Hi everyone,
I'm investigating differences in Club Membership costs between Ladies and Men. Correct me if I'm wrong here but there are differences between Ladies GAA and Mens GAA organisations. I'm uncertain why there are two different organisations in the first place. Aren't we all the GAA?
Anyway that's a rant for a different time, what really interests me is the differences in Club Membership costs between Ladies and Men. Does this go on at all clubs? Does it raise an equality issue?
My own club whose name I'd rather not mention has following membership costs:
Girls:
U8 – U10 = £25 (5 times more than male)
U12 – U18 = £35 (7 times more than male)
Senior = £80 (over 2 times more than male)
Boys:
U8 – U18 = £5
Senior = £35
Ladies football and camogie are 2 seperate organisations, and neither of them are under the auspices of the GAA. You might as well query membership at soccer or basketball clubs.
I see these figures with regards to Ladies Football that have to be paid to Central Council - anyone know what the equivalent is for men?
QuoteFees payable to Central Council are as follows:
Adult Players:
Registration Fee: €15.00
Injury Fund Fee: €25.00
Development Fee: €1.00
Juvenile Players:
Registration Fee: €15.00
Injury Fund Fee: €10.00
Development Fee: €1.00
Under 10 Players:
Registration Fee: €5
Injury Fund Fee: €5
Development Fund Fee: €1
Development Fee shall be used for development and subsidies as approved by Central Council.
Cheers Gabriel I'd seen those myself but couldn't find corresponding ones for men.
AZOffally they may be different organizations (though I'm not sure why) but I'm guessing most GAA clubs now have ladies and men teams playing for them. I could be wrong.
Your ladies teams pay their membership to the ladies Gaelic football association and the cost of registering a team with them is much higher than it is to register a men's team with the GAA. So, while club A may have a senior men and ladies team, it is way more expensive to register your ladies team than your men's. Unless your club can afford to subsidise the ladies, then they're membership would have to be more.
Not sure on the kids though as you can play mixed gender teams in GAA tournaments up to U12.
The merger is very advanced at this stage and should be completed in the not too distant future. The camogie are on board but the LGFA are holding it up afaik. It will happen though.
All the ladies registration in Mayo goes to the Mayo Ladies County Board - or that's how it was last year anyway.
Quote from: bPreacher on May 21, 2014, 02:58:07 PM
Cheers Gabriel I'd seen those myself but couldn't find corresponding ones for men.
AZOffally they may be different organizations (though I'm not sure why) but I'm guessing most GAA clubs now have ladies and men teams playing for them. I could be wrong.
Preacher, different organisations therefore different clubs. Your GAA club does not have a ladies team. There is a sister club to look after the ladies. They may share the name, especially if they run joint events etc, but they are different clubs and therefore subject to different rules.
Thanks for all the replies guys.
I guess the sooner all GAA games come under the same banner the better for us all.
For any clubs that have ladies and men teams do you have any comparable costs for their own clubs for membership differences?
Quote from: bPreacher on May 22, 2014, 10:01:17 AM
Thanks for all the replies guys.
I guess the sooner all GAA games come under the same banner the better for us all.
For any clubs that have ladies and men teams do you have any comparable costs for their own clubs for membership differences?
Would I be right in thinking that your after a stick to beat your own club with if you can find a few examples where they do subsidise?
Every club has different funding models so unless you know that info I can't see you getting a proper perspective on why/how some clubs decide to subsidise and some don't
Not so much a stick rather some evidence of what other clubs are doing so that I can at least argue my point. I would like to hear examples of where other clubs subsidize the ladies.
I'm very proud of my club but on this point I cant see the rational of a girl paying 7 or 5 times more than their male counterpart.
I played for years, have managed several teams including ladies teams - I've watched ladies make tea, help out around the club and work on the committee. They play an invaluable part in the club - irrespective of funding models I believe every member should pay the same membership costs.
I wouldn't agree bPreacher. If the LGFA charge more to register a team than the GAA then I don't see why those ladies shouldn't pay for that. For example, lets say myself and my sister play for the same club, to register a ladies team costs €1250 so a panel of 25 girls would have to pay €50 each and to register a mens team costs €750 or €30 per man for a panel of 25. Now I don't think you can argue that instead it should be €40 for everyone because in essence the men are then paying the LGFA €10 each and I wouldn't see that as fair. The only reason the girls are paying more is because the LGFA haven't actually become a part of the GAA even though they depend on facilities they didn't pay for.
My post might come across as anti-LGFA but it isn't. I'm actively involved in developing ladies football in my club and county but having your cake and eating it isn't fair. In saying that, I'm not sure there is justification for such a big difference between membership costs.
Zulu I take you're point and I think the LGFA need to address this.
However I'd say in most clubs the mens senior team incurs the greatest cost to the club quite often significantly more than other teams. I understand and accept this for numerous reasons
If I use you're argument then I guess people who only support an underage team would say why is a disproportionate amount of the club sponsorship, lotto money or club fund raising money going to the senior team.
