We really need 2 more points here to give us a bit of breathing space. No doubt Westmeath will be desperate to take something out of the league and will have to give this a right go at home.
The Mayo selection will be interesting. With the U21s playing the following Wednesday Gallagher might be sitting this one out and maybe the plan is to give Doherty an extended run in the half forward line anyway.
I expect Higgins to remain at the back for the time being anyway in the continued absense of Barrett and Cuniffe and Vaughan and Seamie may be held in reserve for another couple of games yet.
Probably contrary to general consensus I liked the settling influence Andy had the last day and he probably needs all the game time he can get. On last days form Varley deserves to start and Freeman should be persisted with at ff.
Any thoughts?
Quote from: moysider on March 03, 2014, 07:14:21 PM
We really need 2 more points here to give us a bit of breathing space. No doubt Westmeath will be desperate to take something out of the league and will have to give this a right go at home.
The Mayo selection will be interesting. With the U21s playing the following Wednesday Gallagher might be sitting this one out and maybe the plan is to give Doherty an extended run in the half forward line anyway.
I expect Higgins to remain at the back for the time being anyway in the continued absense of Barrett and Cuniffe and Vaughan and Seamie may be held in reserve for another couple of games yet.
Probably contrary to general consensus I liked the settling influence Andy had the last day and he probably needs all the game time he can get. On last days form Varley deserves to start and Freeman should be persisted with at ff.
Any thoughts?
Persisted with? Surely he's an automatic choice there now, has cemented that position in the last year.
I don't think ye have too much to worry about regarding the 2 points on Sunday. We still have no idea what players are best in what position and are playing to no real identifiable game plan.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 03, 2014, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on March 03, 2014, 07:14:21 PM
We really need 2 more points here to give us a bit of breathing space. No doubt Westmeath will be desperate to take something out of the league and will have to give this a right go at home.
The Mayo selection will be interesting. With the U21s playing the following Wednesday Gallagher might be sitting this one out and maybe the plan is to give Doherty an extended run in the half forward line anyway.
I expect Higgins to remain at the back for the time being anyway in the continued absense of Barrett and Cuniffe and Vaughan and Seamie may be held in reserve for another couple of games yet.
Probably contrary to general consensus I liked the settling influence Andy had the last day and he probably needs all the game time he can get. On last days form Varley deserves to start and Freeman should be persisted with at ff.
Any thoughts?
Persisted with? Surely he's an automatic choice there now, has cemented that position in the last year.
I don't think ye have too much to worry about regarding the 2 points on Sunday. We still have no idea what players are best in what position and are playing to no real identifiable game plan.
Dunno, that was his first start in the 2014 league. Andy started the first 2 games at ff. Horan also hauled him off, somewhat harshly I believe, before ht in AI final.
Quote from: moysider on March 03, 2014, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 03, 2014, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on March 03, 2014, 07:14:21 PM
We really need 2 more points here to give us a bit of breathing space. No doubt Westmeath will be desperate to take something out of the league and will have to give this a right go at home.
The Mayo selection will be interesting. With the U21s playing the following Wednesday Gallagher might be sitting this one out and maybe the plan is to give Doherty an extended run in the half forward line anyway.
I expect Higgins to remain at the back for the time being anyway in the continued absense of Barrett and Cuniffe and Vaughan and Seamie may be held in reserve for another couple of games yet.
Probably contrary to general consensus I liked the settling influence Andy had the last day and he probably needs all the game time he can get. On last days form Varley deserves to start and Freeman should be persisted with at ff.
Any thoughts?
Persisted with? Surely he's an automatic choice there now, has cemented that position in the last year.
I don't think ye have too much to worry about regarding the 2 points on Sunday. We still have no idea what players are best in what position and are playing to no real identifiable game plan.
Dunno, that was his first start in the 2014 league. Andy started the first 2 games at ff. Horan also hauled him off, somewhat harshly I believe, before ht in AI final.
That was very harsh, if not stupid, I thought. Was never a fan and thought he would always be one of those panel members who gets a few outings every spring to keep them interested but he was superb last year.
Varley done well off the bench on Sunday i think he will start this one.Doherty is wasted in the half forwards he should be played as a corner forward.Has mikey sweeney joined up with the panel yet id like to see him get a chance aswell?
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 08:48:38 PM
Varley done well off the bench on Sunday i think he will start this one.Doherty is wasted in the half forwards he should be played as a corner forward.Has mikey sweeney joined up with the panel yet id like to see him get a chance aswell?
Mikey was on the bench the last day as was Cillian O Connor, who is supposed to be very close to a return.
The only outstanding injuries appear to be Dillon and Barrett - oh and maybe Parsons if he s retained?
Is Dillon a guaranteed starter? I dont think he is but if it was up to me Richie Feeney would be starting which i think is unlikely to happen.Dillon would be a serious man to come off the bench in a tight game
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 09:11:05 PM
Is Dillon a guaranteed starter? I dont think he is but if it was up to me Richie Feeney would be starting which i think is unlikely to happen.Dillon would be a serious man to come off the bench in a tight game
Come championship and fit I think Dillon will be a guaranteed starter yes. So will Andy, McLoughlin, Freeman and O Connor provided there all fit and well. I don t think much will have changed much. Coaches see a panel in a particular way and don t just tear up the script in my experience.
That would leave a scrum in contention for the 6th spot; Varley, Doherty,Conroy, Coen, Gallagher, Feeney. Maybe a big man like Barry or Aidan or maybe Higgins being given a role.
Maybe 1 of the under 21s will put there hand up for a spot in the forwards ;)
If we get everyone fit and on form we will have a serious team.Its nonsense to say we dont have the forwards to win the big prize
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 09:33:46 PM
Maybe 1 of the under 21s will put there hand up for a spot in the forwards ;)
Yeah Gallagher the only one of the U21s possibly making a starting spot. But if they persist with him as a corner forward he could well drift well out of contention. Cant see anybody else make a push. Younger O Connor will need more time.
Mayo should win this one handy. Have ye got 8 decent forwards now for the big push ?
Throw in a few young lads if necessary but get the forwards ready for the summer.
Yeah Gallagher the only one of the U21s possibly making a starting spot. But if they persist with him as a corner forward he could well drift well out of contention. Cant see anybody else make a push. Younger O Connor will need more time.
[/quote]
I was thinking more about him that were not allowed speak of.On a side note Hennelly is far from nailed on to be our keeper in the summer O Malley was told on tues night last he was starting on Sun only to fracture his thumb on the thursday talk about bad luck
Quote from: seafoid on March 03, 2014, 10:32:13 PM
Mayo should win this one handy. Have ye got 8 decent forwards now for the big push ?
Throw in a few young lads if necessary but get the forwards ready for the summer.
8 decent forwards ?
We haven't a fookin one to take his man on and go direct for the score on the big day but this time of year Varley , doc and co are all stars elect according to every tom dick and Harry from achill to Ballagh.
Before I get jumped on again for negativity , ahh sure it will be jumped all over anyway.
Varley Doherty and Conroy are not good enough IMO. The poor showing by some of our forwards make Regans abscence all the more annoying.
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 10:36:13 PM
Yeah Gallagher the only one of the U21s possibly making a starting spot. But if they persist with him as a corner forward he could well drift well out of contention. Cant see anybody else make a push. Younger O Connor will need more time.
I was thinking more about him that were not allowed speak of.On a side note Hennelly is far from nailed on to be our keeper in the summer O Malley was told on tues night last he was starting on Sun only to fracture his thumb on the thursday talk about bad luck
[/quote]
I knew who you were talking about but there s no point. Have to leave that behind. Too much baggage there.
Bad luck again for O Malley. Clarkie will come into it again as well. Fair play. Great sign. These boys are still hungry.
I wouldnt be so sure about Clarkie coming back Moy i was told hes finished.IMO hes our best keeper
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 10:49:44 PM
Varley Doherty and Conroy are not good enough IMO. The poor showing by some of our forwards make Regans
Had to fix that for you Dan. Strict on here - you could get banned for that.
