Shows a majority of free staters and Catholics in North,do not favour a United Ireland
So it's a case of nationalism with a small n. Countrywide.
Not surprising... We would need to know more about what a United Ireland would look like before we would vote for it.
The mythical paradise of Ireland and Northern Ireland that used to be wanted was only a pipe dream in reality you're looking at higher house prices, private healthcare, water charges, USC and an insurance levy to name but a few things I would not be interested in.
The end of British occupation and equality for all religions seems to be enough for now!
Quote from: screenexile on November 04, 2015, 11:01:51 PM
Not surprising... We would need to know more about what a United Ireland would look like before we would vote for it.
The mythical paradise of Ireland and Northern Ireland that used to be wanted was only a pipe dream in reality you're looking at higher house prices, private healthcare, water charges, USC and an insurance levy to name but a few things I would not be interested in.
The end of British occupation and equality for all religions seems to be enough for now!
If we could get all the fleggers onto Rockall we'd be onto something.
Just home so didn't see it - what were the percentages??
Quote from: Rossfan on November 04, 2015, 11:37:48 PM
Just home so didn't see it - what were the percentages??
Circa 30% in both jurisdictions want a UI at present.
Only 30% in the 26 Cos??
And only two thirds of the Catholic/Nationalist/Irish in the 6 Cos?
Ah well ......we can forget all this 1916 stuff next year and wear poppies instead I suppose :-\ :-[
If that poll showed anything that didn't fit in with people's narratives the show would have lost all credibility.
Bottom line is that there is a democratic mechanism in place for a United Ireland and an ongoing debate. The only way that debate will ever go away is if it does so along with the border.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:01:19 AM
Only 30% in the 26 Cos??
And only two thirds of the Catholic/Nationalist/Irish in the 6 Cos?
Ah well ......we can forget all this 1916 stuff next year and wear poppies instead I suppose :-\ :-[
Rose to 66% 'in their lifetime'. But reduced to 31% if higher taxes. Saddens me but I'm not surprised.
Probably higher than the percentage in favour 100 years ago...
There is only one accurate pole and that is Lewandowski, the f*cker.
Well the good news is that 30% of people have the right idea.
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 12:06:45 AM
There is only one accurate pole and that is Lewandowski, the f*cker.
Very good Muppet, very good indeed lol
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2015, 12:05:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:01:19 AM
Only 30% in the 26 Cos??
And only two thirds of the Catholic/Nationalist/Irish in the 6 Cos?
Ah well ......we can forget all this 1916 stuff next year and wear poppies instead I suppose :-\ :-[
Rose to 66% 'in their lifetime'. But reduced to 31% if higher taxes. Saddens me but I'm not surprised.
Was it for this James Connolly was shot while sitting in a chair?
Time to strip them of their Irish passports unless they pay some tax to the 26 Co State
Debate is pointless this side of Brexit referendum.
Jimmy Deenihan totally out of his depth tonight. It was embarrassing.
Deenihan only being honest.United Ireland unaffordable at present
The biggest anomaly is the fact that the majority of Catholics in the North who don't want a United Ireland currently wouldn't contemplate voting for any unionist party.
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 05, 2015, 02:18:48 AM
Jimmy Deenihan totally out of his depth tonight. It was embarrassing.
Agreed. Painful to watch. He was like a pupil trying to bluff his way out of not having his homework done.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2015, 12:05:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:01:19 AM
Only 30% in the 26 Cos??
And only two thirds of the Catholic/Nationalist/Irish in the 6 Cos?
Ah well ......we can forget all this 1916 stuff next year and wear poppies instead I suppose :-\ :-[
Rose to 66% 'in their lifetime'. But reduced to 31% if higher taxes. Saddens me but I'm not surprised.
Very much of a case of don't rule it out but what is in it for me!
To jump now is very much a jump into the unknown. As has been said on here many times no one has tried to articulate what this New Ireland would look like.
Federal or Central structures? New constitution?
Current or new constituency and council boundaries?
Central or Regional control of services?
Bicameral? STV, PR, First past the post? Role of Head of state?
Rights for minorities (travellers, Gaelic speakers, Orange men)
Universal health care?
10 or 25 year plan to merge governments and align taxation / services
Though it is not for any one party to impose their vision on everyone else, if those parties purporting to be Nationalist (or any body which has the resources and knowledge) could publish a model it could move the conversation beyond If and When to How.
Quote from: T Fearon on November 05, 2015, 07:04:08 AM
Deenihan only being honest.United Ireland unaffordable at present
If a vote was passed tomorrow for a United Ireland, it would be paid for.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2015, 08:25:27 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2015, 12:05:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:01:19 AM
Only 30% in the 26 Cos??
And only two thirds of the Catholic/Nationalist/Irish in the 6 Cos?
Ah well ......we can forget all this 1916 stuff next year and wear poppies instead I suppose :-\ :-[
Rose to 66% 'in their lifetime'. But reduced to 31% if higher taxes. Saddens me but I'm not surprised.
Very much of a case of don't rule it out but what is in it for me!
To jump now is very much a jump into the unknown. As has been said on here many times no one has tried to articulate what this New Ireland would look like.
Federal or Central structures? New constitution?
Current or new constituency and council boundaries?
Central or Regional control of services?
Bicameral? STV, PR, First past the post? Role of Head of state?
Rights for minorities (travellers, Gaelic speakers, Orange men)
Universal health care?
10 or 25 year plan to merge governments and align taxation / services
Though it is not for any one party to impose their vision on everyone else, if those parties purporting to be Nationalist (or any body which has the resources and knowledge) could publish a model it could move the conversation beyond If and When to How.
Sinn Fein have mentioned this 'new Ireland' thing a few times now.
My understanding of the GFA is that if a vote passes for a United Ireland then the 6 counties join the rest of Ireland - am I wrong or right?
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on November 05, 2015, 08:48:02 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 05, 2015, 07:04:08 AM
Deenihan only being honest.United Ireland unaffordable at present
If a vote was passed tomorrow for a United Ireland, it would be paid for.
Yes, with massive tax hikes.
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on November 05, 2015, 08:54:09 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2015, 08:25:27 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2015, 12:05:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:01:19 AM
Only 30% in the 26 Cos??
And only two thirds of the Catholic/Nationalist/Irish in the 6 Cos?
Ah well ......we can forget all this 1916 stuff next year and wear poppies instead I suppose :-\ :-[
Rose to 66% 'in their lifetime'. But reduced to 31% if higher taxes. Saddens me but I'm not surprised.
Very much of a case of don't rule it out but what is in it for me!
To jump now is very much a jump into the unknown. As has been said on here many times no one has tried to articulate what this New Ireland would look like.
Federal or Central structures? New constitution?
Current or new constituency and council boundaries?
Central or Regional control of services?
Bicameral? STV, PR, First past the post? Role of Head of state?
Rights for minorities (travellers, Gaelic speakers, Orange men)
Universal health care?
10 or 25 year plan to merge governments and align taxation / services
Though it is not for any one party to impose their vision on everyone else, if those parties purporting to be Nationalist (or any body which has the resources and knowledge) could publish a model it could move the conversation beyond If and When to How.
Sinn Fein have mentioned this 'new Ireland' thing a few times now.
My understanding of the GFA is that if a vote passes for a United Ireland then the 6 counties join the rest of Ireland - am I wrong or right?
Crucially, the Secretary of State will only call a poll:
if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland. And what does it say for SF's strategy that they've never been so big at the same time that support for unification has arguably never been so low?
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 09:27:51 AM
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
After all that, I thought you were going to say "i would love to rejoin the Union but it aint gona happen!!"
Deiseach these things are available at a much lesser price in the north solely because people in the south of England are being 'rode' to pay for it.
There's no comparison between the 2 economies and the 2 standards of living and that's even with a £10bn subvention propping the north up.
Arlen Foster was on last night with that peculiarly smugly face of hers, proudly talking about protestantism and Britishness. FFS Arlene your people are on their bellies begging the brits for a handout, i don't see what's to be proud of about that. It'd be the best thing ever happened this country if there was a united ireland and we had to pay our way. I don't see why the people of the 26 counties should just take over paying for our lifestyle as the brits do.
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 05, 2015, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on November 05, 2015, 08:48:02 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 05, 2015, 07:04:08 AM
Deenihan only being honest.United Ireland unaffordable at present
If a vote was passed tomorrow for a United Ireland, it would be paid for.
Yes, with massive tax hikes.
