Thanks to everyone who posted their top ten forward choices and to those who just agonised over them or even to those who trolled others who made the choices and agonised.
There were 44 players listed in 24 submissions and I have listed the top 25 according to the percentage of the vote received with 10 given to the first listed and down to 1 for last on an individual list.
1 Canavan Peter
2 Fitzgerald Maurice
3 Cooper Colm
4 Connor Matt
5 Brogan Bernard
6 Linden Mickey
7 Blaney Greg
8 McGuigan Frank
9 Sheehy Mike
10 Spillane Pat
11 Egan John
12 McDonald Ciaran
13 Donnellan Michael
14 McConville Oisin
15 Cavanagh Sean
16 Tomkins Larry
17 McDonnell Steven
18 O'Neill Stephen
19 Connolly Diarmuid
20 Joyce Padraic
21 Giles Trevor
22 O'Rourke Colm
24 Murphy Michael
24 Corkery Colin
25 Bradley Paddy
The list below shows the percentage of the vote received by each player in the list. If two or more had the same percentage then they are placed according to the greater number of votes received:
15.22% Canavan Peter
11.78% Fitzgerald Maurice
11.34% Cooper Colm
7.39% Connor Matt
4.68% Brogan Bernard
4.39% Linden Mickey
3.22% Blaney Greg
3.07% McGuigan Frank
2.78% Sheehy Mike
2.71% Spillane Pat
2.71% Egan John
2.63% McDonald Ciaran
2.56% Donnellan Michael
2.19% McConville Oisin
2.19% Cavanagh Sean
2.12% Tomkins Larry
2.05% McDonnell Steven
1.98% O'Neill Stephen
1.54% Connolly Diarmuid
1.54% Joyce Padraic
1.24% Giles Trevor
1.24% O'Rourke Colm
1.02% Murphy Michael
0.95% Corkery Colin
0.88% Bradley Paddy
*Amended on a recount but no change to order
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.
Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
I'll put it in the diary. :)
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.
Hardly provincial bias when all bar one list had Canavan and it didn't recognise anyone above the 54th parallel but with only 9 names could have been leaving a space for him.
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.
Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.
Canavan was the best forward over the past 25 years, I would be surprised if there were really many who would dispute that.
I would dispute it. Canavan was a great footballer but his inability to control his temper allied with his cowardly cynical fouling and feigning injury to get other players sent off detract from his undoubted ability for me.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Are you serious? They'll both be in the top 10 for definite, Connolly should be in the top 5 now and in 10 years. Both are genuine great forwards playing in an era when it is much more difficult to be a forward, particularly an inside one.
Canaan was a better player when Tyrone were shite. When Harte took over, he and his teammates resorted to anything that got them over the line, so his game and skills were watered down after 2002. Still a very talented player though and deservedly in the top 25.
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 01:27:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Are you serious? They'll both be in the top 10 for definite, Connolly should be in the top 5 now and in 10 years. Both are genuine great forwards playing in an era when it is much more difficult to be a forward, particularly an inside one.
Brogan deserves to be there. Connolly doesn't even rank.
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 01:27:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Are you serious? They'll both be in the top 10 for definite, Connolly should be in the top 5 now and in 10 years. Both are genuine great forwards playing in an era when it is much more difficult to be a forward, particularly an inside one.
Deadly serious.
Brogan is decent but should be nowhere near the top 25. He's only there because it's easier for people to remember last weeks players than those of 30 years ago.
As for Connolly, he's probably the most over-rated player in the last decade.
Anyway, Owen B is running this poll again in 2027, so we'll see then how great these two were regarded.
Connolly is the best player in Ireland. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I'm at a loss to see how anyone could view Connolly as anything other than one of the best players of his generation. Brogan is far better than decent. By the way, one of the reasons Brogan wil definitely be there in 10 years time is because more people will remember him better than Canavan or other players from the 80's 90's. Sure Matt Connor is easily the best forward of the past 40 years but he didn't top this one and will probably slip down the list as the years pass by.
I didn't enter a top ten as I couldn't really decide who would be in it and it's very hard to objectively compare current players with those from the past. While the likes of Brogan may benefit from being current, many past players benefit from being remembered for their best days rather than the days the couldn't hit a barn door or get a ball off some sticky corner back.
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 02:01:07 PM
Connolly is the best player in Ireland. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I'm at a loss to see how anyone could view Connolly as anything other than one of the best players of his generation. Brogan is far better than decent. By the way, one of the reasons Brogan wil definitely be there in 10 years time is because more people will remember him better than Canavan or other players from the 80's 90's. Sure Matt Connor is easily the best forward of the past 40 years but he didn't top this one and will probably slip down the list as the years pass by.
I didn't enter a top ten as I couldn't really decide who would be in it and it's very hard to objectively compare current players with those from the past. While the likes of Brogan may benefit from being current, many past players benefit from being remembered for their best days rather than the days the couldn't hit a barn door or get a ball off some sticky corner back.
..like Connolly every time he faces Keegan.
What's your point? Having one of the best footballers in Ireland designated to mark you every time you play is proof positive of the quality of Connolly. I don't imagine Mayo management assign their best player to man mark Connolly because he's overrated.
Connolly rarely even stands out on the Dublin team. Players like Kilkenny, Fenton, MacAuley, McManamon, Flynn, Rock and even Brogan stand out and are more inspirational figures on the field than Connolly is. In most games he is anonymous, except when he's up to his dirty tricks.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 02:13:08 PM
Connolly rarely even stands out on the Dublin team. Players like Kilkenny, Fenton, MacAuley, McManamon, Flynn, Rock and even Brogan stand out and are more inspirational figures on the field than Connolly is. In most games he is anonymous, except when he's up to his dirty tricks.
His removal on a black card was a major factor in Dublin's decline in the league final against Kerry. Even when marked by Keegan he has the ability to provide the killer scores.
Ah stop Benny, you must be winding me up. DMcA, Rock, McManamon, seriously? A guy who can't make the team, a guy who can't kick and a guy who probably wouldn't make the team if he wasn't a very good free taker? Like I said, you're either winding me up or you honestly hold an opinion that very few would share.
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 02:12:58 PM
What's your point? Having one of the best footballers in Ireland designated to mark you every time you play is proof positive of the quality of Connolly. I don't imagine Mayo management assign their best player to man mark Connolly because he's overrated.
..except they play opposing positions regardless, and continually loses the duel even on the scoreline - embarrassing for a forward.
I'm glad the Connolly hype train has broken the last 12 months. Lovely skills but not the temperament or big match delivery that justifies him being ranked on these sorts of lists or as the best footballer in Ireland - a title he never won in any of its yearly award forms, it should be noted.
Factors that come to mind that can skew the results of making a list over thirty years.
TV coverage of intercounty games 20+ years ago was sh1te.
TV coverage of club games 10+ years ago was sh1te.
TV Coverage of League Games 10+ years ago was sh1te.
