When Rugby players do a line-out, nowadays they have a body to get in there and help them jump up higher. Up he goes, and the man behind grabs him and lifts him up higher.
How come this has never been adopted in Gaelic football? Is it because in the heat of the moment when a kick-out is coming in there's no time to get in position and get such a thing set up? Hard enough for one man to get in position never mind two? If that's the case then how come there always seems to be at least three or four players gathered up around the spot where the ball lands? Would there be too much jostling going on to let it happen?
It would take some timing to get into the position to assist a jumper to catch a kick out, plus it would be quite dangerous for the lifter as others come clattering in from a running start.
What about using it under your own crossbar? Making a catch above the crossbar would be impressive, a la Darragh O'Se against Limerick some years ago.
Future use would involve launching the light corner forward up. Could get him up to 12 feet I bet. Timing would be easier there than out the field.
What rule says this is illegal? One would think Eamonn would know the answer, rather than ask the question, with him being an administration expert of the GAA and thereby familiar with all the rules of our games.
Then again, what rule exists to prevent a player climbing/being hoisted onto the crossbar and standing/sitting there when a long-range free coming in?
Quote from: Ball Hopper on March 24, 2014, 07:04:48 AM
Then again, what rule exists to prevent a player climbing/being hoisted onto the crossbar and standing/sitting there when a long-range free coming in?
That made me laugh. ;D
This whole thread makes me laugh
It's impractical, pointless and illegal for starters. Now the real conundrum is why Eamonn is asking rather silly questions about football all of a sudden? It's like he's an American who's just come across the game and not an Irish man living in America who is heavily involved in the administration of GAA.
Quote from: Zulu on March 24, 2014, 09:12:55 AM
It's impractical, pointless and illegal for starters.
Illegal under which rule?
What if you played a really small lad midfield that you could fire a good 10 foot into the air?
After 10 seconds thinking about it, you really have to wonder why this thread was started....apart from the potential for hilarity
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2014, 06:08:39 AM
When Rugby players do a line-out, nowadays they have a body to get in there and help them jump up higher. Up he goes, and the man behind grabs him and lifts him up higher.
How come this has never been adopted in Gaelic football? Is it because in the heat of the moment when a kick-out is coming in there's no time to get in position and get such a thing set up? Hard enough for one man to get in position never mind two? If that's the case then how come there always seems to be at least three or four players gathered up around the spot where the ball lands? Would there be too much jostling going on to let it happen?
Assuming you're serious, there are fairly substantial differences between a rugby set play where opposition players have to be a metre apart and cannot touch you in the air. In football, contact in air is common, the opponent can stand where he likes, the ball is coming from 40 yards away so it's unlikely it's going to land exactly on top of the jumper, unlike a 4 metre throw. There's no way you could set up in that manner. The reason there are people around the ball when it lands is because it travels to get there, and people run towards the breaking ball. In rugby they are already there.
Sorry, I know.
Lets be honest lads, we've all thought of the 'standing on the crossbar' idea at some stage.
I've often idly speculated about it myself just for gas. It looks so spectacular in rugby. But of course it's unworkable for the reasons AZOffaly points out.
What remains, though, since there's no rule that bans it, is the question of what happens when it's tried for the first time, as could quite easily happen.
All-Ireland Final 2014. The teams are level. Last kick of the game is a 45. Mickey Newman's kick is accurate and is going to sail about four feet over the black spot to break Louth hearts yet again. But The Louth lads have been doing a bit of practice in training for fun. The full back leaps and, as he does, the two corner backs grab a leg each and hoist him. He pulls the ball down into his chest and returns safely to earth.
The referee blows the whistle. Is it the final whistle, replay in two weeks? Or is it another free. If so, what for?
If it's allowed, as it might be, since I can't find a rule that disallows it, it'll be tried again in the league and will be be quickly banned as it would be impossible in our game to make it safe with the rules that rugby applies. But, in the meantime ...
The original post was in relation to kick outs, which is spectacularly ludicrous.
The situation you are describing Hardy, less so, but still ludicrous.
