Poll
Question:
How often do you attend Mass?
Option 1: Every Sunday & All Religious Holidays
votes: 17
Option 2: Most Sundays
votes: 27
Option 3: The odd Sunday and the odd Holy Day
votes: 19
Option 4: Main Religious Holidays only
votes: 9
Option 5: Weddings, Funerals, Confirmations etc. only
votes: 51
OK so results are not going to be reflective of the country as a whole, but just wondered about the boards mass attendance.
Births, deaths and marriages & Christmas.
Missing option
Never, NEVER, NEVER!!!!!!
Quote from: dec on December 13, 2016, 05:18:06 PM
Missing option
Never, NEVER, NEVER!!!!!!
I'd pretty much fall into this category..
I go to the Cathedral and pray but never go to mass.
I am looking for a good non denominational Church to attend, in the meantime I am good with going to the Cathedral.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 13, 2016, 04:56:05 PM
OK so results are not going to be reflective of the country as a whole, but just wondered about the boards mass attendance.
The Tyrone boys never miss mass. They even insist that micky harte leads them in 5 decades of the rosary before games.
Quote from: dec on December 13, 2016, 05:18:06 PM
Missing option
Never, NEVER, NEVER!!!!!!
Well I just thought even if people were athiest, they'd still go to funerals at least. Or maybe the odd wedding?
Weddings and funerals. Even then I spend my time in a chapel wondering why there isn't a better way for me to mark the joining / passing than being bored out of my wits for an hours.
I'm guessing the next generation will begin to bypass funerals, in favour of a social gathering a few days or weeks later. It sounds disprectful, but missing mass 30 years ago was pretty high on the radar of disrespect.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 13, 2016, 05:59:46 PM
Quote from: dec on December 13, 2016, 05:18:06 PM
Missing option
Never, NEVER, NEVER!!!!!!
Well I just thought even if people were athiest, they'd still go to funerals at least. Or maybe the odd wedding?
I go to the funeral home when I can, and actively avoid wedding ceremonies
It's amazing the excuses I can come up with.
I turn up for the food and booze though
I used to be your typical atheist but I began to realize that secularism was really amounting to erasing a huge chunk of our cultural and historical roots, even the pagan bits. I started reading into theology more lately and reading about the likes of Benedict Spinoza, St Thomas-Aquinas and St Augustus and how much they have influenced western philosophy.
Usually when I'm about a new city I'm always on the lookout for interesting churches, not only from a cultural and spiritual point of view but they are great places of refuge from the endless barrage of consumerism you endure on every street and corner. I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
Often think about this. Think for people it should be one or the other. If u don't believe/can't be bothered with mass why bother with christenings for children for example? If u have any belief in it 49 mins a week to stop and think about things can't hurt
Quote from: Mickey Linden on December 13, 2016, 09:18:19 PM
Often think about this. Think for people it should be one or the other. If u don't believe/can't be bothered with mass why bother with christenings for children for example? If u have any belief in it 49 mins a week to stop and think about things can't hurt
You can believe without having to go a big house every week to get preached at and told what to do...
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
The rituals of Religion and particularly in mass are still largely nonsensical imo but I think there is something to be admired in a genuine faith and it is easy enough to spot in a person, the difference in being a Christian as opposed to being a Catholic or Protestant. There's a saved gobshite knocking about my workplace on occasion who is flat out with the Matthew, Mark patter loosely interspersed with references to Fags and Foreigners, same **** would have given you one behind the ear 20 years ago.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
I'm not superstitious in the least. Unlike another poster here; I think the ritual of the church is important as a way of marking stages in ones life as well as a means of coming together as a community.I don't particularly care for sermons or what a lot of churches stances on the issues of the day.
The problem is a large number of lay people and atheists seem to know as little about Christianity and its history as each other and by that measure little about its role in the formation of western or European civilization. We make the mistake of only looking to the bible usually to suit our own points of view.
Spinoza's understanding of God as an impersonal being at the center of the universe that isn't so far removed from that of the idea of the laws of nature and post enlightenment theories of the origins of life. He was strongly influenced by the Stoicism of Ancient Greece which helped formulate his views. It made him a heretic in the eyes of the church but I think in this day and age people would throw him out with the holy bath water much to our loss.
