This phrase drives me bonkers...why is this term used when 90% of the inter-county pitches are the same size?. On a thread there people are talking about Armagh getting exposed in the wide open spaces of Croke Park but they were practically invincible playing in Clones for about 7-8 years and if anything Clones is bigger than croke Park and if not there wouldn't be a meter in it...I had a list before of the dimensions of all the county grounds in Ireland and they're all within a meter or two of each other bar 2 or 3 so why has Croke Park got the wide open spaces but the rest of the pitches have not :-\
I'd say it's more of an optical illusion given the size of the stadium and the big crowd etc.
Aye it's all in their head.
Tell you what though. Davitt Park in Lurgan has to be the longest pitch in ireland, and I don't think that was all in my head. Always hated that place.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 22, 2014, 11:30:33 AM
Aye it's all in their head.
Tell you what though. Davitt Park in Lurgan has to be the longest pitch in ireland, and I don't think that was all in my head. Always hated that place.
lol...not any more Benny. It's 145m x 83m now but you're right about it previous. It was 154m long which was actually 10m longer than Croke Park and the kick from the midfield into the full forward line always caught the opposition out...
Quote from: 5 Sams on December 22, 2014, 11:25:58 AM
I'd say it's more of an optical illusion given the size of the stadium and the big crowd etc.
One of the O'Sé brothers said it felt much wider because the gap between the side line and the seats was so wide. It gave the impression of so much space as opposed to a metal fence a yard or 2 fom the side line
This has more to do with the wide open space between the ears of those talking about it.
Croke Park far wider and longer than St Conleths, thats for sure
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2014, 11:58:29 AM
This has more to do with the wide open space between the ears of those talking about it.
Sorry if this topic doesn't float your boat Muppet, maybe you should read some of the more interesting threads instead ;)
Quote from: LilySavage on December 22, 2014, 12:12:39 PM
Croke Park far wider and longer than St Conleths, thats for sure
Croke Park is 144m x 90m. I'm sure the stadium around the pitch gives it the optical illusion that's its actually much bigger than it actually is but the dimensions are what they are...
Quote from: illdecide on December 22, 2014, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2014, 11:58:29 AM
This has more to do with the wide open space between the ears of those talking about it.
Sorry if this topic doesn't float your boat Muppet, maybe you should read some of the more interesting threads instead ;)
Sorry I should have put the word 'writing', rather than 'talking', as I really meant the journalists who always refer to it as the 'wide-open spaces' of Croke Park.
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2014, 12:28:42 PM
Quote from: illdecide on December 22, 2014, 12:21:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2014, 11:58:29 AM
This has more to do with the wide open space between the ears of those talking about it.
Sorry if this topic doesn't float your boat Muppet, maybe you should read some of the more interesting threads instead ;)
Sorry I should have put the word 'writing', rather than 'talking', as I really meant the journalists who always refer to it as the 'wide-open spaces' of Croke Park.
+1. Lazy sports "journalism" at its worst.
Mind you
Prenty McHale park must barely qualify for minimum length - there seems to be only a metre or 2 between the 65 and the halfway lineen.
If any journalist was any use he would have a list of pitch dimensions to hand and could make intelligent observations, but the use of data seems alien to the Irish media.
It's a nonsense that pervades soccer as well. For Croke Park read the old Wembley. it's partly fuelled by the occasions making players knock their bollocks out and subsequently feel tireder (the majority of games on either have been latter stages of a knockout tourney), but mostly fuelled by the camera angle, which is set at 10-20% higher than any ground and as such makes it feel bigger.
To see the inverse of the second theory, watch BBCNI local soccer. The camera angle at those grounds makes the pitches look tiny and if truth be told, makes the action look weaker.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 22, 2014, 10:02:43 PM
It's a nonsense that pervades soccer as well. For Croke Park read the old Wembley. it's partly fuelled by the occasions making players knock their bollocks out and subsequently feel tireder (the majority of games on either have been latter stages of a knockout tourney), but mostly fuelled by the camera angle, which is set at 10-20% higher than any ground and as such makes it feel bigger.
To see the inverse of the second theory, watch BBCNI local soccer. The camera angle at those grounds makes the pitches look tiny and if truth be told, makes the action look weaker.
Definately right about the occasion getting to players and the experience of playing at Croke Park, I know players that have played there for the first time find it deceptive and it probably takes some getting used to. Specific example being a shot from between the 21 and 45 feels like much further out.
BBCNI local soccer is cabbage patch footy. The mind boggles actually that local soccer (amateur) is played on pitches way smaller than at the top level. That said, our inter-county matches are 35mins a side while club footy is 30mins.
Quote from: tiempo on December 22, 2014, 10:46:34 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 22, 2014, 10:02:43 PM
It's a nonsense that pervades soccer as well. For Croke Park read the old Wembley. it's partly fuelled by the occasions making players knock their bollocks out and subsequently feel tireder (the majority of games on either have been latter stages of a knockout tourney), but mostly fuelled by the camera angle, which is set at 10-20% higher than any ground and as such makes it feel bigger.
To see the inverse of the second theory, watch BBCNI local soccer. The camera angle at those grounds makes the pitches look tiny and if truth be told, makes the action look weaker.
Definately right about the occasion getting to players and the experience of playing at Croke Park, I know players that have played there for the first time find it deceptive and it probably takes some getting used to. Specific example being a shot from between the 21 and 45 feels like much further out.
