society and should be deplored.
But we have to accept the findings of due process and treat as innocent, otherwise its just lynch mob justice.

Would you quit with all that common sense. No place for that on social media!!

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 08, 2025, 10:28:49 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 10:06:24 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Agree with this.
He shouldn't have a say in who a club chooses in their management teams.

Listening to the radio (or wireless as my Da would say) yesterday, Gallagher was never even charged let alone been to court to be found "not guilty". He has also denied the allegations, according to the radio. Some of the commentary I've seen on here seem make a big deal about him not denying it - well according to the radio report I heard yesterday, I think on Radio Ulster, it seems he did.

Which makes this all the more ridiculous.
Allegations made against a man by his ex-wife. Man is investigated by authorities and not charged and has custody of his children.
However, the general public have him guilty as they "know" he did it.
Does this not sound absolutely bonkers?

Yet there are many people involved in GAA with criminal convictions for all sorts of crimes, but they are still involved. But that's ok somehow? Is Burns going to make it his mission to get rid of anyone from the GAA with any sort of allegations made against them? Then he'd have to follow through and get rid of members, participants with criminal records too surely? It's telling that he hasn't mentioned the incident within the Armagh camp too. What's his stance there? The fact that the GAA themselves could not maintain a ban on him coaching lends even more weight to this being something Burns should not have been doing.

I've said it before, if guilty I wouldn't have RG near the place and deserves prison time. There's no place for domestic abuse in society and should be deplored.
But we have to accept the findings of due process and treat as innocent, otherwise its just lynch mob justice.

Would you quit with all that common sense. No place for that on social media!!

Burns is president of the Organisation. As such he has to look big picture all the time.
Gallagher ( whilst not found guilty in a court) is toxic.
The optics are terrible, should he be in any high profile position.
Burns is looking out for the entire Organisation.
We ( ordinary members) have no ide of what goes on at the highest level.
For all we know o e of the big sponsors may have said they will pull their sponsorship.
Imagine for a second how that would play out.

On a personal level Burns may even have some syfor Gallagher ( as he has never been prosecuted never mind found guilty) but as president he always has to be aware of what is best( and equally important), looks best for the organisation.

Wouldn't take the gift of GAA president ( even with free All-Ireland tickets!)

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 08, 2025, 11:09:47 AM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 08, 2025, 10:28:49 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 10:06:24 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Agree with this.
He shouldn't have a say in who a club chooses in their management teams.

Listening to the radio (or wireless as my Da would say) yesterday, Gallagher was never even charged let alone been to court to be found "not guilty". He has also denied the allegations, according to the radio. Some of the commentary I've seen on here seem make a big deal about him not denying it - well according to the radio report I heard yesterday, I think on Radio Ulster, it seems he did.

Which makes this all the more ridiculous.
Allegations made against a man by his ex-wife. Man is investigated by authorities and not charged and has custody of his children.
However, the general public have him guilty as they "know" he did it.
Does this not sound absolutely bonkers?

Yet there are many people involved in GAA with criminal convictions for all sorts of crimes, but they are still involved. But that's ok somehow? Is Burns going to make it his mission to get rid of anyone from the GAA with any sort of allegations made against them? Then he'd have to follow through and get rid of members, participants with criminal records too surely? It's telling that he hasn't mentioned the incident within the Armagh camp too. What's his stance there? The fact that the GAA themselves could not maintain a ban on him coaching lends even more weight to this being something Burns should not have been doing.

I've said it before, if guilty I wouldn't have RG near the place and deserves prison time. There's no place for domestic abuse in society and should be deplored.
But we have to accept the findings of due process and treat as innocent, otherwise its just lynch mob justice.

Would you quit with all that common sense. No place for that on social media!!

Burns is president of the Organisation. As such he has to look big picture all the time.
Gallagher ( whilst not found guilty in a court) is toxic.
The optics are terrible, should he be in any high profile position.
Burns is looking out for the entire Organisation.
We ( ordinary members) have no ide of what goes on at the highest level.
For all we know o e of the big sponsors may have said they will pull their sponsorship.
Imagine for a second how that would play out.

On a personal level Burns may even have some syfor Gallagher ( as he has never been prosecuted never mind found guilty) but as president he always has to be aware of what is best( and equally important), looks best for the organisation.

Wouldn't take the gift of GAA president ( even with free All-Ireland tickets!)

so he can pick and choose where he gets involved based on social media? Sound.

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 08, 2025, 11:09:47 AM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 08, 2025, 10:28:49 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 10:06:24 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Agree with this.
He shouldn't have a say in who a club chooses in their management teams.

Listening to the radio (or wireless as my Da would say) yesterday, Gallagher was never even charged let alone been to court to be found "not guilty". He has also denied the allegations, according to the radio. Some of the commentary I've seen on here seem make a big deal about him not denying it - well according to the radio report I heard yesterday, I think on Radio Ulster, it seems he did.

Which makes this all the more ridiculous.
Allegations made against a man by his ex-wife. Man is investigated by authorities and not charged and has custody of his children.
However, the general public have him guilty as they "know" he did it.
Does this not sound absolutely bonkers?

Yet there are many people involved in GAA with criminal convictions for all sorts of crimes, but they are still involved. But that's ok somehow? Is Burns going to make it his mission to get rid of anyone from the GAA with any sort of allegations made against them? Then he'd have to follow through and get rid of members, participants with criminal records too surely? It's telling that he hasn't mentioned the incident within the Armagh camp too. What's his stance there? The fact that the GAA themselves could not maintain a ban on him coaching lends even more weight to this being something Burns should not have been doing.

I've said it before, if guilty I wouldn't have RG near the place and deserves prison time. There's no place for domestic abuse in society and should be deplored.
But we have to accept the findings of due process and treat as innocent, otherwise its just lynch mob justice.

Would you quit with all that common sense. No place for that on social media!!

Burns is president of the Organisation. As such he has to look big picture all the time.
Gallagher ( whilst not found guilty in a court) is toxic.
The optics are terrible, should he be in any high profile position.
Burns is looking out for the entire Organisation.
We ( ordinary members) have no ide of what goes on at the highest level.
For all we know o e of the big sponsors may have said they will pull their sponsorship.
Imagine for a second how that would play out.

On a personal level Burns may even have some syfor Gallagher ( as he has never been prosecuted never mind found guilty) but as president he always has to be aware of what is best( and equally important), looks best for the organisation.

Wouldn't take the gift of GAA president ( even with free All-Ireland tickets!)

Toxic based on what? Social media claims? But not innocent based on investigations by the authorities?

The brave position for the GAA president to take would be to call that out - publicly state that in line with legal advice there is no lawful impediment to him being involved. The GAA should follow their own regulations and the law of the land. If that is not enough, then new regulations need to be introduced and voted in at Congress to handle this type of scenario.

I agree with what you're saying though in that he has to take the big picture view on what's best for the entire GAA, but there is still due process and you can't make it up as you go.
If there was a GAA regulation that could be cited, then perhaps but that doesnt seem to be the case here. I think he has made a huge error of judgement here.

He's bowing down to the furore instigated on social media. What he should be saying to all members is that the GAA won't tolerate any members of the association targeting other members due to social media claims.

I think there is confusion around the issue here in that there is a perception that if the GAA allow RG to be appointed to a role that in some way they are condoning domestic abuse. But I think RG should be able to be appointed and the GAA can still be vocal against domestic abuse. The two can be separated easily - if guilty of the crime then expulsion from all GAA activities, if being investigated for it then suspension pending outcome, otherwise what grounds can an inclusive organisation like the GAA have here? Even with this approach, there probably needs to be new regulations created - and where do we draw the line on what crimes require expulsion? Theft? GBH? Abuse? Former paramilitary? It's a slippery slope.

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 11:48:44 AM

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 08, 2025, 11:09:47 AM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 08, 2025, 10:28:49 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 10:06:24 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Agree with this.
He shouldn't have a say in who a club chooses in their management teams.

Listening to the radio (or wireless as my Da would say) yesterday, Gallagher was never even charged let alone been to court to be found "not guilty". He has also denied the allegations, according to the radio. Some of the commentary I've seen on here seem make a big deal about him not denying it - well according to the radio report I heard yesterday, I think on Radio Ulster, it seems he did.

Which makes this all the more ridiculous.
Allegations made against a man by his ex-wife. Man is investigated by authorities and not charged and has custody of his children.
However, the general public have him guilty as they "know" he did it.
Does this not sound absolutely bonkers?

Yet there are many people involved in GAA with criminal convictions for all sorts of crimes, but they are still involved. But that's ok somehow? Is Burns going to make it his mission to get rid of anyone from the GAA with any sort of allegations made against them? Then he'd have to follow through and get rid of members, participants with criminal records too surely? It's telling that he hasn't mentioned the incident within the Armagh camp too. What's his stance there? The fact that the GAA themselves could not maintain a ban on him coaching lends even more weight to this being something Burns should not have been doing.

I've said it before, if guilty I wouldn't have RG near the place and deserves prison time. There's no place for domestic abuse in society and should be deplored.
But we have to accept the findings of due process and treat as innocent, otherwise its just lynch mob justice.

Would you quit with all that common sense. No place for that on social media!!

Burns is president of the Organisation. As such he has to look big picture all the time.
Gallagher ( whilst not found guilty in a court) is toxic.
The optics are terrible, should he be in any high profile position.
Burns is looking out for the entire Organisation.
We ( ordinary members) have no ide of what goes on at the highest level.
For all we know o e of the big sponsors may have said they will pull their sponsorship.
Imagine for a second how that would play out.

On a personal level Burns may even have some syfor Gallagher ( as he has never been prosecuted never mind found guilty) but as president he always has to be aware of what is best( and equally important), looks best for the organisation.

Wouldn't take the gift of GAA president ( even with free All-Ireland tickets!)

Toxic based on what? Social media claims? But not innocent based on investigations by the authorities?

The brave position for the GAA president to take would be to call that out - publicly state that in line with legal advice there is no lawful impediment to him being involved. The GAA should follow their own regulations and the law of the land. If that is not enough, then new regulations need to be introduced and voted in at Congress to handle this type of scenario.

I agree with what you're saying though in that he has to take the big picture view on what's best for the entire GAA, but there is still due process and you can't make it up as you go.
If there was a GAA regulation that could be cited, then perhaps but that doesnt seem to be the case here. I think he has made a huge error of judgement here.

He's bowing down to the furore instigated on social media. What he should be saying to all members is that the GAA won't tolerate any members of the association targeting other members due to social media claims.

I think there is confusion around the issue here in that there is a perception that if the GAA allow RG to be appointed to a role that in some way they are condoning domestic abuse. But I think RG should be able to be appointed and the GAA can still be vocal against domestic abuse. The two can be separated easily - if guilty of the crime then expulsion from all GAA activities, if being investigated for it then suspension pending outcome, otherwise what grounds can an inclusive organisation like the GAA have here? Even with this approach, there probably needs to be new regulations created - and where do we draw the line on what crimes require expulsion? Theft? GBH? Abuse? Former paramilitary? It's a slippery slope.

Just wait til the LGFA get their feet under the table, you ain't seen nothing yet

Quote from: nrico2006 on January 07, 2025, 08:03:07 PMWonder if Burns will speak up if a certain former Armagh captain remains on the panel this season.

Don't think you are going to have a problem with this one..

Quote from: bogball88 on January 08, 2025, 10:07:02 AMThe question I have for Naas is this. They are going for 5 in a row in Kildare and have the same manager on board this year. Surely they are good enough to have another successful year without the need to pay for Gallagher to come in, along with the negative publicity this would involve?

They probably think RG will give them an extra push for Leinster/AI honours. 

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 11:48:44 AMEven with this approach, there probably needs to be new regulations created - and where do we draw the line on what crimes require expulsion? Theft? GBH? Abuse? Former paramilitary? It's a slippery slope.

While this guy has been allowed to manage in the SPL

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/gangster-tv-lured-livi-manger-28188409

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 11:23:24 AM

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 08, 2025, 11:09:47 AM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 08, 2025, 10:28:49 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 08, 2025, 10:06:24 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2025, 05:25:07 PMBurns has overstepped the mark here. Its not up to him to dictate to clubs who involved with them. He had some fun with some men playing in Derry years ago who done serious time. We had player troubles in the county, plus few from Limerick. He stayed dead silence on the issue in the Armagh county team. Does he weight in when it suits him, when he can't sort out the gaa rule book on discipline issues. He want to change the name of certain clubs based on who they named after nxt?

Agree with this.
He shouldn't have a say in who a club chooses in their management teams.

Listening to the radio (or wireless as my Da would say) yesterday, Gallagher was never even charged let alone been to court to be found "not guilty". He has also denied the allegations, according to the radio. Some of the commentary I've seen on here seem make a big deal about him not denying it - well according to the radio report I heard yesterday, I think on Radio Ulster, it seems he did.

Which makes this all the more ridiculous.
Allegations made against a man by his ex-wife. Man is investigated by authorities and not charged and has custody of his children.
However, the general public have him guilty as they "know" he did it.
Does this not sound absolutely bonkers?

Yet there are many people involved in GAA with criminal convictions for all sorts of crimes, but they are still involved. But that's ok somehow? Is Burns going to make it his mission to get rid of anyone from the GAA with any sort of allegations made against them? Then he'd have to follow through and get rid of members, participants with criminal records too surely? It's telling that he hasn't mentioned the incident within the Armagh camp too. What's his stance there? The fact that the GAA themselves could not maintain a ban on him coaching lends even more weight to this being something Burns should not have been doing.

I've said it before, if guilty I wouldn't have RG near the place and deserves prison time. There's no place for domestic abuse in society and should be deplored.
But we have to accept the findings of due process and treat as innocent, otherwise its just lynch mob justice.

Would you quit with all that common sense. No place for that on social media!!

Burns is president of the Organisation. As such he has to look big picture all the time.
Gallagher ( whilst not found guilty in a court) is toxic.
The optics are terrible, should he be in any high profile position.
Burns is looking out for the entire Organisation.
We ( ordinary members) have no ide of what goes on at the highest level.
For all we know o e of the big sponsors may have said they will pull their sponsorship.
Imagine for a second how that would play out.

On a personal level Burns may even have some syfor Gallagher ( as he has never been prosecuted never mind found guilty) but as president he always has to be aware of what is best( and equally important), looks best for the organisation.

Wouldn't take the gift of GAA president ( even with free All-Ireland tickets!)

so he can pick and choose where he gets involved based on social media? Sound.

This ^^^^^^

Can someone provide the rest of us with an exhaustive list of all the types of cases where the president should get involved?

Quote from: tiempo on January 08, 2025, 12:15:45 PMJust wait til the LGFA get their feet under the table, you ain't seen nothing yet

I suspect you could be right. was all for the merger myself but think it could now end up being more trouble than it's worth.

Quote from: clarshack on January 08, 2025, 01:17:28 PM

Quote from: tiempo on January 08, 2025, 12:15:45 PMJust wait til the LGFA get their feet under the table, you ain't seen nothing yet

I suspect you could be right. was all for the merger myself but think it could now end up being more trouble than it's worth.

God forbid, these women might voice an opinion.

Quote from: clarshack on January 08, 2025, 01:17:28 PM

Quote from: tiempo on January 08, 2025, 12:15:45 PMJust wait til the LGFA get their feet under the table, you ain't seen nothing yet

I suspect you could be right. was all for the merger myself but think it could now end up being more trouble than it's worth.

Me too.  If the LGFA was part of the GAA there would have been a whole song and dance outside the Ulster final between Derry and Armagh a few years ago. 

I've never paid much heed to the LGFA but everything I seem to hear about them is negative which is worrying for this merger, is it just a Derry problem or nationally?

Quote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 12:20:09 PM

Quote from: bogball88 on January 08, 2025, 10:07:02 AMThe question I have for Naas is this. They are going for 5 in a row in Kildare and have the same manager on board this year. Surely they are good enough to have another successful year without the need to pay for Gallagher to come in, along with the negative publicity this would involve?

They probably think RG will give them an extra push for Leinster/AI honours. 

Whilst they have been beaten by each of the 4 previous Leinster winners bar a 3 point defeat to newcomers Cuala this year, they haven't really come close. 7, 9 and 7 point defeats

Rory Gallagher has accused the GAA president Jarlath Burns of trying to sabotage his career after he intervened in his potential appointment at Naas GAA.

In a statement to BBC News NI, Mr Gallagher said Mr Burns' actions were "unprecedented" and "misguided" and threatened legal action if the remarks were not retracted.

The former Derry county football manager was offered a coaching role with Naas but the offer was then withdrawn after details of the appointment were made public at the weekend.

It later emerged Mr Burns had contacted the club to express his concern at the proposed appointment.

Mr Gallagher stepped down as Derry manager in 2023 just weeks before the team played in the Ulster Senior Football Final.

It followed allegations of abuse made by his estranged wife Nicola Gallagher, which he denied.

