Right lads think its time we got this one up and running.
anyone care to open with opinions on likely line-ups of the teams, injury news, current form of players etc etc.
From a Down perspective i have to say i hate being drawn against Cavan so often in that they can be very much like ourselves and blow hot or cold on any given sunday. I feel that both teams (maybe im wrong here) could have potentially done so much more damage if they were drawn in opposite sides of the draw. I feel that no-one really likes to play Down or Cavan in championship because of the unpredictable nature of each team.
As a Down man im very worried about Lyngs re-emergence from injury and at full tilt and fit too pulling the strings in the forward line.
Cavan defence can definitley be tested by our forwards but our defence would need to be shit-hot disciplined to not concede a bagful of frees for Lyng or Pierson to convert.
In brief, either set of forwards have the winning of the game if their respective midfields and half backs and forwards are doing the business at kickouts and break ball situations.
On the basis of what I've seen so far, Cavan are in a hell of a lot of bother in this regard. You'd hope the Roscommon game will lead to some changes in lineup and tactics etc. so that we can at least make this a close match. We should manage that at least given that we're at home and Down have had a very poor league and confidence can't be high udner Ross Carr at the moment.
Well as I see it there are two possible outcomes....
1. Cavan have a plan b which we have not seen in the league to date. This plan involves breaking ball in the middle and attaking the breaks and getting a big target man in the FF line. If this is the case I think we will give Down a tough game and could potentially win (although I'd have my money on Down).
2. We don't change anything much from the league. If we go that road I can't possibly see how we would beat Down.
Hopefully it will be a good game of tough championship football anyhow as last yrs game was a let down given that it was shown on TV too.
OR
The Cavan supporters could get behind a team who went through their group unbeaten, won promotion to division two, and then in their first EVER game in the new Croker only lost by five points despite a brutal injury list and kicking 16 wides.
Nah, that will never happen!
Better to whinge the whole year about how crap they are and how there's no hope for them. If they win, then you can cry that Down were shite and we'll lose the next one. If they lose, sure you said it all along...
I for one am not going to run a team who are making a massive effort and who have got some brilliant results into the ground. If they lose to Down, it won't have been for want of effort - that's good enough for me.
Quote from: Hollow Man on April 26, 2007, 01:51:19 PM
OR
The Cavan supporters could get behind a team who went through their group unbeaten, won promotion to division two, and then in their first EVER game in the new Croker only lost by five points despite a brutal injury list and kicking 16 wides.
Nah, that will never happen!
Better to whinge the whole year about how crap they are and how there's no hope for them. If they win, then you can cry that Down were shite and we'll lose the next one. If they lose, sure you said it all along...
I for one am not going to run a team who are making a massive effort and who have got some brilliant results into the ground. If they lose to Down, it won't have been for want of effort - that's good enough for me.
Hollowman, What sort of an idiot are you. All I gave was an honest opinion on how I see the game going. Doesn't matter what the team are like I'll be at the match supporting them all the way. like I have for over 25 years. Seems to me you are extremely paranoid and tend to read everyone elses post in some sort of negative slant. Is your real name McElhennon - he seemed to have a very low opinion of the Cavan supporters as do you. Are we not allowed to express opinions anymore. Would you prefer I said that Cavan are one of the top 6 in the country and will blow Down away?? Maybe you should stick to the hoganstand board until you develop some manners.
QuoteWould you prefer I said that Cavan are one of the top 6 in the country and will blow Down away??
No, I'd prefer you to give the team a chance and not write them off. They're doing alright considering the low base they've come from. This sort of negativity creeps in - it's similar to Meath in '01 when they hammered Kerry, the whole county thought they'd win it and the players bought it.
A lot of Cavan supporters do nothing but complain - nothing is good enough, not even seven unbeaten matches in their group. Many have Cavan written off already - this creeps in too.
Myles, would you agree that supporters going around grumbling and predicting the team's impending doom because they haven't reached their exalted level of expectancy contributes to poor results on the big day?
Before the league, would you have been happy with an unbeaten run through the group, and then a 5 point defeat when we were missing four or five important players?
I'm actually happier than I was before last Saturday. We now know Hannon is our first choice full back, and that Gallagher can't cut it. We also know that Brennan's not an inter county midfielder, and that Lyng is flying. While we were finding out all of this, getting a competitive match and priceless Croker experience, Down were resting or playing club games.
Oh yeah, you can't come any higher than first in a league group either.
Thank you for calling me an idiot. Now please excuse me while
I learn manners...
Quote from: Hollow Man on April 26, 2007, 01:51:19 PM
ORI for one am not going to run a team who are making a massive effort and who have got some brilliant results into the ground. If they lose to Down, it won't have been for want of effort - that's good enough for me.
Or some common sense.
Nobody denies the guys are putting in an effort. So is practically every county team. It's a given in this day and age. This is what they sign up for when they get on the panel, it's what supporters expect when they travel and support etc. I'm not going to write them a poem in tribute for it.
If 'brilliant' results include scraping by the likes of Antrim, Wicklow, Waterford and escaping with a draw against Wexford etc. then you have a strange idea of brilliant results. My idea of brilliant results would be those achieved by Donegal. Cavan have done okay under a new management, carrying some injuries and experimenting, but okay is all. With the playing resources and facilities we have we can't we aim a little higher than mere respectability in Division 2B and being somehow content with a defeat at Croker to a middle ranking side that could easily have been 10 and not just 5 points?
I admire your positivity on one hand but you need to be realistic. You slagged me and myles off for being down on the team but your rose-tinted view of the matter is worse, and thinking that very basic achievements are 'brilliant' isn't exactly raising the bar ambitions wise to help the team progress is it? The truth lies in between. We're doing ok from a very low starting point but there's some glaring steps need taking to help us be even better and we shoudn't stop and clap ourselves on the back until we've left no stone unturned to get the last drop out of the team. We've yet to do this.
We really have slipped along way if our supporters are telling each other we should be happy just because the team is putting in the effort. For Jasus sake. That's the least they should do.
So Hollowman...
Who's the boss Keoghan or Grimley?
How is the weapon of mass destruction (Dermot McCabe) getting on these days ?
Sorry to butt in lads but ive always looked upon the Cavan team this last few years as serious underachievers. Like ourselves in Down the young talent is definitely there along with a few older heads, its god awful that ye have to be satisfied because of players willingness to be competitive at best or put in an effort, or just be ok. For me youse have had a decent enough league campaign without really moving up a gear or two, moving nicely along, but its now time youse rattled a few cages in Ulster Championship and shut those orange and (to a lesser extent) red& white eejits up.
Quote from: downredblack on April 26, 2007, 02:52:25 PM
How is the weapon of mass destruction (Dermot McCabe) getting on these days ?
Injury free but not fit for 70 minutes if Croker was anything to go by, and desperately in need of support in the middle of the field if he's to concentrate on his own game and not get bossed about.
Good post Cavanmaniac, would agree with that although hollow has a point but is going overboard
QuoteWith the playing resources and facilities we have
We have no more resources or facilities than most counties. In fact, I'd say with our 40 clubs we definitely have less than most
This is a bit of a myth, the idea that we have great resources, history etc - we're whipping boys, that's what we have been since the 60's unfortunately and I think we as Cavan supporters need to learn this and lower our expectations
I think what Hollow is saying is that with our record in recent years, we should be delighted not downbeat! Much as it pains me but it's true
There are 46 football clubs in Down, so we are pretty well in line with Cavan. The record of both counties are also fairly similar over recent years in terms of underachievement. Head to head is also tight. We stumbled to a narrow win last year, although Cavan should have beaten us on their second half display. The first game in 2004 was a draw, and we should have won the replay comfortably but ending up losing to a couple of dodgy late goals. In 2001, we lost by a point to Cavan at Casement and should at least have got a draw. There's not a huge amount of confidence in either camp, and I certainly would not rule out another draw this time round. Hopefully, the new Marshes would be available for any replay.
Mourne River, think you have the blinkers on about '01, you may have been close on the scoreboard but your goal led a charmed life at times, McCabe was absolutely outstanding all day, great fielding, great sideline point, set up goal for Jason. We should have won by 6/7 points that day.That was a good Cavan team who pushed Tyrone mighty hard in the final that year. We're both pretty close now and it'll be another close one in May.
QuoteThe record of both counties are also fairly similar over recent years in terms of underachievement.
Well you have won two senior All Irelands, two minor All Irelands and reached one (?) All Ireland Under 21 final and won a few Ulster clubs in the last 16 years.
We've won one Ulster senior title, one Ulster Under 21 title, no minor and no club.
Trim Blue is quite right to say that Cavan were the better side overall at Casement in 2001, but Down finished strongly, missed late chances and at the very least would have got the draw if Mickey Linden had not gone off injured with about ten minutes left. By the same token, Down were the better side at Breffni in the 2004 replay by some distance but it was Cavan who finished the stronger and got the breaks and the result.
It's beyond doubt that the records of Down and Cavan at senior level over the last decade are fairly similar, and the Bottom Brick is stretching things by goings back to the early 1990s. Although Down have been promising at under age and colleges level, that form has yet to transfer to the senior team. Bottom Brick may think that Down have won `a few' Ulster club titles over the last 16 years, but sadly we had not managed a single success in that time. Our last provincial winner was Burren in 1988. I think Cavan have never won a senior Ulster club title, and the evidence is that standards within both counties at club level over the last decade are fairly ordinary. Perhaps we will all get a pleasant surprise at Breffni on May 13, so we live in hope.
Surprised to hear Down haven't won Ulster club since then... My bad
Anyway, since '99 Down have won two All Ireland minor titles and reached an Under 21 All Ireland final.
We haven't even got out out of Ulster in either grade.
In fact, we have only got out of Ulster in Under 21 OR minor grade three times in 33 years!! That's the 1974 minors, the 1988 Under 21's and the 1996 Under 21's. How pathetic is that?
In the same time frame, we've won one Ulster SFC, no Ulster club, no MacRory and no league title of any description! In the qualifier years, we have never even reached a quarter final. This is one of the worst records of any county in Ireland, much worse than Down, Monaghan, and on a par with Fermanagh.
It would be a similar record to Clare or Westmeath footballers to be honest.
In light of all of this, I would contend that we've had a FANTASTIC season so far. Unfortunately, these are the facts.
Neither Down nor Cavan have reached a quarter final since the open draw was introduced in 2001, which is a poor record, but Bottom Brick's point about the decline of Cavan football over almost four decades cannot be disputed. It is a county where Gaelic football is by far the dominant sport, and where soccer and rugby, never mind hurling, have a very low profile. With Cavan's tradition at all Ireland level, a single senior Ulster title since 1969 is astonishing. The outbreak of the troubles had a negative impact on all the northern counties, but it is difficult to understand why Cavan have continued to struggle for so long. Perhaps the absence of St Pat's of Cavan town from the MacRory Cup is a factor, and Cavan will definitely have to overhaul their underage structures generally. When Down won the All Ireland minor in 2005, the best team we met in the competition was Cavan. The first game was a draw and we scraped through the replay by a point. We went on to win the AI semi by eight points and the final by ten. Cavan hammered our minors in the preliminary round last year, so there must be some hope out there for them. However, we don't want their revival to start on Sunday week.
Any word on tickets for this match? I assume it will be all ticket.
QuoteAny word on tickets for this match? I assume it will be all ticket.
Is it not in Breffni Park? Why on earth would you have tickets for a game of little consequence in a stadium that holds 30000?
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2007, 05:52:56 PM
QuoteAny word on tickets for this match? I assume it will be all ticket.
Is it not in Breffni Park? Why on earth would you have tickets for a game of little consequence in a stadium that holds 30000?
little consequence? ???
Quotelittle consequence
Little consequence to the destination of the Ulster championship, at least according to the bookies and most of the posters on this thread!
Hopefully it will be well attended anyhow, but Breffni is a fine ground now and tickets should not be needed for the attendance.
i can see the winner of Cavan/Down reaching an Ulster Final,Monaghan are overhyped in my opinion,id be more than confident of a full strength Cavan side beating them.,and Derry will most likely be without Paddy Bradley for a semi final if they manage to beat Antrim.
This side of the draw is very open.
What position has Coulter been playing in the league and is he likely to go in FF against us. I'd imagine he would be likely to spend some part of the game in that area.
There's a pretty lively debate in Down as to Benny's most effective position. He is a natural full forward, and played there for most of the league campaign, but we were seldom able to provide him with a proper supply. Some people think he should be brought out to the half forward line or maybe even midfield. However, if the Cavan full back line is as ordinary as it reportedly looked against Roscommon at Croke Park, perhaps Benny should stay put. It would be good to get some Cavan views on the Breffni defence. Down have struggled at the back for a long time, and things are unlikely to be any different for us this summer.
If I recall correctly the Cavan defence lined out like so last year:
Padraic Reilly, Micheal Hannon, Keith Fannin, Martin Cahill, Anthony Gaynor, Paul Brady
I'd imagine (well in my opinion too) this would be the starting defence come May 12
Martin Cahill, Micheal Hannon, Keith Fannin, Anthony Forde, Eamon Reilly, Paul Brady
My club mates Anthony Gaynor and Padraic O'Reilly are both absent from the panel this year. Anthony Forde was suspended last year from a league game against Sligo. He has started the last 7 games at full-back but looks set to resume a wing-half back role which suits him better.
It looks like Benny will renewing his battle with Micheal Hannon athis year. Hannon is our best defender IMO, but like last year will struggle at times with Coulter's strength.
What sort of position is Micheal Walsh playing with Down these days. He destroyed us last year in his roaming forward role.
It will be interesting what team Carr/Kane put out tomorrow for the opening of he Saval field. It has to be close as possible to their championship team since this is their last game before Cavan. Cant see many changes from what they put out during the league but you could see a return for Brendan Grant with Sexton and Murtagh as wing half backs. Benny at No. 12 might also be an option but then who goes at FF. Interesting stuff
Homer, Walsh is a talented player who has been unfortunate with injuries over the years and studying in London has probably not helped his fitness. He was outstanding against Cavan last summer, but struggled against Donegal in the next game and, probably harshly, was dropped for the open draw disaster against Sligo. Walsh has been in and out of our NFL team this year without making much impact, and would be regarded as about 50-50 to start in Breffni. In his case, confidence is a big factor. If he is on top of his game, he is a real threat to the opposition. He is also capable of completely fading out of matches. Perhaps Cavan are his lucky team.
On current Bennys best position is the subs bench. Having said that i believe we have enough to beat Cavan, if Ross can get their heads right and inject some confidence but its always difficult to break a losing streak. I dont believe players sitting out club games at this stage,playing no competitive football, is very helpful
Hannon at full back is the only realistic option we have seeing as Forde isn't working out...although there's no guarantee the management will make this a permanent switch. One way or the other the world and its mother knew Forde wasn't a long-term bet for no.3 which makes it all the more annoying that more options like Hannon weren't tried and 'schooled' there during the league.
The next problem position that will likely be harshly exposed, a la Forde v Roscommon, is Chesty at [centre] back. He's a poor impression of an intercounty no. 6 in my opinion. Doesn't seem very strong or a good physical stopper, not adept at fastening on to breaks, no real pace breaking forward and not an astute foot passer of the ball. Based on the limited action I've seen of him, I will admit. I'd far rather slot Forde in at number 6 and select from our myriad of wing-back options instead of having Chesty in there.
Cavan will breeze through this tie. cavan 2-13 Down 0-11. You heard it here first. ;D
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2007, 01:46:59 AM
Cavan will breeze through this tie. cavan 2-13 Down 0-11. You heard it here first. ;D
Stew.
I think your slightly jumping the gun with this prediction. Down will be the surprise package in this years UFC after a messy league campaign.
Ross & DJ will have the lads prepared for battle.
what`s the prospects of stephen kearney playing
Quote from: naka on May 01, 2007, 04:30:54 PM
what`s the prospects of stephen kearney playing
Little to none, Down have enough forwards that rarely score!!!
think its time this thread was brought back to the top.
despite a poor league campaign, i think down aren't as bad a the league would suggest. only for a few stupid mistakes and few bad decisions those narrow defeats could have been narrow wins. watchin them play against louth in saval, i was impressed with full forward line, good movement and link up play. you could say that louth were poor, but they can only beat whats put in front of them. i'll be going to breffni fairly confident of a win.
Quote from: Hollow Man on April 26, 2007, 02:42:30 PM
and that Gallagher can't cut it
holy feck - that 3-9 a couple of years ago, plus his form in county and club football thus far has been impressive enough
just because he's an outsider....
if you said he's past it, then that might be a debatable point
both teams for me have decent players
Grimley has transformed cavan - should some credit go to keoghan ?
I have to say I was some way wrong with my views on his appointment - whether Grimley is the brains or not.
Down will b
e a hungrier and more motivated side this year trying to escape the memories of an unlucky period under ORourke
two motivated and decent sides
Both have all the attributes required (Down not maybe a physicaly strong as required for champship football - but have speed)
both just seem to have problems puttin it all together on the day though.
would like Cavan to win, esp as I think Down are a bogey team for Derry.
hope its a good close game - it could be a cracker...esp in good weather
The more I think about it, the more I feel that Ross has a big suprise up his sleeve for next Sunday.
what do you think it is?
QuoteThe more I think about it, the more I feel that Ross has a big suprise up his sleeve for next Sunday.
You sure? Who might this be?
he's getting the boots out?
Dunno what it could be but Ross even with the Down Minors a lock of years back and even when he was managing Mitchels always had a suprise up his sleeve. I remember when we played Mitchels in the JFC Semi Final about 5 years ago and we were all expecting Stephen Kearney to be playing centre half forward. For frig sake, Ross didnt even start him and when he did he brought him on at wing back and then switched him to corner forward and. He always seems to have something unsuspecting planned.
Mickey Doyle at centre half back. Maybe DJ at wing half. Decy Mussen on the other wing. Damian Watson at top of the left. Enough surprises - you heard it here first.
My heart says Cavan but my head says Down. I reckon whoever gets a firm grip in the middle will win the game. Cavan were beaten at midfield this year against Sligo, Antrim and even Waterford. Unless this is addressed tactically we won't win. Now every dog on the street in Cavan knows about this problem so you would imagine the management have a plan for this area. However, every dog on the street also knows that Anthony Forde is not a FB but nothing has been done by management at all about that - indeed he played there again in a challenge against Longford last weekend. On the day you never know what could happen but for me Down have to be strong favorites.
Lynchbhoy
Gallagher hasnt done enough from general play for the county this year so far,hes been good from frees,but i was expecting 3 or 4 points from play per game from Gallagher,its what he was capable off a few years ago.
I dont think he will be starting against Down.
I expect Cavan to beat Down with home advantage,but it will be tight.
It's been confirmed that the game is definitely not all-ticket. Breffni has a capacity approaching 30,000, and the expectation is that the crowd will be below 20,000. I think that the live tv coverage means a 4.15pm throw-in, with the minors presumably at around 2.30pm. Let's hope for a decent day and a better standard of football than the corresponding match last summer.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on May 06, 2007, 11:24:41 PM
There corresponding game was a year ago this weekend, I almost died in a car crash afterwards, but out of something bad came something good, I found the GAABoard while recuperating at home ;D. A year is a long time in football, it is one year that many didnt think I would see. I made it, Down will make it eventually.
See you all in Breffni next week. ;)
Jesus, you must have been layed up for a good while to contribute 1300 posts to the board ;D ;D. Well have a safe journey down to Breffni this time.
Any team news Lads?
Trying to finalise my Fantasy GAA team and need a few scoring Defenders? Brady?
Who will be in goals for both teams this year?
Who are yer free takers this year? Brewster or Rory Gallagher?
Is this guy Pierson as good as ye all say? Where's he play, CF?
What about Down?
Think ye'll go far this year. Will the winner beat Monaghan?
From a Cavan viewpoint I would say our best scoring options from defence would be Keith Fannin at wing back. He can also play corner back so there is a bit of doubt where he would play. He plays FF for his club. Paul brady would be good enough at scoring I suppose. The best would be Anthony Forde from wing back but he has been placed at FB in the abscence of our number one FB Darren Rabbitte. If he is moved out of there (as often happens as he is not suited for that position) then he would be a big scoring threat going forward as he is really a natural forward. Pierson can be devastaing if he is on form but to date he hasn't done it this year and indeed fell out of favour at the end of the league. Seanie Johnson is a good corner forward too and is good for 3/4 points in a game. Free taking with Cavan is a bit of a laugh. Gallagher will take them of the ground if he plays, but I personally don't think he deserves his place. Pierson and johnson take frees of the right. Cullivan of the left. Then there is big Dermot who sometimes decides hes going to take all the frees, sideline balls, penalties, kick outs :). Then sometimes McKeever takes frees of the left too. Normally all these players have a go at a free or two every match so who knows which of them to pick.
I reckon the winner of this could take Monaghan and maybe even Derry. The loser will probably be deflated and go nowhere in the qualifiers. I think Down will win but I hope Cavan will.
lyng and jason will try one or two if they play. It's a bit comical .
Quote from: 5iveTimes on May 06, 2007, 11:24:41 PM
There corresponding game was a year ago this weekend, I almost died in a car crash afterwards, but out of something bad came something good, I found the GAABoard while recuperating at home ;D. A year is a long time in football, it is one year that many didnt think I would see. I made it, Down will make it eventually.
See you all in Breffni next week. ;)
Thats awful. Has your life changed?
Up Down!
Cavan have to turn this into an absolute war of attrition around the middle and get in around the breaks with an industry and organisation they haven't shown all year.
Either side has the forwards to expose what are weak enough full back lines, especially in Cavan's case at any rate. When you think we scored 0-14 against Ros with a beaten midfield, and a good few wides as well, it shows we can score a bit if we get ball. Hence why we need to have some sort of new tactic for around the middle to get us an even share.
If we manage that we'll win by a point or two, if not we'll lose, simple as.
Cavan will beat Down on Sunday no problem, i'm going for 1-14 to 0-10 win and lump on in the local bookies as well
If Down have managed to keep Benny Coulter out of the bookies, then they might just sneak it.
Cavan 2-10 Down 3-8
Cavanmaniac, I doubt either of these sides is capable of a war of attrition, and although this means neither will be in the shake-up for honours this season, it should make for an exciting, entertaining contest on Sunday.
On pure ability, I'd put Cavan ahead, principally because they have the more dangerous forward line. Benny Coulter will be the pick of the forwards on show, by some distance too, but Cavan have more potential match winners. When Cavan finally get six fully-fit, in-form forwards on the field together, they'll be too strong for just about anyone, let alone Down. This is far from all doom and gloom for Down though, as it seems to become a Cavan forward, you have to a) suffer alarming dips in form at regular intervals, b) suffer from a career threatening injury at least once every two years, or c) suffer from both a) and b). The 2007 edition look intent on maintaining this tradition.
As we know, both defences will do well to keep their opponents to less than 14 scores, so the game will most likely hinge on a combination of the breaking-ball tally and the wide count - although it could be argued with some conviction that these rules apply to every game of football.
Personally, I'm worried about big Dermot. If the fella has ever played poorly against a Down team, I haven't seen it. Like a bull, when he sees red, he goes mad. The fact that Down cannot pair him off with anyone of a similar physical presence will only play into his hands. Here's hoping he'll be in one of those moods, as mentioned above, when he's more concerned with hitting sideline balls inside his own half than plucking high balls out of the sky.
One other point re midfield. When we met last year in Casement, Dan Gordon entered that game in a rich vein of form from the National League. Cavan had a very deliberate ploy of checking Gordon as he went to make a run for a kick-out. It worked a treat, and allowed for the possession that was one of the main reasons the Breffni men were still in it towards the end. We didn't find a way around it last year, so let's hope we've learned a lesson. Like most Down folk, I reckon we'd stuggle at midfield against most top club sides if Gordon is contained.
But for all my downbeat notes above, I still reckon Down will put in a performance on Sunday that should take the honours, no doubt partly due to the aloof Down man in me. This isn't a vintage Down team, and all evidence so far suggests it is badly organised and full of players out of position. But it is quite a skilful team, and they all love the red and black. They'll be well up for it. And I reckon if they can shed any fears they have, and play with something approaching a 'gay abandon', they could produce a big performance.
I'll make sure I have quite few pints beforehand in any case, just to soften any potential blow.
QuoteI'll make sure I have quite few pints beforehand in any case, just to soften any potential blow.
An excellent approach to take, I think I'll do the same.
Down by 4, Jackie Lynch to roast McCabe. One of those predictions I half-heartedly believe!
I would think that McCabe will be FF with Nicholas Walsh and Lorcan Mulvey midfield. The other possibility is that we will play the 3 of them in the middle and leave a 2 man FF line. The semi final of the league showed us once and for all the Dermot doesn't have the legs to do the running around the middle, although with some help he may still be able to out field many. We'll see. I would say down by 3 pts, but I hope to God I am wrong cos I'd love to have a crack at the mushroom men!!
Any word on the Down minor team??
See the Cavan Minors in the IN today. They should be strong, backboned by the Virginia Markey Cup winning side!!
Quote from: 5iveTimes on May 08, 2007, 08:57:18 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 08, 2007, 12:43:26 PM
Quote from: 5iveTimes on May 06, 2007, 11:24:41 PM
There corresponding game was a year ago this weekend, I almost died in a car crash afterwards, but out of something bad came something good, I found the GAABoard while recuperating at home ;D. A year is a long time in football, it is one year that many didnt think I would see. I made it, Down will make it eventually.
See you all in Breffni next week. ;)
Thats awful. Has your life changed?
Up Down!
Life didnt really change, a lot of broken bones and a punctured lung. The fact that I was driving such a good car helped a lot. 120mph to a sudden stop isnt the most pleasant thing that can happen, but it was alot worse for the drunk driver who hit me. :(
I signed myself out of hospital on the Friday before the Donegal game and had a couple of weeks in Cuba recuperating immediately afterwards. Sadly I came back for the trip to Sligo.
Anyway back to football, any news on a likely XV for Sunday.
You were doing 120?