BBCNI local soccer is cabbage patch footy. The mind boggles actually that local soccer (amateur) is played on pitches way smaller than at the top level. That said, our inter-county matches are 35mins a side while club footy is 30mins.
Soccer pitches are small the world over. Mind walking into Old Trafford when I was a nipper and couldn't get over how small it was ! Wembley was the same....there's not a council pitch in the Derry City area much smaller than Premier League pitches.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 12:56:05 PM
If any journalist was any use he would have a list of pitch dimensions to hand and could make intelligent observations, but the use of data seems alien to the Irish media.
Does such a list exist online? Because while I've no doubt that journalists are overstating the effect of pitch sizes, not all pitch sizes are the same. Man City's pitch for example, is a good 10% larger than West Ham's (http://www.openplay.co.uk/blog/premiership-football-pitch-sizes-2013-2014/).
Edit: there's a decent article on the subject, sensibly loaded with caveats about the reliability of Wikipedia, here (http://livegaelic.com/features/myth-wide-open-spaces-croke-park/).
Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2014, 09:33:33 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 12:56:05 PM
If any journalist was any use he would have a list of pitch dimensions to hand and could make intelligent observations, but the use of data seems alien to the Irish media.
Does such a list exist online? Because while I've no doubt that journalists are overstating the effect of pitch sizes, not all pitch sizes are the same. Man City's pitch for example, is a good 10% larger than West Ham's (http://www.openplay.co.uk/blog/premiership-football-pitch-sizes-2013-2014/).
Edit: there's a decent article on the subject, sensibly loaded with caveats about the reliability of Wikipedia, here (http://livegaelic.com/features/myth-wide-open-spaces-croke-park/).
Deiseach there is def a min and max size by the FA for pitches and there is a different size criteria for Champions League as I've seen Celtic having to make amendments to their pitch markings prior to CL games...
Forgot to say its the same for GAA. Croke Park states GAA pitch sizes should be 130m x 80m (min, think that's the min) and 145m x 90m (max)
Quote from: illdecide on December 23, 2014, 10:48:14 AM
Deiseach there is def a min and max size by the FA for pitches and there is a different size criteria for Champions League as I've seen Celtic having to make amendments to their pitch markings prior to CL games...
Sure, but there has to be a maximum size that a pitch is capable of taking. I've been pottering around online about the subject this morning and seen suggestions that some pitches are the full 90m wide while others are nudging 80m. If that's the case, having an additional five-metre-wide strip running down each sideline is a lot of extra real estate.
As an aside, I seem to recall that when Rangers (RIP) narrowed the pitch at Ibrox for a European game against Dynamo Kiev (http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/995-June-2010/5413-possible-costs-of-footballing-skullduggery), they assumed that SFA regs were applicable and were relieved to find out after the event that they were inches away from having set it up too narrow for Uefa's regs!
http://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/rules-and-specifications/rules-of-specifications/ (http://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/rules-and-specifications/rules-of-specifications/)
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-1---the-field-of-play (http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-1---the-field-of-play)
Knock yourself out ;)
Quote from: illdecide on December 23, 2014, 10:49:43 AM
Forgot to say its the same for GAA. Croke Park states GAA pitch sizes should be 130m x 80m (min, think that's the min) and 145m x 90m (max)
I could never understand why Davitt was as long as it was, surely with all your wee men and bastardised game that you lot ran over the years of handball a small, tight pitch would have suited you better to swamp around all the bigger men from other clubs!
Quote from: illdecide on December 23, 2014, 12:10:57 PM
http://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/rules-and-specifications/rules-of-specifications/ (http://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/rules-and-specifications/rules-of-specifications/)
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-1---the-field-of-play (http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-1---the-field-of-play)
Knock yourself out ;)
Very nice. Now does anyone have a list of the dimensions of inter-county grounds?
Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2014, 12:31:29 PM
Quote from: illdecide on December 23, 2014, 12:10:57 PM
http://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/rules-and-specifications/rules-of-specifications/ (http://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/rules-and-specifications/rules-of-specifications/)
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-1---the-field-of-play (http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-1---the-field-of-play)
Knock yourself out ;)
I actually did have it, not sure what I've done with them but I think they're on my PC at home...i'll have a look for them over Christmas holidays and post them up if I can find them...If I remember from reading them a lot of them a lot of guys on the Board were surprised at some of the pitches dimensions...they thought some were a lot tighter than they actually were.
Very nice. Now does anyone have a list of the dimensions of inter-county grounds?
Quote from: illdecide on December 23, 2014, 12:37:58 PM
I actually did have it, not sure what I've done with them but I think they're on my PC at home...i'll have a look for them over Christmas holidays and post them up if I can find them...If I remember from reading them a lot of them a lot of guys on the Board were surprised at some of the pitches dimensions...they thought some were a lot tighter than they actually were.
Bless your geeky heart!
Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2014, 12:44:19 PM
Quote from: illdecide on December 23, 2014, 12:37:58 PM
I actually did have it, not sure what I've done with them but I think they're on my PC at home...i'll have a look for them over Christmas holidays and post them up if I can find them...If I remember from reading them a lot of them a lot of guys on the Board were surprised at some of the pitches dimensions...they thought some were a lot tighter than they actually were.
Bless your geeky heart!
Ahh tanks...think I saved it along with the Mucksavage thread ;)