Massive? The banking bailout which came to €65bn was entered into without much hesitation.
The current difference between tax take and expenditure in North is <€3bn per annum. With savings from removing duplication of services this would come down.
I don't see how the South would need to make 'massive tax hikes' or even any tax hikes at all for a United Ireland.
Remarks like that make it sound like you're taking on 1.2m dole claimants.
Maybe not 1.2m dole claimants. But in your previous paragraph you mentioned the removal of duplication of public services. That's maybe 150k people either directly or indirectly out of work in the Greater Belfast area. Plus the 50k or so who are always unemployed up here. Plus, by removing the border and the various moneymaking opportunities it provides (legal and illegal), that's several thousand more.
Quote from: T Fearon on November 05, 2015, 07:04:08 AM
Deenihan only being honest.United Ireland unaffordable at present
Partition would also appear to be unaffordable for the north at present.
Quote from: Keyser soze on November 05, 2015, 10:08:52 AM
Deiseach these things are available at a much lesser price in the north solely because people in the south of England are being 'rode' to pay for it.
There's no comparison between the 2 economies and the 2 standards of living and that's even with a £10bn subvention propping the north up.
Arlen Foster was on last night with that peculiarly smugly face of hers, proudly talking about protestantism and Britishness. FFS Arlene your people are on their bellies begging the brits for a handout, i don't see what's to be proud of about that. It'd be the best thing ever happened this country if there was a united ireland and we had to pay our way. I don't see why the people of the 26 counties should just take over paying for our lifestyle as the brits do.
I hear ya. Joe Lee once masterfully skewered the pretensions of Unionism to thrifty self-sufficiency when he pointed out how the begging bowl that went out to Westminster in the post-war years was characterised by Stormont as being "scientific Ulster subsidies" ;D
Quote from: stibhan on November 05, 2015, 10:30:12 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on November 05, 2015, 07:04:08 AM
Deenihan only being honest.United Ireland unaffordable at present
Partition would also appear to be unaffordable for the north at present.
That was one thing stood out for me. There was almost a Unionist pride in being unaffordable. Basically how can 6m of you afford us when we are a drain on 65m.
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 09:27:51 AM
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
Have you spent much time in the UK?
The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.
As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?
Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:28:35 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2015, 12:05:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:01:19 AM
Only 30% in the 26 Cos??
And only two thirds of the Catholic/Nationalist/Irish in the 6 Cos?
Ah well ......we can forget all this 1916 stuff next year and wear poppies instead I suppose :-\ :-[
Rose to 66% 'in their lifetime'. But reduced to 31% if higher taxes. Saddens me but I'm not surprised.
Was it for this James Connolly was shot while sitting in a chair?
Time to strip them of their Irish passports unless they pay some tax to the 26 Co State
Did it drop to 31% in the North or the south?
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 09:27:51 AM
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
Have you spent much time in the UK?
The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.
As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?
Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.
+1.
And by the time the current Brit Government leaves office things will be a lot worse for the poorer people and areas.
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 09:27:51 AM
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
Have you spent much time in the UK?
The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.
As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?
Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/01/daily-chart (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index)
One thing was very clear last night. Sinn Fein's strategy for getting a UI, if they ever had one, isn't working. They appear to have turned off a large swathe of nationalist opinion to the idea of a UI.
Was a lot of extreme views from both sides - it would work easy, it would never work.
The professor on the RTE panel was the only one talking sense, when he said that before any vote, there would have to be clear and transparent information available for everyone to see exactly what they where voting for.
Under current governments could we ever see a case where they would be agreement on what exactly was the roadmap? Even if there was an agreement do we trust that they could deliver it or even stick to what was agreed?
People would be very fearful of agreeing to anything without knowledge of what they voting for. That's why a poll is all when and good but even the simple matter of paying more tax completely changes things, its clear that if people see the changes affecting their own wee corner its an entirely different matter.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 11:16:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 09:27:51 AM
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
Have you spent much time in the UK?
The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.
As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?
Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.
+1.
And by the time the current Brit Government leaves office things will be a lot worse for the poorer people and areas.
+1
Quote from: Bingo on November 05, 2015, 11:36:00 AM
Was a lot of extreme views from both sides - it would work easy, it would never work.
The professor on the RTE panel was the only one talking sense, when he said that before any vote, there would have to be clear and transparent information available for everyone to see exactly what they where voting for.
Under current governments could we ever see a case where they would be agreement on what exactly was the roadmap? Even if there was an agreement do we trust that they could deliver it or even stick to what was agreed?
People would be very fearful of agreeing to anything without knowledge of what they voting for. That's why a poll is all when and good but even the simple matter of paying more tax completely changes things, its clear that if people see the changes affecting their own wee corner its an entirely different matter.
I also thought that what Sinn Finn were saying last night as well?
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 09:27:51 AM
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
Have you spent much time in the UK?
The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.
As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?
Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.
The economy in the north is under serious strain, the conflict and indeed post conflict eras have be dominated by sectarian politics. Real issues never seem to actually get dealt with, as politicians realise that despite arguments to the contrary , the electorate continues to vote on traditional lines, and in order to get re-elected they really don't want to be upsetting the status quo. If you ask most people what they are really concerned about , it's their cost and standard of living, jobs, health and education , but when it comes to voting these real issues aren't a factor, as ultimately both sides feel they have been wronged over the years, and are not yet at a stage when they are prepared to risk voting for "the other lot" because they don't trust them.
Those that are critical of the ROI economy should reflect on several independent parameters in which ROI scores very well. There is no doubt that ROI economy has been held back by the presence of the border etc, but you only have to look at things like educational achievement, infrastructure, overseas aid contribution , technology etc to realise how well ROI has done despite being on an island isolated from the rest of Europe . Those that are critical of the ROI economy in comparison to the UK, would do well to remember , that just over 50 years before the foundation of the state , under British jurisdiction millions of our ancestors died or emigrated . To be fair Ireland had to get up of its knees to recover from the famine, and when you consider how we have punched well above our weight in most aspects of a developed society , it's impossible not to feel very proud! I have several relatives in the UK and they would find your unsolicited praise of UK society laughable!
Quote from: shawshank on November 05, 2015, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: Bingo on November 05, 2015, 11:36:00 AM
Was a lot of extreme views from both sides - it would work easy, it would never work.
The professor on the RTE panel was the only one talking sense, when he said that before any vote, there would have to be clear and transparent information available for everyone to see exactly what they where voting for.
Under current governments could we ever see a case where they would be agreement on what exactly was the roadmap? Even if there was an agreement do we trust that they could deliver it or even stick to what was agreed?
People would be very fearful of agreeing to anything without knowledge of what they voting for. That's why a poll is all when and good but even the simple matter of paying more tax completely changes things, its clear that if people see the changes affecting their own wee corner its an entirely different matter.
I also thought that what Sinn Finn were saying last night as well?
It was hard to know what they or some of the others where saying as Nolan kept shouting at people to answer Yes or No.
The parties where saying this somewhat but it was clear that they had their own view on this and not any cross party thoughts or ideas that would be reality.
Also, people suggesting there would be savings from joining up, synergys in the public sector, etc. Really? The public sector? Savings? Couldn't see it in a million years. Public sector already bloated and controlled by unions in many sectors and can't see this changing anytime soon. If anything they'd be looking increases and payments for change in work practices.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2015, 08:25:27 AM
. As has been said on here many times no one has tried to articulate what this New Ireland would look like.
Federal or Central structures? New constitution?
Current or new constituency and council boundaries?
Central or Regional control of services?
Bicameral? STV, PR, First past the post? Role of Head of state?
Rights for minorities (travellers, Gaelic speakers, Orange men)
Universal health care?
10 or 25 year plan to merge governments and align taxation / services
While no Political party ever outlines what a UI might look like - I have on several occasions over the years on this Board.
I proposed a Confederacy of two semi Autonomous regions - present 6 and 26 Cos each with control over various internal affairs run by slimmed down Stormont and Dáil.
Of course there would be a new Constitution with a new Flag and Anthem.( 26 Cos could keep A na bhF and Tricolour while the 6 remain with neither flag or anyhem )
Probably 6 Regional Councils in the 26 and 3 "Cantons" in the 6 Cos.
A Bicarmel system -
with 10 seats reserved for the Dáil and 10 for Stormont on the De Hondt system in the "House of Representatives", other 80 elected via current PR system ( approx 1 Seat per 80,000 people)
A "Senate" of 50 with seats reserved for minority groups ( say 10), the other 40 directly elected.
