I'm sure many have seen it and been honest I've seen it and have struggled to get imagine out of head (so won't be posting it).
But what a world we are living in. So much wrong and these people fleeing their own life's and risking so much, yet are viewed as such a plague on modern Europe.
It's a picture that I hope results in change.
And what can we do to make change happen? I don't really know either.
A humanitarian disaster being viewed through xenophobic eyes.
The ongoing austerity means that many look on those in greater need as being in competition with them for help.
Because of the upcoming Brexit referendum there will be little support from the UK.
It certainly shook me up when I saw it, you wouldn't begrudge anyone fleeing somewhere like Syria.
I came across this picture in my Facebook feed earlier this evening and it's absolutely heartbreaking. The desperation of that poor boys family to take the risk they did and end up paying the ultimate price for it just shows you how desperate these people are. They are not risking life and limb to get to Europe for a poxy few quid on the dole and house on benefits street.
I don't know what the answer to this all is but governments of Europe need to wake up and deal with this as it's not going away.
My children are 2, 5 and 7. I can see no difference in them and those on the beech. The picture broke my heart. It's a cruel world we live in. :'(
Hopefully this is a game changer, albeit a tragic one.
Oh jesus I just seen it...felt physically sick seeing that, still do. Can't get it out of my head
The sad thing is that this will be forgotten about in no time whereas if it was a child from a developed nation it would be a catastrophe.
Sometimes it takes a picture like that to ram home the realities of news stories which we become imune to. When yousee a picture of a dead child lying on a beach in Europe. It is time for the people of this country and others to sit up and demand that real action is taken to ensure a safe place is made available to these poor souls. This week alone Ireland has been named along with the UK as being countries refusing to do their bit. The peaple of these islands should be ashamed especially the Irish who for generations have left these shoresfor humanitarian and econonic reasons and should know better.
Quote from: An Watcher on September 02, 2015, 11:18:23 PM
The sad thing is that this will be forgotten about in no time whereas if it was a child from a developed nation it would be a catastrophe.
Unfortunately this is v true. It's a f##ked up world we live in. Sadly that poor child is not the first and won't be the last either.
Absolutely terrible what is going on. That picture is worse than the one that showed the little African boy sittin with the vulture waitin on him to die.
These people need help and our governments are doing sweet fcuk all. Shame on them
Broke my heart tonight. I heard about it all day, but purposely tried to avoid it. Saw it a couple of hours ago. Really shook me to my core.
How on earth can this be happening in a so-called civilised world? I've had my blinkers on for far too long.
Quote from: An Watcher on September 02, 2015, 11:18:23 PM
The sad thing is that this will be forgotten about in no time whereas if it was a child from a developed nation it would be a catastrophe.
Absolutely
And this is only going to get worse - 3 months time, temperatures across Europe will be getting to below zero and these people will be freezing to death. When you consider what they go through to get here, it's hard to believe that we apparently have nothing better to offer them
For a start it would help if the war in Syria could be stopped.
In the absence of that it's time the EU and UN got their act together to put some plan together.
Cruel world. Bad times.
Our humanity gets shocked by pictures like that.
But our more basic instincts flip when we are told the only solution involves our money, food, time, effort or whatever.
The next time you hear a rant about 'welfare tourists', give the ranting person that photo and then clock them.
Why dont they put this picture up on times square and in London. Wasn't something pointless put up a while back on times square. This would make people take notice.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2015, 12:15:26 AM
For a start it would help if the war in Syria could be stopped.
In the absence of that it's time the EU and UN got their act together to put some plan together.
Its because of the likes of our governments that Syria's in the state its in, it was us westerns bred the likes of ISIS through the FSA with money and weapons, Now the dogs are of the leash they are hard t be put back on, Assads is no saint but what president is he was running a fairly secular state until he got in the way of our imperialist greed.
If the UN and EU stopped f**king other nations the majority of this shit wouldn't even have started.
Angela Merkel a right wing heartless **** by all accounts even reckons the Irish government aren't doing enough to help migrants.
I don't think an image has ever hit me in such a way before. Was near reduced to tears!!
Is there anything we can do, what charities can we give money to etc??
Quote from: MoChara on September 03, 2015, 09:37:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2015, 12:15:26 AM
For a start it would help if the war in Syria could be stopped.
In the absence of that it's time the EU and UN got their act together to put some plan together.
Its because of the likes of our governments that Syria's in the state its in, it was us westerns bred the likes of ISIS through the FSA with money and weapons, Now the dogs are of the leash they are hard t be put back on, Assads is no saint but what president is he was running a fairly secular state until he got in the way of our imperialist greed.
If the UN and EU stopped f**king other nations the majority of this shit wouldn't even have started.
