Poll
Question:
Will you take the Vaccine?
Option 1: Yes
Option 2: No
The amount of people I've encountered personally and online who are very sceptical about taking any Coronavirus Vaccine is a bit alarming.
Where do I sign up. I'd be a bit worried about Bill Gates reading my thoughts and the government tracking my movements but I'm not that exciting.
To answer the question, if I needed it - yes.
The best prevention is still to live an active and healthy lifestyle, no matter what. Simple things every day to keep the immune system live and kicking.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 20, 2020, 08:30:43 PM
To answer the question, if I needed it - yes.
The best prevention is still to live an active and healthy lifestyle, no matter what. Simple things every day to keep the immune system live and kicking.
The 'if needed' approach is dangerous to the potential overall efficacy of the Vaccine I'd imagine? Hopefully Radiogaagaa will weigh in, but for the Vaccine to be truly effective I think it will need 70odd% take up ??? So I'm assuming we will all be asked to get immunised irrespective of how we're feeling.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 20, 2020, 08:21:23 PM
Where do I sign up. I'd be a bit worried about Bill Gates reading my thoughts and the government tracking my movements but I'm not that exciting.
I don't do Conspiracy theories but the amount of people who think they're important enough to be conspired against is surprisingly large.
Yes once it's approved by the relevant bodies.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 20, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
Yes once it's approved by the relevant bodies.
The relevant bodies might be Paddy Power & William Hill.
The Governments are definitely not relevant bodies when it comes to Vaccines.
Quote from: Windmill abu on July 20, 2020, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 20, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
Yes once it's approved by the relevant bodies.
The relevant bodies might be Paddy Power & William Hill.
The Governments are definitely not relevant bodies when it comes to Vaccines anything.
Nope.
Well, I'm very interested to know why, if that's a reason.
Bro in law is a consultant in Edinburgh, says they are planning there for a vaccine being rolled out to NHS by October.
Anyone who doesn't take this vaccine is a full time w**kstain and should not be allowed to move about freely in the population. They should be restricted from parks, and stadiums, and restaurants and festivals and sport and school and all those public spaces and places were you could get the virus or more importantly pass the virus on.
Quote from: trailer on July 20, 2020, 10:17:22 PM
Anyone who doesn't take this vaccine is a full time w**kstain and should not be allowed to move about freely in the population. They should be restricted from parks, and stadiums, and restaurants and festivals and sport and school and all those public spaces and places were you could get the virus or more importantly pass the virus on.
^^
I won't be taking one straight away.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2020, 10:29:00 PM
I won't be taking one straight away.
That doesn't surprise me
Would be fearful of side effects given that it is being rushed through at a speed never seen before so corners could be cut. I'd be inclined to avoid it for the time being.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 20, 2020, 08:47:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 20, 2020, 08:30:43 PM
To answer the question, if I needed it - yes.
The best prevention is still to live an active and healthy lifestyle, no matter what. Simple things every day to keep the immune system live and kicking.
The 'if needed' approach is dangerous to the potential overall efficacy of the Vaccine I'd imagine? Hopefully Radiogaagaa will weigh in, but for the Vaccine to be truly effective I think it will need 70odd% take up ??? So I'm assuming we will all be asked to get immunised irrespective of how we're feeling.
70% is the herd immunity figure that's what they say will kill the virus via nowhere to go as a result
I don't imagine a scenario where we are all mass immunised really anyway to be honest. I know the UK has ordered 100 million doses of this Oxford creation so we'll see, I could well be wrong.
For a vaccine to work and provide "herd immunity" there is a responsibility on every one who can do so to take it to protect those who can't and who need that herd immunity.
Theralizumab and Thalidomide cast a long shadow and at a time when the focus is on how much money can be made and the Regulatory Authorities are "streamlining" approvals and circumventing standard processes I would have reservations until the long term safety data was available.
Have got numerous vaccines previously when going travelling but I would be slightly apprehensive about getting a rushed through Covid vaccine.
Don't expect we'll be first on the list however so by the time it becomes widely available here I'll get it.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 20, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 20, 2020, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 20, 2020, 09:25:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 20, 2020, 09:23:24 PM
Nope.
Why?
Do I need a reason?
If you behave in a way which endangers other people, then yes you need an excuse at least.
We endanger people everyday in everyday life. I just won't be getting it. I have my reasons. Doesn't matter why, as I'll be considered a tinfoil hat wearer anyway. So let's just leave it at that.
Quote from: MayoBuck on July 20, 2020, 10:46:29 PM
Have got numerous vaccines previously when going travelling but I would be slightly apprehensive about getting a rushed through Covid vaccine.
Don't expect we'll be first on the list however so by the time it becomes widely available here I'll get it.
They'll be sure to trial it in the 3rd World before we see it.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 20, 2020, 10:46:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 20, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 20, 2020, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 20, 2020, 09:25:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 20, 2020, 09:23:24 PM
Nope.
Why?
Do I need a reason?
If you behave in a way which endangers other people, then yes you need an excuse at least.
