Looks like Rishi is announcing a summer election.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69042935 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69042935)
Maybe hoping for a bit of Euros feel good from the electorate but surely they are on the road out.
Jeffrey about to lose his income and expenses too.
Bad timing for the DUP. "Safeguarding the Union" dead in the water, the ruling that the Rwanda act doesn't apply in NI. Big Gavin Robinson under pressure in East Belfast, South Antrim maybe in the mix. While I think he'll be re-elected, Eastwood's majority of 17,000 should be well reduced. For SF, there's Fermanagh & Sth Tyrone. Michelle Gildernew is standing in the Euro elections in the South. If she wins a seat she can't run for Westminster and even if she doesn't win, surely SF have to declare their candidate in FST before 7 June?
Half the country will be away on holiday here. I'll have to get the postal vote sorted.
Jamie worried about marching season
that was funny. Man was soaked to the soundtrack of things can only get better. West wing this was not
Sad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
Hopefully ye'll lose a DUPUDA MP or 2 in the 6!
Quote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He's a politician but has less malign intent than the Tories.
A bit like Biden and Trump, you can have an unimpressive candidate or an outright dangerous one.
Loved the soundtrack in the background of Rishis announcement. Someone blaring out 'Things can only get better'
He kept that quiet! Or just said f**k it
The more you see of Sunak the more you realise he's just a rich kid cosplaying. Labour aren't perfect but I sure as shite know who I would be voting for if i were voting in GB, ABC!
https://members.parliament.uk/constituencies
Seems a lot of Tory MPs aren't happy with his decision.
Great stuff. Let the slaying begin.
Quote from: Nanderson on May 22, 2024, 06:06:38 PMLoved the soundtrack in the background of Rishis announcement. Someone blaring out 'Things can only get better'
I'd say Peter Cunnah will be getting a few quid in royalties over the coming weeks
Quote from: bennydorano on May 22, 2024, 06:24:44 PMHe kept that quiet! Or just said f**k it
The more you see of Sunak the more you realise he's just a rich kid cosplaying. Labour aren't perfect but I sure as shite know who I would be voting for if i were voting in GB, ABC!
https://members.parliament.uk/constituencies
Rumours of more letters of no confidence recently and further possible defections across the floor may have forced his hand.
I would say his hand was forced. Those ***** were hanging on robbing the place blind as much as they could and would do it for as long as they could. Something must have turned him.
Yeah he's an out of his depth rich kid.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2024, 05:50:38 PMQuote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He's a politician but has less malign intent than the Tories.
A bit like Biden and Trump, you can have an unimpressive candidate or an outright dangerous one.
I'd say theres plenty in Gaza who'd say Bidens fair dangerous as well!
The British public will get bored of Starmer and Reeves very quickly, because they are very boring.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 22, 2024, 10:36:29 PMThe British public will get bored of Starmer and Reeves very quickly, because they are very boring.
They don't need to be interesting, just competent - and I think they are
Hopefully my local MP Fleggory Campbell won't be making a bid for reelection, surely served his time by now and has gotten alot quieter over the last few years
Quote from: Brendan on May 23, 2024, 07:42:05 AMHopefully my local MP Fleggory Campbell won't be making a bid for reelection, surely served his time by now and has gotten alot quieter over the last few years
Handy money is hard to turn down.
Never understood why folk look for some sort of celebrity type figure to run a country. As far as i'm concerned you want someone that is competent and just gets on with the job. The less controversial the better. In short do the job you were elected to do. Hated Major at the time but when i look back he was in different league to what came after him in his own party.
I'd say he'll still stand. Another few years on the gravy train.
The timing is interesting for the DUP.
There'll be some protests with Jamie and Jim at the band parades up until the election. It'll be all against the DUP sell-out and sea border.
Is Campell's seat a safe one for him? It could be an interesting election. A good few postal votes with people on holidays also.
Can see a few more independents getting in in Ingerland as both Labour and Tory are solidly pro zionist parties now. Hopefully that's a red line for many.
Sad reality is there are no major parties that I can see that are in good faith really operating in the prime interests of the electorate.
I'd take a benevolent dictator at this stage ahead of the sham democracies being served up in the west now.
Quote from: maddog on May 23, 2024, 07:50:23 AMNever understood why folk look for some sort of celebrity type figure to run a country. As far as i'm concerned you want someone that is competent and just gets on with the job. The less controversial the better. In short do the job you were elected to do. Hated Major at the time but when i look back he was in different league to what came after him in his own party.
He's not coming out of those blood scandal enquiries too well either.
England a complete basket case but then are we any different here.
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2024, 07:52:00 AMI'd say he'll still stand. Another few years on the gravy train.
The timing is interesting for the DUP.
There'll be some protests with Jamie and Jim at the band parades up until the election. It'll be all against the DUP sell-out and sea border.
Is Campell's seat a safe one for him? It could be an interesting election. A good few postal votes with people on holidays also.
Going by Stormont elections the Shinners are getting closer but the last Westminster was a disaster for them even the stoops overtook their candidate, a bit like Upper Bann, a perfect storm could see them cause an upset
Well whatever happens, we know that the next British PM will be a Tory.
Quote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
Agree with the sentiment.
My fervent hope is that Starmer has been coy in terms of his true intentions with issues such as Brexit, and that once in government, he will look to effectively ditch Brexit, address the desperate situation that the NHS (along with a range of social care services) finds itself in and renationalise things like water and transport.
My fear though is that he will simply be a Tory of a different colour, which will leave a very bleak outlook for us all, that only some sort of longer term seismic shift in politics will address.
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 23, 2024, 08:16:54 AMQuote from: maddog on May 23, 2024, 07:50:23 AMNever understood why folk look for some sort of celebrity type figure to run a country. As far as i'm concerned you want someone that is competent and just gets on with the job. The less controversial the better. In short do the job you were elected to do. Hated Major at the time but when i look back he was in different league to what came after him in his own party.
He's not coming out of those blood scandal enquiries too well either.
England a complete basket case but then are we any different here.
You'll be hearing a lot about Education from the Tories during the campaign, there's been recognised improvements in educational standards in England & Wales in recent years, Scotland has regressed, NI stalled or regressed.
My understanding is that Swann, Long and any other minister running will have to step down once Westminster is dissolved (next Friday). Not doing much for stability in NI. SF had already announced that no Stormont Minister will run for Westminster, so that's Archibald and O'Dowd (and prob Gildernew) not running in constituencies where they have a high profile.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 23, 2024, 09:40:30 AMQuote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
Agree with the sentiment.
My fervent hope is that Starmer has been coy in terms of his true intentions with issues such as Brexit, and that once in government, he will look to effectively ditch Brexit, address the desperate situation that the NHS (along with a range of social care services) finds itself in and renationalise things like water and transport.
My fear though is that he will simply be a Tory of a different colour, which will leave a very bleak outlook for us all, that only some sort of longer term seismic shift in politics will address.
You or I might wish Starmer do you these things. But he believe that people in England do not want this, otherwise he would propose them, and a politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else is no help.
However, without having seen the Labour proposals I expect that they will say something about practical cooperation with the EU and this will reduce the damage from Brexit. History shows that the NHS does better under Labour, the problem now is that there is not a lot of money in the bank. Some of the improvement will have to come from better management rather than just more money; the best hospitals, trusts etc perform much better than the worst ones.
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 23, 2024, 10:37:31 AMMy understanding is that Swann, Long and any other minister running will have to step down once Westminster is dissolved (next Friday). Not doing much for stability in NI. SF had already announced that no Stormont Minister will run for Westminster, so that's Archibald and O'Dowd (and prob Gildernew) not running in constituencies where they have a high profile.
However, Gildernew is running for the European parliament in the Midlands North West constituency, so not quite committed to Stormont alone.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2024, 10:50:02 AMa politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else is no help.
Well let's examine some of the pledges that Starmer made during his Labour Party leadership contest.
Back then, he pledged to nationalise Water, energy, rail and mail. By 2022, it was announced that Labour, under his leadership, would not nationalise water, energy or rail.
He had a list of other pledges on his website at the time, which included pledges on eg tuition fee abolition. Once he won the leadership, he rowed back on each of the pledges and the info was removed from his website.
Another of his pledges was to "bring back" free movement of people and to defend migrant's rights. By November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He pledged to tackle climate change with a £28bn spend. Then he got his bum in the seat and slashed that committment to £4.7bn.
He also pledged to end factionalism in the party and end attacks from within on Jeremy Corbyn, and I don't think I need to say more on how well he stuck to that one.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 11:45:47 AMQuote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2024, 10:50:02 AMa politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else is no help.
