gaaboard.com

No need to rehash the severe criticism of the refs in both of the Mayo v Kerry games.  I'm starting to wonder if any one  ref could have done a good job under the circumstances, with pulling and dragging, nasty off the ball stuff etc.

I know I have brought this subject up before but surely with a ref in each half of the field there would have a better chance of controlling the game, making the correct calls  and stopping a lot of the nasty stuff that goes unpunished.  I know there is concerns about consistency etc and linesmen and umpires are supposed to keep an eye out but seldom do.

I thought I would pit a poll on top just to see if anyone feels the same about this...

Being closer to the play won't always guarantee a correct call. Plus one more official will hardly stop a 20 man brawl.

I think a video referee could be used for penalty claims, red/black cards etc.

The standard of refereeing is brutal but it's a very tough job. I think technology needs to be used more.

Surely the umpires would be better positioned to call a penalty than the ref who might be 30 yards out the field.....that would be a start

Give the umpires more power......that would cut out a lot of the niggly shit

Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2014, 03:05:08 AM
Surely the umpires would be better positioned to call a penalty than the ref who might be 30 yards out the field.....that would be a start

Give the umpires more power......that would cut out a lot of the niggly shit

Agree with the idea behind giving umpires more power. How are umpires chosen for intercounty games? Are they appointed as per referees and linesmen? Are they qualified referees? If they are to be given more power, we need to ensure they are adequately provisioned, else it will go from bad to worse.

Back to the OP, being close to the play won't sort out the many inconsistencies IMO. We need better trained referees, but more importantly we need better rules. If we are going to allow 'interpretation', then we need clear guidance from the GAA regularly as to what the correct call would have been.
AFAIK, the AFL regularly communicate to umpires (and players I think, not sure) how they would like certain scenarios policed. At least when a bad call is made, we know it is a bad call and why.

Milwaukee HC has been using twin referees in their internal league for years and it's made off-the-ball incidents a thing of the past. It eliminates a lot of blind spots on the field, there's always a ref looking at you. The second ref is closer to the action than the umpires.

Less likely to stop a 20-man brawl? Maybe, but a 20-man brawl is less likely to break out in the first place if they know they're within view of at least one ref on the field.

Given the size of a regulation GAA field and the speed of a sliothar, I'm surprised twin refs haven't been adopted before now.

Quote from: Never beat the deeler on September 03, 2014, 03:44:23 AM

Quote from: whitey on September 03, 2014, 03:05:08 AM
Surely the umpires would be better positioned to call a penalty than the ref who might be 30 yards out the field.....that would be a start

Give the umpires more power......that would cut out a lot of the niggly shit

Agree with the idea behind giving umpires more power. How are umpires chosen for intercounty games? Are they appointed as per referees and linesmen? Are they qualified referees? If they are to be given more power, we need to ensure they are adequately provisioned, else it will go from bad to worse.

Back to the OP, being close to the play won't sort out the many inconsistencies IMO. We need better trained referees, but more importantly we need better rules. If we are going to allow 'interpretation', then we need clear guidance from the GAA regularly as to what the correct call would have been.
AFAIK, the AFL regularly communicate to umpires (and players I think, not sure) how they would like certain scenarios policed. At least when a bad call is made, we know it is a bad call and why.

I think that referees need to be given feedback from the powers that be after every game - not as criticism or threats that they won't ref again but like you say, on how calls should have been adjudicated.

I;d go a step further and say three.
Get rid of linesmen who actually have less to do than the umpires.......

So instead youd have three full power refs - one running up and down the middle from 50 to 50, the other two would run from the endline to the midfield. All three would have whistles and could blow for a foul. Quick conferring would see any "double frees" decided upon  and clarified. Fourth official could take note of who is on black / yellow / tick etc and also blow a whistle or sound a horn to contact the referee.

Before the "what about junior B games"  comments - Its the ideal scenario to introduce new referees. Pair an established ref with a "junior" referee. It would mean a slight buit more money for "affiliation" but you could budget €100 per game with the senior ref getting€50 and two junior refs getting €25 each - three games a week during the summer months at all levels would be a nice amount of money for a college student for example.
Knockone effect - better quality referees as well as refereeing as more people would be willing to do it as more wrong calls are ruled out so less abuse handed out and if there is - theres safety in numbers - no isolated ref at a league game....

Quote from: brianboru00 on September 03, 2014, 11:11:53 AM
I;d go a step further and say three.
Get rid of linesmen who actually have less to do than the umpires.......

So instead youd have three full power refs - one running up and down the middle from 50 to 50, the other two would run from the endline to the midfield. All three would have whistles and could blow for a foul. Quick conferring would see any "double frees" decided upon  and clarified. Fourth official could take note of who is on black / yellow / tick etc and also blow a whistle or sound a horn to contact the referee.

Before the "what about junior B games"  comments - Its the ideal scenario to introduce new referees. Pair an established ref with a "junior" referee. It would mean a slight buit more money for "affiliation" but you could budget €100 per game with the senior ref getting€50 and two junior refs getting €25 each - three games a week during the summer months at all levels would be a nice amount of money for a college student for example.
Knockone effect - better quality referees as well as refereeing as more people would be willing to do it as more wrong calls are ruled out so less abuse handed out and if there is - theres safety in numbers - no isolated ref at a league game....

I agree with the safety in numbers comment.  It is very sad to see referees who are doing the best they can being escorted off the field by the gardai. 

what power do umpires usually have? most just stand looking rotund. Give them more power and less tuck shop vouchers. Most importantly, abolish the 2/3/4/5/6/7 man tackle. Only one man can tackle one player. I know the rule states they are tackling the ball, but, pun intended, thats balls. The tackle is the key issue and with this, a ref has a huge baring on how a game pans out.
Sort out the tackle and the game will be much easier reffed

I don't know what it's like in your counties lads but getting one referee to turn up for a match is a bonus! Now you are looking 3 ffs!!

The only time there are neutral linesmen umpires is Championship. Impossible to get then out for league div 1 games never mind junior b. In saying that I recently did a championship match I made full use of the linesmen in 3 incidents that went on while I was watching play elsewhere. 3 red cards were issued and no real complaints to be fair. It can be done but generally only in championship games. No need to have 2 referees, it's funny how supporters who are general further away than the referee can 'see' fouls more clearly than the referee. And They never see their own club/counties frees lol.

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 11:32:35 AM
what power do umpires usually have? most just stand looking rotund. Give them more power and less tuck shop vouchers. Most importantly, abolish the 2/3/4/5/6/7 man tackle. Only one man can tackle one player. I know the rule states they are tackling the ball, but, pun intended, thats balls. The tackle is the key issue and with this, a ref has a huge baring on how a game pans out.
Sort out the tackle and the game will be much easier reffed

He can call you in and tell you if their was an incident and you can book them, if there is a penalty decision (was he in the box or not) he can clarify that. Generally I would ensure he tells players to wind their neck in. if they continue and I'm called in they will get booked

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 03, 2014, 11:35:03 AM
I don't know what it's like in your counties lads but getting one referee to turn up for a match is a bonus! Now you are looking 3 ffs!!

The only time there are neutral linesmen umpires is Championship. Impossible to get then out for league div 1 games never mind junior b. In saying that I recently did a championship match I made full use of the linesmen in 3 incidents that went on while I was watching play elsewhere. 3 red cards were issued and no real complaints to be fair. It can be done but generally only in championship games. No need to have 2 referees, it's funny how supporters who are general further away than the referee can 'see' fouls more clearly than the referee. And They never see their own club/counties frees lol.

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 11:32:35 AM
what power do umpires usually have? most just stand looking rotund. Give them more power and less tuck shop vouchers. Most importantly, abolish the 2/3/4/5/6/7 man tackle. Only one man can tackle one player. I know the rule states they are tackling the ball, but, pun intended, thats balls. The tackle is the key issue and with this, a ref has a huge baring on how a game pans out.
Sort out the tackle and the game will be much easier reffed

He can call you in and tell you if their was an incident and you can book them, if there is a penalty decision (was he in the box or not) he can clarify that. Generally I would ensure he tells players to wind their neck in. if they continue and I'm called in they will get booked

in my experience, the vast majority of umpires dont wanna know. A forward can literally be getting fcuked over, is asking the umpires to sort it out and they basically just look down at their feet. And to boot, they probably have thee worst angle in the ground to see points / wides

Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 11:38:12 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 03, 2014, 11:35:03 AM
I don't know what it's like in your counties lads but getting one referee to turn up for a match is a bonus! Now you are looking 3 ffs!!

