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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: BennyCake on May 07, 2014, 08:16:14 PM

Title: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 07, 2014, 08:16:14 PM
Anyone know the exact routes of the three stages, or where I could find them?

Which of the well-known cyclists are taking part?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: CD on May 07, 2014, 08:27:16 PM
http://www.nitb.com/BusinessSupport/2012-2014Events/GirodItalia2014.aspx (http://www.nitb.com/BusinessSupport/2012-2014Events/GirodItalia2014.aspx)

Detailed maps here of the Irish stages

and herehttp://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/giro-ditalia/giro-ditalia-2014-preview-122043 (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/giro-ditalia/giro-ditalia-2014-preview-122043) - including a preview of a few of the stars - don't recognise any of the names myself
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 07, 2014, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2014, 08:16:14 PM
Anyone know the exact routes of the three stages, or where I could find them?

Which of the well-known cyclists are taking part?
Armagh route goes out Loughgall Road, in again at Stonebridge, Richhill, Markethill, Tassagh, Keady, Newtownhamilton, Forkhill.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 07, 2014, 11:12:05 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 07, 2014, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2014, 08:16:14 PM
Anyone know the exact routes of the three stages, or where I could find them?

Which of the well-known cyclists are taking part?
Armagh route goes out Loughgall Road, in again at Stonebridge, Richhill, Markethill, Tassagh, Keady, Newtownhamilton, Forkhill.

Tony, that looks as though it's going through Loughgall village and out through Ballyhegan/Annahugh estates as well. Is that right?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 07, 2014, 11:27:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2014, 11:12:05 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 07, 2014, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2014, 08:16:14 PM
Anyone know the exact routes of the three stages, or where I could find them?

Which of the well-known cyclists are taking part?
Armagh route goes out Loughgall Road, in again at Stonebridge, Richhill, Markethill, Tassagh, Keady, Newtownhamilton, Forkhill.

Tony, that looks as though it's going through Loughgall village and out through Ballyhegan/Annahugh estates as well. Is that right?
Aye through Loughgall and then Red Lion Road, Kilmore Road and straight across Stonebridge Roundabout into Richhill.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 08, 2014, 05:13:33 AM
Jesus, that's close to home! Never thought I'd see such a high profile race on them roads!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 08, 2014, 09:12:26 AM
Was going to take the childer to W5 in Belfast this Saturday. Is the traffic likely to be much worse as a result of this in Belfast on Saturday? Don't fancy sitting half the day in traffic with our ones!!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: armaghniac on May 08, 2014, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 08, 2014, 09:12:26 AM
Was going to take the childer to W5 in Belfast this Saturday. Is the traffic likely to be much worse as a result of this in Belfast on Saturday? Don't fancy sitting half the day in traffic with our ones!!

Probably best to go in the middle of the day
http://trafficwatchni.com/giro/saturday-10th-may-stage-2

Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: CD on May 08, 2014, 08:33:50 PM
Did my 8mile run up around Stormont this evening and it's all systems go up there in preparation for tomorrow. Lots of entertainment and food sellers setting up - huge screens mounted on the way up to parliament buildings and plenty of vibrant pink on show on the Upper Newtownards Road. Also loads of cyclists out and about obviously inspired by the Giro. Usually very few on the Greenway but it was busy today!
Hoping to get out in Ballyhackamore to watch the practice sessions in the morning and then see the real thing in the evening! Looks set to be a great event. Hope the weather holds!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: JimStynes on May 08, 2014, 08:36:44 PM
I haven't heard too many people complain about the Giro to be fair. Which is strange for Norn Iron!
They have really went to town promoting it as well! Hope the tour comes here in a few years time on the back of this.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2014, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 08, 2014, 08:36:44 PM
I haven't heard too many people complain about the Giro to be fair. Which is strange for Norn Iron!
They have really went to town promoting it as well! Hope the tour comes here in a few years time on the back of this.

Weather to be shite but loads of people I know are gearing  :P up for it, plenty local pubs pulling out all stops for it, I'll be at my local (Bureau Bar) as it passes by it around 3.30pm. BBC coverage is at 2.00pm, thought they would have it from early on, maybe it's a red button job for full coverage
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 08, 2014, 08:59:46 PM
What's happening in Armagh on Sunday? I take it the race starts from the mall?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 08, 2014, 09:03:54 PM
Birds eye view of the finish line tomorrow for the time trail from the office. Day might be less than constructive ;D
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Apparently so on May 08, 2014, 09:43:59 PM
Cyclists are knobs. Get the f**k outta my road

Anyhoo, what if someone rings a bomb threat in on the route? Will they have to cancel it or whats the craic?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Maguire01 on May 08, 2014, 10:27:30 PM
Looking forward to it - hopefully the rain stays off. Still undecided about where to watch tomorrow - thinking outside Queen's.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Duckquay on May 08, 2014, 10:34:56 PM
Taking it in from outside Queens myself weather permitting.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 08, 2014, 11:43:43 PM
(http://www.breakingnews.ie/media/images/n/NicolasRocheGiroLaunchBelfastMay82014PA_large.jpg)

