I don't think we have a thread where rules can be discussed and clarified, so here's one now.
I have a couple of rules myself I need clearing up...
- What's the situation regarding extra time? As far as I'm aware, a team down to 13 or 14 players, will have a full team for extra time. Are the players added to the 15 for ET, counted as part of their sub allocation?
Also, teams that have used their allocation of subs in normal time, how many extra subs do they get in ET?
- is a player allowed to fist the ball to himself? I noticed it happened in the Kerry Mayo replay. I didn't think this was allowed.
Good idea for a dedicated thread.
We should start with a read of this:
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2012_Part2.pdf (http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2012_Part2.pdf)
Dunno about the ET and subs but there's no problem with a player fisting the ball to himself as long as it touches the ground before he regains possession. Thats what happened in the Kerry Mayo game when I think it was Crowley punched the ball ahead of himself and picked it up again after it bounced.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 09, 2014, 12:47:26 PM
- What's the situation regarding extra time? As far as I'm aware, a team down to 13 or 14 players, will have a full team for extra time. Are the players added to the 15 for ET, counted as part of their sub allocation?
Also, teams that have used their allocation of subs in normal time, how many extra subs do they get in ET?
2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on
the List submitted to the Referee prior to the
game, except as provided for in (d) below, may
start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15
players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly
indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/
Note may be in single form but shall otherwise
comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of
Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall
be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as
outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time
shall carry over into Extra Time.
Whats the rule for kickouts now that they are all taken from the 13? where do the outfeild players need to be? outside the 21 or outside the D or what? Every referee seems to inforce something different
Outside the 21 (and 13metres from the ball). But the ball must travel a distance of 13metres before it can be gathered by another player (on the defending team).
Where lots of people get confused is when the ball goes diagonally towards the sideline and travels more than 13metres, a player IS allowed to come inside the 21 to collect the ball provided he was outside the 21 when it was kicked.
I think i remember reading on here before that technically, by the letter of the law the goalkeeper could kick the ball to himself (and in theory dribble the length of the field) as long as he didn't pick it up!
Quote from: westbound on September 09, 2014, 02:36:30 PM
Outside the 21 (and 13metres from the ball). But the ball must travel a distance of 13metres before it can be gathered by another player (on the defending team).
Where lots of people get confused is when the ball goes diagonally towards the sideline and travels more than 13metres, a player IS allowed to come inside the 21 to collect the ball provided he was outside the 21 when it was kicked.
I think i remember reading on here before that technically, by the letter of the law the goalkeeper could kick the ball to himself (and in theory dribble the length of the field) as long as he didn't pick it up!
Correct
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 09, 2014, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: westbound on September 09, 2014, 02:36:30 PM
Outside the 21 (and 13metres from the ball). But the ball must travel a distance of 13metres before it can be gathered by another player (on the defending team).
Where lots of people get confused is when the ball goes diagonally towards the sideline and travels more than 13metres, a player IS allowed to come inside the 21 to collect the ball provided he was outside the 21 when it was kicked.
I think i remember reading on here before that technically, by the letter of the law the goalkeeper could kick the ball to himself (and in theory dribble the length of the field) as long as he didn't pick it up!
Correct
Its just that ive seen players standing on the 21 directly in front of the keeper with their arms in the air and referees letting that go (even though they would only be 8m from the ball) whereas some referees insist on all players being outside the 'D' as well.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 09, 2014, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 09, 2014, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: westbound on September 09, 2014, 02:36:30 PM
Outside the 21 (and 13metres from the ball). But the ball must travel a distance of 13metres before it can be gathered by another player (on the defending team).
Where lots of people get confused is when the ball goes diagonally towards the sideline and travels more than 13metres, a player IS allowed to come inside the 21 to collect the ball provided he was outside the 21 when it was kicked.
I think i remember reading on here before that technically, by the letter of the law the goalkeeper could kick the ball to himself (and in theory dribble the length of the field) as long as he didn't pick it up!
Correct
Its just that ive seen players standing on the 21 directly in front of the keeper with their arms in the air and referees letting that go (even though they would only be 8m from the ball) whereas some referees insist on all players being outside the 'D' as well.
Good point! Why is the D there in the first place? Was it brought in as an exclusion zone for when keepers used to kick the ball from the 21?
Anyway if it's there we may as well use it and have lads stand outside it for kickouts!!!
Penalties in Hurling and Football, and Kickouts I thought.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2014, 04:22:45 PM
Penalties in Hurling and Football, and Kickouts I thought.
Correct, exclusion zone was brought in for penalties (and kickouts when they were on the 21).
In response to blewuporstuffed, I guess some referees use some discretion and don't bother holding the game up to move players back a few yards if they aren't going to interfere with the keeper's kickout. If they blocked the ball down I presume the attacker would be penalised.
I'm not saying thats correct as per the rule book, but I'd say that what some refs do.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 09, 2014, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 09, 2014, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: westbound on September 09, 2014, 02:36:30 PM
Outside the 21 (and 13metres from the ball). But the ball must travel a distance of 13metres before it can be gathered by another player (on the defending team).
Where lots of people get confused is when the ball goes diagonally towards the sideline and travels more than 13metres, a player IS allowed to come inside the 21 to collect the ball provided he was outside the 21 when it was kicked.
I think i remember reading on here before that technically, by the letter of the law the goalkeeper could kick the ball to himself (and in theory dribble the length of the field) as long as he didn't pick it up!
Correct
Its just that ive seen players standing on the 21 directly in front of the keeper with their arms in the air and referees letting that go (even though they would only be 8m from the ball) whereas some referees insist on all players being outside the 'D' as well.
I know its slightly different, but I was once told by an intercouty referee (hurling) when I questioned him on why he gave a free against one of our lads for blocking a sideline cut was that he wasn't the required distance away from the ball. I pointed out he was standing directly beside his marker and he responded that if he'd have blocked it instead it would have been our free...
Not sure if he was using poetic license or not..
Rule 1.2 Exception II
Any Player who falls or is knocked to the ground while in possession of the ball may fist or palm the ball away on the ground and may score by doing so.
I can safely say I've seen this hundreds of times, and blown up every single time.
The paddy Russell rule.
Quote from: bailestil on September 09, 2014, 04:44:24 PM
Rule 1.2 Exception II
Any Player who falls or is knocked to the ground while in possession of the ball may fist or palm the ball away on the ground and may score by doing so.
I can safely say I've seen this hundreds of times, and blown up every single time.
In fairness, I've seen a few refs allow this (Correctly) - but the abuse they've gotten from the players/mentors & supporters who obviously didn't know this rule has been ridiculous!
Has a referee ever ordered a penalty to be retaken for a goalkeeper advancing off his line?
If a player attempts a fist pass to his goalie but it goes over his head straight into the net, is it a 45 or a goal?
Slightly off topic but still in line with the theme.
Cormac Reiley had an absolute stinker in semi final replay in a lot of peoples opinion. The usually outspoken godfather of officialdom mr Pat ' i robbed mayo in 96' McNeaney has not commented on the performance . Is there a reason for this , is he obliged to comment on such a controversial performance ?
Quote from: johnneycool on September 09, 2014, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 09, 2014, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 09, 2014, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: westbound on September 09, 2014, 02:36:30 PM
Outside the 21 (and 13metres from the ball). But the ball must travel a distance of 13metres before it can be gathered by another player (on the defending team).
Where lots of people get confused is when the ball goes diagonally towards the sideline and travels more than 13metres, a player IS allowed to come inside the 21 to collect the ball provided he was outside the 21 when it was kicked.
I think i remember reading on here before that technically, by the letter of the law the goalkeeper could kick the ball to himself (and in theory dribble the length of the field) as long as he didn't pick it up!
Correct
Its just that ive seen players standing on the 21 directly in front of the keeper with their arms in the air and referees letting that go (even though they would only be 8m from the ball) whereas some referees insist on all players being outside the 'D' as well.
I know its slightly different, but I was once told by an intercouty referee (hurling) when I questioned him on why he gave a free against one of our lads for blocking a sideline cut was that he wasn't the required distance away from the ball. I pointed out he was standing directly beside his marker and he responded that if he'd have blocked it instead it would have been our free...
Not sure if he was using poetic license or not..
Both players need to be back the required distance, the player who's not back the proper distance and 'fouls' the ball will be penalised against. Has been in a while in fairness, it used to be a hop ball back in the day? Anyways I make sure the feckers are right back and warn them accordingly. The amount of times I've heard he's too close ref!!! Feck off stop annoying me lol
Quote from: blanketattack on September 10, 2014, 02:48:15 PM
If a player attempts a fist pass to his goalie but it goes over his head straight into the net, is it a 45 or a goal?
3.4 If a defending player plays the ball through his
own scoring space in any manner, this shall
count as a score.
Hope you're not a Ref blanket :o
Quote from: larryin89 on September 10, 2014, 02:57:24 PM
Slightly off topic but still in line with the theme.
Cormac Reiley had an absolute stinker in semi final replay in a lot of peoples opinion. The usually outspoken godfather of officialdom mr Pat ' i robbed mayo in 96' McNeaney has not commented on the performance . Is there a reason for this , is he obliged to comment on such a controversial performance ?
Silence is golden. It's all about getting past the week after. Dublin losing to Donegal helped defer attention. The pitch intruder also deferred attention. Pat will keep his gob shut. Sure he can't say he had a stinker? Can he? The dogs on the street know we were shafted! Reilly had his agenda (what ever it was) and he seen it through. Kerry seen an opening and they like any grateful receiver said thank you very much. We'd have done the same given half a chance. Churning out the same lines about the Ref being grand, we had more hunger and We played better!
Quote from: Rossfan on September 10, 2014, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 10, 2014, 02:48:15 PM
If a player attempts a fist pass to his goalie but it goes over his head straight into the net, is it a 45 or a goal?
3.4 If a defending player plays the ball through his
own scoring space in any manner, this shall
count as a score.
Hope you're not a Ref blanket :o
No, for some reason I thought it was like a throw-in in soccer where if it goes into your own net it's a corner.
Can anyone clarify the advantage rule?
Last week we had a very dubious application of the advantage rule (and it benefited us)
A long ball was played into one of our forwards, who was quite clearly being fouled, but the ball broke to our corner forward who was through one on one with the keeper, the ref quite rightly put his arm in the air for an advantage, our player took a shot at goal and the keeper got down and made a great save.The referee then brought play back for the original foul.
Surely this isnt the way the advantage rule was intended to be applied ???
I would have thought as soon as the ball fell to our other forward in an advantageous position, that was the end of the advantage, regardless of whether he scored or not?
Advantage Rule:
When a foul is committed the referee may allow the play to continue if he considers it to be to the advantage of the offended team. He shall signal that advantage by raising an arm upright. If he deems no advantage to have occurred, he may subsequently award a free for that foul from where it occurred*. The referee shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining his arm in the upright position for up to five seconds after the initial foul or for less time if it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. He shall apply any relevant disciplinary action."
It's at the referee's discretion as to what he considers an advantage to be.
For me, if a foul is committed which is in a scoreable position then if the attacking team doesn't score within the 5 seconds (regardless of whether they have had a shot at goal or not) then the play should be called back for the free.
IMO, a scoreable free is more advantageous than a shot being saved by the goalkeeper. So therefore I would say the referee was correct in the example given by blewuporstuffed.
It's interesting that the wording is such that the referee may end the advantage period inside the five seconds if an advantage has not occurred, but may not end it within the five seconds if an advantage has occurred.
So the referee must wait for five seconds to deem that an advantage has accrued but can deem that an advantage has not accrued in, say, 2 seconds.
That seems to mean that he can't consider it an advantage if, for instance, the team of the fouled player gets possession from the foul and end the advantage period. He must wait five seconds. In theory, the attacking team could have two shots back off the post and a great save from the keeper in that time and still get a free.
It also means that if there's a subsequent foul within the five seconds, he can't start a new advantage, but must stop for the original foul.
There would need to be certainty of consistency between refs, but it had occurred to me that in an attackng position where a ref has signalled advantage, you should shoot for goal, no matter the angle, distance, etc, as the point would be secure from the free if you miss anyway. Refs dont like anyone being too smart though, so no doubt you'd lose your free no matter the precedents.
Quote from: haranguerer on September 11, 2014, 10:32:49 AM
There would need to be certainty of consistency between refs, but it had occurred to me that in an attackng position where a ref has signalled advantage, you should shoot for goal, no matter the angle, distance, etc, as the point would be secure from the free if you miss anyway. Refs dont like anyone being too smart though, so no doubt you'd lose your free no matter the precedents.
I laughed at that one and can imagine a cocky wee corner forward with the coloured boots on trying a ridiculous shot over his shoulder with the weak foot thinking in his head - well I am guaranteed a free anyway!! Ref thinks knows rightly what he is at and plays on coz he was being too smart ;)
Quote from: Hardy on September 11, 2014, 10:24:43 AM
It's interesting that the wording is such that the referee may end the advantage period inside the five seconds if an advantage has not occurred, but may not end it within the five seconds if an advantage has occurred.
So the referee must wait for five seconds to deem that an advantage has accrued but can deem that an advantage has not accrued in, say, 2 seconds.
That seems to mean that he can't consider it an advantage if, for instance, the team of the fouled player gets possession from the foul and end the advantage period. He must wait five seconds. In theory, the attacking team could have two shots back off the post and a great save from the keeper in that time and still get a free.
It also means that if there's a subsequent foul within the five seconds, he can't start a new advantage, but must stop for the original foul.
Hardy, I would agree with all you have said except the very last part. If there is a subsequent foul in a better position the ref shouldn't stop play for the
original foul. A free from the position of the latter foul is the advantage accrued.
I would also argue that the ref could give a new advantage and start another 5 seconds but we might need Pat McEnaney to clarify for us!!! ;)
Quote from: haranguerer on September 11, 2014, 10:32:49 AM
There would need to be certainty of consistency between refs, but it had occurred to me that in an attackng position where a ref has signalled advantage, you should shoot for goal, no matter the angle, distance, etc, as the point would be secure from the free if you miss anyway. Refs dont like anyone being too smart though, so no doubt you'd lose your free no matter the precedents.
In all likelihood the ref is going to be behind you, so seeing an advantage signal could be difficult unless the refs now shout out that they're playing an advantage ala the rugby lads.
Not sure the ref I saw on friday night is totally au fait with the advantage rule.
Defender pursuing attacker when a second attacker body checked the defender leaving the first attacker with a clear run on goal which he took full advantage of. Referee awarded the goal then jogged back up the pitch and black carded the body checker. Still trying to get my head round that one.
Also in a recent game same team awarded two fourteen yard frees for a push and a drag back in the large square. The referee's logic for these was that neither foul was 'Aggressive'. :o
Quote from: westbound on September 11, 2014, 11:06:12 AM
Quote from: Hardy on September 11, 2014, 10:24:43 AM
It's interesting that the wording is such that the referee may end the advantage period inside the five seconds if an advantage has not occurred, but may not end it within the five seconds if an advantage has occurred.
So the referee must wait for five seconds to deem that an advantage has accrued but can deem that an advantage has not accrued in, say, 2 seconds.
That seems to mean that he can't consider it an advantage if, for instance, the team of the fouled player gets possession from the foul and end the advantage period. He must wait five seconds. In theory, the attacking team could have two shots back off the post and a great save from the keeper in that time and still get a free.
It also means that if there's a subsequent foul within the five seconds, he can't start a new advantage, but must stop for the original foul.
Hardy, I would agree with all you have said except the very last part. If there is a subsequent foul in a better position the ref shouldn't stop play for the original foul. A free from the position of the latter foul is the advantage accrued.
That makes sense.
Quote from: westbound on September 11, 2014, 09:54:05 AM
Advantage Rule:
When a foul is committed the referee may allow the play to continue if he considers it to be to the advantage of the offended team. He shall signal that advantage by raising an arm upright. If he deems no advantage to have occurred, he may subsequently award a free for that foul from where it occurred*. The referee shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining his arm in the upright position for up to five seconds after the initial foul or for less time if it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. He shall apply any relevant disciplinary action."
It's at the referee's discretion as to what he considers an advantage to be.
For me, if a foul is committed which is in a scoreable position then if the attacking team doesn't score within the 5 seconds (regardless of whether they have had a shot at goal or not) then the play should be called back for the free.
IMO, a scoreable free is more advantageous than a shot being saved by the goalkeeper. So therefore I would say the referee was correct in the example given by blewuporstuffed.
Yes but is an attacker being through one on one with the keeper not more advantageous than a free kick?Therefore the advantage has occurred?if he then chooses to take his point or go for goal (no matter what the out come) then that is up to the attacker.
As I said, we came out the right side of this one, but it just didnt seem right to me.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 11, 2014, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: westbound on September 11, 2014, 09:54:05 AM
Advantage Rule:
When a foul is committed the referee may allow the play to continue if he considers it to be to the advantage of the offended team. He shall signal that advantage by raising an arm upright. If he deems no advantage to have occurred, he may subsequently award a free for that foul from where it occurred*. The referee shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining his arm in the upright position for up to five seconds after the initial foul or for less time if it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. He shall apply any relevant disciplinary action."
It's at the referee's discretion as to what he considers an advantage to be.
For me, if a foul is committed which is in a scoreable position then if the attacking team doesn't score within the 5 seconds (regardless of whether they have had a shot at goal or not) then the play should be called back for the free.
IMO, a scoreable free is more advantageous than a shot being saved by the goalkeeper. So therefore I would say the referee was correct in the example given by blewuporstuffed.
Yes but is an attacker being through one on one with the keeper not more advantageous than a free kick?Therefore the advantage has occurred?if he then chooses to take his point or go for goal (no matter what the out come) then that is up to the attacker.
As I said, we came out the right side of this one, but it just didnt seem right to me.
That's a valid argument blewuporstuffed. And the fact that it comes down to the referee's discretion always leads to inconsistencies.
However, I think that the attacker being through one on one is only an advantage if he's able to score it!!!! :P
The 5 second part of the rule means that the referee has time to see if a REAL advantage has accrued. I should point out that I like this - it's similar to rugby, but with a more certain time limit!
The problem with the old advantage rule was that the decision had to be made pretty much instantaneously. So in your example above you'd have got the free in and most supporters (obviously not you!) would have blinded the ref for not giving an advantage and said he'd have scored a goal if the ref didn't blow the whistle! (or alternatively blinded him not not giving the free in!)
Just as an aside, it's amusing that it seems the majority of spectators don't have a clue about the advantage rule, as evidenced by the howling and booing every time an advantage fails to accrue and the ref calls play back for the free. People either didn't see the the original foul or have assumed he got away with and haven't noticed the referee's raised hand or, if they have, presume he's waving to his mates. Then when he blows apparently for no reason, they go crazy.
What's not amusing, but annoying, is when paid commentators and overpaid "pundits" react the same way.
That's not to mention the bemusement when the umpires make the "Hawkeye" signal and the same clowns interpret it as the wide signal and then say Hawkeye overruled the umpire, whereupon the producer orders a close-up of the properly performing umpire in order to shame him before the nation.
To be fair there are a few refs I know of here in Sligo that ruin around with an arm up in the air all the time, long bofre any advantage rule was thought of!!!
Fascists!!!
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 11, 2014, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: westbound on September 11, 2014, 09:54:05 AM
Advantage Rule:
When a foul is committed the referee may allow the play to continue if he considers it to be to the advantage of the offended team. He shall signal that advantage by raising an arm upright. If he deems no advantage to have occurred, he may subsequently award a free for that foul from where it occurred*. The referee shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining his arm in the upright position for up to five seconds after the initial foul or for less time if it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. He shall apply any relevant disciplinary action."
It's at the referee's discretion as to what he considers an advantage to be.
For me, if a foul is committed which is in a scoreable position then if the attacking team doesn't score within the 5 seconds (regardless of whether they have had a shot at goal or not) then the play should be called back for the free.
IMO, a scoreable free is more advantageous than a shot being saved by the goalkeeper. So therefore I would say the referee was correct in the example given by blewuporstuffed.
Yes but is an attacker being through one on one with the keeper not more advantageous than a free kick?Therefore the advantage has occurred?if he then chooses to take his point or go for goal (no matter what the out come) then that is up to the attacker.
As I said, we came out the right side of this one, but it just didnt seem right to me.
I disagree. Advantage is if you are in a better position because of continuing to play than you would have been if you had stopped for the original free.
Say a team gets a free inside their own 21, the ball is played quickly forward and the attacker gets a shot away within 5 seconds but misses. The free should not be called back, because even though he missed, the ball is now at the other end of the pitch which is about all you could really have hoped for from a deep defensive free.
But say instead an attacker is fouled on the 13m line dead centre. He slips the ball away as he is going down and his team mate blasts a shot wide. Clearly it is very much less advantageous to have a shot wide than a near certain 13m free scored. In this instance I would argue that anything less than a point scored during advantage play is not advantageous over the benefit of a simple free. The play should be called back for the free.
What is an advantage anyway? I say - Did the offended team gain a better position as a result of the advantage than they would have got from the free? And if you are fouled 13m out then yes, I do think the advantage rule effectively means that you are being allowed two shots at the sticks. Having a one-on-one with the keeper is in itself not an advantage, that's just what happened during advantage. Only after the advantage is at an end can a ref make a decision if the team would have been better off with the free and if it is the difference between one point scored and three points missed then it is definitely one point scored puts you in a better position!
Quote from: PAULD123 on September 11, 2014, 01:57:47 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 11, 2014, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: westbound on September 11, 2014, 09:54:05 AM
Advantage Rule:
When a foul is committed the referee may allow the play to continue if he considers it to be to the advantage of the offended team. He shall signal that advantage by raising an arm upright. If he deems no advantage to have occurred, he may subsequently award a free for that foul from where it occurred*. The referee shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining his arm in the upright position for up to five seconds after the initial foul or for less time if it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. He shall apply any relevant disciplinary action."
It's at the referee's discretion as to what he considers an advantage to be.
For me, if a foul is committed which is in a scoreable position then if the attacking team doesn't score within the 5 seconds (regardless of whether they have had a shot at goal or not) then the play should be called back for the free.
IMO, a scoreable free is more advantageous than a shot being saved by the goalkeeper. So therefore I would say the referee was correct in the example given by blewuporstuffed.
Yes but is an attacker being through one on one with the keeper not more advantageous than a free kick?Therefore the advantage has occurred?if he then chooses to take his point or go for goal (no matter what the out come) then that is up to the attacker.
As I said, we came out the right side of this one, but it just didnt seem right to me.
I disagree. Advantage is if you are in a better position because of continuing to play than you would have been if you had stopped for the original free.
Say a team gets a free inside their own 21, the ball is played quickly forward and the attacker gets a shot away within 5 seconds but misses. The free should not be called back, because even though he missed, the ball is now at the other end of the pitch which is about all you could really have hoped for from a deep defensive free.
But say instead an attacker is fouled on the 13m line dead centre. He slips the ball away as he is going down and his team mate blasts a shot wide. Clearly it is very much less advantageous to have a shot wide than a near certain 13m free scored. In this instance I would argue that anything less than a point scored during advantage play is not advantageous over the benefit of a simple free. The play should be called back for the free.
What is an advantage anyway? I say - Did the offended team gain a better position as a result of the advantage than they would have got from the free? And if you are fouled 13m out then yes, I do think the advantage rule effectively means that you are being allowed two shots at the sticks. Having a one-on-one with the keeper is in itself not an advantage, that's just what happened during advantage. Only after the advantage is at an end can a ref make a decision if the team would have been better off with the free and if it is the difference between one point scored and three points missed then it is definitely one point scored puts you in a better position!
This is exactly what I was trying to say! - You just explained it better! :)
Quote from: johnneycool on September 11, 2014, 11:13:34 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on September 11, 2014, 10:32:49 AM
There would need to be certainty of consistency between refs, but it had occurred to me that in an attackng position where a ref has signalled advantage, you should shoot for goal, no matter the angle, distance, etc, as the point would be secure from the free if you miss anyway. Refs dont like anyone being too smart though, so no doubt you'd lose your free no matter the precedents.
In all likelihood the ref is going to be behind you, so seeing an advantage signal could be difficult unless the refs now shout out that they're playing an advantage ala the rugby lads.
In all likelihood if you see a certain foul and are first onto the ball without hearing a whistle, it would be safe to assume there is advantage being played
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on September 10, 2014, 12:42:03 PM
Has a referee ever ordered a penalty to be retaken for a goalkeeper advancing off his line?
Yes
Are players meant to be outside the semicircle on the 21 when a kickout is being taken?
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 21, 2014, 03:42:47 PM
Are players meant to be outside the semicircle on the 21 when a kickout is being taken?
Anyone??
No, Mac. The semi circle doesn't come into it. They must be outside the 20m line and more than 13m from the ball.
Cheers hardy
Always thought that was the purpose of that semicircle. If not, then is there a reason for it?
Defenders have to be outside it for kickouts i think??
Was wondering the same myself with donaghy and the goal.
It's just for penalties - all players but goalie and kicker have to be outside it.
Not sure if the 'D' has been modified but it was incorrectly measuring the distance defenders had to be away from the ball at a penalty ( since the penalty spot has been moved forward from the 14 yard line/13 m line) but I don't think the GAA has redrawn the correct distance and new 'D' - they may have , I just haven't heard.
Donaghy was not 13m from the ball for durcans kickout.
The D defines the distance but he didn't have to be outside it. He however wasn't the requisite distance.
But durcan made a schoolboy error and shouldn't have kicked it!
Certainly not with Donaghy lurking so closely!!
Fair play for Donaghy being so alert though
He was at the same against mayo and we almost got caught only that the ref gave us an extremely soft free
Keane kicked the ball away when Durcan went to take a kickout. He did similar in Limerick, throwing the spare balls away. Disgusting acts. There has to be a sterner punishment for this sort of behaviour.
Unsurprisingly I didnt hear them mention either on Sunday game either.
Yeah, watching him kick the ball away like that I couldn't help thinking that if I was playing against him and time was almost up, I'd take the red card.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
Keane kicked the ball away when Durcan went to take a kickout. He did similar in Limerick, throwing the spare balls away. Disgusting acts. There has to be a sterner punishment for this sort of behaviour.
Unsurprisingly I didnt hear them mention either on Sunday game either.
That sort of thing is something that should be added to the black card list, however, im not even sure that would be a deterant
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
Keane kicked the ball away when Durcan went to take a kickout. He did similar in Limerick, throwing the spare balls away. Disgusting acts. There has to be a sterner punishment for this sort of behaviour.
Unsurprisingly I didnt hear them mention either on Sunday game either.
Niall Morgan says Stevie O'Neill practices that during Tyrone training sessions.
There are one set of rules for Kerry and then there is the other counties who have to adhere to the ones in the rule book. Pat McAneany had a meeting with Eammon Fitz at the dub v Donegal semi final to explain the Kerry rules and had a meeting with Tomas O Se Aug weekend, both were pic with the Don of refs at croker for their meetings.
Since the ''kerry'' meetings took place the usually outspoken Pat has stayed stum because in no way can he justify Cormac O Reillys display in limerick.
You need to stay on this one Larry.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 23, 2014, 02:30:42 PM
You need to stay on this one Larry.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
+1. Larry, yer like a wee dog let out in a big field. Go gettum
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on September 23, 2014, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
Keane kicked the ball away when Durcan went to take a kickout. He did similar in Limerick, throwing the spare balls away. Disgusting acts. There has to be a sterner punishment for this sort of behaviour.
Unsurprisingly I didnt hear them mention either on Sunday game either.
That sort of thing is something that should be added to the black card list, however, im not even sure that would be a deterant
Ah lads. Is there no room for a bit of comedy in the game?
Why was pat pic with them ? Why has pat not reviewed the Limerick shambles of a refereeing job after such an outcry not only by the ordinary joe like myself but by tsg s Kevin mcstay on tsg?
What did Liam O Neill by '' if mayo know whats good for them , they'll just get on with it''? Whats good for us a low interest rate on a loan perhaps?
Look at Liam O fat face neills talk at the Kerry hotel on sunday night, are ye blinded, he just said '' my black card rule won the day cause the best footballers in Ireland Kerry won the sam maguire'' he said it with fooking gusto . The little fat bollix.
Of course you're laughing at lil old me with my little bitter bursts but if you examine the whole situation , there is surely an element of truth in what im saying
Quote from: larryin89 on September 23, 2014, 03:35:53 PM
Why was pat pic with them ? Why has pat not reviewed the Limerick shambles of a refereeing job after such an outcry not only by the ordinary joe like myself but by tsg s Kevin mcstay on tsg?
What did Liam O Neill by '' if mayo know whats good for them , they'll just get on with it''? Whats good for us a low interest rate on a loan perhaps?
Look at Liam O fat face neills talk at the Kerry hotel on sunday night, are ye blinded, he just said '' my black card rule won the day cause the best footballers in Ireland Kerry won the sam maguire'' he said it with fooking gusto . The little fat bollix.
Of course you're laughing at lil old me with my little bitter bursts but if you examine the whole situation , there is surely an element of truth in what im saying
Aye that was a bit cringe alright, sour faced auld bollox is always on message no matter the occasion, only one black card dished out from the quarter finals on, not one bit of cynical play thereafter, yeah it worked a treat if you're one of the lesser lights.
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
Keane kicked the ball away when Durcan went to take a kickout. He did similar in Limerick, throwing the spare balls away. Disgusting acts. There has to be a sterner punishment for this sort of behaviour.
Unsurprisingly I didnt hear them mention either on Sunday game either.
thought it was a despicable act by keane
was not surprised that no mention was made of it on tv
wasn't surprised at no mention by pat about the reilly shambles in limerick either
Quote from: naka on September 23, 2014, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
Keane kicked the ball away when Durcan went to take a kickout. He did similar in Limerick, throwing the spare balls away. Disgusting acts. There has to be a sterner punishment for this sort of behaviour.
Unsurprisingly I didnt hear them mention either on Sunday game either.
thought it was a despicable act by keane
was not surprised that no mention was made of it on tv
wasn't surprised at no mention by pat about the reilly shambles in limerick either
All you'll hear from Spillane is we have the most AIs, we're team of the decade, aren't we a great county, everyone else plays puke football but not us. He's like a child. Why he's still in the media I'll never know.
What's the rule on a player jumping into a tackle? Both feet were off the ground and he just jumped into a defender. I think it was Young or Keane did it. It resulted in a handy free for Keane. Might have been just before the goal.
It should have been a free out for charging should it not?
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 06:28:43 PM
What's the rule on a player jumping into a tackle? Both feet were off the ground and he just jumped into a defender. I think it was Young or Keane did it. It resulted in a handy free for Keane. Might have been just before the goal.
It should have been a free out for charging should it not?
Yip. In my book that's a free out.
Going back to the advantage rule if I may.
For me it's a nonsense how some referees are currently interpreting it. Getting a shot at goal from a better position than a free is by definition an advantage. If it goes wide or is saved that's neither here nor there. The advantage was the shot. If an attacker doesn't want that advantage then fine just stop and take the free.
The idea of waiting to see the outcome of a shot is ludicrous. The rule isn't there to give a team two bites at the cherry. It's there for stopping defending teams benefitting when they cheat and break the rules.
If the attacking team wins a free and takes immediately and miss it do they get another chance at the free?
Also the idea of waiting the full 5 seconds to see if a score has occurred is rubbish what about a high hanging shot from distance taken 5 seconds after the foul. Is the ref supposed to guess where it's going to land? Ie given he's only allowed 5 seconds does he blow for the free in case it falls into the keepers hands or does he wait to see if it makes it over.
As I say it's usualy perfectly obvious which is more advantageous the shot or the free. A free shot at goal from a better angle or shorter distance is more advantageous than a long range. A shot from a tight angle or with multiple defenders around is not. Similarly a shot a goal is more advantageous than a 13m free.
Quote from: tyroneman on September 23, 2014, 08:42:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 06:28:43 PM
What's the rule on a player jumping into a tackle? Both feet were off the ground and he just jumped into a defender. I think it was Young or Keane did it. It resulted in a handy free for Keane. Might have been just before the goal.
It should have been a free out for charging should it not?
Yip. In my book that's a free out.
yeah i think it should be a free out, i dont know how the defenders in that situation could have done anything differently to avoid 'fouling' him, bar standing out of the way
Quote from: David McKeown on September 24, 2014, 01:17:20 AM
Going back to the advantage rule if I may.
For me it's a nonsense how some referees are currently interpreting it. Getting a shot at goal from a better position than a free is by definition an advantage. If it goes wide or is saved that's neither here nor there. The advantage was the shot. If an attacker doesn't want that advantage then fine just stop and take the free.
The idea of waiting to see the outcome of a shot is ludicrous. The rule isn't there to give a team two bites at the cherry. It's there for stopping defending teams benefitting when they cheat and break the rules.
If the attacking team wins a free and takes immediately and miss it do they get another chance at the free?
Also the idea of waiting the full 5 seconds to see if a score has occurred is rubbish what about a high hanging shot from distance taken 5 seconds after the foul. Is the ref supposed to guess where it's going to land? Ie given he's only allowed 5 seconds does he blow for the free in case it falls into the keepers hands or does he wait to see if it makes it over.
As I say it's usualy perfectly obvious which is more advantageous the shot or the free. A free shot at goal from a better angle or shorter distance is more advantageous than a long range. A shot from a tight angle or with multiple defenders around is not. Similarly a shot a goal is more advantageous than a 13m free.
This was exactly my point aswell., and in the example i gave, we were the benefactors of it, but if just didnt seem right to me.
IMO 9/10 when its in a scoring position , the referee should just blow the free, the only time he should allow the advantage is when the player gets away and is through on goal or has a very obviously easier shot at goal.
The advantage rule should only really be used more further out the feild, where the referee can let the play go on a bit more rather than stopping for a free. This is an advantage to teh time on the ball as it doesnt allow the defending team to purposely slow the game down by fouling.
Quote from: David McKeown on September 24, 2014, 01:17:20 AM
Going back to the advantage rule if I may.
For me it's a nonsense how some referees are currently interpreting it. Getting a shot at goal from a better position than a free is by definition an advantage. If it goes wide or is saved that's neither here nor there. The advantage was the shot. If an attacker doesn't want that advantage then fine just stop and take the free.
The idea of waiting to see the outcome of a shot is ludicrous. The rule isn't there to give a team two bites at the cherry. It's there for stopping defending teams benefitting when they cheat and break the rules.
If the attacking team wins a free and takes immediately and miss it do they get another chance at the free?
Also the idea of waiting the full 5 seconds to see if a score has occurred is rubbish what about a high hanging shot from distance taken 5 seconds after the foul. Is the ref supposed to guess where it's going to land? Ie given he's only allowed 5 seconds does he blow for the free in case it falls into the keepers hands or does he wait to see if it makes it over.
As I say it's usualy perfectly obvious which is more advantageous the shot or the free. A free shot at goal from a better angle or shorter distance is more advantageous than a long range. A shot from a tight angle or with multiple defenders around is not. Similarly a shot a goal is more advantageous than a 13m free.
I would disagree with this. A point (presumably guaranteed from the 13m free) is better for the attacking team than a wide or a save (presuming the shot at goal was not scored).
Also, even under the old advantage rule, if the player got a shot at goal away as he was being fouled; if it went in the ref would allow the goal and if it didn't the ref would give the free in. The difference being that under the old rule the ref had to make the decision instantaneously whereas now he has 5 seconds to decide.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I like the way the refs are applying the advantage rule. It's very much like the advantage rule in rugby except that there is a definite length of time the advantage can be played. It benefits the attacking team and surely that's the whole purpose, i.e to punish the team who fouls!
Quote from: David McKeown on September 24, 2014, 01:17:20 AM
Going back to the advantage rule if I may.
For me it's a nonsense how some referees are currently interpreting it. Getting a shot at goal from a better position than a free is by definition an advantage. If it goes wide or is saved that's neither here nor there. The advantage was the shot. If an attacker doesn't want that advantage then fine just stop and take the free.
The idea of waiting to see the outcome of a shot is ludicrous. The rule isn't there to give a team two bites at the cherry. It's there for stopping defending teams benefitting when they cheat and break the rules.
If the attacking team wins a free and takes immediately and miss it do they get another chance at the free?
Also the idea of waiting the full 5 seconds to see if a score has occurred is rubbish what about a high hanging shot from distance taken 5 seconds after the foul. Is the ref supposed to guess where it's going to land? Ie given he's only allowed 5 seconds does he blow for the free in case it falls into the keepers hands or does he wait to see if it makes it over.
As I say it's usualy perfectly obvious which is more advantageous the shot or the free. A free shot at goal from a better angle or shorter distance is more advantageous than a long range. A shot from a tight angle or with multiple defenders around is not. Similarly a shot a goal is more advantageous than a 13m free.
I disagree with you David. I agree with Westbound. The advantage is there to make sure a team is no worse off by getting a free or playing on. If you have a central 13m free then you are virtually guaranteed a point. The only thing more advantageous is an actual point (or goal). Having a shot at goal saved is less advantageous to the team than having a point. Therefore in final analysis no advantage occurred. So the free should be called back because after the snap shot is saved, as it is then clear it would have been better to have awarded the original free.
But think about it. An attacker is running clean-through on goal. He is fouled. What has happened is the defender is sacrificing a point for a goal chance. Clearly as a minimum the attacker deserves a simple free but he has still been cheated. So the advantage rule allows him to pass to teammate to have that goal chance. But by now it is a much worse goal chance than the clean-through attacker would have had. If you don't call back the free when the goal shot is saved then the cheater still wins. He denied a clear goal chance and the attacking team is told it is to their advantage to have a less good goal chance. That is self-contradictory.
Unless you allow the free to be called back then you are by definition being disadvantageous. If a defender cheats a player out a single shot then I see no problem is saying the advantage is in effect a free less good shot with a guaranteed free kick to come (just like in rugby)
Ok so am I right in thinking that you feel it should always be a free unless the ball has been put into the net or over the bar within 5 seconds so that even if a player is fouled takes 2 seconds to escape the foul another 3 seconds to advance towards goal and then shoots the free must come back because when the 5 seconds were up the ball hadn't yet been scored (even had it clearly been going in)? To me thats a nonsense, the advantage is the shot if the attacking team don't want the advantage then simply don't take the shot.
Also the idea of giving a team two bites at the cherry should only encourage more effectively fouling to prevent that second opportunity.
Why is a team awarded two opportunities to score when advantage is played but not when a free is awarded?
The comparison to rugby I don't get either the relative value of a free in GAA v a penalty in rugby is completely different. An average rugby match would have far fewer scoring opportunities than a GAA game so a similar advantage rule should not be applied.
The biggest problem in gaelic football at the minute is the influence that a referee can have over the outcome of a match. I could pick out any given match and probably pull out at least 15 incidences where a referee could justify giving a decision either way yet at the same time he could just as easily justify not giving the same decision. Too many times the rules are applied based on the referees interpretation. Its a worse situation at club level where the referees are under less scrutiny, they are of a poorer standard and worst of all they are biased against one side.
Quote from: David McKeown on September 24, 2014, 04:53:23 PM
Ok so am I right in thinking that you feel it should always be a free unless the ball has been put into the net or over the bar within 5 seconds so that even if a player is fouled takes 2 seconds to escape the foul another 3 seconds to advance towards goal and then shoots the free must come back because when the 5 seconds were up the ball hadn't yet been scored (even had it clearly been going in)? To me thats a nonsense, the advantage is the shot if the attacking team don't want the advantage then simply don't take the shot.
Also the idea of giving a team two bites at the cherry should only encourage more effectively fouling to prevent that second opportunity.
Why is a team awarded two opportunities to score when advantage is played but not when a free is awarded?
The comparison to rugby I don't get either the relative value of a free in GAA v a penalty in rugby is completely different. An average rugby match would have far fewer scoring opportunities than a GAA game so a similar advantage rule should not be applied.
Ok firstly, I certainly do think 5 seconds is way too long. 2-3 seconds is more than enough to decide on advantage. So I think we agree on that one.
I also think you make a good point about scores in rugby being harder to come by, but that doesn't change the fact that a point is always more advantageous than a miss.
If the defender fouls so absolutely that no advantage could ever occur then he will be getting a booking of black card. So fair enough, let them foul to that level if they want, they won't be doing it for long.
As for two opportunities - It is because they have been cheated out of a really good opportunity. If a defender wants to cheat a fella then he should be punished. Allowing only a less good chance is effectively rewarding the cheater. In the advantage play the attacking team should definitely be allowed a crack at the maximum and if that doesn't come off then be allowed to come back fro a crack at the minimum which is the minimum you desire for being hauled down 13m out.
It would be better and simpler to say that any free within 21m is always called back if no score is made in the following 2 seconds. Any free outside 21m depends solely on the chance to get a good possession/pass/shot away.
Quote from: naka on September 23, 2014, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
Keane kicked the ball away when Durcan went to take a kickout. He did similar in Limerick, throwing the spare balls away. Disgusting acts. There has to be a sterner punishment for this sort of behaviour.
Unsurprisingly I didnt hear them mention either on Sunday game either.
thought it was a despicable act by keane
was not surprised that no mention was made of it on tv
wasn't surprised at no mention by pat about the reilly shambles in limerick either
It was on a par with Cavanagh pulling down McManus last year and yet it never got mentioned once by any of the pundits in the aftermath. He deserved a good thump but Durcan was still reeling from his own mistake earlier in the match. It's the hypocrisy that is baffling. I don't have much time for Cavanagh but if he had done what Keane done there would have been an outcry. Instead we are constantly fed a diet of garbage that the best footballers playing football in its purest form are Kerry footballers. Rubbish if you ask me.
Quote from: yellowcard on September 24, 2014, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: naka on September 23, 2014, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 23, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
Keane kicked the ball away when Durcan went to take a kickout. He did similar in Limerick, throwing the spare balls away. Disgusting acts. There has to be a sterner punishment for this sort of behaviour.
Unsurprisingly I didnt hear them mention either on Sunday game either.
thought it was a despicable act by keane
was not surprised that no mention was made of it on tv
wasn't surprised at no mention by pat about the reilly shambles in limerick either
It was on a par with Cavanagh pulling down McManus last year
Ah come on now.
It was worse than Cavanagh, who just did what he had to do. But I'd call it childish rather than disgusting. A fart sniffing fetish is disgusting.
Decided to go up to Owenbeg this afternoon and watch the Ulster Club games.
Two decisions by the referee puzzled me.
1. Slaughtneil defender was soloing out of defence with the ball. He bounced the ball and then lost control of the ball. He regained control by bouncing the ball one handed like a basketball player would and the referee gave a free against him for a double bounce. Was the referee correct?
2. Cavan Gaels player was tackled well and fisted the ball away. The ball bounced once and the same player regained possession. The referee played on. Was the referee correct ?
No to first one and yes to second question.
Quote from: Zulu on November 09, 2014, 09:08:59 PM
No to first one and yes to second question.
I actually think that the ref was right in the first time as well. The rule about a 'controlling' bounce was implemented a few seasons ago if I recall. The rule is pretty clear and unambiguous
4.6 To bounce the ball more than once
consecutively after catching it.
You have to read the entire rule book
1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be
bounced more than once in succession.
and in the "important terms and definitions" section:
1. BOUNCE For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on
Quote from: brianboru00 on November 10, 2014, 10:20:52 AM
You have to read the entire rule book
1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be
bounced more than once in succession.
and in the "important terms and definitions" section:
1. BOUNCE For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on
Fair enough, I thought I read somewhere that this rule had been abolished
not sure - I thought they had actually included a reference to basketball - but that may have been the clarification :
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/rules/Summary_of_Playing_Rule_changes_2010.pdf
The rule has been there for many years but the 2010 changes was clarifying this to give a clearer definition.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 10, 2014, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: brianboru00 on November 10, 2014, 10:20:52 AM
You have to read the entire rule book
1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be
bounced more than once in succession.
and in the "important terms and definitions" section:
1. BOUNCE For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on
Fair enough, I thought I read somewhere that this rule had been abolished
Always better to read the oul Treoir Oifigiúil
The basketball dribble is a great subvention of the "only one solo" training matches.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2014, 11:24:13 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 10, 2014, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: brianboru00 on November 10, 2014, 10:20:52 AM
You have to read the entire rule book
1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be
bounced more than once in succession.
and in the "important terms and definitions" section:
1. BOUNCE For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on
Fair enough, I thought I read somewhere that this rule had been abolished
Always better to read the oul Treoir Oifigiúil
Is that not self contradictory? If the definition of a bounce includes catching it, how can a ball be bounced more than once in succession?
And since a contradiction logically implies everything, nothing is forbidden in football.
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/130_zpse5f22196.png)
24-week suspension for Donegal dual player after social media comment
Social media
BY CHRIS MCNULTY
IN what is believed to be the first case of its kind in Donegal GAA, a club player has been given a proposed 24-week suspension because of comments posted on social media.
Seán Mac Cumhaills' player David White, who plays football and hurling for the Twin Towns club, has been singled out over a comment following the Donegal SFC quarter-final between Ardara and Naomh Conaill.
In response to a message from the official Donegal GAA account which confirmed that the drawn quarter-final would be replayed that Wednesday night, White is understood to have posted a tweet that was critical of the decision not to play extra-time in the fixture.
The dual star is understood to have posted a similar message on Facebook and County Board chiefs have reacted by handing down the ban. It is likely that the sanction, believed by the relevant parties to be 'extremely excessive' will be appealed.
The decision to serve notice of a lengthy ban for social media comments will flash the alarm sirens around the county with club players' social media activity under scrutiny.
GAA members had been warned by the Donegal County Board in August of this year that they could face disciplinary action over comments made on social media websites.
The secretary of the Donegal Co Board, Aodh Mairtín Ó Fearraigh, also issued an email to club secretaries at that time urging them to make their members aware of the GAA's social media policies.
That letter outlined that all GAA members are encouraged to take part in social media but the Association expects each individual to follow the guidelines on using social media.
"I would ask all clubs to remind their members and players of the implications of referring to the GAA in social media when they do.
"Each member is to adhere to the GAA's Official Guide and Club Constitution, as well as other applicable documents. All GAA members are subject to the GAA Code of Behaviour when online, even when they are not acting on behalf of the Association."
http://donegalnews.com/2014/11/24-week-suspension-for-donegal-dual-player-after-social-media-comment/#sthash.DhRzShsT.mmvPYAuT.dpuf
Quote from: drici on November 18, 2014, 09:55:29 AM
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/130_zpse5f22196.png)
24-week suspension for Donegal dual player after social media comment
Social media
BY CHRIS MCNULTY
IN what is believed to be the first case of its kind in Donegal GAA, a club player has been given a proposed 24-week suspension because of comments posted on social media.
Seán Mac Cumhaills' player David White, who plays football and hurling for the Twin Towns club, has been singled out over a comment following the Donegal SFC quarter-final between Ardara and Naomh Conaill.
In response to a message from the official Donegal GAA account which confirmed that the drawn quarter-final would be replayed that Wednesday night, White is understood to have posted a tweet that was critical of the decision not to play extra-time in the fixture.
The dual star is understood to have posted a similar message on Facebook and County Board chiefs have reacted by handing down the ban. It is likely that the sanction, believed by the relevant parties to be 'extremely excessive' will be appealed.
The decision to serve notice of a lengthy ban for social media comments will flash the alarm sirens around the county with club players' social media activity under scrutiny.
GAA members had been warned by the Donegal County Board in August of this year that they could face disciplinary action over comments made on social media websites.
The secretary of the Donegal Co Board, Aodh Mairtín Ó Fearraigh, also issued an email to club secretaries at that time urging them to make their members aware of the GAA's social media policies.
That letter outlined that all GAA members are encouraged to take part in social media but the Association expects each individual to follow the guidelines on using social media.
"I would ask all clubs to remind their members and players of the implications of referring to the GAA in social media when they do.
"Each member is to adhere to the GAA's Official Guide and Club Constitution, as well as other applicable documents. All GAA members are subject to the GAA Code of Behaviour when online, even when they are not acting on behalf of the Association."
http://donegalnews.com/2014/11/24-week-suspension-for-donegal-dual-player-after-social-media-comment/#sthash.DhRzShsT.mmvPYAuT.dpuf
Slippery slope. Another stick to beat themselves with.
A couple of rule related questions.
1. A forward is behind the goal line, in the net essentially. A long ball is kicked in (from play) and he moves out in front of the goalie, flicking the ball to the net. Goal or no goal?
2. Same situation but the goalie punches the attacker while he is still behind the goal line. What does the ref give (besides a red card)?
1) Technically, if a player leaves the field of play he cannot reenter without permission from the referee. Free out.
2) Assuming the referee stops play to deal with the incident, play restarts with a free to the team in possession from which they cannot score
If a player remonstrates with a linesman over a lineball decision, does he get a yellow card?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 18, 2014, 08:41:47 PM
If a player remonstrates with a linesman over a lineball decision, does he get a yellow card?
Yes.
But if he is from Donegal and does it on Twitter he gets a 24 weeks ban.
Anyone know what is the length of term a club chairman can stay in the seat
5 years for all position I think.
In the game in Castlebar on Sunday, the Mayo crowd went mad when the Donegal back collected a kickout inside his own 21. Personally, I thought it was ok because he was outside the 21 when the ball was kicked and it's ok to move inside to collect.
On Mad West on the way home though, they said that the rule had been changed from the 21 to the 14 - can anyone confirm this?
We played a game last year, and the ref was specific. You have to be outside 13 metres from the kick out when it is taken, but you could run into collect it. (Not like soccer where you have to touch it outside the box). So a kick out from the 13 metre line, factoring in the exclusion 'D' is basically outside the 20 metre line and the D.
Here's the rule
2.7 (a) When the ball is played over the endline by
the Team attacking that end, or after a score
is made, play is restarted by a kick-out off the
ground from the 13m line and within the large
rectangle.
If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, he
shall stay in the small rectangle, and all other
players, except the player taking the kick-out,
shall be outside the 20m line and 13m from
the ball, until it has been kicked.
The player taking a kick-out may kick the
ball more than once before any other player
touches it but may not take the ball into his
hands.
The ball shall travel 13m before being played
by another player of the defending team.
So therefore you could technically kick the ball 13 metres sideways (which is what our goalie did in that game) and as long as the defender was outside the 20 metre line at the time the ball was kicked, he could run in and get it.
Cheers AZ
Can a player take a sideline kick from the ground if he wishes?
was just reading there on gaa.ie that:
'The ball used in Gaelic Football is round, slightly smaller than a soccer ball'.
I've played both sports pretty much all my life but I always thought both balls were the same size, with the A'Neils being heavier. Everyday's a school day
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 08, 2015, 01:33:17 PM
Here's the rule
2.7 (a) When the ball is played over the endline by
the Team attacking that end, or after a score
is made, play is restarted by a kick-out off the
ground from the 13m line and within the large
rectangle.
If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, he
shall stay in the small rectangle, and all other
players, except the player taking the kick-out,
shall be outside the 20m line and 13m from
the ball, until it has been kicked.
The player taking a kick-out may kick the
ball more than once before any other player
touches it but may not take the ball into his
hands.
The ball shall travel 13m before being played
by another player of the defending team.
So therefore you could technically kick the ball 13 metres sideways (which is what our goalie did in that game) and as long as the defender was outside the 20 metre line at the time the ball was kicked, he could run in and get it.
Alternatively your full back could take the kick out backwards towards the goalkeeper, so long as it traveled 13 m and the goalie started off in the small square and then the FB could take the return pass.
Quote from: Zulu on November 20, 2014, 06:17:55 PM
5 years for all position I think.
That's a county level regulation only?
I was chatting to my nephew who plays U12 for a club in Dublin earlier and he's convinced that there's a rule against 1) using two hands to tackle the ball and 2) using anything other than the "near" hand to tackle (he wasn't able to explain what the "near" hand was when you're tackling front on, but anyway)
While I realise that both of these are good practice i.e. you're less likely to foul the playerl; I'm fairly certain that neither are actual rules. Can anyone confirm??
;D ;D
We did discuss that alright
Can you lift a team mate up to catch the ball, like in a line-out in rugby? Be deadly for the smallish Tyrone lads trying to get a mark.
Does a goalkeeper have any sort of exemption from the foot block rule?
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2017, 11:50:10 AM
Can you lift a team mate up to catch the ball, like in a line-out in rugby? Be deadly for the smallish Tyrone lads trying to get a mark.
Check out the 'GAA for Dummies' book, if there is one,
until now I didn't think there was a need for one.
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2017, 11:50:10 AM
Can you lift a team mate up to catch the ball, like in a line-out in rugby? Be deadly for the smallish Tyrone lads trying to get a mark.
There's no rule against it. So if you did it and the ref blew it, it'd be interesting to hear his reason and what rule he was invoking.
the ban on foreign sports
Can a few carry a player on his shoulders while he holds the ball high in the air?
This would mean the ball carrier could cover the distance of the pitch without taking any steps and there is no determination on how long it might take to take 4 steps.
Quote from: Hardy on April 21, 2017, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2017, 11:50:10 AM
Can you lift a team mate up to catch the ball, like in a line-out in rugby? Be deadly for the smallish Tyrone lads trying to get a mark.
There's no rule against it. So if you did it and the ref blew it, it'd be interesting to hear his reason and what rule he was invoking.
If that's the case, could a player be lifted up to sit/stand on the crossbar to prevent a winning point?
Are there any transgender players within the GAA? Do the GAA rules address gender fluidity at all?
I know there have been several high profile cases in other sports which caused controversy.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 22, 2017, 10:23:52 AM
Are there any transgender players within the GAA? Do the GAA rules address gender fluidity at all?
I know there have been several high profile cases in other sports which caused controversy.
I wonder then, if Northern counties will have to have a percentage of their starting 15 made up of such players, to fall in line with Fair Employment/Equality legislation?
Quote from: vallankumous on April 22, 2017, 08:37:49 AM
Can a few carry a player on his shoulders while he holds the ball high in the air?
This would mean the ball carrier could cover the distance of the pitch without taking any steps and there is no determination on how long it might take to take 4 steps.
Or how long will a player in possession stand absolutely still before a ref gives a free against him?
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 22, 2017, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on April 22, 2017, 08:37:49 AM
Can a few carry a player on his shoulders while he holds the ball high in the air?
This would mean the ball carrier could cover the distance of the pitch without taking any steps and there is no determination on how long it might take to take 4 steps.
Or how long will a player in possession stand absolutely still before a ref gives a free against him?
So we're just pretending not to know the rules now
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 22, 2017, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 22, 2017, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on April 22, 2017, 08:37:49 AM
Can a few carry a player on his shoulders while he holds the ball high in the air?
This would mean the ball carrier could cover the distance of the pitch without taking any steps and there is no determination on how long it might take to take 4 steps.
Or how long will a player in possession stand absolutely still before a ref gives a free against him?
So we're just pretending not to know the rules now
From the "Important Terms and Definitions" part of the rulebook, in case anyone was wondering:
13. OVERCARRY
To take more than four steps while holding the ball in the hand(s).
14. OVERHOLD
To hold the ball longer than is required to take four steps.
Could this thread be made a sticky?
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 21, 2017, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2017, 11:50:10 AM
Can you lift a team mate up to catch the ball, like in a line-out in rugby? Be deadly for the smallish Tyrone lads trying to get a mark.
There's no rule against it. So if you did it and the ref blew it, it'd be interesting to hear his reason and what rule he was invoking.
If that's the case, could a player be lifted up to sit/stand on the crossbar to prevent a winning point?
Can't believe Jimmy McGuinness didn't try it.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 22, 2017, 10:54:44 PM
14. OVERHOLD
To hold the ball longer than is required to take four steps.
This is the type of shyte that make the Offical Guide a laugh. If you're standing still, the time to take four steps is infinity. If they mean the time required to take four steps if you weren't standing still, what sort of nonsense is that? If your imaginary steps (that you're not taking, remember) were running-flat-out steps, the time to take four of them might be 0.75 of a second. But the referee might be imagining walking steps, as the rules don't tell him otherwise. Four of those might take 3 seconds.
Quote from: Hardy on April 23, 2017, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 22, 2017, 10:54:44 PM
14. OVERHOLD
To hold the ball longer than is required to take four steps.
This is the type of shyte that make the Offical Guide a laugh. If you're standing still, the time to take four steps is infinity. If they mean the time required to take four steps if you weren't standing still, what sort of nonsense is that? If your imaginary steps (that you're not taking, remember) were running-flat-out steps, the time to take four of them might be 0.75 of a second. But the referee might be imagining walking steps, as the rules don't tell him otherwise. Four of those might take 3 seconds.
Be a lot easier if they said 4 seconds...
You'd get a lot more than 4 steps in 4 seconds
Not if you're playing in Omagh on a wet day.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 22, 2017, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 21, 2017, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 18, 2017, 11:50:10 AM
Can you lift a team mate up to catch the ball, like in a line-out in rugby? Be deadly for the smallish Tyrone lads trying to get a mark.
There's no rule against it. So if you did it and the ref blew it, it'd be interesting to hear his reason and what rule he was invoking.
If that's the case, could a player be lifted up to sit/stand on the crossbar to prevent a winning point?
:)
Agreed, but why not have 3 players on the crossbar (strength permitting of course) just to be sure of stopping the ball before it crossed the bar, as it is not written in the rules (or the book of genesis) that we can't?
For that matter, there is no rule saying we can't shove the ball up the jersey, take 4 giant leaps and give birth to ball in a more advantageous location on the pitch.
Yes ref, what do you have to say about that?
Just read Louth Meath report. Meath made a late change to their goalkeeper, and apparently that meant they'd used up one of their subs before the match had even started.
What's that all about then? Teams are forever making last minute changes and it doesn't count towards their sub allocation.
Quote from: BennyCake on June 05, 2017, 10:46:00 PM
Just read Louth Meath report. Meath made a late change to their goalkeeper, and apparently that meant they'd used up one of their subs before the match had even started.
What's that all about then? Teams are forever making last minute changes and it doesn't count towards their sub allocation.
why was he in the goal getting his hat when the 2nd goal went in???
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 05, 2017, 11:16:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 05, 2017, 10:46:00 PM
Just read Louth Meath report. Meath made a late change to their goalkeeper, and apparently that meant they'd used up one of their subs before the match had even started.
What's that all about then? Teams are forever making last minute changes and it doesn't count towards their sub allocation.
why was he in the goal getting his hat when the 2nd goal went in???
Mis-read that, it wasn't the goalie, but half forward.
And yeah, that was a strange one. Was like Paddy Cullen blind-folded!
Quote from: BennyCake on June 05, 2017, 10:46:00 PM
Just read Louth Meath report. Meath made a late change to their goalkeeper, and apparently that meant they'd used up one of their subs before the match had even started.
What's that all about then? Teams are forever making last minute changes and it doesn't count towards their sub allocation.
I believe if its after you've submitted the teams to the ref 30 mins before throw in you are locked in.
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on June 06, 2017, 08:45:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 05, 2017, 10:46:00 PM
Just read Louth Meath report. Meath made a late change to their goalkeeper, and apparently that meant they'd used up one of their subs before the match had even started.
What's that all about then? Teams are forever making last minute changes and it doesn't count towards their sub allocation.
I believe if its after you've submitted the teams to the ref 30 mins before throw in you are locked in.
Yeah - I think it's a newish enough rule and only for intercounty iirc - within the last 3/4 years at Congress.
One that you rarely see is the sideline ball being moved infield.
Pretty sure if the ref is being given cheek he can move the sideline kick onto the pitch playing area if it is more adventageous, just like he can move a normal free closer to goal.
Quote from: tyroneman on June 10, 2017, 07:14:26 PM
One that you rarely see is the sideline ball being moved infield.
Pretty sure if the ref is being given cheek he can move the sideline kick onto the pitch playing area if it is more adventageous, just like he can move a normal free closer to goal.
The ref did this on one occasion last week in the Down v Armagh game. I remember thinking that it looked odd (as its not normally done)
It happened in one of the games in at the weekend there too, I always thought 'you couldn't move up a sideline ball'. Was this a myth or did the rule change at some point?
Blood subs...
I thought when the rule was introduced, the blood sub coming on had to wear a coloured armband signifying he was a blood sub?
Maybe someone could clarify.
That was done originally alright.
However that was probably too transparent for the GAA and it had to be stopped.
Blood sub rule needs some tidying up.
As it is the Ref tells a lad to go off and a temporary sub comes on. It's up to his manager then how long to leave him on for and there seems to be no time limit which leaves it open to abuse.
Quote from: Minus15 on June 13, 2017, 05:26:54 PM
It happened in one of the games in at the weekend there too, I always thought 'you couldn't move up a sideline ball'. Was this a myth or did the rule change at some point?
Think it used to be that it could be moved in field but not forward but rule amended to allow it to be moved towards oposition goal.
I hear Jarlath's Rules Committee are bringing a tweak to the kick out before the Special Hurley Congress - that the ball has to go outside the 20m line.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 21, 2017, 06:53:52 PM
That was done originally alright.
However that was probably too transparent for the GAA and it had to be stopped.
Blood sub rule needs some tidying up.
As it is the Ref tells a lad to go off and a temporary sub comes on. It's up to his manager then how long to leave him on for and there seems to be no time limit which leaves it open to abuse.
Needs tidying indeed.
So, a player could get hurt and bloodied at same time, goes off to get blood sorted. While on sideline, he can't return due to injury, but blood sub stays on.
Can injured/bloody player just slink back to the bench hoping nobody noticed he's all cleaned up, and should be ready to return to play? Does anyone check that he returns immediately? Really then the team get away with using an extra sub?
Because the ref initiates a blood sub, rather than the team, there is a loophole that can be exploited alright. But you'd want to be lucky that the ref orders a lad off that you don't mind losing :)
One of the other complications is that the returning player does NOT have to replace the lad that came on for him, and this would only count as one sub.
Example, Player A gets cut, and re calls for a sub, player B.
Player B has a stormer, but they want Player A to come back on. Player A returns for Player C.
So effectively Player A's return negates the blood sub, and Player B actually replaces Player C. It only counts as 1 sub.
Season or two ago a Rugby Union team in England gave a sub a blood capsule to get around a blood sub rule (cant mind the team).
Only a matter of time before someone here is caught at it (assuming it is already taking place left, right and centre)
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2017, 03:30:40 PM
Season or two ago a Rugby Union team in England gave a sub a blood capsule to get around a blood sub rule (cant mind the team).
Only a matter of time before someone here is caught at it (assuming it is already taking place left, right and centre)
That was Harlequins against Leinster in a Heineken Cup Quarter Final. Nick Evans it was. They went so far as to cut him with a razor in the dressing room after to try and head off suspicion.
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2017, 03:30:40 PM
Season or two ago a Rugby Union team in England gave a sub a blood capsule to get around a blood sub rule (cant mind the team).
Only a matter of time before someone here is caught at it (assuming it is already taking place left, right and centre)
Tomato ketchup would do the same trick.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 22, 2017, 04:18:05 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2017, 03:30:40 PM
Season or two ago a Rugby Union team in England gave a sub a blood capsule to get around a blood sub rule (cant mind the team).
Only a matter of time before someone here is caught at it (assuming it is already taking place left, right and centre)
That was Harlequins against Leinster in a Heineken Cup Quarter Final. Nick Evans it was. They went so far as to cut him with a razor in the dressing room after to try and head off suspicion.
That's the one. I have no doubt it is in our games as well. No reason to believe it isn't when we are already up to our neck in diving, drugs etc etc :-\
Quote from: tyroneman on June 10, 2017, 07:14:26 PM
One that you rarely see is the sideline ball being moved infield.
Pretty sure if the ref is being given cheek he can move the sideline kick onto the pitch playing area if it is more adventageous, just like he can move a normal free closer to goal.
In the Offaly replay there was something similar. After Heslin scored one of the late goals, Tommy McDaniels ran into the goal, retrieved the ball and kicked it straight into the stand. Referee brought the kickout forward the 13m and the keeper took it out of his hands. Fella operating the scoreboard thought the referee was giving a free out due to where and how the kickout was taken and promptly removed the goal from the scoreboard. This led to confusion in the stand and on the various media platforms until it reappeared without notice on the scoreboard 5 minutes later.
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2017, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 22, 2017, 04:18:05 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2017, 03:30:40 PM
Season or two ago a Rugby Union team in England gave a sub a blood capsule to get around a blood sub rule (cant mind the team).
Only a matter of time before someone here is caught at it (assuming it is already taking place left, right and centre)
That was Harlequins against Leinster in a Heineken Cup Quarter Final. Nick Evans it was. They went so far as to cut him with a razor in the dressing room after to try and head off suspicion.
I witnessed in a Tyrone senior championship game a few years ago, a player go down injured and the physio coming on to treat him, it was pretty obvious he wouldnt be able to continue and the team had already used their subs,so the physio hit him a box in the mouth to draw blood !!
Happened right in front of us,we couldnt believe it ;D ;D ;D.
That's the one. I have no doubt it is in our games as well. No reason to believe it isn't when we are already up to our neck in diving, drugs etc etc :-\
Ah, that's Tyrone for ye!
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 23, 2017, 10:25:41 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2017, 07:54:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 22, 2017, 04:18:05 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2017, 03:30:40 PM
Season or two ago a Rugby Union team in England gave a sub a blood capsule to get around a blood sub rule (cant mind the team).
Only a matter of time before someone here is caught at it (assuming it is already taking place left, right and centre)
That was Harlequins against Leinster in a Heineken Cup Quarter Final. Nick Evans it was. They went so far as to cut him with a razor in the dressing room after to try and head off suspicion.
I witnessed in a Tyrone senior championship game a few years ago, a player go down injured and the physio coming on to treat him, it was pretty obvious he wouldnt be able to continue and the team had already used their subs,so the physio hit him a box in the mouth to draw blood !!
Happened right in front of us,we couldnt believe it ;D ;D ;D.
That's the one. I have no doubt it is in our games as well. No reason to believe it isn't when we are already up to our neck in diving, drugs etc etc :-\
I remember that incident well, think there was actually red sauce used, was laughable but they went on to won the game
Going to use roscommons second goal as an example but there's plenty. How many steps can you take? Do refs just ignore it at times?? Or have I missed a rule change?
I'm confused (common enough) on the difference between a legal 2 /3 man tackle and an illegal one.
Oft times I see almost exactly the same scenario being played out, a player on the ball receiving slaps/blows from 2 or more players simultaneoulsly, sometimes the foul is given, sometimes not.
You're only allowed play the ball so if any of the three defenders hit Donaghy rather than the ball it was a free, though I know that's not really how it's reffed. Thought it was a free myself.
You wouldn't mind (within reason) contact from one tackler in an attempt to get the ball, happens all the time, but 2/3 players flaying away simulaneoulsy with arms and hands is a clear foul. I thought the interpretation was back in the day of the swarm, that there could only be one active while others can swarm around, blocking.
There's nothing in the rules (never was, I'm fairly sure) about the number of players who can tackle and I don't remember any interpretation of rules that considered the number of payers involved.
I think it's one of those mythical rules that were imagined into existence by force of erroneous reference, like rolling ball, you can't tackle the goalkeeper, etc.
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 09, 2017, 10:37:48 PM
Going to use roscommons second goal as an example but there's plenty. How many steps can you take? Do refs just ignore it at times?? Or have I missed a rule change?
No, but you've missed a full thread on the subject.
Quote from: Hardy on August 02, 2017, 01:39:56 PM
There's nothing in the rules (never was, I'm fairly sure) about the number of players who can tackle and I don't remember any interpretation of rules that considered the number of payers involved.
I think it's one of those mythical rules that were imagined into existence by force of erroneous reference, like rolling ball, you can't tackle the goalkeeper, etc.
Correcto (2 turns ref!)
"The tackle is a skill by which one or more players may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the rules of fair play. A tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. A tackler may use his body to confront the opponent, but deliberate bodily contact such as punching, slapping, arm-holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge is forbidden."
My point is there is leeway for one player to tackle and make body contact at the same time but when you have 2 and 3 doing it at the same time, flaying arms in unison, then imo that's a foul.
Quote from: Main Street on August 02, 2017, 08:55:08 PM
"The tackle is a skill by which one or more players may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the rules of fair play. A tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. A tackler may use his body to confront the opponent, but deliberate bodily contact such as punching, slapping, arm-holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge is forbidden."
My point is there is leeway for one player to tackle and make body contact at the same time but when you have 2 and 3 doing it at the same time, flaying arms in unison, then imo that's a foul.
That tackle definition isn't fit for purpose.
What are "the rules of fair play"?
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 03, 2017, 10:48:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 02, 2017, 08:55:08 PM
"The tackle is a skill by which one or more players may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the rules of fair play. A tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. A tackler may use his body to confront the opponent, but deliberate bodily contact such as punching, slapping, arm-holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge is forbidden."
My point is there is leeway for one player to tackle and make body contact at the same time but when you have 2 and 3 doing it at the same time, flaying arms in unison, then imo that's a foul.
That tackle definition isn't fit for purpose.
who said it was fit for purpose, but it's a standard not a gospel.
Slapping, punching, pushing within limits is allowed when you have one tackler doing it, but 2 or 3 slapping, punching, pushing at the same time? is that fit for purpose?
Heard on the news that a rule about kickouts having to go outside the 21 got approved at Congress today. Didn't even realise this was up for discussion. Big enough change and will definitely have an effect next year
Anything that encourages the ball being kicked forward is to be welcomed.
This was signalled from way back but in typical GAA world fashion no one notices till it's passed.
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2017, 11:16:20 PM
Heard on the news that a rule about kickouts having to go outside the 21 got approved at Congress today. Didn't even realise this was up for discussion. Big enough change and will definitely have an effect next year
Good move. Along with the mark it should ensure more high fielding.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2017, 12:38:36 AM
Anything that encourages the ball being kicked forward is to be welcomed.
This was signalled from way back but in typical GAA world fashion no one notices till it's passed.
Fair enough it was presumably signalled but I didn't hear it discussed on any podcasts or papers. Or even on here, was it discussed? Overall, I think it's likely to be positive but it definitely came in under the radar
Apologies if discussed previously.
So, up to the third black card, player can be replaced.
Does a team get an additional black card sub, if the game goes to extra time?
Who sets the rules for free-kick shootouts after extra time?
Mullahoran and Banagher had to participate at the weekend, and both management said they weren't in favour. Just wondered if it was ulster council or gaa hq who set the rules of this?
What would have been the penalty if both teams had have refused to take part in the shootout?
I'd imagine it's HQ finish on the day and all that.
Would both clubs be disqualified?
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2018, 08:06:56 PM
Who sets the rules for free-kick shootouts after extra time?
Mullahoran and Banagher had to participate at the weekend, and both management said they weren't in favour. Just wondered if it was ulster council or gaa hq who set the rules of this?
What would have been the penalty if both teams had have refused to take part in the shootout?
I'd imagine St Endas would have been crowned champions, it's not like that's the first time it's happened, the players managers and club officials would have known long beforehand, emails or even meetings in some cases are held and club secretary is informed of times regulations on subs water carriers and so.. the place to object is before the match!
Fair enough so.
Still, a shitty way to decide a match.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2018, 10:04:38 PM
Fair enough so.
Still, a shitty way to decide a match.
Rotten, and I'd only use the method if the other game is 7 days away, if there is a 2 week gap then play the game on the Wednesday night to a finish then.. it needs to be looked at but time constraints can upset the other team having to wait and extra week sitting on their hands
A fella goes to catch the ball
He has it, ref blows whistle, and somehow he drops it
what would the referee do?
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:30:31 PM
A fella goes to catch the ball
He has it, ref blows whistle, and somehow he drops it
what would the referee do?
He has to be in possession when he lands on his feet.
One that gets me and I'll be honest, if the ball is kicked out and one lad goes for a catch comes off his hands and it's wrestled away into another players hands before he lands is it a mark?
The ball during the ping pong moment hasn't touched the ground
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 10:37:32 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:30:31 PM
A fella goes to catch the ball
He has it, ref blows whistle, and somehow he drops it
what would the referee do?
He has to be in possession when he lands on his feet.
One that gets me and I'll be honest, if the ball is kicked out and one lad goes for a catch comes off his hands and it's wrestled away into another players hands before he lands is it a mark?
The ball during the ping pong moment hasn't touched the ground
it caught me twice this year, once at the weekend during a uni game. I said to the lad, he didn't complete the mark, therefore he can't keep possession. The opposition player came in and claimed possession, but because the fella who dropped its team were down a bucketful, i threw the ball up.
It's not in the mark rule guidelines by the GAA
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 10:37:32 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:30:31 PM
A fella goes to catch the ball
He has it, ref blows whistle, and somehow he drops it
what would the referee do?
He has to be in possession when he lands on his feet.
One that gets me and I'll be honest, if the ball is kicked out and one lad goes for a catch comes off his hands and it's wrestled away into another players hands before he lands is it a mark?
The ball during the ping pong moment hasn't touched the ground
No that is not a mark, the catch has to be done without the ball touching any other player. The player who eventually marks the ball can juggle with it as long as he wants as long it doesnt touch another player
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:45:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 10:37:32 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:30:31 PM
A fella goes to catch the ball
He has it, ref blows whistle, and somehow he drops it
what would the referee do?
He has to be in possession when he lands on his feet.
One that gets me and I'll be honest, if the ball is kicked out and one lad goes for a catch comes off his hands and it's wrestled away into another players hands before he lands is it a mark?
The ball during the ping pong moment hasn't touched the ground
No that is not a mark, the catch has to be done without the ball touching any other player. The player who eventually marks the ball can juggle with it as long as he wants as long it doesnt touch another player
That's a hard call when three players go for a ball there are hands on that ball by 3 players, even though a player 'catches' it!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 10:54:43 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:45:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 10:37:32 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:30:31 PM
A fella goes to catch the ball
He has it, ref blows whistle, and somehow he drops it
what would the referee do?
He has to be in possession when he lands on his feet.
One that gets me and I'll be honest, if the ball is kicked out and one lad goes for a catch comes off his hands and it's wrestled away into another players hands before he lands is it a mark?
The ball during the ping pong moment hasn't touched the ground
No that is not a mark, the catch has to be done without the ball touching any other player. The player who eventually marks the ball can juggle with it as long as he wants as long it doesnt touch another player
That's a hard call when three players go for a ball there are hands on that ball by 3 players, even though a player 'catches' it!
What would you do with my predicament?
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 11:00:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 10:54:43 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:45:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 10:37:32 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on November 20, 2018, 10:30:31 PM
A fella goes to catch the ball
He has it, ref blows whistle, and somehow he drops it
what would the referee do?
He has to be in possession when he lands on his feet.
One that gets me and I'll be honest, if the ball is kicked out and one lad goes for a catch comes off his hands and it's wrestled away into another players hands before he lands is it a mark?
The ball during the ping pong moment hasn't touched the ground
No that is not a mark, the catch has to be done without the ball touching any other player. The player who eventually marks the ball can juggle with it as long as he wants as long it doesnt touch another player
That's a hard call when three players go for a ball there are hands on that ball by 3 players, even though a player 'catches' it!
What would you do with my predicament?
If you blow your whistle for the mark then stand over it, but delay your next call until you're sure :)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 11:08:46 PM
If you blow your whistle for the mark then stand over it, but delay your next call until you're sure :)
Seen it at club level in Dublin 4 or 5 times this year. A player looks like he's claiming a mark, the ref blows the whistle and simultaneously the players drops the ball before completing the catch. In all those cases, the ref gave the mark. I think rightly so. The whistle signals the completion of the mark (rightly or wrongly!). And perhaps in some of those cases the player might have argued that the whistle blowing jolted his concentration resulting in the ball dropping.
Quote from: Hound on November 21, 2018, 07:27:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2018, 11:08:46 PM
If you blow your whistle for the mark then stand over it, but delay your next call until you're sure :)
Seen it at club level in Dublin 4 or 5 times this year. A player looks like he's claiming a mark, the ref blows the whistle and simultaneously the players drops the ball before completing the catch. In all those cases, the ref gave the mark. I think rightly so. The whistle signals the completion of the mark (rightly or wrongly!). And perhaps in some of those cases the player might have argued that the whistle blowing jolted his concentration resulting in the ball dropping.
Agreed. Refs can make wrong calls :o but once it is made it is made.
Reading an article about Weeshie Fogarty.
Apparently as a referee, he gave out the first yellow card when the GAA trialled yellow/reds in 1979. Makes you wonder why on earth it wasn't continued?! It's a no brainer!
Then again, Tyrone might have beat Dublin in 1995 had Charlie been on the sideline like he should have been. Every cloud, and all that...
Little off topic but we've no hurling threads to go to really. Changing the ball from white to yellow for visibility, as tennis did back in the day.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/gaa-set-to-standardise-yellow-sliotar-after-fenway-classic-37552182.html
Can see a bit of a kick back on this from the odd person, a hurler mentioned just the week past watching the Fenway that different colored balls annoyed him. We'd always have had the odd luminous orange one lying around training and i did find it strange, certainly moreso than the yellow "floodlight football" but probably something you'd get used to.
Does anyone know the official rule for kickouts. Seems to be in club games that referees interrupt the rules different from each other. Our keeper says that the ball can be kicked from the 14 yard line and as long as it travels outside the 21 yard line it is legal even if they are standing inside the D. A ref blew it up as a hopball in our game tonight. who is right?
Here is the rule regarding kick outs.
Question - Did the ball travel more than 13 m
2.7 (a) When the ball is played over the endline by
the Team attacking that end, or after a score
is made, play is restarted by a kick-out off the
ground from the 13m line and within the large
rectangle.
If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, he
shall stay in the small rectangle, and all other
players, except the player taking the kick-out,
shall be outside the 20m line and 13m from the
ball, until it has been kicked.
The player taking a kick-out may kick the
ball more than once before any other player
touches it but may not take the ball into his
hands.
The ball shall travel 13m before being played
by another player of the defending team
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on May 03, 2019, 10:41:36 PM
Here is the rule regarding kick outs.
Question - Did the ball travel more than 13 m
How is the referee meant to know how far 13m is? Should the semi circle be remarked on each pitch as a 13m radius from the 14 yard line then there is a definate region that you cannot be allowed in
The semi circle was introduced to ensure that all players were 13 metres from the player taking a penalty.It has no relevance regarding a kick out presently but in the past when kick outs were taken at different points whether it be a wide or a score it had relevance. With the kick out from the 13 m line after a wide or a score it done away with this requirement
You asked how does a referee know how they know if a ball has traveled 13m. The same way he/she makes a judgement if a player is too close to a player taking a sideline or a free - it is a judgement call.
The introduction of the semi circle by a rules revision committee some years back who thought it would be a good idea but there was a knock on effect on the existing rules in force at that time for both football and hurling and had to be revised. This is something I feel Rules Revision Committees do not take into consideration - the consequences of proposed rule changes and how it affects other rules.
You are actually 22m from a penalty taker now when outside the D, as the penalty was moved in 2m from the 13m line where it used to be. Even though the kick out and penalty positions have changed, the exclusion zone hasn't
So the player taking the kick out can tap it 5 or 6 metres and then kick it again?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2019, 11:54:51 PM
So the player taking the kick out can tap it 5 or 6 metres and then kick it again?
Technically yes, but there is nothing to stop an attacker tackling him after he taps it the first time!
In theory the player taking the kickout could 'dribble' it all the way to the far end of the pitch (if not opponent bothered to tackle him!)
If a team has a sideline ball, and the opposition stop them from taking it quickly and its moved up 10 yards or so, does it still stay as a sideline or does it become a free kick?
Quote from: Nanderson on June 10, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
If a team has a sideline ball, and the opposition stop them from taking it quickly and its moved up 10 yards or so, does it still stay as a sideline or does it become a free kick?
Becomes a free
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 09:31:30 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on June 10, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
If a team has a sideline ball, and the opposition stop them from taking it quickly and its moved up 10 yards or so, does it still stay as a sideline or does it become a free kick?
Becomes a free
Thats what i thought but our referee tonight blew a player up for standing over the line
Quote from: Nanderson on June 10, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
If a team has a sideline ball, and the opposition stop them from taking it quickly and its moved up 10 yards or so, does it still stay as a sideline or does it become a free kick?
Can you bring a sideline closer to the opposition goals? News to me
Quote from: Nanderson on June 10, 2019, 09:35:09 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 09:31:30 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on June 10, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
If a team has a sideline ball, and the opposition stop them from taking it quickly and its moved up 10 yards or so, does it still stay as a sideline or does it become a free kick?
Becomes a free
Thats what i thought but our referee tonight blew a player up for standing over the line
But if it's brought 14m closer to the goal, the kick shouldn't be anywhere near the sideline.
That's the way it happens in Dublin club football anyway. Never seen it brought forward by just moving down the line.
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 09:49:58 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on June 10, 2019, 09:35:09 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 09:31:30 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on June 10, 2019, 09:23:45 PM
If a team has a sideline ball, and the opposition stop them from taking it quickly and its moved up 10 yards or so, does it still stay as a sideline or does it become a free kick?
Becomes a free
Thats what i thought but our referee tonight blew a player up for standing over the line
But if it's brought 14m closer to the goal, the kick shouldn't be anywhere near the sideline.
That's the way it happens in Dublin club football anyway. Never seen it brought forward by just moving down the line.
he just moved it down the line 10 yards and our player kicked it about 2 yards onto the pitch. He's a pretty shit ref so im not surprised he doesnt know the rules
Jesus lads. Pet hate alert...
If we are measuring distance for Gaelic football in terms of moving the ball up, how far a free travels, etc. Its 14 yards or 13 metres.
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 11, 2019, 05:55:58 AM
Jesus lads. Pet hate alert...
If we are measuring distance for Gaelic football in terms of moving the ball up, how far a free travels, etc. Its 14 yards or 13 metres.
13m
Reffed a game last night and got a bit of dogs abuse from both teams. Retired to the bar after and met some of players. Being in Britain we're closely knit so you know them all and we all frequent same local.
"Je lad you were not good today " came the call from a few boys from both teams.
"Fair enough", I said "what did I do wrong?"
One boy said
"Them two high tackles should have been black cards"
I replied "a high tackle is not a black card, I gave two yellows to their men as it didn't warrant a red"
He continued
" what about the the hop ball you give when we had the free?"
I responded " yes you won free, but your man gave a sly dig with elbow. I was standing 5 metres away whilst you were 50 meters away".
He went on "why did you gave their team a free after everyone starting pushing each other?"
I came back at him "when the player in your team tried and boot the ball off the other mans head, the ball ended up going to the opposition team anyway. A schomzzle broke out. I stopped play to deal with it. The other team were in possession of ball so I gave them possession from the restart."
Another player, "why did you give the hop ball from the lockout?"
"Because it didn't go 13 metre"
" it if cross the line"
"It did, but still needs to travel 13m".
F
U
C
I
I
N
G
H
E
L
L
Quote from: hardstation on June 14, 2019, 08:28:48 AM
They're right though. You're a w4nker.
He didn't say I was a w**ker
Quote from: theticklemister on June 14, 2019, 07:17:19 AM
Reffed a game last night and got a bit of dogs abuse from both teams. Retired to the bar after and met some of players. Being in Britain we're closely knit so you know them all and we all frequent same local.
"Je lad you were not good today " came the call from a few boys from both teams.
"Fair enough", I said "what did I do wrong?"
One boy said
"Them two high tackles should have been black cards"
I replied "a high tackle is not a black card, I gave two yellows to their men as it didn't warrant a red"
He continued
" what about the the hop ball you give when we had the free?"
I responded " yes you won free, but your man gave a sly dig with elbow. I was standing 5 metres away whilst you were 50 meters away".
He went on "why did you gave their team a free after everyone starting pushing each other?"
I came back at him "when the player in your team tried and boot the ball off the other mans head, the ball ended up going to the opposition team anyway. A schomzzle broke out. I stopped play to deal with it. The other team were in possession of ball so I gave them possession from the restart."
Another player, "why did you give the hop ball from the lockout?"
"Because it didn't go 13 metre"
" it if cross the line"
"It did, but still needs to travel 13m".
F
U
C
I
I
N
G
H
E
L
L
The problem is that people have their own blinkered version of the rules. It's a tough enough job in Ireland - its a bloody awful job over here. Keep up the good work fella.
The amount of wankers that don't know the rules!
I'd a referee from a local club pull me during a kids tournament to say it's a hop ball if a player touches it before the required distance! A proper balloon who would give the rest of the refs a bad name!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 15, 2019, 12:50:43 AM
The amount of w**kers that don't know the rules!
I'd a referee from a local club pull me during a kids tournament to say it's a hop ball if a player touches it before the required distance! A proper balloon who would give the rest of the refs a bad name!
That's the issue - people don't have a clue about the rules - not a clue.
At an All Ireland hurling semi-final a couple of yesrs ago. Somebody behind me shouted, 'That's a black card'...omg.
Quote from: marty34 on June 15, 2019, 09:02:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 15, 2019, 12:50:43 AM
The amount of w**kers that don't know the rules!
I'd a referee from a local club pull me during a kids tournament to say it's a hop ball if a player touches it before the required distance! A proper balloon who would give the rest of the refs a bad name!
That's the issue - people don't have a clue about the rules - not a clue.
At an All Ireland hurling semi-final a couple of yesrs ago. Somebody behind me shouted, 'That's a black card'...omg.
Got this chucked at me in a ladies game too ffs
Can anyone tell me if Clifford fouls the ball here?
He takes possession and hops the ball. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces. I would have thought this would be similar to handpassing the ball over someone's head and catching it.
https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929 (https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929)
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on June 26, 2019, 05:23:13 AM
Can anyone tell me if Clifford fouls the ball here?
He takes possession and hops the ball. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces. I would have thought this would be similar to handpassing the ball over someone's head and catching it.
https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929 (https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929)
Never took possession after the first (only) hop?
His mind appears at a different level, foul or not, though.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on June 26, 2019, 05:44:17 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on June 26, 2019, 05:23:13 AM
Can anyone tell me if Clifford fouls the ball here?
He takes possession and hops the ball. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces. I would have thought this would be similar to handpassing the ball over someone's head and catching it.
https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929 (https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929)
Never took possession after the first (only) hop?
His mind appears at a different level, foul or not, though.
I don't deny it was a great piece of quick thinking (or instinct, I suppose). Kindof reminded me of the AFL goal of the season from Jack Higgins last year where he handballed the ball and ran around the post to kick it in.
https://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-07-28/is-this-goal-of-the-year (https://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-07-28/is-this-goal-of-the-year)
Quote from: Ball Hopper on June 26, 2019, 05:44:17 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on June 26, 2019, 05:23:13 AM
Can anyone tell me if Clifford fouls the ball here?
He takes possession and hops the ball. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces. I would have thought this would be similar to handpassing the ball over someone's head and catching it.
https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929 (https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929)
Never took possession after the first (only) hop?
His mind appears at a different level, foul or not, though.
It could be seen as, he hopped the ball then he slipped so lost control and flicked it over his head and played on, or a ref would have been just as right to call it as a throw and catch before the ball either touched the ground or a player
There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford.
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 26, 2019, 08:17:42 AM
There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford.
With a foul being called, can a player in possession of the ball, hop the ball and instead of catching the ball on the rebound, decide to fist it over an opponent's head, run around and repossess the ball?
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 26, 2019, 08:17:42 AM
There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford.
+1.
Quote from: Main Street on June 26, 2019, 10:41:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 26, 2019, 08:17:42 AM
There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford.
With a foul being called, can a player in possession of the ball, hop the ball and instead of catching the ball on the rebound, decide to fist it over an opponent's head, run around and repossess the ball?
That is perfectly legal
If he had hand passed the ball over the opponent, it would have to bounce . But it was a open handed flick ! So I presume its ok
Can a player stand on the crossbar to stop a free kick going over the bar? Or stand on another players shoulder?
Quote from: BennyCake on June 26, 2019, 10:22:58 PM
Can a player stand on the crossbar to stop a free kick going over the bar? Or stand on another players shoulder?
Players (namely goalkeepers) can't interfere with the goal posts during an opponents free, yellow card.
Not sure on the other one though I'd say that's it's dangerous so the ref would stop it
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 26, 2019, 08:17:42 AM
There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford.
That's part of the problem, though. Understanding the rules. There is too much room for interpretation.
Clifford here isn't juggling the ball trying to gain control. He is in control the entire time. He flicks the ball up over the defenders head and catches it before it hits the ground.
If this was out the field and a player, running towards another player, did the same it would be blown up (imo)
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on June 26, 2019, 10:45:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 26, 2019, 08:17:42 AM
There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford.
That's part of the problem, though. Understanding the rules. There is too much room for interpretation.
Clifford here isn't juggling the ball trying to gain control. He is in control the entire time. He flicks the ball up over the defenders head and catches it before it hits the ground.
If this was out the field and a player, running towards another player, did the same it would be blown up (imo)
Could be looked at this way, he slipped gain control quickly and flicked it over head and gained possession.
Either way it's down to the refs interpretation of what happened at that split second, 20 refs would be split down the middle on that one, I guarantee that one will be used at a refs meeting next year
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2019, 11:01:37 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on June 26, 2019, 10:45:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 26, 2019, 08:17:42 AM
There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford.
That's part of the problem, though. Understanding the rules. There is too much room for interpretation.
Clifford here isn't juggling the ball trying to gain control. He is in control the entire time. He flicks the ball up over the defenders head and catches it before it hits the ground.
If this was out the field and a player, running towards another player, did the same it would be blown up (imo)
Could be looked at this way, he slipped gain control quickly and flicked it over head and gained possession.
Either way it's down to the refs interpretation of what happened at that split second, 20 refs would be split down the middle on that one, I guarantee that one will be used at a refs meeting next year
Agree with what you are saying - it could be interpreted that way. I don't think that's what happened though
I think it's not as clear cut as "There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford."
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 26, 2019, 03:18:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 26, 2019, 10:41:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 26, 2019, 08:17:42 AM
There's no way anyone who understands the rules could call a foul on clifford.
With a foul being called, can a player in possession of the ball, hop the ball and instead of catching the ball on the rebound, decide to fist it over an opponent's head, run around and repossess the ball?
That is perfectly legal
Thanks, though i meant to write 'without a foul being called', the answer still fits he question.
I thought the Clifford incident was a foul. You aren't allowed to transfer the possession of the ball from one hand to another unless both hands are on the ball simultaneously I thought.
No, Clifford is not in possession or control of the ball at the instant he flicks it over the defender's head. The ball has been bounced but possession is not regained - it's in the air.
In the same way that he could score a goal with that action whereas he couldn't if he was in control of the ball
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 27, 2019, 09:10:53 AM
No, Clifford is not in possession or control of the ball at the instant he flicks it over the defender's head. The ball has been bounced but possession is not regained - it's in the air.
In the same way that he could score a goal with that action whereas he couldn't if he was in control of the ball
Correct. I didn't think this was so difficult.
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 27, 2019, 09:10:53 AM
No, Clifford is not in possession or control of the ball at the instant he flicks it over the defender's head. The ball has been bounced but possession is not regained - it's in the air.
In the same way that he could score a goal with that action whereas he couldn't if he was in control of the ball
I'm going to completely disagree here in respect of a goal. Clifford has possession of the ball. Bounces it but doesn't lose possession therefore he retains possession in the split second before flicking it over the head and catching it with his other hand. If you were correct then all you had to do score a fisted goal is bounce the ball and punch it as it comes back up.
Quote from: BennyCake on June 26, 2019, 10:22:58 PM
Can a player stand on the crossbar to stop a free kick going over the bar? Or stand on another players shoulder?
Didn't McGeeney lift Andrew McCann in the air in a vain attempt to block Maurice Fitzgerald's late free in the drawn 2000 semi?
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on June 27, 2019, 10:30:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 26, 2019, 10:22:58 PM
Can a player stand on the crossbar to stop a free kick going over the bar? Or stand on another players shoulder?
Didn't McGeeney lift Andrew McCann in the air in a vain attempt to block Maurice Fitzgerald's late free in the drawn 2000 semi?
Yes I had that in mind when asking that question.
Just wondered if he had have stood on his shoulders, and he blocked the ball, would it have been allowed?
Or if two or three players created a set of stairs for another player(s) to run up them, and get high into the air to block the kick. I mean, as long as he/they was far enough away from the kicker, why wouldn't that be allowed?
Quote from: David McKeown on June 27, 2019, 09:46:54 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 27, 2019, 09:10:53 AM
No, Clifford is not in possession or control of the ball at the instant he flicks it over the defender's head. The ball has been bounced but possession is not regained - it's in the air.
In the same way that he could score a goal with that action whereas he couldn't if he was in control of the ball
I'm going to completely disagree here in respect of a goal. Clifford has possession of the ball. Bounces it but doesn't lose possession therefore he retains possession in the split second before flicking it over the head and catching it with his other hand. If you were correct then all you had to do score a fisted goal is bounce the ball and punch it as it comes back up.
Correct - that would be a legitimate goal. Who would risk the timing and variances of a bounce when bearing down on a keeper?
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 27, 2019, 03:20:36 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 27, 2019, 09:46:54 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 27, 2019, 09:10:53 AM
No, Clifford is not in possession or control of the ball at the instant he flicks it over the defender's head. The ball has been bounced but possession is not regained - it's in the air.
In the same way that he could score a goal with that action whereas he couldn't if he was in control of the ball
I'm going to completely disagree here in respect of a goal. Clifford has possession of the ball. Bounces it but doesn't lose possession therefore he retains possession in the split second before flicking it over the head and catching it with his other hand. If you were correct then all you had to do score a fisted goal is bounce the ball and punch it as it comes back up.
Correct - that would be a legitimate goal. Who would risk the timing and variances of a bounce when bearing down on a keeper?
I disagree you remain in possession of the ball when bouncing it. Playing rule 1 states:
When a player is in possession of the ball, it may be:-
(a) carried for a maximum of four consecutive steps or held in the hand(s) for no longer than the time needed to take four steps;
(b) played from the foot to the hand(s) -toe- tapped;
(c) bounced once, and once after each toe-tap;
(d) changed from one hand to the other once,
with the original holding hand maintaining
contact until the change is completed;
Playing rule 3 states as far as is relevant
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a point with the open hand(s) or fist.
So for me Clifford fouled the ball by transferring it between hands in effect throwing the ball
If he had soloed [sp] the ball and it skipped away from him and he then flicked it to another player that would not be deemed a foul by most referees as you would see that regularly happening in matches and I cannot recall it ever being penalised, so why should it be any different because he bounced the ball/
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 27, 2019, 04:51:22 PM
If he had soloed [sp] the ball and it skipped away from him and he then flicked it to another player that would not be deemed a foul by most referees as you would see that regularly happening in matches and I cannot recall it ever being penalised, so why should it be any different because he bounced the ball/
Your example is different for a couple of reasons. 1. If the ball skipped away from him after a solo then he arguably wouldn't be in possession any more. 2 There is nothing wrong with bouncing the ball then as it's coming back to your hand flicking it to a team mate but transferring it between hands or scoring are specifically not allowed under the rules.
There's no way that Clifford has possession for the entire passage of play.
If the Cork back hadn't bought the dummy and dived in, it would have been relatively easy for him to just jump up and win possession of the ball travelling through the air after Clifford flicks it up.
I don't see how can Clifford be deemed to be in possession of the ball, if the Cork player (or any other player) could have obtained possession by simply plucking it out of the air?
Quote from: David McKeown on June 27, 2019, 04:44:47 PM
So for me Clifford fouled the ball by transferring it between hands in effect throwing the ball
In that incident I don't see what Clifford did that is covered by the rule on changing hands.
The question is , did Clifford break this rule?
'To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts.'if he didn't foul and is deemed not to have been in possession of the ball when he flicked it over the head of the Cork player, then the change of hands does not come into the equation.
It's either he fouled when when flicking the ball over and catching it, or not?
If a player bounces (or solos) the ball with nobody near him and it goes a little bit too high and he taps it with one hand to bring the ball down and then catches it in the other hand.....is that a foul?
That's effectively what clifford did (except there was a defender in the way).
Not related to the specific recent discussion but couldn't think of anywhere more suitable
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/central-council-to-decide-fate-of-football-rule-experiments-38261030.html
As is obvious from this thread, there are many grey areas in the rules. I believe referees are briefed at the start of the year about changes and interpretation of the rules but this is never rolled out to the players and managers of teams. In our club we have a football team at one juvenile grade only, (this is only because one parent is willing to run it and we are a hurling club) so knowledge of the rules is a bit hazy and we concede a lot of frees for fouls the lads don't even know they are committing. However I see teams who have played for years committing similar fouls - and getting called for it- so it's not just our lads lack of knowledge at fault. I believe there is an onus on all county boards to introduce training to all juvenile players about the rules which might help reduce some of the abuse referees get. It seems that the ref is the only person allowed to make a mistake in a match and players can make as many as they like. All young players should have to do some refereeing to see what it's like. It might stop some of the abuse.
Quote from: Mad Mentor on June 28, 2019, 01:53:14 PM
As is obvious from this thread, there are many grey areas in the rules. I believe referees are briefed at the start of the year about changes and interpretation of the rules but this is never rolled out to the players and managers of teams. In our club we have a football team at one juvenile grade only, (this is only because one parent is willing to run it and we are a hurling club) so knowledge of the rules is a bit hazy and we concede a lot of frees for fouls the lads don't even know they are committing. However I see teams who have played for years committing similar fouls - and getting called for it- so it's not just our lads lack of knowledge at fault. I believe there is an onus on all county boards to introduce training to all juvenile players about the rules which might help reduce some of the abuse referees get. It seems that the ref is the only person allowed to make a mistake in a match and players can make as many as they like. All young players should have to do some refereeing to see what it's like. It might stop some of the abuse.
Excellent suggestions - anyone who has ever reffed a game, tends to be a lot more understanding about how difficult it is and how easy it is to miss something.
It would be interesting to see how many visits the rules section on the GAA website and how many times the rules documents were downloaded.
One thing that really bugs me about the television pundits is that a lot of the time they can be very hazy on the rules. The GAA should be hammering home this point, because people see the action and hear the pundits interpretation and think the pundits interpretation is gospel.
Recently I thought Tomas O'Se was poor in terms of the rules for the Kerry Cork game. Overall I thought Cork's tackling technique was woeful [I'd be shocked if they don't have a very high frees against total the next day out as well - they brought intensity to the game but their tackling attempts had very little proper technique whatsoever - so many times it was just a case of get close to the opposition player and flail arms wildly] Kerry by comparison I thought did poorly even in terms of getting close to the Cork players to make tackles - there was very little evidence of Donie Buckley's impact from what I saw - At one stage in the 2nd half a Cork player was yet again running through the central channel and one of the Kerry players actually made a proper tackle and turned the ball over and I remember thinking to myself - was that the first proper tackle leading to a turnover of the game.
O'Se made no mention of any of this (the constant fouls given away by Cork as a result of poor tackling technique ) that I can recall - he seemed to have no idea that for a tackle to be legit there has to be at least some sort of attempt to play the ball as opposed to the man. There was one occasion where a Cork player was blatantly pulling a Kerry players jersey and had a hold of the one of the Kerry player's arm and even when the action was shown back in slow motion he was on about it being a soft enough free. The problem is that so many people will have watched this and their idea of what's a legit tackle and what's a foul just gets more confused.
Quote from: Main Street on June 27, 2019, 11:55:17 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 27, 2019, 04:44:47 PM
So for me Clifford fouled the ball by transferring it between hands in effect throwing the ball
In that incident I don't see what Clifford did that is covered by the rule on changing hands.
The question is , did Clifford break this rule?
'To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts.'
if he didn't foul and is deemed not to have been in possession of the ball when he flicked it over the head of the Cork player, then the change of hands does not come into the equation.
It's either he fouled when when flicking the ball over and catching it, or not?
I wouldn't disagree with that. For me Clifford didn't loose possession and therefore fouled the ball in one or other of those two ways.
Probably a silly question, but the extra ball on the pitch for the Tyrone Cassidy goal?
Paddy Durcan's Point v Armagh. He toe-tapped the ball, but the ball didn't leave his hands.
Is that not a foul? Surely he overcarried?
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 29, 2019, 06:59:07 PM
Probably a silly question, but the extra ball on the pitch for the Tyrone Cassidy goal?
I didnt notice it at the game but watching back it looked like there was on in the bottom right corner alright
Question about the advantage rule. If a player is fouled in possession and within the 5 seconds (or whatever it is that the ref holds his hand up) the team manages to create a goal scoring opportunity and they miss - lets say, they hit the bar and the ball is cleared. Is that deemed as the advantage over as they where able to fashion a clear opportunity to score? Or is the only satisfactory advantageous outcome in that scenario a score, in which case the play is brought back for a free?
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2019, 02:37:25 PM
It's brought back. If you shoot and miss during the advantage, it is brought back for the free.
I disagree with the ruling btw.
Cheers, Yeah, i would have thought an opportunity to score a goal would have been more advantageous than a free kick for a point so the player has accrued his advantage from the play.
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 03, 2019, 02:46:02 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2019, 02:37:25 PM
It's brought back. If you shoot and miss during the advantage, it is brought back for the free.
I disagree with the ruling btw.
Cheers, Yeah, i would have thought an opportunity to score a goal would have been more advantageous than a free kick for a point so the player has accrued his advantage from the play.
you've 5 seconds to avail of said opportunity, it's a free go effectively. Miss and you get the free anyway.
If said opportunity is still on when the 5 seconds are up I'm sure most referees will take that into account and let the play develop but if it comes to nothing outside the 5 seconds then that's that.
I see nothing wrong with the rule and think its a good thing.
One for the hurling referees, Cian Lynch deliberately threw the ball onto the ground and caught the hop and played on. Tipp lads in my mind were right to ask why no free was awarded, but referee let him off with it.
What is the ruling there?
It's not as if he dropped it, it was a full throw.
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 03, 2019, 02:01:45 PM
Question about the advantage rule. If a player is fouled in possession and within the 5 seconds (or whatever it is that the ref holds his hand up) the team manages to create a goal scoring opportunity and they miss - lets say, they hit the bar and the ball is cleared. Is that deemed as the advantage over as they where able to fashion a clear opportunity to score? Or is the only satisfactory advantageous outcome in that scenario a score, in which case the play is brought back for a free?
I play it as, if the tackle has no bearing on the shot being hit and the player is in a more advantageous position and misses, I take it as take your oil.
If the tackle has put the player off their shot, or say the bad tackle/grope has put them into a wider position and goal and Misses, I bring them back for the free.
Quote from: theticklemister on July 03, 2019, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 03, 2019, 02:01:45 PM
Question about the advantage rule. If a player is fouled in possession and within the 5 seconds (or whatever it is that the ref holds his hand up) the team manages to create a goal scoring opportunity and they miss - lets say, they hit the bar and the ball is cleared. Is that deemed as the advantage over as they where able to fashion a clear opportunity to score? Or is the only satisfactory advantageous outcome in that scenario a score, in which case the play is brought back for a free?
I play it as, if the tackle has no bearing on the shot being hit and the player is in a more advantageous position and misses, I take it as take your oil.
If the tackle has put the player off their shot, or say the bad tackle/grope has put them into a wider position and goal and Misses, I bring them back for the free.
I'd agree with that but I've been told that that is not what referees are being told to do. If the goal chance is missed, in this scenario, then I think the ref can bring it back.
The way that you and I agree it should be applied is as it is applied in soccer.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2019, 04:12:10 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 03, 2019, 02:46:02 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2019, 02:37:25 PM
It's brought back. If you shoot and miss during the advantage, it is brought back for the free.
I disagree with the ruling btw.
Cheers, Yeah, i would have thought an opportunity to score a goal would have been more advantageous than a free kick for a point so the player has accrued his advantage from the play.
you've 5 seconds to avail of said opportunity, it's a free go effectively. Miss and you get the free anyway.
If said opportunity is still on when the 5 seconds are up I'm sure most referees will take that into account and let the play develop but if it comes to nothing outside the 5 seconds then that's that.
I see nothing wrong with the rule and think its a good thing.
One for the hurling referees, Cian Lynch deliberately threw the ball onto the ground and caught the hop and played on. Tipp lads in my mind were right to ask why no free was awarded, but referee let him off with it.
What is the ruling there?
It's not as if he dropped it, it was a full throw.
Watched and thought foul, he deliberately threw the ball down, now had he dropped it and took the bounce then fine, but I struggle with a couple of those grey areas. Deliberately dropping the ball to regain it and the throwing the ball on to your stick but missing it and regaining it, but by that action gaining space and ability to take extra hop on stick and steps!
As for the advantage rule it's 5 seconds (depending on ref) and advantage over, should he shoot within that and miss it's brought back. Some work out well others don't, can create a gurning session but thems the rules!
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2019, 02:37:25 PM
It's brought back. If you shoot and miss during the advantage, it is brought back for the free.
I disagree with the ruling btw.
gat
What's an even bigger bollix that if the player on the ball fouls during the 5s advantage time, it's a free out rather than just being pulled back for the free in
Why do some refs disallow headed goals?
Probably things boys are acting the ****
Boy they are legitimate
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 03, 2019, 09:58:57 PM
Why do some refs disallow headed goals?
Kieran Donaghy headed in a couple a few years back. One v Cork, another v Donegal I think. Unintentional headers, but still headers.
So, the two bounces rule.
Ball played to Paul Mannion. Before catching it, he bounced with both hands, caught it, then another bounce and into the hands again.
Is that classified as two bounces? As technically he hadnt had the ball in his hands on the first bounce?
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2019, 12:20:49 PM
So, the two bounces rule.
Ball played to Paul Mannion. Before catching it, he bounced with both hands, caught it, then another bounce and into the hands again.
Is that classified as two bounces? As technically he hadnt had the ball in his hands on the first bounce?
Page 63 of the rule book.
1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.
Legit by Mannion.
This does mean that a player could receive a pass and bounce it the length of the pitch as long as they didn't catch hold of it.
Fair enough, Ted.
Not a rule per se but an alleged practice by refs, yesterday Oisin as co commetator on RTE, after the last free was awarded, claimed that refs were definitely predisposed to granting the "GAA draw".
Is this really the case?
How could we give anything other than our own opinion on that unless one of us have been an intercounty referee who would be willing to give a precise answer??
For me, not for a game like the super8 where a draw is the end of it anyway. If it's a very close knock out game then possibly moreso
Another one here that might surprise people. You are only allowed take 4 steps in between bouncing/soloing the ball.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 23, 2019, 09:00:46 AM
Another one here that might surprise people. You are only allowed take 4 steps in between bouncing/soloing the ball.
After today's replay, surely it's time just to scrap the four steps rule altogether?
I mean, what's the point? Sure it's rarely enforced.
While they're at it, scrap the pick up as well. It's rarely enforced either.
Should it be changed to 6 steps seeing as that is the average amount taken and be a lot stricter on over-carrying. On the pick up thing, I find its actually slower to pick the ball of the ground than it is to put your toe under it and lift in correctly
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 23, 2019, 09:00:46 AM
Another one here that might surprise people. You are only allowed take 4 steps in between bouncing/soloing the ball.
Gone beyond a joke these days.
They might as well abolish the rule and allow the man to be tackled like in the 2 Rugbys and Aus Rules.
At least then the rule book could be adhered to.
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 14, 2019, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2019, 12:20:49 PM
So, the two bounces rule.
Ball played to Paul Mannion. Before catching it, he bounced with both hands, caught it, then another bounce and into the hands again.
Is that classified as two bounces? As technically he hadnt had the ball in his hands on the first bounce?
Page 63 of the rule book.
1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.
Legit by Mannion.
This does mean that a player could receive a pass and bounce it the length of the pitch as long as they didn't catch hold of it.
On that basis a player could control the ball with one hand and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 23, 2019, 09:00:46 AM
Another one here that might surprise people. You are only allowed take 4 steps in between bouncing/soloing the ball.
Without rules there's anacharcy. Has to be a rughy like system that calls back play. Goal should not have been allowed
Kevin McStay alluded to this, after O'Callaghan fouled Morley bearing down on goal. There needs to be appropriate punishment for preventing a goal scoring opportunity, like there is in soccer (red card).
Kerry only got a point from the Morley foul, and if Moran had pulled back Murchan in the same way, a yellow card and a point would be all that happened. As it turned out, the Murchan goal changed the game. A Morley goal for Kerry might have changed the game too.
The black card rule is a mess. A body check by a corner forward 100 metres from his own goal deemed more cynical than a jersey pull 20 metres out. A lot of these new innovations and rule changes are botched.
A lot of the rules are a mess - particularly around the black card.
However, it's the enforcement of the rules that is the biggest mess.
I'm not sure why the linesmen and umpires are not more actively involved in the officiating.
The nonsense that goes on off the ball is just deemed to be 'part of the game' - but the game is football and GAA rules should always be progressing to encourage good football instead of rewarding pulling and pushing and sledging.
Is a team allowed to change the goalkeepper to an outfield player if a penalty is awarded?? This is only a temporary change for the penalty kick.
Quote from: MC on September 17, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
A lot of the rules are a mess - particularly around the black card.
However, it's the enforcement of the rules that is the biggest mess.
I'm not sure why the linesmen and umpires are not more actively involved in the officiating.
The nonsense that goes on off the ball is just deemed to be 'part of the game' - but the game is football and GAA rules should always be progressing to encourage good football instead of rewarding pulling and pushing and sledging.
Whatever about linesmen, umpires are neither properly trained to make big calls, nor accountable for their mistakes. Even in an All Ireland final, they're the referee's relations and drinking buddies.
Quote from: timmyot501 on September 24, 2019, 10:44:45 AM
Is a team allowed to change the goalkeepper to an outfield player if a penalty is awarded?? This is only a temporary change for the penalty kick.
Not sure of its legality, but Nigel Dunne did this a month or so ago for Shamrocks v Rhode in an Offaly senior club game.
Quote from: timmyot501 on September 24, 2019, 10:44:45 AM
Is a team allowed to change the goalkeepper to an outfield player if a penalty is awarded?? This is only a temporary change for the penalty kick.
Yes - an outfield player can stand in goals for a penalty but if he wears the outfield jersey he can not expect the same benefits of a goalkeeper in regards lifting the ball off the ground in the small rectangle.
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on September 24, 2019, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on September 24, 2019, 10:44:45 AM
Is a team allowed to change the goalkeepper to an outfield player if a penalty is awarded?? This is only a temporary change for the penalty kick.
Yes - an outfield player can stand in goals for a penalty but if he wears the outfield jersey he can not expect the same benefits of a goalkeeper in regards lifting the ball off the ground in the small rectangle.
Can he have the benefits of a goalkeeper if he puts on the goalkeeper's jersey while facing the penalty?
Is there a rule saying he can't do that?
If a player receives a one match ban for a straight red can he come on in the next game if it goes to extra time, as its always claimed that (extra time) it's a new game
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 24, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Yes. It rolls over to next game ! No escaping the rules. Another example would be a player sent off at end of u21 age group but over age the next year , is banned from senior level match(es)
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 24, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Yes it rolls over! You can't escape the rules. Another example would be a player sent off in last eligible U 21 game ( over age the next year ) would have ban carried over to next senior game eligible to play in .
Quote from: delgany on September 25, 2019, 12:18:19 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 24, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Yes it rolls over! You can't escape the rules. Another example would be a player sent off in last eligible U 21 game ( over age the next year ) would have ban carried over to next senior game eligible to play in .
I'm not sure if you are banned from another grade the following year. So if a player in his last game at under 21 is sent off for a one match ban, I'm sure he can play the following year in first round of senior championship. But this is a CCC decision so it may be different to each county?
In Tyrone a red card match suspension is only applicable at that same level, for example; receive a red card in the senior championship in 2019 and your team loses, they are subsequently relegated via the league to intermediate for 2020 - red card doesn't carry down.
Using a League to decide Championship status seems odd.
What if the Senior Champions finish bottom of the League?
Tyrone operate 3 'Senior' leagues. Teams in Div1 play Senior championship, Div2 player Intermediate, Div3 play Junior.
Teams who win Junior Championship and Junior League are promoted from Div3 to Div2 . Teams who win Intermediate Championship and Intermediate League are promoted from Div2 to Div1. So in theory you can finish bottom of your league but get promoted by winning the Championship.
We also have 3 'Reserve' leagues but strangely your position in these leagues are determined by wherever your 'Senior' team plays.
Quote from: The Bearded One on September 25, 2019, 11:12:41 AM
Tyrone operate 3 'Senior' leagues. Teams in Div1 play Senior championship, Div2 player Intermediate, Div3 play Junior.
Teams who win Junior Championship and Junior League are promoted from Div3 to Div2 . Teams who win Intermediate Championship and Intermediate League are promoted from Div2 to Div1. So in theory you can finish bottom of your league but get promoted by winning the Championship.
We also have 3 'Reserve' leagues but strangely your position in these leagues are determined by wherever your 'Senior' team plays.
Happened Killyman in 2007
Quote from: delgany on September 25, 2019, 12:18:19 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 24, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Yes it rolls over! You can't escape the rules. Another example would be a player sent off in last eligible U 21 game ( over age the next year ) would have ban carried over to next senior game eligible to play in .
What is a player is sent off in Senior in his last game before retirement? Does he miss his first game for the over 40's or Masters football?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2019, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 25, 2019, 12:18:19 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 24, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Yes it rolls over! You can't escape the rules. Another example would be a player sent off in last eligible U 21 game ( over age the next year ) would have ban carried over to next senior game eligible to play in .
I'm not sure if you are banned from another grade the following year. So if a player in his last game at under 21 is sent off for a one match ban, I'm sure he can play the following year in first round of senior championship. But this is a CCC decision so it may be different to each county?
The rules are the same in every county. If you get sent off (match ban) but cannot serve the ban (if, for example you are overage next year and it's your team's last game in a competition) then the CCC should impose a two week ban for each match you should have served and can't serve.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 25, 2019, 12:36:29 PM
Just to add a little more meat to the last two posts...
Teams playing in the SFC play in Division 1 of the All County League, IFC teams play in Division 2 of the ACL, and JFC in Division 3.
A team that wins the SFC cannot be relegated as they have the right to defend their title. Should they finish in an automatic relegation or relegation play-off position in Division 1, the team finishing above them will take their place instead. However if they finish in the top four places in Division 1, they will have made the league semi finals.
A team that wins the IFC or JFC will be promoted to Division 1 or 2 respectively for the following season regardless of their final league position. In Division 2, an IFC winner finishing in a nominal relegation place, automatic or play-off, will not be subject to such (similar to the SFC above) as they have already achieved promotion to Division 1 and play in the SFC for next season.
A team winning the Senior, Intermediate or Junior football championship yet finish in a nominal relegation position in the corresponding league is very rare, but has happened. As blewuporstuffed mentioned, Killyman achieved this in 2007 - they went into the IFC final against Moortown knowing that were they to win, the following year they would play in the SFC and Division 1, but were they to lose they would play in the JFC and Division 3 instead - at that time they were already "technically" relegated in the league as they were bottom of the Division 2 table and could not obtain enough league points to escape, but no team is confirmed relegated until they are eliminated from the corresponding championship.
A team that wins the IFC or JFC and also their corresponding Division 2 or Division 3 league by finishing top of the table in the same season (there is no top four play-off for the title as there is in Division 1) means that the team that finishes in second place in the league gains automatic promotion.
In Divisions 2 & 3, the top four teams in the table excluding the two teams already promoted then compete in a two-round knockout play-off. In Divisions 1 & 2, excluding the SFC & IFC winners the team finishing bottom of the final table is automatically relegated, while the next two teams finishing above shall play-off against each other.
In the Division 2 & 3 promotion play off games, the two winning semi-finalists meet in a final, while in the relegation play-off game in Div 1 & Div 2, the losing team is relegated. The last of the four teams standing in the promotion play-offs and the winning team in the relegation play-off then meet in an interdivisional game (relegation Div 1 winner vs. promotion Div 2 winner, and relegation Div 2 winner vs. promotion Div 3 winner) - should the lower division team win the tie, they are promoted for the following season and the losing side is relegated, should the higher division team win, then both teams shall remain in their respective leagues & championship grade for the following season.
As "bearded one" also mentions, any club that has a second adult team (all bar one in 2019) competes in a corresponding reserve league and championship involving the same clubs that their first teams face - this is termed "reserve football" and operates parallel to the "senior football" league & championships, as such there is no promotion or relegation between divisions in reserve football in Tyrone (this may or may not be the same in neighbouring counties that also have reserve leagues & championships - the term "reserves" seems to be a mainly Ulster thing, and in Tyrone at least all first team sides in a club are referred to as "senior" even if they compete in the IFC or JFC). A team wishing to enter a third adult team can do so by entering them in the "senior" leagues & championships, initially in Division 3 in the league and playing in the JFC. These teams are referred to as "Thirds" - at present, only Errigal Ciaran field a Thirds team in Tyrone, and such is their playing numbers depth they also have a corresponding reserve team that is their fourth-level team, usually referred to as "Thirds reserves".
Hurling, given the much smaller number of adult clubs in the county, operates on a very different system.
Good explainer Fionntamhnach. Can you add how many teams are in each league division and how many league games are played with/without county players? Thanks.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 25, 2019, 12:36:29 PM
Just to add a little more meat to the last two posts...
Teams playing in the SFC play in Division 1 of the All County League, IFC teams play in Division 2 of the ACL, and JFC in Division 3.
A team that wins the SFC cannot be relegated as they have the right to defend their title. Should they finish in an automatic relegation or relegation play-off position in Division 1, the team finishing above them will take their place instead. However if they finish in the top four places in Division 1, they will have made the league semi finals.
A team that wins the IFC or JFC will be promoted to Division 1 or 2 respectively for the following season regardless of their final league position. In Division 2, an IFC winner finishing in a nominal relegation place, automatic or play-off, will not be subject to such (similar to the SFC above) as they have already achieved promotion to Division 1 and play in the SFC for next season.
A team winning the Senior, Intermediate or Junior football championship yet finish in a nominal relegation position in the corresponding league is very rare, but has happened. As blewuporstuffed mentioned, Killyman achieved this in 2007 - they went into the IFC final against Moortown knowing that were they to win, the following year they would play in the SFC and Division 1, but were they to lose they would play in the JFC and Division 3 instead - at that time they were already "technically" relegated in the league as they were bottom of the Division 2 table and could not obtain enough league points to escape, but no team is confirmed relegated until they are eliminated from the corresponding championship.
A team that wins the IFC or JFC and also their corresponding Division 2 or Division 3 league by finishing top of the table in the same season (there is no top four play-off for the title as there is in Division 1) means that the team that finishes in second place in the league gains automatic promotion.
In Divisions 2 & 3, the top four teams in the table excluding the two teams already promoted then compete in a two-round knockout play-off. In Divisions 1 & 2, excluding the SFC & IFC winners the team finishing bottom of the final table is automatically relegated, while the next two teams finishing above shall play-off against each other.
In the Division 2 & 3 promotion play off games, the two winning semi-finalists meet in a final, while in the relegation play-off game in Div 1 & Div 2, the losing team is relegated. The last of the four teams standing in the promotion play-offs and the winning team in the relegation play-off then meet in an interdivisional game (relegation Div 1 winner vs. promotion Div 2 winner, and relegation Div 2 winner vs. promotion Div 3 winner) - should the lower division team win the tie, they are promoted for the following season and the losing side is relegated, should the higher division team win, then both teams shall remain in their respective leagues & championship grade for the following season.
As "bearded one" also mentions, any club that has a second adult team (all bar one in 2019) competes in a corresponding reserve league and championship involving the same clubs that their first teams face - this is termed "reserve football" and operates parallel to the "senior football" league & championships, as such there is no promotion or relegation between divisions in reserve football in Tyrone (this may or may not be the same in neighbouring counties that also have reserve leagues & championships - the term "reserves" seems to be a mainly Ulster thing, and in Tyrone at least all first team sides in a club are referred to as "senior" even if they compete in the IFC or JFC). A team wishing to enter a third adult team can do so by entering them in the "senior" leagues & championships, initially in Division 3 in the league and playing in the JFC. These teams are referred to as "Thirds" - at present, only Errigal Ciaran field a Thirds team in Tyrone, and such is their playing numbers depth they also have a corresponding reserve team that is their fourth-level team, usually referred to as "Thirds reserves".
Hurling, given the much smaller number of adult clubs in the county, operates on a very different system.
Good explainer Fionntamhnach. Can you add how many teams are in each league division and how many league games are played with/without county players? Thanks.
Currently it is 16 Senior, 16 Intermediate and 17 Junior. Nice round numbers for the Senior & Intermediate Championship draws. Teams play each other once in the league (15,15 & 16 games respectively). 5 of those will be designated starred games where teams play without their County players meaning County players are available for 10 league games.
For the starred games the fixtures committee tries to pair off teams with similar numbers of County players.
Armagh is slightly similar, except the grades are split in two for league football: Senior A and Senior B; Intermediate A and Intermediate B; and Junior (junior used to be split but a number of teams withdrew so it is now just a 14 team league).
16 teams in Senior football; 16 in intermediate; 14 in junior. Winning intermediate or junior championship ensures promotion as does finishing first or second in your league section; unless you finish second and a team below you wins the championship. So for example there is a team in the intermediate B league, who finished third. They have reached the championship final; should they win they'll be Senior B league for 2020, skipping a league.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2019, 12:36:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2019, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 25, 2019, 12:18:19 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 24, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Yes it rolls over! You can't escape the rules. Another example would be a player sent off in last eligible U 21 game ( over age the next year ) would have ban carried over to next senior game eligible to play in .
I'm not sure if you are banned from another grade the following year. So if a player in his last game at under 21 is sent off for a one match ban, I'm sure he can play the following year in first round of senior championship. But this is a CCC decision so it may be different to each county?
The rules are the same in every county. If you get sent off (match ban) but cannot serve the ban (if, for example you are overage next year and it's your team's last game in a competition) then the CCC should impose a two week ban for each match you should have served and can't serve.
Should or do? I believe you should miss the next round of the competition that you're intitled to play in, so in effect he could play a reserve championship game and that may get him off if the club does not grade him..
There are many loopholes I'm sure and there are as many theories people believe to be true..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2019, 01:51:42 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2019, 12:36:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2019, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 25, 2019, 12:18:19 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 24, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Yes it rolls over! You can't escape the rules. Another example would be a player sent off in last eligible U 21 game ( over age the next year ) would have ban carried over to next senior game eligible to play in .
I'm not sure if you are banned from another grade the following year. So if a player in his last game at under 21 is sent off for a one match ban, I'm sure he can play the following year in first round of senior championship. But this is a CCC decision so it may be different to each county?
The rules are the same in every county. If you get sent off (match ban) but cannot serve the ban (if, for example you are overage next year and it's your team's last game in a competition) then the CCC should impose a two week ban for each match you should have served and can't serve.
Should or do? I believe you should miss the next round of the competition that you're intitled to play in, so in effect he could play a reserve championship game and that may get him off if the club does not grade him..
There are many loopholes I'm sure and there are as many theories people believe to be true..
Match bans are in the same competition. Always. If it is not possible to serve a match ban in the same competition (even if it's the following year) then a two week suspension should/must be imposed for each match ban that can't be served, e.g. if it's 2 matches, it's 4 weeks. It's clearly stated in the rulebook.
Like many things with rules there are theories and commonly held views that are not true.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 25, 2019, 01:13:12 PM
There are 48 GAA clubs in Tyrone that field at least one mens senior football team.
There are 16 teams in both Divisions 1 & 2, and 17 teams in Division 3 with the inclusion of Errigal Ciaran Thirds. As it is a single round robin league, then teams in Divisions 1 & 2 play 15 games, while in Division 3 it is 16.
During the course of the normal league system, there are a number of "starred" rounds whereby should the Tyrone senior football team still be in competitive action, starred club games are fixed where county players are not expected to line out for their club in that round of fixtures. Not 100% sure how many starred rounds there are in Tyrone in 2019, I think it's six, leaving nine rounds where county players are free to play for their clubs. Not an issue in Division 3 this year with no one on the county panel being from a junior ranked club.
As much as possible, the Tyrone CCC will make starred rounds as such so that teams facing each other will both have players on the county panel and that they have an equal penalisation in such players not being available to them. However should a player leave the county panel after all the rounds have been announced, they are not prevented from playing in those starred rounds.
In my vastly overpaid opinion, I think it's an utter hodge podge of a system, but there seems to be little will within the county for any significant change to the present structures for senior & reserve football in Tyrone.
In the past there used to be some subsidiary & preseason competitions - these have not been run now for some years due to poor reception and interest by many clubs.
It's a little complicated but I can understand the reluctance to change it. The CCC in Tyrone have a tough job! I think leagues in some counties where they're not linked to championship have really had their value diluted. However I understand breaking that link due to unavailability of county players hampering some clubs. There's a fair balance there in Tyrone. Interesting. Thanks for the explanations from yourself and the others who contributed.
Jases it's no wonder Tyronies have chips on their shoulders with that complicated League/Championship hodge podge ;D
In Ros the Leagues are totally separate and have no bearing on Championship status.
5 Divisions in the AFLs with D4 and D 5 being mainly B teams.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 25, 2019, 12:36:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2019, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 25, 2019, 12:18:19 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on September 24, 2019, 11:53:31 PM
If a player receives a red card and a one match ban for the next championship game, but in that next game the opposition concede, does the players ban roll on to the next game?
Yes it rolls over! You can't escape the rules. Another example would be a player sent off in last eligible U 21 game ( over age the next year ) would have ban carried over to next senior game eligible to play in .
I'm not sure if you are banned from another grade the following year. So if a player in his last game at under 21 is sent off for a one match ban, I'm sure he can play the following year in first round of senior championship. But this is a CCC decision so it may be different to each county?
The rules are the same in every county. If you get sent off (match ban) but cannot serve the ban (if, for example you are overage next year and it's your team's last game in a competition) then the CCC should impose a two week ban for each match you should have served and can't serve.
That is my take on it as well.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 25, 2019, 03:58:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 25, 2019, 03:30:23 PM
Jases it's no wonder Tyronies have chips on their shoulders with that complicated League/Championship hodge podge ;D
It's not that complicated. I just enjoy giving explanations that are (mostly) clear and explanatory to those whom are smart or intelligent enough in wanting to really understand something, yet look complicated to buck eejits. ;D ;D ;D
I Suppose it all depends on what your used to, I always switched off when other counties started explained their system thinking it was over complicated and stupid.
Anyway I like Kerry's divisional system as it would give the best players a chance at playing against each other. There are clubs of various sizes and hence abilities in Tyrone and its obviously not fair that a decent player from a wee place like Fintona will never have a chance of playing senior championship unlike his neighbours in over crowded Tattyreagh.
https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1183087525679845376?s=20
The steps rule really needs sorting out.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 25, 2019, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 25, 2019, 03:58:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 25, 2019, 03:30:23 PM
Jases it's no wonder Tyronies have chips on their shoulders with that complicated League/Championship hodge podge ;D
It's not that complicated. I just enjoy giving explanations that are (mostly) clear and explanatory to those whom are smart or intelligent enough in wanting to really understand something, yet look complicated to buck eejits. ;D ;D ;D
I Suppose it all depends on what your used to, I always switched off when other counties started explained their system thinking it was over complicated and stupid.
Anyway I like Kerry's divisional system as it would give the best players a chance at playing against each other. There are clubs of various sizes and hence abilities in Tyrone and its obviously not fair that a decent player from a wee place like Fintona will never have a chance of playing senior championship unlike his neighbours in over crowded Tattyreagh.
They could always transfer to Dromore!
Quote from: Nanderson on October 12, 2019, 07:35:55 PM
https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1183087525679845376?s=20
The steps rule really needs sorting out.
Or just applied by referees . . .
Quote from: screenexile on October 14, 2019, 04:06:52 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on October 12, 2019, 07:35:55 PM
https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1183087525679845376?s=20
The steps rule really needs sorting out.
Or just applied by referees . . .
It should just be four seconds regardless. Tall players four steps will take you further than someone of my height! It's not fair ;)
Not much talk here about the new football Rules proposed for the Special Congress coming up on Saturday!!
Kick outs from the 20. The sideways kick out will come back into vogue again I fear.
"Offensive" mark. Expect some very vague measurements of 20m by Referees.
Sin Bin for black cards. Probably lead to more use of the black.
Titanic and deckchairs come to mind.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 15, 2019, 12:31:25 PM
Titanic and deckchairs come to mind.
There's more to GAA than the Senior Football Intercounty competitions.
Does anyone know the rules about postponing a game due to injury? Is it up to the referee?
In the last week we've had 2 underage championship games in Derry with 2 lads stretchered off.
U16 semi final, 6 mins left, 1 point in it. Game called off. Post game the word is Jaw injury - not confirmed.
Minor final, 27 mins left, 3 points in it. Game continued after a 15 minute break. Post game the word is back/spine injury.
No updates on the condition of either player but I'd hope they make a full recovery obviously.
The cancellation of one and continuation of the other confuses me given the circumstances.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 15, 2019, 11:14:25 AM
Not much talk here about the new football Rules proposed for the Special Congress coming up on Saturday!!
Kick outs from the 20. The sideways kick out will come back into vogue again I fear.
"Offensive" mark. Expect some very vague measurements of 20m by Referees.
Sin Bin for black cards. Probably lead to more use of the black.
gging on last year they will make little difference .
not sure about he offensive mark . I feel some half assed manger will make his nameby concentrating on it and go a long way til its found out and hes be shown to be a one trick pony .
it should be make clear its a mark and not a free kick Ir much less time to take it and not the full monty of a routine.
BTW who has the longest build up to a free in the current game? Murphy? dean Rock?
Quote from: Link on October 15, 2019, 02:26:18 PM
Does anyone know the rules about postponing a game due to injury? Is it up to the referee?
In the last week we've had 2 underage championship games in Derry with 2 lads stretchered off.
U16 semi final, 6 mins left, 1 point in it. Game called off. Post game the word is Jaw injury - not confirmed.
Minor final, 27 mins left, 3 points in it. Game continued after a 15 minute break. Post game the word is back/spine injury.
No updates on the condition of either player but I'd hope they make a full recovery obviously.
The cancellation of one and continuation of the other confuses me given the circumstances.
At the referees discretion I'd assume. I'd an air ambulance called for a game, one wanted it off, and the other was willing to stay on, that was the winning team looking to stay on the pitch! I said lets give it some time, (no more than 20 mins) and it was all sorted play resummed
Totally up to the referee's discretion.
Can't believe the forward mark was passed. Teams will get even more defensive.
Sun bin will be hard to manage for the refs at club level.
The Club Refs will need to bring a load of alarm clocks ;D
Or as is more likely will use the black card very sparingly.
And there will be some time wasting by teams while they're down to 14 men.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2019, 11:31:25 PM
The Club Refs will need to bring a load of alarm clocks ;D
Or as is more likely will use the black card very sparingly.
And there will be some time wasting by teams while they're down to 14 men.
Just stop the sinbin clock if there's time wasting! ;)
I like the introduction of the Sin Bin but it still doesn't change the issues referees have implementing rules.
Quote from: Solo_run on October 20, 2019, 10:04:27 PM
I like the introduction of the Sin Bin but it still doesn't change the issues referees have implementing rules.
As far as I'm concerned all this does is reduces the punishment for foul play while increasing the motivation for teams to waste time. Lunacy to think this will improve things.
Taken directly from the GAA.ie website
QuoteThe rationale behind this motion is to reduce a rise in cynical play and 'professional' fouling by implementing a penalty 'on the day' that encourages behavioural change.
The horror show that is this sentence is beyond belief - "to reduce a rise in cynical play" by "implementing a penalty 'on the day' that encourages behavioural change"
This complete and utter bullshit bingo says a world about how strong an argument whoever came up with this would be able to make as to why this rule would improve matters.
Previously if a player committed a black card offence that was the end of their involvement in the game.
Now instead for the same offences they face a maximum of ten minutes on the bench - chances are that it will be more like 6/7/8 minutes for most players and it's actually possible that if an injury occurs a player who receives a black card could miss zero actual action in a game. Think about that and what it says about how badly designed a rule this is.
I don't have any stats but I'd imagine that if you looked at when black cards were issued previously a huge majority of them were in the later minutes of games - clearly players were smart/streetwise enough to not commit offences early in games. This sin bin change reduces the disincentive to commit a pull down when a player is through on goals early on in games.
Any manager worth his salt will be telling his players - lads if a player is through on goal, one-on-one with the keeper, don't worry too much about committing a black card offence, it's far easier to cope with going down to 14 men for a few minutes compared to conceding a goal.
The rule also gives an incentive for teams to slow down play/time waste when down to 14. Expect to see players taking the maximum possible time when taking sideline balls, free kicks, kickouts plus maximising the time taken over substitutions and injuries. Super double whammy of stupid.
If you want players to stop committing cynical fouls, you need to increase the punishment for committing cynical fouls, not decrease it.
For the sin bin the small piece I read is the player binned can't come back on. I don't think managers or players will be happy to be binned.
Maybe they should've made it for the time it takes the unbinned team to get say 5 points or more. No time wasting then and would lead to open play. Once the team gets the 5 points or 1-2 or 2-0 then the opposition player comes back on.
Quote from: highorlow on October 22, 2019, 08:30:57 AM
For the sin bin the small piece I read is the player binned can't come back on. I don't think managers or players will be happy to be binned.
Maybe they should've made it for the time it takes the unbinned team to get say 5 points or more. No time wasting then and would lead to open play. Once the team gets the 5 points or 1-2 or 2-0 then the opposition player comes back on.
unbinned team stick to 4 points (unless they're still getting beat) and don't bother going for the extra score....
As Mr Dodds would say you can drive a coach and horses through that rule if implemented.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 22, 2019, 10:34:55 AM
Quote from: highorlow on October 22, 2019, 08:30:57 AM
For the sin bin the small piece I read is the player binned can't come back on. I don't think managers or players will be happy to be binned.
Maybe they should've made it for the time it takes the unbinned team to get say 5 points or more. No time wasting then and would lead to open play. Once the team gets the 5 points or 1-2 or 2-0 then the opposition player comes back on.
unbinned team stick to 4 points (unless they're still getting beat) and don't bother going for the extra score....
As Mr Dodds would say you can drive a coach and horses through that rule if implemented.
I've noticed games in football that finished 0-05 0-04!
Everyone looking at the negatives, let the refs (with their ten extra watch's) allocate the right time based on time of ball in play, the team can time waste all they want providing the ref adds the time
Apparently it has been researched and for every 10 minute period that a team is down to 14 against the opponents 15, the expected score in that time is almost 2 points favourable to the team with the extra player. The current black card is no punishment to the team, especially the team with a strong bench. Think this was a no brainer to introduce and the yellow card will go the same way shortly (black card will be re-absorbed back into yellow card).
Advanced mark is the one I cannot understand. Can't see any reason for it - what it's trying to combat or achieve.
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 22, 2019, 12:22:02 PM
Apparently it has been researched and for every 10 minute period that a team is down to 14 against the opponents 15, the expected score in that time is almost 2 points favourable to the team with the extra player. The current black card is no punishment to the team, especially the team with a strong bench. Think this was a no brainer to introduce and the yellow card will go the same way shortly (black card will be re-absorbed back into yellow card).
Advanced mark is the one I cannot understand. Can't see any reason for it - what it's trying to combat or achieve.
The advance Mark is going to be a nightmare for your club refs!
A pile of shite. Who are these f**king idiots and when is the last time they played football?
Usual GAA stuff, no one objects to a proposed rule, then it gets passed and everyone starts moaning about it.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2019, 02:55:04 PM
Usual GAA stuff, no one objects to a proposed rule, then it gets passed and everyone starts moaning about it.
Yes, but the vast majority of GAA folk don't get to vote at Congress.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2019, 02:55:04 PM
Usual GAA stuff, no one objects to a proposed rule, then it gets passed and everyone starts moaning about it.
It's stupid though. I'm all for our sport evolving positively but at this stage these morons are just making changes for the sake of it. I can't think of one rule brought in over the last 20 years that actually made any difference in improving the game either as a player or a spectator. Who the f**k decides whether it's 20m or not!? Referees have enough on their plate. It's going to be more hassle than what it's worth.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/black-card-could-become-a-thing-of-the-past-963539.html
Player intentionally for all the world to see goes and and tries to trip a player, misses, player runs run.
Attack comes to nothing.
What you do?
Quote from: theticklemister on November 16, 2019, 05:01:03 PM
Player intentionally for all the world to see goes and and tries to trip a player, misses, player runs run.
Attack comes to nothing.
What you do?
No foul occurred so play on?
Quote from: hardstation on November 16, 2019, 05:21:48 PM
Attempted kick, with minimal force. Red card.
I hope you're not a ref!
So I've now seen Refs allowing a defender to call a mark when they win the ball in their own 45.....so is there such a thing?
Yes, once it's from a kick over 20m from outside the 45.
Quote from: tyroneman on January 14, 2020, 11:58:40 AM
So I've now seen Refs allowing a defender to call a mark when they win the ball in their own 45.....so is there such a thing?
Is this a forward mark? or a mark from when the keeper kicks the ball ?
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 22, 2019, 12:22:02 PM
Apparently it has been researched and for every 10 minute period that a team is down to 14 against the opponents 15, the expected score in that time is almost 2 points favourable to the team with the extra player. The current black card is no punishment to the team, especially the team with a strong bench. Think this was a no brainer to introduce and the yellow card will go the same way shortly (black card will be re-absorbed back into yellow card).
Advanced mark is the one I cannot understand. Can't see any reason for it - what it's trying to combat or achieve.
Well I wouldve thought it was simple enough, its trying to encourage teams to play early long balls and increasing the reward for doing so with a free kick at goal and I suppose as part of that trying to get teams to push up on the kicker more which in turns unlocks the blankets somewhat. Whether it is successful or not I am not sure.
Fella gets son binned on 15 th minute. He's off for ten minutes. During this time there is a 5 minute delay. Do you bring the fella who got win binned back on at 25 minutes?
Yes , its 10 minutes from when the ref restarted play after the sin binning.
A charter for cynicism and cheating I fear.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2020, 07:49:37 PM
Yes , its 10 minutes from when the ref restarted play after the sin binning.
A charter for cynicism and cheating I fear.
Yip
It's simple he's off the field for ten mins of play! If a team wants to fart about during that period the clock is stopped as normal and the player will come back on after the ref has decided the ten minutes of actual sin binning has occurred.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2020, 08:24:45 PM
It's simple he's off the field for ten mins of play! If a team wants to fart about during that period the clock is stopped as normal and the player will come back on after the ref has decided the ten minutes of actual sin binning has occurred.
Are you sure? If been trying to verify this but can't anywhere
Quote from: theticklemister on January 14, 2020, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2020, 08:24:45 PM
It's simple he's off the field for ten mins of play! If a team wants to fart about during that period the clock is stopped as normal and the player will come back on after the ref has decided the ten minutes of actual sin binning has occurred.
Are you sure? If been trying to verify this but can't anywhere
I was told, but I've in house training for refs on Monday, it'll be covered then, let's just say if I'm refereeing, the player sin binned won't be coming til ten minutes of play has been done. Teams can fart about as much as they want
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2020, 09:03:13 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 14, 2020, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2020, 08:24:45 PM
It's simple he's off the field for ten mins of play! If a team wants to fart about during that period the clock is stopped as normal and the player will come back on after the ref has decided the ten minutes of actual sin binning has occurred.
Are you sure? If been trying to verify this but can't anywhere
I was told, but I've in house training for refs on Monday, it'll be covered then, let's just say if I'm refereeing, the player sin binned won't be coming til ten minutes of play has been done. Teams can fart about as much as they want
When I referee the ladies, I write down the time I sin bin the player and if any minutes needed to be added on in that time, I do so.
Regarding verification, you would think these would be issued on the official gaa.ie to everyone to see. But like some of the GAA rules , there is total ambiguity.
The stop clock is obviously the only way to insure the 10 minutes are served. And to prevent cheating and running Down the clock.
At county level anyway. More difficult at club level.
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2020, 09:42:32 PM
The stop clock is obviously the only way to insure the 10 minutes are served. And to prevent cheating and running Down the clock.
At county level anyway. More difficult at club level.
Two watches, or use your note book as theticklemister said
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2020, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2020, 09:42:32 PM
The stop clock is obviously the only way to insure the 10 minutes are served. And to prevent cheating and running Down the clock.
At county level anyway. More difficult at club level.
Two watches, or use your note book as theticklemister said
That gives more work for referees though. They've enough to do. Timekeeping should be taken from the ref.
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2020, 10:15:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2020, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 14, 2020, 09:42:32 PM
The stop clock is obviously the only way to insure the 10 minutes are served. And to prevent cheating and running Down the clock.
At county level anyway. More difficult at club level.
Two watches, or use your note book as theticklemister said
That gives more work for referees though. They've enough to do. Timekeeping should be taken from the ref.
At club level it won't be (timekeeping taken away) it's daft to apply this at all levels at clubs, inter county they've 4th official to keep it sorted. The forward mark alone is crazy at club level especially at juvenile level, just get your big play to play on the 21 and boot the ball in!
Don't see the benefit on how it will improve the game
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Forward mark rule kick must be played before the 45 and travel 20 meters and the player MUST make a hand in air sign.
He's 15 seconds to play ball, it's a clean catch Mark called, should he not and tries to take a mark he'll be done for over carrying, players can tackle straight away for a forward mark should he want to play on. Oh and if a defender/keeper catches that forward Mark he can have it by making the sign for a mark, a raised hand.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Thanks MR2
Just to be clear, is this one senior man's opinion on how the 10 mins should be implemented, or did he get it from some official source?
Didn't it say that in explanatory notes issued by the GAA for the special Congress?
I recall reading it somewhere back then.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Forward mark rule kick must be played before the 45 and travel 20 meters and the player MUST make a hand in air sign.
He's 15 seconds to play ball, it's a clean catch Mark called, should he not and tries to take a mark he'll be done for over carrying, players can tackle straight away for a forward mark should he want to play on. Oh and if a defender/keeper catches that forward Mark he can have it by making the sign for a mark, a raised hand.
Yeah but my understanding is that, like the existing mark, the player is allowed 4 steps or the length of time to travel 4 steps before they can be tackled ( providing he is outside the large rectangle)
It is not clear what is allowed if he cleanly catches it outside the rectangle but arrives in the rectangle within 4 steps and has not had the opportunity to raise his hand before been met by the wall of defenders stationed just inside the large rectangle
or how a player will make a clean catch inside the rectangle and manage to hold on to the ball while been tackled by multiple players and simultaneously raise his hand to claim the mark. Then somehow clear the 13 yards in front of him within 15 secs so that he can take the kick.
... expect loads of moaning and plenty of refereeing inconsistencies for a while on this one.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Forward mark rule kick must be played before the 45 and travel 20 meters and the player MUST make a hand in air sign.
He's 15 seconds to play ball, it's a clean catch Mark called, should he not and tries to take a mark he'll be done for over carrying, players can tackle straight away for a forward mark should he want to play on. Oh and if a defender/keeper catches that forward Mark he can have it by making the sign for a mark, a raised hand.
Can't wait to get back to the refereeing this year! :-\
Although as a dual referee I can see myself turning down football games in favour of hurling
Are there any posters of images which show clearly these new rules? Anything sent out from HQ?
You cant have an advance mark from a kick out mark.
If the advanced mark is inside the large rectangle , you can tackle immediately.
Reading the changes , I believe there are too many permutations to interpret at club level!
Quote from: Hound on January 21, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Thanks MR2
Just to be clear, is this one senior man's opinion on how the 10 mins should be implemented, or did he get it from some official source?
That's the way it was reffed last year
Quote from: Hound on January 21, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Thanks MR2
Just to be clear, is this one senior man's opinion on how the 10 mins should be implemented, or did he get it from some official source?
Was discussed at length last night, I'd prefer to stop the watch but not allowed, so any injuries in that period you can use your discretion as to whether they are taking the piss and play on, has to be a head injury or a dangerous one. Player can only come on after ten minutes then a break in play, can't come on beforehand or he'll receive a yellow, a black and yellow is a red!
Quote from: Dabh on January 21, 2020, 02:27:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Forward mark rule kick must be played before the 45 and travel 20 meters and the player MUST make a hand in air sign.
He's 15 seconds to play ball, it's a clean catch Mark called, should he not and tries to take a mark he'll be done for over carrying, players can tackle straight away for a forward mark should he want to play on. Oh and if a defender/keeper catches that forward Mark he can have it by making the sign for a mark, a raised hand.
Yeah but my understanding is that, like the existing mark, the player is allowed 4 steps or the length of time to travel 4 steps before they can be tackled ( providing he is outside the large rectangle)
It is not clear what is allowed if he cleanly catches it outside the rectangle but arrives in the rectangle within 4 steps and has not had the opportunity to raise his hand before been met by the wall of defenders stationed just inside the large rectangle
or how a player will make a clean catch inside the rectangle and manage to hold on to the ball while been tackled by multiple players and simultaneously raise his hand to claim the mark. Then somehow clear the 13 yards in front of him within 15 secs so that he can take the kick.
... expect loads of moaning and plenty of refereeing inconsistencies for a while on this one.
He must raise his arm, if a defender is refusing him (pulling his arm) it's a free anyways then any player can take the free and from the ground should he wish. Catch clean n the box the 15 seconds starts from when he raises his hand, I'm sure if he's being manhandled it could be another free but he should be able to play ball
Quote from: Dabh on January 21, 2020, 02:27:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Forward mark rule kick must be played before the 45 and travel 20 meters and the player MUST make a hand in air sign.
He's 15 seconds to play ball, it's a clean catch Mark called, should he not and tries to take a mark he'll be done for over carrying, players can tackle straight away for a forward mark should he want to play on. Oh and if a defender/keeper catches that forward Mark he can have it by making the sign for a mark, a raised hand.
Yeah but my understanding is that, like the existing mark, the player is allowed 4 steps or the length of time to travel 4 steps before they can be tackled ( providing he is outside the large rectangle)
It is not clear what is allowed if he cleanly catches it outside the rectangle but arrives in the rectangle within 4 steps and has not had the opportunity to raise his hand before been met by the wall of defenders stationed just inside the large rectangle
or how a player will make a clean catch inside the rectangle and manage to hold on to the ball while been tackled by multiple players and simultaneously raise his hand to claim the mark. Then somehow clear the 13 yards in front of him within 15 secs so that he can take the kick.
... expect loads of moaning and plenty of refereeing inconsistencies for a while on this one.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/referees-briefed-on-clarifications-to-advanced-mark-and-sin-bin-rule-976864.html
'large rectangle exception' is apparently now gone....
Quote from: Dabh on January 22, 2020, 11:05:12 AM
Quote from: Dabh on January 21, 2020, 02:27:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Sin bin is ten minutes regardless of delays like injuries during that period.
Forward mark rule kick must be played before the 45 and travel 20 meters and the player MUST make a hand in air sign.
He's 15 seconds to play ball, it's a clean catch Mark called, should he not and tries to take a mark he'll be done for over carrying, players can tackle straight away for a forward mark should he want to play on. Oh and if a defender/keeper catches that forward Mark he can have it by making the sign for a mark, a raised hand.
Yeah but my understanding is that, like the existing mark, the player is allowed 4 steps or the length of time to travel 4 steps before they can be tackled ( providing he is outside the large rectangle)
It is not clear what is allowed if he cleanly catches it outside the rectangle but arrives in the rectangle within 4 steps and has not had the opportunity to raise his hand before been met by the wall of defenders stationed just inside the large rectangle
or how a player will make a clean catch inside the rectangle and manage to hold on to the ball while been tackled by multiple players and simultaneously raise his hand to claim the mark. Then somehow clear the 13 yards in front of him within 15 secs so that he can take the kick.
... expect loads of moaning and plenty of refereeing inconsistencies for a while on this one.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/referees-briefed-on-clarifications-to-advanced-mark-and-sin-bin-rule-976864.html
'large rectangle exception' is apparently now gone....
Believe it or not, the trainers who gave us the rules info on Monday got an email on the way up to the hotel to say they had a new update on the rules
Who the f**k has seen these rules released today. Oh living Jesus !!
10 minute sin binning does not include stoppages what the f**k
Quote from: theticklemister on January 22, 2020, 05:05:41 PM
10 minute sin binning does not include stoppages what the f**k
This was always the proposal.
Can't help but think it came from some of the same folk who binned the hooter system and gave the cost of having a clock as one of their reasons for doing so.
When you look at the makeup of the Standing Rules Committee, it's no wonder what a dog's dinner they have made of these new rules.
I'm half convinced that some of the hurling folk on the committee are doing all they can to muck up Gaelic football as much as possible.
In a way that's almost a kinder interpretation than the alternative that they did not actually think about how this rules would actually work on a pitch.
Quote from: theticklemister on January 22, 2020, 05:05:41 PM
10 minute sin binning does not include stoppages what the f**k
Where are you getting that from? In the Irish Times link above, it says:
"The time period in the sin bin shall be of 10 minutes duration irrespective of delays"
Isn't that the same as it was last year for the league?
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2020, 08:26:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 22, 2020, 05:05:41 PM
10 minute sin binning does not include stoppages what the f**k
Where are you getting that from? In the Irish Times link above, it says:
"The time period in the sin bin shall be of 10 minutes duration irrespective of delays"
Isn't that the same as it was last year for the league?
Yeah irrespective of delays. So if a guy is sinbinned in the 17th minute and there is an injury for 5 minutes on the 22nd minute, he is then free to wonder on in the 27th minute and there has only been 5 minutes of actual play
What's the alternative though? One that will work in every game up and down the country? 4 or 5 watches for each ref?
Quote from: theticklemister on January 22, 2020, 08:29:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2020, 08:26:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 22, 2020, 05:05:41 PM
10 minute sin binning does not include stoppages what the f**k
Where are you getting that from? In the Irish Times link above, it says:
"The time period in the sin bin shall be of 10 minutes duration irrespective of delays"
Isn't that the same as it was last year for the league?
Yeah irrespective of delays. So if a guy is sinbinned in the 17th minute and there is an injury for 5 minutes on the 22nd minute, he is then free to wonder on in the 27th minute and there has only been 5 minutes of actual play
Sorry, I thought you were saying the opposite.
Anything else would be difficult to implement but it definitely lends itself to play acting. How does women's football work it? I guess they have the clock, does that stop for injuries?
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 22, 2020, 09:22:55 PM
What's the alternative though? One that will work in every game up and down the country? 4 or 5 watches for each ref?
Remove the sin bin.
Wave the old black card with gay abandon for cynical play, including diving and feigning injury, and for any verbals to the referee.
Watch our sport then grow a set.
The old black car wasn't perfect. But mainly because it wasn't applied properly.
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2020, 09:49:20 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 22, 2020, 08:29:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2020, 08:26:07 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on January 22, 2020, 05:05:41 PM
10 minute sin binning does not include stoppages what the f**k
Where are you getting that from? In the Irish Times link above, it says:
"The time period in the sin bin shall be of 10 minutes duration irrespective of delays"
Isn't that the same as it was last year for the league?
Yeah irrespective of delays. So if a guy is sinbinned in the 17th minute and there is an injury for 5 minutes on the 22nd minute, he is then free to wonder on in the 27th minute and there has only been 5 minutes of actual play
Sorry, I thought you were saying the opposite.
Anything else would be difficult to implement but it definitely lends itself to play acting. How does women's football work it? I guess they have the clock, does that stop for injuries?
I referee ladies football here in Britain, both domestically and provincially. We don't have a clock, but I take into consideration the time I yellow card a player. I write down the time in my notebook of the dismissal and I am then conscience of extra time to be added in the next ten minutes and add it on
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 22, 2020, 09:22:55 PM
What's the alternative though? One that will work in every game up and down the country? 4 or 5 watches for each ref?
Black card = off to the end of the half or rest of game if in second half...too simple?
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 22, 2020, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 22, 2020, 09:22:55 PM
What's the alternative though? One that will work in every game up and down the country? 4 or 5 watches for each ref?
Black card = off to the end of the half or rest of game if in second half...too simple?
It's ten minutes, if black carded on 22 minutes it'll be 10 minutes later, 2 minutes into second half (after first break of play) or if ref plays a minute it's the after the first minute of second half
How are officials for club games going to keep track of 2 or 3 players in sin bin?
Worse still, at under age level?!
Quote from: BennyCake on January 22, 2020, 11:16:30 PM
How are officials for club games going to keep track of 2 or 3 players in sin bin?
Worse still, at under age level?!
The new score cards have a part for the sin bin, time written down of offence, quick glance at watch will alert you. Should be fine, it's the moaning though that'll be a pest, I'd only a few black cards all season so I doubt it will be much more than normal, though a big push for verbal abuse to referees will see the card used more often I suspect
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 10:36:37 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 22, 2020, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 22, 2020, 09:22:55 PM
What's the alternative though? One that will work in every game up and down the country? 4 or 5 watches for each ref?
Black card = off to the end of the half or rest of game if in second half...too simple?
It's ten minutes, if black carded on 22 minutes it'll be 10 minutes later, 2 minutes into second half (after first break of play) or if ref plays a minute it's the after the first minute of second half
Nope...till the end of the half, whether that be 28 mins or 2 mins.
Quote from: delgany on January 21, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
You cant have an advance mark from a kick out mark.
If the advanced mark is inside the large rectangle , you can tackle immediately.
Reading the changes , I believe there are too many permutations to interpret at club level!
If a player injures himself in the act of taking a mark and is unable to kick it, does another player get to take it and can he kick directly for a score. If so I could see that being abused eg in a tight game with a minute or 2 to go a player who isn't renowned for shooting gets a mark. He lets on to have injured himself and so the ace free taker gets taking the kick resulting in an easy point. Lots of loopholes which will need to be sorted out quickly.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 23, 2020, 12:49:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 10:36:37 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 22, 2020, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 22, 2020, 09:22:55 PM
What's the alternative though? One that will work in every game up and down the country? 4 or 5 watches for each ref?
Black card = off to the end of the half or rest of game if in second half...too simple?
It's ten minutes, if black carded on 22 minutes it'll be 10 minutes later, 2 minutes into second half (after first break of play) or if ref plays a minute it's the after the first minute of second half
Nope...till the end of the half, whether that be 28 mins or 2 mins.
I'm sure the trainers told us different, but with all the talking going on during the discussion and the fact that these things have changed so quickly you could be right
Quote from: lenny on January 23, 2020, 11:35:31 AM
Quote from: delgany on January 21, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
You cant have an advance mark from a kick out mark.
If the advanced mark is inside the large rectangle , you can tackle immediately.
Reading the changes , I believe there are too many permutations to interpret at club level!
If a player injures himself in the act of taking a mark and is unable to kick it, does another player get to take it and can he kick directly for a score. If so I could see that being abused eg in a tight game with a minute or 2 to go a player who isn't renowned for shooting gets a mark. He lets on to have injured himself and so the ace free taker gets taking the kick resulting in an easy point. Lots of loopholes which will need to be sorted out quickly.
Closet player as determined by referee if he is properly injured.
Quote from: lenny on January 23, 2020, 11:35:31 AM
Quote from: delgany on January 21, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
You cant have an advance mark from a kick out mark.
If the advanced mark is inside the large rectangle , you can tackle immediately.
Reading the changes , I believe there are too many permutations to interpret at club level!
If a player injures himself in the act of taking a mark and is unable to kick it, does another player get to take it and can he kick directly for a score. If so I could see that being abused eg in a tight game with a minute or 2 to go a player who isn't renowned for shooting gets a mark. He lets on to have injured himself and so the ace free taker gets taking the kick resulting in an easy point. Lots of loopholes which will need to be sorted out quickly.
Yes and Yes.
Thou it is a bit like the GO Games Rule - nearest team mate
If the Referee determines that the player who makes the 'Mark' has been injured in the process and is unable to take the kick, the Referee shall direct the Player's nearest team mate to take the kick but this may only be allowed in exceptional circumstances.
A Score may be made from the free awarded for a mark.
As a result i have now updated our teams first aid policies.
We now have
designated on-field first-responders for any injuries that may occur to those claiming advanced marks in tight games during the final quarter.
And when a player does get injured while claiming such a mark, make sure that they do not bother the refs with it until the designated first responder has arrived to validate the seriousness of the injury.
Meanwhile all other players also have a responsibility to ensure the injured player has a clear area around them and give the designated responder space to operate.
.. i assume most teams will adopt similiar policies
He's got 15 seconds or hop ball
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2020, 01:11:01 PM
He’s got 15 seconds or hop ball
so will lots of player go down as if injured to stop the clock?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2020, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 23, 2020, 12:49:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 10:36:37 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 22, 2020, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 22, 2020, 09:22:55 PM
What's the alternative though? One that will work in every game up and down the country? 4 or 5 watches for each ref?
Black card = off to the end of the half or rest of game if in second half...too simple?
It's ten minutes, if black carded on 22 minutes it'll be 10 minutes later, 2 minutes into second half (after first break of play) or if ref plays a minute it's the after the first minute of second half
Nope...till the end of the half, whether that be 28 mins or 2 mins.
I'm sure the trainers told us different, but with all the talking going on during the discussion and the fact that these things have changed so quickly you could be right
That's my solution MR2, not the current situation.
All refs prob give a yellow in the first 15 mins of a game anyway and hold off the black, if not ignore the black at club level completely.
Ciaran Donaghy says get rid of black card an introduce a 50 metre rule for fouls that would have been a black card
Quote from: Eire90 on January 23, 2020, 07:10:44 PM
Ciaran Donaghy says get rid of black card an introduce a 50 metre rule for fouls that would have been a black card
Conor Lane says do both!
On this defensive mark thing...I presume a shot for a point that falls into the keepers hands is a mark and he has 15 seconds to take his kick after putting his hand up.
There will be outrage if the GAA are seen to be taking soccer rules on board...and soccer says the keeper must use the ball within 6 seconds, not our 15!
Or is there a rule that says keepers cannot claim a mark?
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 25, 2020, 02:48:24 AM
On this defensive mark thing...I presume a shot for a point that falls into the keepers hands is a mark and he has 15 seconds to take his kick after putting his hand up.
There will be outrage if the GAA are seen to be taking soccer rules on board...and soccer says the keeper must use the ball within 6 seconds, not our 15!
Or is there a rule that says keepers cannot claim a mark?
for defensive marks the player gets 5 seconds
Quote from: lenny on January 25, 2020, 09:55:09 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 25, 2020, 02:48:24 AM
On this defensive mark thing...I presume a shot for a point that falls into the keepers hands is a mark and he has 15 seconds to take his kick after putting his hand up.
There will be outrage if the GAA are seen to be taking soccer rules on board...and soccer says the keeper must use the ball within 6 seconds, not our 15!
Or is there a rule that says keepers cannot claim a mark?
for defensive marks the player gets 5 seconds
I don't recall reading that anywhere???
The bit that annoys me is if a player doesn't claim the mark he gets 4 steps where he cant be challenged.
Claiming the mark should be the only privilege, playing on should be fair game for tackles etc
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2020, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 25, 2020, 09:55:09 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 25, 2020, 02:48:24 AM
On this defensive mark thing...I presume a shot for a point that falls into the keepers hands is a mark and he has 15 seconds to take his kick after putting his hand up.
There will be outrage if the GAA are seen to be taking soccer rules on board...and soccer says the keeper must use the ball within 6 seconds, not our 15!
Or is there a rule that says keepers cannot claim a mark?
for defensive marks the player gets 5 seconds
I don't recall reading that anywhere???
The bit that annoys me is if a player doesn't claim the mark he gets 4 steps where he cant be challenged.
Claiming the mark should be the only privilege, playing on should be fair game for tackles etc
Will need to look at that again as I thought if the forward Mark isn't claimed he can be tackled! Glad I'm not out this weekend! Will study the games tomorrow
https://www.gaa.ie/news-archive/news/guide-to-new-the-gaelic-football-playing-rules/
See item 4 advanced mark section
Apart from the change to the kick out , the other two changes have disaster written all over them . They have too many variables that are open to interpretation by the referee and the general public watching games , never mind the impact at club level . Too much, too soon and too many changes .
So am I right to say that a player who doesnt take a mark and plays on but is tackled gets a free from the point of the tackle? Is there any other penalty such as ball being moved up or a different player to the one who took the mark now being able to take the free? Can a ref give advantage to a player who takes a mark, plays on and is tackled fairly but is trying to break a tackle to get in on goal or will many refs just blow for the free straight away?
This advance mark rule the shíttest rule ever concocted. Watched a match earlier, ball played in, player catches it and then drops it but the ref already awarded him the mark therefore he gets a free in? Horseshit
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
This advance mark rule the shíttest rule ever concocted. Watched a match earlier, ball played in, player catches it and then drops it but the ref already awarded him the mark therefore he gets a free in? Horseshit
That's nothing to do with the rule, the problem there is the ref.
Quote from: lenny on February 02, 2020, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
This advance mark rule the shíttest rule ever concocted. Watched a match earlier, ball played in, player catches it and then drops it but the ref already awarded him the mark therefore he gets a free in? Horseshit
That's nothing to do with the rule, the problem there is the ref.
If he catches the ball clean in air but on way down drops it, it's a mark. The problem is people not knowing the rules?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2020, 04:56:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 02, 2020, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
This advance mark rule the shíttest rule ever concocted. Watched a match earlier, ball played in, player catches it and then drops it but the ref already awarded him the mark therefore he gets a free in? Horseshit
That's nothing to do with the rule, the problem there is the ref.
If he catches the ball clean in air but on way down drops it, it's a mark. The problem is people not knowing the rules?
I would have assumed the player would have to land safely with ball in hand, in order for it to qualify as a clean catch.
Quote from: Main Street on February 02, 2020, 05:25:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2020, 04:56:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 02, 2020, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
This advance mark rule the shíttest rule ever concocted. Watched a match earlier, ball played in, player catches it and then drops it but the ref already awarded him the mark therefore he gets a free in? Horseshit
That's nothing to do with the rule, the problem there is the ref.
If he catches the ball clean in air but on way down drops it, it's a mark. The problem is people not knowing the rules?
I would have assumed the player would have to land safely with ball in hand, in order for it to qualify as a clean catch.
We were told that a clean catch, whether he hit the floor or not with the ball wasn't our concern, but hey no one will know and assume they know better, I'd a balls up today and I knew it made the wrong call with a double mark, it's going to happen!
Is the original mark still the same? Or do you have to claim it too?
I know it was bloody Colm Reilly but...
Conor Daly made a defensive mark late on, a schemozzle developed, Fermanagh no.24 got a yellow card and then he hopped the ball.
??????
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 02, 2020, 09:24:42 PM
Is the original mark still the same? Or do you have to claim it too?
Yes, blow for all marks, if player raises hand he's 15 seconds to shoot, or has four seconds to play without being tackled
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
I know it was bloody Colm Reilly but...
Conor Daly made a defensive mark late on, a schemozzle developed, Fermanagh no.24 got a yellow card and then he hopped the ball.
??????
It frustrated me at the time too. However the same thing happened V Tyrone last year. We were awarded a free in after Morgan assaulted one of our players, Harney then was the second man in, free overturned to a hop ball, we end up Div 2.
In conclusion we didn't learn anything from last year, O Reilly made the correct call in accordance with the rule book.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
I know it was bloody Colm Reilly but...
Conor Daly made a defensive mark late on, a schemozzle developed, Fermanagh no.24 got a yellow card and then he hopped the ball.
??????
He wasn't awarded the mark. That's where the confusion happened. Reilly did not give it and that's when the Fermanagh player kicked it. That's when the handbags started.
I couldn't tell if it was or wasn't a mark as the ball was so close to the ground when he caught it.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/plans-afoot-to-curb-backchat-to-referees-979606.html
Should be some fun with the sin bin in Hurley stuff😁
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2020, 01:03:42 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/plans-afoot-to-curb-backchat-to-referees-979606.html
Should be some fun with the sin bin in Hurley stuff😁
john Kiely has already spoken about it, so wait for Eddie Keher to row in that's it would take away the manliness of hurling or some other dirge.
I think there's weight in allowing only two players from each team to speak to the referee and making adult games 35 minutes although I'd allow County Boards to apply bi-laws to allow them to reduce Junior/Junior B or whatever to 30 minutes to prevent auld lads still treading the boards from having a heart attack...
Quote from: johnnycool on February 04, 2020, 02:26:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2020, 01:03:42 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/plans-afoot-to-curb-backchat-to-referees-979606.html
Should be some fun with the sin bin in Hurley stuff😁
john Kiely has already spoken about it, so wait for Eddie Keher to row in that's it would take away the manliness of hurling or some other dirge.
I think there's weight in allowing only two players from each team to speak to the referee and making adult games 35 minutes although I'd allow County Boards to apply bi-laws to allow them to reduce Junior/Junior B or whatever to 30 minutes to prevent auld lads still treading the boards from having a heart attack...
Definitely I think the adult games could be increased to 35 minutes especially at the top level of club action.
Agree about allowing county boards to have it in the by-laws to keep Junior B at 30 minutes if so desired.
For the black card in hurling they should put forward a video of all the times in last year's championship where backs fouled to prevent goal-scoring chances.
They should also look at the stats in terms of how many goals were scored where the defender was already on a yellow. From what I remember there seemed to be a fair few cases in the hurling championship last year where goals were scored off backs already on a yellow. Hand to advantage to the attacking player, not the player who can kill a goal chance just by pulling a player down and taking a yellow.
The mark has to go, completely killing the flow of the game, take it there can't be a change for at least another year
Kelly the ref at Tyrone v Kerry gave the free as soon as the hand touched the shoulder of the player in possesion.
Some players (mainly those in muddy white shirts) out of habit were throwing themselves to the ground at the merest touch in order to get the free but they needn't have bothered, the ref did not need to be conned in order to call the free.
Personally I thought this worked well, just have a zero tolerance for the high hand and players in possesion will not have to con the ref, endagering themselves in the process in order to win the free.
Interesting debate on the Wooly podcast re time added on, with particular reference to the Dublin v Monaghan match.
The 6 minutes wasn't discussed, but the 3.30 added on after the 6 was the key issue.
I checked the recording on Sunday morning, and thought based on my understanding of the rules that the ref got it spot on.
There was a 2 minute stoppage after a Dublin score when the ref went down the other end of the pitch to book 3 players.
There was a 1.30 stoppage after an injury around the middle of the field (the one the ref should have let McManus have an advantage for, but he'd already blown too early)
I can't remember exactly, but there was at least 2, if not 3 substitutions that happened during those two stoppages which played a part in extending them. But overall 3.30 was spot on.
Conan on the show said he counted more than 4 minutes of stoppage time, so that should have allowed Monaghan have one last attack. He added on the time Beggan took to come up and take frees during injury time.
Pat McEnenany was on to explain the actual rules:
As I thought, you don't add on time for a freetaker taking a free. That's normal playing time. If the ref judges that the player takes too long, then it's a throw ball.
But I thought that if there was a throw ball for timewasting, then the ref would add on the time wasted as extra time. But that's wrong. The only punishment is throw ball, no additional time is added (which isn't logical!)
What surprised me more is McEnenany disagreed with adding time for the bookings. That's normal playing time he said.
(Although it did remind me of a ladies semi final between Dublin and Cork about 6 or 7 years ago. Dublin 1 point behind, 45 seconds left on the clock, a Dublin girl charging forward around midfield and taken out of it. The refs blows for the free. Calls the Cork girl offer to give her a talking to and a card, which takes about 40 seconds. Clock doesn't stop and hooter blows just as Dubs take the free so the Cork booking cost them the (slim) chance they had of equalising).
Anyway, Pat's take on it was that the ref should have just added between 2.00 and 2.30 for the 3 substitutions and the 1 injury stoppage. Personally I think it's a nonsense not to stop the clock for time taken to book a player, as it would otherwise encourage players not carded to get a card in injury time as a way of defending a lead and run down the clock!
Conan had a good idea that the "Stopwatch Clock" should be brought in but only used for added time. And that it stops for every stoppage in injury time so everyone knows where they are and full value is got for the stoppage time.
Quote from: Hound on February 12, 2020, 09:58:43 AM
Interesting debate on the Wooly podcast re time added on, with particular reference to the Dublin v Monaghan match.
The 6 minutes wasn't discussed, but the 3.30 added on after the 6 was the key issue.
I checked the recording on Sunday morning, and thought based on my understanding of the rules that the ref got it spot on.
There was a 2 minute stoppage after a Dublin score when the ref went down the other end of the pitch to book 3 players.
There was a 1.30 stoppage after an injury around the middle of the field (the one the ref should have let McManus have an advantage for, but he'd already blown too early)
I can't remember exactly, but there was at least 2, if not 3 substitutions that happened during those two stoppages which played a part in extending them. But overall 3.30 was spot on.
Conan on the show said he counted more than 4 minutes of stoppage time, so that should have allowed Monaghan have one last attack. He added on the time Beggan took to come up and take frees during injury time.
Pat McEnenany was on to explain the actual rules:
As I thought, you don't add on time for a freetaker taking a free. That's normal playing time. If the ref judges that the player takes too long, then it's a throw ball.
But I thought that if there was a throw ball for timewasting, then the ref would add on the time wasted as extra time. But that's wrong. The only punishment is throw ball, no additional time is added (which isn't logical!)
What surprised me more is McEnenany disagreed with adding time for the bookings. That's normal playing time he said.
(Although it did remind me of a ladies semi final between Dublin and Cork about 6 or 7 years ago. Dublin 1 point behind, 45 seconds left on the clock, a Dublin girl charging forward around midfield and taken out of it. The refs blows for the free. Calls the Cork girl offer to give her a talking to and a card, which takes about 40 seconds. Clock doesn't stop and hooter blows just as Dubs take the free so the Cork booking cost them the (slim) chance they had of equalising).
Anyway, Pat's take on it was that the ref should have just added between 2.00 and 2.30 for the 3 substitutions and the 1 injury stoppage. Personally I think it's a nonsense not to stop the clock for time taken to book a player, as it would otherwise encourage players not carded to get a card in injury time as a way of defending a lead and run down the clock!
Conan had a good idea that the "Stopwatch Clock" should be brought in but only used for added time. And that it stops for every stoppage in injury time so everyone knows where they are and full value is got for the stoppage time.
I got a bit of abuse (nothing new I suppose) when doing an important championship game, the game was in extra time, 1 minute of extra time in the first ten minute period ad I added over 6/7 minutes for the second period due to 2 injuries and time wasting by the keeper (which reading above I should have hopped the ball), the injuries I stopped the clock and the subs I added the 30 seconds for each.. As you can imagine the winning team will try and play down the clock which is fair enough..
But I was showing my watch the whole time to the players, the supporters on the other hand are watching a clock with the score board wondering WTF! I'd be happy enough for a hotter to do the timing. completely out of my hands then, and would reduce the complaining that goes on during the game, but how do we ensure no one abuses that?
Quote from: Hound on February 12, 2020, 09:58:43 AM
Interesting debate on the Wooly podcast re time added on, with particular reference to the Dublin v Monaghan match.
The 6 minutes wasn't discussed, but the 3.30 added on after the 6 was the key issue.
I checked the recording on Sunday morning, and thought based on my understanding of the rules that the ref got it spot on.
There was a 2 minute stoppage after a Dublin score when the ref went down the other end of the pitch to book 3 players.
There was a 1.30 stoppage after an injury around the middle of the field (the one the ref should have let McManus have an advantage for, but he'd already blown too early)
I can't remember exactly, but there was at least 2, if not 3 substitutions that happened during those two stoppages which played a part in extending them. But overall 3.30 was spot on.
Conan on the show said he counted more than 4 minutes of stoppage time, so that should have allowed Monaghan have one last attack. He added on the time Beggan took to come up and take frees during injury time.
Pat McEnenany was on to explain the actual rules:
As I thought, you don't add on time for a freetaker taking a free. That's normal playing time. If the ref judges that the player takes too long, then it's a throw ball.
But I thought that if there was a throw ball for timewasting, then the ref would add on the time wasted as extra time. But that's wrong. The only punishment is throw ball, no additional time is added (which isn't logical!)
What surprised me more is McEnenany disagreed with adding time for the bookings. That's normal playing time he said.
(Although it did remind me of a ladies semi final between Dublin and Cork about 6 or 7 years ago. Dublin 1 point behind, 45 seconds left on the clock, a Dublin girl charging forward around midfield and taken out of it. The refs blows for the free. Calls the Cork girl offer to give her a talking to and a card, which takes about 40 seconds. Clock doesn't stop and hooter blows just as Dubs take the free so the Cork booking cost them the (slim) chance they had of equalising).
Anyway, Pat's take on it was that the ref should have just added between 2.00 and 2.30 for the 3 substitutions and the 1 injury stoppage. Personally I think it's a nonsense not to stop the clock for time taken to book a player, as it would otherwise encourage players not carded to get a card in injury time as a way of defending a lead and run down the clock!
Conan had a good idea that the "Stopwatch Clock" should be brought in but only used for added time. And that it stops for every stoppage in injury time so everyone knows where they are and full value is got for the stoppage time.
As the rules stand now McEnaney is spot on, he is the knowledgeable one.
The biggest blooper that the ref made in added time was to blow the whistle immediately when McAnespie was fouled.
And I'd say everyone and their dog thought the ref would blow up just before the last play.
Agreed on the issue with refs taking up valuable game time with useless lengthy pedantic disciplinary discussions with a crafty culprit, especially with a game still to be won in added time.
To settle the lengthy time of discipline on the 'fouler' is by brandish the card, take his number and blow whistle to play on.
This, bringing the player towards you talking and brandishing the card is not needed. The ref has the team sheet with names and numbers already.
When the clock hits 70 minutes there will be no more substitutes allowed and no cards will be issued.
Clock or Play will not stop for injuries either...treat them on the field.
Frees must be taken within 30 seconds, otherwise hop the ball.
Game will end when the ball goes out of play after the time expires (like rugby).
For any boxing, grappling or whatever, ref just points them to the line...just like the old days...no need to take names or anything...off you go and play resumes quickly.
Time to put the word "sport" back into our game.
BH, what about when Dublin forwards held the six Mayo defenders last kickout in the AI final 2 years ago? Does the ref send 12 men off? And how could he even see them all at same time?
People moaned about Tyrone player grappling at Clifford and him unfairly getting the line. You can't have six players unfairly getting the line too.
I do agree though, come the 70 minutes, no subs allowed.
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2020, 11:16:36 PM
BH, what about when Dublin forwards held the six Mayo defenders last kickout in the AI final 2 years ago? Does the ref send 12 men off? And how could he even see them all at same time?
People moaned about Tyrone player grappling at Clifford and him unfairly getting the line. You can't have six players unfairly getting the line too.
I do agree though, come the 70 minutes, no subs allowed.
Send them all off...won't happen again if it causes the losing of the game. Ref plus 2 linesmen plus 4 umpires should see most of it.
It will be in place well before an All-Ireland final anyway...the first or second league game could see a flood of dismissals after the 70 mins are up.
Teams will adapt to the rules (or take advantage of them not being applied evenly)...up to the refs to be properly trained, assessed and bad decisions eliminated from their performance as the year goes on.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on February 12, 2020, 10:59:19 PM
When the clock hits 70 minutes there will be no more substitutes allowed and no cards will be issued.
Clock or Play will not stop for injuries either...treat them on the field.
Frees must be taken within 30 seconds, otherwise hop the ball.
Game will end when the ball goes out of play after the time expires (like rugby).
For any boxing, grappling or whatever, ref just points them to the line...just like the old days...no need to take names or anything...off you go and play resumes quickly.
Time to put the word "sport" back into our game.
And that would help the situation in what way?
If a team is up by a point and I head down the field to start grappling with the opposition star player and we both get the line surely that will only help my team and the other team are missing their star player for the 7mins of injury time?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2020, 10:09:33 PM
To settle the lengthy time of discipline on the 'fouler' is by brandish the card, take his number and blow whistle to play on.
This, bringing the player towards you talking and brandishing the card is not needed. The ref has the team sheet with names and numbers already.
In Mc'Anespie's case the ref did not even need to blow the whistle but allow the 5 seconds advantage.
Brannigan's refereeing instinct is an example of old school, dogmatically applied.
In a game where two teams were giving their all and flat out for victory, he then decided to allow an extra 30 seconds for himself to book McManus who was complaining about his officiousness.
Heard David Gough explaining this. The new watches the refs have cater for this and it's all done correctly to the rules. Trouble here is lack of understanding of the rules and possibly the GAA doing a poor job of communicating the actual situation.
Quote from: magpie seanie on February 13, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
Heard David Gough explaining this. The new watches the refs have cater for this and it's all done correctly to the rules. Trouble here is lack of understanding of the rules and possibly the GAA doing a poor job of communicating the actual situation.
Quelle Surprise.
QuoteGAA insist time keeping is not a major issue in games
No plans for review despite accusations of inconsistency by Meath boss
Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 01:00
Seán Moran
The GAA have no plans to review time keeping procedures after criticism from Meath manager Andy McEntee of the lack of added time played in his team's narrow defeat by Mayo in Navan.
Feargal McGill, the GAA's Head of Games Administration, said that he was happy with the standard of time keeping, which was overhauled a few years ago in order to address time wasting. As a result, matches frequently run up to the 76th and 77th minutes.
"I have to say that I think there's a high standard of consistency at the moment from our officials in how they apply the rules on time. We have minimum allowances for substitutions and regulations that were introduced at the start of 2016 to ensure that adequate additional time was being played.
"I don't think you have the situation where people are walking away from matches every week complaining about the amount of time being played or not played.
"There have been high-profile incidents recently of referees playing way over the announced time – the Kilcoo game [All-Ireland club football final against Corofin] and the Dublin game [last Saturday] and if you look at both of those games you'd see that the referee got it right."
McEntee's unhappiness was made clear to print, digital and broadcast media after the match when he contrasted how his team had been granted no additional time beyond the announced four minutes with Dublin's experience on Saturday night. Both he and his players seemed to anticipate a further opportunity to equalise after Thomas Reilly had cut the deficit to a point.
"I can't believe – the amount of breaks that were there in those four minutes of extra-time and we don't play two seconds of extra-time? Dublin got two minutes last night [Saturday] to get an equalising score. There's a level of inconsistency all over the place. And they want referees to get respect. They've got to show a little bit too.
"It's one rule for the Dublin's and the bigger names in this world and it's a different rule for everybody else."
He referred to an incident in which Mayo replacement Bryan Walsh had been down injured during additional time.
"He's supposed to play on . . ." he said of Tyrone referee Seán Hurson. "I mean if that guy is lying down on the ground for 30 seconds holding his head – 30 seconds, you get two scores in 30 seconds"
The Meath manager had grounds for grievance in that instance. Four minutes were announced as injury-time but whereas the injury stopped play for 35 seconds, the clock stopped at four minutes 10 seconds after O'Reilly's score.
Down referee Ciarán Branagan added three minutes to the announced six at Croke Park on Saturday, enabling Dublin to close a six-point deficit by the 79th minute. Most observers accept that the match had been held up for that amount of time, as the referee administered some cards, injuries were treated and replacements took to the field.
McGill contends however that referees are far more aware of the need to address deliberate time wasting.
"When the board goes up for five minutes' additional time and teams are trying to run down the clock and as a reaction to that, referees are now way more conscious of the fact that there needs to be at least five minutes of injury-time. People at matches know the phrase, 'there'll be at least five minutes additional time'."
Seven years ago, a motion to congress was successful in introducing the countdown clock familiar from women's football. But after trialling the idea in third-level college's fixtures, the GAA decided not to proceed after identifying what were seen as shortcomings in the system.
As a result, the 2013 amendment was deleted at a subsequent Congress.
The misgivings about the time-keeping system that has proved successful in the women's game were based on reputational damage to the association, according to the report presented to Central Council:
"As part of the two trials of the clock/hooter system conducted, a number of concerns were raised by those who witnessed the trials in action with regard to the impact the introduction of the clock and hooter might have on the playing of our games.
"These included operating officials, referees, players, mentors and spectators. These concerns – along with the suggested protocol for implementation – were also presented to Central Council delegates. In the main, the concerns centred on potential damage to the reputation of association:
These included human error or failure to operate it properly, system failure, prevalence of 'fouling down' the clock, the playing of 'keep ball' when the clock was in view and deliberate concession of possession in order to make the ball go dead."
There are no plans to revisit the idea.
Article from the Irish Times a few days back.
Regarding the first bit in bold I don't think I've been at any tight game in the last few years at every level where timekeeping wasn't raised as an issue afterwards.
It's a consistent theme be in club, school or intercounty where the score is tight.
The second bit in bold shows the flimsiness of the case against a hooter system given all the arguements listed here against it already occur.
I argue that more reputational damage is being done by continuing on with the current system.
It's as certain as rain is wet there will be countless more tight games where the ref's timekeeping comes up as an issue until eventually a hooter system is adopted.
The key argument in favour of a hooter system is the blatant evidence of the women's game where the hooter system works so well in literally thousands of games.
I'd love to hear those who have adopted the "yerra things are grand" approach like Feargal here make the case as to why things would not be better with a hooter system like the women's game.
Quote from: magpie seanie on February 13, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
Heard David Gough explaining this. The new watches the refs have cater for this and it's all done correctly to the rules. Trouble here is lack of understanding of the rules and possibly the GAA doing a poor job of communicating the actual situation.
Perhaps David needs to communicate better to Brannigan that the time a ref spends running after players, explaining the nature of the offence in great detail, finally booking players and the time players use to take a free kick is not time to be added on, especially when Dublin are in dire straits.
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 13, 2020, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on February 13, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
Heard David Gough explaining this. The new watches the refs have cater for this and it's all done correctly to the rules. Trouble here is lack of understanding of the rules and possibly the GAA doing a poor job of communicating the actual situation.
Quelle Surprise.
QuoteGAA insist time keeping is not a major issue in games
No plans for review despite accusations of inconsistency by Meath boss
Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 01:00
Seán Moran
The GAA have no plans to review time keeping procedures after criticism from Meath manager Andy McEntee of the lack of added time played in his team's narrow defeat by Mayo in Navan.
Feargal McGill, the GAA's Head of Games Administration, said that he was happy with the standard of time keeping, which was overhauled a few years ago in order to address time wasting. As a result, matches frequently run up to the 76th and 77th minutes.
"I have to say that I think there's a high standard of consistency at the moment from our officials in how they apply the rules on time. We have minimum allowances for substitutions and regulations that were introduced at the start of 2016 to ensure that adequate additional time was being played.
"I don't think you have the situation where people are walking away from matches every week complaining about the amount of time being played or not played.
"There have been high-profile incidents recently of referees playing way over the announced time – the Kilcoo game [All-Ireland club football final against Corofin] and the Dublin game [last Saturday] and if you look at both of those games you'd see that the referee got it right."
McEntee's unhappiness was made clear to print, digital and broadcast media after the match when he contrasted how his team had been granted no additional time beyond the announced four minutes with Dublin's experience on Saturday night. Both he and his players seemed to anticipate a further opportunity to equalise after Thomas Reilly had cut the deficit to a point.
"I can't believe – the amount of breaks that were there in those four minutes of extra-time and we don't play two seconds of extra-time? Dublin got two minutes last night [Saturday] to get an equalising score. There's a level of inconsistency all over the place. And they want referees to get respect. They've got to show a little bit too.
"It's one rule for the Dublin's and the bigger names in this world and it's a different rule for everybody else."
He referred to an incident in which Mayo replacement Bryan Walsh had been down injured during additional time.
"He's supposed to play on . . ." he said of Tyrone referee Seán Hurson. "I mean if that guy is lying down on the ground for 30 seconds holding his head – 30 seconds, you get two scores in 30 seconds"
The Meath manager had grounds for grievance in that instance. Four minutes were announced as injury-time but whereas the injury stopped play for 35 seconds, the clock stopped at four minutes 10 seconds after O'Reilly's score.
Down referee Ciarán Branagan added three minutes to the announced six at Croke Park on Saturday, enabling Dublin to close a six-point deficit by the 79th minute. Most observers accept that the match had been held up for that amount of time, as the referee administered some cards, injuries were treated and replacements took to the field.
McGill contends however that referees are far more aware of the need to address deliberate time wasting.
"When the board goes up for five minutes' additional time and teams are trying to run down the clock and as a reaction to that, referees are now way more conscious of the fact that there needs to be at least five minutes of injury-time. People at matches know the phrase, 'there'll be at least five minutes additional time'."
Seven years ago, a motion to congress was successful in introducing the countdown clock familiar from women's football. But after trialling the idea in third-level college's fixtures, the GAA decided not to proceed after identifying what were seen as shortcomings in the system.
As a result, the 2013 amendment was deleted at a subsequent Congress.
The misgivings about the time-keeping system that has proved successful in the women's game were based on reputational damage to the association, according to the report presented to Central Council:
"As part of the two trials of the clock/hooter system conducted, a number of concerns were raised by those who witnessed the trials in action with regard to the impact the introduction of the clock and hooter might have on the playing of our games.
"These included operating officials, referees, players, mentors and spectators. These concerns – along with the suggested protocol for implementation – were also presented to Central Council delegates. In the main, the concerns centred on potential damage to the reputation of association:
These included human error or failure to operate it properly, system failure, prevalence of 'fouling down' the clock, the playing of 'keep ball' when the clock was in view and deliberate concession of possession in order to make the ball go dead."
There are no plans to revisit the idea.
Article from the Irish Times a few days back.
Regarding the first bit in bold I don't think I've been at any tight game in the last few years at every level where timekeeping wasn't raised as an issue afterwards.
It's a consistent theme be in club, school or intercounty where the score is tight.
The second bit in bold shows the flimsiness of the case against a hooter system given all the arguements listed here against it already occur.
I argue that more reputational damage is being done by continuing on with the current system.
It's as certain as rain is wet there will be countless more tight games where the ref's timekeeping comes up as an issue until eventually a hooter system is adopted.
The key argument in favour of a hooter system is the blatant evidence of the women's game where the hooter system works so well in literally thousands of games.
I'd love to hear those who have adopted the "yerra things are grand" approach like Feargal here make the case as to why things would not be better with a hooter system like the women's game.
Well said.
This just further highlights the absolute disconnect between the top brass of the GAA and the grassroots. I mean is this fella watching games at all? It's an issue that crops up on most weekends!
Here's another quote from Feargal McGill '"The game (Kildare v Mayo) has been fixed for 7pm in Croke Park, and that is not going to change under any circumstances". A common theme is digging the heels in despite all of the evidence telling you that you're wrong. Like the Newbridge episode, they'll eventually buckle on the stopclock but only after pressure is put on. Always reactive and never proactive.
Quote from: Dubhaltach on February 13, 2020, 10:44:32 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 13, 2020, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on February 13, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
Heard David Gough explaining this. The new watches the refs have cater for this and it's all done correctly to the rules. Trouble here is lack of understanding of the rules and possibly the GAA doing a poor job of communicating the actual situation.
Quelle Surprise.
QuoteGAA insist time keeping is not a major issue in games
No plans for review despite accusations of inconsistency by Meath boss
Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 01:00
Seán Moran
The GAA have no plans to review time keeping procedures after criticism from Meath manager Andy McEntee of the lack of added time played in his team's narrow defeat by Mayo in Navan.
Feargal McGill, the GAA's Head of Games Administration, said that he was happy with the standard of time keeping, which was overhauled a few years ago in order to address time wasting. As a result, matches frequently run up to the 76th and 77th minutes.
"I have to say that I think there's a high standard of consistency at the moment from our officials in how they apply the rules on time. We have minimum allowances for substitutions and regulations that were introduced at the start of 2016 to ensure that adequate additional time was being played.
"I don't think you have the situation where people are walking away from matches every week complaining about the amount of time being played or not played.
"There have been high-profile incidents recently of referees playing way over the announced time – the Kilcoo game [All-Ireland club football final against Corofin] and the Dublin game [last Saturday] and if you look at both of those games you'd see that the referee got it right."
McEntee's unhappiness was made clear to print, digital and broadcast media after the match when he contrasted how his team had been granted no additional time beyond the announced four minutes with Dublin's experience on Saturday night. Both he and his players seemed to anticipate a further opportunity to equalise after Thomas Reilly had cut the deficit to a point.
"I can't believe – the amount of breaks that were there in those four minutes of extra-time and we don't play two seconds of extra-time? Dublin got two minutes last night [Saturday] to get an equalising score. There's a level of inconsistency all over the place. And they want referees to get respect. They've got to show a little bit too.
"It's one rule for the Dublin's and the bigger names in this world and it's a different rule for everybody else."
He referred to an incident in which Mayo replacement Bryan Walsh had been down injured during additional time.
"He's supposed to play on . . ." he said of Tyrone referee Seán Hurson. "I mean if that guy is lying down on the ground for 30 seconds holding his head – 30 seconds, you get two scores in 30 seconds"
The Meath manager had grounds for grievance in that instance. Four minutes were announced as injury-time but whereas the injury stopped play for 35 seconds, the clock stopped at four minutes 10 seconds after O'Reilly's score.
Down referee Ciarán Branagan added three minutes to the announced six at Croke Park on Saturday, enabling Dublin to close a six-point deficit by the 79th minute. Most observers accept that the match had been held up for that amount of time, as the referee administered some cards, injuries were treated and replacements took to the field.
McGill contends however that referees are far more aware of the need to address deliberate time wasting.
"When the board goes up for five minutes' additional time and teams are trying to run down the clock and as a reaction to that, referees are now way more conscious of the fact that there needs to be at least five minutes of injury-time. People at matches know the phrase, 'there'll be at least five minutes additional time'."
Seven years ago, a motion to congress was successful in introducing the countdown clock familiar from women's football. But after trialling the idea in third-level college's fixtures, the GAA decided not to proceed after identifying what were seen as shortcomings in the system.
As a result, the 2013 amendment was deleted at a subsequent Congress.
The misgivings about the time-keeping system that has proved successful in the women's game were based on reputational damage to the association, according to the report presented to Central Council:
"As part of the two trials of the clock/hooter system conducted, a number of concerns were raised by those who witnessed the trials in action with regard to the impact the introduction of the clock and hooter might have on the playing of our games.
"These included operating officials, referees, players, mentors and spectators. These concerns – along with the suggested protocol for implementation – were also presented to Central Council delegates. In the main, the concerns centred on potential damage to the reputation of association:
These included human error or failure to operate it properly, system failure, prevalence of 'fouling down' the clock, the playing of 'keep ball' when the clock was in view and deliberate concession of possession in order to make the ball go dead."
