Interesting watching this from abroad ..... www.politics.ie (http://www.politics.ie) are reporting that the PD's are about to walk on the back of explosive new allegations from Jody Corcoran, Mail on Sunday poised to air fresh allegations and call Bertie a liar.
Any views on this, voraciously hoovering up any info I can from afar but can't seem to get the mail on Sunday online, anyone able to give a run down on what it says, any confirmation that the PD's will actually walk?
Looks like the most devious and cunning of them all might be caught out - what is it with Northside Taoisigh?
Jaysus but that Sindo is some rag - I am seething that some of their "journalists" ( Jim Cusack and Eoghan Harris should be shot ) are trying to pin this one on Sinn Fein, regardless of the Frank Connolly connection, the question has to be about Bertie's finances.
Most regulars here would know that I'm not exactly known for my Pro-Sinn Fein views but this is taking the piss, do these people think the Irish are stupid.
Someone should bomb Middle Abbey St, and make sure Sir Anthony is in the building when it blows >:(
Quote from: stephenite on May 06, 2007, 08:06:12 AM
Jaysus but that Sindo is some rag - I am seething that some of their "journalists" ( Jim Cusack and Eoghan Harris should be shot ) are trying to pin this one on Sinn Fein, regardless of the Frank Connolly connection, the question has to be about Bertie's finances.
Most regulars here would know that I'm not exactly known for my Pro-Sinn Fein views but this is taking the piss, do these people think the Irish are stupid.
Someone should bomb Middle Abbey St, and make sure Sir Anthony is in the building when it blows >:(
The PDs were always going to put distance between themselves and FF before the election . Haven't got the papers yet this morning but I can imagine Bertie is still getting a hammering. Considering what happened in the wake of the Manchester whip round I wouldn't write him off just yet – he's a few statesmanlike engagements coming up this week and next which if played right could create a very favourable impression.
Indeed. Given Bertie's bounce of eight popularity points the last time he was tackled about his finances, you could argue that it's more likely to have been FF than SF that started this latest round.
Bertie's called a press conference for 3pm
PDs aren't pulling out. Statement from McDowell.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on May 06, 2007, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: Sky Blue on May 06, 2007, 11:42:02 AM
PDs aren't pulling out. Statement from McDowell.
It actually wouldnt make any difference if the PDs pulled out, the Dail has been dissolved and one way or the other I cant see them back in Government after the next election.
What do you meen?
So the Sindo has explosive news that it gave to the Pd's but won't publish it for legal reasons, but the same allegations are enough to force the PD's into maing this statement.
Will be interesting to hear what Bertie has to say later on, anyone kind enough to post up a synopsis of what he says? Hardly going to walk but suppose that depends what secrets are lying in a drawer in Middle Abbey St.
Anyone get the Mail on Sunday yet?
Quote from: 5iveTimes on May 06, 2007, 11:40:15 AM
Donagh, could we see a Fianna Fail, Sinn Fein, Green Party coalition after the election? With both the Shinners and the Greens set to make gains across the 26 Counties could they pull Bertie out of the current hole that he is in? Or is he gone for good this time. Personally I would be glad to see the back of McDowell & Co.
At the moment I don't think the numbers will be there - all depends on how the FF implosion will pan out. Most SF members I know in the south would be against going into government with FF, though they'd mostly be on the left of the party and feel (with justification) they would be seriously tainted by associating themselves with FF bagmen. However the leadership figures from the north would see it as too good an opportunity to miss especially with the prospect of SF ministers talking to each other on the new cross border bodies. The compromise would be to support a minority FF government but my feeling is that the Stickies will ditch both Enda and Pat to form a FF/Labour coalition.
Considering that most of the country despises McDowell, this posturing by the PD's could actually play well for Bertie.
For Stephenite – what the Mail on Sunday says.