When news of the appointment at Naas appeared in the media, the association's president spoke to the Naas club chairman before sending an email which was then read at a meeting of party officers at which it was decided not to proceed with Mr Gallagher's appointment.

In the email, which has been seen by the BBC, Mr Burns said he felt compelled to share his perspective given the "potential implications for Naas GAA and the wider association".

He said decisions made by the club "reverberate far beyond your immediate community" and send a "message about the values we uphold and the standards we set for our members and supporters".

He also warned of the implications for the GAA's Game Changer Initiative which was launched in November to challenge the "social and cultural norms that contribute to domestic, sexual and gender based violence".
Jarlath Burns has grey short hair and wears glasses with a grey frame. He is wearing a grey suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.
Image caption,

Mr Burns said employing Mr Gallagher could attract negative attention and criticism for the club

After Mr Gallagher resigned as Derry manager, he was "temporarily debarred" by the GAA in September 2023 when an independent panel was asked to investigate the claims made by his estranged wife.

Mr Gallagher successfully challenged that debarment in February 2024 and a statement from his solicitors in September said there was no "legal impediment" to prevent him returning to a senior role in the game.

"I have engaged with every procedure available to me. The PPS have issued two separate decisions finding that I have no case to answer," Mr Gallagher added in his statement to the BBC.

"Despite having engaged with due process and procedure, it seems clear that the president has now opted to take matters into his own hands.

"It seems that social media commentary and controversy now equates to a license for presidential intervention."

In the email to Naas GAA, Mr Burns said the "appointment of Rory Gallagher given the allegations that have been made public, risks undermining the principles of the Game Changer Initiative and the positive work being done across the GAA".

He added: "The controversy surrounding his personal life has created significant division and concern within the wider GAA community.

"Such a decision by Naas GAA could have far reaching consequences."

Mr Burns added the appointment would likely "polarise opinion" and create unnecessary tension within the club and he questioned the "confusing message" it would send to younger members.

In conclusion the GAA president said he had "no authority to dictate club decisions" but he had a "responsibility to advocate" for what he believed was in the best interests of the association and its members.

"By choosing not to proceed with this appointment you will be making a statement about the principles that define Naas GAA," he added.

Mr Gallagher has called on the GAA president to withdraw his remarks.

"I have never asked for sympathy or support. I do however ask that this action is formally withdrawn and the contents of the correspondence is retracted," he said.

"The president should lead by example and accept when he has overstepped the mark.

"Absent such a retraction, I will have no other alternative but to take legal action to cure the irreparable damage done to me and my family in my ability to continue to work as a manger in the years ahead."


Surely he means volunteer? ;D

 no legal action DOES NOT mean no risk (https://x.com/Sineadmcgar/status/1876774494234165654)

An interesting article about safeguarding in general and the GAA specifically.

The biggest losers in all of this are the kids that he is looking after, if they are at school age and this is all going on in the background it generally ends up with causing unnecessary grief for them..

Very sad state of affairs being aired across social media and local media

 

Quote from: bogball88 on January 09, 2025, 12:16:34 PMRory Gallagher has accused the GAA president Jarlath Burns of trying to sabotage his career after he intervened in his potential appointment at Naas GAA.

In a statement to BBC News NI, Mr Gallagher said Mr Burns' actions were "unprecedented" and "misguided" and threatened legal action if the remarks were not retracted.

The former Derry county football manager was offered a coaching role with Naas but the offer was then withdrawn after details of the appointment were made public at the weekend.

It later emerged Mr Burns had contacted the club to express his concern at the proposed appointment.

Mr Gallagher stepped down as Derry manager in 2023 just weeks before the team played in the Ulster Senior Football Final.

It followed allegations of abuse made by his estranged wife Nicola Gallagher, which he denied.

When news of the appointment at Naas appeared in the media, the association's president spoke to the Naas club chairman before sending an email which was then read at a meeting of party officers at which it was decided not to proceed with Mr Gallagher's appointment.

In the email, which has been seen by the BBC, Mr Burns said he felt compelled to share his perspective given the "potential implications for Naas GAA and the wider association".

He said decisions made by the club "reverberate far beyond your immediate community" and send a "message about the values we uphold and the standards we set for our members and supporters".

He also warned of the implications for the GAA's Game Changer Initiative which was launched in November to challenge the "social and cultural norms that contribute to domestic, sexual and gender based violence".
Jarlath Burns has grey short hair and wears glasses with a grey frame. He is wearing a grey suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.
Image caption,

Mr Burns said employing Mr Gallagher could attract negative attention and criticism for the club

After Mr Gallagher resigned as Derry manager, he was "temporarily debarred" by the GAA in September 2023 when an independent panel was asked to investigate the claims made by his estranged wife.

Mr Gallagher successfully challenged that debarment in February 2024 and a statement from his solicitors in September said there was no "legal impediment" to prevent him returning to a senior role in the game.

"I have engaged with every procedure available to me. The PPS have issued two separate decisions finding that I have no case to answer," Mr Gallagher added in his statement to the BBC.

"Despite having engaged with due process and procedure, it seems clear that the president has now opted to take matters into his own hands.

"It seems that social media commentary and controversy now equates to a license for presidential intervention."

In the email to Naas GAA, Mr Burns said the "appointment of Rory Gallagher given the allegations that have been made public, risks undermining the principles of the Game Changer Initiative and the positive work being done across the GAA".

He added: "The controversy surrounding his personal life has created significant division and concern within the wider GAA community.

"Such a decision by Naas GAA could have far reaching consequences."

Mr Burns added the appointment would likely "polarise opinion" and create unnecessary tension within the club and he questioned the "confusing message" it would send to younger members.

In conclusion the GAA president said he had "no authority to dictate club decisions" but he had a "responsibility to advocate" for what he believed was in the best interests of the association and its members.

"By choosing not to proceed with this appointment you will be making a statement about the principles that define Naas GAA," he added.

Mr Gallagher has called on the GAA president to withdraw his remarks.

"I have never asked for sympathy or support. I do however ask that this action is formally withdrawn and the contents of the correspondence is retracted," he said.

"The president should lead by example and accept when he has overstepped the mark.

"Absent such a retraction, I will have no other alternative but to take legal action to cure the irreparable damage done to me and my family in my ability to continue to work as a manger in the years ahead."


Surely he means volunteer? ;D

He is 100% right to issue that statement, fair play to him. I don't like how he acts on the sidelines but there's been a complete witch hunt for him and it's surely taking a Toal on him and his family. Let the man get on with his life. Many people in the GAA have been convicted of things, served their time and are free to get back at it but just because RG is high profile he's not.

So I take it any gaa member convicted of assault, GAA safeguarding coming into play means that player shouldn't be playing? Over to you Kyle!!

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2025, 01:38:11 PMSo I take it any gaa member convicted of assualt, GAA safeguarding coming into play means that player shouldn't be playing? Over to you Kyle!!

My thoughts exactly.

From the Irish News article. I take it he emailed the Derry county Board at some stage last summer also.

I think people should carefully read the report on BBC on the sentencing of Stuart Hogg (a former Scottish rugby international) today. Given the GAA has signed up to address violence against women and girls, Jarlath has acted appropriately.  Necessary, legal and proportionate. I look forward to the threatened legal challenge. Plus...it wasn't a solo run from Jarlath. The Naas club should indicate if they received any communication from members, supporters and sponsors.

How's it legal? Stuart Hogg was convicted. So man on man violence is ok, but we barring all domestic abuse proofed or unproofed. What his stance on illegal drug taking in the organisation. Anybody convicted barred? Can any former convicted IRA/INLA men have any involvement with gaa clubs?

This is getting messier by the week.

I can see both sides of the arguments. In general, Not convicted = not guilty = should be a free man. Meaning if a club/county thinks he comes with too much heat & don't want him that's OK, and their decision to make, but it shouldn't get to the stage of higher powers stepping in.

However Gallagher is a sc*mbag. Speak to ones that know him, grew up with him or even know him from over the years, you will hear the same. I would happily see him never get another coaching role. And I wouldn't say that about many coaches. Ask his own brother Ronan why they fell out for years, he's a bad person. I wouldn't want to see him rewarded. Again, that's my own view. And can understand others who think he hasn't been convicted so should be free to go to whatever club/county he wants.

Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 09, 2025, 02:05:23 PMI think people should carefully read the report on BBC on the sentencing of Stuart Hogg (a former Scottish rugby international) today. Given the GAA has signed up to address violence against women and girls, Jarlath has acted appropriately.  Necessary, legal and proportionate. I look forward to the threatened legal challenge. Plus...it wasn't a solo run from Jarlath. The Naas club should indicate if they received any communication from members, supporters and sponsors.

I'll compare with the RG sentencing when it comes out.

Quote from: toby47 on January 09, 2025, 02:31:05 PMThis is getting messier by the week.

I can see both sides of the arguments. In general, Not convicted = not guilty = should be a free man. Meaning if a club/county thinks he comes with too much heat & don't want him that's OK, and their decision to make, but it shouldn't get to the stage of higher powers stepping in.

However Gallagher is a sc*mbag. Speak to ones that know him, grew up with him or even know him from over the years, you will hear the same. I would happily see him never get another coaching role. And I wouldn't say that about many coaches. Ask his own brother Ronan why they fell out for years, he's a bad person. I wouldn't want to see him rewarded. Again, that's my own view. And can understand others who think he hasn't been convicted so should be free to go to whatever club/county he wants.

I agree he's not a nice person, but we have plenty of sc*mbags in the GAA who are free to go about their business that's my main issue, it's a witch-hunt, the fact RG is a d*ck just makes the pile on easier

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 09, 2025, 02:37:38 PM

Quote from: toby47 on January 09, 2025, 02:31:05 PMThis is getting messier by the week.

I can see both sides of the arguments. In general, Not convicted = not guilty = should be a free man. Meaning if a club/county thinks he comes with too much heat & don't want him that's OK, and their decision to make, but it shouldn't get to the stage of higher powers stepping in.

However Gallagher is a sc*mbag. Speak to ones that know him, grew up with him or even know him from over the years, you will hear the same. I would happily see him never get another coaching role. And I wouldn't say that about many coaches. Ask his own brother Ronan why they fell out for years, he's a bad person. I wouldn't want to see him rewarded. Again, that's my own view. And can understand others who think he hasn't been convicted so should be free to go to whatever club/county he wants.

I agree he's not a nice person, but we have plenty of sc*mbags in the GAA who are free to go about their business that's my main issue, it's a witch-hunt, the fact RG is a d*ck just makes the pile on easier

Very hard for Jarlath to draw the line after this one, that's a big issue.

Did know the brother fball wise for a short time,years ago,and yes, different type lad altogether.

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 09, 2025, 01:14:20 PM

Quote from: bogball88 on January 09, 2025, 12:16:34 PMRory Gallagher has accused the GAA president Jarlath Burns of trying to sabotage his career after he intervened in his potential appointment at Naas GAA.

In a statement to BBC News NI, Mr Gallagher said Mr Burns' actions were "unprecedented" and "misguided" and threatened legal action if the remarks were not retracted.

The former Derry county football manager was offered a coaching role with Naas but the offer was then withdrawn after details of the appointment were made public at the weekend.

It later emerged Mr Burns had contacted the club to express his concern at the proposed appointment.

Mr Gallagher stepped down as Derry manager in 2023 just weeks before the team played in the Ulster Senior Football Final.

It followed allegations of abuse made by his estranged wife Nicola Gallagher, which he denied.

When news of the appointment at Naas appeared in the media, the association's president spoke to the Naas club chairman before sending an email which was then read at a meeting of party officers at which it was decided not to proceed with Mr Gallagher's appointment.

In the email, which has been seen by the BBC, Mr Burns said he felt compelled to share his perspective given the "potential implications for Naas GAA and the wider association".

He said decisions made by the club "reverberate far beyond your immediate community" and send a "message about the values we uphold and the standards we set for our members and supporters".

He also warned of the implications for the GAA's Game Changer Initiative which was launched in November to challenge the "social and cultural norms that contribute to domestic, sexual and gender based violence".
Jarlath Burns has grey short hair and wears glasses with a grey frame. He is wearing a grey suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.
Image caption,

Mr Burns said employing Mr Gallagher could attract negative attention and criticism for the club

After Mr Gallagher resigned as Derry manager, he was "temporarily debarred" by the GAA in September 2023 when an independent panel was asked to investigate the claims made by his estranged wife.

Mr Gallagher successfully challenged that debarment in February 2024 and a statement from his solicitors in September said there was no "legal impediment" to prevent him returning to a senior role in the game.

"I have engaged with every procedure available to me. The PPS have issued two separate decisions finding that I have no case to answer," Mr Gallagher added in his statement to the BBC.

"Despite having engaged with due process and procedure, it seems clear that the president has now opted to take matters into his own hands.

"It seems that social media commentary and controversy now equates to a license for presidential intervention."

In the email to Naas GAA, Mr Burns said the "appointment of Rory Gallagher given the allegations that have been made public, risks undermining the principles of the Game Changer Initiative and the positive work being done across the GAA".

He added: "The controversy surrounding his personal life has created significant division and concern within the wider GAA community.

"Such a decision by Naas GAA could have far reaching consequences."

Mr Burns added the appointment would likely "polarise opinion" and create unnecessary tension within the club and he questioned the "confusing message" it would send to younger members.

In conclusion the GAA president said he had "no authority to dictate club decisions" but he had a "responsibility to advocate" for what he believed was in the best interests of the association and its members.

"By choosing not to proceed with this appointment you will be making a statement about the principles that define Naas GAA," he added.

Mr Gallagher has called on the GAA president to withdraw his remarks.

"I have never asked for sympathy or support. I do however ask that this action is formally withdrawn and the contents of the correspondence is retracted," he said.

"The president should lead by example and accept when he has overstepped the mark.

"Absent such a retraction, I will have no other alternative but to take legal action to cure the irreparable damage done to me and my family in my ability to continue to work as a manger in the years ahead."


Surely he means volunteer? ;D

He is 100% right to issue that statement, fair play to him. I don't like how he acts on the sidelines but there's been a complete witch hunt for him and it's surely taking a Toal on him and his family. Let the man get on with his life. Many people in the GAA have been convicted of things, served their time and are free to get back at it but just because RG is high profile he's not.

One simple question.
If he's going to court re. Jarlath why did he not issue libel proceedings against the wife of former Fermanagh player Stepen Maguire.
30 seconds on GOOGLE and I can find it.. it's pretty damning
If Gallagher disputes her account why not sue for libel.
I suspect the last place Gallagher wants to be is anywhere near a courtroom.

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 09, 2025, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 09, 2025, 01:14:20 PM

Quote from: bogball88 on January 09, 2025, 12:16:34 PMRory Gallagher has accused the GAA president Jarlath Burns of trying to sabotage his career after he intervened in his potential appointment at Naas GAA.

In a statement to BBC News NI, Mr Gallagher said Mr Burns' actions were "unprecedented" and "misguided" and threatened legal action if the remarks were not retracted.

The former Derry county football manager was offered a coaching role with Naas but the offer was then withdrawn after details of the appointment were made public at the weekend.

It later emerged Mr Burns had contacted the club to express his concern at the proposed appointment.

Mr Gallagher stepped down as Derry manager in 2023 just weeks before the team played in the Ulster Senior Football Final.

It followed allegations of abuse made by his estranged wife Nicola Gallagher, which he denied.

When news of the appointment at Naas appeared in the media, the association's president spoke to the Naas club chairman before sending an email which was then read at a meeting of party officers at which it was decided not to proceed with Mr Gallagher's appointment.

In the email, which has been seen by the BBC, Mr Burns said he felt compelled to share his perspective given the "potential implications for Naas GAA and the wider association".

He said decisions made by the club "reverberate far beyond your immediate community" and send a "message about the values we uphold and the standards we set for our members and supporters".

He also warned of the implications for the GAA's Game Changer Initiative which was launched in November to challenge the "social and cultural norms that contribute to domestic, sexual and gender based violence".
Jarlath Burns has grey short hair and wears glasses with a grey frame. He is wearing a grey suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.
Image caption,

Mr Burns said employing Mr Gallagher could attract negative attention and criticism for the club

After Mr Gallagher resigned as Derry manager, he was "temporarily debarred" by the GAA in September 2023 when an independent panel was asked to investigate the claims made by his estranged wife.

Mr Gallagher successfully challenged that debarment in February 2024 and a statement from his solicitors in September said there was no "legal impediment" to prevent him returning to a senior role in the game.

"I have engaged with every procedure available to me. The PPS have issued two separate decisions finding that I have no case to answer," Mr Gallagher added in his statement to the BBC.

"Despite having engaged with due process and procedure, it seems clear that the president has now opted to take matters into his own hands.

"It seems that social media commentary and controversy now equates to a license for presidential intervention."

In the email to Naas GAA, Mr Burns said the "appointment of Rory Gallagher given the allegations that have been made public, risks undermining the principles of the Game Changer Initiative and the positive work being done across the GAA".