Nicolas Roche said he was left proud but almost speechless by the welcome he received at the opening of the Giro D'Italia in Belfast.
His father Stephen Roche won the Giro 27 years ago and his protege could triumph in the sport's second most important event after the Tour de France.
Roche rode his bike carefully up the pink carpet behind his team mates on to the open air stage and lifted an arm to acknowledge the warmest of welcomes from tightly-packed supporters in the shadow of Belfast City Hall.
He said: "I am so happy and so proud to be here among you guys."
The Giro's three-day Big Start is being held in Ireland this year, it is traditional to take this showcase of Italian flair and style to another country.
He was only part of a ceremonial parade of some of the greatest names in the sport – but arguably the greatest crowd pleaser.
Roche added: "Thanks everyone for being here tonight, I am speechless."
Sharing the stage was the glittering golden prize, a column of spirals in the shape of a tornado with the names of every winner etched on it. Roche has played down his chances of being added to that illustrious list.
Roche said: "It is just unreal...I am so happy that they let me ride the Tour of Italy."
A Babel's Tower of lycra-clad talent processed on to the stage, the favourites hailing from countries as diverse as Australia and Colombia.
The Colombians wore sunglasses as an unnecessary precaution against sunshine, skies were leaden, but their spirits were high nonetheless, throwing their baseball caps to the crowd as they followed their yellow, blue and red flag into the venue.
Team Sky from Britain also received some of the loudest applause, although much of their talent is keeping powder dry for the Tour de France.
Philip Deignan from the outfit said: "I never thought I would see the day when I would be able to start the race in my own country so it is amazing."
The four jerseys up for grabs, pink for the leader, red for the competitor with best points classification, blue for the top climber and white for the most promising young rider, were paraded by models catwalk style.
Pink confetti and balloons filled the sky as the event was declared open before a crowd of many hundreds. Opera-style Italian music filled the air. Stunt riders on low-slung bicycles performed tricks while outside the grounds of the city hall many spectators rested on their pedals as they watched the ceremony.
Groups of pink shirt-clad cyclists have descended on the city from all parts while some fans wore the shirts of their favourite riders.
Buildings across Belfast are to be lit up in the rosy hue and even cocktails bear the name Maglia Rosa, the jersey worn by the lead rider.
Tonight's opening event will be a time trial setting off from the docks where the Titanic was launched and including the regional parliament at Stormont.
Tomorrow the action takes in the dramatic North Coast before the elite cyclists depart from Ireland's ecclesiastical capital, Armagh, on Sunday for Dublin.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: gerry on May 08, 2014, 11:50:21 PM
all set for tomorrow

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnHasxfCEAAAnTF.jpg)
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: ONeill on May 09, 2014, 12:01:14 AM
Quote from: gerry on May 08, 2014, 11:50:21 PM
all set for tomorrow

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnHasxfCEAAAnTF.jpg)

Haha!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 09, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
Quote from: gerry on May 08, 2014, 11:50:21 PM
all set for tomorrow

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnHasxfCEAAAnTF.jpg)

You forgot "Careful Now".
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on May 09, 2014, 06:56:20 PM
I see Stormont is flying the Union Jack and the European flag. Obviously the Italian flag was a bit too close for comfort
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Sheedy on May 09, 2014, 07:57:08 PM
dan martin out of the race with a suspected broken collarbone after coming off his bike in a crash during the team time trial.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Aristo 60 on May 09, 2014, 08:36:53 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 09, 2014, 07:57:08 PM
dan martin out of the race with a suspected broken collarbone after coming off his bike in a crash during the team time trial.


Psni were quickly on the scene and confirmed he was not wearing a seat belt, had no tax or insurance. Plus airbags didn't go off.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 09:11:08 PM
On Black Mountain for all the visitors to see

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnL6z6AIIAAdrkK.jpg)
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 09, 2014, 10:00:49 PM
How many cans of shaving foam did that take?!!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: JimStynes on May 09, 2014, 11:17:28 PM
Thought that was brilliant tonight there. Loads of pics with the riders and even got one with that big bollox Martin Johnson.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Pangurban on May 10, 2014, 03:07:21 AM
All a big corporate wheeze
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Babe Ruth 47 on May 10, 2014, 09:01:27 AM
What does the above mean?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: CD on May 10, 2014, 09:09:45 AM
Watched the practice sessions yesterday morning and went out again on the Newtownards Rd last night - great atmosphere on both occasions and loads of families which was great to see. Nice to see the roads closed for something positive for a change!!

Was struck by the speed and how much faster they were going from the afternoon session. The loop from Ballyhack to Stormont and back took roughly 8 mins 20secs - about 6.5km I think!

