Im only new to this so thought i would try and get something started...
QuoteArmagh for me are the great testament to that.
"They kept plugging away and trusted themselves in what they were doing and they are probably, over the last 30 years, one of the most consistent teams that have been playing gaelic football."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/6630517.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/6630517.stm)
they are probably, over the last 30 years, one of the most consistent teams that have been playing gaelic football."
Well certainly since 1999 anway not 30 but eh 8 years. How clued in is Ross.
Most consistent team over the last 30 years, how on Earth did he come to that conclusion?
Surely 30 years means 1978 - 2007
Were where Aramagh between the late 1970's & late 1990's, thats 20 years were Roscommon & Offaly where more consisitent.
Surely Kerry is the most consistent team of the last 30 years, bar an 11 year break.
Dublin had the late '70s and early '90s & average again
Tyrone where good in the late 80's, late '90s & '00s.
Mayo has probably been the most consistent team of 96-07they where also alright in the late 80's
Down where good in the early 90's
How can we forget Meath good or descent from mid 1980's to Turn of the Century.
Cork was good in the mid 80's & early 90's made a Final again in 1999
Galway where good from late 90's to early 00's
Quote from: Fishead_Sam on May 07, 2007, 02:16:39 PM
Most consistent team over the last 30 years, how on Earth did he come to that conclusion?
He didn't say "Most consistent team" he said "they are probably, over the last 30 years, one of the most consistent teams".
"Probably" and "one of" is fairly vague and meaningless.
In yesterdays Sunday Tribune Kierann Shannon rated Amaghs 6 Ulster titles and 1 Sam as a better achievmemt than Tyrones 2 Ulsters and 2 Sam s. What do you guys think ?.
Quote from: johnpower on May 07, 2007, 02:27:34 PM
In yesterdays Sunday Tribune Kierann Shannon rated Amaghs 6 Ulster titles and 1 Sam as a better achievmemt than Tyrones 2 Ulsters and 2 Sam s. What do you guys think ?.
Most of Armagh would disagree with that too I'm sure.
Can anyone put The Tribune article up?
Quote from: ziggysego on May 07, 2007, 02:50:51 PM
Quote from: johnpower on May 07, 2007, 02:27:34 PM
In yesterdays Sunday Tribune Kierann Shannon rated Amaghs 6 Ulster titles and 1 Sam as a better achievmemt than Tyrones 2 Ulsters and 2 Sam s. What do you guys think ?.
Most of Armagh would disagree with that too I'm sure.
No I'd take 6 ulsters and one sam over 2 ulsters and 2 sams.
Six Ulsters and one All-Ireland is mightily impressive, Tyrone's record might be slightly better but it's arguable. Armagh have always treated Ulster the way it should be, in my opinion their record is just slightly lesser than Tyrone's.
Ross is talking nonsense though BTW
i think his words have been misconceived here. i dont think he means armagh as a county have been consistent over 30 years. im pretty sure he means this current team as in the mcgeeney, mcgrane and mcconnville era have been the most consistant team of players of the last 30 years. i agree.
i would trade all those ulster titles for another all-ireland anyone who argues otherwise is ridiculous.
I dont think he really knows what he is saying. He rambles in large parts of the interview. Very strange
Quotei would trade all those ulster titles for another all-ireland anyone who argues otherwise is ridiculous.
So anyone that disagrees with you is "ridiculous". That's a great line of argument ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 07, 2007, 02:57:18 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on May 07, 2007, 02:50:51 PM
Quote from: johnpower on May 07, 2007, 02:27:34 PM
In yesterdays Sunday Tribune Kierann Shannon rated Amaghs 6 Ulster titles and 1 Sam as a better achievmemt than Tyrones 2 Ulsters and 2 Sam s. What do you guys think ?.
Most of Armagh would disagree with that too I'm sure.
No I'd take 6 ulsters and one sam over 2 ulsters and 2 sams.