Quote from: An Cloch Scoilte on May 09, 2007, 12:18:37 PM
See the Cavan Minors in the IN today. They should be strong, backboned by the Virginia Markey Cup winning side!!
All Cavan minor teams since circa 1995 have been 'strong' but have won sweet f**k all. I'll believe in a Cavan minor team when they're lifting the trophy, never before. Jilted one too many times by now!
The Down Minor team should be quite strong this year, though no Martin Clarke's in their squad. They had a decent run in the Minor League. With the Down schools very quiet in the MacRory this year only St Columban's Kilkeel did anything in Ulster. These lads are still under 16 though and may not figure. Notable absentees from the squad would be the Abbey MacRory captain Daniel Clarke and players on both the Abbey and College MacRory squads - yet the son of one of the selectors, Ross Mc Garry, who is still under 16 and Paddy O' Rourke's lad made the cut. Both decisions smack of favouritism and were not made for the good of the team.
I would like to think that the team with forwards like Ben O'Reilly, Sean Murdock and Paul Mc Polin. No doubt they will be run very close and by all accounts this is a very useful Cavan side. Looks like this game will go down to the wire. Should be quite a tussle.
Just got texted the Cavan team.
1. James Reilly
2. M Cahill
3. Gunner Brady :o
4. Chesty Reilly
5. Forde
6. Hannon :o
7. Fannin (think it's Fannin here, the text said Forde again so assume they meant Fannin)
8. McCabe
9. Mulvey
10. Cullivan
11. McKeever
12. Flanagan
13. Jayo
14. Pierson
15. Johnston
I can only assume there will be late changes before throw-in because that is one weird-looking team. Not quite sure how to react. Gunner at fulback? Hannon at centre half? No Walsh? No Sean Brady? No Lyng?
I can only assume that Gunner will swap with Hannon before throw-in and Forde will switch to centre half and Gunner to wing back. Perhaps Walsh or Galligan or some of the others above to start also.
Glad to see though that they have realised that Forde is no full back and Chesty not an intercounty standard centre half either.
We are asking alot of the middle eight with only McCabe and Mulvey recognised fielders with a bit of height and presence. We seriously lack inches in the forward six, even Cullivan is a bit on the short side and for that reason I wouldn't have Flanagan there from the start, he's just too small.
You have to trust that the management team know what they're doing and base this on training and some sort of tactical plan but I'm a bit befuddled by it all and if that is the genuine team I'd be more concerned than confident going into the game.
Interested to see whether McCabe starts around the middle or is employed on the edge of the square with the relatively small Breffni forwards feeding off him. Lyng is a fine option on the bench if needed.
Cavan team on Indo this morning. Slightly different to yours Maniac.
1. J Reilly
2. P Brady
3. E Reilly
4. M Cahill
5. M Hannon
6. A Forde
7. R Flannagan
8. D McCabe
9. L Mulvey
10. R Cullivan
11. M McKeever
12. Larry Reilly
13. Jayo
14. G Pierson
15. S Johnston
Surprising to say the least. Larry making his first start of the year.
The 6 backs probably have nothing to do with positions, I am guessing each is being assigned a specific Down attacker.
Gallagher, Lyng, Fannin, Sean Brady & Walsh all options on the bench.
1. M. McVeigh
2. D. McCartan
3. D. Rooney
4. K. McGuigan
5. R. Murtagh
6. B. Grant
7. J. Clarke
8. D. Gordon
9. J. Lynch
10. J. McGovern
11. A. Carr
12. R. Sexton
13. D. Hughes
14. P. Downey
15. B. Coulter
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence but best of luck to each and everyone of them.
Quote from: Cloc Mor on May 09, 2007, 07:23:22 PM
The Down Minor team should be quite strong this year, though no Martin Clarke's in their squad. They had a decent run in the Minor League. With the Down schools very quiet in the MacRory this year only St Columban's Kilkeel did anything in Ulster. These lads are still under 16 though and may not figure. Notable absentees from the squad would be the Abbey MacRory captain Daniel Clarke and players on both the Abbey and College MacRory squads - yet the son of one of the selectors, Ross Mc Garry, who is still under 16 and Paddy O' Rourke's lad made the cut. Both decisions smack of favouritism and were not made for the good of the team.
I would like to think that the team with forwards like Ben O'Reilly, Sean Murdock and Paul Mc Polin. No doubt they will be run very close and by all accounts this is a very useful Cavan side. Looks like this game will go down to the wire. Should be quite a tussle.
Also Brian King from Bryansford - picked at left corner back on College All Star team, very strange he doesnt figure.
Maniac did u get that team from some of the players? That could be the team that's starting and the indo one a dummy team ???
QuoteDoesn't exactly inspire confidence but best of luck to each and everyone of them.
Couldn't have put it better myself No.1.
All told, that only leaves six survivors from POR's team for this game last year - McCartan, Grant, Clarke, Gordon, Hughes and Coulter, with only McCartan and Gordon in the same positions. We did ask for change I suppose!
Personally I don't see how our full-back line will have the pace for Cavan's full-forwards. And with two natural forwards in our half-back line, a whole pile of support most likely won't be forthcoming from there.
We really, really need to dominate midfield.
Quote from: Blue06 on May 10, 2007, 07:56:42 AM
Cavan team on Indo this morning. Slightly different to yours Maniac.
1. J Reilly
2. P Brady
3. E Reilly
4. M Cahill
5. M Hannon
6. A Forde
7. R Flannagan
8. D McCabe
9. L Mulvey
10. R Cullivan
11. M McKeever
12. Larry Reilly
13. Jayo
14. G Pierson
15. S Johnston
Surprising to say the least. Larry making his first start of the year.
The 6 backs probably have nothing to do with positions, I am guessing each is being assigned a specific Down attacker.
Gallagher, Lyng, Fannin, Sean Brady & Walsh all options on the bench.
Well I suppose we did hope for a plan B and one seems to be on the cards if that team is to believed. I am surprised there is no Lyng. Larry is supposed to be flying in training and played very well in a challenge againts longford so that doesn't surprise me. The weakness is our lack of size in the half back and half forward lines and a really strange decisiion if Paul Brady will play half back. It might work if down play a 2 man FF line though. Chesty at FB is a big chance, why wasn't he tried there in the league?
The other thing is that in this day and age you never know what team will actually line out and in what positions on the day, although this management team haven't been at that messing in the league to date.
Quote from: No1 on May 10, 2007, 08:08:47 AM
1. M. McVeigh
2. D. McCartan
3. D. Rooney
4. K. McGuigan
5. R. Murtagh
6. B. Grant
7. J. Clarke
8. D. Gordon
9. J. Lynch
10. J. McGovern
11. A. Carr
12. R. Sexton
13. D. Hughes
14. P. Downey
15. B. Coulter
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence but best of luck to each and everyone of them.
It may not be exposed on sunday but that half back line will be decimated against top quality opposition. but sure they'll prbably chip in a point or two while they're at it...
Down Minor team
Player Club
1. Kieran Gordan Loughinisland
2. Conor Doyle An Riocht
3. Ryan Mallon Warrenpoint
4 Niall Higgins Annaclone
5. Ryan Boyle Warrenpoint
6. Micheal Higgins Ballymartin
7. Ryan McGovern Burren
8. Ruairi Digney Saval
9. Eamon Toner Burren
10. Paul Devlin Kilcoo
11. Conor Poland Longstone
12. Ben O'Reilly Loughinisland
13. Christopher Killen An Riocht
14. Sean Murdock Burren
15. Paul McPolin Clonduff
Quote from: Uladh on May 10, 2007, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: No1 on May 10, 2007, 08:08:47 AM
1. M. McVeigh
2. D. McCartan
3. D. Rooney
4. K. McGuigan
5. R. Murtagh
6. B. Grant
7. J. Clarke
8. D. Gordon
9. J. Lynch
10. J. McGovern
11. A. Carr
12. R. Sexton
13. D. Hughes
14. P. Downey
15. B. Coulter
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence but best of luck to each and everyone of them.
It may not be exposed on sunday but that half back line will be decimated against top quality opposition. but sure they'll prbably chip in a point or two while they're at it...
That is a very strong half forward line cavan have, cullivan is only out of minor last year but has been one of cavan's best players this year. Mckeever normally goes back around half back line so it will be interested to see what he does on sunday. Larry reilly is capable of destroying anyone.
Full back line wouldnt exactly inspire confidence either.
Just wondering if this match is all-ticket??
Sorry if this has been covered earlieri n this thread, don't have the time to check back.
Covered stand is ticket though.. Are u going Gaoth Dobhair?
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 10, 2007, 10:54:58 AM
Covered stand is ticket though.. Are u going Gaoth Dobhair?
Yeah, the wifes from Co. Down!
God love her, she thinks this is going to be the tie of the championship!! ;)
I'm not sure what happened with the team I got! Sorry for misleading people...I 'm subscribed to Vodafone's Cavan service which is normally very reliable >:( and sends me team selections as soon as they're announced to the media. It seems they got a dummy team this time or just made an absolute balls of inputting the text message or something ::). Apologies again!
1. J Reilly
2. P Brady
3. E Reilly
4. M Cahill
5. M Hannon
6. A Forde
7. R Flannagan
8. D McCabe
9. L Mulvey
10. R Cullivan
11. M McKeever
12. Larry Reilly
13. Jayo
14. G Pierson
15. S Johnston
I can see Hannon swapping with Gunner and McKeever dropping back with Flanagan moving up when the game starts. Larry's selection is a surprise but he looked sharp and motivated when he came on against Roscommon so obviously the management have seen something they like in training, hope he's something like the Larry of old because on form he's a top forward.
Lyng and Walsh's exclusion is a surprise but they'll both be on the field by the finish, that's for sure. Much happier with the team now I must say...
Hope Chesty is not full back, Coulter destroyed him in 04 scoring 2 goals and a point before Doc Collins was moved onto him, think Chesty was then dropped for game with armagh. The fact that Hannon is named in the HB line gives me hope that he will be moved to FB and Chesty moved to HB, both these players are more natural in these lines. Glad to see that sense has prevailed regarding Gallagher but dissappointed to see that Lyng obviously isn't fit enough to start, I would be worried that without him we don't have someone to pick a pass out for the forwards.
who will kick the frees?
Cullivan and Pierson I'd imagine, neither of whom have had a very good covnersion rate in recent games, Cullivan seems far too nervous for it IMO.
Then again, they take the kicks out of the hands which I absolutely hate to see, this was one thing Finbar Reilly was half decent at, i.e. kicking accurately off the ground. Only players like Canavan and Maurice Fitz truly mastered the kicking from the hands consistently.
Free-taking a is a big worry for us all round. Pierson missed a hatful (against Wexford was it?) and Cullivan struggled any time I've seen him as well (u21s and seniors).
Yeah a good free taker could be worth up to 6 points a game.
Similar question for the Down team; who will kick the frees? Poor free taking cost us the game up in cross recently! I assume Aidan Carr will hit them from the left side of the field but who's in line for the left footed kicks?
Weather for Sunday looks very dodgy. Bring your Flat cap, Bin linner and Wellies!
http://magicseaweed.com/UK-Ireland-MSW-Surf-Charts/1/pressure/in/
Quote from: Fíor Gael on May 10, 2007, 12:28:41 PM
Similar question for the Down team; who will kick the frees? Poor free taking cost us the game up in cross recently! I assume Aidan Carr will hit them from the left side of the field but who's in line for the left footed kicks?
Ceist mhaith Fíor Gael!!!!
God knows who'll hit the ones on the right hand side. I don't recognise a left footed free taker on the team!!
I thought John Boyle would have been a better option a CHF than Carr, but obviously not to the managemnt's thinking!!
I am feeling a bit more optimistic about our chances now since management seem to have realised that things needed to change.
Yep it's the usual "hopes rising three days before the game" feeling that I always get before Cavan's first championship game every year, irrespective of our chances.
Gwan the blues! ;D
cavan 4 sam
Just looking back at this thread, and the similarities between the thinking of Cavan Gaels and Down Gaels is amazing. Two proud footballing counties sore from being beaten up once too many times, but still with hope.
QuoteI thought John Boyle would have been a better option a CHF than Carr, but obviously not to the managemnt's thinking!!
I think you do Ross a disservice there. Boyle has done well, put Aidan Carr simply has more county experience and IMO is there on merit. He may not be as good as his old man, but he is a decent free-taker and can lob over the odd 45 as well.
I don't think Ross is one of those managers who will blindly pick his son for the sake of it. Aidan did OK during the league and played well for Queen's this year. If anything, I think Ross would be his own son's biggest critic.
Quotetwo natural forwards in our half-back line
To be honest, it's that long since Clarke played as a forward, i think you could hardly call him a natural forward. I think it's probably the strongest team Ross could have picked when you factor in injuries and experience.
I've had an argument about this already somewhere Fear Boiche - but John Clarke nowadays plays all his club football at wing-forward, a position that fully suits his skillset, and from where he regularly tallies up big individual scores.
Personally I don't think he's a strong enough man-marker to play defence.
Yes, I've often thought he would make a better forward myself for the county team. Even as a wing-back, he enjoys the odd raid forward but whether we can afford him AND Murtagh on Sunday doing that is another matter. Where's Murtagh playing for Ballyholland, wobbler?
clarke was tried, in half forward before and it def didnt work, i personally would rarther see him playing half back. i don't think there was much surprise in the team, as someone said we need to win the midfield battle first and foremost. get good early ball into our forwards who i think will cause too many problems for the cavan defence. Down to win by 5.
I think Downey is a good selection. He will give us a good presence at FF. He'll probably form a two-man FF line with Benny which would stop Benny getting isolated so much. I've said all along that I think Cavan will win, but the more I think about, we have a decent chance if we can click from midfield up. Will be interested to see how McGovern gets on, think he deserves his chance in the team and is another scoring option.
Best team in the circumstances and delighted to see it on a Thursday- more like it Ross and DJ.
Think that probably had more to do with the publishers of the programme to be honest.
Doubt it. During the POR era not one Down team was available before the day. That really put the wind up the opposition!
what your full forward Packie Downey like?
Please tell me hes not massive ,fast and great under the high ball or we are f**ked.
Probably our best available team, and one which should be capable of asking serious questions of Cavan. If we win MF we will win the match
Cavan are 4/7 with the books to win this one. Amazing in my less than optimistic opinion and I wonder if Benny has been tempted to have a serious flutter. What these odd's suggest to me is that the bookies reckon that either, (a) Down are in a serious state of shite and/or (b) Cavan's performance levels in lower reaches of the league are not a serious reflection of the team's ability.
I would be interested in the opinions of the Down posters on point (a). Regarding point (b) I can only comment on the basis of the two games I saw in the flesh this season-our last two against Waterford and Roscommon. A massive improvement on those performances are needed if we are to get up on Sunday. Changes of substance since those games-Forde out of full back line which is a positive, Mulvey into midfield-the best option we had but a junior club footballer un-proven at this level-it's a big ask for the lad, Larry in at half forward-hmmmmmmmmmmmm, Pierson into full forward line instead of Gallagher which is a potential plus.
Taking a line on last years match is little help from our point of view-we were seriously mullered with injuries, morale was at an all time low after the Waterford debacle. I recall us putting out a number of forwards on the day that did not look fit to play in a Junior club team let alone. This year at least we seem to have an improvement on the injuries front with the possibility of a few blokes to come off the bench and help out (Brady/Lyng/Walsh).
So now I am totally bloody confused. What really worries me is if people were to go back one year on the Cavan thread there was an almost unanimous view that the, ahem, Heroes of 97 had their day. We line out on Sunday with four of the very lads on board. We continue to have a situation where big, strong Cavan men of inter county football ability are as rare as rocking horse shite.
My conclusion from all this-the bookies are either un-informed (does not happen) or else they reckon Down are in a desperate state. Comments please from our Mourne friends.
Speaking as a Cavan man I am puzzled that Down are not pushing hard at the highest level. They have a level of underage success in the past 10 years that we can only dream of-two minor All Irelands, one Under 21 final-correct? Why has this not translated by now.
Ballyhaise.......Packie Downey is a big[6'3],very quick,mobile player. he has a good all round game-he can be a real handful-whoever is marking him will have plenty to do.just doesnt have the experience of playing at this level..........but then how do you get this experience !
regarding boyle instead of carr,i was at the sigerson final when both where playing chf and carr hada far better game also heard boyle wasnt 2 hot in u21 though reports where he was one of jtowns best players this year.ps no different standard of football
Quote from: TORGAEL on May 10, 2007, 10:04:29 PM
Ballyhaise.......Packie Downey is a big[6'3],very quick,mobile player. he has a good all round game-he can be a real handful-whoever is marking him will have plenty to do.
Bugger.
Anglocelt39, there's no doubt Down would have hoped to do better with the products of our minor and u21 teams than has so far been the case. However, the 1999 AI winning minor side will give us five starters on Sunday - the entire half back line of John Clarke, Grant and Murtagh, plus Sexton and Coulter up front. If Walsh and Doyle were fully fit, that would be seven, which is a very high percentage to move up to senior intercounty from even an excellent minor side. It could only have happened because our senior team went into a steep decline from 1996 onwards, with the result that promising youngsters were regularly thrown in prematurely. Some disappeared immediately while others took much longer to develop their potential.
Hopefully, we will not make the same mistake with the 2005 equivalent. Downey (who, for the information of Ballyhaiseman, is indeed big, strong and reasonably fast) has made the first 15 on Sunday, Marty Clarke would be there if he was not on a professional contract in Australia and McComiskey is on the bench. That is plenty for now. Colgan and McKernan are certainly good enough for the squad and probably for the first team, but holding them back for a year will do no harm.
The u21s who made the AI final were not as talented overall as the minors from the same year, but Henry, Cunningham, McClean, Carr and McGovern are all in Sunday's squad and Rogers is injured.
Down should have won the Anglo-Celt in 2003, and the players probably concluded that they were bound to make a breakthrough over the next couple of years. The evidence is that they did not work hard enough, and we have since failed to get past the first round for three consecutive seasons.
We have a new management in place this time round, but we are facing a Cavan team which is probably just as desparate for a win as ourselves. I'm not at all convinced that both teams will line out as selected. McCabe may start at midfield. but he is highly unlikely to finish there. He could make an early switch to the square, with Walsh taking over in the centre. Both are forceful players, with Walsh having a bit of a reputation for mixing it. That is probably why Lynch is there for Down, as, although he is physically strong enough, there are doubts over his speed of both movement and thought.
I'm concerned about our half forward line's ability to get possession, and Aidan Burns might have been a decent option there to win the ball for others. However, he has lacked confidence so far and must not have impressed in training.
Cavan, even with a seriously understrength team, should have beaten us at Casement last year, and we completely threw away a game which was effectively in the bag at Breffni in 2004. This has been a largely unpredictable fixture in recent times, and luck will play a big part on Sunday. We will travel more in hope than expectation, but the funny thing is that the boost which will go to the winners on Sunday could easily take them to an Ulster final.
Quote from: TORGAEL on May 10, 2007, 10:04:29 PM
Ballyhaise.......Packie Downey is a big[6'3],very quick,mobile player. he has a good all round game-he can be a real handful-whoever is marking him will have plenty to do.just doesnt have the experience of playing at this level..........but then how do you get this experience !
He ain't quick and he has a nice shiny pair of wing mirrors...
i cant see McCabe at midfield
he got destroyed at Midfield by Seamie O Neil and later Michael Finneran against Roscommon.
i could see him at Full Forward with Jayo making way and Nicko Walsh at midfield.
the Full Back has recently been a problem position for Down,Have you got that sorted with this lad Declan Rooney?
have to say as an armagh man i hope down do the biz on sunday and get to the ulster final, for a county like down to be in the doldrums for so long is criminal and the county board must take the majority of the blame for this.
i cant see rooney playing full back cos i feel he is a better half back, and was indeed surprised that colgan left the panel, saying that i think down to win with 4 points to spare
Joe Brolly was on newstalk this morning and when asked who would win he said "who cares" and that it was "only delaying the enevitable"
Discuss ;)
Joe Brolly is a dickhead and i hope whoever wins goes on and beats Monaghan and then stuffs Derry.
Quotethe county board must take the majority of the blame for this.
I really do wonder how anyone could arrive at this decision.
FAO the Cavan boys.
What's the best pub to watch Longford V The legal profession's favourite county?
The breffini inn is always good for matches. ;)
the wobbler, there was no real fundraising strategy within Down to raise monies for player training and county team developement, down went on 1 training weekend this year, look at the monies raised by tyrone, cavan fermanagh etc, with regard kit the guys only got their boots and training kit 3 weeks ago in banbridge .Last year when the flexibility guy Ivan hepled out he did it as a favour and wasnt paid surely at this stage levels should be stepped up
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 11, 2007, 10:46:18 AM
The breffini inn is always good for matches. ;)
The Breffni Inn is an ideal place for matches. It is the closest pub to Breffni Park, is well laid out, comfy seats and has some nice looking barmaids. It has been recently renovated and is quite modern and classy look now - indeed a haunt fit for the solicitors of Cavan. I believe many a garda has been spotted there in the past. It also got rave reviews in Pub Spy on the Sunday World in times gone by - sure you couldn't go wrong, could you?
He ain't quick and he has a nice shiny pair of wing mirrors...
[/quote]
Somewhat harsh, Downey has a real turn of speed and can be quite a handful, he suffered a bad ankle break a couple of seasons ago and did take quite a while to recover, and to get his pace back, but he had a good year with UUJ and is back firing on all cylinders. I never thought of him as yellow, lazy but not yellow.
Quote from: Fíor Gael on May 11, 2007, 12:30:06 PM
Somewhat harsh, Downey has a real turn of speed and can be quite a handful, he suffered a bad ankle break a couple of seasons ago and did take quite a while to recover, and to get his pace back, but he had a good year with UUJ and is back firing on all cylinders. I never thought of him as yellow, lazy but not yellow.
That's it Fíor Gael, stick up for the man from the 'Gath!!!
Quote from: An Cloch Scoilte on May 11, 2007, 12:40:12 PM
Quote from: Fíor Gael on May 11, 2007, 12:30:06 PM
Somewhat harsh, Downey has a real turn of speed and can be quite a handful, he suffered a bad ankle break a couple of seasons ago and did take quite a while to recover, and to get his pace back, but he had a good year with UUJ and is back firing on all cylinders. I never thought of him as yellow, lazy but not yellow.
That's it Fíor Gael, stick up for the man from the 'Gath!!!
Only because there are no Letrim men on the team. ;D
FG , Pay no heed to Uladh , he rarely has a good word for the red and black . It's a jealousy thing ;D . He cant help it , it's bred into them ;D
Funny that, because i can't remember seeing a down team beat an armagh team, at any level, in competitive football in the last ten years...
1991 the Marshes?
Down didnt have a bad year in 1991 at senior level ;)
Pre 2002 , doesn't count ;)
Dodgy defences, out of position full-backs, goal-hunting forwards on both sides, a 90 year old in goals for Down - 12/5 that there'll be three or more goals looks a bloody good bet.
wobbler any odds first goal scorer or should i ask benny :D
QuoteFunny that, because i can't remember seeing a down team beat an armagh team, at any level, in competitive football...
Just as I thought Uladh is a 16 year old spotty kid...way back to Hogan Stand
Quote from: 5 Sams on May 11, 2007, 02:11:31 PM
QuoteFunny that, because i can't remember seeing a down team beat an armagh team, at any level, in competitive football...
Just as I thought Uladh is a 16 year old spotty kid...way back to Hogan Stand
Ha ha Uladh!!!
Ripped out!!!
Slan leat a mhic!!
Ádh mór ort Uladh, níl cead agat a bheith ar Gaa Board go ceann cupla bliain eile, ádh mór leis na GCSEs.
Down on the up
Carr driven by getting Mournemen back to the summit
Friday, May 11, 2007
By John Campbell
Ross Carr makes no bones about it - he is currently picking his steps through a sporting minefield.
The Clonduff clubman took delivery of two All Ireland medals as a Down player in 1991 and 1994 but this weekend he will be sampling the Bank of Ireland Ulster Championship for the first time as Mourne county boss.
And as he prepares to send his team out against Cavan at Kingspan Breffni Park, he offers a straight from the shoulder assessment of just why his side failed to deliver in the recent National League.
"The consistency of our inconsistency has been a big worry," admits Carr. "The fact that we only garnered a single point in the league has inevitably bred fear. But now we are going into a massive game and we all have to trust each other so that we can deliver a big performance. "
His abrasive style, superb accuracy from long-range frees and a fierce work ethic underpinned Carr's lengthy tenure in the famous red and black jersey.
But today he views the Championship landscape from a rather different perspective.
"When I was playing, I could afford to be selfish - I got myself right mentally and physically and just hoped that everyone else did the same. Now as a manager you have to read minds, look for signs that are either encouraging or discouraging, weigh up selection options and just hope that your judgement is right. In fact, you have to trust your instincts as much as anything," maintains Carr.
"I don't want to be ringing players all the time, being intrusive and a source of irritation. I have faith in them, I want them to do well for themselves and for Down."
He has watched Tyrone and Armagh dominate the Ulster Championship since the dawn of the new Millennium and is in no doubt as to just why they have been so successful.
"The Tyrones, Armaghs and Kerrys of this world know how to close out games, know how to apply the killer punch. They may even struggle during long periods of a match but in the last ten minutes they can turn things in their favour. These teams have the attitude and the personalities to do this - they will always have players who can step up to the mark when they are most needed," insists Carr.
The Down side that will attempt to wrest the Anglo Celt Cup away from Armagh may not, Carr suggests, yet have the overall maturity required to be regarded as a major Championship force.
"If you look at the teams that have been successful of late, invariably they have a few players in their early 30's and a substantial number in their mid-20's with perhaps a couple of youngsters thrown in. We don't have that kind of mix but if things go according to plan we will have a couple of years down the line," he said.
"You can't buy experience. It's a vital ingredient in a Championship context. You need it to cope with match-day pressures, with the atmosphere, with the opposition and even with the refereeing decisions that might go against you."
