As we approach the 25th anniversary what do people remember? I went to watch The Agreement on the Lyric last night and it brought back memories of News watching and anticipation. It also gave a great insight into what likely happened behind the scenes that we did not know, in particular the pressure on Trimble in particular.
The Womens Coalition and David Ervine . The UUP was still the main Unionist party
I mainly remember the euphoria of the night it was all agreed.
Can't remember if it was in the lead up or the aftermath, but I was at an L&H (I think) sponsored debate at UCD where George Mitchell, Brid Rodgers (I think), David Ervine and others were there selling and celebrating the agreement. One of the Kennedy sisters was US ambassador at the time and also in the hall.
Only fly in the ointment was Robert McCartney, who got very angry when the crowd started hissing "shame" at some of his boloxology. "Shame on you" he roared. w**ker!
Ruth Patterson giving a completely reasonable well thought out response to it
https://youtu.be/KEq3c0nbkkg (https://youtu.be/KEq3c0nbkkg)
Remember everyone at home cheering at the TV when the referendum result was announced. Remember the pack that was delivered to every home laying it all out.
Peelers getting burned out of their homes by their loyalist neighbours..
Car cavalcade down the Falls Road as if a UI had been announced.
David Ervine, standing behind Paisley at the gates of Stormont reminding Paisley that he can still remember the colour of his wallpaper in 74 when Paisley was proclaiming to the world that he would never sit down with "terrorists".
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 30, 2023, 01:44:28 PM
As we approach the 25th anniversary what do people remember? I went to watch The Agreement on the Lyric last night and it brought back memories of News watching and anticipation. It also gave a great insight into what likely happened behind the scenes that we did not know, in particular the pressure on Trimble in particular.
I'm booked for this myself next week. Looking forward to it.
Quote from: lurganblue on March 30, 2023, 04:52:54 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 30, 2023, 01:44:28 PM
As we approach the 25th anniversary what do people remember? I went to watch The Agreement on the Lyric last night and it brought back memories of News watching and anticipation. It also gave a great insight into what likely happened behind the scenes that we did not know, in particular the pressure on Trimble in particular.
I'm booked for this myself next week. Looking forward to it.
Well worth it. Although loosely based it does give a sense of what it was like.
On Good Friday itself , I Was listening to Man Utd v Liverpool match on the radio. Every few minutes during commentary they kept reporting that there's an agreement been done between the parties at Stormont
Michael Owen equalised for Liverpool then was sent off. Finished 1-1, another dent to united's title hopes that year.
It's weird what you remember. I couldn't even remember who Liverpool or United played last week but I remembered all that from 25 years ago
Jeebus. Good memory there Austin. Mind that match but not that it coincided with this.
As an aside i was watchin Hamburger Hill and took a break to be met with the news that those 2 off duty army/policemen had been bate to death at the funerals back in the day. But anyway...
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 31, 2023, 03:35:04 PM
On Good Friday itself , I Was listening to Man Utd v Liverpool match on the radio. Every few minutes during commentary they kept reporting that there's an agreement been done between the parties at Stormont
Michael Owen equalised for Liverpool then was sent off. Finished 1-1, another dent to united's title hopes that year.
It's weird what you remember. I couldn't even remember who Liverpool or United played last week but I remembered all that from 25 years ago
I don't remember the date that Princess Diana died, but I remember that Liverpool were due to play Newcastle. I went around to a bar near me where NYC Liverpool supporters met only to discover that the game had been postponed.
Remember very little of it to be honest, not like me as good memory of so many other events from the 90's,
Was living in the Holylands at the time and I remember the voting station was at primary school near Botanic Gardens.
On the anniversary of the GFA, yes there's noise about the courage of Trimble the good Samaritan, good because he bucked the trend the rest of the Samaritan tribe were a pile of sheeeeit.
Something that I was not aware of but now being remembered is the role of the Women's Coalition in the negotiations, the constant condescending jibes they endured and their very positive input to the settlement. So much so that the 'women involved template' has become an essential part of other conflict negotiated settlements.
Quote from: Main Street on March 31, 2023, 10:23:55 PM
On the anniversary of the GFA, yes there's noise about the courage of Trimble the good Samaritan, good because he bucked the trend the rest of the Samaritan tribe were a pile of sheeeeit.
Something that I was not aware of but now being remembered is the role of the Women's Coalition in the negotiations, the constant condescending jibes they endured and their very positive input to the settlement. So much so that the 'women involved template' has become an essential part of other conflict negotiated settlements.
Yeah, they got a lot of bad manners from the unionists at that time.
