Conor McManus
Ricey
Any other late bloomers / badly overlooked players out there?
Johnny Doyle
David Beggy
John McDermott
Kieran Donaghy
Edit: looking below seems I was wrong on that one :-[
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/168368/ (http://www.sportsfile.com/id/168368/)
Near sure that Francie Bellew never played minor football for Armagh.
Socrates.
Conor Gormley
Tony Scullion
Liam McHale, Ronan McGarrity, Patrick Harte, David Brady.
And they are just the midfielders from one club.
I think McManus was on minor panel but rarely played.
Was McManus on the minor panel as a keeper did i hear somewhere?
Gormley played under 21s but not minors.
Bernard Brogan,Kevin McManamon,Denis Bastic,Michael Fitzsimons and Eoghan O'Gara never played minor for Dublin
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 22, 2015, 01:03:32 PM
Was McManus on the minor panel as a keeper did i hear somewhere?
That was Darren Hughes. Him and Conor were the same year at minor and Darren ended up playing in goals, only because the no. 1 got injured and Darren had a good kick out.
I think Conor had been on the training panel but he definitely didn't make the match squad for the championship. That was very strange as he was the joint captain and one of the best players of the county minor championship winning team, and had already begun to make the breakthrough for Clontibret seniors. Within a year Darren was already becoming one of the most important players for Scotstown seniors and doing well for UUJ, and Conor was the match winner for Clontibret in the county final.
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:13:08 PM
Bernard Brogan,Kevin McManamon,Denis Bastic,Michael Fitzsimons and Eoghan O'Gara never played minor for Dublin
Really??! This is incredible. Just shows you that talent can slip through the net
Quote from: ck on July 22, 2015, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:13:08 PM
Bernard Brogan,Kevin McManamon,Denis Bastic,Michael Fitzsimons and Eoghan O'Gara never played minor for Dublin
Really??! This is incredible. Just shows you that talent can slip through the net
Brogan done his cruciate when 18.The rest were late developers. Bastic, O'Gara and Fitzsimons didn't even play u21. They got their chance when Dublin won Junior Championship in 08. Brian Fenton Dublin new midfielder also didn't play minor due to injury
Legend has it that Paul McGinley played Minor for Dublin before knee knack ended his career. The truth is far more interesting (http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/ryder-cup/paul-kimmage-interview-ryder-cup-captain-paul-mcginley-forged-in-gaa-furnace-30584751.html):
QuoteI loved Gaelic football. I had more of a talent for football than I had for golf. It came easier to me, I could see it. I was playing left half forward. Jim Stynes was our midfielder at Ballyboden and we had an understanding. I wasn't the biggest guy, but I was very accurate, good at passing and great at taking points from distance. But the one thing that was against me was my birth date - I was born on the 16th of December and with the GAA rules, I was underage to play club level but two weeks overage to play for Dublin and I could never get past the trials. I wasn't big enough.
...
I'd like to think I'd have played for Dublin. I'd like to think I would have been noticed at senior level and got a trial.
In short (pun unintended), it's not that surprising that many players slip through the net. Hundreds of young fellas to choose from and no objective way of sorting the wheat from the chaff - it must be so easy to pick the big uns. Then again, if you need evidence of the malaise in Cork hurling, look no further than how they overlooked Séamus Harnedy at both Minor and Under-21. The only way they could have missed him is that they were not looking.
I don't think Karl O'Connell played minor for Monaghan. What about Ross Munnelly, he didn't play minor for Laois?
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:37:31 PM
Brogan done his cruciate when 18.
Interesting to know. It's impossible to believe that he wouldn't have been noticed, if only for the name.
Bomber Liston, Tom Sullivan, Aidan Mahoney and Paul Murphy. The last three from the same club.
Quote from: Sleater on July 22, 2015, 01:45:28 PM
I don't think Karl O'Connell played minor for Monaghan. What about Ross Munnelly, he didn't play minor for Laois?
Munnelly did. Remember him playing against Westmeath in 2000 and he was outstanding.