Yet, for all the foreboding that has overshadowed Down's itinerary to date this year, Carr is genuinely excited about pitching his side into the Ulster Championship - and against Cavan in particular.
"I remember going to see matches in Breffni Park - and not just games involving Down either - in the 70's and 80's and I thought there was fantastic atmosphere there. There is a great volume of noise from the stand, the pitch is big, the tension is electric. If you want to succeed you have to cope in an environment like this," asserts Carr.
And can his team cope with the pressures that await them?
"In a sense, there is no pressure except the pressure you put on yourself. I believe that it is how we perform when we don't actually have the ball that will determine whether or not we win the game. The same principle applies in an Ulster Championship match that applies in an Under 10 game - the first fifteen minutes will be a settling down period, then the next 10 or 15 minutes will see one side get on top, then the other will have a period of dominance but it's what happens over the last ten minutes that will really count," observes Carr.
And that word inconsistency keeps cropping up as Carr plots his strategy for a game that he views as "big as any I ever played in myself."
He adds: "Look at our scores for and scores against in the National League. In one game we scored seven points and in another 1-14 while defensively we conceded 0-9 in a match but have leaked 2-16. That's the kind of statistics we are trying to remedy."
Thirteen years have elapsed since the Sam Maguire Cup was proudly borne into the Kingdom of Mourne.
Maybe Carr's side are not equipped to deliver the blue riband of gaelic football for a sixth time into a sports-mad county but the manager nonetheless feels they have the attributes to regain credibility and perhaps even a ration of glory in an Ulster context.
"We like to think we are realistic with our feet on the ground. Sunday's game against Cavan will give us an insight as to just where we are - and maybe we will get that rub of the green that eluded us in the National League," smiles Carr.
Quote from: Fíor Gael on May 11, 2007, 02:48:23 PM
Ádh mór ort Uladh, níl cead agat a bheith ar Gaa Board go ceann cupla bliain eile, ádh mór leis na GCSEs.
Cheers newbie
Quote from: Uladh on May 11, 2007, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: Fíor Gael on May 11, 2007, 02:48:23 PM
Ádh mór ort Uladh, níl cead agat a bheith ar Gaa Board go ceann cupla bliain eile, ádh mór leis na GCSEs.
Cheers newbie
Maith thú ;D
Down supporters remind me of liverpool supporters. "we used to be great i tell you...."
But nobody could possibly believe it.
When did down last beat decent opposition in the championship?
even monaghan, cavan, fermanagh and antrim have produced one off performances to take big scalps.
so thats two questions now. 1) when did down last beat armagh at any level, and 2) When did down last beat above average opposition in the championship?
liverpool will have played in 4 finals in 3 years .uladh so to compare down with liverpool isballs
QuoteFunny that, because i can't remember seeing a down team beat an armagh team, at any level, in competitive football...
Now now Uladh...don't try to deflect attention away from your selective memory by focussing on Down's recent (admittedly dire) record.
As for the Liverpool quote...there's no comparison.....we haven't been beaten in a Final and while we also won the big prize 5 times...we didn't need extra time or penalties....and anyway......using that analogy who would Armagh be??? Aston Villa or Notts Forest......oh thats right it couldnt be Forest...they won it twice.
down are probably like preston north end or blackpool who were good/great sides in the distant past but who may never return
Right that's it for another week , Just like to wish the lads all the best on Sunday and hope all Down posters are in good form on Monday . ;D
We are Down 8)
Tyrone weren't decent in 1999.
Lets get real here lads.
I'm sorry to have to point out what you all know in your hearts. down haven't won a single competetive game this year. you have a group similar pedigree athletes who just can't compete in intercounty football to any serious level. your defenders (use of this description of those players is a leap) are hilariously bad. not one of your starting defenders on sunday would make the armagh panel.
You guys are discussing whether its ok to be optimistic about beating cavan and if you win two games you'll have made progress.
having won 6 of the last 8 ulster titles, we are discussing whether winning the anglo celt again or the back door route is the best preparation for an assault on sam.
now.
who's notts forest?
So you're saying that, although down are crap, you believe armagh will soon be crap also. and Armagh's record of 6 ulster titles, one national league and one all ireland in the last years is so insignificant that you'd rather down stayed in under their rock rather than come out from under it for that paltry lot?
Good luck Down!
The original point was that down are crap, nothing to do with armagh.
You down boys hold onto your memories hard...
The usual down response when faced with the reality that they are shite....
Nobody's as good as we used to be!!!!
:D
you couldn't make it up...
Nobody's as good as we used to be!!!
There is a song about you boys. It starts "Long long time ago, i can still remember....
Why do the Armagh posters feel the need to bring every thread back to Armagh and their 6 ulster titles in 8 years? This thread was about discussing the start of the championship. Although neither team may be a genuine All Ireland contender at this point the game ahead is still very interesting with more questions than answers. Id give a hesitant tip to Down but that would be based on Carr hiding something during the league and saving the best for the championship. Thats a pritty big if though. The Down full forward line looks the strongest line on the pitch and could do some serious damage with the right ball. As usual a lot will depend on Benny Coulter who doesnt appear to be having the best of seasons. Their recent challenge game win over Louth did see an impressive score built up but who knows what team Louth had out or what frame of mind they were in. Id like to see the winner of this match go on and get to an ulster final. Cavan do have some decent options on the bench with Lyng being a potential match winner but this again raises another question - after so long out will he be able to come back in and produce at the top level.
Well since we are looking at the history books I would think you should all be reminded that Cavan have also won 5 all irelands, played in 11. We have also won 39 Ulster titles. I think, historically, Cavan, Down would be well ahead of Armagh for what it is worth. Armagh have 13 Ulsters and 1 all ireland. Monaghan also have 13 Ulsters, followed by Antrim with ten.
You can check all the stats on Ulster at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Senior_Football_Championship
All the stats on the all ireland at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship
let that be the end of it except to say.......
CAVAN FOR SAM ;D
Thankfully someone got the thread back on track once the girls took a breath in between squabbling above!
Best of luck to both Cavan and Down minors and seniors on Sunday, let's hope for a game to thrill the supporters and neutrals alike and redress the damage done to our proud reputations as the traditional Ulster standard bearers in the Casement Park damp squib last year.
And may the best team on the day win.
And let that be Cavan. Thank you.
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on May 11, 2007, 05:08:58 PM
Why do the Armagh posters feel the need to bring every thread back to Armagh and their 6 ulster titles in 8 years?
They didn't this time brains.... when it was pointed out that down were shite, a fact they would actually acknowledge themselves, they brought up records... albeit ancient ones against modern ones. twas simply a debate about how shite down are til they got all defensive
Yeah good luck to Down on Sunday. I'm getting home from Texas a few days early which is great because I can make the game now. I'm not looking forward to Monday morning. I don't have the day of and the post championship game hangover will be as bad as ever.
I haven't seen much of Down this year because of clashes with club games but I'm optimistic that we can turn Cavan over. I'm looking forward to seeing how Downey gets on. I haven't seen much of him apart from a few times I went to watch Drumgath. He could be a handfull for the Cavan full back and might take some pressure of King Benny. Watch Sexton, I am expecting great things from him this year. His form for the Bridge has been outstanding, if we get anything close to that level of perfomance from him he will do some real damage.
God help whoever is sitting beside DJ in the stands!
This ill be a very interesting game. On the GAA prediction game im in i gave Cavan the nod. Down have let me down to many times in the past
1991 being a case in point ;D
This will be an easy opener for Cavan
right ye's lucky b... enjoy sunday, the first time il be home sick!!half 7 is an early start though without the pain of watchun the national league i will be as confident/hopeful as ever
uladh, wise up, ye's hav won damn all!i remember a lock o years back the relations giving me an awful slagging about linden (legend) comin back into the panel, well marsden!!we were in dire straights then and obviously you's are in the same boat now glad to see it!! ;D ;D
Due to the amount of bitching Uldah does Im hope he/she is a woman. In terms of Armagh the best way to sum up their last 8 years is like a good 10000m pacemaker who in one freak race (season) managed to beat the leading contenders when everything went right. Unlikely to happen again though! Im tipping Down to win 2-12 to 1-12 but just hope its a good game.
Amazing how tetchy down wans get the week running into their annual beating.
now, if i could only get one of the credible down posters to bite....
who is down penalty taker ?
Good luck to Down tomorrow. Brolly fancies ye too.
Quote from: ONeill on May 12, 2007, 07:19:32 PM
Good luck to Down tomorrow. Brolly fancies ye too.
Brolly's a bollox. >:(
20 mins: Cavan 0-4 v 2-1 Down - good goal by Coulter
Clear to see Grimley's influence on the Cavan preparation - arms like gorillas on most of them - very 2002!
This is a shocking game so far
Shocking but entertaining all the same.
No defences, not a tackle in the game, it'll please some.
REf likes to be harsh on steps
"lovely hands, bang....back of the net"
Its hard too believe this is Senior Inter county football
Mackey and Lyng are now on - What are they at - taking off Johnston?
Second half even worse than the first. Whats with all the cramp, I thought these teams were supposed to be fit
2-11 to 3-8. Sounded like it was exciting enough anyway....
who win??
Didn't see a thing, how was it? Must have been brutal defending all round?
At least it's a change from the 'blanket defences' we hear about, no doubt people across the South will be slating it no matter what
Match was a draw
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 13, 2007, 05:37:50 PM
Didn't see a thing, how was it? Must have been brutal defending all round?
At least it's a change from the 'blanket defences' we hear about, no doubt people across the South will be slating it no matter what
The defenses were well-packed though! Its just that the defending was shocking! McVeigh will have a few sleepless nights over that last goal as well.
Poor game. Down have no one in the forward line bar Benny Coulter but I still expect them to beat Cavan back in Newry in the replay.
Down threw that away, lucky to get the draw in the end with 2 great points from number 5 ronan murtagh! Down's full back line were very weak today, the weakest i've ever seen, mcguigan and mc cartan were turned inside out and back to front numerous occassions, change this and down look promising imo. Down's subs were good today, monk and paul murphy very impressive and mc comisky scored a cracking point!! down to win the replay by 3 points!
Is the replay in Newry?
'get off the fence Joe!' ataboy Rourkey.Replay will be in Newry
Quote from: aontroim on May 13, 2007, 04:22:53 PM
20 mins: Cavan 0-4 v 2-1 Down - good goal by Coulter
Clear to see Grimley's influence on the Cavan preparation - arms like gorillas on most of them - very 2002!
I think you've fallen victim to the short, tight sleeves illusion. Monaghan had the same style jersies in the Div. 2 semi. They just scream "Look at us, we've been doing weights!", despite the fact that they aren't any bigger than their opponents.
replay next sat or sunday ?
Will the match prob not be played in casement, is the marshes still not being finished off??
Quote from: AnDunYeGo on May 13, 2007, 06:20:31 PM
Will the match prob not be played in casement, is the marshes still not being finished off??
I think your correct, although i would imagine a meeting will be held at the marshes tomorrow to assess whether the pitch will be ready for a game. It would be the only concern i think as the stand is more or less finished, however as always with these things health and safety will have a say too.
Down defence were very poor. Grant was way of the pace, mcguigan was disappointing and Rooney sadly is not the answer at full back. 3 goals and 7 points, and 4 of the points coming from wing backs!! I feel we can improve as this was quite a nervous opener but the defence will be badly exposed somewhere along the line.
The Cavan half forward line didnt mark their men at all... Cullivan very disappointing and Larry tired after an absolutely brilliant opening 25 minutes.
We should have introduced Lyng or Sean Brady, fresh legs to track back, for Larry early in the second half and we'd be in the next round.
McCabe rolled back the years - he was immense. Gunner got roasted, Coulter is some player. ,Mickey Hannon held him reasonably well but Benny did skin him 2 or 3 times and hit bad wides...
Weird decisions on the line. Our full forward line was on top, so we withdrew two of them and left on the one (Jason) who was off the pace...
From the minors game, same old Cavan - 16 wides to down's 6, including hitting the upright twice int he last 5 minutes.
Digney at midfield for Down was superb, and for Cavan it was corner back Minagh.
Martin Dunne hid all day (typical townie anyone??) and Mckiernan was a massive disappointment. Had we had Keating to win ball and kick frees for longer, we'd have won it.
I highly doubt if we'll beat Down next Sunday.
Interestingly, the seniors lost by five last year to Down, the exact amount Walsh scored. He'd have made the difference today.
Few cavan perspecives. Firstly, don't think either side will be causing too many waves in July and beyond. The lack of fitness among some of our players really makes you wonder. Now whatever about some of the older heads-Mulvey and Gunner.........................
Given that Cavan people seriously questioned some of the sideline thinking/decisions during the Roscommon League semi final, I reckon some of the thinking on the sideline today would give you real cause to get very worried. It is the worst kept secret in the GAA that Coulter is Down's main threat and we left him inside, one on one with a seriously under pressure M Hannon for how long??? Taking off Jelly and replacing him with Cian Mackey was, how do you say this,...........puzzling.
We have to get Lyng and Sean Brady on the park sooner from now on. They both display a bit of awareness and nous that is sadly lacking in one or two of their more established team-mates. Can we win next Sunday, we actually can if we could learn some lessons that desperately needed learning over 70 minutes out there today. What really concerns me is that the mother and father of a trouncing awaits us if we run into a team that actually converts it's chances.
Oh yes, one last thing, who the hell is our free taker?
Brick, did not get the minor match result, on the basis that we hit the upright twice in the last five minutes presume we lost by a point? Reading between the lines of your post don't tell me we actually brought on young Keating today when the going got tough? Shades of a certain bandaged John Tierney several years ago against Derry.
On we go.
While I may have taken a draw before the game, a draw was a disappointed result. Apart from Rony Murtagh and Monk Cole when he came in, the rest of them were totally off the pace. Full back line was brutal, Mc Guigan was turned inside out twice in the space of two minutes and Dan (I'm only here because of my name) Mc Cartan is the worst excuse for a County defender I have ever seen. Mickey Mc Veigh is always liable to make one silly error after 2/3 wonder saves and yet again he did it today to bring Cavan back into the game
Midfield worked hard. Lynch was effective in spoiling Mc Cabe yet the ball he broke was rarely picked up. Interesting that Mc Cabe came into it more when Jackie went off. Gordon had a good hour, some decent scores and high fielding.
Sexton had a great game with his two goals. Carr also worked hard and put in a decent performance. I was very disappointed with Danny Hughes who should have been taken off sooner and Mc Govern never got going. Packie made many good runs and linked fairly well though his late shot had 'Irish News Headlines' written all over it. Benny conjured two of the goals out of nothing but had the winning of the game when poor finishing, of his left and right foot, let him down. I would like to see more of Mc Cumiskey as he looked sharp when he came on.
At least we are still there and after having played most of the football over the hour, a draw is quite disappointing. Our defence needs to tighten up or changes in personel are needed. Hope Lynch's injury isn't too bad. Our forwards can be as good as any forward line on their day and showed glimpses of this. A more constant attacking game will see us through next week.
Quote from: Orior on May 08, 2007, 01:22:59 PM
If Down have managed to keep Benny Coulter out of the bookies, then they might just sneak it.
Cavan 2-10 Down 3-8
The Down defence should not take too much stick. Cavan forwards are always good at running at you, and most defences find it difficult to cope with that. If Down can cut off the supply at midfield then they might just nick the replay.
Not a bad prediction, young Orior.
downs full backline was cruelly exposed today, there will have to be changes there next week or we will be in trouble. i thought all down subs did well when they came on and all should start next week. hard luck on mickey for the goal, he had a great game up to that. was surprised that cavan took johnson off, he was really coming into it. ref awarded summit like 28 frees to cavan and 12 to down.
should be intresting next week, hopefully it is in newry. hard to know which way it will go.
Wsa Benny that good ?
Sexton scored the two goals and hardly got a mention.
Murtagh was man who took responsibility ( twice) in closing stages.
Dan Gordon did lots of good stuff.
Carr is agood link man - brought others into game.
RTE say replay next Sunday at Newry.
What a load of keight the Down full back line were.
Come on Cavan!!!
Inept,ill-disciplined,laughable defending. If any of the 6 Down defenders played like that for their clubs,they would be dropped. I have seen under 14s display more awareness and tactical nous. The management cannot shirk responsibility for this debacle. Despite being a fan of Gordons i have to disagree with comments about him, he had an awful game and apart from one great catch at the end contributed little. We were cleaned out in the middle of the fiekd all day, yet Mickey continued to direct his kick-outs there. There must be changes in the full back line prior to the replay are our season is over,which would be a pity because there is potential which to date has been badly trained and managed
neutral opinion both defences terrible,easy to slate down not winning a game in the league doubt verymuch cavan would have did any better.hard see either team going any further.think cole would have start in the corner next week though he did score 2 points mccartan and mcguigan were useless the experiment of rooney at full back didnt work either.think mccomiskey should be worth a shout next week from what he showed, hughes was terrible added to the fact i backed him score 1st goal.carr got a bit of a slating earlier but though his link play was very good despite some wayward shooting.sexton was also very industerious.cavans terrible defence wasnt helped by the reluctance of the half forwards to track the attack minded half backs of down.would definately start lyng next week in some capacity and why johnstone was taken off ill never know
This comical match bordered on the farce.
I wouldn't fault Cavan too much at all to be honest. The best available defence we have at the moment was out there and they tried their best, but they're just not up to it wihtout a decent full back. Better tactics than leaving Benny one on one all the time will have to be sorted though.
I was actually pleased with how Cavan refused to die. We dominated the second half and although we undermined ourselves by leaking naive, schoolboy scores any time we let the ball past halfway, we still had the lion's share of the ball and possibly deserved the bit of fortune with the goal. If McCabe had played the posssession game in the last few minutes instead of trying to thread a pass through a narrow gap, we'd have won this game simple as that.
We've a bit of spirit and a much better attitude than recent years and that in itself is good to see.
McCabe was a colossus today but how in the hell is Mulvey as unfit as all that? We did well enough around the middle all day I think, if Walsh and Sean Brady come in from the start next week along with Lyng - he's a real rouser is Lyng, great to have him back - then we still have a chance. Really have to think up something to plug our pantomime defence though and I'm not sure there's too much we can do to be honest. Hopefully if Down score 3-8 next week, we'll score 3-9.
Not going anywhere in the Ulster scheme of things obviously but it'd be good to get more games and hang on as long as we can.
The minors, meanwhile, epiromise everything that is endemically wrong in Cavan football. We produce good footballers, a match for most, who simply cannot produce on the big day. Any team kicking 16 wides simply isn't right upstairs in the psychology department, how come other teams always seem to have calm and composed attackers who maximise the scoring return from their opportunities. The seniors have the same problem it's runing right through all our county teams, ridiculous to see, it's like we've the market cornered on producing chokers.
Shocked how heavy Mulvey looked,
He just wasnt fit to get around the pitch after Dan Gordon and was huffing and blowing all day.
McCabe rolled back the years,Great performance.Where would we be without him?
I thought Hannon actually done well on Coulter,as well as can be expected when one on one,
we need to withdraw a forward or two infront of him the next day and cut off the supply and turn it into a defensive game.
Forde got roasted today first by Aidan Carr then by Ronan Sexton who scored their 3rd goal.
Thought Ronan Flanagan was very good,possibely Cavans best performer alongside McCabe.
Pierson scored 3 but must have missed 6 or 7
Jelly scored one or two but missed 3 or 4.
Larry was brilliant for first 25 minutes,ran out of steam,but still busted himself to try and force something near the end.Gave it his all.
Disappointed in Gunner,Thought he would be fit to curtail Coulter a bit better.although he improved when moved off him.
Cahill got it hard marking the speedy Danny Hughes but was solid.
McKeever didnt impact the game that much.
Disappointed in Cullivan.
As for the minors
Desperate performance by a woeful team
Oisin Minagh outstanding,
Rory Dunne done well,but hes not a full back,he got skinned a couple of times because hes not a natural defender,But other than that i thought he was good.
the small number 2 from Lurgan was roasted.
Thomas Reily done well i thought,Daniel Graham was ok
Very disappointed in Barry Watters.
James McEnroe was non existant
Adrian Cole tried hard and was probably our best player
disappointed in Martin Dunne and McKiernan
Conor Smith done well
Mark Cunningham scored some great points and is a lovely footballer,
But hes no sharpshooter im afraid
Eugene Keating looks a class act.
Michael O Reily of shercock should have been on much earlier
David Givney the number 20 wasted a glorious goal chance near the end.
Worst Minor team in 5 years.
Diabolical stuff.
5iveTimes, get your priorities right ;D ;D ;D
I see in the programme the UMFC match between Down and Monaghan is listed for next sunday in Crossmaglen, due to leaving cert commitments. Is this match likely to be refixed to preceed the replay on sunday? I'd imagine this would be the most logical decision and would make for another good double header!
dont want you Down lads and ladies(for you Caitlin) feeling left out :D ;)
My Analysis on Down
McVeigh made an awful balls for that goal.Kickouts good though
The Full Back line was diabolical.All 3 were very poor.
why in gods name was Martin Cole not in there?
Ronan Murtagh was outstanding,hes a lovely footballer
John Clarke got roasted by Larry Reily,
Martin Cole was very good when he came on.
Dan Gordon was outstanding,Probably the man of the match in my opinion,Covered every blade of grass,Fielding was majestic.
Jack Lynch battled well with McCabe but probably came out the loser in the battle,although he done well for his first championship game.
Aidan Carr,roasted Forde in First half,anonymous in the second.
Ronan Sexton, two lovely goals,classy footballer.
Daniel Hughes,i was expecting more from him,I rate him very highly,Didnt take on Martin Cahill at all,when i thought he might have the speed on him.
Packie Downey,done well in a slightly withdrawn role leaving Coulter isolated up front,Good performance in his champ debut.
Benny Coulter,i seen he was named man of the match on the Sunday Game,he took his goal very well and contributed 2 very good points also,but he also missed 2 or 3 relatively easy chances.He was good dont get me wrong,but how the Sunday Game experts thought he was better than Dan Gordon is beyond me.
Paul McComiskey kicked a marvelous score and was very lively when he came on,id say hes a probable starter for Down the next day
Well, from a Down point of view, a good day out and we would have settled for a win and draw if truth be told.
Fair play to Seanie Devlin's young fella for his free taking and the captain Digney is a James Colgan type captain- will the Monaghan game be the warm-up at Newry ?It was listed for Cross on Saturday but surely sense will prevail with the Ulster Council...but then again!
The Seniors stepped up a gear and I have a different view than most posters. We know that the defence is makeshift- that's why Ross was man enough to ask Grant back- but I saw a lot of honest endeavour. Mc Guigan was unbelievably niave to allow Jason inside him twice in the first half- the basic rule of defending is to stay goalside -but rather than respond to some 'supporters' and haul him off, Ross reassured him and he had a good second half. Rooney was a good leader but is light and did do the Keystone bit a couple of times- he now knows championship needs 70 minutes concentration. Daniel is limited but he's the corner-back for these games- all hands/knees/elbows and forwards hate it.Rony Murtagh was a strong contender for MOM- no cramp problems for him-Grant was a good link man and marked their play-maker Mc Keever well while Clarkey was off the pace and a brave and correct decision to replace him with Cole( suggest this came over the ear-piece!)who is our top defender.
Dan was excellent- Pangurban,cannot agrree with you at all- he may have lost possession a couple of times but he got through serious work, caught some great ball and remember his partner is a division 3 player.Jackie spoiled McCabe and probably worth another start although Paul Murphy was excellent. Sexton confirmed amallon's predictions- hungry and reads Benny perfectly.Aidan Carr looks the part in every aspect bar confidence- if he played with some more conviction he could lead the line like Greg used to-but he needs to believe in himself to lift the performance.James Mc Govern was average- a lot of work but Kearney looked a lot livelier. Benny back to his best, Packie solid if unspectacular and Daniel has got his bad game out of the system.The management was excellent- all 4 substitutions worked out and were based on careful analysis rather than head-staggers.I would start Cole, move Daniel to RHF and start Mc Comiskey. Mickey should retain the number one shirt- one mistake but VG kick-outs- but Benny won't get the same space so Daniel, Packy and Mc Comiskey must make use of the extra space that will be there.5ive Times- get the daytrip to Athens- we need all supporters in Newry!
This was probably the strangest championship match in Ulster since...well, the last time Cavan played Down at Breffni. Mickey McVeigh was tremendous until the late error almost cost us the game. Both full back lines were obviously poor, although Declan Rooney did pretty well, given that it was his debut, he was captain and he has no experience at no 3. Dan McCartan competed for everything, but missed a few balls as well, and Kevin McGuigan struggled badly. He is good going forward, but his positional sense was wayward. Brendan Grant was reasonable, with a few mistakes, and John Clarke could not cope with Larry Reilly at all. Martin Cole must start the replay, and Paul Murphy is also very much in the frame. Ronan Murtagh was just about MoM, as he restricted Reilly, pushed forward at every opportunity and scored two outstanding points, including the equaliser.
Midfield was another odd sector, as Jackie Lynch is limited but managed to largely blot out Dermot McCabe while he was on. Murphy looks as though he could do the job there, although he is a runner rather than a fielder. However, Dan Gordon caught almost everything and had his best game for years - probably since the 2003 drawn Ulster final.
James McGovern worked hard but probably did not contribute enough, while Ronan Sexton worked even harder, got two goals and very nearly a third. Both played very deep, leaving Aidan Carr to cover a lot of ground. He actually won the ball surprisingly well, passed accurately but could not score.
Danny Hughes also won the ball well but had an off-day otherwise. Packy Downey took a long time to get into the game, but finished it reasonably well. Benny was the Benny we all love, but he will be very tightly marked next week.
Stephen Kearney looked promising enough, but Paul McComiskey was outstanding. Although he should be kept on the bench because of his age, he is a fantastic prospect.
Anything could happen in the replay, including another Down defensive collapse, but there are grounds for at least some hope there at long last. The use of our subs was a big plus, and we also have players returning to fitness. We have a long way to go, but we are on the road.