He added: "The controversy surrounding his personal life has created significant division and concern within the wider GAA community.

"Such a decision by Naas GAA could have far reaching consequences."

Mr Burns added the appointment would likely "polarise opinion" and create unnecessary tension within the club and he questioned the "confusing message" it would send to younger members.

In conclusion the GAA president said he had "no authority to dictate club decisions" but he had a "responsibility to advocate" for what he believed was in the best interests of the association and its members.

"By choosing not to proceed with this appointment you will be making a statement about the principles that define Naas GAA," he added.

Mr Gallagher has called on the GAA president to withdraw his remarks.

"I have never asked for sympathy or support. I do however ask that this action is formally withdrawn and the contents of the correspondence is retracted," he said.

"The president should lead by example and accept when he has overstepped the mark.

"Absent such a retraction, I will have no other alternative but to take legal action to cure the irreparable damage done to me and my family in my ability to continue to work as a manger in the years ahead."


Surely he means volunteer? ;D

He is 100% right to issue that statement, fair play to him. I don't like how he acts on the sidelines but there's been a complete witch hunt for him and it's surely taking a Toal on him and his family. Let the man get on with his life. Many people in the GAA have been convicted of things, served their time and are free to get back at it but just because RG is high profile he's not.

One simple question.
If he's going to court re. Jarlath why did he not issue libel proceedings against the wife of former Fermanagh player Stepen Maguire.
30 seconds on GOOGLE and I can find it.. it's pretty damning
If Gallagher disputes her account why not sue for libel.
I suspect the last place Gallagher wants to be is anywhere near a courtroom.

Probably because he was advised to just say nothing at the time and let it run its course, I'm sure it's common practice.

Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 09, 2025, 02:05:23 PMI think people should carefully read the report on BBC on the sentencing of Stuart Hogg (a former Scottish rugby international) today. Given the GAA has signed up to address violence against women and girls, Jarlath has acted appropriately.  Necessary, legal and proportionate. I look forward to the threatened legal challenge. Plus...it wasn't a solo run from Jarlath. The Naas club should indicate if they received any communication from members, supporters and sponsors.

Why is Burns silent on the Armagh sexual assault situation?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2025, 01:02:06 PMThe biggest losers in all of this are the kids that he is looking after, if they are at school age and this is all going on in the background it generally ends up with causing unnecessary grief for them..

Very sad state of affairs being aired across social media and local media

 

100% agree.
Even in the future they will see all of this content online.
Unpopular opinion as this may be, his ex-wife putting the allegations on social media are what put the details on line and started the snowball effect.
She obviously didn't think too much about the kids when making that very public statement.
There are legal means and I assume civil court means to pursue her allegations without the social media route. At best it was not a well thought out approach and as it has transpired I assume would make it more difficult to get a conviction against RG in the future.

Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 09, 2025, 02:05:23 PMI think people should carefully read the report on BBC on the sentencing of Stuart Hogg (a former Scottish rugby international) today. Given the GAA has signed up to address violence against women and girls, Jarlath has acted appropriately.  Necessary, legal and proportionate. I look forward to the threatened legal challenge. Plus...it wasn't a solo run from Jarlath. The Naas club should indicate if they received any communication from members, supporters and sponsors.

Hogg convicted in court after due process - deserves all he gets in my opinion.
Gallagher - never been to court, or been charged, or sentenced.

Comparing apples and oranges here.

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 09, 2025, 02:37:38 PM

Quote from: toby47 on January 09, 2025, 02:31:05 PMThis is getting messier by the week.

I can see both sides of the arguments. In general, Not convicted = not guilty = should be a free man. Meaning if a club/county thinks he comes with too much heat & don't want him that's OK, and their decision to make, but it shouldn't get to the stage of higher powers stepping in.

However Gallagher is a sc*mbag. Speak to ones that know him, grew up with him or even know him from over the years, you will hear the same. I would happily see him never get another coaching role. And I wouldn't say that about many coaches. Ask his own brother Ronan why they fell out for years, he's a bad person. I wouldn't want to see him rewarded. Again, that's my own view. And can understand others who think he hasn't been convicted so should be free to go to whatever club/county he wants.

I agree he's not a nice person, but we have plenty of sc*mbags in the GAA who are free to go about their business that's my main issue, it's a witch-hunt, the fact RG is a d*ck just makes the pile on easier

I don't know the man, and he might not be a nice person for all I know. But there are plenty of players, officials and GAA employees who are not nice people and there are plenty of d*cks.
Burns has completely overstepped the mark here regardless of his personal opinion.

If you lost your private sector job over allegations someone made about you, which you were never charged with or sentenced for and then found out an old boss intervened to stop you getting the next job what would you do? You go to to an employment tribunal and seek damages.

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 09, 2025, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 09, 2025, 01:14:20 PM

Quote from: bogball88 on January 09, 2025, 12:16:34 PMRory Gallagher has accused the GAA president Jarlath Burns of trying to sabotage his career after he intervened in his potential appointment at Naas GAA.

In a statement to BBC News NI, Mr Gallagher said Mr Burns' actions were "unprecedented" and "misguided" and threatened legal action if the remarks were not retracted.

The former Derry county football manager was offered a coaching role with Naas but the offer was then withdrawn after details of the appointment were made public at the weekend.

It later emerged Mr Burns had contacted the club to express his concern at the proposed appointment.

Mr Gallagher stepped down as Derry manager in 2023 just weeks before the team played in the Ulster Senior Football Final.

It followed allegations of abuse made by his estranged wife Nicola Gallagher, which he denied.

When news of the appointment at Naas appeared in the media, the association's president spoke to the Naas club chairman before sending an email which was then read at a meeting of party officers at which it was decided not to proceed with Mr Gallagher's appointment.

In the email, which has been seen by the BBC, Mr Burns said he felt compelled to share his perspective given the "potential implications for Naas GAA and the wider association".

He said decisions made by the club "reverberate far beyond your immediate community" and send a "message about the values we uphold and the standards we set for our members and supporters".

He also warned of the implications for the GAA's Game Changer Initiative which was launched in November to challenge the "social and cultural norms that contribute to domestic, sexual and gender based violence".
Jarlath Burns has grey short hair and wears glasses with a grey frame. He is wearing a grey suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.
Image caption,

Mr Burns said employing Mr Gallagher could attract negative attention and criticism for the club

After Mr Gallagher resigned as Derry manager, he was "temporarily debarred" by the GAA in September 2023 when an independent panel was asked to investigate the claims made by his estranged wife.

Mr Gallagher successfully challenged that debarment in February 2024 and a statement from his solicitors in September said there was no "legal impediment" to prevent him returning to a senior role in the game.

"I have engaged with every procedure available to me. The PPS have issued two separate decisions finding that I have no case to answer," Mr Gallagher added in his statement to the BBC.

"Despite having engaged with due process and procedure, it seems clear that the president has now opted to take matters into his own hands.

"It seems that social media commentary and controversy now equates to a license for presidential intervention."

In the email to Naas GAA, Mr Burns said the "appointment of Rory Gallagher given the allegations that have been made public, risks undermining the principles of the Game Changer Initiative and the positive work being done across the GAA".

He added: "The controversy surrounding his personal life has created significant division and concern within the wider GAA community.

"Such a decision by Naas GAA could have far reaching consequences."

Mr Burns added the appointment would likely "polarise opinion" and create unnecessary tension within the club and he questioned the "confusing message" it would send to younger members.

In conclusion the GAA president said he had "no authority to dictate club decisions" but he had a "responsibility to advocate" for what he believed was in the best interests of the association and its members.

"By choosing not to proceed with this appointment you will be making a statement about the principles that define Naas GAA," he added.

Mr Gallagher has called on the GAA president to withdraw his remarks.

"I have never asked for sympathy or support. I do however ask that this action is formally withdrawn and the contents of the correspondence is retracted," he said.

"The president should lead by example and accept when he has overstepped the mark.

"Absent such a retraction, I will have no other alternative but to take legal action to cure the irreparable damage done to me and my family in my ability to continue to work as a manger in the years ahead."


Surely he means volunteer? ;D

He is 100% right to issue that statement, fair play to him. I don't like how he acts on the sidelines but there's been a complete witch hunt for him and it's surely taking a Toal on him and his family. Let the man get on with his life. Many people in the GAA have been convicted of things, served their time and are free to get back at it but just because RG is high profile he's not.

One simple question.
If he's going to court re. Jarlath why did he not issue libel proceedings against the wife of former Fermanagh player Stepen Maguire.
30 seconds on GOOGLE and I can find it.. it's pretty damning
If Gallagher disputes her account why not sue for libel.
I suspect the last place Gallagher wants to be is anywhere near a courtroom.

Yep - she might be telling the truth. But we'll never know.
And maybe he is suing for libel, how would we know if he is or isn't?

I would imagine the authorities would have spoken to the Maguire woman too. Again, GOOGLE is not a source of truth, its just a tool for throwing out information that may or may not be true.
If GOOGLE was the answer, just ask google if the perp is guilty at the next court case and save a fortune on solicitors, barristers and court time.

Quote from: toby47 on January 09, 2025, 02:31:05 PMThis is getting messier by the week.

I can see both sides of the arguments. In general, Not convicted = not guilty = should be a free man. Meaning if a club/county thinks he comes with too much heat & don't want him that's OK, and their decision to make, but it shouldn't get to the stage of higher powers stepping in.

However Gallagher is a sc*mbag. Speak to ones that know him, grew up with him or even know him from over the years, you will hear the same. I would happily see him never get another coaching role. And I wouldn't say that about many coaches. Ask his own brother Ronan why they fell out for years, he's a bad person. I wouldn't want to see him rewarded. Again, that's my own view. And can understand others who think he hasn't been convicted so should be free to go to whatever club/county he wants.

Wow ! A lot of libellous stuff in that statement, you must have deep pockets .

Quote from: bogball88 on January 09, 2025, 12:16:34 PMJarlath Burns has grey short hair and wears glasses with a grey frame. He is wearing a grey suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.

Some serious detail there..

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 04:09:30 PM

Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 09, 2025, 02:05:23 PMI think people should carefully read the report on BBC on the sentencing of Stuart Hogg (a former Scottish rugby international) today. Given the GAA has signed up to address violence against women and girls, Jarlath has acted appropriately.  Necessary, legal and proportionate. I look forward to the threatened legal challenge. Plus...it wasn't a solo run from Jarlath. The Naas club should indicate if they received any communication from members, supporters and sponsors.

Hogg convicted in court after due process - deserves all he gets in my opinion.
Gallagher - never been to court, or been charged, or sentenced.

Comparing apples and oranges here.

Hogg pleaded guilty.  There was no trial. He took responsibility for shouting and swearing in an abusive manner. I was interested in the comments from the procurator fiscal, where she recognised the devastating impact of domestic abuse and the trauma suffered by victims. Stuart Hogg deserves credit for accepting his guilt and he is now continuing his rugby career with Montpellier.

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 04:07:54 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2025, 01:02:06 PMThe biggest losers in all of this are the kids that he is looking after, if they are at school age and this is all going on in the background it generally ends up with causing unnecessary grief for them..

Very sad state of affairs being aired across social media and local media

 

100% agree.
Even in the future they will see all of this content online.
Unpopular opinion as this may be, his ex-wife putting the allegations on social media are what put the details on line and started the snowball effect.
She obviously didn't think too much about the kids when making that very public statement.
There are legal means and I assume civil court means to pursue her allegations without the social media route. At best it was not a well thought out approach and as it has transpired I assume would make it more difficult to get a conviction against RG in the future.

I wonder did he think about the kids and the effect on them when knocking ten bells out of her for 20 years? (alleged by the ex-wife and a publicly named source).

My View:

Firstly it's complex, I don't think there is an simple way through it. But:

His Character -

• There are lots of people ready to comment that RG is unlikable
• Although you have to be cautious about bandwagon jumpers
• I have not heard a lot of people saying he's a lovey sweet guy
• So, I would conclude he may well not the nicest guy around
• But... is that critical?

The accusations -

• The accusations are horrible.
• Though just because they are made doesn't mean they are true
• These have been investigated by the Gardai, the PSNI, the courts (family), and the DRA
• No conviction or sanction was imposed by any of these bodies
• In fact no charge or even arrest was ever made
• The DRA said there was no case to answer
• The PPS said that there were no grounds for a prosecution
• However, on the other hand, RG has never denied the accusations publicly

The accuser -

• Nicola clearly has personal issues apart from this direct accusation.
• The marriage ended toxically.
• With reference to the family court above. These accusations were considered as part of the custody hearings and yet the court granted RG full custody of the children.
• I hardly need to point out that full custody to a father is relatively rare.
• But that would not give him an excuse, even given a toxic environment, for physically assaulting a woman
• It is wrong to victim blame and women speaking up should be given the benefit of the doubt.
• But with all the investigations reaching conclusions in RG's favour it can't be denied that some doubt has been created.
• The lack of action would make me wonder what corroboration there was, Nicola claimed people were present, surely if they could back up the accusation there would at least have been some action?
• Equally, in no way unless it is proven otherwise, should Nicola's claims be dismissed. Such claims should be taken seriously.
• None of us can know for sure if the accusations are fact, but we can be sure that a young lady is deeply unhappy in life and that she is suffering. We should all wish her the best.
• The single most important thing is that we don't know. We don't know if he subjected her to violence, and we don't know if he didn't.

Jarlath Burns -

• Jarlath Burns has ignored the findings of the DRA
• He has used his position to put pressure on Naas
• Given all the doubt above, how much is not fully known, that would appear an overreach to me
• Is it not hypocritical? he has not intervened against any other individual despite plenty of GAA managers and players actually being convicted of offences in court
• It is hard to see that Burns has made this decision on anything other than social media.
• If his argument is that he doesn't want specifically abusers of women to be in the GAA then I ask if he has written to the club of the Armagh player, that was arrested for indecent assault recently, to be dropped by his club and county?

Work as a manger? -

• Minor side comment here. In his statement Gallagher mentioned working as a manger. What is his tax return record on being employed as a manger? Isn't the GAA supposed to be volunteers? His admission of working should really be of interest to the Revenue Commissioners. (as i said complete side point)

Conclusions -

• We do not know if the accusations are fact
• We do know that Nicola is not in a good place and we should all be sympathetic to her
• We simply cannot state with certainty that RG has done anything to mean he does not deserve a coaching role in the GAA.
• But all investigations, including GAA, have cleared him and I don't think we have anything more to go on than to accept the findings of those with the detailed information.
• In my opinion he should not therefore be denied the opportunity to work unless other information can be proven
• This is the simplest one - In my opinion Jarlath Burns was out of order, going against his own DRA findings and singling out an individual. It was an abuse of his position and laced with hypocrisy

Finally, I do not think highly of him. I would tend to believe that there is at least some partial value in the accusations. I am drawn towards thinking that whatever happened, he was unlikely to have treated he kindly in their relationship. I don't think I would want to be associated with him. But I can't say there is any solid reason for preventing hm for taking a role he is offered.

Independent of all of that, with RG being cleared by the DRA, I think Jarlath Burns was very wrong.

Putting the brackets in, doesn't cover u from libel.lol

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2025, 04:58:16 PMPutting the brackets in, doesn't cover u from libel.lol

the only brackets i used were for the word family. Which was simply a clarification that the court was a family court. How is that libel? I can't libel a court as it isn't a person.

For by that, what do you think i said that was libel? What single accusation have I made about anyone that could be considered libel?

Quite seriously, if you can point it out then I would revise the post to avoid making that mistake

Was talking about the lad before you Pauld.

My View:

Firstly it's complex, I don't think there is an simple way through it. But:

His Character -

• There are lots of people ready to comment that RG is unlikable
• Although you have to be cautious about bandwagon jumpers
• I have not heard a lot of people saying he's a lovey sweet guy
• So, I would conclude he may well not the nicest guy around
• But... is that critical?

The accusations -

• The accusations are horrible. If they could be proven, or even shown to be reasonably certain, I would hope all clubs would choose not to work with RG
• Though just because they are made doesn't mean they are true
• These have been investigated by the Gardai, the PSNI, the courts (family), and the DRA
• No conviction or sanction was imposed by any of these bodies
• In fact no charge or even arrest was ever made
• The DRA said there was no case to answer
• The PPS said that there were no grounds for a prosecution
• However, on the other hand, RG has never denied the accusations publicly

The accuser -

• Nicola clearly has personal issues apart from this direct accusation.
• The marriage ended toxically.
• With reference to the family court above. These accusations were considered as part of the custody hearings and yet the court granted RG full custody of the children.
• I hardly need to point out that full custody to a father is relatively rare.
• But that would not give him an excuse, even given a toxic environment, for physically assaulting a woman
• It is wrong to victim blame and women speaking up should be given the benefit of the doubt.
• But with all the investigations reaching conclusions in RG's favour it can't be denied that some doubt has been created.
• The lack of action would make me wonder what corroboration there was, Nicola claimed people were present, surely if they could back up the accusation there would at least have been some action?
• Equally, in no way unless it is proven otherwise, should Nicola's claims be dismissed. Such claims should be taken seriously.
• None of us can know for sure if the accusations are fact, but we can be sure that a young lady is deeply unhappy in life and that she is suffering. We should all wish her the best.
• The single most important thing is that we don't know. We don't know if he subjected her to violence, and we don't know if he didn't.

