Verstappen wins the championship on the last lap of the season by overtaking Hamilton.
Hamilton completely punked there today!
Fair dues, he took it gracefully. I'd say he's thanking god that he could wear a mask for the victory presentation.
Far from an expert but did Mercedes not make an awful blunder leaving Hamilton on the same tyres for 40+ laps
Far from a Hamilton fan but that ending was a disgrace. Championship decided in the board room. Rules bent or ignore at the whim of the director. Verstappen not even acknowledging Hamilton post race says a lot about him too. It may be entertaining but it's not sport.
Exciting stuff but thank fcuk i dont watch that shizzle
Don't watch it myself but delighted with that finish and result. Apparently there was a strange decision at the start that benefited Hamilton and the decision at the end benefited verstappen
How many years of the board before there was an F1 thread?! Great finish and delighted with the result. Hamilton is an absolute puke. Pit strategy won it for Red Bull.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 12, 2021, 03:24:11 PM
How many years of the board before there was an F1 thread?! Great finish and delighted with the result. Hamilton is an absolute puke. Pit strategy won it for Red Bull.
Hamilton gets serious negative press and it makes no sense. Very similar to the cub that came on the scene in 07 and he was loved. The domination of Mercedes has hurt him because people hate seeing a serial winner. That today was a disgrace. The consistency is gone and that will rightly be settled off the track. Latifi won't be looking to wee Big Toto any time soon...
I don't think you can equate the decision at the start of the race with that at the end. The decision at the start could have gone either way and was a matter for interpretation for the stewards. The one at the end was a breach of a clearly written rule. The breach didn't create fairness it deliberately created spectacle and publicity.
The race director had three options once that safety car was deployed. Finish the race under the car in which case the driver who had lead throughout wins. Two allow all (and the key word is all) lapped cars through which given there were I think 8/9 lapped cars at that stage would have almost certainly meant the end of the race under the safety car by the time the correct racing positions were sorted. Or three let no cars through. There would still have been one lap of racing left and like Hamilton Verstappen would have had to get round 5 drivers he was coming up to lap. He may have still won we will never know.
The race director though chose to ignore the rule that all teams had agreed to and invented option 4. He shifted the goal posts after Horner had whinged at him and he disregarded whatever integrity was left in the sport. The idea that Red Bulls strategy won that race is laughable. The race director decided that race. There was no fairness in his decision.
I see Mercedes have now protested the result and at least one other driver has agreed.
Great championship. I am sure Hamilton would not want to win by appeal and I hope he wins it back next year
Quote from: David McKeown on December 12, 2021, 03:43:43 PM
I don't think you can equate the decision at the start of the race with that at the end. The decision at the start could have gone either way and was a matter for interpretation for the stewards. The one at the end was a breach of a clearly written rule. The breach didn't create fairness it deliberately created spectacle and publicity.
The race director had three options once that safety car was deployed. Finish the race under the car in which case the driver who had lead throughout wins. Two allow all (and the key word is all) lapped cars through which given there were I think 8/9 lapped cars at that stage would have almost certainly meant the end of the race under the safety car by the time the correct racing positions were sorted. Or three let no cars through. There would still have been one lap of racing left and like Hamilton Verstappen would have had to get round 5 drivers he was coming up to lap. He may have still won we will never know.
The race director though chose to ignore the rule that all teams had agreed to and invented option 4. He shifted the goal posts after Horner had whinged at him and he disregarded whatever integrity was left in the sport. The idea that Red Bulls strategy won that race is laughable. The race director decided that race. There was no fairness in his decision.
Thanks to David for making sense of it to me. Although it would be a bad way to win on appeal you can see why they have done so.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 12, 2021, 03:24:11 PM
How many years of the board before there was an F1 thread?! Great finish and delighted with the result. Hamilton is an absolute puke. Pit strategy won it for Red Bull.
Have to say I really like Hamilton. Incredible mentality, that you just don't see in someone that age. His reaction after the race is just sheer class. Hard to imagine anyone else taking like that. There was drivers not even effected who were absolutely furious about it.
Quote from: David McKeown on December 12, 2021, 03:10:31 PM
Far from a Hamilton fan but that ending was a disgrace. Championship decided in the board room. Rules bent or ignore at the whim of the director. Verstappen not even acknowledging Hamilton post race says a lot about him too. It may be entertaining but it's not sport.
Of course be acknowledged him. Stop talking shite.