Amazing event - didn't quite appreciate the enormity of it until I saw it myself!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 10, 2014, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 09:11:08 PM
On Black Mountain for all the visitors to see

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnL6z6AIIAAdrkK.jpg)

Basically it means 'here ends British rule' or the British don't rule here.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Over the Bar on May 10, 2014, 11:09:22 AM
It means End British Domination
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 10, 2014, 12:43:40 PM
Was anyone at the starting point in Belfast? It seemed to be very crowded. Would kids be able to see much in that environment? Was thinking of just watching it in one of the towns or villages along the route, but it'll be past us in a flash. Not sure what to do.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Kid Twist on May 10, 2014, 01:00:05 PM
Find somewhere on the route where there is a climb
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 10, 2014, 02:42:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 09, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
Quote from: gerry on May 08, 2014, 11:50:21 PM
all set for tomorrow

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnHasxfCEAAAnTF.jpg)

You forgot "Careful Now".

(http://i.imgur.com/SoahvYUl.jpg)
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Hardy on May 10, 2014, 02:48:35 PM
This is to tourism what that bomb was to Hiroshima.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Hardy on May 10, 2014, 02:49:55 PM
Who are those wankers commentating? They make Morrissey/Carney sound competent and interesting.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Minder on May 10, 2014, 02:51:19 PM
Eurosport commentators getting their towns and villages mixed up  ;)
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Hardy on May 10, 2014, 02:58:55 PM
Ah, it's on Eurosport too. I was watching BBC - two tossers who sound like Radio One DJs only without the in-depth knowledge and gravitas.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: thejuice on May 10, 2014, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 10, 2014, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 09:11:08 PM
On Black Mountain for all the visitors to see

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnL6z6AIIAAdrkK.jpg)

Basically it means 'here ends British rule' or the British don't rule here.

those are some well trained sheep
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: CD on May 10, 2014, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 10, 2014, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 10, 2014, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 09, 2014, 09:11:08 PM
On Black Mountain for all the visitors to see

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnL6z6AIIAAdrkK.jpg)

Basically it means 'here ends British rule' or the British don't rule here.

those are some well trained sheep

You don't know how right you are!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Hardy on May 10, 2014, 05:01:57 PM
Juice -  ;D


CD -  ;D
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Maguire01 on May 10, 2014, 06:12:21 PM
Great atmosphere in Belfast yesterday and today. Contemplating heading down to Armagh in the morning - any tips on where to watch in in Armagh or out in the country? Any climbing on the route?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Minder on May 10, 2014, 07:27:34 PM
Pity the weather wasn't better on the north coast - we could have seen it in all it's glory.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Orior on May 10, 2014, 08:15:10 PM
Great craic in Belfast last night. It was amazing getting so close to the cyclists, and they were all willing to pose for photos.

I saw the race today outside Jordanstown. The 'whoosh' of the peloton was amazing.

By the way, at least the Black Mountain showed a little intelligence. Not so the knuckle draggers from Rathcoole.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: JimStynes on May 10, 2014, 08:52:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 10, 2014, 08:15:10 PM
Great craic in Belfast last night. It was amazing getting so close to the cyclists, and they were all willing to pose for photos.

I saw the race today outside Jordanstown. The 'whoosh' of the peloton was amazing.

By the way, at least the Black Mountain showed a little intelligence. Not so the knuckle draggers from Rathcoole.

What happened?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Minder on May 10, 2014, 09:05:31 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 10, 2014, 08:52:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 10, 2014, 08:15:10 PM
Great craic in Belfast last night. It was amazing getting so close to the cyclists, and they were all willing to pose for photos.

I saw the race today outside Jordanstown. The 'whoosh' of the peloton was amazing.

By the way, at least the Black Mountain showed a little intelligence. Not so the knuckle draggers from Rathcoole.

What happened?

Can't post photos on my phone but I saw this earlier, Mount Vernons finest -

http://t.co/10owFPtpdL
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on May 10, 2014, 09:23:59 PM
Drove from Markethill to Keady and on to Newtownhamilton this evening. Markethill bedecked with what looked like very recently erected Union and NI flags
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: orangeman on May 10, 2014, 09:29:40 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on May 10, 2014, 09:23:59 PM
Drove from Markethill to Keady and on to Newtownhamilton this evening. Markethill bedecked with what looked like very recently erected Union and NI flags

Sounds like a Willie or two was out.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 10, 2014, 09:41:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 10, 2014, 06:12:21 PM
Great atmosphere in Belfast yesterday and today. Contemplating heading down to Armagh in the morning - any tips on where to watch in in Armagh or out in the country? Any climbing on the route?
Undecided myself. I am heading in to Armagh in the morning for a dander around the paddock and watch the start then head out somewhere.

