Okay so you have a job that's close to home and it allows you to drop the kids off to school in the mornings and still be in work for 9, it pays okay but is damn hard work but I like it like that as the day flies in. The job is nothing you'd blow about to a chick if you were chatting her up at the Bar but a steady job is not easily gotten these days. Now an opportunity may have appeared for me to get back to the work I used to do (proper career) but its not much more than I'm currently getting but I will have to travel to the city for it as well as the additional cost of the travelling, I'll also be unavailable to bring my two kids to school in the mornings which my wife has not got a licence to drive.
What would you do in my situation if I was offered the new post?
Stay where you're at.
Stay put.
What possibilities or opportunities can it open for you? Thinking long term is the key.
I'm just like yourself in that regard and have handed my notice in, I've been teaching 14 years in various training colleges and just in March moved to a very good nationwide training provider with plenty of scope, but a friend of mine in the medical sales area offered me a post and I've taken in, I've no sales background at all but he's every confidence. I've six months training in England so like you all that comfortable stuff of getting the kids to school, collecting them and general stuff will be gone.
I've taken a leap of faith and going for it, I'm looking at the possibilities that it can have and while it will be tough I'm up for a new challenge.
I think if its something that you have done (career wise) you should go for it and see where it goes. And get her to learn how to drive!!!
Move to the city, tell all the chicks you are chatting up at the bar about your great new career, the wife will eventually learn to drive, but by them someone else will have moved in and your kids will be refering to him as uncle.
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 09:03:05 PM
Okay so you have a job that's close to home and it allows you to drop the kids off to school in the mornings and still be in work for 9, it pays okay but is damn hard work but I like it like that as the day flies in. The job is nothing you'd blow about to a chick if you were chatting her up at the Bar but a steady job is not easily gotten these days. Now an opportunity may have appeared for me to get back to the work I used to do (proper career) but its not much more than I'm currently getting but I will have to travel to the city for it as well as the additional cost of the travelling, I'll also be unavailable to bring my two kids to school in the mornings which my wife has not got a licence to drive.
What would you do in my situation if I was offered the new post?
Stay put. I have the opposite situation to yourself and would break your arm to swap. Constant rushing match to try and get home in the evenings to help with the kids or even just to see them before bed.
I'd be a Comfortable Rut man myself.
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 09:03:05 PM
Okay so you have a job that's close to home and it allows you to drop the kids off to school in the mornings and still be in work for 9, it pays okay but is damn hard work but I like it like that as the day flies in. The job is nothing you'd blow about to a chick if you were chatting her up at the Bar but a steady job is not easily gotten these days. Now an opportunity may have appeared for me to get back to the work I used to do (proper career) but its not much more than I'm currently getting but I will have to travel to the city for it as well as the additional cost of the travelling, I'll also be unavailable to bring my two kids to school in the mornings which my wife has not got a licence to drive.
What would you do in my situation if I was offered the new post?
What's your ultimate goal and does this help you get there? Will pursuing your own career help your family in the long run or just make you happier? Is that happiness worth more than the time with your kids?
I would stay where I was and make the most of what I have and enjoy the time with the family as it doesn't last long and before you know it they're away doing their own thing. There will be other jobs and other times - right now focus on your family.
Think I would stay put too. Work is to help you live. What is life without family? Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you.
I think I would be staying put. Don't underestimate the value of work life balance. I worked in a job when I was in my late twenties where the money was great but had no life for weeks at a time.That old cliche 'are you working to live or living to work?' might be worth thinking about.
My manager of the last year has been encouraging me to go for promotion but it would mean longer hours for not too much in exchange. Money is poor enough but is enough to keep me going. I keep saying my priorities are outside work. Mrs says my attitude stinks but my employment career is of no interest. However if you're ambitious then that's a diff story.
I forgot to add the guy I work for is a miserable hoor and appreciates no one. I'm not even allowed to take a call on my mobile or get out for a message (school play etc). I have to take my holidays when he decides or when he takes his and I don't think I've had a 30 min lunch uninterrupted since I started there.
The other post is in Belfast and I'd be home for 6 every evening, the only difference is I just wouldn't be available to bring the kids to school in the mornings. They're 9 and 6.
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 10:34:11 PM
I forgot to add the guy I work for is a miserable hoor and appreciates no one. I'm not even allowed to take a call on my mobile or get out for a message (school play etc). I have to take my holidays when he decides or when he takes his and I don't think I've had a 30 min lunch uninterrupted since I started there.
The other post is in Belfast and I'd be home for 6 every evening, the only difference is I just wouldn't be available to bring the kids to school in the mornings. They're 9 and 6.
I presume the kids will be able to make their own way to school soon, or is it too far? When they are teenagers they might pretend not to even know you. Morning time isn't exactly quality time, unless the journey is very awkward for them.
Whatever maximises your happiness.
I live a half a mile from the school...forgot to mention that.
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 10:47:31 PM
I live a half a mile from the school...forgot to mention that.
Feck!!! What is the world coming tooo!!!!! Let them walk lazy feckers
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 16, 2014, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 10:47:31 PM
I live a half a mile from the school...forgot to mention that.
Feck!!! What is the world coming tooo!!!!! Let them walk lazy feckers
Would you let a 9 & 6 year old walk by themselves to school along a main busy road?
I'll stand by my original questions: What is your ultimate goal for you and your family? Will this new job help you get there?
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 10:56:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 16, 2014, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 10:47:31 PM
I live a half a mile from the school...forgot to mention that.
Feck!!! What is the world coming tooo!!!!! Let them walk lazy feckers
Would you let a 9 & 6 year old walk by themselves to school along a main busy road?
When I was that age I walked to school every morning (with my two younger sisters) down the Falls road during the troubles, why are we so hung up on this? Yes my girls get dropped off as the neighbour works in the school. But on Fridays (my day to get the youngest, whos' 10) she walks home. Mental how attitudes change. Did you walk to school?
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 09:03:05 PM
Okay so you have a job that's close to home and it allows you to drop the kids off to school in the mornings and still be in work for 9, it pays okay but is damn hard work but I like it like that as the day flies in. The job is nothing you'd blow about to a chick if you were chatting her up at the Bar but a steady job is not easily gotten these days. Now an opportunity may have appeared for me to get back to the work I used to do (proper career) but its not much more than I'm currently getting but I will have to travel to the city for it as well as the additional cost of the travelling, I'll also be unavailable to bring my two kids to school in the mornings which my wife has not got a licence to drive.
What would you do in my situation if I was offered the new post?
illdecide - in 2011 I was in a very similar position to you - bit the bullet and took the job, 2012 was the worse year of my life, the job ceased to matter as the stress and worry about the kids and wife far outweighed any career progression, salary rise. The kids were going to the breakfast club at 8 and staying in the after school club until 6, it broke my heart, my youngest was 2 she was in nusery from 8 to 6 and days I left without seeing her and came home, after 7 on occasions and she was in bed. Thankfully I got a new job in 2013 which allowed me to be closer to home, I wouldn't change now until they were all at the big school.
You have 900 weeks until your child is 18, I wasted 68 of them on the M1!
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 07:25:19 AM
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 09:03:05 PM
Okay so you have a job that's close to home and it allows you to drop the kids off to school in the mornings and still be in work for 9, it pays okay but is damn hard work but I like it like that as the day flies in. The job is nothing you'd blow about to a chick if you were chatting her up at the Bar but a steady job is not easily gotten these days. Now an opportunity may have appeared for me to get back to the work I used to do (proper career) but its not much more than I'm currently getting but I will have to travel to the city for it as well as the additional cost of the travelling, I'll also be unavailable to bring my two kids to school in the mornings which my wife has not got a licence to drive.
What would you do in my situation if I was offered the new post?
illdecide - in 2011 I was in a very similar position to you - bit the bullet and took the job, 2012 was the worse year of my life, the job ceased to matter as the stress and worry about the kids and wife far outweighed any career progression, salary rise. The kids were going to the breakfast club at 8 and staying in the after school club until 6, it broke my heart, my youngest was 2 she was in nusery from 8 to 6 and days I left without seeing her and came home, after 7 on occasions and she was in bed. Thankfully I got a new job in 2013 which allowed me to be closer to home, I wouldn't change now until they were all at the big school.
You have 900 weeks until your child is 18, I wasted 68 of them on the M1!
Fantastic post Zip.
I honestly think you should stay put.
Sounds to me like you've already made your mind up. Good luck in the new job!
Stay in your current job and keep an eye out for opportunities around home. The kids make all the difference and with the economy seemingly on the way up it should be a trigger for more jobs in the horizon. Big decision regardless.
Quote from: illdecide on September 16, 2014, 10:34:11 PM
I forgot to add the guy I work for is a miserable hoor and appreciates no one. I'm not even allowed to take a call on my mobile or get out for a message (school play etc). I have to take my holidays when he decides or when he takes his and I don't think I've had a 30 min lunch uninterrupted since I started there.
The other post is in Belfast and I'd be home for 6 every evening, the only difference is I just wouldn't be available to bring the kids to school in the mornings. They're 9 and 6.
Tell him you're leaving cos he's a miserable hoor and that you don't enjoy working there anymore, that although you appreciate the work the conditions are appalling and that you're moving on principally cos whilst the job is fine, every other aspect of the job is not but that if there a change you might stay.
Try that. If he tones down, you'll be £ up and better conditions. If he's not happy move on.
Life's too short to be trying to please grumpy old men like that.
The kids won't be 9 and 6 forever. In no time, they'll be well fit to go to school on their own.
If this is the only factor, its a no brainer to me and one that can be overcome.
I've different conditions to yourself as in my kids will soon be 14 and 11. They are only looking you to give them money and drive them places and then sit in the other room on the phone all day !!! ah the life of a teenager lol.
But I've always taken a chance with a job, I suppose I've been lucky in that my industry has been very busy and there is a lot of jobs in that sector, so if my new job goes tits up I'll be not too hard pushed in getting back to same job
Whatever you do look at it long term, will I be making more money down the line to pay for college fees, able to buy them their first car, their weddings and the ability for a nest egg for when you retire. The kids will still love you regardless you'll make even more time for them at the weekend
Anyway good luck, and not bad to be in a position that you have the choice of work
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 17, 2014, 10:06:29 AM
I've different conditions to yourself as in my kids will soon be 14 and 11. They are only looking you to give them money and drive them places and then sit in the other room on the phone all day !!! ah the life of a teenager lol.
But I've always taken a chance with a job, I suppose I've been lucky in that my industry has been very busy and there is a lot of jobs in that sector, so if my new job goes tits up I'll be not too hard pushed in getting back to same job
Whatever you do look at it long term, will I be making more money down the line to pay for college fees, able to buy them their first car, their weddings and the ability for a nest egg for when you retire. The kids will still love you regardless you'll make even more time for them at the weekend
Anyway good luck, and not bad to be in a position that you have the choice of work
Sweet Jesus, are you for real, like myself my kids will be buying their own first car, paying for their own wedding and taking out the loans for the college fees!!!
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 10:08:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 17, 2014, 10:06:29 AM
I've different conditions to yourself as in my kids will soon be 14 and 11. They are only looking you to give them money and drive them places and then sit in the other room on the phone all day !!! ah the life of a teenager lol.
But I've always taken a chance with a job, I suppose I've been lucky in that my industry has been very busy and there is a lot of jobs in that sector, so if my new job goes tits up I'll be not too hard pushed in getting back to same job
Whatever you do look at it long term, will I be making more money down the line to pay for college fees, able to buy them their first car, their weddings and the ability for a nest egg for when you retire. The kids will still love you regardless you'll make even more time for them at the weekend
Anyway good luck, and not bad to be in a position that you have the choice of work
Sweet Jesus, are you for real, like myself my kids will be buying their own first car, paying for their own wedding and taking out the loans for the college fees!!!
Why wouldn't I? If I have it they'll get it. I've never had that luxury but would love to give them that. It may not be the case but I'm willing to put myself into a position that if they need that something extra then yeah.
And well done you on the car wedding and college fees. I'm sure its made you a wonderful person
Yip made me work hard to get what I want.
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 10:22:51 AM
Yip made me work hard to get what I want.
Course, well done, the hardest worker on the board. But you are being silly to suggest giving your kids a helping hand is wrong
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 17, 2014, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 10:22:51 AM
Yip made me work hard to get what I want.
Course, well done, the hardest worker on the board. But you are being silly to suggest giving your kids a helping hand is wrong
Not wrong MR2 but I remember lads at uni who didnt have a loan and instead got Mum/Dads handout every week which was double what the rest of us had. Needless to say they didnt use it wisely. All depends on the individual and how they manage their money though.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 17, 2014, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 10:22:51 AM
Yip made me work hard to get what I want.
Course, well done, the hardest worker on the board. But you are being silly to suggest giving your kids a helping hand is wrong
Of course I will help my kids, I never said helping out your kids is wrong - you can quote where you think I said that.
Take the job and tell your wife to walk the kids to school as it's only half a mile.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 17, 2014, 10:30:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 17, 2014, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 10:22:51 AM
Yip made me work hard to get what I want.
Course, well done, the hardest worker on the board. But you are being silly to suggest giving your kids a helping hand is wrong
Not wrong MR2 but I remember lads at uni who didnt have a loan and instead got Mum/Dads handout every week which was double what the rest of us had. Needless to say they didnt use it wisely. All depends on the individual and how they manage their money though.
All depends how you bring them up surely? I never had a washer and going to college was never going to happen. Left school and worked (continuing to) hard all my days, so the value of hard work (while my friend students at the time did feck all ;) ) isn't lost on me or my kids. But if (big fecking if) I have the chance to give them a helping hand then so be it.
Zip you said your kids will be buying their own car wedding and college fees, fair fcuks to you
Yip, I will provide for them, help them with their studies, ensure as far as possible they want for nothing as they grow up. In that way they should be fully capable of buying their first car and paying for their own wedding - I don't know one single person who didn't pay for their own wedding - but if you are that loaded fair play to you.
Interesting conversation, happened across an article on the guardian website during the week,
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying
Number 2 regret was working too hard and missing children's formative years.
Although only a half mile walk, its something you will not do again when they head off to secondary school!
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 10:55:40 AM
Yip, I will provide for them, help them with their studies, ensure as far as possible they want for nothing as they grow up. In that way they should be fully capable of buying their first car and paying for their own wedding - I don't know one single person who didn't pay for their own wedding - but if you are that loaded fair play to you.
I didn't pay for my wedding, I was lucky enough in that her parents (very traditional and smart with the money they worked hard for) paid for it all, I'm probably a little older than you so it wasn't strange for the daughters parents to pay for weddings, different now but I'll be putting money aside for it just in case. As for being loaded nope certainly not. Two good enough wages but lie everyone else mortgages and credit cards bills leaves us with not much to save.