Assuming you are going to have a few corner backs in around your full back prepared to hoist, then thats an entire full forward line unmarked and available for a short one. Unless you could get the opposition to also be obedient and stand very close to your full back....
I was at a referees course a few years back and the guy hosting it said lifting as discussed here was not allowed, though I can't remember why it came up. There are quite a few things which are not allowed but not explicitly stated in the rules. I think this would come under dangerous play, albeit, towards your own player! Lifting in football would be extremely dangerous as one or both lifters could be knocked over during the contest for the ball and lose control of the player in the air who would then be at risk of serious injury.
Quote from: Hardy on March 24, 2014, 11:20:28 AM
I've often idly speculated about it myself just for gas. It looks so spectacular in rugby. But of course it's unworkable for the reasons AZOffaly points out.
What remains, though, since there's no rule that bans it, is the question of what happens when it's tried for the first time, as could quite easily happen.
All-Ireland Final 2014. The teams are level. Last kick of the game is a 45. Mickey Newman's kick is accurate and is going to sail about four feet over the black spot to break Louth hearts yet again. But The Louth lads have been doing a bit of practice in training for fun. The full back leaps and, as he does, the two corner backs grab a leg each and hoist him. He pulls the ball down into his chest and returns safely to earth.
The referee blows the whistle. Is it the final whistle, replay in two weeks? Or is it another free. If so, what for?
If it's allowed, as it might be, since I can't find a rule that disallows it, it'll be tried again in the league and will be be quickly banned as it would be impossible in our game to make it safe with the rules that rugby applies. But, in the meantime ...
(http://www.funpub.net/poze/mare/curiose1286_1215275414.jpg)
I'm surprised Tyrone haven't tried something like this already to be honest.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 24, 2014, 11:40:02 AM
The original post was in relation to kick outs, which is spectacularly ludicrous.
The situation you are describing Hardy, less so, but still ludicrous.
Assuming you are going to have a few corner backs in around your full back prepared to hoist, then thats an entire full forward line unmarked and available for a short one. Unless you could get the opposition to also be obedient and stand very close to your full back....
Unlikely, perhaps, but not really ludicrous. You're not bothered with marking the full forward line if the ball is clearly going to sail, let's say two feet over the bar. The full back line are all in the square, within a few feet of each other. The full back was going to jump for the ball anyway. The two lads just give him an extra bit of a hoosh, not a professional rugby-style lift, but enough to get him up an extra couple of feet.
Marty Morrissey will be speechless and just jibber incoherently. So no change there. Martin Carney will say it was a foot block foul by the full forward. Michael Collins will give a sideline kick and send off the goalkeeper. Louth people will invade the pitch, just out of habit.
Now Jinxy, that's just being silly.
Quote from: Zulu on March 24, 2014, 11:41:02 AMI think this would come under dangerous play, albeit, towards your own player!
It could, except there's no rule about dangerous play towards your own player.
One thing is for sure, there's no predicting what any referee would do, should it happen.
I remember playing in an underage game when two lads from the opposing team started laying into each other.
The ref didn't know what to do.
Told their manager to sort it out and I think he subbed one of them.
This would have been up around North Meath (sure where else would it be, says you).
That's true, if it were to simultaneously happen at 10 games around the country we'd, no doubt, get 10 different decisions from the referees.
Me? I'd call it dangerous play and give a free to the opposing team, no wait the lifting team, sorry on further reflection I'd throw the ball in expect in the case of injury where I'd give a free to the lifting team unless they also injured a player on the opposing team who would then get the free and I'd send off the lifters and the lifted. At least that's what I think I'd do.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 24, 2014, 11:06:46 AM
Lets be honest lads, we've all thought of the 'standing on the crossbar' idea at some stage.
What about replacing the crossbar at your home pitch with bamboo stick. Some hefty corner backs hang off the crossbar pulling it down and as the ball come in let go -firing the lad standing on it up in the air to catch the ball.
I see it as the natural evolution of the game.