Well let's examine some of the pledges that Starmer made during his Labour Party leadership contest.
Back then, he pledged to nationalise Water, energy, rail and mail. By 2022, it was announced that Labour, under his leadership, would not nationalise water, energy or rail.
He had a list of other pledges on his website at the time, which included pledges on eg tuition fee abolition. Once he won the leadership, he rowed back on each of the pledges and the info was removed from his website.
Another of his pledges was to "bring back" free movement of people and to defend migrant's rights. By November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He pledged to tackle climate change with a £28bn spend. Then he got his bum in the seat and slashed that committment to £4.7bn.
He also pledged to end factionalism in the party and end attacks from within on Jeremy Corbyn, and I don't think I need to say more on how well he stuck to that one.
A leader alone does not determine the party policy. As I said, the party has to propose policies that will get it elected or it will change nothing and free movement of people is a policy that does not seem popular in England.
Soem of you need to accept Corbyn is gone and isn't coming back ffs
You specifically referred to "a politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else"
I'm simply pointing out that Kier Starmer has some significant form when it comes to running on on the back of manifesto pledges that he has no intention of honouring.
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 23, 2024, 12:05:48 PMSoem of you need to accept Corbyn is gone and isn't coming back ffs
Who suggested otherwise, Kidder?
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 22, 2024, 09:02:54 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2024, 05:50:38 PMQuote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He's a politician but has less malign intent than the Tories.
A bit like Biden and Trump, you can have an unimpressive candidate or an outright dangerous one.
I'd say theres plenty in Gaza who'd say Bidens fair dangerous as well!
Biden hasn't stopped the Israelis in Gaza, but he did not cause it.
My prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
Quote from: Feckitt on May 23, 2024, 01:43:49 PMMy prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
They should but may also be giving up a few percentage points to help Farry in North Down and Long in East Belfast, whereas Unionists will step aside to help another Unionist and overall won't give up Unionist percentages.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 11:45:47 AMQuote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2024, 10:50:02 AMa politician that runs on one manifesto intending to do something else is no help.
Well let's examine some of the pledges that Starmer made during his Labour Party leadership contest.
Back then, he pledged to nationalise Water, energy, rail and mail. By 2022, it was announced that Labour, under his leadership, would not nationalise water, energy or rail.
He had a list of other pledges on his website at the time, which included pledges on eg tuition fee abolition. Once he won the leadership, he rowed back on each of the pledges and the info was removed from his website.
Another of his pledges was to "bring back" free movement of people and to defend migrant's rights. By November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He pledged to tackle climate change with a £28bn spend. Then he got his bum in the seat and slashed that committment to £4.7bn.
He also pledged to end factionalism in the party and end attacks from within on Jeremy Corbyn, and I don't think I need to say more on how well he stuck to that one.
Like I said, the bastard couldn't lie straight in bed. You cannot trust a word that comes out of his mouth.
Quote from: Feckitt on May 23, 2024, 01:43:49 PMMy prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
Maybe, but there is no great incentive to turn out in some constituencies. Say in Newry and Armagh, where people could not name their Westminster MP and where there is no real doubt about who will be elected.
Quote from: weareros on May 23, 2024, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Feckitt on May 23, 2024, 01:43:49 PMMy prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
They should but may also be giving up a few percentage points to help Farry in North Down and Long in East Belfast, whereas Unionists will step aside to help another Unionist and overall won't give up Unionist percentages.
I wonder, for all the talk of infighting within unionism currently, will they come together and have a pact?
Quote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He was head of the CPS when they failed to prosecute Jimmy Saville back in 2009, though he claims he knew nothing about it. Sure.
Christ almighty, alright there Sunak.
Quote from: Rebel84 on May 23, 2024, 07:03:13 PMQuote from: red hander on May 22, 2024, 05:33:25 PMSad thing is, we'll be swapping one shower of odious bastards for another shower of odious bastards. I wouldn't trust Starmer as far ad I could throw the cnut.
He was head of the CPS when they failed to prosecute Jimmy Saville back in 2009, though he claims he knew nothing about it. Sure.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/21/keir-starmer-not-told-about-dropping-of-jimmy-savile-case-say-sources-dpp-labour
Some of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2024, 05:08:47 PMQuote from: weareros on May 23, 2024, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Feckitt on May 23, 2024, 01:43:49 PMMy prediction for this election in the North is that Nationalists will outpoll Unionists. This happened for first time ever at the local elections last year. The trend cannot be reversed and Unionists will never outpoll Natiobalists ever again, including in a Unity Referendum.
They should but may also be giving up a few percentage points to help Farry in North Down and Long in East Belfast, whereas Unionists will step aside to help another Unionist and overall won't give up Unionist percentages.
I wonder, for all the talk of infighting within unionism currently, will they come together and have a pact?
Belfast East : Alliance GAIN (only if Long candidate
Belfast West : SF HOLD
Belfast North : SF HOLD
Belfast South / Mid Down : SDLP HOLD
Strangford : DUP HOLD
Lagan Valley : DUP HOLD
North Down : INDEPENDENT GAIN
South Down : SF HOLD
Upper Bann : DUP HOLD
Newry Armagh : SF HOLD
Mid Ulster : SF HOLD
West Tyrone : SF HOLD
FST : SF HOLD (50/50 candidate massive)
Foyle : SDLP HOLD
East Derry : DUP HOLD
East Antrim : DUP HOLD
South Antrim : UUP GAIN
North Antrim : DUP HOLD
SF : 7
DUP : 6
SDLP : 2
ALLIANCE : 1
UUP : 1
IND : 1
I am not sure on Lagan Valley and north belfast there. I would have my doubts SF will get in again in north belfast. In lagan valley maybe? (though maybe wishful) DUP may be ousted.
Lagan Valley boundaries have changed, now bringing in some of north Lurgan (I will now be voting in Lagan Valley).
I voted in North Belfast last time when Dodds was ousted, I hope for the same luck in Lagan Valley this time round.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2024, 07:24:42 PMSome of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
I haven't seen anyone here rooting for the Tory candidate. And there's no question that Labour is the lesser of two evils, but the point is that as far as Kier Starmer himself goes, you could barely more than slide a cigarette paper between himself and your average Tory.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 08:23:18 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2024, 07:24:42 PMSome of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
I haven't seen anyone here rooting for the Tory candidate. And there's no question that Labour is the lesser of two evils, but the point is that as far as Kier Starmer himself goes, you could barely more than slide a cigarette paper between himself and your average Tory.Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 08:23:18 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2024, 07:24:42 PMSome of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
I haven't seen anyone here rooting for the Tory candidate. And there's no question that Labour is the lesser of two evils, but the point is that as far as Kier Starmer himself goes, you could barely more than slide a cigarette paper between himself and your average Tory.
Look back over recent history- Blair was voted in, Corbyn was not and there is a reason for that. Starmer clearly closer to Blair than Corby. despite being part of his team at one stage.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 23, 2024, 08:23:18 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2024, 07:24:42 PMSome of the lads need to familiarise themselves with the term "the lesser of two evils". By their very nature no politician is going to tick every box but if you find yourself rooting for the Tory candidate *ever* then you need to take a look at yourself.
I haven't seen anyone here rooting for the Tory candidate. And there's no question that Labour is the lesser of two evils, but the point is that as far as Kier Starmer himself goes, you could barely more than slide a cigarette paper between himself and your average Tory.
The average Tory, as represented by people now driven out of the party, was fairly middle of the road, but the party left those behind in its recent governments. Someone close to middle ground is ideal.
Not sure why some are getting so exercised about Starmer, he has never been in power so whatever he has said has had no effect on anyone.
On some issues he has had to align closer to the Tory position, if the issue is popular with voters. In others he will have to detach Labour from it and hammer the Tories, that's opposition for you.
You can't do anything if you aren't in power. He and Labour should be judged when they are in office.
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 23, 2024, 07:43:15 PMI am not sure on Lagan Valley and north belfast there. I would have my doubts SF will get in again in north belfast. In lagan valley maybe? (though maybe wishful) DUP may be ousted.
SF would be strong favourites for North Belfast. They're very active on the ground and other parties have a despondency about them.
Corbyn standing as an Independent and not for ToryLite
Hope he gets in.
SF should be comfortable in North Belfast, boundary changes help. FST should be the same again boundary changes help I'm actually amazed with 20 yrs of demographic shift unionists still are competitive there. Turnout for Elliot amongst unionist must be very very high.
The other SF seats are nailed on
I think SDLP will hold their 2 seats but nothing like the majorities they had last time
Upper Bann and east Derry could be in play but nationalist turnout here for whatever reason is poor.