I agree with POG here.. Some would argue that its been harder to win an ulster in the past few years than an all ireland.. this is evident in Armaghs case anyway... by the time they come out of their province they are Fu*ked!
how can you be happy with a bunch of ulster titles when we clearly failed to pick up at least one other all-ireland that we were clearly capapble of getting
better a pint measure in a half pint glass than a half pint measure in a pint glass school of thought interesting.
I take it Tyrones 2 national league titles to Armaghs one and the 95/96 ulster championships are also spun to the dustbin by this reckonming too.
Agh Rosie there are none so blind as those who choose not to see,,,d possibly because of their own long grass.
I agree with POG here.. Some would argue that its been harder to win an ulster in the past few years than an all ireland.. this is evident in Armaghs case anyway... by the time they come out of their province they are Fu*ked! certainly one excuse for not having the quality to win national titles, a lame one.
Quotehow can you be happy with a bunch of ulster titles when we clearly failed to pick up at least one other all-ireland that we were clearly capapble of getting
Because 6 Ulster titles and one Sam since 1999 is an incredible achievement, much greater than having one good year and winning Sam.
Question for Pint of Guinness.
List all the years Armagh won the Ulster championship, in the unlikely event you dont have it tatooed on your arm then look it up on a website.
List all the years Armagh won national titles. a lot easier a lot more memorial and a bigger achievement to boot.
Quote from: shitzroy on May 07, 2007, 03:17:40 PM
how can you be happy with a bunch of ulster titles when we clearly failed to pick up at least one other all-ireland that we were clearly capapble of getting
How can you not... when you consider the effort players and managers put in its unbelievable in this and age..to sustain that level of performance and commitment for nearly 10 years is a credit to everyone involved..
I don't get your point realredhandfan.
I'd have no trouble listing the ulster title wins, I remember every one.
Armaghs achivements in winning so may Ulster cups are set in an era where every other Ulster county was loking at the bigger period, Whilst Armagh were winning Ulster champsionships Tyrone won 2 all Irelands, Derry (2)/ fermanagh made ai semifinals their achievement is probably worth more in them particular years. Tyrone won an ulster in 2000 and were bate out the door in the ai quarter final by Derry, I considered that year to be one of underachievement.
The other Ulster counties weren't looking at the "bigger period" in 1999 or 2000. Even after that, are you seriously trying to suggest that the other Ulster counties weren't interested in the ulster championship?
It's strange that your own county place so much emphasis on the McKenna cup yet aren't interested in the Ulster Championship?
Why argue over which is the biggest achievments.
POG believes it the multiple Ulster titles over a short period of time, whereas RRHF believes it's two All Ireland's in three years.
Surely it's a matter for your own personal belief.
Personally I think Armagh's achievements are nothing to be sneezed at and that they were just unlucky not to get that second All Ireland, which was them. However, I believe that Tyrone's 2 in 3 is greater. Then again, I am biased. If I was bored across the Blackwater, I would probably share POG's view.
Quote from: realredhandfan on May 07, 2007, 03:54:42 PM
Armaghs achivements in winning so may Ulster cups are set in an era where every other Ulster county was loking at the bigger period, Whilst Armagh were winning Ulster champsionships Tyrone won 2 all Irelands, Derry (2)/ fermanagh made ai semifinals their achievement is probably worth more in them particular years. Tyrone won an ulster in 2000 and were bate out the door in the ai quarter final by Derry, I considered that year to be one of underachievement.
More like an era were other time not just in ulster but ireland strived to reach armaghs standards both on and off the field of play and the only team that has done so to date has been tyrone and kerry so too say that those other teams were looking at the bigger picture (i presume u meant to write that) is bullsh*t, if your knocked out of your province you have to look at the bigger picture of the all ireland as its all you have to play 4!!
QuoteNo I'd take 6 ulsters and one sam over 2 ulsters and 2 sams.