But you are missing my point,
If I do have the money to do it then I will give them that helping hand. I've had to pay for everything I wanted in my working life (bar the wedding), my kids will tell you themselves they are bored of me telling them about hard work!!
As would any parent including myself, your initial post indicated it was a given you will be paying, so apologies for the crossed wires. On the issue off paying for your wedding, had my wife's parent offered I would have flatly refused but then everyone is different. ;)
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 11:16:51 AM
As would any parent including myself, your initial post indicated it was a given you will be paying, so apologies for the crossed wires. On the issue off paying for your wedding, had my wife's parent offered I would have flatly refused but then everyone is different. ;)
I did, but I'd no say in the matter, I did pay for the rent of the suits :P
In laws like that would have made me run for the hills. ;)
When do you make this choice illdecide? Hopefully he doesn't read the board!! If he doe's he'll make it for you lol
Would be in a similar position as yourself Illdecide. Pay is well below average for the position I am in, not to mention working with the same gobda's for far to long. It has a negative impact on mental health. Have talked to a large number of people about moving. All of them reckon I should stay (as I have 2 young kids) and develop a a way of coping with the negative impact of work. Have to agree family first and work a distant second. Developing that coping mechanism is a challenge I am beginning to relish. Post by Zip Code is a good one.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 17, 2014, 11:46:57 AM
When do you make this choice illdecide? Hopefully he doesn't read the board!! If he doe's he'll make it for you lol
Lol...True enough.
My mother in law picks the kids up at 3 from primary school and minds them until 5:30 then she picks my wife up from her work and brings her and the two kids home. I worked in a Civil Engineering Consultancy before and liked it but the work dried up and found this job in Manufacturing which is not as interesting and very repetitive work but was better than no work.
Quote from: illdecide on September 17, 2014, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 17, 2014, 11:46:57 AM
When do you make this choice illdecide? Hopefully he doesn't read the board!! If he doe's he'll make it for you lol
Lol...True enough.
My mother in law picks the kids up at 3 from primary school and minds them until 5:30 then she picks my wife up from her work and brings her and the two kids home. I worked in a Civil Engineering Consultancy before and liked it but the work dried up and found this job in Manufacturing which is not as interesting and very repetitive work but was better than no work.
Never easy, no mater who you listen too the choice is yours along with the wife. Everyone here will have different experiences of that work life balance.
Away from your trade I suppose but employers are (well in most companies now) open to the working from home element. I've had most Fridays at home since I started my last/current job and sitting at the kitchen table in your 'PJ's' working on the computer while stuffing a generous fry down your neck was nice and less stressful than traveling to Ards to do the same work in the office!
Quote from: illdecide on September 17, 2014, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 17, 2014, 11:46:57 AM
When do you make this choice illdecide? Hopefully he doesn't read the board!! If he doe's he'll make it for you lol
Lol...True enough.
My mother in law picks the kids up at 3 from primary school and minds them until 5:30 then she picks my wife up from her work and brings her and the two kids home. I worked in a Civil Engineering Consultancy before and liked it but the work dried up and found this job in Manufacturing which is not as interesting and very repetitive work but was better than no work.
Typical townie woman not getting a licence!!!
Only kidding, I reckon that as the economy seems to be on a bit of a rise then other jobs will come up over the next few years, I would give it till they are out of primary and then see what the options are. The money won't follow you to the ground but the memories you have and your kids have are irreplaceable so I would cherish every single moment of them. My own father worked as a long distance lorry driver, was gone 3 out of every 4 weeks, never at home, died at the age of 50. I am sure he would have loved to have it differently but it wasn't and that can never be changed. Make the most of your time with your kids, that can never be changed.
Depends what your weans are like. I come to work for a holiday and stay long enough to make sure the missus has them in bed before I get home 8)
I went the other way a few years back and quit my job altogether.
When our 1st son was born I was sent out on site usually from Monday - Friday, almost as soon as I got off paternity leave. I worked in Belfast but sites were in Dublin, Galway, Cork among others. I was basically the only person in the company who could do job X and rather train others to help I was used every time. I got completely sick of it and was totally missing my first kid as a baby. Mrs NS used to make videos of her and the baby during the week so show me when I got home on the Friday night.
By the time son #2 came along a couple of years later it had got even worse - I was told within an hour of returning from paternity what the plan for me was. At least this work was usually in NI so I did get home, but not until the baby was in bed. I had anticipated this would happen so Mrs NS & I had already discussed and as soon as her maternity leave was ending I handed in my notice. I havent looked back. We have had a daughter since who is just starting P1 so I am looking to start work again (though not looking to hard at the minute). The time I have been able to spend with my kids has been fantastic. Its a cliché that you dont get those years back - but it's true.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 17, 2014, 01:17:50 PM
Depends what your weans are like. I come to work for a holiday and stay long enough to make sure the missus has them in bed before I get home 8)
I've often waited down the road in the car for half an hour just to be sure they are in bed ;D
Quote from: laoislad on September 17, 2014, 02:07:42 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 17, 2014, 01:17:50 PM
Depends what your weans are like. I come to work for a holiday and stay long enough to make sure the missus has them in bed before I get home 8)
I've often waited down the road in the car for half an hour just to be sure they are in bed ;D
LOL and you're Mr Daddy on the Daddies Thread.
Quote from: laoislad on September 17, 2014, 02:07:42 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 17, 2014, 01:17:50 PM
Depends what your weans are like. I come to work for a holiday and stay long enough to make sure the missus has them in bed before I get home 8)
I've often waited down the road in the car for half an hour just to be sure they are in bed ;D
Scenario 1
Text message
Me 'Are the kids in bed yet?'
Her 'No'
Me 'I'll be another hour here, sorry'
Scenario 2
Me 'Are the kids in bed yet?'
Her 'yes'
Me 'See you soon, do you want a bottle of wine?'
Away lads I don't believe the half of it, I bet you can't wait to get home to the younguns. ;D
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 02:17:49 PM
Away lads I don't believe the half of it, I bet you can't wait to get home to the younguns. ;D
Same. My daughter 19 months old and full of lolz at the minute.
Quote from: Under Lights on September 17, 2014, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: Zip Code on September 17, 2014, 02:17:49 PM
Away lads I don't believe the half of it, I bet you can't wait to get home to the younguns. ;D
Same. My daughter 19 months old and full of lolz at the minute.
Then they grow up and wind you up something shocking lol!!!
Well Guys i had my mind made up that i was going to take the job until coming out of Croke Park yesterday i got a call from the Director of the company telling me i was successful and they're looking me to start, he then went on to tell me the starting salary which threw a spanner in the works as it was a lot lower than i was expecting. I told him this and there was a few seconds of silence on the phone...He said there was a bit of room for movement on it but it's def confused the situation for me having made my mind up prior to that...My head is fried today as he's calling back this evening for an answer :-\ :-\
Do i just put it to him straight up what i need to move or how should i approach it? (hope he's not on the Board either...lol)
Bollocks that pay rises are hard to come by in any company if you need 40k for example to move tell him, if your not getting it he will say so - if you go in on 35k - you could be 5 years to get to 40k.
Quote from: illdecide on September 22, 2014, 09:45:27 AM
Well Guys i had my mind made up that i was going to take the job until coming out of Croke Park yesterday i got a call from the Director of the company telling me i was successful and they're looking me to start, he then went on to tell me the starting salary which threw a spanner in the works as it was a lot lower than i was expecting. I told him this and there was a few seconds of silence on the phone...He said there was a bit of room for movement on it but it's def confused the situation for me having made my mind up prior to that...My head is fried today as he's calling back this evening for an answer :-\ :-\
Do i just put it to him straight up what i need to move or how should i approach it? (hope he's not on the Board either...lol)
If you don't ask you won't get, ask for confirmation on final salary before confirming to move. At the end of the day you don't need to move right now so you've nothing to lose by asking them to meet your expectations.
Quote from: BenDover on September 22, 2014, 11:47:11 AM
Quote from: illdecide on September 22, 2014, 09:45:27 AM
Well Guys i had my mind made up that i was going to take the job until coming out of Croke Park yesterday i got a call from the Director of the company telling me i was successful and they're looking me to start, he then went on to tell me the starting salary which threw a spanner in the works as it was a lot lower than i was expecting. I told him this and there was a few seconds of silence on the phone...He said there was a bit of room for movement on it but it's def confused the situation for me having made my mind up prior to that...My head is fried today as he's calling back this evening for an answer :-\ :-\
Do i just put it to him straight up what i need to move or how should i approach it? (hope he's not on the Board either...lol)
If you don't ask you won't get, ask for confirmation on final salary before confirming to move. At the end of the day you don't need to move right now so you've nothing to lose by asking them to meet your expectations.
Just be straight with him. Are there any other benefits that might make up the shortfall of cash in hand i.e. better holidays, flexi-time etc? Work it all out and tell him what is the minimum you will accept. As Zip Code rightly says if you go in low and even with an inflation busting annual increment it could still be years before you make up the difference in your current expectation and what they are prepared to fork out. It will also really test whether you want to make the move or not!
Yes, there are a few additional benefits. It offers private health care for me and the family and i can take my holidays to suit me whereas i have to take them when I'm told here and i believe there are few extra days Holidays in the new post too
Quote from: illdecide on September 22, 2014, 04:10:14 PM
Yes, there are a few additional benefits. It offers private health care for me and the family and i can take my holidays to suit me whereas i have to take them when I'm told here and i believe there are few extra days Holidays in the new post too
Tell him straight out what you need, if he does't give the money forget it. A case of Show me the money. Most of these guys start low and have 10-15% wiggle room.
Does the new job involve decision making?
Quote from: Hardy on September 23, 2014, 10:26:27 AM
Does the new job involve decision making?
Prehaps illdecide should rename name himself ;)
Got a "let's talk" phone call this morning after knocking back a job offer last Friday. :D
This is worse than the last episode of Friends................"DID SHE GET OFF THE PLAAAAANE" ;D
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
Got a "let's talk" phone call this morning after knocking back a job offer last Friday. :D
Has it changed your mind?
Quote from: Rois on September 23, 2014, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
Got a "let's talk" phone call this morning after knocking back a job offer last Friday. :D
Has it changed your mind?
Not yet but it's nice to be wanted.
They've pretty much said to scrap their initial offer, put my terms to them and negotiate. Wasn't so much the salary which was disappointing but the rest of the package: no paid sick leave (is this common in the south?), only 19 days holiday (5 of which had to be taken over Christmas), 6 months probation, nothing in writing about ability to work remotely.
6 months probation is pretty much standard.
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 12:02:36 PM
Quote from: Rois on September 23, 2014, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
Got a "let's talk" phone call this morning after knocking back a job offer last Friday. :D
Has it changed your mind?
Not yet but it's nice to be wanted.
They've pretty much said to scrap their initial offer, put my terms to them and negotiate. Wasn't so much the salary which was disappointing but the rest of the package: no paid sick leave (is this common in the south?), only 19 days holiday (5 of which had to be taken over Christmas), 6 months probation, nothing in writing about ability to work remotely.
That sounds slack enough Ulick. Whatever about salary, you should be paid sick leave up to a certain amount per year. Then if you are out long term, you usually have insurance to cover salary. But you certainly shouldn't be unpaid if you are out sick a day! Also 19 days seems harsh. We get 23. I understand the Christmas shutdown thing, we used to have that as well, but it was only 3 days, and hence we got 23 days holidays instead of 20. When the restriction was lifted about Christmas, we kept the 3 days as normal holidays.
6 months probation is common, and hang tough for remote working. If they don't want to allow that, you'll end up in a shit situation if you are relying on it to help with lifestyle etc.
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 12:02:36 PM
Quote from: Rois on September 23, 2014, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
Got a "let's talk" phone call this morning after knocking back a job offer last Friday. :D
Has it changed your mind?
Not yet but it's nice to be wanted.
They've pretty much said to scrap their initial offer, put my terms to them and negotiate. Wasn't so much the salary which was disappointing but the rest of the package: no paid sick leave (is this common in the south?), only 19 days holiday (5 of which had to be taken over Christmas), 6 months probation, nothing in writing about ability to work remotely.
No sick pay is common enough.(except in the very well paid and the public sectors) The 19 days holidays is odd. Working Time Act says 4 week holidays providing employee works at least 1365 hours P/A or 8 % of the hours worked up to a max of 4 working weeks.
What gerrykeegan said (came in to post that but he got their first).
In ROI, sick pay, paternity pay aren't covered under legislation.
Sick Pay lads? I've never heard of someone having to be unpaid if they are out with the flu or something.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2014, 12:29:21 PM
Sick Pay lads? I've never heard of someone having to be unpaid if they are out with the flu or something.
Do you not remember this?
Statutory sick pay would damage jobs and growth according to an employers group.
The government is keen to put the responsibility for sick pay back on employers which is something that could save the Department of Social Protection €90 million
But employers group IBEC is warning such a move will affect companies" bottom lines making Ireland a difficult place to do business.
Government priorities
Brendan McGinty is the Director of HR Services with IBEC.
He says they have asked business people themselves to quantify the possible losses.
"Employers - when they evaluate the potential effects of a statutory sick pay scheme, are telling us that 42% are saying it would affect heir sustainability - but about half are stating that such a move would affect their ability to recruit new staff; and about 47% saying it would affect their ability to retain existing staff" he said.
Mr. McGinty is also questioning the priorities of government.
No sick or paternity pay... Gees - all pretty standard up north.
Yeah there should be EU directives to get more than 19 days holiday though stat days count in that too so they may have covered themselves there.
Remote working is usually discretionary.
I'll take yer word for it lads, ye obviously know better than I. However I've never had a job that didn't pay me if I got sick for a few days, there was usually a limit in the year. Thankfully I have rarely missed a day sick, but if I did I would not want to be unpaid. I know some public servants use their sick days almost as extra holiday entitlements, but that doesn't happen anywhere I've worked in the private sector.
Also, there's been paternity leave (usually 3 days) in the benefits in all my jobs. (I've only actually moved myself once, but I'm working for my 5th different company at this stage due to mergers and takeovers).
So, if there's nothing in law about paternity leave and sick pay, there are certainly competitive benefit packages out there which include both, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to question that in my view.
Am not normally one for sickies either but feck I've a family to support and I would need some sort of cover in case I break an arm or something. Didn't realise there's no statutory paternity leave or pay either. On the holidays the offer was 1.6 days per calendar month - I worked that out to be 19 days.