A joint 3 man " Confederate Presidency" of Dáil Ceann Comhairle plus Speaker and Deputy Speaker from Stormont who would be largely ceremonial and live at home and just get an extra allowance for their Presidential duties.
Obviously a major transitional plan required to implement and pay for that but by the time it starts to happen (2040?? ) the 26 Co economy should be over the Bail Out hangover and the 6 Cos ought to have an economy by then.
No doubt the EU/US would help out while the Brits/English will no doubt set up a "Thanksgiving fund" ( Thanks God we got rid of that effin place and we will pay anything to make sure it doesnt come back :D)
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on November 05, 2015, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 11:16:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 09:27:51 AM
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
Have you spent much time in the UK?
The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.
As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?
Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.
+1.
And by the time the current Brit Government leaves office things will be a lot worse for the poorer people and areas.
+1
so let me get this straight, as far as governments go, you all think that Enda Kenny and co, or Fianna FAIL before them, are better than the UK government?!?
and how would you come to the conclusion that the pound is NOT stronger than the euro??
its not necessarily a rant about our government, its highlighting that if i was living in the north, i would not like to join the current quagmire that is Irish politics!
i also have relatives in the UK as most here probably would, one in particular who was pretty much raised over there but is living here now due to family reasons. he can not believe how we pay for things like bins/fire services/ambulances/doctors/prescriptions/water. the mark up price of everything from the UK, school costs, the list goes on.
politicians do nothing except line their own pockets. healthcare here is a disgrace. i could go on. but whats the point!
How is the pound stronger than the Euro?
What does £14 buy that €20 doesn't.
People in the € area no more than in Canada, US. Australia, China don't have to change their currency to GB£s before they can buy anything.
Do I detect a colonial mindset hangover? ?
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on November 05, 2015, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 11:16:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 05, 2015, 09:27:51 AM
what a complete utter waste of time ::)
very few people, if any, mentioned one of the main reasons it will never happen.
the simple fact that the UK government is better than ours!
free healthcare, better schools, the pound is way better than the euro. etc things like bins/water etc is all paid in one fairly priced lumpsum, where as here, we pay for all that separately, bins, fire services/ambulances etc all paid separately and we are rode for everything. why would anyone up north want to go away from what they have to something worse??! im sure there are a few up north who would think about a United Ireland if they could keep the conditions they have or get better, but that wont happen!
sure, they have their own issues with government but not to the extent we have it!
i would love to see a United Ireland but it aint gona happen!!
Have you spent much time in the UK?
The bits that I have seen are holes. The average standard of living seems to be a lot lower, just eyeballing the towns I've been in. Some things are better, possibly healthcare, but schools? I work with a lot of English educated lads and I don't see any evidence of a superior education system. Far from it.
As for the pound being better than the euro. How have you come to this conclusion?
Your post is a rant against the government here, fair enough. But it is very easy to find people in the UK who will give the exact same rant. The UK economy is generated mainly by London. Large parts of rest of it are a mess.
+1.
And by the time the current Brit Government leaves office things will be a lot worse for the poorer people and areas.
+1
so let me get this straight, as far as governments go, you all think that Enda Kenny and co, or Fianna FAIL before them, are better than the UK government?!?
and how would you come to the conclusion that the pound is NOT stronger than the euro??
its not necessarily a rant about our government, its highlighting that if i was living in the north, i would not like to join the current quagmire that is Irish politics!
i also have relatives in the UK as most here probably would, one in particular who was pretty much raised over there but is living here now due to family reasons. he can not believe how we pay for things like bins/fire services/ambulances/doctors/prescriptions/water. the mark up price of everything from the UK, school costs, the list goes on.
politicians do nothing except line their own pockets. healthcare here is a disgrace. i could go on. but whats the point!
The Irish economy was the worst in Europe just over 100 years ago. We were the poorest part of Europe in the 1890s. We still had localised famines where people starved. All under British Rule.
Your argument is a rant about bad government.
It has nothing to do with a United Ireland.
As for your proclamation that the pound was stronger than the euro, when I queried that, you come back with this:
"and how would you come to the conclusion that the pound is NOT stronger than the euro??"The Euro is the worlds second reserve currency, after the dollar. but it is closing.
Currency composition of official foreign exchange reserves : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency)
Dollar 63.8%
Euro 20.5%
Pound 4.7%
People in Britain pay for bins. Do you not remember the poll tax riots? That's what they were about, and the council tax that has replaced it is universally loathed. They pay for water pretty much everywhere and fire service call out charges are imposed in a scattergun fashion, just as they are here. The health service is free at the point of use all right, and personally I'd love to see that here. But it sure as hell ain't 'free', unless you think all those Florence Nightingales are doing it as an act of charity. As for sterling being better than the euro, that's an argument for the return of the punt, not for rejoining a currency union with the UK.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:50:29 PM
How is the pound stronger than the Euro?
What does £14 buy that €20 doesn't.
People in the € area no more than in Canada, US. Australia, China don't have to change their currency to GB£s before they can buy anything.
Do I detect a colonial mindset hangover? ?
All I know is I was in Blanch and went to buy a set of golf balls out of Sports World and it was going to cost me €17...
Went up to Sportsdirect in Armagh and the same item was £9.99... the rate at the time was 1.41. Someone explain that to me!!!
Quote from: shawshank on November 05, 2015, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: Bingo on November 05, 2015, 11:36:00 AM
Was a lot of extreme views from both sides - it would work easy, it would never work.
The professor on the RTE panel was the only one talking sense, when he said that before any vote, there would have to be clear and transparent information available for everyone to see exactly what they where voting for.
Under current governments could we ever see a case where they would be agreement on what exactly was the roadmap? Even if there was an agreement do we trust that they could deliver it or even stick to what was agreed?
People would be very fearful of agreeing to anything without knowledge of what they voting for. That's why a poll is all when and good but even the simple matter of paying more tax completely changes things, its clear that if people see the changes affecting their own wee corner its an entirely different matter.
I also thought that what Sinn Finn were saying last night as well?
The small piece of it that I saw, that's exactly what Pierce Doherty said.
Too many unknowns on both sides need to be battered out before anyone could make an informed decision.
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2015, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:50:29 PM
How is the pound stronger than the Euro?
What does £14 buy that €20 doesn't.
People in the € area no more than in Canada, US. Australia, China don't have to change their currency to GB£s before they can buy anything.
Do I detect a colonial mindset hangover? ?
All I know is I was in Blanch and went to buy a set of golf balls out of Sports World and it was going to cost me €17...
Went up to Sportsdirect in Armagh and the same item was £9.99... the rate at the time was 1.41. Someone explain that to me!!!
Sports Direct is better value than Sports World when purchasing golf balls
Quote from: laceer on November 05, 2015, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2015, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:50:29 PM
How is the pound stronger than the Euro?
What does £14 buy that €20 doesn't.
People in the € area no more than in Canada, US. Australia, China don't have to change their currency to GB£s before they can buy anything.
Do I detect a colonial mindset hangover? ?
All I know is I was in Blanch and went to buy a set of golf balls out of Sports World and it was going to cost me €17...
Went up to Sportsdirect in Armagh and the same item was £9.99... the rate at the time was 1.41. Someone explain that to me!!!
Sports Direct is better value than Sports World when purchasing golf balls
Bollix. A new world order can extrapolated from important info such as the sticker price on golf balls.
The simple point is that a united Ireland should come about without worrying about money. The unfortunate thing is that this is the British government we are dealing with here and by god they know how to run a good PR program to scare people into voting for what they want. The young Catholic in the north will not vote with the heart but with what someone will tell them.
Quote from: laceer on November 05, 2015, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 05, 2015, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 12:50:29 PM
How is the pound stronger than the Euro?
What does £14 buy that €20 doesn't.
People in the € area no more than in Canada, US. Australia, China don't have to change their currency to GB£s before they can buy anything.
Do I detect a colonial mindset hangover? ?
All I know is I was in Blanch and went to buy a set of golf balls out of Sports World and it was going to cost me €17...
Went up to Sportsdirect in Armagh and the same item was £9.99... the rate at the time was 1.41. Someone explain that to me!!!
Sports Direct is better value than Sports World when purchasing golf balls
Stop wasting your life and your money playing effn golf. Go for a good walk instead.
My cousin in England pays £1200 pa in Council Tax and £330 pa for water.
That's as near to €2,200 as makes no differ. He was out of work due to an illness and was getting £300 per MONTH.
