Sad news coming out of Mayo this morning. Coast Guard helicopter went down with 4 crew. 1, the captain, was pulled out of the water but died in hospital. The remaining 3 crewmembers are missing. They are such brave, brave people and have the height of my respect for what they do. Please God there'll be a happy outcome for the other three, but it doesn't look good.
http://www.newstalk.com/Coast-Guard-captain-dies-after-being-recovered-from-water (http://www.newstalk.com/Coast-Guard-captain-dies-after-being-recovered-from-water)
thats awful ..
Terrible news. Hopefully the other 3 will be ok... but as you say, not looking likely at this stage. :'(
The word hero is used alot nowadays but it should be reserved especially for people like these brave men and women who risk everything to go out in all extremes to save those in difficulty along our coast. Paying the ultimate price for the safety of others . These guys are the real heros.
Tragic stuff
Indeed, and like the rescue volunteer Caitríona Lucas who died last year, these people go out in conditions when everyone else is advised to stay in.
I always think of this song with regard to the Coastguard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI3xtoO-TnE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI3xtoO-TnE)
Along with being a personal tragedy for those killed and their families it's a savage blow for the country with the loss of one of these helicopters. How many more lives will be at risk due to the loss of 20% of the fleet? There are only 5 of them I believe and presumably we can't just procure one in a hurry..
Quote from: Boycey on March 14, 2017, 05:06:12 PM
Along with being a personal tragedy for those killed and their families it's a savage blow for the country with the loss of one of these helicopters. How many more lives will be at risk due to the loss of 20% of the fleet? There are only 5 of them I believe and presumably we can't just procure one in a hurry..
There's 4 active and 1 spare apparently.
Replacing a bit of metal is easy. Replacing an experienced rescue crew is the real tragedy.
Absolutely terrible tragedy. Without the bravery of these people and many like them we'd have an even more dysfunctional society yet their contributions are underrewarded. RIP to all.
RIP to all of them.
Quote from: Syferus on March 14, 2017, 06:15:27 PM
Replacing a bit of metal is easy. Replacing an experienced rescue crew is the real tragedy.
+1
Horrible tragedy. Hopefully they rest of the crew are found soon enough.
Very brave people working in those conditions and helicopters are f**king death traps too. Coming back to refuel so hopefully didn't run out of fuel.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2017, 08:34:43 PM
Very brave people working in those conditions and helicopters are f**king death traps too. Coming back to refuel so hopefully didn't run out of fuel.
There was no Mayday issued, presumably they have an emergency tank or the like and would have issued a call if it was on fumes.
Heartbreaking. True heroes.
I was in hospital in Galway a few years ago and always remember the sound of the helicopter bringing people in, saving lives.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 14, 2017, 08:37:25 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2017, 08:34:43 PM
Very brave people working in those conditions and helicopters are f**king death traps too. Coming back to refuel so hopefully didn't run out of fuel.
There was no Mayday issued, presumably they have an emergency tank or the like and would have issued a call if it was on fumes.
Brutal stuff. I know a few lads on the rigs in the North Sea and they post regularly on Facebook that the worst part of their job is the flight there and back.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2017, 08:34:43 PM
Very brave people working in those conditions and helicopters are f**king death traps too. Coming back to refuel so hopefully didn't run out of fuel.
The helicopter was three years old. Don't know how you came to that conclusion. And they were only topping up fuel to maximise the time they could spend on the operation.
My thoughts are with the families and colleagues of these brave,brave men and women
Dreadful news, thoughts with the families and friends of all connected.
Awful news, RIP
Apparently they came from Dublin and had refuelled in Belmullet before going out, no mayday and it wasn't a bad nite, we'll probably never know but it could just be a sad accident
Thoughts are with the fisherman they went out to rescue, hard thing to have to live with
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 14, 2017, 10:10:47 PM
Apparently they came from Dublin and had refuelled in Belmullet before going out, no mayday and it wasn't a bad nite, we'll probably never know but it could just be a sad accident
These helicopters are designed for scenarios where there might be problems, the lack of emergency beacons etc is rather puzzling.
A terrible tragedy to befall those who were so used to rescuing people in danger.
RIP
Jesus Journalists do my head in sometimes
Mystery surrounds crash at sea as Coast Guard helicopter tragedy 'unlikely to have been caused by mechanical fault' is the headline
Robin Schiller
March 15 2017 2:30 AM
The families of three missing Coast Guard helicopter crew are praying that they will be found after a tragedy that left a "dark cloud over Ireland".
A full-scale search will continue this morning for the members who went missing after the helicopter they were travelling in crashed near Blacksod on the Mayo coast.
