I have only ever coached at underage and college level and have never taken a penny anywhere but have I been elected onto our club committee this year and my first role is to get a senior manage for the club side and we have agreed a small-ish budget for same.
Can I please ask you all for an idea what clubs and counties are offering coaches and managers out there with regard to expenses. I have heard of everything from a euro a mile to €200 a session, but to be honest I haven't a clue what is reasonable and what is excessive. Can you all let me know what your clubs offer if you are privy to such info?
Quote from: ck on December 16, 2014, 10:11:47 PM
I have only ever coached at underage and college level and have never taken a penny anywhere but have I been elected onto our club committee this year and my first role is to get a senior manage for the club side and we have agreed a small-ish budget for same.
Can I please ask you all for an idea what clubs and counties are offering coaches and managers out there with regard to expenses. I have heard of everything from a euro a mile to €200 a session, but to be honest I haven't a clue what is reasonable and what is excessive. Can you all let me know what your clubs offer if you are privy to such info?
This isn't what you want to hear but there is little evidence to suggest that paid mangers have any greater success than unpaid at club level. If your club is anything like ours I'm sure there's better ways of spending that money.
First man i've heard of elected onto a club committee
Quote from: Last Man on December 16, 2014, 11:15:06 PM
Quote from: ck on December 16, 2014, 10:11:47 PM
I have only ever coached at underage and college level and have never taken a penny anywhere but have I been elected onto our club committee this year and my first role is to get a senior manage for the club side and we have agreed a small-ish budget for same.
Can I please ask you all for an idea what clubs and counties are offering coaches and managers out there with regard to expenses. I have heard of everything from a euro a mile to €200 a session, but to be honest I haven't a clue what is reasonable and what is excessive. Can you all let me know what your clubs offer if you are privy to such info?
This isn't what you want to hear but there is little evidence to suggest that paid mangers have any greater success than unpaid at club level. If your club is anything like ours I'm sure there's better ways of spending that money.
Couldn't agree more. I'm actually anti payment of managers and am currently fighting that battle in my club atm, however I am simply keen to be more informed on this issue therefore am seeking opinion via this forum. All views and experiences welcome!
The best managers are internal from experience.
save the money
spend it on the players - gear, team bonding, few guest coaches
Very few inside men want the job of managing their own team and the few that do might not be wanted.
When these same people go to outside clubs they are given good expenses and the pool of inside men gets smaller and smaller.
Manager- £150 a week, trainer, £100 a week. These aren't expenses but a salary. Great gaels.
from what i have heard, upwards of £70 session would be the norm at the minute.
There are still a few guys out there that are willing to manage an outside club for nothing or at least for minimum genuine mileage expenses, but unfortuneatly theya re few and far between.
Very few people nowadays anyway can give the time or effort to look after a club's first team. Club players expect if not demand top drawer treatment/ training/ personalized training plans etc etc. Holding down a job now the priority for most people and as much as they would like they cannot commit to it.
Those clubs that have club members willing and able to commit the time/ effort/ hassle/ sometimes abuse/ falling outs and emotional energy to looking after the first team should thank their lucky stars imo. Lots of clubs not so lucky.
If it is a matter of no one in the club being able to do the gig then the club have no option but to look elsewhere.
Quote from: Canalman on December 17, 2014, 10:11:59 AM
Very few people nowadays anyway can give the time or effort to look after a club's first team. Club players expect if not demand top drawer treatment/ training/ personalized training plans etc etc. Holding down a job now the priority for most people and as much as they would like they cannot commit to it.
Those clubs that have club members willing and able to commit the time/ effort/ hassle/ sometimes abuse/ falling outs and emotional energy to looking after the first team should thank their lucky stars imo. Lots of clubs not so lucky.
If it is a matter of no one in the club being able to do the gig then the club have no option but to look elsewhere.
Never a truer word spoken. With so many players now having coaching qualifications they demand high standards. My own club got to the county final for this past 2 years and won the league but the senior players oussted the manager because of his training methods. Micko wouldnt last a craic with the current players expectations. Raymond Monroe would be a relatively modern coach/manager and he couldn't wait to get out of the game.
Yee have hit the nail on the head lads. We have some interest from a few lads to manage the team for nothing but this is deemed as totally unacceptable by the players. The team captain came to our last meeting and said he and a few others would not be playing unless we got and paid for an outside man. he also had a wish list of who they wanted. The reality is if we stuck to our guns and went for a club man then we'd have no team. This is the way it has gone!