Keady up to Fews Forest is probably the main climb.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on May 10, 2014, 09:45:54 PM
A couple of camper vans already parked up on that section
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: bennydorano on May 10, 2014, 09:56:03 PM
Few flegs stuck up round the mall in Armagh in the last day or so, cretins.

Seems to be a right few heading up to 'Keady Mountain' tomorrow, Armagh's own Alp D'huez. It's a tame enough climb, I can go up it on the big ring, them boys will hardly break sweat.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 10, 2014, 10:13:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 10, 2014, 09:56:03 PM
Few flegs stuck up round the mall in Armagh in the last day or so, cretins.

Seems to be a right few heading up to 'Keady Mountain' tomorrow, Armagh's own Alp D'huez. It's a tame enough climb, I can go up it on the big ring, them boys will hardly break sweat.
Any suggestions for time and approaches as I believe those roads are closing at 9.30 but race no reaching there til after 12.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: theskull1 on May 10, 2014, 10:28:07 PM
Google for it Tony. Theres a pdf giving expected times at various points on the route
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Harold Disgracey on May 10, 2014, 10:29:27 PM
The breague would be a good spot to watch it alright. Agree Markethill an embarrassment compared to Hamiltonsbawn, Richhill & even Keady.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 10, 2014, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 10, 2014, 10:28:07 PM
Google for it Tony. Theres a pdf giving expected times at various points on the route
Fcuk up you!  ;)

I have it all in front of me but I was looking for some local knowledge on the best side road to get me there and parked up when the main route is closed.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 10, 2014, 10:41:09 PM
I hear Union flegs were put up the other night while coppers sat watching them. That's what they get for bringing the race to the likes of Carrickfergus. Is Keady the only catholic town that the Giro goes through? What was wrong with taking it through Crossmaglen or even Newry?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Minder on May 10, 2014, 10:41:31 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 10, 2014, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 10, 2014, 10:28:07 PM
Google for it Tony. Theres a pdf giving expected times at various points on the route
Fcuk up you!  ;)

I have it all in front of me but I was looking for some local knowledge on the best side road to get me there and parked up when the main route is closed.

Aye sure we will clean your arse for you too.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Maguire01 on May 10, 2014, 10:45:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 10, 2014, 10:41:09 PM
I hear Union flegs were put up the other night while coppers sat watching them. That's what they get for bringing the race to the likes of Carrickfergus. Is Keady the only catholic town that the Giro goes through? What was wrong with taking it through Crossmaglen or even Newry?
Not that it should really matter... but today - Ballycastle, Glenarm, Cushendall...
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Apparently so on May 10, 2014, 10:52:36 PM
Glenarm isn't seen as catholic. Carnlough would be though which is just round the corner

Aye, heard they put the flags up right across from the police station in Carrick in broad daylight while those useless bastards just sat and watched them. Surprised they never helped put them up tbh

But sure, f**k it. Seems to have went very well this bike race. Pity about the weather. But you just know every arsehole will be out on a bike now f**king being a hazard on the road
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 10, 2014, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 10, 2014, 10:45:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 10, 2014, 10:41:09 PM
I hear Union flegs were put up the other night while coppers sat watching them. That's what they get for bringing the race to the likes of Carrickfergus. Is Keady the only catholic town that the Giro goes through? What was wrong with taking it through Crossmaglen or even Newry?
Not that it should really matter... but today - Ballycastle, Glenarm, Cushendall...
Glenariffe, Cushendun, Carnlough... Pretty much the entire route from Ballintoy to Glenarm.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on May 10, 2014, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 10, 2014, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 10, 2014, 10:28:07 PM
Google for it Tony. Theres a pdf giving expected times at various points on the route
Fcuk up you!  ;)

I have it all in front of me but I was looking for some local knowledge on the best side road to get me there and parked up when the main route is closed.
Keady looks fantastic. Big effort put in obviously by all the locals
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Maguire01 on May 10, 2014, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: Apparently so on May 10, 2014, 10:52:36 PM
Glenarm isn't seen as catholic. Carnlough would be though which is just round the corner
57% Catholic in the 2001 census. Again, not that it matters.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 10, 2014, 11:16:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 10, 2014, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: Apparently so on May 10, 2014, 10:52:36 PM
Glenarm isn't seen as catholic. Carnlough would be though which is just round the corner
57% Catholic in the 2001 census. Again, not that it matters.
Not that matters but you are both right. Majority that 43% have decided to mark their territory so someone driving through would think it is a loyalist hole.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Minder on May 10, 2014, 11:30:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 10, 2014, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: Apparently so on May 10, 2014, 10:52:36 PM
Glenarm isn't seen as catholic. Carnlough would be though which is just round the corner
57% Catholic in the 2001 census. Again, not that it matters.