One crew member, Captain Dara Fitzpatrick (45), was recovered early yesterday morning. The experienced pilot was transferred to hospital in a critical condition, but she was later pronounced dead.
The three other missing people are father-of-three Ciaran Smith (38), from Oldtown in north county Dublin; Mark Duffy, a father-of-two from Co Louth, and experienced winchman Paul Ormsby.
Rescue 116 and its crew had travelled from Dublin to the west of Ireland to assist another Coast Guard helicopter when the incident occurred at around 1am. Coast Guard sources said there was no evidence that the crew of the stricken helicopter had attempted to send a mayday call. This would suggest that whatever happened, the crash was unlikely to have been caused by a mechanical fault.But the sources stressed that it was too early in the investigation to speculate on the cause.
Isn't that what your doing by your headline - speculating?
The Dublin-based crew had been providing top cover for another Coast Guard helicopter, Rescue 118, that was performing a medical evacuation off the coast of Mayo.
Rescue 116 was returning to base when it fell out of contact. A search operation got under way and a large amount of debris was found.
Members of the Irish Coast Guard were involved in a search operation to find the three missing men throughout yesterday, and were helped by the RNLI, the Air Corps, the Defence Forces, as well as local fishing vessels.
Families of the missing crew members gathered at the lighthouse in Blacksod, Co Mayo, shortly after 6pm yesterday, where they met rescue workers involved in the search for their loved ones.
Gerard O'Flynn, VS&T operations manager of the Irish Coast Guard, said that the search would be scaled down overnight and resume this morning.
"The search will continue, albeit at a reduced level. Recovery of debris has been a feature of the search all day, I think you saw a bigger piece come in there and that's all part of your Accident Investigation Unit and will be all taken into storage.
"Unfortunately, with the passage of time, the level of hope does go down - but you never know, pilots are exceptionally well-trained people, they're exceptionally physically fit.
"So you know, you hang on to a thread of hope, but you have to be fearful that with the passage of time that the chances of people surviving is reducing."
He had earlier confirmed that Capt Fitzpatrick had been pronounced dead in hospital. She was one of very few female civilian rescue pilots worldwide.
She had more than 20 years' flying experience and was chief pilot in Waterford since 2002. She described her job as "challenging and exciting" during the filming of the 'Rescue 117' documentary for RTÉ. "Dara was the most senior pilot and has been with the company for close on 20 years. For all of us involved in the Coast Guard, and for particularly her family, it has come as a complete shock," Mr O'Flynn said.
Her sister, Niamh Fitzpatrick, also paid tribute. "My brave sister Capt Dara Fitzpatrick lost her life in Rescue 116 crash.
"We are devastated. Please pray for recovery of three remaining crew," Ms Fitzpatrick wrote on social media.
Meanwhile, Mark Dearey, the chairman of Dundalk Municipal District, who knows Mark Duffy and his wider family, said they were "hoping against hope".
As the search progressed, the LÉ Róisín carried a large amount of debris to near the coastline, where it was met by smaller trawlers who brought the objects to shore.
However, the recovery of the flight recorders, or the black box, will be crucial to determine what happened.
Speaking in Washington, Taoiseach Enda Kenny extended the "deepest sympathy" of the Government to the family of Capt Fitzpatrick.
Mr Kenny said he knew the area of the Mayo coast where Rescue 116 went down well.
"It is striking that on a bright spring day, such a dark cloud hangs over Ireland," he said.
President Michael D Higgins said: "Today marks a dark day in the history of the Coast Guard."
Irish Independent
Seems that because of a loss of personnel the Air Corps were unable to give support when requested, meaning that the helicopter from Dublin had to come to provide the assistance. Who's the Minister for Defence and where is he at this sad time? Over playing the leprechaun (in fairness he's good at that at least) rather than dealing with issues that impact real people. How do these people sleep at night?
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 16, 2017, 02:11:39 PM
Seems that because of a loss of personnel the Air Corps were unable to give support when requested, meaning that the helicopter from Dublin had to come to provide the assistance. Who's the Minister for Defence and where is he at this sad time? Over playing the leprechaun (in fairness he's good at that at least) rather than dealing with issues that impact real people. How do these people sleep at night?
You really think Enda will fly back?
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 16, 2017, 02:11:39 PM
Seems that because of a loss of personnel the Air Corps were unable to give support when requested, meaning that the helicopter from Dublin had to come to provide the assistance. Who's the Minister for Defence and where is he at this sad time? Over playing the leprechaun (in fairness he's good at that at least) rather than dealing with issues that impact real people. How do these people sleep at night?