An entertaining game if anything. Sometimes it's nice to watch a game where defences are not really adept at defending in numbers. Serious amount of mistakes, fumbles and misplaced balls though. Maybe nerves? At times Down looked like they'd finally translated the
1999/2005 minor form into senior but within a minute of scoring something sublime, their defence was running around like men who'd been repeatedly banged over the head with Mourne rock.
Gordon showed glimpses of old fashioned midfield play and even managed to spray the ball around intelligently when given room. Surely Clarke just had a bad day. Maybe his had wasn't in it and that's why Carr hauled him off instead of switching. He's a better footballer than that.
That young McComiskey is some talent. Apart from his point, he won a great ball, coming from the blind side of the Cavan defender, to set up a point soon after. You may have another Linden on your hands.
Although he was well marked, you still feel that there's more in Benny Coulter in championship football. He can field the ball and turn as good as Frank McGuigan but seems to play on the edge of the game. CHF?
From the INDO, I mostly agree with this report...
Cavan 2-11
Down 3-8
Ulster SFC
FORGET dour defensive dog-fights and that legendary blanket defence.
The Ulster SFC started not with the expected whimper but with a five-goal bang yesterday that certainly sent folks home sweating and looking forward to the sequel in Newry next Sunday.
Everything, right down to the late Dermot McCabe free that looked to have stolen Cavan's victory, followed by Ronan Murtagh's heroic injury-time equaliser, defied all the provincial stereotypes.
Cynics will inevitably point out that this sort of frenetic goal-fest is exactly why neither side is likely to dispute this year's Ulster final, and certainly, some of the defending and marking, especially from Cavan, was lamentable at times.
But no one in the small 13,505 crowd was complaining as they trailed home exhilarated and exhausted by a preliminary round rollercoaster which, though far from perfect, certainly whetted the summer's appetite.
That a draw was a fair result was the consensus, even though the home side showed more resilience by recovering three times after conceding goals, a predilection they're going to have to rapidly divest themselves of if they want to go further.
But recover they did, in brave style, most crucially when they went three points down with as many minutes remaining. No goal, therefore, was as important as the close-range one conjured up by substitute Jonathon Crowe on the stroke of official time.
And when McCabe then stood up 30 seconds later and coolly lobbed over a 35m free into the stiff breeze, the home fans went apoplectic.
Particularly
That McCabe provided the potential winner was particularly fitting. The free was won by 19-year-old wingback Ronan Flanagan but his 30-year-old teammate stood head and shoulders over everyone, bar Benny Coulter, yesterday.
But Down were equally thrilled and relieved that they hung tough enough to scramble a draw.
Their injury-time saviours were equally appropriate; two-goal Ronan Sexton finding wing-back Ronan Murtagh, a converted forward, who showed nerves of steel to score his second point of the day to earn the Mourne's reprieve.
What preceded the thrilling climax was as unpredictable as Britney Spears before rehab.
Down were still reeling from Daniel Hughes missing an open goal chance when Benny Coulter, for the first of many times, shook off Paul Brady to lay on Sexton's first goal for a two-point lead after eight minutes.
Jason O'Reilly tried too hard when he then had a great goal chance, which Kevin McGuigan blocked but Cavan, led by Anthony Ford, McCabe and two points from fast-starting Larry Reilly, recovered their composure quickly to pull a point clear.
Down were actually scoreless for 12 minutes but their second score was another goal, this time a brilliant one-two between Aidan Carr (son of manager Ross) and Coulter which the latter dispatched brilliantly.
Early substitute Martin Cole, a wing-back who roamed freely and scored scored two points before half-time, also played a key role until Michael Lyng came off the bench to mark him.
Cavan 'keeper James Reilly then had to make a great low save after Dan Gordon was allowed waltz through unmarked from midfield and at the other end Cavan got the break they needed when Jason O'Reilly and Seanie Johnston combined to set up Larry Reilly for his punched goal.
Down led by just a point (2-3 to 1-5) at half-time but had only taken half of their goal chances.
Cavan were guiltier of even wilder shooting from further out, with 9 to 6 wides by the break, but their big worry was one which has bamboozled many a team: how to stop the brilliant Coulter?
Michael Hannon provided the solution. Coulter was far less accurate and dangerous once he was switched onto him after 21 minutes and, under pressure, shot three wides in the second half.
But the Mayobridge genius was still on hand just four minutes after the re-start to pick up a ball from Packie Downey and feed Sexton for his second goal.
After a third body blow Cavan might have caved but they didn't. Jason O'Reilly got two great frees and subs like Lyng, Crowe and Sean Brady were central, the latter breaking a 14-minute spell without a score with a particularly inspirational point after 62 minutes.
Cavan only had two second-half wides compared to Down's eight but wasted numerous other chances, especially given that they got twice as many second-half frees (11-5).
Manager Donal Keoghan dropped Mark McKeever back to sweeper but when he moved forward again in the dying minutes he was also very influential in creating scoring chances and when Crowe got his he did not miss.
SCORERS - Cavan: L Reilly 1-2, J Crowe 1-0, G Pierson 0-3 (1f), D McCabe and J O'Reilly 0-2 (2f) each, S Johnston and S Brady 0-1 each. Down: R Sexton 2-0, B Coulter 1-1, R Murtagh and M Cole 0-2 each, D Gordon, J McGovern and P McComiskey 0-1 each.
TEAMS AND PLAYER RATINGS
CAVAN - J Reilly 7; P Brady 5. E O'Reilly 6, M Cahill 6; M Hannon 8, A Ford 6, R Flanagan 6; D McCabe 9, L Mulvey 5; R Cullivan 6, M McKeever 6, L Reilly 7; J O'Reilly 6, G Pierson 8, S Johnston 7. Subs: M Lyng 8 for Cullivan (42 mins), C Mackey 7 for Johnston (50), N Walsh 6 for Mulvey (55), S Brady 7 for Pierson ( 61), J Crowe 7 for Brady (63).
DOWN - M McVeigh 8; D McCartan 7, D Rooney 6, K McGuigan 6; R Murtagh 8, B Grant 8, J Clarke 5; D Gordan 7, J Lynch 6; J McGovern 6, A Carr 7, R Sexton 7; D Hughes 6, P Downey 7, B Coulter 9. Subs: M Cole 8 for Clarke (19 mins), S Kearney 6 for McGovern (48), P Murphy 8 for Lynch (52), P McComiskey 7 for Hughes (60).
REF - D Fahy (Longford).
Well no one gave us an earthly going into this game so to come away with a draw and some flashes of good football has to be on the plus side . Our frailties at the back have been well flagged long before yesterday and we all knew that Cavan's forwards were going to have a field day . Brolly made the point in GL that Down have always been an attacking team that try to outscore teams rather than out defend them and Ross kind of made the same point in the IN today , stating that Down would never win low scoring games . That said definite tightening up needed for the next day big time .
Midfield , Big Dan had a stormer , won plenty of ball and his distribution was class . Jackie Lynch can be proud of his Championship debut as he let no one down and Murphy did very well when he came on .
Going forward we looked sharp and took our chances well , We missed chances for points and overplayed it looking for goals a few times but I don't think we can be to critical of the forward lines .
Just like to say I thought Murtagh was our MOTM , seems to have time on the ball when others dont , looks for his pass instead of the aimless punt forward and knocks over the injury time point . I get the impression that he is really proud to wear the Jersey . Brilliant performance .
Fair enough performance. Yeah the backs weren't good in general but just remember that this is the start of a rebuilding project. You can't expect great things but its alot more promising than the fayre we have been dished up in previous years and there is a pride to wear the Down jersey in those players. A very disapointing crowd attended, suppose you can't blame alot of people as it was on TV but at the same time Cavan isn't THAT far away.
There is still alot to do and there will be blips and mistakes but Rome wasn't built in a day! And as someone stated earlier, any team will have trouble with Cavan forwards as they are flying machines. I was more encouraged by that performance yesterday than any in the previous few years and you can see that Ross and DJ are trying to get it right so lets give them a chance
Well, I was just happy to get a draw in the end. I think management have to take a large portion of the blame. Heres why....
We all knew for Months we were playing Down and that Coulter would be FF. We know he has given us serious problems there in the last 3 times we played them. To counter this we play Forde at FB all through the league, where he is beaten in every game. We don't try any other player, we don't look at bringing in a new player to the panel. We Gaynor, a potential solution to FB (and a definite solution to Ctr Half Back) at home even though he is mad to play for Cavan. We drop him apparently cos he took a holiday after a long season of club football. So for the Down game we throw Paul Brady into the FB position on Coulter having never even tried him there in any game (not even the challenge game against Longford last w'end). 10 minutes in Coulter has scored a goal, made a goal and created 2/3 other chances. Then we put Hannon on him. Now we may not have the men to mark an on form Coulter but we didn't even look at doing anything about it tactically. If McCabe hadn't won midfield for us we would have been hammered.
We also knew that the Down half back line were essentially a set of forwards intent on running forward. Where was the famous keoghan work ethic as they were allowed to run all day and tracking didn't happen. Mulvey in the middle looked like he put a stone on since the 1st McKenna cup game, what the hell has he being doing since then???? He was less mobile than McCabe.
The subs were baffling. Bringing on Mackey???? He is simply lacking in brain power I'm afraid as well as any strength. He had zero impact. We are lucky we have a 2nd chance and hopefully Cavan will learn more than Down. Best for Cavan was McCabe who was outstanding. Flanagan played well at Ctr Half when moved there. Pierson showed well but was wastefull. Johnstone likewise. I though Cahill was good in 2nd half and that Lyng has more brains in his big toe than half of the rest of the team. Miller is way too sleepy and needs to get of his line quicker, although his kicks were good and he did make one excellent save. The big positive is that against the wind we did battle hard and through sheer effort forced our way back into the game. Big dissapointments were McKeever, Mulvey, Forde. A lot of average performances from the likes of Jason, Cullivanand Brady.
Next week Sean Brady and Lyng (if capable of 70 mins) need to start. I'd put Brady in the middle instead of Mulvey as he is much more mobile. Crowe could also start to add some size to the half back line. We need to double up on Coulter as he is really the only goal threat (he either scores them or sets them up). We need to stop the situation where there is a down man on Coulters shoulder at high speed every time a ball goes in. We have to pray that McCabe can do the same thing as last week.
The minors were very poor. They look poorly trained and lacking in any game plan. Best was Thomais Reilly and Keating when he came on. Our FF line was atrocious whcih wasn't helped by the fact that we decided not to put in any ball to them. Work rate was poor with numerous players just not bothering to track back. Jody Clarke needs replacing as that team was capable of much more and totally underperfomed yet again. Surely there is someone that has some clue about football that we can get in there to change this loosing streak that is present in all our underage teams.
Its great to still be in the Championship at this stage!!
Some great performances going forward yesterday however as already stated watching our full back line was liking watching a car crash at times. The TV replays last night confirmed how poor they performed. Letting a corner forward inside you once is bad enough but twice!!!! That was the most inexperienced full back line Down have ever fielded. One championship game between them before yesterday and oh how it showed.
Felt sorry for Mickey ...apart from the slip he was solid.
Murtagh produced his club form for Down and will get even better with a game like that under his belt...got us out of jail big time. Agree with most of what has been said above....however couple of questions
Will our full back line learn enough from this game to improve for Sunday?
Will the Marshes be ready?
Was Ross expecting a cold snap from the Arctic yesterday? ???
i might take some stick for this, and it seems i am bucking the fairly optimistic trend of other posts, but i thought yesterday was very poor. maybe i listened too intently to mssrs brolly and o'rourke in their review, but i think down the line we are still some way off the pace for an ulster title. generally we dont seem to have developed any game plan post POR's era, certainly defensively we looked as naive as ever.....personnel may have been the issue but lets have a plan, a system, something that they all know and can work with; sometimes a gameplan can overshadow personnel deficiencies and thats what i think we need right now.
beating cavan is one thing, but getting thru the next stages, maybe making an ulster winning team etc we look a long way off that. should we be happy with our lot? ie beating cavan and winning a champ'ship match is a good thing; or should we look further into the summer?? my feeling would be the latter! and i dont harbour hopes for it being a long one.
a number of personnel changes for the next day pls! i was about to and in fact did review each player but its not really fair to do that. my team for next week as follows:
1. another keeper
2. m cole
3. b grant
4. d mccartan
5. r murtagh
6. d rooney
7. p murphy
8. b coulter
9. d gordan
10. s kearney
11. a carr
12. r sexton
13. p mccomiskey
14. d hughes
15. j clarke as an an extra defender! take him back into the defence
Excellent post there myles wouldn't disagree with a word of that analysis. There's burgeoning evidence that the brains trust on the line, well, they can't be trusted. Some baffling decisions in our last few big games.
I remember Keith Fannin playing in a sweeper role against Westmeath in the league two years ago. Hes at in front of Dessie Dolan and absolutely cleaned up and blotted that particular star player out of the game. I think we need to deploy some sort of similar tactic. I know the ball will be kicked high into Benny as opposed to low into the corners as it generally is for Dolan but we simply have to find someway of stopping the ball getting through to him and have extra numbers there for any time that it does.
If we learn a few lessons from this game and start some of the subs who came on, hopefully they're fit enough, then I believe we still have a chance of winning this game.
It's a strighforward fight between who can win the most at midfield and supply forwards who clearly have the beating of their defenders. We need another big display from McCabe in this regard and to give him more support than Mulvey provided. I'd select the following team for the next day:
1. Miller
2. Cahill
3. Hannon
4. Gunner (sweeper?)
5. Forde/Fannin
6. Flanagan
7. Crowe
8. McCabe
9. Walsh
10. Sean Brady
11. Lyng
12. Fannin/Forde
13. Jelly
14. Pierson
15. Jayo
That's off the top of me head now but just thinking of size around the middle and half forwards with the requisite attacking skills and ability to track back on the Down marauding half back line...
Larry and Mulvey to come on with about 20 to go when they can make an impact instead of starting and running out of steam. Mickey Brennan would be a good ball-carrying option for late in the game as well.
I'd leave Mackey in the stand and name it after him like they did in Limerick, that's the place for him.
As a neutral it was a strange but entertaining game
The old adage of take your points & the goals will come certainly doesnt apply to either team
Throughout the game, if either side got a sniff of a goal they were going for it
Both full back lines were roasted, but you would have to question why they were so exposed by their half back lines & how on earth there was so much time around the middle to casually pass balls in
Down will probably be the more disappointed with the result as the game was in the bag until the howler by Mc Veigh, who had been solid up until that point
I'm with GY on the lack of optimism. Micky has to go, even without the howler he kicked the ball down the middle all day when it was obvious that the two cavan statues needed moving around. I'd agree with the covering defender but could GY tell me who's going to win hard ball in that two man FF line? And who's going to do the running for Benny at MF when he runs out of puff after 20 mins?
Marshes it is then
Monday, May 14, 2007
By John Campbell
Down manager Ross Carr was left with mixed emotions following his side's last gasp rescue mission at Kingspan Breffni Park yesterday - but perhaps the most overriding of these was relief.
He had watched his side bang in two first half goals and go on to open up a three point gap at one stage in the second half before being reined in by a rare show of character from Cavan.
And Carr's realistic assessment of the game will obviously influence his strategy for next Sunday's replay.
"I honestly thought that we did not put enough pressure on the ball, particularly in the first half. Cavan were shooting from what I thought were not the most sensible of angles and although we got three goals, we were still unable to close out the game. But I'm happy enough to have got the draw and obviously we're looking forward to hosting a big championship at Newry now," said Carr.
Man of the match Brendan Coulter, whose imprint was very much in evidence throughout, believes that Down can lift their game further for the renewal of rivalry with the Breffni men.
"I have been talking to some of the Newry Shamrocks boys and they tell me the pitch at Pairc Esler is superb. We have played all Ireland qualifying matches in Newry but this will be a first major Ulster championship tie for us there for some time," added Coulter, whose 20th minute goal was the end product of a spectacular slice of his own towering individual talent.
A Cavan manager Donal Keogan, who had seen his side come tantalisingly close to copper-fastening a quarter final meeting with Monaghan after Jonathan Crowe had fired in his 59th minute goal, was philosophical at the finish.
"Obviously we would have taken the win but Down had opened up a gap in the second half and going into the last ten minutes the game could have gone either way. It's good to be still in the championship and we will take lessons from this contest into next Sunday's game," said Keogan.
Cavan's veteran midfield ace Dermot McCabe agreed that whereas in the past Cavan's side might have succumbed to late pressure, on this occasion they dug deep to chisel out the draw.
"To be honest, with seven or eight minutes to go, we would have been very happy to finish level. We had created goal chances but had not been able to take them. We tended to play well in patches but for the next game we have to extend the periods of the game in which we are the better team.
"Our priority now must be to stop them creating goal chances. We have to close them down much better. Down are not a bad side by any means and they will feel that they can raise their game again for the next day."
Down forward Daniel Hughes pinpointed the team's character as the chief reason for their survival when the heat was on.
"In championship matches, it's not always fitness that is the crucial element. Players tend to get energy late in games - I don't quite know from where - but it happened to us on this occasion and we're not complaining. I had been substituted before the finish but I was delighted with the way Paul McCumiskey went on and scored a great point that helped and then when Ronan Murtagh got the equaliser I thought it was what we deserved."
passedit, in my opinion in variably there isnt hard ball to win in the FF line. hughes and mccomiskey would be mobile enough to create space for themselves, and hopefuly some one on one situations.....key would be the support play, and i think at times yes'day our support play was o'standing.
re: benny; the beauty of giving him autonomy is that he can roam as and where he wanted to. if it meant moving into FF for ten min spells for breathers (i really doubt he wouldnt be able to last out the field) then so be it....i wouldnt have a problem with that.
I wouldn't be too concerned about changing things up front , if things aren't working on the day we have players to come in that can make an impact . The backs is a different story and I think Cole and Murphy should start the next day . It has been said before that POR was too loyal to the players and that he left them on longer than he should of , What's the feeling about Ross and DJ on this front ? John Clarke got called ashore early doors maybe Danny could of come off a bit sooner but overall I thought the substitutions worked well .
Was at the match yesterday and although not the most skillful game ever, it was thoroughly entertaining.
On the negative side, both defensses were terrible, quite a few easy points sent wide and a bit of diving creeping in! and Dan Gordon not releasing the ball early enough or when he did the pass not going where it should.
On the positive side, I thought that Benny(bar the easy misses), Sexton, Carr and Murtagh had good enough games, for Cavan, Larry O'Reilly and McCabe had decent games as well.
Is it just me or do the Cavan team look like a rugby team, quite a few big lads out there!!!
Also thought that Cole and Cumiskey (sic) played well when they came on.
GDA
Theres a few Cavan lads that were a bit too "big" out there.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 14, 2007, 12:56:18 PM
GDA
Theres a few Cavan lads that were a bit too "big" out there.
Aye yer man Larry O'Reilly for one, he got the ball and ran through players, but still he seemed decent enough, himself and Murtagh were at it most of the game!
Also Dan Gordon seemed to get a bit bolshy towards the end of the match.
Hard was prob the wrong word GY. If you employ a two man FF line you're inviting a sweeper in front of it, therefore you have to go over as well as around him, I just dont see those two lads winning much ball above their heads. I'd definitely start Mc Cumiskey though, he's a good 'un.
whatever about the Cavan Lads being a bit too big, either someone threw Benny a minor jersey by mistake or he isnt in peak physical condition either. Well as he did yesterday, I thought he was less effective the longer the game went on and wasn't all to do with the sweeper. The bad wides late on were tired efforts.
Edit he could certainly go 70 mins on Mulvey though. I could go 70 minutes on that tube.
fair points passedit, and enough has been made of the legend of benny (off the pitch) whether myth or elements of reality. i stil think that we would get much more out of having our best player out in the middle of the field. look at the improvement in ronan murtagh simply for having him more involved in play and getting him on the ball....i think the same would suit benny.
conditioning would follow...he is cute enough and experienced enough to know when to lung burst and when to drift quietly into the FF line for 10/15 mins at a time.....it could work wonders.....and would leave the opposition in a quandary to leave a midfielder on him or have a defender pick him up etc....
I thought Jackie Lynch did Ok once he is fit to play I'd give him another go. Agree about keeper - varying kickouts has been a problem for a long time now
Murtagh was excellent yesterday but wouldnt count on seeing similar transformation in Benny if moved out. He has loads of talent and linking up with unsung Ronan Sexton was excellent yesterday . He just seems to go missing at certain times - whether through fitness or not I dont know. I hate to see him hanging in behind marker hoping bounce will beat the defender. Looked very one footed yesterday too.
McCabe roasted that Lynch fella, don't know how anyone can think Lynch had a decent game
Ballyhaise, re the minors:
I thought Minagh was far and away our best player. Dunne did well too for a midfielder playing full back.
Graham was desperate, a bit of the Mulvey "busting lads" syndrome about him again yesterday.
Watters was poor but he started out of position.
"Conor Smith done well" - disagree completely. To the casual observer, maybe, but if you knew how good he can be you'd be disgusted yesterday.
He scored 7-19 for Virginia en route to the AI, including 3-1 in the final. Was clumsy and afraid to shoot (after some poor first half wides) yesterday
Was ther a fitness test on Keating? The lad was well fit to start
Biggest disappointment was Martin Dunne, huge let-down.
Was wondering who'd be the first to bring up the Gaynor thing!!! If only John Tierney was fit to be a target man, or Trevor Crowe assisted McCabe at midfield... If only!
Forde was poor alright, as was McKeever, especially when they dragged him back for a while.
I hear Brolly was acting the bollix as usual at half time giving both teams a lot of stick...did anyone catch what he said....
He is trying to be the Eammon Dunphy of Gaelic football . Tosser .
Brolly said that there were plenty of lads on both teams that weren't the relations of county players! Apparently he was down amongst the masses in Breffni for the first half....pity he wasnt lynched
QuoteI hear Brolly was acting the bollix as usual at half time giving both teams a lot of stick...did anyone catch what he said....
He reckoned most of the players weren't the first cousin of a county player!! Lyster challenged him a little on this although Brolly reckoned what was the point of him being there if he didn't say it as he saw it!!
O'Rourke then made a comment which made me wonder which of the other pair he was agreeing with. He said they were the best players in their counties so then they were county players but if your were comparing them to the lads that would be on view in August and Septemebr that was another story!!
QuoteBrolly said that there were plenty of lads on both teams that weren't the relations of county players!
he clearly wasn't familiar with the interbreeding found in the remote reaches of Mourne!
This might have been controversial, but his basic point was that the defences of both teams were not on par with top teams nowadays.
Goldenyears has named our best available team for replay, agree wholeheartedly with the possible exception of Benny at mid-field, i dont think hes good enough to play there, lacks mobility and fitness. His defensive is spot on
I can't understand why anyone would want to move Benny out the field, he's so dangerous up there. Cavan were that worried about him they let rest of Down players walse true unchallenged, ie Grant, Cole, Gordon, Murtagh. We didn't exploit this enough. Also we were very slack on the break ball yesterday and there was a severe lack of crunching tackles.
Heard today that newry got the ok for sunday. It'll be good to see ulster championship football at home again
what is it with Down county players from Ballyholland and the outside of the boot?
Its not enough to score- ye have to do it with a flourish???
Oh aye and don't get me started on the "dummy" before he took the final score- I've seen that somewhere else too...
Now i'm torn. Take a couple of goals and a couple of useful individual performances away, and that was a shocking performance. And if we've learned anything about Down in recent years, it's that we don't learn from our mistakes, and when replays come around, we get punished because while the opposition have been watching match videos and making mental notes, we've been beating drums about how the boys in red and black are back. Yet for some reason, I'm full of conviction that Down won't be beaten on Sunday. And I can't explain why. Gut instinct, that's all.
Changes are necessary. I agree with GY, we need to bring a man back. You'll find though that we've both been saying that for the best part of three years on here, so I don't expect it'll be any different this weekend. The truth though is that we've the forwards to take Cavan on 5 vs 6, but we don't have the defence to take them on 6 vs 6. It's simple mathematics.
Calls to start McComiskey are nothing short of ridiculous. He has the potential to become our most destructive forward since Mickey Linden, but he's only 19 and he's built like a 19 year old. He'll be at his best coming on against tired legs for this year at least. It is an impossible step for teenager to go from Division III club football to 70 minutes of destructive Championship hitting - even allowing for the fact that Cavan are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to destructive Championship hitting.
Cole has to start, which 99% of Down followers would have wanted last weekend anyway. Murphy has to be in with a shout. If Cavan are to continue with their midfield pairing this weekend, it could be the best tactic of all to put Murph and Gordon together and just let them run their opponents into the ground. I'd also like to see Kearney at 11. Carr was okay on Sunday, but the Mitchels man looks in super shape, and I don't see any of the Cavan defence keeping with him for workrate.
Based on what I saw on Sunday, big Packie should get back where he belongs - behind McCartan and Burns in the pecking order.
1. B Connell - I found it strange big Mickey's kickouts got praise from lots of quarters. I'd say it must be easy to practice them when you use the same kickout every single time. He's probably the best keeper I've ever seen, but it's time to move him on.
2. M Cole - Pace and a bit of elegance. The kind of player you need around Seanie Johnston.
3. B Grant - He had a fair enough game at CHB, but I don't want to ever see Rooney at full-back again, and it's the wrong time of year to be trying someone new out there.
4. D McCartan - Got stronger as the game went on and deserves another shot. If Dee Rafferty is 75 % fit though, I'd have him in instead.
5. R Murtagh - His best outing in a Championship game.
6. D Rooney - I reckon Rooney would be better as a forward, but by all accounts he was useful here in the league. If McKeever plays as a shield in front of his defence, he should be a good man in there protecting space.
