During the week, Ruth Dudley Edwards was having a go at Sinn Fein. Nothing unusual there.
Then Nelson McCausland having a dig at Crossmaglen Rangers for having a 1916 commemoration in their grounds.
Yet on the 12th July, we all have to take a days leave to celebrate protestant king william defeat catholic king james.
Are we to hang our head in shame because of what happened in 1916?
Is the issue not political commemorations in sporting grounds?
We should all hang our heads in shame about 1916,and the legacy of a partitioned island neither part of which is remotely independent.
Too many northern Prods won't tolerate any signs of Irish nationhood. Fair play to Arlene foster for making it to Christchurch for a CoI ceremony commemorating 1916. Nationalists should be proud to mark 1916. And 2002. And 2003
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2016, 10:33:23 PM
Is the issue not political commemorations in sporting grounds?
We should all hang our heads in shame about 1916,and the legacy of a partitioned island neither part of which is remotely independent.
No country is truly independent though. They are either run by unelected arseholes or squeezed by the balls by the worlds banks. Or both.
I'm interested in the history of 1916, but I won't be celebrating it. I wouldn't say we should be ashamedof 1916. Something like it was needed to ignite a fight for independence, quite rightly so. Partition was the result of what started with 1916 but had 32 counties gained independence, would things have been any less bloodier? You can't exactly ignore the fact that hundreds of thousands of Unionists in the North wished to remain under Britain, and they weren't exactly going to be easily put off that notion.
I too am interested in 1916 but am wondering what the point of it was,especially with the freestate having a collective nervous breakdown at the prospect of a Brexit (while bizarrely celebrating independence from Britain?),and conforming to German law.Tons of bloodshed North and South,massive emigration in search of work,then for a decade when there was economic prosperity it was totally mismanaged.
Gaelscoileanna in Dublin. It was a unionist city before. A lot done but more to do on the 4th field.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 05, 2016, 07:20:13 AM
I too am interested in 1916 but am wondering what the point of it was,especially with the freestate having a collective nervous breakdown at the prospect of a Brexit (while bizarrely celebrating independence from Britain?),and conforming to German law.Tons of bloodshed North and South,massive emigration in search of work,then for a decade when there was economic prosperity it was totally mismanaged.
Yes it has been a mess, but contributed to by centuries of underdevelopment and lack of mature autonomous governance. Belfast will continue to suffer and it will be history repeating itself from the pre 1916 period in Dublin when a relatively prosperous region was de prioritised by Westminster. I really dont think Brexit will happen but if it did, I would suspect that NI will suffer greatly. The future of NI under Britain is very bleak indeed anyway as the England continues to serve its own demands first, an itchy Scotland second and that loyal puppy NI third. The case for an economically united Ireland will come when those who see themselves as British are rewarded proportionately higher than their number politically and economically than those who see themselves as Irish. ie in a positively discriminating all Ireland powersharing executive and in that context the rejoining of the commonwealth for identity purposes. Now there's the tail wagging the dog! DUP/unionism and Fine Gael with Fianna Fail/SDLP aligning as well. Sinn Fein and labour would be the third grouping but ironically Sinn Fein could be obliterated under such an approach and this might suit some interests. The approach must come from the South first but everything would be changed utterly.
I see the PSNI are now wading in trying to connect 1916 celebrations with dissident activity. A bit pathetic but what else would you expect?
I don't think it's factually incorrect for the PSNI to point out that dissidents are on a mission for a big spectacular to coincide with the Easter Rising anniversary.
Of course it's factually incorrect. Speculation is not fact. The dissident head-bangers have been on a mission for a big spectacular since they formed.
Maybe I should have entitled the thread Commemeration instead of Celebration
Or Commemoration even😜
Quote from: StGallsGAA on March 05, 2016, 11:14:14 AM
I see the PSNI are now wading in trying to connect 1916 celebrations with dissident activity. A bit pathetic but what else would you expect?
As Mr Spock would say, that's only logical thinking.