David Ervine used his common sense over tribalism.
Paisley getting heckled by loyalists. Calling him the "Grand old Duke of York" and him roaring back about them and their "republican friends."
Really the GFA was the Anglo-Irish Treaty part 2. 25 years later and no closer to a UI. The good part of the GFA was the end to violence being suffered by innocent people regardless of who dished it out. Can a political way bring about a UI? we have seen what has happened in the 26 counties since 1921.
I remember the Good Friday Utd v Liverpool game and Michael Owen being sent off and the GFA announcement on the News but I can't for the life of me remember voting on it.
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 11:04:17 PM
Can a political way bring about a UI? we have seen what has happened in the 26 counties since 1921.
What has happened in the 26 counties since 1921?
I had just turned 18 and was able to vote. Remember the emotion of it. It genuinely seemed like a new dawn. So much promised but ultimately never delivered upon. The DUP chirped from the side-lines and destabilised the entire process for years. Of course the big prize was peace and the the promise that organisations would transition away from violence. Society would be integrated but if anything we have become more entrenched. Hume and Trimble had the ability to lead, to imagine something different, something that todays leaders Foster, Donaldson, O'Neill and Mary Lou seem incapable of. I suppose if your existence is based on making your base distrust the other side then anything other than what we have now is impossible.
Such a pity. So much more could have been achieved.
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 11:04:17 PM
Really the GFA was the Anglo-Irish Treaty part 2. 25 years later and no closer to a UI. The good part of the GFA was the end to violence being suffered by innocent people regardless of who dished it out. Can a political way bring about a UI? we have seen what has happened in the 26 counties since 1921.
Which is what...?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 30, 2023, 06:09:47 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 30, 2023, 04:52:54 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 30, 2023, 01:44:28 PM
As we approach the 25th anniversary what do people remember? I went to watch The Agreement on the Lyric last night and it brought back memories of News watching and anticipation. It also gave a great insight into what likely happened behind the scenes that we did not know, in particular the pressure on Trimble in particular.
I'm booked for this myself next week. Looking forward to it.
Well worth it. Although loosely based it does give a sense of what it was like.
Great show, with some quality performances. The portrayal of Tony Blair was hilarious at times.
As you say, it really delved into the struggles that Trimble had to contend with. In contrast I thought it gave quite a simplistic view of Adams' struggles. That being said, it really is a fantastic show. Would highly recommend
Quote from: Piskin on April 01, 2023, 11:04:17 PM
Really the GFA was the Anglo-Irish Treaty part 2. 25 years later and no closer to a UI. The good part of the GFA was the end to violence being suffered by innocent people regardless of who dished it out. Can a political way bring about a UI? we have seen what has happened in the 26 counties since 1921.
the north has normalised the status quo. That hasn't changed in 25 years.
The culture, media, education, etc reinforce this.
Rich, comfortable societies do not vote for change.
irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/03/03/will-the-economic-argument-for-accepting-the-windsor-framework-prevail/... The economic dividend after 1998 was much less than hoped for; NI looked increasingly stagnant compared to the Republic, the public sector remained a very dominant part of the economy, poverty levels were still high and the subvention remained essential
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 06, 2023, 11:53:53 AM
Rich, comfortable societies do not vote for change.
Except the Brexiteer looneys in England.
Quote from: dec on March 31, 2023, 04:10:42 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 31, 2023, 03:35:04 PM
On Good Friday itself , I Was listening to Man Utd v Liverpool match on the radio. Every few minutes during commentary they kept reporting that there's an agreement been done between the parties at Stormont
Michael Owen equalised for Liverpool then was sent off. Finished 1-1, another dent to united's title hopes that year.
It's weird what you remember. I couldn't even remember who Liverpool or United played last week but I remembered all that from 25 years ago
I don't remember the date that Princess Diana died, but I remember that Liverpool were due to play Newcastle. I went around to a bar near me where NYC Liverpool supporters met only to discover that the game had been postponed.
Yup remember that like the back of my hand...woke up at my mates house after a night out and was gutted the game was postponed. Was looking forward to heading in for a roast and hair of the dog
Why is/was their opposition to the GFA, i.e. what were the reasons for those voting 'no'?
Because Unioists didn't get total victory and a return to 1922
- 68?
On our side...we recognised Partition and the right of the 6 Cos to decide its own future?