For what it's worth I pay over £1200 per annum in Rates (Property Tax) and my residence is no castle.I even get a breakdown as to how my money is spent both regionally and local council level.Being a non user of the health service and deriving no direct benefit from things like leisure facilities or economic development (tell that to the Michelin workers in Ballymena), it seems I am paying solely for environmental services,or having my bins emptied,once a fortnight rotationally.
Quote from: T Fearon on November 05, 2015, 02:25:26 PM
For what it's worth I pay over £1200 per annum in Rates (Property Tax) and my residence is no castle.I even get a breakdown as to how my money is spent both regionally and local council level.Being a non user of the health service and deriving no direct benefit from things like leisure facilities or economic development (tell that to the Michelin workers in Ballymena), it seems I am paying solely for environmental services,or having my bins emptied,once a fortnight rotationally.
Your right about that :D
Just watched the show at lunch time there, so I now have indigestion! A couple of points. On a UI, Nolan very unfair to both Doherty and Hanna. The question is very simplistic and can't be answered in a yes or no fashion. Reaching a UI will take time and reconciliation across the divide here and the border. It will also depend on Brexit and the look of the UK going forward. It is no stretch of the imagination to suggest that the ROI might find itself seeking closer ties with the UK as this whole European question moves on and immigration, the euro etc puts on pressure. I for one would aspire to a UI but not if the UVF react as the Provos did in the late '60's. Nor would I want to accept every aspect of the ROI as it stands in terms of taxation and health etc, although our own health service is going in the direction of that in ROI because of Tory cuts and affordability. The North is an economic basket case and that needs to change as well. In short the question did not give us any answers. On Jimmy Deenihan, he was a better footballer than a politician, out of his depth. Nolan also allowed Forster to claim the poll as positive on the border whilst ignore it on same sex marriage and abortion, out of his depth as well and came across as a self promoting bully. Susan McKay and Patricia McBride as well as the Prof from UCD(?) were probably the best contributors. Young Hanna was largely ignored. In short overhyped waste of time.
Have SF / SDLP set any sort of framework in regards how a UI would take place? SNP had a white paper, have either of these parties produced something similar?
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2015, 03:04:20 PM
Just watched the show at lunch time there, so I now have indigestion! A couple of points. On a UI, Nolan very unfair to both Doherty and Hanna. The question is very simplistic and can't be answered in a yes or no fashion. Reaching a UI will take time and reconciliation across the divide here and the border. It will also depend on Brexit and the look of the UK going forward. It is no stretch of the imagination to suggest that the ROI might find itself seeking closer ties with the UK as this whole European question moves on and immigration, the euro etc puts on pressure. I for one would aspire to a UI but not if the UVF react as the Provos did in the late '60's. Nor would I want to accept every aspect of the ROI as it stands in terms of taxation and health etc, although our own health service is going in the direction of that in ROI because of Tory cuts and affordability. The North is an economic basket case and that needs to change as well. In short the question did not give us any answers. On Jimmy Deenihan, he was a better footballer than a politician, out of his depth. Nolan also allowed Forster to claim the poll as positive on the border whilst ignore it on same sex marriage and abortion, out of his depth as well and came across as a self promoting bully. Susan McKay and Patricia McBride as well as the Prof from UCD(?) were probably the best contributors. Young Hanna was largely ignored. In short overhyped waste of time.
This would be logical, in the way that the Scandinavian countries align on a lot of mutually beneficial issues, for example SAS Airlines. This wouldn't dilute their own sense of nationalism in any way.
The evident presumption, especially from Nolan and the Northern contributors, but also from Southern panel and audience, that NI will need an ongoing massive subvention is breathtaking. The Southern economy, for all it's woes, pulled itself up by it's bootstraps, and appears to be doing so again, and the North needs to do the same.
The problem here is that NI plc is bust and will continue walking around with a begging bowl expecting it to be filled as of right instead of getting off their asses and doing something about it as everyone in a real country and econony does.
The programme last night served to show just how dysfunctional this place is.
Quote from: general_lee on November 05, 2015, 03:35:10 PM
Have SF / SDLP set any sort of framework in regards how a UI would take place? SNP had a white paper, have either of these parties produced something similar?
No and its something they need to do together so don't hold your breath.
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 03:52:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2015, 03:04:20 PM
Just watched the show at lunch time there, so I now have indigestion! A couple of points. On a UI, Nolan very unfair to both Doherty and Hanna. The question is very simplistic and can't be answered in a yes or no fashion. Reaching a UI will take time and reconciliation across the divide here and the border. It will also depend on Brexit and the look of the UK going forward. It is no stretch of the imagination to suggest that the ROI might find itself seeking closer ties with the UK as this whole European question moves on and immigration, the euro etc puts on pressure. I for one would aspire to a UI but not if the UVF react as the Provos did in the late '60's. Nor would I want to accept every aspect of the ROI as it stands in terms of taxation and health etc, although our own health service is going in the direction of that in ROI because of Tory cuts and affordability. The North is an economic basket case and that needs to change as well. In short the question did not give us any answers. On Jimmy Deenihan, he was a better footballer than a politician, out of his depth. Nolan also allowed Forster to claim the poll as positive on the border whilst ignore it on same sex marriage and abortion, out of his depth as well and came across as a self promoting bully. Susan McKay and Patricia McBride as well as the Prof from UCD(?) were probably the best contributors. Young Hanna was largely ignored. In short overhyped waste of time.
This would be logical, in the way that the Scandinavian countries align on a lot of mutually beneficial issues, for example SAS Airlines. This wouldn't dilute their own sense of nationalism in any way.
didn't say it would
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2015, 04:51:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 05, 2015, 03:52:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2015, 03:04:20 PM
Just watched the show at lunch time there, so I now have indigestion! A couple of points. On a UI, Nolan very unfair to both Doherty and Hanna. The question is very simplistic and can't be answered in a yes or no fashion. Reaching a UI will take time and reconciliation across the divide here and the border. It will also depend on Brexit and the look of the UK going forward. It is no stretch of the imagination to suggest that the ROI might find itself seeking closer ties with the UK as this whole European question moves on and immigration, the euro etc puts on pressure. I for one would aspire to a UI but not if the UVF react as the Provos did in the late '60's. Nor would I want to accept every aspect of the ROI as it stands in terms of taxation and health etc, although our own health service is going in the direction of that in ROI because of Tory cuts and affordability. The North is an economic basket case and that needs to change as well. In short the question did not give us any answers. On Jimmy Deenihan, he was a better footballer than a politician, out of his depth. Nolan also allowed Forster to claim the poll as positive on the border whilst ignore it on same sex marriage and abortion, out of his depth as well and came across as a self promoting bully. Susan McKay and Patricia McBride as well as the Prof from UCD(?) were probably the best contributors. Young Hanna was largely ignored. In short overhyped waste of time.
This would be logical, in the way that the Scandinavian countries align on a lot of mutually beneficial issues, for example SAS Airlines. This wouldn't dilute their own sense of nationalism in any way.
didn't say it would
I know, that comment was meant for our more sensitive posters. :D
Some points I took from the show:
1: Nolan is an idiot, self promoting, bully-boy attitude to interviews.
2: Shocked at how Foster reveled in the fact that the north requires 9.8 Billion from the UK treasury to stay afloat, she seemed to take pride from the fact!
3: Sinn Fein make a very good point, it's not so much a united Ireland, it's a new Ireland where everything and anything is up for discussion.
4: 900,000 so called Unionists would have a much greater say in a new Ireland structure than what they currently have in the UK.
5: Poor Jimmy Deenihan succumbed to the bullying of Nolan.
6: The UI discussion is firmly on the table and won't be going away any time soon.
Nolan as a host should be impartial, but he was obviously rubbishing any idea of any sort of a United Ireland. He wouldn't even let the SF representatives speak. But he does work for the BRITISH Broadcasting Coporation, so it's his duty to push the British government's agenda.
Was Jimmy Deenihan as easily bullied in his playing days?
What was the point of Miriam?
Thought it funny when Nolan asked Foster her nationality, she obviously replied British. Yet she supports Ireland in rugby when playing British countries.
Quote from: thebigfella on November 06, 2015, 02:05:44 PM
What was the point of Miriam?
Good question. She should have asked some hard questions of Foster when she was on about the cost to the UK taxpayer. But RTE being RTE, well they give everybody an easy ride apart from SF.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2015, 02:10:58 PM
Thought it funny when Nolan asked Foster her nationality, she obviously replied British. Yet she supports Ireland in rugby when playing British countries.