Jarlath Burns -

• Jarlath Burns has ignored the findings of the DRA
• He has used his position to put pressure on Naas
• Given all the doubt above, how much is not fully known, that would appear an overreach to me
• Is it not hypocritical? he has not intervened against any other individual despite plenty of GAA managers and players actually being convicted of offences in court
• It is hard to see that Burns has made this decision on anything other than social media.
• If his argument is that he doesn't want specifically abusers of women to be in the GAA then I ask if he has written to the club of the Armagh player, that was arrested for indecent assault recently, to be dropped by his club and county?

Work as a manger? -
Minor side comment here. In his statement Gallagher mentioned working as a manger. What is his tax return record on being employed as a manger? Isn't the GAA supposed to be volunteers? His admission of working should really be of interest to the Revenue Commissioners. (as i said complete side point)

Conclusions -

• We do not know if the accusations are fact
• We do know that Nicola is not in a good place and we should all be sympathetic to her
• We simply cannot state with certainty that RG has done anything to mean he does not deserve a coaching role in the GAA.
• But all investigations, including GAA, have cleared him and I don't think we have anything more to go on than to accept the findings of those with the detailed information.
• In my opinion he should not therefore be denied the opportunity to work unless other information can be proven
• This is the simplest one - In my opinion Jarlath Burns was out of order, going against his own DRA findings and singling out an individual. It was an abuse of his position and laced with hypocrisy

Finally, I do not think highly of him. I would tend to believe that there is at least some partial value in the accusations. I am drawn towards thinking that whatever happened, he was unlikely to have treated he kindly in their relationship. I don't think I would want to be associated with him. But I can't say there is any solid reason for preventing hm for taking a role he is offered.

Independent of all of that, with RG being cleared by the DRA, I think Jarlath Burns was very wrong.

Quote from: PAULD123 on January 09, 2025, 04:55:23 PMMy View:

Firstly it's complex, I don't think there is an simple way through it. But:

His Character -

• There are lots of people ready to comment that RG is unlikable
• Although you have to be cautious about bandwagon jumpers
• I have not heard a lot of people saying he's a lovey sweet guy
• So, I would conclude he may well not the nicest guy around
• But... is that critical?

The accusations -

• The accusations are horrible.
• Though just because they are made doesn't mean they are true
• These have been investigated by the Gardai, the PSNI, the courts (family), and the DRA
• No conviction or sanction was imposed by any of these bodies
• In fact no charge or even arrest was ever made
• The DRA said there was no case to answer
• The PPS said that there were no grounds for a prosecution
• However, on the other hand, RG has never denied the accusations publicly

The accuser -

• Nicola clearly has personal issues apart from this direct accusation.
• The marriage ended toxically.
• With reference to the family court above. These accusations were considered as part of the custody hearings and yet the court granted RG full custody of the children.
• I hardly need to point out that full custody to a father is relatively rare.
• But that would not give him an excuse, even given a toxic environment, for physically assaulting a woman
• It is wrong to victim blame and women speaking up should be given the benefit of the doubt.
• But with all the investigations reaching conclusions in RG's favour it can't be denied that some doubt has been created.
• The lack of action would make me wonder what corroboration there was, Nicola claimed people were present, surely if they could back up the accusation there would at least have been some action?
• Equally, in no way unless it is proven otherwise, should Nicola's claims be dismissed. Such claims should be taken seriously.
• None of us can know for sure if the accusations are fact, but we can be sure that a young lady is deeply unhappy in life and that she is suffering. We should all wish her the best.
• The single most important thing is that we don't know. We don't know if he subjected her to violence, and we don't know if he didn't.

Jarlath Burns -

• Jarlath Burns has ignored the findings of the DRA
• He has used his position to put pressure on Naas
• Given all the doubt above, how much is not fully known, that would appear an overreach to me
• Is it not hypocritical? he has not intervened against any other individual despite plenty of GAA managers and players actually being convicted of offences in court
• It is hard to see that Burns has made this decision on anything other than social media.
• If his argument is that he doesn't want specifically abusers of women to be in the GAA then I ask if he has written to the club of the Armagh player, that was arrested for indecent assault recently, to be dropped by his club and county?

Work as a manger? -

• Minor side comment here. In his statement Gallagher mentioned working as a manger. What is his tax return record on being employed as a manger? Isn't the GAA supposed to be volunteers? His admission of working should really be of interest to the Revenue Commissioners. (as i said complete side point)

Conclusions -

• We do not know if the accusations are fact
• We do know that Nicola is not in a good place and we should all be sympathetic to her
• We simply cannot state with certainty that RG has done anything to mean he does not deserve a coaching role in the GAA.
• But all investigations, including GAA, have cleared him and I don't think we have anything more to go on than to accept the findings of those with the detailed information.
• In my opinion he should not therefore be denied the opportunity to work unless other information can be proven
• This is the simplest one - In my opinion Jarlath Burns was out of order, going against his own DRA findings and singling out an individual. It was an abuse of his position and laced with hypocrisy

Finally, I do not think highly of him. I would tend to believe that there is at least some partial value in the accusations. I am drawn towards thinking that whatever happened, he was unlikely to have treated he kindly in their relationship. I don't think I would want to be associated with him. But I can't say there is any solid reason for preventing hm for taking a role he is offered.

Independent of all of that, with RG being cleared by the DRA, I think Jarlath Burns was very wrong.

If you don't mind me saying so, it's a bit bizarre bring up Rory's Tax Returns, surely that is nobody's business only his own and HMRC / RC .

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2025, 05:06:38 PMWas talking about the lad before you Pauld.

No bother. I thought I was quite careful in what I said (mind you I was careless and posted it twice, oops).

Although I think the other guy might be ok anyway. Just saying "allegedly" doesn't protect you, but naming the alleger generally does so long as they actually did allege it. From a law website - "If someone has actually alleged something, then the statement is true and therefore it cannot be defamatory. But if nobody has in fact made the allegation, then the statement is false. If it also damages reputation, it is defamatory."

Quote from: PAULD123 on January 09, 2025, 04:55:23 PMMy View:

Firstly it's complex, I don't think there is an simple way through it. But:

His Character -

• There are lots of people ready to comment that RG is unlikable
• Although you have to be cautious about bandwagon jumpers
• I have not heard a lot of people saying he's a lovey sweet guy
• So, I would conclude he may well not the nicest guy around
• But... is that critical?

The accusations -

• The accusations are horrible.
• Though just because they are made doesn't mean they are true
• These have been investigated by the Gardai, the PSNI, the courts (family), and the DRA
• No conviction or sanction was imposed by any of these bodies
• In fact no charge or even arrest was ever made
• The DRA said there was no case to answer
• The PPS said that there were no grounds for a prosecution
• However, on the other hand, RG has never denied the accusations publicly

The accuser -

• Nicola clearly has personal issues apart from this direct accusation.
• The marriage ended toxically.
• With reference to the family court above. These accusations were considered as part of the custody hearings and yet the court granted RG full custody of the children.
• I hardly need to point out that full custody to a father is relatively rare.
• But that would not give him an excuse, even given a toxic environment, for physically assaulting a woman
• It is wrong to victim blame and women speaking up should be given the benefit of the doubt.
• But with all the investigations reaching conclusions in RG's favour it can't be denied that some doubt has been created.
• The lack of action would make me wonder what corroboration there was, Nicola claimed people were present, surely if they could back up the accusation there would at least have been some action?
• Equally, in no way unless it is proven otherwise, should Nicola's claims be dismissed. Such claims should be taken seriously.
• None of us can know for sure if the accusations are fact, but we can be sure that a young lady is deeply unhappy in life and that she is suffering. We should all wish her the best.
• The single most important thing is that we don't know. We don't know if he subjected her to violence, and we don't know if he didn't.

Jarlath Burns -

• Jarlath Burns has ignored the findings of the DRA
• He has used his position to put pressure on Naas
• Given all the doubt above, how much is not fully known, that would appear an overreach to me
• Is it not hypocritical? he has not intervened against any other individual despite plenty of GAA managers and players actually being convicted of offences in court
• It is hard to see that Burns has made this decision on anything other than social media.
• If his argument is that he doesn't want specifically abusers of women to be in the GAA then I ask if he has written to the club of the Armagh player, that was arrested for indecent assault recently, to be dropped by his club and county?

Work as a manger? -

• Minor side comment here. In his statement Gallagher mentioned working as a manger. What is his tax return record on being employed as a manger? Isn't the GAA supposed to be volunteers? His admission of working should really be of interest to the Revenue Commissioners. (as i said complete side point)

Conclusions -

• We do not know if the accusations are fact
• We do know that Nicola is not in a good place and we should all be sympathetic to her
• We simply cannot state with certainty that RG has done anything to mean he does not deserve a coaching role in the GAA.
• But all investigations, including GAA, have cleared him and I don't think we have anything more to go on than to accept the findings of those with the detailed information.
• In my opinion he should not therefore be denied the opportunity to work unless other information can be proven
• This is the simplest one - In my opinion Jarlath Burns was out of order, going against his own DRA findings and singling out an individual. It was an abuse of his position and laced with hypocrisy

Finally, I do not think highly of him. I would tend to believe that there is at least some partial value in the accusations. I am drawn towards thinking that whatever happened, he was unlikely to have treated he kindly in their relationship. I don't think I would want to be associated with him. But I can't say there is any solid reason for preventing hm for taking a role he is offered.

Independent of all of that, with RG being cleared by the DRA, I think Jarlath Burns was very wrong.

Perfectly put and I'd agree with all of this.

Quote from: Halfquarter on January 09, 2025, 05:15:26 PMIf you don't mind me saying so, it's a bit bizarre bring up Rory's Tax Returns, surely that is nobody's business only his own and HMRC / RC .

I did say it was a minor point and a side point to the main discussion. It was just a bit of side interest for me because I have a degree in accountancy and my best subject was tax. lol

There a young lady played in the Camogie final with a assault conviction. A Limerick lad too in this years championship. I say at club football u got a fair few. The point is, why Burns jump into this one. I understand why Burns thought he had get involved, but when RG was with the Monaghan team last year and now.What was the point now emailing Naas. t's opened a can of worms and now have to enforce criminal related convictions of a serious nature  when he's enforcing accusations.

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 04:18:41 PM

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 09, 2025, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 09, 2025, 01:14:20 PM

Quote from: bogball88 on January 09, 2025, 12:16:34 PMRory Gallagher has accused the GAA president Jarlath Burns of trying to sabotage his career after he intervened in his potential appointment at Naas GAA.

In a statement to BBC News NI, Mr Gallagher said Mr Burns' actions were "unprecedented" and "misguided" and threatened legal action if the remarks were not retracted.

The former Derry county football manager was offered a coaching role with Naas but the offer was then withdrawn after details of the appointment were made public at the weekend.

It later emerged Mr Burns had contacted the club to express his concern at the proposed appointment.

Mr Gallagher stepped down as Derry manager in 2023 just weeks before the team played in the Ulster Senior Football Final.

It followed allegations of abuse made by his estranged wife Nicola Gallagher, which he denied.

When news of the appointment at Naas appeared in the media, the association's president spoke to the Naas club chairman before sending an email which was then read at a meeting of party officers at which it was decided not to proceed with Mr Gallagher's appointment.

In the email, which has been seen by the BBC, Mr Burns said he felt compelled to share his perspective given the "potential implications for Naas GAA and the wider association".

He said decisions made by the club "reverberate far beyond your immediate community" and send a "message about the values we uphold and the standards we set for our members and supporters".

He also warned of the implications for the GAA's Game Changer Initiative which was launched in November to challenge the "social and cultural norms that contribute to domestic, sexual and gender based violence".
Jarlath Burns has grey short hair and wears glasses with a grey frame. He is wearing a grey suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.
Image caption,

Mr Burns said employing Mr Gallagher could attract negative attention and criticism for the club

After Mr Gallagher resigned as Derry manager, he was "temporarily debarred" by the GAA in September 2023 when an independent panel was asked to investigate the claims made by his estranged wife.

Mr Gallagher successfully challenged that debarment in February 2024 and a statement from his solicitors in September said there was no "legal impediment" to prevent him returning to a senior role in the game.

"I have engaged with every procedure available to me. The PPS have issued two separate decisions finding that I have no case to answer," Mr Gallagher added in his statement to the BBC.

"Despite having engaged with due process and procedure, it seems clear that the president has now opted to take matters into his own hands.

"It seems that social media commentary and controversy now equates to a license for presidential intervention."

In the email to Naas GAA, Mr Burns said the "appointment of Rory Gallagher given the allegations that have been made public, risks undermining the principles of the Game Changer Initiative and the positive work being done across the GAA".

He added: "The controversy surrounding his personal life has created significant division and concern within the wider GAA community.

"Such a decision by Naas GAA could have far reaching consequences."

Mr Burns added the appointment would likely "polarise opinion" and create unnecessary tension within the club and he questioned the "confusing message" it would send to younger members.

In conclusion the GAA president said he had "no authority to dictate club decisions" but he had a "responsibility to advocate" for what he believed was in the best interests of the association and its members.

"By choosing not to proceed with this appointment you will be making a statement about the principles that define Naas GAA," he added.

Mr Gallagher has called on the GAA president to withdraw his remarks.

"I have never asked for sympathy or support. I do however ask that this action is formally withdrawn and the contents of the correspondence is retracted," he said.

"The president should lead by example and accept when he has overstepped the mark.

"Absent such a retraction, I will have no other alternative but to take legal action to cure the irreparable damage done to me and my family in my ability to continue to work as a manger in the years ahead."


Surely he means volunteer? ;D

He is 100% right to issue that statement, fair play to him. I don't like how he acts on the sidelines but there's been a complete witch hunt for him and it's surely taking a Toal on him and his family. Let the man get on with his life. Many people in the GAA have been convicted of things, served their time and are free to get back at it but just because RG is high profile he's not.

One simple question.
If he's going to court re. Jarlath why did he not issue libel proceedings against the wife of former Fermanagh player Stepen Maguire.
30 seconds on GOOGLE and I can find it.. it's pretty damning
If Gallagher disputes her account why not sue for libel.
I suspect the last place Gallagher wants to be is anywhere near a courtroom.

Yep - she might be telling the truth. But we'll never know.
And maybe he is suing for libel, how would we know if he is or isn't?

I would imagine the authorities would have spoken to the Maguire woman too. Again, GOOGLE is not a source of truth, its just a tool for throwing out information that may or may not be true.
If GOOGLE was the answer, just ask google if the perp is guilty at the next court case and save a fortune on solicitors, barristers and court time.

Quote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 04:18:41 PM

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 09, 2025, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 09, 2025, 01:14:20 PM

Quote from: bogball88 on January 09, 2025, 12:16:34 PMRory Gallagher has accused the GAA president Jarlath Burns of trying to sabotage his career after he intervened in his potential appointment at Naas GAA.

In a statement to BBC News NI, Mr Gallagher said Mr Burns' actions were "unprecedented" and "misguided" and threatened legal action if the remarks were not retracted.

The former Derry county football manager was offered a coaching role with Naas but the offer was then withdrawn after details of the appointment were made public at the weekend.

It later emerged Mr Burns had contacted the club to express his concern at the proposed appointment.

Mr Gallagher stepped down as Derry manager in 2023 just weeks before the team played in the Ulster Senior Football Final.

It followed allegations of abuse made by his estranged wife Nicola Gallagher, which he denied.

When news of the appointment at Naas appeared in the media, the association's president spoke to the Naas club chairman before sending an email which was then read at a meeting of party officers at which it was decided not to proceed with Mr Gallagher's appointment.

In the email, which has been seen by the BBC, Mr Burns said he felt compelled to share his perspective given the "potential implications for Naas GAA and the wider association".

He said decisions made by the club "reverberate far beyond your immediate community" and send a "message about the values we uphold and the standards we set for our members and supporters".

He also warned of the implications for the GAA's Game Changer Initiative which was launched in November to challenge the "social and cultural norms that contribute to domestic, sexual and gender based violence".
Jarlath Burns has grey short hair and wears glasses with a grey frame. He is wearing a grey suit, white shirt and burgundy tie.
Image caption,

Mr Burns said employing Mr Gallagher could attract negative attention and criticism for the club

After Mr Gallagher resigned as Derry manager, he was "temporarily debarred" by the GAA in September 2023 when an independent panel was asked to investigate the claims made by his estranged wife.

Mr Gallagher successfully challenged that debarment in February 2024 and a statement from his solicitors in September said there was no "legal impediment" to prevent him returning to a senior role in the game.

