Poll
Question:
Option 1: Casey Peter
votes: 18
Option 2: Duffy Gavin
votes: 1
Option 3: Freeman Joan
votes: 4
Option 4: Gallagher Seán
votes: 1
Option 5: Higgins Michael D
votes: 22
Option 6: Ní Riada Liadh
votes: 15
.
I see Michael D Higgins is 1/50 on with the bookies is he that good or the other candidates so bad?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 22, 2018, 07:27:25 PM
I see Michael D Higgins is 1/50 on with the bookies is he that good or the other candidates so bad?
Hard to see anyone coming in under Mickey D's radar any road
I won't vote and I always vote the standard of candidate is shocking.
Don't anyone is in a rush to give all citizens of the Irish Republic an opportunity to vote on this?
By their very presence on the ballot, this list of gombeen candidates demean the office of President.
Michael D uimhir a h-aon
Freeman 2
Ní Riada 3.
Rest can f off.
Will the winner come out of the closet.
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Quote from: Boycey on October 26, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Clearly Peter Caseys advisers did! People are afraid to say what they think anymore.
Like all communities there is a disenfranchised middle.
The ones who earn, who pay for everything and are entitled to nothing.
This leaves an easy target of people who are the polar opposite of the above.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 26, 2018, 11:00:54 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 26, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Clearly Peter Caseys advisers did! People are afraid to say what they think anymore.
Like all communities there is a disenfranchised middle.
The ones who earn, who pay for everything and are entitled to nothing.
This leaves an easy target of people who are the polar opposite of the above.
True enough. There is a silent cohort who are fed up seeing so much of their income taken in tax and spent on others who are a drain on society and the economy.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 26, 2018, 11:16:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 26, 2018, 11:00:54 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 26, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Clearly Peter Caseys advisers did! People are afraid to say what they think anymore.
Like all communities there is a disenfranchised middle.
The ones who earn, who pay for everything and are entitled to nothing.
This leaves an easy target of people who are the polar opposite of the above.
True enough. There is a silent cohort who are fed up seeing so much of their income taken in tax and spent on others who are a drain on society and the economy.
Like the rich who hide their profits off-shore..
The idea that it's the poor that are the problem is so completely juvenile and insidious.
Quote from: Syferus on October 26, 2018, 11:48:24 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 26, 2018, 11:16:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 26, 2018, 11:00:54 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 26, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Clearly Peter Caseys advisers did! People are afraid to say what they think anymore.
Like all communities there is a disenfranchised middle.
The ones who earn, who pay for everything and are entitled to nothing.
This leaves an easy target of people who are the polar opposite of the above.
True enough. There is a silent cohort who are fed up seeing so much of their income taken in tax and spent on others who are a drain on society and the economy.
Like the rich who hide their profits off-shore..
The idea that it's the poor that are the problem is so completely juvenile and insidious.
Are you talking about individuals or companies?
Either way, at least they are providing employment in Ireland. That in turn contributes to the economy and helps sustain the society we enjoy. That is not to suggest that tax evasion is excusable.
There are some on the lower rungs of society who need help undoubtedly. There are also some who have decided they don't want to contribute in any way because others will do that and they can sit back and reap the benefits - literally.
They lack both personal and civic responsibility. If the rest of us took that attitude, society would crumble.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 26, 2018, 11:16:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 26, 2018, 11:00:54 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 26, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Clearly Peter Caseys advisers did! People are afraid to say what they think anymore.
Like all communities there is a disenfranchised middle.
The ones who earn, who pay for everything and are entitled to nothing.
This leaves an easy target of people who are the polar opposite of the above.
True enough. There is a silent cohort who are fed up seeing so much of their income taken in tax and spent on others who are a drain on society and the economy.
As Trump might say.
True enough, white collar crime costs the country far more but that's fair enough because they pay some tax and employ people.
Of course if travellers had the same opportunities in life maybe they'd do the same but nobody wants to have that conversation. Casey is a disgrace and it's deoressing the vote he received.
Quote from: Hardy on October 26, 2018, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 26, 2018, 11:16:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 26, 2018, 11:00:54 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 26, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Clearly Peter Caseys advisers did! People are afraid to say what they think anymore.
Like all communities there is a disenfranchised middle.
The ones who earn, who pay for everything and are entitled to nothing.
This leaves an easy target of people who are the polar opposite of the above.
True enough. There is a silent cohort who are fed up seeing so much of their income taken in tax and spent on others who are a drain on society and the economy.
As Trump might say.
He probably would. And he's a horrible person so anyone who shares an opinion with him is shouted down by the twitterati and media as a racist/bigot etc
So people are afraid to give their honest opinion in public lest they be branded. They give their opinion at the ballot and cue the outrage from the righteous.
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 12:03:33 AM
True enough, white collar crime costs the country far more but that's fair enough because they pay some tax and employ people.
Of course if travellers had the same opportunities in life maybe they'd do the same but nobody wants to have that conversation. Casey is a disgrace and it's deoressing the vote he received.
Casey was a chancer at best, and would have been a disaster as a president, thank god Michael D won it.
