Just the same as the other thread except this is for players which you think have OVER achieved.
I'll start the ball rolling with Paddy McKeever, have never rated him and he's got a bag of medals.
He would be near the top of my list as well can't understand it. Nearly fell off my stool the other day when I saw he was 27. Armagh will have at least one useless half forward for a few years yet.
As I stated on the Meath v Dublin thread, will never understand how Paul Casey gets his game. They may not have won anything but for a footballer of his (lack of) calibre he's done awful well
How Fergal Kelly played in the 2004 All Ireland final for Mayo I'll never know!
I prefer this sort of thread to the under achievers one.
If we are talking about someone with little enough talent who has made themselves into an established inter county player with a pile of medals by maximising their effort, desire and cuteness, then I'd say Francie Bellew.
That's an interesting definition of overachievement AZ!
If that logic is applied to soccer then Roy Keane was a huge over achiever
Anyway enough soccer talk, Kieran McGeeney could probably be added to that criteria, indeed you could just apply it to any hard working player, Dooher etc and countless others, not sure that's fair
I wouldn't include Keane or McGeeney in this sorta vein of thought. They were both great leaders and players.
The thread isn't for just pointing out hard working players or players with a perceived lack of skill, sure most of the defenders in the country are hardly brimming with skill now are they?
We're talking about players who have regularly togged out and their teams done well, whereby they haven't really performed well or anything.
Basically the hangers on who just get by doing nothing good whereas others round them excel.
Or whatever your own criteria is.... Gonna be some arguments that's for sure!
Ah sorry. You mean passengers on winning teams? As in a Djimi Traore type GAA player?
I don't normally like these sort of threads, like the Underachievers one. But if pressed for an example I'd probably say a few of the Clare forwards from 1995-1997.
mark harte-tyrone... how did that man get an all ireland medal.... O thats right!!!
Ray Silke - extremley limited footballer in terms of pure ability. Committed hard worker who captained club and county to All Irelands in the same season
Quote from: stephenite on May 29, 2007, 11:49:18 PM
Ray Silke - extremley limited footballer in terms of pure ability. Committed hard worker who captained club and county to All Irelands in the same season
From a Galway perspective-agreed!
I knew Silke's name would crop up before long. ;D
And now he's graduated to being a pundit.
Eamonn burns
Dara Ó Cinneide, Pete Withnell, Niall Finnegan.
Ray Silke - end of.
Almost every Armagh player from the AI ainning side not from Crossmaglen.
Tommy Carr
Quote from: The Real SlimShady on May 30, 2007, 08:57:34 AM
Almost every Armagh player from the AI ainning side not from Crossmaglen.
You mean players like:
Ronan Clarke: Young player of the year and an All Star
McGeeney: Player of the year and 3 all stars
Marsden: All star
Enda McNulty: All Star
Paul McGrane: All Star
McDonnell: All Stars and Player of the year
Aidan O'Rourke: All Star
That leaves Toal, McKeever, Tierney for the first 15, hardly a bad bunch of players over all!
Aidan O'Rourke?!?!?! Oh please.
McGeeney, a very limited footballer though a real athlete.
i could argue about McNulty also but the others i shall give you.
o cinneide? are you having a laugh? prodigious underage talent- if anything he underachieved.
Quote from: The Real SlimShady on May 30, 2007, 09:23:04 AM
Aidan O'Rourke?!?!?! Oh please.
McGeeney, a very limited footballer though a real athlete.
i could argue about McNulty also but the others i shall give you.
Are you for real Slim, i know you like to go fishing but this is taking the piss. Even I have to take the bait!
McGeeney: Armagh's most solid player for the last 15 or more years.
McNulty: one of the best man-markers in the country, many's a time putting Peter Canavan and Devenney in his pocket.
O'Rourke: if Geezer had not have been there before him, Aidan O'Rourke would have been Armagh's CHB for the last few years.
It's just a pity there are no Antrim players that have won enough silverware to be classed as over-achiever's!!
O'Rourkes a dirty hallion, tis all.
as stated before, average enough players will find it handy playing with class acts all around them.
Gavin Devlin
Denis O'Dwyer
Slim has just confirmed what we all knew, that he has not a clue about football. Anyone who even suggests Mc Geeney is a limited footballer is either stupid on the skills required to make a county CHB or on the wind up.