Angela Merkel a right wing heartless **** by all accounts even reckons the Irish government aren't doing enough to help migrants. *people.
Changed that for you.
In a way I am glad this image has emerged. I saw much worse images last week of other Syrian and Palestinian children including that child washed up in an album posted on Facebook so in a way I'm maybe not as shocked as many others are. But it is good that people who are usually oblivious to current affairs being awakened by this. It might just serve to act as a catalyst to the pathetic inaction by our governments so far.
http://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/grosse-ile-canadas-island-famine-memorial/ (http://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/grosse-ile-canadas-island-famine-memorial/)
When something like this happens it is worth remembering our own tragedy.
In 1847 the shipping season in the St Lawrence opened as usual with the thaw in mid-May. The Syria was the first ship to arrive. She sailed from Liverpool on 24 March carrying 241 passengers and anchored at Grosse Ile on 15 May. Six days later, 202 passengers from the Syria were ill. The quarantine hospital on the island, built for 150 patients, could barely accommodate 200, and was already filled to capacity.
Douglas was astonished by the 'unprecedented state of illness and distress' on the ships; he had 'never contemplated the possibility of every vessel arriving with fever as they do now', all of them carrying passengers 'in the most wretched state of disease'. On 23 May, he reported between fifty and sixty deaths per day. By the end of the month, 900 people had died and a thousand more fever cases were on the island, housed in hastily erected sheds and tents. Douglas was resigned to the prospect that many more would fall sick and require treatment. But since 'I have not a bed to lay them on or a place to put them in', he was obliged to flout the quarantine law and confine all passengers on board the ships at anchor in the river. By 31 May, forty ships lay off Grosse Ile, with 12,500 passengers, old and young, healthy and sick, dying and dead, crammed into grossly overcrowded quarters, packed as human ballast in the holds of merchant vessels built to carry Canadian lumber to England.
Stephen de Vere from County Limerick, landlord, magistrate and social reformer, was no ordinary emigrant. He took passage on an emigrant ship to provide a first-hand report to the Colonial Office. His account of conditions on the ship which, he was assured, was 'more comfortable than many', is a funeral dirge:
Hundreds of poor people, men, women and children, of all ages from the drivelling idiot of ninety to the babe just born, huddled together, without light, without air, wallowing in filth, and breathing a fetid atmosphere, sick in body, dispirited in heart...the fevered patients lying between the sound in sleeping places so narrow, as almost to deny them a change of position...living without food or medicine except as administered by the hand of casual charity, dying without spiritual consolation and buried in the deep without the rites of the church.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 03, 2015, 09:49:07 AM
I don't think an image has ever hit me in such a way before. Was near reduced to tears!!
Is there anything we can do, what charities can we give money to etc??
If you search on Facebook Northern Ireland Calais Refugee Solidarity you'll see a group doing collections of stuff tents toiletries etc. in the North at any rate
Cheers MoChara
Given the amount of crap that has been spouted on this forum in the last few weeks it certainly puts moaning about TSG ,appeals to CCC, CHC, DRA etc into perspective.
The State, therefore, is the most flagrant, the most cynical, and the most complete negation of humanity. It shatters the universal solidarity of all men on the earth, and brings some of them into association only for the purpose of destroying, conquering, and enslaving all the rest. It protects its own citizens only; it recognizes human rights, humanity, civilization within its own confines alone. Since it recognizes no rights outside itself, it logically arrogates to itself the right to exercise the most ferocious inhumanity toward all foreign populations, which it can plunder, exterminate, or enslave at will." Mikhail Bakunin, September 1867
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/5-practical-ways-you-can-help-refugees-trying-to-find-safety-in-europe-10482902.html
Actually good link here even ya just wanna sign some online petitions
It's a devastating picture and selfishly the first thing that came into my head when I saw it was my own kids.
It's heartbreaking that this type of thing is being allowed to happen by the west when they are at least partially to blame for the situation in the first place.
I wish there was something that I could do, I just dont have a clue where to start.
There is some amount of evil in this world and our governments are instrumental..."The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
I have a young lad myself the same age and this picture has broke my f**king heart (as with all pics of familys in desperate situations) Even more so now seeing pictures published in the Gaurdian of him and his brother when they were alive smiling and laughing.
The picture would shake you. Then you start to realise that the various bombings and air strikes that we hear about in the news every other day give us similar outcomes, yet we're desensitised towards them.
Can anyone give a reasonable solution to the issue?
I honestly don't have a clue how you stop it.
Sick to the stomach looking at that picture, yet somehow I can't stop looking at it.
Like some have mentioned I just keep thinking of my own two little boys when looking at it.
I have a photo of my two-year-old sitting on a rock on the beach as my desktop wallpaper here in work. Easiest thing in the world to imagine him otherwise. So goddamn lucky...