I would say quite a few of the Catholics don't live in the village, they have had their GAA changing rooms burnt down before if memory serves me right.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 11, 2014, 01:48:46 PM
Was anyone in Armagh this morning? I managed to catch it out the road a bit, as I wasn't sure how much I'd see with the expected crowds at the starting line.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Throw ball on May 11, 2014, 02:11:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 11, 2014, 01:48:46 PM
Was anyone in Armagh this morning? I managed to catch it out the road a bit, as I wasn't sure how much I'd see with the expected crowds at the starting line.

Fair crowd there ok. Got to catch a number of the teams introduced to the crowd at Shambles yard  and catch a bit of racing too. Pity the rain spoiled the concert last night though.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 11, 2014, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 11, 2014, 01:48:46 PM
Was anyone in Armagh this morning? I managed to catch it out the road a bit, as I wasn't sure how much I'd see with the expected crowds at the starting line.
Decent crowds all through Armagh this morning. Managed to snatch a wee photo of Cadel on his way out Lonsdale Road.

(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/TonyBaloney1/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-05-11-13-52-51.png) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/TonyBaloney1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-05-11-13-52-51.png.html)
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Harold Disgracey on May 11, 2014, 02:49:40 PM
There was a great crowd out to watch it going through Keady. The peloton is some sight in full flow.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2014, 03:18:54 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on May 11, 2014, 02:49:40 PM
There was a great crowd out to watch it going through Keady. The peloton is some sight in full flow.

Went down to watch it at Jordanstown and as the peloton came through it was like a swarm of bees, watching it on telly doesn't  do it justice, the speed of those lads coming through was unreal, thewind that came behind it was something else. Fair play to the organisers who took the Giro to Ireland
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2014, 03:34:16 PM
What a crash!! Madness
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 11, 2014, 03:39:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2014, 03:34:16 PM
What a crash!! Madness
I have seen marshalls in other races signalling a split in the peloton at similar roundabouts. Useless southen bastards  ;)
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 11, 2014, 03:43:25 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1797503_10203536303866007_7391720425177097195_n.jpg)

The Giro heading south at the Green Gates.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: 5 Sams on May 11, 2014, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 11, 2014, 03:39:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2014, 03:34:16 PM
What a crash!! Madness
I have seen marshalls in other races signalling a split in the peloton at similar roundabouts. Useless southen b**tards  ;)

You're right. It happened at every traffic island on the way into Belfast yesterday.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tubberman on May 11, 2014, 04:19:49 PM
Only tuned in for the last 15 mins, that was some finish!
The tight turns over the bridge was great viewing too
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: 5 Sams on May 11, 2014, 04:23:06 PM
Haven't watched any amount of cycling since 1987 but I have watched the last two days and found it fascinating. Great coverage by Eurosport.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: armaghniac on May 11, 2014, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on May 11, 2014, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 11, 2014, 03:39:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2014, 03:34:16 PM
What a crash!! Madness
I have seen marshalls in other races signalling a split in the peloton at similar roundabouts. Useless southen b**tards  ;)

You're right. It happened at every traffic island on the way into Belfast yesterday.

I wouldn't have thought that this was a decision to be made by local marshals,  I would imagine that the organisers would have certain engineering principles for curves, widths etc and would survey the entire course and instruct the marshals accordingly.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 11, 2014, 06:10:57 PM
The commentators on Eurosport were saying that it was quite bizarre that there were no marshals on the islands as there were so many of them!? Up to the Giro themselves.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: bennydorano on May 11, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
Some crowds milling about Armagh, had to be 10k+.

Got a bucketload of photos, someone stood in front of me & ruined my Cadel & Quintana photos as they left the mall area. Milling around the paddock area was brilliant, better than seeing them ceremonially whizz past. Class day. Kudos all round to the NITB, Darach McQuaid & co and even the Stormont gobshites.

TDF would be nice now :D i predict it's arrival for 2020!

Kittel's win was something else, thought he was done for & Swift had it
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: orangeman on May 11, 2014, 08:37:12 PM
The German can sprint. He won it by a wheel on the line and such was the speed that he had built up going over the line he must have been 10 bike lengths ahead 50 yards past the line.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 11, 2014, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
Some crowds milling about Armagh, had to be 10k+.

Got a bucketload of photos, someone stood in front of me & ruined my Cadel & Quintana photos as they left the mall area. Milling around the paddock area was brilliant, better than seeing them ceremonially whizz past. Class day. Kudos all round to the NITB, Darach McQuaid & co and even the Stormont gobshites.

TDF would be nice now :D i predict it's arrival for 2020!

Kittel's win was something else, thought he was done for & Swift had it
Aye it was good in Armagh. I went to the Shambles for a while and the Mall and then watched them zip out of Armagh outside the Tech. Got a few photos of Cadel and Kittel etc. Few heavy showers but blew over pretty quickly. Didn't bother head out to Keady etc. as I knew they would zip past in seconds.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: JimStynes on May 11, 2014, 09:06:04 PM
It's been absolutely brilliant this past few weeks. Hope they see this as a success and bring the tour here at some stage.