I also found it odd in a way that western tourists fawning over Buddhas and temples in Thailand which I doubt they have little understanding, traveling at great expense to see them, never seemingly calling to question the superstition or the level influence Buddhist monks have on society. Yet these same people wouldn't look sideways at a historic church that sits in the center of their town or village despite what it could tell them about their past and their place in the world.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite. Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition. If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.
It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.
Quote from: Franko on December 13, 2016, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite. Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition. If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.
It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.
Agreed.
I didn't think he was being sanctimonious or condescending. Running ones life based entirely on superstition isn't ideal and can even be tragic. That said it's extremely rare these days and a little superstition doesn't hurt.
I go maybe ten times a year and the way I look at it is you could be in a lot worse places for an hour a good choir can be nice to listen too and maybe u run into a few people to say hello too ,don't take it so seriously and turn off the phone and enjoy the peace.
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 11:23:44 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
I'm not superstitious in the least. Unlike another poster here; I think the ritual of the church is important as a way of marking stages in ones life as well as a means of coming together as a community.I don't particularly care for sermons or what a lot of churches stances on the issues of the day.
The problem is a large number of lay people and atheists seem to know as little about Christianity and its history as each other and by that measure little about its role in the formation of western or European civilization. We make the mistake of only looking to the bible usually to suit our own points of view.
Spinoza's understanding of God as an impersonal being at the center of the universe that isn't so far removed from that of the idea of the laws of nature and post enlightenment theories of the origins of life. He was strongly influenced by the Stoicism of Ancient Greece which helped formulate his views. It made him a heretic in the eyes of the church but I think in this day and age people would throw him out with the holy bath water much to our loss.
I also found it odd in a way that western tourists fawning over Buddhas and temples in Thailand which I doubt they have little understanding, traveling at great expense to see them, never seemingly calling to question the superstition or the level influence Buddhist monks have on society. Yet these same people wouldn't look sideways at a historic church that sits in the center of their town or village despite what it could tell them about their past and their place in the world.
There is a tradition of interpreting Spinoza as an atheist. For him,on this interpretation, god is simply everything that exists. If one takes this view, rejecting the bathwater of Christianity/theism doesn't involve throwing out the baby of Spinoza's thought.
Naturally I never miss Mass on Sunday.I thank God for parents who handed down a strong faith (I remember as a youngster,we would all say the rosary together nightly before bedtime,does that happen in any household nowadays),and I am equally grateful for a strong Catholic education (I bet plenty of the cynics on this thread availed of this too) and have no time for so called integrated education.
Of course what one does and how one thinks and behaves for the rest of the week,outside Mass going,is equally important.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 14, 2016, 05:50:01 AM
Of course what one does and how one thinks and behaves for the rest of the week,outside Mass going,is equally important.
That's you fucked then, isn't it?
Quote from: Franko on December 13, 2016, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite. Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition. If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.
It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.
Play me the world's smallest violin. You tell me there's an invisible man in the sky taking a personal interest in my life and you expect me to not laugh at you? Get a grip!
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 11:23:44 PM
I'm not superstitious in the least. Unlike another poster here; I think the ritual of the church is important as a way of marking stages in ones life as well as a means of coming together as a community.I don't particularly care for sermons or what a lot of churches stances on the issues of the day.
The problem is a large number of lay people and atheists seem to know as little about Christianity and its history as each other and by that measure little about its role in the formation of western or European civilization.
Au contraire: Survey: Atheists, Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/09/28/130191248/atheists-and-agnostics-know-more-about-bible-than-religious)
Quote
We make the mistake of only looking to the bible usually to suit our own points of view.
Anyone can do that, the religious included. The Devil can quote scripture. If you object to having to come to a stop at a red light I'm sure you can dig out a Bible quote to back you up if look hard enough.
Quote
Spinoza's understanding of God as an impersonal being at the center of the universe that isn't so far removed from that of the idea of the laws of nature and post enlightenment theories of the origins of life. He was strongly influenced by the Stoicism of Ancient Greece which helped formulate his views. It made him a heretic in the eyes of the church but I think in this day and age people would throw him out with the holy bath water much to our loss.
A lot of things are worth studying under the heading of philosophy, which is a lot broader and more interesting than the narrow confines of what the catholic church preaches.
Quote
I also found it odd in a way that western tourists fawning over Buddhas and temples in Thailand which I doubt they have little understanding, traveling at great expense to see them, never seemingly calling to question the superstition or the level influence Buddhist monks have on society. Yet these same people wouldn't look sideways at a historic church that sits in the center of their town or village despite what it could tell them about their past and their place in the world.