After all the Bonfires and shooting at the Police at Easter are connected
A couple of points, Unionists of all hues have the knack to condemn Nationalism and Republicanism and any war or uprising that does not meet their strict definition of a just war, and they do it with out hint of embarrassment at their own double standards. Some so called nationalists on both sides of the border have a similar line on what constitutes good Anti British violence and bad. Secondly to be fair to the PSNI they obviously fear with good reason that dissidents want a Centenary Celebration of an explosive nature. Personally I don't really have much interest in marching to commemorate wars or violence of any historical note, be it 1916 or 1690.
Off topic - Have a few friends from overseas visiting Ireland during Easter week. Is there anything going on in Dublin related to the rising? Obviously taking them to Kilmainham jail.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 08, 2016, 02:46:15 PM
Off topic - Have a few friends from overseas visiting Ireland during Easter week. Is there anything going on in Dublin related to the rising? Obviously taking them to Kilmainham jail.
This (http://1916.rte.ie/featured-reflecting/rte-reflecting-the-rising-in-partnership-with-ireland-2016/) seems to be the big one.
List of events here (http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/easter-rising-commemorations-50-events-for-2016-1.2492549)
http://www.irishnews.com/opinion/letterstotheeditor/2016/03/08/news/absurd-to-ask-any-unionist-to-attend-1916-commemorations-442079/?param=ds12rif76F
Get your mates to read this,to see how farcical it all is,before taking them anywhere!
So one eejits writes a letter to a paper and the whole thing has to be cancelled?????
Cork man,do you dispute the veracity of what he says?
A see Sinn Fein are selling commemorative "bonds" , complete with Bobby Storeys signature :-[
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-hijacking-1916-commemorations-with-sale-of-bonds-34519765.html
Is Maurice Fitzgerald of Shanbally the same Maurice Fitzgerald of Shanbally who ran in the 2007 general election in Cork South-Centra (http://www.politics.ie/forum/cork/15151-who-independants-cork-what-do-they-stand.html#post502905)l? The same Maurice Fitzgerald who got 30 votes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork_South%E2%80%93Central_(D%C3%A1il_%C3%89ireann_constituency)#2007_general_election)? Even advocates of rate-payers democracy would struggle to conjure up a mandate from that.
What can I expect to see on Easter Sunday if I make a family day out of it
Whether he is or isn't the same Maurice,do you dispute what he says in the letter?
Quote from: T Fearon on March 08, 2016, 10:33:22 PM
Whether he is or isn't the same Maurice,do you dispute what he says in the letter?
I dispute the Unionists are not dead against a United Ireland bit.
And do you think the independence of a part of Ireland has been even moderately well managed since 1916?
Quote from: T Fearon on March 08, 2016, 11:01:36 PM
And do you think the independence of a part of Ireland has been even moderately well managed since 1916?
Yes, it has been moderately well managed.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 08, 2016, 11:32:47 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on March 08, 2016, 11:01:36 PM
And do you think the independence of a part of Ireland has been even moderately well managed since 1916?
Yes, it has been moderately well managed.
Agreed. No more than that and no worse than France or UK or a string of other Countries.
That floor is always sending letters to the Irish News running down the 26 Cos.
If it's as bad as he says you'd wonder why he still lives in it.
Probably for the same reason that thousands of disgruntled nationalists (many of them on this thread) are content to live in the North.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 08, 2016, 10:33:22 PM
Whether he is or isn't the same Maurice,do you dispute what he says in the letter?
Apart from the headline part - I'd agree it is absurd to be asking Arlene Foster to be involved in the celebrations - the letter is a farrago of nonsense.
And yes, I said 'celebrations'. An obituary for RB McDowell (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/books-obituaries/8733807/Professor-RB-McDowell.html)noted his belief that "the history of Ireland was the history of the British presence". As far as he and his ilk were concerned, there is no Irish nation separate from the other people in these islands. And before the Easter Rising, this would be a valid opinion. After it, it's claptrap. For standing up to the bully who had always maintained a monopoly on violence to maintain its hegemony, the men and women of 1916 should be celebrated.
Quote from: Hardy on March 08, 2016, 05:32:26 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 08, 2016, 02:46:15 PM
Off topic - Have a few friends from overseas visiting Ireland during Easter week. Is there anything going on in Dublin related to the rising? Obviously taking them to Kilmainham jail.