The only time there are neutral linesmen umpires is Championship. Impossible to get then out for league div 1 games never mind junior b. In saying that I recently did a championship match I made full use of the linesmen in 3 incidents that went on while I was watching play elsewhere. 3 red cards were issued and no real complaints to be fair. It can be done but generally only in championship games. No need to have 2 referees, it's funny how supporters who are general further away than the referee can 'see' fouls more clearly than the referee. And They never see their own club/counties frees lol.

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 11:32:35 AM
what power do umpires usually have? most just stand looking rotund. Give them more power and less tuck shop vouchers. Most importantly, abolish the 2/3/4/5/6/7 man tackle. Only one man can tackle one player. I know the rule states they are tackling the ball, but, pun intended, thats balls. The tackle is the key issue and with this, a ref has a huge baring on how a game pans out.
Sort out the tackle and the game will be much easier reffed

He can call you in and tell you if their was an incident and you can book them, if there is a penalty decision (was he in the box or not) he can clarify that. Generally I would ensure he tells players to wind their neck in. if they continue and I'm called in they will get booked

in my experience, the vast majority of umpires dont wanna know. A forward can literally be getting fcuked over, is asking the umpires to sort it out and they basically just look down at their feet. And to boot, they probably have thee worst angle in the ground to see points / wides

You aren't wrong in a lot of cases, It's important to have umpires who want to do it and are past/present players. 3 of my umpires on Sunday are referees. and in the previous championship game I over ruled a umpire on a wide he game as my Linesman instructed me from where he was angle wise the ball went over the bar. Same as the last game, there wasn't much room behind the net I asked the lines men to get into a position (I was also) to ensure the correct decision is given. We can't get it all right but we try

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

For this the umpire can't actually do anything other than inform me and I'll have a word with the player and keep an eye on him,
it's a pet hate of mine, but catching it and brining the free down to the 21 yard line is great

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

Umpires have difficulty calling a point or a wide. It's laughable sometimes.

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

He should have and if I was umpire it would have been brought to the referee's attention, again it's down to the referee how he instructs his team. And if this is picked up by his assessor/advisor then he'll get marked down for it.

It's very frustrating for fans/players and managers. Consistency is the key even if he was consistency bad you'll know then how to play the match or what to expect as a supporter lol

Quote from: BennyCake on September 03, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
Umpires have difficulty calling a point or a wide. It's laughable sometimes.

I've umpired quite a few times and if the ball is over the height of the posts and falling at an angle that you can't get behind the post to view from, it ain't that easy.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 03, 2014, 12:29:40 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on September 03, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
Umpires have difficulty calling a point or a wide. It's laughable sometimes.

I've umpired quite a few times and if the ball is over the height of the posts and falling at an angle that you can't get behind the post to view from, it ain't that easy.

It's not just those ones. And it's the same with 50's as well.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 03, 2014, 12:16:08 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

He should have and if I was umpire it would have been brought to the referee's attention, again it's down to the referee how he instructs his team. And if this is picked up by his assessor/advisor then he'll get marked down for it.

It's very frustrating for fans/players and managers. Consistency is the key even if he was consistency bad you'll know then how to play the match or what to expect as a supporter lol

consistency is certainly the key. But as a ref yoursel MR2, surely its the tackle thats the main issue? a swarm of defenders slapping at a man is a foul everytime? theres no way they are all tackling the ball. More often than not you see the attacking player blown for over carrying...bit of a gear grinder

I don't think using two refs is a practical idea. I feel it would cause more problems that it would solve. Two different personalities could lead to two different interpretations of some rules. A red card at one end might only be a yellow or a ticking off at the other.
Some of the rules are in need of major reform as things stand so there's no point in adding to the confusion that is already there.
What happens in the grey areas around centre field.?
Say a kickout is taken; seven or eight players are jostling under the  dropping ball;  at least a half dozen fouls are committed in the process as a maul develops and no referee can see what happening on the blind side, as it were.
So it's inevitable that ref A may award a free to one side while ref B awards a free to the other.
Ah, the more I think of it, the more I think two referees would only add to problems, no take from there.
Definitely the umpires and linesmen should have more say in what is going on as no referee in charge of thirty superbly fit and highly motivate athletes can be expected to see everything.

But what about imposing a maximum age limit for  refs in championship matches and having them undertake mandatory fitness tests at regular intervals?

I'd say Cormac Reilly is at least ten years older than Marc Ó Sé, the oldest playgoer on view last Saturday.
I would also say the Coldrick, McQuillan and Maurice Deegan are well over the 40 mark also. None of those four, all top-tier refs, can be half as fit as the players they are trying to control and to cap it all, they probably cover more ground in the course of a game than any player.
They can't afford to take a breather now and again like players can and they must be on high alert for the entire game.
No wonder refs get dogs' abuse for all quarters!

If we had two refs, the only thing that would change would be the abuse. Instead of 'You miserable rotten robbing bastard' it would be 'You miserable rotten robbing bastards'.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 03, 2014, 02:09:07 PM

I don't think using two refs is a practical idea. I feel it would cause more problems that it would solve. Two different personalities could lead to two different interpretations of some rules. A red card at one end might only be a yellow or a ticking off at the other.
Some of the rules are in need of major reform as things stand so there's no point in adding to the confusion that is already there.
What happens in the grey areas around centre field.?
Say a kickout is taken; seven or eight players are jostling under the  dropping ball;  at least a half dozen fouls are committed in the process as a maul develops and no referee can see what happening on the blind side, as it were.
So it's inevitable that ref A may award a free to one side while ref B awards a free to the other.
Ah, the more I think of it, the more I think two referees would only add to problems, no take from there.
Definitely the umpires and linesmen should have more say in what is going on as no referee in charge of thirty superbly fit and highly motivate athletes can be expected to see everything.

But what about imposing a maximum age limit for  refs in championship matches and having them undertake mandatory fitness tests at regular intervals?

I'd say Cormac Reilly is at least ten years older than Marc Ó Sé, the oldest playgoer on view last Saturday.
I would also say the Coldrick, McQuillan and Maurice Deegan are well over the 40 mark also. None of those four, all top-tier refs, can be half as fit as the players they are trying to control and to cap it all, they probably cover more ground in the course of a game than any player.
They can't afford to take a breather now and again like players can and they must be on high alert for the entire game.
No wonder refs get dogs' abuse for all quarters!

It seems to me that rugby has far less controversy around referees. What is it that they do better ?

I wouldn't necessarily say that seafoid. Maybe less noise about it, but there's definitely arguments about refereeing performances. Especially since a lot of rugby refereeing is 'interpretation'.

What difference would two refs make ?
At the minute there is effectively three with the microphone system for the linesman.

Two referrees on the field of play ( one in each half i presume) are still subject to individual interputation of the rules, and making decisons in a split second.

At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 02:59:35 PM
At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

on that last point Dave. Show me footage of 2/3/4 men all tackling the ball at the same time. Dont even think it is physically possible without the player in possession getting slapped, which is a foul

Two refs wouldn't improve matters. At intercounty games t present you have a ref, two linesmen and 4 umpire - there are plenty of officials and we still get loads of balls up. The emphasis has to change. For all the errors Reilly made if you had the likes of the Duffy's doing the Mayo/Kerry game it wouldn't have been one tenth as enjoyable as it was. My feeling on this, and I'll admit it's not perfect, is that the emphasis should be on using the ball. No soft frees. Give the benefit of the doubt to the tackler. If the person in possession is not good enough to use it and gets caught up with a hard tackle then don't be looking to the ref to bail you out. Obviously I'm not advocating an Aussie Rules type tackle but like hurling, gaelic football is a better game when it is let flow and when physical contact is allowed.

The people instructing and assessing the refs are the ones I blame the most.

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 02:59:35 PM
At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

on that last point Dave. Show me footage of 2/3/4 men all tackling the ball at the same time. Dont even think it is physically possible without the player in possession getting slapped, which is a foul

Within reason, so again it's down to the referee, some games can be slapping at the ball and that's fine, but the minute you call that first foul for slapping at the ball, then every time it happens in that match you have to call it, consistency is the key word. But we don't want to lose the art of a defender stealing the ball away from an opponent who slaps/punches or hooks the ball away

Voted no, there wouldn't be much games if we went the two ref route (at club level anyway) and if two refs have different interpretations of the same rules things could get very messy.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 03, 2014, 02:09:07 PM

I don't think using two refs is a practical idea. I feel it would cause more problems that it would solve. Two different personalities could lead to two different interpretations of some rules. A red card at one end might only be a yellow or a ticking off at the other.
Some of the rules are in need of major reform as things stand so there's no point in adding to the confusion that is already there.
What happens in the grey areas around centre field.?
Say a kickout is taken; seven or eight players are jostling under the  dropping ball;  at least a half dozen fouls are committed in the process as a maul develops and no referee can see what happening on the blind side, as it were.
So it's inevitable that ref A may award a free to one side while ref B awards a free to the other.
Ah, the more I think of it, the more I think two referees would only add to problems, no take from there.