The lack of a back door pre-2001 meant that many many counties had less games. for example Dinny Allen in the 70's and early 80's had few if no games after the Munster final.
No Quarters finals in the Championship pre-2001.
Great players who get a serious injury can help or curtailed their status in the game. Matt Connor regretfully never got the chance to lose form in his late 20's early 30's. Many players are very talented at 24 but lose form later in their career and are remembered for the end of their careers. eg Ronan Clarke
There can often be a gloss in the way we remember players from long ago. Often exaggerated from seeing them with youthful eyes. Memories can play trick with us and exaggerate displays.
Many who vote for such a list are to young to remember or to have just seem them when they were in decline.
Present day footballers will always be naturally high on the Radar.
Provincial, County and Club bias will always come into play.
Weaker counties players never get just recognition.
All Ireland medal snobbery will away come into play.
You missed the factor whereby contributors don't read the rules and give an alphabetical list, instead of a top to bottom list, skewing the results in favour of the likes of Blaney, Brogan, Canavan etc to the detriment of those later in the alphabet.
It would be interesting if those submissions (at least seven) were excluded form this survey; would the outcomes change?
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 02:12:58 PM
What's your point? Having one of the best footballers in Ireland designated to mark you every time you play is proof positive of the quality of Connolly. I don't imagine Mayo management assign their best player to man mark Connolly because he's overrated.
..except they play opposing positions regardless, and continually loses the duel even on the scoreline - embarrassing for a forward.
I'm glad the Connolly hype train has broken the last 12 months. Lovely skills but not the temperament or big match delivery that justifies him being ranked on these sorts of lists or as the best footballer in Ireland - a title he never won in any of its yearly award forms, it should be noted.
Nonsense. A half back now has loads of bodies back supporting him so it's much easier to mark a forward and then break ahead yourself if your teammates turn it over. Keegan is a great player but half back is the place to be if you want to shine in the modern game.
His temperament is fine, yes a bit more aggressive than ideal but no harm having that edge. He has played brilliantly for Dublin in many big games so to say he doesn't deliver in big games is just silly. How many player of the year awards did Cooper or Canavan win? If other IC managers could pick a player to join their team Connolly would be on all the lists.
Anyone who doesn't rate Connolly either needs their head examined or just doesn't like him on a personal level. He's an exceptional footballer.
'I'm glad the Connolly hype train has broken...'...seek help!
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 02:12:58 PM
What's your point? Having one of the best footballers in Ireland designated to mark you every time you play is proof positive of the quality of Connolly. I don't imagine Mayo management assign their best player to man mark Connolly because he's overrated.
..except they play opposing positions regardless, and continually loses the duel even on the scoreline - embarrassing for a forward.
I'm glad the Connolly hype train has broken the last 12 months. Lovely skills but not the temperament or big match delivery that justifies him being ranked on these sorts of lists or as the best footballer in Ireland - a title he never won in any of its yearly award forms, it should be noted.
Nonsense. A half back now has loads of bodies back supporting him so it's much easier to mark a forward and then break ahead yourself if your teammates turn it over. Keegan is a great player but half back is the place to be if you want to shine in the modern game.
His temperament is fine, yes a bit more aggressive than ideal but no harm having that edge. He has played brilliantly for Dublin in many big games so to say he doesn't deliver in big games is just silly. How many player of the year awards did Cooper or Canavan win? If other IC managers could pick a player to join their team Connolly would be on all the lists.
Canavan won the Texaco PotY in 2003, Gooch the following year.
Trying to tell someone Connolly has a 'fine' temperament two weeks after he got sent off in a national final, itself hot on the heels of coming on in the previous game and getting sent off within 15 minutes, is laughable in the extreme.
Canavan is bound to have won in 95 too.
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 02:12:58 PM
What's your point? Having one of the best footballers in Ireland designated to mark you every time you play is proof positive of the quality of Connolly. I don't imagine Mayo management assign their best player to man mark Connolly because he's overrated.
..except they play opposing positions regardless, and continually loses the duel even on the scoreline - embarrassing for a forward.
I'm glad the Connolly hype train has broken the last 12 months. Lovely skills but not the temperament or big match delivery that justifies him being ranked on these sorts of lists or as the best footballer in Ireland - a title he never won in any of its yearly award forms, it should be noted.
Nonsense. A half back now has loads of bodies back supporting him so it's much easier to mark a forward and then break ahead yourself if your teammates turn it over. Keegan is a great player but half back is the place to be if you want to shine in the modern game.
His temperament is fine, yes a bit more aggressive than ideal but no harm having that edge. He has played brilliantly for Dublin in many big games so to say he doesn't deliver in big games is just silly. How many player of the year awards did Cooper or Canavan win? If other IC managers could pick a player to join their team Connolly would be on all the lists.
Canavan won the Texaco PotY in 2003, Gooch the following year.
Trying to tell someone Connolly has a 'fine' temperament two weeks after he got sent off in a national final, itself hot on the heels of coming on in the previous game and getting sent off within 15 minutes, is laughable in the extreme.
Ok so the guy who was voted by GAAboard as the best of the last 40 years won it once and Gooch, regarded by many as the best Kerry forward of all time, won it once. Surely if the POTY award was genuinely reflective of the greatness of a player it would be won more than once by those greats? If Connolly wins it before he finishes does that change things? He has certainly been in the running a few times too.
A black card for a rush of blood to the head was silly but the Monaghan black card was very soft (wrong actually). For a guy who has to deal with a lot of attention he has been remarkably restrained. If Canavan was in the era of the black card he'd have gotten a few. One of the things that made Canavan a great player was that edge that Connolly has.
He might not be everybody's cup of tea but it's daft to question his standing in the game, easily the best player in the country.
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 07:52:03 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 22, 2017, 02:12:58 PM
What's your point? Having one of the best footballers in Ireland designated to mark you every time you play is proof positive of the quality of Connolly. I don't imagine Mayo management assign their best player to man mark Connolly because he's overrated.
..except they play opposing positions regardless, and continually loses the duel even on the scoreline - embarrassing for a forward.
I'm glad the Connolly hype train has broken the last 12 months. Lovely skills but not the temperament or big match delivery that justifies him being ranked on these sorts of lists or as the best footballer in Ireland - a title he never won in any of its yearly award forms, it should be noted.
Nonsense. A half back now has loads of bodies back supporting him so it's much easier to mark a forward and then break ahead yourself if your teammates turn it over. Keegan is a great player but half back is the place to be if you want to shine in the modern game.
His temperament is fine, yes a bit more aggressive than ideal but no harm having that edge. He has played brilliantly for Dublin in many big games so to say he doesn't deliver in big games is just silly. How many player of the year awards did Cooper or Canavan win? If other IC managers could pick a player to join their team Connolly would be on all the lists.
Canavan won the Texaco PotY in 2003, Gooch the following year.