This (http://1916.rte.ie/featured-reflecting/rte-reflecting-the-rising-in-partnership-with-ireland-2016/) seems to be the big one.
List of events here (http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/easter-rising-commemorations-50-events-for-2016-1.2492549)
Cheers Hardy
Justine McCarthy wrote a great piece recently skewering the community of self-loathing that questions the validity of the Easter Rising:
QuoteHISTORIC REVISIONISM MEANS THE TRUTH IS STILL A CASUALTY OF THE RISING
by Justine McCarthy, "The Sunday Times", 17 January 2016
The delectably named actress Perdita Weeks, who plays a classic English rose beauty in RTE's Rebellion, has said it is "no wonder" that British school children such as herself were not taught about the Easter Rising, since England's treatment of the Irish was "absolutely appalling". In Ireland, this news comes as something of a thunderbolt, 100 years after the event. England was mean to Ireland? Some mistake, surely.
Since the dawn of this commemoration year, and in its bristling approach, the loudest commentary in Ireland about those five days that sowed the seeds of this independent Irish state has spewed scorn on the Rising. It has been variously disclaimed as antidemocratic, fanatical bloodlust; Catholic fundamentalism; uncalled for and unwanted. The tone underlying each charge is one of communal self-abased apology.
To whom are these apologists saying sorry? To the insurrectionists who were executed? No. To the people of Ireland whose country continued to be occupied for another six years? No. To whom then, as a baffled Weeks might wonder.
The commentariat, by and large, is mortified that England was caused bother while its back was turned, dealing with the First World War. Can you think of any other country that makes craven mea culpas to its former oppressor for exploiting an opportunity to gain its freedom? One of the glaring deficiencies of this commentary is its failure to imagine how different history might have turned out had the government in Westminster agreed to negotiate a peaceful handover of power without the need for bloodshed.
The night before he was executed in Kilmainham jail, Eammon Ceannt, one of the seven Proclamation signatories, wrote: "This generation can claim to have raised sons as brave as any that went before. And in the years to come, Ireland will honour those who risked all for her honour at Easter 1916." Ceannt's valedictory prophecy proves that Ireland's patriot dead were not right about everything. Their critics, however, would have us believe they were wrong about everything.
One of the most common refrains is that the leaders of the Rising had no mandate for it. What were they supposed to do? Commission an opinion poll from Behaviour & Attitudes or, maybe, hold a referendum? Remember, just 30% of men in Ireland (compared with 60% in England) and no women whatsoever were entitled to vote in the last election held before the Rising, in 1910.
While John Redmond's Irish Parliamentary Party won that election comprehensively, Ireland's political landscape changed significantly in the intervening six years. Westminster had put Home Rule on the long finger once again. Edward Carson's Ulster Volunteers, who had the support of the Tories, had smuggled in 25,000 guns, and 57 of 70 British army officers at the Curragh quit rather than take on Carson's force.
Today's commentators would have us believe that everyday life for the citizenry in Ireland mirrored England's. This is a fallacy. The Rising came three years after the Lockout and its concomitant destitution, with civilians in some of Europe's worst slums left dependent on soup kitchens. It was two years after Erskine Childers's gun-running to Howth on the Asgard when, in response to jeering by a crowd on Dublin's Bachelor's Walk, British soldiers fatally shot and bayonetted four civilians and injured 38 others.
Ireland was not a benign, untroubled place. The Rising took place 68 years after a million people died in the Famine, during which Charles Trevelyan, the assistant secretary to the treasury, exported Indian rice sent to feed the starving.
Common wisdom has it that, if the British had not turned nasty and executed the leaders, the Rising would never have won popular support. This assumes that, until the executions started, the British had behaved impeccably. It is another fallacy, as evidenced by the fate of Francis Sheehy-Skeffington, a pacifist arrested while trying to stop looters. He was taken as a hostage by an army raiding party in Rathmines, which was ordered to shoot him if it came under attack. Afterwards, they shot him dead by firing squad and never bothered telling his wife, Hanna, who was left to search the city for her husband.