Here's the rule in question.
If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all teams Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.
"This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed. Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car.
"Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap."
Very hard for the FIA to defend that one I would have thought.
Would allowing all the lapped cars to overtake have made a difference? Surely it would still be a case of Verstappen being right behind Hamilton for the last lap?
Quote from: gallsman on December 12, 2021, 04:19:46 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 12, 2021, 03:10:31 PM
Far from a Hamilton fan but that ending was a disgrace. Championship decided in the board room. Rules bent or ignore at the whim of the director. Verstappen not even acknowledging Hamilton post race says a lot about him too. It may be entertaining but it's not sport.
Of course be acknowledged him. Stop talking shite.
If he did I didn't hear it in his initial post race interview. He thanked his team, celebrated his win, thanked Perez and made a comment about finally getting lucky. That said I've been wrong before and no doubt will again so I will try to track down the interview to see if I missed it.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 12, 2021, 04:33:04 PM
Would allowing all the lapped cars to overtake have made a difference? Surely it would still be a case of Verstappen being right behind Hamilton for the last lap?
Yes as it would have meant last lap would have started under the safety car while the rest of the cars untapped themselves.
Quote from: thebigfella on December 12, 2021, 04:40:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 12, 2021, 04:33:04 PM
Would allowing all the lapped cars to overtake have made a difference? Surely it would still be a case of Verstappen being right behind Hamilton for the last lap?
Yes as it would have meant last lap would have started under the safety car while the rest of the cars untapped themselves.
Yes it would have been the end of the race. Even without allowing the other cars to unlap themselves the race by rule should still have finished under the safety car.
The bigger issue in this may well be that (at least as far as I can see) how you deal with such an egregious error doesn't seem to be set out in the rules. I think that may be why Mercedes have rather speculatively also accused Verstappen of passing under a safety car for which there is a penalty. I imagine this will end up in the courts which is not what anyone wanted.
Mercedes have brought a barrister to the race.
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
There has been races in the past that have been overturned after the race, this is no different if there was a breach, I don't care who wins, as for who deserves it, they were level on points going into the last day. So it's difficult to say who deserved it over the season.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
There has been races in the past that have been overturned after the race, this is no different if there was a breach, I don't care who wins, as for who deserves it, they were level on points going into the last day. So it's difficult to say who deserved it over the season.
Level on points doesn't matter when Max was ahead in the tiebreaker which is race wins
Two eminently dislikeable pricks.
Hard to decide which I'd rather won.
In terms of this, Masi has screwed up. But its not as if they can run off the last two laps, and I'm not sure there is the scope for calling the race 2 laps early.
I'd expect this lies well outside any prescribed regulations for arbitration.
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
If it had have been decided on the Tarmac like it should have then Hamilton would likely have won comfortably. Massi's decision gave Red Bull, a free pit stop, let them close a gap they didn't look like closing otherwise and then removed the obstacle of having to pass 5 other cars like the race leader had already done. If he had even indicated in advance that he was going to ignore the rules then Mercedes may have reacted differently and it may have been a fairer fight at the end but he didn't. This was most certainly not decided on the tarmac.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:39:42 PM
Two eminently dislikeable pricks.
Hard to decide which I'd rather won.
In terms of this, Masi has screwed up. But its not as if they can run off the last two laps, and I'm not sure there is the scope for calling the race 2 laps early.
I'd expect this lies well outside any prescribed regulations for arbitration.
Rubbish. Two great sportsmen at the top of their game.
Quote from: Nanderson on December 12, 2021, 05:35:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
There has been races in the past that have been overturned after the race, this is no different if there was a breach, I don't care who wins, as for who deserves it, they were level on points going into the last day. So it's difficult to say who deserved it over the season.
Level on points doesn't matter when Max was ahead in the tiebreaker which is race wins
I get that, but there has been championship winners with less race wins ( I think) , so who's deserving?
Quote from: Orior on December 12, 2021, 05:50:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:39:42 PM
Two eminently dislikeable pricks.
Hard to decide which I'd rather won.
In terms of this, Masi has screwed up. But its not as if they can run off the last two laps, and I'm not sure there is the scope for calling the race 2 laps early.
I'd expect this lies well outside any prescribed regulations for arbitration.
Rubbish. Two great sportsmen at the top of their game.
Two of the very best I have seen in nearly 40 years of watching F1.
A brilliant season that has people interested who never were before. Great for the sport.