Buddhism's a bit different from the monotheistic religions. There's not a whole lot of superstition involved, it's more concerned with inner peace and doesn't necessarily talk about a god-like figure. A lot of Buddhist practices are perfectly compatible with atheism, hence its appeal to westerners.
Quote from: gallsman on December 14, 2016, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on December 14, 2016, 05:50:01 AM
Of course what one does and how one thinks and behaves for the rest of the week,outside Mass going,is equally important.
That's you fucked then, isn't it?
;D
We've been dandering around looking like us for around 200'000 years. That's our heritage. Not a fad like religion.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 13, 2016, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite. Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition. If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.
It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.
Play me the world's smallest violin. You tell me there's an invisible man in the sky taking a personal interest in my life and you expect me to not laugh at you? Get a grip!
I didn't tell you anything apart from the fact that you were being a smug arsehole. Which isn't up for debate. Uber liberal Eamon preaches tolerance for all... except theists. Enjoy Donald.
Quote from: Franko on December 13, 2016, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite. Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition. If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.
It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.
Well said. Spot on riposte.
Quote from: Mickey Linden on December 13, 2016, 09:18:19 PM
Often think about this. Think for people it should be one or the other. If u don't believe/can't be bothered with mass why bother with christenings for children for example? If u have any belief in it 49 mins a week to stop and think about things can't hurt
Christenings are more or less a box ticking exercise to get the kids into the local school.
Remove that requirement and I could see christenings dropping off as well.
When my father was on his death bed we asked him if he wanted buried or cremated. He replied "surprise me".
Later, we found out that his last wish was for the Armagh team to lower his coffin into grave, so that they would let him down one last time.
Typical Joe! 😂😂
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2016, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 06:56:45 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 13, 2016, 11:58:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 13, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Quote from: thejuice on December 13, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.
I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.
Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite. Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition. If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.
It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.
Play me the world's smallest violin. You tell me there's an invisible man in the sky taking a personal interest in my life and you expect me to not laugh at you? Get a grip!
I didn't tell you anything apart from the fact that you were being a smug arsehole. Which isn't up for debate. Uber liberal Eamon preaches tolerance for all... except theists. Enjoy Donald.
+1, Thankfully he is in the minority,
Weddings, funerals...etc. Mass attendance has plummeted over the last 2 decades. There is now plenty of seats in Mass with no-one standing at the back (or so i'm told by regular mass attendees). My mother never goes to Mass but she told me that she doesn't have to go to a Chapel/Church to be a Catholic or talk to God.
TBH i believe the older you get you'll maybe start thinking of death and then maybe take up your faith again...I dunno if that'll happen me (i doubt it) but time will tell. The scandals over the years and change in the new generations have been the cause of the decline. When you think back to 40 or 50 years ago the Priest was the top dog in the town and going back further hundreds of years ago the Clergy were probably more important that the law (they were the law...lol).
In 50 years time the Church's will prob be porta-cabins like the we Free Pre or Elim buildings you find scattered all over the North by our noisy neighbours...
If I was attending a funeral or wedding or baptism which happened to involve a mass, I'd go.
Otherwise never. My kids were not baptized. Religion is absent from my family's lives.
Eldest fella is making his First Communion this year in school, so they've started a programme where he attends a mass with all the other P4/R4 kids in the area there are 9 organized mass before First Communion and one for after.
It's not to bad when I'm there but who's bright idea was it to tweak the words of the parayers ffs
Quote from: BenDover on December 14, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
Eldest fella is making his First Communion this year in school, so they've started a programme where he attends a mass with all the other P4/R4 kids in the area there are 9 organized mass before First Communion and one for after.
It's not to bad when I'm there but who's bright idea was it to tweak the words of the parayers ffs
ah, the early indoctrination
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 07:07:48 AM
Buddhism's a bit different from the monotheistic religions. There's not a whole lot of superstition involved, it's more concerned with inner peace and doesn't necessarily talk about a god-like figure. A lot of Buddhist practices are perfectly compatible with atheism, hence its appeal to westerners.
or in your case you worship yourself
Illdecide, is it really the scandals that's turning people away from the church? If people's faith was strong, they probably wouldn't let that stop them.
For me, it's just funerals, weddings really. I just don't believe in it anymore. Any mass I sit through I cringe at some of the things being said and prayed for.