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: ck on July 22, 2015, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:13:08 PM
Bernard Brogan,Kevin McManamon,Denis Bastic,Michael Fitzsimons and Eoghan O'Gara never played minor for Dublin
Really??! This is incredible. Just shows you that talent can slip through the net
Brogan done his cruciate when 18.They rest were late developers. Bastic, O'Gara and Fitzsimons didn't even play u21. They got their chance when Dublin won Junior Championship in 08. Brian Fenton Dublin new midfielder also didn't play minor due to injury
Not quite impossible, but it's almost impossible to break into the Dublin team now if you haven't played with the U21s previously - I don't think we even enter the Junior championship any more, making it particularly difficult for a lower league player to make it if he hasn't been picked up by the 21s.
Quote from: moysider on July 22, 2015, 12:25:30 PM
Liam McHale, Ronan McGarrity, Patrick Harte, David Brady.
And they are just the midfielders from one club.
McHale was asked to play but turned it down later that year he played for the under 21's.
Pretty sure James Horan did not play minor or 21!
James Nallen Minor?
Quote from: Hound on July 22, 2015, 02:04:02 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: ck on July 22, 2015, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:13:08 PM
Bernard Brogan,Kevin McManamon,Denis Bastic,Michael Fitzsimons and Eoghan O'Gara never played minor for Dublin
Really??! This is incredible. Just shows you that talent can slip through the net
Brogan done his cruciate when 18.They rest were late developers. Bastic, O'Gara and Fitzsimons didn't even play u21. They got their chance when Dublin won Junior Championship in 08. Brian Fenton Dublin new midfielder also didn't play minor due to injury
Not quite impossible, but it's almost impossible to break into the Dublin team now if you haven't played with the U21s previously - I don't think we even enter the Junior championship any more, making it particularly difficult for a lower league player to make it if he hasn't been picked up by the 21s.
It pity we don't enter junior team any more. 08 seemed to be only year took it serious as other years lads were just parachuted into team with little or no training.
Quote from: The Bearded One on July 22, 2015, 01:12:24 PM
Gormley played under 21s but not minors.
Did Philip Jordan play minor for Tyrone?
I believe he was on the 1997 team that lost to Laois in the All Ireland final.
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 22, 2015, 02:04:02 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: ck on July 22, 2015, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:13:08 PM
Bernard Brogan,Kevin McManamon,Denis Bastic,Michael Fitzsimons and Eoghan O'Gara never played minor for Dublin
Really??! This is incredible. Just shows you that talent can slip through the net
Brogan done his cruciate when 18.They rest were late developers. Bastic, O'Gara and Fitzsimons didn't even play u21. They got their chance when Dublin won Junior Championship in 08. Brian Fenton Dublin new midfielder also didn't play minor due to injury
Not quite impossible, but it's almost impossible to break into the Dublin team now if you haven't played with the U21s previously - I don't think we even enter the Junior championship any more, making it particularly difficult for a lower league player to make it if he hasn't been picked up by the 21s.
It pity we don't enter junior team any more. 08 seemed to be only year took it serious as other years lads were just parachuted into team with little or no training.
Seeing that it seems a very strange decision by Dublin GAA not to enter the junior any more. Anyone know the reason?
Quote from: Sleater on July 22, 2015, 01:45:28 PM
I don't think Karl O'Connell played minor for Monaghan. What about Ross Munnelly, he didn't play minor for Laois?
The thing about Karl O'Connell is that he never played football at all until he was about 18. He was involved in athletics in his youth. Then at about 18, he was persuaded to tog out for Tyholland, a small club – they'd struggle for numbers. And here he is now scoring a point and getting nominated for man of the match in an Ulster Final.
Quote from: Seamus on July 22, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
Bomber Liston, Tom Sullivan, Aidan Mahoney and Paul Murphy. The last three from the same club.
And all 4 were winners of an All-Ireland final Man Of The Match to boot. Bomber 78, O'Mahony 06, O'Sullivan 09, Murphy 14.
Quote from: blanketattack on July 22, 2015, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 22, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
Bomber Liston, Tom Sullivan, Aidan Mahoney and Paul Murphy. The last three from the same club.