Quote from: ck on December 17, 2014, 01:10:08 PM
Yee have hit the nail on the head lads. We have some interest from a few lads to manage the team for nothing but this is deemed as totally unacceptable by the players. The team captain came to our last meeting and said he and a few others would not be playing unless we got and paid for an outside man. he also had a wish list of who they wanted. The reality is if we stuck to our guns and went for a club man then we'd have no team. This is the way it has gone!
then you tell the players who are objecting to f**k off, u'll find it's only one r two really. The tail is wagging the dog at your club. the committee should appoint a manager they feel is capable and that should be the end of it...
As or payments the manager should receive his fuel for his travel and that's it...
Quote from: illdecide on December 17, 2014, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: ck on December 17, 2014, 01:10:08 PM
Yee have hit the nail on the head lads. We have some interest from a few lads to manage the team for nothing but this is deemed as totally unacceptable by the players. The team captain came to our last meeting and said he and a few others would not be playing unless we got and paid for an outside man. he also had a wish list of who they wanted. The reality is if we stuck to our guns and went for a club man then we'd have no team. This is the way it has gone!
then you tell the players who are objecting to f**k off, u'll find it's only one r two really. The tail is wagging the dog at your club. the committee should appoint a manager they feel is capable and that should be the end of it...
As or payments the manager should receive his fuel for his travel and that's it...
Cant help but agree with this!
The day that players start to dictate to the committee in a club is a bad day for that club. There is a serious gravy train going on for a select number of coaches in Ulster who just go from club to club getting a tidy sum from each. Are they helping the clubs by developing structures and leaving a legacy with the club? No is the simple answer they are looking out for number one and too the next club who will pay them their expenses.
then you tell the players who are objecting to f**k off, u'll find it's only one r two really. The tail is wagging the dog at your club. the committee should appoint a manager they feel is capable and that should be the end of it...
As or payments the manager should receive his fuel for his travel and that's it...
[/quote]
So basically what you are saying is - the manager who deals with:
. setting up training for each night it takes place, making it interesting, enjoyable, functional and
most of all geared towards the team play or system being adopted for the season
. developing individual training plans for players in the gym
. organising challenge games for the club before the season takes off
dealing with internal issues within the team - egos, non availability for games because of
bulls**t reasons, players who train when it suits them, players who play against the weaker
teams only as they will shine and phonecalls about why i should be playing for the team and i
have put in a mighty effort this season and i am not getting a chance etc etc
. Organise a team weekend before the league/championship that is going to be effective for the
competition ahead
. No county players as they are starred and not available so you need to rejig the team for the
games ahead and include younger players/older players with experience to fill the void left by
your best players.
. travelling maybe up to 45 mins to get to the pitch, be there 30+ mins before the players to set
up the session and have it ready, train for 75 mins and travel home again
(almost a 3 1/2 hour window)
. Dealing with a committee that have hired you to win the league and championship double -
even though last year the team finished 6th and 10 points behind the winners of the
competition.
This list is not exhaustive........
And this person should receive fuel for their travel - thats it. Take your dinosaur suit off and come into the real world you idiot...
Quote from: pauly2 on December 17, 2014, 02:14:43 PM
then you tell the players who are objecting to f**k off, u'll find it's only one r two really. The tail is wagging the dog at your club. the committee should appoint a manager they feel is capable and that should be the end of it...
As or payments the manager should receive his fuel for his travel and that's it...
So basically what you are saying is - the manager who deals with:
. setting up training for each night it takes place, making it interesting, enjoyable, functional and
most of all geared towards the team play or system being adopted for the season
. developing individual training plans for players in the gym
. organising challenge games for the club before the season takes off
dealing with internal issues within the team - egos, non availability for games because of
bulls**t reasons, players who train when it suits them, players who play against the weaker
teams only as they will shine and phonecalls about why i should be playing for the team and i
have put in a mighty effort this season and i am not getting a chance etc etc
. Organise a team weekend before the league/championship that is going to be effective for the
competition ahead
. No county players as they are starred and not available so you need to rejig the team for the
games ahead and include younger players/older players with experience to fill the void left by
your best players.