In the absence of elections that genuinely gave the people their say, the second-best medium for assessing public opinion in 1916 is contemporary media coverage. This is largely dependent on the pro-establishment Irish Times and William Martin Murphy's Irish Independent. Murphy, a former Irish Parliamentary Party MP offered a knighthood by King Edward VII, was in the employers' vanguard against James Larkin in the Lockout. He was, therefore, not ideally placed to know or to express the mood of the majority. Even after the executions had commenced in Kilmainham jail, he was still writing in the Irish Independent that more of the leaders ought be put to death.
Ireland had its own powerful conservative class at the time of the Rising. They were stolid, middle-class men who wanted to keep the status quo because it served them well. They were the guardians of the establishment, with an Irish accent.
The insurgents, on the other hand, were a mixed bag. James Connolly was born in Edinburgh, Eamon de Valera in America, Tom Clarke in Hampshire. Roger Casement and Constance Markievicz were Protestants, as were Grace and Muriel Gifford. Ceannt's father was an RIC officer. John MacBride was a major in the Boer War. What bonded them was dissatisfaction with the status quo: they were nationalists, suffragists and intellectuals who yearned for a republic of equals. Their spiritual heirs still do.
To dismiss them as a handful of wrong-headed mavericks is a grievous fallacy. On Easter Monday, 1,200 men and women participated in Dublin's Rising. More than 3,500 were arrested after it. Had Eoin MacNeill not countermanded the rebellion order on Easter Monday, and had Casement's German guns not been intercepted in Kerry, who knows how many more would have taken part across the country.
Would the Rising have been the start of the Irish War of Independence? Most people do not glory in the deaths and injuries caused in 1916. Yet most people do ascribe to the right of a people to self-determination. It is a core principle of international law that a country should be free to choose its own sovereignty and political system, to set its own ethos and vision, to nurture its own culture and make its own mistakes. It is a principle rooted deep in human psychology, entangled in a mesh of self-respect and destiny, that no slanted history can undermine. When Ireland lost its economic sovereignty in 2010, the country better appreciated its hard-won self-determination.
Anti-imperialism was a growing movement around the world in the late 19th and early 20th century, but much of the analysis about Ireland suggests that independence was a mere bagatelle way down the list of a sane people's priorities. I, for one, am happy to have grown up in a self-governing country.
In the 100 years since the Rising, Ireland has endured a war of independence, a civil war and 30 years of the Northern Ireland Troubles. The propaganda war alone is the one that endures. The truth continues to rank foremost among its casualties.
Finally, the Insurrection series is to be re-broadcast (http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2016/0308/773453-rte-one-to-screen-the-8-part-drama-insurrection).
Good article Deiseach.
Her reference to the slums in Dublin and 'The Famine' (I hate that we call it that - it suggests there was only one famine) 68 years earlier is welcome but only scratches the surface.
At the start of the 20th century Ireland was the poorest country in Ireland. Localised famines were still happening in the West of Ireland (and surely elsewhere?) long after 'The Famine'. I have documentary evidence of famine in the West Mayo area as late as 1894. I seriously doubt the conditions that produced these famines had been dealt with by 1916.
Cromwell brought famine to Ireland in 1649-1652. The famine of 1740-1741 is estimated to have killed 38% of the population, a much higher percentage that the 1845-1849 famine. There were famines in the 1830s leading to food riots and starvation. The tithes were a cause of these famines and ironically this lead to protestant missions to help the starving in the poorer parts of Ireland. There was a big famine as late as 1879 although deaths were minimal.
In Germany there was famine in 1916 caused by the British blockade.
My point is to highlight the poverty in Ireland to a greater extent than the article. Survival was the priority for most people, certainly in the slums and most of rural Ireland.
I think the Gaeilge once again has the better name for 'the Famine'. It wasn't as if there was no food in the country, the Brits sent it for export.
As Mitchel (I think) coined the phrase; God brought blight, England brought the Famine.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 09, 2016, 09:27:50 PM
I think the Gaeilge once again has the better name for 'the Famine'. It wasn't as if there was no food in the country, the Brits sent it for export.
As Mitchel (I think) coined the phrase; God brought blight, England brought the Famine.
An Gorta Mór.
Exactly.
