http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-a-referendum-on-ireland-s-future-1.2476474
a long way from the 1980s and how people viewed Thatcher...
I wonder how many voters are neoliberal. The f**kers
I suppose having American stopovers in Shannon, not building social housing, giving that concession to Shell, not investing in rail, paying off bondholders, PPP, giving bookies tax breaks, selling Nama property to hedge funds, killing the national pensions reserve, 12.5% corporation tax, the double Irish, tax scams, the IFSC, light touch regulations etc would be all fairly neolib. But this will never come up in the election unless from people RTE class as extremist like Joe Higgins. Fianna Fail and the Blue shirts are bought and sold.
Quote from: seafoid on January 03, 2016, 03:07:40 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-a-referendum-on-ireland-s-future-1.2476474
a long way from the 1980s and how people viewed Thatcher...
I wonder how many voters are neoliberal. The f**kers
I think a lot of them vote on a "he fixshed de road" basis.
Quote from: seafoid on January 03, 2016, 07:57:37 PM
I suppose having American stopovers in Shannon, not building social housing, giving that concession to Shell, not investing in rail, paying off bondholders, PPP, giving bookies tax breaks, selling Nama property to hedge funds, killing the national pensions reserve, 12.5% corporation tax, the double Irish, tax scams, the IFSC, light touch regulations etc would be all fairly neolib. But this will never come up in the election unless from people RTE class as extremist like Joe Higgins. Fianna Fail and the Blue shirts are bought and sold.
Great whinge by give me your costed alternatives for the Socialist Utopia.
What we have in Ireland is oppositionism rather than opposition. A really good article of the ST today by Andrew Marr on this.
Quote from: ashman on January 03, 2016, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 03, 2016, 07:57:37 PM
I suppose having American stopovers in Shannon, not building social housing, giving that concession to Shell, not investing in rail, paying off bondholders, PPP, giving bookies tax breaks, selling Nama property to hedge funds, killing the national pensions reserve, 12.5% corporation tax, the double Irish, tax scams, the IFSC, light touch regulations etc would be all fairly neolib. But this will never come up in the election unless from people RTE class as extremist like Joe Higgins. Fianna Fail and the Blue shirts are bought and sold.
Great whinge by give me your costed alternatives for the Socialist Utopia.
What we have in Ireland is oppositionism rather than opposition. A really good article of the ST today by Andrew Marr on this.
Hanging onto the NPR and not paying off the bondholders would have saved around 60bn, enough for a few social houses
Neoliberalism is fucked anyway
http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=164#more-164
"The euro was introduced in 1999, the high-water mark of neoliberal economics. As such, its institutional design embeds neoliberal monetary theory which in many regards rests on the same economic principles as the gold standard. These principles are that fiscal policy is ineffective; inflation is caused exclusively by money supply growth; and the real economy quickly and automatically returns to full employment in response to negative shocks.
Principles discredited
All three principles have been fundamentally discredited by the current recession"
The ECB cant even hit its own inflation target FFS.
Wait until all that neolib debt in the system is dealt with by a massive dose of inflation following the wave of deflation that has already started . Only way out of the latest crisis. TINA There is no alternative. :o
Quote from: ashman on January 03, 2016, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 03, 2016, 07:57:37 PM
I suppose having American stopovers in Shannon, not building social housing, giving that concession to Shell, not investing in rail, paying off bondholders, PPP, giving bookies tax breaks, selling Nama property to hedge funds, killing the national pensions reserve, 12.5% corporation tax, the double Irish, tax scams, the IFSC, light touch regulations etc would be all fairly neolib. But this will never come up in the election unless from people RTE class as extremist like Joe Higgins. Fianna Fail and the Blue shirts are bought and sold.
Great whinge by give me your costed alternatives for the Socialist Utopia.
What we have in Ireland is oppositionism rather than opposition. A really good article of the ST today by Andrew Marr on this.
It's paywalled. Anybody got it?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2016, 03:24:56 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 03, 2016, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 03, 2016, 07:57:37 PM
I suppose having American stopovers in Shannon, not building social housing, giving that concession to Shell, not investing in rail, paying off bondholders, PPP, giving bookies tax breaks, selling Nama property to hedge funds, killing the national pensions reserve, 12.5% corporation tax, the double Irish, tax scams, the IFSC, light touch regulations etc would be all fairly neolib. But this will never come up in the election unless from people RTE class as extremist like Joe Higgins. Fianna Fail and the Blue shirts are bought and sold.
Great whinge by give me your costed alternatives for the Socialist Utopia.
What we have in Ireland is oppositionism rather than opposition. A really good article of the ST today by Andrew Marr on this.