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/04/07/diarmaid-ferriter-north-still-not-the-shared-society-belfast-agreement-promised/
Diarmaid Ferriter: North still not the shared society Belfast Agreement promised
Institutionalising two tribes and structuring power sharing accordingly is seen by many as flaw of accord
Fri Apr 7 2023 - 05:00
State documents released in London, Belfast and Dublin in recent years offer revealing insights into the mentalities and methods that went in to the making of the Belfast Agreement 25 years ago this week. The archives are littered with initiative, creativity, setbacks, tantrums, wordplay, ambiguity, denial and the painstaking efforts of politicians, diplomats and civil servants as they drafted and redrafted. A friend of talks chairman George Mitchell later recorded how he had trained himself "not to luxuriate in drama" in a process drowning in it.
The dialogue and risks ultimately bore fruit, but that makes it all the more dispiriting that the shared society supposed to develop from splitting power and, in Seamus Heaney's words, the sense of "Ulsterness as a shared attribute", remains sadly inadequate or elusive.
The broad acceptance that differences in Northern Ireland needed to be resolved peacefully was hard won, and the relief should not be forgotten given a death toll of over 3,600 during the Troubles. Even in 1998, 58 people were killed. For all the "insider accounts" books or biographies and memoirs from the participants, the most important book published since the agreement remains David McKittrick's Lost Lives in 1999, systemically detailing the 3,636 Troubles-related deaths from 1969-1999, 56 per cent of them civilians.
[ Prisoner release: A quarter-century later, this part of the Belfast Agreement is still an open wound ]
There is greater ease now, but a quarter of a century was never going to relieve the weight of trauma engendered by the scale of the Troubles. The title of Feargal Cochrane's 2013 book was Northern Ireland: The Reluctant Peace. Devolution, he argued, had brought stability but no reconciliation: "in the end we are on our own, joined at the hip to the very people we most mistrust". David Park's 2008 novel The Truth Commissioner captures Belfast's "favourite passion of self-consoling mythology"; the commissioner Henry Stanley presides over "some truth but little reconciliation". Anna Burn's 2018 novel Milkman excavates the harrowing dark days, the codes and doublespeak, but also, when change might be possible, the overwhelming urge to drift back "to the view that was always familiar, dependable, inevitable".
READ MORE
Diarmaid Ferriter: North still not the shared society Belfast Agreement promised
Diarmaid Ferriter: North still not the shared society Belfast Agreement promised
Diarmaid Ferriter: Patricia Hoey was the first of many Women of Honour
Diarmaid Ferriter: Patricia Hoey was the first of many Women of Honour
Diarmaid Ferriter: Evictions and villainous landlords are part of what we are
Diarmaid Ferriter: Evictions and villainous landlords are part of what we are
Biden might be proud to be Irish but don't expect him to get sucked into Stormont stand-off
Biden might be proud to be Irish but don't expect him to get sucked into Stormont stand-off
True, many obstacles were overcome; decommissioning, a new police service, devolution of justice powers, the noble efforts of community and especially women's groups and Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness managing an unlikely double act. But unionists, despite securing the guarantee of the union until NI's voters decided otherwise and the territorial claim to the North removed from the Irish Constitution, were unable to translate this into a confident politics. As one Irish official observed, such was their innate pessimism that "every concession seems a loss that can never be retrieved", the negativity matched by internal divisions and lack of preparation. Musician and writer Lias Saoudi, who moved to Cookstown in 1998 when he was 12, observed loyalists "condemned to a crumbling narrative that could no longer make sense of itself".
[ The Belfast Agreement, 25 years later: 'Wise up Daddy, things aren't like that any more' ]
Republicans managed the peace process more effectively, clever in their "creative ambiguity" as they revised and adapted amid tactical interruptions and threats, effectively centralising power and discipline, sometimes chillingly, and able to communicate a confidence that overrode the compromises they made. But the increasing assertions about the inevitability of Irish unity belie a vagueness about means, methods and persuasion.
Learn more
Institutionalising two tribes and structuring power sharing accordingly is now seen by many as a weakness of the agreement; an acceptance that NI is a sectarian place. In Colin Graham's words, it is a way of "managing the hatred through a set of methods and structures". The hope was that such contrivance would ultimately lead to what David Trimble told Tony Blair in 1997 he wanted; a NI where "politicians could get on with the issues politicians normally concerned themselves with". Graham heard a protester during flag protests declaring of the union jack, "That flag is my life." This was "preposterous... but in a world in which identity has been the ultimate currency of value in the political system, it makes complete sense... Identity is everything that he is. The Belfast Agreement tells him so."