. travelling maybe up to 45 mins to get to the pitch, be there 30+ mins before the players to set
up the session and have it ready, train for 75 mins and travel home again
(almost a 3 1/2 hour window)
. Dealing with a committee that have hired you to win the league and championship double -
even though last year the team finished 6th and 10 points behind the winners of the
competition.
This list is not exhaustive........
And this person should receive fuel for their travel - thats it. Take your dinosaur suit off and come into the real world you idiot...
[/quote]
Not including the x amount of hours a week looking at videos of games, analyzing the stats from the previous games, discussing with selectors the different issues that arise, working the squad around holidays, weddings, stags, unavailability due to soccer/rugby/twiddly winks. The reality is that as a manager at any decent level you are expected to deliver results. Players come to training/games/gyms and then go home. They don't have any other 'required' work. A manager of a senior team will easily put 15 -20 hours a week in if they are doing the job as is expected of them.
Not including the x amount of hours a week looking at videos of games, analyzing the stats from the previous games, discussing with selectors the different issues that arise, working the squad around holidays, weddings, stags, unavailability due to soccer/rugby/twiddly winks. The reality is that as a manager at any decent level you are expected to deliver results. Players come to training/games/gyms and then go home. They don't have any other 'required' work. A manager of a senior team will easily put 15 -20 hours a week in if they are doing the job as is expected of them.
[/quote]
Couldnt agree more. Like i said - my list was not exhaustive - im sure i left loads off it... You make very good points above i forgot about. But some of these small minded people dont see what goes on - they just live in the dark ages of thinking when ya turn up to training - everything is automatically set up and the session runs itself. and the phone never rings!! Mental..
Managers are putting in more hours maybe so but a lot of them are getting paid per session. Players are being asked for more and more by managers motivated by money. A lot of managers getting paid are worth that, a lot of clubs are getting milked dry by below par managers receiving £100-200 a week.
It is getting harder to raise funds for the day to day running of clubs. Paying an outside man is a luxury some clubs can't meet.
Quote from: illdecide on December 17, 2014, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: ck on December 17, 2014, 01:10:08 PM
Yee have hit the nail on the head lads. We have some interest from a few lads to manage the team for nothing but this is deemed as totally unacceptable by the players. The team captain came to our last meeting and said he and a few others would not be playing unless we got and paid for an outside man. he also had a wish list of who they wanted. The reality is if we stuck to our guns and went for a club man then we'd have no team. This is the way it has gone!
then you tell the players who are objecting to f**k off, u'll find it's only one r two really. The tail is wagging the dog at your club. the committee should appoint a manager they feel is capable and that should be the end of it...
As or payments the manager should receive his fuel for his travel and that's it...
Wish the world was as simple as you make it out to be. The reality is that those who are interested are generally not deemed qualified or fit for purpose. No-one outside is interested unless we pay. That's the stark reality, much as I dislike it.
Quote from: DennistheMenace on December 17, 2014, 03:06:51 PM
Managers are putting in more hours maybe so but a lot of them are getting paid per session. Players are being asked for more and more by managers motivated by money. A lot of managers getting paid are worth that, a lot of clubs are getting milked dry by below par managers receiving £100-200 a week.
Puts into perspective the amount of hours chairmen, secretaries and treasurers, etc do.....for SFA!
We live in crazy times. We are an amateur association based on the spirit of volunteerism. Any commitment asked of club members be they players or officials should acknowledge and be guided by that fact. A manager who seeks payment is a mercenary who should be shown the Door. Attempts to justify payments by extending their job description far beyond that which is necessary, is merely a ploy. Has the modern day addiction to advanced training methods produced better footballers, i see no evidence of that.
The beating Heart of any Club is its local volunteers, with their pride of place and sense of community. A Clubs success can not be measured in Trophies, indeed some of the most active and effective clubs are rarely winners on the field of play. Too recognise the contribution of one individual through monetary payment, demeans and denigrates the equally valid and important contribution of the volunteer who may put in as many hours on Club business. Lets get back to cutting our Suit according to our cloth, before we destroy ourselves
Quote from: Pangurban on December 17, 2014, 09:28:56 PM
We live in crazy times. We are an amateur association based on the spirit of volunteerism. Any commitment asked of club members be they players or officials should acknowledge and be guided by that fact. A manager who seeks payment is a mercenary who should be shown the Door. Attempts to justify payments by extending their job description far beyond that which is necessary, is merely a ploy. Has the modern day addiction to advanced training methods produced better footballers, i see no evidence of that.