It's paywalled. Anybody got it?
the ST is a neoliberal rag
Quote from: seafoid on January 03, 2016, 07:57:37 PM
I suppose having American stopovers in Shannon, not building social housing, giving that concession to Shell, not investing in rail, paying off bondholders, PPP, giving bookies tax breaks, selling Nama property to hedge funds, killing the national pensions reserve, 12.5% corporation tax, the double Irish, tax scams, the IFSC, light touch regulations etc would be all fairly neolib. But this will never come up in the election unless from people RTE class as extremist like Joe Higgins. Fianna Fail and the Blue shirts are bought and sold.
That's a key statement. The widespread media attitude to non right wing politicians is crazy.
A very good friend of mine really surprised (disappointed) me in a conversation about Joe Higgins recently. I think the conversation was fair play to him over something and he was very intelligent when out comes "yeah, but you wouldn't trust him to run the economy." It's a stock phrase used against anyone with the merest hint of left-ward leaning which I wouldn't usually associate with her. So much wrong with it it's unreal. You have to buy into the fairytale that our government "runs the economy". Even FF's disastrous policies (deemed too mild by FG if memory serves) needed a global financial meltdown to properly wreck the country.
We never had neo liberalism in Ireland . Largely irish elections are popularity contests won by populists. In the "boom " years spending " on health , welfare , pay etc increased on a massive scales. Elections were bought and all promised the sun , moon and stars. When the boom ( overdraft) ceased the commitments were still there.
Neo liberalism my nelly .
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 04, 2016, 02:52:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 03, 2016, 07:57:37 PM
I suppose having American stopovers in Shannon, not building social housing, giving that concession to Shell, not investing in rail, paying off bondholders, PPP, giving bookies tax breaks, selling Nama property to hedge funds, killing the national pensions reserve, 12.5% corporation tax, the double Irish, tax scams, the IFSC, light touch regulations etc would be all fairly neolib. But this will never come up in the election unless from people RTE class as extremist like Joe Higgins. Fianna Fail and the Blue shirts are bought and sold.
That's a key statement. The widespread media attitude to non right wing politicians is crazy.
A very good friend of mine really surprised (disappointed) me in a conversation about Joe Higgins recently. I think the conversation was fair play to him over something and he was very intelligent when out comes "yeah, but you wouldn't trust him to run the economy." It's a stock phrase used against anyone with the merest hint of left-ward leaning which I wouldn't usually associate with her. So much wrong with it it's unreal. You have to buy into the fairytale that our government "runs the economy". Even FF's disastrous policies (deemed too mild by FG if memory serves) needed a global financial meltdown to properly wreck the country.
Re Lisbon Joe Higgins said
I am no eurosceptic, but the Lisbon Treaty is basically a bankers and corporate ramp with little in it for the ordinary joe
Just read this
081014
Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin has suggested that Ireland's membership of the EU has helped it avoid the type of financial meltdown being experienced by Iceland.
Speaking at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg, Mr Martin asked the public to reflect on Europe's support in the crisis and a
danger that Ireland could be marginalised within the EU due to its rejection of the Lisbon Treaty. "We can see the difficulties that Iceland is having as a country that is on its own.
This suggests that being at the heart of Europe is far more preferable than being on the margins of Europe and going the isolationist route," he said.
This kind of crap is still regurgitated
Fintan O'Toole completely misread the no vote in Ireland (The fear factory devastated Ireland's flaccid political class, June 14). It is invariably described as an incoherent alliance of left and right nationalists. In fact Eurobarometer polls show that the Irish have been and continue to be among the most enthusiastic Europeans. In October 2007 three-quarters of those polled in Ireland agreed "that EU membership is a good thing". This compares with just 34% of Britons.
The common thread that drew the seemingly incoherent worries of the Irish groups campaigning against the Lisbon treaty is democracy. The left didn't want to cede power to Brussels to determine health policy, the liberal right didn't want to cede power to determine tax, conservative Catholics didn't want social policy regarding abortion or euthanasia determined by the EU. Whether the Lisbon treaty in fact ceded this power to the EU is a matter of debate - a debate the yes side didn't entertain.
But there was a common fear that democracy was under threat.If the EU responds to the concerns of its supporters it can extricate itself from this problem. If it chooses to ignore these concerns it will deepen the divide between the political elites and the citizens. This will leave us vulnerable to the rhetoric of populist nationalist parties and all that goes with it.
Dr Eoin O'Malley
that whole centrist parties = sensible, rational , trustworthy, competent while lefties = dangerous, deluded, careless is still the dominant RTE discourse (look at how they interview Wallace or Daly) but in reality it died when the Troika arrived and FF bent over. Or even before that when FF went incoherent .
Where was
democracy when the bondholders were pleasured and the cost loaded onto the sovereign balance sheet ?