But what opportunities are the travellers denied? They largely deny themselves.
Oldest neo fascist trick in the book - pick on some minority that most people don't like, bash them unmercifully. .....
Like Hitler, like Trump. ....
It is depressing that vile **** got 20% of the ( low turn out) vote.
Are we on the way to following the US and the English/Welsh into neo fascist bash a minority populism?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2018, 12:15:50 AM
Oldest neo fascist trick in the book - pick on some minority that most people don't like, bash them unmercifully. .....
Like Hitler, like Trump. ....
It is depressing that vile **** got 20% of the ( low turn out) vote.
Are we on the way to following the US and the English/Welsh into neo fascist bash a minority populism?
Yes
Would you employ a traveller? If you're a traveller and you're brought up by you traveller parents who have been unemployed your whole life and have no value on education, do you expect your life to be much different?
Of course you can answer that the traveller kid can access as much as any other kid but in reality this isn't the case. Society as a whole needs to help change the status quo but we're a million miles away from it as very few give two shites about the issue.
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 12:22:37 AM
Would you employ a traveller? If you're a traveller and you're brought up by you traveller parents who have been unemployed your whole life and have no value on education, do you expect your life to be much different?
Of course you can answer that the traveller kid can access as much as any other kid but in reality this isn't the case. Society as a whole needs to help change the status quo but we're a million miles away from it as very few give two shites about the issue.
Why group everyone with a single brush? There's a whole lot of travellers who have problems both of their own design and because of society but how could anyone answer "would you employ a traveller?"? It entirely depends on the person, not their background. Anyone who says otherwise is being racist whether they realise it or not.
You misunderstand me (I think). I was replying to Tubbermsns post above.
With Ní Riada only getting 7.4% I wonder do the Shinners regret running a candidate?
or
Has their support tanked?
or
Is Marylou as leader a disaster?
Quote from: Syferus on October 26, 2018, 11:48:24 PM
The idea that it's the poor that are the problem is so completely juvenile and insidious.
Odd as it may seem but syf is 100% on the money here
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2018, 12:15:50 AM
Oldest neo fascist trick in the book - pick on some minority that most people don't like, bash them unmercifully. .....
Like Hitler, like Trump. ....
It is depressing that vile **** got 20% of the ( low turn out) vote.
Are we on the way to following the US and the English/Welsh into neo fascist bash a minority populism?
Completely depressing that he went from 1% to 20% by slagging off a minority. I used to think we were better than the brits with ukip, France with le pen, Germany with whatever, us with trump,etc. We never had a group who only targeted minorities. That won't last much longer I reckon
Quote from: Tubberman on October 27, 2018, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 26, 2018, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 26, 2018, 11:16:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 26, 2018, 11:00:54 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 26, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Clearly Peter Caseys advisers did! People are afraid to say what they think anymore.
Like all communities there is a disenfranchised middle.
The ones who earn, who pay for everything and are entitled to nothing.
This leaves an easy target of people who are the polar opposite of the above.
True enough. There is a silent cohort who are fed up seeing so much of their income taken in tax and spent on others who are a drain on society and the economy.
As Trump might say.
He probably would. And he's a horrible person so anyone who shares an opinion with him is shouted down by the twitterati and media as a racist/bigot etc
So people are afraid to give their honest opinion in public lest they be branded. They give their opinion at the ballot and cue the outrage from the righteous.
You're labouring under the assumption this opinion shouldn't be ridiculed or a reason to brand someone.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism. It really is amazing how the people who express the most repugnant ideas are also the most precious. It's almost as if on some base instinctual level they know they're creating reasons to fit their pre-existing prejudices.
People generally are not good at numbers. Travellers and lesbians and people in the North for example pay less tax overall than Herald readers. And they are different. And this can be emphasised according to the need. But the big life defining f**k ups that hurt the people are never caused by people who are different. There is usually someone from Gonzaga involved.
If there had been 2 travellers in the Cabinet in September 2008 when the Government met the banks there would have been no guarantee. Travellers are very wary of settled people's groupthink.
AIB is very respectable but it blows up every 30 years or so. This is taken for granted. Nothing to see here folks.
Gay Byrne and Des Cahill both lost their pensions in 2008. Nothing to do with people who are different.
The existence of crooks in the cabinet is no reason to tolerate other people sponging off the system. It is like saying that because there are murderers that you needn't worry about burglaries. Both are wrong.
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 02:16:18 AM
People generally are not good at numbers. Travellers and lesbians and people in the North for example pay less tax overall than Herald readers. And they are different. And this can be emphasised according to the need. But the big life defining f**k ups that hurt the people are never caused by people who are different. There is usually someone from Gonzaga involved.
If there had been 2 travellers in the Cabinet in September 2008 when the Government met the banks there would have been no guarantee. Travellers are very wary of settled people's groupthink.
AIB is very respectable but it blows up every 30 years or so. This is taken for granted. Nothing to see here folks.
Gay Byrne and Des Cahill both lost their pensions in 2008. Nothing to do with people who are different.