Have an offer from another company who will let me work remotely 80-90% which would mean I could stay in the north but it's only 12 month contract initially. Although a more interesting job not the same certainty.
Deal is done and i handed in my notice this morning...twisted and turned all night like a big child. 41 years of age and i was nervous as hell handing in my notice. Start my new job middle of Oct.
Hope I've made the right call ;)...
I know i was getting a bit of stick there (illdecide by name but undecided by nature) but its nice to bounce it of a few lads and get different opinions as it's a big decision to make and it's nice to get a bit of reassurance.
Thanks lads for the advise.
In fairness I think you had your mind made up from the start. Every negative that was put forward you answered as if you had already thought of it. Best of luck with it anyhow, I'm sure it will work out for you.
Good luck with the new job, its never an easy decision to make to change, hope it works out for you.
recently done the same, into the city for a more bars, working out nicely so far, hope its the same for you
Good luck with the new job. I wish something would turn up in my area of work so that I could make a change. I work for a company where the boss is nearing retirement age and things are very slow at the minute.
I have lost interest working in the place and feel I am stuck in a rut.
Something might turn up.
Quote from: illdecide on September 23, 2014, 02:37:49 PM
Deal is done and i handed in my notice this morning...twisted and turned all night like a big child. 41 years of age and i was nervous as hell handing in my notice. Start my new job middle of Oct.
Hope I've made the right call ;)...
I know i was getting a bit of stick there (illdecide by name but undecided by nature) but its nice to bounce it of a few lads and get different opinions as it's a big decision to make and it's nice to get a bit of reassurance.
Thanks lads for the advise.
Goodluck with it,im in a similar position although my current employer is dead on. i am suppose to be the boss as hes not in to often but when he does come in he goes straight over my head although i know he doesnt mean to it is really starting to piss me off,ive been here for 22 years and paid well and i would be moving to a similar job but with a few extras like car and healthcare and a few k more a year.i consider myself to be halfway through my working life and really not sure what to do,but anyway ill work it out and as i said goodluck to you,you have made a brave decision.
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 01:49:53 PM
Am not normally one for sickies either but feck I've a family to support and I would need some sort of cover in case I break an arm or something. Didn't realise there's no statutory paternity leave or pay either. On the holidays the offer was 1.6 days per calendar month - I worked that out to be 19 days.
Have an offer from another company who will let me work remotely 80-90% which would mean I could stay in the north but it's only 12 month contract initially. Although a more interesting job not the same certainty.
If you need a meaningful amount of cover you should look in income protection insurance
Quote from: ONeill on September 16, 2014, 10:43:21 PM
Whatever maximises your happiness.
I'll decide,
hopefully this
Good luck
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 12:02:36 PM
Quote from: Rois on September 23, 2014, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: Ulick on September 23, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
Got a "let's talk" phone call this morning after knocking back a job offer last Friday. :D
Has it changed your mind?
Not yet but it's nice to be wanted.
They've pretty much said to scrap their initial offer, put my terms to them and negotiate. Wasn't so much the salary which was disappointing but the rest of the package: no paid sick leave (is this common in the south?), only 19 days holiday (5 of which had to be taken over Christmas), 6 months probation, nothing in writing about ability to work remotely.
Illegal down here.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html)
There are 3 different ways of calculating your annual leave entitlement:
Based on the employee's working hours during what is called the leave year, which runs from April to March. An employee who has worked at least 1,365 hours in the leave year is entitled to the maximum of 4 working weeks' annual leave unless the employment ceases during the leave year. Many employers use the calendar year (January-December) instead of the official leave year to calculate entitlement
By allowing 1/3 of a working week for each calendar month in which the employee has worked at least 117 hours
8% of the hours worked in the leave year, subject to a maximum of 4 working weeks
An employee may use whichever of these methods gives the greater entitlement.
An employee who has worked for at least 8 months is entitled to an unbroken period of 2 weeks' annual leave.
I'm half way through my first day of the new job and it looks like I'm going to be a busy chap...The first 2-3 weeks in a new job are terrible trying to remember their filing system and the people around me names.
Quote from: illdecide on October 14, 2014, 01:10:57 PM
I'm half way through my first day of the new job and it looks like I'm going to be a busy chap...The first 2-3 weeks in a new job are terrible trying to remember their filing system and the people around me names.
Feeling your pain!! 3 weeks into my new job (Medi sales) and I'm on a course in England with 34 other people for 20 weeks!! Home this week to do some shadowing!! That 'oh feck what have I done' thought has crossed my mind but things will work out for you and me hopefully, fair fcuks and you'll hopefully not regret it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2014, 07:28:36 PM
Quote from: illdecide on October 14, 2014, 01:10:57 PM
I'm half way through my first day of the new job and it looks like I'm going to be a busy chap...The first 2-3 weeks in a new job are terrible trying to remember their filing system and the people around me names.
Feeling your pain!! 3 weeks into my new job (Medi sales) and I'm on a course in England with 34 other people for 20 weeks!! Home this week to do some shadowing!! That 'oh feck what have I done' thought has crossed my mind but things will work out for you and me hopefully, fair fcuks and you'll hopefully not regret it
Drugs or equipment?
Equipment
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2014, 08:54:36 PM
20 weeks? Fcukin hell, that's one year of a degree.
Foundation degree
The first few weeks of any new job is like "what the fu*k have I done" but you have to allow time to settle in. I think after 6 months if you're still thinking like that then you've probably made the wrong move. The problem with that is when you've kids, mortgage, car etc you can't really do much about it.
Quote from: illdecide on October 14, 2014, 10:07:48 PM
The first few weeks of any new job is like "what the f**k have I done" but you have to allow time to settle in. I think after 6 months if you're still thinking like that then you've probably made the wrong move. The problem with that is when you've kids, mortgage, car etc you can't really do much about it.
Yep, agreed. Head down arse up and work like feck. Great to be working though, so no real complaints lol.
Quote from: illdecide on October 14, 2014, 01:10:57 PM
I'm half way through my first day of the new job and it looks like I'm going to be a busy chap...The first 2-3 weeks in a new job are terrible trying to remember their filing system and the people around me names.
Ah sure I doubt it will be that busy if you're posting on here halfway through your first day in the job ;)
Quote from: CiKe on October 15, 2014, 08:12:13 AM
Quote from: illdecide on October 14, 2014, 01:10:57 PM
I'm half way through my first day of the new job and it looks like I'm going to be a busy chap...The first 2-3 weeks in a new job are terrible trying to remember their filing system and the people around me names.
Ah sure I doubt it will be that busy if you're posting on here halfway through your first day in the job ;)
It's called a lunch break Amigo ;)
Illdecide, 15 months on, still in the job?
Quote from: Minus15 on January 31, 2016, 09:13:14 PM
Illdecide, 15 months on, still in the job?
Yes still here, still busy and still working hard. Funny my previous boss called me up there about 3-4 months ago asking me would i reconsider going back to work for him...I told him i'd think about it and call him back (but forgot to call him back...i know that's rude but genuinely forgot with the build up to Christmas and all that) but i would only go back to work for him if i was unemployed. Now with you being a new wan on the Board here i was thinking i could be set up here ;) Are you my boss? Are you my old boss? Are you a guy with multiple accounts? ;)
Interested to get general thoughts on staying with an organisation/moving every couple of years to get a varied experience. Is there such a thing as doing a minimum (say 2 years) as it wouldnt look good on a CV?
Maybe its an Irish thing/something drilled into me but I'm of the belief I should stay another 6 months in my current job in order to hit the 2 years as it will looking better in job application.
The 3 month leave period could also be tricky. Anyone encountered such a long period?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 10:01:54 AM
Interested to get general thoughts on staying with an organisation/moving every couple of years to get a varied experience. Is there such a thing as doing a minimum (say 2 years) as it wouldnt look good on a CV?
Maybe its an Irish thing/something drilled into me but I'm of the belief I should stay another 6 months in my current job in order to hit the 2 years as it will looking better in job application.
The 3 month leave period could also be tricky. Anyone encountered such a long period?
A 3 month notice period?
It would be daunting to tie yourself to a new Company like that when you have no idea what they are like to work for but there is probably an equivalent 6 month probation where you can walk away.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 10:01:54 AM
Interested to get general thoughts on staying with an organisation/moving every couple of years to get a varied experience. Is there such a thing as doing a minimum (say 2 years) as it wouldnt look good on a CV?
Maybe its an Irish thing/something drilled into me but I'm of the belief I should stay another 6 months in my current job in order to hit the 2 years as it will looking better in job application.
The 3 month leave period could also be tricky. Anyone encountered such a long period?
I was always under the impression 4-5 years in a company is more than enough and then move on unless they are exceptional to work for. The 3 month notice period is a load of balls unless you're on the Board of Directors or the MD, 1 month is normal notice. This place i work for made a Technician give 12 weeks notice there last year when he was leaving (he was there 12 years)...at the end of the dat what can they do to you if you don't give the required notice (sack you) put a sick line and you're finished with them anyway...
Yeah the 3 month notice is a bit steep alright. If and when I do leave I'll not really let it bother me. In saying that I get on really well with everyone and enjoy my work. Cheers for the opinions guys.
I did 3 months notice in my last job and would likely have to do it in current one. I have been told you can't legally enforce that mind you.(NI based)
They say 2 years should be your minimum term. If I interview people I definitely see alarm bells if there's just continually loads of short term roles on their cv. One or two two year periods is fine.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2016, 11:39:32 AM
I did 3 months notice in my last job and would likely have to do it in current one. I have been told you can't legally enforce that mind you.(NI based)
They say 2 years should be your minimum term. If I interview people I definitely see alarm bells if there's just continually loads of short term roles on their cv. One or two two year periods is fine.
Cheers ITG - interesting to get the opinion of someone who carries out interviews. I suppose with the current nature of the workplace and insecurity of the market more change is becoming frequent.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 11:37:41 AM
Yeah the 3 month notice is a bit steep alright. If and when I do leave I'll not really let it bother me. In saying that I get on really well with everyone and enjoy my work. Cheers for the opinions guys.
3 months seems overly ridiculous in this day and age I imagine if you aren't a dick about things they'll let you away handy enough.
The CV thing is definitely a problem. Before my current job my CV was 1 year, 18 months, 1 year, 9 months for my previous jobs and my now Director said "looking at your CV you don't look like the kind of boy who's gonna hang about for too long why should I let you mess about here for 18 months wasting my time".
Lucky enough I got over that and I'll be here 5 years now in April!! I've been thinking recently about something else but I'm finding it harder to leave here the longer I stay. It's a good job for this part of the world and the office is 5 minutes from the house so it's way too handy for the childminder/a decent lie in most mornings compared to the wife who heads off to Belfast every morning!
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2016, 11:48:37 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 11:37:41 AM
Yeah the 3 month notice is a bit steep alright. If and when I do leave I'll not really let it bother me. In saying that I get on really well with everyone and enjoy my work. Cheers for the opinions guys.
3 months seems overly ridiculous in this day and age I imagine if you aren't a dick about things they'll let you away handy enough.
The CV thing is definitely a problem. Before my current job my CV was 1 year, 18 months, 1 year, 9 months for my previous jobs and my now Director said "looking at your CV you don't look like the kind of boy who's gonna hang about for too long why should I let you mess about here for 18 months wasting my time".
Lucky enough I got over that and I'll be here 5 years now in April!! I've been thinking recently about something else but I'm finding it harder to leave here the longer I stay. It's a good job for this part of the world and the office is 5 minutes from the house so it's way too handy for the childminder/a decent lie in most mornings compared to the wife who heads off to Belfast every morning!
Good points SE. Have a mate who has chopped and changed regularly (for money) and recently got pulled in a couple of interviews over the points you raised.
I think its striking a balance - I'm happy to do 3 months if the next employer is willing to compromise. Not that I'm in a mad panic to leave just yet.
Depends on what you do and what the person is hiring for. The IT contractor market really picked up in Dublin this last year or so and the good people are getting pinched/jumping to get higher rates.
I'd prefer someone honestly tell me whats on the table and if I want to keep them I'll see what I can do. Unfortunately sometimes we can't match stupid rates but I do wish people all the best as I would do the same thing. I used to move around as I preferred shorter contacts to avoid getting sucked into the politics of one place.
Chopping and changing jobs common enough now in certain areas. Doesn't raise eyebrows anymore like it used to.
From what I see there is some amount of people trying now to move jobs now that it seems job market loosening up after nearly a decade.
Some employers now reaping the rewards of their behaviour when they knew employees had to suck it up.
Im starting to get itchy feet myself and only came across this thread today - ive now read from start to finish.
Im currently working in Belfast, heading for 30 years of age and just married. Im in my current job nearly 8 years. I have started looking around for the past 3 - 4 months now but have some concerns that the grass may not always be greener. I get 25 paid holidays plus bank holidays, 30 sick days (ive had 3 in all my years here), car allowance, pension contribution, full medical and dental and can work from home a couple of days a week. As long as I hit my targets every month I have no issues and no hassle. I do spend about 10-15 hrs a week between evenings and weekends working (I dont get overtime) but I dont really mind this. We are a world wide company with shareholders so whilst I have a boss, hes not paying me with "his" money. This can be the problem when trying to get a payrise. I do wonder if I worked for a small company that my boss was the owner I would be more valued and be paid more, see what im worth sorta thing. I wouldnt say im on poor money but not great if you look soley at salary.
That brings me to my next question....what is a decent salary? Its no ones business what anyone earns so i am not looking for board members to sates their wages, but I really dont have a clue what a good or bad salary is?
When I read this back it sounds like I have a grand job, maybe it is. ive just never worked anywhere else. Im sure a baby will be on the way at some point in the next year or two and i would have incredible flexibility when this would happen (school runs, plays, sports days etc). So im not sure what to do. I dont be in the office every day and can avoid rush hour so I dread to think getting stuck in a 9-5 job were I am office based every day and spend 3hrs a day travelling alone.
Any thoughts?
Have worked for my current employer for the last 12 yrs and i have had no problems them. They have always fair and flexible when it came to work hours, holidays etc but for the last year or so i just would rather be somewhere else. My employer is getting close to retirement age so i would like to sort something before its forced on me.
I would like to go out on my own but its a big risk when you have a mortgage kids etc and i wouldn't have a big enough client base to do it.
I don't know what to do i just have lost the passion for my current work place.
I gave up my career because I thought the assumptions that we were using were nuts. I am working on something to replace it and the freedom is fabulous.
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2016, 01:12:47 PM
I gave up my career because I thought the assumptions that we were using were nuts. I am working on something to replace it and the freedom is fabulous.