Quote from: Hardy on March 24, 2014, 11:53:27 AM
Unlikely, perhaps, but not really ludicrous. You're not bothered with marking the full forward line if the ball is clearly going to sail, let's say two feet over the bar. The full back line are all in the square, within a few feet of each other. The full back was going to jump for the ball anyway. The two lads just give him an extra bit of a hoosh, not a professional rugby-style lift, but enough to get him up an extra couple of feet.
You wouldnt know its going over til its hit, so you'd have max 3 seconds to get from your men to the line and have a lad hoisted. Perhaps in an adhoc situation, whereby forwards all happen to be in round the goals and theres no movement, but I'd say ludicrously unlikely :)
Quote from: Hardy on March 24, 2014, 09:56:24 AM
Quote from: Zulu on March 24, 2014, 09:12:55 AM
It's impractical, pointless and illegal for starters.
Illegal under which rule?
Because it is rather gay having another man grab you by the waist or top of the thighs.
Quote from: Hardy on March 24, 2014, 11:20:28 AM
I've often idly speculated about it myself just for gas. It looks so spectacular in rugby. But of course it's unworkable for the reasons AZOffaly points out.
What remains, though, since there's no rule that bans it, is the question of what happens when it's tried for the first time, as could quite easily happen.
All-Ireland Final 2014. The teams are level. Last kick of the game is a 45. Mickey Newman's kick is accurate and is going to sail about four feet over the black spot to break Louth hearts yet again. But The Louth lads have been doing a bit of practice in training for fun. The full back leaps and, as he does, the two corner backs grab a leg each and hoist him. He pulls the ball down into his chest and returns safely to earth.
The referee blows the whistle. Is it the final whistle, replay in two weeks? Or is it another free. If so, what for?
If it's allowed, as it might be, since I can't find a rule that disallows it, it'll be tried again in the league and will be be quickly banned as it would be impossible in our game to make it safe with the rules that rugby applies. But, in the meantime ...
Meath and Louth contesting the last 45 in the dying seconds of an AI final (Where does the absurdity begin and end in that statement!!!)
(http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/172252.jpg)
To be honest i dont know why a player never been lifted on the line to stop points going over the bar from long range frees, i see many apoint clear the bar and no more, lifting is not covered in the rules and i do expect some team to try it, i remember years ago when playing discussing this with players lol
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 24, 2014, 07:44:12 PM
i remember years ago when playing discussing this with players lol
See? I'm not the only one who's thought about it!
The Pyramid Play might be a useful ploy to defend against 45's, for example.
(http://tiptop25.com/1933ore_st_pyramid_play_ore.png)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2014, 07:50:46 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 24, 2014, 07:44:12 PM
i remember years ago when playing discussing this with players lol
See? I'm not the only one who's thought about it!
Now Eamonn, there's a big difference between this and lads charging around midfield on each others shoulders trying to catch a kickout.
Brilliant stuff :)
Here's anther one for you's boys, what's to stop someone from picking up the ball, getting the team to huddle around him and gradually move up the pitch towards the net where a small opening would be created for the player to kick the ball into the net. Fully legal in my eyes... ::)
Can you use tennis rackets to play hurley or is that just called rounders.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 24, 2014, 01:55:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 24, 2014, 11:20:28 AM
I've often idly speculated about it myself just for gas. It looks so spectacular in rugby. But of course it's unworkable for the reasons AZOffaly points out.
What remains, though, since there's no rule that bans it, is the question of what happens when it's tried for the first time, as could quite easily happen.
All-Ireland Final 2014. The teams are level. Last kick of the game is a 45. Mickey Newman's kick is accurate and is going to sail about four feet over the black spot to break Louth hearts yet again. But The Louth lads have been doing a bit of practice in training for fun. The full back leaps and, as he does, the two corner backs grab a leg each and hoist him. He pulls the ball down into his chest and returns safely to earth.
The referee blows the whistle. Is it the final whistle, replay in two weeks? Or is it another free. If so, what for?