Language is an important tool as well and feeds into the prejudices and xenophobia that seems to be becoming more prevalent. For instance Simon Coveney tweeted this morning:
In Luxembourg this morning for a Def council of Mins - discussing migrant crisis and EU response in the Med -
Surely to God they are refugees no? And it a human crisis not a migrant one
Quote from: laoislad on September 03, 2015, 11:11:37 AM
Sick to the stomach looking at that picture, yet somehow I can't stop looking at it.
Like some have mentioned I just keep thinking of my own two little boys when looking at it.
That's exactly what I thought too. Terrible for his family so lets hope it makes a positive difference.
Well said, Declan. Orwell nailed it. Newspeak doesn't have that word.
Quote from: Declan on September 03, 2015, 11:32:31 AM
Language is an important tool as well and feeds into the prejudices and xenophobia that seems to be becoming more prevalent. For instance Simon Coveney tweeted this morning:
In Luxembourg this morning for a Def council of Mins - discussing migrant crisis and EU response in the Med -
Surely to God they are refugees no? And it a human crisis not a migrant one
So true Declan, I have had many discussions about this over the years in terms of the ethics behind language and the use of language. With 24 hour information available there is a greater ethical onus on the purveyors of opinions to 'mind their language'. In your 'opinion' it is a human crisis and they are refugees, in ShiteHawks opinion this is a migrant crisis. The further right you go the lesser the problem. There is such a right wing drive worldwide which is exacerbating the worldwide crises and this is facilitated by the media. It sickens me that this is happening but I only talk the talk. give-her-dixie is walking the walk and heading out to support the one sin Calais with blankets and shelter. He is someone who deserves to be commended.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 03, 2015, 12:46:47 PM
It sickens me that this is happening but I only talk the talk. give-her-dixie is walking the walk and heading out to support the one sin Calais with blankets and shelter. He is someone who deserves to be commended.
Not for the first time either. I'm too selfish to contemplate a hundredth of what GHD does in these humanitarian crises, but is there anywhere online to donate a few pounds specifically to his mission?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 03, 2015, 11:00:05 AM
Can anyone give a reasonable solution to the issue?
I honestly don't have a clue how you stop it.
This is a very good question.
No such previous crisis has never been 'solved' to any remote degree of satisfaction, in the history of the planet. The UN and Human Rights Charter in particular, set out a noble ideal, but the UN is made up of States, and as Declan's post so elegantly demonstrates, each state will always look out for itself. Add to that the UN powers of veto and the extraordinary behaviour of some states, it is obvious that the UN isn't the solution.
I hate to deconstruct possible solutions, without offering anything at all by way of a suggestion, but where would you start?
UN - no good, all about self interest, abused by those vetos - Look at certain countries attitudes to UN Resolutions for example,
States - Anything involving Governments quickly becomes about self-interest and self interest only,
Religion - Probably a major catalyst for many of the causes - could be starting point if all of the Church leader sincerely got together and prioritised this above all other priorities, y'know, like they preach about looking after the poor and vulnerable. But let's face it, they are even more caught up in self interest than anyone else.
Is it possible that social media could be used as a force for good and that the masses might embarrass all of the above into meaningful action? Maybe.
https://twitter.com/unicefireland/status/639400340262121472 (https://twitter.com/unicefireland/status/639400340262121472)
Thanks, money sent.
We have bag and bags of baby clothes and clothes for young girls which are too small for our ones. Some of them have barely been worn if worn at all which is a disgrace in itself when you see how little others have. We don't know how lucky we are.
Are there any collection points in Mid-Ulster where we could leave this stuff to?
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on September 03, 2015, 02:28:51 PM
We have bag and bags of baby clothes and clothes for young girls which are too small for our ones. Some of them have barely been worn if worn at all which is a disgrace in itself when you see how little others have. We don't know how lucky we are.
Are there any collection points in Mid-Ulster where we could leave this stuff to?
Or in Belfast if anyone knows of somewhere?
I saw a page on facebook called 'Northern Ireland Calais Refugee Solidarity' that should have info of collection points.
There's a protest/vigil in solidarity with the asylum seekers today at 5pm in Guildhall Square, Derry. It won't achieve much and it's not convenient but after seeing that picture I'm going after work and hope there's a good turnout. Given what generations of Irish people before us went through you would think that we'd be shouting from the rooftops but the silence on my facebook feed is deafening. Cecil the lion got more publicity!! Says a lot about the society we live in.