Then again you don't have much choice pint :P
I thinks it's best summed up by Joe Kernans words when he said that Armagh would need to win another all-ireland to be considered a great team. No mention of Ulster titles from large Joseph.
Quote
I thinks it's best summed up by Joe Kernans words when he said that Armagh would need to win another all-ireland to be considered a great team. No mention of Ulster titles from large Joseph.
I dont see what that has to do with the subject we're discussing.
I can seewhere your coming from Pint, dominating Ulster and picking up them titles should whet Armaghs appetite after many a lean year.
However I agree with Shitzroy, The All Ireland is the what Armagh set out to achieve in these years and the fact only one was achieved would surely cause heart ache amongst them. I am forever grateful for all them Ulster titles, but with the talented players we have had recently, it should defientely read 6 Ulsters and 2 Sams.
Ziggys right its all about where you are coming from and looking to get to. This year i would love to see Tyrone win an All Ireland. then uLster. But I would love to win them both. Armaghs achievements are momentus, but i believe not to be compared with Tyrones (totally different) because Tyrone have had their periods in the 90s and 80s of ulster championship dominance and won f/a of national significance. These years its all about the all irelands. Its almost like a loss of innocence when ambitions are too high all the time - not neccessarily a good thing.
Quote from: Bainisteoir on May 07, 2007, 03:17:13 PM
I agree with POG here.. Some would argue that its been harder to win an ulster in the past few years than an all ireland.. this is evident in Armaghs case anyway... by the time they come out of their province they are Fu*ked!
I think in 2005 tyrone played 11 games in order to win the all-ireland, correct me if im wrong? i Think that would be much more draining than winning any ulster.
Armagh's achievements are excellent for a relatively small county, I for one don't feel the need to compare any achievements against Tyrone's, they deserve great credit for what they have achieved also. Armagh's achievements should be compared to what we achieved previous to '99. 1 AI, 1 NFL and 6 Ulster's in 7 seasons is an amazing return in the modern era for any county (outside of Kerry), there will always be the feeling that another one or two got away; I think we have enough emerging talent to be a force for a fair while yet.
this is a very petty argument. both teams have been a credit to ulster for the past 7/8 years now, they have set a new standard in gaelic football (despite what pat might say about them).
however, i do think that i would regard tyrone as more successful. i would safely say that if you asked all the armagh players they would trade all the ulster medals they have for another celtic cross. i know i would definitely give up all the ulsters down have ever had for another all ireland.
Tyrone one Sam twice, we won Sam once, frig the Ulster titles, the object of the exercise is to win the AI and that is the measuring stick. Winning Ulster nowadays is a hindrance and is becoming less and less important............dont even get me started on league titles.
The big boys set out at the start of the year to win the all ireland not their province. Id say nearly every Armagh supporter would rather have 2 sams than 6 ulsters. Id definately take Tyrones record over the last 10 years compared to Armaghs. I also believe Tyrones achievements at national level at under age should be considered. When many of the Armaagh boys were winning there ulsters many of the current Tyrone team were winning underage all irelands. Think the two counties records at national level over the last ten years reads something like this:
All Ireland Seniors: 2-1 Tyrone
National Leagues: 2-1 Tyrone
All Ireland u21's: 2-1 Tyrone
All Ireland Minor: 3-0 Tyrone
QuoteI think in 2005 tyrone played 11 games in order to win the all-ireland, correct me if im wrong?
Close - 10 games
At the end of the day, those six Ulster Championships tell us that Armagh were the best bar none in the province in each of those years. As far as I know and assuming Fishhead Sam hasn't moved it, Tyrone are an Ulster team and the records will show there's been only one team in Ulster worth talking about and it ain't them. Never mind the Ulster Championship being devalued by the qualifier system, the one that has been devalued is the Sam Maguire – unless of course you win him unbeaten.