We endanger people everyday in everyday life. I just won't be getting it. I have my reasons. Doesn't matter why, as I'll be considered a tinfoil hat wearer anyway. So let's just leave it at that.
Most of us do not endanger people deliberately, we try and avoid doing this.
Quote from: Rois on July 20, 2020, 10:05:41 PM
Bro in law is a consultant in Edinburgh, says they are planning there for a vaccine being rolled out to NHS by October.
Is that the hospital or what the civil servants are saying, toeing the government lime? Be very surprised is is ready by then.
Quote from: gallsman on July 20, 2020, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 20, 2020, 10:05:41 PM
Bro in law is a consultant in Edinburgh, says they are planning there for a vaccine being rolled out to NHS by October.
Is that the hospital or what the civil servants are saying, toeing the government lime? Be very surprised is is ready by then.
Whats the story with travel to Barca? Im due there for a week from mid august. I see there are new lockdown measures in place....whats your advice?? Any advice appreciated!
Quote from: Rois on July 20, 2020, 10:05:41 PM
Bro in law is a consultant in Edinburgh, says they are planning there for a vaccine being rolled out to NHS by October.
What year?
Quote from: Windmill abu on July 20, 2020, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 20, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
Yes once it's approved by the relevant bodies.
The relevant bodies might be Paddy Power & William Hill.
The Governments are definitely not relevant bodies when it comes to Vaccines.
Relevant medical bodies so.
Quote from: LeoMc on July 20, 2020, 10:37:36 PM
For a vaccine to work and provide "herd immunity" there is a responsibility on every one who can do so to take it to protect those who can't and who need that herd immunity.
Theralizumab and Thalidomide cast a long shadow and at a time when the focus is on how much money can be made and the Regulatory Authorities are "streamlining" approvals and circumventing standard processes I would have reservations until the long term safety data was available.
Processes are being streamlined but the manufacturer still has to demonstrate safety and efficacy in a Phase III trial and some of the vaccines are at this point already. I'm not sure what is being circumvented but agree that the Phase III trial will no doubt be much shorter than standard.
You'd think most of us would have overcome our fear of needles when we reached adulthood. Well, actually that's true, most of us have, but some haven't.
Hopefully they don't have to visit the dentist any time soon.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 20, 2020, 08:47:20 PMbut for the Vaccine to be truly effective I think it will need 70odd% take up ???
Yes, no, kinda, sorta. The risk is not uniform across the population, both in terms of COVID and long term ramifications.
As has been pointed out many times by others, those most at risk are 50+ years old.
If they all get vaccinated, say, 35% of the population, added to the ~5% that already have had it and your at ~40% of population having immunity of some degree.
Its then a balancing act, we can say pretty surely that the average child/young adult under the age of 20 is probably more at risk of an unknown long term side-effect of the vaccine than of serious complications with actually contracting COVID (of course there will be exceptions for sickly).
If they vaccinated all down to 25 year olds, you'd have 70% coverage. Those left would be most able to fight it off and also most exposed if a long term problem did exist with the vaccine.
There is no informed call, the testing phase is simply too compressed unfortunately.
I have mixed feelings about this. I have a medical condition that makes me more at risk to a bad dose if I catch covid. So I should be first in the queue to get it. On the other hand I don't want to be a guinea pig for this new vaccine. Let the Brits be the guinea pigs I say.
I live in the states so if it was one from here I honestly dunno..... a U.K one maybe... Something that the Swiss and Germans are taking - sign me right up.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 21, 2020, 05:48:11 AM
I have mixed feelings about this. I have a medical condition that makes me more at risk to a bad dose if I catch covid. So I should be first in the queue to get it. On the other hand I don't want to be a guinea pig for this new vaccine. Let the Brits be the guinea pigs I say.
Heard a virologist on the radio talking about it. He said of course there is a small risk with taking the vaccine but the risk is much smaller than getting a bad dose of COVID-19. On balance he would have no hesitation in getting the vaccine and tbh neither would I. The Oxford vaccine was originally worked on for MERS so they have been working on it for years.
Quote from: lenny on July 21, 2020, 07:22:17 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 21, 2020, 05:48:11 AM
I have mixed feelings about this. I have a medical condition that makes me more at risk to a bad dose if I catch covid. So I should be first in the queue to get it. On the other hand I don't want to be a guinea pig for this new vaccine. Let the Brits be the guinea pigs I say.
Heard a virologist on the radio talking about it. He said of course there is a small risk with taking the vaccine but the risk is much smaller than getting a bad dose of COVID-19. On balance he would have no hesitation in getting the vaccine and tbh neither would I. The Oxford vaccine was originally worked on for MERS so they have been working on it for years.
The delivery mechanism for the Oxford (and some of the other viruses) has been around for years and well tested, so the only new element is the Covid part. This vaccine will be tested on 100,000 people, it would be much discussed if one of those died, but even in that age range a couple of dozen would die if they got Covid and others would have significant problems.
The main problem with the anti vax crowd is that they can freeload on everyone else, so if this vaccine is successfully tested then people need to be required to have it to go to schools or workplaces, play GAA etc, unless they have a clear medical (and not Facebook) basis for not doing so.