And all 4 were winners of an All-Ireland final Man Of The Match to boot. Bomber 78, O'Mahony 06, O'Sullivan 09, Murphy 14.
top trivia that ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 22, 2015, 02:07:35 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 22, 2015, 12:25:30 PM
Liam McHale, Ronan McGarrity, Patrick Harte, David Brady.
And they are just the midfielders from one club.
McHale was asked to play but turned it down later that year he played for the under 21's.
Pretty sure James Horan did not play minor or 21!
James Nallen Minor?
.
There used to be a lot of political shenanigans when it came to Mayo minors. I heard of a lad who'd been on the panel all year getting released the Friday before the Connaught Final .LO and behold a nephew of one of the selectors was drafted in on the day. If you played for St Jarlaths senior team you were also "guaranteed" a starting role (all anecdotal of course)
Quote from: deiseach on July 22, 2015, 01:42:31 PM
Legend has it that Paul McGinley played Minor for Dublin before knee knack ended his career. The truth is far more interesting (http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/ryder-cup/paul-kimmage-interview-ryder-cup-captain-paul-mcginley-forged-in-gaa-furnace-30584751.html):
QuoteI loved Gaelic football. I had more of a talent for football than I had for golf. It came easier to me, I could see it. I was playing left half forward. Jim Stynes was our midfielder at Ballyboden and we had an understanding. I wasn't the biggest guy, but I was very accurate, good at passing and great at taking points from distance. But the one thing that was against me was my birth date - I was born on the 16th of December and with the GAA rules, I was underage to play club level but two weeks overage to play for Dublin and I could never get past the trials. I wasn't big enough.
...
I'd like to think I'd have played for Dublin. I'd like to think I would have been noticed at senior level and got a trial.
In short (pun unintended), it's not that surprising that many players slip through the net. Hundreds of young fellas to choose from and no objective way of sorting the wheat from the chaff - it must be so easy to pick the big uns. Then again, if you need evidence of the malaise in Cork hurling, look no further than how they overlooked Séamus Harnedy at both Minor and Under-21. The only way they could have missed him is that they were not looking.
The relative age effect, where kids born at the start of the year will out perform kids born towards the end of the year. Happens in all youth sports and contributes to failing to identify talent properly.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 22, 2015, 04:54:02 PM
The relative age effect, where kids born at the start of the year will out perform kids born towards the end of the year. Happens in all youth sports and contributes to failing to identify talent properly.
It's in Superfreakonomics (http://freakonomics.com/2011/11/02/the-disadvantages-of-summer-babies/), that among European soccer players "43 percent of players were born in the first thee months of the year, while only 9 percent were born in the final three months". Sorry, July-born son.
It's a theme in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers, too.
Damien Comer didn't play minor for Galway yet made the u21 team in his first year that win the All Ireland in 2013, didn't make the Jarlaths team either.
Talked to a former Minor County selector and he said that most players are picked from the best players from strong clubs, then the best players who have played with successful colleges/vocational after that there are a couple who will need to be outstanding to make it. When it comes down to picking the tail end of players who are at an equal level -above average but not brilliant, players from successful clubs and colleges are picked because they are more used to playing in bigger games. He said there are a lot of good to great players from small clubs but it is harder to take a chance on how they will perform on the bigger stages that players from bigger clubs are more used to.
Jayus from the bunker, George Orwell could write a book on that thread of yours alone ;D
Peter Withnell.
Aidan mccrory Tyrone corner back at the minute couldn't make the errigal U21 team that's how late he devoloped
Quote from: charlie linkbox on July 22, 2015, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: Sleater on July 22, 2015, 01:45:28 PM
I don't think Karl O'Connell played minor for Monaghan. What about Ross Munnelly, he didn't play minor for Laois?
The thing about Karl O'Connell is that he never played football at all until he was about 18. He was involved in athletics in his youth. Then at about 18, he was persuaded to tog out for Tyholland, a small club – they'd struggle for numbers. And here he is now scoring a point and getting nominated for man of the match in an Ulster Final.