For what its worth
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105991 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105991)
Many before have posted my exact feelings on this terrible picture. I am sickened and saddened by many of my fellow countrymen who would still say "not my problem". It is all our problems. What can we do though. If our government asked me to help house a child from Syria I would do it, but they wont ask. I feel helpless to help. My greatest disgust is for Fine Gael on this. I always though we Irish were special, we had suffered brutality, famine, persecution, mass emigration etc. In poorer times people would always helped others. Now it seems in the fastest growing economy in Europe we will hide behind the official line from Europe. We should abandon this failed disgusting & greedy European project and do what we can to help as many as we can. If Kenny had even one ball he would tell our naval ship to redirect to an Irish port with the next refugees they pick up until we have 10, 000 here. What would america be like today if the Irish on Coffin ships were turned away. It is really maddening.
One final point, anyone using the term "migrant" should get a kick in the nuts. These are in the vast majority Refugees fleeing a terrible warzone.
Quote from: andoireabu on September 03, 2015, 03:29:21 PM
I saw a page on facebook called 'Northern Ireland Calais Refugee Solidarity' that should have info of collection points.
Saw that myself and while not wanting to undermine what the people in Calais are going through I would prefer if my money could somehow reach the people crossing the Med.
The sad reality is that poor men, women and children are paying a small fortune of whatever savings they have to board these makeshift vessels.
They could start with stopping these traffickers but again how do you you police thousands of miles of coastline!
Is the role of the Irish Navy to intercept boats or just respond to distress signals??
The might of the British Navy with their warships lying dormant. Shame on Cameron!
Heart breaking situation!!
Totally agree. Ireland should be seen to buck the trend and take these people in. Don't forget approx. 8 million people use to live on this island.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 03, 2015, 03:54:51 PM
Many before have posted my exact feelings on this terrible picture. I am sickened and saddened by many of my fellow countrymen who would still say "not my problem". It is all our problems. What can we do though. If our government asked me to help house a child from Syria I would do it, but they wont ask. I feel helpless to help. My greatest disgust is for Fine Gael on this. I always though we Irish were special, we had suffered brutality, famine, persecution, mass emigration etc. In poorer times people would always helped others. Now it seems in the fastest growing economy in Europe we will hide behind the official line from Europe. We should abandon this failed disgusting & greedy European project and do what we can to help as many as we can. If Kenny had even one ball he would tell our naval ship to redirect to an Irish port with the next refugees they pick up until we have 10, 000 here. What would america be like today if the Irish on Coffin ships were turned away. It is really maddening.
One final point, anyone using the term "migrant" should get a kick in the nuts. These are in the vast majority Refugees fleeing a terrible warzone.
The USA did turn away coffin ships. But that is neither here nor there, I agree with the vast majority of your post.
But rather than scoring points against any party, and thus making it political, and politics is a major part of all of these problems in the first place, we should be petition all parties and giving them an incorruptible, unambiguous message that we want them ALL to work on our behalves to help those children.
Quote from: muppet on September 03, 2015, 04:18:48 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 03, 2015, 03:54:51 PM
Many before have posted my exact feelings on this terrible picture. I am sickened and saddened by many of my fellow countrymen who would still say "not my problem". It is all our problems. What can we do though. If our government asked me to help house a child from Syria I would do it, but they wont ask. I feel helpless to help. My greatest disgust is for Fine Gael on this. I always though we Irish were special, we had suffered brutality, famine, persecution, mass emigration etc. In poorer times people would always helped others. Now it seems in the fastest growing economy in Europe we will hide behind the official line from Europe. We should abandon this failed disgusting & greedy European project and do what we can to help as many as we can. If Kenny had even one ball he would tell our naval ship to redirect to an Irish port with the next refugees they pick up until we have 10, 000 here. What would america be like today if the Irish on Coffin ships were turned away. It is really maddening.
One final point, anyone using the term "migrant" should get a kick in the nuts. These are in the vast majority Refugees fleeing a terrible warzone.
The USA did turn away coffin ships. But that is neither here nor there, I agree with the vast majority of your post.
But rather than scoring points against any party, and thus making it political, and politics is a major part of all of these problems in the first place, we should be petition all parties and giving them an incorruptible, unambiguous message that we want them ALL to work on our behalves to help those children.
Its not about being party political. The government of this country is Fine Gaels with a small smattering of Labour. It is them that we need to tell. You can tell the other parties as well, no issue with that, but that will get nothing done. We have already seen the FG inaction for Gaza so I expect more of the same. The point is our leader is a skivy for the real leaders in Europe as sad as that is. If he had an ounce of courage he would do what I said with our own ships and do what is right - simple as that.
But isn't Angela Merkel calling for us to do more, so if he's not listening to her, then it's more than that.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 03, 2015, 04:27:11 PM
But isn't Angela Merkel calling for us to do more, so if he's not listening to her, then it's more than that.
Maybe that is so. Whatever way you look at it our government can make a decision to do the right thing with or without German permission. Why don't they given our own history?