Alliance will win EB if long is standing and they will hold North Down. I think the gap in Lagan Valley is too big so will miss out there, they will also do well in East Antrim and Strangford.
UUP could win south Antrim.
Looking forward to it should be the most interesting Westminster election here for a while.
wonder would sdlp look at south down and think we have a chance
weren`t too far away last time
Quote from: naka on May 24, 2024, 01:53:18 PMwonder would sdlp look at south down and think we have a chance
weren`t too far away last time
I'd say the gap has grown since the last time. Who's going to stand that would make a difference?
Quote from: clonian on May 24, 2024, 02:16:22 PMQuote from: naka on May 24, 2024, 01:53:18 PMwonder would sdlp look at south down and think we have a chance
weren`t too far away last time
I'd say the gap has grown since the last time. Who's going to stand that would make a difference?
probably right, i am simply looking to see which constituencies could there be a shock.
SF have a slicker operation but chris Hazard has fallen away, a few years ago he was front and centre of a fair bit of SF publicity.
Quote from: naka on May 24, 2024, 03:55:56 PMQuote from: clonian on May 24, 2024, 02:16:22 PMQuote from: naka on May 24, 2024, 01:53:18 PMwonder would sdlp look at south down and think we have a chance
weren`t too far away last time
I'd say the gap has grown since the last time. Who's going to stand that would make a difference?
probably right, i am simply looking to see which constituencies could there be a shock.
SF have a slicker operation but chris Hazard has fallen away, a few years ago he was front and centre of a fair bit of SF publicity.
I've said this before. MPs in Westminister don't make a difference in reality.
Out of sight, out of mind. SF do the right thing.
I'd say, as a quiz, it'd be hard to name the 18 MPs from the north. Unless you're a political anarok. Stormont is local and in the news a lot more.
If you look at ni question time in London, there's about 5 people at it. Nobody cares. Only people interested in being an MP is someone like the SDLP's Richie and unionists like Dodds etc. who want to get a title bestowed on them after their time in up. That's what the senior DUP members are after - Paisley and Campbell.
Granted, people will vote in huge numbers but ultimately it's pointless.
In 2016, against Hillary, Trump ran a very successful deterrence campaign.
Target voter turnout in groups that historically voted Democrat, by targeting individuals within each of those groups, who then repeat the negative messaging.
You will hear that Starmer essentially is Jeremy Corbyn. He isn't, Corbyn isn't in Starmer's party and is standing and campaigning against Starmer's party.
You will hear that Labour can't be trusted on economics as they will blow the budget and separately that they will do nothing different as they will stick to the Tory rules and therefore by implication, to Tory policies. It can't be both, and in fact it's neither.
You will hear that Labour have an open door policy on immigration. They won't.
You will hear that Labour will nationalise industries whilst at the same time breaking Starmer's leadership campaign promise to nationalise industries. It doesn't matter that the 2 can't both be true, as long as 2 different groups of voters believe that one of them is true.
The Tory election campaign, such as it is, is all about Starmer, possibly with a hint of Raynor. Be prepared for every manner of dirt to be flung at him. The Jimmy Saville stuff will resurface. The donkey field etc. expect more and more of this to pop up in social media rather than the traditional press. The latter don't like backing losers, and so whilst they dearly want a Tory victory, they know it isn't possible so they might go softer on Labour than you would imagine.
The Tory campaign has more money than ever before. It also has less canvassers than ever before and in some places is struggling for candidates. The rules have been changed to allow more money to be spent. This is Sunak vs Starmer and a central, media driven, rather than local, candidate driven election.
Of the many reasons being proffered as to why so many sitting Tory MPs are not seeking reelection, one that is not discussed is that a few of them don't want anything to do with the campaign, and the direction it is likely to go.
So Rishi rich wants mandatory national service for 18 year olds. We need to get as far away as possible from these people... (though I suspect it's about as likely as a bridge to Scotland)
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 25, 2024, 10:36:32 PMSo Rishi rich wants mandatory national service for 18 year olds. We need to get as far away as possible from these people... (though I suspect it's about as likely as a bridge to Scotland)
Talking of Bridges didn't yer man Bridgen say during the week that the Brits are currently at war with Russia but it won't be officially announced until the summer and then Sunak comes out with this.
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 25, 2024, 10:36:32 PMSo Rishi rich wants mandatory national service for 18 year olds. We need to get as far away as possible from these people... (though I suspect it's about as likely as a bridge to Scotland)
National Service didn't happen in the occupied six countries during WW2 and wouldn't happen here this time either. Sunak pandering to the far right.
Long to stand for Alliance in East Belfast, this will pressurise the new leader of the DUP.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2024, 12:49:17 AMLong to stand for Alliance in East Belfast, this will pressurise the new leader of the DUP.
She was always going to stand. I don't know why she didn't just come out as say so months ago when it was reported that the decision was made. Two party leaders going for one seat now. Expect local media outlets to totally ignore every other constituency between now and polling day.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 27, 2024, 09:30:51 AMQuote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2024, 12:49:17 AMLong to stand for Alliance in East Belfast, this will pressurise the new leader of the DUP.
She was always going to stand. I don't know why she didn't just come out as say so months ago when it was reported that the decision was made. Two party leaders going for one seat now. Expect local media outlets to totally ignore every other constituency between now and polling day.
Probably just to make it look like there would be focus on her role as Justice Minister, when the reality is that one eye has always been on Westminster.
Word on the streets is that in North Down Alex Easton will be the "unified" Unionist candidate (i.e. TUV/Reform and DUP), but if he gets in he'll allocate his Stormont MLA post to a certain Donaghadee Bin Orator..
Alliance maybe planting this seed to scare anyone with a titter of wit away from him.
Tim "Nice but dim" Collins won't cause much of a wave in this area. Doug Beattie has made a major faux pas here in picking a fellow army buddy.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 28, 2024, 10:32:15 AMWord on the streets is that in North Down Alex Easton will be the "unified" Unionist candidate (i.e. TUV/Reform and DUP), but if he gets in he'll allocate his Stormont MLA post to a certain Donaghadee Bin Orator..
Alliance maybe planting this seed to scare anyone with a titter of wit away from him.
Tim "Nice but dim" Collins won't cause much of a wave in this area. Doug Beattie has made a major faux pas here in picking a fellow army buddy.
Please anybody win but Tim Collins, even the DUP. Imagine 4-5 years of listening to that ego bloviating on the radio. No thanks.
Edit: that surely can't be serious about the Binman.
Don't know a thing about Collins other than the bit about Bush loving his "let's not be conquerors" speech. What's he done since?!
Quote from: gallsman on May 28, 2024, 10:51:55 AMDon't know a thing about Collins other than the bit about Bush loving his "let's not be conquerors" speech. What's he done since?!
He's dined out on that since.
A bit like that móron, Johnny Mercer, no real intelligence to speak off even through the plummy voice.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113)
Abbott says Labour wont have her and Starmer says he doesnt know what she's on about.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 29, 2024, 12:29:17 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113)
Abbott says Labour wont have her and Starmer says he doesnt know what she's on about.
Shambles from Labour, but I doubt it will cost them a huge amount of votes.
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:38:31 PMQuote from: lurganblue on May 29, 2024, 12:29:17 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-69072113)
Abbott says Labour wont have her and Starmer says he doesnt know what she's on about.
Shambles from Labour, but I doubt it will cost them a huge amount of votes.
The Muslim vote may not turn out and that may have an impact on several potential Labour candidates.
Starmer, Lammy and Nandy in particular are in the claws of the Israeli lobby and their funds.
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 02:58:58 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
I get the impression that Unionists (and the media) have been blindsided by this.
On current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
National Service for all 18yo's...
Tax relief on rented property
Cancelling "Mickey Mouse" degrees.
The Torys are throwing out policies two to a dozen to see if any of them will actually get traction with voters.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 29, 2024, 04:53:39 PMNational Service for all 18yo's...
Tax relief on rented property
Cancelling "Mickey Mouse" degrees.
The Torys are throwing out policies two to a dozen to see if any of them will actually get traction with voters.
That'll all go well with their voter base.
The Mickey Mouse degree thing is a good idea tbf
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 03:46:52 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 02:58:58 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
I get the impression that Unionists (and the media) have been blindsided by this.
I remember her saying that there should be a re-united Ireland as the health system would be a lot better...something like this?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 04:40:11 PMOn current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
Is the SNP in for a tanking in Scotland?
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 05:02:18 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 04:40:11 PMOn current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
Is the SNP in for a tanking in Scotland?