I'm all for vaccines and have had them all bar the flu jab, my kids would have all the vaccines also.
The reason why I'm in no rush is that there are millions of people in a worse off condition than me and they need it first, the other reason is its been designed quicker than normal, which in one way is great if you are in the shielding group or have underlying conditions.
So if everyone else has the vaccine then me not having it wont be a concern because they have been vaccinated ;)
I'll get it when its required
It highly unlikely we will all be asked to take the vaccine in one go. The sheer volume of vaccines that will be needed mean that it will be drip fed to those most needy and the likes of me probably wont ever get offered one. However, in a fantasy world where there were 7 billion vaccines available tomorrow and I was asked to take one, then yes I would. To say no is to say I dont give a f**k about anyone else.
The similarly rushed swine flu vaccine didn't work out so well. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy#:~:text=On%209%20February%202017%2C%20the,swine%20flu%20vaccination%20in%202009.
The resources thrown at Covid19 Vaccine are unprecedented, I'm not sure it's comparable to anything just because it's of the same name. I think the world is generally of the opinion that it's worth the risk as well.
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
The similarly rushed swine flu vaccine didn't work out so well. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy#:~:text=On%209%20February%202017%2C%20the,swine%20flu%20vaccination%20in%202009.
Yes, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. One in 55,000 had problems with that virus, in Covid19 teenagers died in China at 100 times that rate (1 in 555) Now Covid death rates will improve, so that the rate might be only 20 times, but 20 times the chance of death as against an illness from the vaccine would be excellent odds and no doubt the vaccine people learned from that experience. By the time younger people get offered a Covid vaccine there will have been a large part of the Earth's population before them to test it.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 21, 2020, 02:54:26 PM
The resources thrown at Covid19 Vaccine are unprecedented, I'm not sure it's comparable to anything just because it's of the same name. I think the world is generally of the opinion that it's worth the risk as well.
There has never been as much data collected about anything, owing to its widespread nature and better data collection.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
The similarly rushed swine flu vaccine didn't work out so well. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy#:~:text=On%209%20February%202017%2C%20the,swine%20flu%20vaccination%20in%202009.
Yes, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. One in 55,000 had problems with that virus, in Covid19 teenagers died in China at 100 times that rate (1 in 555)
Our family GP refused to prescribe pandremix. If a Covid19 vaccine blights the lives of 1 in 55,000 of the billions who will end up using it, the world will be facing another health disaster.
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
The similarly rushed swine flu vaccine didn't work out so well. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy#:~:text=On%209%20February%202017%2C%20the,swine%20flu%20vaccination%20in%202009.
Yes, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. One in 55,000 had problems with that virus, in Covid19 teenagers died in China at 100 times that rate (1 in 555)
Our family GP refused to prescribe pandremix. If a Covid19 vaccine blights the lives of 1 in 55,000 of the billions who will end up using it, the world will be facing another health disaster.
So you prefer if 100 times as many died from Covid19?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
The similarly rushed swine flu vaccine didn't work out so well. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy#:~:text=On%209%20February%202017%2C%20the,swine%20flu%20vaccination%20in%202009.
Yes, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. One in 55,000 had problems with that virus, in Covid19 teenagers died in China at 100 times that rate (1 in 555)
Our family GP refused to prescribe pandremix. If a Covid19 vaccine blights the lives of 1 in 55,000 of the billions who will end up using it, the world will be facing another health disaster.
So you prefer if 100 times as many died from Covid19?
False equivalence. Care to back up your claim that 1 in 555 Chinese teens died from Covid 19?
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 03:58:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
The similarly rushed swine flu vaccine didn't work out so well. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy#:~:text=On%209%20February%202017%2C%20the,swine%20flu%20vaccination%20in%202009.
Yes, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. One in 55,000 had problems with that virus, in Covid19 teenagers died in China at 100 times that rate (1 in 555)
Our family GP refused to prescribe pandremix. If a Covid19 vaccine blights the lives of 1 in 55,000 of the billions who will end up using it, the world will be facing another health disaster.
So you prefer if 100 times as many died from Covid19?
False equivalence. Care to back up your claim that 1 in 555 Chinese teens died from Covid 19?
Actually I am not claiming that, although the stats show that. Clearly there were some additional untested teenagers. But even allowing for that, Covid19 will kill you, the vaccine is not likely to kill you.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:30:59 PM
Actually I am not claiming that, although the stats show that. Clearly there were some additional untested teenagers. But even allowing for that, Covid19 will kill you, the vaccine is not likely to kill you.
The stats show what?
China has a population estimated at 1,439,323,776. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/china-population/#:~:text=China%202020%20population%20is%20estimated,397%20people%20per%20mi2).
If we assume for the moment that circa 10% of those are teenagers, the number of teenagers is almost 144 million.
1/555 of that figure is
almost 160,000 teenagers dead from Covid-19.
A citation for that or a similar figure would be nice.