[ What has Belfast Agreement delivered for the North's youth? ]
Before her murder in 2019, young journalist Lyra McKee was researching the scale of suicide in Northern Ireland. From 1998-2014, 3,709 died by suicide, nearly one-fifth of them under the age of 25. A 2017 study found 39 per cent of people in NI had experienced a traumatic event related to the conflict. The most deprived and violent areas during the Troubles became the places with the highest suicide rates. As McKee wrote, many "were consumed by the memories and loaded their children with them, like bags on a mule... We, the elders believed, would never see or know war the way they had. But we did. We just saw it through their eyes... We did get the peace, or something close to it. All those who'd caused carnage in the decades before got the money... My generation got f***ed over... I don't want a united Ireland or a stronger union. I just want a better life."
Quote from: lurganblue on April 06, 2023, 10:16:04 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 30, 2023, 06:09:47 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 30, 2023, 04:52:54 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 30, 2023, 01:44:28 PM
As we approach the 25th anniversary what do people remember? I went to watch The Agreement on the Lyric last night and it brought back memories of News watching and anticipation. It also gave a great insight into what likely happened behind the scenes that we did not know, in particular the pressure on Trimble in particular.
I'm booked for this myself next week. Looking forward to it.
Well worth it. Although loosely based it does give a sense of what it was like.
Great show, with some quality performances. The portrayal of Tony Blair was hilarious at times.
As you say, it really delved into the struggles that Trimble had to contend with. In contrast I thought it gave quite a simplistic view of Adams' struggles. That being said, it really is a fantastic show. Would highly recommend
I was saying this the other day. It glossed over them really. Still, a brilliant show. Well worth seeing
The sound of a nail being hit squarely on the head:
https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1647214178485125121?t=XbWVXmrM5XHCw52W9XDT_g&s=19 (https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1647214178485125121?t=XbWVXmrM5XHCw52W9XDT_g&s=19)
A home truth that many in the south need to hear on repeat, from a woman who lost a family member on Bloody Sunday.
As a perfect way to demonstrate her point in the clip above, remember that in the 30 year papers, it was revealed that Jack Lynch had been agitating the British Government a year before Bloody Sunday to ban Civil Rights marches, calling them "provocative". The transcript below is from a conversation between Lynch and Prime Minister Heath on the evening of Bloody Sunday:
"Mr Heath: "Well you know it is very difficult to accept a condemnation of Stormont for doing something which you yourself have requested, you have constantly requested. You spoke to me last summer that marches should be banned."
Mr Lynch: "Because I think these marches are provocative."
Mr Heath: "Well then, this was a provocative march today."
F*****g despicable.
DUP and the various loyalist bloggers spitting feathers at CHH for his speech at Queen's today.
Is it finally going to sink in that this bunch of Tories don't give a shite about them
I find it sickening that the likes of pengelly is sitting there. Who voted her in? They're an embarrassment but the whole bloody event loses any shine if they are giving foster a peace award.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 18, 2023, 10:03:28 PM
They're an embarrassment but the whole bloody event loses any shine if they are giving foster a peace award.
Your taking the piss? Seriously?
Fuuny Queen's had a presentation photo of people who contributed positively to the GFA and who's in the photo....but Ian Óg.
Embarrassing by Queen's.
Quote from: marty34 on April 18, 2023, 10:26:12 PM
Fuuny Queen's had a presentation photo of people who contributed positively to the GFA and who's in the photo....but Ian Óg.
Embarrassing by Queen's.
The whole thing is a load of self indulgent bollocks
Quote from: marty34 on April 18, 2023, 10:26:12 PM
Fuuny Queen's had a presentation photo of people who contributed positively to the GFA and who's in the photo....but Ian Óg.
Embarrassing by Queen's.
It must have been an attempt to find balance but in the process you totally undermine yourself.
Arlene walks out of the UUP talks team during the final days of the agreement negotiations and gets a peace award, utter bollox.
Trying to rewrite history they say!
Tbf a lot of the event has been very good by the looks of it - I just find it a bit sickening that there are people who seem to have zero desire for peace sitting there among this audience. Granted you need to try and take people with you etc etc but at no point have this party shown any kind of desire to be taken with anyone and unless they are forced into government they are blatantly not going into it.
Look at the organisation committee behind it with a correlation to the early days of the Casement project would let you know all you need to know about it.
Think Queen's had good intentions with their events but it all seems a bit smug and nauseating at this point. The reality on the ground is they're paying off lowlifes on both sides 25 years after the agreement and haven't addressed the hard issues in that time( Legacy, Education Integration, Loyalist thugs)
Quote from: pbat on April 19, 2023, 10:34:11 AM
Think Queen's had good intentions with their events but it all seems a bit smug and nauseating at this point. The reality on the ground is they're paying off lowlifes on both sides 25 years after the agreement and haven't addressed the hard issues in that time( Legacy, Education Integration, Loyalist thugs)
That's a bit harsh on the clintons ;)
Quote from: NAG1 on April 19, 2023, 09:03:49 AM
Look at the organisation committee behind it with a correlation to the early days of the Casement project would let you know all you need to know about it.