Quote from: ashman on January 04, 2016, 06:47:21 PM
We never had neo liberalism in Ireland . Largely irish elections are popularity contests won by populists. In the "boom " years spending " on health , welfare , pay etc increased on a massive scales. Elections were bought and all promised the sun , moon and stars. When the boom ( overdraft) ceased the commitments were still there.
Neo liberalism my nelly .
the bailout was neoliberal. Anglo was neolib. The no fiscal leeway is neolib. The good old days have been gone 7 years, Rip . Did you just wake up ?
Quote from: seafoid on January 04, 2016, 06:53:40 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 04, 2016, 06:47:21 PM
We never had neo liberalism in Ireland . Largely irish elections are popularity contests won by populists. In the "boom " years spending " on health , welfare , pay etc increased on a massive scales. Elections were bought and all promised the sun , moon and stars. When the boom ( overdraft) ceased the commitments were still there.
Neo liberalism my nelly .
the bailout was neoliberal. Anglo was neolib. The no fiscal leeway is neolib. The good old days have been gone 7 years, Rip . Did you just wake up ?
Surely neoliberalism would have been to let Anglo sink and walk from the smoking wreck?
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 04, 2016, 09:20:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 04, 2016, 06:53:40 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 04, 2016, 06:47:21 PM
We never had neo liberalism in Ireland . Largely irish elections are popularity contests won by populists. In the "boom " years spending " on health , welfare , pay etc increased on a massive scales. Elections were bought and all promised the sun , moon and stars. When the boom ( overdraft) ceased the commitments were still there.
Neo liberalism my nelly .
the bailout was neoliberal. Anglo was neolib. The no fiscal leeway is neolib. The good old days have been gone 7 years, Rip . Did you just wake up ?
Surely neoliberalism would have been to let Anglo sink and walk from the smoking wreck?
Neoliberalism is trickle up. So paying off the bonds in full was very much in the correct spirit. And FF paid for it in spades.
I see Lucyloo and the Renua neolibs launched their election programme today.
Tax cuts for the better off all over the place it seems. God help the poor, sick, disabled, unemployed,etc if these cnuts ever get their way.
Hopefully the GE will be the last we'll ever hear of them.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 04, 2016, 10:54:33 PM
I see Lucyloo and the Renua neolibs launched their election programme today.
Tax cuts for the better off all over the place it seems. God help the poor, sick, disabled, unemployed,etc if these cnuts ever get their way.
Hopefully the GE will be the last we'll ever hear of them.
Probably. It looks like a weird mix of catholic fundis and mean bastards
Seafoid
I think you use the word neo liberal to describe anything you find unpalatable. The bottom line is that is true free market ideas had applied to 2007/08 crash then banks that were insolvent would have been liquidated . Unfortunately the global financial system was interconnected to a scary level. After Lehmans was let go the whole house of cards was exposed.
Governments and central banks put serious capital to rescue illiquid and insolvent institutions. Whatever this was it certainly not what the Chicago guys had envisaged.
Ashman
The ideology has morphed over time as all ideologies do. Thatcher spent lot of time going on about enterprise but now the focus is more on pure speculation. And it has more or less iterated itself to irrelevance.
The Paulson treatment of Lehman itself, to let it go to the wall, to send a strong message to Wall St about Moral hazard freaked global capital, who had priced none of this and was expecting to be bailed out. The incoherence was especially strong after the first TARP was rejected by congress. So that was the last outing for pure Chicago School Schumpeterian creative destruction. Schumpeter must have been too influenced by ww2 in Germany. Of all the creative stuff that came out of Chicago in the early 80s, house music was easily the best. It will still be going strong long after Milton Friedman is reduced to an historic figure of post Keynesian thought.
Back to 2008. It took a while for the PTB to regain their poise and foist QE on us. And there is huge difference between liquidity and solvency.
QE has bought some time but there are a lot of zombie companies who wouldn't be with us if rates were back to 4%. Which is why rates are not going to go back to 4%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrYdN3ghyQ4
"Certainly someone who is frozen is not alive
But neither are they dead they are in a third state
And biostasis is the word I would use to describe it"
Insolvent would my choice of word. Many Italian , American and French banks.
the old x is the word you use to describe to anything you don't like is a great chestnut. I think the present economic system is unfit to serve all the small people who pay into their pension funds and trust those advising them.
The problem is economic stagnation and shifting economic wealth towards the top 1% , while it may seem like a great bunch of lads , just reinforces the tendency.
Sea
You are not really answering me . There was nothing "neo liberal" about irish politics really. Just are our socialists /Marxists are not really that either. Only in Ireland does the "left " oppose property tax and water charges . We like populists .
Therein lies our real problem rather than any ideals.
