Hi all, young lad is now play soccer at senior age amateur level. How does insurance work or any providers we should be looking at in terms of ever there was a case of a bad injury etc...
Obviously GAA registration, medical is covered under that. I don't believe soccer is.
Anyone shed any light?
Regards
Are you suggesting soccer clubs don't insure their players? Seriously?
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 14, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Are you suggesting soccer clubs don't insure their players? Seriously?
That would be the state of affairs among junior soccer teams in the Newry (Carnbane) League. Some of the more established teams will have some level of club insurance (nothing anywhere close to GAA levels), and some would force players to show private insurance to play for them. But for most, it's a free for all.
How do soccer clubs (Saturday leagues) get support?
Do they have lottos and sponsorship etc?
https://www.insure4sport.co.uk/
£75 for soccer
£158 for Gaelic
Various levels of cover etc etc
Quote from: marty34 on August 14, 2022, 01:33:32 PM
How do soccer clubs (Saturday leagues) get support?
Do they have lottos and sponsorship etc?
Well without insurance, or facility maintenance, to eat up costs, they don't have significant outlays.
One new strip (home or away) per season, £400 - usually sponsored. A bag of balls, maybe £200 a year, often sponsored. League registration fees, about £120 a year, covered from the previous year's subs surplus. Weekly subs of about a fiver a man pays for referees and allows for a small surplus. Sell a scratch card every week to make another £20.
Obviously these costs increase quickly as they head into intermediate football and above. Insurance. Mileage. Floodlit pitches for training. But at a junior level it's altogether quite the lean financial product (which no doubt helps explain why so many new clubs are formed in Newry, and so many fold).
At a higher level - I went to watch Armagh City yesterday, maybe 50 odd people at it (£6 entry), half or more travelled with the away team (Willowbank fc in Irish Cup), Armagh signed 4 or 5 players this Summer. I would say it's a mystery how they're surviving but I assume it's the £25 pm subs paid by the hundreds of underage players (for 7/8 months of the year) keeping the show on the road. I've had a lad there the past few years, insurance never was mentioned, not sure if the monthly subs covered it, presumably it did.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 14, 2022, 02:58:24 PM
At a higher level - I went to watch Armagh City yesterday, maybe 50 odd people at it (£6 entry), half or more travelled with the away team (Willowbank fc in Irish Cup), Armagh signed 4 or 5 players this Summer. I would say it's a mystery how they're surviving but I assume it's the £25 pm subs paid by the hundreds of underage players (for 7/8 months of the year) keeping the show on the road. I've had a lad there the past few years, insurance never was mentioned, not sure if the monthly subs covered it, presumably it did.
The post game analysis /team talk doing the rounds on social media ...manager not a happy man !
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2022, 01:12:15 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 14, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Are you suggesting soccer clubs don't insure their players? Seriously?
That would be the state of affairs among junior soccer teams in the Newry (Carnbane) League. Some of the more established teams will have some level of club insurance (nothing anywhere close to GAA levels), and some would force players to show private insurance to play for them. But for most, it's a free for all.
I don't believe that.
Mr Soccergood man with his blindfold and earplugs.
Quote from: delgany on August 14, 2022, 03:43:04 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 14, 2022, 02:58:24 PM
At a higher level - I went to watch Armagh City yesterday, maybe 50 odd people at it (£6 entry), half or more travelled with the away team (Willowbank fc in Irish Cup), Armagh signed 4 or 5 players this Summer. I would say it's a mystery how they're surviving but I assume it's the £25 pm subs paid by the hundreds of underage players (for 7/8 months of the year) keeping the show on the road. I've had a lad there the past few years, insurance never was mentioned, not sure if the monthly subs covered it, presumably it did.
The post game analysis /team talk doing the rounds on social media ...manager not a happy man !
Only seeing the reaction posts there this afternoon, never even knew there was a WhatsApp doing the rounds! I assume Campbell gave the players both barrels- rightly so.
Exactly, bar the odd sponsor or 2. A lot of soccer clubs are massively helped with the self-funding from the actual players themselves etc
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2022, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 14, 2022, 01:33:32 PM
How do soccer clubs (Saturday leagues) get support?