Harsh on Doherty imo. Sigerson team of year last year and then got injured and that shut him down for the year. I mean if you re injured you re injured. Doherty has quality and is still young. Likes of Andy served a long apprenticship before he was nailed down. Several years in fact. We have to look at the quality of the player.
I thought it was reported in either western or Mayo news last week that said player is likely to be involved once 21s finished?
I didn't see report so maybe I picked up on it wrong?
Harsh on Doherty imo. Sigerson team of year last year and then got injured and that shut him down for the year. I mean if you re injured you re injured. Doherty has quality and is still young. Likes of Andy served a long apprenticship before he was nailed down. Several years in fact. We have to look at the quality of the player.
I hope Doherty proves me wrong but i stand by my view that hes wasted in the half forward line he needs to be deployed close to goal.This time last year not many of us thought Freeman would come as good as he did for us so hopefully Horan is right to persist with Doherty aswell.
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 11:04:24 PM
I wouldnt be so sure about Clarkie coming back Moy i was told hes finished.IMO hes our best keeper
Reminds me of one of the exchange between Ali and Frazier in Manila. Context was that Ali had beaten Foreman and was giving Smokin Joe a shot because he thought Joe was finished. Joe had been smashed by Foreman in a couple of rounds.
Ali ( after several rounds in monsoon heat); they told me you were finished Joe, they said that you were through!
Frazier; They lied! ( followed by a left hook)
Clarkie will be back.
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 11:15:51 PM
Harsh on Doherty imo. Sigerson team of year last year and then got injured and that shut him down for the year. I mean if you re injured you re injured. Doherty has quality and is still young. Likes of Andy served a long apprenticship before he was nailed down. Several years in fact. We have to look at the quality of the player.
I hope Doherty proves me wrong but i stand by my view that hes wasted in the half forward line he needs to be deployed close to goal.This time last year not many of us thought Freeman would come as good as he did for us so hopefully Horan is right to persist with Doherty aswell.
Playing Doherty on wing and Gallagher at 12 would be a bit like playing Rob Kearney at 10 and Sexton at 15.
Easy for anybody that has seen these players down the years. The reality is Horan has to explore all these possibilities for himself. Freeman like others was damaged in earlier regime and confidence may be an issue still. But he s bound back well after the AI mess and nailed some free the last day and showed balls and leadership while doing so. Proper stuff.
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 11:04:24 PM
I wouldnt be so sure about Clarkie coming back Moy i was told hes finished.IMO hes our best keeper
Well last time I talked to him before the Kildare match he said he was still on track to be back in the mix this summer but despite being off colour yesterday Hennelly is still a top class keeper and it will be a real battle to win back the jersey. I hope for his sake Clarkie makes sure the body is 100% right and he doesn't push it too hard to get back in the fold. With him Robbie and O' Malley we are lucky to be well stocked between the posts.
I hope Mikey Sweeney gets a run the next day and I was very impressed with Harrison at the back too. We should be able to nick two points on the face of it but we were supposed to sweep aside Kildare coming off the back of a hammering from the Dubs at home last year and roll over relegation candidates Down but were beaten fair and square by both so I won't be rolling into Mullingar looking for some light entertainment next Sunday ;).
Quote from: larryin89 on March 03, 2014, 11:09:29 PM
I thought it was reported in either western or Mayo news last week that said player is likely to be involved once 21s finished?
I didn't see report so maybe I picked up on it wrong?
I did larry and it was as without foundation as a sinkhole.
In fairness the local lads cant ask the serious questions. If they do the man will give them even less to write about. That s the way it works. Gallagher was speculating that Sweeney and another lad would be joining the panel anon. A bit like ' I think there s every chance that there s a possibility in all liklihood that X and Y may join the panel some time sooner or later within the not too distant future'
Cheers Moy, have a clearer picture now.
Must say I was disappointed in Shane McHale the last day. He seemed to fumble a lot of ball and was caught out for pace too. He'd want to up his game if he starts against Westmeath. Vaughan impressed when he came on for him in my opinion.
Mayo should throw on the u21 forwards and forget about those fellas they put on as subs in the last 2 AIFs to zero effect.
Ruthlessness is now required. And Westmeath are cannon fodder.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2014, 11:02:57 PM
Mayo should throw on the u21 forwards and forget about those fellas they put on as subs in the last 2 AIFs to zero effect.
Ruthlessness is now required. And Westmeath are cannon fodder.
I d disagree with all of that seafoid.
Anyway 2 of the U21 forwards played v Kerry. Why play them 3 days before U21 championship?
Correct, put in last year's minor forward 6.
Quote from: muppet on March 05, 2014, 12:04:43 AM
Correct, put in last year's minor forward 6.
EW Mayo had a fine U16 team last year, you need to make some room for those lads.
You'll have to keep a spot for Ciaran Mac though
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2014, 10:49:24 PM
Must say I was disappointed in Shane McHale the last day. He seemed to fumble a lot of ball and was caught out for pace too. He'd want to up his game if he starts against Westmeath. Vaughan impressed when he came on for him in my opinion.
i'd worry a little about Mchale . he seems to just a little slow in his reactions so far for Intercounty football and we are still on soft league pitches . he seems to get caught with the ball too often and is a lettle indicisive . though he did very well in the build up for Doherty's Goal
i dont think he has done enough to dsiplace Vaughan just yet .
Quote from: rosnarun on March 05, 2014, 10:54:57 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2014, 10:49:24 PM
Must say I was disappointed in Shane McHale the last day. He seemed to fumble a lot of ball and was caught out for pace too. He'd want to up his game if he starts against Westmeath. Vaughan impressed when he came on for him in my opinion.
i'd worry a little about Mchale . he seems to just a little slow in his reactions so far for Intercounty football and we are still on soft league pitches . he seems to get caught with the ball too often and is a lettle indicisive . though he did very well in the build up for Doherty's Goal
i dont think he has done enough to dsiplace Vaughan just yet .
It wasn't one of his better days.
I wouldn't be too hard on the lad but he was caught for speed time after time and if you recall the Mayo defence tightened up considerably after Vaughan replaced him. The Mayo fightback only started when he came on. Not blaming McHale for everything that was going wrong up until then but I think Vaughan has nailed down the CHB spot for the championships.
I dont meant to be hard on him but is CHB his best position? if not where is . i presume our 1st choice full back line is between Barrett cunniffe Caff and higgins .
but we may not always have our 1st choices
Quote from: rosnarun on March 05, 2014, 02:25:00 PM
I dont meant to be hard on him but is CHB his best position? if not where is . i presume our 1st choice full back line is between Barrett cunniffe Caff and higgins .
but we may not always have our 1st choices
I think fullback or corner back is his best position at intercounty and while Harrison , Keane and Higgins give good cover in the corners only Keane gives us cover for Caff unless Alan Feeney gets a recall after the Club final ( personally I hope he does).
Donie in my opinion had a rip roaring championship after a sluggish league campaign last year and I thought him Keegan , and Bolyer were heroic in the final last year under huge pressure!
Quote from: moysider on March 04, 2014, 11:46:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2014, 11:02:57 PM
Mayo should throw on the u21 forwards and forget about those fellas they put on as subs in the last 2 AIFs to zero effect.
Ruthlessness is now required. And Westmeath are cannon fodder.
I d disagree with all of that seafoid.
Anyway 2 of the U21 forwards played v Kerry. Why play them 3 days before U21 championship?
Don't turn up at the next AIF with the same forwards and subs as last year. Maybe there are some u21 considerations in the short term but ye have to go for it and throw the kitchen sink into finding new fellas who can do the job with 10 minutes to go.
Players are going to get injured and those subs are not good enough.
Just reading the first time you were in Croke park- lots of fellas started going in 85 and still haven't seen an all Ireland. Ye are so close but the forwards are the issue.
Quote from: Crete Boom on March 05, 2014, 02:56:36 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on March 05, 2014, 02:25:00 PM
I dont meant to be hard on him but is CHB his best position? if not where is . i presume our 1st choice full back line is between Barrett cunniffe Caff and higgins .
but we may not always have our 1st choices
I think fullback or corner back is his best position at intercounty and while Harrison , Keane and Higgins give good cover in the corners only Keane gives us cover for Caff unless Alan Feeney gets a recall after the Club final ( personally I hope he does).