Quote from: ashman on January 05, 2016, 07:55:11 AM
Sea
You are not really answering me . There was nothing "neo liberal" about irish politics really. Just are our socialists /Marxists are not really that either. Only in Ireland does the "left " oppose property tax and water charges . We like populists .
Therein lies our real problem rather than any ideals.
Ashman
You have a good point. The core Irish model is McCreevyian really. Spend money to buy off interest groups. I think all politicians in Ireland are populist as well. Nobody with a sense of the state and making it better, John Kelly of FG maybe 40 years ago had that but nobody now. Now sitting above that core I would say that all the memes are neolib. Department of Finance is managed by neoliberals. No new social housing since Govt investment in poor people is poisonous to neolibs. The expansion of credit . Light touch regulation etc etc ad pactum sunt servandis or whatever it was
Fair play Seafoid, im reading a great book atm called the Establishment and how they get away it by Owen Jones, it basically spells out in clear terms how govt functions and who they serve.
Basically you have outriders who are all lined up as policy spokepeople for tv and will be available at the drop of a hat to drive home the spin, then you have the media who are controlled by wealthy elites and want wars/controversy and can ruin a mans career with a headline no matter if its true or false, how all the corporations from health/oil/weapons manufacturers pay for big dinners and donate to parties to affect policy, then you have controlling of the Police force of the day, then you have the scroungers of the state ( and no im not on about social welfare benefit fraud) I am on about corporations being heavily subsidised by public funds like rail companies in the uk who get the railways maintained and allowed to make millions in profit. All public assets up for privatisation like the NHS which is completely underfunded to ensure poor service to allow for the excuse.Then you have tax dodgers like Vodafone/google/facebook/starbucks etc.. who hilariously the Big 4 advise. And guess who the govt use for tax compliance policy the Big 4 conflict of interest maybe one thinks.
The reality is the Capitalism only works for the rich elite, but sadly as they go to even more extremist right wing policies people are waking up and Capitalism will crumble eventually, a fairer system is possible and a revolution will change everything.
Most people are not as informed as they should be so probably give into fear and im sure fine gael will use the exact same tactics as tories did in the uk with fear propaganda and the devil you know rhetoric, but heres the thing yes this charade may continue but id say 10/15 yrs things will change as people wake up.
I personally wouldn't vote labour, fine gael, fianna fail or sinn fein.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on January 05, 2016, 12:48:59 PM
Fair play Seafoid, im reading a great book atm called the Establishment and how they get away it by Owen Jones, it basically spells out in clear terms how govt functions and who they serve.
Basically you have outriders who are all lined up as policy spokepeople for tv and will be available at the drop of a hat to drive home the spin, then you have the media who are controlled by wealthy elites and want wars/controversy and can ruin a mans career with a headline no matter if its true or false, how all the corporations from health/oil/weapons manufacturers pay for big dinners and donate to parties to affect policy, then you have controlling of the Police force of the day, then you have the scroungers of the state ( and no im not on about social welfare benefit fraud) I am on about corporations being heavily subsidised by public funds like rail companies in the uk who get the railways maintained and allowed to make millions in profit. All public assets up for privatisation like the NHS which is completely underfunded to ensure poor service to allow for the excuse.Then you have tax dodgers like Vodafone/google/facebook/starbucks etc.. who hilariously the Big 4 advise. And guess who the govt use for tax compliance policy the Big 4 conflict of interest maybe one thinks.
The reality is the Capitalism only works for the rich elite, but sadly as they go to even more extremist right wing policies people are waking up and Capitalism will crumble eventually, a fairer system is possible and a revolution will change everything.
Most people are not as informed as they should be so probably give into fear and im sure fine gael will use the exact same tactics as tories did in the uk with fear propaganda and the devil you know rhetoric, but heres the thing yes this charade may continue but id say 10/15 yrs things will change as people wake up.
I personally wouldn't vote labour, fine gael, fianna fail or sinn fein.
I think it will fall over sooner than 2026, Sligonian. No growth is here already
Numbers are dreadful.
1. USD 9 trillion in QE globally and not a single OECD Central Bank can manage 2% inflation, their only target under monetarism . No inflation because ordinary workers are not getting payrises because all the money is going to the rich. And this is counterproductive. If you have a cow you can only kill and eat it once.
2. 3 trillion USD in bonds are now yielding negative rates.
3. There are NINE growth stocks left in the SnP 500.
4. USD 1 tn was taken out of the SnP 50o in buybacks in 2015 ie not invested
I think neoliberalism is fucked myself because of those 4 stats . This is without talking about ordinary people and disgust at greed and incompetence. Read somewhere that democracy in theory is popular but in practice is plutocracy.
The thing about Ireland is that the left is a mix of what's considered left and right elsewhere while the right is also a mix of left and right.