I'm not sure if it works like that. I think the way they do it is whichever ref blows the whistle gets to make the call. And they stay in their own half of the field, so there's seldom a time when both of them are on top of the action.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 03, 2014, 12:29:40 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on September 03, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
Umpires have difficulty calling a point or a wide. It's laughable sometimes.

I've umpired quite a few times and if the ball is over the height of the posts and falling at an angle that you can't get behind the post to view from, it ain't that easy.

I've seen me waving wide and getting dog's abuse from the sideline from players that are adamant that it was a point. From there it probably looked like it, but I was in a good position and it was clear that the ball had curled around the outside of the post before coming down. I've never understood why footballers kick the ball so high above the uprights, surely if they wanted to make sure of it they should aim for it to drop between the posts.

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 02:59:35 PM
At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

on that last point Dave. Show me footage of 2/3/4 men all tackling the ball at the same time. Dont even think it is physically possible without the player in possession getting slapped, which is a foul

The rule doesn't say they have to tackle the ball only that a player in possession may be tackled by an opponent or opponents. If no individual defender is fouling then it's not a foul simply because there are three or four of them there

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 09:20:58 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 02:59:35 PM
At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

on that last point Dave. Show me footage of 2/3/4 men all tackling the ball at the same time. Dont even think it is physically possible without the player in possession getting slapped, which is a foul

The rule doesn't say they have to tackle the ball only that a player in possession may be tackled by an opponent or opponents. If no individual defender is fouling then it's not a foul simply because there are three or four of them there

The tackle is defined in the official rules as 'the tackle is aimed at the ball, not the man'. A plethora of men slapping at a man in position is a foul all day long. Seeing a reck of men near dry riding an opponent to get the ball is a poor spectacle

It's interesting to see that there are more people in favor of two referees and there are against it.  Some of the major advantages in my opinion are

1) the referees should be much closer to the action and will be able to keep an eye on what is going on much more closely than with only one referee
2)players will be less likely to Pull, drag and whatever else off the ballwhen they know that there's another referee on the field looking at them
3)Having referees closer to the action should ensure that they don't miss any of the obvious fouls or give away soft frees like the ones Kerry got in the first half of extra time.

I think it's worth a shot and croke park should consider introducing it for the Fbd and some of the other provincial tournaments  that happen in January and February.  If it fails then so be it but I feel we owe the players supporters and mgmt more than they are currently getting from referees in general.

This reminds me of an amalgamation of two clubs a few years ago. I ask a good friend from one of the clubs how they were getting on. His reply was last year we were bad, now we are twice as bad. The same analogy can be applied to  two referees!

Quote from: From the Bunker on September 04, 2014, 09:48:58 AM
This reminds me of an amalgamation of two clubs a few years ago. I ask a good friend from one of the clubs how they were getting on. His reply was last year we were bad, now we are twice as bad. The same analogy can be applied to  two referees!

How can you say that until you try it?  I'm sure when the bicycle was invented there were many who said it would never work, same for the car, the computer, the two refs the airplane and the sausage roll.

Stupid idea and a non runner, in football there should be no reason why a referee should not be more 15/20 metres away from the a player with the ball. That's a hell of a lot closer than supporters (who know all the rules). The referee at the other end will be standing about like a dick!!

In hurling it's different one puck of the ball and you can be 60/70 yards away from the ball. But with good positioning and a good knowledge of the players you can get yourself in an area that you can see almost everything. We are going over the top on this, amateur sport played and officiated by armatures.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 04, 2014, 05:04:50 PM
Stupid idea and a non runner, in football there should be no reason why a referee should not be more 15/20 metres away from the a player with the ball. That's a hell of a lot closer than supporters (who know all the rules). The referee at the other end will be standing about like a dick!!

In hurling it's different one puck of the ball and you can be 60/70 yards away from the ball. But with good positioning and a good knowledge of the players you can get yourself in an area that you can see almost everything. We are going over the top on this, amateur sport played and officiated by armatures.

You're talking through your arse.

A dispossession and kick pass can get the ball 30 metres away in the space of a few seconds - I could locate several passages of play from the semi finals where the ball travelled over 120 metres in the space of 6-8 seconds. By your logic - any ref should be able to cover 100 metres in that time......

Quote from: brianboru00 on September 04, 2014, 05:37:45 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 04, 2014, 05:04:50 PM
Stupid idea and a non runner, in football there should be no reason why a referee should not be more 15/20 metres away from the a player with the ball. That's a hell of a lot closer than supporters (who know all the rules). The referee at the other end will be standing about like a dick!!

In hurling it's different one puck of the ball and you can be 60/70 yards away from the ball. But with good positioning and a good knowledge of the players you can get yourself in an area that you can see almost everything. We are going over the top on this, amateur sport played and officiated by armatures.

You're talking through your arse.

A dispossession and kick pass can get the ball 30 metres away in the space of a few seconds - I could locate several passages of play from the semi finals where the ball travelled over 120 metres in the space of 6-8 seconds. By your logic - any ref should be able to cover 100 metres in that time......

As long as he's twenty meters from it he'll be fine, and its bogball, not too many kick passes in todays game  ;D

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 04, 2014, 05:04:50 PM
Stupid idea and a non runner, in football there should be no reason why a referee should not be more 15/20 metres away from the a player with the ball. That's a hell of a lot closer than supporters (who know all the rules). The referee at the other end will be standing about like a dick!!

In hurling it's different one puck of the ball and you can be 60/70 yards away from the ball. But with good positioning and a good knowledge of the players you can get yourself in an area that you can see almost everything. We are going over the top on this, amateur sport played and officiated by armatures.

armature:   the part of an electric motor or generator that produces an electric current when it turns in a magnetic field

I haven't heard much torque about this!

Quote from: muppet on September 04, 2014, 06:07:19 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 04, 2014, 05:04:50 PM
Stupid idea and a non runner, in football there should be no reason why a referee should not be more 15/20 metres away from the a player with the ball. That's a hell of a lot closer than supporters (who know all the rules). The referee at the other end will be standing about like a dick!!

In hurling it's different one puck of the ball and you can be 60/70 yards away from the ball. But with good positioning and a good knowledge of the players you can get yourself in an area that you can see almost everything. We are going over the top on this, amateur sport played and officiated by armatures.

armature:   the part of an electric motor or generator that produces an electric current when it turns in a magnetic field

I haven't heard much torque about this!

::)

Quote from: muppet on September 04, 2014, 06:07:19 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 04, 2014, 05:04:50 PM
Stupid idea and a non runner, in football there should be no reason why a referee should not be more 15/20 metres away from the a player with the ball. That's a hell of a lot closer than supporters (who know all the rules). The referee at the other end will be standing about like a dick!!

In hurling it's different one puck of the ball and you can be 60/70 yards away from the ball. But with good positioning and a good knowledge of the players you can get yourself in an area that you can see almost everything. We are going over the top on this, amateur sport played and officiated by armatures.

armature:   the part of an electric motor or generator that produces an electric current when it turns in a magnetic field

I haven't heard much torque about this!

;D ;D

Quote from: macdanger2 on September 04, 2014, 06:26:01 PM

Quote from: muppet on September 04, 2014, 06:07:19 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 04, 2014, 05:04:50 PM
Stupid idea and a non runner, in football there should be no reason why a referee should not be more 15/20 metres away from the a player with the ball. That's a hell of a lot closer than supporters (who know all the rules). The referee at the other end will be standing about like a dick!!

In hurling it's different one puck of the ball and you can be 60/70 yards away from the ball. But with good positioning and a good knowledge of the players you can get yourself in an area that you can see almost everything. We are going over the top on this, amateur sport played and officiated by armatures.

armature:   the part of an electric motor or generator that produces an electric current when it turns in a magnetic field

I haven't heard much torque about this!

;D ;D

Thats funny in fairness MR2 :-)

It's funny, I did laugh

If we are going to pull me for spelling the we'd have open season on most on the board, where is Hardy?

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

And?

My point is that forwards pull and drag too.  ::) this was aimed at the view that only backs foul...... so yeah ::)

I think they should watch back the games after and give yellows and reds out for stuff the ref missed. If all that crsp was took care of maybe the ref might have an easier time making calls.

