gaaboard.com

Joe Brolly: How I faced down IRA man who branded me a traitor


In 2008, Martin McAleese, husband of then President Mary, attended a meeting between Loyalist commanders and community leaders in Belfast. Ryan Feeney, a high ranking member of the Ulster Council of the GAA, was also in attendance.

The Loyalists were interested in the GAA's community model and how it could help regenerate Protestant ghettoes in the city. The summit took place in the community centre on the Shankill Road.

After Martin and Ryan had made a lengthy presentation, the two men shared some tea and buns with the group. Jackie McDonald, the notorious UDA brigadier, warmly shook their hands. "Great to have you here," he said. "Thanks Jackie," said Feeney, "I wonder what would have happened if we'd come here ten years ago?" Jackie looked Feeney straight in the eye and said, "We'd have shot you and kidnapped him."

I thought of that exchange earlier last week when Jarlath Burns described the national anthem and the tricolour as "divisive" and said he would support giving them up at GAA games if it would help to persuade some Unionists to support us.

"It wouldn't cost me a thought," he said. "If I thought for a moment that Ulster Unionist MLA Tom Elliott would become our greatest fan, I would get rid of them surely." It is worth reminding ourselves that Tom is the man who proudly boasted at his party conference in 2010 that he would "never go to a GAA game or a gay march."

The reality is that no appeasement would satisfy the Tom Elliotts of this world. The whole point of a civilised society is to respect difference, not abandon what we are in order to satisfy extremists. The world is awash with political correctness. Its main function is to make us feel embarrassed about who we are and what we think, and to create a world that is entirely bland.

A few years ago, Flintshire County Council in Wales renamed the traditional English dessert Spotted Richard on the basis that Spotted Dick might offend female customers at the canteen. Tesco and the Gloucester NHS Trust followed suit. Where does it end?

The Sam Maguire Cup would have to go. Maguire, after all, was a member of a team of IRB assassins in London. As head of intelligence there, he was the alleged mastermind behind the murder of Sir Henry Wilson in London in 1922. Glorifying the memory of a man who put bullets in the brains of Englishmen just isn't on. I think perhaps that in future, it would be safer to call the trophy the Jedward Cup.

And what of all those hundreds of GAA clubs that glorify terrorists? There are O'Donovan Rossas all over the country. Bad enough that Rossa was married three times and had 16 children. Worse still, he was the first Republican to orchestrate a bombing campaign on the British mainland. His so-called 'Dynamite Campaign' ran throughout the 1880s in London, bringing terror to the populace. Or Roger Casement, who gives his name to many clubs and the iconic Belfast venue. Casement was a gun runner and a rebel who was executed by the British during the Great War and buried in lime. In 1965, his remains were repatriated to Ireland and he was afforded a State funeral. Almost half a million people filed past his coffin.

As for the anthem, Phil Coulter or Stock Aitken Waterman could write one for us.

After we won the All-Ireland in 1993, we sang 'The Town I Loved So Well' on The Late Late Show. A fortnight later, Phil Coulter arrived at a team meeting wearing a lime green suit and lemon tie and presented us all with a signed photograph of himself at the grand piano. That's the sort of man we need to write a national anthem.

I don't suppose there is any point in explaining that the Tricolour denotes peace between the orange and the green. It'll have to go as well. Perhaps we could replace it with a plain white flag, or one with a little kitten.

The GAA does not need to apologise to anyone. My own club St Brigid's were the first to play the PSNI. At that time, it was a thorny issue and we played them amidst a media carnival. I gave interviews to all the broadcasters strongly supporting the game. Afterwards, we ate and drank with the coppers in the clubhouse, and why wouldn't we?

A few days later, graffiti appeared in Belfast city centre reading, 'SHAME ON YOU JOE'. That same afternoon, I was walking through the thronged great hall of the High Courts when someone shouted "Brolly you traitor."

I looked over and spotted an ex-IRA man sitting with some other boys of the old brigade. I made a beeline for them and the heads went down.

"What was that Seán?" I said, shaking hands with them, "I didn't hear you properly."

"I said you were a traitor," he mumbled.

"Jesus Seán," I said, " I thought it was ok to play an oul football match against them after you handed over your guns."

The GAA in Ulster has been doing massive work on reconciliation. Joint GAA, rugby and soccer camps have been on the go for years. In my own club we have mixed teams at every level. My under 16 group this year had seven players from the Unionist tradition and, you know what, nobody gives a damn what religion they happen to be. The brilliant All Saints Ballymena under 14 feile champions from 2014 had six Protestant players in their starting 15. There is a similar pattern at every age group. This is real reconciliation, not the phoney kind demanded publicly by Tom Elliott or Willie Frazer.

Before Martin McAleese and Ryan Feeney left that meeting in the Shankill Community Centre back in 2008, they arranged to bring the group to the upcoming All-Ireland hurling semi-final. Four weeks later, a coach pulled up at the centre in Belfast and 50 Loyalists from Tiger's Bay, the Shankill and Lurgan trooped on board to be greeted by Ryan. One of them was wearing a Dublin jersey.

"You like it?" he said to Feeney, "Up the Dubs!"

After the game, in the splendid surrounds of the VIP suite of the Hogan Stand, Ryan asked the leader of the group what his overall thoughts on the experience were.

"We need a Protestant GAA."

Now that is a good idea.

Sunday Indo Sport


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-how-i-faced-down-ira-man-who-branded-me-a-traitor-31580075.html

Farcical title but I think the article itself was spot on.

I think it's bang on and I'm not a fan of Brolly.

Why should you pander to people who are just neandethrals and bigots. You shouldn't.

I read the title as 'branded me a tractor'.

Most interesting part of that article was the advert you accidentally pasted along with it. Its pity this fictional character Brolloy "faced down" didn't exist or he might really have to face him down. What a hero brolley is.

I think people are missing the point regarding tricolour and flag. Its not about pandering to hardline who will never want anything to do with the gaa. Its about opening it up to the normal everyday protestants in the north who may feel intimidated by symbols that in the north have a long history and recognition with the troubles. If we are trying to build a tolerant society in the north then we should be leading by example and sharing the gaa which has wrongly had a political stigma attached by hardline unionists!

I suspect brolly agrees with this given the club he played for in Belfast but of course he wayed up which view would get a better reaction!

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 08:13:30 AM

After we won the All-Ireland in 1993, we sang 'The Town I Loved So Well' on The Late Late Show. A fortnight later, Phil Coulter arrived at a team meeting wearing a lime green suit and lemon tie and presented us all with a signed photograph of himself at the grand piano. That's the sort of man we need to write a national anthem.

Actually, Phil has written the national anthem played for our rugby and other All Ireland sports teams when they play overseas.

I love this line.

"The world is awash with political correctness. Its main function is to make us feel embarrassed about who we are and what we think, and to create a world that is entirely bland."


Spotted Richard anyone?

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
Most interesting part of that article was the advert you accidentally pasted along with it. Its pity this fictional character Brolloy "faced down" didn't exist or he might really have to face him down. What a hero brolley is.

I think people are missing the point regarding tricolour and flag. Its not about pandering to hardline who will never want anything to do with the gaa. Its about opening it up to the normal everyday protestants in the north who may feel intimidated by symbols that in the north have a long history and recognition with the troubles. If we are trying to build a tolerant society in the north then we should be leading by example and sharing the gaa which has wrongly had a political stigma attached by hardline unionists!

I suspect brolly agrees with this given the club he played for in Belfast but of course he wayed up which view would get a better reaction!

I tidied it up there lol

The GAA is already a very tolerant organisation that's open to all but it shouldn't forget its roots nor dilute itself for anyone else, if it does it slowly becomes something else.

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 10:19:58 AM

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
Most interesting part of that article was the advert you accidentally pasted along with it. Its pity this fictional character Brolloy "faced down" didn't exist or he might really have to face him down. What a hero brolley is.

I think people are missing the point regarding tricolour and flag. Its not about pandering to hardline who will never want anything to do with the gaa. Its about opening it up to the normal everyday protestants in the north who may feel intimidated by symbols that in the north have a long history and recognition with the troubles. If we are trying to build a tolerant society in the north then we should be leading by example and sharing the gaa which has wrongly had a political stigma attached by hardline unionists!

I suspect brolly agrees with this given the club he played for in Belfast but of course he wayed up which view would get a better reaction!

I tidied it up there lol

The GAA is already a very tolerant organisation that's open to all but it shouldn't forget its roots nor dilute itself for anyone else, if it does it slowly becomes something else.

Its not open to all in the North. To say anything else shows a complete lack of understanding for your neighbour. You may be from somewhere that there is still a deep divide but out side those hotspots people are trying to move on. GAA will never lose its Irish identity. I just think in Ulster it should use its influence and power to help move things out of the dark ages. Whether you like it or not, just like the union jack the flag and anthem of Ireland are synonymous with the dark days. If you are truly tolerant and progressive you remove things in sport which intimidate or scare those you have to share the country with!

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 10:19:58 AM

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
Most interesting part of that article was the advert you accidentally pasted along with it. Its pity this fictional character Brolloy "faced down" didn't exist or he might really have to face him down. What a hero brolley is.