The beating Heart of any Club is its local volunteers, with their pride of place and sense of community. A Clubs success can not be measured in Trophies, indeed some of the most active and effective clubs are rarely winners on the field of play. Too recognise the contribution of one individual through monetary payment, demeans and denigrates the equally valid and important contribution of the volunteer who may put in as many hours on Club business. Lets get back to cutting our Suit according to our cloth, before we destroy ourselves
The answer to that question is yes, exponentially so. Leaving aside the phenomenal athletic development as the generations pass, the execution of the skills of the game have improved no end. A glance through old games demonstrates that very simply. It's not a sleight on previous generations - they and they're games were a product of their environment.
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 17, 2014, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on December 17, 2014, 09:28:56 PM
We live in crazy times. We are an amateur association based on the spirit of volunteerism. Any commitment asked of club members be they players or officials should acknowledge and be guided by that fact. A manager who seeks payment is a mercenary who should be shown the Door. Attempts to justify payments by extending their job description far beyond that which is necessary, is merely a ploy. Has the modern day addiction to advanced training methods produced better footballers, i see no evidence of that.
The beating Heart of any Club is its local volunteers, with their pride of place and sense of community. A Clubs success can not be measured in Trophies, indeed some of the most active and effective clubs are rarely winners on the field of play. Too recognise the contribution of one individual through monetary payment, demeans and denigrates the equally valid and important contribution of the volunteer who may put in as many hours on Club business. Lets get back to cutting our Suit according to our cloth, before we destroy ourselves
The answer to that question is yes, exponentially so. Leaving aside the phenomenal athletic development as the generations pass, the execution of the skills of the game have improved no end. A glance through old games demonstrates that very simply. It's not a sleight on previous generations - they and they're games were a product of their environment.
Thats debatable many would say too much is put into athletic development nowadays and the skill level is becoming less. Very few top championship games this year for example 1991 had many classic games however todays game isn't helped by the over the top on tactics.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 17, 2014, 10:09:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 17, 2014, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on December 17, 2014, 09:28:56 PM
We live in crazy times. We are an amateur association based on the spirit of volunteerism. Any commitment asked of club members be they players or officials should acknowledge and be guided by that fact. A manager who seeks payment is a mercenary who should be shown the Door. Attempts to justify payments by extending their job description far beyond that which is necessary, is merely a ploy. Has the modern day addiction to advanced training methods produced better footballers, i see no evidence of that.
The beating Heart of any Club is its local volunteers, with their pride of place and sense of community. A Clubs success can not be measured in Trophies, indeed some of the most active and effective clubs are rarely winners on the field of play. Too recognise the contribution of one individual through monetary payment, demeans and denigrates the equally valid and important contribution of the volunteer who may put in as many hours on Club business. Lets get back to cutting our Suit according to our cloth, before we destroy ourselves
The answer to that question is yes, exponentially so. Leaving aside the phenomenal athletic development as the generations pass, the execution of the skills of the game have improved no end. A glance through old games demonstrates that very simply. It's not a sleight on previous generations - they and they're games were a product of their environment.
Thats debatable many would say too much is put into athletic development nowadays and the skill level is becoming less. Very few top championship games this year for example 1991 had many classic games however todays game isn't helped by the over the top on tactics.
Just because there is a lot of OTT tactics doesn't mean that the individual players are not better footballers. Much of our memories of old football is based around Sunday game highlights and AI semis and finals when the best teams in the country are on the TV. There were as many rank bad games back in the day then there were good and the basic levels of a lot of players was suspect to say the least.
Simple solution I'd imagine is to tell the players they can have their outside man if they organise a fundraiser to help pay his expenses.
Quote from: yellowcard on December 17, 2014, 10:56:33 PM
Simple solution I'd imagine is to tell the players they can have their outside man if they organise a fundraiser to help pay his expenses.
Yes this is exactly what we've asked of them and in fairness they have agreed. My initial question remains however - what do good coaches get/ask for? Do clubs receive demands and then negotiate? What is the norm?
Quote from: yellowcard on December 17, 2014, 10:56:33 PM
Simple solution I'd imagine is to tell the players they can have their outside man if they organise a fundraiser to help pay his expenses.