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 09:50:51 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 09:20:58 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 02:59:35 PM
At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

on that last point Dave. Show me footage of 2/3/4 men all tackling the ball at the same time. Dont even think it is physically possible without the player in possession getting slapped, which is a foul

The rule doesn't say they have to tackle the ball only that a player in possession may be tackled by an opponent or opponents. If no individual defender is fouling then it's not a foul simply because there are three or four of them there

The tackle is defined in the official rules as 'the tackle is aimed at the ball, not the man'. A plethora of men slapping at a man in position is a foul all day long. Seeing a reck of men near dry riding an opponent to get the ball is a poor spectacle

The tackle is defined as "The Tackle is a skill by which a player may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. The tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. The tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact can be a Fair Charge i.e. Shoulder-to-shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. More than one player can tackle the player in possession"

So again the rule doesn't say the ball has to be tackled just that it has to be the aim of the tackle and that no deliberate contact other than a charge is allowed so again if no individual defender is fouling then the fact there are two, three or more defenders there doesn't make it a foul. 

Also as stated in the definition, the tackle is a skill just like any other skill in the game and well organised defences can be just as interesting as any man to man system of yesteryear. 

To avoid multiple men tackling, move the ball quickly and make sure the man in possession always has plenty of options and doesn't have to go into contact.

but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden.

And practically all of that happened on Sunday both on and off the ball most of which was missed by the refs

Quote from: sligoman2 on September 05, 2014, 12:20:58 PM
but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden.

And practically all of that happened on Sunday both on and off the ball most of which was missed by the refs

I'd say the referee didn't miss them, just didn't blow for them as he'd have the whistle jammed in his mouth all day and be castigated from all and sundry for not letting the play flow.

What's a referee to do?

Sure just look at what happened when the Mayo lad kicked out at the Kerry lad and got the red card. We'd a gobshite commentator and his sidekick saying it was very harsh and not in the spirit of the game whatever that means. A few days later the red card is rescinded due to a technicality, what sort of message does that send out to referees?

Quote from: johnneycool on September 05, 2014, 01:07:52 PM

Quote from: sligoman2 on September 05, 2014, 12:20:58 PM
but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden.

And practically all of that happened on Sunday both on and off the ball most of which was missed by the refs

I'd say the referee didn't miss them, just didn't blow for them as he'd have the whistle jammed in his mouth all day and be castigated from all and sundry for not letting the play flow.

What's a referee to do?

Sure just look at what happened when the Mayo lad kicked out at the Kerry lad and got the red card. We'd a gobshite commentator and his sidekick saying it was very harsh and not in the spirit of the game whatever that means. A few days later the red card is rescinded due to a technicality, what sort of message does that send out to referees?

Does anyone remember how far Deegan was away from the incident?  Would he have made the red card decision if he knew Keegan didn't make contact?  I still don't understand how it was overturned if the rule say even an attempt at kicking is a red?  What was the technicality that allowed him to play...

Quote from: sligoman2 on September 05, 2014, 01:16:10 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on September 05, 2014, 01:07:52 PM

Quote from: sligoman2 on September 05, 2014, 12:20:58 PM
but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden.

And practically all of that happened on Sunday both on and off the ball most of which was missed by the refs

I'd say the referee didn't miss them, just didn't blow for them as he'd have the whistle jammed in his mouth all day and be castigated from all and sundry for not letting the play flow.

What's a referee to do?

Sure just look at what happened when the Mayo lad kicked out at the Kerry lad and got the red card. We'd a gobshite commentator and his sidekick saying it was very harsh and not in the spirit of the game whatever that means. A few days later the red card is rescinded due to a technicality, what sort of message does that send out to referees?

Does anyone remember how far Deegan was away from the incident?  Would he have made the red card decision if he knew Keegan didn't make contact?  I still don't understand how it was overturned if the rule say even an attempt at kicking is a red?  What was the technicality that allowed him to play...

What I heard was that Deegan Coldrick put him down for "kicking with minimal force" in his report. Video evidence showed no contact made. Therefore proved referee's report was incorrect so overturned suspension. Kicking and attempting the kick are the same by the rules but by just putting down kicking Deegan Coldrick left the door open for this to be overturned. A surprising mistake for such an experienced official to make.....

Deegan?

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 04, 2014, 10:48:45 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

And?

My point is that forwards pull and drag too.  ::) this was aimed at the view that only backs foul...... so yeah ::)

eh? obviously you're a deep thinker. So I'll just let you get on with your thinking

Sorry, it wasn't Deegan. It was Coldrick.

Just imagine TWO Duffys on the one field.

Quote from: Jinxy on September 05, 2014, 02:13:28 PM
Just imagine TWO Duffys on the one field.

Twice as bad!

Doesn't matter. The GAA and rules/laws are incompatible.
Hard decisions are often made on sentiment and personal interpretation rather than rules.
Not the referees fault that no one would tolerate literal application of whats written as "rules"

Quote from: David McKeown on September 04, 2014, 11:22:16 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 09:50:51 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 09:20:58 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: David McKeown on September 03, 2014, 02:59:35 PM
At the top level the game, the sport is too fast and too professional for amateur refs. Is it time for professional refs? An additional ref may help as a ref closer to the decision might have more chance of getting it right and less chance of being conned by a cute player.

Also on the rule about 2/3/4 etc men tackles. The rule is a player(s) May tackle an opponent for the ball so there is nothing wrong with multiple defenders tackling and the offensive player should be blown for over carrying if they have over carried

on that last point Dave. Show me footage of 2/3/4 men all tackling the ball at the same time. Dont even think it is physically possible without the player in possession getting slapped, which is a foul

The rule doesn't say they have to tackle the ball only that a player in possession may be tackled by an opponent or opponents. If no individual defender is fouling then it's not a foul simply because there are three or four of them there

The tackle is defined in the official rules as 'the tackle is aimed at the ball, not the man'. A plethora of men slapping at a man in position is a foul all day long. Seeing a reck of men near dry riding an opponent to get the ball is a poor spectacle

The tackle is defined as "The Tackle is a skill by which a player may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. The tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. The tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact can be a Fair Charge i.e. Shoulder-to-shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. More than one player can tackle the player in possession"

So again the rule doesn't say the ball has to be tackled just that it has to be the aim of the tackle and that no deliberate contact other than a charge is allowed so again if no individual defender is fouling then the fact there are two, three or more defenders there doesn't make it a foul. 

Also as stated in the definition, the tackle is a skill just like any other skill in the game and well organised defences can be just as interesting as any man to man system of yesteryear. 

To avoid multiple men tackling, move the ball quickly and make sure the man in possession always has plenty of options and doesn't have to go into contact.

I completely appreciate tackling is a skill. I was a defender myself. The first bit in bold, the slapping etc is forbidden, ie a foul. How many times have you seen 3/4/5 men all tackling the ball? Its pretty much physically impossible without the man in possession getting slapped about surely? To me, its a foul pretty much everytime.
Tackling is the biggest issue for refs. How many times would you watch a match a tackle happens and you think, whats he gonna give? a: a free to the man in possession or b: penalise for over carrying. 4 men tackling a man might be OK one time, 2 mins later its a foul. Game after game its the same.

For me, Id allow only one man to tackle a player. The game should be skills lead, tackling, shooting , passing etc, with the brut force scrum like tackling sidelined . Trial it at least

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 04, 2014, 10:48:45 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

And?

My point is that forwards pull and drag too.  ::) this was aimed at the view that only backs foul...... so yeah ::)

thats is a whole separate issue in my view.
What is generally deemed a foul in one are of the field , would never be given in another.
We always get complaints about the treatment forwards get ( and maybe rightly so in some situations) but the amount of fouling  forwards can get away with at times is unreal.
the same with the application of  cards.
its got to the stage now where ANY foul by a defender is a yellow card, or at least a  tick, whereas if its a forward fouling a  defender coming out, it needs to be a serious foul or about his 10th offence in order for him to get a card.
its a serious area of inconstancy.

Quote from: fearglasmor on September 05, 2014, 02:17:19 PM
Doesn't matter. The GAA and rules/laws are incompatible.
Hard decisions are often made on sentiment and personal interpretation rather than rules.
Not the referees fault that no one would tolerate literal application of whats written as "rules"

Correct.

Give an Irishman a rule book and he'll try to circumvent each and every one of them to suit his needs at that particular time and later insist that they are followed to the letter of the law when it doesn't suit.

Quote from: johnneycool on September 05, 2014, 02:41:50 PM

Quote from: fearglasmor on September 05, 2014, 02:17:19 PM
Doesn't matter. The GAA and rules/laws are incompatible.
Hard decisions are often made on sentiment and personal interpretation rather than rules.
Not the referees fault that no one would tolerate literal application of whats written as "rules"

Correct.

Give an Irishman a rule book and he'll try to circumvent each and every one of them to suit his needs at that particular time and later insist that they are followed to the letter of the law when it doesn't suit.

I'll remember that next time I'm do your neck of the woods lol

Quote from: magpie seanie on September 05, 2014, 02:10:15 PM
Sorry, it wasn't Deegan. It was Coldrick.

Sorry it was coldrick -my mistake

Good article

http://www.gaa.ie/82a2eb

Quote from: J OGorman on September 05, 2014, 02:09:40 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 04, 2014, 10:48:45 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

And?