Saw a funny clip somewhere of Sammy Wilson telling some English interviewer in Belfast he was British.
She replied " You 'ere on holidye then? ;D
Miriam was there because she has blonde hair and blue eyes.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 06, 2015, 03:04:46 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2015, 02:10:58 PM
Thought it funny when Nolan asked Foster her nationality, she obviously replied British. Yet she supports Ireland in rugby when playing British countries.
Saw a funny clip somewhere of Sammy Wilson telling some English interviewer in Belfast he was British.
She replied " You 'ere on holidye then? ;D
Miriam was there because she has blonde hair and blue eyes.
That was Ali G
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 05, 2015, 03:04:20 PM
Just watched the show at lunch time there, so I now have indigestion! A couple of points. On a UI, Nolan very unfair to both Doherty and Hanna. The question is very simplistic and can't be answered in a yes or no fashion. Reaching a UI will take time and reconciliation across the divide here and the border. It will also depend on Brexit and the look of the UK going forward. It is no stretch of the imagination to suggest that the ROI might find itself seeking closer ties with the UK as this whole European question moves on and immigration, the euro etc puts on pressure. I for one would aspire to a UI but not if the UVF react as the Provos did in the late '60's. Nor would I want to accept every aspect of the ROI as it stands in terms of taxation and health etc, although our own health service is going in the direction of that in ROI because of Tory cuts and affordability. The North is an economic basket case and that needs to change as well. In short the question did not give us any answers. On Jimmy Deenihan, he was a better footballer than a politician, out of his depth. Nolan also allowed Forster to claim the poll as positive on the border whilst ignore it on same sex marriage and abortion, out of his depth as well and came across as a self promoting bully. Susan McKay and Patricia McBride as well as the Prof from UCD(?) were probably the best contributors. Young Hanna was largely ignored. In short overhyped waste of time.
It is an interesting topic though as the status quo comes under pressure and new formulations start to be considered.
NI has the vulnerability of not being able to fund itself.
Quote from: laceer on November 06, 2015, 03:12:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 06, 2015, 03:04:46 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2015, 02:10:58 PM
Thought it funny when Nolan asked Foster her nationality, she obviously replied British. Yet she supports Ireland in rugby when playing British countries.
Saw a funny clip somewhere of Sammy Wilson telling some English interviewer in Belfast he was British.
She replied " You 'ere on holidye then? ;D
Miriam was there because she has blonde hair and blue eyes.
That was Ali G
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCNG5UeKMZw
(2:40)
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2015, 02:10:58 PM
Thought it funny when Nolan asked Foster her nationality, she obviously replied British. Yet she supports Ireland in rugby when playing British countries.
Not that funny tbh. The Ireland team represents Northern Ireland in rugby, many of whom would also identify themselves as British.
Quote from: michaelg on November 06, 2015, 05:48:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2015, 02:10:58 PM
Thought it funny when Nolan asked Foster her nationality, she obviously replied British. Yet she supports Ireland in rugby when playing British countries.
Not that funny tbh. The Ireland team represents Northern Ireland in rugby, many of whom would also identify themselves as British.
North and South.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2015, 06:20:53 PM
Quote from: michaelg on November 06, 2015, 05:48:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 06, 2015, 02:10:58 PM
Thought it funny when Nolan asked Foster her nationality, she obviously replied British. Yet she supports Ireland in rugby when playing British countries.
Not that funny tbh. The Ireland team represents Northern Ireland in rugby, many of whom would also identify themselves as British.
North and South.
;D ;D ;D
Number of points I had on the show.
I have to say I was completely embarrassed at the pride that Arlene Foster seemed to take in Our need for handouts from the UK government. Day by day I become more complexed by the ability of the DUP to actually get the amount of votes they do.
As someone who in the last few years has had a growing desire to explore my Irishness on top of my Britishness it is clear why we had The lower than expected number of those in favour of a UI at present in NI. For me this has to be down to the fact that both SF and SDLP have really failed to sell the benefits we would have from joining a UI.
Another point really not mentioned was the very low % of Protestants in support of UI. There is a reason that only 3% of Protestant people would want a UI at present. For many its simply down to Culture however for others who might well have contemplated it, the worst thing to ever happen in trying to achieve it is the aggressive politicking of SF up North. SF have a conception of Irishness that they believe we must all sign up to. Im very proud now to call my self Irish/N Irish but I feel that SF have created a stereotype of what they deem acceptable to be that i.e Tricolour, Irish anthem etc and this just isn't my type of Irishness.
Finally the most disappointing thing about the whole show was the fact that the NI poll was separated into Protestants and Catholics. How can we really hope to get away from sectarian headcounts when we continue to promote them.
It would've been interesting to see what the poll would've said had the Irish Government not managed to f**k up a very successful economy with poor bank regulations leading to an unstable property market.
If the collapse hadn't been so disastrous a lot of nationalists would be a bit more pro unification. Well done Bertie.
Bertie, FF the builders' party, McCreevy and the PDs managed to put an extra 20 years to the timescale for the new All Ireland political entity.
Shower of fckrs >:(
Quote from: snoopdog on November 06, 2015, 08:07:21 PM
It would've been interesting to see what the poll would've said had the Irish Government not managed to f**k up a very successful economy with poor bank regulations leading to an unstable property market.
If the collapse hadn't been so disastrous a lot of nationalists would be a bit more pro unification. Well done Bertie.
That's smart thinking, blame Bertie for fickle nordies reevaluating the pennies in their greasy till and kowtowing towards their acquired/imposed british nationality.
Is their some cost benefit analysis that affects nordies' willingness to vote to leave the UK?
Quote from: Main Street on November 07, 2015, 12:51:14 AM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 06, 2015, 08:07:21 PM
It would've been interesting to see what the poll would've said had the Irish Government not managed to f**k up a very successful economy with poor bank regulations leading to an unstable property market.
If the collapse hadn't been so disastrous a lot of nationalists would be a bit more pro unification. Well done Bertie.
That's smart thinking, blame Bertie for fickle nordies reevaluating the pennies in their greasy till and kowtowing towards their acquired/imposed british nationality.
Is their some cost benefit analysis that affects nordies' willingness to vote to leave the UK?
Do you honestly think Bertie caused the economic crisis? I think it's derogatory comments like that that makes Northern Catholics think maybe their better off not being part of a United ireland.
So ye don't want to be part of the YUK, ye now don't want to be part of an All Ireland political entity..... So what the fcuk do ye want????
Quote from: Rossfan on November 06, 2015, 09:53:36 PM
Bertie, FF the builders' party, McCreevy and the PDs managed to put an extra 20 years to the timescale for the new All Ireland political entity.
Shower of fckrs >:(
Ever read about northern rock , RBS , Barclays etc from 2007 to 2009 ??
Britian too had a crash ... The real austerity kicking in there.
Quote from: balladmaker on November 06, 2015, 01:28:59 PM
Some points I took from the show:
1: Nolan is an idiot, self promoting, bully-boy attitude to interviews.
2: Shocked at how Foster reveled in the fact that the north requires 9.8 Billion from the UK treasury to stay afloat, she seemed to take pride from the fact!
3: Sinn Fein make a very good point, it's not so much a united Ireland, it's a new Ireland where everything and anything is up for discussion.
4: 900,000 so called Unionists would have a much greater say in a new Ireland structure than what they currently have in the UK.
5: Poor Jimmy Deenihan succumbed to the bullying of Nolan.
6: The UI discussion is firmly on the table and won't be going away any time soon.
1; He is not an idiot . A bit of a bollix granted.
2. : Agreed .
3 : Wishy washy tripe from SF . A big move from the "32 County Socialist Republic".
4 : they don't want a say in a UI.
5 ; Deenihan was not well enough briefed to stand up to SN.
6 : the who UI debate is pointless until the Brexit referendum. I am taking a kind of pleasure telling my party political friends that Brexit referendum will be more important for Ireland than the Dail and Stormount elections in 2016.
It's obvious that if a united Ireland is going to cost more for the ordinary person north or south then why would you vote for it. It's a romantic idea but if it takes more of a family who need it to raise children and pay the mortgage then they will vote against it. Unification will be seen as another tax on people both sides of the border. A quick example of an increase for the 6 county people is 20% on the cost of buying a car. Wages are lower in the north compared to the south so overnight is a job that pays 18,000 in Coleraine going to rise to the level in the south? It would remain a poor relation to Dublin as does the rest if ireland. As it currently does in the UK to south of England.