There are no plans to revisit the idea.
Article from the Irish Times a few days back.
Regarding the first bit in bold I don't think I've been at any tight game in the last few years at every level where timekeeping wasn't raised as an issue afterwards.
It's a consistent theme be in club, school or intercounty where the score is tight.
The second bit in bold shows the flimsiness of the case against a hooter system given all the arguements listed here against it already occur.
I argue that more reputational damage is being done by continuing on with the current system.
It's as certain as rain is wet there will be countless more tight games where the ref's timekeeping comes up as an issue until eventually a hooter system is adopted.
The key argument in favour of a hooter system is the blatant evidence of the women's game where the hooter system works so well in literally thousands of games.
I'd love to hear those who have adopted the "yerra things are grand" approach like Feargal here make the case as to why things would not be better with a hooter system like the women's game.
Well said.
This just further highlights the absolute disconnect between the top brass of the GAA and the grassroots. I mean is this fella watching games at all? It's an issue that crops up on most weekends!
I walk away from a match with few thoughts, we could have played better, we were brilliant, can't remember last time I walked away from a game as a supporter going, flip sake, we should have had 2 more minutes there at the end!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2020, 10:55:32 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on February 13, 2020, 10:44:32 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 13, 2020, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on February 13, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
Heard David Gough explaining this. The new watches the refs have cater for this and it's all done correctly to the rules. Trouble here is lack of understanding of the rules and possibly the GAA doing a poor job of communicating the actual situation.
Quelle Surprise.
QuoteGAA insist time keeping is not a major issue in games
No plans for review despite accusations of inconsistency by Meath boss
Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 01:00
Seán Moran
The GAA have no plans to review time keeping procedures after criticism from Meath manager Andy McEntee of the lack of added time played in his team's narrow defeat by Mayo in Navan.
Feargal McGill, the GAA's Head of Games Administration, said that he was happy with the standard of time keeping, which was overhauled a few years ago in order to address time wasting. As a result, matches frequently run up to the 76th and 77th minutes.
"I have to say that I think there's a high standard of consistency at the moment from our officials in how they apply the rules on time. We have minimum allowances for substitutions and regulations that were introduced at the start of 2016 to ensure that adequate additional time was being played.
"I don't think you have the situation where people are walking away from matches every week complaining about the amount of time being played or not played.
"There have been high-profile incidents recently of referees playing way over the announced time – the Kilcoo game [All-Ireland club football final against Corofin] and the Dublin game [last Saturday] and if you look at both of those games you'd see that the referee got it right."
McEntee's unhappiness was made clear to print, digital and broadcast media after the match when he contrasted how his team had been granted no additional time beyond the announced four minutes with Dublin's experience on Saturday night. Both he and his players seemed to anticipate a further opportunity to equalise after Thomas Reilly had cut the deficit to a point.
"I can't believe – the amount of breaks that were there in those four minutes of extra-time and we don't play two seconds of extra-time? Dublin got two minutes last night [Saturday] to get an equalising score. There's a level of inconsistency all over the place. And they want referees to get respect. They've got to show a little bit too.
"It's one rule for the Dublin's and the bigger names in this world and it's a different rule for everybody else."
He referred to an incident in which Mayo replacement Bryan Walsh had been down injured during additional time.
"He's supposed to play on . . ." he said of Tyrone referee Seán Hurson. "I mean if that guy is lying down on the ground for 30 seconds holding his head – 30 seconds, you get two scores in 30 seconds"
The Meath manager had grounds for grievance in that instance. Four minutes were announced as injury-time but whereas the injury stopped play for 35 seconds, the clock stopped at four minutes 10 seconds after O'Reilly's score.
Down referee Ciarán Branagan added three minutes to the announced six at Croke Park on Saturday, enabling Dublin to close a six-point deficit by the 79th minute. Most observers accept that the match had been held up for that amount of time, as the referee administered some cards, injuries were treated and replacements took to the field.
McGill contends however that referees are far more aware of the need to address deliberate time wasting.
"When the board goes up for five minutes' additional time and teams are trying to run down the clock and as a reaction to that, referees are now way more conscious of the fact that there needs to be at least five minutes of injury-time. People at matches know the phrase, 'there'll be at least five minutes additional time'."
Seven years ago, a motion to congress was successful in introducing the countdown clock familiar from women's football. But after trialling the idea in third-level college's fixtures, the GAA decided not to proceed after identifying what were seen as shortcomings in the system.
As a result, the 2013 amendment was deleted at a subsequent Congress.
The misgivings about the time-keeping system that has proved successful in the women's game were based on reputational damage to the association, according to the report presented to Central Council:
"As part of the two trials of the clock/hooter system conducted, a number of concerns were raised by those who witnessed the trials in action with regard to the impact the introduction of the clock and hooter might have on the playing of our games.
"These included operating officials, referees, players, mentors and spectators. These concerns – along with the suggested protocol for implementation – were also presented to Central Council delegates. In the main, the concerns centred on potential damage to the reputation of association:
These included human error or failure to operate it properly, system failure, prevalence of 'fouling down' the clock, the playing of 'keep ball' when the clock was in view and deliberate concession of possession in order to make the ball go dead."
There are no plans to revisit the idea.
Article from the Irish Times a few days back.
Regarding the first bit in bold I don't think I've been at any tight game in the last few years at every level where timekeeping wasn't raised as an issue afterwards.
It's a consistent theme be in club, school or intercounty where the score is tight.
The second bit in bold shows the flimsiness of the case against a hooter system given all the arguements listed here against it already occur.
I argue that more reputational damage is being done by continuing on with the current system.
It's as certain as rain is wet there will be countless more tight games where the ref's timekeeping comes up as an issue until eventually a hooter system is adopted.
The key argument in favour of a hooter system is the blatant evidence of the women's game where the hooter system works so well in literally thousands of games.
I'd love to hear those who have adopted the "yerra things are grand" approach like Feargal here make the case as to why things would not be better with a hooter system like the women's game.
Well said.
This just further highlights the absolute disconnect between the top brass of the GAA and the grassroots. I mean is this fella watching games at all? It's an issue that crops up on most weekends!
I walk away from a match with few thoughts, we could have played better, we were brilliant, can't remember last time I walked away from a game as a supporter going, flip sake, we should have had 2 more minutes there at the end!
The thoughts you refer to are not mutually exclusive.
i made this comment on the dublin monaghan thread but with the added time etc. at the end took over discussion.
i believe there was a sub made after monaghan won a mark in 2nd half (mcmanus i think). is this correct can you make a sub after a mark?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 19, 2020, 07:13:32 PM
i made this comment on the dublin monaghan thread but with the added time etc. at the end took over discussion.
i believe there was a sub made after monaghan won a mark in 2nd half (mcmanus i think). is this correct can you make a sub after a mark?
Are you asking if a mark constitutes a break in play where a sub can be made?
yes, thats my question. apologies for being unclear.
I can see your point though (ie. if it is your point), if it was the case that McManus made the mark and the Monaghan momentum was halted in order to allow the crafty Dubs to make a substitution, thereby nullifying the honestly won advantage.
I thought the mark lasts 15 seconds so the advantage could have been seen to be with mcmanus also.
if it is only 15 seconds then its not a break in play in my opinion.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 19, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
I thought the mark lasts 15 seconds so the advantage could have been seen to be with mcmanus also.
if it is only 15 seconds then its not a break in play in my opinion.
The mark is only a 5 seconds break if the player chooses to take the free kick.
Quote from: Main Street on February 19, 2020, 09:35:36 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 19, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
I thought the mark lasts 15 seconds so the advantage could have been seen to be with mcmanus also.
if it is only 15 seconds then its not a break in play in my opinion.
The mark is only a 5 seconds break if the player chooses to take the free kick.
pretty sure its 15. at least thats what we have been told for the new rules this year. was 5 last year afaik
15 secs yes. And ref's have been instructed to give the player taking a mark a couple of steps to decide if he wishes to take the mark ie put his hand up
is there also guidance about not signalling the mark and playing on. you cannot be tackled for 4 steps or length of time it takes to take 4 steps.
if this happens in the large rectangle would it be a penalty or 14m free?
Quote from: JoG2 on February 19, 2020, 10:11:16 PM
15 secs yes. And ref's have been instructed to give the player taking a mark a couple of steps to decide if he wishes to take the mark ie put his hand up
Forwards get 15 seconds, defenders get 5 seconds. I suppose the difference being the forward is given more time as he is kicking for a point.
Quote from: Nanderson on February 19, 2020, 10:00:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 19, 2020, 09:35:36 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 19, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
I thought the mark lasts 15 seconds so the advantage could have been seen to be with mcmanus also.
if it is only 15 seconds then its not a break in play in my opinion.
The mark is only a 5 seconds break if the player chooses to take the free kick.
pretty sure its 15. at least thats what we have been told for the new rules this year. was 5 last year afaik
Yup it was increased from 5 seconds to 15 seconds when the updated rules came in this year.
The latest version of the rule book on GAA.ie still hasn't been updated with the new rules (there's no mention of the attacking mark anywhere in it)
This is seriously shoddy stuff from the GAA - change the rules, but don't actually bother to update the rule-book on the organisation's web-site.
Based on last year's rules, I think a team is allowed make a substitution when a mark from a kickout is caught and the player opts not to play on because the wording indicates that not playing on is calling "taking a free kick " and free kicks are regarded as a break in play, during which substitutions are allowed.
QuoteA Substitution may only be made during a break in play, after the player has given a substitution note to the Referee, or in the case of a InterCounty Senior game, to the Sideline Official.
This shall also apply to a Temporary Substitution allowed under Rule 1.5 (b), Rules of Control -
Injuries: Blood.
A break in play shall be when the play is stopped after a score or wide or for a free, sideline puck/ kick or when the Referee has stopped play for medical attention to an injured player.
QuoteMark
When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the Kick-Out point, he shall be awarded a 'Mark' by the Referee. The player awarded a 'Mark' shall have the options of (a) Taking a free kick or (b) Playing on immediately
Okay, the advanced mark is 15 secs and your everyday plain mark is still 5 seconds.
Both still don't constitute a break in play so that a substitution can be made, do they?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 19, 2020, 10:19:54 PM
is there also guidance about not signalling the mark and playing on. you cannot be tackled for 4 steps or length of time it takes to take 4 steps.
if this happens in the large rectangle would it be a penalty or 14m free?
You can only shadow the attacker for the 4 steps , if you lay a hand on him in the large rectangle (during the 4 steps) , it's a penalty.
Quote from: lenny on February 19, 2020, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 19, 2020, 10:11:16 PM
15 secs yes. And ref's have been instructed to give the player taking a mark a couple of steps to decide if he wishes to take the mark ie put his hand up
Forwards get 15 seconds, defenders get 5 seconds. I suppose the difference being the forward is given more time as he is kicking for a point.
Aye, that's it. If the player taking the mark gets injured in the process, the nearest player takes the free. So get your free taker sprinting over if its a level game with a minute or 2 to go!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 19, 2020, 10:19:54 PM
is there also guidance about not signalling the mark and playing on. you cannot be tackled for 4 steps or length of time it takes to take 4 steps.
if this happens in the large rectangle would it be a penalty or 14m free?
Penalty - see the link here
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/guide-to-new-the-gaelic-football-playing-rules/
At the moment it's a penalty but the Standing Rules Committee have a motion that will be voted at the Annual Congress on the 29th that would allow defenders to tackle a player who makes an attacking mark in either the large or small rectangle immediately i.e no 4 steps allowance. The Standing Rules Committee continue to cover themselves in glory.
I haven't see the actual wording of this further updating to the advanced mark rule so not sure if it's large or small rectangle.
Also coming up with wording might be a bit tricky in terms of what happens when a player makes a mark just outside the area (be it large or small rectangle) and plays on - where exactly would the defender be allowed tackle him - when the ball comes into the area or would he have to wait for the player to enter the area. Even if the wording is clear it will most likely be an absolute nightmare of a rule for refs to make a call on, and the punishment for a defending team who breaks the rule is a penalty, expect controversy on this one.
Also pondering it a bit you could you see lads deliberatly staying outside the area so they don't get tackled but rather set their bodies to tap over an easy point or even worse the dreaded fisted point - it's possible this advantage mark will increase the logic of taking the fisted points in certain situations - for instance in the last few minutes of a drawn game - lad goes up catches ball outside the square, plays on, stays outside the area and uses his four unchallended steps to handpasss the ball at his ease over the bar.
Quote from: Main Street on February 19, 2020, 10:38:58 PM
Okay, the advanced mark is 15 secs and your everyday plain mark is still 5 seconds.
Both still don't constitute a break in play so that a substitution can be made, do they?
Nope 15 seconds for all marks now.
If the player opts to play on, its not a break in play and substitutions aren't allowed.
If the player stops and takes the kick, it is a break in play and substitutions are allowed.
Quote2: For all marks (the advance mark and the kickout mark) the following provisions apply; the player will now be allowed 15 seconds to take the mark (it was 5 seconds previously). The opposing players must retreat 13m (it was 10m previously).
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/guide-to-new-the-gaelic-football-playing-rules/
Quote from: JoG2 on February 19, 2020, 11:08:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 19, 2020, 10:19:54 PM
is there also guidance about not signalling the mark and playing on. you cannot be tackled for 4 steps or length of time it takes to take 4 steps.
if this happens in the large rectangle would it be a penalty or 14m free?
You can only shadow the attacker for the 4 steps , if you lay a hand on him in the large rectangle (during the 4 steps) , it's a penalty.
Quote from: lenny on February 19, 2020, 10:23:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 19, 2020, 10:11:16 PM
15 secs yes. And ref's have been instructed to give the player taking a mark a couple of steps to decide if he wishes to take the mark ie put his hand up
Forwards get 15 seconds, defenders get 5 seconds. I suppose the difference being the forward is given more time as he is kicking for a point.
Aye, that's it. If the player taking the mark gets injured in the process, the nearest player takes the free. So get your free taker sprinting over if its a level game with a minute or 2 to go!
Can see there being shenanigans with this one.
Last play of a drawn All-Ireland Tommy Walsh goes up among a scrum of players and hauls down a mark.
Gets injured in the process of landing.
Ref has to figure which Kerry player was the nearest to him.
In a scrum of moving jumping players, picking the nearest could be a right game of pin the tail on the donkey.
Is it nearest when he catches the ball in the air or when he lands or what happens if he goes sprawling and ends up on the gound from his leap?
Yesterday I read an article in the Irish News by Brendan Crossan which if someone could paste on here it would be well worth a read. The views expressed are from Antrim manager Lenny Harbinson and I havent seen or heard anything yet that resembles a solution that fixes so many problems at the one time. Probably ten years ahead of it's time, but something needs to happen or our great game will end up being a shoot out between three or four counties and everyone else bankrupt in chasing a prize that is unattainable.
Both articles
DO away with pre-season competitions.
Rip up the National League and blend it in with the championship.
Give teams more exposure to those above them and try to level the playing field by allowing the rising tide to lift the boats that most need lifted.
That is the general thrust of how Lenny Harbinson views the footballing landscape. It has, over the last 15 years, become very lop-sided.
Go back a decade, back to when Harbinson was guiding St Gall's to an All-Ireland club title.
ADVERTISING
20 of the 32 counties are in the same division of the Allianz Football League now that they were then. Only Cork and Derry, who were both in Division One then and are both in Division Three now, are more than one league out either way now.
Only Clare from that year's Division Four have seen the heights of Division Two in that time in between, while Mayo, Dublin, Kerry, Galway and Tyrone have almost exclusively been in Division One, while Monaghan are in their sixth straight year there.
The National League system has produced some extraordinary entertainment, but has it also produced a series of heavier ceilings that the teams beneath just cannot crack?
For Harbinson, the answer is to mash up the league and combine it with the championship in a new format altogether.
"Take all the provincial championships away and say we're going into four groups of eight. Blend the league into the championship," says the Antrim manager.
"The top four teams in each group go straight into the top tier knockout. Start it in January, and do away with the Mickey Mouse competitions.
"Come April, the top four go and play for Sam Maguire, the bottom four go into a second tier competition. You could seed it, two from Division One in each group, two from Division Two, and so on.
"You're giving everybody a go at playing against teams, some who will be at their level, some who will be better. Some days you'll compete, some days you'll get a trouncing, but you'd hope that the rising tide would lift all boats and bring your standard up.
"If you don't get in the top four, the secondary competition is there and run off side-by-side with the primary competition.
"Something like that would have worked a lot better. Instead, because you're Division Three or Four, you're shoehorned into a secondary competition and given no chance to affect that."
His plans can be seen on the opposite page.
The basic rundown is that the pre-season competitions are dropped, the League is brought forward into early January and played off as a double-round competition across the next 17 weeks.
It's split up into something resembling the old 1A/1B/2A/2B system, with the current standings used as seedings to split the 32 teams into four groups.
The top four at the end of each group go into the All-Ireland SFC and the bottom four go into the All-Ireland IFC. Both are played concurrently and both are straight knockout, with an open draw.
It's all over by the end of June and each county has played a minimum of 16 games, comfortably more than the current minimum of 10. That's if you include the pre-season competitions. If not, the minimum is just nine across a season that lasts at least six months, if not eight.
All counties would be subject to a maximum spend of £500,000 per code across all their inter-county squads, from development up to senior, and must invest £100,000 into club coaching and development each year.
Counties that run into an overspend would be deducted points in the following year's competitions.
University and schools football would be played during the first term between September and December
Harbinson also suggests that the GAA be split into two sections centrally. An administrative end that looks after finances and fixtures, while another central body would be responsible for all strategic investments by any county.
The Antrim boss would do away with Congress and appoint a central GAA board that includes Tom Ryan (Director General), Ger Mulryan (finance director), as well as a handful of other directors including ones to cover coaching and administration.
"They would be responsible to a GAA shareholders' board made up of six county chairmen, six club chairmen and three independent, professional people.
"That board would have three years to plan and execute, with key measurements in place for GAA shareholders to monitor and measure progress.
"And this group would have the power to hire and fire. If hiring, they can source a chief executive with no GAA past. They only need to get the best person.
"The GAA should also run strategic courses to help counties close the gap. For example, strength and conditioning accreditations. Three people from each county attend and best practice is shared.
"County GAA coaches would have to do a professional badge, and only badge holders can coach or manage at county level, and only within their own county.
"There should also be a team of 'super coaches', maybe five groups of four people each that actually go into a failing county and spend time sharing best practice to put a recovery plan in place to help close the gap with other counties."
Harbinson also says he would do away with the four provincial councils and replace them with four paid directors who sit on the GAA's central board and each take charge of an area.
"The GAA is run like a business in Croke Park, but once you go outside the front doors, they're leaving the provinces, and then the counties within each province, to do their own things in many aspects. There's some governance but not a lot.
"Various parts of the organisation are pulling against each other. It shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for the GAA to have a strategic department, a finance department.
"They can't be in control of every nook and cranny in every county, but you delegate out and you take central control of it. They don't do that, and as we can see, costs are going up, there are overspends, and they're doing nothing about it. It's been flagged up for years."
And away on he goes, back to work. The GAA could do worse than bring him in and listen.
***********************
LENNY'S PLAN
(Based on 2020 National Football League, with current standings taken as final positions)
- No pre-season competitions
- No provincial championships
- Championship and league blended together
- Organised in four groups of eight, without New York
- Groups seeded, with two teams from each 2020 NFL division in each group
- Double round league, fourteen games each, home and away
- Top four in each group go through to All-Ireland SFC quarter-finals
- Bottom four in each group move into All-Ireland IFC quarter-finals
- Both competitions open draw
- Two competitions run side-by-sid
- Two options for Championship dates – either May 17 to June 28, or August 9 to September 20
- All-Ireland SFC and IFC finals played on the same weekend, if not together
Groups seeded, randomly generated
Group A: Galway, Meath, Westmeath, Clare, Cork, Derry, Sligo, London
Group B: Mayo, Kerry, Laois, Kildare, Longford, Down, Carlow, Wexford
Group C: Tyrone, Donegal, Armagh, Fermanagh, Offaly, Tipperary, Antrim, Waterford
Group D: Dublin, Monaghan, Cavan, Roscommon, Leitrim, Louth, Limerick, Wicklow
Group stage fixtures
January 4/5
Group A: Meath v Galway, London v Westmeath, Sligo v Clare, Cork v Derry
Group B: Kerry v Mayo, Laois v Wexford, Kildare v Carlow, Longford v Down
Group C: Donegal v Tyrone, Armagh v Waterford, Fermanagh v Antrim, Offaly v Tipperary
Group D: Monaghan v Dublin, Cavan v Wicklow, Roscommon v Limerick, Leitrim v Louth
January 11/12
Group A: Westmeath v Clare, Galway v Sligo, London v Derry, Cork v Meath
Group B: Laois v Kildare, Mayo v Carlow, Wexford v Down, Kerry v Longford
Group C: Armagh v Fermanagh, Tyrone v Antrim, Waterford v Tipperary, Donegal v Offaly
Group D: Cavan v Roscommon, Dublin v Limerick, Wicklow v Louth, Monaghan v Leitrim
January 18/19
Group A: Sligo v Cork, London v Clare, Meath v Westmeath, Derry v Galway
Group B: Carlow v Longford, Wexford v Kildare, Kerry v Laois, Down v Mayo
Group C: Antrim v Offaly, Waterford v Fermanagh, Donegal v Armagh, Tipperary v Tyrone
Group D: Limerick v Leitrim, Wicklow v Roscommon, Monaghan v Cavan, Louth v Dublin
January 25/26
Group A: Galway v Westmeath, Clare v Meath, Cork v London, Derry v Sligo
Group B: Mayo v Laois, Kildare v Kerry, Longford v Wexford, Down v Carlow
Group C: Tyrone v Armagh, Fermanagh v Donegal, Offaly v Waterford, Tipperary v Antrim
Group D: Dublin v Cavan, Roscommon v Monaghan, Leitrim v Wicklow, Limerick v Louth
February 1/2
Break week
February 8/9
Group A: Clare v Cork, London v Galway, Meath v Sligo, Westmeath v Derry
Group B: Kildare v Longford, Wexford v Mayo, Kerry v Carlow, Laois v Down
Group C: Fermanagh v Offaly, Waterford v Tyrone, Donegal v Antrim, Armagh v Tipperary
Group D: Roscommon v Leitrim, Wicklow v Dublin, Monaghan v Limerick, Cavan v Louth
February 15/16
Group A: Derry v Meath, Sligo v London, Clare v Galway, Cork v Westmeath
Group B: Down v Kerry, Carlow v Wexford, Kildare v Mayo, Longford v Laois
Group C: Tipperary v Donegal, Antrim v Waterford, Fermanagh v Tyrone, Offaly v Armagh
Group D: Louth v Monaghan, Limerick v Wicklow, Roscommon v Dublin, Leitrim v Cavan
February 22/23
Group A: Sligo v Westmeath, London v Meath, Galway v Cork, Derry v Clare
Group B: Carlow v Laois, Wexford v Kerry, Mayo v Longford, Down v Kildare
Group C: Antrim v Armagh, Waterford v Donegal, Tyrone v Offaly, Tipperary v Fermanagh
Group D: Limerick v Cavan, Wicklow v Monaghan, Dublin v Leitrim, Louth v Roscommon
February 29 / March 1
Group A: Galway v Meath, Westmeath v London, Clare v Sligo, Derry v Cork
Group B: Mayo v Kerry, Wexford v Laois, Carlow v Kildare, Down v Longford
Group C: Tyrone v Donegal, Waterford v Armagh, Antrim v Fermanagh, Tipperary v Offaly
Group D: Dublin v Monaghan, Wicklow v Cavan, Limerick v Roscommon, Louth v Leitrim
March 7/8
Break week
March 14/15
Group A: Clare v Westmeath, Sligo v Galway, Derry v London, Meath v Cork
Group B: Kildare v Laois, Carlow v Mayo, Down v Wexford, Longford v Kerry
Group C: Fermanagh v Armagh, Antrim v Tyrone, Tipperary v Waterford, Offaly v Donegal
Group D: Roscommon v Cavan, Limerick v Dublin, Louth v Wicklow, Leitrim v Monaghan
March 21/22
Group A: Cork v Sligo, Clare v London, Westmeath v Meath, Galway v Derry
Group B: Longford v Carlow, Kildare v Wexford, Laois v Kerry, Mayo v Down
Group C: Offaly v Antrim, Fermanagh v Waterford, Armagh v Donegal, Tyrone v Tipperary
Group D: Leitrim v Limerick, Roscommon v Wicklow, Cavan v Monaghan, Dublin v Louth
March 28/29
Group A: Westmeath v Galway, Meath v Clare, London v Cork, Sligo v Derry
Group B: Laois v Mayo, Kerry v Kildare, Wexford v Longford, Carlow v Down
Group C: Armagh v Tyrone, Donegal v Fermanagh, Waterford v Offaly, Antrim v Tipperary
Group D: Cavan v Dublin, Monaghan v Roscommon, Wicklow v Leitrim, Louth v Limerick
April 4/5
Break week
April 11/12
Group A: Cork v Clare, Galway v London, Sligo v Meath, Derry v Westmeath
Group B: Longford v Kildare, Mayo v Wexford, Carlow v Kerry, Down v Laois
Group C: Offaly v Fermanagh, Tyrone v Waterford, Antrim v Donegal, Tipperary v Armagh
Group D: Leitrim v Roscommon, Dublin v Wicklow, Limerick v Monaghan, Louth v Cavan
April 18/19
Group A: Meath v Derry, London v Sligo, Galway v Clare, Westmeath v Cork
Group B: Kerry v Down, Wexford v Carlow, Mayo v Kildare, Laois v Longford
Group C: Donegal v Tipperary, Waterford v Antrim, Tyrone v Fermanagh, Armagh v Offaly
Group D: Monaghan v Louth, Wicklow v Limerick, Dublin v Roscommon, Cavan v Leitrim
April 25/26
Group A: Westmeath v Sligo, Meath v London, Cork v Galway, Clare v Derry
Group B: Laois v Carlow, Kerry v Wexford, Longford v Mayo, Kildare v Down
Group C: Armagh v Antrim, Donegal v Waterford, Offaly v Tyrone, Fermanagh v Tipperary
Group D: Cavan v Limerick, Monaghan v Wicklow, Leitrim v Dublin, Roscommon v Louth
Championship schedule
- Either May 17 to June 28, or August 9 to September 20
- If May / June, club fixtures come in straight after inter-county championships end
- If August / September, inter-county teams break on April 26 and club league fixtures are played through May, June and early July, with club championships played from September 27 onwards
May 2/3: Break week
May 9/10: Break week
May 16/17
All-Ireland SFC and IFC round one (lowest ranked team at home where applicable)
All-Ireland SFC: Westmeath v Galway, Donegal v Mayo, Kildare v Dublin, Fermanagh v Roscommon, Tyrone v Galway, Cavan v Armagh, Laois v Monaghan, Clare v Kerry
All-Ireland IFC: Sligo v Derry, Waterford v Offaly, Louth v Down, Carlow v Cork, Limerick v Wicklow, Wexford v Longford, London v Leitrim, Antrim v Tipperary
May 23/24: Break week
May 30/31
All-Ireland SFC and IFC quarter-finals (neutral, games paired)
All-Ireland SFC: Tyrone v Kerry, Armagh v Dublin, Monaghan v Roscommon, Galway v Donegal
All-Ireland IFC: Down v Limerick, Cork v Tipperary, Offaly v Longford, Derry v Leitrim
June 6/7: Break week
June 13/14
All-Ireland SFC and IFC semi-finals
All-Ireland SFC: Kerry v Dublin, Monaghan v Donegal
All-Ireland IFC: Down v Cork, Longford v Derry
June 20/21: Break week
June 27/28
All-Ireland SFC final: Dublin v Donegal
All-Ireland IFC final: Cork v Derry
--------------------------------------------------------
ANTRIM manager Lenny Harbinson believes that the GAA must deal with the growing spending on inter-county teams by not only introducing a spending cap, but also having a minimum spend on coaching and clubs.
The debate around the amount of finance county boards are putting directly into county teams has intensified since GAA director general Tom Ryan revealed last week that the 2019 figure was €30m.
That represented an increase of almost 12 per cent in a single year, and matched up to the vast majority of the €36.1m the GAA brought in from gate receipts. That figure was boosted by the €3m from an All-Ireland football final replay, as well as an increase in ticket prices last year.
Harbinson, whose team have condensed their training down to just two nights a week and are doing double sessions of gym followed by pitch, says that not only must there be a spending cap on county squads, but that county boards must be held responsible for investing in other areas.
"Have a cap at one end and a minimum spend threshold at the other," said the Saffrons' boss.
ADVERTISING
Ads by Teads
"There should be a cap. It should be up to a value of £500,000 per code, to cover all their teams from development squads up.
"If Antrim want to spend £200,000 that's up to them, and if Dublin want to spend right up to the limit, that's ok.
"What they should be looking at is that every county, depending on their size and number of clubs, should have a minimum spend on coaching and a minimum amount going back into clubs.
"That might be £100,000. They have to show how they're putting money back into their own county, to get structures in place.
"You need to have a twin-track approach, where you can't overspend on your county teams and you must take a portion of the budget you have and make sure it's being invested in grassroots and clubs, to keep the heart of the organisation ticking over."
In a wide-ranging discussion in today's Irish News, Harbinson reveals his proposed structure for the championship and states his belief that the existence of provincial councils is one of the biggest barriers to progress in the GAA.
While accepting that some degree of spending on inter-county teams is an inevitability, Harbinson says that the four provincial bodies "have too much say... consequently, the GAA can't control things."
"For the greater good of the association, as a Gael, I don't want to see my own county or any county in financial trouble. That has big consequences.
"Similarly when you read reports about stadiums and whatever else, there are a lot of things wrong. The provincial boards probably have too much say and sway in lots of things. Consequently, the GAA can't control things.
"If you look at it from finance and fixtures, you have the tail wagging the dog. Central Council should be in control of everything and delegating it out to whatever departments, and regionalise it.
"But you have the Ulster Council and the others making their own fixtures and shoe-horning that into a national fixture list, and it's not fit for purpose in the 21st century. It's not working.
"Centralisation, with proper checks and balances, is how to run an organisation. Yes, you delegate out, but it all has to be controlled.
"All the GAA had to do was say 'thank you very much' to the provincial organisations.
"Ulster, let's say they run on a budget of £5m, to run schools, coaching, supporting the community, all of which they're very good at. I'm not saying do away with it, but what Central Council could do is take all the finances.
"They tell Ulster Council that they're granted £5m, but it's controlled centrally. Likewise do the same with the rest. Take all the provincial championships away.
"You can't do any of that while you have the provincial councils in place, controlling things, controlling fixtures, controlling stadium builds and wanting their slice of the cake."
* See P68-69 for Lenny Harbinson's plan to reshape the championship and the GAA's structures
Excellent thanks. Read that again in detail. It's very hard to pick any single point and find fault with it. Superb vision. Anyone care to share their thoughts. Is this achievable or is it all too futuristic.
The bit I like best is the cap on spending on preparing county teams and more into clubs and grass roots activity. Plus...the view that provincial boards are more of a hindrance than a help. Over €5million paid out last year in salaries across the country and what we have is a fixture congestion mess, county boards going bankrupt and about three or four teams realistically chasing the big prize. Our game is in turmoil in so many levels..something drastically needs to change .
Did he submit that to the Fixtures Review Committee? I know that splitting the year like that (first half county, second half club) and that format (4 groups of 8) were discussed. Think the 4 groups of 8 is one of the options on the table at Congress but the split year was not recommended by the Fixtures Review Committee though not a double round. 14 intercounty games in 17 weeks is just crazy. Leaving clubs without their stars for 6 months is not right in my opinion either, especially when they'll arrive back flaked out (most will doubtless want a break after that punishing schedule at the very least.
Personally I think moving the National football leagues, with an added knockout stage to become the Championship to the summer and provincial championships (on a round robin basis with a final) to spring would be awesome.
I take your point MS about county players returning burnt out to their clubs. I know it's not perfect but only 4 counties will be involved at the end of this schedule and in those counties a way should be found to give those players a week or two grace. After that for 8 counties involved in semi finals, the losers will get a month break before they are required for club duty. I understand it's not perfect but it's a massive improvement.
I'm nearly in agreement with Seanie :o :o (2nd time in a week....this will have to stop).
I would play the Leagues Feb to July with gap weeks for the Provincials played in the traditional knockout format.
That would require 11 weekends out of 23/24 leaving time for Club weekends.
The All Ireland SFC to comprise the 4 Provincial Champions, D3 Champions, D4 Champions and either 6 or 10 highest League teams. Straight knock out from there.
If we're to have a Tier 2 call it the All Ireland IFC but limit it to teams 2 to 6 in D3 and teams 2 to 4 in D4.
i've said it before but there is no point in keeping on changing the existing structures unless you know the outcome you want. hacks don't work.
what are the objectives and priorities of the changes? what do we want the gaa intercounty schedule to look like?
time for club and county fixtures at same time or not
more games against similar opposition
provisional championship system
min-max number of games per team
every team with a chance to win all ireland or not
seperate league and championship or not.
most profitable or most appealing to supporters
concurrent championship league or not
when you answer those type of questions and list them by priority then you can deliver a gaa season that meets its agree priorities and objectives.
think we have gone off topic.....
Off topic is right but Clubs/Counties have the Fixtures Review Committee proposals on front of them.
So over to them.
As for the forward mark... if it's to be kept it should be for an overhead catch inside the 20 and kicked from outside the 45.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2020, 11:42:37 AM
Off topic is right but Clubs/Counties have the Fixtures Review Committee proposals on front of them.
So over to them.
As for the forward mark... if it's to be kept it should be for an overhead catch inside the 20 and kicked from outside the 45.
To be fair the Fixtures Review Committee did a pretty good job. The review is well worth a read to understand the complexities involved. I think the proposals are pretty good in the main. Think they have outlined where they want to get to and how they propose to get there.
Unfortunately, I'd say the level of review at club and even county level isn't adequate.
Which is a major pity.
Yes, it is. The GAA does lots wrong and sometimes when it does things right it gets the communication wrong. It's unfortunate and adds to the feeling of alienation most regular GAA players/officials/supporters have.
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 19, 2020, 11:09:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 19, 2020, 10:38:58 PM
Okay, the advanced mark is 15 secs and your everyday plain mark is still 5 seconds.
Both still don't constitute a break in play so that a substitution can be made, do they?
Nope 15 seconds for all marks now.
If the player opts to play on, its not a break in play and substitutions aren't allowed.
If the player stops and takes the kick, it is a break in play and substitutions are allowed.
Quote2: For all marks (the advance mark and the kickout mark) the following provisions apply; the player will now be allowed 15 seconds to take the mark (it was 5 seconds previously). The opposing players must retreat 13m (it was 10m previously).
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/guide-to-new-the-gaelic-football-playing-rules/
Thanks twohands, well explained.
Somehow the reports on the decision to change from 5 seconds to 15 seconds completely passed me by.
When it comes to timekeeping, in that not enough talked about recent Monaghan Dublin encounter, ref Brannigan rightly stopped his clock in added time for disciplinary issues and the one injury. Twice he restarts play and presumably his clock also starts ticking again. On those 2 restart occcasions, Beggan took a kickout and secondly took a 50m free. From the time the ref indicates the restart, did Beggan still have his 20 or 30 seconds alloted to take each kick?
What's the deal with the forward mark and having to signal with the hand that you intend to take the free?
Seen it last week with Kildare where player lost the free kick from the mark because he didn't signal with the hand.
Also, can a player signal that he's taking the free from the mark, then play on or pass to a team mate? Or once signalled, he must take it?
Quote from: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 04:25:50 PM
What’s the deal with the forward mark and having to signal with the hand that you intend to take the free?
Seen it last week with Kildare where player lost the free kick from the mark because he didn’t signal with the hand.
Also, can a player signal that he’s taking the free from the mark, then play on or pass to a team mate? Or once signalled, he must take it?
qas long as he kicks it is that not the mark taken or does it have to travel a minimum distance?
Quote from: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 04:25:50 PM
What's the deal with the forward mark and having to signal with the hand that you intend to take the free?
Seen it last week with Kildare where player lost the free kick from the mark because he didn't signal with the hand.
Also, can a player signal that he's taking the free from the mark, then play on or pass to a team mate? Or once signalled, he must take it?
The ref will blow for the forward mark, it's up to the player to signal and stop (within reason) yesterday example in a challenge game I did, the players made the mark sorta thought about a pass but settled and took the score, had he passed the ball then it's continued play. Had he taken a few more steps then that's continued play. If he raises his hand calls mark he should kick for a score
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/a-lot-of-people-think-referees-are-getting-paid-we-get-absolutely-nothing-for-refereeing-above-in-croke-park-986874.html
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 07:06:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 04:25:50 PM
What's the deal with the forward mark and having to signal with the hand that you intend to take the free?
Seen it last week with Kildare where player lost the free kick from the mark because he didn't signal with the hand.
Also, can a player signal that he's taking the free from the mark, then play on or pass to a team mate? Or once signalled, he must take it?
The ref will blow for the forward mark, it's up to the player to signal and stop (within reason) yesterday example in a challenge game I did, the players made the mark sorta thought about a pass but settled and took the score, had he passed the ball then it's continued play. Had he taken a few more steps then that's continued play. If he raises his hand calls mark he should kick for a score
Should, or has to?
Quote from: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 11:23:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 07:06:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 04:25:50 PM
What's the deal with the forward mark and having to signal with the hand that you intend to take the free?
Seen it last week with Kildare where player lost the free kick from the mark because he didn't signal with the hand.
Also, can a player signal that he's taking the free from the mark, then play on or pass to a team mate? Or once signalled, he must take it?
The ref will blow for the forward mark, it's up to the player to signal and stop (within reason) yesterday example in a challenge game I did, the players made the mark sorta thought about a pass but settled and took the score, had he passed the ball then it's continued play. Had he taken a few more steps then that's continued play. If he raises his hand calls mark he should kick for a score
Should, or has to?
Has too
Not the case. You don't have to shoot for a score, you can pass to another teammate but they can't call a mark from this.
Quote from: The Bearded One on March 10, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Not the case. You don't have to shoot for a score, you can pass to another teammate but they can't call a mark from this.
Sorry your right, what I meant was he has to play the ball within the time, can't be a second mark though
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 07:20:02 AM
Quote from: The Bearded One on March 10, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Not the case. You don't have to shoot for a score, you can pass to another teammate but they can't call a mark from this.
Sorry your right, what I meant was he has to play the ball within the time, can't be a second mark though
Can't wait for the club leagues to start 8)
Quote from: The Bearded One on March 10, 2020, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 07:20:02 AM
Quote from: The Bearded One on March 10, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Not the case. You don't have to shoot for a score, you can pass to another teammate but they can't call a mark from this.
Sorry your right, what I meant was he has to play the ball within the time, can't be a second mark though
Can't wait for the club leagues to start 8)
I'd two games on Sunday, a mistake in both, not life threatening at the moment but I'd say come championship it will be bedlam
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 07:51:56 PM
Quote from: The Bearded One on March 10, 2020, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 07:20:02 AM
Quote from: The Bearded One on March 10, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Not the case. You don't have to shoot for a score, you can pass to another teammate but they can't call a mark from this.
Sorry your right, what I meant was he has to play the ball within the time, can't be a second mark though
Can't wait for the club leagues to start 8)
I'd two games on Sunday, a mistake in both, not life threatening at the moment but I'd say come championship it will be bedlam
Back at the football whistling myself this year - first time in 4 years. (have been refereeing hurling)
Jaysus what has football become!
3 games in and thankfully haven't make any obvious errors but early days.
From the 3 games (senior, U18) I can see the offensive mark being an issue in big club matches.
The black card and timings will be a disaster to keep an eye on, and multiple black cards will be carnage!
Good luck to us all for 2020 :)
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on March 11, 2020, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 07:51:56 PM
Quote from: The Bearded One on March 10, 2020, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 07:20:02 AM
Quote from: The Bearded One on March 10, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Not the case. You don't have to shoot for a score, you can pass to another teammate but they can't call a mark from this.
Sorry your right, what I meant was he has to play the ball within the time, can't be a second mark though
Can't wait for the club leagues to start 8)
I'd two games on Sunday, a mistake in both, not life threatening at the moment but I'd say come championship it will be bedlam
Back at the football whistling myself this year - first time in 4 years. (have been refereeing hurling)
Jaysus what has football become!
3 games in and thankfully haven't make any obvious errors but early days.
From the 3 games (senior, U18) I can see the offensive mark being an issue in big club matches.
The black card and timings will be a disaster to keep an eye on, and multiple black cards will be carnage!
Good luck to us all for 2020 :)
New score card available apparently which helps, wouldn't worry too much on the timing of the black cards, the coaches will be running on with their stop watches 'informing' you
It's the advanced mark which scares me!
Do the new rules apply to underage? How would the advance mark be figured out when not playing on a full pitch?
Quote from: StephenC on July 06, 2020, 09:36:18 AM
Do the new rules apply to underage? How would the advance mark be figured out when not playing on a full pitch?
Yes, they do.
But if a competition isn't going to follow the rulebook in terms of the dimensions of the pitch (which you are doing by playing on a reduced pitch) then I guess they can ignore whatever other rules they wish too, such as the attacking mark.
The new backpass rule.
Can a player pass the ball straight back to the keeper from the kickout, but the keeper just can't handle it? Can he fist it or hoof it away?
Quote from: BennyCake on July 06, 2020, 10:54:50 AM
The new backpass rule.
Can a player pass the ball straight back to the keeper from the kickout, but the keeper just can't handle it? Can he fist it or hoof it away?
Nope.
"Free is conceded when the goalkeeper plays the ball"
Quote from: BennyCake on July 06, 2020, 10:54:50 AM
The new backpass rule.
Can a player pass the ball straight back to the keeper from the kickout, but the keeper just can't handle it? Can he fist it or hoof it away?
If you've a player who wants to hit it back to the keeper after just receiving it for him to fist it or hoof it away then I'd take that defender off very quickly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJJhI61m1DI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVwePto531c
QuoteWATCH: The new kick-out and mark rules explained
Saturday 4 July 2020
By John Harrington
The GAA has produced two videos detailing how the new kick-out, kick-out mark, and advanced mark rules will work in Gaelic Football.
These videos are just one element of an education package that should ensure all referees are up to speed with the rule changes after a long period of inaction due to the Covid-19 pandemic.
"Since Covid-19 kicked in, for most referees it's 20 weeks since we've refereed you know, and even I as a club referee, (I know) it's going to be difficult getting back to it," says the GAA's National Match Officials Manager, Donal Smyth.
"For club referees we actually sent out a video that every club referee should have got last week and that contained mental health advice, advice in relation to how to get back up the fitness, and the pathway going forward.
"This week we'll be sending out a video for hurling and football. Two separate videos that will allow them look at their new rules as part of an in-service that they can get up to date on the rules, up to date on some of the stuff for going forward in relation to the new rules.
"It'll be like their in-service they did, but it will be done with a video that they can download themselves and they can watch it back at any stage.
"They should ensure that the Referee's Administrator gets that out to them this week or especially next week before competitive games start because all the new rules are explained and it'll help them get back into thinking about the game.
"We will be getting the information out regarding the new rules on YouTube videos to county boards and to all clubs.
"In the last eight months we've have a real change. We've had the new kick out rule we've had an advance mark and all those things were played in the National League.
"But since Congress 2020 we got two more rules. We got the one in relation to the kick out and the other thing is there's a slight change in the advance mark."
The kick-out and mark rules are explained below.
Kick-out rule
The ball will be kicked from the ground from the centre of the 20M line. The ball must be kicked forward. All players shall be outside the 20 metres line, outside the semi-cirlce arc, and 13 metres from the ball.
If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, he must remain within the small rectangle. The ball shall not travel less than 13 metres and outside the 20 metre line before being played by another member of the defending team.
A further change was made at GAA Congress 2020. A player in direct receipt of a kick-out may not pass the ball to his team's goalkeeper without another player playing the ball.
A breach of this rule would be a technical foul by the goalkeeper. Under the new rule, this would be a free against the goalkeeper.
If a defender kicks out the ball, the rule does not prevent the ball being kicked back to this defender.
Kick-out mark and advanced mark rules
There have been some changes to the kick-out mark which will align the kick-out mark with the advanced mark. The referee awards the mark by blowing his whistle.
The player will now claim the mark by putting his arm in the air. The player now has 15 seconds to take the mark, previous it was 5 seconds.
If in exceptional circumstances the player cannot take the mark awarded from the kick-out, the nearest team-mate will take the free kick and can score from it. The defending player must retreat 13 metres from the taker, previously it was 10 metres.
The kick-out mark is also designated a set-play. With the advanced mark those conditions apply but certain things must happen for a player to be awarded a mark.
The ball must be kicked by an attacking player, not from a set play, which is a kick-out mark, side-line ball, or from a free. The ball must travel 20M or more from outside the 45M line to a player inside the 45M line. The ball must be caught cleanly without touching the ground, and a defender can claim the mark also.
The referee awards the mark by blowing his whistle and the player claims it by putting up his arm. If a player claims the mark inside the 13 Metre line the ball must be taken out to the 13 Metre line directly in line where the mark was awarded.
If the player decides to play on, as with the kick-out mark, he cannot be tackled for four steps or the length of time it takes to travel four steps and/or makes one act of kicking, hand-passing, bouncing, or toe-tapping the ball.
There is one exception to this, when the ball is caught inside the large rectangle including the small rectangle, he can be tackled immediately. This was changed at GAA Congress 2020.
I read the last line of the bit in bold and it made me a bit confused (easily done says you) - to me this looks like if a player other than a goal-keeper takes a kickout, this player can receive the ball back directly back from their team-mate. There is a rule that a keeper has to be in the small square if they are not taking the kickout.
I went to have a look at the rules and regulations on the GAA website and the actual wording of the rule is.
QuoteA player in direct receipt of a kick-out may not pass the ball to his team's goalkeeper without another player playing the ball.
The rule about the keeper not taking the kick-out is as follows.
QuoteIf the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, he shall stay in the small rectangle, and all other players, except the player taking the kick-out, shall be outside the 20m line, outside the semicircular arc and 13m from the ball until it has been kicked.
This means that in situations where a team taking a kick-out isn't being pushed up on by the other team, they could have a defender take a short one to an unmarked defender, who could pass it back to his team-mate who could then pop it back to the goal-keeper. Seems strange that this would be allowed. It will be interesting to see if teams actually do this on occasion - there's been numerous times in games the last few years where teams haven't pushed up on the opposition's kickouts even when behind.
The tackling/no tackling/play-on four steps or equivalent is an abomination of a rule in terms of putting the referees in the firing line. I'd say if you sat down with the aim of coming up with a rule designed to shaft referees you'd be hard-pressed to do worse than this. What happens if a player catches a ball in the air inside the large rectangle but lands outside; what happens in the reverse scenario - catches the ball outside and lands inside - lands exactly on the line - lands with one foot in and one foot out. There's no clarity for all this situations and that's before you get into the situations where the ref gets it wrong. It is an inevitably that this rule will end up deciding tight games before long.
Catches the ball, I'll take my interpretation as if he's catching not where he lands, If he lands at or out doesn't matter, it's the catching of it for me. And a ref on his own in a club league game will call it and that will be that. Managers supporter and player will just have accept that. I know they won't and keep up with play will come into that.
Though I'd love to challenge the gobshite to a fitness test ;D ;D
If clubs or counties are going to over elaborate their kick out to just confuse people then they need to wise up
1. Defender takes kickout. Kicks the ball sideways along the 21 yard line, keeper sprints out of the square to pick up the ball and proceed upfield. Is that allowed?
2. What if there's a gale. Keeper kicks out and the gale blows ball back inside the 21. What then?
3. Keeper kicks ball out, accidentally hits one of his defenders on back of the head and ball comes back to him. Can he gather it?
Quote from: BennyCake on July 06, 2020, 09:40:44 PM
1. Defender takes kickout. Kicks the ball sideways along the 21 yard line, keeper sprints out of the square to pick up the ball and proceed upfield. Is that allowed?
2. What if there's a gale. Keeper kicks out and the gale blows ball back inside the 21. What then?
3. Keeper kicks ball out, accidentally hits one of his defenders on back of the head and ball comes back to him. Can he gather it?
1. Don't see any reason why not
2. Hop ball if played by the defending team?
3. The rule states "the player who directly receives the ball from a kick-out cannot pass the ball back to the goalkeeper without another person playing it". In your case I don't think the defender "passed" the ball back. So should be OK.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 06, 2020, 10:54:50 AM
The new backpass rule.
Can a player pass the ball straight back to the keeper from the kickout, but the keeper just can't handle it? Can he fist it or hoof it away?
This is being rolled out in the county championship this year only, not club , yes?
Quote from: JoG2 on July 07, 2020, 09:03:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 06, 2020, 10:54:50 AM
The new backpass rule.
Can a player pass the ball straight back to the keeper from the kickout, but the keeper just can't handle it? Can he fist it or hoof it away?
This is being rolled out in the county championship this year only, not club , yes?
No, it's also in for club games
Don't think the advanced mark will be too problematic other than bad positioning on the part of the referee.
I refereed 5 games before they stopped activity and in each game there was 1 adv mark given, but not taken.
Again the kick-outs wont be a major problem in my opinion. Referees should speak to keepers prior to game or on the first opportunity in the game and quickly run them through the rule - keepers will appreciate this and in most cases coaches wont have told them the correct rule.
The new sinbin will be problematic doing a game on my own. Outside of refs meeting and with coaches/manager I have debated whether we would see more or less blacks shown as easier for a ref to sinbin for 10mins than end his game maybe in the earlier stages of a game. General consensus was less will be shown as could be too much of an imposition on a referee unless he has neutrals with him on line and posts to help keep him right.
Im looking forward to getting back at it again - first match on Thursday evening...
When is contact training allowed in the North for underage?
I cannot see any guidance lately or dates for contact
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 07, 2020, 09:30:28 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 07, 2020, 09:03:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 06, 2020, 10:54:50 AM
The new backpass rule.
Can a player pass the ball straight back to the keeper from the kickout, but the keeper just can't handle it? Can he fist it or hoof it away?
This is being rolled out in the county championship this year only, not club , yes?
No, it's also in for club games
Thanks Smokin, could only see this rule in relation to the forthcoming county championship
Quote from: Taylor on July 07, 2020, 01:55:54 PM
When is contact training allowed in the North for underage?
I cannot see any guidance lately or dates for contact
It's already allowed for underage in the 6
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 07, 2020, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: Taylor on July 07, 2020, 01:55:54 PM
When is contact training allowed in the North for underage?
I cannot see any guidance lately or dates for contact
It's already allowed for underage in the 6
Was there any official communication for this Joe?
Quote from: Taylor on July 07, 2020, 04:56:20 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 07, 2020, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: Taylor on July 07, 2020, 01:55:54 PM
When is contact training allowed in the North for underage?
I cannot see any guidance lately or dates for contact
It's already allowed for underage in the 6
Was there any official communication for this Joe?
It's in one of the FAQs on the gaa website:
QUESTION
When can Clubs return to contact training and challenge games?
ANSWER
• Contact training can resume from 29 June for all Adult and Juvenile teams in the 32 counties
• Challenge games can resume from 29 June for the 26 Counties
• Challenge games can resume from 17 July for the 6 Counties
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 07, 2020, 05:29:32 PM
Quote from: Taylor on July 07, 2020, 04:56:20 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 07, 2020, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: Taylor on July 07, 2020, 01:55:54 PM
When is contact training allowed in the North for underage?
I cannot see any guidance lately or dates for contact
It's already allowed for underage in the 6
Was there any official communication for this Joe?
It's in one of the FAQs on the gaa website:
QUESTION
When can Clubs return to contact training and challenge games?
ANSWER
• Contact training can resume from 29 June for all Adult and Juvenile teams in the 32 counties
• Challenge games can resume from 29 June for the 26 Counties
• Challenge games can resume from 17 July for the 6 Counties
:D yeah right!
A lot of clubs near the border are playing challenges against Monaghan and Cavan clubs I believe.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2020, 06:16:38 PM
A lot of clubs near the border are playing challenges against Monaghan and Cavan clubs I believe.
Yes and the teams travelling are covered insurance wise, so no problem there. It's the games within the 6 counties, teams could land themselves in some bother insurance wise.
You can play as many in house games as you like, organised correctly they can be very competitive
During a sin bin is the referee supposed to add on time for stoppages due to injuries that occur during the 10 minute sin bin period?
I had thought that the sinbin clock wasn't supposed to stop, but at a game over the weekend the referee extended the 10 minute sinbin period for stoppages.
What is supposed to happen?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 27, 2020, 01:57:15 PM
During a sin bin is the referee supposed to add on time for stoppages due to injuries that occur during the 10 minute sin bin period?
At the referees discretion.
I saw an incident yesterday , where in a 10 min s sin bin, therecwad 5 mins of actual game time , due to injuries , fouling, another black card , subs made and indeed the water break @
I had thought that the sinbin clock wasn't supposed to stop, but at a game over the weekend the referee extended the 10 minute sinbin period for stoppages.
What is supposed to happen?
At the referees discretion.
I saw an incident yesterday , where in the 10 min sin bin, there was 5 mins of actual game time , due to injuries , fouling, another black card , subs made and indeed the water break.
The time is ten minutes regardless of stoppages, that was before lockdown, I thought about the water stoppage also during sin bin, whether there has been an amendment I don't know but it's meant to be ten minutes and the player enters at next break of play, after the ten has elapsed.
If there are breaks during the game the ref will just add them on at the end of each half.
The ref said that he was extending the sin bin for injury stoppages as well as the water break. No issue with the extension for the water break, but I thought the ref got it wrong in extending the sin bin for other stoppages.
Can a ref send off an umpire if he doesn't wave the flag for a score?
Ref kept blowing the whistle when there was a clean catch from a kickout which made our lads stop.
Then when they didn't raise their hand he blew them for overcarrying FFS!!!
I presume that isn't the way it supposed to be he should only blow if the player raises their hand??!!
The ref blows when there is a clean catch which is eligible for mark. The player can either play through it or take the "free kick" by raising his hand.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 27, 2020, 11:29:15 PM
The ref blows when there is a clean catch which is eligible for mark. The player can either play through it or take the "free kick" by raising his hand.
Jesus you're right I just checked it out... This is our 3rd match in the last week and no ref had done it like this previously which is why the confusion!!
Will know for again hopefully!
If you take a catch inside the small square you can still call a mark can't you? The only thing is you must come to the 13m line to hit it.
Is that correct?
We were told yesterday there was no mark inside the small square which I think is incorrect but not 100%. New rules are a lot for refs to absorb!
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on July 28, 2020, 01:43:26 AM
If you take a catch inside the small square you can still call a mark can't you? The only thing is you must come to the 13m line to hit it.
Is that correct?
We were told yesterday there was no mark inside the small square which I think is incorrect but not 100%. New rules are a lot for refs to absorb!
Correct
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on July 28, 2020, 01:43:26 AM
If you take a catch inside the small square you can still call a mark can't you? The only thing is you must come to the 13m line to hit it.
Is that correct?
We were told yesterday there was no mark inside the small square which I think is incorrect but not 100%. New rules are a lot for refs to absorb!
Any man that catches a ball in the small square and doesnt have a rattle at the goal should be standing beside me on the line
Quote from: Taylor on July 28, 2020, 08:00:27 AM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on July 28, 2020, 01:43:26 AM
If you take a catch inside the small square you can still call a mark can't you? The only thing is you must come to the 13m line to hit it.
Is that correct?
We were told yesterday there was no mark inside the small square which I think is incorrect but not 100%. New rules are a lot for refs to absorb!
Any man that catches a ball in the small square and doesnt have a rattle at the goal should be standing beside me on the line
Was thinking that myself!
Well if the full back or keeper catches the ball in the small square he should call a mark, and not have a rattle!
I blow for every clean catch, up to the player to make the signal for the mark, if he doesn't, play on
Quote from: Taylor on July 28, 2020, 08:00:27 AM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on July 28, 2020, 01:43:26 AM
If you take a catch inside the small square you can still call a mark can't you? The only thing is you must come to the 13m line to hit it.
Is that correct?
We were told yesterday there was no mark inside the small square which I think is incorrect but not 100%. New rules are a lot for refs to absorb!
Any man that catches a ball in the small square and doesnt have a rattle at the goal should be standing beside me on the line
Unless you're 3 points up with a minute to go of course.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 28, 2020, 11:02:48 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 28, 2020, 08:00:27 AM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on July 28, 2020, 01:43:26 AM
If you take a catch inside the small square you can still call a mark can't you? The only thing is you must come to the 13m line to hit it.
Is that correct?
We were told yesterday there was no mark inside the small square which I think is incorrect but not 100%. New rules are a lot for refs to absorb!
Any man that catches a ball in the small square and doesnt have a rattle at the goal should be standing beside me on the line
Unless you're 3 points up with a minute to go of course.
Or you catch it falling forward and end up on the ground with the full back standing over you.
Thimas Davis had a goal ruled out because the scorer had lost his gumshield.
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/thomas-davis-goal-disallowed-gumshield-skerries-harps-442903
I think the ref got that stunningly wrong
Did the ref blow before he took shot?
It's a very grey area on the rules. I personally don't enforce it unless it's blatantly obvious, like when they start slabbering ;D
Seen a few debates on this and most sided with the ref
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 09:26:17 AM
Did the ref blow before he took shot?
It's a very grey area on the rules. I personally don't enforce it unless it's blatantly obvious, like when they start slabbering ;D
Seen a few debates on this and most sided with the ref
No. He spotted the lack of gumshield when tbe lad ran back past him.
The rules clearly say you caution a non complaint player
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 09, 2020, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 09:26:17 AM
Did the ref blow before he took shot?
It's a very grey area on the rules. I personally don't enforce it unless it's blatantly obvious, like when they start slabbering ;D
Seen a few debates on this and most sided with the ref
No. He spotted the lack of gumshield when tbe lad ran back past him.
The rules clearly say you caution a non complaint player
Had he been asked previously to put in gum shield? On that footage there doesn't seem to be much complaints, he's running over to sideline to put in the gun shield he should have had in from start!
Either way it's might cost them against Ballymun in the next match, he'll be wearing one then I'd hope
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 09, 2020, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 09:26:17 AM
Did the ref blow before he took shot?
It's a very grey area on the rules. I personally don't enforce it unless it's blatantly obvious, like when they start slabbering ;D
Seen a few debates on this and most sided with the ref
No. He spotted the lack of gumshield when tbe lad ran back past him.
The rules clearly say you caution a non complaint player
Had he been asked previously to put in gum shield? On that footage there doesn't seem to be much complaints, he's running over to sideline to put in the gun shield he should have had in from start!
Either way it's might cost them against Ballymun in the next match, he'll be wearing one then I'd hope
But the rules don't allow for a foul to be given, only a booking. You can't overturn a play because he has no gumshield
I saw a free given for a CB kicking the ball back to the keeper after a kick out - fair enough under the following rules (from rthe GAA webste)
KICK OUT
1: The kick-out is to be taken from the 20-metre line, from the centre-point, and from the ground.
2: The ball cannot be kicked backwards.
3: All players shall be outside the 20-metre line, outside the semi-circle, and 13 metres from the ball until it has been kicked.
4: The ball shall travel not less than 13 metres and outside the 20-metre line before being played by another player of the defending team.
5: If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, he shall stay within the small rectangle and all other players except the player taking the kick-out shall be outside the 20-metre line and 13 metres from the ball.
It specifies 'kicked' though- so is it the case that the ball can be handpassed back to the keeper from a kick out?
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 11:55:49 AM
I saw a free given for a CB kicking the ball back to the keeper after a kick out - fair enough under the following rules (from rthe GAA webste)
KICK OUT
1: The kick-out is to be taken from the 20-metre line, from the centre-point, and from the ground.
2: The ball cannot be kicked backwards.
3: All players shall be outside the 20-metre line, outside the semi-circle, and 13 metres from the ball until it has been kicked.
4: The ball shall travel not less than 13 metres and outside the 20-metre line before being played by another player of the defending team.
5: If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, he shall stay within the small rectangle and all other players except the player taking the kick-out shall be outside the 20-metre line and 13 metres from the ball.
It specifies 'kicked' though- so is it the case that the ball can be handpassed back to the keeper from a kick out?
No. That "kicked backwards" point you highlighted refers to the GK kickout, ie the kickout cannot go backwards. It is not referring to the subsequent pass back from the corner back.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 10, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 09, 2020, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 09:26:17 AM
Did the ref blow before he took shot?
It's a very grey area on the rules. I personally don't enforce it unless it's blatantly obvious, like when they start slabbering ;D
Seen a few debates on this and most sided with the ref
No. He spotted the lack of gumshield when tbe lad ran back past him.
The rules clearly say you caution a non complaint player
Had he been asked previously to put in gum shield? On that footage there doesn't seem to be much complaints, he's running over to sideline to put in the gun shield he should have had in from start!
Either way it's might cost them against Ballymun in the next match, he'll be wearing one then I'd hope
But the rules don't allow for a foul to be given, only a booking. You can't overturn a play because he has no gumshield
A referee can stop play if he feels there is a danger to a player... take from that what you want.
I personally wouldn't have done it but it happens
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 12:03:46 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 10, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 09, 2020, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 09:26:17 AM
Did the ref blow before he took shot?
It's a very grey area on the rules. I personally don't enforce it unless it's blatantly obvious, like when they start slabbering ;D
Seen a few debates on this and most sided with the ref
No. He spotted the lack of gumshield when tbe lad ran back past him.
The rules clearly say you caution a non complaint player
Had he been asked previously to put in gum shield? On that footage there doesn't seem to be much complaints, he's running over to sideline to put in the gun shield he should have had in from start!
Either way it's might cost them against Ballymun in the next match, he'll be wearing one then I'd hope
But the rules don't allow for a foul to be given, only a booking. You can't overturn a play because he has no gumshield
A referee can stop play if he feels there is a danger to a player... take from that what you want.
I personally wouldn't have done it but it happens
Not sure you are following this...
I am... the referee brought back play after noticing a player was not wearing his gum shield.. disallowed the goal and made the player go get his gum shield..
Was he right? Probably not, the decision was taken and he can't go back on that... move on..
Calls are made incorrectly all the time up and down the country, I got caught out on a couple yesterday, apologised and moved on.
Players also make bad mistakes, like not wearing shields when this rule has been about for a while and it's there to protect the players. He'll not forget it again.
Say a player plays in a junior final and gets a straight red card but his team wins and so goes to intermediate next year.
The player receives "a one match suspension in the same Code at the same Level, applicable to the next game in the same Competition, even if that game occur's in the following year's competition."
Is that player suspended for the first game in next year's Intermediate championship, or does the suspension not apply because it's at a different level?
And in which case, the suspension would never be served because it would be at least 2 years before the player plays again in an Intermediate championship match.
It carries over to the next IFC match. Another good example is an U21 gets a straight red in last ever U21 championship game, it carries over to next adult championship game in that code .
OK, I see how that makes sense practically, but struggling to see how that works given the wording.
What is the definition of "Level" and "Competition" as used in the rule.
Code obviously refers to football or hurling.
But surely U21 and Senior or not the same Level and Competition?
What if a ladies player gets a red card, and get a suspension, then gets married and changes her surname. Could she technically play in the next match under her new name, as the referees report would have her maiden name?
Quote from: BennyCake on September 14, 2020, 04:31:04 PM
What if a ladies player gets a red card, and get a suspension, then gets married and changes her surname. Could she technically play in the next match under her new name, as the referees report would have her maiden name?
Or changes gender? There'll some yoyo's at that no doubt!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 14, 2020, 04:45:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 14, 2020, 04:31:04 PM
What if a ladies player gets a red card, and get a suspension, then gets married and changes her surname. Could she technically play in the next match under her new name, as the referees report would have her maiden name?
Or changes gender? There'll some yoyo's at that no doubt!!
It's a bit extreme to do that just to avoid a match suspension ;D
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 14, 2020, 03:18:47 PM
OK, I see how that makes sense practically, but struggling to see how that works given the wording.
What is the definition of "Level" and "Competition" as used in the rule.
Code obviously refers to football or hurling.
But surely U21 and Senior or not the same Level and Competition?
It's likely that a final year U21 is playing senior football in most clubs
Any rules against lewd sexual acts commited on the pitch?
The violence was bad enough at the end of the Dublin semi final Ballymun v Crokes, but even more horrific was the disturbing. scene of sexual activity after a peculiar mating ritual in the lead up to this Covid bonking.
The Ballymun player ended up frantically riding his opponent doggy style as if he had to get it all done and dusted in ten seconds flat. Not even 3 players could pull him away from his task. A bucket or two of water might have cooled the passion down.
The whole thing kicks off at the 54 second mark
https://www.dublinlive.ie/sport/gaa/watch-ballymun-kickhams-kilmacud-crokes-18928555 (https://www.dublinlive.ie/sport/gaa/watch-ballymun-kickhams-kilmacud-crokes-18928555)
Quote from: delgany on September 14, 2020, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 14, 2020, 03:18:47 PM
OK, I see how that makes sense practically, but struggling to see how that works given the wording.
What is the definition of "Level" and "Competition" as used in the rule.
Code obviously refers to football or hurling.
But surely U21 and Senior or not the same Level and Competition?
It's likely that a final year U21 is playing senior football in most clubs
True. But I still don't see how that is relevant as the suspension is for that same Level in the same Competition. If it said the next game in the Code then it obviously would be served in his next game.
Level and Competition are capitalized in the rulebook, so I assume they must be a definition. I just can't locate those definitions.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 14, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 14, 2020, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 14, 2020, 03:18:47 PM
OK, I see how that makes sense practically, but struggling to see how that works given the wording.
What is the definition of "Level" and "Competition" as used in the rule.
Code obviously refers to football or hurling.
But surely U21 and Senior or not the same Level and Competition?
It's likely that a final year U21 is playing senior football in most clubs
True. But I still don't see how that is relevant as the suspension is for that same Level in the same Competition. If it said the next game in the Code then it obviously would be served in his next game.
Level and Competition are capitalized in the rulebook, so I assume they must be a definition. I just can't locate those definitions.
Official Guide Part 1 page 128.
Refers to a two week suspension for a
Red card that is carried over, outside an age grade, subject to application by respective CCC body .
So an escape is possible dependent on fixtures, time of year
Probably been done to death at this stage, but if the keeper kicks the ball out and gets it straight back to him from the defender is it a free or hop ball? Also if the keeper kicks it out and it doesn't cross the 13metre line is that a hop ball or free in?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 16, 2020, 01:29:02 PM
Probably been done to death at this stage, but if the keeper kicks the ball out and gets it straight back to him from the defender is it a free or hop ball? Also if the keeper kicks it out and it doesn't cross the 13metre line is that a hop ball or free in?
Free and the other one is a hop ball
Interesting one tonight...
A Kingscourt player caught ball above his head cleanly, but man was holding him, and he couldn't raise his hand in time to signal he was taking the mark. Referee blew him up for overcarrying.
Was that the correct call?
Should a player also be able to shout 'mark' in such instances?
i didnt see the replay but i believe the pass was from inside the 45.... not sure why it was a free out though.
McConville corrected himself eventually after a major rant earlier.
Faulkner hadn't much luck with the ref right enough.
I'd imagine the free was for standing still with the ball in his hands.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on September 26, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
i didnt see the replay but i believe the pass was from inside the 45.... not sure why it was a free out though.
So if the ball was played from outside the 50... what's the verdict?
Quote from: BennyCake on September 26, 2020, 09:35:45 PM
Interesting one tonight...
A Kingscourt player caught ball above his head cleanly, but man was holding him, and he couldn't raise his hand in time to signal he was taking the mark. Referee blew him up for overcarrying.
Was that the correct call?
Should a player also be able to shout 'mark' in such instances?
Yet another addition to the long list of poorly drafted GAA rules.
The current rules say
QuoteThe player shall signify to the Referee if he is availing of the free-kick by immediately raising his arm upright and then taking the kick himself from the hands.
That's all there is about a player claiming a mark.
The powers-that-be could have made life easier for everyone by adding a single extra line to the rules.
[In the event that the player is not able to raise his arm upright immediately, he can avail of the mark by calling out "mark"]
In a crowded, noisy stadium, he might not be heard calling 'mark' though. Also, if another/same opponent has his hands across his mouth, he can't shout it either.
Maybe he could stamp his foot twice to call a mark.
Cork Kilkenny camogie match blown up more than 2 minutes early.
Grounds for appeal surely?
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
Cork Kilkenny camogie match blown up more than 2 minutes early.
Grounds for appeal surely?
Didn't watch it but it all depends on the refs watch, not the one on tv.
Having refereed a televised match, the tv watched during the water breaks us were the break down occurs.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
Cork Kilkenny camogie match blown up more than 2 minutes early.
Grounds for appeal surely?
More than two minutes before the end of the regulation 60 minutes or more than two minutes before the end of the advertised amount of injury time?
Quote from: sid waddell on November 28, 2020, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
Cork Kilkenny camogie match blown up more than 2 minutes early.
Grounds for appeal surely?
More than two minutes before the end of the regulation 60 minutes or more than two minutes before the end of the advertised amount of injury time?
4 minutes injury time allocated. Ref blew up around 61.50.
Can't believe the commentators haven't grasped that the water break is the reason for the apparent discretion. It happened a couple of weeks ago too.
The ref didn't stop his watch during the water break, but RTE did.
It would be good for the GAA to give direction as to whether the noted injury time stated is based on a stopped or a running clock during the water break.
If you're on the line and trying to make a sub towards the end of the game it's good to know how when you expect the game to be over having heard the number of additional minutes to be played.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on November 28, 2020, 03:48:58 PM
Can't believe the commentators haven't grasped that the water break is the reason for the apparent discretion. It happened a couple of weeks ago too.
The ref didn't stop his watch during the water break, but RTE did.
It would be good for the GAA to give direction as to whether the noted injury time stated is based on a stopped or a running clock during the water break.
If you're on the line and trying to make a sub towards the end of the game it's good to know how when you expect the game to be over having heard the number of additional minutes to be played.
So there was no issue. RTE messed up. As for officials putting on subs the fourth official is in verbal contact with the ref constantly.
Anyone know when or if there will be a review of the rule changes they brought in? I don't mind the gk kick out rule not goin back to the keeper but the advance mark is the worst rule ever, gets on my nerves seeing players getting out and winning good ball and then the hand goes up and the game stops. They then take 2-3 toe taps and stick it over. I miss seeing a Canavan winning the ball and turning a man and swinging it over or heading for goal. I would do anything to see that rule being done away with.
Also, watching games recently, anyone think that the advantage rule is too long? I like it in soccer where it's pretty much If the next pass is messed up or not an instant advantage then it's brought back. In GAA you seem to get an advantage play a few passes and a shot and can still bring it back, nothing worse than a defending team busting your balls to block down an attack and then it gets brought back anyway for an easy score.
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2020, 12:46:24 PM
I've said it on here before but the advantage rule is wrong IMO.
It should be the advantage or the free, not both.
Giving the advantage, the ref has decided that the attacking team is in a better position than they would be if he gives the free. If they go on to balls that up, the chance should be gone in the same way that it would be if they missed the free.
If the attacking team would prefer the free, like the mark there should be some way of indicating this to the ref. Therefore, if the attacking team decides to play on then they've no complaints when it doesn't work out for them.
Agree completely, the advantage goes for ages, the amount of times a team is playin on and a defender makes a class block or tackle only for it to be brought back for a free 10 seconds ago for it to be tapped over is infuriating, if you play a pass or take a shot then you've tried to take advantage, just cause ya mess it up shouldn't get it brought back. A wee change should be one the fouled player plays the ball on the advantage is over, so if he plays a pass or takes a shot then the advantage is over
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 03:20:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 28, 2020, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
Cork Kilkenny camogie match blown up more than 2 minutes early.
Grounds for appeal surely?
More than two minutes before the end of the regulation 60 minutes or more than two minutes before the end of the advertised amount of injury time?
4 minutes injury time allocated. Ref blew up around 61.50.
Referees discretion
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 29, 2020, 01:48:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 03:20:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 28, 2020, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
Cork Kilkenny camogie match blown up more than 2 minutes early.
Grounds for appeal surely?
More than two minutes before the end of the regulation 60 minutes or more than two minutes before the end of the advertised amount of injury time?
4 minutes injury time allocated. Ref blew up around 61.50.
Referees discretion
It seems it was the RTE clock that was the issue yesterday. So that explains that.
I can understand the ref adding more time to the allocated injury time, to accommodate for injuries/subs etc, that happened during the injury time.
But if the timekeepers have stated that say, 5 minutes injury time should be played, and the ref blows it up after 2 minutes injury time, you think that's ok??
Quote from: BennyCake on November 29, 2020, 03:47:39 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 29, 2020, 01:48:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 03:20:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 28, 2020, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 28, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
Cork Kilkenny camogie match blown up more than 2 minutes early.
Grounds for appeal surely?
More than two minutes before the end of the regulation 60 minutes or more than two minutes before the end of the advertised amount of injury time?
4 minutes injury time allocated. Ref blew up around 61.50.
Referees discretion
It seems it was the RTE clock that was the issue yesterday. So that explains that.
I can understand the ref adding more time to the allocated injury time, to accommodate for injuries/subs etc, that happened during the injury time.
But if the timekeepers have stated that say, 5 minutes injury time should be played, and the ref blows it up after 2 minutes injury time, you think that's ok??
Which timekeepers? RTE or the ref?
A beef I have with how the advantage is often used-
Johnny is fouled about 60 m out, Ref sticks up the paw for advantage, Johnny runs on 15 m and is fouled again while Ref has the hand up.
Ref brings the play back for the original foul disadvantaging Johnny's team.
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2020, 06:56:19 PM
He's asking can the ref just decide not to play the added time put up on the board by the sideline official, as could be understood from Baile Brigin's "referee's discretion" post.
I.e if 5 minutes goes up on the board, can the ref just wrap it up after 3?
To be clear, he is not suggesting that this happened in the camogie match but is asking it as a general question.
I imagine the sideline official gets the time to be added from the ref so really the question is - can he just change his mind and play less? It would be an odd thing to do.
If the ref says 5 minutes he must play a minimum of 5 minutes, that 5 minutes can be 8 or more depending what happens during the additional time.
The players will know what time is left, as they'd be asking flat out after the allocated time, and if the players know so will the managers.
There's only one watch (or two now as refs have) that counts and that's the refs.
Ladies football use The countdown clock, I'm personally not in favour of it tbh, not as a refs viewpoint as that would be one area made better, but if a team worked the clock to have injuries and the like it would be annoying as a player manager and supporter
Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2020, 07:03:06 PM
A beef I have with how the advantage is often used-
Johnny is fouled about 60 m out, Ref sticks up the paw for advantage, Johnny runs on 15 m and is fouled again while Ref has the hand up.
Ref brings the play back for the original foul disadvantaging Johnny's team.
The advantage rule can work really well and before it most refs used the 'slow whistle' a player nowadays can cover up to 30 metres in five seconds if going full pelt with the ball, so the ref has some wriggle room to either allow advantage or if he's fouled again, say advantage over and blow for another free. Meaning he can take it from a better position.
As for the other call on if he's taken a shot and missed during advantage then where's the advantage?
He's got 5 seconds, that's the rule, guy catches ball in square fouled but instinctively turns and shoots, missed or saved you're happy to play on?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 07:05:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2020, 06:56:19 PM
He's asking can the ref just decide not to play the added time put up on the board by the sideline official, as could be understood from Baile Brigin's "referee's discretion" post.
I.e if 5 minutes goes up on the board, can the ref just wrap it up after 3?
To be clear, he is not suggesting that this happened in the camogie match but is asking it as a general question.
I imagine the sideline official gets the time to be added from the ref so really the question is - can he just change his mind and play less? It would be an odd thing to do.
If the ref says 5 minutes he must play a minimum of 5 minutes, that 5 minutes can be 8 or more depending what happens during the additional time.
The players will know what time is left, as they'd be asking flat out after the allocated time, and if the players know so will the managers.
There's only one watch (or two now as refs have) that counts and that's the refs.
Ladies football use The countdown clock, I'm personally not in favour of it tbh, not as a refs viewpoint as that would be one area made better, but if a team worked the clock to have injuries and the like it would be annoying as a player manager and supporter
Just stop the clock every time there's an injury, like they do in rugby....That'd be far better than what we currently have where the time is often not added on at the end
Before Covid and water breaks, all refs would stop the clock, so at the final short whistle it will say 30 mins, second half the time on watch will be 30 minutes...
Those that use two watches let the other watch run at the start of each half... just in case they forget to restart other watch :o
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2020, 07:28:31 PM
The advantage is where a team are in a better position to score than they would be if the free was given. A team can waste their advantage in the same way that they can waste their free but that's their own doing.
I don't think you should be given 2 shots for 1 foul.
that's prob the best way ive seen it put
Quote from: themac_23 on November 30, 2020, 08:09:56 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2020, 07:28:31 PM
The advantage is where a team are in a better position to score than they would be if the free was given. A team can waste their advantage in the same way that they can waste their free but that's their own doing.
I don't think you should be given 2 shots for 1 foul.
that's prob the best way ive seen it put
I must try that at a game hardstation is at and see if the general consensus is the same among his clubmen
I actually think the advantage rule is good although 5s is perhaps too long, maybe 3s would be better as there are times when it seems to be very long. Anything that discourages foul play is surely a good thing
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 30, 2020, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 30, 2020, 08:09:56 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2020, 07:28:31 PM
The advantage is where a team are in a better position to score than they would be if the free was given. A team can waste their advantage in the same way that they can waste their free but that's their own doing.
I don't think you should be given 2 shots for 1 foul.
that's prob the best way ive seen it put
I must try that at a game hardstation is at and see if the general consensus is the same among his clubmen
Haha in fairness, I dont blame the refs its the rule, but I just think soccer have it better where the ref either plays advantage or gives the free, in GAA its pretty much both play the advantage and unless its a score then its brought back for a free. too long of an advantage is my issue, should be a phase, ie if I have the ball 30m out get fouled but play the ball to a man off the shoulder and he solos and shoots surely thats enough advantage, but in current rules if that happens and the player puts it wide or short the team gets a free, they are rewarded for actually making a mess of their advantage.
Quote from: themac_23 on November 30, 2020, 10:28:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 30, 2020, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 30, 2020, 08:09:56 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2020, 07:28:31 PM
The advantage is where a team are in a better position to score than they would be if the free was given. A team can waste their advantage in the same way that they can waste their free but that's their own doing.
I don't think you should be given 2 shots for 1 foul.
that's prob the best way ive seen it put
I must try that at a game hardstation is at and see if the general consensus is the same among his clubmen
Haha in fairness, I dont blame the refs its the rule, but I just think soccer have it better where the ref either plays advantage or gives the free, in GAA its pretty much both play the advantage and unless its a score then its brought back for a free. too long of an advantage is my issue, should be a phase, ie if I have the ball 30m out get fouled but play the ball to a man off the shoulder and he solos and shoots surely thats enough advantage, but in current rules if that happens and the player puts it wide or short the team gets a free, they are rewarded for actually making a mess of their advantage.
If it's in a forward position the best advantage is a score, either free or from play. If he misses within the 5 seconds it's the rule
Quote from: themac_23 on November 30, 2020, 10:28:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 30, 2020, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 30, 2020, 08:09:56 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 29, 2020, 07:28:31 PM
The advantage is where a team are in a better position to score than they would be if the free was given. A team can waste their advantage in the same way that they can waste their free but that's their own doing.
I don't think you should be given 2 shots for 1 foul.
that's prob the best way ive seen it put
I must try that at a game hardstation is at and see if the general consensus is the same among his clubmen
Haha in fairness, I dont blame the refs its the rule, but I just think soccer have it better where the ref either plays advantage or gives the free, in GAA its pretty much both play the advantage and unless its a score then its brought back for a free. too long of an advantage is my issue, should be a phase, ie if I have the ball 30m out get fouled but play the ball to a man off the shoulder and he solos and shoots surely thats enough advantage, but in current rules if that happens and the player puts it wide or short the team gets a free, they are rewarded for actually making a mess of their advantage.
They are not rewarded for making a mess of the advantage, the defending team is punished for the foul! The attacking teams gets 2 chances to punish the defending team in this case. Therefore the benefit of fouling is lessened and therefore the defending team will be less likely to foul. And where they do foul, they are more likely to be punished on the scoreboard.
If we accept that the aim is to reduce fouling in the game then the advantage rule as it currently stands is a reasonably good way to achieve that aim.
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 03:32:11 PM
By the same token, if we really wanted to punish fouling we could give a free taker a 2nd go if he misses his 1st free kick.
It's the same thing.
Advantage is given all over the pitch, from cornerback to full forward. Teams much prefer to have possession and if not in the scoring zone, playing the ball out works better.
When the ref raises his hand he's playing advantage for a foul, player has two options, play a pass or shoot, after that, the ref has 5 seconds to play it, it's simple enough to workout.
If the ball breaks down and team lose possession after 5 seconds that's that. If the player loses possession or advantage is lost then it's brought back to original foul!
By the same token if a player shoots and misses before the 5 seconds is out then no advantage for the obvious foul.
I can't see the issue. Players would be calling for just the free every time, the problem is, it's not the players place to call advantage or not.
One thing I would change about the rule (even if it's not usually enforced) is that if the player who has received the advantage commits a foul, the play is brought back and the original free is given. Currently, the rules say that the free is given against the player who had the advantage if he commits a foul (unless this has been changed since it was originally introduced?)
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 04:57:37 PM
I don't know why you continue to think that we are confused as to how the rule works. We aren't. We aren't suggesting that refs are doing it wrong. We are simply suggesting that the rule is wrong and that the "fouled team" is getting too much of an advantage.
For me, the advantage shouldn't be that you have a free kick in reserve if required. The advantage you are getting is those extra yards gained, that better scoring opportunity, an option for a goal rather than a point etc.
No one is gaining an advantage if the chance they take is missed.
if advantage is played in corner back and the ball is played out is collected by the opposing team, do we say "you had an advantage and fucked it up, so play on" or as it's within the five seconds bring the ball back and play it out of corner back?
Is there a difference for defence advantage to forward advantage?
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 30, 2020, 05:02:39 PM
One thing I would change about the rule (even if it's not usually enforced) is that if the player who has received the advantage commits a foul, the play is brought back and the original free is given. Currently, the rules say that the free is given against the player who had the advantage if he commits a foul (unless this has been changed since it was originally introduced?)
It's absolute BS and to me it's a complete misinterpretation of the rule. A ref told me that he was specifically told at a training course that if a player overcarries during the 5 seconds, then you reverse the decision. But that makes absolutely no logical sense, as how could there have been an advantage? And most of the time the reason for the overcarrying is because the fouler is still all over the man in possession. So even if he doesn't foul him again, there's no clearly no advantage so the original free should be given.
I'd imagine the reason for it is to prevent the fouled player turning around and giving the fouler a dig. But the rules already cover this separately.
Quote from: Hound on November 30, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 30, 2020, 05:02:39 PM
One thing I would change about the rule (even if it's not usually enforced) is that if the player who has received the advantage commits a foul, the play is brought back and the original free is given. Currently, the rules say that the free is given against the player who had the advantage if he commits a foul (unless this has been changed since it was originally introduced?)
It's absolute BS and to me it's a complete misinterpretation of the rule. A ref told me that he was specifically told at a training course that if a player overcarries during the 5 seconds, then you reverse the decision. But that makes absolutely no logical sense, as how could there have been an advantage? And most of the time the reason for the overcarrying is because the fouler is still all over the man in possession. So even if he doesn't foul him again, there's no clearly no advantage so the original free should be given.
I'd imagine the reason for it is to prevent the fouled player turning around and giving the fouler a dig. But the rules already cover this separately.
That's the rule, but it's rarity in fairness. Should possibly be a hop ball in that case.
So why give 5 seconds?
So either you want advantage or you don't.
It has to have a timescale, it's consistent and easy to apply imo..
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 05:26:55 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about now.
Your post is about not giving a proper advantage to the player being fouled.
You feel the player is getting two bites of the cherry if he misses. If it's within the 5 seconds then he's well within his rights to bring it back and take the free. Be it an attacking free or defensive one. My view is he's not getting an advantage.
If we go down the road that you're suggesting players will automatically stop and take the free, thus making the rule useless. When the whole point of the rule was to keep the game flowing and reducing the stop starts.
So the question is do you want to keep the rule your way and watch players just stopping, as the odds then are stacked with the defending team. Play breaks down more often and we have a succession of frees.
Personally for me I prefer the rule as is, and that's coming from all angles.
Player should be allowed to say he doesn't want to play on and stop for the free.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 30, 2020, 05:46:10 PM
Player should be allowed to say he doesn't want to play on and stop for the free.
I agree but not in the rules. A bitta common sense though from the ref and he'll cop on to that
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 05:48:34 PM
I'm all for the advantage. For a player to go on in on goal rather than being hauled back for a 30m free etc. But if he does, the free should be forgotten about.
So if the managers say we've 5 seconds of advantage regardless ref! Where's our advantage? I get that constantly, so 5 seconds Is easily counted and applied.
Your views seem mainly concentrated on attacking play.
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 30, 2020, 05:57:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 05:48:34 PM
I'm all for the advantage. For a player to go on in on goal rather than being hauled back for a 30m free etc. But if he does, the free should be forgotten about.
So if the managers say we've 5 seconds of advantage regardless ref! Where's our advantage? I get that constantly, so 5 seconds Is easily counted and applied.
Your views seem mainly concentrated on attacking play.
We are talking about a change of rule here you know?
So at that point you would tell the manager that he is talking about the old rule and under the new rule a player gets the free or the advantage, not both. That can be applied right across the pitch.
I know, so are you getting rid of the 5 seconds or keeping that? You happy with the downside to your new rule? Slowing up play as everyone (I feel) will want to take the free, rather than lose possession.
I think just cause you feel it's giving people a second shot on goal, it isn't just for shooting goals
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 08:42:10 PM
Yeah 5 seconds would be gone. If you play on, you play on.
As for the stop start, I think the natural instinct of a player who recognises that he has a clear & obvious advantage is to play on. At least when he plays on the game will continue as normal instead of it being dragged back for a free (a stoppage) 3 plays later if his team makes a balls of it. On other occasions he'll decide to settle for the free. Foul committed, free given. No big deal.
I honestly don't see the downside that you do.
I can see benefits in yours, but I personally, at the coal face haven't had many issues with the advantage rule, it's great when a team gets advantage and works a score.
I can't remember anyone saying with any intent that advantage is over so his missed chance shouldn't be brought back.
Maybe watching it from the sidelines the view on it is different
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 08:55:43 PM
I just don't understand why we would give someone another attempt at a score when they have missed one from a more advantageous position.
To me, it's like getting another free kick if you miss the first one.
A free kick/strike is under no pressure, an attempt to score during advantage while someone's trying to block or hook you is under pressure. If he gets score away fine, better spectacle, if not and within the five seconds it's brought back.
Yours sounds more like a mark type (in that they have time to move without being touched) which I think is complete shite!
Sure we'll agree to disagree :D
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 08:55:43 PM
I just don't understand why we would give someone another attempt at a score when they have missed one from a more advantageous position.
To me, it's like getting another free kick if you miss the first one.
Yeah I think do away with the 5 second and make it that if the ball is played on then the advantage is over, for example it's hardly fair a player gets fouled and gets advantage slips a hand pass and player runs through on goal and keeper saves it or the player puts it wide, the fouled player took his advantage and the advantage was that his team got a shot at goal, i just think it's unfair on the defending team who stopped the goal to then get an east score against them. That's how it is in soccer if the advantage is played and the attacking team shoot and miss or keeper saves it then the advantage is gone.
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 09:26:31 PM
Whatever about someone blocking or hooking you, it has been deemed to be a better chance than the original free.
I don't know what you mean about not being allowed to be touched. I never mentioned that.
No, it like the mark rule you're talking about, but I can't see any advantage in your new rule, it's a bit like the unofficial slow whistle refs used before.
So scrap it.
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 10:10:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 30, 2020, 09:58:38 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 09:26:31 PM
Whatever about someone blocking or hooking you, it has been deemed to be a better chance than the original free.
I don't know what you mean about not being allowed to be touched. I never mentioned that.
No, it like the mark rule you're talking about, but I can't see any advantage in your new rule, it's a bit like the unofficial slow whistle refs used before.
So scrap it.
What do you mean you don't see any advantage in "my new rule"? The fouled player or the play is allowed to continue if a better opportunity than the free is available. That is what an advantage is!
That's the way we allowed it before the advantage rule. We basically allowed extra steps or slow blew whistle.
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 05:49:30 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 30, 2020, 05:46:10 PM
Player should be allowed to say he doesn't want to play on and stop for the free.
+1
How would that work? You'd have players stopping for their free every time they are touched, even if it's not a foul.
There's no whistle in advantage, how can the player decide to take his free
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on November 30, 2020, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 05:49:30 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 30, 2020, 05:46:10 PM
Player should be allowed to say he doesn't want to play on and stop for the free.
+1
How would that work? You'd have players stopping for their free every time they are touched, even if it's not a foul.
There's no whistle in advantage, how can the player decide to take his free
Sometimes the player fouled might not know they're in the advantage phase as the referee may be behind them with their arm raised.
I have seen lads wanting to avail of the free and just drop the ball at their feet and most referees are giving it.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 01, 2020, 01:13:03 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on November 30, 2020, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 30, 2020, 05:49:30 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 30, 2020, 05:46:10 PM
Player should be allowed to say he doesn't want to play on and stop for the free.
+1
How would that work? You'd have players stopping for their free every time they are touched, even if it's not a foul.
There's no whistle in advantage, how can the player decide to take his free
Sometimes the player fouled might not know they're in the advantage phase as the referee may be behind them with their arm raised.
I have seen lads wanting to avail of the free and just drop the ball at their feet and most referees are giving it.
I don't think you can rewrite the rule (I know it wasn't your suggestion) to assume all players can see the player at all times.
Think of the player one-on-one with his marker trying to beat him. Most times the ref is adjacent or behind him. He can't just drop the ball and assume the ref agrees with him that it was a foul
https://twitter.com/rtegaa/status/1365683173301092358?s=24
Hopefully we'll see consistency from Refs!?
Split season passed as well.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 27, 2021, 04:35:51 PM
Hopefully we'll see consistency from Refs!?
Split season passed as well.
Are you serious? It will be a disaster and the refs will get thrown under the bus
Motion 20 carried
For example that late challenge in the 2020 Connacht final will be no more unless those making the challenge wants to give away a penalty.
A July All-Ireland final will be strange but we are slowly adjusting to strange or less than normal.
A player is tripped at the corner flag area they'll be calling for penalties!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 04:57:22 PM
A player is tripped at the corner flag area they'll be calling for penalties!
Not unless its a clear goal scoring opportunity. And thats unlikely from the corner flag and in fairness all the incidents of this nature have occurred directly in front of goal.
Quote from: didlyi on February 27, 2021, 05:19:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 04:57:22 PM
A player is tripped at the corner flag area they'll be calling for penalties!
Not unless its a clear goal scoring opportunity. And thats unlikely from the corner flag and in fairness all the incidents of this nature have occurred directly in front of goal.
In hurling I've seen some great goals were lads have evaded 'tackles' along the line to score goals, it'll still be refs discretion though, his interpretation
This is an absolute recipe for disaster.
Imagine giving someone like Maurice Deegan or David Gough even more discretion to make the game all about them and their big decision.
Congress has always been way out of touch with the players and management but it's really gone another level in the past few years. They are destroying the game with advanced marks, sin bins, kickouts etc now.
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 27, 2021, 04:40:29 PM
Motion 20 carried
For example that late challenge in the 2020 Connacht final will be no more unless those making the challenge wants to give away a penalty.
A July All-Ireland final will be strange but we are slowly adjusting to strange or less than normal.
Brilliant, this rule should cut out a lot of cynicism. There will of course be mistakes but overall a really positive move.
Quote from: Angelo on February 27, 2021, 06:10:23 PM
This is an absolute recipe for disaster.
Imagine giving someone like Maurice Deegan or David Gough even more discretion to make the game all about them and their big decision.
Congress has always been way out of touch with the players and management but it's really gone another level in the past few years. They are destroying the game with advanced marks, sin bins, kickouts etc now.
I fear you may actually be right.
I think we can all agree that these rules are made up by absolute gobshites
Whoever was pissed off enough with joint captains lifting a cup to sit at home or in a committee and formulate a motion, send it to congress and lobby enough people to get it passed should be named and ridiculed for the rest of their lives for being feckin idiots.
In the the future they should have dummy motions like this at congress and anyone who votes for them should be banned from the GAA for life. Flush these people out.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2021, 09:42:32 AM
I think we can all agree that these rules are made up by absolute gobshites
The problem with new rules is that everyone immediately imagines the situation where their team is screwed over by a referee. The culture of blaming referees is sadly far too prevalent within the game. A rule brought in to correctly punish cynical play stopping a goal scoring opportunity by justly giving that team a goal scoring opportunity from a penalty is an absolutely fair rule. It does put more onus on referees and there will be mistakes but only teams who have defenders trained in the arts of cynicism are going to the losers overall from this rule.
Quote from: lenny on February 28, 2021, 11:51:00 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2021, 09:42:32 AM
I think we can all agree that these rules are made up by absolute gobshites
The problem with new rules is that everyone immediately imagines the situation where their team is screwed over by a referee. The culture of blaming referees is sadly far too prevalent within the game. A rule brought in to correctly punish cynical play stopping a goal scoring opportunity by justly giving that team a goal scoring opportunity from a penalty is an absolutely fair rule. It does put more onus on referees and there will be mistakes but only teams who have defenders trained in the arts of cynicism are going to the losers overall from this rule.
It will lead to more 'sweepers' and more defence based football, as the focus of the rule is on goal scoring opportunities e.g one on one situations heading straight for goals , as opposed to dragging some one in the corner.
On top of that, the fouling will just move beyond the 20m/ arc !
Jases lads and lassies don't let any positivity invade the place anyway ::)
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2021, 12:57:02 PM
Jases lads and lassies don't let any positivity invade the place anyway ::)
Being pragmatic!
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
In theory yes - but my major fear here is that it's completely up to the interpretation of the referee as to whether or not it's a clear goal scoring opportunity or not.
The list of black card offences according to the rule book is not ambiguous yet look at how that is interpreted so wildly differently by referees.
Lads are getting blacks for offences that should not be deemed as such according to the rule book so I fear this is a can of worms.
Quote from: galwayman on February 28, 2021, 03:06:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
In theory yes - but my major fear here is that it's completely up to the interpretation of the referee as to whether or not it's a clear goal scoring opportunity or not.
The list of black card offences according to the rule book is not ambiguous yet look at how that is interpreted so wildly differently by referees.
Lads are getting blacks for offences that should not be deemed as such according to the rule book so I fear this is a can of worms.
The other sports get it right the majority of the time. By definition a clear goal scoring opportunity should be easy to get right for the officals
Quote from: galwayman on February 28, 2021, 03:06:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
In theory yes - but my major fear here is that it's completely up to the interpretation of the referee as to whether or not it's a clear goal scoring opportunity or not.
The list of black card offences according to the rule book is not ambiguous yet look at how that is interpreted so wildly differently by referees.
Lads are getting blacks for offences that should not be deemed as such according to the rule book so I fear this is a can of worms.
All rules of the game are applied according to the interpretation of the referee. I'm constantly amazed that the first thought people have is how their team is going to be shafted by some ref misapplying this rule. This'll work both ways, we'll gain from it on occasions and lose out on occasions. It's there to penalise cynical play and it's a very positive rule change.
Quote from: galwayman on February 28, 2021, 03:06:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
In theory yes - but my major fear here is that it's completely up to the interpretation of the referee as to whether or not it's a clear goal scoring opportunity or not.
The list of black card offences according to the rule book is not ambiguous yet look at how that is interpreted so wildly differently by referees.
Lads are getting blacks for offences that should not be deemed as such according to the rule book so I fear this is a can of worms.
This is the problem. We have a major problem with refereeing incompetence in gaelic football. You see it up and down the country every week of the intercounty season and you now you are giving referees more discretion to administer their incompetence with match changing decisions. The likes of Gough and Deegan would be licking their lips at the chance to make a match changing decision.
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 03:22:15 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 28, 2021, 03:06:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
In theory yes - but my major fear here is that it's completely up to the interpretation of the referee as to whether or not it's a clear goal scoring opportunity or not.
The list of black card offences according to the rule book is not ambiguous yet look at how that is interpreted so wildly differently by referees.
Lads are getting blacks for offences that should not be deemed as such according to the rule book so I fear this is a can of worms.
The other sports get it right the majority of the time. By definition a clear goal scoring opportunity should be easy to get right for the officals
By the definition the black card should be easy to get right for match officials but it's an absolute clusterfuck.
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
Bad news for Johnny Cooper that rule
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 03:22:15 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 28, 2021, 03:06:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
In theory yes - but my major fear here is that it's completely up to the interpretation of the referee as to whether or not it's a clear goal scoring opportunity or not.
The list of black card offences according to the rule book is not ambiguous yet look at how that is interpreted so wildly differently by referees.
Lads are getting blacks for offences that should not be deemed as such according to the rule book so I fear this is a can of worms.
The other sports get it right the majority of the time. By definition a clear goal scoring opportunity should be easy to get right for the officals
Other sports as in Professional sports?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:16:58 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 03:22:15 PM
Quote from: galwayman on February 28, 2021, 03:06:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
If there's another defender who was going to tackle him then it's not a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Soccer have the red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Rugby has the penalty try and yellow card for fouling a player to stop him scoring a try
The new rule should cut down on cynical fouling so I'm in favour of it
In theory yes - but my major fear here is that it's completely up to the interpretation of the referee as to whether or not it's a clear goal scoring opportunity or not.
The list of black card offences according to the rule book is not ambiguous yet look at how that is interpreted so wildly differently by referees.
Lads are getting blacks for offences that should not be deemed as such according to the rule book so I fear this is a can of worms.
The other sports get it right the majority of the time. By definition a clear goal scoring opportunity should be easy to get right for the officals
Other sports as in Professional sports?
So because the referee isn't professional he doesn't understand what a clear and obvious goal scoring opportunity is?
The ref has two linesman and two umpires behind each goal. If between all them they can't tell if someone has a clear goal scoring opportunity when fouled then why have any rules/officials at all?
These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.
The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job, the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.
I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.
Referres are being asked to judge what is a clear goal scoring opportunity not solve world hunger.
If you don't believe officals are capable of judging this then what else are they incapable of dealing with? Should we get rid of red/yellow cards in case a ref makes a mistake? Probably can't give penalties then either in case they get that wrong too.
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 08:29:49 PM
Referres are being asked to judge what is a clear goal scoring opportunity not solve world hunger.
If you don't believe officals are capable of judging this then what else are they incapable of dealing with? Should we get rid of red/yellow cards in case a ref makes a mistake? Probably can't give penalties then either in case they get that wrong too.
Well when you put it like that, it's strange why there's so many discussions about referees
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 08:29:49 PM
Referres are being asked to judge what is a clear goal scoring opportunity not solve world hunger.
If you don't believe officals are capable of judging this then what else are they incapable of dealing with? Should we get rid of red/yellow cards in case a ref makes a mistake? Probably can't give penalties then either in case they get that wrong too.
Well when you put it like that, it's strange why there's so many discussions about referees
Refs/umpires/officals get discussed in every sport. Why do you think the GAA should be different? The players are amateurs but they get analysed like professional athletes.
Do you really think referees are incapable of judging what is or isn't a clear goal scoring opportunity?
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 09:11:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 08:29:49 PM
Referres are being asked to judge what is a clear goal scoring opportunity not solve world hunger.
If you don't believe officals are capable of judging this then what else are they incapable of dealing with? Should we get rid of red/yellow cards in case a ref makes a mistake? Probably can't give penalties then either in case they get that wrong too.
Well when you put it like that, it's strange why there's so many discussions about referees
Refs/umpires/officals get discussed in every sport. Why do you think the GAA should be different? The players are amateurs but they get analysed like professional athletes.
Do you really think referees are incapable of judging what is or isn't a clear goal scoring opportunity?
Again like I said already we question the calls on black cards yellow cards and red cards!
The games that I'm concerned with are 99% of our games, the grass roots, if you are only into intercounty that's fine, most calls will have the benefit of 8 officials!
In the sticks he won't, cynical play will happen further out the field and as someone has mentioned sweepers will play deeper, the game will become more defensive
Strange how referees at all amateur levels in football/rugby are willing to implement red cards/penalties for professional fouls but GAA refs won't do it for some reason.
Why do you think that is?
Quote from: dublin7 on February 28, 2021, 11:11:47 PM
Strange how referees at all amateur levels in football/rugby are willing to implement red cards/penalties for professional fouls but GAA refs won't do it for some reason.
Why do you think that is?
Personally I hate the paperwork and they usually get off with it once it goes to cccc.. :D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:46:05 PM
These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.
The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job, the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.
I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.
Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 01, 2021, 08:22:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:46:05 PM
These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.
The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job, the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.
I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.
Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees
And they still get it wrong even with VAR on board!
Well I'll look forward to the non discussion of the rules applied by the ref during the season, his interpretation of the rules will be fine, as its an easy call.
The referee's I've spoke to have said this will be a cluster f**k, no one of them have said brilliant this will make the game easier to manage. Like I said earlier, take this to a pitch with no lines, certainly a semi circle missing, and sidelines shouting for penalties..
County grounds during championship will have 8 officials helping out, 99% of the other matches played, won't.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 08:51:05 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 01, 2021, 08:22:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:46:05 PM
These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.
The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job, the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.
I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.
Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees
And they still get it wrong even with VAR on board!
Well I'll look forward to the non discussion of the rules applied by the ref during the season, his interpretation of the rules will be fine, as its an easy call.
The referee's I've spoke to have said this will be a cluster f**k, no one of them have said brilliant this will make the game easier to manage. Like I said earlier, take this to a pitch with no lines, certainly a semi circle missing, and sidelines shouting for penalties..
County grounds during championship will have 8 officials helping out, 99% of the other matches played, won't.
Who plays on pitches without lines. Referees at all levels in football/rugby down to bottom of the barrel sunday league level are trusted to get make these decisions. They're playing on bang average pitches as well and they also have to deal with players/sidelines shouting for penalties, red cards as well.
The reason the rules are being brought in is to try to take cynical fouling out of the game and improve the game, not as a test for referees
Quote from: dublin7 on March 01, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 08:51:05 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 01, 2021, 08:22:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:46:05 PM
These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.
The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job, the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.
I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.
Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees
And they still get it wrong even with VAR on board!
Well I'll look forward to the non discussion of the rules applied by the ref during the season, his interpretation of the rules will be fine, as its an easy call.
The referee's I've spoke to have said this will be a cluster f**k, no one of them have said brilliant this will make the game easier to manage. Like I said earlier, take this to a pitch with no lines, certainly a semi circle missing, and sidelines shouting for penalties..
County grounds during championship will have 8 officials helping out, 99% of the other matches played, won't.
Who plays on pitches without lines. Referees at all levels in football/rugby down to bottom of the barrel sunday league level are trusted to get make these decisions. They're playing on bang average pitches as well and they also have to deal with players/sidelines shouting for penalties, red cards as well.
The reason the rules are being brought in is to try to take cynical fouling out of the game and improve the game, not as a test for referees
I'm not saying the rules for cynical fouling is wrong, they have rules in place for it, for the past few seasons, its called a black card, sin bin.
This rule is saying that the penalty area is now extended to the sidelines of the 21 into the corner flag and in the D of the pitch, should the referee feel that that its a goal scoring opportunity, my problem is. and I'll have to administrate this in in every game, was that a goal scoring opportunity? I'm happy and in my knowledge I'll know, but I can see this turning into a farce. Just my opinion
And yes, I've refereed hundreds of games at all levels and there are pitches that I go to every year around the county and indeed other counties and markings on the pitch are abysmal.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 01, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 08:51:05 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 01, 2021, 08:22:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:46:05 PM
These are amateurs just like the players, players make more mistakes during a match than the referee.
The judgement calls are analysed as if they did this as their job, the introduction of the Mark rules forward and defence marks, black cards, sin bins, now we have penalty calls outside the box.
I'm not talking about Championship football at Croke, I'm talking about some country pitch during a dive 4 league game, this is the reality, not the great lined out pitches with refs mic'd up to linesmen and fourth officials and umpires.
Rugby and soccer referees don't do it for a living either. The Premiership is unique in having full time referees
And they still get it wrong even with VAR on board!
Well I'll look forward to the non discussion of the rules applied by the ref during the season, his interpretation of the rules will be fine, as its an easy call.
The referee's I've spoke to have said this will be a cluster f**k, no one of them have said brilliant this will make the game easier to manage. Like I said earlier, take this to a pitch with no lines, certainly a semi circle missing, and sidelines shouting for penalties..
County grounds during championship will have 8 officials helping out, 99% of the other matches played, won't.
Who plays on pitches without lines. Referees at all levels in football/rugby down to bottom of the barrel sunday league level are trusted to get make these decisions. They're playing on bang average pitches as well and they also have to deal with players/sidelines shouting for penalties, red cards as well.
The reason the rules are being brought in is to try to take cynical fouling out of the game and improve the game, not as a test for referees
I'm not saying the rules for cynical fouling is wrong, they have rules in place for it, for the past few seasons, its called a black card, sin bin.
This rule is saying that the penalty area is now extended to the sidelines of the 21 into the corner flag and in the D of the pitch, should the referee feel that that its a goal scoring opportunity, my problem is. and I'll have to administrate this in in every game, was that a goal scoring opportunity? I'm happy and in my knowledge I'll know, but I can see this turning into a farce. Just my opinion
And yes, I've refereed hundreds of games at all levels and there are pitches that I go to every year around the county and indeed other counties and markings on the pitch are abysmal.
Making the referees job impossible, refs are now asked to implement the same standard/ rules in club games that are being done in top inter county games, the suits need to realise that GAA is played outside the big stadiums. Also on the pitches without lines etc, nothing compares to Mitchell's old pitch up at poleglass, never mind lines ya were lucky to see posts!
Aye, listen I did a Ulster league game in County Down last year, just before we lockdown, there wasn't a line on the pitch. this was a div 1 game!
These are getting less in fairness, but it does happen and 99% of our games are played by clubs, not interecounty
There's a problem with the definition of cynical foul in general, it's totally arbitrary
Like, a trip is classed as cynical but a pull back isn't
Philly McMahon did a pull back on Cillian O'Connor after about 60 minutes of the 2017 All-Ireland which was as cynical as they come - the ref allowed the advantage, O'Connor did end up getting a point from play, but had he not been pulled back he probably would have stuck the ball in the net
Fouls high up the pitch are deeply cynical, they prevent the opposition from moving the ball quickly from one end of the pitch to the other
Manchester City are experts at this in association football, Dublin did it in 2013 and 2017 against Mayo, Tyrone were expert at it, Kerry too
This new rule about a penalty for a "cynical" foul is in because of that trip by Eoghan McLaughlin on Sean Kelly at the end of the Connacht final
But what exactly is a goalscoring opportunity, what is it in football, what is it in hurling?
In the Kelly/McLaughlin one, there was a covering defender, if you didn't need a goal you'd probably fist a point, at two points down three minutes into injury time you'd go for goal - if you can get a shot in, and Kelly might not have done
If Kevin McManamon had been hacked down 40 yards out against Kerry in 2013, would that not have been a goalscoring opportunity?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:52:43 AM
Aye, listen I did a Ulster league game in County Down last year, just before we lockdown, there wasn't a line on the pitch. this was a div 1 game!
Lazy "Nordies" need to up their pitch preparations rather than not introducing a rule because some clubs don't mark their pitches.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
2 on 1 - 2 attackers and 1 defender, he pulls the first forward down and stops the play, is this a penalty? Is it a clear goal scoring chance?
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 01, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
2 on 1 - 2 attackers and 1 defender, he pulls the first forward down and stops the play, is this a penalty? Is it a clear goal scoring chance?
That's very vague and impossible to answer. Is it at the corner flag, 45m line or edge of the penalty area?
If its at the corner flag then probably no, but if its on the edge of the penalty area then yes
Quote from: dublin7 on March 01, 2021, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 01, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
2 on 1 - 2 attackers and 1 defender, he pulls the first forward down and stops the play, is this a penalty? Is it a clear goal scoring chance?
That's very vague and impossible to answer. Is it at the corner flag, 45m line or edge of the penalty area?
If its at the corner flag then probably no, but if its on the edge of the penalty area then yes
I've seen many a goal opportunity when the attacker beats a man along the end line (mainly hurling) and is in on goal, should the defender bring him down at the end line by the corner flag or by the side line at the 21, will I give a penalty?
I'll probably not and call it as I see it, but there will be cries of "he was clean in on goal ya muppet"
As Sid said earlier, cynical foul can happen without it being a black card offense.
So your man is past the last defender just last the 21m out and defender manages to pull him back.
Under rules now
- It's a free and a tick to player who done it.
Imagine this at a club game. The supports will be calling for the defender to be lynched but under the rules the referee could give just give a free in.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 01:58:36 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 01, 2021, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 01, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
2 on 1 - 2 attackers and 1 defender, he pulls the first forward down and stops the play, is this a penalty? Is it a clear goal scoring chance?
That's very vague and impossible to answer. Is it at the corner flag, 45m line or edge of the penalty area?
If its at the corner flag then probably no, but if its on the edge of the penalty area then yes
I've seen many a goal opportunity when the attacker beats a man along the end line (mainly hurling) and is in on goal, should the defender bring him down at the end line by the corner flag or by the side line at the 21, will I give a penalty?
I'll probably not and call it as I see it, but there will be cries of "he was clean in on goal ya muppet"
Depends on a few factors. The speed of the player, is there any defenders who can get back to tackle him before he reaches the goal. Distance to the goal etc. You can't just simply say in theory that is/isn't a penalty until you see it happen live
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 01:58:36 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 01, 2021, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 01, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
2 on 1 - 2 attackers and 1 defender, he pulls the first forward down and stops the play, is this a penalty? Is it a clear goal scoring chance?
That's very vague and impossible to answer. Is it at the corner flag, 45m line or edge of the penalty area?
If its at the corner flag then probably no, but if its on the edge of the penalty area then yes
I've seen many a goal opportunity when the attacker beats a man along the end line (mainly hurling) and is in on goal, should the defender bring him down at the end line by the corner flag or by the side line at the 21, will I give a penalty?
I'll probably not and call it as I see it, but there will be cries of "he was clean in on goal ya muppet"
I'd expect referees to get training which will cover what types of situations will be a penalty. It's a positive rule change, like all changes there wil be mistakes and talking points but it should cut some cynicism out.
Quote from: lenny on March 01, 2021, 05:22:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 01:58:36 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 01, 2021, 01:29:00 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 01, 2021, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:45 PM
So if he's dragged down and there is a player in a position that could also tackle him and prevent a goal will it be a penalty or not?
2 on 1 - 2 attackers and 1 defender, he pulls the first forward down and stops the play, is this a penalty? Is it a clear goal scoring chance?
That's very vague and impossible to answer. Is it at the corner flag, 45m line or edge of the penalty area?
If its at the corner flag then probably no, but if its on the edge of the penalty area then yes
I've seen many a goal opportunity when the attacker beats a man along the end line (mainly hurling) and is in on goal, should the defender bring him down at the end line by the corner flag or by the side line at the 21, will I give a penalty?
I'll probably not and call it as I see it, but there will be cries of "he was clean in on goal ya muppet"
I'd expect referees to get training which will cover what types of situations will be a penalty. It's a positive rule change, like all changes there wil be mistakes and talking points but it should cut some cynicism out.
Would have to be a zoom training session with smaller groups, but not impossible. Listen I'm just gurning now as I'll be getting it in my ear all summer
A player has the ball in front of the posts, and fists it into the square where a teammate arrives to finish to the net.
If the eventual goalscorer WASN'T in the square when the ball was played, but another teammate WAS in the square (lets say, at the other post), does the goal stand?
Quote from: BennyCake on August 01, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
A player has the ball in front of the posts, and fists it into the square where a teammate arrives to finish to the net.
If the eventual goalscorer WASN'T in the square when the ball was played, but another teammate WAS in the square (lets say, at the other post), does the goal stand?
Quote4.9 For an attacking player to enter opponents' small rectangle:
(a) During Play (excluding Set Play), before the final play of the ball into the small rectangle.
(b) In Set Play, before the ball enters the small rectangle.
Exceptions:
(i) If an attacking player legally enters the small rectangle, and the ball is played from that area but is returned before the attacking player has time to leave the area, provided he does not play the ball or interfere with the defence, a foul is not committed.
(ii) When a point is scored from outside the small rectangle and the ball is sufficiently high to be out of reach of all players, the score shall be allowed even though an attacking player may have been otherwise illegally within the small rectangle before the ball - provided that the player in question does not interfere with the defence.
My reading of the rule is that the goal doesn't stand.
Like a lot of other rules in the rule-book the wording isn't the clearest.
Neither of the exceptions apply and the player [who didn't touch the ball] was in the small rectangle before the ball.
My understanding of exception (i) is that the ball has to leave the small rectangle and come back into it again.
As long as the player doesn't play the ball or interfere with the defence ["interfere" seems to be a very poor choice of words here - I'd say there's no way to be standing in the small rectangle and not be interfering to some extent.] the goal can stand. However in the example above there is no mention of the ball leaving the small rectangle.
I'd imagine in practice that a fair few goals have been given that should have been chalked because of this rule.
Ben McDonnell black card today. In my opinion it was clearly the most "cynical" of the three incidents that resulted in black cards. I don't remember exactly and can't find a clip but I don't think the player actually performed one of the actions listed which warrants a black card. I think he lifted a Kerry player off the ground and held him for a few seconds, deliberately holding up play (during a break in play).
https://dunshaughlinandroyalgaels.com/rules-specifications/
Quote
(4) The Black Card:
The Black Card: 'Cynical behaviour' includes these infractions:
(i) 'to deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away'
(ii) 'to deliberately trip an opponent'
(iii) 'to deliberately pull down an opponent'
(iv) 'to threaten or use abusive language or gestures to an opponent or teammate'
(v) 'to remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a match official'
The penalty for the above fouls is:
Free Kick from where the foul occurred.
Player Ordered Off by showing him a Black Card, Player will now spend 10 minutes off the field.
No substitute allowed, reducing his side's numbers for that period.
Any thoughts?
Thoughts are the black card has been and will continue to be a total farce of a rule. The same ref can somehow see the exact same incidents in the same game and give one a black and the other a yellow. If the sin bin is to continue (at least they changed to a sin bin which is much better than the old system) then it really needs sorted out. Remove the exact nature of what qualifies as a black card and just change it to something like, obvious cynical play attempting to stop a goal scoring chance. You can't be giving them for accidental trips or accidental collisions. The clothesline tackle now being a yellow is the safest way currently for a player to stop a man with the ball getting past him. It's nonsense that a rule designed to stop cynicism has encouraged dangerous play.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 28, 2021, 10:43:05 PM
Ben McDonnell black card today. In my opinion it was clearly the most "cynical" of the three incidents that resulted in black cards. I don't remember exactly and can't find a clip but I don't think the player actually performed one of the actions listed which warrants a black card. I think he lifted a Kerry player off the ground and held him for a few seconds, deliberately holding up play (during a break in play).
https://dunshaughlinandroyalgaels.com/rules-specifications/
Quote
(4) The Black Card:
The Black Card: 'Cynical behaviour' includes these infractions:
(i) 'to deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away'
(ii) 'to deliberately trip an opponent'
(iii) 'to deliberately pull down an opponent'
(iv) 'to threaten or use abusive language or gestures to an opponent or teammate'
(v) 'to remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a match official'
The penalty for the above fouls is:
Free Kick from where the foul occurred.
Player Ordered Off by showing him a Black Card, Player will now spend 10 minutes off the field.
No substitute allowed, reducing his side's numbers for that period.
Any thoughts?
It wasn't a break in play and it was a deliberate pull down
Yeah I rewatched it. It wasn't a break in play. I'm not too sure if I would call it a pull down.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Yeah I rewatched it. It wasn't a break in play. I'm not too sure if I would call it a pull down.
Was he trying to play the ball?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 30, 2021, 09:30:34 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Yeah I rewatched it. It wasn't a break in play. I'm not too sure if I would call it a pull down.
Was he trying to play the ball?
No.
Can a player be black carded for something other than the 5 offences listed above? Genuine question.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 30, 2021, 09:30:34 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Yeah I rewatched it. It wasn't a break in play. I'm not too sure if I would call it a pull down.
Was he trying to play the ball?
No.
Can a player be black carded for something other than the 5 offences listed above? Genuine question.
If he wasn't trying to play the ball then what was he doing?
Deliberately running down the clock. I think that's obvious.
Can you answer my question? I genuinely want to know if the rules as they are written would allow for such a thing.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 09:45:03 PM
Deliberately running down the clock. I think that's obvious.
Can you answer my question? I genuinely want to know if the rules as they are written would allow for such a thing.
I will if I can see a clip
Or what minute did it happen, I can check
https://youtu.be/Csriv2l3TJc
1.57.12 into video
ET 20.40 on match clock
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 09:54:26 PM
https://youtu.be/Csriv2l3TJc
1.57.12 into video
ET 20.40 on match clock
Black card (iii).. Not sure how this can be disputed tbh
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 09:54:26 PM
https://youtu.be/Csriv2l3TJc
1.57.12 into video
ET 20.40 on match clock
Are you serious? He cynically held up the player, anyone who thinks otherwise is blindsided by loyalty
Yes he held up the player I don't know if I would call it a pull down though. Read my original post I called it out as an obvious cynical foul but in my opinion it doesn't meet the criteria for a black card as the rules are written.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 30, 2021, 10:07:22 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Yeah I rewatched it. It wasn't a break in play. I'm not too sure if I would call it a pull down.
How was it not? He wrapped his arms around him and put him on the ground.
Can't argue with any of the black cards. However there was a clear hand trip in the first half which completely unpunished. That to me was the clearest black card.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 28, 2021, 10:43:05 PM
Ben McDonnell black card today. In my opinion it was clearly the most "cynical" of the three incidents that resulted in black cards. I don't remember exactly and can't find a clip but I don't think the player actually performed one of the actions listed which warrants a black card. I think he lifted a Kerry player off the ground and held him for a few seconds, deliberately holding up play (during a break in play).
https://dunshaughlinandroyalgaels.com/rules-specifications/
Quote
(4) The Black Card:
The Black Card: 'Cynical behaviour' includes these infractions:
(i) 'to deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away'
(ii) 'to deliberately trip an opponent'
(iii) 'to deliberately pull down an opponent'
(iv) 'to threaten or use abusive language or gestures to an opponent or teammate'
(v) 'to remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a match official'
The penalty for the above fouls is:
Free Kick from where the foul occurred.
Player Ordered Off by showing him a Black Card, Player will now spend 10 minutes off the field.
No substitute allowed, reducing his side's numbers for that period.
Any thoughts?
Cynical but technically only yellow card. I think ball should be moved 50 metres up the field. Current rules encourage forwards to foul higher up the pitch.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on August 30, 2021, 10:20:38 PM
Yes he held up the player I don't know if I would call it a pull down though. Read my original post I called it out as an obvious cynical foul but in my opinion it doesn't meet the criteria for a black card as the rules are written.
You're right in that context but there would be no complaints from anyone in any game. Considering the importance and timing it was correct
I think the issue may be that you haven't got the full definition of the rule there. It's rule 5.12 which makes it a black card
To deliberately collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of the movement of play.
There's a strong argument that's exactly what he was doing. I'm less convinced about the second black card Tyrone got. I thought the ball and the play were far enough gone that it wasn't a black card.
Seen this the other day, and spoke with others about it also....
Football, keeper kicks the ball out, defender/midfielder catches the ball, the ref as usual blows for the mark and is claimed by catcher, the player then passes the ball back to the keeper.. play on or foul?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2021, 09:55:56 AM
Seen this the other day, and spoke with others about it also....
Football, keeper kicks the ball out, defender/midfielder catches the ball, the ref as usual blows for the mark and is claimed by catcher, the player then passes the ball back to the keeper.. play on or foul?
Foul -
Rule 2.7(a) and (c) applies.
• Kick-out shall be taken from the ground at the centre of 20m line.
• Kick-out cannot be kicked backwards.
• All players to be outside 20m line, 13m from the ball and outside the semi-circle arc.
• Goalkeeper not taking the kick-out shall remain in the small rectangle.
• If the defender is kicking out the ball, the rule does not prevent the ball been played
back to the defender.
• The ball shall not travel less than 13m and outside the 20m before been played by
another member of the defending team.
• The player who directly receives the ball from a kick-out cannot pass the ball back to
the goalkeeper without another person playing it. Free to be taken from where the
Goalkeeper receives the ball.o "Pass" means all passes, including kick passes (from the hand or the ground)
and hand passes.
o To "Pass the ball directly back to goalkeeper" should be interpreted as cannot
be passed to the goalkeeper, regardless of direction.
o Free is conceded when the Goalkeeper plays the ball.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2021, 09:55:56 AM
Seen this the other day, and spoke with others about it also....
Football, keeper kicks the ball out, defender/midfielder catches the ball, the ref as usual blows for the mark and is claimed by catcher, the player then passes the ball back to the keeper.. play on or foul?
My view:
If mark is claimed it's a new play, so next kick is the first phase of a play (for want of a better phrase), not a continuation of the kickout phase, so no foul. Similarly, if keeper kicks the ball out to his 7, but the opposition 12 clearly fouled him before the ball reaches him and ref blows for a free. Then the free kick can be passed back to the keeper.
Whereas if the mark wasn't claimed and midfielder plays on, then it's the same phase of play, so if he then passes to the keeper it would be a foul.
Quote from: Hound on September 27, 2021, 10:55:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2021, 09:55:56 AM
Seen this the other day, and spoke with others about it also....
Football, keeper kicks the ball out, defender/midfielder catches the ball, the ref as usual blows for the mark and is claimed by catcher, the player then passes the ball back to the keeper.. play on or foul?
My view:
If mark is claimed it's a new play, so next kick is the first phase of a play (for want of a better phrase), not a continuation of the kickout phase, so no foul. Similarly, if keeper kicks the ball out to his 7, but the opposition 12 clearly fouled him before the ball reaches him and ref blows for a free. Then the free kick can be passed back to the keeper.
Whereas if the mark wasn't claimed and midfielder plays on, then it's the same phase of play, so if he then passes to the keeper it would be a foul.
Thats my view as well.
Quote from: general on September 27, 2021, 10:53:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2021, 09:55:56 AM
Seen this the other day, and spoke with others about it also....
Football, keeper kicks the ball out, defender/midfielder catches the ball, the ref as usual blows for the mark and is claimed by catcher, the player then passes the ball back to the keeper.. play on or foul?
Foul -
Rule 2.7(a) and (c) applies.
• Kick-out shall be taken from the ground at the centre of 20m line.
• Kick-out cannot be kicked backwards.
• All players to be outside 20m line, 13m from the ball and outside the semi-circle arc.
• Goalkeeper not taking the kick-out shall remain in the small rectangle.
• If the defender is kicking out the ball, the rule does not prevent the ball been played
back to the defender.
• The ball shall not travel less than 13m and outside the 20m before been played by
another member of the defending team.
• The player who directly receives the ball from a kick-out cannot pass the ball back to
the goalkeeper without another person playing it. Free to be taken from where the
Goalkeeper receives the ball.
o "Pass" means all passes, including kick passes (from the hand or the ground)
and hand passes.
o To "Pass the ball directly back to goalkeeper" should be interpreted as cannot
be passed to the goalkeeper, regardless of direction.
o Free is conceded when the Goalkeeper plays the ball.
And I get that, but when a referee blows his whistle is that the start of a new play? Has anyone seen it either way since the mark and pass back to keeper rule has been in play? why You'd do it in the first place is baffling, but it happened
Was reading an article in Gaelic Life this morning about a Derry match in the 80's. Some of the players got lost going to Mayo, and the referee threw the ball in, even though Derry only had 13 men on the pitch.
Is this allowed? I thought if a team didn't have the full 15 players, they forfeited the game?
Anyway, if a match is allowed to go ahead without the full 15 , when those players take to the field after the match starts, is that counted as a substitute?
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2021, 11:44:12 AM
Was reading an article in Gaelic Life this morning about a Derry match in the 80's. Some of the players got lost going to Mayo, and the referee threw the ball in, even though Derry only had 13 men on the pitch.
Is this allowed? I thought if a team didn't have the full 15 players, they forfeited the game?
Anyway, if a match is allowed to go ahead without the full 15 , when those players take to the field after the match starts, is that counted as a substitute?
13 to start but 15 by the start of the second half. In the event of failure to comply the game shall continue... I think ;)
Quote from: BennyCake on November 10, 2021, 11:44:12 AM
Was reading an article in Gaelic Life this morning about a Derry match in the 80's. Some of the players got lost going to Mayo, and the referee threw the ball in, even though Derry only had 13 men on the pitch.
Is this allowed? I thought if a team didn't have the full 15 players, they forfeited the game?
Anyway, if a match is allowed to go ahead without the full 15 , when those players take to the field after the match starts, is that counted as a substitute?
You must have 15 players at the start of the 2nd half in championship games.
League rules can vary by county but you can play 14 v 15 for example
Former leading referee Barry Kelly has lamented the lack of tolerance shown to match officials making errors.
After a weekend when referees Jerome Henry and Johnny Murphy came in for abuse on and off the field respectively, four-time All-Ireland SHC final referee Kelly believes the current crop are shown little or no patience unlike players.
Referring to the Connacht Club SFC semi-final in Roscommon on Saturday when Barry McHugh was denied a mark and referee Henry was later bumped by Mountbellew-Moylough players, Kelly said: "Jerome made a mistake, that can't be disputed. It was a mark. For whatever reason, Jerome didn't call it and that can happen.
"But there is such an intolerance for referees making mistakes. A Ballyhale player (Joe Cuddihy) was sent off before half-time against St Rynaghs. I'm quite sure TJ Reid, Colin Fennelly, or Adrian Mullen didn't give him a complete and utter bollocking in the dressing room. And I'm quite sure the Ballyhale supporters didn't turn on him either and correctly so.
"He made a mistake and he could have cost his club a place in the Leinster club final. John McGrath made a similar mistake in reacting like he did. He was probably being annoyed by the Ballygunner player but it's not him but the referee who receives the criticism.
"I'm going to games, still refereeing some and the threshold for a referee to make a mistake is one. You could be lucky enough and 10 minutes gone and you haven't heard a peep from anyone. Then maybe you might make a wrong call and suddenly it's as if you committed an act of gross cruelty, a complete overreaction."
Kelly believes feelings run higher in club fixtures. "For the majority of GAA people, the club arouses the most passion. People are ultimately club people and if you offer them the choice of winning a county final or the county winning the All-Ireland, it would be the club winning the county final.
"You take this time of year and any club still involved whether it's Mountbellew-Moylough, Pádraig Pearses, Ballyhale... those clubs have had successful years and by and large have won the vast majority, if not all of their matches. Therefore, the supporters are used to winning.
"But you're not entitled to win every game and we're not entitled to perfection. People will deny that and say they just want common sense but why can't they appreciate that the referee as well as their own players can make a mistake?"
Negative comments on social media about the performances of the referees have also disappointed Kelly.
Current and former hurlers weighed in to criticise Murphy's handling of the Munster Club SHC semi-final in Fraher Field. "People have to realise that just because you're passionate about a club or a county doesn't give you carte blanche to lose basic standards of decency.
"A lot of social media is just a forum for people to make comments without backing them up. I saw over the weekend comments like 'what are the GAA doing about the standard of refereeing?' There is a huge amount of work being done in the last 15 to 20 years and I've no doubt in my mind that the standard is better than it ever has been."
Ladies football:
Defender hand passes ball into her own net without anyone touching it.
Goal disallowed. Correct decision. Yes?
Quote from: theticklemister on April 03, 2022, 03:07:55 PM
Ladies football:
Defender hand passes ball into her own net without anyone touching it.
Goal disallowed. Correct decision. Yes?
Not sure about ladies but would be a goal anywhere else.
If a defender fist passes the ball into his own net surely it doesn't count?
It has been a few years since I played but I would swear I have played in a game where it's been disallowed!
QuoteA goal is scored when the ball is played over the goal-line between the posts and under the crossbar by either team.
Exceptions:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score;
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal-line, or
(ii) with his hand(s).
In men's if a player plays it over his own goal-line it's a goal - if it didn't count as a goal you would see defenders/goalies under pressure putting the ball into their own net all the time.
From the Ladies rule book
QuoteA score results when the ball is kicked, flicked, fisted or palmed in flight by any part of the body, except when thrown or carried over the line by the Attacking Side.
QuoteShould a defender play the ball in any manner through her own scoring space it shall count as a score.
Pretty much the exact same rule in both codes - if a defender hand-passes into their own goal it should count as a goal in both codes.
I was referee and disallowed it.
But, I will learn from this.
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 03, 2022, 07:02:13 PM
QuoteA goal is scored when the ball is played over the goal-line between the posts and under the crossbar by either team.
Exceptions:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score;
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal-line, or
(ii) with his hand(s).
In men's if a player plays it over his own goal-line it's a goal - if it didn't count as a goal you would see defenders/goalies under pressure putting the ball into their own net all the time.
From the Ladies rule book
QuoteA score results when the ball is kicked, flicked, fisted or palmed in flight by any part of the body, except when thrown or carried over the line by the Attacking Side.
QuoteShould a defender play the ball in any manner through her own scoring space it shall count as a score.
Pretty much the exact same rule in both codes - if a defender hand-passes into their own goal it should count as a goal in both codes.
Team qualified yesterday for the final and won the competition today. So luckily it didn't matter , but i learnt something new.
Crossed the flags and free out.
Was the last goal by Kerry in today's League final legal?
When the Kerry player kicked the ball Jason Foley was outside the square, it then deflected off a Mayo player and at the time of the deflection he was inside the square.
Quote from: blanketattack on April 03, 2022, 08:26:37 PM
Was the last goal by Kerry in today's League final legal?
When the Kerry player kicked the ball Jason Foley was outside the square, it then deflected off a Mayo player and at the time of the deflection he was inside the square.
I watched the footage back and was able to pause it showing Foley outside the square after the deflection, so clearly not a square ball.
However the rule book could be clearer in it's wording and I think it would have been a harsh interpretation to assess the deflection as the final play.
There is of course no definition of what is or isn't a final play anywhere in the rule book but I would think must people would assume the kick by the Kerry player was the final play.
Looks like the wording could be improved by the addition of the word deliberate so that the rule read
(a) During Play (excluding Set Play), before the final
deliberate play of the ball into the small rectangle.
This would mean that even if he was in the square before the ball was deflected but after the other Kerry player had kicked it the goal would stand - I presume most people would be ok with the rule being enforced this way ?
Current rule
Quote4.9 For an attacking player to enter opponents' small rectangle:
(a) During Play (excluding Set Play), before the final play of the ball into the small rectangle.
(b) In Set Play, before the ball enters the small rectangle.
Exceptions:
(i) If an attacking player legally enters the small rectangle, and the ball is played from that area but is returned before the attacking player has time to leave the area, provided he does not play the ball or interfere with the defence, a foul is not committed.
(ii) When a point is scored from outside the small rectangle and the ball is sufficiently high to be out of reach of all players, the score shall be allowed even though an attacking player may have been otherwise illegally within the small rectangle before the ball – provided that the player in question does not interfere with the
defence
It's handy that your were able to pause it to see whether he was inside or not, the referee hasn't that ability to do that..
Was approached at half time yesterday by one of the umpires from the home team, claiming a free kick should have been disallowed as the player (I think he said) kicked it twice? As in he motioned to kick it, then toe tapped it before settling himself to take it 'again' To be fair I was jotting something into my book but he may have been right..
Obviously he wasn't happy and told me to do my job right ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 09:40:27 AM
It's handy that your were able to pause it to see whether he was inside or not, the referee hasn't that ability to do that..
Was approached at half time yesterday by one of the umpires from the home team, claiming a free kick should have been disallowed as the player (I think he said) kicked it twice? As in he motioned to kick it, then toe tapped it before settling himself to take it 'again' To be fair I was jotting something into my book but he may have been right..
Obviously he wasn't happy and told me to do my job right ;D
I have a real problem with this one. I agree with that umpire but it's rarely enforced (if I am even correct). I've seen it enforced once though in a match between Monaghan and Tyrone in Croke park in the mid to late noughties.
Similarly in the Armagh v Kildare league game I was screaming at McQuillian for not knowing the rules when he allowed a Kildare player to set a ball down for a free kick before changing his mind and opting to take it from the hand. In fairness no one around me seemed to know that wasn't allowed either.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 09:40:27 AM
It's handy that your were able to pause it to see whether he was inside or not, the referee hasn't that ability to do that..
Was approached at half time yesterday by one of the umpires from the home team, claiming a free kick should have been disallowed as the player (I think he said) kicked it twice? As in he motioned to kick it, then toe tapped it before settling himself to take it 'again' To be fair I was jotting something into my book but he may have been right..
Obviously he wasn't happy and told me to do my job right ;D
I have a real problem with this one. I agree with that umpire but it's rarely enforced (if I am even correct). I've seen it enforced once though in a match between Monaghan and Tyrone in Croke park in the mid to late noughties.
Similarly in the Armagh v Kildare league game I was screaming at McQuillian for not knowing the rules when he allowed a Kildare player to set a ball down for a free kick before changing his mind and opting to take it from the hand. In fairness no one around me seemed to know that wasn't allowed either.
There are some rules that need to be written better though, and in fairness if I had have seen it I probably would have allowed it to continue..
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 09:40:27 AM
It's handy that your were able to pause it to see whether he was inside or not, the referee hasn't that ability to do that..
Was approached at half time yesterday by one of the umpires from the home team, claiming a free kick should have been disallowed as the player (I think he said) kicked it twice? As in he motioned to kick it, then toe tapped it before settling himself to take it 'again' To be fair I was jotting something into my book but he may have been right..
Obviously he wasn't happy and told me to do my job right ;D
I have a real problem with this one. I agree with that umpire but it's rarely enforced (if I am even correct). I've seen it enforced once though in a match between Monaghan and Tyrone in Croke park in the mid to late noughties.
Similarly in the Armagh v Kildare league game I was screaming at McQuillian for not knowing the rules when he allowed a Kildare player to set a ball down for a free kick before changing his mind and opting to take it from the hand. In fairness no one around me seemed to know that wasn't allowed either.
Didn't know that one myself re setting the ball down then picking it up. Probably not a whole pile of need for that rule in the first place.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 04, 2022, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 09:40:27 AM
It's handy that your were able to pause it to see whether he was inside or not, the referee hasn't that ability to do that..
Was approached at half time yesterday by one of the umpires from the home team, claiming a free kick should have been disallowed as the player (I think he said) kicked it twice? As in he motioned to kick it, then toe tapped it before settling himself to take it 'again' To be fair I was jotting something into my book but he may have been right..
Obviously he wasn't happy and told me to do my job right ;D
I have a real problem with this one. I agree with that umpire but it's rarely enforced (if I am even correct). I've seen it enforced once though in a match between Monaghan and Tyrone in Croke park in the mid to late noughties.
Similarly in the Armagh v Kildare league game I was screaming at McQuillian for not knowing the rules when he allowed a Kildare player to set a ball down for a free kick before changing his mind and opting to take it from the hand. In fairness no one around me seemed to know that wasn't allowed either.
Didn't know that one myself re setting the ball down then picking it up. Probably not a whole pile of need for that rule in the first place.
Yeah but it's there. Once you leave indicate how the kick is to be taken you can't change your Mind. In that instance the Kildare had just taken a kick from the ground. Had placed the ball and addressed it. There was then a gust of wind and he changed his mind.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 04, 2022, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 09:40:27 AM
It's handy that your were able to pause it to see whether he was inside or not, the referee hasn't that ability to do that..
Was approached at half time yesterday by one of the umpires from the home team, claiming a free kick should have been disallowed as the player (I think he said) kicked it twice? As in he motioned to kick it, then toe tapped it before settling himself to take it 'again' To be fair I was jotting something into my book but he may have been right..
Obviously he wasn't happy and told me to do my job right ;D
I have a real problem with this one. I agree with that umpire but it's rarely enforced (if I am even correct). I've seen it enforced once though in a match between Monaghan and Tyrone in Croke park in the mid to late noughties.
Similarly in the Armagh v Kildare league game I was screaming at McQuillian for not knowing the rules when he allowed a Kildare player to set a ball down for a free kick before changing his mind and opting to take it from the hand. In fairness no one around me seemed to know that wasn't allowed either.
Didn't know that one myself re setting the ball down then picking it up. Probably not a whole pile of need for that rule in the first place.
Think its a fair enough rule, prob to try stop for example a team leaving the ball for a keeper to come up take a free he sets the ball up wastes the guts of 90 secs he then lifts it and plays it back 30 yards, just to stop time wasting id say
Quote from: themac_23 on April 04, 2022, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 04, 2022, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 09:40:27 AM
It's handy that your were able to pause it to see whether he was inside or not, the referee hasn't that ability to do that..
Was approached at half time yesterday by one of the umpires from the home team, claiming a free kick should have been disallowed as the player (I think he said) kicked it twice? As in he motioned to kick it, then toe tapped it before settling himself to take it 'again' To be fair I was jotting something into my book but he may have been right..
Obviously he wasn't happy and told me to do my job right ;D
I have a real problem with this one. I agree with that umpire but it's rarely enforced (if I am even correct). I've seen it enforced once though in a match between Monaghan and Tyrone in Croke park in the mid to late noughties.
Similarly in the Armagh v Kildare league game I was screaming at McQuillian for not knowing the rules when he allowed a Kildare player to set a ball down for a free kick before changing his mind and opting to take it from the hand. In fairness no one around me seemed to know that wasn't allowed either.
Didn't know that one myself re setting the ball down then picking it up. Probably not a whole pile of need for that rule in the first place.
Think its a fair enough rule, prob to try stop for example a team leaving the ball for a keeper to come up take a free he sets the ball up wastes the guts of 90 secs he then lifts it and plays it back 30 yards, just to stop time wasting id say
Fair point, although nothing stopping him going backwards off the ground either lol
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 04, 2022, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 04, 2022, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 04, 2022, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 09:40:27 AM
It's handy that your were able to pause it to see whether he was inside or not, the referee hasn't that ability to do that..
Was approached at half time yesterday by one of the umpires from the home team, claiming a free kick should have been disallowed as the player (I think he said) kicked it twice? As in he motioned to kick it, then toe tapped it before settling himself to take it 'again' To be fair I was jotting something into my book but he may have been right..
Obviously he wasn't happy and told me to do my job right ;D
I have a real problem with this one. I agree with that umpire but it's rarely enforced (if I am even correct). I've seen it enforced once though in a match between Monaghan and Tyrone in Croke park in the mid to late noughties.
Similarly in the Armagh v Kildare league game I was screaming at McQuillian for not knowing the rules when he allowed a Kildare player to set a ball down for a free kick before changing his mind and opting to take it from the hand. In fairness no one around me seemed to know that wasn't allowed either.
Didn't know that one myself re setting the ball down then picking it up. Probably not a whole pile of need for that rule in the first place.
Think its a fair enough rule, prob to try stop for example a team leaving the ball for a keeper to come up take a free he sets the ball up wastes the guts of 90 secs he then lifts it and plays it back 30 yards, just to stop time wasting id say
Fair point, although nothing stopping him going backwards off the ground either lol
And they do. If a keeper is coming up to take a free, he shouldn't be allowed to play it short
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 04, 2022, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 04, 2022, 12:14:57 PMAnd they do. If a keeper is coming up to take a free, he shouldn't be allowed to play it short
Funnily enough in "rarely enforced rules" at least for football, the amount of times I've seen a free kick being taken where the ball hasn't traveled at least 13 metres before a team mate takes possession of the ball.
Really? You'd see this one called out plenty in my experience, any hint that it might have been too short will normally be jumped on by opposition.
The biggest rule breaker is frees from the hand.
The average steal must be 10m now!
Time to use the soccer spray thingy.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 04, 2022, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 04, 2022, 12:14:57 PMAnd they do. If a keeper is coming up to take a free, he shouldn't be allowed to play it short
Funnily enough in "rarely enforced rules" at least for football, the amount of times I've seen a free kick being taken where the ball hasn't traveled at least 13 metres before a team mate takes possession of the ball.
Is that the rule? I always thought the rule was that the player receiving the ball must have been 13 metres from the kicker when the kick was taken. So they could receive the ball within 13 metres but had they been standing next to the player they couldn't get it no matter how far it was kicked.
I thought you needed to be 13 metres away when kicked not when you receive it.
I'm still not sure what the rule is. You have to be 13m away from the kicker when free is taken but could you run 12m towards the kicker say and pick it up one meter away from them? The quoted rule doesn't really answer the issue.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 09:04:32 PM
I'm still not sure what the rule is. You have to be 13m away from the kicker when free is taken but could you run 12m towards the kicker say and pick it up one meter away from them? The quoted rule doesn't really answer the issue.
Personally if he's 13m away and manages to sprint 12m when the ball is played then play on!!
Yesterday in Ballybofey.
Rian O Neills 'goal'.
Anyone care to offer an opinion on what the free out was awarded for?
What could the referee have done differently?
If the same call happens this weekend in another high profile game what would the referee this week have learnt from Sunday?
Also point of clarification for anyone thinking I'm griping - I'm not...
My username points to my affiliated club and I am no supporter of Armagh football :-X
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on April 25, 2022, 01:59:40 PM
Yesterday in Ballybofey.
Rian O Neills 'goal'.
Anyone care to offer an opinion on what the free out was awarded for?
What could the referee have done differently?
If the same call happens this weekend in another high profile game what would the referee this week have learnt from Sunday?
Also point of clarification for anyone thinking I'm griping - I'm not...
My username points to my affiliated club and I am no supporter of Armagh football :-X
I'd thought that it was a foul on the gk inside the small rectangle
Quote from: delgany on April 25, 2022, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on April 25, 2022, 01:59:40 PM
Yesterday in Ballybofey.
Rian O Neills 'goal'.
Anyone care to offer an opinion on what the free out was awarded for?
What could the referee have done differently?
If the same call happens this weekend in another high profile game what would the referee this week have learnt from Sunday?
Also point of clarification for anyone thinking I'm griping - I'm not...
My username points to my affiliated club and I am no supporter of Armagh football :-X
I'd thought that it was a foul on the gk inside the small rectangle
I really think the Ref just wanted to clean up a messy situation.
happening all thr time now when a guy on the ground is penalized if he doesn't get out of there in a couple of seconds even though its clear no specific rule is being broken.
the ref is the boss and does what ever he likes .
its only sendings off that are appealed and they are proven to be wrong half the time
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 25, 2022, 02:33:03 PM
I noticed that several of Donegal's kickout's yesterday against Armagh violated Rule 2.7(a) of the football playing rules, which states that they must be taken from the centre point of the 20 metre line.
Quote2.7 (a) When the ball is played over the endline by the Team attacking that end, or after a score is made, play is restarted by a kick-out off the ground from the centre point of the 20m line and shall be kicked forward.
The only time it should be allowed is when that area is deemed unplayable, just move it to the side would be ok, not 2 meters away
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 11:06:59 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 09:04:32 PM
I'm still not sure what the rule is. You have to be 13m away from the kicker when free is taken but could you run 12m towards the kicker say and pick it up one meter away from them? The quoted rule doesn't really answer the issue.
Personally if he's 13m away and manages to sprint 12m when the ball is played then play on!!
So the "fake" soccer corner routine is legal? Say you have a 20 yard free in the last minute 2 points down with all opposition team on the goalline. Player A just drops the ball onto his toe and walks on. Player B coming like a train from 20 yards behind him could chip the ball up and take a blast at goal from a lot closer? Depending how switched on the defenders were and if they thought Player A was leaving the ball for B, they might not even have moved from the line? :D :D
Quote from: TabClear on April 25, 2022, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 11:06:59 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 09:04:32 PM
I'm still not sure what the rule is. You have to be 13m away from the kicker when free is taken but could you run 12m towards the kicker say and pick it up one meter away from them? The quoted rule doesn't really answer the issue.
Personally if he's 13m away and manages to sprint 12m when the ball is played then play on!!
So the "fake" soccer corner routine is legal? Say you have a 20 yard free in the last minute 2 points down with all opposition team on the goalline. Player A just drops the ball onto his toe and walks on. Player B coming like a train from 20 yards behind him could chip the ball up and take a blast at goal from a lot closer? Depending how switched on the defenders were and if they thought Player A was leaving the ball for B, they might not even have moved from the line? :D :D
Yeah but if he drops the ball he must make contact with it, then a player 13 meters behind him can lift it and play on. I remember being caught out like that in a hurling match 21 yard free, 10 on the line (before the 5 only rule) ball played square on the 21 and our positioning all wrong and shot blasted into the net!
I'm sure routines could be and should be played by players to gain advantages within the rules
'When he is within the small rectangle, the goalkeeper may not be charged but he may be challenged for possession of the ball, and his kick or pass may be blocked. Incidental contact with the goalkeeper while playing the ball is permitted.'
How many referees know this rule. The amount of frees given to goalkeepers just because they are getting tackled is unreal
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2022, 02:59:59 PM
Quote from: TabClear on April 25, 2022, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2022, 11:06:59 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 04, 2022, 09:04:32 PM
I'm still not sure what the rule is. You have to be 13m away from the kicker when free is taken but could you run 12m towards the kicker say and pick it up one meter away from them? The quoted rule doesn't really answer the issue.
Personally if he's 13m away and manages to sprint 12m when the ball is played then play on!!
So the "fake" soccer corner routine is legal? Say you have a 20 yard free in the last minute 2 points down with all opposition team on the goalline. Player A just drops the ball onto his toe and walks on. Player B coming like a train from 20 yards behind him could chip the ball up and take a blast at goal from a lot closer? Depending how switched on the defenders were and if they thought Player A was leaving the ball for B, they might not even have moved from the line? :D :D
Yeah but if he drops the ball he must make contact with it, then a player 13 meters behind him can lift it and play on. I remember being caught out like that in a hurling match 21 yard free, 10 on the line (before the 5 only rule) ball played square on the 21 and our positioning all wrong and shot blasted into the net!
I'm sure routines could be and should be played by players to gain advantages within the rules
You should write a wee booklet MR - give us all the inside insight. :)
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 01, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Ok, one for MR2 & others with reffin' experience...
Can a referee dismiss or replace a linesman or umpire (wherever neutral or otherwise) during the course of a game?
Yes , ref can order anyone within the confines of pitch - off
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 02, 2022, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: delgany on June 01, 2022, 01:08:19 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 01, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Ok, one for MR2 & others with reffin' experience...
Can a referee dismiss or replace a linesman or umpire (wherever neutral or otherwise) during the course of a game?
:o
Yes , ref can order anyone within the confines of pitch - off
Thought that might be the case, but can yourself or anyone else recall an incident when a linesman or umpire was dismissed by the referee?
At inter county - wouldnt happen!
At club level - occassionally
Quote from: delgany on June 02, 2022, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 02, 2022, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: delgany on June 01, 2022, 01:08:19 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 01, 2022, 12:04:39 AM
Ok, one for MR2 & others with reffin' experience...
Can a referee dismiss or replace a linesman or umpire (wherever neutral or otherwise) during the course of a game?
:o
Yes , ref can order anyone within the confines of pitch - off
Thought that might be the case, but can yourself or anyone else recall an incident when a linesman or umpire was dismissed by the referee?
At inter county - wouldnt happen!
At club level - occassionally
Have never seen it at inter county, as you say at club level I did it at the weekend, I'd my own umpires, one at each end, the clubs kept sending another and I had to ask them nicely to move outside the gate, second half starts they send another ::)
Look if you're refereeing and some home/away umpire is taking the piss then they are asked to go, same on the line. I've overruled my own umpires before, but only when I was 100%, it's not nice to do it lol
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 02, 2022, 02:04:15 PM
Interesting. I can't say that I've ever recalled seeing an umpire or linesman dismissed from a game in Tyrone.
Over 1 minute between ball going out for 45 and Morgan hitting it wide. How much should be added on, how much will be added on and is it time a time limit was imposed??
Lads, foot block. Lot of talk after Mayo Monaghan yesterday with 2 incidents. And we had one last week not given in Galway Roscommon. Some seem to think, any block with the foot is a foot block. I always thought you had to be close to the kicker, and risk an injury to their kicking foot for this to be the case. Otherwise can defenders or keepers not save with their feet? For my money, I thought all 3 were reffed correctly. The only one which was a true foot block was given as one. But is this correct under the rules?
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 05, 2022, 01:50:23 PM
Lads, foot block. Lot of talk after Mayo Monaghan yesterday with 2 incidents. And we had one last week not given in Galway Roscommon. Some seem to think, any block with the foot is a foot block. I always thought you had to be close to the kicker, and risk an injury to their kicking foot for this to be the case. Otherwise can defenders or keepers not save with their feet? For my money, I thought all 3 were reffed correctly. The only one which was a true foot block was given as one. But is this correct under the rules?
They slightly changed the wording of the foot block rule a few years ago. It used to be to block or attempt to block a kick taken from the hand. It now says To block or attempt to block with the boot when an opponent is kicking the ball from the hand(s).
So I think now you do have to be close enough to the kicker for it to be a foul.
Folks, I regret to inform you that we had another foot block incident in the Cavan Sligo game Sunday. What did we think of this supposed foot block from Killian Brady? Really not sure what to think. It wasn't what you might call a standard foot block. He threw himself forward to block the ball with his hands and body, and then the forward kicked the back of Bradys leg. Is this a foot block? It's not the one we usually see where they use their foot to block the ball, potentially causing injury to the kicker. It was Brady himself who ended up injured on the back of that, was hobbling and had to come off after it. Some commentators/pundits said it should have been a penalty, others that it wasn't. Thoughts?
From a Pat Mc Eneany interview last week;
"A goalkeeper taking a kick-out, can a goalkeeper soccer dribble the ball out and without taking the ball into his hands, kick the ball 40-yards up the field? Yes, he can.
So what he's saying is., a goalkeeper , instead of lumping it upfield off the tee, can knock the ball off the tee, dribble it as far as he wants, as long as he doesn't pick it up?
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2022, 11:40:21 AM
From a Pat Mc Eneany interview last week;
"A goalkeeper taking a kick-out, can a goalkeeper soccer dribble the ball out and without taking the ball into his hands, kick the ball 40-yards up the field? Yes, he can.
So what he's saying is., a goalkeeper , instead of lumping it upfield off the tee, can knock the ball off the tee, dribble it as far as he wants, as long as he doesn't pick it up?
Yes
Rule 2.7a
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player touches it but may not take the ball into his hands.
'Kerry would argue that they themselves were unfortunate to have a free scored against them in the 64th minute when Gavin White performed a perfectly legal shoulder on Cillian McDaid. The problem with that is McDaid collided into Jack Barry and as the Galway midfielder was sandwiched and had no opportunity to fall from the tackle it was a free.'
.. taken from Brian Gavins' 'Referee Review' in the examiner
Has anyone any idea what rule prevents a player from shouldering someone if they do not allow for the recipient to 'fall'
Or this just 'made up' nonsense?
Quote from: Dabh on July 28, 2022, 09:01:26 AM
'Kerry would argue that they themselves were unfortunate to have a free scored against them in the 64th minute when Gavin White performed a perfectly legal shoulder on Cillian McDaid. The problem with that is McDaid collided into Jack Barry and as the Galway midfielder was sandwiched and had no opportunity to fall from the tackle it was a free.'
.. taken from Brian Gavins' 'Referee Review' in the examiner
Has anyone any idea what rule prevents a player from shouldering someone if they do not allow for the recipient to 'fall'
Or this just 'made up' nonsense?
Plucked from the sky. Shoulder to shoulder obviously allowed for in the rule book, anything after isn't covered / mentioned
Quote from: Dabh on July 27, 2022, 11:51:56 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2022, 11:40:21 AM
From a Pat Mc Eneany interview last week;
"A goalkeeper taking a kick-out, can a goalkeeper soccer dribble the ball out and without taking the ball into his hands, kick the ball 40-yards up the field? Yes, he can.
So what he's saying is., a goalkeeper , instead of lumping it upfield off the tee, can knock the ball off the tee, dribble it as far as he wants, as long as he doesn't pick it up?
Yes
Rule 2.7a
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player touches it but may not take the ball into his hands.
Went for a short kick out once and got too much of the tee, ball barely went the distance to let full back get it - so I could of ran out and hoofed it away before the forward got in? Ref would have blew that 100%.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 28, 2022, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: Dabh on July 27, 2022, 11:51:56 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2022, 11:40:21 AM
From a Pat Mc Eneany interview last week;
"A goalkeeper taking a kick-out, can a goalkeeper soccer dribble the ball out and without taking the ball into his hands, kick the ball 40-yards up the field? Yes, he can.
So what he's saying is., a goalkeeper , instead of lumping it upfield off the tee, can knock the ball off the tee, dribble it as far as he wants, as long as he doesn't pick it up?
Yes
Rule 2.7a
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player touches it but may not take the ball into his hands.
Went for a short kick out once and got too much of the tee, ball barely went the distance to let full back get it - so I could of ran out and hoofed it away before the forward got in? Ref would have blew that 100%.
A ref that may not know that rule, like the rest of the players and supporters it seems on a lot of rules... you can actually bounce the ball as many times as you want, sort of ;) another crazy rule
Quote from: JoG2 on July 28, 2022, 09:57:17 AM
Quote from: Dabh on July 28, 2022, 09:01:26 AM
'Kerry would argue that they themselves were unfortunate to have a free scored against them in the 64th minute when Gavin White performed a perfectly legal shoulder on Cillian McDaid. The problem with that is McDaid collided into Jack Barry and as the Galway midfielder was sandwiched and had no opportunity to fall from the tackle it was a free.'
.. taken from Brian Gavins' 'Referee Review' in the examiner
Has anyone any idea what rule prevents a player from shouldering someone if they do not allow for the recipient to 'fall'
Or this just 'made up' nonsense?
Plucked from the sky. Shoulder to shoulder obviously allowed for in the rule book, anything after isn't covered / mentioned
It probably looked worse than it was, two lads shouldering you 'legally' in fairness I'd have stopped play as it did at the time look like their heads collided and given an indirect free for whoever was in possession..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:27:00 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 28, 2022, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: Dabh on July 27, 2022, 11:51:56 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2022, 11:40:21 AM
From a Pat Mc Eneany interview last week;
"A goalkeeper taking a kick-out, can a goalkeeper soccer dribble the ball out and without taking the ball into his hands, kick the ball 40-yards up the field? Yes, he can.
So what he's saying is., a goalkeeper , instead of lumping it upfield off the tee, can knock the ball off the tee, dribble it as far as he wants, as long as he doesn't pick it up?
Yes
Rule 2.7a
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player touches it but may not take the ball into his hands.
Went for a short kick out once and got too much of the tee, ball barely went the distance to let full back get it - so I could of ran out and hoofed it away before the forward got in? Ref would have blew that 100%.
A ref that may not know that rule, like the rest of the players and supporters it seems on a lot of rules... you can actually bounce the ball as many times as you want, sort of ;) another crazy rule
You can basketball dribble the ball isn't that right. At an U11 match last night the ref blew a lad for 2 bounces - he palmed the ball down in front of himself and collected it, took 4 steps and bounced it and he blew him up. Thought it was harsh.
I suppose the kick out one is similar to hurling where if you miss the puck out you can pull it on the ground.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 28, 2022, 09:57:17 AM
Quote from: Dabh on July 28, 2022, 09:01:26 AM
'Kerry would argue that they themselves were unfortunate to have a free scored against them in the 64th minute when Gavin White performed a perfectly legal shoulder on Cillian McDaid. The problem with that is McDaid collided into Jack Barry and as the Galway midfielder was sandwiched and had no opportunity to fall from the tackle it was a free.'
.. taken from Brian Gavins' 'Referee Review' in the examiner
Has anyone any idea what rule prevents a player from shouldering someone if they do not allow for the recipient to 'fall'
Or this just 'made up' nonsense?
Plucked from the sky. Shoulder to shoulder obviously allowed for in the rule book, anything after isn't covered / mentioned
It probably looked worse than it was, two lads shouldering you 'legally' in fairness I'd have stopped play as it did at the time look like their heads collided and given an indirect free for whoever was in possession..
I was surprised the Galway player wasn't forced off for a concussion check as I thought it looked like a head to head clash and he was down for a good while.
Watching it I thought the exact same re indirect free as opposed to free.
With all the stuff going on in rugby I think the GAA could be doing better with the concussion stuff. Progress has been made but there's still room for improvement I feel.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 28, 2022, 10:56:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:27:00 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 28, 2022, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: Dabh on July 27, 2022, 11:51:56 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2022, 11:40:21 AM
From a Pat Mc Eneany interview last week;
"A goalkeeper taking a kick-out, can a goalkeeper soccer dribble the ball out and without taking the ball into his hands, kick the ball 40-yards up the field? Yes, he can.
So what he's saying is., a goalkeeper , instead of lumping it upfield off the tee, can knock the ball off the tee, dribble it as far as he wants, as long as he doesn't pick it up?
Yes
Rule 2.7a
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player touches it but may not take the ball into his hands.
Went for a short kick out once and got too much of the tee, ball barely went the distance to let full back get it - so I could of ran out and hoofed it away before the forward got in? Ref would have blew that 100%.
A ref that may not know that rule, like the rest of the players and supporters it seems on a lot of rules... you can actually bounce the ball as many times as you want, sort of ;) another crazy rule
You can basketball dribble the ball isn't that right. At an U11 match last night the ref blew a lad for 2 bounces - he palmed the ball down in front of himself and collected it, took 4 steps and bounced it and he blew him up. Thought it was harsh.
I suppose the kick out one is similar to hurling where if you miss the puck out you can pull it on the ground.
My understanding of that one was you're allowed to bounce the ball to get control of it. Once you have control of the ball you're only allowed one bounce.
If you bounce the ball on a wet and it scoots away from you you're definitely allowed to bounce it back into your hand.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 28, 2022, 10:56:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:27:00 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 28, 2022, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: Dabh on July 27, 2022, 11:51:56 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 27, 2022, 11:40:21 AM
From a Pat Mc Eneany interview last week;
"A goalkeeper taking a kick-out, can a goalkeeper soccer dribble the ball out and without taking the ball into his hands, kick the ball 40-yards up the field? Yes, he can.
So what he's saying is., a goalkeeper , instead of lumping it upfield off the tee, can knock the ball off the tee, dribble it as far as he wants, as long as he doesn't pick it up?
Yes
Rule 2.7a
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player touches it but may not take the ball into his hands.
Went for a short kick out once and got too much of the tee, ball barely went the distance to let full back get it - so I could of ran out and hoofed it away before the forward got in? Ref would have blew that 100%.
A ref that may not know that rule, like the rest of the players and supporters it seems on a lot of rules... you can actually bounce the ball as many times as you want, sort of ;) another crazy rule
You can basketball dribble the ball isn't that right. At an U11 match last night the ref blew a lad for 2 bounces - he palmed the ball down in front of himself and collected it, took 4 steps and bounced it and he blew him up. Thought it was harsh.
I suppose the kick out one is similar to hurling where if you miss the puck out you can pull it on the ground.
Yeah thats unfair to call that one, again this is why we have different views during the game, collecting the ball and bouncing it, is one collecting it again is another, if he were to lose possession and palmed it then it doesnt count, must ref's will blow ..
The kick out one yes similar but I'm not sure after the initial striking of the missed puck out can he hit it again after striking on the ground... See its a minefield
Screen, if he's not in control of the ball, he can bounce/palm it as much as he wants till getting control
I genuinely don't know this so perhaps one of the refs could clarify: is the advantage rule just for attacking forwards? And if not is it at the refs discretion? Or should it always be given when it's clear there is an advantage.
Scenario: ball played in long with the game in the balance, full back of chasing team catches it, no defensive mark called by ref, fullback wouldn't have called it anyway as he'd acres of space to launch a counter attack, forward lazily fouls as full back breaks away. No advantage given when it was clear there was one to be given... instead ref blows to bring it back for a free out, full back was well on his way down the pitch, verbal remonstration and subsequent hopball given on 21m line (Other team win hop ball and get an easy point)
Can a free taker out the field use a kicking tee or is that just for the goalie's kick-outs?
Rule 5.40 says Ref can apply advantage following an aggressive foul if a scoring opportunity or some other advantage seems on.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2022, 11:30:04 AM
Rule 5.40 says Ref can apply advantage following an aggressive foul if a scoring opportunity or some other advantage seems on.
Hard to play an advantage when you're on your hole.
Maybe a black card or two would make potential perpetrators think twice.
I doubt if any Ref would consider using the advantage rule where a player is flattened by a foul.
Black card is for specified offences.
If we take the infamous Conor McManus/Sean Cavanagh incident, the same will happen now regardless of the black card? I always felt it would be beneficial to allow the fouled player to still be allowed to fist pass the ball, with no restriction on distance. Obviously there will be an outcry at the reduction of the sacred kickpass, but it could be restricted to frees inside attacking 21. Any further interference with the player results in a penalty. Conor McManus could conceivably have got up and laid the ball off to an incoming player and still had a goal chance. The same goes for a mark too, why not allow a player to lay off to an in rushing player even if they have called the mark? Is a kicked 15 yard free really that precious?
Also why do we not allow quick frees from the 13? What purpose does that serve other than to benefit someone who has committed a foul? I don't see why we should be giving the defence time to get back to the line, that is merely an incentive to foul. Drop that rule altogether imo.
Quote from: general_lee on July 29, 2022, 11:19:04 AM
I genuinely don't know this so perhaps one of the refs could clarify: is the advantage rule just for attacking forwards? And if not is it at the refs discretion? Or should it always be given when it's clear there is an advantage.
Scenario: ball played in long with the game in the balance, full back of chasing team catches it, no defensive mark called by ref, fullback wouldn't have called it anyway as he'd acres of space to launch a counter attack, forward lazily fouls as full back breaks away. No advantage given when it was clear there was one to be given... instead ref blows to bring it back for a free out, full back was well on his way down the pitch, verbal remonstration and subsequent hopball given on 21m line (Other team win hop ball and get an easy point)
Advantage rule is for every part of the pitch, its always been at the discretion of the ref, its only clear at times and he's only allowed 5 seconds (well his 5 seconds)
In your scenario the fullback claimed the defensive mark? or the ref just didn't blow his whistle for it? The ref will or should blow for every mark, whoever catches it doesnt have to put his hand up and players in that case can't tackle for at least 4 seconds or if claimed he's 15 seconds to play it. If a player is fouled in defence most ref's will blow, I suppose the easiest thing to do is hand up and see what develops , but if he's in the square and is fouled then this acres of space is a full length run up the pitch, the ref would be dammed if he lost possession and they turned over ball and scored.
The only problem with this is the discipline of the defender at the ref, stupid and can't be tolerated
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 02:34:18 PM
If we take the infamous Conor McManus/Sean Cavanagh incident, the same will happen now regardless of the black card? I always felt it would be beneficial to allow the fouled player to still be allowed to fist pass the ball, with no restriction on distance. Obviously there will be an outcry at the reduction of the sacred kickpass, but it could be restricted to frees inside attacking 21. Any further interference with the player results in a penalty. Conor McManus could conceivably have got up and laid the ball off to an incoming player and still had a goal chance. The same goes for a mark too, why not allow a player to lay off to an in rushing player even if they have called the mark? Is a kicked 15 yard free really that precious?
Also why do we not allow quick frees from the 13? What purpose does that serve other than to benefit someone who has committed a foul? I don't see why we should be giving the defence time to get back to the line, that is merely an incentive to foul. Drop that rule altogether imo.
When did this become a thing? ref blows whistle, he doesn't need to blow it again and if players are back 13 meters from kick then whats the problem with taking a 'quick' free if these are met?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 02:34:18 PM
If we take the infamous Conor McManus/Sean Cavanagh incident, the same will happen now regardless of the black card? I always felt it would be beneficial to allow the fouled player to still be allowed to fist pass the ball, with no restriction on distance. Obviously there will be an outcry at the reduction of the sacred kickpass, but it could be restricted to frees inside attacking 21. Any further interference with the player results in a penalty. Conor McManus could conceivably have got up and laid the ball off to an incoming player and still had a goal chance. The same goes for a mark too, why not allow a player to lay off to an in rushing player even if they have called the mark? Is a kicked 15 yard free really that precious?
Also why do we not allow quick frees from the 13? What purpose does that serve other than to benefit someone who has committed a foul? I don't see why we should be giving the defence time to get back to the line, that is merely an incentive to foul. Drop that rule altogether imo.
When did this become a thing? ref blows whistle, he doesn't need to blow it again and if players are back 13 meters from kick then whats the problem with taking a 'quick' free if these are met?
It's always been a thing;
2.6 With the Referee's consent, a free kick may be taken immediately.
Exceptions:
A penalty kick and a free kick awarded to a team from their opponents' 13m line.
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 02:34:18 PM
If we take the infamous Conor McManus/Sean Cavanagh incident, the same will happen now regardless of the black card? I always felt it would be beneficial to allow the fouled player to still be allowed to fist pass the ball, with no restriction on distance. Obviously there will be an outcry at the reduction of the sacred kickpass, but it could be restricted to frees inside attacking 21. Any further interference with the player results in a penalty. Conor McManus could conceivably have got up and laid the ball off to an incoming player and still had a goal chance. The same goes for a mark too, why not allow a player to lay off to an in rushing player even if they have called the mark? Is a kicked 15 yard free really that precious?
Also why do we not allow quick frees from the 13? What purpose does that serve other than to benefit someone who has committed a foul? I don't see why we should be giving the defence time to get back to the line, that is merely an incentive to foul. Drop that rule altogether imo.
When did this become a thing? ref blows whistle, he doesn't need to blow it again and if players are back 13 meters from kick then whats the problem with taking a 'quick' free if these are met?
It's always been a thing;
2.6 With the Referee's consent, a free kick may be taken immediately.
Exceptions:
A penalty kick and a free kick awarded to a team from their opponents' 13m line.
I never did, in fairness most teams defence will crowd round and restrict that from happening.. Though I can see what this means, all players must be 13 meters away from play, as I said in my post above if all players are 13 meters away there is no reason to stop it being played (in my view I'm right lol)
I'd given a free last night on the D one lad gave a bit of verbal's and I brought the ball forward the player had a free shot on goal as he was taking it quick, missed an open net!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 02:34:18 PM
If we take the infamous Conor McManus/Sean Cavanagh incident, the same will happen now regardless of the black card? I always felt it would be beneficial to allow the fouled player to still be allowed to fist pass the ball, with no restriction on distance. Obviously there will be an outcry at the reduction of the sacred kickpass, but it could be restricted to frees inside attacking 21. Any further interference with the player results in a penalty. Conor McManus could conceivably have got up and laid the ball off to an incoming player and still had a goal chance. The same goes for a mark too, why not allow a player to lay off to an in rushing player even if they have called the mark? Is a kicked 15 yard free really that precious?
Also why do we not allow quick frees from the 13? What purpose does that serve other than to benefit someone who has committed a foul? I don't see why we should be giving the defence time to get back to the line, that is merely an incentive to foul. Drop that rule altogether imo.
When did this become a thing? ref blows whistle, he doesn't need to blow it again and if players are back 13 meters from kick then whats the problem with taking a 'quick' free if these are met?
It's always been a thing;
2.6 With the Referee's consent, a free kick may be taken immediately.
Exceptions:
A penalty kick and a free kick awarded to a team from their opponents' 13m line.
I never did, in fairness most teams defence will crowd round and restrict that from happening.. Though I can see what this means, all players must be 13 meters away from play, as I said in my post above if all players are 13 meters away there is no reason to stop it being played (in my view I'm right lol)
I'd given a free last night on the D one lad gave a bit of verbal's and I brought the ball forward the player had a free shot on goal as he was taking it quick, missed an open net!!
The 13m away from a free is pretty much ignored everywhere else on the field. The obvious example, and one which occurs repeatedly in every game, is a player fouled who takes the free immediately. That is never pulled back to allow the fouler to retreat sufficient distance (thankfully!) In the instance of a 13M free, it isn't really a factor because the referee just waits for everyone to get back on the line (which essentially delivers the ruling of "no quick free.") Why give the defensive team control over that scenario in this way? It promotes fouling. It promotes players crowding around the freetaker (which incidentally should be penalised.) If a player can take a quick 13M free, and the outcome for obstructing that is a penalty, would it not help discourage the foul in the first place?
With your scenario above, a quick free was entirely fine unless you brought it up to the 13M line, in which case he must have gave you a right good mouthful because that's over 20M ;D
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 04:20:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 02:34:18 PM
If we take the infamous Conor McManus/Sean Cavanagh incident, the same will happen now regardless of the black card? I always felt it would be beneficial to allow the fouled player to still be allowed to fist pass the ball, with no restriction on distance. Obviously there will be an outcry at the reduction of the sacred kickpass, but it could be restricted to frees inside attacking 21. Any further interference with the player results in a penalty. Conor McManus could conceivably have got up and laid the ball off to an incoming player and still had a goal chance. The same goes for a mark too, why not allow a player to lay off to an in rushing player even if they have called the mark? Is a kicked 15 yard free really that precious?
Also why do we not allow quick frees from the 13? What purpose does that serve other than to benefit someone who has committed a foul? I don't see why we should be giving the defence time to get back to the line, that is merely an incentive to foul. Drop that rule altogether imo.
When did this become a thing? ref blows whistle, he doesn't need to blow it again and if players are back 13 meters from kick then whats the problem with taking a 'quick' free if these are met?
It's always been a thing;
2.6 With the Referee's consent, a free kick may be taken immediately.
Exceptions:
A penalty kick and a free kick awarded to a team from their opponents' 13m line.
I never did, in fairness most teams defence will crowd round and restrict that from happening.. Though I can see what this means, all players must be 13 meters away from play, as I said in my post above if all players are 13 meters away there is no reason to stop it being played (in my view I'm right lol)
I'd given a free last night on the D one lad gave a bit of verbal's and I brought the ball forward the player had a free shot on goal as he was taking it quick, missed an open net!!
The 13m away from a free is pretty much ignored everywhere else on the field. The obvious example, and one which occurs repeatedly in every game, is a player fouled who takes the free immediately. That is never pulled back to allow the fouler to retreat sufficient distance (thankfully!) In the instance of a 13M free, it isn't really a factor because the referee just waits for everyone to get back on the line (which essentially delivers the ruling of "no quick free.") Why give the defensive team control over that scenario in this way? It promotes fouling. It promotes players crowding around the freetaker (which incidentally should be penalised.) If a player can take a quick 13M free, and the outcome for obstructing that is a penalty, would it not help discourage the foul in the first place?
With your scenario above, a quick free was entirely fine unless you brought it up to the 13M line, in which case he must have gave you a right good mouthful because that's over 20M ;D
Remember the ref decides what 13 meters is and how long 5 seconds are lol
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40931267.html
https://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30553/12679959/referee-abuse-rates-high-in-gaa-as-link-found-to-mental-health-issues-in-new-study?fbclid=IwAR3hVG4fvBGJvh8brAVO3zBapVza1ZHpB65Ya3Qwo9tjY_lXRKQNqc7tfzM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on September 04, 2022, 06:31:35 PM
OK, this is for football. A player is in possession bearing down towards his opponents goal, as he does so the opposition goalkeeper throws his kicking tee towards the player in possession in an attempt to put him off. Goalkeeper is standing in the penalty area but outside the small "square" when he flings the kicking tee. Any foul/punishment?
It could be a a category 4 infraction ' inflcting injury in a reckless manner' - red card and two match ban !
I've seen sand being thrown into the eyes of an attacking player.. the lad chased the goalkeeper around the pitch blindly as he was trying to get sand out of his eyes!
Penalty and yellow card...
It's not a technical foul which would be just a 14 yard free
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 08:52:39 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 04:20:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2022, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: Lucifer on July 29, 2022, 02:34:18 PM
If we take the infamous Conor McManus/Sean Cavanagh incident, the same will happen now regardless of the black card? I always felt it would be beneficial to allow the fouled player to still be allowed to fist pass the ball, with no restriction on distance. Obviously there will be an outcry at the reduction of the sacred kickpass, but it could be restricted to frees inside attacking 21. Any further interference with the player results in a penalty. Conor McManus could conceivably have got up and laid the ball off to an incoming player and still had a goal chance. The same goes for a mark too, why not allow a player to lay off to an in rushing player even if they have called the mark? Is a kicked 15 yard free really that precious?
Also why do we not allow quick frees from the 13? What purpose does that serve other than to benefit someone who has committed a foul? I don't see why we should be giving the defence time to get back to the line, that is merely an incentive to foul. Drop that rule altogether imo.
When did this become a thing? ref blows whistle, he doesn't need to blow it again and if players are back 13 meters from kick then whats the problem with taking a 'quick' free if these are met?
It's always been a thing;
2.6 With the Referee's consent, a free kick may be taken immediately.
Exceptions:
A penalty kick and a free kick awarded to a team from their opponents' 13m line.
I never did, in fairness most teams defence will crowd round and restrict that from happening.. Though I can see what this means, all players must be 13 meters away from play, as I said in my post above if all players are 13 meters away there is no reason to stop it being played (in my view I'm right lol)
I'd given a free last night on the D one lad gave a bit of verbal's and I brought the ball forward the player had a free shot on goal as he was taking it quick, missed an open net!!
The 13m away from a free is pretty much ignored everywhere else on the field. The obvious example, and one which occurs repeatedly in every game, is a player fouled who takes the free immediately. That is never pulled back to allow the fouler to retreat sufficient distance (thankfully!) In the instance of a 13M free, it isn't really a factor because the referee just waits for everyone to get back on the line (which essentially delivers the ruling of "no quick free.") Why give the defensive team control over that scenario in this way? It promotes fouling. It promotes players crowding around the freetaker (which incidentally should be penalised.) If a player can take a quick 13M free, and the outcome for obstructing that is a penalty, would it not help discourage the foul in the first place?
With your scenario above, a quick free was entirely fine unless you brought it up to the 13M line, in which case he must have gave you a right good mouthful because that's over 20M ;D
Remember the ref decides what 13 meters is and how long 5 seconds are lol
The 5 sec rule needs to go as well in my opinion, should be like soccer and just if the play continues then that's it. Most frustrating thing in football player fouled the ref has the hand up the player slips the ball on to a team mate who then 2 secs later blazes it wide or defender makes a cracking tackle and it's pulled back for a foul. So frustrating. If the player fouled completes a pass to a team mate then the advantage should be over.
Personally I prefer the 'slow' whistle from back in the day, the player was 'given' an extra few steps to get away from the illegal tackle
Was at a game yesterday where a forward took a mark (he put his hand up). He very quickly played a foot pass to his teammate who scored a goal.
The ref disallowed the goal and gave a hop ball, so I presume he must have decided that the player "played through" the mark after signalling that he was going to take it.
Was he right to disallow the score?
Even if you take a mark you can play a kickpass. Surely the ref can't have said that the pass was taken too quickly?
The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the pass didn't go 13m. Does a pass after a mark have to go at least 13m?
Rule 2.12
This is where I have got to in relation to my question.
A free kick is awarded after a mark and a free kick can only be taken immediately with the ref's consent (2.6), so I guess this is why the goal was disallowed; because the ref didn't signal that the free could be taken quickly.
It was probably harsh to hop the ball because if you took a free kick too quickly out the field after being fouled you would normally get to take it again, not lose the free kick.
So it was probably correct that the goal was disallowed.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 12, 2022, 10:04:49 AM
This is where I have got to in relation to my question.
A free kick is awarded after a mark and a free kick can only be taken immediately with the ref's consent (2.6), so I guess this is why the goal was disallowed; because the ref didn't signal that the free could be taken quickly.
It was probably harsh to hop the ball because if you took a free kick too quickly out the field after being fouled you would normally get to take it again, not lose the free kick.
So it was probably correct that the goal was disallowed.
I think its a mess. half the time the forward inmdicates the mark, he then plays on. Raised hand and acknowledgement by ref stops play.. Can someone think of the defenders.
Quote from: rrhf on September 12, 2022, 10:21:29 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 12, 2022, 10:04:49 AM
This is where I have got to in relation to my question.
A free kick is awarded after a mark and a free kick can only be taken immediately with the ref's consent (2.6), so I guess this is why the goal was disallowed; because the ref didn't signal that the free could be taken quickly.
It was probably harsh to hop the ball because if you took a free kick too quickly out the field after being fouled you would normally get to take it again, not lose the free kick.
So it was probably correct that the goal was disallowed.
I think its a mess. half the time the forward inmdicates the mark, he then plays on. Raised hand and acknowledgement by ref stops play.. Can someone think of the defenders.
My take on it.. Ball is played in, attacker catches ball, I blow whistle (regardless) he can play on but must be allowed the time it takes 4 steps to be tackled. if he calls the mark he must take it within 15 seconds, I wouldn't be pulling players on taking the free too quickly, that would only be if its a 14 yard free, anywhere on the pitch, if I blow for a free, if he's ready to take it, providing no one is within 13 meters then play on...
Would need to have seen the actually play, the hop bal in my opinion would be if he didnt take it till after the 15 seconds had elapsed
EverY ref is different, we want to speed up the game and if we are always having to blow again for re starts and so on then it slows it down IMO
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 12, 2022, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: rrhf on September 12, 2022, 10:21:29 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 12, 2022, 10:04:49 AM
This is where I have got to in relation to my question.
A free kick is awarded after a mark and a free kick can only be taken immediately with the ref's consent (2.6), so I guess this is why the goal was disallowed; because the ref didn't signal that the free could be taken quickly.
It was probably harsh to hop the ball because if you took a free kick too quickly out the field after being fouled you would normally get to take it again, not lose the free kick.
So it was probably correct that the goal was disallowed.
I think its a mess. half the time the forward inmdicates the mark, he then plays on. Raised hand and acknowledgement by ref stops play.. Can someone think of the defenders.
My take on it.. Ball is played in, attacker catches ball, I blow whistle (regardless) he can play on but must be allowed the time it takes 4 steps to be tackled. if he calls the mark he must take it within 15 seconds, I wouldn't be pulling players on taking the free too quickly, that would only be if its a 14 yard free, anywhere on the pitch, if I blow for a free, if he's ready to take it, providing no one is within 13 meters then play on...
Would need to have seen the actually play, the hop bal in my opinion would be if he didnt take it till after the 15 seconds had elapsed
EverY ref is different, we want to speed up the game and if we are always having to blow again for re starts and so on then it slows it down IMO
Well there would definitely have been defenders within 13m, but if that didn't hinder the attacking team then it probably shouldn't be brought back on that technicality.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 12, 2022, 11:30:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 12, 2022, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: rrhf on September 12, 2022, 10:21:29 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 12, 2022, 10:04:49 AM
This is where I have got to in relation to my question.
A free kick is awarded after a mark and a free kick can only be taken immediately with the ref's consent (2.6), so I guess this is why the goal was disallowed; because the ref didn't signal that the free could be taken quickly.
It was probably harsh to hop the ball because if you took a free kick too quickly out the field after being fouled you would normally get to take it again, not lose the free kick.
So it was probably correct that the goal was disallowed.
I think its a mess. half the time the forward inmdicates the mark, he then plays on. Raised hand and acknowledgement by ref stops play.. Can someone think of the defenders.
My take on it.. Ball is played in, attacker catches ball, I blow whistle (regardless) he can play on but must be allowed the time it takes 4 steps to be tackled. if he calls the mark he must take it within 15 seconds, I wouldn't be pulling players on taking the free too quickly, that would only be if its a 14 yard free, anywhere on the pitch, if I blow for a free, if he's ready to take it, providing no one is within 13 meters then play on...
Would need to have seen the actually play, the hop bal in my opinion would be if he didnt take it till after the 15 seconds had elapsed
EverY ref is different, we want to speed up the game and if we are always having to blow again for re starts and so on then it slows it down IMO
Well there would definitely have been defenders within 13m, but if that didn't hinder the attacking team then it probably shouldn't be brought back on that technicality.
Yes, in fact I'd argue that the ball could have been brought forward if defenders were within 13 meters and not moving away as instructed, so ball played and advantage of getting score, what's wrong with that? Though if own players were inside the 13 meters and they collected the ball then its not actually a hop but a free out..
Again would need to see it.. but on the day these calls are given and it can be strange, we make mistakes ;)
Quote from: rrhf on September 12, 2022, 10:21:29 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on September 12, 2022, 10:04:49 AM
This is where I have got to in relation to my question.
A free kick is awarded after a mark and a free kick can only be taken immediately with the ref's consent (2.6), so I guess this is why the goal was disallowed; because the ref didn't signal that the free could be taken quickly.
It was probably harsh to hop the ball because if you took a free kick too quickly out the field after being fouled you would normally get to take it again, not lose the free kick.
So it was probably correct that the goal was disallowed.
I think its a mess. half the time the forward inmdicates the mark, he then plays on. Raised hand and acknowledgement by ref stops play.. Can someone think of the defenders.
The mark is an abomination at times. Half the time refs award the mark before a forward has even fully secured the ball and sometimes does a wee fumble. Still gets the mark.
You can hardly change a playing rule (2/2/i) by "directive"??
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 02, 2022, 12:52:09 PM
'nuther one!
I was at a football game earlier this week - in this case, the goalkeeper picked the ball off the ground inside his large square out but outside his small square. The referee awarded a penalty - my understanding was that such a foul is a 13 metre free to the opposition, however speaking to the ref during an interval he claimed that a new rule/directive was brought in earlier this year to make such a foul by a goalkeeper outside his small square but inside the large square a penalty. So who's right? Me or the ref?
Didn't get that email
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 02, 2022, 02:01:25 PM
Just as I thought then!
Here's one, is there a difference in time allocated for a forward mark and a defensive mark?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 02:25:15 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 02, 2022, 02:01:25 PM
Just as I thought then!
Here's one, is there a difference in time allocated for a forward mark and a defensive mark?
Not as far as I know?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 02, 2022, 02:30:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 02:25:15 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 02, 2022, 02:01:25 PM
Just as I thought then!
Here's one, is there a difference in time allocated for a forward mark and a defensive mark?
Not as far as I know?
Student in a match recently said to me that they don't get the same, I said they do but I questioned myself lol
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 02:37:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 02, 2022, 02:30:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 02:25:15 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 02, 2022, 02:01:25 PM
Just as I thought then!
Here's one, is there a difference in time allocated for a forward mark and a defensive mark?
Not as far as I know?
Student in a match recently said to me that they don't get the same, I said they do but I questioned myself lol
Don't see why they wouldn't be the same. Must be thinking of the mark from kickout. Is it 5 and 15 seconds that you get?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 02, 2022, 02:40:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 02:37:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 02, 2022, 02:30:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 02:25:15 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 02, 2022, 02:01:25 PM
Just as I thought then!
Here's one, is there a difference in time allocated for a forward mark and a defensive mark?
Not as far as I know?
Student in a match recently said to me that they don't get the same, I said they do but I questioned myself lol
Don't see why they wouldn't be the same. Must be thinking of the mark from kickout. Is it 5 and 15 seconds that you get?
This was a defensive mark, but again why should there be a difference?
Rule 2.12 says player has up to 15 seconds to play the ball. Throw in if he takes longer.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 05:02:13 PM
Rule 2.12 says player has up to 15 seconds to play the ball. Throw in if he takes longer.
That covers defensive forward and kick out marks?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 05:36:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 05:02:13 PM
Rule 2.12 says player has up to 15 seconds to play the ball. Throw in if he takes longer.
That covers defensive forward and kick out marks?
Seems so.
To summarise.. says you can mark from kick out or inside 45 from a kick in play.
Following procedures shall apply....15 seconds..
And me thinking you are a Ref ;D....or is it just the Hurley stuff you do?
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 05:36:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 05:02:13 PM
Rule 2.12 says player has up to 15 seconds to play the ball. Throw in if he takes longer.
That covers defensive forward and kick out marks?
Seems so.
To summarise.. says you can mark from kick out or inside 45 from a kick in play.
Following procedures shall apply....15 seconds..
And me thinking you are a Ref ;D....or is it just the Hurley stuff you do?
No I do both and have given the 15 seconds for all marks, it was a student that put the doubt in my head the other night!!
As well as drug testing maybe we should introduce Rules testing before lads are let play (or manage, ref, umpire, line or watch ) games :D
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 06:28:01 PM
As well as drug testing maybe we should introduce Rules testing before lads are let play (or manage, ref, umpire, line or watch ) games :D
Unless you have the rules online on your phone I doubt very much a player or manager would get 50% of a rules test
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 05:54:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 05:36:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 05:02:13 PM
Rule 2.12 says player has up to 15 seconds to play the ball. Throw in if he takes longer.
That covers defensive forward and kick out marks?
Seems so.
To summarise.. says you can mark from kick out or inside 45 from a kick in play.
Following procedures shall apply....15 seconds..
And me thinking you are a Ref ;D....or is it just the Hurley stuff you do?
No I do both and have given the 15 seconds for all marks, it was a student that put the doubt in my head the other night!!
Thought a mark from kickout was less time?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 02, 2022, 08:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 05:54:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 02, 2022, 05:36:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 05:02:13 PM
Rule 2.12 says player has up to 15 seconds to play the ball. Throw in if he takes longer.
That covers defensive forward and kick out marks?
Seems so.
To summarise.. says you can mark from kick out or inside 45 from a kick in play.
Following procedures shall apply....15 seconds..
And me thinking you are a Ref ;D....or is it just the Hurley stuff you do?
No I do both and have given the 15 seconds for all marks, it was a student that put the doubt in my head the other night!!
Thought a mark from kickout was less time?
Confusing isn't it
It used to be when first introduced and before there was a forward mark. The past few years all marks are 15 seconds.
Would it make sense for a player who gets black carded near the end of a game that has the possibility of going to extra time, to intentionally try to get a yellow card immediately in order to get a red card so his team will be back to 15 players for the start of extra time?
Start a schemozzle with some pushing and dragging would be the obvious way to get a yellow.
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on December 02, 2022, 09:54:32 PM
It used to be when first introduced and before there was a forward mark. The past few years all marks are 15 seconds.
Honestly never knew that.
Quote from: blanketattack on December 15, 2022, 12:37:57 PM
Would it make sense for a player who gets black carded near the end of a game that has the possibility of going to extra time, to intentionally try to get a yellow card immediately in order to get a red card so his team will be back to 15 players for the start of extra time?
Start a schemozzle with some pushing and dragging would be the obvious way to get a yellow.
Or just fall down and hold your head!! Most games in the year will be league, and depending on your county it can be a knockout game so the reality is it may only happen once, as in when the house is down take him out.
But yeah, if that player is not a 'main' player and you can afford him to be carded again then yeah some tuned in manager will say that
When the ref raises his arm to indicate a foul has been committed but playing advantage, can the player on the ball (on seeing no prospects) choose not play the advantage and take the free kick?
It's the ref that decides not the players (officially ; )
The amount of lads that are not using gum shields these days is very high.
Quote from: marty34 on February 26, 2023, 10:17:30 PM
The amount of lads that are not using gum shields these days is very high.
Seen maybe about two players using them today at a challenge game today
Quote from: Main Street on February 26, 2023, 10:11:26 PM
When the ref raises his arm to indicate a foul has been committed but playing advantage, can the player on the ball (on seeing no prospects) choose not play the advantage and take the free kick?
Generally if the player comes to a stop and just stops playing, it forces the ref to give the free. Have seen it a few times in games.
I'm constantly amazed at the percentage of players that don't immediately try and take a shot at the posts (or even the goals) within the five seconds when they have advantage safe in the knowledge that they have the free-kick if it goes wide.
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 01, 2023, 04:56:32 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 26, 2023, 10:11:26 PM
When the ref raises his arm to indicate a foul has been committed but playing advantage, can the player on the ball (on seeing no prospects) choose not play the advantage and take the free kick?
Generally if the player comes to a stop and just stops playing, it forces the ref to give the free. Have seen it a few times in games.
I'm constantly amazed at the percentage of players that don't immediately try and take a shot at the posts (or even the goals) within the five seconds when they have advantage safe in the knowledge that they have the free-kick if it goes wide.
that would be a free for the other team then for overcarryng
Can an outfield player go into goals for a penalty?
Is it considered a substitution?
Does he have to change shirts with the goalkeeper?
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2023, 06:57:06 PM
Can an outfield player go into goals for a penalty?
Is it considered a substitution?
Does he have to change shirts with the goalkeeper?
Finally an easy one...
Yes
No
No...but if he touches the ball on the ground inside the small square it is another penalty.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on March 01, 2023, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2023, 06:57:06 PM
Can an outfield player go into goals for a penalty?
Is it considered a substitution?
Does he have to change shirts with the goalkeeper?
Finally an easy one...
Yes
No
No...but if he touches the ball on the ground inside the small square it is another penalty.
Ah, that would have been my next question
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on March 01, 2023, 07:16:18 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2023, 06:57:06 PM
Can an outfield player go into goals for a penalty?
Is it considered a substitution?
Does he have to change shirts with the goalkeeper?
Finally an easy one...
Yes
No
No...but if he touches the ball on the ground inside the small square it is another penalty.
2.4 A penalty kick shall be taken from the ground
at a point 11m from the centre of the goal-line,
and only the defending goalkeeper may stand
on the goal-line. All other players, with the
exception of the player taking the kick, shall be
outside the 20m line and the arc, be at least
13m from the ball,
Quote from: Nanderson on March 01, 2023, 05:22:48 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 01, 2023, 04:56:32 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 26, 2023, 10:11:26 PM
When the ref raises his arm to indicate a foul has been committed but playing advantage, can the player on the ball (on seeing no prospects) choose not play the advantage and take the free kick?