My point is that forwards pull and drag too.  ::) this was aimed at the view that only backs foul...... so yeah ::)

eh? obviously you're a deep thinker. So I'll just let you get on with your thinking

Eh? Obviously you're not, so yeah, move on there. Next time read it a few times before replying, good lad.

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 05, 2014, 05:32:26 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 05, 2014, 02:09:40 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 04, 2014, 10:48:45 PM

Quote from: J OGorman on September 03, 2014, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: Dangleberrys on September 03, 2014, 11:50:56 AM
Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender ::)

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?

And?

My point is that forwards pull and drag too.  ::) this was aimed at the view that only backs foul...... so yeah ::)

eh? obviously you're a deep thinker. So I'll just let you get on with your thinking

Eh? Obviously you're not, so yeah, move on there. Next time read it a few times before replying, good lad.

You're a dangleberry

(http://i.imgur.com/3GRA6fa.gif)

horseshit


Get the right man to ref the game, the ref at the mayo match was a disgrace and should be ashamed of his performance or lack of

he was so obviously biased towards kerry, and  as a donegal man i hope the final isnt ruined by similiar poor biased whistles

Another All -ireland semi final with a bad no call for a penalty for Tyrone.  I thought Deegan did a good gob overall but again I feel that one man can't possibly watch everything that is going on. 
Its time for two refs for all county games in my opinion.

Quote from: sligoman2 on August 23, 2015, 05:28:02 PM
Another All -ireland semi final with a bad no call for a penalty for Tyrone.  I thought Deegan did a good gob overall but again I feel that one man can't possibly watch everything that is going on. 
Its time for two refs for all county games in my opinion.

Feck sake he has 4 umpires, two linesmen (who are qualified Referees) and anther lad along the line for timekeeping and subs. How much more help does he need? I mean that's 7 people that can help him out in various circumstances.

And Hawkeye. Don't forget Hawkeye.

Canning today wanted Hawkeye to decide on 45 vs. wide. Carney seemed to think it was a good idea too, but then he's a flute.

Quote from: From the Bunker on August 23, 2015, 06:00:58 PM

Quote from: sligoman2 on August 23, 2015, 05:28:02 PM
Another All -ireland semi final with a bad no call for a penalty for Tyrone.  I thought Deegan did a good gob overall but again I feel that one man can't possibly watch everything that is going on. 
Its time for two refs for all county games in my opinion.

Feck sake he has 4 umpires, two linesmen (who are qualified Referees) and anther lad along the line for timekeeping and subs. How much more help does he need? I mean that's 7 people that can help him out in various circumstances.

and they still manage to f**k it up. Bring in a TMO. Pragmatic solution.

Quote from: From the Bunker on August 23, 2015, 06:00:58 PM

Quote from: sligoman2 on August 23, 2015, 05:28:02 PM
Another All -ireland semi final with a bad no call for a penalty for Tyrone.  I thought Deegan did a good gob overall but again I feel that one man can't possibly watch everything that is going on. 
Its time for two refs for all county games in my opinion.

Feck sake he has 4 umpires, two linesmen (who are qualified Referees) and anther lad along the line for timekeeping and subs. How much more help does he need? I mean that's 7 people that can help him out in various circumstances.

As far as I know only the red can call a penalty so linesmen etc don't count.  Shocking call for Tyrones black card also, Deegan was behind the play and couldn't see what happened.  Having a ref in both halves might change that

One ref can't even be consistent with himself, imagine two of them?

How did they arrive at 2 minutes stoppage time today. Numerous subs, a few injuries (Cavanagh and Cooper down twice off the top of my head) and they give 2 minutes! Imagine having Marty Duffy in one half and Paudie Hughes in another. They would be fighting each other to see who could get the most attention. No thanks.

A Duffy in each half.
The stuff of nightmares.

Once again I state that the time has come for two refs.  I feel bad for Joe Mcquillan who made a terrible decision but a decision he felt was the correct one. 


Disgusted with Aidan Oshea he should hang his head in shame, no place for this in Gaelic  football

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 10, 2016, 06:40:27 AM
Once again I state that the time has come for two refs.  I feel bad for Joe Mcquillan who made a terrible decision but a decision he felt was the correct one. 


Disgusted with Aidan Oshea he should hang his head in shame, no place for this in Gaelic  football

You're right - it has no place in football and something should be done to stamp it out. But looking at it objectively (and forgetting all the faux outrage), is what AOS anything more than an extreme example of what happens in practically every club and county game around the country? Corner forwards grabbing the arm of the defender and going to ground is cheating in the exact same way, it's just less obvious. This isn't something AOS invented, it's almost become part of the game at this stage.

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 10, 2016, 06:40:27 AM
Once again I state that the time has come for two refs.  I feel bad for Joe Mcquillan who made a terrible decision but a decision he felt was the correct one. 


Disgusted with Aidan Oshea he should hang his head in shame, no place for this in Gaelic  football

We already have three refs at intercounty games. The problem is that two of them are being wasted calling sideline balls and very little else.

I agree with you sentiment but I think if the two linesmen are brought in from the line they'll still be able to do their current job as well as act as additional referees.

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 10, 2016, 06:40:27 AM
I feel bad for Joe Mcquillan who made a terrible decision but a decision he felt was the correct one. 

No he didn't, he just guessed and gave a decision in favour of O'Shea who had been in his ear all day complaining about how he was being treated by those rough boys from Fermanagh. 

McQuillan, like a number of other so called top referees, interprets the rules of the game instead of implementing them because he believes he knows better than the rule makers.  The black card was meant to reduce certain behaviours including cynical fouls, O'Shea should have been off the field long before the penalty decision in which McQuillan at best could not see what was happening before claiming he saw a jersey pull.  Referees should just implement the rules as written, there is no need for interpretation but first they need to know the rules in detail. If this was a Premier League soccer game, McQuillan would be stood down from top line games until he proved himself in lower levels.  In the GAA, he will be given an even more important game to prove the arrogance of the organisation when any challenge is mounted or evident.

No thought is given to the Fermanagh players who have put everything into their efforts this year and had it taken away from them by non-implementation of the rules of the game and poor decision-making.  Time for change is long over due and it doesn't mean having two poor decision makers on the field instead of one.

Quote from: Disillusioned on July 10, 2016, 10:08:43 AM

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 10, 2016, 06:40:27 AM
I feel bad for Joe Mcquillan who made a terrible decision but a decision he felt was the correct one. 

No he didn't, he just guessed and gave a decision in favour of O'Shea who had been in his ear all day complaining about how he was being treated by those rough boys from Fermanagh. 

McQuillan, like a number of other so called top referees, interprets the rules of the game instead of implementing them because he believes he knows better than the rule makers.  The black card was meant to reduce certain behaviours including cynical fouls, O'Shea should have been off the field long before the penalty decision in which McQuillan at best could not see what was happening before claiming he saw a jersey pull.  Referees should just implement the rules as written, there is no need for interpretation but first they need to know the rules in detail. If this was a Premier League soccer game, McQuillan would be stood down from top line games until he proved himself in lower levels.  In the GAA, he will be given an even more important game to prove the arrogance of the organisation when any challenge is mounted or evident.

No thought is given to the Fermanagh players who have put everything into their efforts this year and had it taken away from them by non-implementation of the rules of the game and poor decision-making.  Time for change is long over due and it doesn't mean having two poor decision makers on the field instead of one.

McQuillan was about 50 metres from the incident and the umpire was clearly shown to indicate a jersey pull. Isn't it plausible and even likely that he took the advice of his umpires?

Quote from: Esmarelda on July 10, 2016, 10:23:10 AM
McQuillan was about 50 metres from the incident and the umpire was clearly shown to indicate a jersey pull. Isn't it plausible and even likely that he took the advice of his umpires?

We're not talking about a (relatively) inconsequential free here, but a game-changing penalty. So Mc Quillan still fails on several counts: 1. too far off the pace and too far away from the action 2. For an incident that he had no clear sight of (apparently), to take the uncorroborated word of his umpire for such a key decision is remiss (why couldn't he have confirmed it with his linesman?). 3. The deceiving individual in question, O'Shea, should not still have been on the pitch, due to the referee's earlier incompetence in not awarding a black card for O'Shea's cynical foul.

What might work would be something similar to Aussie rules were u sight an opposing player after the game and a committee looks at all these infringements on a tue/wed. eg black card that was missed during a game would mean 2 game ban. If the punishment was doubled up and players knew they wouldn't get away with something behind a refs back then I think it would stop a lot of foul play.

It couldnt be hard to take a look at replays on a tv screen by an official somewhere for big calls like penaltys or square balls either,

If it was the umpire then not the first time one of these untrained mates of a referee has decided to take matters into his own hands and give incorrect information.