Probably naive but would a solution be to take them in on a 2 or 3 year visa. Let a coalition of the governments who caused this crisis go in and remove ISIS and Assad and set up a proper government in Syria, rather than this policy of containment. When the problem is solved they can go back to Syria. Simplistic but would possibly go some way to satisfy the Syrians as refugees and the Europeans that simply don't want any more immigration.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 03, 2015, 04:50:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 03, 2015, 04:27:11 PM
But isn't Angela Merkel calling for us to do more, so if he's not listening to her, then it's more than that.
Maybe that is so. Whatever way you look at it our government can make a decision to do the right thing with or without German permission. Why don't they given our own history?
Yeah, I think we can take more than 600 or whatever it is that we have apparently taken. These poor people are not economic migrants, they are families trying to give themselves a chance at life. It's horrific really.
(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11923222_10153299740534064_139959908134786061_n.jpg?oh=98a078b99e3e54dc3794f52b194c244d&oe=56613D98)
https://uplift.ie/refugee-crisis/ (https://uplift.ie/refugee-crisis/)
Quote from: haveaharp on September 03, 2015, 04:51:13 PM
Probably naive but would a solution be to take them in on a 2 or 3 year visa. Let a coalition of the governments who caused this crisis go in and remove ISIS and Assad and set up a proper government in Syria, rather than this policy of containment. When the problem is solved they can go back to Syria. Simplistic but would possibly go some way to satisfy the Syrians as refugees and the Europeans that simply don't want any more immigration.
Governments are no more willing to have their armies die fighting in Syria than they are to take refugees and some of the governments stilling the pot in Syria e.g. Russia, have not taken refugees. In any case the record of western intervention isn't great, a lot of these boat people are from Afghanistan or Iraq.
The whole thing is complex. Ireland will takes its share and have said so, not every other country will. But even if some scheme is devised, will there be any real mechanism to ensure that people taken in by one country stay there and don't all go to some other place?
While it's a sad sight, I take it all with a pinch of salt. I'm sure similar things happen week in week out. I think it's all a ploy to go into Syria, Libya, Turkey etc, and sort out these bad IS boyos, and while they're at it, blow the shite out of the place, set up camp, steal their oil... You know, the usual.
I've seen photos and I guarantee a lot of them are faked. Don't underestimate the mass medias role in brainwashing the public, in order to gain support for more wars.
These people need taken care of, they need help now, f**k politics. simply put countries need to do everything they can to save human lives and we can all worry what to do with them after they are safe, fed and have a roof over their heads.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 03, 2015, 06:45:02 PM
While it's a sad sight, I take it all with a pinch of salt. I'm sure similar things happen week in week out. I think it's all a ploy to go into Syria, Libya, Turkey etc, and sort out these bad IS boyos, and while they're at it, blow the shite out of the place, set up camp, steal their oil... You know, the usual.
I've seen photos and I guarantee a lot of them are faked. Don't underestimate the mass medias role in brainwashing the public, in order to gain support for more wars.
Not sure who your talking about, but no country in their right mind would fancy taking on would of the most formidable militaries in the NATO
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2015, 06:52:56 PM
These people need taken care of, they need help now, f**k politics. simply put countries need to do everything they can to save human lives and we can all worry what to do with them after they are safe, fed and have a roof over their heads.
Exactly.
I have to admit I cried seeing the photo, knowing I would do so I tried to avoid it all day. i had a situation a couple of years ago (thankfully resolved) where I didn't know whether I'd be seeing our three year old the next morning or not. So I don't have a lot of rubber left on the tyre emotionally when I see an image of a child like that.
Moving beyond my own visceral reaction it seems to me that this past decade and a half there has been a concentrated move on behalf of vested interests across the world to destroy the concept of solidarity within and between all nations. Look at all the catastrophes of the 20th century and compare and contrast the reactions of societies then and now.
The Great War began a concentrated effort (failing in the end) to put in an international structure to prevent war, plus the success of the Suffragette movement and extension of the voting franchise. The Great Depression begat the New Deal in America, a remarkable flowering of socialised govermental reform. World war 2, awful as it was, gave us the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Marshall Plan, an incredibly far sighted and generous response to a fractured world. Post WW2 also gave us the advent of the Welfare State. The 60s gave us Civil rights and Female liberation.
And then it all stops. Activist government becomes the demon of the right wing. Corporations figured out that regulation is bad for business (ie profits). The democratic system becomes hollowed out. And what happens? Living standards begin to decline until we reach a stage where we are now when the inequality gap is comparable to the Gilded age of the 1890s and early 20th century. We marched in millions against a war in 2003 before it even started and were completely ignored. A financial hurricane hits, caused by this shift in policy and instead of a generous far sighted response, we are given endless austerity, and a concerted effort to pit various sections of society against each other.