Who are they?
Typical intellectual nonsense. Reality is the DUP never signed up to the GFA and two of their last three leaders left the UUP because of that parties support for the GFA. Foster did about as much for the peace process as Putin did for peace in Ukraine.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 19, 2023, 11:55:37 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on April 19, 2023, 09:03:49 AM
Look at the organisation committee behind it with a correlation to the early days of the Casement project would let you know all you need to know about it.
Who are they?
Maybe he's talking about the lad Feeney?
Quote from: NAG1 on April 19, 2023, 09:03:49 AM
Look at the organisation committee behind it with a correlation to the early days of the Casement project would let you know all you need to know about it.
You have attacked a great international event, a wake up call for us all and more importantly a line in the sand which surely can help inject urgency into those refusing to share power. on the basis of some personal grievance or dislike. Build your own bridge and get over it and read the room when you are at it. Until then I think that your angle is pathetic...
Quote from: rrhf on April 19, 2023, 12:34:25 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on April 19, 2023, 09:03:49 AM
Look at the organisation committee behind it with a correlation to the early days of the Casement project would let you know all you need to know about it.
You have attacked a great international event, a wake up call for us all and more importantly a line in the sand which surely can help inject urgency into those refusing to share power. on the basis of some personal grievance or dislike. Build your own bridge and get over it and read the room when you are at it. Until then I think that your angle is pathetic...
Wow took that one bad, merely pointing out the correlation in two major events.
Previous poster isnt far off the truth. Its turning into an absolute luvvy-fest at this stage.
Serious back-slapping at this stage.
Its an opportunity for the selfie-hungry locals to get their bake snapped with a US politician / diplomat or two.
All a bit sad seeing grown women and men acting like childer hunting for a selfie.
Place is a pantomime
I was there Monday and it parked the cynic in me. It also obvious we need to remind ourselves what has improved and what needs work on. And also the leaders of that time and the journey they were prepared to take.. it became noticeable that all there recognise that political stalemate has meant a lack of prosperity and they need to address this.
Quote from: rrhf on April 19, 2023, 04:23:19 PM
I was there Monday and it parked the cynic in me. It also obvious we need to remind ourselves what has improved and what needs work on. And also the leaders of that time and the journey they were prepared to take.. it became noticeable that all there recognise that political stalemate has meant a lack of prosperity and they need to address this.
Good enough to reflect on it etc. and things in the north are better than pre the GFA in terms of violence.
Main thing for me is the DUP at these events and having a brass neck after them having nothing to do with the GFA.
No self- awareness at all. I mean, Ian Óg in that photo was embarrassing. Just need to look at the comments on Twitter below it.
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/education/leaked-chris-heaton-harris-paper-says-ni-losing-ps700m-a-year-by-failing-to-charge-for-water-prescriptions-domiciliary-care-transport-for-the-over-60s-and-gb-level-university-fees-4109483
I see this was in the press yesterday, a good day to bury bad news.
The day is coming when politicians here are going to have to make some hard calls, up to now all sides have dodged this but with it being evident that Westminster does not give two hoots about this place the days of them picking up the tab are numbered.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 19, 2023, 03:57:02 PM
Previous poster isnt far off the truth. Its turning into an absolute luvvy-fest at this stage.
Serious back-slapping at this stage.
Its an opportunity for the selfie-hungry locals to get their bake snapped with a US politician / diplomat or two.
All a bit sad seeing grown women and men acting like childer hunting for a selfie.
Place is a pantomime
Couldn't have put it better
Quote from: marty34 on April 19, 2023, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: rrhf on April 19, 2023, 04:23:19 PM
I was there Monday and it parked the cynic in me. It also obvious we need to remind ourselves what has improved and what needs work on. And also the leaders of that time and the journey they were prepared to take.. it became noticeable that all there recognise that political stalemate has meant a lack of prosperity and they need to address this.
Good enough to reflect on it etc. and things in the north are better than pre the GFA in terms of violence.
Main thing for me is the DUP at these events and having a brass neck after them having nothing to do with the GFA.
No self- awareness at all. I mean, Ian Óg in that photo was embarrassing. Just need to look at the comments on Twitter below it.