Yeah, I think they'll lose about half their seats - I think they have about 44 at the moment.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 04:40:11 PMOn current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
Still 29 seats too many for the c***ts!
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 05:05:49 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 05:02:18 PMQuote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2024, 04:40:11 PMOn current numbers, the Lib Dems will become the official opposition. First past the post is bollix.
Mind you some of the sitting Conservatives might retain their seats, owing to good local work and perhaps being remainers and anti Johnson, if there are any left.
LAB: 540 (+343)
CON: 29 (-347)
LIB: 46 (+38)
REF: 0 (-)
GRN: 2 (+1)
SNP: 12 (-36)
Is the SNP in for a tanking in Scotland?
Yeah, I think they'll lose about half their seats - I think they have about 44 at the moment.
They have lost some momentum since Salmond and Sturgeon were flying high.
Quote from: markl121 on May 29, 2024, 05:01:09 PMThe Mickey Mouse degree thing is a good idea tbf
Would going to Oxford and studying Classics, ancient languages, literature, history, and philosophy be considered a Mickey Mouse degree?
Quote from: johnnycool on May 29, 2024, 05:35:05 PMQuote from: markl121 on May 29, 2024, 05:01:09 PMThe Mickey Mouse degree thing is a good idea tbf
Would going to Oxford and studying Classics, ancient languages, literature, history, and philosophy be considered a Mickey Mouse degree?
Uni should teach you two things:
- how to research and learn independently of tuition
- knowledge in topics of immediate value in society
Far too many courses in far too many universities aren't worth two sh!tes for either.
If Oxford were churning out hundreds of graduates a year in ancient languages, then I'd suggest most of those graduates will find the topics covered useless; but because of the standards and expectations, they will have learned how to dig up information and learn in other matters through the rest of their life.
Probably fair to say that the average student could pick a better subject than the classics in somewhere like Oxford, but it should still offer enough transferrable skills to be useful.
... and as for the general subject.
Representative democracy is a load of balls.
If the job of running the country were based on qualifications and interview, how many of them would even get beyond initial CV screening?
Something could probably be salvaged from it if there were two houses:
- elected house of commons to bring the will of the people to governance
- elected house of professionals (professional bodies electing technically adept individuals)
No bill can be passed into law without approval of both houses.
Funnily enough, no room there for lord and lady of the manor. Who have done f**k all but either lick the right arse or fall out of the right arse.
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 05:01:20 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 03:46:52 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 02:58:58 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
I get the impression that Unionists (and the media) have been blindsided by this.
I remember her saying that there should be a re-united Ireland as the health system would be a lot better...something like this?
Yes thats her. She's right.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 07:54:25 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 05:01:20 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 03:46:52 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 29, 2024, 02:58:58 PMQuote from: Pub Bore on May 29, 2024, 12:18:44 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq554q5w7k7o
Quite a close season signing by the Shinners...
She's been a member for years and years, would have been involved with canvassing and the like.
I get the impression that Unionists (and the media) have been blindsided by this.
I remember her saying that there should be a re-united Ireland as the health system would be a lot better...something like this?
Yes thats her. She's right.
Originally from Carrickmore I believe so no surprise she has got on board with SF.
From seeing her being interviewed over the course of the nurses strike she comes across well. For SF she would have been a good person to have south of the border as they are a bit light when it comes to strong performers. I imagine she will win fairly easy but as an abstaining MP she will not do a lot or be seen much after that.
This is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
The thing with Health portfolio is that nobody with any sense wants to touch it from a political perspective.
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
You'd imagine someone with her background would be a prime candidate down the line.
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Can't see her trading being an MP for MLA.
I would be surprised to see her around Stormount that much as she would have ability to make some of her colleagues (dare I say party leader) look very average in terms of how she can handle herself / comes across.
She would be an asset to any political party as she has done the heavy lifting in the real world unlike the rest of them.
Quote from: LC on May 29, 2024, 09:39:09 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Can't see her trading being an MP for MLA.
I would be surprised to see her around Stormount that much as she would have ability to make some of her colleagues (dare I say party leader) look very average in terms of how she can handle herself / comes across.
She would be an asset to any political party as she has done the heavy lifting in the real world unlike the rest of them.
First bit- O'Neills improved big time imo since taking the job and comes across really well for the most part these days.
100% on the second.
DUP won't stand in FST official
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 29, 2024, 10:03:48 PMDUP won't stand in FST official
Didn't stand in 2019 did they?
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Bet there are a few Sinn Fein members pissed off in FST tonight who have worked their @@@@@ off the past few years and hoping that maybe they would in with a shout of being selected .............
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 29, 2024, 10:36:05 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Bet there are a few Sinn Fein members pissed off in FST tonight who have worked their @@@@@ off the past few years and hoping that maybe they would in with a shout of being selected .............
I wouldn't think so.
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 29, 2024, 10:36:05 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Bet there are a few Sinn Fein members pissed off in FST tonight who have worked their @@@@@ off the past few years and hoping that maybe they would in with a shout of being selected .............
The hard workers are usually overlooked these days anyway for someone who is the "right fit"
In the tightest seat in the whole 2019 election, I would imagine they would be backing the person who can retain the seat for the party.
A high profile big hitter is required in this seat for either side to get over the line.
Hopefully the demographics have shifted enough that its more comfortable this time.
Quote from: Jim Bob on May 29, 2024, 10:36:05 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Bet there are a few Sinn Fein members pissed off in FST tonight who have worked their @@@@@ off the past few years and hoping that maybe they would in with a shout of being selected .............
If people in grassroots politics are pissed off for not being personally rewarded then it's probably best they weren't selected.
Gavin admits there is an Irish Sea Border. Pathetic that Nolan had Jeffrey in front of him for hours and let him spoof away that checks and customs were gone - there are checks every day of the week at the ports in Belfast and Larne.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 30, 2024, 09:37:58 AMGavin admits there is an Irish Sea Border. Pathetic that Nolan had Jeffrey in front of him for hours and let him spoof away that checks and customs were gone - there are checks every day of the week at the ports in Belfast and Larne.
As there always has been?
What ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Neither candidate inspires. Least bad wins.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 30, 2024, 11:06:17 AMQuote from: Sportacus on May 30, 2024, 09:37:58 AMGavin admits there is an Irish Sea Border. Pathetic that Nolan had Jeffrey in front of him for hours and let him spoof away that checks and customs were gone - there are checks every day of the week at the ports in Belfast and Larne.
As there always has been?
Not on your Tesco groceries.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 30, 2024, 01:04:50 PMQuote from: lurganblue on May 30, 2024, 11:06:17 AMQuote from: Sportacus on May 30, 2024, 09:37:58 AMGavin admits there is an Irish Sea Border. Pathetic that Nolan had Jeffrey in front of him for hours and let him spoof away that checks and customs were gone - there are checks every day of the week at the ports in Belfast and Larne.
As there always has been?
Not on your Tesco groceries.
Is that why there were no bananas the other day. Stuck in Larne
SF not standing in Belfast East, Belfast South and Mid Down, Lagan Valley and North Down.
Another few votes for Alliance to stop the DUP.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 03:47:20 PMSF not standing in Belfast East, Belfast South and Mid Down, Lagan Valley and North Down.
Another few votes for Alliance to stop the DUP.
Will alliance do the same in fst?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 03:47:20 PMSF not standing in Belfast East, Belfast South and Mid Down, Lagan Valley and North Down.
Another few votes for Alliance to stop the DUP.
Are the SDLP standing in any of these?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 30, 2024, 03:47:20 PMBelfast South and Mid Down
Wasn't aware of that name change.
Quote from: LC on May 29, 2024, 09:39:09 PMQuote from: marty34 on May 29, 2024, 09:16:31 PMThis is the type of candidate that SF are 'going after' now I think. Moving away, to a certain extent, from the old guard. Pat is new blood, if you pardon the pun!
If she is successful, would she go down the route of Health Minister at some stage? She would have a better knowledge that most of this portfolio.
Maybe some long term planning here but needs to get elected first obviously.
Snapchat might know more?
Can't see her trading being an MP for MLA.
Maybe Minister for Health in the Dail?
I see the SDLP are running in all 18 areas. Eastwood is a joke.
SF running in 14.
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2024, 07:27:12 AMI see the SDLP are running in all 18 areas. Eastwood is a joke.
SF running in 14.
Democracy is bad now?
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2024, 07:27:12 AMI see the SDLP are running in all 18 areas. Eastwood is a joke.
SF running in 14.
He's a p***k. Any chance he'll he'll booted out of Foyle
Quote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
Another p***k!