"I have engaged with every procedure available to me. The PPS have issued two separate decisions finding that I have no case to answer," Mr Gallagher added in his statement to the BBC.

"Despite having engaged with due process and procedure, it seems clear that the president has now opted to take matters into his own hands.

"It seems that social media commentary and controversy now equates to a license for presidential intervention."

In the email to Naas GAA, Mr Burns said the "appointment of Rory Gallagher given the allegations that have been made public, risks undermining the principles of the Game Changer Initiative and the positive work being done across the GAA".

He added: "The controversy surrounding his personal life has created significant division and concern within the wider GAA community.

"Such a decision by Naas GAA could have far reaching consequences."

Mr Burns added the appointment would likely "polarise opinion" and create unnecessary tension within the club and he questioned the "confusing message" it would send to younger members.

In conclusion the GAA president said he had "no authority to dictate club decisions" but he had a "responsibility to advocate" for what he believed was in the best interests of the association and its members.

"By choosing not to proceed with this appointment you will be making a statement about the principles that define Naas GAA," he added.

Mr Gallagher has called on the GAA president to withdraw his remarks.

"I have never asked for sympathy or support. I do however ask that this action is formally withdrawn and the contents of the correspondence is retracted," he said.

"The president should lead by example and accept when he has overstepped the mark.

"Absent such a retraction, I will have no other alternative but to take legal action to cure the irreparable damage done to me and my family in my ability to continue to work as a manger in the years ahead."


Surely he means volunteer? ;D

He is 100% right to issue that statement, fair play to him. I don't like how he acts on the sidelines but there's been a complete witch hunt for him and it's surely taking a Toal on him and his family. Let the man get on with his life. Many people in the GAA have been convicted of things, served their time and are free to get back at it but just because RG is high profile he's not.

One simple question.
If he's going to court re. Jarlath why did he not issue libel proceedings against the wife of former Fermanagh player Stepen Maguire.
30 seconds on GOOGLE and I can find it.. it's pretty damning
If Gallagher disputes her account why not sue for libel.
I suspect the last place Gallagher wants to be is anywhere near a courtroom.

Yep - she might be telling the truth. But we'll never know.
And maybe he is suing for libel, how would we know if he is or isn't?

I would imagine the authorities would have spoken to the Maguire woman too. Again, GOOGLE is not a source of truth, its just a tool for throwing out information that may or may not be true.
If GOOGLE was the answer, just ask google if the perp is guilty at the next court case and save a fortune on solicitors, barristers and court time.

Firstly referring to" the Maguire woman" shows a level of disrespect (not needed).
Not sure if you are being disingenuous or just totally missed the point.
You state he may be suing her. I'd wager if he was it would be fairly common knowledge. Every man and his dog knows the name of the Armagh player being investigated reference the trip to America
The point is that a quick Google can find the tweet that the lady made.
If it were libelous it would have been removed either voluntarily or at the request of Mr. Gallagher's legal team.
The reference to " the perp" just smacks of a teenage child.
The accused/ the alleged guilty party/ the person about whoom the allegations have been made?

Not sure why teams and counties would be bothered at this stage

I think the major issues here is that we dont and wont know the full background.  Without quoting everything written above there's a number of issues i have with this overall.

1. Firstly the starting position involving any criminal allegation is that the accused individual is innocent until proven guilty.  That is not the same as innocent but does mean they are entitled to that presumption and that is the starting point from which everything flows.

2.  We also know that there was not one but two criminal investigations into the alleged conduct and no criminal charges were brought.  We don't know the reasons for that but there are many of potential reasons for that. It is though significant

3. There has been a finding of fact by a competent court in respect of custody of the children whom I understand with RG.  Whilst we don't know exactly what that finding was that remains significant albeit the caveat that no fact finding tribunal is infallible.

4.  Allegations have been made and corroborated on social media.  The corroboration is significant but again must be viewed in the context of points 2 and 3.

5. We know exactly the reasons for the DRA decision and whilst its been a long time since I read it seemed to be more procedurally based than substantive based and focused on the contradictory powers within GAA rules on safeguarding issues. That said my memory of same is that it renders RG not banned within the organisation on a safeguarding issues.

6. There's a suggestion within one of the links that there is a safeguarding report in the possession of Ulster GAA/HQ.  I am not clear what exactly that is but that, if correct is significant, although it begs the question why RG remains not barred from the association if such a report has reached conclusions that there are issues.

7. Naas sought to appoint RG but were contacted by the president.  Again a significant issue but one that raises many further questions.  Namely was such an intervention within his presidential powers?  Is he in possession of more information than we are? etc etc

In summation I think this is a fundamentally difficult case, where we dont have all the necessary information to make a properly informed judgement.  I do though go back to my first point.  RG is entitled to the presumption of innocence, he is not barred from taking up roles within the association.  If those that seek to appoint him are in receipt of enough information to make a properly informed decision then I dont think the GAA president should be interfering in their appointment process.  There are processes within the association they should either be followed or overhauled.  An ad hoc approach on a case by case basis does not serve anyone's interests particularly not the association. 

Thanks David; as always an informed and useful post.
On point 6: the fact that a report was commissioned is in the public domain, but the content is not. I think this is significant,along with the decision by the GAA to formally join a partnership with Ruhama and White Ribbon Ireland in November; one of the commitments was to 'encourage men and boys to engage in active allyship to eradicate gender-based violence in society'.
Therefore while I understand your conclusion in the final paragraph, I disagree with it, and believe Jarlath was correct to become involved.

I hope active allyship doesn't include jumping to conclusions

While I don't expect Jarlath to be over every jot and tittle and each case,  if he can't get involved in a high profile case that isn't subject to court proceedings then when can he?

Perhaps he's seen the police referral report to the PPS (that we the public haven't seen) and made his own judgement? 

He's the president of the GAA - buck stops with him

President, aka judge jury and executioner

Interesting to see if this extends to the orchard

Who in the 50 shades of buckfast does the buck stop with there?

Quote from: Spike on January 09, 2025, 09:26:42 PMWhile I don't expect Jarlath to be over every jot and tittle and each case,  if he can't get involved in a high profile case that isn't subject to court proceedings then when can he?

Perhaps he's seen the police referral report to the PPS (that we the public haven't seen) and made his own judgement? 

He's the president of the GAA - buck stops with him

If Jarlath had such valid evidence that he feels justified in intervening then why hasn't the GAA acted in an official capacity to ban RG?

It's wrong no matter what way. Either there isn't valid evidence and so Jarlath was wrong to act.  Or there is valid evidence and the GAA was wrong to not act. Either way its a massive failing.

Also if there is valid evidence then why didn't the DRA see it? Because their conclusion wasn't that it wasn't a strong enough case, their conclusion was that they're was no case to answer. 

When can he get involved was your question? Well my answer is that he shouldn't ever.  Not personally and directly anyway.  He is in charge of a whole organisation with official vehicles for dealing with theses matters.  He should never circumvent the organisation he is meant to lead, he should only ever direct the official process.

And by the way. The Armagh player arrested for indecent assault is high profile (All- Ireland champion) and not being acted on by our courts. Why hasn't he written to Armagh to ask them to drop him?

I think he Burns has prevented a storm here. That's why it's different to other GAA members who have been in court or charged. I do expect consistency regarding the latest Armagh scandal but I'd say no one can comment at the minute as it's a live case, maybe?

The fact is that RG continuing to manage is a bad look for the GAA who are trying to support women more within the organisation.
If we change the lens to not assuming that the allegations are false, then he can't just walk back into a position of responsibility as, whether he likes it or not, he is high profile now.
I don't think anyone should be talking about the mental state of the accuser without knowing the mental state of the accused. It's a very one sided way of looking at it and taints our opinion of whether the allegations are true or not
The fact that RG doesn't back away from coaching does suggest a lack of grip on reality and disregard for clubs that he is managing and people who are genuinely upset by the whole sorry state. Jaysus, read the room, take up something else. 

You can't really blame men like Jarlath, they have their wives breathing down their necks. If he didn't intervene he would have a lot to listen to at home.

The question is will Jarlath have a problem with the Armagh player involved in assault playing for his club? Gallagher isn't allowed to be involved in a club yet others are? The likes of McFaul and Kyle Hayes climbed the Hogan steps. Is that a bad look for the GAA too?

Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 09, 2025, 08:49:14 PMThanks David; as always an informed and useful post.
On point 6: the fact that a report was commissioned is in the public domain, but the content is not. I think this is significant,along with the decision by the GAA to formally join a partnership with Ruhama and White Ribbon Ireland in November; one of the commitments was to 'encourage men and boys to engage in active allyship to eradicate gender-based violence in society'.
Therefore while I understand your conclusion in the final paragraph, I disagree with it, and believe Jarlath was correct to become involved.

Its a fair position to hold and I wouldnt criticise it.  My criticism of his involvement is more based on the impact of the structures within the association.  There are mandated bodies and processes set out within the various strands of the associations intertwined rules and operating procedures.  Given my job and my regular involvement particularly in the past with theses different procedures my concern is the involvement of the president as far as I can see stepping outside his remit within those rules and procedure is a dangerous precedent.  Either the procedures are robust and effective and therefore can not be over ruled by the President or they arent and the president should be championing reform.  My concern is that by interferring on an ad hoc basis the impression is given the President didnt like the outcome of the associations proceedures and bowed to public pressure and/or his own feelings on the matter, which is of little use moving forward.   

Let me know, when he trys to change the name of Kevin Lynchs, can't wait for Brolly to go to town on him, on that regard.

Another old case jumps out from America. involving Pittsburgh QB Ben Roethlisberger, when he was accused of Rape. Not once but twice  [first settled out of court, 2nd He was suspended for 4 games, but no chargrd. then he was back playing. The issue always arises up from time to time the whole way through his career. And I not go into Ray Lewis [Ravens)shooting someone. As far as this issue, the man guilty by social media and public opinion, but not where it should count court. But we people playing. Convicted of serious assaults in camogie and hurling playing.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 10, 2025, 01:29:29 AMAnother old case jumps out from America. involving Pittsburgh QB Ben Roethlisberger, when he was accused of Rape. Not once but twice  [first settled out of court, 2nd He was suspended for 4 games, but no chargrd. then he was back playing. The issue always arises up from time to time the whole way through his career. And I not go into Ray Lewis [Ravens)shooting someone. As far as this issue, the man guilty by social media and public opinion, but not where it should count court. But we people playing. Convicted of serious assaults in camogie and hurling playing.

Would be a matter for the Camogie leadership, who I'm sure have followed due process and have valid reasons to endorse the perpetrator continuing to play, probably active allyship

Only 5% of Domestic Abuse cases end up in convictions so either a lot of females are telling lies or the legal system isn't fit for purpose.  The police report to the PPS hasn't been made public but they have recommended some action, to which the PPS say they cant guarantee a conviction with it.   

But some of the above posts are extremely worrying. It appears some are advocating that no matter the crime, the perp should be allowed back into the GAA and JB, as leader of our organisation, should ignore it, no matter how high profile. The agenda being that RG should be allowed back in, to deliver Derry an All-Ireland, as the eyewitnesses should not be believed.

And even if they were believed, on the grand scale of things Domestic Abuse against females is on the lower scale of crimes. Remember RG was reported to the GAA 24 years ago and it was brushed under the carpet.

JB hasn't forced Naas to do anything.  If Naas had accepted RG there was nothing JB could do.

Maybe, just maybe, this is the start of a process of JB cleaning up the GAA's act, finally protecting our female members, promoting heavily the Game Changer Inititive and setting a zero tolerance on characters deemed unbefitting the stature of the GAA, regardless of how much success they can bring?

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on January 09, 2025, 06:38:09 PMFirstly referring to" the Maguire woman" shows a level of disrespect (not needed).
Not sure if you are being disingenuous or just totally missed the point.
You state he may be suing her. I'd wager if he was it would be fairly common knowledge. Every man and his dog knows the name of the Armagh player being investigated reference the trip to America
The point is that a quick Google can find the tweet that the lady made.
If it were libelous it would have been removed either voluntarily or at the request of Mr. Gallagher's legal team.
The reference to " the perp" just smacks of a teenage child.
The accused/ the alleged guilty party/ the person about whoom the allegations have been made?

Referring to the "Maguire woman" is not intended as disrespect - I don't know her or her husbands first name, it's just a turn of phrase so wind your neck in. If you want to go back through any of my posts you'll struggle to find anywhere where I have disrespected RG's ex, the Maguire woman, or anyone else for that matter.
Not my bag.

And I'm being entirely genuine whereas you are surmising by using language like "I'd wager if he was"...
That's just guesswork. We don't know if he's suing and that's fact.

I was using the word "perp" as a shortened term for "perpetrator" as in "perpetrator of a crime". Just to spell it out for you - I wasn't referring to RG, I was giving a hypothetical example. So you're a child...I'm not...and if you call me one again I'm telling.

::)

https://learning.gaa.ie/gamechanger

If the GAA LGFA and Camogie are in lockstep with regards to Game Changer and integration then it needs to work both ways and gender based DV perpetrated against men needs to result in the same outcomes for the offending females

Then there's the small matter of an issue within the Armagh county setup, and if JB isn't going to address that in a similar manner then he's taken an a la carte approach and undermined the whole initiative and the GAAs internal disciplinary and safeguarding processes

The GAA (and future integrated incarnation) is basically going to become a sloganeering bandwagon that attempts to solve all society's ills while self-flagellating itself that it cant, apparently its a place 'Where We All Belong' until someone decides you don't depending on furore/profile

As stated in a previous post RG's children are the collateral and that is desperately sad

The GAA needs to stop trying to be the cure to all Ireland's ills and throwing people under the bus to make a point based on virtue signalling

The barometer here should be rules/regs/processes, evidence and risk - a JB solo run serves none of these and active allyship is nowhere near robust enough as a tool (just another slogan) for blanket roll-out given the absence of training or guidance and the propensity of people to jump to conclusions

If the Armagh boy is off the panel is it not addressed? What would he do to address it?

FWIW it is obvious that Gallagher is not good one however I think Burns has overstepped here. There should be conscience at play here wrt the club etc and there wasn't but it does look like Gallagher will never "work" again. If the GAA didn't ban him then I don't get how they do this.

Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2025, 11:05:56 AMIf the Armagh boy is off the panel is it not addressed? What would he do to address it?

FWIW it is obvious that Gallagher is not good one however I think Burns has overstepped here. There should be conscience at play here wrt the club etc and there wasn't but it does look like Gallagher will never "work" again. If the GAA didn't ban him then I don't get how they do this.

Is he still going to play club football? If he is then going by Burns logic he will need to contact his club to ensure they know they are damaging the GAA by allowing that, its how it works right?

It's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

Well I guess the question is what is the definition of addressed. It's a question which pretty much highlights the can of worms that has just been opened.

FWIW and I'm no expert on this but I do also believe the Burns overstepped the mark with Naas GAA in getting involved in all of it.

However Naas and whoever wishes to appoint any coach, either internally or externally have a duty to assess the "risks" involved with those appointments, not just Gallagher.

In reality is Gallagher a risk to the senior footballers in Naas, probably not, but I'd have serious reservations about appointing him to a ladies team, but that's all hypothetical.

It's a really grey area as we're seeing with others within the associations being found guilty of serious assaults and yet there's no issue.

I like Burns but if he tries to be all things to all people he's going to make a balls of it.

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:18:18 AMIt's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

It's a very different scenario. Defamation is a good deal more complicated than that.

Quote from: David McKeown on January 10, 2025, 11:26:55 AM

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:18:18 AMIt's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

It's a very different scenario. Defamation is a good deal more complicated than that.

I appreciate that, but surely an innocent individual would at least instruct his solicitor to make a bit of noise either through a public statement or letters to persons making the defamation. He didn't hang about with JB.

What,you mean like Gerry Adams trying to sue anybody saying he's in the IRA, good luck with that.

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:18:18 AMIt's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

Empty threats and hot air.    If he cant take the eyewitnesses to court, a watery email from JB isn't going to go far. The last place RG wants to be in is a courtroom where documented evidence comes into the public domain. He needs to exist in the grey areas where his morally bankrupt supporters can feel comfortable. 

Quote from: Spike on January 10, 2025, 12:27:43 PM

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:18:18 AMIt's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

Empty threats and hot air.    If he cant take the eyewitnesses to court, a watery email from JB isn't going to go far. The last place RG wants to be in is a courtroom where documented evidence comes into the public domain. He needs to exist in the grey areas where his morally bankrupt supporters can feel comfortable. 

If he takes burns to court none of the stuff about gallagher would be discussed. The issue would be if burns has acted within the powers that he has as president and has the gaa been consistent and fair in applying these powers.

JB is a one man morality police, will be very very interesting to see his approach in the orchard

Quote from: Spike on January 10, 2025, 12:27:43 PM

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:18:18 AMIt's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

Empty threats and hot air.    If he cant take the eyewitnesses to court, a watery email from JB isn't going to go far. The last place RG wants to be in is a courtroom where documented evidence comes into the public domain. He needs to exist in the grey areas where his morally bankrupt supporters can feel comfortable. 