Can't see how a jersey pull would result in such a fall to the ground, hence it was always a dive by the cheat O'Shea and we are left to speculate on the motives of the umpire.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 10, 2016, 10:44:08 AM

Quote from: Esmarelda on July 10, 2016, 10:23:10 AM
McQuillan was about 50 metres from the incident and the umpire was clearly shown to indicate a jersey pull. Isn't it plausible and even likely that he took the advice of his umpires?

We're not talking about a (relatively) inconsequential free here, but a game-changing penalty. So Mc Quillan still fails on several counts: 1. too far off the pace and too far away from the action 2. For an incident that he had no clear sight of (apparently), to take the uncorroborated word of his umpire for such a key decision is remiss (why couldn't he have confirmed it with his linesman?). 3. The deceiving individual in question, O'Shea, should not still have been on the pitch, due to the referee's earlier incompetence in not awarding a black card for O'Shea's cynical foul.

How is a ref supposed to keep up with the game? If a long ball is given in he's automatically behind the play. Maybe he asked the linesman and the linesman saw nothing. What then? One says yes the other says no? If it had been a definite penalty and he decided to go with "no" then he'd have gotten abuse too. The umpire to the right as we look at it was best placed to call it.

I don't recall the foul you're talking about it, was it the high tackle he got a yellow for?

I'm not saying the ref had a perfect game. I just have sympathy for him as the game is impossible to referee as it stands.

A lot of over the top comments on here today. Not everybody can go home happy, unfortunatly.

A pretty straight forward solution would be a TMO. Have another ref up in the stand with a TV monitor. Any suspicion of a penalty - radio him, consult the umpire or linesman. Same for any decision with which a referee is not 100% sure of.

Majority rules - if 2 out of three from the ref, TMO and linesman/umpire agree on a decision - that decision goes. This would lift an immeasurable amount of pressure off the referees, would lead to less cynicism/cheating and ensure more fair play for all concerned.

Joe McQuillan had referees as umpires yesterday. The umpire who called it has refereed the Cavan County final and does most matches in the Cavan championship each year.

I would be interested in what the assessor made of the ref in Clones yesterday, for about an hour last night  we felt he was riding us . He seemed to realise the 2nd black card was wrong and seemed to give everything to us in the closing minutes. He took advise from Cassidy who also made the 1st blackcard call and who was the referee in our match against Down and was let know by Longford players and managemen how they viewed his preformance. Was this a factor ? . While I would accept they all try to do their best ,last night in Clones all match officials where from Ulster, sideline officials all Ulster council plus the referee's umpires . Total  11 'match officials ' from Ulster where an Ulster team playing a Leinster team . This will always lead to accusations of bias

Read this to see how referees are manipulated at county level:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/gaa-referees-back-in-the-crosshairs-408527.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/gaa-referees-back-in-the-crosshairs-408527.html)

A lot of all this crap could be cut out, if they had a TMO, like in rugby.

Quote from: Disillusioned on July 11, 2016, 12:03:57 AM
Read this to see how referees are manipulated at county level:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/gaa-referees-back-in-the-crosshairs-408527.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/gaa-referees-back-in-the-crosshairs-408527.html)

Shaking hands with the ref is and has always been par for the course, generally the wining team will always thank the official after the match and during it (when he awards a free against the other team) gaining a perceived advantage in any game is not gamesmanship in my view its about covering all areas, no stone unturned ....

Players calling you (the ref) by name during games tends to annoy players that don't know the ref's name... for whatever reason they think you're best mates!! Again can't be helped, players will do that....

but to say that a referee will deliberately be biased on a game that is being watched by 1500 at the game, assessors in the stand and watched by how many thousand on tv and assessed by the jokers at halftime and fulltime is deluded.. They don't get to that level being biased or easy influenced... it will only go against them

With all the discussion about the Kerry free that wasn't given I thought I would rehash this thread.  I thought the ref was good today but NO one person can monitor everything and can't be close to the action all the time..

I personally think 2 refs is crucial in order to minimize the number of bad and missed calls. Game is too fast for one ref -  gaa powers should realize this. I would also suggest a tv ref

What would the TV ref adjudicate on?

Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2016, 02:36:45 PM
What would the TV ref adjudicate on?

Did Johnny Cooper ground Darran O'Sullivan?

Sligoman there are already 2 linesmen and 4 umpires who all communicate with the red during the game but I agree for the big televised game a TV official would be worth a try.

I think it could be left to the referee's discretion what he wants them to look at and so like Hawkeye they decide to ask for advice like the rugby refs do. It would be very helpful to see if there were yellow or red card offences or if someone just dived. Linesmen can inform the ref of something he missed and then he goes to the TV official to tell him what he sees.

Linesmen are not out on the field where the action is.  Refs are but they can't be where the ball is kicked from and where it lands at he same time.  A decent kick of 60 yards will take about 2 seconds while it would take a ref at least 10 seconds to run that far.

Tv ref would watch be able to tell the ref what actually happened not what the ref thought he saw from 60 yards away - especially when an all ireland semi final is on the line

Give me an idea of how that would work in practice though?
What incidents would it be used for?

Don't know about 2 ref but a ref from a neutral province would be a bloody good start

The last day we had three Referees controlling the game. One in the middle and 2 either side along the line. If you give the 2 on the side a small bit more power, would it help?

Not if its the 2 duffy brothers, you be asking for trouble lol

How about looking at the sin bin for yellow cards...Micko is no longer around to lead the crusade against it...has to be better than the black card....

Maybe keep the black card for body check and abusing officials and other players. If a player is deliberately fouled when through on goal then give a straight red.

Okay.
Lets imagine an alternate universe where we had a video ref for the game yesterday.
Tell me which incidents the video ref was called on for.

Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2016, 10:42:41 PM
Okay.
Lets imagine an alternate universe where we had a video ref for the game yesterday.
Tell me which incidents the video ref was called on for.

Off the top of my head

1) The McMenamin shoulder to the Chest in the last few minutes
2) The second Kerry Goal, perhaps a slo mo view of whether or not the whole ball crossed the line rather than an umpire who seemed to make the right call but was blocked somewhat by Cluxton
3)  A lot of the off the ball stuff that cameras pick up but refs don't

I don't understand why people say 2 linesmen and a ref is enough, it's not, why not at least try 2 refs and a TV ref.  I know old habits die hard, but I think it's time for two refs and a time clock - I've been beating this drum for some time and will  continue the good fight..

I would assume that 2 refs result in less fouls been called as players would be aware of the proximity of the refs.

1. On Sunday, the play didn't stop as the referee didn't deem it to be a foul. So who stops the game to review the incident, the referee or the TMO?
2. Technology wise it's probably easy enough to do a la soccer, but would only be available in Croke Park & Thurles, like Hawkeye.
3. Again, how does that work? Who stops the game to look at an incident?

I would favour the two refs solution, but each ref should have his own two linesmen in each half as well.
The game is too fast, with too many variables for a video ref to work well.

With HawkEye if a score or wide is given wrongly then they tell the ref and he changes the decision so I can see something similar with a TMO. If the ref misses a foul the TMO tells him and it's up to the ref to heed it or to ignore it.

Most games from quarterfinals onwards tend to be in Croke park anyway so I think it would be easy enough to try it out for a year to see what they think. I'm sure the refs themselves would much prefer it as they would get a lot more decisions correct.
If for example there was an off the ball incident at the other side of the pitch and the ref didn't see it then the umpire or linesman can radio to the ref and he talks to the TMO ref who looks at it like the incident in the Tipp v Mayo sending off and can then make the right call.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/four-talking-points-from-yesterdays-all-ireland-sfc-semi-final-418267.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/four-talking-points-from-yesterdays-all-ireland-sfc-semi-final-418267.html)

Quote from: Jinxy on August 30, 2016, 09:29:07 AM
1. On Sunday, the play didn't stop as the referee didn't deem it to be a foul. So who stops the game to review the incident, the referee or the TMO?
2. Technology wise it's probably easy enough to do a la soccer, but would only be available in Croke Park & Thurles, like Hawkeye.
3. Again, how does that work? Who stops the game to look at an incident?

I would favour the two refs solution, but each ref should have his own two linesmen in each half as well.
The game is too fast, with too many variables for a video ref to work well.