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2016, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 09, 2016, 09:27:50 PM
I think the Gaeilge once again has the better name for 'the Famine'. It wasn't as if there was no food in the country, the Brits sent it for export.
As Mitchel (I think) coined the phrase; God brought blight, England brought the Famine.
An Gorta Mór.
Exactly.
I hate to do this but, for the sake of accuracy:
"An Gorta Mór" is a quasi-literal translation of the English phrase "The Great Hunger." I don't know where the phrase came from; I know Cecil Woodham-Smith's book on the Famine was called "The Great Hunger" and maybe that's how it stuck. The Great Hunger was published in 1962, and that's half-a-century ago now.
"An Gorta Mór" is not the "correct" Irish term for the Famine because the phrase "An Gorta Mór" was not in contemporary use by Irish speakers during the famine. It only came into use afterwards - I would guess after the Woodham-Smith book, but I have no evidence for that. We have a distressing habit of translating an English word or phrase into poor Irish -
Béarlachas, it's called, English-flavoured Irish - and pretending that it's been there all along. This is another example of that.
The correct Irish term for the Famine, and by correct I mean the one that was in use with Irish speakers at the time of the Famine, is "an drochshaol." Its literal translation is the bad life, but 'hard times' is probably more accurate to the idiom and the spirit of the thing. Again, as Farrandeelin points out, there wasn't a famine in the sense of a food shortage. The food was there all the time. It's just the peasants weren't let eat it.
Iolar, using your criterium of defining an event by how it was described at the time, WW1 would still be called the Great War.
I have heard of it described as 'an drochshaol' and this term frequently appears here: http://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/ME (http://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/ME), so I take your point.
But no matter what you call it, my point was simply that calling it The Famine, as almost everyone does nowadays, is very misleading. It could lead one to believe that there was only one famine.
Interesting Iolar. Something new learned everyday.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on March 09, 2016, 10:41:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2016, 10:23:26 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 09, 2016, 09:27:50 PM
I think the Gaeilge once again has the better name for 'the Famine'. It wasn't as if there was no food in the country, the Brits sent it for export.
As Mitchel (I think) coined the phrase; God brought blight, England brought the Famine.
An Gorta Mór.
Exactly.
I hate to do this but, for the sake of accuracy:
"An Gorta Mór" is a quasi-literal translation of the English phrase "The Great Hunger." I don't know where the phrase came from; I know Cecil Woodham-Smith's book on the Famine was called "The Great Hunger" and maybe that's how it stuck. The Great Hunger was published in 1962, and that's half-a-century ago now.
"An Gorta Mór" is not the "correct" Irish term for the Famine because the phrase "An Gorta Mór" was not in contemporary use by Irish speakers during the famine. It only came into use afterwards - I would guess after the Woodham-Smith book, but I have no evidence for that. We have a distressing habit of translating an English word or phrase into poor Irish - Béarlachas, it's called, English-flavoured Irish - and pretending that it's been there all along. This is another example of that.
The correct Irish term for the Famine, and by correct I mean the one that was in use with Irish speakers at the time of the Famine, is "an drochshaol." Its literal translation is the bad life, but 'hard times' is probably more accurate to the idiom and the spirit of the thing. Again, as Farrandeelin points out, there wasn't a famine in the sense of a food shortage. The food was there all the time. It's just the peasants weren't let eat it.
Great post, Iolar.
(By trivial contrast with 'An Gorta Mór', my annoying example of
Béarlachas is 'craic'.)
Ach wise up. Do you think the great plague or the Black Death were called that at the time? Don't get on high horses. In Donegal they said ' In am an gha' which is 'in the time of need' - masters of understatement.
Quote from: ONeill on March 10, 2016, 01:01:30 AM
In Donegal they said ' In am an gha' which is 'in the time of need' - masters of understatement.
1919-23 The " troubled times"
1939-45 The " Emergency"
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Some of them will be secretly rising.
Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Some of them will be secretly rising.
LOL 123
Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Some of them will be secretly rising.
Heh heh heh.
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2016, 01:49:11 PM
Good article Deiseach.
Her reference to the slums in Dublin and 'The Famine' (I hate that we call it that - it suggests there was only one famine) 68 years earlier is welcome but only scratches the surface.