Yeah we have come a long way and tbh it should be recognised. The days of the troubles were dark days and it should be celebrated we are not turning on the news every day listening to news stories about being murdered.
It does annoy me seeing the dup at it though. They would have this place back to dark times in an instant. I don't think it's a lack of self awareness by Paisley junior - he doesn't care.
Saw a tweet from your girl Emma Da Souza, she describes herself as a "peace builder" 😔
Deirdre Heenan and Tina McKenzie etc.
Fuckin dose of shite.
More interested in online profile than any tangible issues that exist.
Brand exposure and personal profile building. Only show in town.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 19, 2023, 08:19:15 PM
Deirdre Heenan and Tina McKenzie etc.
Fuckin dose of shite.
More interested in online profile than any tangible issues that exist.
Brand exposure and personal profile building. Only show in town.
+100
First savings I do, is any party not in govt, opposition as in other countries don't get paid Not save must, but it's a good start.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 19, 2023, 08:19:15 PM
Deirdre Heenan and Tina McKenzie etc.
Fuckin dose of shite.
More interested in online profile than any tangible issues that exist.
Brand exposure and personal profile building. Only show in town.
Correct. Heenan is on every day coming election result day.
Wait to you see! How the heck can a uni lecturer or whatever she does get a gig on the election results day?
Deirdre Heenan is easier on the eye than some of the other doses.
She also provides a reasonable analysis and challenges unionists.
She may do but she is slowly becoming a parody of herself.
Credibility can easily slip for some when they're seen to be in the spotlight so often and in this little island has its fair share of those who are in everything but the crib.
And this is gonna sound so sexist but has anyone else noticed a clear cabal of females across the spectrum who seem to have chummed up, Team America style to take on all comers across politics, media and social media. Strong sisterhood and all that jazz.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 20, 2023, 08:34:47 AM
She may do but she is slowly becoming a parody of herself.
Credibility can easily slip for some when they're seen to be in the spotlight so often and in this little island has its fair share of those who are in everything but the crib.
And this is gonna sound so sexist but has anyone else noticed a clear cabal of females across the spectrum who seem to have chummed up, Team America style to take on all comers across politics, media and social media. Strong sisterhood and all that jazz.
Yep, it does sound so sexist.
Not meant to be. Just an observation.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 20, 2023, 08:34:47 AM
She may do but she is slowly becoming a parody of herself.
Credibility can easily slip for some when they're seen to be in the spotlight so often and in this little island has its fair share of those who are in everything but the crib.
And this is gonna sound so sexist but has anyone else noticed a clear cabal of females across the spectrum who seem to have chummed up, Team America style to take on all comers across politics, media and social media. Strong sisterhood and all that jazz.
I'm not a racist but...... vibes
Ahh youse are right. The mask has slipped. I hate women.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 20, 2023, 08:34:47 AM
She may do but she is slowly becoming a parody of herself.
Credibility can easily slip for some when they're seen to be in the spotlight so often and in this little island has its fair share of those who are in everything but the crib.
And this is gonna sound so sexist but has anyone else noticed a clear cabal of females across the spectrum who seem to have chummed up, Team America style to take on all comers across politics, media and social media. Strong sisterhood and all that jazz.
Can't say I have
Quote from: Orior on April 20, 2023, 06:13:21 AM
Deirdre Heenan is easier on the eye than some of the other doses.
She also provides a reasonable analysis and challenges unionists.
She and Jon Tonge are the go-to people for a lot of journalists who need to write 500 words about the North in 30 minutes.
Quote from: Rois on April 20, 2023, 10:16:14 AM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 20, 2023, 08:34:47 AM
She may do but she is slowly becoming a parody of herself.
Credibility can easily slip for some when they're seen to be in the spotlight so often and in this little island has its fair share of those who are in everything but the crib.
And this is gonna sound so sexist but has anyone else noticed a clear cabal of females across the spectrum who seem to have chummed up, Team America style to take on all comers across politics, media and social media. Strong sisterhood and all that jazz.
Yep, it does sound so sexist.
Some people just feel threatened or inferior when faced with intelligent women...
;)
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
It's like anything. It did in some areas / sectors and didn't in others. It's been good for a lot of people tbh.
Far from perfect obviously but better than what there was before!
We just need to stop judging people all the time man or woman when they get more profile. It must be exhausting to have your head above the parapet in our world. Accept that good and talented people still need to have a profile just to be heard or to make things happen. I'd rather hear about or see the chinks of light through the thoughts or actions of the likes of Deirdre Heenan, Ryan Feeney, Linda Ervine and many others and accept they won't get all right, than dwell too much on the constant negativity that stunts northern politics.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2023, 03:46:37 PM
Far from perfect obviously but better than what there was before!