Quote from: Orior on December 12, 2021, 05:50:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:39:42 PM
Two eminently dislikeable pricks.
Rubbish. Two great sportsmen at the top of their game.
Being two great drivers (and they aren't great sportsmen - although arguably very few great drivers are so hard to hold that against them) does not stop them being two dislikeable pricks.
The Netflix show on formula one has allowed the non racing fans a chance to get inside the teams and drivers, which shows their personalities.
I've two friends who have gone formula one crazy off the back of it, they've booked a holiday around a race and will go VIP too!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
There has been races in the past that have been overturned after the race, this is no different if there was a breach, I don't care who wins, as for who deserves it, they were level on points going into the last day. So it's difficult to say who deserved it over the season.
Spot the Referee.
Haven't watched much F1 in the past decade but that was absorbing stuff, as much as I dislike Hamilton I did feel for him after the race, he spoke very graciously while looking a bit shell shocked - but then again years of robotic media training had him primed for it as well.
While the technocrats are having their day atm, wtf was Hamilton doing letting him dive in for the corner when everyone knew it was coming? No pointy elbow training?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:58:23 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 12, 2021, 05:50:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:39:42 PM
Two eminently dislikeable pricks.
Rubbish. Two great sportsmen at the top of their game.
Being two great drivers (and they aren't great sportsmen - although arguably very few great drivers are so hard to hold that against them) does not stop them being two dislikeable pricks.
Who (besides yourself) is your hero?
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2021, 06:06:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
There has been races in the past that have been overturned after the race, this is no different if there was a breach, I don't care who wins, as for who deserves it, they were level on points going into the last day. So it's difficult to say who deserved it over the season.
Spot the Referee.
Haven't watched much F1 in the past decade but that was absorbing stuff, as much as I dislike Hamilton I did feel for him after the race, he spoke very graciously while looking a bit shell shocked - but then again years of robotic media training had him primed for it as well.
While the technocrats are having their day atm, wtf was Hamilton doing letting him dive in for the corner when everyone knew it was coming? No pointy elbow training?
A brand new set of soft tyres vs an old set of hards meant he was never winning a late braking contest.
First protest dismissed unsurprisingly. Second decision due later this evening. Can't see anything changing even if Mercedes win
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 06:24:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2021, 06:06:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
There has been races in the past that have been overturned after the race, this is no different if there was a breach, I don't care who wins, as for who deserves it, they were level on points going into the last day. So it's difficult to say who deserved it over the season.
Spot the Referee.
Haven't watched much F1 in the past decade but that was absorbing stuff, as much as I dislike Hamilton I did feel for him after the race, he spoke very graciously while looking a bit shell shocked - but then again years of robotic media training had him primed for it as well.
While the technocrats are having their day atm, wtf was Hamilton doing letting him dive in for the corner when everyone knew it was coming? No pointy elbow training?
A brand new set of soft tyres vs an old set of hards meant he was never winning a late braking contest.
Yeah, but a bit of knavery still would have won it for Hamilton. 🚫 🚫
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2021, 06:39:06 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 06:24:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2021, 06:06:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
There has been races in the past that have been overturned after the race, this is no different if there was a breach, I don't care who wins, as for who deserves it, they were level on points going into the last day. So it's difficult to say who deserved it over the season.
Spot the Referee.
Haven't watched much F1 in the past decade but that was absorbing stuff, as much as I dislike Hamilton I did feel for him after the race, he spoke very graciously while looking a bit shell shocked - but then again years of robotic media training had him primed for it as well.
While the technocrats are having their day atm, wtf was Hamilton doing letting him dive in for the corner when everyone knew it was coming? No pointy elbow training?
A brand new set of soft tyres vs an old set of hards meant he was never winning a late braking contest.
Yeah, but a bit of knavery still would have won it for Hamilton. 🚫 🚫
How so? If they both had of crashed out Verstappen would have won the Championship so Hamilton had to be very careful.
now this board is full of F1 experts ;D ;D ;D
jesus wept
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
The racing was 58 laps long. The race director eradicated everything Hamilton had done for 57 laps. That's not sport.
Mercedes appeal rejected. Verstappen confirmed world champion.
Sky sports talking about the possibility of going to the court of appeal. At what point do they let it go?
Quote from: gallsman on December 12, 2021, 06:53:03 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
The racing was 58 laps long. The race director eradicated everything Hamilton had done for 57 laps. That's not sport.