As a result, policies of the left in Ireland are similar enough to the far right in UK (eg Euro Sceptics). Likewise in Ireland many of the left decry the bailout of the banks but in the US, it was the right (Republicans) that decried the gov bailout of the banks and auto industry which was mainly supported by Democratic party (which is the left in the US). Even when Bush as President pushed for gov bailout of banks, he needed the Democratic congress to push it through. AIG shareholders tried to sue the gov for bailing it from failing.
Also in Ireland you have the left labeling FG a right wing party, but any social reform that came in this country (contraception, divorce, gay marriage) came in via FG/Labour coalitions. Right wings parties in US for example (Republicans) very anti Gay marriage.
Would argue that we are better off not having extremes and good gov needs to be a mix of positions.
I think the republicans in the States would not be comparable to any centre right party in Europe. The Tories would never turn on the NHS, for example. That would be suicidal.
FG are a mix of socially progressive and fairly conservative. The only difference between the biggest 4 parties in Ireland is which special interest group they work for. Policies are interchangeable.
Quote from: seafoid on January 05, 2016, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on January 05, 2016, 12:48:59 PM
Fair play Seafoid, im reading a great book atm called the Establishment and how they get away it by Owen Jones, it basically spells out in clear terms how govt functions and who they serve.
Basically you have outriders who are all lined up as policy spokepeople for tv and will be available at the drop of a hat to drive home the spin, then you have the media who are controlled by wealthy elites and want wars/controversy and can ruin a mans career with a headline no matter if its true or false, how all the corporations from health/oil/weapons manufacturers pay for big dinners and donate to parties to affect policy, then you have controlling of the Police force of the day, then you have the scroungers of the state ( and no im not on about social welfare benefit fraud) I am on about corporations being heavily subsidised by public funds like rail companies in the uk who get the railways maintained and allowed to make millions in profit. All public assets up for privatisation like the NHS which is completely underfunded to ensure poor service to allow for the excuse.Then you have tax dodgers like Vodafone/google/facebook/starbucks etc.. who hilariously the Big 4 advise. And guess who the govt use for tax compliance policy the Big 4 conflict of interest maybe one thinks.
The reality is the Capitalism only works for the rich elite, but sadly as they go to even more extremist right wing policies people are waking up and Capitalism will crumble eventually, a fairer system is possible and a revolution will change everything.
Most people are not as informed as they should be so probably give into fear and im sure fine gael will use the exact same tactics as tories did in the uk with fear propaganda and the devil you know rhetoric, but heres the thing yes this charade may continue but id say 10/15 yrs things will change as people wake up.
I personally wouldn't vote labour, fine gael, fianna fail or sinn fein.
I think it will fall over sooner than 2026, Sligonian. No growth is here already
Numbers are dreadful.
1. USD 9 trillion in QE globally and not a single OECD Central Bank can manage 2% inflation, their only target under monetarism . No inflation because ordinary workers are not getting payrises because all the money is going to the rich. And this is counterproductive. If you have a cow you can only kill and eat it once.
2. 3 trillion USD in bonds are now yielding negative rates.
3. There are NINE growth stocks left in the SnP 500.
4. USD 1 tn was taken out of the SnP 50o in buybacks in 2015 ie not invested
I think neoliberalism is fucked myself because of those 4 stats . This is without talking about ordinary people and disgust at greed and incompetence. Read somewhere that democracy in theory is popular but in practice is plutocracy.
I really hope you are correct but I'm fearful that even Sligonian's guess is optimistic.
QuoteFG are a mix of socially progressive and fairly conservative.
So why are they currently (and in fact always have) decimating the education system?
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 05, 2016, 03:05:01 PM
QuoteFG are a mix of socially progressive and fairly conservative.
So why are they currently (and in fact always have) decimating the education system?
Rich people (who they work for) can afford private education.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 05, 2016, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 05, 2016, 03:05:01 PM
QuoteFG are a mix of socially progressive and fairly conservative.
So why are they currently (and in fact always have) decimating the education system?
Rich people (who they work for) can afford private education.
I'm beginning to think it may be that simple alright Seanie.
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 05, 2016, 03:05:01 PM
QuoteFG are a mix of socially progressive and fairly conservative.
So why are they currently (and in fact always have) decimating the education system?
Maybe down to the balance of power within the party? I think they don't have the balls to cut teachers salaries so they cut the rest of educational spending. Sure aren't half of them teachers?
Quote from: seafoid on January 05, 2016, 04:38:52 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 05, 2016, 03:05:01 PM
QuoteFG are a mix of socially progressive and fairly conservative.
So why are they currently (and in fact always have) decimating the education system?
Maybe down to the balance of power within the party? I think they don't have the balls to cut teachers salaries so they cut the rest of educational spending. Sure aren't half of them teachers?