As for how the clergy treated people in the past, People seemed to just take everything from them. Did nobody stand up to them or f**k them off?
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
or in your case you worship yourself
Nothing wrong with that at all. I'm not surprised someone like you would find the concept so alien. If I had your attitude I'd shoot myself.
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2016, 09:20:01 AM
I didn't tell you anything apart from the fact that you were being a smug arsehole. Which isn't up for debate. Uber liberal Eamon preaches tolerance for all... except theists. Enjoy Donald.
Yes, quite.
My point: "Religion is superstitious nonsense."
Your response: "You're a smug arsehole."
Typical conservative. Lose the argument, lose your mind, and blow up in a rage of personal insults and name-calling rather than try to address the point. I couldn't have asked for more evidence of the intellectual bankruptcy of religion. Please continue.
It's more cultural than religious here where I live in the States. The Episcopalians are the old money in town and the Catholics are the professional and small business people. There are still subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) discriminations against Catholics so we all band together
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2016, 01:23:21 AM
It's more cultural than religious here where I live in the States. The Episcopalians are the old money in town and the Catholics are the professional and small business people. There are still subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) discriminations against Catholics so we all band together
Really?
In what way?
Quote from: Orior on December 14, 2016, 09:49:53 AM
When my father was on his death bed we asked him if he wanted buried or cremated. He replied "surprise me".
Later, we found out that his last wish was for the Armagh team to lower his coffin into grave, so that they would let him down one last time.
;D
Quote from: BenDover on December 14, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
Eldest fella is making his First Communion this year in school, so they've started a programme where he attends a mass with all the other P4/R4 kids in the area there are 9 organized mass before First Communion and one for after.
It's not to bad when I'm there but who's bright idea was it to tweak the words of the parayers ffs
It must be years since you were at mass!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 11:44:16 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on December 14, 2016, 09:33:44 AM
Well said. Spot on riposte.
Would you two like to be alone?
How grown up of you, and funny too. ::)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 11:47:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 14, 2016, 09:20:01 AM
I didn't tell you anything apart from the fact that you were being a smug arsehole. Which isn't up for debate. Uber liberal Eamon preaches tolerance for all... except theists. Enjoy Donald.
Yes, quite.
My point: "Religion is superstitious nonsense."
Your response: "You're a smug arsehole."
Typical conservative. Lose the argument, lose your mind, and blow up in a rage of personal insults and name-calling rather than try to address the point. I couldn't have asked for more evidence of the intellectual bankruptcy of religion. Please continue.
Oh dear, your need to pigeon hole me has you all tied up in knots here.
1. If you'd read my opening post you see that I'm not religious. I was born and raised Catholic but haven't been to mass of my own volition in years.
2. I'm definitely not conservative in my politics.
Just because I don't feel the need to 'laugh' at someone who has a strong belief in God, doesn't make me either. I'm not sure where this leaves your general point but it doesn't look good from where I'm standing. But hey, you feel free to insult those who don't agree with you. That's your lookout. Though if you do, I'd caution you that describing yourself as a 'liberal' may cause you to be the one who's being laughed at.
Quote from: Boycey on December 13, 2016, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: dec on December 13, 2016, 05:18:06 PM
Missing option
Never, NEVER, NEVER!!!!!!
I'd pretty much fall into this category..
And me, seeing as we're going to be excluded from the poll.
Quote from: No wides on December 15, 2016, 08:07:04 AM
Quote from: BenDover on December 14, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
Eldest fella is making his First Communion this year in school, so they've started a programme where he attends a mass with all the other P4/R4 kids in the area there are 9 organized mass before First Communion and one for after.
It's not to bad when I'm there but who's bright idea was it to tweak the words of the parayers ffs
It must be years since you were at mass!
it is, i'd be in the weddings, funerals category when it comes to mass only go when i really have to.
Quote from: BenDover on December 15, 2016, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: No wides on December 15, 2016, 08:07:04 AM
Quote from: BenDover on December 14, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
Eldest fella is making his First Communion this year in school, so they've started a programme where he attends a mass with all the other P4/R4 kids in the area there are 9 organized mass before First Communion and one for after.
It's not to bad when I'm there but who's bright idea was it to tweak the words of the parayers ffs
It must be years since you were at mass!
it is, i'd be in the weddings, funerals category when it comes to mass only go when i really have to.