Would you have them continue to race around at 200mph whilst they are clearing the track?
No I had them adhere to the rules as all participants had agreed to at the start of the season. The finish would have been anti climatic and unbefitting of the epic season but at least it would have been fair.
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2021, 06:39:06 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 06:24:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2021, 06:06:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Racing should be won on the tarmac, as it was. The last lap was epic. Protesting after is pathetic and hopefully will be fruitless.
Verstappen deserves the Championship over the course of the year.
There has been races in the past that have been overturned after the race, this is no different if there was a breach, I don't care who wins, as for who deserves it, they were level on points going into the last day. So it's difficult to say who deserved it over the season.
Spot the Referee.
Haven't watched much F1 in the past decade but that was absorbing stuff, as much as I dislike Hamilton I did feel for him after the race, he spoke very graciously while looking a bit shell shocked - but then again years of robotic media training had him primed for it as well.
While the technocrats are having their day atm, wtf was Hamilton doing letting him dive in for the corner when everyone knew it was coming? No pointy elbow training?
A brand new set of soft tyres vs an old set of hards meant he was never winning a late braking contest.
Yeah, but a bit of knavery still would have won it for Hamilton. 🚫 🚫
How so? If they both had of crashed out Verstappen would have won the Championship so Hamilton had to be very careful.
By blocking passes. If Verstappen takes Hamilton out through recklessness he gets penalised.
https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/09/drivers-warned-points-deductions-possible-for-unethical-behaviour-in-title-showdown/
Quote from: David McKeown on December 12, 2021, 07:07:18 PM
No I had them adhere to the rules as all participants had agreed to at the start of the season. The finish would have been anti climatic and unbefitting of the epic season but at least it would have been fair.
What rules have been broken?
Having read the judgment it seems the FIA have interpreted the rule "any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car" as meaning some but not all cars at the discretion of the race director.
I foresee this one rumbling on.
Quote from: GJL on December 12, 2021, 07:20:44 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 12, 2021, 07:07:18 PM
No I had them adhere to the rules as all participants had agreed to at the start of the season. The finish would have been anti climatic and unbefitting of the epic season but at least it would have been fair.
What rules have been broken?
The one I quoted above in what looks like two places. Firstly some but not all cars being allowed to unlap themselves and secondly it seems the Safety car goes in on the same lap that the last of the permitted unlappers (for lack of a better term) passes the car, when the rule clearly states it will go in on the following lap.
I am absolutely no expert and have no love for Hamilton but from what I've read it sounds like they've done things differently for this race and if that's the case Mercedes have every right to take it as far as they can.
In a sport like F1 I'm sure the money at stake is massive and the FIA will be hauled over the coals for their inconsistency. This championship is tainted no matter who wins it there will always be an asterisk beside it.
They'll have to rewrite the rule book after this year and I can see it going to CAS.
Quote from: David McKeown on December 12, 2021, 07:21:50 PM
Having read the judgment it seems the FIA have interpreted the rule "any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car" as meaning some but not all cars at the discretion of the race director.
I foresee this one rumbling on.
If the above is the rule then where's the problem? Only the cars that Hamilton lapped passed him and the SC out at the end. Hamilton didn't lap the entire field. And he got lucky with that decision in the first corner and had the rub of the green in Saudi last week also.
Magnificent season and fantastic result. Delighted for Max.
Lucky today, but he would have have won it long ago had Hamilton not taken him out in the British Grand Prix and Bottas took him out in another race too.
Safety cars happen all the time and impact on races. That's part of the drama (often much needed drama!).
It's great to see the usual begrudgers out in force. Suck it up boys!!
Hamilton is clearly a tremendous driver, but prefer Max and Christian Horner to Lewis and Toto Wolff.
To be honest, even if all this is overruled, it's not going to bother me, but those few laps between Latifi crashing and Max passing out Hamilton was 'jump up and down and roar and shout' sporting joy. Can't beat it!
No big lover of Hamilton, but he has been screwed today. This will be going further and you can't blame Mercedes for that.
Quote from: mouview on December 12, 2021, 07:33:47 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 12, 2021, 07:21:50 PM
Having read the judgment it seems the FIA have interpreted the rule "any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car" as meaning some but not all cars at the discretion of the race director.
I foresee this one rumbling on.
If the above is the rule then where's the problem? Only the cars that Hamilton lapped passed him and the SC out at the end. Hamilton didn't lap the entire field. And he got lucky with that decision in the first corner and had the rub of the green in Saudi last week also.