Personally I'd love a United Ireland I'm from the North living in Dublin and it's no contest as to where there is better oppurtunity I see both sides and the argument when bigotry and sectarianism is taken out of it is how much will it cost me.
Not much of a patriotism if it simply boils down to cost dependency.Following that logic why doesn't the freestate apologise for the Rising and beg the Brits to take them back?
By the way I got a glimpse last December of the enigma that is Stephen Nolan at Old Trafford of all places.Was watching Utd V Liverpool (comp prize of course!) in a prime viewing area in the stadium,but was amazed at an empty seat to my immediate left.Ten minutes after kick off the bold Stephen appears and sits down,merely nodding at my greeting ( I expected a gregarious extrovert response to a fellow Ulsterman's accent).He proceeded to spend the vast majority of the time playing on his mobile phone,remained alone in his seat during the interval,while the rest of us repaired to the lounges for free hospitality and muttered a cheerio to us as he left ten minutes before the final whistle.Totally opposite from the media persona.
Quote from: T Fearon on November 07, 2015, 09:30:57 AM
Not much of a patriotism if it simply boils down to cost dependency.Following that logic why doesn't the freestate apologise for the Rising and beg the Brits to take them back?
As the "Free State" 1922, Eire/Ireland1937, and the Republic of Ireland 1949, were all established after 1916 we can't apologise for it.
Maybe the last of the diehards "Republican Sinn Féin" will.
Quote from: T Fearon on November 07, 2015, 09:43:23 AM
By the way I got a glimpse last December of the enigma that is Stephen Nolan at Old Trafford of all places.Was watching Utd V Liverpool (comp prize of course!) in a prime viewing area in the stadium,but was amazed at an empty seat to my immediate left.Ten minutes after kick off the bold Stephen appears and sits down,merely nodding at my greeting ( I expected a gregarious extrovert response to a fellow Ulsterman's accent).He proceeded to spend the vast majority of the time playing on his mobile phone,remained alone in his seat during the interval,while the rest of us repaired to the lounges for free hospitality and muttered a cheerio to us as he left ten minutes before the final whistle.Totally opposite from the media persona.
Thought it was poor bullying Deenihan...who subsequently appeared backward as f**k to many up here
Quote from: snoopdog on November 06, 2015, 08:07:21 PM
It would've been interesting to see what the poll would've said had the Irish Government not managed to f**k up a very successful economy with poor bank regulations leading to an unstable property market.
If the collapse hadn't Ben so disastrous a lot of nationalists would be a bit more pro unification. Well done Bertie.
The problem was excessive borrowing. It had to be paid back.
Crash was inevitable post McCreevy IMO.
Jimmy Deenihan,a member of the Kerry golden era side,being bullied? Don't make me laugh.He was thrown a curveball and had two choices,to answer dishonestly and lose all credibility or to do as he did,answer honestly and not insult the intelligence of viewers.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12208463_10153777458763383_553379580294592731_n.jpg?oh=0d91c2b897c857fcfea8762e77699d8f&oe=56B449B6)
What's going on here then? :o
An interesting take on this:
Newton Emerson @NewtonEmerson 2h2 hours ago
Left wing think-tank concedes united Ireland would need a right-wing economy. Also, debunks SF's subvention denial. http://www.nerinstitute.net/blog/2015/11/06/the-fiscal-implications-of-irish-unity/
What the 6 counties needs is a functioning economy, it is unlikely that the shape of that functioning economy would be much different form the 26 counties and so not an issue in unity. Unfortunately it is operating in handout mode and content to stay that way.
This poll occurred at a particular point in time. There is a lot of discussion about the ROI economy, so much so that most people in NI are more aware of its fortunes than the UK one. In recent years there has been a certain Jeremiah quality to much of this discussion. But over the years 2015-2017 the ROI will grow by 7% more than UK, there will be a lot of talk of restored pay, lower taxes, new initiatives, investment and the like. The UK will do moderately well, but NI will be increasingly expected to bring its expenditure in line with places like Wales and there will not be much in the way of lower taxes, new initiatives, investment and the like. Not that any of this solves the problem, but more reflective folk might wonder why their lot are delivering so much less than those in the 26.
All this talk about reuniting Germany. How will West Germany ever afford to absorb the decrepit communist GDR?
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2015, 12:50:38 AM
What the 6 counties needs is a functioning economy, it is unlikely that the shape of that functioning economy would be much different form the 26 counties and so not an issue in unity. Unfortunately it is operating in handout mode and content to stay that way.
This poll occurred at a particular point in time. There is a lot of discussion about the ROI economy, so much so that most people in NI are more aware of its fortunes than the UK one. In recent years there has been a certain Jeremiah quality to much of this discussion. But over the years 2015-2017 the ROI will grow by 7% more than UK, there will be a lot of talk of restored pay, lower taxes, new initiatives, investment and the like. The UK will do moderately well, but NI will be increasingly expected to bring its expenditure in line with places like Wales and there will not be much in the way of lower taxes, new initiatives, investment and the like. Not that any of this solves the problem, but more reflective folk might wonder why their lot are delivering so much less than those in the 26.
I'm beginning to think the poll happened at a convenient time for both governments. Knowing the state of both economies and the bailout/welfare talks etc, most people were thinking of their own affairs. It also would conveniently get rid of any talk by Sinn Fein for a border poll. For a few years anyway. Both governments don't want that!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2015, 01:20:43 AM
All this talk about reuniting Germany. How will West Germany ever afford to absorb the decrepit communist GDR?
Germany is a good example, West Germans weren't bothered about unity before it happened, might not have been that keen on it afterwards, but were quite caught up in the excitement of it all at the time.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 01:28:16 AM
I'm beginning to think the poll happened at a convenient time for both governments. Knowing the state of both economies and the bailout/welfare talks etc, most people were thinking of their own affairs. It also would conveniently get rid of any talk by Sinn Fein for a border poll. For a few years anyway. Both governments don't want that!
If SF want a border poll than they have to do the groundwork, one part of which is bring NI public expenditure into some sort of reasonable dimension and another is promoting business in NI. They should no sign at all of even realising this.
My biggest gripe with using the like of this is that it is using the balance sheet from the last year, which in a way is actually fair enough since they are actually using known data.
But there is two key things that it doesnt take into account.
Firstly the business transactions generated that would likely staying within an all island economy instead of leaving the north and going to England that is happening at present.
Also pretty sure (could be corrected) that the tax receipts don't include business that dont report in NI, such as the supermarkets. But then it also appears to throw in a share of North Sea oil revenues which we wouldnt be getting in a AI senario
Anyway those two things alone would likely make a difference but I'd be 99% sure that they wouldnt put NI anywhere near back. A constructive forward looking, responsible plan would be required to do so, but the current political attitudes of "get my side all we can" and "milk the Brits for all they are worth" will only make the situation get worse.
In any case I think that the fiscal argument will not be the key factors in a demographic vote, it will be down to the eb and flow of nationalistic fervor within the mob when the time comes.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 01:28:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2015, 12:50:38 AM
What the 6 counties needs is a functioning economy, it is unlikely that the shape of that functioning economy would be much different form the 26 counties and so not an issue in unity. Unfortunately it is operating in handout mode and content to stay that way.
This poll occurred at a particular point in time. There is a lot of discussion about the ROI economy, so much so that most people in NI are more aware of its fortunes than the UK one. In recent years there has been a certain Jeremiah quality to much of this discussion. But over the years 2015-2017 the ROI will grow by 7% more than UK, there will be a lot of talk of restored pay, lower taxes, new initiatives, investment and the like. The UK will do moderately well, but NI will be increasingly expected to bring its expenditure in line with places like Wales and there will not be much in the way of lower taxes, new initiatives, investment and the like. Not that any of this solves the problem, but more reflective folk might wonder why their lot are delivering so much less than those in the 26.
I'm beginning to think the poll happened at a convenient time for both governments. Knowing the state of both economies and the bailout/welfare talks etc, most people were thinking of their own affairs. It also would conveniently get rid of any talk by Sinn Fein for a border poll. For a few years anyway. Both governments don't want that!
They didn't make it to the moon either.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2015, 01:39:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2015, 01:20:43 AM
All this talk about reuniting Germany. How will West Germany ever afford to absorb the decrepit communist GDR?