Now, we are reduced to snarling at refugees, intent on keeping our own dog, austerity battered as he is, in our own manger. We are constantly told how we live in a globalised world and yet we have never been further away from the levers of power. David Cameron, a man who has lost a child himself, said after seeing the photo, that the UK could and would not take any more migrants. He is totally in hock to his own electorate, who are totally in hock to a financial industrial complex who are happy as long as chaos reigns, the better to shave milliseconds and millions off share transactions.
Syria must be sorted out - it is the greatest humanitarian crisis since World War 2 but it requires leaders of moral courage to do so. David Cameron has no soul to offer. Enda Kenny, though he has done things i admire, seems to be the same. If you want my opinion, a UN force similar to the KFor Nato expedition (but on much larger scale) must go into action, create large safe areas under no fly zones, whilst negotiating with Assad a transition to a National Unity government. If that means giving him an amnesty, than needs must. And if Western soldiers, even our soldiers, are lost in this effort, then it is a price the West has to pay. The Arab Spring was based on a mirage we marketed to these societies - it is time to back up the commercials. Europe has been a beacon of democracy and tolerance for over 50 years - why else would these people want to come here??? We have sold them the image of ourselves and we despise them for wanting it.
Until we demand more of our politicians, until we demand more of ourselves, until we realise that markets are a tyranny and a shell game where speculators cannot lose, and until we realise that the fear of the migrant and the other is a construct merely to have more walls built, more cheap labour exploited, more cultures choked to make them safe export markets, we will look at these pictures again and again. I pray for that boy and his family but we need to connect the dots - that this is a result of our Western democracies being eaten from the inside out by right wing economics for nothing more than corporate profit. Just over 2,500 years ago the first democracy began in Athens and despite it's subsequent failure, it bloomed again and again and again, all over the world, in various guises. We need to renew it as a generation, we need to replace our straw men with leaders and use the only thing we have going for us - the power open to everyone to communicate their ideas.
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2015, 06:52:56 PM
These people need taken care of, they need help now, f**k politics. simply put countries need to do everything they can to save human lives and we can all worry what to do with them after they are safe, fed and have a roof over their heads.
Don't normally agree with stew but he's spot on here
Quote from: Hereiam on September 02, 2015, 11:44:27 PM
Absolutely terrible what is going on. That picture is worse than the one that showed the little African boy sittin with the vulture waitin on him to die.
These people need help and our governments are doing sweet fcuk all. Shame on them
Considering our governments created this problem their hardly going to be part of the solution anytime soon.
Good post Easytiger. Heard about this campaign
http://www.newstalk.com/Co-Clare-man-starting-campaign-for-Irish-families-to-foster-or-adopt-refugee-children (http://www.newstalk.com/Co-Clare-man-starting-campaign-for-Irish-families-to-foster-or-adopt-refugee-children)
Terrific post easytiger.
https://twitter.com/tobyharnden/status/639558284421300224 (https://twitter.com/tobyharnden/status/639558284421300224)
Charming tweet from a UKIP candidate
Quality post, ET.
easytiger95, I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 03, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2015, 06:52:56 PM
These people need taken care of, they need help now, f**k politics. simply put countries need to do everything they can to save human lives and we can all worry what to do with them after they are safe, fed and have a roof over their heads.
Don't normally agree with stew but he's spot on here
well said Stew and easytiger, 100%
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Quote from: easytiger95 on September 03, 2015, 08:02:23 PM
I have to admit I cried seeing the photo, knowing I would do so I tried to avoid it all day. i had a situation a couple of years ago (thankfully resolved) where I didn't know whether I'd be seeing our three year old the next morning or not. So I don't have a lot of rubber left on the tyre emotionally when I see an image of a child like that.
Moving beyond my own visceral reaction it seems to me that this past decade and a half there has been a concentrated move on behalf of vested interests across the world to destroy the concept of solidarity within and between all nations. Look at all the catastrophes of the 20th century and compare and contrast the reactions of societies then and now.
The Great War began a concentrated effort (failing in the end) to put in an international structure to prevent war, plus the success of the Suffragette movement and extension of the voting franchise. The Great Depression begat the New Deal in America, a remarkable flowering of socialised govermental reform. World war 2, awful as it was, gave us the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Marshall Plan, an incredibly far sighted and generous response to a fractured world. Post WW2 also gave us the advent of the Welfare State. The 60s gave us Civil rights and Female liberation.
And then it all stops. Activist government becomes the demon of the right wing. Corporations figured out that regulation is bad for business (ie profits). The democratic system becomes hollowed out. And what happens? Living standards begin to decline until we reach a stage where we are now when the inequality gap is comparable to the Gilded age of the 1890s and early 20th century. We marched in millions against a war in 2003 before it even started and were completely ignored. A financial hurricane hits, caused by this shift in policy and instead of a generous far sighted response, we are given endless austerity, and a concerted effort to pit various sections of society against each other.