He lapped 3 other cars that were still on the track. You can't have lapped positions 7-11 without also having lapped 12,13 and 14th.
I don't think he got overly lucky with that initial decision. Max forced him off track and had no racing speed when he made that apex because of the manoeuvre to force Hamilton off the track. Regardless though I don't think you can equate the two. One involved the stewards interpretation of a racing incident one required a written rule to be ignored.
As screenexile said above it leaves a sour taste and whomever comes out of it at the end on top will have to live with questions being asked about that ending and not the superb racing seen all season. To that end I feel somewhat sorry for whoever wins.
Mercedes know they wont win this but they want the rules amended for clarification..... which is fair enough but suspect Massi's days are numbered. Wolff and Horner know what they are at ;)
And so it continues as Mercedes lodge notice of intention to appeal the second determination.
Admit it folks. The only reason why you like Max is because his boss's wife is Ginger Spice
The race director gave us what we wanted, a final lap showdown of the ages.
Ok, so he might have taken a lenient interpretation of some of the rules...
But it is a sport where drivers are hostages to fortune, the best driver can fall foul of safety car slowdowns, numpties who make it awkward to lap, numpties taking them out and a ton of rules and regulations.
Hamilton may not be loved by the public but he took his defeat graciously. The stuff he gets flak for, private jet, tax exile, bling are not uncommon amongst other wealthy sports people, yet he gets worse heat for it than others.
Quote from: Orior on December 12, 2021, 11:57:01 PM
Admit it folks. The only reason why you like Max is because his boss's wife is Ginger Spice
+1
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 12, 2021, 11:57:29 PM
The race director gave us what we wanted, a final lap showdown of the ages.
Ok, so he might have taken a lenient interpretation of some of the rules...
But it is a sport where drivers are hostages to fortune, the best driver can fall foul of safety car slowdowns, numpties who make it awkward to lap, numpties taking them out and a ton of rules and regulations.
Hamilton may not be loved by the public but he took his defeat graciously. The stuff he gets flak for, private jet, tax exile, bling are not uncommon amongst other wealthy sports people, yet he gets worse heat for it than others.
If it were ever likely to be a fair final lap with two competitors on close to a level playing field I think there would be a lot less controversy but Mercedes made decisions based on the rules. Left Hamilton out there and left him on old hard compound tyres. It was never going to be a fair fight. So instead of a final lap showdown for the ages he just handed Verstappen the title on a platter and wiped out the great work that Hamilton and Mercedes had done the rest of the race.
Anyway come this time tomorrow I'll likely have forgotten about it and will move on. I don't think that ending though will have done anything other than put me off F1 for the foreseeable
Quote from: Orior on December 12, 2021, 06:23:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:58:23 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 12, 2021, 05:50:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:39:42 PM
Two eminently dislikeable pricks.
Rubbish. Two great sportsmen at the top of their game.
Being two great drivers (and they aren't great sportsmen - although arguably very few great drivers are so hard to hold that against them) does not stop them being two dislikeable pricks.
Who (besides yourself) is your hero?
Irrelevant to the discussion of whether Hamilton or Verstappen are likeable.
I would usually be one for supporting the underdog and I'm no great fan of Hamilton, but Verstappen is a really unlikable character, he would run over his Da without a second thought if he thought it would win him a race, or an extra point.
However that absolute hateful hoor Horner manages to make even him appear benign.
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I would usually be one for supporting the underdog and I'm no great fan of Hamilton, but Verstappen is a really unlikable character, he would run over his Da without a second thought if he thought it would win him a race, or an extra point.
However that absolute hateful hoor Horner manages to make even him appear benign.
He's absolutely no different than the likes of Senna or Schumacher who were at least as ruthless. Called being a winner I guess.
Wouldn't say there was a Friesian milked in Friesland last night!
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
He's his son ffs. Would you ever catch a grip.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 13, 2021, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
He's his son ffs. Would you ever catch a grip.
Lol. Some people really are loosing the run of themselves with this.
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
This has to be piss take.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 13, 2021, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
He's his son ffs. Would you ever catch a grip.
He his mothers son too?
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 11:12:09 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 13, 2021, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
He's his son ffs. Would you ever catch a grip.
He his mothers son too?
It's a big assumption but I'm gonna say yes.
Seems to be pretty close to her too.