In some clubs the players pay a small sum per month by direct debit towards spying for an external manager which goes well until the subs decide they should belaying and cancel the direct debit.
Quote from: orangeman on December 18, 2014, 12:24:31 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on December 17, 2014, 10:56:33 PM
Simple solution I'd imagine is to tell the players they can have their outside man if they organise a fundraiser to help pay his expenses.
In some clubs the players pay a small sum per month by direct debit towards spying for an external manager which goes well until the subs decide they should belaying and cancel the direct debit.
Bloody subs always wanting to belaying!
Its easy for players to demand this man and that man. In my club we had this bull for years. The same players wont put their hand in their pocket or wont do any fundraising. Its always left to someone else. They have had won a few championships but when they lose its the managers fault and they want him gone to be replaced by someone more high profile every year.
Quote from: Blue in hope on December 18, 2014, 03:13:27 PM
Its easy for players to demand this man and that man. In my club we had this bull for years. The same players wont put their hand in their pocket or wont do any fundraising. Its always left to someone else. They have had won a few championships but when they lose its the managers fault and they want him gone to be replaced by someone more high profile every year.
that would be a great club if it wasn't for them pesky players eh? :P
Quote from: pauly2 on December 17, 2014, 02:14:43 PM
then you tell the players who are objecting to f**k off, u'll find it's only one r two really. The tail is wagging the dog at your club. the committee should appoint a manager they feel is capable and that should be the end of it...
As or payments the manager should receive his fuel for his travel and that's it...
So basically what you are saying is - the manager who deals with:
. setting up training for each night it takes place, making it interesting, enjoyable, functional and
most of all geared towards the team play or system being adopted for the season
. developing individual training plans for players in the gym
. organising challenge games for the club before the season takes off
dealing with internal issues within the team - egos, non availability for games because of
bulls**t reasons, players who train when it suits them, players who play against the weaker
teams only as they will shine and phonecalls about why i should be playing for the team and i
have put in a mighty effort this season and i am not getting a chance etc etc
. Organise a team weekend before the league/championship that is going to be effective for the
competition ahead
. No county players as they are starred and not available so you need to rejig the team for the
games ahead and include younger players/older players with experience to fill the void left by
your best players.
. travelling maybe up to 45 mins to get to the pitch, be there 30+ mins before the players to set
up the session and have it ready, train for 75 mins and travel home again
(almost a 3 1/2 hour window)
. Dealing with a committee that have hired you to win the league and championship double -
even though last year the team finished 6th and 10 points behind the winners of the
competition.
This list is not exhaustive........
And this person should receive fuel for their travel - thats it. Take your dinosaur suit off and come into the real world you idiot...
[/quote]
I know i may have been a bit OTT but i detest guys who roam from club to club getting their £300 per week and they don't give one flying f**k about the club they're at. They stay one or two seasons and then move on to the next club. If the manager wants to appoint a trainer he should def not be out of pocket but 95% of clubs cannot afford to pay their fee's to the county boards never mind managers, trainers and whoever else is looking their cake. 99% of managers are ex players and they know the score regarding training and gym work. All the phone calls and excuses are part and parcel of being a manager...who else would organise friendlies? players?
I know I'm a bit old school but majority of clubs have good men at their own clubs who can do a job without fleecing them and have trainers to assist them but i believe they should receive expenses to cover calls and fuel but that's as far as I'd be prepared to go.
Less of the insults...
Tonight we met an outside man who the players wanted. To be honest lads, haven spoken to him he'd be miles ahead of anything we'd have in our club. I hate the thought of paying an outsider but tonight opened my eyes in terms of what an outsider could do. His ideas were superb and his passion was very obvious. I'm sold.
We get what we pay for I suppose.
Quote from: illdecide on December 18, 2014, 05:52:39 PM
then you tell the players who are objecting to f**k off, u'll find it's only one r two really. The tail is wagging the dog at your club. the committee should appoint a manager they feel is capable and that should be the end of it...
As or payments the manager should receive his fuel for his travel and that's it...