Generally if the player comes to a stop and just stops playing, it forces the ref to give the free. Have seen it a few times in games.
I'm constantly amazed at the percentage of players that don't immediately try and take a shot at the posts (or even the goals) within the five seconds when they have advantage safe in the knowledge that they have the free-kick if it goes wide.
that would be a free for the other team then for overcarryng
There was a situation twice in the game Monaghan v Rossies when the Monaghan player got advantage about 30m out but with no good opportunity to make any advance or another player to pass to , the ball was passed back the two times, shot taken and missed. In both instances (had it been awarded) the free kick was scrorable.
Why is not so that if after 5 secs there is no advantage gained, the play is called back?
Where will Dublin's neutral game in the AI Round Robin be played?
It will be most likely v Ulster losing Finalists.
So, the penalty shoot out yesterday
Both teams nominated 5 kickers. The Derry fella , (name escapes me) did his hamstring taking his penalty.
If the penalties were level after 5 each , the same 5 players also have to take the the next five. So if it came down to it, and the injured Derry player was unable to take his penalty second time around... what happens then?
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 15, 2023, 10:19:54 PM
So, the penalty shoot out yesterday
Both teams nominated 5 kickers. The Derry fella , (name escapes me) did his hamstring taking his penalty.
If the penalties were level after 5 each , the same 5 players also have to take the the next five. So if it came down to it, and the injured Derry player was unable to take his penalty second time around... what happens then?
Not sure there is a rule specifically for that but let's take the 'mark' rule, if the person is injured in the process of claiming a 'mark' and is unable to take it, another player can be nominated. I'd assume that be the case, but one to certainly consider going forward
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Incredibly bad ideas there. Just looking for teams to lump the ball out from a kickout and hope for the best. How is a scrum around a breaking ball from every kickout is going to improve the spectacle? Maybe they should consider making the opposing team have a set number of players inside the 45m line instead of conceding short kickouts unchallenged, then the team with the ball needs to show some initiative with their shorter kickouts.
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Are these changes at least worth a trial?
Yes. Absolutely. Crack on.
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 15, 2023, 10:19:54 PM
So, the penalty shoot out yesterday
Both teams nominated 5 kickers. The Derry fella , (name escapes me) did his hamstring taking his penalty.
If the penalties were level after 5 each , the same 5 players also have to take the the next five. So if it came down to it, and the injured Derry player was unable to take his penalty second time around... what happens then?
Is it Shane McGuigan you are talking about?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:10:54 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 15, 2023, 10:19:54 PM
So, the penalty shoot out yesterday
Both teams nominated 5 kickers. The Derry fella , (name escapes me) did his hamstring taking his penalty.
If the penalties were level after 5 each , the same 5 players also have to take the the next five. So if it came down to it, and the injured Derry player was unable to take his penalty second time around... what happens then?
Not sure there is a rule specifically for that but let's take the 'mark' rule, if the person is injured in the process of claiming a 'mark' and is unable to take it, another player can be nominated. I'd assume that be the case, but one to certainly consider going forward
You actually name 7 players for penalties. 5 for taking them. 1 goal keeper and 1 sub goal keeper who may replace the keeper but not swap with them. The fact that the rule book makes particular reference to that makes me think you can't replace an injured penalty taker
Quote from: David McKeown on May 22, 2023, 06:06:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:10:54 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 15, 2023, 10:19:54 PM
So, the penalty shoot out yesterday
Both teams nominated 5 kickers. The Derry fella , (name escapes me) did his hamstring taking his penalty.
If the penalties were level after 5 each , the same 5 players also have to take the the next five. So if it came down to it, and the injured Derry player was unable to take his penalty second time around... what happens then?
Not sure there is a rule specifically for that but let's take the 'mark' rule, if the person is injured in the process of claiming a 'mark' and is unable to take it, another player can be nominated. I'd assume that be the case, but one to certainly consider going forward
You actually name 7 players for penalties. 5 for taking them. 1 goal keeper and 1 sub goal keeper who may replace the keeper but not swap with them. The fact that the rule book makes particular reference to that makes me think you can't replace an injured penalty taker
Probably needs looking at!
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Terrible ideas, the rule of not being able to go back to the keeper worked well. When teams are chasing games they push up on kicks and the keeper has to go long, so there is no need for a rule to make a team lump a ball if the opposition is happy enough to concede the kick out
Quote from: themac_23 on May 24, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Terrible ideas, the rule of not being able to go back to the keeper worked well. When teams are chasing games they push up on kicks and the keeper has to go long, so there is no need for a rule to make a team lump a ball if the opposition is happy enough to concede the kick out
Why do they have to keep changing the rules?
Seems just to be a rule change for the sake of it.
If they'd sort out the tackle, that'd be a decent start.
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 08:36:25 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on May 24, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Terrible ideas, the rule of not being able to go back to the keeper worked well. When teams are chasing games they push up on kicks and the keeper has to go long, so there is no need for a rule to make a team lump a ball if the opposition is happy enough to concede the kick out
Why do they have to keep changing the rules?
Seems just to be a rule change for the sake of it.
If they'd sort out the tackle, that'd be a decent start.
What are we looking for in the 'tackle'
Shoulder to shoulder believe it or not is the only physical tackle allowed lol.
If you are not 'tackling' the ball or trying to disposes the ball legally then its a foul!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 08:42:52 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 08:36:25 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on May 24, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Terrible ideas, the rule of not being able to go back to the keeper worked well. When teams are chasing games they push up on kicks and the keeper has to go long, so there is no need for a rule to make a team lump a ball if the opposition is happy enough to concede the kick out
Why do they have to keep changing the rules?
Seems just to be a rule change for the sake of it.
If they'd sort out the tackle, that'd be a decent start.
What are we looking for in the 'tackle'
Shoulder to shoulder believe it or not is the only physical tackle allowed lol.
If you are not 'tackling' the ball or trying to disposes the ball legally then its a foul!
Yes, but if 3 /4 men are slapping at a player in possession, most hits nowhere near the ball, 90% of the time a ref will blow for overcarrying when it really should be a free to the player in possession
Quote from: JoG2 on May 24, 2023, 09:42:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 08:42:52 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 08:36:25 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on May 24, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Terrible ideas, the rule of not being able to go back to the keeper worked well. When teams are chasing games they push up on kicks and the keeper has to go long, so there is no need for a rule to make a team lump a ball if the opposition is happy enough to concede the kick out
Why do they have to keep changing the rules?
Seems just to be a rule change for the sake of it.
If they'd sort out the tackle, that'd be a decent start.
What are we looking for in the 'tackle'
Shoulder to shoulder believe it or not is the only physical tackle allowed lol.
If you are not 'tackling' the ball or trying to disposes the ball legally then its a foul!
Yes, but if 3 /4 men are slapping at a player in possession, most hits nowhere near the ball, 90% of the time a ref will blow for overcarrying when it really should be a free to the player in possession
100% correct.
They'd be slapping and punching with a closed fist, like playing the big drum on the 12 th and the player will get be pulled up for overcarrying.
Happens all the time.
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 10:17:53 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 24, 2023, 09:42:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 08:42:52 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 08:36:25 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on May 24, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Terrible ideas, the rule of not being able to go back to the keeper worked well. When teams are chasing games they push up on kicks and the keeper has to go long, so there is no need for a rule to make a team lump a ball if the opposition is happy enough to concede the kick out
Why do they have to keep changing the rules?
Seems just to be a rule change for the sake of it.
If they'd sort out the tackle, that'd be a decent start.
What are we looking for in the 'tackle'
Shoulder to shoulder believe it or not is the only physical tackle allowed lol.
If you are not 'tackling' the ball or trying to disposes the ball legally then its a foul!
Yes, but if 3 /4 men are slapping at a player in possession, most hits nowhere near the ball, 90% of the time a ref will blow for overcarrying when it really should be a free to the player in possession
100% correct.
They'd be slapping and punching with a closed fist, like playing the big drum on the 12 th and the player will get be pulled up for overcarrying.
Happens all the time.
The Lambeg tackle!
Quote from: JoG2 on May 24, 2023, 10:22:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 10:17:53 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 24, 2023, 09:42:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 08:42:52 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 08:36:25 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on May 24, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Terrible ideas, the rule of not being able to go back to the keeper worked well. When teams are chasing games they push up on kicks and the keeper has to go long, so there is no need for a rule to make a team lump a ball if the opposition is happy enough to concede the kick out
Why do they have to keep changing the rules?
Seems just to be a rule change for the sake of it.
If they'd sort out the tackle, that'd be a decent start.
What are we looking for in the 'tackle'
Shoulder to shoulder believe it or not is the only physical tackle allowed lol.
If you are not 'tackling' the ball or trying to disposes the ball legally then its a foul!
Yes, but if 3 /4 men are slapping at a player in possession, most hits nowhere near the ball, 90% of the time a ref will blow for overcarrying when it really should be a free to the player in possession
100% correct.
They'd be slapping and punching with a closed fist, like playing the big drum on the 12 th and the player will get be pulled up for overcarrying.
Happens all the time.
The Lambeg tackle!
The Michael murphy tackle.
So I'll ask again, what are we looking for in the tackle? Attempts to play the ball but any connection to wrist arm torso should be pulled, leaving the game outside of shoulder on shoulder non contact
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 12:30:25 PM
So I'll ask again, what are we looking for in the tackle? Attempts to play the ball but any connection to wrist arm torso should be pulled, leaving the game outside of shoulder on shoulder non contact
Maybe to start off, restrict the two man tackle, i.e. one man at a time can make contact. Too often 2/3 men are all in making contact and they win the free. No harm in blocking off the escape route for the ball carrier by having the arms out and letting him come make the contact, but it is frustrating to see a player getting slapped about by a crowd and getting blown up for it.
Difficult to police at the pace of county level maybe compared to club level, but it would improve the game in an attacking sense.
Quote from: manwithnoplan on May 24, 2023, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 12:30:25 PM
So I'll ask again, what are we looking for in the tackle? Attempts to play the ball but any connection to wrist arm torso should be pulled, leaving the game outside of shoulder on shoulder non contact
Maybe to start off, restrict the two man tackle, i.e. one man at a time can make contact. Too often 2/3 men are all in making contact and they win the free. No harm in blocking off the escape route for the ball carrier by having the arms out and letting him come make the contact, but it is frustrating to see a player getting slapped about by a crowd and getting blown up for it.
Difficult to police at the pace of county level maybe compared to club level, but it would improve the game in an attacking sense.
The bit in bold by the rules is a foul either way. The only contact allowed is on the ball or shoulder to shoulder, are we wanting to go down that road?
Personally I'm looking for shirt pulling, pulling the hand/arm back, frontal charge, if I see genuine attempts to play the ball with an open hand I'm playing on, if the player doesnt release the ball its overcarrying.
Now I may be completely wrong and I've certainly been pulled many times during a game and very recently afterwards, I get one go at it and explain why I'm giving the free either way, rightly or wrongly. To me there is not much wrong with the game, if the ref is calling that for both sides then the teams need to react to that, don't keep doing the same things (taking the ball into a tackle) as it won't change the calls
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
You are playing the man not the ball..
You can't tackle with a closed fist, yes clean contact on the ball is fine, its a yellow card if connecting with the player
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
You are playing the man not the ball..
You can't tackle with a closed fist, yes clean contact on the ball is fine, its a yellow card if connecting with the player
Making contact with the ball with a closed fist is tackling with a closed fist.
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
You are playing the man not the ball..
You can't tackle with a closed fist, yes clean contact on the ball is fine, its a yellow card if connecting with the player
Making contact with the ball with a closed fist is tackling with a closed fist.
All about interpretation too, if that is a clean take of the ball and no contact on the man did he foul him?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
You are playing the man not the ball..
You can't tackle with a closed fist, yes clean contact on the ball is fine, its a yellow card if connecting with the player
Making contact with the ball with a closed fist is tackling with a closed fist.
All about interpretation too, if that is a clean take of the ball and no contact on the man did he foul him?
So you can tackle with a closed fist?
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 03:07:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
You are playing the man not the ball..
You can't tackle with a closed fist, yes clean contact on the ball is fine, its a yellow card if connecting with the player
Making contact with the ball with a closed fist is tackling with a closed fist.
All about interpretation too, if that is a clean take of the ball and no contact on the man did he foul him?
So you can tackle with a closed fist?
All I'm saying is if you tackle the ball cleanly, me personally I won't be blowing for it, if the ball is the only thing that is hit. It's a interpretation of that action
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 03:12:10 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 03:07:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
You are playing the man not the ball..
You can't tackle with a closed fist, yes clean contact on the ball is fine, its a yellow card if connecting with the player
Making contact with the ball with a closed fist is tackling with a closed fist.
All about interpretation too, if that is a clean take of the ball and no contact on the man did he foul him?
So you can tackle with a closed fist?
All I'm saying is if you tackle the ball cleanly, me personally I won't be blowing for it, if the ball is the only thing that is hit. It's a interpretation of that action
I agree with you and i don't think any referee would give a free in them circumstances but it goes to show how daft the rules are.
Those clean takes on the ball are great to see.. I did a game the the other day, from my view, the lad slides in on the ball, misses the ball and the man, the player falls over from no contact (from what I seen at the time) the player who slid in collected the ball and went up the pitch.
On reflection and after it been shown to me, the easy thing was to just give the foul, but at the time, and I wasn't more than some meters away, he made no contact with the player, so play on!
Players will only want a foul if they are tackled and if their own players are tackling the opposition then its not a foul, sorry for the rant ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 03:54:03 PM
Those clean takes on the ball are great to see.. I did a game the the other day, from my view, the lad slides in on the ball, misses the ball and the man, the player falls over from no contact (from what I seen at the time) the player who slid in collected the ball and went up the pitch.
On reflection and after it been shown to me, the easy thing was to just give the foul, but at the time, and I wasn't more than some meters away, he made no contact with the player, so play on!
Players will only want a foul if they are tackled and if their own players are tackling the opposition then its not a foul, sorry for the rant ;D
Question MR2.
I had a debate with a lad recently.
If I lose possession of the ball and it goes to ground, can I dive and flick the ball away with my hand...even though I've touched it clearly on the ground?
By the way, you should do up a booklet of questions for coaches regarding rules of the game. I'd say we'd get about 5 out of 10 correct.
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 03:54:03 PM
Those clean takes on the ball are great to see.. I did a game the the other day, from my view, the lad slides in on the ball, misses the ball and the man, the player falls over from no contact (from what I seen at the time) the player who slid in collected the ball and went up the pitch.
On reflection and after it been shown to me, the easy thing was to just give the foul, but at the time, and I wasn't more than some meters away, he made no contact with the player, so play on!
Players will only want a foul if they are tackled and if their own players are tackling the opposition then its not a foul, sorry for the rant ;D
Question MR2.
I had a debate with a lad recently.
If I lose possession of the ball and it goes to ground, can I dive and flick the ball away with my hand...even though I've touched it clearly on the ground?
By the way, you should do up a booklet of questions for coaches regarding rules of the game. I'd say we'd get about 5 out of 10 correct.
You fall with the ball and lose possession of the ball you can play it, can even flick it into the net! Can you imagine explaining that on the day ;D
some questions come up every year and I query them every time
That last one caught the current Mayowestros manager out when he was analyst on last year's Tailteann Final ;D :D
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 04:28:13 PM
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Question: So Petey Harte gained the "rights" of the keeper by wearing the yellow jersey
But did it have his number on it?
Is it ok for a player to wear a number allocated to another player on the Championship team sheet
Not sure whose jersey he took, I guess its similar to a guy put off as a blood sub having to change his jersey?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 04:28:13 PM
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Our seniors were playing 2 different lads in nets at different stages, neither were keepers. One made a run out and the other hung back in one game, possession lost and the one with the outfield jersey on that day tried to take the kick out but the ref didn't allow him to kick it because the other man had the keepers jersey on at half forward. Do you agree with that one?
I can see the keeper jersey going soon if the game keeps going like it is now, no advantage in it. If you like saving shots you may go to the soccer.
Quote from: clonian on May 24, 2023, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 04:28:13 PM
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Our seniors were playing 2 different lads in nets at different stages, neither were keepers. One made a run out and the other hung back in one game, possession lost and the one with the outfield jersey on that day tried to take the kick out but the ref didn't allow him to kick it because the other man had the keepers jersey on at half forward. Do you agree with that one?
I can see the keeper jersey going soon if the game keeps going like it is now, no advantage in it. If you like saving shots you may go to the soccer.
I'd be surprised if that one is in the rule book.
Quote from: clonian on May 24, 2023, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 04:28:13 PM
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Our seniors were playing 2 different lads in nets at different stages, neither were keepers. One made a run out and the other hung back in one game, possession lost and the one with the outfield jersey on that day tried to take the kick out but the ref didn't allow him to kick it because the other man had the keepers jersey on at half forward. Do you agree with that one?
I can see the keeper jersey going soon if the game keeps going like it is now, no advantage in it. If you like saving shots you may go to the soccer.
Is the main "right" the keepers jersey give is to touch ball on ground in small square? Kickouts not an issue, anyone can take. I did see a game where an out field player took the kick out, ran on and received the ball back from the receiver. Ref blew for it, rightly, and the teams manager went mad shouting "he isn't the keeper" but ref said he took kick and can't receive it back, but the keeper could have as he didn't take kick.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 24, 2023, 05:20:35 PM
Quote from: clonian on May 24, 2023, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 04:28:13 PM
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Our seniors were playing 2 different lads in nets at different stages, neither were keepers. One made a run out and the other hung back in one game, possession lost and the one with the outfield jersey on that day tried to take the kick out but the ref didn't allow him to kick it because the other man had the keepers jersey on at half forward. Do you agree with that one?
I can see the keeper jersey going soon if the game keeps going like it is now, no advantage in it. If you like saving shots you may go to the soccer.
I'd be surprised if that one is in the rule book.
It is in official guide
If an outfield player takes the kick out, the rule states, the actual gk must stay on the goal line !
Quote from: Louther on May 24, 2023, 05:25:18 PM
Quote from: clonian on May 24, 2023, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 04:28:13 PM
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Our seniors were playing 2 different lads in nets at different stages, neither were keepers. One made a run out and the other hung back in one game, possession lost and the one with the outfield jersey on that day tried to take the kick out but the ref didn't allow him to kick it because the other man had the keepers jersey on at half forward. Do you agree with that one?
I can see the keeper jersey going soon if the game keeps going like it is now, no advantage in it. If you like saving shots you may go to the soccer.
Is the main "right" the keepers jersey give is to touch ball on ground in small square? Kickouts not an issue, anyone can take. I did see a game where an out field player took the kick out, ran on and received the ball back from the receiver. Ref blew for it, rightly, and the teams manager went mad shouting "he isn't the keeper" but ref said he took kick and can't receive it back, but the keeper could have as he didn't take kick.
Also the keeper can't be shouldered/charged in the small square, all other players can be.
The rule about the kickout only says keeper so in this case the ref was wrong. Yet another terribly drafted rule in the rule-book.
QuoteA player in direct receipt of a kick-out may not pass the ball to his team's goalkeeper without another player playing the ball.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 03:12:10 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 03:07:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
You are playing the man not the ball..
You can't tackle with a closed fist, yes clean contact on the ball is fine, its a yellow card if connecting with the player
Making contact with the ball with a closed fist is tackling with a closed fist.
All about interpretation too, if that is a clean take of the ball and no contact on the man did he foul him?
So you can tackle with a closed fist?
All I'm saying is if you tackle the ball cleanly, me personally I won't be blowing for it, if the ball is the only thing that is hit. It's a interpretation of that action
This is pretty much the interpretation by I'd say about 90% of refs.
Some refs will blow at any sight of a closed fist around the body.
Of the 90% some will just blow for a foul for a closed fist tackle, some will give a ticking and some will give a yellow and some will give a red if there's contact with the body - depending on how close the fist was to the ball/the level of contact with the body.
The rules committee could definitely do with providing clarification on this.
So , when Peter Harte went into goals, he technically wasn't the "keeper" for 10 minutes? So he couldn't have touched the ball on the ground in small square?
What if Morgan was sent off, and Harte went into goals? Would he have had the keepers privileges then?
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 24, 2023, 10:34:03 PM
So , when Peter Harte went into goals, he technically wasn't the "keeper" for 10 minutes? So he couldn't have touched the ball on the ground in small square?
What if Morgan was sent off, and Harte went into goals? Would he have had the keepers privileges then?
While wearing the keepers top he or whoever wears it had the privileges of a keeper, which is basically in the small square
The new trial rules about the kick out having to cross the 45 and the on where free kicks must go forward do not make sense, they are going to encourage mass defence. If keeper is hitting a kick out then obviously all the other teams forwards are going to go back to midfield as they know that's where the kick is going, they are going to behind the opposition 45. Same for the free kick, if you give away a free and you know it can't go backwards then obviously you and probably everyone on your team is going to be goalside
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 08:36:25 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on May 24, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
Quote from: smort on May 22, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Some new rules bring trialled...
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/ (https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-to-trial-experimental-kick-out-and-free-kick-rules/)
Terrible ideas, the rule of not being able to go back to the keeper worked well. When teams are chasing games they push up on kicks and the keeper has to go long, so there is no need for a rule to make a team lump a ball if the opposition is happy enough to concede the kick out
Why do they have to keep changing the rules?
Seems just to be a rule change for the sake of it.
If they'd sort out the tackle, that'd be a decent start.
Change is needed, there are far too many passages of non contact lateral (boring) play, it's horrible to watch and frustrating for many players. These are.interesting proposals and worth looking at, but don't go far enough.
I have reservations around the kick out, I don't think it's really the route of the problem, certainly not in football.
I like the proposal around not kicking the ball backwards from deadball situations, but I'd like that to go further to stop the ball going back over half way line once it's gone forward, that would need to be accompanied by a rule requiring 2/3 players to remain in opposition half at all times though.
I think I'd stop refereeing football when or if these rules come in. Hurling is so easy to ref
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2023, 07:38:01 AM
I think I'd stop refereeing football when or if these rules come in. Hurling is so easy to ref
Football is always changing
Quote from: seafoid on May 25, 2023, 08:18:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2023, 07:38:01 AM
I think I'd stop refereeing football when or if these rules come in. Hurling is so easy to ref
Football is always changing
Its dung, and full of moany cnuts..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2023, 07:38:01 AM
I think I'd stop refereeing football when or if these rules come in. Hurling is so easy to ref
Especially when most of the rules in the book are ignored ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2023, 08:46:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2023, 07:38:01 AM
I think I'd stop refereeing football when or if these rules come in. Hurling is so easy to ref
Especially when most of the rules in the book are ignored ;D
Makes for a better game, but I can see you the boring back passing lateral 15 men behind the ball keeper being the main scorer pulling and dragging type of guy.
2 different issues entirely.
Don't know why they bother with Refs in Hurley stuff, sure the sideline official could keep the time and scores and throw the ball in.
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 24, 2023, 08:17:46 PM
Quote from: Louther on May 24, 2023, 05:25:18 PM
Quote from: clonian on May 24, 2023, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 04:28:13 PM
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Our seniors were playing 2 different lads in nets at different stages, neither were keepers. One made a run out and the other hung back in one game, possession lost and the one with the outfield jersey on that day tried to take the kick out but the ref didn't allow him to kick it because the other man had the keepers jersey on at half forward. Do you agree with that one?
I can see the keeper jersey going soon if the game keeps going like it is now, no advantage in it. If you like saving shots you may go to the soccer.
Is the main "right" the keepers jersey give is to touch ball on ground in small square? Kickouts not an issue, anyone can take. I did see a game where an out field player took the kick out, ran on and received the ball back from the receiver. Ref blew for it, rightly, and the teams manager went mad shouting "he isn't the keeper" but ref said he took kick and can't receive it back, but the keeper could have as he didn't take kick.
Also the keeper can't be shouldered/charged in the small square, all other players can be.
The rule about the kickout only says keeper so in this case the ref was wrong. Yet another terribly drafted rule in the rule-book.
QuoteA player in direct receipt of a kick-out may not pass the ball to his team's goalkeeper without another player playing the ball.
Ref was wrong, only if the actual keeper had been standing in the goal line when the kick out was taken.
Quote from: LeoMc on May 25, 2023, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 24, 2023, 08:17:46 PM
Quote from: Louther on May 24, 2023, 05:25:18 PM
Quote from: clonian on May 24, 2023, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 04:28:13 PM
Put a keeper off in sin bin lately. The opposition where giving off that the player who went into nets had to be wearing a keepers top!! This based on Tyrone game on TV the week before..
I explained that they didn't have to wear a keepers top, wearing the keepers top only gives the 'keeper' the rights of a keeper, nothing else. these people giving off are senior div 1 managers
Our seniors were playing 2 different lads in nets at different stages, neither were keepers. One made a run out and the other hung back in one game, possession lost and the one with the outfield jersey on that day tried to take the kick out but the ref didn't allow him to kick it because the other man had the keepers jersey on at half forward. Do you agree with that one?
I can see the keeper jersey going soon if the game keeps going like it is now, no advantage in it. If you like saving shots you may go to the soccer.
Is the main "right" the keepers jersey give is to touch ball on ground in small square? Kickouts not an issue, anyone can take. I did see a game where an out field player took the kick out, ran on and received the ball back from the receiver. Ref blew for it, rightly, and the teams manager went mad shouting "he isn't the keeper" but ref said he took kick and can't receive it back, but the keeper could have as he didn't take kick.
Also the keeper can't be shouldered/charged in the small square, all other players can be.
The rule about the kickout only says keeper so in this case the ref was wrong. Yet another terribly drafted rule in the rule-book.
QuoteA player in direct receipt of a kick-out may not pass the ball to his team's goalkeeper without another player playing the ball.
Ref was wrong, only if the actual keeper had been standing in the goal line when the kick out was taken.
That's interesting, never considered that. Looking back it was possible the keeper wasn't in his small square when it happened. See a lot of that in juvenile matches where outfield player ends up taking kick out but never paid much attention to keepers position. This was the first time I'd seen the non GK kicker take ball back off receiver and assumed that's why he threw it up.
Cheers lads.
Spirt of the rule is that the person who takes the kickout can't receive the next pass. Everyone knows that, and a technical error in drafting doesn't take away from that. Therefore, in my view ref was absolutely right to call it. Common sense approach.
Quote from: Hound on May 28, 2023, 08:40:47 AM
Spirt of the rule is that the person who takes the kickout can't receive the next pass. Everyone knows that, and a technical error in drafting doesn't take away from that. Therefore, in my view ref was absolutely right to call it. Common sense approach.
The problem with the common sense approach is it's not particularly common and leads to wildly inconsistent decision making. I would expect the rule as written to be implemented surely that would be the common sense approach. What other rules should the ref ignore and or change in the name of common sense?
Quote from: David McKeown on May 28, 2023, 12:27:30 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 28, 2023, 08:40:47 AM
Spirt of the rule is that the person who takes the kickout can't receive the next pass. Everyone knows that, and a technical error in drafting doesn't take away from that. Therefore, in my view ref was absolutely right to call it. Common sense approach.
The problem with the common sense approach is it's not particularly common and leads to wildly inconsistent decision making. I would expect the rule as written to be implemented surely that would be the common sense approach. What other rules should the ref ignore and or change in the name of common sense?
And while the rule is in place it should be adhered to, until it's amended that is, won't be long before plenty expose loophole's in the rules to suit
But the ref (rightly or wrongly) will make a call and that's that, that can't be changed at the time
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 03:12:10 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 03:07:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 24, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2023, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2023, 02:06:37 PM
Why is pulling the ball from a player's hand not allowed?
Would it not at least tip the balance back towards defenders against ball carriers who seemingly can do what they like.
I don't see tackling the ball with fist specifically banned in the T .O.?
You are playing the man not the ball..
You can't tackle with a closed fist, yes clean contact on the ball is fine, its a yellow card if connecting with the player
Making contact with the ball with a closed fist is tackling with a closed fist.
All about interpretation too, if that is a clean take of the ball and no contact on the man did he foul him?
So you can tackle with a closed fist?
All I'm saying is if you tackle the ball cleanly, me personally I won't be blowing for it, if the ball is the only thing that is hit. It's a interpretation of that action
Ref just ruled out a goal in the Ulster minor final for exactly that.
That goal being disallowed was a shocking call
Quote from: Link on May 28, 2023, 07:33:00 PM
That goal being disallowed was a shocking call
Goal for each disallowed that should have stood, Monaghans in particular.
Quote from: Wolfetones on May 28, 2023, 07:37:27 PM
Quote from: Link on May 28, 2023, 07:33:00 PM
That goal being disallowed was a shocking call
Goal for each disallowed that should have stood, Monaghans in particular.
Did monaghan player not collect the ball inside the D? Thought wasn't allowed.
Roscommon's 6 minute possession is surely the last straw before a rule change at next year's congress.
The most obvious answer is either a shot clock like in basketball or a limited number of possessions like in American Football/Rugby League. For shot clock, some time between 60 and 90 seconds, for possessions ~15.
I'm sure the GAA will come up with an alternative solution that they'll mess up such as a limited number of backward passes or disallow passes into your own half.
For possessions or shot clock, it would need to be tasked with someone else besides the ref to monitor. 2 umpires perhaps?
A shot clock will just turn the game into basketball then. Defending team will all rush back to defend the scoring zone
Plus the clock in basketball is clearly visible for all players and is independent of the referees
Quote from: smort on May 30, 2023, 03:42:31 PM
A shot clock will just turn the game into basketball then. Defending team will all rush back to defend the scoring zone
Plus the clock in basketball is clearly visible for all players and is independent of the referees
That's basically what happens in Gaelic Football now anyway, bar the equivalent of a full-court press on some kickouts.
I know its been discussed before, but what were the draw backs to not being allowed to cross back in to your own half? I thought that might be the easiest rule change to trial first.
Quote from: HiMucker on May 30, 2023, 03:47:29 PM
I know its been discussed before, but what were the draw backs to not being allowed to cross back in to your own half? I thought that might be the easiest rule change to trial first.
Would work. Might lead to a lot of tactical fouls of players once they enter the opposition's half. I guess they could leave free kicks exempt.
Quote from: HiMucker on May 30, 2023, 03:47:29 PM
I know its been discussed before, but what were the draw backs to not being allowed to cross back in to your own half? I thought that might be the easiest rule change to trial first.
I've been advocating not being allowed to pass backwards across either '45 for years now (with the award of a '45 for the opposition for doing so). I would truly love to see it being trialled at a high level like McKenna Cup or Ryan Cup. There's bound to be drawbacks, but if it has the desired effect - making it progressively more difficult for a winning team to see out the game with elongated periods of sideways and backwards possession - it would take one hell of a downside to appear, in order for it not to improve the game.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 30, 2023, 03:55:42 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 30, 2023, 03:47:29 PM
I know its been discussed before, but what were the draw backs to not being allowed to cross back in to your own half? I thought that might be the easiest rule change to trial first.
Would work. Might lead to a lot of tactical fouls of players once they enter the opposition's half. I guess they could leave free kicks exempt.
This is why using both the 45s as backcourt lines is better. A tactical just inside the first one and the opponent still has 90m of space to work with. A tactical foul just inside the second one and it's a kickable free at county level, or at worst a corridor of uncertainty high ball into the square at junior club levels.
The main thing is that there has to be a change ,whether its shot clock, backward passes, possessions, etc.
I guess you can't have a vote in Congress to just change and the change be decided in due course?
You'd need to have the specifics of what the change will be?
Could have lots of different factions opting for different solutions so whichever one gets picked for the vote won't be unanimous and so the 2/3rds majority would be difficult to achieve.
There's only one solution - less players
Players are fitter than ever , there's no room for manoeuvre with blanket defences and even the keepers coming out leaves even less room. Take 6 or 8 players out of the equation and you'd see a more open, attacking game.
What about the poor Junior B man with a scatter of pints the night before?
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 30, 2023, 05:39:51 PM
There's only one solution - less players
Players are fitter than ever , there's no room for manoeuvre with blanket defences and even the keepers coming out leaves even less room. Take 6 or 8 players out of the equation and you'd see a more open, attacking game.
Would fewer players not mean more room, and therefore more room to play keep ball??
The enemy of keep ball is contact. The enemy of contact is space.
There is perhaps an alternative world in which GAA coaches would utilise this space to play more expansive and attacking football. But those coaches are not in Ireland and not in 2023.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 30, 2023, 03:37:35 PM
Roscommon's 6 minute possession is surely the last straw before a rule change at next year's congress.
The most obvious answer is either a shot clock like in basketball or a limited number of possessions like in American Football/Rugby League. For shot clock, some time between 60 and 90 seconds, for possessions ~15.
I'm sure the GAA will come up with an alternative solution that they'll mess up such as a limited number of backward passes or disallow passes into your own half.
For possessions or shot clock, it would need to be tasked with someone else besides the ref to monitor. 2 umpires perhaps?
So the Rossie's get competitive in Croker and now ye want a shot clock😂 not much point taking a shot if your
80 mtrs from the opposition goal and imagine how long it would take for coaches to organise a system to keep the team in possession at bay until the clock runs down. No one was calling for a shot clock when the dubs were playing it over and back on the 45mtr line against Tyrone in the 2017 all Ireland semi or in the final that year against Mayo when they ran down the clock at the end of the game. Game management was the buzz word or was it brilliant game management. Those are just 2 instances of hundreds but when the Rossie's dared to do it then time for a rule change. Our super 8 game against the dubs a few years ago we scored 2-16 but conceded 4-24, we were a laughing stock after that game but now we're wrecking the beautiful game😎 tough s... lads,
We are Ros. 😎😎
And we don't know our place ;)
Long may we continue to be so ignorant :D.
If ye want to criticise why not start with the team that refuses to challenge the team in possession?
Bring in a rule that if you don't tackle the man with the ball it's a 13m free.
It's no sillier than some of the daftness proposed.
Quote from: giveballaghback on May 30, 2023, 06:31:55 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 30, 2023, 03:37:35 PM
Roscommon's 6 minute possession is surely the last straw before a rule change at next year's congress.
The most obvious answer is either a shot clock like in basketball or a limited number of possessions like in American Football/Rugby League. For shot clock, some time between 60 and 90 seconds, for possessions ~15.
I'm sure the GAA will come up with an alternative solution that they'll mess up such as a limited number of backward passes or disallow passes into your own half.
For possessions or shot clock, it would need to be tasked with someone else besides the ref to monitor. 2 umpires perhaps?
So the Rossie's get competitive in Croker and now ye want a shot clock😂 not much point taking a shot if your
80 mtrs from the opposition goal and imagine how long it would take for coaches to organise a system to keep the team in possession at bay until the clock runs down. No one was calling for a shot clock when the dubs were playing it over and back on the 45mtr line against Tyrone in the 2017 all Ireland semi or in the final that year against Mayo when they ran down the clock at the end of the game. Game management was the buzz word or was it brilliant game management. Those are just 2 instances of hundreds but when the Rossie's dared to do it then time for a rule change. Our super 8 game against the dubs a few years ago we scored 2-16 but conceded 4-24, we were a laughing stock after that game but now we're wrecking the beautiful game😎 tough s... lads,
We are Ros. 😎😎
Actually I have been looking for a rule change since the possession game went mainstream.
Every team does it so don't be so precious thinking this is anti-Roscommon.
I'd be happy for my own team to do it for the last 15 min of an All-Ireland final to maintain a 1 point lead, but I would prefer it restricted in some way.
The fault for Roscommon's protracted spell of passing lies with Dublin, not Roscommon. They didn't engage to try and win the ball back.
Changing any rule for this glitch in the the game has to be designed to create a contest for possession, not to put a time limit on it. It has to be made worth the risk of players coming out of a defensive mass, and to do that there must be a realistic chance of a turnover. The written rules of rugby for are centred on the premise that control of the ball is contested at all times in open play, and the rules reward execution of superior skill to gain that control.Shot clock is an admission of defeat. 13-a side would make the situation worse because there is even more space and less opportunity to pressure the ball.
How can the same contest, or similar, be achieved in Gaelic football? It comes down to how easy it is for player to escape pressure, or to dispose of the ball under pressure. Steps out the tackle is an endemic problem, most especially if the the ball carrier is shaping to shoot. Defenders have zero chance if an attacking player is given 7 or 8 steps on the loop. Throwing the ball is the other menace. Its done so casually and so often now that refs barely even bother calling the free any more. The skill level needed to retain possession drops as a result.
Some possible solutions (bearing in mind the nightmare workload on officials already;
1) Ban the handpass over the bar as a scoring option, or indeed a ball palmed to the net from a handpass received.
2) 2 points for a point from play outside 45
3) Abolish the offensive/defensive mark
4) A player tackled and going to ground (knees on the ground) in possession of the ball must immediately release. Holding or lying on the ball on the ground = free (it already is but most refs chicken out and throw the ball up)
5) 5 steps maximum and indirect free for the infringement (take the pressure off the ref for calling a defender for over carrying)
6) If the ball is carried back into own 45 when in possession then it must be kick-passed until out of the '45
Some great points there Angus. The steps one is probably a major contributing factor to retreating defences alright.
a shot clock on the Mark would be useful, I thought I remembered when they were introduced that you have 3 seconds to kick it or something? Now it's lined up like a free kick.
I agree about the Fist passing the ball over the bar . It is an abomination
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 31, 2023, 12:11:59 AM
I agree about the Fist passing the ball over the bar . It is an abomination
Yes, 💯.
But, the forward mark is worse. It's utterly abused, teams manufacturing marks to get a free shot at goal - grugan's mark in the Ulster final last minute, rock got a similar one Vs Rossies on Sunday too. Crappy 10m passes from just over the 45 into the chest for totally uncontested catches and resulting shot on goal.
Clifford"s 2(?) Superb takes in the all Ireland final last year are probably the only examples I can think of where the rule produced the desired outcome - a superb high catch of a contested long ball. Great as they were to witness, we'd be better off just getting rid of the rule.
Quote from: Angus MacGyver on May 30, 2023, 10:37:24 PM
The fault for Roscommon's protracted spell of passing lies with Dublin, not Roscommon. They didn't engage to try and win the ball back.
Changing any rule for this glitch in the the game has to be designed to create a contest for possession, not to put a time limit on it. It has to be made worth the risk of players coming out of a defensive mass, and to do that there must be a realistic chance of a turnover. The written rules of rugby for are centred on the premise that control of the ball is contested at all times in open play, and the rules reward execution of superior skill to gain that control.Shot clock is an admission of defeat. 13-a side would make the situation worse because there is even more space and less opportunity to pressure the ball.
How can the same contest, or similar, be achieved in Gaelic football? It comes down to how easy it is for player to escape pressure, or to dispose of the ball under pressure. Steps out the tackle is an endemic problem, most especially if the the ball carrier is shaping to shoot. Defenders have zero chance if an attacking player is given 7 or 8 steps on the loop. Throwing the ball is the other menace. Its done so casually and so often now that refs barely even bother calling the free any more. The skill level needed to retain possession drops as a result.
Some possible solutions (bearing in mind the nightmare workload on officials already;
1) Ban the handpass over the bar as a scoring option, or indeed a ball palmed to the net from a handpass received.
2) 2 points for a point from play outside 45
3) Abolish the offensive/defensive mark
4) A player tackled and going to ground (knees on the ground) in possession of the ball must immediately release. Holding or lying on the ball on the ground = free (it already is but most refs chicken out and throw the ball up)
5) 5 steps maximum and indirect free for the infringement (take the pressure off the ref for calling a defender for over carrying)
6) If the ball is carried back into own 45 when in possession then it must be kick-passed until out of the '45
Hard to disagree with any of that, good post.
Quote from: onefineday on May 31, 2023, 12:44:20 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 31, 2023, 12:11:59 AM
I agree about the Fist passing the ball over the bar . It is an abomination
Yes, 💯.
But, the forward mark is worse. It's utterly abused, teams manufacturing marks to get a free shot at goal - grugan's mark in the Ulster final last minute, rock got a similar one Vs Rossies on Sunday too. Crappy 10m passes from just over the 45 into the chest for totally uncontested catches and resulting shot on goal.
Clifford"s 2(?) Superb takes in the all Ireland final last year are probably the only examples I can think of where the rule produced the desired outcome - a superb high catch of a contested long ball. Great as they were to witness, we'd be better off just getting rid of the rule.
Great fielding but if it wasn't for the mark he would be tearing in on goal which is what i'd prefer to see than a tap over the bar.
Why can't people just leave the game alone? Every week something happens then everyone looking the rules changed. Who would patrol a shot clock at a club game for example? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. Seems like people just want to go back to the 'good old days' ::) of catch the ball and lump it as far as they can and hope your man gets it. No harm to anyone but i'd much prefer to watch any gaelic game from the 00's onwards than any of the games you see from the 70's or 80's.
I'd need a watch for the sin bin, the stop watch for the shot clock, the ordinary watch for the game and the watch to ensure the stoppages for injuries and so on is done!! Pure shite talk
Quote from: inowbest on May 31, 2023, 09:13:01 AM
Why can't people just leave the game alone? Every week something happens then everyone looking the rules changed. Who would patrol a shot clock at a club game for example? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. Seems like people just want to go back to the 'good old days' ::) of catch the ball and lump it as far as they can and hope your man gets it. No harm to anyone but i'd much prefer to watch any gaelic game from the 00's onwards than any of the games you see from the 70's or 80's.
I agree with the the sentiment here to a large extent. Bringing in radical changes like a shot clock as a knee jerk reaction is ludicrous. That would turn football into some sort of poxy turns-based game like rugby league. Not where we need to go. Learn from the damage done by the inside mark!
However, there is room to look at the details and interpretations of the game we already have.
I've started watching a fair bit of AFL again recently and despite its other flaws, the jeopardy involved in the constant risk of being turned over in possession makes for a compelling contest. We need more of that in football. Figuring out how is the issue. Most of the suggestions I've seen are likely to be counterproductive and full of risk of unintended consequence.
A system of repeated trial games under new rules, not in national competitions, is needed- does that exist?. Trying out a committees deliberations in the league is not satisfactory.
Quote from: Angus MacGyver on May 31, 2023, 10:25:20 AM
Quote from: inowbest on May 31, 2023, 09:13:01 AM
Why can't people just leave the game alone? Every week something happens then everyone looking the rules changed. Who would patrol a shot clock at a club game for example? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. Seems like people just want to go back to the 'good old days' ::) of catch the ball and lump it as far as they can and hope your man gets it. No harm to anyone but i'd much prefer to watch any gaelic game from the 00's onwards than any of the games you see from the 70's or 80's.
I agree with the the sentiment here to a large extent. Bringing in radical changes like a shot clock as a knee jerk reaction is ludicrous. That would turn football into some sort of poxy turns-based game like rugby league. Not where we need to go. Learn from the damage done by the inside mark!
However, there is room to look at the details and interpretations of the game we already have.
I've started watching a fair bit of AFL again recently and despite its other flaws, the jeopardy involved in the constant risk of being turned over in possession makes for a compelling contest. We need more of that in football. Figuring out how is the issue. Most of the suggestions I've seen are likely to be counterproductive and full of risk of unintended consequence.
A system of repeated trial games under new rules, not in national competitions, is needed- does that exist?. Trying out a committees deliberations in the league is not satisfactory.
Was thinking about this overnight Angus and think you have hit on something regarding the risk of turnovers in the AFL. They obviously have a more robust tackle, which I don't think could be introduced to GAA. However, I think we need to incentivise and reward teams for pushing up, rather than retreating. One thing I thought of was to return the kickout to the small square, for all kickouts. This automatically would get teams 15 yards further up the pitch and make the short kickout a bit trickier
Also, what about restarting the game with a throw-in at midfield after a goal is scored
Quote from: smort on May 31, 2023, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: Angus MacGyver on May 31, 2023, 10:25:20 AM
Quote from: inowbest on May 31, 2023, 09:13:01 AM
Why can't people just leave the game alone? Every week something happens then everyone looking the rules changed. Who would patrol a shot clock at a club game for example? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous. Seems like people just want to go back to the 'good old days' ::) of catch the ball and lump it as far as they can and hope your man gets it. No harm to anyone but i'd much prefer to watch any gaelic game from the 00's onwards than any of the games you see from the 70's or 80's.
I agree with the the sentiment here to a large extent. Bringing in radical changes like a shot clock as a knee jerk reaction is ludicrous. That would turn football into some sort of poxy turns-based game like rugby league. Not where we need to go. Learn from the damage done by the inside mark!
However, there is room to look at the details and interpretations of the game we already have.
I've started watching a fair bit of AFL again recently and despite its other flaws, the jeopardy involved in the constant risk of being turned over in possession makes for a compelling contest. We need more of that in football. Figuring out how is the issue. Most of the suggestions I've seen are likely to be counterproductive and full of risk of unintended consequence.
A system of repeated trial games under new rules, not in national competitions, is needed- does that exist?. Trying out a committees deliberations in the league is not satisfactory.
Was thinking about this overnight Angus and think you have hit on something regarding the risk of turnovers in the AFL. They obviously have a more robust tackle, which I don't think could be introduced to GAA. However, I think we need to incentivise and reward teams for pushing up, rather than retreating. One thing I thought of was to return the kickout to the small square, for all kickouts. This automatically would get teams 15 yards further up the pitch and make the short kickout a bit trickier
By the small square do you mean the square that contains the penalty spot? That isn't a bad idea. I'd go further and say you can't return within the 14 yard line once you cross it. The pitch is too big at the minute and difficult to turn over possession. Even reducing it by a small amount would increase the opportunity for turnovers without radically changing the game
The small rectangle / 6 yard box ( :-X) is what I meant
Just make a new sport while you're at it
Whatever new rules you put in place a manager/coach will look at it and work it towards their needs.
Possession football is all that matters, the more you have of the ball the more you control, millions watch, love and support soccer, its a possession game and the team with the most possession usually wins.
Its changed over the years, some say for the better, but its very boring at times
no need to change ever rule . just allow a robust tackle the way every one is brought up to play. problem solved
And never mind the effin ball ::)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2023, 12:33:45 PM
Just make a new sport while you're at it
Whatever new rules you put in place a manager/coach will look at it and work it towards their needs.
Possession football is all that matters, the more you have of the ball the more you control, millions watch, love and support soccer, its a possession game and the team with the most possession usually wins.
Its changed over the years, some say for the better, but its very boring at times
Unless it's a Jose Mourinho managed team who loves to control games without the ball and can regularly win games with 30% or less possession.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2023, 12:33:45 PM
Just make a new sport while you're at it
Whatever new rules you put in place a manager/coach will look at it and work it towards their needs.
Possession football is all that matters, the more you have of the ball the more you control, millions watch, love and support soccer, its a possession game and the team with the most possession usually wins.
Its changed over the years, some say for the better, but its very boring at times
So what is your position? As a ref you don't want new rules as they'd be too difficult to police, but you agree that large parts of many games are difficult to watch.
Are you of the opinion we should just accept it and let the game die a slow death as spectators drift away and players shortly thereafter?
Or do you think the rules should be changed (having due regard to volunteers like yourself in making them simple to police) to improve the game as a spectacle and as a sport that players can enjoy?
I've said it many times on here, restricting teams from going back over their halfway line (45/65?) and requiring 2 players to remain in the opposition half at all times should be relatively easy to monitor. Wobbler's punishment of a 45 for transgressions is harsh, but it'd certainly focus minds!
I can understand why some on here, blinded by recent club or county success are of the 'leave the rules alone', but I can't understand why people who agree that large parts of games are tedious would not see the merit in trialling changes.
Is there any other team sport in the world that has chopped and changed it's playing rules as much as GAA football the last 20 years? Arguably the current state of football where it's mainly low risk and where possession is king is a direct result of too much changing already but hey lets do some more rule changing and on this occasion the shit thrown against the wall might stick?
The rugger codes are always changing rules as far as I'm aware.
Rule changes didn't bring in blanket defences.
This nonsense of you have to have so many in the opposition half....how many officials needed to implement that, what would be the sanction? Would there be a sanction of the last man to cross the half way line?
Quote from: onefineday on June 02, 2023, 12:49:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2023, 12:33:45 PM
Just make a new sport while you're at it
Whatever new rules you put in place a manager/coach will look at it and work it towards their needs.
Possession football is all that matters, the more you have of the ball the more you control, millions watch, love and support soccer, its a possession game and the team with the most possession usually wins.
Its changed over the years, some say for the better, but its very boring at times
So what is your position? As a ref you don't want new rules as they'd be too difficult to police, but you agree that large parts of many games are difficult to watch.
Are you of the opinion we should just accept it and let the game die a slow death as spectators drift away and players shortly thereafter?
Or do you think the rules should be changed (having due regard to volunteers like yourself in making them simple to police) to improve the game as a spectacle and as a sport that players can enjoy?
I've said it many times on here, restricting teams from going back over their halfway line (45/65?) and requiring 2 players to remain in the opposition half at all times should be relatively easy to monitor. Wobbler's punishment of a 45 for transgressions is harsh, but it'd certainly focus minds!
I can understand why some on here, blinded by recent club or county success are of the 'leave the rules alone', but I can't understand why people who agree that large parts of games are tedious would not see the merit in trialling changes.
First and foremost I'm a GAA man at many levels, supporter, past player at hurling and football at all levels for many years, a manager in both codes and now for my sins been refereeing for many years at both codes at the highest club level. I believe I've a decent view on things. I've seen plenty of rule changes over the years and I've yet to see one that has actually progressed it (football)
The basics are the same and cannot be changed, if you try and morph it into a different sport then it will be a different sport. My point is defensive football could have been employed many years ago but the managers at the time didn't have the foresight to employ those tactics and when others took a different take on it and it brought reward then they are all at it, back in the 50's when Antrim were good at football they utilised the hand-pass, it got that bad at the time that they thought about changing the rules, this stuff isn't new.
Changing it won't make it better, managing the stuff thats been talked about from a refereeing point of view is just stupid, and if you think its easy then go knock yourself out and be part of the trails
This is a good one from Dublin club football.
Division 2 league game in which Ciaran Archer was sent off (was one of Dublin's better players at his age group at minor and U20, not on the senior panel this year).
He was sent off for the incident below (Indo also has this video up on their report I believe)
https://twitter.com/score_beo/status/1664581042282328065
In his report, the ref described it as an assault and said he suffered a rib injury.
Archer duly got the maximum suspension of 96 weeks for an assault on a referee.
Thankfully the video evidence surfaced, Archer appealed, and was cleared (although had to miss 2 games during the appeals process). It was judged to have been more likely to be accidental.
Quote from: Hound on June 02, 2023, 01:26:09 PM
This is a good one from Dublin club football.
Division 2 league game in which Ciaran Archer was sent off (was one of Dublin's better players at his age group at minor and U20, not on the senior panel this year).
He was sent off for the incident below (Indo also has this video up on their report I believe)
https://twitter.com/score_beo/status/1664581042282328065
In his report, the ref described it as an assault and said he suffered a rib injury.
Archer duly got the maximum suspension of 96 weeks for an assault on a referee.
Thankfully the video evidence surfaced, Archer appealed, and was cleared (although had to miss 2 games during the appeals process). It was judged to have been more likely to be accidental.
He does catch him and for the life of me I don't know why he went that direction, that wasn't the easiest path for the player to go.. That being said, I had a collision (accidental) with a player and cracked a rib or worse, I never let on but was in pain/discomfort for around 6 weeks. The video doesn't actually show much tbf, It just doesn't show him being assaulted lol
Quote from: Hound on June 02, 2023, 01:26:09 PM
This is a good one from Dublin club football.
Division 2 league game in which Ciaran Archer was sent off (was one of Dublin's better players at his age group at minor and U20, not on the senior panel this year).
He was sent off for the incident below (Indo also has this video up on their report I believe)
https://twitter.com/score_beo/status/1664581042282328065
In his report, the ref described it as an assault and said he suffered a rib injury.
Archer duly got the maximum suspension of 96 weeks for an assault on a referee.
Thankfully the video evidence surfaced, Archer appealed, and was cleared (although had to miss 2 games during the appeals process). It was judged to have been more likely to be accidental.
What did Archer do? It does look like he throws an arm or something at the ref on the way by. Looks very random. But might just be the angle as hard to tell as he was running behind the ref. Certainly doesn't look much in it, but still looks strange.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2023, 09:05:34 AM
Quote from: onefineday on June 02, 2023, 12:49:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2023, 12:33:45 PM
Just make a new sport while you're at it
Whatever new rules you put in place a manager/coach will look at it and work it towards their needs.
Possession football is all that matters, the more you have of the ball the more you control, millions watch, love and support soccer, its a possession game and the team with the most possession usually wins.
Its changed over the years, some say for the better, but its very boring at times
So what is your position? As a ref you don't want new rules as they'd be too difficult to police, but you agree that large parts of many games are difficult to watch.
Are you of the opinion we should just accept it and let the game die a slow death as spectators drift away and players shortly thereafter?
Or do you think the rules should be changed (having due regard to volunteers like yourself in making them simple to police) to improve the game as a spectacle and as a sport that players can enjoy?
I've said it many times on here, restricting teams from going back over their halfway line (45/65?) and requiring 2 players to remain in the opposition half at all times should be relatively easy to monitor. Wobbler's punishment of a 45 for transgressions is harsh, but it'd certainly focus minds!
I can understand why some on here, blinded by recent club or county success are of the 'leave the rules alone', but I can't understand why people who agree that large parts of games are tedious would not see the merit in trialling changes.
First and foremost I'm a GAA man at many levels, supporter, past player at hurling and football at all levels for many years, a manager in both codes and now for my sins been refereeing for many years at both codes at the highest club level. I believe I've a decent view on things. I've seen plenty of rule changes over the years and I've yet to see one that has actually progressed it (football)
The basics are the same and cannot be changed, if you try and morph it into a different sport then it will be a different sport. My point is defensive football could have been employed many years ago but the managers at the time didn't have the foresight to employ those tactics and when others took a different take on it and it brought reward then they are all at it, back in the 50's when Antrim were good at football they utilised the hand-pass, it got that bad at the time that they thought about changing the rules, this stuff isn't new.
Changing it won't make it better, managing the stuff thats been talked about from a refereeing point of view is just stupid, and if you think its easy then go knock yourself out and be part of the trails
Sideline ball out the hand? Handpassing a goal into the net? Apart from that, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Quote from: JoG2 on June 03, 2023, 12:26:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2023, 09:05:34 AM
Quote from: onefineday on June 02, 2023, 12:49:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2023, 12:33:45 PM
Just make a new sport while you're at it
Whatever new rules you put in place a manager/coach will look at it and work it towards their needs.
Possession football is all that matters, the more you have of the ball the more you control, millions watch, love and support soccer, its a possession game and the team with the most possession usually wins.
Its changed over the years, some say for the better, but its very boring at times
So what is your position? As a ref you don't want new rules as they'd be too difficult to police, but you agree that large parts of many games are difficult to watch.
Are you of the opinion we should just accept it and let the game die a slow death as spectators drift away and players shortly thereafter?
Or do you think the rules should be changed (having due regard to volunteers like yourself in making them simple to police) to improve the game as a spectacle and as a sport that players can enjoy?
I've said it many times on here, restricting teams from going back over their halfway line (45/65?) and requiring 2 players to remain in the opposition half at all times should be relatively easy to monitor. Wobbler's punishment of a 45 for transgressions is harsh, but it'd certainly focus minds!
I can understand why some on here, blinded by recent club or county success are of the 'leave the rules alone', but I can't understand why people who agree that large parts of games are tedious would not see the merit in trialling changes.
First and foremost I'm a GAA man at many levels, supporter, past player at hurling and football at all levels for many years, a manager in both codes and now for my sins been refereeing for many years at both codes at the highest club level. I believe I've a decent view on things. I've seen plenty of rule changes over the years and I've yet to see one that has actually progressed it (football)
The basics are the same and cannot be changed, if you try and morph it into a different sport then it will be a different sport. My point is defensive football could have been employed many years ago but the managers at the time didn't have the foresight to employ those tactics and when others took a different take on it and it brought reward then they are all at it, back in the 50's when Antrim were good at football they utilised the hand-pass, it got that bad at the time that they thought about changing the rules, this stuff isn't new.
Changing it won't make it better, managing the stuff thats been talked about from a refereeing point of view is just stupid, and if you think its easy then go knock yourself out and be part of the trails
Sideline ball out the hand? Handpassing a goal into the net? Apart from that, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Probably handpassing the ball to net, often wondered why not have the 45's out of the hand also?
The Mark, either defensive or attacking pointless. Sin bin hasn't stopped the cynical foul completely gum shields no one is really wearing them, back pass to keeper? Not changed anything I can think of
Mentioned it earlier on this thread but I feel genuine sorrow for those people who maintain that Gaelic Football is perfectly fine and the rules shouldn't change.
Taking enjoyment from football now involves a form of Stockholm syndrome.
I'm bored out of my wits here watching Mayo. Not even they can make it watchable when the opposition has no intent.
https://strawpoll.com/polls/NPgxE6rJ1Z2
Vote on what rules you think would make the biggest positive change to football atm.
Its multiple answers so you can choose as many as you like
Quote from: Hound on June 02, 2023, 01:26:09 PM
This is a good one from Dublin club football.
Division 2 league game in which Ciaran Archer was sent off (was one of Dublin's better players at his age group at minor and U20, not on the senior panel this year).
He was sent off for the incident below (Indo also has this video up on their report I believe)
https://twitter.com/score_beo/status/1664581042282328065
In his report, the ref described it as an assault and said he suffered a rib injury.
Archer duly got the maximum suspension of 96 weeks for an assault on a referee.
Thankfully the video evidence surfaced, Archer appealed, and was cleared (although had to miss 2 games during the appeals process). It was judged to have been more likely to be accidental.
That video looks like it was done up by someone with an AI tool that's the video equivalent of ChatGPT.
QuoteLack of understanding central to Cork-Kerry penalty call criticism, says Gough
'When I explained on the pitch to the Cork players what was happening they seem to go, 'Oh, okay'. And they were fine about it,' David Gough insisted.
Lack of understanding central to Cork-Kerry penalty call criticism, says Gough
'CORRECT DECISION': GAA Referee and LGBTQ+ advocate David Gough at the launch of SuperValu's 'Wear with Pride' Laces campaign. Pic: ©INPHO/Dan Sheridan
THU, 08 JUN, 2023 - 12:09
JOHN FOGARTY
David Gough believes there was a lack of understanding of the black card/penalty rule that he applied in last Saturday's All-Ireland SFC Group 1 game between Cork and Kerry in Páirc Uí Chaoimh.
The Meath referee awarded Kerry a second-half penalty and sin-binned Seán Powter for his foul on Paul Geaney outside the small parallelogram as it denied a goal-scoring opportunity, as the rule stipulates.
Gough said Cork manager John Cleary's reaction towards him and in his post-match interviews demonstrated that he did not know the rule.
Asked about the reaction, Gough said: "Ignorance in that there may have been a lack of knowledge or understanding of the rule. When I explained on the pitch to the Cork players what was happening they seem to go, 'Oh, okay'. And they were fine about it.
"When I was walking off the pitch John Cleary was giving out to me that he said he had seen the incident back and it was outside the penalty box, that it was never a penalty.
"I then explained the situation to him and I'm listening to him on the radio going home and he's saying it was never a goalscoring opportunity. So even he didn't understand what was going on.
"And it's a difficult one because players first of all weren't aware of the rule and second of all then people, pundits, media, managers didn't have a great understanding of the rule and the language of the goalscoring opportunity and what that actually constitutes. So that's why there was so much confusion about it."
Gough revealed the decision was backed up as the right one in a referees meeting on Wednesday night.
"It has been discussed at the highest level last night among the elite referees on the national panel, and there was a unanimous decision made that it was 100% the correct decision. And I only got to see it once. I got to see it in real time. And we have a situation where you know, people are viewing this back 10 and 15 times and still can't arrive at the correct decision."
Mick O'Grady's foul on Niall Scully in the Dublin-Kildare game in Kilkenny later that Saturday evening was also discussed but Seán Hurson's colleagues and administrators agreed that he was accurate not to award a penalty and issue a black card.
"There was a potential one in the Dublin game last weekend and I know Paul Flynn was calling for greater consistency. However, the Dublin one was not a pulldown so it couldn't be considered a black card. Therefore, the goalscoring opportunity, part of the rule doesn't come into play.
"We have a very good understanding as to where these fouls fit in the language of the rules. Yes, the foul was cynical and it prevented a goalscoring opportunity but no, it was not a black card foul, so therefore the application of that rule didn't come into play."
Speaking at SuperValu's launch of their "Wear With Pride" laces initiative for Pride 2023, Gough readily admits he has become a better referee since the GAA participated in Dublin Pride march in 2019 when John Horan was GAA president.
"I can remember sitting in the president's box after the All-Ireland final in 2019, and I was almost in tears explaining to him the sort of self-confidence that came from the self-acceptance and that self-acceptance coming from the GAA. That they had finally accepted me and were willing not only accept me but to publicly put me out there as someone we're very proud of.
Gough, who came out publicly in 2011, said: "I was allowed go on 'The Late Late Show'. For a referee to receive permission (to do that) – we would always have to receive permission to do media – and then to walk in Pride, that gave me a huge swelling of self-confidence.
"We often talk, particularly where I work in a school, that people say they want to bring their full selves to work. It should be no different on the football field. As a human being, I should be bringing my full self to my job as a referee. In 2019, that was the first time I was allowed do that. I definitely saw a big jump in the standard my refereeing that year."
*Produced in Donegal, rainbow laces will be available to purchase in SuperValu stores nationwide for the month of June, with proceeds going to support Belong To, LGBTQ+ Youth Ireland.
Gough pointing out that the Cork players and management were unaware of the actual rule.
On a broader point I think that the GAA could do far better in terms of explaining the rules to people - the fact that Paul Flynn on the Sunday Game was calling for consistency in the application of the rule when the rule was applied correctly in that Kildare Dublin game shows that the understanding/awareness of the rules is sadly lacking in a lot of quarters.
Even when people know the rules they still have something to say!
Gough saying on Parkinson's show that Niall Morgan's black card was for "aggressive body language". Is that a rule I assume ?
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 08, 2023, 03:36:28 PM
QuoteLack of understanding central to Cork-Kerry penalty call criticism, says Gough
'When I explained on the pitch to the Cork players what was happening they seem to go, 'Oh, okay'. And they were fine about it,' David Gough insisted.
Lack of understanding central to Cork-Kerry penalty call criticism, says Gough
'CORRECT DECISION': GAA Referee and LGBTQ+ advocate David Gough at the launch of SuperValu's 'Wear with Pride' Laces campaign. Pic: ©INPHO/Dan Sheridan
THU, 08 JUN, 2023 - 12:09
JOHN FOGARTY
David Gough believes there was a lack of understanding of the black card/penalty rule that he applied in last Saturday's All-Ireland SFC Group 1 game between Cork and Kerry in Páirc Uí Chaoimh.
The Meath referee awarded Kerry a second-half penalty and sin-binned Seán Powter for his foul on Paul Geaney outside the small parallelogram as it denied a goal-scoring opportunity, as the rule stipulates.
Gough said Cork manager John Cleary's reaction towards him and in his post-match interviews demonstrated that he did not know the rule.
Asked about the reaction, Gough said: "Ignorance in that there may have been a lack of knowledge or understanding of the rule. When I explained on the pitch to the Cork players what was happening they seem to go, 'Oh, okay'. And they were fine about it.
"When I was walking off the pitch John Cleary was giving out to me that he said he had seen the incident back and it was outside the penalty box, that it was never a penalty.
"I then explained the situation to him and I'm listening to him on the radio going home and he's saying it was never a goalscoring opportunity. So even he didn't understand what was going on.
"And it's a difficult one because players first of all weren't aware of the rule and second of all then people, pundits, media, managers didn't have a great understanding of the rule and the language of the goalscoring opportunity and what that actually constitutes. So that's why there was so much confusion about it."
Gough revealed the decision was backed up as the right one in a referees meeting on Wednesday night.
"It has been discussed at the highest level last night among the elite referees on the national panel, and there was a unanimous decision made that it was 100% the correct decision. And I only got to see it once. I got to see it in real time. And we have a situation where you know, people are viewing this back 10 and 15 times and still can't arrive at the correct decision."
Mick O'Grady's foul on Niall Scully in the Dublin-Kildare game in Kilkenny later that Saturday evening was also discussed but Seán Hurson's colleagues and administrators agreed that he was accurate not to award a penalty and issue a black card.
"There was a potential one in the Dublin game last weekend and I know Paul Flynn was calling for greater consistency. However, the Dublin one was not a pulldown so it couldn't be considered a black card. Therefore, the goalscoring opportunity, part of the rule doesn't come into play.
"We have a very good understanding as to where these fouls fit in the language of the rules. Yes, the foul was cynical and it prevented a goalscoring opportunity but no, it was not a black card foul, so therefore the application of that rule didn't come into play."
Speaking at SuperValu's launch of their "Wear With Pride" laces initiative for Pride 2023, Gough readily admits he has become a better referee since the GAA participated in Dublin Pride march in 2019 when John Horan was GAA president.
"I can remember sitting in the president's box after the All-Ireland final in 2019, and I was almost in tears explaining to him the sort of self-confidence that came from the self-acceptance and that self-acceptance coming from the GAA. That they had finally accepted me and were willing not only accept me but to publicly put me out there as someone we're very proud of.
Gough, who came out publicly in 2011, said: "I was allowed go on 'The Late Late Show'. For a referee to receive permission (to do that) – we would always have to receive permission to do media – and then to walk in Pride, that gave me a huge swelling of self-confidence.
"We often talk, particularly where I work in a school, that people say they want to bring their full selves to work. It should be no different on the football field. As a human being, I should be bringing my full self to my job as a referee. In 2019, that was the first time I was allowed do that. I definitely saw a big jump in the standard my refereeing that year."
*Produced in Donegal, rainbow laces will be available to purchase in SuperValu stores nationwide for the month of June, with proceeds going to support Belong To, LGBTQ+ Youth Ireland.
Gough pointing out that the Cork players and management were unaware of the actual rule.
On a broader point I think that the GAA could do far better in terms of explaining the rules to people - the fact that Paul Flynn on the Sunday Game was calling for consistency in the application of the rule when the rule was applied correctly in that Kildare Dublin game shows that the understanding/awareness of the rules is sadly lacking in a lot of quarters.
When they are prepping for the Sunday Game, which they do for a few hours apparently, would they not have made t their business to find out the intricacies of the rules if they were going to have it as a talking point ?
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?
Quote from: Brendan on June 09, 2023, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?
This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: Brendan on June 09, 2023, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?
This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!
Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 09, 2023, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: Brendan on June 09, 2023, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?
This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!
Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.
Is it a 'goal opportunity' wording? and if so how is wrong? There have been plenty of goals scored when someone is running into the square regardless off how many defenders there are..
And remember what who brought this about in the first place ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 09, 2023, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: Brendan on June 09, 2023, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?
This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!
Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.
Is it a 'goal opportunity' wording? and if so how is wrong? There have been plenty of goals scored when someone is running into the square regardless off how many defenders there are..
And remember what who brought this about in the first place ;)
[/quote
I believe its if the ref deems it to be a goal scoring opportunity.
Does that mean every time a forward is inside the 20m line they are brought down they automatically get a penalty. Seems strange as you can alway say a forward is attacking the goal anytime they are brought down.
Black card was brought in long before the Sean incident so not sure what you mean.
Has to be a black card offence for it to be a penalty inside the 21, otherwise if it's outside the square it's just a free. Which is a nonsense.
That's my understanding anyway
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 09, 2023, 09:43:51 AM
Gough saying on Parkinson's show that Niall Morgan's black card was for "aggressive body language". Is that a rule I assume ?
Yip;
Category II Being ordered off for a Cynical Behavior Infraction (in Football)
(i) Deliberately pulling down an opponent.
(ii) Deliberately tripping an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
(iii) Deliberately colliding with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
(iv) Threatening or using abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a team-mate.
(v) Remonstrating in an aggressive manner with a Match Official Fixed Penalty for first Infraction - the offender shall serve ten minutes in the Sin-Bin
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 09, 2023, 11:52:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 09, 2023, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: Brendan on June 09, 2023, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?
This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!
Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.
Is it a 'goal opportunity' wording? and if so how is wrong? There have been plenty of goals scored when someone is running into the square regardless off how many defenders there are..
And remember what who brought this about in the first place ;)
[/quote
I believe its if the ref deems it to be a goal scoring opportunity.
Does that mean every time a forward is inside the 20m line they are brought down they automatically get a penalty. Seems strange as you can alway say a forward is attacking the goal anytime they are brought down.
Black card was brought in long before the Sean incident so not sure what you mean.
When Sean Cavanagh pulled down Conor McManus in the 2013 All-Ireland Quarter Final, little did he know that he would change the landscape of the game. Cavanagh was lambasted for his cynicism by all from the media, with RTE pundit Joe Brolly taking particular offence from the action.
But the Tyrone star was not the sole perpetrator of cynical play in the GAA and we would also be a bit naive to think that deliberate pull downs and trips didn't exist in the era of the great teams of the past.
GAA congress knew it would have to act so it set about putting structure together that would punish cynical play and give the advantage to teams trying to play football. The black card was born with great intentions but has let the GAA public wholly dissatisfied with it's varied interpretation and implementation.
What year did the Black card come out? 2014?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 01:00:41 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 09, 2023, 11:52:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 09, 2023, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: Brendan on June 09, 2023, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?
This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!
Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.
Is it a 'goal opportunity' wording? and if so how is wrong? There have been plenty of goals scored when someone is running into the square regardless off how many defenders there are..
And remember what who brought this about in the first place ;)
[/quote
I believe its if the ref deems it to be a goal scoring opportunity.
Does that mean every time a forward is inside the 20m line they are brought down they automatically get a penalty. Seems strange as you can alway say a forward is attacking the goal anytime they are brought down.
Black card was brought in long before the Sean incident so not sure what you mean.
When Sean Cavanagh pulled down Conor McManus in the 2013 All-Ireland Quarter Final, little did he know that he would change the landscape of the game. Cavanagh was lambasted for his cynicism by all from the media, with RTE pundit Joe Brolly taking particular offence from the action.
But the Tyrone star was not the sole perpetrator of cynical play in the GAA and we would also be a bit naive to think that deliberate pull downs and trips didn't exist in the era of the great teams of the past.
GAA congress knew it would have to act so it set about putting structure together that would punish cynical play and give the advantage to teams trying to play football. The black card was born with great intentions but has let the GAA public wholly dissatisfied with it's varied interpretation and implementation.
What year did the Black card come out? 2014?
Some basic history here for you.
Black card introduced in jan 2013 for the 2014 season.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-propose-introduction-of-black-card-to-stamp-out-cynical-fouls/28955932.html
Sean pulled down was in Aug 2013 AFTER the black card was already agreed.
Some basic reading for you:
THE GAA will look to introduce 'black card' offences in a bid to stamp out some of the more cynical behaviour in Gaelic football for the 2014 season
Under the proposal, should a team pick up a fourth black card in a game, that player could not be replaced.
If approved by Congress, the proposals would apply from January 1, 2014.
This is from your article, it was passed because of Sean's cynical fouling that was highlighted and picked on by Brolly
As for that other claim of 'brought in long before the Sean incident' some stretch
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 03:19:38 PM
Some basic reading for you:
THE GAA will look to introduce 'black card' offences in a bid to stamp out some of the more cynical behaviour in Gaelic football for the 2014 season
Under the proposal, should a team pick up a fourth black card in a game, that player could not be replaced.
If approved by Congress, the proposals would apply from January 1, 2014.
This is from your article, it was passed because of Sean's cynical fouling that was highlighted and picked on by Brolly
As for that other claim of 'brought in long before the Sean incident' some stretch
The black card was proposed and discussed in Jan 2013. Before the Cavanagh tackle. It wasn't passed until 2014. But unless they have brilliant soothsaying abilities, the black card wasn't due to sC's tackle.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2023, 03:48:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 03:19:38 PM
Some basic reading for you:
THE GAA will look to introduce 'black card' offences in a bid to stamp out some of the more cynical behaviour in Gaelic football for the 2014 season
Under the proposal, should a team pick up a fourth black card in a game, that player could not be replaced.
If approved by Congress, the proposals would apply from January 1, 2014.
This is from your article, it was passed because of Sean's cynical fouling that was highlighted and picked on by Brolly
As for that other claim of 'brought in long before the Sean incident' some stretch
The black card was proposed and discussed in Jan 2013. Before the Cavanagh tackle. It wasn't passed until 2014. But unless they have brilliant soothsaying abilities, the black card wasn't due to sC's tackle.
Your Tyrone mate said the black card was BROUGHT in long before Sean C pulling people to the ground, It was PROPOSED NOT IMPLEMENTED until 2014 on the back of people discussing the highlighted tackle skills of Sean C
Plenty of things are proposed every year at Congress, 80% probably or more are not passed, the media jumped on this ( ;D ) and run with it, if yoy don't think Sean didn't help it then you are blind
I think he was just correcting you on this comment.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
And remember what who brought this about in the first place ;)
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2023, 03:55:19 PM
I think he was just correcting you on this comment.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
And remember what who brought this about in the first place ;)
He said it was brought in long before Sean, Sean brought the topic to the top table, that's been widely recognised. But let's not highlight the good Tyronies ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 04:13:31 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2023, 03:55:19 PM
I think he was just correcting you on this comment.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
And remember what who brought this about in the first place ;)
He said it was brought in long before Sean, Sean brought the topic to the top table, that's been widely recognised. But let's not highlight the good Tyronies ;D
Yeah you were both wrong.
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 09, 2023, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: Brendan on June 09, 2023, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/david-gough-i-then-have-to-go-and-listen-to-him-on-radio-1-changing-his-argument-i-found-that-very-difficult/a842123657.html
Was talking to someone the other night about the black card one, is that for all games now or just inter County? Assuming if it's being applied in championship then it isn't just being trialled like they normally do?
This rule has been in place at inter county level for a while now and has not been introduced at club level (I take it its the black card/goal opportunity one) but that doesn't stop the clampits supporters behind the fence, managers/coaches inside the fence and the players calling for it nearly every game!!
Gough is taking crap. How can it be a goal scoring opportunity if there are still 2 defenders in the way of the attacker.
Paudie Clifford was wide open in the centre.
As Gough explained, goal scoring opportunity means the team had a goalscoring opportunity, not necessarily the individual fouled.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 03:52:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2023, 03:48:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2023, 03:19:38 PM
Some basic reading for you:
THE GAA will look to introduce 'black card' offences in a bid to stamp out some of the more cynical behaviour in Gaelic football for the 2014 season
Under the proposal, should a team pick up a fourth black card in a game, that player could not be replaced.
If approved by Congress, the proposals would apply from January 1, 2014.
This is from your article, it was passed because of Sean's cynical fouling that was highlighted and picked on by Brolly
As for that other claim of 'brought in long before the Sean incident' some stretch
The black card was proposed and discussed in Jan 2013. Before the Cavanagh tackle. It wasn't passed until 2014. But unless they have brilliant soothsaying abilities, the black card wasn't due to sC's tackle.
Your Tyrone mate said the black card was BROUGHT in long before Sean C pulling people to the ground, It was PROPOSED NOT IMPLEMENTED until 2014 on the back of people discussing the highlighted tackle skills of Sean C
Plenty of things are proposed every year at Congress, 80% probably or more are not passed, the media jumped on this ( ;D ) and run with it, if yoy don't think Sean didn't help it then you are blind
Need I remind you that You said Sean was responsible for bringing it in. I highlighted that it was leady discussed and proposed 6 months before that tackle to try and stop cynical fouls. The way you were suggesting was it was brought in directly as a result of sean tackle.
Anyway it's in now and like most of the gaa rules it's applied inconsistently.
As I said before plenty of things are proposed at congress, not a lot are acted on, because I'd Sean wanting to straddle McManus it was rubber stamped.
You know the difference between proposed and passed?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2023, 12:31:19 PM
As I said before plenty of things are proposed at congress, not a lot are acted on, because I'd Sean wanting to straddle McManus it was rubber stamped.
You know the difference between proposed and passed?
You know the difference between Mar and Aug? Gaa PASSED the back card in mar 2013.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-pass-controversial-black-card-rule/29150028.html
Argument over you lose
I made a huge mistake reffing a B league game last night, namely implementing the rules.
Penalized 2 players in the early minutes for clearly throwing the hand-pass, one of which had put a lad through one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Also gave a couple frees out when lads went over on steps, causing a disallowed point in one case. Mayhem ensued. nobody cares about consistent application of the rules at the instant where it costs their team a score.
Quote from: Angus MacGyver on June 15, 2023, 04:07:22 PM
I made a huge mistake reffing a B league game last night, namely implementing the rules.
Penalized 2 players in the early minutes for clearly throwing the hand-pass, one of which had put a lad through one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Also gave a couple frees out when lads went over on steps, causing a disallowed point in one case. Mayhem ensued. nobody cares about consistent application of the rules at the instant where it costs their team a score.
Whatever made you think the rules were meant to be applied?
There are rules and then common sense.
Quote from: Angus MacGyver on June 15, 2023, 04:07:22 PM
I made a huge mistake reffing a B league game last night, namely implementing the rules.
Penalized 2 players in the early minutes for clearly throwing the hand-pass, one of which had put a lad through one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Also gave a couple frees out when lads went over on steps, causing a disallowed point in one case. Mayhem ensued. nobody cares about consistent application of the rules at the instant where it costs their team a score.
The amount of times you now see inter County players throwing the ball in games is unreal. Hardly ever pulled on it. It's a simple task to do I can't understand why they need to throw the fecking thing.
Quote from: Derryman forever on June 15, 2023, 05:56:54 PM
Quote from: Angus MacGyver on June 15, 2023, 04:07:22 PM
I made a huge mistake reffing a B league game last night, namely implementing the rules.
Penalized 2 players in the early minutes for clearly throwing the hand-pass, one of which had put a lad through one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Also gave a couple frees out when lads went over on steps, causing a disallowed point in one case. Mayhem ensued. nobody cares about consistent application of the rules at the instant where it costs their team a score.
Whatever made you think the rules were meant to be applied?
I think it was sunstroke. The expanding bald patch cant take it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 15, 2023, 06:11:26 PM
There are rules and then common sense.
How so? Just ignore the rule based on the circumstance?
Should a player be penalized for throwing the ball? Should a player be penalized for overcarrying? Or does it depend on other factors?
Common sense Rules
1 if a lad runs fast he can take as many steps as he like.
2 don't ever apply the steps Rule to a forward anywhere near the posts
3 don't pull up illegal handpasses especially on an attacking player
4 never yellow card a forward no matter how many cynical fouls he commits to stop counter attacks
5 allow man with ball to do whatever he likes especially to would be tacklers.
6 after a throw up ball always give a free out to the defending team.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 15, 2023, 09:37:26 PM
Common sense Rules
1 if a lad runs fast he can take as many steps as he like.
2 don't ever apply the steps Rule to a forward anywhere near the posts
3 don't pull up illegal handpasses especially on an attacking player
4 never yellow card a forward no matter how many cynical fouls he commits to stop counter attacks
5 allow man with ball to do whatever he likes especially to would be tacklers.
6 after a throw up ball always give a free out to the defending team.
Number 6 made me laugh because its 100% accurate.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 15, 2023, 09:37:26 PM
Common sense Rules
1 if a lad runs fast he can take as many steps as he like.
2 don't ever apply the steps Rule to a forward anywhere near the posts
3 don't pull up illegal handpasses especially on an attacking player
4 never yellow card a forward no matter how many cynical fouls he commits to stop counter attacks
5 allow man with ball to do whatever he likes especially to would be tacklers.
6 after a throw up ball always give a free out to the defending team.
Brilliant stuff
Quote from: Angus MacGyver on June 15, 2023, 08:39:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 15, 2023, 06:11:26 PM
There are rules and then common sense.
How so? Just ignore the rule based on the circumstance?
Should a player be penalized for throwing the ball? Should a player be penalized for overcarrying? Or does it depend on other factors?
Every foul should be penalised. You'll be the free takers dream ref, everyone loves a stop start game.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 15, 2023, 09:39:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 15, 2023, 09:37:26 PM
Common sense Rules
1 if a lad runs fast he can take as many steps as he like.
2 don't ever apply the steps Rule to a forward anywhere near the posts
3 don't pull up illegal handpasses especially on an attacking player
4 never yellow card a forward no matter how many cynical fouls he commits to stop counter attacks
5 allow man with ball to do whatever he likes especially to would be tacklers.
6 after a throw up ball always give a free out to the defending team.
Number 6 made me laugh because its 100% accurate.
I'd love to see the actual stats on number 6 - especially when it's a throw-ball for a kickout infringement.
On 5 "allow man with ball to do whatever he likes especially to would be tacklers" - there seems to be a significant percentage of players, refs and watchers who seem to think the rugby handoff rule applies to the man in possession of the football in GAA. It's absolutely baffling. Don't know where the notion came from.
7. Any free kick awarded within the 45 but outside the "D" may be actually kicked 10 yards closer to the "D"
Quote from: CK_Redhand on June 16, 2023, 09:48:19 AM
7. Any free kick awarded within the 45 but outside the "D" may be actually kicked 10 yards closer to the "D"
I think these rules only piss off the supporters of teams that its happening to but when their own players gain the same advantage they never complain ;D
Quote from: CK_Redhand on June 16, 2023, 09:48:19 AM
7. Any free kick awarded within the 45 but outside the "D" may be actually kicked 10 yards closer to the "D"
The hop ball rule for "wrong place" frees can't be applied to frees from the hand.
It's a total pandemic at this stage.
Personally I think frees should be overturned instead of a throw up in most scenarios, it serves as a much greater deterrent.
Need the white spray, for both for the kicker and the lads that don't know how far 13 meters is..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2023, 11:37:52 AM
Need the white spray, for both for the kicker and the lads that don't know how far 13 meters is..
I know that's partially in jest but it would be far more effective in Gaelic than soccer, any free inside the 45 should be marked with the spray unless it's quickly taken
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2023, 11:37:52 AM
Need the white spray, for both for the kicker and the lads that don't know how far 13 meters is..
It seemed like McQuillan really emphasised this to Walsh on Sunday ahead of that last free - he put him back to the spot when Walsh had stolen a healthy chunk inwards and then seemed to indicate that he'd be watching to ensure that he didn't go beyond the place where the foul happened.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 04, 2023, 03:03:57 PM
Mentioned it earlier on this thread but I feel genuine sorrow for those people who maintain that Gaelic Football is perfectly fine and the rules shouldn't change.
Taking enjoyment from football now involves a form of Stockholm syndrome.
I'm bored out of my wits here watching Mayo. Not even they can make it watchable when the opposition has no intent.
Hear Hear.
Despite what many on here seem to think, I'd argue that Gaelic football changes playing rules less frequently than many other field sports - there's no disgrace in it - it's simply a case of staying ahead of the coaches and tactical innovators. Coaches are
rightly focussed on winning above all else. They have a job to do, but equally administrators have a responsibility too - they need to keep the game attractive to watch and play. Triall new rules aimed at limiting the effectiveness of tactical innovations, it's not that big an ask.
Quote from: onefineday on June 23, 2023, 12:58:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2023, 11:37:52 AM
Need the white spray, for both for the kicker and the lads that don't know how far 13 meters is..
It seemed like McQuillan really emphasised this to Walsh on Sunday ahead of that last free - he put him back to the spot when Walsh had stolen a healthy chunk inwards and then seemed to indicate that he'd be watching to ensure that he didn't go beyond the place where the foul happened.
Yeah in fairness watching it you could see Forker marking the spot and making sure that McQuillan clown knew where the free was from. Surprised Ego Joe didnt move it up more!
In fairness there was never a player to steal more yards on frees than Oisin McConville so Armagh are due some bad karma there!
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2023, 11:11:52 AM
In fairness there was never a player to steal more yards on frees than Oisin McConville so Armagh are due some bad karma there!
him and Canavan were the masters lol
I've no problem giving yards to both, so can be no complaints on either side, though each opposing team doesn't like it when it's against them but love it when they get it. Strange lol
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2023, 11:11:52 AM
In fairness there was never a player to steal more yards on frees than Oisin McConville so Armagh are due some bad karma there!
Niall toner for Derry takes some beating.
Doesn't actually cross the line of the foul, he walks about 10m bck. Needs all the run up, the size of him, don't understand why Loughlin doest take them like last year.
The best way to stop it is to stop taking the frees from the hand. There's a simple rule change that would stop people whinging
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2023, 10:20:12 AM
The best way to stop it is to stop taking the frees from the hand. There's a simple rule change that would stop people whinging
Much more accurate off the ground anyway as we discussed on here earlier this year.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2023, 10:20:12 AM
The best way to stop it is to stop taking the frees from the hand. There's a simple rule change that would stop people whinging
Laois lad claimed a mark inside the Down 45 yesterday. From where he caught it to where he actually kicked it there was about a 5 metre difference.
Time for the shaving foam to be brought out.
Former Clare manager Colm Collins believes the offensive mark rule should be struck from the GAA rule book.
"That offensive mark, I'd have it thrown into the middle of the Atlantic - it's an awful rule,"
"It doesn't enhance the game. It makes the game worse. Instead of a fella coming down and offloading - a la the Bomber in his day giving it to a runner coming at 90 miles per hour - now they're standing up. The whole thing slows down while they try a kick at goal.
"The mark in midfield, I would be for that because I think too often really good fielders would go up, catch the ball and be crowded out when they come down.
"That offensive mark should go as quick as lightning - it's a terrible rule." "The most annoying thing in football is the constant messing with silly rules that make no difference. There's a whole load of rubbish coming in about the kickout - oh God almighty,"
"The only thing I would like to change is that one where if you take the ball past midfield, you cannot go back - you've got to use it. The result would be you have to use it. This kicking back 40 yards and recycling, it should eliminate that, and it would make a difference to the game.
"Everybody that watches football probably has their own little things that they'd like to change to make it more attractive to watch. I'd watch football all day long and I can't understand anybody criticising the fare at all.
"From a football point of view, as pundits, we're very quick to criticise the game. The hurling fraternity are a lot more protective of their sport and are very slow to criticise anything that goes on there. A lot of the time, we're putting in the boot where there's no need to put in the boot."
We ain't criticising hurling because it's grand and the hurling fraternity (not footballers looking in and complaining) are pleased with how it's ref'd and rule's haven't needed to be changed because it's or full of coaches looking to ruin it
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 28, 2023, 11:26:48 PM
"The only thing I would like to change is that one where if you take the ball past midfield, you cannot go back - you've got to use it. The result would be you have to use it. This kicking back 40 yards and recycling, it should eliminate that, and it would make a difference to the game.
Heat hear colm, it's gathering momentum! We just have to convince the refs that it won't be too hard for them to police.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 28, 2023, 11:52:44 PM
We ain't criticising hurling because it's grand and the hurling fraternity (not footballers looking in and complaining) are pleased with how it's ref'd and rule's haven't needed to be changed because it's or full of coaches looking to ruin it
Rules don't matter in Hurley stuff because they ignore them anyway.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 29, 2023, 08:50:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 28, 2023, 11:52:44 PM
We ain't criticising hurling because it's grand and the hurling fraternity (not footballers looking in and complaining) are pleased with how it's ref'd and rule's haven't needed to be changed because it's or full of coaches looking to ruin it
Rules don't matter in Hurley stuff because they ignore them anyway.
Like I said, those that are complaining are bog ball enthusiasts who love the sideways 15 men behind the ball counter attacking cynical fouling mouthing choke holding off the ball hitting too many rules game that used to be called Gaelic Football
If a player is on one side of the field , 1 yard outside the 50 yard line, and kicks it across the field , to a teammate who catches it 1 yard inside the 50 , will a mark be given?
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 29, 2023, 09:34:44 AM
If a player is on one side of the field , 1 yard outside the 50 yard line, and kicks it across the field , to a teammate who catches it 1 yard inside the 50 , will a mark be given?
Yes.
Quote from: Lucifer on June 29, 2023, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 29, 2023, 09:34:44 AM
If a player is on one side of the field , 1 yard outside the 50 yard line, and kicks it across the field , to a teammate who catches it 1 yard inside the 50 , will a mark be given?
Yes.
Ball needs to travel 20 meters I think ;D in distance not in a straight line
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2023, 10:57:43 AM
Quote from: Lucifer on June 29, 2023, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 29, 2023, 09:34:44 AM
If a player is on one side of the field , 1 yard outside the 50 yard line, and kicks it across the field , to a teammate who catches it 1 yard inside the 50 , will a mark be given?
Yes.
Ball needs to travel 20 meters I think ;D in distance not in a straight line
So two players could be standing one metre apart, player one kicks the ball 10 metres into the air and player two could mark it.
Not a mark as ball must travel 20m -unless an Antrim Hurley ref was doing a football match ;D
Has anyone seen the 15 second rule being enforced?
Most lads taking a shot at the posts all seem to exceed this.
Initially they created a 5 second rule for the forward mark, whilst the midfield mark was 15 seconds. Both of these were policed initially, to some extent. Then they reverted to 15 seconds for both and duly ignored them. In all honesty it isn't a big issue, though.
A part of the delay in taking the forward mark is defenders not standing out of the way. So by the time the ref moves them and signals the free to be taken, the forward does their routine, well over 15 seconds have passed. Solution - warning followed by yellow for defenders blocking free.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on June 29, 2023, 12:28:20 PM
A part of the delay in taking the forward mark is defenders not standing out of the way. So by the time the ref moves them and signals the free to be taken, the forward does their routine, well over 15 seconds have passed. Solution - warning followed by yellow for defenders blocking free.
Opposing players are now counting the seconds during the forward 'mark' I tell them I'll start counting when you stop or when they are back 13 meters, or move it forward for speech play during a free ;)
The best is when players are complaining about a free the other team take their free quickly and it ends up in the net!!
Quote from: CK_Redhand on June 29, 2023, 12:28:20 PM
A part of the delay in taking the forward mark is defenders not standing out of the way. So by the time the ref moves them and signals the free to be taken, the forward does their routine, well over 15 seconds have passed. Solution - warning followed by yellow for defenders blocking free.
Or do it like AFL, defender stands on the site of the mark and the attacker can kick it from any point further from the goals than said mark. It'll stop the forwards stealing any yards with a long run up too.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 29, 2023, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on June 29, 2023, 12:28:20 PM
A part of the delay in taking the forward mark is defenders not standing out of the way. So by the time the ref moves them and signals the free to be taken, the forward does their routine, well over 15 seconds have passed. Solution - warning followed by yellow for defenders blocking free.
Or do it like AFL, defender stands on the site of the mark and the attacker can kick it from any point further from the goals than said mark. It'll stop the forwards stealing any yards with a long run up too.
Is the defender 13 meters back from where the free is given? so a 21 free would need to be taken back 13 meters from that area? Would that not just encourage teams to foul around the 30 area or 45?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2023, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 29, 2023, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on June 29, 2023, 12:28:20 PM
A part of the delay in taking the forward mark is defenders not standing out of the way. So by the time the ref moves them and signals the free to be taken, the forward does their routine, well over 15 seconds have passed. Solution - warning followed by yellow for defenders blocking free.
Or do it like AFL, defender stands on the site of the mark and the attacker can kick it from any point further from the goals than said mark. It'll stop the forwards stealing any yards with a long run up too.
Is the defender 13 meters back from where the free is given? so a 21 free would need to be taken back 13 meters from that area? Would that not just encourage teams to foul around the 30 area or 45?
It's a good idea for the mark. Not for normal frees
Quote from: Hound on June 29, 2023, 01:16:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2023, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 29, 2023, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on June 29, 2023, 12:28:20 PM
A part of the delay in taking the forward mark is defenders not standing out of the way. So by the time the ref moves them and signals the free to be taken, the forward does their routine, well over 15 seconds have passed. Solution - warning followed by yellow for defenders blocking free.
Or do it like AFL, defender stands on the site of the mark and the attacker can kick it from any point further from the goals than said mark. It'll stop the forwards stealing any yards with a long run up too.
Is the defender 13 meters back from where the free is given? so a 21 free would need to be taken back 13 meters from that area? Would that not just encourage teams to foul around the 30 area or 45?
It's a good idea for the mark. Not for normal frees
There would be no advantage, collecting a mark just inside the 45 forces you to take the mark from the halfway line!
This is where the practicalities of having these ideas on rule changes are not adaptable for the actual game
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2023, 01:25:05 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 29, 2023, 01:16:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2023, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 29, 2023, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on June 29, 2023, 12:28:20 PM
A part of the delay in taking the forward mark is defenders not standing out of the way. So by the time the ref moves them and signals the free to be taken, the forward does their routine, well over 15 seconds have passed. Solution - warning followed by yellow for defenders blocking free.
Or do it like AFL, defender stands on the site of the mark and the attacker can kick it from any point further from the goals than said mark. It'll stop the forwards stealing any yards with a long run up too.
Is the defender 13 meters back from where the free is given? so a 21 free would need to be taken back 13 meters from that area? Would that not just encourage teams to foul around the 30 area or 45?
It's a good idea for the mark. Not for normal frees
There would be no advantage, collecting a mark just inside the 45 forces you to take the mark from the halfway line!
This is where the practicalities of having these ideas on rule changes are not adaptable for the actual game
Very rare that someone accepts a mark just inside the 45.
Most people think the reward for a forward mark is too much, especially chest high catches. This would allow some reward but not as easy as previous, as easier for refs to police if the defender stands where the mark was taken.
I know you'll disagree , so happy to leave it there
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 29, 2023, 07:53:25 PM
Surely then the defender will start trying to steal yards.
The simple solution is the shaving foam. If the kicker crosses it he's done. That's not difficult.
Would love to way into championship games this year with the spray lol
I'd be happy to get rid of the forward mark, but there might be an argument for kicker being outside 45 and recipient being inside the 20 - at least it's likely to be an actual contest give the length of time the ball is in flight and leaves it open to see catches like Clifford's in AIF or feely's a few weeks ago.
Was that 45/20 thing not the original proposal?
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2023, 09:37:38 AM
Was that 45/20 thing not the original proposal?
Near impossible for the ref to have a good view of both lines when the kick and catch takes place. Asking for a lot of wrong calls. Time to remove the forward mark and a good few other rules that only add confusion 5o the game with little benefit
I see some counties have gotten themselves in a bit of bother in deciding the rankings when 3 teams are on equal points in a round robin based championship;
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sports/football/appeal-against-meath-s-score-difference-rule-faces-fresh-scrutiny/ar-AA1ghZRb?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=e625fc709b2f4f3fa8dea3e06a3148ac&ei=10 (https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sports/football/appeal-against-meath-s-score-difference-rule-faces-fresh-scrutiny/ar-AA1ghZRb?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=e625fc709b2f4f3fa8dea3e06a3148ac&ei=10)
Appeal against Meath's score difference rule faces fresh scrutiny
The application of which score difference mechanism should be used to determine which team finishes higher when three or more are tied on the same points in a championship or league division group faces fresh scrutiny in two provinces.
Meath County Board is taking a case to the Central Appeals Committee challenging a Leinster Council decision to order a refixture after Na Fianna challenged the mechanism Meath used to determine the second-placed team in their four-team SFC group.
The group was won by Dunshaughlin on six points with three other teams tied on two points, but Donaghmore-Ashbourne were declared second on the basis of score difference superiority that included games involving all four teams in the group. That was consistent with what was in Meath's bye-laws.
But Leinster hearings found "ambiguity" in the application and recommended that Donaghmore-Ashbourne and Na Fianna should play off to see who advances to quarter-finals or drops into a relegation play-off.
Na Fianna argued that the rule passed at Congress in February, put forward by Tipperary club Burgess, should apply instead whereby score difference calculated from the games between the tied teams only should apply which put them ahead of Donaghmore-Ashbourne.
This conflict is also at the centre of Sixmilebridge's case with a Munster hearings committee, after their exit from the Clare SHC.
As a matter of interest what do the various other counties do in this regard?
Quote from: johnnycool on September 06, 2023, 07:56:48 AM
I see some counties have gotten themselves in a bit of bother in deciding the rankings when 3 teams are on equal points in a round robin based championship;
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sports/football/appeal-against-meath-s-score-difference-rule-faces-fresh-scrutiny/ar-AA1ghZRb?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=e625fc709b2f4f3fa8dea3e06a3148ac&ei=10 (https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sports/football/appeal-against-meath-s-score-difference-rule-faces-fresh-scrutiny/ar-AA1ghZRb?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=e625fc709b2f4f3fa8dea3e06a3148ac&ei=10)
Appeal against Meath's score difference rule faces fresh scrutiny
The application of which score difference mechanism should be used to determine which team finishes higher when three or more are tied on the same points in a championship or league division group faces fresh scrutiny in two provinces.
Meath County Board is taking a case to the Central Appeals Committee challenging a Leinster Council decision to order a refixture after Na Fianna challenged the mechanism Meath used to determine the second-placed team in their four-team SFC group.
The group was won by Dunshaughlin on six points with three other teams tied on two points, but Donaghmore-Ashbourne were declared second on the basis of score difference superiority that included games involving all four teams in the group. That was consistent with what was in Meath's bye-laws.
But Leinster hearings found "ambiguity" in the application and recommended that Donaghmore-Ashbourne and Na Fianna should play off to see who advances to quarter-finals or drops into a relegation play-off.
Na Fianna argued that the rule passed at Congress in February, put forward by Tipperary club Burgess, should apply instead whereby score difference calculated from the games between the tied teams only should apply which put them ahead of Donaghmore-Ashbourne.
This conflict is also at the centre of Sixmilebridge's case with a Munster hearings committee, after their exit from the Clare SHC.
As a matter of interest what do the various other counties do in this regard?
Cavan Junior Champiosnhip is some mess they are not using scoring difference and 4 teams are tied in 6th, 7th 8th and 9th.
They put all the teams in a hat and the first two out are playing off for 6th place. The other two play off for 7th place.
The two defetated teams are then playing off for 8th with and the loser out of the championship.
The prize for the teams finishing 7th and 8th is to play Arva and Knockbride who are two Division 1 teams which is another conversation ::)
Both these teams finished joint top and they tossed a coin to see who would take spot 1 and 2.
So in short positions were sorted by coin toss and by drawing names out of a hat !!
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-to-begin-consultation-with-leading-figures-to-explore-football-trends/a2052142375.html
Quote from: Rossfan on September 13, 2023, 07:07:33 PM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-to-begin-consultation-with-leading-figures-to-explore-football-trends/a2052142375.html
Wouldn't trust some of those mentioned to come up with sensible solutions.
The poor Freshers in College this season are being subjected to the stupid rules where all kickouts have to clear the 45 and no sidelines can go backwards etc. Will make a right horlix of a lot of games.
Anyone able to answer this one?
Guy gets a straight red in a county final in a lower grade - intermediate for example.
Does he serve the one match suspension in this year's provincial championship (a different competition?) or the first round of next year's senior championship?
Quote from: The PRO on October 19, 2023, 11:51:41 AMAnyone able to answer this one?
Guy gets a straight red in a county final in a lower grade - intermediate for example.
Does he serve the one match suspension in this year's provincial championship (a different competition?) or the first round of next year's senior championship?
Have direct experience of this, although there wasn't a provisional competition to follow
One of our players got a red card at the end of a championship match. The next championship match, the next season, was at a different grade, and he was able to play.
So unless it carries over into the provincials, which at a guess I don't think does, then the player would be available for the next championship match.
Probably a hole that needs closed as no suspension served
Quote from: The PRO on October 19, 2023, 11:51:41 AMAnyone able to answer this one?
Guy gets a straight red in a county final in a lower grade - intermediate for example.
Does he serve the one match suspension in this year's provincial championship (a different competition?) or the first round of next year's senior championship?
This goes all the way back to Mark Vaughan getting sent off in a Leinster semi final in 2006 maybe (which was lost) and then playing for Kilmacud the following year v Brigids in opening round of Dublin Championship (I believe they appealed that it was a different competition and thus he was allowed to play.) I tried to google there but given there was so much back and forth it's hard to find the chronology of events (Brigids appealed successfully initially I think.) The rational outcome would be that they are all regarded as the same competition (or a continuation of the same, as such.) However I can't be 100% sure. I'd definitely side with the player being suspended for the provincial game, they're bound to have cleared that up, surely, maybe, possibly.
Quote from: smort on October 19, 2023, 12:03:58 PMQuote from: The PRO on October 19, 2023, 11:51:41 AMAnyone able to answer this one?
Guy gets a straight red in a county final in a lower grade - intermediate for example.
Does he serve the one match suspension in this year's provincial championship (a different competition?) or the first round of next year's senior championship?
Have direct experience of this, although there wasn't a provisional competition to follow
One of our players got a red card at the end of a championship match. The next championship match, the next season, was at a different grade, and he was able to play.
So unless it carries over into the provincials, which at a guess I don't think does, then the player would be available for the next championship match.
Probably a hole that needs closed as no suspension served
Was this recently ?
Reason I ask is I have a notion that the rules in relation to this were tightened up/changed a few years back.
Not 100% though - it might only have been a proposal/discussion about changing this.
The fact we don't know for sure and the fact that it maybe doesn't, perfectly encapsulates all that is wrong with the GAAs disciplinary system.
The Stewartstown players who received straight reds in the All-Ireland Final v Fossa were able to play in the Tyrone Intermediate 1st Round. Same applied to Paudie Clifford who played in Fossa's 1st game in the Kerry Intermediate Championship. I believe those suspensions don't apply until the All-Ireland series which might be a problem for Fossa should they make it that far.
The red card applies to the provincial championship as it is deemed an extension of the competition. So player is free to play the next year.
Quote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 04:51:58 PMThe Stewartstown players who received straight reds in the All-Ireland Final v Fossa were able to play in the Tyrone Intermediate 1st Round. Same applied to Paudie Clifford who played in Fossa's 1st game in the Kerry Intermediate Championship. I believe those suspensions don't apply until the All-Ireland series which might be a problem for Fossa should they make it that far.
What stage are Fossa at in Kerry? If they win Kerry they'll likely get through Munster. Would be some achievement to win Kerry intermediate after winning a junior last year
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 06:54:02 PMQuote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 04:51:58 PMThe Stewartstown players who received straight reds in the All-Ireland Final v Fossa were able to play in the Tyrone Intermediate 1st Round. Same applied to Paudie Clifford who played in Fossa's 1st game in the Kerry Intermediate Championship. I believe those suspensions don't apply until the All-Ireland series which might be a problem for Fossa should they make it that far.
What stage are Fossa at in Kerry? If they win Kerry they'll likely get through Munster. Would be some achievement to win Kerry intermediate after winning a junior last year
They're in the Final against Milltown/Castlemaine. Winners would be favourites for Munster alright.
Quote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 07:28:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 06:54:02 PMQuote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 04:51:58 PMThe Stewartstown players who received straight reds in the All-Ireland Final v Fossa were able to play in the Tyrone Intermediate 1st Round. Same applied to Paudie Clifford who played in Fossa's 1st game in the Kerry Intermediate Championship. I believe those suspensions don't apply until the All-Ireland series which might be a problem for Fossa should they make it that far.
What stage are Fossa at in Kerry? If they win Kerry they'll likely get through Munster. Would be some achievement to win Kerry intermediate after winning a junior last year
They're in the Final against Milltown/Castlemaine. Winners would be favourites for Munster alright.
Assume Fossa are fairly down the divisions in the league in Kerry if it's played without the county boys? Serious going to make an intermediate final.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 10:44:00 AMQuote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 07:28:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 06:54:02 PMQuote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 04:51:58 PMThe Stewartstown players who received straight reds in the All-Ireland Final v Fossa were able to play in the Tyrone Intermediate 1st Round. Same applied to Paudie Clifford who played in Fossa's 1st game in the Kerry Intermediate Championship. I believe those suspensions don't apply until the All-Ireland series which might be a problem for Fossa should they make it that far.
What stage are Fossa at in Kerry? If they win Kerry they'll likely get through Munster. Would be some achievement to win Kerry intermediate after winning a junior last year
They're in the Final against Milltown/Castlemaine. Winners would be favourites for Munster alright.
Assume Fossa are fairly down the divisions in the league in Kerry if it's played without the county boys? Serious going to make an intermediate final.
They're Division 3, their opponents are Division 1.
Have the new kickout rule/ rule not allowed to kick free kicks, marks, sidelines backwards been trialled as yet? Any feedback on how it is working?
Quote from: statto on October 20, 2023, 03:29:17 PMHave the new kickout rule/ rule not allowed to kick free kicks, marks, sidelines backwards been trialled as yet? Any feedback on how it is working?
Was doing a college game the other night but its only the first teams at college which are trialing it. So never bothered staying after I did my game..
I'd say it will be a nightmare. What if the kicker can't kick the ball past the 45? In strong winds I've seen the ball not reach past the D!! or if you kick the ball forward and it tails off backwards before being picked up, is that a free?
Ah, sounds like a load a shite1
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 03:42:31 PMQuote from: statto on October 20, 2023, 03:29:17 PMHave the new kickout rule/ rule not allowed to kick free kicks, marks, sidelines backwards been trialled as yet? Any feedback on how it is working?
Was doing a college game the other night but its only the first teams at college which are trialing it. So never bothered staying after I did my game..
I'd say it will be a nightmare. What if the kicker can't kick the ball past the 45? In strong winds I've seen the ball not reach past the D!! or if you kick the ball forward and it tails off backwards before being picked up, is that a free?
Ah, sounds like a load a shite1
That was one of the queries that I was thinking of. Wouldn't be too much fun in winter football with it blowing a gale referee would get sick of throwing ball up. If they were going to trial it would have thought been across the board so highly unlikely to be a runner.
Quote from: statto on October 20, 2023, 03:51:10 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 03:42:31 PMQuote from: statto on October 20, 2023, 03:29:17 PMHave the new kickout rule/ rule not allowed to kick free kicks, marks, sidelines backwards been trialled as yet? Any feedback on how it is working?
Was doing a college game the other night but its only the first teams at college which are trialing it. So never bothered staying after I did my game..
I'd say it will be a nightmare. What if the kicker can't kick the ball past the 45? In strong winds I've seen the ball not reach past the D!! or if you kick the ball forward and it tails off backwards before being picked up, is that a free?
Ah, sounds like a load a shite1
That was one of the queries that I was thinking of. Wouldn't be too much fun in winter football with it blowing a gale referee would get sick of throwing ball up. If they were going to trial it would have thought been across the board so highly unlikely to be a runner.
On that, the ref 'apparently' can use his own discretion lol, been doing that for years, it never ends well ;D
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 10:44:00 AMQuote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 07:28:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 06:54:02 PMQuote from: clarshack on October 19, 2023, 04:51:58 PMThe Stewartstown players who received straight reds in the All-Ireland Final v Fossa were able to play in the Tyrone Intermediate 1st Round. Same applied to Paudie Clifford who played in Fossa's 1st game in the Kerry Intermediate Championship. I believe those suspensions don't apply until the All-Ireland series which might be a problem for Fossa should they make it that far.
What stage are Fossa at in Kerry? If they win Kerry they'll likely get through Munster. Would be some achievement to win Kerry intermediate after winning a junior last year
They're in the Final against Milltown/Castlemaine. Winners would be favourites for Munster alright.
Assume Fossa are fairly down the divisions in the league in Kerry if it's played without the county boys? Serious going to make an intermediate final.
They will play in Division 2 next year.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/1104/1414667-gough-var-not-the-solution-for-gaa/
Leading inter-county referee David Gough has urged caution against any future introduction of a TMO or video assistant into Gaelic games.
Speaking on RTÉ Radio 1's Saturday Sport, the Meath man said that his position has evolved on the issue in recent times, offering up the recent Rugby World Cup final between South Africa and New Zealand as a tale of caution.
On X, formerly known as Twitter, Gough said that retiring referee Wayne Barnes was "abdicating his responsibility" with some key decisions in the match, including Sam Cane's upgraded red card, being made in the TMO bunker rather than by the English official on the pitch.
Gough admitted that in the past that he would have welcomed more technological assistance, but said that his mind has been changing.
"I have said in the past that I would have [welcomed assistance] but having watched what's happening now in soccer and the very fine margins they're looking at in relation to offside, we're talking millimetres here, it's going to come down at some point to maybe not a serious infraction like a red-card infraction, but something simple like steps, which is very hard for us to police.
"Steps happen every four to five seconds and it starts again for four to five seconds and it starts again. How stringent do you want that policed?
"If we do bring in a VAR or TMO, where does it stop?"
The introduction of VAR has proven controversial
Gough also hit out at the lack of consultation between officials and rule-makers when it comes to the laws of Gaelic football.
A meeting of the GAA's Ard Chomhairle at Croke Park on Saturday considered proposals from the standing committee on playing rules, and from the sliotar and hurley regulation workgroup, but Gough said that the document containing proposed rule changes was only disclosed to referees on Friday.
Gough also said that referees had been promised a say in rule changes in football, but such opportunities were ultimately not being afforded to them.
"The elite referees panel have not met the standing committee on playing rules," said Gough.
"They have been in position now for almost six years, some of them, we've never met them.
"When we met Tom Ryan [GAA Ard Stiúrthóir] in June of 2022 we were promised that there would be no introduction of new rules without meaningful consultation with the elite referees panel.
"We now have two incidents in the past year where referees have not been consulted and rules have been tried to be brought in without fully consulting with the people that are going to be implementing them."
I see there is a motion (that should eventually get over the line) that in Championship, if a game goes into extra time, if a team has a player sent off, the team won't be able to start the game with 15 in that period, yellow cards which were scrubbed will follow you into extra time also.
Think its a good thing
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2024, 11:54:37 AMI see there is a motion (that should eventually get over the line) that in Championship, if a game goes into extra time, if a team has a player sent off, the team won't be able to start the game with 15 in that period, yellow cards which were scrubbed will follow you into extra time also.
Think its a good thing
About time, the 2nd daftest rule in the book 'a new game'. Daftest being the advanced Mark.
Quote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2024, 12:25:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2024, 11:54:37 AMI see there is a motion (that should eventually get over the line) that in Championship, if a game goes into extra time, if a team has a player sent off, the team won't be able to start the game with 15 in that period, yellow cards which were scrubbed will follow you into extra time also.
Think its a good thing
About time, the 2nd daftest rule in the book 'a new game'. Daftest being the advanced Mark.
agreed, sooner advance mark goes the better, brought in to try and make the game more entertaining (never was gonna happen) it has slowed the game down even more and taken a lot of inside flair out of it
Was thinking about this for a rule change. Game to restart after a goal with a throw up in MF. Players all return to their respective positions.
Why? Well it will give a bit more of a emphasis on the goal, opportunity to celebrate if you like but here's where I think it would really benefit the game.. at underage. The amount of times I see U12, U14 and even U16 teams concede another goal straight after the first. They just can't get the ball out and they kick it to the opposition who bag another. Restarting in MF give the team who concede time to get out again and reorganise.
If you want to go full on mad man make a goal worth 4 points.
Quote from: trailer on January 30, 2024, 12:43:44 PMWas thinking about this for a rule change. Game to restart after a goal with a throw up in MF. Players all return to their respective positions.
Why? Well it will give a bit more of a emphasis on the goal, opportunity to celebrate if you like but here's where I think it would really benefit the game.. at underage. The amount of times I see U12, U14 and even U16 teams concede another goal straight after the first. They just can't get the ball out and they kick it to the opposition who bag another. Restarting in MF give the team who concede time to get out again and reorganise.
If you want to go full on mad man make a goal worth 4 points.
You'll see teams milking it then, especially if that goal puts them ahead with a few minutes left. Soccer style goal celebrations two minutes long , players going down with sudden injuries in opponents half so they have to delay the throw in.
You score a goal now = kick put from opposition 20m.
Score a goal if that was passed = throw in 50m nearer the scoring teams goal! Punishment for scoring a goal!
How about anyone on a yellow or who got a black in normal time can't play in the extra time?
Quote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2024, 01:39:37 PMYou score a goal now = kick put from opposition 20m.
Score a goal if that was passed = throw in 50m nearer the scoring teams goal! Punishment for scoring a goal!
How about anyone on a yellow or who got a black in normal time can't play in the extra time?
Are you looking to add in stupid rules ?
Quote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2024, 01:39:37 PMYou score a goal now = kick put from opposition 20m.
Score a goal if that was passed = throw in 50m nearer the scoring teams goal! Punishment for scoring a goal!
How about anyone on a yellow or who got a black in normal time can't play in the extra time?
At senior level the keeper will either go short or boot it 60m. With a throw up you have a far better chance of gaining possession I would argue.
Although I have to say I have zero appetite myself for anymore rule changes other than to remove the offensive / defensive mark .
I'd love the idea of an oval Pitch.
13 a side football.
Quote from: trailer on January 30, 2024, 12:43:44 PMWas thinking about this for a rule change. Game to restart after a goal with a throw up in MF. Players all return to their respective positions.
Why? Well it will give a bit more of a emphasis on the goal, opportunity to celebrate if you like but here's where I think it would really benefit the game.. at underage. The amount of times I see U12, U14 and even U16 teams concede another goal straight after the first. They just can't get the ball out and they kick it to the opposition who bag another. Restarting in MF give the team who concede time to get out again and reorganise.
If you want to go full on mad man make a goal worth 4 points.
Yeah I actually like that idea especially as you mention the younger ages you'll see that thing happen at the lower levels because often theres a lad playing up the age group to make up numbers and ends up in nets.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 30, 2024, 12:29:12 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2024, 12:25:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2024, 11:54:37 AMI see there is a motion (that should eventually get over the line) that in Championship, if a game goes into extra time, if a team has a player sent off, the team won't be able to start the game with 15 in that period, yellow cards which were scrubbed will follow you into extra time also.
Think its a good thing
About time, the 2nd daftest rule in the book 'a new game'. Daftest being the advanced Mark.
agreed, sooner advance mark goes the better, brought in to try and make the game more entertaining (never was gonna happen) it has slowed the game down even more and taken a lot of inside flair out of it
Any mention of even discussing the advance mark at congress. Players, managers and supporters don't like it however the suits that introduced it are too stubborn to scrap it now.
Advanced mark and black card 2 rules I can't stand.
Quote from: Cavan19 on January 30, 2024, 03:39:33 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2024, 01:39:37 PMYou score a goal now = kick put from opposition 20m.
Score a goal if that was passed = throw in 50m nearer the scoring teams goal! Punishment for scoring a goal!
How about anyone on a yellow or who got a black in normal time can't play in the extra time?
Are you looking to add in stupid rules ?
I thought I read somewhere that there was a push to ensure reds picked up in normal time would carry through to extra time, no more "it's a new game so reds are cancelled but yellows and blacks carry through"
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2024, 11:54:37 AMI see there is a motion (that should eventually get over the line) that in Championship, if a game goes into extra time, if a team has a player sent off, the team won't be able to start the game with 15 in that period, yellow cards which were scrubbed will follow you into extra time also.
Think its a good thing
Quote from: trailer on January 30, 2024, 04:33:48 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2024, 01:39:37 PMYou score a goal now = kick put from opposition 20m.
Score a goal if that was passed = throw in 50m nearer the scoring teams goal! Punishment for scoring a goal!
How about anyone on a yellow or who got a black in normal time can't play in the extra time?
At senior level the keeper will either go short or boot it 60m. With a throw up you have a far better chance of gaining possession I would argue.
Although I have to say I have zero appetite myself for anymore rule changes other than to remove the offensive / defensive mark .
With the latest square ball controversy providing more evidence that it's virtually impossible to police in real time and bloody tricky in slow mo replays, is it time to get rid of it?
What purpose does it serve in the modern game?
Presume the point of it was to stop a big lad standing on the keeper the whole time, waiting for the high ball in - sorta the opposite of the advance mark which is designed to encourage exactly that ;D
Is it needed and if something is needed, what would be a better alternative, that could actually be called accurately by refs or umpires?
No forward allowed in the small rectangle at all?
Square ball is difficult, and should only be given when the referee is close to the play and confident of the call, Calling for a square ball on the 45 is very difficult to judge, so if its not blatant (like the FF ) standing on the keepers toes then play on!
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2024, 08:43:59 AMNo forward allowed in the small rectangle at all?
Thought about that before as well. Easy regulated for the refs. But think it would take away from some of those entertaining goal mouth tussles as well. A last minute punched goal, goalie claims the ball above the FF or vice versa. Might lose as much as you gain.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2024, 10:04:26 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2024, 08:43:59 AMNo forward allowed in the small rectangle at all?
Thought about that before as well. Easy regulated for the refs. But think it would take away from some of those entertaining goal mouth tussles as well. A last minute punched goal, goalie claims the ball above the FF or vice versa. Might lose as much as you gain.
I wouldn't be worried about that, so much as the definition and implementation ie if the forward lands in the square after punching the ball, is that a foul? And if a man scores from a punch outside the square, but he has a teammate wandered into the square, would it count? If so, umpires have their work cut out policing everything. If not, then it's really not a whole pile different to the current scenario.
Abolish the small rectangle?
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2024, 10:26:44 AMAbolish the small rectangle?
I take it you've never played goals lol
Quote from: thewobbler on February 01, 2024, 10:41:30 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2024, 10:26:44 AMAbolish the small rectangle?
I take it you've never played goals lol
If they want to wander round being an outfield player they should lose their privilege area ;D
I agree that square ball serves very little purpose as it is now, I don't really see the benefit in maintaining it. Whilst we are re-drawing the lines, could I also suggest that the penalty area is brought out to the '21 and made about 5 yards wider on either side also. Relative to the size of the pitch the current penalty area is very small and so many goal chances are lost to minor fouls 14/15 yards from goal.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2024, 10:54:30 AMQuote from: thewobbler on February 01, 2024, 10:41:30 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 01, 2024, 10:26:44 AMAbolish the small rectangle?
I take it you've never played goals lol
If they want to wander round being an outfield player they should lose their privilege area ;D
;D ;D
Though I suppose it'd be a little bit harsh penalising a keeper for not getting his toe under the ball when diving to stop a penno!
I think just no forward into the box at all might be easiest to get police. Like the idea of increasing the size of the penalty area too btw.
In the Ros v Mon game, the Monaghan goalie clearly caught a high ball under the post, whilst he was midair a Ros player entered the area, jumped up and slammed the ball from the goalies' grip into the net along with the goalie.The ref awarded a goal.
How was it a goal under the rules? The ball was not in mid air.
I presume the ref thought it was in mid air, that the Ros player got to it before the goalie, he also consulted about the matter with 2 civilians in white coats.
Perfectly legal.
You cannot shoulder a goalkeeper in the square but all other legitimate tackling is allowed.
Always thought you weren't allowed to touch the keeper in small square at all.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 26, 2024, 07:59:38 AMAlways thought you weren't allowed to touch the keeper in small square at all.
Nah sure a keeper could just run the clock down standing soloing in his square if that was the case.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 26, 2024, 07:59:38 AMAlways thought you weren't allowed to touch the keeper in small square at all.
Cunnane touched the ball with his hand.
Any contact with the goalie was incidental to that tackle on the ball.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2024, 08:52:33 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 26, 2024, 07:59:38 AMAlways thought you weren't allowed to touch the keeper in small square at all.
Cunnane touched the ball with his hand.
Any contact with the goalie was incidental to that tackle on the ball.
I would like to hear our residents referee's take on this.
I though it was a fair goal.
So it is allowed to slap the ball out of the goalie's grasp and if the ball goes over the goal line it is a goal?
Even though the rule book just has one exception
"A score may be made by striking the ball in flight with the hand"
Loose ball after a tackle crosses line.
Also if goalie or defender carries ball over the goal line = goal.
Was that a loose ball? The goalie jumped up straight from his line, clearly caught the ball and while mid-air the ball was slapped out of his grasp over the goal line by the ros player.
If it's legal I can accept, but I don't recall any such precedents where the goalie had the ball slapped out of his grasp in such a fashion.
Didn't see it so can't comment on that one, but if a challenge on the ball in the square is done cleanly and its a challenge for the ball, not the keeper then that's ok, in the main the cries of ya can't touch the keeper in the square generally were followed by a ref's whistle, free out.
If a player (in the square or outside the square for that matter) rips the ball from another player its a foul, ya can't do that
If the player made contact with the ball cleanly and after that made contact with the keeper, then that's where it might be up for interpretation, it will be down to how the ref seen it
Whats the difference if the keeper comes out with the ball and its dispossessed as he toe taps the ball or goes to bounce it?
It was a clean tackle on the ball. The then loose ball went over the goal line.
Plaudits to Cunnane who followed the ball in, a trait we haven't been noted for.
And to Ref for not going with the lazy " can't go near keeper", free out practice.
I thought it was a perfectly good goal under the rules. I always interpreted any ball not in the control of the player in question to be a ball in flight provided it wasn't on the ground. So you cant kick it up for your self to fist in but can fist it any other format provided there is no other rule break. I'd also like to see the physics of who actually touches the ball last but you'd need at least a high speed camera for that
Teams being able to go back up to 15 players in extra time after having players sent off in ordinary time is kicked to touch in Newry over the weekend.
That was always a strange rule to be fair.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 26, 2024, 02:38:29 PMI thought it was a perfectly good goal under the rules. I always interpreted any ball not in the control of the player in question to be a ball in flight provided it wasn't on the ground. So you cant kick it up for your self to fist in but can fist it any other format provided there is no other rule break. I'd also like to see the physics of who actually touches the ball last but you'd need at least a high speed camera for that
This ball was not in flight and was in the full control of the goalie when it was struck out of his hands into the net. What rule are thinking of that favors the ref's decision in this situation?
To paraphrase the T. O. Playing Rules of Football
The tackle in Gaelic Football is a skill and is made on the ball.
In practice a good tackle is slapping the ball out of the hands if the player in possession.
TO also says goalkeeper may not be charged in the small parallelogram but may be challenged for possession
The goal (https://www.google.com/search?q=roscommon+monaghan+goal&oq=roscommon+monaghan+goal&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigAdIBCTgzNjdqMGoxNagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e52ea63b,vid:47Z6BHOouRo,st:0)
The keeper needed to be much stronger than that. He didn't hold on to the ball at all.
There is not a single thing wrong with that goal. He legally tackled the goalkeeper and the ball fell into the net.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 26, 2024, 05:13:52 PMTo paraphrase the T. O. Playing Rules of Football
The tackle in Gaelic Football is a skill and is made on the ball.
In practice a good tackle is slapping the ball out of the hands if the player in possession.
TO also says goalkeeper may not be charged in the small parallelogram but may be challenged for possession
I get that bit, I never had any issue with the tackle. I was more thinking (in error) of a goal being scored by slapping a static ball out of the goalie's grip and that being against the rule on goals scored by the hand, rather than the ball falling over the line as a consequence of a legal tackle.
Quote from: Main Street on February 26, 2024, 05:08:42 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 26, 2024, 02:38:29 PMI thought it was a perfectly good goal under the rules. I always interpreted any ball not in the control of the player in question to be a ball in flight provided it wasn't on the ground. So you cant kick it up for your self to fist in but can fist it any other format provided there is no other rule break. I'd also like to see the physics of who actually touches the ball last but you'd need at least a high speed camera for that
This ball was not in flight and was in the full control of the goalie when it was struck out of his hands into the net. What rule are thinking of that favors the ref's decision in this situation?
In flight isn't defined. I always understood it to mean any ball not on the ground or in your possession. I'm not sure how any other interpretation of it would work. It can't simply mean in the air otherwise you could solo a ball and then punch it in
Quote from: David McKeown on March 01, 2024, 09:51:56 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 26, 2024, 05:08:42 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 26, 2024, 02:38:29 PMI thought it was a perfectly good goal under the rules. I always interpreted any ball not in the control of the player in question to be a ball in flight provided it wasn't on the ground. So you cant kick it up for your self to fist in but can fist it any other format provided there is no other rule break. I'd also like to see the physics of who actually touches the ball last but you'd need at least a high speed camera for that
This ball was not in flight and was in the full control of the goalie when it was struck out of his hands into the net. What rule are thinking of that favors the ref's decision in this situation?
In flight isn't defined. I always understood it to mean any ball not on the ground or in your possession. I'm not sure how any other interpretation of it would work. It can't simply mean in the air otherwise you could solo a ball and then punch it in
In flight is defined.
The ball is deemed to be in flight, once it is off the ground, having been played away within the Rules of Fair Play.Are you certain the part in bold is against the rules?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 11:32:01 PMQuote from: David McKeown on March 01, 2024, 09:51:56 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 26, 2024, 05:08:42 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 26, 2024, 02:38:29 PMI thought it was a perfectly good goal under the rules. I always interpreted any ball not in the control of the player in question to be a ball in flight provided it wasn't on the ground. So you cant kick it up for your self to fist in but can fist it any other format provided there is no other rule break. I'd also like to see the physics of who actually touches the ball last but you'd need at least a high speed camera for that
This ball was not in flight and was in the full control of the goalie when it was struck out of his hands into the net. What rule are thinking of that favors the ref's decision in this situation?
In flight isn't defined. I always understood it to mean any ball not on the ground or in your possession. I'm not sure how any other interpretation of it would work. It can't simply mean in the air otherwise you could solo a ball and then punch it in
In flight is defined.
The ball is deemed to be in flight, once it is off the ground, having been played away within the Rules of Fair Play.
Are you certain the part in bold is against the rules?
I could 'drop' the ball not bounce it, palm it into the net and that's allowed
It's the definition of drop rather than bounce that the ref will decide.
I was thinking more about not catching the ball after a toe tap but punching it to the net.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 02, 2024, 07:16:48 AMI was thinking more about not catching the ball after a toe tap but punching it to the net.
Yeah I'm sure that's acceptable
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 11:32:01 PMQuote from: David McKeown on March 01, 2024, 09:51:56 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 26, 2024, 05:08:42 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 26, 2024, 02:38:29 PMI thought it was a perfectly good goal under the rules. I always interpreted any ball not in the control of the player in question to be a ball in flight provided it wasn't on the ground. So you cant kick it up for your self to fist in but can fist it any other format provided there is no other rule break. I'd also like to see the physics of who actually touches the ball last but you'd need at least a high speed camera for that
This ball was not in flight and was in the full control of the goalie when it was struck out of his hands into the net. What rule are thinking of that favors the ref's decision in this situation?
In flight isn't defined. I always understood it to mean any ball not on the ground or in your possession. I'm not sure how any other interpretation of it would work. It can't simply mean in the air otherwise you could solo a ball and then punch it in
In flight is defined.
The ball is deemed to be in flight, once it is off the ground, having been played away within the Rules of Fair Play.
Are you certain the part in bold is against the rules?
I did not know this thanks. I wonder when this was added because I don't remember it when I worked on the rule book. I think the bit in bold would be against that definition as it wouldn't be played away.
Having looked at the rule book though and not relied on my clearly wrong memory it doesn't matter about in flight in this situation.
Under the rules.
3.1 A goal is scored when the ball is played over the goal-line between the posts and under the crossbar by either team.
Exception
A player on the team attacking a goal and who is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents' goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a point with the open hand(s) or fist.
So the Roscommon lad wasn't in possession I wouldn't say so the goal was fine
The issue is that "played away" isn't defined.
To be honest I thought all goals scored with the hand were fine apart from typical hand passes and where the ball has been illegally touched on the ground.
goals from hands should be worth only 1 point (except own goals from hand they should be worth 3)
I loathe that hand slap and the (volleyball) palm push into the net. I say bring back the manly punch as the only option for scoring a goal with the hand.
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2024, 08:26:35 PMI loathe that hand slap and the (volleyball) palm push into the net. I say bring back the manly punch as the only option for scoring a goal with the hand.
Amen to that
Ban the fisted point while they're at it
New rules tomorrow should change things up with regards 'fake' injuries, players that need attention have to go off the pitch and only allowed back on at ref's 'discretion' 😉
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2024, 02:05:21 PMNew rules tomorrow should change things up with regards 'fake' injuries, players that need attention have to go off the pitch and only allowed back on at ref's 'discretion' 😉
About time.
Quote from: LeoMc on March 23, 2024, 06:35:47 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2024, 02:05:21 PMNew rules tomorrow should change things up with regards 'fake' injuries, players that need attention have to go off the pitch and only allowed back on at ref's 'discretion' 😉
About time.
And lads taking their helmets off will also need to leave the field of play and won't be allowed back on until the next break in play and from the middle of the field.
About time, as that rule was being badly abused.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 09:19:55 AMQuote from: LeoMc on March 23, 2024, 06:35:47 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2024, 02:05:21 PMNew rules tomorrow should change things up with regards 'fake' injuries, players that need attention have to go off the pitch and only allowed back on at ref's 'discretion' 😉
About time.
And lads taking their helmets off will also need to leave the field of play and won't be allowed back on until the next break in play and from the middle of the field.
About time, as that rule was being badly abused.
Hopefully the managers are aware of the new rules.. if no break in play it could hamper a team but I'd imagine a quick puck out to the sideline will be common enough
Nicky Q will need new contact lenses. 8)
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 09:48:27 AMNicky Q will need new contact lenses. 8)
Not sure it applies to keepers
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2024, 10:50:54 AMQuote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 09:48:27 AMNicky Q will need new contact lenses. 8)
Not sure it applies to keepers
Does it not?
Is his antics not one of the reasons for this new rule?
All a team have to do is tell their keeper to go down then and take helmet off.
In the Dubs v Mickey Harte's Derry, after a mass scrum on the 14m line the ref blew the whistle and eventually threw the ball up between 2 players. Had the attacking player gotten a good fist on the ball and it went over the goalie (off his line) and into the net, would that have been a legit goal?
Quote from: Main Street on April 01, 2024, 03:17:04 PMIn the Dubs v Mickey Harte's Derry, after a mass scrum on the 14m line the ref blew the whistle and eventually threw the ball up between 2 players. Had the attacking player gotten a good fist on the ball and it went over the goalie (off his line) and into the net, would that have been a legit goal?
I can't see why it wouldn't count
On a similar theme...
A player trying to fist the ball over the bar out of his hands, drops short and goes into the net. No goal
But if a defender fists the ball back towards his own goal , but the goalkeeper is out of his goal, and the ball goes into the net . Is that a legitimate goal?
Is it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
To look at the rule differently
An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal
A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal
So it's nearly the same as the above question.
Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on ;D
You have an 11% gap too ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 04:25:21 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
To look at the rule differently
An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal
A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal
So it's nearly the same as the above question.
Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on ;D
imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? ;D
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
I'm not sure
I remember Dublin v Laois a few years back. Think it was MDMA tried to fist the ball over the bar , but a Laois player got a partial block on it, and it went into the net. Goal was awarded. Had the Laois player not partially blocked it, the goal would have been ruled out.
So in terms of legitimate goals - I'd imagine it's:
attacking player fists direct to the net, no goal.
Defender fists direct into his own net, goal.
Of course it's a goal if you put it into your own net by any means.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 01, 2024, 05:14:49 PMOf course it's a goal if you put it into your own net by any means.
Would have thought so?
Quote from: Main Street on April 01, 2024, 04:53:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 04:25:21 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
To look at the rule differently
An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal
A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal
So it's nearly the same as the above question.
Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on ;D
imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? ;D
The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.
So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!
It's nearly the same but it's not the same... devil is in the detail.
On a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2024, 06:48:51 PMOn a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line
I was replying to a ref,do you think he would know that?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 06:38:28 PMQuote from: Main Street on April 01, 2024, 04:53:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 04:25:21 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
To look at the rule differently
An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal
A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal
So it's nearly the same as the above question.
Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on ;D
imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? ;D
The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.
So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!
I was not that serious about the 89% but my point stands, anybody here in this thread should be able to ask a question about a rule without some level of mockery directed against them re the ignorance of said questioner, give or take a metre or so.
I don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
Quote from: Main Street on April 02, 2024, 12:42:19 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2024, 06:48:51 PMOn a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line
I was replying to a ref,do you think he would know that?Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 06:38:28 PMQuote from: Main Street on April 01, 2024, 04:53:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 04:25:21 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
To look at the rule differently
An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal
A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal
So it's nearly the same as the above question.
Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on ;D
imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? ;D
The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.
So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!
I was not that serious about the 89% but my point stands, anybody here in this thread should be able to ask a question about a rule without some level of mockery directed against them re the ignorance of said questioner, give or take a metre or so.
It's a discussion board yes and my posts are mainly tongue firmly in cheek but as wobbler said, it's annoying when people come across so right in their view that they take offence when corrected!
This filters down to behind the fence, on sideline and on the pitch. You'd expect senior players to know the rules? So if I come across with some mockery, don't take it personally, it's frustration mainly.
Quote from: Main Street on April 01, 2024, 04:53:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 04:25:21 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
To look at the rule differently
An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal
A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal
So it's nearly the same as the above question.
Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on ;D
imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? ;D
;D.. In fairness I don't think I ever got as high as 89% in an exam
I think there is also an element of the nature of the rulebook itself. The fundamental rules of for example association football haven't really been tweaked much over the years. A few interpretations have but the rules themselves have remained pretty consistent. Its the same in most sports. In the GAA it seems like it changes on an annual basis. Sometimes only subtly yet those minor tweaks can have significant effects.
It can be hard for most people to keep up. I remember most of the Armagh fans around me being very curious why Armagh were awarded a penalty against Cavan when the foul was clearly outside the large square, it was due to it being a black card offence denial of goalscoring opportunity within the 21.
On top of that the association's approach to how to tweak rules has been inconsistent over the years with the make up of the relevant committees changing drastically over the years. As a result it can lead to questions over what is intended by some of the rules and the approach that should be used to interpreting them. The double bounce that wasn't a double bounce for that goal by Kerry v Dublin (i think it was last year) being a prime example.
Finally I don't think there's a permanent committee or person whose job it is to officially explain a decision or an interpretation the way there is in the NFL or association football. I think someone like that would help as well
Quote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game
First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.
Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!
Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"
Two different views, one whistle
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 07:38:23 AMQuote from: Main Street on April 02, 2024, 12:42:19 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2024, 06:48:51 PMOn a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line
I was replying to a ref,do you think he would know that?Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 06:38:28 PMQuote from: Main Street on April 01, 2024, 04:53:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 04:25:21 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
To look at the rule differently
An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal
A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal
So it's nearly the same as the above question.
Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on ;D
imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? ;D
The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.
So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!
I was not that serious about the 89% but my point stands, anybody here in this thread should be able to ask a question about a rule without some level of mockery directed against them re the ignorance of said questioner, give or take a metre or so.
It's a discussion board yes and my posts are mainly tongue firmly in cheek but as wobbler said, it's annoying when people come across so right in their view that they take offence when corrected!
This filters down to behind the fence, on sideline and on the pitch. You'd expect senior players to know the rules? So if I come across with some mockery, don't take it personally, it's frustration mainly.
In other threads - post match threads, you are welcome to ride the high horse and take the pee. But here, when somebody asks a question I´d say either offer up a reply with no add-on sarcastic comment or just don't reply.
Quote from: Main Street on April 02, 2024, 11:15:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 07:38:23 AMQuote from: Main Street on April 02, 2024, 12:42:19 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2024, 06:48:51 PMOn a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line
I was replying to a ref,do you think he would know that?Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 06:38:28 PMQuote from: Main Street on April 01, 2024, 04:53:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2024, 04:25:21 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2024, 04:21:28 PMIs it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?
To look at the rule differently
An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal
A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal
So it's nearly the same as the above question.
Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on ;D
imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? ;D
The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.
So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!
I was not that serious about the 89% but my point stands, anybody here in this thread should be able to ask a question about a rule without some level of mockery directed against them re the ignorance of said questioner, give or take a metre or so.
It's a discussion board yes and my posts are mainly tongue firmly in cheek but as wobbler said, it's annoying when people come across so right in their view that they take offence when corrected!
This filters down to behind the fence, on sideline and on the pitch. You'd expect senior players to know the rules? So if I come across with some mockery, don't take it personally, it's frustration mainly.
In other threads - post match threads, you are welcome to ride the high horse and take the pee. But here, when somebody asks a question I´d say either offer up a reply with no add-on sarcastic comment or just don't reply.
So you don't do sarcastic responses? I could check, but think you'll find there's plenty.
I offer reply's. Would you prefer just to have your own call on something without a different perspective?
It's not life or death the board, it's light hearted. If you're taking this too thick just hit the ignore button.
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I remember discussing this with a prominent inter county player when we were at uni. His response always stuck out to me. He said that he didn't care at all about in game consistency but rather that the ref got the decision correct. That way there'd be more game to game consistency over the course of the season and they wouldn't have to prepare for specific refs.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 03, 2024, 01:41:42 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I remember discussing this with a prominent inter county player when we were at uni. His response always stuck out to me. He said that he didn't care at all about in game consistency but rather that the ref got the decision correct. That way there'd be more game to game consistency over the course of the season and they wouldn't have to prepare for specific refs.
a fair point too
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 06:43:22 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game
First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.
Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!
Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"
Two different views, one whistle
The over the shoulder "flick" is getting pretty common in hurling, but is that not a chop down which should be a foul, no?
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 04:52:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 06:43:22 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game
First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.
Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!
Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"
Two different views, one whistle
The over the shoulder "flick" is getting pretty common in hurling, but is that not a chop down which should be a foul, no?
Not if he plays the ball, if he attempts to play ball misses, chops down or plays hurl it's a foul, but the body check style, arms out, followed by a plea of "he's dipped into it" that means nowt, players have a duty of care also.
Had to laugh, called a foul, knee high strike, absolutely nowhere near the ball. Lad says you were at that when you were playing ;D. Probably got away with it too
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2024, 07:12:49 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 04:52:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 06:43:22 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game
First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.
Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!
Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"
Two different views, one whistle
The over the shoulder "flick" is getting pretty common in hurling, but is that not a chop down which should be a foul, no?
Not if he plays the ball, if he attempts to play ball misses, chops down or plays hurl it's a foul, but the body check style, arms out, followed by a plea of "he's dipped into it" that means nowt, players have a duty of care also.
Had to laugh, called a foul, knee high strike, absolutely nowhere near the ball. Lad says you were at that when you were playing ;D. Probably got away with it too
Class.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2024, 07:12:49 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 04:52:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 06:43:22 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game
First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.
Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!
Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"
Two different views, one whistle
The over the shoulder "flick" is getting pretty common in hurling, but is that not a chop down which should be a foul, no?
Not if he plays the ball, if he attempts to play ball misses, chops down or plays hurl it's a foul, but the body check style, arms out, followed by a plea of "he's dipped into it" that means nowt, players have a duty of care also.
Had to laugh, called a foul, knee high strike, absolutely nowhere near the ball. Lad says you were at that when you were playing ;D. Probably got away with it too
How is that downward chop any different to someone doing the same when someone is rising the ball though?
And if you get the hand and ball, is it much different to the yellow card the Tipp lad got when blocking a high ball and catching the Clare lads hand?
Duty of care and all that shíte.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 04, 2024, 10:30:53 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2024, 07:12:49 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 04:52:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 06:43:22 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game
First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.
Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!
Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"
Two different views, one whistle
The over the shoulder "flick" is getting pretty common in hurling, but is that not a chop down which should be a foul, no?
Not if he plays the ball, if he attempts to play ball misses, chops down or plays hurl it's a foul, but the body check style, arms out, followed by a plea of "he's dipped into it" that means nowt, players have a duty of care also.
Had to laugh, called a foul, knee high strike, absolutely nowhere near the ball. Lad says you were at that when you were playing ;D. Probably got away with it too
How is that downward chop any different to someone doing the same when someone is rising the ball though?
And if you get the hand and ball, is it much different to the yellow card the Tipp lad got when blocking a high ball and catching the Clare lads hand?
Duty of care and all that shíte.
Very valid point and same goes for the eejit that sticks his foot in a ruck and the player gets ball and foot.
But in the rules, chop
down on hurl is a foul so we can't just change that. Connecting with the head with hurl is in the rules also.
As David has rightly said on many occasions the rules need a overhaul
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2024, 10:52:49 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 04, 2024, 10:30:53 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2024, 07:12:49 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 04:52:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 06:43:22 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game
First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.
Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!
Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"
Two different views, one whistle
The over the shoulder "flick" is getting pretty common in hurling, but is that not a chop down which should be a foul, no?
Not if he plays the ball, if he attempts to play ball misses, chops down or plays hurl it's a foul, but the body check style, arms out, followed by a plea of "he's dipped into it" that means nowt, players have a duty of care also.
Had to laugh, called a foul, knee high strike, absolutely nowhere near the ball. Lad says you were at that when you were playing ;D. Probably got away with it too
How is that downward chop any different to someone doing the same when someone is rising the ball though?
And if you get the hand and ball, is it much different to the yellow card the Tipp lad got when blocking a high ball and catching the Clare lads hand?
Duty of care and all that shíte.
Very valid point and same goes for the eejit that sticks his foot in a ruck and the player gets ball and foot.
But in the rules, chop down on hurl is a foul so we can't just change that. Connecting with the head with hurl is in the rules also.
As David has rightly said on many occasions the rules need a overhaul
God, I'd love to see someone fly into a ruck and let fly and be allowed to. That would soon put an end to those rucks which are a blight on the game.
like a bunch of old hens picking at spilled barley a local lad from farming stock called it one day.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 04, 2024, 11:21:04 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2024, 10:52:49 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 04, 2024, 10:30:53 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2024, 07:12:49 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 04:52:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2024, 06:43:22 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 02, 2024, 04:57:58 PMQuote from: thewobbler on April 02, 2024, 12:53:57 AMI don't think it's mockery to be honest.
It's more frustration.
A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.
Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.
It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.
People are people.
Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.
I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?
I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game
First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.
Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!
Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"
Two different views, one whistle
The over the shoulder "flick" is getting pretty common in hurling, but is that not a chop down which should be a foul, no?
Not if he plays the ball, if he attempts to play ball misses, chops down or plays hurl it's a foul, but the body check style, arms out, followed by a plea of "he's dipped into it" that means nowt, players have a duty of care also.
Had to laugh, called a foul, knee high strike, absolutely nowhere near the ball. Lad says you were at that when you were playing ;D. Probably got away with it too
How is that downward chop any different to someone doing the same when someone is rising the ball though?
And if you get the hand and ball, is it much different to the yellow card the Tipp lad got when blocking a high ball and catching the Clare lads hand?
Duty of care and all that shíte.
Very valid point and same goes for the eejit that sticks his foot in a ruck and the player gets ball and foot.
But in the rules, chop down on hurl is a foul so we can't just change that. Connecting with the head with hurl is in the rules also.
As David has rightly said on many occasions the rules need a overhaul
God, I'd love to see someone fly into a ruck and let fly and be allowed to. That would soon put an end to those rucks which are a blight on the game.
like a bunch of old hens picking at spilled barley a local lad from farming stock called it one day.
I've no issues with that, providing that contact with the ball is first, as the say goes "ball and all"
If an attacker fails to protect his hand when catching the ball though very rarely will a ref blow, though I remember a club mate went for a ball and ended up dislocating his finger, I said "FFS, did you not keep the hurl up?" He said "aye, I did, he smashed my other hand holding the hurl"
Funnily enough, it was some aul bruiser from Ports lol
Too much hurley stuff infecting this thread😳
Back to football I see Smug Jim expects to be trialling a scatter of new football rules in League AND Championship in 2025!
The rules advisory committee is top-heavy with county players/managers. The real problem is at club level, esp in the lower divisions, 15 men behind the ball, endless hand passing around the 45, uncontested kick-outs
They're all looking at club football as much as anyone - where do you think counties get coaches and players?
During the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 05:24:51 PMDuring the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
I thought you could. Otherwise what's the point of the advantage it would actually at times be a disadvantage
Quote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2024, 05:41:36 PMQuote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 05:24:51 PMDuring the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
I thought you could. Otherwise what's the point of the advantage it would actually at times be a disadvantage
No a technical foul during the advantage should result in reversal of the original decision
Quote from: Nanderson on May 05, 2024, 07:13:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2024, 05:41:36 PMQuote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 05:24:51 PMDuring the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
I thought you could. Otherwise what's the point of the advantage it would actually at times be a disadvantage
No a technical foul during the advantage should result in reversal of the original decision
And for clarity, an overcarry is a technical foul? Took a punt there.. It's pedantic but if that's right, it's mad that a co commentator would say that.
Also think the midfield mark should in include the AFL 'play on' at any time. Speed the thing along, Mayo 12 (I think) got caught. Needless stuff.
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 07:35:57 PMQuote from: Nanderson on May 05, 2024, 07:13:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2024, 05:41:36 PMQuote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 05:24:51 PMDuring the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
I thought you could. Otherwise what's the point of the advantage it would actually at times be a disadvantage
No a technical foul during the advantage should result in reversal of the original decision
And for clarity, an overcarry is a technical foul? Took a punt there.. It's pedantic but if that's right, it's mad that a co commentator would say that.
Also think the midfield mark should in include the AFL 'play on' at any time. Speed the thing along, Mayo 12 (I think) got caught. Needless stuff.
Yes an overcarry is a technical foul
Quote from: Nanderson on May 05, 2024, 07:13:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2024, 05:41:36 PMQuote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 05:24:51 PMDuring the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
I thought you could. Otherwise what's the point of the advantage it would actually at times be a disadvantage
No a technical foul during the advantage should result in reversal of the original decision
I thought you simply couldn't benefit from a technical foul during the advantage. What if a foul occurs after you as you go to solo or toe tap preventing you from toe tapping does the ref signal play on and then immediately change their decision? Can they not give an advantage in that scenario?
I have never liked the advantage rule in GAA anyway its like a bad hybrid of the rule in soccer and rugby.
Also where is the rule on the advantage procedure contained?
Quote from: Nanderson on May 05, 2024, 07:13:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2024, 05:41:36 PMQuote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 05:24:51 PMDuring the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
I thought you could. Otherwise what's the point of the advantage it would actually at times be a disadvantage
No a technical foul during the advantage should result in reversal of the original decision
Eh? Where you getting this from? It's literally an advantage, not 'might be an advantage'! Have you ever seen advantage reversed in any game due to a technical foul, ever?
He's getting it straight from the rule book.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 05, 2024, 08:48:42 PMHe's getting it straight from the rule book.
OK, send in the rule / wording, I'm happy to stand corrected
Quote from: JoG2 on May 05, 2024, 08:27:31 PMQuote from: Nanderson on May 05, 2024, 07:13:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2024, 05:41:36 PMQuote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 05:24:51 PMDuring the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
I thought you could. Otherwise what's the point of the advantage it would actually at times be a disadvantage
No a technical foul during the advantage should result in reversal of the original decision
Eh? Where you getting this from? It's literally an advantage, not 'might be an advantage'! Have you ever seen advantage reversed in any game due to a technical foul, ever?
Foul Subsequent to Advantage AwardIf, during the advantage period, a foul is committed by a player of the team which was originally fouled then the advantage is cancelled and a free kick/puck awarded for the "second" foul.
Quote from: JoG2 on May 05, 2024, 09:05:54 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 05, 2024, 08:48:42 PMHe's getting it straight from the rule book.
OK, send in the rule / wording, I'm happy to stand corrected
https://learning.gaa.ie/Referee/Advantage
Fill your boots.
Quote from: Nanderson on May 05, 2024, 09:09:15 PMQuote from: JoG2 on May 05, 2024, 08:27:31 PMQuote from: Nanderson on May 05, 2024, 07:13:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2024, 05:41:36 PMQuote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 05, 2024, 05:24:51 PMDuring the advantage period of 5 seconds, I thought any technical fouls by the attacking player was a free against them. i.e you can't just stand there or overcarry to claim the free.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice said the ref came back for the advantage after Conroy overcarried in the 1st half.
I thought you could. Otherwise what's the point of the advantage it would actually at times be a disadvantage
No a technical foul during the advantage should result in reversal of the original decision
Eh? Where you getting this from? It's literally an advantage, not 'might be an advantage'! Have you ever seen advantage reversed in any game due to a technical foul, ever?
Foul Subsequent to Advantage Award
If, during the advantage period, a foul is committed by a player of the team which was originally fouled then the advantage is cancelled and a free kick/puck awarded for the "second" foul.
Thanks. So this rule above, which isn't in the official GAA rule book, is only stated in the referee's handbook. Couldn't be anymore from the 'world of GAA rules' if it tried.
You don't seem happy to stand corrected, if I'm honest.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 05, 2024, 09:49:38 PMYou don't seem happy to stand corrected, if I'm honest.
;D, thank you too. If the GAA could sync the official rulebook with the referees handbook, that would make the island happier, not just me
Quote from: JoG2 on May 05, 2024, 10:45:15 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 05, 2024, 09:49:38 PMYou don't seem happy to stand corrected, if I'm honest.
;D, thank you too. If the GAA could sync the official rulebook with the referees handbook, that would make the island happier, not just me
A rule not in a rule book..
Anyway, to restate the main point. A co commentator not knowing this. How have viewers a chance.
At least it's not in conflict with the rule book that's happened in the past. Again though I think it shows the need for root and branch reform.
It's also a bit of a nonsense to me. Get fouled. Get advantage. Get bottled up by good defending. Lose advantage.
How exactly do you claim the free kick then. Must you shoot or play the ball to an opponent or something?
Also how is a shot at goal (regardless of outcome) not an advantage over say a 21m free?
Quote from: David McKeown on May 06, 2024, 09:36:26 AMAt least it's not in conflict with the rule book that's happened in the past. Again though I think it shows the need for root and branch reform.
It's also a bit of a nonsense to me. Get fouled. Get advantage. Get bottled up by good defending. Lose advantage.
How exactly do you claim the free kick then. Must you shoot or play the ball to an opponent or something?
Also how is a shot at goal (regardless of outcome) not an advantage over say a 21m free?
I think you could be allowed to stop and claim the free.
And how is the fouled player to know he has an advantage? eyes in the back of his head?
It's a totally idiotic advantage rule when you can lose the advantage inside 4 seconds.
If a player does happen to notice that he has the advantage, can he stop play and say, 'thanks ref but I want the free kick not the so called advantage'?
Quote from: Main Street on May 06, 2024, 11:48:58 AMAnd how is the fouled player to know he has an advantage? eyes in the back of his head?
It's a totally idiotic advantage rule when you can lose the advantage inside 4 seconds.
If a player does happen to notice that he has the advantage, can he stop play and say, 'thanks ref but I want the free kick not the so called advantage'?
No, he has to 'honestly' play on and make the ref call it that no advantage is being gained.
I think a ref would give the free in the case of getting bottled up, as it would be clear no advantage is being gained at the start of the bottling up.
It's where the attacking player overcarries for no ones fault but their own that a foul would be called.
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 06, 2024, 12:57:07 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 06, 2024, 11:48:58 AMAnd how is the fouled player to know he has an advantage? eyes in the back of his head?
It's a totally idiotic advantage rule when you can lose the advantage inside 4 seconds.
If a player does happen to notice that he has the advantage, can he stop play and say, 'thanks ref but I want the free kick not the so called advantage'?
No, he has to 'honestly' play on and make the ref call it that no advantage is being gained.
I think a ref would give the free in the case of getting bottled up, as it would be clear no advantage is being gained at the start of the bottling up.
It's where the attacking player overcarries for no ones fault but their own that a foul would be called.
Doesn't sound like a consistent application of the rules. If you give the advantage surely you have to let the 5 seconds play out in case you come out of being bottled up.
Never liked the advantage rule. I think it's trying to be all things to all men and ends up just being farcical
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 06, 2024, 12:57:07 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 06, 2024, 11:48:58 AMAnd how is the fouled player to know he has an advantage? eyes in the back of his head?
It's a totally idiotic advantage rule when you can lose the advantage inside 4 seconds.
If a player does happen to notice that he has the advantage, can he stop play and say, 'thanks ref but I want the free kick not the so called advantage'?
No, he has to 'honestly' play on and make the ref call it that no advantage is being gained.
I think a ref would give the free in the case of getting bottled up, as it would be clear no advantage is being gained at the start of the bottling up.
It's where the attacking player overcarries for no ones fault but their own that a foul would be called.
Thanks, are you saying if the ref plays advantage but subsequently the player gets caught in a swarm and holds onto the ball too long, the ref would generally call the play back for the advantage as you alluded to?
But that in the event of the player committing a technical foul on his own accord (too many steps), the ref will generally call the foul against the player?
Quote from: Main Street on May 06, 2024, 01:37:48 PMQuote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 06, 2024, 12:57:07 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 06, 2024, 11:48:58 AMAnd how is the fouled player to know he has an advantage? eyes in the back of his head?
It's a totally idiotic advantage rule when you can lose the advantage inside 4 seconds.
If a player does happen to notice that he has the advantage, can he stop play and say, 'thanks ref but I want the free kick not the so called advantage'?
No, he has to 'honestly' play on and make the ref call it that no advantage is being gained.
I think a ref would give the free in the case of getting bottled up, as it would be clear no advantage is being gained at the start of the bottling up.
It's where the attacking player overcarries for no ones fault but their own that a foul would be called.
Thanks, are you saying if the ref plays advantage but subsequently the player gets caught in a swarm and holds onto the ball too long, the ref would generally call the play back for the advantage as you alluded to?
But that in the event of the player committing a technical foul on his own accord (too many steps), the ref will generally call the foul against the player?
Refs rarely penalise steps when advantage is given. Tommy Conroy was given an advantage in the 1st half yesterday, proceeded to take way too many steps. Gough stopped play and gave original free to Mayo, which they pointed.
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on May 06, 2024, 12:57:07 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 06, 2024, 11:48:58 AMAnd how is the fouled player to know he has an advantage? eyes in the back of his head?
It's a totally idiotic advantage rule when you can lose the advantage inside 4 seconds.
If a player does happen to notice that he has the advantage, can he stop play and say, 'thanks ref but I want the free kick not the so called advantage'?
No, he has to 'honestly' play on and make the ref call it that no advantage is being gained.
I think a ref would give the free in the case of getting bottled up, as it would be clear no advantage is being gained at the start of the bottling up.
It's where the attacking player overcarries for no ones fault but their own that a foul would be called.
A simple rule made into a minefield by the powers that be. The addition to the rule in the official guide / rules (effective from March 2024), in the referee's handbook (which was obviously news to me yesterday, and I want state on record that I'm delighted to have this new rule add-on learnt to let rip at a future game) states:
Foul Subsequent to Advantage Award
If, during the advantage period, a foul is committed by a player of the team which was originally fouled then the advantage is cancelled and a free kick/puck awarded for the "second" foul.The above is not stated in the Official Playing Rules.
5.44
When an Aggressive Foul is committed, the Referee may allow the play to continue if the referee considers that this presents the potential of a goal-scoring opportunity or another advantage to the team offended by creating or capitalising on time and space. The Referee shall signal that advantage by raising an arm upright and shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining that arm in the upright position for up to five seconds afterthe foul or for less time if it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. If the referee deems no advantage to have accrued, the Referee may subsequently award a free for the foul from where it occurred, except as provided under Exceptions (v) and (vi) of Rule 2.2For clarity Rule 2.2 (v and vi)
(v)When play is restarted by throwing in the ball after a foul(s) within 13m ofthe sideline, the throw-in shall be given 13m from the sideline and directly infield from where the foul(s) occurred.
(vi) When play is restarted by throwing in the ball after a foul(s) between the endline and the 20m line, the throw-in shall be given on the 20m line opposite where the foul(s) occurred, subject to the provisions stated in
On the rule itself, if a player (hypothetical scenario, the player is bursting into the big D, 20m out from goal) is fouled, the ref's hand goes up to signal 5 seconds advantage, the player breaks free and shoots from 15m out, dead centre, misses, the ref will call it back. 2 bites of the cherry if you will.
Now, the same player takes 6 steps trying evade another defender, maybe he's been knocked off balance during the first tackle, commits a technical foul, maybe charges into another player, and loses the advantage.
Before the advantage rule was brought in, the player would have just got the very scorable free. Now, he could get either 2 easy shots for a score or nothing. Once the hands goes up, he has 5 seconds to not foul or he loses the free. He can't shout to ref 'here, I'll take the free thanks'..
If, for example, Conor Loftus during the final play in yesterday's Connacht final had been initially fouled and Gough's hand was up giving Loftus his 5 seconds advantage when the 2 Galway players tackled him (you can't tackle a man's neck and face, but that's for another day), Loftus was deemed to have committed a technical foul ie over carried the ball and would therefore have lost his advantage. In the olden days, Loftus gets his free, batters it up the pitch, game over.
Advantage 101 by the GAA
Even this bit doesnt make sense
5.44
When an Aggressive Foul is committed, the Referee may allow the play to continue if the referee considers that this presents the potential of a goal-scoring opportunity or another advantage to the team offended by creating or capitalising on time and space. The Referee shall signal that advantage by raising an arm upright and shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining that arm in the upright position for up to five seconds after the foul or for less time if it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. If the referee deems no advantage to have accrued, the Referee may subsequently award a free for the foul from where it occurred, except as provided under Exceptions (v) and (vi) of Rule 2.2
The referee may allow the play to continue if there is a potential for an advantage in the next five seconds but can allow less if no advantage accrues in that lesser time. What if no advantage accrues after say 3 seconds but one might still occur. What does the ref do? The tenses are wrong are they not?
I am even more confused now by the rule than I was when i didnt actually know what it was
Quote from: David McKeown on May 06, 2024, 03:20:13 PMEven this bit doesnt make sense
5.44
When an Aggressive Foul is committed, the Referee may allow the play to continue if the referee considers that this presents the potential of a goal-scoring opportunity or another advantage to the team offended by creating or capitalising on time and space. The Referee shall signal that advantage by raising an arm upright and shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining that arm in the upright position for up to five seconds after the foul or for less time if it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued. If the referee deems no advantage to have accrued, the Referee may subsequently award a free for the foul from where it occurred, except as provided under Exceptions (v) and (vi) of Rule 2.2
The referee may allow the play to continue if there is a potential for an advantage in the next five seconds but can allow less if no advantage accrues in that lesser time. What if no advantage accrues after say 3 seconds but one might still occur. What does the ref do? The tenses are wrong are they not?
I am even more confused now by the rule than I was when i didnt actually know what it was
;D
Personally I let it continue a 'good' 5 seconds in those critical areas (goal scoring ops) and other than him committing an aggressive foul himself or literally taking the piss in steps I'll bring back for the original
2 games in a row now (football) lads and management are still unsure of the rules for even the basics that have been about for years.
As David has said many times, its not a black and white set of rules, it is in most parts down to the ref's interpretation of the rules which largely pisses people off, but that's the way it is currently until a review is done to tidy it up
Before the advantage rule we used to have the 'slow' whistle which allowed us to give a player a chance to 'break' free of a challenge and possibly set up play, or score. Sort of stuck on both now lol!
Too hot to be looking up the playing rules in T.O....
You make a forward mark, signal you're taking it, can you punch the ball over the bar or must it be kicked?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 09, 2024, 12:33:12 PMToo hot to be looking up the playing rules in T.O....
You make a forward mark, signal you're taking it, can you punch the ball over the bar or must it be kicked?
You'd need to be on glue to fist the ball over the bar when calling a mark. Even if that is allowed I'd be calling that one up
It's a free kick from the hands.
Hi men! I am Giovanni from Italy, I come from Rome. I am an amateur soccer player and now I discover this new sport, i.e. Gaelic Football.
I have already read all the rules but I still have doubts.
Ok, let's get started.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
2. Rule: 1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.. So a player could control the ball with one hand (or two?) and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
3. When a player tries to catch a ball in the air he may touch the ball several times with his hands as long as he has control of it. But could he continue to bounce the ball from his hand into the air as Hurling players do with stick and ball?
Rule: To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts
But, according to the rule, a player, once he touches the ball once in the air, cannot touch it a second or third time?
I believe as long as he can't control the ball the player could do it, but if we interpret the rule literally this wouldn't be legal, would it?
4. Situation: a player takes possession and hops the ball.
A. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces the ground, a posts or a player.
B. he flicks it to pass the ball to someone else.
C. he flicks it to score a goal.
are A, B, C legals?
5. Situation: a player with the foot or with other parts of body but the hands tries a "Sombrero trick" and:
A. in the air he strikes the ball to an other direction.
B. in the air he strikes the ball and then he caught it.
C. in the air he caught it and goes on.
6. Ladies Gaelic football allows this:
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
So a player toss up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
What does mean this Rule: Showing the Ball or Turning Twice with the ball is NOT a foul providing it is done within the 4 step rule.
I mean what are the showing the ball or turning twice.
Thanks
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2024, 12:25:28 PMPersonally I let it continue a 'good' 5 seconds in those critical areas (goal scoring ops) and other than him committing an aggressive foul himself or literally taking the piss in steps I'll bring back for the original
2 games in a row now (football) lads and management are still unsure of the rules for even the basics that have been about for years.
As David has said many times, its not a black and white set of rules, it is in most parts down to the ref's interpretation of the rules which largely pisses people off, but that's the way it is currently until a review is done to tidy it up
Before the advantage rule we used to have the 'slow' whistle which allowed us to give a player a chance to 'break' free of a challenge and possibly set up play, or score. Sort of stuck on both now lol!
There was one last night in the Cork v Limerick match that made me wonder. Cork attacking near the end chasing a goal. Advantage given inside the 21. Player breaks free, and gets a shot away off target. Goes over the bar but he was clearly shooting for goal. Should that come back? I mean I know he scored but Cork needed a goal and got one from a free in the same position against Clare the last day out. I genuinely don't know what should happen in that scenario. Would the attacker have been better deliberately missing?
Quote from: Gianni on May 12, 2024, 10:47:35 AMHi men! I am Giovanni from Italy, I come from Rome. I am an amateur soccer player and now I discover this new sport, i.e. Gaelic Football.
I have already read all the rules but I still have doubts.
Ok, let's get started.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
2. Rule: 1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.. So a player could control the ball with one hand (or two?) and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
3. When a player tries to catch a ball in the air he may touch the ball several times with his hands as long as he has control of it. But could he continue to bounce the ball from his hand into the air as Hurling players do with stick and ball?
Rule: To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts
But, according to the rule, a player, once he touches the ball once in the air, cannot touch it a second or third time?
I believe as long as he can't control the ball the player could do it, but if we interpret the rule literally this wouldn't be legal, would it?
4. Situation: a player takes possession and hops the ball.
A. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces the ground, a posts or a player.
B. he flicks it to pass the ball to someone else.
C. he flicks it to score a goal.
are A, B, C legals?
5. Situation: a player with the foot or with other parts of body but the hands tries a "Sombrero trick" and:
A. in the air he strikes the ball to an other direction.
B. in the air he strikes the ball and then he caught it.
C. in the air he caught it and goes on.
6. Ladies Gaelic football allows this:
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
So a player toss up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
What does mean this Rule: Showing the Ball or Turning Twice with the ball is NOT a foul providing it is done within the 4 step rule.
I mean what are the showing the ball or turning twice.
Thanks
I'll leave these to the resident ref but you have given PTSD with point 2. The way that rule is to be interpreted after the Clifford or Ganey (can't remember which) goal makes no sense. For a ball to be considered bounced it has to leave the hands, hit the ground and return immediately into the hand. As a result the the rule basically says you can continue to bounce the ball provided you never bounce the ball.
That's a good point.
It also reinforces my belief that the rule is wrong in that if you get an opportunity to shoot from a more advantageous position then you should not get a free regardless of the outcome.
It should be one or the other.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 12, 2024, 11:00:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2024, 12:25:28 PMPersonally I let it continue a 'good' 5 seconds in those critical areas (goal scoring ops) and other than him committing an aggressive foul himself or literally taking the piss in steps I'll bring back for the original
2 games in a row now (football) lads and management are still unsure of the rules for even the basics that have been about for years.
As David has said many times, its not a black and white set of rules, it is in most parts down to the ref's interpretation of the rules which largely pisses people off, but that's the way it is currently until a review is done to tidy it up
Before the advantage rule we used to have the 'slow' whistle which allowed us to give a player a chance to 'break' free of a challenge and possibly set up play, or score. Sort of stuck on both now lol!
There was one last night in the Cork v Limerick match that made me wonder. Cork attacking near the end chasing a goal. Advantage given inside the 21. Player breaks free, and gets a shot away off target. Goes over the bar but he was clearly shooting for goal. Should that come back? I mean I know he scored but Cork needed a goal and got one from a free in the same position against Clare the last day out. I genuinely don't know what should happen in that scenario. Would the attacker have been better deliberately missing?
Remembered it, never thought that any of the players or management wanted that retaken. But it's a good point because had he missed it would have undoubtedly been brought back for a 21 yard free.
The introduction of the advantage rule was to reduce the amount of fouls happening in the game, creating less breaks better fluency.
When done well it's better for the game, think it works better in hurling.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 12, 2024, 11:15:27 AMQuote from: David McKeown on May 12, 2024, 11:00:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2024, 12:25:28 PMPersonally I let it continue a 'good' 5 seconds in those critical areas (goal scoring ops) and other than him committing an aggressive foul himself or literally taking the piss in steps I'll bring back for the original
2 games in a row now (football) lads and management are still unsure of the rules for even the basics that have been about for years.
As David has said many times, its not a black and white set of rules, it is in most parts down to the ref's interpretation of the rules which largely pisses people off, but that's the way it is currently until a review is done to tidy it up
Before the advantage rule we used to have the 'slow' whistle which allowed us to give a player a chance to 'break' free of a challenge and possibly set up play, or score. Sort of stuck on both now lol!
There was one last night in the Cork v Limerick match that made me wonder. Cork attacking near the end chasing a goal. Advantage given inside the 21. Player breaks free, and gets a shot away off target. Goes over the bar but he was clearly shooting for goal. Should that come back? I mean I know he scored but Cork needed a goal and got one from a free in the same position against Clare the last day out. I genuinely don't know what should happen in that scenario. Would the attacker have been better deliberately missing?
Remembered it, never thought that any of the players or management wanted that retaken. But it's a good point because had he missed it would have undoubtedly been brought back for a 21 yard free.
The introduction of the advantage rule was to reduce the amount of fouls happening in the game, creating less breaks better fluency.
When done well it's better for the game, think it works better in hurling.
To be fair I think (as proved in hindsight) there was still enough time left. Had it been three or four minutes later there might have been more call to get the free
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 12, 2024, 11:12:56 AMThat's a good point.
It also reinforces my belief that the rule is wrong in that if you get an opportunity to shoot from a more advantageous position then you should not get a free regardless of the outcome.
It should be one or the other.
depends if you're shooting off balance i think
Quote from: David McKeown on May 12, 2024, 11:11:00 AMQuote from: Gianni on May 12, 2024, 10:47:35 AMHi men! I am Giovanni from Italy, I come from Rome. I am an amateur soccer player and now I discover this new sport, i.e. Gaelic Football.
I have already read all the rules but I still have doubts.
Ok, let's get started.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
2. Rule: 1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.. So a player could control the ball with one hand (or two?) and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
3. When a player tries to catch a ball in the air he may touch the ball several times with his hands as long as he has control of it. But could he continue to bounce the ball from his hand into the air as Hurling players do with stick and ball?
Rule: To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts
But, according to the rule, a player, once he touches the ball once in the air, cannot touch it a second or third time?
I believe as long as he can't control the ball the player could do it, but if we interpret the rule literally this wouldn't be legal, would it?
4. Situation: a player takes possession and hops the ball.
A. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces the ground, a posts or a player.
B. he flicks it to pass the ball to someone else.
C. he flicks it to score a goal.
are A, B, C legals?
5. Situation: a player with the foot or with other parts of body but the hands tries a "Sombrero trick" and:
A. in the air he strikes the ball to an other direction.
B. in the air he strikes the ball and then he caught it.
C. in the air he caught it and goes on.
6. Ladies Gaelic football allows this:
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
So a player toss up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
What does mean this Rule: Showing the Ball or Turning Twice with the ball is NOT a foul providing it is done within the 4 step rule.
I mean what are the showing the ball or turning twice.
Thanks
I'll leave these to the resident ref but you have given PTSD with point 2. The way that rule is to be interpreted after the Clifford or Ganey (can't remember which) goal makes no sense. For a ball to be considered bounced it has to leave the hands, hit the ground and return immediately into the hand. As a result the the rule basically says you can continue to bounce the ball provided you never bounce the ball.
I'll go through some of these later, but the bounce rule has been in place forever, you could if your opponents let you literally bounce it up the pitch.
But to say it's easier than soloing it is bananas, the ball is more exposed and easier tackled if bouncing it up the pitch, one of the main reasons as to why you don't see it done on purpose
Not sure why anyone would think showing the ball (providing the ball isn't shifted from one hand to the other) or turning twice within the time it takes 4 steps is or should be a foul, theoretically I can turn 20 times (if I was a ballerina) in the time it takes to take four steps.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 12, 2024, 11:36:15 AMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 12, 2024, 11:12:56 AMThat's a good point.
It also reinforces my belief that the rule is wrong in that if you get an opportunity to shoot from a more advantageous position then you should not get a free regardless of the outcome.
It should be one or the other.
depends if you're shooting off balance i think
There's no advantage if he misses within the 5 seconds. So if he misses then within the 5 seconds, bring it back for the free, because in olden times the ref gives the free and they score from it. I'm not sure of the logic he had a chance but missed, tough?
The logic is that you don't get 2 attempts at a shot for a foul. You get 1.
That can be a free or let the play continue if the opportunity is deemed by the ref to be better than the original free.
A free is not a guaranteed score. If you don't take advantage of it then tough. The same should apply to shots that are deemed to be "better than the free".
There is an advantage if he misses in the 5 seconds. He just didn't take it.
I think it comes down to what is the advantage to be assessed against. Apologies if this doesn't make sense but it's a little difficult for me to explain.
Is the advantage to be compared to the free I.E are the team within 5 seconds better off than they would be if they had the free. If it's that then missing the shot for a point or not having a shot/clear advantage should result in the free. As should fouling the ball.
If the advantage is to be compared to the situation he was in then simply getting away is probably an advantage and any shot definitely is.
I think it should be somewhere between the two. I really don't like the idea of two shots at goal etc. At the same time I think the advantage has to be meaningful. I think we are trying to achieve some kind of cross between the rugby approach to advantage and the soccer approach. For me I think we should be far closer to the soccer approach.
On an aside I remember a ref in a club game a good few years ago now take a unique approach to the advantage rule. He played advantage on every foul if either team got an advantage. He shouted advantage and when challenged told the players I have to play on because one of the teams now has an advantage. It was bizarre.
I'm not sure I'm in agreement with how the 5 seconds thing actually works at the minute.
I think it should be the period of time the ref uses to see if an advantage presents itself. If it does then it's play on. Regardless of whether it is squandered or not.
Using your example there, I wouldn't be looking to see if a team are better off after 5 seconds but indeed if they were better off at any time during the 5 seconds.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 12, 2024, 11:51:28 AMThe logic is that you don't get 2 attempts at a shot for a foul. You get 1.
That can be a free or let the play continue if the opportunity is deemed by the ref to be better than the original free.
A free is not a guaranteed score. If you don't take advantage of it then tough. The same should apply to shots that are deemed to be "better than the free".
There is an advantage if he misses in the 5 seconds. He just didn't take it.
And that's your opinion and grand. But that's not how it's done or intended.
A free is not guaranteed but it's a better advantage than a missed shot.
A missed free isn't. And that's the point, you shouldn't be looking at the outcome.
The penalty for committing a foul near your own goal is that the opposition is presented with a scoring opportunity (a free). They are not given a score, just the opportunity to get one. The onus is entirely on them to capitalise on that. If they miss it, tough luck.
The advantage rule should allow them to make use of a better opportunity if it presents itself but again, the onus should be entirely on them to capitalise on it and if they miss it, tough luck.
For me, the main reason for the advantage rule is so that the awarding of a free kick is not a punishment to the fouled team.
And of course it's my opinion.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 12, 2024, 04:23:16 PMA missed free isn't. And that's the point, you shouldn't be looking at the outcome.
The penalty for committing a foul near your own goal is that the opposition is presented with a scoring opportunity (a free). They are not given a score, just the opportunity to get one. The onus is entirely on them to capitalise on that. If they miss it, tough luck.
The advantage rule should allow them to make use of a better opportunity if it presents itself but again, the onus should be entirely on them to capitalise on it and if they miss it, tough luck.
For me, the main reason for the advantage rule is so that the awarding of a free kick is not a punishment to the fouled team.
And of course it's my opinion.
From a personal perspective from playing as a defender for most of my playing days I'd have same opinion.
That said when I started to play up front I'd be looking my advantage, in essence my cake and eat it attitude.
But the rules are the rules.. lots of them need looked at tweaked to help..
I'd love a rule that would wipe out slabbering, but hey can't fix that side of things
I think the black card is under utilised in regards to that.
One today there- we had a kickout, Oisin O'Neill won it and was fouled and from the free he played the ball back to the goalkeeper. Is that allowed or should it have been blown up as no one else had touched the ball?
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 12, 2024, 09:57:06 PMOne today there- we had a kickout, Oisin O'Neill won it and was fouled and from the free he played the ball back to the goalkeeper. Is that allowed or should it have been blown up as no one else had touched the ball?
Perfectly legal. Free kick is a new phase of play
MR2, was coaching the U10's the other night and one of them just pulled the sliotar out of another's hand during the game at the end . I called a free and the wee bollox questioned me, but now I'm not sure if I was right.
Was he right?
Pretty sure you were right.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 12, 2024, 10:34:25 PMMR2, was coaching the U10's the other night and one of them just pulled the sliotar out of another's hand during the game at the end . I called a free and the wee bollox questioned me, but now I'm not sure if I was right.
Was he right?
Same as football, you can't snatch the ball out of another players hands.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 12, 2024, 09:57:06 PMOne today there- we had a kickout, Oisin O'Neill won it and was fouled and from the free he played the ball back to the goalkeeper. Is that allowed or should it have been blown up as no one else had touched the ball?
This is the problem, players fans and supporters not knowing simple rules...
Though I'll throw one at you. Player claims a kick out mark, ref blows for Mark, player claims mark, player plays it back to keeper, foul or not?
Quote from: Gianni on May 12, 2024, 10:47:35 AMHi men! I am Giovanni from Italy, I come from Rome. I am an amateur soccer player and now I discover this new sport, i.e. Gaelic Football.
I have already read all the rules but I still have doubts.
Ok, let's get started.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
2. Rule: 1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.. So a player could control the ball with one hand (or two?) and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
3. When a player tries to catch a ball in the air he may touch the ball several times with his hands as long as he has control of it. But could he continue to bounce the ball from his hand into the air as Hurling players do with stick and ball?
Rule: To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts
But, according to the rule, a player, once he touches the ball once in the air, cannot touch it a second or third time?
I believe as long as he can't control the ball the player could do it, but if we interpret the rule literally this wouldn't be legal, would it?
4. Situation: a player takes possession and hops the ball.
A. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces the ground, a posts or a player.
B. he flicks it to pass the ball to someone else.
C. he flicks it to score a goal.
are A, B, C legals?
5. Situation: a player with the foot or with other parts of body but the hands tries a "Sombrero trick" and:
A. in the air he strikes the ball to an other direction.
B. in the air he strikes the ball and then he caught it.
C. in the air he caught it and goes on.
6. Ladies Gaelic football allows this:
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
So a player toss up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
What does mean this Rule: Showing the Ball or Turning Twice with the ball is NOT a foul providing it is done within the 4 step rule.
I mean what are the showing the ball or turning twice.
Thanks
I add also these questions
Handpass
When a player makes a legal handpass (with one or two hands) he may do:
A. After he makes a legal handpass, can he catch or just touch the ball on the fly, without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player?
I imagine a scenario in which, to overcome an opponent, the player makes a legal hand pass, then goes around him, and finally catches the ball on the fly. But would it be legal?
B. After legal handpass, can he touch the ball with any part of his body (are arms also considered hands?) except his hands, without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player?
That is, imagine a player who makes a handpass and then hits the ball on the fly with a foot, a thigh or with the head or, much more spectacularly, with the chest, to pass the ball to a teammate or even to score a goal or a point. Would it be legal?
C. After a legal handpass, can the player touch the ball with any part of his body and then catch it with his hands?
Point with handpass
We know that to score a point is possible either by kicking or handpassing the ball over the crossbar. But with a handpass does the ball have to be hit with a closed fist or can it be hit with an open hand?
Now we have this:
(https://gaa-pathway-resources.com/images/skill_cards/gaa_skill_cards/fist_pass_skillcard_front.jpg)
A fist pass may be used to score a point, a Hand Pass may not.But in the GAA Rules we have it is legal to score a point with a handpass in which the ball is hit with both a fist and an open hand.
Rule:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who
is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents'
goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided
in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a
point with the open hand(s) or fist.Other question:
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open handBut when the ball is released or is bouncing or soccer juggling, i.e. I mean when the ball is not in contact with the hand, can it be stolen by touching it or grabbing it with both hands?
Sorry for my long time but I hope you can help me understand all my doubts.
Thanks
The Kerry minor goalie gave away a penalty last night for overcarrying.
I've never seen a goalie give away a penalty before for a technical foul.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 14, 2024, 09:40:47 AMThe Kerry minor goalie gave away a penalty last night for overcarrying.
I've never seen a goalie give away a penalty before for a technical foul.
Was the overcarrying all in the small square?
1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession
I would love to see some lad dribbling basketball style up the field and burying the ball into the back of the net.
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 14, 2024, 09:50:15 AM1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession
I would love to see some lad dribbling basketball style up the field and burying the ball into the back of the net.
The reason you don't see it is because he'd be tackled, the ball is more exposed, thus making it easier.
This does bring about some moans from the sidelines with cries of double bounce
Quote from: blanketattack on May 14, 2024, 09:40:47 AMThe Kerry minor goalie gave away a penalty last night for overcarrying.
I've never seen a goalie give away a penalty before for a technical foul.
Penalty only if it happened in the small square (technical foul) , same for any defending player. If he over carries in the big square it's a 13m free in, obviously aggressive fouls anywhere inside the small / big square is a penalty
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 14, 2024, 09:50:15 AM1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession
I would love to see some lad dribbling basketball style up the field and burying the ball into the back of the net.
But the question is:
how to stop the ball? I mean a player is trying to receive the ball but he wants to bounce it like in basketball, but how could he not caught the ball?
If he stops the ball with two hands, without catching it, is this considered a caught ball?
If he stops the ball with one hand?
How?
The rules are so vagues.
When no in 'control' of the ball it can be bounced all the way up the pitch, same as if a player in a tackle momentarily loses possession of the ball and regains it he's not recatching it, even though he 'had' it
Its vague and ultimately down to the ref to call and the players/sideline/supporters to give off ;)
I'd someone complain recently about player not being 13m from the ball and collecting it, he was claiming for a hop ball, I gave the free and of course, but, I was questioned throughout the game. This was a manager!
When they make people do the coaching courses do they do a rules test?
A ref once told me that a goalkeeper from a kickout can kick it more than once. So technically the keeper could just dribble the ball soccer style up the field from a kickout but he is not allowed to lift it.
Any of the resident referees able to confirm this?
Quote from: John Martin on May 14, 2024, 11:55:27 AMA ref once told me that a goalkeeper from a kickout can kick it more than once. So technically the keeper could just dribble the ball soccer style up the field from a kickout but he is not allowed to lift it.
Any of the resident referees able to confirm this?
That's true but once it leaves the 21 he can be dispossessed (legally)
So the reason you don't see it is because keepers are generally keepers for a reason, dribbling their food is about the height of their skills at dribbling ;)
Quote from: Gianni on May 13, 2024, 10:48:14 AMQuote from: Gianni on May 12, 2024, 10:47:35 AMHi men! I am Giovanni from Italy, I come from Rome. I am an amateur soccer player and now I discover this new sport, i.e. Gaelic Football.
I have already read all the rules but I still have doubts.
Ok, let's get started.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
2. Rule: 1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.. So a player could control the ball with one hand (or two?) and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
3. When a player tries to catch a ball in the air he may touch the ball several times with his hands as long as he has control of it. But could he continue to bounce the ball from his hand into the air as Hurling players do with stick and ball?
Rule: To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts
But, according to the rule, a player, once he touches the ball once in the air, cannot touch it a second or third time?
I believe as long as he can't control the ball the player could do it, but if we interpret the rule literally this wouldn't be legal, would it?
4. Situation: a player takes possession and hops the ball.
A. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces the ground, a posts or a player.
B. he flicks it to pass the ball to someone else.
C. he flicks it to score a goal.
are A, B, C legals?
5. Situation: a player with the foot or with other parts of body but the hands tries a "Sombrero trick" and:
A. in the air he strikes the ball to an other direction.
B. in the air he strikes the ball and then he caught it.
C. in the air he caught it and goes on.
6. Ladies Gaelic football allows this:
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
So a player toss up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
What does mean this Rule: Showing the Ball or Turning Twice with the ball is NOT a foul providing it is done within the 4 step rule.
I mean what are the showing the ball or turning twice.
Thanks
I add also these questions
Handpass
When a player makes a legal handpass (with one or two hands) he may do:
A. After he makes a legal handpass, can he catch or just touch the ball on the fly, without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player?
I imagine a scenario in which, to overcome an opponent, the player makes a legal hand pass, then goes around him, and finally catches the ball on the fly. But would it be legal?
B. After legal handpass, can he touch the ball with any part of his body (are arms also considered hands?) except his hands, without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player?
That is, imagine a player who makes a handpass and then hits the ball on the fly with a foot, a thigh or with the head or, much more spectacularly, with the chest, to pass the ball to a teammate or even to score a goal or a point. Would it be legal?
C. After a legal handpass, can the player touch the ball with any part of his body and then catch it with his hands?
Point with handpass
We know that to score a point is possible either by kicking or handpassing the ball over the crossbar. But with a handpass does the ball have to be hit with a closed fist or can it be hit with an open hand?
Now we have this:
(https://gaa-pathway-resources.com/images/skill_cards/gaa_skill_cards/fist_pass_skillcard_front.jpg)
A fist pass may be used to score a point, a Hand Pass may not.
But in the GAA Rules we have it is legal to score a point with a handpass in which the ball is hit with both a fist and an open hand.
Rule:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who
is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents'
goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided
in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a
point with the open hand(s) or fist.
Other question:
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand
But when the ball is released or is bouncing or soccer juggling, i.e. I mean when the ball is not in contact with the hand, can it be stolen by touching it or grabbing it with both hands?
Sorry for my long time but I hope you can help me understand all my doubts. We can't play without understanding all of this.
Thanks
Could anyone help me understand these doubts?
Thanks
Quote from: Gianni on May 15, 2024, 10:24:42 AMQuote from: Gianni on May 13, 2024, 10:48:14 AMQuote from: Gianni on May 12, 2024, 10:47:35 AMHi men! I am Giovanni from Italy, I come from Rome. I am an amateur soccer player and now I discover this new sport, i.e. Gaelic Football.
I have already read all the rules but I still have doubts.
Ok, let's get started.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
2. Rule: 1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.. So a player could control the ball with one hand (or two?) and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
3. When a player tries to catch a ball in the air he may touch the ball several times with his hands as long as he has control of it. But could he continue to bounce the ball from his hand into the air as Hurling players do with stick and ball?
Rule: To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts
But, according to the rule, a player, once he touches the ball once in the air, cannot touch it a second or third time?
I believe as long as he can't control the ball the player could do it, but if we interpret the rule literally this wouldn't be legal, would it?
4. Situation: a player takes possession and hops the ball.
A. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces the ground, a posts or a player.
B. he flicks it to pass the ball to someone else.
C. he flicks it to score a goal.
are A, B, C legals?
5. Situation: a player with the foot or with other parts of body but the hands tries a "Sombrero trick" and:
A. in the air he strikes the ball to an other direction.
B. in the air he strikes the ball and then he caught it.
C. in the air he caught it and goes on.
6. Ladies Gaelic football allows this:
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
So a player toss up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
What does mean this Rule: Showing the Ball or Turning Twice with the ball is NOT a foul providing it is done within the 4 step rule.
I mean what are the showing the ball or turning twice.
Thanks
I add also these questions
Handpass
When a player makes a legal handpass (with one or two hands) he may do:
A. After he makes a legal handpass, can he catch or just touch the ball on the fly, without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player?
I imagine a scenario in which, to overcome an opponent, the player makes a legal hand pass, then goes around him, and finally catches the ball on the fly. But would it be legal?
B. After legal handpass, can he touch the ball with any part of his body (are arms also considered hands?) except his hands, without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player?
That is, imagine a player who makes a handpass and then hits the ball on the fly with a foot, a thigh or with the head or, much more spectacularly, with the chest, to pass the ball to a teammate or even to score a goal or a point. Would it be legal?
C. After a legal handpass, can the player touch the ball with any part of his body and then catch it with his hands?
Point with handpass
We know that to score a point is possible either by kicking or handpassing the ball over the crossbar. But with a handpass does the ball have to be hit with a closed fist or can it be hit with an open hand?
Now we have this:
(https://gaa-pathway-resources.com/images/skill_cards/gaa_skill_cards/fist_pass_skillcard_front.jpg)
A fist pass may be used to score a point, a Hand Pass may not.
But in the GAA Rules we have it is legal to score a point with a handpass in which the ball is hit with both a fist and an open hand.
Rule:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who
is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents'
goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided
in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a
point with the open hand(s) or fist.
Other question:
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand
But when the ball is released or is bouncing or soccer juggling, i.e. I mean when the ball is not in contact with the hand, can it be stolen by touching it or grabbing it with both hands?
Sorry for my long time but I hope you can help me understand all my doubts. We can't play without understanding all of this.
Thanks
Could anyone help me understand these doubts?
Thanks
Can we assume all the passes are legal!!
A. Yes as long as the ball bounces before collecting
B. Yes
C. Yes as long the hands don't touch the ball on the ground
Point with handpass : open or closed fist are both allowed
Quick question on age eligibility. In lgfa a child can play one go games age group above their own group (up to u13 in Tyrone). And 2 levels above their group at competitive level - u14 upwards. Would a 12 year old who's playing u13 go games and u14 competitive, be eligible to play u16 as well? As Theres no older go game age group, would she be allowed to play the 2 age groups above at competitive games?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 15, 2024, 11:35:59 AMQuick question on age eligibility. In lgfa a child can play one go games age group above their own group (up to u13 in Tyrone). And 2 levels above their group at competitive level - u14 upwards. Would a 12 year old who's playing u13 go games and u14 competitive, be eligible to play u16 as well? As Theres no older go game age group, would she be allowed to play the 2 age groups above at competitive games?
From the 2023 Official Guide:
Underage players can only play in their own age group at Inter-County level for U-14 and
U-16 (Effective 1st January 2024).
At County U-18 level, players may play in their own age group and one grade above. Over
18 grade is deemed an adult grade.
At club level, underage players can only play in their own age group and two grades above
it with grades deemed as Under 12, 14, 16 and 18. All grades Under 10 can only play one
grade above. An Under 8 can play Under 8 and 10. An Under 10 can play Under 10 and
12. An Under 12 can play Under 12, 14, 16. An Under 14 can play Under 14, 16 and 18. An
Under 16 can play Under 16, 18 and Adult and Under 18 can play Under 18 and Adult.At Inter-County and Club level, players must firstly play and train with their own age group.
Personally, I would have serious reservations with an u12 (potentially P7) playing at u16 level (5th years) but it isn't against the rules. I don't think go-games is a factor as the LGFA deem the age groups at U12, u14 etc.
Quote from: JoG2 on May 15, 2024, 10:47:14 AMQuote from: Gianni on May 15, 2024, 10:24:42 AMQuote from: Gianni on May 13, 2024, 10:48:14 AMQuote from: Gianni on May 12, 2024, 10:47:35 AMHi men! I am Giovanni from Italy, I come from Rome. I am an amateur soccer player and now I discover this new sport, i.e. Gaelic Football.
I have already read all the rules but I still have doubts.
Ok, let's get started.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
2. Rule: 1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.. So a player could control the ball with one hand (or two?) and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
3. When a player tries to catch a ball in the air he may touch the ball several times with his hands as long as he has control of it. But could he continue to bounce the ball from his hand into the air as Hurling players do with stick and ball?
Rule: To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts
But, according to the rule, a player, once he touches the ball once in the air, cannot touch it a second or third time?
I believe as long as he can't control the ball the player could do it, but if we interpret the rule literally this wouldn't be legal, would it?
4. Situation: a player takes possession and hops the ball.
A. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces the ground, a posts or a player.
B. he flicks it to pass the ball to someone else.
C. he flicks it to score a goal.
are A, B, C legals?
5. Situation: a player with the foot or with other parts of body but the hands tries a "Sombrero trick" and:
A. in the air he strikes the ball to an other direction.
B. in the air he strikes the ball and then he caught it.
C. in the air he caught it and goes on.
6. Ladies Gaelic football allows this:
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
So a player toss up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
What does mean this Rule: Showing the Ball or Turning Twice with the ball is NOT a foul providing it is done within the 4 step rule.
I mean what are the showing the ball or turning twice.
Thanks
I add also these questions
Handpass
When a player makes a legal handpass (with one or two hands) he may do:
A. After he makes a legal handpass, can he catch or just touch the ball on the fly, without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player?
I imagine a scenario in which, to overcome an opponent, the player makes a legal hand pass, then goes around him, and finally catches the ball on the fly. But would it be legal?
B. After legal handpass, can he touch the ball with any part of his body (are arms also considered hands?) except his hands, without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player?
That is, imagine a player who makes a handpass and then hits the ball on the fly with a foot, a thigh or with the head or, much more spectacularly, with the chest, to pass the ball to a teammate or even to score a goal or a point. Would it be legal?
C. After a legal handpass, can the player touch the ball with any part of his body and then catch it with his hands?
Point with handpass
We know that to score a point is possible either by kicking or handpassing the ball over the crossbar. But with a handpass does the ball have to be hit with a closed fist or can it be hit with an open hand?
Now we have this:
(https://gaa-pathway-resources.com/images/skill_cards/gaa_skill_cards/fist_pass_skillcard_front.jpg)
A fist pass may be used to score a point, a Hand Pass may not.
But in the GAA Rules we have it is legal to score a point with a handpass in which the ball is hit with both a fist and an open hand.