7. K McGuigan - The Shamrocks man would be a whole lot happier out here. He can actually play a bit.
8. P Murphy - Did more in 20 minutes than big Jackie did in 50, so he has to stay in.
9. D Gordon - More of the same this week Dan, except do what you do for Loughinisland and sling it over from distance.
10. R Sexton - Very useful game on Sunday. Tireless, and links well with Coulter.
11. S Kearney - It's a bit harsh on Carr. But some players are much more comfortable up the middle than the wings, including Carr and Kearney, and I reckon Stevie has the edge at the moment.
12. J Clarke - His best position. Should Cavan go nuts with an 8 man defence, he is one those capable of shooting from distance.
13. D Hughes - Danny won't play that badly again.
14. B Coulter - Leave him and Danny up there on their own.
15. J McGovern - Not as a conventional forward, but coming back to support his defence. If Hughes and Coulter are getting swamped, take him back in as a conventional forward. This lad actually has the fitness and skill to carry off the role. I couldn't say if he has the intelligence to carry it off, but the enthusiasm is there.
As us Down wans are dominating this debate I think we should discuss Cavan a bit and recognise their role in an open game .Firstly, Breffni really is a magnificent setting and we could have done with a bigger support.Secondly the Publicans, supporters and guards were very hospitable.Cavan town is a true GAA town and they would respect our tradition more than most.Thirdly, the game was largely free from gamesmanship- I didn't see the 'dive' from one of the Reillys but there was hardly a dirty tackle and I saw nothing off the ball.Can you imagine Tyrone, Armagh or even Donegal defenders allowing Benny/Daniel/Mc Cumiskey that time? Paul Brady is a great athlete and while it was big ask ,neither he nor Hannon(?) resorted to dirt against Benny.Fourthly it was great to see a big man like Mc Cabe doing what he does best and clearly enjoying it.While he may have blatantly pushed Adrian Scullion for two of the goals in 2004 he is an honest big hallion who belongs to a bygone era .Fifthly they have a helluva player in Ronan Flanagan and I look forward to the Marshes.
Wobbler's team is pretty sound but I would stick with Mickey, agree that there is still a place for Mc Guigan and possibly Clarke. The second midfield position is a challenge. Jackie is a poor man's Mc Cabe( the calf as opposed to the Bull) but Paul Murphy is small ( 5 11 according to the programme) and as the VG photo in today's IN showed, Jackie was all over the Bull like a rash. I would give Jackie a start but Murphy is an excellent option if things are tight ( which they will be).First home USFC game since Aontroim in 99 I believe.
Finally, great to get the team on Thursday, see two managers make rational and inspirational decisions and recognise that love them or hate them, the meeja animal has to be fed- it's good for players to see that their managers are showing real leadership.Up Down
Hear Hear Caitlin, Cavan deserve credit for their effort and sporting behaviour, a great football county with a proud tradition like ourselves. A good anti-dote to the behavior of the Johny come latelys from Armagh and Tyrone who believe they invented football
Wobblers team reads ok imo, grant needs dropped, the man has not been training with the county team since the mckenna cup and he showed on sunday that he isnt fit! full back would kill him! Darren Cunningham is the man for the full back job, he doesnt stand out for his play in possession but his man won't score and a couple of weeks training for grant at county level rather than mayobridge level and he'll be fit again! i say this as he gave away easy frees, his shot was woeful and he was slow to react to the break ball! 4 players for down yesterday performed (r.murtagh, dan gordan, ronan sexton and benny)along with a number of subs, mccomiskey can't start next week though, too young and too small, wobblers right in saying that packie isnt good enough but mc comiskey will not play as well as his debut! change the full back line and have paul murphy on instead of jack lynch and we'll be flying!
Down need to be more tactically aware.
When cavan withdrew McKeever from the forward line to play as the sweeper it in effect gave Cavan 7 defenders, which did not give our boys alot of space, and in doing so gave the Cavan forwards alot of room, as there was only five of them operating in the Down defence, something which was seen when Lyng made the break for the second goal!!
What down need to do is sacrafice McGovern for John Clarke, and play the An Ríocht man as the extra defender, cause he is one of the players in our panel who can defend a bit(I know he had a stinker on Sunday, but he will improve), and be comfortable on the ball at the same time.
What time is the game at on sunday and is the pitch in the town?
4pm and the pitch is on the edge of the town. Follow the signs for Warrenpoint and you can't miss it. Even better you'd be better off parking in the town and following the crowds it not that far of a walk.
o.k cheers is there a game before it?
Not that I know of. Probably giving people a chance to watch Tyrone Fermanagh on the telly.
My Down 15 for Sunday:
1. M.McVeigh - Id keep faith with Mickey. His shot stopping was pretty good on Sunday past despite that one glitch. His kickouts get great distance and although they were mostly down the middle Id expect him to vary them come this Sunday.
2.M.Cole - He has got bags of pace and can mark tightly. When needed he can also attack. Has the fitness and speed to carry off both roles.
3. D.McCartan - All this talk of him being on the county panel just because of his name is bullshit. He showed in the Sigerson Cup this year what he can do at full back. He'll track his marker all day and although he is not very conventional, forwards will not like him on their tail. Also, he is good at sweeping up.
4. B.Grant - Grant has experience at this level which makes it easier for him to adapt. Can put in a solid hours work when needed. Will have the know how to do this position.
5. R.Murtagh - An excellent move by Ross and DJ converting him to wing back. Will run all day and possesses the finished product - scores. He suprised me by his marking abilities. He's going to be Down's most important player this year bar Benny.
6.D.Rooney - Played well here during the NFL. Need him in for the breaking ball. He may have a very important role to play if McKeever drops back.
7. P.Murphy - Murphy seems to be a very confident player and when given his chance on Sunday he responded well. He could be an option on the wing for Mickey's kickouts. He needs to start.
8. D.Gordon - On Sunday he looked a cut above at times. He's a great fielder and is extremely dangerous going forward. As Wobbler says it would be great to see him put them over from distance.
9. C.McCrickard - He is a lot fitter than Lynch and a better all round player. He has the engine to last the full length and his passing ability could be useful for the inside forwards.
10. A.Carr - Thought he played well on Sunday. His passing is top notch and he is always looking to get other players involved. Down need a couple of scores from him though and he needs to deliver big time.
11.S.Kearney - Kearney is a player who may not be able to cut it against the Tyrones or Armaghs but he can definitely do a job on Sunday. He can drop back to field kickouts as he has height or he can drive forward. Can take a score from any angle. He is a joy to watch on the ball. Has great pace and technique and a varied passing range.
12. R.Sexton - He is in good form and will give 110% every time. Can operate in attacking or defensive situations. He poses a threat going forward but he may be needed more this week in a deeper role.
13. D.Hughes - Poor game on Sunday but can turn it on when needed. He has the potential to rip Cavan's defence to shreads.
14. P.Downey - Has to start. He made a lot of encouraging runs on Sunday and done the simple things right. If anybody knows Packie Downey then they will know that he can turn on the style when needed. Once he gets a sniff of goal he is predatory.
15. B.Coulter - All this talk of moving Benny out the field is ridiculous. This Cavan full back line is shite and Benny showed what he can do last week. Needs to opt for points more often but Id expect him to have a hey day in Newry with a lot more space.
Subs - McComiskey needs to be introduced in the 2nd half. Id have have him on for at least 15 minutes as he is bound to grab a score or two and his pace will be too much for a tiring Cavan defence. McGovern and Clarke are also options. If Carr isnt scoring and Downey or Kearney arent producing the goods then McGovern and Clarke should be introduced. Burns is also an option here.Lynch can also be utilised if the middle third is going Cavan's way.
QuoteCalls to start McComiskey are nothing short of ridiculous. He has the potential to become our most destructive forward since Mickey Linden, but he's only 19 and he's built like a 19 year old.
Would that be the Mickey Linden who made his championship debut at 19 and whose club had just been promoted from division three that year?
I would humbly suggest that carrying an entire team in div 3 (and dealing with the inevitable 'close' attention) is as good a grounding for intercounty football as swanning around in, a frankly not very demanding division one, with more decent players to take the weight off. Additionally Mc comiskey has a season of sigerson football behind him as well. I could see your point if he was a central player but he's well able for the position he should be picked in and as the cliche goes if you're good enough you're old enough.
What is the new capacity of the marshes? Is there any chance that with this game not being on telly that it could be close to a full house?
The Marshes handled Down v Tyrone in the qualifiers a couple of years ago with a smaller stand , I think it will be able to handle this game ok . Only 13.500 at Breffeni are the Cavan posters expecting a big crowd to travel ? Hope there is a big crowd and a bit of atmosphere .
Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2007, 08:58:10 PM
1. B Connell - I found it strange big Mickey's kickouts got praise from lots of quarters. I'd say it must be easy to practice them when you use the same kickout every single time. He's probably the best keeper I've ever seen, but it's time to move him on.
2. M Cole - Pace and a bit of elegance. The kind of player you need around Seanie Johnston.
3. B Grant - He had a fair enough game at CHB, but I don't want to ever see Rooney at full-back again, and it's the wrong time of year to be trying someone new out there.
4. D McCartan - Got stronger as the game went on and deserves another shot. If Dee Rafferty is 75 % fit though, I'd have him in instead.
5. R Murtagh - His best outing in a Championship game.
6. D Rooney - I reckon Rooney would be better as a forward, but by all accounts he was useful here in the league. If McKeever plays as a shield in front of his defence, he should be a good man in there protecting space.
7. K McGuigan - The Shamrocks man would be a whole lot happier out here. He can actually play a bit.
8. P Murphy - Did more in 20 minutes than big Jackie did in 50, so he has to stay in.
9. D Gordon - More of the same this week Dan, except do what you do for Loughinisland and sling it over from distance.
10. R Sexton - Very useful game on Sunday. Tireless, and links well with Coulter.
11. S Kearney - It's a bit harsh on Carr. But some players are much more comfortable up the middle than the wings, including Carr and Kearney, and I reckon Stevie has the edge at the moment.
12. J Clarke - His best position. Should Cavan go nuts with an 8 man defence, he is one those capable of shooting from distance.
13. D Hughes - Danny won't play that badly again.
14. B Coulter - Leave him and Danny up there on their own.
15. J McGovern - Not as a conventional forward, but coming back to support his defence. If Hughes and Coulter are getting swamped, take him back in as a conventional forward. This lad actually has the fitness and skill to carry off the role. I couldn't say if he has the intelligence to carry it off, but the enthusiasm is there.
Wobbler this is an interesting selection and I can see sense with it but I'd have to question a few selections;
If we are going to use a corner forward in a third mid-fielder/extra defender role then surely the obvious choice is Paul Murphy. He is made for this job, can read the game well, sweep up, start attacks good fielder and confident on the ball, but just not physically strong or big enough to play the mid field role at county level.
Jack Lynch while unspectecular on Sunday shackled McCabe well and his first experience of championship football will stand to him, he'll only get better.
I have been critical of Aidan Carr in the past but I was impressed with his vision and passing on Sunday and although I feel he is still shy on break ball I think he also deserves another chance and that he'll improve.
Kearney looks like a footballer but I'm not convinced he his. Can't see him mixing it and winning 50/50 balls but I might be tempted to start him instead of McGovern to give us more pace on the half forward line.
Thoughts??
It looks like the game has a 4.15 throw in due to the Down Hurlers in action in Casement at 1.45. This is fine but to fix the Minor game for 7.30pm in Crossmaglen is an absolute joke and piss take to GAA followers from Down - how much money do they want? Down should boycott this fixture and demand it be a 2.45 start in Newry instead.
I have stated here before several times that Luke Howard should be on the County set up. For Bryansford he has been outstanding so far this season and won a Sigerson with the rest of the boys. He would fill in at number 2 or 4 no problem, even after we beat Castlewellan last week several 'town' supporters couldnt believe he wasnt on the Panel at least, Ross had him at Minor level so he knows his strengths.
Pictures of Marshes set up on the Official Down Site , Looks well .
What is the pitch going to be like for Sunday? The new sod was only laid a few weeks ago I hear, it looks good from the Dublin road. I'd imagine it could cut up very easily as the root might not have had time to knit in properly.
QuoteWould that be the Mickey Linden who made his championship debut at 19 and whose club had just been promoted from division three that year?
I would humbly suggest that carrying an entire team in div 3 (and dealing with the inevitable 'close' attention) is as good a grounding for intercounty football as swanning around in, a frankly not very demanding division one, with more decent players to take the weight off. Additionally Mc comiskey has a season of sigerson football behind him as well. I could see your point if he was a central player but he's well able for the position he should be picked in and as the cliche goes if you're good enough you're old enough.
Apples and pears passedit. When Mickey Linden was 19, weights hadn't even been invented. County teams started training 3 weeks before the Championship. Defences didn't have tactics. As long as you were fit to take a punch in the head every once in a while, you were old enough.
As for your humble suggestion that Division III football might be a better grounding than Division I football, well words escape me. I suppose beating six cones and an inflatable goalkeeper would be even better preparation again?
Young Cumisky (sp) started on the QUB Sigerson team ahead of McGovern and the big full forward never made the poly team. Sigerson football is often more physical than intercounty football. Cumisky is well fit for The ulster championship... not something i could say for a lot of players who started the game on sunday on both sides.
A Brolly wannabe .
Beat me to it Uladh, sigerson has much more relevance than club football, however the (secondary) point I was making about club football is that being the sole focus of the opposition's 'game plan' tends to toughen you up (mentally and physically) PDQ.
Wobbler are you suggesting that while county football has moved on, club football remains in 1982?
Mc Comiskey may never be the footballer Mickey turned out to be but he is more experienced and battle hardened than Mickey was when he broke onto the scene at the same age. and I think you'll find he's no stranger to the weights room either.
Paul is constantly training in the gym at The Burrendale Hotel. Although being from East Down it is a wonder he got a look in.
There is a curtain raiser before the game at 2.30pm.
Quotehe is an honest big hallion who belongs to a bygone era
An era where midfielders could win aerial ball, spray perfect low passes into a small full forward line and kick two frees from 50 odd yards?
Could we not hold championshiop replays midweek under floodlights.
Quote from: The Bottom Brick on May 15, 2007, 01:30:21 PM
Quotehe is an honest big hallion who belongs to a bygone era
An era where midfielders could win aerial ball, spray perfect low passes into a small full forward line and kick two frees from 50 odd yards?
Bit touchy there Brick, I think it was meant as a compliment!
QuoteI suppose beating six cones and an inflatable goalkeeper would be even better preparation again?
:D
Nothing more to add to the comments on the match. Apart from a well done to Jack Lynch who held his own.
Spirit, Passedit - it's pretty obvious McComiskey is eating the weights these days. But as he's only a teenager, he's going to be a few years behind older players in terms of muscle development. More importantly though, he'd be up against lads who are used to using their extra muscle to their advantage, and not up against Division III club players who don't have the speed to catch him, let alone the strength to hold him up.
Passedit - you are festering one of the oldest myths of football, that the further down the leagues you go, the more hatchet men you meet. Over the past couple of years my club has been involved in Divisions I and II, and one of the biggest difference between the tiers is that when an average first division defender lines a player up, he consistently nails him with pace and power, while an average second division player misses the target as often that he hits it. Division I defences also tend to work as units, and when a player is propelled back, he's swamped. Hence Division I football is physically more demanding.
True, you see some bad challenges in lower league football, but the real nasty stuff happens up the top - immovable objects meeting unstoppable forces and all that.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on May 15, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
There is a curtain raiser before the game at 2.30pm.
There is a two-bit contest between a pair of sides from the back arse of nowhere so the GAA can justify leaving the price of admission the same with no concesssion for students, I take it...
QuotePassedit - you are festering one of the oldest myths of football, that the further down the leagues you go, the more hatchet men you meet. Over the past couple of years my club has been involved in Divisions I and II, and one of the biggest difference between the tiers is that when an average first division defender lines a player up, he consistently nails him with pace and power, while an average second division player misses the target as often that he hits it. Division I defences also tend to work as units, and when a player is propelled back, he's swamped. Hence Division I football is physically more demanding.
I harbour no illusions about standards and or toughness in Down club football. What I'm saying is that when you get a talent like Mc Comiskey playing at this level, understandably his club will try to play everything through him and equally understandably the opposition will figure that if he's stopped his teams stopped. The result is that the delivery to him is usually fairly predictable which reduces the impact of his speed and he will generally have at least two players on him when he gets the ball. Then when he gets it he'll be expected work miracles. Thus he passes through a lot more traffic than he would if playing higher up the leagues. Think of it like a test cricketer who gets a sunday leaguer to chuck the ball at him from ten yards to improve his reflexes.
It's a young man's game. A GAA players best years window is narrowing to 20-27 and there's no merit in holding up a talent as precocious as Cumiskey,especially given the players being proposed in front of him. Physically, he's well able and he has the x factor so scarce in the game at the minute. The best players were always thrown in at 18/19 and they learn on their feet.
Uladh may be a cretin of the lowest order but he's 100% spot on. McComiskey showed enough in those 15 mins to suggest is should be one of the top/starting 6 forwards in that Down panel. In the same way that young McGourty should start for Antrim and Martin Clarke would have been for Down, if you've got it, use it.
If that Mc Comiskey lad was from Cavan he would be starting but for his own good he should be eased into Inter-County football.
There were three division 3 players on the finishing Down 15, McComiskey who is a complete class act, simple as that, Packie Downey and Kearney although apparantley he has yet to turn out for Mitchels this year. Says alot about Down at the minute though but lets get behind them, its the start of major rebuilding so give them a chance
Quote from: ONeill on May 15, 2007, 02:46:12 PM
Uladh may be a cretin of the lowest order but he's 100% spot on.
You know you love me really. well, you're afraid of me but that's a love of sorts...
Does anyone know why Cavan got to retake a free they had hit wide in the minor game? Everyone around me thought it was because the Down goalie had shouted when the free taker was on his run up. I've never seen this rule enforced before, is there such a rule? I know you can't leap about in front of the free taker.
I thought the minors were guilty of a lot of time wasting in the last few minutes, this isn't good for the future of the game.
Yeah didn't quite know why that re-take was ordered either although the Down lads didn't protest much. Puzzling alright.
As for...
Quote from: amallon on May 15, 2007, 03:12:10 PM
I thought the minors were guilty of a lot of time wasting in the last few minutes, this isn't good for the future of the game.
...Cavan's minors were guilty of alot of opportunity-wasting and this isn't good for their game either. At least we keep an infamous tradition alive though... ::)
New Keeper
M Cole
D McCartan
B Grant
R Murtagh
D Rooney
J McGovern
J Lynch
D Gordon
S Kearney
A Carr
R Sexton
A defender - Dee rafferty is well equipped for the sweeping job if fit. Only success in sligo last year.
B Coulter
P McComiskey
The Free was retaken in the minor game because the Down Goalkeeper was shouting stuff trying to put the freetaker off.
Some referees allow this,some frown upon it.
bc , Cant see Ross dropping Danny Hughes , It will click for him the next day .
The curtain raiser will be the Quarter-Final of the Ulster Senior Ladies Football championship between Tyrone and Donegal, 2.30pm throw-in. Didn't mention it in my original post as you don't know who logs on here!
Whats the story with Down/Monaghan minor game surely it should have been the curtain raiser the ulster council are making a big error there.
Apparently this minor game cant be played before the senior match as it isnt a scheduled fixtured and must be at a neutral venue! I am sure the Down/Monaghan lads would prefer to play before the replay as their would be more atmosphere etc.
But at the end of the day it is all about money and we have to accept this.
Down should boycott this fixture, if it was Tyrone or Armagh in this scenario they wouldnt stand for it.
Lets be sensible here.
Monaghan minors have already given up home advantage so that the game isn't played during their lads' exams. you could hardly expect them to agree to go to the marshes to play in front of a partisan full house.
why would down seniors have home advantage if they win and down minors not?
eh?
I understand what overdabar is saying....if Down beat Cavan on Sunday they will play Monaghan at home in the qtr finals.....why do the minors not have the same advantage?
Unless of course quarter finals are played at a neutral venue...which I doubt given the row over Ballybofey.
if down had of beat cavan in the seniors they had home game against monaghan, does it not work the same for the minors or are they all a neutral venue
Bit of chat on HS about Benny being injured , anyone here anything on this ?
Quote from: downredblack on May 16, 2007, 12:48:35 PM
Bit of chat on HS about Benny being injured , anyone here anything on this ?
Usual kids messing on Hoganstand id say seen it on the cavan site this morning.
No word of Benny being injured last night unless some primary school kid put the boot in him today! ;D
Benny was coaching at the school out behind us here all day and he seemed to be moving alright.
Did anyone see the muppets trying to start a row outside Brefni on Sunday. I came along and saw a man in his 50's throw a traffic cone out of the way of the bus he was on. The cone was threw with a bit of anger in it towards a couple of pished young bucks who were standing getting burgers from a muck truck. A bit of a scuffle started. I didn't hang around to see the outcome as I wanted to beat the traffic. The young fellas were all in Down jersies and the bus looked like one of the Highway mans from Laitroim (wouldn't be 100% on this though). Anyone know what was going on?
QuoteLets be sensible here.
Monaghan minors have already given up home advantage so that the game isn't played during their lads' exams. you could hardly expect them to agree to go to the marshes to play in front of a partisan full house.
It must be remembered that the Down boys are also doing A Levels and GCSE's. Why do the Northern teams have to play games during their exams, some have started already, yet the Southern lads don't? Not very fair is it?
Quote from: amallon on May 16, 2007, 04:55:31 PM
Did anyone see the muppets trying to start a row outside Brefni on Sunday. I came along and saw a man in his 50's throw a traffic cone out of the way of the bus he was on. The cone was threw with a bit of anger in it towards a couple of pished young bucks who were standing getting burgers from a muck truck. A bit of a scuffle started. I didn't hang around to see the outcome as I wanted to beat the traffic. The young fellas were all in Down jersies and the bus looked like one of the Highway mans from Laitroim (wouldn't be 100% on this though). Anyone know what was going on?
It's a wonder you weren't in the middle of it mallon, you Bridge boys love twisting. ;)
Quote from: amallon on May 16, 2007, 04:55:31 PM
Did anyone see the muppets trying to start a row outside Brefni on Sunday. I came along and saw a man in his 50's throw a traffic cone out of the way of the bus he was on. The cone was threw with a bit of anger in it towards a couple of pished young bucks who were standing getting burgers from a muck truck. A bit of a scuffle started. I didn't hang around to see the outcome as I wanted to beat the traffic. The young fellas were all in Down jersies and the bus looked like one of the Highway mans from Laitroim (wouldn't be 100% on this though). Anyone know what was going on?
I saw the above incident. It happened because the down lads were waiting to get onto the bus but the older man (from cavan i think) was looking the bus to move becasue it was blocking his car. He then jumped onto the bus and either hit or was to close to hitting the driver of the bus. This was done without any real provocation. There was then a standoff as such between the two parties, with the older man close to having a heart attack he was so worked up.
I for one don't like to see incidents like this but would have to say that the older man brought much of the hassle on himself and showed absolutley no patience at all. In fact I would say he was very lucky the down lads were civil enough with no physical retaliation to him throwing the cone about several times.
Heard the Cavan team - I'm in shock.
No Gunner, Jelly or Cullivan. Along with Fannin that's four of our bet players fit and rarin' to go and starting on the bench.
Team
Reilly
Cahill
Chesty
hannon
flanagan
forde
crowe
McCabe
Galligan (!!!!!!!!)
McKeever
Lyng
S Brady
Jason
Larry
Pierson
Not sure about Galligan he will have the legs to chase players back anyway but won't catch much. Crowe will add a bit of power and Lyng bring a bit of class. If there is anyone fit to open a defence its him. Larry will probably move out to wing half forward with mckeever going back to cover in front of Benny.
I heard fannin went drinking the week before the game thats why he isn't getting a game but thats just a rumour.
Quote from: The Bottom Brick on May 16, 2007, 11:33:58 PM
Heard the Cavan team - I'm in shock.
No Gunner, Jelly or Cullivan. Along with Fannin that's four of our bet players fit and rarin' to go and starting on the bench.
Team
Reilly
Cahill
Chesty
hannon
flanagan
forde
crowe
McCabe
Galligan (!!!!!!!!)
McKeever
Lyng
S Brady
Jason
Larry
Pierson
I am not too shocked by the team named and indeed I am quite impressed that the management have taken strong action in the areas we suffered in last week. We were killed by half backs running forward with people like Larry Reilly and Mulvey unable to follow them. To counter they have put in S brady, Galligan and Lyng. There is now a work ethic in the half forward line and I'd be suprised to see any free running Down Half backs. OK, Gallligan is untried at midfield but at least he can run and he is tall enough to compete in there. P Brady had a poor game last week as did Cullivan and although I rate both highly, they can have no complaints about being dropped. Crowe will add some more size to the half back line. I think we can win this game now as I feel this team will stop a lot of what Down did last week without effecting us as an attacking team - I say that assuming we put someone in front of Coulter as well as behind him!!
i think its gonna be a blanket defence for this one. IF we stop Down getting goals they won't win.
v surprised that grimley hasnt had a bigger influence in defensive strategy a la armagh blanket defence.
The Cavan team in the independant is the same as Bricks except McKeever is named af FF and Larry at Wing Half. That would be an interesting change.
Armagh really didn't play with a blanket defence. they certainly played at times as cavan did late in the game with a particular man back. i think their defence and midfield just had a bigger appetite for work and were more able to make effective tackles. tactics can't replicate that.
Yeah was just going to say that the team I got had McKeever had FF as well but didn't post it after leading everyone astray last week! Interesting selection if genuine, I wouldn't see him winning much high ball so obviously we're hoping to put in front of him and let him run on to it and use his strength to lay it off to other lads running through?
He's definitely as strong as an ox is McKeever and maybe we're also targetting the inexperienced Rooney with this ploy, or trying to drag him out the field to expose two corner backs who didn't exactly cover themselves in glory last weekend? Very, very interesting selection, it could go bad, it could go great, that is if it's not a ruse and it's the way we actually line out.
I'm also pleased to see some sort of surgery at midfield and half forward, it was desperately required. I assume Walsh would have started ahead of Galligan but as usual, he's clearly not fit so Galligan ahead of Mulvey who can't run, simple as. Mulvey still an option for a tight last few minutes if we need a bit of brute force ignorance around the scraps in the middle.