Under a front page headline "EXPOSED: BERTIE'S BIG LIE", their main assertion is that, while Bertie has been saying all week that the £30,000 payment from Michael Wall was to Celia Ahern and not to himself, he told the tribunal last month that the payment was to himself. Mr. Wall told the tribunal the same.
Other points they make:
- This new information is at odds with Bertie's assertion after the 'Bertiegate' affair that he had had fully disclosed all payments received. He never mentioned the £30K then. This is what's bothering the PDs.
- He told McDowell back then that he paid full market value for the house. The tribunal is challenging this claim.
- Mr. Wall told the tribunal he knew nothing about Bertie's £50K contribution to the refurbishment house (owned by Wall, rented by Bertie) until recently.
- Wall told the tribunal the £30K was to cover the cost of a conservatory and towards stamp duty on his purchase of the house.
- Wall told the tribunal he paid £138,000 for the house (in 1994?), the exact amount Bertie told two journalists in 1998 HE paid in 1997 when he bought it from Wall. Recently, Bertie has revised this figure to £180K, which is what the sale documents say. The tribunal has put it to Bertie that Wall lost approximately £16K ( I don't know how this is computed) on the sale of the house to Bertie.
- The tribunal has put it to Bertie that Wall was merely a trustee in Bertie's actual ownership of the house. He has denied it. The tribunal discovered that documents associated with Wall's purchase of the house were missing from his solicitor's office for several years.
- The tribunal is seeking details of other lodgements and withdrawals by Bertie and Celia of large amounts that are the exact equivalents of round figure sterling and dollar sums. In particular, the tribunal is questioning the lodgement Bertie claims to be the £30K received from Wall. The amount lodged was not £30K, but £28,774, which equates to exactly $45K at AIB's exchange rate on the day of the transaction.
- The tribunal has been unable to discover details of the separation agreement between Bertie and his wife. Bertie has refused to disclose whether he included the famous £50K cash savings in his safe in his affidavit of means submitted as part of the separation agreement.
What it all boils down to seems to be the suggestion that Bertie was hiding his ownership of the house (and possibly the £50K cash) in the context of the settlement with his wife after their marriage breakdown.
Thanks for that Hardy - fairly complicated stuff in that trying to get individuals (Bertie, the girlfriend and Wall) to have stories that add up.
Seems that now the PD's are frantically trying to save their own asses.
But if Bertie can see fit to sack Ivor Callely (Sp?) for getting his house painted for free, than I for one would like to see some form of poetic justice and see him shaft himself with the electorate. Unfortunately he'll be rewarded for his indiscretions by the Irish electorate who seem to think that corruption is the one trait they expect from their elected representatives :(
Who's written the piece Hardy – Frank Connolly? Payback time for letting McDowell of the leash last year?
Yes - Frank Connolly.
Quote from: Donagh on May 06, 2007, 12:08:06 PM
Considering that most of the country despises McDowell, this posturing by the PD's could actually play well for Bertie.
couldnt agree more. the flee(a) d's would be no loss to bertie...
Brian Cowen's odds on being the next Taoiseach have fallen from 25/1 on thursday to 9/2 with paddy power.
While still unlikely, stranger things have happened....
Quote from: haze on May 07, 2007, 12:31:09 PM
Brian Cowen's odds on being the next Taoiseach have fallen from 25/1 on thursday to 9/2 with paddy power.
While still unlikely, stranger things have happened....
Not that unlikely I'd say. I've taken 7.8 on Betfair. 7 still available. Down to 7/2 with Boylesports.
I think the most likely coalition after the election is a Bertie-less FF with a Rabbitte- less Labour. Cowen is the front runner for FF leader, though I'd be a bit worrried (for my bet) that these things seldom go to the front runner. You can have 100/1 about Dermot Ahern (Boylesports). That might not be a bad punt. 66/1 Mary Hanafin (PP), 66/1 Micheál Martin (Boylesports, PP).
My uncle stuck €50 on at 25/1 on thurs, he is getting a bit excited!
McDowell has tried dirty tricks in the past, and they have blown up in his face, hopefully this time will see them wiped of the face of Irish politics!