Trying to tell someone Connolly has a 'fine' temperament two weeks after he got sent off in a national final, itself hot on the heels of coming on in the previous game and getting sent off within 15 minutes, is laughable in the extreme.
Ok so the guy who was voted by GAAboard as the best of the last 40 years won it once and Gooch, regarded by many as the best Kerry forward of all time, won it once. Surely if the POTY award was genuinely reflective of the greatness of a player it would be won more than once by those greats? If Connolly wins it before he finishes does that change things? He has certainly been in the running a few times too.
A black card for a rush of blood to the head was silly but the Monaghan black card was very soft (wrong actually). For a guy who has to deal with a lot of attention he has been remarkably restrained. If Canavan was in the era of the black card he'd have gotten a few. One of the things that made Canavan a great player was that edge that Connolly has.
He might not be everybody's cup of tea but it's daft to question his standing in the game, easily the best player in the country.
Easily not the best in the country. In a list of the best forwards of all-time I question his standing.
In the game right now he's one of the top forwards, again with obvious temperamental caveats that have followed him throughout his career and are unlikely to change at the age of 29.
There's a Church of Connolly in some GAA circles but his failure to do anything of note against Keegan the last few years when it really mattered as well as his disciplinary issues cropping up again show the folly of christening him the best footballer in the country. The best player in the country was the player he was marking, and I don't say that lightly being from Roscommon.
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 22, 2017, 06:34:00 PM
You missed the factor whereby contributors don't read the rules and give an alphabetical list, instead of a top to bottom list, skewing the results in favour of the likes of Blaney, Brogan, Canavan etc to the detriment of those later in the alphabet.
It would be interesting if those submissions (at least seven) were excluded form this survey; would the outcomes change?
Thanks for pointing that out. It does skew the results when the weighting is applied. However, if the weighting is removed and the individual votes are counted the results are:
1 Peter Canavan (1)
2 Colm Cooper (3)
2 Maurice Fitzgerald (2)
4 Mickey Linden (6)
5 Matt Connor (4)
6 Bernard Brogan (5)
7 Frank McGuigan (8 )
7 Stephen O'Neill (18)
7 Mike Sheehy (9)
10 Pat Spillane (10)
11 Ciaran McDonald (12)
12 John Egan (11)
12 Steven McDonnell (17)
12 Larry Tompkins (16)
15 Greg Blaney (7)
15 Michael Donnellan (13)
15 Oisin McConville (14)
18 Diarmuid Connolly (19)
18 Michael Murphy (24)
20 Sean Cavanagh (15)
20 Trevor Giles (21)
22 Padraig Joyce (20)
()Results in brackets are those with the weighting
Simply wrong. Connolly was excellent defensively against Keegan and turned over the ball repeatedly. It's unfortunate that the game has gone that way but Connolly, on top of being an extremely skilful, two footed and accurate forward is a very hard working effective tackler. The more I think about him the more I realise how good he is. The best player in Ireland by a distance. If there is a church of Connolly (whatever that is) then it's well earned.
The Top ten NFL scorers this year. Interesting not many Div 1 forwards have made the list but in fairness apart from Roscommon the Div 1 forwards were up against well organized defences.
1 John Heslin 3-60
2 Paul Geaney 3-42
3 Conor Sweeney 4-38
4 Donal Kingston 5-34
5 Dean Rock 0-48
6 Paul Broderick 3-35
7 Robbie Smyth 0-39
8 Seanie Furlong 1-35
9 Jack McCarron 3-29
10 Emlyn Mulligan 1-33
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 22, 2017, 08:26:11 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 22, 2017, 06:34:00 PM
You missed the factor whereby contributors don't read the rules and give an alphabetical list, instead of a top to bottom list, skewing the results in favour of the likes of Blaney, Brogan, Canavan etc to the detriment of those later in the alphabet.
It would be interesting if those submissions (at least seven) were excluded form this survey; would the outcomes change?
Thanks for pointing that out. It does skew the results when the weighting is applied. However, if the weighting is removed and the individual votes are counted the results are:
1 Peter Canavan (1)
2 Colm Cooper (3)
2 Maurice Fitzgerald (2)
4 Mickey Linden (6)
5 Matt Connor (4)
6 Bernard Brogan (5)
7 Frank McGuigan (8 )
7 Stephen O'Neill (18)
7 Mike Sheehy (9)
10 Pat Spillane (10)
11 Ciaran McDonald (12)
12 John Egan (11)
12 Steven McDonnell (17)
12 Larry Tompkins (16)
15 Greg Blaney (7)
15 Michael Donnellan (13)
15 Oisin McConville (14)
18 Diarmuid Connolly (19)
18 Michael Murphy (24)
20 Sean Cavanagh (15)
20 Trevor Giles (21)
22 Padraig Joyce (20)
()Results in brackets are those with the weighting
I was one of the guilty ones...for what it is worth here is the order of my choices:
Connor Matt
Cooper Colm
Sheehy Mikey
Fitzgerald Maurice
Canavan Peter
Egan John
Spillane Pat
McDonald Ciaran
McGuigan Frank
Russell Mike Frank
Any plans for other positions, Brannigan?
Quote from: ONeill on April 22, 2017, 11:36:25 PM
Any plans for other positions, Brannigan?
Cake would win best keeper anyways.
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:41:55 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 22, 2017, 11:36:25 PM
Any plans for other positions, Brannigan?
Cake would win best keeper anyways.
Forget the fad of scoring points - who's the best shot-stopper? Big Pascal was handy. Cluxton? Charlie Nelligan? Benny Tierney? I'd go for Hearty.
He actually sprung to mind.
Any man who has a wiki page is a good'un - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_McGreevy
Quote from: ONeill on April 22, 2017, 11:55:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:41:55 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 22, 2017, 11:36:25 PM
Any plans for other positions, Brannigan?
Cake would win best keeper anyways.
Forget the fad of scoring points - who's the best shot-stopper? Big Pascal was handy. Cluxton? Charlie Nelligan? Benny Tierney? I'd go for Hearty.
Mickey McVeigh and Brendan McVeigh were excellent keepers for Down in their careers.
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.
Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.
Its hard to make yourself consistently look like a clown on this thing but you do manage it.
Do you not look at the votes and recognition canavan gets in all quarters and just think to yourself if you don't genuinely think he should be there and think i really do not have a clue. because thats what everyone else thinks!
Canavan played in a time without a dozen cameras watching you and got battered every game from the age of 18 of course he stepped over the lines at times.
Pity roscommon didnt have a bit more backbone or they might be relevant now
Quote from: redhandefender on April 23, 2017, 10:14:06 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.
Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.
Its hard to make yourself consistently look like a clown on this thing but you do manage it.
Do you not look at the votes and recognition canavan gets in all quarters and just think to yourself if you don't genuinely think he should be there and think i really do not have a clue. because thats what everyone else thinks!
Canavan played in a time without a dozen cameras watching you and got battered every game from the age of 18 of course he stepped over the lines at times.