Even when you're right you manage to say it in the stupidest way possible.
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 02:04:50 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 27, 2018, 12:11:23 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 26, 2018, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on October 26, 2018, 11:16:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 26, 2018, 11:00:54 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 26, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
So slagging off travellers takes you from 1% to 20%, who knew?
Clearly Peter Caseys advisers did! People are afraid to say what they think anymore.
Like all communities there is a disenfranchised middle.
The ones who earn, who pay for everything and are entitled to nothing.
This leaves an easy target of people who are the polar opposite of the above.
True enough. There is a silent cohort who are fed up seeing so much of their income taken in tax and spent on others who are a drain on society and the economy.
As Trump might say.
He probably would. And he's a horrible person so anyone who shares an opinion with him is shouted down by the twitterati and media as a racist/bigot etc
So people are afraid to give their honest opinion in public lest they be branded. They give their opinion at the ballot and cue the outrage from the righteous.
You're labouring under the assumption this opinion shouldn't be ridiculed or a reason to brand someone.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism. It really is amazing how the people who express the most repugnant ideas are also the most precious. It's almost as if on some base instinctual level they know they're creating reasons to fit their pre-existing prejudices.
i think it would be a much more beneficial exercise to ask why 20% of those who voted for Casey did so.
For many, it may have been about tbe welfare system in general, and not to do with the traveller community specifically.
But for many, it probably was about travellers. Again, why is that? It's quick and easy to say they're racist. But why does that seemingly apply only to travellers? There doesnt seem to be such a view against the Polish community for example.
So lets be honest and admit the problems that exist between the 'settled' and traveller communities and not just brand people racist when these problems are shown to exercise many people.
I dont really believe that Casey or alot of his voters are racist. Like i dont believe in the sterotype on travellers. However the housing issue in tipp and looking for free land did them no favours. Especially when others are on housing lists living in hotel rooms or struggling to pay a mortgage. Why do ww pay higher mortgage interest rates than or european neighbours? This is a problem created by the lack of ability from the govt. They are the ones who need a shake up from the ballot box. Put the only problem there is the crowd that would benefit are those that brought the xountry to its knees.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2018, 02:20:26 AM
The existence of crooks in the cabinet is no reason to tolerate other people sponging off the system. It is like saying that because there are murderers that you needn't worry about burglaries. Both are wrong.
If you talk to sociologists the problem is social exclusion . Niamh Hourigan wrote a book about Moyross called Understanding Limerick. Putting people on social welfare is not good enough anywhere. Social exclusion is insidious. Big issue in NI as well.
Disadvantaged families come in 2 flavours. Advantaged of the disadvantaged and disadvantaged squared. The latter group provides content for the Indo. The social problems they generate can be inter generational.
The Irish State is very poor at managing this risk.
The Public Sector is a long way from excellence and a big part of the problem. The crisis exposed an awful lot of incompetence. How are projects managed. How is spending monitored. There is an awful lot of shite.
In 2011 or so the teachers voted to cut salaries for new teachers instead of their own. Everyone for themselves. The legal system is rotten . And then you have casino financing of government spending.
If you wanted to fix the social welfare issue the public services and legal system would need to be rebooted and disadvantaged squared would need to be addressed properly and become a core focus of public policy. It is a lot less glamorous than signing guarantees or dying for Ireland.
"to get the government they have now, I wouldn't have lost a night's sleep." Dan Breen
Shocking result for the Shinners
And the populism agenda wins again. Casey has this forum debating the behaviour of travellers and welfare abusers as if that was the big problem facing the nation. As seafoid says, people are bad at numbers. We don't get the difference between first order and second order effects. We don't understand orders of magnitude.
That's what allows the productivity/wages ratio to multiply obscenely in the space of a generation – we watch them robbing us because we listen and believe them when they tell us that the big problem is travellers and a few little people fiddling the dole. That's what gives us Trump, Brexit, Orban, Le Pen. And Peter Casey FFS!
Quote from: snoopdog on October 27, 2018, 07:21:04 AM
I dont really believe that Casey or alot of his voters are racist. Like i dont believe in the sterotype on travellers. However the housing issue in tipp and looking for free land did them no favours. Especially when others are on housing lists living in hotel rooms or struggling to pay a mortgage. Why do ww pay higher mortgage interest rates than or european neighbours? This is a problem created by the lack of ability from the govt. They are the ones who need a shake up from the ballot box. Put the only problem there is the crowd that would benefit are those that brought the xountry to its knees.
Mortgage rates are higher so banks can rebuild their balance sheets after the crisis that they caused. Property prices are high to suit the banks as well. Otherwise they would be in trouble.
High property prices lead to high rents. This is linked to homelessness. Vulture funds have recently been sold non performing mortgages. It is a big mess.
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2018, 11:04:09 AM
And the populism agenda wins again. Casey has this forum debating the behaviour of travellers and welfare abusers as if that was the big problem facing the nation. As seafoid says, people are bad at numbers. We don't get the difference between first order and second order effects. We don't understand orders of magnitude.