Donie in my opinion had a rip roaring championship after a sluggish league campaign last year and I thought him Keegan , and Bolyer were heroic in the final last year under huge pressure!
I think himself and Keane can't play anywhere else but corner back. Both have been on the fringe for quite some time and I can't see either getting a starting spot in the championship.
When Cunnife got injured in the AI final, Horan took Higgins ouit of the attack to eplace him. That was hardly a vote of confidence in either of them and if Barrett and Cunniffe are free from injury, they will be automatic starters, leaving Higgins free to play upfront.
I'd say Boyler, Vaughan and Keegan are shoo-ins for the HB line. That's one line at least that shouldn't cause any headaches for JH.
Indeed, I'm confident that the six backs who started ij the AI will hold onto their places when the serious stuff begins.
Donie in my opinion had a rip roaring championship after a sluggish league campaign last year and I thought him Keegan , and Bolyer were heroic in the final last year under huge pressure!
[/quote]
Vaughan is not a cb his positional sense is awful look at Dublins 2nd goal in the final as an example.Donies distribution is also poor although i think he has worked hard on this aspect of his game.Higgins or Cunniffe are better options at 6.However saying this i still think Vaughan is an excellent player and will be starting come summer i would like to see him given a go at mf or name him in in the ff line and give him a bit of a free role where we can best use his strenghts.
Ok so can we take it then that the efforts made to reform the team have not really worked out.
Keane has been caught out a couple of times.
O lot of ye think McHale has been iffy at chb.
Boyle like a fish out of water when he was in the corner.
Higgins less than a revelation at 11.
McLoughlin and Gallagher less effective in the inside line.
We haven t had much success at converting players have we? We should end up with nearly the same team again.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.850;wap2
Jack O'Connor came in and spoke with direct compassion about what had just happened on the field. He explained that the one, single year Kerry had been waiting since their All-Ireland final loss to Tyrone had been more cutting and salty than the half-century of constant keening that accompanied Mayo teams. He explained Kerry's need had been greater. Brady listened because he respected O'Connor, and his mind roamed back to the exchanges on the field, the uncompromising hardness of the Kerry tackling, as swift and clean and accurate as middleweight combination shots.
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2014, 09:29:16 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.850;wap2
Jack O'Connor came in and spoke with direct compassion about what had just happened on the field. He explained that the one, single year Kerry had been waiting since their All-Ireland final loss to Tyrone had been more cutting and salty than the half-century of constant keening that accompanied Mayo teams. He explained Kerry's need had been greater. Brady listened because he respected O'Connor, and his mind roamed back to the exchanges on the field, the uncompromising hardness of the Kerry tackling, as swift and clean and accurate as middleweight combination shots.
A load of ould fluff that makes good newspaper pieces. In practical terms, it means shag all.
Quote from: Tubberman on March 05, 2014, 09:43:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2014, 09:29:16 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.850;wap2
Jack O'Connor came in and spoke with direct compassion about what had just happened on the field. He explained that the one, single year Kerry had been waiting since their All-Ireland final loss to Tyrone had been more cutting and salty than the half-century of constant keening that accompanied Mayo teams. He explained Kerry's need had been greater. Brady listened because he respected O'Connor, and his mind roamed back to the exchanges on the field, the uncompromising hardness of the Kerry tackling, as swift and clean and accurate as middleweight combination shots.
A load of ould fluff that makes good newspaper pieces. In practical terms, it means shag all.
+1. A load of ould hokum by O Connor. Easy to go into a beaten dressing room and talk.
QuoteOk so can we take it then that the efforts made to reform the team have not really worked out.
I would say reform is a bit strong. Its a 25 man game now and with the panel we have, albeit similar enough to last year I still think we will be there or thereabouts come Aug/Sept.
What we do appear to be doing a fair bit, which is in a similar vein to last year is overplaying the ball in the middle third / centre forward position and getting dis-possessed too easily. I don't think the inside forwards were fast enough last week but the pitch look awful heavy.
If we can improve tactically and play with a bit more intelligence all through this years campaign it might be enough rather than any major reform to the personnel.
The pitch was terrible actually. I walked across it after the game and it was much worse than it looked from the stand.
Very patchy and a lot of sand. No wonder the ball wouldn't bounce. All the more reason to let the ball in quick and long you'd have thought
Quote from: Tubberman on March 05, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
The pitch was terrible actually. I walked across it after the game and it was much worse than it looked from the stand.
Very patchy and a lot of sand. No wonder the ball wouldn't bounce. All the more reason to let the ball in quick and long you'd have thought
I couldn't fathom out why the players were hopping the ball so often either. You'd think they would get into their heads after one bad hop that they wouldn't do it again.
Quote from: Tubberman on March 05, 2014, 09:43:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2014, 09:29:16 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.850;wap2
Jack O'Connor came in and spoke with direct compassion about what had just happened on the field. He explained that the one, single year Kerry had been waiting since their All-Ireland final loss to Tyrone had been more cutting and salty than the half-century of constant keening that accompanied Mayo teams. He explained Kerry's need had been greater. Brady listened because he respected O'Connor, and his mind roamed back to the exchanges on the field, the uncompromising hardness of the Kerry tackling, as swift and clean and accurate as middleweight combination shots.
A load of ould fluff that makes good newspaper pieces. In practical terms, it means shag all.
I think they won that match. And they were hungrier than Mayo (who had a decent team) and Mayo should be that hungry in September and that they are good enough to do it but they have to be absolutely ruthless. Drop those subs and find some young forwards.
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 05, 2014, 09:43:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2014, 09:29:16 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.850;wap2
Jack O'Connor came in and spoke with direct compassion about what had just happened on the field. He explained that the one, single year Kerry had been waiting since their All-Ireland final loss to Tyrone had been more cutting and salty than the half-century of constant keening that accompanied Mayo teams. He explained Kerry's need had been greater. Brady listened because he respected O'Connor, and his mind roamed back to the exchanges on the field, the uncompromising hardness of the Kerry tackling, as swift and clean and accurate as middleweight combination shots.
A load of ould fluff that makes good newspaper pieces. In practical terms, it means shag all.
I think they won that match. And they were hungrier than Mayo (who had a decent team) and Mayo should be that hungry in September and that they are good enough to do it but they have to be absolutely ruthless. Drop those subs and find some young forwards.
Yes, they did win that match and O Connor felt empowered as a result to rub it in. To suggest that the difference was was down to hunger amounted to an insult.
Who are the subs that should be dropped? Richie Feeney? Where do we find these young forwards - Donedeal?
Not getting personal but Galway are still picking the likes of Sice and Army and Paul Conroy - have they ever won a championship game in Croke Park and why are they still being wheeled out? I suspect the answer is that they are still the best you ve got in spite of relative success with underage teams. Not that easy to find players that can do it in last 4.
I think they won that match. And they were hungrier than Mayo (who had a decent team) and Mayo should be that hungry in September and that they are good enough to do it but they have to be absolutely ruthless. Drop those subs and find some young forwards.
[/quote]
Of the subs we brought on in the final Doherty and Moran were only back from injury and the other 3 were not good enough IMO. hopefully we can add Galagher this year and i think we can all agree Ritchie Feeney can offer us something and if we have more luck with injuries we will be in better shape.Parsons Harrison Mc Hale and Drake may also stake a claim for a spot so theres no need to tear up the script just yet.I believe for us to get over the line we need Horan and co to smarten up if we had set up right for any of the 2 finals we would have won.A good tactician knows that James can be out manouvered and my big fear is that this will kill us again this year
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2014, 10:03:01 PM
QuoteOk so can we take it then that the efforts made to reform the team have not really worked out.
I would say reform is a bit strong. Its a 25 man game now and with the panel we have, albeit similar enough to last year I still think we will be there or thereabouts come Aug/Sept.
What we do appear to be doing a fair bit, which is in a similar vein to last year is overplaying the ball in the middle third / centre forward position and getting dis-possessed too easily. I don't think the inside forwards were fast enough last week but the pitch look awful heavy.