We've been learning about it in school this past two weeks. One wee lad asked me why does Usain Bolt not race in it, as he thought that the sprinters got off their bikes and sprinted to the line like they do in the olympics. Another asked how do they carry their bikes when they are climbing up the mountains. They were 100% serious as well.

The commentators on BBC were absolutely shite by the way. I can't stand your man Cartlon Kirby, he just seems to wing it and constantly get names wrong throughout the whole day. I was hoping for your man Liggett from eurosport.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: bennydorano on May 11, 2014, 09:41:44 PM
Kirby seems to be the Eurosport#1 nowadays since David Harmon pulled the pin. Irishman Declan Quigley is very good. Not sure who Liggett works for, he's the voice of ITV2, but he'll probably be the voice of the Tour of California on Eurosport tonight. Must all be subbying!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on May 11, 2014, 09:45:35 PM
This morning was a truly unreal experience in Armagh, the people came out in force, i havent a clue how to predict crowds but id go at 20k or so. Shame the the town got little or no coverage on the telly this evening, the waxing lyrical that went on about Belfast the 2 previous days i thought 'Armagh' itself would have got more than a mere mention. (btw i could be wrong and missed a promo) Mark Simpson on Newsline was amazed by the 2000 in Richhill today, if he'd bothered heading on into town it would have been great viewing. When in the Shambles in early morning and then watching it pass me at ogle street, I was struck by the sheer size of the event i.e police/stewards/team cars etc and the organisation that must go into and event like this. What did come into my head was, How the feck do the make any money? The tour would be amazing but id say a different town would get the nod.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: imtommygunn on May 11, 2014, 09:48:19 PM
The atmosphere in belfast was fantastic for this. Best i've seen for any event of any description up here. Really hope something like the tour de france can come here too. I think it will do wonders for tourism on the whole.

As has been said bbc commentary was awful. Nobody who says umm so much should be allowed near a microphone!

Events like the belfast marathon should be like this and sounds like a tour of ireland sounds like it's happening.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 11, 2014, 09:52:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 11, 2014, 09:48:19 PM
The atmosphere in belfast was fantastic for this. Best i've seen for any event of any description up here. Really hope something like the tour de france can come here too. I think it will do wonders for tourism on the whole.

As has been said bbc commentary was awful. Nobody who says umm so much should be allowed near a microphone!

Events like the belfast marathon should be like this and sounds like a tour of ireland sounds like it's happening.
Jeez lads youse are very sore on our very own festival of colour every July  ;D Sure it's like the Giro and Tour every year!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: imtommygunn on May 11, 2014, 09:55:06 PM
Ha - sure they're almost the same except the giro boys clean up after themselves...
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 11, 2014, 09:59:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 11, 2014, 09:55:06 PM
Ha - sure they're almost the same except the giro boys clean up after themselves...
Certainly less pissing in doorways and sectarian intimidation than "Orangefest".
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2014, 02:53:47 AM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on May 11, 2014, 09:45:35 PM
What did come into my head was, How the feck do the make any money?

Sponsorship and sale of broadcasting rights. 
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: gerry on May 12, 2014, 07:43:45 AM
Giro d'Italia crash stage 3 2014. As the peloton enters the village of Lusk at a roundabout, the road narrows, which funnels the cyclists through a very narrow strait. One cyclist from Astana team collapses causing a massive pile-up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqy_K_z9dJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqy_K_z9dJ4)
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Keyser soze on May 12, 2014, 11:09:50 AM
Yes the commentators on BBC were absolutely useless, pointless drivel, unable to pronounce any of the place names and struggled with a few riders names too. The guys who used to do TDF on C4 coulda showed them a thing or two, really used to love listening to them.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Orior on May 12, 2014, 11:22:52 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 12, 2014, 11:09:50 AM
Yes the commentators on BBC were absolutely useless, pointless drivel, unable to pronounce any of the place names and struggled with a few riders names too. The guys who used to do TDF on C4 coulda showed them a thing or two, really used to love listening to them.

Thats possibly because Ireland is a different country from Britain. Thankfully the race didnt go through Belvoir, or the Cregagh
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Canalman on May 12, 2014, 12:49:05 PM
Can't see them in a rush to come back with the drenching they got the last few days. Beautiful sunshine today though.

Have to say Ireland looked a tad grotty in the tv coverage I saw anyway. Even Skerries (a real nice place imo) didn't look great. Sunshine would probably have helped.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 12, 2014, 01:49:53 PM
Quote from: Canalman on May 12, 2014, 12:49:05 PM
Can't see them in a rush to come back with the drenching they got the last few days. Beautiful sunshine today though.