Am somewhat surprised at no Gunner, Fannin, or Jelly. Then again, Gunner has flopped in his last two big games with us, Fannin was poor against Roscommon as well and must have gone off the rails entirely since then, whereas Jelly's omission is definitely one I wouldn't agree with. Again though, he's a great option to bring on against tired legs and the last thing Down defenders would want to see springing from the bench with murder in his eyes.
[Edit: On Cullivan, I gather he had some decent league games for us, but any time I saw him in either league, U21 or last weekend, he's been a no show and I'm wondering what the fuss is about? He won no primary ball in any of those games, passed poorly and his free-taking was atrocious. I expect a rap on the knuckles ;D from Ballyahise man...]
We've a decent subs bench and that's a good thing, reasonably happy with first XV and believe we can win this game. We were comfortably the better side in the second half last week and were constantly undone by the jitters in the back line on the fewer occasions Down did get it up there. If we stem that particualr flow and handle Coulter better, we have the attack to screw scores out of that creaking Down back line.
Head on the block, Cavan by 2.
Not knowing a whole pile about some of the cavan lads who have come into and gone out of the team, i'd hope that the changes would be aimed at achieving the following: 1) Obviously, extra cover in front of the down full forward line, more particularly on coulter. 2) stop the down wing backs sauntering forward unopposed (should play two wing backs at 10 & 12). 3) stop dan gordan getting a run to catch kickouts and get onto the resulting breaks. 4) better conditioned forwards who can sustain an attacking threat for 70 minutes or better use of the subs to achieve this. 5) create a middle third of sustained pressure to delay the ball getting into coulter. 6) move the ball out of defence much faster (that means kick it).
Lyng and Sean Brady are there to bring some workrate to the half forward line. Cullivan found the pace too tough on his championhip debut and Larry was too unfit to track back (hence, the Down half back line got four points from play in the last 50 minutes).
Crowe to add some strength and stop lads coming through, I definitely wouldnt agree with this one, Brady would be one of my first names on the team sheet even if he has had 2 poor games in a row
I was stunned by Galligan, but when I think about it who else is there who can stay with Gordon? Mulvey can't , Walsh was atrocious when he came on, Brennan must be forgotten about...
Dropping Jelly is very harsh. He showed very well and kicked a good point under pressure (one point from play in 50 minutes was more than Jason got in 70, plus Jayo scuffed 3 goal chances).
I have a feeling Larry will start close to goal...
There's a good argument to be made for saying that we're starting with four (Gunner, Jelly, Cullivan, Fannin) of our best 9/10 players on the bench. Doesn't make much sense to me...
Hopefully there's a method in this madness and they're not just making it up as they go along
McKeever will be used to play in front of Coulter.
As for Cullivan he has being one of our better players all year (even in Croker),and was unlucky to be subbed when he was on Sunday,there were one or two others who could've being taken off before him (even McKeever).Also he only turned 18 last Nov and has plenty of time for improvement which I've no doubt he will and will eventually end up playing either CHF or FF.
Its time now for Galligan to show us what hes worth, hopefully he willl.Reckon Gunner must be injured for Keoghan not to start him.
i seen McKeever play full forward for the County Minors and he was very effective there.He may not be as quick as most corner or full forwards,but he was, Extremely intelligent in his run making,
It could be Sean Brady dropping in front of Coulter either.
Maniac
about Ray Cullivan,he was poor against Down but in most games i seen him in the league he was very good.
Hes a magnificant fielder of the ball,Very strong and normaly a very good passer of the ball.
Hes a good freetaker,misses some but scores most.
I think he would be a great option at full forward at the minute to be honest due to his aerial ability,
He will eventually grow to be one of the best Half Forwards in the country i think and as one of the lads said hes only 18/19.
Thought he was our best man in Croker aswell.
Delighted with Ciaran Galligan playing,I dont think Dan Gordon will have half the influence he had in the first game now.
Galligan is athletic enough to stay with him wherever he goes,and he will contest the aerial battlesbetter in which Mulvey got cleaned out in last Sunday.
still have grave worries about that full back line though.
Half back line with Crowe in there now looks solid.
Is Michael Walsh playing for the Bridge tomorrow night ?
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2007, 12:22:14 PM
Maniac
about Ray Cullivan,he was poor against Down but in most games i seen him in the league he was very good.
Hes a magnificant fielder of the ball,Very strong and normaly a very good passer of the ball.
Hes a good freetaker,misses some but scores most.
I think he would be a great option at full forward at the minute to be honest due to his aerial ability,
He will eventually grow to be one of the best Half Forwards in the country i think and as one of the lads said hes only 18/19.
Thought he was our best man in Croker aswell.
Aye, one thing I did forget to put into my post is that it is strange he hasn't been tried at FF. I still have reservations about him being started and depended on so soon in his intercounty career and it might be his age and nerves that's making him play below par in some of the games I've seen, because the general opinion on him still seems very favourable so I'll go along with that even though I'm not seeing it myself as yet.
But if he has good fielding ability (what height is he, 5.11?) and clearly he's strong physically, then he might be an option at FF? The only thing is he's quite slow so might not win any races for possession if the ball comes in low in front of him?
I remember John Tierney was being groomed for this role under Eamon Coleman and he was shaping up into one serious option at no.14 before the inevitable happened and some part of his body gave up the ghost. Tierney would be quicker off the mark though than Cullivan I'd say...
Tierney would be quicker off the mark than Cullivan,but even thought he was a strong man he wouldnt be as physically strong as Cullivan or as good as ball winner, Cullivan is an absolute tank.
Hes about 5'11 id say maybe 6ft,But he makes up for that because of his magnificant jumping ability.
He would be a handful for any Full back big or small,because ive seen him tear apart good players 3 and 4 inches bigger than him.
If things are going badly against Down,wouldnt be suprised to see him brought in at FF so they can put the ball in high.
The more I think about it, how the f**k are they puting Crowe ahead of Brady?
Brady was deemed the defender most capable of marking Coulter last week, now he's not in the team??
Remember, bar the McKenna Cup, all Johnny Crowe has done is get substituted after SIXTEEN minutes v Antrim and get a flukey goal last Sunday.
He's strong, but so was Mulvey...
Jelly got rode too, big time. I'd much prefer Jelly than Jason at the minute. You'll see Sean Brady and McKeever dropping back which will mean the Cavan forwards have to work extra hard to stop Down building from the back. And who are those forwards?
Larry - not fit for 70 minutes
Jason - not fit for 70 minutes
Lyng - not for for 70 minutes
and Pierson, who is fit.
Disaster waiting to happen, pure and simple.
id have dropped Forde before Gunner.
Gunner played a bit of football when moved to wing half back.
Forde done nothing.
i think Crowe gives us a bit of power at wing half back,hes also being playing well for Crosserlough,so......
i cant understand dropping Jelly.
Jelly contributes alot more Jayo.
Full Forward line of
Jelly McKeever and Pierson would be very strong.
Ballyhaise, McKeever won't play full forward in a million years, he'll be dropping back like he did in the second half last week
Club form is irrelevant. Sure Brennan's flying for Drumalee and must have featured in 15 league games for Cavan in the last 2 years - Crowe has done nothing in a Cavan jersey at any level, ever.
Same as we did last year in Casement, we're starting a foward line that isn't near fit.
Another thing, we had two players selected for the Ulster Railway Cup team six months ago - both are flying fit and both start on the bench this Sunday. Only in Cavan...
I hear Galligan's a bit of a woman as well... Saw him against wexford when he was hauled of and he didn't look like a boy that could handle Dan Gordon
Keogan and co are making it up as they go along...
Here's a question: If Murtagh's last point had've gone wide, and Cavan were out again this weekend, would there be four changes in the team? Not a fuckin hope.
I would assume Michael Walsh will be playing with us tomorrow night. He was training with the Bridge last night.
The surface in Newry is supposed to be excellent.
Well I think they are right dropping Johnson instead of Jason. Jason didn't scroe from play but he was the only player in the FF line who looked like beating his man when the ball was in hand. When Jayo does that there is a chance of goals, and goals win games. Seanie Johnson showed well at times but his finishing was poor. He hasn't been taking players on and beating them either. Pierson hasn't been beating players either but all Pierson needs is a half yard and he can kick them over if he is on form. Johnstone can count himself unlucky but I think it was the right decision.
Crowe did well against Ros when he came on and he did well last week when he came on. I think he deserves a chance, although if he doesn't take it he will need to be replaced by Brady early. Galligan is the only option we have for the middle that is athletic enough to keep with downs pacy runners. Maybe Brennan could've done the same but Galligan has some height to at least break ball on Down.
I am normally critical of the Keoghan management but I think at least we can say they seen some of the problems and are making strong decisions to rectify them. I hope they bring McKeever back to sweep in front of the FB line. I am more confident of victory this weekend than I was last weekend, so heres hoping.
It's clear that defending Coulter before the ball comes into him, when he has it in hand, and when the Down half backs and midfielders are attacking through the middle, are the three things we need to do better at to win this game.
I don't think there's much more we can do about the defensive personnel or positioning, so we have to concentrate on stopping the supply and stopping Down attacking from deep.
I think the management have taken encouraging steps in this regard with Galligan, Lyng, Crowe, Sean Brady on the side and others to come in like Gunner and Fannin. A hard working half back/forward line will restrict Down's key attacking weapon from deep which leaves us with Coulter to marshall. If we only allow him 50-60% of the ball he got last Sunday then I think we can beat Down with the forwards we have, their own measures to thwart our forwards notwithstanding because obviously they'll be working on their own revisions in that regard.
And let's not forget that in all the criticism of the Cavan team and management, that we shouldn't overlook the balls, spirit and determination in this brave if limited team. If one major stride was taken in 2007 it is this much improved attitude and never say die spirit. Down beat us last year because when it came down to it the belief or determination wasn't there to push on and win the game, despite outplaying them at times. This year's result was different because the attitude was, simple as.
Down team will be named tonight after training.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 17, 2007, 02:59:09 PM
Well I think they are right dropping Johnson instead of Jason. Jason didn't scroe from play but he was the only player in the FF line who looked like beating his man when the ball was in hand. When Jayo does that there is a chance of goals, and goals win games. Seanie Johnson showed well at times but his finishing was poor. He hasn't been taking players on and beating them either. Pierson hasn't been beating players either but all Pierson needs is a half yard and he can kick them over if he is on form. Johnstone can count himself unlucky but I think it was the right decision.
You've got that spot on there Myles,last Sunday Jason was the only one of them which tried to take on his man.Johnston was out in front and won a lot of ball but wasn't capable of beating his man,done more twisting and turning than was a holy terror and going nowwhere at the same time.
Agree with you about the spirit in the team.
On the other thing...
Quoteand others to come in like Gunner and Fannin.
Not much point having those boys on the bench if you ask me. Call me crazy, but I think you should have your best 15 out at all times in the championship, unless there is a mammoth difference in form.
I mean hypothetically, Fannin is vastly superior to say Brennan, and unless Fannin was playing abysmal stuf and Brennan flying, the former should always start.
Same with the Crowe/Brady thing. Brady at 60% is still better than Crowe at 90.
If Crowe was any good he'd have made a minor or Under 21 team, starred in the senior championship or actually ever started a league or championship match and played well for Cavan.
The only league OR championship match the lad has ever started, he lasted 16 minutes.
Form is temporary, class is permanent.
QuoteYou've got that spot on there Myles,last Sunday Jason was the only one of them which tried to take on his man.Johnston was out in front and won a lot of ball but wasn't capable of beating his man,done more twisting and turning than was a holy terror and going nowwhere at the same time.
In my opinion Jason has lost his pace. He got a couple of balls, hardly had a shot (bar the one where he kicked the ground) and that was about it. Took a couple of handy frees to get some figures beside his name.For all his "taking on his man" he din't score from play and missed the three vital goal chances.
Watched the video again last night - Jason touched the ball from play twice in the second half (35 minutes). Jelly had kicked a point in the second half before he was substiuted - he also set up a goal for Larry don't forget.
Nothing against Jayo, but he hasn't the legs anymore. Better to bring him on for Larry with 25 to go and hopefully get us a goal.
Quote from: The Bottom Brick on May 17, 2007, 03:52:08 PM
QuoteYou've got that spot on there Myles,last Sunday Jason was the only one of them which tried to take on his man.Johnston was out in front and won a lot of ball but wasn't capable of beating his man,done more twisting and turning than was a holy terror and going nowwhere at the same time.
In my opinion Jason has lost his pace. He got a couple of balls, hardly had a shot (bar the one where he kicked the ground) and that was about it. Took a couple of handy frees to get some figures beside his name.For all his "taking on his man" he din't score from play and missed the three vital goal chances.
Watched the video again last night - Jason touched the ball from play twice in the second half (35 minutes). Jelly had kicked a point in the second half before he was substiuted - he also set up a goal for Larry don't forget.
Nothing against Jayo, but he hasn't the legs anymore. Better to bring him on for Larry with 25 to go and hopefully get us a goal.
Brick - Think you'll find that jason was the architect of the goal in that he turned his man, beat him and then flicked it inside to Johnson, who then did the simplest part by flicking onto Larry. Fair is fair now!!
Quote from: The Bottom Brick on May 17, 2007, 03:47:39 PM
Not much point having those boys on the bench if you ask me. Call me crazy, but I think you should have your best 15 out at all times in the championship, unless there is a mammoth difference in form.
I mean hypothetically, Fannin is vastly superior to say Brennan, and unless Fannin was playing abysmal stuf and Brennan flying, the former should always start.
Same with the Crowe/Brady thing. Brady at 60% is still better than Crowe at 90.
If Crowe was any good he'd have made a minor or Under 21 team, starred in the senior championship or actually ever started a league or championship match and played well for Cavan.
The only league OR championship match the lad has ever started, he lasted 16 minutes.
Form is temporary, class is permanent.
saw this in the Irish News report from last Monday:
"Jonathan Crowe, an enforced substitution due to an
injury to Paul Brady collected a pass from Dermot McCabe. His shot was low, but it lacked conviction."
Might explain Gunner's absence perhaps, dunno if it's true...
"Jonathan Crowe, an enforced substitution due to an injury to Paul Brady collected a pass from Dermot McCabe. His shot was low, but it lacked conviction."
well Gunner went off becuase of cramp, if thats all it was then he would be fit to start, maybe he has some other niggle. I like the look of Crowe, he did well on Sun, against Ros and also when he came on against Wexford, I just not sure he should be replacing Brady if indeed Brady is fully fit. At some point in the future Crowe is worth trying at CHB cos Forde is really only fir for HB at this stage.
Lads, Paul Brady or jelly are definitely flying fit, no question of injury at all according to an excellent source.
Maybe there's a method to the madness. I hope so. Down woun't be dropping their two Railway Cup players Sunday anyway...
I hear Galligan's a bit of a woman as well...
Brick, you were tellling us earlier in the week that one of the other midfielders in the panel is a sow for drink. Probably a little bit harsh in the case of lads that are making the effort and are probably close to as good as we have available. Thought does occur to me by times that family of friends of these guys might occasionaly log onto these pages.
Anyway, the positives about Sunday are that Brady and Lyng start, assuming they are nearly fully fit. Agree that picking young Galligan is a serious gamble, seems to be driven by the fact that nothing else has worked at midfield all year. Back line for all intents and purposes un-changed. What really worries me is what looks like a serious lack of cop on on the sidelines manifested in an inability to respond quickly to what was happening on the park-Forde at Full back for god knows how long, Roscommon game-where do you start, and the way we dealt with Benny last Sunday. If Down decide to launch a plan B of some sort next Sunday would worry that we may have worked it out and responded by Wednesday when it's been analysed in the papers.
Crowe-as I recall he did ok in the depths of winter in the McKenna cup, he was unlucky to get sent off against Meath in the first round and lost out on 4 or 5 possible inter county games which is a real pity. Cynics would question whether his total lack of minor and Under 21 is a plus or minus, given our record at county level in those codes. Hopefully he will make something of the impression of some other fellas that had none or very limited experience at minor level-Forde, Jason, Damian O Reilly.
At this stage I'm determined to remain positive. As many have said, anytyhing after promotion would be a bonus. We go up to the Marshes with a 50:50 chance. Winner gets to play Monaghan with two championship games under the belt and three weeks to prepare. Here's hoping.
Anglo, sorry you're right about the Galligan comment, having not seen him play i shouldnt have commented on that, hopefully he'll prove me wrong.
On the other thing, i witnessed it myself and it was obvious when the fella was panting after ten minutes!
QuoteAt this stage I'm determined to remain positive. As many have said, anytyhing after promotion would be a bonus. We go up to the Marshes with a 50:50 chance. Winner gets to play Monaghan with two championship games under the belt and three weeks to prepare. Here's hoping.
I agree. I actually think we'll do the business, and meet an overhyped Monaghan who'll be coming in cold. Then it's a Bradley-less Derry, then Tyrone with a lot of momentum behind us, then Kerry, then... ah if only!
Unchanged team for our boys, which not too many were expecting. At one level, it is a pretty decisive vote of confidence from the management. However, leaving out Martin Cole made little sense in Breffni and none at all in Newry. Kevin McGuigan was reasonable going forward, but, in his primary role as a corner back, did not do enough to keep his place. John Clarke deserves another chance and Jackie Lynch is simply there to block big McCabe and can be expected to be replaced by Paul Murphy when the game opens up. It is hard to believe that so many Down people wanted Paul McComiskey to start. He is a brilliant prospect, and will terrify Cavan coming off the bench, but all the indications are that this is going to be a much more physical encounter in the opening stages. I'm hopeful, rather than overly confident, as long as the substitutions are made at the right time.
Cant believe we are fielding an unchanged side, expected at least 3 defensive changes, particularly Mc Guigan and Rooney in full back line. Think we need to start with Mc Comiskey and Murphy, rather than bring them on when we are chasing the game.
How in fucks name is Monk Cole not starting? If they can't find a place in that defence for him then I really don't know. He has been our best and most consistent defender over the last 3 years. Puzzling to say the least.
I am sure I'll see a few of yiz in McCoys before the game!
had a feeling that he wouldnt change the team, still would be confident of a victory, only time will tell.
(http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/5/may2gal21.jpg)
Ross seems to have a lot of faith in his starting 15. Fair play to him. Id say it will be a similar scenario to last week with Cole, Murphy and McComiskey coming off the bench at some stage. I would have preferred McCrickard in midfield to Lynch though. I saw there was one change to the Minor team with Longstone's Gary Trainor lined out at Number 11. It looks like Clonduff's Paul McPolin is dropped.
It's a brave call from Ross. The substitutions worked last week because the players coming off the bench were generally better players than those who they were replacing.
Martin Cole must be wondering what exactly he has to do to make this team.
Cole was excellent last week and I would have started him. Clarke was dreadful and is a far better player than his performance last week. I think Down will win by 5-6.
That's the spirit Brick. They can say what they like about us Cavan lads, but we were never missing a sense of inveterate optimism. I'm a little bit more hopeful since the replay teams have been named. VERY surprised that Down continuing with their starting line up last Sunday.
On a slightly related topic, O Rourke was absolutely spot on with one piece of analysis last Sunday and that is our apparent obsession with picking blokes to play in defence on the basis of what they can do with the ball in hand. Of our starting back six on Sunday who, apart from MA Hannon, plays in a defending role week in week out for their clubs??????? And then we wonder why teams are waltzing through our defensive line without so much as a finger being laid on them. I suppose this is part of the reason why Rabbitte is such a miss, and it will be a huge call for him to make a fist of it this summer. Now I've never seen the lad play and it's probably too late at this stage but should Sheridan from Mullahoran been given a bit more of a chance. Has the appearance of a county footballer, plays as an out and out defender and was at or around the DCU panel in the Sigerson this year. Oh yes, and by way of lazy stereotyping he is a Mullahoran man so might be versed in the ways of making it a small bit hard for opposing forwards. Maybe one for next year or the qualifiers.
I don't think that the team named in the paper today will be the team we'll see lining out on Sunday!!
I think Ross and DJ are playing a few mind games and the likes of Monk Cole and Murphy will be seen from the start on Sunday. Not so sure we'll see McComiskey or Kearney from the off but the 2 are more than likely to appear at some stage.
An Cloch Scoilte - Part of me hopes you're right, and part of me hopes you're wrong.
The Down team that finished last week's game was stronger, and I'd rather see it start than the team named. But really, if Ross & Co really think this is some of masterplan to deceive the opposition, then their heads are up their holes. When Down line up on Sunday, every Cavan head will turn to see where Benny Coulter is lined out. Who the rest of them are, and where they are standing, won't bother them one iota.
No inside info but I think this team probably will start ( unless we have injuries - announcing same team can be cover for this ).
Cole not being selected is probably harsh but John Clarke should be given another chance - he is one of best 15 players in county.
I dont see that Murphy did enough last day or anytime since his first two or three county games to warrant selection.
Agree re Lyng, Sean Brady but on this point
QuoteCrowe looks like a man made for the championship, big strong lad who can move and break up play when needed
When have you seen him play for the county? In the McKenna Cup where even Mulvey was lording it? When he lasted 16 minutes against Antrim?
This is the bigges gamble of all, more so than Galligan. Mulvey was wiped out last week so we've nothing to lose there. However, Gunner's marker when he was moved out (McGovern) was taken off, but I fear he'll go to two on a newcomer like Crowe...
Just heard Ross on the radio
He says there are 2 areas Down need to improve on
Defending & Scoring
I tell ye, he has nothing to learn - this lad is going to go far :D
Correct 5ive times, but unless I am mistaken that was as a player - not as manager
Quoteespecially for men that are mobile and have a decent bit of strength (see Trevor Crowe a couple of years back)
Trevor (Johhny's first cousin incidentally) had a brilliant league as far as I remember, after the first game against Sligo when he was poor.
He improved with every match and roasted Michael Donnellan alive against Galway, as well as kicking a point from 50 yards plus. Damien Reilly said in the Celt that Trevor kicked that point from further out than most people can hit a golf ball!!
I didn't think he was great in the league, was moved out of centre back very quickly, was reasonable against Down (one brave block at the end stands out) but was skinned by Philip Loughran v Armagh as far as I remember.
Would love to see him back in there though, with another year he's have been brilliant. Someone mentioned a half back line of Gaynor, Crowe and Gunner, imagine...
I hope not, but I fear Crowe's lack of pace will be badly exposed. He has never played a full match in league or championship at any level for Cavan, you can't deny that we're taking a huge gamble dropping a man whose direct opponent was subbed for a complete novice at county level.
Hopefully it pays off, but I'm worried...
This is the way I think Down need to line out on Sunday!
McVeigh
Dan McC Grant McGuigan
Murtagh Rooney MCGovern Clarke/Cole
Murphy/Jackie Dan G
Sexton Carr Hughes
Packie Benny
Still not convinced thta the paper's starting 15 are the 15 who'll be on the pitch come 4.15 on Sunday!
This is the way Cavan should line out
Reily
Cahill Hannon Chesty
McKeever Sean Brady
Flanagan Crowe Forde
McCabe Galligan
Lyng Larry
Pierson Jayo
Thats the way they will only jason instead of jelly.
Thanks for pointing out my stupidity C4Ever :-[ :D
i see you dont disagree with my tactic of crowding out the defence.
thats what i'm lead to believe is going to happen and it might work. if down don't score goals we can take them!!!
How do u think it will go 5ive Times??
Looking forward to seeing the new set up at the Marshes , Hope there is a big crowd and that Down give us all a preformance to be proud of .
Seen a picture of the stand in the Marshes it look's pretty impressive. Im not sure about the Cavan support for sunday there are alot of light weights who say there not going but it will be there loss. The support has been poor enough this year apart from Meath in the league. I'l be going anyway and hoping for a good game, Cavan to win by 2 points with downs only goal coming in injury time!!!!
definitely think monk and paul murphy will start, after brill performances last week they definitely should. DOWN 2 12 Cavan 0 14
Both teams will score goals, I can't see either team tweaking things to such a degree that they'd manage a clean sheet.
I still think Cavan have learned more than Down especially the key lesson about tracking the attacking half backs which the selection of Sean Brady and Lyng should counter quite well.
As it stands we are already competitive in midfield and will only be more so for the arrival of a fit player like Galligan who can run with Gordon, so if anything you'd hope we'd be improved there. Gunner, Fannin, Johnston are excellent subs as well.
Like ourselves Down are very shaky at the back and already we know that either set of forwards have the measure of the opposing defence. However I think Cavan's new team selection will thwart Down's gameplan by just enough to win. The Benny factor is still there but we will clearly try to crowd him out of it and if we restrict him I think Down's fizz will be well flattened.
Let's not forget that Down arrived at Breffni as something of a rabble very low on confidence after a dreadful season and emerged with confidence restored largely as a result of Cavan incompetence in selection and gameplan, which, as I say, I feel we have dealt with to a good enough extent to win by 2 points on Sunday. And I'm never usually confident, can't explain why I am this weekend.
Just put the mortgage on Cavan , you know it makes sense. :o
I have it on very good authority from a member of the panel that Monk Cole and Paul Murphy are definite starters, no doubt.
Thank f**k!
While pleased if your scources are correct.Who'll get the chop? PS. Is there any need for the foul language?
Stranworst, would also be interested in your sources. Ross and DJ are men of their word- a lot of posters thought the named team wouldn't start last week but they did. In a 70 minute amateur game you are going to see substitutions. League attenders will confirm McGuigan is comfortable in a Down shirt.Apart from Big James, we were impressed with his covering and distribution- only one mistake against Kildare.He won't need us to tell him about last week and DJ was well placed to read it. John Clarke is a strong fit footballer who can take a score when his confidence is up. Jackie is bigger than Mc Crickard so gets the nod. Mc Govern is a grafter and Daniel will be a key man on Sunday if they double up on Benny. So I think the same 15 is fair enough. They have shown they are not afraid to act and I confidently expect a 4 point win with Mc Comiskey getting 25 minutes and recording those winning 4 points !
