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GAA Outrageous direct debit demands on club team to pay manager show the GAA has lost all control
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SHARES
Outrageous direct debit demands on club team to pay manager show the GAA has lost all control
BY CONAN DOHERTY
A player from a hurling club in Ulster has contacted SportsJOE to reveal staggering new demands placed on the senior men's team.
As most teams will do at this time of the year, this side got together for their first meeting and were introduced to the new manager who has come from a neighbouring county.
Already in 2017, we've seen some secrets being leaked from such meetings - the sort of rules that would make your eyes roll into the back of your head.
In Dublin, St. Brigid's demanded that players be positive and have good craic.
In Mayo, they demanded that weekend breaks be agreed before the season starts.
This stuff happens everywhere.
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The stuff that isn't written down is just unwritten rules anyway but, every January, clubs start afresh with a new regime that is promising that, this year, there will be no f**k ups.
Let's get real though: three senior teams win championships in every county each season - the rest ultimately fail. So, come the dawn of a new year, everyone tries to get tougher and more professional to make sure it doesn't happen again.
For one hurling club up north though, that has been taken to a whole new extreme.
It's no secret that some managers are getting paid by some clubs and it's no secret that the arrival of outside managers can sometimes cause a bit of tension more quickly than normal - especially when money is involved, and especially when results are not going as planned.
What's happening in one hurling club in Ulster is a new extreme.
SportsJOE has exclusively seen documents that were handed out to every member of the senior team at the first meeting.
In the interest of anonymity, the player asked that neither the manager, the club or the county be named but what happened is yet another blow to what the GAA is supposed to be about.
The club held their first meeting for the senior men's hurling team.
They met the new manager from a bordering county.
The manager left the room and then the chairman "took over".
The chairman handed every player a standing order form.
The players were told that anyone who wants to play this year has to sign up.
Students were required to pay 15 quid a month to pay the new manager.
Those working were required to pay 20 quid a month to pay the new manager.
The players were told that the new manager was going to cost 10,000 and the players would contribute to that figure.
The players would also be required to pay membership and sell National GAA Draw tickets on top of that.
A lot of club players would accept now that some of the best coaches from outside the club don't come cheap and, in many cases, the team themselves might request that the club get the best on board - even if they have to pay.
But now there's a situation where a group of players not only know the manager's salary, but they're paying for most of it. That can be difficult to sustain as the year goes on and every one of the players are devoting as much time and effort as the manager to the cause - but they're doing it at a cost, not profit.
To make it worse, the reality now is that these players have to pay a monthly fee to play for their own clubs and represent their community. This is supposed to be their pastime and this is supposed to be their club. Now, it's another expense.
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/outrageous-direct-debit-demands-club-team-pay-manager-show-gaa-lost-control/110163
Sure everyone knows managers don't get paid. :-[
A Dungannon man told me this story a week or 2 ago.
Why is everyone so shocked? Any outside manager is getting 10k. Many clubs cannot get an inside man to manage them.
Standing order form is about OTT but other than that it's nothing new. . .
Doesn't mean it's right!!
The club must have trouble getting the players to support fundraising
if the journalist has it in writing then he should name and shame the club.
otherwise its just idle gossip thesame as any other club.
unless the players had pre agreed to contribution in the first place this is hitting a new low,
even if they did its very easy for single working lads to contribute but a young guy with a family mortgage etc or a student , not so much .
Quote from: Itchy on January 19, 2017, 11:59:34 PM
Why is everyone so shocked? Any outside manager is getting 10k. Many clubs cannot get an inside man to manage them.
Many clubs & players would look down their nose at having an inside man manage them.
Once you go down that road, it's hard to turn back.
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
Quote from: Jinxy on January 20, 2017, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 19, 2017, 11:59:34 PM
Why is everyone so shocked? Any outside manager is getting 10k. Many clubs cannot get an inside man to manage them.
Many clubs & players would look down their nose at having an inside man manage them.
Once you go down that road, it's hard to turn back.
I know that too. My local club in Galway have no money and cannot get anyone inside the club to take them on. Eventually they will have to do exactly what the club above did, get players (the few that are still interested) to fork out. Club football is a mess - I've said it here before.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
If RC or HMRC have been told about ANY payment made to a GAA manager anywhere in the Country I'd be absolutely astounded.
There's no point denying it I'd say there's very few lads on here whose Club don't pay their manager in some shape or form. What amazes me is the constant stream of lads who have been hounded out of certain Clubs year after year and then end up joining a decent club the year after for money again. . . the mind boggles!
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2017, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
If RC or HMRC have been told about ANY payment made to a GAA manager anywhere in the Country I'd be absolutely astounded.
There's no point denying it I'd say there's very few lads on here whose Club don't pay their manager in some shape or form. What amazes me is the constant stream of lads who have been hounded out of certain Clubs year after year and then end up joining a decent club the year after for money again. . . the mind boggles!
I'm guessing somewhat, as my own club thankfully don't pay managers, but it is probably often the case that the club are not the ones paying the manager. A local, with a bit of spare cash, is 'sponsoring' it. The payment then stays off the clubs accounts. Also regarding revenue, could they get away with saying the money is a gift? The threshold for a non relative is €16k.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 20, 2017, 07:56:37 AM
The club must have trouble getting the players to support fundraising
That's some assumption to make! You do realise it costs around 40k to keep an average size club going / year (if the pitch is well maintained)? Add another 10k to that.....
I've zero problem with standing orders to help run the club, ie pitch maintenance, heating, lights, kit etc..., but asking boys to dip monthly for a mercenary is ridiculous. As shark says, a well to do benefactor will cough up the cash and rig it through their books. I'd be very surprised if players paying for an outside manager if common, I'd say the story above is an exception to the rule and you'd nearly question the naivety of the committee for thinking this is the route to go down re paying managers
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2017, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
If RC or HMRC have been told about ANY payment made to a GAA manager anywhere in the Country I'd be absolutely astounded.