Pity roscommon didnt have a bit more backbone or they might be relevant now
You seem a bit upset. Nasty stuff.
I ranked Canavan the fourth best forward I've ever seen ffs.
It's just very obvious that the two Kerry lads were something special, and for me Michael Donnellan's once in a generation gifts - bringing Galway to two AI titles and three finals, the same as Canavan did but in a far more condensed time-frame - puts him above the Tyrone man too.
And whatever way you cut it, Fitzgerald and Cooper are generally the two mentioned when talking about the greatest forwards in the last 20-30 years. This forum by its make-up has an Ulster bias so pointing out that is entirely fair game when it comes to judging these results.
There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.
This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
I would agree with your opinion on Brogan - Charlie Redmond or Dessie Farrell in their day were as good as Brogan, and I don't think they were even mentioned in this poll/thread.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 23, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.
This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.
OK but ask this about any forward you may choose:
1. Was he a consistent scorer in big games?
2. Did he pose a scoring threat against every team across the country and over a period of time?
3. Was he a match winner on a regular basis and when it really mattered, i.e. could he turn a game around?
4. Did he make his team mates play better than they were as individuals?
Quote from: The Stallion on April 23, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.
This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.
One thing that nobody seems to discuss about Gooch is his diving and moaning and whining to match officials, trying to referee games. I just wanted to add that in there in terms of balance. Just ask Limerick football fans what they thought of his behaviour on the pitch.
Canavan took it and dished it out, he was well able to look after himself which is one of the reasons why he was so great.
Quote from: Syferus on April 23, 2017, 10:24:26 AM
Quote from: redhandefender on April 23, 2017, 10:14:06 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.
Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.
Its hard to make yourself consistently look like a clown on this thing but you do manage it.
Do you not look at the votes and recognition canavan gets in all quarters and just think to yourself if you don't genuinely think he should be there and think i really do not have a clue. because thats what everyone else thinks!
Canavan played in a time without a dozen cameras watching you and got battered every game from the age of 18 of course he stepped over the lines at times.
Pity roscommon didnt have a bit more backbone or they might be relevant now
You seem a bit upset. Nasty stuff.
I ranked Canavan the fourth best forward I've ever seen ffs.
It's just very obvious that the two Kerry lads were something special, and for me Michael Donnellan's once in a generation gifts - bringing Galway to two AI titles and three finals, the same as Canavan did but in a far more condensed time-frame - puts him above the Tyrone man too.
And whatever way you cut it, Fitzgerald and Cooper are generally the two mentioned when talking about the greatest forwards in the last 20-30 years. This forum by its make-up has an Ulster bias so pointing out that is entirely fair game when it comes to judging these results.
You were saying in this thread a few minutes ago that it was hard to bring yourself to claiming Lee Keegan was the best footballer in the country because he was a Mayo man.
How do you square that off with claiming Canavan only gathered that rank on here because of an Ulster bias? Do you think a lot of Ulster counties would take pleasure in giving a Tyrone man, and an absolute scourge to their counties at that?
There's a deep rooted conflict ion you've created for yourself there.
You also note that Fiztgerald and Cooper are generally regarded as the two greatest of the past 20-30 years? By who, those with a free state bias?
The bottom line is with Cooper anyway, despite all what his cheerleaders may say, that he does not have reference points in his career of coming to his side's rescue in the really, really big games and dragging him over the line and there were plenty of times when Kerry needed this in his career. It's grand having all the talent Gooch unquestionably had but what use is it when he couldn't turn it on when needed. He's lucky he played in such a talented side, he's blessed Donaghy came on the scene when he did, history will say he lost more All Ireland's than he won and the only victories he had were against Cork and Mayo sides who were terrified at the sight of the Kerry green and gold jerseys. In 2004, 2006 and 2007 you got the impression Mayo and Cork were beaten from the first few minutes, psychologically they didn't have it.
When you have the all the skill and talent Gooch had, then it's easy to play when all the parameters allow you to play. It is when they turn and the odds are against you that you will find the true worth of that player.
Quote from: Syferus on April 23, 2017, 10:24:26 AM
Quote from: redhandefender on April 23, 2017, 10:14:06 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 22, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Canavan topping the poll by a large margin is the really mad thing. Provincial bias at its finest imho.
Brogan made it onto a lot of lists near the end and only 3% separates him from the next 13 players, while Canavan has a greater margin than that over Fitzgerald and Gooch, both nearly universally regarded as the best forwards of their respective generations.
Its hard to make yourself consistently look like a clown on this thing but you do manage it.
Do you not look at the votes and recognition canavan gets in all quarters and just think to yourself if you don't genuinely think he should be there and think i really do not have a clue. because thats what everyone else thinks!
Canavan played in a time without a dozen cameras watching you and got battered every game from the age of 18 of course he stepped over the lines at times.
Pity roscommon didnt have a bit more backbone or they might be relevant now
You seem a bit upset. Nasty stuff.
I ranked Canavan the fourth best forward I've ever seen ffs.
It's just very obvious that the two Kerry lads were something special, and for me Michael Donnellan's once in a generation gifts - bringing Galway to two AI titles and three finals, the same as Canavan did but in a far more condensed time-frame - puts him above the Tyrone man too.
And whatever way you cut it, Fitzgerald and Cooper are generally the two mentioned when talking about the greatest forwards in the last 20-30 years. This forum by its make-up has an Ulster bias so pointing out that is entirely fair game when it comes to judging these results.
Canavan's mentioned just as much. In recent weeks for example, there have been Canavan v the Gooch articles on balls.ie and joe.ie (not the best websites, granted), Breheny listed him as the second best forward ever and Brolly's been going on about him as well. In a list of the top 125 footballers of all-time in the Indo a while back he was second behind Mikey Sheehy I think. If anything it's Maurice Fitz who doesn't get enough name recognition.
Cam the results be presented in 2 groups namely by Ulster voters and otherwise?
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 23, 2017, 11:07:34 AM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 23, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.
This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.
OK but ask this about any forward you may choose:
1. Was he a consistent scorer in big games?
2. Did he pose a scoring threat against every team across the country and over a period of time?
3. Was he a match winner on a regular basis and when it really mattered, i.e. could he turn a game around?
4. Did he make his team mates play better than they were as individuals?
Jimmy Keaveney ticked all those boxes.
Canavan names his top non-Tyrone 15 - https://youtu.be/m4Zh0CE-lzA
His forwards were: McCartan - Fallon - Fitz - Linden - Joyce - Gooch (subs Bradley - Galvin - McCabe)
Quote from: ONeill on April 23, 2017, 02:34:50 PM
Canavan names his top non-Tyrone 15 - https://youtu.be/m4Zh0CE-lzA
Excellent whiteboard writing skills for a PE teacher.
The best forwards I saw play outside my own county were Maurice Fitzgerald, Frank McGuigan and Michael Donnellan.