Yeah O'Connell is a great example of a late developer. It's hard to imagine someone who picked up the game so late having such an impact on the championship that he is, I'd say he's made a contribution towards at least 6-7 points in Ulster between what he's scored and set up. He's always been athletic and had pace to burn, but I think his technical ability has really improved over the last year or so, he's obviously been working hard at it which is great to see.
Quote from: Clinker on July 22, 2015, 12:17:14 PM
Socrates.
Came on for Leitrim minors v UCD in 1972.
myth
Quote from: blanketattack on July 22, 2015, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 22, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
Bomber Liston, Tom Sullivan, Aidan Mahoney and Paul Murphy. The last three from the same club.
And all 4 were winners of an All-Ireland final Man Of The Match to boot. Bomber 78, O'Mahony 06, O'Sullivan 09, Murphy 14.
It's decent trivia but O'Mahony DID play minor in 1998. Had a few injuries I think and didn't start the semi final v Laois but did come on in that game.
Tom O'Sullivan never even made a minor panel though which looks amazing now given he won 5 All Irelands, Allstars, AI final MOM etc..
Been mentioned already but Outliers has some interesting discussion on this topic.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 22, 2015, 11:57:29 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 22, 2015, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 22, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
Bomber Liston, Tom Sullivan, Aidan Mahoney and Paul Murphy. The last three from the same club.
And all 4 were winners of an All-Ireland final Man Of The Match to boot. Bomber 78, O'Mahony 06, O'Sullivan 09, Murphy 14.
It's decent trivia but O'Mahony DID play minor in 1998. Had a few injuries I think and didn't start the semi final v Laois but did come on in that game.
Tom O'Sullivan never even made a minor panel though which looks amazing now given he won 5 All Irelands, Allstars, AI final MOM etc..
Been mentioned already but Outliers has some interesting discussion on this topic.
Tom Sullivan and Mike Mac two of the most underrated and most decorated players ever to play the game...never mind for Kerry. BTW Aidan Mahoney after last Saturday and last years AIF proving to be one of the toughest lads ever to tog out in the green and gold.
Quote from: Schkite on July 22, 2015, 09:38:59 PM
Quote from: charlie linkbox on July 22, 2015, 03:28:35 PM
Quote from: Sleater on July 22, 2015, 01:45:28 PM
I don't think Karl O'Connell played minor for Monaghan. What about Ross Munnelly, he didn't play minor for Laois?
The thing about Karl O'Connell is that he never played football at all until he was about 18. He was involved in athletics in his youth. Then at about 18, he was persuaded to tog out for Tyholland, a small club – they'd struggle for numbers. And here he is now scoring a point and getting nominated for man of the match in an Ulster Final.
Yeah O'Connell is a great example of a late developer. It's hard to imagine someone who picked up the game so late having such an impact on the championship that he is, I'd say he's made a contribution towards at least 6-7 points in Ulster between what he's scored and set up. He's always been athletic and had pace to burn, but I think his technical ability has really improved over the last year or so, he's obviously been working hard at it which is great to see.
He's leathal. Scored a great goal in first minute St clones the other year. Flying machine! Goal was against us (Antrim) BTW
Always looked out for him since
Quote from: redzone on July 22, 2015, 09:26:44 PM
Aidan mccrory Tyrone corner back at the minute couldn't make the errigal U21 team that's how late he devoloped
And the clonoe half back line..
Quote from: rrhf on July 23, 2015, 07:18:23 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 22, 2015, 10:46:17 PM
Quote from: Clinker on July 22, 2015, 12:17:14 PM
Socrates.
Came on for Leitrim minors v UCD in 1972.
Was socrates not a Roscommon man?
To know, is to know you know nothing. This is the meaning of true knowledge. Whatever about Socrates I'm sure I heard Jon Evans coming off with something along these lines the other week on Talksport to Woolie!!!
James Loughrey? Cork via Antrim. I know he took to GAA quite late but maybe someone can correct me whether he played minor level.