Don't think it should matter which down team starts sunday, the starting team last day will improve IMO as alot of that team seemed to be nervous being their first big game with alot of pressure not to lose. It is good to know that the men on the bench are prepared to come in and do a job if needs be.
i heard, the shamrocks club are opening their bar (at the ground) before the game and after it, for the cavan boys i hear they give a good rate on the yo yo!!!! An opportunity to wet the lips and get the slagging goen!!! C'mon Down
Where does the Esler come from?
Fr Esler purchased the ground which is the home ground of the Newry Shamrocks and the county ground.
The marshes it certainly is on a wet day! Although id say Mr Prunty and his shinny new undersoil pipes will have something to say about that!!
Remember the last time it pished down in a championship in the marshes, Derry went on to win the AI, you Cavan boys will be hoping for rain then!!
Jacky Lynch is still injured & wont be fit for sunday.....Murphy starting.
Torgael is more reliable than Hogan stand. Or is he??
Was at Drumgath match tonight, Jacky was there & that was the craic that was being spoke of at the game.heard murphy was starting in his place.would have thought it was a bad place to spread that particular story it its not true.
Is this game going to be broadcast on the radio tomorrow?
Setanta's not showing it here in NA tomorrow or during the week later on. I was hoping I might be able to pick it up on-line tomorrow morning to just listen in.
Mrs. redandblack4ever
!7£ is extortionate, are Family tickets available, School Kids entrance,discount for pensioners, time there was a serious debate re.pricing structure for games and some level of consistency
are you sure, i know its £18 for a ticket for the stand which have been distributed already. I would have thought the terrace would be alot cheaper than 17 quid, surely??
Are the prices not the same as last week, £12 or ?18 for the terraces. Hence the reason for putting the ladies match on before hand to justify the price. Its a disgrace, the Down minors who should have home venue anyway according 2 the draw should be the warm up match!
Hardstation the stand is now fully covered to seat 4,000.
Heard the ladies game is off before Senior match.
any reports from the game?
BBC have James McGovern and Ronan Murtagh as cavan men :-\.
Was Coulter on ?
Down won.
Great result for Down. Not a bad match either. Down were a far better team. Paul Murphy, Kevin McGuigan, Mickey McVeigh, Dan Gordon and Aidan Carr were outstanding as were substitutes Stephen Kearney and Paul McComiskey.
Well deserved Down victory today. Far better defensive performance than last sunday. Thought McGuigan, Murtagh, Gordan, Downey, Kearney & McComiskey, all had fine games today. Our substituties really hit the spot when introduced....a good day at the office for Ross & D.J.
Meant to mention big Packie. Thought he was superb.
A Chaide I have to say Decky Rooney was an outstanding captain. He covered every blade of a superb pitch, had a goal chance denied ,slotted over a fine point at a crucial time, out-fielded Mc Cabe and provided leadership for the first time since... DJ. Communicated well with Ross, lifted players when they needed it and got stuck in.Thought the defence improved immeasurably( as did Cavan's), Paul Murphy,Aidan Carr ,Daniel H and Paul Mc Comiskey ( what a confident player- Caitlin called it right) were outstanding but a real team display was encouraging. The stand is wonderful, the support was first-rate and every management call was right for the second week running. Only sour note was the disgraceful Ulster Council decision to keep the minor match in Cross
Cant see how people think that Carr had a good game - although I thought he was better than Danny Hughes who was piss poor, until the last 10 minutes. The decision to keep two extra men as defenders inside the 50 looked like the sideline did not know what they were doing. Neither of these players contributed anything during this period and until McGuigan and Mc Comiskey kicked a bit of life into the Down team, things looked in the balance. A very average game with too many mistakes made on both sides - any half decent team would hammer us. Great to see a bit of spirit though.
Much, much better by Down today - especially so in the scond half, when we were well-organised, efficient and sharp.
Defence was excellent, and McGuigan and McCartan improved immeasurably. Midfield was very useful - not too much clean ball was taken, but we broke sensibly and competed very well on the floor. I gave McVeigh a bit of abuse last week for kicking every ball long, so credit were credit is due, today he was outstanding in that department, and he mixed them up really well.
Danny Hughes had a fine game, as did young McComiskey, and Sexton worked himself into the ground. Aidan Carr had a teriffic second half before being replaced. The Harps pair both played well too.
Actually, the only Down players not at the races today were Coulter and John Clarke.
I'd agree with Dubh Droicht though, Declan Rooney was simply immense and gets my vote for man of the match. He was everywhere, and did just about everything right.
Anyway, well done to the lads, and to Ross and co. as well. Down have had a hibit on recent years of falling apart in replays, but there was no danger of that today - the team was well prepared and in form.
Great defensive performance today, felt sorry for benny as he was marked out of the game. Paul Murph had a good game in the middle of the park.
I thought Aidan car had an off day, harsh to say he was piss poor as it is not easy out there.
Packie downie was brilliant, strong as an ox.
The Subs who came on pushed us over the line & bi Jack Lynch looked solid.
Where is the monaghan game???
I said Hughes was piss poor, not Carr.
Game V Monaghan in Newry on 10 June
Cloc Mor , think you are too harsh on Carr and Hughes. The two key tasks are to win the ball and distribute it. Both the players performed these tasks immensely.If there was a statto analysis I think you would find they were well ahead of the other forwards.Aidan's shooting again lacked confidence but once he starts firing them over there will be no stopping him . Daniel won every ball that came his way which was crucial when Benny was so well marked and not firing on all cylinders. We could be critical but days like this are few and far between. We had a great view so well done to Sean Magee and Club Down.
A lot of positives from a fine team performance plus signs of return to the old spark and self belief. Certainly a real confidence booster. But lets not get carried away, todays performance while a decided improvement on anything we have seen to date this season, would still not be good enough to trouble any of the real contenders in Ulster. Our lack of a strong physical presence in key areas, very evident at times today, will be difficult to compensate against teams like Monaghan or Derry. However thats another days work, lets enjoy our all to rare victory
While we have a long way to go, this was a very decent Down performance. We dominated from start to finish, apart from a couple of brief purple patches from Cavan, and it would probably be the first time since the 1994 AI semi against Cork that we have been so much in control of a championship match. We should have been ahead by double scores at the break, but we stayed calm, and although the red card for Lyng was a big help, we finished the game like a fit and confident side.
McVeigh was a reassuring presence with safe hands and a fine range of kick-outs but there could be no doubt about the MoM. Rooney was outstanding when the pressure was on, and, although he made a couple of errors in the first half, he got stronger and more commanding as the game developed.
The entire defence was excellent, and Grant probably had his best ever game in a county jersey. McCartan is not the fastest back in the country but no one got away from him, while Murtagh and Cole were as steady as ever. McGuigan had a strange game, as he struggled badly in the third quarter but looked very impressive in the closing stages. Clarke was still a bit patchy when he came on.
Gordon really looked the part for most of the game, although he took a heavy knock early on and was lucky to stay on after throwing a punch during the flare-up in the middle of the second half. Murphy works really hard alongside him and gets up and down the field effectively.
Carr got his point at last and is capable of further improvement, while McGovern did not look very happy to be replaced. However, Kearney was strong with plenty of pace when he got his chance and Sexton still covers more ground than anyone else. Downey provides a good physical presence, although he can still do more, and while Benny did not score, and was not at his best, he still set up chance after chance and created the space for Hughes, who was back to his true form. McComiskey should have been on earlier but he is a fantastic prospect and took two vital points at the right time.
Ross and DJ have gone quietly about their business, but they are creating an emerging team. The atmosphere in the new stand was great as well, so I can't wait for the Monaghan match. They are likely to be a better side than Cavan, who were mostly fairly ordinary, but the buzz is back in Down football.
what a prospect young mccomiskey is cool head and very accurate great to see someone from division 3 excelling in county football
CC1, the referee didn't give us that much- would agree that Dan was lucky to stay on but the big hallion who came on had only one thing in his mind and that was to get dan sent off. Agree with you about Seanie Johnson- he should have been on earlier and he gave our defence many more problems than the Reillys.
Good win for the boys today, you would have to take heart from it. Gordon should have walked and was really lucky that the referee was as shite as he was.
Can't see what Aidan Carr has to offer, I thought he was our least effective player and we need a centre half forward who can win his own ball and set up play.
The Lyng sending off was crucial, although it took a while for our boys to work out how to use the extra man.
Don't want to be too critical though, a win is a win. Rounded off a great GAA weekend for me, know what I mean wobbler and 5 Sams ;) even our seconds won this morning!!
Dub Drioct minor match had to be on a neutral ground so it was hardly a disgraceful decision from the Ulster Council was it?
Corn 02 - why did it have to be neutral ? Down were away in the preliminary round so therefore had earned a home tie.The date it was played was already a concession to Monaghan.I understand the Monaghan management didn't want to play at Newry but it would have been the right thing to do. I was talking to the father of a player who had to leave the senior game early. We also had a double bill at Casement for the Hurlers. Setting that aside, well done to Monaghan.
Quoteknow what I mean wobbler and 5 Sams
Fcuk off No 1 :-[ ;)
Well deserved win for Down. McCabe won a lot of ball in the air and took some deadly long range points but Murph ran the legs of him. I'll go into more detail tomorrow but I thought Ronan Sexton was immense. Our two boys are both hurt so good day bad day.
Only joking by the way No 1...yiz were streets ahead of us on Fri nite...well deserved win...
"Johnston is quality alright, and both Larry and Jason, the latter in particular are finished."
I didn't see the game today but I thought Larry was worth his place the last day. He's a bit greedy but he can still take a score ok.
CC1
agree with your suggestion of a full forward line,
Jason Reily is finished as a starter on the county team,
Larry im not sure about.
Some good performances by Cavan and some poor ones.
Miller very good in goals
Hannon made coulter look what he is which is an very overrated player.He has very poor feet on him.
Chesty and Cahill were ok,even though Daniel Hughes did score 3 from play on Cahill.
Didnt think Flanagan was terribely effective today at wing back,
Forde done well when dropped deep to double team Coulter.
McKeever had an awful game in my opinion at CHB,Tried his hardest but nothing went right.
Crowe was solid enough at wing back,definetely impressed seeing as it was his debut.
Thought McCabe had a stormer at midfield,Everything good as usual went through him,he scored what 4 or 5 points? and won a lot of ball at midfield.
I had high hopes for Galligan but i thought Gordon lorded it over him throughout,disappointed in him to be honest.
Sean Brady alongside McCabe and Jelly was one of Cavans better players.
He done everything today,Tracked back,carried the ball well,Set up scores and took them aswell.Very impressed with him.
Lyng done well in fits and starts,The sending off was stupid.
Larry kicked one great score,but then went out of the game,something which we have seen far too much over the past few years.
Jason was non existant.
Pierson wasnt great no doubt,but jason should have been taken off before him.
Jelly outstanding when he came on,Looked dangerous every time he touched the ball.
rest of subs
Walsh,should have started,we have no-one else to partner McCabe at CentreField,so hes our only option.
Fannin,not on long enough to really impact the game
Mulvey,liked the tactic of putting him at full forward but probably too late.
Gunner,did well when he came on,but didnt look terribely fit and comfortable on the ball,obviously the injury the last day was a bit more serious than just cramp.
Ballyhaise Man, I probably shouldn't bother, but if Coulter is very over-rated and has very poor feet, why did your boys put two men on him ? I agree that he has had better games for Down (i.e. last week) but he still had a hand in almost all of our second half scores, drew a brilliant save from your keeper and kept finding McComiskey, who was the main reason we pulled away at the end. If I was in the blue corner, I would be more concerned about team selection, tactics and discipline.
Rover, time you were in bed.Mind you, your analysis is spot on, as always. Any chance of a choc-ice ?
Firstly great to see Down Flags back up around Newry and the Marshes is a fantastic venue, somewhere we can be proud of as a county , well done to all involved . Jarlath was well impressed with the pitch quality last night on the Championship .
Good hard working display by all including Ross and DJ , subs again made the impact that was needed .
Ross in the Irish News today , Doyle , Walsh , Rodgers wont be available until the Ulster final or the latter stages of the qualifiers . Walsh warmed up yesterday so he must be the closest . No mention of D.Rafferty .
QuotePosted by: wobbller
Club Down was the driver behind the whole Development that we witnessed yesterday.
Absolute bollix wobbller...while Club Down have played their part alright to give them all the credit is just plain wrong.....don't forget that EVERY club in the county (with a few notable exceptions) have contributed and continue to contribute thousands of pounds to the development of the Marshes.
5 sams , your language has gone to the dogs. have you been spending too much time watching soccer or in the non gaa place.
Firstly it was great to get a win, and this was a big improvement from last week. For the first time in years our defenders were aggressive and 'in the faces' of their opponents for the whole match and they played as a unit. Best game I have seen B. Grant play for Down since his minor days. Murtagh again was immense, super fit, a threat going forward, and his tackling and covering are improving with every game. D. Rooney had a great game, never stopped running and has been a great find.
However, we should of had Cavan out of sight by half time, the amount of possesion we had was unreal, we really need to be more clinical, put the ball over the bar and turn possession into scores. Cavan are not a good side!! Down only pulled away in the last 5-10 minutes and against better opposition we're going to have to be more economical with our possession, more decisive and have more belief in ourselves.
Personally I thought A. Carr was disappointing yesterday, seems to lack conviction and belife in himself and I'm still waiting on him to dictate a game and notch up 5-6 points.
Danny Hughes finished with 3 points from play but I feel there is much more in him, too quiet for too long in the game.
McComiskeys youthful confidence and swagger has a good effect on the team, a big boost when introduced.
Resisted the temptation to come on last week with my pennysworth and waited instead for the replay just to see how far this Down team have progressed in the last 6 months, so heres how i saw it.(Il try not to go through every players performance)
Defensively Down looked a more assured unit and had little or not problems with ball in hand, and moved the ball from defence to attack with great ease. (Il comment on Cavans team at the end). Rooney struggles to convince at full back yet not doing alot wrong mind you, but if ever there was proof enough that he is far more useful further out the field then just look to the 2nd half display, great leadership, authority on the ball and out-leaping McCabe on a few occasions. Monk Cole i felt struggled somewhat with defensive duties, couldnt get tight enough to Johnston and it showed once or twice. Dan Mc Cartan althoguh not the fastest or most sensible defender about still did well enough and gave an honest hardworking display as did Mc Guigan - and as said earlier quite a strange game for Mc Guigan in that he ended the game with a point to his name and actually was one of the chief playmakers in last 20 mins, he seemed to get on the ball so much as game neared the end.(i couldnt help but get the jitters every time he sauntered forward with the ball soloing).
Half back line again proved to be the main launchpad for Down's attacks with Murtagh now finally delivering on years of potential and looks every inch a quality footballer at Senior Intercounty Level. He does most things very well, and has added a maturity to his game that was missing for a few years, plays and acts like a leader now and shoulders alot of responsibility which is good to see. No point commenting on the skills he brings to the table as a footabller because we all know what he is capable of, its his attitude, desire and workrate that have really stood out for me.(Although he did torture larry reilly in first 20 mins or so with a few wee rabbitt punches to the ribs - sneaky!)
Brendan Grant looked steady enough and played the spare man/sweeper role to perfection for long spells, not the fastest but can read a game excellently and does anchor the defence while our attack minded wing halfs go walkies now and again.
Im not a big fan or Murphys at all but id be the first to admit he had a superb game getting through a mountain of work in the middle while proceeding to run the legs of Mc Cabe up into his own arse trying to track him. Id say he covered every blade of grass on the field and just did so many good things in the game. Paul Murphy could be a very useful foil for an attacking midfielder if he just persisted to do the simple things well, catch, lay off, support, have the odd pop at score, nothing silly. When he doesnt solo the ball or try to do too much he can be a very effective midfielder. Great Game.Great hours work.
Dan Gordon did rightly again and im just happy right now that he has greatly improved upon his shite national league campaign, he is contributing so much more these days even if it is in 5 minute stints here and there.
Forwards all chipped in and contributed something at different stages of the game which was good to see, the spread of scores from different sources was very encouraging and i wouldnt pay too much attention to Bennys lack of scores or quiet performance at all, it was always goin to happen after last weeks match. In a perverse sort of way im sorta glad he was shackled somewhat and was made work that wee bit harder for his ball, it meant that the rest of the forward line had a chance to step up to the plate and showcase what they could do.
Suppose i should be giving a few negatives here somewhere too.
- Dan Gordon could /should have walked for swipe at Walsh
- If Cavans Forward Line werent so frickin greedy they could have really pinpointed weaknesses in Downs defence and cleaned out certain players.
- Aiden Carr drifts out of games for long spells and seems invisible sometimes when his opposite number decides to go forward.
- Our Full Forward line was not in the game for long spells - mainly due to the extra man covering back in front of Benny - but this would surely necissitate shootig from range, we didnt do this, we still tried to look for coulter when we should have been popping them over from distance.
And a word for Cavan
- Seriously disappointed with Cavan over the two legs - Without Mc Cabe in that team they would struggle badly.
- Nicholas Walsh deserved a skite for his thuggish antics - he will never learn, he is only put on the field for one reason only and that for me is a waste of a jersey imo.
- There is too much football in mark mckeever to be playing him as a stopgap plug in the defence - marauding wing half back ala murtagh for Down is what would best suit him.
- Your half back line should read - Mc Keever - Gaynor - Paul Brady.
- A serious decent foil for Mc Cabe at midfield, someone that will do the running and working releasing Mc Cabe from defensive duties.
- A Full Back line that isnt naive.
- Im Probably being harsh with all the above but the biggest problem id say is your forward unit - Larry Reilly is either a puddin or he been ating the weights recently, and he is far too quickly sidetracked from the game by his man and seems to blow upp/burst after 25 mins, Seanie Johnston should quit showboatin to the crowd and just get on with skinnin defenders, and jayo reilly is living on past glories, his work rate is terrible.
biggest failing is that they dont play as a unit, they look like 6 guys that dont like each other or have no confidence in each other.
Back to Down.
Its great to see a bit of (dare i say it) steely resolve in the Down team, several guys actually looked like there was no way they would be either intimidated out of it or pushed around - Finally Dan Gordon (as silly as it was) lifted the paw showed some agression and gave someone a skite - as walsh came chargin in for the dirt big dan was having none of it, bout time. Also then when jackie came on, growled and reared thon hairy chest at a few Cavan fellas ye just knew it was to be Down's day. Sexton taking on Mc Cabe was a tonic to see, Murtagh giving Larry Reilly the evils in the first 20 mins, Big Ginger Packie flooring some defender with his chest as he trotted back to position in last 10mins, it just had "f**k youse boys arent gunna come down here and bate us in our back garden" written all over it.
Thats me for now......the keyboards on fire!! be back with more later. lol
Quote from: Fíor Gael on May 21, 2007, 11:17:18 AM
For the first time in years our defenders were aggressive and 'in the faces' of their opponents for the whole match and they played as a unit.
Is the term "in their faces" a translation for pulling and dragging? That is pretty much the only "defending" Down seemed to be doing yesterday.
Well done to Down yesterday on a deserved win and also on their magnificently appointed little stadium and superb playing surface. A venue, like our own, to be proud of.
I'm a little surprised at the extent of Down's backslapping on here I have to say, which smacks of a win covering up all ills. Like I said, the win was deserved but to say Down were dominant throughout etc. wouldn't be at all accurate in my book.
In the first half Down were as guilty of pumping ball down the throat of covering defenders and coughing up possession unforced as we were when the ball was going the other way. Once Cavan scored a free we battled right back into it and lead at one stage before eventually going in level at the break. Coulter wasn't being given a sniff and to my mind it was largely honours even around the middle for kickouts and breaking ball.
In the second half, Lyng's correct, but nonetheless reckless and stupid sending off cost us the game. Down always set the target for us to chase but never looked fit to shake us off prior to that red card, and even up to the last ten minutes, still didn't. Even with 14 men we were right in this game and Anthony Forde shot a superb leveller with 7/8 minutes of normal time to go. In the end we couldn't get enough ball into Seanie after the tactical re-jig which is a let-off for Down because he was eating the Down full-back line alive at one point, doing much more damage than the more illsutrious Benny at the other end.
The ref copped out badly by not sending off Gordon but I will be fair enough to say that I think Walsh came on and hit him first with a rabbit-punch to the stomach so if one red card had been issued there, I think another one for Walsh would have followed. Some of the Down close-in tackling looked like fouling too and was pretty close to the edge.
In the last ten minutes, Down pressed attack-minded defenders forward (no.3 and no.4 excellent in this regard) and used them to launch attacks with short kickouts, and with 14 men and tired legs we got stretched and eventually gave up the ghost. A deserved win for Down in the end but there was not as much between the sides as some Down folk on here are suggesting and it would have been interesting going into those last ten minutes 15 v 15, that would have told us more about Down I think.
Overall, very little between those two sides. Alot of positives there for Cavan even in defeat with the defensive solidity overall, displays of Hannon, Forde, Crowe (comfortably justified selection), McCabe, Sean Brady, Johnston. Wasn't happy with Larry starting as I knew he'd both allow his man to get forward for a score (and he did) and also run out of puff and fade from the game (which he did). Himself and Jason (who foolishly tried to fashion a goal in second half when point was easier option off his left) aren't good enough to start a championship game any more and the continued humiliating of Pierson in this regard will cost us dear, as he's not operating on zero confidence.
If we get Mulvey a bit fitter and Rabbitte back for the next game (7th July, 6 or 7 weeks effectively) we can approach our next game not without hope.
Jaysus we haven't won a game in over 12 months , surely we are allowed get a wee bit carried away and enjoy the result ? For a couple of days anyway ?
Aye go on so and enjoy it, but don't let feckin' Monagahn beat ye! ;)
I presume Lyng will be kicked off the panel now due to costing us the game with a stupid sending off. That is if management are being consistent.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 21, 2007, 12:06:06 AM
Ballyhaise Man, I probably shouldn't bother, but if Coulter is very over-rated and has very poor feet, why did your boys put two men on him ? I agree that he has had better games for Down (i.e. last week) but he still had a hand in almost all of our second half scores, drew a brilliant save from your keeper and kept finding McComiskey, who was the main reason we pulled away at the end. If I was in the blue corner, I would be more concerned about team selection, tactics and discipline.
Mourne Rover,im not trying to snipe at Coulter or Down and try and take away from your very good win yesterday.
In my opinion Benny has missed some very easy scores over the two games. Scores that a player with such talent should be scoring with his eyes closed.
He has the talent to be one of the top 5 players in the country.But i dont think hes even close to that now.
Scoring a few goals against a piss poor Cavan defence the first day doesnt prove anything to me.
il be the first to retract my statement of him being overrated if he does the business against Monaghan and hopefully ;) Derry/Antrim.
Best of luck for the rest of the championship anyway :)
Monaghan dont have a hope, Down have 2 good competitive games under their belts and home advantage............
Mickey Hannon - what a guy!
The Brick will be away for the next while, so happy posting lads. Hopefully we'll have something to cheer about in the qualifiers, seeing as the seniors, minors and Under 21s are all gone in the first round again.
PS Mickey Hannon!!!! etc etc
So the clubs would have organised themselves to produce what we have now?The Club payments are a result of a previous CB attempt that failed,the Clubs were then levied on account of this MISMANAGEMENT back then.
I wouldn't be getting carried away with yesterday. Down only managed to close the game out when Lyng got the line. If he had been on it would have went right down to the wire.
Someone said earlier in the thread that the Cavan lad that Gordan smacked deserved it, I duno but Gordan needs a kick up the hole for being so stupid. He could have cost Down the game yesterday if he had got what he deserved and got the line. He damaged his hand hitting the Cavan player and this is why he went off.
Packie Downey isn't a county footballer, I don't even think he is a division 1 club footballer. He was brutal yesterday, until the last 10 mins when Down were well on top.
Young McComiskey really impressed me again yesterday when he came on. He reminds me of James McCartan, there is a real air of confidence with him. He was strolling round the pitch like he owned the place yesterday, unreal for a 19 year old.
Fair dues to the Cavan supporters for their sporting behaviour over the two games.
Congrats to Down & Best of luck for the remainder of the Ulster Championship
Packie Downey isn't a county footballer, I don't even think he is a division 1 club footballer. He was brutal yesterday, until the last 10 mins when Down were well on top.
amallon get away out of it, Packie Downey is a decent footballer, there is planty of football in him there can be no doubt about it, he is just a raw talent at 21 yrs old and will learn the hard way if needs be. Ive no doubt he definitely contributed toward the win yesterday. He is a handful for most defenders and can be a very effective target man, id say he was a dam sight better than the likes of Aiden Farrell when he was his age. Also dont be so quick to jump on him, when his Ginger counterpart in the full forward line isnt up to scratch now and again ye dont hear too many bitchin about him, lay off the lad, even if it is only your own personal opinion.
Packie Downey isn't a county footballer
Ross Carr & DJ Kane seem to think he is and i think il side with their selection on this one.
Brick your rght its only my opinion but I'm entitled to it. He hasn't shown me anything to warrant his inclusion on this Down team. As for Benny, there will be days when he will be double marked for much of the game and he isn't some sort of super human who can win every ball and beat two opposition players. He was sacraficed yesterday so that others in the forward got more space to operate.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 21, 2007, 02:13:11 PM
Packie Downey isn't a county footballer, I don't even think he is a division 1 club footballer. He was brutal yesterday, until the last 10 mins when Down were well on top.
amallon get away out of it, Packie Downey is a decent footballer, there is planty of football in him there can be no doubt about it, he is just a raw talent at 21 yrs old and will learn the hard way if needs be.
Packie Downey isn't a county footballer
Ross Carr & DJ Kane seem to think he is and i think il side with their selection on this one.