Here is China's official Covid-19 death toll across all age groups. It may be heavily underestimated.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/
China
Coronavirus Cases:
83,693
Deaths:
4,634
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
The similarly rushed swine flu vaccine didn't work out so well. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy#:~:text=On%209%20February%202017%2C%20the,swine%20flu%20vaccination%20in%202009.
Yes, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. One in 55,000 had problems with that virus, in Covid19 teenagers died in China at 100 times that rate (1 in 555)
Our family GP refused to prescribe pandremix. If a Covid19 vaccine blights the lives of 1 in 55,000 of the billions who will end up using it, the world will be facing another health disaster.
So you prefer if 100 times as many died from Covid19?
1 in55,000 of 7bn people is approx 127k. Are you saying 12.7m will die from COVID?
Quote from: hardstation on July 21, 2020, 05:18:56 PM
Ah don't start multiplying stuff again. Remember the last time we were multiplying by 1000?
;)
Quote from: LeoMc on July 21, 2020, 04:58:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 02:22:35 PM
The similarly rushed swine flu vaccine didn't work out so well. https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy#:~:text=On%209%20February%202017%2C%20the,swine%20flu%20vaccination%20in%202009.
Yes, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. One in 55,000 had problems with that virus, in Covid19 teenagers died in China at 100 times that rate (1 in 555)
Our family GP refused to prescribe pandremix. If a Covid19 vaccine blights the lives of 1 in 55,000 of the billions who will end up using it, the world will be facing another health disaster.
So you prefer if 100 times as many died from Covid19?
1 in55,000 of 7bn people is approx 127k. Are you saying 12.7m will die from COVID?
If Covid19 is allowed run rampant then of course 12.7m will die from it, likely 10 times that number, 616,000 have already died and only a small proportion of people have had it in many places.
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 04:47:30 PM
1/555 of that figure is almost 160,000 teenagers dead from Covid-19.
A citation for that or a similar figure would be nice.
I didn't claim that every teenager in China got Covid, they stopped that by having proper measures.
As for the 1/555 the actual figure is 1/549 if you want to be pedantic.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/
Quote from: Gold on July 20, 2020, 11:28:54 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 20, 2020, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 20, 2020, 10:05:41 PM
Bro in law is a consultant in Edinburgh, says they are planning there for a vaccine being rolled out to NHS by October.
Is that the hospital or what the civil servants are saying, toeing the government lime? Be very surprised is is ready by then.
Whats the story with travel to Barca? Im due there for a week from mid august. I see there are new lockdown measures in place....whats your advice?? Any advice appreciated!
Sorry, only seeing this now. Basically, don't come.
Catalan government has requested everyone stay at home, for at least the next ten days. They've no power to enforce it out make it legally binding without a state of emergency. It's a shit show at the minute. 800 odd new cases yesterday and the city has caught up with Lleida where the worst of the outbreak was initially
Appreciate it
Gutted.
Booked 5 months ago...thought we would be out of the woods by now
If you do end up deciding to come, you should know that masks are legally required in all public places, indoor and outdoor, regardless of ability or perceived ability to social distance. That includes beaches, pools etc. How observed and enforced it is is a different matter altogether, but you're liable for a 100e on the spot fine if stopped. Kids 6 and under are exempt.
After all I've been hearing anecdotally in recent months, not surprised by this at all.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/09/only-half-of-britons-would-definitely-have-covid-19-vaccination?__twitter_impression=true
You won't need the vaccine if you make a few simple lifestyle changes.
Anyone who smokes should not be eligible for a vaccine, but of course things like this will be looked upon as a disgraceful infringement of human rights....the irony.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
You won't need the vaccine if you make a few simple lifestyle changes.
Anyone who smokes should not be eligible for a vaccine, but of course things like this will be looked upon as a disgraceful infringement of human rights....the irony.
Anyone obese should be left off that list also ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
You won't need the vaccine if you make a few simple lifestyle changes.
Anyone who smokes should not be eligible for a vaccine, but of course things like this will be looked upon as a disgraceful infringement of human rights....the irony.
Anyone obese should be left off that list also ;)
Lol.
The thing that interests me here is whether it's just smokers, or all manner of unhealthy people, should be denied a vaccine.
If it's only smokers, then does it include social smokers? And also, how long should someone have gone without a cigarette before they're eligible? How is vaping considered in this algorithm?
Define unhealthy?
Smoking is just simply a choice to poison your body. There can really be no other way to put it. If Covid 19 sweeping through the world systematically wiping out (majority) an older generation that smoked all their lives, by and large, anyone who continues to poison their body and respiratory system can't be in a position to complain.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
You won't need the vaccine if you make a few simple lifestyle changes.
Anyone who smokes should not be eligible for a vaccine, but of course things like this will be looked upon as a disgraceful infringement of human rights....the irony.
Where's the irony?
How are smokers infringing your "human rights"?
You're one of those who whinges ad nauseum about so called "cancel culture", aren't you?
And yet you want to cancel smokers' right to a hypothetical Covid vaccine?
A vaccine you
claim will be unnecessary anyway?