That's what allows the productivity/wages ratio to multiply obscenely in the space of a generation – we watch them robbing us because we listen and believe them when they tell us that the big problem is travellers and a few little people fiddling the dole. That's what gives us Trump, Brexit, Orban, Le Pen. And Peter Casey FFS!
I don't disagree at all but I think it's important to answer...
Who are 'they'? Is it the politicians? If so, at what level of politics do you move from being a 'we' to a 'they'.
Is it the banks? How far up the scale do you have to be in a bank to become a 'they'?
Is it big business in general? If so, what does your turnover have to be before you stop being a 'we'?
Is it the wealthy people? How much do you have to be worth to become a 'they'?
The reason that people don't understand orders of magnitude is because it's not tangible to them. It's the same here. People don't know who
they are. Who do I blame for this? How do I stop them doing it again? How can these questions be answered when nobody can tell them who 'they' are. Show me some proof and give me some names.
Now, those travellers in that new transit who stole a chainsaw from Paddy's shed and started a fight in the pub... I know who they are and I don't like them. And this guy here says he doesn't like them either. So I'm going to vote for him.
Quote from: Franko on October 27, 2018, 11:45:38 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2018, 11:04:09 AM
And the populism agenda wins again. Casey has this forum debating the behaviour of travellers and welfare abusers as if that was the big problem facing the nation. As seafoid says, people are bad at numbers. We don't get the difference between first order and second order effects. We don't understand orders of magnitude.
That's what allows the productivity/wages ratio to multiply obscenely in the space of a generation – we watch them robbing us because we listen and believe them when they tell us that the big problem is travellers and a few little people fiddling the dole. That's what gives us Trump, Brexit, Orban, Le Pen. And Peter Casey FFS!
I don't disagree at all but I think it's important to answer... Who are 'they'?
Is it the politicians? If so, at what level of politics do you move from being a 'we' to a 'they'.
Is it the banks? How far up the scale do you have to be in a bank to become a 'they'?
Is it big business in general? If so, what does your turnover have to be before you stop being a 'we'?
Is it the wealthy people? How much do you have to be worth to become a 'they'?
The reason that people don't understand orders of magnitude is because it's not tangible to them. It's the same here. People don't know who they are. Who do I blame for this? How do I stop them doing it again? How can these questions be answered when nobody can tell them who 'they' are. Show me some proof and give me some names.
Now, those travellers in that new transit who stole a chainsaw from Paddy's shed and started a fight in the pub... I know who they are and I don't like them. And this guy here says he doesn't like them either. So I'm going to vote for him.
Well put
Yes well put by franko. I voted for Casey, on the basis the Taoiseach told him to quit and people not to vote for him. Wasn't going to give the dragons anything. Is Leo one of 'those'? It was an anti-establishment vote. Are the establishment 'they'? If that's not an anti-establishment vote, then what is?
Quote from: stephenite on October 27, 2018, 10:45:37 AM
Shocking result for the Shinners
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election/fionnn-sheahan-marylou-the-biggest-loser-as-contenders-fail-to-ignite-37463983.html
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 27, 2018, 12:12:34 PM
Yes well put by franko. I voted for Casey, on the basis the Taoiseach told him to quit and people not to vote for him. Wasn't going to give the dragons anything. Is Leo one of 'those'? It was an anti-establishment vote. Are the establishment 'they'? If that's not an anti-establishment vote, then what is?
Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements because you're annoyed and ignoring the implications is the fast way to ending up like all the rest of the late capitalism western democracies that are going through a vaguely or overtly xenophobic mid-life crisis.
I really cannot fathom how you witnessed a wave of far right fascism in the US, UK and Europe and still figured it was defendable to vote for Peter fûcking Casey. You're the problem because you're exactly the sort of person who should know better.
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:24:46 PM
Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements
Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2018, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:24:46 PM
Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements
Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?
Not surprising to see you here.
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2018, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:24:46 PM
Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements
Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?
Not surprising to see you here.
With quick responses like that you should run for President yourself.
Maybe, you'd answer my question though.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2018, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2018, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:24:46 PM
Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements
Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?
Not surprising to see you here.
With quick responses like that you should run for President yourself.
Maybe, you'd answer my question though.
No.
Shinners very quiet today :o
Pearse Doherty smiling quietly I suspect.
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:57:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2018, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2018, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 27, 2018, 12:24:46 PM
Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements
Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?
Not surprising to see you here.
With quick responses like that you should run for President yourself.
Maybe, you'd answer my question though.
No.
Stating the obvious isn't racism
Gallagher did very badly considering the last time. SF won't be too disappointed because it was a weird campaign with 4 non political candidates.