Do they have lottos and sponsorship etc?
Well without insurance, or facility maintenance, to eat up costs, they don't have significant outlays.
One new strip (home or away) per season, £400 - usually sponsored. A bag of balls, maybe £200 a year, often sponsored. League registration fees, about £120 a year, covered from the previous year's subs surplus. Weekly subs of about a fiver a man pays for referees and allows for a small surplus. Sell a scratch card every week to make another £20.
Obviously these costs increase quickly as they head into intermediate football and above. Insurance. Mileage. Floodlit pitches for training. But at a junior level it's altogether quite the lean financial product (which no doubt helps explain why so many new clubs are formed in Newry, and so many fold).
Ok, thanks.
The club I coach at is the same division as Willowbank. We run a players injury fund where all players contribute and then lads who miss work from an injury can apply to. I don't think we have insurance. In terms of costs we charge all players and have 3 adult teams and 4 youth teams I think. Lots of public funding been secured by the club and it has a very strong community focus.
I know a few teams pay players in our division or the higher divisions and fund it through bars and social clubs as well as sponsors. I'm often surprised how so many teams survive.
We've had a few injuries already as the hot weather has made a lot of pitches hard, weedy and almost unplayable. The season has also started a month ish early to allow for the World Cup.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2022, 06:28:23 PM
Mr Soccergood man with his blindfold and earplugs.
It is absolute nonsense to suggest any sports club at any level operates witthout public liability insurance and injury cover. A blatant lie in fact.
It is a requirement for league affiliation and I know for a fact the FAI insist on proof.
Why suggest otherwise? Nobody believes it. What's the point?
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 14, 2022, 11:21:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2022, 06:28:23 PM
Mr Soccergood man with his blindfold and earplugs.
It is absolute nonsense to suggest any sports club at any level operates witthout public liability insurance and injury cover. A blatant lie in fact.
It is a requirement for league affiliation and I know for a fact the FAI insist on proof.
Why suggest otherwise? Nobody believes it. What's the point?
GAA player injury fund lsnt an insurance policy , its a bit like a deposit account , every club pays a fee per team, €1000 per senior team and €400 per underage team
( premium)and Croke park add in several million.
Its main benefit is for self employed players and serious injuries.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 14, 2022, 11:21:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2022, 06:28:23 PM
Mr Soccergood man with his blindfold and earplugs.
It is absolute nonsense to suggest any sports club at any level operates witthout public liability insurance and injury cover. A blatant lie in fact.
It is a requirement for league affiliation and I know for a fact the FAI insist on proof.
Why suggest otherwise? Nobody believes it. What's the point?
100% not the case for the league Wobbler is referring to or for the F&W league. Both of which are under IFA jurisdiction.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 14, 2022, 11:21:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2022, 06:28:23 PM
Mr Soccergood man with his blindfold and earplugs.
It is absolute nonsense to suggest any sports club at any level operates witthout public liability insurance and injury cover. A blatant lie in fact.
It is a requirement for league affiliation and I know for a fact the FAI insist on proof.
Why suggest otherwise? Nobody believes it. What's the point?
Why do you pertain to know more about soccer in Newry than me? Seriously. Think about this.
Also, why would an organisation that has no facilities, and provides no services, have any earthly need for public liability insurance?
If I make it to training tonight (not feeling well) I will check out the position with insurance. I know we have public liability insurance but we have a social club and I think we only have the players fund after that.
A friend of ours young lad wrecked the knee at the soccer . The club had no insurance, so they had to fork out something like 8 grand for the surgery. Parents assumed , like the GAA , that players were insured, but nope.
If your kid plays soccer , get them insured yourself
I honestly don't know how clubs are allowed to field any sort of team without insurance
Soccer pays for nothing but has the hand out the whole time.
The Govt here had to in effect nationalise the FAI and continues to pour taxpayers money into that useless organisation.
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 15, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
A friend of ours young lad wrecked the knee at the soccer . The club had no insurance, so they had to fork out something like 8 grand for the surgery. Parents assumed , like the GAA , that players were insured, but nope.