If it's allowed, as it might be, since I can't find a rule that disallows it, it'll be tried again in the league and will be be quickly banned as it would be impossible in our game to make it safe with the rules that rugby applies. But, in the meantime ...
Meath and Louth contesting the last 45 in the dying seconds of an AI final (Where does the absurdity begin and end in that statement!!!)
(http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/172252.jpg)
Some size of corner backs in louth
Quote from: quiganmaster on March 24, 2014, 10:50:13 PM
Here's anther one for you's boys, what's to stop someone from picking up the ball, getting the team to huddle around him and gradually move up the pitch towards the net where a small opening would be created for the player to kick the ball into the net. Fully legal in my eyes... ::)
I think that would create the dreaded 3rd man tackle.
If any of those strokes had practical value on the field of play, then Tyrone would already be doing it.
I don't get the lifting in the rugby line out, what's the point of allowing it?
Was it to prevent sides from getting an advantage due to having some giant sized player who could pluck the line out ball at ease?
Watch the highlights of the rugger world cup final 95, the lifting rule came in after that. line out were fairly messy affairs, where only a real line out jumper like John Eales soared through the skies before the line change.
Quote from: quiganmaster on March 24, 2014, 10:50:13 PM
Here's anther one for you's boys, what's to stop someone from picking up the ball, getting the team to huddle around him and gradually move up the pitch towards the net where a small opening would be created for the player to kick the ball into the net. Fully legal in my eyes... ::)
Under Category II infractions:
Rule 5.29 B "to charge an opponent: (i) who is not in possession of the ball"
Rule 5.29 C "to charge an opponent for the purpose of giving an advantage to a teammate."
Nice try though!
Quote from: theticklemister on March 24, 2014, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 24, 2014, 01:55:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 24, 2014, 11:20:28 AM
I've often idly speculated about it myself just for gas. It looks so spectacular in rugby. But of course it's unworkable for the reasons AZOffaly points out.
What remains, though, since there's no rule that bans it, is the question of what happens when it's tried for the first time, as could quite easily happen.
All-Ireland Final 2014. The teams are level. Last kick of the game is a 45. Mickey Newman's kick is accurate and is going to sail about four feet over the black spot to break Louth hearts yet again. But The Louth lads have been doing a bit of practice in training for fun. The full back leaps and, as he does, the two corner backs grab a leg each and hoist him. He pulls the ball down into his chest and returns safely to earth.
The referee blows the whistle. Is it the final whistle, replay in two weeks? Or is it another free. If so, what for?
If it's allowed, as it might be, since I can't find a rule that disallows it, it'll be tried again in the league and will be be quickly banned as it would be impossible in our game to make it safe with the rules that rugby applies. But, in the meantime ...
Meath and Louth contesting the last 45 in the dying seconds of an AI final (Where does the absurdity begin and end in that statement!!!)
(http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/172252.jpg)
Some size of corner backs in louth
And the Louth midfielder might like to mind where those thumbs go!!
What a full back!
What's to stop a fella just rolling over the goal-line with the ball?
Quote from: Hardy on March 24, 2014, 11:20:28 AM
I've often idly speculated about it myself just for gas. It looks so spectacular in rugby. But of course it's unworkable for the reasons AZOffaly points out.
What remains, though, since there's no rule that bans it, is the question of what happens when it's tried for the first time, as could quite easily happen.
All-Ireland Final 2014. The teams are level. Last kick of the game is a 45. Mickey Newman's kick is accurate and is going to sail about four feet over the black spot to break Louth hearts yet again. But The Louth lads have been doing a bit of practice in training for fun. The full back leaps and, as he does, the two corner backs grab a leg each and hoist him. He pulls the ball down into his chest and returns safely to earth.
The referee blows the whistle. Is it the final whistle, replay in two weeks? Or is it another free. If so, what for?
If it's allowed, as it might be, since I can't find a rule that disallows it, it'll be tried again in the league and will be be quickly banned as it would be impossible in our game to make it safe with the rules that rugby applies. But, in the meantime ...
Rugby type moves in a Meath v Louth final! What put that ridiculous idea in your head.