Best thing I ever did was start up my own business.There are times you would love to go back to a steady income/weekly wage but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
As seafoid said the freedom is the best part of it,there is just no way I could go back to someone telling me what to do(apart from the wife of course ;D)
I would urge anyone who even has the slightest interest in being self employed to just give it a go. Somehow I got through the recession in one piece,there were a few hairy moments along the way but I stuck with it and now things are really picking up.
Quote from: laoislad on February 01, 2016, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2016, 01:12:47 PM
I gave up my career because I thought the assumptions that we were using were nuts. I am working on something to replace it and the freedom is fabulous.
Best thing I ever did was start up my own business.There are times you would love to go back to a steady income/weekly wage but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
As seafoid said the freedom is the best part of it,there is just no way I could go back to someone telling me what to do(apart from the wife of course ;D)
I would urge anyone who even has the slightest interest in being self employed to just give it a go. Somehow I got through the recession in one piece,there were a few hairy moments along the way but I stuck with it and now things are really picking up.
What age were you when you went out on your own?
Quote from: knockitdown on February 01, 2016, 01:32:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 01, 2016, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2016, 01:12:47 PM
I gave up my career because I thought the assumptions that we were using were nuts. I am working on something to replace it and the freedom is fabulous.
Best thing I ever did was start up my own business.There are times you would love to go back to a steady income/weekly wage but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
As seafoid said the freedom is the best part of it,there is just no way I could go back to someone telling me what to do(apart from the wife of course ;D)
I would urge anyone who even has the slightest interest in being self employed to just give it a go. Somehow I got through the recession in one piece,there were a few hairy moments along the way but I stuck with it and now things are really picking up.
What age were you when you went out on your own?
9 years ago so I would have been just gone 28 at the time.
Quote from: laoislad on February 01, 2016, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on February 01, 2016, 01:32:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 01, 2016, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2016, 01:12:47 PM
I gave up my career because I thought the assumptions that we were using were nuts. I am working on something to replace it and the freedom is fabulous.
Best thing I ever did was start up my own business.There are times you would love to go back to a steady income/weekly wage but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
As seafoid said the freedom is the best part of it,there is just no way I could go back to someone telling me what to do(apart from the wife of course ;D)
I would urge anyone who even has the slightest interest in being self employed to just give it a go. Somehow I got through the recession in one piece,there were a few hairy moments along the way but I stuck with it and now things are really picking up.
What age were you when you went out on your own?
9 years ago so I would have been just gone 28 at the time.
married? kids? mortgage? Coudl you afford to take the chance or was it enforced?
Quote from: knockitdown on February 01, 2016, 01:38:42 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 01, 2016, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on February 01, 2016, 01:32:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 01, 2016, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2016, 01:12:47 PM
I gave up my career because I thought the assumptions that we were using were nuts. I am working on something to replace it and the freedom is fabulous.
Best thing I ever did was start up my own business.There are times you would love to go back to a steady income/weekly wage but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
As seafoid said the freedom is the best part of it,there is just no way I could go back to someone telling me what to do(apart from the wife of course ;D)
I would urge anyone who even has the slightest interest in being self employed to just give it a go. Somehow I got through the recession in one piece,there were a few hairy moments along the way but I stuck with it and now things are really picking up.
What age were you when you went out on your own?
9 years ago so I would have been just gone 28 at the time.
married? kids? mortgage? Coudl you afford to take the chance or was it enforced?
Wasn't married or didn't have kids at that time. Did have a mortgage though.
It wasn't really enforced,as at the time I could have walked into another well paid job easily enough, but it was something I always wanted to do.Though the arse fell out of the industry a short while later, so that job could well have been gone anyway after a few months.
Got about 8k pay off from the job I had been in,and between that and what I had left over from selling my car to buy a small van I just went for it.
Thanks Laoislad
Stuck in a civil service job myself in Belfast, steady enough job but same old repetitive work, now 31 and getting married this year and didnt really do the uni thing so dont have any qualifications as such so feeling stuck employment wise. Get steady O/T which bumps the pay up but the Mrs has been on my back as she is in a job she wants to do (teaching) and although hard work she enjoys it and she thinks I should have the same.
Just unsure whether to go back to uni or just try applying other jobs as not much out there although she is in England at the moment and she wouldnt mind me going over there. Just think the job security holds me and alot of people back.
I would love to start my own business but it just seems so daunting. First of all I don't know what I would want my business to be. My own history is mainly financial services and now I'm running the trading side of a Pharma Company so nothing really specialised that I could easily go out on my own.
If I were to go on my own with the current job I have it would be a big outlay at first with getting premises up to standard and I would need a good line of credit to purchase the stock I would be looking for. Along with that it's a crowded marketplace and I would be doing the dirt on my current employers as we would be competing over the same stock.
I suppose I'm waiting for something to jump out at me whether it's investing in something with a friend/family or an opportunity that I see on my own. I have a bit of money I could invest and access to a small amount of credit if the right opportunity came along but I just don't know what it would be!!
I've also toyed with the idea of an MBA but it seems overly expensive and would it guarantee me something big? I'm not so sure.
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2016, 02:05:37 PM
I would love to start my own business but it just seems so daunting. First of all I don't know what I would want my business to be. My own history is mainly financial services and now I'm running the trading side of a Pharma Company so nothing really specialised that I could easily go out on my own.
If I were to go on my own with the current job I have it would be a big outlay at first with getting premises up to standard and I would need a good line of credit to purchase the stock I would be looking for. Along with that it's a crowded marketplace and I would be doing the dirt on my current employers as we would be competing over the same stock.
I suppose I'm waiting for something to jump out at me whether it's investing in something with a friend/family or an opportunity that I see on my own. I have a bit of money I could invest and access to a small amount of credit if the right opportunity came along but I just don't know what it would be!!
I've also toyed with the idea of an MBA but it seems overly expensive and would it guarantee me something big? I'm not so sure.
A lot of engineers I work with in London are all doing MBA's part time. Tbh I think its just to get them to board level eventually as it seems to be the done thing. One masters was enough for me!
Quote from: knockitdown on February 01, 2016, 01:04:34 PM
Im starting to get itchy feet myself and only came across this thread today - ive now read from start to finish.
Im currently working in Belfast, heading for 30 years of age and just married. Im in my current job nearly 8 years. I have started looking around for the past 3 - 4 months now but have some concerns that the grass may not always be greener. I get 25 paid holidays plus bank holidays, 30 sick days (ive had 3 in all my years here), car allowance, pension contribution, full medical and dental and can work from home a couple of days a week. As long as I hit my targets every month I have no issues and no hassle. I do spend about 10-15 hrs a week between evenings and weekends working (I dont get overtime) but I dont really mind this. We are a world wide company with shareholders so whilst I have a boss, hes not paying me with "his" money. This can be the problem when trying to get a payrise. I do wonder if I worked for a small company that my boss was the owner I would be more valued and be paid more, see what im worth sorta thing. I wouldnt say im on poor money but not great if you look soley at salary.
That brings me to my next question....what is a decent salary? Its no ones business what anyone earns so i am not looking for board members to sates their wages, but I really dont have a clue what a good or bad salary is?
When I read this back it sounds like I have a grand job, maybe it is. ive just never worked anywhere else. Im sure a baby will be on the way at some point in the next year or two and i would have incredible flexibility when this would happen (school runs, plays, sports days etc). So im not sure what to do. I dont be in the office every day and can avoid rush hour so I dread to think getting stuck in a 9-5 job were I am office based every day and spend 3hrs a day travelling alone.
Any thoughts?
As someone who's in the shoes now you could be in in 1-2 years, having the flexibility of WFH and not having to travel to Belfast 5 days a week is fantastic for all the things you've mentioned school runs, plays, sports days and I honestly believe it would take a lot for me to consider moving jobs right now.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2016, 11:48:37 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 11:37:41 AM
Yeah the 3 month notice is a bit steep alright. If and when I do leave I'll not really let it bother me. In saying that I get on really well with everyone and enjoy my work. Cheers for the opinions guys.
3 months seems overly ridiculous in this day and age I imagine if you aren't a dick about things they'll let you away handy enough.
The CV thing is definitely a problem. Before my current job my CV was 1 year, 18 months, 1 year, 9 months for my previous jobs and my now Director said "looking at your CV you don't look like the kind of boy who's gonna hang about for too long why should I let you mess about here for 18 months wasting my time".
Lucky enough I got over that and I'll be here 5 years now in April!! I've been thinking recently about something else but I'm finding it harder to leave here the longer I stay. It's a good job for this part of the world and the office is 5 minutes from the house so it's way too handy for the childminder/a decent lie in most mornings compared to the wife who heads off to Belfast every morning!
Good points SE. Have a mate who has chopped and changed regularly (for money) and recently got pulled in a couple of interviews over the points you raised.
I think its striking a balance - I'm happy to do 3 months if the next employer is willing to compromise. Not that I'm in a mad panic to leave just yet.
It depends on the urgency of your next employer. I had no problem doing the 3 months as to be honest it's quite a good laid back time.
In my current job I am having reservations and wouldn't be so sure about doing 3 months as it would kill me I think.
1 or 2 short stints are fine but too regularly throughout cv look bad. If you can explain them though not too big a deal. Explain without using the chasing money reason... (career progression a bettr reason...)
TBH as i've got older i've realised that a job/career is not really that important to me and as long as i've enough to pay the bills i'm happy enough. When my quitting times comes (4:45) I'm the first one every day out the door no matter what work i've on, my two kids are coming 11 & 8 so i've only another few years with them before they start telling me to clear off. All the we plays in school and their first day etc are priceless and cannot be taken away if you were lucky enough to get to them.
I think a lot of people forget why they're on this planet and work too long and hard and miss out on certain things (mainly family) that they cannot get back...Work to live and not live to work.
Quote from: illdecide on February 01, 2016, 02:27:26 PM
TBH as i've got older i've realised that a job/career is not really that important to me and as long as i've enough to pay the bills i'm happy enough. When my quitting times comes (4:45) I'm the first one every day out the door no matter what work i've on, my two kids are coming 11 & 8 so i've only another few years with them before they start telling me to clear off. All the we plays in school and their first day etc are priceless and cannot be taken away if you were lucky enough to get to them.
I think a lot of people forget why they're on this planet and work too long and hard and miss out on certain things (mainly family) that they cannot get back...Work to live and not live to work.
+1
Quote from: illdecide on February 01, 2016, 02:27:26 PM
TBH as i've got older i've realised that a job/career is not really that important to me and as long as i've enough to pay the bills i'm happy enough. When my quitting times comes (4:45) I'm the first one every day out the door no matter what work i've on, my two kids are coming 11 & 8 so i've only another few years with them before they start telling me to clear off. All the we plays in school and their first day etc are priceless and cannot be taken away if you were lucky enough to get to them.
I think a lot of people forget why they're on this planet and work too long and hard and miss out on certain things (mainly family) that they cannot get back...Work to live and not live to work.
Hard to argue with that. Fair play
Quote from: illdecide on February 01, 2016, 02:27:26 PM
TBH as i've got older i've realised that a job/career is not really that important to me and as long as i've enough to pay the bills i'm happy enough. When my quitting times comes (4:45) I'm the first one every day out the door no matter what work i've on, my two kids are coming 11 & 8 so i've only another few years with them before they start telling me to clear off. All the we plays in school and their first day etc are priceless and cannot be taken away if you were lucky enough to get to them.
I think a lot of people forget why they're on this planet and work too long and hard and miss out on certain things (mainly family) that they cannot get back...Work to live and not live to work.
My last job was for a startup company that got acquired for $170million- 3 Irish men owned it in NY. The eldest of them (man in his 50s) was on the train one day home with me - civil man - I asked him how do you strike the balance between being as successful as you are and being a husband and a dad. He said you can't. I have 2 daughters in their late teens and they dont want to know me - they love the stuff I've bought and provide but they told me i came to them too late...
Work life balance is very important. I'm blessed to sit down with the family 6 days a week for breakfast lunch and dinner.
QuoteI asked him how do you strike the balance between being as successful as you are and being a husband and a dad.He said you can't. I have 2 daughters in their late teens and they dont want to know me - they love the stuff I've bought and provide but they told me i came to them too late...
Yep it's all about your priorities - Cat's in the Cradle and all that. I gave up a job in the early noughties because of the travel and being away when the kids were younger and although from a career perspective it was detrimental it was the best decision I made.
I know a few boys pretty well in mid to late 30s who are at CxO level in pretty big companies and it's definitely not a work life balance I'd choose looking at it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 02, 2016, 08:08:16 AM
I know a few boys pretty well in mid to late 30s who are at CxO level in pretty big companies and it's definitely not a work life balance I'd choose looking at it.
So if you were asked to become a director of a company or a CEO then you'd decline it? When you work at something and become good at it and the reward is a sharp rise in your wage, which will of course involve a rise in workload and pressure/stress be hard not to give it a go....
I've hopefully struck a good work life balance that is more profitable than my last job in teaching....kids older now so demand less time of you, still get to see them at their sports at the weekend but they are more interested in their time with their friends so its more of a taxi man at the weekend!!!
Its like Woody & Buzz.
As long as youre there for them when they need you most.
My ex brother in law worked for a big company here and after a few years he worked up to be their International Manager and lived all over the world, sometimes my sister went with him and sometimes she didn't. They split up a few years back and he continued his role living in China and God only knows where else. He a had a big row with his 20 year old daughter at Christmas time calling her a spoilt brat etc (which is true...lol) but she came back with the line..."Yes, you give me everything i ever wanted and thru money at me from i was no age but you were never there to physically hand it over or take us anywhere...you just paid someone to do it for you and your answer was to give me more money for not being there". The ex brother in law admitted to me recently that he put his career before his marriage and that was the reason for its failure and he also admitted that his kids are now all grown up and he wasn't there for hardly any of it.
Now he can show us payslips showing he earns £150,000 plus bonuses and also his 2nd salary for living abroad but is he happy? and his kids obviously have issues...I dunno, we all love to have our pockets lined with the hard currency but at what price?
Jasus i'm sounding like Jeremy Kyle here...lol
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
I will or at least die knowing a gave it a good attempt without any regrets.
Your response though is pretty standard for most people with kids trying to get their head around me not wanting them. If a person has kids and happy; then why do they care what other people do or say but don't give out to people about not wanting them.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
I will or at least die knowing a gave it a good attempt without any regrets.
Your response though is pretty standard for most people with kids trying to get their head around me not wanting them. If a person has kids and happy; then why do they care what other people do or say but don't give out to people about not wanting them.
Think it was a genuine attempt to say go fulfil your potential.