I do know a little bit about this - teachers' salaries, especially for new teachers, have been cut very substantially, to the point where the quality of graduates is falling. I think any experienced teacher in a management position will confirm.
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 05, 2016, 04:55:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 05, 2016, 04:38:52 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 05, 2016, 03:05:01 PM
QuoteFG are a mix of socially progressive and fairly conservative.
So why are they currently (and in fact always have) decimating the education system?
Maybe down to the balance of power within the party? I think they don't have the balls to cut teachers salaries so they cut the rest of educational spending. Sure aren't half of them teachers?
I do know a little bit about this - teachers' salaries, especially for new teachers, have been cut very substantially, to the point where the quality of graduates is falling. I think any experienced teacher in a management position will confirm.
Shafting young people is very neoliberal and very couter productive growth wise. There is a kind of silent economic war going on in Ireland between people in their 20s and their public sector parents that seems to me to go against nature. Why would a parent do that to their own child?
Quote from: seafoid on January 05, 2016, 05:23:39 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 05, 2016, 04:55:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 05, 2016, 04:38:52 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 05, 2016, 03:05:01 PM
QuoteFG are a mix of socially progressive and fairly conservative.
So why are they currently (and in fact always have) decimating the education system?
Maybe down to the balance of power within the party? I think they don't have the balls to cut teachers salaries so they cut the rest of educational spending. Sure aren't half of them teachers?
I do know a little bit about this - teachers' salaries, especially for new teachers, have been cut very substantially, to the point where the quality of graduates is falling. I think any experienced teacher in a management position will confirm.
Shafting young people is very neoliberal and very couter productive growth wise. There is a kind of silent economic war going on in Ireland between people in their 20s and their public sector parents that seems to me to go against nature. Why would a parent do that to their own child?
It seems crazily regressive and counter-productive to me for any reason, be it conservative or liberal thinking?
When will the neo Liberals and their stupid ilk ever realise that the best way to have a good economy and subsequent good profits for themselves is to ensure that the ordinary folk have decent money in their pockets?
Ould Henry Ford realised it 100 years ago when he upped wages by a then huge amount. As he may have said - my workers can now afford to buy the cars they are making.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2016, 11:26:01 AM
When will the neo Liberals and their stupid ilk ever realise that the best way to have a good economy and subsequent good profits for themselves is to ensure that the ordinary folk have decent money in their pockets?
Ould Henry Ford realised it 100 years ago when he upped wages by a then huge amount. As he may have said - my workers can now afford to buy the cars they are making.
Well said. But greed overrides reason. And things fall apart
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2016, 11:26:01 AM
When will the neo Liberals and their stupid ilk ever realise that the best way to have a good economy and subsequent good profits for themselves is to ensure that the ordinary folk have decent money in their pockets?
Ould Henry Ford realised it 100 years ago when he upped wages by a then huge amount. As he may have said - my workers can now afford to buy the cars they are making.
Well said. But greed overrides reason. And things fall apart
And voters are 'guided' by media-generated priorities.
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 06, 2016, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2016, 11:26:01 AM
When will the neo Liberals and their stupid ilk ever realise that the best way to have a good economy and subsequent good profits for themselves is to ensure that the ordinary folk have decent money in their pockets?
Ould Henry Ford realised it 100 years ago when he upped wages by a then huge amount. As he may have said - my workers can now afford to buy the cars they are making.
Well said. But greed overrides reason. And things fall apart
And voters are 'guided' by media-generated priorities.
media bought and sold. You might have thought they would have learnt something from 2008. No. Still the same lickarsing to their superiors who are Incoherent. RTE is dreadful.
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 12:58:57 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 06, 2016, 12:27:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2016, 11:26:01 AM
When will the neo Liberals and their stupid ilk ever realise that the best way to have a good economy and subsequent good profits for themselves is to ensure that the ordinary folk have decent money in their pockets?
Ould Henry Ford realised it 100 years ago when he upped wages by a then huge amount. As he may have said - my workers can now afford to buy the cars they are making.
Well said. But greed overrides reason. And things fall apart
And voters are 'guided' by media-generated priorities.
media bought and sold. You might have thought they would have learnt something from 2008. No. Still the same lickarsing to their superiors who are Incoherent. RTE is dreadful.
It's laughable. Pissed myself when I heard Dick Bruton on yesterday about some job creation figures and the biggest threat to job creation is......the election!!!!! They seriously believe this shite.
The election is unreal, not in a GAA sense,more like detached from reality. FG will be talking 24/7 about 7% growth, as if this has anything to do with the real economy where most voters work. Not about multinational transfer pricing from which few benefit, from where the 7% came. Euro zone inflation reported today at 0.2% which is disastrous. QE is not working and another crash is inevitable and will happen sometime in the next Dail causing great suffering amongst the voters. WTF Rte is doing regurgitating neoliberal talking points when the ideology has nothing to offer its viewers and actively works against them. Vote Joe Higgins or Wallace. At least they care about people.