If we can improve tactically and play with a bit more intelligence all through this years campaign it might be enough rather than any major reform to the personnel.
Hey, I m not looking for root and branch reform or anything. But a certain amount of 'experimentation' has happened with little positive coming out of it. But a positive would be that management may have realised that there are some things some players cant do. That s important too.
I agree with you about Aug/Sept. Not sure about 25 players (we usually overestimate our depth at this time of year) but by Summer we may have boosted last years panel. But when push came to shove last year, management ended up with a limited enough number of players that they really trusted. Less than 20 imo.
Anyone from Westmeath here at all?
Croí??
Clearly you are hot favourites for this one at home.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 03, 2014, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on March 03, 2014, 07:14:21 PM
We really need 2 more points here to give us a bit of breathing space. No doubt Westmeath will be desperate to take something out of the league and will have to give this a right go at home.
The Mayo selection will be interesting. With the U21s playing the following Wednesday Gallagher might be sitting this one out and maybe the plan is to give Doherty an extended run in the half forward line anyway.
I expect Higgins to remain at the back for the time being anyway in the continued absense of Barrett and Cuniffe and Vaughan and Seamie may be held in reserve for another couple of games yet.
Probably contrary to general consensus I liked the settling influence Andy had the last day and he probably needs all the game time he can get. On last days form Varley deserves to start and Freeman should be persisted with at ff.
Any thoughts?
Persisted with? Surely he's an automatic choice there now, has cemented that position in the last year.
I don't think ye have too much to worry about regarding the 2 points on Sunday. We still have no idea what players are best in what position and are playing to no real identifiable game plan.
Croí appears to have conceded the game on page1. I expect it to be tricky enough.
Strange to see Mayo facing the #1 maroon team in the country and it not being the Fancy Dans.
Fair play to Seafóid for trying to help out his fellow Connachtmen. With all that's going on at home, you'd think Mayo would be the Laois of his worries.
Quote from: moysider on March 03, 2014, 09:24:05 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 03, 2014, 09:11:05 PM
Is Dillon a guaranteed starter? I dont think he is but if it was up to me Richie Feeney would be starting which i think is unlikely to happen.Dillon would be a serious man to come off the bench in a tight game
Come championship and fit I think Dillon will be a guaranteed starter yes. So will Andy, McLoughlin, Freeman and O Connor provided there all fit and well. I don t think much will have changed much. Coaches see a panel in a particular way and don t just tear up the script in my experience.
That would leave a scrum in contention for the 6th spot; Varley, Doherty,Conroy, Coen, Gallagher, Feeney. Maybe a big man like Barry or Aidan or maybe Higgins being given a role.
I thought JH was doing a magnificent job of putting a team together right up to the AI final in 2012.
IMO, he had the best goalie and backs in the country and the midfield was able at least to hold their own with anyone.
Forwards then as now, were the weakest links but he was making good progress in that department. Going into the Down game, he had settled on the HB line and the FF spot with only the corner forward positions still in doubt.
Andy's injury that day was catastrophic - no doubt about that. We're still feeling the aftershocks.
Eighteen months later, he's still not back to full fitness and there's no guarantee that he will ever recapture his previous form. If that's not bad enough, Cillian's shoulder injury added to Horan's woes.
If both had been available and in top form, the AI result last September might well have been different but there's nothing to be gained by speculation.The run of bad luck is extraordinary with the pair of them along with Dillon also trying to come back from injury - one of them misfiring would be serious enough but if all three are not fully fit, maybe it'll be time to suspect that the effin' priest in Foxford had more influence with he Man Above than we thought.
Let's hope for the best- I can't see Mayo being stopped in Connacht but it's down to Providence.
I'd agree with your choice of forwards above but, while Freeman was on top form last Sunday, I don't remember him ever having two good performances on the trot.
I think Richie, going by his form last year, deserves a spot but it's too soon yet to assume he'll get it.
Really, there's quite number fighting for forward places but whether the end result will be good enough to go the whole way this year remains to be seen.
Quote from: rosnarun on March 05, 2014, 02:25:00 PM
I dont meant to be hard on him but is CHB his best position? if not where is . i presume our 1st choice full back line is between Barrett cunniffe Caff and higgins .
but we may not always have our 1st choices
For me the only place for McHale is full back and at the moment he isn't going to replace Cafferkey. Good back up for this spot thou.
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 05, 2014, 05:18:42 PM
Donie in my opinion had a rip roaring championship after a sluggish league campaign last year and I thought him Keegan , and Bolyer were heroic in the final last year under huge pressure!
Quote[/color]Vaughan is not a cb his positional sense is awful look at Dublins 2nd goal in the final as an example.Donies distribution is also poor although i think he has worked hard on this aspect of his game.Higgins or Cunniffe are better options at 6.However saying this i still think Vaughan is an excellent player and will be starting come summer i would like to see him given a go at mf or name him in in the ff line and give him a bit of a free role where we can best use his strenghts.
[/quote]
Nah. Can't agree with any of this. For me Donie Vaughan is one of the most underrated players on the Mayo team. It seems to be a common thing for so called experts to talk about his positional sense and lack of defending ability. It's like something which they heard someone say once and because it sounds good it's repeated time and again. You pick out one move in a match last year as an example to prove your point and yet ignore the phenomenal defensive performance that Vaughan put in for the match. A buddy of mine was giving out about Vaughan after the match because he wasn't making the runs forward. The lad can't win. For me Vaughan offers that toughness that Mayo have been missing for years in the back line. He gets in lads faces. What he offers to Mayo forward play cannot be underestimated either but I think the final showed that he's not all about galloping up the pitch to get on the end of scores.
Quote from: moysider on March 05, 2014, 11:14:31 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 03, 2014, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: moysider on March 03, 2014, 07:14:21 PM
We really need 2 more points here to give us a bit of breathing space. No doubt Westmeath will be desperate to take something out of the league and will have to give this a right go at home.
The Mayo selection will be interesting. With the U21s playing the following Wednesday Gallagher might be sitting this one out and maybe the plan is to give Doherty an extended run in the half forward line anyway.
I expect Higgins to remain at the back for the time being anyway in the continued absense of Barrett and Cuniffe and Vaughan and Seamie may be held in reserve for another couple of games yet.
Probably contrary to general consensus I liked the settling influence Andy had the last day and he probably needs all the game time he can get. On last days form Varley deserves to start and Freeman should be persisted with at ff.
Any thoughts?
Persisted with? Surely he's an automatic choice there now, has cemented that position in the last year.
I don't think ye have too much to worry about regarding the 2 points on Sunday. We still have no idea what players are best in what position and are playing to no real identifiable game plan.
Croí appears to have conceded the game on page1. I expect it to be tricky enough.
It won't be. Westmeath will play to keep the score down, just as they have done in the previous 3 games. Bealin doesn't trust the players enough to play any more than 4 players in the opposition half at any one time. Disappointing as their scoring rate last year was very impressive, albeit in division 2. Mayo might not win by a massive scoreline like Derry did (2 early goals killed them), but the result will never be in doubt.
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 05, 2014, 09:43:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2014, 09:29:16 PM
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.850;wap2
Jack O'Connor came in and spoke with direct compassion about what had just happened on the field. He explained that the one, single year Kerry had been waiting since their All-Ireland final loss to Tyrone had been more cutting and salty than the half-century of constant keening that accompanied Mayo teams. He explained Kerry's need had been greater. Brady listened because he respected O'Connor, and his mind roamed back to the exchanges on the field, the uncompromising hardness of the Kerry tackling, as swift and clean and accurate as middleweight combination shots.
A load of ould fluff that makes good newspaper pieces. In practical terms, it means shag all.
I think they won that match. And they were hungrier than Mayo (who had a decent team) and Mayo should be that hungry in September and that they are good enough to do it but they have to be absolutely ruthless. Drop those subs and find some young forwards.
A better explanation of that day was that Kerry's one year famine was a lighter load to carry than Mayos 55 year famine.