Am I the only one who thinks this will be alot closer than what people think?
I'm just thinking of 2019 and the echo chamber on Twitter. There was speculation it could be no overall majority like 2017 (was 9/4 with the bookies) and the Tories ended up with a majority of 80!
I've no doubt that the gap will close the closer it gets to the GE. Those usual Tory voters will get itchy feet and the media will find some mud to sling at Labour.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 31, 2024, 08:42:17 AMAm I the only one who thinks this will be alot closer than what people think?
I'm just thinking of 2019 and the echo chamber on Twitter. There was speculation it could be no overall majority like 2017 (was 9/4 with the bookies) and the Tories ended up with a majority of 80!
I think there's going to be a complete obliteration, and we are unlikely the see the Tories contend for power again until the 2040s.
The parties themselves know it. The MSM know it. Twitter is now just polarised opinions instead of one way opinions, and isn't relevant.
It's a formality.
The key outcome in our futures isn't the result of this election, but when (if) Labour begin to implement socialist policies. I'd prefer they want hard and quick at it, but a slow bleed over the next decade is the more prudent approach in a country that innately is not socialist.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 31, 2024, 09:44:28 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 31, 2024, 08:42:17 AMAm I the only one who thinks this will be alot closer than what people think?
I'm just thinking of 2019 and the echo chamber on Twitter. There was speculation it could be no overall majority like 2017 (was 9/4 with the bookies) and the Tories ended up with a majority of 80!
I think there's going to be a complete obliteration, and we are unlikely the see the Tories contend for power again until the 2040s.
The parties themselves know it. The MSM know it. Twitter is now just polarised opinions instead of one way opinions, and isn't relevant.
It's a formality.
The key outcome in our futures isn't the result of this election, but when (if) Labour begin to implement socialist policies. I'd prefer they want hard and quick at it, but a slow bleed over the next decade is the more prudent approach in a country that innately is not socialist.
If you are expecting any socialist policies from Starmer you are going to be waiting a while.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 31, 2024, 09:44:28 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 31, 2024, 08:42:17 AMAm I the only one who thinks this will be alot closer than what people think?
I'm just thinking of 2019 and the echo chamber on Twitter. There was speculation it could be no overall majority like 2017 (was 9/4 with the bookies) and the Tories ended up with a majority of 80!
I think there's going to be a complete obliteration, and we are unlikely the see the Tories contend for power again until the 2040s.
The parties themselves know it. The MSM know it. Twitter is now just polarised opinions instead of one way opinions, and isn't relevant.
It's a formality.
The key outcome in our futures isn't the result of this election, but when (if) Labour begin to implement socialist policies. I'd prefer they want hard and quick at it, but a slow bleed over the next decade is the more prudent approach in a country that innately is not socialist.
There isn't much money in the kitty and any plan to borrow excessively will run into the same problems that Truss faced. Rapid change is probably impossible.
Quote from: NAG1 on May 31, 2024, 10:05:35 AMIf you are expecting any socialist policies from Starmer you are going to be waiting a while.
Adult policies would be good for a start.
The gap will narrow as we near polling day, it can't widen. The broadsheets are already wheeling out mildly anti Labour guff daily, its drip feed messaging. I'd love to see the Tories obliterated and with Reform coming from the opposite end it could happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we ultimately end up in hung parliament territory tbh.
Quote from: bennydorano on May 31, 2024, 10:28:35 AMThe gap will narrow as we near polling day, it can't widen. The broadsheets are already wheeling out mildly anti Labour guff daily, its drip feed messaging. I'd love to see the Tories obliterated and with Reform coming from the opposite end it could happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we ultimately end up in hung parliament territory tbh.
Given that Labour seem likely to win some Scottish seats then I do not anticipate a hung parliament, although the Labour majority may be reduced.
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
It's usually from Corbyn supporters, but as you say not grounded in any reality
The Tories have moved so far to the right to combat UKIP and now Reform growthbin popularity, Labour are following them in the drift right instead of sticking to what should be their principles
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
https://www.ft.com/content/f7394525-76a1-462c-a6e5-fe8273df4f7f
he is a tory
Nothing to do with his stance on Palestine - which I am not a fan of.
The IMA isnt the worst piece of legislation/policy. Starmer has highlighted immigration as a matter of serious concern also.
It may not be the most insightful piece of political analysis to be honest but it's how I feel about him.
Quote from: Brendan on May 31, 2024, 12:23:05 PMThe Tories have moved so far to the right to combat UKIP and now Reform growthbin popularity, Labour are following them in the drift right instead of sticking to what should be their principles
In what way? Economics? Social Policy?
The only I can think off is the 2 child cap. Something I think Labour will address but not straight away and possibly not quick enough.
I'm fairly confident that Labour just want to get over the line and get into office and then get on with fixing things. I'm braced for the frustration at how long it will take to fix everything. But better that, than another campaign where the right wing press just lampoon Labour and we end up with a Tory-led government that not only don't fix things but are happy to let them deteriorate???
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 12:47:43 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
https://www.ft.com/content/f7394525-76a1-462c-a6e5-fe8273df4f7f
he is a tory
Nothing to do with his stance on Palestine - which I am not a fan of.
The IMA isnt the worst piece of legislation/policy. Starmer has highlighted immigration as a matter of serious concern also.
It may not be the most insightful piece of political analysis to be honest but it's how I feel about him.
Tony Benn used to praise Thathcher for being a sign post rather than a weather vane ie she stuck to her guns. He wasn't praising the policy. Benn wasn't a Tory. Most have the wit to work that out.
Starmer once says Thatcher has the mission and the plan to get things done ie the same argument that Benn made hundreds of times over 20+ years and that makes him a Tory. That would fly in the face of all logic.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:58:34 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 12:47:43 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
https://www.ft.com/content/f7394525-76a1-462c-a6e5-fe8273df4f7f
he is a tory
Nothing to do with his stance on Palestine - which I am not a fan of.
The IMA isnt the worst piece of legislation/policy. Starmer has highlighted immigration as a matter of serious concern also.
It may not be the most insightful piece of political analysis to be honest but it's how I feel about him.
Tony Benn used to praise Thathcher for being a sign post rather than a weather vane ie she stuck to her guns. He wasn't praising the policy. Benn wasn't a Tory. Most have the wit to work that out.
Starmer once says Thatcher has the mission and the plan to get things done ie the same argument that Benn made hundreds of times over 20+ years and that makes him a Tory. That would fly in the face of all logic.
I appreciate the lesson and the much more in depth analysis. Suffice to say I just dont like him. I dont like how he back stabbed Corbyn. I dont like how he seems to be eroding the left wing nature of the LP and how he looks to be pandering to Tory voters in order to win.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
This post is incredibly illustrative of the shift in the overton window that's occurred in British politics.
IMO Starmer is further to the right on most issues than Blair, which would put him very close to 'normal' Tory territory
This breed of Tories are so far to the right that they make every previous Tory leader (apart from Thatcher) looks like a bleeding heart leftie
Quote from: Brendan on May 31, 2024, 12:23:05 PMThe Tories have moved so far to the right to combat UKIP and now Reform growthbin popularity, Labour are following them in the drift right instead of sticking to what should be their principles
This "growth" in Reform didn't really cut through in the local elections where they only got two Councillors elected in the whole of England and Wales.
The amount of screen time Farage and Tice get isn't representative of who people are actually voting for.
Their share of the vote was barely at double digits.
JC, this is first election we have to vote in the Strangford constituency. The nationalist choice isn't great compared to our previous constituency of South Down. I feel a bit dis-enfranchised! :o
Quote from: No1 on May 31, 2024, 01:59:36 PMJC, this is first election we have to vote in the Strangford constituency. The nationalist choice isn't great compared to our previous constituency of South Down. I feel a bit dis-enfranchised! :o
Welcome to the world of tactical voting ;D
Anyone but Jim Shannon, but I'd still struggle to put an X beside Mike Nesbitt and It seems that with the new boundary changes may cause the DUP issues if Alliance get those extra votes!
Haven't a clue about that particular Alliance candidate..
Never heard of Will Polland, the SDLP'er, but he's all the looks of a lad from a well heeled area like Kilclief ;D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOiCLWkWgAA7Qss?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2024, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
This post is incredibly illustrative of the shift in the overton window that's occurred in British politics.
IMO Starmer is further to the right on most issues than Blair, which would put him very close to 'normal' Tory territory
This breed of Tories are so far to the right that they make every previous Tory leader (apart from Thatcher) looks like a bleeding heart leftie
Which issues is Starmer to the right of Blair on?