If your kid plays soccer , get them insured yourself
I honestly don't know how clubs are allowed to field any sort of team without insurance
I don't agree, unless you're going to ban your children from having kickabouts with friends too.
Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2022, 09:52:28 AM
If I make it to training tonight (not feeling well) I will check out the position with insurance. I know we have public liability insurance but we have a social club and I think we only have the players fund after that.
Is it open all the time David or just before/after games?
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 10:12:57 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 15, 2022, 10:03:48 AM
A friend of ours young lad wrecked the knee at the soccer . The club had no insurance, so they had to fork out something like 8 grand for the surgery. Parents assumed , like the GAA , that players were insured, but nope.
If your kid plays soccer , get them insured yourself
I honestly don't know how clubs are allowed to field any sort of team without insurance
I don't agree, unless you're going to ban your children from having kickabouts with friends too.
Any affiliated IFA football club will be covered in terms of public liability by the IFA's association cover.
In terms of player injuries there's nothing for players unless they take their own out. Maybe some of the fulltime clubs now offer more, but I knew a Linfield coach well back in the 00's and he told me the players had to pay for their own ops and the club would cover the physio/rehab side of things.
If I was still playing GAA, I'd be looking to take my own out as well as the GAA has stripped the cover back to the bare bones and what they offer for certain operations doesn't come close to covering the costs and the clubs are taking the hit there.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 08:33:10 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 14, 2022, 11:21:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2022, 06:28:23 PM
Mr Soccergood man with his blindfold and earplugs.
It is absolute nonsense to suggest any sports club at any level operates witthout public liability insurance and injury cover. A blatant lie in fact.
It is a requirement for league affiliation and I know for a fact the FAI insist on proof.
Why suggest otherwise? Nobody believes it. What's the point?
Why do you pertain to know more about soccer in Newry than me? Seriously. Think about this.
Also, why would an organisation that has no facilities, and provides no services, have any earthly need for public liability insurance?
I think people might be talking at cross purposes here.
All clubs have public liability insurance. The discussion seems to be about an additional fund that Croke Park mamage in tbe GAA which is to give ayers a few quid if they get injured on top of medical costs.
If your soccer club is operating uninsured report them.
Only you're getting confused BB. You're the extrapolating your limited knowledge across an entire island and two jurisdictions of law and sporting administration.
—-
But to answer your last point. Tell me BB. Why would a local soccer club with no facilities, that provides no services to the public, need public liability insurance?
These teams to do not host events. They do not charge admission. They do not maintain the grounds.
If a spectator trips and smashes their head while watching a game, they'll sue the council (who own the pitches, and have a responsibility to maintain)?
If a players trips in the shower and smashes his head, he'll sue the pub that houses the shower.... It's their responsibility to maintain.
What eventuality is it you think they should insuring against?
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 11:26:11 AM
Only you're getting confused BB. You're the extrapolating your limited knowledge across an entire island and two jurisdictions of law and sporting administration.
—-
But to answer your last point. Tell me BB. Why would a local soccer club with no facilities, that provides no services to the public, need public liability insurance?
These teams to do not host events. They do not charge admission. They do not maintain the grounds.
If a spectator trips and smashes their head while watching a game, they'll sue the council (who own the pitches, and have a responsibility to maintain)?
If a players trips in the shower and smashes his head, he'll sue the pub that houses the shower.... It's their responsibility to maintain.
What eventuality is it you think they should insuring against?
Don't provide a service? And it got less logical after that.
Honestly Bb, you've no idea what you're talking about.
Public liability insurance serves a purpose of protecting you from claims by visitors/users/spectators of an event or service your are hosting. It is not insurance for participants.
If you cannot understand this, then please do not try to claim some mystical high ground on "logic".
If you can follow this, then please (for the 3rd time) explain to everyone why a soccer team with no grounds, no facilities, that does not held spectator events, would need public liability insurance.
Councils subbying out the liability
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 10:40:44 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2022, 09:52:28 AM
If I make it to training tonight (not feeling well) I will check out the position with insurance. I know we have public liability insurance but we have a social club and I think we only have the players fund after that.
Is it open all the time David or just before/after games?