Nah. Can't agree with any of this. For me Donie Vaughan is one of the most underrated players on the Mayo team. It seems to be a common thing for so called experts to talk about his positional sense and lack of defending ability. It's like something which they heard someone say once and because it sounds good it's repeated time and again. You pick out one move in a match last year as an example to prove your point and yet ignore the phenomenal defensive performance that Vaughan put in for the match. A buddy of mine was giving out about Vaughan after the match because he wasn't making the runs forward. The lad can't win. For me Vaughan offers that toughness that Mayo have been missing for years in the back line. He gets in lads faces. What he offers to Mayo forward play cannot be underestimated either but I think the final showed that he's not all about galloping up the pitch to get on the end of scores.
[/quote]
If u read my post you will see i didnt question Donals defensive ability i just dont think hes a 6.you say that Vaughan is underestimated well i disagree Dublin thought so much of him that they put Flynn on him to limit his influence in the final.
Jesus dan, somebody better tell you how to quote properly on this! ;)
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 06, 2014, 07:00:41 PM
Nah. Can't agree with any of this. For me Donie Vaughan is one of the most underrated players on the Mayo team. It seems to be a common thing for so called experts to talk about his positional sense and lack of defending ability. It's like something which they heard someone say once and because it sounds good it's repeated time and again. You pick out one move in a match last year as an example to prove your point and yet ignore the phenomenal defensive performance that Vaughan put in for the match. A buddy of mine was giving out about Vaughan after the match because he wasn't making the runs forward. The lad can't win. For me Vaughan offers that toughness that Mayo have been missing for years in the back line. He gets in lads faces. What he offers to Mayo forward play cannot be underestimated either but I think the final showed that he's not all about galloping up the pitch to get on the end of scores.
If u read my post you will see i didnt question Donals defensive ability i just dont think hes a 6.you say that Vaughan is underestimated well i disagree Dublin thought so much of him that
they put Flynn on him to limit his influence in the final.
[/quote]
They recognised that Vaughan sets the tempo. His drive and ambition was a huge factor in blowing teams away in the early stages of last years championship. It was noticable v Kerry that things changed when he came on. We upped our game and got a grip. He brings a confidence, ambition and conviction we dont always see in our county players. It could be argued we have tecnically better players but we might not have many more influential ones.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 06, 2014, 08:39:34 PM
Jesus dan, somebody better tell you how to quote properly on this! ;)
Im trying Farr il get the hang of these computer things yet
Quote from: moysider on March 06, 2014, 10:10:49 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 06, 2014, 07:00:41 PM
Nah. Can't agree with any of this. For me Donie Vaughan is one of the most underrated players on the Mayo team. It seems to be a common thing for so called experts to talk about his positional sense and lack of defending ability. It's like something which they heard someone say once and because it sounds good it's repeated time and again. You pick out one move in a match last year as an example to prove your point and yet ignore the phenomenal defensive performance that Vaughan put in for the match. A buddy of mine was giving out about Vaughan after the match because he wasn't making the runs forward. The lad can't win. For me Vaughan offers that toughness that Mayo have been missing for years in the back line. He gets in lads faces. What he offers to Mayo forward play cannot be underestimated either but I think the final showed that he's not all about galloping up the pitch to get on the end of scores.
If u read my post you will see i didnt question Donals defensive ability i just dont think hes a 6.you say that Vaughan is underestimated well i disagree Dublin thought so much of him that they put Flynn on him to limit his influence in the final.
They recognised that Vaughan sets the tempo. His drive and ambition was a huge factor in blowing teams away in the early stages of last years championship. It was noticable v Kerry that things changed when he came on. We upped our game and got a grip. He brings a confidence, ambition and conviction we dont always see in our county players. It could be argued we have tecnically better players but we might not have many more influential ones.
[/quote]
This is why i would like to see Donal given a chance at mf or named in the forwards but given a licence to drive us on and influence the game.This wont happen of course because were conservative old Mayo and we will have the tactical straight jacket on before we even get started
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 06, 2014, 07:00:41 PM
Nah. Can't agree with any of this. For me Donie Vaughan is one of the most underrated players on the Mayo team. It seems to be a common thing for so called experts to talk about his positional sense and lack of defending ability. It's like something which they heard someone say once and because it sounds good it's repeated time and again. You pick out one move in a match last year as an example to prove your point and yet ignore the phenomenal defensive performance that Vaughan put in for the match. A buddy of mine was giving out about Vaughan after the match because he wasn't making the runs forward. The lad can't win. For me Vaughan offers that toughness that Mayo have been missing for years in the back line. He gets in lads faces. What he offers to Mayo forward play cannot be underestimated either but I think the final showed that he's not all about galloping up the pitch to get on the end of scores.
If u read my post you will see i didnt question Donals defensive ability i just dont think hes a 6.you say that Vaughan is underestimated well i disagree Dublin thought so much of him that they put Flynn on him to limit his influence in the final.
[/quote]
When I say underestimated I mean by his own. Your right Dublin did see Mayo's main threat came from the half back line. They dealt with this but it meant the whole Dublin half forward line was nullified. Didn't mean to be having a hop of you dan but when you say his positional sense is awful and his distribution is poor I wonder how you could fit him into midfield. The Mayo half back line is the strongest line we have and probably the best half back line in the country but yet for some reason Vaughan gets no credit for his role in it
Quote from: criostlinn on March 06, 2014, 10:58:34 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 06, 2014, 07:00:41 PM
Nah. Can't agree with any of this. For me Donie Vaughan is one of the most underrated players on the Mayo team. It seems to be a common thing for so called experts to talk about his positional sense and lack of defending ability. It's like something which they heard someone say once and because it sounds good it's repeated time and again. You pick out one move in a match last year as an example to prove your point and yet ignore the phenomenal defensive performance that Vaughan put in for the match. A buddy of mine was giving out about Vaughan after the match because he wasn't making the runs forward. The lad can't win. For me Vaughan offers that toughness that Mayo have been missing for years in the back line. He gets in lads faces. What he offers to Mayo forward play cannot be underestimated either but I think the final showed that he's not all about galloping up the pitch to get on the end of scores.
If u read my post you will see i didnt question Donals defensive ability i just dont think hes a 6.you say that Vaughan is underestimated well i disagree Dublin thought so much of him that they put Flynn on him to limit his influence in the final.
When I say underestimated I mean by his own. Your right Dublin did see Mayo's main threat came from the half back line. They dealt with this but it meant the whole Dublin half forward line was nullified. Didn't mean to be having a hop of you dan but when you say his positional sense is awful and his distribution is poor I wonder how you could fit him into midfield. The Mayo half back line is the strongest line we have and probably the best half back line in the country but yet for some reason Vaughan gets no credit for his role in it
[/quote]
I know what u mean by our own underestimating him i heard a few supporters saying he didnt show up for the final but he was on Paul Flynn ffs.I think he has improved his distribution ive noticed he keeps it very simple now whereas before he was trying the difficult pass a lot and turning over possesion.If we paired him with a more defensive minded midfielder like aos or Barry Moran his lack of positional sense wouldnt be such a liability he would give us great mobility round the middle.Latly feel free to have a pop whenever u wish Croistlinn it would be rare when a man agrees with me about football ;D
Quote from: criostlinn on March 06, 2014, 10:58:34 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 06, 2014, 07:00:41 PM
Nah. Can't agree with any of this. For me Donie Vaughan is one of the most underrated players on the Mayo team. It seems to be a common thing for so called experts to talk about his positional sense and lack of defending ability. It's like something which they heard someone say once and because it sounds good it's repeated time and again. You pick out one move in a match last year as an example to prove your point and yet ignore the phenomenal defensive performance that Vaughan put in for the match. A buddy of mine was giving out about Vaughan after the match because he wasn't making the runs forward. The lad can't win. For me Vaughan offers that toughness that Mayo have been missing for years in the back line. He gets in lads faces. What he offers to Mayo forward play cannot be underestimated either but I think the final showed that he's not all about galloping up the pitch to get on the end of scores.