QuoteTyrone are an Ulster team and the records will show there's been only one team in Ulster worth talking about and it ain't them
What a load of tripe. History will show that the Tyrone are only the 3rd Ulster team to achieve greatness in the modern game, the Down teams of the 60's and 90's being the other 2. The Armagh team will be remembered like Donegal & Derry with a solitary all-ireland to show for their efforts.
Provincial titles are not talked about beyond the border of your own county. When people mention Cavan its in terms of them winning 5 Senior All Irelands, not because they've won 39 Ulster titles.
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 07, 2007, 08:55:20 PM
QuoteTyrone are an Ulster team and the records will show there's been only one team in Ulster worth talking about and it ain't them
What a load of tripe. History will show that the Tyrone are only the 3rd Ulster team to achieve greatness, the Down teams of the 60's and 90's being the other 2. The Armagh team will be remembered like Donegal & Derry with a solitary all-ireland to show for their efforts.
Provincial titles are not talked about beyond the border of your own county. When people mention Cavan its in terms of them winning 5 Senior All Irelands, not because they've won 39 Ulster titles.
Why did you modify your post OTB? :D
The Armagh team will also be remembered for arse whipping Tyrone in 2005 Ulster final - wasn't that the year you won Sam?
Greatness my hole...
QuoteThe Armagh team will also be remembered for arse whipping Tyrone in 2005 Ulster final - wasn't that the year you won Sam?
That very statement proves how much sh*t you talk.
Quote from: Donagh on May 07, 2007, 09:15:35 PM
The Armagh team will also be remembered for arse whipping Tyrone in 2005 Ulster final - wasn't that the year you won Sam?
I don't think Armagh will remembered for that. I spoke to Armagh fans after that game and they were salt of the earth. Saying how lucky they were, having escaping a defeat the week before.
I'll remember Armagh as the team we beat to win our first All-Ireland Final
QuoteI don't think Armagh will remembered for that. I spoke to Armagh fans after that game and they were salt of the earth. Saying how lucky they were, having escaping a defeat the week before.
I think Donagh has been a member of the Buckfast Army for too long Zig. Brain-cells not quite up to logical thought.
Ah come on now lads. Yez have one AI unbeaten and another after getting beat by an Ulster team. Hardly the mark of greatness...
Well I don't need you to tell me if Tyrone's wins are great or not.
Quote from: ziggysego on May 07, 2007, 09:40:08 PM
Well I don't need you to tell me if Tyrone's wins are great or not.
Ye what?
In relation to the topic of the thread- Being Consistency and not an Armagh V Tyrone debate...... Why doesnt someone if they can be arsed go through the past 8-10 years championship results between tyrone armagh and kerry and it will work out who has been the most consistant- ie how many championship losses, wins etc... Only a suggestion
QuoteWhat a load of tripe. History will show that the Tyrone are only the 3rd Ulster team to achieve greatness in the modern game, the Down teams of the 60's and 90's being the other 2.
:D
A team that wins one sam and another after getting a second chance at it, through the back door is not a great team I'm afraid. A good one yes, not a great one. Get a grip!
Quote
In relation to the topic of the thread- Being Consistency and not an Armagh V Tyrone debate...... Why doesnt someone if they can be arsed go through the past 8-10 years championship results between tyrone armagh and kerry and it will work out who has been the most consistant- ie how many championship losses, wins etc... Only a suggestion
I don't think you need to go through results to find who was most consistent between armagh and tryone.
You can't compare a munster team to an ulster team on those terms either.
fair enough point about kerry didnt consider that....... narrow it done to Armagh and Tyrone... i wanted to avoid the same old shit being said about armagh and tyrone but statistics are better than opinions...