Rule:
A player on the team attacking a goal and who
is in possession of the ball may not score:
(i) by carrying the ball over his opponents'
goal line;
(ii) a goal with his hands except as provided
in Rule 1.2, Exception (ii) but may score a
point with the open hand(s) or fist.
Other question:
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand
But when the ball is released or is bouncing or soccer juggling, i.e. I mean when the ball is not in contact with the hand, can it be stolen by touching it or grabbing it with both hands?
Sorry for my long time but I hope you can help me understand all my doubts. We can't play without understanding all of this.
Thanks
Could anyone help me understand these doubts?
Thanks
Can we assume all the passes are legal!!
A. Yes as long as the ball bounces before collecting
B. Yes
C. Yes as long the hands don't touch the ball on the ground
Point with handpass : open or closed fist are both allowed
Are you sure?
QuoteYes as long as the ball bounces before collecting
A. So if a player makes a legal handpass he can only touch the ball again if it hits the ground, right? But the ball will be legally touchable even when it touches a post or another player, correct? However, if the player makes a handpass and catches the ball without it having touched the ground, a post or another player, would it be a foul?
QuoteYes
B. So if a player makes a hand pass could he touch the ball with any part of his body except his hands without waiting for the ball to touch the ground, a post or another player? We have a situation where the player handpasses and then, without the ball touching the ground, touches the ball again on the fly with his head, chest or leg, would it be legal as long as he doesn't touch it with his hands?
QuoteYes as long the hands doesn't touch the ball on the ground
C. But in this situation we have a player who makes a handpass then he touches the ball with any part of his body except his hands and then catches or touches the ball again with his hands. Wouldn't it still be a foul since the ball never touched the ground, a post or another player in the passage from hands to body parts to hands?
Also, does the term hands mean the hand or also the arm?
QuotePoint with handpass
But in the card it says that the point can only be scored with a fist pass but not with a handpass, in the GAA rules, however, it is not very clear, it only says that you could do it with an open hand and with a closed hand. Why this difference?
What do you think of my other questions written in red that no one has answered yet?
Could anyone else help me understand my doubts?
Thanks
Quote from: cornerback on May 15, 2024, 11:58:03 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on May 15, 2024, 11:35:59 AMQuick question on age eligibility. In lgfa a child can play one go games age group above their own group (up to u13 in Tyrone). And 2 levels above their group at competitive level - u14 upwards. Would a 12 year old who's playing u13 go games and u14 competitive, be eligible to play u16 as well? As Theres no older go game age group, would she be allowed to play the 2 age groups above at competitive games?
From the 2023 Official Guide:
Underage players can only play in their own age group at Inter-County level for U-14 and
U-16 (Effective 1st January 2024).
At County U-18 level, players may play in their own age group and one grade above. Over
18 grade is deemed an adult grade.
At club level, underage players can only play in their own age group and two grades above
it with grades deemed as Under 12, 14, 16 and 18. All grades Under 10 can only play one
grade above. An Under 8 can play Under 8 and 10. An Under 10 can play Under 10 and
12. An Under 12 can play Under 12, 14, 16. An Under 14 can play Under 14, 16 and 18. An
Under 16 can play Under 16, 18 and Adult and Under 18 can play Under 18 and Adult.
At Inter-County and Club level, players must firstly play and train with their own age group.
Personally, I would have serious reservations with an u12 (potentially P7) playing at u16 level (5th years) but it isn't against the rules. I don't think go-games is a factor as the LGFA deem the age groups at U12, u14 etc.
A 12yo can play U16 but it depends on when the turned 12. If they turned 12 on or before the 31st of Dec 2011 then they're eligible to play U16, but ineligible to play U12.
If they turned 12 on or after 1st of Jan 2012 then they're still eligible to play U12 and ineligible to play U16.
Bottom line is that if a kid is eligible to play U12 in that year then they're ineligible to play U16 that same year.
Gianni - Google GAA Official Guide 2024 part 2. Download the pdf. Football rules from page 60 to 122.
Bare in mind as we've seen on here, the referee's handbook within the GAA Learning Portal has more important detail on some rules #minefield
Other question:
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand
But when the ball is released or is bouncing or soccer juggling, i.e. I mean when the ball is not in contact with the hand, can it be stolen by touching it or grabbing it with both hands?
You can't wrestle the ball away from an opponent if he has it in his possession (both hands) if the ball is open/unprotected then it can be tackled/flicked punched away or taken cleanly
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2024, 10:57:28 AMQuote from: cornerback on May 15, 2024, 11:58:03 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on May 15, 2024, 11:35:59 AMQuick question on age eligibility. In lgfa a child can play one go games age group above their own group (up to u13 in Tyrone). And 2 levels above their group at competitive level - u14 upwards. Would a 12 year old who's playing u13 go games and u14 competitive, be eligible to play u16 as well? As Theres no older go game age group, would she be allowed to play the 2 age groups above at competitive games?
From the 2023 Official Guide:
Underage players can only play in their own age group at Inter-County level for U-14 and
U-16 (Effective 1st January 2024).
At County U-18 level, players may play in their own age group and one grade above. Over
18 grade is deemed an adult grade.
At club level, underage players can only play in their own age group and two grades above
it with grades deemed as Under 12, 14, 16 and 18. All grades Under 10 can only play one
grade above. An Under 8 can play Under 8 and 10. An Under 10 can play Under 10 and
12. An Under 12 can play Under 12, 14, 16. An Under 14 can play Under 14, 16 and 18. An
Under 16 can play Under 16, 18 and Adult and Under 18 can play Under 18 and Adult.
At Inter-County and Club level, players must firstly play and train with their own age group.
Personally, I would have serious reservations with an u12 (potentially P7) playing at u16 level (5th years) but it isn't against the rules. I don't think go-games is a factor as the LGFA deem the age groups at U12, u14 etc.
A 12yo can play U16 but it depends on when the turned 12. If they turned 12 on or before the 31st of Dec 2011 then they're eligible to play U16, but ineligible to play U12.
If they turned 12 on or after 1st of Jan 2012 then they're still eligible to play U12 and ineligible to play U16.
Bottom line is that if a kid is eligible to play U12 in that year then they're ineligible to play U16 that same year.
I think you're looking at the boys Johnny. The ladies is different from my understanding. In that at underage you can play your age group and two levels above.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2024, 11:53:52 AMQuote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2024, 10:57:28 AMQuote from: cornerback on May 15, 2024, 11:58:03 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on May 15, 2024, 11:35:59 AMQuick question on age eligibility. In lgfa a child can play one go games age group above their own group (up to u13 in Tyrone). And 2 levels above their group at competitive level - u14 upwards. Would a 12 year old who's playing u13 go games and u14 competitive, be eligible to play u16 as well? As Theres no older go game age group, would she be allowed to play the 2 age groups above at competitive games?
From the 2023 Official Guide:
Underage players can only play in their own age group at Inter-County level for U-14 and
U-16 (Effective 1st January 2024).
At County U-18 level, players may play in their own age group and one grade above. Over
18 grade is deemed an adult grade.
At club level, underage players can only play in their own age group and two grades above
it with grades deemed as Under 12, 14, 16 and 18. All grades Under 10 can only play one
grade above. An Under 8 can play Under 8 and 10. An Under 10 can play Under 10 and
12. An Under 12 can play Under 12, 14, 16. An Under 14 can play Under 14, 16 and 18. An
Under 16 can play Under 16, 18 and Adult and Under 18 can play Under 18 and Adult.
At Inter-County and Club level, players must firstly play and train with their own age group.
Personally, I would have serious reservations with an u12 (potentially P7) playing at u16 level (5th years) but it isn't against the rules. I don't think go-games is a factor as the LGFA deem the age groups at U12, u14 etc.
A 12yo can play U16 but it depends on when the turned 12. If they turned 12 on or before the 31st of Dec 2011 then they're eligible to play U16, but ineligible to play U12.
If they turned 12 on or after 1st of Jan 2012 then they're still eligible to play U12 and ineligible to play U16.
Bottom line is that if a kid is eligible to play U12 in that year then they're ineligible to play U16 that same year.
I think you're looking at the boys Johnny. The ladies is different from my understanding. In that at underage you can play your age group and two levels above.
If they turned 12 on 31st Dec 2011 they'd be doing well to get away with playing u16 ;D
Yeah, the bit I highlighted above is from the LGFA official guide.
Quote from: JoG2 on May 16, 2024, 10:57:46 AMGianni - Google GAA Official Guide 2024 part 2. Download the pdf. Football rules from page 60 to 122.
The problem is that the manual does not help solve all my situations that I have written. I have already read it but it didn't help me.
QuoteBare in mind as we've seen on here, the referee's handbook within the GAA Learning Portal has more important detail on some rules #minefield
Is there a referee manual? Maybe a casebook but where could I find it?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2024, 11:02:12 AMOther question:
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand
But when the ball is released or is bouncing or soccer juggling, i.e. I mean when the ball is not in contact with the hand, can it be stolen by touching it or grabbing it with both hands?
You can't wrestle the ball away from an opponent if he has it in his possession (both hands) if the ball is open/unprotected then it can be tackled/flicked punched away or taken cleanly
So if a player holds the ball with two hands or even with one hand and his chest, can the ball only be stolen with an open hand? I notice a real difficulty in stealing the ball in this game, because being able to hold the ball in your hands makes it almost impossible to steal the ball, because in football there is more precarious control, whereas in rugby the control is absolute but there is tackle.
What do you think of my other doubts?
Please could anyone explain me what do
Showing the Ball and
Turning Twice with the ball mean?
Quote from: Gianni on May 17, 2024, 10:27:10 AMQuote from: JoG2 on May 16, 2024, 10:57:46 AMGianni - Google GAA Official Guide 2024 part 2. Download the pdf. Football rules from page 60 to 122.
The problem is that the manual does not help solve all my situations that I have written. I have already read it but it didn't help me.
QuoteBare in mind as we've seen on here, the referee's handbook within the GAA Learning Portal has more important detail on some rules #minefield
Is there a referee manual? Maybe a casebook but where could I find it?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2024, 11:02:12 AMOther question:
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand
But when the ball is released or is bouncing or soccer juggling, i.e. I mean when the ball is not in contact with the hand, can it be stolen by touching it or grabbing it with both hands?
You can't wrestle the ball away from an opponent if he has it in his possession (both hands) if the ball is open/unprotected then it can be tackled/flicked punched away or taken cleanly
So if a player holds the ball with two hands or even with one hand and his chest, can the ball only be stolen with an open hand? I notice a real difficulty in stealing the ball in this game, because being able to hold the ball in your hands makes it almost impossible to steal the ball, because in football there is more precarious control, whereas in rugby the control is absolute but there is tackle.
What do you think of my other doubts?
Please could anyone explain me what do Showing the Ball and Turning Twice with the ball mean?
Holds with two hands and if wrestled from the hands its a free for the person in possession of the ball. If the ball is 'popped' from his possession if he was holding it with one hand or two, with an open hand that's ok, the term stripping or wrestling it from possession is what we are looking at, that's a foul.
Gave a free the other day, lad won the ball but made contact with the player
first around the neck. Had I been standing on the other side of that tackle I would not have called the free as from the other angle it would have looked like a clean take of the ball. But because of my positioning I was lucky enough to see that
Quote from: Gianni on May 17, 2024, 10:27:10 AMQuote from: JoG2 on May 16, 2024, 10:57:46 AMGianni - Google GAA Official Guide 2024 part 2. Download the pdf. Football rules from page 60 to 122.
The problem is that the manual does not help solve all my situations that I have written. I have already read it but it didn't help me.
QuoteBare in mind as we've seen on here, the referee's handbook within the GAA Learning Portal has more important detail on some rules #minefield
Is there a referee manual? Maybe a casebook but where could I find it?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2024, 11:02:12 AMOther question:
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand
But when the ball is released or is bouncing or soccer juggling, i.e. I mean when the ball is not in contact with the hand, can it be stolen by touching it or grabbing it with both hands?
You can't wrestle the ball away from an opponent if he has it in his possession (both hands) if the ball is open/unprotected then it can be tackled/flicked punched away or taken cleanly
So if a player holds the ball with two hands or even with one hand and his chest, can the ball only be stolen with an open hand? I notice a real difficulty in stealing the ball in this game, because being able to hold the ball in your hands makes it almost impossible to steal the ball, because in football there is more precarious control, whereas in rugby the control is absolute but there is tackle.
What do you think of my other doubts?
Please could anyone explain me what do Showing the Ball and Turning Twice with the ball mean?
Showing the ball and turning twice are specifically mentioned because there was always a common misconception that they were a foul.
"Showing the ball" is when the ball handler moves the ball away from their body whilst still in their hand/s, usually as a dummy/fake to deceive an opponent. A nuance to understand with this, is that some more skillful players might do this with one hand. Show the ball to one side and then step to the opposite side in an attempt to evade an opponent. Again this is perfectly fine. However when passing the ball from one hand and back to the other then the "original" hand needs to maintain contact with the ball as it moves from one hand to the other. You can't throw the ball from one hand to the other. There needs to be an exchange from one hand to the other or a point, no matter how brief, where both hands are on the ball. I believe the lack of understanding of this led to the belief "showing the ball" is a foul play.
"Turning twice" is generally a situation where a player attempts to evade an opponent by going one direction and then turning the opposite way and going a different direction, without ever playing the ball (taking a bounce or solo.) Again, this is perfectly fine. Generally, this action will border on the 4 steps rule (which isn't policed stringently in any case.) Somehow it developed into a scenario where simply "turning twice" was seen as a foul in itself, which was never the case.
These are generally fouls when its against your own team and when it is your team is doing it, its not a foul.
There in finishes the lessons
Well, let's go in order.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hand/s, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with his hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
Quote from: Lucifer on May 17, 2024, 11:55:08 AM"Showing the ball" is when the ball handler moves the ball away from their body whilst still in their hand/s, usually as a dummy/fake to deceive an opponent. A nuance to understand with this, is that some more skillful players might do this with one hand. Show the ball to one side and then step to the opposite side in an attempt to evade an opponent. Again this is perfectly fine. However when passing the ball from one hand and back to the other then the "original" hand needs to maintain contact with the ball as it moves from one hand to the other. You can't throw the ball from one hand to the other. There needs to be an exchange from one hand to the other or a point, no matter how brief, where both hands are on the ball. I believe the lack of understanding of this led to the belief "showing the ball" is a foul play.
"Turning twice" is generally a situation where a player attempts to evade an opponent by going one direction and then turning the opposite way and going a different direction, without ever playing the ball (taking a bounce or solo.) Again, this is perfectly fine. Generally, this action will border on the 4 steps rule (which isn't policed stringently in any case.
So is this Showing the ball?
0.26
Instead Turning twice is 0.51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72hTyTj2bao
Am I right?
Thanks
There was a incident in the Derry Galway game were a Galway player in possession was "ushered" over the sideline by a couple of Derry players. McQullian pointed his flag in favour of the Galway player and indicated a pushing motion with this hands. I didn't hear if the referee blew his whistle at this point but is it not the linesmans job to indicate which way the line ball is to go and he should not be calling the freekick??
Quote from: cornerback on May 20, 2024, 10:37:16 AMThere was a incident in the Derry Galway game were a Galway player in possession was "ushered" over the sideline by a couple of Derry players. McQullian pointed his flag in favour of the Galway player and indicated a pushing motion with this hands. I didn't hear if the referee blew his whistle at this point but is it not the linesmans job to indicate which way the line ball is to go and he should not be calling the freekick??
Yeah would have thought he can advise the ref that there was a foul but it's the refs call.
Quote from: cornerback on May 20, 2024, 10:37:16 AMThere was a incident in the Derry Galway game were a Galway player in possession was "ushered" over the sideline by a couple of Derry players. McQullian pointed his flag in favour of the Galway player and indicated a pushing motion with this hands. I didn't hear if the referee blew his whistle at this point but is it not the linesmans job to indicate which way the line ball is to go and he should not be calling the freekick??
The linesman will advise the ref on off the ball incidents, he will do the line and he may even stand in behind a free and help the umpire on a wide or a point call.. The ref alone decides, he can take advise, but it will be his call
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 20, 2024, 01:43:03 PMQuote from: cornerback on May 20, 2024, 10:37:16 AMThere was a incident in the Derry Galway game were a Galway player in possession was "ushered" over the sideline by a couple of Derry players. McQullian pointed his flag in favour of the Galway player and indicated a pushing motion with this hands. I didn't hear if the referee blew his whistle at this point but is it not the linesmans job to indicate which way the line ball is to go and he should not be calling the freekick??
The linesman will advise the ref on off the ball incidents, he will do the line and he may even stand in behind a free and help the umpire on a wide or a point call.. The ref alone decides, he can take advise, but it will be his call
It's his call yes, but the wording in the rule book has changed. Historically the linesman would have called lined decisions and off the ball stuff, but can now alert the ref to any incident the ref may not have seen on or off the ball
Quote from: JoG2 on May 20, 2024, 03:08:32 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 20, 2024, 01:43:03 PMQuote from: cornerback on May 20, 2024, 10:37:16 AMThere was a incident in the Derry Galway game were a Galway player in possession was "ushered" over the sideline by a couple of Derry players. McQullian pointed his flag in favour of the Galway player and indicated a pushing motion with this hands. I didn't hear if the referee blew his whistle at this point but is it not the linesmans job to indicate which way the line ball is to go and he should not be calling the freekick??
The linesman will advise the ref on off the ball incidents, he will do the line and he may even stand in behind a free and help the umpire on a wide or a point call.. The ref alone decides, he can take advise, but it will be his call
It's his call yes, but the wording in the rule book has changed. Historically the linesman would have called lined decisions and off the ball stuff, but can now alert the ref to any incident the ref may not have seen on or off the ball
But he can't stop play like soccer.. the ref can still regardless of what the linesman says or motions (as in this case) do his own thing
Could anyone help me understand these rules? Please! I beg you! I'm also willing to pay.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
2. Rule: 1.5 When the ball has not been caught, it may be bounced more than once in succession.. So a player could control the ball with one hand (or two?) and play it basketball style as far as he wants? It would be much easier than soloing so how come we don't see it? The reason I expect is that 'caught' does not infer with both hands?
3. When a player tries to catch a ball in the air he may touch the ball several times with his hands as long as he has control of it. But could he continue to bounce the ball from his hand into the air as Hurling players do with stick and ball?
Rule: To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts
But, according to the rule, a player, once he touches the ball once in the air, cannot touch it a second or third time?
I believe as long as he can't control the ball the player could do it, but if we interpret the rule literally this wouldn't be legal, would it?
4. Situation: a player takes possession and hops the ball.
A. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces the ground, a posts or a player.
B. he flicks it to pass the ball to someone else.
C. he flicks it to score a goal.
are A, B, C legals?
5. Situation: a player with the foot or with other parts of body but the hands tries a "Sombrero trick" and:
A. in the air he strikes the ball with hand/s to an other direction.
B. in the air he strikes the ball with hand/s and then he caught it.
C. in the air he caught it with hand/s and goes on.
6. Ladies Gaelic football allows this:
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
So a player toss up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
What does play it off mean
Thanks
A B C are all illegal, you can't throw the ball, not sure what the D means/is.
1. When the player is in possession of the ball, the ball is held in his hands, he could:
A. throw the ball in the air and catch it again with your hands? I think not, right?
B. throw the ball in the air, hit it with any part of the body except arms and hands and then catch it in the hands? I don't think so, am I right?
C. throw the ball and hit it with any part of the body, maybe like someone throws the ball in the air and then hits it with his head, legal?
D. Bringing the ball with the hands at head height and then, without either throwing or releasing it, hitting the ball with the head or any part of the body except the hands, legal?
Question 2 you can 'basketball' the ball all the way up the pitch, as you have not taken the ball in with both hands or in 'control' of the ball, not used as a play as the ball is exposed and easy to tackle
These questions are obscure as are the rules. question 3 .. You can't switch the ball from hand to hand when in possession, if not fully in possession you can touch it as many times as you want in the 'air' if in possession of the ball he can't basketball style the ball up the pitch, as he's in possession of the ball.
Question 4. He hops the ball and in flight can 'flick' it or off load it as he's not entirely in 'possession of the ball, its not a definite hand pass, this can be seen when someone coming in is making a tackle on a player and he offloads the ball quickly, he can't have possession of the ball with both hands and then flick it, as it would be illegal. The same would apply to 'flicking' it into the net for a goal, he can't hop the ball up and punch it into the net 'deliberately' if it looks like he's lost possession or the ball has come 'loose' from a tackle then that's ok. Possession with both hands and 'throwing' it up is illegal.
A point on this that I wouldn't be too sure of is if he toe taps the ball up doesn't regain possession with both hands and punches it into the net then that could be legal. As he never retained possession of the ball form the hop.
Question 5. anyone on the pitch that does the Sombrero trick (had to google what it was) I'd gladly turn a blind eye and let the defender mill him. but on the rules of play he can do all three. As he's not in possession
question 6. I don't do ladies games..
You can send that £100 via paypal ;)
I can't see any reason why a toe tap and punch/flick to the net would be illegal, and under what rule would you penalise a player for punching to the net after a player has bounced on the ground? I appreciate you mention "deliberate" but these are both scenarios I always considered legal regardless of any intention. I've never seen anything to specifically cater for it in the rules, and as such, that deems it legal to me. However I could have missed it. I'm fully aware a referee is very likely to blow either as a foul (especially a bounce and flick to the net) as it is such an unusual scenario that they may not have considered the rules for it until they are faced with it!
Gianni, a lot of the questions you raised there were probably not answered because they are of no benefit. Nobody, playing seriously, would try these. It's probably easier to understand the rules by watching the games and then applying the rules to it, rather than the other way around. Because if you are applying a strict interpretation of the rules to how the game is actually played, it will get very confusing very quickly!
Quote from: Lucifer on June 07, 2024, 12:26:01 PMI can't see any reason why a toe tap and punch/flick to the net would be illegal, and under what rule would you penalise a player for punching to the net after a player has bounced on the ground? I appreciate you mention "deliberate" but these are both scenarios I always considered legal regardless of any intention. I've never seen anything to specifically cater for it in the rules, and as such, that deems it legal to me. However I could have missed it. I'm fully aware a referee is very likely to blow either as a foul (especially a bounce and flick to the net) as it is such an unusual scenario that they may not have considered the rules for it until they are faced with it!
Gianni, a lot of the questions you raised there were probably not answered because they are of no benefit. Nobody, playing seriously, would try these. It's probably easier to understand the rules by watching the games and then applying the rules to it, rather than the other way around. Because if you are applying a strict interpretation of the rules to how the game is actually played, it will get very confusing very quickly!
I've mentioned 'in possession' a few times to make my point, the one on the goal, I did say I have questions over it myself and would apply the rules at the time as I seen it, if I felt he was out of control of the ball then no probs, if he bounces and retrieves the ball and then flicks, no goal, the grey area is bouncing it down to retrieve it and then flicking ball into net... That goes for toe tapping and not taking backing into hand before flicking it.
Logically its legal, sure who applies logic ;D
Quotenot sure what the D means/is.
I mean holding the ball with hand/s and then hitting It with the head, should it be not legal? Is throwing the ball?
QuoteQuestion 2 you can 'basketball' the ball all the way up the pitch, as you have not taken the ball in with both hands or in 'control' of the ball, not used as a play as the ball is exposed and easy to tackle
So if you stop the ball with hand/s buy not catch It could you bounce the ball?
QuoteThese questions are obscure as are the rules. question 3 .. You can't switch the ball from hand to hand when in possession, if not fully in possession you can touch it as many times as you want in the 'air' if in possession of the ball he can't basketball style the ball up the pitch, as he's in possession of the ball.
I mean without catching the ball in flight you keep bounce the ball in air, like juggling, with one hand like this:
(https://images4.imagebam.com/1d/69/f8/METXAV2_o.jpg)
Or with two hands like this:
(https://images4.imagebam.com/7f/09/2d/METXAV4_o.jpg)
Regarding this aspect of the rules, i.e. dribbling like in basketball, I have read several ideas on this forum about it.
Those who say it would be legal:
Quote from: tyroneman on August 13, 2009, 06:03:00 PMMy understanding is that you can hop the ball as many times as you want to gain control of it initially. Up to ref then to decide when you deemed to have control
Quote from: Louth Exile on August 14, 2009, 12:06:03 AMQuote from: David McKeown on August 13, 2009, 04:54:25 PMMy understanding is that you were correct until last year or the year before when they changed the interpretation on the rule so that even if your attempting to control the ball referees are supposed to now award a free against
Do you know, was it a foul "under the old rule" if you changed the bouncing hand?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on August 13, 2009, 05:43:25 PMDoes that mean then that under the "old rules" that you could bounce the ball basketball style the whole length of the pitch?
Technically yes, but you try doing that against 15 Meathmen!!
Quote from: Hardy on August 14, 2009, 10:18:11 AMThis is all the Official Guide says abut it - interpret as you will:
Rule 1.5: When the ball has not been caught, it may be
bounced more than once in succession.
Rune 4.6 (under technical fouls): To bounce the ball
more than once consecutively after catching it.
It doesn't mention anything about control - only catching the ball. So I'd interpret that as allowing a basketball type dribble the length of the field if you fancy trying it. The Meathmen couldn't do a thing about it these days, Louth Exile without provoking a concerto of multicoloured card waving.
Those who consider it illegal.
QuoteNot really, you still couldn't be 'not in possession' for the whole length of the pitch, technically or otherwise. In practice, the ref will give you three bounces max (maybe four), and if you haven't managed to control it by then and have it in your possession, you'll be whistled up for overcarrying. Unless you're playing in a snowstorm.
QuoteI vaguely recall some rule change alright or talk of it, can you or anyone confirm this ?
up until then it was allowed to bounce the ball (I deem a 'hop' the action of a ball that is under control) was allowed a few times until the player brought the ball under control.
I actually recall thinkig about this some 20 years ago to see if I would actually use this to solo up the field a wee bit while feigning lack of control.
Realised this was stupid and thought better of it.
A decent ref would spot when its under control anyhow, but if that rule had not been applied as DMcKeown says, then the ref was incorrect awarding a free against gardiner on sunday.
This, however, is doubtful.
Quote from: Hardy on August 14, 2009, 10:18:11 AMThis is all the Official Guide says abut it - interpret as you will:
Rule 1.5: When the ball has not been caught, it may be
bounced more than once in succession.
Rune 4.6 (under technical fouls): To bounce the ball
more than once consecutively after catching it.
It doesn't mention anything about control - only catching the ball. So I'd interpret that as allowing a basketball type dribble the length of the field if you fancy trying it. The Meathmen couldn't do a thing about it these days, Louth Exile without provoking a concerto of multicoloured card waving.
Technically the rule is poor written. What constitutes possession? If I stop the ball from the side is it caught?
Possession is when you hold the ball, in either one hand or two. It's very similar to basketball in terms of dribbling, in that the dribble should technically end if the ball is held in any way at all (however this is now farcical in basketball where it just isn't called until it is ridiculously obvious.) However no player ever intentionally uses a basketball dribble, it's virtually always a means to retrieve possession when they aren't able to collect the ball in their hands after a bounce/solo/pass etc. A player will always take the ball into their hand/s if they can.
I don't understand why you are getting so caught up in these small nuances of the rules, I'm not sure it's much benefit to you!
Well let's go in order.
A.
The problem with the rules here is that there is no definition of what a player in possession of the ball is.
Not everyone agrees that a player can dribble the ball like basketball. Infact the definition of caught is to keep the ball or to keep the ball from falling to the ground, I don't remeber verbatim. So if a player stops the ball with one hand to the side, he has technically caught the ball.
I mean when you can dribble the ball basketball style, not having caught the ball, and when you couldn't.
If you catch the ball with two hands? Or when? In basketball if you catch the ball then you can bounces the ball. Here not? If a player stops the ball, but but he doesn't catch the ball, but only stops it like a goalkeeper's save in football, would this be considered a catch?
It would be absolutely advantageous to dribble, one could run for a stretch much faster and then when danger arrives take the ball in his hands.
B.
Quote from: Gianni on June 07, 2024, 05:59:05 PMQuotenot sure what the D means/is.
I mean holding the ball with hand/s and then hitting It with the head, should it be not legal? Is throwing the ball?
This?
C.
Quote from: Gianni on June 07, 2024, 05:59:05 PMQuoteThese questions are obscure as are the rules. question 3 .. You can't switch the ball from hand to hand when in possession, if not fully in possession you can touch it as many times as you want in the 'air' if in possession of the ball he can't basketball style the ball up the pitch, as he's in possession of the ball.
I mean without catching the ball in flight you keep bounce the ball in air, like juggling, with one hand like this:
(https://images4.imagebam.com/1d/69/f8/METXAV2_o.jpg)
Or with two hands like this:
(https://images4.imagebam.com/7f/09/2d/METXAV4_o.jpg)
If you can touch the ball in the air as many times as you like could you continue to bounce the ball off your hand (like the ball on the Hurling bat)? With one hand or with twoas in the pics?
The rule is
To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts Nobody talks about the player having to catch the ball or having to be in control of the ball. If the rule applies to the letter, a player could not touch the ball in the air and then touch it again until the ball touches the ground, a post, or another player. Or am I wrong?
D.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2024, 11:01:42 AMQuestion 5. anyone on the pitch that does the Sombrero trick (had to google what it was) I'd gladly turn a blind eye and let the defender mill him. but on the rules of play he can do all three. As he's not in possession
So you can touch the balls with feet or any part of the body except the hands and then you could:
1. Catch the ball, obviously.
2. Hit the ball with your hand/s to make it change direction.
3. Hit the ball many times on one hand(s).
4. Hit the ball with one hand(s) and then catch it?
I doubt 3 and 4 are legals.
E.
Rule: A player may toss up the ball with one hand and play it off with the same hand.
It is not a male or female question, but a lexical question.
I mean what
play it off with the same hand mean?. So a player tosses up the ball with right hand, surpass a player and then he can catch it with right hand, legal?
The new point scoring zone good or bad idea? Trials to be held on four points for a goal also
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPyUdXvWAAAjzHu?format=jpg&name=small)
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41413630.html
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 11, 2024, 02:13:51 PMThe new point scoring zone good or bad idea? Trials to be held on four points for a goal also
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPyUdXvWAAAjzHu?format=jpg&name=small)
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41413630.html
I was at the Mayo V Roscommon game ten days ago, not a bad game overall, however once the lateral and back passing started, it completely sucked the atmosphere out of the ground.
We all agree somethings needs to change, be eliminated.
Even if it takes a year or two to tweak, there has to be a better way.
One positive this season, no more lying down, I have never seen more players having a Lazarus type recovery, after they get "injured"
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 11, 2024, 02:13:51 PMThe new point scoring zone good or bad idea? Trials to be held on four points for a goal also
"new point scoring zone"
-- Seems like a gimmick, if a player can reliably score from 40 yards then they should shoot. A two point score will just encourage people who shouldn't be shooting from that distance to have a go.
"four points for a goal"
-- take your points, goals will come, a cliche that arose because of players trying to go for goals that are not on rather than taking an available point, this will just encourage more of that. Another problem with the current possession style of football is players recycling the ball endlessly rather than taking a shot, i feel this will just encourage more recycling trying to work a goal chance.
I give up.
"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I like both ideas. But for Christsake just get rid of the forward mark and black card. Anything that encourages teams to shoot for goal will leave the game more exciting. Encouraging long range point taking will leave the game more exciting. Only problem I have is the headache for groundsmen and refs!
Like the foam idea for frees as well.
I posted some images to explain myself better but the message was delete? Why? Could anyone help me?
Quote from: Gianni on June 11, 2024, 05:01:02 PMI posted some images to explain myself better but the message was delete? Why? Could anyone help me?
Nope, tried but I'm left wonder is this AI
Stop changing the rules every 6 months.
Farcical.
Quote from: Gianni on June 11, 2024, 05:01:02 PMI posted some images to explain myself better but the message was delete? Why? Could anyone help me?
You will be better off keeping your questions for after the championship.
Anytime in August or later will be fine.
Isn't it obvious that Gianni is a made up account for some other GAABoard small membered subscriber.
Since the debate about the refs' interpretation of the advantage rule, from watching some televised games since I have gotten the impression that the refs are becoming very clear and consistent about the interpretation of the advantage rule and in most all cases called play back if no advantage was accruing, regardless of circumstance.
Quote from: dec on June 11, 2024, 03:49:39 PM"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I thought that was the rule
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2024, 12:08:26 AMQuote from: dec on June 11, 2024, 03:49:39 PM"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I thought that was the rule
By rule, if another player other than the two competing for the ball takes possession of the ball first then he has fouled the ball by being less than 13 meters from where ball is thrown up.
Done it a few times and players and line lose it! Again people not knowing the rules
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2024, 07:29:47 AMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2024, 12:08:26 AMQuote from: dec on June 11, 2024, 03:49:39 PM"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I thought that was the rule
By rule, if another player other than the two competing for the ball takes possession of the ball first then he has fouled the ball by being less than 13 meters from where ball is thrown up.
Done it a few times and players and line lose it! Again people not knowing the rules
Depends on how long it look them to gain possession and should you be throwing the ball up/in if the players aren't the pre-requisite 13 metres away?
Quote from: johnnycool on June 12, 2024, 08:29:11 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2024, 07:29:47 AMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2024, 12:08:26 AMQuote from: dec on June 11, 2024, 03:49:39 PM"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I thought that was the rule
By rule, if another player other than the two competing for the ball takes possession of the ball first then he has fouled the ball by being less than 13 meters from where ball is thrown up.
Done it a few times and players and line lose it! Again people not knowing the rules
Depends on how long it look them to gain possession and should you be throwing the ball up/in if the players aren't the pre-requisite 13 metres away?
They can't control it at intercounty, even harder when I'm at a club game with no linesmen to help. What it does do when I call it is it settles down a normally heated engagement with players.
As for the how long it takes him to gain possession, he'd have to have some pace on him to make 13 meters before the two that are competing for the ball. Also if I waited for all players to move back 13 meters for a hop ball then I'd make it easier on myself and blow the match up early, as they won't move back
The throw in to start a hurling match always amuses me. The poor refereee is taking his life into his own hands there.
The 4 pts for a goal will make zero difference to teams going for goal, if anything it will make more hammerings. look at the last round of results
Derry 0-15 Armagh 3-17, Celtic Park - FT
Monaghan 2-10 Louth 2-10, Clones - FT
Westmeath 0-11 Galway 1-12, TEG Cusack Park - FT
Meath 0-9 Kerry 2-18, Pairc Tailteann - FT
Tyrone 3-15 Clare 0-10, Healy Park - FT
all 4 points for a goal will do is make the gap bigger, the scoring system is fine. I have not heard anyone really complain that 3pts isnt enough for a goal.
ditch the forward mark completely and possible a shot clock when you pass half way would be plenty.
the 1 I actually do like is the tap to yourself for a free to stop cynical fouling
Quote from: square_ball on June 12, 2024, 08:49:26 AMThe throw in to start a hurling match always amuses me. The poor refereee is taking his life into his own hands there.
He nearly got clipped on Sunday, the key is go back as far as possible and throw it in, very rarely that the players swing at the ball, possession is sought straight away
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on June 12, 2024, 08:53:45 AMThe 4 pts for a goal will make zero difference to teams going for goal, if anything it will make more hammerings. look at the last round of results
Derry 0-15 Armagh 3-17, Celtic Park - FT
Monaghan 2-10 Louth 2-10, Clones - FT
Westmeath 0-11 Galway 1-12, TEG Cusack Park - FT
Meath 0-9 Kerry 2-18, Pairc Tailteann - FT
Tyrone 3-15 Clare 0-10, Healy Park - FT
all 4 points for a goal will do is make the gap bigger, the scoring system is fine. I have not heard anyone really complain that 3pts isnt enough for a goal.
ditch the forward mark completely and possible a shot clock when you pass half way would be plenty.
the 1 I actually do like is the tap to yourself for a free to stop cynical fouling
I think it was if the rule for 2 points from a score outside the new D, then they'd increase the value of a goal
4 points for a goal would become the embodiment of the law of unintended consequences.
Why would a brilliant team move involving lots of players followed by a deft finish from 25/30 yards out only be worth half the value of a long hopeful kick from 45/50 yards. It's a ludicrous idea. If you do want to reward long range points then they should be worth 3 points with 2 for a normal point and 5 for a goal. That way a long hopeful kick with the wind is only worth 1.5 times the value of a shorter range point at the end of a brilliant move.
Quote from: lenny on June 12, 2024, 09:21:57 AMWhy would a brilliant team move involving lots of players followed by a deft finish from 25/30 yards out only be worth half the value of a long hopeful kick from 45/50 yards. It's a ludicrous idea. If you do want to reward long range points then they should be worth 3 points with 2 for a normal point and 5 for a goal. That way a long hopeful kick with the wind is only worth 1.5 times the value of a shorter range point at the end of a brilliant move.
The scoring zone is the 21 in todays football. a deft finish is inside the 14
Serious art work there.
Gianni....please stop your ludicrous campaign.
Quote from: lenny on June 12, 2024, 09:21:57 AMWhy would a brilliant team move involving lots of players followed by a deft finish from 25/30 yards out only be worth half the value of a long hopeful kick from 45/50 yards. It's a ludicrous idea. If you do want to reward long range points then they should be worth 3 points with 2 for a normal point and 5 for a goal. That way a long hopeful kick with the wind is only worth 1.5 times the value of a shorter range point at the end of a brilliant move.
Meh works OK in basketball.
People born with a longer leg already have intrinsic advantages in football:
1. They can move the ball out of danger further.
2. They can attempt and take scores from distances that are impossible for most footballers.
3. When in the scoring zone - around the D - they can score with little more than a deft flick. It's still a difficult kick for most.
Why we would want any rule that hands this group a further - and absolutely f**king giant - advantage just bewilders me.
You can do leg weights and practice kicking all day every day, and your gains will be marginal. You simply cannot put 5 yards onto your kick.
So this isn't rewarding skill and practice, any more than would be awarding a point for running fast.
——-
Basketball comparisons are apples and pears. Any 13 year old can drop them in from 3-point range. I'd estimate that 50% of county players and 75% of club players couldn't point from 45m in calm conditions.
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/football-review-group-600899
30-50 metre advancement for tactical fouling is abit of a joke. Tactical fouls have their place in the game. And anyway how are you going to decide what was a genuine attempt to tackle or what was a deliberate foul
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 12, 2024, 07:42:56 PMhttps://www.balls.ie/gaa/football-review-group-600899
30-50 metre advancement for tactical fouling is abit of a joke. Tactical fouls have their place in the game. And anyway how are you going to decide what was a genuine attempt to tackle or what was a deliberate foul
An absolute blight on the game.. Players taking it turn to hug tackle the player in possession, stop any momentum. It's not a black card offence and a player could do it half a dozen times in a game before he gets a yellow
Brutal to watch
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2024, 12:08:26 AMQuote from: dec on June 11, 2024, 03:49:39 PM"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I thought that was the rule
I assume this is th
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2024, 08:44:43 AMQuote from: johnnycool on June 12, 2024, 08:29:11 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2024, 07:29:47 AMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2024, 12:08:26 AMQuote from: dec on June 11, 2024, 03:49:39 PM"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I thought that was the rule
By rule, if another player other than the two competing for the ball takes possession of the ball first then he has fouled the ball by being less than 13 meters from where ball is thrown up.
Done it a few times and players and line lose it! Again people not knowing the rules
Depends on how long it look them to gain possession and should you be throwing the ball up/in if the players aren't the pre-requisite 13 metres away?
They can't control it at intercounty, even harder when I'm at a club game with no linesmen to help. What it does do when I call it is it settles down a normally heated engagement with players.
As for the how long it takes him to gain possession, he'd have to have some pace on him to make 13 meters before the two that are competing for the ball. Also if I waited for all players to move back 13 meters for a hop ball then I'd make it easier on myself and blow the match up early, as they won't move back
Is the new rule not in relation to the throw in at the start of each half, rather than hop balls.
2nd midfielder to be back with the HB line.
Quote from: LeoMc on June 12, 2024, 10:10:57 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2024, 12:08:26 AMQuote from: dec on June 11, 2024, 03:49:39 PM"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I thought that was the rule
I assume this is thQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2024, 08:44:43 AMQuote from: johnnycool on June 12, 2024, 08:29:11 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2024, 07:29:47 AMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2024, 12:08:26 AMQuote from: dec on June 11, 2024, 03:49:39 PM"1v1 for all throw-ins"
That is almost what it is like at the moment. In most of the games I have seen, one pair of players push each other while the other pair compete for the ball.
I thought that was the rule
By rule, if another player other than the two competing for the ball takes possession of the ball first then he has fouled the ball by being less than 13 meters from where ball is thrown up.
Done it a few times and players and line lose it! Again people not knowing the rules
Depends on how long it look them to gain possession and should you be throwing the ball up/in if the players aren't the pre-requisite 13 metres away?
They can't control it at intercounty, even harder when I'm at a club game with no linesmen to help. What it does do when I call it is it settles down a normally heated engagement with players.
As for the how long it takes him to gain possession, he'd have to have some pace on him to make 13 meters before the two that are competing for the ball. Also if I waited for all players to move back 13 meters for a hop ball then I'd make it easier on myself and blow the match up early, as they won't move back
Is the new rule not in relation to the throw in at the start of each half, rather than hop balls.
2nd midfielder to be back with the HB line.
Why is that a hassle in the game? For the restarting the game is the best of the throw ins as there is less players about
Throw ups should be vastly reduced by following a similar principle to rugby and just overturning a free due to foul play/dissent etc. Throw up's often flare up incidents, whereas if the play was overturned to the opposition then the game can begin straight away and leave less standing around waiting for aggro to start! Only scenarios where it is not known who the ball should be awarded too (e.g. a line ball) should there be a throw up.
People complaining about that football has become just like basketball.
Also people: lets introduce threepointers and a shot clock.
Gianni...for the second time, please stop.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 13, 2024, 06:14:39 PMGianni...for the second time, please stop.
Is it olly? ;)
Can't believe the media seem to be backing the 2 point line - absolutely bizzare suggestion. Changing the scoring system is far far too radical. There are plenty of smart people in the FRC so I hope they come to their senses. Colm Boyle on Off the Ball is the only pundit I seen calling it out for what it is.
MR is the only one who can tell, on here, what might work from a ref's level but you'd like to think that's happening at HQ too.
Quote from: ONeill on June 13, 2024, 10:28:14 PMMR is the only one who can tell, on here, what might work from a ref's level but you'd like to think that's happening at HQ too.
On a basic club level set up it's bonkers..
Tuesday night pissing down in some council pitch, never lined out or a shared pitch with dozens of lines from soccer and GAA on it, some ref's not able or as fit as they'd like to be to get in vision, then the fat lazy hanger ons over the fence telling ya to keep up ;D
Quote from: ONeill on June 13, 2024, 10:28:14 PMMR is the only one who can tell, on here, what might work from a ref's level but you'd like to think that's happening at HQ too.
Gianni too of course
Quote from: JoG2 on June 13, 2024, 11:57:28 PMQuote from: ONeill on June 13, 2024, 10:28:14 PMMR is the only one who can tell, on here, what might work from a ref's level but you'd like to think that's happening at HQ too.
Gianni too of course
...
2 queries:
1. in a club game if a player is fouled within the D and 21 with a goal scoring opportunity is it a penalty or is that just intercounty?
2. Sliding tackle- if a player slides in feet first to win a ball and does not touch an opponent coming in to challenge for the ball but does not due to the player sliding in, free or not?
Quote from: Would ye whist on June 20, 2024, 10:58:16 AM2 queries:
1. in a club game if a player is fouled within the D and 21 with a goal scoring opportunity is it a penalty or is that just intercounty?
2. Sliding tackle- if a player slides in feet first to win a ball and does not touch an opponent coming in to challenge for the ball but does not due to the player sliding in, free or not?
The point a lot of people miss on this is that it must be one of the black card offences, not just any foul.
Quote from: Would ye whist on June 20, 2024, 10:58:16 AM2 queries:
1. in a club game if a player is fouled within the D and 21 with a goal scoring opportunity is it a penalty or is that just intercounty?
2. Sliding tackle- if a player slides in feet first to win a ball and does not touch an opponent coming in to challenge for the ball but does not due to the player sliding in, free or not?
First one is intercounty, as DIE says, its got to be cynical/deliberate and a clear goal scoring opportunity, that the referee believes was stopped, not what the guy hanging over the fence thinks ;)
A player can slide in anywhere on the pitch but if the referee deems it dangerous or reckless he can call a foul and dish out a card. Not touching the player can still be a free, if it could have been reckless or dangerous, but no need for card just a free.
Conditions though play a part, on a soak drenched night there will be more people going to ground, all about making sure those things are taken into consideration.
I'd a player that did that yesterday, no hassle slid in no contact but the defender coming out was slightly impeded and enough for a free out and no need far cards
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 20, 2024, 11:07:02 AMQuote from: Would ye whist on June 20, 2024, 10:58:16 AM2 queries:
1. in a club game if a player is fouled within the D and 21 with a goal scoring opportunity is it a penalty or is that just intercounty?
2. Sliding tackle- if a player slides in feet first to win a ball and does not touch an opponent coming in to challenge for the ball but does not due to the player sliding in, free or not?
The point a lot of people miss on this is that it must be one of the black card offences, not just any foul.
Its also a point a lot of people miss when they call for black cards in normal play and not just in the denying of a goalscoring opportunity situation.
An attacking player is tangled up in the net , behind the goal line , just as the ball is fisted into the square
He then enters the square from behind the goal line and fists it into the net.
Legitimate goal?
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 22, 2024, 03:19:52 PMAn attacking player is tangled up in the net , behind the goal line , just as the ball is fisted into the square
He then enters the square from behind the goal line and fists it into the net.
Legitimate goal?
If a player leaves the end line comes back in to gain an advantage and scores it's illegal
If a player is unintentionally tangled inside the net then that's ok as he didn't do it to gain an advantage
Well that would be my reading into it
In hurling, if you attempt to pull on the ball and miss it plus don't make contact with another hurl/player whilst another player from the opposition controls and catches the ball, is it a foul?
Unsure if there is a hurling version of this thread but wondered on the above.
Another interesting one is Shane O'Donnell's goal yesterday. 10 or 11 steps but is fouled twice during this.
Quote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 12:42:53 PMIn hurling, if you attempt to pull on the ball and miss it plus don't make contact with another hurl/player whilst another player from the opposition controls and catches the ball, is it a foul?
Unsure if there is a hurling version of this thread but wondered on the above.
Another interesting one is Shane O'Donnell's goal yesterday. 10 or 11 steps but is fouled twice during this.
If you attempt to play the ball and miss both ball player then that's fine. If you pull early, wildly/dangerously/carelessly then that's a yellow card, if you connect with the head it's a red.
Not sure on O'Donnell's steps, didn't see game but .. if fouled twice did the ref give advantage?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2024, 01:15:32 PMQuote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 12:42:53 PMIn hurling, if you attempt to pull on the ball and miss it plus don't make contact with another hurl/player whilst another player from the opposition controls and catches the ball, is it a foul?
Unsure if there is a hurling version of this thread but wondered on the above.
Another interesting one is Shane O'Donnell's goal yesterday. 10 or 11 steps but is fouled twice during this.
If you attempt to play the ball and miss both ball player then that's fine. If you pull early, wildly/dangerously/carelessly then that's a yellow card, if you connect with the head it's a red.
Not sure on O'Donnell's steps, didn't see game but .. if fouled twice did the ref give advantage?
I've seen one ref in antrim play on, the other give a free. Exact same situation, both were honest attempts at a pull.
I'm going to assume ref gave advantage for O'Donnell as they were clear fouls. Ball ended up in the net after all the steps and wexford didn't appeal it.
Quote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 01:19:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2024, 01:15:32 PMQuote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 12:42:53 PMIn hurling, if you attempt to pull on the ball and miss it plus don't make contact with another hurl/player whilst another player from the opposition controls and catches the ball, is it a foul?
Unsure if there is a hurling version of this thread but wondered on the above.
Another interesting one is Shane O'Donnell's goal yesterday. 10 or 11 steps but is fouled twice during this.
If you attempt to play the ball and miss both ball player then that's fine. If you pull early, wildly/dangerously/carelessly then that's a yellow card, if you connect with the head it's a red.
Not sure on O'Donnell's steps, didn't see game but .. if fouled twice did the ref give advantage?
I've seen one ref in antrim play on, the other give a free. Exact same situation, both were honest attempts at a pull.
I'm going to assume ref gave advantage for O'Donnell as they were clear fouls. Ball ended up in the net after all the steps and wexford didn't appeal it.
All about interpretation ;)
Quote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 01:19:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2024, 01:15:32 PMQuote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 12:42:53 PMIn hurling, if you attempt to pull on the ball and miss it plus don't make contact with another hurl/player whilst another player from the opposition controls and catches the ball, is it a foul?
Unsure if there is a hurling version of this thread but wondered on the above.
Another interesting one is Shane O'Donnell's goal yesterday. 10 or 11 steps but is fouled twice during this.
If you attempt to play the ball and miss both ball player then that's fine. If you pull early, wildly/dangerously/carelessly then that's a yellow card, if you connect with the head it's a red.
Not sure on O'Donnell's steps, didn't see game but .. if fouled twice did the ref give advantage?
I've seen one ref in antrim play on, the other give a free. Exact same situation, both were honest attempts at a pull.
I'm going to assume ref gave advantage for O'Donnell as they were clear fouls. Ball ended up in the net after all the steps and wexford didn't appeal it.
The O'Donnell type situation and the advantage rule is a strange one.
It seems to be that once the player in possession is fouled the referee resets (whether intentionally or not) the step count to zero. In that one on Saturday the Wexford lad persisted with the fouling and O'Donnell continued to take steps all the while the referee played advantage.
Once O'Donnell broke free he did play the ball as up to that point he couldn't play the ball due to the pulling on his arms.
I've said all along, stop the "spare arm tackle" which isn't in the rulebook for hurling and enforce the steps rule and we'll have a better game where defenders will be taught to tackle properly and have the ability to take the ball from an opponent who can't overcarry.
That cat is well out of the bag though!
Quote from: johnnycool on June 24, 2024, 09:36:41 AMQuote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 01:19:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2024, 01:15:32 PMQuote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 12:42:53 PMIn hurling, if you attempt to pull on the ball and miss it plus don't make contact with another hurl/player whilst another player from the opposition controls and catches the ball, is it a foul?
Unsure if there is a hurling version of this thread but wondered on the above.
Another interesting one is Shane O'Donnell's goal yesterday. 10 or 11 steps but is fouled twice during this.
If you attempt to play the ball and miss both ball player then that's fine. If you pull early, wildly/dangerously/carelessly then that's a yellow card, if you connect with the head it's a red.
Not sure on O'Donnell's steps, didn't see game but .. if fouled twice did the ref give advantage?
I've seen one ref in antrim play on, the other give a free. Exact same situation, both were honest attempts at a pull.
I'm going to assume ref gave advantage for O'Donnell as they were clear fouls. Ball ended up in the net after all the steps and wexford didn't appeal it.
The O'Donnell type situation and the advantage rule is a strange one.
It seems to be that once the player in possession is fouled the referee resets (whether intentionally or not) the step count to zero. In that one on Saturday the Wexford lad persisted with the fouling and O'Donnell continued to take steps all the while the referee played advantage.
Once O'Donnell broke free he did play the ball as up to that point he couldn't play the ball due to the pulling on his arms.
I've said all along, stop the "spare arm tackle" which isn't in the rulebook for hurling and enforce the steps rule and we'll have a better game where defenders will be taught to tackle properly and have the ability to take the ball from an opponent who can't overcarry.
That cat is well out of the bag though!
Like the 'handpass'.
Quote from: marty34 on June 24, 2024, 09:46:20 AMQuote from: johnnycool on June 24, 2024, 09:36:41 AMQuote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 01:19:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2024, 01:15:32 PMQuote from: Link on June 23, 2024, 12:42:53 PMIn hurling, if you attempt to pull on the ball and miss it plus don't make contact with another hurl/player whilst another player from the opposition controls and catches the ball, is it a foul?
Unsure if there is a hurling version of this thread but wondered on the above.
Another interesting one is Shane O'Donnell's goal yesterday. 10 or 11 steps but is fouled twice during this.
If you attempt to play the ball and miss both ball player then that's fine. If you pull early, wildly/dangerously/carelessly then that's a yellow card, if you connect with the head it's a red.
Not sure on O'Donnell's steps, didn't see game but .. if fouled twice did the ref give advantage?
I've seen one ref in antrim play on, the other give a free. Exact same situation, both were honest attempts at a pull.
I'm going to assume ref gave advantage for O'Donnell as they were clear fouls. Ball ended up in the net after all the steps and wexford didn't appeal it.
The O'Donnell type situation and the advantage rule is a strange one.
It seems to be that once the player in possession is fouled the referee resets (whether intentionally or not) the step count to zero. In that one on Saturday the Wexford lad persisted with the fouling and O'Donnell continued to take steps all the while the referee played advantage.
Once O'Donnell broke free he did play the ball as up to that point he couldn't play the ball due to the pulling on his arms.
I've said all along, stop the "spare arm tackle" which isn't in the rulebook for hurling and enforce the steps rule and we'll have a better game where defenders will be taught to tackle properly and have the ability to take the ball from an opponent who can't overcarry.
That cat is well out of the bag though!
Like the 'handpass'.
I think the spare arm came in by footballers tackling, I'd have encouraged that when manager as it was a way our lads were 'grappling' at the ball in hand to dislodge it, using football tackles in hurling, it has since developed into something more and is a nuisance, having not seen the above incident with O'Donnell but gathering what you are saying, and with you being as young as me will know that the old referee's used to give a player a chance to break the tackle when foul to let it develop.
This was called the 'slow whistle' the advantage rule came in to change that and give an advantage, what we have now a mixed bag of slow whistle and advantage.. That needs to change.. guilty sometimes of that also
So, the Niall Grimley attacking mark yesterday
Should he have been given his attacking free/mark?
If only we had a referee on the board ;D
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 30, 2024, 12:14:19 PMSo, the Niall Grimley attacking mark yesterday
Should he have been given his attacking free/mark?
If only we had a referee on the board ;D
imo i would have given it to him. Landed infield
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 30, 2024, 12:14:19 PMSo, the Niall Grimley attacking mark yesterday
Should he have been given his attacking free/mark?
If only we had a referee on the board ;D
Definitely.
Serious fetch wasn't it.
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 30, 2024, 12:14:19 PMSo, the Niall Grimley attacking mark yesterday
Should he have been given his attacking free/mark?
If only we had a referee on the board ;D
Sure everyone is a referee on here, all ya need is a tennis umpire seat at the side of the pitch, plant yourself down and call it!
Here's wan.
A fella claims a mark from kickout.
Referee blows whistle as he catches the ball.
But as he comes down from the catch he drops the ball.
What happens.
I'm a referee, I've done this a few times. Players stop and look at you. I say play on and I blew it thinking he was going to continue to hold the ball, but he dropped it.
I could wait a few extra seconds to see if he completes the whole catch but that encourages tackling of the player.
Quote from: theticklemister on July 03, 2024, 05:29:02 AMHere's wan.
A fella claims a mark from kickout.
Referee blows whistle as he catches the ball.
But as he comes down from the catch he drops the ball.
What happens.
I'm a referee, I've done this a few times. Players stop and look at you. I say play on and I blew it thinking he was going to continue to hold the ball, but he dropped it.
I could wait a few extra seconds to see if he completes the whole catch but that encourages tackling of the player.
Anytime i have ever seen that happy the referee has always given the mark to the annoyance of the opposition.
Once you have blown the whistle you have awarded the mark.
As DIE has said once you have blown, rightly or wrongly you must give that decision, been caught out a few times like that but all I say is, the ball has been caught cleanly first, I've blown for the mark, he's went on and dropped it, but I'm not entirely sure if the wording for the mark lets you off with that.
Player (who happens to be a defender) calls an attacking mark on the 21 slightly on the angle, not fancying the kick goes down holding his hamstring. Referee proceeds to let their free taker who was about 40 yards away and not the closest player to take the mark instead, and he scores his 9th placed ball of the day.
Injured player leaves the field for treatment, comes back on and then sprints down the pitch (clearly hamstring has miraculously recovered) to his own half and finishes the game. Is this within the rules or did the ref get it wrong?
Wrong.
Should have been closest player taking the kick.
We can't account for him being duped by play acting. Who is to know?
Quote from: gaaman2016 on July 03, 2024, 09:22:42 AMPlayer (who happens to be a defender) calls an attacking mark on the 21 slightly on the angle, not fancying the kick goes down holding his hamstring. Referee proceeds to let their free taker who was about 40 yards away and not the closest player to take the mark instead, and he scores his 9th placed ball of the day.
Injured player leaves the field for treatment, comes back on and then sprints down the pitch (clearly hamstring has miraculously recovered) to his own half and finishes the game. Is this within the rules or did the ref get it wrong?
Injured player can opt out, its the nearest player and they have 15 seconds to play, though if injured player is getting initial treatment before going off at position of mark, then what do we do? The rule does not state that the best free taker can't take free, if a player fakes an injury, what can we do? we aint medics and not our job to diagnose..
Regarding the Foot block
Just watched Armagh Kerry highlights again.
Ball on the ground, Kelly prods the ball towards goal, Kerry defender blocks the ball with his foot.
Is that a penalty?
Or is it only a penalty when the ball is kicked from the attackers hands?
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 12:41:12 AMRegarding the Foot block
Just watched Armagh Kerry highlights again.
Ball on the ground, Kelly prods the ball towards goal, Kerry defender blocks the ball with his foot.
Is that a penalty? No
Or is it only a penalty when the ball is kicked from the attackers hands? Yes
U16 game. Full back is taking kickouts rather than the keeper.
Keeper must stand in the small square for the KO?
Can the first pass after the kickout go back to the keeper? Or can it not go back to either the kicker or the keeper?
Quote from: JoG2 on July 17, 2024, 12:47:10 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 12:41:12 AMRegarding the Foot block
Just watched Armagh Kerry highlights again.
Ball on the ground, Kelly prods the ball towards goal, Kerry defender blocks the ball with his foot.
Is that a penalty? No
Or is it only a penalty when the ball is kicked from the attackers hands? Yes
So if the ball was rolling in front of goal and the attacker takes a run and an almighty swing at it, the defender is legally entitled to throw their leg/foot at the ball to block it?
Kelly's effort was tame as the ball was caught under his feet , but surely that description above would be deemed dangerous?
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 10:54:23 AMQuote from: JoG2 on July 17, 2024, 12:47:10 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 12:41:12 AMRegarding the Foot block
Just watched Armagh Kerry highlights again.
Ball on the ground, Kelly prods the ball towards goal, Kerry defender blocks the ball with his foot.
Is that a penalty? No
Or is it only a penalty when the ball is kicked from the attackers hands? Yes
So if the ball was rolling in front of goal and the attacker takes a run and an almighty swing at it, the defender is legally entitled to throw their leg/foot at the ball to block it?
Kelly's effort was tame as the ball was caught under his feet , but surely that description above would be deemed dangerous?
Sounds like they are both trying to do the same thing, then that would cancel out a foul?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2024, 10:55:46 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 10:54:23 AMQuote from: JoG2 on July 17, 2024, 12:47:10 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 12:41:12 AMRegarding the Foot block
Just watched Armagh Kerry highlights again.
Ball on the ground, Kelly prods the ball towards goal, Kerry defender blocks the ball with his foot.
Is that a penalty? No
Or is it only a penalty when the ball is kicked from the attackers hands? Yes
So if the ball was rolling in front of goal and the attacker takes a run and an almighty swing at it, the defender is legally entitled to throw their leg/foot at the ball to block it?
Kelly's effort was tame as the ball was caught under his feet , but surely that description above would be deemed dangerous?
Sounds like they are both trying to do the same thing, then that would cancel out a foul?
Yes, foot block only comes into play if the attacker is kicking out of his hands
Would love to see an overhead kick goal, or even someone attempt it
Seen two old club players back in the day, one a very accomplished soccer player, both headed the ball into the net, one was given and the other the ref disallowed it. I remember the one given caused a stink to the home team but we lapped it up on the sidelines
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2024, 11:41:55 AMSeen two old club players back in the day, one a very accomplished soccer player, both headed the ball into the net, one was given and the other the ref disallowed it. I remember the one given caused a stink to the home team but we lapped it up on the sidelines
Didn't one of Kieran Donaghy's goals in an AI final come off his head? Might have been v Cork
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 12:15:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2024, 11:41:55 AMSeen two old club players back in the day, one a very accomplished soccer player, both headed the ball into the net, one was given and the other the ref disallowed it. I remember the one given caused a stink to the home team but we lapped it up on the sidelines
Didn't one of Kieran Donaghy's goals in an AI final come off his head? Might have been v Cork
There's a difference in it coming off a part of your body i.e in that instance, your head, or intentionally heading the ball in that would wind ones up
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2024, 12:18:11 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 12:15:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2024, 11:41:55 AMSeen two old club players back in the day, one a very accomplished soccer player, both headed the ball into the net, one was given and the other the ref disallowed it. I remember the one given caused a stink to the home team but we lapped it up on the sidelines
Didn't one of Kieran Donaghy's goals in an AI final come off his head? Might have been v Cork
There's a difference in it coming off a part of your body i.e in that instance, your head, or intentionally heading the ball in that would wind ones up
How do you differentiate between intent to score legitimately with a header, or intent to score legitimately with a header including a side of nuisance/call it what you will? And how does opponent-supporter annoyance factor in? Not suggesting that a headed goal would be disallowed under highly subjective officiating?
Headed goal stands whether in-off or directly intentional, thats all there is to it as far as I can tell
Quote from: StephenC on July 17, 2024, 10:47:26 AMU16 game. Full back is taking kickouts rather than the keeper.
Keeper must stand in the small square for the KO?
Can the first pass after the kickout go back to the keeper? Or can it not go back to either the kicker or the keeper?
In theory - provided there are no local rules implemented by the county board or juvenile board:
Keeper must stay inside the small rectangle if not taking the kickout.
After kicking the ball out the full back can receive an immediate pass but not the goalkeeper.
Quote from: tiempo on July 17, 2024, 12:29:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2024, 12:18:11 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2024, 12:15:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2024, 11:41:55 AMSeen two old club players back in the day, one a very accomplished soccer player, both headed the ball into the net, one was given and the other the ref disallowed it. I remember the one given caused a stink to the home team but we lapped it up on the sidelines
Didn't one of Kieran Donaghy's goals in an AI final come off his head? Might have been v Cork
There's a difference in it coming off a part of your body i.e in that instance, your head, or intentionally heading the ball in that would wind ones up
How do you differentiate between intent to score legitimately with a header, or intent to score legitimately with a header including a side of nuisance/call it what you will? And how does opponent-supporter annoyance factor in? Not suggesting that a headed goal would be disallowed under highly subjective officiating?
Headed goal stands whether in-off or directly intentional, thats all there is to it as far as I can tell
They all count and whether intentionally (as you'd know he went out of his way to head it rather than bounced off his head) or unintentionally
The account I gave was from the mid 80s at a rival club at the time, soccer was still a sport that wasn't entirely popular in GAA circles so it raised a few eyebrows and annoyance
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on July 17, 2024, 01:00:31 PMQuote from: StephenC on July 17, 2024, 10:47:26 AMU16 game. Full back is taking kickouts rather than the keeper.
Keeper must stand in the small square for the KO?
Can the first pass after the kickout go back to the keeper? Or can it not go back to either the kicker or the keeper?
In theory - provided there are no local rules implemented by the county board or juvenile board:
Keeper must stay inside the small rectangle if not taking the kickout.
After kicking the ball out the full back can receive an immediate pass but not the goalkeeper.
Thanks. Have had 2 different answers from refs on this and so far I've stayed safe by having the kickout going to someone else other than either the kicker or the keeper.
Would love to hear if anyone else has come across this?
Quote2.7 (a) When the ball is played over the endline by the Team attacking that end, or after a score
is made, play is restarted by a kick-out off the ground from the centre point of the 20m line
and shall be kicked forward.
If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, The goalkeeper shall stay in the small rectangle,
and all other players, except the player taking the kick-out, shall be outside the 20m line,
outside the semi-circular arc and 13m from the ball until it has been kicked.
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player
touches it but may not take the ball into the hands.
The ball shall travel not less than 13m and outside the 20m line before being played by
another player of the defending team.
(b) The Player taking the kick-out after the ball goes wide or a score shall have the
option of using a standard tee as approved by Central Council.
(c) A player in direct receipt of a kick-out may not pass the ball to their team's goalkeeper
without another player playing the ball.
Part (c) is pretty clear to me - the full back can get the ball directly back from the first receiver of the ball, but the goal-keeper cannot.
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 17, 2024, 05:22:19 PMQuote2.7 (a) When the ball is played over the endline by the Team attacking that end, or after a score
is made, play is restarted by a kick-out off the ground from the centre point of the 20m line
and shall be kicked forward.
If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, The goalkeeper shall stay in the small rectangle,
and all other players, except the player taking the kick-out, shall be outside the 20m line,
outside the semi-circular arc and 13m from the ball until it has been kicked.
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player
touches it but may not take the ball into the hands.
The ball shall travel not less than 13m and outside the 20m line before being played by
another player of the defending team.
(b) The Player taking the kick-out after the ball goes wide or a score shall have the
option of using a standard tee as approved by Central Council.
(c) A player in direct receipt of a kick-out may not pass the ball to their team's goalkeeper
without another player playing the ball.
Part (c) is pretty clear to me - the full back can get the ball directly back from the first receiver of the ball, but the goal-keeper cannot.
That's perfect - thank you!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2024, 11:41:55 AMSeen two old club players back in the day, one a very accomplished soccer player, both headed the ball into the net, one was given and the other the ref disallowed it. I remember the one given caused a stink to the home team but we lapped it up on the sidelines
Anyone who tries to head an O'Neill football will get some extra brain damage to go along with what they already have.
Quote from: StephenC on July 17, 2024, 08:37:24 PMQuote from: twohands!!! on July 17, 2024, 05:22:19 PMQuote2.7 (a) When the ball is played over the endline by the Team attacking that end, or after a score
is made, play is restarted by a kick-out off the ground from the centre point of the 20m line
and shall be kicked forward.
If the goalkeeper is not taking the kick-out, The goalkeeper shall stay in the small rectangle,
and all other players, except the player taking the kick-out, shall be outside the 20m line,
outside the semi-circular arc and 13m from the ball until it has been kicked.
The player taking a kick-out may kick the ball more than once before any other player
touches it but may not take the ball into the hands.
The ball shall travel not less than 13m and outside the 20m line before being played by
another player of the defending team.
(b) The Player taking the kick-out after the ball goes wide or a score shall have the
option of using a standard tee as approved by Central Council.
(c) A player in direct receipt of a kick-out may not pass the ball to their team's goalkeeper
without another player playing the ball.
Part (c) is pretty clear to me - the full back can get the ball directly back from the first receiver of the ball, but the goal-keeper cannot.
That's perfect - thank you!
We had a ref recently at an u16 game not penalise us after one of our defenders took a kick-out and the player who received the ball passed it back to our keeper as two outfield players had played the ball before it was passed back to the keeper.
Is Ladies football essentially non-contact? Watching the Fermanagh vs Louth match and ref blows for any contact while tackling.. Rarely watch ladies so not 100% on the rules
Quote from: Mourne Red on August 04, 2024, 12:40:44 PMIs Ladies football essentially non-contact? Watching the Fermanagh vs Louth match and ref blows for any contact while tackling.. Rarely watch ladies so not 100% on the rules
Really no contact
Many Ladies who play the game have commented on how the present rules are outdated in relation to Contact. These rules were decided on when the game was in it's infancy and the Women's game was more a past-time and played by only a few.
Womens football needs to go to the physicality/contact levels of mens and mens needs to go to the level of hurling, both would benefit greatly
Would do a lot of college ladies games, and naturally allow the physicality a bit more, which to be fair to the players they much prefer that.
But did a couple of league games at juvenile level and had to be a lot more on point!
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on August 15, 2024, 01:19:16 PMWitnessed a bizarre scene last night. Away team awarded a free out. Clear push on the back. Home team grabbed the ball while the away player was on the ground and lumped it into the square and scored a goal. Referee didn't call the play back and allowed the goal to stand. Are referee's not allowed to call play back even if the wrong team took the free? Never witnessed anything like it ;D
Never seen that before, but you are defo sure he called the free for the away team?
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 04, 2024, 04:41:00 PMWomens football needs to go to the physicality/contact levels of mens and mens needs to go to the level of hurling, both would benefit greatly
I would be a lot better watch seen them beating lumps out of each other along as hair pulling wasn't allowed.
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on August 15, 2024, 02:08:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2024, 01:55:32 PMQuote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on August 15, 2024, 01:19:16 PMWitnessed a bizarre scene last night. Away team awarded a free out. Clear push on the back. Home team grabbed the ball while the away player was on the ground and lumped it into the square and scored a goal. Referee didn't call the play back and allowed the goal to stand. Are referee's not allowed to call play back even if the wrong team took the free? Never witnessed anything like it ;D
Never seen that before, but you are defo sure he called the free for the away team?
Yes, it happened very quick. The ref admitted after that he had made a mistake but was unable to call play back after the ball had already went into the net. Away team still won the game so no big fuss made after the game. Just was unsure as to why he wasn't able to call play back even though the wrong team had taken the free.
You could bring that back no problem if you admitted you made a mistake
Maybe he was so in awe of a team that hadn't handpassed the ball around the 45 for 5 minutes then shot a wide he wanted to reward a good old fashioned lump it into the square and score a goal tactic.
Frees are always being called back for being taken in the wrong place so don't see why this couldn't happen. I'd guess he realised his mistake too late to go back to the free rather than simply being unable to do so e.g. awarded goal allowed game to restart.
On ladies football I refereed an under 12 game, every tackle looked to be a foul by my understanding of the rules, which is no contact. Since I am totally unqualified I refereed it like a boys match and let the comments from the sidelines wash over me.
Quote from: theticklemister on August 15, 2024, 02:21:00 PMQuote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on August 15, 2024, 02:08:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2024, 01:55:32 PMQuote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on August 15, 2024, 01:19:16 PMWitnessed a bizarre scene last night. Away team awarded a free out. Clear push on the back. Home team grabbed the ball while the away player was on the ground and lumped it into the square and scored a goal. Referee didn't call the play back and allowed the goal to stand. Are referee's not allowed to call play back even if the wrong team took the free? Never witnessed anything like it ;D
Never seen that before, but you are defo sure he called the free for the away team?
Yes, it happened very quick. The ref admitted after that he had made a mistake but was unable to call play back after the ball had already went into the net. Away team still won the game so no big fuss made after the game. Just was unsure as to why he wasn't able to call play back even though the wrong team had taken the free.
You could bring that back no problem if you admitted you made a mistake
Refs egos don't allow for that in most cases.
If a free kick is taken too short, does the ref hop the ball or reverse the free?
Was at a game the other night where the ref reversed the free. I always thought it was a hop ball
If a sideline ball is awarded can a ref move it up for slabberind or some other infringement
Quote from: Smokin Joe on August 15, 2024, 04:35:02 PMIf a free kick is taken too short, does the ref hop the ball or reverse the free?
Was at a game the other night where the ref reversed the free. I always thought it was a hop ball
It is a hop ball but see this pretty often as well refs that aren't clued up on the rules enough
Quote from: Brendan on August 15, 2024, 06:16:52 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on August 15, 2024, 04:35:02 PMIf a free kick is taken too short, does the ref hop the ball or reverse the free?
Was at a game the other night where the ref reversed the free. I always thought it was a hop ball
It is a hop ball but see this pretty often as well refs that aren't clued up on the rules enough
It's a free kick for the opposing team
Quote from: Square Ball on August 15, 2024, 05:47:17 PMIf a sideline ball is awarded can a ref move it up for slabberind or some other infringement
Can a referee move a free or sideline ball forward for slabbering of coaches and/or spectators?
I've seen that happen recently and only believed if it was a player doing the slabbering could they bring it forward
Quote from: Square Ball on August 15, 2024, 05:47:17 PMIf a sideline ball is awarded can a ref move it up for slabberind or some other infringement
You see refs bringing that in regularly (normally when an opposition player throws the ball over the fence to stop it being taken quickly). The ref marches straight towards the goal with the ball under his arm.
Quote from: Brendan on August 15, 2024, 06:16:52 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on August 15, 2024, 04:35:02 PMIf a free kick is taken too short, does the ref hop the ball or reverse the free?
Was at a game the other night where the ref reversed the free. I always thought it was a hop ball
It is a hop ball but see this pretty often as well refs that aren't clued up on the rules enough
Hop ball in men's and reverse free for ladies
Ye can't bring a sideline 'up the line' but if opposition being a dickhead you can give a free and bring it in
Hop ball if there's retaliation
Hop ball if players from opposing teams foul at same time ;)
Hop ball for player collecting ball inside D or 21 in hurling, football for both
Hop ball if play stopped with no team in possession
Hop ball for breaking line for sideline kick
Have I missed any?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2024, 07:24:14 PMHop ball if there's retaliation
Hop ball if players from opposing teams foul at same time ;)
Hop ball for player collecting ball inside D or 21 in hurling, football for both
Hop ball if play stopped with no team in possession
Hop ball for breaking line for sideline kick
Have I missed any?
Hop ball if a ref does t have a f**king clue!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2024, 07:24:14 PMHop ball if there's retaliation
Hop ball if players from opposing teams foul at same time ;)
Hop ball for player collecting ball inside D or 21 in hurling, football for both
Hop ball if play stopped with no team in possession
Hop ball for breaking line for sideline kick
Have I missed any?
Free in for third one?
Quote from: theticklemister on August 15, 2024, 06:46:25 PMQuote from: Brendan on August 15, 2024, 06:16:52 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on August 15, 2024, 04:35:02 PMIf a free kick is taken too short, does the ref hop the ball or reverse the free?
Was at a game the other night where the ref reversed the free. I always thought it was a hop ball
It is a hop ball but see this pretty often as well refs that aren't clued up on the rules enough
Hop ball in men's and reverse free for ladies
This is the rule for mens
4.11 (a) For a player on the team awarded a free kick or a sideline kick to be less than 13m from the
ball before it is kicked.
It is a free kick.
Foul is against the player receiving the ball. So it is a free kick. If the kicker fouls the ball by taking too long, taking it from the wrong place or dissent then it is a hop ball.
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on August 15, 2024, 08:27:59 PMQuote from: theticklemister on August 15, 2024, 06:46:25 PMQuote from: Brendan on August 15, 2024, 06:16:52 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on August 15, 2024, 04:35:02 PMIf a free kick is taken too short, does the ref hop the ball or reverse the free?
Was at a game the other night where the ref reversed the free. I always thought it was a hop ball
It is a hop ball but see this pretty often as well refs that aren't clued up on the rules enough
Hop ball in men's and reverse free for ladies
This is the rule for mens
4.11 (a) For a player on the team awarded a free kick or a sideline kick to be less than 13m from the
ball before it is kicked.
It is a free kick.
Foul is against the player receiving the ball. So it is a free kick. If the kicker fouls the ball by taking too long, taking it from the wrong place or dissent then it is a hop ball.
Very harsh isn't it. Common sense would say give a hop ball.
If a sub goalie is listed #16, and their jersey is a match of the starting goalkeeper, and during the match they are subbed on outfield, do they just run around in the goalie colours?
* Players have to hand the ball to a fouled opponent, rather than dropping it or kicking it away
I don't think the GAA thought this new rule through. I envisage lots of incidents of players whacking the ball into players' chests as they hand the ball back.
Should have just said they have to drop the ball straight away as soon as a free is blown.
Quote from: blanketattack on September 11, 2024, 02:25:28 PM* Players have to hand the ball to a fouled opponent, rather than dropping it or kicking it away
I don't think the GAA thought this new rule through. I envisage lots of incidents of players whacking the ball into players' chests as they hand the ball back.
Should have just said they have to drop the ball straight away as soon as a free is blown.
I hope they have thought of punishments for infractions like this. Does anyone know if these have been published yet? Like what is the punishment for not keeping 3 players inside the 65?
Could see a wave of refs saying 'feck this for lark' and handing their whistles back.. The amount of changes in the game over the past few years is mad Ted
Quote from: blanketattack on September 11, 2024, 02:25:28 PM* Players have to hand the ball to a fouled opponent, rather than dropping it or kicking it away
I don't think the GAA thought this new rule through. I envisage lots of incidents of players whacking the ball into players' chests as they hand the ball back.
Should have just said they have to drop the ball straight away as soon as a free is blown.
Has this been proposed for congress? It's followed well in the Aussie Rules that one. Probably because the penalty is moving up the foul by 50 metres but they do throw the ball back directly into the opponent's chest whenever they have fouled them and quick free kicks are taken.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2024, 10:52:37 PMIf a sub goalie is listed #16, and their jersey is a match of the starting goalkeeper, and during the match they are subbed on outfield, do they just run around in the goalie colours?
I would have thought they'd have to change into an outfield jersey, but considering we regularly see goalkeepers outfield anyway , maybe they could run out in a GK jersey. But I'll leave this to the referees on here to confirm
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 11, 2024, 06:12:04 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2024, 10:52:37 PMIf a sub goalie is listed #16, and their jersey is a match of the starting goalkeeper, and during the match they are subbed on outfield, do they just run around in the goalie colours?
I would have thought they'd have to change into an outfield jersey, but considering we regularly see goalkeepers outfield anyway , maybe they could run out in a GK jersey. But I'll leave this to the referees on here to confirm
You can't have two goalkeepers on the field on the same team.
I found some more precise information regarding the possibility of dribbling the ball like in basketball.
-5. Definition of bounce: "For a player who has caught the ball to play the ball against the ground with his hands and to catch it on return to his hands."
Change: This redefinition of the bounce has the effect that the "Basketball Type", bounce, per se, is not a foul.
A "double bounce" is not effected until the ball is "caught" on completion of the second bounce.-
So are the following actions legal or not?
1. I catch the ball and then start dribbling, basketball style but with one or two hands (two hands is illegal in basketball but is it also illegal in Gaelic football?) and then I stop dribbling and pass the ball away to a teammate.
2. I catch the ball and then start dribbling, basketball style, then I catch the ball as before but I start dribbling for a second time but in the end I will never catch the ball again but will hit it with one hand or foot to A. pass it to someone else, B. to score, C. to pass it to myself and then now catch it again in possession.
3. Or is the "second bounce" rule to be understood in this way: I catch the ball, start dribbling, basketball style, but now I can no longer catch the ball otherwise it will be a foul?
I didn't really understand the dynamics of the rule. For example, I catch the ball, bounce one time then, without catching the ball, I continue to dribble, but in the posted video it's a foul.
He didn't really loose control of the ball there in that clip, he bounced it and straight away bounced it again, he can have no complaints
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 13, 2024, 11:30:51 AMHe didn't really loose control of the ball there in that clip, he bounced it and straight away bounced it again, he can have no complaints
He looked like he was acting the ballix - foul
He was handy enough not to look guilty - no foul
Similar to interpretation of steps
What rule covers "acting the ballix"?
Quote from: Rossfan on September 13, 2024, 12:17:34 PMWhat rule covers "acting the ballix"?
One of them ones at discretion of the ref lol
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 13, 2024, 12:48:17 PMQuote from: Rossfan on September 13, 2024, 12:17:34 PMWhat rule covers "acting the ballix"?
One of them ones at discretion of the ref lol
Only one whistle, if someone is acting the ballix well, that's on him ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 13, 2024, 11:30:51 AMHe didn't really loose control of the ball there in that clip, he bounced it and straight away bounced it again, he can have no complaints
Quote from: tiempo on September 13, 2024, 11:39:38 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on September 13, 2024, 11:30:51 AMHe didn't really loose control of the ball there in that clip, he bounced it and straight away bounced it again, he can have no complaints
He looked like he was acting the ballix - foul
He was handy enough not to look guilty - no foul
Similar to interpretation of steps
But what would the new interpretation, which I posted above, mean?
I mean, I just can't understand when it is legal to dribble like in basketball and when it is not?
Is catching the ball and then starting to dribble like in basketball illegal?
Or would it be illegal when someone catches the ball, starts to dribble, basketball style, and then catches the ball again and starts to dribble again, that is, in short, the double dribble of basketball?I don't understand the dynamics of the foul? I mean, I just don't understand when this continuous bouncing is a foul or not.
Control of the ball and double bouncing is a foul. Not in control of ball and bouncing a 100 times is not a foul
It is a foul whenever the referee blows his whistle. Theoretical interpretation of the rules of gaelic football is a pointless pursuit.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 14, 2024, 11:44:13 AMControl of the ball and double bouncing is a foul. Not in control of ball and bouncing a 100 times is not a foul
But with "Control of the ball and double bouncing" do you mean when the player has caught the ball and holds it in his hand(s)?
So a player catches the ball with his hands, hops the ball on the ground and, without catching the ball that bounces, hops the ball again, over and over again, without ever catching it again on the rebound, legal or not?
According to the interpretation I posted it would be legal, right?
I mean I don't understand how the dribble is counted.
What do you mean instead with "Not in control of ball and bouncing a 100 times is not a foul", that is if the player does not catch the ball he can dribble in the basketball style? But how can you not catch the ball and dribble?
I had interpreted, understood the rule as if it were the double dribble rules of basketball. That is, you can catch the ball, bounce the ball as many times as you want, but you cannot interrupt the dribble, catch it again then start bouncing the ball again.
Is there a video tutorial that explains which bouncing is legal and which is not?
Quote from: GTP on September 14, 2024, 10:06:14 PMIt is a foul whenever the referee blows his whistle. Theoretical interpretation of the rules of gaelic football is a pointless pursuit.
Are you serious or are you joking? If the rules are not clear how can you play a sport?
Other than yourself I'm not sure anyone that plays the game doesn't understand that rule.
The point is that I come from Italy, where if you ask what Gaelic football is, no one knows.
Now me and some of my friends would like to play it and spread it here but we are having trouble understanding certain dynamics of the rules, you will agree with me that the rules are really poorly written. Like for example the limit to bouncing.
In the video I posted the player catches the ball, then does a hop, on the rebounce, instead of catching the ball again he does another hop and only at the end he catches the ball again. Now, following the official interpretation posted by me, in the men's game a "bounce" is completed once you retake possession of the ball (I want to clarify that the interpretation posted is not mine but the official one of the gaa)
you can hop it as often as you like once you don't catch it, or not?
Another doubt of mine: what is meant by this clarification to the rule?
"For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and
back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se,
is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on
completion of the second bounce"
&
"Definition: For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into
their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is
not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce"
and this one:
"4. A ball that has not been caught may be bounced more than once in succession with one or both hands."
So how can you bounce it if you don't catch it? Possible examples?
The rule could refer to this, so we interpreted it:
Player catches the ball, bounces it as many times as he wants, this would constitute only one bounce, then catches it, interrupting the dribble, and then tries to bounce it again but the double dribble would only apply when this new series of dribbles ends at the moment the player catches the ball again, this would be the second time. This would essentially be the same as the double dribble rule in basketball.
This is following the new and official interpretation:
"5. Definition of bounce: "For a player who has caught the ball to play the ball against the ground with his hands and to catch it on return to his hands."
Change: This redefinition of the bounce has the effect that the "Basketball Type", bounce, per se, is not a foul.
A "double bounce" is not effected until the ball is "caught" on completion of the second bounce." https://munster.gaa.ie/2010/05/playing-rule-changes-2010/ is this the case or are we wrong? Please try to answer all the questions.
Are you serious or are you joking? If the rules are not clear how can you play a sport?
I'm pretty serious. At a championship game yesterday a player bounced the ball did not take it in his hands, took a second bounce and caught the ball. No foul was given for this "dribble" and no one in the crowd complained or cared. If you are in doubt and want to play GAA then simply do not bounce the ball twice in a row. No player that I have ever seen has gained a tactical advantage from basketball style dribbling of the ball, it is irrelevant as to playing the game properly if this is a technical foul or not.
All sports have rules that can be picked apart and maybe this one can be interpreted in many ways, in any given match it will be for a referee to decide so any validation you get in here will not make a pile of difference if you were standing on a pitch when a foul is given or not given.
Quote from: GTP on September 16, 2024, 11:30:14 AMI'm pretty serious. At a championship game yesterday a player bounced the ball did not take it in his hands, took a second bounce and caught the ball. No foul was given for this "dribble" and no one in the crowd complained or cared. If you are in doubt and want to play GAA then simply do not bounce the ball twice in a row.
But in fact if you read the new interpretation of bounce the action, described by you, is absolutely legal, or so I believe.
The dribble should be counted like this, but I'm not sure:
First bounce: player catches the ball, he can hop it as often as he likes once he doesn't catch it, and finally he catches the ball again. These actions should constitute only one bounce. Instead if after all this he were to start dribbling again in this case it would be a second bounce (a kind of double dribble of basketball).
This is the sequence:
1 Bounce: catch, hop as often as he likes and catch. 2 Bounce: catch and hop again, but the second hop would be completed only when the player now catches the ball again.
That is, theoretically until he catches the second dribble the player, I believe, could hit the ball to pass, to score or even to pass it to himself.
But I don't know if this is all correct. That's why I asked for help from you who know much more than me.
Quote from: GTP on September 16, 2024, 11:30:14 AMNo player that I have ever seen has gained a tactical advantage from basketball style dribbling of the ball, it is irrelevant as to playing the game properly if this is a technical foul or not.
Being able to dribble like in basketball in certain situations could be much more advantageous than doing the traditional 4 steps, bounce, solo and so on.
For example, in a counterattack situation, a player catches the ball and would run much faster if he could catch the ball and then bounce it many times like in basketball.
Quote from: GTP on September 16, 2024, 11:30:14 AMAll sports have rules that can be picked apart and maybe this one can be interpreted in many ways, in any given match it will be for a referee to decide so any validation you get in here will not make a pile of difference if you were standing on a pitch when a foul is given or not given.
A sport that is not well regulated will never be able to spread worldwide. See the well-defined rules of soccer, volleyball or basketball.
Soccer does not have well defined rules - e.g. debate over if a foul is dangerous, reckless or just a foul leading to red card, yellow card or no action. And the interpretation of the handball rule which is also up for debate.
"Being able to dribble like in basketball in certain situations could be much more advantageous."
If it was advantageous players would be coached to do it and you would see this action during matches across the globe. You don't so whatever situation you envisage would be extremely limited.
"But in fact if you read the new interpretation of bounce the action, described by you, is absolutely legal"
In so far as I am aware it is legal to do multiple bounces of the ball without catching it. If that is the answer you seek stop asking the question.
Quote from: Gianni on September 17, 2024, 10:42:27 AMQuote from: GTP on September 16, 2024, 11:30:14 AMI'm pretty serious. At a championship game yesterday a player bounced the ball did not take it in his hands, took a second bounce and caught the ball. No foul was given for this "dribble" and no one in the crowd complained or cared. If you are in doubt and want to play GAA then simply do not bounce the ball twice in a row.
But in fact if you read the new interpretation of bounce the action, described by you, is absolutely legal, or so I believe.
The dribble should be counted like this, but I'm not sure:
First bounce: player catches the ball, he can hop it as often as he likes once he doesn't catch it, and finally he catches the ball again. These actions should constitute only one bounce. Instead if after all this he were to start dribbling again in this case it would be a second bounce (a kind of double dribble of basketball).
This is the sequence:
1 Bounce: catch, hop as often as he likes and catch. 2 Bounce: catch and hop again, but the second hop would be completed only when the player now catches the ball again.
That is, theoretically until he catches the second dribble the player, I believe, could hit the ball to pass, to score or even to pass it to himself.
But I don't know if this is all correct. That's why I asked for help from you who know much more than me.
Quote from: GTP on September 16, 2024, 11:30:14 AMNo player that I have ever seen has gained a tactical advantage from basketball style dribbling of the ball, it is irrelevant as to playing the game properly if this is a technical foul or not.
Being able to dribble like in basketball in certain situations could be much more advantageous than doing the traditional 4 steps, bounce, solo and so on.
For example, in a counterattack situation, a player catches the ball and would run much faster if he could catch the ball and then bounce it many times like in basketball.
Quote from: GTP on September 16, 2024, 11:30:14 AMAll sports have rules that can be picked apart and maybe this one can be interpreted in many ways, in any given match it will be for a referee to decide so any validation you get in here will not make a pile of difference if you were standing on a pitch when a foul is given or not given.
A sport that is not well regulated will never be able to spread worldwide. See the well-defined rules of soccer, volleyball or basketball.
With all due respect, when would dribbling the ball be more advantageous than catching the ball and securely holding it? Dribbling the ball leaves it away from the body and at more risk.
Quote from: GTP on September 17, 2024, 11:05:42 AMSoccer does not have well defined rules - e.g. debate over if a foul is dangerous, reckless or just a foul leading to red card, yellow card or no action. And the interpretation of the handball rule which is also up for debate.
Soccer has all the rules and a huge amount of exegesis. The point there is only to interpret the entity of the foul and the consequent sanction but not the rule of the foul itself, that is very clear. But now that is not our topic.
Quote from: GTP on September 17, 2024, 11:05:42 AMIf it was advantageous players would be coached to do it and you would see this action during matches across the globe. You don't so whatever situation you envisage would be extremely limited.
Anyway it would be an extra possibility for the player who has no defender in front of him. He would run much faster than the traditional bounce-4steps-solo and so on.
Quote from: GTP on September 17, 2024, 11:05:42 AMIn so far as I am aware it is legal to do multiple bounces of the ball without catching it. If that is the answer you seek stop asking the question.
Ok, so getting back to the topic, if you catch the ball with your hands can you only do one bounce?
No, because I, probably wrongly being a complete neophyte, had interpreted the rule, as well as the new official interpretation, like this: the player can catch the ball and start bouncing it, that is, catch the ball, start bouncing it, all legal, but an action similar to double dribbe in basketball would have been illegal, but is all that illegal?
Schematizing it all:
- catch ball, hop as many times as you want since you don't catch the ball again, finally catch the ball: legal (in my opinion).
- catch ball, hop as many times as you want since you don't catch it again, finally catch the ball again, interrupting the dribble, and restart bouncing the ball again: illegal (in my opinion).
Is all this wrong?
What does the interpretation I posted, the official one, mean?
"For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce" & "Definition: For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce" should the foul be called?
That is, the foul is whistled when he catches the ball that has bounced for the second time, i.e. the following:
- catch
- bounce
- rebound without catching it
- bounce second time
- recapture the ball,
at this moment the foul is whistled.
But if he hadn't picked up the ball again, would the foul still have been called?
Maybe he could have continued to bounce it, hit it to pass it to someone else, to score or to pass it to himself, what in these cases?Can you give examples of how the ball can be bounced without catching it first?
I'll try to imagine how, correct me if I'm wrong please.
1. The player blocks the ball with one or two hands without catching it, the ball bounces from the hand(s) and continues on the ground so the player can continue to bounce it, correct?
2. The ball is already bouncing on the ground by itself and the player accompanies the movement by bouncing it as many times as he wants? Even along the entire length of the court?
[/quote]
With all due respect, when would dribbling the ball be more advantageous than catching the ball and securely holding it? Dribbling the ball leaves it away from the body and at more risk.
[/quote]
Precisely why prohibit something that would give greater spectacle and speed but at the same time would give more chances of losing the ball? That is, it is really almost impossible for someone to steal the ball. But in counterattack it is very advantageous to run by bouncing only.
Please to close the topic I beg you to answer all my questions.
Gianni your fascination with the double bounce is admirable but your posts are, with respect, incomprehensible and impossible to answer.
Good luck finding an answer to your quest
I try to make the question as simple and understandable as possible.
Are these sequences of actions legal or not?
1. catch the ball -> bounce many times without ever catching it like baskteball -> catch the ball again: legal or not?
2. catch the ball -> bounce many times without ever catching it like basketball -> I catch the ball again and then start bouncing it again like in basketball: legal or not?
3. catch the ball -> bounce many times without ever catching it like in basketball -> on the rebound I hit it with a hand or other part of the body to:
A. Pass it to a teammate
B. Score
C. Pass it to myself (similar to Clifford's action, he takes possession and hops the ball. After the hop he flicks it up in the air and catches it before it bounces. Maybe I would have thought this would be similar to handpassing the ball over someone's head and catching it.
But only here, in my example, the player dribbles it several times first).
legal or not?
Added to all this is the new official interpretation:
"For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce" & "Definition: For a player to play the ball against the ground with their hand(s) and back into their hands twice again except the basketball bounce, per se, is not a foul. A double bounce is not effected until the ball is caught on completion of the second bounce"
source: https://munster.gaa.ie/2010/05/playing-rule-changes-2010/
What does it mean? What does it mean for the game?
That's it. I'm afraid the rules don't provide official answers.
Jeez, we're still on about the bouncing
Quote from: JoG2 on September 19, 2024, 02:44:43 PMJeez, we're still on about the bouncing
When will Gianni get to the tackling?
That will be fun!
Quote from: johnnycool on September 19, 2024, 02:49:36 PMQuote from: JoG2 on September 19, 2024, 02:44:43 PMJeez, we're still on about the bouncing
When will Gianni get to the tackling?
That will be fun!
😁.. A hundred pager!
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/09/21/malachy-clerkin-managers-always-moan-about-new-rules-but-they-might-be-right-this-time/
Malachy Clerkin: Managers always moan about new rules, but they might be right this time
Malachy Clerkin
Sat Sept 21 2024 - 06:00
•
•
•
•
•
o
o
o
o
o
o
There may be moaning ahead. Actually, who are we kidding? There's no "may" about it. There will be moaning ahead. There always is. There'll be moaning, noon and night. We're all bound for moaning town. Baby, we were born to moan.
Okay, that last one didn't really work. It was an earnest attempt that came up short, despite good intentions. Think of it as a kind of tribute to how tricky it's going to be over the coming months to get everything to align perfectly.
We speak, of course, of the coming changes to Gaelic football, a game which is simultaneously the most loved and hated thing in Irish sport. A completely precious, cherished slice of our national culture. And at the same time, a thoroughly beaten-down object of derision and ballyragging.
Lately, as we all know, the balance has tilted inexorably towards the latter. Nobody holds back when they're talking about football these days. "The game itself is appalling," said Niall Moyna in the Examiner during the week. "It's probably the most boring game in the world to watch."
Niall Moyna, the Louth selector. That's Louth, this year's Leinster runners-up and All-Ireland quarter-finalists, the county that just got four All-Star nominations in a single year for the first time in the history of the scheme. Louth have been a great story and are a credit to their people but they're nobody's idea of the great entertainers.
If anything, you'd have thought a team like Louth would have a vested interest in keeping the game as boring as possible for as long as possible. But that's where we are — the era of massed defence and dropping off and grinding periods of possession is dreary even to those in the middle of it all. Maybe even especially to them.
Deep in the background of all this, Jim Gavin's Football Review Committee (FRC) is beavering away. We are fast approaching the point at which the rubber of their deliberations meets the road of the public getting to see how it all might work in real life. The interprovincial games under the proposed new rules are fixed for Croke Park in four weeks and already the stakes feel weirdly high. Help us, Obi-Jim. You're our only hope.
Sligo manager Tony McEntee has said the Football Review Committee has been set up to succeed. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
As has been noted by Sligo manager Tony McEntee among others, at every step along the way the FRC has been set up to succeed. Jarlath Burns spent his first bit of political capital on setting the committee up straight out of the gate. The roll call of football big brains on the list was unimpeachable. Everything about it screamed: "The top brass wants this done so let's get it done!"
Even the initial survey was very clearly weighted towards the notion that the game is broken. One of the questions listed a series of aspects of the game — cynical fouling, continuous handpassing, overly defensive play, among others — and asked respondents to say whether they liked or disliked them. As McEntee notes, there was no option to say, "I don't mind."
[ Seán Moran: Let's hope Jim Gavin's FRC isn't the latest example of squandered expertiseOpens in new window ]
And you know what? The vast majority of people are fine with that. Whatever misgivings they might have about a casually gerrymandered survey are outweighed by their desire for change. They're beyond pussy-footing around with the game and tinkering at its edges. They're willing to try something big and new and radical.
But now. Now we approach the point where the moaning begins. History has taught us that the greatest hurdle new playing rules ever have to cross is always the intercounty managers whose jobs depend on the players trying to implement them.
Limiting handpasses, the black card, the drag-down penalty — all of them were met with a cavalcade of moaning managers early in life. In some cases, it killed the experiment off at birth. In others, it became the soundtrack to years of teething problems.
Self-interest is always at the heart of the moaning. It's not that the managers were ever all that dogmatic about the merits or otherwise of the new rules themselves. It's just that they would much rather say rules came in at some undefined time, away in the future. Preferably about five years hence, when they're coining it on a pundits' couch. It was therefore easy to dismiss any and all moaning that arose.
With the momentum that has been gathering behind the FRC, it felt like the moaning might be a little less pronounced this time around. For one thing, there aren't many managers on the circuit who would feel comfortable taking a swipe at Jim Gavin in public. For another, plenty of them know the game is an eyesore and that something has to be done about it.
But there's a genuine problem on the horizon, brought about only in the past fortnight or so. First, it was the scrapping of the preseason competitions. That was followed a few days ago by an official GAA letter going out to county boards saying that intercounty training can't begin until December 7th. Good, progressive, player-centred moves. But a huge pain for any manager trying to get a handle on the new rules.
Essentially what the GAA is telling them is that if the FRC proposals get through Special Congress at the end of November, the first time players will experience them for real is the opening day of the league in January. Since the league and championship have become linked, there's no such thing as sacking off the spring competition any more. These games matter more than ever. A score here and there can dictate the rest of the season.
So for once, the managers can feel perfectly entitled to their grievances. They have a fortnight's training in December, followed by three weeks in January, with a few challenge matches here and there to get their players used to a whole new way of playing. It will feel like trying to learn Chinese by sticking on Duolingo for the first time on the plane to Beijing.
They will moan about it. They will be right to do so. If that sways the delegates enough to reject the proposals at Special Congress, scrapping the preseason tournaments at such a delicate moment will be an awful ball to have dropped.
A number of the club championship matches over the weekend seemed to be affected by a strong wind favouring one team in each half. Under the proposed new rules which t quote the BBC website
"will reward long-range shooting with scores from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points"
Is there any incentive for a team playing against the wind to come out of the 40 metre arc?
As I see it the best choice is to limit goal chances and force teams to shoot from distance. Even with the possibility of 2 points for the score from outside the arc, would the majority of club teams (at all levels) have a set of regular scorers from this distance.
Quote from: GTP on October 09, 2024, 08:25:25 AMA number of the club championship matches over the weekend seemed to be affected by a strong wind favouring one team in each half. Under the proposed new rules which t quote the BBC website
"will reward long-range shooting with scores from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points"
Is there any incentive for a team playing against the wind to come out of the 40 metre arc?
As I see it the best choice is to limit goal chances and force teams to shoot from distance. Even with the possibility of 2 points for the score from outside the arc, would the majority of club teams (at all levels) have a set of regular scorers from this distance.
I've no idea what this change is going to do to improve the quality of the game. I really think they all must have sat in a small air tight room and smoked a few joints and came up with these ideas!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2024, 11:13:05 AMQuote from: GTP on October 09, 2024, 08:25:25 AMA numberof the club championship matches over the weekend seemed to be affected by a strong wind favouring one team in each half. Under the proposed new rules which t quote the BBC website
"will reward long-range shooting with scores from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points"
Is there any incentive for a team playing against the wind to come out of the 40 metre arc?
As I see it the best choice is to limit goal chances and force teams to shoot from distance. Even with the possibility of 2 points for the score from outside the arc, would the majority of club teams (at all levels) have a set of regular scorers from this distance.
I've no idea what this change is going to do to improve the quality of the game. I really think they all must have sat in a small air tight room and smoked a few joints and came up with these ideas!
100%, no idea why the need for it, god help referees at club level, I'm sure introducing these rules will ensure lads banging down the door to take it up. Only 1 I actually like is the quick free to yourself, should stop nightly fouls, rest are ac waste of time.
Was gonna call the trial games glorified friendlies but they are actually less than that. The danger is people watch them and think it's the rules are making the game flow when in reality it's the fact nobody actually cares about the score and playing like a game of 5 a side.
True.
The only focus in these games will be the new rules.
You'd have to see them in a real situation where the main focus would be on winning the game.
The tap and go is a good idea.
Also moving the ball further for dissent, blocking free etc.
NO to arc, 2 pointers and 4 point goals.
My instinct is totally against the must have 3 back and 3 forward.
If they rush into implementing most of the new proposals it could make a right fk up of the NFL.
Was illogical to drop the FBD, etc in this particular year and circumstances. 2026 would have done fine.
One thing on the new rules that makes me hopeful is that at least the people involved all football people which is a massive improvement on the utter farce that is the Standing Rules Committee which has had the same people making rules for both hurling and football.
Also when you compare the calibre of the football people involved in the FRC compared to the SRC it is world's apart in terms of those who are involved at the top level coal-face of football.
If I was running things, the first thing I would do is scrap the Standing Rules Committee and set up two separate rules committees with one for football and one for hurling. I think it would improve things for both games.
Any talk I've heard from people involved with the FRC has been seriously positive. They seem to be far more interested in being pitch/field/game based and trying things out and seeing what actually works in games compared to the SRC which historically has been far more concerned about working things out around a committee-room table.
Also for anyone interested tickets for the provincial trials games are available on ticketmaster now.
They will be on TG4/RTE as well.
QuoteJim Gavin: 'We've danced around' respect problem on pitch for long time
The legendary former Dublin boss has been encouraged by the quality of his Football Review Committee's trial games.
Jim Gavin: 'We've danced around' respect problem on pitch for long time
Jim Gavin was speaking after the latest "sandbox" games between Cavan and Kildare in Mullahoran this past weekend. Pic Maxwell's
Tue, 08 Oct, 2024 - 08:52
John Fogarty
�
�
�
Football Review Committee (FRC) chairman Jim Gavin believes the GAA have been "dancing around" their initiative of showing respect to officials and players.
Dublin's six-time All-Ireland SFC winning manager Gavin has been greatly encouraged by the quality of the FRC trial games as players have had to hand the ball to a fouled opponent. Failing to do so results in a free being brought forward 50m.
Speaking after the latest "sandbox" games between Cavan and Kildare in Mullahoran this past weekend, Gavin believes the "solo and go" option for an offended player and dissent punishment are contributing to quicker games.
"Players were either putting the ball on the ground, giving it to the referee, throwing it in the air or rolling it to the side and the purpose of that is to delay the play," he told "Shannonside FM". "When you hand the ball to the player, the player can immediately take a solo and go or a free.
"It speeds the game and if you don't do it, it's a halfway line penalty. We have these new rules, very subtle ones but (aimed) to deincentivise delayed ball. Deincentivise players speaking, dissent – there wasn't a peep out of anyone there today.
"That 'give respect, get respect', we've danced around it for a long time. We say the standard you walk by is the standard you expect and we've walking around dissent a long time. We have an opportunity now to tidy it up." Ahead of Thursday's finalised rules launch and next week's interprovincial games in Croke Park that will be played under them, Gavin reiterated his hope that the "rule enchancements" are adopted in full by Central Council later this month. They will then go forward to be voted on at Special Congress on November 30.
Mentioning the rule change that three outfield players from each team must remain behind the halfway line at all times, Gavin acknowledged it will be difficult to implement at club level initially but insisted: "If it doesn't (pass), there are interdependencies. If those three players don't need to be up, that kicking pass game that you saw today won't be there because there is nobody up there to kick it to.
"We believe it's a fundamental part of the game and it speaks to the tradition when we look back at games of the past. We're not saying you need to keep a bit of structure in terms of three players being up."
QuoteProposed new Gaelic football rules to be confirmed this week but tweaks still being made
Football Review Committee member James Horan explained that the 'three up' rule has been modified while it seems the proposal to replace penalties with an overtime showdown will not go ahead.
Proposed new Gaelic football rules to be confirmed this week but tweaks still being made
MUNSTER'S MAN: Cork manager John Cleary will be in charge of the Munster team in the upcoming Football Review Committee interprovincial gaes. Pic: Ray McManus/Sportsfile
Tue, 08 Oct, 2024 - 07:30
Maurice Brosnan
�
�
�
Cork manager John Cleary has confirmed that managers and coaches from every Munster county will be involved on his ticket ahead of the Football Review Committee (FRC) interprovincial tournament in Croke Park later this month.
Cleary takes charge of the province while Galway's Pádraic Joyce is over Connacht. Fermanagh manager Kieran Donnelly is Ulster manager and Leinster's is Dessie Dolan.
Speaking on the Irish Examiner Gaelic football podcast, Cleary said they will train together this week ahead of the televised games on October 19 and 20.
"How it came about is that Jack O'Connor is Kerry manager and they won the provincial, but he was unavailable. Jim asked me then to do it. I have Jimmy Lee, Paul Shankey, Philly Ryan and Cian O'Neill on board. Colm Collins is filling in at the moment for (managerless) Clare.
"We meet late tonight and we'll send an email to see who is available from each county because there is a lot of people still involved in the club championship. You have to have two from each county at least, that is probably the first 12 places gone on the panel."
He continued: "The rules will be explained to us on Saturday morning and then maybe an hour on the pitch to go through it. You maybe won't have all the players, there is a lot of games next weekend and there could be players who we want to bring the following weekend who are available."
The finalised rules will be confirmed this week.
Speaking on the podcast, former Mayo manager and FRC member James Horan explained that the 'three up' rule has been modified. A halfway line will be used instead of the 65m line with a new pitch marking proposed.
He also suggested the proposal to replace penalties with an overtime showdown will not go ahead.
"I'm not sure that will be going forward. We have a seventh sandbox game on Saturday, Cavan played Kildare in a cracking game. We'd a number of experienced intercounty players on both sides, obviously new guys too. The questioning they do and their level of understanding is top notch. Really smart players pick it up quickly," said Horan.
"The overtime showdown, it is something we tried. Some will make it through and some won't. We will have a final review of this. It wasn't breeze related but that is a valid concern, it was tired players, decision making and skill execution is down. So, there is too much variable in time. It went on for seven or eight minutes before the first shot. With that amount of variability and whatever, we have to take it aside and tease through it. I'd say that is under serious discussion."
Horan said last weekend's trial game was received positively.
"I was talking to James Burke the coach and Daniel Flynn from Kildare as well, firstly the main thing is they really enjoyed the game. Daniel Flynn was playing at six actually. Imagine his power and pace coming onto the ball. It was interesting already managers are trying lads in different positions.
"Because kickouts have to go outside the 40-metre arch and the three-up, pressing kickouts is a whole different level. It is a longer kickout even if you have to go short and they have to keep three up so kickouts are more contested.
"Cavan kept two players at times behind the (Kildare) goalkeeper taking the kickout which you can do. Then four pressed six taking a chance. So if they won it, they could bomb it into the two guys. There was all this brilliant stuff, fellas thinking through it and trying to find an advantage. Teams that embrace them and really explore them for their benefit could really get a jump."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41491415.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41491472.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41491280.html
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on October 09, 2024, 11:59:40 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2024, 11:13:05 AMQuote from: GTP on October 09, 2024, 08:25:25 AMA numberof the club championship matches over the weekend seemed to be affected by a strong wind favouring one team in each half. Under the proposed new rules which t quote the BBC website
"will reward long-range shooting with scores from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points"
Is there any incentive for a team playing against the wind to come out of the 40 metre arc?
As I see it the best choice is to limit goal chances and force teams to shoot from distance. Even with the possibility of 2 points for the score from outside the arc, would the majority of club teams (at all levels) have a set of regular scorers from this distance.
I've no idea what this change is going to do to improve the quality of the game. I really think they all must have sat in a small air tight room and smoked a few joints and came up with these ideas!
100%, no idea why the need for it, god help referees at club level, I'm sure introducing these rules will ensure lads banging down the door to take it up. Only 1 I actually like is the quick free to yourself, should stop nightly fouls, rest are ac waste of time.
Was gonna call the trial games glorified friendlies but they are actually less than that. The danger is people watch them and think it's the rules are making the game flow when in reality it's the fact nobody actually cares about the score and playing like a game of 5 a side.
How can anyone possibly complain about this? Rossfan you are just as bad for agreeing really. Fair play to the FRC for trying to improve our game. Ofcourse most of these rules are silly and will not be implemented, but if we can even find 1 or 2 that improve our game then hey what a success.
Using these games to trial the rules (which is broadcast on national tv) is a great idea. The FRC also put out an in-depth survey to all watchers/members of GAA asking what they currently like/dislike about the current game as a spectacle, and im sure they will gauge the reaction of these upcoming games of both the players and anyone who watches it.
The FRC is made up of a number of very intelligent football men, not a couple of gimps wearing suits. I am all for it.
You're all for it but then you say most of the rules are silly and won't be implemented?!,
Nothing about the handpass, throw points or "push" goals.
Does anything in the new proposals stop sideways backwards passing or the other team standing back letting them at it?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2024, 01:03:12 PMYou're all for it but then you say most of the rules are silly and won't be implemented?!,
Nothing about the handpass, throw points or "push" goals.
Does anything in the new proposals stop sideways backwards passing or the other team standing back letting them at it?
Is there currently a rule that you can throw a point? What's wrong with "push" goals?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2024, 01:03:12 PMYou 're all for it but then you say most of the rules are silly and won't be implemented?!,
Nothing about the handpass, throw points or "push" goals.
Does anything in the new proposals stop sideways backwards passing or the other team standing back letting them at it?
Exactly, at least if they were tried in preseason comps players would be building for something and it would give a better indication.
The 2 point and 4 pt for a goal are insane, it will do nothing to close the gap, if anything it'll widen hammerings for the bigger counties.
It'll also make refereeing club games much more difficult.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 09, 2024, 01:45:55 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2024, 01:03:12 PMYou're all for it but then you say most of the rules are silly and won't be implemented?!,
Nothing about the handpass, throw points or "push" goals.
Does anything in the new proposals stop sideways backwards passing or the other team standing back letting them at it?
Is there currently a rule that you can throw a point? What's wrong with "push" goals?
Think the distinction between throwing a ball and pushing it is clear enough? To throw the ball the player will have taken possession of the ball? and pushing it means he hasn't taken possession of the ball and steers it into the net? a bit like if two midfielders climb to contest the ball at the throw in and one player palms the ball to his midfield partner?
Not sure what you mean about the difference?
I'm not convinced new rules will improve the game - the forward mark has done nothing to bring about high fielding but will linger on under the latest set of rules. The black card is a good idea but isn't implemented consistently and players now drag someone back rather than down when making a tactical foul, so it doesn't achieve one of its primary objectives.
You have the further problem of identifying which rules are making things better when more than 1 is introduced to a sport at a time. We can watch the trial games and think great more long distance shooting and a less packed defence - but is it a result of the new arc, keeping players up the pitch, a mixture of both or simply an artificial effect of the game being a friendly.
As well intentioned and well informed as those introducing the rules are they cannot possibly consider the effect on all levels of the game. My feeling is they have concentrated on county football not what effect it will have on a wet and windy night up at Owenbeg between two junior teams.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2024, 01:03:12 PMYou're all for it but then you say most of the rules are silly and won't be implemented?!,
Nothing about the handpass, throw points or "push" goals.
Does anything in the new proposals stop sideways backwards passing or the other team standing back letting them at it?
Which part of that can you not comprehend? These games will not just find rules that work but also find the rules that don't really work.
If they come up with 1/2 rules that improve the game like i mentioned then im all for it.
Quote from: samuel maguire on October 09, 2024, 02:27:57 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2024, 01:03:12 PMYou're all for it but then you say most of the rules are silly and won't be implemented?!,
Nothing about the handpass, throw points or "push" goals.
Does anything in the new proposals stop sideways backwards passing or the other team standing back letting them at it?
Which part of that can you not comprehend? These games will not just find rules that work but also find the rules that don't really work.
If they come up with 1/2 rules that improve the game like i mentioned then im all for it.
Will they though ? It's teams thrown together basically playing challenge games. Wait till the likes of McGuinness and O'Connor get a winter to prepare for the changes and then we will see what will work or won't work.
Quote from: Cavan19 on October 09, 2024, 02:40:38 PMWill they though ? It's teams thrown together basically playing challenge games. Wait till the likes of McGuinness and O'Connor get a winter to prepare for the changes and then we will see what will work or won't work.
That's the thing this will be tippy-tappy football with no intensity, no real structure of play, no structure of defending or attacking. Just a bunch of decent footballers having the craic.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 09, 2024, 03:08:08 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on October 09, 2024, 02:40:38 PMWill they though ? It's teams thrown together basically playing challenge games. Wait till the likes of McGuinness and O'Connor get a winter to prepare for the changes and then we will see what will work or won't work.
That's the thing this will be tippy-tappy football with no intensity, no real structure of play, no structure of defending or attacking. Just a bunch of decent footballers having the craic.
Nothing wrong with that, but at least we'll be able to weed out some of the rules suggested and then next year can maybe bring in one or two decent ones. They need to look at the the forward mark and black card as neither are doing much for the game.
That's the problem-using 4 "tippy tappy' games as a final trial and then Special Congress November and implemented in January which will be 1st serious trial in a real game.
I have no problem with a public trial as planned but the headlong rush based on challenge games.....
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 09, 2024, 03:16:29 PMQuote from: From the Bunker on October 09, 2024, 03:08:08 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on October 09, 2024, 02:40:38 PMWill they though ? It's teams thrown together basically playing challenge games. Wait till the likes of McGuinness and O'Connor get a winter to prepare for the changes and then we will see what will work or won't work.
That's the thing this will be tippy-tappy football with no intensity, no real structure of play, no structure of defending or attacking. Just a bunch of decent footballers having the craic.
Nothing wrong with that, but at least we'll be able to weed out some of the rules suggested and then next year can maybe bring in one or two decent ones. They need to look at the the forward mark and black card as neither are doing much for the game.
But there is something wrong with it if people use it as justification to bring in rule changes. The scoring change won't work. The 2 men for a throw in is grand but is that really a problem at the min? The kick out has the potential to be a disaster with weather.
I agree that the forward mark should go, but if anything they are making it even more favourable for the forward in the trial rules
Will watch the games with an open mind but am skeptical on several of them. Solo and Go is the only one I'm genuinely keen on.
There's a big series of explainers on the RTE website with Gavin and Fitzmaurice. Fitzmaurice himself contradicts the proposed new kickout rule when discussing penalties for players interfering with the keeper by, for example, "staying inside the 20m line." Under the proposed rule, players can explicitly remain inside the 20m line.
The vanishing foam to mark where the free kick should be taken should be a no brainer to introduce. The yards being stole by free kick takers is getting worse. I am not sure why referees aren't penalising this as it is.
Yeah, stuff like that is a no brainer. Same for clamping down on dissent and being more punitive about tactical fouling. However, that's all largely run of the mill stuff that you might see year to year at Congress. What is much more interesting/potentially impactful is what the FRC are calling the 7 Core Enhancements, where, to my mind anyway, they're really actively trying to change gameplay to, as they see it, improve the spectacle.
1) 1v1 throw ins - don't think this is the issue it's made out to be
2) Kickouts - as above
3) Goalkeeper backpass
4) 2 point arc and scoring system
5) 3v3 structure
6) Solo and go
7 Advanced mark. I'd prefer they simply got rid of it altogether. Don't like fact that there's essentially unlimited advantage at the referee's discretion and that reward for executing a skill is so heavily weighted towards attacking players.
Good explainer here
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1009/1474500-running-the-rule-proposed-changes-to-gaelic-football/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1009/1474500-running-the-rule-proposed-changes-to-gaelic-football/)
Must say I like the bit of argybargy for the 4 man throw in, about the only time a bit of physicality is still allowed.
Quote from: gallsman on October 10, 2024, 09:30:34 AMYeah, stuff like that is a no brainer. Same for clamping down on dissent and being more punitive about tactical fouling. However, that's all largely run of the mill stuff that you might see year to year at Congress. What is much more interesting/potentially impactful is what the FRC are calling the 7 Core Enhancements, where, to my mind anyway, they're really actively trying to change gameplay to, as they see it, improve the spectacle.
1) 1v1 throw ins - don't think this is the issue it's made out to be
2) Kickouts - as above
3) Goalkeeper backpass
4) 2 point arc and scoring system
5) 3v3 structure
6) Solo and go
7 Advanced mark. I'd prefer they simply got rid of it altogether. Don't like fact that there's essentially unlimited advantage at the referee's discretion and that reward for executing a skill is so heavily weighted towards attacking players.
You're 100% right, the small things are easy, but these 7 core changes are radical and really will change the game and not really for the better.
1) 1v1 throw ins - i have literally never heard anyone complain about this and i mean ever, just change for change sake. It's something that happens twice in a game.
2) Kickouts - this one annoys me when i think about other sports. All other team games when conceding a score you get the ball and get to reset as you see fit. We are telling a team they then have to play ball out and make it contested, that's mental to me, it'll be great for the spectacle when smaller counties are constantly firing long kickouts after conceding goals and not getting a chance to get hands on the ball and settle.
3) Goalkeeper backpass - its something that has crept into the game, might just stop some keepers coming out then fair enough, id be more inclined to stop keepers coming up to take frees to waste a load of time
4) 2 point arc and scoring system- in Antrim at some levels were lucky to have sidelines marked for some games lol. But more importantly again favours bigger counties, wont stop a blanket defence its just going to change where they engage. But 4pts for a goal 100% favours bigger teams, will widen scores rather than close them.
5) 3v3 structure- think it be hard to police in club, hate anything that changes the game from club to county
6) Solo and go- very much in favour as it nullifies the tactical drag backs as players break outta defence
7 Advanced mark.- basically giving a massive advantage to forwards, you catch a ball clean you've basically a score, ruins the art of 1 on 1 defending
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 10, 2024, 10:11:02 AMMust say I like the bit of argybargy for the 4 man throw in, about the only time a bit of physicality is still allowed.
Instead of a 2 v 2 throw in argybargy, the second midfielder will drop back to his 50 yard line , where he'll help his CHB wrestle with the opposition's CHF. Same on the other 50.
So it's just moving the problem. I say problem, a bit of pushing and shoving at the throw in hardly the worst thing in the game.
It just sounds like new rules for new rules sake
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 10, 2024, 10:11:02 AMMust say I like the bit of argybargy for the 4 man throw in, about the only time a bit of physicality is still allowed.
Tyrone did a video session with their midfielders a couple of years ago on the throw in, based on analysis of the ref in question, their technique and how high the ball usually went.
The game is fvcking couped lads.
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 10, 2024, 10:24:15 AMQuote from: Keyser soze on October 10, 2024, 10:11:02 AMMust say I like the bit of argybargy for the 4 man throw in, about the only time a bit of physicality is still allowed.
Instead of a 2 v 2 throw in argybargy, the second midfielder will drop back to his 50 yard line , where he'll help his CHB wrestle with the opposition's CHF. Same on the other 50.
So it's just moving the problem. I say prob, a bit of pushing and shoving at the throw in hardly the worst thing in the game.
It just sounds like new rules for new rules sake
The 2nd midfielders actually start the game off the field at either side of the pitch strangely enough.
Quote from: Cavan19 on October 10, 2024, 10:25:51 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 10, 2024, 10:24:15 AMQuote from: Keyser soze on October 10, 2024, 10:11:02 AMMust say I like the bit of argybargy for the 4 man throw in, about the only time a bit of physicality is still allowed.
Instead of a 2 v 2 throw in argybargy, the second midfielder will drop back to his 50 yard line , where he'll help his CHB wrestle with the opposition's CHF. Same on the other 50.
So it's just moving the problem. I say prob, a bit of pushing and shoving at the throw in hardly the worst thing in the game.
It just sounds like new rules for new rules sake
The 2nd midfielders actually start the game off the field at either side of the pitch strangely enough.
Ah ffs. This just gets worse
These FRC boys needs chasing
The 1 v 1 throw in may be one of the sacrificial lambs in this set of rule changes - oh we looked at some changes and dropped them but here is a bunch we are keeping. No one seems to have thought it was broken so why fix it and with something that appears totally artificial with one player on each side not being involved in the game at all.
If they looked at the throw up during the match that might be useful – 4 in for it with the rest clearing the area might make it cleaner. The current two standing in the middle of a bunch of players does not represent a good way of re-starting the game.
In fairness, if you don't even bother your hoop reading the proposals, you can't really whine about them.
Not that this should be the be all and end all, but in terms of the 40m arc and the 3v3 I'd be worried not just about the ability to police it, but the potential for uproar when someone gets it wrong. Rian O'Neill might kick a two point score in the final seconds to steal an all Ireland, but replays afterwards show his big toe was on the line! Things like that will lead to video replay down the line.
This 3 players up top is nonsense.
Let's say the ball is hoofed out of defence , and a forward runs towards the ball , but stops at the 50 yard line like he's reached the edge of a cliff, and can't go any further because that would mean only two players are within the 50
How are officials supposed to police that? And how are players supposed to suppress their natural instincts to go for a ball, then stop going for the ball?
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 10, 2024, 12:28:08 PMThis 3 players up top is nonsense.
Let's say the ball is hoofed out of defence , and a forward runs towards the ball , but stops at the 50 yard line like he's reached the edge of a cliff, and can't go any further because that would mean only two players are within the 50
How are officials supposed to police that? And how are players supposed to suppress their natural instincts to go for a ball, then stop going for the ball?
Same way they stop for the sideline, end line etc etc??
All in all I like the sound of them. I wasn't planning to watch the provincial matches but likely will now out of curiosity. The solo and go and 2 points outside 40m I really like.
They are really going to try and get these through so when watching these trial games think of how they would impact all games, positively and negatively.
Remember these games are between the best players, with the best officials, in the best stadium in a non competitive game.
How will they work in the vast majority of games that take place?
For me some are workable and some aren't but I will watch and listen with an open mind.
They need to look at the competition structures just as much. There is no point in division 1 teams meeting division 4, even division 3 teams. The only hope those teams have is to keep it tight. These rules would see teams being obliterated.
Some if not all the changes
One v one throw-in commencing each half.
Kick-outs to be allowed to be taken before all players are outside the 20-metre line.
The kick-out must travel beyond the new 40m arc.
In his own half, a goalkeeper can only receive the ball from a team-mate inside the large rectangle. In the opponents' half, they can receive it freely.
Each team must keep three outfield players in each half at all times.
The advanced mark to be reduced to a ball caught cleanly by an attacker or defender inside the 20m line from a kick from inside the 45m. The ball may be played immediately unless the referee deems no advantage has occurred.
Two points awarded for a kick from on or outside the 40m arc that splits the post.
The value of a goal to increase from three to four points.
A 50m penalty for a tactical foul delaying or interfering a free or sideline kick.
A player who commits a foul must hand the ball to a member of the other team in "a prompt and respectful manner";
The "solo and go" option for a player who is awarded a free. A team-mate of the fouled player may take it. A "solo and go" can only be taken within the 20m lines.
An attacking player to be able to enter the small rectangle (square) as soon as a free-kick is taken.
Holding up a player, either in possession of the ball is not, becomes a black card offence.
Head-on-head, shoulder-on-head and elbow-on-head all to become red card offences.
Contributing to a melee, a black card offence, is considered anything but a third or more player not removing a team-mate away from the incident.
Advantage rule's five-second time limit to be removed. Advantage will be applied at the referee's discretion.
A 50m penalty for showing dissent at a referee's decision.
At all levels up to U18, a black card for showing dissent at a referee's decision.
Stop clock/hooter, operated by fifth official on direction on referee, to be applied to games. The end of each half will be confirmed with the blow of the hooter with some exceptions.
Linesmen (line umpires) to be allowed to bring any foul play immediately to the attention of the referee.
Only captains or nominated deputies to be permitted to seek clarification about decisions taken by referees.
Quote from: gallsman on October 10, 2024, 10:45:42 AMIn fairness, if you don't even bother your hoop reading the proposals, you can't really whine about them.
Not that this should be the be all and end all, but in terms of the 40m arc and the 3v3 I'd be worried not just about the ability to police it, but the potential for uproar when someone gets it wrong. Rian O'Neill might kick a two point score in the final seconds to steal an all Ireland, but replays afterwards show his big toe was on the line! Things like that will lead to video replay down the line.
Yep. Or he was a half inch outside the line, but the ref disallowed it.
Cue the wailing:
"But the ref shouldn't call it unless he's absolutely sure!!"
He gets one look. In real time. He has to call it either way. Right, wrong, false positive, false negative.
This will be a nightmare. I pity the poor refs given the ridiculous abuse they already get.
We'll need 2 "arc umpires" and 2 "count the players" umpires giving us 11 match officials per game...
Anything to be said for 20:20 vision?
Quote from: square_ball on October 10, 2024, 09:13:56 AMThe vanishing foam to mark where the free kick should be taken should be a no brainer to introduce. The yards being stole by free kick takers is getting worse. I am not sure why referees aren't penalising this as it is.
Taking a few yards is done by both teams and not punished, so its only a problem for the team that hasn't got a free, as they don't complain when their own free taker does the same thing, unpunished.
But I've said the foam is a good option as its a physical line they see, also the referee's watch could be blue-toothed to the clock at pitch side, so when he stops his watch for subs/injuries then the supporters can see, exactly what time is left, rather than 'injury time' once the clock hits 30 (per half) whistle blown.
Cuts out that crying from supporters and management about added time and so on
I honestly don't think a point from 41 metres should be double the value of a point from 38 or 39 metres. I can see this leading to a lot of teams boringly trying to work the ball to their 2 or 3 long kickers who will be sitting around the 50 metre mark waiting for the opening for a shot.
Surely a goal from that distance should be worth 6?
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 10, 2024, 10:11:02 AMMust say I like the bit of argybargy for the 4 man throw in, about the only time a bit of physicality is still allowed.
Maybe get the Bishop to throw in the ball like the good old days ;D
Quote from: tiempo on October 10, 2024, 01:58:38 PMSurely a goal from that distance should be worth 6?
Think it's all goals are worth 4.
From a defensive point of view surely work could have been done to define the tackling and one on one tackles, shoulders etc for these rules changes
One of the main reasons teams pack the defense is because players can no longer win the ball one on one without fouls being given and so the only method we get now is swarming of 4 or 5 players on one and a free given. Which really is quite new and nonsensical based on the rules.
Quote from: lenny on October 10, 2024, 01:50:39 PMI honestly don't think a point from 41 metres should be double the value of a point from 38 or 39 metres. I can see this leading to a lot of teams boringly trying to work the ball to their 2 or 3 long kickers who will be sitting around the 50 metre mark waiting for the opening for a shot.
Can't remember whether it was Fitzmaurice or Gavin, but one of them mentioned that in some of the sandbox games they've had to date, some players were actively working the ball out behind the 40m line when you might otherwise not expect them to.
Can't wait for that at junior level when every club's dickhead up front thinks he's Ciaran MacDonald.
I'd be happy enough to give the 2pt score from distance a go, but don't like the idea of 4 points for a goal.
It will be some advantage for club teams with (thinking of home) county-level long range shooters like Michael Langan, Ciaran Thompson, Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty. They'll be racking up the scores against blanket defenses.
Quote from: full moon on October 10, 2024, 02:03:37 PMFrom a defensive point of view surely work could have been done to define the tackling and one on one tackles, shoulders etc for these rules changes
One of the main reasons teams pack the defense is because players can no longer win the ball one on one without fouls being given and so the only method we get now is swarming of 4 or 5 players on one and a free given. Which really is quite new and nonsensical based on the rules.
Most of the fouls and following on nonsense on a pitch comes from every man and his dog having their own interpretation of the tackle, particularly swarm tackles and striking at the body. If the aim is to speed up/have more free flowing games, have players take other players on etc this is the giant pink elephant in the room.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2024, 12:42:02 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 10, 2024, 12:28:08 PMThis 3 players up top is nonsense.
Let's say the ball is hoofed out of defence , and a forward runs towards the ball , but stops at the 50 yard line like he's reached the edge of a cliff, and can't go any further because that would mean only two players are within the 50
How are officials supposed to police that? And how are players supposed to suppress their natural instincts to go for a ball, then stop going for the ball?
Same way they stop for the sideline, end line etc etc??
Aye but you're only looking after yourself in those situations.
You don't have to look down the sideline and count how many of your players are behind it
With this new rule , if one forward runs over the 50 at the same time another runs into it. Jaysus you'd need super slow motion to determine that. How are officials to see the likes of that in real time?
Quote from: J70 on October 10, 2024, 03:06:52 PMIt will be some advantage for club teams with (thinking of home) county-level long range shooters like Michael Langan, Ciaran Thompson, Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty. They'll be racking up the scores against blanket defenses.
Will this force teams to 'mark' them?
Why did this game need no such rules?
Quote from: lfdown2 on October 10, 2024, 04:50:20 PMQuote from: J70 on October 10, 2024, 03:06:52 PMIt will be some advantage for club teams with (thinking of home) county-level long range shooters like Michael Langan, Ciaran Thompson, Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty. They'll be racking up the scores against blanket defenses.
Will this force teams to 'mark' them?
Why would it require more attention than it does now - those type of shooters already get additional coverage in those areas for one pointers. I don't think it changes much, if anything. The two point arc will make no difference to the pattern of games.
The only rule proposed that addresses blanket defenses is the 3 up & back rule so that scoring areas can only be covered by 11 outfield players instead of 14.
There seems to be a misconception that this will create a 3v3 game at times but there is virtually no chance of that given that teams can keep as many back as you like.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 10, 2024, 08:57:43 PMQuote from: lfdown2 on October 10, 2024, 04:50:20 PMQuote from: J70 on October 10, 2024, 03:06:52 PMIt will be some advantage for club teams with (thinking of home) county-level long range shooters like Michael Langan, Ciaran Thompson, Michael Murphy and Paddy McBrearty. They'll be racking up the scores against blanket defenses.
Will this force teams to 'mark' them?
Why would it require more attention than it does now - those type of shooters already get additional coverage in those areas for one pointers. I don't think it changes much, if anything. The two point arc will make no difference to the pattern of games.
The only rule proposed that addresses blanket defenses is the 3 up & back rule so that scoring areas can only be covered by 11 outfield players instead of 14.
There seems to be a misconception that this will create a 3v3 game at times but there is virtually no chance of that given that teams can keep as many back as you like.
Why would any team risk leaving 3 unmarked (1 or 2 even) men considering 1 or 2 kicks after a turn over, about a few seconds, and they're in on goal?
Not following what you're saying here. There must also be a minimum of three defenders in your own half also - but more likely 4 or 5 when you're attacking.
I like the tap & go rule with frees
What's the point in the 1 v 1 for the throw ups? How's that going to make games be less negative?
It's going to be hard for your average club refs to police a lot of these.
One team on the attack they will have to turn and count the number of people in the other half while keeping an eye on where a shot is being taken from to see if it's a 2 pointer
Quote from: maldini on October 10, 2024, 11:07:21 PMI like the tap & go rule with frees
What's the point in the 1 v 1 for the throw ups? How's that going to make games be less negative?
It's going to be hard for your average club refs to police a lot of these.
One team on the attack they will have to turn and count the number of people in the other half while keeping an eye on where a shot is being taken from to see if it's a 2 pointer
Again I question the understanding these people have of 99% of the actual playing membership.
Completely elitist
It'll be interesting to see whether the 2pt/4pt dynamic creates a situation similar to Basketball, where the worst shots to take are 'long 2s'. The highest % shots will become 2pt'ers and goals, so teams will focus on generating shots in that area. Shooting 21% from 2pt range will be better than shooting 40% from 1pt range.
It undoubtedly will, and teams and coaches would be stupid not to adapt as such. Basketball as you say is primarily now high % efforts in the paint (layups and dunks) and 3s, so we'll likely see minimal attempts from, what, say the 25-40m range?
What you'll see is a lot of set play ball movement to get it to the free, high % 3 point shooter. We may be seeing a lot more hand signals from Armagh players moving up the pitch.
Too many rules already. And we adding a ton more, just more problems for the ref.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2024, 07:53:03 AMToo many rules already. And we adding a ton more, just more problems for the ref.
The ref., especially in club games is the last person they're worried bout unfortunately.
All about the gimmicky displays etc.
Shouldn't Refs be speaking out behind the scenes?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2024, 08:42:26 AMShouldn't Refs be speaking out behind the scenes?
Behind the scenes? was there no current refs part of this team?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2024, 08:42:26 AMShouldn't Refs be speaking out behind the scenes?
Why not publicly? We dont hear enough from them in fairness.
I'd be really quite unwilling to favour rule changes that increase the pressure on referees. For the fundamental reason that the culture in our game towards referees is broken. They are treated as pariahs, not arbitrators.
Tying the value of a score to a person's position on the field, significantly increases the pressure on a referee. They can "steal" or "gift" points to the competitors by being caught out in the wrong position to make a clear judgement, or worse again by glancing around to count the players in each half just before the strike.
So, in short. f**k that for a game of darts.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2024, 09:01:52 AMI'd be really quite unwilling to favour rule changes that increase the pressure on referees. For the fundamental reason that the culture in our game towards referees is broken. They are treated as pariahs, not arbitrators.
Tying the value of a score to a person's position on the field, significantly increases the pressure on a referee. They can "steal" or "gift" points to the competitors by being caught out in the wrong position to make a clear judgement, or worse again by glancing around to count the players in each half just before the strike.
So, in short. f**k that for a game of darts.
Agreed. Refs have it hard enough as it is.
The working group has not even mentioned the tackle in their proposals. Instead what they've produced is mostly a load of completely unworkable nonsense. [tap and go and penalties for dissent aside]. There are a lot of smart football men on that committee but they've completely lost the run of themselves. I'm not completely au fait with what the TOR were for the committee but it would be impossible to work out what they were from the proposals they have come up with.
As I've said in the past, and others have pointed out here, the preponderance of the blanket defence, with its consequent slow buildup, ball retention and sideways passing etc, has resulted from the increase in referees allowing swarm tackling. It pays for teams to tackle in swarms. This is THE issue contributing to the stagnation in our game. Not a single sentence or proposal to address this.
Rubbish, must do better.
Can you imagine a game in injury time and a team 1 point behind and he hits what he thinks is a 2 pointer but ref reckons he was just inside the line or on it and gives 1 point...be some fighting and arguing over this ahead. Impossible to police it and as someone said there when the attack is on the Ref has to turn around and count the players in the other half...
On a side note, what is the new signal that a 2 pointer has been scored? We are all used to checking what the umpire does, but presumably they have no say in whether it was a 2 pointer. Does the ref hold up 1 arm for inside the 40 arc and 2 arms for outside the 40 arc? Or the peace symbol?
(https://media.gettyimages.com/id/594897606/photo/richard-nixon-gives-his-well-known-two-armed-victory-salute-during-a-campaign-stop-in-el-paso.jpg?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=AurJsOq85EFnLYLve3r4oqx2bHezk6zUPukqf0ThJqk=)
Red flag for 2 pointer.
Does the new advanced mark proposal apply to defenders as well?
Defender catches ball, ref blows for Mark....can defender play on and then go back to the mark if he gets bottled up?
Just watching some of these videos re the trial rules. A question for clarification lads??
The rule about the keeper can only get a pass if he joins the attack after crossing the dotted line in the middle of the pitch. Can he be tracked a one any of the three players that you have to keep up in your attacking area?
Or does that give the attacking team an extra man to attack with if the keeper gets beyond that dotted line?
Quote from: shawshank on October 11, 2024, 01:56:37 PMJust watching some of these videos re the trial rules. A question for clarification lads??
The rule about the keeper can only get a pass if he joins the attack after crossing the dotted line in the middle of the pitch. Can he be tracked a one any of the three players that you have to keep up in your attacking area?
Or does that give the attacking team an extra man to attack with if the keeper gets beyond that dotted line?
This is correct,the goalkeeper can create a +1.
The only scenario where the 3v3 can be changed is when there is a red or black card.
Most swarm tackles are 90% fouls, and refs don't give them cause a player nowhere to go, but is been fouled in contact.
What if a player is getting treatment inside the 50? Does he count as one of the three kept up top?
In regards to the new rules James Horan said "I would be cursing whoever got rid of the pre-season competitions this year,"
"That is who I'd be cursing this year. Because we were talking to John Cleary on Monday. So, he can't start training until December 7th. He can't have any challenges. He has no pre-season competition. He'll have all his college guys gone in January, and then in December, after the club season, you'll have a lot of guys that have gone on holidays.
"He is going to get a couple of sessions, I'd say, of all his team playing before the national league. So, that's awful tough on an inter-county manager. If I was an inter county manager, I'd definitely be giving out to someone about something. It is too short. I think the FBD would be perfect for it this year, of all years."
Cork boss John Cleary said that the preseason competitions shouldn't have been abandoned this year: "We are organising challenges games now, we have one or two in the pipeline, I'd have preferred the McGrath Cup. It is a structured competition. There is a bit of media, referee, linesmen and umpires. It is probably not the same in a challenge game."
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 11, 2024, 05:12:24 PMIn regards to the new rules James Horan said "I would be cursing whoever got rid of the pre-season competitions this year,"
"That is who I'd be cursing this year. Because we were talking to John Cleary on Monday. So, he can't start training until December 7th. He can't have any challenges. He has no pre-season competition. He'll have all his college guys gone in January, and then in December, after the club season, you'll have a lot of guys that have gone on holidays.
"He is going to get a couple of sessions, I'd say, of all his team playing before the national league. So, that's awful tough on an inter-county manager. If I was an inter county manager, I'd definitely be giving out to someone about something. It is too short. I think the FBD would be perfect for it this year, of all years."
Cork boss John Cleary said that the preseason competitions shouldn't have been abandoned this year: "We are organising challenges games now, we have one or two in the pipeline, I'd have preferred the McGrath Cup. It is a structured competition. There is a bit of media, referee, linesmen and umpires. It is probably not the same in a challenge game."
Sure they're "pointless" according to some on here.
Quote from: shawshank on October 11, 2024, 01:56:37 PMJust watching some of these videos re the trial rules. A question for clarification lads??
The rule about the keeper can only get a pass if he joins the attack after crossing the dotted line in the middle of the pitch. Can he be tracked a one any of the three players that you have to keep up in your attacking area?
Or does that give the attacking team an extra man to attack with if the keeper gets beyond that dotted line?
Some advantage for a team like tyrone. Morgan will be getting 7 or 8 free shots a match from outside the 40m arc and if he only scores half will still be getting 8 points.
Quote from: lenny on October 11, 2024, 06:07:50 PMQuote from: shawshank on October 11, 2024, 01:56:37 PMJust watching some of these videos re the trial rules. A question for clarification lads??
The rule about the keeper can only get a pass if he joins the attack after crossing the dotted line in the middle of the pitch. Can he be tracked a one any of the three players that you have to keep up in your attacking area?
Or does that give the attacking team an extra man to attack with if the keeper gets beyond that dotted line?
Some advantage for a team like tyrone. Morgan will be getting 7 or 8 free shots a match from outside the 40m arc and if he only scores half will still be getting 8 points.
I'm sure teams will have some sort of plan in place to not let a fella like that any time or space in the shooting zone. (If not I'm more than happy to take big bucks on any coaching set up ;) )
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 11, 2024, 07:07:29 PMQuote from: lenny on October 11, 2024, 06:07:50 PMQuote from: shawshank on October 11, 2024, 01:56:37 PMJust watching some of these videos re the trial rules. A question for clarification lads??
The rule about the keeper can only get a pass if he joins the attack after crossing the dotted line in the middle of the pitch. Can he be tracked a one any of the three players that you have to keep up in your attacking area?
Or does that give the attacking team an extra man to attack with if the keeper gets beyond that dotted line?
Some advantage for a team like tyrone. Morgan will be getting 7 or 8 free shots a match from outside the 40m arc and if he only scores half will still be getting 8 points.
I'm sure teams will have some sort of plan in place to not let a fella like that any time or space in the shooting zone. (If not I'm more than happy to take big bucks on any coaching set up ;) )
They can try but first of all they will only be able to have 11 players back instead of 14 and there'll be more space to cover. Second the keeper will be a free man unless they push someone onto him and leave someone else free. The dilemma for defences will be whether to defend against the 2 pointers leaving them vulnerable to conceding a 4 point goal.
Quote from: lenny on October 11, 2024, 06:07:50 PMQuote from: shawshank on October 11, 2024, 01:56:37 PMJust watching some of these videos re the trial rules. A question for clarification lads??
The rule about the keeper can only get a pass if he joins the attack after crossing the dotted line in the middle of the pitch. Can he be tracked a one any of the three players that you have to keep up in your attacking area?
Or does that give the attacking team an extra man to attack with if the keeper gets beyond that dotted line?
Some advantage for a team like tyrone. Morgan will be getting 7 or 8 free shots a match from outside the 40m arc and if he only scores half will still be getting 8 points.
Are 45s gonna be worth 2 points?
Yes.
Could football end up like Hurling with mostly long range scores?
I think 45s in Ladies football are 2 points... have never seen one scored though. One is enough for the men's game.
I like the new rules. Something drastically needed done.
Quote from: APM on October 12, 2024, 10:41:39 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 08:19:19 AMYes.
45s would be 1pt
Was looking to find where I read that and it was the BBC :
What are the standout changes?
The proposed change that really catches the eye is the one that will reward long-range shooting with shots from outside a newly constituted 40-metre arc - bar converted 45s - which go over the bar being worth two points as opposed to one. In addition, goals would be worth four points.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/10/12/malachy-clerkin-the-frcs-dissent-proposals-will-change-gaelic-football-as-much-as-the-gameplay-ones/
Moving the ball 50 metres up the pitch is something that has been mooted as a possible punishment for any number of the game's ills over the years but it has never been brought into being – or ever really come close. But if the FRC motions get through, it could bring about a complete sea-change in how players and coaches deal with referees.
If Motion 34 gets through, any dissent towards a referee by anybody on the pitch will result in the ball being brought 50 metres up the pitch. If Motion 35 gets through, only the team captain – or, a player nominated by the captain if the captain is a goalkeeper – can ask the referee why a free was given. Anyone else asks for clarification, the ball gets moved up 50 metres.
There's more – and not just for stuff that happens on the pitch itself. If Motion 49 is passed, any manager, coach or non-playing substitute who shouts abuse at a referee/linesman/umpire will see their team punished to the tune of a 13-metre free. Or, if the kicking team prefers, a 40-metre free straight in front of the posts, which will be worth two points.
The 50-metre punishment will come in for other stuff too, mostly around the annoying carry-on after players give away frees or sideline balls. Under the new rules, if you hold on to the ball after a free is given, or if you roll the ball away, or even if you give the ball to the referee you get penalised to the tune of 50 metres. In fact, the proposal says that players who are in possession must "hand the ball to their opponents" after conceding a free, otherwise they'll be hit with a 50-metre tax.
That would be a fantastic rule to bring in. Cut out a lot of the nonsense in one fell swoop.
Draconian stuff. But maybe needed? Bigger issue is fan abuse but not sure what you can do about that.
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2024, 11:54:33 AMThat would be a fantastic rule to bring in. Cut out a lot of the nonsense in one fell swoop.
Yeah, that would cut a lot of the messing about out for sure. Hopefully it's implentmented in full.
It would make the game a lot better.
Quote from: APM on October 12, 2024, 10:41:39 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 08:19:19 AMYes.
45s would be 1pt
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1009/1474480-proposed-football-rules-explained-scoring-system/
2pts for a 45 according to this. Happy to be corrected if you've a different source.
EDIT - have just seen your follow up. Rte and BBC reporting two different things entirely. I'd not be in favour of 45s being worth anything extra at all given it's a free.
Probably a square ball there to win that Derry championship 'game'.
Almost impossible to call it in real time.
Could they not scrap it when they are tinkering with the rule book. It just creates hassle.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 12, 2024, 09:39:59 PMProbably a square ball there to win that Derry championship 'game'.
Almost impossible to call it in real time.
Could they not scrap it when they are tinkering with the rule book. It just creates hassle.
Kick came in from play so was no where near a square ball
The proposals do include a change to make the square ball rule consistent from free kicks. So you can enter once ball kicked. The poor shot dropped short will be much more valuable with a 4 point goal on offer.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 12, 2024, 09:39:59 PMProbably a square ball there to win that Derry championship 'game'.
Almost impossible to call it in real time.
Could they not scrap it when they are tinkering with the rule book. It just creates hassle.
Clearly wasn't a square ball at all. Not even close.
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 09:55:47 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 12, 2024, 09:39:59 PMProbably a square ball there to win that Derry championship 'game'.
Almost impossible to call it in real time.
Could they not scrap it when they are tinkering with the rule book. It just creates hassle.
Clearly wasn't a square ball at all. Not even close.
It wasn't close & Marty Morrissey after all these years still doesent know the square ball rule & the difference from play and a free
Problem is Marty is far from the only one. Many people up and down the country as players, management or, in particular, spectators as evidenced above, don't appear to have the slightest clue.
What's the point of square ball? To me it just creates aggro. Often blink of an eye decision, impossible for officials.
To stop players standing in on top of a keeper
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 10:30:26 PMTo stop players standing in on top of a keeper
The benefit of that is less than the hassle it creates. Just a personal opinion, I'd scrap it in the morning. One less headache for all concerned.
Probably for the best you let it go having demonstrated no knowledge of the rule whatsoever. Have no idea what hassle you're referring to as I can't remember any really high profile incidents of anyone kicking up a fuss over a square ball. Do players on either side yap if the decision goes against them? Of course they do.
I'm certainly not in favour of big donkeys standing two feet off the line having ball after ball pumped in on top of them in the hope they can get a hand to one.
Big donkeys can stand on the edge of the square and move in on top of the goalkeeper as soon as the ball is kicked under the current rule. Is there any real difference if the big donkey is on top of the keeper to begin with?
I agree with Sportacus. It is a damn hard rule for referees to police. They must be guessing most of the time.
Yes, because they can block the keeper completely and prevent them from so much as challenging for the ball if they can't get a few steps at it.
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 10:43:15 PMProbably for the best you let it go having demonstrated no knowledge of the rule whatsoever. Have no idea what hassle you're referring to as I can't remember any really high profile incidents of anyone kicking up a fuss over a square ball. Do players on either side yap if the decision goes against them? Of course they do.
I'm certainly not in favour of big donkeys standing two feet off the line having ball after ball pumped in on top of them in the hope they can get a hand to one.
Happens regularly up and down the country. You only have to go back to last weeks Down semifinal for a case in point.
(And I'm well aware what the rule is thanks for asking, just called it wrong earlier - probably why I said "probably").
They can easily do that under the current rule if they wish. Ball kicked....2 steps and you're on top of him, blocking him or whatever long before the ball is in there.
There was a point to the old rule, along the lines of what you are saying. And it was much easier policed. But not the current one.
Watched first half of tyrone junior final there. Great game, quality maybe a bit lacking but 2 teams going for it. Compared the complete shambles on RTE last night. Just shows the game doesn't need rule changes just teams who want to go for it and managers who want to win more than don't want to lose
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on October 13, 2024, 04:05:45 PMWatched first half of tyrone junior final there. Great game, quality maybe a bit lacking but 2 teams going for it. Compared the complete shambles on RTE last night. Just shows the game doesn't need rule changes just teams who want to go for it and managers who want to win more than don't want to lose
The game needs changes for that very reason.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 13, 2024, 04:07:18 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on October 13, 2024, 04:05:45 PMWatched first half of tyrone junior final there. Great game, quality maybe a bit lacking but 2 teams going for it. Compared the complete shambles on RTE last night. Just shows the game doesn't need rule changes just teams who want to go for it and managers who want to win more than don't want to lose
The game needs changes for that very reason.
Regardless of changes, negative coaches and managers will be negative, what we need is a change in mindset. Granted it's easier to change rules than mindsets lol
https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1845545520938267056 (https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1845545520938267056)
This is exactly why we need 3v3.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 13, 2024, 10:04:08 PMhttps://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1845545520938267056 (https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1845545520938267056)
This is exactly why we need 3v3.
I don't see it helping.
What we really need, or more like need to do, is just boycott games.
Couldn't believe the crowd in Newry today for what was inevitably dreadful football and a foregone conclusion.
If the crowds decrease, do players & managers stop with this shite?
Or what way does it pan out?
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 13, 2024, 10:04:08 PMhttps://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1845545520938267056 (https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1845545520938267056)
This is exactly why we need 3v3.
Why don't teams leave a couple of players up top all the time anyway? Keepers wouldn't come out as far if 2 forwards are on their 21 yard line. They'd have to stay back. And all the defenders wouldn't venture into the opponents half
Work like terriers in defence, win the ball and hoof it up to the 2 forwards. Goal. Problem solved.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 13, 2024, 10:10:15 PMIf the crowds decrease, do players & managers stop with this shite?
Or what way does it pan out?
Yep.
Might take a few years, but yep.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" only rings true when a wider population give validation.
Ballyholland reach the All Ireland final with defensive muck, you're there with your face painted though. Aren't you?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 13, 2024, 10:20:15 PMBallyholland reach the All Ireland final with defensive muck, you're there with your face painted though. Aren't you?
No doubt.
No doubt at all.
But in the past 5 years I've paid into 2 games that didn't involve Ballyholland. This year's AI final. Last year's USFC Down v Donegal.
I would have happily driven the country to watch football in the noughties, but can longer stand being bored out of my scone.
I'm not completely absolved btw, for I'm still prone to paying for streamed matches. But the day of not doing that is getting very close.
We suffer from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Until we start ignoring our kidnappers, it's never going to change.
Just seen footage of some county player with his club Esstymon in Clare playing keepy-uppys in the middle of the field not an opponent near him. They scored 2 points apparently. Such an insult to Gaelic football.
Is a disgrace what coaches have done to our game. I didn't even bother to put on the Derry semi-final on RTÉ last night. Have been told I made the right decision...
and we used slag off soccer!
Quote from: Truthsayer on October 13, 2024, 10:53:32 PMJust seen footage of some county player with his club Esstymon in Clare playing keepy-uppys in the middle of the field not an opponent near him. They scored 2 points apparently. Such an insult to Gaelic football.
Is a disgrace what coaches have done to our game. I didn't even bother to put on the Derry semi-final on RTÉ last night. Have been told I made the right decision...
and we used slag off soccer!
Modern soccer is great to watch, especially in England. Every team plays some version of 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. All very attacking, even at the bottom of the league. It's honestly a better spectacle that anything Gaelic Football is throwing up at the minute.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 13, 2024, 11:22:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on October 13, 2024, 10:53:32 PMJust seen footage of some county player with his club Esstymon in Clare playing keepy-uppys in the middle of the field not an opponent near him. They scored 2 points apparently. Such an insult to Gaelic football.
Is a disgrace what coaches have done to our game. I didn't even bother to put on the Derry semi-final on RTÉ last night. Have been told I made the right decision...
and we used slag off soccer!
Modern soccer is great to watch, especially in England. Every team plays some version of 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. All very attacking, even at the bottom of the league. It's honestly a better spectacle that anything Gaelic Football is throwing up at the minute.
I've always enjoyed soccer but is true often it was slagged off by GAA people. Be hard to slag it off now. I agree with you, most Gaelic football now is negative and mindnunbing.
Quote from: Truthsayer on October 13, 2024, 10:53:32 PMJust seen footage of some county player with his club Esstymon in Clare playing keepy-uppys in the middle of the field not an opponent near him. They scored 2 points apparently. Such an insult to Gaelic football.
Is a disgrace what coaches have done to our game. I didn't even bother to put on the Derry semi-final on RTÉ last night. Have been told I made the right decision...
and we used slag off soccer!
It's Ennistymon.
Quote from: Truthsayer on October 14, 2024, 12:40:49 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on October 13, 2024, 11:22:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on October 13, 2024, 10:53:32 PMJust seen footage of some county player with his club Esstymon in Clare playing keepy-uppys in the middle of the field not an opponent near him. They scored 2 points apparently. Such an insult to Gaelic football.
Is a disgrace what coaches have done to our game. I didn't even bother to put on the Derry semi-final on RTÉ last night. Have been told I made the right decision...
and we used slag off soccer!
Modern soccer is great to watch, especially in England. Every team plays some version of 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. All very attacking, even at the bottom of the league. It's honestly a better spectacle that anything Gaelic Football is throwing up at the minute.
I've always enjoyed soccer but is true often it was slagged off by GAA people. Be hard to slag it off now. I agree with you, most Gaelic football now is negative and mindnunbing.
I have started to watch a bit of local soccer too and even at the 3rd tier in the north the games are more entertaining than most club games.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 13, 2024, 10:07:28 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on October 13, 2024, 10:04:08 PMhttps://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1845545520938267056 (https://x.com/SmallerFishGAA/status/1845545520938267056)
This is exactly why we need 3v3.
I don't see it helping.
What we really need, or more like need to do, is just boycott games.
Couldn't believe the crowd in Newry today for what was inevitably dreadful football and a foregone conclusion.
I think / hope it will help. I was at a few games over the weekend and caught the Sat evening game on rte. Two of the games, the teams setup with 2 men kept up at all times and they were a great watch. You had the inside forwards trying to steal a yard on their defenders (like the good old days) allowing for the early ball in with support players joining in.
In comparison, the 2 senior games, a dozen men including the shooters sprinting to get back along the 45 to create a 15 man defensive line, then crab football it up the pitch.. Awful to watch
Could be a real game changer imo, but we'll see in due course
Is there any need to make a rule the 3 must stay back?
Once 3 have to stay forward won't teams keep 3 or more likely 4 back to mark and watch them?
They could risk firing loads of lads up for an attack but if it's turned over... 😬.
I imagine this rule will be passed anyway but may have to be revisited as controversy may reign..."they had only 2 men in the other half when they scored the winning point"
I hope the arc and the 2 and 4 pointers get binned and also the requirement for kick outs to go beyond the 45.
Could we have a rule that a ball caught from a kickout inside 45 must be played or carried to outside the 45?
Fuel for the need for rule changes... (https://x.com/thegaeliccorner/status/1845564810001281351)
Any details of teams/panels involved in trial matches this coming weekend ?
Quote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 01:33:24 PMQuote from: APM on October 12, 2024, 10:41:39 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 08:19:19 AMYes.
45s would be 1pt
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1009/1474480-proposed-football-rules-explained-scoring-system/
2pts for a 45 according to this. Happy to be corrected if you've a different source.
EDIT - have just seen your follow up. Rte and BBC reporting two different things entirely. I'd not be in favour of 45s being worth anything extra at all given it's a free.
Frees outside the 40m arc and 45s confirmed as worth two points.
Quote from: gallsman on October 18, 2024, 12:31:14 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 01:33:24 PMQuote from: APM on October 12, 2024, 10:41:39 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 12, 2024, 08:19:19 AMYes.
45s would be 1pt
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1009/1474480-proposed-football-rules-explained-scoring-system/
2pts for a 45 according to this. Happy to be corrected if you've a different source.
EDIT - have just seen your follow up. Rte and BBC reporting two different things entirely. I'd not be in favour of 45s being worth anything extra at all given it's a free.
Frees outside the 40m arc and 45s confirmed as worth two points.
There's no way the score one will get through. At most I'd say the 3 in the half which is gonna be a refs nightmare. And the change to the mark. Only good thing bout the change in the mark it'll stop players playing a wee pop pass to someone just inside the 46 and them firing the hand up to then just play a quick free
It will be interesting to see how it goes tonight but i'd agree with some of what Connaire Mackin says here... https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1017/1476012-running-the-rule-players-on-which-change-excites/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1017/1476012-running-the-rule-players-on-which-change-excites/)
The 3v3 thing is player limiting and a nightmare for local refs. I really think it would be much easier to implement a point of no return for attacking teams like in basketball, which would force the attacking team to make use quickly once they cross say the opposition 45.
Quote from: lurganblue on October 18, 2024, 02:51:31 PMIt will be interesting to see how it goes tonight but i'd agree with some of what Connaire Mackin says here... https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1017/1476012-running-the-rule-players-on-which-change-excites/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1017/1476012-running-the-rule-players-on-which-change-excites/)
The 3v3 thing is player limiting and a nightmare for local refs. I really think it would be much easier to implement a point of no return for attacking teams like in basketball, which would force the attacking team to make use quickly once they cross say the opposition 45.
But would the "point of no return" thing be inclined to crowd defenses even more?
Quote from: johnnycool on October 18, 2024, 02:58:03 PMQuote from: lurganblue on October 18, 2024, 02:51:31 PMIt will be interesting to see how it goes tonight but i'd agree with some of what Connaire Mackin says here... https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1017/1476012-running-the-rule-players-on-which-change-excites/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1017/1476012-running-the-rule-players-on-which-change-excites/)
The 3v3 thing is player limiting and a nightmare for local refs. I really think it would be much easier to implement a point of no return for attacking teams like in basketball, which would force the attacking team to make use quickly once they cross say the opposition 45.
But would the "point of no return" thing be inclined to crowd defenses even more?
Exactly. The problem is fundamentally caused by teams packing their defence. This would reward that.
Maybe, but they're already packed and scores can be created. The problem is the constant recycling back outside. Reducing the sides to 13 is an option.
I'm still scratching my head as to how they can come up with a bundle of experimental rules, and not have a backcourt rule amongst them.
Possession football isn't evil.
Possession football with endless opportunity to recycle and start again is worse than evil. It's the devil taking a shit on our sport.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2024, 03:49:28 PMI'm still scratching my head as to how they can come up with a bundle of experimental rules, and not have a backcourt rule amongst them.
Possession football isn't evil.
Possession football with endless opportunity to recycle and start again is worse than evil. It's the devil taking a shit on our sport.
Maintaining possession in football is far too easy IMO, there's needs to be more opportunity for an opponent to dispossess the ball carrier, maybe do away with the bounce altogether or something similar.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2024, 03:49:28 PMI'm still scratching my head as to how they can come up with a bundle of experimental rules, and not have a backcourt rule amongst them.
Possession football isn't evil.
Possession football with endless opportunity to recycle and start again is worse than evil. It's the devil taking a shit on our sport.
totally agree
Quote from: johnnycool on October 18, 2024, 04:08:42 PMQuote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2024, 03:49:28 PMI'm still scratching my head as to how they can come up with a bundle of experimental rules, and not have a backcourt rule amongst them.
Possession football isn't evil.
Possession football with endless opportunity to recycle and start again is worse than evil. It's the devil taking a shit on our sport.
Maintaining possession in football is far too easy IMO, there's needs to be more opportunity for an opponent to dispossess the ball carrier, maybe do away with the bounce altogether or something similar.
100%.
Limit no of solos/hops?
Allow tackle of some sort on ball carrier?
Allow pulling the ball from the carriers' hands?
This will ultimately put to bed the need for changing the rules (hopefully), as its ruining the game more than the game itself
Quote from: johnnycool on October 18, 2024, 04:08:42 PMQuote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2024, 03:49:28 PMI'm still scratching my head as to how they can come up with a bundle of experimental rules, and not have a backcourt rule amongst them.
Possession football isn't evil.
Possession football with endless opportunity to recycle and start again is worse than evil. It's the devil taking a shit on our sport.
Maintaining possession in football is far too easy IMO, there's needs to be more opportunity for an opponent to dispossess the ball carrier, maybe do away with the bounce altogether or something similar.
100% correct; where the motivation for teams to press hard.
The lack of a defined tackle is the issue.
Tackle is defined but strict enforcement by Refs would mean over 100 frees per game....
Refs then let the ball carrier take 9 or 10 steps to get away from the tackler.....
I would have thought a rule where you limit the number of consecutive hand passes to two or three , and not allow kicking backwards would have been easier to police than this 3 in each half and basketball zonal scores
If you've used up your 2/3 hand passes, you have to kick it forward. That encourages more attacking play
Quote from: lurganblue on October 18, 2024, 02:51:31 PMIt will be interesting to see how it goes tonight but i'd agree with some of what Connaire Mackin says here... https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1017/1476012-running-the-rule-players-on-which-change-excites/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/1017/1476012-running-the-rule-players-on-which-change-excites/)
The 3v3 thing is player limiting and a nightmare for local refs. I really think it would be much easier to implement a point of no return for attacking teams like in basketball, which would force the attacking team to make use quickly once they cross say the opposition 45.
If that was brought in the first thing an opposition manager wi do is drop everyone back knowing that a team can't go back over a certain point and will look to turn them over by crowding the space.
I'm really shocked a shot clock isn't an option being trialled.
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 04:50:42 PMI would have thought a rule where you limit the number of consecutive hand passes to two or three , and not allow kicking backwards would have been easier to police than this 3 in each half and basketball zonal scores
If you've used up your 2/3 hand passes, you have to kick it forward. That encourages more attacking play
How many ref's look after basketball? Small court and well lined out, now take yourself to some bog of a pitch after a few days of rain, lines washed away and you're there on your tod
I will watch these games to see how enhanced the football is but whatever the spectacle, it bears no relation to an under 14B match or the sort of situation MR2 may find himself in.
Never sorted out rulewise what an actual tackle is. 5 men slapping at u all at the same time, to me always a foul
Have Leinster not been training?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 18, 2024, 06:06:38 PMNever sorted out rukewise what a actual tackle is. 5 men slapping at u all at the same time, to me always a foul
Slapping a player is a foul, 15 players slapping the ball is ok.
Only physical tackle is shoulder to shoulder. Always has been
So far it's obvious Connacht foitball better than Leinster.
But sure we knew that already.
Good goal by that big rhubarb lad.
Was going to post b4 this started that Connacht & Ulster will win easy, Leinster & Munster never got excited about the Railway Cup.
It's not a great advertisement to date, Leinster to blame for half assing it.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 18, 2024, 06:18:26 PMSo far it's obvious Connacht foitball better than Leinster.
But sure we knew that already.
Good goal by that big rhubarb lad.
And the point at the end was even better!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2024, 05:48:42 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 04:50:42 PMI would have thought a rule where you limit the number of consecutive hand passes to two or three , and not allow kicking backwards would have been easier to police than this 3 in each half and basketball zonal scores
If you've used up your 2/3 hand passes, you have to kick it forward. That encourages more attacking play
How many ref's look after basketball? Small court and well lined out, now take yourself to some bog of a pitch after a few days of rain, lines washed away and you're there on your tod
Whats your point, MR2?
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 06:26:36 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2024, 05:48:42 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 04:50:42 PMI would have thought a rule where you limit the number of consecutive hand passes to two or three , and not allow kicking backwards would have been easier to police than this 3 in each half and basketball zonal scores
If you've used up your 2/3 hand passes, you have to kick it forward. That encourages more attacking play
How many ref's look after basketball? Small court and well lined out, now take yourself to some bog of a pitch after a few days of rain, lines washed away and you're there on your tod
Whats your point, MR2?
It's impossible to managed for 99% of our games. The 1% and armchair viewers who complain might think it's workable and watching this Leinster obviously not liking it either
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2024, 06:32:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 06:26:36 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2024, 05:48:42 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 04:50:42 PMI would have thought a rule where you limit the number of consecutive hand passes to two or three , and not allow kicking backwards would have been easier to police than this 3 in each half and basketball zonal scores
If you've used up your 2/3 hand passes, you have to kick it forward. That encourages more attacking play
How many ref's look after basketball? Small court and well lined out, now take yourself to some bog of a pitch after a few days of rain, lines washed away and you're there on your tod
Whats your point, MR2?
It's impossible to managed for 99% of our games. The 1% and armchair viewers who complain might think it's workable and watching this Leinster obviously not liking it either
Be impossible to referee at club level and the scoring is stupid, as I thought will make hammerings worse
Get rid of arc, 2 pointers and leave the goal at 3.
It's interesting. Fair play to everyone for trying to make a change. I'm all in favour of three up, but I'm still counting twenty players behind the ball. There's plenty of kicking in going on, but in a proper game with intensity I can't see it being anywhere near as free flowing. Don't think I'd ever get used to two point scores. It's an interesting experiment.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 18, 2024, 06:41:37 PMIt's interesting. Fair play to everyone for trying to make a change. I'm all in favour of three up, but I'm still counting twenty players behind the ball. There's plenty of kicking in going on, but in a proper game with intensity I can't see it being anywhere near as free flowing. Don't think I'd ever get used to two point scores. It's an interesting experiment.
Nearly sure there wasn't 3 in the one half for one of AOS's points
Third man to cross the line gets an electric shock should sort it
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 06:44:07 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 18, 2024, 06:41:37 PMIt's interesting. Fair play to everyone for trying to make a change. I'm all in favour of three up, but I'm still counting twenty players behind the ball. There's plenty of kicking in going on, but in a proper game with intensity I can't see it being anywhere near as free flowing. Don't think I'd ever get used to two point scores. It's an interesting experiment.
Nearly sure there wasn't 3 in the one half for one of AOS's points
Third man to cross the line gets an electric shock should sort it
Can you imagine the roaring and shouting at a club game when the ref is looking the other way and somebody puts a toenail over the line.
The 3 up rule is hard to judge from TV you can't tell if teams sticking to it. At least supporters can alternate a new shout with the traditional HOW LONG
What was the issue with that Munster kickout that led to the throw up?
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on October 18, 2024, 08:06:38 PMWhat was the issue with that Munster kickout that led to the throw up?
Ball didn't get past the D before being engaged
Conatys shot looked well over there
1 very 1 at throw in looks OK but 2nd player should be on the pitch at 13m
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on October 18, 2024, 08:13:05 PMConatys shot looked well over there
Don't like that rule. Imagine a junior b keeper trying to kick into a gale
Hard to see much benefit from last night's games. They were played like friendlies. They quarters are of no benefit. Don't see tge point in the 1 v 1 at throw ins. And I'd keep the old scoring.
The 3 players up is a good idea, to referee it the umpires linesmen and ref will need to be mic'd up. Might be good if 3 defenders have to also stay in their own half.
The quarters aren't part of the new rules.
Not sure why they split it in quarters. I thought it might have been to allow loads of subs.
1 v 1 is a positive as we don't have the 2 man wrestle while the other 2 go for the ball.
Get rid of the 2 and 4 point scores please.
And the handpass points.
Quote from: snoopdog on October 19, 2024, 08:29:44 AMHard to see much benefit from last night's games. They were played like friendlies. They quarters are of no benefit. Don't see tge point in the 1 v 1 at throw ins. And I'd keep the old scoring.
The 3 players up is a good idea, to referee it the umpires linesmen and ref will need to be mic'd up. Might be good if 3 defenders have to also stay in their own half.
Quarters were just for last night.
I like 1 V 1 in the throw in. Saves all that pulling and dragging.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on October 18, 2024, 06:33:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2024, 06:32:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 06:26:36 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2024, 05:48:42 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 18, 2024, 04:50:42 PMI would have thought a rule where you limit the number of consecutive hand passes to two or three , and not allow kicking backwards would have been easier to police than this 3 in each half and basketball zonal scores
If you've used up your 2/3 hand passes, you have to kick it forward. That encourages more attacking play
How many ref's look after basketball? Small court and well lined out, now take yourself to some bog of a pitch after a few days of rain, lines washed away and you're there on your tod
Whats your point, MR2?
It's impossible to managed for 99% of our games. The 1% and armchair viewers who complain might think it's workable and watching this Leinster obviously not liking it either
Be impossible to referee at club level and the scoring is stupid, as I thought will make hammerings worse
The ref said before second game would be hard to watch the game in front of him and also look behind at 3 v 3 rule. Imagine a club game with no other help.
We have had 20+ years now of Gaelic Football becoming a more defensive, a more possessive and more tactical game. A few rule changes are not going to change things back over-night. I'm not sure there is an cure.
Although the game is dying as a spectacle. The game still holds dear in the hearts of all Gaels. County titles, Provincial titles, AI titles hold great weight and pride in communities.
People are more and more waiting for the big day to go to games anymore. Early round games are dropping in numbers. This says most are more interested in being there for the occasion rather than the game.
My only answer to the whole thing is make it 13 v 13.
Just ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
National sport ;D
More people play hockey than hurley stuff in 17 or 18 Counties.
13 v 13 is over a 10% reduction in the number of players participating in a match. This is bound to cause a drop off in playing numbers over time damaging clubs particularly at underage. The unintended consequences would be worse than the problem it is intended to solve.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
100% correct.
Hurling is the greatest. No matter what the review committees do, football will never compare to hurling.
It's Liam Mc Carthy V Lory Meagher.
Football is basically basketball.
Quote from: GTP on October 19, 2024, 10:31:17 AM13 v 13 is over a 10% reduction in the number of players participating in a match. This is bound to cause a drop off in playing numbers over time damaging clubs particularly at underage. The unintended consequences would be worse than the problem it is intended to solve.
13 v 13 makes it easier for really weak clubs to put out teams. It also makes it easier for middle of the road size clubs to have a B teams at all age group levels. Subs bench would be utilised more also as players would tire quicker. I don't see how it would damage participation.
It would encourage more kick passing to conserve energy wasted on carrying the ball.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
Hurling for all it's plaudits, is a foreign sport in nearly all of the country.
Our area started a Hurling Club nearly 20 years ago. There is a fairly large uptake in the beginning. but, The drop out is huge. Gaelic football and Soccer always win out.
Promotion of the game is poor and there is no local Heroes. The last local hero Hurler from Mayo was Keith Higgins and that was 100% based on his football exploits.
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2024, 11:23:21 AMQuote from: GTP on October 19, 2024, 10:31:17 AM13 v 13 is over a 10% reduction in the number of players participating in a match. This is bound to cause a drop off in playing numbers over time damaging clubs particularly at underage. The unintended consequences would be worse than the problem it is intended to solve.
13 v 13 makes it easier for really weak clubs to put out teams. It also makes it easier for middle of the road size clubs to have a B teams at all age group levels. Subs bench would be utilised more also as players would tire quicker. I don't see how it would damage participation.
It would encourage more kick passing to conserve energy wasted on carrying the ball.
This correct; amazed it didn't come up for consideration. I remember playing MacRory foot ball back in the early 70s when it was 13-a-side
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2024, 11:39:04 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
Hurling for all it's plaudits, is a foreign sport in nearly all of the country.
Our area started a Hurling Club nearly 20 years ago. There is a fairly large uptake in the beginning. but, The drop out is huge. Gaelic football and Soccer always win out.
Promotion of the game is poor and there is no local Heroes. The last local hero Hurler from Mayo was Keith Higgins and that was 100% based on his football exploits.
But according to most on here football is puke, so get rid, Mayo might as well throw everything In behind hurling as the football hasn't been to kind to them since the curse
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 11:55:26 AMQuote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2024, 11:39:04 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
Hurling for all it's plaudits, is a foreign sport in nearly all of the country.
Our area started a Hurling Club nearly 20 years ago. There is a fairly large uptake in the beginning. but, The drop out is huge. Gaelic football and Soccer always win out.
Promotion of the game is poor and there is no local Heroes. The last local hero Hurler from Mayo was Keith Higgins and that was 100% based on his football exploits.
But according to most on here football is puke, so get rid, Mayo might as well throw everything In behind hurling as the football hasn't been to kind to them since the curse
Antrim being an example throwing everything in behind hurling and being successful......
Quote from: marty34 on October 19, 2024, 11:16:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
100% correct.
Hurling is the greatest. No matter what the review committees do, football will never compare to hurling.
It's Liam Mc Carthy V Lory Meagher.
Football is basically basketball.
In many ways hurling scoring is like basketball. There is a score every time someone goes up the pitch. Hurling fans seem to like that but I find it a bit boring. The new rules seem make football like that too, though hard to tell given it was an exhibition match.
Quote from: marty34 on October 19, 2024, 11:16:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
100% correct.
Hurling is the greatest. No matter what the review committees do, football will never compare to hurling.
It's Liam Mc Carthy V Lory Meagher.
Football is basically basketball.
Basketball is one of the most popular sports in the world. It is alot more popular than Hurling.
Quote from: Mario on October 19, 2024, 01:37:06 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 19, 2024, 11:16:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
100% correct.
Hurling is the greatest. No matter what the review committees do, football will never compare to hurling.
It's Liam Mc Carthy V Lory Meagher.
Football is basically basketball.
In many ways hurling scoring is like basketball. There is a score every time someone goes up the pitch. Hurling fans seem to like that but I find it a bit boring. The new rules seem make football like that too, though hard to tell given it was an exhibition match.
Hurling is like basketball 🤣 That bate all!
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2024, 01:14:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 11:55:26 AMQuote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2024, 11:39:04 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
Hurling for all it's plaudits, is a foreign sport in nearly all of the country.
Our area started a Hurling Club nearly 20 years ago. There is a fairly large uptake in the beginning. but, The drop out is huge. Gaelic football and Soccer always win out.
Promotion of the game is poor and there is no local Heroes. The last local hero Hurler from Mayo was Keith Higgins and that was 100% based on his football exploits.
But according to most on here football is puke, so get rid, Mayo might as well throw everything In behind hurling as the football hasn't been to kind to them since the curse
Antrim being an example throwing everything in behind hurling and being successful......
We are a dual county which reflects yours. A div one team and div 3 team in both codes. But we give resources to both and respect both
Quote from: marty34 on October 19, 2024, 11:16:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
100% correct.
Hurling is the greatest. No matter what the review committees do, football will never compare to hurling.
It's Liam Mc Carthy V Lory Meagher.
Football is basically basketball.
Why can't you pursuade more people to play it at the expense of football then?
There is zero physicality or contact in football anymore and referees don't allow any unlike in Hurling where they can clatter into each other in contests for the sliotar.
When's the last time there was a few good shoulders in a football match? Basically extinct. Years ago I remember it was really prominent for defenders especially.
The new rules last night seemed to just make it easy to score and continue the basketball esque no contact rules. I'm not sure the new scoring helps that either and will likely end games as a contest in 10 minutes.
"Hurley men" think they whole World plays their game ;D
A couple of things worth mentioning.
Under the experimental rules, KOs are required to go 20m - not the 40m people keep referencing.
I still disagree with it for the same reason Niall Morgan outlined. It takes skill and inginuity away completely from restarts. If we want a lottery and minimal reward for skill we'd just play hurling.
The 3v3 rule is maybe the only expereimental rule with real merit if we want to change the flow of the game.
It will not create 3v3 games though - when you get to comeptitive football it will be 5v3 or similar. Who is going to leave Walsh, Comer and Finnerty in a 3v3 game in their own half?
Unfortunately this rule will be unworkable for one official on their own - i.e. most club and schools activity.
Quote from: full moon on October 19, 2024, 03:43:32 PMThere is zero physicality or contact in football anymore and referees don't allow any unlike in Hurling where they can clatter into each other in contests for the sliotar.
When's the last time there was a few good shoulders in a football match? Basically extinct. Years ago I remember it was really prominent for defenders especially.
The new rules last night seemed to just make it easy to score and continue the basketball esque no contact rules. I'm not sure the new scoring helps that either and will likely end games as a contest in 10 minutes.
Depends who's reffing of course. Gough, Colderick and Falloon referee the game really well in this regard. Lane, Hurson , Cawley and quite a few more not so much.
The limited use of shoulder charges is because it is a poor / inefficient way to challenge for the ball. The higher the level and therefore the speed of the game, the more liklihood you will completely sell yourself trying to empty someone with a shoulder. If you drop down the levels of football and most hurling games still have plenty of evidence of shoulder charging - less pace and athleticism in those games.
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 19, 2024, 03:39:36 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 19, 2024, 11:16:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
100% correct.
Hurling is the greatest. No matter what the review committees do, football will never compare to hurling.
It's Liam Mc Carthy V Lory Meagher.
Football is basically basketball.
Why can't you pursuade more people to play it at the expense of football then?
Because it's not promoted by football counties. Plus it's an easier sport to play.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 03:57:27 PMQuote from: DuffleKing on October 19, 2024, 03:39:36 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 19, 2024, 11:16:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
100% correct.
Hurling is the greatest. No matter what the review committees do, football will never compare to hurling.
It's Liam Mc Carthy V Lory Meagher.
Football is basically basketball.
Why can't you pursuade more people to play it at the expense of football then?
Because it's not promoted by football counties. Plus it's an easier sport to play.
And vice versa.
If a player is sent off or black carded will the full strength side be able to have a 13 v 11 situation in attack when goalkeeper gets involved?
Quote from: Sportacus on October 19, 2024, 06:34:20 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 03:57:27 PMQuote from: DuffleKing on October 19, 2024, 03:39:36 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 19, 2024, 11:16:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2024, 09:49:35 AMJust ditch football and put everything into the hurling, it's the national sport, the oldest game and as a spectacle l, the best
100% correct.
Hurling is the greatest. No matter what the review committees do, football will never compare to hurling.
It's Liam Mc Carthy V Lory Meagher.
Football is basically basketball.
Why can't you pursuade more people to play it at the expense of football then?
Because it's not promoted by football counties. Plus it's an easier sport to play.
And vice versa.
There are far less counties, 30 possibly that do promote hurling unequally to football. But yes I get your point
Quote from: full moon on October 19, 2024, 03:43:32 PMThere is zero physicality or contact in football anymore and referees don't allow any unlike in Hurling where they can clatter into each other in contests for the sliotar.
When's the last time there was a few good shoulders in a football match? Basically extinct. Years ago I remember it was really prominent for defenders especially.
The new rules last night seemed to just make it easy to score and continue the basketball esque no contact rules. I'm not sure the new scoring helps that either and will likely end games as a contest in 10 minutes.
Waffle, plenty of contact and physicality in football. Players are stronger than ever before as well
Four points for a goal is wrong.
Two points for a 45 is wrong.
Need the 4-2-1 scoreboard.
I don't buy that players are stronger than ever before. Fitter yes but physically stronger I don't think it.
On the 1 vs 1 throw in, Connacht worked one well but it's a total advantage to the team facing the ball if you get me. Aidan OShea just boxed the ball from the throw up, put his fist straight though it over to his player facing opposite him. Thats a huge advantage vs the team whose other midfielder is behind them
Your never going to be able to generate the power to do that if your midfield partner is behind you if you get me
In the grand scheme of things the throw in has absolutely no bearing on the game
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2024, 08:42:18 AMIn the grand scheme of things the throw in has absolutely no bearing on the game
I wouldn't say that at all. Just off the top of my head, Eoin Murchans goal in the AI final vs Kerry that time had a huge bearing on the game as just one example.
You what they should have got rid of, the pick up. What value does it add to the game?
Quote from: Christmas Lights on October 20, 2024, 08:55:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2024, 08:42:18 AMIn the grand scheme of things the throw in has absolutely no bearing on the game
That's one instance in 100,000 games.
I wouldn't say that at all. Just off the top of my head, Eoin Murchans goal in the AI final vs Kerry that time had a huge bearing on the game as just one example.
You what they should have got rid of, the pick up. What value does it add to the game?
Quote from: Christmas Lights on October 20, 2024, 08:55:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2024, 08:42:18 AMIn the grand scheme of things the throw in has absolutely no bearing on the game
I wouldn't say that at all. Just off the top of my head, Eoin Murchans goal in the AI final vs Kerry that time had a huge bearing on the game as just one example.
You what they should have got rid of, the pick up. What value does it add to the game?
The deciding goal in 2008 All Ireland final also came from the throw-in after Tyrone put sub Kevin Hughes into midfield for the second half.
How many club games at all levels are played every week? and I'm getting two examples!
If people take their heads out of their hole, look at this from 99% of the playing memberships they'll see that these things are really unworkable, and I'm not entirely sure of the benefits
If the throw is so important the winner of the toss has the initial kickoff from the keeper.
One v one in for the throw has no bearing if there was two v two has the winner of the ball will have still set up an opportunity to score from it. Pointless
Only thing I say about the throw in. Is men are deliberately blocking men trying to contest the throw in, not even looking at the ball. Happens every county game.Should be a foul every time but never called
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2024, 09:09:23 AMHow many club games at all levels are played every week? and I'm getting two examples!
If people take their heads out of their hole, look at this from 99% of the playing memberships they'll see that these things are really unworkable, and I'm not entirely sure of the benefits
If the throw is so important the winner of the toss has the initial kickoff from the keeper.
One v one in for the throw has no bearing if there was two v two has the winner of the ball will have still set up an opportunity to score from it. Pointless
I've seen loads of club games where the throw-in has led to a major score or incident. Do you need them all listed?
Quote from: Truthsayer on October 20, 2024, 09:28:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2024, 09:09:23 AMHow many club games at all levels are played every week? and I'm getting two examples!
If people take their heads out of their hole, look at this from 99% of the playing memberships they'll see that these things are really unworkable, and I'm not entirely sure of the benefits
If the throw is so important the winner of the toss has the initial kickoff from the keeper.
One v one in for the throw has no bearing if there was two v two has the winner of the ball will have still set up an opportunity to score from it. Pointless
I've seen loads of club games where the throw-in has led to a major score or incident. Do you need them all listed?
I think the point MR2 is making is it's not something that needed changed it works well as is, just changing for changing sake and giving ref something else to do. What's to stop the midfielder behind referees back making a run towards the middle well before ball is thrown in and the other midfielder just breaking it?
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on October 20, 2024, 09:35:48 AMQuote from: Truthsayer on October 20, 2024, 09:28:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2024, 09:09:23 AMHow many club games at all levels are played every week? and I'm getting two examples!
If people take their heads out of their hole, look at this from 99% of the playing memberships they'll see that these things are really unworkable, and I'm not entirely sure of the benefits
If the throw is so important the winner of the toss has the initial kickoff from the keeper.
One v one in for the throw has no bearing if there was two v two has the winner of the ball will have still set up an opportunity to score from it. Pointless
I've seen loads of club games where the throw-in has led to a major score or incident. Do you need them all listed?
I think the point MR2 is making is it's not something that needed changed it works well as is, just changing for changing sake and giving ref something else to do. What's to stop the midfielder behind referees back making a run towards the middle well before ball is thrown in and the other midfielder just breaking it?
Two of the midfielders often get into a wrestling match. One on one seems an improvement.
Quote from: Truthsayer on October 20, 2024, 09:28:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2024, 09:09:23 AMHow many club games at all levels are played every week? and I'm getting two examples!
If people take their heads out of their hole, look at this from 99% of the playing memberships they'll see that these things are really unworkable, and I'm not entirely sure of the benefits
If the throw is so important the winner of the toss has the initial kickoff from the keeper.
One v one in for the throw has no bearing if there was two v two has the winner of the ball will have still set up an opportunity to score from it. Pointless
I've seen loads of club games where the throw-in has led to a major score or incident. Do you need them all listed?
I'd also expect you've seen loads of club game in which the team winning the throw-in gets turned over and concedes the first score.
And you'll have seen loads of games where the team winning the throw-in gets turned over, but regains possession again, and ends up with the first score.
And so on.
MR2 has called it perfectly. In the grand scheme of things, the throw-in has no bearing on the result.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 20, 2024, 09:41:41 AMQuote from: Truthsayer on October 20, 2024, 09:28:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2024, 09:09:23 AMHow many club games at all levels are played every week? and I'm getting two examples!
If people take their heads out of their hole, look at this from 99% of the playing memberships they'll see that these things are really unworkable, and I'm not entirely sure of the benefits
If the throw is so important the winner of the toss has the initial kickoff from the keeper.
One v one in for the throw has no bearing if there was two v two has the winner of the ball will have still set up an opportunity to score from it. Pointless
I've seen loads of club games where the throw-in has led to a major score or incident. Do you need them all listed?
I'd also expect you've seen loads of club game in which the team winning the throw-in gets turned over and concedes the first score.
And you'll have seen loads of games where the team winning the throw-in gets turned over, but regains possession again, and ends up with the first score.
And so on.
MR2 has called it perfectly. In the grand scheme of things, the throw-in has no bearing on the result.
Does it have to have a bearing on the overall result? It's been very messy, this cleans it up.
Was also 2009 AI final when Tadgh Kennelly busted the Cork midfielder on the throw-in and ref didn't see it... or chose to ignore it. Happens in club games too.
GET RID OF THE PICK UP, PUTING YOUR TOE UNDER THE BALL IN 2024. SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY
I've been involved in thousands of games as a ref, and as a player from juvenile to senior, I've never once walked away from a game and thought, I'd wish we had just one v one for the throw in.
The game's broken in so many ways, this isn't one of them
That's your opinion as a referee but not necessarily shared by many referees. The optics of a four person throw in aren't good , in terms of marketing the game. And the evidence is very clear . The referee has to police 2 simultaneous 1v1 contestants which has become increasingly difficult as the cynical play around the throw in, has increased. There may be merit in the 2 non-competing midfielders being placed on the same sideline facing the referee, at opposite 45s, thus conferring no advantage to either team and referee able to see both non competing midfielders.
Quote from: 6th sam on October 20, 2024, 11:18:36 AMThat's your opinion as a referee but not necessarily shared by many referees. The optics of a four person throw in aren't good , in terms of marketing the game. And the evidence is very clear . The referee has to police 2 simultaneous 1v1 contestants which has become increasingly difficult as the cynical play around the throw in, has increased. There may be merit in the 2 non-competing midfielders being placed on the same sideline facing the referee, at opposite 45s, thus conferring no advantage to either team and referee able to see both non competing midfielders.
So that's your opinion and you along with panel feel that's a positive.
Again you're entitled to that as am I.. as for other refs, I would as you'd expect be speaking to ref's and the one v one thing never came up as an issue.
There are plenty of one v one throw ins during a match, they generally descend to a pulling and hauling match by both players or the other players which refused to retreat back the 13 meters.
I haven't heard one argument how this throw up will improve the game.
I'll go further, I've not seen one post on here from, let's say last year, (before the rules panel set up) any poster bringing up a thought of I'd wish they'd get rid of the four in the middle for the throw in.
Quote from: Christmas Lights on October 20, 2024, 08:09:55 AMOn the 1 vs 1 throw in, Connacht worked one well but it's a total advantage to the team facing the ball if you get me. Aidan OShea just boxed the ball from the throw up, put his fist straight though it over to his player facing opposite him. Thats a huge advantage vs the team whose other midfielder is behind them
Your never going to be able to generate the power to do that if your midfield partner is behind you if you get me
That will work also for the other team in the second half as his player will be facing the mid-field pairing.
So advantage/disadvantage to both teams.
But certainly not the winning/losing of a match.
Jesus is there anything wrong with a bit of wrestling pre throw up? Fire the ball in and let them at it, love to see it
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2024, 12:34:22 PMJesus is there anything wrong with a bit of wrestling pre throw up? Fire the ball in and let them at it, love to see it
If wrestlings ure thing 🤷
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2024, 12:34:22 PMJesus is there anything wrong with a bit of wrestling pre throw up? Fire the ball in and let them at it, love to see it
FFS.
Interesting few matches this weekend. Some thoughts.....
Gaelic football is almost exclusively a club and underage game. Inter County is the elite only. A lot of these new rules are just about the county game and how it might appeal to the media and armchair/fair weather supporters. Many of them will be totally unworkable at club and underage level. I cannot believe the FRC appear to have not taken this into account. Are we to have two different sets of rules for the same sport?
3 up/3 back.
I like that it forces more space into the game. But I cannot see how it can be implemented at club level. Will be absolute carnage for refs,players, supporters and management. Perhaps I will be proven wrong in time....
The kick out.
This is good. Punt it out beyond the 45 and pick out a man if you can. Otherwise an old fashioned battle under a high ball.
The arc.
Firstly the lining out of it is fine for intercounty level. What kind of 40 meter arc are we going to see at club and underage level?
Secondly the 2 point score. I'm not sold on it but willing to give it the year. You won't see a whole pile of them scored at club level anyway. Could you just use the existing 45 and award 2 for scores outside that?
A 2 point free or 45? Nonsense. Get that to fcuk.
Keeper no pass back but beyond the half way line allowed to play.
I'm in favour of no pass back to keeper. Open mind about the plus 1 he creates in the attacking half. The sentiment here is good and will be interesting to see what teams do tactically. Easy enough to ref at club level.
Solo and go.
Fine.
Frees moved up 50 meters.
A lot of bullshit with this one. You have lads blown for something who hold up their hands going "wha?!?" and are penalised 50 meters. That's not dissent or mouthing to the ref. Can you imagine the carnage at club level with this kind of thing. Also for preventing the quick free. Half the time the man who has won the free just picks up the ball and barges straight into the nearest defending player as if he is being obstructed and the ref nearly always falls for it. I'm sure I saw it last night where an innocuous incident out the middle of the field was brought up for a tap over free. Pure bullshit. Again imagine this in any club game league or championship?!
1 v 1 throw in.
No problem with it. Good idea actually but nothing major either way.
4 point goal.
I'm open to it but not sure it's necessary.
I think that's them all. Basically any rule changes have to be easily workable across the whole game from u14 club up to county in my opinion. I'm not saying i would have these but it would have to be the likes of previously raised ideas like
-limit the consecutive handpass to 3 or 4 or whatever
- no pass back to keeper.
- no going back once you cross half way line.
One thing I've been on about for years that I'd like to see done is enforce the steps rule and allow defenders a bit more leeway when putting heat on an opponent. Way too many soft frees given these days in my opinion when what we want to see is contests, physicality etc etc.
Quote from: Ringfort on October 20, 2024, 07:43:58 PMInteresting few matches this weekend. Some thoughts.....
Gaelic football is almost exclusively a club and underage game. Inter County is the elite only. A lot of these new rules are just about the county game and how it might appeal to the media and armchair/fair weather supporters. Many of them will be totally unworkable at club and underage level. I cannot believe the FRC appear to have not taken this into account. Are we to have two different sets of rules for the same sport?
3 up/3 back.
I like that it forces more space into the game. But I cannot see how it can be implemented at club level. Will be absolute carnage for refs,players, supporters and management. Perhaps I will be proven wrong in time....
The kick out.
This is good. Punt it out beyond the 45 and pick out a man if you can. Otherwise an old fashioned battle under a high ball.
The arc.
Firstly the lining out of it is fine for intercounty level. What kind of 40 meter arc are we going to see at club and underage level?
Secondly the 2 point score. I'm not sold on it but willing to give it the year. You won't see a whole pile of them scored at club level anyway. Could you just use the existing 45 and award 2 for scores outside that?
A 2 point free or 45? Nonsense. Get that to fcuk.
Keeper no pass back but beyond the half way line allowed to play.