Especially if your potential is going to help wider humanity in some shape or form. ;)
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
I will or at least die knowing a gave it a good attempt without any regrets.
Your response though is pretty standard for most people with kids trying to get their head around me not wanting them. If a person has kids and happy; then why do they care what other people do or say but don't give out to people about not wanting them.
Whether you want kids or not is your business...not mine
My point was primarily on my own experience.....
Agree with you.........no regrets.....be the best you can....
Quote from: NAG1 on February 02, 2016, 01:55:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
I will or at least die knowing a gave it a good attempt without any regrets.
Your response though is pretty standard for most people with kids trying to get their head around me not wanting them. If a person has kids and happy; then why do they care what other people do or say but don't give out to people about not wanting them.
Think it was a genuine attempt to say go fulfil your potential.
Especially if your potential is going to help wider humanity in some shape or form. ;)
Well and my pocket too ;)
Quote from: NAG1 on February 02, 2016, 01:55:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
I will or at least die knowing a gave it a good attempt without any regrets.
Your response though is pretty standard for most people with kids trying to get their head around me not wanting them. If a person has kids and happy; then why do they care what other people do or say but don't give out to people about not wanting them.
Think it was a genuine attempt to say go fulfil your potential.
Especially if your potential is going to help wider humanity in some shape or form. ;)
Yep it honestly was......
I used to be that person....extremely focused, driven.....working night & day etc...
Don't get me wrong......I still work extremely hard..........but priorities have changed......predominantly down to having a family...
Personal circumstance..
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
You should go on the apprentice - lmfao!
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
I will or at least die knowing a gave it a good attempt without any regrets.
Your response though is pretty standard for most people with kids trying to get their head around me not wanting them. If a person has kids and happy; then why do they care what other people do or say but don't give out to people about not wanting them.
I concur you shouldnt have kids. ;)
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 02:00:59 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 02, 2016, 01:55:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
I will or at least die knowing a gave it a good attempt without any regrets.
Your response though is pretty standard for most people with kids trying to get their head around me not wanting them. If a person has kids and happy; then why do they care what other people do or say but don't give out to people about not wanting them.
Think it was a genuine attempt to say go fulfil your potential.
Especially if your potential is going to help wider humanity in some shape or form. ;)
Well and my pocket too ;)
Reminds me of that old saying......no pockets in a shroud :D
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 02:01:56 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 02, 2016, 01:55:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on February 02, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 02, 2016, 11:27:46 AM
From the opposite side and I'm not knocking people's decisions to have kids; but I would feel I wasted my life if I didn't fulfill my potential and ambition. I couldn't see myself ever just going through the motions just to have children. It will be conscious decision to step back if I do but either way I'm not bothered.
Wait to you have your first child!
Brings a completely different perspective to life (for me anyway!)
Pretty standard response from most people. I probably wont have any because I couldn't care less about having children.
Go fulfil your potential then!
I will or at least die knowing a gave it a good attempt without any regrets.
Your response though is pretty standard for most people with kids trying to get their head around me not wanting them. If a person has kids and happy; then why do they care what other people do or say but don't give out to people about not wanting them.
Think it was a genuine attempt to say go fulfil your potential.
Especially if your potential is going to help wider humanity in some shape or form. ;)
Yep it honestly was......
I used to be that person....extremely focused, driven.....working night & day etc...
Don't get me wrong......I still work extremely hard..........but priorities have changed......predominantly down to having a family...
Personal circumstance..
Yep no worries. I like my career and lifestyle as is; bring a child into that would be extremely selfish. If my circumstances did change I would re-assess but that would be more down not being careful enough :P
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2016, 09:50:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 02, 2016, 08:08:16 AM
I know a few boys pretty well in mid to late 30s who are at CxO level in pretty big companies and it's definitely not a work life balance I'd choose looking at it.
So if you were asked to become a director of a company or a CEO then you'd decline it? When you work at something and become good at it and the reward is a sharp rise in your wage, which will of course involve a rise in workload and pressure/stress be hard not to give it a go....
I've hopefully struck a good work life balance that is more profitable than my last job in teaching....kids older now so demand less time of you, still get to see them at their sports at the weekend but they are more interested in their time with their friends so its more of a taxi man at the weekend!!!
It takes a certain type of person to be CxO. A lot of the circles these boys move in involves being in London 3-5 days a week. That is fine when single but I wouldn't do it now and not even sure I'd have liked it when single.
Each to their own but these guys are in big big companies and under a lot of strain. Not for me. You are talking 80-100 hour weeks and 3-5 days away from family here. Granted a 6 figure plus salary will reward that.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 02, 2016, 05:21:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2016, 09:50:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 02, 2016, 08:08:16 AM
I know a few boys pretty well in mid to late 30s who are at CxO level in pretty big companies and it's definitely not a work life balance I'd choose looking at it.
So if you were asked to become a director of a company or a CEO then you'd decline it? When you work at something and become good at it and the reward is a sharp rise in your wage, which will of course involve a rise in workload and pressure/stress be hard not to give it a go....
I've hopefully struck a good work life balance that is more profitable than my last job in teaching....kids older now so demand less time of you, still get to see them at their sports at the weekend but they are more interested in their time with their friends so its more of a taxi man at the weekend!!!
It takes a certain type of person to be CxO. A lot of the circles these boys move in involves being in London 3-5 days a week. That is fine when single but I wouldn't do it now and not even sure I'd have liked it when single.
Each to their own but these guys are in big big companies and under a lot of strain. Not for me. You are talking 80-100 hour weeks and 3-5 days away from family here. Granted a 6 figure plus salary will reward that.
To what extent though? If someone gets 40k for a 40 hour week (with their days off to themselves) and someone else gets 100k, or even 150k for a 100 hour week (and effectively always on call), who's better off, who's getting a better hourly rate, especially when you consider the higher rates of tax on the big salary?
You can, of course, have a bigger house full of nice things. But you won't be spending too much time in it.
It's almost a power more thing more than a money thing once you get to those levels.
I would agree with you entirely. They won't be poor but they will miss things like kids growing up.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 02, 2016, 09:29:15 PM
It's almost a power more thing more than a money thing once you get to those levels.
I would agree with you entirely. They won't be poor but they will miss things like kids growing up.
There are other sides to this, a early retirement with a great pension.... Retiring at the age of 68 now will happen!
The ability to ensure you can afford things that will give your family a comfortable life....
Personally I'm for a bitta both... 40 hour week while earning big!! ;D. Hard to find
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2016, 09:48:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 02, 2016, 09:29:15 PM
It's almost a power more thing more than a money thing once you get to those levels.
I would agree with you entirely. They won't be poor but they will miss things like kids growing up.
There are other sides to this, a early retirement with a great pension.... Retiring at the age of 68 now will happen!
The ability to ensure you can afford things that will give your family a comfortable life....
Personally I'm for a bitta both... 40 hour week while earning big!! ;D. Hard to find
It's risky business to work all the hours of the day when you're relatively young and fit, just so that you can have a great pension in 30 years.
And giving your family a 'comfortable life' is very subjective. A family of four could arguably be fairly comfortable (in NI) on less than half a six-figure salary.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2016, 02:05:37 PM
I would love to start my own business but it just seems so daunting. First of all I don't know what I would want my business to be. My own history is mainly financial services and now I'm running the trading side of a Pharma Company so nothing really specialised that I could easily go out on my own.
If I were to go on my own with the current job I have it would be a big outlay at first with getting premises up to standard and I would need a good line of credit to purchase the stock I would be looking for. Along with that it's a crowded marketplace and I would be doing the dirt on my current employers as we would be competing over the same stock.
I suppose I'm waiting for something to jump out at me whether it's investing in something with a friend/family or an opportunity that I see on my own. I have a bit of money I could invest and access to a small amount of credit if the right opportunity came along but I just don't know what it would be!!
I've also toyed with the idea of an MBA but it seems overly expensive and would it guarantee me something big? I'm not so sure.
A lot of engineers I work with in London are all doing MBA's part time. Tbh I think its just to get them to board level eventually as it seems to be the done thing. One masters was enough for me!
An MBA these days is not what it was. I did mine 3 yrs ago just as I was turning 30. I did it primarily because I was burned out in the old job and sick of flying from London to Barcelona/Madrid to see the missus and I knew full well what I was getting myself into because she had done one a couple of years previously.
A few comments:
a) they cost a bomb
b) in spite of what they say about minimum experience, if you are willing to fork over the dough they will likely take you with as little as 18months experience (and even then wouldn't have to be great experience)
c) most people on an MBA are there because they are burnt out in previous job or have hit a ceiling or don't know what they want to do and hope an MBA will open doors
d) because of b) and c) the average quality people on them are not as good as you would like them to be - don't think i'd rate more than 25% of my class (although at the top they are very very good)
e) as per b) there can be quite a significant gap in experience between candidates but even if you have 10 yrs experience, which is considerably more than the average MBA, when you come out most companies will try and pay you like you had average experience for an MBA
f) if you have a business degree, you weren't learn a whole lot on the technical side (but probably will on soft skills etc) but if you come from technical/engineering background I definitely think there is much more value.
In spite of all that if you can afford to forego salary and piss away the guts of EUR 80k or more then there are worse ways to spend a year or two.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2016, 09:48:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 02, 2016, 09:29:15 PM
It's almost a power more thing more than a money thing once you get to those levels.
I would agree with you entirely. They won't be poor but they will miss things like kids growing up.
There are other sides to this, a early retirement with a great pension.... Retiring at the age of 68 now will happen!
The ability to ensure you can afford things that will give your family a comfortable life....
Personally I'm for a bitta both... 40 hour week while earning big!! ;D. Hard to find
You and the bigfella living the dream.
Quote from: No wides on February 02, 2016, 11:21:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2016, 09:48:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 02, 2016, 09:29:15 PM
It's almost a power more thing more than a money thing once you get to those levels.
I would agree with you entirely. They won't be poor but they will miss things like kids growing up.
There are other sides to this, a early retirement with a great pension.... Retiring at the age of 68 now will happen!
The ability to ensure you can afford things that will give your family a comfortable life....
Personally I'm for a bitta both... 40 hour week while earning big!! ;D. Hard to find
You and the bigfella living the dream.
40 hour week, teenagers, mortgage, bills, loans....
No different to anyone else.... But I've a happy life
An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.
The Mexican replied, "only a little while. The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The American then asked, "but what do you do with the rest of your time?"
The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life." The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise."
The Mexican fisherman asked, "But, how long will this all take?"
To which the American replied, "15 – 20 years."
"But what then?" Asked the Mexican.
The American laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!"
"Millions – then what?"
The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
Yes but my attitude is simple, i start work at 8:00am (most other employee's at 8:30) bar about 20 mins of my day browsing the GAA Board i actually work pretty hard and i believe if any man does 8hrs hard work a day then he should get home as soon as he's entitled too. I also have a small boiler servicing and repair business that i do and i'm always on call from i get home from my day job and i know that's a bit of a contradiction to me not wanting to work long hours but it's a different type of work that i do during the day and I don't mind it plus it's an extra bit of cash. I also manage our club's U16 team and am responsible for our pitch (grass cutting etc) and general maintenance around the club, i'm on the club committee and also try to get a bit of training in to keep myself in a bit of shape (not round) ohh and the two kids have to be looked after in there somewhere too...lol. So me rushing out the work door at 4:45 does not tell the true story of my busy life style but then again on reflection is my lifestyle any better/worse than the guys we've previously been talking about :-\
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
They get away it so let them at it. Most of these people would be unemployable in the private sector so they are happy to kill time.
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
They get away it so let them at it. Most of these people would be unemployable in the private sector so they are happy to kill time.
Yeah but when your rates and taxes pay for them it's a bit infuriating.
(Although I now live abroad so I don't pay a penny for them - I pay for a much less efficient [yes, it's possible!] civil service over here)
Quote from: CiKe on February 02, 2016, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2016, 02:05:37 PM
I would love to start my own business but it just seems so daunting. First of all I don't know what I would want my business to be. My own history is mainly financial services and now I'm running the trading side of a Pharma Company so nothing really specialised that I could easily go out on my own.
If I were to go on my own with the current job I have it would be a big outlay at first with getting premises up to standard and I would need a good line of credit to purchase the stock I would be looking for. Along with that it's a crowded marketplace and I would be doing the dirt on my current employers as we would be competing over the same stock.
I suppose I'm waiting for something to jump out at me whether it's investing in something with a friend/family or an opportunity that I see on my own. I have a bit of money I could invest and access to a small amount of credit if the right opportunity came along but I just don't know what it would be!!
I've also toyed with the idea of an MBA but it seems overly expensive and would it guarantee me something big? I'm not so sure.
A lot of engineers I work with in London are all doing MBA's part time. Tbh I think its just to get them to board level eventually as it seems to be the done thing. One masters was enough for me!
An MBA these days is not what it was. I did mine 3 yrs ago just as I was turning 30. I did it primarily because I was burned out in the old job and sick of flying from London to Barcelona/Madrid to see the missus and I knew full well what I was getting myself into because she had done one a couple of years previously.
A few comments:
a) they cost a bomb
b) in spite of what they say about minimum experience, if you are willing to fork over the dough they will likely take you with as little as 18months experience (and even then wouldn't have to be great experience)
c) most people on an MBA are there because they are burnt out in previous job or have hit a ceiling or don't know what they want to do and hope an MBA will open doors
d) because of b) and c) the average quality people on them are not as good as you would like them to be - don't think i'd rate more than 25% of my class (although at the top they are very very good)
e) as per b) there can be quite a significant gap in experience between candidates but even if you have 10 yrs experience, which is considerably more than the average MBA, when you come out most companies will try and pay you like you had average experience for an MBA
f) if you have a business degree, you weren't learn a whole lot on the technical side (but probably will on soft skills etc) but if you come from technical/engineering background I definitely think there is much more value.
In spite of all that if you can afford to forego salary and piss away the guts of EUR 80k or more then there are worse ways to spend a year or two.
As you would expect from an MBA graduate very thorough and a complicated list!! lol
No seriously thanks for the info. If I were to do it I'd probably do it up here in Queens or UU Part Time over the 2 years. Is there any prestige or advantage of a certain college over the other? Queens is £14k and UU £12k.
To be honest I would probably fall into the "Don't know what to do and hope an MBA will open doors" while I've probably hit a ceiling as well where I'm at as I work under the MD and he owns the business!
If I complete the MBA what can I expect in terms of a new job? The more I look at it the more I think it's something that will give me options but I probably need to figure out myself what I want to do before I go into it.
Must be some sort of mid life crisis I'm having @ 34!!