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 07, 2007, 09:27:51 PM
I'll remember Armagh as the team we beat to win our first All-Ireland Final
And I remember Tyrone as the team we had to show how to win an AI. ;)
But stew - nothing will be as sweet as that day in September 2003
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 07, 2007, 11:23:14 PM
But stew - nothing will be as sweet as that day in September 2003
Considering ye only beat one team from outside Ulster that year, I suppose it could be looked upon as the equivalent of two Anglo-Celts.
last years provincial winners in Munster Cork - yes it was Cork havent even been mentioned since Kerry won the ai. Neither does it be mentioned that Mayo won connaught - In general people refer to the Kerry / Down / Galway teams as being great. Galway won their 2nd through the back door and Kerry have done the same. Nobody once tainted Kerrys ai win last year as being substandard, I dont think.
Most consistant team in the last 30 years (1976 - 2006)
78,79,80,81,84,85,86,97,00,04,06
11 All Ireland titles in 30 years
82,02,05
3 finals lost in the same period
Kerry played in 14 All Ireland Finals in 30 years. The facts speak for themselves KERRY are the most consistant
Pack of F**king kids the lot of ye back at this cr@p again.
And then ye wonder why other members of the board cant stand Tyrone and Armagh posters.
Who gives a **** which is better?
Real Mathematics
2 AI=6 USFC? Prove?
Catch a grip lads and think when ye open yer mouth (fingers) that ye respresent yer county in here and will be judged accordingly.
Ah wind yer neck in, it's only a bit of craic ffs...
Armagh's record in Ulster is definitely impressive. But the Ulster championship is not what it once was either.
Since 99 only 2 counties have won it Armagh (99,00,02,04,05,06) Tyrone (01,03).
Teams now not risking players in the provincial championship in case it would knock them out later on. (Caravan warmed up in '02 before sitting down when Armagh goaled).
Personally I would rather have the All-Irelands than the provincial titles, I certainly didn't care that we lost Munster went we won Sam last September.
Think Armagh have been consistent but definitely not the most consistent team in Ireland over the last 30 years.
IMO the provincial championships will continue to reduce in importance until something is done to really incentive winning the title.
When the back door was first introduced in 2001 provincial winners were guaranteed a home venue in the All-Ireland quarter finals.
This was changed to neutral venues in the province later on but I feel it should revert back to the original idea.
The proposal may reduce the games in Croke park but provincial venues would be rocking with such games.
If a county doesn't have a ground big enough to hold such a game then the can move it to a neighbouring county which has.
Last years All-Ireland QF line up might have had different outcomes:
Crossmaglen/Clones Armagh v Kerry
Cork: Cork v Donegal
Castlebar: Mayo v Laois
Croke Park: Dublin v Westmeath
2005
Killarney: Kerry v Mayo
Crossmaglen/Clones Armagh v Laois
Croke Park: Dublin v Tyrone
Galway: Galway v Cork.
What is the view like up there Fizzman
Bad weekend, had you
Chill out & relax man 8)
Think we can now draw a conclusion on the arguement. Armagh have been a more consistent team than Tyrone over the last decade. However Tyrone can play to a higher level and on their day are a better team. Ill settle for that.
QuoteI don't think you need to go through results to find who was most consistent between armagh and tryone.
You can't compare a munster team to an ulster team on those terms either.
Quotefair enough point about kerry didnt consider that....... narrow it done to Armagh and Tyrone... i wanted to avoid the same old shit being said about armagh and tyrone but statistics are better than opinions...
What are we debating here ..most consistent within your province or most consistent overall ? Since we dont compete in Ulster dont you think its a tad self-serving to exclude Kerry on the basis of Ulster being a "harder" province.
Since the back door Kerry have appeared in every semi-final (6) , 4 finals and won 2. As for what happens before the quarters..who cares ? if you cant get to the quarters with 2 cracks at the whip then you are probably not AI winning material anyway.
Then if you go back to before the qualifiers and still in the last 15 years Kerry have 2 further AI compared to zero (between them !) for Tyrone and Armagh...and thats during Ulsters "golden years"
If you go back the 30 years the original post referred to then its even more of a non contest.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 08, 2007, 09:37:06 PM
If you go back the 30 years the original post referred to then its even more of a non contest.
Er.... yeah, Kerry.