Now, we are reduced to snarling at refugees, intent on keeping our own dog, austerity battered as he is, in our own manger. We are constantly told how we live in a globalised world and yet we have never been further away from the levers of power. David Cameron, a man who has lost a child himself, said after seeing the photo, that the UK could and would not take any more migrants. He is totally in hock to his own electorate, who are totally in hock to a financial industrial complex who are happy as long as chaos reigns, the better to shave milliseconds and millions off share transactions.
Syria must be sorted out - it is the greatest humanitarian crisis since World War 2 but it requires leaders of moral courage to do so. David Cameron has no soul to offer. Enda Kenny, though he has done things i admire, seems to be the same. If you want my opinion, a UN force similar to the KFor Nato expedition (but on much larger scale) must go into action, create large safe areas under no fly zones, whilst negotiating with Assad a transition to a National Unity government. If that means giving him an amnesty, than needs must. And if Western soldiers, even our soldiers, are lost in this effort, then it is a price the West has to pay. The Arab Spring was based on a mirage we marketed to these societies - it is time to back up the commercials. Europe has been a beacon of democracy and tolerance for over 50 years - why else would these people want to come here??? We have sold them the image of ourselves and we despise them for wanting it.
Until we demand more of our politicians, until we demand more of ourselves, until we realise that markets are a tyranny and a shell game where speculators cannot lose, and until we realise that the fear of the migrant and the other is a construct merely to have more walls built, more cheap labour exploited, more cultures choked to make them safe export markets, we will look at these pictures again and again. I pray for that boy and his family but we need to connect the dots - that this is a result of our Western democracies being eaten from the inside out by right wing economics for nothing more than corporate profit. Just over 2,500 years ago the first democracy began in Athens and despite it's subsequent failure, it bloomed again and again and again, all over the world, in various guises. We need to renew it as a generation, we need to replace our straw men with leaders and use the only thing we have going for us - the power open to everyone to communicate their ideas.
Very well written. 100% agreement with you.
Quote from: Declan on September 03, 2015, 10:07:36 PM
Good post Easytiger. Heard about this campaign
http://www.newstalk.com/Co-Clare-man-starting-campaign-for-Irish-families-to-foster-or-adopt-refugee-children (http://www.newstalk.com/Co-Clare-man-starting-campaign-for-Irish-families-to-foster-or-adopt-refugee-children)
This is a noble idea, and I am glad it is free (afaics) from a political agenda.
However, this is where an image can mislead. The picture has had an amazing wordlwide reaction, with even right wing Tories backpedalling on immigration.
But it is about more than children.
Those children have families and while couples might feel they can offer to take in a child in a crisis, would the family of that child be willing to give him/her up? Would the offer of fostering be extended to a whole family, or is it really subconciously an offer to the child in the image?
Great post easytiger.
Seems to be a lot of heat on the UK and Ireland the past few days, but why are these people trying to get to Europe and not instead trying to get to the like of Jordan or Saudi Arabia which are close and stable?
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 04, 2015, 01:29:47 PM
Seems to be a lot of heat on the UK and Ireland the past few days, but why are these people trying to get to Europe and not instead trying to get to the like of Jordan or Saudi Arabia which are close and stable?
Jordan have taken in over 600,000
QuoteSeems to be a lot of heat on the UK and Ireland the past few days, but why are these people trying to get to Europe and not instead trying to get to the like of Jordan or Saudi Arabia which are close and stable?
Who Hosts the World's Refugees?
Pakistan continues to host the largest number of refugees worldwide at 1.6 million refugees, virtually all of which are from Afghanistan.
Lebanon has become the Second Largest Refugee Hosting Country hosting over 1.1 million refugees, the majority of whom have fled the conflict in Syria. As of March 2015, 1 in 4 persons in Lebanon is displaced from Syria.
The Islamic Republic of Iran is the 3rd largest refugee hosting country with a total of 982,100 Refugees, the majority of which hail from Afghanistan and Iraq.
In 2014, Developing Countries hosted 86% of the world's refugees.
http://www.unhcr.ie/about-unhcr/facts-and-figures-about-refugees (http://www.unhcr.ie/about-unhcr/facts-and-figures-about-refugees)
Quote from: nrico2006 on September 04, 2015, 01:29:47 PM
Seems to be a lot of heat on the UK and Ireland the past few days, but why are these people trying to get to Europe and not instead trying to get to the like of Jordan or Saudi Arabia which are close and stable?