C'mon Jinxy, be serious..
As it is we have seven officials involved in a game and you propose adding three more!  ;D ;D
Why not follow the rugby route and empower any of his assistants to draw the ref's attention to an incident on the field?
As things stand, the potential for disaster is ever present if you get one horse's ass of a ref, (Martin Sludden?) but add in another and people will turn up for the craic and not be too fussed about the result.
Imagine the scene..
Joe Mac sees a foul out around midfield and reaches for the red card- no problem, this is an open and shut case. (Say two bucks fighting- one is clearly the culprit)
However, Maurice in the other half of the field sees an incident that happened a split second earlier and he too reaches for his red card.
Problem is that he deems the other head to be the guilty party.
So, what next?
Are both players going to the line or will the referees a coin to see which of them gets to wave his red card?
Better still they  could bate the shite outa each other in the true spirit of the GAA in the modern era.
The more I think of it, the more I'd like to see two refs proposal put into effect. Since most games are pure shiote anyway, you'd at least get some value for your money with the comedy going on out on the field.

Ever notice the way all the officials in rugby are looking at more or less the same area?
The players only come together for set pieces or in the tackle zone.
Also, it's a much smaller field of play.
In football or hurling, the ref and his linesmen could be down one end of the field while all hell breaks loose in the other half.
Having a ref in each half, with everyone miked up is a better solution than introducing a video ref.
At the moment, half the dopes at football matches think every foul is a black card, could you imagine the amount of roaring at the ref to "Go upstairs, ya bolox!"?

Quote from: Jinxy on August 30, 2016, 01:30:34 PM
Ever notice the way all the officials in rugby are looking at more or less the same area?
The players only come together for set pieces or in the tackle zone.
Also, it's a much smaller field of play.
In football or hurling, the ref and his linesmen could be down one end of the field while all hell breaks loose in the other half.
Having a ref in each half, with everyone miked up is a better solution than introducing a video ref.
At the moment, half the dopes at football matches think every foul is a black card, could you imagine the amount of roaring at the ref to "Go upstairs, ya bolox!"?

True but my point still holds; the linesman may draw the ref's attention to something that happens behind his back or if he's unsighted or whatever.
And in rugby also, there are plenty of off the ball incidents when the action is elsewhere. The principle of Occam's Razor should apply here.
Namely, if there are a number of suggested solutions to any issue, the least complicated one is generally the best.
You can't avoid problems if you have one set of rules for games played in, say, Croke Park at the quarter final stage or higher. But what about a club match in some godforsaken part of the country? (No I did not mention Roscommon!)
Could you expect ten officials to supervise the game when two small boys and a collie dog make up the entire attendance?

The collie could do one of the lines surely.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0921/906617-if-a-dub-did-what-keegan-did-thered-be-blue-murder/

Seems like Charlie Redmond agrees with my suggestion.  The amount of off the ball stuff that went untected or at least unreported was ridiculous, I'm not saying it should all be penalized but 2 refs imo would curtail a lot of this stuff.

Note to gaa - players don't fear linsemen or umpires, so that's not the answer as most of them see no evil or hear no evil..

That headline in the link should also have

If a dub did what O'Gara did ... oh wait gouging is fine

Quote from: sligoman2 on September 22, 2017, 04:14:39 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0921/906617-if-a-dub-did-what-keegan-did-thered-be-blue-murder/

Seems like Charlie Redmond agrees with my suggestion.  The amount of off the ball stuff that went untected or at least unreported was ridiculous, I'm not saying it should all be penalized but 2 refs imo would curtail a lot of this stuff.

Note to gaa - players don't fear linsemen or umpires, so that's not the answer as most of them see no evil or hear no evil..

A complete irony bypass from Charlie here:

Quote"Where would the argument be now? The debate would be, quite justifiably, that the result be set aside, the game replayed and whoever threw the GPS be banned for the next game.

Given that he was sent off in an allireland final, yet didnt go off .
I wonder would he thought it was 'justifiable' if the result was set aside in that game and replayed, with him suspended?

A lot of hyperbole about what Keegan did, but quite honestly it has been blown out of all proportion.

In regards to the second ref. this is something we dont need (and would be a disater IMO).
If we want to help the referees, give more power  and better communication to the assistant referees he already has in the form of linesmen and umpires.

With all the bad press the hurling refs have gotten the last few days, I think this subject will be brought up soon for debate.  To me it's common sense to have 2 refs, how can one man handle all the on the ball stuff never mind the nasty stuff going on off the ball.  I don't understand how this hasn't been implemented years ago to be honest.

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 29, 2019, 11:36:47 PM
With all the bad press the hurling refs have gotten the last few days, I think this subject will be brought up soon for debate.  To me it's common sense to have 2 refs, how can one man handle all the on the ball stuff never mind the nasty stuff going on off the ball.  I don't understand how this hasn't been implemented years ago to be honest.

The biggest problem is consistency. After a couple of minutes of a game, the Referee sets the agenda. You will get a fair idea of what he will be strict on and what he will let go. If you have two Referees this could cause conflict with decisions.

I get your point but the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion.  Having a ref in each half will cut down on off the ball stuff and will ensure a ref doesn't have to make a call from 80 yards away.  Think of all the bad calls that have been made over the years because the ref couldn't see what was going on because he was blocked or was too far away.  I think the consistency thing could be overcome easily by appointing refs with similar styles for games.  I think county players work way to hard to have a season taken away by bad or missed calls.  Look at the limerick sideline on Saturday, shocking that the ref, linesman and umpires all missed it yet every Limerick player did.  It's just not good enough.

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 29, 2019, 11:55:50 PM
I get your point but the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion.  Having a ref in each half will cut down on off the ball stuff and will ensure a ref doesn't have to make a call from 80 yards away.  Think of all the bad calls that have been made over the years because the ref couldn't see what was going on because he was blocked or was too far away.  I think the consistency thing could be overcome easily by appointing refs with similar styles for games.  I think county players work way to hard to have a season taken away by bad or missed calls.  Look at the limerick sideline on Saturday, shocking that the ref, linesman and umpires all missed it yet every Limerick player did.  It's just not good enough.

The linesman and his umpires didn't see it! But another ref on the other side of the pitch would have? Ffs stupid point, one ref is plenty, he's wired up to the umpires and linesmen plus fourth official at at Croke the Hawkeye team, but hey one more will sort it! Give the linesmen more power, I'm all for that, in circumstances I've refd at I'll blindly take the call of a linesman and blow straight away

Refs, like players won't always have the best game, anyone looking to have game played at rugby pace and monitored accordingly can go f**k themselves. The game is fine as it is, two cracking semifinals should produce a brilliant final

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2019, 12:42:48 AM

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 29, 2019, 11:55:50 PM
I get your point but the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion.  Having a ref in each half will cut down on off the ball stuff and will ensure a ref doesn't have to make a call from 80 yards away.  Think of all the bad calls that have been made over the years because the ref couldn't see what was going on because he was blocked or was too far away.  I think the consistency thing could be overcome easily by appointing refs with similar styles for games.  I think county players work way to hard to have a season taken away by bad or missed calls.  Look at the limerick sideline on Saturday, shocking that the ref, linesman and umpires all missed it yet every Limerick player did.  It's just not good enough.

The linesman and his umpires didn't see it! But another ref on the other side of the pitch would have? Ffs stupid point, one ref is plenty, he's wired up to the umpires and linesmen plus fourth official at at Croke the Hawkeye team, but hey one more will sort it! Give the linesmen more power, I'm all for that, in circumstances I've refd at I'll blindly take the call of a linesman and blow straight away

Refs, like players won't always have the best game, anyone looking to have game played at rugby pace and monitored accordingly can go f**k themselves. The game is fine as it is, two cracking semifinals should produce a brilliant final

An umpire is not a ref, and as an aside, wtf does there have to be two of them?  Two umpires each end,  4 in total but only one ref??

Two or more refs are used in many sports, even indoor court team handball where the game shifts end to end in a few seconds.  It's not about one ref's interpretation of the rules of the game, it's about the rules of the game being applied and two refs, one in each half, can work together to police the game.

Hurling rules are not meant to be implemented per say. They are merely guide lines. If you were to implement the game by the rule book then it would turn into a game of free's. I referee hurling game's and never once felt the need for two referee's. Even in bad tempered games. If you have good solid lines men and umpires that should be enough.

Why not just give a whistle to each of the men running the lines, since they are inter-county referees anyway?

Quote from: Main Street on July 30, 2019, 03:08:28 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2019, 12:42:48 AM

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 29, 2019, 11:55:50 PM
I get your point but the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion.  Having a ref in each half will cut down on off the ball stuff and will ensure a ref doesn't have to make a call from 80 yards away.  Think of all the bad calls that have been made over the years because the ref couldn't see what was going on because he was blocked or was too far away.  I think the consistency thing could be overcome easily by appointing refs with similar styles for games.  I think county players work way to hard to have a season taken away by bad or missed calls.  Look at the limerick sideline on Saturday, shocking that the ref, linesman and umpires all missed it yet every Limerick player did.  It's just not good enough.