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 01:23:18 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:58:34 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 12:47:43 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
https://www.ft.com/content/f7394525-76a1-462c-a6e5-fe8273df4f7f
he is a tory
Nothing to do with his stance on Palestine - which I am not a fan of.
The IMA isnt the worst piece of legislation/policy. Starmer has highlighted immigration as a matter of serious concern also.
It may not be the most insightful piece of political analysis to be honest but it's how I feel about him.
Tony Benn used to praise Thathcher for being a sign post rather than a weather vane ie she stuck to her guns. He wasn't praising the policy. Benn wasn't a Tory. Most have the wit to work that out.
Starmer once says Thatcher has the mission and the plan to get things done ie the same argument that Benn made hundreds of times over 20+ years and that makes him a Tory. That would fly in the face of all logic.
I appreciate the lesson and the much more in depth analysis. Suffice to say I just dont like him. I dont like how he back stabbed Corbyn. I dont like how he seems to be eroding the left wing nature of the LP and how he looks to be pandering to Tory voters in order to win.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that
IMHO it's not actually suffice to say "I just don't like him".
I really not sure he back stabbed Corbyn. Corbyn lost the whip due to his own intransigence. The path back was straightforward and easy to do. Yet he didn't take it. All Starmer did was stick to his guns. Imagine if Starmer had watered down the Equality Commission findings or recommendations. He would have been toast long ago.
I do think Starmer is getting the NEC to grant winnable seats to certain individuals. These include people who are left wing but not on the left of the party. Every leader, including Corbyn, has done the same. Selections are also being granted to the favoured children of some unions. The latter is hardly a purge of the left and again is just something Labour as a party has always done. Starmer doesn't want his government to be shackled by the ERG of the left. He is probably correct in that.
And as for ex-Tory voters. Labour has never and can never win an election without the votes of people who previously voted Tory. You have never had and will never have a Labour government that doesn't successfully appeal to these numbers.
There is a lot of harm to be undone. Labour need a huge majority and at least 2 terms. That means way more ex-Tory voters that is required for a hung parliament or a narrow majority. The votes can't be magicked up. They have to be won.
The alternative to this is a Tory government and an Overton Window that drifts off into laalaa land.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMThat really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
I know I posted some of this before, but Starmer is very much in step with tory style politics on a lot of issues.
He rowed back on his pledge to nationalise water, energy and rail.
He rowed back on a pledge to abolish tuition fees.
In November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He has efectively led a purge of as many lef wing/socialists as possible form his party.
He backs the torys on a cap on child benefits and on bedroom taxes.
He has a looong history of antagonism towards the trans community, and backs the tories on a range of trans exclusionary policies.
When the tories announced their intention to cut their spening on tackling climate change, Saarmer was quick out of the blocks to criticise them, and pledged Labour would spend £28bn on it. Within a few months, he slashed that figure to £4.7bn.
Labour pledged to support "whatever measures the government takes" on covid and later praised the Tory response to the crisis as "an amazing piece of work".
He has refused to support calls to rejoin the EU single market or customs union.
He has refused to overturn the two child benefit rule.
Nobody is suggesting that he is identical to the tories, nor worse than them, but the fact is that on a lot of issues you could barely slide a cigarette paper between them. He certainly is not the personification of the sort of centre-left, union supporting Labour party that most people traditionally would have had.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 02:40:04 PMQuote from: Franko on May 31, 2024, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
This post is incredibly illustrative of the shift in the overton window that's occurred in British politics.
IMO Starmer is further to the right on most issues than Blair, which would put him very close to 'normal' Tory territory
This breed of Tories are so far to the right that they make every previous Tory leader (apart from Thatcher) looks like a bleeding heart leftie
Which issues is Starmer to the right of Blair on?
Immigration
Benefits
EU (Won't countenance rejoin)
Trade Union links
Middle East issues
to name a few
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 01:23:18 PMI appreciate the lesson and the much more in depth analysis. Suffice to say I just dont like him. I dont like how he back stabbed Corbyn. I dont like how he seems to be eroding the left wing nature of the LP and how he looks to be pandering to Tory voters in order to win.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that
It is the business of politicians to represent the electorate, not complain about them. While the recent Tory governments are unpleasant, there are also middle-of-the-road policies that traditional Tory voters might support that are not unacceptable.
The idea that should impose policies on the majority because you are right and they are wrong recalls the recent attitude of the Brexiteers.
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2024, 03:25:34 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 02:40:04 PMQuote from: Franko on May 31, 2024, 01:33:20 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on May 31, 2024, 08:30:26 AMQuote from: seafoid on May 30, 2024, 04:09:10 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2024, 11:35:11 AMWhat ever about the local politicians running for Westminster - the only real interest I have in that is the nationalist v unionist count at the end of it. An increase in the number of nationalists might nudge us further towards a border poll.
It feels inevitable that the Tories are going to lose in a landslide Labour victory and as much as I want to see that, I can't help but feel Starmer is not going to change much. I'm not a fan of his. It's such a pity Labour aren't going in with a Corbyn-esque leader who I think would do some real good. I know he wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think he was honest and had the good of all people at heart.
Starmer is the continuity candidate.
Starmer is basically a tory
That really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
This post is incredibly illustrative of the shift in the overton window that's occurred in British politics.
IMO Starmer is further to the right on most issues than Blair, which would put him very close to 'normal' Tory territory
This breed of Tories are so far to the right that they make every previous Tory leader (apart from Thatcher) looks like a bleeding heart leftie
Which issues is Starmer to the right of Blair on?
Immigration
Benefits
EU (Won't countenance rejoin)
Trade Union links
Middle East issues
to name a few
In what way is Starmer to the right of Blair on immigration, Trade Union Links and the Middle East?
As for the EU is his policy to the right of Blair? Really? Even the Liberal Democrats are not countenancing rejoin now. Not sure who is? The last thing the UK needs right now is a rejoin debate. I am at the front of the queue in wanting back in but it would be hard for to take seriously any politician who thought now was the time for that debate.
The other issue was benefits. To be to the right of Blair essentially you are contending that in the economic circumstances Blair inherited (and then under Brown, cultivated) Starmer would have made decisions to the right of Blair or that in the circumstances that Starmer will inherit, Blair would make decisions to the left of Starmer. What would those decisions be? What polices are you talking about?
I know you have listed 5 "things" but have you made any "points"?
Quote from: Snapchap on May 31, 2024, 03:24:13 PMQuote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2024, 12:07:28 PMThat really is lazy analysis.
What has defined the 14 years of the Tories in government? How much of that overlaps with Starmer.
The Tories took us out of Europe. Would Starmer have done that?
The Tories have fixated on immigration. Has Starmer?
The Tories have dreamed up bullshit, red meat policies like Rwanda. Has Starmer? Will he back out of the Tory mess?
The Tories are obsessed with Culture Wars and "anti-woke". Has Starmer stoked those issues?
The Tories brought us austerity. As tight as the fiscal situation is, there is no prospect of Osborne era austerity.
The Tories have cosied up to Meloni, Orban etc. No indication or even prospect of Starmer doing likewise.
The big issue of our time is what the Tories are describing as "the green crap". Starmer is miles ahead of the Tories on this.
I don't think anyone even believes that there is a significant overlap between Labour and the Tories on these issues.
Is the Starmer-is-a-Tory trope really just a dissatisfaction with his stance on Gaza? Or is it the failure to recognise that whilst in "ming vase" mode Labour are highlighting the economic shitshow they will inherit and dampening down expectations of what they can achieve, and more importantly, how quickly?
Maybe it's easier not to think about these things and roll out the lazy analysis?
I know I posted some of this before, but Starmer is very much in step with tory style politics on a lot of issues.
He rowed back on his pledge to nationalise water, energy and rail.
He rowed back on a pledge to abolish tuition fees.
In November 2022, he announced his intention to end 'immigration dependency', a stance so right wing that he won the priase of Nigel Farage (he also complained that there are too many foreigners working in the NHS).
He pledged that he would "work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people". Since taking the party leadership, he banned Labour frontbenchers from attending picket lines and even sacked one of his MPs for standing alongside striking RMT workers.
He has efectively led a purge of as many lef wing/socialists as possible form his party.
He backs the torys on a cap on child benefits and on bedroom taxes.
He has a looong history of antagonism towards the trans community, and backs the tories on a range of trans exclusionary policies.
When the tories announced their intention to cut their spening on tackling climate change, Saarmer was quick out of the blocks to criticise them, and pledged Labour would spend £28bn on it. Within a few months, he slashed that figure to £4.7bn.