20% is a big protest vote.Maybe some people are not happy with the economy. Lots of material for SF
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-economy-lags-badly-behind-republics-37450685.html
« The Nevin Economic Research Institute said a deep gap exists between the strong performance of foreign firms operating in the Republic and its domestic economy. «
Ireland is today full of a load of self righteous wankers accusing 20% of the electorate of being rascist. Thats a very very lazy analysis in my opinion. Of course we cannot ask all those people why they voted casey and I am sure if we did we would find that some are prejudical against travellers. In the end I spoilt my vote as I never came across such a terrible selection to vote for. However I did consider Casey and I will tell you why
1 - He spoke honestly. For example, when all candidates on the debate on RTE were asked would they be happy with a haltin site built beside their homes they all said no problem. We all know that is a lie and we all know the vast majority of people would not be happy with that. Casey was naive in his honesty in many ways.
2- While he did say some awful things about travelers which were generalizations and totally unacceptable he did say some truths too. He correctly said that it was a disgrace t hat those familes in Tipp didnt move into their new homes as they wanted stables and land due to their "culture" that is abolute bollocks and an insult to the tax payer. Thats not a generalisation against all travelers, just those travelers. He questioned whether they should be considered an ethnic group - its a fair point, not one I agree with but its a fair question. Those two points resonated with a lot of people in the middle who are taxed at 50% and the rest barely covers their mortgage and they struggle to send their kids to college. What did the other candidates say about Tipp - Nothing, too cowardly to even address it.
I didnt vote for casey as away from these statements
1- He said some nasty things in general about travelers and social welfare - you cannot tar everyone with same brush
2- He clearly was winging it when any questions came up about what the president actually does, he didnt have a clue. RTE and TV3 should have pushed him more on this to show that side of him, they let him off the hook too easy.
On the other candidates
Higgins never answered any question about his lavish lifestyle and expenses. He avoided everyone and resorted to boring us to death with long meandering waffle.
Ni Riadh fucked up royally when she said she would wear a poppy, this halved her own SF vote and did not gain her one vote in return. A really stupid thing to say.
The rest just were nothing candidates
Where now for SF? With all the election machinery behind their candidate this was a very disappointing result. As I said LNR was not a credible candidate, in what was, lets face it, a farce of an election. 3 joke candidates and she's had a very disappointing result including coming 3rd in Donegal and her own constituency. This was Mary Lou's first big test as leader and she has failed miserably. Running a candidate in the 1st place was risky. It has backfired spectacularly. They couldn't even get any of the protest vote. LNR may find it difficult to hold her own MEP seat next time round. A crushing election for them.
I think to dismiss Casey's vote a purely an anti traveller vote or protest vote is wrong. 21% is a big vote, especially without any political party behind you. Even SF couldn't muster that.
In the end there was only 2 candidates in the race Casey and Higgins with the other 4 candidates running novelty, joke campaigns.
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2018, 02:32:12 PM
Gallagher did very badly considering the last time. SF won't be too disappointed because it was a weird campaign with 4 non political candidates.
20% is a big protest vote.Maybe some people are not happy with the economy. Lots of material for SF
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-economy-lags-badly-behind-republics-37450685.html
« The Nevin Economic Research Institute said a deep gap exists between the strong performance of foreign firms operating in the Republic and its domestic economy. «
Really ?
Quote from: trailer on October 27, 2018, 04:54:38 PM
Where now for SF? With all the election machinery behind their candidate this was a very disappointing result. As I said LNR was not a credible candidate, in what was, lets face it, a farce of an election. 3 joke candidates and she's had a very disappointing result including coming 3rd in Donegal and her own constituency. This was Mary Lou's first big test as leader and she has failed miserably. Running a candidate in the 1st place was risky. It has backfired spectacularly. They couldn't even get any of the protest vote. LNR may find it difficult to hold her own MEP seat next time round. A crushing election for them.
I think to dismiss Casey's vote a purely an anti traveller vote or protest vote is wrong. 21% is a big vote, especially without any political party behind you. Even SF couldn't muster that.
In the end there was only 2 candidates in the race Casey and Higgins with the other 4 candidates running novelty, joke campaigns.
How do you marry that up with the fact that he had 1% pre-traveller speech?
Quote from: Boycey on October 27, 2018, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 27, 2018, 04:54:38 PM
Where now for SF? With all the election machinery behind their candidate this was a very disappointing result. As I said LNR was not a credible candidate, in what was, lets face it, a farce of an election. 3 joke candidates and she's had a very disappointing result including coming 3rd in Donegal and her own constituency. This was Mary Lou's first big test as leader and she has failed miserably. Running a candidate in the 1st place was risky. It has backfired spectacularly. They couldn't even get any of the protest vote. LNR may find it difficult to hold her own MEP seat next time round. A crushing election for them.
I think to dismiss Casey's vote a purely an anti traveller vote or protest vote is wrong. 21% is a big vote, especially without any political party behind you. Even SF couldn't muster that.
In the end there was only 2 candidates in the race Casey and Higgins with the other 4 candidates running novelty, joke campaigns.
How do you marry that up with the fact that he had 1% pre-traveller speech?
What speech?
He made a comment during a radio interview
He spoke his mind on what he thought about entitlement in the state
Ok then how do you marry it up with the fact that he had 1% pre-traveller comment?