Although not the best in terms of ability the best forward I ever watched was from my own county - Oisin McConville. I lost count of the times I saw him get vital scores in games to carry Armagh and Crossmaglen to victory. Hopefully his nephews will carry that trait on with Armagh in the next few years. And not be so good for Cross!
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on April 23, 2017, 11:03:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
I would agree with your opinion on Brogan - Charlie Redmond or Dessie Farrell in their day were as good as Brogan, and I don't think they were even mentioned in this poll/thread.
Bernard Brogan at his peak was at different level to the likes Hill 16 favorites Redmond and Farrell. A truly top forward for me is one that looks like he is totally marked out of the game but is still is able to produce or create a match winning score and that was Brogan at his best.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 23, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.
This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.
Tony Fearon can't help himself again posting as Stallion.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 23, 2017, 06:28:07 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on April 23, 2017, 11:03:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
I would agree with your opinion on Brogan - Charlie Redmond or Dessie Farrell in their day were as good as Brogan, and I don't think they were even mentioned in this poll/thread.
Bernard Brogan at his peak was at different level to the likes Hill 16 favorites Redmond and Farrell. A truly top forward for me is one that looks like he is totally marked out of the game but is still is able to produce or create a match winning score and that was Brogan at his best.
Brogan is a great finisher, and relies on supply and his supporting players. Farrell and Redmond had to do a lot more work with a lesser team around them to get their scores, that is why I think they were as good as him. Put Brogan on the current Down/Meath/Armagh team and how do you think he would fare?
Very well. On his day superb player and even when he had off days he could either make or take vital scores. He has been on dublin teams which weren't fantastic.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on April 23, 2017, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 23, 2017, 06:28:07 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on April 23, 2017, 11:03:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
I would agree with your opinion on Brogan - Charlie Redmond or Dessie Farrell in their day were as good as Brogan, and I don't think they were even mentioned in this poll/thread.
Bernard Brogan at his peak was at different level to the likes Hill 16 favorites Redmond and Farrell. A truly top forward for me is one that looks like he is totally marked out of the game but is still is able to produce or create a match winning score and that was Brogan at his best.
Brogan is a great finisher, and relies on supply and his supporting players. Farrell and Redmond had to do a lot more work with a lesser team around them to get their scores, that is why I think they were as good as him. Put Brogan on the current Down/Meath/Armagh team and how do you think he would fare?
As opposed to which other top-class corner forward?
Ever.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2017, 09:22:25 PM
Very well. On his day superb player and even when he had off days he could either make or take vital scores. He has been on dublin teams which weren't fantastic.
A key point. Some seem to forget Dublin reached their first All Ireland final in 2011 for 16 years.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 23, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
There seems to be a rather one-sided picture of Canavan being painted by some folk. He did receive some awful treatment on the pitch at times, but Canavan was guilty of some cowardly and disgraceful acts himself. Diving, feigning injury, hitting out at people, cynical fouling etc.
This side detracts from how I view him overall. Great footballer but some inexcusable behaviour on the pitch.
Lol says the bitter Londonderry man! 5 weeks and counting!
It is clear to see why Canavan was voted number 1.
No doubting he had a side to him which attracted even more attention from 'markers' - like what went before and after the shower incident - but he did carry Tyrone for years and then played an integral part when the golden generation came.
We dont call him PTG for nothing
Larry Tompkins probably the man hardest done by in this poll, but has a few natural disadvantages
the age profile of voters
75% of poster are not from Munster
the other thing is every Criticism of D Connolly could also be made of canavan
Quote from: rosnarun on April 24, 2017, 11:22:24 AM
Larry Tompkins probably the man hardest done by in this poll, but has a few natural disadvantages
the age profile of voters
75% of poster are not from Munster
the other thing is every Criticism of D Connolly could also be made of canavan
Larry Tompkins disqualified himself for me when he got sunburned feet the week before a Munster Final.
Quote from: rosnarun on April 24, 2017, 11:22:24 AM
Larry Tompkins probably the man hardest done by in this poll, but has a few natural disadvantages
the age profile of voters
75% of poster are not from Munster
the other thing is every Criticism of D Connolly could also be made of canavan
Would Canavan have missed as much game time than Connolly has of late in big games?
Canavan was much cuter at his activities than Connolly is
"Lol says the bitter Londonderry man! 5 weeks and counting"
I'm not at all bitter. I have no problem praising Tyrone players. They have produced some brilliant footballers in the last 20 years like Canavan, McGuigan and O'Neill.
However when evaluating some players (from all counties, including my own), I feel the negative side of their game impacts on how I view them. Canavan is one such example. Some of his antics on the pitch were disgraceful.
Kieran Cunningham not happy with ye https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552) He has a point.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 24, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Kieran Cunningham not happy with ye https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552) He has a point.
Top 10, not Top 25. And as with all of these, who do you take out instead of him?
He surely does. However, if you pick a top ten Monday the following day you'd probably change 2 or 3 players so it's an impossible task. Also to be fair, I'd say most people here would have seen very little of Declan Browne or Matty Forde so when deciding between them and Stephen O'Neill or Steven McDonnell a lot lads here would have seen way more of the Ulster boys.
These things are only a bit of craic at the end of the day as there's no way you can pick a top ten that is fair.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 24, 2017, 11:33:05 AM
"Lol says the bitter Londonderry man! 5 weeks and counting"
I'm not at all bitter. I have no problem praising Tyrone players. They have produced some brilliant footballers in the last 20 years like Canavan, McGuigan and O'Neill.
However when evaluating some players (from all counties, including my own), I feel the negative side of their game impacts on how I view them. Canavan is one such example. Some of his antics on the pitch were disgraceful.
"disgraceful" how dramatic, like what? Disgraceful on a pitch I would class as unprovoked punches, cheap shots, eye gouge etc. I can assure you canavan never went out to start taking someone on in the physical stakes but he was ready especially against your bitter thugs
Good forwards in weaker counties could get away with being a one-man band in the pre-blanket era.
Browne & Forde would be nullified fairly easily nowadays.
On the flip-side, stick Brogan, Connolly, Murphy, Meehan etc. into those teams and they would cause carnage.
Canavan was the best I have ever seen. His ability to run with the ball was amazing, and he could score of either foot as well as win his own ball.
As for Connolly, definitely think he is overrated. Capable of moments of great skill but doesn't hurt the score board enough, I owuld have Stevie McDonnell or O'Neill over him anyday.
Bernard Brogan is slightly underrated I think though. Scores heavily in the majority of games and his ability to win ball and score of either foot is remarkable.
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 24, 2017, 03:56:12 PM
Canavan was the best I have ever seen. His ability to run with the ball was amazing, and he could score of either foot as well as win his own ball.
As for Connolly, definitely think he is overrated. Capable of moments of great skill but doesn't hurt the score board enough, I owuld have Stevie McDonnell or O'Neill over him anyday.