Do you know any players locally, that have went to court for assault and still playing? How's the moral compass on those?  ;)

Quote from: Norm-Peterson on January 09, 2025, 11:16:14 PMYou can't really blame men like Jarlath, they have their wives breathing down their necks. If he didn't intervene he would have a lot to listen to at home.

The question is will Jarlath have a problem with the Armagh player involved in assault playing for his club? Gallagher isn't allowed to be involved in a club yet others are? The likes of McFaul and Kyle Hayes climbed the Hogan steps. Is that a bad look for the GAA too?

I don't remember Suzanne Burns being voted in as GAA president.

Quote from: tiempo on January 10, 2025, 01:00:29 PMJB is a one man morality police, will be very very interesting to see his approach in the orchard

Is having a leader with morals a bad thing now?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2025, 01:24:22 PM

Quote from: Spike on January 10, 2025, 12:27:43 PM

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:18:18 AMIt's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

Empty threats and hot air.    If he cant take the eyewitnesses to court, a watery email from JB isn't going to go far. The last place RG wants to be in is a courtroom where documented evidence comes into the public domain. He needs to exist in the grey areas where his morally bankrupt supporters can feel comfortable. 

Do you know any players locally, that have went to court for assault and still playing? How's the moral compass on those?   

I don't so my moral compass is just fine.

I think the issues are getting confused:

Issue 1 - Are the accusations about RG true
Issue 2 - Was Burns correct to intervene in the way he did

It is possible the first answer to be YES but the second to be NO. Burns' intervention is not dependent on him being right that RG is guilty or unsuitable. Even if that is true, even if RG did do it, even if if is a horrible person, Burns is not necessarily correct to intervene personally.

Burns is not wrong or right based on the accusations being true. Burns is wrong because he circumvented the very structures in the organization he is supposed to lead. He should have worked within the GAA structure or reformed it to work better. He undermined their process and authority. He also acted selectively not universally (which is hypocritical). Burns has made his organization look weak.

So for me - Burns was wrong to do what he did, even if he could be correct that RG is unsuitable to coach.

(Although, don't forget, the DRA said that there was no case for him not being allowed to coach)

Quote from: tiempo on January 10, 2025, 01:00:29 PMJB is a one man morality police, will be very very interesting to see his approach in the orchard

You make it sound as if having a leader with morals is a negative?  Perhaps i'm reading that wrong

For those interested the DRA Ruling: http://www.sportsdra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/24.02.26-Final-Decision.pdf

It questions the authority to debar but does not dismiss the safeguarding judgement.

Quote from: Spike on January 10, 2025, 01:44:51 PM

Quote from: tiempo on January 10, 2025, 01:00:29 PMJB is a one man morality police, will be very very interesting to see his approach in the orchard

Is having a leader with morals a bad thing now?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2025, 01:24:22 PM

Quote from: Spike on January 10, 2025, 12:27:43 PM

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:18:18 AMIt's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

Empty threats and hot air.    If he cant take the eyewitnesses to court, a watery email from JB isn't going to go far. The last place RG wants to be in is a courtroom where documented evidence comes into the public domain. He needs to exist in the grey areas where his morally bankrupt supporters can feel comfortable. 

Do you know any players locally, that have went to court for assault and still playing? How's the moral compass on those?   

I don't so my moral compass is just fine.

You don't? Hmm interesting

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:34:57 AM

Quote from: David McKeown on January 10, 2025, 11:26:55 AM

Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2025, 11:18:18 AMIt's funny how Rory Gallagher will publicly threaten Burns with legal action but not anyone who made defamatory allegations against a supposed innocent man.

It's a very different scenario. Defamation is a good deal more complicated than that.

I appreciate that, but surely an innocent individual would at least instruct his solicitor to make a bit of noise either through a public statement or letters to persons making the defamation. He didn't hang about with JB.

No not necessarily there are potential issues which may or may not be live in this case when people are for example simply repeating what they themselves said in court proceedings.

By way of example if you accuse me of a serious crime in a witness box under oath you have a cast iron defence to a defamation claim. If you then repeat that in a public arena you still have potentially a defence but it gets trickier.

When the original claim is made in a court that's not public the issue becomes even murkier.

I don't know if RG considered defamation proceedings and if he did whether they were perused or not and if not why not but I do know that it's not just as simple as they said this untrue thing so we should sue and if we don't we accept it.  Although it could still be that but I'd be speculating

The crux of this is one rule for one person and a different one for someone else. That's the corner Jarleth has backed himself into now and this will follow him around for the rest of his term.

Quote from: PAULD123 on January 10, 2025, 01:45:14 PMI think the issues are getting confused:

Issue 1 - Are the accusations about RG true
Issue 2 - Was Burns correct to intervene in the way he did

It is possible the first answer to be YES but the second to be NO. Burns' intervention is not dependent on him being right that RG is guilty or unsuitable. Even if that is true, even if RG did do it, even if if is a horrible person, Burns is not necessarily correct to intervene personally.

Burns is not wrong or right based on the accusations being true. Burns is wrong because he circumvented the very structures in the organization he is supposed to lead. He should have worked within the GAA structure or reformed it to work better. He undermined their process and authority. He also acted selectively not universally (which is hypocritical). Burns has made his organization look weak.

So for me - Burns was wrong to do what he did, even if he could be correct that RG is unsuitable to coach.

(Although, don't forget, the DRA said that there was no case for him not being allowed to coach)

Did they? from memory and it's been a while since I read the decision but my memory was that the rules on punishments regarding safeguarding were at odds with the official guide and therefore were of no force and effect.

Interestingly statistics would show there are multiple men up and down the country who are involved in coaching and playing who have convictions and have been interviewed under caution etc but people are not calling for their heads.

At the end of the day RG was interviewed for various accusations. The courts decided there was no case to answer. That's it, end of.

He has every right to defend his name and coach in GAA if he wants.

Trail by social media.

As my point above... how many players are playing and men are coaching who have been accused of crimes, done interviews under caution etc they are not even obligated to disclose but RG is hung out to dry because his ex partner put up a social media post... no case to answer yet here we are convicting him.

He has no case to answer and that's the bottom line. Move on.

Most people in here seem to think he should be allowed to coach again. Is there a change in public opinion happening? Or gaa public anyway

As an outside observer to this I was shocked by some of what was quoted as being part of the e-mail from Jarlath Burns.
Does this mean that everyone with convictions (or even accusations but no charges) relating to people be deemed not suitable by the GAA?
There's a high profile case of an inter county hurler with a conviction for assault but he is allowed to take a hurl onto a pitch and play an aggressive game. I have no issue with that but should Jarlath if he was being fair across the board?

Should companies who support the highlighting of these issues refuse to employ some? Where does it stop? Is banning people for mistakes made going to improve the scenarios? Where does the level of ban start/stop based on offences?

One way to possibly help this is for RG to take part in a course relating to the behaviour he was accused of - would this be deemed suitable to show he is aiming to be a better person??
Although that may be deemed an acceptance of guilt to the behaviour and thus not suit the person involved. .

Not sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

where do we draw the line though? plenty of people have been convicted served their time and should reintegrate to society, that includes GAA. we constantly hear about people who have turned their life around etc. just think its messy

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

A community organisation and what, someone has a conviction and that's it as far as the GAA goes? Should this be the same in wider society, no second chance in your opinion? No way to try and redemm yourself and do something positive? Leaves people doing / contributing what for the remainder of their lives?

Quote from: JoG2 on January 10, 2025, 04:15:41 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

A community organisation and what, someone has a conviction and that's it as far as the GAA goes? Should this be the same in wider society, no second chance in your opinion? No way to try and redemm yourself and do something positive? Leaves people doing / contributing what for the remainder of their lives?

Obviously depends on the convention but is someone with a serious assualt convention or someone with a sexual offence really someone you want kids cheering on and looking up to?

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 10, 2025, 04:08:35 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

where do we draw the line though? plenty of people have been convicted served their time and should reintegrate to society, that includes GAA. we constantly hear about people who have turned their life around etc. just think its messy

It is very tricky but in the gaa we have players who nearly killed ones in street fights and on the pitch we had fights and eye goughing which is going to leave someone seriously injured in the future.

On the other side of the argument do we as a organization just accept everyone and anyone no matter what they have done?

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on January 10, 2025, 04:15:41 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

A community organisation and what, someone has a conviction and that's it as far as the GAA goes? Should this be the same in wider society, no second chance in your opinion? No way to try and redemm yourself and do something positive? Leaves people doing / contributing what for the remainder of their lives?

Obviously depends on the convention but is someone with a serious assualt convention or someone with a sexual offence really someone you want kids cheering on and looking up to?

Who has a serious sexual assault conviction that is currently playing / managing? There must be some, I personally wouldn't know any

Quote from: JoG2 on January 10, 2025, 04:51:53 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on January 10, 2025, 04:15:41 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

A community organisation and what, someone has a conviction and that's it as far as the GAA goes? Should this be the same in wider society, no second chance in your opinion? No way to try and redemm yourself and do something positive? Leaves people doing / contributing what for the remainder of their lives?

Obviously depends on the convention but is someone with a serious assualt convention or someone with a sexual offence really someone you want kids cheering on and looking up to?

Who has a serious sexual assault conviction that is currently playing / managing? There must be some, I personally wouldn't know any

Not sure if there is anyone currently or not. It was an example but depending on the current ongoing there maybe one.

Burns opened up a can of worms with this one but doesnt mean it wasnt the right decision.

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on January 10, 2025, 04:15:41 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

A community organisation and what, someone has a conviction and that's it as far as the GAA goes? Should this be the same in wider society, no second chance in your opinion? No way to try and redemm yourself and do something positive? Leaves people doing / contributing what for the remainder of their lives?

Obviously depends on the convention but is someone with a serious assualt convention or someone with a sexual offence really someone you want kids cheering on and looking up to?

Of course not, but where or how in the GAA can we compare one crime with another?
Does Assault trump death by dangerous driving? OR Drunk driving? Or Fraud? Or tax evasion?
And in the RG case, there is no legal conviction - so how do they manage that?
Regardless of what people "know" was happening for years, the line in the sand has to be legal convictions and even then the current GAA regs have no capacity to assess this. All we have is the safeguarding guidelines.
Any other approach just leaves it open to interpretation and means anyone could allege anything potentially resulting in informal exclusion from the organisation.

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

What .... ????
Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Forgive me but this would be my belief.. he is innocent until proven guilty. That's our legal system and is mostly around the world ... you want to say he is not innocent? How does that work ??? Explain ....
Would that not be defamatory?

Gallagher is innocent of the alleged crimes. Unless he is found guilty.

G, I played with a man caught with ashit load of semtex in the house, could cleaned out the whole housing estate. Plus done for armed robbery too. Same man played for 5/6yrs in the Derry league after a long spell in jail. Should everybody just have turned there back on him. There were alot more hard-line men playing then, who I say still involved in GAA clubs in Derry. Wheres the line here. Surely a man needs to be convicted of a serious offence to be debarred. And a list of those offences would need be in the GAA handbook on what is a category to debar.

The example while tragic is more than appropriate

Having just fucked up the football rules JB is presenting as quite the extremist

Quote from: ElJeffe on January 10, 2025, 05:53:44 PM

Quote from: tyrone08 on January 10, 2025, 03:59:15 PMNot sure what to think about it all.

I have heard the stories about RG from neighbour's of his years before it broke on the news. Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Many of the examples about players guilty of assaults were well before burns took over however now that he has stepped in he needs to continue it especially with the recent armagh player.

Its probably about time the gaa took a stand on players with criminal convictions as its not a good look for the organization and we need to be setting examples for the younger players on however it needs to be across the board.

What .... ????
Just because he wasnt found guilty doesnt mean he is innocent, there is a huge difference.

Forgive me but this would be my belief.. he is innocent until proven guilty. That's our legal system and is mostly around the world ... you want to say he is not innocent? How does that work ??? Explain ....
Would that not be defamatory?

Well the court system has to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that someone is guilty. Domestic abuse is extremely hard to prove as there are no witnesses its often one word against another.

If i hit my wife but there was no witnesses then i am guilty wither convicted or not.

We can reasonably be sure OJ simpson did it but if got off.

I am sure we all know ones or have read about ones committing crimes but have gotten off on a technicality, this doesnt mean they didnt do it.

I rather seen him intervene in a number of issues in the rulebook, the endless appeals. The playacting now in fball,the a man can take the head off u with a bad tackle at head level. and get a yellow, Somebody pushes somebody off lightly around the head,and they get a red. The constant grappling on the throw up. The lack of sportsman in the game, and mouthing trying to get players send off. The inconsistency of refs from game to game. The massive payments especially at club level outside managers get, on teams who never win a championship.

Yer man is damaged goods to say the least. Why any club would bother is beyond me, guaranteed deep division straight away. It's easy to pick apart on precedents etc, but I support Jarlath on this one.

We don't know what drove RG to behave as he allegedly did, was he himself abused as a child, this stuff is best left to the professionals, the courts, care bodies and the like, 80% of suicides in Ireland are men, what are the underlying reasons, Jarlath has abused his largely ceremonial position creating an onward chain of events that are outside his control, involving a man and his children, begorrah soundbites and DV initiatives are one thing, but singling RG out is a gross overreach into the domain of someone's personal life, bringing it to national attention from his lofty and secure position

I'm not an RG supporter or apologist but JB has used a bully boy tactic in throwing his weight around, showing a lack of leadership and tact

JB cuts a seriously impressive figure with an incredible resume but he needs to take off the rose tinted glasses, the GAA and its future incarnation cannot solve all Irelands ills and cannot cover all eventualities, especially those already through the courts and the GAA organisational safeguarding processes

If hear that he was cleared of any wrongdoing in court, so move on, I'll go mad. What happens in court is not reality. There are people in the North who have been involved in planning and executing hundreds of murders in my area who have been 'proven' innocent in court. It's a serious issue and needs to be addressed. Same with Kyle Hayes and I'm sure others. They should not be in the position of role models.  Young people need to uderstand that there is a consequence to their actions even if the get off with the charge. GAA have an opportunity to be clear on what they expect from their role models. They are the face of the GAA. Don't talk to me about courts.

So in short, social media wins the day.

Quote from: Whishtup on January 10, 2025, 08:26:49 PMIf hear that he was cleared of any wrongdoing in court, so move on, I'll go mad. What happens in court is not reality. There are people in the North who have been involved in planning and executing hundreds of murders in my area who have been 'proven' innocent in court. It's a serious issue and needs to be addressed. Same with Kyle Hayes and I'm sure others. They should not be in the position of role models.  Young people need to uderstand that there is a consequence to their actions even if the get off with the charge. GAA have an opportunity to be clear on what they expect from their role models. They are the face of the GAA. Don't talk to me about courts.

Why is being good at football or hurling make you a role model? If we got rid of every player who wasn't fit to be a role model we'd have plenty of clubs failing to field. It's really getting silly now.

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 10, 2025, 08:52:28 PM

Quote from: Whishtup on January 10, 2025, 08:26:49 PMIf hear that he was cleared of any wrongdoing in court, so move on, I'll go mad. What happens in court is not reality. There are people in the North who have been involved in planning and executing hundreds of murders in my area who have been 'proven' innocent in court. It's a serious issue and needs to be addressed. Same with Kyle Hayes and I'm sure others. They should not be in the position of role models.  Young people need to uderstand that there is a consequence to their actions even if the get off with the charge. GAA have an opportunity to be clear on what they expect from their role models. They are the face of the GAA. Don't talk to me about courts.

Why is being good at football or hurling make you a role model? If we got rid of every player who wasn't fit to be a role model we'd have plenty of clubs failing to field. It's really getting silly now.

That's a ridiculous comment. Fairly standard stuff that Managers of any team should be a role model. Or a county player. If that's not the goal what are we at? Don't underestimate the influence that these people have over young people.

Seems some people are more influenced by their actions off the pitch than on it.

Quote from: Whishtup on January 10, 2025, 09:01:51 PM

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 10, 2025, 08:52:28 PM

Quote from: Whishtup on January 10, 2025, 08:26:49 PMIf hear that he was cleared of any wrongdoing in court, so move on, I'll go mad. What happens in court is not reality. There are people in the North who have been involved in planning and executing hundreds of murders in my area who have been 'proven' innocent in court. It's a serious issue and needs to be addressed. Same with Kyle Hayes and I'm sure others. They should not be in the position of role models.  Young people need to uderstand that there is a consequence to their actions even if the get off with the charge. GAA have an opportunity to be clear on what they expect from their role models. They are the face of the GAA. Don't talk to me about courts.

Why is being good at football or hurling make you a role model? If we got rid of every player who wasn't fit to be a role model we'd have plenty of clubs failing to field. It's really getting silly now.

That's a ridiculous comment. Fairly standard stuff that Managers of any team should be a role model. Or a county player. If that's not the goal what are we at? Don't underestimate the influence that these people have over young people.