Packie Downey only turns 20 this month! I thought he did reasonably well yesterday, limited possession and he used it effectively. He's a lot to learn and remember he didn't play in the leaguge and I think he'll keep improving. Not a scoring threat yet but with more games and confidence he could do a bit of damage. Think you are being a tad harsh mallon.
i hear what your saying and i understand your sentiment but i still feel your being harsh, and im not referring particularly to yesterdays game in referrence to Bennys performances, he has seen his fair share of bad days too, worse than Downey yesterday thats for sure, and thats up against 1 defender not two or three.
I agree with mallon on downey. i haven't seen any evidence yet that he can contribute at this level.
Isn't it great to see the 1 man band myth disproved all the same and the one about us not being able to kick points from play . We didn't do everything right yesterday but it was a display that we can take a lot of positives from as we build for the Monaghan game .
Uladh , I dont give a flying one what you think , away and worry about Donegal ;D
I though downey did well yesterday he won alot of the ball that went into him. As for Coulter i though Hannon marked him well yesterday, it will be interesting to see how Monaghan deal with him. I though that Cavan would win if Down didn't get goals but it wasn't to be.
p.s Great stadium in Newry the stand looks super but why didn't they extend it the whole length of the pitch?
QuotePosted by: cavan4ever
p.s Great stadium in Newry the stand looks super but why didn't they extend it the whole length of the pitch?
I think they are restricted by a factory building at that end of the field. Looks a bit odd alright but I have to say it was in great shape all around yesterday.....at least we can see where our money is going to now.
Does anyone know the cost of Newry work, which is fantastic to see completed? What is the Debt within the County Board at present? Will they now sacrifice Newcastle to clear everything?
Quote from: 5 Sams on May 21, 2007, 03:05:07 PM
QuotePosted by: cavan4ever
p.s Great stadium in Newry the stand looks super but why didn't they extend it the whole length of the pitch?
I think they are restricted by a factory building at that end of the field. Looks a bit odd alright but I have to say it was in great shape all around yesterday.....at least we can see where our money is going to now.
Alright i thought that might have been it but i wasn't sure.. whats the capacity of the ground now anyway?
I havent heard an official figure but it wouldnt be anymore than 20,000. Official attendance was 15,000 yesterday and there seemed to be plenty of space around the ground.
Anyone guilty of standing along the fence yesterday ?? Frontline boys didn't have a chance , they tried though .
Quote from: downredblack on May 21, 2007, 02:40:11 PM
Uladh , I dont give a flying one what you think , away and worry about Donegal ;D
I've probably seen as much of down lately as you have sunshine and my opinion is of course eminently more relevant... Downey is shite. he was woeful yesterday.
The more important point to note coming out of the marshes yesterday was that down are still poor but, as ever, they don't think that.
Your opinion counts for f**k all , your last opinion was that Ronan Murtagh wasn't a half back . I think we can lay that one to rest with all the other blinkered shite you come out with . Takes guts to make comments about players out doing their best from behind your keyboard ,
yeeeow. hupyeboya.
If you think ronan murtagh is a half back, then my work here is done.
and packie downey is a distant cousin of a county footballer.
Jesus you really think your Joe Brolly :-*
Ronan Murtagh was outstanding in Both games at wing half back Uladh.
Hes a great player,Has it all,Speed,Ball Carrying ability and judging by the majority of the times Larry Reily tried to take him on yesterday,a good tackler.
Well i hope you're not ronan murtagh and go thinking you're a half back....
Just a thought Ballyhaiseman... Half backs are required to defend also. larry reilly took him on three times yesterday in the first half. first and third times he drew frees for embarrassing attempts at a tackle and the second time murtagh was left on his hole as larry kicked a point.
Its a common trait in modern football that a half back's inability to defend should be indulged if he can carry the ball and support the attack. of course, these things are never exposed until you meet decent opposition and you concede scores at a rate of knots.
mmmmmm aaron kernan anyone..
Unfortunately we have had our fingers burned on this one on more than one occasion in the last few years...
agree murtagh has been good in the last 2 games but on the back of playing a terrible cavan team then trying to compare him to aaron kernan is a joke!
Best of luck to Cavan in qualifiers, you deserve a good run
Great day yesterday and an improved performance. Monaghan will be a different animal and will know us inside out now after the two games. All we need now is for a donegal win!!!! :P
Uladh at least rony murtaghs daddy isnt keeping him on the team, the comparison is justified although murtagh has more potential in that position to defend and attack IMO.
Fair play to the county board for spending £ on a top class facility that we can now call our own instead of paying players to play as is done in a certain neighbouring county ::) with no home! ;D
Quote from: redandblackjack on May 21, 2007, 07:45:11 PM
Fair play to the county board for spending £ on a top class facility that we can now call our own instead of paying players to play as is done in a certain neighbouring county ::) with no home! ;D
Can we? The Down county board don't own Newry.
Quote from: charlie stubbs on May 21, 2007, 06:16:00 PM
agree murtagh has been good in the last 2 games but on the back of playing a terrible cavan team then trying to compare him to aaron kernan is a joke!
Terrible Cavan team my hole,its not that bad of a cavan team,Down were good.
we will see how good you lot look next Sunday in Ballybofey,
Il Laugh when Donegal make a show of yous ;D
Quote from: johnneycool on May 21, 2007, 08:09:23 PM
Quote from: redandblackjack on May 21, 2007, 07:45:11 PM
Fair play to the county board for spending £ on a top class facility that we can now call our own instead of paying players to play as is done in a certain neighbouring county ::) with no home! ;D
Can we? The Down county board don't own Newry.
Why not? Do you think for some strange reason the shamrocks are going to tell them to hit the road?!! Use your common sense man. No more casement or clones, believe me!
cavan are the second worst team in ulster and donegal currently are the best on form.if thats a good cavan team theres not much hope for you.down where good?there maybe potential there, but thats all at the minute.if they get to the quarter final of all ireland it will be a massive achievement.the facts are 1 competitive victory in a year against a GOOD cavan team? :D
Quote from: charlie stubbs on May 21, 2007, 10:00:28 PM
cavan are the second worst team in ulster and donegal currently are the best on form.if thats a good cavan team theres not much hope for you.down where good?there maybe potential there, but thats all at the minute.if they get to the quarter final of all ireland it will be a massive achievement.the facts are 1 competitive victory in a year against a GOOD cavan team? :D
ah come on now charlie,Second worst team in Ulster :D
Somebody has bought the Monaghan hype i see. :D :D
id take this Cavan team over Fermanagh,Monaghan and Antrim anyday.
That is a fairly Good Down team..and we matched them all the way until Lyng got sent off,which completely fucked up our chances.
Down are going to beat Monaghan fairly comfortabely and will rattle Derry aswell.
I think you are underestimating them a bit.
Also its a decent enough Cavan team that needs to and will improve greatly under Grimley and Co...
Armagh might be playing us in the first round qualifiers in July anyway ;)
Quote from: charlie stubbs on May 21, 2007, 06:16:00 PM
agree murtagh has been good in the last 2 games but on the back of playing a terrible cavan team then trying to compare him to aaron kernan is a joke!
Much the same Cavan team and players had alot of Armagh's
nouveau and loyal, dedicated fans (post 1999 vintage I'd say) streaming out of Clones with five minutes to go in 2004. Fair play you came back and won it and all that but I'd say in the run up you and your likes were describing Cavan as a terrible team that year as well after beating what was regarded as an equally poor Down side.
I'd have hoped you were watching Ulster football long enough to know that all sides in the province deserve the respect of the others!
QuoteI'd have hoped you were watching Ulster football long enough to know that all sides in the province deserve the respect of the others!
Except Antrim.
Re: Charlie Stubbs
agree murtagh has been good in the last 2 games but on the back of playing a terrible cavan team then trying to compare him to aaron kernan is a joke!
your right it is a joke,there is no comparison murtagh would wipe the floor with kernan
Who are you to say what concerns me?
anyway, come back to me after the derry game, when murtagh gets shown up, and derry aren't even a top tier team.
By the way, i had quite a chuckle at the attempted tackle last night when logie showed Larry reilly's point.
Quote from: Uladh on May 22, 2007, 10:42:10 AM
anyway, come back to me after the derry game, when murtagh gets shown up, and derry aren't even a top tier team.
There is no guarntee they will beat monaghan.
at least 5 times has added a little realism to this thread.good victory yes,but people like bt need to take a reality check.in relation to cavan running armagh close in 2004,alot of cavan players have went backwards since then,the reillys in particular jason spring to mind.running a team close is all well and good but GOOD teams are judged on victories not running teams close
Quote from: charlie stubbs on May 22, 2007, 10:52:33 AM
at least 5 times has added a little realism to this thread.good victory yes,but people like bt need to take a reality check.in relation to cavan running armagh close in 2004,alot of cavan players have went backwards since then,the reillys in particular jason spring to mind.running a team close is all well and good but GOOD teams are judged on victories not running teams close
The point is that teams at least earn the right
not to be called
terrible on the basis of giving serious headaches to more vaunted opposition. En their route to Sam in 2005, that same 'terrible' Cavan team came within an ace of dumping Tyrone out of Ulster don't forget.
If it's one thing ANY Cavan team are always capable of, this one included, it's giving the big boys some serious brown trouser moments and I'd happily play Armagh next weekend and predict a close game. So don't call us terrible please we deserve a bit more respect as Ulster's most successful ever football team.
......running a team close is all well and good but GOOD teams are judged on victories not running teams close......
Would that be victories in the all ireland series ie Finals etc or just within the confines of ulster ie Ulster Titles.....hmm let me think.
Sure Armagh have made a name for themselves by running teams close, and have somehow become the masters of grinding teams down and scraping by in the end.
As a Down gael i believe a bit of respect should be afforded Cavan especially from Armagh folk on here pontificating and spouting tripe. Id be wary of any Cavan team and their pedigree is there for all to see, they should have scalped Tyrone last year and their year is by no means over yet, it might actually just be starting for them, i dont believe any team would like to meet them in the qualifiers. and im being in now way patronising by saying that.
And a word for Cavan
- Seriously disappointed with Cavan over the two legs - Without Mc Cabe in that team they would struggle badly
- A Full Back line that isnt naive.
- Im Probably being harsh with all the above but the biggest problem id say is your forward unit - Larry Reilly is either a puddin or he been ating the weights recently, and he is far too quickly sidetracked from the game by his man and seems to blow upp/burst after 25 mins, Seanie Johnston should quit showboatin to the crowd and just get on with skinnin defenders, and jayo reilly is living on past glories, his work rate is terrible.
biggest failing is that they dont play as a unit, they look like 6 guys that dont like each other or have no confidence in each other.
this is the good cavan team you spoke of shite full back line,one player in midfield and a crap forward line.contreadict yourself much?im speaking of cavan and down present teams that cannot compete at the highest level.down have potential as they have a number of new players.cavan are reliant on older players who are past their best.armagh may not have had such a past but if we are talking about recent teams over the last few years that can make an impact in the championship i sincerely doubt either cavan are armagh.iv heard murtagh is possibly the best club player in down but your claims he is now delivering his potential to be a top class intercounty player are premature on the basis of 2 performances.kernan has been doing it for 4 or five years
[/quote]
Packie Downey isn't a county footballer, I don't even think he is a division 1 club footballer. He was brutal yesterday, until the last 10 mins when Down were well on top.
Quote from amallon
Are you serious??? This lad will be the next gooch cooper. Unbelieveable strength and ability. A little confidence & he will come even better. 2nd chamionship game of his career & you think he shouldnt be nervous / make mistakes.
feed the ball to packie downie first of all & let his boots do the talking.
amallon's comments were a tad extreme. He is a bit green but Packie looks to have potential.
But quite honestly:
QuoteThis lad will be the next gooch cooper.
That is one crazy fuckin statement.
Quote from: Uladh on May 21, 2007, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: downredblack on May 21, 2007, 02:40:11 PM
Uladh , I dont give a flying one what you think , away and worry about Donegal ;D
I've probably seen as much of down lately as you have sunshine and my opinion is of course eminently more relevant... Downey is shite. he was woeful yesterday.
The more important point to note coming out of the marshes yesterday was that down are still poor but, as ever, they don't think that.
Uladh, you havent got a clue. I have heard of armchair footballers, I have now interactively encountered my 1st keyboard footballer, congratulations! ;D
Wobbler take care of Charlie stubbs there for me will ye theres a good lad, im tired of his tripe to be honest.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 22, 2007, 01:02:36 PM
amallon's comments were a tad extreme. He is a bit green but Packie looks to have potential.
But quite honestly:
QuoteThis lad will be the next gooch cooper.
That is one crazy fuckin statement.
a tadd optimistic, but who knows. he is still 19 yo!!
A tadd optimistic ???
Fcuk, one championship win & some Down posters have lost the complete plot
Quote from: full back on May 22, 2007, 01:09:00 PM
A tadd optimistic ???
Fcuk, one championship win & some Down posters have lost the complete plot
we werent discussing the championship, infact we were discussing Packie Downie (if you had of read the comments prior to commenting).
Some say he is shite some say he is ok and others think he was good & had a lot of potential.
Hardly loosing the plot ::)
bt i think your last post just clarifies you have been talking "tripe"
Quote from: lisdoon1 on May 22, 2007, 01:13:36 PM
Quote from: full back on May 22, 2007, 01:09:00 PM
A tadd optimistic ???
Fcuk, one championship win & some Down posters have lost the complete plot
we werent discussing the championship, infact we were discussing Packie Downie (if you had of read the comments prior to commenting).
Some say he is shite some say he is ok and others think he was good & had a lot of potential.
Hardly loosing the plot ::)
Are you related to Packie Downey or indeed are you Packie?
I am well aware you were speaking about a particular player, but saying as he has only played in 2 championship games I think those games are relevant to the discussion.
To say he is the next Gooch Cooper after those games is indeed crazy & I do believe you have lost the plot
maybe I was a bit harsh on Downey, he is a young lad and may improve. I just haven't seen anything from him yet. The Irish news said he never wasted a ball, I couldn't believe what I was reading. He lost/gave away half the possesion he had during the game, except for the last 10 when he showed some promise.
I think we can beat Monaghan, but it will be tight and any Down supporter taking a win over Monaghan for granted is off their rocker. The two games against Cavan will have brought Down on a good bit and we should be favourites going into the game.
I know I shouldn't but here goes......
Quote from Uladh regarding Rony Murtagh:
QuoteBy the way, i had quite a chuckle at the attempted tackle last night when logie showed Larry reilly's point
While I dont think its right to laugh at other peoples efforts at tackling etc I must say most of the nation had a great big roar of a laugh when Donaghy left Francie the thug on his hole last year :D :D
What's your point?
lads, this is all very silly. uladh usually has quite a bit of sense in him, and on this occasion i think he was only stating that we shouldnt get carried away, am i right? i think some of the postings since by uladh and others have pulled this whole thread into shite.
anyways for what its worth, here's my tuppence.....
- great stadium, pitch immaculate, credit to all involved in club down - i hope that the training facilities, centre of excellence a la owenbeg is the next on the agenda; also a decent set of changing rooms. they should commandeer or take over the fitness 21 building in the corner, ideal for changing rooms, physio rooms, etc etc
- fair play to micky mcveigh, i wasnt happy with his kickouts last day, but definitely his confidence and ability to play out short was a springboard for most of our attacks on the day
- full back line looked better, and i think the extra defender, sweeping up in front had a lot to do with this. I am not convinced that this was our plan though; i think Cavan dictated this by bringing their num11 back. good thing is that the mgt team now know that it works better that way and i hope recognise the need for a change
- rony murtagh was superb. looked cool and calm in position, and while i had doubts about his defending he is doing v v well
- still not convinced that dan is giving all he has; i would seriously question his bottle for a game when its in the balance.
- aidan was poor and looks v short of confience. do we persevere or damage him further by dropping him? i think he has the gameto play 11, certainly he has the passing ability to kick the ball....our wing half forwards worked v well, james unlucky to be taken off but kearney looked v good when he came on too
- i am not convinced by downey at all, but give the lad a chance; he is young and being asked to take on alot of responsibility. if we needed an extra defender i would drop him and keep danny and benny
- danny hughes last point reminded me of a m linden special....blasted down outside right with speed, then checked and inside for slot over with left...classic stuff!
- wish i had mccomiskey's confidence! the lad looks fearless, which is what you need at this level....
- great to get win, and the confidence boost should be huge. lets not get carried away tho, as i think time will tell that this was a poor cavan side, and that this down side is way off the mark with the big boys. still, it was a good feeling to come away with a win! and in good style too
Golden,
I think there are plans afoot to take over the building in the corner & create some sort of a VIP area.
Can anyone confirm?
Also, is likely that the monaghan game will be all ticket??
Amallon.....i dont remember Packie Downey loosing the ball "half the time" he had it in the game i was watching on sunday. Good fotballers in Down just dont end at the Mayobridge parish boundary ! Theres a lot more to come from him.
Lisdoon, as far as i know there are no plans for the purchase of the sports centre building (right hand side) from the Shamrocks. Plans are in place to redevelop the changing rooms (main ones) behind the terrace, no idea of a commencement date.
Golden i doubt very much that the county board can simply 'commandeer' anything, especially when they don't have ownership.
I presume Lyng will be kicked off the panel now due to costing us the game with a stupid sending off. That is if management are being consistent.
Why would this happen? ??? Lorcan Mulvey wasn't kicked off the panel.
Cavan have a few weeks now to re-group and let's hope they do well in the qualifiers.
Quote from: Cavanfan on May 22, 2007, 11:25:21 PM
I presume Lyng will be kicked off the panel now due to costing us the game with a stupid sending off. That is if management are being consistent.
Why would this happen? ??? Lorcan Mulvey wasn't kicked off the panel.
Cavan have a few weeks now to re-group and let's hope they do well in the qualifiers.
Because that is what happened Gaynor a few yrs ago and apparently is one of the reasons he isn't being called up this year. I was being sarcastic there though.
What was the traffic situation like getting through the town after the game?
Quote from: amallon on May 23, 2007, 11:07:38 AM
What was the traffic situation like getting through the town after the game?
Obviously you are either trying to change the subject here or just have too much time to spare!!
Too much time to spare!
For the record, i didn't comment generally on down's performance on sunday. I replied realistically to posts that firstly, ronan murtagh is a good wing back and secondly that Packie Downey is a decent footballer... both by county standards. That said, down folk do amuse me.
Generally speaking, for down to progress i think they will need to address a number of serious weaknesses. In fairness to Ross and DJ, they probably recognise these and can't produce players out of thin air. in all seriousness, i'm impressed with Ross and DJ's work to this point and suspected during the league that they were going in the right direction.
The usual story still applies in defence and here i do believe they have actually gone backways. for starters, there is no physical presence at either 3 or 6. Rooney is a decent footballer but should be playing at wing back and Grant is an ordinary club footballer. the centre of down's defence is crying out to be run through and this will happen in due course. the first job for ross should have been to build a solid platform at the back. Strength & aggression at 3 & 6 with your centre back having enough awareness to know where and when to to cover. This happened by default on sunday after cavan withdrew a forward into their own defence but i don't believe ross would've achieved this through tactical nous on his own.
When you have suspect ability in the full back line, you need an iron curtain in the half back line. this isn't just achieved through numbers 5, 6 & 7 but you need a midfield with defensive awareness and the capacity to tackle and work. Dan has great atributes but he has no positional sense whatsoever when down lose the ball and he's playing midifield on his own so far. Wing backs must be strong, be able to mark powerful and athletic forwards, be among the best tacklers on the team and transfer the ball out of defence fast. abilty to attack after that is a bonus. Those who can add an attacking dimension to their play should be very selective with their runs, in the knowledge that every second going forward is a second that they are leaving their team prone to counter attack. certainly, attacking should not mean carrying the ball for a defender for two reasons. If he carries the ball he is starving his forward line who no doubt are making wasted runs as he goes and secondly, there is no slower way to attack.
On the plus side, Down have as good and better forwards than any team in ulster. Everyone knows benny's capabilities and danny hughes can be very destructive if he finds enough space to play in. Paul Cumiskey is one of the best talents i've seen in years. His total disregard for the the occasion and the level he was stepping up to was highly impressive. he wanted the ball constantly on sunday and most noticable was that every down forward deferred possession too him first time... including benny. He also has supreme ability. he should be starting centre half forward on this team and gotten the ball at every opportunity. Ross's best change so far has been the introduction of a smarter type of work rate to the wing forward positions. Sexton works his socks off, running and tackling as all good wing forwards should and does his best work between midfield and half back. McGovern is a poorer version of the same thing but still offers great work rate and endevour. the space these two leave should be better exploited by aidan carr but i've seen enough promise from him to think he could improve as the year goes on.
As things stand, down will probably go close with monaghan but narrowly lose out. a good draw could see them make an all ireland quarter final through the back door, which would be a huge achievement for ross and dj. unfortunately a team like donegal or galway, who are expert at drawing defeners out and exploiting the space left behind will take them apart.
Quote from: Uladh on May 23, 2007, 11:34:00 AM
Strength & aggression at 3 & 6 with your centre back having enough awareness to know where and when to to cover.
Surley when Liam Doyle returns, he must be deployed at number 6 by Ross. For one he has the posistional awareness to play here, and secondly he can pass a ball from defence.
This was being cryed out for in Paddy O'Rourke's time, but surely time will be right for it when he returns!
Quote from: An Cloch Scoilte on May 23, 2007, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: Uladh on May 23, 2007, 11:34:00 AM
Strength & aggression at 3 & 6 with your centre back having enough awareness to know where and when to to cover.
Surley when Liam Doyle returns, he must be deployed at number 6 by Ross. For one he has the posistional awareness to play here, and secondly he can pass a ball from defence.
This was being cryed out for in Paddy O'Rourke's time, but surely time will be right for it when he returns!
I agree scoilte, and often wondered why he hasn't been played in this role, but full back is still a major problem. The management have tried quite a number of player in this position and have yet to find anyone suitable, D Rooney will do his best but he's not a natural full back and also plays much better out the field. Are there any players in the county who might have the ability to do the job in here, only one's I can think off have left the panel ie McKernan, McColgan, Scullion!
only one's I can think off have left the panel ie McKernan, McColgan, Scullion
Would that be Liz Mc Colgan??? because if its James Colgan forget about it, he left the panel of his own accord and opted out for the year and thus far he has done absolutely nothing since minor win to merit hype nor serious consideration for a starting place in county senior colours. Hype Hype Hype.
I agree wholeheartedly with Brick. Will people stop thinking that James Colgan is some sort of omnipotent saviour that has come down to this earth to guide Down to multiple All Ireland glories. He is just an average player. I just wonder how many of Colgan's fans have actually seen him play over the past two years?
Colgan is totaly over hyped. Even at minor he was not anything near as good as Clarke or Even Coulter in 99. His true colours were shown (as were others imo) when he opted out (as were Scullion's). Word was he was pissed off and i also heard he would only settle for a midfield role. Management make these decisions not players. I would seriously doubt whether himself or any of the other stay-aways will just walk back into the down set up whenever they feel like it. Ross and DJ are setting a benchmark and will be loyal to those loyal to them, and rightly so. The arse licking management style employed by POR got him sacked!
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 24, 2007, 12:58:37 PM
only one's I can think off have left the panel ie McKernan, McColgan, Scullion
Would that be Liz Mc Colgan??? because if its James Colgan forget about it, he left the panel of his own accord and opted out for the year and thus far he has done absolutely nothing since minor win to merit hype nor serious consideration for a starting place in county senior colours. Hype Hype Hype.
Fair point, but my question still isn't answered, is there anyone in the county who is capable of doing a job for Down at full back?
Andrew Kane of Bryansford would be an excellent option at full back but he is in Australia at the moment. Just thinking - were would Martin Clarke have fitted in to the whole scheme of things if he was still about?
Quote from: DownFanatic on May 24, 2007, 02:43:52 PM
Andrew Kane of Bryansford would be an excellent option at full back but he is in Australia at the moment. Just thinking - were would Martin Clarke have fitted in to the whole scheme of things if he was still about?
He would fit in the very best at no.10 or 11 and give us a greater scoring threat from the half forward line and an assured free taker!
Clarke would more than likely fit into CHF? Maybe even 10 as Fíor said. Pity he aint about, but at least he will be jumping at the chance to play for the county on return and provide a massive lift to the county.
With regards to the no.3 spot, unfortunately we don't seem to be able to breed defenders like bellew, mcanallen moynihan et al. Lets just hope the kids in the county are getting a good portion of raw spuds and steak for their tae!!
Everyone could recommend someone from their club, reality is the county has already been searched twice over.
Was at An Riocht v Bryansford last week, colgan the star for them by a mile, everything revolved around him, word on the sideline was that since he opted out of the county squad he has been a revolution for his club - maybe he has had a reality check? Still think he will make it though and he has only turned 20 remember.
Quotehe has been a revolution for his club
Rising up in arms is he? Bit drastic...
QuoteI`ll not laugh until then..
Clarke and Mallon may never be the same again
Laughing because players get wrecked by injury. Charming.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on May 25, 2007, 09:46:19 PM
Quote from: Uladh on May 22, 2007, 10:42:10 AM
Who are you to say what concerns me?
Uladh I honestly dont think you should be posting on this particular thread. You have no business here, you are neither a Cavan or a Down man, you are only here to stir things up. Your opinions on Murtagh are way way out.
Sadly I wont be home in time to see Donegal v Armagh, but we`ll see how good your lot are come Sunday.
I`ll not laugh until then, but this is definitely Armaghs swan song.
Next year, no Joe, no Oisin, no Geezer, the twins have already gone, Francie may never play again, McGrane probably wont be back, Clarke and Mallon may never be the same again. I could go on, but Im on holidays and I think you get the point.
Do you realise what an idiot that post makes you look?
only cavan and down men can post on this thread? my opinions on murtagh are way out? did you read my reasoning on why his inadequacies will cost down in the long run?
as for the stuff about armagh... firstly how is that relevent to a down/cavan match and secondly, have you met many armagh men wh actualy believe thay will win on sunday?
Your post makes you soun like a 5 year old in a school yard.
But actually, i think you are ronan murtagh. noone else could inexplicably ignore the glaringly obvious about him.
well argued.