I can only speak for my own club but the membership money paid goes towards your own team's expenses and each team has to fundraise towards their own expenses. No money raised by our girls go toward the men's team and vice versa. To be fair, I doubt a ladies club would get the same level of sponsorship as the mens if they were to go look for separate sponsorships so I think there's justification for spending more on the men's team. Bottom line for me is that membership in clubs is (partly) related to what the GAA and LGFA charge to register a team. The LGFA charge more so ladies membership is more and that is entirely fair. If you want to discuss with your club how sponsorship money and fundraising cash is spent that is a different argument but I don't think you have much of an argument with the membership angle.
Been reading through these and there is a significant difference in reg fees - and this has to be one of the drivers / incentives to amalgamate the associations.
I come from a one club model and our strategy is to have all players pay the same amount - all players are encouraged / cajoled / persuaded to help in the various fund raising activity of the Club.
No difference in fees per player - everyone pays the same - one club model - therefore only one chequebook.
I can see where Ladies are separate can lead to differences in charges to players. Best solution to resolve this is for associations to amalgamate!! Understood this to be an aim of both GAA and LGFA.
I was always under the impression that the differences in fees all stemmed from insurance being much higher for girls to play? Maybe LGFA have higher premiums?
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2015, 09:42:20 AM
I was always under the impression that the differences in fees all stemmed from insurance being much higher for girls to play? Maybe LGFA have higher premiums?
As a smaller separate organisation I imagine they don't have the same clout for insurance premiums as the GAA as a whole. I don't understand why LGFA and Camogie are still separated from the GAA. What's the hold up? We all use the same facilities, LGFA and Camogie are all based out of the same County board offices and Croke Park surely bringing them together can't be that big of a problem!
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2015, 09:56:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2015, 09:42:20 AM
I was always under the impression that the differences in fees all stemmed from insurance being much higher for girls to play? Maybe LGFA have higher premiums?
As a smaller separate organisation I imagine they don't have the same clout for insurance premiums as the GAA as a whole. I don't understand why LGFA and Camogie are still separated from the GAA. What's the hold up? We all use the same facilities, LGFA and Camogie are all based out of the same County board offices and Croke Park surely bringing them together can't be that big of a problem!
because that makes too much sense! My experience of GAA at every level from club to national is that although they always eventually do the thing that makes most sense, they just take fcukin ages to do it!
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2015, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2015, 09:56:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2015, 09:42:20 AM
I was always under the impression that the differences in fees all stemmed from insurance being much higher for girls to play? Maybe LGFA have higher premiums?
As a smaller separate organisation I imagine they don't have the same clout for insurance premiums as the GAA as a whole. I don't understand why LGFA and Camogie are still separated from the GAA. What's the hold up? We all use the same facilities, LGFA and Camogie are all based out of the same County board offices and Croke Park surely bringing them together can't be that big of a problem!
because that makes too much sense! My experience of GAA at every level from club to national is that although they always eventually do the thing that makes most sense, they just take fcukin ages to do it!
Too democratic as an organization. A strength and weakness all mixed up in one.
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2015, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2015, 09:56:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2015, 09:42:20 AM
I was always under the impression that the differences in fees all stemmed from insurance being much higher for girls to play? Maybe LGFA have higher premiums?
As a smaller separate organisation I imagine they don't have the same clout for insurance premiums as the GAA as a whole. I don't understand why LGFA and Camogie are still separated from the GAA. What's the hold up? We all use the same facilities, LGFA and Camogie are all based out of the same County board offices and Croke Park surely bringing them together can't be that big of a problem!
because that makes too much sense! My experience of GAA at every level from club to national is that although they always eventually do the thing that makes most sense, they just take fcukin ages to do it!
Agreed - nothing moves fast when seems logical. LGFA register each individual player - as do camogie at individual injury insurance levels. GAA register a team without having to identify players, though all members registered separately - means boys can play football and hurling having been registered once, while girls fees are significantly higher and they need to be registered twice to allow them to play football and camogie.
Associations should amalgamate - and prioritise this. Would lead to a loss of power among the LGFA and Camogie boards, this may be a disincentive among the top brass in those associations, but potential savings and coordination of fixtures would vastly outweigh that!
It isn't the GAA holding this up as far as I know. At different times it's been the camogie or LGFA holding it up and I think it's the FGFA who are the main stumbling block now. The GAA definitely want this to happen.
The explanation for the difference in fees is quite simple and is as follows:
For mens & boys football a club pays their insurance depending on how many teams they have. Most clubs with teams at all grades and maybe hurling and football would have to pay around €4000. To register players and members with the GAA it costs €2 per member.
LGFA include the insurance charge in their registration fee and it used to work out at €30-€60 per player (probably higher now) I think, depending on their age. So each player you register has her insurance fee built into the cost.
I always argued that we should charge the same club membership fee for males and females and that he onus was on all to help raise the insurance money. Some people didn't get it and thought the girls should pay their registration fee even if it exceeded the club membership, which it usually did.