I think people are missing the point regarding tricolour and flag. Its not about pandering to hardline who will never want anything to do with the gaa. Its about opening it up to the normal everyday protestants in the north who may feel intimidated by symbols that in the north have a long history and recognition with the troubles. If we are trying to build a tolerant society in the north then we should be leading by example and sharing the gaa which has wrongly had a political stigma attached by hardline unionists!

I suspect brolly agrees with this given the club he played for in Belfast but of course he wayed up which view would get a better reaction!

I tidied it up there lol

The GAA is already a very tolerant organisation that's open to all but it shouldn't forget its roots nor dilute itself for anyone else, if it does it slowly becomes something else.

PS can you send me the link to the advertisement you deleted, looked like a good deal

Quote from: Disillusioned on October 06, 2015, 09:04:16 AM

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 08:13:30 AM

After we won the All-Ireland in 1993, we sang 'The Town I Loved So Well' on The Late Late Show. A fortnight later, Phil Coulter arrived at a team meeting wearing a lime green suit and lemon tie and presented us all with a signed photograph of himself at the grand piano. That's the sort of man we need to write a national anthem.

Actually, Phil has written the national anthem played for our rugby and other All Ireland sports teams when they play overseas.

I will never stand up for any anthem written by that bollix!

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 08:13:30 AM
A few years ago, Flintshire County Council in Wales renamed the traditional English dessert Spotted Richard on the basis that Spotted Dick might offend female customers at the canteen. Tesco and the Gloucester NHS Trust followed suit. Where does it end?

A 30-second Google told me this was bullshit (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/north_east/8270460.stm).

Quote from: deiseach on October 06, 2015, 11:22:18 AM

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 08:13:30 AM
A few years ago, Flintshire County Council in Wales renamed the traditional English dessert Spotted Richard on the basis that Spotted Dick might offend female customers at the canteen. Tesco and the Gloucester NHS Trust followed suit. Where does it end?

A 30-second Google told me this was bullshit (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/north_east/8270460.stm).

It's not though, they DID take the decision to change it.

They subsequently caught themselves on and reversed the decision.  This is all explained in your link???

Where does the link say it was done because the name "might offend female customers at the canteen"?

Quote from: deiseach on October 06, 2015, 01:27:42 PM
Where does the link say it was done because the name "might offend female customers at the canteen"?

Fair enough - that specific part is not mentioned.

Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 01:41:58 PM

Quote from: deiseach on October 06, 2015, 01:27:42 PM
Where does the link say it was done because the name "might offend female customers at the canteen"?

Fair enough - that specific part is not mentioned.

Actually it says it was changed because some lads were making crude remarks. So it wasn't for a PC reason, which makes it a bit irrelevant to Joe's argument about appeasement.

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 10:47:28 AM

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 10:19:58 AM

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
Most interesting part of that article was the advert you accidentally pasted along with it. Its pity this fictional character Brolloy "faced down" didn't exist or he might really have to face him down. What a hero brolley is.

I think people are missing the point regarding tricolour and flag. Its not about pandering to hardline who will never want anything to do with the gaa. Its about opening it up to the normal everyday protestants in the north who may feel intimidated by symbols that in the north have a long history and recognition with the troubles. If we are trying to build a tolerant society in the north then we should be leading by example and sharing the gaa which has wrongly had a political stigma attached by hardline unionists!

I suspect brolly agrees with this given the club he played for in Belfast but of course he wayed up which view would get a better reaction!

I tidied it up there lol

The GAA is already a very tolerant organisation that's open to all but it shouldn't forget its roots nor dilute itself for anyone else, if it does it slowly becomes something else.

Its not open to all in the North. To say anything else shows a complete lack of understanding for your neighbour. You may be from somewhere that there is still a deep divide but out side those hotspots people are trying to move on. GAA will never lose its Irish identity. I just think in Ulster it should use its influence and power to help move things out of the dark ages. Whether you like it or not, just like the union jack the flag and anthem of Ireland are synonymous with the dark days. If you are truly tolerant and progressive you remove things in sport which intimidate or scare those you have to share the country with!

It is open to all in the north, the problem is that too many in the north dont want anything to do with the GAA due to it's ties to a United Ireland, well that and the fact the loyalist Politicans fed the a libe of bullshit to the fact that the GAA was a breeding ground for the Ra.

Unionists also like to draw parallels between the Orange Order and the GAA.

Has the OO been asked to make their festivities more welcoming to Catholics/Nationalists?

I've come to enjoy the whole GAA = Orange Order thing. If they are the poster children for the respective cultures, then it's time to chalk this particular war as a win for us over themmuns.

'The British mainland'... where's that?

Quote from: red hander on October 06, 2015, 02:45:18 PM
'The British mainland'... where's that?

- 'where's Londonderry?'
- 'up the Londonderry road'

I got a great insight into the mind of Phil Coulter from that article, imagine presenting each member of a football team with a framed, signed photo of yourself ...  shows how much Mr. Coulter thinks of himself, inflated ego comes to mind.

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 10:47:28 AM

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 10:19:58 AM

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
Most interesting part of that article was the advert you accidentally pasted along with it. Its pity this fictional character Brolloy "faced down" didn't exist or he might really have to face him down. What a hero brolley is.

I think people are missing the point regarding tricolour and flag. Its not about pandering to hardline who will never want anything to do with the gaa. Its about opening it up to the normal everyday protestants in the north who may feel intimidated by symbols that in the north have a long history and recognition with the troubles. If we are trying to build a tolerant society in the north then we should be leading by example and sharing the gaa which has wrongly had a political stigma attached by hardline unionists!

I suspect brolly agrees with this given the club he played for in Belfast but of course he wayed up which view would get a better reaction!

I tidied it up there lol

The GAA is already a very tolerant organisation that's open to all but it shouldn't forget its roots nor dilute itself for anyone else, if it does it slowly becomes something else.

Its not open to all in the North. To say anything else shows a complete lack of understanding for your neighbour. You may be from somewhere that there is still a deep divide but out side those hotspots people are trying to move on. GAA will never lose its Irish identity. I just think in Ulster it should use its influence and power to help move things out of the dark ages. Whether you like it or not, just like the union jack the flag and anthem of Ireland are synonymous with the dark days. If you are truly tolerant and progressive you remove things in sport which intimidate or scare those you have to share the country with!

There is no deep divide where I'm from but your argument would make more sense if I was and had a sort of siege mentality, I would welcome anyone into the GAA and so would any GAA person I know.

I think the only true way to move on would be to get rid of the fears rather than try to placate the unreasonable (a la Tom Elliot) by removing the symbols of fear, because that's all flags an anthems are is symbols open to interpretation.

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 03:06:14 PM

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 10:47:28 AM

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 10:19:58 AM

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
Most interesting part of that article was the advert you accidentally pasted along with it. Its pity this fictional character Brolloy "faced down" didn't exist or he might really have to face him down. What a hero brolley is.

I think people are missing the point regarding tricolour and flag. Its not about pandering to hardline who will never want anything to do with the gaa. Its about opening it up to the normal everyday protestants in the north who may feel intimidated by symbols that in the north have a long history and recognition with the troubles. If we are trying to build a tolerant society in the north then we should be leading by example and sharing the gaa which has wrongly had a political stigma attached by hardline unionists!

I suspect brolly agrees with this given the club he played for in Belfast but of course he wayed up which view would get a better reaction!

I tidied it up there lol

The GAA is already a very tolerant organisation that's open to all but it shouldn't forget its roots nor dilute itself for anyone else, if it does it slowly becomes something else.

Its not open to all in the North. To say anything else shows a complete lack of understanding for your neighbour. You may be from somewhere that there is still a deep divide but out side those hotspots people are trying to move on. GAA will never lose its Irish identity. I just think in Ulster it should use its influence and power to help move things out of the dark ages. Whether you like it or not, just like the union jack the flag and anthem of Ireland are synonymous with the dark days. If you are truly tolerant and progressive you remove things in sport which intimidate or scare those you have to share the country with!

There is no deep divide where I'm from but your argument would make more sense if I was and had a sort of siege mentality, I would welcome anyone into the GAA and so would any GAA person I know.

I think the only true way to move on would be to get rid of the fears rather than try to placate the unreasonable (a la Tom Elliot) by removing the symbols of fear, because that's all flags an anthems are is symbols open to interpretation.

Remove the fear, I think that's going to be tricky after a few hundred years and 2 entrenched communities. The only way to remove the fear is remove the symbols and show that you are willing to open up forgive and forget. The argument "have the orange order opened up the 12th for us" is ridiculous.

You are comparing a celebration of the defeat of Catholicism to sport? The GAA is nothing like the OO! They take their symbols and try and ram them down peoples throats purely because they are afraid now that they are being marginalised in modern n Ireland. Which they are.

Most normal protestants want nothing to do with it and no catholic in their right mind would because its all about confrontation and dragging us back. The GAA is the opposite, or should be but imo they do not do enough.