Now
that's irony.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 08:51:05 PM
Smoking is just simply a choice to poison your body.
In that case, so is drinking alcohol and eating pork products
Sure ban them too
And I definitely wouldn't want to be a survivor of suicide attempt via a drugs overdose with people like you around
Or a survivor of any suicide attempt
Smokers are selfish though ;D
What if that smoker is a Neurosurgeon, do they get the vaccine?
Quote from: sid waddell on August 09, 2020, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 08:51:05 PM
Smoking is just simply a choice to poison your body.
In that case, so is drinking alcohol and eating pork products
Sure ban them too
And I definitely wouldn't want to be a survivor of suicide attempt via a drugs overdose with people like you around
Or a survivor of any suicide attempt
Good man Sid, way to miss the point.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 09:08:20 AM
What if that smoker is a Neurosurgeon, do they get the vaccine?
Or a fat smoker?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 09:16:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 09, 2020, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 08:51:05 PM
Smoking is just simply a choice to poison your body.
In that case, so is drinking alcohol and eating pork products
Sure ban them too
And I definitely wouldn't want to be a survivor of suicide attempt via a drugs overdose with people like you around
Or a survivor of any suicide attempt
Good man Sid, way to miss the point.
It's hard to miss your point when you didn't have one in the first place
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 10:23:59 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 09:16:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 09, 2020, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 08:51:05 PM
Smoking is just simply a choice to poison your body.
In that case, so is drinking alcohol and eating pork products
Sure ban them too
And I definitely wouldn't want to be a survivor of suicide attempt via a drugs overdose with people like you around
Or a survivor of any suicide attempt
Good man Sid, way to miss the point.
It's hard to miss your point when you didn't have one in the first place
Keep yourself active, healthy and well. You will be just fine from Covid.
It's not hard to comprehend.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 10:26:12 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 10:23:59 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 09:16:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 09, 2020, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 08:51:05 PM
Smoking is just simply a choice to poison your body.
In that case, so is drinking alcohol and eating pork products
Sure ban them too
And I definitely wouldn't want to be a survivor of suicide attempt via a drugs overdose with people like you around
Or a survivor of any suicide attempt
Good man Sid, way to miss the point.
It's hard to miss your point when you didn't have one in the first place
Keep yourself active, healthy and well. You will be just fine from Covid.
It's not hard to comprehend.
Loads of active, healthy and well people have died or become seriously ill from Covid
Your attempt at a "point" was that you wanted to ban certain people from receiving a vaccine should one become available
With that sort of a view I would assume and certainly hope you don't work in anything to do with healthcare
Your attempt at a "point" was shock jock, "edgy" nonsense
"Loads of".....you get the odd shocking tabloid headline now and then, of course there are exceptions to every rule but worldwide figures suggest that it is not "loads of" healthy people who succumb to this virus.
The fact that it is now fairly obvious that it is people who are active and healthy carry this thing without knowing surely backs that up.
If you are going to continue to stick your head in the sand to the very obvious solution there is not much point continuing further.
To get to the point, this thread is about the vaccine, which may well never come.
So you can make minor or major lifestyle changes, depending on your situation. I'm not going to force feed it any further but it's just simply the best option until if/when a vaccine ever arrives surely from both a mental and physical point of view.
My point on smoking stands - you breathe that crap into your body, you are going to reap what you sow someday. Those words are on the sides of packets for a reason. Covid 19 wil ruthlessly finish off, what the fumes and toxins over whatever years started.
I'd consider myself very fit for a middle age man, I got the 'Flu about 6 or 7 years ago and was completey floored by it, so I'd be extremely concerned about Covid, you're outlook is severely flawed. You just need to be one of the genetically predisposed and you're screwed
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 11:13:55 AM
"Loads of".....you get the odd shocking tabloid headline now and then, of course there are exceptions to every rule but worldwide figures suggest that it is not "loads of" healthy people who succumb to this virus.
The fact that it is now fairly obvious that it is people who are active and healthy carry this thing without knowing surely backs that up.
If you are going to continue to stick your head in the sand to the very obvious solution there is not much point continuing further.
To get to the point, this thread is about the vaccine, which may well never come.
So you can make minor or major lifestyle changes, depending on your situation. I'm not going to force feed it any further but it's just simply the best option until if/when a vaccine ever arrives surely from both a mental and physical point of view.
My point on smoking stands - you breathe that crap into your body, you are going to reap what you sow someday. Those words are on the sides of packets for a reason. Covid 19 wil ruthlessly finish off, what the fumes and toxins over whatever years started.
For somebody who goes on about taboids, it's ironic that you use an "argument" that is straight out the right-wing tabloid playbook
Losing weight is not a solution to a global pandemic
Stopping smoking is not a solution to a global pandemic
Denying fat people and smokers access to a possible future vaccine is not a very sensible way to combat a global pandemic, it's about the worst thing public health authorities could do
Are you reading what you want to read in my posts or what are you seeing? Go slow.....