One of the main reasons, is that its virtually impossible for refugees to be granted visas or ever attain citizenship in these countries. Saudi, UAE, Jordan Kuwait etc all have extremely tight emigration laws. The student population of these countries are currently putting pressure on their respective governments, mainly via social media to do more regarding taking on refugees
Quote from: muppet on September 03, 2015, 10:15:38 AM
http://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/grosse-ile-canadas-island-famine-memorial/ (http://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/grosse-ile-canadas-island-famine-memorial/)
When something like this happens it is worth remembering our own tragedy.
In 1847 the shipping season in the St Lawrence opened as usual with the thaw in mid-May. The Syria was the first ship to arrive. She sailed from Liverpool on 24 March carrying 241 passengers and anchored at Grosse Ile on 15 May. Six days later, 202 passengers from the Syria were ill. The quarantine hospital on the island, built for 150 patients, could barely accommodate 200, and was already filled to capacity.
Douglas was astonished by the 'unprecedented state of illness and distress' on the ships; he had 'never contemplated the possibility of every vessel arriving with fever as they do now', all of them carrying passengers 'in the most wretched state of disease'. On 23 May, he reported between fifty and sixty deaths per day. By the end of the month, 900 people had died and a thousand more fever cases were on the island, housed in hastily erected sheds and tents. Douglas was resigned to the prospect that many more would fall sick and require treatment. But since 'I have not a bed to lay them on or a place to put them in', he was obliged to flout the quarantine law and confine all passengers on board the ships at anchor in the river. By 31 May, forty ships lay off Grosse Ile, with 12,500 passengers, old and young, healthy and sick, dying and dead, crammed into grossly overcrowded quarters, packed as human ballast in the holds of merchant vessels built to carry Canadian lumber to England.
Stephen de Vere from County Limerick, landlord, magistrate and social reformer, was no ordinary emigrant. He took passage on an emigrant ship to provide a first-hand report to the Colonial Office. His account of conditions on the ship which, he was assured, was 'more comfortable than many', is a funeral dirge:
Hundreds of poor people, men, women and children, of all ages from the drivelling idiot of ninety to the babe just born, huddled together, without light, without air, wallowing in filth, and breathing a fetid atmosphere, sick in body, dispirited in heart...the fevered patients lying between the sound in sleeping places so narrow, as almost to deny them a change of position...living without food or medicine except as administered by the hand of casual charity, dying without spiritual consolation and buried in the deep without the rites of the church.
Thanks Muppet for this story. I got it weaved into this story in todays Belfast Telegraph
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/i-cant-sit-and-do-nothing-tyrone-lorry-driver-on-calais-mercy-mission-31501044.html
Nice one. I thought the name of the ship was quite a co-incidence.
Quote from: muppet on September 04, 2015, 12:33:15 PM
Quote from: Declan on September 03, 2015, 10:07:36 PM
Good post Easytiger. Heard about this campaign
http://www.newstalk.com/Co-Clare-man-starting-campaign-for-Irish-families-to-foster-or-adopt-refugee-children (http://www.newstalk.com/Co-Clare-man-starting-campaign-for-Irish-families-to-foster-or-adopt-refugee-children)
This is a noble idea, and I am glad it is free (afaics) from a political agenda.
However, this is where an image can mislead. The picture has had an amazing wordlwide reaction, with even right wing Tories backpedalling on immigration.
But it is about more than children.
Those children have families and while couples might feel they can offer to take in a child in a crisis, would the family of that child be willing to give him/her up? Would the offer of fostering be extended to a whole family, or is it really subconciously an offer to the child in the image?
Fairly sure I read somewhere that Syria doesn't allow international adoption. Something to do with sharia law. Not sure if those rules would apply presently. Fair play to the fella from Clare.
For those in Tyrone-----------If you are in and around Greencastle please take a moment to read and share.
SYRIA CRISIS APPEAL
THE WORST HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN A GENERATION
Cork Calais Refugee Solidarity
An aid lorry bringing much needed aid to Syrian refugees will leave Newry on Saturday 12th September. We are appealing for donations of:
• Sleeping bags and blankets
• Towels
• Tents, especially 4 man +
• Heavy duty rubbish bags
• Torches, candles, batteries
• Medicines, first aid kits
• Bicycle puncture repair kits and tools
• Toiletries (toothpaste, toothbrushes, shower gel, razors, toilet rolls, tissues)
• Winter clothing for men, women and children
• Hats, scarves, coats, gloves
This is a simple way to show solidarity with people who are suffering enormously. Now is a great opportunity to make use of any unwanted clothing etc. Alternatively, add a few inexpensive toiletries to your weekly shop - all donations will make a real difference to these people.
Donations can be left at Green Elves Playgroup (Mon – Fri, 9am – 12)
What about the poor people of Gazza. They had nowhere to run.