So basically what you are saying is - the manager who deals with:
. setting up training for each night it takes place, making it interesting, enjoyable, functional and
most of all geared towards the team play or system being adopted for the season
. developing individual training plans for players in the gym
. organising challenge games for the club before the season takes off
dealing with internal issues within the team - egos, non availability for games because of
bulls**t reasons, players who train when it suits them, players who play against the weaker
teams only as they will shine and phonecalls about why i should be playing for the team and i
have put in a mighty effort this season and i am not getting a chance etc etc
. Organise a team weekend before the league/championship that is going to be effective for the
competition ahead
. No county players as they are starred and not available so you need to rejig the team for the
games ahead and include younger players/older players with experience to fill the void left by
your best players.
. travelling maybe up to 45 mins to get to the pitch, be there 30+ mins before the players to set
up the session and have it ready, train for 75 mins and travel home again
(almost a 3 1/2 hour window)
. Dealing with a committee that have hired you to win the league and championship double -
even though last year the team finished 6th and 10 points behind the winners of the
competition.
This list is not exhaustive........
And this person should receive fuel for their travel - thats it. Take your dinosaur suit off and come into the real world you idiot...
I know i may have been a bit OTT but i detest guys who roam from club to club getting their £300 per week and they don't give one flying f**k about the club they're at. They stay one or two seasons and then move on to the next club. If the manager wants to appoint a trainer he should def not be out of pocket but 95% of clubs cannot afford to pay their fee's to the county boards never mind managers, trainers and whoever else is looking their cake. 99% of managers are ex players and they know the score regarding training and gym work. All the phone calls and excuses are part and parcel of being a manager...who else would organise friendlies? players?
I know I'm a bit old school but majority of clubs have good men at their own clubs who can do a job without fleecing them and have trainers to assist them but i believe they should receive expenses to cover calls and fuel but that's as far as I'd be prepared to go.
Less of the insults...
Not trying to insult you or anyone else, but this "shur Mikey/Tommy/Johnny from our own parish is as good as anyone" - attitude is complete nonsense...98% of people involved in GAA (roughly) would have no clue about proper S&C, putting a proper periodisation plan in place etc..that's my view from what I've encountered anyway. IF you are lucky enough to have someone with real knowledge involved in your club, the problem then is often getting people (players/officials) to buy into a proper training programme as some GAA heads think that if you're not horsing tyres around a field or running up hills, then you're not working hard enough.
Overall, my view is that if you have a proper trainer/coach who ISN'T a complete bluffer and who really commits to a team (not just doing the training and then f*cking off) then he/she deserves to get paid. Some managers/coaches/bluffers charge extortionate money which I don't like either, but it's living in the past to expect a decent trainer to give up 10 hours + per week (along with administrative stuff, meetings etc) for 50 cent/mile. I see the incoming President railed against paying anyone there the other day..When are we going to get an Uachtaráin who doesn't have his head in the sand I wonder? ::)
Quote from: Blue in hope on December 18, 2014, 03:13:27 PM
Its easy for players to demand this man and that man. In my club we had this bull for years. The same players wont put their hand in their pocket or wont do any fundraising. Its always left to someone else. They have had won a few championships but when they lose its the managers fault and they want him gone to be replaced by someone more high profile every year.
If the S&C + Coach + all the ancillary stuff + the manager is worth that much it will obviously be reflected in the success of the club.
If that is genuinely happening then only the clubs that can afford such people will be successful. Our championships will then logically come down to the fundraising ability of each club.
And that means success at that level comes purely down to money.
Is that what we want?
Quote from: ck on December 18, 2014, 09:38:53 PM
Tonight we met an outside man who the players wanted. To be honest lads, haven spoken to him he'd be miles ahead of anything we'd have in our club. I hate the thought of paying an outsider but tonight opened my eyes in terms of what an outsider could do. His ideas were superb and his passion was very obvious. I'm sold.
We get what we pay for I suppose.
Ye'll know in a few months.
The GAA should be doing far more in terms of helping/putting pressure on clubs to develop coaches/managers internally.
There has been some efforts at this but I think they are fairly limited and can vary from county to county.
If the GAA offered decent courses for managers/trainers to complete for free or at subsidised prices to improve the standards it would make clubs far less likely to go for outsiders.
Quote from: twohands!!! on December 19, 2014, 07:49:59 AM
The GAA should be doing far more in terms of helping/putting pressure on clubs to develop coaches/managers internally.
There has been some efforts at this but I think they are fairly limited and can vary from county to county.