At the start of the 20th century Ireland was the poorest country in Ireland. Localised famines were still happening in the West of Ireland (and surely elsewhere?) long after 'The Famine'. I have documentary evidence of famine in the West Mayo area as late as 1894. I seriously doubt the conditions that produced these famines had been dealt with by 1916.
Cromwell brought famine to Ireland in 1649-1652. The famine of 1740-1741 is estimated to have killed 38% of the population, a much higher percentage that the 1845-1849 famine. There were famines in the 1830s leading to food riots and starvation. The tithes were a cause of these famines and ironically this lead to protestant missions to help the starving in the poorer parts of Ireland. There was a big famine as late as 1879 although deaths were minimal.
In Germany there was famine in 1916 caused by the British blockade.
My point is to highlight the poverty in Ireland to a greater extent than the article. Survival was the priority for most people, certainly in the slums and most of rural Ireland.
Have you come across this Muppet? I had never about it until a few years ago but there has been a lot of work done on it lately.
''The famine of 1879 – 1880 is sometimes described as the last major Irish famine. In contrast with earlier subsistence crises, effective intervention, including assisted emigration, meant there was little excess mortality, even in badly affected areas such as County Mayo. The Mission of the Blacksod Bay Emigration database is to digitalize and make available the stories of the people of Belmullet and Achill and the descendants of those who emigrated under the assisted emigration schemes initiated by the philanthropist, James Hack Tuke, between 1883 and 1884 when 3,350 people had their passage paid to North America. It aims to document the people who left, where they came from and what happened to them in the United States and Canada; while at the same time demonstrating the impact which the exodus had on those who remained in Mayo. It is hoped that the database will help the descendants of the emigrants in North America to engage with their relations and the community in the west of Ireland, and that their shared experiences will re-establish a bond between the Belmullet and Achill areas and those areas in the United States and Canada where the emigrants settled. This is the start of a process which will strengthen the connection between the descendants of the emigrants and the home place of their ancestors.''
http://www.blacksodbayemigration.ie/
Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Some of them will be secretly rising.
Tony will be glad he is Northern Irish as this sort of thing isn't part of it.
Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Some of them will be secretly rising.
I wonder who they got to make the cake?
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
If it wasn't worth voting Yes before, it sure is now.
Quote from: ludermor on March 11, 2016, 08:17:40 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2016, 01:49:11 PM
Good article Deiseach.
Her reference to the slums in Dublin and 'The Famine' (I hate that we call it that - it suggests there was only one famine) 68 years earlier is welcome but only scratches the surface.
At the start of the 20th century Ireland was the poorest country in Ireland. Localised famines were still happening in the West of Ireland (and surely elsewhere?) long after 'The Famine'. I have documentary evidence of famine in the West Mayo area as late as 1894. I seriously doubt the conditions that produced these famines had been dealt with by 1916.
Cromwell brought famine to Ireland in 1649-1652. The famine of 1740-1741 is estimated to have killed 38% of the population, a much higher percentage that the 1845-1849 famine. There were famines in the 1830s leading to food riots and starvation. The tithes were a cause of these famines and ironically this lead to protestant missions to help the starving in the poorer parts of Ireland. There was a big famine as late as 1879 although deaths were minimal.
In Germany there was famine in 1916 caused by the British blockade.
My point is to highlight the poverty in Ireland to a greater extent than the article. Survival was the priority for most people, certainly in the slums and most of rural Ireland.
Have you come across this Muppet? I had never about it until a few years ago but there has been a lot of work done on it lately.
''The famine of 1879 – 1880 is sometimes described as the last major Irish famine. In contrast with earlier subsistence crises, effective intervention, including assisted emigration, meant there was little excess mortality, even in badly affected areas such as County Mayo. The Mission of the Blacksod Bay Emigration database is to digitalize and make available the stories of the people of Belmullet and Achill and the descendants of those who emigrated under the assisted emigration schemes initiated by the philanthropist, James Hack Tuke, between 1883 and 1884 when 3,350 people had their passage paid to North America. It aims to document the people who left, where they came from and what happened to them in the United States and Canada; while at the same time demonstrating the impact which the exodus had on those who remained in Mayo. It is hoped that the database will help the descendants of the emigrants in North America to engage with their relations and the community in the west of Ireland, and that their shared experiences will re-establish a bond between the Belmullet and Achill areas and those areas in the United States and Canada where the emigrants settled. This is the start of a process which will strengthen the connection between the descendants of the emigrants and the home place of their ancestors.''
http://www.blacksodbayemigration.ie/
Have it thanks. It is a great piece of work by whoever is behind it. It is great that you can search by townland e.g. enter Dooyork or whatever.