I'm in favour of no pass back to keeper. Open mind about the plus 1 he creates in the attacking half. The sentiment here is good and will be interesting to see what teams do tactically. Easy enough to ref at club level.
Solo and go.
Fine.
Frees moved up 50 meters.
A lot of bullshit with this one. You have lads blown for something who hold up their hands going "wha?!?" and are penalised 50 meters. That's not dissent or mouthing to the ref. Can you imagine the carnage at club level with this kind of thing. Also for preventing the quick free. Half the time the man who has won the free just picks up the ball and barges straight into the nearest defending player as if he is being obstructed and the ref nearly always falls for it. I'm sure I saw it last night where an innocuous incident out the middle of the field was brought up for a tap over free. Pure bullshit. Again imagine this in any club game league or championship?!
1 v 1 throw in.
No problem with it. Good idea actually but nothing major either way.
4 point goal.
I'm open to it but not sure it's necessary.
I think that's them all. Basically any rule changes have to be easily workable across the whole game from u14 club up to county in my opinion. I'm not saying i would have these but it would have to be the likes of previously raised ideas like
-limit the consecutive handpass to 3 or 4 or whatever
- no pass back to keeper.
- no going back once you cross half way line.
One thing I've been on about for years that I'd like to see done is enforce the steps rule and allow defenders a bit more leeway when putting heat on an opponent. Way too many soft frees given these days in my opinion when what we want to see is contests, physicality etc etc.
Agree on the steps rule - lot of additional freedom for forwards here, steps needs to be enforced to give defenders a chance.
On the keeper joining the attack/coming live in opposition half I think it should be 4 v 3 kept back so if the keeper piles forward another outfield player has to stay back. Not sure that can be an easy or possible job for a ref in a club game though so it may have to default to keeper only coming live in opposition 45 (that one for the brave!)
Quote from: Ringfort on October 20, 2024, 07:43:58 PM3 up/3 back.
I like that it forces more space into the game. But I cannot see how it can be implemented at club level. Will be absolute carnage for refs,players, supporters and management. Perhaps I will be proven wrong in time....
I'd imagine at club level as soon as a team breaks the 3up/3back rule the opposition will be yelling at the ref within milliseconds. I really don't see it being difficult to enforce at all.
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 21, 2024, 09:32:47 AMQuote from: Ringfort on October 20, 2024, 07:43:58 PM3 up/3 back.
I like that it forces more space into the game. But I cannot see how it can be implemented at club level. Will be absolute carnage for refs,players, supporters and management. Perhaps I will be proven wrong in time....
I'd imagine at club level as soon as a team breaks the 3up/3back rule the opposition will be yelling at the ref within milliseconds. I really don't see it being difficult to enforce at all.
Yeah while the other team is yelling back no ref I wasn't over the line I was a yard behind it.
If we must have 2 point scores let it be from shots outside the 45 instead of the silly arc.
On the keeper joining the attack/coming live in opposition half I think it should be 4 v 3 kept back so if the keeper piles forward another outfield player has to stay back. Not sure that can be an easy or possible job for a ref in a club game though so it may have to default to keeper only coming live in opposition 45 (that one for the brave!)
[/quote]
Keep the keepers behind the 45. For every good score Niall Morgan comes up and gets or sets up you'll have 100 keepers standing holding possession doing nothing like they have done over the last couple of years. Might be harsh on some keepers, I was a keeper btw, but in most instances they're adding nothing to the game except giving players a pass when they're stuck and they add to the shite keep ball game we see at club level especially.
I'd be on for trying most of he rules but the 2 points for a free or 45 should go
My advice to any manager/coach/player is to start thinking about how you're going to change your approach to the game now because the overall sense I'm gettting from talking to people over the weekend is very much that these rules are going to be in place for the pre-season competitions (which will be back for a year to try out these rules) With my tinfoil hat on I'm not sure if the powers that be "managed" to finally get rid of them this year so as to have a sop to bring them back to try out the rules or whether this is just a happy accident for the FRC.
The fact that the FRC are calling for one year to trial these rules initially and also allowing tweaks/adjustments to these rules during the year if necessary means that it's going to be very tough to organise any sort of real opposition to these rules. The fact that if these rules aren't accepted it will be 2030 before the rules can be significantly changed means it will be very hard for those arguing for the status quo. The reality is that the powers that be know that the game is in trouble. They have the hard data in terms of attendances/viewing numbers plus the responses to the FRCs initial survey. Those coming out with things are fine/no need for any changes are pretty much automatically putting themselves in the box of being so out of touch with reality as to make their views on everything related to the game unreliable. Also the FRC have said in their report they are willing to give counties control over which of these rules to bring in at underage so as to best facilitate skills development practicality, which will negate a lot of those concerned about how these rules would work at underage for the moment. Anyone trying to organise opposition to these rules getting brought in temporarily for next year is going to be in starting from what look's like an unwinnable uphill battle to me, which is why I'm advising folks to get thinking about how your going to deal with these new rule now.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2024, 10:04:06 AMQuote from: twohands!!! on October 21, 2024, 09:32:47 AMQuote from: Ringfort on October 20, 2024, 07:43:58 PM3 up/3 back.
I like that it forces more space into the game. But I cannot see how it can be implemented at club level. Will be absolute carnage for refs,players, supporters and management. Perhaps I will be proven wrong in time....
I'd imagine at club level as soon as a team breaks the 3up/3back rule the opposition will be yelling at the ref within milliseconds. I really don't see it being difficult to enforce at all.
Yeah while the other team is yelling back no ref I wasn't over the line I was a yard behind it.
The thing is that being a yard or a meter over the line is unlikelly to make much/any difference 99.99999% of the time so most of the time at club level the ref won't call the free unless it's a situation where the player breaking the rule interferes with play. Overall the way the rule is framed means that the overwhelming majority of the time this rule will have its intended affect in terms of opening up space and it will require very little in the way of work/enforcement by the referee.
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 21, 2024, 09:32:47 AMQuote from: Ringfort on October 20, 2024, 07:43:58 PM3 up/3 back.
I like that it forces more space into the game. But I cannot see how it can be implemented at club level. Will be absolute carnage for refs,players, supporters and management. Perhaps I will be proven wrong in time....
I'd imagine at club level as soon as a team breaks the 3up/3back rule the opposition will be yelling at the ref within milliseconds. I really don't see it being difficult to enforce at all.
Refs are conditioned to ignore most calls from the sidelines anyway at this stage
Quote from: Truthsayer on October 20, 2024, 12:35:47 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2024, 12:34:22 PMJesus is there anything wrong with a bit of wrestling pre throw up? Fire the ball in and let them at it, love to see it
If wrestlings ure thing 🤷
Rock, paper, scissors would be the best way to go, save having to watch them big hallions physically competing for the ball.
PS this is sarcasm readers.
1. one year to trial these rules initially and also allowing tweaks/adjustments
2025 will be an ongoing experiment for county teams and supporters. And who decides if a rule isn't working as
planned to make these changes (or will admit they aren't working).
2. the reality is that the powers that be know that the game is in trouble
This is because they keep telling us how terrible football is a marketing ploy which I cannot fathom.
3. they are willing to give counties control over which of these rules to bring in at underage
Making the men's game fundamentally different from the female game doesn't sit well with me. Allowing 32 counties
the chance to decide the rules for underage football doesn't seem a great idea either. The difference in
age grades across counties shows it is unlikely everyone will be of the same opinion as to what does and does not
apply.
Twohands you are probably correct as it does look like there is no stopping the enhancements, but I am not convinced by them or by the evidence of the matches played over the weekend.
Above all with the new scoring I will be looking forward to attending matches with no scoreboard and no umpires then going home to find the result on teletext the internet.
The 3v3 rule needs to be implemented no matter what.
as for club games there's plenty of supporters and along both dugouts to help the referee keep check on it.
Also, refereeing the existing rules on steps really should be a given, especially in the tackle.
If the tackle is a fine tackle then blow for overcarrying, if the tackle is a foul then blow for the foul.
It won't take long for the coaches and stats men (and women) to adapt once that is refereed correctly (and in hurling)
The goal keeper not able to take a pass in his own half (other than inside the large rectangle), but can in the oppositions half is a bit meh for me, not sure what that brings TBH.
The 50 metre rule for not moving away from the foul and not "presenting the ball" is harsh but once again teams will adapt and may speed the game up.
Didn't see much of the tap and go to pass judgement on that.
The talk of football being poor has been on the go for quite some time but has really ramped up the last 3 or 4 years in particular. For what it's worth, I didn't see it that way, I'm all for teams innovating, playing the game how they see fit, I enjoyed the tactical intricacies of it all compared to 70s and 80s hoofball.
Personally, I would have left the game alone and would have expected it to evolve again naturally over time.
But I appreciate that this talk of football being poor will continue unless the game changes. And so I approach what the FRC are doing with an open mind.
The 2 Friday games in Croke Park were just ok, but I must admit I enjoyed the Saturday games, particularly the final. What I'm intrigued about is how the coaches in our game innovate and try to find ways to take advantage. These rules allow for a lot of flexibility in playing styles...not just the one playing style that almost every team has adopted in recent years of funnelling everyone back.
Teams will have to decide if they employ a stand-in goalkeeper and play it safe or take the risk of crossing over the half way line to create a +1. I like that there are options.
All rules are easy enough to police at club level with the exception of the 3v3.
The way I see the 3v3 working is it will eventually become self policed. To begin with, the referee will only be able to call it if and when he spots it and teams will decide whether they take the chance with it or not. If they get caught deliberately doing it, the punishment has already been set as a 20m free kick in front of goals, which on occasion could move play from one end of the pitch to the other. It is a severe punishment and a big risk to take and is designed specifically to dissuade deliberate breaking of the 3v3 structure. If a team gets stung with it a few times they will then police this rule themselves until eventually it becomes in-built.
I watch a lot of Australian football...the 50m penalty is taken from it. It is a rare enough occurrence to see it happen in the AFL because the players just instinctively give the ball back to the opponent or get out of the way. Again it will require a cultural change and we'll see a lot of it in our game until eventually the mindset changes. Referees need to allow a little bit of leeway on this one for a while.
I see a concern there somewhere that you can't have different sets of rules for gaelic football depending on whether it's county, club or underage etc.
The reality is that you absolutely can, the core rules and playing of the game remain the same but there can be small differences in rulesets for example the lifting of the ball off the ground in ladies football, or in go games sometimes the scoring can be points only, or 2 points for over the bar and 1 for under the bar.
Even in American football, there a some rule differences between College Football versus the NFL.
This is not an unheard of concept.
In summary I'm happy to give these rules a chance for the 2025 season and I hope all of them get passed in special congress. I have surprised myself in thinking this way.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 21, 2024, 11:24:55 AMThe 3v3 rule needs to be implemented no matter what.
as for club games there's plenty of supporters and along both dugouts to help the referee keep check on it.
Also, refereeing the existing rules on steps really should be a given, especially in the tackle.
If the tackle is a fine tackle then blow for overcarrying, if the tackle is a foul then blow for the foul.
It won't take long for the coaches and stats men (and women) to adapt once that is refereed correctly (and in hurling)
The goal keeper not able to take a pass in his own half (other than inside the large rectangle), but can in the oppositions half is a bit meh for me, not sure what that brings TBH.
The 50 metre rule for not moving away from the foul and not "presenting the ball" is harsh but once again teams will adapt and may speed the game up.
Didn't see much of the tap and go to pass judgement on that.
I think the bold one is absolutely key to the changes.
If not you will have 4 playing keep ball versus 3 in their own half
Quote from: Taylor on October 21, 2024, 01:46:57 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 21, 2024, 11:24:55 AMThe 3v3 rule needs to be implemented no matter what.
as for club games there's plenty of supporters and along both dugouts to help the referee keep check on it.
Also, refereeing the existing rules on steps really should be a given, especially in the tackle.
If the tackle is a fine tackle then blow for overcarrying, if the tackle is a foul then blow for the foul.
It won't take long for the coaches and stats men (and women) to adapt once that is refereed correctly (and in hurling)
The goal keeper not able to take a pass in his own half (other than inside the large rectangle), but can in the oppositions half is a bit meh for me, not sure what that brings TBH.
The 50 metre rule for not moving away from the foul and not "presenting the ball" is harsh but once again teams will adapt and may speed the game up.
Didn't see much of the tap and go to pass judgement on that.
I think the bold one is absolutely key to the changes.
If not you will have 4 playing keep ball versus 3 in their own half
The keeper not allowed to take a pass inside their own half, but why allow them to take a pass inside the opposition half? That's the bit I'm meh about.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 21, 2024, 02:29:45 PMThe keeper not allowed to take a pass inside their own half, but why allow them to take a pass inside the opposition half? That's the bit I'm meh about.
In the explanatory videos, allowing the goalkeeper to join in beyond the half way line is to not entirely do away with modern innovations.
But beyond that, think of what it might mean for the game in general or specific patterns of play.
- Does a team opt for a stand-in goalkeeper or a roaming goalkeeper? Various elements of risk, reward, safety etc involved here.
- If a goalkeeper roams, then how how the defensive team go about countering him as a extra player, do they then use their own goalkeeper to even the numbers
- If a turnover happens and the goalkeeper is across the halfway line, the 3v3 structure means he could get caught out very easy. Again teams will have to weigh this up.
Are all these variables and risk/reward scenarios not what we're after??
I like your posts Spiderlegs and can understand you are trying to be positive which is fair enough.
In those scenarios though there is no way a team is going to push out their keeper to mark a man and leave the goal empty while a team is in their half. Especially with a goal worth 4. It will be a zonal defence much like before.
And with a keeper up the field the attacking team is going to be very cautious on the ball so they don't get turned over. And who wants to see lots of goals into an empty net? When those have happened before the keepers have been vilified.
So in the interest of fairness I think the best new rule is that a keeper can't get ball in his own half, but would extend that to the whole pitch.
Would take away these scenarios and lead to a faster more intense 1 v 1 game.
From the Irish Examiner. Stephen O'Meara who has worked with a variety of clubs and counties across the country as an analyst, coach and manager. He currently hosts a Gaelic football analysis podcast, The Square D
Quote16 years ago, Stephen O'Meara brought several motions to his club in a bid to improve Gaelic football. The game was working itself into a dilemma and he believed he had the solution.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Among his suggestions was iterations of rules that would later be introduced and rules that were trialled in Croke Park last weekend as part of the interprovincial series. Way back when, he pushed for a tap and go as well as a penalty for the denial of a goal scoring opportunity.
O'Meara has worked with a variety of clubs and counties across the country as an analyst, coach and manager. He currently hosts a Gaelic football analysis podcast, The Square D. He freely admits the sport has a problem. He freely admits he has been part of the problem.
"It is the use of the goalkeeper, which I as a coach have taken to the nth degree, just keeping the ball off superior opposition," he explains. "Not making it a game of who is faster and who is better.
"You're trying to minimise that gap in raw ability and athleticism by holding the ball indefinitely and gaining ground slowly and using numbers. Absolutely for me, something has to change. The game has become drab to play. It has become exceptionally drab to look at. Even though I've had a reasonable level of success as a coach and a manager, as a purveyor of the keeper playing out of the back, ultimately it is at the root of a game that has now become boring."
How do you fix that? Well, the Jim Gavin-chaired Football Review Committee (FRC) have met 36 times and considered thousands of different survey responses in a search for the answer. One of their seven core enhancements, the solo and go, is a move towards solving one of O'Meara's major issues, cynical fouling to stop quick transitions and counter-attacks. He pursued an even more radical option, a modified version of basketball's personal foul and free throw rule.
But the big idea is the two-point arc. Combine that with the three/three structure rule and the ban on goalkeepers receiving a pass inside their own half and the FRC believe it will lead to a more exciting game to play and watch.
"This is the major issue," stresses O'Meara. "The big one that will cause all the problems is the two-pointer and the goalkeeper rule. I'm all for banning the back pass to the goalkeeper. Necessary evil, greater good all of that.
"Let me give you some data on this. Give or take a few percent, but on average over the last two years in two-thirds of national league games and all significant championship games, the average uncontested shot from outside 40 metres and inside the 45 is 58% (conversion). This is the key coaching element.
"A moderate pressure shot is 43%. High pressure is 35%. So I'm a coach and I know I can bring my goalkeeper up to make it 12v11 and hold the ball definitely, as Niall Morgan illustrated. That is one element where we did get a reasonable view of how the future would look. The difference is lads didn't cross the ball over 19 times to get their free shot, which they will once it is competitive football. If I am a coach and I realise 58% of uncontested shots from there are going over the bar, I am telling teams 'Hold, hold, hold until you get your two-point shot under no pressure.'
"You transfer possession football from one half into the other half and there is less the opposition can do about it because it is so close to their goal.
"That creates a situation where no one wants one-pointers. I'd estimate an 85-90% chance at a one-pointer is just about value. Otherwise, we won't go for it. Now we will have a situation where I am coaching teams, if we have the ball 30 metres out, don't take the point shot. Come back out. If I am coaching the other team, I am saying there is no value from here, so try corral them back in."
This is the precise thing that was lacking in Croke Park. They were, in a variety of ways, exhibitions. Nobody was out to bend or break a rule. What happens when there are real consequences? Cynicism. Creativity that manifests as negativity. Carnage.
"The three-up, it wasn't spotted at one point when Niall Toner was offside. Can you imagine the carnage on a sideline at a club game when that happens. If a team get caught once and the other gets away with it. Also, teams will eventually strategize it. One will swap out one side while someone swaps in the other side, knowing the defender can't come out.
"If you went with my rule of no back pass to the goalkeeper, so much of this would happen organically. You would have to keep height or it would be too clogged when you have the ball. This version is unpoliceable and unnecessary."
There are 12 qualified and informed members of the FRC who have considered extensive data and a games intelligence report provided by Rob Carroll. Over the course of sandbox matches, they have tracked key measures like goals per game, points, shots, ball-in-play time, contested kickouts and compared them to the 2024 championship average.
O'Meara has long maintained that such a committee shouldn't just be provided with data. An analyst should also form part of the group. Representing the tribe, says you. Sure, but that is the point. They will have a say in the shape and style of Gaelic football regardless. Understand how they think.
Take Connacht. In the final last Saturday they scored 4-15, including three two-pointers. They had 32 kick passes in the entire game. Here is how one boffin would break it down.
"A data analyst like me would show teams, when you kicked the ball, this is what happened. When you went through the hands, this happened. So, Connacht scored 1-2 from eight aggressive kick passes. Moderate forward kick passes, zero from four. So 1-2 from 12 kicks. Through the hands, it was 3-10 from 25, which is 3-13 with the two-pointers. So, the evidence thus far, taken with a large pinch of salt that it was a trial on Saturday, on average there was overwhelming better value on keep the ball through the hands than kicking it."
What about the simple logic that even if it isn't perfect, it surely can't make the game worse?
"It's going to be a radical deterioration of the game. I don't think you can even call it that, it is not going to be the game. It's going to be a new game. A newly created game that I think betrays the natural evolution that has happened since 1884, which does include rule changes.
"There have been well-thought-out, moderate rule changes. Can you imagine in 1990 when they banned the back pass to the goalkeeper in soccer, that they also brought in a rule where it was two goals for a header from a cross, two goals for a long shot, you can only get eight back and leave three up? It just wouldn't have washed. A big issue here is that rule change can only happen every five years. There is going to be a huge opportunity lost. I'd vote no to everything except the solo and go. That only solves 30% of the problems in the game."
Which brings him back to the core point. Something has to change. It doesn't have to be like this.
"Deal with the back pass. Progressive coaches with good teams will immediately press high. You don't need the kickout rule then. The value of going short to the D is completely different. It will become man-on-man. There will be an end-to-end dynamic. The butterfly effect of that creates the 70% that is feasibly realistic. 30% of the aim here feels like utopia naivety.
"I am wholly supportive of what I assume is the idea behind these rules. I am quite certain they are going the completely wrong way about it."
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 25, 2024, 05:04:38 PMFrom the Irish Examiner. Stephen O'Meara who has worked with a variety of clubs and counties across the country as an analyst, coach and manager. He currently hosts a Gaelic football analysis podcast, The Square D
Quote16 years ago, Stephen O'Meara brought several motions to his club in a bid to improve Gaelic football. The game was working itself into a dilemma and he believed he had the solution.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Among his suggestions was iterations of rules that would later be introduced and rules that were trialled in Croke Park last weekend as part of the interprovincial series. Way back when, he pushed for a tap and go as well as a penalty for the denial of a goal scoring opportunity.
O'Meara has worked with a variety of clubs and counties across the country as an analyst, coach and manager. He currently hosts a Gaelic football analysis podcast, The Square D. He freely admits the sport has a problem. He freely admits he has been part of the problem.
"It is the use of the goalkeeper, which I as a coach have taken to the nth degree, just keeping the ball off superior opposition," he explains. "Not making it a game of who is faster and who is better.
"You're trying to minimise that gap in raw ability and athleticism by holding the ball indefinitely and gaining ground slowly and using numbers. Absolutely for me, something has to change. The game has become drab to play. It has become exceptionally drab to look at. Even though I've had a reasonable level of success as a coach and a manager, as a purveyor of the keeper playing out of the back, ultimately it is at the root of a game that has now become boring."
How do you fix that? Well, the Jim Gavin-chaired Football Review Committee (FRC) have met 36 times and considered thousands of different survey responses in a search for the answer. One of their seven core enhancements, the solo and go, is a move towards solving one of O'Meara's major issues, cynical fouling to stop quick transitions and counter-attacks. He pursued an even more radical option, a modified version of basketball's personal foul and free throw rule.
But the big idea is the two-point arc. Combine that with the three/three structure rule and the ban on goalkeepers receiving a pass inside their own half and the FRC believe it will lead to a more exciting game to play and watch.
"This is the major issue," stresses O'Meara. "The big one that will cause all the problems is the two-pointer and the goalkeeper rule. I'm all for banning the back pass to the goalkeeper. Necessary evil, greater good all of that.
"Let me give you some data on this. Give or take a few percent, but on average over the last two years in two-thirds of national league games and all significant championship games, the average uncontested shot from outside 40 metres and inside the 45 is 58% (conversion). This is the key coaching element.
"A moderate pressure shot is 43%. High pressure is 35%. So I'm a coach and I know I can bring my goalkeeper up to make it 12v11 and hold the ball definitely, as Niall Morgan illustrated. That is one element where we did get a reasonable view of how the future would look. The difference is lads didn't cross the ball over 19 times to get their free shot, which they will once it is competitive football. If I am a coach and I realise 58% of uncontested shots from there are going over the bar, I am telling teams 'Hold, hold, hold until you get your two-point shot under no pressure.'
"You transfer possession football from one half into the other half and there is less the opposition can do about it because it is so close to their goal.
"That creates a situation where no one wants one-pointers. I'd estimate an 85-90% chance at a one-pointer is just about value. Otherwise, we won't go for it. Now we will have a situation where I am coaching teams, if we have the ball 30 metres out, don't take the point shot. Come back out. If I am coaching the other team, I am saying there is no value from here, so try corral them back in."
This is the precise thing that was lacking in Croke Park. They were, in a variety of ways, exhibitions. Nobody was out to bend or break a rule. What happens when there are real consequences? Cynicism. Creativity that manifests as negativity. Carnage.
"The three-up, it wasn't spotted at one point when Niall Toner was offside. Can you imagine the carnage on a sideline at a club game when that happens. If a team get caught once and the other gets away with it. Also, teams will eventually strategize it. One will swap out one side while someone swaps in the other side, knowing the defender can't come out.
"If you went with my rule of no back pass to the goalkeeper, so much of this would happen organically. You would have to keep height or it would be too clogged when you have the ball. This version is unpoliceable and unnecessary."
There are 12 qualified and informed members of the FRC who have considered extensive data and a games intelligence report provided by Rob Carroll. Over the course of sandbox matches, they have tracked key measures like goals per game, points, shots, ball-in-play time, contested kickouts and compared them to the 2024 championship average.
O'Meara has long maintained that such a committee shouldn't just be provided with data. An analyst should also form part of the group. Representing the tribe, says you. Sure, but that is the point. They will have a say in the shape and style of Gaelic football regardless. Understand how they think.
Take Connacht. In the final last Saturday they scored 4-15, including three two-pointers. They had 32 kick passes in the entire game. Here is how one boffin would break it down.
"A data analyst like me would show teams, when you kicked the ball, this is what happened. When you went through the hands, this happened. So, Connacht scored 1-2 from eight aggressive kick passes. Moderate forward kick passes, zero from four. So 1-2 from 12 kicks. Through the hands, it was 3-10 from 25, which is 3-13 with the two-pointers. So, the evidence thus far, taken with a large pinch of salt that it was a trial on Saturday, on average there was overwhelming better value on keep the ball through the hands than kicking it."
What about the simple logic that even if it isn't perfect, it surely can't make the game worse?
"It's going to be a radical deterioration of the game. I don't think you can even call it that, it is not going to be the game. It's going to be a new game. A newly created game that I think betrays the natural evolution that has happened since 1884, which does include rule changes.
"There have been well-thought-out, moderate rule changes. Can you imagine in 1990 when they banned the back pass to the goalkeeper in soccer, that they also brought in a rule where it was two goals for a header from a cross, two goals for a long shot, you can only get eight back and leave three up? It just wouldn't have washed. A big issue here is that rule change can only happen every five years. There is going to be a huge opportunity lost. I'd vote no to everything except the solo and go. That only solves 30% of the problems in the game."
Which brings him back to the core point. Something has to change. It doesn't have to be like this.
"Deal with the back pass. Progressive coaches with good teams will immediately press high. You don't need the kickout rule then. The value of going short to the D is completely different. It will become man-on-man. There will be an end-to-end dynamic. The butterfly effect of that creates the 70% that is feasibly realistic. 30% of the aim here feels like utopia naivety.
"I am wholly supportive of what I assume is the idea behind these rules. I am quite certain they are going the completely wrong way about it."
Yip, he has completely nailed it
If these new rules are given the go ahead, when do they come in to club football? Will it just be from the start of 2025?
Could be amendments to the new rules and maybe other rules coming in!
I'd a mentor tell me yesterday that someone was inside the D.. I couldn't see the D the D was washed out
Good luck when it comes in
I wonder will they think about taking the wee D out now?
Isn't it just there to keep players away from penalty taker?
Maybe just a mark on either side where it currently meets the line and players must stay on either side of it.
Are there other motions besides the FRC ones re new rules or anything else going to the Special Congress?
Quote from: marty34 on October 28, 2024, 12:47:08 PMI wonder will they think about taking the wee D out now?
Isn't it just there to keep players away from penalty taker?
Maybe just a mark on either side where it currently meets the line and players must stay on either side of it.
They need it for hurling?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 28, 2024, 06:22:51 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 28, 2024, 12:47:08 PMI wonder will they think about taking the wee D out now?
Isn't it just there to keep players away from penalty taker?
Maybe just a mark on either side where it currently meets the line and players must stay on either side of it.
They need it for hurling?
The D helps for penalty's in hurling, but a player in hurling can stand on the 21 for puck out because the distance is same for when the kick out is taken when player outside the D in football.
Love going to hurling fields without the 45 line drawn out ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2024, 06:31:03 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on October 28, 2024, 06:22:51 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 28, 2024, 12:47:08 PMI wonder will they think about taking the wee D out now?
Isn't it just there to keep players away from penalty taker?
Maybe just a mark on either side where it currently meets the line and players must stay on either side of it.
They need it for hurling?
The D helps for penalty's in hurling, but a player in hurling can stand on the 21 for puck out because the distance is same for when the kick out is taken when player outside the D in football.
Love going to hurling fields without the 45 line drawn out ;D
They obviously don't play camogie there either then.
Two D's would be stupid, just remove the smaller one and that'll keep everyone miles away when a penalty is being taken.
Just seen a bit of the James McCarthy interview on otb, suggests refs allowing the game go more, more physical contact and battles for the ball.
100% agree. Would really lift things.
What date are the rules down for decision?
Quote from: statto on November 21, 2024, 11:31:06 AMWhat date are the rules down for decision?
Goes to special congress at the end of this month (November) 30th I think.
Are they going to address the 1 man slapping at a player in possession (free to player in possession) v three men dry riding the man in possession (man in possession being done for over carrying) conundrum?
And while they're at it, the old bear hug / choke tackle should be a yellow....bar mercenary managers, nothing stops the flow of play like it
Slapping a player is always a free, slapping at the ball not a free, a player being surrounded by three player's restricting him from playing the ball legally, will be over carrying if over the time it takes to take 4 steps.
If those players foul the player with the ball, it's a free.
Or simply forget football and watch hurling, easier sport to ref ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2024, 05:50:52 PMSlapping a player is always a free, slapping at the ball not a free, a player being surrounded by three player's restricting him from playing the ball legally, will be over carrying if over the time it takes to take 4 steps.
If those players foul the player with the ball, it's a free.
Or simply forget football and watch hurling, easier sport to ref ;)
It's never, by the rules legal, 3 or 4 burly men slapping at one man in possession... 99/100 it's over carrying. Don't think tackling was mentioned in the new rules, maybe it was
Slapping a player is always a foul
I'd say a lot of bucks (including many players and managers) are not well versed in the playing rules of football🙄
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2024, 06:18:28 PMSlapping a player is always a foul
Yes, indeed... However, multiple players slapping at a man isn't (contrary to what it states in the rulebook)
Quote from: JoG2 on November 21, 2024, 07:22:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2024, 06:18:28 PMSlapping a player is always a foul
Yes, indeed... However, multiple players slapping at a man isn't (contrary to what it states in the rulebook)
But it is.. and if the ref is not blowing frees for that, that's on him. But you could have 15 players legally around one player attempting to tackle the ball and it not a foul.
Only needs to be a misplaced slap or tug of the arm and it's a free.
Problem for some is, some players are waiting to be 'fouled' but then they over carry the ball.
It's also up to the player with the ball to play it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2024, 07:29:39 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 21, 2024, 07:22:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2024, 06:18:28 PMSlapping a player is always a foul
Yes, indeed... However, multiple players slapping at a man isn't (contrary to what it states in the rulebook)
But it is.. and if the ref is not blowing frees for that, that's on him. But you could have 15 players legally around one player attempting to tackle the ball and it not a foul.
Only needs to be a misplaced slap or tug of the arm and it's a free.
Problem for some is, some players are waiting to be 'fouled' but then they over carry the ball.
It's also up to the player with the ball to play it
Every ref except yourself it seems 8)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2024, 06:18:28 PMSlapping a player is always a foul
Not round south Armagh :P
Quote from: lurganblue on November 22, 2024, 11:46:40 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2024, 06:18:28 PMSlapping a player is always a foul
Not round south Armagh :P
No doubt I've probably 'missed' someone who got a slap, usually the ones that do a bit of mouthing ;)
Quote from: JoG2 on November 21, 2024, 07:22:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2024, 06:18:28 PMSlapping a player is always a foul
Yes, indeed... However, multiple players slapping at a man isn't (contrary to what it states in the rulebook)
Slapping at a man or slapping at the ball? Are they different? Incidental contact whilst attempting to play the ball is allowed, so I would suggest that if the slap is either near the ball or not forceful, then why would it be a free? How else do you attempt to play the ball in such a scenario other than to "slap?" Are we suggesting that the only opportunity to tackle is when the player is playing the ball? It might make it an easier game to referee, but that dilution of physicality is surely not something most want to see (and the increase in frees.) The side to side shoulder is obviously a legitimate tackle also, but an increasingly difficult one to perform so quite rare nowadays.
I do agree with the 1 man tackling v 3/4 men tackling connundrum you refer too. However I believe the issue isn't that a free is awarded to the defending team for overcarrying regularly in the group scenario, it is that the same overcarrying is often not applied in the 1 v 1 scenario. Thus the slapping/tackle generally becomes more desperate and leads to the foul (ball carrier usually given the advantage of steps leading into tackle and away from tackle a major contributor to this.) This foul is generally not created in the group scenario because the ball carrier doesn't manage to evade or get away from the group tackle and thus the subsequent desperate tackle does not occur. They are simply bottled up with nowhere to go.
There is only one physical tackle allowed in football, its been that way for ever. The shoulder on shoulder tackle. That's it. No other physical tackle on the player is permitted
Allow more physical contact. Should be allowed to hit a man with your chest when he's in possession to slow him up.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 22, 2024, 03:55:34 PMThere is only one physical tackle allowed in football, its been that way for ever. The shoulder on shoulder tackle. That's it. No other physical tackle on the player is permitted
Yes, but that doesn't mean all other physical contact is outlawed or a foul. "Incidental contact" is the caveat to cater for that and whilst it is subjective, it is necessary so that we don't dilute the game to non contact.
Quote from: Lucifer on November 22, 2024, 09:07:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 22, 2024, 03:55:34 PMThere is only one physical tackle allowed in football, its been that way for ever. The shoulder on shoulder tackle. That's it. No other physical tackle on the player is permitted
Yes, but that doesn't mean all other physical contact is outlawed or a foul. "Incidental contact" is the caveat to cater for that and whilst it is subjective, it is necessary so that we don't dilute the game to non contact.
And yet club games galore see's either open or close handed strikes at the body - usually from behind, under the guise of a tackle and ref's permitting it.
Quote from: BigGreenField on November 22, 2024, 09:38:53 PMQuote from: Lucifer on November 22, 2024, 09:07:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 22, 2024, 03:55:34 PMThere is only one physical tackle allowed in football, its been that way for ever. The shoulder on shoulder tackle. That's it. No other physical tackle on the player is permitted
Yes, but that doesn't mean all other physical contact is outlawed or a foul. "Incidental contact" is the caveat to cater for that and whilst it is subjective, it is necessary so that we don't dilute the game to non contact.
And yet club games galore see's either open or close handed strikes at the body - usually from behind, under the guise of a tackle and ref's permitting it.
It's always the ref's view interpretation and application, only one whistle once chance one view.
Ref can only calls what he sees.
I watched plenty games this year at club, the amount of calls by clubmen managers and supporters for frees which weren't frees was alarming
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 22, 2024, 09:58:07 PMQuote from: BigGreenField on November 22, 2024, 09:38:53 PMQuote from: Lucifer on November 22, 2024, 09:07:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 22, 2024, 03:55:34 PMThere is only one physical tackle allowed in football, its been that way for ever. The shoulder on shoulder tackle. That's it. No other physical tackle on the player is permitted
Yes, but that doesn't mean all other physical contact is outlawed or a foul. "Incidental contact" is the caveat to cater for that and whilst it is subjective, it is necessary so that we don't dilute the game to non contact.
And yet club games galore see's either open or close handed strikes at the body - usually from behind, under the guise of a tackle and ref's permitting it.
It's always the ref's view interpretation and application, only one whistle once chance one view.
Ref can only calls what he sees.
I watched plenty games this year at club, the amount of calls by clubmen managers and supporters for frees which weren't frees was alarming
Nowt worse than gonches trying to backseat ref a game from the sideline (or stands or even players on the pitch) most often when their own team has made a mistake and they are looking bailed out.
the clanging cymbals/beat the drum style of tackle from behind which mostly targets the ball carriers kidneys is rife though and zero skill involved.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/12/10/sean-moran-revenues-laissez-faire-attitude-to-county-finances-appears-to-be-over/
The precipitous drop in attendances, primarily but not exclusively in Leinster, and the difficulty even All-Ireland semi-finals now have in filling Croke Park illustrates one of the feedback points gathered by the Football Review Committee: non-partisan interest in most of the football championship is vanishing
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2024, 05:22:18 PMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/12/10/sean-moran-revenues-laissez-faire-attitude-to-county-finances-appears-to-be-over/
The precipitous drop in attendances, primarily but not exclusively in Leinster, and the difficulty even All-Ireland semi-finals now have in filling Croke Park illustrates one of the feedback points gathered by the Football Review Committee: non-partisan interest in most of the football championship is vanishing
On the topic of attendances Jim Gavin is a bit optimistic on the attraction of his new rules if thinks 26k plus will be at that match on the end of January
"I mean there's going to be great excitement. I can only imagine the atmosphere in Pearse Park and Salthill on the 25th of January when Galway take on Armagh. That's going to be a cracking game, a full house. Two All-Ireland finalists."
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2024, 06:32:04 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 13, 2024, 05:22:18 PMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/12/10/sean-moran-revenues-laissez-faire-attitude-to-county-finances-appears-to-be-over/
The precipitous drop in attendances, primarily but not exclusively in Leinster, and the difficulty even All-Ireland semi-finals now have in filling Croke Park illustrates one of the feedback points gathered by the Football Review Committee: non-partisan interest in most of the football championship is vanishing
On the topic of attendances Jim Gavin is a bit optimistic on the attraction of his new rules if thinks 26k plus will be at that match on the end of January
"I mean there's going to be great excitement. I can only imagine the atmosphere in Pearse Park and Salthill on the 25th of January when Galway take on Armagh. That's going to be a cracking game, a full house. Two All-Ireland finalists."
I'd say it will be close to it tbh, are hotels hard to get in Galway? Would be a great weekends craic.
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2024, 06:32:04 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 13, 2024, 05:22:18 PMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/12/10/sean-moran-revenues-laissez-faire-attitude-to-county-finances-appears-to-be-over/
The precipitous drop in attendances, primarily but not exclusively in Leinster, and the difficulty even All-Ireland semi-finals now have in filling Croke Park illustrates one of the feedback points gathered by the Football Review Committee: non-partisan interest in most of the football championship is vanishing
On the topic of attendances Jim Gavin is a bit optimistic on the attraction of his new rules if thinks 26k plus will be at that match on the end of January
"I mean there's going to be great excitement. I can only imagine the atmosphere in Pearse Park and Salthill on the 25th of January when Galway take on Armagh. That's going to be a cracking game, a full house. Two All-Ireland finalists."
We'd that at Casement one winter with Tyrone and Armagh playing in McKenna cup with well over 20k, it does happen, sometimes
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2024, 06:38:43 PMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2024, 06:32:04 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 13, 2024, 05:22:18 PMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/12/10/sean-moran-revenues-laissez-faire-attitude-to-county-finances-appears-to-be-over/
The precipitous drop in attendances, primarily but not exclusively in Leinster, and the difficulty even All-Ireland semi-finals now have in filling Croke Park illustrates one of the feedback points gathered by the Football Review Committee: non-partisan interest in most of the football championship is vanishing
On the topic of attendances Jim Gavin is a bit optimistic on the attraction of his new rules if thinks 26k plus will be at that match on the end of January
"I mean there's going to be great excitement. I can only imagine the atmosphere in Pearse Park and Salthill on the 25th of January when Galway take on Armagh. That's going to be a cracking game, a full house. Two All-Ireland finalists."
I'd say it will be close to it tbh, are hotels hard to get in Galway? Would be a great weekends craic.
Always hard to get in Galway city on Saturday night especially a reasonably priced one.
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2024, 07:20:58 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2024, 06:38:43 PMQuote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2024, 06:32:04 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 13, 2024, 05:22:18 PMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/12/10/sean-moran-revenues-laissez-faire-attitude-to-county-finances-appears-to-be-over/
The precipitous drop in attendances, primarily but not exclusively in Leinster, and the difficulty even All-Ireland semi-finals now have in filling Croke Park illustrates one of the feedback points gathered by the Football Review Committee: non-partisan interest in most of the football championship is vanishing
On the topic of attendances Jim Gavin is a bit optimistic on the attraction of his new rules if thinks 26k plus will be at that match on the end of January
"I mean there's going to be great excitement. I can only imagine the atmosphere in Pearse Park and Salthill on the 25th of January when Galway take on Armagh. That's going to be a cracking game, a full house. Two All-Ireland finalists."
I'd say it will be close to it tbh, are hotels hard to get in Galway? Would be a great weekends craic.
Always hard to get in Galway city on Saturday night especially a reasonably priced one.
You'll get one alright but won't be cheap I'd say. Looking forward to finally having a home game under lights after all these years.
Is there a different pricing model that can be looked at?
One that results in cutting even instead of having to make a profit?
It's just too dear now. I see they're charging U16s now under the guise of H&S.
Quote from: ONeill on December 13, 2024, 11:45:11 PMIs there a different pricing model that can be looked at?
One that results in cutting even instead of having to make a profit?
It's just too dear now. I see they're charging U16s now under the guise of H&S.
Profit? You know no one makes money? All the money goes back into the system to pay for things.
But yeah under 16's should be getting in free
Armagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
Quote from: bennydorano on December 15, 2024, 03:06:39 PMArmagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
Haven't watched it yet but sure that was always gonna happen, possession is key, but you'd imagine only having 12 back will help
Quote from: bennydorano on December 15, 2024, 03:06:39 PMArmagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
The only real difference is the place on the pitch the keepers have possession. But they still have slow and ponderous possessions.
I noticed one time in the first half Soupy went back into his own half as his team was attacking to get an errant pass, as he went back into his own half one of the other men back ran forward at pace to join the attack. That is fine. But it meant Soupy was one of the 3 players back in his own half when his team were attacking and he couldn't join them as there was no one else close enough to him to swap with him.
Teams need to be careful not to get caught in a position like that!!!
Anyone on the b team
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 15, 2024, 05:23:32 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 15, 2024, 03:06:39 PMArmagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
Haven't watched it yet but sure that was always gonna happen, possession is key, but you'd imagine only having 12 back will help
Anyone on b team put their hand up?
Quote from: bennydorano on December 15, 2024, 03:06:39 PMArmagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
Not sure why anyone thought it would be different. Managers are always going to find loopholes in the rules to give them the best chance of winning. Can see it being a bit more attacking but in the top games it isn't going to be like what was displayed during the railway cup
Quote from: bennydorano on December 15, 2024, 03:06:39 PMArmagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
The thing is though the FRC were somewhat limited in terms of what they could do at this stage.
The knew there was no point in coming up with rules that would improve the game if there was no chance of them being implementted.
If these rules don't have as much impact as the FRC hoped and teams continue to go out and play dour and defensive football, then I'd say it will be only a matter of months before the rules are improved further to penalise defensive dour football given that's what the majority of folk want to see.
Also I wouldn't exactly be shocked if Geezer had told both teams to play conservatively given he would know the game was being televised and there would likely be interested observers from other counties tuning in.
Quote from: twohands!!! on December 16, 2024, 10:18:42 AMQuote from: bennydorano on December 15, 2024, 03:06:39 PMArmagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
The thing is though the FRC were somewhat limited in terms of what they could do at this stage.
The knew there was no point in coming up with rules that would improve the game if there was no chance of them being implementted.
If these rules don't have as much impact as the FRC hoped and teams continue to go out and play dour and defensive football, then I'd say it will be only a matter of months before the rules are improved further to penalise defensive dour football given that's what the majority of folk want to see.
Also I wouldn't exactly be shocked if Geezer had told both teams to play conservatively given he would know the game was being televised and there would likely be interested observers from other counties tuning in.
Would he be that bothered?
What other rules could be brought in do you think that weren't trialled?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2024, 10:28:16 AMQuote from: twohands!!! on December 16, 2024, 10:18:42 AMQuote from: bennydorano on December 15, 2024, 03:06:39 PMArmagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
The thing is though the FRC were somewhat limited in terms of what they could do at this stage.
The knew there was no point in coming up with rules that would improve the game if there was no chance of them being implementted.
If these rules don't have as much impact as the FRC hoped and teams continue to go out and play dour and defensive football, then I'd say it will be only a matter of months before the rules are improved further to penalise defensive dour football given that's what the majority of folk want to see.
Also I wouldn't exactly be shocked if Geezer had told both teams to play conservatively given he would know the game was being televised and there would likely be interested observers from other counties tuning in.
Would he be that bothered?
What other rules could be brought in do you think that weren't trialled?
Of course he'd be bothered.
Off the top of my head some random shouts - man-on-man defending only i.e. if a 2nd player tackles a player in possession then a free to the player in possession - increase the number of players kept forward - make it illegal for a goalie to tackle a player - increase the value of a goal to 4/5/6 points - reduce teams to 14/13/12 - I'm sure that the lads on the FRC had a whole raft of other stuff if they needed to punish teams adopting a low-risk defensive approach if the new rules don't improve matters.
Quote from: twohands!!! on December 16, 2024, 02:39:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2024, 10:28:16 AMQuote from: twohands!!! on December 16, 2024, 10:18:42 AMQuote from: bennydorano on December 15, 2024, 03:06:39 PMArmagh A v Armagh B today under the new rules (live & free on Armagh TV). You honestly couldn't tell its under new rules and the FRC might not be pleased as it is pretty much the same old....
The thing is though the FRC were somewhat limited in terms of what they could do at this stage.
The knew there was no point in coming up with rules that would improve the game if there was no chance of them being implementted.
If these rules don't have as much impact as the FRC hoped and teams continue to go out and play dour and defensive football, then I'd say it will be only a matter of months before the rules are improved further to penalise defensive dour football given that's what the majority of folk want to see.
Also I wouldn't exactly be shocked if Geezer had told both teams to play conservatively given he would know the game was being televised and there would likely be interested observers from other counties tuning in.
Would he be that bothered?
What other rules could be brought in do you think that weren't trialled?
Of course he'd be bothered.
Off the top of my head some random shouts - man-on-man defending only i.e. if a 2nd player tackles a player in possession then a free to the player in possession - increase the number of players kept forward - make it illegal for a goalie to tackle a player - increase the value of a goal to 4/5/6 points - reduce teams to 14/13/12 - I'm sure that the lads on the FRC had a whole raft of other stuff if they needed to punish teams adopting a low-risk defensive approach if the new rules don't improve matters.
No matter what rules are brought in managers will always find a loophole to diminish the positive aspect. I couldn't see any of these working
I see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
I'm a struggling with the rationale behind this one. It's having extra rules for the sake of having rules.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
Whats the chances a shot is partially blocked/deflected go over from 40+ yards?
The post/bar? Surely that won't come in?
Quote from: thewobbler on December 17, 2024, 04:38:06 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
I'm a struggling with the rationale behind this one. It's having extra rules for the sake of having rules.
I think that's what the entire operation is.
Australian Rules goals have to be kicked cleanly between the posts.
Any touch off a player or post is only a "behind".
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
What if it Clipped the opponents fingertips? Is that 1 or 2 points?
Jesus , but they're making a balls of the game
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
Jez, you'll need 2 Referees, 4 umpires hawk eye and VAR to police that.
Keep things simple - I say!
Was nice and simple
Over bar = 1 point
Under bar - 3 points.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41538488.html
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 07:45:22 PMWas nice and simple
Over bar = 1 point
Under bar - 3 points.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41538488.html
There's currently an online seminar on now with Jim, explaining the new rules
Quote from: thewobbler on December 17, 2024, 04:38:06 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
I'm a struggling with the rationale behind this one. It's having extra rules for the sake of having rules.
Nothing new from GAA HQ only difference this time is having the new rules fronted by Saint Jim Gavin and getting maximum hype from the national media.
Just a heads up! This is going to be bonkers this year...
It's a new sport
These fellas don't know what's going on under no pressure and with it wrote in front of them and there's no mention of how they're going to support referees with this especially Club refs
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2024, 09:06:15 PMJust a heads up! This is going to be bonkers this year...
It's a new sport
Does it make you rethink refereeing? I honestly can't see how this is going to work at club level. Even the throw in, how are you supposed to know if the player behind you is staying at the line.
Also can't wait for the 2 pointers and people shouting it took a touch haha. This is going to be a mess
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on December 17, 2024, 09:17:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2024, 09:06:15 PMJust a heads up! This is going to be bonkers this year...
It's a new sport
Does it make you rethink refereeing? I honestly can't see how this is going to work at club level. Even the throw in, how are you supposed to know if the player behind you is staying at the line.
Also can't wait for the 2 pointers and people shouting it took a touch haha. This is going to be a mess
I think you're right. This is going to get ugly for referees. It seems difficult enough to recruit new referees as it is. These new rules certainly won't help
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2024, 09:06:15 PMJust a heads up! This is going to be bonkers this year...
It's a new sport
A frankenstein sport. A bit taken from other sports for a new creation.
I genuinely think at least one county board will abandon them 5-6 games into a club league due to utter chaos and some poor ref having to run for his life somewhere and refs refusing to participate.
And if one county board does it will open the flood gates. Be similar to the minor a few years ago where county boards decided there own rules regardless of HQ.
Some clarification needed on a few things which they are not sure about!
Anyone thinks this is going to fix football hasn't a clue
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2024, 10:09:39 PMSome clarification needed on a few things which they are not sure about!
Anyone thinks this is going to fix football hasn't a clue
I couldn't agree more.
It is much more likely to do the opposite. Complete and utter nonsense and we've been marched into it by the nose.
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 17, 2024, 09:24:26 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on December 17, 2024, 09:17:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2024, 09:06:15 PMJust a heads up! This is going to be bonkers this year...
It's a new sport
Does it make you rethink refereeing? I honestly can't see how this is going to work at club level. Even the throw in, how are you supposed to know if the player behind you is staying at the line.
Also can't wait for the 2 pointers and people shouting it took a touch haha. This is going to be a mess
I think you're right. This is going to get ugly for referees. It seems difficult enough to recruit new referees as it is. These new rules certainly won't help
But sure you wont be able to say boo to them or it'll be frees moved up all day long
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 17, 2024, 09:24:26 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on December 17, 2024, 09:17:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2024, 09:06:15 PMJust a heads up! This is going to be bonkers this year...
It's a new sport
Does it make you rethink refereeing? I honestly can't see how this is going to work at club level. Even the throw in, how are you supposed to know if the player behind you is staying at the line.
Also can't wait for the 2 pointers and people shouting it took a touch haha. This is going to be a mess
I think you're right. This is going to get ugly for referees. It seems difficult enough to recruit new referees as it is. These new rules certainly won't help
But sure you wont be able to say boo to them or it'll be frees moved up all day long
Quote from: pbat on December 17, 2024, 10:08:01 PMI genuinely think at least one county board will abandon them 5-6 games into a club league due to utter chaos and some poor ref having to run for his life somewhere and refs refusing to participate.
And if one county board does it will open the flood gates. Be similar to the minor a few years ago where county boards decided there own rules regardless of HQ.
Hope this happens tbh.
Just not workable at club level.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 12:09:54 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 17, 2024, 09:24:26 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on December 17, 2024, 09:17:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2024, 09:06:15 PMJust a heads up! This is going to be bonkers this year...
It's a new sport
Does it make you rethink refereeing? I honestly can't see how this is going to work at club level. Even the throw in, how are you supposed to know if the player behind you is staying at the line.
Also can't wait for the 2 pointers and people shouting it took a touch haha. This is going to be a mess
I think you're right. This is going to get ugly for referees. It seems difficult enough to recruit new referees as it is. These new rules certainly won't help
But sure you wont be able to say boo to them or it'll be frees moved up all day long
Not sure you need to say boo in the first place. Frees given, move on
On the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Quote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Its not just for dissent that you can move the ball forward 50 meters
Also I'm nearly sure he said that he advantage rule is at the referee's discretion ;D
Quote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Think the dissent rule is too harsh. Surely (respectfully/politely obviously) asking why a free was given is ok? Not deserving of a 50 yard punishment? And putting the ball down rather than handing it to an opponent shouldn't be punished either ffs.
The 3 up
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 09:07:47 AMQuote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Think the dissent rule is too harsh. Surely (respectfully/politely obviously) asking why a free was given is ok? Not deserving of a 50 yard punishment? And putting the ball down rather than handing it to an opponent shouldn't be punished either ffs.
The 3 up
The ref at the time explains why he's given the free, tug of jersey, push in back, steps.. so on, Explaining it again is wasted and the player should be getting into position instead of trying to convince the ref he was wrong?
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 09:07:47 AMQuote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Think the dissent rule is too harsh. Surely (respectfully/politely obviously) asking why a free was given is ok? Not deserving of a 50 yard punishment? And putting the ball down rather than handing it to an opponent shouldn't be punished either ffs.
The 3 up
It's all up to the referee which is my problem with it. Some refs could take being questioned as disrespect. We've seen the ball being moved 50m against Maher for standing in front of the man for 1 second. Players and managers are always going to find loopholes. If I was a manager I'd say to my players any time we get a free run into the closest opposition player there is and claim he was stopping you from kicking it. Best case scenario it's brought forward 50m for an easy point, worst case you still get the free from the original position. 0 downside to doing it. I'm sure theres loopholes with the other rules that we'll see in time
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 09:07:47 AMQuote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Think the dissent rule is too harsh. Surely (respectfully/politely obviously) asking why a free was given is ok? Not deserving of a 50 yard punishment? And putting the ball down rather than handing it to an opponent shouldn't be punished either ffs.
The 3 up
I was at a game in Armagh 2 years ago the ref came over to the two teams and said "my name is x, I prefer to the let the game flow I have no problem with you asking why I give a free but if you raise your voice or shout at me I will move it up. Have a good game lads" The game passed off without any major incident, there's alot to be said for treating players like adults too. There will be some referee's who will completely go to town on the dissent rule and there will be carnage.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2024, 09:13:39 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 09:07:47 AMQuote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Think the dissent rule is too harsh. Surely (respectfully/politely obviously) asking why a free was given is ok? Not deserving of a 50 yard punishment? And putting the ball down rather than handing it to an opponent shouldn't be punished either ffs.
The 3 up
The ref at the time explains why he's given the free, tug of jersey, push in back, steps.. so on, Explaining it again is wasted and the player should be getting into position instead of trying to convince the ref he was wrong?
I am not too sure this happens all the time in reality.
There's two broad types of mindset towards the 50m dissent rule:
1. This a good thing. I mean like why is it seen as okay in our sport that players can in sequence bellow vile, personal abuse at officials?
2. Referee are jumped-up power hungry c***ts and they deserve everything that comes their way.
From my experience those in the no.2 camp are largely a combination of bullies, cheats and spoiled bastards who have zero interest in fairness or equality. All they want is an official who gives them the ball back on a plate. Even witness anyone on this thread or others who take this stance. They have no interest in referees or refereeing. They just don't want to lose the ability to make a referee cower under their number. So f**k 'em. Time to get in line lads.
I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment but you have an awful habit of painting the world in black & white and hanging your opinion on it.
You have decided that those are the two camps.
There are a vast array of colours out there.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 18, 2024, 09:22:34 AMThere's two broad types of mindset towards the 50m dissent rule:
1. This a good thing. I mean like why is it seen as okay in our sport that players can in sequence bellow vile, personal abuse at officials?
2. Referee are jumped-up power hungry c***ts and they deserve everything that comes their way.
From my experience those in the no.2 camp are largely a combination of bullies, cheats and spoiled bastards who have zero interest in fairness or equality. All they want is an official who gives them the ball back on a plate. Even witness anyone on this thread or others who take this stance. They have no interest in referees or refereeing. They just don't want to lose the ability to make a referee cower under their number. So f**k 'em. Time to get in line lads.
Give it a rest you do gooder gimp
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 18, 2024, 09:28:27 AMI don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment but you have an awful habit of painting the world in black & white and hanging your opinion on it.
You have decided that those are the two camps.
There are a vast array of colours out there.
Honestly I don't think there is.
——-
Here is a common scenario from the neutral's perspective:
There's a high, physical challenge around the 45m line. The big midfielder involved immediately pleads his innocence to the ref. Not to complain about the foul so much as to try to avoid a card.
His teammate, let's call him psycho corner back sees the verbals and runs 40m to join in. Opens with a mouthful of venom, then berates him for missing an "identical" incident in reverse 5 minutes previous. The former incident was a fair shoulder but that's irrelevant.
Ref asks him to go away. He keeps talking, and throws in the famous "there are two teams out here" line. Ref tells him to go away, or he will move the ball up. The psycho tells him he might as well take the kick himself. Ball is moved up 13m. A few more of psycho's teammates get involved in verbals now, disgusted that the ball was moved up. Which ironically leaves the ref with no choice but to move it up 13m more. And after a short pause he finally gets around to booking big midfielder for the high tackle.
Opposition of course score this easy free and with 5-6 of psycho's teammates - plus his management - now focused on the referee, instead of playing football, they completely lose momentum for a short period of time.
——-
Here's same scenario from psycho corner back's perspective, when talking about it later in the club.
f**king referee is a f**king knob. A cheat. A ****. I tell you. Gave that shower of bastards a free for nothing and when I asked him about it he moved it not f**king once but f**king twice. f**king might as well have put on one of their jerseys the cheating ****.
He's been at it for years. Hates us that ****, hates us. Thinks we are all there to watch him.
——-
If this scenario seems even slightly far fetched, then you're not watching closely enough. Or at all.
Nobody disagrees with psycho when he's from your club. So he can get away with this nonsense perspective and indeed add to it.
His day is numbered. His own will the turning on him soon. They'll have no choice.
Quote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 09:20:51 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2024, 09:13:39 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 09:07:47 AMQuote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Think the dissent rule is too harsh. Surely (respectfully/politely obviously) asking why a free was given is ok? Not deserving of a 50 yard punishment? And putting the ball down rather than handing it to an opponent shouldn't be punished either ffs.
The 3 up
The ref at the time explains why he's given the free, tug of jersey, push in back, steps.. so on, Explaining it again is wasted and the player should be getting into position instead of trying to convince the ref he was wrong?
I am not too sure this happens all the time in reality.
So the ref blows whistle and says nothing? No gesture or indication of reason? strange
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 18, 2024, 09:28:27 AMI don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment but you have an awful habit of painting the world in black & white and hanging your opinion on it.
You have decided that those are the two camps.
There are a vast array of colours out there.
There was some nuance in the line
bullies, cheats and spoiled bastards which to be fair has a ring of truth to it, ironically proven in the post immediately after yours, because its OK vomit your opinions at people apparently
Quote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 09:19:56 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 09:07:47 AMQuote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Think the dissent rule is too harsh. Surely (respectfully/politely obviously) asking why a free was given is ok? Not deserving of a 50 yard punishment? And putting the ball down rather than handing it to an opponent shouldn't be punished either ffs.
The 3 up
I was at a game in Armagh 2 years ago the ref came over to the two teams and said "my name is x, I prefer to the let the game flow I have no problem with you asking why I give a free but if you raise your voice or shout at me I will move it up. Have a good game lads" The game passed off without any major incident, there's alot to be said for treating players like adults too. There will be some referee's who will completely go to town on the dissent rule and there will be carnage.
Yeah know a couple of refs like that. No ego, no bullshit taken.
Quote from: thebigfullforward on December 18, 2024, 09:17:42 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 09:07:47 AMQuote from: statto on December 18, 2024, 08:48:19 AMOn the GAA Tobar website there are 58 frequently asked questions I make it in relation to the rule changes. That is absolutely shocking that we are asking referees to get up to speed with this amount of change at club level.
In addition to that a number of players won't know the rules now(more so), not every player is a student of the game which will no doubt result in further disrespect to the man in the middle. Its not going to be easy for coaches either. The three up rule would been a good basis for change and possibly the hooter and dissent rule which will help the ref and make it more attractive.
Think the dissent rule is too harsh. Surely (respectfully/politely obviously) asking why a free was given is ok? Not deserving of a 50 yard punishment? And putting the ball down rather than handing it to an opponent shouldn't be punished either ffs.
The 3 up
It's all up to the referee which is my problem with it. Some refs could take being questioned as disrespect. We've seen the ball being moved 50m against Maher for standing in front of the man for 1 second. Players and managers are always going to find loopholes. If I was a manager I'd say to my players any time we get a free run into the closest opposition player there is and claim he was stopping you from kicking it. Best case scenario it's brought forward 50m for an easy point, worst case you still get the free from the original position. 0 downside to doing it. I'm sure theres loopholes with the other rules that we'll see in time
Yeah definitely, take your solo and go into the nearest man. Can see refs falling for that unfortunately.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 18, 2024, 12:09:54 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 17, 2024, 09:24:26 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on December 17, 2024, 09:17:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2024, 09:06:15 PMJust a heads up! This is going to be bonkers this year...
It's a new sport
Does it make you rethink refereeing? I honestly can't see how this is going to work at club level. Even the throw in, how are you supposed to know if the player behind you is staying at the line.
Also can't wait for the 2 pointers and people shouting it took a touch haha. This is going to be a mess
I think you're right. This is going to get ugly for referees. It seems difficult enough to recruit new referees as it is. These new rules certainly won't help
But sure you wont be able to say boo to them or it'll be frees moved up all day long
I was thinking more about the abuse they might get from the terraces, and spectators jumping the fence
I always struggle with the line that the referee is a cheat? How does that come about? He's not refereeing his own club, he'll be refereeing two rival clubs so its difficult to see who he's cheating unless its both of them lol
This is coming from a ex player, manager, supporter first, but also as a ref its complete stupidity to berate the ref, I'm not sure what the reasoning is, the gobshites behind the fence will also bear some responsibility now as the ref won't know if the line is shouting at him or some header behind the wire, he'll just move it forward if he hears abuse
Quote from: thewobbler on December 18, 2024, 09:22:34 AMThere's two broad types of mindset towards the 50m dissent rule:
1. This a good thing. I mean like why is it seen as okay in our sport that players can in sequence bellow vile, personal abuse at officials?
2. Referee are jumped-up power hungry c***ts and they deserve everything that comes their way.
From my experience those in the no.2 camp are largely a combination of bullies, cheats and spoiled bastards who have zero interest in fairness or equality. All they want is an official who gives them the ball back on a plate. Even witness anyone on this thread or others who take this stance. They have no interest in referees or refereeing. They just don't want to lose the ability to make a referee cower under their number. So f**k 'em. Time to get in line lads.
Scenario. Ref gives a free for what seems like nothing. Just points. You say what was that for ref? Ball is brought forward 50 yards for a 2 pointer chance. Hardly right.
Quote from: thewobbler on December 18, 2024, 09:47:12 AMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 18, 2024, 09:28:27 AMI don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment but you have an awful habit of painting the world in black & white and hanging your opinion on it.
You have decided that those are the two camps.
There are a vast array of colours out there.
Honestly I don't think there is.
——-
Here is a common scenario from the neutral's perspective:
There's a high, physical challenge around the 45m line. The big midfielder involved immediately pleads his innocence to the ref. Not to complain about the foul so much as to try to avoid a card.
His teammate, let's call him psycho corner back sees the verbals and runs 40m to join in. Opens with a mouthful of venom, then berates him for missing an "identical" incident in reverse 5 minutes previous. The former incident was a fair shoulder but that's irrelevant.
Ref asks him to go away. He keeps talking, and throws in the famous "there are two teams out here" line. Ref tells him to go away, or he will move the ball up. The psycho tells him he might as well take the kick himself. Ball is moved up 13m. A few more of psycho's teammates get involved in verbals now, disgusted that the ball was moved up. Which ironically leaves the ref with no choice but to move it up 13m more. And after a short pause he finally gets around to booking big midfielder for the high tackle.
Opposition of course score this easy free and with 5-6 of psycho's teammates - plus his management - now focused on the referee, instead of playing football, they completely lose momentum for a short period of time.
——-
Here's same scenario from psycho corner back's perspective, when talking about it later in the club.
f**king referee is a f**king knob. A cheat. A ****. I tell you. Gave that shower of bastards a free for nothing and when I asked him about it he moved it not f**king once but f**king twice. f**king might as well have put on one of their jerseys the cheating ****.
He's been at it for years. Hates us that ****, hates us. Thinks we are all there to watch him.
——-
If this scenario seems even slightly far fetched, then you're not watching closely enough. Or at all.
Nobody disagrees with psycho when he's from your club. So he can get away with this nonsense perspective and indeed add to it.
His day is numbered. His own will the turning on him soon. They'll have no choice.
Just take your example.
I don't think many would complain if the psycho corner back is carded and the ball moved up 50 yards.
Under the new rules though- if your example had ended with the big midfielder pleading his innocence- the ball is still moved up 50 yards. Imo thats very harsh. Obviously as long as he isn't screaming abuse at the ref.
Do any Refs use the black card when they're verbally abused?.
I wonder will CC make any changes after the 1st 2 NFL rounds?
Armagh18, you seem to be operating from the principle that referees are incompetent and incapable of using commonsense.
The 50m rule isn't being brought in to turn referees into unapproachable demi-gods who are empowered to unleash fury at all times.
It's being brought in so that players (and mentors) show greater respect to referees.
Are there poor referees? Yes. Will some of them apply the 50m rule differently? Yes. Will some apply the 50m rule too often? Yes.
But the general trend in your responses to this thread is that the player has a right to call out a referee. Personally I think it's grossly unfair that the independent arbitrator should have to explain and re explain and re explain his decision to people who don't wish to accept the decision. That's the part of the problem that's being resolved here.
I've used it (black card) a few times, maybe could have used it more. I get frustration, annoyance, grievances and all that, but directed personal abuse is not going to cut it, neither is after the explanation for further reasons as to why. Then, that's on the player..
I've played juvenile through to senior in both codes for many many years, I've yet in all those games had the ref go "ah ya know, your right, feck it. no free play on" He may make mistakes and on reflection realise that but that's gone, put the ball down walk away into position
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
Bullshit this is exactly what it says
Q. I take a kick from outside the arc, it landed in the large rectangle and our full-forward punched it over the crossbar? Is it counted a 1 or 2pts score?
A. 1pt. A shot for 2pts must go directly over the bar i.e. it will only count as 1pt if it is flicked/palmed/punched over the crossbar by a player on either team.
Doesnt mention hitting crossbar or posts.
Quote from: meatsy86 on December 18, 2024, 12:49:40 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
Bullshit this is exactly what it says
Q. I take a kick from outside the arc, it landed in the large rectangle and our full-forward punched it over the crossbar? Is it counted a 1 or 2pts score?
A. 1pt. A shot for 2pts must go directly over the bar i.e. it will only count as 1pt if it is flicked/palmed/punched over the crossbar by a player on either team.
Doesnt mention hitting crossbar or posts.
That question was asked last night along with others and clarification is required by that rules body on some points that were brought to the committee
Why it wasn't just brought into the FL first instead of just running it with all clubs is beyond me
Quote from: meatsy86 on December 18, 2024, 12:49:40 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
Bullshit this is exactly what it says
Q. I take a kick from outside the arc, it landed in the large rectangle and our full-forward punched it over the crossbar? Is it counted a 1 or 2pts score?
A. 1pt. A shot for 2pts must go directly over the bar i.e. it will only count as 1pt if it is flicked/palmed/punched over the crossbar by a player on either team.
Doesnt mention hitting crossbar or posts.
What if the keeper/defender on the goal line, tries to catch the ball above the crossbar but it slips through his fingers? 1 or 2 points?
I'm assuming only 1.
Which is madness really. Because if your kick is good enough for a 2 pointer, then a deflection/partial block would make it harder to reach the goal, so it should definitely be a 2 pointer
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 18, 2024, 01:31:08 PMQuote from: meatsy86 on December 18, 2024, 12:49:40 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
Bullshit this is exactly what it says
Q. I take a kick from outside the arc, it landed in the large rectangle and our full-forward punched it over the crossbar? Is it counted a 1 or 2pts score?
A. 1pt. A shot for 2pts must go directly over the bar i.e. it will only count as 1pt if it is flicked/palmed/punched over the crossbar by a player on either team.
Doesnt mention hitting crossbar or posts.
What if the keeper/defender on the goal line, tries to catch the ball above the crossbar but it slips through his fingers? 1 or 2 points?
I'm assuming only 1.
Which is madness really. Because if your kick is good enough for a 2 pointer, then a deflection/partial block would make it harder to reach the goal, so it should definitely be a 2 pointer
What would the rule be if an opposition player goes for a block and gets something on it but not enough to stop it going over the bar? Surely that would be a 2 pointer. Have they clarified all these what ifs anywhere?
Quote from: thebigfullforward on December 18, 2024, 03:00:48 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on December 18, 2024, 01:31:08 PMQuote from: meatsy86 on December 18, 2024, 12:49:40 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2024, 04:27:49 PMI see the new 2 pointers have to be kicked cleanly over the bar.
Any deflections (or hitting bar or post???) = 1 point.
Bullshit this is exactly what it says
Q. I take a kick from outside the arc, it landed in the large rectangle and our full-forward punched it over the crossbar? Is it counted a 1 or 2pts score?
A. 1pt. A shot for 2pts must go directly over the bar i.e. it will only count as 1pt if it is flicked/palmed/punched over the crossbar by a player on either team.
Doesnt mention hitting crossbar or posts.
What if the keeper/defender on the goal line, tries to catch the ball above the crossbar but it slips through his fingers? 1 or 2 points?
I'm assuming only 1.
Which is madness really. Because if your kick is good enough for a 2 pointer, then a deflection/partial block would make it harder to reach the goal, so it should definitely be a 2 pointer
What would the rule be if an opposition player goes for a block and gets something on it but not enough to stop it going over the bar? Surely that would be a 2 pointer. Have they clarified all these what ifs anywhere?
No, first chat with those on the frontlines was last night, no doubt there will be a mountain of questions before the likes of the referees have their yearly meetings
What if a player takes a shot outside the 40m arc and it clips a teammate and goes over?
What if it hits the referee and goes over?
Or a seagull?
I don't think they've thought this through
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 18, 2024, 03:11:38 PMWhat if a player takes a shot outside the 40m arc and it clips a teammate and goes over?
What if it hits the referee and goes over?
Or a seagull?
I don't think they've thought this through
Any contact with the ref has always been a hop ball, be no different and if he's clipping a team mate from outside the 40 and it manages to go over, he should be getting 4 points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNCJPrngohM
Essential viewing
https://www.gaa.ie/article/frc-outline-next-steps-in-implementation-of-rule-enhancements
Quote from: Rossfan on December 20, 2024, 04:02:04 PMhttps://www.gaa.ie/article/frc-outline-next-steps-in-implementation-of-rule-enhancements
The rules will probably have to be modified in some ways over the coming years for whatever reason, perhaps as teams adapt a rule as it was intended isn't working any more so the Games Intelligence Unit will have the data to measure it and to make proposals.
So basically the FRC can just change rules when teams adapt to these rules? This is mental
I was on the referees online webinar the other night for referees; I counted three times the lad leading it got a rule wrong and had to be corrected by another fella.
f**king mad.
In terms of this will managers switch up panels to get lads that suit the new rules?
A lot of talk about keepers and you'd be looking at maybe different styles of defenders or forwards.
Quote from: theticklemister on December 23, 2024, 05:00:28 PMI was on the referees online webinar the other night for referees; I counted three times the lad leading it got a rule wrong and had to be corrected by another fella.
f**king mad.
Of all the years to abolish the McKenna Cup
Quote from: APM on December 26, 2024, 10:29:50 PMQuote from: theticklemister on December 23, 2024, 05:00:28 PMI was on the referees online webinar the other night for referees; I counted three times the lad leading it got a rule wrong and had to be corrected by another fella.
f**king mad.
Of all the years to abolish the McKenna Cup
Silly decision alright.
Not sure what the logic was but pre-season competitions would be ideal for players especially to try and grasp the new rules.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on December 26, 2024, 09:29:43 PMIn terms of this will managers switch up panels to get lads that suit the new rules?
A lot of talk about keepers and you'd be looking at maybe different styles of defenders or forwards.
Think we're seeing that already with Murphy coming back, can see Ethan Rafferty getting his place back for Armagh too
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 27, 2024, 09:52:40 AMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on December 26, 2024, 09:29:43 PMIn terms of this will managers switch up panels to get lads that suit the new rules?
A lot of talk about keepers and you'd be looking at maybe different styles of defenders or forwards.
Think we're seeing that already with Murphy coming back, can see Ethan Rafferty getting his place back for Armagh too
Plus Mc Kiernan back for Cavan. Similiar to Murphy in a way. Could go to edge of square or kick 2 pointers.
Both good assets to have back on the panel.
Counties should have gone ahead anyway and arranged black-market McKenna Cup fixtures.
Quote from: ONeill on December 27, 2024, 10:21:01 PMCounties should have gone ahead anyway and arranged black-market McKenna Cup fixtures.
It was the GPA drove for no pre-league games. Will be pre-season for clubs (in Tyrone anyway. Jim Devlin Cup etc).
Quote from: ONeill on December 27, 2024, 10:21:01 PMCounties should have gone ahead anyway and arranged black-market McKenna Cup fixtures.
With cash only at the gate.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 28, 2024, 03:42:51 PMQuote from: ONeill on December 27, 2024, 10:21:01 PMCounties should have gone ahead anyway and arranged black-market McKenna Cup fixtures.
With cash only at the gate.
And played with the floodlights off just in case someone touts on them to HQ
Did a game today with the new rules...
I tried to concentrate on how best to position myself within the game to work out the positioning of the three players inside their own half, the kick outs, the tap and go (as you ain't ready for it as you'd move up the pitch a bit) there was other stuff that had you second guessing to, inside/outside the 40 zone and so on.
I thought I'd come off a bit more confused but wasn't as bad so far (one swallow doesn't make a summer) I think it'll take the ref's a good few few games to understand and adopt.
Challenge games are one thing though
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2024, 02:19:17 PMDid a game today with the new rules...
I tried to concentrate on how best to position myself within the game to work out the positioning of the three players inside their own half, the kick outs, the tap and go (as you ain't ready for it as you'd move up the pitch a bit) there was other stuff that had you second guessing to, inside/outside the 40 zone and so on.
I thought I'd come off a bit more confused but wasn't as bad so far (one swallow doesn't make a summer) I think it'll take the ref's a good few few games to understand and adopt.
Challenge games are one thing though
MR2 what age group, level was the game?
Intercounty
I take it the linesmen have responsibility for monitoring the 3 forwards rule?
It is the referees responsibility however I am sure the linesmen will have a role to play also.
MR2 did you find much issue in dealing with this? Initially I think it will be relatively straightforward as teams will largely stick to a set 3 players inside the half (i.e. not neccesarily the same 3 all the time, but 3 will be nominated in any given period of the game and any deviance will require clear communication that will be relatively obvious.) The risk of a 20m free in front of the posts for an infraction is just too much for anyone to try to dupe a referee or gain an intentional advantage.
What could be difficult for a referee is when a player is "carrying, receiving or intercepting" right at the halfway line and you've simultaneously got to see if the player is crossing the line and whether other players have moved into the space to facilitate that or not. It will be infrequent but marginal calls will be difficult to get right. At least the punishment for this is not as severe and only a free from the position of the infraction (or a throw up if both foul simultaneously.) I don't think people should get too hung up on that either, it will be a rare occurrence and referees will become savvier with experience.
Referees need to be given some discretion in terms of the intention of the player. If they cross the halfway line but have not effected the play and return back into position asap then why penalise them? I think there is some allowance given for this, or at least it was considered? A very strict application of the rule might appear a good idea to help embed the rule, however I believe over time this will only lead to more problems. Teams will start to develop strategies to try to dupe an infraction from the defending team and this would become a game in itself!
I'd only one occasion of a player leaving the halfway line, but it was made aware to me, by the time I looked round, as I was following the play, all 6 were back in position.
Linesmen can't call frees, they can only help when asked, and during club games it'll be the ref on his own to work out.
Never got to bring the ball 50 meters though, no doubt that'll happen more when the games have more to them than just challenge games
Was confused more on what the keeper can and can't do, that will catch teams out at the start of the year
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2024, 02:13:01 PMI'd only one occasion of a player leaving the halfway line, but it was made aware to me, by the time I looked round, as I was following the play, all 6 were back in position.
Linesmen can't call frees, they can only help when asked, and during club games it'll be the ref on his own to work out.
Never got to bring the ball 50 meters though, no doubt that'll happen more when the games have more to them than just challenge games
Was confused more on what the keeper can and can't do, that will catch teams out at the start of the year
The bit in bold is out of date. It is very clear that linesmen have responsibiluty for managing 3 up and will be shouting for the whistle in a ref's ear at IC level.
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 30, 2024, 02:55:15 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2024, 02:13:01 PMI'd only one occasion of a player leaving the halfway line, but it was made aware to me, by the time I looked round, as I was following the play, all 6 were back in position.
Linesmen can't call frees, they can only help when asked, and during club games it'll be the ref on his own to work out.
Never got to bring the ball 50 meters though, no doubt that'll happen more when the games have more to them than just challenge games
Was confused more on what the keeper can and can't do, that will catch teams out at the start of the year
The bit in bold is out of date. It is very clear that linesmen have responsibiluty for managing 3 up and will be shouting for the whistle in a ref's ear at IC level.
Yes that 1% of our games will probably be best looked after, the 99% of our games though will barely have the pitch up to standards
Lines might be hard to see as well especially the silly 40m arc.
Well be some craic with the new rules with fog. Glen v Kilmacud Crokes last January springs to mind.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2024, 03:19:50 PMQuote from: DuffleKing on December 30, 2024, 02:55:15 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2024, 02:13:01 PMI'd only one occasion of a player leaving the halfway line, but it was made aware to me, by the time I looked round, as I was following the play, all 6 were back in position.
Linesmen can't call frees, they can only help when asked, and during club games it'll be the ref on his own to work out.
Never got to bring the ball 50 meters though, no doubt that'll happen more when the games have more to them than just challenge games
Was confused more on what the keeper can and can't do, that will catch teams out at the start of the year
The bit in bold is out of date. It is very clear that linesmen have responsibiluty for managing 3 up and will be shouting for the whistle in a ref's ear at IC level.
Yes that 1% of our games will probably be best looked after, the 99% of our games though will barely have the pitch up to standards
I don't see anyone disagreeing with you there boss
Bit confused here. So you're saying linesmen can't tell you it's a free?
Quote from: ONeill on December 30, 2024, 11:50:51 PMBit confused here. So you're saying linesmen can't tell you it's a free?
Never could
So if you're dealing with play in and around the square, and there are 1-3 of the designated players over the halfway line, the linesman can't tell you?
Quote from: ONeill on December 31, 2024, 12:36:26 AMSo if you're dealing with play in and around the square, and there are 1-3 of the designated players over the halfway line, the linesman can't tell you?
Unless that's changed in the new rules, the linesman has to stay with play, also he might not get to see that situation
Also 99% of our games we don't have linesmen
Ref's would need to be mic'd up for every game to have use of a linesman helping out. Just not possible
Excuse me but can we please start calling them by their proper title - line umpires.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2024, 09:40:05 AMQuote from: ONeill on December 31, 2024, 12:36:26 AMSo if you're dealing with play in and around the square, and there are 1-3 of the designated players over the halfway line, the linesman can't tell you?
Unless that's changed in the new rules, the linesman has to stay with play, also he might not get to see that situation
Also 99% of our games we don't have linesmen
Ref's would need to be mic'd up for every game to have use of a linesman helping out. Just not possible
This really is going to be a disaster at club level isn't it? Who'd be a ref eh
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 31, 2024, 10:11:39 AMExcuse me but can we please start calling them by their proper title - line umpires.
Something I'm hearing more and more of is Lino! Is that a soccer thing?
Hopefully it's not "Wino".
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2024, 10:39:20 AMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 31, 2024, 10:11:39 AMExcuse me but can we please start calling them by their proper title - line umpires.
Something I'm hearing more and more of is Lino! Is that a soccer thing?
well, we have women on the line sometimes now so maybe its just a gender neutral term??? But yeah, I think its a soccer thing
I think those shouting at the linesperson are not the gender respect type ya think.
Questions with regards to your eyesight parentage lack of hair/height/weight and ability don't seem to be a concern to these yahoos
Seen it mentioned on Social media that Donegal have been trying Murphy out as GK. one of the best forwards in the country gonna be able to be the free man on an overload with more space. Brilliant.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 03, 2025, 02:28:43 PMSeen it mentioned on Social media that Donegal have been trying Murphy out as GK. one of the best forwards in the country gonna be able to be the free man on an overload with more space. Brilliant.
Patton is a fantastic keeper find that a little bizarre. Could be a complete disaster when they are turned over.
Quote from: statto on January 03, 2025, 02:36:31 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 03, 2025, 02:28:43 PMSeen it mentioned on Social media that Donegal have been trying Murphy out as GK. one of the best forwards in the country gonna be able to be the free man on an overload with more space. Brilliant.
Patton is a fantastic keeper find that a little bizarre. Could be a complete disaster when they are turned over.
Patton is a cracking keeper, but its really going to be risk and reward, if Murphy gets a couple of 2pters and a point and maybe sets a few up then getting caught out and conceding a goal is prob seen as worth it. Again its only challenge games and as we know JMcG is the fella who's tactics really changed things last time, he's def going to be looking for advantages now straight out of the blocks
Someone like Murphy moving up and being an outlet would be a threat. It's not like in soccer where he is the only one who needs to run back into goals, they have pace who could clog it up on the odd turnover.
Imagine him just popping passes around and always facing the goal. His boot from kickouts would be seriously accurate too.
James Horan and various others tipping Donegal to win Sam this year.
12 months ago it was between Dublin and Kerry with Derry the best outside chance.
Theres obviously no way you'll leave Murphy free because he'll kick 2 pointers all day, but Donegal have a lot of players capable of kicking 2 pointers.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2025, 03:31:51 PMJames Horan and various others tipping Donegal to win Sam this year.
12 months ago it was between Dublin and Kerry with Derry the best outside chance.
Not for me. So much fell right for Donegal last year. They'll do very well to make a semi final this year imo
Quote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2025, 03:31:51 PMJames Horan and various others tipping Donegal to win Sam this year.
12 months ago it was between Dublin and Kerry with Derry the best outside chance.
Have noticed that and seems to be based on the return of Murphy and others plus how McGuinness won the All Ireland in his first term in his 2nd year.
Quote from: Blowitupref on January 03, 2025, 08:39:34 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2025, 03:31:51 PMJames Horan and various others tipping Donegal to win Sam this year.
12 months ago it was between Dublin and Kerry with Derry the best outside chance.
Have noticed that and seems to be based on the return of Murphy and others plus how McGuinness won the All Ireland in his first term in his 2nd year.
Also probably based on the fact that Donegal could easily have won last year and seem to have strengthened their panel this year. Everyone is expecting them to be one of the teams best placed to take advantage of the new rules because of JMcG but we'll find out soon enough.
Quote from: lenny on January 04, 2025, 08:52:37 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on January 03, 2025, 08:39:34 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2025, 03:31:51 PMJames Horan and various others tipping Donegal to win Sam this year.
12 months ago it was between Dublin and Kerry with Derry the best outside chance.
Have noticed that and seems to be based on the return of Murphy and others plus how McGuinness won the All Ireland in his first term in his 2nd year.
Also probably based on the fact that Donegal could easily have won last year and seem to have strengthened their panel this year. Everyone is expecting them to be one of the teams best placed to take advantage of the new rules because of JMcG but we'll find out soon enough.
They're one of 8 possible winners imo depending on luck, injuries, form of key men, adapting to the new rules and about 100 more things. Last year Derry were being tipped by lots and ended up peaking in March and beat out the gate come championship. Galway have built a serious panel and if they can keep their big men fit they'll be hard stopped. Armagh could go either way I think, but even if we don't win it again still fit to take a big scalp or 2.
Quote from: lenny on January 04, 2025, 08:52:37 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on January 03, 2025, 08:39:34 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2025, 03:31:51 PMJames Horan and various others tipping Donegal to win Sam this year.
12 months ago it was between Dublin and Kerry with Derry the best outside chance.
Have noticed that and seems to be based on the return of Murphy and others plus how McGuinness won the All Ireland in his first term in his 2nd year.
Also probably based on the fact that Donegal could easily have won last year and seem to have strengthened their panel this year. Everyone is expecting them to be one of the teams best placed to take advantage of the new rules because of JMcG but we'll find out soon enough.
Shooting accuracy is where they lost the semi final. Was near 80% first half v Galway and 2nd half down to 36%.
Six 2 pointers for Galway.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/its-football-but-not-as-we-have-known-it-galway-make-most-of-new-rules/a89013898.html
No 2 pointers in Rhus v Monaghan game.
Paul Conroy kicking long range points is not a new thing but now it's a huge boost, and you'd hope lads who can kick from distance will let rip a bt more. Rian O'Neill will be another serious weapon this season.
But, it's a thing whereby if you don't have those lads then teams with poorer set-ups will be trying to get these shots away and miss.
On the flip in terms of the 12 v 11 with the goalies, I'd argue some teams won't want another body added to the mix. I know Kildare forwards tend to be the best opposition defenders at times when they run on top and bottle each other up.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on January 05, 2025, 12:40:11 PMPaul Conroy kicking long range points is not a new thing but now it's a huge boost, and you'd hope lads who can kick from distance will let rip a bt more. Rian O'Neill will be another serious weapon this season.
But, it's a thing whereby if you don't have those lads then teams with poorer set-ups will be trying to get these shots away and miss.
On the flip in terms of the 12 v 11 with the goalies, I'd argue some teams won't want another body added to the mix. I know Kildare forwards tend to be the best opposition defenders at times when they run on top and bottle each other up.
Word is Rian O'Neill won't be kicking two pointers in county colours this year.
Quote from: Pocs pints and the gaa on January 05, 2025, 08:05:42 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on January 05, 2025, 12:40:11 PMPaul Conroy kicking long range points is not a new thing but now it's a huge boost, and you'd hope lads who can kick from distance will let rip a bt more. Rian O'Neill will be another serious weapon this season.
But, it's a thing whereby if you don't have those lads then teams with poorer set-ups will be trying to get these shots away and miss.
On the flip in terms of the 12 v 11 with the goalies, I'd argue some teams won't want another body added to the mix. I know Kildare forwards tend to be the best opposition defenders at times when they run on top and bottle each other up.
Word is Rian O'Neill won't be kicking two pointers in county colours this year.
Injuries or taking a rest?
Quote from: Pocs pints and the gaa on January 05, 2025, 08:05:42 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on January 05, 2025, 12:40:11 PMPaul Conroy kicking long range points is not a new thing but now it's a huge boost, and you'd hope lads who can kick from distance will let rip a bt more. Rian O'Neill will be another serious weapon this season.
But, it's a thing whereby if you don't have those lads then teams with poorer set-ups will be trying to get these shots away and miss.
On the flip in terms of the 12 v 11 with the goalies, I'd argue some teams won't want another body added to the mix. I know Kildare forwards tend to be the best opposition defenders at times when they run on top and bottle each other up.
Word is Rian O'Neill won't be kicking two pointers in county colours this year.
He'll be back.
Journalist Maurice Brosnan who attended Mayo v Monaghan challenge last night.
QuoteNo two-pointers.
Mayo dropped ten shots short. Finished with 43% conversion.
Lots of contested kickouts. 59% retention for Mayo, 50% for Monaghan
Rory Beggan had 22 possessions.
Seen another amendment to the rules, if a free is given outside the 40m arc and the ref moves it forward for dissent say, the resulting free will result in 2 points, as the original free was from outside..
Would stop those cute hoors slabbering to get the free down to a 1 pointer ;)
Nope. The free taker has the choice to take it from outside the arc for 2 points, or else take it right in for 1 point
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 07, 2025, 10:17:05 PMNope. The free taker has the choice to take it from outside the arc for 2 points, or else take it right in for 1 point
Like I said I just seen it on an amended/expanded document
Saw that myself.
Fcuk knows what we'll end up with by the time a ball is thrown in.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 07, 2025, 10:24:51 PMSaw that myself.
Fcuk knows what we'll end up with by the time a ball is thrown in.
It's extremely unfair on the club teams on this that they could be training on these new rules and then at the 11th hour a rule can be changed. Also tough on coaches who may be working on something particular to give them a competitive advantage and the GAA reserve the right to change the rule if they decide a week or two before a league season starts. This GAA is for all narrative is a load of nonsense, the changing of all these rules is to ensure that the three big games in Croke Park i.e. AI semi finals and finals are shown in a good light to a wider audience, but two fingers up to the junior/intermediate clubs and the referees at this level that have to facilitate all the change.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2025, 10:21:24 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 07, 2025, 10:17:05 PMNope. The free taker has the choice to take it from outside the arc for 2 points, or else take it right in for 1 point
Like I said I just seen it on an amended/expanded document
Only yesterday the GAA launched this video that says they can take it outside the 40m arc for 2 points (link below).
If what you are saying is correct then talk about confusion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dkc87y65xw&t=1235s
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 08, 2025, 09:02:07 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2025, 10:21:24 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 07, 2025, 10:17:05 PMNope. The free taker has the choice to take it from outside the arc for 2 points, or else take it right in for 1 point
Like I said I just seen it on an amended/expanded document
Only yesterday the GAA launched this video that says they can take it outside the 40m arc for 2 points (link below).
If what you are saying is correct then talk about confusion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dkc87y65xw&t=1235s
Yeah its disorganised and each scenario throws up a question mark it seems, I'm happy to apply that rule as it will again cut out the slabbering, and players will eventually concentrate on tackling the BALL not the man and when a free is given, walk away when the whistle is blown, regardless of whether they think its not
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 09:05:42 AMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 08, 2025, 09:02:07 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2025, 10:21:24 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 07, 2025, 10:17:05 PMNope. The free taker has the choice to take it from outside the arc for 2 points, or else take it right in for 1 point
Like I said I just seen it on an amended/expanded document
Only yesterday the GAA launched this video that says they can take it outside the 40m arc for 2 points (link below).
If what you are saying is correct then talk about confusion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dkc87y65xw&t=1235s
Yeah its disorganised and each scenario throws up a question mark it seems, I'm happy to apply that rule as it will again cut out the slabbering, and players will eventually concentrate on tackling the BALL not the man and when a free is given, walk away when the whistle is blown, regardless of whether they think its not
I wonder what would drive a change to that rule. It's up to the kicking team, do you want to take the guaranteed 1 point as they slabbered or do you want to take the trickier shot worth 2 points? That does seem fine. I wonder why they are tinkering with that decision at this late stage as I can't see any drawback to it
Read Andy McEntee article in the Irish news (think yesterday's paper as I read it online) he makes really good points, a team of micd up officials will struggle to get the rules right and we are expecting club referees to get it right? and they will make mistakes, lots of them, what will make things worse at club level is that any dissent will then get the ball moved 50m, its far too excessive.
MR2 is any talk to the ref classed as 'dissent' I see refs talk to players during a game and you hear players saying after a free 'ah no you got that wrong' is that going to get the ball moved 50m?
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 09:26:47 AMRead Andy McEntee article in the Irish news (think yesterday's paper as I read it online) he makes really good points, a team of micd up officials will struggle to get the rules right and we are expecting club referees to get it right? and they will make mistakes, lots of them, what will make things worse at club level is that any dissent will then get the ball moved 50m, its far too excessive.
MR2 is any talk to the ref classed as 'dissent' I see refs talk to players during a game and you hear players saying after a free 'ah no you got that wrong' is that going to get the ball moved 50m?
Great point. What if a player turns and says ' awh come on now i hardly touched him'. Is something like that deemed as descent?
Probably depends on the ref id say
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 09:26:47 AMRead Andy McEntee article in the Irish news (think yesterday's paper as I read it online) he makes really good points, a team of micd up officials will struggle to get the rules right and we are expecting club referees to get it right? and they will make mistakes, lots of them, what will make things worse at club level is that any dissent will then get the ball moved 50m, its far too excessive.
MR2 is any talk to the ref classed as 'dissent' I see refs talk to players during a game and you hear players saying after a free 'ah no you got that wrong' is that going to get the ball moved 50m?
I think that's going to be an issue too. Some referees will apply the rules by the book and games will have the ball continually moved forward and the end goal to make the game faster is completely compromised, others will take a more common sense approach that this is new to everyone and to show some type of leniency. Will be interesting to see what the directive from Co Boards are to the refs before the leagues start.
Quote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 09:44:39 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 09:26:47 AMRead Andy McEntee article in the Irish news (think yesterday's paper as I read it online) he makes really good points, a team of micd up officials will struggle to get the rules right and we are expecting club referees to get it right? and they will make mistakes, lots of them, what will make things worse at club level is that any dissent will then get the ball moved 50m, its far too excessive.
MR2 is any talk to the ref classed as 'dissent' I see refs talk to players during a game and you hear players saying after a free 'ah no you got that wrong' is that going to get the ball moved 50m?
I think that's going to be an issue too. Some referees will apply the rules by the book and games will have the ball continually moved forward and the end goal to make the game faster is completely compromised, others will take a more common sense approach that this is new to everyone and to show some type of leniency. Will be interesting to see what the directive from Co Boards are to the refs before the leagues start.
No ref should have to take abuse or bad language so that's clear cut - if it's "ah ref I hardly touched him" you'd expect the ref to just tell them the free is awarded and move on. If the ref overly engages with a player then it gives carte blanche to say anything. When has an appeal from a player ever overturned a refs decision?! As MR says, eventually the slobbering will stop.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2025, 09:51:04 AMQuote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 09:44:39 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 09:26:47 AMRead Andy McEntee article in the Irish news (think yesterday's paper as I read it online) he makes really good points, a team of micd up officials will struggle to get the rules right and we are expecting club referees to get it right? and they will make mistakes, lots of them, what will make things worse at club level is that any dissent will then get the ball moved 50m, its far too excessive.
MR2 is any talk to the ref classed as 'dissent' I see refs talk to players during a game and you hear players saying after a free 'ah no you got that wrong' is that going to get the ball moved 50m?
I think that's going to be an issue too. Some referees will apply the rules by the book and games will have the ball continually moved forward and the end goal to make the game faster is completely compromised, others will take a more common sense approach that this is new to everyone and to show some type of leniency. Will be interesting to see what the directive from Co Boards are to the refs before the leagues start.
No ref should have to take abuse or bad language so that's clear cut - if it's "ah ref I hardly touched him" you'd expect the ref to just tell them the free is awarded and move on. If the ref overly engages with a player then it gives carte blanche to say anything. When has an appeal from a player ever overturned a refs decision?! As MR says, eventually the slobbering will stop.
Yeah abusing a ref or cursing at him 100% no problem, but asking a ref whats that for or ahh that was never too long. it's hardly worth moving the ball 50m. if some refs let you talk to them but others just move it on regardless then thats gonna cause problems. also the handing the ball back is terrible, you should be allowed to set the ball down, just make the rule if a player is being obstructive then move it on (oh wait, we already have that rule!)
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 09:55:10 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2025, 09:51:04 AMQuote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 09:44:39 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 09:26:47 AMRead Andy McEntee article in the Irish news (think yesterday's paper as I read it online) he makes really good points, a team of micd up officials will struggle to get the rules right and we are expecting club referees to get it right? and they will make mistakes, lots of them, what will make things worse at club level is that any dissent will then get the ball moved 50m, its far too excessive.
MR2 is any talk to the ref classed as 'dissent' I see refs talk to players during a game and you hear players saying after a free 'ah no you got that wrong' is that going to get the ball moved 50m?
I think that's going to be an issue too. Some referees will apply the rules by the book and games will have the ball continually moved forward and the end goal to make the game faster is completely compromised, others will take a more common sense approach that this is new to everyone and to show some type of leniency. Will be interesting to see what the directive from Co Boards are to the refs before the leagues start.
No ref should have to take abuse or bad language so that's clear cut - if it's "ah ref I hardly touched him" you'd expect the ref to just tell them the free is awarded and move on. If the ref overly engages with a player then it gives carte blanche to say anything. When has an appeal from a player ever overturned a refs decision?! As MR says, eventually the slobbering will stop.
Yeah abusing a ref or cursing at him 100% no problem, but asking a ref whats that for or ahh that was never too long. it's hardly worth moving the ball 50m. if some refs let you talk to them but others just move it on regardless then thats gonna cause problems. also the handing the ball back is terrible, you should be allowed to set the ball down, just make the rule if a player is being obstructive then move it on (oh wait, we already have that rule!)
Agree with that. It will depend what form MR is in at time!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2025, 09:51:04 AMQuote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 09:44:39 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 09:26:47 AMRead Andy McEntee article in the Irish news (think yesterday's paper as I read it online) he makes really good points, a team of micd up officials will struggle to get the rules right and we are expecting club referees to get it right? and they will make mistakes, lots of them, what will make things worse at club level is that any dissent will then get the ball moved 50m, its far too excessive.
MR2 is any talk to the ref classed as 'dissent' I see refs talk to players during a game and you hear players saying after a free 'ah no you got that wrong' is that going to get the ball moved 50m?
I think that's going to be an issue too. Some referees will apply the rules by the book and games will have the ball continually moved forward and the end goal to make the game faster is completely compromised, others will take a more common sense approach that this is new to everyone and to show some type of leniency. Will be interesting to see what the directive from Co Boards are to the refs before the leagues start.
No ref should have to take abuse or bad language so that's clear cut - if it's "ah ref I hardly touched him" you'd expect the ref to just tell them the free is awarded and move on. If the ref overly engages with a player then it gives carte blanche to say anything. When has an appeal from a player ever overturned a refs decision?! As MR says, eventually the slobbering will stop.
Q. I am not the team captain, or the team nominated deputy, but I don't know why the referee gave a free against me – surely, I can ask them why did they make that decision?
A. If you do, you will concede a free kick, and the ball will be advanced 50m. The team captain, or a nominated deputy, are the only players on a team that can speak to the referee to seek clarification of a decision made by the referee and they can only do so during a break in play.
The above indicates no interaction at all with ref. The man in middle needs to be respected more 100%.
MR2 genuine question, would you have many players who communicate with you regularly in a respectful manner during the game or would it all be disrespectful?
If a player said " Martin I got the ball there" without raised voice should that represent a 50m move up? Should Martin not be able to say " John you were holding his jersey" end of conversation. If John continues to talk by all means move the free up or is disrespectful in initial conversation move the free up certainly. The best referre's I have found are the ones who communicate, communication is going out the window with the new rule to an extent.
Quote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 10:05:52 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2025, 09:51:04 AMQuote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 09:44:39 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 09:26:47 AMRead Andy McEntee article in the Irish news (think yesterday's paper as I read it online) he makes really good points, a team of micd up officials will struggle to get the rules right and we are expecting club referees to get it right? and they will make mistakes, lots of them, what will make things worse at club level is that any dissent will then get the ball moved 50m, its far too excessive.
MR2 is any talk to the ref classed as 'dissent' I see refs talk to players during a game and you hear players saying after a free 'ah no you got that wrong' is that going to get the ball moved 50m?
I think that's going to be an issue too. Some referees will apply the rules by the book and games will have the ball continually moved forward and the end goal to make the game faster is completely compromised, others will take a more common sense approach that this is new to everyone and to show some type of leniency. Will be interesting to see what the directive from Co Boards are to the refs before the leagues start.
No ref should have to take abuse or bad language so that's clear cut - if it's "ah ref I hardly touched him" you'd expect the ref to just tell them the free is awarded and move on. If the ref overly engages with a player then it gives carte blanche to say anything. When has an appeal from a player ever overturned a refs decision?! As MR says, eventually the slobbering will stop.
Q. I am not the team captain, or the team nominated deputy, but I don't know why the referee gave a free against me – surely, I can ask them why did they make that decision?
A. If you do, you will concede a free kick, and the ball will be advanced 50m. The team captain, or a nominated deputy, are the only players on a team that can speak to the referee to seek clarification of a decision made by the referee and they can only do so during a break in play.
The above indicates no interaction at all with ref. The man in middle needs to be respected more 100%.
MR2 genuine question, would you have many players who communicate with you regularly in a respectful manner during the game or would it all be disrespectful?
If a player said " Martin I got the ball there" without raised voice should that represent a 50m move up? Should Martin not be able to say " John you were holding his jersey" end of conversation. If John continues to talk by all means move the free up or is disrespectful in initial conversation move the free up certainly. The best referre's I have found are the ones who communicate, communication is going out the window with the new rule to an extent.
this is my point, by far the best referees do talk to players, most players know when they overstep the mark by going on about it. The best refs will tell them what it's for no bother.
To be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 10:42:12 AMTo be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Surely if a player does that the ball will be moved forward MR2?
Ball has to be handed back directly to the player or has that been changed?
Quote from: Taylor on January 08, 2025, 11:14:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 10:42:12 AMTo be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Surely if a player does that the ball will be moved forward MR2?
Ball has to be handed back directly to the player or has that been changed?
It does, but I've a feeling most refs won't have any issues with it being set down quickly and move away from play, not sure how practical that will be as the ball could be anywhere after a free is given
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 11:20:37 AMQuote from: Taylor on January 08, 2025, 11:14:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 10:42:12 AMTo be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Surely if a player does that the ball will be moved forward MR2?
Ball has to be handed back directly to the player or has that been changed?
It does, but I've a feeling most refs won't have any issues with it being set down quickly and move away from play, not sure how practical that will be as the ball could be anywhere after a free is given
yeah exactly, if the ball had been kicked and ref was just blowing for over carrying for example, player who received the pass 25m away has to run back to where it was kicked and hand it to the taker? just all seems very unworkable
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 11:20:37 AMQuote from: Taylor on January 08, 2025, 11:14:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 10:42:12 AMTo be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Surely if a player does that the ball will be moved forward MR2?
Ball has to be handed back directly to the player or has that been changed?
It does, but I've a feeling most refs won't have any issues with it being set down quickly and move away from play, not sure how practical that will be as the ball could be anywhere after a free is given
Which is the way it should be IMO, but why is it not in the rules that way then? Why complicate things by making them ' hand it back'? Deliberate obstruction or slowing down the play, then absolutely move it forward but the rule as written seems OTT
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 11:27:27 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 11:20:37 AMQuote from: Taylor on January 08, 2025, 11:14:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 10:42:12 AMTo be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Surely if a player does that the ball will be moved forward MR2?
Ball has to be handed back directly to the player or has that been changed?
It does, but I've a feeling most refs won't have any issues with it being set down quickly and move away from play, not sure how practical that will be as the ball could be anywhere after a free is given
yeah exactly, if the ball had been kicked and ref was just blowing for over carrying for example, player who received the pass 25m away has to run back to where it was kicked and hand it to the taker? just all seems very unworkable
They have to hand it to the closest player so the lad 25m away hands it to the closest player and they then kick the ball 25m to where the original free took place which doesn't really speed the game up.
Quote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 11:33:22 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 11:27:27 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 11:20:37 AMQuote from: Taylor on January 08, 2025, 11:14:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 10:42:12 AMTo be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Surely if a player does that the ball will be moved forward MR2?
Ball has to be handed back directly to the player or has that been changed?
It does, but I've a feeling most refs won't have any issues with it being set down quickly and move away from play, not sure how practical that will be as the ball could be anywhere after a free is given
yeah exactly, if the ball had been kicked and ref was just blowing for over carrying for example, player who received the pass 25m away has to run back to where it was kicked and hand it to the taker? just all seems very unworkable
They have to hand it to the closest player so the lad 25m away hands it to the closest player and they then kick the ball 25m to where the original free took place which doesn't really speed the game up.
What if the ball is over the fence, or at the corner flag and near no one? Common sense has to be applied ;D
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on January 08, 2025, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 11:20:37 AMQuote from: Taylor on January 08, 2025, 11:14:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 10:42:12 AMTo be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Surely if a player does that the ball will be moved forward MR2?
Ball has to be handed back directly to the player or has that been changed?
It does, but I've a feeling most refs won't have any issues with it being set down quickly and move away from play, not sure how practical that will be as the ball could be anywhere after a free is given
Which is the way it should be IMO, but why is it not in the rules that way then? Why complicate things by making them ' hand it back'? Deliberate obstruction or slowing down the play, then absolutely move it forward but the rule as written seems OTT
Would agree a player if they are blown for overcarrying will be frustrated, but that could be at themselves, the ref or team mates for not giving them the required level of support. If the player is mild mannered and used to setting the ball down and moving on the shift to actually having to hand the ball back is going to be difficult.
Quote from: statto on January 08, 2025, 11:33:22 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 08, 2025, 11:27:27 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 11:20:37 AMQuote from: Taylor on January 08, 2025, 11:14:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 10:42:12 AMTo be fair, I'm fairly tolerant, but every ref is different with regards to how people speak to them. So take that 'excuse' away from him altogether and set the ball down and move on...
Think as ex players/supporters/managers and so on most ref's understand that if a player 'asks' why the free was given the ref will explain, either verbally or demonstrate by actions what the free was given for, its the second or third time when questioning the reason that is a pain in the arse and that would or should be the reason why its brought forward.
The only game I have done this year I warned a lad 2 times and said that the next time he gives off I'll be moving the ball forward. This is a bedding in period for everyone, the players and management will make as many mistakes than the ref.
And I suppose the mood of the ref will determine things to, they aint robots ;D
I'm fairly vocal in my games, and usually right on top of play so generally speech playing with the players, saying 'all good' 'play on' 'no foul, get up' and so on.
It'll be the cut and thrust of championship when things will be really on the line that will be the most difficult, regardless of refs being mic'd up and plenty of officials at hand
Surely if a player does that the ball will be moved forward MR2?
Ball has to be handed back directly to the player or has that been changed?
It does, but I've a feeling most refs won't have any issues with it being set down quickly and move away from play, not sure how practical that will be as the ball could be anywhere after a free is given
yeah exactly, if the ball had been kicked and ref was just blowing for over carrying for example, player who received the pass 25m away has to run back to where it was kicked and hand it to the taker? just all seems very unworkable
They have to hand it to the closest player so the lad 25m away hands it to the closest player and they then kick the ball 25m to where the original free took place which doesn't really speed the game up.
apologies, youre right my bad, forgot all about that lol.
I feel I'm going to have to say 'don't be a dick' a lot more often this year!
Of course I'm whispering that into myself, players can be very sensitive 8)
Christ lads you are getting so dragged down by the minutiae, this rule is more simple than you think. There's some change for the referee and all other participants which will take a bit of time to bed in, but it'll be relatively short and everyone will learn soon enough. Now some of the other "enhancements" might take a bit longer ...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 11:44:02 AMI feel I'm going to have to say 'don't be a dick' a lot more often this year!
Of course I'm whispering that into myself, players can be very sensitive 8)
I recall as my frustration grew and it was clear we were losing an underage final a referee said to me "don't make a bad day worse." Here I am 25 years later and I can't count the amount of times I've repeated that line to myself when I could feel the frustration growing late on in a game!
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2025/0106/1489317-i-really-feel-for-referees-mcentee-wary-of-rules/?
I did one of the games and the keeper thing is going to be one of the bollox's to make sure you get right.
Breaking a ball down is not passing to the keeper but a player could 'palm' to a keeper and it's a free or not?
No clarity yet on a few other things brought up
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 06:55:17 PMI did one of the games and the keeper thing is going to be one of the bollox's to make sure you get right.
Breaking a ball down is not passing to the keeper but a player could 'palm' to a keeper and it's a free or not?
No clarity yet on a few other things brought up
The rule does not say "pass", it says "the goalkeeper may not receive the ball from a teammate....."
So I presume the decision point is if the ref decides it was played deliberately to the keeper it'll be a foul.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 08, 2025, 08:31:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2025, 06:55:17 PMI did one of the games and the keeper thing is going to be one of the bollox's to make sure you get right.
Breaking a ball down is not passing to the keeper but a player could 'palm' to a keeper and it's a free or not?
No clarity yet on a few other things brought up
The rule does not say "pass", it says "the goalkeeper may not receive the ball from a teammate....."
So I presume the decision point is if the ref decides it was played deliberately to the keeper it'll be a foul.
It's the interpretation by all refs in our old rules which still cause concern how will that go this season!
As the NFL proceeds does anyone think there might be a decision to leave the old rules in for Club competitions?
The refs are being set up to fail, it's gonna be a shit show
Too many changes & too many variables for club refs to implement in one go !
I'm not entirely sure we will see a move away from defence football
Quote from: tiempo on January 08, 2025, 09:53:27 PMThe refs are being set up to fail, it's gonna be a shit show
Yes, on a county level with mic'd up linesmen, umpires etc I agree wholeheartedly. For club refs who arrive by themselves, christ, god love them
People so afraid of change-it may be sh*t but it's familiar
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2025, 09:24:07 PMAs the NFL proceeds does anyone think there might be a decision to leave the old rules in for Club competitions?
I actually think it'll be more a case after a few rounds of fixtures for clubs they might try go back to old rules for the sake of referees
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 09, 2025, 07:08:01 AMQuote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2025, 09:24:07 PMAs the NFL proceeds does anyone think there might be a decision to leave the old rules in for Club competitions?
I actually think it'll be more a case after a few rounds of fixtures for clubs they might try go back to old rules for the sake of referees
Clubs should be in a position after a number of challenge games to see where we are on this. It dilutes the competition if you are playing a number of games with certain rules then decide after 3/4 games that going to revert back to old rules.
Quote from: Delgany 2nds on January 08, 2025, 10:02:36 PMToo many changes & too many variables for club refs to implement in one go !
I'm not entirely sure we will see a move away from defence football
I think any team will be saying to themselves will we leave 3 v 3 up front and decide it's not worth the risk.
Teams can still defend with uo to 11 players and I think they'll be working on that over this time of year.
I don't see it being changed tbh, I think they'll let it go for the year and review it, I'd say most competent referees will do ok and will generally get most things right, like they would in most games, but at the minute, they really need to finalise the query's that have been flagged up and nail it before we get up and running, the 3v3 in defence isn't the biggy for me, I really think that will look after itself as the consequences mean a score, the talk back will result in a score, the obstruction for a free will result in a score, they will be addressed by managers very early on.
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 08:35:03 AMQuote from: Delgany 2nds on January 08, 2025, 10:02:36 PMToo many changes & too many variables for club refs to implement in one go !
I'm not entirely sure we will see a move away from defence football
I think any team will be saying to themselves will we leave 3 v 3 up front and decide it's not worth the risk.
Teams can still defend with uo to 11 players and I think they'll be working on that over this time of year.
Teams will certainly be looking at how their defensive structure looks in the new world. The kickout rule will help as teams can get the ball moving straight away. Teams with a good kicking game will be able to create opportunities before the opposition gets a set defence of 11 back.
Quote from: statto on January 09, 2025, 08:50:02 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 08:35:03 AMQuote from: Delgany 2nds on January 08, 2025, 10:02:36 PMToo many changes & too many variables for club refs to implement in one go !
I'm not entirely sure we will see a move away from defence football
I think any team will be saying to themselves will we leave 3 v 3 up front and decide it's not worth the risk.
Teams can still defend with uo to 11 players and I think they'll be working on that over this time of year.
Teams will certainly be looking at how their defensive structure looks in the new world. The kickout rule will help as teams can get the ball moving straight away. Teams with a good kicking game will be able to create opportunities before the opposition gets a set defence of 11 back.
Cant wait for those blizzard days when the wind is blowing a gale down one end of the pitch and the keeper can't kick the ball ten yards never mind out past the 40m arc
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2025, 11:31:26 AMQuote from: statto on January 09, 2025, 08:50:02 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 08:35:03 AMQuote from: Delgany 2nds on January 08, 2025, 10:02:36 PMToo many changes & too many variables for club refs to implement in one go !
I'm not entirely sure we will see a move away from defence football
I think any team will be saying to themselves will we leave 3 v 3 up front and decide it's not worth the risk.
Teams can still defend with uo to 11 players and I think they'll be working on that over this time of year.
Teams will certainly be looking at how their defensive structure looks in the new world. The kickout rule will help as teams can get the ball moving straight away. Teams with a good kicking game will be able to create opportunities before the opposition gets a set defence of 11 back.
Cant wait for those blizzard days when the wind is blowing a gale down one end of the pitch and the keeper can't kick the ball ten yards never mind out past the 40m arc
To be fair the blizzard days the games ruined as a spectacle regardless.
Is it a free in from ....where?
Or a hop ball on the 20 if kick out doesn't reach the arc??
Quote from: statto on January 09, 2025, 11:34:37 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2025, 11:31:26 AMQuote from: statto on January 09, 2025, 08:50:02 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 08:35:03 AMQuote from: Delgany 2nds on January 08, 2025, 10:02:36 PMToo many changes & too many variables for club refs to implement in one go !
I'm not entirely sure we will see a move away from defence football
I think any team will be saying to themselves will we leave 3 v 3 up front and decide it's not worth the risk.
Teams can still defend with uo to 11 players and I think they'll be working on that over this time of year.
Teams will certainly be looking at how their defensive structure looks in the new world. The kickout rule will help as teams can get the ball moving straight away. Teams with a good kicking game will be able to create opportunities before the opposition gets a set defence of 11 back.
Cant wait for those blizzard days when the wind is blowing a gale down one end of the pitch and the keeper can't kick the ball ten yards never mind out past the 40m arc
To be fair the blizzard days the games ruined as a spectacle regardless.
So we should just go home and wait for the sunny days to play?
Quote from: Rossfan on January 09, 2025, 11:36:34 AMIs it a free in from ....where?
Or a hop ball on the 20 if kick out doesn't reach the arc??
Depends on the ref
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2025, 11:31:26 AMQuote from: statto on January 09, 2025, 08:50:02 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 08:35:03 AMQuote from: Delgany 2nds on January 08, 2025, 10:02:36 PMToo many changes & too many variables for club refs to implement in one go !
I'm not entirely sure we will see a move away from defence football
I think any team will be saying to themselves will we leave 3 v 3 up front and decide it's not worth the risk.
Teams can still defend with uo to 11 players and I think they'll be working on that over this time of year.
Teams will certainly be looking at how their defensive structure looks in the new world. The kickout rule will help as teams can get the ball moving straight away. Teams with a good kicking game will be able to create opportunities before the opposition gets a set defence of 11 back.
Cant wait for those blizzard days when the wind is blowing a gale down one end of the pitch and the keeper can't kick the ball ten yards never mind out past the 40m arc
Will be interesting to see the tactical take on this from managers too, traditionally teams will slow the clock down etc but that only encourages the high press from the opposition and the keeper will need to get it out of the 40m arc or concede a free. The keeper depending on his length of kick out might be better getting the ball away as quick as they can and make the outfield players more accountable for managing possession out the field.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2025, 11:39:18 AMQuote from: statto on January 09, 2025, 11:34:37 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2025, 11:31:26 AMQuote from: statto on January 09, 2025, 08:50:02 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 09, 2025, 08:35:03 AMQuote from: Delgany 2nds on January 08, 2025, 10:02:36 PMToo many changes & too many variables for club refs to implement in one go !
I'm not entirely sure we will see a move away from defence football
I think any team will be saying to themselves will we leave 3 v 3 up front and decide it's not worth the risk.
Teams can still defend with uo to 11 players and I think they'll be working on that over this time of year.
Teams will certainly be looking at how their defensive structure looks in the new world. The kickout rule will help as teams can get the ball moving straight away. Teams with a good kicking game will be able to create opportunities before the opposition gets a set defence of 11 back.
Cant wait for those blizzard days when the wind is blowing a gale down one end of the pitch and the keeper can't kick the ball ten yards never mind out past the 40m arc
To be fair the blizzard days the games ruined as a spectacle regardless.
So we should just go home and wait for the sunny days to play?
Yes that is exactly what I said ::). I am saying that in a blizzard football is hard to watch regardless if it is played under the new or old rules.
Clare manager Peter Keane.
"It is a new game, I don't think there is any other way of describing it," Keane told Clare FM.
"Even though there are seven or eight rule changes, there are somewhere in the mid-40s of different actual rule changes to facilitate them. I think there are too many changes, to be honest. I think we've made a new game out of it. I think we've done too much, too fast. But we are stuck with them now, so we will only have to get on with them.
"The general consensus is that it did need something radical. Again, I am not so sure about the word radical, whether it was to be required. There were still plenty of good games.
"I saw Dublin-Galway last year, a very good game. Galway-Donegal in the All-Ireland semi-final was certainly no bad game. I saw plenty of club games in Kerry this year and there was a lot of good football played. It is hard to say there was a lot of change required."
"This thing of three up, people are just assuming there will only be three guys marking them and that there will be acres of ground there. I am not so sure it will be left as simple as that. Coaches won't leave three defenders isolated against three forwards."
"I like the idea of two guys in for the throw-in because I think there was a lot of hoofing and shuffling and rooting and tearing went on. There was a lot of fouls going on, fouls that were probably being left go, so I don't think that is a bad move."
"I'd like to play an attractive game, if you can," he continued. "It depends on your raw materials. If you've good forwards, you want to create space for them and you want them to develop as the game goes on. But if you don't have the forwards, then you have got to come up with something else.
"By and large, most managers don't overly worry about a spectacle, but at the same time, we do get involved because we love the game and you are anxious to see quality players show their skills."
Interesting clip going around from a challenge match last week between Derry and Cavan. Cavan got a goal after a player, rather than perform "solo and go" instead "went and then soloed".
Ref apparently didn't have a clue but subsequently the FRC have clarified that this is legal, and the player can take the usual four steps before a solo as part of "solo and go" rather than have to take a solo in the style of a rugby "tap and go".
Making it up as they go along.
Quote from: gallsman on January 23, 2025, 10:31:05 AMInteresting clip going around from a challenge match last week between Cork and Cavan. Cavan got a goal after a player, rather than perform "solo and go" instead "went and then soloed".
Ref apparently didn't have a clue but subsequently the FRC have clarified that this is legal, and the player can take the usual four steps before a solo as part of "solo and go" rather than have to take a solo in the style of a rugby "tap and go".
Making it up as they go along.
Will defintely speed things up rather than the rugby'tap and go'.
Good to see this clarified but pity it comes to this a few days out from the start of league.
There'll definately be issues with the new rules.
Quote from: gallsman on January 23, 2025, 10:31:05 AMInteresting clip going around from a challenge match last week between Cork and Cavan. Cavan got a goal after a player, rather than perform "solo and go" instead "went and then soloed".
Ref apparently didn't have a clue but subsequently the FRC have clarified that this is legal, and the player can take the usual four steps before a solo as part of "solo and go" rather than have to take a solo in the style of a rugby "tap and go".
Making it up as they go along.
"Previously, a player could not take a free without the referee's permission. Now however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m. A solo & go is not permitted inside the opponent's 20m
line. Any player can avail of the solo & go, it is not confined to the player who was fouled. However, the solo
& go must be done instantly and in either a forwards or sideways direction."
Clear as mud.
Are the four steps before the solo actually four steps though? Or the 6-10 steps players are habitually allowed in open play. Can the player be tackled in the four steps before he takes his solo.
Quote from: gallsman on January 23, 2025, 10:39:01 AMAre the four steps before the solo actually four steps though? Or the 6-10 steps players are habitually allowed in open play. Can the player be tackled in the four steps before he takes his solo.
Cannot be challenged for 4 metres. How that will be measured I don't know.
Quote from: gallsman on January 23, 2025, 10:39:01 AMAre the four steps before the solo actually four steps though? Or the 6-10 steps players are habitually allowed in open play. Can the player be tackled in the four steps before he takes his solo.
I'd say for 4 metres.
Nobody will get to them by 4 metres anyway.
Can they if the solo and go/go and solo has to be done within 4m of the point of the foul, can the player walk 4m from the point of the foul and then go another 4m before actually soloing the ball?
It may seem like nonsense to be arguing but the point is that this is one of the rules that almost nobody had a problem with, figuring it could be a simply implemented change that would speed up the game and give options to the attacking player. Instead it too is a convoluted mess.
Not only is there a storm coming , there's a shitstorm coming as well.
These new rules are going to be a disaster.
Latest thing I read was about GK and outfield player putting on and taking off jerseys during play to get around the keeper rules. Like wtf?
Anyone remember Joey Tribbiani's game show? This is what these new rules remind me of. Points for answers answered backwards, holding your breath bonuses, and hopping bonuses and such like. Absolute nonsense.
Club match officials in particular are in for a torrid time.
Quote from: gallsman on January 23, 2025, 11:05:51 AMCan they if the solo and go/go and solo has to be done within 4m of the point of the foul, can the player walk 4m from the point of the foul and then go another 4m before actually soloing the ball?
It may seem like nonsense to be arguing but the point is that this is one of the rules that almost nobody had a problem with, figuring it could be a simply implemented change that would speed up the game and give options to the attacking player. Instead it too is a convoluted mess.
I think speed will be the issue rather than distance.
To have the advantage, you get up 'go and solo' and play on. No point walking.
All about speed.
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 11:09:07 AMNot only is there a storm coming , there's a shitstorm coming as well.
These new rules are going to be a disaster.
Latest thing I read was about GK and outfield player putting on and taking off jerseys during play to get around the keeper rules. Like wtf?
Anyone remember Joey Tribbiani's game show? This is what these new rules remind me of. Points for answers answered backwards, holding your breath bonuses, and hopping bonuses and such like. Absolute nonsense.
Club match officials in particular are in for a torrid time.
100% agree, a Pandora's box of shit conceived by basketball fans
Quote from: gallsman on January 23, 2025, 11:05:51 AMCan they if the solo and go/go and solo has to be done within 4m of the point of the foul, can the player walk 4m from the point of the foul and then go another 4m before actually soloing the ball?
It may seem like nonsense to be arguing but the point is that this is one of the rules that almost nobody had a problem with, figuring it could be a simply implemented change that would speed up the game and give options to the attacking player. Instead it too is a convoluted mess.
Nah, apparently the players all now how its going to go, as I was reliably informed the other day, be sorted from day one, should be grand ;D
Will any rule be dropped after the first 2 Rounds of NFL?
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 11:09:07 AMNot only is there a storm coming , there's a shitstorm coming as well.
These new rules are going to be a disaster.
Latest thing I read was about GK and outfield player putting on and taking off jerseys during play to get around the keeper rules. Like wtf?
Anyone remember Joey Tribbiani's game show? This is what these new rules remind me of. Points for answers answered backwards, holding your breath bonuses, and hopping bonuses and such like. Absolute nonsense.
Club match officials in particular are in for a torrid time.
Sure who cares about club football lol. Referees missing plenty as is and that's at county level when they have men around them. Hardly going to be much better at club level with 1 man by himself
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 11:09:07 AMNot only is there a storm coming , there's a shitstorm coming as well.
These new rules are going to be a disaster.
Latest thing I read was about GK and outfield player putting on and taking off jerseys during play to get around the keeper rules. Like wtf?
Anyone remember Joey Tribbiani's game show? This is what these new rules remind me of. Points for answers answered backwards, holding your breath bonuses, and hopping bonuses and such like. Absolute nonsense.
Club match officials in particular are in for a torrid time.
And the tooth fairy Austin, what's the latest?
#teamsheets
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 11:09:07 AMNot only is there a storm coming , there's a shitstorm coming as well.
These new rules are going to be a disaster.
Latest thing I read was about GK and outfield player putting on and taking off jerseys during play to get around the keeper rules. Like wtf?
Anyone remember Joey Tribbiani's game show? This is what these new rules remind me of. Points for answers answered backwards, holding your breath bonuses, and hopping bonuses and such like. Absolute nonsense.
Club match officials in particular are in for a torrid time.
Quote from: tiempo on January 23, 2025, 11:19:33 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 11:09:07 AMNot only is there a storm coming , there's a shitstorm coming as well.
These new rules are going to be a disaster.
Latest thing I read was about GK and outfield player putting on and taking off jerseys during play to get around the keeper rules. Like wtf?
Anyone remember Joey Tribbiani's game show? This is what these new rules remind me of. Points for answers answered backwards, holding your breath bonuses, and hopping bonuses and such like. Absolute nonsense.
Club match officials in particular are in for a torrid time.
100% agree, a Pandora's box of shit conceived by basketball fans
Jim Gavin and James Horan are "basketball fans"? Didn't know that. Tell me more.
Or perhaps leave off the hysteria and watch a few rounds of the league and see how it goes.
One 4u (https://youtu.be/b7tBZRFeE1U?si=iTafRpfvjgD4FsqS)
Quote from: JoG2 on January 23, 2025, 06:26:25 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 11:09:07 AMNot only is there a storm coming , there's a shitstorm coming as well.
These new rules are going to be a disaster.
Latest thing I read was about GK and outfield player putting on and taking off jerseys during play to get around the keeper rules. Like wtf?
Anyone remember Joey Tribbiani's game show? This is what these new rules remind me of. Points for answers answered backwards, holding your breath bonuses, and hopping bonuses and such like. Absolute nonsense.
Club match officials in particular are in for a torrid time.
And the tooth fairy Austin, what's the latest?
#teamsheets
His payouts haven't been rising with inflation.
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 06:41:42 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 23, 2025, 06:26:25 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 11:09:07 AMNot only is there a storm coming , there's a shitstorm coming as well.
These new rules are going to be a disaster.
Latest thing I read was about GK and outfield player putting on and taking off jerseys during play to get around the keeper rules. Like wtf?
Anyone remember Joey Tribbiani's game show? This is what these new rules remind me of. Points for answers answered backwards, holding your breath bonuses, and hopping bonuses and such like. Absolute nonsense.
Club match officials in particular are in for a torrid time.
And the tooth fairy Austin, what's the latest?
#teamsheets
His payouts haven't been rising with inflation.
Stagnated years ago the hoor
Quote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2025, 04:03:41 PMWill any rule be dropped after the first 2 Rounds of NFL?
No. As per Jim Gavin on The GAA Social this week
Quote from: Leftmidfield on January 23, 2025, 09:50:40 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2025, 04:03:41 PMWill any rule be dropped after the first 2 Rounds of NFL?
No. As per Jim Gavin on The GAA Social this week
Possible later in the league but unlikely he reckons. The handing the ball back needs to go immediately.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 23, 2025, 10:50:07 PMQuote from: Leftmidfield on January 23, 2025, 09:50:40 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2025, 04:03:41 PMWill any rule be dropped after the first 2 Rounds of NFL?
No. As per Jim Gavin on The GAA Social this week
Possible later in the league but unlikely he reckons. The handing the ball back needs to go immediately.
1,000 % . Stupid bloody rule
I'm surprised they didn't bring in the naughty corner for failing to do that one
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 23, 2025, 11:36:51 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 23, 2025, 10:50:07 PMQuote from: Leftmidfield on January 23, 2025, 09:50:40 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2025, 04:03:41 PMWill any rule be dropped after the first 2 Rounds of NFL?
No. As per Jim Gavin on The GAA Social this week
Possible later in the league but unlikely he reckons. The handing the ball back needs to go immediately.
1,000 % . Stupid bloody rule
I'm surprised they didn't bring in the naughty corner for failing to do that one
Austin, not too late to book a long weekend in the Canaries
1 v 1 for the hop ball to start the game, unnecessary basketball tripe, gross overthink, its not GAA anymore, its Jim Gavins vision for homogeneous football
If that's your only problem with the new rules you have little to worry about.
Anyway there used to be 16 lined up for throw ins up to the 1960s.
The 2 point score is a very unfair level of jeopardy for a team defending a 1 point lead in the dying embers e.g. Errigal point v Crokes that would have won them the game as a 2 pointer, doesn't sit well that teams will lose huge crunch games under those circumstances
Unnecessary basketball-isms
Quote from: tiempo on January 24, 2025, 10:41:39 AMThe 2 point score is a very unfair level of jeopardy for a team defending a 1 point lead in the dying embers e.g. Errigal point v Crokes that would have won them the game as a 2 pointer, doesn't sit well that teams will lose huge crunch games under those circumstances
Unnecessary basketball-isms
Agreed, big wind 2nd half and you're elected. At least in basketball you don't have the elements lol
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 23, 2025, 10:50:07 PMQuote from: Leftmidfield on January 23, 2025, 09:50:40 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2025, 04:03:41 PMWill any rule be dropped after the first 2 Rounds of NFL?
No. As per Jim Gavin on The GAA Social this week
Possible later in the league but unlikely he reckons. The handing the ball back needs to go immediately.
Just set the ball down, shut your mouth and play on which players will have been told from 6 years of age.
Can the GAA commit to keeping the 40m arc long term?
For my own club's astro, like most astros I presume, they can't just paint the 40m arc, they have to relay those entire sections of astro with new pre-painted arc sections.
I guess we'll just keep the old sections in storage just in case.
It's a 1st world problem in gaa terms. My complaints feel a bit like Pee Flynn on the Late Late Show.
Quote from: tiempo on January 24, 2025, 10:41:39 AMThe 2 point score is a very unfair level of jeopardy for a team defending a 1 point lead in the dying embers e.g. Errigal point v Crokes that would have won them the game as a 2 pointer, doesn't sit well that teams will lose huge crunch games under those circumstances
Unnecessary basketball-isms
Not a fan of the two pointer in general, but in your example above, it does provide more excitement for the neutral, does the team play for the draw or do they try to work it to a main shooter to get the one point win?
There is no easy way to lose tight championship games, don't think that has been changed by the new rules. Taking away the penalties has actually made it a better format to decide who is the best team on the day.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 24, 2025, 10:45:19 AMQuote from: tiempo on January 24, 2025, 10:41:39 AMThe 2 point score is a very unfair level of jeopardy for a team defending a 1 point lead in the dying embers e.g. Errigal point v Crokes that would have won them the game as a 2 pointer, doesn't sit well that teams will lose huge crunch games under those circumstances
Unnecessary basketball-isms
Agreed, big wind 2nd half and you're elected. At least in basketball you don't have the elements lol
Should always play with a strong wind in the 2nd half with the new rules.
You'll have 5 mins of extra playing time with 2 pointers plus you'll have the option of a 2 pointer at the end if the score dictates.
Teams will no longer go for goals when 3 points down with a minute to go, will take an easy point if on, and hope to get a 2 pointer.
Same with 4 points down, will try 2 2 pointers.
Quote from: blanketattack on January 24, 2025, 11:01:27 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on January 24, 2025, 10:45:19 AMQuote from: tiempo on January 24, 2025, 10:41:39 AMThe 2 point score is a very unfair level of jeopardy for a team defending a 1 point lead in the dying embers e.g. Errigal point v Crokes that would have won them the game as a 2 pointer, doesn't sit well that teams will lose huge crunch games under those circumstances
Unnecessary basketball-isms
Agreed, big wind 2nd half and you're elected. At least in basketball you don't have the elements lol
Should always play with a strong wind in the 2nd half with the new rules.
You'll have 5 mins of extra playing time with 2 pointers plus you'll have the option of a 2 pointer at the end if the score dictates.
Teams will no longer go for goals when 3 points down with a minute to go, will take an easy point if on, and hope to get a 2 pointer.
Same with 4 points down, will try 2 2 pointers.
Depends though on the teams and level playing at. If you have 5/6 kickers from distance in the team fair enough, but the lower you go down the food chain the less common will be.
With the 3 up rule as well it will be easier for a team to try and engineer a goal when chasing a game, especially if they have a goalkeeper who is competent on the ball and can create overloads.
Quote from: statto on January 24, 2025, 10:53:53 AMQuote from: tiempo on January 24, 2025, 10:41:39 AMThe 2 point score is a very unfair level of jeopardy for a team defending a 1 point lead in the dying embers e.g. Errigal point v Crokes that would have won them the game as a 2 pointer, doesn't sit well that teams will lose huge crunch games under those circumstances
Unnecessary basketball-isms
Not a fan of the two pointer in general, but in your example above, it does provide more excitement for the neutral, does the team play for the draw or do they try to work it to a main shooter to get the one point win?
There is no easy way to lose tight championship games, don't think that has been changed by the new rules. Taking away the penalties has actually made it a better format to decide who is the best team on the day.
Neutral excitement doesn't factor in for me. After a year slogging through pre-season, league, second pre-season, league, champ pre-season, county champ, provincial champ, into the all-Ireland series, the last thing you'd be worried about is neutrals or perceived levels of entertainment. Might as well have a point for a clean catch in MF from a kickout if aesthetics is the name of the game
A team in Tyrone lost a 4 point lead in 3 mins (2 points and a goal) to lose by a point under the current format, for the winning team it was a masterclass in persistence and staying calm under pressure, 2 pointers weren't needed and then of course you open the can of worms was he/wasn't he on the line/behind the line
Quote from: tiempo on January 24, 2025, 11:40:13 AMQuote from: statto on January 24, 2025, 10:53:53 AMQuote from: tiempo on January 24, 2025, 10:41:39 AMThe 2 point score is a very unfair level of jeopardy for a team defending a 1 point lead in the dying embers e.g. Errigal point v Crokes that would have won them the game as a 2 pointer, doesn't sit well that teams will lose huge crunch games under those circumstances
Unnecessary basketball-isms
Not a fan of the two pointer in general, but in your example above, it does provide more excitement for the neutral, does the team play for the draw or do they try to work it to a main shooter to get the one point win?
There is no easy way to lose tight championship games, don't think that has been changed by the new rules. Taking away the penalties has actually made it a better format to decide who is the best team on the day.
Neutral excitement doesn't factor in for me. After a year slogging through pre-season, league, second pre-season, league, champ pre-season, county champ, provincial champ, into the all-Ireland series, the last thing you'd be worried about is neutrals or perceived levels of entertainment. Might as well have a point for a clean catch in MF from a kickout if aesthetics is the name of the game
A team in Tyrone lost a 4 point lead in 3 mins (2 points and a goal) to lose by a point under the current format, for the winning team it was a masterclass in persistence and staying calm under pressure, 2 pointers weren't needed and then of course you open the can of worms was he/wasn't he on the line/behind the line
The reason for the rule changes is that the game had become too pedestrian and the aim of the rule changes is that the sport becomes more watchable and entertaining?
I don't see the difference in if you are 3 up and you lose the game by the opponent scoring 2 x2 pointers or a goal and a point. The rules are the same for both sides and the team leading by 3 would need to review their game management in that scenario.
If you comeback from 4 down in the dying minutes to win in any format your persistence will need applauded. In the scenario being 4 down if someone goes for a two pointer and nails it you would have to commend them for taking it on as if the ball goes wide or short likelyhood is games over?
"Skills people wanted to see, kick-passing, high-fielding, long-range scores, one to one contests, and goals, they're going to see plenty of that over the seven rounds of the National League."
Says Jim G.
Why does he expect loads of kick passing while his group left handpassing untouched???
How many games have you boys watched to be giving the new rules both barrels? 🤔
Quote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2025, 02:46:26 PMHow many games have you boys watched to be giving the new rules both barrels? 🤔
A few but because I'm not a professional I can't talk about them ;D
As said many times this might work with 9 officials, it won't work on a soggy pitch at div 3 club league level. The 1% club run the show
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2025, 02:52:46 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2025, 02:46:26 PMHow many games have you boys watched to be giving the new rules both barrels? 🤔
A few but because I'm not a professional I can't talk about them ;D
As said many times this might work with 9 officials, it won't work on a soggy pitch at div 3 club league level. The 1% club run the show
All rules with the exception of the 3v3 would be grand at club level with one poor hoor reffing and no linesmen?
Yes supporters love to see great skills and scores but equally they love to see intensity, blocks, tackles, argy bargy, tension.
How many people turn up at a game between 2 great rivals to see men getting stuck in to eachother and maybe it will spill over?
It's not all about score fests. Or it wasn't up to now.
In trying to make a new game they may take away a lot of the old game that supporters loved.
Quote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2025, 02:56:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2025, 02:52:46 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2025, 02:46:26 PMHow many games have you boys watched to be giving the new rules both barrels? 🤔
A few but because I'm not a professional I can't talk about them ;D
As said many times this might work with 9 officials, it won't work on a soggy pitch at div 3 club league level. The 1% club run the show
All rules with the exception of the 3v3 would be grand at club level with one poor hoor reffing and no linesmen?
The new call will be, inside the 40 ref! or that's a two pointer ya blind cnut. I've been around games a long time, so many rules at once will not be grand, and there are still some clarifications to be sorted
Conference tomorrow, so will see what's what at that
Anyone know of any place showing the games in the Canary Islands? 8)
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 24, 2025, 03:11:37 PMAnyone know of any place showing the games in the Canary Islands? 8)
;D ;D
It was my first time watching a game under the new rules. Some positives, some I'd wait and see how they transpire but the one I don't get at all is the free brought forward 50m should the offending player not immediately hand the ball gift-wrapped to the fouled one and wish him well with his free kick.
That's the rule whether you get it or not ;D
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2025, 08:06:45 PMIt was my first time watching a game under the new rules. Some positives, some I'd wait and see how they transpire but the one I don't get at all is the free brought forward 50m should the offending player not immediately hand the ball gift-wrapped to the fouled one and wish him well with his free kick.
😁...would be my feelings too. Definite positives, but that 50m is harsh. Don't think Tyrone gave away any, us 2 or 3 I think
We see what way that 50m rule works at the end of a tight all Ireland final. 20m advantage is enough.Ref just guessing the distance the whole time.Still think a 2 pointer from a free, zero skill, a great 2 pointer from play and a free is a fair difference.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 25, 2025, 11:00:19 PMWe see what way that 50m rule works at the end of a tight all Ireland final. 20m advantage is enough.Ref just guiding the distance the whole time.Still think a 2 pointer from a free, zero skill, a great 2 pointer from play and a free is a fair difference.
Yeah good point. How many refs could measure 50m accurately? Even 20m isn't easy to measure
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 25, 2025, 11:00:19 PMWe see what way that 50m rule works at the end of a tight all Ireland final. 20m advantage is enough.Ref just guessing the distance the whole time.Still think a 2 pointer from a free, zero skill, a great 2 pointer from play and a free is a fair difference.
Agree. The other 2 scores in the Armagh game were class, but any average free taker at any level would be nailing Walsh's free last night, especially with the big wind behind ypu.
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 25, 2025, 11:12:23 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on January 25, 2025, 11:00:19 PMWe see what way that 50m rule works at the end of a tight all Ireland final. 20m advantage is enough.Ref just guiding the distance the whole time.Still think a 2 pointer from a free, zero skill, a great 2 pointer from play and a free is a fair difference.
Yeah good point. How many refs could measure 50m accurately? Even 20m isn't easy to measure
It's not difficult. On a big pitch the length is 145 meters max, so from the goals to half way is 72 ish . So gauging where the free should be isn't difficult. You'd have to be stupid not to know where it is with lines on the pitch.
Example free in the square moved 50 meters takes you 5 meters past the 45, free on the 13 takes you up to the 65 and free in the 21 takes you up to their 21 and so
So don't give the 50 meter free away and you'll have no issues
Does anyone know how administering cards work when the attacking team takes a solo and go?
Does the ref give the card at next break or stop the attack to issue card?
Not allowing a pass to a defensive player, the goalkeeper, in the defensive half isn't natural in a team sport. If the 3 back included the keeper you could still have 12 v 11 attacking but defensive team could get reward of a proper 3 v 3 attack if they turnover and attack direct.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 25, 2025, 11:00:19 PMWe see what way that 50m rule works at the end of a tight all Ireland final. 20m advantage is enough.Ref just guessing the distance the whole time.Still think a 2 pointer from a free, zero skill, a great 2 pointer from play and a free is a fair difference.
This is the very instance where the rule will truly work well, as both teams will stringently adhere to it so as not to be penalised. In turn the game will continue to flow instead of a litany of petty squabbles as one team tries to evade the usual WWF moves and get the ball up the field to gain an equaliser.
It's really not a hard rule to adhere too once the habit sets in (that will be in a few weeks tbf, the lack of a trial period is a strange one.) It will only then be notable for how rarely it occurs and our game will be all the better for the reduction in "delay tactics."
I've done a good few sessions on the new rules, but two things I didn't understand last night:
Niall Morgan recovered a bad pass in his own half, but both players were in the opposition half when the ball was played. No free was given so I assume this is allowed? I think for a second, Morgan was indicating to his team mates that he couldn't touch it, then saw there was no one close and lifted it. I could be wrong, but I think he expected a free against. I expected the whistle to go.
Second, David Coldrick stopped the clock/watch for subs, injuries and anything else needed. Why didn't the hooter go at 70mins? I thought the idea was to take injury time and the subjectiveness out of time keeping, so not sure why the game went on to 73:08.
Maybe these are just day one mix ups, but thought I'd check.
Hooter clock stops as well ;)
Ones were saying the Morgan collecting the ball was a free, but haven't really studied the new rules in detail.
Quote from: Walter White on January 26, 2025, 01:23:20 PMI've done a good few sessions on the new rules, but two things I didn't understand last night:
Niall Morgan recovered a bad pass in his own half, but both players were in the opposition half when the ball was played. No free was given so I assume this is allowed? I think for a second, Morgan was indicating to his team mates that he couldn't touch it, then saw there was no one close and lifted it. I could be wrong, but I think he expected a free against. I expected the whistle to go.
Second, David Coldrick stopped the clock/watch for subs, injuries and anything else needed. Why didn't the hooter go at 70mins? I thought the idea was to take injury time and the subjectiveness out of time keeping, so not sure why the game went on to 73:08.
Maybe these are just day one mix ups, but thought I'd check.
On these, was Morgan not just inside the attacking half, well borderline.
The hooter blasted on 70mins did it not,there was a countdown in the crowd?
The keeper can pick up a loose ball, not a direct pass inside his own half which is up to the dotted line in the middle
Paddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
These new rules are also a means by which the refs gain revenge and are gleefully serving it ice cold.
After a long referring life spent being abused and bullied by all and sundry, now the tables have been turned.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
How so?
Mickey's football philosophy was to keep possession at all costs.
This robs the game the man to man duels, e.g. the tricky corner forward against the sticky corner back.
Quote from: Walter White on January 26, 2025, 01:23:20 PMI've done a good few sessions on the new rules, but two things I didn't understand last night:
Niall Morgan recovered a bad pass in his own half, but both players were in the opposition half when the ball was played. No free was given so I assume this is allowed? I think for a second, Morgan was indicating to his team mates that he couldn't touch it, then saw there was no one close and lifted it. I could be wrong, but I think he expected a free against. I expected the whistle to go.
Second, David Coldrick stopped the clock/watch for subs, injuries and anything else needed. Why didn't the hooter go at 70mins? I thought the idea was to take injury time and the subjectiveness out of time keeping, so not sure why the game went on to 73:08.
Maybe these are just day one mix ups, but thought I'd check.
Yes, Morgan should have had a free against him as he collected a pass in his own half from a teammate; that was a miss by the ref.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 26, 2025, 03:55:15 PMQuote from: Walter White on January 26, 2025, 01:23:20 PMI've done a good few sessions on the new rules, but two things I didn't understand last night:
Niall Morgan recovered a bad pass in his own half, but both players were in the opposition half when the ball was played. No free was given so I assume this is allowed? I think for a second, Morgan was indicating to his team mates that he couldn't touch it, then saw there was no one close and lifted it. I could be wrong, but I think he expected a free against. I expected the whistle to go.
Second, David Coldrick stopped the clock/watch for subs, injuries and anything else needed. Why didn't the hooter go at 70mins? I thought the idea was to take injury time and the subjectiveness out of time keeping, so not sure why the game went on to 73:08.
Maybe these are just day one mix ups, but thought I'd check.
Yes, Morgan should have had a free against him as he collected a pass in his own half from a teammate; that was a miss by the ref.
Was Morgan definitely in his own half? The camera was somewhere between the 45 and 65 so it did pan right but it was the only thing I could think of as to why it wasn't a free
Quote from: SaffronSports on January 26, 2025, 05:03:25 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 26, 2025, 03:55:15 PMQuote from: Walter White on January 26, 2025, 01:23:20 PMI've done a good few sessions on the new rules, but two things I didn't understand last night:
Niall Morgan recovered a bad pass in his own half, but both players were in the opposition half when the ball was played. No free was given so I assume this is allowed? I think for a second, Morgan was indicating to his team mates that he couldn't touch it, then saw there was no one close and lifted it. I could be wrong, but I think he expected a free against. I expected the whistle to go.
Second, David Coldrick stopped the clock/watch for subs, injuries and anything else needed. Why didn't the hooter go at 70mins? I thought the idea was to take injury time and the subjectiveness out of time keeping, so not sure why the game went on to 73:08.
Maybe these are just day one mix ups, but thought I'd check.
Yes, Morgan should have had a free against him as he collected a pass in his own half from a teammate; that was a miss by the ref.
Was Morgan definitely in his own half? The camera was somewhere between the 45 and 65 so it did pan right but it was the only thing I could think of as to why it wasn't a free
He was, he picked up the ball between the halfway line and his own 65. As the OP said Morgan knew he couldn't gather it, he was looking for a teammate to do so. But he had no option as one of the 3 Derry players up was next closest
I wonder how long it is before the hurling side of the house start talking about adopting the rules on dissent.
It was a minor shock to see how much more general messing and pointless foolishness went on in the Galway Tipperary game compared to any of the football games.
It really highlighted how "harsh" punishments can immediately remove problem areas from the game.
I'll be gobsmacked if there isn't a hurling review committee in place by the end of the year.
Moving the ball in hurling 13 meters for dissent will generally lead to a score, obstructing a quick puck from a free will also move the ball 13 meters.. Maybe move it to 20 meters for sure? Also the extended advantage would be the one I feel would work better
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 08:51:43 AMMoving the ball in hurling 13 meters for dissent will generally lead to a score, obstructing a quick puck from a free will also move the ball 13 meters.. Maybe move it to 20 meters for sure? Also the extended advantage would be the one I feel would work better
While that's true I think in hurling that teams are far more willing to foul in the opposition's half to slow things down - I'm nearly sure I heard someone talking about where Limerick concede the majority of fouls in the opposition half/outside of "easy" shooting range.
The other reason I think the hurling crowd will be looking for rule changes is how infrequently referees actually do apply these rules in game. The new FRC rules simply cut out the problem at source - instead of having a rule that has a soft punishment that players are willing to break, and that the referee needs to enforce and keep on top of constantly, simply have an adequate punishment (that some call harsh) and players will change their behaviour to remove the problematic behaviour from their game, so that the game flows better without the need for a ref to get involved at all.
Quote from: twohands!!! on January 27, 2025, 08:48:19 AMI wonder how long it is before the hurling side of the house start talking about adopting the rules on dissent.
It was a minor shock to see how much more general messing and pointless foolishness went on in the Galway Tipperary game compared to any of the football games.
It really highlighted how "harsh" punishments can immediately remove problem areas from the game.
I'll be gobsmacked if there isn't a hurling review committee in place by the end of the year.
It doesnt need a review comittee to implement a rule like this. If it works for football then Im sure it will work for hurling. If were going to have a hurling review then lets look at the more glaring problems like throwing and steps.
Quote from: didlyi on January 27, 2025, 09:08:30 AMQuote from: twohands!!! on January 27, 2025, 08:48:19 AMI wonder how long it is before the hurling side of the house start talking about adopting the rules on dissent.
It was a minor shock to see how much more general messing and pointless foolishness went on in the Galway Tipperary game compared to any of the football games.
It really highlighted how "harsh" punishments can immediately remove problem areas from the game.
I'll be gobsmacked if there isn't a hurling review committee in place by the end of the year.
It doesnt need a review comittee to implement a rule like this. If it works for football then Im sure it will work for hurling. If were going to have a hurling review then lets look at the more glaring problems like throwing and steps.
Steps are the same in football and no change was brought up, its up to us (ref's) to be more stringent on the steps, a few scores yesterday were way over the required steps. I'd be generous with steps and admit that but only when they are breaking a tackle or have been slightly impeded.
As for the throw ball its hard (cue F) I'll call it when I see it and no doubt I'll get chapter and verse on the rules but 99% of the refs will do the same, change the ruling on it and it may become easier to manage
Quote from: didlyi on January 27, 2025, 09:08:30 AMQuote from: twohands!!! on January 27, 2025, 08:48:19 AMI wonder how long it is before the hurling side of the house start talking about adopting the rules on dissent.
It was a minor shock to see how much more general messing and pointless foolishness went on in the Galway Tipperary game compared to any of the football games.
It really highlighted how "harsh" punishments can immediately remove problem areas from the game.
I'll be gobsmacked if there isn't a hurling review committee in place by the end of the year.
It doesnt need a review comittee to implement a rule like this. If it works for football then Im sure it will work for hurling. If were going to have a hurling review then lets look at the more glaring problems like throwing and steps.
And spare arm tackling and players fouling the ball when taking frees.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
Why are people so against goalkeepers being more skilfull? Do you guys also hate the likes of Lee Keegan getting forward and scoring in big games? It's the nature of sports. Players develop over time. 20 years ago how many keepers were capable of setting up goals like Reape and Morgan did at the weekend? It's up to the opposition team to find a counter to it like Donegal did against Derry and Roscommon did against Down. It's a risk reward game.
Quote from: thebigfullforward on January 27, 2025, 09:55:51 AMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
Why are people so against goalkeepers being more skilfull? Do you guys also hate the likes of Lee Keegan getting forward and scoring in big games? It's the nature of sports. Players develop over time. 20 years ago how many keepers were capable of setting up goals like Reape and Morgan did at the weekend? It's up to the opposition team to find a counter to it like Donegal did against Derry and Roscommon did against Down. It's a risk reward game.
The point of the rule changes were to stop the keep ball that we've seen over the last couple of years. By letting the keeper be a spare man you've just created the same problem further up the pitch.
I think you'll see more of what happened to the Down keeper yesterday over the league. Teams will learnt to move the ball kicker on turnovers. The Down keeper wasn't at fault either to be fair to him and the goal was well taken. Even most county forwards may not of had a pop at that.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
Maybe if teams pushed up and didn't retreat into the 40m zone then the keeper doesn't become such a threat.
Quote from: DubsforSam on January 27, 2025, 11:00:28 AMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
Maybe if teams pushed up and didn't retreat into the 40m zone then the keeper doesn't become such a threat.
The issue here isn't the rule so much as the culture within GAA management teams for convoluting things, and for pushing the rulebook to create perceived advantages, whether they exist or not, instead of setting a context for sport.
By accident rather than design, Armagh ended up with a goalkeeper rather than a midfielder in goals for 2024.
The effect? Less emphasis on "trick plays" and more emphasis on playing your own position.
So instead of Ethan Rafferty finding space and running between the lines, the likes of Conaty and Grimley did this role instead.
The outcome? Well Armagh won an AI conceding a goal every 5 games or so. Blaine became the third no.1 in a row to win an AI without ever crossing out of his own 45.
The knock on effect? Negligible it seems. The media continue convincing themselves that Niall Morgan is the MVP of the country, whilst GAA management teams up and down the country are still convincing themselves they need to create Niall Morgan clones.
my posts on here have all been against the rules but after the weekend my thoughts:
1v1 throw in, makes no difference so if thats what people want fine, keep it.
the 50m for not handing a ball back is complete madness, seen it in games over the weekend punishment doesnt fit the crime at all, the current rule for this was fine. common sense approach from refs to decide if a player was taking the piss etc.
3v3, most certainly not the silver bullet they think it is, if anything when you weigh up how difficult itll be to police for club games and the headaches it will cause its really not worth it. to create more space they should have reduced the game to 13 a side. if that is the thought for it.
Solo and go is decent, but I think it should maybe have to be declared. seen a few times over the weekend looked like the player had stopped to take a free then when opposition moved just took the solo and go. the rule is good but id like to see it polished up a bit.
the hooter and timing, literally nothing was wrong with what we had. again great for IC where youve plenty of officials, assume its not coming into club
On the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
Silly question maybe. If a team is chasing a goal and get on a break where a goal chance is on could the opposition team pull 1 of the 3 forwards back into their own half and concede a free instead or would the refs let play go ahead? If they give the free at worst you concede 2 points (possibly a goal but at least you had time to get the defence set) or could the attacking team just do a solo and go without the ref stopping play? Seen a few times over the weekend the play was fully stopped though
Quote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
Outside the arc, if the ball touches an opponent after a shot is taken then it is 1 point.
Outside the arc, if a ball strikes a post/crossbar it will be 2 points (I've never actually read this but it's blatantly obvious.)
Quote from: Lucifer on January 27, 2025, 01:24:27 PMOutside the arc, if the ball touches an opponent after a shot is taken then it is 1 point.
Outside the arc, if a ball strikes a post/crossbar it will be 2 points (I've never actually read this but it's blatantly obvious.)
Correct, it can even bounce over the bar and still be 2 points provided its not touched a player inside the 40arc
Quote from: manwithnoplan on January 27, 2025, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
The chances of the ball going over from outside the arc with anything other than the slightest of touches / deflection is incredibly slim... Couldn't see a ref not giving the 2 points... What say the resident ref?
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:32:40 PMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 27, 2025, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
The chances of the ball going over from outside the arc with anything other than the slightest of touches / deflection is incredibly slim... Couldn't see a ref not giving the 2 points... What say the resident ref?
We were told on Sat that any touch inside that zone means it is a one pointer, now common sense would say nah, fully deserves a 2 pointer buy no, bit like the mark if he claims a ball from heaven and it happens to touch a glove before it reaches his hand, no mark, play on.
Again anybody that sees the rule book as black and white would struggle with common sense but 'thems' the rules
I think ditching the pre-league tournaments was a mistake, those 'competitive' games would have offered a lot more practice/learning to players and refs than just the challenge games.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2025, 11:19:27 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 27, 2025, 11:00:28 AMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
Maybe if teams pushed up and didn't retreat into the 40m zone then the keeper doesn't become such a threat.
The issue here isn't the rule so much as the culture within GAA management teams for convoluting things, and for pushing the rulebook to create perceived advantages, whether they exist or not, instead of setting a context for sport.
By accident rather than design, Armagh ended up with a goalkeeper rather than a midfielder in goals for 2024.
The effect? Less emphasis on "trick plays" and more emphasis on playing your own position.
So instead of Ethan Rafferty finding space and running between the lines, the likes of Conaty and Grimley did this role instead.
The outcome? Well Armagh won an AI conceding a goal every 5 games or so. Blaine became the third no.1 in a row to win an AI without ever crossing out of his own 45.
The knock on effect? Negligible it seems. The media continue convincing themselves that Niall Morgan is the MVP of the country, whilst GAA management teams up and down the country are still convincing themselves they need to create Niall Morgan clones.
Niall Morgan pinging points or brilliant passes into the forward line isn't a problem (unless you happen to support the team playing Tyrone) if you are a neutral, (if that's possible when Tyrone play :D ) he is a class player to watch. And Blaine definitely came up the field as a pivot a fair bit last year, although not in the final due to a knee injury.
I was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:32:40 PMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 27, 2025, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
The chances of the ball going over from outside the arc with anything other than the slightest of touches / deflection is incredibly slim... Couldn't see a ref not giving the 2 points... What say the resident ref?
I think the most likely way this is to happen is a goalkeeper gets a finger / hand to a shot, and palms it over the bar. In that case it would be 1 point, even if shot from outside the arc
Quote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 27, 2025, 04:18:48 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:32:40 PMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 27, 2025, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
The chances of the ball going over from outside the arc with anything other than the slightest of touches / deflection is incredibly slim... Couldn't see a ref not giving the 2 points... What say the resident ref?
I think the most likely way this is to happen is a goalkeeper gets a finger / hand to a shot, and palms it over the bar. In that case it would be 1 point, even if shot from outside the arc
Most likely is right
Quote from: manwithnoplan on January 27, 2025, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
So, a kick outside the arc that doesn't reach the goal , but bounces 10 yards out, before going over the bar is worth 2 points?
Yet a kick outside the arc that a defender gets a slight block on but still goes over the bar , is only worth 1 point?
That is bonkers
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 27, 2025, 06:02:00 PMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 27, 2025, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
So, a kick outside the arc that doesn't reach the goal , but bounces 10 yards out, before going over the bar is worth 2 points?
Yet a kick outside the arc that a defender gets a slight block on but still goes over the bar , is only worth 1 point?
That is bonkers
That's bonkers? The fact that games has had so many rule changes in so few years isn't?
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 27, 2025, 06:02:00 PMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 27, 2025, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
So, a kick outside the arc that doesn't reach the goal , but bounces 10 yards out, before going over the bar is worth 2 points?
Yet a kick outside the arc that a defender gets a slight block on but still goes over the bar , is only worth 1 point?
That is bonkers
It's all bonkers.
But in fairness if you're letting the ball bounce over the bar you deserve it
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 27, 2025, 06:23:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 27, 2025, 06:02:00 PMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 27, 2025, 01:21:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2025, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on January 27, 2025, 12:57:17 PMOn the two pointer if it deflects over it's one point. If kicked outside arc and goes over via crossbar is it one or two points? Heared mixed on this
What do you mean 'deflects'? If a player shoots and it brushes a player's hand or body in an attempt to block and goes over, or it's kicked, hits, the crossbar and goes over, how can it not be a 2 pointer?
If a deflection means someone gets a hit of the ball before it bounces and this takes the ball over, can only be a 1 pointer
Pitches will be lined with a new arc starting on the 20m line and extending 40m out from goal. A ball cleanly kicked from play or a free over the bar from on or outside this arc, and without touching another player on either team (it may bounce over) is worth two points. Referees will signal the score with two hands in the air and the score umpires will wave an orange flag for the two-point score. The score is allowed as long as the standing foot of the kicker is placed on or before the 40m arc. A '45' is worth one-point.
So, a kick outside the arc that doesn't reach the goal , but bounces 10 yards out, before going over the bar is worth 2 points?
Yet a kick outside the arc that a defender gets a slight block on but still goes over the bar , is only worth 1 point?
That is bonkers
It's all bonkers.
But in fairness if you're letting the ball bounce over the bar you deserve it
Well that's a separate issue
But in this case, kicks are being rewarded more for NOT reaching the goal , than those that do.
Have been a sceptic from the start but after first weekend this is my take.
1v1 throw in. Didnt have a problem with 2v 2 and be interesting to see how the other midfielder is policed in club game but for county worked well, easy to officiate, no problem with it.
Keeper not getting ball in own half. Brilliant. Best change of the lot as stops the short one two kick outs and keep ball.
Keeper allowed ball in other half. Just don't know who came up with this given that they wanted a faster game with more contests! There is not an obvious solution other than a keeper being a keeper which surely those wanting to wind the clock back 30 years want.
3v3 inside half. The idea of holding positions is good but there still won't be too much kicking as possession is king unless they change the keeper 12 v 11 thing in which case it will be harder to keep the ball at times.
The arcs. With keeper not getting ball back there would be more long kickouts anyway and too many things for refs to police at club games with kickout infringements and 2 point scores. I dont mind a 2 point score from play though.....but not a free.
Solo and go is OK as well and easy at club level. Though most instances saw that player handpass defeating the purpose of more kicking. With the new 3v3 and discipline laws a good kick pass would be on immediately.
50metre penalty is a big cultural change but I get that it will soon stop players acting the maggot. Maybe could be changed a bit so as you don't have to hand the ball over!
Timing and hooter all good.
The biggest thing though is that when the national league is over and club football kicks into action it has to be the same game.
E.g.if you can't police 3v3 on your own at a club game it shouldn't be a rule. How could we watch one game at county level and then expect the same rules when playing club but they can't be applied properly? That would lead to so many problems and total frustration.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2025, 11:19:27 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 27, 2025, 11:00:28 AMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
Maybe if teams pushed up and didn't retreat into the 40m zone then the keeper doesn't become such a threat.
The issue here isn't the rule so much as the culture within GAA management teams for convoluting things, and for pushing the rulebook to create perceived advantages, whether they exist or not, instead of setting a context for sport.
By accident rather than design, Armagh ended up with a goalkeeper rather than a midfielder in goals for 2024.
The effect? Less emphasis on "trick plays" and more emphasis on playing your own position.
So instead of Ethan Rafferty finding space and running between the lines, the likes of Conaty and Grimley did this role instead.
The outcome? Well Armagh won an AI conceding a goal every 5 games or so. Blaine became the third no.1 in a row to win an AI without ever crossing out of his own 45.
The knock on effect? Negligible it seems. The media continue convincing themselves that Niall Morgan is the MVP of the country, whilst GAA management teams up and down the country are still convincing themselves they need to create Niall Morgan clones.
This is one of the most interesting posts on this topic. People watch Morgan etc and only see what he brings to the game. He may kick 1 or 2 points but 20 attacks may be slowed down to a walk also. His role changes the dynamic of the team.
This is a solid case. Like if a team are really firing and moving the ball quickly there's no need for a keeper pottering up.
Also there will be more traps set as the year goes on.
I think 3v3 is the best rule of the lot.
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on January 27, 2025, 10:35:18 PMQuote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2025, 11:19:27 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 27, 2025, 11:00:28 AMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
Maybe if teams pushed up and didn't retreat into the 40m zone then the keeper doesn't become such a threat.
The issue here isn't the rule so much as the culture within GAA management teams for convoluting things, and for pushing the rulebook to create perceived advantages, whether they exist or not, instead of setting a context for sport.
By accident rather than design, Armagh ended up with a goalkeeper rather than a midfielder in goals for 2024.
The effect? Less emphasis on "trick plays" and more emphasis on playing your own position.
So instead of Ethan Rafferty finding space and running between the lines, the likes of Conaty and Grimley did this role instead.
The outcome? Well Armagh won an AI conceding a goal every 5 games or so. Blaine became the third no.1 in a row to win an AI without ever crossing out of his own 45.
The knock on effect? Negligible it seems. The media continue convincing themselves that Niall Morgan is the MVP of the country, whilst GAA management teams up and down the country are still convincing themselves they need to create Niall Morgan clones.
This is one of the most interesting posts on this topic. People watch Morgan etc and only see what he brings to the game. He may kick 1 or 2 points but 20 attacks may be slowed down to a walk also. His role changes the dynamic of the team.
Then it's up to opposing management teams to find a solution to that. Was more possible to do that when 15 players were allowed to go where they like. Anyway I don't see the problem. If Tyrone are leading and Morgan is slowing up attacks then it should be up to the opposition to press up (again easier to do when you are able to use all 15 men and can do it further up the pitch instead of being forced to do it within one half), if Tyrone are losing and Morgan is slowing the game up then why would the opposition care?
My point really isn't about what the opposition should do to negate /punish Niall Morgan.
The question managers should be asking themselves should be concerned on whether there's actually any benefit at all in having a keeper roam the field.
Using the AI as a benchmark, it would seem the answer is firmly no. Even leaving aside the fact that champions tend to have "proper" keepers. Tyrone's performance levels in championship football have declined over the past few years, correlating with the cult of Morgan growing. Prior to 2022 he might have taken the occasional walk, and came up to hit frees. But he was very much a keeper.
I'll move over to my own county (Down) and look at its club championship. Almost every team in our SFC experiments with or employs a wandering keeper. Except one. Kilcoo.
I know I'm still at small sample stage. But somewhere along the line people really have to ask themselves why our goalkeepers are making 100m runs, while our half forwards are reduced to making short darting runs, or decoy runs, to recycle the ball for goalkeepers.
Personally, I think there's no 1-size-fits-all set of rules. Every team will have its strengths and weaknesses and they they will try to use the rules to get the most out of the players they have.
Using Morgan as a reason to change rules, or Jim McGuinness for that matter just means that those teams have found a way to get the best from their team within the rules.
That will not change no matter what the rules are.
What might change is the teams that have strengths to exploit the rules to the detriment of others - so maybe Mayo, or Cork or Meath or someone else will find these rules suit the profile of their players to a tee and take full advantage.
In my view, complicating the rules just makes it more likely that some teams will come up with tactics to change the face of the game again.
The rules committee have tried to predict what this might look like - which is just a gamble in my view.
I've only seen one full game over the weekend and a few snippets from other matches, but looking at the scores across the divisions seems to say that in Div 1 there's not a massive advantage to anyone and scoring looks similar to previous years. In the lower divisions there some huge scores, which tends to suggest one sided games or free-for alls.
Has the overall product improved?
We will just have to wait and see how it pans out when it settles and teams get used to these new rules, and maybe it'll be a revelation. But for now, I really don't see a major advantage.
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 28, 2025, 09:29:14 AMPersonally, I think there's no 1-size-fits-all set of rules. Every team will have its strengths and weaknesses and they they will try to use the rules to get the most out of the players they have.
Using Morgan as a reason to change rules, or Jim McGuinness for that matter just means that those teams have found a way to get the best from their team within the rules.
That will not change no matter what the rules are.
What might change is the teams that have strengths to exploit the rules to the detriment of others - so maybe Mayo, or Cork or Meath or someone else will find these rules suit the profile of their players to a tee and take full advantage.
In my view, complicating the rules just makes it more likely that some teams will come up with tactics to change the face of the game again.
The rules committee have tried to predict what this might look like - which is just a gamble in my view.
I've only seen one full game over the weekend and a few snippets from other matches, but looking at the scores across the divisions seems to say that in Div 1 there's not a massive advantage to anyone and scoring looks similar to previous years. In the lower divisions there some huge scores, which tends to suggest one sided games or free-for alls.
Has the overall product improved?
We will just have to wait and see how it pans out when it settles and teams get used to these new rules, and maybe it'll be a revelation. But for now, I really don't see a major advantage.
and this is games where teams are supposedly evenly matched. Wait to the Leinster championship, Dublin vs Wicklow/Longford should be some craic
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 09:10:10 AMMy point really isn't about what the opposition should do to negate /punish Niall Morgan.
The question managers should be asking themselves should be concerned on whether there's actually any benefit at all in having a keeper roam the field.
Using the AI as a benchmark, it would seem the answer is firmly no. Even leaving aside the fact that champions tend to have "proper" keepers. Tyrone's performance levels in championship football have declined over the past few years, correlating with the cult of Morgan growing. Prior to 2022 he might have taken the occasional walk, and came up to hit frees. But he was very much a keeper.
I'll move over to my own county (Down) and look at its club championship. Almost every team in our SFC experiments with or employs a wandering keeper. Except one. Kilcoo.
I know I'm still at small sample stage. But somewhere along the line people really have to ask themselves why our goalkeepers are making 100m runs, while our half forwards are reduced to making short darting runs, or decoy runs, to recycle the ball for goalkeepers.
I'd say that has more to do with our defence being non-existent for large portions of the game and relying on McCurry or Canavan to produce something special. I remember a game last year where Morgan caught a ball and ran out to the 20 and not a single player around him had their head up looking for the ball so he eventually got to the 45 and kicked it to McCurry. There was another play where the defence had about 5 or 6 handpasses in a row despite the fact that we could've been up the field. Ball got to Morgan and he took us from the 20 up to midfield with a kickpass into Mattie Donnelly I think it was. Putting any sort of blame on Morgan is laughable. He provides more attacking threat than some of our outfield players whilst being an above averge keeper
Is it laughable though?
Look, Morgan is quality and he's a leader.
But please look at this as objectively as you can. Tyrone have spent the past 3 seasons elevating their keeper to the point that he's now their most important outfield player.
You got to the point last season whereby the 6-8 genuinely outstanding outfield players you have, are playing second fiddle to a tactic that doesn't work.
Be objective.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:05:03 AMIs it laughable though?
Look, Morgan is quality and he's a leader.
But please look at this as objectively as you can. Tyrone have spent the past 3 seasons elevating their keeper to the point that he's most important outfield player.
You got to the point last season whereby the 6-8 genuinely outstanding outfield players you have, are playing second fiddle to a tactic that doesn't work.
Be objective.
So Tyrone's resent dip in form is down (in part or full) to the rise of the Morgan cult? Have you watched Tyrone the last couple of years, while so many haven't been putting in, Morgan has.
Tbrick, yes, 1 size doesn't fit all, couldn't agree more. It's finding that right balance
Quote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 10:08:24 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:05:03 AMIs it laughable though?
Look, Morgan is quality and he's a leader.
But please look at this as objectively as you can. Tyrone have spent the past 3 seasons elevating their keeper to the point that he's most important outfield player.
You got to the point last season whereby the 6-8 genuinely outstanding outfield players you have, are playing second fiddle to a tactic that doesn't work.
Be objective.
So Tyrone's resent dip in form is down (in part or full) to the rise of the Morgan cult? Have you watched Tyrone the last couple of years, while so many haven't been putting in, Morgan has.
Tbrick, yes, 1 size doesn't fit all, couldn't agree more. It's finding that right balance
Correlation doesn't always equal causation.
But you might wish to ponder why it is that "so many haven't been putting it in", whilst one player has.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:30:17 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 10:08:24 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:05:03 AMIs it laughable though?
Look, Morgan is quality and he's a leader.
But please look at this as objectively as you can. Tyrone have spent the past 3 seasons elevating their keeper to the point that he's most important outfield player.
You got to the point last season whereby the 6-8 genuinely outstanding outfield players you have, are playing second fiddle to a tactic that doesn't work.
Be objective.
So Tyrone's resent dip in form is down (in part or full) to the rise of the Morgan cult? Have you watched Tyrone the last couple of years, while so many haven't been putting in, Morgan has.
Tbrick, yes, 1 size doesn't fit all, couldn't agree more. It's finding that right balance
Correlation doesn't always equal causation.
But you might wish to ponder why it is that "so many haven't been putting it in", whilst one player has.
Post Sam slump, S&C, management, a myriad of reasons... but Morgan being one of the best players on the island certainly isn't one of them. When Morgan is out the field he is an extra outfield player, not a keeper. With the extra space available most counties in the next few years will have a county level outfield player in goals imo
Quote from: thewobbler on January 27, 2025, 11:19:27 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 27, 2025, 11:00:28 AMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on January 26, 2025, 02:41:47 PMPaddy Tally is on the ball when he says that the attacking goalkeeper is killing the game by giving the attacking team a 12 v 11 advantage. Goalkeepers should be confined to their own small parallelogram.
In my opinion the 40m arc and 2-pointers are no addition to the game. The pattern of attacking play now revolves mainly around this arc and completely changes the nature of the game that we knew before the possession game took over.
Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness may have brought success to their counties with their tactics but their legacy is a bastardised game.
Maybe if teams pushed up and didn't retreat into the 40m zone then the keeper doesn't become such a threat.
This is what the FRC want teams to do but there is no evidence - yet - that it is effective.
Committing to pressing teams in their half has a theoretically positive element to it but is covered with risk
Quote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 10:41:31 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:30:17 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 10:08:24 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:05:03 AMIs it laughable though?
Look, Morgan is quality and he's a leader.
But please look at this as objectively as you can. Tyrone have spent the past 3 seasons elevating their keeper to the point that he's most important outfield player.
You got to the point last season whereby the 6-8 genuinely outstanding outfield players you have, are playing second fiddle to a tactic that doesn't work.
Be objective.
So Tyrone's resent dip in form is down (in part or full) to the rise of the Morgan cult? Have you watched Tyrone the last couple of years, while so many haven't been putting in, Morgan has.
Tbrick, yes, 1 size doesn't fit all, couldn't agree more. It's finding that right balance
Correlation doesn't always equal causation.
But you might wish to ponder why it is that "so many haven't been putting it in", whilst one player has.
Post Sam slump, S&C, management, a myriad of reasons... but Morgan being one of the best players on the island certainly isn't one of them. When Morgan is out the field he is an extra outfield player, not a keeper. With the extra space available most counties in the next few years will have a county level outfield player in goals imo
And therein lies the conundrum.
Hard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
But the sight of a man in a different coloured jersey, doing the exact same things that outfield players have always done, does seem to overstimulate the brain into thinking that this a solution rather than a problem.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 10:41:31 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:30:17 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 10:08:24 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:05:03 AMIs it laughable though?
Look, Morgan is quality and he's a leader.
But please look at this as objectively as you can. Tyrone have spent the past 3 seasons elevating their keeper to the point that he's most important outfield player.
You got to the point last season whereby the 6-8 genuinely outstanding outfield players you have, are playing second fiddle to a tactic that doesn't work.
Be objective.
So Tyrone's resent dip in form is down (in part or full) to the rise of the Morgan cult? Have you watched Tyrone the last couple of years, while so many haven't been putting in, Morgan has.
Tbrick, yes, 1 size doesn't fit all, couldn't agree more. It's finding that right balance
Correlation doesn't always equal causation.
But you might wish to ponder why it is that "so many haven't been putting it in", whilst one player has.
Post Sam slump, S&C, management, a myriad of reasons... but Morgan being one of the best players on the island certainly isn't one of them. When Morgan is out the field he is an extra outfield player, not a keeper. With the extra space available most counties in the next few years will have a county level outfield player in goals imo
And therein lies the conundrum.
Hard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
But the sight of a man in a different coloured jersey, doing the exact same things that outfield players have always done, does seem to overstimulate the brain into thinking that this a solution rather than a problem.
There's 2 points to it I see:
1 - Nobody is saying Niall Morgan isn't helping Tyrone out but I'd say there's more issues with the other players in the Tyrone team not doing the things they're relying on Morgan for now. It looks sometimes when you're watching these games (not just Tyrone) you'd think that the keepers are the only players allowed to kick the ball forward.
2 - Every time a coach takes an outfield player to play the 'Morgan' role they completely forget that Niall is one of the best shot stoppers in the game. Played in goals at the top level in the northern soccer league ffs.
Will Niall Morgan have less of a role outfield as Tyrone improve?
As said, Morgan is equally at home in the small box as on the halfway line. He is a top keeper in the traditional sense so I suppose he's not the best example as he can do both roles well.
Plus while some of his play can be slow he's also one of the best passers on the Tyrone team. Especially longer range. He has set up plenty of break out attacks with a well delivered long ball.
Morgan has been going upfield regularly for a number of years. He's been caught out a number of times, but his impact on the team has been significant. If other outfield players aren't having a similar impact going forward then that is on them to improve. I don't foresee Morgan's role being restricted regardless of how these rules changes go. He's just too influential to play as a standard, on his line keeper.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMHard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
What ones are these now? Your argument that the last 3 AI winning teams had more traditional keepers?
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 10:41:31 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:30:17 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 10:08:24 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:05:03 AMIs it laughable though?
Look, Morgan is quality and he's a leader.
But please look at this as objectively as you can. Tyrone have spent the past 3 seasons elevating their keeper to the point that he's most important outfield player.
You got to the point last season whereby the 6-8 genuinely outstanding outfield players you have, are playing second fiddle to a tactic that doesn't work.
Be objective.
So Tyrone's resent dip in form is down (in part or full) to the rise of the Morgan cult? Have you watched Tyrone the last couple of years, while so many haven't been putting in, Morgan has.
Tbrick, yes, 1 size doesn't fit all, couldn't agree more. It's finding that right balance
Correlation doesn't always equal causation.
But you might wish to ponder why it is that "so many haven't been putting it in", whilst one player has.
Post Sam slump, S&C, management, a myriad of reasons... but Morgan being one of the best players on the island certainly isn't one of them. When Morgan is out the field he is an extra outfield player, not a keeper. With the extra space available most counties in the next few years will have a county level outfield player in goals imo
And therein lies the conundrum.
Hard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
But the sight of a man in a different coloured jersey, doing the exact same things that outfield players have always done, does seem to overstimulate the brain into thinking that this a solution rather than a problem.
Don't know if you read my post but I'll say it again, those outfield players weren't doing what Morgan is doing. Hopefully that will change with MOR but over the last 3 years half them looked to have no interest in getting the ball forward. Canavans goal against Monaghan for example, Morgan said some of the players were telling him to let it go out for a goalkick after Hughes' shot. He didn't let it go out, he kicked it about 45m to Canavan who finsihed it off. That about sums it up. The others had no interest in getting the ball forward quickly. There's been plenty of other times where the defence would be passing about and it would take Morgan to do something with it like he did against Derry and has done plenty of other times. Again, hopefully this changes with Malachy and we aren't looking for Morgan as much to set up attacks but with these new rules in that force 3 defenders back it would be stupid to not take advantage of a 12v11 opportunity when Morgan is the extra man
Quote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 11:46:20 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMHard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
What ones are these now? Your argument that the last 3 AI winning teams had more traditional keepers?
Yep.
It's a small data set, I know. But I'm not sure a case exists yet in county or club football whereby a team's results have improved after enabling a roaming keeper.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 28, 2025, 11:43:39 AMAs said, Morgan is equally at home in the small box as on the halfway line. He is a top keeper in the traditional sense so I suppose he's not the best example as he can do both roles well.
Plus while some of his play can be slow he's also one of the best passers on the Tyrone team. Especially longer range. He has set up plenty of break out attacks with a well delivered long ball.
Morgan has been going upfield regularly for a number of years. He's been caught out a number of times, but his impact on the team has been significant. If other outfield players aren't having a similar impact going forward then that is on them to improve. I don't foresee Morgan's role being restricted regardless of how these rules changes go. He's just too influential to play as a standard, on his line keeper.
This is exactly it. Anybody that has watched Tyrone over the past 3 years knows this. All well and good saying the outfield players can do what Morgan can do and they probably could. The problem is that they weren't doing it. Now that the rules have changed and 3 players can't attack it places even more responsibilty on Morgan to do what he's been doing
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 11:50:58 AMQuote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 11:46:20 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMHard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
What ones are these now? Your argument that the last 3 AI winning teams had more traditional keepers?
Yep.
It's a small data set, I know. But I'm not sure a case exists yet in county or club football whereby a team's results have improved after enabling a roaming keeper.
Regardless of the data set size, it's a moot point as we're now into a new chapter of football. What went before has no real baring on what will happen from this season on. 12 v 11 is something that will absolutely be exploited to the full. As a coach you're always trying to gain a numerical advantage, well 1 is being handed to them on a plate. Tyrone is ahead of the curve atm, the rest, will have to catch up
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 11:50:58 AMQuote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 11:46:20 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMHard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
What ones are these now? Your argument that the last 3 AI winning teams had more traditional keepers?
Yep.
It's a small data set, I know. But I'm not sure a case exists yet in county or club football whereby a team's results have improved after enabling a roaming keeper.
Ok, so it's a small data set, but these are "hard cold facts"?
Out of curiosity, how come you chose 3 years? Why not go back 4? Did something perhaps happen in 2001 that might invalidate your argument a touch?
I don't really care either way, but don't present little more then speculation as fact ffs.
FWIW btw, Shane Ryan is categorically NOT a traditional 'keeper, famously playing out the field for Rathmore. You might not find him as far forward as frequently as Morgan, but he doesn't stand on his line for 70 mins.
Quote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2025, 11:57:01 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 11:50:58 AMQuote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 11:46:20 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMHard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
What ones are these now? Your argument that the last 3 AI winning teams had more traditional keepers?
Yep.
It's a small data set, I know. But I'm not sure a case exists yet in county or club football whereby a team's results have improved after enabling a roaming keeper.
Regardless of the data set size, it's a moot point as we're now into a new chapter of football. What went before has no real baring on what will happen from this season on. 12 v 11 is something that will absolutely be exploited to the full. As a coach you're always trying to gain a numerical advantage, well 1 is being handed to them on a plate. Tyrone is ahead of the curve atm, the rest, will have to catch up
You're 100% right. It would almost be idiotic for teams to not take advantage of a 12v11 situation if they have a keeper that can do it. If you have a player like Morgan and you don't use him to get forward when 3 outfield players have been banned from doing so you shouldn't be in management
Quote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 12:09:47 PMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 11:50:58 AMQuote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 11:46:20 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMHard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
What ones are these now? Your argument that the last 3 AI winning teams had more traditional keepers?
Yep.
It's a small data set, I know. But I'm not sure a case exists yet in county or club football whereby a team's results have improved after enabling a roaming keeper.
Ok, so it's a small data set, but these are "hard cold facts"?
Out of curiosity, how come you chose 3 years? Why not go back 4? Did something perhaps happen in 2001 that might invalidate your argument a touch?
I don't really care either way, but don't present little more then speculation as fact ffs.
Jesus you're angsty.
Why 3 years?
Because that's roughly around the same time that roaming keepers took off.
For example, when Tyrone won the 2021 AI, Morgan was predominately a keeper who rarely left his own 45, apart from for long range frees.
Since then, Tyrone, Armagh, Derry, Galway, Monaghan and to some extent Mayo (I'm focusing on top flight teams here btw) have all pursued a strategy of keepers becoming link men through the opposition's half.
And it hasn't, yet, worked out for any of them.
——
I notice your edit on Ryan.
And now you're just being difficult.
A goalkeeper empowered and willing to help out his defence is not even remotely the same concept as the goalkeeper who end up in forward positions. Don't compare the two. It's like comparing a centre half forward with a corner back.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 12:15:47 PMQuote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 12:09:47 PMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 11:50:58 AMQuote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 11:46:20 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMHard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
What ones are these now? Your argument that the last 3 AI winning teams had more traditional keepers?
Yep.
It's a small data set, I know. But I'm not sure a case exists yet in county or club football whereby a team's results have improved after enabling a roaming keeper.
Ok, so it's a small data set, but these are "hard cold facts"?
Out of curiosity, how come you chose 3 years? Why not go back 4? Did something perhaps happen in 2001 that might invalidate your argument a touch?
I don't really care either way, but don't present little more then speculation as fact ffs.
Jesus you're angsty.
Why 3 years?
Because that's roughly around the same time that roaming keepers took off.
For example, when Tyrone won the 2021 AI, Morgan was predominately a keeper who rarely left his own 45, apart from for long range frees.
Since then, Tyrone, Armagh, Derry, Galway, Monaghan and to some extent Mayo (I'm focusing on top flight teams here btw) have all pursued a strategy of keepers becoming link men through the opposition's half.
And it hasn't, yet, worked out for any of them.
——
I notice your edit on Ryan.
And now you're just being difficult.
A goalkeeper empowered and willing to help out his defence is not even remotely the same concept as the goalkeeper who end up in forward positions. Don't compare the two. It's like comparing a centre half forward with a corner back.
Your point of 2021 is absolutely invalid. 2021 was the same year where at one point of the game, Niall Morgan was marking Rory Beggan in the monaghans half in the Ulster final.
He was scoring points from play as early as 2019 (see Roscommon NFL) when Harte was still manager.
Quote from: gallsman on January 28, 2025, 11:46:20 AMQuote from: thewobbler on January 28, 2025, 10:55:47 AMHard cold facts would suggest that teams with a traditional keeper outperform those with a roaming keeper.
What ones are these now? Your argument that the last 3 AI winning teams had more traditional keepers?
When has the non traditional keeper ever won Sam? Tyrone in '21 just with Morgan?
Cluxton was obviously hugely influential over the years but not by coming up during open play, Blaine Hughes last year came up a bit but more of a pivot man, both those keepers had great impacts with their kickouts.
Surely it's bound to change this year with the 12 v 11, theres a great chance to use the extra man. Even what Armagh did with Ethan Rafferty the other night, if you're chasing a game bring on a non traditional keeper and throw caution to the wind, wonder will Donegal try that with Murphy.
Where is the sense in getting two points for a long range free and only one point for a 45?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2025, 01:50:56 PMWhere is the sense in getting two points for a long range free and only one point for a 45?
Don't think 45's deserve it, but if you were to make frees 1 point then teams will just foul constantly around the arc rather than risk 2 pointers.
Say for example your corner back makes a great last ditch tackle or block to prevent a goal, ball goes for 45, I don't think they deserve to concede 2 points from what is for a lot of players a simple kick from a 45. You may not agree but thats the thinking.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2025, 01:50:56 PMWhere is the sense in getting two points for a long range free and only one point for a 45?
Frees should at least have to be taken from where they are awarded. Moving the ball back from a 1 point location to a 2 pointer does not seem right to me. I get the 2 points for a long range shot from play, it rewards skill ... less so from a dead ball free.
Quote from: balladmaker on January 28, 2025, 04:03:11 PMQuote from: Captain Obvious on January 28, 2025, 01:50:56 PMWhere is the sense in getting two points for a long range free and only one point for a 45?
Frees should at least have to be taken from where they are awarded. Moving the ball back from a 1 point location to a 2 pointer does not seem right to me. I get the 2 points for a long range shot from play, it rewards skill ... less so from a dead ball free.
If the free occurred originally outside the 40 and was brought forward, the player has he option. He can't bring it out if the free happened inside the 40, so if we keep our gobs closed they won't have that ability to have the handy 2 pointers from frees.
Do the crime do the time!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
Quote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
That's rule, gives it to the nearest player. Just don't over carry the ball should sort that scenario out though
Quote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Why should the team committing a foul get the benefit of slowing down the other team to enable them to get back into defensive shape?
Quote from: DubsforSam on January 29, 2025, 05:44:19 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Why should the team committing a foul get the benefit of slowing down the other team to enable them to get back into defensive shape?
If it's a free for a foul on the ball, and not an opponent, it is a bit ridiculous to expect a player to perhaps run 10 or 20 yards to the nearest opponent to hand over the ball, considering the initial offence actually impeded their own team anyway. Ball should be set down, and the onus on the other team to go get it and get their attack going. Run 20 yards, hand over the ball, then there's a 'solo and go' and that man is out of the game altogether? The punishment in this case far outweighs the crime.
For my own clarity, once a 'solo and go' is done, how long do the defensive team have to wait to put a challenge in? Is this open for abuse by players taking the solo and go, then just running in to a nearby opponent?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2025, 07:12:23 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
That's rule, gives it to the nearest player. Just don't over carry the ball should sort that scenario out though
So you think what happened in the first 30 seconds of the Monaghan Cavan game was fair? Player gets fouled, takes his solo and go, ref gives a free to Cavan (?), player literally drops it at the feet of the Cavan man so it's brought in for a guaranteed point.
Quote from: thebigfullforward on January 29, 2025, 08:47:59 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2025, 07:12:23 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
That's rule, gives it to the nearest player. Just don't over carry the ball should sort that scenario out though
So you think what happened in the first 30 seconds of the Monaghan Cavan game was fair? Player gets fouled, takes his solo and go, ref gives a free to Cavan (?), player literally drops it at the feet of the Cavan man so it's brought in for a guaranteed point.
Its not what's fair, the player knew he had to give the player the ball, not drop it at his feet or throw it to him or leave it where it was
There were lots of occasions from the games I watched that common sense was used and to be fair the players reacted as normal people not spoilt brats when the ball wasn't gift wrapped to them.
The national referees are also under pressure to perform as per rule or risk getting a low assessment and not be considered for the next game or a game at a higher level.
Personally dropping it at his feet or throwing it back to him should be acceptable, or as I said the onus is on the player not to foul the ball
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 08:55:52 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 29, 2025, 08:47:59 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2025, 07:12:23 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
That's rule, gives it to the nearest player. Just don't over carry the ball should sort that scenario out though
So you think what happened in the first 30 seconds of the Monaghan Cavan game was fair? Player gets fouled, takes his solo and go, ref gives a free to Cavan (?), player literally drops it at the feet of the Cavan man so it's brought in for a guaranteed point.
Its not what's fair, the player knew he had to give the player the ball, not drop it at his feet or throw it to him or leave it where it was
There were lots of occasions from the games I watched that common sense was used and to be fair the players reacted as normal people not spoilt brats when the ball wasn't gift wrapped to them.
The national referees are also under pressure to perform as per rule or risk getting a low assessment and not be considered for the next game or a game at a higher level.
Personally dropping it at his feet or throwing it back to him should be acceptable, or as I said the onus is on the player not to foul the ball
Maybe the refs and umpires should've gotten more games to practice in then because it seemed like a lot of things were missed across the weekend. I'm sure you've heard that clip (sorry can't remember what podcast it was, think it was Aaron Kernan and Colm Parkinson) where a player was fouled and he ran away from the ball and the opposition player ran back to track him so he left the ball on the ground. What's the craic with that one? Do you have to let your man run up the pitch with no-one marking him and wait for someone to take the ball off you? As you said refs are under pressure to follow the rules properly or risk not getting the higher profile games so you can sympathise with them about that. Genuinely laughed out loud when I heard that and the one about the boy putting on an Antrim accent to get the free for dissent though
Quote from: manwithnoplan on January 29, 2025, 08:26:41 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 29, 2025, 05:44:19 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Why should the team committing a foul get the benefit of slowing down the other team to enable them to get back into defensive shape?
If it's a free for a foul on the ball, and not an opponent, it is a bit ridiculous to expect a player to perhaps run 10 or 20 yards to the nearest opponent to hand over the ball, considering the initial offence actually impeded their own team anyway. Ball should be set down, and the onus on the other team to go get it and get their attack going. Run 20 yards, hand over the ball, then there's a 'solo and go' and that man is out of the game altogether? The punishment in this case far outweighs the crime.
For my own clarity, once a 'solo and go' is done, how long do the defensive team have to wait to put a challenge in? Is this open for abuse by players taking the solo and go, then just running in to a nearby opponent?
4m, and yes it definitely is. Depending on the ref I'd say a lot will buy it if the player taking the solo and go just runs into the man
If you score from outside the 45-metre line during open play, you receive two points. I would remove the scoring ARC.
When you give up a free , sit the ball on the ground and move on .
I hope the FRC tidy the rules up However, they are constructive, and we must work with them.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 29, 2025, 09:52:55 AMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 29, 2025, 08:26:41 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 29, 2025, 05:44:19 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Why should the team committing a foul get the benefit of slowing down the other team to enable them to get back into defensive shape?
If it's a free for a foul on the ball, and not an opponent, it is a bit ridiculous to expect a player to perhaps run 10 or 20 yards to the nearest opponent to hand over the ball, considering the initial offence actually impeded their own team anyway. Ball should be set down, and the onus on the other team to go get it and get their attack going. Run 20 yards, hand over the ball, then there's a 'solo and go' and that man is out of the game altogether? The punishment in this case far outweighs the crime.
For my own clarity, once a 'solo and go' is done, how long do the defensive team have to wait to put a challenge in? Is this open for abuse by players taking the solo and go, then just running in to a nearby opponent?
4m, and yes it definitely is. Depending on the ref I'd say a lot will buy it if the player taking the solo and go just runs into the man
You know if a player just runs into someone (unlike the ballinderry game) its a foul? If the whistle is blown, if you are in possession give the ball back, the player can solo go and if but if he deliberately runs into someone, the ref should just over turn it to a foul the other way. Will cancel that malarky out
Is the 50m penalty for all forms of delaying a retake? (free) - In the Tyrone, Derry game - Baker got penalised when the ball was between his knees and he was on the ground, Doherty for kicking the ball away a couple of metres
- At neither time was the Derry player in possession of the ball so they were not obligated to hand it back so that part of the 'rule enhancements' shoud not have applied.
Quote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
I had no idea this was a rule!
So if I foul the ball on the 21, and the nearest opposition player is 10m away I have to go give him the ball and he can take a free from there? Not where the foul occurred?
If they're being strict about the rules, then that opposition player would have to carry the ball back 10m to where the original foul was, otherwise he's taking it from the wrong place and its a hop ball?
Holding the ball or throwing it away I get, but surely setting the ball down and moving on is the sensible rule.
There was a 50m advantage given to Tyrone on Sat night against Derry. Derry player was in around the Tyrone end line, was on the ground, 3 defenders around him/on him and he couldn't get up. Ref blows the free for overcarrying - fair enough. But he wasn't able to immediately get up as he had to wait for the defenders to get off him so the ref gave the 50m advantage. I thought that was harsh.
If the ball isn't in your hand you can't hand it back, teams will soon cotton on and foul in ways so as not to incur the penalty
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:11:10 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 29, 2025, 09:52:55 AMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 29, 2025, 08:26:41 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 29, 2025, 05:44:19 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Why should the team committing a foul get the benefit of slowing down the other team to enable them to get back into defensive shape?