Labour pledged to support "whatever measures the government takes" on covid and later praised the Tory response to the crisis as "an amazing piece of work".
He has refused to support calls to rejoin the EU single market or customs union.
He has refused to overturn the two child benefit rule.
Nobody is suggesting that he is identical to the tories, nor worse than them, but the fact is that on a lot of issues you could barely slide a cigarette paper between them. He certainly is not the personification of the sort of centre-left, union supporting Labour party that most people traditionally would have had.
Is your argument that the economic circumstances are there to a) buy back to those utilities? b) they should be bought back whether they are affordable or not or c) there should be enforced confiscation?
I assume you are not arguing that the economy has improved or stayed the same. What is your view on the policy of taking the rail franchises back for free as they expire? Maybe that's a policy you agree with?
Are you against GBE perse or it is the full nationalisation of the energy industry you want? Have you a costing and funding proposal for that? I don't think Starmer ever promised to nationalise that whole industry. I could be wrong? Surely someone would've accused him of talking bollix at the time if they thought that was what he meant?
Immigration dependency is a bad thing. Immigration is not. His stance on immigration is very far from the Tories.
The £28bn pledge has been cut. But not to £4.7bn. GBE alone is over £8bn.
Is it appropriate for font benchers to be on picket lines alongside people you have to negotiate with if you get into to power? The unions seemed pretty happy last week with Starmer. What are they getting wrong?
What is the long history antagonism on trans? I know the Tories lambaste him for being pro Trans. Don't know the wider story you refer to. Perhaps you have a long litany of evidence?
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2024, 01:33:50 PMQuote from: Brendan on May 31, 2024, 12:23:05 PMThe Tories have moved so far to the right to combat UKIP and now Reform growthbin popularity, Labour are following them in the drift right instead of sticking to what should be their principles
This "growth" in Reform didn't really cut through in the local elections where they only got two Councillors elected in the whole of England and Wales.
The amount of screen time Farage and Tice get isn't representative of who people are actually voting for.
Their share of the vote was barely at double digits.
Like Jim Allister.
f**king Farage. So tired of him.
Quote from: gallsman on June 03, 2024, 06:03:55 PMf**king Farage. So tired of him.
https://x.com/DUPleader/status/1797662088627994889
Quote from: dec on June 03, 2024, 06:51:40 PMQuote from: gallsman on June 03, 2024, 06:03:55 PMf**king Farage. So tired of him.
https://x.com/DUPleader/status/1797662088627994889
;D he fairly changed his tune! A ballbag.
Ball bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
This Richard Tice lad is such a f**king cuck.
His girlfriend Oakenshit is even worse. Odious pair
Quote from: red hander on June 05, 2024, 12:06:01 PMHis girlfriend Oakenshit is even worse. Odious pair
+2
Just watching the bbcni news tonight about the East Belfast naoiscoil moving to Orangefield and becoming a Bunscoil. 40 kids for P1 and 200+ expressions of interest from parents. Astonishing symbolism of an Irish school being established in East Belfast on a site that is literally named after the Orange Field. The demographic tidal wave sweeping the North is unstoppable. Next month it is possible that of Belfast's 4 MP's, none will be Unionist. The GAA is also flourishing in East Belfast. Unbelievable for those of us who grew up during darker times. In last years local elections only 28% of people in Belfast voted for Unionist candidates. Nationalist votes outnumbered Unionists accross the 6 counties and this trend will be even more marked this year. Now that Unionism/Protestantism is a confirmed minority the continued dwindling of numbers will actually speed up at an astonishing pace. The end is nigh! Unionism is built on Supremacy, without that they have nothing.
Sweet reading that 🤝🤓
Quote from: Feckitt on June 05, 2024, 08:48:52 PMJust watching the bbcni news tonight about the East Belfast naoiscoil moving to Orangefield and becoming a Bunscoil. 40 kids for P1 and 200+ expressions of interest from parents. Astonishing symbolism of an Irish school being established in East Belfast on a site that is literally named after the Orange Field. The demographic tidal wave sweeping the North is unstoppable. Next month it is possible that of Belfast's 4 MP's, none will be Unionist. The GAA is also flourishing in East Belfast. Unbelievable for those of us who grew up during darker times. In last years local elections only 28% of people in Belfast voted for Unionist candidates. Nationalist votes outnumbered Unionists accross the 6 counties and this trend will be even more marked this year. Now that Unionism/Protestantism is a confirmed minority the continued dwindling of numbers will actually speed up at an astonishing pace. The end is nigh! Unionism is built on Supremacy, without that they have nothing.
Great post. Very true.
Even giving out about Pat Cullen standing as a candidate (and a quality one at that) in FST.
Them days of dictating to nationalists who's a suitable candidate etc. are long over.
All about demographics now and it's moving faster than anyone thinks.
Unionist supremacy is indeed over and they're still coming to terms with it, so be gentle with them, it is a culture shock.
The one niggling issue is that the PSNI very much have a unionist mindset and that still needs to be addressed.
Always knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2024, 09:06:02 AMAlways knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
Now I realise what the phrase Croppy lie down really referred to
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2024, 09:06:02 AMAlways knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
;D ;D. From Wiki
"Several people claimed to be the inventor of the phrase, including Gershon Legman,[4][5] Rod McKuen,[6] radical activists Penelope and Franklin Rosemont and Tor Faegre,[7][8] and Diane Newell Meyer, a senior at the University of Oregon in 1965,[8] but the earliest uses in print appear to have been in anti-war protests in Berkeley, California earlier in 1965 than the April and May uses cited by Penelope Rosemont and Diane Newell Meyer. Articles mentioning signs and bumper stickers with the phrase were reported in the Daily Californian in February[9] and the Oakland Tribune in March.[10] Barbara Smoker claimed to have financed the manufacture of the first "Make Love, Not War" badges.[11] This quote is also attributed to Herbert Marcuse, a German philosopher who emigrated to the United States in the thirties and was an outspoken war critic (cit. quote.org)."
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2024, 09:06:02 AMAlways knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
;D
Quote from: HiMucker on June 06, 2024, 09:36:52 AMQuote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2024, 09:06:02 AMAlways knew riding would be the way out of this.
Make love not war - what genius said this?
;D ;D. From Wiki
"Several people claimed to be the inventor of the phrase, including Gershon Legman,[4][5] Rod McKuen,[6] radical activists Penelope and Franklin Rosemont and Tor Faegre,[7][8] and Diane Newell Meyer, a senior at the University of Oregon in 1965,[8] but the earliest uses in print appear to have been in anti-war protests in Berkeley, California earlier in 1965 than the April and May uses cited by Penelope Rosemont and Diane Newell Meyer. Articles mentioning signs and bumper stickers with the phrase were reported in the Daily Californian in February[9] and the Oakland Tribune in March.[10] Barbara Smoker claimed to have financed the manufacture of the first "Make Love, Not War" badges.[11] This quote is also attributed to Herbert Marcuse, a German philosopher who emigrated to the United States in the thirties and was an outspoken war critic (cit. quote.org)."
Thanks Mucker I piqued your interest it would appear 🤓
Someone stick an oul Wiki edit that big jibbajabba off tinternet rekindled the phrases' popularity (9 months before Ireland became united)
Cheers
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 03, 2024, 09:19:33 PMBall bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
Oh, he believes it, all right. Sure, only a fool wouldn't.
Rishi Sunak seems to have made a major blunder nipping out early from the D-Day commeration to do a TV interview.
Quote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 07, 2024, 09:36:56 AMRishi Sunak seems to have made a major blunder nipping out early from the D-Day commeration to do a TV interview.
Don't think it would matter what he does at the minute, he just goes from one disaster to the next.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 07, 2024, 09:42:09 AMQuote from: Gerard O'Neill on June 07, 2024, 09:36:56 AMRishi Sunak seems to have made a major blunder nipping out early from the D-Day commeration to do a TV interview.
Don't think it would matter what he does at the minute, he just goes from one disaster to the next.
He'll find it tough to get a gig in politics after this, not that a multimillionaire will be too concerned about
Peter donaghy has his predictions on twitter. Some look right others I'm not sure but it's interesting to look at all the stats. It's almost like a free hit for nationalists this time. I can't see them losing any seats. A couple of long shots too although highly unlikely but you never know. The DUP could lose a couple to alliance and 1 to UUP. Bring it on
I wonder how good a chance has Robin Swann in south Antrim?
He seems level headed and comes across well as the ex-Health Minister/Covid etc.
Alliance, SF and SDLP could vote tacticalky in this one to boot the DUP out.
Quote from: marty34 on June 07, 2024, 10:27:06 AMI wonder how good a chance has Robin Swann in south Antrim?