QuoteIs there any prestige or advantage of a certain college over the other?
Unfortunately, in a word, yes.
In saying that, it's all relative to the market you're in. Don't know anything about the MBA that either of Queen's or UUJ offer, so they may be useful for opening a few doors with local firms etc, but neither of them are likely to be held in too much esteem in a multinational.
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
They get away it so let them at it. Most of these people would be unemployable in the private sector so they are happy to kill time.
That may be the case but even those in a relatively low-paying job will retire earlier and on a better pension than a better paid private sector worker. My brother in law works in the silly service and he says whilst they have banned overtime during the week he can come in Sat and Sun at double time as well as accruing flexi days for the hours he builds up during the week.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 03, 2016, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
They get away it so let them at it. Most of these people would be unemployable in the private sector so they are happy to kill time.
That may be the case but even those in a relatively low-paying job will retire earlier and on a better pension than a better paid private sector worker. My brother in law works in the silly service and he says whilst they have banned overtime during the week he can come in Sat and Sun at double time as well as accruing flexi days for the hours he builds up during the week.
Maybe that's how it looks now, but there's plenty of room sof things to change 10, 20, 40 years down the line. Private sector companies (mine included) have had to and will continue to have to make changes to pension arrangements. The public sector simply won't be able to avoid this. Agreements will be torn up etc.
One of my mates in the council did a good bit of overtime at Christmas where he was paid double time, his acrrual of flexi (he can take two days a month flexi ffs) counted double and he got a day in lieu. f**king ridiculous.
The same lad a few years ago moved from a casual dress administration job to one where he was told he'd need a shirt and tie, so was given 300 quid, every six months as a "uniform allowance". Even more f**king ridiculous.
He's not particularly well paid, doesn't have too much cash left over at the end of the month, is capable of much, much more (either in the public or private sector) and has recently moved out of the flat he shared with a mate to one where he's moving in with two randoms. He clearly has a job and no career, but would anyone really want to be in that position? Even pushing yourself that tiny bit more can work wonders.
Quote from: screenexile on February 03, 2016, 10:58:33 AM
Quote from: CiKe on February 02, 2016, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 01, 2016, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 01, 2016, 02:05:37 PM
I would love to start my own business but it just seems so daunting. First of all I don't know what I would want my business to be. My own history is mainly financial services and now I'm running the trading side of a Pharma Company so nothing really specialised that I could easily go out on my own.
If I were to go on my own with the current job I have it would be a big outlay at first with getting premises up to standard and I would need a good line of credit to purchase the stock I would be looking for. Along with that it's a crowded marketplace and I would be doing the dirt on my current employers as we would be competing over the same stock.
I suppose I'm waiting for something to jump out at me whether it's investing in something with a friend/family or an opportunity that I see on my own. I have a bit of money I could invest and access to a small amount of credit if the right opportunity came along but I just don't know what it would be!!
I've also toyed with the idea of an MBA but it seems overly expensive and would it guarantee me something big? I'm not so sure.
A lot of engineers I work with in London are all doing MBA's part time. Tbh I think its just to get them to board level eventually as it seems to be the done thing. One masters was enough for me!
An MBA these days is not what it was. I did mine 3 yrs ago just as I was turning 30. I did it primarily because I was burned out in the old job and sick of flying from London to Barcelona/Madrid to see the missus and I knew full well what I was getting myself into because she had done one a couple of years previously.
A few comments:
a) they cost a bomb
b) in spite of what they say about minimum experience, if you are willing to fork over the dough they will likely take you with as little as 18months experience (and even then wouldn't have to be great experience)
c) most people on an MBA are there because they are burnt out in previous job or have hit a ceiling or don't know what they want to do and hope an MBA will open doors
d) because of b) and c) the average quality people on them are not as good as you would like them to be - don't think i'd rate more than 25% of my class (although at the top they are very very good)
e) as per b) there can be quite a significant gap in experience between candidates but even if you have 10 yrs experience, which is considerably more than the average MBA, when you come out most companies will try and pay you like you had average experience for an MBA
f) if you have a business degree, you weren't learn a whole lot on the technical side (but probably will on soft skills etc) but if you come from technical/engineering background I definitely think there is much more value.
In spite of all that if you can afford to forego salary and piss away the guts of EUR 80k or more then there are worse ways to spend a year or two.
As you would expect from an MBA graduate very thorough and a complicated list!! lol
No seriously thanks for the info. If I were to do it I'd probably do it up here in Queens or UU Part Time over the 2 years. Is there any prestige or advantage of a certain college over the other? Queens is £14k and UU £12k.
To be honest I would probably fall into the "Don't know what to do and hope an MBA will open doors" while I've probably hit a ceiling as well where I'm at as I work under the MD and he owns the business!
If I complete the MBA what can I expect in terms of a new job? The more I look at it the more I think it's something that will give me options but I probably need to figure out myself what I want to do before I go into it.
Must be some sort of mid life crisis I'm having @ 34!!
I finished the UU MBA a couple of years ago. I had the opportunity to do it for free so went for it. If I'd paid for it I would've wanted a refund - I didn't think it was great and was nowhere near as challenging as it should've been. If you want an MBA with a distinction for relatively little work then it would be the one to go for, but if you want something that's going to challenge you and bring you on a bit then I'd look elsewhere
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 03, 2016, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
They get away it so let them at it. Most of these people would be unemployable in the private sector so they are happy to kill time.
That may be the case but even those in a relatively low-paying job will retire earlier and on a better pension than a better paid private sector worker. My brother in law works in the silly service and he says whilst they have banned overtime during the week he can come in Sat and Sun at double time as well as accruing flexi days for the hours he builds up during the week.
I don't disagree with that for one minute, and each to their own but I like some job satisfaction, these people are stuck in a rut and become institutionalized, they would have a heart attack if they were made work in the real world where they couldn't hide all day.
Quote from: gallsman on February 03, 2016, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 03, 2016, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
They get away it so let them at it. Most of these people would be unemployable in the private sector so they are happy to kill time.
That may be the case but even those in a relatively low-paying job will retire earlier and on a better pension than a better paid private sector worker. My brother in law works in the silly service and he says whilst they have banned overtime during the week he can come in Sat and Sun at double time as well as accruing flexi days for the hours he builds up during the week.
Maybe that's how it looks now, but there's plenty of room sof things to change 10, 20, 40 years down the line. Private sector companies (mine included) have had to and will continue to have to make changes to pension arrangements. The public sector simply won't be able to avoid this. Agreements will be torn up etc.
One of my mates in the council did a good bit of overtime at Christmas where he was paid double time, his acrrual of flexi (he can take two days a month flexi ffs) counted double and he got a day in lieu. f**king ridiculous.
The same lad a few years ago moved from a casual dress administration job to one where he was told he'd need a shirt and tie, so was given 300 quid, every six months as a "uniform allowance". Even more f**king ridiculous.
He's not particularly well paid, doesn't have too much cash left over at the end of the month, is capable of much, much more (either in the public or private sector) and has recently moved out of the flat he shared with a mate to one where he's moving in with two randoms. He clearly has a job and no career, but would anyone really want to be in that position? Even pushing yourself that tiny bit more can work wonders.
I work in the civil service myself and I have to agree there are far too many in here who dont realise how good we have it with the flexi time etc.. I myself have been looking to get out though but with no degree its hard but just think there has to be better oppurtunites elsewhere to push yourself on as this kind of job you could sit at the same grade for 20-30 years.
I wouldn't say every dept has to easy though and there are hard workers and slackers as in every job.
There's a fella in our work who I'm sure is earning 35-40k a year. If there's a lazier person out there I have yet to find them. People always aim at the civil service but you can get them anywhere.
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
Quote from: Longshanks on February 03, 2016, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 03, 2016, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 03, 2016, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
They get away it so let them at it. Most of these people would be unemployable in the private sector so they are happy to kill time.
That may be the case but even those in a relatively low-paying job will retire earlier and on a better pension than a better paid private sector worker. My brother in law works in the silly service and he says whilst they have banned overtime during the week he can come in Sat and Sun at double time as well as accruing flexi days for the hours he builds up during the week.
Maybe that's how it looks now, but there's plenty of room sof things to change 10, 20, 40 years down the line. Private sector companies (mine included) have had to and will continue to have to make changes to pension arrangements. The public sector simply won't be able to avoid this. Agreements will be torn up etc.
One of my mates in the council did a good bit of overtime at Christmas where he was paid double time, his acrrual of flexi (he can take two days a month flexi ffs) counted double and he got a day in lieu. f**king ridiculous.
The same lad a few years ago moved from a casual dress administration job to one where he was told he'd need a shirt and tie, so was given 300 quid, every six months as a "uniform allowance". Even more f**king ridiculous.
He's not particularly well paid, doesn't have too much cash left over at the end of the month, is capable of much, much more (either in the public or private sector) and has recently moved out of the flat he shared with a mate to one where he's moving in with two randoms. He clearly has a job and no career, but would anyone really want to be in that position? Even pushing yourself that tiny bit more can work wonders.
I work in the civil service myself and I have to agree there are far too many in here who dont realise how good we have it with the flexi time etc.. I myself have been looking to get out though but with no degree its hard but just think there has to be better oppurtunites elsewhere to push yourself on as this kind of job you could sit at the same grade for 20-30 years.
I wouldn't say every dept has to easy though and there are hard workers and slackers as in every job.
I would agree with that.
I work in the Public sector too, but tbh I would love to get out of it as the attitudes at times really frustrate me.
The thing is, the perks like flexi and good holiday and pensions leave it hard to leave, even though I get little to no job satisfaction from what I do.
In terms of how hard you work, I think it varies a lot from the different departments and teams, and even though I would work in one of whats viewed as the busiest and most demanding teams, I still find the work load OK in general and it bugs me abit when I hear people whining about how busy they are.
I suppose that's just maybe because I come from a private sector background and this is the first public sector job I have had, so I can see the contrasts.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on February 03, 2016, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: Longshanks on February 03, 2016, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 03, 2016, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 03, 2016, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
There's a balance here - you can work hard in a tough, job, still have time to live and enjoy life without having illdecide's attitude of walking out the door at 4.45 every day.
I know some lads who work for Belfast CC and the civil service. Their stories are appalling in terms of what people expect from their job. Sick leave taken as entitlements etc
They get away it so let them at it. Most of these people would be unemployable in the private sector so they are happy to kill time.
That may be the case but even those in a relatively low-paying job will retire earlier and on a better pension than a better paid private sector worker. My brother in law works in the silly service and he says whilst they have banned overtime during the week he can come in Sat and Sun at double time as well as accruing flexi days for the hours he builds up during the week.
Maybe that's how it looks now, but there's plenty of room sof things to change 10, 20, 40 years down the line. Private sector companies (mine included) have had to and will continue to have to make changes to pension arrangements. The public sector simply won't be able to avoid this. Agreements will be torn up etc.
One of my mates in the council did a good bit of overtime at Christmas where he was paid double time, his acrrual of flexi (he can take two days a month flexi ffs) counted double and he got a day in lieu. f**king ridiculous.
The same lad a few years ago moved from a casual dress administration job to one where he was told he'd need a shirt and tie, so was given 300 quid, every six months as a "uniform allowance". Even more f**king ridiculous.
He's not particularly well paid, doesn't have too much cash left over at the end of the month, is capable of much, much more (either in the public or private sector) and has recently moved out of the flat he shared with a mate to one where he's moving in with two randoms. He clearly has a job and no career, but would anyone really want to be in that position? Even pushing yourself that tiny bit more can work wonders.
I work in the civil service myself and I have to agree there are far too many in here who dont realise how good we have it with the flexi time etc.. I myself have been looking to get out though but with no degree its hard but just think there has to be better oppurtunites elsewhere to push yourself on as this kind of job you could sit at the same grade for 20-30 years.
I wouldn't say every dept has to easy though and there are hard workers and slackers as in every job.
I would agree with that.
I work in the Public sector too, but tbh I would love to get out of it as the attitudes at times really frustrate me.
The thing is, the perks like flexi and good holiday and pensions leave it hard to leave, even though I get little to no job satisfaction from what I do.
In terms of how hard you work, I think it varies a lot from the different departments and teams, and even though I would work in one of whats viewed as the busiest and most demanding teams, I still find the work load OK in general and it bugs me abit when I hear people whining about how busy they are.
I suppose that's just maybe because I come from a private sector background and this is the first public sector job I have had, so I can see the contrasts.
+1
Difficult to tar all CS workers with the same brush same as it is with private sector workers.
It takes all sorts of people, both hard working and not so hard working and a mix is found in both sectors. People in the CS obviously are paid slightly less but have the other benefits that have been mentioned to compensate for them doing their job (which is fair enough if they actually do it).
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
Couldn't give a shite about the letters after the name I'm just looking a way into a high level job I suppose.
I'm an engineer but decided to work for a non-profit group for a couple of years as a project manager. I now do more facilitating, project start ups and running workshops. Hoping it'll stand to me (cv) when I come to change. Anyone any experience of working in the non-profit sector?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 03, 2016, 02:39:57 PM
I'm an engineer but decided to work for a non-profit group for a couple of years as a project manager. I now do more facilitating, project start ups and running workshops. Hoping it'll stand to me (cv) when I come to change. Anyone any experience of working in the non-profit sector?
When you say you "decided to work for a non-profit group for a couple of years " did you do this a s a secondment or did you leave your old job to take up this role?
What type of engineer?
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on February 03, 2016, 02:48:11 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 03, 2016, 02:39:57 PM
I'm an engineer but decided to work for a non-profit group for a couple of years as a project manager. I now do more facilitating, project start ups and running workshops. Hoping it'll stand to me (cv) when I come to change. Anyone any experience of working in the non-profit sector?
When you say you "decided to work for a non-profit group for a couple of years " did you do this a s a secondment or did you leave your old job to take up this role?
What type of engineer?
Civil Engineer but primarily worked as an Urban Designer abroad before that. Decided a slight change would be refreshing and the organisation I work for now is still within the construction industry. Been here 1.75 years or so.
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
There are folk posting on here obviously love the element, in my 22 years of working, I have found most bosses to be wabs with women bosses being the biggest wabs.
I've just become unemployed for the first time in about 10 years. I knew this day was coming as i've been working in academia on 'soft money' (contract work) for the last 7 years. I've spent the best part of 9 months applying for academic jobs but have nothing to show for it other than a handful of interviews.
I'm trying to stay positive - telling myself that it is a new beginning and that i can move in any direction i want but i'm not really sure what I should do next. Truth be told, I don't really feel fit for purpose for too many other jobs. Any ex-academics out there who have retrained? Or indeed any one who has made a major career change in middle age?