Once again, removing the flags etc is not placating tom Elliot and co. They will never want to be part of the gaa but use the flag and anthem as a tool to tell their communities to stay away, we are trying to take over. Take that away and what do they have? You are actually doing them a favour by holding on to them. I dobn't need a flag or anthem at a game to show where I am from or feel more irish

You take that away and they will just want more taken away.

The flags and anthems go then you'll have the people the grounds are named after.

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 04:05:46 PM

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 03:06:14 PM

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 10:47:28 AM

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 10:19:58 AM

Quote from: redhandefender on October 06, 2015, 08:46:48 AM
Most interesting part of that article was the advert you accidentally pasted along with it. Its pity this fictional character Brolloy "faced down" didn't exist or he might really have to face him down. What a hero brolley is.

I think people are missing the point regarding tricolour and flag. Its not about pandering to hardline who will never want anything to do with the gaa. Its about opening it up to the normal everyday protestants in the north who may feel intimidated by symbols that in the north have a long history and recognition with the troubles. If we are trying to build a tolerant society in the north then we should be leading by example and sharing the gaa which has wrongly had a political stigma attached by hardline unionists!

I suspect brolly agrees with this given the club he played for in Belfast but of course he wayed up which view would get a better reaction!

I tidied it up there lol

The GAA is already a very tolerant organisation that's open to all but it shouldn't forget its roots nor dilute itself for anyone else, if it does it slowly becomes something else.

Its not open to all in the North. To say anything else shows a complete lack of understanding for your neighbour. You may be from somewhere that there is still a deep divide but out side those hotspots people are trying to move on. GAA will never lose its Irish identity. I just think in Ulster it should use its influence and power to help move things out of the dark ages. Whether you like it or not, just like the union jack the flag and anthem of Ireland are synonymous with the dark days. If you are truly tolerant and progressive you remove things in sport which intimidate or scare those you have to share the country with!

There is no deep divide where I'm from but your argument would make more sense if I was and had a sort of siege mentality, I would welcome anyone into the GAA and so would any GAA person I know.

I think the only true way to move on would be to get rid of the fears rather than try to placate the unreasonable (a la Tom Elliot) by removing the symbols of fear, because that's all flags an anthems are is symbols open to interpretation.

Remove the fear, I think that's going to be tricky after a few hundred years and 2 entrenched communities. The only way to remove the fear is remove the symbols and show that you are willing to open up forgive and forget. The argument "have the orange order opened up the 12th for us" is ridiculous.

You are comparing a celebration of the defeat of Catholicism to sport? The GAA is nothing like the OO! They take their symbols and try and ram them down peoples throats purely because they are afraid now that they are being marginalised in modern n Ireland. Which they are.

Most normal protestants want nothing to do with it and no catholic in their right mind would because its all about confrontation and dragging us back. The GAA is the opposite, or should be but imo they do not do enough.

Once again, removing the flags etc is not placating tom Elliot and co. They will never want to be part of the gaa but use the flag and anthem as a tool to tell their communities to stay away, we are trying to take over. Take that away and what do they have? You are actually doing them a favour by holding on to them. I dobn't need a flag or anthem at a game to show where I am from or feel more irish

I never mentioned the OO it by its nature is a sectarian organisation based of religious persecution and superiority of the neighbour. So I agree comparing the 12th to the GAA is deeply flawed.

The GAA was first founded to promote Gaelic life and culture through its sports languages and other activities I don't see why when the GAA is already accepting of all that they should have to change what they were founded for.

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 04:17:45 PM
You take that away and they will just want more taken away.

The flags and anthems go then you'll have the people the grounds are named after.

This is it.  Mark my words, it wont be long before Burns and the likes are arguing that the names of hundreds of grounds, stands, trophies, competitions and clubs are changed because they commemorate people who the British branded terrorists.  Every argument I've seen for the removal of the flag and anthem could be applied to these cases.

Quote from: Franko on October 06, 2015, 04:33:28 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 04:17:45 PM
You take that away and they will just want more taken away.

The flags and anthems go then you'll have the people the grounds are named after.

This is it.  Mark my words, it wont be long before Burns and the likes are arguing that the names of hundreds of grounds, stands, trophies, competitions and clubs are changed because they commemorate people who the British branded terrorists.  Every argument I've seen for the removal of the flag and anthem could be applied to these cases.

You're right Franko and they'll want us to sing Irelands Call at the All Ireland final. Bag of balls!

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 04:17:45 PM
You take that away and they will just want more taken away.

The flags and anthems go then you'll have the people the grounds are named after.

::)

There are literally three things they can really ask the GAA to change. Anthem, flag and naming of clubs grounds/compititions. The latter I would imagine there are maybe a dozen or so "offensive" examples, confined to Ulster. Is it really so much for some people to even consider the merits of this? Ultimately it's for the people of those clubs to decide but try seeing it from a unionist perspective.

Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 07:06:47 PM
There are literally three things they can really ask the GAA to change. Anthem, flag and naming of clubs grounds/compititions. The latter I would imagine there are maybe a dozen or so "offensive" examples, confined to Ulster. Is it really so much for some people to even consider the merits of this? Ultimately it's for the people of those clubs to decide but try seeing it from a unionist perspective.

You mean airbrush history?

Why are people so worried about reaching out to unionists? Don't need them.

Quote from: foxcommander on October 06, 2015, 07:42:09 PM

Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 07:06:47 PM
There are literally three things they can really ask the GAA to change. Anthem, flag and naming of clubs grounds/compititions. The latter I would imagine there are maybe a dozen or so "offensive" examples, confined to Ulster. Is it really so much for some people to even consider the merits of this? Ultimately it's for the people of those clubs to decide but try seeing it from a unionist perspective.

You mean airbrush history?

Why are people so worried about reaching out to unionists? Don't need them.

Lol. You're like a Catholic willie Frazer. How is that airbrushing anything?

I know, imagine reaching out to your neighbours, colleagues, business partners, friends etc  ::)

Nowt wrong with reaching out to unionists, but you shouldn't have to sell your soul just to be told to f**k off anyway

General lee they are perfectly welcome that's the thing. The people from the "pul" community who cry out for this are the people who wouldn't go near it.

It's not being small minded being against it. i am not overly political but i see no need to appease people who are nothing but bigots and that is what this feels like an exercise like this would be - appeasement to bigots.

Quote from: red hander on October 06, 2015, 08:12:36 PM
Nowt wrong with reaching out to unionists, but you shouldn't have to sell your soul just to be told to f**k off anyway

+1

Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 07:58:48 PM

Quote from: foxcommander on October 06, 2015, 07:42:09 PM

Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 07:06:47 PM
There are literally three things they can really ask the GAA to change. Anthem, flag and naming of clubs grounds/compititions. The latter I would imagine there are maybe a dozen or so "offensive" examples, confined to Ulster. Is it really so much for some people to even consider the merits of this? Ultimately it's for the people of those clubs to decide but try seeing it from a unionist perspective.

You mean airbrush history?

Why are people so worried about reaching out to unionists? Don't need them.

Lol. You're like a Catholic willie Frazer. How is that airbrushing anything?

I know, imagine reaching out to your neighbours, colleagues, business partners, friends etc  ::)

Did you actually read what you wrote? You're the one who wants to airbrush the GAA to make it unionist friendly.

Bloody sunday - never happened. Let's all move on and forget about it.

We should have a competition to see what the better alternatives are - although from the other thread I do like the sound of the the Sam Maguire being renamed the Jedward Cup. Who doesn't love them?

Liam McCarthy isn't really a sexy name. The Bono cup would draw more tweets and generate more social media.

The Hogan Stand as well as the Magazine/Website named after needs to go. How about a minor tweak - the Wogan Stand after Sir Terry Wogan - everyones favourite irishman.

Croke Park will need a rebranding. That's named after a papist. A bit of corporate sponsorship will sort that out.
The Ashers Cake Bowl has a certain ring to it.

May have to rethink the Ashers Cake Bowl idea. They might not let a different section of the community in...

I wouldn't be the most jingoistic when it comes to National Anthems, flags etc but I must say that whilst attending the Ireland v Italy rugby game on Sunday, it did irk me that they didn't play Amhrán na bhFiann. Now I understand the reasons for this but it still is annoying that we appear to be the only country that doesn't have their anthem played before the game. I don't think I'd want to give that up for GAA matches. I'm with Brolly on this one.

Great article by brolly. Poor title by paper

graffiti appeared in Belfast city centre reading, 'SHAME ON YOU JOE'.

Most probably Joe scrawled that graffiti himself.

Can see moderate unionists (with a very small U) taking their children to a nearby existing clubs. No reason why they shouldn't. The more that do it the more the GAA will be demystified within the wider population. It really is crazy the level of paranoia that exists.

But how does an isolated unionist village/area start a club from scratch? Thinking 300 years down the line there  ;)

Quote from: BennyHarp on October 06, 2015, 10:45:32 PM
I wouldn't be the most jingoistic when it comes to National Anthems, flags etc but I must say that whilst attending the Ireland v Italy rugby game on Sunday, it did irk me that they didn't play Amhrán na bhFiann. Now I understand the reasons for this but it still is annoying that we appear to be the only country that doesn't have their anthem played before the game. I don't think I'd want to give that up for GAA matches. I'm with Brolly on this one.