Quote from: deiseach on March 11, 2016, 09:35:44 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
If it wasn't worth voting Yes before, it sure is now.
Which one is the bride?
Quote from: muppet on March 11, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
Quote from: ludermor on March 11, 2016, 08:17:40 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 09, 2016, 01:49:11 PM
Good article Deiseach.
Her reference to the slums in Dublin and 'The Famine' (I hate that we call it that - it suggests there was only one famine) 68 years earlier is welcome but only scratches the surface.
At the start of the 20th century Ireland was the poorest country in Ireland. Localised famines were still happening in the West of Ireland (and surely elsewhere?) long after 'The Famine'. I have documentary evidence of famine in the West Mayo area as late as 1894. I seriously doubt the conditions that produced these famines had been dealt with by 1916.
Cromwell brought famine to Ireland in 1649-1652. The famine of 1740-1741 is estimated to have killed 38% of the population, a much higher percentage that the 1845-1849 famine. There were famines in the 1830s leading to food riots and starvation. The tithes were a cause of these famines and ironically this lead to protestant missions to help the starving in the poorer parts of Ireland. There was a big famine as late as 1879 although deaths were minimal.
In Germany there was famine in 1916 caused by the British blockade.
My point is to highlight the poverty in Ireland to a greater extent than the article. Survival was the priority for most people, certainly in the slums and most of rural Ireland.
Have you come across this Muppet? I had never about it until a few years ago but there has been a lot of work done on it lately.
''The famine of 1879 – 1880 is sometimes described as the last major Irish famine. In contrast with earlier subsistence crises, effective intervention, including assisted emigration, meant there was little excess mortality, even in badly affected areas such as County Mayo. The Mission of the Blacksod Bay Emigration database is to digitalize and make available the stories of the people of Belmullet and Achill and the descendants of those who emigrated under the assisted emigration schemes initiated by the philanthropist, James Hack Tuke, between 1883 and 1884 when 3,350 people had their passage paid to North America. It aims to document the people who left, where they came from and what happened to them in the United States and Canada; while at the same time demonstrating the impact which the exodus had on those who remained in Mayo. It is hoped that the database will help the descendants of the emigrants in North America to engage with their relations and the community in the west of Ireland, and that their shared experiences will re-establish a bond between the Belmullet and Achill areas and those areas in the United States and Canada where the emigrants settled. This is the start of a process which will strengthen the connection between the descendants of the emigrants and the home place of their ancestors.''
http://www.blacksodbayemigration.ie/
Have it thanks. It is a great piece of work by whoever is behind it. It is great that you can search by townland e.g. enter Dooyork or whatever.
Yeah its a serious resource. Its mad to see the amount of complete families who migrated and the numbers of some of the family names ( Lavelle 158, Barrett 158, Gaughan 136, Gallagher 113)
Ludermor probably better to continue this on this thread: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=16418.60 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=16418.60)
Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Some of them will be secretly rising.
Jim Molyneaux's special friend will be jealous, he'd probably love to dress as a planter.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2016, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Some of them will be secretly rising.
Jim Molyneaux's special friend will be jealous, he'd probably love to dress as a planter.
There's nowt as queer as folk. Think that story has shocked a few ok. Amazing the notice was in Belfast Tele but only the Irish News picked up on the significance of the sub text
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2016, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2016, 04:52:36 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T (http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2016/03/10/news/don-t-tell-the-bride-features-1916-rising-themed-same-sex-marriage-446117/?param=ds441rif44T)
DUP heads are exploding this very minute
Some of them will be secretly rising.
Jim Molyneaux's special friend will be jealous, he'd probably love to dress as a planter.
Classy.