He seems to have a weird affinity for his parents.
I actually liked Schumacher, haven't watched F1 since he left.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 13, 2021, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
He's his son ffs. Would you ever catch a grip.
Jos the boss is a grade A asshole. No doubt about it.
But jaysus ye can hardly blame a young fella for hanging around with his da fer feck sake.
Could someone explain why, after the safety car is over, that the cars don't just start off again with the time difference they had before the safety car came on?
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 14, 2021, 12:51:23 AM
Could someone explain why, after the safety car is over, that the cars don't just start off again with the time difference they had before the safety car came on?
Because reasons.
As a matter of interest why are there no women in F1. As it's just about driving with no reversing or parking involved you'd think they should be able to compete ok
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 15, 2021, 06:52:00 PM
As a matter of interest why are there no women in F1. As it's just about driving with no reversing or parking involved you'd think they should be able to compete ok
There is an all women formula racing set up
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 13, 2021, 08:49:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 13, 2021, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
He's his son ffs. Would you ever catch a grip.
Jos the boss is a grade A asshole. No doubt about it.
But jaysus ye can hardly blame a young fella for hanging around with his da fer feck sake.
Hadn't heard this about Jos, why is he a thug/asshole?
I was a big Schumacher fan back in the day but prob switched off F1 about 10 years ago. Started taking an interest again last year when the netflix series came out. When I first started hearing about Verstappen again I had assumed it was the same guy that drove 15 years ago.
Really warmed to Hamilton recently too. The way he dealt with the post race was amazing. I couldn't keep my calm so i don't know how he could remain so humble, credit to the sport.
Quote from: Mario on December 16, 2021, 08:39:46 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 13, 2021, 08:49:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 13, 2021, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Jos Verstappen is a thug and says a lot about Max character that he's still as close to him.
He's his son ffs. Would you ever catch a grip.
Jos the boss is a grade A asshole. No doubt about it.
But jaysus ye can hardly blame a young fella for hanging around with his da fer feck sake.
Hadn't heard this about Jos, why is he a thug/asshole?
I was a big Schumacher fan back in the day but prob switched off F1 about 10 years ago. Started taking an interest again last year when the netflix series came out. When I first started hearing about Verstappen again I had assumed it was the same guy that drove 15 years ago.
Really warmed to Hamilton recently too. The way he dealt with the post race was amazing. I couldn't keep my calm so i don't know how he could remain so humble, credit to the sport.
I'd take all that with a pinch of salt. It easier when you have 7 in the bag, and he got a good taking to before he made any public statement.
A couple of years ago Bottas was ordered to let Hamilton pass late on in a race that Bottas was winning comfortably, as Hamilton was going for the title and Bottas was out of the running. A few races later, when Hamilton had secured the title, he was leading the race with Bottas in 2nd and the favour was expected to be returned. Lewis said no chance. Afterwards he said Bottas would prefer to win a race fair and square, while Bottas was fuming.
Bottas since learned that his only role is to play second fiddle and settled into that. It's going to be very interesting to see how Russell gets on next year, Hamilton does not like it at all when his teammate is competitive
To me the Bottas incident sums up Hamilton better than his recent PR drive. He's very driven, very selfish, very fast, very successful
Mercedes dropping their appeal.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 15, 2021, 06:52:00 PM
As a matter of interest why are there no women in F1. As it's just about driving with no reversing or parking involved you'd think they should be able to compete ok
There is an all women formula racing set up
I suppose their pits have got lots of scatter cushions, matching curtains and a scented candle or two
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 16, 2021, 01:45:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 15, 2021, 06:52:00 PM
As a matter of interest why are there no women in F1. As it's just about driving with no reversing or parking involved you'd think they should be able to compete ok
There is an all women formula racing set up
I suppose their pits have got lots of scatter cushions, matching curtains and a scented candle or two
They'll be shaved for starters ;D
Casual sexism, you gotta love it ::)
Quote from: smort on December 16, 2021, 02:01:40 PM
Casual sexism, you gotta love it ::)
Yeah, cancel me please
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 16, 2021, 01:59:35 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 16, 2021, 01:45:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 15, 2021, 06:52:00 PM
As a matter of interest why are there no women in F1. As it's just about driving with no reversing or parking involved you'd think they should be able to compete ok
There is an all women formula racing set up
I suppose their pits have got lots of scatter cushions, matching curtains and a scented candle or two
They'll be shaved for starters ;D
Very good
Hamilton boycotts the awards ceremony. Not so gracious after all.