Here's the question - Would you rather a split in the Irish Rugby team and we get Amhrán na bhFiann all the time?

Here's another - Would you like the North and the Republic to merge in Soccer and we use Ireland Call?


In other words which is more important and All Ireland team or an Anthem?

Quote from: From the Bunker on October 06, 2015, 11:10:50 PM

Quote from: BennyHarp on October 06, 2015, 10:45:32 PM
I wouldn't be the most jingoistic when it comes to National Anthems, flags etc but I must say that whilst attending the Ireland v Italy rugby game on Sunday, it did irk me that they didn't play Amhrán na bhFiann. Now I understand the reasons for this but it still is annoying that we appear to be the only country that doesn't have their anthem played before the game. I don't think I'd want to give that up for GAA matches. I'm with Brolly on this one.

Here's the question - Would you rather a split in the Irish Rugby team and we get Amhrán na bhFiann all the time?

Here's another - Would you like the North and the Republic to merge in Soccer and we use Ireland Call?


In other words which is more important and All Ireland team or an Anthem?

Ah Ffs, I'm not stupid, I know why they use Irelands Call, that's not my point and I couldn't care less about the Irish soccer team merging with the North.

The GAA is and always was a 32 county organisation, once we lose a bit of identity, like the anthem in rugby, then it's gone and it's not coming back. I didn't say I was outraged by this, I said I felt a bit irked. There would need to be a major groundswell of opinion for this to happen and for us to make changes like that and the ramblings of a few unionists isn't enough for me.

I'd be disappointed to see the anthem or the flag go. If I thought it would make a blind bit of difference I'd consider it though. However in the north there are very few instances where 'irishness' is displayed, yet when it is,it is attacked by unionists. On the flip side, when the most minor erosion of British symbolism occurs it is bedlam.i.e the flag protests,ardoyne. Personally think the gaa has made huge strides forward in this regard, and losing amhran na bhfiann would be going too far.

Quote from: BennyHarp on October 06, 2015, 11:23:03 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on October 06, 2015, 11:10:50 PM

Quote from: BennyHarp on October 06, 2015, 10:45:32 PM
I wouldn't be the most jingoistic when it comes to National Anthems, flags etc but I must say that whilst attending the Ireland v Italy rugby game on Sunday, it did irk me that they didn't play Amhrán na bhFiann. Now I understand the reasons for this but it still is annoying that we appear to be the only country that doesn't have their anthem played before the game. I don't think I'd want to give that up for GAA matches. I'm with Brolly on this one.

Here's the question - Would you rather a split in the Irish Rugby team and we get Amhrán na bhFiann all the time?

Here's another - Would you like the North and the Republic to merge in Soccer and we use Ireland Call?


In other words which is more important and All Ireland team or an Anthem?

Ah Ffs, I'm not stupid, I know why they use Irelands Call, that's not my point and I couldn't care less about the Irish soccer team merging with the North.

The GAA is and always was a 32 county organisation, once we lose a bit of identity, like the anthem in rugby, then it's gone and it's not coming back. I didn't say I was outraged by this, I said I felt a bit irked. There would need to be a major groundswell of opinion for this to happen and for us to make changes like that and the ramblings of a few unionists isn't enough for me.

Rugby gains alot more from the loss of playing ANB than it loses by not having belted out over some tannoy at Murrayfield. Is there nothing more heartening than seeing 15 men from the same island playing together irrespective of creed or politics? It's sport lads, if you want to get political every Sunday, join SF.

I don't give a fcuk about the Unionists but I think it's a pity that quite a few sound guys from prod backgrounds I know would feel a bit un-nerved playing or following GAA games. I'm sure they would feel equally disappointed that the loyalist vitrol and GSTQ means I never set foot in Windsor Park or feel comfortable supporting the NI soccer team. To it's credit Irish rugby has always remained apolitical and it's for it's betterment without a shadow of a doubt.

Times change lads. "The ban" is lifted. Croke Park is open to other sports. Cops and soldiers can play the game, how hard would it be to tone down the flags and anthems?

Is the 9 county provincial flag of ulster right with the tricolour. First time I noticed was against Italy.

Quote from: east down gael on October 06, 2015, 11:52:54 PM
I'd be disappointed to see the anthem or the flag go. If I thought it would make a blind bit of difference I'd consider it though. However in the north there are very few instances where 'irishness' is displayed, yet when it is,it is attacked by unionists. On the flip side, when the most minor erosion of British symbolism occurs it is bedlam.i.e the flag protests,ardoyne. Personally think the gaa has made huge strides forward in this regard, and losing amhran na bhfiann would be going too far.

Erosion, me hole.

The Union flag thing. That was a democratic vote which unionists couldn't accept because they have had things their way for so long they can't bear that they might have to compromise on everyday issues with the same people that they've been allowed (and encouraged) to tr**p over for generations. Same with marches.

It's not erosion, it's merely a sensible (sometimes) arrangement that doesn't involve triumphalist unionists tramping over Catholics.

In Many parts of this island the GAA is an irrelevance .  Huge parts of our urban areas are wastelands for GAA. Surely energy should be focused on this than placating hard line unionists. 

Quote from: balladmaker on October 06, 2015, 03:05:45 PM
I got a great insight into the mind of Phil Coulter from that article, imagine presenting each member of a football team with a framed, signed photo of yourself ...  shows how much Mr. Coulter thinks of himself, inflated ego comes to mind.

;D ;D ;D
The source is well dodgy tho

Quote from: rrhf on October 07, 2015, 12:27:45 AM
Is the 9 county provincial flag of ulster right with the tricolour. First time I noticed was against Italy.

Noticed that myself, I guess its to represent the ones that don't feel represented by the Tricolour and since there is no official Northern Ireland flag they use that. I'm told the yellow Ulster Flag is quite prominent at Ulster Rugby Games too.

Quote from: BennyCake on October 07, 2015, 01:01:44 AM

Quote from: east down gael on October 06, 2015, 11:52:54 PM
I'd be disappointed to see the anthem or the flag go. If I thought it would make a blind bit of difference I'd consider it though. However in the north there are very few instances where 'irishness' is displayed, yet when it is,it is attacked by unionists. On the flip side, when the most minor erosion of British symbolism occurs it is bedlam.i.e the flag protests,ardoyne. Personally think the gaa has made huge strides forward in this regard, and losing amhran na bhfiann would be going too far.

Erosion, me hole.

The Union flag thing. That was a democratic vote which unionists couldn't accept because they have had things their way for so long they can't bear that they might have to compromise on everyday issues with the same people that they've been allowed (and encouraged) to tr**p over for generations. Same with marches.

It's not erosion, it's merely a sensible (sometimes) arrangement that doesn't involve triumphalist unionists tramping over Catholics.

It's not erosion but is a game by politicians to make people believe it's erosion as it furthers their need and it's worked in a lot of cases. Sure even parties who voted for the flag to go down then went out and protested. It was just a big pawn to get at sinn fein and provide ammunition for unionist campaigns.

Anyway. I think it would be a step too far. As other people say we don't need these things at every games but things like county finals etc it has it's place.

Quote from: foxcommander on October 06, 2015, 08:35:28 PM

Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 07:58:48 PM

Quote from: foxcommander on October 06, 2015, 07:42:09 PM

Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2015, 07:06:47 PM
There are literally three things they can really ask the GAA to change. Anthem, flag and naming of clubs grounds/compititions. The latter I would imagine there are maybe a dozen or so "offensive" examples, confined to Ulster. Is it really so much for some people to even consider the merits of this? Ultimately it's for the people of those clubs to decide but try seeing it from a unionist perspective.

You mean airbrush history?

Why are people so worried about reaching out to unionists? Don't need them.

Lol. You're like a Catholic willie Frazer. How is that airbrushing anything?

I know, imagine reaching out to your neighbours, colleagues, business partners, friends etc  ::)

Did you actually read what you wrote? You're the one who wants to airbrush the GAA to make it unionist friendly.

Bloody sunday - never happened. Let's all move on and forget about it.

We should have a competition to see what the better alternatives are - although from the other thread I do like the sound of the the Sam Maguire being renamed the Jedward Cup. Who doesn't love them?

Liam McCarthy isn't really a sexy name. The Bono cup would draw more tweets and generate more social media.

The Hogan Stand as well as the Magazine/Website named after needs to go. How about a minor tweak - the Wogan Stand after Sir Terry Wogan - everyones favourite irishman.

Croke Park will need a rebranding. That's named after a papist. A bit of corporate sponsorship will sort that out.
The Ashers Cake Bowl has a certain ring to it.

what glue are you sniffing?

Quote from: MoChara on October 07, 2015, 08:18:07 AM

Quote from: rrhf on October 07, 2015, 12:27:45 AM
Is the 9 county provincial flag of ulster right with the tricolour. First time I noticed was against Italy.