The linesman and his umpires didn't see it! But another ref on the other side of the pitch would have? Ffs stupid point, one ref is plenty, he's wired up to the umpires and linesmen plus fourth official at at Croke the Hawkeye team, but hey one more will sort it! Give the linesmen more power, I'm all for that, in circumstances I've refd at I'll blindly take the call of a linesman and blow straight away

Refs, like players won't always have the best game, anyone looking to have game played at rugby pace and monitored accordingly can go f**k themselves. The game is fine as it is, two cracking semifinals should produce a brilliant final

An umpire is not a ref, and as an aside, wtf does there have to be two of them?  Two umpires each end,  4 in total but only one ref??

Two or more refs are used in many sports, even indoor court team handball where the game shifts end to end in a few seconds.  It's not about one ref's interpretation of the rules of the game, it's about the rules of the game being applied and two refs, one in each half, can work together to police the game.

I've highlighted what should be done, though you never seen that bit, the umpires are needed, if you've ever done umpire before at a club game on your own, its difficult enough to get the flight of the ball on your own side without having to go chasing over to the other side to catch sight of it, I'll agree that bog ball would be easier.

Counties struggle to get fixtures covered by referee's on a weekly bases, no shortage of keyboard ref's and kids tournament ref's or behind the fence ref's (who never knoow the rules) but now we are looking 2 referees at these games? Good one, good luck with that

Wouldn't it be a lot easier if people stopped complaining & accepted the fact that the officials are human like everyone else and will make mistakes.

It's a game at the end of the day.

Quote from: Ball Hopper on July 30, 2019, 04:17:05 AM
Why not just give a whistle to each of the men running the lines, since they are inter-county referees anyway?

So simple. Just get them to step in a few yards from the line, give them a whistle and away you go.

Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on July 30, 2019, 04:02:25 AM
Hurling rules are not meant to be implemented per say. They are merely guide lines. If you were to implement the game by the rule book then it would turn into a game of free's. I referee hurling game's and never once felt the need for two referee's. Even in bad tempered games. If you have good solid lines men and umpires that should be enough.

If you are going to use a Latin phrase in an attempt to look educated and lend weight to your point, it might be advisable to at least be able to spell the phrase correctly rather than give a phonetic rendering which indicates that you have not only never seen the words written down but do not really understand what they mean.

Hurley stuff, Refs, and Rules have a very loose association with each other ::)

Quote from: Rossfan on July 30, 2019, 11:12:43 AM
Hurley stuff, Refs, and Rules have a very loose association with each other ::)

Throw ball in. Blow for half time.. Throw ball in again. Blow for full time. Hurling is a manly game & reffing it is a piece of piss basically.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2019, 09:00:07 AM

Quote from: Main Street on July 30, 2019, 03:08:28 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2019, 12:42:48 AM

Quote from: sligoman2 on July 29, 2019, 11:55:50 PM
I get your point but the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion.  Having a ref in each half will cut down on off the ball stuff and will ensure a ref doesn't have to make a call from 80 yards away.  Think of all the bad calls that have been made over the years because the ref couldn't see what was going on because he was blocked or was too far away.  I think the consistency thing could be overcome easily by appointing refs with similar styles for games.  I think county players work way to hard to have a season taken away by bad or missed calls.  Look at the limerick sideline on Saturday, shocking that the ref, linesman and umpires all missed it yet every Limerick player did.  It's just not good enough.

The linesman and his umpires didn't see it! But another ref on the other side of the pitch would have? Ffs stupid point, one ref is plenty, he's wired up to the umpires and linesmen plus fourth official at at Croke the Hawkeye team, but hey one more will sort it! Give the linesmen more power, I'm all for that, in circumstances I've refd at I'll blindly take the call of a linesman and blow straight away

Refs, like players won't always have the best game, anyone looking to have game played at rugby pace and monitored accordingly can go f**k themselves. The game is fine as it is, two cracking semifinals should produce a brilliant final

An umpire is not a ref, and as an aside, wtf does there have to be two of them?  Two umpires each end,  4 in total but only one ref??

Two or more refs are used in many sports, even indoor court team handball where the game shifts end to end in a few seconds.  It's not about one ref's interpretation of the rules of the game, it's about the rules of the game being applied and two refs, one in each half, can work together to police the game.

I've highlighted what should be done, though you never seen that bit, the umpires are needed, if you've ever done umpire before at a club game on your own, its difficult enough to get the flight of the ball on your own side without having to go chasing over to the other side to catch sight of it, I'll agree that bog ball would be easier.

Counties struggle to get fixtures covered by referee's on a weekly bases, no shortage of keyboard ref's and kids tournament ref's or behind the fence ref's (who never knoow the rules) but now we are looking 2 referees at these games? Good one, good luck with that

Milltown, the title of the thread clearly states that this proposal is for county games only.  You are correct that it's hard to find refs now and in my opinion it's because of all the abuse they get.  My point is that having two refs will alleviate the pressure on one man AND cut out a lot of the nasty stuff that apparently linesmen and umps don't see or act on.
Unfortunately the default mode in most seasoned Gaa folk  is "change is bad" or "it's grand as it is".  I hope the GAA try the 2 refs out very soon, there too much effort being put in by players to have it all lost due bad calls made by refs who have an impossible task with the speed and tactics employed in today's game.

I get that, I'm a player, supporter/ manager and a ref. the effort all players put into the game at any level should be rewarded by better refereeing, no one would say any different, I just feel that an 'extra' ref, would not actually bring anything else to the game other than his interpretations of the same rules! ending up with two cheating/useless bstards who havent got a clue! :D

considering the ref's on the line and fourth official are all intercounty referees is more than enough to referee a game

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2019, 01:31:02 PM
I get that, I'm a player, supporter/ manager and a ref. the effort all players put into the game at any level should be rewarded by better refereeing, no one would say any different, I just feel that an 'extra' ref, would not actually bring anything else to the game other than his interpretations of the same rules! ending up with two cheating/useless bstards who havent got a clue! :D

considering the ref's on the line and fourth official are all intercounty referees is more than enough to referee a game

The issue is the cheating players and the coaching of cheating players, you could have 10 referees but if players are going out of their way to cheat it's going to be hard to get all calls correct.

Quote from: Esmarelda on July 30, 2019, 09:08:18 AM

Quote from: Ball Hopper on July 30, 2019, 04:17:05 AM
Why not just give a whistle to each of the men running the lines, since they are inter-county referees anyway?

So simple. Just get them to step in a few yards from the line, give them a whistle and away you go.

Or umpires as they are well . . . .  brothers, nephews, drinking buddies of the ref!

While players/coaches have to take responsibility for the cheating element surely the next logical step if for linesmen and umpires to actually have an input.

Even at county level they seem unable/unwilling to give any sort of help to the referee - you will off course get the odd time a fella gets a belt at the other side of the field being caught by the umpire but if they other 6 pairs of eyes actually helped the ref surely things would improve?

Quote from: t_mac on July 30, 2019, 01:40:59 PM

Quote from: Esmarelda on July 30, 2019, 09:08:18 AM

Quote from: Ball Hopper on July 30, 2019, 04:17:05 AM
Why not just give a whistle to each of the men running the lines, since they are inter-county referees anyway?

So simple. Just get them to step in a few yards from the line, give them a whistle and away you go.

Or umpires as they are well . . . .  brothers, nephews, drinking buddies of the ref!

Nearly impossible to have it any other way, for these refs to have someone heading around the country to help the ref out is hard work, they are giving up a whole day or possibly a night, there are umpire courses that I'd say all of the umpires you see would have gone through

I thought I was resurrect this thread to see if opinions have changed on this topic.  I still firmly believe that 2 refs are required especially with the pace of the game now and the amount of "nasty stuff" that happens off the ball.  I reset the poll so people can vote if they would like.

I'm still surprised it hasn't been tried. As stated before, Milwaukee HC (always innovative) has done it for years in their internal league.

Quote from: sligoman2 on November 01, 2021, 07:27:29 PM
I thought I was resurrect this thread to see if opinions have changed on this topic.  I still firmly believe that 2 refs are required especially with the pace of the game now and the amount of "nasty stuff" that happens off the ball. I reset the poll so people can vote if they would like.

Voting is still closed though?

Voting closed: October 03, 2014, 01:58:39 AM

Is it open now?

Yes, working now. Thanks.

Thank you to the 2 refs; Eamonnca1 and GAAMOD on making the correct call and getting the poll activated. :D :D :D

With the abuse and lack of respect given by players and supporters currently, we, as an association, are having enough bother recruiting one referee for our games, let alone two.
For championship games in my own county, (and I assume it's similar everywhere else) the ref brings 4 of his own umpires and two neutral linesmen are provided. That's 7 separate sets of eyes. Apart from American football and tennis, is there another sport that has as many officials?