If the GAA offered decent courses for managers/trainers to complete for free or at subsidised prices to improve the standards it would make clubs far less likely to go for outsiders.
There are many many courses out there for people to attend. Thy have to want to attend them though. The only point i would bring up here is that an ordinary decent fella about the club who aint that hot on the pitch goes and does this course and takes the reins in a few years - he has never played senior football, seconds or anything above minor. Will the county stars of the club or the lads who have the last word on everything listen to this man - no. From previous experience about our club in the town - if the manager has no background - he is wasting his time.
Then on the other side of that is if you have someone who played county football and was successful, played club and carried the club for years and gets to 35 ish and retires and you suggest him going on this course to become manager - he will look at you and say with all the experience i have you are sending me on a course - i dont think so.
Double edged sword....
Quote from: ck on December 18, 2014, 09:38:53 PM
Tonight we met an outside man who the players wanted. To be honest lads, haven spoken to him he'd be miles ahead of anything we'd have in our club. I hate the thought of paying an outsider but tonight opened my eyes in terms of what an outsider could do. His ideas were superb and his passion was very obvious. I'm sold.
We get what we pay for I suppose.
So how much are you getting a session?
Is there a case for the manager having to be a memebr of the club he is managing the same as a player would be?
do away with 'outside' managers completly unless they are willing to transfer from their own club.
Quote from: twohands!!! on December 19, 2014, 07:49:59 AM
The GAA should be doing far more in terms of helping/putting pressure on clubs to develop coaches/managers internally.
There has been some efforts at this but I think they are fairly limited and can vary from county to county.
If the GAA offered decent courses for managers/trainers to complete for free or at subsidised prices to improve the standards it would make clubs far less likely to go for outsiders.
All very well but all the courses in the world cannot manufacture the extra hours in the day , understanding boss (whose business is recession proof), understanding wife/family etc etc needed to look after a first team in a club whose expectations of a manager have gone through the roof.
Heaven help if there isn't two physios at each training, a personalized training plan, ice buckets (or whatever is the current fad), the training "isn't interesting", the training is delayed a bit to allow an underage team finish its training, an army training camp arranged pre season, training run like clockwork ............ the list is endless. Throw in maybe having to drop a player you have played with yourself in the past and the grief and hassle that ensues.
Then the manager is a "chump".
As I said if you can get a clubman or men that are able to do that then you are extremely lucky.
Alot of clubs not so lucky and probably have to get someone in.
Think alot of the spoofers have been well and truly caught out by now.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on December 19, 2014, 09:16:41 AM
Is there a case for the manager having to be a memebr of the club he is managing the same as a player would be?
do away with 'outside' managers completly unless they are willing to transfer from their own club.
100% agree. I proposed this in my own club. I think a manager should be the same as a player in that you have to transfer club/county to manage them.
As for the comment above about lads going on training courses, we have a club full of lads who have been on courses but the bottom line is that they are not the right men in the players eyes. They don't carry the respect unfortunately.
Quote from: ck on December 19, 2014, 10:36:46 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on December 19, 2014, 09:16:41 AM
Is there a case for the manager having to be a memebr of the club he is managing the same as a player would be?
do away with 'outside' managers completly unless they are willing to transfer from their own club.
100% agree. I proposed this in my own club. I think a manager should be the same as a player in that you have to transfer club/county to manage them.
As for the comment above about lads going on training courses, we have a club full of lads who have been on courses but the bottom line is that they are not the right men in the players eyes. They don't carry the respect unfortunately.
Well if the players are demanding managers who are paid, tell them they can either pay for it themselves or organise their own fundraising/sponsorship to pay for the cost of it.
Tell them that the priority for the club will be the juvenile section and that will be the first priority for any additional funds.
Too many clubs have the senior team as the be all and end all of everything the club does and they gobble up an unfair amount of the available finances in the club. Tell them the club has decided on a longer-term approach and is reducing the cost of juvenile members and offering subsidised training gear for them. Tell them that the club is going to get a far better return on what cash it does have to spend by focusing on the juvenile side of things and providing decent coaching to youngsters, as opposed to spending it on the senior team.
Really does sound like a few lads with notions - out of interest how much have the lads "demanding" this contributed to the club off the field?
They are pretty decent club men to be fair. They do their bit and their lives evolve around the club.