Have to say Ireland looked a tad grotty in the tv coverage I saw anyway. Even Skerries (a real nice place imo) didn't look great. Sunshine would probably have helped.
Aye, although it was great to see on the ground and good in general, the weather really destroyed large parts of the tourist board drive to promote the area. The Causeway Coast and Glens part was literally and figuratively a washout. Glenariffe was covered in low cloud so you wouldn't even know the glen was there and it looked like anywhere. The one saving grace with the weather was that Cushendall folk had to keep their hoods up so the viewers didn't have to look at them.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 12, 2014, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 12, 2014, 01:49:53 PM
Quote from: Canalman on May 12, 2014, 12:49:05 PM
Can't see them in a rush to come back with the drenching they got the last few days. Beautiful sunshine today though.

Have to say Ireland looked a tad grotty in the tv coverage I saw anyway. Even Skerries (a real nice place imo) didn't look great. Sunshine would probably have helped.
Aye, although it was great to see on the ground and good in general, the weather really destroyed large parts of the tourist board drive to promote the area. The Causeway Coast and Glens part was literally and figuratively a washout. Glenariffe was covered in low cloud so you wouldn't even know the glen was there and it looked like anywhere. The one saving grace with the weather was that Cushendall folk had to keep their hoods up so the viewers didn't have to look at them.

Youse boys are some craic  ;D
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: AQMP on May 12, 2014, 03:30:53 PM
Quote from: Canalman on May 12, 2014, 12:49:05 PM
Can't see them in a rush to come back with the drenching they got the last few days. Beautiful sunshine today though.

Have to say Ireland looked a tad grotty in the tv coverage I saw anyway. Even Skerries (a real nice place imo) didn't look great. Sunshine would probably have helped.

At least it didn't snow!!

Nibali wins stage of Giro in May blizzard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBh9c_PXkVQ

Giro stage cancelled due to snow:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/22652522
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Keyser soze on May 12, 2014, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 12, 2014, 11:22:52 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 12, 2014, 11:09:50 AM
Yes the commentators on BBC were absolutely useless, pointless drivel, unable to pronounce any of the place names and struggled with a few riders names too. The guys who used to do TDF on C4 coulda showed them a thing or two, really used to love listening to them.

Thats possibly because Ireland is a different country from Britain. Thankfully the race didnt go through Belvoir, or the Cregagh

Heh? I was aware of that! But the Giro or TDF arent based in Britain either as far as I know, I wouldnt think theyd be much use at pronouncing french or italian place names either. If it hadnt been raining they'd have had nothing to talk about at all.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 12, 2014, 07:55:54 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 12, 2014, 11:22:52 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 12, 2014, 11:09:50 AM
Yes the commentators on BBC were absolutely useless, pointless drivel, unable to pronounce any of the place names and struggled with a few riders names too. The guys who used to do TDF on C4 coulda showed them a thing or two, really used to love listening to them.

Thats possibly because Ireland is a different country from Britain. Thankfully the race didnt go through Belvoir, or the Cregagh

No excuse. Phil Ligget (English) and Paul Sherwen (English) have no trouble getting their tongues around the names of any riders or places that races go through.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: JimStynes on May 12, 2014, 10:15:31 PM
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/huge-bomb-found-as-giro-ditalia-party-hits-town-30265425.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/huge-bomb-found-as-giro-ditalia-party-hits-town-30265425.html)
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: michaelg on May 12, 2014, 10:24:02 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 12, 2014, 01:49:53 PM
Quote from: Canalman on May 12, 2014, 12:49:05 PM
Can't see them in a rush to come back with the drenching they got the last few days. Beautiful sunshine today though.

Have to say Ireland looked a tad grotty in the tv coverage I saw anyway. Even Skerries (a real nice place imo) didn't look great. Sunshine would probably have helped.
Aye, although it was great to see on the ground and good in general, the weather really destroyed large parts of the tourist board drive to promote the area. The Causeway Coast and Glens part was literally and figuratively a washout. Glenariffe was covered in low cloud so you wouldn't even know the glen was there and it looked like anywhere. The one saving grace with the weather was that Cushendall folk had to keep their hoods up so the viewers didn't have to look at them.
I disagree.  I thought the countryside looked well.  If I came from the sun scorched Med, the green fields would look appealing I think.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: haranguerer on May 13, 2014, 07:52:10 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 12, 2014, 10:15:31 PM
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/huge-bomb-found-as-giro-ditalia-party-hits-town-30265425.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/huge-bomb-found-as-giro-ditalia-party-hits-town-30265425.html)

What an absolute rag.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: AZOffaly on May 13, 2014, 08:51:49 AM
Why is it a rag in this case? (I know it's a rag). Have they made something up?
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: haranguerer on May 13, 2014, 10:02:50 AM
Implying it was to be aimed at the Giro. Inventing sh*t to sell papers. Just the usual sensational gutter sh**e

'While the intended target remained unclear, the bomb was seized just hours before the culmination of the high profile Giro d'Italia.'

Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: armaghniac on May 13, 2014, 10:15:27 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 13, 2014, 10:02:50 AM
Implying it was to be aimed at the Giro. Inventing sh*t to sell papers. Just the usual sensational gutter sh**e

'While the intended target remained unclear, the bomb was seized just hours before the culmination of the high profile Giro d'Italia.'

It stated that it was concurrent with the Giro, which is surely something that everyone noted, including the Italian media. By Indo standards this is a straight up article.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: johnneycool on May 13, 2014, 11:01:40 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 12, 2014, 01:49:53 PM
Quote from: Canalman on May 12, 2014, 12:49:05 PM
Can't see them in a rush to come back with the drenching they got the last few days. Beautiful sunshine today though.

Have to say Ireland looked a tad grotty in the tv coverage I saw anyway. Even Skerries (a real nice place imo) didn't look great. Sunshine would probably have helped.
Aye, although it was great to see on the ground and good in general, the weather really destroyed large parts of the tourist board drive to promote the area. The Causeway Coast and Glens part was literally and figuratively a washout. Glenariffe was covered in low cloud so you wouldn't even know the glen was there and it looked like anywhere. The one saving grace with the weather was that Cushendall folk had to keep their hoods up so the viewers didn't have to look at them.

Sure its always pishing up in the glens whilst the lovely Ards peninsula was basking in sunshine on Saturday!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: haranguerer on May 13, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 13, 2014, 10:15:27 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 13, 2014, 10:02:50 AM
Implying it was to be aimed at the Giro. Inventing sh*t to sell papers. Just the usual sensational gutter sh**e

'While the intended target remained unclear, the bomb was seized just hours before the culmination of the high profile Giro d'Italia.'

It stated that it was concurrent with the Giro, which is surely something that everyone noted, including the Italian media. By Indo standards this is a straight up article.

No, its not. If that was all they were noting, the above would have been two separate sentences. When you put speculation about the target in the same sentence as a completely unrelated event, you're clearly attempting to link the two.

If they merely wanted to make the (very valid) point about the wilful negligence and risk of damage to giro spectators, given that that event was occurring at this time, you include that in the article by all means, but not in a sentence about the target, nor in the headline in the way they have portrayed it.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: CD on May 13, 2014, 06:48:26 PM
Was chatting to a sports journalist today who says the Italian organisers, while being delighted with the huge crowds and enthusiasm of the general public, had an issue with poor road surfaces and with manhole covers to which they attributed five serious injuries including a broken hip! (Ouch) He also said the terrible weather resulted in constant complaints from cyclists and teams although given that they're going to cycle over the Alps I find this hard enough to credit!
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: BennyCake on May 13, 2014, 07:11:15 PM
It's a good job they didn't go through Cavan then.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 13, 2014, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: CD on May 13, 2014, 06:48:26 PM
Was chatting to a sports journalist today who says the Italian organisers, while being delighted with the huge crowds and enthusiasm of the general public, had an issue with poor road surfaces and with manhole covers to which they attributed five serious injuries including a broken hip! (Ouch) He also said the terrible weather resulted in constant complaints from cyclists and teams although given that they're going to cycle over the Alps I find this hard enough to credit!
There were a lot of complaints about the constant showers as they were getting soaked and dried out and replacing gear wheras in "typical" bad weather they can gear up. Apparently the repetitive soakings will leave them susceptible to chest infections etc.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: 5 Sams on May 13, 2014, 08:07:13 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 13, 2014, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: CD on May 13, 2014, 06:48:26 PM
Was chatting to a sports journalist today who says the Italian organisers, while being delighted with the huge crowds and enthusiasm of the general public, had an issue with poor road surfaces and with manhole covers to which they attributed five serious injuries including a broken hip! (Ouch) He also said the terrible weather resulted in constant complaints from cyclists and teams although given that they're going to cycle over the Alps I find this hard enough to credit!
There were a lot of complaints about the constant showers as they were getting soaked and dried out and replacing gear wheras in "typical" bad weather they can gear up. Apparently the repetitive soakings will leave them susceptible to chest infections etc.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/giro-d-italia/giro-ditalia-belfast-and-dublin-stage-winner-marcel-kittel-bows-out-of-race-due-to-fever-30270205.html
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: armaghniac on May 13, 2014, 08:55:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 13, 2014, 08:39:36 PM
Well then f... off and don't come back, ye whinging shower of b.......

Not the first people not to return to Our Wee Country because of the different showers they encountered there.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: bennydorano on May 13, 2014, 09:49:34 PM
Carnage at the end of today's flat stage, caused by rain funnily enough. Full stage was neutralised by the peleton because of safety fears over the weather, they didn't race until the last lap of today's short stage.
Title: Re: Giro d'Italia in Ireland 2014
Post by: Rois on May 13, 2014, 10:51:33 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 13, 2014, 08:39:36 PM
Well then f... off and don't come back, ye whinging shower of b.......
I'd be of the same view myself if that's really the truth.