Losing weight and stopping smoking, obviously, are not the solution to a global pandemic. But they are certainly a better contribution to your personal well being long term. It's really not hard to understand. Once more, again, the vaccine may never come. We must act like the vaccine will never come instead of waiting for the golden ticket. So if everyone starts to improve their own immune system and health....gradually.....It's really simple stuff here.
Obviously this has offended you. If you continue to smoke, especially now in the middle of this pandemic when a respiratory virus is ripping through the weak, you will reap what you sow. I've absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for smokers like this.
If you stop right now, you deserve all the help you can get and rightly so.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 09:53:04 AM
Losing weight and stopping smoking, obviously, are not the solution to a global pandemic.
Right. So stop posting as if they are, which you have been doing.
And stop taking your opinions from Tony Robbins or whatever bizarre American self-help videos you appear to get your opinions from.
And leave your idiotic, eugenicist ideas about denying vaccines to smokers and fat people where those ideas should remain - in your horrible imagination.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 09:53:04 AM
Are you reading what you want to read in my posts or what are you seeing? Go slow.....
Losing weight and stopping smoking, obviously, are not the solution to a global pandemic. But they are certainly a better contribution to your personal well being long term. It's really not hard to understand. Once more, again, the vaccine may never come. We must act like the vaccine will never come instead of waiting for the golden ticket. So if everyone starts to improve their own immune system and health....gradually.....It's really simple stuff here.
Obviously this has offended you. If you continue to smoke, especially now in the middle of this pandemic when a respiratory virus is ripping through the weak, you will reap what you sow. I've absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for smokers like this.
If you stop right now, you deserve all the help you can get and rightly so.
Obviously it would be untenable to deprive smokers and obese of treatment. However getoverthebar makes fair points. Health promotion has advocated evidence based healthy lifestyle messages for decades. Choosing not to follow this advice leaves you vulnerable to health challenges eg Covid/flu etc. He's right in that We have no guarantee that we'll get an effective vaccine any time soon. Therefore those in the vulnerable categories would be advised to urgently address diet/smoking/drinking/inactivity/mental health to give them the best chance if they are exposed to this virus or other infections.
Quote from: 6th sam on August 11, 2020, 10:11:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 09:53:04 AM
Are you reading what you want to read in my posts or what are you seeing? Go slow.....
Losing weight and stopping smoking, obviously, are not the solution to a global pandemic. But they are certainly a better contribution to your personal well being long term. It's really not hard to understand. Once more, again, the vaccine may never come. We must act like the vaccine will never come instead of waiting for the golden ticket. So if everyone starts to improve their own immune system and health....gradually.....It's really simple stuff here.
Obviously this has offended you. If you continue to smoke, especially now in the middle of this pandemic when a respiratory virus is ripping through the weak, you will reap what you sow. I've absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for smokers like this.
If you stop right now, you deserve all the help you can get and rightly so.
Obviously it would be untenable to deprive smokers and obese of treatment. However getoverthebar makes fair points. Health promotion has advocated evidence based healthy lifestyle messages for decades. Choosing not to follow this advice leaves you vulnerable to health challenges eg Covid/flu etc. He's right in that We have no guarantee that we'll get an effective vaccine any time soon. Therefore those in the vulnerable categories would be advised to urgently address diet/smoking/drinking/inactivity/mental health to give them the best chance if they are exposed to this virus or other infections.
So, to make up for his nonsense about why smokers and fat people should be denied a vaccine and his inability to defend such a ludicrous position, he then switched to saying "live a healthy lifestyle" and tried to claim that this was his "point", not the nonsense about why people should be arbitrarily denied a vaccine.
"Live a healthy lifestyle". Such insightful advice, that. I can't believe nobody has thought of such advice before before. If they had, maybe we wouldn't have any disease anywhere and nobody would ever die.
Good man Sid, embarrass yourself a bit more. Making quite the name for yourself on this board with this type of reply....inability to debate, resort to insult.
So who is first up to take the Russian vaccine? Any volunteers? I am sure it is safe.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 03:14:52 PM
Good man Sid, embarrass yourself a bit more. Making quite the name for yourself on this board with this type of reply....inability to debate, resort to insult.
Tell me, how would you like me to debate an obvious idiot such as yourself?
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 01:20:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 03:14:52 PM
Good man Sid, embarrass yourself a bit more. Making quite the name for yourself on this board with this type of reply....inability to debate, resort to insult.
Tell me, how would you like me to debate an obvious idiot such as yourself?
Sid is and anyone who doesn't take it is a w**kstain
The lad clearly has some kind of anger issues. Every post is some kind of insult if you look through his posts.
Either way, ban or school starting back soon will sort that out.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
The lad clearly has some kind of anger issues. Every post is some kind of insult if you look through his posts.
Either way, ban or school starting back soon will sort that out.
You're demanding that any Covid vaccine be denied to smokers and fat people, and you say
I have anger issues?
Jaysus, the lack of self-awareness is stunning.
Never said a single thing about "fat people" by the way. Another one of your hit and hope shots I see.