Quote from: trailer on October 27, 2018, 04:54:38 PM
Where now for SF? With all the election machinery behind their candidate this was a very disappointing result. As I said LNR was not a credible candidate, in what was, lets face it, a farce of an election. 3 joke candidates and she's had a very disappointing result including coming 3rd in Donegal and her own constituency. This was Mary Lou's first big test as leader and she has failed miserably. Running a candidate in the 1st place was risky. It has backfired spectacularly. They couldn't even get any of the protest vote. LNR may find it difficult to hold her own MEP seat next time round. A crushing election for them.
I think to dismiss Casey's vote a purely an anti traveller vote or protest vote is wrong. 21% is a big vote, especially without any political party behind you. Even SF couldn't muster that.
In the end there was only 2 candidates in the race Casey and Higgins with the other 4 candidates running novelty, joke campaigns.
A little over a week ago Casey wasn't in the race either and was also seen as novelty cadidate. He went from 100/1 to 10/1 in the odds when he decided not to withdraw his name from the campaign, strange that...
Quote from: Boycey on October 27, 2018, 06:42:49 PM
Ok then how do you marry it up with the fact that he had 1% pre-traveller comment?
What exactly did he say about travellers that was wrong?
That they be treated the same as everyone else?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 27, 2018, 07:30:03 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 27, 2018, 06:42:49 PM
Ok then how do you marry it up with the fact that he had 1% pre-traveller comment?
What exactly did he say about travellers that was wrong?
That they be treated the same as everyone else?
Your missing the point.. trailer said that it probably wasn't an anti-traveller protest vote. I think that going from 1% to 21% after the comment suggests it might of been a factor? I didn't comment on whether what he said was right or wrong
Good piece in the Irish Times, I like the line about Ross O'Carroll Kelly's dad :)
Michael D Higgins vs Peter Casey: some perspective is important (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/michael-d-higgins-vs-peter-casey-some-perspective-is-important-1.3678278
Good to see Michael D win.
Good to see the rest lose their Election Money.
Looking forward to seeing the Presidential spending a/c's as promised next. ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 27, 2018, 07:59:13 PM
Good to see Michael D win.
Good to see the rest lose their Election Money.
Looking forward to seeing the Presidential spending a/c's as promised next. ;D
I believe Casey gets his money back, the rest don't.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 27, 2018, 07:30:03 PM
Quote from: Boycey on October 27, 2018, 06:42:49 PM
Ok then how do you marry it up with the fact that he had 1% pre-traveller comment?
What exactly did he say about travellers that was wrong?
That they be treated the same as everyone else?
Casey said Travellers are "basically people who are camping on someone else's land"
Quote from: Itchy on October 27, 2018, 08:12:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 27, 2018, 07:59:13 PM
Good to see Michael D win.
Good to see the rest lose their Election Money.
Looking forward to seeing the Presidential spending a/c's as promised next. ;D
I believe Casey gets his money back, the rest don't.
He get's his money back for having Balls! Whether you think he's right or wrong he had the Balls to say what he said.
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 08:55:23 PM
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
He opened a wound? Do you think he had an influence on those who voted for him? That he changed what they thought when he said what he said? If he said that the Bankers had a lot to answer for the surge in support would have been minimal (and he'd have a fair few less to play golf with in Donegal). It is easier to pick on a group that in the main don't vote. That not to say some of what he said has substance. But sure you can't say anything about anyone anymore. Without the gender, race or what ever else can be dug up being brought onto the table. Casey like all the rest of the chasing bunch had a bit of a Johnny come lately Candidates about them. Glad to see Michael D get back in, not that it was ever in doubt.
If he'd mentioned bankers he'd have being telling us what they did and what was wrong with it and the huge effect it had on the country. But instead he said that travellers (not some travellers) camp on other people's land. I reckon you can clearly see the difference and I wonder why you'd make the comparison.
Casey spoke his mind and owned his comments. That's why people supported him. 21% isn't a protest vote. A lot of Ireland liked what he had to say. However it should not be overlooked that Michael D absolutely romped home with a massive endorsement. Thankfully Irish people recognise experience and class.
SF should have owned the protest vote. Only political party to run a candidate. Put a massive effort in and were widely rejected and lost their expenses (although they can afford this 20 times over). A party in trouble. Interesting times ahead for Mary Lou and Michelle.
Cómhgáirdeas a Michíl D.
An méad is mó vótai a fuair éinne riamh in ÉirInn.
SF agus Marylou = uafásach.
Higgins is obviously doing a decent job to be reelected. The first president since De Valera. But he too old to be president. He will be 84/85 when second term is up. One spell of 7 years was enough. Enough for anyone. 4 years in US.
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 08:55:23 PM
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
Doesn't really take much balls to hit upon a small non voting group that hardly anyone likes or can say a good word for.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2018, 12:31:25 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 08:55:23 PM
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
Doesn't really take much balls to hit upon a small non voting group that hardly anyone likes or can say a good word for.
Who did he slag off? incarcerated pedophiles?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2018, 12:31:25 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 08:55:23 PM
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
Doesn't really take much balls to hit upon a small non voting group that hardly anyone likes or can say a good word for.