There's no point denying it I'd say there's very few lads on here whose Club don't pay their manager in some shape or form. What amazes me is the constant stream of lads who have been hounded out of certain Clubs year after year and then end up joining a decent club the year after for money again. . . the mind boggles!
Absolutely correct, excellent point.
Quote from: shark on January 20, 2017, 12:18:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2017, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
If RC or HMRC have been told about ANY payment made to a GAA manager anywhere in the Country I'd be absolutely astounded.
There's no point denying it I'd say there's very few lads on here whose Club don't pay their manager in some shape or form. What amazes me is the constant stream of lads who have been hounded out of certain Clubs year after year and then end up joining a decent club the year after for money again. . . the mind boggles!
I'm guessing somewhat, as my own club thankfully don't pay managers, but it is probably often the case that the club are not the ones paying the manager. A local, with a bit of spare cash, is 'sponsoring' it. The payment then stays off the clubs accounts. Also regarding revenue, could they get away with saying the money is a gift? The threshold for a non relative is €16k.
the Gift tax is life time from any source, so you might get away with it for one year. unless your Wife or child got a gift in year 2 . would generous expenses not be an easier route if you wanted it kept legal
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2017, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
If RC or HMRC have been told about ANY payment made to a GAA manager anywhere in the Country I'd be absolutely astounded.
There's no point denying it I'd say there's very few lads on here whose Club don't pay their manager in some shape or form. What amazes me is the constant stream of lads who have been hounded out of certain Clubs year after year and then end up joining a decent club the year after for money again. . . the mind boggles!
It's like the english premier league.
Once you've managed a couple of different teams, regardless of how poorly they do you've established yourself as a 'premier league' manager.
I've played under a few 'outside' men and I can tell you this, if one of our own clubmen had the same track record he wouldn't be long getting the bullet.
These lads always seem to be in demand though.
Quote from: shark on January 20, 2017, 12:18:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2017, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
If RC or HMRC have been told about ANY payment made to a GAA manager anywhere in the Country I'd be absolutely astounded.
There's no point denying it I'd say there's very few lads on here whose Club don't pay their manager in some shape or form. What amazes me is the constant stream of lads who have been hounded out of certain Clubs year after year and then end up joining a decent club the year after for money again. . . the mind boggles!
I'm guessing somewhat, as my own club thankfully don't pay managers, but it is probably often the case that the club are not the ones paying the manager. A local, with a bit of spare cash, is 'sponsoring' it. The payment then stays off the clubs accounts. Also regarding revenue, could they get away with saying the money is a gift? The threshold for a non relative is €16k.
Is it not €3K a year that you can gift tax free?
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 20, 2017, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: shark on January 20, 2017, 12:18:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2017, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
If RC or HMRC have been told about ANY payment made to a GAA manager anywhere in the Country I'd be absolutely astounded.
There's no point denying it I'd say there's very few lads on here whose Club don't pay their manager in some shape or form. What amazes me is the constant stream of lads who have been hounded out of certain Clubs year after year and then end up joining a decent club the year after for money again. . . the mind boggles!
I'm guessing somewhat, as my own club thankfully don't pay managers, but it is probably often the case that the club are not the ones paying the manager. A local, with a bit of spare cash, is 'sponsoring' it. The payment then stays off the clubs accounts. Also regarding revenue, could they get away with saying the money is a gift? The threshold for a non relative is €16k.
Is it not €3K a year that you can gift tax free?
Think it's €3k for the small gift exemption, which is operates outside and in addition to the gift tax.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AMI also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
Of course not - when I had to do it (physically pay the outside manager) it was handing him an envelope after training on a Thursday night once a month
From my experience the majority of these outside managers etc dont deliver the goods but it just more of the shite that goes on. If the players fork out this cash then they deserve what they get
Quote from: shark on January 20, 2017, 05:43:38 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 20, 2017, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: shark on January 20, 2017, 12:18:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 20, 2017, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
This is widespread and has been for years. I was secretary and then chairman on my club around the early/mid '00's and was quoted figures in excess of that by prospective managers at the time. Again, something that the GAA should be intent on stamping out but are perfectly happy to allow fester. It seems to be that if you say you're amateur and you believe in the amateur ethos then it's ok to get paid. I also wonder what are the Revenue Commissioners doing in all of this? Is all this income being declared? However bad it is at club level can you just imagine what county team managers are getting.
If RC or HMRC have been told about ANY payment made to a GAA manager anywhere in the Country I'd be absolutely astounded.
There's no point denying it I'd say there's very few lads on here whose Club don't pay their manager in some shape or form. What amazes me is the constant stream of lads who have been hounded out of certain Clubs year after year and then end up joining a decent club the year after for money again. . . the mind boggles!
I'm guessing somewhat, as my own club thankfully don't pay managers, but it is probably often the case that the club are not the ones paying the manager. A local, with a bit of spare cash, is 'sponsoring' it. The payment then stays off the clubs accounts. Also regarding revenue, could they get away with saying the money is a gift? The threshold for a non relative is €16k.
Is it not €3K a year that you can gift tax free?
Think it's €3k for the small gift exemption, which is operates outside and in addition to the gift tax.
The €3k is an annual exemption.
The 16K is a lifetime threshold. So therefore 10K received in year 1, is under the threshold, €10K received in year 2 is part taxable. (total is in excess of €16K) And the total €16K doesn't have to be from the same person. So club A in year 1 and club B in year 2 would still put the receiver over the threshold.
I know this doesn't happen, but that's Revenue's opinion on 'GIFTS'!