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 05:55:15 PM
The election is unreal, not in a GAA sense,more like detached from reality. FG will be talking 24/7 about 7% growth, as if this has anything to do with the real economy where most voters work. Not about multinational transfer pricing from which few benefit, from where the 7% came.
OK, maybe 2-3% of this growth is transfer pricing or wahtever, but the real economy is growing at 4.5% or so, which is still rather good.
Quote
Euro zone inflation reported today at 0.2% which is disastrous. QE is not working and another crash is inevitable and will happen sometime in the next Dail causing great suffering amongst the voters.
Hardly the Irish government's fault.
QuoteVote Joe Higgins or Wallace. At least they care about people.
Yes, they care about Joe Higgins and Wallace.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 06, 2016, 07:10:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 05:55:15 PM
The election is unreal, not in a GAA sense,more like detached from reality. FG will be talking 24/7 about 7% growth, as if this has anything to do with the real economy where most voters work. Not about multinational transfer pricing from which few benefit, from where the 7% came.
OK, maybe 2-3% of this growth is transfer pricing or wahtever, but the real economy is growing at 4.5% or so, which is still rather good.
QuoteNot sustainable. What is driving growth ? Exports to the UK and elsewhere. And how is the UK doing ? Fucked. Global capitalism is in a severe crisis and inflation well below target is a sign of things much worse to come.
Euro zone inflation reported today at 0.2% which is disastrous. QE is not working and another crash is inevitable and will happen sometime in the next Dail causing great suffering amongst the voters.
Hardly the Irish government's fault.
No. But Irish Gov not ready for anything other than a return to the sunny uplands. Reminds me of 2006.
Reform never happened after the bailout either.
Just look at this ESRI paper. Imagine how shit things are in the Civil Service
http://www.esri.ie/publications/researchers-imply-policymakers-infer-the-relationship-between-evidence-and-policy/
QuoteVote Joe Higgins or Wallace. At least they care about people.
Yes, they care about Joe Higgins and Wallace.
The left wing independents are the only people with a coherent analysis of what is going on. The next 5 years are going to be brutal.
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 07:23:16 PM
The left wing independents are the only people with a coherent analysis of what is going on.
You're having a laugh, aren't you. And even if their analysis had any merit, their solutions do not.
QuoteThe next 5 years are going to be brutal.
Don't you mean the last 5 years.
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 05:55:15 PM
The election is unreal, not in a GAA sense,more like detached from reality. FG will be talking 24/7 about 7% growth, as if this has anything to do with the real economy where most voters work. Not about multinational transfer pricing from which few benefit, from where the 7% came. Euro zone inflation reported today at 0.2% which is disastrous. QE is not working and another crash is inevitable and will happen sometime in the next Dail causing great suffering amongst the voters. WTF Rte is doing regurgitating neoliberal talking points when the ideology has nothing to offer its viewers and actively works against them. Vote Joe Higgins or Wallace. At least they care about people.
Your analysis is very debateable .
Your last line is comical . Joe who I like is retiring . Wallace ???? I take it this is WUM??
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 07:23:16 PM
The next 5 years are going to be brutal.
You might be right. I see the papers talking up property prices again. It seems like every day there's at least one article about some "spectacular" home that's worth a million Euros. That can't be a good sign.
Quote from: ashman on January 06, 2016, 07:28:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 05:55:15 PM
The election is unreal, not in a GAA sense,more like detached from reality. FG will be talking 24/7 about 7% growth, as if this has anything to do with the real economy where most voters work. Not about multinational transfer pricing from which few benefit, from where the 7% came. Euro zone inflation reported today at 0.2% which is disastrous. QE is not working and another crash is inevitable and will happen sometime in the next Dail causing great suffering amongst the voters. WTF Rte is doing regurgitating neoliberal talking points when the ideology has nothing to offer its viewers and actively works against them. Vote Joe Higgins or Wallace. At least they care about people.
Your analysis is very debateable .
Your last line is comical . Joe who I like is retiring . Wallace ???? I take it this is WUM??
Just watch it unfold. The US is also fucked. Most of the OECD countries are bankrupt.
Nice diligent people go to work tomorrow doing their jobs, not tooling around on the internet, focused but accountancy, solvency , interest rates, discount rates / the whole plumbing of modern finance is going to break down.
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 05:55:15 PM
m. Vote Joe Higgins or Wallace. At least they care about people.
Ahhh Seaf.... Have ya lost th'oul marbles altogether :-[
Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2016, 10:11:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 05:55:15 PM
m. Vote Joe Higgins or Wallace. At least they care about people.