Quote from: rrhf on July 23, 2015, 07:18:23 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 22, 2015, 10:46:17 PM
Quote from: Clinker on July 22, 2015, 12:17:14 PM
Socrates.
Came on for Leitrim minors v UCD in 1972.
Was socrates not a Roscommon man?
"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of Drumshambo."
Kieran Quinn never played minor for Sligo. Now he plays from major to minor all across the country. ;)
Quote from: 5 Sams on July 23, 2015, 12:13:50 AM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 22, 2015, 11:57:29 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 22, 2015, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 22, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
Bomber Liston, Tom Sullivan, Aidan Mahoney and Paul Murphy. The last three from the same club.
And all 4 were winners of an All-Ireland final Man Of The Match to boot. Bomber 78, O'Mahony 06, O'Sullivan 09, Murphy 14.
It's decent trivia but O'Mahony DID play minor in 1998. Had a few injuries I think and didn't start the semi final v Laois but did come on in that game.
Tom O'Sullivan never even made a minor panel though which looks amazing now given he won 5 All Irelands, Allstars, AI final MOM etc..
Been mentioned already but Outliers has some interesting discussion on this topic.
Tom Sullivan and Mike Mac two of the most underrated and most decorated players ever to play the game...never mind for Kerry. BTW Aidan Mahoney after last Saturday and last years AIF proving to be one of the toughest lads ever to tog out in the green and gold.
On Tom and Mike Mac, surely anyone who really knows the game over the last 20 years can't "underrate" either of them? They were both superb defenders with plenty skill. Born in the same year aswell.
On Aidan, yeah he's just a warrior. 35 years of age and still dominating in top level games. Had to laugh at Dessie Dolan suggesting he was out of his depth at half time last Saturday. Dessie seems like a good "call it as I see it" lad, but not sure where he was getting that from. Mahony has been around since 2004 and despite a year or 2 where he struggled for fitness and the diving incident in 2008, he has been a huge player for us. I honestly thought he'd retire after last years final, but it just shows the desire he has to come back for more.
Never heard anyone say anything but superlatives about Tom Sullivan and Michael McCarthy. Great players and for the life of me I cannot understand how they were "underrated",
If you are looking for "underrated" Kerry players I would go no further than Seamus Scanlon and Tommy Griffin.
Both very effective but imo were always overshadowed by others. Imo of course.
If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much..
Quote from: Canalman on July 23, 2015, 04:46:37 PM
Never heard anyone say anything but superlatives about Tom Sullivan and Michael McCarthy. Great players and for the life of me I cannot understand how they were "underrated",
If you are looking for "underrated" Kerry players I would go no further than Seamus Scanlon and Tommy Griffin.
Both very effective but imo were always overshadowed by others. Imo of course.
Donncha Walsh must to be near the top of the underrated list also.
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:02:29 PM
If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much..
Are you just a bad WUM or are you really that clueless?
Quote from: Canalman on July 23, 2015, 04:46:37 PM
Never heard anyone say anything but superlatives about Tom Sullivan and Michael McCarthy. Great players and for the life of me I cannot understand how they were "underrated",
If you are looking for "underrated" Kerry players I would go no further than Seamus Scanlon and Tommy Griffin.
Both very effective but imo were always overshadowed by others. Imo of course.
Tommy was a very good player and did a great job whenever called on all over the field. Never got an extended run owing to injuries and the quality of others around him. Still, won 4 AI medals on the field of play, 5 total.
Scanlon did a great job for a couple of years there and really got the most out of himself. He didn't have the skills of the others mentioned though and his kicking was fairly awful at times. He got an Allstar in 2009 which was an amazing achievement considering he had been dropped from the Kerry squad around 2005, so can't say he was THAT underrated either!
Quote from: general_lee on July 23, 2015, 10:30:56 AM
James Loughrey? Cork via Antrim. I know he took to GAA quite late but maybe someone can correct me whether he played minor level.
James played both minor and u21 for Antrim unsurprisingly one of the stronger players they had.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:02:29 PM
If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much..
Are you just a bad WUM or are you really that clueless?