Noticed that myself, I guess its to represent the ones that don't feel represented by the Tricolour and since there is no official Northern Ireland flag they use that. I'm told the yellow Ulster Flag is quite prominent at Ulster Rugby Games too.

Ulster Rugby is a 9 county organisation hence the reason they use the Provincial flag.

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 08:18:22 PM
General lee they are perfectly welcome that's the thing. The people from the "pul" community who cry out for this are the people who wouldn't go near it.

It's not being small minded being against it. i am not overly political but i see no need to appease people who are nothing but bigots and that is what this feels like an exercise like this would be - appeasement to bigots.

I'm not saying they aren't welcome. Of course they are and I know for a fact plenty do play our games. But numbers are miniscule in the grand scheme of things and it is simply tunnel vision to view this debate as an appeasement exercise. There is scope for expanding our games while at the same time improving relations with our neighbours with imo a very small price to pay.

Quote from: omaghjoe on October 07, 2015, 06:50:09 AM

Quote from: balladmaker on October 06, 2015, 03:05:45 PM
I got a great insight into the mind of Phil Coulter from that article, imagine presenting each member of a football team with a framed, signed photo of yourself ...  shows how much Mr. Coulter thinks of himself, inflated ego comes to mind.

;D ;D ;D
The source is well dodgy tho

(http://cdn3.independent.ie/incoming/article31579797.ece/56352/ALTERNATES/w620/13%20real%20coulterbrolly.jpg)

Quote from: general_lee on October 07, 2015, 09:16:44 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 08:18:22 PM
General lee they are perfectly welcome that's the thing. The people from the "pul" community who cry out for this are the people who wouldn't go near it.

It's not being small minded being against it. i am not overly political but i see no need to appease people who are nothing but bigots and that is what this feels like an exercise like this would be - appeasement to bigots.

I'm not saying they aren't welcome. Of course they are and I know for a fact plenty do play our games. But numbers are miniscule in the grand scheme of things and it is simply tunnel vision to view this debate as an appeasement exercise. There is scope for expanding our games while at the same time improving relations with our neighbours with imo a very small price to pay.

Who would it improve relations with? I don't see how it's tunnel vision. It would only be tunnel vision if it was in any way an uninclusive organisation at present which it is not.

Reasonable people will know what the GAA is about and know it is inclusive. Unreasonable bigots will always find some stick to beat them with.

I'd be interested in seeing the uptake in "integrated" schools etc. That kind of area is somewhere it could be improved upon. Even integrated schools competitions etc.

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 07, 2015, 09:28:20 AM

Quote from: general_lee on October 07, 2015, 09:16:44 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 08:18:22 PM
General lee they are perfectly welcome that's the thing. The people from the "pul" community who cry out for this are the people who wouldn't go near it.

It's not being small minded being against it. i am not overly political but i see no need to appease people who are nothing but bigots and that is what this feels like an exercise like this would be - appeasement to bigots.

I'm not saying they aren't welcome. Of course they are and I know for a fact plenty do play our games. But numbers are miniscule in the grand scheme of things and it is simply tunnel vision to view this debate as an appeasement exercise. There is scope for expanding our games while at the same time improving relations with our neighbours with imo a very small price to pay.

Who would it improve relations with? I don't see how it's tunnel vision. It would only be tunnel vision if it was in any way an uninclusive organisation at present which it is not.

Reasonable people will know what the GAA is about and know it is inclusive. Unreasonable bigots will always find some stick to beat them with.

I'd be interested in seeing the uptake in "integrated" schools etc. That kind of area is somewhere it could be improved upon. Even integrated schools competitions etc.

Well for a start it's tunnel vision by virtue of the fact that you can't see how the GAA might come across as non-inclusive. It's easy to say anyone with any reservations about the GAA is an unreasonable bigot.
Like I'm sure plenty of small rural clubs in Ulster, especially in county Armagh anyway, are in areas with a mixed if not largely Protestant population. These teams struggle, would it not be good for the association that their numbers be bolstered? Or are all those Protestants unreasonable for not joining? What's keeping them away? They can't all be bigots...

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 07, 2015, 09:28:20 AM

Quote from: general_lee on October 07, 2015, 09:16:44 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2015, 08:18:22 PM
General lee they are perfectly welcome that's the thing. The people from the "pul" community who cry out for this are the people who wouldn't go near it.

It's not being small minded being against it. i am not overly political but i see no need to appease people who are nothing but bigots and that is what this feels like an exercise like this would be - appeasement to bigots.

I'm not saying they aren't welcome. Of course they are and I know for a fact plenty do play our games. But numbers are miniscule in the grand scheme of things and it is simply tunnel vision to view this debate as an appeasement exercise. There is scope for expanding our games while at the same time improving relations with our neighbours with imo a very small price to pay.

Who would it improve relations with? I don't see how it's tunnel vision. It would only be tunnel vision if it was in any way an uninclusive organisation at present which it is not.

Reasonable people will know what the GAA is about and know it is inclusive. Unreasonable bigots will always find some stick to beat them with.

I'd be interested in seeing the uptake in "integrated" schools etc. That kind of area is somewhere it could be improved upon. Even integrated schools competitions etc.

Yeah the English Defence League were all inclusive too, they actively said they welcomed people from the black community and Asian community but still used Nazi and far right symbols.

If you don't understand why the average joe protestant living in ulster finds the irish flag and anthem intimidating or unwelcoming they you are a prime example of whats wrong in the north today and will be for years to come.

People need to get it out of their thick heads and notions up here that it is not placating to hardline unionists!! They will never want to be part of it just like some of you on here sound like hard line nationalists who never want to change! You are the same thing just a different colour.

Yes because the GAA is just like the EDL and having a flag flying at a few matches a year is just the same ::) Yes I am as big a bigot as Tom Elliot and Willie Fraser because I don't agree with removing the flag and the anthem from big matches  ::) Wise up.

So let's say we remove the flag what do we do with the naming of grounds?

This is a prime example of the world going PC mad. Yes you must be completely backward and bigoted if you don't agree with the completely PC line.

Flags and anthems are totally unnecessary trimmings to any sporting fixture.
In most places national flags and anthems are totally non contentious.
However in the 6 Cos they are totally divisive as there are 2 National allegiances involved.
Some time in the future (but before we have a new all Ireland political entity with new flag/anthem) the sporting organisations in the 6 Cos will adopt a convention where no National flags or anthems will be used.
Simple.

No one is saying banning the flag and/or the anthem from GAA grounds, and no one is saying Prods will suddenly flock to their local club if there were no flag flying over it. But there have to be some clubs in the North who live in a place where there isn't much in the way of sectarian tension and the bitter memories of the past are beginning to fade as a new generation comes on stream. And in these places there is a member of the committee whos know that Sammy Thompson who is a decent chap and that Sammy likes to keep an eye on how the county team are doing and thinks that football would be a grand fit for his son but the aul Tricolour, while Sammy would never be disrespectful to the flag of his neighbours and their green passport he doesn't really relish the prospect of his boy trotting around under it all the time and there are plenty like Sammy in the parish and if only the club could dial back the displays of Nationalism a little bit then, well, who knows? And if it's important enough to a club to carry on flying the flag and they weren't too bothered about Sammy and his ilk, that's fine too. We don't have to have a one-size-fits-all Association. That's what I would be saying here.

But the GAA is not a 6 co. organisation.  (Sorry, I meant that for Rossfan)

Neither is rubby or boxing and they don't fly Tricolours at their events in the 6 Cos.
Also the GAA can deal with the Dáil and Stormont despite neither of them having control over a "32 County Ireland".
Does that contravene that bit of Rule 1?

Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2015, 11:25:09 AM
Neither is rubby or boxing and they don't fly Tricolours at their events in the 6 Cos.
Also the GAA can deal with the Dáil and Stormont despite neither of them having control over a "32 County Ireland".
Does that contravene that bit of Rule 1?

Fair enough. But what I'm asking is are you looking for the retention of the Anthem at county finals and Provincial finals in LCM, but not in Ulster?

Quote from: deiseach on October 07, 2015, 11:18:49 AM
No one is saying banning the flag and/or the anthem from GAA grounds, and no one is saying Prods will suddenly flock to their local club if there were no flag flying over it. But there have to be some clubs in the North who live in a place where there isn't much in the way of sectarian tension and the bitter memories of the past are beginning to fade as a new generation comes on stream. And in these places there is a member of the committee whos know that Sammy Thompson who is a decent chap and that Sammy likes to keep an eye on how the county team are doing and thinks that football would be a grand fit for his son but the aul Tricolour, while Sammy would never be disrespectful to the flag of his neighbours and their green passport he doesn't really relish the prospect of his boy trotting around under it all the time and there are plenty like Sammy in the parish and if only the club could dial back the displays of Nationalism a little bit then, well, who knows? And if it's important enough to a club to carry on flying the flag and they weren't too bothered about Sammy and his ilk, that's fine too. We don't have to have a one-size-fits-all Association. That's what I would be saying here.

I would agree with that.

Fair comment deiseach.