Quote from: haze on May 07, 2007, 12:31:09 PM
Brian Cowen's odds on being the next Taoiseach have fallen from 25/1 on thursday to 9/2 with paddy power.
While still unlikely, stranger things have happened....
great, an alcoholic taoiseach. just what we need.
delighted to see the election get dirty. quality entertainment.
Quote from: Hardy on May 07, 2007, 01:32:18 PM66/1 Micheál Martin (Boylesports, PP).
Dear God, I think I would actually leave the country.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 07, 2007, 03:24:03 PM
McDowell has tried dirty tricks in the past, and they have blown up in his face, hopefully this time will see them wiped of the face of Irish politics!
I can sympathise with your sentiments, but what are the dirty tricks this time? Do you think it's important that Bertie appears to have lied to every single one of us over his 'loans' last october, that he lied again last week, that it appears that the £30K stg he got from his mate in manchester was in fact $45K, for which there is no explanation forthcoming.
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=19940&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 07, 2007, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 07, 2007, 03:24:03 PM
McDowell has tried dirty tricks in the past, and they have blown up in his face, hopefully this time will see them wiped of the face of Irish politics!
I can sympathise with your sentiments, but what are the dirty tricks this time? Do you think it's important that Bertie appears to have lied to every single one of us over his 'loans' last october, that he lied again last week, that it appears that the £30K stg he got from his mate in manchester was in fact $45K, for which there is no explanation forthcoming.
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=19940&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
how long has McD known abou this? Why wait until an election was called to act? Cowardice.
apparently he's known about this since thursday night/friday morning. In fairness to McD, he was also lied to last October, it's only since he was shown the transcript of the interview between Bertie and the Tribunal that he's realised what a fool Bertie played him for, as you can imagine, that wouldn't be something poor Michael would be too happy about!
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 07, 2007, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 07, 2007, 03:24:03 PM
McDowell has tried dirty tricks in the past, and they have blown up in his face, hopefully this time will see them wiped of the face of Irish politics!
I can sympathise with your sentiments, but what are the dirty tricks this time? Do you think it's important that Bertie appears to have lied to every single one of us over his 'loans' last october, that he lied again last week, that it appears that the £30K stg he got from his mate in manchester was in fact $45K, for which there is no explanation forthcoming.
Yes Bbbbbertie's not squeaky clean, but does McDowell always have to wait until just before an election or other major event to try and "political point score". Hopefully this time the Irish electorate will see himself and the rest of the PD's for the political opportunist leeches that they are!
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 07, 2007, 06:10:59 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on May 07, 2007, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 07, 2007, 03:24:03 PM
McDowell has tried dirty tricks in the past, and they have blown up in his face, hopefully this time will see them wiped of the face of Irish politics!
McDowell always have to wait until just before an election or other major event to try and "political point score". Hopefully this time the Irish electorate will see himself and the rest of the PD's for the political opportunist leeches that they are!
At least this is one thing I agree with you, the PD's have no moral backbone, they are craven for power at all costs.
Quote from: Fishead_Sam on May 07, 2007, 06:33:50 PM
At least this is one thing I agree with you, the PD's have no moral backbone, they are craven for power at all costs.
Bit like the Blueshirts going into government with the OIRA then or even Clann na Poblachta before that :o
Quote
Brian Cowen's odds on being the next Taoiseach have fallen from 25/1 on thursday to 9/2 with paddy power.
While still unlikely, stranger things have happened....
great, an alcoholic taoiseach. just what we need.
delighted to see the election get dirty. quality entertainment
never knew that dublinfella. is this something else you 'heard' in a pub...
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 07, 2007, 06:10:59 PM
Yes Bbbbbertie's not squeaky clean, but does McDowell always have to wait until just before an election or other major event to try and "political point score". Hopefully this time the Irish electorate will see himself and the rest of the PD's for the political opportunist leeches that they are!