Football ability aside, has he botox or something lately? He looks way different
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 23, 2015, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:02:29 PM
If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much..
Are you just a bad WUM or are you really that clueless?
Football ability aside, has he botox or something lately? He looks way different
He's got some piece in fairness. She's fairly glam.
Think he's a culchie garrrrrd though so immediately dislike him.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:02:29 PM
If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much..
Are you just a bad WUM or are you really that clueless?
The usual over the top reaction from the man with the agenda.
O'Mahony is still a decent player but even you have to realise he isn't regularly dominating and that he has plenty of bodies in from of him to help out. He's a 35 year-old man for christsakes, and his lack of pace has caught him at times. The Kerry FB line has looked fragile more times in the big games you referred to him dominating in than it hasn't in recent years.
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:39:38 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:02:29 PM
If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much..
Are you just a bad WUM or are you really that clueless?
The usual over the top reaction from the man with the agenda.
O'Mahony is still a decent player but even you have to realise he isn't regularly dominating and that he has plenty of bodies in from of him to help out. He's a 35 year-old man for christsakes, and his lack of pace has caaught him at times. The Kerry FB has looked fragile more times than it hasn't in recent years.
"If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much.."Honest question, did you watch the whole game last Saturday night..and if so did you realise that Mahony was playing as a sweeper and NOT following Mark Collins out the field, so he WAS protecting the fullback line? Not, you know, needing protection as you said?
I shouldn't have high expectations of you by now, but thought you'd have least figured that out. He isn't
As for your "regularly dominating" argument...he was good or better in the 4 biggest games of the championship last year..is that regular?
Look, Aidan is probably on the last roll of the dice and certainly isn't able for nippy forwards the way he used to be, but last years replay in Limerick and the final were evidence of how effective he still can be at the very highest level.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:54:33 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:39:38 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:02:29 PM
If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much..
Are you just a bad WUM or are you really that clueless?
The usual over the top reaction from the man with the agenda.
O'Mahony is still a decent player but even you have to realise he isn't regularly dominating and that he has plenty of bodies in from of him to help out. He's a 35 year-old man for christsakes, and his lack of pace has caaught him at times. The Kerry FB has looked fragile more times than it hasn't in recent years.
"If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much.."
Honest question, did you watch the whole game last Saturday night..and if so did you realise that Mahony was playing as a sweeper and NOT following Mark Collins out the field, so he WAS protecting the fullback line? Not, you know, needing protection as you said?
I shouldn't have high expectations of you by now, but thought you'd have least figured that out. He isn't
As for your "regularly dominating" argument...he was good or better in the 4 biggest games of the championship last year..is that regular?
Look, Aidan is probably on the last roll of the dice and certainly isn't able for nippy forwards the way he used to be, but last years replay in Limerick and the final were evidence of how effective he still can be at the very highest level.
A sweeper in front of a FB line is still part of the FB line, they're a unit. Indeed you've hit the nail on the head, why would he be a sweeper sitting back if he was dominating opponents? He's being used used smartly by Fitzmaurice to get the best from his years of experience and awareness.
O'Mahony is still playing more minutes than would seem ideal. If it was him alone there you could write it off but when you have Marc O'Se lining up in the same line many times teams will and do look to exploit their weaknesses. I think their lack of pace is a big factor to why Kerry have went so defensive in big games under Fitzmaurice but clearly he feels the players under them are not better options (save dropping Marc for the Mayo game) so it is a concern whatever way you colour it.
You seem to think I'm dead set against Kerry. None of this means I think they're a bad side but the standard Kerry are judged against is higher than most other counties, particularly when they're one of only two (or three if I'm feeling extremely generous) teams that might have even a snowball's chance of stopping Dublin.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:19:42 PM
Quote from: Canalman on July 23, 2015, 04:46:37 PM
Never heard anyone say anything but superlatives about Tom Sullivan and Michael McCarthy. Great players and for the life of me I cannot understand how they were "underrated",
If you are looking for "underrated" Kerry players I would go no further than Seamus Scanlon and Tommy Griffin.