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2021, 07:49:45 AM
Hamilton boycotts the awards ceremony. Not so gracious after all.
Wee p***k.
People be consumed with annoyance and hatred.....
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2021, 07:49:45 AM
Hamilton boycotts the awards ceremony. Not so gracious after all.
Hamilton was Punked. He was as graceful on the day when you consider what the circumstances.
You'd hardly expect him to deal with the charade again a couple of days later?
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2021, 07:49:45 AM
Hamilton boycotts the awards ceremony. Not so gracious after all.
To be honest, I'd say not many on here would have went either. Would you? Really?
I certainly wouldn't.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2021, 07:12:09 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2021, 07:49:45 AM
Hamilton boycotts the awards ceremony. Not so gracious after all.
To be honest, I'd say not many on here would have went either. Would you? Really?
I certainly wouldn't.
If you judged a season on one incident, maybe, but it certainly all evened out over the course of the season (as mentioned Hamilton and Bottas took out Verstappen in separate races when Max had a 30+ point lead. Verstappen did take Hamilton out in a later race, but unlike the other incidents neither could continue).
But my point was the fake reaction by Hamilton after the race, pretending to be humble and accepting just for PR. I would not expect him to lose graciously and he didnt lose graciously.
Delighted for Max though. Fully deserved champion over the course of the season and delighted for Lewis to have to suck it up for once.
Quote from: Hound on December 20, 2021, 01:51:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2021, 07:12:09 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2021, 07:49:45 AM
Hamilton boycotts the awards ceremony. Not so gracious after all.
To be honest, I'd say not many on here would have went either. Would you? Really?
I certainly wouldn't.
If you judged a season on one incident, maybe, but it certainly all evened out over the course of the season (as mentioned Hamilton and Bottas took out Verstappen in separate races when Max had a 30+ point lead. Verstappen did take Hamilton out in a later race, but unlike the other incidents neither could continue).
But my point was the fake reaction by Hamilton after the race, pretending to be humble and accepting just for PR. I would not expect him to lose graciously and he didnt lose graciously.
Delighted for Max though. Fully deserved champion over the course of the season and delighted for Lewis to have to suck it up for once.
It was a complete lose lose situation for Hamilton. If he'd come out all guns blazing after the race, him being the sore loser would be the story. He had to come out and be humble etc.
You can be sure he hardly meant a word of it and I'd say he's seething that Mercedes haven't taken it to the top level, but for his own PR I don't think there was anything else he could have done to improve things.
Quote from: Hound on December 20, 2021, 01:51:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2021, 07:12:09 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2021, 07:49:45 AM
Hamilton boycotts the awards ceremony. Not so gracious after all.
To be honest, I'd say not many on here would have went either. Would you? Really?
I certainly wouldn't.
If you judged a season on one incident, maybe, but it certainly all evened out over the course of the season (as mentioned Hamilton and Bottas took out Verstappen in separate races when Max had a 30+ point lead. Verstappen did take Hamilton out in a later race, but unlike the other incidents neither could continue).
But my point was the fake reaction by Hamilton after the race, pretending to be humble and accepting just for PR. I would not expect him to lose graciously and he didnt lose graciously.
Delighted for Max though. Fully deserved champion over the course of the season and delighted for Lewis to have to suck it up for once.
As Ron Dennis says; "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser".
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2021, 07:16:53 PM
Quote from: Hound on December 20, 2021, 01:51:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2021, 07:12:09 AM
Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2021, 07:49:45 AM
Hamilton boycotts the awards ceremony. Not so gracious after all.
To be honest, I'd say not many on here would have went either. Would you? Really?
I certainly wouldn't.
If you judged a season on one incident, maybe, but it certainly all evened out over the course of the season (as mentioned Hamilton and Bottas took out Verstappen in separate races when Max had a 30+ point lead. Verstappen did take Hamilton out in a later race, but unlike the other incidents neither could continue).
But my point was the fake reaction by Hamilton after the race, pretending to be humble and accepting just for PR. I would not expect him to lose graciously and he didnt lose graciously.
Delighted for Max though. Fully deserved champion over the course of the season and delighted for Lewis to have to suck it up for once.
As Ron Dennis says; "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser".
Show me a bad loser and I'll also show you a loser.
I see Masi has been moved sideways within the FIA. Will it be enough to appease Hamiliton