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
That kind of attitude gets my goat up(not yours - the attitude you describe!)... Fair enough if you're someone's boss and you know more than them but the IT industry is full of management bodies telling tech bodies what to do when they haven't a clue what they are talking about. It is very tough to listen to at times. Boys(and girls) who have done nothing technical to speak of telling you what to do on a technical level - annoys my head!
Quote from: Clov on February 03, 2016, 04:37:33 PM
I've just become unemployed for the first time in about 10 years. I knew this day was coming as i've been working in academia on 'soft money' (contract work) for the last 7 years. I've spent the best part of 9 months applying for academic jobs but have nothing to show for it other than a handful of interviews.
I'm trying to stay positive - telling myself that it is a new beginning and that i can move in any direction i want but i'm not really sure what I should do next. Truth be told, I don't really feel fit for purpose for too many other jobs. Any ex-academics out there who have retrained? Or indeed any one who has made a major career change in middle age?
How about online study (Open University) if you want a career change? Not at the middle aged stage yet so cant help you there. Any other research organisations out there that might be suitable? Being an academic you'll have a wealth of knowledge so don't appear downbeat. I'm sure you are very employable!
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
There are folk posting on here obviously love the element, in my 22 years of working, I have found most bosses to be wabs with women bosses being the biggest wabs.
Do name?
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 04:09:54 PM
There are folk posting on here obviously love the element, in my 22 years of working, I have found most bosses to be wabs with women bosses being the biggest wabs.
Interesting...I don't even know what a wab is, but it doesn't sound good.
Clov - have you thought about using your knowledge of education in a "consulting" sphere (yes I know, that's very very broad!). Do a Prince2 project management course (appears to only take a week to get the qualification...) and you might find opportunities in companies like the Big 4 accounting firms where they look for people who have been out in various industries to come in and help advise on large scale transformation projects. For example, my firm employs a former physiotherapist who joined a Healthcare Advisory team, and they do work for the NHS or Dept of Health in implementing things like Transforming Your Care. He's useful because he knows how healthcare systems work.
I'm sure some big firms would be interested in educational specialists. Just a thought.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2016, 04:40:22 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
That kind of attitude gets my goat up(not yours - the attitude you describe!)... Fair enough if you're someone's boss and you know more than them but the IT industry is full of management bodies telling tech bodies what to do when they haven't a clue what they are talking about. It is very tough to listen to at times. Boys(and girls) who have done nothing technical to speak of telling you what to do on a technical level - annoys my head!
The flip side of that is too many businesses giving undue to influence to the IT department where business decisions and strategy start being decided on IT capability.
There is a balance to be struck gallsman i know but i mean project managementish area rather than business heads.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 03, 2016, 04:55:32 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
There are folk posting on here obviously love the element, in my 22 years of working, I have found most bosses to be wabs with women bosses being the biggest wabs.
Do name?
If the shoe fits!
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2016, 04:40:22 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
That kind of attitude gets my goat up(not yours - the attitude you describe!)... Fair enough if you're someone's boss and you know more than them but the IT industry is full of management bodies telling tech bodies what to do when they haven't a clue what they are talking about. It is very tough to listen to at times. Boys(and girls) who have done nothing technical to speak of telling you what to do on a technical level - annoys my head!
Or telling customers what the tech guys will deliver without ever consulting if it is even possible!
Quote from: Clov on February 03, 2016, 04:37:33 PM
I've just become unemployed for the first time in about 10 years. I knew this day was coming as i've been working in academia on 'soft money' (contract work) for the last 7 years. I've spent the best part of 9 months applying for academic jobs but have nothing to show for it other than a handful of interviews.
I'm trying to stay positive - telling myself that it is a new beginning and that i can move in any direction i want but i'm not really sure what I should do next. Truth be told, I don't really feel fit for purpose for too many other jobs. Any ex-academics out there who have retrained? Or indeed any one who has made a major career change in middle age?
Two job career changes in past 15 years, (I'm 44) moved into teaching when my Engineering jobs were becoming a chore (Bombardier) taught in various colleges and loved it but came to a ceiling, wage wise (though did try to buy into an organisation) but took a gamble and changed to sales, medical sales and haven't looked back, though it was a tough 60 odd weeks training and completing course, but it has massively paid off....
Never look at a losing a job as negative I've always changed jobs every 4 years to create a new buzz, but I cant see me changing now, great company great job satisfaction and if you work hard (40 hour week) then great money... If you have any gumption you'll find something that could work out well for you... Good luck with it and view it as challenge
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
It's the part of my that job I hate. I tend to let them get on with it and advise as required but my boss says I don't delegate enough. Our place is so busy most managers are doers first and managers second. I'm not great at appraisal time and having to deliver pep talks. Definitely prefer project work than management. As for management v technical, practically every manager in our place has a direct technical background to their area of management and it certainly helps with credibility.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2016, 07:03:28 PM
There is a balance to be struck gallsman i know but i mean project managementish area rather than business heads.
I've worked in this area so know what you mean - PMs need to stay out of technical design etc but they do need to get involved in telling IT to get their shit moving and stop low balling the estimates by 25%.
QuoteI've worked in this area so know what you mean - PMs need to stay out of technical design etc but they do need to get involved in telling IT to get their shit moving and stop low balling the estimates by 25%.
+100% - Welcome to my world
Quote from: No wides on February 03, 2016, 08:29:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 03, 2016, 04:40:22 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 03, 2016, 02:10:02 PM
Do people love the power element of being someones boss, do the letters after your name make you stick your chest out? Not criticizing anyone just asking as clearly it's important to some people
That kind of attitude gets my goat up(not yours - the attitude you describe!)... Fair enough if you're someone's boss and you know more than them but the IT industry is full of management bodies telling tech bodies what to do when they haven't a clue what they are talking about. It is very tough to listen to at times. Boys(and girls) who have done nothing technical to speak of telling you what to do on a technical level - annoys my head!
Or telling customers what the tech guys will deliver without ever consulting if it is even possible!
My world!
One of the reasons I stayed with my company and put up with that sh*t and no pay rises the last 2 years was because of the flexibility, I work from home 3 days a week. The company has now decided world wide to revoke working from home and everyone needs to be back in the office by the end of April. Just another effort to encourage workers to take voluntary redundancy. This is a company with over $100 Billion in assets and only made $5 Billion profit last year.
Feel your pain Dinny I work from home full time, though in fairness if they revoked it in our place it would go under my 82 hour week last week would be the standard 37 as it would for the majority of the tech guys there has to be give and take.
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 09:18:01 AM
Feel your pain Dinny I work from home full time, though in fairness if they revoked it in our place it would go under my 82 hour week last week would be the standard 37 as it would for the majority of the tech guys there has to be give and take.
If you turn the computer on that's you working?? 82 hours?? Overtime?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2016, 02:15:05 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 09:18:01 AM
Feel your pain Dinny I work from home full time, though in fairness if they revoked it in our place it would go under my 82 hour week last week would be the standard 37 as it would for the majority of the tech guys there has to be give and take.
If you turn the computer on that's you working?? 82 hours?? Overtime?
Yeah I submit time sheets to be billed from the customer and all based on me just saying I am working. ::) Last week wasn't a normal week but 45 - 50 would be a norm, point I was making is that tech companies know the hours folk put in and if they are demanding the same level of service being in the office they are the one's going to lose out.
Some weeks I put in 85 hours on GaaBoard.
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 02:27:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2016, 02:15:05 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 09:18:01 AM
Feel your pain Dinny I work from home full time, though in fairness if they revoked it in our place it would go under my 82 hour week last week would be the standard 37 as it would for the majority of the tech guys there has to be give and take.
If you turn the computer on that's you working?? 82 hours?? Overtime?
Yeah I submit time sheets to be billed from the customer and all based on me just saying I am working. ::) Last week wasn't a normal week but 45 - 50 would be a norm, point I was making is that tech companies know the hours folk put in and if they are demanding the same level of service being in the office they are the one's going to lose out.
I think you are deluding yourself on that one. They just hire people who can get the work done on their terms; the days certain tech resources are seen as indispensable are gone.
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
You're talking about production deployments and hot fixes? How many of them do you do a week? I used to be that soldier, 24x7x365 on call when I was in the states. It was a pain in the scrotum, but I rarely, if ever, had to do more than once 'Production work' incident a week. The on call bit was the bollix. I had to dial into work from a bar in San Diego on Paddy's day, using the modem port on a public pay phone! The good old days.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 04, 2016, 03:36:54 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
You're talking about production deployments and hot fixes? How many of them do you do a week? I used to be that soldier, 24x7x365 on call when I was in the states. It was a pain in the scrotum, but I rarely, if ever, had to do more than once 'Production work' incident a week. The on call bit was the bollix. I had to dial into work from a bar in San Diego on Paddy's day, using the modem port on a public pay phone! The good old days.
Sounds a cake walk, easy money for the on-call then. ;)
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Continuous delivery and automation will kill these tasks eventually. Large tech companies appreciate that this is dead money and are investing this route; but in the meantime outsourcing to companies in different time zones is common practice.
Out of office support in common place in IT departments but that is the exception to the rule. If your deployments are taking 45-50 hours a week, then there is seriously fcuked up.
It was a bollix. Always on tenterhooks. Although I may have caused a worse incident that night in San Diego :)
And the money? $50 a week. Mega :)
Quote from: thebigfella on February 04, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Continuous delivery and automation will kill these tasks eventually. Large tech companies appreciate that this is dead money and are investing this route; but in the meantime outsourcing to companies in different time zones is common practice.
Out of office support in common place in IT departments but that is the exception to the rule. If your deployments are taking 45-50 hours a week, then there is seriously fcuked up.
This is true, but my experience of this area, and I have quite a bit, is that the Dev Ops field in general is far more advanced in the theory and technical possibilities than it is in practicalities and logistics, especially in fields where there is regulatory oversight. (don't laugh).
I do think the day is coming when most IT delivery of software is done via automated builds and deployments, with high quality automated acceptance testing and rollbacks, but it's not tomorrow or the next day.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 04, 2016, 04:01:41 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 04, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Continuous delivery and automation will kill these tasks eventually. Large tech companies appreciate that this is dead money and are investing this route; but in the meantime outsourcing to companies in different time zones is common practice.
Out of office support in common place in IT departments but that is the exception to the rule. If your deployments are taking 45-50 hours a week, then there is seriously fcuked up.
This is true, but my experience of this area, and I have quite a bit, is that the Dev Ops field in general is far more advanced in the theory and technical possibilities than it is in practicalities and logistics, especially in fields where there is regulatory oversight. (don't laugh).
I do think the day is coming when most IT delivery of software is done via automated builds and deployments, with high quality automated acceptance testing and rollbacks, but it's not tomorrow or the next day.
The only thing holding this back is people protecting their own interests. Multi-skilled teams adopt these practices easily because they don't feel threatened. Traditional waterfall teams with defined technical roles always struggle because people put barriers up as they feel their jobs will disappear. The support teams have been around in a lot of traditional IT departments for a long time; most of them contractors too unwilling to share knowledge.
I've been involved in a number of project across a number of highly regulated industries where we adopted this approach. It's happening today and more companies are coming on board as the cost savings outweigh implementation costs. I rolled out one banking project where the cost of implementing automated deployments/rollbacks/environment virtualization etc.. was recouped by the next quarterly deployment.
I'm agreeing with you. I see it myself, but I do find that the technical teams (of which I would be a part) are sometimes more ambitious than the business (yes banking as well) is ready to go.
We were doing CI and deployments in a previous engagement 6 or 7 years ago, and are implementing something very similar in a highly regulated environment at the moment, so it can be done.
You'll always need IT Ops though :) Getting change management online is good craic too :)
I work in Production Operations, all our builds and patching are automated. However you will always have Service Requests, Problem Tickets, Incident Tickets, Change Requests that require full support and a lot have to be done OOH. I do L3 on-call, worth more than $50 a hour ;D Best Shore does L1 and L2. Less and less skilled IT consultants out there, market is very tight. I went to the market recently looking for SQLServer DBA coming in around €550 - €650 a day, an Oracle DBA €500-€600 a day and SAP Basis a whopping €700-€800 a day.
Technical teams in Production Support know the business know the infrastructure, a good Ops team is worth it's weight in gold.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 04, 2016, 04:54:05 PM
I work in Production Operations, all our builds and patching are automated. However you will always have Service Requests, Problem Tickets, Incident Tickets, Change Requests that require full support and a lot have to be done OOH. I do L3 on-call, worth more than $50 a hour ;D Best Shore does L1 and L2. Less and less skilled IT consultants out there, market is very tight. I went to the market recently looking for SQLServer DBA coming in around €550 - €650 a day, an Oracle DBA €500-€600 a day and SAP Basis a whopping €700-€800 a day.
Technical teams in Production Support know the business know the infrastructure, a good Ops team is worth it's weight in gold.
DBA is slightly different though Dinny, in that ye have all the capacity, continuity and ongoing housekeeping going on. What bigfella is talking about is getting change to market. That's where the Dev Ops model, and automation comes into its own. You do need Ops, as I said, and as you correctly said, a good Ops team (which is aided by a good handover from delivery, another thing that is not a given!) is invaluable. Who wants a poxy call at 4am of a Monday morning?
With more continuous deployments comes more dev ops roles though. It will reduce the need for as much in the way of deployment and , hopefully, the traditional QA role.
I would agree in a lot of regards though big fella. I moved a few years ago and where I moved to they're quite backward. I'm trying to move them forward with CI etc etc but it is not easy. People protect empires etc. It tends to be insecure people who work like this but unfortunately too many of them. I come from a background where it's bread and butter and to people who don't have that mentality they can be hard to convince.
It is very hard to find companies, in NI anyway, who are very advanced with continuous delivery microservices, the monitoring you get out of all that, the ability for CD etc etc. I'd love to work in a company more advanced in it. It's moving forward but there is noone within light years of the type of models the likes of netflix / facebook use.
Than should be €50 a week not €50 a hour, that sounds arrogant :-\
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 04, 2016, 05:01:33 PM
Than should be €50 a week not €50 a hour, that sounds arrogant :-\
This was 1997 to 2001, and it was $, not €. :)
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 04, 2016, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 04, 2016, 05:01:33 PM
Than should be €50 a week not €50 a hour, that sounds arrogant :-\
This was 1997 to 2001, and it was $, not €. :)
That's criminal.
Here lads is there not some "IT SOFTWARE NERDY GEEK" thread for all this craic!!
If ye came out of your dungeons for some social interaction once in a while you wouldn't be polluting this thread for us normal people!