Out of curiosity.. What is the standard procedure for flag flying at club level? My own club rarely has the tricolour up unless we are hosting a champ match. Other clubs fly it for all senior league games along with their own club colours (and sometimes the opposition colours). There is one club even played A na bhF over the pa before throw in which I thought was weird

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 07, 2015, 11:36:00 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2015, 11:25:09 AM
Neither is rubby or boxing and they don't fly Tricolours at their events in the 6 Cos.
Also the GAA can deal with the Dáil and Stormont despite neither of them having control over a "32 County Ireland".
Does that contravene that bit of Rule 1?

Fair enough. But what I'm asking is are you looking for the retention of the Anthem at county finals and Provincial finals in LCM, but not in Ulster?

Just not in 6 Cos - but as part of an all sports convention or practice.
However i wouldn't lose any sleep if no anthems or flags were played or flown at any sporting events as I and I'm sure nearly all the spectators are there for the sporting activity.

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 07, 2015, 11:46:15 AM

Quote from: deiseach on October 07, 2015, 11:18:49 AM
No one is saying banning the flag and/or the anthem from GAA grounds, and no one is saying Prods will suddenly flock to their local club if there were no flag flying over it. But there have to be some clubs in the North who live in a place where there isn't much in the way of sectarian tension and the bitter memories of the past are beginning to fade as a new generation comes on stream. And in these places there is a member of the committee whos know that Sammy Thompson who is a decent chap and that Sammy likes to keep an eye on how the county team are doing and thinks that football would be a grand fit for his son but the aul Tricolour, while Sammy would never be disrespectful to the flag of his neighbours and their green passport he doesn't really relish the prospect of his boy trotting around under it all the time and there are plenty like Sammy in the parish and if only the club could dial back the displays of Nationalism a little bit then, well, who knows? And if it's important enough to a club to carry on flying the flag and they weren't too bothered about Sammy and his ilk, that's fine too. We don't have to have a one-size-fits-all Association. That's what I would be saying here.

I would agree with that.

Sort of how catholics feel going to Windsor you mean?

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2015, 02:44:53 PM
Sort of how catholics feel going to Windsor you mean?

Let's say 'yes'. Then you can hit me with your gotcha ;)

Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2015, 11:18:27 AM
Flags and anthems are totally unnecessary trimmings to any sporting fixture.
In most places national flags and anthems are totally non contentious.
However in the 6 Cos they are totally divisive as there are 2 National allegiances involved.
Some time in the future (but before we have a new all Ireland political entity with new flag/anthem) the sporting organisations in the 6 Cos will adopt a convention where no National flags or anthems will be used.
I am a Simpleton.

Spoken like a true freestater.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2015, 02:44:53 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 07, 2015, 11:46:15 AM

Quote from: deiseach on October 07, 2015, 11:18:49 AM
No one is saying banning the flag and/or the anthem from GAA grounds, and no one is saying Prods will suddenly flock to their local club if there were no flag flying over it. But there have to be some clubs in the North who live in a place where there isn't much in the way of sectarian tension and the bitter memories of the past are beginning to fade as a new generation comes on stream. And in these places there is a member of the committee whos know that Sammy Thompson who is a decent chap and that Sammy likes to keep an eye on how the county team are doing and thinks that football would be a grand fit for his son but the aul Tricolour, while Sammy would never be disrespectful to the flag of his neighbours and their green passport he doesn't really relish the prospect of his boy trotting around under it all the time and there are plenty like Sammy in the parish and if only the club could dial back the displays of Nationalism a little bit then, well, who knows? And if it's important enough to a club to carry on flying the flag and they weren't too bothered about Sammy and his ilk, that's fine too. We don't have to have a one-size-fits-all Association. That's what I would be saying here.

I would agree with that.

Sort of how catholics feel going to Windsor you mean?

The most childish argument yet. "We shouldn't do it because they didn't do it." I would certainly not want to go down the road of comparing The GAA to the IFA or irish league. The GAA should stride ahead and break barriers despite what any other sport does.

If Northern Ireland downed the Britishness and sectarianism I would probably go watch, but not as a supporter as I class myself as Irish.

Quote from: redhandefender on October 07, 2015, 03:09:02 PM
If Northern Ireland downed the Britishness and sectarianism I would probably go watch, but not as a supporter as I class myself as Irish.

If Northern IRELAND downed Britishness and sectarianism would they not be just simply IRISH too?

Why do players and supporters from Kerry show so little respect for the national anthem?   

Quote from: longballin on October 07, 2015, 03:46:59 PM
Why do players and supporters from Kerry show so little respect for the national anthem?

?

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 07, 2015, 03:47:25 PM

Quote from: longballin on October 07, 2015, 03:46:59 PM
Why do players and supporters from Kerry show so little respect for the national anthem?

?

Check footage of players 2008 final for example stretching and dancing about (especailly the keeper) and supporters cheering long before it is over. The only time it has been given due respect with silence until the very end is 2003 final Armagh V Tyrone and there are boys here call us British  ::)

I don't like the Brits insinuation that you see knocking around here - and it's often a lot stronger than an insinuation. Then again, I've seen Tyrone folk refer to 'the Londons' so punching below the belt isn't  exclusively the preserve of those of us below the border.

Quote from: longballin on October 07, 2015, 05:02:48 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 07, 2015, 03:47:25 PM

Quote from: longballin on October 07, 2015, 03:46:59 PM
Why do players and supporters from Kerry show so little respect for the national anthem?

?

Check footage of players 2008 final for example stretching and dancing about (especailly the keeper) and supporters cheering long before it is over. The only time it has been given due respect with silence until the very end is 2003 final Armagh V Tyrone and there are boys here call us British  ::)

And there it is. No one is as Irish as up here hi.

I don't think Kerry disrespect the national anthem, but I think you are right about some players who tend to be keyed up and don't stand to attention as they should. I think that has gotten a lot better though, and I've been watching for it.

As regards the shouting before the end, that is not just Kerry by a long shot. It's practically every team that does it. I don't like it either, but it does happen.

Quote from: MoChara on October 06, 2015, 08:14:07 AM
Farcical title but I think the article itself was spot on.

The article isn't bad at all. Pity that some clown completely misrepresented it with the daft headline.

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 07, 2015, 05:13:28 PM

Quote from: longballin on October 07, 2015, 05:02:48 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 07, 2015, 03:47:25 PM

Quote from: longballin on October 07, 2015, 03:46:59 PM
Why do players and supporters from Kerry show so little respect for the national anthem?

?

Check footage of players 2008 final for example stretching and dancing about (especailly the keeper) and supporters cheering long before it is over. The only time it has been given due respect with silence until the very end is 2003 final Armagh V Tyrone and there are boys here call us British  ::)

And there it is. No one is as Irish as up here hi.

I don't think Kerry disrespect the national anthem, but I think you are right about some players who tend to be keyed up and don't stand to attention as they should. I think that has gotten a lot better though, and I've been watching for it.

As regards the shouting before the end, that is not just Kerry by a long shot. It's practically every team that does it. I don't like it either, but it does happen.

Good man! it should be respected.

Quote from: BennyCake on October 07, 2015, 01:01:44 AM

Quote from: east down gael on October 06, 2015, 11:52:54 PM
I'd be disappointed to see the anthem or the flag go. If I thought it would make a blind bit of difference I'd consider it though. However in the north there are very few instances where 'irishness' is displayed, yet when it is,it is attacked by unionists. On the flip side, when the most minor erosion of British symbolism occurs it is bedlam.i.e the flag protests,ardoyne. Personally think the gaa has made huge strides forward in this regard, and losing amhran na bhfiann would be going too far.

Erosion, me hole.

Benny,my apologies I should have put erosion in inverted commas but I think you get my point.the gaa have done more than enough to reach out to the other community while still getting attacked over petty things like club names and ground names.
I don't stand for the anthem or look at the flag to piss off unionists,I don't do it in unionist areas.yet the same people who attack the gaa will steadfastly refuse to accept that their cost trailing through nationalist areas is anything other than sectarian triumphalism.
  I guess my point is that there is a limit to how much you can reach out to people who just don't want to be reached.

The Union flag thing. That was a democratic vote which unionists couldn't accept because they have had things their way for so long they can't bear that they might have to compromise on everyday issues with the same people that they've been allowed (and encouraged) to tr**p over for generations. Same with marches.

It's not erosion, it's merely a sensible (sometimes) arrangement that doesn't involve triumphalist unionists tramping over Catholics.

Quote from: Snapchap on October 07, 2015, 09:25:13 AM

Quote from: omaghjoe on October 07, 2015, 06:50:09 AM

Quote from: balladmaker on October 06, 2015, 03:05:45 PM
I got a great insight into the mind of Phil Coulter from that article, imagine presenting each member of a football team with a framed, signed photo of yourself ...  shows how much Mr. Coulter thinks of himself, inflated ego comes to mind.

;D ;D ;D
The source is well dodgy tho

(http://cdn3.independent.ie/incoming/article31579797.ece/56352/ALTERNATES/w620/13%20real%20coulterbrolly.jpg)

;D

Well there you go.

Wait...where'd u get from?? Is that u Joe?