Germany is a good example, West Germans weren't bothered about unity before it happened, might not have been that keen on it afterwards, but were quite caught up in the excitement of it all at the time.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 01:28:16 AM
I'm beginning to think the poll happened at a convenient time for both governments. Knowing the state of both economies and the bailout/welfare talks etc, most people were thinking of their own affairs. It also would conveniently get rid of any talk by Sinn Fein for a border poll. For a few years anyway. Both governments don't want that!
If SF want a border poll than they have to do the groundwork, one part of which is bring NI public expenditure into some sort of reasonable dimension and another is promoting business in NI. They should no sign at all of even realising this.
A very valid point. People will vote No because they are comfortable will the level of state support and benefits they receive. The Tories are trying to reduce this and SF appear to be blocking this welfare reform. If they were more cynical they would allow the deal and let the cuts bite.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 10, 2015, 08:36:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2015, 01:39:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2015, 01:20:43 AM
All this talk about reuniting Germany. How will West Germany ever afford to absorb the decrepit communist GDR?
Germany is a good example, West Germans weren't bothered about unity before it happened, might not have been that keen on it afterwards, but were quite caught up in the excitement of it all at the time.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 01:28:16 AM
I'm beginning to think the poll happened at a convenient time for both governments. Knowing the state of both economies and the bailout/welfare talks etc, most people were thinking of their own affairs. It also would conveniently get rid of any talk by Sinn Fein for a border poll. For a few years anyway. Both governments don't want that!
If SF want a border poll than they have to do the groundwork, one part of which is bring NI public expenditure into some sort of reasonable dimension and another is promoting business in NI. They should no sign at all of even realising this.
A very valid point. People will vote No because they are comfortable will the level of state support and benefits they receive. The Tories are trying to reduce this and SF appear to be blocking this welfare reform. If they were more cynical they would allow the deal and let the cuts bite.
How? What average do they have to force the Tories to keep up the payments?
I genuinely don't know.
I suspect they wanted the cuts blocked long enough to get them through the 26 Co General Election on their pie in the Sky anti everything platform.
I presume SF will be delighted with the proposed cross border police unit to tackle all the criminal activity in the SF controlled areas??
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 10:43:53 AM
I suspect they wanted the cuts blocked long enough to get them through the 26 Co General Election on their pie in the Sky anti everything platform.
I presume SF will be delighted with the proposed cross border police unit to tackle all the criminal activity in the SF controlled areas??
There are no SF "controlled" areas. Before you gloat criminality is as big a problem in Dublin and other urban centres in the South.
Quote from: michaelg on November 10, 2015, 07:52:17 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 01:28:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2015, 12:50:38 AM
What the 6 counties needs is a functioning economy, it is unlikely that the shape of that functioning economy would be much different form the 26 counties and so not an issue in unity. Unfortunately it is operating in handout mode and content to stay that way.
This poll occurred at a particular point in time. There is a lot of discussion about the ROI economy, so much so that most people in NI are more aware of its fortunes than the UK one. In recent years there has been a certain Jeremiah quality to much of this discussion. But over the years 2015-2017 the ROI will grow by 7% more than UK, there will be a lot of talk of restored pay, lower taxes, new initiatives, investment and the like. The UK will do moderately well, but NI will be increasingly expected to bring its expenditure in line with places like Wales and there will not be much in the way of lower taxes, new initiatives, investment and the like. Not that any of this solves the problem, but more reflective folk might wonder why their lot are delivering so much less than those in the 26.
I'm beginning to think the poll happened at a convenient time for both governments. Knowing the state of both economies and the bailout/welfare talks etc, most people were thinking of their own affairs. It also would conveniently get rid of any talk by Sinn Fein for a border poll. For a few years anyway. Both governments don't want that!
They didn't make it to the moon either.
Erm, what?
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 10:00:07 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 10, 2015, 08:36:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2015, 01:39:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2015, 01:20:43 AM
All this talk about reuniting Germany. How will West Germany ever afford to absorb the decrepit communist GDR?
Germany is a good example, West Germans weren't bothered about unity before it happened, might not have been that keen on it afterwards, but were quite caught up in the excitement of it all at the time.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 01:28:16 AM
I'm beginning to think the poll happened at a convenient time for both governments. Knowing the state of both economies and the bailout/welfare talks etc, most people were thinking of their own affairs. It also would conveniently get rid of any talk by Sinn Fein for a border poll. For a few years anyway. Both governments don't want that!
If SF want a border poll than they have to do the groundwork, one part of which is bring NI public expenditure into some sort of reasonable dimension and another is promoting business in NI. They should no sign at all of even realising this.
A very valid point. People will vote No because they are comfortable will the level of state support and benefits they receive. The Tories are trying to reduce this and SF appear to be blocking this welfare reform. If they were more cynical they would allow the deal and let the cuts bite.
How? What average do they have to force the Tories to keep up the payments?
I genuinely don't know.
They didn't sign the budget ::). This has the effect of forcing the decision making back to Westminster who can enact the cuts whilst allowing SF to be against them. As I said "appear to be blocking the cuts".
Quote from: LeoMc on November 10, 2015, 01:02:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 10:00:07 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 10, 2015, 08:36:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2015, 01:39:27 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 10, 2015, 01:20:43 AM
All this talk about reuniting Germany. How will West Germany ever afford to absorb the decrepit communist GDR?
Germany is a good example, West Germans weren't bothered about unity before it happened, might not have been that keen on it afterwards, but were quite caught up in the excitement of it all at the time.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2015, 01:28:16 AM
I'm beginning to think the poll happened at a convenient time for both governments. Knowing the state of both economies and the bailout/welfare talks etc, most people were thinking of their own affairs. It also would conveniently get rid of any talk by Sinn Fein for a border poll. For a few years anyway. Both governments don't want that!
If SF want a border poll than they have to do the groundwork, one part of which is bring NI public expenditure into some sort of reasonable dimension and another is promoting business in NI. They should no sign at all of even realising this.
A very valid point. People will vote No because they are comfortable will the level of state support and benefits they receive. The Tories are trying to reduce this and SF appear to be blocking this welfare reform. If they were more cynical they would allow the deal and let the cuts bite.
How? What average do they have to force the Tories to keep up the payments?
I genuinely don't know.
They didn't sign the budget ::). This has the effect of forcing the decision making back to Westminster who can enact the cuts whilst allowing SF to be against them. As I said "appear to be blocking the cuts".
Ah right. ;D
At a macroeconomic level I don't think that there is a huge difference between Republic and UK. They are similar countries in many ways. Equally in terms of social politics they are not a million miles away.
Both countries have also similar enough views in terms of rights etc.. (notwithstanding details of charters etc..). Certainly you are not going to get institutionalized and recognized discrimination that you have had in the past.
So fussing about costs of various setups, standard of living and dredging over past injustices doesn't advance the argument one way or another.
What for many is an issue is the comfort of being around your own. How do you feel being surrounded by Poppy wearers or being the only one wearing it?
Putting your children to a school of your religion?
Parading with your own?
Frankly if there ever was a vote, I think these emotive issues will decide where the "X" goes.
/Jim.
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 10, 2015, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 10:43:53 AM
I suspect they wanted the cuts blocked long enough to get them through the 26 Co General Election on their pie in the Sky anti everything platform.
I presume SF will be delighted with the proposed cross border police unit to tackle all the criminal activity in the SF controlled areas??
There are no SF "controlled" areas. Before you gloat criminality is as big a problem in Dublin and other urban centres in the South.
Criminality in Dublin and the Munster cities isn't intrinsically linked to supporters of political organisations. The same can't be said of fuel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling, credit union robbery, not making tax returns ;), intimidation etc etc.
To be fair, the south let their pub owners away with criminal behavior all year round. Robbing b******s
Not round here anyway - €4 a pint (porther and beer - yella stuff with foreign names - that's a different story).
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 04:17:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 10, 2015, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 10:43:53 AM
I suspect they wanted the cuts blocked long enough to get them through the 26 Co General Election on their pie in the Sky anti everything platform.
I presume SF will be delighted with the proposed cross border police unit to tackle all the criminal activity in the SF controlled areas??
There are no SF "controlled" areas. Before you gloat criminality is as big a problem in Dublin and other urban centres in the South.
Criminality in Dublin and the Munster cities isn't intrinsically linked to supporters of political organisations. The same can't be said of fuel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling, credit union robbery, not making tax returns ;), intimidation etc etc.
On a side note what is the deal with the rise and rise of gangland in the South? I think I read that the murder rate is the highest in Western Europe...
Is it a societal problem, or just random?