Several of the Covid vaccines are grown in tobacco and funded by tobacco companies, perhaps these could be given to smokers.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2020, 03:29:48 PM
Never said a single thing about "fat people" by the way. Another one of your hit and hope shots I see.
Apologies, you didn't. So, why do you propose denying smokers the vaccine on the basis that they're voluntarily "poisoning" their body and yet not propose denying a vaccine to others who voluntarily "poison their body" (your words) with unhealthy food and drink?
What about, say, drug users?
The reason I continually bring this up is that you're proposing an idiotic, unworkable, and inhuman policy which you can't defend, and which you know you can't defend. But instead of just admitting that your proposed policy was idiotic sounding off and best left on a barstool (if you can find one), you've dug in and tried to deflect without admitting that your proposed policy is idiotic, because your pride is hurt that the idiocy of your proposal was spotted and engaged with.
I find that fascinating.
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2020, 03:29:48 PM
Never said a single thing about "fat people" by the way. Another one of your hit and hope shots I see.
Apologies, you didn't. So, why do you propose denying smokers the vaccine on the basis that they're voluntarily "poisoning" their body and yet not propose denying a vaccine to others who voluntarily "poison their body" (your words) with unhealthy food and drink?
What about, say, drug users?
The reason I continually bring this up is that you're proposing an idiotic, unworkable, and inhuman policy which you can't defend, and which you know you can't defend. But instead of just admitting that your proposed policy was idiotic sounding off and best left on a barstool (if you can find one), you've dug in and tried to deflect without admitting that your proposed policy is idiotic, because your pride is hurt that the idiocy of your proposal was spotted and engaged with.
I find that fascinating.
Hold on, are trying to make the argument that smoking doesn't poison the body with the inverted commas here or is another attempt to try and side step.
As you have kindly admitted I never made such a remark about "fat people" or those who drink/drink unhealthy/drug users, why do you bring them into the argument? Are you attempted to side step.....again??? I'm willing to have the discussion if you wish, but I did not bring them up, so it's not for me to try and defend words you attempt to attribute to my initial point.
You obviously are a smoker so the notion of this upsets you. I can tell it's hit a nerve. I've no real interest in continuing the back and forth childishness on that basis as you are personally involved now.
Look, the facts are simple - this is a respiratory virus that makes light work of weaknesses in the immune system, smoking, no debate required, ruins the respiratory and immune systems. We know this from many years of cold, hard and unfortunate proven fact.
You are unwilling to accept that people, like me (who do not smoke), will have absolutely no sympathy for those who have poisoned their bodies for years, the warnings are literally on every packet you reach for, it can't be any clearer. If you don't take your own health seriously (or anyone else for that matter via 3rd person inhalation) don't expect too many will be rushing to help you get a vaccine, which in my opinion, you don't deserve.
Now while it's a slow, steady decline as you smoke over so and so years, Covid 19 surely should have something rattling round your head now wondering if you should quit....it's been shown remarkable improvements can be made even after 1 or 2 weeks free from it.
I've really nothing more to say on the matter, reply away with your usual insult and deflection.....The Bar Stool one was a particularly impotent one.
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 12, 2020, 12:07:40 AM
So who is first up to take the Russian vaccine? Any volunteers? I am sure it is safe.
It seems they are using the population as a Phase III clinical trial. It's certainly one way of speeding up testing.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2020, 04:13:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2020, 03:29:48 PM
Never said a single thing about "fat people" by the way. Another one of your hit and hope shots I see.
Apologies, you didn't. So, why do you propose denying smokers the vaccine on the basis that they're voluntarily "poisoning" their body and yet not propose denying a vaccine to others who voluntarily "poison their body" (your words) with unhealthy food and drink?
What about, say, drug users?
The reason I continually bring this up is that you're proposing an idiotic, unworkable, and inhuman policy which you can't defend, and which you know you can't defend. But instead of just admitting that your proposed policy was idiotic sounding off and best left on a barstool (if you can find one), you've dug in and tried to deflect without admitting that your proposed policy is idiotic, because your pride is hurt that the idiocy of your proposal was spotted and engaged with.
I find that fascinating.
Hold on, are trying to make the argument that smoking doesn't poison the body with the inverted commas here or is another attempt to try and side step.
As you have kindly admitted I never made such a remark about "fat people" or those who drink/drink unhealthy/drug users, why do you bring them into the argument? Are you attempted to side step.....again??? I'm willing to have the discussion if you wish, but I did not bring them up, so it's not for me to try and defend words you attempt to attribute to my initial point.
You obviously are a smoker so the notion of this upsets you. I can tell it's hit a nerve. I've no real interest in continuing the back and forth childishness on that basis as you are personally involved now.
Look, the facts are simple - this is a respiratory virus that makes light work of weaknesses in the immune system, smoking, no debate required, ruins the respiratory and immune systems. We know this from many years of cold, hard and unfortunate proven fact.
You are unwilling to accept that people, like me (who do not smoke), will have absolutely no sympathy for those who have poisoned their bodies for years, the warnings are literally on every packet you reach for, it can't be any clearer. If you don't take your own health seriously (or anyone else for that matter via 3rd person inhalation) don't expect too many will be rushing to help you get a vaccine, which in my opinion, you don't deserve.