 
Coming from a small rural club in a very strong Unionist/Protestant area, we continually struggle for numbers and at one stage a few years ago considered folding .Thankfully we are now a stronger club fluctuating between Junior and Intermediate.
At best we are tolerated by our protestant neighbours ,at worst extreme violence used against us, club house burnt down, members shot etc etc my own cousins dead and so on .

That was in the past and since the noughties onwards we have enjoyed relative peace . Our club has flourished and we have grounds to be proud of. What kept us together was our love of the sport(Football ,Hurling) the culture(Scor ,Irish Language etc) and our national identity. To us the club was not just a game of football, it was and still is, a strong source of national identity .

At championship games we fly the tricolour and play the national anthem and when it's played I as a chairman am so proud to know that after all the trouble and strife  we are still here.  I want to move forward , I want my neighbours playing our games but do I want to sacrifice my flag, my anthem? No definitely not, no more that I want the Unionists to abandon their sashes on the twelfth to please me . I accept what they are .It doesn't bother me at all. They shouldn't have to refine or redefine who they are . I might not like certain aspects but don't go changing it on my account. Similarly don't ask the GAA to waterdown our culture to make it acceptable to a minority.

Take me for what I am or not at all.
It reminds of a meeting I went  to in Armagh a good number of years ago set up by the bishops to make St Patricks Day more inclusive of both communities.  The Protestant representatives  proposal was not to have any green on display. No green bunting etc.Needless to say it was rejected and today the parade in Armagh is a huge success participated in by both cultures Ulster Scotch and Irish and more green than the New York Parade . We should learn to embrace each others culture and  not to become offended by it and dilute it. We are the guardians and custodians of our culture  not just the owners.
When our new facilities opened a few years back the then Galway Chairman came up with their county team and on looking at our history in pictures on a wall said our club more than anything else made him so proud to be Irish and GAA.   
My club is there for all to join. I can't join the Orange order even if I wanted to but I still respect their Britishness. To ask me to change our club name  ,remove our Anthem , take down our flag , remove the Irish name plates on all the doors all in the cause of inclusivity smacks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Quote from: rionach 4 on October 09, 2015, 03:46:15 PM
 
Coming from a small rural club in a very strong Unionist/Protestant area, we continually struggle for numbers and at one stage a few years ago considered folding .Thankfully we are now a stronger club fluctuating between Junior and Intermediate.
At best we are tolerated by our protestant neighbours ,at worst extreme violence used against us, club house burnt down, members shot etc etc my own cousins dead and so on .

That was in the past and since the noughties onwards we have enjoyed relative peace . Our club has flourished and we have grounds to be proud of. What kept us together was our love of the sport(Football ,Hurling) the culture(Scor ,Irish Language etc) and our national identity. To us the club was not just a game of football, it was and still is, a strong source of national identity .

At championship games we fly the tricolour and play the national anthem and when it's played I as a chairman am so proud to know that after all the trouble and strife  we are still here.  I want to move forward , I want my neighbours playing our games but do I want to sacrifice my flag, my anthem? No definitely not, no more that I want the Unionists to abandon their sashes on the twelfth to please me . I accept what they are .It doesn't bother me at all. They shouldn't have to refine or redefine who they are . I might not like certain aspects but don't go changing it on my account. Similarly don't ask the GAA to waterdown our culture to make it acceptable to a minority.

Take me for what I am or not at all.
It reminds of a meeting I went  to in Armagh a good number of years ago set up by the bishops to make St Patricks Day more inclusive of both communities.  The Protestant representatives  proposal was not to have any green on display. No green bunting etc.Needless to say it was rejected and today the parade in Armagh is a huge success participated in by both cultures Ulster Scotch and Irish and more green than the New York Parade . We should learn to embrace each others culture and  not to become offended by it and dilute it. We are the guardians and custodians of our culture  not just the owners.
When our new facilities opened a few years back the then Galway Chairman came up with their county team and on looking at our history in pictures on a wall said our club more than anything else made him so proud to be Irish and GAA.   
My club is there for all to join. I can't join the Orange order even if I wanted to but I still respect their Britishness. To ask me to change our club name  ,remove our Anthem , take down our flag , remove the Irish name plates on all the doors all in the cause of inclusivity smacks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Great post and one i'm sure a lot of people involved with clubs in the north can associate with.

Rionach I am fairly certain of what club you are a member of. In many ways your club epitomises the importance of the GAA and you and your clubmates are to be commended for continuing to keep the games alive in your area especially against such adversity - but I ask you this: if you could have 5-10 guaranteed extra players at each age group pull on your club jersey, would you still not sacrifice the flag and anthem?

The people who changed the name of the food are a bunch of richardheads in my opinion.  Those donkeyholes should be ashamed of themselves.

Quote from: general_lee on October 09, 2015, 04:17:59 PM
Rionach I am fairly certain of what club you are a member of. In many ways your club epitomises the importance of the GAA and you and your clubmates are to be commended for continuing to keep the games alive in your area especially against such adversity - but I ask you this: if you could have 5-10 guaranteed extra players at each age group pull on your club jersey, would you still not sacrifice the flag and anthem?

I think he answered that question gl

The unionist community (those that want to know) know that the GAA is open to everyone and those that do get involved understand that the anthem on the flag is part of the pomp and ceremony of our organisation. They know that triumphalism is not what its about in a GAA ground.
We have a few people from 'da udder side' involved in our club and they have immersed themselves in the games. They know what motivates a GAA man as they're now hurling men themselves. They're now no different than you or me and don't get treated any different as should be the case. So for them, the spell is broken, a GAA club is open to all who want to come and get involved.

Quote from: general_lee on October 09, 2015, 04:17:59 PM
Rionach I am fairly certain of what club you are a member of. In many ways your club epitomises the importance of the GAA and you and your clubmates are to be commended for continuing to keep the games alive in your area especially against such adversity - but I ask you this: if you could have 5-10 guaranteed extra players at each age group pull on your club jersey, would you still not sacrifice the flag and anthem?

Really? Did you read his post?

Skull, would those folks from the other side be Unionists, unionists or apolitical??

Honestly I've never even asked myself the question.

But if I was guessing apolitical

Quote from: BennyHarp on October 09, 2015, 08:33:09 PM

Quote from: general_lee on October 09, 2015, 04:17:59 PM
Rionach I am fairly certain of what club you are a member of. In many ways your club epitomises the importance of the GAA and you and your clubmates are to be commended for continuing to keep the games alive in your area especially against such adversity - but I ask you this: if you could have 5-10 guaranteed extra players at each age group pull on your club jersey, would you still not sacrifice the flag and anthem?

Really? Did you read his post?

::) I did yeah.

Just find it hard to comprehend, if it is the club I'm thinking of.

I know if my own club could have an extra 5-10 u21s, minors, u16s etc I'd gladly give up flag and anthem.

Quote from: general_lee on October 10, 2015, 12:01:32 AM

Quote from: BennyHarp on October 09, 2015, 08:33:09 PM

Quote from: general_lee on October 09, 2015, 04:17:59 PM
Rionach I am fairly certain of what club you are a member of. In many ways your club epitomises the importance of the GAA and you and your clubmates are to be commended for continuing to keep the games alive in your area especially against such adversity - but I ask you this: if you could have 5-10 guaranteed extra players at each age group pull on your club jersey, would you still not sacrifice the flag and anthem?

Really? Did you read his post?

::) I did yeah.

Just find it hard to comprehend, if it is the club I'm thinking of.

I know if my own club could have an extra 5-10 u21s, minors, u16s etc I'd gladly give up flag and anthem.

Do you really reckon that by giving up a flag that 5-10 extra lads from the Unionist community would join the club at every age group? Are you suggesting that there's the guts of 35/40 young Protestants kids ready and waiting to join the club? The question has to be asked then. If these lads are so keen to play the game but are put off by a flag and an anthem, why do you think flag and anthem should be more important to their beliefs than the beliefs of the home club?

By the way, I think Rionach's post was one of the most fair minded and honest posts I've read on here for a long time and wish his club all the best.

Imagine rugby authorities telling New Zealand that they had to stop the haka as other teams considered it intimidatory? There are some things that are just part and parcel of the occasion. Get over it I say...its not what our games are about but its part of us just the same.

Quote from: rionach 4 on October 09, 2015, 03:46:15 PM
 
Coming from a small rural club in a very strong Unionist/Protestant area, we continually struggle for numbers and at one stage a few years ago considered folding .Thankfully we are now a stronger club fluctuating between Junior and Intermediate.
At best we are tolerated by our protestant neighbours ,at worst extreme violence used against us, club house burnt down, members shot etc etc my own cousins dead and so on .

That was in the past and since the noughties onwards we have enjoyed relative peace . Our club has flourished and we have grounds to be proud of. What kept us together was our love of the sport(Football ,Hurling) the culture(Scor ,Irish Language etc) and our national identity. To us the club was not just a game of football, it was and still is, a strong source of national identity .