If u read my post you will see i didnt question Donals defensive ability i just dont think hes a 6.you say that Vaughan is underestimated well i disagree Dublin thought so much of him that they put Flynn on him to limit his influence in the final.
When I say underestimated I mean by his own. Your right Dublin did see Mayo's main threat came from the half back line. They dealt with this but it meant the whole Dublin half forward line was nullified. Didn't mean to be having a hop of you dan but when you say his positional sense is awful and his distribution is poor I wonder how you could fit him into midfield. The Mayo half back line is the strongest line we have and probably the best half back line in the country but yet for some reason Vaughan gets no credit for his role in it
[/quote]
I wouldn t pay much heed to that. I was at a match where McDanger was booed. I heard people say they would never attend a Mayo game again if McHale was playing. And that s only a sample. Forget about that.
Quote from: muppet on March 05, 2014, 11:06:28 PM
Anyone from Westmeath here at all?
Croí??
Clearly you are hot favourites for this one at home.
Go away out of that muppet. You travelling down on Sunday? Don't forget to leave enough time to get your photo taken with Joe.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 07, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 05, 2014, 11:06:28 PM
Anyone from Westmeath here at all?
Croí??
Clearly you are hot favourites for this one at home.
Go away out of that muppet. You travelling down on Sunday? Don't forget to leave enough time to get your photo taken with Joe.
Croi, can you give me directions to the ground?
I'll be driving down from Dublin.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 07, 2014, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 07, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 05, 2014, 11:06:28 PM
Anyone from Westmeath here at all?
Croí??
Clearly you are hot favourites for this one at home.
Go away out of that muppet. You travelling down on Sunday? Don't forget to leave enough time to get your photo taken with Joe.
Croi, can you give me directions to the ground?
I'll be driving down from Dublin.
Take the second exit for Mullingar signposted Delvin and left at the top of the slip road. Shamrocks will look after your banger for you or else there is a free car park on your left just after the car park for St. Paul's Church. I'd imagine there'll be a decent crowd travelling from Mayo so I'd stick it that side of the canal as opposed to parking outside Cusack Park. You could always dump it beside the tunnel if you're feeling adventurous.
How far from the train station is the ground?
Quote from: larryin89 on March 07, 2014, 02:58:08 PM
How far from the train station is the ground?
10 mins walk
Any teams named yet???
Hennelly.Harrison,Caff,Keane,Keegan,Vaughan,Boyle,A.O.S,Gibbons,McL,Doc, Higgins ,Varley,Freeman,Sweeney.I guess the one surprise would be Andy Moran dropping to the bench
Quote from: maigheo on March 07, 2014, 11:03:32 PM
Hennelly.Harrison,Caff,Keane,Keegan,Vaughan,Boyle,A.O.S,Gibbons,McL,Doc, Higgins ,Varley,Freeman,Sweeney.I guess the one surprise would be Andy Moran dropping to the bench
Thanks for that maigheo.
Good start for Mayo.2.04 to 1.01 after 10 min
Westmeath 1.04 Mayo 2.06 20 min gone. Lee keegan with 1.01
Westmeath 2.08 Mayo 2.07
:-[
billy fitz bemoaning that mayo backs are not acting like backs, anybody at the game. Midfield appears to be non existent.
Hard to know what to make of it by listening to the radio, but Horan would need to give them the hairdryer treatment at half-time. 9 points up to 1 point down. Make up your minds what ye will about that.
O this sounds woeful.
Cillian O'Connor getting warmed up.
Freeman brings it level.
Cillian O'Connor on.
McLoughlin puts Mayo 1 up.
(Drake came on about 5 minutes ago and Boyle has gone back into half back line)
Aiden O'Shea to Doherty, Doherty pulled down in freetaking position. Alan Freeman scores.
2.11
2.09
Higgins shot on goal saved by Westmeath keeper.
O'Connor to Keegan, Mayo now 3 up as Lee points it.
Good man mghu, keep it coming
Seamus O'Shea coming on for Jason Gibbons.
Dessie Dolan misses what sounds like a handy one.
Glennon off for Westmeath about 5 minutes ago.
Gavin stops a Higgins Freeman move on goal.
Conroy for Sweeney.
Drake scores a long distance point.
2.14 to 2.09 Freeman point
Freeman scores a big one.
2.14
2.09
Brian Gallagher for Doherty.
Freeman misses a 45.
MWR seem impressed by Drake.
Big COC free score.
O'Shea to Gallagher, he points.
2.16 to 2.09.Oconnor and Gallagher
Boyle doing much better since move.
Westmeath wide.
Carolan for Higgins.
2 mins left.
O'Shea bossing it.
McGuire beats Carolan and turns over Mayo attack. Westmeath turn it around, James Dolan goal.
Gallagher point.
Boyle wins a free.
MWR says that Westmeath score was the first in 32 minutes.
Freeman misses free, still 5 points in it.
Game Over.
Thanks for the updates. A win is a win and is always welcome, but that didn't sound too convincing. Nor does conceding 3 goals
A bizzare first half. Great start for us. Don t think Westmeath got out of their own half for first 5 mins. After about 15 mins we were 9 points up and in complete control.
What happened? Well the first goal gave them a lifeline and even in the conditions it looked a dreadful mistake. A high ball not dealth with. An og. This gave Westmeath hope where there should not have been any.
But in fairness WM did tighten things up considerably and tactically got it right by filtering back to stop runners and pilfering scores on the counter-attack. Usually from frees. It may have been a mistake on Mayo's part to keep playing a dry ball game in the conditions. The WM full back line was very good when they settled.
The good thing is that the team should great character to come back from 2 points down early in the second half to win quite comfortably in the end. They ll learn more from todays struggle that if it had been a landslide like it looked like it was going to be in first quarter. But we should have scored at least 1 more goal in the second half. There were several very good Mayo performances. AOS was savage at times and I thought Keegan was class. Boyle kept taking the game to WM and prevented 2 certain scores, one a block, the other a perfect shoulder. Caff was clever and assured and Harrison did well in trying circumstances. Impressed by Drake when he came on at ht. He has pace and he looks like he wants to be there.
Freeman was probably the pick of the forwards. McLoughlin played well and Higgins had a few moments but does not seem to have the same impact yet from here. Good to see Cillian O Connor back. Important addition as he seemed to settle the team as the crowd! He kicked a peach of a free.
Thought Gibbons did well before being replaced by Seamie.
Unreal Mayo crowd at the game. It was like a home game - only better because a much more intimate venue for a league match. Enjoyed it in spite of the soaking.
Moysider,
thank you for report, you don't always get a good read on the game listening to midwest, billy fits was very critical of our back line at half time, said they were not focussing on their primary job defending, ant thoughts??
Considering the way the game has gone since the new rules have come in, with scores seemingly getting higher (16 goals in D1 & 8 in D2 this weekend), has the value of a corner back increased?? Lads who used to get away with a sneaky aul pull here and there aren't risking it anymore
Quote from: joemamas on March 09, 2014, 08:17:52 PM
Moysider,
thank you for report, you don't always get a good read on the game listening to midwest, billy fits was very critical of our back line at half time, said they were not focussing on their primary job defending, ant thoughts??
The way I see it our half back line launches so many of our attacks and raid forward at will that there is bound to be a prolem when attacks break down. Then there is any amount of room for the opposition to kill us on the counter attack. The amazing thing is that out fb line manages to cope as well as it does under the circumstances. Today because of our early dominance, both our midfielders and all half backs were raiding at the same time and the attacks began to clog up and break down. The conditions did not help.
Unless we change the way we play this could continue to be a problem. Maybe if we had a couple of corner forwards who could win their own ball consistently we wouldn t have to rely on the running game as much to create scores. Today was a bit like the Tyrone AI semi. When WM got bodies around us and squeezed us we squealed.
But we should never have alllowed WM into that game today.
I don't think because of our attacking hb line it excuses our full back line and keeper for not being able to deal with a straight forward high ball tactic , which is happening with our lot.