Bernard Brogan is slightly underrated I think though. Scores heavily in the majority of games and his ability to win ball and score of either foot is remarkable.
You're comparing a half forward (or someone who plays most of his football in the middle third) with out and out inside forwards here. What other half forward hurts the scoreboard more frequently than Connolly?
Quote from: redhandefender on April 24, 2017, 03:16:01 PM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 24, 2017, 11:33:05 AM
"Lol says the bitter Londonderry man! 5 weeks and counting"
I'm not at all bitter. I have no problem praising Tyrone players. They have produced some brilliant footballers in the last 20 years like Canavan, McGuigan and O'Neill.
However when evaluating some players (from all counties, including my own), I feel the negative side of their game impacts on how I view them. Canavan is one such example. Some of his antics on the pitch were disgraceful.
"disgraceful" how dramatic, like what? Disgraceful on a pitch I would class as unprovoked punches, cheap shots, eye gouge etc. I can assure you canavan never went out to start taking someone on in the physical stakes but he was ready especially against your bitter thugs
I'm not bitter about anything and I don't have any bitter thugs. Not sure why you keep mentioning bitterness.
You seem to be blissfully unaware or have turned a blind eye to some of the antics Canavan got up to. I won't attempt to try and change your mind on the matter.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 24, 2017, 03:51:15 PM
Good forwards in weaker counties could get away with being a one-man band in the pre-blanket era.
Browne & Forde would be nullified fairly easily nowadays.
On the flip-side, stick Brogan, Connolly, Murphy, Meehan etc. into those teams and they would cause carnage.
Connolly would cause carnage locked in a room by his himself, though. Meehan was a truly great talent - a bit like a Donnellan that didn't deliver AIs in his moments on top, but that AI win with Caltra remains one of the most impressive achievements in the history of Gaelic football.
I don't think any forward, even Gooch, would do much on a really weak side in today's age of near professional football. Lads like Emlyn Mulligan and Jamie Clarke have the capacity to be all-time greats but circumstance prevents them from ever being the best they can be.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 24, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Kieran Cunningham not happy with ye https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552) He has a point.
It must be a slow week for that journalist if he is on gaaboard and is upset by what he read on here.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 24, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 24, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Kieran Cunningham not happy with ye https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552) He has a point.
It must be a slow week for that journalist if he is on gaaboard and is upset by what he read on here.
Exactly
I wonder does he follow the Man Utd thread.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 24, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 24, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Kieran Cunningham not happy with ye https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552) He has a point.
It must be a slow week for that journalist if he is on gaaboard and is upset by what he read on here.
What does his opinion have to do with his profession?
Weird comment. Getting personal for no apparent reason.
It's hard to really judge Browne. Did he ever play in any semi-serious game against a decent opponent? With all due respect if Kerry or Cork were playing Tipp 15 years ago it would generally be played at a leisurely pace where Cork and Kerry ran out easy victors.
In contrast you can certainly judge Mattie Forde much more on merit, he delivered some massive performances against credible opposition in closely fought games.
Not Browne's fault but there will always be loads of question marks over how good he really was.
Quote from: Syferus on April 24, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 24, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 24, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Kieran Cunningham not happy with ye https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552) He has a point.
It must be a slow week for that journalist if he is on gaaboard and is upset by what he read on here.
What does his opinion have to do with his profession?
Weird comment. Getting personal for no apparent reason.
I got personal did i? you are the king of the weird comments on here oops.. getting personal for no apparent reason again ;D
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 24, 2017, 06:23:02 PM
It's hard to really judge Browne. Did he ever play in any semi-serious game against a decent opponent? With all due respect if Kerry or Cork were playing Tipp 15 years ago it would generally be played at a leisurely pace where Cork and Kerry ran out easy victors.
In contrast you can certainly judge Mattie Forde much more on merit, he delivered some massive performances against credible opposition in closely fought games.
Not Browne's fault but there will always be loads of question marks over how good he really was.
Likewise. He was obviously a talented footballer but it's difficult to compare him with regular Croke Park performers, who delivered against the best defences multiple times.
Dessie Dolan surely more deserving of plaudits.
Interesting comment about Jamie Clarke above too. Jamie is more of a Le Tissier than a Shearer. I'd probably have paid in quicker to watch the former, but if you're doing a "the greatest" thread, he's many, many rhngs below the latter.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 24, 2017, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 24, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 24, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 24, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Kieran Cunningham not happy with ye https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552) He has a point.
It must be a slow week for that journalist if he is on gaaboard and is upset by what he read on here.
What does his opinion have to do with his profession?
Weird comment. Getting personal for no apparent reason.
I got personal did i? you are the king of the weird comments on here oops.. getting personal for no apparent reason again ;D
Digging your hole even deeper..
While one might criticize Connolly for not scoring enough, if you look again at the last 10-15 minutes of the 2011 final, Dublin don't win that without his contribution.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 24, 2017, 11:23:56 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on April 24, 2017, 11:22:24 AM
Larry Tompkins probably the man hardest done by in this poll, but has a few natural disadvantages
the age profile of voters
75% of poster are not from Munster
the other thing is every Criticism of D Connolly could also be made of canavan
Larry Tompkins disqualified himself for me when he got sunburned feet the week before a Munster Final.
;D ;D
That's hilarious, sore as f**k tho as I am sure anyone who has suffered will testify
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Connolly is the best forward in the best team ever.
A lot of people go on about the effect of mass media on the vote for todays players, I would also like to mention that sometimes the memories play tricks when this is not available. For past players we tend to focus on their great games and do very little examination of their bad ones. It would be like judging Bernard Brogan's whole career on his footballer of the year season. It truly is an unfair comparison on how you can judge 24/7 analysis of now, against euphoric recall.
Quote from: vallankumous on April 25, 2017, 08:13:41 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Bernard Brogan? Really? Run this poll in 10 years and Brogan wouldn't even be mentioned, never mind make the top 25. Connolly either.
Connolly is the best forward in the best team ever.
Would you schtop
Quote from: Syferus on April 24, 2017, 07:08:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 24, 2017, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 24, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 24, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 24, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Kieran Cunningham not happy with ye https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/856469282389143552) He has a point.
It must be a slow week for that journalist if he is on gaaboard and is upset by what he read on here.
You are a complete dose fella
What does his opinion have to do with his profession?
Weird comment. Getting personal for no apparent reason.
I got personal did i? you are the king of the weird comments on here oops.. getting personal for no apparent reason again ;D
Digging your hole even deeper..
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 25, 2017, 01:48:00 AM
While one might criticize Connolly for not scoring enough, if you look again at the last 10-15 minutes of the 2011 final, Dublin don't win that without his contribution.
Yeah, but that was 6 years ago and he wasn't the marked man then, that he is now. Point me towards a knock out game, that the Dubs won in the past 2 or 3 years, where he was the most important or influential player on the pitch.