Exactly!
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2023, 03:46:37 PM
Far from perfect obviously but better than what there was before!
Surely the North can do better though.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/04/20/north-might-have-trouble-spending-bidens-promised-billions/
But better investment requires a higher-skilled workforce, which is even harder to find. Northern Ireland has fewer graduates and more people without qualifications than the rest of the UK and Ireland. This is due to a selective school system that unionists refuse to reform, plus a cap on university places in order to subsidise tuition fees, which unionists and nationalists refuse to reform.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/03/04/unionists-prefer-grim-past-to-future-and-flags-to-good-fortune/
On average, people in Northern Ireland are a lot less healthy than their southern cousins. The average person in the Republic can expect to live a healthy life for almost a full decade longer than people in the North. The figure for the North is 61 years and the corresponding one for the Republic is 69.4 years.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/03/04/unionists-prefer-grim-past-to-future-and-flags-to-good-fortune/
Of this group between 25-34 in the North, 20 per cent have "low levels of education", compared with 7.4 per cent in the Republic. People are more than three times more likely to leave school early in Northern Ireland than in the Republic
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/03/04/unionists-prefer-grim-past-to-future-and-flags-to-good-fortune/
Most recent numbers (2020 data) found that nearly one-third of those aged between 16-64 in Northern Ireland are neither working nor in education and training. Economists have a nice term for it – "economically inactive". Northern Ireland has the highest rate of economic inactivity in any UK region.
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 06:09:01 PM
This is due to a selective school system that unionists refuse to reform,
Sinn Fein may have been the one to get rid of the transfer test but all the Catholic grammar schools were on board with creating their own replacement. Catholics seem just as keen to send their kids to selective grammar schools as Protestants.
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
Quote from: dec on April 20, 2023, 06:28:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 06:09:01 PM
This is due to a selective school system that unionists refuse to reform,
Sinn Fein may have been the one to get rid of the transfer test but all the Catholic grammar schools were on board with creating their own replacement. Catholics seem just as keen to send their kids to selective grammar schools as Protestants.
Grammar schools will look after themselves. Driven by parental choice.
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
City centre was locked down after 7 or 8pm you had to climb 5 meter gates/barriers just to get home
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Exactly. The reference point for the northern economy is the northern economy not the southern economy. The difference is night and day with inward investment, tourism etc etc.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Compared to Wales, Scotland and the South , the North fell behind during the last 25 years. People go out in Scotland but with more money. Poverty levels in the North are worse than elsewhere.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 21, 2023, 08:27:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Exactly. The reference point for the northern economy is the northern economy not the southern economy. The difference is night and day with inward investment, tourism etc etc.
It's night and day alright, but incomes here are by far the lowest in the UK, and Mary McAleese said this week that unemployment in Ardoyne was 70% when the GFA was signed and it's 70% today. If that's anywhere near true then there's still a lot to put right, (and I suppose opens up a can of worms about who is getting off their backside and who isn't!).
Quote from: Sportacus on April 21, 2023, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 21, 2023, 08:27:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Exactly. The reference point for the northern economy is the northern economy not the southern economy. The difference is night and day with inward investment, tourism etc etc.
It's night and day alright, but incomes here are by far the lowest in the UK, and Mary McAleese said this week that unemployment in Ardoyne was 70% when the GFA was signed and it's 70% today. If that's anywhere near true then there's still a lot to put right, (and I suppose opens up a can of worms about who is getting off their backside and who isn't!).
For a lot of these people this is a lifestyle choice. If there were no jobs / opportunities in Belfast why is the M1 and M2 bunged every morning with commuters and work vans.
Typical country crowd "taking our jobs" ::)
City centre full of southerners probably. Locals are just staying in and drinking home brew and eating spuds
Places like ardoyne, short strand, Sandy Rowe etc probably haven't changed much at all tbh.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 21, 2023, 08:09:32 PM
Places like ardoyne, short strand, Sandy Rowe etc probably haven't changed much at all tbh.
They've their own pubs in their gardens now. Holiday twice a year and play golf! Doing a hell of a lot better than what my dad had to contend with
Quote from: Sportacus on April 21, 2023, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 21, 2023, 08:27:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Exactly. The reference point for the northern economy is the northern economy not the southern economy. The difference is night and day with inward investment, tourism etc etc.
It's night and day alright, but incomes here are by far the lowest in the UK, and Mary McAleese said this week that unemployment in Ardoyne was 70% when the GFA was signed and it's 70% today. If that's anywhere near true then there's still a lot to put right, (and I suppose opens up a can of worms about who is getting off their backside and who isn't!).