It's not really, players play, managers mange. I'll try and guide my kids in lift in what is right and wrong not a fella who is good at kicking a ball about. I know plenty of lads who played county football who you most certainly wouldn't say are role models but I'm going off point so il just leave it, agree to disagree

Kids tend to idolise county players though. It doesn't matter whether they should or shouldn't- they do. Then in a lot of cases they get older and realise being good at football doesn't make you a good person..

Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 10, 2025, 08:52:28 PM

Quote from: Whishtup on January 10, 2025, 08:26:49 PMIf hear that he was cleared of any wrongdoing in court, so move on, I'll go mad. What happens in court is not reality. There are people in the North who have been involved in planning and executing hundreds of murders in my area who have been 'proven' innocent in court. It's a serious issue and needs to be addressed. Same with Kyle Hayes and I'm sure others. They should not be in the position of role models.  Young people need to uderstand that there is a consequence to their actions even if the get off with the charge. GAA have an opportunity to be clear on what they expect from their role models. They are the face of the GAA. Don't talk to me about courts.

Why is being good at football or hurling make you a role model? If we got rid of every player who wasn't fit to be a role model we'd have plenty of clubs failing to field. It's really getting silly now.

Agreed. Players train hard to become the best they can be, not to be role models.

The GAA has signed up to a commitment to address domestic violence, specifically violence against women and girls. The victim in the RG case has made statements that have been supported by at least one independent witness...although many others on this forum have said they know the victim's statements are true. Some on this forum have suggested there are more than one victim.
Meanwhile there are children here who have to be the priority. So Jarlath is 100% right to draw the Naas club's attention to the GAA commitment. And he wasn't the only one reminding them.
So...Phoenix law can bluster all they want...as they do..Jarlath should tell them; see you in court.

What's old Dermo doing these days saying he got a conviction for GBH and avoided another by paying g compensation. He got any club involvement  these days.? Burns has overstepped his remit and some people just can't see it due to their dislike of Gallagher. It the start of opening up way too many cases down the line. If he been convicted, we all be saying yes bar him. In relation to the witness, was that incident not near 22/23rs ago. I don't understand  why the family didn't take that further at the time.

Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 10, 2025, 11:48:32 PMThe GAA has signed up to a commitment to address domestic violence, specifically violence against women and girls. The victim in the RG case has made statements that have been supported by at least one independent witness...although many others on this forum have said they know the victim's statements are true. Some on this forum have suggested there are more than one victim.
Meanwhile there are children here who have to be the priority. So Jarlath is 100% right to draw the Naas club's attention to the GAA commitment. And he wasn't the only one reminding them.
So...Phoenix law can bluster all they want...as they do..Jarlath should tell them; see you in court.

Jarlath is using a Novemeber 2024 commitment as cover for a legacy case that has been dealt with, what new information or allegations have come to light since November

By interfering he has confirmed his personal bias against Gallagher, Jarlath has abused his position, a position he long coveted and has on a pedestil, but that he thinks he can use to target individuals within the organisation

If Jarlath or anyone has concerns over a risk to children (or women or men) they should contact the relevant authorities, I don't think the 2024 DV initiative references children, instructs people to take matters into their own hands or to pursue personal vendettas

The tragic case in Tyrone is only relevant because it highlights how unmanageable cancelling people is outside due process, we can only presume the fella was back involved and playing because he was entitled to and it should be of no concern to anyone thereafter unless you have concerns to escalate to relevant authorities

If Jarlath is going to reduce safeguarding processes to whack a mole then everyone is fair game regardless of the rules regs and processes

If Jarlath wanted to bring Domestic Violence issues to the fore within the GAA he has succeeded.

I would say he now knows he has a bigger job on his hands to educate  members and tackle the issue than he first thought.

Quote from: Spike on January 11, 2025, 09:46:54 AMIf Jarlath wanted to bring Domestic Violence issues to the fore within the GAA he has succeeded.

I would say he now knows he has a bigger job on his hands to educate  members and tackle the issue than he first thought.

But there is no domestic issue case ? It's the same as me accusing you of a crime .. the police investigate and no case to answer...

The police were obligated to investigate .. they sent the file .. no case to answer.

Simple.

He has the right to manage or coach ...

Quote from: ElJeffe on January 11, 2025, 11:54:04 AM

Quote from: Spike on January 11, 2025, 09:46:54 AMIf Jarlath wanted to bring Domestic Violence issues to the fore within the GAA he has succeeded.

I would say he now knows he has a bigger job on his hands to educate  members and tackle the issue than he first thought.

But there is no domestic issue case ? It's the same as me accusing you of a crime .. the police investigate and no case to answer...

The police were obligated to investigate .. they sent the file .. no case to answer.

Simple.

He has the right to manage or coach ...

Investigated by the same PSNI division who decided Katie Simpson had committed suicide. Their record on domestic violence is questionable

Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 11, 2025, 01:16:13 PM

Quote from: ElJeffe on January 11, 2025, 11:54:04 AM

Quote from: Spike on January 11, 2025, 09:46:54 AMIf Jarlath wanted to bring Domestic Violence issues to the fore within the GAA he has succeeded.

I would say he now knows he has a bigger job on his hands to educate  members and tackle the issue than he first thought.

But there is no domestic issue case ? It's the same as me accusing you of a crime .. the police investigate and no case to answer...

The police were obligated to investigate .. they sent the file .. no case to answer.

Simple.

He has the right to manage or coach ...

Investigated by the same PSNI division who decided Katie Simpson had committed suicide. Their record on domestic violence is questionable

Was it not determined that the CPS did not have enough evidence to prosecute???

Quote from: Delgany 2nds on January 11, 2025, 01:20:15 PM

Quote from: Dubh driocht on January 11, 2025, 01:16:13 PM

Quote from: ElJeffe on January 11, 2025, 11:54:04 AM

Quote from: Spike on January 11, 2025, 09:46:54 AMIf Jarlath wanted to bring Domestic Violence issues to the fore within the GAA he has succeeded.

I would say he now knows he has a bigger job on his hands to educate  members and tackle the issue than he first thought.

But there is no domestic issue case ? It's the same as me accusing you of a crime .. the police investigate and no case to answer...

The police were obligated to investigate .. they sent the file .. no case to answer.

Simple.

He has the right to manage or coach ...

Investigated by the same PSNI division who decided Katie Simpson had committed suicide. Their record on domestic violence is questionable

Was it not determined that the CPS did not have enough evidence to prosecute???

With any file received the PPS are obliged to apply a two stage test. Firstly is there enough evidence for a reasonable prospect of securing a conviction. This stage will take into account a large number of factors including the credibility of complainants witnesses etc their conduct in other courts if applicable, their willingness to engage in the trial process and a raft of other factors.

If the PPS concludes the evidential test is met then they apply a public interest test. Is it in the public interest to prosecute.

This test is subject to continual review.

My understanding is the PPS have twice decided that the test is not met. We don't know which element of the test or the reasons for that.

Quote from: PAULD123 on January 09, 2025, 05:07:32 PMMy View:

Firstly it's complex, I don't think there is an simple way through it. But:

His Character -

• There are lots of people ready to comment that RG is unlikable
• Although you have to be cautious about bandwagon jumpers
• I have not heard a lot of people saying he's a lovey sweet guy
• So, I would conclude he may well not the nicest guy around
• But... is that critical?

The accusations -

• The accusations are horrible. If they could be proven, or even shown to be reasonably certain, I would hope all clubs would choose not to work with RG
• Though just because they are made doesn't mean they are true
• These have been investigated by the Gardai, the PSNI, the courts (family), and the DRA
• No conviction or sanction was imposed by any of these bodies
• In fact no charge or even arrest was ever made
• The DRA said there was no case to answer
• The PPS said that there were no grounds for a prosecution
• However, on the other hand, RG has never denied the accusations publicly

The accuser -

• Nicola clearly has personal issues apart from this direct accusation.
• The marriage ended toxically.
• With reference to the family court above. These accusations were considered as part of the custody hearings and yet the court granted RG full custody of the children.
• I hardly need to point out that full custody to a father is relatively rare.
• But that would not give him an excuse, even given a toxic environment, for physically assaulting a woman
• It is wrong to victim blame and women speaking up should be given the benefit of the doubt.
• But with all the investigations reaching conclusions in RG's favour it can't be denied that some doubt has been created.
• The lack of action would make me wonder what corroboration there was, Nicola claimed people were present, surely if they could back up the accusation there would at least have been some action?
• Equally, in no way unless it is proven otherwise, should Nicola's claims be dismissed. Such claims should be taken seriously.
• None of us can know for sure if the accusations are fact, but we can be sure that a young lady is deeply unhappy in life and that she is suffering. We should all wish her the best.
• The single most important thing is that we don't know. We don't know if he subjected her to violence, and we don't know if he didn't.

Jarlath Burns -

• Jarlath Burns has ignored the findings of the DRA
• He has used his position to put pressure on Naas
• Given all the doubt above, how much is not fully known, that would appear an overreach to me
• Is it not hypocritical? he has not intervened against any other individual despite plenty of GAA managers and players actually being convicted of offences in court
• It is hard to see that Burns has made this decision on anything other than social media.
• If his argument is that he doesn't want specifically abusers of women to be in the GAA then I ask if he has written to the club of the Armagh player, that was arrested for indecent assault recently, to be dropped by his club and county?

Work as a manger? -
Minor side comment here. In his statement Gallagher mentioned working as a manger. What is his tax return record on being employed as a manger? Isn't the GAA supposed to be volunteers? His admission of working should really be of interest to the Revenue Commissioners. (as i said complete side point)

Conclusions -

• We do not know if the accusations are fact
• We do know that Nicola is not in a good place and we should all be sympathetic to her
• We simply cannot state with certainty that RG has done anything to mean he does not deserve a coaching role in the GAA.
• But all investigations, including GAA, have cleared him and I don't think we have anything more to go on than to accept the findings of those with the detailed information.
• In my opinion he should not therefore be denied the opportunity to work unless other information can be proven
• This is the simplest one - In my opinion Jarlath Burns was out of order, going against his own DRA findings and singling out an individual. It was an abuse of his position and laced with hypocrisy

Finally, I do not think highly of him. I would tend to believe that there is at least some partial value in the accusations. I am drawn towards thinking that whatever happened, he was unlikely to have treated he kindly in their relationship. I don't think I would want to be associated with him. But I can't say there is any solid reason for preventing hm for taking a role he is offered.

Independent of all of that, with RG being cleared by the DRA, I think Jarlath Burns was very wrong.

Always good to get the ChatGPT perspective

You miss a few points.

The court case collapsed as Mrs Gallagher was in no fit state to give evidence. As a result, the court gave custody to RG.
The question I have is why the poor woman developed an alcohol problem in the first place and why she couldnt even stay sober for her kids custody hearing. Had she, she'd have been awarded custody I'm told.

A lot of people stating that RG has denied all allegations. Fact is, he never has denied them, he simply pointed to the fact that he hasnt been charged. Remember, all charges were dropped as his wife couldn't give evidence.

A very sad case and my sympathy goes out to Mrs. Gallagher. I hope she recovers.

Quote from: ck on January 14, 2025, 09:03:44 PMYou miss a few points.

The court case collapsed as Mrs Gallagher was in no fit state to give evidence. As a result, the court gave custody to RG.
The question I have is why the poor woman developed an alcohol problem in the first place and why she couldnt even stay sober for her kids custody hearing. Had she, she'd have been awarded custody I'm told.

A lot of people stating that RG has denied all allegations. Fact is, he never has denied them, he simply pointed to the fact that he hasnt been charged. Remember, all charges were dropped as his wife couldn't give evidence.

A very sad case and my sympathy goes out to Mrs. Gallagher. I hope she recovers.

So there was a court case, and then it collapsed. Never knew that. You should have popped along months ago with all the facts, would have saved page upon page of speculation.

Why does anybody develope a alcohol problem, I could say the same about a few members of my family, hence why I drink very seldom.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2025, 09:25:59 PMWhy does anybody develope a alcohol problem, I could say the same about a few members of my family, hence why I drink very seldom.

Strange post.
Not sure an a problem with alcohol is something that one would intentionally nurture?

I should probably steer back to the alcohol thread, but anyway.  I think there is a generational change in alcohol patterns- it doesn't have the same fascination for teens now as in my time in school.  Back then, there was borderline full families of alcoholics, and I'd have known a fair few married couples who fitted the bill.
It's certainly much rarer now.  I wouldn't know much of the back-story to the Gallagher marriage,  but a lot of what I've read would suggest that Gallagher was/is some sort of control freak, and that very probably drove her, or at least exacerbated the situation.
What Jarlath Burns did is an interesting debate.  A lot of similarities with Michael D- procedure and using status/ position to exert influence,  and doing what you think is right.  There are many ways of looking at things, whether they are right or wrong, and whether they should or shouldn't.  One of the things I disliked about Twitter/ X was, to my mind, it created a situation where people had to reduce their arguments to 140 characters.  Maybe I'm arseways wrong, but I think over time it had created an environment where a lot of people seem to have lost the ability to process contrasting points of view, and instead gravitate to more extreme views too easily.  Hence the Trumps, Andrew Tates, McGregors and so on of this world seem to attract such a following, no matter how outrageous their statements or actions.  Indeed, that has become a marketing tool for them.
I went off on a tangent, and then took a few turns.  I'm very lost now!!

Me too

Quote from: ck on January 14, 2025, 09:03:44 PMYou miss a few points.

The court case collapsed as Mrs Gallagher was in no fit state to give evidence. As a result, the court gave custody to RG.

Do you mean a court case on child custody? If so, I haven't seen that in the public domain anywhere - but could be true. And to be fair, if she was in no state to attend court or give evidence, she'd be in no state to look after kids. As far as I'm aware there has been no court case on the abuse allegations.

Quote from: ck on January 14, 2025, 09:03:44 PMThe question I have is why the poor woman developed an alcohol problem in the first place and why she couldnt even stay sober for her kids custody hearing. Had she, she'd have been awarded custody I'm told.

I've seen this type of comment a few times now, suggesting Nicola Gallagher became an alcoholic because of RG - I know you didn't say this explicitly but its the inference I take from your comment. With some knowledge of recovering alcoholics, they will say they were not made an alcoholic, they were born one. Its a personality disorder that leaves them predisposed to that addictive behaviour and then they look for excuses for the why. When drinking, they will rarely say they are drinking because they want to - there's is usually a reason like a bad day, or depressed, or thought it would them feel more confident. That's not my insight, I'm just repeating what I've been told by recovering alcoholics. I don't know if it's the same for everyone and not suggesting this is the case for Nicola Gallagher - just stating what I've been told in the past.
I do think no-one can say with any certainty what "caused" Nicola Gallagher to become an alcoholic. She may not even know herself, and she may genuinely believe it was because of RG. But....she has to take some responsibility for that herself too. Plenty of people have been in abusive relationships without resorting to drink or drugs - that is still a personal choice to turn to drink/drugs. While she will not want to be an alcoholic, it doesn't sound like she has made that step to sobriety (yet?), and if that's the only thing stopping her having her kids it doesn't paint her in a great light in terms of a social services view.

Quote from: ck on January 14, 2025, 09:03:44 PMA lot of people stating that RG has denied all allegations. Fact is, he never has denied them, he simply pointed to the fact that he hasnt been charged. Remember, all charges were dropped as his wife couldn't give evidence.

Did he not deny them in that recent letter in response to JB getting involved?
And the fact is, our legal system has the presumption of innocence unless proven guilty in court. It's not perfect, but it's what we have and we have to live by that even if we don't like the outcome sometimes.

Quote from: ck on January 14, 2025, 09:03:44 PMA very sad case and my sympathy goes out to Mrs. Gallagher. I hope she recovers.

100% agree.
The woman is obviously in a very bad place. The children are growing up in the middle of this entire mess and will have a ringside seat to the online vitriol against their father, and in some cases their mother. You wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy.

Were most people not aware of the stories prior to her post on social media?

Quote from: NotedObserver on January 15, 2025, 10:56:49 AMWere most people not aware of the stories prior to her post on social media?

Stories are stories ... unfortunately social media posts and high stool chat don't carry any burden in a legal case. Regardless of what people heard, thought , read etc RG is entitled to his presumption of innocence. It is what our entire legal system is built on.

Im sorry I feel a bit uninformed on this one. What is the evidence thats causing people to presume guilt in Rory? Is it just anecdotes from others that say hes a bit of c*nt?

(Not saying I believe hes innocent. Just want to understand why theres so much hatred towards him)

Quote from: jmcgdoire on January 16, 2025, 08:51:44 AMIm sorry I feel a bit uninformed on this one. What is the evidence thats causing people to presume guilt in Rory? Is it just anecdotes from others that say hes a bit of c*nt?

(Not saying I believe hes innocent. Just want to understand why theres so much hatred towards him)

What his wife posted on Facebook at the time was specific to a couple of events and pretty graphic. What she said was supported by a comment under her post from another woman saying that she took her to the hospital one of those nights. Obviously wasn't enough to convict him in court but plenty of people choose to believe it.