Quote from: Beffs on April 26, 2017, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 25, 2017, 01:48:00 AM
While one might criticize Connolly for not scoring enough, if you look again at the last 10-15 minutes of the 2011 final, Dublin don't win that without his contribution.
Yeah, but that was 6 years ago and he wasn't the marked man then, that he is now. Point me towards a knock out game, that the Dubs won in the past 2 or 3 years, where he was the most important or influential player on the pitch.
National League final showed what happened when his influence was removed from the game and Kerry were able to put Dublin under enough pressure to win.
What kind of standard is that? I think that's a ridiculous question. Teams are now set up to take the best players out of the game. Gifted footballers are now more about working hard for the team than displaying wonderful scoring performances. Connolly has been one of the most effective players in Ireland for over 10 years. He is the most complete footballer in Ireland by some distance, it isn't even close IMO.
Since when has a MOM performance in major game become the mark of a truly great player? Connolly has been a great player for Dublin and delivered in many big games. If some people can't see that then you'd have to wonder what they are looking at.
Quote from: Zulu on April 26, 2017, 07:05:56 PM
What kind of standard is that? I think that's a ridiculous question. Teams are now set up to take the best players out of the game. Gifted footballers are now more about working hard for the team than displaying wonderful scoring performances. Connolly has been one of the most effective players in Ireland for over 10 years. He is the most complete footballer in Ireland by some distance, it isn't even close IMO.
Since when has a MOM performance in major game become the mark of a truly great player? Connolly has been a great player for Dublin and delivered in many big games. If some people can't see that then you'd have to wonder what they are looking at.
Since forever.
My question is how has Connolly performed away from a home venue of Croke Park in the Championship? How does he play in away League semi finals and League finals. Does he find the travelling difficult and staying in Hotels during the Championship. How does he manage to get time off work to get to training? How does he always manage to overturn red cards? How many more times will he say that, that will be the last rush of blood? How many more times does he expect to get a free run in a game? How many times do the Dublin media expect him to get a free run in a game? How many solicitors does he have? How many shrinks does he have? How many times will he be the victim? How many times will he not live up to the hype? How many more people will come on here and say he is the best of his generation? How much longer can I listen to this?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2017, 09:40:47 PM
My question is how has Connolly performed away from a home venue of Croke Park in the Championship? How does he play in away League semi finals and League finals. Does he find the travelling difficult and staying in Hotels during the Championship. How does he manage to get time off work to get to training? How does he always manage to overturn red cards? How many more times will he say that, that will be the last rush of blood? How many more times does he expect to get a free run in a game? How many times do the Dublin media expect him to get a free run in a game? How many solicitors does he have? How many shrinks does he have? How many times will he be the victim? How many times will he not live up to the hype? How many more people will come on here and say he is the best of his generation? How much longer can I listen to this?
+1
He's a lovely footballer but the bandwagon he seems to have got behind him only because he's from Dublin and his disaplinary record and performances in numerous big games are what make the efforts to elevate him into the best player of a generation a bit daft.
Give me a prime Paul Flynn if I need a square-to-square HF that can do everything, and Bernard Brogan if I need a forward to nail a score with two lads hanging out of him with the game on the line. Brogan gets plenty of love but he deserves more than Connolly gets at least.
Quote from: Syferus on April 26, 2017, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 26, 2017, 07:05:56 PM
What kind of standard is that? I think that's a ridiculous question. Teams are now set up to take the best players out of the game. Gifted footballers are now more about working hard for the team than displaying wonderful scoring performances. Connolly has been one of the most effective players in Ireland for over 10 years. He is the most complete footballer in Ireland by some distance, it isn't even close IMO.
Since when has a MOM performance in major game become the mark of a truly great player? Connolly has been a great player for Dublin and delivered in many big games. If some people can't see that then you'd have to wonder what they are looking at.
Since forever.
Agreed. Kevin Hughes is a truly great player.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 26, 2017, 06:58:54 PM
Quote from: Beffs on April 26, 2017, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on April 25, 2017, 01:48:00 AM
While one might criticize Connolly for not scoring enough, if you look again at the last 10-15 minutes of the 2011 final, Dublin don't win that without his contribution.
Yeah, but that was 6 years ago and he wasn't the marked man then, that he is now. Point me towards a knock out game, that the Dubs won in the past 2 or 3 years, where he was the most important or influential player on the pitch.
National League final showed what happened when his influence was removed from the game and Kerry were able to put Dublin under enough pressure to win.
There have been plenty of games where he was on the pitch and, other Dubs got the over the line, far more than Connolly did....Brogan, McMannamon, MDMA, McMahon, just to name a few. Heck, it was a skinny bench warmer that won them the AI title last year, the one that Connolly's ego pissed away 2 weeks before. Connolly is an exceptionally gifted player, physically. Maybe, he is the most naurally talented player to ever don a Dublin jersey. But what goes on between his ears, will prevent him from being up there with the all time greats imo.
Quote from: Syferus on April 26, 2017, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 26, 2017, 07:05:56 PM
What kind of standard is that? I think that's a ridiculous question. Teams are now set up to take the best players out of the game. Gifted footballers are now more about working hard for the team than displaying wonderful scoring performances. Connolly has been one of the most effective players in Ireland for over 10 years. He is the most complete footballer in Ireland by some distance, it isn't even close IMO.
Since when has a MOM performance in major game become the mark of a truly great player? Connolly has been a great player for Dublin and delivered in many big games. If some people can't see that then you'd have to wonder what they are looking at.
Since forever.
Really, so one MOM performance in a major game marks you out as a great player while repeatedly performing does not?
I thought Connolly was a really good player, maybe not great, but the total roasting he got from the slaughtneil man in the club championship this year changed my mind, he got totally destroyed
Just to be clear, any player that is considered by some as great is definitely not great if he has a bad game in a club championship while being marked by another notable IC player?
I seem to be working off a different criteria to some others so can I just get this clear, to be a great player you must:
1. Never, ever, ever, play poorly in a club game, no matter who is marking you or how your teammates are playing?
2. You must have a MOM performance (I presume only the Sunday Game one counts) in a recent AND winning game?
3. A MOM in an AI club final doesn't count or a MOM in an AI semi final that you lose doesn't count either?
4. Having a disciplinary problem rules you out but Lee Keegan, sent off in an AI semi final and black carded in an AI final in the past 3 years, can still be regarded as the best player in Ireland?
How many great forwards do you know who let the man marking him from defence; score 4pts off him! I literally can only think of 1
If a defender scores a point it should be of no concern to the forward. Forwards should only be concerned about scoring.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 27, 2017, 08:39:40 PM
How many great forwards do you know who let the man marking him from defence; score 4pts off him! I literally can only think of 1
Again, that surely doesn't matter. If he was a great player before that game then that game changes nothing. The game has also changed remarkably. A half back is more likely to score more than a full forward these days.