If it's a free for a foul on the ball, and not an opponent, it is a bit ridiculous to expect a player to perhaps run 10 or 20 yards to the nearest opponent to hand over the ball, considering the initial offence actually impeded their own team anyway. Ball should be set down, and the onus on the other team to go get it and get their attack going. Run 20 yards, hand over the ball, then there's a 'solo and go' and that man is out of the game altogether? The punishment in this case far outweighs the crime.
For my own clarity, once a 'solo and go' is done, how long do the defensive team have to wait to put a challenge in? Is this open for abuse by players taking the solo and go, then just running in to a nearby opponent?
4m, and yes it definitely is. Depending on the ref I'd say a lot will buy it if the player taking the solo and go just runs into the man
You know if a player just runs into someone (unlike the ballinderry game) its a foul? If the whistle is blown, if you are in possession give the ball back, the player can solo go and if but if he deliberately runs into someone, the ref should just over turn it to a foul the other way. Will cancel that malarky out
So it's up to the refs discretion whether a player intentionally ran into someone else or not? No difference to how it was before I guess but before you weren't incorrectly punished with a free against you that's brought up 50m
Quote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
Surely irrespective of who you "hand it over" to is it not still the referee's responsibility to ensure the free/tap and go is taken from the place of the original foul?
Quote from: thebigfullforward on January 29, 2025, 10:19:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:11:10 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 29, 2025, 09:52:55 AMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 29, 2025, 08:26:41 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 29, 2025, 05:44:19 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Why should the team committing a foul get the benefit of slowing down the other team to enable them to get back into defensive shape?
If it's a free for a foul on the ball, and not an opponent, it is a bit ridiculous to expect a player to perhaps run 10 or 20 yards to the nearest opponent to hand over the ball, considering the initial offence actually impeded their own team anyway. Ball should be set down, and the onus on the other team to go get it and get their attack going. Run 20 yards, hand over the ball, then there's a 'solo and go' and that man is out of the game altogether? The punishment in this case far outweighs the crime.
For my own clarity, once a 'solo and go' is done, how long do the defensive team have to wait to put a challenge in? Is this open for abuse by players taking the solo and go, then just running in to a nearby opponent?
4m, and yes it definitely is. Depending on the ref I'd say a lot will buy it if the player taking the solo and go just runs into the man
You know if a player just runs into someone (unlike the ballinderry game) its a foul? If the whistle is blown, if you are in possession give the ball back, the player can solo go and if but if he deliberately runs into someone, the ref should just over turn it to a foul the other way. Will cancel that malarky out
So it's up to the refs discretion whether a player intentionally ran into someone else or not? No difference to how it was before I guess but before you weren't incorrectly punished with a free against you that's brought up 50m
It will be the ref's call on whether someone is acting the dick or not. There are genuine times for me that its impossible to release the ball quick if lads are around you, so common sense should be used, but if you know he's acting a dick then just move it forward, hopefully the next time he'll understand...
Did a seminar at the weekend, and we had about 8 or 9 issues that we had concerns with, looking for clarifications on them, as we didn't at the time, with those who were there that have been involved in the set up of the rules.. So even the rule makers still are querying the rules..
A lot of this because not all scenarios have been examined properly enough and whether the consequences equal the crime
One big advantage of the rule around having to hand the ball back is that it immediately gives an "extra" advantage to the team who were fouled in that the player who committed the foul is likely to be out of position.
Bar one or two all the players at the weekend didn't seem to have too much of an issue with the rule and it seemed to remove so much of the embarrassing childish nonsense from the game.
Some people are looking at the games at the weekend as the end of the process, as opposed to another step in the chain. The FRC had said all along that they never expected things to work perfectly on day one out of the traps. Overall this is such a better way of doing rule changes compared to the old way of a handul of ould lads sitting around a committee table coming up with a rule and then that either being approved or not.
Quote from: manwithnoplan on January 29, 2025, 08:26:41 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 29, 2025, 05:44:19 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Why should the team committing a foul get the benefit of slowing down the other team to enable them to get back into defensive shape?
If it's a free for a foul on the ball, and not an opponent, it is a bit ridiculous to expect a player to perhaps run 10 or 20 yards to the nearest opponent to hand over the ball, considering the initial offence actually impeded their own team anyway. Ball should be set down, and the onus on the other team to go get it and get their attack going. Run 20 yards, hand over the ball, then there's a 'solo and go' and that man is out of the game altogether? The punishment in this case far outweighs the crime.
For my own clarity, once a 'solo and go' is done, how long do the defensive team have to wait to put a challenge in? Is this open for abuse by players taking the solo and go, then just running in to a nearby opponent?
In the Ulster game Niall Grimley did exactly this ran into the opponent and ref gave a tap over free.
Quote from: statto on January 29, 2025, 10:48:40 AMQuote from: manwithnoplan on January 29, 2025, 08:26:41 AMQuote from: DubsforSam on January 29, 2025, 05:44:19 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 28, 2025, 09:13:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
w**ker of a rule. I've a lot of time for Gavin but he comes across as a condescending p***k at times when discussing these rules.
Why should the team committing a foul get the benefit of slowing down the other team to enable them to get back into defensive shape?
If it's a free for a foul on the ball, and not an opponent, it is a bit ridiculous to expect a player to perhaps run 10 or 20 yards to the nearest opponent to hand over the ball, considering the initial offence actually impeded their own team anyway. Ball should be set down, and the onus on the other team to go get it and get their attack going. Run 20 yards, hand over the ball, then there's a 'solo and go' and that man is out of the game altogether? The punishment in this case far outweighs the crime.
For my own clarity, once a 'solo and go' is done, how long do the defensive team have to wait to put a challenge in? Is this open for abuse by players taking the solo and go, then just running in to a nearby opponent?
In the Ulster game Niall Grimley did exactly this ran into the opponent and ref gave a tap over free.
Yeah absolutely, most refs will fall for it too.
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 29, 2025, 10:15:46 AMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
I had no idea this was a rule!
So if I foul the ball on the 21, and the nearest opposition player is 10m away I have to go give him the ball and he can take a free from there? Not where the foul occurred?
If they're being strict about the rules, then that opposition player would have to carry the ball back 10m to where the original foul was, otherwise he's taking it from the wrong place and its a hop ball?
Holding the ball or throwing it away I get, but surely setting the ball down and moving on is the sensible rule.
There was a 50m advantage given to Tyrone on Sat night against Derry. Derry player was in around the Tyrone end line, was on the ground, 3 defenders around him/on him and he couldn't get up. Ref blows the free for overcarrying - fair enough. But he wasn't able to immediately get up as he had to wait for the defenders to get off him so the ref gave the 50m advantage. I thought that was harsh.
Back to the question asked of the FRC, ´If I overcarry the ball and the ref calls a foul can i not just put the ball on the ground and move away?´
The answer is in the question, that's what should happen, put the ball on the ground without delay and move away and afaiu Jim Gavin post-weekend games, that's his opinion also.
Quote from: Main Street on January 29, 2025, 02:53:55 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 29, 2025, 10:15:46 AMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
I had no idea this was a rule!
So if I foul the ball on the 21, and the nearest opposition player is 10m away I have to go give him the ball and he can take a free from there? Not where the foul occurred?
If they're being strict about the rules, then that opposition player would have to carry the ball back 10m to where the original foul was, otherwise he's taking it from the wrong place and its a hop ball?
Holding the ball or throwing it away I get, but surely setting the ball down and moving on is the sensible rule.
There was a 50m advantage given to Tyrone on Sat night against Derry. Derry player was in around the Tyrone end line, was on the ground, 3 defenders around him/on him and he couldn't get up. Ref blows the free for overcarrying - fair enough. But he wasn't able to immediately get up as he had to wait for the defenders to get off him so the ref gave the 50m advantage. I thought that was harsh.
Back to the question asked of the FRC, ´If I overcarry the ball and the ref calls a foul can i not just put the ball on the ground and move away?´
The answer is in the question, that's what should happen, put the ball on the ground without delay and move away and afaiu Jim Gavin post-weekend games, that's his opinion also.
The rule says you must hand the ball to your nearest opponent does it not? Common sense would say set the ball down and move away..
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 29, 2025, 03:11:34 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 29, 2025, 02:53:55 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 29, 2025, 10:15:46 AMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
I had no idea this was a rule!
So if I foul the ball on the 21, and the nearest opposition player is 10m away I have to go give him the ball and he can take a free from there? Not where the foul occurred?
If they're being strict about the rules, then that opposition player would have to carry the ball back 10m to where the original foul was, otherwise he's taking it from the wrong place and its a hop ball?
Holding the ball or throwing it away I get, but surely setting the ball down and moving on is the sensible rule.
There was a 50m advantage given to Tyrone on Sat night against Derry. Derry player was in around the Tyrone end line, was on the ground, 3 defenders around him/on him and he couldn't get up. Ref blows the free for overcarrying - fair enough. But he wasn't able to immediately get up as he had to wait for the defenders to get off him so the ref gave the 50m advantage. I thought that was harsh.
Back to the question asked of the FRC, ´If I overcarry the ball and the ref calls a foul can i not just put the ball on the ground and move away?´
The answer is in the question, that's what should happen, put the ball on the ground without delay and move away and afaiu Jim Gavin post-weekend games, that's his opinion also.
The rule says you must hand the ball to your nearest opponent does it not? Common sense would say set the ball down and move away..
Monaghan got a free the other night and as the referee was blowing the whistle the player kicked the ball and it went to a Cavan player 20 meters away who had no Monaghan player near him.
He has to run back with the ball and as he was doing it a Monaghan player ran in from the side and boxed the ball out of his hands. The referee then grabbed the ball and sprinted up the field like Usain Bolt to give Monaghan a handy two pointer.
Quote from: Cavan19 on January 29, 2025, 03:19:51 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 29, 2025, 03:11:34 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 29, 2025, 02:53:55 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 29, 2025, 10:15:46 AMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
I had no idea this was a rule!
So if I foul the ball on the 21, and the nearest opposition player is 10m away I have to go give him the ball and he can take a free from there? Not where the foul occurred?
If they're being strict about the rules, then that opposition player would have to carry the ball back 10m to where the original foul was, otherwise he's taking it from the wrong place and its a hop ball?
Holding the ball or throwing it away I get, but surely setting the ball down and moving on is the sensible rule.
There was a 50m advantage given to Tyrone on Sat night against Derry. Derry player was in around the Tyrone end line, was on the ground, 3 defenders around him/on him and he couldn't get up. Ref blows the free for overcarrying - fair enough. But he wasn't able to immediately get up as he had to wait for the defenders to get off him so the ref gave the 50m advantage. I thought that was harsh.
Back to the question asked of the FRC, ´If I overcarry the ball and the ref calls a foul can i not just put the ball on the ground and move away?´
The answer is in the question, that's what should happen, put the ball on the ground without delay and move away and afaiu Jim Gavin post-weekend games, that's his opinion also.
The rule says you must hand the ball to your nearest opponent does it not? Common sense would say set the ball down and move away..
Monaghan got a free the other night and as the referee was blowing the whistle the player kicked the ball and it went to a Cavan player 20 meters away who had no Monaghan player near him.
He has to run back with the ball and as he was doing it a Monaghan player ran in from the side and boxed the ball out of his hands. The referee then grabbed the ball and sprinted up the field like Usain Bolt to give Monaghan a handy two pointer.
Daft isn't it?
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 29, 2025, 03:29:51 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on January 29, 2025, 03:19:51 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 29, 2025, 03:11:34 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 29, 2025, 02:53:55 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 29, 2025, 10:15:46 AMQuote from: Main Street on January 28, 2025, 07:05:55 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2025, 04:38:07 PMQuote from: donelli on January 27, 2025, 03:55:52 PMI was at the Cavan Monaghan game at the weekend. Thoughts on the new rules:
1v1 throw in: irrelevant enough. makes no difference either way.
dissent rule: has to be binned straight away. The ref brought the ball up about 10 times for 'dissent', most of which are questionable. 50m is a ridiculous penalty and wont be managable at the club game as it gives the referee too much influence. By the 2nd half on Saturday, the crowd were actually laughing at the decisions for this farcical rule.
the 3 inside: is workable. appears to be self policed by the players. It creates less congestion in the defending end and attacks can be penetrated better with more space available.
kick outs beyond 40m: very good addition. created a lot of aerial battles and duals.
2 point arc: will influence the game a lot, particularly if strength of the wind increases/decreases etc. Th downside of it is that is completely devalues a goal.
solo and go: quicks the game. very difficulty for the defender though.
no back pass for the goalie: good addition too. created more pressing high up.
roaming goalie in attacking half: teams choice. Both teams adopted this on Saturday. Monaghan probably won the game as their keeper was better at being the 'spare man'. If this stays, there will be less 'natural' keepers in no. 1 and id imagine managers will revert to a midfielder with a good place ball kick.
overall it was a good open game with plenty of entertainment for the supporters.
Are you implying the ref will go out of his way to move the ball forward for dissent? Think its simple enough, players don't stop a quick solo/free and don't talk back to ref after he has given his decision and reason why. Not sure on the only captains rule but hey ho
If that were only so.
Some refs penalised the "stop a quick free" with dogmatic reference to this (nonsensical) answer offered by the FRC.
If I over-carry the ball and the referee calls a foul, can I not just drop the ball and get myself into a defensive position?
A. No. In this scenario if you don't "hand over" the ball by giving it directly to the nearest opposition player in a prompt and respectful manner, the referee will consider that you are purposefully delay play will advance the ball 50m
I had no idea this was a rule!
So if I foul the ball on the 21, and the nearest opposition player is 10m away I have to go give him the ball and he can take a free from there? Not where the foul occurred?
If they're being strict about the rules, then that opposition player would have to carry the ball back 10m to where the original foul was, otherwise he's taking it from the wrong place and its a hop ball?
Holding the ball or throwing it away I get, but surely setting the ball down and moving on is the sensible rule.
There was a 50m advantage given to Tyrone on Sat night against Derry. Derry player was in around the Tyrone end line, was on the ground, 3 defenders around him/on him and he couldn't get up. Ref blows the free for overcarrying - fair enough. But he wasn't able to immediately get up as he had to wait for the defenders to get off him so the ref gave the 50m advantage. I thought that was harsh.
Back to the question asked of the FRC, ´If I overcarry the ball and the ref calls a foul can i not just put the ball on the ground and move away?´
The answer is in the question, that's what should happen, put the ball on the ground without delay and move away and afaiu Jim Gavin post-weekend games, that's his opinion also.
The rule says you must hand the ball to your nearest opponent does it not? Common sense would say set the ball down and move away..
Monaghan got a free the other night and as the referee was blowing the whistle the player kicked the ball and it went to a Cavan player 20 meters away who had no Monaghan player near him.
He has to run back with the ball and as he was doing it a Monaghan player ran in from the side and boxed the ball out of his hands. The referee then grabbed the ball and sprinted up the field like Usain Bolt to give Monaghan a handy two pointer.
Daft isn't it?
Plenty of daft decisions before rules changed and there will daft decisions with the new ones
Handing the ball back gives an instant advantage to opponents.
What you might see happening is, eg. a player is blown for over carrying , he might be instructed to hit the ground with an "injury" , so the ball can't be handed back. Therefore delaying a quick attack.
Could a referee book or move it forward 50 yards, if the player blown for over carrying is now on the ground injured? Whether real or fake?
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 06:39:16 PMHanding the ball back gives an instant advantage to opponents.
What you might see happening is, eg. a player is blown for over carrying , he might be instructed to hit the ground with an "injury" , so the ball can't be handed back. Therefore delaying a quick attack.
Could a referee book or move it forward 50 yards, if the player blown for over carrying is now on the ground injured? Whether real or fake?
Just on injuries i think they should play on if a player is "injured" and just let the physio on to deal with them. I don't see the point in stopping play everytime some lad decides to lie down holding their head after getting tapped on the shoulder.
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 06:39:16 PMHanding the ball back gives an instant advantage to opponents.
What you might see happening is, eg. a player is blown for over carrying , he might be instructed to hit the ground with an "injury" , so the ball can't be handed back. Therefore delaying a quick attack.
Could a referee book or move it forward 50 yards, if the player blown for over carrying is now on the ground injured? Whether real or fake?
If he goes down 'injured' after he's pulled for over carrying I'm booking him for feigning an injury
Quote from: Cavan19 on January 29, 2025, 07:13:41 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 06:39:16 PMHanding the ball back gives an instant advantage to opponents.
What you might see happening is, eg. a player is blown for over carrying , he might be instructed to hit the ground with an "injury" , so the ball can't be handed back. Therefore delaying a quick attack.
Could a referee book or move it forward 50 yards, if the player blown for over carrying is now on the ground injured? Whether real or fake?
Just on injuries i think they should play on if a player is "injured" and just let the physio on to deal with them. I don't see the point in stopping play everytime some lad decides to lie down holding their head after getting tapped on the shoulder.
The unenforced rule saying if a physio has to come onthen the player must leave the field and re enter at the half way line in the next break in play should come in
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 08:32:12 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 06:39:16 PMHanding the ball back gives an instant advantage to opponents.
What you might see happening is, eg. a player is blown for over carrying , he might be instructed to hit the ground with an "injury" , so the ball can't be handed back. Therefore delaying a quick attack.
Could a referee book or move it forward 50 yards, if the player blown for over carrying is now on the ground injured? Whether real or fake?
If he goes down 'injured' after he's pulled for over carrying I'm booking him for feigning an injury
What if it looks like a head injury? Would you still book him? Surely you have to take a head injury seriously? Whether real or not
Different scenario, but ...remember the Dublin keeper v Sean O'Shea penalty? He was clearly feigning injury, yet wasn't booked.
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 09:36:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 08:32:12 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 06:39:16 PMHanding the ball back gives an instant advantage to opponents.
What you might see happening is, eg. a player is blown for over carrying , he might be instructed to hit the ground with an "injury" , so the ball can't be handed back. Therefore delaying a quick attack.
Could a referee book or move it forward 50 yards, if the player blown for over carrying is now on the ground injured? Whether real or fake?
If he goes down 'injured' after he's pulled for over carrying I'm booking him for feigning an injury
What if it looks like a head injury? Would you still book him? Surely you have to take a head injury seriously? Whether real or not
Different scenario, but ...remember the Dublin keeper v Sean O'Shea penalty? He was clearly feigning injury, yet wasn't booked.
Wise up, but he runs with the ball and all of a sudden has a head injury?
He'll be booked for feigning and being a dick
What is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
Depends, he can get a black card depending on the what's said.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
Quote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:16:39 PMDepends, he can get a black card depending on the what's said.
Hasn't that always been the case since the black card was invented?
Wasn't used half enough.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 09:52:57 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 09:36:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 08:32:12 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 06:39:16 PMHanding the ball back gives an instant advantage to opponents.
What you might see happening is, eg. a player is blown for over carrying , he might be instructed to hit the ground with an "injury" , so the ball can't be handed back. Therefore delaying a quick attack.
Could a referee book or move it forward 50 yards, if the player blown for over carrying is now on the ground injured? Whether real or fake?
If he goes down 'injured' after he's pulled for over carrying I'm booking him for feigning an injury
What if it looks like a head injury? Would you still book him? Surely you have to take a head injury seriously? Whether real or not
Different scenario, but ...remember the Dublin keeper v Sean O'Shea penalty? He was clearly feigning injury, yet wasn't booked.
Wise up, but he runs with the ball and all of a sudden has a head injury?
He'll be booked for feigning and being a dick
Is that the official terminology? ;)
I'm not saying he's going down the wing , nobody near him , blown for overcsrrying, then falls over clutching his head. I'm talking , if he's driving through A number of challenges, close contact .
Or if he goes down with a leg injury in same scenario.
Anyway, the point I'm making is, will a player be penalised For not giving the ball back, if he's laid down injured ?
I'm just seeing how coaches might get around these new rules.
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 10:56:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 09:52:57 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 09:36:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 08:32:12 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on January 29, 2025, 06:39:16 PMHanding the ball back gives an instant advantage to opponents.
What you might see happening is, eg. a player is blown for over carrying , he might be instructed to hit the ground with an "injury" , so the ball can't be handed back. Therefore delaying a quick attack.
Could a referee book or move it forward 50 yards, if the player blown for over carrying is now on the ground injured? Whether real or fake?
If he goes down 'injured' after he's pulled for over carrying I'm booking him for feigning an injury
What if it looks like a head injury? Would you still book him? Surely you have to take a head injury seriously? Whether real or not
Different scenario, but ...remember the Dublin keeper v Sean O'Shea penalty? He was clearly feigning injury, yet wasn't booked.
Wise up, but he runs with the ball and all of a sudden has a head injury?
He'll be booked for feigning and being a dick
Is that the official terminology? ;)
I'm not saying he's going down the wing , nobody near him , blown for overcsrrying, then falls over clutching his head. I'm talking , if he's driving through A number of challenges, close contact .
Or if he goes down with a leg injury in same scenario.
Anyway, the point I'm making is, will a player be penalised For not giving the ball back, if he's laid down injured ?
I'm just seeing how coaches might get around these new rules.
Well if the coach thinks that's going to work I'd be worried about the coach... certainly test how the ref will react but don't be surprised if he books someone for act the dick or maggot
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Are ye booking all yapping or just moving the ball 50m?
The point is there is no real deterrent for gurning at the ref after he has awarded an easy-to-convert free.
Are we to see teams use this opportunity to let off a bit of steam at the referee?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 30, 2025, 05:30:55 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Are ye booking all yapping or just moving the ball 50m?
The point is there is no real deterrent for gurning at the ref after he has awarded an easy-to-convert free.
Are we to see teams use this opportunity to let off a bit of steam at the referee?
The deterrent can only be use of the cards after the initial moving it forward, if I was a manager and my players were constantly doing that I'd personally take them off.
Ref's are only human, if a team or player is doing that to him they'll find it difficult to win those 50/50 calls..
Quote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
Anyone can speak to the referee, but only the captain or a designated outfield player can question a decision
https://x.com/i/status/1884641939590369650 (https://x.com/i/status/1884641939590369650)
https://x.com/i/status/1884641939590369650 (https://x.com/i/status/1884641939590369650)
Is that clear now? :o
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Quote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Giving out, is this not what certain rules are trying to stop ? A change in culture, stopping refs being abused, as has been happening for decades? Players will soon learn, be respectful with all communications to the ref. It'll take time for certain players / sidelines to zip it, verbally abusing the ref is just something they've always done, not anymore
Quote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 08:55:02 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Giving out, is this not what certain rules are trying to stop ? A change in culture, stopping refs being abused, as has been happening for decades? Players will soon learn, be respectful with all communications to the ref. It'll take time for certain players / sidelines to zip it, verbally abusing the ref is just something they've always done, not anymore
This is it.
Those people who choose to unleash fury on referees rarely, if ever, care one f**k about whether it's a good decision or a bad decision, they just don't want this decision or any future decisions going against their team.
Quote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 08:55:02 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Giving out, is this not what certain rules are trying to stop ? A change in culture, stopping refs being abused, as has been happening for decades? Players will soon learn, be respectful with all communications to the ref. It'll take time for certain players / sidelines to zip it, verbally abusing the ref is just something they've always done, not anymore
I'm just thinking of the Errigal Killyclogher semi final where the ref gave a penalty for what looked like nothing. Still not sure what it was given for. Players are inevitably ask questions/complain. I'm not talking about full on abuse. I know there's some refs that would take things the wrong way and in the heat of the moment would give a black card
Quote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 09:14:47 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 08:55:02 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Giving out, is this not what certain rules are trying to stop ? A change in culture, stopping refs being abused, as has been happening for decades? Players will soon learn, be respectful with all communications to the ref. It'll take time for certain players / sidelines to zip it, verbally abusing the ref is just something they've always done, not anymore
I'm just thinking of the Errigal Killyclogher semi final where the ref gave a penalty for what looked like nothing. Still not sure what it was given for. Players are inevitably ask questions/complain. I'm not talking about full on abuse. I know there's some refs that would take things the wrong way and in the heat of the moment would give a black card
Take things the wrong way? 'you're one useless cnut', 'a f**king r3tard'.. Blah blah blah... This is what ref's are currently getting. That's a black, rarely given.
Refs can be questioned, they can't be screamed at and called every useless so and so under the sun
Quote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Quote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
This is the one rule they brought in that I don't actually mind.
However, the part where only a team captain can speak to the ref is unfair. Works in rugby as the players are generally all in the same part of the pitch and a refereeing decision for say a scrum, results in some time required to set up that scrum giving the captain an opportunity to speak to the ref. Football is different. Say the captain is the GK and the foul is against the FF at the other end of the pitch then the captain doesnt have the chance to ask the ref what the decision was for. Even with solo and go, the captain wouldn't get the chance to speak to the ref.
If only they had trialled these rules in a pre-season competition and then adjusted for the league.
TBrick, 2 things.
One is that I think you're taking the "only the captain can talk" thing a little too literally. Referees are human and most of them will happily explain / chat with anyone in a reasonable manner.
I think you would be better considering the rulee more along the lines of "only the captain can protest".
Which brings me onto the second point. If you really feel a team needs the ability to protest the referee in all 4 corners of the field, then you're not getting on board with this concept at all. Those who feel it's a natural thing to roar expletives as a man making 50:50 decisions, are the ones being brought to bear here. And it has to be done. Because how we currently treat officials is parasitical.
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 30, 2025, 11:23:15 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
This is the one rule they brought in that I don't actually mind.
However, the part where only a team captain can speak to the ref is unfair. Works in rugby as the players are generally all in the same part of the pitch and a refereeing decision for say a scrum, results in some time required to set up that scrum giving the captain an opportunity to speak to the ref. Football is different. Say the captain is the GK and the foul is against the FF at the other end of the pitch then the captain doesnt have the chance to ask the ref what the decision was for. Even with solo and go, the captain wouldn't get the chance to speak to the ref.
If only they had trialled these rules in a pre-season competition and then adjusted for the league.
Any player can speak to the ref tbrick, in a civilised manner. Captain / spokesperson can question decisions, again in a civilised manner
All eyes on Kilkenny club football .....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41564533.html
Quote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 09:36:31 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 09:14:47 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 08:55:02 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Giving out, is this not what certain rules are trying to stop ? A change in culture, stopping refs being abused, as has been happening for decades? Players will soon learn, be respectful with all communications to the ref. It'll take time for certain players / sidelines to zip it, verbally abusing the ref is just something they've always done, not anymore
I'm just thinking of the Errigal Killyclogher semi final where the ref gave a penalty for what looked like nothing. Still not sure what it was given for. Players are inevitably ask questions/complain. I'm not talking about full on abuse. I know there's some refs that would take things the wrong way and in the heat of the moment would give a black card
Take things the wrong way? 'you're one useless cnut', 'a f**king r3tard'.. Blah blah blah... This is what ref's are currently getting. That's a black, rarely given.
Refs can be questioned, they can't be screamed at and called every useless so and so under the sun
That's why I said I'm not talking about full on abuse
Quote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2025, 11:36:51 AMAll eyes on Kilkenny club football .....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41564533.html
31 club football teams and you lads say they don't promote football!
Quote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Well obviously, but if a player gets a totally incorrect call given, it's natural to say "aw ref he pulled my arm" or "ref what was that for?" Without screaming abuse or effing and blinding at the ref. Harsh to get a free moved 50m and concede a handy 2 pointer for that.
Doubt many would be complaining if refs moved frees up and carded people who screamed abuse.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 02:01:09 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Well obviously, but if a player gets a totally incorrect call given, it's natural to say "aw ref he pulled my arm" or "ref what was that for?" Without screaming abuse or effing and blinding at the ref. Harsh to get a free moved 50m and concede a handy 2 pointer for that.
Doubt many would be complaining if refs moved frees up and carded people who screamed abuse.
Players aren't independent. So their view are subjective. If you allow a little, the line will always get pushed as players try to find boundaries. If they know they can't say anything, they'll soon get used to it.
Having been to a few challenge games the penalty for players mouthing is working perfectly.
The referees job will in time (once the rules are embedded) be a much more pleasant job and hopefully we see the volume of refs increase across the country
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 30, 2025, 02:27:09 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 02:01:09 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Well obviously, but if a player gets a totally incorrect call given, it's natural to say "aw ref he pulled my arm" or "ref what was that for?" Without screaming abuse or effing and blinding at the ref. Harsh to get a free moved 50m and concede a handy 2 pointer for that.
Doubt many would be complaining if refs moved frees up and carded people who screamed abuse.
Players aren't independent. So their view are subjective. If you allow a little, the line will always get pushed as players try to find boundaries. If they know they can't say anything, they'll soon get used to it.
Yeah fair enough, will take some getting used to though but be good in the long run. Think refs need to be clearer and communicate better with players though about why a call was made, obviously some do this very well but some don't.
When the ref blows his whistle, he'll either tell what's it's for or make an action of either tugged jersey, a push, too many steps, pulled arm depending on the foul..
Players don't need chapter and verse on it, how would the players or managers react it the ref ridicules their shots, or passes, or tactics during the game? While I may have those thoughts in the game I never say it. Not sure why it's any different.
Wonder if it will be possible to yap a ball over the bar. Like, yap her up to the 13. Then another boy yaps and the ref says any more yapping and it's yapped over the bar. Then someone yaps, and the ref yaps her over the bar. Another yap and it's a penalty, and if that's followed by another yap it's yapped into the net. Then the Irish News can say Turbitt 0-4, Campbell 0-4, Yapping 1-1. They'd have to define yapping though.
Hello rian welcome to the board!!
Quote from: ONeill on January 30, 2025, 10:21:06 PMWonder if it will be possible to yap a ball over the bar. Like, yap her up to the 13. Then another boy yaps and the ref says any more yapping and it's yapped over the bar. Then someone yaps, and the ref yaps her over the bar. Another yap and it's a penalty, and if that's followed by another yap it's yapped into the net. Then the Irish News can say Turbitt 0-4, Campbell 0-4, Yapping 1-1. They'd have to define yapping though.
Yapping worth sticking a few quid on for poty then? :D
Quote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2025, 01:48:38 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2025, 11:36:51 AMAll eyes on Kilkenny club football .....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41564533.html
31 club football teams and you lads say they don't promote football!
Lost a bit of respect for them hearing they've that many clubs.
Watched a schools hurling match between St Kierans and Kilkenny CBS (brilliant match btw) and Nowlan Park didn't even have 40m arcs drawn on the pitch. Thought to myself wonder how long before they ever have to draw the arcs on.
Quote from: SaffronSports on January 31, 2025, 01:17:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2025, 01:48:38 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2025, 11:36:51 AMAll eyes on Kilkenny club football .....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41564533.html
31 club football teams and you lads say they don't promote football!
Lost a bit of respect for them hearing they've that many clubs.
Watched a schools hurling match between St Kierans and Kilkenny CBS (brilliant match btw) and Nowlan Park didn't even have 40m arcs drawn on the pitch. Thought to myself wonder how long before they ever have to draw the arcs on.
Loughgiel don't have arcs on them neither Cushendall nor do they have 45's,
At some point they will, it's sticks in peoples throats why they don't have the effort in football at county level.. could say the same for lots of counties in Ireland for their minimal effort shown to Hurling
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2025, 07:35:20 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on January 31, 2025, 01:17:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2025, 01:48:38 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2025, 11:36:51 AMAll eyes on Kilkenny club football .....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41564533.html
31 club football teams and you lads say they don't promote football!
Lost a bit of respect for them hearing they've that many clubs.
Watched a schools hurling match between St Kierans and Kilkenny CBS (brilliant match btw) and Nowlan Park didn't even have 40m arcs drawn on the pitch. Thought to myself wonder how long before they ever have to draw the arcs on.
Loughgiel don't have arcs on them neither Cushendall nor do they have 45's,
At some point they will, it's sticks in peoples throats why they don't have the effort in football at county level.. could say the same for lots of counties in Ireland for their minimal effort shown to Hurling
Where do the Cushendall camogs play out of?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 30, 2025, 02:27:09 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 02:01:09 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Well obviously, but if a player gets a totally incorrect call given, it's natural to say "aw ref he pulled my arm" or "ref what was that for?" Without screaming abuse or effing and blinding at the ref. Harsh to get a free moved 50m and concede a handy 2 pointer for that.
Doubt many would be complaining if refs moved frees up and carded people who screamed abuse.
Players aren't independent. So their view are subjective. If you allow a little, the line will always get pushed as players try to find boundaries. If they know they can't say anything, they'll soon get used to it.
Are you saying that players shouldn't be able to question a decision at all? Heard a few people say thisand I don't understand it. The ref will never overturn his decision (unless another official has a word) but it would still be good for players to know what the thought process was
Quote from: johnnycool on January 31, 2025, 07:57:57 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2025, 07:35:20 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on January 31, 2025, 01:17:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2025, 01:48:38 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2025, 11:36:51 AMAll eyes on Kilkenny club football .....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41564533.html
31 club football teams and you lads say they don't promote football!
Lost a bit of respect for them hearing they've that many clubs.
Watched a schools hurling match between St Kierans and Kilkenny CBS (brilliant match btw) and Nowlan Park didn't even have 40m arcs drawn on the pitch. Thought to myself wonder how long before they ever have to draw the arcs on.
Loughgiel don't have arcs on them neither Cushendall nor do they have 45's,
At some point they will, it's sticks in peoples throats why they don't have the effort in football at county level.. could say the same for lots of counties in Ireland for their minimal effort shown to Hurling
Where do the Cushendall camogs play out of?
Not sure, but I always chuckle when I see no 45's
Quote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:30:09 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 30, 2025, 11:23:15 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
This is the one rule they brought in that I don't actually mind.
However, the part where only a team captain can speak to the ref is unfair. Works in rugby as the players are generally all in the same part of the pitch and a refereeing decision for say a scrum, results in some time required to set up that scrum giving the captain an opportunity to speak to the ref. Football is different. Say the captain is the GK and the foul is against the FF at the other end of the pitch then the captain doesnt have the chance to ask the ref what the decision was for. Even with solo and go, the captain wouldn't get the chance to speak to the ref.
If only they had trialled these rules in a pre-season competition and then adjusted for the league.
Any player can speak to the ref tbrick, in a civilised manner. Captain / spokesperson can question decisions, again in a civilised manner
Once again my misunderstanding of the new rules!
So really it's a rule against dissent - which I have no issue with at all.
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 31, 2025, 10:20:08 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:30:09 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 30, 2025, 11:23:15 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
This is the one rule they brought in that I don't actually mind.
However, the part where only a team captain can speak to the ref is unfair. Works in rugby as the players are generally all in the same part of the pitch and a refereeing decision for say a scrum, results in some time required to set up that scrum giving the captain an opportunity to speak to the ref. Football is different. Say the captain is the GK and the foul is against the FF at the other end of the pitch then the captain doesnt have the chance to ask the ref what the decision was for. Even with solo and go, the captain wouldn't get the chance to speak to the ref.
If only they had trialled these rules in a pre-season competition and then adjusted for the league.
Any player can speak to the ref tbrick, in a civilised manner. Captain / spokesperson can question decisions, again in a civilised manner
Once again my misunderstanding of the new rules!
So really it's a rule against dissent - which I have no issue with at all.
That's it.. Wondering how things will be this time next year after a full season of the new rules. I was speaking with a reg during the week who had decided to hang up the whistle, but is going to give it another rattle this year
Quote from: JoG2 on January 31, 2025, 10:46:33 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 31, 2025, 10:20:08 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:30:09 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 30, 2025, 11:23:15 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
This is the one rule they brought in that I don't actually mind.
However, the part where only a team captain can speak to the ref is unfair. Works in rugby as the players are generally all in the same part of the pitch and a refereeing decision for say a scrum, results in some time required to set up that scrum giving the captain an opportunity to speak to the ref. Football is different. Say the captain is the GK and the foul is against the FF at the other end of the pitch then the captain doesnt have the chance to ask the ref what the decision was for. Even with solo and go, the captain wouldn't get the chance to speak to the ref.
If only they had trialled these rules in a pre-season competition and then adjusted for the league.
Any player can speak to the ref tbrick, in a civilised manner. Captain / spokesperson can question decisions, again in a civilised manner
Once again my misunderstanding of the new rules!
So really it's a rule against dissent - which I have no issue with at all.
That's it.. Wondering how things will be this time next year after a full season of the new rules. I was speaking with a reg during the week who had decided to hang up the whistle, but is going to give it another rattle this year
Probably wants to put some manners on people ;) ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2025, 07:35:20 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on January 31, 2025, 01:17:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2025, 01:48:38 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 30, 2025, 11:36:51 AMAll eyes on Kilkenny club football .....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41564533.html
31 club football teams and you lads say they don't promote football!
Lost a bit of respect for them hearing they've that many clubs.
Watched a schools hurling match between St Kierans and Kilkenny CBS (brilliant match btw) and Nowlan Park didn't even have 40m arcs drawn on the pitch. Thought to myself wonder how long before they ever have to draw the arcs on.
Loughgiel don't have arcs on them neither Cushendall nor do they have 45's,
At some point they will, it's sticks in peoples throats why they don't have the effort in football at county level.. could say the same for lots of counties in Ireland for their minimal effort shown to Hurling
We were at a ladies football match last season in Glenavy I Think it was and they didn't have 65s on the pitch.
I've never noticed the lack of 45s in Cushendall but I would have thought they'd be on for the camogs. I do remember kicking a ball about with my daughter there one day and a lad "joked" balls with air in them are banned on this pitch.
There's a Loughgiel team photo from the 80s where they played a football match so they must have played some football once ;D Cushendall I don't think would have it about the place.
It seems the same down the Ards peninsula. Anyone ever try starting football up in any of those clubs JC?
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 31, 2025, 12:21:24 PMThere's a Loughgiel team photo from the 80s where they played a football match so they must have played some football once ;D Cushendall I don't think would have it about the place.
It seems the same down the Ards peninsula. Anyone ever try starting football up in any of those clubs JC?
Played Soccer a load of years ago in Kircubben and few Crans lads played ball
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2025, 11:41:52 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 31, 2025, 10:46:33 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 31, 2025, 10:20:08 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:30:09 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 30, 2025, 11:23:15 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
This is the one rule they brought in that I don't actually mind.
However, the part where only a team captain can speak to the ref is unfair. Works in rugby as the players are generally all in the same part of the pitch and a refereeing decision for say a scrum, results in some time required to set up that scrum giving the captain an opportunity to speak to the ref. Football is different. Say the captain is the GK and the foul is against the FF at the other end of the pitch then the captain doesnt have the chance to ask the ref what the decision was for. Even with solo and go, the captain wouldn't get the chance to speak to the ref.
If only they had trialled these rules in a pre-season competition and then adjusted for the league.
Any player can speak to the ref tbrick, in a civilised manner. Captain / spokesperson can question decisions, again in a civilised manner
Once again my misunderstanding of the new rules!
So really it's a rule against dissent - which I have no issue with at all.
That's it.. Wondering how things will be this time next year after a full season of the new rules. I was speaking with a reg during the week who had decided to hang up the whistle, but is going to give it another rattle this year
Probably wants to put some manners on people ;) ;D
Revenge.... In all seriousness, he was so sick of the abuse. But, as Derry is so short on good blowers, and with the new rules (willing to give it a go), 1 more for the road
Quote from: JoG2 on January 31, 2025, 01:54:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2025, 11:41:52 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 31, 2025, 10:46:33 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 31, 2025, 10:20:08 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:30:09 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on January 30, 2025, 11:23:15 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
This is the one rule they brought in that I don't actually mind.
However, the part where only a team captain can speak to the ref is unfair. Works in rugby as the players are generally all in the same part of the pitch and a refereeing decision for say a scrum, results in some time required to set up that scrum giving the captain an opportunity to speak to the ref. Football is different. Say the captain is the GK and the foul is against the FF at the other end of the pitch then the captain doesnt have the chance to ask the ref what the decision was for. Even with solo and go, the captain wouldn't get the chance to speak to the ref.
If only they had trialled these rules in a pre-season competition and then adjusted for the league.
Any player can speak to the ref tbrick, in a civilised manner. Captain / spokesperson can question decisions, again in a civilised manner
Once again my misunderstanding of the new rules!
So really it's a rule against dissent - which I have no issue with at all.
That's it.. Wondering how things will be this time next year after a full season of the new rules. I was speaking with a reg during the week who had decided to hang up the whistle, but is going to give it another rattle this year
Probably wants to put some manners on people ;) ;D
Revenge.... In all seriousness, he was so sick of the abuse. But, as Derry is so short on good blowers, and with the new rules (willing to give it a go), 1 more for the road
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 11:31:13 PMQuote from: ONeill on January 30, 2025, 10:21:06 PMWonder if it will be possible to yap a ball over the bar. Like, yap her up to the 13. Then another boy yaps and the ref says any more yapping and it's yapped over the bar. Then someone yaps, and the ref yaps her over the bar. Another yap and it's a penalty, and if that's followed by another yap it's yapped into the net. Then the Irish News can say Turbitt 0-4, Campbell 0-4, Yapping 1-1. They'd have to define yapping though.
Yapping worth sticking a few quid on for poty then? :D
The odds would probably be short enough, but i can see him yapping a poty after the amount of points he yaps over the bar this season. It just depends if the ref tries to keep yapping.
what if when they are picking the all stars and yapping goes in corner forward, what team does yap go into. Hed prob have yapped alot against the yappers of tyrone but what team is he from. Will they add up all the Yaps and divide by yap??
Quote from: Magpie22 on January 31, 2025, 02:54:39 PMwhat if when they are picking the all stars and yapping goes in corner forward, what team does yap go into. Hed prob have yapped alot against the yappers of tyrone but what team is he from. Will they add up all the Yaps and divide by yap??
Id say without a doubt they will be in the team but it just depends if the average yaps exceeds the amount of yapping the tyrone yappers yap.
At this point I think we need to split yap, winning way too much yapping lately
Quote from: thebigfullforward on January 31, 2025, 08:26:47 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on January 30, 2025, 02:27:09 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 02:01:09 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Well obviously, but if a player gets a totally incorrect call given, it's natural to say "aw ref he pulled my arm" or "ref what was that for?" Without screaming abuse or effing and blinding at the ref. Harsh to get a free moved 50m and concede a handy 2 pointer for that.
Doubt many would be complaining if refs moved frees up and carded people who screamed abuse.
Players aren't independent. So their view are subjective. If you allow a little, the line will always get pushed as players try to find boundaries. If they know they can't say anything, they'll soon get used to it.
Are you saying that players shouldn't be able to question a decision at all? Heard a few people say thisand I don't understand it. The ref will never overturn his decision (unless another official has a word) but it would still be good for players to know what the thought process was
I'd say they can ask what foul was for but not to question that decision. As mentioned, most refs will signal or say what foul is for. If not, I don't think there would be an issue with asking what it was for, as long as done in a respectful way. But if followed up with the usual "no way ref" or "ffs ref, never a free" then you'll be open to punishment.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2025, 10:28:17 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 31, 2025, 08:26:47 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on January 30, 2025, 02:27:09 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 02:01:09 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Well obviously, but if a player gets a totally incorrect call given, it's natural to say "aw ref he pulled my arm" or "ref what was that for?" Without screaming abuse or effing and blinding at the ref. Harsh to get a free moved 50m and concede a handy 2 pointer for that.
Doubt many would be complaining if refs moved frees up and carded people who screamed abuse.
Players aren't independent. So their view are subjective. If you allow a little, the line will always get pushed as players try to find boundaries. If they know they can't say anything, they'll soon get used to it.
Are you saying that players shouldn't be able to question a decision at all? Heard a few people say thisand I don't understand it. The ref will never overturn his decision (unless another official has a word) but it would still be good for players to know what the thought process was
I'd say they can ask what foul was for but not to question that decision. As mentioned, most refs will signal or say what foul is for. If not, I don't think there would be an issue with asking what it was for, as long as done in a respectful way. But if followed up with the usual "no way ref" or "ffs ref, never a free" then you'll be open to punishment.
Is that punishment the same for doing it on the opposition's 65 as it is on your own 13m line?
Because one sees a nothing free way out the field turned into a very scoreable one and the other sees a blind man's gimme remain a blind man's gimme.
If I were to have reason to criticise the referee's performance, I know what I would be saving it for.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 31, 2025, 10:41:10 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2025, 10:28:17 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 31, 2025, 08:26:47 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on January 30, 2025, 02:27:09 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 02:01:09 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Well obviously, but if a player gets a totally incorrect call given, it's natural to say "aw ref he pulled my arm" or "ref what was that for?" Without screaming abuse or effing and blinding at the ref. Harsh to get a free moved 50m and concede a handy 2 pointer for that.
Doubt many would be complaining if refs moved frees up and carded people who screamed abuse.
Players aren't independent. So their view are subjective. If you allow a little, the line will always get pushed as players try to find boundaries. If they know they can't say anything, they'll soon get used to it.
Are you saying that players shouldn't be able to question a decision at all? Heard a few people say thisand I don't understand it. The ref will never overturn his decision (unless another official has a word) but it would still be good for players to know what the thought process was
I'd say they can ask what foul was for but not to question that decision. As mentioned, most refs will signal or say what foul is for. If not, I don't think there would be an issue with asking what it was for, as long as done in a respectful way. But if followed up with the usual "no way ref" or "ffs ref, never a free" then you'll be open to punishment.
Is that punishment the same for doing it on the opposition's 65 as it is on your own 13m line?
Because one sees a nothing free way out the field turned into a very scoreable one and the other sees a blind man's gimme remain a blind man's gimme.
If I were to have reason to criticise the referee's performance, I know what I would be saving it for.
For obviously getting things wrong? As would any supporter
People don't criticise referees for getting things wrong. They criticise them for not giving them their way. As you should know.
If anyone is to choose when to do that, it will be when the referee can do the least about it.
It's a question the referees need to be asking the rule makers - how are you protecting us from having our decisions criticised when it's already a handy free?
Yellow/black cards
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 31, 2025, 10:41:10 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on January 31, 2025, 10:28:17 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 31, 2025, 08:26:47 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on January 30, 2025, 02:27:09 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 02:01:09 PMQuote from: JoG2 on January 30, 2025, 11:07:05 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 30, 2025, 09:43:41 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on January 30, 2025, 08:45:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2025, 10:35:23 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 10:24:28 PMQuote from: jay110 on January 29, 2025, 10:22:13 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 29, 2025, 09:53:57 PMWhat is the punishment for yapping at the ref for giving a free against you?
50 metres forward I'm pretty sure, only the team captain can speak to the ref
What if it's a 13m tap over free?
Move to in front of the goal on the 13, if he's yapping, book him or depending on what's coming out black card him.
Unfortunately shooting them wasn't brought in this time
The black card for yapping needs a bit more content than the regular gurning in fairness
I've used it a few times
Seems harsh if the player is giving out about a genuinely bad decision
Is surely, but even if the player is right, I'm yet to see a ref change is mind after being given out to.
It's not harsh. What is harsh is for players to be constantly screaming at someone trying to ref a game of football.
The days of players and management verbally abusing a ref all game will hopefully be in the rear view mirror.. This is a good thing unless you've a real want in you
Well obviously, but if a player gets a totally incorrect call given, it's natural to say "aw ref he pulled my arm" or "ref what was that for?" Without screaming abuse or effing and blinding at the ref. Harsh to get a free moved 50m and concede a handy 2 pointer for that.
Doubt many would be complaining if refs moved frees up and carded people who screamed abuse.
Players aren't independent. So their view are subjective. If you allow a little, the line will always get pushed as players try to find boundaries. If they know they can't say anything, they'll soon get used to it.
Are you saying that players shouldn't be able to question a decision at all? Heard a few people say thisand I don't understand it. The ref will never overturn his decision (unless another official has a word) but it would still be good for players to know what the thought process was
I'd say they can ask what foul was for but not to question that decision. As mentioned, most refs will signal or say what foul is for. If not, I don't think there would be an issue with asking what it was for, as long as done in a respectful way. But if followed up with the usual "no way ref" or "ffs ref, never a free" then you'll be open to punishment.
Is that punishment the same for doing it on the opposition's 65 as it is on your own 13m line?
Because one sees a nothing free way out the field turned into a very scoreable one and the other sees a blind man's gimme remain a blind man's gimme.
If I were to have reason to criticise the referee's performance, I know what I would be saving it for.
That's a Fair point. To follow in the nature of the rule changes Let's give 2 points to any frees within the 50. 3 if against the wind.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 31, 2025, 11:19:58 PMYellow/black cards
That's possible but it needs to be a rule that's nailed down, rather than left to the referee.
As far as I'm seeing, punishment for dissent is just moving the ball forward. When does the ref decide that's not enough? 35, 25 15m?
Our rulebook has been too vague and many things should be rewritten. The least we can do is have the new rules tight.
What's the ruling on giving the ref a dirty look or giving them the fingers?
Can you mime a yap and get away with it?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 31, 2025, 11:30:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 31, 2025, 11:19:58 PMYellow/black cards
That's possible but it needs to be a rule that's nailed down, rather than left to the referee.
As far as I'm seeing, punishment for dissent is just moving the ball forward. When does the ref decide that's not enough? 35, 25 15m?
Our rulebook has been too vague and many things should be rewritten. The least we can do is have the new rules tight.
The wording has always been up for debate but yellow cards and black cards are not used enough to stamp out or differentiate from what is normal annoyance from a free given against you, and completely taking the piss and abusing you.
It's when you put yourself in that position rather than from the sidelines on pitch or behind the fence that you can then make judgements on how you would decide what is being said, tonality and intent before making that call..
Some ref's are more or less tolerant
We aren't talking about players abusing referees.
We are talking about players complaining about decisions out the field being punished severely and players complaining about 13m frees not being punished at all (because it can't be moved any further).
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 31, 2025, 11:50:38 PMWe aren't talking about players abusing referees.
We are talking about players complaining about decisions out the field being punished severely and players complaining about 13m frees not being punished at all.
So what are you looking?
Referee's decisions not to be questioned anywhere on the field.
"Complaining about an awarded free within the arc is a penalty. Complaining about a penalty is a black card."
Would sort it I guess.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 31, 2025, 11:56:56 PMReferee's decisions not to be questioned anywhere on the field.
"Complaining about an awarded free within the arc is a penalty. Complaining about a penalty is a black card."
Would sort it I guess.
That's comparable i suppose with the difference of a 2 pointer from moving a ball from midfield to the 40
I think serious flash point that may change a game, it be nice if the ref explained his decision after the game. Say the Ballinderry penalty incident for example. Player does wrong or send off can get suspended/appeal etc, but we not allowed to query games changing events. The shit show with Crokes and Glen comes to mind from 2yrs ago too.
I suppose if a penalty seems too harsh - "Dissent of a free awarded inside the arc is a 13m free worth 2 points. Dissent of a penalty is a black card."
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 01, 2025, 12:03:13 AMI think serious flash point that may change a game, it be nice if the ref explained his decision after the game. Say the Ballinderry penalty incident for example. Player does wrong or send off can get suspended/appeal etc, but we not allowed to query games changing events. The shit show with Crokes and Glen comes to mind from 2yrs ago too.
So after all the games you're looking the ref to speak to someone? Is that just important games or all games?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 01, 2025, 12:03:13 AMI think serious flash point that may change a game, it be nice if the ref explained his decision after the game. Say the Ballinderry penalty incident for example. Player does wrong or send off can get suspended/appeal etc, but we not allowed to query games changing events. The shit show with Crokes and Glen comes to mind from 2yrs ago too.
Are we asking everyone who makes a mistake in a game to publicly address it?
"Why did you not pass it to the man inside?"
Refs should get more ruthless. Anyone even looking sideward at him/her should be a miming yap over the bar.
You get explanations for decisions in Rugby.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 01, 2025, 12:16:14 AMYou get explanations for decisions in Rugby.
All ref's explain why the free is given, either by physical gestures or they voice the reason.
I'm not sure what else they should do, but 99 times out of a hundred the free is self explanatory.
Ridiculous carry on having no rule book going into round 2 of the league, HQ couldn't wait to push in these new rules.
Quote"We don't understand how it hasn't been picked up that we're going into Round 2 and we don't have a rule book..."
Spoke to a "horrified" David Gough earlier about the implementation of Gaelic football's new rules from a referee's standpoint
https://x.com/EoinSheahan/status/1885378131399205290
There is a rule book, just new amendments to it. Would be completely foolish to produce a new rule book only for some of the rules to be dumped, then produce another one?
People be on Twitter complaining about how stupid it was to produce a rule book only to scrap it to make another...
People love complaining
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 01, 2025, 02:40:03 PMRidiculous carry on having no rule book going into round 2 of the league, HQ couldn't wait to push in these new rules.
Quote"We don't understand how it hasn't been picked up that we're going into Round 2 and we don't have a rule book..."
Spoke to a "horrified" David Gough earlier about the implementation of Gaelic football's new rules from a referee's standpoint
https://x.com/EoinSheahan/status/1885378131399205290
The strangest thing of all about the new rules (apart from not implementing a back court rule, and apart from making keepers into quasi-heroes), is that they didn't spend this year rolling out isolated rules and groups of rules in senior club leagues, and observing what worked in isolation, and in groups.
Those senior leagues means the GAA has the perfect chemistry lab for experimenting with rules. But instead they went straight for mass vaccination with a cocktail of anything they could lay their hands on, with pretty much zero understanding of the likelihood of side effects and cross contamination.
Honestly I don't think anyone will know if / what is helping until a bunch of rules are put on hold.
Some of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
What a sickener for Longford - one point up away to Tipp and lose to a 2-pointer in injury time.
Scrap this awful 2-pointer !
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
Restricting the number of hand passes to as trialled and it was awful. You spend your entire game counting and then the crowd on mass shouting kick it ! Kick it ! 2 metre kick passes wasn't a great look
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:34 PMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
The keeper not allowed on the ball in their own half is the best of the new rules imo
Quote from: JoG2 on February 01, 2025, 04:54:26 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:34 PMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
The keeper not allowed on the ball in their own half is the best of the new rules imo
Hadn't heard that rule, you're saying the keeper isn't allowed to save any shots?
Quote from: lenny on February 01, 2025, 06:00:25 PMQuote from: JoG2 on February 01, 2025, 04:54:26 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:34 PMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
The keeper not allowed on the ball in their own half is the best of the new rules imo
Hadn't heard that rule, you're saying the keeper isn't allowed to save any shots?
You're here all week I hear Lenny
"I suppose the best thing for me is we've a positive PR machine behind it now instead of all the clowns on TV telling us how great they were and how bad everybody else is now. I'm delighted with that."
Kieran McGeeney aims a broadside at the game's critics as Armagh ease to win over Tyrone
Geezer in the Irish News. Feck I love that man!
Quote from: JoG2 on February 01, 2025, 04:54:26 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:34 PMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
The keeper not allowed on the ball in their own half is the best of the new rules imo
I think that's easily the worst rule that rewards tactical fouling and allows the team who are attacking that half to have a numerical advantage in trying to win the ball back. Particularly punishing in windy conditions
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 09:14:21 AMQuote from: JoG2 on February 01, 2025, 04:54:26 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:34 PMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
The keeper not allowed on the ball in their own half is the best of the new rules imo
I think that's easily the worst rule that rewards tactical fouling and allows the team who are attacking that half to have a numerical advantage in trying to win the ball back. Particularly punishing in windy conditions
It stops the numerical advantage we've seen the last decade or so, crab football with the keeper as the link man at the back, it's brutal
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 09:14:21 AMQuote from: JoG2 on February 01, 2025, 04:54:26 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:34 PMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
The keeper not allowed on the ball in their own half is the best of the new rules imo
I think that's easily the worst rule that rewards tactical fouling and allows the team who are attacking that half to have a numerical advantage in trying to win the ball back. Particularly punishing in windy conditions
Shouldnt the tap and go eliminate that?
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 02, 2025, 11:13:05 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 09:14:21 AMQuote from: JoG2 on February 01, 2025, 04:54:26 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:34 PMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
The keeper not allowed on the ball in their own half is the best of the new rules imo
I think that's easily the worst rule that rewards tactical fouling and allows the team who are attacking that half to have a numerical advantage in trying to win the ball back. Particularly punishing in windy conditions
Shouldnt the tap and go eliminate that?
It does to a degree but the tap and go isnt particularly useful if for example the fouled player has been hurt or a card has been produced. Also you cant run backwards on a solo and go so theres a clear advantage created by the fouling team
Quote from: JoG2 on February 02, 2025, 11:02:16 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 09:14:21 AMQuote from: JoG2 on February 01, 2025, 04:54:26 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:34 PMQuote from: The Boy Wonder on February 01, 2025, 04:04:59 PMSome of these new rules are radically changing the game and not for the better. Up to recent years the main problem was the definition of the tackle. Today's game sees far less tackling and body contact.
A few simple rules changes would work far better
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive hand passes
• award free against a team for more than 2 successive back passes
• restrict goalkeepers to their own parallelogram.
GAA FRC Rules Survey (https://www.gaa.ie/article/gaa-public-can-give-feedback-on-frc-rules-through-open-online-survey)
No idea what the obsession is about restricting the keeper. Let teams do what they want. It adds excitement as a mistake can lead to a goal. If you take away any potential tactical advantage a team has then it simply becomes a game where the team with the better players always win.
In my opinion only changes required were better definition of the tackle and more consistency in application the rules by the ref. Also gaa need to invest in better coaching so that young managers come up with their own tactics rather than 15 behind the ball at all times.
The keeper not allowed on the ball in their own half is the best of the new rules imo
I think that's easily the worst rule that rewards tactical fouling and allows the team who are attacking that half to have a numerical advantage in trying to win the ball back. Particularly punishing in windy conditions
It stops the numerical advantage we've seen the last decade or so, crab football with the keeper as the link man at the back, it's brutal
At least under the old rules teams could stop the numerical advantage albeit that wouldn't have necessarily been a good idea. Its replaced it with a numerical advantage the other way that cant be prevented and punishes the team fouled. Weve seen a good few examples already of teams being punished for being fouled.
New rules have been a tonic. Mite need the odd tweak but a new dawn afterthe worst era of Gaelic football I can remember.. and that goes back a long way. Well done to the committee for the foresight to address the mess.
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:42:35 PMNew rules have been a tonic. Mite need the odd tweak but a new dawn afterthe worst era of Gaelic football I can remember.. and that goes back a long way. Well done to the committee for the foresight to address the mess.
They really have divided opinion it seems
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:42:35 PMNew rules have been a tonic. Mite need the odd tweak but a new dawn afterthe worst era of Gaelic football I can remember.. and that goes back a long way. Well done to the committee for the foresight to address the mess.
Let's see how that tonic flies come the club games lol
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 05:50:19 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:42:35 PMNew rules have been a tonic. Mite need the odd tweak but a new dawn afterthe worst era of Gaelic football I can remember.. and that goes back a long way. Well done to the committee for the foresight to address the mess.
They really have divided opinion it seems
You can't say it's worsened things. It couldn't possibly! Response I've seen is overwhelmingly positive albeit call for some tweaks
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:55:00 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 05:50:19 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:42:35 PMNew rules have been a tonic. Mite need the odd tweak but a new dawn afterthe worst era of Gaelic football I can remember.. and that goes back a long way. Well done to the committee for the foresight to address the mess.
They really have divided opinion it seems
You can't say it's worsened things. It couldn't possibly! Response I've seen is overwhelmingly positive albeit call for some tweaks
I dont think its improved things in anyway. Responses Ive seen have been entirely mixed. Theres some elements of some rules I like but the majority I do not
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 05:58:53 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:55:00 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 05:50:19 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:42:35 PMNew rules have been a tonic. Mite need the odd tweak but a new dawn afterthe worst era of Gaelic football I can remember.. and that goes back a long way. Well done to the committee for the foresight to address the mess.
They really have divided opinion it seems
You can't say it's worsened things. It couldn't possibly! Response I've seen is overwhelmingly positive albeit call for some tweaks
I dont think its improved things in anyway. Responses Ive seen have been entirely mixed. Theres some elements of some rules I like but the majority I do not
Guess what!... there'll be no going back to that sh*tshow of the last number of years.. caused by coaches who couldn't care less bout the state of the game.
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 06:06:06 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 05:58:53 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:55:00 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 05:50:19 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:42:35 PMNew rules have been a tonic. Mite need the odd tweak but a new dawn afterthe worst era of Gaelic football I can remember.. and that goes back a long way. Well done to the committee for the foresight to address the mess.
They really have divided opinion it seems
You can't say it's worsened things. It couldn't possibly! Response I've seen is overwhelmingly positive albeit call for some tweaks
I dont think its improved things in anyway. Responses Ive seen have been entirely mixed. Theres some elements of some rules I like but the majority I do not
Guess what!... there'll be no going back to that sh*tshow of the last number of years.. caused by coaches who couldn't care less bout the state of the game.
I don't accept it was a shit show. But I'll give the new rules more time to develop before making a final determination on them.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 06:12:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 06:06:06 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 05:58:53 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:55:00 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2025, 05:50:19 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 02, 2025, 05:42:35 PMNew rules have been a tonic. Mite need the odd tweak but a new dawn afterthe worst era of Gaelic football I can remember.. and that goes back a long way. Well done to the committee for the foresight to address the mess.
They really have divided opinion it seems
You can't say it's worsened things. It couldn't possibly! Response I've seen is overwhelmingly positive albeit call for some tweaks
I dont think its improved things in anyway. Responses Ive seen have been entirely mixed. Theres some elements of some rules I like but the majority I do not
Guess what!... there'll be no going back to that sh*tshow of the last number of years.. caused by coaches who couldn't care less bout the state of the game.
I don't accept it was a shit show. But I'll give the new rules more time to develop before making a final determination on them.
Last 5 minutes of games got exciting!
2024 All Ireland final first half.. first time I nodded off watching it on TV #true an endurance test. Last 10 minutes was good. .
Do only certain games, televised ones, operate the hooter after 35/70 mins?
Quote from: maldini on February 02, 2025, 11:15:26 PMDo only certain games, televised ones, operate the hooter after 35/70 mins?
Yes, only certain grounds. Seen the hooter man leaving CP today with a big box of about half a dozen hooters. I'd say they'll be part of all county grounds stock in the next few months.
Quote from: maldini on February 02, 2025, 11:15:26 PMDo only certain games, televised ones, operate the hooter after 35/70 mins?
I thought it was Division 1 and maybe 2 only at the minute. All grounds must also have a visible clock by end of March
Quote from: JoG2 on February 02, 2025, 11:27:26 PMQuote from: maldini on February 02, 2025, 11:15:26 PMDo only certain games, televised ones, operate the hooter after 35/70 mins?
Yes, only certain grounds. Seen the hooter man leaving CP today with a big box of about half a dozen hooters. I'd say they'll be part of all county grounds stock in the next few months.
Only division one at the moment.
I'm personally not a fan of how it's implemented - I'd much prefer it to be similar to rugby, with the game ending at the natural conclusion of a play. It's not as though it's an exact science anyway, so why not give that extra little bit to the crowd at the end of a game.
Quote from: maldini on February 02, 2025, 11:15:26 PMDo only certain games, televised ones, operate the hooter after 35/70 mins?
Only Div 1 games for the opening rounds. The software on a number of scoreboards around the country is not currently in place to allow the count-down option was excuse given for not using the hooter in grounds for Div 2/3.4 games.
I once said here before that big the ref's had a link (Bluetooth wireless) to the scoreboard at the grounds we would end a lot of the gurning
So when the ref stops his watch it'll stop the ref clock at the ground. So when it hit 30 at both half's the game is up.
I also like the method that rugby uses as mentioned above, play till there's a break in natural play
What is the punishment for impeding a solo and go? 13m free?
50m advance
If a keeper gets a black card (or red) does another player become the designated keeper for the purposes of the new rules or do all 14 players remain "live" at all times for passing?
Quote from: BigGreenField on February 03, 2025, 10:16:49 AMIf a keeper gets a black card (or red) does another player become the designated keeper for the purposes of the new rules or do all 14 players remain "live" at all times for passing?
Would assume u need to either sub on a keeper or an outfielder needs to put on the goalie jersey. Good question.
Would like to see rule allowing last play to finish at end of game rather than hooter going in middle of an attack
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 10:24:52 AMQuote from: BigGreenField on February 03, 2025, 10:16:49 AMIf a keeper gets a black card (or red) does another player become the designated keeper for the purposes of the new rules or do all 14 players remain "live" at all times for passing?
Would assume u need to either sub on a keeper or an outfielder needs to put on the goalie jersey. Good question.
I had wondered the same thing.
Also, what is the implication of changing positions? So lets say I move the corner back into goals and the keeper out into CB. Do they have to change jersey's or will a free be conceded of someone passes the ball to the keeper now playing in CB? Hypothetical scenario, but in theory there's no reason why a manager wouldnt change players position during a game, including the keeper especially if an outfield player is selected in goals.
Anyone else getting the impression that these new rules will really suit teams that have big men?
If a physically smaller team is forced to use long kickouts (for example) they have a smaller chance of winning possession meaning the rules have more of a detrimental effect on them than on the bigger teams.
Look at Armagh v Tyrone - Armagh were physically much bigger/taller and wiped them out on kickouts, but Tyrone had to persist with the long kick regardless. With the 40m arc rule, essentially a short kickout is ruled out and with the strong breeze in that match it was near impossible to go over the top of the press.
It just feels to me like it gives bigger teams an unfair advantage in terms of the tactical part of the game.
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 31, 2025, 12:21:24 PMThere's a Loughgiel team photo from the 80s where they played a football match so they must have played some football once ;D Cushendall I don't think would have it about the place.
It seems the same down the Ards peninsula. Anyone ever try starting football up in any of those clubs JC?
Ballycran were the last club to play adult football, late 90's was probably when they gave up.
Back then getting sent off in the football would have ruled you out of the hurling so that probably didn't help.
A few lads would still play a bit of football for the likes of Kilclief, Saul, Darragh Cross etc etc, but not enough to sustain a team.
Quote from: onefineday on February 03, 2025, 12:27:20 AMQuote from: JoG2 on February 02, 2025, 11:27:26 PMQuote from: maldini on February 02, 2025, 11:15:26 PMDo only certain games, televised ones, operate the hooter after 35/70 mins?
Yes, only certain grounds. Seen the hooter man leaving CP today with a big box of about half a dozen hooters. I'd say they'll be part of all county grounds stock in the next few months.
Only division one at the moment.
I'm personally not a fan of how it's implemented - I'd much prefer it to be similar to rugby, with the game ending at the natural conclusion of a play. It's not as though it's an exact science anyway, so why not give that extra little bit to the crowd at the end of a game.
Agree with this, not sure why they haven't gone with that already. Sometimes it just seems like we don't implement positive aspects from other sports, as god forbid we be accused of copying it.
Quote from: HiMucker on February 03, 2025, 11:04:50 AMQuote from: onefineday on February 03, 2025, 12:27:20 AMQuote from: JoG2 on February 02, 2025, 11:27:26 PMQuote from: maldini on February 02, 2025, 11:15:26 PMDo only certain games, televised ones, operate the hooter after 35/70 mins?
Yes, only certain grounds. Seen the hooter man leaving CP today with a big box of about half a dozen hooters. I'd say they'll be part of all county grounds stock in the next few months.
Only division one at the moment.
I'm personally not a fan of how it's implemented - I'd much prefer it to be similar to rugby, with the game ending at the natural conclusion of a play. It's not as though it's an exact science anyway, so why not give that extra little bit to the crowd at the end of a game.
Agree with this, not sure why they haven't gone with that already. Sometimes it just seems like we don't implement positive aspects from other sports, as god forbid we be accused of copying it.
Yes, 100%. Take our game yesterday. That goal to take Kerry into a 3 point lead. We won in our kick out and everyone is shouting at young Baker to kick it in as we'd only 10 secs to the hooter blowing..he obviously couldn't hear us. Rather than a last nail biting attack, it was a case of sullen faces (not Kerry faces of course) looking at the countdown of doom
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 03, 2025, 10:51:57 AMAnyone else getting the impression that these new rules will really suit teams that have big men?
If a physically smaller team is forced to use long kickouts (for example) they have a smaller chance of winning possession meaning the rules have more of a detrimental effect on them than on the bigger teams.
Look at Armagh v Tyrone - Armagh were physically much bigger/taller and wiped them out on kickouts, but Tyrone had to persist with the long kick regardless. With the 40m arc rule, essentially a short kickout is ruled out and with the strong breeze in that match it was near impossible to go over the top of the press.
It just feels to me like it gives bigger teams an unfair advantage in terms of the tactical part of the game.
Yeah absolutely, but then again watching that match there wasnt that many clean catches, all about breaking ball and you don't need to be big to win that. Thought Jemar Hall did really well the other night winning dirty ball and he was probably the smallest man on the field.
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 03, 2025, 10:45:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 10:24:52 AMQuote from: BigGreenField on February 03, 2025, 10:16:49 AMIf a keeper gets a black card (or red) does another player become the designated keeper for the purposes of the new rules or do all 14 players remain "live" at all times for passing?
Would assume u need to either sub on a keeper or an outfielder needs to put on the goalie jersey. Good question.
I had wondered the same thing.
Also, what is the implication of changing positions? So lets say I move the corner back into goals and the keeper out into CB. Do they have to change jersey's or will a free be conceded of someone passes the ball to the keeper now playing in CB? Hypothetical scenario, but in theory there's no reason why a manager wouldnt change players position during a game, including the keeper especially if an outfield player is selected in goals.
It'll be the man in the goalie jersey, don't see refs being bothered with that shit. You'd have to change jersey.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 11:16:44 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 03, 2025, 10:45:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 10:24:52 AMQuote from: BigGreenField on February 03, 2025, 10:16:49 AMIf a keeper gets a black card (or red) does another player become the designated keeper for the purposes of the new rules or do all 14 players remain "live" at all times for passing?
Would assume u need to either sub on a keeper or an outfielder needs to put on the goalie jersey. Good question.
I had wondered the same thing.
Also, what is the implication of changing positions? So lets say I move the corner back into goals and the keeper out into CB. Do they have to change jersey's or will a free be conceded of someone passes the ball to the keeper now playing in CB? Hypothetical scenario, but in theory there's no reason why a manager wouldnt change players position during a game, including the keeper especially if an outfield player is selected in goals.
It'll be the man in the goalie jersey, don't see refs being bothered with that shit. You'd have to change jersey.
If you change jersey then the team sheets change too? I'm being deliberately pedantic here - I just think its a nonsense rule and if a team really wanted to push the boundaries then they could argue position changes to get away with passing to the keeper.
Of the rules introduced, I like the hooter and the solo and go.
The dissent rule is grand so long as the ref has a bit of wit about using correctly.
I'm undecided on the 2 pointers - are we seeing any more long range shooting than we saw in previous years? Not sure we are, but they are being rewarded more, so I'd argue this isn't adding anything.
The kickout rule and passing to the keeper I think are a load of horsesh*t and are designed deliberately to favour Kerry\Dublin etc and negate the "Ulster" tactics of running the ball.
The rule about handing the ball to an opponent after a foul is ridiculous imo.
And then there are all these sub-rules about moving the ball into/out of the arc for frees and more besides. They feel a bit like they are being made up as they go along.
At Kildare v Sligo a few went 'short' in terms of kicking from 20m to just outside the 40m arc. If the movement is right teams should be able to get quick ones away and not always go into the bodies.
That being said I like that and there was some great fielding yesterday.
It's not the new rules but I see some managers are crying out for 6 subs...lads are getting injured in games. But sure let's ingnore the feckin months of slogging and lack of rest and recovery that some of these TOP S&C lads allow.
Training to games ratio in the GAA is still woeful, so I'd rather they looked at what they were doing between games before they look for extra men to throw on.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 12:21:10 PMIt's not the new rules but I see some managers are crying out for 6 subs...lads are getting injured in games. But sure let's ingnore the feckin months of slogging and lack of rest and recovery that some of these TOP S&C lads allow.
Training to games ratio in the GAA is still woeful, so I'd rather they looked at what they were doing between games before they look for extra men to throw on.
More subs just suits the bigger counties where the quality runs deeper before it drops off, no ability for teams to be smart with their training and match regime.
Rugby Union (for different reasons) brought in 8 subs in 2015 and largely recognised ever since as suiting the bigger countries/teams and also distorting the game (no gaps as players get taken off if tired).
Was just about to say the same BGF. I like the idea of reducing the length of intercounty games to 60mins, rather than allowing additional substitutes
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 12:21:10 PMAt Kildare v Sligo a few went 'short' in terms of kicking from 20m to just outside the 40m arc. If the movement is right teams should be able to get quick ones away and not always go into the bodies.
That being said I like that and there was some great fielding yesterday.
It's not the new rules but I see some managers are crying out for 6 subs...lads are getting injured in games. But sure let's ingnore the feckin months of slogging and lack of rest and recovery that some of these TOP S&C lads allow.
Training to games ratio in the GAA is still woeful, so I'd rather they looked at what they were doing between games before they look for extra men to throw on.
Don't think you'd be in the 'top' bracket if this was actually happening , which it of course isn't
Why all the fuss about the count down clock and the hooter? Has this not been used in Ladies football for years?
The countDOWN clock isn't needed. Celtic Park yesterday had a clock that counter upwards, but the hooter blew at exactly 35 and 70 mins. This seems to work OK, so not having software for a clock to countdown doesn't seem like a real reason not to implement the hooter.
MR2 may come along and correct me on all this but I believe you must have a designated goalkeeper on the pitch, so under the enhanced rules you will always have at least one player you cannot pass to in the defensive half. In the Intermediate final when Ballinderry keeper sent off for the final penalty the outfield player became the designated goalkeeper by putting on a bib. If not the designated keeper, he wouldn't have been able to touch the ball on the ground in the small square. A GK not taking a kick out is also restricted to staying in the small square until the kickout taken.
Forward mark is still a terrible rule, the 50m punishment for not giving the ball back and the 21m or 41m free for 3 up offences are too severe. C Glass didn't seem to know a free had been given against him when not handing the ball back in the Derry game resulting in a point for Kerry. And Derry's 3 up offence occurred when they were attacking surely this wasn't 'deliberate' as there would be no benefit in an added defender heading up the pitch as 12 v 11 can be made with the GK - 2 points against for something that didn't affect play is disproportionate.
According to the rulebook, the goalkeeper is designated by the fact that he wears a different jersey to the rest of his teammates.
Yeah there needs to be a GK by rule, if not it would be abuse of being able to have an outlet in defence to pass the ball to
Sorry, just to go back to the 6 Subs.
From RTÉ
"I feel for Dublin, they lost three players with hamstrings. I think that's definitely something that has to be looked at," McGuinness said.
"Peadar Mogan would be one of our fitter lads and he was really struggling at the end and we had the five subs on and we couldn't get him off.
So, isn't it up to them to manage their workload before calling for more new rules?
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 08:40:37 PMSorry, just to go back to the 6 Subs.
From RTÉ
"I feel for Dublin, they lost three players with hamstrings. I think that's definitely something that has to be looked at," McGuinness said.
"Peadar Mogan would be one of our fitter lads and he was really struggling at the end and we had the five subs on and we couldn't get him off.
So, isn't it up to them to manage their workload before calling for more new rules?
I'd say work loads would be managed fairly well, I'm sure there would be well qualified and well paid people keeping on top of how much lads are doing on the gps but I'm not privy to it obviously.
Football is being played at a much higher pace now, that style of play with teams passing laterally across around 40m out will be seen less, but expecting players to be fit to get up and down all day with no break just won't happen. The solo and go has sped the game up a lot but will lead to a lot more running to be done.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 08:58:19 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 08:40:37 PMSorry, just to go back to the 6 Subs.
From RTÉ
"I feel for Dublin, they lost three players with hamstrings. I think that's definitely something that has to be looked at," McGuinness said.
"Peadar Mogan would be one of our fitter lads and he was really struggling at the end and we had the five subs on and we couldn't get him off.
So, isn't it up to them to manage their workload before calling for more new rules?
I'd say work loads would be managed fairly well, I'm sure there would be well qualified and well paid people keeping on top of how much lads are doing on the gps but I'm not privy to it obviously.
Football is being played at a much higher pace now, that style of play with teams passing laterally across around 40m out will be seen less, but expecting players to be fit to get up and down all day with no break just won't happen. The solo and go has sped the game up a lot but will lead to a lot more running to be done.
Is that not a good thing?
Managers will just have to adapt and "rest" players when needed.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 04, 2025, 08:13:46 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 08:58:19 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 08:40:37 PMSorry, just to go back to the 6 Subs.
From RTÉ
"I feel for Dublin, they lost three players with hamstrings. I think that's definitely something that has to be looked at," McGuinness said.
"Peadar Mogan would be one of our fitter lads and he was really struggling at the end and we had the five subs on and we couldn't get him off.
So, isn't it up to them to manage their workload before calling for more new rules?
I'd say work loads would be managed fairly well, I'm sure there would be well qualified and well paid people keeping on top of how much lads are doing on the gps but I'm not privy to it obviously.
Football is being played at a much higher pace now, that style of play with teams passing laterally across around 40m out will be seen less, but expecting players to be fit to get up and down all day with no break just won't happen. The solo and go has sped the game up a lot but will lead to a lot more running to be done.
Is that not a good thing?
Managers will just have to adapt and "rest" players when needed.
It is of course, but no matter how fit and strong players get, they'll never be able to get up and down all dsy without little breaks of keeping the ball.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 04, 2025, 08:49:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on February 04, 2025, 08:13:46 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 08:58:19 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 08:40:37 PMSorry, just to go back to the 6 Subs.
From RTÉ
"I feel for Dublin, they lost three players with hamstrings. I think that's definitely something that has to be looked at," McGuinness said.
"Peadar Mogan would be one of our fitter lads and he was really struggling at the end and we had the five subs on and we couldn't get him off.
So, isn't it up to them to manage their workload before calling for more new rules?
I'd say work loads would be managed fairly well, I'm sure there would be well qualified and well paid people keeping on top of how much lads are doing on the gps but I'm not privy to it obviously.
Football is being played at a much higher pace now, that style of play with teams passing laterally across around 40m out will be seen less, but expecting players to be fit to get up and down all day with no break just won't happen. The solo and go has sped the game up a lot but will lead to a lot more running to be done.
Is that not a good thing?
Managers will just have to adapt and "rest" players when needed.
It is of course, but no matter how fit and strong players get, they'll never be able to get up and down all dsy without little breaks of keeping the ball.
Maybe they could try kicking the ball more instead, like AFL players.
Simplest solution for a FOOTball problem!
Quote from: thewobbler on February 04, 2025, 08:57:29 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 04, 2025, 08:49:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on February 04, 2025, 08:13:46 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 08:58:19 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 08:40:37 PMSorry, just to go back to the 6 Subs.
From RTÉ
"I feel for Dublin, they lost three players with hamstrings. I think that's definitely something that has to be looked at," McGuinness said.
"Peadar Mogan would be one of our fitter lads and he was really struggling at the end and we had the five subs on and we couldn't get him off.
So, isn't it up to them to manage their workload before calling for more new rules?
I'd say work loads would be managed fairly well, I'm sure there would be well qualified and well paid people keeping on top of how much lads are doing on the gps but I'm not privy to it obviously.
Football is being played at a much higher pace now, that style of play with teams passing laterally across around 40m out will be seen less, but expecting players to be fit to get up and down all day with no break just won't happen. The solo and go has sped the game up a lot but will lead to a lot more running to be done.
Is that not a good thing?
Managers will just have to adapt and "rest" players when needed.
It is of course, but no matter how fit and strong players get, they'll never be able to get up and down all dsy without little breaks of keeping the ball.
Maybe they could try kicking the ball more instead, like AFL players.
Will coaches allow that?
High risk activity and all that.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 04, 2025, 08:57:29 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 04, 2025, 08:49:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on February 04, 2025, 08:13:46 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 08:58:19 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 08:40:37 PMSorry, just to go back to the 6 Subs.
From RTÉ
"I feel for Dublin, they lost three players with hamstrings. I think that's definitely something that has to be looked at," McGuinness said.
"Peadar Mogan would be one of our fitter lads and he was really struggling at the end and we had the five subs on and we couldn't get him off.
So, isn't it up to them to manage their workload before calling for more new rules?
I'd say work loads would be managed fairly well, I'm sure there would be well qualified and well paid people keeping on top of how much lads are doing on the gps but I'm not privy to it obviously.
Football is being played at a much higher pace now, that style of play with teams passing laterally across around 40m out will be seen less, but expecting players to be fit to get up and down all day with no break just won't happen. The solo and go has sped the game up a lot but will lead to a lot more running to be done.
Is that not a good thing?
Managers will just have to adapt and "rest" players when needed.
It is of course, but no matter how fit and strong players get, they'll never be able to get up and down all dsy without little breaks of keeping the ball.
Maybe they could try kicking the ball more instead, like AFL players.
Yeah brilliant but then the defending team will have to attempt to get back and defend. And if the forward it is kicked to wins the ball and the defender gets him slowed, he's going to need support runners to help.
Serious strain being put on players.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 04, 2025, 09:37:26 AMQuote from: thewobbler on February 04, 2025, 08:57:29 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 04, 2025, 08:49:21 AMQuote from: johnnycool on February 04, 2025, 08:13:46 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 08:58:19 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 03, 2025, 08:40:37 PMSorry, just to go back to the 6 Subs.
From RTÉ
"I feel for Dublin, they lost three players with hamstrings. I think that's definitely something that has to be looked at," McGuinness said.
"Peadar Mogan would be one of our fitter lads and he was really struggling at the end and we had the five subs on and we couldn't get him off.
So, isn't it up to them to manage their workload before calling for more new rules?
I'd say work loads would be managed fairly well, I'm sure there would be well qualified and well paid people keeping on top of how much lads are doing on the gps but I'm not privy to it obviously.
Football is being played at a much higher pace now, that style of play with teams passing laterally across around 40m out will be seen less, but expecting players to be fit to get up and down all day with no break just won't happen. The solo and go has sped the game up a lot but will lead to a lot more running to be done.
Is that not a good thing?
Managers will just have to adapt and "rest" players when needed.
It is of course, but no matter how fit and strong players get, they'll never be able to get up and down all dsy without little breaks of keeping the ball.
Maybe they could try kicking the ball more instead, like AFL players.
Yeah brilliant but then the defending team will have to attempt to get back and defend. And if the forward it is kicked to wins the ball and the defender gets him slowed, he's going to need support runners to help.
Serious strain being put on players.
You (and I'm not just picking out you, this is tens of thousands of football followers, and pretty much every coach in the land) might need a wee trip to the adjustment bureau.
1. The game is going to be higher scoring now. Setting your team up to keep the score down is going to be much more difficult. So instead of treating every score against as something worthy of an enquiry, just accept it is part of the game.
2. The 3-up rules means that there will always be an outball (at least of sorts). And that outball is going to occasionally be intercepted and returned. If you really think you can condition humans to back up lengthy kicks of a football on repeat for an hour, then you're dangerous.
Also, I don't see any lads running the full lenght of the field too often. There is still a defensive set-up and not all attacking players go all the way and similarly not all defenders have to run all the way back.
What was McStay's gripe with the 3 back breach and allowing some leniency when a player is barely or "accidentally" over the line but not interfering with play? He said it was in the rules.
Quote from: highorlow on February 04, 2025, 10:21:54 AMWhat was McStay's gripe with the 3 back breach and allowing some leniency when a player is barely or "accidentally" over the line but not interfering with play? He said it was in the rules.
If two players are carried over the line by momentum when going for a ball or slipped over due to the surface then its a hop ball from the center
Will be some craic when you give that rather than the 50 m free in club games
If I'm about to shoot for a goal and an opponent slides across the HW line.....?
Quote from: Rossfan on February 04, 2025, 11:53:57 AMIf I'm about to shoot for a goal and an opponent slides across the HW line.....?
3 points if the goal goes in, then a shot at the 2 points arc after. Be daft to be sliding
Quote from: Mad Mentor on February 03, 2025, 01:28:57 PMWhy all the fuss about the count down clock and the hooter? Has this not been used in Ladies football for years?
Yeah and the rules for both are different as I understand. The end to the Armagh v Tyrone game potentially highlighting that. The final score would have stood under the rules in ladies football but as I understand didn't stand under the men's rules.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 11:16:44 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 03, 2025, 10:45:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 03, 2025, 10:24:52 AMQuote from: BigGreenField on February 03, 2025, 10:16:49 AMIf a keeper gets a black card (or red) does another player become the designated keeper for the purposes of the new rules or do all 14 players remain "live" at all times for passing?
Would assume u need to either sub on a keeper or an outfielder needs to put on the goalie jersey. Good question.
I had wondered the same thing.
Also, what is the implication of changing positions? So lets say I move the corner back into goals and the keeper out into CB. Do they have to change jersey's or will a free be conceded of someone passes the ball to the keeper now playing in CB? Hypothetical scenario, but in theory there's no reason why a manager wouldnt change players position during a game, including the keeper especially if an outfield player is selected in goals.
It'll be the man in the goalie jersey, don't see refs being bothered with that shit. You'd have to change jersey.
This was covered in the FAQ's. The man in the keeper jersey is the keeper for all rules. e.g. he must either take the kick out or be in the small rectangle when it's being kicked. So I don't think it matters where they line up.
Watched 4 matches cross the weekend, 1 in person.
Each of the games was very watchable, so rules seem to be bringing positivity to them. Everyone seems to be entertained!
However, have to take issue with the 'extra man'- goalkeeper rule. It is making 1 position a lot more important than others. It gives a huge advantage when the goalkeeper takes the ball, as being an extra man, they has lots of time to square up a shot and shoot. T
I would amend the ruling in that they can only receive the ball from their teammates when inside the opposing 45m, rather than half. That way the defending team can close them quicker. It may also discourage it as it would be greater ground to make up in the event of a break.
The changes are positive and badly needed. The kickouts are now a great joy to watch. Some great fielding on display again.
Didn't see the dissent rule used this weekend, but still think at club level it could cause havoc as open to too much interpretation.
Interesting one about the keeper only getting inside the far 45, would really make it risky then. Although surely you would identify the weaker ball player and let him be the free man and put a defender on the likes of Morgan/Beggan/Rafferty?
Quote from: donelli on February 04, 2025, 03:50:30 PMWatched 4 matches cross the weekend, 1 in person.
Each of the games was very watchable, so rules seem to be bringing positivity to them. Everyone seems to be entertained!
However, have to take issue with the 'extra man'- goalkeeper rule. It is making 1 position a lot more important than others. It gives a huge advantage when the goalkeeper takes the ball, as being an extra man, they has lots of time to square up a shot and shoot. T
I would amend the ruling in that they can only receive the ball from their teammates when inside the opposing 45m, rather than half. That way the defending team can close them quicker. It may also discourage it as it would be greater ground to make up in the event of a break.
The changes are positive and badly needed. The kickouts are now a great joy to watch. Some great fielding on display again.
Didn't see the dissent rule used this weekend, but still think at club level it could cause havoc as open to too much interpretation.
Explain?
Think I'm a fan of the new rules in the main, although one I would like revisited is the kickout going beyond the 40m arc.
I understand why this was brought in, to create more contests for possession, but with the keeper now unable to receive possession in their own half, I believe this is enough to stop the 'short kickout, quick pass to the corner back on the loop, and straight back to the keeper' play that we were seeing so much off, which led to a lot of slow build up play.
I think its fair that teams have an option of retaining possession from a short kickout, as a lot of what I've seen in the first 2 weeks, is 50/50 out to midfiled. You could argue that teams need to come up with new strategies of creating space and runners, but with a now condensed area in which a kickout can be received, i don't know if this is viable. Although maybe I've just become conditioned to possession based football.
Another aspect is that with the kickout going longer in most cases, the opposition forwards, who are standing off their men a few yards, are first to the breaking ball. I can see spells of where teams just can't get out from their kickout. Say the opposition goalkeeper is pressed up, the defense are trying to keep a bit of shape and offer themselves short around the 40m arc, the forwards are on the break side of the defender awaiting a long kickout...the team that has just scored/wide is at too much of an advantage, and this is before we take into account wind conditions.
Also, I'm not sure how well it scales to Junior or youth football
Happy to hear opposing views
Quote from: smort on February 05, 2025, 02:39:45 PMThink I'm a fan of the new rules in the main, although one I would like revisited is the kickout going beyond the 40m arc.
I understand why this was brought in, to create more contests for possession, but with the keeper now unable to receive possession in their own half, I believe this is enough to stop the 'short kickout, quick pass to the corner back on the loop, and straight back to the keeper' play that we were seeing so much off, which led to a lot of slow build up play.
I think its fair that teams have an option of retaining possession from a short kickout, as a lot of what I've seen in the first 2 weeks, is 50/50 out to midfiled. You could argue that teams need to come up with new strategies of creating space and runners, but with a now condensed area in which a kickout can be received, i don't know if this is viable. Although maybe I've just become conditioned to possession based football.
Another aspect is that with the kickout going longer in most cases, the opposition forwards, who are standing off their men a few yards, are first to the breaking ball. I can see spells of where teams just can't get out from their kickout. Say the opposition goalkeeper is pressed up, the defense are trying to keep a bit of shape and offer themselves short around the 40m arc, the forwards are on the break side of the defender awaiting a long kickout...the team that has just scored/wide is at too much of an advantage, and this is before we take into account wind conditions.
Also, I'm not sure how well it scales to Junior or youth football
Happy to hear opposing views
Probably answered one of your own questions, you are probably conditioned to watching possession based football, the long kick out has to be won by someone, and if teams pressed all time the kick outs old rules would still mean them going longer so no change there, teams need to work on how they retain possession from the kick outs, that's on them not the rules. The pitches are fairly wide, why kicking it down the throat of the center will condense that area. Again that is of the tactics of the coach
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2025, 02:53:24 PMQuote from: smort on February 05, 2025, 02:39:45 PMThink I'm a fan of the new rules in the main, although one I would like revisited is the kickout going beyond the 40m arc.
I understand why this was brought in, to create more contests for possession, but with the keeper now unable to receive possession in their own half, I believe this is enough to stop the 'short kickout, quick pass to the corner back on the loop, and straight back to the keeper' play that we were seeing so much off, which led to a lot of slow build up play.
I think its fair that teams have an option of retaining possession from a short kickout, as a lot of what I've seen in the first 2 weeks, is 50/50 out to midfiled. You could argue that teams need to come up with new strategies of creating space and runners, but with a now condensed area in which a kickout can be received, i don't know if this is viable. Although maybe I've just become conditioned to possession based football.
Another aspect is that with the kickout going longer in most cases, the opposition forwards, who are standing off their men a few yards, are first to the breaking ball. I can see spells of where teams just can't get out from their kickout. Say the opposition goalkeeper is pressed up, the defense are trying to keep a bit of shape and offer themselves short around the 40m arc, the forwards are on the break side of the defender awaiting a long kickout...the team that has just scored/wide is at too much of an advantage, and this is before we take into account wind conditions.
Also, I'm not sure how well it scales to Junior or youth football
Happy to hear opposing views
Probably answered one of your own questions, you are probably conditioned to watching possession based football, the long kick out has to be won by someone, and if teams pressed all time the kick outs old rules would still mean them going longer so no change there, teams need to work on how they retain possession from the kick outs, that's on them not the rules. The pitches are fairly wide, why kicking it down the throat of the center will condense that area. Again that is of the tactics of the coach
Fairly wide yes, but teams will just station a man out on each side as we've already seen. There is now a very limited amount of real estate to work in so it's pretty much a 50/50 most of the time . Come provincial championship rounds 1 and 2 some smaller counties will struggle for possession for large parts, hemmed in / overturned
I'm enjoying the rules on the whole, but I've a feeling this one will be amended
It's kinda funny as teams now know they don't need to press as much as it needs to go more than 40m, but they all just trudged out in Kildare v Sligo. But then there were a few where a defender did offer up an option just outside the arc. Although they did get pinged for one inside.
The better keepers and managers will think of something, but I like that even the short ones need to be longer than usual.
The two games I was at were very enjoyable and the midfield battle is great. But, I would like it with Kevin Feely playing for Kildare!
Even the breaking ball had more bodies around and there were good fights for it too. Paul Conroy was chatting Tommy Rooney and he loved it. That's because he is a big unit who has lots of football in him.
These lads can all play football, but some have it coached away.
Probably not the correct thread but....
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2025/0206/1495134-gaa-report-revenue-rise-despite-fall-in-attendances/
More money with less people attending matches.
Quote from: marty34 on February 06, 2025, 10:24:48 PMProbably not the correct thread but....
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2025/0206/1495134-gaa-report-revenue-rise-despite-fall-in-attendances/
More money with less people attending matches.
Yes won't need to ask anyone why do they increase ticket prices.
People asking why don't All Ireland Finals get pushed back to September again also got an answer.
QuoteThe stadium hosted a total of six concerts in 2024, with Coldplay playing four nights in the autumn, with Bruce Springsteen and AC/DC performing at the venue earlier in the year.
Related to this, stadium rental income jumped over €5m to a total of €14.2m for 2024. Food, beverage and meetings and events' income reached €24.1m, a jump of €10m.
If players are unable to catch a ball from a kickout at least sometimes then they shouldnt be playing gaelic football. Soccer would suit them better where they can talk about " pressing" , strategies" etc.
Quote from: JPO on February 06, 2025, 11:22:23 PMIf players are unable to catch a ball from a kickout at least sometimes then they shouldnt be playing gaelic football. Soccer would suit them better where they can talk about " pressing" , strategies" etc.
If players cannot stop their opponent catching a ball from a kick out, at least sometimes, then they shouldn't be playing Gaelic Football.
Quote from: Lucifer on February 07, 2025, 11:16:42 AMQuote from: JPO on February 06, 2025, 11:22:23 PMIf players are unable to catch a ball from a kickout at least sometimes then they shouldnt be playing gaelic football. Soccer would suit them better where they can talk about " pressing" , strategies" etc.
If players cannot stop their opponent catching a ball from a kick out, at least sometimes, then they shouldn't be playing Gaelic Football.
The devil is in the detail
I see the Ulster league has started.
Anybody been at any of the games? I presume it's with the new rules?
Not really about the football but just wondering how the referees are doing? Not giving out but just wonder how they are coping.
Quote from: marty34 on February 09, 2025, 08:49:12 AMI see the Ulster league has started.
Anybody been at any of the games? I presume it's with the new rules?
Not really about the football but just wondering how the referees are doing? Not giving out but just wonder how they are coping.
Watched one this afternoon, 3v3 was completely ignored and I don't blame the ref tbh. Was 1 chatting back incident which was punished in the first half so looks like that is having the desired effect
A quick scan at the ulster gaa results page, a lot of high scoring games in the ulster league, wouldn't be usual for this time of year
Chatting to a few refs and bar the 3 up they're happy enough,
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 09, 2025, 03:38:38 PMChatting to a few refs and bar the 3 up they're happy enough,
It's a good rule but understandable hard for a referee to monitor as they'd need eyes in the back of their heads.
Whats interesting about these new rules is that a lot of these coaching guru's online really can't handle the kickouts in particular.
They like to "control the process" but are struggling with the current chaos in relation to kickouts. Chaos is a good thing for any sport and players need to be able to free think in chaos rather than be robots.
Coupled with that was the post match interview with Ryan McHugh after their win in Kerry, he's enjoying the new rules, the freedom that they bring, especially the tap and go, so lets here more from the players in relation to them, good and bad.
Many Donegal players out with 6 week hamstring tears after the game in Kerry or Jim just talking shite the week before?
Michael Langan off injured after 4mins v Kerry ...
"He has definitely pulled his hamstring," Donegal manager McGuinness said of the St Michael's midfielder. "I suppose the travel as well - you know it's a long journey you know and that might've had an impact on it, maybe the game last week."
Nawhing to do with the training load or warm up Jim naw?
Man loves an excuse
Quote from: Brendan on February 09, 2025, 01:28:45 PMQuote from: marty34 on February 09, 2025, 08:49:12 AMI see the Ulster league has started.
Anybody been at any of the games? I presume it's with the new rules?
Not really about the football but just wondering how the referees are doing? Not giving out but just wonder how they are coping.
Watched one this afternoon, 3v3 was completely ignored and I don't blame the ref tbh. Was 1 chatting back incident which was punished in the first half so looks like that is having the desired effect
Think will initially be more back chat in league and championship as these games are challenge games really with no real jeopardy.
Watched an under 16 challenge match over the weekend. Kickout going past the 40m arc has potential to see teams destroyed. The part of the rule that says the other team can intercept the ball inside the 40m arc has the attacking team running onto anything short with a free run at goal and keeper out of position. Defenders can't get back as they are static staying outside the arc for kickout. If the idea is more contests no one should be allowed to win ball in the arc with a free in if it falls short and against any player touching it inside.
Quote from: GTP on February 10, 2025, 01:44:38 PMWatched an under 16 challenge match over the weekend. Kickout going past the 40m arc has potential to see teams destroyed. The part of the rule that says the other team can intercept the ball inside the 40m arc has the attacking team running onto anything short with a free run at goal and keeper out of position. Defenders can't get back as they are static staying outside the arc for kickout. If the idea is more contests no one should be allowed to win ball in the arc with a free in if it falls short and against any player touching it inside.
This is easily solved by sensible refereeing ie if a keeper makes a clear attempt to kick to the arc, then it's game on.
Quote from: GTP on February 10, 2025, 01:44:38 PMWatched an under 16 challenge match over the weekend. Kickout going past the 40m arc has potential to see teams destroyed. The part of the rule that says the other team can intercept the ball inside the 40m arc has the attacking team running onto anything short with a free run at goal and keeper out of position. Defenders can't get back as they are static staying outside the arc for kickout. If the idea is more contests no one should be allowed to win ball in the arc with a free in if it falls short and against any player touching it inside.
Defenders can be inside the 40m arc but can't contest the ball until it's touched by an attacker, so depending on a few things it might be smart to have a player inside the arc as a precaution, especially in juvenile games
Quote from: tiempo on February 10, 2025, 12:20:10 PMMichael Langan off injured after 4mins v Kerry ...
"He has definitely pulled his hamstring," Donegal manager McGuinness said of the St Michael's midfielder. "I suppose the travel as well - you know it's a long journey you know and that might've had an impact on it, maybe the game last week."
Nawhing to do with the training load or warm up Jim naw?
Man loves an excuse
Langan's injury happened inside the 1st minute of the game, hard to blame that on workload done during the game.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 10, 2025, 01:50:13 PMQuote from: GTP on February 10, 2025, 01:44:38 PMWatched an under 16 challenge match over the weekend. Kickout going past the 40m arc has potential to see teams destroyed. The part of the rule that says the other team can intercept the ball inside the 40m arc has the attacking team running onto anything short with a free run at goal and keeper out of position. Defenders can't get back as they are static staying outside the arc for kickout. If the idea is more contests no one should be allowed to win ball in the arc with a free in if it falls short and against any player touching it inside.
This is easily solved by sensible refereeing ie if a keeper makes a clear attempt to kick to the arc, then it's game on.
Good man Wobbler. Your fix is for the referee to totally ignore the rule ;D
Not sure that would be a proper RCCA fix.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 10, 2025, 02:15:46 PMQuote from: tiempo on February 10, 2025, 12:20:10 PMMichael Langan off injured after 4mins v Kerry ...
"He has definitely pulled his hamstring," Donegal manager McGuinness said of the St Michael's midfielder. "I suppose the travel as well - you know it's a long journey you know and that might've had an impact on it, maybe the game last week."
Nawhing to do with the training load or warm up Jim naw?
Man loves an excuse
Langan's injury happened inside the 1st minute of the game, hard to blame that on workload done during the game.
Hard to blame on a game that took place a week earlier, but Jim managed to
Jim says the demands on players are 3, 4 or 5 times more than last year
Talking pure brown, its not easy this guru malarkey
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 10, 2025, 02:17:34 PMQuote from: thewobbler on February 10, 2025, 01:50:13 PMQuote from: GTP on February 10, 2025, 01:44:38 PMWatched an under 16 challenge match over the weekend. Kickout going past the 40m arc has potential to see teams destroyed. The part of the rule that says the other team can intercept the ball inside the 40m arc has the attacking team running onto anything short with a free run at goal and keeper out of position. Defenders can't get back as they are static staying outside the arc for kickout. If the idea is more contests no one should be allowed to win ball in the arc with a free in if it falls short and against any player touching it inside.
This is easily solved by sensible refereeing ie if a keeper makes a clear attempt to kick to the arc, then it's game on.
Good man Wobbler. Your fix is for the referee to totally ignore the rule ;D
Not sure that would be a proper RCCA fix.
I know. It seems like a mad flaw doesn't it?
Yet the best referees have been ignoring - or least taking liberties with - the rule book for years.
I don't play / coach /watch sports to watch young lads get fucked over by daft rules. I'm really hoping most referees feel the same way.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 10, 2025, 02:15:46 PMQuote from: tiempo on February 10, 2025, 12:20:10 PMMichael Langan off injured after 4mins v Kerry ...
"He has definitely pulled his hamstring," Donegal manager McGuinness said of the St Michael's midfielder. "I suppose the travel as well - you know it's a long journey you know and that might've had an impact on it, maybe the game last week."
Nawhing to do with the training load or warm up Jim naw?
Man loves an excuse
Langan's injury happened inside the 1st minute of the game, hard to blame that on workload done during the game.
Maybe he's talking about workload being done this past few months?
I.e. a heavy block of training.
The kickouts could just clear the arc but attackers running onto the ball as it fell made them too easy to intercept inside. Ref couldn't apply common sense as defence never got their hands on the ball. Defenders in the arc means you are out numbered trying to win the kickout I think it would make it much harder for keeper to get ball away. A small sample but it was not an enhancement to the game and puts a lot of pressure on a goalie. First game out but the handing ball back was a nonsense, kids doing keepie ups or not knowing which way a free was given could cost a team points and matches, whilst easy to say players will learn the punishment for a minor technical foul is pretty harsh.
Quote from: marty34 on February 10, 2025, 03:07:24 PMMaybe he's talking about workload being done this past few months?
I.e. a heavy block of training.
Quite possibly
Blaming the rules is such inane drivel
Quote from: GTP on February 10, 2025, 03:27:56 PMThe kickouts could just clear the arc but attackers running onto the ball as it fell made them too easy to intercept inside. Ref couldn't apply common sense as defence never got their hands on the ball. Defenders in the arc means you are out numbered trying to win the kickout I think it would make it much harder for keeper to get ball away. A small sample but it was not an enhancement to the game and puts a lot of pressure on a goalie. First game out but the handing ball back was a nonsense, kids doing keepie ups or not knowing which way a free was given could cost a team points and matches, whilst easy to say players will learn the punishment for a minor technical foul is pretty harsh.
They'll soon learn
Quote from: GTP on February 10, 2025, 03:27:56 PMThe kickouts could just clear the arc but attackers running onto the ball as it fell made them too easy to intercept inside. Ref couldn't apply common sense as defence never got their hands on the ball. Defenders in the arc means you are out numbered trying to win the kickout I think it would make it much harder for keeper to get ball away. A small sample but it was not an enhancement to the game and puts a lot of pressure on a goalie. First game out but the handing ball back was a nonsense, kids doing keepie ups or not knowing which way a free was given could cost a team points and matches, whilst easy to say players will learn the punishment for a minor technical foul is pretty harsh.
Id personally do away with the arc completely it certainly will make a mockery in underage games particularly. If a team kicks the ball out quickly that's on the opposition for not being tuned in. Not being able to go back to the keeper should allow the opposition to press the ball high up if they wish should a team get a short kickout off.
Being able to move a free in and out of the arc for a two pointer doesn't sit well with me either.
On another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
Quote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
Hadn't it been 5 seconds advantage since the rule was first introduced?
I believe the FRC decided last weekend on no tweaks for now.
Quote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 11:31:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
So where is the advantage then? The purpose is to favour the attacker, we wanted to have the games be more attacking, If the attacker claims the high ball inside the 21 from a pass from outside the 40 its to award that skill, the unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 11:31:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
So where is the advantage then? The purpose is to favour the attacker, we wanted to have the games be more attacking, If the attacker claims the high ball inside the 21 from a pass from outside the 40 its to award that skill, the unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
I like the soccer advantage where basically if its played on its advantage over, i hate seeing a player fouled, advantage given he gets away from his man then ball played in forward wins it out in front then goes for a score, defender makes a class block or interception and the ball is called back. To me, if the forward wins the ball that is an advantage. Ours is too long
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMthe unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
For a player, mentor or spectator they are likely to judge the referee as having given too long an advantage, not enough of an advantage or no advantage dependant on how it benefits or hurts their team. Refs having a wide discretion could (unfairly) leave them open to criticism for not applying the rule consistently.
The 5 seconds wasn't perfect as some club refs I have seen seemed to think holding possession was an advantage which meant frees in the scoring zone weren't given at the expense of a series of aimless handpasses. This extended advantage should prevent this.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 11:31:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
So where is the advantage then? The purpose is to favour the attacker, we wanted to have the games be more attacking, If the attacker claims the high ball inside the 21 from a pass from outside the 40 its to award that skill, the unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
They have five seconds to accrue any type of advantage if there is no advantage gained after the initial foul then free is awarded. An example would be if a foul was committed and a ball was kicked immediately into a 1 v 1 and defender wins the ball then give the original free. What I was seeing on Sunday was a foul committed on right hand side of pitch, the ball was then transferred via a number of passes to opposite side of pitch, shot taken from play drops short maybe 30 seconds later and ref then giving the original free.
The example you give here is slightly different as it is referring to the advanced mark, which can see some merit in as you rightly say promotes good use of the boot and catching and an upgrade on previous mark where you could kick it 5 yards and take a mark.
Quote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 12:52:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 11:31:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
So where is the advantage then? The purpose is to favour the attacker, we wanted to have the games be more attacking, If the attacker claims the high ball inside the 21 from a pass from outside the 40 its to award that skill, the unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
They have five seconds to accrue any type of advantage if there is no advantage gained after the initial foul then free is awarded. An example would be if a foul was committed and a ball was kicked immediately into a 1 v 1 and defender wins the ball then give the original free. What I was seeing on Sunday was a foul committed on right hand side of pitch, the ball was then transferred via a number of passes to opposite side of pitch, shot taken from play drops short maybe 30 seconds later and ref then giving the original free.
The example you give here is slightly different as it is referring to the advanced mark, which can see some merit in as you rightly say promotes good use of the boot and catching and an upgrade on previous mark where you could kick it 5 yards and take a mark.
There has been questions (some unanswered) on the advantage rule for 5 seconds given for a regular foul over the advance mark advantage where it's unlimited. My initial reading was a typical (a foul) advantage rule would be 5 seconds regardless, and anywhere on the pitch, and the new advance Mark rule was unlimited
Was this a challenge game/ulster winter club?
Quote from: GTP on February 11, 2025, 12:19:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMthe unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
For a player, mentor or spectator they are likely to judge the referee as having given too long an advantage, not enough of an advantage or no advantage dependant on how it benefits or hurts their team. Refs having a wide discretion could (unfairly) leave them open to criticism for not applying the rule consistently.
The 5 seconds wasn't perfect as some club refs I have seen seemed to think holding possession was an advantage which meant frees in the scoring zone weren't given at the expense of a series of aimless handpasses. This extended advantage should prevent this.
This is my concern about the rule.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 12:57:55 PMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 12:52:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 11:31:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
So where is the advantage then? The purpose is to favour the attacker, we wanted to have the games be more attacking, If the attacker claims the high ball inside the 21 from a pass from outside the 40 its to award that skill, the unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
They have five seconds to accrue any type of advantage if there is no advantage gained after the initial foul then free is awarded. An example would be if a foul was committed and a ball was kicked immediately into a 1 v 1 and defender wins the ball then give the original free. What I was seeing on Sunday was a foul committed on right hand side of pitch, the ball was then transferred via a number of passes to opposite side of pitch, shot taken from play drops short maybe 30 seconds later and ref then giving the original free.
The example you give here is slightly different as it is referring to the advanced mark, which can see some merit in as you rightly say promotes good use of the boot and catching and an upgrade on previous mark where you could kick it 5 yards and take a mark.
There has been questions (some unanswered) on the advantage rule for 5 seconds given for a regular foul over the advance mark advantage where it's unlimited. My initial reading was a typical (a foul) advantage rule would be 5 seconds regardless, and anywhere on the pitch, and the new advance Mark rule was unlimited
Was this a challenge game/ulster winter club?
Yes was Ulster club game.
Quote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 01:00:44 PMQuote from: GTP on February 11, 2025, 12:19:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMthe unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
For a player, mentor or spectator they are likely to judge the referee as having given too long an advantage, not enough of an advantage or no advantage dependant on how it benefits or hurts their team. Refs having a wide discretion could (unfairly) leave them open to criticism for not applying the rule consistently.
The 5 seconds wasn't perfect as some club refs I have seen seemed to think holding possession was an advantage which meant frees in the scoring zone weren't given at the expense of a series of aimless handpasses. This extended advantage should prevent this.
This is my concern about the rule.
Just trust the ref, we are looking at ways a ref will make a mistake without even considering the players and management make far more mistakes and even more inconsistent during the game
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 11:31:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
So where is the advantage then? The purpose is to favour the attacker, we wanted to have the games be more attacking, If the attacker claims the high ball inside the 21 from a pass from outside the 40 its to award that skill, the unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
So defenders are basically left helpless. They could be beat to the first ball and do everything right after that and the attacker will still be awarded a gauranteed point. I thought the point of the new rules was to bring back tight contests and 1v1. If you're giving one of those players a huge advantage is that not a bit contradictory?
Quote from: thebigfullforward on February 12, 2025, 08:27:13 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 11:31:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
So where is the advantage then? The purpose is to favour the attacker, we wanted to have the games be more attacking, If the attacker claims the high ball inside the 21 from a pass from outside the 40 its to award that skill, the unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
So defenders are basically left helpless. They could be beat to the first ball and do everything right after that and the attacker will still be awarded a gauranteed point. I thought the point of the new rules was to bring back tight contests and 1v1. If you're giving one of those players a huge advantage is that not a bit contradictory?
Not really, the defender and defenders have an opportunity to win that first ball also, the advance 'mark' was brought in to encourage and reward teams playing attacking football, and kick passing from the 40m line or further to inside the 21, it doesn't happen that much in fairness and I actually don't think it will be a big thing, I'm not entirely sold on the unlimited side of things.
This is coming from a corner back man and boy! who generally gave up most possessions from high balls to win the tackle off the player after he'd claimed it..
The main point I gathered off the new rules was award attacking play, not defenders
Solo and go - what's the right interpretation of it?
I've seen and heard a variety.
Man fouled. Free given. Immediately player continues taking his 4m/4 steps then takes his solo.
Then:
1. One ref allow him to be tackled immediately after this
2. Another ref say that he has 4 more metres steps after the solo before he can be tackled (so 8m/steps in total - seems a massive advantage?)
3. Another ref insist that the player takes his solo immediately/before any steps then gives him the 4m/steps (ala the tap and go in rugby)
So which is it?
Here is the rule as it is written in the rulebook:
"Where a solo & go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the
foul has occurred and must be taken immediately the free has been awarded and without undue
delay unless the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given
to an injured player or to deal with a disciplinary issue. The ball must not travel backwards. A player
taking a solo & go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the solo & go was taken"
So you can take your few steps and then solo (so long as the solo is within 4 metres of where the foul occurred) and then you cannot be tackled for another 4 steps after you take the solo. Rules are clear on this
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 14, 2025, 01:14:07 PMHere is the rule as it is written in the rulebook:
"Where a solo & go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the
foul has occurred and must be taken immediately the free has been awarded and without undue
delay unless the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given
to an injured player or to deal with a disciplinary issue. The ball must not travel backwards. A player
taking a solo & go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the solo & go was taken"
So you can take your few steps and then solo (so long as the solo is within 4 metres of where the foul occurred) and then you cannot be tackled for another 4 steps after you take the solo. Rules are clear on this
So am player can take 4 meters forward from where the foul occurred, solo and go and be allowed another 4 meters before being challened? That's 8 meters the player is gaining, huge difference
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 14, 2025, 01:32:00 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on February 14, 2025, 01:14:07 PMHere is the rule as it is written in the rulebook:
"Where a solo & go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the
foul has occurred and must be taken immediately the free has been awarded and without undue
delay unless the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given
to an injured player or to deal with a disciplinary issue. The ball must not travel backwards. A player
taking a solo & go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the solo & go was taken"
So you can take your few steps and then solo (so long as the solo is within 4 metres of where the foul occurred) and then you cannot be tackled for another 4 steps after you take the solo. Rules are clear on this
So am player can take 4 meters forward from where the foul occurred, solo and go and be allowed another 4 meters before being challened? That's 8 meters the player is gaining, huge difference
Yes, that is what the rule allows for. Don't forget the FRC seemed very keen to get an attacking game with plenty of scores, that might be why the rule is stacked so favourably to the player who was fouled.
If tackled within the 4 metres after the toe tap the ball should be brought up 50 metres.
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 14, 2025, 01:32:00 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on February 14, 2025, 01:14:07 PMHere is the rule as it is written in the rulebook:
"Where a solo & go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the
foul has occurred and must be taken immediately the free has been awarded and without undue
delay unless the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given
to an injured player or to deal with a disciplinary issue. The ball must not travel backwards. A player
taking a solo & go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the solo & go was taken"
So you can take your few steps and then solo (so long as the solo is within 4 metres of where the foul occurred) and then you cannot be tackled for another 4 steps after you take the solo. Rules are clear on this
So am player can take 4 meters forward from where the foul occurred, solo and go and be allowed another 4 meters before being challened? That's 8 meters the player is gaining, huge difference
Where a solo & go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the
foul has occurred and must be taken
immediately You cannot stroll forwards for 4 metres and then decide to solo and go. I presume the 4 metres is to allow for players momentum taking them a few metres away from where the foul was commited.
Fouling is meant to be punished, not a device to allow the fouling team get their defence organised.
The 4m from the foul occurred, is for examples like when a player is fouled resulting in him falling a few meters from the foul due to his momentum. He doesn't have to go back to the fouled spot and then take the tap and go. It does not mean I run 4m then solo and go and then go for another 4m
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on February 14, 2025, 02:20:48 PMThe 4m from the foul occurred, is for examples like when a player is fouled resulting in him falling a few meters from the foul due to his momentum. He doesn't have to go back to the fouled spot and then take the tap and go. It does not mean I run 4m then solo and go and then go for another 4m
But as with my original post, it's being refereed in a different way by different refs, or being explained differently by them at least.
For purposes of clarity imo the solo and go element should be indicated by a player taking the solo on his first/second step after free is awarded, thus indicating that he is taking the 'solo and go.' He should then have 4m free from tackle at this point. Not at least 8 either side of the solo. This is one of the few rules I'm been in favour of since the proposals. Just think it makes it cleaner and more straightforward.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2025, 08:50:42 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on February 12, 2025, 08:27:13 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 11:45:21 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 11:31:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2025, 10:42:02 AMQuote from: statto on February 11, 2025, 10:07:56 AMOn another point the advantage rule is another rule that would wind you up. The advantage should be say 5 seconds if nothing is accrued then give the free. I was at a game at the weekend and the ref on a few occasions let the play go for possibly 20 seconds let the team get a shot off then brought it back for a free in. There will be inconsistencies in this rule within a game as it is down to the ref interpretation never mind week to week.
The advantage rule is unlimited time, 5 seconds 20 seconds or even a minute within that play, its not specified and it will always be the ref's interpretation as it has been for all the rules in a game before this
Makes it difficult for the referee to have consistency across the peace without having a defined limit of time. If a ref played a minute advantage and the team missed opportunity and then got pulled back for a free I would imagine that would cause uproar.
The new rules obviously are in favour of the forward, but it is unfair on defenders e.g. ref plays a 30 second advantage, forward goes for a shot defender makes a great block and this is in vein as the attacking team get the original free.
Having a say 5 second advantage would make things easier on the ref also?
So where is the advantage then? The purpose is to favour the attacker, we wanted to have the games be more attacking, If the attacker claims the high ball inside the 21 from a pass from outside the 40 its to award that skill, the unlimited advantage is to provided a score from play, be it a point or a goal, for me this is least controversial
So defenders are basically left helpless. They could be beat to the first ball and do everything right after that and the attacker will still be awarded a gauranteed point. I thought the point of the new rules was to bring back tight contests and 1v1. If you're giving one of those players a huge advantage is that not a bit contradictory?
Not really, the defender and defenders have an opportunity to win that first ball also, the advance 'mark' was brought in to encourage and reward teams playing attacking football, and kick passing from the 40m line or further to inside the 21, it doesn't happen that much in fairness and I actually don't think it will be a big thing, I'm not entirely sold on the unlimited side of things.
This is coming from a corner back man and boy! who generally gave up most possessions from high balls to win the tackle off the player after he'd claimed it..
The main point I gathered off the new rules was award attacking play, not defenders
It's a stupid rule. You can be beat to a ball as a defender and still make a recovery whether through tackle, block, pressuring a wide or miss etc. or your goalkeeper can make a save, or forward can miss of his own accord. Giving a free hit for winning a ball from a forward mark like this is ridiculous. It removes so many of the skills of being a full back line player. And as another poster pointed out - is contradictory to wanting 'more one on one battles'
Quote from: on the sideline on February 14, 2025, 04:28:52 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on February 14, 2025, 02:20:48 PMThe 4m from the foul occurred, is for examples like when a player is fouled resulting in him falling a few meters from the foul due to his momentum. He doesn't have to go back to the fouled spot and then take the tap and go. It does not mean I run 4m then solo and go and then go for another 4m
But as with my original post, it's being refereed in a different way by different refs, or being explained differently by them at least.
For purposes of clarity imo the solo and go element should be indicated by a player taking the solo on his first/second step after free is awarded, thus indicating that he is taking the 'solo and go.' He should then have 4m free from tackle at this point. Not at least 8 either side of the solo. This is one of the few rules I'm been in favour of since the proposals. Just think it makes it cleaner and more straightforward.
Everyone is still getting up to speed with the new rules, plenty of footballers and refs won't have played/reffed with them yet. It is going to take time for everyone to get an reasonable understanding, sorry to say but perfection is not possible. I agree with your interpretation but it will take time and there will be mistakes.
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on February 14, 2025, 05:00:18 PMQuote from: on the sideline on February 14, 2025, 04:28:52 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on February 14, 2025, 02:20:48 PMThe 4m from the foul occurred, is for examples like when a player is fouled resulting in him falling a few meters from the foul due to his momentum. He doesn't have to go back to the fouled spot and then take the tap and go. It does not mean I run 4m then solo and go and then go for another 4m
But as with my original post, it's being refereed in a different way by different refs, or being explained differently by them at least.
For purposes of clarity imo the solo and go element should be indicated by a player taking the solo on his first/second step after free is awarded, thus indicating that he is taking the 'solo and go.' He should then have 4m free from tackle at this point. Not at least 8 either side of the solo. This is one of the few rules I'm been in favour of since the proposals. Just think it makes it cleaner and more straightforward.
Everyone is still getting up to speed with the new rules, plenty of footballers and refs won't have played/reffed with them yet. It is going to take time for everyone to get an reasonable understanding, sorry to say but perfection is not possible. I agree with your interpretation but it will take time and there will be mistakes.
I get that, but when there's a 50m penalty for breaking the rule then it's hugely important that it is going to be refereed the same by all referees.
I'd get rid of the fly goalie; it's an extra complication, which perhaps helps the attacking team, but there was always a place in football for the less athletic but substantial figure. Compare it with rugby; a teacher once told me he could go into any classroom and ther'd be a place on the rugby team for every kid. Even the short pudgy guys would be vaulable in the front row
Quote from: befair on February 14, 2025, 05:55:11 PMI'd get rid of the fly goalie; it's an extra complication, which perhaps helps the attacking team, but there was always a place in football for the less athletic but substantial figure. Compare it with rugby; a teacher once told me he could go into any classroom and ther'd be a place on the rugby team for every kid. Even the short pudgy guys would be vaulable in the front row
Agreed, if there was a way to make goalies stay 'at home' I'd back it. And to be fair they have their own skill set and would still play a vital role. I'm not a fan at all of them running around in the other half, too many people have become obsessed with it.
Are ye proposing they can only play the ball in their own big square?, or inside the 20?
Or Square and penalty arc?
Quote from: on the sideline on February 14, 2025, 05:35:25 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on February 14, 2025, 05:00:18 PMQuote from: on the sideline on February 14, 2025, 04:28:52 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on February 14, 2025, 02:20:48 PMThe 4m from the foul occurred, is for examples like when a player is fouled resulting in him falling a few meters from the foul due to his momentum. He doesn't have to go back to the fouled spot and then take the tap and go. It does not mean I run 4m then solo and go and then go for another 4m
But as with my original post, it's being refereed in a different way by different refs, or being explained differently by them at least.
For purposes of clarity imo the solo and go element should be indicated by a player taking the solo on his first/second step after free is awarded, thus indicating that he is taking the 'solo and go.' He should then have 4m free from tackle at this point. Not at least 8 either side of the solo. This is one of the few rules I'm been in favour of since the proposals. Just think it makes it cleaner and more straightforward.
Everyone is still getting up to speed with the new rules, plenty of footballers and refs won't have played/reffed with them yet. It is going to take time for everyone to get an reasonable understanding, sorry to say but perfection is not possible. I agree with your interpretation but it will take time and there will be mistakes.
I get that, but when there's a 50m penalty for breaking the rule then it's hugely important that it is going to be refereed the same by all referees.
The defending team just needs to ensure they don't tackle for 4m after the player has taken the solo.
Saying that it's hugely important that it is going to be refereed the same by all referees is an understatement
But when has anyone seen a game refereed the same even by the same ref the next game? Never mind all the ref's doing it the same!
But if he runs 4m then takes his solo, u can't tackle for another 4m, his that work? Man just got a 8m advantage
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 14, 2025, 08:37:34 PMBut if he runs 4m then takes his solo, u can't tackle for another 4m, his that work? Man just got a 8m advantage
No, 4 meters tackle .. once you don't blow for that they'll learn
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2025, 08:44:58 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on February 14, 2025, 08:37:34 PMBut if he runs 4m then takes his solo, u can't tackle for another 4m, his that work? Man just got a 8m advantage
No, 4 meters tackle .. once you don't blow for that they'll learn
By that logic you can tackle before he solos (which I'm certain you can't?!). See what I mean about the uncertainty. Then bang 50m penalty.
Get what you mean about different refs and consistency (& even the same one game to game), but surely this should be crystal clear and universal in its ruling, with no room for ambiguity. With this one it should be easy enough.
But I guess we can say the same for the advantage rules eh?
Quote from: on the sideline on February 14, 2025, 09:02:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2025, 08:44:58 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on February 14, 2025, 08:37:34 PMBut if he runs 4m then takes his solo, u can't tackle for another 4m, his that work? Man just got a 8m advantage
No, 4 meters tackle .. once you don't blow for that they'll learn
By that logic you can tackle before he solos (which I'm certain you can't?!). See what I mean about the uncertainty. Then bang 50m penalty.
Get what you mean about different refs and consistency (& even the same one game to game), but surely this should be crystal clear and universal in its ruling, with no room for ambiguity. With this one it should be easy enough.
But I guess we can say the same for the advantage rules eh?
It's on the player to SOLO and go, not go and solo, that's how I'll approach it.
I'm out tomorrow, challenge game, should be interesting to see how players are adapting to the rules
Also if the pitch isn't properly lined I'll not be following the 40meter rule.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2025, 06:37:10 PMAre ye proposing they can only play the ball in their own big square?, or inside the 20?
Or Square and penalty arc?
Well for talk sake, could they be allowed to play the ball inside the 20, but not allowed to catch it outside the 20. That would keep them mostly at home, which would be my preference. We've become obsessed with goalkeepers, to the detriment in my opinion. As I said, they have a great goalkeeping skill set, and should stick to that.
https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=hrxFrNSvpUKfwz6H4bd_zq1V2frnb-FJnS9jn6gmgFNUOTBZT0JBWUJYSUhTMUg3OEM0RUU2SDdTNi4u
Football Review Committee National Football League Public Survey
Anyone who thinks the new rules haven't helped the game needs their head felt. Helped it... saved it!
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 15, 2025, 06:35:50 PMAnyone who thinks the new rules haven't helped the game needs their head felt. Helped it... saved it!
Some I didn't originally like are growing on me. But apart from handing the ball back after a foul the main one I really dont like is the 40m kickout arc.
As it sits, the kickout rule is more like a punishment for the team taking it. Your own restart is now a lottery. You should be able to use all space available on the pitch on your kickout, not have it restricted to try to help the opponent.
The rule isn't needed now either - especially now the goalkeeper is no longer an option for an easy out, short kickouts can be pressed.
So teams can press the shorts & still force the long kickout - giving the best of both worlds & variation. Not just hit it long & see what happens.
Quote from: on the sideline on February 15, 2025, 08:52:54 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 15, 2025, 06:35:50 PMAnyone who thinks the new rules haven't helped the game needs their head felt. Helped it... saved it!
Some I didn't originally like are growing on me. But apart from handing the ball back after a foul the main one I really dont like is the 40m kickout arc.
As it sits, the kickout rule is more like a punishment for the team taking it. Your own restart is now a lottery. You should be able to use all space available on the pitch on your kickout, not have it restricted to try to help the opponent.
The rule isn't needed now either - especially now the goalkeeper is no longer an option for an easy out, short kickouts can be pressed.
So teams can press the shorts & still force the long kickout - giving the best of both worlds & variation. Not just hit it long & see what happens.
I enjoy the long ball out the field contest and see who can win it...
I'm loving these rules. Two great games today. The game was dying...
The game was dying but the attendances still look pretty pathetic despite the lure of the new rules, a really competitive league where anyone could beat anyone and there was no Pre season competitions. This is the 2nd most important competition nationally
Quote from: Brendan on February 15, 2025, 09:24:33 PMThe game was dying but the attendances still look pretty pathetic despite the lure of the new rules, a really competitive league where anyone could beat anyone and there was no Pre season competitions. This is the 2nd most important competition nationally
Seemed to good crowds... its February night!
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 15, 2025, 09:27:19 PMQuote from: Brendan on February 15, 2025, 09:24:33 PMThe game was dying but the attendances still look pretty pathetic despite the lure of the new rules, a really competitive league where anyone could beat anyone and there was no Pre season competitions. This is the 2nd most important competition nationally
Seemed to good crowds... its February night!
Celtic park wouldn't even be half full for the 2 games I've been at, Salthill and Castlebar are always half empty. Outside of Armagh as all ireland champions and Kerry home games I'd be concerned
Kerry and Dublin was sold out.
Probably 13k capacity.
Salthill 25k, Castlebar 28k will always look half empty for League games in Jan/Feb/Mar.
Derry never had much support.
Quote from: Brendan on February 15, 2025, 09:24:33 PMThe game was dying but the attendances still look pretty pathetic despite the lure of the new rules, a really competitive league where anyone could beat anyone and there was no Pre season competitions. This is the 2nd most important competition nationally
Not really, Armagh are bringing 80,000 to Corrigan
The new rules will be the death knell for the Provincials, there will some horror show drubbings.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 15, 2025, 10:52:53 PMThe new rules will be the death knell for the Provincials, there will some horror show drubbings.
Leinster and Munster already gone.
There have always been drubbings. And so there should be.
I just Googled the 1975 championship:
Louth 2-22 Wicklow 2-06
Dublin 3-13 Kildare 0-8
Tipperary 7-15 Limerick 1-5
Kerry 3-13 Tipperary 0-9
Down 3-12 Antrim 0-7
Derry 2-15 Armagh 1-7
Kerry 3-13 Sligo 0-5
With score inflation they'll be embarrassing
Quote from: bennydorano on February 15, 2025, 11:04:20 PMWith score inflation they'll be embarrassing
They are embarrassing. Is why in hurling every team isn't fired into same competition
Attendance ain't helped by £18 per ticket.
Quote from: ONeill on February 15, 2025, 11:03:01 PMThere have always been drubbings. And so there should be.
I just Googled the 1975 championship:
Louth 2-22 Wicklow 2-06
Dublin 3-13 Kildare 0-8
Tipperary 7-15 Limerick 1-5
Kerry 3-13 Tipperary 0-9
Down 3-12 Antrim 0-7
Derry 2-15 Armagh 1-7
Kerry 3-13 Sligo 0-5
Goals were easy come by back then - handpass to the net.
Is the solo and go rule being properly refereed. I thought it was it says solo and go from spot of the free. Last night it was solo and go from where the ball was when the free was awarded. Then on top of that there were 3 or 4 times when players went and then solo'd ie after 4 steps meaning they were getting nearly 10m before they could be tackled.
What exactly is the rule?
Quote from: David McKeown on February 16, 2025, 12:53:19 PMIs the solo and go rule being properly refereed. I thought it was it says solo and go from spot of the free. Last night it was solo and go from where the ball was when the free was awarded. Then on top of that there were 3 or 4 times when players went and then solo'd ie after 4 steps meaning they were getting nearly 10m before they could be tackled.
What exactly is the rule?
You can take it from within 4m of where the foul took place (to allow for momentum) then you have 4m until the opposition can tackle.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2025, 01:05:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 16, 2025, 12:53:19 PMIs the solo and go rule being properly refereed. I thought it was it says solo and go from spot of the free. Last night it was solo and go from where the ball was when the free was awarded. Then on top of that there were 3 or 4 times when players went and then solo'd ie after 4 steps meaning they were getting nearly 10m before they could be tackled.
What exactly is the rule?
You can take it from within 4m of where the foul took place (to allow for momentum) then you have 4m until the opposition can tackle.
That's not what it should be if that's happening, the free is from where the ref blows, the player should get protection for 4m (similar to the Mark) he can't get an extended 4 meters.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2025, 03:34:45 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2025, 01:05:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 16, 2025, 12:53:19 PMIs the solo and go rule being properly refereed. I thought it was it says solo and go from spot of the free. Last night it was solo and go from where the ball was when the free was awarded. Then on top of that there were 3 or 4 times when players went and then solo'd ie after 4 steps meaning they were getting nearly 10m before they could be tackled.
What exactly is the rule?
You can take it from within 4m of where the foul took place (to allow for momentum) then you have 4m until the opposition can tackle.
That's not what it should be if that's happening, the free is from where the ref blows, the player should get protection for 4m (similar to the Mark) he can't get an extended 4 meters.
I heard one of the FRC gang on the radio 2 weeks ago and while he was clear as Cavan mud, I picked it up as they get 4m protection from their tap rather than their start point. So if a player takes off for 4m / 4 steps, then taps, he basically gets 8m. Which sounded to me like a ridiculous advantage but hey ho.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 16, 2025, 04:09:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2025, 03:34:45 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2025, 01:05:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 16, 2025, 12:53:19 PMIs the solo and go rule being properly refereed. I thought it was it says solo and go from spot of the free. Last night it was solo and go from where the ball was when the free was awarded. Then on top of that there were 3 or 4 times when players went and then solo'd ie after 4 steps meaning they were getting nearly 10m before they could be tackled.
What exactly is the rule?
You can take it from within 4m of where the foul took place (to allow for momentum) then you have 4m until the opposition can tackle.
That's not what it should be if that's happening, the free is from where the ref blows, the player should get protection for 4m (similar to the Mark) he can't get an extended 4 meters.
I heard one of the FRC gang on the radio 2 weeks ago and while he was clear as Cavan mud, I picked it up as they get 4m protection from their tap rather than their start point. So if a player takes off for 4m / 4 steps, then taps, he basically gets 8m. Which sounded to me like a ridiculous advantage but hey ho.
I'll not be giving it, in fairness I'll speak to captains and managers beforehand so it's not a surprise
Should tap once u fouled them 4m after that. Alot of fouls the men are standing still,they shouldn't be going 4m before a solo
I'm not giving 8 meters if a player can't make use of that distance then take the free.
Also if I'm taking a name, there's no advantage of the tap and go
Question for Milltown
I half heard McStay this evening talking about goalkeepers and 20 seconds.
Is there a new requirement for kick outs?
Some of the penalties for infringements are way out of proportion to the crime,
e.g. awarding a 14 metre free for a minor infringement in the other half of the field.
Why even bother with the free - who is going to miss a 14 metre free ?
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2025, 08:02:58 PMQuestion for Milltown
I half heard McStay this evening talking about goalkeepers and 20 seconds.
Is there a new requirement for kick outs?
20 seconds has always been the preferred time let's say for a free, same for keeper, the keeper address the ball and it should be no more than 20 seconds.. I think with introduction of the clock it's being probably more enforced?
Canning saying no additional time played in Derry v Galway.
Did no one tell him about the clock?
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2025, 10:13:36 PMCanning saying no additional time played in Derry v Galway.
Did no one tell him about the clock?
This is what you're up against !
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2025, 08:02:58 PMQuestion for Milltown
I half heard McStay this evening talking about goalkeepers and 20 seconds.
Is there a new requirement for kick outs?
Yeah if penalised it's a free in rather than throw up.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on February 16, 2025, 08:06:22 PMSome of the penalties for infringements are way out of proportion to the crime,
e.g. awarding a 14 metre free for a minor infringement in the other half of the field.
Why even bother with the free - who is going to miss a 14 metre free ?
That's actually very true. You might as well just add the point on, with no free kick, when this happens.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2025, 09:51:00 PMQuote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2025, 08:02:58 PMQuestion for Milltown
I half heard McStay this evening talking about goalkeepers and 20 seconds.
Is there a new requirement for kick outs?
20 seconds has always been the preferred time let's say for a free, same for keeper, the keeper address the ball and it should be no more than 20 seconds.. I think with introduction of the clock it's being probably more enforced?
"I don't know" is a good enough answer too. ;D
Canavan spoke about it there. Referees were given a directive on it this week but it wasn't communicated to managers and players.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2025, 10:46:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2025, 09:51:00 PMQuote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2025, 08:02:58 PMQuestion for Milltown
I half heard McStay this evening talking about goalkeepers and 20 seconds.
Is there a new requirement for kick outs?
20 seconds has always been the preferred time let's say for a free, same for keeper, the keeper address the ball and it should be no more than 20 seconds.. I think with introduction of the clock it's being probably more enforced?
"I don't know" is a good enough answer too. ;D
Canavan spoke about it there. Referees were given a directive on it this week but it wasn't communicated to managers and players.
It's all fluid at this point.. we've a few outstanding queries, which from speaking to other ref's doing games are still not sure what they are doing is correct and players and managers in the same boat
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 16, 2025, 10:46:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2025, 09:51:00 PMQuote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2025, 08:02:58 PMQuestion for Milltown
I half heard McStay this evening talking about goalkeepers and 20 seconds.
Is there a new requirement for kick outs?
20 seconds has always been the preferred time let's say for a free, same for keeper, the keeper address the ball and it should be no more than 20 seconds.. I think with introduction of the clock it's being probably more enforced?
"I don't know" is a good enough answer too. ;D
Canavan spoke about it there. Referees were given a directive on it this week but it wasn't communicated to managers and players.
The communication from the FRC would appear to need some work, maybe an idea to inform all relevant stakeholders what the rules are.
I was wondering had I missed something as I read the new rules a few times and never saw any mention re changing the penalty for delaying kickouts from a hop ball to actually conceding a 13m free.
Some of the penalties are too severe with these rules
Quote from: galwayman on February 17, 2025, 08:29:04 AMI was wondering had I missed something as I read the new rules a few times and never saw any mention re changing the penalty for delaying kickouts from a hop ball to actually conceding a 13m free.
Some of the penalties are too severe with these rules
Yeah I agree
I was also surprised by the 13m free for a delayed kickout. Watching matches on TV I can't say I understand what the rules are. Solo and go appears to be taken whatever way a player fancies and the delaying a free kick / handing the ball back is not consistently applied. It needs defined properly as being a deliberate action to delay a restart (e.g. kicking, throwing ball away, stepping in front of the kicker) or better still removed. In the Derry games I have watched two players have been penalised whilst on the ground with little realistic chance of getting up and one appeared to be penalised as he thought he had taken a mark when it was a free against. In Kerry v Dublin a player dropped the ball at the Dublin man's feet without being penalised when as I understand the rule he should have been.
The 50 penalty, didn't stop Armagh players getting in the refs ear when Donegal had been awarded a 21m free as they knew it would make no difference if it was brought in. It is a disproportionate punishment for anything that happens between the 45s.
QuoteCanning saying no additional time played in Derry v Galway.
Did no one tell him about the clock?
Darragh Maloney said the same the other week as well, and worse still he said at the end of the match that similar to the first half there appears to be no additional time at the end of the match....
Between the media and the GAAboard naysayers .......
I've a fairly trivial question for the refs and anyone else who might know.
A few times during the Down - Meath match at the weekend a ball hit the stop nets and came back onto the pitch. The keeper grabbed a different ball to set up quickly for his kickout. The ref didn't allow the keeper to hit a kickout until the 2nd ball was removed, which the keeper then had to do because umpires don't seem to be allowed to do this anymore.
If I was the goalkeeper, and looking to waste time, could I just leave the 2nd ball there and wait for someone else to remove it?
Quote from: John Martin on February 17, 2025, 12:53:52 PMI've a fairly trivial question for the refs and anyone else who might know.
A few times during the Down - Meath match at the weekend a ball hit the stop nets and came back onto the pitch. The keeper grabbed a different ball to set up quickly for his kickout. The ref didn't allow the keeper to hit a kickout until the 2nd ball was removed, which the keeper then had to do because umpires don't seem to be allowed to do this anymore.
If I was the goalkeeper, and looking to waste time, could I just leave the 2nd ball there and wait for someone else to remove it?
You could, its not down to the umpires to collect the balls, ever, different at the club games when its the members doing it. The ref now has the opportunity to cross his hands above his head and stop the clock if someone is taking the piss.. Ive seen club games where someone on the sideline was throwing a ball on to do exactly that
Yes, a few years ago, in the Down championship final, there was an epidemic of balls being chucked onto the field in injury time. Happened for a few years in succession.....
I only get to watch the games on TV but I still don't find them very exciting to watch.I like the kick out,the solo and go,and the no talking back to the referee.Handpassing has taken over and the only kick passing is if there's no one within 10 yards of the person the ball is being passed to.Some nice 2 pointers being kicked and it seems like a team always has a chance to come back.I think it will get a lot more boring when the stakes get higher and the coaches figure things out.It also seems to be the case that no one wants to criticize the enhancements either.What do you people think that are actually at the games
How long will the GAA stick with this idea of artificially creating more scoring with 2 point shots? Clearly they have not thought this rule out long term because they aren't going to like what they see once managers figure out the strategy for it.
Being North American, the moment I heard about the 2 pointer I immediately thought about the NCAA introducing the 3 point shot to basketball. It took a decade for coaches to eventually adapt, so I don't blame GAA managers for not having figured it out yet. However after ten years all coaches had set their offence around the 3 point shot. Consequently all defence strategy was planned around stopping the 3 pointer. Thus basketball, which had great strategic diversity, succumbed to Group Think and every team has been playing the exact same game for a quarter century.
What's going to happen regarding the 2 pointer in Gaelic football? Eventually every team will run their offence to set up the 2 point shot. You're going to see less goals because goal chances are very low percentage and only net one extra point. Load your lineup with 5 long kickers and bombs away! Every team will end up playing the same strategy and same defence against that strategy(if you can defence it when the goalkeeper provides an odd man advantage).
But it will get worse. Case in point Dublin v Kerry(in the wind!). Dublin won that game because they held the ball 3 minutes at a time, whereas Kerry ran its regular offence. Going against a wind which does not allow you to kick 2 pointers(but allows your opposition easy 2 point shots) time is more valuable than points. Teams need to simply bring up their goalkeeper for an extra player then hold the ball. There's nothing in the rules against them holding it 35 minutes. Is there?
About this assumption that it's now harder to protect a lead. When your opposition has the potential of scoring 2 pointers every possession, the smart play is to get the ball over centre, bring up your keeper then run the clock down. Ultimately you are going to see games slowed down dramatically.
It is just a question of time before one smarter manager figures this out. Then the Group Think will set in. The 2 pointer is going to turn Gaelic football into a basketball game. I advise they drop the 2 pointer before the provincial championships.
Quote from: EoinW on February 17, 2025, 11:04:24 PMHow long will the GAA stick with this idea of artificially creating more scoring with 2 point shots? Clearly they have not thought this rule out long term because they aren't going to like what they see once managers figure out the strategy for it.
Being North American, the moment I heard about the 2 pointer I immediately thought about the NCAA introducing the 3 point shot to basketball. It took a decade for coaches to eventually adapt, so I don't blame GAA managers for not having figured it out yet. However after ten years all coaches had set their offence around the 3 point shot. Consequently all defence strategy was planned around stopping the 3 pointer. Thus basketball, which had great strategic diversity, succumbed to Group Think and every team has been playing the exact same game for a quarter century.
What's going to happen regarding the 2 pointer in Gaelic football? Eventually every team will run their offence to set up the 2 point shot. You're going to see less goals because goal chances are very low percentage and only net one extra point. Load your lineup with 5 long kickers and bombs away! Every team will end up playing the same strategy and same defence against that strategy(if you can defence it when the goalkeeper provides an odd man advantage).
But it will get worse. Case in point Dublin v Kerry(in the wind!). Dublin won that game because they held the ball 3 minutes at a time, whereas Kerry ran its regular offence. Going against a wind which does not allow you to kick 2 pointers(but allows your opposition easy 2 point shots) time is more valuable than points. Teams need to simply bring up their goalkeeper for an extra player then hold the ball. There's nothing in the rules against them holding it 35 minutes. Is there?
About this assumption that it's now harder to protect a lead. When your opposition has the potential of scoring 2 pointers every possession, the smart play is to get the ball over centre, bring up your keeper then run the clock down. Ultimately you are going to see games slowed down dramatically.
It is just a question of time before one smarter manager figures this out. Then the Group Think will set in. The 2 pointer is going to turn Gaelic football into a basketball game. I advise they drop the 2 pointer before the provincial championships.
I'm in agreement Eoin and as I pointed out on the div 1 thread, goals are already drying up there, with one team, Donegal (with game's prime tactical innovator at the helm) have yet to score a goal.
The 100% increase in value of a point from outside the arc is so significant that the maths behind going for the low percentage goal option rarely makes sense.
Quote from: EoinW on February 17, 2025, 11:04:24 PMHow long will the GAA stick with this idea of artificially creating more scoring with 2 point shots? Clearly they have not thought this rule out long term because they aren't going to like what they see once managers figure out the strategy for it.
Being North American, the moment I heard about the 2 pointer I immediately thought about the NCAA introducing the 3 point shot to basketball. It took a decade for coaches to eventually adapt, so I don't blame GAA managers for not having figured it out yet. However after ten years all coaches had set their offence around the 3 point shot. Consequently all defence strategy was planned around stopping the 3 pointer. Thus basketball, which had great strategic diversity, succumbed to Group Think and every team has been playing the exact same game for a quarter century.
What's going to happen regarding the 2 pointer in Gaelic football? Eventually every team will run their offence to set up the 2 point shot. You're going to see less goals because goal chances are very low percentage and only net one extra point. Load your lineup with 5 long kickers and bombs away! Every team will end up playing the same strategy and same defence against that strategy(if you can defence it when the goalkeeper provides an odd man advantage).
But it will get worse. Case in point Dublin v Kerry(in the wind!). Dublin won that game because they held the ball 3 minutes at a time, whereas Kerry ran its regular offence. Going against a wind which does not allow you to kick 2 pointers(but allows your opposition easy 2 point shots) time is more valuable than points. Teams need to simply bring up their goalkeeper for an extra player then hold the ball. There's nothing in the rules against them holding it 35 minutes. Is there?
About this assumption that it's now harder to protect a lead. When your opposition has the potential of scoring 2 pointers every possession, the smart play is to get the ball over centre, bring up your keeper then run the clock down. Ultimately you are going to see games slowed down dramatically.
It is just a question of time before one smarter manager figures this out. Then the Group Think will set in. The 2 pointer is going to turn Gaelic football into a basketball game. I advise they drop the 2 pointer before the provincial championships.
yeah the wind is gonna be a major factor, it already was to an extent with just the regular scoring, my fear is instead of rowing back theyll double down and go for the 4 pt goal again. just leave the scoring ffs
3 games in reflections.
The problems with the game of football were 15 men behind the ball, using the goalkeeper to play keep ball and the fact that the rules in place were not being fully utilised.
So sort those out by:
Keep the 3 v 3
No backpass to keeper in either half.
Apply the rules e.g.
If there is a foul on a 2v2 throw up blow it.
If a ref hears verbals give the player a black card.
That's all the game needs. Easier to ref at all levels as well.
I'm working my way through previous posts and want to thank everyone for their comments. It's interesting to read so many different opinions.
One which caught my attention was this idea "the game is dying." I hadn't noticed. In fact, with scoring in the teens most games, I thought it was looking pretty good. Certainly the Ulster championship is as good as it has ever been(ignoring the actual championship game being decided by penalty kicks!!!).
I thought the only problem was a certain lack of competitiveness, with Dublin/Kerry dominating Leinster/Munster. But when has Dublin and Kerry NOT dominated their province?
Getting back to the 'game is dying" idea. I went back to 1925 for a random peek into the past. Setting aside all the protested games - my goodness Gaelic footballers must have been sensitive souls back then!(or they were all a bunch of cheaters!) - there wasn't even an All-Ireland Final. Mayo defeated Wexford in one Semi Final, with the other two Provincial champs disqualified. Then two months later Mayo lost the Connacht Final to Galway and the GAA declared Galway All-Ireland champs.
Now that kind of chaos is my idea of the game dying. Yet Gaelic football survived that and a century later looks much better.
BTW go check out some of the scores from the 1925 championship. The one that amazed me was the Munster final: Kerry 5-5 Clare 0-0.
I suggest the doomsters view the modern game with some historic perspective. Remember the purpose of the championships is to decide the best county in each province and the best county in Ireland. The purpose of the GAA is not to legislate parity. Go watch the NFL if you want that.
Quote from: The Trap on February 18, 2025, 12:24:49 PM3 games in reflections.
The problems with the game of football were 15 men behind the ball, using the goalkeeper to play keep ball and the fact that the rules in place were not being fully utilised.
So sort those out by:
Keep the 3 v 3
No backpass to keeper in either half.
Apply the rules e.g.
If there is a foul on a 2v2 throw up blow it.
If a ref hears verbals give the player a black card.
That's all the game needs. Easier to ref at all levels as well.
While I don't mind some of the other rules, but I'd agree with you Trap, the all levels being the key part here
Quote from: The Trap on February 18, 2025, 12:24:49 PM3 games in reflections.
The problems with the game of football were 15 men behind the ball, using the goalkeeper to play keep ball and the fact that the rules in place were not being fully utilised.
So sort those out by:
Keep the 3 v 3
No backpass to keeper in either half.
Apply the rules e.g.
If there is a foul on a 2v2 throw up blow it.
If a ref hears verbals give the player a black card.
That's all the game needs. Easier to ref at all levels as well.
My initial thoughts were just to keep the 3 v3 and let everything else remain as it is and see where we go.
The solo and go has been a welcome addition also.
I have saw a few club challenge games and the rules have been in the main beneficial. Some of the club sides obviously don't have keepers like Beggan/Morgan/Rafferty who can make a real difference in the 12 v 11.
I was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
What was also mad was in 2024 you'd go to a big inter Co Championship match and despite 10,20,30k or more spectators there was almost dead silence for 90% of the game.
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
Quote from: statto on February 19, 2025, 10:17:43 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
I hadn't seen it anywhere before and he's the only one who pointed this out to me, so I don't know with certainty. But he's a ref, so should know.
Any resident referee's know if this is the case?
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:23:48 AMQuote from: statto on February 19, 2025, 10:17:43 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
I hadn't seen it anywhere before and he's the only one who pointed this out to me, so I don't know with certainty. But he's a ref, so should know.
Any resident referee's know if this is the case?
Imagine playing a championship final and three up and this happens at end of game.
If you do the crime......
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:23:48 AMQuote from: statto on February 19, 2025, 10:17:43 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
I hadn't seen it anywhere before and he's the only one who pointed this out to me, so I don't know with certainty. But he's a ref, so should know.
Any resident referee's know if this is the case?
Does this not highlight the need to publish the fecking rules somewhere?
Quote from: David McKeown on February 19, 2025, 11:55:39 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:23:48 AMQuote from: statto on February 19, 2025, 10:17:43 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
I hadn't seen it anywhere before and he's the only one who pointed this out to me, so I don't know with certainty. But he's a ref, so should know.
Any resident referee's know if this is the case?
Does this not highlight the need to publish the fecking rules somewhere?
Yep. Would be very easy to do as well, drop them onto the GAA.ie website and that is the single source of truth for the rules.
The committee can change as they see fit and subscribers to the site could be notified automatically of changes. Not rocket science and not costly to implement.
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 12:08:04 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 19, 2025, 11:55:39 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:23:48 AMQuote from: statto on February 19, 2025, 10:17:43 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
I hadn't seen it anywhere before and he's the only one who pointed this out to me, so I don't know with certainty. But he's a ref, so should know.
Any resident referee's know if this is the case?
Does this not highlight the need to publish the fecking rules somewhere?
Yep. Would be very easy to do as well, drop them onto the GAA.ie website and that is the single source of truth for the rules.
The committee can change as they see fit and subscribers to the site could be notified automatically of changes. Not rocket science and not costly to implement.
Many years ago I was involved in a similar process. You'd be amazed how complex something like that can be made.
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:23:48 AMQuote from: statto on February 19, 2025, 10:17:43 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
I hadn't seen it anywhere before and he's the only one who pointed this out to me, so I don't know with certainty. But he's a ref, so should know.
Any resident referee's know if this is the case?
It was brought up at a meeting I was at recently, again, one of the many rules that have been mentioned but seeking clarification on it. Was saving that for a county final, can ya imagine the carnage lol
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2025, 10:09:05 AMWhat was also mad was in 2024 you'd go to a big inter Co Championship match and despite 10,20,30k or more spectators there was almost dead silence for 90% of the game.
This is sadly true; particularly remember the Lout-Cork championship game; ground was packed, excitement at fever-pitch, then after 20 seconds endless handpassing around the 45, and the atmosphere became dead as a dodo
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2025, 10:09:05 AMWhat was also mad was in 2024 you'd go to a big inter Co Championship match and despite 10,20,30k or more spectators there was almost dead silence for 90% of the game.
Yeah, definite downside of these new rules will be the lack of in game updates from spectators (this will be particularly bothersome for non-televised games, especially at club level).
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2025, 11:06:58 AMIf you do the crime......
...You should be sentenced to death for daring to question a referee no matter if his decision was right or complete bull?
Quote from: thebigfullforward on February 20, 2025, 09:59:41 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2025, 11:06:58 AMIf you do the crime......
...You should be sentenced to death for daring to question a referee no matter if his decision was right or complete bull?
I could run with that, maybe settle for a taser though
Look it will be down to the individual referee to determine what is dissent, idle chat or mild frustration is (for me) acceptable, that's purely my own view. As a player its very hard on the emotions , but players now will have to redirect that differently
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:23:48 AMQuote from: statto on February 19, 2025, 10:17:43 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
I hadn't seen it anywhere before and he's the only one who pointed this out to me, so I don't know with certainty. But he's a ref, so should know.
Any resident referee's know if this is the case?
Was at a club meeting regarding the new rules and this was mentioned.
However, the way it was explained was that if the remonstrating continued after the penalty was taken then the referee could award a free which could be a 2-pointer. For example, as players and referee are running back out to their positions after the penalty is scored and a sub or manager shouts at the referee then he can award the free.
Quote from: cornerback on February 20, 2025, 12:29:47 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:23:48 AMQuote from: statto on February 19, 2025, 10:17:43 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:39 AMI was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).
Mad.
Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.
I hadn't seen it anywhere before and he's the only one who pointed this out to me, so I don't know with certainty. But he's a ref, so should know.
Any resident referee's know if this is the case?
Was at a club meeting regarding the new rules and this was mentioned.
However, the way it was explained was that if the remonstrating continued after the penalty was taken then the referee could award a free which could be a 2-pointer. For example, as players and referee are running back out to their positions after the penalty is scored and a sub or manager shouts at the referee then he can award the free.
I wanna know if I can punish the lad saying to me that the opposing player is giving dissent can we move the ball forward?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2025, 10:33:47 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on February 20, 2025, 09:59:41 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2025, 11:06:58 AMIf you do the crime......
...You should be sentenced to death for daring to question a referee no matter if his decision was right or complete bull?
Ah excellent another potentially impactful rule that will likely be inconsistently applied. That's not going to create frustration amongst players or supporters.
I could run with that, maybe settle for a taser though
Look it will be down to the individual referee to determine what is dissent, idle chat or mild frustration is (for me) acceptable, that's purely my own view. As a player its very hard on the emotions , but players now will have to redirect that differently
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2025, 10:33:47 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on February 20, 2025, 09:59:41 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2025, 11:06:58 AMIf you do the crime......
...You should be sentenced to death for daring to question a referee no matter if his decision was right or complete bull?
I could run with that, maybe settle for a taser though
Look it will be down to the individual referee to determine what is dissent, idle chat or mild frustration is (for me) acceptable, that's purely my own view. As a player its very hard on the emotions , but players now will have to redirect that differently
2 Questions that came up from meeting tonight:
1. If taking the solo and go, during the first 4 steps or metres if I look up and see a kick pass or hand pass is on, can I make the pass? As in before I take the solo part of 'solo and go'
2. If I'm fouled just outside the 21 and solo and go, do I still get the protection from being tackled for the 8m or is it game on when I cross the 21?
What 8 meters?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
Quote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
ow however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m.
You'll not get 8m I wouldn't think.
It's a very good rule but tricky to police to the letter.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2025, 04:28:34 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
ow however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m.
You'll not get 8m I wouldn't think.
It's a very good rule but tricky to police to the letter.
Great rule. Speeds up the game and cut out the unnecessary holding the ball/scuffling when a free is awarded.
I think we, the referees and the players, will have a far better grasp of the rules after the league. Judge them then.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2025, 04:28:34 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
ow however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m.
You'll not get 8m I wouldn't think.
It's a very good rule but tricky to police to the letter.
We've been told by Ulster Council official and backed up by referees at meeting on Monday night that you can take the solo within 4m of where the foul occurred then have 4 more after where you can't be touched - so in essence that's 8m. Ok maybe need to solo before the 4m, but that's still 7m at least of not being able to be touched. The ulster council official and referees were put over this repeatedly and that is how it was explained.
So my questions from our team meeting remain:
1. If taking the solo and go, during the first 4 steps or metres if I look up and see a kick pass or hand pass is on, can I make the pass? As in before I take the solo part of 'solo and go'
2. If I'm fouled just outside the 21 and solo and go, do I still get the protection from being tackled for the 8m or is it game on when I cross the 21?
Quote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 08:19:40 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2025, 04:28:34 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
ow however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m.
You'll not get 8m I wouldn't think.
It's a very good rule but tricky to police to the letter.
We've been told by Ulster Council official and backed up by referees at meeting on Monday night that you can take the solo within 4m of where the foul occurred then have 4 more after where you can't be touched - so in essence that's 8m. Ok maybe need to solo before the 4m, but that's still 7m at least of not being able to be touched. The ulster council official and referees were put over this repeatedly and that is how it was explained.
So my questions remain:
Think thats abit much.
Imo the best rule would give 4m from where the foul actually was to allow for momentum etc if you are being fouled, take the solo immediately and then you get 4 clear metres of not being touched.
Quote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 08:19:40 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2025, 04:28:34 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
ow however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m.
You'll not get 8m I wouldn't think.
It's a very good rule but tricky to police to the letter.
We've been told by Ulster Council official and backed up by referees at meeting on Monday night that you can take the solo within 4m of where the foul occurred then have 4 more after where you can't be touched - so in essence that's 8m. Ok maybe need to solo before the 4m, but that's still 7m at least of not being able to be touched. The ulster council official and referees were put over this repeatedly and that is how it was explained.
So my questions remain:
I was told you can't tackle for 4 metres. Same as the Mark rule. If the player decides to run 4 meters then solo I'm allowing a tackle at 4 meters. Why mention 4 meters in the first place?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 08:25:37 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 08:19:40 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2025, 04:28:34 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
ow however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m.
You'll not get 8m I wouldn't think.
It's a very good rule but tricky to police to the letter.
We've been told by Ulster Council official and backed up by referees at meeting on Monday night that you can take the solo within 4m of where the foul occurred then have 4 more after where you can't be touched - so in essence that's 8m. Ok maybe need to solo before the 4m, but that's still 7m at least of not being able to be touched. The ulster council official and referees were put over this repeatedly and that is how it was explained.
So my questions remain:
I was told you can't tackle for 4 metres. Same as the Mark rule. If the player decides to run 4 meters then solo I'm allowing a tackle at 4 meters. Why mention 4 meters in the first place?
Like I said this is what we've been told. You've got to take the solo within 4m and then have 4 more after it (or you can give the ball to someone within 4m of the original foul and they can take the solo and go - but their solo must be within 4m of the foul) Can't be touched until after that. They were put over it repeatedly.
Quote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 08:25:37 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 08:19:40 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2025, 04:28:34 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
ow however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m.
You'll not get 8m I wouldn't think.
It's a very good rule but tricky to police to the letter.
We've been told by Ulster Council official and backed up by referees at meeting on Monday night that you can take the solo within 4m of where the foul occurred then have 4 more after where you can't be touched - so in essence that's 8m. Ok maybe need to solo before the 4m, but that's still 7m at least of not being able to be touched. The ulster council official and referees were put over this repeatedly and that is how it was explained.
So my questions remain:
I was told you can't tackle for 4 metres. Same as the Mark rule. If the player decides to run 4 meters then solo I'm allowing a tackle at 4 meters. Why mention 4 meters in the first place?
Like I said this is what we've been told. You've got to take the solo within 4m and then have 4 more after it (or you can give the ball to someone within 4m of the original foul and they can take the solo and go - but their solo must be within 4m of the foul) Can't be touched until after that. They were put over it repeatedly.
It's entirely changed from its original (as have others) rule. This is a different rule. As you've asked if I'm just outside the 21 I can't be touched for 8 meters, if so that's a penalty? That's bonkers
Quote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
Thats how it was referee'd in the Dublin Kerry game but I am not sure thats the rule. In fact on occasion it was start run within 4 metres of the foul run 4 metres solo then get another 4m before a tackle could come in. Effectively giving nearly 12m from the spot of the foul.
I thought I liked initially and I can see some promise but I think it needs tightened up.
Also can you block a shot or pass within the 4m as opposed to tackle or charge or what exactly is the rule?
On the new forward mark what happens if you commit a technical foul in the 'free attack' you get? Is it like the previous rule where the free was supposed to be reversed or does it go back for the mark?
Quote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 09:25:07 AMOn the new forward mark what happens if you commit a technical foul in the 'free attack' you get? Is it like the previous rule where the free was supposed to be reversed or does it go back for the mark?
Back to the Mark
Been to one club game. The 3v3 was constantly breached and only on one occasion did one of the teams highlight it and it got them a free when the other team was in a scoring position.
The kick outs completely ruined the game, one team was much bigger and the other team were losing their own kick out constantly.
The 'dissent' rule isn't really that though,a player shouted how long when opposition player was running and tbf it prob was too long. Ref blew the whistle and gave the free. How is that right? Apparently the ref said the player was giving off to him. But surely shouting too long is more to do with putting the other man off. That rule needs binned, just give a yellow or black for anyone acting the p***k and that'll do
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on February 22, 2025, 10:57:51 AMBeen to one club game. The 3v3 was constantly breached and only on one occasion did one of the teams highlight it and it got them a free when the other team was in a scoring position.
The kick outs completely ruined the game, one team was much bigger and the other team were losing their own kick out constantly.
The 'dissent' rule isn't really that though,a player shouted how long when opposition player was running and tbf it prob was too long. Ref blew the whistle and gave the free. How is that right? Apparently the ref said the player was giving off to him. But surely shouting too long is more to do with putting the other man off. That rule needs binned, just give a yellow or black for anyone acting the p***k and that'll do
Be a no from Jim Gavin.
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 22, 2025, 10:46:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 09:25:07 AMOn the new forward mark what happens if you commit a technical foul in the 'free attack' you get? Is it like the previous rule where the free was supposed to be reversed or does it go back for the mark?
Back to the Mark
So there's two different advantage rules now? Superb
What happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
No idea, there were a few baffling decisions made by the ref tonight.
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Quote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Quote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
There was another incident I wanted clarification on. One of the Mayo players committed a seat belt tackle round the shoulder/neck area.
The ref allowed the solo and go. Mayo then committed a second foul and the ref went back and booked for the first foul. I thought once the play had restarted you couldn't go back?
If you land inside the arc after shooting by rule is it 1 or 2 points?
One foot must be on or outside the arc when you shoot and it must go directly over for 2 points
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2025, 08:22:36 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 08:19:40 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2025, 04:28:34 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 22, 2025, 01:34:33 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 12:23:18 AMWhat 8 meters?
The 4 steps/strides before taking the solo and the 4 after it
ow however, a player who is
fouled can solo (Toe-Tap) immediately, within 4m of where the foul occurred, and continue to attack. If
they solo & go they cannot be challenged for 4m.
You'll not get 8m I wouldn't think.
It's a very good rule but tricky to police to the letter.
We've been told by Ulster Council official and backed up by referees at meeting on Monday night that you can take the solo within 4m of where the foul occurred then have 4 more after where you can't be touched - so in essence that's 8m. Ok maybe need to solo before the 4m, but that's still 7m at least of not being able to be touched. The ulster council official and referees were put over this repeatedly and that is how it was explained.
So my questions remain:
Think thats abit much.
Imo the best rule would give 4m from where the foul actually was to allow for momentum etc if you are being fouled, take the solo immediately and then you get 4 clear metres of not being touched.
Agree with that - makes it clear to everyone what is going on.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Yeah there was no good answer though. Once he made the c**k up Armagh were always going to be disadvantaged to some degree.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Quote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Quote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Statistical Analysis Report from rounds 1-3 of the Allianz Football League relating to the new game enhancements
Nothing too surprising - I thought the handpass/kick ratio would have improved but I think it might take a bit of time, especially given weather conditions for so many games. This will surely increase some bit come championship when the weather improves.
Also a bit disappointed there wasn't a break-down of the type of fouls from previous years to compare to.
I'd be shocked if the number of fouls isn't down a bit based on watching games - the overll number of yellows, reds and blacks seem to be a good bit lower based on the games I've seen/reports I've read.
14 dissent fouls accross 48 games looks to be a super success. Similarly 76 delay fouls in 48 games looks to be a really good number in my opinion.
https://www.gaa.ie/article/frc-statistical-analysis-report
Quote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 11:04:10 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Both players inside the small square which is allowed
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:10:58 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 11:04:10 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Both players inside the small square which is allowed
Just watching it again there. Rafferty makes a save and knocks it down to the defender who catches it and passes it back to Rafferty. Both players in the small square.
The ref awards a free in. The Armagh players protest and the ref runs in seems to explain he got it wrong and changes the free. Aidan O'Shea then intercepts the pass back to the keeper for the free and throws the ball on the ground near Rafferty i.e. he doesn't hand it to Rafferty nor the defender beside him but the free isn't moved.
Seems like a series of errors
I'm really quite amazed at the number of people on Twitter who would seem to prefer watching 70 mins of own-half possession football as a windy day spectacle, over the stack them up, chase them down approach seen under the new rules.
Now I've got to thinking that most people are unable to remember much of anything past a few months ago. This is by far the most logical explanation for this bizarre behaviour.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 09:32:57 PMI'm really quite amazed at the number of people on Twitter who would seem to prefer watching 70 mins of own-half possession football as a windy day spectacle, over the stack them up, chase them down approach seen under the new rules.
Now I've got to thinking that most people are unable to remember much of anything past a few months ago. This is by far the most logical explanation for this bizarre behaviour.
I prefer it because there is little to no excitement to it. Games are potentially exciting for about three minutes. They don't ebb and flow like they used to.
I've really come to detest the 2 pointer. Teams are skirting around the arc , moving the chess pieces to get a kicker in place.
Shane Walsh hit some nice long kicks but he won't be played inside where he could be dangerous around goals. And why would he? Being bottled up attempting 3 points, instead of a better opportunity for nearly the same reward, 2 points
I noticed less balls in around the square too, for same reason. Which is what a lot of people like to see as it gets the crowd excited. Even with the forward mark in place , there's no point having a big FF up there the way things are as the ball will be rarely kicked in
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 23, 2025, 09:52:29 PMI've really come to detest the 2 pointer. Teams are skirting around the arc , moving the chess pieces to get a kicker in place.
Shane Walsh hit some nice long kicks but he won't be played inside where he could be dangerous around goals. And why would he? Being bottled up attempting 3 points, instead of a better opportunity for nearly the same reward, 2 points
I noticed less balls in around the square too, for same reason. Which is what a lot of people like to see as it gets the crowd excited. Even with the forward mark in place , there's no point having a big FF up there the way things are as the ball will be rarely kicked in
Tyrone and Derry games both have 5 goals. Albeit he bate Tyrone is brilliant to see Clifford playing football rather than catching the ball and putting his hand in the air for a mark before he landed.
Love the 2 pointers. Is up to the defences to go out and stop them.
At last Gaelic football is watchable again.
There has been plenty of goals surely? Antrim scored a few more than normal Kerry knocked in dome as did Tyrone.
To give you an idea, it's odds on for less that 3 goals in football, that's not happening as much now
Quote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 09:37:33 PMQuote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 09:32:57 PMI'm really quite amazed at the number of people on Twitter who would seem to prefer watching 70 mins of own-half possession football as a windy day spectacle, over the stack them up, chase them down approach seen under the new rules.
Now I've got to thinking that most people are unable to remember much of anything past a few months ago. This is by far the most logical explanation for this bizarre behaviour.
I prefer it because there is little to no excitement to it. Games are potentially exciting for about three minutes. They don't ebb and flow like they used to.
Honestly David I just don't understand this take. Games didn't ebb and flow for almost a decade there. It was 60 minutes of possession nonsense and if we were lucky we got a good last 10.
The first half of last year's AI final is the prime example of why the rules had to change. Boredom personified. No ebb, no flow. Just boredom.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 09:37:33 PMQuote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 09:32:57 PMI'm really quite amazed at the number of people on Twitter who would seem to prefer watching 70 mins of own-half possession football as a windy day spectacle, over the stack them up, chase them down approach seen under the new rules.
Now I've got to thinking that most people are unable to remember much of anything past a few months ago. This is by far the most logical explanation for this bizarre behaviour.
I prefer it because there is little to no excitement to it. Games are potentially exciting for about three minutes. They don't ebb and flow like they used to.
You're kidding?...
Quote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 07:20:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:10:58 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 11:04:10 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Both players inside the small square which is allowed
Just watching it again there. Rafferty makes a save and knocks it down to the defender who catches it and passes it back to Rafferty. Both players in the small square.
The ref awards a free in. The Armagh players protest and the ref runs in seems to explain he got it wrong and changes the free. Aidan O'Shea then intercepts the pass back to the keeper for the free and throws the ball on the ground near Rafferty i.e. he doesn't hand it to Rafferty nor the defender beside him but the free isn't moved.
Seems like a series of errors
From what we were told on Monday that can't get passed back to Rafferty. We were told it can only be passed to the goalkeeper if the defender wins/intercepts the ball inside the penalty box, directly from the opposition. So if it came off Rafferty to the defender then the defender didn't win it directly from the opposition, and therefore he can't pass to the goalkeeper. We put the referee's over this several times.
These rules just make things unnecessarily complicated.
Quote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:03:26 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 07:20:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:10:58 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 11:04:10 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Both players inside the small square which is allowed
Just watching it again there. Rafferty makes a save and knocks it down to the defender who catches it and passes it back to Rafferty. Both players in the small square.
The ref awards a free in. The Armagh players protest and the ref runs in seems to explain he got it wrong and changes the free. Aidan O'Shea then intercepts the pass back to the keeper for the free and throws the ball on the ground near Rafferty i.e. he doesn't hand it to Rafferty nor the defender beside him but the free isn't moved.
Seems like a series of errors
From what we were told on Monday that can't get passed back to Rafferty. We were told it can only be passed to the goalkeeper if the defender wins/intercepts the ball inside the penalty box, directly from the opposition. So if it came off Rafferty to the defender then the defender didn't win it directly from the opposition, and therefore he can't pass to the goalkeeper. We put the referee's over this several times.
These rules just make things unnecessarily complicated.
For the amount of times that's going to happen in a game will be once or twice at most.. told that the only time the keeper can take a pass is inside the small square, there was no add ons to that when initially explained
The problems you're having is listening to one ref or a couple
I've been to couple workshops and online stuff, from those that were involved in setting up the rules.
When some of these questions are asked it's never totally definitive
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:15:11 PMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:03:26 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 07:20:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:10:58 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 11:04:10 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Both players inside the small square which is allowed
Just watching it again there. Rafferty makes a save and knocks it down to the defender who catches it and passes it back to Rafferty. Both players in the small square.
The ref awards a free in. The Armagh players protest and the ref runs in seems to explain he got it wrong and changes the free. Aidan O'Shea then intercepts the pass back to the keeper for the free and throws the ball on the ground near Rafferty i.e. he doesn't hand it to Rafferty nor the defender beside him but the free isn't moved.
Seems like a series of errors
From what we were told on Monday that can't get passed back to Rafferty. We were told it can only be passed to the goalkeeper if the defender wins/intercepts the ball inside the penalty box, directly from the opposition. So if it came off Rafferty to the defender then the defender didn't win it directly from the opposition, and therefore he can't pass to the goalkeeper. We put the referee's over this several times.
These rules just make things unnecessarily complicated.
For the amount of times that's going to happen in a game will be once or twice at most.. told that the only time the keeper can take a pass is inside the small square, there was no add ons to that when initially explained
The problems you're having is listening to one ref or a couple
I've been to couple workshops and online stuff, from those that were involved in setting up the rules.
When some of these questions are asked it's never totally definitive
And that's the massive problem. It should be definitive.
I thought from the initial explanation it was only in the small square this could happen, so when it was explained that it was in the penalty area I asked two of the inter county referees present and they said it was definitely inside the penalty area.
Quote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:18:10 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:15:11 PMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:03:26 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 07:20:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:10:58 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 11:04:10 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Both players inside the small square which is allowed
Just watching it again there. Rafferty makes a save and knocks it down to the defender who catches it and passes it back to Rafferty. Both players in the small square.
The ref awards a free in. The Armagh players protest and the ref runs in seems to explain he got it wrong and changes the free. Aidan O'Shea then intercepts the pass back to the keeper for the free and throws the ball on the ground near Rafferty i.e. he doesn't hand it to Rafferty nor the defender beside him but the free isn't moved.
Seems like a series of errors
From what we were told on Monday that can't get passed back to Rafferty. We were told it can only be passed to the goalkeeper if the defender wins/intercepts the ball inside the penalty box, directly from the opposition. So if it came off Rafferty to the defender then the defender didn't win it directly from the opposition, and therefore he can't pass to the goalkeeper. We put the referee's over this several times.
These rules just make things unnecessarily complicated.
For the amount of times that's going to happen in a game will be once or twice at most.. told that the only time the keeper can take a pass is inside the small square, there was no add ons to that when initially explained
The problems you're having is listening to one ref or a couple
I've been to couple workshops and online stuff, from those that were involved in setting up the rules.
When some of these questions are asked it's never totally definitive
And that's the massive problem. It should be definitive.
I thought from the initial explanation it was only in the small square this could happen, so when it was explained that it was in the penalty area I asked two of the inter county referees present and they said it was definitely inside the penalty area.
Mad, inside the small square was or how I've approached it.
Also can the keeper collect a 'loose' ball, when can it be deemed a 'pass' inside his own half? The keeper thing for me is or will cause hassle
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:29:16 PMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:18:10 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:15:11 PMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:03:26 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 07:20:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:10:58 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 11:04:10 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Both players inside the small square which is allowed
Just watching it again there. Rafferty makes a save and knocks it down to the defender who catches it and passes it back to Rafferty. Both players in the small square.
The ref awards a free in. The Armagh players protest and the ref runs in seems to explain he got it wrong and changes the free. Aidan O'Shea then intercepts the pass back to the keeper for the free and throws the ball on the ground near Rafferty i.e. he doesn't hand it to Rafferty nor the defender beside him but the free isn't moved.
Seems like a series of errors
From what we were told on Monday that can't get passed back to Rafferty. We were told it can only be passed to the goalkeeper if the defender wins/intercepts the ball inside the penalty box, directly from the opposition. So if it came off Rafferty to the defender then the defender didn't win it directly from the opposition, and therefore he can't pass to the goalkeeper. We put the referee's over this several times.
These rules just make things unnecessarily complicated.
For the amount of times that's going to happen in a game will be once or twice at most.. told that the only time the keeper can take a pass is inside the small square, there was no add ons to that when initially explained
The problems you're having is listening to one ref or a couple
I've been to couple workshops and online stuff, from those that were involved in setting up the rules.
When some of these questions are asked it's never totally definitive
And that's the massive problem. It should be definitive.
I thought from the initial explanation it was only in the small square this could happen, so when it was explained that it was in the penalty area I asked two of the inter county referees present and they said it was definitely inside the penalty area.
Mad, inside the small square was or how I've approached it.
Also can the keeper collect a 'loose' ball, when can it be deemed a 'pass' inside his own half? The keeper thing for me is or will cause hassle
Not from his own man. Just from the opposition.
Quote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:33:35 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:29:16 PMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:18:10 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:15:11 PMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 11:03:26 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 07:20:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:10:58 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 11:04:10 AMQuote from: on the sideline on February 23, 2025, 10:25:56 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 10:07:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 12:31:07 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 11:25:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2025, 11:15:46 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 22, 2025, 08:50:14 PMQuote from: statto on February 22, 2025, 08:03:00 PMQuote from: smort on February 22, 2025, 07:26:53 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on February 22, 2025, 07:20:55 PMWhat happened with Rafferty saving the shot late on?
Defender then passed it back to him in the square, but play was stopped. Armagh got a Free.
What was that about?
Didn't see the incident myself but keepers can receive a pass in their own square, if the player passing the ball is also in the square
Rafferty seemed to be doing serious giving off about it at the time not sure what was going on.
Ref initially pointed for a free in and then changed his decision. Looked like someone told him he got the rule wrong.
If that is what happened though should it have not been a hop ball even though that would have been unfair on Armagh.
Mind you winning the free was a big disadvantage anyway.
Ref made three mistakes, there was no foul, clearly collected pass inside square, blew whistle for foul, realised he made mistake, good, but having blown for the foul and discussed reason he can't just change it, different if he puts arm up for free going different direction and changes straight away, the actual rules don't allow that. And thirdly after making a balls up gives Armagh a free out when there was no free in first place, hop ball on 14 was the best case scenario but he even got that wrong.
Now bring yourself to the club games when no one is 'helping' the ref, going to be carnage
Is that right? In the Armagh v Down Ulster Semi last year the referee awarded Armagh a free then got talked out of it and changed his mind and decided to award an earlier free.
Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision. This looked like that?
Last year there looked like a foul on a Down player but the referee didn't give the play continued for several seconds and an Armagh player (Murnin I think) was fouled. The referee awarded the free kick before Armagh could take it Sean Hurson who was the linesman called the referee over and the referee awarded a free kick to Down. It was widely assumed at the time it was for the original foul the referee had decided was not a foul. I can't remember anyone at the time suggesting it was against the rules although it might have been said I just don't remember.
Last night looked similar in that the referee clearly blew his whistle and awarded a free in only to stop a few seconds later then change his mind and award a free out (although I couldn't see any reason why a free out should have been awarded)
Haven't seen the incident, but did the player who passed it to Rafferty win possession inside the penalty box and if so did he pass directly to Rafferty? If so all is fine.
He can't carry it in and then pass to the keeper or win it inside the box, give it to someone else who then gives it to gk, he must do it himself directly.
Won it directly from a high ball
Both players inside the small square which is allowed
Just watching it again there. Rafferty makes a save and knocks it down to the defender who catches it and passes it back to Rafferty. Both players in the small square.
The ref awards a free in. The Armagh players protest and the ref runs in seems to explain he got it wrong and changes the free. Aidan O'Shea then intercepts the pass back to the keeper for the free and throws the ball on the ground near Rafferty i.e. he doesn't hand it to Rafferty nor the defender beside him but the free isn't moved.
Seems like a series of errors
From what we were told on Monday that can't get passed back to Rafferty. We were told it can only be passed to the goalkeeper if the defender wins/intercepts the ball inside the penalty box, directly from the opposition. So if it came off Rafferty to the defender then the defender didn't win it directly from the opposition, and therefore he can't pass to the goalkeeper. We put the referee's over this several times.
These rules just make things unnecessarily complicated.
For the amount of times that's going to happen in a game will be once or twice at most.. told that the only time the keeper can take a pass is inside the small square, there was no add ons to that when initially explained
The problems you're having is listening to one ref or a couple
I've been to couple workshops and online stuff, from those that were involved in setting up the rules.
When some of these questions are asked it's never totally definitive
And that's the massive problem. It should be definitive.
I thought from the initial explanation it was only in the small square this could happen, so when it was explained that it was in the penalty area I asked two of the inter county referees present and they said it was definitely inside the penalty area.
Mad, inside the small square was or how I've approached it.
Also can the keeper collect a 'loose' ball, when can it be deemed a 'pass' inside his own half? The keeper thing for me is or will cause hassle
Not from his own man. Just from the opposition.
Collecting a ball from the opposition wouldn't need a rule clarification surely. I thought it was a loose ball if it was lost be that by a wayward pass or a tackle or whatever.
I keep going back to. Are these rules published anywhere or do we just get given a general gist and we make it up as we go along?
Yes I highlighted loose for a reason
A ball could be played back into 'traffic' keeper comes out with the ball and was the ball played to the defender?
The cries from players/managers/supporters would be deadly
There's a rule book and amendments but I've only done a few games and I'm thinking or doubting things all the time
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 10:13:23 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 09:37:33 PMQuote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 09:32:57 PMI'm really quite amazed at the number of people on Twitter who would seem to prefer watching 70 mins of own-half possession football as a windy day spectacle, over the stack them up, chase them down approach seen under the new rules.
Now I've got to thinking that most people are unable to remember much of anything past a few months ago. This is by far the most logical explanation for this bizarre behaviour.
I prefer it because there is little to no excitement to it. Games are potentially exciting for about three minutes. They don't ebb and flow like they used to.
Honestly David I just don't understand this take. Games didn't ebb and flow for almost a decade there. It was 60 minutes of possession nonsense and if we were lucky we got a good last 10.
The first half of last year's AI final is the prime example of why the rules had to change. Boredom personified. No ebb, no flow. Just boredom.
Similarly I don't understand your take either. I will always be biased about the All Ireland final (and the entirety of last years championship in general) but I thought criticism of it was well overblown. It may not have had goal mouth chances galore but it had plenty of ebb and flow and drama. A tight game that was always on a knife edge.
So far this year I'm struggling to remember a game that was tight. Games are more like offence v defence training sessions back to back. The weather may have a lot to do with that but I find long periods of matches now very boring as one team enjoys their period to attack.
I find the rules infuriating where minor infractions are unjustifiably punished (3 v 3) and 50m advancement for shooting as a whistle is blown for example. Yet major infractions like black and red cards are negated. The new rules now even reward foul play when teams can pressure opposition frees in the opposition half. Add to that two different advantage rules the one played when there has been a foul much less advantageous that the one played when a catch is made.
Even if the rules did need changed after last year it was tweaks that were needed not the wholesale changes that have come and don't seem to have been thought through properly.
I feel like clever innovative play is no longer rewarded and there is a drive towards the homogenisation of tactics.
I think we are going backwards. I'm old enough to remember goal kicks being from the edge of the small square. We changed that rule because we thought it punished teams further after conceding now we are returning to punishing the conceding team again by forcing kick outs to congested middle areas where the opposition can have an extra player.
I think the new rules denigrate skills as well with 50's worth half of what an easier free much closer to goal is worth. One on one defending now considered less important than a simple catch etc. Even goals are less rewarding under the new rules. 2 goals being worth the same as 3 points from 40 odd out.
So yes for me the game is not better than last year.
All that said. We are 4 matches into the league I'm prepared to give the new rules more time. I fear we will see them exploited more as managers etc have more real world data to analyse but I will wait and see.
I should also add that I've always enjoyed a great tactical battle, two of my favourite games I've ever watched as a neutral were Dublin v Donegal in 2014 when I remember Dublin players looking over to their sideline for help because they couldn't cope with the tactics Donegal were employing and the 2011 all Ireland final when I had the pleasure of sitting beside a coach who had won all Irelands at multiple levels and who was able to analyse the match at unbelievable level. So that may flavour my view on the whole issue.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:55:26 PMYes I highlighted loose for a reason
A ball could be played back into 'traffic' keeper comes out with the ball and was the ball played to the defender?
The cries from players/managers/supporters would be deadly
There's a rule book and amendments but I've only done a few games and I'm thinking or doubting things all the time
Are the rules published anywhere as I haven't seen them as yet.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:23:31 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:55:26 PMYes I highlighted loose for a reason
A ball could be played back into 'traffic' keeper comes out with the ball and was the ball played to the defender?
The cries from players/managers/supporters would be deadly
There's a rule book and amendments but I've only done a few games and I'm thinking or doubting things all the time
Are the rules published anywhere as I haven't seen them as yet.
Have you looked on gaa.ie at the very bottom of the home page is a set of headings, and under "The GAA" is a link called "Rules and Regulations". Click on that link and you will see a bunch of stuff...I believe you might be most interested in a link near the bottom of the page "GAA Official Guide Part 2 (31.01.25)" and clicking on that will bring you to the pdf file. I'll leave you figure out how to read the table of contents and get to the playing rules of football...but you will notice the recent changes/additions are in red print.
Now I'll ask you a question...how hard did you look for the rules?
Quote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:22:55 AMQuote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 10:13:23 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 09:37:33 PMQuote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 09:32:57 PMI'm really quite amazed at the number of people on Twitter who would seem to prefer watching 70 mins of own-half possession football as a windy day spectacle, over the stack them up, chase them down approach seen under the new rules.
Now I've got to thinking that most people are unable to remember much of anything past a few months ago. This is by far the most logical explanation for this bizarre behaviour.
I prefer it because there is little to no excitement to it. Games are potentially exciting for about three minutes. They don't ebb and flow like they used to.
Honestly David I just don't understand this take. Games didn't ebb and flow for almost a decade there. It was 60 minutes of possession nonsense and if we were lucky we got a good last 10.
The first half of last year's AI final is the prime example of why the rules had to change. Boredom personified. No ebb, no flow. Just boredom.
Similarly I don't understand your take either. I will always be biased about the All Ireland final (and the entirety of last years championship in general) but I thought criticism of it was well overblown. It may not have had goal mouth chances galore but it had plenty of ebb and flow and drama. A tight game that was always on a knife edge.
So far this year I'm struggling to remember a game that was tight. Games are more like offence v defence training sessions back to back. The weather may have a lot to do with that but I find long periods of matches now very boring as one team enjoys their period to attack.
I find the rules infuriating where minor infractions are unjustifiably punished (3 v 3) and 50m advancement for shooting as a whistle is blown for example. Yet major infractions like black and red cards are negated. The new rules now even reward foul play when teams can pressure opposition frees in the opposition half. Add to that two different advantage rules the one played when there has been a foul much less advantageous that the one played when a catch is made.
Even if the rules did need changed after last year it was tweaks that were needed not the wholesale changes that have come and don't seem to have been thought through properly.
I feel like clever innovative play is no longer rewarded and there is a drive towards the homogenisation of tactics.
I think we are going backwards. I'm old enough to remember goal kicks being from the edge of the small square. We changed that rule because we thought it punished teams further after conceding now we are returning to punishing the conceding team again by forcing kick outs to congested middle areas where the opposition can have an extra player.
I think the new rules denigrate skills as well with 50's worth half of what an easier free much closer to goal is worth. One on one defending now considered less important than a simple catch etc. Even goals are less rewarding under the new rules. 2 goals being worth the same as 3 points from 40 odd out.
So yes for me the game is not better than last year.
All that said. We are 4 matches into the league I'm prepared to give the new rules more time. I fear we will see them exploited more as managers etc have more real world data to analyse but I will wait and see.
I should also add that I've always enjoyed a great tactical battle, two of my favourite games I've ever watched as a neutral were Dublin v Donegal in 2014 when I remember Dublin players looking over to their sideline for help because they couldn't cope with the tactics Donegal were employing and the 2011 all Ireland final when I had the pleasure of sitting beside a coach who had won all Irelands at multiple levels and who was able to analyse the match at unbelievable level. So that may flavour my view on the whole issue.
+1
Quote from: Ball Hopper on February 24, 2025, 01:09:32 AMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:23:31 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2025, 11:55:26 PMYes I highlighted loose for a reason
A ball could be played back into 'traffic' keeper comes out with the ball and was the ball played to the defender?
The cries from players/managers/supporters would be deadly
There's a rule book and amendments but I've only done a few games and I'm thinking or doubting things all the time
Are the rules published anywhere as I haven't seen them as yet.
Have you looked on gaa.ie at the very bottom of the home page is a set of headings, and under "The GAA" is a link called "Rules and Regulations". Click on that link and you will see a bunch of stuff...I believe you might be most interested in a link near the bottom of the page "GAA Official Guide Part 2 (31.01.25)" and clicking on that will bring you to the pdf file. I'll leave you figure out how to read the table of contents and get to the playing rules of football...but you will notice the recent changes/additions are in red print.
Now I'll ask you a question...how hard did you look for the rules?
Cheers. I had looked at the start of the league when they weren't available and had only looked for amendments since. My bad. Good to finally see them written down.
Having now read I'm a little clearer on the rules.
I didn't realise for example that if you breach the 3v3 rule in an attempt to win the ball the punishment is a free on half way but if you accidentally do it it's a free on the 20m line.
I'm glad to see the advantage rule has been changed to remove the absurdity that if you fouled the ball during your advantage it cancelled the advantage and resulted in a free the other way.
I didn't know that causing injury to a player is now a straight red even if there is no force.
Indicating a free but then solo and going is a free the other way so although the referee the other day was criticised he may have been correct.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:34:53 PMHaving now read I'm a little clearer on the rules.
I didn't realise for example that if you breach the 3v3 rule in an attempt to win the ball the punishment is a free on half way but if you accidentally do it it's a free on the 20m line.
I'm glad to see the advantage rule has been changed to remove the absurdity that if you fouled the ball during your advantage it cancelled the advantage and resulted in a free the other way.
I didn't know that causing injury to a player is now a straight red even if there is no force.
Indicating a free but then solo and going is a free the other way so although the referee the other day was criticised he may have been correct.
The 3v3 rule if a player has accidently through momentum broke the halfway line, its a free from that spot rather than the 50m free shot, if two players happen to cross the line together to contest the ball its a hop ball? or has it changed? It's hard to keep up with the amendments lol
Quote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:22:55 AMQuote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 10:13:23 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 23, 2025, 09:37:33 PMQuote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2025, 09:32:57 PMI'm really quite amazed at the number of people on Twitter who would seem to prefer watching 70 mins of own-half possession football as a windy day spectacle, over the stack them up, chase them down approach seen under the new rules.
Now I've got to thinking that most people are unable to remember much of anything past a few months ago. This is by far the most logical explanation for this bizarre behaviour.
I prefer it because there is little to no excitement to it. Games are potentially exciting for about three minutes. They don't ebb and flow like they used to.
Honestly David I just don't understand this take. Games didn't ebb and flow for almost a decade there. It was 60 minutes of possession nonsense and if we were lucky we got a good last 10.
The first half of last year's AI final is the prime example of why the rules had to change. Boredom personified. No ebb, no flow. Just boredom.
Similarly I don't understand your take either. I will always be biased about the All Ireland final (and the entirety of last years championship in general) but I thought criticism of it was well overblown. It may not have had goal mouth chances galore but it had plenty of ebb and flow and drama. A tight game that was always on a knife edge.
So far this year I'm struggling to remember a game that was tight. Games are more like offence v defence training sessions back to back. The weather may have a lot to do with that but I find long periods of matches now very boring as one team enjoys their period to attack.
I find the rules infuriating where minor infractions are unjustifiably punished (3 v 3) and 50m advancement for shooting as a whistle is blown for example. Yet major infractions like black and red cards are negated. The new rules now even reward foul play when teams can pressure opposition frees in the opposition half. Add to that two different advantage rules the one played when there has been a foul much less advantageous that the one played when a catch is made.
Even if the rules did need changed after last year it was tweaks that were needed not the wholesale changes that have come and don't seem to have been thought through properly.
I feel like clever innovative play is no longer rewarded and there is a drive towards the homogenisation of tactics.
I think we are going backwards. I'm old enough to remember goal kicks being from the edge of the small square. We changed that rule because we thought it punished teams further after conceding now we are returning to punishing the conceding team again by forcing kick outs to congested middle areas where the opposition can have an extra player.
I think the new rules denigrate skills as well with 50's worth half of what an easier free much closer to goal is worth. One on one defending now considered less important than a simple catch etc. Even goals are less rewarding under the new rules. 2 goals being worth the same as 3 points from 40 odd out.
So yes for me the game is not better than last year.
All that said. We are 4 matches into the league I'm prepared to give the new rules more time. I fear we will see them exploited more as managers etc have more real world data to analyse but I will wait and see.
I should also add that I've always enjoyed a great tactical battle, two of my favourite games I've ever watched as a neutral were Dublin v Donegal in 2014 when I remember Dublin players looking over to their sideline for help because they couldn't cope with the tactics Donegal were employing and the 2011 all Ireland final when I had the pleasure of sitting beside a coach who had won all Irelands at multiple levels and who was able to analyse the match at unbelievable level. So that may flavour my view on the whole issue.
Thank God I'm not the only one who thinks along these lines.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 12:40:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:34:53 PMHaving now read I'm a little clearer on the rules.