Now while it's a slow, steady decline as you smoke over so and so years, Covid 19 surely should have something rattling round your head now wondering if you should quit....it's been shown remarkable improvements can be made even after 1 or 2 weeks free from it.
I've really nothing more to say on the matter, reply away with your usual insult and deflection.....The Bar Stool one was a particularly impotent one.
You propose denying a Covid vaccine to smokers.
Smoking is bad for you. Well, like, duh. There are a hell of a lot of things that are bad for you. On that basis, by your logic, you could propose denying a vaccine to almost anybody.
You do realise denying smokers a hypothetical vaccine designed to end a global pandemic would actually be an infringement on human rights, yes? (and you did mention that)
And especially so given that you say smokers are among the most vulnerable, ie. your rationale is "let smokers die because I hate smokers!"
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
Anyone who smokes should not be eligible for a vaccine, but of course things like this will be looked upon as a disgraceful infringement of human rights....the irony.
Just grow up and admit that your proposal to deny a vaccine to smokers is reactionary, barstool nonsense.
Would you give liver transplants to alcoholics, who continue to drink?
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:26:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2020, 04:13:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 12, 2020, 03:29:48 PM
Never said a single thing about "fat people" by the way. Another one of your hit and hope shots I see.
Apologies, you didn't. So, why do you propose denying smokers the vaccine on the basis that they're voluntarily "poisoning" their body and yet not propose denying a vaccine to others who voluntarily "poison their body" (your words) with unhealthy food and drink?
What about, say, drug users?
The reason I continually bring this up is that you're proposing an idiotic, unworkable, and inhuman policy which you can't defend, and which you know you can't defend. But instead of just admitting that your proposed policy was idiotic sounding off and best left on a barstool (if you can find one), you've dug in and tried to deflect without admitting that your proposed policy is idiotic, because your pride is hurt that the idiocy of your proposal was spotted and engaged with.
I find that fascinating.
Hold on, are trying to make the argument that smoking doesn't poison the body with the inverted commas here or is another attempt to try and side step.
As you have kindly admitted I never made such a remark about "fat people" or those who drink/drink unhealthy/drug users, why do you bring them into the argument? Are you attempted to side step.....again??? I'm willing to have the discussion if you wish, but I did not bring them up, so it's not for me to try and defend words you attempt to attribute to my initial point.
You obviously are a smoker so the notion of this upsets you. I can tell it's hit a nerve. I've no real interest in continuing the back and forth childishness on that basis as you are personally involved now.
Look, the facts are simple - this is a respiratory virus that makes light work of weaknesses in the immune system, smoking, no debate required, ruins the respiratory and immune systems. We know this from many years of cold, hard and unfortunate proven fact.
You are unwilling to accept that people, like me (who do not smoke), will have absolutely no sympathy for those who have poisoned their bodies for years, the warnings are literally on every packet you reach for, it can't be any clearer. If you don't take your own health seriously (or anyone else for that matter via 3rd person inhalation) don't expect too many will be rushing to help you get a vaccine, which in my opinion, you don't deserve.
Now while it's a slow, steady decline as you smoke over so and so years, Covid 19 surely should have something rattling round your head now wondering if you should quit....it's been shown remarkable improvements can be made even after 1 or 2 weeks free from it.
I've really nothing more to say on the matter, reply away with your usual insult and deflection.....The Bar Stool one was a particularly impotent one.
You propose denying a Covid vaccine to smokers.
Smoking is bad for you. Well, like, duh. There are a hell of a lot of things that are bad for you. On that basis, by your logic, you could propose denying a vaccine to almost anybody.
You do realise denying smokers a hypothetical vaccine designed to end a global pandemic would actually be an infringement on human rights, yes? (and you did mention that)
And especially so given that you say smokers are among the most vulnerable, ie. your rationale is "let smokers die because I hate smokers!"
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 09, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
Anyone who smokes should not be eligible for a vaccine, but of course things like this will be looked upon as a disgraceful infringement of human rights....the irony.
Just grow up and admit that your proposal to deny a vaccine to smokers is reactionary, barstool nonsense.
[/b]
It's a bit worse than that, Sid.
By denying the vaccine to a large number of people, leaves a significant percentage of the population unprotected and liable to contract the virus. That in turn means that those who have not been vaccinated are at risk of being infected.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 11:07:05 PM
Would you give liver transplants to alcoholics, who continue to drink?
No way.
And those that eat unhealthy food who are over weight and take sick - f**k them.
As for those pesky kids that eat sweets - no dentist for them if they get tooth ache either
Quote from: Taylor on August 13, 2020, 08:00:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 11:07:05 PM
Would you give liver transplants to alcoholics, who continue to drink?
No way.
And those that eat unhealthy food who are over weight and take sick - f**k them.
As for those pesky kids that eat sweets - no dentist for them if they get tooth ache either
Just send them to the school of dentistry... that'll sort them out!!
I wonder will the other thread on the same subject ::) go the same way?