Ahhh Seaf.... Have ya lost th'oul marbles altogether :-[
I think the 4 main parties are all wedded to an economic model that is fucked, even if all the respectable "rational" "would you ever cop on" people in the country are still faithful to it . If you look at who has actually stood up for ordinary people against the economic abuses of the last few years it hasn't been the 4 main parties. There was virtually no coherent analysis of the bailout , why it happened, how to prevent a recurrence, how to reform the Civil Service, how to protect ordinary people apart from people RTE and the rest of the media consider cranks. The Shinners talk a good talk but they have no ideas about to improve things. BTW I wouldn't include Ming in this. I think he is a spoofer ;).
The shinners in the border areas are classic neo liberals in that they oppose any state interference , levies , taxes and regulation in commerce.
Quote from: ashman on January 06, 2016, 10:31:37 PM
The shinners in the border areas are classic neo liberals in that they oppose any state interference , levies , taxes and regulation in commerce.
;D ;D
Ming proved to be just a fleeting protest vote illusion Seafoid.
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 07:45:06 PM
Most of the OECD countries are bankrupt.
I'm gonna have to ask for a citation there.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2016, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 06, 2016, 10:31:37 PM
The shinners in the border areas are classic neo liberals in that they oppose any state interference , levies , taxes and regulation in commerce.
;D ;D
Ming proved to be just a fleeting protest vote illusion Seafoid.
So one Protest vote to become a TD and then another protest vote to become an MEP. In your tiny mind anyone who doesn't vote fine gale is using their vote as a protest. Rossfan is a moron.
I'm going to start saying "you're a moron" at the end of every rebuttal to see if it strengthens my argument.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 07, 2016, 02:01:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2016, 07:45:06 PM
Most of the OECD countries are bankrupt.
I'm gonna have to ask for a citation there.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-04/debt-nations
If there is no growth, which is increasingly likely, defaults are inevitable.
seafoid according to you half a million extra jobs in Germany is no problem yet there is going to be economic disaster. One of these statements is suspect.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2016, 06:53:33 AM
seafoid according to you half a million extra jobs in Germany is no problem yet there is going to be economic disaster. One of these statements is suspect.
German population pyramid is a long term play. The next crisis is a short term certainty. Germany will still exist even if the Squid disappears.
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:42:25 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2016, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 06, 2016, 10:31:37 PM
The shinners in the border areas are classic neo liberals in that they oppose any state interference , levies , taxes and regulation in commerce.
;D ;D
Ming proved to be just a fleeting protest vote illusion Seafoid.
So one Protest vote to become a TD and then another protest vote to become an MEP. In your tiny mind anyone who doesn't vote fine gale is using their vote as a protest. Rossfan is a moron.
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/Pot-kettle_zpsglz4gmxj.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/Pot-kettle_zpsglz4gmxj.png.html)
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:42:25 AM
So one Protest vote to become a TD and then another protest vote to become an MEP. In your tiny mind anyone who doesn't vote fine gale is using their vote as a protest. Rossfan is a moron.
Slab Murphy will be voting for Renua, they want to abolish road tax and increase the price of fuel.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2016, 02:56:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 07, 2016, 02:42:25 AM
So one Protest vote to become a TD and then another protest vote to become an MEP. In your tiny mind anyone who doesn't vote fine gale is using their vote as a protest. Rossfan is a moron.
Slab Murphy will be voting for Renua, they want to abolish road tax and increase the price of fuel.
;D :D
That foxeejit should join Renua.
They'd be well suited for spouting total sh1te.
Renua are just disaffected Fine Gaelers.
That plus a rehash of the PDs.
Their candidate in Ros/some of Galway is a sister of the Labour candidate.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 07, 2016, 11:39:16 PM
That plus a rehash of the PDs.
Their candidate in Ros/some of Galway is a sister of the Labour candidate.
[/quote
I am no fan of Renua but surely it is refreshing that the lady does not share the views of her sister .
Do you believe in dynasty politics .
Quote from: ashman on January 08, 2016, 12:01:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 07, 2016, 11:39:16 PM
That plus a rehash of the PDs.
Their candidate in Ros/some of Galway is a sister of the Labour candidate.
[/quote
I am no fan of Renua but surely it is refreshing that the lady does not share the views of her sister .
Do you believe in dynasty politics .
The Labour candidate is her brother ;) and they'll get about 1,000 votes between them if they're lucky so no dynasty.....
I think Renua felt the wind shifting on abortion. The Irish Times women are really pissed off with the status quo on abortion.
so Renua has tacked onto right wing economics.
There's no difference between Labour and FG for that matter.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 08, 2016, 12:55:43 AM
There's no difference between Labour and FG for that matter.
only in terms of interest group fed from the public teat. With labour it is lower grade civil service and with FG higher grade nd business slash farming