I didn't realise for example that if you breach the 3v3 rule in an attempt to win the ball the punishment is a free on half way but if you accidentally do it it's a free on the 20m line.
I'm glad to see the advantage rule has been changed to remove the absurdity that if you fouled the ball during your advantage it cancelled the advantage and resulted in a free the other way.
I didn't know that causing injury to a player is now a straight red even if there is no force.
Indicating a free but then solo and going is a free the other way so although the referee the other day was criticised he may have been correct.
The 3v3 rule if a player has accidently through momentum broke the halfway line, its a free from that spot rather than the 50m free shot, if two players happen to cross the line together to contest the ball its a hop ball? or has it changed? It's hard to keep up with the amendments lol
To commit a breach of rule 2.14 (the 3 v 3 rule) in the act of carrying, receiving or intercepting the ball or attempting to do so leaving less than three players on either side of the half way line.
No mention of it being accidentally or as a result of momentum etc.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:52:40 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 12:40:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:34:53 PMHaving now read I'm a little clearer on the rules.
I didn't realise for example that if you breach the 3v3 rule in an attempt to win the ball the punishment is a free on half way but if you accidentally do it it's a free on the 20m line.
I'm glad to see the advantage rule has been changed to remove the absurdity that if you fouled the ball during your advantage it cancelled the advantage and resulted in a free the other way.
I didn't know that causing injury to a player is now a straight red even if there is no force.
Indicating a free but then solo and going is a free the other way so although the referee the other day was criticised he may have been correct.
The 3v3 rule if a player has accidently through momentum broke the halfway line, its a free from that spot rather than the 50m free shot, if two players happen to cross the line together to contest the ball its a hop ball? or has it changed? It's hard to keep up with the amendments lol
To commit a breach of rule 2.14 (the 3 v 3 rule) in the act of carrying, receiving or intercepting the ball or attempting to do so leaving less than three players on either side of the half way line.
No mention of it being accidentally or as a result of momentum etc.
It's not as black and white as that in practical terms. I did bring this up at the last meeting, I've about 7 different questions that I've thought about over the weekend to get confirmation on, momentum and accidentally over the halfway line was definitely used. I shouldn't though with two weeks before the start of the club leagues here in Antrim be still unsure on new rules, and seeing so many different applications at county level with 9 officials at hand to help
Is there any change to deciding a game in the event of a draw at extra time (ie has penalties been replaced)
cant find it anywhere. appreciate if someone can point to that change (if it was made)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 12:40:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:34:53 PMHaving now read I'm a little clearer on the rules.
I didn't realise for example that if you breach the 3v3 rule in an attempt to win the ball the punishment is a free on half way but if you accidentally do it it's a free on the 20m line.
I'm glad to see the advantage rule has been changed to remove the absurdity that if you fouled the ball during your advantage it cancelled the advantage and resulted in a free the other way.
I didn't know that causing injury to a player is now a straight red even if there is no force.
Indicating a free but then solo and going is a free the other way so although the referee the other day was criticised he may have been correct.
The 3v3 rule if a player has accidently through momentum broke the halfway line, its a free from that spot rather than the 50m free shot, if two players happen to cross the line together to contest the ball its a hop ball? or has it changed? It's hard to keep up with the amendments lol
Not the punishment
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 24, 2025, 01:25:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 12:40:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:34:53 PMHaving now read I'm a little clearer on the rules.
I didn't realise for example that if you breach the 3v3 rule in an attempt to win the ball the punishment is a free on half way but if you accidentally do it it's a free on the 20m line.
I'm glad to see the advantage rule has been changed to remove the absurdity that if you fouled the ball during your advantage it cancelled the advantage and resulted in a free the other way.
I didn't know that causing injury to a player is now a straight red even if there is no force.
Indicating a free but then solo and going is a free the other way so although the referee the other day was criticised he may have been correct.
The 3v3 rule if a player has accidently through momentum broke the halfway line, its a free from that spot rather than the 50m free shot, if two players happen to cross the line together to contest the ball its a hop ball? or has it changed? It's hard to keep up with the amendments lol
Not the punishment
So I've said if they break the line its a free from that spot, if the two players come across together its a hop ball?
Rather than the 50meter penalty of bringing the ball to the 21?
If a defending team drops too many players back and fails to leave three up in their forward line, the penalty is a 20-metre free to the opposition.
So read one there saying it the large rectangle when the keeper and defender can pass the ball to each other if the ball was played in from the opposition, initially I thought it was the small square...
Can they pass it among themselves as much as they want in the large rectangle ?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 01:53:08 PMSo read one there saying it the large rectangle when the keeper and defender can pass the ball to each other if the ball was played in from the opposition, initially I thought it was the small square...
Can they pass it among themselves as much as they want in the large rectangle ?
Seems that way
When there's a working hooter in the stadium, the ref signals (to whomever) when the clock should be stopped and restarted during breaks in play, does that affect the black card 10 minutes long time out? The ref signaled for the clock to stopped in the Tyrone Kerry game (Kerry player down) while Clifford was serving his time. Was Clifford's black card clock also stopped?
Apols if this was already discussed.
On Saturday evening, Armagh were able to score from a sideline ball after the hooter had gone for the end of the fist halk.
Whilst on Sunday, Donegal were not allowed to take their sideline ball after the hooter went for the end of the match. It wouldn't have affected the result of course.
Quote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 02:43:47 PMWhen there's a working hooter in the stadium, the ref signals (to whomever) when the clock should be stopped and restarted during breaks in play, does that affect the black card 10 minutes long time out? The ref signaled for the clock to stopped in the Tyrone Kerry game (Kerry player down) while Clifford was serving his time. Was Clifford's black card clock also stopped?
It's 10 minutes of time not 10 minutes on the stadium clock going by what happened in Mullingar yesterday. Black card for Cavan player in last 10 minutes and he was back on for the last 2 or 3 minutes. It doesn't really make sence that one either.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 01:53:08 PMSo read one there saying it the large rectangle when the keeper and defender can pass the ball to each other if the ball was played in from the opposition, initially I thought it was the small square...
Can they pass it among themselves as much as they want in the large rectangle ?
No. Once the keeper passes it in his own half he can't touch it again until he crosses half way line.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 01:38:27 PMQuote from: DuffleKing on February 24, 2025, 01:25:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 12:40:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:34:53 PMHaving now read I'm a little clearer on the rules.
I didn't realise for example that if you breach the 3v3 rule in an attempt to win the ball the punishment is a free on half way but if you accidentally do it it's a free on the 20m line.
I'm glad to see the advantage rule has been changed to remove the absurdity that if you fouled the ball during your advantage it cancelled the advantage and resulted in a free the other way.
I didn't know that causing injury to a player is now a straight red even if there is no force.
Indicating a free but then solo and going is a free the other way so although the referee the other day was criticised he may have been correct.
The 3v3 rule if a player has accidently through momentum broke the halfway line, its a free from that spot rather than the 50m free shot, if two players happen to cross the line together to contest the ball its a hop ball? or has it changed? It's hard to keep up with the amendments lol
Not the punishment
So I've said if they break the line its a free from that spot, if the two players come across together its a hop ball?
Rather than the 50meter penalty of bringing the ball to the 21?
If a defending team drops too many players back and fails to leave three up in their forward line, the penalty is a 20-metre free to the opposition.
That would have been closer to accurate - still not - if you'd said that.
You said it was a "50m free shot".
Quote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 02:43:47 PMWhen there's a working hooter in the stadium, the ref signals (to whomever) when the clock should be stopped and restarted during breaks in play, does that affect the black card 10 minutes long time out? The ref signaled for the clock to stopped in the Tyrone Kerry game (Kerry player down) while Clifford was serving his time. Was Clifford's black card clock also stopped?
Grimleys was stopped on Saturday night. It would have to be stopped otherwise half time would have to count.
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 24, 2025, 04:27:30 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 01:38:27 PMQuote from: DuffleKing on February 24, 2025, 01:25:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 12:40:05 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 12:34:53 PMHaving now read I'm a little clearer on the rules.
I didn't realise for example that if you breach the 3v3 rule in an attempt to win the ball the punishment is a free on half way but if you accidentally do it it's a free on the 20m line.
I'm glad to see the advantage rule has been changed to remove the absurdity that if you fouled the ball during your advantage it cancelled the advantage and resulted in a free the other way.
I didn't know that causing injury to a player is now a straight red even if there is no force.
Indicating a free but then solo and going is a free the other way so although the referee the other day was criticised he may have been correct.
The 3v3 rule if a player has accidently through momentum broke the halfway line, its a free from that spot rather than the 50m free shot, if two players happen to cross the line together to contest the ball its a hop ball? or has it changed? It's hard to keep up with the amendments lol
Not the punishment
So I've said if they break the line its a free from that spot, if the two players come across together its a hop ball?
Rather than the 50meter penalty of bringing the ball to the 21?
If a defending team drops too many players back and fails to leave three up in their forward line, the penalty is a 20-metre free to the opposition.
That would have been closer to accurate - still not - if you'd said that.
You said it was a "50m free shot".
My bad
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 24, 2025, 02:53:01 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 02:43:47 PMWhen there's a working hooter in the stadium, the ref signals (to whomever) when the clock should be stopped and restarted during breaks in play, does that affect the black card 10 minutes long time out? The ref signaled for the clock to stopped in the Tyrone Kerry game (Kerry player down) while Clifford was serving his time. Was Clifford's black card clock also stopped?
It's 10 minutes of time not 10 minutes on the stadium clock going by what happened in Mullingar yesterday. Black card for Cavan player in last 10 minutes and he was back on for the last 2 or 3 minutes. It doesn't really make sence that one either.
But the black card ran like that in old rules, player injured time stopped but black card time didn't
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 05:37:32 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on February 24, 2025, 02:53:01 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 02:43:47 PMWhen there's a working hooter in the stadium, the ref signals (to whomever) when the clock should be stopped and restarted during breaks in play, does that affect the black card 10 minutes long time out? The ref signaled for the clock to stopped in the Tyrone Kerry game (Kerry player down) while Clifford was serving his time. Was Clifford's black card clock also stopped?
It's 10 minutes of time not 10 minutes on the stadium clock going by what happened in Mullingar yesterday. Black card for Cavan player in last 10 minutes and he was back on for the last 2 or 3 minutes. It doesn't really make sence that one either.
But the black card ran like that in old rules, player injured time stopped but black card time didn't
Did time officially stop under the old rules? I thought it was more that was short hand for "I am adding all this time on at the end"
Grimley was off the pitch for near 13 actual minutes on Saturday night
Quote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 06:43:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 05:37:32 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on February 24, 2025, 02:53:01 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 02:43:47 PMWhen there's a working hooter in the stadium, the ref signals (to whomever) when the clock should be stopped and restarted during breaks in play, does that affect the black card 10 minutes long time out? The ref signaled for the clock to stopped in the Tyrone Kerry game (Kerry player down) while Clifford was serving his time. Was Clifford's black card clock also stopped?
It's 10 minutes of time not 10 minutes on the stadium clock going by what happened in Mullingar yesterday. Black card for Cavan player in last 10 minutes and he was back on for the last 2 or 3 minutes. It doesn't really make sence that one either.
But the black card ran like that in old rules, player injured time stopped but black card time didn't
Did time officially stop under the old rules? I thought it was more that was short hand for "I am adding all this time on at the end"
Grimley was off the pitch for near 13 actual minutes on Saturday night
Now that the ref can stop the clock it's an opportunity to align the black card clock to the game clock.
Quote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 07:02:29 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 06:43:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 05:37:32 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on February 24, 2025, 02:53:01 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 02:43:47 PMWhen there's a working hooter in the stadium, the ref signals (to whomever) when the clock should be stopped and restarted during breaks in play, does that affect the black card 10 minutes long time out? The ref signaled for the clock to stopped in the Tyrone Kerry game (Kerry player down) while Clifford was serving his time. Was Clifford's black card clock also stopped?
It's 10 minutes of time not 10 minutes on the stadium clock going by what happened in Mullingar yesterday. Black card for Cavan player in last 10 minutes and he was back on for the last 2 or 3 minutes. It doesn't really make sence that one either.
But the black card ran like that in old rules, player injured time stopped but black card time didn't
Did time officially stop under the old rules? I thought it was more that was short hand for "I am adding all this time on at the end"
Grimley was off the pitch for near 13 actual minutes on Saturday night
Now that the ref can stop the clock it's an opportunity to align the black card clock to the game clock.
I thought it had. It certainly seemed to in the Armagh v Mayo match on Saturday night
Quote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 07:31:16 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 07:02:29 PMQuote from: David McKeown on February 24, 2025, 06:43:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 05:37:32 PMQuote from: Cavan19 on February 24, 2025, 02:53:01 PMQuote from: Main Street on February 24, 2025, 02:43:47 PMWhen there's a working hooter in the stadium, the ref signals (to whomever) when the clock should be stopped and restarted during breaks in play, does that affect the black card 10 minutes long time out? The ref signaled for the clock to stopped in the Tyrone Kerry game (Kerry player down) while Clifford was serving his time. Was Clifford's black card clock also stopped?
It's 10 minutes of time not 10 minutes on the stadium clock going by what happened in Mullingar yesterday. Black card for Cavan player in last 10 minutes and he was back on for the last 2 or 3 minutes. It doesn't really make sence that one either.
But the black card ran like that in old rules, player injured time stopped but black card time didn't
Did time officially stop under the old rules? I thought it was more that was short hand for "I am adding all this time on at the end"
Grimley was off the pitch for near 13 actual minutes on Saturday night
Now that the ref can stop the clock it's an opportunity to align the black card clock to the game clock.
I thought it had. It certainly seemed to in the Armagh v Mayo match on Saturday night
Afaia, it was 10 mins of clock time in Tyrone and Mullingar.
For the 1% club that's fine
For the riff raff ordinary joes of the world we'll stick with the two watches
On this week's RTÉ GAA podcast, former Kerry player and manager Fitzmaurice was asked whether he understands the frustration with the rule as it has played out to date.
"Absolutely, 100%," he said.
"When we were thinking about it initially, it was to avoid a double punishment, where if you got a black or red card, that team would have the freedom to have their two players on either their defensive or offensive side.
"We thought that's the way it would play out, but that isn't the way it's playing out. Teams have exploited it and used it very cleverly.
"Even being down players, teams have been able to engineer a 12v11."
The Jim Gavin-led FRC has a weekly online meeting every Monday, as well as in-person meetings where the landscape of the rule rules is critiqued.
After the next round of games there could be further tweaks to the current rules, but Fitzmaurice is keen to stress that while this particular rule will be addressed, it was always expected that road-testing would bring about further changes.
"Of course when we meet up, that will be one of the items we will be discussing," he said.
"It's going to be something we're going to have to look at.
"It is an unintended consequence. That was always going to happen. That's the reason this year is an experimental year.
"That's the beauty of being able to trial it like this. By the time things are voted into the permanent rule book at the end of the year, they will have been robustly tested, hopefully streamlined and improved."
So the current playing rules are tweaked weekly or so ! Got help thd club refs !
They aint interested in club refs
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2025, 07:25:08 AMThey aint interested in club refs
i dont think they are interested in refs full stop
Don't think they are interested in clubs full stop!
There isn't much interest shown in those watching on TV or spectating as we are no longer in a position to understand what is happening on the pitch.
Also, the rules will not be 'robustly tested' each tweak of the rules could have further unintended consequences which will not be tested properly. And given the raft of changes how does anyone decide which rules or tweaks are enhancing the game and which aren't.
Quote from: The Trap on February 25, 2025, 10:44:39 AMDon't think they are interested in clubs full stop!
Would they and their families not all be members of clubs? But yes, it's a great high stool soundbite, but not quite a GAAism though I don't think
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2025/02/25/restricting-goalkeepers-would-help-address-excessive-handpassing-says-paul-earley/
The Football Review Committee will shortly make final recommendations for the rules to be applied in this year's championship. The report on the first three rounds of the National Football League by the GAA's Games Intelligence Unit provides some parameters for that discussion.
The obvious findings are the preponderance of long kick-outs and the increase in contested kick-outs but there was some disappointment that the handpass to kick pass ratio had hardly budged from the 2023 and '24 figures of 3.2:1 and 3.4:1 during the opening weeks of the season.
Paul Earley, one of the GAA's most qualified coaches and a veteran of Eugene McGee's FRC in 2012, has predictably been taking a keen interest in how the game is evolving and believes there are a number of changes that could be made before the summer rules are finalised.
One is the role of the goalkeeper. This has attracted much comment because of the fact that the roaming 'keeper is allowed to create an imbalance by joining the attack, causing a 12-11 overload.
This has effectively shifted the potential for endless handpassing from defence to attack, as the "extra man" goalkeeper becomes an outlet for holding possession.
"I think one of the objectives of the FRC is that they wanted a more 'vertical' game," says Earley, "as opposed to a 'horizontal' game, which we were used to in recent years".
Learn more
"If that is a stated aim or stated goal, then having the goalkeeper come up and get involved in the game past the halfway line, doesn't facilitate that. In fact, it facilitates the more horizontal game.
"I've heard a couple of people and maybe a couple of coaches as well say, 'look, the game is so fast now that we need periods of slow play to kind of balance it', but the referee has a role that there are various stoppages in the game anyway – you know, players can take a breather if there are injuries or if the clock is stopping for subs and whatnot."
Another factor in the decline of kick passing is the new "solo and go" provision, allowing players to take off on being awarded a free with a buffer zone of four metres. That doesn't count as a kick.
Earley says precise comparisons can't be made between the current league and the 2023 and '24 figures– which is based on championship fixtures – because the data that stripped out frees from kick passes wasn't gathered in the previous years.
"I noticed in the statistical evidence they had the kick pass 'including frees' ratio, which was the same. They had the kick pass in open play ratio but they didn't have data for that from the last couple of years compared it against. That would have been the interesting one."
Earley is in agreement with the complaints of some managers on two issues, red-card and black-card punishments and the number of replacements that teams should be allowed to make.
Teams losing a player for disciplinary reasons are allowed to "borrow" someone from their 3v3 structure, which effectively allows them to mitigate their penalty.
"That's maybe one of the unintended consequences," he says. "I'm sure they've looked at all of that but when you look at it, it doesn't really punish the offending team.
"It should give an advantage obviously to the opposition when they're a man up or two men up. The bulk of the game has been played between the two 45-metre lines so having a numerical advantage there would be significant. So, if you lose a player, you just have to keep your 3v3 up, which means you're down a player in the central area."
Kerry's David Clifford is black carded by match referee Paddy Neilan. Paul Earley agrees with the complaints of some managers on two issues, red-card and black-card punishments and the number of replacements that teams should be allowed to make. Photograph: Lorcan Doherty/Inpho
Kerry's David Clifford is black carded by match referee Paddy Neilan. Paul Earley agrees with the complaints of some managers on two issues, red-card and black-card punishments and the number of replacements that teams should be allowed to make. Photograph: Lorcan Doherty/Inpho
He would also allow more than the permitted five replacements but restrict the opportunity to bring them on to the field.
"I would go with six or seven subs and have maybe three occasions in each half when they can come on, other than for injuries."
He would also consult regularly with referees because of the increased physical demands on them, which creates mental fatigue affecting decision-making, particularly at the end of matches, and he favours video assistance in top intercounty matches.
"Soccer has it; rugby has it. It's not a big extension to move it to championship football and the GAA."
Whereas he acknowledges the positive impact on long-range shooting of the two-point score for kicks beyond 40 metres, Earley doesn't believe frees should come into that category.
"I would only give the two points from open play. Now the question is, does that encourage fouling outside? I'm not sure if it would because you foul outside, then you give a foul away, then with the solo and goal you're almost giving the guy a free run inside. So, I think two pointers should only be for open play."
Fair points, I wonder will they let us know before season starts in two weeks
Are these rules actually improving things? It feels like the more you change, the more needs changing. I'm getting weary of reading and hearing about rule changes. Will supporter rule fatigue drive ppl (like me) away from the game? Will the game even be recognisable when they are finished?
I think it was clear that the game needed change. There are a few things that I like and some that I don't but looking at it as the beginning of a trial / journey to come up with something that we can all sign up to and work to at all levels. Might take a few years, but do we have a few years or is there a finite amount of time on any changes being final?
I'd agree Minus15.
There's some strange things going on and there's unintended consequences ahead.
But the balance of possession vs territory seems to be tilting back towards neutral again. I don't think it has to be exactly neutral or even close, but it was so in favour of possession the past decade that the game was too coachable, and therefore too monotonous.
Let the FRC at it. We will never have a perfect game - no sport has - but we will have a more enjoyable one.
——
Once upon a time it was illegal to carry the ball in Gaelic Football.
Then we started bouncing it every 4 yards.
Then about 40 years later we started toe tapping.
Much as i do think the new rules are going to be onerous for referees, I think it's probably a minor adjustment compared to what the men in the middle had to adapt to in the 1900s and 1940s!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 09:01:15 PMFor the 1% club that's fine
For the riff raff ordinary joes of the world we'll stick with the two watches
This schtick is getting old. Everyone is a club official, player, ref, etc.
Not sure why you want to constantly point at the county game as if those involved are insulated from the implications of the new rules at club level.
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 26, 2025, 09:39:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2025, 09:01:15 PMFor the 1% club that's fine
For the riff raff ordinary joes of the world we'll stick with the two watches
This schtick is getting old. Everyone is a club official, player, ref, .
Not sure why you want to constantly point at the county game as if those involved are insulated from the implications of the new rules at club level.
Because these rules we are talking about the ref's that are doing at county games have the help of 8 other officials
The rules were set out with county games as their core thinking
It's easier to manage within a county ground and a hell of a lot safer
Only a couple of years ago a ref was stabbed ( by a poster on here) because he disagreed with how it was officiated.
These rules won't make decisions simpler for one ref to manage
I don't think the group has thought that out for the other 99% of games
If your sick of it I'm sorry
You keep making this same point ad nauseum despite everyone totally agreeing with it and being fully aware of it anyway.
From the Irish Examiner
Central Council are expected to be charged with endorsing an amendment or two to the new football rules, following Football Review Committee (FRC) meetings over the coming days.
The question is when they will come into force – for the final two rounds of the league on March 15/16 and 22/23 or the start of the provincial championships.
And the other question - what may they be?
Black and red cards.
In Pomeroy, Tyrone managed with the help of a couple of Michael McKernan two-pointers to outscore Kerry 0-4 to 0-1 for the first-half period while Eoin McElholm was in the sin bin for a black card.
In the second half, Tyrone failed to score for the combined 13 minutes Joe O'Connor and David Clifford were off the field while Dylan Casey scored a point for Kerry. With Clifford yet to return to the fray, Paul Geaney converted a free.
In other instances like Galway v Donegal later that afternoon aswell as Mayo v Armagh and Cavan v Westmeath, teams that were supposed to be numerically disadvantaged were compensated by not having to keep as many players in the opposition's half.
A day after Jim McGuinness described the circumstances that led to that anomaly in Salthill as "farcical", FRC member Éamonn Fitzmaurice admitted it's an area they have to address.
The body might simply insist teams have to abide by the three-up rule at all times. That would re-enforce the need for discipline but it may lend to more lopsided results, which is the very reason why they jettisoned the increase of a goal to four points.
Allowing the team with more players to simply mirror what the opposition is doing and drop back a player into their own half could solve the issue.
Whatever about a red card, there's the alternative of returning the black card to an automatic replacement thereby ensuring there is numerical parity. That could also allow them to increase the number of substitutes to six as was the case before the sin bin was introduced in 2020.
Although data has yet to show that the game is more demanding, managers have been calling for more interchanges.
Expectation: Change on the way.
12 v 11.
The overload being created by advanced goalkeepers is the bane of managers. We can count five who have at some stage or another complained about them – Ger Brennan, John Cleary, Dessie Farrell, Dermot McCabe and Paddy Tally.
The advantage given to those teams with keepers who are comfortable heading up the field is obvious but the risks are clear too. Shane Ryan was almost caught in no man's land last weekend and in better weather we could see more goals scored on the break as netminders scurry back to the literal and metaphorical posts.
At the same time, the extra player sure comes in handy in retaining the football and killing the clock.
It may just be that the FRC either restricts goalkeepers to kick-passing beyond the halfway line or prohibits them from crossing it in open play but compensating for that by allowing them to take and make passes from anywhere inside their own half to see if that helps but that could have drawbacks too.
Expectation: An amendment is likely.
Kick-outs.
Seeing as the longer restarts have added to the amount of contests and there is genuine excitement and expectation about their outcome, the FRC may be reluctant to take their former member Malachy O'Rourke's advice and relax the kick-out length from clearing the 40-metre arc to the "D".
O'Rourke might be drowned out on this one but the FRC will want to see the amount of kick-out marks claimed and breaking ball compared with last season.
Expectation: Too early to call.
Clock/hooter.
It appears the FRC are going to persevere with the technology for the moment even though it counts up rather than down as was envisaged and it doesn't have the full support of the Central Competitions Control Committee.
There has been plenty of dramatic finishes where clock/hooters have been involved but the "negative possession" argument against it has also been underlined by teams playing keep-ball knowing what remains on the clock.
Expectation: Nothing just yet.
50-metre penalty.
Referees at inter-county level at least are feeling more empowered because of the new disciplinary rules but some match officials' interpretations of players not handing the ball back to opponents or delaying the play could be questioned.
It was they who wanted the 50m advancement, the FRC suggested 30m. The severity of the punishment could become more of a deterrent than a reality but infringing players in future might be allowed to drop, roll or throw the ball instead of having to hand it to their opponent.
Expectation: A tweak but maybe before championship.
https://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
Solo and go is a great rule but 8m is ridiculous.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
It's on the ref now to call it rather than the original / new advanced mark rule
The advanced mark should've been dropped altogether and now this advanced mark advantage is adding complication to the nonsense.
Quote from: JoG2 on February 28, 2025, 11:22:59 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
It's on the ref now to call it rather than the original / new advanced mark rule
I'm lost, I've actually a sore head trying to work out one rule from the next, probably piss off Duffel here but leagues start next weekend and the chopping and changing from the original rules to the amendments to now this is bonkers. Think I'll drop football stick with the hurling and camogie and maybe start ladies football until it changes
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:10:58 AMSolo and go is a great rule but 8m is ridiculous.
Why would you solo within 4m now reducing your own advantage.
I'm open minded to most of the rules but the advanced mark is a total non-event. They probably think they're better to encourage the kick inside than to not encourage it, but it's having little to no impact
Quote from: David McKeown on February 28, 2025, 04:29:41 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:10:58 AMSolo and go is a great rule but 8m is ridiculous.
Why would you solo within 4m now reducing your own advantage.
It's a bit confusing, if a player takes 4 meters from where the free took place and solo and goes I bring it back for a hop ball as he never took it from place of foul?
I read it as you can take a solo and go within 4m. If you are outside the 4m it goes back for a conventional free to the same team.
I am sure we will find out at the weekend when everyone including referees will definitely know what the rules are.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on February 28, 2025, 04:36:52 PMI'm open minded to most of the rules but the advanced mark is a total non-event. They probably think they're better to encourage the kick inside than to not encourage it, but it's having little to no impact
If a player has a good kick from outside 45 yards he be as well trying to take a shot a goal for two points than rely on kicking it inside for an advanced mark.
Quote from: GTP on February 28, 2025, 10:03:50 PMI read it as you can take a solo and go within 4m. If you are outside the 4m it goes back for a conventional free to the same team.
I am sure we will find out at the weekend when everyone including referees will definitely know what the rules are.
You can pass the ball to someone when fouled to take solo and go. This has to be within 4 metres. He can then take 4 metres before having a solo. So taking them potentially 8m up the field without contact, mental rule.
My reading is that if a player is fouled and his momentum takes him a bit away from the foul, or he's a bit away from the exact spot of the foul when the ball is returned to him, then he can solo and go as long he is within 4m of the exact foul location. He can travel 4m after the solo before being tackled.
If he is more than 4m from the exact foul location, a conventional free is taken, with no solo and go option - if he solos beyond the 4m of the exact foul location, hop ball.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on March 01, 2025, 12:21:24 AMMy reading is that if a player is fouled and his momentum takes him a bit away from the foul, or he's a bit away from the exact spot of the foul when the ball is returned to him, then he can solo and go as long he is within 4m of the exact foul location. He can travel 4m after the solo before being tackled.
If he is more than 4m from the exact foul location, a conventional free is taken, with no solo and go option - if he solos beyond the 4m of the exact foul location, hop ball.
Are we giving people permission to take the 'free' 4 meters from the actual spot of foul?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2025, 12:37:46 AMQuote from: Ball Hopper on March 01, 2025, 12:21:24 AMMy reading is that if a player is fouled and his momentum takes him a bit away from the foul, or he's a bit away from the exact spot of the foul when the ball is returned to him, then he can solo and go as long he is within 4m of the exact foul location. He can travel 4m after the solo before being tackled.
If he is more than 4m from the exact foul location, a conventional free is taken, with no solo and go option - if he solos beyond the 4m of the exact foul location, hop ball.
Are we giving people permission to take the 'free' 4 meters from the actual spot of foul?
As long as the player is within 4m of the foul and his first action is solo, then play continues.
That sentence explains everything clearly in my head. Outside 4m, bring it back for conventional free. Steps before solo, hop ball.
20 seconds for free kicks? Is that the end off keepers strolling up to kick them?
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 01, 2025, 06:51:28 AM20 seconds for free kicks? Is that the end off keepers strolling up to kick them?
Most keepers will be out field anyways.. with the automatic free instead of a hop ball for taking more than 20 seconds for a kick out it should speed things up
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 01, 2025, 06:51:28 AM20 seconds for free kicks? Is that the end off keepers strolling up to kick them?
If Dublin Joe had of had the guts he would have hopped the ball at the end of the 2011 final rather than allowing Cluxton 20 minutes to amble up the field and take the free that probably changed the course of GAA.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
Yes
Quote from: on the sideline on March 01, 2025, 09:47:06 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
Yes
No
Quote from: JoG2 on March 01, 2025, 09:52:58 AMQuote from: on the sideline on March 01, 2025, 09:47:06 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
Yes
No
No is correct by my reading of things
Why have we not seen a big target man on the edge of the square being used more? Between the mark rule, tap & go and the backs having to guard the 2 pointers I'm surprised we haven't seen more of it. Given the job Walsh is doing for Galway on the 2 pointers, does a fit Comer not become the perfect combination?
Quote from: JoG2 on March 01, 2025, 09:52:58 AMQuote from: on the sideline on March 01, 2025, 09:47:06 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
Yes
No
It is. If the shot is missed, he's tackled or blocked or no advantage accrues it goes back to the mark position. And at that stage anyone can take the kick. They're going to play it for up to 20 seconds.
Unless this has changed since the 18th February, the rule is as above.
Which I now see it has🙈lol Ah jeez lads this is going to be messy, you bring players in and go through rules, they start to get to grips with them and then they're changed as we go. That one is now as clear as mud - the more they change these rules the messier it's getting. What is the right answer to it now?
Was clear originally, but now if he misses after a 'clear advantage' is that advantage over or go back to mark? It doesn't state either clearly. So how's a referee, coach or player supposed to be clear on that? Mess
Quote from: JoG2 on March 01, 2025, 09:52:58 AMQuote from: on the sideline on March 01, 2025, 09:47:06 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
Yes
No
Cheers lads clear as mud lol.
Quote from: on the sideline on March 01, 2025, 12:44:22 PMQuote from: JoG2 on March 01, 2025, 09:52:58 AMQuote from: on the sideline on March 01, 2025, 09:47:06 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
Yes
No
It is. If the shot is missed, he's tackled or blocked or no advantage accrues it goes back to the mark position. And at that stage anyone can take the kick. They're going to play it for up to 20 seconds.
Unless this has changed since the 18th February, the rule is as above.
Which I now see it has🙈lol Ah jeez lads this is going to be messy, you bring players in and go through rules, they start to get to grips with them and then they're changed as we go.
No time limit - ref's discretion
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 01, 2025, 12:58:36 PMQuote from: on the sideline on March 01, 2025, 12:44:22 PMQuote from: JoG2 on March 01, 2025, 09:52:58 AMQuote from: on the sideline on March 01, 2025, 09:47:06 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 28, 2025, 11:13:33 AMQuote from: Rossfan on February 28, 2025, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/335292
On the advanced mark- if thr player has a clear advantage but puts the ball wide/shot is saved/blocked, is it still taken back for the mark?
Yes
No
It is. If the shot is missed, he's tackled or blocked or no advantage accrues it goes back to the mark position. And at that stage anyone can take the kick. They're going to play it for up to 20 seconds.
Unless this has changed since the 18th February, the rule is as above.
Which I now see it has🙈lol Ah jeez lads this is going to be messy, you bring players in and go through rules, they start to get to grips with them and then they're changed as we go.
No time limit - ref's discretion
Yea you're right it's refs discretion, but the refs who were at our seminar said that 20 seconds was the rough timeframe they'd been given
https://www.gaa.ie/article/football-review-committee-update
The review process will continue early next week when the FRC reconvenes and factors in the findings from round five of the competition.
At that juncture the committee will present its findings and any recommendations to the Standing Committee on Playing Rules who will in turn liaise with both Coiste Bainistíochta and Ard Chomhairlewho are seheduled to meet on Thursday 13th Marchto determine the future implementation of the enhancements before the commencement of the football championship.
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 01, 2025, 02:39:27 PMhttps://www.gaa.ie/article/football-review-committee-update
The review process will continue early next week when the FRC reconvenes and factors in the findings from round five of the competition.
At that juncture the committee will present its findings and any recommendations to the Standing Committee on Playing Rules who will in turn liaise with both Coiste Bainistíochta and Ard Chomhairlewho are seheduled to meet on Thursday 13th Marchto determine the future implementation of the enhancements before the commencement of the football championship.
So which rules are we playing with this weekend?
If rules are having to be tweaked this later in the day possibly an argument not to thaw the change from the original rule at all.
Soli and Go and 3 men up the only 2 that properly work.
Quote from: BigGreenField on March 01, 2025, 05:35:18 PMIf rules are having to be tweaked this later in the day possibly an argument not to thaw the change from the original rule at all.
Soli and Go and 3 men up the only 2 that properly work.
And the keeper not allowed on the ball in his own half
3 up well intentioned but too hard to police, get rid.
This 20 second kickout rule must be the worst thing yet.
Let kickouts go short.
Seems to be the Dubs and Kerry media mostly crying about goalkeepers, its not the Ulster teams fault that they'd the tactical brains to develop a new tactic.
Is the keeper allowed to carry the ball back into his own half , after he receives the ball in the opposition half?
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2025, 10:31:06 PMIs the keeper allowed to carry the ball back into his own half , after he receives the ball in the opposition half?
Maybe
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2025, 11:06:58 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2025, 10:31:06 PMIs the keeper allowed to carry the ball back into his own half , after he receives the ball in the opposition half?
Maybe
Well, if you don't know... we're frigged
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2025, 11:14:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2025, 11:06:58 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2025, 10:31:06 PMIs the keeper allowed to carry the ball back into his own half , after he receives the ball in the opposition half?
Maybe
Well, if you don't know... we're frigged
Fourth game tomorrow, I'll just see how it goes
Hope Jim Gavin's vanity w**k-fest project gets binned before he destroys 150 years of heritage...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2025, 11:06:58 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2025, 10:31:06 PMIs the keeper allowed to carry the ball back into his own half , after he receives the ball in the opposition half?
Maybe
yes as far as know apologies on behalf of attention seeker.
Quote from: Armagh4sam2024 on March 02, 2025, 12:21:14 AMHope Jim Gavin's vanity w**k-fest project gets binned before he destroys 150 years of heritage...
Agreed.
Arrogant man.
I wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
100%. I agree.
It's all too rushed. Like let's make as many changes as possible inside a few months. Not running pre season comps was a mess also.
Change 2 things this year. Review it and see.
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2025, 08:00:22 AMQuote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
100%. I agree.
It's all too rushed. Like let's make as many changes as possible inside a few months. Not running pre season comps was a mess also.
Change 2 things this year. Review it and see.
I'd say the horse has bolted unfortunately.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2025, 08:08:57 AMQuote from: marty34 on March 02, 2025, 08:00:22 AMQuote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
100%. I agree.
It's all too rushed. Like let's make as many changes as possible inside a few months. Not running pre season comps was a mess also.
Change 2 things this year. Review it and see.
I'd say the horse has bolted unfortunately.
Ego is going to play a massive part in this. They've done too much in one go as others have said. Then constant corrections and amendments. For me, it has become unnecessarily messy. Instead of people starting to get to grips with the changes, now I'd say there's even more confusion. There cannot be confusion over any of those new rules. If there's not total clarity for everyone then the rule isn't fit for purpose and needs to go.
But will the egos of those involved at the top acknowledge this? Doubt it.
It was telling last night that Canavan had no answer to Rafferty when he spoke about the kickouts for example.
Quote from: on the sideline on March 02, 2025, 08:16:50 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2025, 08:08:57 AMQuote from: marty34 on March 02, 2025, 08:00:22 AMQuote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
100%. I agree.
It's all too rushed. Like let's make as many changes as possible inside a few months. Not running pre season comps was a mess also.
Change 2 things this year. Review it and see.
I'd say the horse has bolted unfortunately.
Ego is going to play a massive part in this. They've done too much in one go as others have said. Then constant corrections and amendments. For me, it has become unnecessarily messy. Instead of people starting to get to grips with the changes, now I'd say there's even more confusion. There cannot be confusion over any of those new rules. If there's not total clarity for everyone then the rule isn't fit for purpose and needs to go.
But will the egos of those involved at the top acknowledge this? Doubt it.
It was telling last night that Canavan had no answer to Rafferty when he spoke about the kickouts for example.
Spot on.
We saw last night that 3 up is hard to police with umpires and linesmen so god help the man on his own at a club match.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2025, 08:08:57 AMQuote from: marty34 on March 02, 2025, 08:00:22 AMQuote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
100%. I agree.
It's all too rushed. Like let's make as many changes as possible inside a few months. Not running pre season comps was a mess also.
Change 2 things this year. Review it and see.
I'd say the horse has bolted unfortunately.
It's not far away - the game is much more entertaining. They haven't ironed out the unintended consequences and there is too much confusion from refs. I laugh at all this nonsense about kickouts turning into a lottery and being an unseemly mess - which I see as one of the successes of the new rules. This is one area where the new rules take is back to the pre-McGuinness era.
Quote from: APM on March 02, 2025, 08:21:11 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2025, 08:08:57 AMQuote from: marty34 on March 02, 2025, 08:00:22 AMQuote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
100%. I agree.
It's all too rushed. Like let's make as many changes as possible inside a few months. Not running pre season comps was a mess also.
Change 2 things this year. Review it and see.
I'd say the horse has bolted unfortunately.
It's not far away - the game is much more entertaining. They haven't ironed out the unintended consequences and there is too much confusion from refs. I laugh at all this nonsense about kickouts turning into a lottery and being an unseemly mess - which I see as one of the successes of the new rules. This is one area where the new rules take is back to the pre-McGuinness era.
Shur the new rule of not going back to the gk would have lead to more of those aerial contests anyway. The arc isn't needed for that. Teams would press up hard on short kickouts and, especially now with the kickout being time limited, the goalkeeper would have to go long if his short options were all shut down.
But to limit a teams space to take their own restart they way they have with the arc is ridiculous. It isn't needed.
This is a perfect example of them bringing in too many changes in the one go, especially ones that overlap each other like this.
Quote from: on the sideline on March 02, 2025, 08:31:27 AMQuote from: APM on March 02, 2025, 08:21:11 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2025, 08:08:57 AMQuote from: marty34 on March 02, 2025, 08:00:22 AMQuote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
100%. I agree.
It's all too rushed. Like let's make as many changes as possible inside a few months. Not running pre season comps was a mess also.
Change 2 things this year. Review it and see.
I'd say the horse has bolted unfortunately.
It's not far away - the game is much more entertaining. They haven't ironed out the unintended consequences and there is too much confusion from refs. I laugh at all this nonsense about kickouts turning into a lottery and being an unseemly mess - which I see as one of the successes of the new rules. This is one area where the new rules take is back to the pre-McGuinness era.
Shur the new rule of not going back to the gk would have lead to more of those aerial contests anyway. The arc isn't needed for that. Teams would press up hard on short kickouts and, especially now with the kickout being time limited, the goalkeeper would have to go long if his short options were all shut down.
But to limit a teams space to take their own restart they way they have with the arc is ridiculous. It isn't needed.
This is a perfect example of them bringing in too many changes in the one go, especially ones that overlap each other like this.
Agree.
Come the dry pitches of summer football would the jeopardy of the goalkeeper up the field v the chance of a turnover and a long range shot at goal - as happened yesterday in the Laois/Antrim match - become a factor? If the three forwards stay wide of the goal it will mean they can't be marked as tightly without leaving the goal wide open. In any case I'm sure there will be many and varied ways used to get round/abuse/exploit the new rules as the season evolves.
It's not Gaelic Football for me."
"What we have now is outdoor basketball with a bit of soccer zonal, with 11 behind the ball defending and a bit of rugby thrown in with 11 around the ball for kickouts."
Robbie Brennan Meath Manager on the new rules
Did a game today, was ok for most parts, missed a 3v3 and called a 3v3 incorrectly until I noticed the lad was on the sideline. But ended up giving an indirect free for team in possession
It's going to be more difficult come league championship when more on the line
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2025, 11:07:17 PMIt's not Gaelic Football for me."
"What we have now is outdoor basketball with a bit of soccer zonal, with 11 behind the ball defending and a bit of rugby thrown in with 11 around the ball for kickouts."
Robbie Brennan Meath Manager on the new rules
What had we the last few years?
Quote from: Rossfan on March 02, 2025, 11:27:28 PMQuote from: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2025, 11:07:17 PMIt's not Gaelic Football for me."
"What we have now is outdoor basketball with a bit of soccer zonal, with 11 behind the ball defending and a bit of rugby thrown in with 11 around the ball for kickouts."
Robbie Brennan Meath Manager on the new rules
What had we the last few years?
100%
He has described football post 2012
Quote from: Rossfan on March 02, 2025, 11:27:28 PMQuote from: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2025, 11:07:17 PMIt's not Gaelic Football for me."
"What we have now is outdoor basketball with a bit of soccer zonal, with 11 behind the ball defending and a bit of rugby thrown in with 11 around the ball for kickouts."
Robbie Brennan Meath Manager on the new rules
What had we the last few years?
He was only asked what he thinks of the game now under the new rules and he's managing a team who's in good form and could just as easily have talked it up as great.
Quote from: on the sideline on March 02, 2025, 08:31:27 AMQuote from: APM on March 02, 2025, 08:21:11 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2025, 08:08:57 AMQuote from: marty34 on March 02, 2025, 08:00:22 AMQuote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
100%. I agree.
It's all too rushed. Like let's make as many changes as possible inside a few months. Not running pre season comps was a mess also.
Change 2 things this year. Review it and see.
I'd say the horse has bolted unfortunately.
It's not far away - the game is much more entertaining. They haven't ironed out the unintended consequences and there is too much confusion from refs. I laugh at all this nonsense about kickouts turning into a lottery and being an unseemly mess - which I see as one of the successes of the new rules. This is one area where the new rules take is back to the pre-McGuinness era.
Shur the new rule of not going back to the gk would have lead to more of those aerial contests anyway. The arc isn't needed for that. Teams would press up hard on short kickouts and, especially now with the kickout being time limited, the goalkeeper would have to go long if his short options were all shut down.
But to limit a teams space to take their own restart they way they have with the arc is ridiculous. It isn't needed.
This is a perfect example of them bringing in too many changes in the one go, especially ones that overlap each other like this.
Nail on the head
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on March 02, 2025, 07:25:02 AMI wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.
That would have been ideal, unfortunately the moaning by managers and other vested interests each time there's a rule change means new rules can only be introduced every 5 years - therefore the incremental approach could take 20 years to reach its conclusion!!
Managers crying about rules and the game, should have a bit of self reflection and see where they have taken the game over the last 20 years. You hear them talk about control and that's what they miss. Controlling the life of the game and the players on the pitch.
Much more enjoyable to watch and games have lots of action. A lead doesn't seem out of reach, due to the scoring but also cause the team with the lead can't control and slow the game as they use to. In fact, it's dangerous for them to take foot off the gas as they struggle to get a foothold again.
Few minor things can be tided up like the hooter, maybe a throw up for the 20 second breach etc.
The dissent rule has certainly helped at inter county, never seen any balls moved up 50m over weekend.
At club game at weekend and was no drama with 3 up, 3 back rule, ref said it's ok to patrol.
Spot on Louther.
The managers/coaches had created a game of chess controlled by themselves.
The "Enhanced Rules" are bringing some chaos and players having to react on the spot.
A question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
I'd like to know the answer to this too.
It maybe a short enough kick (21m) for a 14 year old, but this rule will mean teams are more likely to get hemmed in, because most U14s kickouts won't clear much beyond 45. Therefore it's very handy for opposition teams to flood the area between the 45 & the arc and make the kickout a lottery. Grand to drive a bit of chaos at county level for two evenly matched teams. But when it's a one sided U14 game, and one team is struggling to get out of their own half it's a different story.
This is lifted from the Down discussion board - my understanding is that each county can decide which of the enhanced rules are implemented at underage level in each age group. My first reading of this was that it sounded fair enough but on second read for u14 with players wanting to take possession for the defending team having to be outside the 40m arc it puts a lot of pressure on the goalkeeper. And I wouldn't want to be refereeing it.
U12 Football:
Whilst it is not officially required that rules be introduced at u12, we see this age as good opportunity to introduce some of their more basic and manageable principles. It is important that we do not detach our juvenile games completely from what our young players watch their County heroes playing in Pairc Esler or on the TV. We would recommend therefore that the following elements of the new FRC rules be introduced at u12 level in 2025;
• 1 v 1 throw-in
• Solo & Go (at u12 level, the Solo & Go may only be utilised when a player is fouled whilst in possession of the ball (physical fouls only). Solo & Go can only be taken by the player who was initially fouled.
• Dissent – Punishable by a 20m advancement
U14 Football:
We would recommend that the following elements of the new FRC rules be introduced at u14
level in 2025;
• 1 v 1 throw-in
• Solo & Go (full implantation)
• Goalkeeper Rule (full implementation)
• New Scoring System (2 points outside 40m arc)
• Dissent - 50m penalty
• 3 v 3 Structure at 15-a-side
• 2 v 2 Structure at 13-a-side
U14 Kickouts:
We would recommend that the following variation of the FRC Kickout Rule be adopted at u14
Level in both League and Championships moving forward:
• Kickouts may be taken from the ground or out of the hands, from the 21m line.
• Players on both teams can position themselves anywhere on the field of play but must remain at least 13m from the player hitting the kickout.
• Any player on the team taking the kickout, wanting to gain possession of the ball directly from the kickout, must be outside the 40m arc, when the ball is kicked (players may move into the arc to gain possession of the ball once the ball is kicked).
• Players from the opposing team may position themselves inside the 40m arc and win possession of the ball.
• Where a team nominate an outfield player to hit the kickout, the player wearing the Goalkeeper jersey must remain inside the small rectangle. This player cannot receive the ball.
U16 & U18 Football:
We would recommend that the following elements of the new FRC rules be introduced at u16
& U18 level in 2025;
• Full Engagement with all aspects of the new FRC Rules
• 3 v 3 Structure at 15-a-side
• 2 v 2 Structure at 13-a-side
Ulster Schools GAA have confirmed to us that they will NOT be implementing the new FRC rules in any of their competitions across the remainder of the 24/25 academic year. We acknowledge that this may cause slight confusion for players playing club and schools football simultaneously, but it will only be for a small window as most of the Ulster Schools competitions will be concluded by Easter
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
Which arc are you referring to? The 13m or 40m?
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 03, 2025, 03:34:25 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
Which arc are you referring to? The 13m or 40m?
The 40m arc.
Neither referee is correct on this. You do not need to be outside the 40m arc for kickouts, nor does the ball need to travel outside the 40m arc before the ball can be touched by the team taking the kickout.
The ball must be kicked from the centre of the 20m line and travel forwards 13m. ie it cant be touched inside the 13 arc/D.
The only difference from the old rules is that players from either team may remain inside the 20m line but cannot touch the ball and must be 13m from the player taking the restart.
Before anyone jumps on this, these are U14 rules set by a particular county. Each county has the power to set their own for underage.
Brennan is only partly correct. However given how unwatchable football has been for years now any change is welcome. He mentions the rugby type scums in the middle of the field after kickouts. May I suggest he and all other managers teach their players how to field a high ball? Or even how to jump for a high ball? Begin teaching all underage players how to as well instead of all the modern "tactics" these coaches have been poisoning our game with for years.
It's all good fielding a high ball but the minute that guy drops he's surrounded and done for over carrying generally
Assuming this high fielding on a kick out? He still has his Mark to avoid been surrounded and over carrying?
That was why the kick out mark was brought in.
Quote from: Louther on March 03, 2025, 08:40:06 PMAssuming this high fielding on a kick out? He still has his Mark to avoid been surrounded and over carrying?
That's true
Is there more high fielding? Doesn't seem like it,maybe 1 game like Derry v Kerry game, but in General it's like a rugby line out with up to 6/7 going up to just break a ball.
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
In Tyrone and I presume for most other counties at U14 level the kickout rule is the same as last year, I.e. taken from the 21, all players must be outside the 13m arc and the defending team cannot touch the ball until it is outside the 20m arc
Quote from: Louther on March 03, 2025, 09:45:31 AMManagers crying about rules and the game, should have a bit of self reflection and see where they have taken the game over the last 20 years. You hear them talk about control and that's what they miss. Controlling the life of the game and the players on the pitch.
Much more enjoyable to watch and games have lots of action. A lead doesn't seem out of reach, due to the scoring but also cause the team with the lead can't control and slow the game as they use to. In fact, it's dangerous for them to take foot off the gas as they struggle to get a foothold again.
Few minor things can be tided up like the hooter, maybe a throw up for the 20 second breach etc.
The dissent rule has certainly helped at inter county, never seen any balls moved up 50m over weekend.
At club game at weekend and was no drama with 3 up, 3 back rule, ref said it's ok to patrol.
This is an excellent point. Thank you. As a traditionalist, I naturally have felt threatened by so many changes. It has become a trend, in so many sports, for coaches/managers to try to control all, Certainly in contrast to the old days of throwing a ball onto the pitch and letting the players go at it.
To offer a unique Canadian perspective, as a box lacrosse fan, I watched a highly individualistic game suffocated around the turn of the century by coaches micro managing everything. The sport has never recovered.
In light of that, I'll be more openminded about the rule changes. I might even get used to the chaotic pace, which has disturbed my comfort zone.
I still think the 2 pointer is a bad idea(the comment about turning the game into basketball isn't unfair). I'm also concerned about how disadvantaged teams are when they have the kickout. I hope alterations can be made to help them a bit.
Quote from: PMG1 on March 03, 2025, 11:27:19 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
In Tyrone and I presume for most other counties at U14 level the kickout rule is the same as last year, I.e. taken from the 21, all players must be outside the 13m arc and the defending team cannot touch the ball until it is outside the 20m arc
Is this the case throughout underage? Was at a game at the weekend and the opposition team left a forward standing behind the keeper on every kickout. Granted it was a tanking match so maybe the ref didn't care to much
Quote from: thebigfullforward on March 04, 2025, 08:04:42 AMQuote from: PMG1 on March 03, 2025, 11:27:19 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
In Tyrone and I presume for most other counties at U14 level the kickout rule is the same as last year, I.e. taken from the 21, all players must be outside the 13m arc and the defending team cannot touch the ball until it is outside the 20m arc
Is this the case throughout underage? Was at a game at the weekend and the opposition team left a forward standing behind the keeper on every kickout. Granted it was a tanking match so maybe the ref didn't care to much
I think senior teams from the games I've done are missing a trick on this, I'd leave a player right in there to potentially pick up a quick pass from a ball won out on the 45 from a kickout
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41586070.html
Quote from: PMG1 on March 03, 2025, 11:27:19 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
In Tyrone and I presume for most other counties at U14 level the kickout rule is the same as last year, I.e. taken from the 21, all players must be outside the 13m arc and the defending team cannot touch the ball until it is outside the 20m arc
The rules I explained are the rules in Tyrone as I think that's where tbrick's lad plays. What do you mean by the 20m arc?
Quote from: thebigfullforward on March 04, 2025, 08:04:42 AMQuote from: PMG1 on March 03, 2025, 11:27:19 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
In Tyrone and I presume for most other counties at U14 level the kickout rule is the same as last year, I.e. taken from the 21, all players must be outside the 13m arc and the defending team cannot touch the ball until it is outside the 20m arc
Is this the case throughout underage? Was at a game at the weekend and the opposition team left a forward standing behind the keeper on every kickout. Granted it was a tanking match so maybe the ref didn't care to much
That's allowed in the rules for all age groups including Senior. The only change from the rules applied at Senior is for U14 age group.
Lots of people giving out managers expressing their opinions. Some thoughts.
They know the game better than anyone else, being involved in it several nights a week and thinking about it 24/7. They are best placed to know what can work and what can't.
They get well paid you will say. Maybe some do but it is money hard earned. They put massive time and effort into it.
Let them learn to coach better you will say. Where are the managers who will take over if some of these people leave? Who will replace McGeeney? Do Meath want to go back to Colm O'Rourke? Where will Galway go after Joyce? What do Donegal look like without McGuinness? How hard was it for Derry and Westmeath to find someone if there are so many managers out there who can adopt to these changes better?
Lets see some of the pundits giving out about managers take their places and see how they do!
Quote from: The Trap on March 04, 2025, 11:10:30 AMLots of people giving out managers expressing their opinions. Some thoughts.
They know the game better than anyone else, being involved in it several nights a week and thinking about it 24/7. They are best placed to know what can work and what can't.
They get well paid you will say. Maybe some do but it is money hard earned. They put massive time and effort into it.
Let them learn to coach better you will say. Where are the managers who will take over if some of these people leave? Who will replace McGeeney? Do Meath want to go back to Colm O'Rourke? Where will Galway go after Joyce? What do Donegal look like without McGuinness? How hard was it for Derry and Westmeath to find someone if there are so many managers out there who can adopt to these changes better?
Lets see some of the pundits giving out about managers take their places and see how they do!
If you were given the task of fixing the NHS, or indeed any public service, you'd need to be especially particular about which of the existing management personnel should be listened to.
They might know the old process better than anyone. But having fed into and profited most from understanding how it worked before will in most cases bring reluctance to change / improvement.
GAA management teams need to be treated similarly, at an arm's length. Some of them are going to lose out dramatically as a result of this change. And you know what? Good.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 04, 2025, 11:48:07 AMQuote from: The Trap on March 04, 2025, 11:10:30 AMLots of people giving out managers expressing their opinions. Some thoughts.
They know the game better than anyone else, being involved in it several nights a week and thinking about it 24/7. They are best placed to know what can work and what can't.
They get well paid you will say. Maybe some do but it is money hard earned. They put massive time and effort into it.
Let them learn to coach better you will say. Where are the managers who will take over if some of these people leave? Who will replace McGeeney? Do Meath want to go back to Colm O'Rourke? Where will Galway go after Joyce? What do Donegal look like without McGuinness? How hard was it for Derry and Westmeath to find someone if there are so many managers out there who can adopt to these changes better?
Lets see some of the pundits giving out about managers take their places and see how they do!
If you were given the task of fixing the NHS, or indeed any public service, you'd need to be especially particular about which of the existing management personnel should be listened to.
They might know the old process better than anyone. But having fed into and profited most from understanding how it worked before will in most cases bring reluctance to change / improvement.
GAA management teams need to be treated similarly, at an arm's length. Some of them are going to lose out dramatically as a result of this change. And you know what? Good.
Oisin McConville said they should consult with managers and that's exactly what I thought. They have changed the game they played to what it was.
I would consult refs though and see what they think is actually feasible especially at club level.
That's ok Clonian.....you get rid of all of these managers that you say are holding the game back and replace them with who? Maybe they will find that when they are in the same position their job is to win competitive games and do the best with the players at their disposal.
Not everyone gets the chance to manage the best team ever and then dictate to everyone else how they think the game should be played.
Managers were getting their last pitch in before the FRC post week 5 review.
I'm not sure I'd listen to many of them - they are thinking purely in terms of winning for their own team and themselves on a fairly short term basis, which is totally fine, but not in keeping with improving the overall health of the sport.
As far as I'm concerned there's been a considerable uplift in entertainment throughout the league thus far, and weather has been mostly poor.
Is the whole thing perfect? Absolutely not, tweaks are needed, but not wholsesale changes, and anyone expecting scrapping of rules are way off.
My feeling is many spectators just aren't prepared to do the work to learn the new rules but will speak to how confusing it is.
I also see a growing understanding of the rules in the stands as the games have went on.
So we need to get rid of all the current managers who want to win and replace them with a load of new people whose job it is to entertain the people in the crowd?
That really is a new sport we are inventing because no other sport I know is not all about winning.
Soccer will have to change a load of rules:
-2 goals for a score from outside the box.
- Must keep 2 forwards and 2 backs in each half at all times.
- Keepers must hoof all kick outs into the other half like they used to.
- Give out to the ref and the ball moved forward 50 metres.
Can you ever imagine them doing that to soccer to make it more entertaining? We want every game to be 5 4 from now in.......
Quote from: The Trap on March 04, 2025, 02:45:51 PMSo we need to get rid of all the current managers who want to win and replace them with a load of new people whose job it is to entertain the people in the crowd?
That really is a new sport we are inventing because no other sport I know is not all about winning.
Soccer will have to change a load of rules:
-2 goals for a score from outside the box.
- Must keep 2 forwards and 2 backs in each half at all times.
- Keepers must hoof all kick outs into the other half like they used to.
- Give out to the ref and the ball moved forward 50 metres.
Can you ever imagine them doing that to soccer to make it more entertaining? We want every game to be 5 4 from now in.......
In a nutshell, I don't know why people talk about 'neuturals' enjoying the game, like any sport you enjoy it when your team is playing. I want to see good players playing the game not just contestant 50/50s. Like even the kickouts, yeah I don't like the keeper taking ages but there's already a mechanism there, the ref can hop the ball if he's taking the piss. That was completely fine. They actually took away the short option and then put keeper under time pressure to try pick a pass, it's insane. If that's what they want they'd be as well just doing away with kickouts and having a throw in at the half way every time there's a score if they just want things contested ffs.
Quote from: The Trap on March 04, 2025, 12:57:33 PMThat's ok Clonian.....you get rid of all of these managers that you say are holding the game back and replace them with who? Maybe they will find that when they are in the same position their job is to win competitive games and do the best with the players at their disposal.
Not everyone gets the chance to manage the best team ever and then dictate to everyone else how they think the game should be played.
Where did I say get rid of all of the managers?
Gaelic football had become perhaps the most boring sport in the world. Less and less people were attending games. So the FRC were set up to try and help our game. Modern coaches and managers want success because it enhances their CV , enabling them to earn more money by moving to a bigger club or county. Most have no loyalty, its all about money.
In general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Quote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
That's exactly right! A yellow card would stop dissent just as quickly. There never was any reason for the 50 metre penalty.
Also a great point about time wasting goalkeepers. There was already a rule and punishment against that.
Quote from: statto on March 04, 2025, 04:11:50 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
But sure ya could have 5 players abusing the ref after he's moved it and it's still only moved once? Same principal applies. A player booked is much worse for the team and a better deterrent.
I hope the FRC will be ignoring most of the (Ulster says no) comments here.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 02:50:31 PMQuote from: The Trap on March 04, 2025, 02:45:51 PMSo we need to get rid of all the current managers who want to win and replace them with a load of new people whose job it is to entertain the people in the crowd?
That really is a new sport we are inventing because no other sport I know is not all about winning.
Soccer will have to change a load of rules:
-2 goals for a score from outside the box.
- Must keep 2 forwards and 2 backs in each half at all times.
- Keepers must hoof all kick outs into the other half like they used to.
- Give out to the ref and the ball moved forward 50 metres.
Can you ever imagine them doing that to soccer to make it more entertaining? We want every game to be 5 4 from now in.......
In a nutshell, I don't know why people talk about 'neuturals' enjoying the game, like any sport you enjoy it when your team is playing. I want to see good players playing the game not just contestant 50/50s. Like even the kickouts, yeah I don't like the keeper taking ages but there's already a mechanism there, the ref can hop the ball if he's taking the piss. That was completely fine. They actually took away the short option and then put keeper under time pressure to try pick a pass, it's insane. If that's what they want they'd be as well just doing away with kickouts and having a throw in at the half way every time there's a score if they just want things contested ffs.
I don't know.
I was at the end of my tether with Donegal in 2022 in the final months of Declan Bonner's term. Nothing personal towards Declan (we played entertaining football and won two Ulsters under him prior to the lockdown), but the football became so slow and negative and "safe" and risk averse that it was like watching paint dry. For the first time in my life, I was more or less indifferent to winning that year's Ulster final, seeing a loss as perhaps of benefit in the long term as it would bring change. And I wasn't the only one who felt that way as the lopsided attendances against Derry and Armagh in Clones showed.
And it wasn't just Donegal. Teams holding possession for minutes at a time, with an extraordinarily talented footballer like Ciaran Kilkenny reduced to becoming notorious for being the Dublin conductor of that abominating football. Personally, outside of a compulsion (or maybe perceived obligation) to watch Donegal, I'd pretty much given up on the game that summer.
I came back to it in 2023 as we flailed about in disarray under Paddy Carr and regained a little pride under Aidan O'Rourke and Paddy Bradley. At least it wasn't soul destroying at that point watching good players (at least those who hadn't fled the scene) rendered automatons. And things improved for us under Jim last year, but was it entertaining from a neutral perspective?
I still haven't made up my mind yet on all of the changes, but I think we absolutely have to keep the three up/three back at the very least. It has definitely opened things up.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 04:31:52 PMQuote from: statto on March 04, 2025, 04:11:50 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
But sure ya could have 5 players abusing the ref after he's moved it and it's still only moved once? Same principal applies. A player booked is much worse for the team and a better deterrent.
You can also book players and have the 50 meter deterrent
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 04, 2025, 10:19:31 AMQuote from: PMG1 on March 03, 2025, 11:27:19 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on March 03, 2025, 12:16:58 PMA question for any referee on here.
We had an u14 game at the weekend in a development league, mostly P7s on our team. We struggled getting kickouts aways with distance being a problem for young lads playing for the first time on a full sized pitch. The ref then informed us that provided the ball travels 15m and we have no-one in the arc when the ball is kicked, that we can receive the ball in the arc - in other words players can run into the arc as soon as the ball is kicked to receive the ball.
Is this correct? In our first game we were blew up any time a player touched the ball inside the arc from the kickout so its confusing.
In Tyrone and I presume for most other counties at U14 level the kickout rule is the same as last year, I.e. taken from the 21, all players must be outside the 13m arc and the defending team cannot touch the ball until it is outside the 20m arc
The rules I explained are the rules in Tyrone as I think that's where tbrick's lad plays. What do you mean by the 20m arc?
The arc that goes from the 20m line, the 13m semi circle from the centre of the 20m line.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 06:15:55 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 04:31:52 PMQuote from: statto on March 04, 2025, 04:11:50 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
But sure ya could have 5 players abusing the ref after he's moved it and it's still only moved once? Same principal applies. A player booked is much worse for the team and a better deterrent.
You can also book players and have the 50 meter deterrent
Yes i get that, the point i was making is the op was stating if loads are giving off lot of times only one gets booked, I'm just pointing out the ball in certain circumstances can only be moved to the 13. I just think the soccer rule of if you're abusing the ref or obstruct the free kick or kick it away its a yellow card. It works well, we don't need the 50m
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 08:28:24 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 06:15:55 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 04:31:52 PMQuote from: statto on March 04, 2025, 04:11:50 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
But sure ya could have 5 players abusing the ref after he's moved it and it's still only moved once? Same principal applies. A player booked is much worse for the team and a better deterrent.
You can also book players and have the 50 meter deterrent
Yes i get that, the point i was making is the op was stating if loads are giving off lot of times only one gets booked, I'm just pointing out the ball in certain circumstances can only be moved to the 13. I just think the soccer rule of if you're abusing the ref or obstruct the free kick or kick it away its a yellow card. It works well, we don't need the 50m
A few games in and I haven't given the 50m rule for dissent
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2025, 08:43:23 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 08:28:24 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 06:15:55 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 04:31:52 PMQuote from: statto on March 04, 2025, 04:11:50 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
But sure ya could have 5 players abusing the ref after he's moved it and it's still only moved once? Same principal applies. A player booked is much worse for the team and a better deterrent.
You can also book players and have the 50 meter deterrent
Yes i get that, the point i was making is the op was stating if loads are giving off lot of times only one gets booked, I'm just pointing out the ball in certain circumstances can only be moved to the 13. I just think the soccer rule of if you're abusing the ref or obstruct the free kick or kick it away its a yellow card. It works well, we don't need the 50m
A few games in and I haven't given the 50m rule for dissent
Yeah but you tend to use some common sense and understand players get frustrated. You moved many for the not handing the ball back? What you think on that one come summer lol
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 08:53:41 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2025, 08:43:23 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 08:28:24 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 06:15:55 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 04:31:52 PMQuote from: statto on March 04, 2025, 04:11:50 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
But sure ya could have 5 players abusing the ref after he's moved it and it's still only moved once? Same principal applies. A player booked is much worse for the team and a better deterrent.
You can also book players and have the 50 meter deterrent
Yes i get that, the point i was making is the op was stating if loads are giving off lot of times only one gets booked, I'm just pointing out the ball in certain circumstances can only be moved to the 13. I just think the soccer rule of if you're abusing the ref or obstruct the free kick or kick it away its a yellow card. It works well, we don't need the 50m
A few games in and I haven't given the 50m rule for dissent
Yeah but you tend to use some common sense and understand players get frustrated. You moved many for the not handing the ball back? What you think on that one come summer lol
Haven't done it and the odd one that 'forgot' I explained come the league this will be different and result in 50m free!
No push backs from either teams when I explained the rules. I think I know the difference between someone acting the twat or genuine mistake, unfortunately the rules don't allow for that and the gurning from the sidelines would be enough to just follow it by the letter..
There are still some that I'm constantly unsure of completely and the 3v3 rule will be impossible at club games unless I see it, have already 'fallen' for the 'they have only 2 back' calls only for it to be incorrect and I've blown and stopped attacking play!
So I'm approaching it with the attitude of if I see it I'll call it only, I don't need reminders as I'll be watching play not always looking behind me
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2025, 09:01:49 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 08:53:41 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2025, 08:43:23 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 08:28:24 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 06:15:55 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 04:31:52 PMQuote from: statto on March 04, 2025, 04:11:50 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
But sure ya could have 5 players abusing the ref after he's moved it and it's still only moved once? Same principal applies. A player booked is much worse for the team and a better deterrent.
You can also book players and have the 50 meter deterrent
Yes i get that, the point i was making is the op was stating if loads are giving off lot of times only one gets booked, I'm just pointing out the ball in certain circumstances can only be moved to the 13. I just think the soccer rule of if you're abusing the ref or obstruct the free kick or kick it away its a yellow card. It works well, we don't need the 50m
A few games in and I haven't given the 50m rule for dissent
Yeah but you tend to use some common sense and understand players get frustrated. You moved many for the not handing the ball back? What you think on that one come summer lol
Haven't done it and the odd one that 'forgot' I explained come the league this will be different and result in 50m free!
No push backs from either teams when I explained the rules. I think I know the difference between someone acting the twat or genuine mistake, unfortunately the rules don't allow for that and the gurning from the sidelines would be enough to just follow it by the letter..
There are still some that I'm constantly unsure of completely and the 3v3 rule will be impossible at club games unless I see it, have already 'fallen' for the 'they have only 2 back' calls only for it to be incorrect and I've blown and stopped attacking play!
So I'm approaching it with the attitude of if I see it I'll call it only, I don't need reminders as I'll be watching play not always looking behind me
Yeah fair play to you that is clearly the best way to approach it with a bit of common sense but as you say the rules don't give that leeway. I really don't know how you're going to do it in club. The 3v3 is going to be impossible. Good luck with it lol
Settle an argument - should that point that was ruled out on 1:26:54 have been given? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMTbnFIDLM8
No. He was in the square before the ball, and as it was from a free kick, that is a square ball.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 09:10:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2025, 09:01:49 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 08:53:41 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2025, 08:43:23 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 05, 2025, 08:28:24 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2025, 06:15:55 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 04:31:52 PMQuote from: statto on March 04, 2025, 04:11:50 PMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 04, 2025, 03:48:27 PMQuote from: befair on March 04, 2025, 03:41:11 PMIn general, the new rules have been a significant improvement on the turgid stuff we've been stuck with for the last decade. I'd scrap the forward mark, the handing the ball back to the opposition, the 2-player throw in, and the fly goalie. Definietly keep the 50 meter rule for dissent; the abuse refs get is unsustainable
Why not just book the player like in soccer? Players then walk the right rope for the rest of the game. In some cases managers will take them off rather than sent off. Much better than the moving the ball 50m
The ref should not get abuse and that is why the penalty is that harsh. Technically, you could have numerous players giving the ref abuse and only receiving a yellow card, but the ref continues to get the abuse. The FRC want respect for ref normalised with this rule change it would seem which is fair enough.
But sure ya could have 5 players abusing the ref after he's moved it and it's still only moved once? Same principal applies. A player booked is much worse for the team and a better deterrent.
You can also book players and have the 50 meter deterrent
Yes i get that, the point i was making is the op was stating if loads are giving off lot of times only one gets booked, I'm just pointing out the ball in certain circumstances can only be moved to the 13. I just think the soccer rule of if you're abusing the ref or obstruct the free kick or kick it away its a yellow card. It works well, we don't need the 50m
A few games in and I haven't given the 50m rule for dissent
Yeah but you tend to use some common sense and understand players get frustrated. You moved many for the not handing the ball back? What you think on that one come summer lol
Haven't done it and the odd one that 'forgot' I explained come the league this will be different and result in 50m free!
No push backs from either teams when I explained the rules. I think I know the difference between someone acting the twat or genuine mistake, unfortunately the rules don't allow for that and the gurning from the sidelines would be enough to just follow it by the letter..
There are still some that I'm constantly unsure of completely and the 3v3 rule will be impossible at club games unless I see it, have already 'fallen' for the 'they have only 2 back' calls only for it to be incorrect and I've blown and stopped attacking play!
So I'm approaching it with the attitude of if I see it I'll call it only, I don't need reminders as I'll be watching play not always looking behind me
Yeah fair play to you that is clearly the best way to approach it with a bit of common sense but as you say the rules don't give that leeway. I really don't know how you're going to do it in club. The 3v3 is going to be impossible. Good luck with it lol
See there's the problem. If you dont see it you can't blow it, but what if the opposition breach these 3 or 4 times a game and the ref doesn't see it. We breach it once, it's seen and there's a guaranteed point. We lose by 1. Understandably we are going to be livid, we should have had another 3 points.
That's on the rules. It shouldn't be a factor that determines the outcome of a game, but this will happen. This is my problem with the rules, they have to be applicable consistently. People will say it's the same as missing a foul, but it's really not. What one ref sees as a foul another may not, whereas this should be completely black and white - and it definitely isn't and can't be for just one man.
So what's the answer?
If the player breaking the 3 up rule isn't materially affecting the play (getting on the ball, putting in tackle marking a man that would otherwise be available) , then does it really matter? If he is , then the ref will see it and blow it. I don't expect refs to catch every single time a player wrongly sets foot over the line.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 10, 2025, 04:20:20 PMIf the player breaking the 3 up rule isn't materially affecting the play (getting on the ball, putting in tackle marking a man that would otherwise be available) , then does it really matter? If he is , then the ref will see it and blow it. I don't expect refs to catch every single time a player wrongly sets foot over the line.
I don't think so. There is now a 4m tolerance where there is no free if they aren't interfering with play. My view is that I think the linesmen will now talk to the players when they step over the line to get back into their proper half. I expect the 3 up breaches to almost be a thing of the past now, presuming the tweaks get passed tonight.
I hear that the 20 seconds kick outs to go to 30 seconds
Haven't done away with the crappiest rule, 2pts from a free. I seen a minor kick 3 of these recently. So how's it a skill at senior level. Bad rule.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 12, 2025, 01:45:33 PMHaven't done away with the crappiest rule, 2pts from a free. I seen a minor kick 3 of these recently. So how's it a skill at senior level. Bad rule.
Makes even less sense when you see 45s and sideline scores just get one point.
To stop deliberate fouling!
Quote from: Rossfan on March 12, 2025, 01:52:12 PMTo stop deliberate fouling!
Think they should trial it. Big risk fouling someone deliberately now with the stricter black card rule and especially the solo and go.
But there no skill to it to the main free takers.Clifford, Walsh, McGuigan. What Dean Rock score if he come bck.
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2025, 01:47:13 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 12, 2025, 01:45:33 PMHaven't done away with the crappiest rule, 2pts from a free. I seen a minor kick 3 of these recently. So how's it a skill at senior level. Bad rule.
Makes even less sense when you see 45s and sideline scores just get one point.
I think sidelines from outside the arc still get 2pts, the problem is that the arc doesn't extend in to the end line because of the potential for pitches to be different widths countywide.
That said, if any deadball deserves 2 PTS it'd be the exact sideline kicks which don't qualify.
But totally agree, many 2 pt kicks in general aren't especially difficult, so allowing 2pt frees isn't rewarding a skill that we really want to see.
With the better weather, beggan will be tapping over 2 pters from his own half!
Quote from: onefineday on March 13, 2025, 01:45:02 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2025, 01:47:13 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 12, 2025, 01:45:33 PMHaven't done away with the crappiest rule, 2pts from a free. I seen a minor kick 3 of these recently. So how's it a skill at senior level. Bad rule.
Makes even less sense when you see 45s and sideline scores just get one point.
I think sidelines from outside the arc still get 2pts, the problem is that the arc doesn't extend in to the end line because of the potential for pitches to be different widths countywide.
That said, if any deadball deserves 2 PTS it'd be the exact sideline kicks which don't qualify.
But totally agree, many 2 pt kicks in general aren't especially difficult, so allowing 2pt frees isn't rewarding a skill that we really want to see.
With the better weather, beggan will be tapping over 2 pters from his own half!
Maybe at county level it's not difficult for two pointers but I'm not seeing too many at club level so far...
Is the rule that sidelines must be taken from the hands?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 12, 2025, 03:22:55 PMBut there no skill to it to the main free takers.Clifford, Walsh, McGuigan. What Dean Rock score if he come bck.
Sam Mulroy 1-12 against Monaghan. All 1-12 from placed balls. 0-00 from play.
The 2 point line is distorting things in favour of free takers.
Do the crime.....pay the penalty....
I remember a period of youthful destruction and trying to hurl...
Been a regular on senior team for many years but the weekends out were having an effect on my defensive game..
Needless to say after a couple of games were I gave away a load of frees I was hooked!
Took me 2 more weekends to 'catch myself on' no more frees and stayed on the team there after!
The players give away the frees, they know the punishments but if they continue to do it then the problem is not only the player but the manager for picking him!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2025, 05:44:32 PMI remember a period of youthful destruction and trying to hurl...
Been a regular on senior team for many years but the weekends out were having an effect on my defensive game..
Needless to say after a couple of games were I gave away a load of frees I was hooked!
Took me 2 more weekends to 'catch myself on' no more frees and stayed on the team there after!
The players give away the frees, they know the punishments but if they continue to do it then the problem is not only the player but the manager for picking him!
No more frees lol? If I was a manager I'd be taking you off for that. Sounds a bit passive ;)
Quote from: thebigfullforward on March 14, 2025, 08:44:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2025, 05:44:32 PMI remember a period of youthful destruction and trying to hurl...
Been a regular on senior team for many years but the weekends out were having an effect on my defensive game..
Needless to say after a couple of games were I gave away a load of frees I was hooked!
Took me 2 more weekends to 'catch myself on' no more frees and stayed on the team there after!
The players give away the frees, they know the punishments but if they continue to do it then the problem is not only the player but the manager for picking him!
No more frees lol? If I was a manager I'd be taking you off for that. Sounds a bit passive ;)
Just great defending ;)
Flash questions for all experts of the game.
Can a player, who has caught the ball, hop the ball and instead of catching the ball on the rebound, decide:
1. to fist it or touch it over an opponent's head, run around and repossess the ball (Clifford: https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1143603014072188929)
2. to fist it or touch it to pass to a teammate?
3. to score?
4. to push it to hop it many times like basketball?
And:
Can a player, who has caught the ball, solo the ball (kick it to himself) and instead of catching the ball again, decide:
1. to fist it or just touch it over an opponent's head, run around and repossess the ball?
2. to fist it or touch it to pass to a teammate?
3. to score?
4. to push it to hop it many times like basketball?
Thanks to everyone who will help me.
Marty and Doc are looking their DeLorean back
Quote from: thebigfullforward on March 14, 2025, 08:44:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2025, 05:44:32 PMI remember a period of youthful destruction and trying to hurl...
Been a regular on senior team for many years but the weekends out were having an effect on my defensive game..
Needless to say after a couple of games were I gave away a load of frees I was hooked!
Took me 2 more weekends to 'catch myself on' no more frees and stayed on the team there after!
The players give away the frees, they know the punishments but if they continue to do it then the problem is not only the player but the manager for picking him!
No more frees lol? If I was a manager I'd be taking you off for that. Sounds a bit passive ;)
Give how scoreable so many frees are, any defender who is fouls regularly is a bad defender in my book.
I remember seeing some stats before and there was a very high correlation between the team who gave away the least frees and the match winners for intercounty teams. I presume it's even higher for club games. The amount of time a defender fouls an opposition player who is only delighted to get the free at club level is way too high.
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 14, 2025, 11:21:01 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on March 14, 2025, 08:44:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2025, 05:44:32 PMI remember a period of youthful destruction and trying to hurl...
Been a regular on senior team for many years but the weekends out were having an effect on my defensive game..
Needless to say after a couple of games were I gave away a load of frees I was hooked!
Took me 2 more weekends to 'catch myself on' no more frees and stayed on the team there after!
The players give away the frees, they know the punishments but if they continue to do it then the problem is not only the player but the manager for picking him!
No more frees lol? If I was a manager I'd be taking you off for that. Sounds a bit passive ;)
Give how scoreable so many frees are, any defender who is fouls regularly is a bad defender in my book.
I remember seeing some stats before and there was a very high correlation between the team who gave away the least frees and the match winners for intercounty teams. I presume it's even higher for club games. The amount of time a defender fouls an opposition player who is only delighted to get the free at club level is way too high.
If I (or players I managed) couldn't get to the ball first, you are left with two options, making him take a shot under pressure, he scores will at least it will have been under pressure and he's taken it well, the other option was to overturn the ball in a tackle or blocking it and retrieving it after, a Hollywood block is useless if the player take the score afterwards..
Fouling as you said is a free takers dream!
In the Cavan-Down game, Down were caught for a breach of the 3v3 rule. The referee played advantage as Cavan were attacking. Cavan had the ball around midfield worked it up to the forward line where Gearoid McKiernan kicked a one point score from play to level the game.
Would Cavan have been better stopping or kicking the ball out of the play, so that they got the option of either a 2 point free at the edge of the 40m arc or worst case a tap over free in front of the posts. By going for a one point score from play and getting it this was deemed as the advantage being accrued.
Quote from: inroundthesquare on March 14, 2025, 02:55:40 PMIn the Cavan-Down game, Down were caught for a breach of the 3v3 rule. The referee played advantage as Cavan were attacking. Cavan had the ball around midfield worked it up to the forward line where Gearoid McKiernan kicked a one point score from play to level the game.
Would Cavan have been better stopping or kicking the ball out of the play, so that they got the option of either a 2 point free at the edge of the 40m arc or worst case a tap over free in front of the posts. By going for a one point score from play and getting it this was deemed as the advantage being accrued.
Was it a case that it would have just been a free on the halfway line? Or was this the old rules lol
Quote from: JoG2 on March 14, 2025, 10:51:16 AMMarty and Doc are looking their DeLorean back
Ok, but what do you think about my doubts about the rules?
At first club game of the year - huge improvement!... however umpire and ref can't seem to judge 2 pointers! Twice clearly outside arc not given..
Quote from: Truthsayer on March 15, 2025, 02:21:25 PMAt first club game of the year - huge improvement!... however umpire and ref can't seem to judge 2 pointers! Twice clearly outside arc not given..
Umpires definately can't see where the arc is. Impossible for them.
Quote from: marty34 on March 15, 2025, 03:09:53 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on March 15, 2025, 02:21:25 PMAt first club game of the year - huge improvement!... however umpire and ref can't seem to judge 2 pointers! Twice clearly outside arc not given..
Umpires definately can't see where the arc is. Impossible for them.
That was the issue. Linesman and umpire from team that scored didn't signal them and ref missed them. As clear as day to supporters.
Quote from: Truthsayer on March 15, 2025, 04:01:56 PMQuote from: marty34 on March 15, 2025, 03:09:53 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on March 15, 2025, 02:21:25 PMAt first club game of the year - huge improvement!... however umpire and ref can't seem to judge 2 pointers! Twice clearly outside arc not given..
Umpires definately can't see where the arc is. Impossible for them.
That was the issue. Linesman and umpire from team that scored didn't signal them and ref missed them. As clear as day to supporters.
His own umpires? At our game today virtually impossible to call the 3v3 calls, the confusion from sidelines, players and managers calling for it really make it impossible to properly control
What's this 2 point "directly" change?
Does that mean if theres a block on a kick or the GK touches the ball over the bar , it's given as 2 points?
No.
It's to allow for a ball hitting the post or the bar.
The "directly" could have been read as being only 1 point in such cases.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 15, 2025, 09:25:11 PMNo.
It's to allow for a ball hitting the post or the bar.
The "directly" could have been read as being only 1 point in such cases.
I see
So previously, if a kick outside the arc hit the post and went over , it was only 1 point?
Does anyone know where to get the definitive version of the final rules? All I can get is half-baked snippets from Joe.ie.
Quote from: trileacman on March 18, 2025, 10:33:24 AMDoes anyone know where to get the definitive version of the final rules? All I can get is half-baked snippets from Joe.ie.
Should be available by the 2nd week of July just in time for the All Ireland final
So some games don't have a hooter at all, some have one and once it blows that's it even if the ball is on its way over the bar, and in others they play on for a few minutes after the hooter and allow scores to stand?
Needs tidied up into some sort of consistency
In general the new rules have been a great success; tho wish they had kept 4 pts for a goal.
Quote from: befair on March 24, 2025, 02:04:00 AMIn general the new rules have been a great success; tho wish they had kept 4 pts for a goal.
As a Derry man I'm glad they didn't, our hammerings were bad enough
Yesterday the Antrim midfielder shot outside the arc (a nive bit outsidein fairnes). Keeper misjudged and it bounced over.
Only 1 point given, but fair few thought it was misread ruling and should gave been 2 pointer.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on March 24, 2025, 08:03:08 AMYesterday the Antrim midfielder shot outside the arc (a nive bit outsidein fairnes). Keeper misjudged and it bounced over.
Only 1 point given, but fair few thought it was misread ruling and should gave been 2 pointer.
If there was a touch on it then one point, if no touch a two pointer, though that could have changed with the new new rules rather than the old new rules ;D
No touch. Lad had time and had a pop, keeper was stuck to the line and it bounced inside the 14 and over.
Antrim hit 6 of them with the wind as it was!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2025, 08:41:33 AMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on March 24, 2025, 08:03:08 AMYesterday the Antrim midfielder shot outside the arc (a nive bit outsidein fairnes). Keeper misjudged and it bounced over.
Only 1 point given, but fair few thought it was misread ruling and should gave been 2 pointer.
If there was a touch on it then one point, if no touch a two pointer, though that could have changed with the new new rules rather than the old new rules ;D
You do a game yesterday? how you find it?
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on March 24, 2025, 08:03:08 AMYesterday the Antrim midfielder shot outside the arc (a nive bit outsidein fairnes). Keeper misjudged and it bounced over.
Only 1 point given, but fair few thought it was misread ruling and should gave been 2 pointer.
Same thing happened for Westmeath Vs Roscommon. No touch, ball bounced over the bar - 2 points correctly given!
u14 game at the weekend (in Tyrone). Last weekend the referee told us that everyone had to be outside the D for the kickout and as long as the ball travelled 13m it could be collected inside the D. This weekend, we were told by a different referee that the ball can never be collected inside the D.
Impossible to coach kids when the refs have different views on rules.
IMO, with the exception of solo-and-go and the dissent rules, none of the other rules have brought anything to the game.
I was at the Tyrone v Dublin match, there was as much hand-passing, sideways play around the new arc, defending as there had ever been. There was some high catching (there always was), and some long range scores (there always was) and some goals (there always was). The pitch invasion at the end after the hooter went with the game still on was hilarious, but also shows the confusion.
I don't see the benefit in a set of rules that seem to be changing week on week, with different referee's having different ideas. The core reason for them of encouraging kicking and attacking play and to make the game more watchable hasn't really been evidenced imo, though I'd love to see the statistics.
I wonder will the stats be published or will it be a case of choosing the stats that suit the narrative?
Quote from: westbound on March 24, 2025, 10:10:21 AMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on March 24, 2025, 08:03:08 AMYesterday the Antrim midfielder shot outside the arc (a nive bit outsidein fairnes). Keeper misjudged and it bounced over.
Only 1 point given, but fair few thought it was misread ruling and should gave been 2 pointer.
Same thing happened for Westmeath Vs Roscommon. No touch, ball bounced over the bar - 2 points correctly given!
Correct.
One for Milltown
After Cox foolishly kicked a stupid wide, Westmeath goalie put ball on tee. Hooter went.
Goalie kicked out ball and led to equaliser.
I'd have thought the ball is out of play till it's kicked by the keeper?
After all no one can run in and kick the ball over-the-counter bar off the tee.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on March 24, 2025, 08:54:05 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2025, 08:41:33 AMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on March 24, 2025, 08:03:08 AMYesterday the Antrim midfielder shot outside the arc (a nive bit outsidein fairnes). Keeper misjudged and it bounced over.
Only 1 point given, but fair few thought it was misread ruling and should gave been 2 pointer.
If there was a touch on it then one point, if no touch a two pointer, though that could have changed with the new new rules rather than the old new rules ;D
You do a game yesterday? how you find it?
Fine, I think I might have possibly missed called one 4v3 rule but Its very difficult to count and keep track of the ball and play, so unless its really obvious or I have linesmen I'm not going outta my way, its mostly well marshalled. There was no dissent calls either.. Some minor infractions on the rules but all talked through at the time, its a learning spell for everyone.
In the heat of the game players are still getting used to what you can do to make the most of the rules
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2025, 10:30:05 AMQuote from: westbound on March 24, 2025, 10:10:21 AMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on March 24, 2025, 08:03:08 AMYesterday the Antrim midfielder shot outside the arc (a nive bit outsidein fairnes). Keeper misjudged and it bounced over.
Only 1 point given, but fair few thought it was misread ruling and should gave been 2 pointer.
Same thing happened for Westmeath Vs Roscommon. No touch, ball bounced over the bar - 2 points correctly given!
Correct.
One for Milltown
After Cox foolishly kicked a stupid wide, Westmeath goalie put ball on tee. Hooter went.
Goalie kicked out ball and led to equaliser.
I'd have thought the ball is out of play till it's kicked by the keeper?
After all no one can run in and kick the ball over-the-counter bar off the tee.
This hooter is going to cause a lot of problems. Play has to stop when a team kicks out out over the sideline after the hooter is sounded, could the keeper have kicked the ball straight out over the sideline? Maybe, had a chat about it the other day when the player of the defenders kicked it over the own end line when the hooter went, the ref gave the 45 to the attackers who scored with it! So you have to play it out over the sideline, either the keeper or player can do so
Question. if a team has a player sent off do they still have to keep 3 up?
Quote from: Would ye whist on March 24, 2025, 10:47:01 AMQuestion. if a team has a player sent off do they still have to keep 3 up?
Yes, I think they still have to maintain 4v3 for defenders (that includes keeper) and 3 attackers
If they could cut down on the amount of hand passing by teams if would really help the game.
If my memory is correct. In the Armagh Derry game the hooter went in both half's when the ball was out of play for goal kicks. Neither kick was allowed to be taken.
An acquaintance reckons when the ball was on the tee it's within the field and is therefore considered in play?
Westmeath seemed to get a 2 pointer v Roscommon. Ball bounced in the square and over
I thought it had to go straight over the bar? Or has this been changed? Christ I can't keep up
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 25, 2025, 12:29:23 AMWestmeath seemed to get a 2 pointer v Roscommon. Ball bounced in the square and over
I thought it had to go straight over the bar? Or has this been changed? Christ I can't keep up
That was changed with the last rules I think.
It was the same for the old new rules and stayed the same for the new new rules
Quote from: befair on March 24, 2025, 02:04:00 AMIn general the new rules have been a great success; tho wish they had kept 4 pts for a goal.
I think they have been a complete disaster. There's no tackling any more. Games are boring for large parts and very one sided for long passages of time. There are far fewer lead changes, tactics and some of the skills of the game are being forced out. There also seem to be far fewer fast breaks as teams always have men back.
Quote from: David McKeown on March 25, 2025, 05:27:52 PMQuote from: befair on March 24, 2025, 02:04:00 AMIn general the new rules have been a great success; tho wish they had kept 4 pts for a goal.
I think they have been a complete disaster. There's no tackling any more. Games are boring for large parts and very one sided for long passages of time. There are far fewer lead changes, tactics and some of the skills of the game are being forced out. There also seem to be far fewer fast breaks as teams always have men back.
David no harm to you lad, but it would seem you're not actually watching what's happening. You've just made your mind up for whatever reason and seem unable to look at this objectively.
Everything you described in a negative form above is what was happening the past few years. Every last thing.
Quote from: David McKeown on March 25, 2025, 05:27:52 PMQuote from: befair on March 24, 2025, 02:04:00 AMIn general the new rules have been a great success; tho wish they had kept 4 pts for a goal.
I think they have been a complete disaster. There's no tackling any more. Games are boring for large parts and very one sided for long passages of time. There are far fewer lead changes, tactics and some of the skills of the game are being forced out. There also seem to be far fewer fast breaks as teams always have men back.
You've described pre 2025 football to a T.
You've been around too long for this to be a WUM so I'll break it down one by one for you David:
There's no tackling any more: There was almost zero contact in Gaelic Games for the past 4-5 years, let alone tackling. I watched an AI final as recently as July when there wasn't a single challenge made in the first half. Earlier same season I watched Armagh and Donegal play an Ulster Final where both teams were able to shoot from distance on repeat as there wasn't so much as a tackle in sight.
Games are boring for large parts and very one sided for long passages of time: Gaelic football was on the precipice of dying. From boredom. Now we've just played out a league where in D1 a team finished top with a negative scoring difference, and at one stage on Sunday were being relegated. Similar scenes in D2. We're witnessing more goals than ever. We're witnessing teams coming back from the dead instead of playing out. Most importantly we're witnessing the end of over coaching. Players have to make their own minds up.
There are far fewer lead changes: you'll need stats to back this one up.
tactics: this is a great thing. Tactics are important in sport but excess tactics results in boredom. See Italian football, rugby union.
and some of the skills of the game are being forced out: for the past decade you only needed two skills above all. One being patience in defence. The other being straight line speed on a counter attack. Anything else was a bonus. But breaking ball was a thing of the past. As was long kicking. As was accurate kicking. As was actual goalkeeping. As was commanding the square. As was being a playmaker. As was being a small, industrious corner forward. As was being a big brute full forward. I honestly can't fathom how you've come to this conclusion. You've a taken 3 lefts when you should have taken a right.
There also seem to be far fewer fast breaks as teams always have men back: There's more fast breaks than ever before. Difference is that now, the ball is going the spadework.
New rules are a breath of fresh air. They've saved Gaelic football. Huge thanks to the committee involved. It was in a dire state. Good players are flourishing again. Really looking forward to the championship.
I'm still on the fence, I still see teams moving back to the 40m arc to defend I'm seeing offensive teams play laterally until a gap appears.. managers still trying to work it out.
I haven't noticed a big difference in my distance covered also
Quote from: thewobbler on March 25, 2025, 05:39:33 PMQuote from: David McKeown on March 25, 2025, 05:27:52 PMQuote from: befair on March 24, 2025, 02:04:00 AMIn general the new rules have been a great success; tho wish they had kept 4 pts for a goal.
I think they have been a complete disaster. There's no tackling any more. Games are boring for large parts and very one sided for long passages of time. There are far fewer lead changes, tactics and some of the skills of the game are being forced out. There also seem to be far fewer fast breaks as teams always have men back.
David no harm to you lad, but it would seem you're not actually watching what's happening. You've just made your mind up for whatever reason and seem unable to look at this objectively.
Everything you described in a negative form above is what was happening the past few years. Every last thing.
It certainly wasn't. The stats back it up. Turnovers from tackles are down (although stats in this area are lacking from previous areas). Number of lead changes are down compared to last year.
There's been a focus on the number of high catches being up and scores being up as evidence that football is now somehow better. The other elements that went in to football are ignored. It seems the rules have divided opinion. I know within my own family those of us who attend matches don't like them. The ones who watch the matches on the TV seem to like them.
In the FRC reports there were two interesting statistics. Number of long kickouts and possession won there from was up substantially yet hand passes and kick passes were broadly similar as were the scores to shot ratio. Now if the starting point for gaining possession is considerably advanced and therefore the average distance to be covered is down significantly then you would expect a big drop off in passes (particularly if we believe the myth that these rules have somehow brought kick passing back into vogue) and a big increase in shots (as teams should in theory get into scoring positions quicker) That's not reflected in the stats at all. Broadly similar number of kick outs broadly similar number of shots
As I've said previously those who seem to like the new rules caveat it with at least one rule they don't like. That one rule seems to change person to person though.
I like the idea of the solo and go but I think the 8 yards you can get out of it is too much. The other rules I think the pay off is far too great.
I'm perfectly willing to give the rules more time in the form of the championship but to date I think they've taken away far too much and havent improved the game.
I also have set out that I prefer close tactical battles to all out shoot outs so that obviously factors in to it.
Eoghan Ban Gallagher out of Donegal championship opener with hamstring injury picked up at training, so much for Jim's mythical rules causing hamstring injury theory
The boul Jim has men checking the temperature of hotel rooms in advance of arrival but what's the f**king point of you're gonna flog lads to breaking point
Have a soft spot for Donegal and Jim, I just wish he'd drop the guru act and out himself as a GAA manager plain and simple
David, I am not arguing but where are these stats?
It certainly wasn't. The stats back it up. Turnovers are down, fast breaks are down. Number of lead changes are all down compared to last year
Is a fast break running out of your own 45 and then stopping?
From going to games I am enjoying it and the crowd seem to enjoy more direct football.
One definite thing is that players don't automatically slow down and turn back.
.
I've been to 4 of Down's 7 games.
I'm not sold on the 2 pointer as it just doesn't feel quite right but does bring great entertainment and excitement when it's your own team availing of it.
The tap and go is a brilliant addition. Even coaching u12s it's a case of how have we not thought of this before?
The lack of f**king about when someone concedes a free with the handing the ball back has been very good for the spectacle also.
I've been a regular attender of county matches for 30 years and played club for most of that time too and despite a general gra for the tactical innovation that we have seen more recently, the game needed change.
Last year at a national league game in Newry I nearly nodded off. Not one thing to get excited about in the whole game. No spontaneous fist pumping, memorable moments or passages of play to lift the crowd. Nothing.
The last 2 Down games in Newry against Westmeath and in Clones have brought back the excitement again. Quality footballers showing their skills and getting you on the edge of the seat. Losing yourself in the moment and roaring the team on. The way it should be.
I've a young lad of primary school age who is football mad and I'm much more optimistic about the future of the sport for him than the way it had been shaping up the last 5 years.
These rules aren't perfect, and they will no doubt evolve. The challenges of proper implementation in the club game are still to come. However, they are a great stab at reinventing the game and hats off to the FRC for their work to date. It's night and day from last year.
As part of the experiment, if they were to play the NFL finals with the 2024 rules, it would shine further light on the need for change.
Was at Tyrone Mayo, it was a truly truly awful game. As bad as any game played last year.
There definitely seems to be a tendency for teams to dominate long periods of matches which is a concern. At least 60 or 70% of div 1 games I seen were dominated by a team for long stretches. Dublin/Donegal, Tyrone Armagh, Dublin Kerry, Galway Derry, Tyrone Dublin. I don't buy that games are more changeable than in the past rules (unless by gale force winds). Remember Errigal/Cuala was played under the old rules and witnessed a fairly incredible comeback by Errigal.
It was a worry that a relatively mild breeze in Omagh the last day, on a day that should have been ideal for league football, was worth 10 points at half time to Tyrone. Certainly the wind seems to be a serious serious advantage. As shown when Tyrone played Armagh. Your 2 pointers and 2 point frees are made so much easier whilst a 2 point score into the wind is pretty much nullified.
I'm not sold either way on the rules. Change was needed but I think the changes made are far too drastic. 2-3 simpler changes would have affected as much positive change.
I think teams adapting to what is a huge change to the game is acting as a great leveller, hence the very close Div 1 and 2. When the tactics settle we'll see the true form of the rule changes.
Also banning keepers from getting involved in attacks out of defence is incredibly harsh. A keeper should be allowed to get involved if it's in an attacking move up the pitch. So if he takes a 1-2 bursting forward or a handpass that sends him forward into lots of space it should be allowed. I wouldn't allow teams to recycle the ball back to a keeper but if teams are willing to take the risk and reward of advancing the keeper ahead of the ball it should be punished.
I do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 26, 2025, 07:31:14 AMI do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
[/Quote from: tonto1888 on March 26, 2025, 07:31:14 AMI do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
It has to stay as long as the 2 pointer is there or else it rewards fouling a good 2 point shooter outside the arc.
Tap and go is great.
The 4 up top is good too.
All the giving out over the 50m but players just got in with it and no shite with lads 'falling' on a player after a free or any wrestling going on.
On the fence about 2 pointer in general.
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 26, 2025, 07:31:14 AMI do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
I think two points should stand but only for dissent, not for breaching the halfway line. Tap and go is good, black card for those entering a melee good, redefining the black card to include holding a player up will be difficult when sometimes its multiple players doing that in a player. Who gets the card, that will cause some gurning..
Still too many balls ups at the 4v3 rule at club level, either its not been seen or called incorrectly which drives frustration up for everyone, Club level we don't use the hooter or final play as it doesn't come into play. The timing is still done the 'old' way as is finishing the game
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2025, 09:05:57 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on March 26, 2025, 07:31:14 AMI do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
I think two points should stand but only for dissent, not for breaching the halfway line. Tap and go is good, black card for those entering a melee good, redefining the black card to include holding a player up will be difficult when sometimes its multiple players doing that in a player. Who gets the card, that will cause some gurning..
Still too many balls ups at the 4v3 rule at club level, either its not been seen or called incorrectly which drives frustration up for everyone, Club level we don't use the hooter or final play as it doesn't come into play. The timing is still done the 'old' way as is finishing the game
I do think people are taking the 4 v 3 too literally.
It'll take a few seasons for this to seep through I'd expect, but the rule hasn't been designed to punish minor indiscretions by inactive players. It has been designed to a) stop teams flooding defenders behind the ball, b) provide forward options for kick passing.
I'd suggest if referees only glance behind for a quick headcount when there's been a turnover or a shot, that's all is needed.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 26, 2025, 09:36:24 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2025, 09:05:57 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on March 26, 2025, 07:31:14 AMI do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
I think two points should stand but only for dissent, not for breaching the halfway line. Tap and go is good, black card for those entering a melee good, redefining the black card to include holding a player up will be difficult when sometimes its multiple players doing that in a player. Who gets the card, that will cause some gurning..
Still too many balls ups at the 4v3 rule at club level, either its not been seen or called incorrectly which drives frustration up for everyone, Club level we don't use the hooter or final play as it doesn't come into play. The timing is still done the 'old' way as is finishing the game
I do think people are taking the 4 v 3 too literally.
It'll take a few seasons for this to seep through I'd expect, but the rule hasn't been designed to punish minor indiscretions by inactive players. It has been designed to a) stop teams flooding defenders behind the ball, b) provide forward options for kick passing.
I'd suggest if referees only glance behind for a quick headcount when there's been a turnover or a shot, that's all is needed.
Yeah the theory is good but shouldn't have a game stopped because a fella crosses the line, i think as long as there is only 11 v 12 actually involved in the play it shouldn't matter, bit like soccer with offside and the interfering with play concept. It's a joke a team attacking gets called a free against because one of their players crossed the half way line yet aren't involved in the phase of play.
The solo and go is good but refs too inconsistent with it at the min and players seem to get too far as an advantage.
All rules relating to the 40m arc should go - the two pointer would be relevant against a blanket defence of 15 since it would in hoery mean teams have to push out to stop the threat, as it stands, it encourages play along the 45 to set up a shooter and discourages quick balls into scoring positions be they for points or goals. The enforced long kick out helps pin teams back if they can't get possession meaning a game can get one-sideed (in periods or throughout). And both rules mean that weather conditions play a far bigger part in a match than they should for any sport.
Quote from: GTP on March 26, 2025, 10:40:02 AMAll rules relating to the 40m arc should go - the two pointer would be relevant against a blanket defence of 15 since it would in hoery mean teams have to push out to stop the threat, as it stands, it encourages play along the 45 to set up a shooter and discourages quick balls into scoring positions be they for points or goals. The enforced long kick out helps pin teams back if they can't get possession meaning a game can get one-sideed (in periods or throughout). And both rules mean that weather conditions play a far bigger part in a match than they should for any sport.
Agree, with the 3 up the more space really does away with the need for the 2pt as you say wind will be a disaster. Keep the 3 up, the solo and go and if they must the 1v1 throw in and that's it.
Are there any more proposals for tweaks, or is that it now until the Special Congress?
I'm for abolishing the 2 pointer ever since they dropped the 4 point goal.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 26, 2025, 10:58:13 AMAre there any more proposals for tweaks, or is that it now until the Special Congress?
I'm for abolishing the 2 pointer ever since they dropped the 4 point goal.
Interesting that the 4 pointer was dropped after the inter provincials as would result in hammerings for a few teams, yet a game can get away from another playing against the elements as the kickouts favour the attacking team with the arc and can get hammered by two pointers. Would be in favour of two pointer going also.
The 2 pointer is here to stay. That's one rule they ain't for budging on , unfortunately .
I bloody hate it
Our lads had their first challenge games at 14 & 16s this weekend and the 40m arc caused a lot of problems with kick outs for both teams at both levels. Cuts so much space out of the game - the bigger team has a massive advantage. Not many 2 pointers to worry about at that level.
Most of the other rules were fine though
Agree to removal of arc at both ends. No 2 point scores and more variety of kick out.
Would like to see a competitive game played with the arc removed and everything else staying.
Quote from: The Trap on March 26, 2025, 12:30:11 PMAgree to removal of arc at both ends. No 2 point scores and more variety of kick out.
Would like to see a competitive game played with the arc removed and everything else staying.
Would agree 100%
In tight games the 2 pointer is a bit of extra edge, in uneven games it just helps the pile on.
The kick out in juvenile games (even up
To minor) has been a bit of a challenge and I don't see it encouraging high fielding just a scrum of bodies. Have seen a couple of matches where the keeper struggled to get the ball the distance when kicking into a strong wind.
I'd keep both in adult games but I think the small arc should be used for juvenile.
Quote from: 03,05,08 on March 26, 2025, 09:01:37 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on March 26, 2025, 07:31:14 AMI do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
[/Quote from: tonto1888 on March 26, 2025, 07:31:14 AMI do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
It has to stay as long as the 2 pointer is there or else it rewards fouling a good 2 point shooter outside the arc.
Hmmm. Never thought of that. Still don't agree with being allowed to bring it back beyond the arc for a 2 point attempt
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on March 25, 2025, 09:35:07 PMDavid, I am not arguing but where are these stats?
It certainly wasn't. The stats back it up. Turnovers are down, fast breaks are down. Number of lead changes are all down compared to last year
Is a fast break running out of your own 45 and then stopping?
From going to games I am enjoying it and the crowd seem to enjoy more direct football.
One definite thing is that players don't automatically slow down and turn back.
.
It's the FRC stats that were released after 3 and 6 games and were thereafter discussed on a number of podcasts I'd listen to.
I'm away for a few days but I'll get the links to what I'd listen to when back at my computer.
The 1v1 throw in is going to crack a players skull someday. The half forwards/backs are rushing in to the loose ball and pretty soon a county footballer will get decimated.
The old rules there was at least one of your teammates there to hoover up loose ball. Now there's an incentive to rush in as fast and as heedlessly as possible.
While most of the new rules are seeming to have a positive effect on the game (and I mean most - definitely not all), exactly what everyone thought would happen with them is happening.
Stronger teams are absolutely thumping weaker teams. Look at the games in Ulster U20s tonight. This hasn't been seen so much in the National leagues we're teams are playing opposition of a similar standard, but come the Champiosnhip there will be 40+ point beatings handed out and games will be over inside 10 minutes. Weaker teams don't stand any chance at all against the stronger ones anymore under the new rules, and can't even structure themselves not to take a hiding. If these rules are to persist then the Provincial Championships won't last much longer.
It's common knowledge these rules benefit strong teams. There will be some bad trimmings but as long as the top 4/6 going well, all rosy in the world of the gaa.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 26, 2025, 11:54:22 PMIt's common knowledge these rules benefit strong teams. There will be some bad trimmings but as long as the top 4/6 going well, all rosy in the world of the gaa.
But sure the top 4-6 teams were going well in the old rules... Dublin and Kerry still won the majority of titles the last 20 years the Dubs did 6 in a row!
It's not as if Carlow, Leitrim etc had been winning Provincials on a regular basis.
15 behind the ball was keeping the score down but won't be coming back.
Up to the GAA to structure competitions so that the weakest won't be getting savage hammerings.
Hint ... NFL, Club Championships, Hurling, Camogie, LGFA....
In the U20 game the other night between Cavan and Monaghan there was a strange call after Cavan had breached the 3 up rule.
Monaghan had been attacking and scored a point. The linesman then brought the breach to the referess attention and the point that Monaghan scored was chalked off and they were given a free in front of the goals instead which they tapped over the bar.
In a case like that you would think that they just would have allowed the original point to stand and get on with the game, if it had of been a goal that was scored would it have been chalked off?
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 28, 2025, 08:08:51 AMIn the U20 game the other night between Cavan and Monaghan there was a strange call after Cavan had breached the 3 up rule.
Monaghan had been attacking and scored a point. The linesman then brought the breach to the referess attention and the point that Monaghan scored was chalked off and they were given a free in front of the goals instead which they tapped over the bar.
In a case like that you would think that they just would have allowed the original point to stand and get on with the game, if it had of been a goal that was scored would it have been chalked off?
Common sense isn't always too common. How far over halfway would the player have been?
Quote from: statto on March 28, 2025, 08:23:54 AMQuote from: Cavan19 on March 28, 2025, 08:08:51 AMIn the U20 game the other night between Cavan and Monaghan there was a strange call after Cavan had breached the 3 up rule.
Monaghan had been attacking and scored a point. The linesman then brought the breach to the referess attention and the point that Monaghan scored was chalked off and they were given a free in front of the goals instead which they tapped over the bar.
In a case like that you would think that they just would have allowed the original point to stand and get on with the game, if it had of been a goal that was scored would it have been chalked off?
Common sense isn't always too common. How far over halfway would the player have been?
He would have needed to be over 4 meters past the line. Not sure why the lines man brought it to his attention when all the ref should have done is raised his hand and played an advantage, can you imagine chalking off a goal for them to tap over a 14m free?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2025, 09:05:52 AMQuote from: statto on March 28, 2025, 08:23:54 AMQuote from: Cavan19 on March 28, 2025, 08:08:51 AMIn the U20 game the other night between Cavan and Monaghan there was a strange call after Cavan had breached the 3 up rule.
Monaghan had been attacking and scored a point. The linesman then brought the breach to the referess attention and the point that Monaghan scored was chalked off and they were given a free in front of the goals instead which they tapped over the bar.
In a case like that you would think that they just would have allowed the original point to stand and get on with the game, if it had of been a goal that was scored would it have been chalked off?
Common sense isn't always too common. How far over halfway would the player have been?
He would have needed to be over 4 meters past the line. Not sure why the lines man brought it to his attention when all the ref should have done is raised his hand and played an advantage, can you imagine chalking off a goal for them to tap over a 14m free?
Thought Coldrick made alot of sense on his podcast in relation to he wouldn't be happy if a linesman flagged that a player was just over halfway. If the Cavan player happened to be 5 metres past halfway and having no direct involvement in the play let it go especially if the attacking side get a score. If the goal had of went in and chalked off there may have been a few cards and the ball moved up for 50 metres for dissent!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 26, 2025, 11:54:22 PMIt's common knowledge these rules benefit strong teams. There will be some bad trimmings but as long as the top 4/6 going well, all rosy in the world of the gaa.
That's likely to be borne out in the provincials too, there's good reason to expect some fair hammerings.
On the positive, it will likely ensure that the 2-pointer doesn't survive past this season.
Quotei do like most of the rules changes. 2 points for a free though is one which should go IMO
Quoteit has to stay as long as the 2 pointer is there or else it rewards fouling a good 2 point shooter outside the arc.
I don't agree with this all, the counter argument is that the longer the 2-point free remains, the more we will see players try and draw fouls outside the arc, but in scoring range.
Surely the referee has the tools at his disposal to deal with fouls outside the arc on this 2-point marksman as he's pulling the trigger?
Stats are showing about 48% success for 2pt kicks, so preventing this by giving away a much higher percentage 1pt kick would be unlikely to lead to much success in the long run.
Quote from: onefineday on March 30, 2025, 12:31:08 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on March 26, 2025, 11:54:22 PMIt's common knowledge these rules benefit strong teams. There will be some bad trimmings but as long as the top 4/6 going well, all rosy in the world of the gaa.
That's likely to be borne out in the provincials too, there's good reason to expect some fair hammerings.
On the positive, it will likely ensure that the 2-pointer doesn't survive past this season.
Disagree, there likely won't be hammerings in the semi finals/final when games are between teams of a similar level and it'll be those games fresh in peoples heads when rules are being voted on.
I'd happily scrap the arc for both kickouts and 2 point scores.
Common sense...
Kildare v Antrim one of the Antrim lads stepped over the line.
Linesman saw him and he out the hands up.
A few roars but kildare were inside the 45 on attack, so not interfering with play.
Within the same phase a Kildare defender stepped over shouting instructions.
Not over 4m and no interference. Antrim selector goes nuts at same Linesman and they get the free when Kildare were still in attack.
It was laughable.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on March 30, 2025, 11:23:56 AMCommon sense...
Kildare v Antrim one of the Antrim lads stepped over the line.
Linesman saw him and he out the hands up.
A few roars but kildare were inside the 45 on attack, so not interfering with play.
Within the same phase a Kildare defender stepped over shouting instructions.
Not over 4m and no interference. Antrim selector goes nuts at same Linesman and they get the free when Kildare were still in attack.
It was laughable.
Should def be part of the rule about interfering with play, would make referees job easier as they don't have eyes in the back of their head.
Is that not in yet? Like it was no free for either side.
Can't think of any of the rule changes that haven't improved things
Most surprisng of the 4 finals over the weekend was that the Div 1 teams seemed the teams that didn't utilise as well as the other teams.
GL stats from Michael McMullan.... Rory Beggan has kicked 17 two pointers. That's more than 6 of the division 1 and division 2 teams have.
Tyrone have had to clarify the hooter/final whistle situation in club football with an email to clubs this week.
Basically end of match protocols haven't changed and the referee will deem time and the game ends on his/her whistle. And probably the contentious bit - the ball does not need to be out of play for the final whistle to go.
I think you missed the word NOT, it is the same as before the new rules.
Clock-hooter system will only be used for televised games as some grounds not ready
The new clock and hooter system will only be used in Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup games which are either televised or streamed by GAA+.
An audit conducted by the GAA's Games Administration department and one of the companies which provides the system to the association found that some county grounds are not suited to its use.
"It is unfortunate," Football Review Committee chairperson Jim Gavin said during a media briefing on Wednesday evening.
"Obviously, from an FRC perspective, we'd like to see it everywhere but the harsh reality of it is, some grounds aren't ready, according to the Games Admin. So they've taken a pragmatic view."
The FRC estimates that 25 - 30 grounds will use the system this summer. During the Allianz Football League, it was only used for Division 1 and 2 games.
"It has had the intended positive impact, particularly in enhancing clarity and transparency in timekeeping," the FRC said in a new report.
"It has also helped address concerns regarding time-wasting tactics, especially when a player has been black-carded. While some issues have been identified, the FRC anticipates improvements as the GAA community becomes more familiar with the Public Clock and Hooter timekeeping system. Continued refinement and adaptation will further enhance its effectiveness."
"Don't change the rules", they said on the Board.. "they're going to ruin the game!.. too many changes... scream!"
At last Gaelic football is watchable again... club and county level. Take a bow committe!
Could you imagine McGuinness v Tally a year ago :'(
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 06, 2025, 02:19:28 PM"Don't change the rules", they said on the Board.. "they're going to ruin the game!.. too many changes... scream!"
At last Gaelic football is watchable again... club and county level. Take a bow committe!
Could you imagine McGuinness v Tally a year ago :'(
Jim Gavin on a burner account.. Jesus if you think this is watchable I don't know what to say
Quote from: Mourne Red on April 06, 2025, 02:28:07 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 06, 2025, 02:19:28 PM"Don't change the rules", they said on the Board.. "they're going to ruin the game!.. too many changes... scream!"
At last Gaelic football is watchable again... club and county level. Take a bow committe!
Could you imagine McGuinness v Tally a year ago :'(
Jim Gavin on a burner account.. Jesus if you think this is watchable I don't know what to say
Very watchable.. have u not watched football for the last 10 years... 15 behind the ball.. sideways- sideways-back pass... fuc oh!
Albeit Derry are very poor ..
Not sure why Donegal didn't want to get to the league final.
This game is a slower pace that a national league match.
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2025, 02:32:50 PMNot sure why Donegal didn't want to get to the league final.
This game is a slower pace that a national league match.
Probably expected a bigger challenge from Derry
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 06, 2025, 02:36:53 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 06, 2025, 02:32:50 PMNot sure why Donegal didn't want to get to the league final.
This game is a slower pace that a national league match.
Probably expected a bigger challenge from Derry
But I'm just asking why teams like Donegal, didn't want to get to the league final.
People say it's all about getting rest for the championship as it's a higher level. But from that game today, it's like a league game in intensity.
Pedestrian paced for the most part.
Do you no longer have to call the mark from a kickout? Didn't see a hand up for the one brought forward for Donegal.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 06, 2025, 02:29:52 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on April 06, 2025, 02:28:07 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 06, 2025, 02:19:28 PM"Don't change the rules", they said on the Board.. "they're going to ruin the game!.. too many changes... scream!"
At last Gaelic football is watchable again... club and county level. Take a bow committe!
Could you imagine McGuinness v Tally a year ago :'(
Jim Gavin on a burner account.. Jesus if you think this is watchable I don't know what to say
Very watchable.. have u not watched football for the last 10 years... 15 behind the ball.. sideways- sideways-back pass... fuc oh!
Albeit Derry are very poor ..
It's 12 men behind the ball now with only twelve attacking instead of 15.. same shite different bucket.
2 pointers good addition, this 50m move up however is nonsense
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2025, 02:46:31 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 06, 2025, 02:36:53 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 06, 2025, 02:32:50 PMNot sure why Donegal didn't want to get to the league final.
This game is a slower pace that a national league match.
Probably expected a bigger challenge from Derry
But I'm just asking why teams like Donegal, didn't want to get to the league final.
People say it's all about getting rest for the championship as it's a higher level. But from that game today, it's like a league game in intensity.
Pedestrian paced for the most part.
Agree with this, doesn't feel like an Ulster Championship match
Quote from: GTP on April 06, 2025, 03:09:46 PMDo you no longer have to call the mark from a kickout? Didn't see a hand up for the one brought forward for Donegal.
You only put the hand up for the mark if you want to get the free kick. With the 50m advancement rule now for being impeding within the 4m you pretty much never want to claim the mark and the free kick; just play away and hope the opposition tackle you within 4m!
If you claim the mark the option to move it up 50m is gone.
This change is a bit mad as it is so difficult not to tackle a player when he just plays on thru a mark.
Quote from: Mourne Red on April 06, 2025, 03:10:23 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 06, 2025, 02:29:52 PMQuote from: Mourne Red on April 06, 2025, 02:28:07 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 06, 2025, 02:19:28 PM"Don't change the rules", they said on the Board.. "they're going to ruin the game!.. too many changes... scream!"
At last Gaelic football is watchable again... club and county level. Take a bow committe!
Could you imagine McGuinness v Tally a year ago :'(
Jim Gavin on a burner account.. Jesus if you think this is watchable I don't know what to say
Very watchable.. have u not watched football for the last 10 years... 15 behind the ball.. sideways- sideways-back pass... fuc oh!
Albeit Derry are very poor ..
It's 12 men behind the ball now with only twelve attacking instead of 15.. same shite different bucket.
2 pointers good addition, this 50m move up however is nonsense
No wonder Down football in the state it's in if that's the local analysis :D :)
On Roger's tackle after the Donegal fella took the mark.
He clearly got the ball. Is this still not allowed?
Quote from: theticklemister on April 06, 2025, 06:04:25 PMOn Roger's tackle after the Donegal fella took the mark.
He clearly got the ball. Is this still not allowed?
The ref decided the tackle was within 4m of the mark. Can't tackle within 4m.
Whether it was within 4m or not may be a different question, but that's what the ref decided.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 06, 2025, 06:17:21 PMQuote from: theticklemister on April 06, 2025, 06:04:25 PMOn Roger's tackle after the Donegal fella took the mark.
He clearly got the ball. Is this still not allowed?
The ref decided the tackle was within 4m of the mark. Can't tackle within 4m.
Whether it was within 4m or not may be a different question, but that's what the ref decided.
Yeah I understand the 4m thing; but if a player bounces or solos, can he still not be disposed ?
Quote from: theticklemister on April 06, 2025, 06:22:38 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on April 06, 2025, 06:17:21 PMQuote from: theticklemister on April 06, 2025, 06:04:25 PMOn Roger's tackle after the Donegal fella took the mark.
He clearly got the ball. Is this still not allowed?
The ref decided the tackle was within 4m of the mark. Can't tackle within 4m.
Whether it was within 4m or not may be a different question, but that's what the ref decided.
understand the 4m thing; but if a player bounces or solos, can he still not be disposed ?
Not until he takes his second solo or bounce isn't it?
Quote from: theticklemister on April 06, 2025, 06:22:38 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on April 06, 2025, 06:17:21 PMQuote from: theticklemister on April 06, 2025, 06:04:25 PMOn Roger's tackle after the Donegal fella took the mark.
He clearly got the ball. Is this still not allowed?
The ref decided the tackle was within 4m of the mark. Can't tackle within 4m.
Whether it was within 4m or not may be a different question, but that's what the ref decided.
Yeah I understand the 4m thing; but if a player bounces or solos, can he still not be disposed ?
Not until he has moved 4m
It's simple enough, takes the mark, ref blows regardless he puts the hand up, that was always the case.. if he puts his hand up he has to take the mark, but if he doesn't he's still afforded ( as was the case in old rules) 4 meters before being challenged, in old rules it was an advancement of 13 meters now 50, there's no solo and go with that mark though, which at the start players were confused
It's simple enough on paper but it must be very difficult from the player's perspective. If your opponent wins a ball and plays on, holding yourself back from tackling him must be hard. Judging if he has gone 4m also.
It's a poor rule.
The new rules say that a solo and go can be taken within 4 metres of where it was awarded.
The player then can't be tackled within another 4 metres of that spot.
So a player can't be tackled within 8 metres of where they were when the mark is awarded.
Basic rule of thumb for players is if the whistle goes for a mark and play goes on, give the opposition 10 metres.
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 06, 2025, 09:07:13 PMThe new rules say that a solo and go can be taken within 4 metres of where it was awarded.
The player then can't be tackled within another 4 metres of that spot.
So a player can't be tackled within 8 metres of where they were when the mark is awarded.
Basic rule of thumb for players is if the whistle goes for a mark and play goes on, give the opposition 10 metres.
A mark is not the same as a solo and go. It is 4m from the mark. Your 8m is correct from a free kick, but not a mark.
The 2nd Rodgers free advance.
McHugh is fouled. He reaches out and pushes Doherty as he walks past him. Rodgers drags him by the jersey.
Fair?
Quote2.5 (a) A free kick, other than a penalty kick or a 45m free kick as prescribed in Rule 2.8, or a free kick awarded for a Mark, may be taken from the hands or from the ground or by means of a Solo and Go.
Quote2.5 (c) Where a Solo and Go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the foul has occurred and must be taken immediately after the free has been awarded and without undue delay unless the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given to an injured player or to deal with a disciplinary issue.
QuoteA player taking a Solo and Go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the Solo and Go was taken.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 06, 2025, 09:38:09 PMQuote from: twohands!!! on April 06, 2025, 09:07:13 PMThe new rules say that a solo and go can be taken within 4 metres of where it was awarded.
The player then can't be tackled within another 4 metres of that spot.
So a player can't be tackled within 8 metres of where they were when the mark is awarded.
Basic rule of thumb for players is if the whistle goes for a mark and play goes on, give the opposition 10 metres.
A mark is not the same as a solo and go. It is 4m from the mark. Your 8m is correct from a free kick, but not a mark.
[/quote
It's only 8 meters if they take 4 steps (no bounce) and solo, if they solo straight away, then they only have 4 meters
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 06, 2025, 09:48:42 PMQuote2.5 (a) A free kick, other than a penalty kick or a 45m free kick as prescribed in Rule 2.8, or a free kick awarded for a Mark, may be taken from the hands or from the ground or by means of a Solo and Go.
Quote2.5 (c) Where a Solo and Go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the foul has occurred and must be taken immediately after the free has been awarded and without undue delay unless the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given to an injured player or to deal with a disciplinary issue.
QuoteA player taking a Solo and Go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the Solo and Go was taken.
So all this means that if a player makes a mark it is effectively a solo and go. OK?
So if a midfielder catches a mark and bounces the ball he can be tackled immediately after that.
But if he solos it then he gets another 4 metres after his solo before he can be tackled.
And if he is tackled before he moves the 4 metres he gets it advanced 50m because it is deemed that he was solo and going but he was tackled before he executed the solo.
Genuine question: I wonder how many players know that bouncing after a mark is treated differently to soloing after a mark?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 06, 2025, 10:44:49 PMQuote from: twohands!!! on April 06, 2025, 09:48:42 PMQuote2.5 (a) A free kick, other than a penalty kick or a 45m free kick as prescribed in Rule 2.8, or a free kick awarded for a Mark, may be taken from the hands or from the ground or by means of a Solo and Go.
Quote2.5 (c) Where a Solo and Go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the foul has occurred and must be taken immediately after the free has been awarded and without undue delay unless the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given to an injured player or to deal with a disciplinary issue.
QuoteA player taking a Solo and Go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the Solo and Go was taken.
So all this means that if a player makes a mark it is effectively a solo and go. OK?
So if a midfielder catches a mark and bounces the ball he can be tackled immediately after that.
But if he solos it then he gets another 4 metres after his solo before he can be tackled.
And if he is tackled before he moves the 4 metres he gets it advanced 50m because it is deemed that he was solo and going but he was tackled before he executed the solo.
Genuine question: I wonder how many players know that bouncing after a mark is treated differently to soloing after a mark?
Genuine Answer: None. Not one. Because you've misinterpreted the rule. There is no solo & go from a mark.
This is what deal with on a daily basis...
Was at a game today fella scuffed a free with the wind but it bounced over the bar without a touch. 2pts or I heard ones complaining g that a bounce is 1?
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on April 07, 2025, 12:22:38 AMWas at a game today fella scuffed a free with the wind but it bounced over the bar without a touch. 2pts or I heard ones complaining g that a bounce is 1?
2
Quote from: JoG2 on April 07, 2025, 12:32:43 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on April 07, 2025, 12:22:38 AMWas at a game today fella scuffed a free with the wind but it bounced over the bar without a touch. 2pts or I heard ones complaining g that a bounce is 1?
2
Unless touched by another person's is worth 1
MR2 I am sure you are correct in practice when you wrote "It's only 8 meters if they take 4 steps (no bounce) and solo", but the part of the rule stating the mark "must be taken immediately after the free has been awarded and without undue delay", should rule out anyone taking steps then a solo and go. The steps should be seen as an undue delay and or not immediately taking the solo and go.
I'm pretty convinced I won't understand what is happening on a football field again.
Houl on - a player catches the ball from the kickout, and if he plays on, nobody can tackle him for four seconds?
Let's just look at the Mark rule from the keepers kick out..
Player collects ball cleanly past the 45, ref automatically blows whistle, the player can put hand up as normal and claim a mark, from that point he must take it as a mark, which is a free as such, or he can continue in play and is afforded 4 steps before he can be challenged, that hasn't changed from his it's introduction.
Here's what's been added or changed, if challenged within the 4 steps it's then moved 50 meters, that takes it to the 20m line at least, he can chose to shoot from the 40 arc and get 2 points or shoot from the 20 and get one, as with the mark he's claimed it but I'm in the dark as to whether if challenged he then can give a team mate the opportunity to shoot or does he have to take it, still learning lol..
Another thing has changed also is that if a mark is claimed and the resulting kick is caught by an attacker inside the 20m line then he also gets a mark, whereas before there was no double mark, now there is.
There is no solo and go in any mark, he doesn't get "8 meters" that is only when a free is given he takes 4 steps, solo's and from that solo he has his extra 4 steps.. this can only happen as cleanly as that if, the player starts his solo from the spot of free, should he be beyond that put he must come back for normal free
Clear as mud!
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 07, 2025, 07:00:12 PMHoul on - a player catches the ball from the kickout, and if he plays on, nobody can tackle him for four seconds?
Was always the case
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2025, 07:02:04 PMLet's just look at the Mark rule from the keepers kick out..
Player collects ball cleanly past the 45, ref automatically blows whistle, the player can put hand up as normal and claim a mark, from that point he must take it as a mark, which is a free as such, or he can continue in play and is afforded 4 steps before he can be challenged, that hasn't changed from his it's introduction.
Here's what's been added or changed, if challenged within the 4 steps it's then moved 50 meters, that takes it to the 20m line at least, he can chose to shoot from the 40 arc and get 2 points or shoot from the 20 and get one, as with the mark he's claimed it but I'm in the dark as to whether if challenged he then can give a team mate the opportunity to shoot or does he have to take it, still learning lol..
Another thing has changed also is that if a mark is claimed and the resulting kick is caught by an attacker inside the 20m line then he also gets a mark, whereas before there was no double mark, now there is.
There is no solo and go in any mark, he doesn't get "8 meters" that is only when a free is given he takes 4 steps, solo's and from that solo he has his extra 4 steps.. this can only happen as cleanly as that if, the player starts his solo from the spot of free, should he be beyond that put he must come back for normal free
Clear as mud!
The original rule was that when a mark was moved forward then anyone could take it (it has now become a regular free rather than the mark.) I haven't heard this has changed nor would it make any sense to place such a restriction on a team who were just impeded. No idea if this is stated clearly in old or new rules, but that's how it was played previously and I have seen it played that way under the new rules also (i.e. Thompson got a mark in first half and Rogers tackled before the 4 steps and Murphy pointed the subsequent free.)
It didn't help in commentary that Niblock called that scenario incorrectly. He referred to Rogers tackling after a solo and go which is possibly where a lot of this confusion may have arisen now I think of it! FRC should have given commentary teams a crash course, it would help the audience and certainly the more casual observers who are only seeing this in big games on TV.
Yeah it's what I've allowed but was questioned on it the other day and I was, hmmm I think it's now a free so allowed free taker to take it. Few other ones which are possibly less beneficial, if a player collects the ball and crosses the halfway line, it's a free from the halfway line, if a players is over 4 meters but not interfering is a free in front of goal?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2025, 08:33:17 PMYeah it's what I've allowed but was questioned on it the other day and I was, hmmm I think it's now a free so allowed free taker to take it. Few other ones which are possibly less beneficial, if a player collects the ball and crosses the halfway line, it's a free from the halfway line, if a players is over 4 meters but not interfering is a free in front of goal?
Yeah that's my interpretation also. I think both are sensible amendments to the original rule. The 4m gives a player a chance to rectify his mistake and in all honesty if he is anywhere near 4m and gets back asap then I'm not sure it'll be picked up that often ... it just gives refs and players a small bit more leeway.
He has a point.
https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/i-think-its-absolutely-crazy-ex-monaghan-ace-conor-mcmanus-slams-new-fielding-directive-from-kickouts-HGDQSR63JNHENLYFEBRCQPLZVI/
Quote from: BigGreenField on April 10, 2025, 09:10:36 AMHe has a point.
https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/i-think-its-absolutely-crazy-ex-monaghan-ace-conor-mcmanus-slams-new-fielding-directive-from-kickouts-HGDQSR63JNHENLYFEBRCQPLZVI/
The rule (long kickout which I'd do away with) will be grand until a Dublin or Kerry lose a quarter or semi final or even final from a winning position because they unluckily lost a few long kickouts at the end of the game.... Then they'll be an outcry
Quote from: JoG2 on April 10, 2025, 09:56:48 AMQuote from: BigGreenField on April 10, 2025, 09:10:36 AMHe has a point.
https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/i-think-its-absolutely-crazy-ex-monaghan-ace-conor-mcmanus-slams-new-fielding-directive-from-kickouts-HGDQSR63JNHENLYFEBRCQPLZVI/
The rule (long kickout which I'd do away with) will be grand until a Dublin or Kerry lose a quarter or semi final or even final from a winning position because they unluckily lost a few long kickouts at the end of the game.... Then they'll be an outcry
Sure half the reason for the new rules were that it wasn't fair for teams to make Clifford track back and mark his man :D.
One day one of ye bucks will say something positive.....
I was wrong on the solo-and-go being an option as part of the mark.
The play-on option from a Kick Out mark is not the same thing as the Solo and Go as per the rules quoted below.
The fact that there are 3 different rules in relation to when a defender can tackle a player who plays on is far from ideal.
My reading of the current rules is as follows
Advanced Mark - player can be tackled immediately
Kick Out Mark - tackled after 4 metres
Solo and Go - the fouled player is allow start the Solo and Go 4 metres forward from where the foul occurred. Has to take a Toe-Tap to start the Solo and Go and then is allowed 4 more metres before they can be tackled]
I can understand why the rules on tackling for the advanced mark are different (not allowing a defender to immediately tackle that close to goal would have given forwards way too much advantage) but you would think it would make sense to have the same rules for tackling for the solo and go from a free and the the play-on from a Kick Out mark to minimise the confusion/make things easier for everyone.
Quote2.12 Mark
The referee shall award a Mark, in either of the following circumstances:
(i) When the player catches the ball cleanly from a kick-out, without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the kick-out point (a Kick Out Mark).
or
(ii) When a player catches the ball cleanly on or inside the 20m line from a kick in play or from a kick-out mark, delivered by an attacking player on or beyond the opposing team's 45m line, and without it touching the ground (an Advanced Mark).
The following procedures shall apply:
(a) Free Kick
The player shall signify to the Referee if the player is availing of the free kick by immediately raising an arm upright and that player then taking the kick from the hands. The free kick shall be taken from the point where the Mark is awarded except in the case of a Mark awarded to an attacking team inside a 13m line when the free shall be taken from the point on the 13m line directly in line with where the Mark is awarded.
Once the player indicates the player is taking the 'Mark', the Referee shall allow up to fifteen
seconds for the player to take the kick. If the player delays longer than fifteen seconds, the Referee shall cancel the 'Mark' and throw in the ball between a player from each side.
Once the player indicates they are taking the 'Mark, the opposing players must retreat 13m to 50 allow the player space to take the kick. If an opposing player deliberately blocks or attempts to block the kick within 13m, or if an opposing player impedes the player while the player is taking the kick, the Referee shall penalise the opposing team by bringing the ball forward 50m, up to opponents' 13m line.
If the Referee determines that the player who makes the Mark has been injured in the process and is unable to take the kick, the Referee shall direct the player's nearest team-mate to take the kick, but this may only be allowed in exceptional circumstances.
A score may be made from a free awarded for a Mark.
(b) Play on immediately - Kick Out Mark
(i) A player who makes a Kick Out Mark may play on immediately and, in this circumstance, the player may not be challenged within four metres of the position from where the Kick Out Mark is made.
(ii) If the Player is illegally challenged, within four metres of the position from where the Kick Out Mark is
made, a free kick shall be awarded 50m more advantageous than the place of the original mark – up to
opponent's 13m line. The player taking the free may choose to take the free kick from outside the 40m arc
though the application of this Rule would otherwise result in a free kick from inside the 40m arc.
(c) Play on immediately - Advanced Mark
A player who makes an Advanced Mark may play on immediately. The Referee may allow the play to continue if the Referee considers that this presents the potential of an advantage to the team of the player awarded the Mark. A player who is permitted to play on may be immediately challenged for the ball.
The Referee shall signal that the Mark has been awarded and that advantage is being allowed to accrue by raising an arm upright and shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining that arm in the upright position until it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued.
An advantage has accrued if a point or a goal is scored.
If no advantage has accrued to the team of the player awarded the mark, the referee will indicate that by saying 'no advantage gained' and will take the ball back to the point of the Mark.
If a player from the team of the player awarded the Mark commits a technical foul before they have accrued an advantage, the referee will stop play and allow the Mark to be taken from its original position.
If a player from either team commits an aggressive foul before advantage has accrued, the referee will apply the penalty for that subsequent aggressive foul.
Advantage shall not be applied if the referee suspects that a player is seriously injured. The
referee shall apply all other relevant disciplinary action even when advantage is being allowed.
Quote2.5 (a) A free kick, other than a penalty kick or a 45m free kick as prescribed in Rule 2.8, or a free kick awarded for a Mark, may be taken from the hands or from the ground or by means of a Solo and Go.
(b) The ball shall be stationary when a free kick is taken from the ground.
(c) Where a Solo and Go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the foul has occurred and must be taken immediately after the free has been awarded and without undue delay unless
the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given to an injured player
or to deal with a disciplinary issue. The ball must not travel backwards. A player taking a Solo and Go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the Solo and Go was taken. A Solo and Go may not be
taken within the opposition 20m line. Where a Solo and Go is not taken immediately,the free must be taken
from the hands or from the ground, at the point where the foul occurred.
Quote21. SOLO AND GO To take a free kick, immediately, by executing a Toe-Tap and playing on. (Football only)
Quote25. TOE-TAP To release the ball from the hand(s) to the foot and kick it back into the hand(s)
Also while pondering all this I think I spotted a bit of a loop-hole in how the rule in relation to the Kick Out Mark is written. If a player makes a Kick Out Mark and takes the play on option but doesn't move 4 metres from the spot, I don't think the other team can legally tackle them until they move outside that spot. There's no rule/prohibition on them standing on that spot top-tapping the ball to themselves constantly. If the opposing team try to make a tackle (because this would breach the 4m safe zone) it would be the 50m brought forward free? Does this seem "legit" as in legal according to the rules or an I suffering from heat stroke??
I thought for the solo and go, you don't have to take the solo straight away, you can 'go and solo', (as well as 'solo and go'). Definitely seen some refs implement that.
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 10, 2025, 12:03:52 PMI was wrong on the solo-and-go being an option as part of the mark.
The play-on option from a Kick Out mark is not the same thing as the Solo and Go as per the rules quoted below.
The fact that there are 3 different rules in relation to when a defender can tackle a player who plays on is far from ideal.
My reading of the current rules is as follows
Advanced Mark - player can be tackled immediately
Kick Out Mark - tackled after 4 metres
Solo and Go - the fouled player is allow start the Solo and Go 4 metres forward from where the foul occurred. Has to take a Toe-Tap to start the Solo and Go and then is allowed 4 more metres before they can be tackled]
I can understand why the rules on tackling for the advanced mark are different (not allowing a defender to immediately tackle that close to goal would have given forwards way too much advantage) but you would think it would make sense to have the same rules for tackling for the solo and go from a free and the the play-on from a Kick Out mark to minimise the confusion/make things easier for everyone.
Quote2.12 Mark
The referee shall award a Mark, in either of the following circumstances:
(i) When the player catches the ball cleanly from a kick-out, without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the kick-out point (a Kick Out Mark).
or
(ii) When a player catches the ball cleanly on or inside the 20m line from a kick in play or from a kick-out mark, delivered by an attacking player on or beyond the opposing team's 45m line, and without it touching the ground (an Advanced Mark).
The following procedures shall apply:
(a) Free Kick
The player shall signify to the Referee if the player is availing of the free kick by immediately raising an arm upright and that player then taking the kick from the hands. The free kick shall be taken from the point where the Mark is awarded except in the case of a Mark awarded to an attacking team inside a 13m line when the free shall be taken from the point on the 13m line directly in line with where the Mark is awarded.
Once the player indicates the player is taking the 'Mark', the Referee shall allow up to fifteen
seconds for the player to take the kick. If the player delays longer than fifteen seconds, the Referee shall cancel the 'Mark' and throw in the ball between a player from each side.
Once the player indicates they are taking the 'Mark, the opposing players must retreat 13m to 50 allow the player space to take the kick. If an opposing player deliberately blocks or attempts to block the kick within 13m, or if an opposing player impedes the player while the player is taking the kick, the Referee shall penalise the opposing team by bringing the ball forward 50m, up to opponents' 13m line.
If the Referee determines that the player who makes the Mark has been injured in the process and is unable to take the kick, the Referee shall direct the player's nearest team-mate to take the kick, but this may only be allowed in exceptional circumstances.
A score may be made from a free awarded for a Mark.
(b) Play on immediately - Kick Out Mark
(i) A player who makes a Kick Out Mark may play on immediately and, in this circumstance, the player may not be challenged within four metres of the position from where the Kick Out Mark is made.
(ii) If the Player is illegally challenged, within four metres of the position from where the Kick Out Mark is
made, a free kick shall be awarded 50m more advantageous than the place of the original mark – up to
opponent's 13m line. The player taking the free may choose to take the free kick from outside the 40m arc
though the application of this Rule would otherwise result in a free kick from inside the 40m arc.
(c) Play on immediately - Advanced Mark
A player who makes an Advanced Mark may play on immediately. The Referee may allow the play to continue if the Referee considers that this presents the potential of an advantage to the team of the player awarded the Mark. A player who is permitted to play on may be immediately challenged for the ball.
The Referee shall signal that the Mark has been awarded and that advantage is being allowed to accrue by raising an arm upright and shall allow the advantage to run by maintaining that arm in the upright position until it becomes clear that no advantage has accrued.
An advantage has accrued if a point or a goal is scored.
If no advantage has accrued to the team of the player awarded the mark, the referee will indicate that by saying 'no advantage gained' and will take the ball back to the point of the Mark.
If a player from the team of the player awarded the Mark commits a technical foul before they have accrued an advantage, the referee will stop play and allow the Mark to be taken from its original position.
If a player from either team commits an aggressive foul before advantage has accrued, the referee will apply the penalty for that subsequent aggressive foul.
Advantage shall not be applied if the referee suspects that a player is seriously injured. The
referee shall apply all other relevant disciplinary action even when advantage is being allowed.
Quote2.5 (a) A free kick, other than a penalty kick or a 45m free kick as prescribed in Rule 2.8, or a free kick awarded for a Mark, may be taken from the hands or from the ground or by means of a Solo and Go.
(b) The ball shall be stationary when a free kick is taken from the ground.
(c) Where a Solo and Go is availed of, it must be taken from a position within four metres of where the foul has occurred and must be taken immediately after the free has been awarded and without undue delay unless
the referee has stopped play for any purpose such as to allow for attention to be given to an injured player
or to deal with a disciplinary issue. The ball must not travel backwards. A player taking a Solo and Go may not be challenged within four metres of the position where the Solo and Go was taken. A Solo and Go may not be
taken within the opposition 20m line. Where a Solo and Go is not taken immediately,the free must be taken
from the hands or from the ground, at the point where the foul occurred.
Quote21. SOLO AND GO To take a free kick, immediately, by executing a Toe-Tap and playing on. (Football only)
Quote25. TOE-TAP To release the ball from the hand(s) to the foot and kick it back into the hand(s)
Also while pondering all this I think I spotted a bit of a loop-hole in how the rule in relation to the Kick Out Mark is written. If a player makes a Kick Out Mark and takes the play on option but doesn't move 4 metres from the spot, I don't think the other team can legally tackle them until they move outside that spot. There's no rule/prohibition on them standing on that spot top-tapping the ball to themselves constantly. If the opposing team try to make a tackle (because this would breach the 4m safe zone) it would be the 50m brought forward free? Does this seem "legit" as in legal according to the rules or an I suffering from heat stroke??
So the kick out Mark now there is no need to raise the hand, the ref always blew for it, indicating that a mark has taken place, the player can op to take the mark or move as normal. 4 steps or meters rule beforE being tackled is in as it was always but being impeded before he's taken the full distance will result in a 50 meter (rather than the 13m) move of the ball, but should he stand still he is only allowed the time it takes to move 4 meters, if he goes over that time he'll be blown for overcarrying, the only time he can stand still is if he takes the mark and he'll have the time the ref allows to take the MARK
Listening to Ethan Rafferty on the smaller fish podcast. He was saying the time for a goal kick is now down to the referees discretion. I don't like that. Will be very inconsistent
Quote from: blanketattack on April 10, 2025, 01:15:48 PMI thought for the solo and go, you don't have to take the solo straight away, you can 'go and solo', (as well as 'solo and go'). Definitely seen some refs implement that.
I will go back to a previous point I am unsure on. The solo and go by rule quoted earlier should be must be taken immediately after the free has been awarded and without undue delay. This should mean a go and solo is not permitted as it is neither immediate nor without delay. Don't know why both terms are needed in the rule.
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 10, 2025, 05:17:05 PMListening to Ethan Rafferty on the smaller fish podcast. He was saying the time for a goal kick is now down to the referees discretion. I don't like that. Will be very inconsistent
Yeah, they monitored a load of games and the average kick out time was 21 seconds ... We still know that the keeper is taking the piss and will give in a close in free, if a keeper wants to play that game of poker, well, as Trump says, he aint got the cards, I do lol
I mentioned this before but Ethan Rafferty highlighted it in the game yesterday.
It shouldn't be the case that slabbering at the ref out the field carries the severe punishment of a 50m advanced free while slabbering at the ref after the awarding of a penalty (or 13m free) carries no punishment at all. They need a deterrent for that.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 13, 2025, 07:05:08 AMI mentioned this before but Ethan Rafferty highlighted it in the game yesterday.
It shouldn't be the case that slabbering at the ref out the field carries the severe punishment of a 50m advanced free while slabbering at the ref after the awarding of a penalty (or 13m free) carries no punishment at all. They need a deterrent for that.
Maybe a black card for some of the 'slabberers' might cut that out?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 13, 2025, 07:05:08 AMI mentioned this before but Ethan Rafferty highlighted it in the game yesterday.
It shouldn't be the case that slabbering at the ref out the field carries the severe punishment of a 50m advanced free while slabbering at the ref after the awarding of a penalty (or 13m free) carries no punishment at all. They need a deterrent for that.
There is a deterrent for it, Cassidy didn't apply it, if a free is given or in this case the penalty after it's given, if there is further dissent then the game will restart with a free in, it was brought in for that exact reason..
How does that work on a saved penalty where the ball doesn't go dead?
No surprise that refs stop applying these rules. Sure the black card was there as a deterrent and they refused to use it.
If theres enough slabbering going on that its worth talking about the ref should be dishing out black cards, maybe a quick warning first. If he doesnt then its on the ref.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 13, 2025, 08:26:15 AMHow does that work on a saved penalty where the ball doesn't go dead?
No surprise that refs stop applying these rules. Sure the black card was there as a deterrent and they refused to use it.
So when it goes dead, you apply it.
;D
Fcukin hell.
MR2 might have an explanation for this one?
During the Antrim v Armagh game Jarly Og Burns was tackle around the halfway line just after he played the ball in the first half.
The ref allowed play to continue and didn't signal he was playing advantage. Armagh continued to attack and Soupy Campbell was fouled with a clear push in the back around the 21m line.
The ref then went back and booked the Antrim player for the earlier tackle and Burns, and gave Armagh a free from the spot of that foul.
Given that play had continued why didn't Armagh have the free from where the second clear foul took place? This would've given them a tap over free rather than a feee from the middle of the pitch?
I was watching the match in a bar overseas with no commentary so I'm not sure if this was explained at the time on air.
So I've mentioned this already and in fairness to commentators they also said there was no hand raise for the advantage, he then blew.. but at the time I don't think he blew for the push in the back... I definitely think his linesman notified him for the tackle after the ball was played so he's decided to bring it back to that one.. was he correct? Technically no but correct in the end
Is football actually better after all this? No defending. Huge scores. Big deficits. Very few games going down to the wire. I'm not convinced at all.
Very few games come down to the wire at this time of year anyway but Kildare Westmeath, to a lesser extent Meath Offaly and a few others have been tight enough which is probably as good we we've ever got. The big tv games have not really been tight mind you.
There will be much tighter games coming soon. There will also be controversy with two pointers / reffing decisions for dissent etc aplenty.
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on April 14, 2025, 02:41:55 PMIs football actually better after all this? No defending. Huge scores. Big deficits. Very few games going down to the wire. I'm not convinced at all.
The reason that most games aren't going down to the wire at the moment is a by-product of the rubbish provincial championships where you have teams of wildly differing levels playing each other.
In the league there were a whole rake of tight competitive games even as sides were adjusting to the rules because you had teams of similar ability playing each other.
Once the All Ireland Series and the Tailteann Cup starts and the teams are of a smilar level I would expect the games to become much closer.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2025, 02:44:57 PMThere will be much tighter games coming soon. There will also be controversy with two pointers / reffing decisions for dissent etc aplenty.
I don't think there will be that much controversy with two pointers / reffing decisions for dissent etc. when the games get tighter.
Pretty much close to 100% of all of the decisions around this rules I've seen the refs have has been overwhelmingly correct.
Supporters need to stop bitching and moaning about the refs implementing the rules as written and instead start to criticise the utter rank idiocy of the players who give these absolute gifts to the opposition by acting like absolute toddlers on the pitch. Anyone who can't control themselves well enough to not be committing these offences really shouldn't be on a football pitch in the first place. When you see literal school-children following these rules with little to no bother it really exposes any so called adults who break them.
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 14, 2025, 03:29:19 PMIn the league there were a whole rake of tight competitive games even as sides were adjusting to the rules because you had teams of similar ability playing each other.
Once the All Ireland Series and the Tailteann Cup starts and the teams are of a smilar level I would expect the games to become much closer.
Last year Cavan and Tyrone went to extra time. Meath v Offaly was a contest of who can score the most two pointers with the wind.
On two hands point about Players doing stupid things....
Ref gave a free out for a foul on a Cavan lad. The Tyrone buck instead of walking away decided to interfere with the Cavan man again so Ref brought up the ball.
Totally thick!
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 14, 2025, 03:34:52 PMQuote from: twohands!!! on April 14, 2025, 03:29:19 PMIn the league there were a whole rake of tight competitive games even as sides were adjusting to the rules because you had teams of similar ability playing each other.
Once the All Ireland Series and the Tailteann Cup starts and the teams are of a smilar level I would expect the games to become much closer.
Last year Cavan and Tyrone went to extra time. Meath v Offaly was a contest of who can score the most two pointers with the wind.
True dat although Cavan were getting well beaten last year and when Hampsey got black card they raked up a big score during that 10 mins.. maybe 2-2. Yesterday they brought nothing compared to Breffini Park last year...
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on April 14, 2025, 02:41:55 PMIs football actually better after all this? No defending. Huge scores. Big deficits. Very few games going down to the wire. I'm not convinced at all.
I agree. It's been a tough watch so far. Tap and go was the only one we needed and possibly the 3 men up if they were adamant that they wanted more space in the forward line. The 2 pointer in particular is a blight on the game.
Quote from: ranch on April 15, 2025, 08:52:30 AMQuote from: SpeculativeEffort on April 14, 2025, 02:41:55 PMIs football actually better after all this? No defending. Huge scores. Big deficits. Very few games going down to the wire. I'm not convinced at all.
I agree. It's been a tough watch so far. Tap and go was the only one we needed and possibly the 3 men up if they were adamant that they wanted more space in the forward line. The 2 pointer in particular is a blight on the game.
Yeah those 2 would have been plenty.
Yes indeed, no close contests, cause the last decade has seen numerous brilliant close games in the opening rounds of the provincial championships ::)
Anything is better than the way the game was the past few years. And shock horror, elite intercounty level players, stronger and faster and more skilled than ever, can rack up large scores when given the bit of time and space that the new rules have allowed teams to create.
The new rules are fine, two pointers and all.
I watched the 92 Ulster Final last week after I renewed GAA Go (or plus or whatever it is). The amount of relatively aimless long kicking down the field was a bit shocking to see after all these years. And that is a game I remember fondly as a Donegal man and one which was regarded as fairly high quality for its time.
I haven't seen the renowned Derry-Down game from back then, but I must give it a watch to see how it looks to the modern eye.
Quote from: Louther on April 15, 2025, 10:57:29 AMYes indeed, no close contests, cause the last decade has seen numerous brilliant close games in the opening rounds of the provincial championships ::)
Scores are of course higher as expected, but games to this point in the championship have not been.
Again, not unexpected, this next two weekends should see a number of competitive games and after them we'll be in a much better place to form our opinions.
Fwiw I think we've went to far, change was definitely needed, but our game is becoming a series of possessions which end in shots. Tackling and turnovers are declining, coaches appears to have quickly realized that 2pts are the way forward and the goal is an afterthought.
Anyway, we'll know better in a fortnight, but if we could do one thing now that might help the championship in front of us, I'm torn between the abolition of the 2pt free and the long kickout requirement.
How many goals were there last week for such a open game with 3 always up front.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 16, 2025, 01:09:08 AMHow many goals were there last week for such a open game with 3 always up front.
why go for goal and take it in where there is more traffic when you can take a nice 2pter under no pressure, theres junior club players hitting 2pts with ease, its not difficult. scrap the 2pts and get teams trying to work goals with the extra space from 3 up
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on April 16, 2025, 08:21:58 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on April 16, 2025, 01:09:08 AMHow many goals were there last week for such a open game with 3 always up front.
why go for goal and take it in where there is more traffic when you can take a nice 2pter under no pressure, theres junior club players hitting 2pts with ease, its not difficult. scrap the 2pts and get teams trying to work goals with the extra space from 3 up
Or just add 4 for the goal? 2pts for shots taken at the 40m arc and all frees are just 1 pts regardless they are on the pitch
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2025, 08:53:57 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on April 16, 2025, 08:21:58 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on April 16, 2025, 01:09:08 AMHow many goals were there last week for such a open game with 3 always up front.
why go for goal and take it in where there is more traffic when you can take a nice 2pter under no pressure, theres junior club players hitting 2pts with ease, its not difficult. scrap the 2pts and get teams trying to work goals with the extra space from 3 up
Or just add 4 for the goal? 2pts for shots taken at the 40m arc and all frees are just 1 pts regardless they are on the pitch
but when you look at it with just 1 pt and 3 for the goal youre getting 3 times the points for going for goal, with the 4 pt goal its only twice so again its not as big an encouragement. I just dont think the 2 point adds anything, it just makes score lines bigger. if we binned the 2pter we def would see more goals. we seen more goals in the league because of the pitches and conditions, the weather being good with harder pitches makes 2pts far far easier. too easy really
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on April 16, 2025, 09:01:06 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2025, 08:53:57 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on April 16, 2025, 08:21:58 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on April 16, 2025, 01:09:08 AMHow many goals were there last week for such a open game with 3 always up front.
why go for goal and take it in where there is more traffic when you can take a nice 2pter under no pressure, theres junior club players hitting 2pts with ease, its not difficult. scrap the 2pts and get teams trying to work goals with the extra space from 3 up
Or just add 4 for the goal? 2pts for shots taken at the 40m arc and all frees are just 1 pts regardless they are on the pitch
but when you look at it with just 1 pt and 3 for the goal youre getting 3 times the points for going for goal, with the 4 pt goal its only twice so again its not as big an encouragement. I just dont think the 2 point adds anything, it just makes score lines bigger. if we binned the 2pter we def would see more goals. we seen more goals in the league because of the pitches and conditions, the weather being good with harder pitches makes 2pts far far easier. too easy really
Maybe, But they'll tot up the stats I'd assume over the year and hopefully see if there is merit in keeping some aspects of the new rules.. The dissent one is good though, few others are helpful, the changing of the black card for those entering a melee, they are only allowed to clear their own player out of it, and any other interference is seen as a black card, hold a player up also in the tackle is now seen as a black card, that one will be difficult as there are usually multiple players doing that..
Not fussed on the handing back the ball, its tough, no problem with impeding a player when trying to take a quick free, that's just stupid, there will be impossible positions a player will find himself in that may look like it but it has to be intentional and totally avoidable.
Kickout rule is fine, teams just have to adopt and find players that can compete and those that can win the dirty ball, still too many rules too quickly, and some rules impossible to do at club level
2 pointer should go. No massive issue with the rest. But the 2 points has not added anything.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2025, 09:23:03 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on April 16, 2025, 09:01:06 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2025, 08:53:57 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on April 16, 2025, 08:21:58 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on April 16, 2025, 01:09:08 AMHow many goals were there last week for such a open game with 3 always up front.
why go for goal and take it in where there is more traffic when you can take a nice 2pter under no pressure, theres junior club players hitting 2pts with ease, its not difficult. scrap the 2pts and get teams trying to work goals with the extra space from 3 up
Or just add 4 for the goal? 2pts for shots taken at the 40m arc and all frees are just 1 pts regardless they are on the pitch
but when you look at it with just 1 pt and 3 for the goal youre getting 3 times the points for going for goal, with the 4 pt goal its only twice so again its not as big an encouragement. I just dont think the 2 point adds anything, it just makes score lines bigger. if we binned the 2pter we def would see more goals. we seen more goals in the league because of the pitches and conditions, the weather being good with harder pitches makes 2pts far far easier. too easy really
Maybe, But they'll tot up the stats I'd assume over the year and hopefully see if there is merit in keeping some aspects of the new rules.. The dissent one is good though, few others are helpful, the changing of the black card for those entering a melee, they are only allowed to clear their own player out of it, and any other interference is seen as a black card, hold a player up also in the tackle is now seen as a black card, that one will be difficult as there are usually multiple players doing that..
Not fussed on the handing back the ball, its tough, no problem with impeding a player when trying to take a quick free, that's just stupid, there will be impossible positions a player will find himself in that may look like it but it has to be intentional and totally avoidable.
Kickout rule is fine, teams just have to adopt and find players that can compete and those that can win the dirty ball, still too many rules too quickly, and some rules impossible to do at club level
yeah youre prob right they will, hopefully they take it as a complete over all and take club games into consideration too as they clearly didnt when bringing the rules in.
think we could keep the 3v3, solo and go and wed have a cracking game. il hold my hand ups and say I wasnt in favour of any of the rules but these 2 have really opened the game and sped it up. I think the sickout one is unfair and harsh at club level, teams should be able to take a short kick to try and maybe take pressure off when conceding scores.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 16, 2025, 09:32:42 AM2 pointer should go. No massive issue with the rest. But the 2 points has not added anything.
Agree with you for once :o ;D
The scoring system was never a problem.
Once the 4 point goal went the 2 pointer should have gone as well.
I presume there will be no more tweaks until the Special Congress says yes or no to the current "enhancements"?
The arch should go completely, keepers should be able to do short kick outs, if the opposition don't want them to do that they press up, all we are getting is hoofs down to the side or middle and balls spilling, brings nothing to the game. There is no skill with 4 or 5 lads jumping for the same ball all similar size and build.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 11:15:59 AMThe arch should go completely, keepers should be able to do short kick outs, if the opposition don't want them to do that they press up, all we are getting is hoofs down to the side or middle and balls spilling, brings nothing to the game. There is no skill with 4 or 5 lads jumping for the same ball all similar size and build.
Skill?
The thing is, there is infinitely more skill in "4 or 5 lads jumping for the same ball", than there is in kicking or receiving uncontested 13m kickouts.
Basketball is one of the most repetitive and boring sports ever devised. We were most of the way down that tunnel. Thank f**k we've turned around.
There is very little skill when it is more often than not spilled, there is more skill in in my opinion with a team working the ball up and the opposition trying to stop it than 4 or 5 lads crashing into each other spilling a ball. Before the mass defence there were defined positions, a long ball was usually competed for by midfielders now its just a mass of bodies crashing into one another.
I don't understand why we need a £6000 hooter for club games or lower division league games. Surely ref can blow the final whistle which indicates last play? He/she then blows again when ball goes out of play for end of match. It's not rocket science.
Was at an underage game last night, away team had a close in free and one of the their mentors let a roar out of him - 'that's a f**king black card'(which it should have been, and I'm 90% sure the ref was about to produce a black). Ref promptly put his cards back in his pocket and marched to the other end and gave the home team a 13m free. That put an end to the mouthing. Pretty funny too.
Bet the ref walked off the field with the chest pumped out!
Quote from: thewobbler on April 16, 2025, 11:20:58 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 11:15:59 AMThe arch should go completely, keepers should be able to do short kick outs, if the opposition don't want them to do that they press up, all we are getting is hoofs down to the side or middle and balls spilling, brings nothing to the game. There is no skill with 4 or 5 lads jumping for the same ball all similar size and build.
Skill?
The thing is, there is infinitely more skill in "4 or 5 lads jumping for the same ball", than there is in kicking or receiving uncontested 13m kickouts.
Basketball is one of the most repetitive and boring sports ever devised. We were most of the way down that tunnel. Thank f**k we've turned around.
The only time kickouts will not be contested if a team drops off for parts of a game (as we've seen this year with the longer kick out) . Without the keeper in open play, it won't be like pre '25...you still have to work to get the shorter kickout. And, if you get turned over, it's a v short
distance to the goals = excitement
Dropping the large arc to revert to the old kickouts and removing the 2 pointer is probably the only two rules I'd change which won't impact the game negatively imo. Definitely enjoying the football much more this year
Quote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 11:32:56 AMBet the ref walked off the field with the chest pumped out!
Gone do the refs courses and show them how it's done sure... Dose
Quote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 11:26:34 AMThere is very little skill when it is more often than not spilled, there is more skill in in my opinion with a team working the ball up and the opposition trying to stop it than 4 or 5 lads crashing into each other spilling a ball. Before the mass defence there were defined positions, a long ball was usually competed for by midfielders now its just a mass of bodies crashing into one another.
Yes but your opinion is entirely clouded because of Armagh's most recent successful season. Same as Donegal ones a decade ago, Dublin ones for the best part of a decade, Derry ones a couple of seasons ago.
It's only when your team stops being successful that you can be objective about how absolutely f**king awful football had become under the old rules.
Ah come on now Armagh has won 2 All Irelands in their history you really think their success last year is clouding my opinion, seriously!!! I point out 2 rules I think aren't fit for purpose the 2 pointer from moving in a free and the kick out having to go over an arch, the tap and go, no room for dissent, 3 up all have improved the game.
Quote from: JoG2 on April 16, 2025, 11:35:04 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 11:32:56 AMBet the ref walked off the field with the chest pumped out!
Gone do the refs courses and show them how it's done sure... Dose
LMAO - your 6720 posts all must come from being fully qualified for every topic.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 11:32:56 AMBet the ref walked off the field with the chest pumped out!
If I was the manager of that team, that mentor would have been at his last game for that side, proper stupidity
But sure you have a go at the ref, brainless
Quote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 11:15:59 AMThe arch should go completely, keepers should be able to do short kick outs, if the opposition don't want them to do that they press up, all we are getting is hoofs down to the side or middle and balls spilling, brings nothing to the game. There is no skill with 4 or 5 lads jumping for the same ball all similar size and build.
Agree. Solo and go is the best of the rules. 3 up is good in theory but doesn't work.
Quote from: Fr. Cyril McDuff on April 16, 2025, 11:28:53 AMI don't understand why we need a £6000 hooter for club games or lower division league games. Surely ref can blow the final whistle which indicates last play? He/she then blows again when ball goes out of play for end of match. It's not rocket science.
Was at an underage game last night, away team had a close in free and one of the their mentors let a roar out of him - 'that's a f**king black card'(which it should have been, and I'm 90% sure the ref was about to produce a black). Ref promptly put his cards back in his pocket and marched to the other end and gave the home team a 13m free. That put an end to the mouthing. Pretty funny too.
This is the post I read, an outburst from a mentor with no verbal abuse towards the ref, he could have been shouting to the sky for all we know but hey the experts on here are many and so well informed.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 01:11:10 PMQuote from: Fr. Cyril McDuff on April 16, 2025, 11:28:53 AMI don't understand why we need a £6000 hooter for club games or lower division league games. Surely ref can blow the final whistle which indicates last play? He/she then blows again when ball goes out of play for end of match. It's not rocket science.
Was at an underage game last night, away team had a close in free and one of the their mentors let a roar out of him - 'that's a f**king black card'(which it should have been, and I'm 90% sure the ref was about to produce a black). Ref promptly put his cards back in his pocket and marched to the other end and gave the home team a 13m free. That put an end to the mouthing. Pretty funny too.
This is the post I read, an outburst from a mentor with no verbal abuse towards the ref, he could have been shouting to the sky for all we know but hey the experts on here are many and so well informed.
First off, they won the free, a close in free and from being a point up they lost that by a mentor, who is well informed on what they say on the line will have a bearing on decisions made by the ref, its to stamp out dickheads on the line from shouting off their mouth.
He roared it out, and if you think he was just shouting it to the sky then you're just being obtuse. He'll not do it again and the ref won't have to 'puff out his chest' and move the ball the other direction.
As you have said, you weren't there but making assumptions and not as informed as the poster who was there
What is the correct punishment for someone outside of players shouting abuse? Should he not have carded the mentor?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 16, 2025, 01:47:26 PMWhat is the correct punishment for someone outside of players shouting abuse? Should he not have carded the mentor?
He should have, yellow card and free on the 21 in front of goal
Cheers. Didn't actual know that the ref could move the free/ reverse a free for anything other than player actions. Always thought correct action was yellow card/ red card Mentor and continue with game.
Every day a school day.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2025, 01:21:04 PMQuote from: flowerpot on April 16, 2025, 01:11:10 PMQuote from: Fr. Cyril McDuff on April 16, 2025, 11:28:53 AMI don't understand why we need a £6000 hooter for club games or lower division league games. Surely ref can blow the final whistle which indicates last play? He/she then blows again when ball goes out of play for end of match. It's not rocket science.
Was at an underage game last night, away team had a close in free and one of the their mentors let a roar out of him - 'that's a f**king black card'(which it should have been, and I'm 90% sure the ref was about to produce a black). Ref promptly put his cards back in his pocket and marched to the other end and gave the home team a 13m free. That put an end to the mouthing. Pretty funny too.
This is the post I read, an outburst from a mentor with no verbal abuse towards the ref, he could have been shouting to the sky for all we know but hey the experts on here are many and so well informed.
First off, they won the free, a close in free and from being a point up they lost that by a mentor, who is well informed on what they say on the line will have a bearing on decisions made by the ref, its to stamp out dickheads on the line from shouting off their mouth.
He roared it out, and if you think he was just shouting it to the sky then you're just being obtuse. He'll not do it again and the ref won't have to 'puff out his chest' and move the ball the other direction.
As you have said, you weren't there but making assumptions and not as informed as the poster who was there
The mentor in question was doing the line over beside where the free was, so there was no question who was shouting and that he was shouting at the ref. The ref's problem, he said after, was the bad language used at an underage game. It was a minor enough incident (the language used wasn't anything particularly terrible or out of the ordinary - 'f**k sake, that's a f**king black card' or something along those lines). The free reversal was a clear turning point in the game. Lesson learned for any mentors/coaches who were there.
Not sure if he should have carded the mentor tbh, I'm not a ref, but does a yellow card matter in any way to a mentor? A 13m is a far bigger deterrent than a card.
At an u18 game last night and ref gave two points for keeper tapping over and then allowed to frees to go back to keeper as he said was ok on frees.
I see this happening a lot at inter county and club level whereby the kicker knocks the ball backwards to an unmarked player to create the opportunity for a two pointer.
(https://scontent.fdub3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/490785557_1083236660513418_2100928394682655020_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=x1gDEvl1EywQ7kNvwFilad4&_nc_oc=AdmM1_wxz-zLlh8oQNeCrldgXC_WMFapfW9Zf_OePz0jRgYKjXY0NkocetPhmuM00yw&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub3-2.fna&_nc_gid=Pe7PvSXPI8MxOnqJvKzEXw&oh=00_AfH7ne3nb8onIxyWxeBZcXKa6HY3uUQAr7LqRKWCmjAVzQ&oe=6805A5F1)
Starting to look like McGuinness, Harte and all the county, club and college coaches that copied them have left the game unfixable...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2025, 01:49:23 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on April 16, 2025, 01:47:26 PMWhat is the correct punishment for someone outside of players shouting abuse? Should he not have carded the mentor?
He should have, yellow card and free on the 21 in front of goal
So what would have happened if the opposing mentors had shouted "that's a fúcking yellow card ref"?
Would the ref have marched the ball back up the field?
;D
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 16, 2025, 03:48:18 PMStarting to look like McGuinness, Harte and all the county, club and college coaches that copied them have left the game unfixable...
That's it in a nutshell.
Some of the remedies that the FRC have introduced to address the no-risk possession game have drastically altered the nature and shape of the game.
The introduction of the 2-pointer has seen a huge amount of the play happening back and forth around the 40m arc.
It has distorted the shape of the game. It has also distorted the scoring system which did not need fixing.
For Mickey Harte the chickens came home to roost last Sunday.
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 16, 2025, 03:26:59 PMI see this happening a lot at inter county and club level whereby the kicker knocks the ball backwards to an unmarked player to create the opportunity for a two pointer.
(https://scontent.fdub3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/490785557_1083236660513418_2100928394682655020_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=x1gDEvl1EywQ7kNvwFilad4&_nc_oc=AdmM1_wxz-zLlh8oQNeCrldgXC_WMFapfW9Zf_OePz0jRgYKjXY0NkocetPhmuM00yw&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub3-2.fna&_nc_gid=Pe7PvSXPI8MxOnqJvKzEXw&oh=00_AfH7ne3nb8onIxyWxeBZcXKa6HY3uUQAr7LqRKWCmjAVzQ&oe=6805A5F1)
thats on the other team for not picking up the loose player
So you can have a short 45 with the onus on the opposition to pick up loose players, but not a short kick out with the same onus, one scenario rewards 2 points the other mere possession in your own half, interesting.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 05:52:58 AMSo you can have a short 45 with the onus on the opposition to pick up loose players, but not a short kick out with the same onus, one scenario rewards 2 points the other mere possession in your own half, interesting.
If your are managing your team and in a free kick situation and your players are not picking up the loose players then that's poor management
Ditto for short kick outs, but those aren't allowed, just hoof it into a crowd, top skillset there.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 08:14:43 AMDitto for short kick outs, but those aren't allowed, just hoof it into a crowd, top skillset there.
There is zero skill involved by anyone when a keeper butts a 13m kickout to an unmarked teammate.
Zero.
None at all.
Zilch.
Stop describing long kickouts as skillless when your preferred alternative is the very and utter definition of skillless. Find some other bat to use if you may, but not this one.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 08:14:43 AMDitto for short kick outs, but those aren't allowed, just hoof it into a crowd, top skillset there.
Exactly. Good to see Morgan get some kickouts away into pockets against Cavan but 90% of the time it's just a hoof up the pitch. No skill there whatsoever. People go on about the risk/reward of a long ball into the forward line but don't apply the same thinking to kickouts
The skill then is for the attacking team to work it up for a score, the skill for the defending team is to stop them. There is zero skill in hoofing a ball 50 yards and hoping someone from your team wins a breaking ball.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 08:33:56 AMThe skill then is for the attacking team to work it up for a score, the skill for the defending team is to stop them. There is zero skill in hoofing a ball 50 yards and hoping someone from your team wins a breaking ball.
For this to be in any way valid, then it requires the game (rules and culture) to follow a principle that every time a team gets a shot away, then their opponent gains an advantage of directly receiving the ball.
Basketball follows that principle. And it's a largely unwatchable sport until the final quarter.
Go watch basketball Pot. Most of us would prefer to watch a game that rewards conviction, challenges, and bravery.
——
Also if you think there's no skill involved in accurate long kickouts, high fielding, and winning breaking ball, then there's no hope for you. You're too young and you've been watching / playing the wrong sport. Over time you'll understand..
Quote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 08:33:56 AMThe skill then is for the attacking team to work it up for a score, the skill for the defending team is to stop them. There is zero skill in hoofing a ball 50 yards and hoping someone from your team wins a breaking ball.
Someone has to win the ball regardless! Why not the team that their keeper is kicking the ball out to?
So are we looking at a team that has a kick out gets automatic possession of the ball? Would that help make the game better?
Teams have to set up accordingly to win their kickouts depending on their opponents, either you are competing for the ball by catching, breaking it down for a team mate or punching it on and competing for the break ball that's is something for the team to work out...
Mindless handing the ball over to a unmarked player for a short kickout is not a skill, so I'm not sure why one of these is looked at as a skill and the other is not. It infuriates me when short kick outs were allowed to happen in the first place and why teams didn't press and apply pressure.
Bless you for thinking I am young ill take that, high fielding back in the day was a joy to watch, maybe because of the last decade that has been lost but clean catches are very rare, there are 4 or five lads going for a ball, wee niggles in the back going on all the time, more often than not the ball spills and its a lottery who gets it. Take Morgan or Blaine last year picking out lads breaking free and running into space that was skill on the keeper spotting the runner and the runner breaking free.
Edit you could argue well why is that not happening now, it's because everyone is over the arch and between it and midfield except the 6 at the other end, its a fecking minefield!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2025, 08:48:53 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 08:33:56 AMThe skill then is for the attacking team to work it up for a score, the skill for the defending team is to stop them. There is zero skill in hoofing a ball 50 yards and hoping someone from your team wins a breaking ball.
Someone has to win the ball regardless! Why not the team that their keeper is kicking the ball out to?
So are we looking at a team that has a kick out gets automatic possession of the ball? Would that help make the game better?
Teams have to set up accordingly to win their kickouts depending on their opponents, either you are competing for the ball by catching, breaking it down for a team mate or punching it on and competing for the break ball that's is something for the team to work out...
Mindless handing the ball over to a unmarked player for a short kickout is not a skill, so I'm not sure why one of these is looked at as a skill and the other is not. It infuriates me when short kick outs were allowed to happen in the first place and why teams didn't press and apply pressure.
Who said that, as you pointed out.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2025, 05:21:11 PMthats on the other team for not picking up the loose player
Quote from: thewobbler on April 17, 2025, 08:30:46 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 08:14:43 AMDitto for short kick outs, but those aren't allowed, just hoof it into a crowd, top skillset there.
There is zero skill involved by anyone when a keeper butts a 13m kickout to an unmarked teammate.
Zero.
None at all.
Zilch.
Stop describing long kickouts as skillless when your preferred alternative is the very and utter definition of skillless. Find some other bat to use if you may, but not this one.
Opposition press up, keeper gets a kickout away short to the sideline or outside the D and possession is retained if the player keeps hold. If the player looses it and the opposition are pressed up that's a goal. There's no skill in getting a kickout away to an unmarked man 13m away the same way there's no skill in hoofing the ball 50m
Quote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 08:55:31 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2025, 08:48:53 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 17, 2025, 08:33:56 AMThe skill then is for the attacking team to work it up for a score, the skill for the defending team is to stop them. There is zero skill in hoofing a ball 50 yards and hoping someone from your team wins a breaking ball.
Someone has to win the ball regardless! Why not the team that their keeper is kicking the ball out to?
So are we looking at a team that has a kick out gets automatic possession of the ball? Would that help make the game better?
Teams have to set up accordingly to win their kickouts depending on their opponents, either you are competing for the ball by catching, breaking it down for a team mate or punching it on and competing for the break ball that's is something for the team to work out...
Mindless handing the ball over to a unmarked player for a short kickout is not a skill, so I'm not sure why one of these is looked at as a skill and the other is not. It infuriates me when short kick outs were allowed to happen in the first place and why teams didn't press and apply pressure.
Who said that, as you pointed out.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2025, 05:21:11 PMthats on the other team for not picking up the loose player
No one.. That's a question, I'm asking it, and that is why I put a question mark on the end of that sentence, you must know by now how that works?
Ask away, seems like a daft question, I am sure you will be flooded with replies.
Almost all field games allow teams to play in different ways. Long, short or a mix of both.
I think short and long kickouts should be allowed. Decision making is part of the game. Teams could then decide to press or not to press.
At the moment forwards have no decision to make. Just head back out and get onto breaks while hopefully pulling defense out of position.
Defenders 2,3,4 and 6 are virtually obsolete on kickouts now.
If they stay inside arc they are out of play completely, cannot receive the ball, miles away from their man and are allowing teammates further out the field to be double marked.
If they follow out the field, they have v little chance of getting ball (in a v high risk situation)and the team has a ludicrous defensive shape (none at all).
The new game is so far skewed in favour of forwards and the recent scorelines back this up.
Its Frankenstein Football on EPO.
If you want a game with few scores soccer is the game for you.
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on April 17, 2025, 09:09:44 PMAlmost all field games allow teams to play in different ways. Long, short or a mix of both.
I think short and long kickouts should be allowed. Decision making is part of the game. Teams could then decide to press or not to press.
At the moment forwards have no decision to make. Just head back out and get onto breaks while hopefully pulling defense out of position.
Defenders 2,3,4 and 6 are virtually obsolete on kickouts now.
If they stay inside arc they are out of play completely, cannot receive the ball, miles away from their man and are allowing teammates further out the field to be double marked.
If they follow out the field, they have v little chance of getting ball (in a v high risk situation)and the team has a ludicrous defensive shape (none at all).
The new game is so far skewed in favour of forwards and the recent scorelines back this up.
Its Frankenstein Football on EPO.
The single, underlying and most emphatic reason why football is currently skewed in favour of forwards is because for the past decade forwards have had no choice but to become sharper, smarter, braver, stronger more clinical, all because the rules were so heavily skewed against them.
If they're having fun now it's because they're reaping what they've been sowing.
It's now time for defenders to do likewise. Imagine marking a man and competing for the ball in front and with every last sinew? Surely it can't be that hard to imagine.
Also, why a fullback line should be involved in kickouts is just something i can't grasp.
They're meant to be defenders ffs. Their job is to nullify attackers, not be auxiliary midfielders.
Imo allowing the option of the short kickout improves the game in two main ways:
Firstly, it releases some of the congestion around the middle and increases the potential for a clean, high catch. (That might allow for a relaxation of the draconian rules around touching someone who makes that catch too).
Secondly, it brings a tactical decision into play, press or concede, only now, with the GK overlap option gone, the reward for pressing should be magnified and equally, the 3 up rule means that the risk and potential consequences of a press going wrong is hugely increased too.
Another big benefit is the simple fact that variation is more interesting for the spectator. Yes, we might have grown up on a diet of long kickouts, but having seen the dynamics that short options introduce, I would quite like to have the option retained.
Short kick out followed by slow crab like handpassing bored spectators to sleep leading to the FRC.......
Be very interesting when inter County forwards come back to play club football. Basically professionals v amateurs with no real way to defend except man on man, no way to slow the beating either.
Be like a professional high ranked boxer hammering a journey man amateur but the new rules don't allow you to put up your gloves to protect yourself. Just take your pummelling. It's what the people want (apparently).
No, people would much prefer the cagy 0-5 to 0-4 game where teams played everyone behind he ball, they were much more interesting
Quote from: thewobbler on April 17, 2025, 10:50:54 PMAlso, why a fullback line should be involved in kickouts is just something i can't grasp.
They're meant to be defenders ffs. Their job is to nullify attackers, not be auxiliary midfielders.
You really are going back in time, everyone stand in their position, should defenders not be scoring, attackers not be defending, the game has evolved there is no defined positions now, even for the keeper. Full backs can go up field under these rules and compete for the kickout, why is there an issue with them breaking into free space taking a quick ball from the keeper and starting an attack.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 08:23:44 AMShort kick out followed by slow crab like handpassing bored spectators to sleep leading to the FRC.......
It's so much more exciting to see the same hoof out the field and men bouncing of each other with the ball spilling. The lottery of who gets the breaking ball is edge of the seat stuff.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 17, 2025, 09:12:38 PMIf you want a game with few scores soccer is the game for you.
And if you want a game with 30+ scores then hurling or basketball is the game for you lol. It can go both ways
Quote from: thewobbler on April 17, 2025, 10:50:54 PMAlso, why a fullback line should be involved in kickouts is just something i can't grasp.
They're meant to be defenders ffs. Their job is to nullify attackers, not be auxiliary midfielders.
Why is everyone so backwards about this. Keepers shoudln't have any skill on the ball and should be forced to kick it long, defenders shouldn't get involved on kickouts (why would you limit yourself to only kicking to certain players). Wonder what you guys thought of the likes of Ricey or Keegan
Quote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 08:53:37 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 08:23:44 AMShort kick out followed by slow crab like handpassing bored spectators to sleep leading to the FRC.......
The lottery of who gets the breaking ball is edge of the seat stuff.
It actually is.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2025, 08:46:34 AMNo, people would much prefer the cagy 0-5 to 0-4 game where teams played everyone behind he ball, they were much more interesting
I love watching teams score 2 points because a player didn't hand the ball back to the player that was deemed closest to him
He'll hand it back next time ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:40:53 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 08:53:37 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 08:23:44 AMShort kick out followed by slow crab like handpassing bored spectators to sleep leading to the FRC.......
The lottery of who gets the breaking ball is edge of the seat stuff.
It actually is.
Some skillset that. It's akin to a snooker player whacking into the reds not a clue where they will go but hoping for a result.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 09:46:49 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2025, 08:46:34 AMNo, people would much prefer the cagy 0-5 to 0-4 game where teams played everyone behind he ball, they were much more interesting
I love watching teams score 2 points because a player didn't hand the ball back to the player that was deemed closest to him
Thems the rules, seems there is some sort of mental block in understanding that. Until it changes that's what's happening. I'm not sure why it's not happening in the game you watched unless the lads haven't been taught it.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2025, 10:28:54 AMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 09:46:49 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2025, 08:46:34 AMNo, people would much prefer the cagy 0-5 to 0-4 game where teams played everyone behind he ball, they were much more interesting
I love watching teams score 2 points because a player didn't hand the ball back to the player that was deemed closest to him
Thems the rules, seems there is some sort of mental block in understanding that. Until it changes that's what's happening. I'm not sure why it's not happening in the game you watched unless the lads haven't been taught it.
Exactly the same as the old rules then. Ones complaining about low scoring, possession based football, handpassing, delaying the game to a certain degree (Comerford after saving the pen), keepers being brought forward. All allowed within the rules of the game yet you still had ones complaining about it
Tweaks that's a understatement, would any other sport put so many untested rules into their premier competitions.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:55:59 AMTweaks that's a understatement, would any other sport put so many untested rules into their premier competitions.
It was either that or disband :D ffs! I fell asleep during last years All Ireland final before the last few minutes when the games started.
And club football was worse. Blame the coaches who ruined the game.
It was lucky you woke when you did.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 11:06:10 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:55:59 AMTweaks that's a understatement, would any other sport put so many untested rules into their premier competitions.
It was either that or disband :D ffs! I fell asleep during last years All Ireland final before the last few minutes when the games started.
And club football was worse. Blame the coaches who ruined the game.
You should probably go back and watch it, it was a pretty decent game with multiple lead changes and some fine scores from both sides coupled with excellent defending
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 11:06:10 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:55:59 AMTweaks that's a understatement, would any other sport put so many untested rules into their premier competitions.
It was either that or disband :D ffs! I fell asleep during last years All Ireland final before the last few minutes when the games started.
And club football was worse. Blame the coaches who ruined the game.
Club football was worse? As in the All Ireland SF and Final? Must be watching a different game
Quote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 08:50:45 AMQuote from: thewobbler on April 17, 2025, 10:50:54 PMAlso, why a fullback line should be involved in kickouts is just something i can't grasp.
They're meant to be defenders ffs. Their job is to nullify attackers, not be auxiliary midfielders.
You really are going back in time, everyone stand in their position, should defenders not be scoring, attackers not be defending, the game has evolved there is no defined positions now, even for the keeper. Full backs can go up field under these rules and compete for the kickout, why is there an issue with them breaking into free space taking a quick ball from the keeper and starting an attack.
I think you'll find that in nearly every instance of every rule change, in every sport, in the history of the world, the reason for the rule change is to go "back in time".
Coaches find ways to take advantage of the rules. Other coaches copy. Game becomes boring. Rule makers intervene. Then we go again.
I mean following your daft logic, then soccer keepers should be able to pick up back passes as some of them had made an art form of it in the early 1990s. Daft. Completely f**king daft.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 18, 2025, 12:27:34 PMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 08:50:45 AMQuote from: thewobbler on April 17, 2025, 10:50:54 PMAlso, why a fullback line should be involved in kickouts is just something i can't grasp.
They're meant to be defenders ffs. Their job is to nullify attackers, not be auxiliary midfielders.
You really are going back in time, everyone stand in their position, should defenders not be scoring, attackers not be defending, the game has evolved there is no defined positions now, even for the keeper. Full backs can go up field under these rules and compete for the kickout, why is there an issue with them breaking into free space taking a quick ball from the keeper and starting an attack.
I think you'll find that in nearly every instance of every rule change, in every sport, in the history of the world, the reason for the rule change is to go "back in time".
Coaches find ways to take advantage of the rules. Other coaches copy. Game becomes boring. Rule makers intervene. Then we go again.
I mean following your daft logic, then soccer keepers should be able to pick up back passes as some of them had made an art form of it in the early 1990s. Daft. Completely f**king daft.
What about the NBA? Can't stand in the paint for more than 3 consecutive seconds, can't post someone up for more than 5 seconds, however many rules they brought in to limit Wilt. They enhanced the game from watching 2 big men fight it out in the paint every possession. Back 20 years ago C would be crucified for taking a 3 but the players and coaches adapted and now every team has a big that can shoot. We developed from keepers being scared of touching the ball in open play to keepers scoring from play. That's called development. Every sport goes through rough spells. No other sport changes the rules this drastically because of a few years where the score wasn't as high as it was in the 70's
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2025, 12:09:02 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 11:06:10 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:55:59 AMTweaks that's a understatement, would any other sport put so many untested rules into their premier competitions.
It was either that or disband :D ffs! I fell asleep during last years All Ireland final before the last few minutes when the games started.
And club football was worse. Blame the coaches who ruined the game.
You should probably go back and watch it, it was a pretty decent game with multiple lead changes and some fine scores from both sides coupled with excellent defending
It was horrendous until the last 10 minutes or so... anyone who claims football was OK doesn't care about the game...
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:18:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 11:06:10 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:55:59 AMTweaks that's a understatement, would any other sport put so many untested rules into their premier competitions.
It was either that or disband :D ffs! I fell asleep during last years All Ireland final before the last few minutes when the games started.
And club football was worse. Blame the coaches who ruined the game.
Club football was worse? As in the All Ireland SF and Final? Must be watching a different game
Do you go to club games or just watch those two on TV? Was one game a player doing keepy-uppsys in the middle of the field as there was no one bothered to come out and try and tackle him.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 17, 2025, 10:50:54 PMAlso, why a fullback line should be involved in kickouts is just something i can't grasp.
They're meant to be defenders ffs. Their job is to nullify attackers, not be auxiliary midfielders.
My point is that defenders are not even being allowed to defend. The kickout arc makes holding a good defensive position almost impossible.
Either stay inside arc in a zonal structure but miles from your man or follow out and leave no defensive structure. Both are terrible options for defenders.
If you cannot understand this basic point I'm not sure anybody should be taking your points seriously on the rule changes.
The good old days... https://extra.ie/2024/10/16/sport/gaa/clare-gaa-ennistymon-eire-og-keepy-uppy
Video is there... 🤮
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 12:51:48 PMThe good old days... https://extra.ie/2024/10/16/sport/gaa/clare-gaa-ennistymon-eire-og-keepy-uppy
Video is there... 🤮
Nobody is saying scrap all the new rules. They're saying it's still not quite right and needs adjustment.
3 up and solo go would have been enough to begin with. It was the blanket that caused most problems. 3v3 and solo go may have solved that.
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on April 18, 2025, 01:37:40 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 12:51:48 PMThe good old days... https://extra.ie/2024/10/16/sport/gaa/clare-gaa-ennistymon-eire-og-keepy-uppy
Video is there... 🤮
Nobody is saying scrap all the new rules. They're saying it's still not quite right and needs adjustment.
3 up and solo go would have been enough to begin with. It was the blanket that caused most problems. 3v3 and solo go may have solved that.
I agree is not the finished article. Was a lot of exciting league games and there are comments here righting off the new rules and harking back to the good old years we had recently, after a few first round league games.
I think the kick out is good, is also onus on players to find space, not just high fielding which is great.
I'm not dying bout bringing ball up 50 yards, maybe 20 yards is enough, and while 2 pointers are an incentive putting a goal to 4 points might encourage teams to hunt goals. We're going in the right direction. It was a shambles in recent years so not easy fixed.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 12:47:24 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:18:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 11:06:10 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:55:59 AMTweaks that's a understatement, would any other sport put so many untested rules into their premier competitions.
It was either that or disband :D ffs! I fell asleep during last years All Ireland final before the last few minutes when the games started.
And club football was worse. Blame the coaches who ruined the game.
Club football was worse? As in the All Ireland SF and Final? Must be watching a different game
Do you go to club games or just watch those two on TV? Was one game a player doing keepy-uppsys in the middle of the field as there was no one bothered to come out and try and tackle him.
Have missed 3 club games that I can remember not including the covid year. Two of those I was working away from home, third was the last league game of the year. Complete dead rubber and 2 reserve teams out. The exact same can happen now in regards to the keepy uppys, there's no rules saying teams have to press up. That's down to managerial decisions. I'm sure in the next year we'll see coaches manipulate the rules to suit them unless we continue to change the rules until people like yourself are happy
Quote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 02:31:54 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Same as Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness and whoever else people give out about then...
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 03:04:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 02:31:54 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Same as Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness and whoever else people give out about then...
You're comparing Jim Gavin tactics to Jimmy McGuinness 🤣 McGuinness the bollox lit the fire.
Harte hadn't a clue what he was doing... got left behind bout 2010..
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 12:45:31 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2025, 12:09:02 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 11:06:10 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:55:59 AMTweaks that's a understatement, would any other sport put so many untested rules into their premier competitions.
It was either that or disband :D ffs! I fell asleep during last years All Ireland final before the last few minutes when the games started.
And club football was worse. Blame the coaches who ruined the game.
You should probably go back and watch it, it was a pretty decent game with multiple lead changes and some fine scores from both sides coupled with excellent defending
It was horrendous until the last 10 minutes or so... anyone who claims football was OK doesn't care about the game...
I thought you fell asleep? You are entitled to your opinion but i thought it was a pretty good match. Not brilliant but pretty good with some excellent scores and excellent defending. It was also on a knife edge throughout.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 04:47:46 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 03:04:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 02:31:54 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Same as Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness and whoever else people give out about then...
You're comparing Jim Gavin tactics to Jimmy McGuinness 🤣 McGuinness the bollox lit the fire.
Harte hadn't a clue what he was doing... got left behind bout 2010..
Where did I compare their tactics? If you could quote me word for word where I said that it would be much appreciated. You said "Because he (Jim Gavin) worked within the rules". I replied and said so did Mickey Harte and McGuinness. Jim Gavin had the whole thing about getting the best shot off. That's the only 2 points I made
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 04:59:02 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 04:47:46 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 03:04:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 02:31:54 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Same as Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness and whoever else people give out about then...
You're comparing Jim Gavin tactics to Jimmy McGuinness 🤣 McGuinness the bollox lit the fire.
Harte hadn't a clue what he was doing... got left behind bout 2010..
Where did I compare their tactics? If you could quote me word for word where I said that it would be much appreciated. You said "Because he (Jim Gavin) worked within the rules". I replied and said so did Mickey Harte and McGuinness. Jim Gavin had the whole thing about getting the best shot off. That's the only 2 points I made
You said "same as Harte & McGuinness".. thought you meant same style of play. I certainly wouldn't have wanted Harte or McGuinness anywhere near the committee came up with new rules 😒
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 05:05:49 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 04:59:02 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 04:47:46 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 03:04:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 02:31:54 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Same as Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness and whoever else people give out about then...
You're comparing Jim Gavin tactics to Jimmy McGuinness 🤣 McGuinness the bollox lit the fire.
Harte hadn't a clue what he was doing... got left behind bout 2010..
Where did I compare their tactics? If you could quote me word for word where I said that it would be much appreciated. You said "Because he (Jim Gavin) worked within the rules". I replied and said so did Mickey Harte and McGuinness. Jim Gavin had the whole thing about getting the best shot off. That's the only 2 points I made
You said "same as Harte & McGuinness".. thought you meant same style of play. I certainly wouldn't have wanted Harte or McGuinness anywhere near the committee came up with new rules 😒
There's a surprise. Thankfully I don't think they'll be asking your advice.
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 04:59:02 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 04:47:46 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 03:04:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 02:31:54 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Same as Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness and whoever else people give out about then...