Wow, I mean really, WOW!
Politican in 'political point score' shocker - what do you expect McD to do? Now I'm not a huge fan of the guy either but expected nothing else in this particular situation - and I am very confident if the shoe was on the other foot Bertie, Inda and the rest would have acted in the same manner.
I was going to respond to your other comment on another thread regarding the implementation of fiscal policies by parties when in Governement but I can see it would be lost on you
Dont know if anyone saw the news sunday morning.
On Sky the english lad asking Bertie if he was denying being a crook, those words exactly, priceless.
On RTE Tom PArlon got torna new arse by John Gormley, ripped to pieces
Dublinfella, clarify or retract that statement about Brian Cowen. Where is there any suggestion that he is an alcoholic?
Aye - I was struck by the contrast between Vincent Browne's forensic examination of the issues and the Sky bloke's "Is you a crook, innit?".
AZOffaly - don't have unrealistic expectations of someone who aligns himself with an outfit rejoicing in the name "Shamrock Rovers Ultras" and supports the display of obscene, abusive and offensive banners at a so-called sporting occasion.
I thought Rabitte's quote about McDowell been so far up Bertie's a...norak was the soundbite of the campaign so far. Perfect delivery
C'mon Dublinfella - withdraw that (unless you've got solid proof)
Quote from: stephenite on May 09, 2007, 07:07:45 AM
C'mon Dublinfella - withdraw that (unless you've got solid proof)
I don't have solid proof (how can you) but he is well renowned for his whiskey sessions and it has been mentioned many times in the media.
Well known for propping up the dail bar and hotels bars in D2 well into the night etc.
This cannot be news to people.
Calling a man an alcoholic is an extremely serious statement to make about someone who enjoys the odd session, no more than the rest of us.
I think you should withdraw it, as it is probably libellous.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 11, 2007, 04:11:28 PM
Calling a man an alcoholic is an extremely serious statement to make about someone who enjoys the odd session, no more than the rest of us.
I think you should withdraw it, as it is probably libellous.
ill withdraw it as i cant 'prove' it, but are you trying to tell me his image isnt inextricibly linked to booze and in fact played up on it himself? the rumour is there and its strong, thats all i'll say.
I note there wasnt a call for the withdrawl of the claim that the FF TD's supporting Rovers are corrupt
I didn't see that claim. However it's very easy and trite to claim someone is an alcoholic simply because they enjoy the odd session, and happen to be in the public eye.
It has never been claimed anywhere else, to my knowledge, that Brian Cowen is an alcoholic. I know he is a 'bon vivant' and enjoys good craic and good company. He is universally popular among politicians and non-politicians, even sworn political enemies.
It's too easy to put labels on easy targets like Cowen, but it is still wrong.
Anyhow, since you've withdrawn the allegation, albeit with the usual reference to 'rumour' that seems to be your stock in trade, I'll stop badgering you about it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 11, 2007, 04:19:23 PM
I didn't see that claim. However it's very easy and trite to claim someone is an alcoholic simply because they enjoy the odd session, and happen to be in the public eye.
It has never been claimed anywhere else, to my knowledge, that Brian Cowen is an alcoholic. I know he is a 'bon vivant' and enjoys good craic and good company. He is universally popular among politicians and non-politicians, even sworn political enemies.
It's too easy to put labels on easy targets like Cowen, but it is still wrong.
Anyhow, since you've withdrawn the allegation, albeit with the usual reference to 'rumour' that seems to be your stock in trade, I'll stop badgering you about it.
ill leave it there too, but you will hear this 'rumour' a lot more if/when there is a leadership race in FF....
dublinfella
there are lots of rumours out there about politicians in this country.
All of us have had the good grace not to mention them.
Poor show.
Quote from: resdubwhite on May 11, 2007, 04:29:40 PM
dublinfella
there are lots of rumours out there about politicians in this country.
All of us have had the good grace not to mention them.
Poor show.
Don't you mean 'rumours'?