Same as that. Was at a funeral recently and there was all this "and with your spirit" craic that I don't recall back when I was conscripted to attend Mass.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 15, 2016, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: BenDover on December 15, 2016, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: No wides on December 15, 2016, 08:07:04 AM
Quote from: BenDover on December 14, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
Eldest fella is making his First Communion this year in school, so they've started a programme where he attends a mass with all the other P4/R4 kids in the area there are 9 organized mass before First Communion and one for after.
It's not to bad when I'm there but who's bright idea was it to tweak the words of the parayers ffs
It must be years since you were at mass!
it is, i'd be in the weddings, funerals category when it comes to mass only go when i really have to.
Same as that. Was at a funeral recently and there was all this "and with your spirit" craic that I don't recall back when I was conscripted to attend Mass.
And a change to the act of contrition. Most gravous or something like that. Must have been a way for the clergy to apologise for their major failings....
The change in the words used in the Mass occurred over two years ago and it was meant to bring Ireland into line with the language used in other countries.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
or in your case you worship yourself
Nothing wrong with that at all.
Actually there is. Look up delusions of grandeur and associated disorders.
Or maybe you're just a prissy little princess who hasn't grown up ;D
Quote from: foxcommander on December 15, 2016, 01:41:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
or in your case you worship yourself
Nothing wrong with that at all.
Actually there is. Look up delusions of grandeur and associated disorders.
Or maybe you're just a prissy little princess who hasn't grown up ;D
A great observation. 8)
It took 350 years for the Catholic Church to right this particular wrong: http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/31/world/after-350-years-vatican-says-galileo-was-right-it-moves.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/31/world/after-350-years-vatican-says-galileo-was-right-it-moves.html)
Religion has been a completely logical part of our search for answers. But like everything else, it was exploited, became completely dogmatic and looks to me to be seriously wounded.
I think the greater availability of education has probably been the biggest cause of its decline, as people are more inclined to make up their own minds, instead of accepting counter-intuitive claims as 'faith'.
I like reading historical stuff like TheJuice and find The Bible fascinating. I wish there was such a comprehensive account from Ireland that far back. But we don't even know who wrote most of it, let alone know that they were writing 'God's Word'.
For some people though religion is far more than a mere religion. For a lot of us in Ireland it is still part of our identity, even if we don't go to mass. I would see my own identity as Irish Catholic non-practising.
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2016, 01:31:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2016, 01:23:21 AM
It's more cultural than religious here where I live in the States. The Episcopalians are the old money in town and the Catholics are the professional and small business people. There are still subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) discriminations against Catholics so we all band together
Really?
In what way?
One example would be the Beach and Tennis club is membership by invitation only and somehow Catholics never seem to be on the invite list. There's a prep school that gives out scholarships to local students....somehow Catholics see to be under represented, if at all, when the scholarships are given out. A third example would be someone I know who has five kids and wanted to remodel and expand a house they bought add bedrooms and bathrooms....someone actually asked them at a public meeting if they were planning to have any more children....before lodging all types of complaints againwith the planning board against their application
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2016, 07:06:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2016, 01:31:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2016, 01:23:21 AM
It's more cultural than religious here where I live in the States. The Episcopalians are the old money in town and the Catholics are the professional and small business people. There are still subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) discriminations against Catholics so we all band together
Really?
In what way?
One example would be the Beach and Tennis club is membership by invitation only and somehow Catholics never seem to be on the invite list. There's a prep school that gives out scholarships to local students....somehow Catholics see to be under represented, if at all, when the scholarships are given out. A third example would be someone I know who has five kids and wanted to remodel and expand a house they bought add bedrooms and bathrooms....someone actually asked them at a public meeting if they were planning to have any more children....before lodging all types of complaints againwith the planning board against their application
The first two cases would probably be grounds for discrimination, if you can prove it. The 3rd would depend on what the basis of the complaint was and if it was in writing . If it was based on religion or the number of children, then I would be suing.
Quote from: foxcommander on December 15, 2016, 01:41:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
or in your case you worship yourself
Nothing wrong with that at all.
Actually there is. Look up delusions of grandeur and associated disorders.
Or maybe you're just a prissy little princess who hasn't grown up ;D
Is that the best you can do? Come on man, put your back into it! You must have more creative insults in the bag than that, you amusingly stupid mucksavage.
What part of the country is that, whitey?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2016, 08:51:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 15, 2016, 01:41:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
or in your case you worship yourself
Nothing wrong with that at all.