Mc Geeney, outstanding tackler, requires a high level of skill to do this without fouling, an outstanding reader of the game, an outstanding passer of the ball over 40/50 yards, this skill is one of the skills that is in big decline in the modern game and is able to kick points when the occassion arises.
Quote from: The Real SlimShady on May 30, 2007, 08:57:34 AM
Almost every Armagh player from the AI ainning side not from Crossmaglen.
:D
Slim, tell me you are trying to get a rise, otherwise you know less about football than I thought
didnt it work? though i thought i'd have reeled more in. the more learned Armagh poster can read me like a book unfortunately!
Quote from: The Real SlimShady on May 30, 2007, 08:57:34 AM
Almost every Armagh player from the AI ainning side not from Crossmaglen.
Does that include colm o'neill?
justin mc nulty- bar none
the most limited player i ever saw who won an all-ireland.
Miceal Magill
Gavin Devlin won 2 AI medals without kickin a ball...fist fist fist! he did the sorta job that half the country could have done, held the middle and picked up any slack balls. however he has 2 AI medals so who am i to judge?! :D
Quote from: The Real SlimShady on May 30, 2007, 10:41:29 AM
didnt it work? though i thought i'd have reeled more in. the more learned Armagh poster can read me like a book unfortunately!
damn it, i thought i was getting better at knowing who was on the rise and who was serious!!!
i will get my coat....
QuoteGavin Devlin won 2 AI medals without kickin a ball...fist fist fist!
Matt Gallagher never kicked the ball in the 1992 final either I believe but did a huge job for the whingers.
Dinky McBride
Benny Tierney
Sean Teague(sorry Zigs)
In terms of natural talent, McGeeney is an overachiever. He has dedicated his life to football. As he says himself his brother Pat was a more talented footballer.
This is not a slant on one of the great captains of Gaelic Football, instead this is to his credit.
bandit,
i would agree with you there, with regards to his natural footballing talent, but for Slim to say that the Cross contigent carried the Armagh squad to the All-Ireland title, even if he was fishing, is a load of oul cobblers!!
McGeeney cannot be classed as an overachiever as his level of performance was generally very good. Natural talent has not much to do with it really, its level of performance/effectiveness and certainly by no stretch could McGeeney be deemed to have over achieved.
Uladh, did you know that Mícheal Magill won an All-Star in 1994?
Peter Canavan, maybe he didn't over achieve. He just was in the wrong sport, does swimming pools and diving boards spring to mind (no pun intended) ;) :D :D
Indeed i did BB.
The Down lads aren't concentrating too well today so, Dr. U!
Joe Brolly.
Ross Carr Down
Damian Barton Derry
O cinneide and paddy mckeever?
I played with one and against the other. O cinneide played one of the most amazing one man shows for mary immaculata I have ever seen in 30 years of watching football.
Paddy mc keever has one of the best left feet I have ever seen, and is one of a samll number of forwards that actually beats his man to score regularly
Ross Carr? Complete bullshit!
Football? Hmm... a lot of the Armagh team in '02 were limited enough; only for Kerry fell off the bike in the latter stages... (Don't get me wrong, I was there and was ecstatic that the Orchard county won). Also Dara O'Cinneide, Trevor Giles.
Hurling? A shame that Cork and KK have had no real, concerted opposition in recent years, allowing them to pick up AI's after playing only 1 or 2 tough games - not their fault the opposition was so poor in fairness. Clare made the most of their limited ability and their core of quality players 95 - 97. Individually, Sean O'Hailpin.
Quote from: man in black on May 30, 2007, 02:47:54 PM
Ross Carr Down
Damian Barton Derry
Man In Black...
You have not a clue if you think Ross Carr Under Achieved.. Catch yourself on... Maybe you need to dig into your video archive and replay the point he scored against Derry in Armagh in 1991 to bring the match to a replay, hardly the sign of an over achiever.
Colin Moran
Paul Casey
Quote from: liihb on May 30, 2007, 06:29:40 PM
Colin Moran
Definitely agree at intercounty level, but when you watch club football you can see why successive Dublin managements almost seem to manufacture positions for him.
Someone mentioned Tommy Carr? Was a stalwart during a lot of barren years for Dublin, not sure he overachieved.