Usually when innocent people are accused of serious offences such a woman-beating they come out strongly defending their reputation. His ex wife and friend may just be very convincing liars and RG totally innocent, but from the outset he hasn't given me the impression that the allegations are totally false.

Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 16, 2025, 10:49:42 AM

Quote from: jmcgdoire on January 16, 2025, 08:51:44 AMIm sorry I feel a bit uninformed on this one. What is the evidence thats causing people to presume guilt in Rory? Is it just anecdotes from others that say hes a bit of c*nt?

(Not saying I believe hes innocent. Just want to understand why theres so much hatred towards him)

What his wife posted on Facebook at the time was specific to a couple of events and pretty graphic. What she said was supported by a comment under her post from another woman saying that she took her to the hospital one of those nights. Obviously wasn't enough to convict him in court but plenty of people choose to believe it.

Indeed but people also ignore relevant factors such as three decisions not to prosecute. Two in the north and one in the south, as well as a court fact finding on a balance of probability basis.

I've no idea what happened and can't make any judgement one way or the other but I remain concerned that some on both sides seem willing to ignore very relevant information.

Time to lock up this thread or take it out of the Derry section of the forum. This has nothing to do with Derry. Still way too much speculation about the ins and outs of all this. The thread on the Armagh situation was locked up pretty sharp so why isn't this one?

Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 16, 2025, 10:49:42 AM

Quote from: jmcgdoire on January 16, 2025, 08:51:44 AMIm sorry I feel a bit uninformed on this one. What is the evidence thats causing people to presume guilt in Rory? Is it just anecdotes from others that say hes a bit of c*nt?

(Not saying I believe hes innocent. Just want to understand why theres so much hatred towards him)

What his wife posted on Facebook at the time was specific to a couple of events and pretty graphic. What she said was supported by a comment under her post from another woman saying that she took her to the hospital one of those nights. Obviously wasn't enough to convict him in court but plenty of people choose to believe it.

Are you actually serious? I can't believe my eyes ... who cares what a comment under a Facebook post said... it's all hearsay. No arrest ... no conviction. Move on.

Think it came from a pretty reputable source El jeffe ie ex county player wife who was there that night, not Big Lilly from east bilfast

What's mad is that someone can say something on social media and it becomes a a talking point, some believe others don't, all depending on their view on life.

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on January 16, 2025, 05:42:11 PMThink it came from a pretty reputable source El jeffe ie ex county player wife who was there that night, not Big Lilly from east bilfast

Oh so then it's true then???lol
Why did they not give a statement to the police?

Catch yourself on

Late Late (https://x.com/RTEgaa/status/1880364560055693366?t=l6HA7ZDyoHRnuTp0ZqtNDw&s=19)

Comply or die Rory
ps not cancelled, honest

Quote from: ElJeffe on January 17, 2025, 08:58:04 PM

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on January 16, 2025, 05:42:11 PMThink it came from a pretty reputable source El jeffe ie ex county player wife who was there that night, not Big Lilly from east bilfast

Oh so then it's true then???lol
Why did they not give a statement to the police?

Catch yourself on

Will do 🤝

Doubt Kyle Hayes may retire for the forthcoming year,

What is this road back for RG Jarlath talks about?

Ever see game of thrones?

Shame shame shame up Jones road on AI Final day.

Rory Gallagher a Derry bastid.... everyone knows he done it.

From Fermanagh like but you got dis

Quote from: tiempo on January 18, 2025, 12:02:53 AMFrom Fermanagh like but you got dis

When you switch from Rockshore to Stella of an evening

Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2025, 08:34:28 AM

Quote from: tiempo on January 18, 2025, 12:02:53 AMFrom Fermanagh like but you got dis

When you switch from Rockshore to Stella of an evening

A beautiful name but she had a mouth on her like a Glaswegian shipbuilder

Quote from: giveherlong on January 17, 2025, 11:17:39 PMWhat is this road back for RG Jarlath talks about?

Yeah, was thinking that myself.

What is Burns talking about when he says this?

What does Gallagher have to do.

Personally from a footballing point of view, I never really warmed to Gallagher. Comes across as very arrogant. It's a trait I detest.  Small things - always seemed to be narky along the line, barking instructions to players etc. every 5 secs to he's hoarse and spitting on hands.

Seemed to take glee even from winding Fermangh ones up when playing against them. Why was there a need really?

This looks as if it's going to run and run and the key question is will anyone get clozure? 

this needs to come to a stop, should Rory Gallagher be allowed to coach in GAa? Yes.

Would I be happy him to be involved with my club or county. No. Let other people decide if they do.

Gallagher is Kilcoo bound

Quote from: Goals_Will_Come on January 23, 2025, 11:24:12 AMGallagher is Kilcoo bound

Not much chance of the Kilcoo fanbase growing if true. 

Was v reliably told few months ago that RG will not be coaching in 'six counties' with directive coming from on high. I do realise Ulster is nine counties in GAA terms and otherwise! but mad as it seems that was the directive.
Maybe Burns intervention, with the subsequent furore, in a strange way has changed everything and there won't be similar interference anymore..

Could the mod(s) maybe take this thread to the Down section for the time being?

I see Gallagher has lodged legal proceedings against the GAA and Jarlath Burns

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/rory-gallagher-initiates-legal-proceedings-against-gaa-and-jarlath-burns/a84514095.html
...
Interesting: suing the Association for malicious falsehood and breach of contract.

Uh oh...

What is breach of contract?

I thought 'GAA' managers don't sign contracts?

Quote from: marty34 on April 04, 2025, 08:23:41 PMWhat is breach of contract?

I thought 'GAA' managers don't sign contracts?

I dont think its that type of contract, the parties aren't correct so I would imagine its the (technical) contract that's created when you become a member of the association.

Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2025, 09:07:55 PM

Quote from: marty34 on April 04, 2025, 08:23:41 PMWhat is breach of contract?

I thought 'GAA' managers don't sign contracts?

I dont think its that type of contract, the parties aren't correct so I would imagine its the (technical) contract that's created when you become a member of the association.

Ok David. Thanks.

What's the basis of that do you reckon?

Quote from: marty34 on April 04, 2025, 09:10:09 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2025, 09:07:55 PM

Quote from: marty34 on April 04, 2025, 08:23:41 PMWhat is breach of contract?

I thought 'GAA' managers don't sign contracts?

I dont think its that type of contract, the parties aren't correct so I would imagine its the (technical) contract that's created when you become a member of the association.

Ok David. Thanks.

What's the basis of that do you reckon?

I'd be speculating but possibly the claim would be that he wasn't subjected to the procedures in the official guide and suffered a detriment as a result. The claim being that effectively the Official Guide defines the scope of the contractual relationship.  Again though I am guessing a bit.

Burns way overstepped his authority on this and I for one hope he gets taken to the cleaners. Whatever about respect for Gallagher, Burns has lost his over his intervention. BTW he never explained his 'road back for Gallagher'.

Quote from: Interstellar on April 04, 2025, 10:02:59 PMBurns way overstepped his authority on this and I for one hope he gets taken to the cleaners. Whatever about respect for Gallagher, Burns has lost his over his intervention. BTW he never explained his 'road back for Gallagher'.

I always liked Burns as he was an interesting and enaging speaker but since he's took office, he's full of soundbites and everything, his speeches especially seems to be full of too much effort.

 

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2025, 07:16:26 PMUh oh...

Why so? It's one thing suing someone -  winning is another thing entirely.

Would those in HQ really loose much sleep over it? Would the GAA not just hand this to their insurers?

Are the different sides in the court of public opinion likely to change? Are reputations really going to be restored or damaged by the outcome? 

Quote from: APM on April 04, 2025, 11:16:35 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2025, 07:16:26 PMUh oh...

Why so? It's one thing suing someone -  winning is another thing entirely.

Would those in HQ really loose much sleep over it? Would the GAA not just hand this to their insurers?

Are the different sides in the court of public opinion likely to change? Are reputations really going to be restored or damaged by the outcome? 

At this stage Gallagher has nothing to lose but Burns does. Maybe if Gallagher came out in front of the cameras and made a tearful apology celeb like he might be forgiven. Is that what Burns wants? Doubt that is ever going to happen.

Is this not a bit of a gamble on RG's part?

Surely he would not be entitled to legal aid therefore if this goes the whole way and he loses he could be out a few £.

Quote from: Interstellar on April 04, 2025, 11:53:02 PM

Quote from: APM on April 04, 2025, 11:16:35 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 04, 2025, 07:16:26 PMUh oh...

Why so? It's one thing suing someone -  winning is another thing entirely.

Would those in HQ really loose much sleep over it? Would the GAA not just hand this to their insurers?

Are the different sides in the court of public opinion likely to change? Are reputations really going to be restored or damaged by the outcome? 

At this stage Gallagher has nothing to lose but Burns does. Maybe if Gallagher came out in front of the cameras and made a tearful apology celeb like he might be forgiven. Is that what Burns wants? Doubt that is ever going to happen.

I think this is the type of thing burns was alluding to but Gallagher maintains his innocence so why would he? That's the bit that I've always had issue with, people saying he needs to apologise but if he's denying it then he's not going to.

Fair play to RG here, everyone knows burns overstepped and regardless of what happens maybe it'll make him think twice before going on a wim on serious matters

Interesting approach by RG. Why isn't he suing his ex wife?

Quote from: marty34 on April 04, 2025, 10:25:14 PM

Quote from: Interstellar on April 04, 2025, 10:02:59 PMBurns way overstepped his authority on this and I for one hope he gets taken to the cleaners. Whatever about respect for Gallagher, Burns has lost his over his intervention. BTW he never explained his 'road back for Gallagher'.

I always liked Burns as he was an interesting and enaging speaker but since he's took office, he's full of soundbites and everything, his speeches especially seems to be full of too much effort.

 
Interesting take on this....would you rather his speeches were full of too little effort??

Happy medium, it's not the Jarlath show

Quote from: general_lee on April 05, 2025, 08:01:27 AMInteresting approach by RG. Why isn't he suing his ex wife?

Speculating, but perhaps it could be because she is the mother of their children?
I can't imagine a potentially expensive and public civil case would do anyone benefit either financially or emotionally.

Quote from: general_lee on April 05, 2025, 08:01:27 AMInteresting approach by RG. Why isn't he suing his ex wife?

Precisely!

Quote from: general_lee on April 05, 2025, 08:01:27 AMInteresting approach by RG. Why isn't he suing his ex wife?

I would imagine that he has probably received legal advice about at the minimum the technical defences available and that's not making any comment either way in respect of whether the defence of truth would apply.

Range of other factors likely at play as well. Very very rare and difficult for someone to sue their accuser when criminal reports have been made. Difficult to see what it would achieve etc

Quote from: Silver hill on April 05, 2025, 09:41:13 AM

Quote from: marty34 on April 04, 2025, 10:25:14 PM

Quote from: Interstellar on April 04, 2025, 10:02:59 PMBurns way overstepped his authority on this and I for one hope he gets taken to the cleaners. Whatever about respect for Gallagher, Burns has lost his over his intervention. BTW he never explained his 'road back for Gallagher'.

I always liked Burns as he was an interesting and enaging speaker but since he's took office, he's full of soundbites and everything, his speeches especially seems to be full of too much effort.

 
Interesting take on this....would you rather his speeches were full of too little effort??

Maybe just in the middle - I'd be happy with that.  ;D

Can we move this to the Fermanagh thread please?

Can we move this to the Jarlath Burns thread please

Can we move it to the Derry thread please?

Saw this on Hogan Stand.



Philly McMahon has confirmed that he was offered the Derry senior football manager's post last autumn.

Speaking on The GAA Social podcast, the Dublin All-Ireland SFC winning defender and BBC NI pundit explained how he was close to taking the job before it was eventually filled by Paddy Tally after a four-month search for Mickey Harte's successor.

"I met the guys behind-the-scenes from Derry, they came down to me and offered me the job, and I had to go through a couple of things. I had to get the right people with me, I had to speak to my wife, I have a three-year-old, so they were a priority first of all," he said.

"I spoke to a couple of bodies that I had interest in coming in, and I was basically a couple of days from giving the last decision, and the guys I was talking to said 'Paddy's interested in taking the job'. I just said to the guys, 'if there is someone who is 100% in, you are better off giving it to them'."

McMahon didn't rule out taking another inter-county job in the future, adding: "It was a very interesting opportunity, the support behind-the-scenes seemed really good and that's what enticed me. Maybe it's set me up for the next opportunity.

"I'd like to try [county management]. I'm really passionate about performance coaching and that's kind of management in itself. My career is in the fitness industry, managing people, trying to get the best out of people, and that's what I think as a coach and a manager you have to do."

Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2025, 07:37:09 AMSaw this on Hogan Stand.



Philly McMahon has confirmed that he was offered the Derry senior football manager's post last autumn.

Speaking on The GAA Social podcast, the Dublin All-Ireland SFC winning defender and BBC NI pundit explained how he was close to taking the job before it was eventually filled by Paddy Tally after a four-month search for Mickey Harte's successor.

"I met the guys behind-the-scenes from Derry, they came down to me and offered me the job, and I had to go through a couple of things. I had to get the right people with me, I had to speak to my wife, I have a three-year-old, so they were a priority first of all," he said.

"I spoke to a couple of bodies that I had interest in coming in, and I was basically a couple of days from giving the last decision, and the guys I was talking to said 'Paddy's interested in taking the job'. I just said to the guys, 'if there is someone who is 100% in, you are better off giving it to them'."

McMahon didn't rule out taking another inter-county job in the future, adding: "It was a very interesting opportunity, the support behind-the-scenes seemed really good and that's what enticed me. Maybe it's set me up for the next opportunity.

"I'd like to try [county management]. I'm really passionate about performance coaching and that's kind of management in itself. My career is in the fitness industry, managing people, trying to get the best out of people, and that's what I think as a coach and a manager you have to do."

Just shows how desperate Derry were when they approached a man who has never coached at county level before and ran after a big name instead of big credentials.

Quote from: ck on April 11, 2025, 09:07:07 AM

Quote from: marty34 on April 11, 2025, 07:37:09 AMSaw this on Hogan Stand.



Philly McMahon has confirmed that he was offered the Derry senior football manager's post last autumn.

Speaking on The GAA Social podcast, the Dublin All-Ireland SFC winning defender and BBC NI pundit explained how he was close to taking the job before it was eventually filled by Paddy Tally after a four-month search for Mickey Harte's successor.

"I met the guys behind-the-scenes from Derry, they came down to me and offered me the job, and I had to go through a couple of things. I had to get the right people with me, I had to speak to my wife, I have a three-year-old, so they were a priority first of all," he said.

"I spoke to a couple of bodies that I had interest in coming in, and I was basically a couple of days from giving the last decision, and the guys I was talking to said 'Paddy's interested in taking the job'. I just said to the guys, 'if there is someone who is 100% in, you are better off giving it to them'."

McMahon didn't rule out taking another inter-county job in the future, adding: "It was a very interesting opportunity, the support behind-the-scenes seemed really good and that's what enticed me. Maybe it's set me up for the next opportunity.

"I'd like to try [county management]. I'm really passionate about performance coaching and that's kind of management in itself. My career is in the fitness industry, managing people, trying to get the best out of people, and that's what I think as a coach and a manager you have to do."

Just shows how desperate Derry were when they approached a man who has never coached at county level before and ran after a big name instead of big credentials.

They had already approached about 10 people at that stage, most of whom had coached at county level.

Any word on how our Rory getting on with his case against Burns. Hope he takes him to the cleaners.

Quote from: Grace Murphy on May 26, 2025, 03:06:16 PMAny word on how our Rory getting on with his case against Burns. Hope he takes him to the cleaners.

As any compensation surely can't be for current or future loss of earnings, then I doubt he stands to win much apart from an apology and a few quid for expenses.

Burns will be on the right side of this.  Good on him cleaning these stains from our association.

He'll be kept busy

Quote from: thewobbler on May 26, 2025, 03:18:46 PM

Quote from: Grace Murphy on May 26, 2025, 03:06:16 PMAny word on how our Rory getting on with his case against Burns. Hope he takes him to the cleaners.

As any compensation surely can't be for current or future loss of earnings, then I doubt he stands to win much apart from an apology and a few quid for expenses.

No it would be for damage to reputation I would have thought.

Quote from: David McKeown on June 05, 2025, 02:26:46 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on May 26, 2025, 03:18:46 PM

Quote from: Grace Murphy on May 26, 2025, 03:06:16 PMAny word on how our Rory getting on with his case against Burns. Hope he takes him to the cleaners.

As any compensation surely can't be for current or future loss of earnings, then I doubt he stands to win much apart from an apology and a few quid for expenses.

No it would be for damage to reputation I would have thought.

Burns should at bare minimum had a meeting with Gallagher - anyone know if this happened?