Actually there is. Look up delusions of grandeur and associated disorders.
Or maybe you're just a prissy little princess who hasn't grown up ;D
Is that the best you can do? Come on man, put your back into it! You must have more creative insults in the bag than that, you amusingly stupid mucksavage.
I think I hit the bullseye!!
Don't worry eamon, I'll still come along to your sweet 16 party ;)
Quote from: johnneycool on December 15, 2016, 12:30:38 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 15, 2016, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: BenDover on December 15, 2016, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: No wides on December 15, 2016, 08:07:04 AM
Quote from: BenDover on December 14, 2016, 03:44:27 PM
Eldest fella is making his First Communion this year in school, so they've started a programme where he attends a mass with all the other P4/R4 kids in the area there are 9 organized mass before First Communion and one for after.
It's not to bad when I'm there but who's bright idea was it to tweak the words of the parayers ffs
It must be years since you were at mass!
it is, i'd be in the weddings, funerals category when it comes to mass only go when i really have to.
Same as that. Was at a funeral recently and there was all this "and with your spirit" craic that I don't recall back when I was conscripted to attend Mass.
And a change to the act of contrition. Most gravous or something like that. Must have been a way for the clergy to apologise for their major failings....
It's more in line with the original Latin - "et cum spirito tuo" and "mea maxima culpa" was always in the Latin but the English translation from the 1960s went a bit free and easy with some bits.
How does the Act of Contrition go now then? "Bless me Father and stand by for the same made-up bullshit I gave you last month because I can't think of anything bad I really did since we're all fundamentally good people who get brow-beaten by the likes of you into thinking we're guilty of something awful, Amen"?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 16, 2016, 04:02:34 AM
How does the Act of Contrition go now then? "Bless me Father and stand by for the same made-up bullshit I gave you last month because I can't think of anything bad I really did since we're all fundamentally good people who get brow-beaten by the likes of you into thinking we're guilty of something awful, Amen"?
That's the one ;)
Quote from: Oraisteach on December 15, 2016, 09:23:36 PM
What part of the country is that, whitey?
Metro Boston
It's probably snobbery more than anything, but it manifests itself in ways that could be interpreted as anti Catholic. The old Yankee families who have been around for generations resent newcomers moving in shaking things up. Many of them have accomplished fvck all in their own lives and cling to these vestiges of privilege as a way of feeling good about themselves.
One particular incident gave me a good laugh....the son of a lady who cleaned houses for the rich people won a full scholarship to BC and did very well for himself. He bought a big house from an old family who were down on their luck and then applied to the planning board to demolish it and build a new one in its place. There was holy blue murder
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 16, 2016, 04:02:34 AM
How does the Act of Contrition go now then? "Bless me Father and stand by for the same made-up bullshit I gave you last month because I can't think of anything bad I really did since we're all fundamentally good people who get brow-beaten by the likes of you into thinking we're guilty of something awful, Amen"?
I reckon someone so proactive at sneering at other people would have something to report.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 16, 2016, 07:12:07 PM
I reckon someone so proactive at sneering at other people would have something to report.
I wouldn't confess to such actions. I'd boast about it.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 16, 2016, 10:07:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 16, 2016, 07:12:07 PM
I reckon someone so proactive at sneering at other people would have something to report.
I wouldn't confess to such actions. I'd boast about it.
Boasting about sneering? Definitely princess syndrome! OMG!
The PC mask is slipping
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2016, 08:51:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 15, 2016, 01:41:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
or in your case you worship yourself
Nothing wrong with that at all.
Actually there is. Look up delusions of grandeur and associated disorders.
Or maybe you're just a prissy little princess who hasn't grown up ;D
Is that the best you can do? Come on man, put your back into it! You must have more creative insults in the bag than that, you amusingly stupid mucksavage.
The irony. 😉😉
Quote from: foxcommander on December 15, 2016, 09:55:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2016, 08:51:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 15, 2016, 01:41:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 14, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2016, 05:16:56 PM
or in your case you worship yourself
Nothing wrong with that at all.
Actually there is. Look up delusions of grandeur and associated disorders.
Or maybe you're just a prissy little princess who hasn't grown up ;D
Is that the best you can do? Come on man, put your back into it! You must have more creative insults in the bag than that, you amusingly stupid mucksavage.
I think I hit the bullseye!!
Don't worry eamon, I'll still come along to your sweet 16 party ;)
😉