Trevor Giles? You are having a giraffe. One of the best foot passers of a ball I've ever had the pleasure to watch, and was a vital cog in a top Meath team, and thats coming from a Westmeath man!
Lads there definitely seems to be a complete lack of clarity as to what constitutes 'over achievement' on this thread, but no matter how you define it, there is no way that Dara O'Cinneide or Trevor Giles could be said to have over achieved.
Niall finnegan was a class sigerson player and gave a one man show v Mayo in Tuam in 97..he equalised v Rossies in tuam 98 and showed unreal balls!! Class act
Quote from: greygoose on May 30, 2007, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: man in black on May 30, 2007, 02:47:54 PM
Ross Carr Down
Damian Barton Derry
Man In Black...
You have not a clue if you think Ross Carr Under Achieved.. Catch yourself on... Maybe you need to dig into your video archive and replay the point he scored against Derry in Armagh in 1991 to bring the match to a replay, hardly the sign of an under achiever.
wrong thread!!
Quote from: Mentalman on May 30, 2007, 07:05:37 PM
Quote from: liihb on May 30, 2007, 06:29:40 PM
Colin Moran
Definitely agree at intercounty level, but when you watch club football you can see why successive Dublin managements almost seem to manufacture positions for him.
Someone mentioned Tommy Carr? Was a stalwart during a lot of barren years for Dublin, not sure he overachieved.
Trevor Giles? You are having a giraffe. One of the best foot passers of a ball I've ever had the pleasure to watch, and was a vital cog in a top Meath team, and thats coming from a Westmeath man!
Giles was a moderate talent whose importance seemed to far outweigh his ability. (Also missed 2 penos in AI finals). BTW, a Westmeath player agrees with me!
QuoteGiles was a moderate talent whose importance seemed to far outweigh his ability. (Also missed 2 penos in AI finals). BTW, a Westmeath player agrees with me!
If this is so then I think a lot of players would wish to have his moderate talent. And a lot of managers would love to have a moderate CHF like Giles.
Quote from: mouview on May 31, 2007, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: Mentalman on May 30, 2007, 07:05:37 PM
Quote from: liihb on May 30, 2007, 06:29:40 PM
Colin Moran
Definitely agree at intercounty level, but when you watch club football you can see why successive Dublin managements almost seem to manufacture positions for him.
Someone mentioned Tommy Carr? Was a stalwart during a lot of barren years for Dublin, not sure he overachieved.
Trevor Giles? You are having a giraffe. One of the best foot passers of a ball I've ever had the pleasure to watch, and was a vital cog in a top Meath team, and thats coming from a Westmeath man!
Giles was a moderate talent whose importance seemed to far outweigh his ability. (Also missed 2 penos in AI finals). BTW, a Westmeath player agrees with me!
Just don't see that myself, they were always better with him than without him, and have definitely missed having a player like him. Apart from his passing ability, and his free taking, he was never the soft touch some players, including some Westmeath players of my acquaintance, thought. Two missed penalties wouldn't make him unique, "big" players do misson big occasion e.g. Charlie Redmond. Then again, it's all about opinions I suppose.
all the o'halpins, mother from fiji, da from monaghan, some hurlers all the same. sean og is an incredible athlete who admits he hasnt th greatest hurling ability, just is more dedicated than most
it was fermanagh actually i have been informed!
Football
Eamon Fitzmaurice:- Just seemed to do enough to hold his place on the team without any outstanding performances. Has a load of AI medals somehow.
Hurling:-
Timmy McCarthy:- Never won any great deal of ball for Cork and not a prolific scoring threat. Lucky to be around when Cork had such an outstanding defence and midfield but only 2 to 3 good forwards to carry them. Consistently mediocre but allegedly 'workrate' got him through. Another hip pocket full of AI medals
Joe O'Connor:- Corner back for Limerick in 1996. I never seen the hurling in him yet he's got a few Munster medals on the mantlepiece
dont really rate timmy mccarthy but he was brilliant last yr against waterford in the all ireland semi. stepped up to the plate when they really needed him
jason sherlock is one of the most overrated players of all-time!
in terms of being an overachiever - i would classify this as a sh1te player on a good county team Mal Mackin continually overachieves in my view and how he comes on as a sub in any game for Armagh is the biggest overachievment of all.