At championship games we fly the tricolour and play the national anthem and when it's played I as a chairman am so proud to know that after all the trouble and strife  we are still here.  I want to move forward , I want my neighbours playing our games but do I want to sacrifice my flag, my anthem? No definitely not, no more that I want the Unionists to abandon their sashes on the twelfth to please me . I accept what they are .It doesn't bother me at all. They shouldn't have to refine or redefine who they are . I might not like certain aspects but don't go changing it on my account. Similarly don't ask the GAA to waterdown our culture to make it acceptable to a minority.

Take me for what I am or not at all.
It reminds of a meeting I went  to in Armagh a good number of years ago set up by the bishops to make St Patricks Day more inclusive of both communities.  The Protestant representatives  proposal was not to have any green on display. No green bunting etc.Needless to say it was rejected and today the parade in Armagh is a huge success participated in by both cultures Ulster Scotch and Irish and more green than the New York Parade . We should learn to embrace each others culture and  not to become offended by it and dilute it. We are the guardians and custodians of our culture  not just the owners.
When our new facilities opened a few years back the then Galway Chairman came up with their county team and on looking at our history in pictures on a wall said our club more than anything else made him so proud to be Irish and GAA.   
My club is there for all to join. I can't join the Orange order even if I wanted to but I still respect their Britishness. To ask me to change our club name  ,remove our Anthem , take down our flag , remove the Irish name plates on all the doors all in the cause of inclusivity smacks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't think it's in any way appropriate to be equating the GAA with the Orange Order. It's not much of a benchmark to set ourselves. And you can't compare the prospect of a protestant joining the GAA with a Catholic joining the OO.

The last line too - I don't see why anyone would have valid grounds to argue against the Irish language. That is something that should be open to all, regardless of political persuasion.

Quote from: BennyHarp on October 10, 2015, 12:32:10 AM

Quote from: general_lee on October 10, 2015, 12:01:32 AM

Quote from: BennyHarp on October 09, 2015, 08:33:09 PM

Quote from: general_lee on October 09, 2015, 04:17:59 PM
Rionach I am fairly certain of what club you are a member of. In many ways your club epitomises the importance of the GAA and you and your clubmates are to be commended for continuing to keep the games alive in your area especially against such adversity - but I ask you this: if you could have 5-10 guaranteed extra players at each age group pull on your club jersey, would you still not sacrifice the flag and anthem?

Really? Did you read his post?

::) I did yeah.

Just find it hard to comprehend, if it is the club I'm thinking of.

I know if my own club could have an extra 5-10 u21s, minors, u16s etc I'd gladly give up flag and anthem.

Do you really reckon that by giving up a flag that 5-10 extra lads from the Unionist community would join the club at every age group? Are you suggesting that there's the guts of 35/40 young Protestants kids ready and waiting to join the club? The question has to be asked then. If these lads are so keen to play the game but are put off by a flag and an anthem, why do you think flag and anthem should be more important to their beliefs than the beliefs of the home club?

By the way, I think Rionach's post was one of the most fair minded and honest posts I've read on here for a long time and wish his club all the best.

It was a hypothetical question Benny aimed at someone whose club has been on the brink not too long ago; I thought that would have been patently obvious. I am not seriously suggesting there are that many kids from a unionist background waiting in the wings to join this particular GAA club ;but are being held back by the flag and anthem.

It's good though to get the viewpoints of others, my own club would struggle, maybe not to the extent of Rionach's, yet my perspective would be somewhat different. I don't think the absence of flag/anthem would dilute my sport and culture any way whatsoever.

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 10, 2015, 10:02:43 AM

Quote from: rionach 4 on October 09, 2015, 03:46:15 PM
 
Coming from a small rural club in a very strong Unionist/Protestant area, we continually struggle for numbers and at one stage a few years ago considered folding .Thankfully we are now a stronger club fluctuating between Junior and Intermediate.
At best we are tolerated by our protestant neighbours ,at worst extreme violence used against us, club house burnt down, members shot etc etc my own cousins dead and so on .

That was in the past and since the noughties onwards we have enjoyed relative peace . Our club has flourished and we have grounds to be proud of. What kept us together was our love of the sport(Football ,Hurling) the culture(Scor ,Irish Language etc) and our national identity. To us the club was not just a game of football, it was and still is, a strong source of national identity .

At championship games we fly the tricolour and play the national anthem and when it's played I as a chairman am so proud to know that after all the trouble and strife  we are still here.  I want to move forward , I want my neighbours playing our games but do I want to sacrifice my flag, my anthem? No definitely not, no more that I want the Unionists to abandon their sashes on the twelfth to please me . I accept what they are .It doesn't bother me at all. They shouldn't have to refine or redefine who they are . I might not like certain aspects but don't go changing it on my account. Similarly don't ask the GAA to waterdown our culture to make it acceptable to a minority.

Take me for what I am or not at all.
It reminds of a meeting I went  to in Armagh a good number of years ago set up by the bishops to make St Patricks Day more inclusive of both communities.  The Protestant representatives  proposal was not to have any green on display. No green bunting etc.Needless to say it was rejected and today the parade in Armagh is a huge success participated in by both cultures Ulster Scotch and Irish and more green than the New York Parade . We should learn to embrace each others culture and  not to become offended by it and dilute it. We are the guardians and custodians of our culture  not just the owners.
When our new facilities opened a few years back the then Galway Chairman came up with their county team and on looking at our history in pictures on a wall said our club more than anything else made him so proud to be Irish and GAA.   
My club is there for all to join. I can't join the Orange order even if I wanted to but I still respect their Britishness. To ask me to change our club name  ,remove our Anthem , take down our flag , remove the Irish name plates on all the doors all in the cause of inclusivity smacks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't think it's in any way appropriate to be equating the GAA with the Orange Order. It's not much of a benchmark to set ourselves. And you can't compare the prospect of a protestant joining the GAA with a Catholic joining the OO.

The last line too - I don't see why anyone would have valid grounds to argue against the Irish language. That is something that should be open to all, regardless of political persuasion.

It's obvious then that you haven't heard Gregory Campbells   "Currie my Youghurt " rant . Many in the Unionist community see the Irish language as a further extension of nationalists trying to impose their identity on them. Go to stormont or any council meeting to hear them snigger and scoff when Irish is used. The point I was making with the OO  is if it's their thing they are welcome to it. It doesn't annoy me. I dont compare them to the GAA .and to emphasise the point I stated that I couldnt join it even if I wanted to.

Aren't there a crowd of "loyalists" in East Belfast running ranganna Gaeilge?
I heard some were guests at the AI hurling final.

 ;D

Quote from: Rossfan on October 10, 2015, 11:44:02 AM
Aren't there a crowd of "loyalists" in East Belfast running ranganna Gaeilge?
I heard some were guests at the AI hurling final.

Yes there are and it is led by Dawn Purvis former head of the PUP .
An enlighened group who I met in Donegal at the Gaeltacht this summer.  Unfortunately East Belfast is the domain of Peter Robinson and Dawn mentioned the struggle  to maintain their Ranganna Gaelige in that area.

Quote from: rionach 4 on October 10, 2015, 12:47:18 PM
;D

Quote from: Rossfan on October 10, 2015, 11:44:02 AM
Aren't there a crowd of "loyalists" in East Belfast running ranganna Gaeilge?
I heard some were guests at the AI hurling final.

Yes there are and it is led by Dawn Purvis former head of the PUP .
An enlighened group who I met in Donegal at the Gaeltacht this summer.  Unfortunately East Belfast is the domain of Peter Robinson and Dawn mentioned the struggle  to maintain their Ranganna Gaelige in that area.

Linda Ervine, you mean?

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 10, 2015, 09:53:39 PM

Quote from: rionach 4 on October 10, 2015, 12:47:18 PM
;D

Quote from: Rossfan on October 10, 2015, 11:44:02 AM
Aren't there a crowd of "loyalists" in East Belfast running ranganna Gaeilge?
I heard some were guests at the AI hurling final.

Yes there are and it is led by Dawn Purvis former head of the PUP .
An enlighened group who I met in Donegal at the Gaeltacht this summer.  Unfortunately East Belfast is the domain of Peter Robinson and Dawn mentioned the struggle  to maintain their Ranganna Gaelige in that area.

Linda Ervine, you mean?

Yes, it is Linda. Met her at a wedding in the summer. Nice lady, and good intentions.

Quote from: Orior on October 10, 2015, 10:00:30 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 10, 2015, 09:53:39 PM

Quote from: rionach 4 on October 10, 2015, 12:47:18 PM
;D

Quote from: Rossfan on October 10, 2015, 11:44:02 AM
Aren't there a crowd of "loyalists" in East Belfast running ranganna Gaeilge?
I heard some were guests at the AI hurling final.

Yes there are and it is led by Dawn Purvis former head of the PUP .
An enlighened group who I met in Donegal at the Gaeltacht this summer.  Unfortunately East Belfast is the domain of Peter Robinson and Dawn mentioned the struggle  to maintain their Ranganna Gaelige in that area.

Linda Ervine, you mean?

Yes, it is Linda. Met her at a wedding in the summer. Nice lady, and good intentions.

Sorry meant Linda Ervine