You're comparing Jim Gavin tactics to Jimmy McGuinness 🤣 McGuinness the bollox lit the fire.
Harte hadn't a clue what he was doing... got left behind bout 2010..
Where did I compare their tactics? If you could quote me word for word where I said that it would be much appreciated. You said "Because he (Jim Gavin) worked within the rules". I replied and said so did Mickey Harte and McGuinness. Jim Gavin had the whole thing about getting the best shot off. That's the only 2 points I made
His hatred for MH has tied him up in knots a bit here. It grates him that MH will always be considered one of the best managers in the GAA, especially within Tyrone.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 19, 2025, 12:16:33 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 05:05:49 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 04:59:02 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 04:47:46 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 03:04:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 02:31:54 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Same as Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness and whoever else people give out about then...
You're comparing Jim Gavin tactics to Jimmy McGuinness 🤣 McGuinness the bollox lit the fire.
Harte hadn't a clue what he was doing... got left behind bout 2010..
Where did I compare their tactics? If you could quote me word for word where I said that it would be much appreciated. You said "Because he (Jim Gavin) worked within the rules". I replied and said so did Mickey Harte and McGuinness. Jim Gavin had the whole thing about getting the best shot off. That's the only 2 points I made
You said "same as Harte & McGuinness".. thought you meant same style of play. I certainly wouldn't have wanted Harte or McGuinness anywhere near the committee came up with new rules 😒
There's a surprise. Thankfully I don't think they'll be asking your advice. Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 04:59:02 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 04:47:46 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 03:04:59 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 02:31:54 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 02:18:54 PMQuote from: JoG2 on April 18, 2025, 01:39:36 PMQuote from: thebigfullforward on April 18, 2025, 12:17:37 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 18, 2025, 10:52:31 AMQuote from: flowerpot on April 18, 2025, 10:03:14 AMQuote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2025, 09:59:01 AMHe'll hand it back next time ;)
If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.
I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.
Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122 (https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122)
Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?
I wouldn't know either. Just find it funny how Gavin helped introduce the type of football ones were complaining about and now those same ones are praising him lol
Because he worked within the rules but knew the whole thing was a shitshow. Murphy same...
Same as Mickey Harte, Jim McGuinness and whoever else people give out about then...
You're comparing Jim Gavin tactics to Jimmy McGuinness 🤣 McGuinness the bollox lit the fire.
Harte hadn't a clue what he was doing... got left behind bout 2010..
Where did I compare their tactics? If you could quote me word for word where I said that it would be much appreciated. You said "Because he (Jim Gavin) worked within the rules". I replied and said so did Mickey Harte and McGuinness. Jim Gavin had the whole thing about getting the best shot off. That's the only 2 points I made
His hatred for MH has tied him up in knots a bit here. It grates him that MH will always be considered one of the best managers in the GAA, especially within Tyrone.
Was brilliant till about 2010 then got left behind. If you want to worship at his altar go right ahead, you'll find as many in Tyrone have same view as me. On the plus side he did take the middle out of the Derry project!
But sure according to you, teams were using the same tactics as what he brought into the game up until these new changes were implemented. Hardly left behind.
Derry was always a bad fit. For both sides. Louth improved under his watch, Offaly will too. He's still a good manager. That hasn't changed.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 19, 2025, 02:02:05 PMBut sure according to you, teams were using the same tactics as what he brought into the game up until these new changes were implemented. Hardly left behind.
Derry was always a bad fit. For both sides. Louth improved under his watch, Offaly will too. He's still a good manager. That hasn't changed.
Agreed.. Find it astonishing that a Tyrone man would continously slag the man off, 3 AI's ffs #brollylite I suppose
Best manager since 2000
Mickey Harte took tyrone from 0 to 3 all irelands in 5 years playing superb football. 2005 final was one of the best games ever.
No Tyrone man with a ounce of common sense would slag off Mickey Harte. Zero Senior All Ireland titles won before he changed that and made household names out of players. Even the last AI title was the team that Harte built. The chap on here needs to change his username to bullshitsayer
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2025, 02:53:37 PMNo Tyrone man with a ounce of common sense would slag off Mickey Harte. Zero Senior All Ireland titles won before he changed that and made household names out of players. Even the last AI title was the team that Harte built. The chap on here needs to change his username to bullshitsayer
Lets be honest mickey went off the boil after 2011. He managed one of the best tyrone teams ever, he was innovative. After 2011 he became obsessed with proving everyone wrong that a defensive based system was beneficial.
He stuck to a flawed system which resulted in mark Bradley being left up the field alone being marked by 3 dublin men in 2018 final.
If you say the 2021 team was mickeys then you have to say the 2003 team was Arthurs.
Mickey was a great man in the 00s but failed to adapt
Quote from: tyrone08 on April 19, 2025, 03:33:36 PMQuote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2025, 02:53:37 PMNo Tyrone man with a ounce of common sense would slag off Mickey Harte. Zero Senior All Ireland titles won before he changed that and made household names out of players. Even the last AI title was the team that Harte built. The chap on here needs to change his username to bullshitsayer
Lets be honest mickey went off the boil after 2011. He managed one of the best tyrone teams ever, he was innovative. After 2011 he became obsessed with proving everyone wrong that a defensive based system was beneficial.
He stuck to a flawed system which resulted in mark Bradley being left up the field alone being marked by 3 dublin men in 2018 final.
If you say the 2021 team was mickeys then you have to say the 2003 team was Arthurs.
Mickey was a great man in the 00s but failed to adapt
Yet he's still winning league titles wherever he goes. He might have taken too long to adapt but to say he still hasn't is silly in my opinion
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 19, 2025, 04:13:30 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on April 19, 2025, 03:33:36 PMQuote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2025, 02:53:37 PMNo Tyrone man with a ounce of common sense would slag off Mickey Harte. Zero Senior All Ireland titles won before he changed that and made household names out of players. Even the last AI title was the team that Harte built. The chap on here needs to change his username to bullshitsayer
Lets be honest mickey went off the boil after 2011. He managed one of the best tyrone teams ever, he was innovative. After 2011 he became obsessed with proving everyone wrong that a defensive based system was beneficial.
He stuck to a flawed system which resulted in mark Bradley being left up the field alone being marked by 3 dublin men in 2018 final.
If you say the 2021 team was mickeys then you have to say the 2003 team was Arthurs.
Mickey was a great man in the 00s but failed to adapt
Yet he's still winning league titles wherever he goes. He might have taken too long to adapt but to say he still hasn't is silly in my opinion
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 19, 2025, 04:13:30 PMQuote from: tyrone08 on April 19, 2025, 03:33:36 PMQuote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2025, 02:53:37 PMNo Tyrone man with a ounce of common sense would slag off Mickey Harte. Zero Senior All Ireland titles won before he changed that and made household names out of players. Even the last AI title was the team that Harte built. The chap on here needs to change his username to bullshitsayer
Lets be honest mickey went off the boil after 2011. He managed one of the best tyrone teams ever, he was innovative. After 2011 he became obsessed with proving everyone wrong that a defensive based system was beneficial.
He stuck to a flawed system which resulted in mark Bradley being left up the field alone being marked by 3 dublin men in 2018 final.
If you say the 2021 team was mickeys then you have to say the 2003 team was Arthurs.
Mickey was a great man in the 00s but failed to adapt
Yet he's still winning league titles wherever he goes. He might have taken too long to adapt but to say he still hasn't is silly in my opinion
Aye league titles is about where he's at compared to those days. All managers go past their sell by dates.. it happens... Cody.. Mick O'Dwyer said he should have quit earlier. Harte is 70! The game at top level has passed him by. Not denying his achievements back in '00s were brilliant.
At which point does it pass you by? Are 70 year olds unable to grow with the game or does their brain not allow them to keep up with new demands/developments?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2025, 04:36:45 PMAt which point does it pass you by? Are 70 year olds unable to grow with the game or does their brain not allow them to keep up with new demands/developments?
I don't know when it passes you by but it does as you get older... tell me the managers up the years that maintained at the highest level. You don't be as sharp, same as sports that don't require physical fitness... darts, snooker... show me examples that disprove that.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 05:35:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2025, 04:36:45 PMAt which point does it pass you by? Are 70 year olds unable to grow with the game or does their brain not allow them to keep up with new demands/developments?
I don't know when it passes you by but it does as you get older... tell me the managers up the years that maintained at the highest level. You don't be as sharp, same as sports that don't require physical fitness... darts, snooker... show me examples that disprove that.
Would say Larry Brown in 04 was up there when his Pistons won. Bruce Arians and Bill Belichick would both be mid to late 60s when they won the super bowl. What age would Fergie have been in 2012? Late 60s too?
Right so what's the rule there then? Armagh U20 got punished for doing the exact same thing Kerry did there. Both players walked back with didn't they? So why was one of them called and the other wasn't?
That Cork-Kerry game nails the myth that new rules have ruined the game. Brilliant- Pure drama!
Is this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
Yeah, people like to be entertained.
By shite football? Mouth breathers.
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.
Anyone know why that was brought forward for Cork?
Clifford probably said something as he was clearly remonstrating about the throw ball being called.
Bizarre set of circumstances though. Cork tried to take free about 30 yards on from where it took place, called back, next thing it was moved forward, and an awful lot more than 50m from where the foul took place.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:19:11 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.
Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 19, 2025, 09:42:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:19:11 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.
Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.
Insufferable - their default position is negative.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:50:25 PMQuote from: Rossfan on April 19, 2025, 09:42:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:19:11 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.
Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.
Insufferable - their default position is negative.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 19, 2025, 09:42:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:19:11 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.
Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.
Superb contest
Turkey shoot.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:50:25 PMQuote from: Rossfan on April 19, 2025, 09:42:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:19:11 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.
Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.
Insufferable - their default position is negative.
What do you expect? The game has been turned upside down. Traditionalists are never going to accept this. They've every right to moan.
It can be very entertaining, however it really is chaotic. I remember when I was young: the Harlem Globetrotters, Roller Derby and Wrestling were very entertaining. However no one considered them to be a serious sport.
Just because it's entertaining, just because the footballers can outscore the hurlers, doesn't mean it's the best thing for the game.
Quote from: EoinW on April 20, 2025, 12:34:40 AMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:50:25 PMQuote from: Rossfan on April 19, 2025, 09:42:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:19:11 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.
Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.
Insufferable - their default position is negative.
What do you expect? The game has been turned upside down. Traditionalists are never going to accept this. They've every right to moan.
It can be very entertaining, however it really is chaotic. I remember when I was young: the Harlem Globetrotters, Roller Derby and Wrestling were very entertaining. However no one considered them to be a serious sport.
Just because it's entertaining, just because the footballers can outscore the hurlers, doesn't mean it's the best thing for the game.
There actually is no debating with that level of negativity... traditionalists from what era? 70s was different from 80s and 90s.. the '00s was different again and probably the best... then came the steady decline of the game post 2010.
It was brilliant game.
You really thought wrestling and Harlem Globe Trotters was entertaining ? .. jees! 🤕 ...I don't know what Roller Derby is!!
It's been a tough weekend so far for the "football wasn't broken" contrarians.
They could really do with a blowout game today.
Super game last night.
Loving the tap and go especially. Speeds things up and now there's no player holding on to he ball after a free and then the silly wrestling starts.
I like the hooter also. Teams played on until the ball went dead. Easy for players and supporters to understand it. Adds to excitement a good bit if a team only 1pt down.
Great stuff in Cork last night.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:50:25 PMQuote from: Rossfan on April 19, 2025, 09:42:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 19, 2025, 09:19:11 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 19, 2025, 08:57:23 PMIs this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.
That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.
You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.
Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.
Insufferable - their default position is negative.
Had to listen to it for well over a decade. I'm sure you can manage listening to it for a bit as well
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2025, 09:11:27 AMIt's been a tough weekend so far for the "football wasn't broken" contrarians.
They could really do with a blowout game today.
I can see the Instant Gratification people will never get it. You know, the I'm bored, change the game or else crowd. It isn't about what happens on any given weekend. The big picture is the 130 year tradition.
Only one sport has ever done a major overhaul prior to this Gaelic football experiment. That was curling in the 1990s. It was forced to because changes in equipment and ice technology had made the game too defensive. The important thing is that Curling got it right. There was just one rule change(not dozens!) and it reestablished the balance between offence and defence.
In other words, if the FRC are going to make a major change to the game they had better know in advance what they are doing and they had better get it right. Yet they said from the get go that they'd try it out then tweek things. So they are flying blind. Thus it's no surprise we've gone from defence having an edge to no defence at all! They screwed it up and will have to make countless rule changes in the near future to try and reestablish some balance.
But the Bored Crowd were entertained yesterday so everything is just peachy.
One other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game. It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like. Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?
Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action. The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine. When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it. You see the problem? The FRC is picking winners and losers.
No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done. Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on. The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game. Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence. They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action. What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months. Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance. In other words, ruin the game.
I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong. Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right. I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.
The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes. Isn't that a slippery slope?
There is a bizarre yearning here to return to the game of chess foisted on us the last few years by coaches who don't care about Gaelic football, just their CVs. I suspect the critics are too proud to admit they were wrong and the game has been saved. Sup it up, we ain't going back...
Quote from: EoinW on April 20, 2025, 11:54:14 AMOne other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game. It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like. Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?
Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action. The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine. When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it. You see the problem? The FRC is picking winners and losers.
No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done. Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on. The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game. Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence. They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action. What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months. Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance. In other words, ruin the game.
I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong. Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right. I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.
The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes. Isn't that a slippery slope?
You have hit the nail on the head.
Few lads on here will lose their shit reading that factually correct post.
Quote from: flowerpot on April 20, 2025, 12:23:14 PMFew lads on here will lose their shit reading that factually correct post.
Only ones losing their shit is those bemoaning the positive changes to a game that coaches had destroyed. After a great day's football such a lament :'(
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 20, 2025, 12:38:40 PMQuote from: flowerpot on April 20, 2025, 12:23:14 PMFew lads on here will lose their shit reading that factually correct post.
Only ones losing their shit is those bemoaning the positive changes to a game that coaches had destroyed. After a great day's football such a lament :'(
Yeah. My opinion is it's better to play in and watch this year, compared to 5 years ago.
I just think the ball is in play more which means more action.
Quote from: marty34 on April 20, 2025, 12:41:46 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 20, 2025, 12:38:40 PMQuote from: flowerpot on April 20, 2025, 12:23:14 PMFew lads on here will lose their shit reading that factually correct post.
Only ones losing their shit is those bemoaning the positive changes to a game that coaches had destroyed. After a great day's football such a lament :'(
Yeah. My opinion is it's better to play in and watch this year, compared to 5 years ago.
I just think the ball is in play more which means more action.
I know of plenty players feel the same way.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 20, 2025, 12:08:59 PMQuote from: EoinW on April 20, 2025, 11:54:14 AMOne other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game. It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like. Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?
Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action. The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine. When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it. You see the problem? The FRC is picking winners and losers.
No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done. Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on. The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game. Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence. They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action. What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months. Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance. In other words, ruin the game.
I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong. Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right. I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.
The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes. Isn't that a slippery slope?
You have hit the nail on the head.
Man doesn't belong on here, he speaks too much sense
GAA has evolved over the years, it's not the same game 5 years ago to what it was 120 years
It's just this time instead of one or two changes it's 7 and we are only into the first year of it and first round of championship games..
There are positives and negatives
Let's see how it pans out
I'm neither in or out now considering the games I've done.
The word 'traditionalist' being a bit overcooked here... sounding like the Orange Order:
traditionalist
noun
plural noun: traditionalists
an advocate of maintaining tradition, especially so as to resist change.
Not sure what tradition they hark back to... the game pre-70s bore no resemblance to what the Dubs-Kerry went on to play and on and on it changed through the decades.. there have been massive rule changes down the years as well.
Admittedly this has been radical change in one go but by f** it was needed. The game had become an aberration. I never seen it in a worse state and that's going back a long time. Optimistic that's all behind us...
Surely people are free to have their own opinions without being told how to think?
If you love everything about the new rules that's your prerogative.
If you are more traditional in your views and would like to have seen less change then you are entitled to that opinion too.
How will football get to the stage that we see a packed ground like in Clare for the hurling today?
Because no matter how you think the rules are going the public are not turning up to watch.
Philly McMahon made a good point in his Indo column yesterday about the sameness of the games under the new rules – criss-crossing around the arc probing for an opening.
For many the 40m arc is a blight on the game and there was no need to change the scoring system.
EoinW made a very good post about the number of untested changes introduced by the FRC. Take a look at this weekend's match threads and note the range of discussions about the interpretation of these new rules.
Yes, there was a need to address problems with how the game has evolved in the past 10-15 years. I believe that the FRC should have focused on a small number of issues and made only a small number of changes, e.g. measures to limit handpassing, back-passing and introduction of a shot clock
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 20, 2025, 05:28:52 PMPhilly McMahon made a good point in his Indo column yesterday about the sameness of the games under the new rules – criss-crossing around the arc probing for an opening.
For many the 40m arc is a blight on the game and there was no need to change the scoring system.
EoinW made a very good post about the number of untested changes introduced by the FRC. Take a look at this weekend's match threads and note the range of discussions about the interpretation of these new rules.
Yes, there was a need to address problems with how the game has evolved in the past 10-15 years. I believe that the FRC should have focused on a small number of issues and made only a small number of changes, e.g. measures to limit handpassing, back-passing and introduction of a shot clock
The shot clock would be difficult for ref's I feel
Quote from: The Trap on April 20, 2025, 03:46:34 PMSurely people are free to have their own opinions without being told how to think?
If you love everything about the new rules that's your prerogative.
If you are more traditional in your views and would like to have seen less change then you are entitled to that opinion too.
How will football get to the stage that we see a packed ground like in Clare for the hurling today?
Because no matter how you think the rules are going the public are not turning up to watch.
Fair comments. Is an emotive issue. I think is tweaks needed still but def a huge improvement.
Don't think football will ever hit the level of the Munster hurling which is do or die with bottom 2 in league of 5 gone. Practically every game is epic. Not so much in Leinster till the quarter finals.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 20, 2025, 05:48:19 PMQuote from: The Trap on April 20, 2025, 03:46:34 PMSurely people are free to have their own opinions without being told how to think?
If you love everything about the new rules that's your prerogative.
If you are more traditional in your views and would like to have seen less change then you are entitled to that opinion too.
How will football get to the stage that we see a packed ground like in Clare for the hurling today?
Because no matter how you think the rules are going the public are not turning up to watch.
Fair comments. Is an emotive issue. I think is tweaks needed still but def a huge improvement.
Don't think football will ever hit the level of the Munster hurling which is do or die with bottom 2 in league of 5 gone. Practically every game is epic. Not so much in Leinster till the quarter finals.
Perfectly demonstrated today with 2 draws between 4 teams who could all realistically dream of winning the Liam McCarthy this year and 1 or possibly 2 aren't going past the group phase
Truthsayer you have been forceful in your comments and that is fine. As I said everyone entitled to feel how they want to.
What I would say to people who love the rules is try to understand there is another point of view.
The media have been very one sided and Irish people don't like being told how to think.
Yes some change was needed and I would say everyone could agree with that. But the amount of change needed is the debate!
Losing a large section of gaelic football followers because the powers that be may not be willing to compromise on the changes would be very detrimental for the game.
Choose a small amount of the changes and see how the game pans out over the next 5 years. Keeping them all for 5 years would be a big risk.
Quote from: The Trap on April 20, 2025, 05:59:00 PMTruthsayer you have been forceful in your comments and that is fine. As I said everyone entitled to feel how they want to.
What I would say to people who love the rules is try to understand there is another point of view.
The media have been very one sided and Irish people don't like being told how to think.
Yes some change was needed and I would say everyone could agree with that. But the amount of change needed is the debate!
Losing a large section of gaelic football followers because the powers that be may not be willing to compromise on the changes would be very detrimental for the game.
Choose a small amount of the changes and see how the game pans out over the next 5 years. Keeping them all for 5 years would be a big risk.
Are people not watching football because of the rules?
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 20, 2025, 05:48:19 PMQuote from: The Trap on April 20, 2025, 03:46:34 PMSurely people are free to have their own opinions without being told how to think?
If you love everything about the new rules that's your prerogative.
If you are more traditional in your views and would like to have seen less change then you are entitled to that opinion too.
How will football get to the stage that we see a packed ground like in Clare for the hurling today?
Because no matter how you think the rules are going the public are not turning up to watch.
Fair comments. Is an emotive issue. I think is tweaks needed still but def a huge improvement.
Don't think football will ever hit the level of the Munster hurling which is do or die with bottom 2 in league of 5 gone. Practically every game is epic. Not so much in Leinster till the quarter finals.
You're the one slabbering away about anyone who dares to think Jim Gavin ain't the Messiah, here to save the people from their footballing sins.
Quote from: The Trap on April 20, 2025, 05:59:00 PMTruthsayer you have been forceful in your comments and that is fine. As I said everyone entitled to feel how they want to.
What I would say to people who love the rules is try to understand there is another point of view.
The media have been very one sided and Irish people don't like being told how to think.
Yes some change was needed and I would say everyone could agree with that. But the amount of change needed is the debate!
Losing a large section of gaelic football followers because the powers that be may not be willing to compromise on the changes would be very detrimental for the game.
Choose a small amount of the changes and see how the game pans out over the next 5 years. Keeping them all for 5 years would be a big risk.
Thank you for the reasonable comments. It is hard to believe sometime but we are all on the same side. Thus my first concern with these massive changes is how divisive it is within the GAA community.
I've another concern, which relates to my general distrust of the GAA. It was touched on by the poster who mentioned the full house at Clare today and how Gaelic football can't draw that kind of support. I'd point out the game in Cork and how, even against Kerry, it was a rather empty stadium. When the Cork hurlers come home there won't be an empty seat in the place.
To be fair, I'm using Munster as an example and it is a hurling province. Is attendance falling off in the football provinces too? It makes me wonder if this rules overhaul isn't simply an act of desperation.
What really troubles me is that numerous smaller counties have seen their championship season end and it isn't even May! They're dropped into a tier two championship that no one really cares about. At least the backdoor system gave them a second chance and the opportunity of playing numerous championship games.
Why should anyone from Antrim or Sligo care about football when their county is being treated second class? It must be really annoying to see their season shortened so you can have the Round of 16, which gives Dublin and Kerry three extra games. How about putting the Wicklow or Fermanagh footballers on RTE 3 times this summer and see if that boosts football interest in those counties.
The strong get stronger and the weak get weaker. This is my problem with the GAA. If they aren't going to treat each county as an equal and give them a fair chance in the championship, then how can one trust the GAA's motives on anything - like the rule changes?
You said numerous games in the back door, if you're put out in the next match it's just one game you get, hardly numerous, with the second tier they get another set of games. But sure you knew that..
Teams like Antrim are not in a position to be in the Sam Maguire, not good enough, they need to (like others) earn that by getting up through the leagues and performing better in Ulster or whatever province they are from
Quote from: gallsman on April 20, 2025, 06:31:19 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 20, 2025, 05:48:19 PMQuote from: The Trap on April 20, 2025, 03:46:34 PMSurely people are free to have their own opinions without being told how to think?
If you love everything about the new rules that's your prerogative.
If you are more traditional in your views and would like to have seen less change then you are entitled to that opinion too.
How will football get to the stage that we see a packed ground like in Clare for the hurling today?
Because no matter how you think the rules are going the public are not turning up to watch.
Fair comments. Is an emotive issue. I think is tweaks needed still but def a huge improvement.
Don't think football will ever hit the level of the Munster hurling which is do or die with bottom 2 in league of 5 gone. Practically every game is epic. Not so much in Leinster till the quarter finals.
You're the one slabbering away about anyone who dares to think Jim Gavin ain't the Messiah, here to save the people from their footballing sins.
Ooh you're hard :o
You see that's my point. We can't all be falling out with eachother.
I have seen it in my own friends groups, some people think the rules are class. But when you critique them they agree some don't work.
So to me the only solution is to have some sort of compromise.
I know there's a speed of sound issue there but it sounds like the sideline was kicked before the hooter went. Very tight
Sorry wrong thread
I thought the ball was in the air too.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2025, 10:50:45 PMI know there's a speed of sound issue there but it sounds like the sideline was kicked before the hooter went. Very tight
Sorry wrong thread
Looked like a backroom team member got in his way when about to kick.
I thought it was one of Donegal's, but it was his own!
Quote from: EoinW on April 20, 2025, 11:54:14 AMOne other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game. It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like. Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?
Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action. The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine. When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it. You see the problem? The FRC is picking winners and losers.
No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done. Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on. The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game. Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence. They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action. What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months. Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance. In other words, ruin the game.
I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong. Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right. I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.
The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes. Isn't that a slippery slope?
The FRC was given a remit to make gaelic football the best amateur sport in the world to watch and play.
There are fairly rigorous governance structures in place which all the new rules had to progress through and a lesser process for subsequent tweaks.
The reason why there has been such a radical overhaul of rules all at once is because of the very strict timelines imposed by Congress on the trialling of new rules.
New rules can only be introduced once every 5 years. These trial rules which were approved by special congress last October are in place until October this year. Congress (or special congress) will vote on the final package, it is probable that what we see now will see significant amendment before a final package of changes is agreed. I don't agree that the FRC is picking winners and losers based on geographical bias, if you look at the membership, there's balanced representation from all regions and indeed the gaa president who instigated the review is an Armagh man. They are reacting to feedback and statistical evidence.
They have a statistical unit analysing a large number of games from this year and comparing versus previous year's data (I believe this unit is led by a Derry man?).
The data and the feedback from their ongoing public surveys has shaped the initial proposals and the subsequent tweaks. My understanding is that no more tweaks are proposed prior to the final package being agreed for the October vote.
If we really want to shape the decisions then I think it's important to complete the feedback surveys on an ongoing basis (it's not a one and done thing and remains open) and probably more importantly, make sure that your county's delegates to the October vote understand your county's position and can articulate that position in a manner that can influence delegates.
Quote from: onefineday on April 21, 2025, 08:13:17 AMQuote from: EoinW on April 20, 2025, 11:54:14 AMOne other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game. It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like. Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?
Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action. The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine. When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it. You see the problem? The FRC is picking winners and losers.
No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done. Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on. The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game. Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence. They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action. What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months. Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance. In other words, ruin the game.
I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong. Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right. I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.
The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes. Isn't that a slippery slope?
The FRC was given a remit to make gaelic football the best amateur sport in the world to watch and play.
There are fairly rigorous governance structures in place which all the new rules had to progress through and a lesser process for subsequent tweaks.
The reason why there has been such a radical overhaul of rules all at once is because of the very strict timelines imposed by Congress on the trialling of new rules.
New rules can only be introduced once every 5 years. These trial rules which were approved by special congress last October are in place until October this year. Congress (or special congress) will vote on the final package, it is probable that what we see now will see significant amendment before a final package of changes is agreed. I don't agree that the FRC is picking winners and losers based on geographical bias, if you look at the membership, there's balanced representation from all regions and indeed the gaa president who instigated the review is an Armagh man. They are reacting to feedback and statistical evidence.
They have a statistical unit analysing a large number of games from this year and comparing versus previous year's data (I believe this unit is led by a Derry man?).
The data and the feedback from their ongoing public surveys has shaped the initial proposals and the subsequent tweaks. My understanding is that no more tweaks are proposed prior to the final package being agreed for the October vote.
If we really want to shape the decisions then I think it's important to complete the feedback surveys on an ongoing basis (it's not a one and done thing and remains open) and probably more importantly, make sure that your county's delegates to the October vote understand your county's position and can articulate that position in a manner that can influence delegates.
Up Derry!
@ Eoin, "both organisations have one goal.....ruin the game."
Really?
Rules need tweaking and 1 major one (long lottery kickouts) scrapped, but it's a much much better spectacle atm imo... I've started watching more games again, the last 10 years it was only really games I had an emotional attachment to
Quote from: EoinW on April 20, 2025, 11:54:14 AMThe National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game. Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence. They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action. What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months. Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance.
Just on that nfl point, yes changes are made on an ongoing basis to make the game more attractive to watch (that's sort of the rationale behind spectator sports), but to say the balance is gone in nfl would be a massive misstatement. The old adage about defence winning titles is as true today as it was 50 years ago. The last two Superbowl winners have been first or thereabouts in total defence, whilst barely breaking into the top 10 in offence.
QuoteOne other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game. It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like. Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?
The GAA rules process has never been more democratic and more open to taking feedback and input from everyone.
I'm nearly sure it was close enough to 10,000 individuals responsed to the initial surveys.
The whole survey and feedback process has meant that the FRC have verifiable evidence that the majority of those interested enough in the rules of the game to bother filling out their shortish surveys have been massively in favour of the rule changes.
QuoteWhat really troubles me is that numerous smaller counties have seen their championship season end and it isn't even May! They're dropped into a tier two championship that no one really cares about. At least the backdoor system gave them a second chance and the opportunity of playing numerous championship games.
The fact that the players from the counties actually involved in the Tailteann Cup were massively in favour of it when it was introduced and I haven't seen any calls whatsoever for a return to the old backdoor championship structure leads me to believe that this shouldn't be something troubling you at all. Players might have some grumbles about the ins-and-outs of various details about the Tailteann Cup (the lack of promotion is a big one) but literally none of the ones I've talked to have every indicated any interest in going back to the old system. Any chat I've heard the last few years from players in the Tailteann Cup about championship structures has pretty much all been moaning about the provincial championships. I think if the GAA actually tried to switch back to the old championship structure you would have an absolute tidal wave of players coming out protesting it.
I think the 3 up and tap and go are great.
Some of the more finicky rules frustrate people eg the 4m after the mark.
I know all the giving out about the 50m bit it has sped the game up.
Maybe 20m is a fairer punishment though.
I thought the 2 pointer would pull teams out to the edges of the D and allow more goal chances but not really happening.
It could go and the arc in general for kickouts is up for debate. If you can't pass it back to the keeper forwards can press and force it long anyways.
Quote from: onefineday on April 21, 2025, 08:13:17 AMQuote from: EoinW on April 20, 2025, 11:54:14 AMOne other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game. It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like. Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?
Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action. The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine. When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it. You see the problem? The FRC is picking winners and losers.
No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done. Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on. The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game. Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence. They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action. What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months. Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance. In other words, ruin the game.
I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong. Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right. I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.
The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes. Isn't that a slippery slope?
The FRC was given a remit to make gaelic football the best amateur sport in the world to watch and play.
There are fairly rigorous governance structures in place which all the new rules had to progress through and a lesser process for subsequent tweaks.
The reason why there has been such a radical overhaul of rules all at once is because of the very strict timelines imposed by Congress on the trialling of new rules.
New rules can only be introduced once every 5 years. These trial rules which were approved by special congress last October are in place until October this year. Congress (or special congress) will vote on the final package, it is probable that what we see now will see significant amendment before a final package of changes is agreed. I don't agree that the FRC is picking winners and losers based on geographical bias, if you look at the membership, there's balanced representation from all regions and indeed the gaa president who instigated the review is an Armagh man. They are reacting to feedback and statistical evidence.
They have a statistical unit analysing a large number of games from this year and comparing versus previous year's data (I believe this unit is led by a Derry man?).
The data and the feedback from their ongoing public surveys has shaped the initial proposals and the subsequent tweaks. My understanding is that no more tweaks are proposed prior to the final package being agreed for the October vote.
If we really want to shape the decisions then I think it's important to complete the feedback surveys on an ongoing basis (it's not a one and done thing and remains open) and probably more importantly, make sure that your county's delegates to the October vote understand your county's position and can articulate that position in a manner that can influence delegates.
Thank you for clarifying the situation.
Quote from: JoG2 on April 21, 2025, 09:28:42 AMQuote from: onefineday on April 21, 2025, 08:13:17 AMQuote from: EoinW on April 20, 2025, 11:54:14 AMOne other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game. It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like. Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?
Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action. The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine. When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it. You see the problem? The FRC is picking winners and losers.
No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done. Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on. The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game. Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence. They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action. What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months. Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance. In other words, ruin the game.
I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong. Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right. I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.
The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes. Isn't that a slippery slope?
The FRC was given a remit to make gaelic football the best amateur sport in the world to watch and play.
There are fairly rigorous governance structures in place which all the new rules had to progress through and a lesser process for subsequent tweaks.
The reason why there has been such a radical overhaul of rules all at once is because of the very strict timelines imposed by Congress on the trialling of new rules.
New rules can only be introduced once every 5 years. These trial rules which were approved by special congress last October are in place until October this year. Congress (or special congress) will vote on the final package, it is probable that what we see now will see significant amendment before a final package of changes is agreed. I don't agree that the FRC is picking winners and losers based on geographical bias, if you look at the membership, there's balanced representation from all regions and indeed the gaa president who instigated the review is an Armagh man. They are reacting to feedback and statistical evidence.
They have a statistical unit analysing a large number of games from this year and comparing versus previous year's data (I believe this unit is led by a Derry man?).
The data and the feedback from their ongoing public surveys has shaped the initial proposals and the subsequent tweaks. My understanding is that no more tweaks are proposed prior to the final package being agreed for the October vote.
If we really want to shape the decisions then I think it's important to complete the feedback surveys on an ongoing basis (it's not a one and done thing and remains open) and probably more importantly, make sure that your county's delegates to the October vote understand your county's position and can articulate that position in a manner that can influence delegates.
Up Derry!
@ Eoin, "both organisations have one goal.....ruin the game."
Really?
Rules need tweaking and 1 major one (long lottery kickouts) scrapped, but it's a much much better spectacle atm imo... I've started watching more games again, the last 10 years it was only really games I had an emotional attachment to
You're quoting me out of context. If offence/defence balance is lost then it can ruin the game.
That aside, I agree with you that the 50/50 kickouts are disturbing. Every game seems to have moments in which one team can't get possession and get scored on multiple times.
I also don't like the 2 point rule. As I've warned in the past, I believe it will eventually lead to every team structuring their offence around it. For now managers are stuck in their old ways. They will regain a certain amount of control eventually.
Which gets back to the lack of defence. The games are more action packed because there is little defence. Managers have not yet figured out ways to defend the new rules. In fact I've seen limited innovation from any of them. They can't even figure out a ball possession system to make the short kick outs work.
Perhaps one must give it time. Managers will figure out how to defend the new rules and you'll have balance again. It's all new ground. Only natural for any fan who enjoyed the 2024 version to be uncomfortable. Those who hated the 2024 version already felt they'd lost the game so they have nothing to lose by changing everything.
People are being too dramatic either way, one man's view on kick outs varies to the next and so on..
I'm my opinion football very rarely hit any great heights till the latter stages.. that's club football too, a game broke out in the last ten minutes.
I measured a senior game in terms of distance travelled for me as a ref, normally in a good up and down game you could be getting close to 4 miles, this one game was 2.7 miles, if that was what people were wanting or coaching it was wrong. Some people like that, not sure why.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2025, 12:21:29 PMPeople are being too dramatic either way, one man's view on kick outs varies to the next and so on..
I'm my opinion football very rarely hit any great heights till the latter stages.. that's club football too, a game broke out in the last ten minutes.
I measured a senior game in terms of distance travelled for me as a ref, normally in a good up and down game you could be getting close to 4 miles, this one game was 2.7 miles, if that was what people were wanting or coaching it was wrong. Some people like that, not sure why.
Best era I saw of football was 2000 decade (and i recall back to '70s) ... I remember many games were enthralling throughout.. involving Dublin-Kerry-Tyrone-Armagh-Mayo.. even Sligo and Donegal. Ulster final 2003 Tyrone-Down draw was a thriller long before the last few minutes.. I think is more recent where nothing happens for 65 minutes and then is bedlam and excitmemt for last 5 and maybe 5 injury time..
I can't understand the point that if teams have a bad midfield we have to bring back the old rules.
What next?
Abolish goals because some teams don't score any?
I'm well aware we have a poor midfield but changing kick out rules is not the answer.
Up to our management to try and remedy it.
Seen highlights of Munster and Ulster semis. Alot of times , no forwards near the goal mouth at all
Maybe they should bring in 2 pointers for points nearer the goal, rather than 50+ yards
Might bring the play , and a bit of excitement, closer to the goals, which is what we want to see , is it not?
This current 2 pointer lark is a huge backward step for the game.
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 21, 2025, 01:19:25 PMSeen highlights of Munster and Ulster semis. Alot of times , no forwards near the goal mouth at all
Maybe they should bring in 2 pointers for points nearer the goal, rather than 50+ yards
Might bring the play , and a bit of excitement, closer to the goals, which is what we want to see , is it not?
This current 2 pointer lark is a huge backward step for the game.
Did you not think the Cork-Kerry game was exciting? It was a thriller. And the Ulster games had plenty too..
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2025, 09:11:27 AMIt's been a tough weekend so far for the "football wasn't broken" contrarians.
They could really do with a blowout game today.
Another tough weekend for themmuns. It looks like they're gonna need an entertainment implosion when Croke starts going to get used.
In Louth v Kildare the hooter went and the Louth man booted over the end line.
Everyone thought that was that, but it was a 45. Then it was taken and resulted in another 45.
Eventually Kildare hit it wide and game over.
What's the story there?
When the ball goes for a 45 after the hooter sounds, it's take the 45 and play on.
Somewhat bizarrely, if the ball went for a 45 and then the hooter sounded, the only option is for the 45 to be taken and scored from directly - no other player can touch the ball.
Same applies to penalties. Bit bizarre, feels like they should be there other way around to me.
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 21, 2025, 01:19:25 PMSeen highlights of Munster and Ulster semis. Alot of times , no forwards near the goal mouth at all
Maybe they should bring in 2 pointers for points nearer the goal, rather than 50+ yards
Might bring the play , and a bit of excitement, closer to the goals, which is what we want to see , is it not?
This current 2 pointer lark is a huge backward step for the game.
Its obviously going to split opinion and while I'm a traditionalist and think the 2 pointer is somewhat overpowered, it has played its part in teams coming back from behind rapidly, overall I think its worth retaining for the simple fact that prodigiously talented footballers are now given an incentive to showcase that talent than go side to side forever and a day. Its not perfect but its better than before
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2025, 10:06:51 AMWhen the ball goes for a 45 after the hooter sounds, it's take the 45 and play on.
Somewhat bizarrely, if the ball went for a 45 and then the hooter sounded, the only option is for the 45 to be taken and scored from directly - no other player can touch the ball.
Same applies to penalties. Bit bizarre, feels like they should be there other way around to me.
Is that right? I tried looking at the rule book there but can't find anything on it either way. Seems nonsensical
Quote from: tiempo on April 28, 2025, 10:56:33 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on April 21, 2025, 01:19:25 PMSeen highlights of Munster and Ulster semis. Alot of times , no forwards near the goal mouth at all
Maybe they should bring in 2 pointers for points nearer the goal, rather than 50+ yards
Might bring the play , and a bit of excitement, closer to the goals, which is what we want to see , is it not?
This current 2 pointer lark is a huge backward step for the game.
Its obviously going to split opinion and while I'm a traditionalist and think the 2 pointer is somewhat overpowered, it has played its part in teams coming back from behind rapidly, overall I think its worth retaining for the simple fact that prodigiously talented footballers are now given an incentive to showcase that talent than go side to side forever and a day. Its not perfect but its better than before
For some reason the 21st century sporting mind equates more points to mean more excitement. Thus we see this obsession to create more scoring in all sports.
The Dublin-Meath game displayed the flaws in the 2 point idea. How does #14 and #15 playing 45 meters from goal benefit the game?
I'll concede the games have been very entertaining. I can live with most of the rule changes. Just lose the 2 pointer. It really doesn't work at all on a windy day. Plus I don't think artificially inflating scoring should be the objective.
Quote from: EoinW on April 29, 2025, 07:07:10 PMQuote from: tiempo on April 28, 2025, 10:56:33 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on April 21, 2025, 01:19:25 PMSeen highlights of Munster and Ulster semis. Alot of times , no forwards near the goal mouth at all
Maybe they should bring in 2 pointers for points nearer the goal, rather than 50+ yards
Might bring the play , and a bit of excitement, closer to the goals, which is what we want to see , is it not?
This current 2 pointer lark is a huge backward step for the game.
Its obviously going to split opinion and while I'm a traditionalist and think the 2 pointer is somewhat overpowered, it has played its part in teams coming back from behind rapidly, overall I think its worth retaining for the simple fact that prodigiously talented footballers are now given an incentive to showcase that talent than go side to side forever and a day. Its not perfect but its better than before
For some reason the 21st century sporting mind equates more points to mean more excitement. Thus we see this obsession to create more scoring in all sports.
The Dublin-Meath game displayed the flaws in the 2 point idea. How does #14 and #15 playing 45 meters from goal benefit the game?
I'll concede the games have been very entertaining. I can live with most of the rule changes. Just lose the 2 pointer. It really doesn't work at all on a windy day. Plus I don't think artificially inflating scoring should be the objective.
I don't think that first paragraph is true in the slightest.
What people, I believe, do not want to watch is over coached robots shadow boxing their way through a contest of who can make the fewest mistakes.
That's where we were.
The solution to that problem is to make taking a risk a more attractive proposition than ball retention. The 2 pointer is one of a raft of changes designed to do exactly this.
Naturally we are going to have higher scoring games when more risks are taken.
But I do believe you're confusing symptoms and diagnosis.
Has the two pointer resulted in more scores per game or a higher total score?
And does it lead to more risk? There is still passing along the 45 waiting for space to open up or for someone to take a 2 point shot. There is little risk hitting a 2 point shot wide since the kick out can be pressured and if it falls short you can 'create' a goal chance with a bit of chaos. I'm not convinced it adds anything given the other changed especially 4 back.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 29, 2025, 07:22:57 PMQuote from: EoinW on April 29, 2025, 07:07:10 PMQuote from: tiempo on April 28, 2025, 10:56:33 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on April 21, 2025, 01:19:25 PMSeen highlights of Munster and Ulster semis. Alot of times , no forwards near the goal mouth at all
Maybe they should bring in 2 pointers for points nearer the goal, rather than 50+ yards
Might bring the play , and a bit of excitement, closer to the goals, which is what we want to see , is it not?
This current 2 pointer lark is a huge backward step for the game.
Its obviously going to split opinion and while I'm a traditionalist and think the 2 pointer is somewhat overpowered, it has played its part in teams coming back from behind rapidly, overall I think its worth retaining for the simple fact that prodigiously talented footballers are now given an incentive to showcase that talent than go side to side forever and a day. Its not perfect but its better than before
For some reason the 21st century sporting mind equates more points to mean more excitement. Thus we see this obsession to create more scoring in all sports.
The Dublin-Meath game displayed the flaws in the 2 point idea. How does #14 and #15 playing 45 meters from goal benefit the game?
I'll concede the games have been very entertaining. I can live with most of the rule changes. Just lose the 2 pointer. It really doesn't work at all on a windy day. Plus I don't think artificially inflating scoring should be the objective.
I don't think that first paragraph is true in the slightest.
What people, I believe, do not want to watch is over coached robots shadow boxing their way through a contest of who can make the fewest mistakes.
That's where we were.
The solution to that problem is to make taking a risk a more attractive proposition than ball retention. The 2 pointer is one of a raft of changes designed to do exactly this.
Naturally we are going to have higher scoring games when more risks are taken.
But I do believe you're confusing symptoms and diagnosis.
I suspect our sporting background is different. Mine is North American and in every sport over here - baseball, basketball, football and hockey - rule changes to create more scoring have been going on for decades. I won't bore you with details.
I 100% agree with you on the over-coaching issue. I've seen a sport(box lacrosse) ruined by it. For some cultural reason we got away from the "throw the ball on the pitch and let the players go at it" to control freak coaches/managers manipulating every action of every player. We're never going back to the old way, therefore the FRC was right to address this issue.
Yes I was wrong but simply guilty of enjoying football in 2024 and taking an "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" attitude. For lifetime fans, such as the knowledgeable posters here, it was broken and they seem to have done a fine job fixing that. I'll defer to your opinions on that one.
I disagree with you on the 2 pointer for the simple reason that you are wrong about risk. Four players recycling the ball outside the arc, waiting for the opening to take a shot, has almost zero risk. Moving the ball inside to attempt a goal is high risk. As it only gives one extra point, why take that risk at all?
It is interesting to observe how managers are still "all at sea" when it comes to the new rules. I'm disturbed by the lack of defence, also by the teams inability to win their kick outs, however I expect managers to eventually get on top of these problems. They will do what they can to retake control. It does take time though.
However I stand by my earlier prediction that the 2 pointer will eventually create more problems than positives for the game. The 3 point shot changed NCAA college basketball completely(and not for the better). It took a decade for the impact to really hit and by that time the 3 pointer was so established they didn't dare get rid of it. I'd hate to see the GAA make the same mistake with its 2 pointer.
Two things I can predict with confidence(though I can't say how long before managers adjust) are:
1) games will turn into 2 point shooting contests, with hardly any attempts at goal because it's not worth risking the turnover.
2) teams will begin to defend leads by "taking the air out of the ball". They'll play the possession game, especially when going into a strong wind or when a man down(black/red card situation). Maybe not to the Dean Smith "Four Corner Offence" extreme but who knows.
Banning the 2 pointer after this season will avoid these future problems.
The kickout rule has only marginally improved the aesthetics of the game. How many clean kickout catches are there in a game? Mainly just a melee of bodies looking to break the ball or scrimmage for it.
Still better than the 90% short kickouts but the arched kickout catch are as rare as ever.
Also, when it does occur the solo and go somehow detracts from it.
Quote from: EoinW on April 30, 2025, 12:09:25 PMI disagree with you on the 2 pointer for the simple reason that you are wrong about risk. Four players recycling the ball outside the arc, waiting for the opening to take a shot, has almost zero risk. Moving the ball inside to attempt a goal is high risk. As it only gives one extra point, why take that risk at all?
Absolutely spot on Eoin, simple maths dictates that 2 pointers are the way forward. They have the best expected value and probably many multiples of the expected value of a goal. Now I appreciate that for some people there is a beauty to the long range point, but for me, there's nothing like a goal or two to really get me invested in the game. It often takes real moments of skill or individual brilliance and sends a roar through a crowd that no point can. Is the two pointer the end for the old saying "take your points and the goals will come".
Quote from: blanketattack on April 30, 2025, 05:06:09 PMThe kickout rule has only marginally improved the aesthetics of the game. How many clean kickout catches are there in a game? Mainly just a melee of bodies looking to break the ball or scrimmage for it.
Still better than the 90% short kickouts but the arched kickout catch are as rare as ever.
Also, when it does occur the solo and go somehow detracts from it.
The solo and go isn't part of a clean catch in midfield (a mark)
the advanced mark is honestly terrible, only really seen It last night for the first time. plater caught the ball laid it off and fella hit a shot keeper made a class save and it gets brought back for a tap over free because someone caught a ball clean? come on thats not football
Quote from: onefineday on May 01, 2025, 12:48:24 AMQuote from: EoinW on April 30, 2025, 12:09:25 PMI disagree with you on the 2 pointer for the simple reason that you are wrong about risk. Four players recycling the ball outside the arc, waiting for the opening to take a shot, has almost zero risk. Moving the ball inside to attempt a goal is high risk. As it only gives one extra point, why take that risk at all?
Absolutely spot on Eoin, simple maths dictates that 2 pointers are the way forward. They have the best expected value and probably many multiples of the expected value of a goal. Now I appreciate that for some people there is a beauty to the long range point, but for me, there's nothing like a goal or two to really get me invested in the game. It often takes real moments of skill or individual brilliance and sends a roar through a crowd that no point can. Is the two pointer the end for the old saying "take your points and the goals will come".
100% agree with both posts.
The 2pt scores devalue a goal now which actually discourages the long kick in, part of what they wanted to encourage.
Anyone able to point me to any formal definition of "Disruptive Conduct"? The words appear frequently enough in the Official Guide but I can't find any actual definition anywhere.
Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2025, 01:55:30 PMAnyone able to point me to any formal definition of "Disruptive Conduct"? The words appear frequently enough in the Official Guide but I can't find any actual definition anywhere.
Asking questions like that.
;D ;D ;D
Very good in fairness.
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on May 01, 2025, 09:56:42 AMthe advanced mark is honestly terrible, only really seen It last night for the first time. plater caught the ball laid it off and fella hit a shot keeper made a class save and it gets brought back for a tap over free because someone caught a ball clean? come on thats not football
It is indeed a ludicrous rule - I still remember the look of bafflement on donnacha Gilmore's face when he fisted wide v Kerry, only for the ref to try and explain that he now gets another try!!
Derry did try and take advantage of it a few times in later games and maybe it's the potential antidote to the 2 point rule - but no, just get rid of both.
Quote from: onefineday on May 02, 2025, 01:38:44 AMQuote from: Saffron_sam20 on May 01, 2025, 09:56:42 AMthe advanced mark is honestly terrible, only really seen It last night for the first time. plater caught the ball laid it off and fella hit a shot keeper made a class save and it gets brought back for a tap over free because someone caught a ball clean? come on thats not football
It is indeed a ludicrous rule - I still remember the look of bafflement on donnacha Gilmore's face when he fisted wide v Kerry, only for the ref to try and explain that he now gets another try!!
Derry did try and take advantage of it a few times in later games and maybe it's the potential antidote to the 2 point rule - but no, just get rid of both.
With the advanced mark it's baffling why players don't go for goal 100% of the time. Have seen players fist the ball over when they had won advanced mark in a simple tap-over position.
Likewise when a player has won a free in a quite easy position and the ref plays advantage, should go for a 2 pointer (or a goal) 100% of the time and if unsuccessful take the 1 pointer.
See with the forward mark, does the player who caught the mark have to take the free himself after they have played on but referee has deemed no advantage accrued and brings it back to the original mark position?
Back in February we were told by Ulster Council official and referees that if ref decided no advantage had come of the mark after playing on, that anyone could then take the free from the original mark position. I thought this was still the case, but was told otherwise last night.
Quote from: on the sideline on May 02, 2025, 04:26:36 PMSee with the forward mark, does the player who caught the mark have to take the free himself after they have played on but referee has deemed no advantage accrued and brings it back to the original mark position?
Back in February we were told by Ulster Council official and referees that if ref decided no advantage had come of the mark after playing on, that anyone could then take the free from the original mark position. I thought this was still the case, but was told otherwise last night.
Look pal, just do whatever the ref tells you and for the love of God don't question it.
Thats the new rule.
Quote from: trileacman on May 03, 2025, 12:00:53 AMQuote from: on the sideline on May 02, 2025, 04:26:36 PMSee with the forward mark, does the player who caught the mark have to take the free himself after they have played on but referee has deemed no advantage accrued and brings it back to the original mark position?
Back in February we were told by Ulster Council official and referees that if ref decided no advantage had come of the mark after playing on, that anyone could then take the free from the original mark position. I thought this was still the case, but was told otherwise last night.
Look pal, just do whatever the ref tells you and for the love of God don't question it.
Thats the new rule.
Telling people that for years.. but hey ho
Is it true that refs have a secret society and they meet up now and again in a dingy hall and drink beer from cans and laugh about how they've fcuked people over?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2025, 08:19:46 AMQuote from: trileacman on May 03, 2025, 12:00:53 AMQuote from: on the sideline on May 02, 2025, 04:26:36 PMSee with the forward mark, does the player who caught the mark have to take the free himself after they have played on but referee has deemed no advantage accrued and brings it back to the original mark position?
Back in February we were told by Ulster Council official and referees that if ref decided no advantage had come of the mark after playing on, that anyone could then take the free from the original mark position. I thought this was still the case, but was told otherwise last night.
Look pal, just do whatever the ref tells you and for the love of God don't question it.
Thats the new rule.
Telling people that for years.. but hey ho
We had a game last night where the referee allowed the oppostion to bounce and go twice. When our captain said to him it has to be a solo he told him to go away
Refereeing isn't easy and this latest swathe of new rules make an arduous task even more challenging for club referees. We had an opposition player throw the ball at one of our men (instead of solo and go, he half threw/half hopped it against our guy's knee) and the referee moved it in.
Quote from: Nanderson on May 03, 2025, 10:25:43 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2025, 08:19:46 AMQuote from: trileacman on May 03, 2025, 12:00:53 AMQuote from: on the sideline on May 02, 2025, 04:26:36 PMSee with the forward mark, does the player who caught the mark have to take the free himself after they have played on but referee has deemed no advantage accrued and brings it back to the original mark position?
Back in February we were told by Ulster Council official and referees that if ref decided no advantage had come of the mark after playing on, that anyone could then take the free from the original mark position. I thought this was still the case, but was told otherwise last night.
Look pal, just do whatever the ref tells you and for the love of God don't question it.
Thats the new rule.
Telling people that for years.. but hey ho
We had a game last night where the referee allowed the oppostion to bounce and go twice. When our captain said to him it has to be a solo he told him to go away
He was wrong, you balls up the solo and go it comes back for a free.. look I did something the other week, we questioned whether it was correct or not and both (one an All Ireland final referee) gave different answers
There's still some people somewhere who prefer old football.
Ah well.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 04, 2025, 05:43:52 PMThere's still some people somewhere who prefer old football.
Ah well.
Yes and understandably so. That game was interesting for about 10 minutes.
I thought last years final was better.
I'd say the David lad would love chess!
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2025, 06:45:04 PMI'd say the David lad would love chess!
Not particularly
So many commentators saying some of these rules are going to cause major controversy when the stakes get higher.
When does that happen?
League not important enough?
Provincial games not important enough?
Even provincial finals not important enough??
So just go back? Mid stream?
No can't go back now but hopefully sense prevails at the end of the year and only a few of the new rules are maintained for a 5 year period.
Quote from: The Trap on May 06, 2025, 09:03:57 PMNo can't go back now but hopefully sense prevails at the end of the year and only a few of the new rules are maintained for a 5 year period.
Will we need an asterisk beside the 2025 AI and Tailteann winners?
In the bad old days could the ref not dish out a yellow card for dissent or any form of abuse thrown his way?
Quote from: Main Street on May 07, 2025, 08:45:17 PMIn the bad old days could the ref not dish out a yellow card for dissent or any form of abuse thrown his way?
Yes, and still do
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 07, 2025, 09:27:08 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 07, 2025, 08:45:17 PMIn the bad old days could the ref not dish out a yellow card for dissent or any form of abuse thrown his way?
Yes, and still do
In the main the ball is just moved forward a zillion metres with no yellow card. In the past were refs shy to dish out a yellow for dissent therefore the idea of moving the ball forward took root?
Quote from: Main Street on May 07, 2025, 09:54:04 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 07, 2025, 09:27:08 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 07, 2025, 08:45:17 PMIn the bad old days could the ref not dish out a yellow card for dissent or any form of abuse thrown his way?
Yes, and still do
In the main the ball is just moved forward a zillion metres with no yellow card. In the past were refs shy to dish out a yellow for dissent therefore the idea of moving the ball forward took root?
Not really, there was a higher bar for the dissent I suppose to get a yellow, now the 50m makes it simple and if they give dissent after the 50m you give a yellow..
I personally explain my reasoning and if they continue to complain I'll move it.
The vigour with which the refs are running up the field because some big bad player said ffs or the likes out of frustration is truly pathetic to watch.
As for someone not on the field of play kicking a flag - hope Gough has had the relevant counselling by the GAA to get over that one, after his assessment of course to say he had a terrific game.::)
I'm confused here, either you want the rules applied or you don't, like them or loath them they are there..
But in your world its ok for a player to give abuse to the referee
And in your world it's ok for a ref to act the ballbag and potentially decide a match because players and management are normal humans with normal emotions who may get frustrated and vent out loud or kick a flag, abuse my hole away and wrap yourself in bubble wrap.
It might help if refs applied the rules correctly, depending on who you get the rules are applied differently, even the same ref in the same game can't apply the rules consistently - but it's all the players fault! Oh sorry they get assessed that's right!
Have you heard of the term, "devil's advocate"? It is where someone argues against their own thoughts, processes, or conclusions as a way of testing and improving their thoughts. It is a way of thinking or arguing to expose any flaws in your own thoughts and arguments
Woukd Pot like games to be played without Refs?
Quote from: flowerpot on May 08, 2025, 12:21:11 PMAnd in your world it's ok for a ref to act the ballbag and potentially decide a match because players and management are normal humans with normal emotions who may get frustrated and vent out loud or kick a flag, abuse my hole away and wrap yourself in bubble wrap.
It's no wonder they can't get referees anymore when there's people like this.
To have to listen to abuse from ill informed idiots on the sideline/crowd who only have a vague grasp on the intricacies of rules and what is/isn't a card.
Couldn't pay me to do it.
In this instance, I think both MR2 and Pot are right!
100% agree the ref should not be subjected to the abuse we've seen in the past, and I've no issue with the 50m rule to cut it out.
However, at the very least, a referee within a single game should be able to apply the rules consistently throughout that game.
Ideally, all refs should be consistent across all games, but difficult to see that happening.
This lack of consistency is what frustrates people more than anything and often results in that frustration boiling over. The 50m rule will help control that frustration and referee abuse, but it does nothing for resolving the issue of some really inept referees.
Quote from: flowerpot on May 08, 2025, 12:25:18 PMIt might help if refs applied the rules correctly, depending on who you get the rules are applied differently, even the same ref in the same game can't apply the rules consistently - but it's all the players fault! Oh sorry they get assessed that's right!
Quote from: flowerpot on May 08, 2025, 12:21:11 PMAnd in your world it's ok for a ref to act the ballbag and potentially decide a match because players and management are normal humans with normal emotions who may get frustrated and vent out loud or kick a flag, abuse my hole away and wrap yourself in bubble wrap.
God forbid footballers and management having to behave like grownups.
Must be a ref's course 'round your way, every county is crying out for them because they can't stand listening to "ballbags" anymore
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2025, 02:54:19 PMTo have to listen to abuse from ill informed idiots on the sideline/crowd who only have a vague grasp on the intricacies of rules and what is/isn't a card.
As Tbrick has said the 50m rule will reduce abuse from the sideline, mentors and players. The difficulty I have for referees is that those of us on the sideline who have tried to keep pace with the rule changes and those that have not may not understand what is being implemented on the field. In the old world you could guess what a foul was for push, high tackle etc or if given against the player in possession which technical offence occurred, steps or a throw ball. Now you have to guess if any stoppage is a foul or some example of good play such as a mark, if the player is allowed to continue, if they can solo and go, if on soloing and going there is an advantage, if the ref will bring it forward when someone touches the player and why it was brought forward if this happens, as well as not knowing the score as you didn't see if the ref signalled a two pointer for that one that looked outside the arc.
As a spectator at both underage and adult matches it is frustrating to not know what decision is being made and why. And whist I am trying not to be an idiot on the sideline for some the frustration will boil over and unfortunately the referee will bear the brunt of it. And that will be regardless of how 'good' or 'bad' the ref is on any given day as spectators will have very few clues as to why crucial decisions are being made.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2025, 02:24:00 PMWoukd Pot like games to be played without Refs?
Would like refs that were consistent - a man saying FFS when being blew up is not abuse, kicking a flag is not abuse, but the glee these lads have from racing halfway up the field is pathetic.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2025, 02:54:19 PMQuote from: flowerpot on May 08, 2025, 12:21:11 PMAnd in your world it's ok for a ref to act the ballbag and potentially decide a match because players and management are normal humans with normal emotions who may get frustrated and vent out loud or kick a flag, abuse my hole away and wrap yourself in bubble wrap.
It's no wonder they can't get referees anymore when there's people like this.
To have to listen to abuse from ill informed idiots on the sideline/crowd who only have a vague grasp on the intricacies of rules and what is/isn't a card.
Couldn't pay me to do it.
Who's giving or advocating abuse - please post the quote many thanks in advance.
Edit - maybe don't change so many rules and give no one any games to get use to them, there are ex gaa pundits don't know wtf is going on half the time.
Quote from: JoG2 on May 08, 2025, 03:11:58 PMQuote from: flowerpot on May 08, 2025, 12:25:18 PMIt might help if refs applied the rules correctly, depending on who you get the rules are applied differently, even the same ref in the same game can't apply the rules consistently - but it's all the players fault! Oh sorry they get assessed that's right!
Quote from: flowerpot on May 08, 2025, 12:21:11 PMAnd in your world it's ok for a ref to act the ballbag and potentially decide a match because players and management are normal humans with normal emotions who may get frustrated and vent out loud or kick a flag, abuse my hole away and wrap yourself in bubble wrap.
God forbid footballers and management having to behave like grownups.
Must be a ref's course 'round your way, every county is crying out for them because they can't stand listening to "ballbags" anymore
The old chestnut away and be a ref yourself, how many times do you say that on here, must be weekly now.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 08, 2025, 02:55:35 PMIn this instance, I think both MR2 and Pot are right!
100% agree the ref should not be subjected to the abuse we've seen in the past, and I've no issue with the 50m rule to cut it out.
However, at the very least, a referee within a single game should be able to apply the rules consistently throughout that game.
Ideally, all refs should be consistent across all games, but difficult to see that happening.
This lack of consistency is what frustrates people more than anything and often results in that frustration boiling over. The 50m rule will help control that frustration and referee abuse, but it does nothing for resolving the issue of some really inept referees.
Don't try to be logical on here, the new rules have given refs carte blanch to do what they want, lads playing football for 20 / 30 years now have totally change and not be frustrated when they don't understand what they are being blown for or the wee man will be on the 50M dash ball in hand!
I still don't get what the story is with the steps rule now either. Did Gough just police them stringently in the armagh tyrone game and that is all we will see of the more stringent policing of it for the rest of the year? I have not seen another game reffed like that since wrt steps.
He didn't even police them consistently in that game but sure he probably got assessed after the game.
Quote from: flowerpot on May 08, 2025, 03:34:04 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2025, 02:54:19 PMQuote from: flowerpot on May 08, 2025, 12:21:11 PMAnd in your world it's ok for a ref to act the ballbag and potentially decide a match because players and management are normal humans with normal emotions who may get frustrated and vent out loud or kick a flag, abuse my hole away and wrap yourself in bubble wrap.
It's no wonder they can't get referees anymore when there's people like this.
To have to listen to abuse from ill informed idiots on the sideline/crowd who only have a vague grasp on the intricacies of rules and what is/isn't a card.
Couldn't pay me to do it.
Who's giving or advocating abuse - please post the quote many thanks in advance.
Edit - maybe don't change so many rules and give no one any games to get use to them, there are ex gaa pundits don't know wtf is going on half the time.
You are?? In the post above?
That's abuse what age are you we live in Ireland, acting the bollix abuse too?
Dear pot,
See a shrink or take a laxative.
Some snowflakes on here.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 07, 2025, 12:23:30 PMQuote from: The Trap on May 06, 2025, 09:03:57 PMNo can't go back now but hopefully sense prevails at the end of the year and only a few of the new rules are maintained for a 5 year period.
Will we need an asterisk beside the 2025 AI and Tailteann winners?
It'll be like the 80 minute finals in the early 70's, Dublin's 6 in a row before a stand of cardboard cut outs in 2020 or Tyrone's 'we can't field a team' success of '21. ;)
Quote from: onefineday on May 09, 2025, 12:29:18 AMQuote from: johnnycool on May 07, 2025, 12:23:30 PMQuote from: The Trap on May 06, 2025, 09:03:57 PMNo can't go back now but hopefully sense prevails at the end of the year and only a few of the new rules are maintained for a 5 year period.
Will we need an asterisk beside the 2025 AI and Tailteann winners?
It'll be like the 80 minute finals in the early 70's, Dublin's 6 in a row before a stand of cardboard cut outs in 2020 or Tyrone's 'we can't field a team' success of '21. ;)
Mayo weren't that bad in 202 were they?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 07, 2025, 10:09:27 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 07, 2025, 09:54:04 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 07, 2025, 09:27:08 PMQuote from: Main Street on May 07, 2025, 08:45:17 PMIn the bad old days could the ref not dish out a yellow card for dissent or any form of abuse thrown his way?
Yes, and still do
In the main the ball is just moved forward a zillion metres with no yellow card. In the past were refs shy to dish out a yellow for dissent therefore the idea of moving the ball forward took root?
Not really, there was a higher bar for the dissent I suppose to get a yellow, now the 50m makes it simple and if they give dissent after the 50m you give a yellow..
I personally explain my reasoning and if they continue to complain I'll move it.
I suppose we could have the forward steps graded as in penalty steps, 10 steps for a stare, 20 steps for a bit of dissent ( a mild hand gesture, the dissenting shrug), 30 steps for "Ah ref!!" and the max 50 steps (+- yellow card) for "FFS ref would you ever cop on".
Plus your county would have to pay for maximum 10 counselling sessions for the poor ref on the receiving end of the FFS comment.
Quote from: flowerpot on May 09, 2025, 12:07:25 PMPlus your county would have to pay for maximum 10 counselling sessions for the poor ref on the receiving end of the FFS comment.
How many refs are you seeing punish that? Hasn't been many 50 yard punishments I've seen yet but I'd say all of them have been for physical infringements and that's from experienced refs who are used to the abuse and new refs
Kicking a flag might need a further few sessions.
Wouldn't have thought McGeeney would have the time to bitch on the GAA board, but hey ho
And in early May the most childest pathetic post of 2025 is awarded to the above post.
Quote from: flowerpot on May 10, 2025, 07:03:58 AMAnd in early May the most childest pathetic post of 2025 is awarded to the above post.
Account made a month ago, and a quick scan through your posts shows the majority are snipey, negative remarks like this.
Why bother? What's going on in your real life that this is how you spend your free time?
Is there a designated height the ref has to throw the ball for game start and or hop balls?
Ref in Ulster SFC seemed to throw it very high for restarts!
Rule for allowing murphy to stretch and pause the game???
Quote from: 5times5times on May 10, 2025, 09:31:20 PMRule for allowing murphy to stretch and pause the game???
If the clock is stopped then what odds?
What advantage is anyone gaining?
None.
If the clock is stopped to allow one player to recover, but not others, the team with the injured player benefits by not having to play 14 v 15.
If the ref did stop the game for cramp as opposed to whatever else was going on he gave Donegal an advantage of having a ball winner up and fit for the kickout.
Quote from: GTP on May 11, 2025, 09:54:43 AMIf the clock is stopped to allow one player to recover, but not others, the team with the injured player benefits by not having to play 14 v 15.
If the ref did stop the game for cramp as opposed to whatever else was going on he gave Donegal an advantage of having a ball winner up and fit for the kickout.
Or maybe he gave all 30 players an opportunity to stretch and help with cramp prevention?
Honest to God, people who whinge about anything and everything. Just shut up and enjoy the sport.
You asked "What advantage is anyone gaining?". We don't know why the referee stopped the game but IF he did so to allow an injured player to recover when he should not have in accordance with the rules he would give that team an advantage.
Apologies for answering your question and I will shut up as requested.
I will have to assume your post isn't a whinge about anything and everything or you'd be a bit of a hypocrite.
Teams running down the clock until the hooter is a hateful bollox of a thing. Louth and Donegal did it for 4-5 minutes.
They should make the rule where the ball should go over the end line to finish the game . At least then there'd be none of this piggy in the middle sh*te and teams would have to attack , to kick a score or put it wide
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 11, 2025, 06:17:23 PMTeams running down the clock until the hooter is a hateful bollox of a thing. Louth and Donegal did it for 4-5 minutes.
They should make the rule where the ball should go over the end line to finish the game . At least then there'd be none of this piggy in the middle sh*te and teams would have to attack , to kick a score or put it wide
Not even sure that would work because you could do the same thing but then kick it out over the end line. Unfortunately this is supposedly more exciting than how things used to be.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 11, 2025, 07:13:25 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on May 11, 2025, 06:17:23 PMTeams running down the clock until the hooter is a hateful bollox of a thing. Louth and Donegal did it for 4-5 minutes.
They should make the rule where the ball should go over the end line to finish the game . At least then there'd be none of this piggy in the middle sh*te and teams would have to attack , to kick a score or put it wide
Not even sure that would work because you could do the same thing but then kick it out over the end line. Unfortunately this is supposedly more exciting than how things used to be.
Yes but the team running down the clock would have to enter the opponents half, to get that kick over the end line after the hooter.
It wouldn't prevent the 3-4 minutes of tootling about with the ball , but it would at least give it a bit of jeopardy, as the other team could turn them over , and counterattack.
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 11, 2025, 07:22:52 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 11, 2025, 07:13:25 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on May 11, 2025, 06:17:23 PMTeams running down the clock until the hooter is a hateful bollox of a thing. Louth and Donegal did it for 4-5 minutes.
They should make the rule where the ball should go over the end line to finish the game . At least then there'd be none of this piggy in the middle sh*te and teams would have to attack , to kick a score or put it wide
Not even sure that would work because you could do the same thing but then kick it out over the end line. Unfortunately this is supposedly more exciting than how things used to be.
Yes but the team running down the clock would have to enter the opponents half, to get that kick over the end line after the hooter.
It wouldn't prevent the 3-4 minutes of tootling about with the ball , but it would at least give it a bit of jeopardy, as the other team could turn them over , and counterattack.
Team A can only run down the clock if Team B allows it to happen. There is no jeopardy if there is little to no pressure on the ball carrier.
Towards the end of extra time yesterday. Cawley threw the ball in and the clock restarted at 17.57, outside of the foul from Rafferty how many Armagh men got close to a putting in a tackle or hand on a Donegal man. It was only when the game entered the last 30secs (after the free kick)that Armagh started really harassing and going after it.
Quote from: Estimator on May 11, 2025, 07:57:54 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on May 11, 2025, 07:22:52 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 11, 2025, 07:13:25 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on May 11, 2025, 06:17:23 PMTeams running down the clock until the hooter is a hateful bollox of a thing. Louth and Donegal did it for 4-5 minutes.
They should make the rule where the ball should go over the end line to finish the game . At least then there'd be none of this piggy in the middle sh*te and teams would have to attack , to kick a score or put it wide
Not even sure that would work because you could do the same thing but then kick it out over the end line. Unfortunately this is supposedly more exciting than how things used to be.
Yes but the team running down the clock would have to enter the opponents half, to get that kick over the end line after the hooter.
It wouldn't prevent the 3-4 minutes of tootling about with the ball , but it would at least give it a bit of jeopardy, as the other team could turn them over , and counterattack.
Team A can only run down the clock if Team B allows it to happen. There is no jeopardy if there is little to no pressure on the ball carrier.
Towards the end of extra time yesterday. Cawley threw the ball in and the clock restarted at 17.57, outside of the foul from Rafferty how many Armagh men got close to a putting in a tackle or hand on a Donegal man. It was only when the game entered the last 30secs (after the free kick)that Armagh started really harassing and going after it.
Yes but the rules allow for it and largely encourage it I feel. Its difficult to press when the rules dictate how many can be in a half and teams can use the half way line to their advantage.
Teams always could run down the clock by keeping possession, our seniors did it for years, they were controlled and confident on the ball
Now knowing what's exactly left doesn't really change things for me
Epic weekend-brilliant Ulster and Leinster finals and All Ireland U20 semi-final. Rule committee should get All Stars at the end of the season ✨️
Quote from: Estimator on May 11, 2025, 07:57:54 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on May 11, 2025, 07:22:52 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 11, 2025, 07:13:25 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on May 11, 2025, 06:17:23 PMTeams running down the clock until the hooter is a hateful bollox of a thing. Louth and Donegal did it for 4-5 minutes.
They should make the rule where the ball should go over the end line to finish the game . At least then there'd be none of this piggy in the middle sh*te and teams would have to attack , to kick a score or put it wide
Not even sure that would work because you could do the same thing but then kick it out over the end line. Unfortunately this is supposedly more exciting than how things used to be.
Yes but the team running down the clock would have to enter the opponents half, to get that kick over the end line after the hooter.
It wouldn't prevent the 3-4 minutes of tootling about with the ball , but it would at least give it a bit of jeopardy, as the other team could turn them over , and counterattack.
Team A can only run down the clock if Team B allows it to happen. There is no jeopardy if there is little to no pressure on the ball carrier.
Towards the end of extra time yesterday. Cawley threw the ball in and the clock restarted at 17.57, outside of the foul from Rafferty how many Armagh men got close to a putting in a tackle or hand on a Donegal man. It was only when the game entered the last 30secs (after the free kick)that Armagh started really harassing and going after it.
I think the game should end when the hooter goes (or if the ball is in motion - as soon as it stops - so if a the ball has been kicked for a point and but hasn't crossed the bar before the hooter..it still counts).
Only exceptions for frees and penalties (so no last minute cynical fouling)
Silly argument about keeping the ball and running down the clock being a bad thing.
Be brave and go for them. Foul them. Make them panic.
And don't wait until we're in hooter time to step up in the tackle. Donegal gave the ball away twice in the last few minutes when Armagh did decide to step up on them and pressure them. But prob wasted a minute or two before that where they stood off.
Quote from: Truthsayer on May 11, 2025, 09:59:12 PMEpic weekend-brilliant Ulster and Leinster finals and All Ireland U20 semi-final. Rule committee should get All Stars at the end of the season ✨️
My apologizes to the FRC. I've been critical, however it was a glorious weekend of football. I think they've been vindicated. Gaelic football is now as entertaining as hurling.
I still don't like the 2 pointer but I suspect I'll have to live with it. It's like Babe Ruth hitting 50 home runs in 1920. Like 2 pointers from 45 metres, fans loved his mighty swats...thus ended the dead ball era.
However could we lose the 2 point frees? The deciding 2 pointer in Sunday's game was a judgement call. We shouldn't be awarding 2 point opportunities on referee decisions. It's a no win situation for referees. I'm sure Meath fans were rather unhappy with the call.
Nice to see goals still matter. Armagh lost because they couldn't find the net(very unlucky on one) and the Kerry U20s would have had a great chance had they taken their goals.
Quote from: EoinW on May 12, 2025, 12:50:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on May 11, 2025, 09:59:12 PMEpic weekend-brilliant Ulster and Leinster finals and All Ireland U20 semi-final. Rule committee should get All Stars at the end of the season ✨️
My apologizes to the FRC. I've been critical, however it was a glorious weekend of football. I think they've been vindicated. Gaelic football is now as entertaining as hurling.
I still don't like the 2 pointer but I suspect I'll have to live with it. It's like Babe Ruth hitting 50 home runs in 1920. Like 2 pointers from 45 metres, fans loved his mighty swats...thus ended the dead ball era.
However could we lose the 2 point frees? The deciding 2 pointer in Sunday's game was a judgement call. We shouldn't be awarding 2 point opportunities on referee decisions. It's a no win situation for referees. I'm sure Meath fans were rather unhappy with the call.
Nice to see goals still matter. Armagh lost because they couldn't find the net(very unlucky on one) and the Kerry U20s would have had a great chance had they taken their goals.
I am not saying you are wrong but am genuinely interested how in your opinion the new rules contributed to that? We had in my opinion a much better Ulster final in each of the last two years and the Leinster final was good because we had two well matched teams involved for the first time in over a decade. I get the sense there is a real confirmation bias going on with these rules.
I think there are far too many rule changes and by nature they are too hard to police as you go down into club and underage games. I was in favour of simple, easily policed changes that would negate the possession based structure and increase contests between players. Some of the rule changes result from how brainlessly dogmatic most referees are. I mean the tap and go is so brilliant because so many refs wouldn't play an advantage and loved to prevent quick frees by making attacking teams take frees from the exact point of the foul or saying it hasn't travelled 13m. I literally witnessed hundreds of incidents where the defending teams cynical play was rewarded because the ref deliberately slowed down the attacking teams restart, allowing the defenders to all get behind the ball and pick up a marker.
I'd allow the tap and go free and get rid of all the rest in favour of one simple rule change.
A team inside their own 45 can't fist pass the ball. To make a fist pass you must be outside your own 45.
This would encourage several positive tactics and return towards the kicking style of football played before 2011-2012 where possession periods were shorter and contests for possession was the main facet of the game.
1. Encourages keepers to kick beyond the 45. Increasing contested kick outs and disincentivising short kick outs. No need for the 45m arc for kick outs.
2. Encourage teams to kick the ball longer and put 50/50 balls into their forwards, knowing that even if the ball is lost to a defending team the odds of recovering possession are a lot higher than at present.
3. Encourage teams to press up the pitch with forwards and leave forwards in the attacking 45. This achieves the same outcome as the 3v3 rule. It rebalances the placement of players on the pitch, essentially you need players along all lines of the pitch to contests for possession of the ball that's there. A return of sorts to the 6-2-6 formation that defined football.
4. Punish teams who want to run down the clock or hold possession to kill another team's momentum. Donegal and Louth both spent the last minutes of their wins running away from the goals, holding possession in the middle 3rd, where there is the least danger that they will lose the ball and the least danger that a turnover will lead to a guaranteed score. 3-5 minutes of keep ball is no-ones idea of an exciting end to a game.
If in practice this was excessively punitive on defenders it could be tweaked to allow handpasses inside the 21m line or the defender who wins back possession is allowed one hand pass to set up the kick-pass out of defence.
The issue with the rule changes is that whilst they've inflated scores the basic structure of games is unchanged. Defending teams are still rewarded with putting as many men as possible inside their own 40 arc and attackers are rewarded with keeping possession and making no-risk passes to each other until an spare man or tired defender is found and a point opportunity appears. Anyone who thinks this is insane or unworkable should take a look at the current rule changes and see some of the ridiculous situations it has lead to, of goalkeepers running away from passes, of defenders bouncing along halfway lines with frustration as a attacker a few feet in front of him jogs around in easy possession, of forwards sprinting towards a ball and then stopping to wait until it reaches them.
This is essentially the type of game I'd like to see football move towards again, kick-passing, man-marking, forward movement, less recycling of possession backwards.
At the time this wasn't even considered a great match or contested by 2 brilliant teams. But if a game like this was played today I think people would be raving about it.
Quote from: trileacman on May 12, 2025, 03:49:59 PM
This is essentially the type of game I'd like to see football move towards again, kick-passing, man-marking, forward movement, less recycling of possession backwards.
At the time this wasn't even considered a great match or contested by 2 brilliant teams. But if a game like this was played today I think people would be raving about it.
Those were the days.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 12, 2025, 01:57:44 PMQuote from: EoinW on May 12, 2025, 12:50:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on May 11, 2025, 09:59:12 PMEpic weekend-brilliant Ulster and Leinster finals and All Ireland U20 semi-final. Rule committee should get All Stars at the end of the season ✨️
My apologizes to the FRC. I've been critical, however it was a glorious weekend of football. I think they've been vindicated. Gaelic football is now as entertaining as hurling.
I still don't like the 2 pointer but I suspect I'll have to live with it. It's like Babe Ruth hitting 50 home runs in 1920. Like 2 pointers from 45 metres, fans loved his mighty swats...thus ended the dead ball era.
However could we lose the 2 point frees? The deciding 2 pointer in Sunday's game was a judgement call. We shouldn't be awarding 2 point opportunities on referee decisions. It's a no win situation for referees. I'm sure Meath fans were rather unhappy with the call.
Nice to see goals still matter. Armagh lost because they couldn't find the net(very unlucky on one) and the Kerry U20s would have had a great chance had they taken their goals.
I am not saying you are wrong but am genuinely interested how in your opinion the new rules contributed to that? We had in my opinion a much better Ulster final in each of the last two years and the Leinster final was good because we had two well matched teams involved for the first time in over a decade. I get the sense there is a real confirmation bias going on with these rules.
Excellent question! Not sure I can give a very good answer.
Like you, I had no problem with the 2024 version. The scoring was in the teens and I enjoyed what I was seeing. Clearly many fans here had a big problem with it. They've told us so.
My impression is that the pace is up in all games and there's lots of end to end action. It's more chaotic, which makes it more unpredictable. Obviously scoring is up because the rule changes have all favoured offence and handicapped defence. Too much? Probably, however time will tell.
Confirmation bias? You may be onto something.
I've written some harsh criticism about the FRC and GAA. I do not like being so cynical. I also want to be openminded. I suppose the new game is here to stay and I'd rather enjoy it than lament what has been lost.
Confirmation bias can't be entirely ruled out.
But here's the thing. Everywhere I go now, everyone I talk to, is both reflecting positively on previous game and looking forward to the following weekend.
And I don't just mean at county level. We are now looking forward to club games in Down. Honestly, nobody enjoyed enjoyed club football in our county the past decade. It was a ritual we went through, on a par with decks of the rosary or the stations of the cross. Nobody enjoyed it, they put up with it.
The occasionals, the regulars and the die hards are all coming to the same conclusion.
That's got to require a lot more than the want that delivers confirmation bias.
I'm sure coaches will find a way to f**k the game over again before too long. But I took control of my naturally cynical disposition after week 2 or 3 of the national league, when I realised I was ranting enjoyment at televised games that previously I would have ignored or fallen asleep to. Never thought that would happen again.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 12, 2025, 11:03:30 PMConfirmation bias can't be entirely ruled out.
But here's the thing. Everywhere I go now, everyone I talk to, is both reflecting positively on previous game and looking forward to the following weekend.
And I don't just mean at county level. We are now looking forward to club games in Down. Honestly, nobody enjoyed enjoyed club football in our county the past decade. It was a ritual we went through, on a par with decks of the rosary or the stations of the cross. Nobody enjoyed it, they put up with it.
The occasionals, the regulars and the die hards are all coming to the same conclusion.
That's got to require a lot more than the want that delivers confirmation bias.
I'm sure coaches will find a way to f**k the game over again before too long. But I took control of my naturally cynical disposition after week 2 or 3 of the national league, when I realised I was ranting enjoyment at televised games that previously I would have ignored or fallen asleep to. Never thought that would happen again.
Interesting your experience talking to people is different to mine. Nothing wrong with that of course. Strangely I wonder if it's a county bias thing. Obviously as an Armagh man 2024 will live in history for me. I've lost track of how many times I've watched the games from last season and to me this year is no better. I wonder if that's because I liked Armaghs style of play last year. I wonder to what degree that factors into the opinions of I talk to as well. Obviously most I talk to will be Armagh fans as well.
Unfortunately I live 90 mins from my club now (wife's choice) so I've only been to a handful of games but my views on the game at club are largely the same.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 12, 2025, 01:57:44 PMQuote from: EoinW on May 12, 2025, 12:50:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on May 11, 2025, 09:59:12 PMEpic weekend-brilliant Ulster and Leinster finals and All Ireland U20 semi-final. Rule committee should get All Stars at the end of the season ✨️
My apologizes to the FRC. I've been critical, however it was a glorious weekend of football. I think they've been vindicated. Gaelic football is now as entertaining as hurling.
I still don't like the 2 pointer but I suspect I'll have to live with it. It's like Babe Ruth hitting 50 home runs in 1920. Like 2 pointers from 45 metres, fans loved his mighty swats...thus ended the dead ball era.
However could we lose the 2 point frees? The deciding 2 pointer in Sunday's game was a judgement call. We shouldn't be awarding 2 point opportunities on referee decisions. It's a no win situation for referees. I'm sure Meath fans were rather unhappy with the call.
Nice to see goals still matter. Armagh lost because they couldn't find the net(very unlucky on one) and the Kerry U20s would have had a great chance had they taken their goals.
I am not saying you are wrong but am genuinely interested how in your opinion the new rules contributed to that? We had in my opinion a much better Ulster final in each of the last two years and the Leinster final was good because we had two well matched teams involved for the first time in over a decade. I get the sense there is a real confirmation bias going on with these rules.
I think the kickout rule has largely removed/significantly reduced the ability to close the game out. Last year, if Donegal had lead by 7, it would have been game over, this year, that happened twice, yet Armagh didn't panic and methodically clawed back the deficit.
There's also little doubt in my mind that the removal of the keeper as a passing option has been a huge positive which contributes hugely to this reduced ability to control possession for long periods and close games out.
Quote from: trileacman on May 12, 2025, 03:09:09 PMI think there are far too many rule changes and by nature they are too hard to police as you go down into club and underage games. I was in favour of simple, easily policed changes that would negate the possession based structure and increase contests between players. Some of the rule changes result from how brainlessly dogmatic most referees are. I mean the tap and go is so brilliant because so many refs wouldn't play an advantage and loved to prevent quick frees by making attacking teams take frees from the exact point of the foul or saying it hasn't travelled 13m. I literally witnessed hundreds of incidents where the defending teams cynical play was rewarded because the ref deliberately slowed down the attacking teams restart, allowing the defenders to all get behind the ball and pick up a marker.
I'd allow the tap and go free and get rid of all the rest in favour of one simple rule change.
A team inside their own 45 can't fist pass the ball. To make a fist pass you must be outside your own 45.
This would encourage several positive tactics and return towards the kicking style of football played before 2011-2012 where possession periods were shorter and contests for possession was the main facet of the game.
1. Encourages keepers to kick beyond the 45. Increasing contested kick outs and disincentivising short kick outs. No need for the 45m arc for kick outs.
2. Encourage teams to kick the ball longer and put 50/50 balls into their forwards, knowing that even if the ball is lost to a defending team the odds of recovering possession are a lot higher than at present.
3. Encourage teams to press up the pitch with forwards and leave forwards in the attacking 45. This achieves the same outcome as the 3v3 rule. It rebalances the placement of players on the pitch, essentially you need players along all lines of the pitch to contests for possession of the ball that's there. A return of sorts to the 6-2-6 formation that defined football.
4. Punish teams who want to run down the clock or hold possession to kill another team's momentum. Donegal and Louth both spent the last minutes of their wins running away from the goals, holding possession in the middle 3rd, where there is the least danger that they will lose the ball and the least danger that a turnover will lead to a guaranteed score. 3-5 minutes of keep ball is no-ones idea of an exciting end to a game.
If in practice this was excessively punitive on defenders it could be tweaked to allow handpasses inside the 21m line or the defender who wins back possession is allowed one hand pass to set up the kick-pass out of defence.
The issue with the rule changes is that whilst they've inflated scores the basic structure of games is unchanged. Defending teams are still rewarded with putting as many men as possible inside their own 40 arc and attackers are rewarded with keeping possession and making no-risk passes to each other until an spare man or tired defender is found and a point opportunity appears. Anyone who thinks this is insane or unworkable should take a look at the current rule changes and see some of the ridiculous situations it has lead to, of goalkeepers running away from passes, of defenders bouncing along halfway lines with frustration as a attacker a few feet in front of him jogs around in easy possession, of forwards sprinting towards a ball and then stopping to wait until it reaches them.
Interesting idea
Quote from: onefineday on May 14, 2025, 01:09:18 AMQuote from: trileacman on May 12, 2025, 03:09:09 PMI think there are far too many rule changes and by nature they are too hard to police as you go down into club and underage games. I was in favour of simple, easily policed changes that would negate the possession based structure and increase contests between players. Some of the rule changes result from how brainlessly dogmatic most referees are. I mean the tap and go is so brilliant because so many refs wouldn't play an advantage and loved to prevent quick frees by making attacking teams take frees from the exact point of the foul or saying it hasn't travelled 13m. I literally witnessed hundreds of incidents where the defending teams cynical play was rewarded because the ref deliberately slowed down the attacking teams restart, allowing the defenders to all get behind the ball and pick up a marker.
I'd allow the tap and go free and get rid of all the rest in favour of one simple rule change.
A team inside their own 45 can't fist pass the ball. To make a fist pass you must be outside your own 45.
This would encourage several positive tactics and return towards the kicking style of football played before 2011-2012 where possession periods were shorter and contests for possession was the main facet of the game.
1. Encourages keepers to kick beyond the 45. Increasing contested kick outs and disincentivising short kick outs. No need for the 45m arc for kick outs.
2. Encourage teams to kick the ball longer and put 50/50 balls into their forwards, knowing that even if the ball is lost to a defending team the odds of recovering possession are a lot higher than at present.
3. Encourage teams to press up the pitch with forwards and leave forwards in the attacking 45. This achieves the same outcome as the 3v3 rule. It rebalances the placement of players on the pitch, essentially you need players along all lines of the pitch to contests for possession of the ball that's there. A return of sorts to the 6-2-6 formation that defined football.
4. Punish teams who want to run down the clock or hold possession to kill another team's momentum. Donegal and Louth both spent the last minutes of their wins running away from the goals, holding possession in the middle 3rd, where there is the least danger that they will lose the ball and the least danger that a turnover will lead to a guaranteed score. 3-5 minutes of keep ball is no-ones idea of an exciting end to a game.
If in practice this was excessively punitive on defenders it could be tweaked to allow handpasses inside the 21m line or the defender who wins back possession is allowed one hand pass to set up the kick-pass out of defence.
The issue with the rule changes is that whilst they've inflated scores the basic structure of games is unchanged. Defending teams are still rewarded with putting as many men as possible inside their own 40 arc and attackers are rewarded with keeping possession and making no-risk passes to each other until an spare man or tired defender is found and a point opportunity appears. Anyone who thinks this is insane or unworkable should take a look at the current rule changes and see some of the ridiculous situations it has lead to, of goalkeepers running away from passes, of defenders bouncing along halfway lines with frustration as a attacker a few feet in front of him jogs around in easy possession, of forwards sprinting towards a ball and then stopping to wait until it reaches them.
Interesting idea
:D :D :D after the weekend we've had the most negative loada nonsense 🙄
Quote from: onefineday on May 14, 2025, 01:08:33 AMQuote from: David McKeown on May 12, 2025, 01:57:44 PMQuote from: EoinW on May 12, 2025, 12:50:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on May 11, 2025, 09:59:12 PMEpic weekend-brilliant Ulster and Leinster finals and All Ireland U20 semi-final. Rule committee should get All Stars at the end of the season ✨️
My apologizes to the FRC. I've been critical, however it was a glorious weekend of football. I think they've been vindicated. Gaelic football is now as entertaining as hurling.
I still don't like the 2 pointer but I suspect I'll have to live with it. It's like Babe Ruth hitting 50 home runs in 1920. Like 2 pointers from 45 metres, fans loved his mighty swats...thus ended the dead ball era.
However could we lose the 2 point frees? The deciding 2 pointer in Sunday's game was a judgement call. We shouldn't be awarding 2 point opportunities on referee decisions. It's a no win situation for referees. I'm sure Meath fans were rather unhappy with the call.
Nice to see goals still matter. Armagh lost because they couldn't find the net(very unlucky on one) and the Kerry U20s would have had a great chance had they taken their goals.
I am not saying you are wrong but am genuinely interested how in your opinion the new rules contributed to that? We had in my opinion a much better Ulster final in each of the last two years and the Leinster final was good because we had two well matched teams involved for the first time in over a decade. I get the sense there is a real confirmation bias going on with these rules.
I think the kickout rule has largely removed/significantly reduced the ability to close the game out. Last year, if Donegal had lead by 7, it would have been game over, this year, that happened twice, yet Armagh didn't panic and methodically clawed back the deficit.
There's also little doubt in my mind that the removal of the keeper as a passing option has been a huge positive which contributes hugely to this reduced ability to control possession for long periods and close games out.
Ahh ok thanks. There may be something in that. I've only seen the kickout rule as punishing on the team taking the kick out and reducing the fairness of matches.
I disagree on the goal keeper rule. I find it artificial and actual encourages a slow build up as teams lack the spare man to burst through after a deep defensive turn over
If nothing else the 50m penalty that has cut out all the sh1te at every free has been a great development. Along with the solo and go the game seems to be a bit more free-flowing.
Quote from: Mad Mentor on May 14, 2025, 08:26:52 AMIf nothing else the 50m penalty that has cut out all the sh1te at every free has been a great development. Along with the solo and go the game seems to be a bit more free-flowing.
It's really noticeable the difference between hurling and football at the moment in terms of stupid nonsense.
There's so much of it still in hurling and it has pretty much completely disappeared from football.
I'd imagine it will be only a matter of time before a similar rule is brought in for hurling.
The big lesson for me is that if you want to stamp out behaviour "harsh/decent" punishments are the way to go.
If you have "soft/weak" punishments it just means that teams will say it is worthwhile to break the rules and
will continue to do so.
Punish those who cheat and break the rules and protect and reward those who play the game in a fair and clean manner.
I thought there'd be a lot more direct long ball into the full forwards but it just seems to be more of the same re: don't give possession away, carry ball up and look for space in and around the D for the 1 pt. If not, re-cycle and if chance, take the 2 pointer.
Quote from: marty34 on May 14, 2025, 12:18:42 PMI thought there'd be a lot more direct long ball into the full forwards but it just seems to be more of the same re: don't give possession away, carry ball up and look for space in and around the D for the 1 pt. If not, re-cycle and if chance, take the 2 pointer.
I think it will take a bit more time for players and management to adopt their games to the new rules.
I think so far it has been a story of teams getting used to the rule changes (and mid-league tweaks) and basically just playing the same way they have always played.
Teams don't seem to have strategically or tactically adjusted to the new rules in either attack or defence.
Are you just allowed to take a tap and go from anywhere now then? He was about 10 yards away from the player that was fouled and was given a free chance of getting forward. Player hands it back and he's straight through, player doesn't hand it back and it's brought forward 50m
What was the foul for near the very end that allowed Galway (with the aid of a 50m penalty) to get an equaliser?
What's the craic or rule about keeper dribbling out like Gleeson down twice tonight, even commentators struggles to explain
Ball can be touched repeatedly by the kicker out to the arch. I presume it is something someone thought of to help underage keepers. Attacker can still intercept defender can't collect.
Quote from: GTP on May 17, 2025, 09:11:44 PMBall can be touched repeatedly by the kicker out to the arch. I presume it is something someone thought of to help underage keepers. Attacker can still intercept defender can't collect.
Original kickout must travel 13 yards? I think?
"The player taking a kickout may kick the ball more than once before any other player touches it but may not take the ball into the hands"
So the forward could jump as soon as he touched it. Keeper can't pick it up?
That's something that has no real benefits in my head.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 18, 2025, 08:53:51 AMSo the forward could jump as soon as he touched it. Keeper can't pick it up?
That's something that has no real benefits in my head.
I think it was brought it with an underage keeper in mind- if a kick was mishit and didn't clear the arc do defender could touch it but a forward could.
You can counter it by keeping a forward in the big arc. A keeper isn't going to dribble the ball out with someone 13m away ready to go. So any benefits, and I cant see any, would be short lived.
Quote from: GTP on May 18, 2025, 09:41:29 AMYou can counter it by keeping a forward in the big arc. A keeper isn't going to dribble the ball out with someone 13m away ready to go. So any benefits, and I cant see any, would be short lived.
Yeah its a big risk for little or no reward. Although if a team leaves a forward inside in theory it should be easier to free a defender up for a short.
I presume Gleeson did it to try to draw a Dublin forward towards him so he could pass to the space that was now created?
I think that can be the only advantage from doing the little dribble.
So it was announced over the tannoy at Mayo Cavan that the hooter would not be in use for the game as it was not televised. Look, we all know this is madness and it has been discussed before.
But also there was a black card during the game, Neary for Mayo got a black just before half time, and with a lot of stoppages and injury time, he was back just after the start of the 2nd half. Isn't it genuinely madness that in games in the same group, a black card in one game with a hooter will mean 10 actual game minutes, and a black card with no hooter can be run down when there are injuries or on other times when the clock would usually be stopped. I just cannot get over how they fumbled the hooter with this to make games so different
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 19, 2025, 08:35:20 AMSo it was announced over the tannoy at Mayo Cavan that the hooter would not be in use for the game as it was not televised. Look, we all know this is madness and it has been discussed before.
But also there was a black card during the game, Neary for Mayo got a black just before half time, and with a lot of stoppages and injury time, he was back just after the start of the 2nd half. Isn't it genuinely madness that in games in the same group, a black card in one game with a hooter will mean 10 actual game minutes, and a black card with no hooter can be run down when there are injuries or on other times when the clock would usually be stopped. I just cannot get over how they fumbled the hooter with this to make games so different
I cannot understand the hooter rule when it was in place for the entire league and now they think it should be only used in televised games.
The black card is 10 minutes from issue and that keeps ticking even when there is a clock and it is stoped for injuries.
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 19, 2025, 08:35:20 AMSo it was announced over the tannoy at Mayo Cavan that the hooter would not be in use for the game as it was not televised. Look, we all know this is madness and it has been discussed before.
But also there was a black card during the game, Neary for Mayo got a black just before half time, and with a lot of stoppages and injury time, he was back just after the start of the 2nd half. Isn't it genuinely madness that in games in the same group, a black card in one game with a hooter will mean 10 actual game minutes, and a black card with no hooter can be run down when there are injuries or on other times when the clock would usually be stopped. I just cannot get over how they fumbled the hooter with this to make games so different
It should always have been a player is off for a full ten minutes regardless of injuries and subs, I was never for that when it came out and nothing has changed to say anything different, and this example makes it even more stupid..
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 19, 2025, 12:37:16 PMQuote from: Dreadnought on May 19, 2025, 08:35:20 AMSo it was announced over the tannoy at Mayo Cavan that the hooter would not be in use for the game as it was not televised. Look, we all know this is madness and it has been discussed before.
But also there was a black card during the game, Neary for Mayo got a black just before half time, and with a lot of stoppages and injury time, he was back just after the start of the 2nd half. Isn't it genuinely madness that in games in the same group, a black card in one game with a hooter will mean 10 actual game minutes, and a black card with no hooter can be run down when there are injuries or on other times when the clock would usually be stopped. I just cannot get over how they fumbled the hooter with this to make games so different
I cannot understand the hooter rule when it was in place for the entire league and now they think it should be only used in televised games.
The black card is 10 minutes from issue and that keeps ticking even when there is a clock and it is stoped for injuries.
But in a game with a hooter the clock doesn't keep ticking for injuries. So in a hooter game a black carded player is off for 10 playing minutes, but in a non hooter game the player is off for 10 clock minutes, as the OP said.
It is crazy that the same rule / punishment is different depending on whether a hooter is in operation or not.
3:15 in this video. Eoghan Ban wins a fairly easy kickout, gets brushed by a Tyrone lad, wouldn't even be enough for a free yet the ball gets moved forward for a 2 point score. No harm but does winning a ball just outside your own 45 really warrant 2 points? Nonsensical instances like these really frustrate me watching football this year. Games are littered with really unexplainable instances of severe punishments for minor infractions.
Tyrone lad needs to brush ::) up on the rules.
Quote from: trileacman on May 25, 2025, 01:35:36 PM
3:15 in this video. Eoghan Ban wins a fairly easy kickout, gets brushed by a Tyrone lad, wouldn't even be enough for a free yet the ball gets moved forward for a 2 point score. No harm but does winning a ball just outside your own 45 really warrant 2 points? Nonsensical instances like these really frustrate me watching football this year. Games are littered with really unexplainable instances of severe punishments for minor infractions.
No matter the level of excitement and now a great win... you'll find cause to complain 😆
I said to players the other night, player makes a mark, count to 5. That will allow space and time.
Quote from: trileacman on May 25, 2025, 01:35:36 PM
3:15 in this video. Eoghan Ban wins a fairly easy kickout, gets brushed by a Tyrone lad, wouldn't even be enough for a free yet the ball gets moved forward for a 2 point score. No harm but does winning a ball just outside your own 45 really warrant 2 points? Nonsensical instances like these really frustrate me watching football this year. Games are littered with really unexplainable instances of severe punishments for minor infractions.
It is a ridiculous rule and in no way does the punishment equate to the level of "offence". Hopefully that particular punishment is done away with when the time comes. This moving the ball forward 50 metres is often a nonsense, there was already a rule to move the ball forward. Should have just enforced that correctly in the first place.
Quote from: manwithnoplan on May 25, 2025, 07:59:54 PMQuote from: trileacman on May 25, 2025, 01:35:36 PM
3:15 in this video. Eoghan Ban wins a fairly easy kickout, gets brushed by a Tyrone lad, wouldn't even be enough for a free yet the ball gets moved forward for a 2 point score. No harm but does winning a ball just outside your own 45 really warrant 2 points? Nonsensical instances like these really frustrate me watching football this year. Games are littered with really unexplainable instances of severe punishments for minor infractions.
It is a ridiculous rule and in no way does the punishment equate to the level of "offence". Hopefully that particular punishment is done away with when the time comes. This moving the ball forward 50 metres is often a nonsense, there was already a rule to move the ball forward. Should have just enforced that correctly in the first place.
Moving the ball 13 meters was always enforced. Players just need to catch themselves on..
Was speaking to a professional footballer today, he said they can say what they want to a ref and literally get away with it, at worst a yellow.
Players have no need to interfere with a free or give off ( rightly or wrongly) to a ref.
Any repercussions of their actions is completely on them
Just learn the fkn rules instead if moaning on line.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 08:12:15 PMQuote from: manwithnoplan on May 25, 2025, 07:59:54 PMQuote from: trileacman on May 25, 2025, 01:35:36 PM
3:15 in this video. Eoghan Ban wins a fairly easy kickout, gets brushed by a Tyrone lad, wouldn't even be enough for a free yet the ball gets moved forward for a 2 point score. No harm but does winning a ball just outside your own 45 really warrant 2 points? Nonsensical instances like these really frustrate me watching football this year. Games are littered with really unexplainable instances of severe punishments for minor infractions.
It is a ridiculous rule and in no way does the punishment equate to the level of "offence". Hopefully that particular punishment is done away with when the time comes. This moving the ball forward 50 metres is often a nonsense, there was already a rule to move the ball forward. Should have just enforced that correctly in the first place.
Moving the ball 13 meters was always enforced. Players just need to catch themselves on..
Was speaking to a professional footballer today, he said they can say what they want to a ref and literally get away with it, at worst a yellow.
Players have no need to interfere with a free or give off ( rightly or wrongly) to a ref.
Any repercussions of their actions is completely on them
As discussed earlier it's a strange one because in the majority of cases guys are genuinely trying to tackle because they haven't realised it's a mark etc. in those circumstances it's far too great a punishment and for me devalues other hard won scores. When it's cynical and to stop a break then it's entirely the correct punishment I feel.
A major problem though is how inconsistently it's refereed. Even at the weekend Hurson was simply giving free kicks from the spot of the foul rather than moving them when there was an infringement whereas as we see in the footage the rule was seemingly being strictly enforced.
A player catching a ball on the 45 from a kick out is a mark, it's been a mark for years, the repercussions at the time for interfering with a mark was always moving the ball forward, so rather than 13 meters it's now 50.. that's all on the player. He'd be so stupid to give that away when knowing that there was always a infraction..
Stop thinking of the ramifications of doing it and start looking at why players are doing it? It's bonkers
I think what annoys me about the mark is the player doesn't need to call for it any more by raising a hand. The opponent who is contesting the same ball can then be penalised for interfering with the mark when neither player actually knows if it is given by the ref.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 09:08:11 PMA player catching a ball on the 45 from a kick out is a mark, it's been a mark for years, the repercussions at the time for interfering with a mark was always moving the ball forward, so rather than 13 meters it's now 50.. that's all on the player. He'd be so stupid to give that away when knowing that there was always a infraction..
Stop thinking of the ramifications of doing it and start looking at why players are doing it? It's bonkers
I don't think it is always bonkers. It can happen in a wide variety of situations including when a player jumps to contest the kick out and their momentum carries them into the opponent or when they have a different interpretation of how far 4 meters is.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 25, 2025, 09:58:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 09:08:11 PMA player catching a ball on the 45 from a kick out is a mark, it's been a mark for years, the repercussions at the time for interfering with a mark was always moving the ball forward, so rather than 13 meters it's now 50.. that's all on the player. He'd be so stupid to give that away when knowing that there was always a infraction..
Stop thinking of the ramifications of doing it and start looking at why players are doing it? It's bonkers
I don't think it is always bonkers. It can happen in a wide variety of situations including when a player jumps to contest the kick out and their momentum carries them into the opponent or when they have a different interpretation of how far 4 meters is.
A player falling onto someone isn't deliberately trying to prevent a quick 'mark' or free.. the ref has to know the difference. 4 meters is easy..
A supporters perception on how he sees the rules being applied are not up for debate really.. as the ref will use his own judgement
Quote from: CK_Redhand on May 25, 2025, 09:26:10 PMI think what annoys me about the mark is the player doesn't need to call for it any more by raising a hand. The opponent who is contesting the same ball can then be penalised for interfering with the mark when neither player actually knows if it is given by the ref.
The referee blews the whistle for every Mark and there never has been a rule to say the player had to signal for a Mark when they wanted to play on.
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on May 25, 2025, 10:27:12 PMQuote from: CK_Redhand on May 25, 2025, 09:26:10 PMI think what annoys me about the mark is the player doesn't need to call for it any more by raising a hand. The opponent who is contesting the same ball can then be penalised for interfering with the mark when neither player actually knows if it is given by the ref.
The referee blews the whistle for every Mark and there never has been a rule to say the player had to signal for a Mark when they wanted to play on.
In fact it's the opposite. If you put your hand up it means you are claiming the mark, and so you can't play on and therefore have no chance to be impeded to gain the additional 50m. So a player catching the mark now should almost never put his hand up and claim the mark, IMO.
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on May 25, 2025, 10:27:12 PMQuote from: CK_Redhand on May 25, 2025, 09:26:10 PMI think what annoys me about the mark is the player doesn't need to call for it any more by raising a hand. The opponent who is contesting the same ball can then be penalised for interfering with the mark when neither player actually knows if it is given by the ref.
The referee blews the whistle for every Mark and there never has been a rule to say the player had to signal for a Mark when they wanted to play on.
Correct, the only slight difference is whether he makes the mark (and if he raises the arm) players have to give way (as was the case regardless) and will they'll be punished if they attempt to play ball? Yes
Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 25, 2025, 10:31:03 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on May 25, 2025, 10:27:12 PMQuote from: CK_Redhand on May 25, 2025, 09:26:10 PMI think what annoys me about the mark is the player doesn't need to call for it any more by raising a hand. The opponent who is contesting the same ball can then be penalised for interfering with the mark when neither player actually knows if it is given by the ref.
The referee blews the whistle for every Mark and there never has been a rule to say the player had to signal for a Mark when they wanted to play on.
In fact it's the opposite. If you put your hand up it means you are claiming the mark, and so you can't play on and therefore have no chance to be impeded to gain the additional 50m. So a player catching the mark now should almost never put his hand up and claim the mark, IMO.
That's not the opposite of what I said but the same, I said they never had to raise their arm when playing on, not sure what you mean by opposite?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 10:37:22 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on May 25, 2025, 10:27:12 PMQuote from: CK_Redhand on May 25, 2025, 09:26:10 PMI think what annoys me about the mark is the player doesn't need to call for it any more by raising a hand. The opponent who is contesting the same ball can then be penalised for interfering with the mark when neither player actually knows if it is given by the ref.
The referee blews the whistle for every Mark and there never has been a rule to say the player had to signal for a Mark when they wanted to play on.
Correct, the only slight difference is whether he makes the mark (and if he raises the arm) players have to give way (as was the case regardless) and will they'll be punished if they attempt to play ball? Yes
Yep it was always moved forward if they tackled the player as they landed from catching a Mark
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 08:12:15 PMQuote from: manwithnoplan on May 25, 2025, 07:59:54 PMQuote from: trileacman on May 25, 2025, 01:35:36 PM
3:15 in this video. Eoghan Ban wins a fairly easy kickout, gets brushed by a Tyrone lad, wouldn't even be enough for a free yet the ball gets moved forward for a 2 point score. No harm but does winning a ball just outside your own 45 really warrant 2 points? Nonsensical instances like these really frustrate me watching football this year. Games are littered with really unexplainable instances of severe punishments for minor infractions.
It is a ridiculous rule and in no way does the punishment equate to the level of "offence". Hopefully that particular punishment is done away with when the time comes. This moving the ball forward 50 metres is often a nonsense, there was already a rule to move the ball forward. Should have just enforced that correctly in the first place.
Moving the ball 13 meters was always enforced. Players just need to catch themselves on..
Was speaking to a professional footballer today, he said they can say what they want to a ref and literally get away with it, at worst a yellow.
Players have no need to interfere with a free or give off ( rightly or wrongly) to a ref.
Any repercussions of their actions is completely on them
That's bullshit. As a supporter you never vent frustration at a miss or a decision at your team? I mean if refs are now such snowflakes that a player throwing his arms, kicking a water bottle out or saying "fucks sake ref" merits a 50m punishment then I think they'd be better handing back the whistle and letting someone who isn't so sensitive do it.
There's hundreds of people in the crowd throwing their hands up, swearing and getting emotionally involved in the match, it's part and parcel of sport. How is it fine that they do it but the players, the guys who have made the greatest sacrifices aren't allowed to display any emotion? The idea that players have to now behave like trained hounds, immediately interpreting and accepting the decisions of the referee is a joke.
There already existed 2 punishments for abuse of referees, black cards and 13m advances. It was more than enough to punish players who went beyond the acceptable limits of engaging with a referee. I don't see the need that during a game referees should be totally immune from any criticism of their performance given that everyone else, managers and players can receive plenty.
Trileac, you've posted on this multiple times now. You don't want officials, all you want is a punchbag. Someone to blame. Someone to vent at. Someone to despise.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 26, 2025, 12:22:57 AMTrileac, you've posted on this multiple times now. You don't want officials, all you want is a punchbag. Someone to blame. Someone to vent at. Someone to despise.
I've said the same, last week as well :D :D :D he's not a happy bunny!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 10:04:06 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 25, 2025, 09:58:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 09:08:11 PMA player catching a ball on the 45 from a kick out is a mark, it's been a mark for years, the repercussions at the time for interfering with a mark was always moving the ball forward, so rather than 13 meters it's now 50.. that's all on the player. He'd be so stupid to give that away when knowing that there was always a infraction..
Stop thinking of the ramifications of doing it and start looking at why players are doing it? It's bonkers
I don't think it is always bonkers. It can happen in a wide variety of situations including when a player jumps to contest the kick out and their momentum carries them into the opponent or when they have a different interpretation of how far 4 meters is.
A player falling onto someone isn't deliberately trying to prevent a quick 'mark' or free.. the ref has to know the difference. 4 meters is easy..
A supporters perception on how he sees the rules being applied are not up for debate really.. as the ref will use his own judgement
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here so apologies in advance if I've misunderstood but it's not perception on how rules are being interpreted it's how they are being inconsistently applied that is the problem.
Yes there will always be a human element to interpretation but you want to strive towards a consistent approach as much as possible. Rules that lead to inconsistency between matches are bad enough but rules like this which lead to inconsistency within games can be incredibly frustrating for players supporters management etc. That is further heightened when the inconsistent approach can have significant consequences on a result. For example when the difference in interpretation can result in easy 2 point frees.
Like everyone else referees will make mistakes and shouldn't be criticised for mistakes that are judgement calls. Sometimes mistakes will have significant consequences on matches. You want a coherent set of rules that can reduce errors through reducing inconsistency but also through where possible reducing the impact of errors on the overall result.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 26, 2025, 07:18:06 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 10:04:06 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 25, 2025, 09:58:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 09:08:11 PMA player catching a ball on the 45 from a kick out is a mark, it's been a mark for years, the repercussions at the time for interfering with a mark was always moving the ball forward, so rather than 13 meters it's now 50.. that's all on the player. He'd be so stupid to give that away when knowing that there was always a infraction..
Stop thinking of the ramifications of doing it and start looking at why players are doing it? It's bonkers
I don't think it is always bonkers. It can happen in a wide variety of situations including when a player jumps to contest the kick out and their momentum carries them into the opponent or when they have a different interpretation of how far 4 meters is.
A player falling onto someone isn't deliberately trying to prevent a quick 'mark' or free.. the ref has to know the difference. 4 meters is easy..
A supporters perception on how he sees the rules being applied are not up for debate really.. as the ref will use his own judgement
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here so apologies in advance if I've misunderstood but it's not perception on how rules are being interpreted it's how they are being inconsistently applied that is the problem.
Yes there will always be a human element to interpretation but you want to strive towards a consistent approach as much as possible. Rules that lead to inconsistency between matches are bad enough but rules like this which lead to inconsistency within games can be incredibly frustrating for players supporters management etc. That is further heightened when the inconsistent approach can have significant consequences on a result. For example when the difference in interpretation can result in easy 2 point frees.
Like everyone else referees will make mistakes and shouldn't be criticised for mistakes that are judgement calls. Sometimes mistakes will have significant consequences on matches. You want a coherent set of rules that can reduce errors through reducing inconsistency but also through where possible reducing the impact of errors on the overall result.
The rules are not black and white though.. we could sit in a room and watch 20 examples of 'fouls' and you'd have inconsistencies among everyone one there on what should happen. I've seen it multiple times, you'll view it one way someone else will view it differently
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on May 25, 2025, 10:49:15 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on May 25, 2025, 10:31:03 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on May 25, 2025, 10:27:12 PMQuote from: CK_Redhand on May 25, 2025, 09:26:10 PMI think what annoys me about the mark is the player doesn't need to call for it any more by raising a hand. The opponent who is contesting the same ball can then be penalised for interfering with the mark when neither player actually knows if it is given by the ref.
The referee blews the whistle for every Mark and there never has been a rule to say the player had to signal for a Mark when they wanted to play on.
In fact it's the opposite. If you put your hand up it means you are claiming the mark, and so you can't play on and therefore have no chance to be impeded to gain the additional 50m. So a player catching the mark now should almost never put his hand up and claim the mark, IMO.
That's not the opposite of what I said but the same, I said they never had to raise their arm when playing on, not sure what you mean by opposite?
I was continuing your point and was saying it was the opposite to the previous poster as he seemed to want the player to put up their hand so the opposition players knew that there was a mark, so they knew not to tackle him.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2025, 07:58:18 AMQuote from: David McKeown on May 26, 2025, 07:18:06 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 10:04:06 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 25, 2025, 09:58:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2025, 09:08:11 PMA player catching a ball on the 45 from a kick out is a mark, it's been a mark for years, the repercussions at the time for interfering with a mark was always moving the ball forward, so rather than 13 meters it's now 50.. that's all on the player. He'd be so stupid to give that away when knowing that there was always a infraction..
Stop thinking of the ramifications of doing it and start looking at why players are doing it? It's bonkers
I don't think it is always bonkers. It can happen in a wide variety of situations including when a player jumps to contest the kick out and their momentum carries them into the opponent or when they have a different interpretation of how far 4 meters is.
A player falling onto someone isn't deliberately trying to prevent a quick 'mark' or free.. the ref has to know the difference. 4 meters is easy..
A supporters perception on how he sees the rules being applied are not up for debate really.. as the ref will use his own judgement
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here so apologies in advance if I've misunderstood but it's not perception on how rules are being interpreted it's how they are being inconsistently applied that is the problem.
Yes there will always be a human element to interpretation but you want to strive towards a consistent approach as much as possible. Rules that lead to inconsistency between matches are bad enough but rules like this which lead to inconsistency within games can be incredibly frustrating for players supporters management etc. That is further heightened when the inconsistent approach can have significant consequences on a result. For example when the difference in interpretation can result in easy 2 point frees.
Like everyone else referees will make mistakes and shouldn't be criticised for mistakes that are judgement calls. Sometimes mistakes will have significant consequences on matches. You want a coherent set of rules that can reduce errors through reducing inconsistency but also through where possible reducing the impact of errors on the overall result.
The rules are not black and white though.. we could sit in a room and watch 20 examples of 'fouls' and you'd have inconsistencies among everyone one there on what should happen. I've seen it multiple times, you'll view it one way someone else will view it differently
That's right. Hence referees should be able to understand that players or managers might get frustrated at their "interpretation". Moving the ball 50m for a player calling you "a f**king ****" I could understand. Moving the ball 50m because a player shakes their head or throws their arms out (as I've seen this year) is pretty ridiculous.
Just because you can't have 100% consistency doesn't mean you shouldn't still strive for as much consistency as possible. The current rule book doesn't help with that but neither does wildly different interpretations from referees who I presume receive regular group training.
The rules need simplified, Coldrick mentioned this on a podcast recently, when put to him about having two refs, he nailed it with what I've said, there's no consistency as the rules are not defined properly and having two refs with different interpretations of the 'tackle' will just make it a cluster f**k.
As for the dissent, I can only explain how I approach it, I explain at the start so both captains know in advance.. I'll blow for a foul, I'll explain why, I shouldn't have to explain after that. If the player questions me again I move it forward..
The ref (certainly at county level) train and prepare as hard as players do all year, so they put the effort in too, they don't go around shouting at people or tell them they've made a mistake, most if not all ref's will apologise if they genuinely make a mistake or not see something from a angle that had a better view..
With the new rules on top of the ones that were always difficult to manage it's become harder..
Players know the consequences of their actions, and managers now, so the simply thing is to get in with it.
Probably only getting one or two dissent frees in a game now, so they are catching on
Notable this weekend that the refs were not persecuting players for (allegedly) taking 4 1/2 steps.
Hopefully Coldrick and a few others take that on board.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2025, 03:14:37 PMThe rules need simplified, Coldrick mentioned this on a podcast recently, when put to him about having two refs, he nailed it with what I've said, there's no consistency as the rules are not defined properly and having two refs with different interpretations of the 'tackle' will just make it a cluster f**k.
As for the dissent, I can only explain how I approach it, I explain at the start so both captains know in advance.. I'll blow for a foul, I'll explain why, I shouldn't have to explain after that. If the player questions me again I move it forward..
The ref (certainly at county level) train and prepare as hard as players do all year, so they put the effort in too, they don't go around shouting at people or tell them they've made a mistake, most if not all ref's will apologise if they genuinely make a mistake or not see something from a angle that had a better view..
With the new rules on top of the ones that were always difficult to manage it's become harder..
Players know the consequences of their actions, and managers now, so the simply thing is to get in with it.
Probably only getting one or two dissent frees in a game now, so they are catching on
And yet we've piled rules change upon rule change and once the dust settles there'll be calls for more rule changes.
As a ref you've said there is no consistency yet the inter-county ref committee have regularly added to this inconsistency. We had a week were keepers were only allowed 20 secs to take a kick out, that was forgot about a few weeks later, we had a weekend where the steps rules were draconically enforced yet that has all slid away and we're back to the old interpretation once again.
Surely when these interpretations were being foisted on them the refs could have had the courage to say "look are these for the season or are we just going to employ them for a week and then forget about them?".
Have lots of time for Coldrick, I think he's a very sensible and humble referee. He's right that 2 refs would be a disaster, as you said the rule book needs to be tidied up to reduce the amount of intervention a ref has to make in a game. However the vogue at the minute is to cram more ambiguity into the rules.
The keeper thing went from 20 seconds out to 30 seconds and now its actually as many seconds as long as he's not taking the piss. That's not helping that fecking moan every time a keeper puts the ball down! How long ref!
What would help, and this would suit so many people would be to bring in people that have never seen the game before, teach them the rules as per rule book and let them at it...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 27, 2025, 01:27:30 PMThe keeper thing went from 20 seconds out to 30 seconds and now its actually as many seconds as long as he's not taking the piss. That's not helping that fecking moan every time a keeper puts the ball down! How long ref!
What would help, and this would suit so many people would be to bring in people that have never seen the game before, teach them the rules as per rule book and let them at it...
Get Gianni back lads!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2025, 03:14:37 PMThe rules need simplified, Coldrick mentioned this on a podcast recently, when put to him about having two refs, he nailed it with what I've said, there's no consistency as the rules are not defined properly and having two refs with different interpretations of the 'tackle' will just make it a cluster f**k.
Maybe it is as Coldrick says, two refs is a clusterfk, but that was just based on a mini trial. I think now with all that's going on for a ref to oversee he needs at least an active assistant ref on the field, one who can take responsibility for the many mundane things (eg the tap and go) and allow the ref to do the important stuff. The assistant ref can also be consulted with and can be the one who is observing the stuff the ref is not watching. With this you still have the one ref to rule them all.
Quote from: David McKeown on May 26, 2025, 02:32:59 PMJust because you can't have 100% consistency doesn't mean you shouldn't still strive for as much consistency as possible. The current rule book doesn't help with that but neither does wildly different interpretations from referees who I presume receive regular group training.
Any sport with judgement calls will have inconsistent rulings. The objective should be to limit the number of judgement calls. Unfortunately the rule changes have ushered in even more judgement calls than existed in the past.
I'm astounded by the 3 v 3 rule. I would have thought it was a very simple rule: sideline official counts the number of players in the half. Instead they appear to have muddied the water on this most basic rule change. In the games I've watched, it appears the rule is not enforced unless the opposition protests loudly to get the referee's attention. At least that's how the announcers have been presenting it.
That's nuts! Besides abolishing defence, is the intent of the FRC to create anarchy?
Quote from: EoinW on May 28, 2025, 09:08:40 PMQuote from: David McKeown on May 26, 2025, 02:32:59 PMJust because you can't have 100% consistency doesn't mean you shouldn't still strive for as much consistency as possible. The current rule book doesn't help with that but neither does wildly different interpretations from referees who I presume receive regular group training.
Any sport with judgement calls will have inconsistent rulings. The objective should be to limit the number of judgement calls. Unfortunately the rule changes have ushered in even more judgement calls than existed in the past.
I'm astounded by the 3 v 3 rule. I would have thought it was a very simple rule: sideline official counts the number of players in the half. Instead they appear to have muddied the water on this most basic rule change. In the games I've watched, it appears the rule is not enforced unless the opposition protests loudly to get the referee's attention. At least that's how the announcers have been presenting it.
That's nuts! Besides abolishing defence, is the intent of the FRC to create anarchy?
The stupidity of the sanction on the rule was laid bare on Saturday night I thought too. Conaty breached the rule by going back into his own half to receive a pass. Obviously that gave him a big advantage. The sanction. A free on the sideline on the half way line.
5 minutes later Armagh accidentally breached it gaining no real advantage. The result a two point free to Derry in the middle of the pitch infront of the goal.
Enjoyed going to see Tyrone win another All Ireland tonite. Some great fielding by Louth, second half attacking play from Tyrone was unreal, loads end-to-end action and overall another very entertaining game. Thanks again to the rule change committee for saving Gaelic football 🏆
When college basketball introduced the 3 point shot it was made clear that a player fouled while attempting a 3 pointer would get three free throws. I do not know if anyone at the NCAA suggested one 3 point shot from the spot of the foul(rather than free throws) however I am certain that no one suggested that fouls taking place inside the 3 point line could be moved outside and the best shooter could then attempt a 3 point shot.
Sounds ridiculous, yet that is exactly what the FRC has created for Gaelic football. If the free can be moved from the spot of the foul outside the arc then why not allow the option of moving it to the penalty spot for a goal attempt? I know that's ridiculous too but it is basically the same logic.
When we move into the knockout stage of the championship, I fear the FRC is asking for trouble. Some ugly controversy that may taint the entire championship. Roving frees, based on referee judgement calls and other violations which award a 2 point attempt, may end up leaving half the fans feeling cheated.
I do not understand what value the 2 pointer adds to the game when we are flirting with potential negative consequences. Given the offensive domination we've seen this year, abolishing the 2 pointer is the least the FRC should do to bring back some balance to the game.
Keep the 2 pointer but only for scores from play.
The other thing about the 2 point line for frees is that "inside or outside" seems to be quite arbitrary. In basketball if the shadow of the pinky side of your foot is over the line, it's not 3 points. Loads of lads are taking frees with one or both feet over the line and getting two points for it.
Quote from: SaffronSports on May 29, 2025, 12:33:13 AMKeep the 2 pointer but only for scores from play.
This will only encourage more frees outside the arc to prevent attempts of 2 pointers from play
Quote from: gallsman on May 29, 2025, 05:59:04 AMThe other thing about the 2 point line for frees is that "inside or outside" seems to be quite arbitrary. In basketball if the shadow of the pinky side of your foot is over the line, it's not 3 points. Loads of lads are taking frees with one or both feet over the line and getting two points for it.
In County games it's got to be easier with help from the other officials, club games more difficult due to one official and to be honest so fitness levels not up to standard and some pitch markings not great..
Rule of thumb for foot positions when taking a two pointer. Providing he kicks from outside the line but lands in after the ball has been kicked (as long as ball not over line) then that's ok, as the free for a two pointer the player can place the ball on the line not over it.
Off the ground is obvious but when they're taking it from the hands lads are stealing yards as they always do that often take them over the line.
Refs tend to go inside to police ant action in the square. They might be better served going half way only.
What about all the rules now?
Tap and go - good
No pass back to keeper in own half - good
Both easy to ref at all levels.
Everything else in room 101 as they say.
Quote from: The Trap on June 01, 2025, 01:25:38 PMWhat about all the rules now?
Tap and go - good
No pass back to keeper in own half - good
Both easy to ref at all levels.
Everything else in room 101 as they say.
Slabbering to the ref is grand too
Quote from: The Trap on June 01, 2025, 01:25:38 PMWhat about all the rules now?
Tap and go - good
No pass back to keeper in own half - good
Both easy to ref at all levels.
Everything else in room 101 as they say.
I change it to you can hand pass to a keeper but he can't hand-pass it on. That way a keeper can bust out of defence and boot/thread passes up the pitch.
Quote from: EoinW on May 28, 2025, 11:07:52 PMWhen college basketball introduced the 3 point shot it was made clear that a player fouled while attempting a 3 pointer would get three free throws. I do not know if anyone at the NCAA suggested one 3 point shot from the spot of the foul(rather than free throws) however I am certain that no one suggested that fouls taking place inside the 3 point line could be moved outside and the best shooter could then attempt a 3 point shot.
Sounds ridiculous, yet that is exactly what the FRC has created for Gaelic football. If the free can be moved from the spot of the foul outside the arc then why not allow the option of moving it to the penalty spot for a goal attempt? I know that's ridiculous too but it is basically the same logic.
When we move into the knockout stage of the championship, I fear the FRC is asking for trouble. Some ugly controversy that may taint the entire championship. Roving frees, based on referee judgement calls and other violations which award a 2 point attempt, may end up leaving half the fans feeling cheated.
I do not understand what value the 2 pointer adds to the game when we are flirting with potential negative consequences. Given the offensive domination we've seen this year, abolishing the 2 pointer is the least the FRC should do to bring back some balance to the game.
I have concerns around the impact the 2-pointer will have, but I'm definitely coming round to 2-pointers from play.
But to clarify - you can't move a ball back outside the arc for a foul which has taken place inside the arc. What actually happens is that when a 3-up, midfield mark or dissent transgression occurs and the ref can move it forward by 50 yds, the team awarded the free choose not to take it forward the entire 50 yds, but instead take it to the edge of the arc, where the more difficult kick is now worth 2 points.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2025, 06:55:50 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on May 29, 2025, 12:33:13 AMKeep the 2 pointer but only for scores from play.
This will only encourage more frees outside the arc to prevent attempts of 2 pointers from play
I don't think that would happen, but if it did, surely the ref can take appropriate action in terms of additional disciplinary actions, cards etc, to stamp it out straight away?
In any case, there's probably little advantage in fouling as the maths would probably give a one point free from around arc line an expected value very similar to a 2pt shot from play. When Rory beggan scores 38 pts during a league campaign, it tells you something is off....
Teams will take cards all day rather than give away more scores..
I have said that scoring from outside the arc should be from play to get the two points but I would definitely see an increase on the fouls outside the arc
I have no issue with a foul committed outside the arc being punished by a free potentially worth two points. Say a lad is trying for a two pointer and gets shoved over, the defender shouldn't be rewarded by halving the points on offer.
The taking of frees back outside the arc has to go though, or at the very least, a free advanced by the referee can't be worth two points.
On the kickout mark, they need to get rid of the unimpeded steps rule. Simply too easy for lads to catch a ball and run into an opponent who's still trying to figure out where the ball is. Play getting moved up then brought back out for a two pointer is nonsense. By all means play on if you wish but the mark is sufficient reward for catching a ball at your own 45. Or simply make it the same as the advanced mark (which I hate) - let the player go on a bit but if no advantage, back to the mark.
The rules are working as a whole at the minute, so why not leave as is? Well until coaches find a way to un-work it anyhow.
I didn't like the 2 point concept at the start, but as part of the overall combination it seems to have improved the game.
Define "working"? Higher scoring? I would much prefer a few scores came off the board if it meant we saw fewer nonsense tap over frees for incidents or technical fouls that occurred half a mile away.
Quote from: gallsman on June 03, 2025, 09:13:54 AMDefine "working"? Higher scoring? I would much prefer a few scores came off the board if it meant we saw fewer nonsense tap over frees for incidents or technical fouls that occurred half a mile away.
"Working" as in adult football has gone from being one of the most boring sports on this earth, to being very entertaining.
Nothing to do with an increase in scoring. Everything to do with the fact that positivity is being rewarded, or perhaps just that negative possession football provides so few advantages compared to a year ago.
EDIT: there's a fascination among Gaels for focusing on aspects of the game that could be improved. It's always been there I suppose, hence rule changes and adaptations every year since forever.
But my basic, core point about the rule changes is this: when put together as a group they've increased entertainment value by tenfold. So people should, for now, focus on the positives. Over the coming years, coaches will find ways to abuse the rules to their own advantage, and they'll need tweaked. But one thing we really don't need - for now - is cherrypicking a handful of rules to change based on what you think ideal football should be. We had ideal (or nearly ideal) football in the noughties, then Jimmy and Co destroyed the game. Devising / relaxing rules to take us back to re-enable those ideal football conditions probably won't have the outcome you're wishing for. For Jimmy and Co are ready to pounce and destroy our game again. They can't help themselves.
I can now watch and ENJOY football matches as a neutral.
Last few years I couldn't.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 03, 2025, 09:42:21 AMI can now watch and ENJOY football matches as a neutral.
Last few years I couldn't.
what is more enjoyable about football this year is that if a team is 6, 7 points up with say 10 minutes to go, it's still a contest right to the wire given the ability to take the 2 pointers.
In other years teams would have just parked the bus inside the 14, no goals at any cost and held out for the win more often than not.
I also think the 50 metre penalty for dissent etc is a blessing and something hurling may need to look at or an alternative to that. I'd say that rule has improved the refereeing experience at club level in particular.
It might soften the cough of a lot of sideline gobshítes.
Harsh punishments for dissent I've no issue with whatsoever. The abuse ref's get has been a blight on the game for far too long. It's the "innocent" things where, as mentioned above, someone gets punished for interfering with a mark that may not have had the slightest clue about but ends up gifting their opponents two points that is problematic. If a lad catches a ball over someone else contesting the ball and then deliberately runs through his opponent who has barely landed back to earth, that should not be punished as interference.
There was an interesting one in the Dublin-Armagh game on Sunday. An Armagh player (McQuillan possibly) caught a Cluxton kickout but landed out over the sideline as a result of contact while catching the ball. Debatable whether it was a genuine contest for the ball or a bit of a push, but probably not enough to give a free (from what I saw live, haven't seen it since.)
The Armagh player kept the ball. Now, he may have been given a free for the push, but it appeared to be a mark and Fitzmaurice started waffling on about him getting the mark in accordance "with the spirit of the rule". That sort of thing is absolute nonsense that they can't be allowed make up on the fly. It's either an Armagh free or a Dublin line ball.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 03, 2025, 10:28:15 AMQuote from: Rossfan on June 03, 2025, 09:42:21 AMI can now watch and ENJOY football matches as a neutral.
Last few years I couldn't.
what is more enjoyable about football this year is that if a team is 6, 7 points up with say 10 minutes to go, it's still a contest right to the wire given the ability to take the 2 pointers.
In other years teams would have just parked the bus inside the 14, no goals at any cost and held out for the win more often than not.
I also think the 50 metre penalty for dissent etc is a blessing and something hurling may need to look at or an alternative to that. I'd say that rule has improved the refereeing experience at club level in particular.
It might soften the cough of a lot of sideline gobshítes.
Armagh fans have known that feeling for years anyway :D
Quote from: thewobbler on June 03, 2025, 09:28:59 AMQuote from: gallsman on June 03, 2025, 09:13:54 AMDefine "working"? Higher scoring? I would much prefer a few scores came off the board if it meant we saw fewer nonsense tap over frees for incidents or technical fouls that occurred half a mile away.
"Working" as in adult football has gone from being one of the most boring sports on this earth, to being very entertaining.
Nothing to do with an increase in scoring. Everything to do with the fact that positivity is being rewarded, or perhaps just that negative possession football provides so few advantages compared to a year ago.
EDIT: there's a fascination among Gaels for focusing on aspects of the game that could be improved. It's always been there I suppose, hence rule changes and adaptations every year since forever.
But my basic, core point about the rule changes is this: when put together as a group they've increased entertainment value by tenfold. So people should, for now, focus on the positives. Over the coming years, coaches will find ways to abuse the rules to their own advantage, and they'll need tweaked. But one thing we really don't need - for now - is cherrypicking a handful of rules to change based on what you think ideal football should be. We had ideal (or nearly ideal) football in the noughties, then Jimmy and Co destroyed the game. Devising / relaxing rules to take us back to re-enable those ideal football conditions probably won't have the outcome you're wishing for. For Jimmy and Co are ready to pounce and destroy our game again. They can't help themselves.
I consider soccer/football to be the most boring sport in the world. Yet it's also the most popular. Point being: it's all subjective.
"cherrypicking a handful of rules to change based on what you think ideal"
Isn't that what you're doing, supporting rule changes that you think are ideal?
While we've seen some good rational arguments for or against some of the rules, we've also seen alot of "I was bored last year and now I'm not bored". That carries no weight.
What's wrong with simply giving players yellow cards for dissent? Giving teams a 2 point free for dissent is ridiculous. Of course I think deciding championship games on penalties is ridiculous too. I must just be old.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2025, 06:55:50 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on May 29, 2025, 12:33:13 AMKeep the 2 pointer but only for scores from play.
This will only encourage more frees outside the arc to prevent attempts of 2 pointers from play
Why? Past year's a foul outside the arc would only be rewarded with a 1 point free. Did we see a plague of outside fouling? The team in possession doesn't have to attempt the free. They can simply retain possession.
Quote from: EoinW on June 03, 2025, 11:30:32 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2025, 06:55:50 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on May 29, 2025, 12:33:13 AMKeep the 2 pointer but only for scores from play.
This will only encourage more frees outside the arc to prevent attempts of 2 pointers from play
Why? Past year's a foul outside the arc would only be rewarded with a 1 point free. Did we see a plague of outside fouling? The team in possession doesn't have to attempt the free. They can simply retain possession.
You didn't have the 2 point threat last year so there was no advantage to fouling outside the arc.
I would trial only 1 point for a free, come down hard if the foul is cynical with cards etc.
A free from the top of the arc is a handy enough kick for most club free takers, intercounty it's easy barring a big wind.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 03, 2025, 09:28:59 AMQuote from: gallsman on June 03, 2025, 09:13:54 AMDefine "working"? Higher scoring? I would much prefer a few scores came off the board if it meant we saw fewer nonsense tap over frees for incidents or technical fouls that occurred half a mile away.
"Working" as in adult football has gone from being one of the most boring sports on this earth, to being very entertaining.
Nothing to do with an increase in scoring. Everything to do with the fact that positivity is being rewarded, or perhaps just that negative possession football provides so few advantages compared to a year ago.
EDIT: there's a fascination among Gaels for focusing on aspects of the game that could be improved. It's always been there I suppose, hence rule changes and adaptations every year since forever.
But my basic, core point about the rule changes is this: when put together as a group they've increased entertainment value by tenfold. So people should, for now, focus on the positives. Over the coming years, coaches will find ways to abuse the rules to their own advantage, and they'll need tweaked. But one thing we really don't need - for now - is cherrypicking a handful of rules to change based on what you think ideal football should be. We had ideal (or nearly ideal) football in the noughties, then Jimmy and Co destroyed the game. Devising / relaxing rules to take us back to re-enable those ideal football conditions probably won't have the outcome you're wishing for. For Jimmy and Co are ready to pounce and destroy our game again. They can't help themselves.
The current rules are on trial until October, whatever is decided in October will be in place for the next 5 years - I think we'd all be remiss if we weren't thinking about what tweaks can be made to the new rules that will enhance the game even further, be that simple changes that make refereeing it easier or tweaks to make it less demanding on players, more enjoyable for players or even attempt to close off in advance, potential for coaches to game the rules as we know they will (it's their job in fairness).
Hopefully they include the ref's this time in their assessment of how the rules are viewed, they didn't when setting them up, wouldn't surprise me if they didn't include them again though
I am softening my views on the new rules more so when I'm watching on TV rather than at the games but I still would vote against them. I think there's too many negatives to them. For example I think there's ability to gain an easy two points because of contact when you land after catching a mark on your own 45 devalues a well worked 3 point goal.
I also think there's a lot of confirmation bias to them. We've had some very good games this year which were good games because you had two high quality evenly matched teams going at it. Those who favour the rules seem to put this down to being because of the rules exclusively ignoring that we had equally good if not better games last year. The Connacht final being a prime example. Strangely though when we have bad games those same people aren't suggesting they were bad because of the rules exclusively.
The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win and the rules shouldn't be in place to impact on that. These rules seemed to be tailored towards making the game more of a lottery and therefore more exciting. I'm not convinced that's should be the purpose of the rules.
My final concern remains that we haven't been able to implement the rules in isolation and there seems to be no consensus on nearly every new rule. So we may be in a scenario come the end of the year whereby we don't implement one or two of the rules but as a result we end up with unintended consequences in respect of the other rules which we are then stuck with. For example we remove the two point rule and we see far more tactical fouling as MR2 has alluded to. Or as we saw during the league going 4 v 3 resulting in defences not being down 2 players on their own free kicks.
I know I may be in the minority on this and it certainly wouldn't be the first time but still on balance I don't like the new rules and don't feel that overall they have improved or enhanced the game.
The new rules have obliterated the mass defence tactic which was a blight on the game, no issue at all teams wanting to limit opposition scores, but celebrity coaches writing articles that it was their ambition to coach a game that ended 0-0 was the direction of travel
In 2019 there was a Donegal senior league game ended 3-2 and an U14 Ulster colleges game that ended 2-1
Calling it rules enhancement from the outset was an inverted pyramid of piffle, but I think the game has been enhanced with not much tweaking left to do
The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win
David honestly I'm not trying to be rude or poke a fire.
But your various takes on the new rules combined with this statement, suggests you don't really follow sport like most people would. You don't gain your enjoyment from competition or surprise or novelty or luck. You gain your enjoyment from watching pre-ordained plans unfold exactly as expected.
Which is okay I suppose. But as an approach it's more suited to board games than team sport.
* kickouts: I'd change to the small arc. Still a risk to go short with no keeper involvement (the long kick just comes down to too much luck for me)
* 2 points from a free, scrap it, especially if a ball has been moved in 50m and can be brought out.
* handing the ball back. Just set on the ground would do, as long as the player holding it doesn't act the bollocks, no?
Keep the rest. Football as a spectacle now is day and night. It's that exciting atm, as a spectator you want another round of games this week, not a two week break
The thought of going back to mass defences / crab football would give you the jitters.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 04, 2025, 10:25:08 AM The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win
David honestly I'm not trying to be rude or poke a fire.
But your various takes on the new rules combined with this statement, suggests you don't really follow sport like most people would. You don't gain your enjoyment from competition or surprise or novelty or luck. You gain your enjoyment from watching pre-ordained plans unfold exactly as expected.
Which is okay I suppose. But as an approach it's more suited to board games than team sport.
The highlighted statement by David is exactly how every sporting purist should feel. I consider that paragraph of his excellent assessment to be the best. Which just means I agree with it because I'm also a sport purist.
What's the purpose of any sport competition? I'd say it is to determine the best team. 21st century fans believe it is to be entertained.
A point was made on another post about how great it is that 8 point leads are no longer safe. A team can no longer comfortably protect a lead the final 10 minutes of a game. Is that fair that a team earns a victory by being the better team over 60 minutes then has it stolen away at the end?
I believe a competition should be fair and part of that fairness is that the best team wins. Otherwise you are cheating the athletes. They play Gaelic football at the county level because they want to be the best and they want their county to be champion. They don't want to win that honour in a lottery, they want to earn it! They could go shoot craps if they just wanted something based on luck.
For those who wish to be entertained: there are millions of ways to be entertained in your life. It isn't essential for sport to serve that purpose.
In my lifetime, I've seen every sport I cared about being hijacked by people who want to be entertained. Because it's all about money and because the western mentality is all about "growing things" governing bodies sell out as they see the potential of making more money by doing so. The GAA is also guilty of this.
Thus tradition gets tossed out the window.
Seriously, why can't you people leave sports as they were intended to be - a fair competition to determine who is the best - and go get your entertainment elsewhere? The thing is, sports competitions can be fair and entertaining. It doesn't need to be one or the other.
The real fans understand and appreciate this. The ones looking to sit in front of their tv to kill 2 hours don't get it.
Why can't the best team win with the enhanced rules?
Who wants to go back to the pre 2025 chess like game?
Frankly EoinW if you were any more over the place with that response, you could play in Cavan's back line.
You present a scenario in which a team incapable of protecting their lead, is still the better team, and deserves their victory. And rather than concentrate on that team's inability to defend and/or counter attack, you blame the rule book.
Why play for 70 mins ffs. Just have 5 minute games. Or maybe neutral judges who can award additional points for "being better".
——
As for "growing things", I just don't think you understand how perilous a state football had entered.
The game wasn't just stagnating. It was dwindling.
The single most important thing a sport has to do to maintain its stature is to always have a line of replacements for those about to retire. And I don't mean just players: players, officials, administrators, supporters, sponsors.
You talk about obsession with growth, and you mentioned it multiple times before.
The game was retracting, and only surviving because of tribal loyalties. But look across attendances for some of the traditionally well supported counties like Mayo, Tyrone, Down, Kildare over the past couple of years and there's an obvious pattern that tribal loyalty was wearing thin.
Surely you can see this? Surely you can accept this. It's not about growth. Not about entertainment. Those are byproducts of a sport that people want to be involved in.
Or would you have preferred to sit in the dark and allow the sport to die?
On one side you have David mckeown and Eoinw making their points in a balanced way but the likes of the wobbler, rossfan and truthsayer just want to tell people how they should feel.
I don't like being told how to feel. I think a lot of the issues you have brought up in your last post Wobbler have very little to do with the way the game is played and more to to with the way the GAA is run.
People are sick of everything being money orientated. Every decision the GAA makes is with money as the primary focus. I grew up listening to the jibes about the Grab All Association and never paid much attention but my God it is so true nowadays.
People harp on about having our game back. No we haven't. We have a totally new game and a sport primarily for the few who make it to county level. Even at u17 and u20 there are B and C competitions meaning seasons drag on and lads play less and less club.
If you want to go back to the good old days then play knock out championships like in the 90s, let county players have lives and play club football. Let club football prosper again. Let volunteers on the ground see the fruits of their labour with the players they produce playing with the club.
There may be a short term increase in entertainment for some people but these new rules won't fix the problems that exist in football in the long term.
If you take entertainment out of sport, the sport won't last. Simple as that.
And that's without going into the issue following the GAA would have regardless of the new rules. You already have a skewed structure and completely unfair disparity of resources (both population and financial). So if you're looking at the GAA with a purist viewpoint, the issues of the new rules are well down the list of issues. And it is tradition that is keeping some of that in place.
Also I think you are confusing fairness. The fairness is in the fact both teams have fair opportunity to win the game playing by the same rules for the entirety of the game. If one decides to go negative for 10 mins and manages to screw up an 8 point lead. Thats on them. They had a fair platform to play from and can have no excuses.
I asked 2 questions, then some lad said that was "telling people how to feel".
Some might like the pre 2025 chessball, some might want to go back to the past but most want a forward looking organisation promoting two exciting sports.
I'm one of that majority and make no apologies for it.
Quote from: The Trap on June 04, 2025, 12:35:01 PMOn one side you have David mckeown and Eoinw making their points in a balanced way but the likes of the wobbler, rossfan and truthsayer just want to tell people how they should feel.
I don't like being told how to feel. I think a lot of the issues you have brought up in your last post Wobbler have very little to do with the way the game is played and more to to with the way the GAA is run.
People are sick of everything being money orientated. Every decision the GAA makes is with money as the primary focus. I grew up listening to the jibes about the Grab All Association and never paid much attention but my God it is so true nowadays.
People harp on about having our game back. No we haven't. We have a totally new game and a sport primarily for the few who make it to county level. Even at u17 and u20 there are B and C competitions meaning seasons drag on and lads play less and less club.
If you want to go back to the good old days then play knock out championships like in the 90s, let county players have lives and play club football. Let club football prosper again. Let volunteers on the ground see the fruits of their labour with the players they produce playing with the club.
There may be a short term increase in entertainment for some people but these new rules won't fix the problems that exist in football in the long term.
It seems you could find a place in that Cavan back line too.
Within two paragraphs you condemn the GAA for now having money as its primary focus, then decry the formation of B and C competitions at u17 and u20 level.
Can I tell you something? Competitive underage squads cost county boards a fortune to run. Elongated seasons at u17 and u20 level cost county boards two fortunes to run, and with almost zero kickback from sponsors and ticket sales should they go all the way in the lower tier competitions.
(By the way I'd get rid of both backdoor competitions, there's no need)
But to be honest, this "throw enough shit and see what sticks" approach to condemning the GAA is so frustrating to read. It's not balanced. It's not fair.
And one thing I can tell you with all sincerity is I've never confused the rules of the game with the structures of the association.
I'm just glad that the latter has recognised that if it hadn't taken control of the former, it was going to be the end of the road for both.
Quote from: EoinW on June 04, 2025, 11:49:29 AMQuote from: thewobbler on June 04, 2025, 10:25:08 AM The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win
David honestly I'm not trying to be rude or poke a fire.
But your various takes on the new rules combined with this statement, suggests you don't really follow sport like most people would. You don't gain your enjoyment from competition or surprise or novelty or luck. You gain your enjoyment from watching pre-ordained plans unfold exactly as expected.
Which is okay I suppose. But as an approach it's more suited to board games than team sport.
The highlighted statement by David is exactly how every sporting purist should feel. I consider that paragraph of his excellent assessment to be the best. Which just means I agree with it because I'm also a sport purist.
What's the purpose of any sport competition? I'd say it is to determine the best team. 21st century fans believe it is to be entertained.
A point was made on another post about how great it is that 8 point leads are no longer safe. A team can no longer comfortably protect a lead the final 10 minutes of a game. Is that fair that a team earns a victory by being the better team over 60 minutes then has it stolen away at the end?
I believe a competition should be fair and part of that fairness is that the best team wins. Otherwise you are cheating the athletes. They play Gaelic football at the county level because they want to be the best and they want their county to be champion. They don't want to win that honour in a lottery, they want to earn it! They could go shoot craps if they just wanted something based on luck.
For those who wish to be entertained: there are millions of ways to be entertained in your life. It isn't essential for sport to serve that purpose.
In my lifetime, I've seen every sport I cared about being hijacked by people who want to be entertained. Because it's all about money and because the western mentality is all about "growing things" governing bodies sell out as they see the potential of making more money by doing so. The GAA is also guilty of this.
Thus tradition gets tossed out the window.
Seriously, why can't you people leave sports as they were intended to be - a fair competition to determine who is the best - and go get your entertainment elsewhere? The thing is, sports competitions can be fair and entertaining. It doesn't need to be one or the other.
The real fans understand and appreciate this. The ones looking to sit in front of their tv to kill 2 hours don't get it.
I'm not sure about the point you think you are making, but if the game is 70 minutes long then you need to be the better team over the entire 70 minutes, not just the 60 and then park the bus.
I'm pleased we can agree on some things Wobbler 😊.
Regarding the new rules here is my personal take on the games at the weekend.
Cork v Kerry poor game ruined by the poor application of some of the rules.
Tyrone v Mayo poor game because Tyrone were so flat and even the rules couldn't make this one exciting.
Derry v Galway excellent game. Derry brought great intensity and the ref let both teams at it and there was loads of contact that has been missing from many games. No doubt the rules added to this game and it would be hard to argue against anything if all games were like this. This was 2 division one teams going head to head in an almost knock out game which added to it.
Dublin v Armagh was just OK. Rules didn't add to this one with 3 v 3 infractions and too stop start. Plus a few forced 2 point efforts that didn't look good. Now the Rian ONeill point was class and maybe showed that 2 pointers outside 45 could be better
Saw highlights of Monaghan v Clare and it was a real 2 point fayre with a gale behind you and that's not really exciting.
Down v Louth highlights looked really good but didn't see full game.
So just like every other year there is a mixed bag.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 04, 2025, 10:25:08 AM The other issue I have is I'm always of the opinion that the best team should win
David honestly I'm not trying to be rude or poke a fire.
But your various takes on the new rules combined with this statement, suggests you don't really follow sport like most people would. You don't gain your enjoyment from competition or surprise or novelty or luck. You gain your enjoyment from watching pre-ordained plans unfold exactly as expected.
Which is okay I suppose. But as an approach it's more suited to board games than team sport.
I don't take that as an insult nor do I think it's unfair. I've said on here before that two of my favourite experiences were the Dublin v Donegal All Ireland (semi or final) in McGuinness first run and getting to watch the Dublin v Kerry All Ireland final (that Cluxton won at the death with the huge free) in the company of an All Ireland winning coach/manager.
So I do enjoy the tactical battles probably more than most.
I blame it on growing up watching Serie A and NFL on channel 4.
That said I gain the most enjoyment when deserving teams win by being better and not when they geta lucky bounce or referring decision. I like to see skill rewarded and genuine competition rather than the artificial harmonising these rules lead too. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. There's no right way to enjoy sport. I know I'm far from alone in my views. I'm probably in the minority but if I then it's probably a sizeable minority.
Also I'm just back from Europes second largest board game conference so there's obviously some merit to your point.
I like the unpredictability now that it brings, on a national stage it's great in a way (for me) as we in Antrim will not be at the business end of things so we can view the games differently as opposed to those that have personal interests due to they have a chance..
Going back to the brilliant Dublin teams, they might have bored people due their consistency, but I liked their ability to grind out the wins considering they had very poor opposition during Leinster. Though that goes against my view of enjoying the unpredictable side of things now lol
Now with the new rules it's bucking the nature of how teams tactical approach it, and a spell of dominance in a game can blow teams away or reel them in!
I was, and for some of the rules as a ref think the change was extreme, from club level it's very difficult, but, I'm acclimatising to it, and dare say enjoying the movement of the game.
Not sure how it will be in the white hot atmosphere of championship though
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2025, 07:32:59 AMI like the unpredictability now that it brings, on a national stage it's great in a way (for me) as we in Antrim will not be at the business end of things so we can view the games differently as opposed to those that have personal interests due to they have a chance..
Going back to the brilliant Dublin teams, they might have bored people due their consistency, but I liked their ability to grind out the wins considering they had very poor opposition during Leinster. Though that goes against my view of enjoying the unpredictable side of things now lol
Now with the new rules it's bucking the nature of how teams tactical approach it, and a spell of dominance in a game can blow teams away or reel them in!
I was, and for some of the rules as a ref think the change was extreme, from club level it's very difficult, but, I'm acclimatising to it, and dare say enjoying the movement of the game.
Not sure how it will be in the white hot atmosphere of championship though
Will you always have assistants in Championship? That should help a bit.
Quote from: SaffronSports on June 05, 2025, 09:59:44 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2025, 07:32:59 AMI like the unpredictability now that it brings, on a national stage it's great in a way (for me) as we in Antrim will not be at the business end of things so we can view the games differently as opposed to those that have personal interests due to they have a chance..
Going back to the brilliant Dublin teams, they might have bored people due their consistency, but I liked their ability to grind out the wins considering they had very poor opposition during Leinster. Though that goes against my view of enjoying the unpredictable side of things now lol
Now with the new rules it's bucking the nature of how teams tactical approach it, and a spell of dominance in a game can blow teams away or reel them in!
I was, and for some of the rules as a ref think the change was extreme, from club level it's very difficult, but, I'm acclimatising to it, and dare say enjoying the movement of the game.
Not sure how it will be in the white hot atmosphere of championship though
Will you always have assistants in Championship? That should help a bit.
Who knows, the group games would be thight enough with the amount of ref's available, not enough mic's either
IMO the new rules have been a resounding success, esp at club level. More room for forwards, more discipline, less of the endless handpassing around the 45. One possible caveat is the now critical influence of the breeze; maybe the 2pt distance should be further out?
Quote from: befair on June 05, 2025, 12:59:41 PMIMO the new rules have been a resounding success, esp at club level. More room for forwards, more discipline, less of the endless handpassing around the 45. One possible caveat is the now critical influence of the breeze; maybe the 2pt distance should be further out?
How far would you go? Outside the 45m line? Most are taken from near the middle anyway so maybe no need for the arc?
Quote from: thewobbler on June 04, 2025, 01:07:42 PMQuote from: The Trap on June 04, 2025, 12:35:01 PMOn one side you have David mckeown and Eoinw making their points in a balanced way but the likes of the wobbler, rossfan and truthsayer just want to tell people how they should feel.
I don't like being told how to feel. I think a lot of the issues you have brought up in your last post Wobbler have very little to do with the way the game is played and more to to with the way the GAA is run.
People are sick of everything being money orientated. Every decision the GAA makes is with money as the primary focus. I grew up listening to the jibes about the Grab All Association and never paid much attention but my God it is so true nowadays.
People harp on about having our game back. No we haven't. We have a totally new game and a sport primarily for the few who make it to county level. Even at u17 and u20 there are B and C competitions meaning seasons drag on and lads play less and less club.
If you want to go back to the good old days then play knock out championships like in the 90s, let county players have lives and play club football. Let club football prosper again. Let volunteers on the ground see the fruits of their labour with the players they produce playing with the club.
There may be a short term increase in entertainment for some people but these new rules won't fix the problems that exist in football in the long term.
It seems you could find a place in that Cavan back line too.
Within two paragraphs you condemn the GAA for now having money as its primary focus, then decry the formation of B and C competitions at u17 and u20 level.
Can I tell you something? Competitive underage squads cost county boards a fortune to run. Elongated seasons at u17 and u20 level cost county boards two fortunes to run, and with almost zero kickback from sponsors and ticket sales should they go all the way in the lower tier competitions.
(By the way I'd get rid of both backdoor competitions, there's no need)
But to be honest, this "throw enough shit and see what sticks" approach to condemning the GAA is so frustrating to read. It's not balanced. It's not fair.
And one thing I can tell you with all sincerity is I've never confused the rules of the game with the structures of the association.
I'm just glad that the latter has recognised that if it hadn't taken control of the former, it was going to be the end of the road for both.
I've got to see this Cavan back line!
Three Cavan group games. None televised. So much for that idea!
Same 0/3 for poor Clare. Got any scoop on the Clare back line?
Even as someone who loved the old version of football, it is only now the new rules are in-place that I appreciate how much better the game is for it.
The key improvements for me have been:
2-point arc: IMO, the art of long range point scoring is the #1 skill spectators want to see when watching a game. The pushback on this rule has surprised me - the reward of the 2-pointer has removed the shackles of 'high percentages shots only' we used to see and has led to more shots & scores, particularly from positions on the pitch you wouldn't have dreamed of seeing under the old rules. I like that they tweaked a 45 only equaling one point, and would still like to see the loophole of a keeper getting a fingertip on a 2point shot being removed.
3 up / 4 back: Mass defenses was a blight on the game as a spectacle. New structure is geared towards aiding the traditional elements of the game. There's no doubt its favoring attacking play - more space for forwards to take a man on / shoot, and defenders have to get back to actual man to man defending.
Stop clock: I like the principle of the ref. stopping the watch - particularly for teams trying to cynically run the clock down at end of games / during black cards. Hooter adds enormous drama to final plays, and it also takes the pressure off referees. Logistically, the GAA have a lot of work to do in implementing this for all intercounty games and its slightly farcical non-TV games have different parameters to televised games within the same championship. Only a runner for county games and not club obviously.
Solo & go has been great for the flow of the game & respect to referees seems to be improving as a result of the dissent rules.
I'm conflicted on the Kickout. High fielding and aerial duels are one of the most impressive skills in our game and is something we lost for a while. But is the middle of the field becoming too condensed now and leading to too many AFL-style scrums? If the KO went back to the way it was, there's jeopardy in popping it out to the corner back as the GK is no longer in play. It would create more space for the GK to place the ball in space rather than on top of a crowd. You'll still get plenty of aerial contests without the scrums. There seems to be a trend of it being easier to win the opposition kickout than your own, which is where the lack of control is frustrating for teams.
The 50m penalty for obstruction after a mark needs reviewed - the player in possession is getting too much protection IMO and when the player in possession intentionally runs into the closest opposition player, the referee should penalize this more.
I think we've almost got the rules right - credit to the FRC here.
Quote from: ulstergael on June 05, 2025, 07:48:37 PMEven as someone who loved the old version of football, it is only now the new rules are in-place that I appreciate how much better the game is for it.
The key improvements for me have been:
2-point arc: IMO, the art of long range point scoring is the #1 skill spectators want to see when watching a game. The pushback on this rule has surprised me - the reward of the 2-pointer has removed the shackles of 'high percentages shots only' we used to see and has led to more shots & scores, particularly from positions on the pitch you wouldn't have dreamed of seeing under the old rules. I like that they tweaked a 45 only equaling one point, and would still like to see the loophole of a keeper getting a fingertip on a 2point shot being removed.
3 up / 4 back: Mass defenses was a blight on the game as a spectacle. New structure is geared towards aiding the traditional elements of the game. There's no doubt its favoring attacking play - more space for forwards to take a man on / shoot, and defenders have to get back to actual man to man defending.
Stop clock: I like the principle of the ref. stopping the watch - particularly for teams trying to cynically run the clock down at end of games / during black cards. Hooter adds enormous drama to final plays, and it also takes the pressure off referees. Logistically, the GAA have a lot of work to do in implementing this for all intercounty games and its slightly farcical non-TV games have different parameters to televised games within the same championship. Only a runner for county games and not club obviously.
Solo & go has been great for the flow of the game & respect to referees seems to be improving as a result of the dissent rules.
I'm conflicted on the Kickout. High fielding and aerial duels are one of the most impressive skills in our game and is something we lost for a while. But is the middle of the field becoming too condensed now and leading to too many AFL-style scrums? If the KO went back to the way it was, there's jeopardy in popping it out to the corner back as the GK is no longer in play. It would create more space for the GK to place the ball in space rather than on top of a crowd. You'll still get plenty of aerial contests without the scrums. There seems to be a trend of it being easier to win the opposition kickout than your own, which is where the lack of control is frustrating for teams.
The 50m penalty for obstruction after a mark needs reviewed - the player in possession is getting too much protection IMO and when the player in possession intentionally runs into the closest opposition player, the referee should penalize this more.
I think we've almost got the rules right - credit to the FRC here.
Completely agree with everything.
I recall not so long ago the hysteria on this board against the rules... I have followed the game since the early '70s and never seen it in a worse state than the last decade. Thanks to the FCR for saving Gaelic football.. has been a great year so far...
From Sociology lecture:
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--HERBERT SPENCER
Quote from: Minus15 on June 05, 2025, 10:54:54 PMQuote from: ulstergael on June 05, 2025, 07:48:37 PMEven as someone who loved the old version of football, it is only now the new rules are in-place that I appreciate how much better the game is for it.
The key improvements for me have been:
2-point arc: IMO, the art of long range point scoring is the #1 skill spectators want to see when watching a game. The pushback on this rule has surprised me - the reward of the 2-pointer has removed the shackles of 'high percentages shots only' we used to see and has led to more shots & scores, particularly from positions on the pitch you wouldn't have dreamed of seeing under the old rules. I like that they tweaked a 45 only equaling one point, and would still like to see the loophole of a keeper getting a fingertip on a 2point shot being removed.
3 up / 4 back: Mass defenses was a blight on the game as a spectacle. New structure is geared towards aiding the traditional elements of the game. There's no doubt its favoring attacking play - more space for forwards to take a man on / shoot, and defenders have to get back to actual man to man defending.
Stop clock: I like the principle of the ref. stopping the watch - particularly for teams trying to cynically run the clock down at end of games / during black cards. Hooter adds enormous drama to final plays, and it also takes the pressure off referees. Logistically, the GAA have a lot of work to do in implementing this for all intercounty games and its slightly farcical non-TV games have different parameters to televised games within the same championship. Only a runner for county games and not club obviously.
Solo & go has been great for the flow of the game & respect to referees seems to be improving as a result of the dissent rules.
I'm conflicted on the Kickout. High fielding and aerial duels are one of the most impressive skills in our game and is something we lost for a while. But is the middle of the field becoming too condensed now and leading to too many AFL-style scrums? If the KO went back to the way it was, there's jeopardy in popping it out to the corner back as the GK is no longer in play. It would create more space for the GK to place the ball in space rather than on top of a crowd. You'll still get plenty of aerial contests without the scrums. There seems to be a trend of it being easier to win the opposition kickout than your own, which is where the lack of control is frustrating for teams.
The 50m penalty for obstruction after a mark needs reviewed - the player in possession is getting too much protection IMO and when the player in possession intentionally runs into the closest opposition player, the referee should penalize this more.
I think we've almost got the rules right - credit to the FRC here.
Completely agree with everything.
Me too, I'd just add my pet bugbear on the getting rid of all 2 pt frees and we're laughing!
Quote from: onefineday on June 06, 2025, 02:31:49 AMQuote from: Minus15 on June 05, 2025, 10:54:54 PMQuote from: ulstergael on June 05, 2025, 07:48:37 PMEven as someone who loved the old version of football, it is only now the new rules are in-place that I appreciate how much better the game is for it.
The key improvements for me have been:
2-point arc: IMO, the art of long range point scoring is the #1 skill spectators want to see when watching a game. The pushback on this rule has surprised me - the reward of the 2-pointer has removed the shackles of 'high percentages shots only' we used to see and has led to more shots & scores, particularly from positions on the pitch you wouldn't have dreamed of seeing under the old rules. I like that they tweaked a 45 only equaling one point, and would still like to see the loophole of a keeper getting a fingertip on a 2point shot being removed.
3 up / 4 back: Mass defenses was a blight on the game as a spectacle. New structure is geared towards aiding the traditional elements of the game. There's no doubt its favoring attacking play - more space for forwards to take a man on / shoot, and defenders have to get back to actual man to man defending.
Stop clock: I like the principle of the ref. stopping the watch - particularly for teams trying to cynically run the clock down at end of games / during black cards. Hooter adds enormous drama to final plays, and it also takes the pressure off referees. Logistically, the GAA have a lot of work to do in implementing this for all intercounty games and its slightly farcical non-TV games have different parameters to televised games within the same championship. Only a runner for county games and not club obviously.
Solo & go has been great for the flow of the game & respect to referees seems to be improving as a result of the dissent rules.
I'm conflicted on the Kickout. High fielding and aerial duels are one of the most impressive skills in our game and is something we lost for a while. But is the middle of the field becoming too condensed now and leading to too many AFL-style scrums? If the KO went back to the way it was, there's jeopardy in popping it out to the corner back as the GK is no longer in play. It would create more space for the GK to place the ball in space rather than on top of a crowd. You'll still get plenty of aerial contests without the scrums. There seems to be a trend of it being easier to win the opposition kickout than your own, which is where the lack of control is frustrating for teams.
The 50m penalty for obstruction after a mark needs reviewed - the player in possession is getting too much protection IMO and when the player in possession intentionally runs into the closest opposition player, the referee should penalize this more.
I think we've almost got the rules right - credit to the FRC here.
Completely agree with everything.
Me too, I'd just add my pet bugbear on the getting rid of all 2 pt frees and we're laughing!
While there's still flaws with it, I think the two-point free has to stay as the team in the lead could just tactically foul outside the arc if frees were only worth one. The FRC know its not perfect and have rightly reduced the value of scoring a 45 to one. I don't know how we avoid that situation if only scores from play are worth 2!
Quote from: ulstergael on June 06, 2025, 09:14:09 AMQuote from: onefineday on June 06, 2025, 02:31:49 AMQuote from: Minus15 on June 05, 2025, 10:54:54 PMQuote from: ulstergael on June 05, 2025, 07:48:37 PMEven as someone who loved the old version of football, it is only now the new rules are in-place that I appreciate how much better the game is for it.
The key improvements for me have been:
2-point arc: IMO, the art of long range point scoring is the #1 skill spectators want to see when watching a game. The pushback on this rule has surprised me - the reward of the 2-pointer has removed the shackles of 'high percentages shots only' we used to see and has led to more shots & scores, particularly from positions on the pitch you wouldn't have dreamed of seeing under the old rules. I like that they tweaked a 45 only equaling one point, and would still like to see the loophole of a keeper getting a fingertip on a 2point shot being removed.
3 up / 4 back: Mass defenses was a blight on the game as a spectacle. New structure is geared towards aiding the traditional elements of the game. There's no doubt its favoring attacking play - more space for forwards to take a man on / shoot, and defenders have to get back to actual man to man defending.
Stop clock: I like the principle of the ref. stopping the watch - particularly for teams trying to cynically run the clock down at end of games / during black cards. Hooter adds enormous drama to final plays, and it also takes the pressure off referees. Logistically, the GAA have a lot of work to do in implementing this for all intercounty games and its slightly farcical non-TV games have different parameters to televised games within the same championship. Only a runner for county games and not club obviously.
Solo & go has been great for the flow of the game & respect to referees seems to be improving as a result of the dissent rules.
I'm conflicted on the Kickout. High fielding and aerial duels are one of the most impressive skills in our game and is something we lost for a while. But is the middle of the field becoming too condensed now and leading to too many AFL-style scrums? If the KO went back to the way it was, there's jeopardy in popping it out to the corner back as the GK is no longer in play. It would create more space for the GK to place the ball in space rather than on top of a crowd. You'll still get plenty of aerial contests without the scrums. There seems to be a trend of it being easier to win the opposition kickout than your own, which is where the lack of control is frustrating for teams.
The 50m penalty for obstruction after a mark needs reviewed - the player in possession is getting too much protection IMO and when the player in possession intentionally runs into the closest opposition player, the referee should penalize this more.
I think we've almost got the rules right - credit to the FRC here.
Completely agree with everything.
Me too, I'd just add my pet bugbear on the getting rid of all 2 pt frees and we're laughing!
While there's still flaws with it, I think the two-point free has to stay as the team in the lead could just tactically foul outside the arc if frees were only worth one. The FRC know its not perfect and have rightly reduced the value of scoring a 45 to one. I don't know how we avoid that situation if only scores from play are worth 2!
Could they make a tweak to the 2 point free that the fouled player has to score it? Otherwise its worth 1?
Great to see an outbreak of positivity instead of the oul "GAAboard says NO".
The whole reason for the 2 point free was to stop deliberate fouling outside the arc as a way of preventing 2 pointers from play.
Only tweak I'd favour now is do away with the option of going for a 2 pointer for the 3 up breach etc.
A free in front of goal is punishment enough.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 06, 2025, 09:47:13 AMGreat to see an outbreak of positivity instead of the oul "GAAboard says NO".
The whole reason for the 2 point free was to stop deliberate fouling outside the arc as a way of preventing 2 pointers from play.
Only tweak I'd favour now is do away with the option of going for a 2 pointer for the 3 up breach etc.
A free in front of goal is punishment enough.
100% -
On the kickouts, I think it is class that we now have battles for breaking ball and have properly contested kickouts. It really means is that there is another front where both teams must compete.
Even in high quality games When the most efficient teams were playing, it had become: short kickout > secure possession > avoid contact> keep possession until you shoot > shoot > repeat. Unless there was a press on the kickout and very aggressive defending (which occasionally happened in waves) that was the trend in games between well matched teams.
Although I think the rule about not being allowed to tackle a player after a mark isn't good. Also, the rules around winning / taking an advanced mark are unclear or else the refereeing of them is inconsistent.
What is the logic behind a 2-pointer becomes a point only if it touches another player on the way in?
Quote from: SaffronSports on June 06, 2025, 10:30:13 AMWhat is the logic behind a 2-pointer becomes a point only if it touches another player on the way in?
Because then it wasn't scored outside the arc. I suppose it was to stop say a shot dropping short and a forward getting a touch on it to send it over becoming worth 2 point.
Quote from: APM on June 06, 2025, 10:15:37 AMQuote from: Rossfan on June 06, 2025, 09:47:13 AMGreat to see an outbreak of positivity instead of the oul "GAAboard says NO".
The whole reason for the 2 point free was to stop deliberate fouling outside the arc as a way of preventing 2 pointers from play.
Only tweak I'd favour now is do away with the option of going for a 2 pointer for the 3 up breach etc.
A free in front of goal is punishment enough.
100% -
On the kickouts, I think it is class that we now have battles for breaking ball and have properly contested kickouts. It really means is that there is another front where both teams must compete.
Even in high quality games When the most efficient teams were playing, it had become: short kickout > secure possession > avoid contact> keep possession until you shoot > shoot > repeat. Unless there was a press on the kickout and very aggressive defending (which occasionally happened in waves) that was the trend in games between well matched teams.
Although I think the rule about not being allowed to tackle a player after a mark isn't good. Also, the rules around winning / taking an advanced mark are unclear or else the refereeing of them is inconsistent.
When you say teams are competing, you mean a dozen men battering in to each other hoping the ball bounces in their favour, much like hoping a rugby ball bounces for you? There is just far too much luck in this for me.
Love football ver 2025 BTW, except the kickout rule
The bit in bold, maybe pre 2025, but as the ball cannot go back to the keeper, teams will press the kickout so there is no real easy out if the small arc replaced the big arc re kickouts
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 06, 2025, 10:48:28 AMQuote from: SaffronSports on June 06, 2025, 10:30:13 AMWhat is the logic behind a 2-pointer becomes a point only if it touches another player on the way in?
Because then it wasn't scored outside the arc. I suppose it was to stop say a shot dropping short and a forward getting a touch on it to send it over becoming worth 2 point.
Absolutely no issue with a forward touching it and it becoming a point but if it's a defensive touch then we're basically saying you have to score from 40m out and it has to go a metre over the bar as well for it to be 2 points.
ive come to terms with most of the rules, still think the 2pt and the sickout rules arent really needed. the 2pt is actually so frustrating watching teams hit aimless shots from distance. the solo and go, 3 up and keeper not being able to take the ball in his own half are the ones that have really sped it up.
A fairly big downside of the kickout is the amount of injuries that there are due to the huge physical contests where there are 6-8 men colliding with each othe for the ball with the result that players can land on the ground in a way that causes them serious injury.
It's almost a guaranteed biproduct of the sheer amount of contests for kickouts. I'd hope the FRC is keeping an eye on this.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on June 06, 2025, 08:13:18 PMA fairly big downside of the kickout is the amount of injuries that there are due to the huge physical contests where there are 6-8 men colliding with each othe for the ball with the result that players can land on the ground in a way that causes them serious injury.
It's almost a guaranteed biproduct of the sheer amount of contests for kickouts. I'd hope the FRC is keeping an eye on this.
Is this a theory or have you stats of increased injuries from kick-outs to support that?. Sounds like nonsense.. competitive fielding a great part of our game for decades and thankfully back again..
Quote from: Smokin Joe on June 06, 2025, 08:13:18 PMA fairly big downside of the kickout is the amount of injuries that there are due to the huge physical contests where there are 6-8 men colliding with each othe for the ball with the result that players can land on the ground in a way that causes them serious injury.
It's almost a guaranteed biproduct of the sheer amount of contests for kickouts. I'd hope the FRC is keeping an eye on this.
Any examples of it? Does make sense tbf but can't really think of any. O'Connor for Kerry landed on the shoulder awkwardly in a league game it I remember rightly
Injuries?
Galway in last year's final, you know after having effectively no contested kickouts for the best part of a decade.
My recollection might be hazy. But Walsh and Comer genuinely weren't fit to play. Sean Kelly came on but they might as well have sent of a traffic cone. John Daly wasn't fit to come off the bench. Rob Finnerty left the play after 10 minutes.
Blaming kick outs for injuries just seems to me a bit like religious fanaticism; whereby the findings are already decided, regardless of evidence.
Now we're in desperation mode to tear down the new rules. When team managers and physios claim new kick-out rule is causing more injuries it will be worth looking at.. I ain't heard a word from them yet. Absolute nonsense.
Quote from: JoG2 on June 06, 2025, 10:57:57 AMQuote from: APM on June 06, 2025, 10:15:37 AMQuote from: Rossfan on June 06, 2025, 09:47:13 AMGreat to see an outbreak of positivity instead of the oul "GAAboard says NO".
The whole reason for the 2 point free was to stop deliberate fouling outside the arc as a way of preventing 2 pointers from play.
Only tweak I'd favour now is do away with the option of going for a 2 pointer for the 3 up breach etc.
A free in front of goal is punishment enough.
100% -
On the kickouts, I think it is class that we now have battles for breaking ball and have properly contested kickouts. It really means is that there is another front where both teams must compete.
Even in high quality games When the most efficient teams were playing, it had become: short kickout > secure possession > avoid contact> keep possession until you shoot > shoot > repeat. Unless there was a press on the kickout and very aggressive defending (which occasionally happened in waves) that was the trend in games between well matched teams.
Although I think the rule about not being allowed to tackle a player after a mark isn't good. Also, the rules around winning / taking an advanced mark are unclear or else the refereeing of them is inconsistent.
When you say teams are competing, you mean a dozen men battering in to each other hoping the ball bounces in their favour, much like hoping a rugby ball bounces for you? There is just far too much luck in this for me.
Love football ver 2025 BTW, except the kickout rule
The bit in bold, maybe pre 2025, but as the ball cannot go back to the keeper, teams will press the kickout so there is no real easy out if the small arc replaced the big arc re kickouts
I'm surprised at these comments and others like them. Was this not the norm until short kickouts came into vogue. For me those midfield battles for clean catches and breaking ball were a massive part of what football was all about. If anything the rules around marks mean there is less battering than in the past. And I never recall any complaints in the past about the role of luck etc or injuries / too much contact in midfield. Except perhaps the unfairness of a midfielder being penalised for over carrying after a great catch due to being swarmed.
It's nonsense. The dying embers of resisting change...
As we get into the business end of the season you will see more lads 'buying' advantages ie running into lads screaming for it to be moved up after they catch a ball.
That rule needs to be looked at, as when this does happen people will lump this one rule in with all the good one.
Also, I think you should be allowed drop the ball after a foul as opposed to hand it back, because lads can jump on the player who fouled the ball and then it pressures the ref.
The 50m dissent rule was a big worry but ya know what...lads have just STFU now and you don't see mouthing.
It's one year in and it was never going to be perfect but Christ the games are great to watch and the players seem to be enjoying it more.
Quote from: Truthsayer on June 06, 2025, 09:26:43 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on June 06, 2025, 08:13:18 PMA fairly big downside of the kickout is the amount of injuries that there are due to the huge physical contests where there are 6-8 men colliding with each othe for the ball with the result that players can land on the ground in a way that causes them serious injury.
It's almost a guaranteed biproduct of the sheer amount of contests for kickouts. I'd hope the FRC is keeping an eye on this.
Is this a theory or have you stats of increased injuries from kick-outs to support that?. Sounds like nonsense.. competitive fielding a great part of our game for decades and thankfully back again..
Kerry's 2 starting midfielders have been out injured due to collisions under the congested kickout. This never happened the last few years with a lot of the kickouts being uncontested. The "competitive fielding" that was part of our game for decades that people wanted to get back to was a one on one contest, or perhaps two on two at tops. I don't think the Cork box kickout (or similar versions of) was what anyone, most of all the FRC, wanted to achieve with their kickout rule. There tends to be a scrum for possession on quite a lot of the kickouts, very little clean catches. I firmly believe it is the clean catching that people want to see when they hark back to "a part of our great game for decades".
Quote from: APM on June 07, 2025, 06:47:41 AMQuote from: JoG2 on June 06, 2025, 10:57:57 AMQuote from: APM on June 06, 2025, 10:15:37 AMQuote from: Rossfan on June 06, 2025, 09:47:13 AMGreat to see an outbreak of positivity instead of the oul "GAAboard says NO".
The whole reason for the 2 point free was to stop deliberate fouling outside the arc as a way of preventing 2 pointers from play.
Only tweak I'd favour now is do away with the option of going for a 2 pointer for the 3 up breach etc.
A free in front of goal is punishment enough.
100% -
On the kickouts, I think it is class that we now have battles for breaking ball and have properly contested kickouts. It really means is that there is another front where both teams must compete.
Even in high quality games When the most efficient teams were playing, it had become: short kickout > secure possession > avoid contact> keep possession until you shoot > shoot > repeat. Unless there was a press on the kickout and very aggressive defending (which occasionally happened in waves) that was the trend in games between well matched teams.
Although I think the rule about not being allowed to tackle a player after a mark isn't good. Also, the rules around winning / taking an advanced mark are unclear or else the refereeing of them is inconsistent.
When you say teams are competing, you mean a dozen men battering in to each other hoping the ball bounces in their favour, much like hoping a rugby ball bounces for you? There is just far too much luck in this for me.
Love football ver 2025 BTW, except the kickout rule
The bit in bold, maybe pre 2025, but as the ball cannot go back to the keeper, teams will press the kickout so there is no real easy out if the small arc replaced the big arc re kickouts
I'm surprised at these comments and others like them. Was this not the norm until short kickouts came into vogue. For me those midfield battles for clean catches and breaking ball were a massive part of what football was all about. If anything the rules around marks mean there is less battering than in the past. And I never recall any complaints in the past about the role of luck etc or injuries / too much contact in midfield. Except perhaps the unfairness of a midfielder being penalised for over carrying after a great catch due to being swarmed.
We've never a time when players have to be outside the large arc to receive a kickout before ie a lorry load of players from each team condensed into 1 part of the pitch, because that's what we have now.
If we revert back to the smaller arc, players are spread out more. They'll still be long kickouts as teams won't want to risk being turned over around the 20m line. You push up on all the defenders, how often is a keeper going to risk the short kick out? It'll only happen if the opposition allows it, pretty much what we are seeing now with the new rules.
How does this kind of thinking around the kick outs surprise you? That's what surprises me
The kick-out conspiracy theory being expounded (since yesterday!) is comical. Need to put the pipe down Smokin Joe!
The Mark from a kick out, the player has to deliberately impede/stop/tackle a player who makes that mark before moving it 50meters.
If the ref is getting sucked into a player deliberately trying to con the ref and looking up run into or make it look like he's being held then the ref is wrong, and needs to be told that..
There are accidental infringements/collisions when a player makes a Mark, but the ref should know if it's on purpose. And allow the player to continue or he makes him take the mark.
In all my games this year, I've yet to see it being attempted too many times, if it has I've applied it (50 m) for the tackle before 4 steps or a deliberate jostling when I've blown the whistle.
:D try harder... best championship in years. Great games... but rumblings bout the kickout rule from the Antrim camp :D
Sup it up new rules here to stay... was at the U20 All Ireland final an exhibition of fielding from the Louth midfielder.. sadly missed for years with the poxy 10 yard kickouts being conceded...
I think we get it, you like the new rules. Unless we hear differently, we'll assume you still like the new rules. You don't need to spam the board to tell us how much you like the new rules all the time.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 07, 2025, 11:48:49 PMI think we get it, you like the new rules. Unless we hear differently, we'll assume you still like the new rules. You don't need to spam the board to tell us how much you like the new rules all the time.
You gotta stay on top of it... there are those would like to destroy the game again. Thanks anyway 🙌
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2025, 04:18:08 PMThe Mark from a kick out, the player has to deliberately impede/stop/tackle a player who makes that mark before moving it 50meters.
If the ref is getting sucked into a player deliberately trying to con the ref and looking up run into or make it look like he's being held then the ref is wrong, and needs to be told that..
There are accidental infringements/collisions when a player makes a Mark, but the ref should know if it's on purpose. And allow the player to continue or he makes him take the mark.
In all my games this year, I've yet to see it being attempted too many times, if it has I've applied it (50 m) for the tackle before 4 steps or a deliberate jostling when I've blown the whistle.
Who's going to challenge him on it? Sure isn't that another 50m infringement?
The more the season wears on the less I believe the FRC really understood what they were at. The simple solution for rewarding the mark is that once the ball is caught cleanly the referee signals that he is playing advantage. The fielding player then has the opportunity to play on, either passing the ball or running forward with it until the ball has moved 40m.
The fielder would have the opportunity to kick the ball long into his forwards, safe in the knowledge that if they don't win it he gets a free out at MF where he caught it. Or he could solo forward with the ball taking men on knowing that if he loses it he still has the free from the mark. If they pass it back or sideways obviously the advantage ends quicker as they aren't using possession to attack.
This suits both teams. Defending teams can still tackle and play aggressively, knowing that the punishment isn't extremely severe and attacking teams are rewarded for attacking and taking risks in possession.
Quote from: trileacman on June 09, 2025, 11:54:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2025, 04:18:08 PMThe Mark from a kick out, the player has to deliberately impede/stop/tackle a player who makes that mark before moving it 50meters.
If the ref is getting sucked into a player deliberately trying to con the ref and looking up run into or make it look like he's being held then the ref is wrong, and needs to be told that..
There are accidental infringements/collisions when a player makes a Mark, but the ref should know if it's on purpose. And allow the player to continue or he makes him take the mark.
In all my games this year, I've yet to see it being attempted too many times, if it has I've applied it (50 m) for the tackle before 4 steps or a deliberate jostling when I've blown the whistle.
Who's going to challenge him on it? Sure isn't that another 50m infringement?
You can only do one 50m ..
It's got to be deliberate, on purpose, there are impossible collisions, so many refs will see it differently
Quote from: trileacman on June 10, 2025, 12:05:52 AMThe more the season wears on the less I believe the FRC really understood what they were at. The simple solution for rewarding the mark is that once the ball is caught cleanly the referee signals that he is playing advantage. The fielding player then has the opportunity to play on, either passing the ball or running forward with it until the ball has moved 40m.
The fielder would have the opportunity to kick the ball long into his forwards, safe in the knowledge that if they don't win it he gets a free out at MF where he caught it. Or he could solo forward with the ball taking men on knowing that if he loses it he still has the free from the mark. If they pass it back or sideways obviously the advantage ends quicker as they aren't using possession to attack.
This suits both teams. Defending teams can still tackle and play aggressively, knowing that the punishment isn't extremely severe and attacking teams are rewarded for attacking and taking risks in possession.
Have the rules changed again?? Surely not
Quote from: JoG2 on June 10, 2025, 10:12:34 AMQuote from: trileacman on June 10, 2025, 12:05:52 AMThe more the season wears on the less I believe the FRC really understood what they were at. The simple solution for rewarding the mark is that once the ball is caught cleanly the referee signals that he is playing advantage. The fielding player then has the opportunity to play on, either passing the ball or running forward with it until the ball has moved 40m.
The fielder would have the opportunity to kick the ball long into his forwards, safe in the knowledge that if they don't win it he gets a free out at MF where he caught it. Or he could solo forward with the ball taking men on knowing that if he loses it he still has the free from the mark. If they pass it back or sideways obviously the advantage ends quicker as they aren't using possession to attack.
This suits both teams. Defending teams can still tackle and play aggressively, knowing that the punishment isn't extremely severe and attacking teams are rewarded for attacking and taking risks in possession.
Have the rules changed again?? Surely not
Don't worry about it, rule changes can never be wrong, or at least that's the position of the village idiots on here.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2025, 07:19:37 AMQuote from: trileacman on June 09, 2025, 11:54:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2025, 04:18:08 PMThe Mark from a kick out, the player has to deliberately impede/stop/tackle a player who makes that mark before moving it 50meters.
If the ref is getting sucked into a player deliberately trying to con the ref and looking up run into or make it look like he's being held then the ref is wrong, and needs to be told that..
There are accidental infringements/collisions when a player makes a Mark, but the ref should know if it's on purpose. And allow the player to continue or he makes him take the mark.
In all my games this year, I've yet to see it being attempted too many times, if it has I've applied it (50 m) for the tackle before 4 steps or a deliberate jostling when I've blown the whistle.
Who's going to challenge him on it? Sure isn't that another 50m infringement?
You can only do one 50m ..
It's got to be deliberate, on purpose, there are impossible collisions, so many refs will see it differently
No genuinely you said that the referee needs to be told he is wrong. How does anyone do that given that the new rules make dissent one of GAAs capital crimes?
Can't captains talk to Refs?
There's a lad from one of our neighbouring clubs. At home matches he stands on the far terrace, away from everyone else in attendance. He's then prone to spending 60 minutes abusing the referee in full voice.
It's a bizarre sight.
But it very much looks like the Trillick club have one of the ilk too.
Quote from: trileacman on June 10, 2025, 10:18:10 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2025, 07:19:37 AMQuote from: trileacman on June 09, 2025, 11:54:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2025, 04:18:08 PMThe Mark from a kick out, the player has to deliberately impede/stop/tackle a player who makes that mark before moving it 50meters.
If the ref is getting sucked into a player deliberately trying to con the ref and looking up run into or make it look like he's being held then the ref is wrong, and needs to be told that..
There are accidental infringements/collisions when a player makes a Mark, but the ref should know if it's on purpose. And allow the player to continue or he makes him take the mark.
In all my games this year, I've yet to see it being attempted too many times, if it has I've applied it (50 m) for the tackle before 4 steps or a deliberate jostling when I've blown the whistle.
Who's going to challenge him on it? Sure isn't that another 50m infringement?
You can only do one 50m ..
It's got to be deliberate, on purpose, there are impossible collisions, so many refs will see it differently
No genuinely you said that the referee needs to be told he is wrong. How does anyone do that given that the new rules make dissent one of GAAs capital crimes?
By his assessor or mentor who's at the game, if that isn't available then a chat afterwards, and I main a chat, not a rant or a rave, nice and calm to get the explanation, I find what is good is if a manager comes and chats before the game and brings up a topic and asks how do you manage that scenario?
Ranting and raving though is going to result in moving the ball
Quote from: Rossfan on June 10, 2025, 10:26:50 AMCan't captains talk to Refs?
It simply doesn't work in GAA. It's fine in Rugby where the vast majority of the players are along the scrimmage line and so a captain is usually only a few metres away from any infringement. Plus restarts in Rugby take far longer to organise such a scrums or penalties so captains have time to approach refs and make their case or enquire as to foul.
The idea that after a foul the fullback would run out to MF or half-forward line and ask the captain to come in and ask the referee what the foul was for is ridiculous. It's a rule that looks o so clever on paper, in reality it's just bollocks.
Quote from: trileacman on June 10, 2025, 10:16:04 AMQuote from: JoG2 on June 10, 2025, 10:12:34 AMQuote from: trileacman on June 10, 2025, 12:05:52 AMThe more the season wears on the less I believe the FRC really understood what they were at. The simple solution for rewarding the mark is that once the ball is caught cleanly the referee signals that he is playing advantage. The fielding player then has the opportunity to play on, either passing the ball or running forward with it until the ball has moved 40m.
The fielder would have the opportunity to kick the ball long into his forwards, safe in the knowledge that if they don't win it he gets a free out at MF where he caught it. Or he could solo forward with the ball taking men on knowing that if he loses it he still has the free from the mark. If they pass it back or sideways obviously the advantage ends quicker as they aren't using possession to attack.
This suits both teams. Defending teams can still tackle and play aggressively, knowing that the punishment isn't extremely severe and attacking teams are rewarded for attacking and taking risks in possession.
Have the rules changed again?? Surely not
Don't worry about it, rule changes can never be wrong, or at least that's the position of the village idiots on here.
But you can't catch a ball clean from a kickout, pump it in, nothing comes of it and get another kick at it
Quote from: trileacman on June 10, 2025, 02:29:54 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 10, 2025, 10:26:50 AMCan't captains talk to Refs?
It simply doesn't work in GAA. It's fine in Rugby where the vast majority of the players are along the scrimmage line and so a captain is usually only a few metres away from any infringement. Plus restarts in Rugby take far longer to organise such a scrums or penalties so captains have time to approach refs and make their case or enquire as to foul.
The idea that after a foul the fullback would run out to MF or half-forward line and ask the captain to come in and ask the referee what the foul was for is ridiculous. It's a rule that looks o so clever on paper, in reality it's just bollocks.
Surely any decent ref will let any player ask the question, as long as it's done respectfully obviously, would need to be some p***k of a ref to enforce that rule to the letter. Haven't seen it myself thankfully, most refs don't care who asks unless they're getting roared at, in which case move the ball as far as you like.
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 10, 2025, 03:42:56 PMQuote from: trileacman on June 10, 2025, 02:29:54 PMQuote from: Rossfan on June 10, 2025, 10:26:50 AMCan't captains talk to Refs?
It simply doesn't work in GAA. It's fine in Rugby where the vast majority of the players are along the scrimmage line and so a captain is usually only a few metres away from any infringement. Plus restarts in Rugby take far longer to organise such a scrums or penalties so captains have time to approach refs and make their case or enquire as to foul.
The idea that after a foul the fullback would run out to MF or half-forward line and ask the captain to come in and ask the referee what the foul was for is ridiculous. It's a rule that looks o so clever on paper, in reality it's just bollocks.
Surely any decent ref will let any player ask the question, as long as it's done respectfully obviously, would need to be some p***k of a ref to enforce that rule to the letter. Haven't seen it myself thankfully, most refs don't care who asks unless they're getting roared at, in which case move the ball as far as you like.
There's enough rules in the book that are routinely ignored by all of us without adding more of them. It's 2025 FFS.
Quote• Teams will nominate a designated player (i.e. captain or his deputy) for the purpose of seeking clarification of a decision made by the referee.
That's the official wording of the rule. So it either has to be enforced or ignored, neither is a proper solution.
Quote from: trileacman on June 10, 2025, 12:05:52 AMThe more the season wears on the less I believe the FRC really understood what they were at. The simple solution for rewarding the mark is that once the ball is caught cleanly the referee signals that he is playing advantage. The fielding player then has the opportunity to play on, either passing the ball or running forward with it until the ball has moved 40m.
The fielder would have the opportunity to kick the ball long into his forwards, safe in the knowledge that if they don't win it he gets a free out at MF where he caught it. Or he could solo forward with the ball taking men on knowing that if he loses it he still has the free from the mark. If they pass it back or sideways obviously the advantage ends quicker as they aren't using possession to attack.
This suits both teams. Defending teams can still tackle and play aggressively, knowing that the punishment isn't extremely severe and attacking teams are rewarded for attacking and taking risks in possession.
If the ball inside is caught by a forward inside the 14 then has a free shot at goal, safe in the knowledge that he has a forward mark, which he can take safe in the knowledge that he has a free at MF.
It'll be like the movie Inception with Dublin Joe the one with a spinning top😀