Quote from: Zulu on April 28, 2017, 01:09:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 27, 2017, 08:39:40 PM
How many great forwards do you know who let the man marking him from defence; score 4pts off him! I literally can only think of 1
Again, that surely doesn't matter. If he was a great player before that game then that game changes nothing. The game has also changed remarkably. A half back is more likely to score more than a full forward these days.
That is so true,Zulu. And I don't think anyone planned it to be so.
The Dubs only scored 5 points from play in the drawn final last year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_rugby_league_and_rugby_union
The laws of rugby league football have been gradually changed with the aim of creating a faster,[16] more entertaining and spectator-friendly sport.[17] Player numbers were reduced to thirteen a side, creating more space for attacking play, and rucks and mauls were replaced with a play-the-ball restart.[1
Quote from: Zulu on April 28, 2017, 01:09:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 27, 2017, 08:39:40 PM
How many great forwards do you know who let the man marking him from defence; score 4pts off him! I literally can only think of 1
Again, that surely doesn't matter. If he was a great player before that game then that game changes nothing. The game has also changed remarkably. A half back is more likely to score more than a full forward these days.
Jesus.
I'm not surprised you don't understand the point being made.
Quote from: Zulu on April 29, 2017, 12:46:30 PM
I'm not surprised you don't understand the point being made.
No one does.
Quote from: Zulu on April 29, 2017, 12:46:30 PM
I'm not surprised you don't understand the point being made.
Correct
Quote from: Syferus on April 29, 2017, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 29, 2017, 12:46:30 PM
I'm not surprised you don't understand the point being made.
No one does.
Ah Syferus, don't lump the rest in with you. The majority here know something about football.
"A half back is more likely to score more than a full forward these days."
Still struggling to understand?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2017, 09:40:47 PM
My question is how has Connolly performed away from a home venue of Croke Park in the Championship? How does he play in away League semi finals and League finals. Does he find the travelling difficult and staying in Hotels during the Championship. How does he manage to get time off work to get to training? How does he always manage to overturn red cards? How many more times will he say that, that will be the last rush of blood? How many more times does he expect to get a free run in a game? How many times do the Dublin media expect him to get a free run in a game? How many solicitors does he have? How many shrinks does he have? How many times will he be the victim? How many times will he not live up to the hype? How many more people will come on here and say he is the best of his generation? How much longer can I listen to this?
Shall I send a collection of his best moments.
Most of them against Tyrone by the way
He's the best forward in the game currently.
Bow down and show your respect
The best forward in the game currently is Paul Geaney.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 29, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
The best forward in the game currently is Paul Geaney.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Syferus on April 29, 2017, 03:01:19 PM
"A half back is more likely to score more than a full forward these days."
It's becoming more and more like rugby
Thank God for hurling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDEMpr9cUmE
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2017, 04:25:25 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 29, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
The best forward in the game currently is Paul Geaney.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Were you as smiley when P Geaneys 0-8 went a long way to defeating Dublin in the recent league final? :-*
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 29, 2017, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2017, 04:25:25 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 29, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
The best forward in the game currently is Paul Geaney.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Were you as smiley when P Geaneys 0-8 went a long way to defeating Dublin in the recent league final? :-*
the league............... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 29, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
The best forward in the game currently is Paul Geaney.
Again, men aren't comparing like with like. Geaney is an out 'n out inside forward, whereas Connolly is not. Geaney may well be the best inside forward in the game at the minute, and Connolly the best half forward. Seems alot on here don't seem to like Connolly on a personal level, hence not rating him as highly as maybe they would otherwise
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2017, 08:35:16 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 29, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
The best forward in the game currently is Paul Geaney.
Again, men aren't comparing like with like. Geaney is an out 'n out inside forward, whereas Connolly is not. Geaney may well be the best inside forward in the game at the minute, and Connolly the best half forward. Seems alot on here don't seem to like Connolly on a personal level, hence not rating him as highly as maybe they would otherwise
In fairness Dr Jones said the best current forward and thats his opinion. The hype surrounding Connolly outweighs the so called dislike of him in my view..
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 29, 2017, 08:44:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2017, 08:35:16 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 29, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
The best forward in the game currently is Paul Geaney.
Again, men aren't comparing like with like. Geaney is an out 'n out inside forward, whereas Connolly is not. Geaney may well be the best inside forward in the game at the minute, and Connolly the best half forward. Seems alot on here don't seem to like Connolly on a personal level, hence not rating him as highly as maybe they would otherwise
In fairness Dr Jones said the best current forward and thats his opinion. The hype surrounding Connolly outweighs the so called dislike of him in my view..
Hype from, the media, Dublin fans? What has hype got to do with the man's ability with a football? Can men not form an opinion of a footballer without this hype you speak of being part of the equation?
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2017, 09:02:56 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 29, 2017, 08:44:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2017, 08:35:16 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 29, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
The best forward in the game currently is Paul Geaney.
Again, men aren't comparing like with like. Geaney is an out 'n out inside forward, whereas Connolly is not. Geaney may well be the best inside forward in the game at the minute, and Connolly the best half forward. Seems alot on here don't seem to like Connolly on a personal level, hence not rating him as highly as maybe they would otherwise
In fairness Dr Jones said the best current forward and thats his opinion. The hype surrounding Connolly outweighs the so called dislike of him in my view..
Hype from, the media, Dublin fans? What has hype got to do with the man's ability with a football? Can men not form an opinion on a footballer without this hype you speak of being part of the equation?
The same argument Dublin and Kerry lads use when claiming they don't get preferential refereeing decisions. Guess what - people are stupid and easily led.
Connolly is gifted. Powerful, direct, two footed. Great eye for a goal. Wonderful point scorer. However for me, he's behind some of the other greats because of his discipline problems. I know he gets treatment, but Canavan, Fitzgerald and Cooper would have been targeted too and never seemed to get the red mist like Connolly. No point being the best player if you're suspended or black carded.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 29, 2017, 09:15:53 PM
Connolly is gifted. Powerful, direct, two footed. Great eye for a goal. Wonderful point scorer. However for me, he's behind some of the other greats because of his discipline problems. I know he gets treatment, but Canavan, Fitzgerald and Cooper would have been targeted too and never seemed to get the red mist like Connolly. No point being the best player if you're suspended or black carded.
It's the difference between the most talented footballer (even then a question mark with Connolly) and the best footballer. You can make the case for the former but not the later.
Is that a joke? Canavan got the red mist on countless occasions.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 29, 2017, 10:19:00 PM
Is that a joke? Canavan got the red mist on countless occasions.
Countless?? Ok , 5 please?
Haven't read the 9 pages sorry but Paddy Bradley???? Gifted? Certainly!!! Top forward last 49.years bow wow Betsy!!!
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on April 29, 2017, 11:39:15 PM
Haven't read the 9 pages sorry but Paddy Bradley???? Gifted? Certainly!!! Top forward last 49.years bow wow Betsy!!!
Revisit tomorrow in the cold light of day ;)