I saw that seanie, but to be fair they fly missions like this all the time, so I just think it's shit bad luck.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 16, 2017, 02:22:51 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 16, 2017, 02:11:39 PM
Seems that because of a loss of personnel the Air Corps were unable to give support when requested, meaning that the helicopter from Dublin had to come to provide the assistance. Who's the Minister for Defence and where is he at this sad time? Over playing the leprechaun (in fairness he's good at that at least) rather than dealing with issues that impact real people. How do these people sleep at night?
I saw that seanie, but to be fair they fly missions like this all the time, so I just think it's shit bad luck.
Bad luck - that's not good enough for me to be honest.
When you under resource important stuff (while simultaneously wasting or throwing away money on other things) and bad things happen I think a large proportion of the blame must be taken by the decision makers. NAMA/Project Eagle is this weeks example of hundreds of millions down the drain and as always, no one is accountable. In the UK this week the number 2 in the Bank of England resigned over not declaring that her brother worked for Barclays, a bank the BoE regulate. Not a hope would she have had to resign over here. We accept bullshit far too easily here and its the cornerstone of our problems.
And why don't we have a proper minister for this, not the Taoiseach supposedly looking after it? The stuff the defence forces do is important and they should be resourced to do more.
Hang on. Why do you think this crash happened? Because it was a Coast Guard helicopter instead of an Air Corps one? Who's to say the Air Corps aircraft wouldn't have met the same fate? Who can tell any of this, other than fate and/or luck? It's not as if they went up in an aircraft that wasn't suitable for the task.. sure they fly these sort of missions all the time.
I'm all for kicking Enda Kenny around, and the stupid cuts made but this strikes me as a bit tenuous, and opportunism if you don't mind me saying so.
I also see the page is now taken down, I wonder are some facts being double checked?
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/loss-of-experienced-personnel-in-defence-forces-meant-rescue-116-was-sent-on-illfated-mission-instead-35536497.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/loss-of-experienced-personnel-in-defence-forces-meant-rescue-116-was-sent-on-illfated-mission-instead-35536497.html)
https://www.rt.com/news/373206-sikorsky-s92-helicopters-grounded/ (https://www.rt.com/news/373206-sikorsky-s92-helicopters-grounded/)
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 16, 2017, 03:01:53 PM
Hang on. Why do you think this crash happened? Because it was a Coast Guard helicopter instead of an Air Corps one? Who's to say the Air Corps aircraft wouldn't have met the same fate? Who can tell any of this, other than fate and/or luck? It's not as if they went up in an aircraft that wasn't suitable for the task.. sure they fly these sort of missions all the time.
I'm all for kicking Enda Kenny around, and the stupid cuts made but this strikes me as a bit tenuous, and opportunism if you don't mind me saying so.
I do mind you saying so. I think that's a bit unfair.
As for your following posts about checking the facts - I saw Kenny himself, resplendent in his green tie, comment on that and confirm the situation on RTE News Now earlier. For what that's worth.
I often look back to when I was choosing between fixed and rotary wing training. Still wish I had done the rotary but my decision was made on family grounds.
Choppers are not death traps as someone alluded to, because if they were, they'd never be used. Here in Perth we have two search and rescue Hueys and the police have a Dauphin and a Kawasaki.
That there was no mayday call suggests either the pilot suffered from the effects of somatographic illusion where she got confused in the ambient black night conditions but I would suggest that is highly improbable based on her experience; fuel starvation which I would find extremely unlikely due, again, to her experience; or a catastrophic systems failure (electrical/fuel/mechanical/structural) one of which may have instigated one or more of the others.
Either way, a sad occasion for us all.
Apologies. I know you're not trying to be opportunistic. Poor choice of words on my behalf. I just think that it's not the right time to be highlighting stuff like this. The implication being that the Coast Guard helicopter shouldn't have been there, and if it wasn't it wouldn't have crashed. That makes it sound like they were doing something they weren't trained or prepared for, and that's not the case as far as I can tell.
IF it turns out that the Coast Guard is not trained, prepared or competent in this sort of support mission, then absolutely it is a national disgrace and a scandal.
If however, this is just a tactical decision about deployment of resources, based on a long standing way of working, then this is simply a tragic accident in the line of duty.
Yes but why would the Air Corps have been the first option (obviously preferable)?
It's probably not the time for the discussion alright.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 16, 2017, 03:35:07 PM
Apologies. I know you're not trying to be opportunistic. Poor choice of words on my behalf. I just think that it's not the right time to be highlighting stuff like this. The implication being that the Coast Guard helicopter shouldn't have been there, and if it wasn't it wouldn't have crashed. That makes it sound like they were doing something they weren't trained or prepared for, and that's not the case as far as I can tell.