Miserable day in Mullingar
I wouldnt think we can read a massive amount into the performance of the team as a whole. Croi will know I have a fair bit of experience with bad teams and this Westmeath team are as poor a team as has been in Div 1 for a while. For the first ten minutes we ran riot, lovely short, crisp hand passing, they couldnt get out of their half and we were winning everything at midfield.
And then we just stopped, they got a lucky goal (reminiscent of the minor replay for Hennelly unfortunately, which is becoming a theme) and we stopped running the ball at speed.
The second half we picked it up again and blew them out of the water. James Dolan is a fine player for them and caused a lot of trouble.
I think we can take a lot from the individual performances.
Keane - just not good enough, tried hard but hes getting roasted a lot, and when it goes wrong it goes really wrong. We wont win an all-ireland with him in the full back, its that simple and if you accept that is the case then why are we persisting?
HB line - looked amazing in full flow yesterday and do great tracking but when they all go forward, while they are quick enough to track runners back they are leaving acres of space for the opposition to kick ball into a FF line which is 3v3. One mistake and we are wide open. I;m not sure what the solution is
Midfield - we have great options, Gibbons and O'Shea played well yesterday but I'd like to see us being smarter with knocking the ball down to players, we dont have to win a clean catch everytime
Forwards - This is where the trouble starts
DOC - played well but end product is missing too often. You'd hope that will come
McL - an extra half back basically and wins a sight of ball - definite starter
Higgins - I havent been impressed by him this year in the HF, does solve the problem at corner back
Freezer - good game again yesterday
Varley/Mikey Sweeney - I'm not sure why we kick long high ball into these guys, it makes no sense, esp on a wet day. I dont think either offer enough to make the first team and i wouldnt rely on either to come off the bench, they might do it but its hit and miss. (Maybe a little harsh on sweeney)
Conroy - WTF?? I'm not sure what was up yesterday but he looked like he was drunk/stoned/a junior B footballer.
I'm a fan of his ball winning and think hes a good man to come off the bench, esp if he can get his decision making in order
COC - great to see him back and u can even see from his few passes what he brings to the team - he will be our marquee forward this year and be the reason we can win the AI
That leaves me with a starting forward line of KMcL, COC, Freezer, Andy, Gallagher
with one from Dillon, Doc, Conroy, Feeney, B Moran, Parsons??
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2014, 01:07:10 AM
I don't think because of our attacking hb line it excuses our full back line and keeper for not being able to deal with a straight forward high ball tactic , which is happening with our lot.
I wouldn't excuse that either. There is one obvious redial action that could be done.
Maybe Alan Feeney could bring more authority under a high ball too. But it won't stop the problem of teams hurting us on the break.
A lot of those breaks is down to some of our forwards losing the ball or not being able to win it in the first place and shot attempts dropping short. When we are back to full strength in the forwards this mightn't be as much of a problem.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 10, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
this Westmeath team are as poor a team as has been in Div 1 for a while
Dunno about that, the players are certainly no worse than the Downs of this world. Apart from Glennon, Dolan and Duffy they are largely under 25 playing under a manager who is just in the job and is still getting to know them and their best positions, e.g. Heslin started ff against Cork, half forward against Dublin then moved to midfield the last day; Ger Egan and Martin were in the corners against Cork and are now out around the middle (it was them two in particular who dragged us back in to the game in the second quarter); James Dolan played the first 3 games at wing back and is now full forward; Sharry has gone from half forward to midfield and is now half back. What has also being killing us is how defensively we are set up, whereas the game has changed massively in the last 12 months.
We are also extremely slow out of the blocks (this was also an issue in Div 2 last year but we were able to drag ourselves back into games down there). As has been said we couldn't get out of our own half in the first 10 mins. We were the architects of our downfall here tbh as unbelievably we kept kicking the ball out to Aidan O'Se. Duffy looked to be carrying an injury all game which may be why we kept it away from him but it was criminal to kick down on top of the man mountain that is O'Se. We should have loaded one side of the pitch and got runners breaking into space on the other. Mayo like Cork, Dublin and Derry looked to take the game to us early and they made hay. What was encouraging though is that we stuck at it and started competing in the middle. It was great to see Ger Egan get the hunger back, Kieran Martin as well. When we started putting pressure on in the middle the fb line were able to get a foothold and compete with their men. We went away from what worked for us in the second half, i.e. taking points. Glennon was guilty here more than most. McCormack should take his place one he's fit. Mayo kept the scoreboard ticking over in the second half and they were out to seven points while we foostered up front.
First time seeing Mayo up close in a few years. Very impressive. O'Se and Keegan are diamond footballers, McLoughlin is bigger and more fundamental to Mayo that he looks on the box. Freedman has to be first choice ff now. Kevin Keane is not up to it in the corner.
Imperative we get points on the board before championship. We showed at times we can compete with the big guns. We need to stay at that level, get more clinical upfront and start stronger, much stronger.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 10, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
Miserable day in Mullingar
I wouldnt think we can read a massive amount into the performance of the team as a whole. Croi will know I have a fair bit of experience with bad teams and this Westmeath team are as poor a team as has been in Div 1 for a while. For the first ten minutes we ran riot, lovely short, crisp hand passing, they couldnt get out of their half and we were winning everything at midfield.
And then we just stopped, they got a lucky goal (reminiscent of the minor replay for Hennelly unfortunately, which is becoming a theme) and we stopped running the ball at speed.
The second half we picked it up again and blew them out of the water. James Dolan is a fine player for them and caused a lot of trouble.
I think we can take a lot from the individual performances.
Keane - just not good enough, tried hard but hes getting roasted a lot, and when it goes wrong it goes really wrong. We wont win an all-ireland with him in the full back, its that simple and if you accept that is the case then why are we persisting?
HB line - looked amazing in full flow yesterday and do great tracking but when they all go forward, while they are quick enough to track runners back they are leaving acres of space for the opposition to kick ball into a FF line which is 3v3. One mistake and we are wide open. I;m not sure what the solution is
Midfield - we have great options, Gibbons and O'Shea played well yesterday but I'd like to see us being smarter with knocking the ball down to players, we dont have to win a clean catch everytime
Forwards - This is where the trouble starts
DOC - played well but end product is missing too often. You'd hope that will come
McL - an extra half back basically and wins a sight of ball - definite starter
Higgins - I havent been impressed by him this year in the HF, does solve the problem at corner back
Freezer - good game again yesterday
Varley/Mikey Sweeney - I'm not sure why we kick long high ball into these guys, it makes no sense, esp on a wet day. I dont think either offer enough to make the first team and i wouldn't rely on either to come off the bench, they might do it but its hit and miss. (Maybe a little harsh on sweeney)
Conroy - WTF?? I'm not sure what was up yesterday but he looked like he was drunk/stoned/a junior B footballer.
I'm a fan of his ball winning and think hes a good man to come off the bench, esp if he can get his decision making in order
COC - great to see him back and u can even see from his few passes what he brings to the team - he will be our marquee forward this year and be the reason we can win the AI
That leaves me with a starting forward line of KMcL, COC, Freezer, Andy, Gallagher
with one from Dillon, Doc, Conroy, Feeney, B Moran, Parsons??
Have a lot of respect for Andy Moran and Alan Dillon and the time they have dedicated to the Mayo cause, but have to wonder if they really have pace and in Alan Dillon's case strength to start a championship game. They may be far better coming off bench with 15-20 mins to go, when pace of game has dripped slightly. In today's non contact game. managers may need to be looking at footballers that have the ability to sprint up and down the field for an hour, crazy analogy, but the way the game is going it may not be a stretch.
Impressed with Gallagher, but he may need some time to develop. If I had my choice, I would be tempted start Barry Moran, Alan Freeman and Conroy in full forward line, or Richie Feeney and let him play between half and full forward line.
Quote from: moysider on March 09, 2014, 08:31:38 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 09, 2014, 08:17:52 PM
Moysider,
thank you for report, you don't always get a good read on the game listening to midwest, billy fits was very critical of our back line at half time, said they were not focussing on their primary job defending, ant thoughts??