Both very effective but imo were always overshadowed by others. Imo of course.
Tommy was a very good player and did a great job whenever called on all over the field. Never got an extended run owing to injuries and the quality of others around him. Still, won 4 AI medals on the field of play, 5 total.
Scanlon did a great job for a couple of years there and really got the most out of himself. He didn't have the skills of the others mentioned though and his kicking was fairly awful at times. He got an Allstar in 2009 which was an amazing achievement considering he had been dropped from the Kerry squad around 2005, so can't say he was THAT underrated either!
Tommy had a really odd injury. He got a serious infection in his leg which left him out of action for 18 months to a year. I know the lad quite well and always say to him Michael Shields stole his All Star award in 2009. Tommy was superb for Kerry that year the whole way through at full back. However down through the years he spent the majority of his time at midfield though. Check out what Jack O'Connor said about him in his book....he used to get Tommy to wind Darragh up to get him going. No better man. 5 Celtic crosses isn't a bad return. If you are ever in Dingle call in to see him in Muiris Dan's in John St. If he's not there then his mate Pauric Corcoran will be there, current Maor Foirne for the Kerry senior team. If you want to talk football these lads and their customers will talk all night.
You should be named 37 sams.
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:54:33 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:39:38 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 23, 2015, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 23, 2015, 05:02:29 PM
If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much..
Are you just a bad WUM or are you really that clueless?
The usual over the top reaction from the man with the agenda.
O'Mahony is still a decent player but even you have to realise he isn't regularly dominating and that he has plenty of bodies in from of him to help out. He's a 35 year-old man for christsakes, and his lack of pace has caaught him at times. The Kerry FB has looked fragile more times than it hasn't in recent years.
"If Aidan O'Mahony was so dominating Kerry wouldn't need to protect their FB line so much.."
Honest question, did you watch the whole game last Saturday night..and if so did you realise that Mahony was playing as a sweeper and NOT following Mark Collins out the field, so he WAS protecting the fullback line? Not, you know, needing protection as you said?
I shouldn't have high expectations of you by now, but thought you'd have least figured that out. He isn't
As for your "regularly dominating" argument...he was good or better in the 4 biggest games of the championship last year..is that regular?
Look, Aidan is probably on the last roll of the dice and certainly isn't able for nippy forwards the way he used to be, but last years replay in Limerick and the final were evidence of how effective he still can be at the very highest level.
A sweeper in front of a FB line is still part of the FB line, they're a unit. Indeed you've hit the nail on the head, why would he be a sweeper sitting back if he was dominating opponents? He's being used used smartly by Fitzmaurice to get the best from his years of experience and awareness.
O'Mahony is still playing more minutes than would seem ideal. If it was him alone there you could write it off but when you have Marc O'Se lining up in the same line many times teams will and do look to exploit their weaknesses. I think their lack of pace is a big factor to why Kerry have went so defensive in big games under Fitzmaurice but clearly he feels the players under them are not better options (save dropping Marc for the Mayo game) so it is a concern whatever way you colour it.
You seem to think I'm dead set against Kerry. None of this means I think they're a bad side but the standard Kerry are judged against is higher than most other counties, particularly when they're one of only two (or three if I'm feeling extremely generous) teams that might have even a snowball's chance of stopping Dublin.
Y'know Sy that Kerry full back line would not have conceded 2-11 v Sligo like Mayo did. O Mahoney, O Sé can still be depended upon to manage situations. Mayo had a good defensive attitude v Sligo but the last line were a bag of nails. If we had those 2 Kerrymen the long wait would have ended already. All fine and well talking about marquee forwards but the lads that can deal with the marquee forwards just as important, or even more so. I see Hurley has been dropped by Cork after being lauded as special not so long ago.
Just seen a pic of the Kerry U21 All-Ireland Championship side from 1998, includes:
Tom O'Sullivan
Mike McCarthy
Tomas O'Sè
Tommy Griffen
Eamonn Fitzmaurice
Aodan McGearailt
Noel Kennelly
Decent return of Senior medals from that side.