The problem is deeper than hard working people versus scroungers. There is something wrong at the level of the system.
Quote from: Sportacus on April 21, 2023, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 21, 2023, 08:27:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Exactly. The reference point for the northern economy is the northern economy not the southern economy. The difference is night and day with inward investment, tourism etc etc.
It's night and day alright, but incomes here are by far the lowest in the UK, and Mary McAleese said this week that unemployment in Ardoyne was 70% when the GFA was signed and it's 70% today. If that's anywhere near true then there's still a lot to put right, (and I suppose opens up a can of worms about who is getting off their backside and who isn't!).
Newton Emerson wrote yesterday in the Irish times that NI unemployment is 2.4% in effect full employment. Similarly we constantly hear of the problems employers have trying to find workers. Something seems off about that 70% number somewhere!
With zero hour contracts it's near impossible to truly tell unemployment stats.
The hospitality industry is absolutely crying out for staff here though. Restaurants bars etc can't get staff so there should be less unemployment than there is.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 22, 2023, 07:55:07 AM
With zero hour contracts it's near impossible to truly tell unemployment stats.
The hospitality industry is absolutely crying out for staff here though. Restaurants bars etc can't get staff so there should be less unemployment than there is.
Plenty of potential staff in Ardoyne if they are looking them....
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 22, 2023, 07:55:07 AM
With zero hour contracts it's near impossible to truly tell unemployment stats.
The hospitality industry is absolutely crying out for staff here though. Restaurants bars etc can't get staff so there should be less unemployment than there is.
Lots of places like the restaurants went on 3 day weeks so nearly impossible to hire someone and people left the industry and found other work.
Quote from: Sportacus on April 21, 2023, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 21, 2023, 08:27:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Exactly. The reference point for the northern economy is the northern economy not the southern economy. The difference is night and day with inward investment, tourism etc etc.
It's night and day alright, but incomes here are by far the lowest in the UK, and Mary McAleese said this week that unemployment in Ardoyne was 70% when the GFA was signed and it's 70% today. If that's anywhere near true then there's still a lot to put right, (and I suppose opens up a can of worms about who is getting off their backside and who isn't!).
Dunno if that 70% figure is accurate, but those areas do have a lot of generational wasters. Ppl who haven't the capacity to get up in the morning and go to a job. A fairly basic task for most of us but impossible for them.
In the present employment situation there are probably jobs that you can do in the afternoon.
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2023, 11:59:05 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 21, 2023, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 21, 2023, 08:27:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 21, 2023, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2023, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
The Agreement didn't bring the prosperity that people expected.
How so?
The Southern economy now is 9 times bigger than the 6 county economy.
But how does the northern economy today compare to how it was in the Troubles? How about civic and social life? People go out for evening meals now, I don't remember much of that in the Troubles.
Exactly. The reference point for the northern economy is the northern economy not the southern economy. The difference is night and day with inward investment, tourism etc etc.
It's night and day alright, but incomes here are by far the lowest in the UK, and Mary McAleese said this week that unemployment in Ardoyne was 70% when the GFA was signed and it's 70% today. If that's anywhere near true then there's still a lot to put right, (and I suppose opens up a can of worms about who is getting off their backside and who isn't!).
Dunno if that 70% figure is accurate, but those areas do have a lot of generational wasters. Ppl who haven't the capacity to get up in the morning and go to a job. A fairly basic task for most of us but impossible for them.
Re these type of people you grow up and your Daddy is a useless f@@ker but gets free house and every benefit going and gets 1 and possibly 2 foreign holidays a year it is easy to see how it rolls on from one generation to another. In the media such areas are referred to as 'working class', at times I think the term should be 'work shy' instead.
RHINOS who would freak if a UI was on the cards as they would be terrified of losing their benefits.
Will there be no Social Welfare benefits in the new All Ireland State??
Quote from: Rossfan on April 22, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
Will there be no Social Welfare benefits in the new All Ireland State??
Hopefully not for wasters
NI currently running at a deficit of £700m, meanwhile Republic running at a surplus of €10 Billion. Makes you think
Big cuts coming too. That'll not do the pro union argument much good.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 24, 2023, 11:43:58 AM
NI currently running at a deficit of £700m, meanwhile Republic running at a surplus of €10 Billion. Makes you think
Heard a guy on Nolan show on Friday saying that some of the 10billion surplus was EU monies that had been made in NI, taxed by UK government and sent to EU when they were still paying in. It needs to be given back.