Its not something that appears to get alot of discussion on here, do people not care, not see the problem as something that concerns them or what. America's gun culture and consequences seems to get a lot more discussion on here for example but it surely affects people in Ireland far less than gangland on their doorstep?
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 10, 2015, 01:42:30 PM
At a macroeconomic level I don't think that there is a huge difference between Republic and UK. They are similar countries in many ways. Equally in terms of social politics they are not a million miles away.
Both countries have also similar enough views in terms of rights etc.. (notwithstanding details of charters etc..). Certainly you are not going to get institutionalized and recognized discrimination that you have had in the past.
So fussing about costs of various setups, standard of living and dredging over past injustices doesn't advance the argument one way or another.
What for many is an issue is the comfort of being around your own. How do you feel being surrounded by Poppy wearers or being the only one wearing it?
Putting your children to a school of your religion?
Parading with your own?
Frankly if there ever was a vote, I think these emotive issues will decide where the "X" goes.
/Jim.
There are basically 2 counties with a Protestant majority. The other 4 were added for respectability.
And the majority population of those 2 counties is going through an identity crisis.
I wouldn't downplay economic issues either.
Damn stats hey! People just take what they want from them. Why would anyone want a united Ireland tomorrow when there has been no debate on the subject and would obviously cause mayhem but that is essentially what these polls keep asking. Interesting when they actually poll people on would they want a United Ireland at some stage in the future and remove the dont knows the results become more what you would expect ie approx 80% in the ROI and 40% in NI
Sinn Fein have seen the results of this poll and have to realise that they are as far away from a United Ireland as they ever have been.
Equally they can learn from the yes campaign in Scotland and the mistakes they made with regard to fiscal isolation from the UK which I think cost them in the end.
North and South they need to get a strategy for their vision of a United Ireland and what exactly this will look like should the vote ever happen. It needs to be done thoroughly and comprehensively and hammered North and South for the next it 5 -10 years to have any shot.
Their current strategy is causing apathy especially up North where all we can really see is the "at least it's not themmuns" politics ruling.
Sinn Fein need new fresh leaders to get the train going I believe that romantically all Nationalists in the North and the majority in the South would love a United Ireland but we need to see how it will work and that it will work before we can go for it!!
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 04:17:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 10, 2015, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 10:43:53 AM
I suspect they wanted the cuts blocked long enough to get them through the 26 Co General Election on their pie in the Sky anti everything platform.
I presume SF will be delighted with the proposed cross border police unit to tackle all the criminal activity in the SF controlled areas??
There are no SF "controlled" areas. Before you gloat criminality is as big a problem in Dublin and other urban centres in the South.
Criminality in Dublin and the Munster cities isn't intrinsically linked to supporters of political organisations. The same can't be said of fuel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling, credit union robbery, not making tax returns ;), intimidation etc etc.
Nor is there any proof that those linked to criminality in the north are linked to SF. This is a spurious allegation made by some with no proof.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 10, 2015, 11:16:11 PM
Damn stats hey! People just take what they want from them. Why would anyone want a united Ireland tomorrow when there has been no debate on the subject and would obviously cause mayhem but that is essentially what these polls keep asking. Interesting when they actually poll people on would they want a United Ireland at some stage in the future and remove the dont knows the results become more what you would expect ie approx 80% in the ROI and 40% in NI
Exactly, I've been castigated on here in the past for not attending SF meetings to find out what they see as the way towards unity. Why can't they put it out there have the debate and look for consensus. Few Nationalists in the North will vote for a UI, let alone Unionists as they have no idea what SF mean by it. As for the SDLP they are clueless and are more interested in securing the future of NI.
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2015, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 04:17:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 10, 2015, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 10:43:53 AM
I suspect they wanted the cuts blocked long enough to get them through the 26 Co General Election on their pie in the Sky anti everything platform.
I presume SF will be delighted with the proposed cross border police unit to tackle all the criminal activity in the SF controlled areas??
There are no SF "controlled" areas. Before you gloat criminality is as big a problem in Dublin and other urban centres in the South.
Criminality in Dublin and the Munster cities isn't intrinsically linked to supporters of political organisations. The same can't be said of fuel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling, credit union robbery, not making tax returns ;), intimidation etc etc.
Nor is there any proof that those linked to criminality in the north are linked to SF. This is a spurious allegation made by some with no proof.
Very hard to get proof. They hardly leave a calling card behind or issue a statement saying who they are.
But the bushes and drumlins and locals know and it's time for SF to grow up and do their bit to stop them.
What changes do you think an all-Ireland setup would require ?
Would police have to be armed ?
Would pensions be equalised ?
Would hospitals come under a ginormous HSE or would something more coherent be required ?
Would social welfare become unmanageable up North ?
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 11:28:40 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2015, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 04:17:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 10, 2015, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 10:43:53 AM
I suspect they wanted the cuts blocked long enough to get them through the 26 Co General Election on their pie in the Sky anti everything platform.
I presume SF will be delighted with the proposed cross border police unit to tackle all the criminal activity in the SF controlled areas??
There are no SF "controlled" areas. Before you gloat criminality is as big a problem in Dublin and other urban centres in the South.
Criminality in Dublin and the Munster cities isn't intrinsically linked to supporters of political organisations. The same can't be said of fuel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling, credit union robbery, not making tax returns ;), intimidation etc etc.
Nor is there any proof that those linked to criminality in the north are linked to SF. This is a spurious allegation made by some with no proof.
Very hard to get proof. They hardly leave a calling card behind or issue a statement saying who they are.
But the bushes and drumlins and locals know and it's time for SF to grow up and do their bit to stop them.
Why just SF it is a community problem.
True, but SF people might live to tell the tale.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 02:55:09 PM
True, but SF people might live to tell the tale.
Ah I see Enda
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 11:28:40 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 11, 2015, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 04:17:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 10, 2015, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 10:43:53 AM
I suspect they wanted the cuts blocked long enough to get them through the 26 Co General Election on their pie in the Sky anti everything platform.
I presume SF will be delighted with the proposed cross border police unit to tackle all the criminal activity in the SF controlled areas??
There are no SF "controlled" areas. Before you gloat criminality is as big a problem in Dublin and other urban centres in the South.
Criminality in Dublin and the Munster cities isn't intrinsically linked to supporters of political organisations. The same can't be said of fuel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling, credit union robbery, not making tax returns ;), intimidation etc etc.
Nor is there any proof that those linked to criminality in the north are linked to SF. This is a spurious allegation made by some with no proof.
Very hard to get proof. They hardly leave a calling card behind or issue a statement saying who they are.
But the bushes and drumlins and locals know and it's time for SF to grow up and do their bit to stop them.
Ah well that's all right then, we'll just try and sentence large groups of people without it. Gossip and innuendo will suffice. Or even better don't bother with a trial, reintroduce internment, it worked well the last time.
No.
Just stop diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling for s start.
Not much of that going on outside a small number of areas ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 05:33:31 PM
No.
Just stop diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling for s start.
Not much of that going on outside a small number of areas ;)
Aye, what the f**k is wrong with the rest of ye? ;D
Quote from: BennyCake on November 11, 2015, 08:04:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 05:33:31 PM
No.
Just stop diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling for s start.
Not much of that going on outside a small number of areas ;)
Aye, what the f**k is wrong with the rest of ye? ;D
At least the spirit of enterprise is present in one part of the 6 counties.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2015, 08:18:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 11, 2015, 08:04:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 05:33:31 PM
No.
Just stop diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling for s start.
Not much of that going on outside a small number of areas ;)
Aye, what the f**k is wrong with the rest of ye? ;D
At least the spirit of enterprise is present in one part of the 6 counties.
Hope they make tax returns unlike some border farmers ::)
Sure any day now Will.I.Am Frazer will put names to his allegations on one of his weekly tours of south Armagh, any wonder he's getting unwanted visitors lol
QuoteNo.
Just stop diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling for s start.
Not much of that going on outside a small number of areas
You mean there's smuggling going on along the border?? You wouldn't get that in civilized countries I suppose? ::)
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 05:33:31 PM
No.
Just stop diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling for s start.
Not much of that going on outside a small number of areas ;)
I see you neglected to mention sheep stealing.
Quote from: Keyser soze on November 12, 2015, 09:46:11 AM
I see you neglected to mention sheep stealing.
'Stealing'. Is that what they are calling it these days?
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 05:33:31 PM
No.
Just stop diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling, cattle rustling for s start.
Not much of that going on outside a small number of areas ;)
On both sides of the border.