The only implication is that if they hadn't gone they wouldn't be there. As a coastguard helicopter with a very experienced pilot this is what they do.
QuoteIF it turns out that the Coast Guard is not trained, prepared or competent in this sort of support mission, then absolutely it is a national disgrace and a scandal.
This provides no evidence for such a contention. At the point of the crash all they had to do was fly from Dublin to Blacksod and refuel.
QuoteIf however, this is just a tactical decision about deployment of resources, based on a long standing way of working, then this is simply a tragic accident in the line of duty.
The fixed wing aircraft may have had some advantages and the helicopter could have remained on the East Coast in the case of another call.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2017, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 16, 2017, 03:35:07 PM
Apologies. I know you're not trying to be opportunistic. Poor choice of words on my behalf. I just think that it's not the right time to be highlighting stuff like this. The implication being that the Coast Guard helicopter shouldn't have been there, and if it wasn't it wouldn't have crashed. That makes it sound like they were doing something they weren't trained or prepared for, and that's not the case as far as I can tell.
The only implication is that if they hadn't gone they wouldn't be there. As a coastguard helicopter with a very experienced pilot this is what they do.
QuoteIF it turns out that the Coast Guard is not trained, prepared or competent in this sort of support mission, then absolutely it is a national disgrace and a scandal.
This provides no evidence for such a contention. At the point of the crash all they had to do was fly from Dublin to Blacksod and refuel.
QuoteIf however, this is just a tactical decision about deployment of resources, based on a long standing way of working, then this is simply a tragic accident in the line of duty.
The fixed wing aircraft may have had some advantages and the helicopter could have remained on the East Coast in the case of another call.
Exactly my point.. They weren't being asked to do anything, as far as I am aware, that they were untrained, unable, or not expecting to have to do.
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 16, 2017, 03:44:42 PM
Yes but why would the Air Corps have been the first option (obviously preferable)?
It's probably not the time for the discussion alright.
Who knows what the operational process is? I certainly don't. But as far as I am concerned, then if the helicopter was not being asked to do anything it wouldn't expect to have to do, then I don't think the issue of budget cuts (which is a very valid issue) is necessarily a contributing factor in this crash.
It may be that a fixed wing is preferable for this type of observation work, while a rotary is better at getting in and out close to the water for extractions etc, and typically the chopper does the wet work while the fixed wing stays high. But if no fixed wing is available, there's nothing that says a helicopter can't do the same job.
Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf
they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2017, 10:55:10 PM
Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf
they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.
Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 14, 2017, 04:33:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2017, 10:55:10 PM
Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf
they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.
Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying
It's actually outrageous. Nothing will bring these brave people back but it seems these people were sent out to do their job without the correct support from the state. Shameful.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 14, 2017, 10:54:21 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 14, 2017, 04:33:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2017, 10:55:10 PM
Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf
they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.
Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying
It's actually outrageous. Nothing will bring these brave people back but it seems these people were sent out to do their job without the correct support from the state. Shameful.
I don't think you can blame the state for this one Seanie. The state didn't create the navigation system or maintain the database of obstacles.
Quote from: Tubberman on April 14, 2017, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 14, 2017, 10:54:21 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 14, 2017, 04:33:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2017, 10:55:10 PM
Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf
they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.
Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying
It's actually outrageous. Nothing will bring these brave people back but it seems these people were sent out to do their job without the correct support from the state. Shameful.
I don't think you can blame the state for this one Seanie. The state didn't create the navigation system or maintain the database of obstacles.
The Coastguard helicopter service is outsourced to intl operators who do this type of work in many places. You would imagine that as this rock is near their refuelling location that they might have a flight path identified to Blacksod that would have avoided the risk. Mire will come out in time.
The aircraft was on auto pilot. Reports say that in the back seats one of the crew has a night vision camera in front of him and could see something was not right from this.
He told the pilots to veer right direction. Soon after he issued it again. By the sounds of it they only had 13s to act from when he first spotted this. Makes you wonder why this gadget isn't also in the front along with the pilots?
Awful tradegy.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 14, 2017, 10:54:21 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 14, 2017, 04:33:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2017, 10:55:10 PM
Preliminary report now issued
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/preliminary-report-2017-006.pdf
they seem to have crashed into Black Rock, but why is still open to question.
Appears that the island and lighthouse weren't properly included in obstacle warnings on the computer system
Very worrying
It's actually outrageous. Nothing will bring these brave people back but it seems these people were sent out to do their job without the correct support from the state. Shameful.
::) ::)
Ffs you'll be blaming them for the amount of rain falling in Longford next.