I honestly dont know as I live about 25 miles away from the club. I know its open after games for sure and would be open for big matches and other sporting events but it wouldnt be used during training although I suppose its technically open. We dont pay players though so we dont need to make money from it the way some other clubs do
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 12:01:52 PM
Honestly Bb, you've no idea what you're talking about.
Public liability insurance serves a purpose of protecting you from claims by visitors/users/spectators of an event or service your are hosting. It is not insurance for participants.
If you cannot understand this, then please do not try to claim some mystical high ground on "logic".
If you can follow this, then please (for the 3rd time) explain to everyone why a soccer team with no grounds, no facilities, that does not held spectator events, would need public liability insurance.
Do not hold spectator events...?
The argument being put forward by zoomers is that no soccer club owns it's own facilities and no soccer club has insurance. That's mind numbing stupidity.
No that's not my argument.
At no point have I suggested "all" or anything close to "all". I've never once tried to paint all soccer teams as having a minimum or maximum standard of anything. That was you, and in particular regards to insurance.
And as with every time you are proven wrong about soccer on the island, you start deflecting.
It's almost as though you believe nobody can read back one page on a thread.
Spoke with a couple of our committee tonight. We do have insurance that will cover necessary surgery and 1 weeks loss of earnings only. It is not required by our league or for any of the cups we enter but it is required for some other leagues such as the Ballymena and Provincial league.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 08:29:52 PM
No that's not my argument.
At no point have I suggested "all" or anything close to "all". I've never once tried to paint all soccer teams as having a minimum or maximum standard of anything. That was you, and in particular regards to insurance.
And as with every time you are proven wrong about soccer on the island, you start deflecting.
It's almost as though you believe nobody can read back one page on a thread.
Every soccer club has insurance. It's a requirement to enter leagues. That's not deflection, that's the reality.
The slightly interesting question is why people are propagating this obvious bullshit?
If I was to get a signed statement from the Carnbane League that says otherwise, would you then desist?
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 08:37:34 PM
If I was to get a signed statement from the Carnbane League that says otherwise, would you then desist?
Go for it.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 15, 2022, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 08:37:34 PM
If I was to get a signed statement from the Carnbane League that says otherwise, would you then desist?
Go for it.
I hope that means you will desist from Gaaboard until Mayo win the All Ireland or 50 years, whichever is sooner.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 15, 2022, 10:09:49 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 15, 2022, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 08:37:34 PM
If I was to get a signed statement from the Carnbane League that says otherwise, would you then desist?
Go for it.
I hope that means you will desist from Gaaboard until Mayo win the All Ireland or 50 years, whichever is sooner.
If he hasn't produced this document by the weekend will you?
Quote from: David McKeown on August 15, 2022, 08:32:38 PM
Spoke with a couple of our committee tonight. We do have insurance that will cover necessary surgery and 1 weeks loss of earnings only. It is not required by our league or for any of the cups we enter but it is required for some other leagues such as the Ballymena and Provincial league.
Having now looked at the rules for our league it seems we do require insurance and the committee member I spoke to was mistaken.
Don't see anything on the Ballymena & Provincial league site. Think that's the league the lads club plays for.
Quote from: scout on August 16, 2022, 12:02:22 AM
Don't see anything on the Ballymena & Provincial league site. Think that's the league the lads club plays for.
I coached in that league for 4 or 5 years and remember it being mentioned at my last club.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 08:37:34 PM
If I was to get a signed statement from the Carnbane League that says otherwise, would you then desist?
You have had a week. You going to admit you were talking shite now?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 21, 2022, 12:14:05 PM
6.The League Management Committee strongly recommends that before each season commences all clubs should take out appropriate and adequate insurance cover for their members against injuries and accidents which may occur in connection with matches arranged by the League.
Carnbane League Rules 2021-22.
Not sure that does anything to clear it up as you both could read that your own way. Strongly recommends isn't a must but clubs would be foolish to go against a strong recommendation?
If anything it spikes my argument. To clarify, in FAI land that is not a recommendation, it's a regulation. If insurance is not mandatory in IFA land I will gladly retract. But I would have a flabbered gast if all clubs aren't insured regardless