;D ;D
Quote from: screenexile on February 04, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
Here lads is there not some "IT SOFTWARE NERDY GEEK" thread for all this craic!!
If ye came out of your dungeons for some social interaction once in a while you wouldn't be polluting this thread for us normal people!
;D ;D
;D
We own the internet, have you no Tyronies to be trolling?
Quote from: thebigfella on February 04, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Continuous delivery and automation will kill these tasks eventually. Large tech companies appreciate that this is dead money and are investing this route; but in the meantime outsourcing to companies in different time zones is common practice.
Out of office support in common place in IT departments but that is the exception to the rule. If your deployments are taking 45-50 hours a week, then there is seriously fcuked up.
That is a serious amount of assumptions you made, no where did I say a deployment takes 45 - 50 hours, I did not even mention deployments also customers don't want their HR data and Financial Data outsourced to India and the likes, keeping it in the UK allows for the necessary security clearances to access such information, but keep making the assumptions!
As for automation. What happens when it goes wrong - oh yes page the tech guy, I am not sure what you work at in the IT industry but we have a lot of automation and a lot that will never or can never be automated.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 04, 2016, 04:17:31 PM
I've been involved in a number of project across a number of highly regulated industries where we adopted this approach. It's happening today and more companies are coming on board as the cost savings outweigh implementation costs. I rolled out one banking project where the cost of implementing automated deployments/rollbacks/environment virtualization etc.. was recouped by the next quarterly deployment.
And after the project gods left, did you automate it all to support itself?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 04, 2016, 05:11:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 04, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
Here lads is there not some "IT SOFTWARE NERDY GEEK" thread for all this craic!!
If ye came out of your dungeons for some social interaction once in a while you wouldn't be polluting this thread for us normal people!
;D ;D
;D
We own the internet, have you no Tyronies to be trolling?
Trolling??!! How dare you!!! 8)
Few issues on the GAABOARD - surely some sort of automation would have sorted it!
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 04, 2016, 04:36:29 PM
I'm agreeing with you. I see it myself, but I do find that the technical teams (of which I would be a part) are sometimes more ambitious than the business (yes banking as well) is ready to go.
We were doing CI and deployments in a previous engagement 6 or 7 years ago, and are implementing something very similar in a highly regulated environment at the moment, so it can be done.
You'll always need IT Ops though :) Getting change management online is good craic too :)
Accept you agreeing with me. I suppose the point I was trying to make was in large organisation where vendors/contractors are involved on the technical side; they protect their interests as opposed to moving forward.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 04, 2016, 04:36:29 PM
I'm agreeing with you. I see it myself, but I do find that the technical teams (of which I would be a part) are sometimes more ambitious than the business (yes banking as well) is ready to go.
We were doing CI and deployments in a previous engagement 6 or 7 years ago, and are implementing something very similar in a highly regulated environment at the moment, so it can be done.
You'll always need IT Ops though :) Getting change management online is good craic too :)
Accept you agreeing with me. I suppose the point I was trying to make was in large organisation where vendors/contractors are involved on the technical side; they protect their interests as opposed to moving forward.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Although I have to say, in many cases the resistance is down to a genuine concern about the loss of 'control' and ergo quality, that automation implies. I think we, as proponents of automation, have to really sell the quality aspect, and the automated testing.
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 04, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Continuous delivery and automation will kill these tasks eventually. Large tech companies appreciate that this is dead money and are investing this route; but in the meantime outsourcing to companies in different time zones is common practice.
Out of office support in common place in IT departments but that is the exception to the rule. If your deployments are taking 45-50 hours a week, then there is seriously fcuked up.
That is a serious amount of assumptions you made, no where did I say a deployment takes 45 - 50 hours,
Your the one on about companies requiring people to work from home to support production systems. If it's not 45-50 hours then there is no need to work from home.
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
I did not even mention deployments
The discussion went that direction but I think we all know that by referring deployment it covers a wide range of scope.
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
also customers don't want their HR data and Financial Data outsourced to India and the likes, keeping it in the UK allows for the necessary security clearances to access such information, but keep making the assumptions!
Your kinda making that up.
Most customers (as in end users) are unaware of the data centre's physical location where a their data is held. The data can be held within a regional data centre to comply with any such regulatory requirements but as with a lot of financial institutions the operations is outsourced to vendors. Your mixing up (legal) security clearance/vetting with authorization; HR data (in most organisations) for example will not require vetting but ideally a company will have their own internal authorization policies.
Certain counties, such as Switzerland, have privacy laws requiring certain data not to be accessible outside the country; but this is the exception to the norm.
[/quote]
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
As for automation. What happens when it goes wrong - oh yes page the tech guy,
You never do away with support for unscheduled exceptional events but read up on Dev Ops and Continuous deployment. In the context of scheduled deployments; the solution is to roll back and try again the next day. Roll back is less of a problem as you have frequent deployments with minimal overheads so no need for this ad-hoc undocumented work arounds that goes on.
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
I am not sure what you work at in the IT industry but we have a lot of automation and a lot that will never or can never be automated.
In your opinion. 10 years ago I maybe would have agreed with you.
You are making lots more assumptions, hopefully you don't work based on assumptions and you do your work based on hard facts or you will go under!
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
I am not sure what you work at in the IT industry but we have a lot of automation and a lot that will never or can never be automated.
In your opinion. 10 years ago I maybe would have agreed with you.
It's not just my opinion it is a fact, something which I like to work with.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 04, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Continuous delivery and automation will kill these tasks eventually. Large tech companies appreciate that this is dead money and are investing this route; but in the meantime outsourcing to companies in different time zones is common practice.
Out of office support in common place in IT departments but that is the exception to the rule. If your deployments are taking 45-50 hours a week, then there is seriously fcuked up.
That is a serious amount of assumptions you made, no where did I say a deployment takes 45 - 50 hours,
Your the one on about companies requiring people to work from home to support production systems. If it's not 45-50 hours then there is no need to work from home.
I was replying to a user Dinny who said his company had revoked working from home, I was saying that my average work week was 45 to 50 hours but that wouldn't be achievable if I worked in an office, so my trade off for doing long hours was the flexibility of working from home.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
also customers don't want their HR data and Financial Data outsourced to India and the likes, keeping it in the UK allows for the necessary security clearances to access such information, but keep making the assumptions!
Your kinda making that up.
Most customers (as in end users) are unaware of the data centre's physical location where a their data is held. The data can be held within a regional data centre to comply with any such regulatory requirements but as with a lot of financial institutions the operations is outsourced to vendors. Your mixing up (legal) security clearance/vetting with authorization; HR data (in most organisations) for example will not require vetting but ideally a company will have their own internal authorization policies.
Certain counties, such as Switzerland, have privacy laws requiring certain data not to be accessible outside the country; but this is the
I don't work in an IT department - our customers are private and public sector institutions so yes they are aware and do care where their data resides and who accesses it.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
As for automation. What happens when it goes wrong - oh yes page the tech guy,
You never do away with support for unscheduled exceptional events but read up on Dev Ops and Continuous deployment. In the context of scheduled deployments; the solution is to roll back and try again the next day. Roll back is less of a problem as you have frequent deployments with minimal overheads so no need for this ad-hoc undocumented work arounds that goes on.
You sound like you are rolling out a desktop refresh, somethings are a lot more complicated and cannot be automated, but you seem to have the whole IT sector covered!
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:15:24 PM
You are making lots more assumptions, hopefully you don't work based on assumptions and you do your work based on hard facts or you will go under!
You keep quoting facts here but unless we all detail what we do day to day and our industries; we have to make a few assumptions in order to have a discussion ::)
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:27:28 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:15:24 PM
You are making lots more assumptions, hopefully you don't work based on assumptions and you do your work based on hard facts or you will go under!
You keep quoting facts here but unless we all detail what we do day to day and our industries; we have to make a few assumptions in order to have a discussion ::)
Go for it, ill follow your lead.
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
I am not sure what you work at in the IT industry but we have a lot of automation and a lot that will never or can never be automated.
In your opinion. 10 years ago I maybe would have agreed with you.
It's not just my opinion it is a fact, something which I like to work with.
Stating it's fact doesn't make it so.
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:20:25 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 04, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Continuous delivery and automation will kill these tasks eventually. Large tech companies appreciate that this is dead money and are investing this route; but in the meantime outsourcing to companies in different time zones is common practice.
Out of office support in common place in IT departments but that is the exception to the rule. If your deployments are taking 45-50 hours a week, then there is seriously fcuked up.
That is a serious amount of assumptions you made, no where did I say a deployment takes 45 - 50 hours,
Your the one on about companies requiring people to work from home to support production systems. If it's not 45-50 hours then there is no need to work from home.
I was replying to a user Dinny who said his company had revoked working from home, I was saying that my average work week was 45 to 50 hours but that wouldn't be achievable if I worked in an office, so my trade off for doing long hours was the flexibility of working from home.
I'd say most of our average work weeks are around that and most of us work in offices. I don't see why you need to work from home just because you can't manage your work load either.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
I am not sure what you work at in the IT industry but we have a lot of automation and a lot that will never or can never be automated.
In your opinion. 10 years ago I maybe would have agreed with you.
It's not just my opinion it is a fact, something which I like to work with.
Stating it's fact doesn't make it so.
It does when it is a fact, disagreeing because you don't know the facts also doesn't make it so.
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:23:50 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
As for automation. What happens when it goes wrong - oh yes page the tech guy,
You never do away with support for unscheduled exceptional events but read up on Dev Ops and Continuous deployment. In the context of scheduled deployments; the solution is to roll back and try again the next day. Roll back is less of a problem as you have frequent deployments with minimal overheads so no need for this ad-hoc undocumented work arounds that goes on.
You sound like you are rolling out a desktop refresh, somethings are a lot more complicated and cannot be automated, but you seem to have the whole IT sector covered!
::) ::) ::)
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:33:31 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
I am not sure what you work at in the IT industry but we have a lot of automation and a lot that will never or can never be automated.
In your opinion. 10 years ago I maybe would have agreed with you.
It's not just my opinion it is a fact, something which I like to work with.
Stating it's fact doesn't make it so.
It does when it is a fact, disagreeing because you don't know the facts also doesn't make it so.
::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:33:04 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:20:25 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 05, 2016, 12:10:57 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 04, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: No wides on February 04, 2016, 03:34:26 PM
The work won't get done in the confines of an office, must Production work has to be done out of hours, large tech companies appreciate that and give the trade off to work from home.
Continuous delivery and automation will kill these tasks eventually. Large tech companies appreciate that this is dead money and are investing this route; but in the meantime outsourcing to companies in different time zones is common practice.
Out of office support in common place in IT departments but that is the exception to the rule. If your deployments are taking 45-50 hours a week, then there is seriously fcuked up.
That is a serious amount of assumptions you made, no where did I say a deployment takes 45 - 50 hours,
Your the one on about companies requiring people to work from home to support production systems. If it's not 45-50 hours then there is no need to work from home.
I was replying to a user Dinny who said his company had revoked working from home, I was saying that my average work week was 45 to 50 hours but that wouldn't be achievable if I worked in an office, so my trade off for doing long hours was the flexibility of working from home.
I'd say most of our average work weeks are around that and most of us work in offices. I don't see why you need to work from home just because you can't manage your work load either.
That 50 hours billable time excluding any breaks for food etc., I'd say you are grasping for straws if you think most people work that as the norm. As for my work load and what I can and cannot manage, you know nothing about it and again are making loads of assumptions. I seriously wouldnt let you near any system if you just worked on assumptions.
I'll park it there with you bigfella, furnish me with your work etc. and we can chat - I wouldnt make assumptions about your work, but you seem to think you have the whole IT industry covered and can make assumptions abut other folk. Here a wee one to make you feel at home ::)
Quote from: No wides on February 05, 2016, 12:39:41 PM
I'll park it there with you bigfella, furnish me with your work etc. and we can chat - I wouldnt make assumptions about your work, but you seem to think you have the whole IT industry covered and can make assumptions abut other folk. Here a wee one to make you feel at home ::)
You have your knickers in a twist about something so park away. I hope this is n't part of your 50 hours you bill.
What's the general thoughts on applying for a 'lead' position with a different organisation? If you have experience in covering all the tasks should you not let the term lead put you off??
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 05, 2016, 01:42:51 PM
What's the general thoughts on applying for a 'lead' position with a different organisation? If you have experience in covering all the tasks should you not let the term lead put you off??
Go for it.
Enda Kenny went for the Lead job at the government and hasn't a notion what he's doing.
You'll be fine.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 05, 2016, 01:42:51 PM
What's the general thoughts on applying for a 'lead' position with a different organisation? If you have experience in covering all the tasks should you not let the term lead put you off??
If you have done the tasks and have experience of line management that you can make relevant then yeah go for it.
Cheers guys. Sure whats the worst that can happen :)
Quote from: NAG1 on February 05, 2016, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 05, 2016, 01:42:51 PM
What's the general thoughts on applying for a 'lead' position with a different organisation? If you have experience in covering all the tasks should you not let the term lead put you off??
If you have done the tasks and have experience of line management that you can make relevant then yeah go for it.
Absolutely. Go for it. Sure that's how you get advancement sometimes, by moving jobs. You can't always rely on promotions. If you meet all the technical requirements, and feel like you are capable, then go for it. In the interview, emphasise your experience and that you feel you are ready for new responsibility and a new challenge.
Cheers AZ!
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 05, 2016, 03:32:42 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 05, 2016, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 05, 2016, 01:42:51 PM
What's the general thoughts on applying for a 'lead' position with a different organisation? If you have experience in covering all the tasks should you not let the term lead put you off??
If you have done the tasks and have experience of line management that you can make relevant then yeah go for it.
Absolutely. Go for it. Sure that's how you get advancement sometimes, by moving jobs. You can't always rely on promotions. If you meet all the technical requirements, and feel like you are capable, then go for it. In the interview, emphasise your experience and that you feel you are ready for new responsibility and a new challenge.
It can be getting the interview in the first place that can be the problem in this sort of process, where you are stepping up into a role. Unfortunately in most occasions employers want the finished article and will, a lot of the time, go for someone who has the experience but maybe not the fit, over someone who looks capable and would be a good fit for the role. So always make sure and embellish any aspects of your current role that might suggest the ability to step up. There's a fair chance the company will have internal people at the same level as you and unless you can show you can deliver more than them, then it can be hard to get your nose in the door. If you do have the ability then it should be easier to demonstrate at interview stage but it's so important to get the CV right in this sort of process.
Yeah totally agree. The CV is vital when your trying to get up that ladder a little quicker than normal.