Welfare scroungers?
People on housing waiting list who refuse houses?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 28, 2018, 06:35:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2018, 12:31:25 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 08:55:23 PM
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
Doesn't really take much balls to hit upon a small non voting group that hardly anyone likes or can say a good word for.
Welfare scroungers?
People on housing waiting list who refuse houses?
I imagine people have indeed turned down houses for many reasons but Casey only focused one particular case. Same applies for people that don't pay tax. I seem to remember a very high profile case of corporation tax not being paid. Casey also didn't mention that. What conclusion should I draw from that?
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 28, 2018, 08:02:49 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 28, 2018, 06:35:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2018, 12:31:25 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 08:55:23 PM
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
Doesn't really take much balls to hit upon a small non voting group that hardly anyone likes or can say a good word for.
Welfare scroungers?
People on housing waiting list who refuse houses?
I imagine people have indeed turned down houses for many reasons but Casey only focused one particular case. Same applies for people that don't pay tax. I seem to remember a very high profile case of corporation tax not being paid. Casey also didn't mention that. What conclusion should I draw from that?
If you're desperate for a house, you don't turn one down just because it's not beside your parents or the neighbours don't suit you
Everyone should pay their fair share of tax in Ireland
Every cent is needed to fly the government jet up and down to Belfast
Well done Casey. It's working perfectly. The sheep are bleating.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 28, 2018, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 28, 2018, 08:02:49 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 28, 2018, 06:35:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2018, 12:31:25 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 08:55:23 PM
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
Doesn't really take much balls to hit upon a small non voting group that hardly anyone likes or can say a good word for.
Welfare scroungers?
People on housing waiting list who refuse houses?
I imagine people have indeed turned down houses for many reasons but Casey only focused one particular case. Same applies for people that don't pay tax. I seem to remember a very high profile case of corporation tax not being paid. Casey also didn't mention that. What conclusion should I draw from that?
If you're desperate for a house, you don't turn one down just because it's not beside your parents or the neighbours don't suit you
Everyone should pay their fair share of tax in Ireland
Every cent is needed to fly the government jet up and down to Belfast
Why reply and intentionally avoid the point?
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 28, 2018, 08:37:56 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 28, 2018, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 28, 2018, 08:02:49 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 28, 2018, 06:35:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2018, 12:31:25 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 27, 2018, 08:55:23 PM
You think that the lowest polling candidate saying something controversial constitutes him having balls?
So not a desperate attempt to get back in the race?
Doesn't really take much balls to hit upon a small non voting group that hardly anyone likes or can say a good word for.
Welfare scroungers?
People on housing waiting list who refuse houses?
I imagine people have indeed turned down houses for many reasons but Casey only focused one particular case. Same applies for people that don't pay tax. I seem to remember a very high profile case of corporation tax not being paid. Casey also didn't mention that. What conclusion should I draw from that?
If you're desperate for a house, you don't turn one down just because it's not beside your parents or the neighbours don't suit you
Everyone should pay their fair share of tax in Ireland
Every cent is needed to fly the government jet up and down to Belfast
Why reply and intentionally avoid the point?
What corporation tax?
I said everyone should pay their share
From long-term unemployed to millionaires
Its the basis of a republic
Pat Leahy in the Irish Times
« Students should be able to live on university campuses. People should be able get on the housing ladder. We are too focused on Dublin. We should use the networks of the diaspora. It's a disgrace that elderly women are on hospital trolleys. And so on and so on, brain-farting out soundbites and platitudes.
This isn't the rise of a new political force. It's taxi-driver stuff. It's the end of the bar in the golf club after a long day. It's Ross O'Carroll- Kelly's dad with a Derry accent. »
I think he is very complacent. It's not going to be a new political movement tomorrow but it is not going to go away. FF already blew up over this issue when it didn't understand the people.
and patronised them with plámás.
It's easy to give out about things but sitting down working out how to fix them is another days work altogether.
Takes more than soundbites.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2018, 11:17:35 AM
It's easy to give out about things but sitting down working out how to fix them is another days work altogether.
Takes more than soundbites.
The president can do f all anyway.
He was highlighting issues which clearly a lot of people think are important
While he may have stated a few useful truths with regard to the entitlement culture, in his interviews since the count it seems that Casey is a bit of a head the ball, perhaps he could title himself Head Casey.
He declared he would join FF and would lead the party. Oddly those in FF were not too keen on this, especially those that wanted to lead the party. He reckons Brexit will never happen and that Varadakar is mad for worrying about it, when even the softest of Brexits could be a pain in the rump for people in Buncrana if it were not managed.
Massive Ego trip.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 29, 2018, 11:16:33 AM
Massive Ego trip.
Like most politicians who trash talk opponent down, he has an elevated perception of his own character which is not shy to constantly embellish.
That act fools the gullible, among whom are those who happen to believe he channels their secret thoughts.