He seems level headed and comes across well as the ex-Health Minister/Covid etc.
Alliance, SF and SDLP could vote tacticalky in this one to boot the DUP out.
Think this is one the DUP could lose for sure, Swann has a good profile and gets the farming vote out too.
I can imagine all AP voters will throw behind him as well to remove the DUP.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 07, 2024, 10:29:26 AMQuote from: marty34 on June 07, 2024, 10:27:06 AMI wonder how good a chance has Robin Swann in south Antrim?
He seems level headed and comes across well as the ex-Health Minister/Covid etc.
Alliance, SF and SDLP could vote tacticalky in this one to boot the DUP out.
Think this is one the DUP could lose for sure, Swann has a good profile and gets the farming vote out too.
I can imagine all AP voters will throw behind him as well to remove the DUP.
Who's Swann up against?
Paul Girvan DUP
He'd be surely more popular than that weasel?
Do the polls have it close?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:05:06 AMHe'd be surely more popular than that weasel?
Do the polls have it close?
Very tight.
Quite a few seats this time will be close.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 07, 2024, 11:08:55 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:05:06 AMHe'd be surely more popular than that weasel?
Do the polls have it close?
Very tight.
Quite a few seats this time will be close.
SF won't be a million miles away either in SA which may stop nationalists from tactically voting for swann otherwise he would be clear favourite
Would it be wiser from SF to have one less DUP seat?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:13:00 AMWould it be wiser from SF to have one less DUP seat?
Think it makes so little difference either way.
I'm looking at the lesser of two evils ;)
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 07, 2024, 11:11:05 AMQuote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 07, 2024, 11:08:55 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:05:06 AMHe'd be surely more popular than that weasel?
Do the polls have it close?
Very tight.
Quite a few seats this time will be close.
SF won't be a million miles away either in SA which may stop nationalists from tactically voting for swann otherwise he would be clear favourite
Not sure about that. I think it's about Swann and the DUP.
Issue is that you can't really judge a party's vote in these type of elections as some parties aren't standing in certain areas and others are voting tactically etc.
Will that not always be the case though?
Rishi has touched a nerve heading home early from the D-Day commemoration.
It looks like he has completely ruined himself. The daily mail etc have even turned against him. Huge political own goal. The guy is an imbecile.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 07, 2024, 04:32:44 PMWill that not always be the case though?
Got to be moreseo in a ftp election though surely? Like a sensible person who might vote sdlp/sf usually in east belfast for talk sake might vote alliance as they have a realistic chance of being elected. If there were multiple candidates being elected they'd give a shinner first preference and maybe alliance second.
Yeah you are probably right
South Antrim is a dark horse constituency for SF. They made huge strides in this area in last years historic council elections. If the DUP and UUP are neck and neck and the TUV get a few votes then SF could be very close indeed.
Quote from: Feckitt on June 07, 2024, 05:19:45 PMSouth Antrim is a dark horse constituency for SF. They made huge strides in this area in last years historic council elections. If the DUP and UUP are neck and neck and the TUV get a few votes then SF could be very close indeed.
I think the reason the UUP will be in the running will be because of tactical voting by Alliance, SF and the SDLP.
Stormont elections are different.
That First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 07, 2024, 11:12:03 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas
Quote from: burdizzo on June 07, 2024, 11:12:03 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Will they get many seats
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 07, 2024, 11:26:43 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 07, 2024, 11:12:03 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Will they get many seats
Probably not much more than a handful.
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 07, 2024, 11:18:42 PMQuote from: burdizzo on June 07, 2024, 11:12:03 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2024, 07:28:17 PMThat First past the post system is designed for 2 Paries and to keep it that way.
Needs Reform.
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas
There was a referendum on the issue in the UK in 2011, one of the reasons there was a the Liberal/Tory coalition government. Tories opposed it.
Quote from: burdizzo on June 06, 2024, 10:28:31 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on June 03, 2024, 09:19:33 PMBall bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
Oh, he believes it, all right. Sure, only a fool wouldn't.
Farage is a fascinating character. When I watch him in debates he just seems to abuse the questioner or the opponent. I cannot get a bead on his policy, line of thought of factual underpinning.
Would Burdizzo or any other poster be able to point to somewhere where Farage has set this out? Did he have a manifesto for the last election?
I would be worried that it's all fluff and he is just making money out of vulnerable supporters by abusing other vulnerable people.
Happy to be put right by quality evidence.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 08, 2024, 10:16:49 AMQuote from: burdizzo on June 06, 2024, 10:28:31 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on June 03, 2024, 09:19:33 PMBall bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
Oh, he believes it, all right. Sure, only a fool wouldn't.
Farage is a fascinating character. When I watch him in debates he just seems to abuse the questioner or the opponent. I cannot get a bead on his policy, line of thought of factual underpinning.
Would Burdizzo or any other poster be able to point to somewhere where Farage has set this out? Did he have a manifesto for the last election?
I would be worried that it's all fluff and he is just making money out of vulnerable supporters by abusing other vulnerable people.
Happy to be put right by quality evidence.
It's no surprise he's a Trump acolyte.
Even for Boris this is spectacularly twattish. A complete and utter buffoon.
https://x.com/BorisJohnson/status/1799147254697304307
Talking of elections
https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2024/2024/0608/1453745-reaction/
Quote from: smelmoth on June 08, 2024, 10:16:49 AMQuote from: burdizzo on June 06, 2024, 10:28:31 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on June 03, 2024, 09:19:33 PMBall bag is too kind. A c**t at best. Doubt he even believes anything he even says. Making loads of money peddling his hate.
Oh, he believes it, all right. Sure, only a fool wouldn't.
Farage is a fascinating character. When I watch him in debates he just seems to abuse the questioner or the opponent. I cannot get a bead on his policy, line of thought of factual underpinning.
Would Burdizzo or any other poster be able to point to somewhere where Farage has set this out? Did he have a manifesto for the last election?
I would be worried that it's all fluff and he is just making money out of vulnerable supporters by abusing other vulnerable people.
Happy to be put right by quality evidence.
burdizzo is clearly taking his time to wade through the mountains of detailed policy documents and peer reviewed analysis that Team Farage have produced over the years before responding.
;D
Did ye hear that veteran English Labour chap's comnent about Farage?
Why is Farage celebrating D Day? His side lost!
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2024, 06:45:05 PM;D
Did ye gear that veteran English Labour chap's comnent about Farage?
Why is Farage celebrating D Day? His side lost!
Very good!
I see Farage, whose party just a week or so ago agreed an alliance with the TUV, has endorsed Sammy Wilson and Ian Og, who Jim Allister will be standing against. Jim is disappointed. Great to see him being shit on from a height
Also on Farage it's a clear illustration to whatever is left of the Tory party in 4 weeks time not to go near Farage. It was correctly said that Johnson was only interested in himself. Johnson is an amateur relative to Farage.
Farage is campaigning to become leader of the opposition. Don't think he has a chanve in that but, incredibly he has continuously said over the last 3 days that if a politician says they are sorry then that should be the end of any matter. That will work well when trying to hold a government to account.
I wouldn't undersell Johnson tbh. Johnson became the prime minister of the UK. You think about that and it's madness. He conned lots of people here there and everywhere and he is probably currently making a fortune on the private speaking circuit and will continue to do so for most of his life.
They're very comparable but I don't think Farage is as capable as Johnson. I always do wonder who is backing him mind you. He gets a massively disproportionate amount of airtime.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 10, 2024, 05:07:21 PMI see Farage, whose party just a week or so ago agreed an alliance with the TUV, has endorsed Sammy Wilson and Ian Og, who Jim Allister will be standing against. Jim is disappointed. Great to see him being shit on from a height
That's crazy. Jim has been double-crossed.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 10, 2024, 05:07:21 PMI see Farage, whose party just a week or so ago agreed an alliance with the TUV, has endorsed Sammy Wilson and Ian Og, who Jim Allister will be standing against. Jim is disappointed. Great to see him being shit on from a height
Would not take long to count the brain cells among that lot.
Maybe the D'dee KC might get an endorsement come the next local elections.
Quote from: marty34 on June 10, 2024, 05:59:13 PMQuote from: Dougal Maguire on June 10, 2024, 05:07:21 PMI see Farage, whose party just a week or so ago agreed an alliance with the TUV, has endorsed Sammy Wilson and Ian Og, who Jim Allister will be standing against. Jim is disappointed. Great to see him being shit on from a height
That's crazy. Jim has been double-crossed.
Wonder what shade of gammon red that's turned him ;D