I think he's playing the lot of them
FF are horrified that he would come near them, they are the ultimate entitlements party
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 29, 2018, 11:23:13 PM
I think he's playing the lot of them
FF are horrified that he would come near them, they are the ultimate entitlements party
And FF have always been populist
I'd say Casey is absolutely pissing himself at all those coming out giving him plaudits for "speaking the truth" or "telling it like it is" - he's having a complete laugh. Depressing how shallow a lot of people's ability to analyse things are. Explains why our democracy hasn't really worked.
Did ye see the latest Adolf/Trump elected as Brazilian President.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 10:37:35 AM
Did ye see the latest Adolf/Trump elected as Brazilian President.
He reminds me of some Israeli politicians.
And the fruitcake in the Philippines
I like the Mencken quote about democracy, which involves giving the people what they want, good and hard
He'll do wonders for the Army.
Quote from: Hardy on October 28, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
Well done Casey. It's working perfectly. The sheep are bleating.
I suppose the 56% who followed the approved agenda of the media, academia and the bulk of our political class aren't sheep so ::)
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 28, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
Well done Casey. It's working perfectly. The sheep are bleating.
I suppose the 56% who followed the approved agenda of the media, academia and the bulk of our political class aren't sheep so ::)
There would have been no election only for the media craving (one for their own ends) and therefore hyping up these non-entities. It was a farce. And it must be remembered that these candidates got political support to get on the ballot paper.
Personally I think it was a poor vote for such an obvious answer. MDH doing a fine job in a ceremonial role....others thought they were going to solve world hunger and what not. The whole thing was an embarrassment if you ask me.
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 30, 2018, 06:03:06 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 28, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
Well done Casey. It's working perfectly. The sheep are bleating.
I suppose the 56% who followed the approved agenda of the media, academia and the bulk of our political class aren't sheep so ::)
There would have been no election only for the media craving (one for their own ends) and therefore hyping up these non-entities. It was a farce. And it must be remembered that these candidates got political support to get on the ballot paper.
Personally I think it was a poor vote for such an obvious answer. MDH doing a fine job in a ceremonial role....others thought they were going to solve world hunger and what not. The whole thing was an embarrassment if you ask me.
He should have retired gracefully
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 30, 2018, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 30, 2018, 06:03:06 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 30, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 28, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
Well done Casey. It's working perfectly. The sheep are bleating.
I suppose the 56% who followed the approved agenda of the media, academia and the bulk of our political class aren't sheep so ::)
There would have been no election only for the media craving (one for their own ends) and therefore hyping up these non-entities. It was a farce. And it must be remembered that these candidates got political support to get on the ballot paper.
Personally I think it was a poor vote for such an obvious answer. MDH doing a fine job in a ceremonial role....others thought they were going to solve world hunger and what not. The whole thing was an embarrassment if you ask me.
He should have retired gracefully
Effectively he has!
Casey spouting off on the Late Late Show.
Traveller rent a crowd not very impressive either.
Jennifer zamparelli on the old Twitter claiming casey didn't know what direct provision was when she questioned him in the rte hallway. He's replied that that's completely false.
Someone is lying anyway.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2018, 11:38:08 PM
Casey spouting off on the Late Late Show.
Traveller rent a crowd not very impressive either.
They found the two travellers with degrees and who work for pavee point
Tubridy was a joke
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2018, 11:38:08 PM
Casey spouting off on the Late Late Show.
Traveller rent a crowd not very impressive either.
Traveller rent a crowd? what's that supposed to mean in this context? They are not Travellers per se but just jump on the Traveller ethnic protest bandwagon?
Casey's contribution to the debate were idiotic and bizarre in the extreme,
Move all the Travellers to the Phoenix park, or was it just 5,000 of them?, house them, presumably not the horses as well - so send all their horses to the knackers yard, build some sort of tent/caravan/mobile city and educate them them to become Irish nationals, stripping off all their Traveller ethnicity, then after 5 years (Casey's timeline) with their Irish ethnic diploma be evicted from the Phoenix Park.
Presumably, what happens to those Travellers who don't conform? turn the Curragh Camp into a concentration camp? It would be available, because according to Casey Ireland does not need a proper army.
I heard a comment on radio the other day from one person explaining why they voted for Casey and would support him, "because that man is brave enough to speak the truth".
Whose truth I wondered?
Quote from: trailer on October 27, 2018, 04:54:38 PM
Where now for SF? With all the election machinery behind their candidate this was a very disappointing result. As I said LNR was not a credible candidate, in what was, lets face it, a farce of an election. 3 joke candidates and she's had a very disappointing result including coming 3rd in Donegal and her own constituency. This was Mary Lou's first big test as leader and she has failed miserably. Running a candidate in the 1st place was risky. It has backfired spectacularly. They couldn't even get any of the protest vote. LNR may find it difficult to hold her own MEP seat next time round. A crushing election for them.
I think to dismiss Casey's vote a purely an anti traveller vote or protest vote is wrong. 21% is a big vote, especially without any political party behind you. Even SF couldn't muster that.
In the end there was only 2 candidates in the race Casey and Higgins with the other 4 candidates running novelty, joke campaigns.
Called regarding LNR. Hadn't any credibility left to hold her MEP seat.