The way I see it our half back line launches so many of our attacks and raid forward at will that there is bound to be a prolem when attacks break down. Then there is any amount of room for the opposition to kill us on the counter attack. The amazing thing is that out fb line manages to cope as well as it does under the circumstances. Today because of our early dominance, both our midfielders and all half backs were raiding at the same time and the attacks began to clog up and break down. The conditions did not help.
Unless we change the way we play this could continue to be a problem. Maybe if we had a couple of corner forwards who could win their own ball consistently we wouldn t have to rely on the running game as much to create scores. Today was a bit like the Tyrone AI semi. When WM got bodies around us and squeezed us we squealed.
But we should never have alllowed WM into that game today.
Isn't that the main problem in a nutshell?
I think JH had realised before his first season was over that he didn't have the forwards needed to do serious damage to anybody bar themselves and he went about trying to minimise the problem.
If you remember, the talk in 2012 was about the way Mayo had changed their style of play with the emphasis on scoring points from a distance rather then trying to work the ball in close and going and going for goals. That's when the hbs started breaking forward on the attack.
Of course, it helped that he had the best hb line in the country and, IMO, he still has. As poor Conoreen found out, JH put more emphasis on work ethic rather than individualism and I think he had settled on all positions bar the corner forward ones when we met Down in the QF in 2012.
I think Andy's injury upset the apple cart in a serious way as he was then the only one capable of going for goals from open play.
Cillian's injury problems last year were another grievous blow and it remains to be seen if Horan can get back on track and improve on last year's showing.
But when you try to analyse yesterday's performance there's a few worrying parallels with semi against Tyrone. When Mayo get caught on the hop and the opposition is tougher than anticipated, the management and players seem unable to react promptly and change their game plan. It's as if they don't have a plan B when things aren't going their way.
Better teams in each game would have been out of sight before Mayo realised they had a problem.
Still, I'd say all is not lost yet as JH will have better options in the forwards than he has had to date. It was good to see Cilian in action again -; let's hope he hasn't returned too soon and gets injured again. Having him and Andy at 100% fitness if Mayo are to have any chance of going the distance. Dunno what the story is with Alan Dillon but if he's fit, he will be needed.
A good win against Cork on Sunday, will greatly help the cause
Yeah, time to look forward to the Cork game.
I see James Horan is very critical of the team conceding so much.
' we re very open and every time a team attacks against us it can be a goal.................. if we play like that against Cork next Sunday we'll concede something like 3-20 or 21 or 22 easily and that will be a big focus for us during the week'
Look, nobody really pays too much heed to manager speak but ........ It s like James sometimes distances himself from what s happening on the pitch. It reminds me of the Brian Ashton quote after an error laden loss to Scotland while coaching Ireland.
"I'm not quite sure whose game plan that is but it's nothing to do with me."
I m sure he knows the buck stops with him. It does, so it s no good pointing out the errors of the ways of players that he coaches and selects and the unsustainability of the teams tactics s. He is responsible for results and in fairness he usually gets them.
However if you compare ourselves with the alpha team, Dublin. Dublin play Cian O Sullivan as mostly a holding midfielder and link player. We don t do that. Dublin play Ger Brennan as a defensive anchor at 6 who is important for working ball out of defence but seldom crosses the half way line. We don t do that. The Dublin corner backs hardly ever go on raids up the field. We don t do that.
Not saying we have to play like Dublin but every serious team needs to get the defense right. That is what Horan has to do.
From what I ve seen so far and from what s available ( I m assuming Andy has some injury and Cillian is good to go) I d like to see this line up to start the next day.
Hennelly, Harrison, Caff, Drake/Higgins, Keegan, Vaughan, Boyle, AOS, Gibbons, McLough, O Connor, Gallagher/Higgins
Doherty, Freeman, Sweeney.
Not saying that will be the starting XV for championship in Summer but I d like to see us have a proper cut at this home match. But there are tough calls to be made. One of the midfielders and whoever is at 6 is going to have to play a holding role if we are not to concede a serious score.
Quote from: joemamas on March 10, 2014, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 10, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
Miserable day in Mullingar
I wouldnt think we can read a massive amount into the performance of the team as a whole. Croi will know I have a fair bit of experience with bad teams and this Westmeath team are as poor a team as has been in Div 1 for a while. For the first ten minutes we ran riot, lovely short, crisp hand passing, they couldnt get out of their half and we were winning everything at midfield.
And then we just stopped, they got a lucky goal (reminiscent of the minor replay for Hennelly unfortunately, which is becoming a theme) and we stopped running the ball at speed.
The second half we picked it up again and blew them out of the water. James Dolan is a fine player for them and caused a lot of trouble.
I think we can take a lot from the individual performances.
Keane - just not good enough, tried hard but hes getting roasted a lot, and when it goes wrong it goes really wrong. We wont win an all-ireland with him in the full back, its that simple and if you accept that is the case then why are we persisting?
HB line - looked amazing in full flow yesterday and do great tracking but when they all go forward, while they are quick enough to track runners back they are leaving acres of space for the opposition to kick ball into a FF line which is 3v3. One mistake and we are wide open. I;m not sure what the solution is
Midfield - we have great options, Gibbons and O'Shea played well yesterday but I'd like to see us being smarter with knocking the ball down to players, we dont have to win a clean catch everytime
Forwards - This is where the trouble starts
DOC - played well but end product is missing too often. You'd hope that will come
McL - an extra half back basically and wins a sight of ball - definite starter
Higgins - I havent been impressed by him this year in the HF, does solve the problem at corner back
Freezer - good game again yesterday
Varley/Mikey Sweeney - I'm not sure why we kick long high ball into these guys, it makes no sense, esp on a wet day. I dont think either offer enough to make the first team and i wouldn't rely on either to come off the bench, they might do it but its hit and miss. (Maybe a little harsh on sweeney)
Conroy - WTF?? I'm not sure what was up yesterday but he looked like he was drunk/stoned/a junior B footballer.
I'm a fan of his ball winning and think hes a good man to come off the bench, esp if he can get his decision making in order
COC - great to see him back and u can even see from his few passes what he brings to the team - he will be our marquee forward this year and be the reason we can win the AI
That leaves me with a starting forward line of KMcL, COC, Freezer, Andy, Gallagher
with one from Dillon, Doc, Conroy, Feeney, B Moran, Parsons??
Have a lot of respect for Andy Moran and Alan Dillon and the time they have dedicated to the Mayo cause, but have to wonder if they really have pace and in Alan Dillon's case strength to start a championship game. They may be far better coming off bench with 15-20 mins to go, when pace of game has dripped slightly. In today's non contact game. managers may need to be looking at footballers that have the ability to sprint up and down the field for an hour, crazy analogy, but the way the game is going it may not be a stretch.
Impressed with Gallagher, but he may need some time to develop. If I had my choice, I would be tempted start Barry Moran, Alan Freeman and Conroy in full forward line, or Richie Feeney and let him play between half and full forward line.
You would start a young fella who has only played 2 league games ahead of a two time all-star who is still only 31? big call. Dont get me wrong, I think Gallagher has a lot of potential but Id be holding off for a while yet before saying he's a championship starter. Dont forget either that Dillon was carrying an injury for most of last year. The time off will hopefully have sorted it out.
An interesting point made there that our over reliance on the running game is due to JH not having faith in his full forward line options. Possibly so, however I think last years final proves that we wont win it without mixing the game plan up a bit, I hope JH sees it that way too. Anyway, as was said, this year should be the first time since the bank holiday 2012 that we have a fully fit Andy and COC. Slot Dillon back into the half forward line and push Andy forward, that leaves you with a Freezer/Andy/COC trio. It is absolutely vital that we get a settled full forward line ticking. Have faith in those 3, their the best hope we have.
Quote from: Dubhaltach on March 10, 2014, 11:24:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on March 10, 2014, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 10, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
Miserable day in Mullingar
I wouldnt think we can read a massive amount into the performance of the team as a whole. Croi will know I have a fair bit of experience with bad teams and this Westmeath team are as poor a team as has been in Div 1 for a while. For the first ten minutes we ran riot, lovely short, crisp hand passing, they couldnt get out of their half and we were winning everything at midfield.
And then we just stopped, they got a lucky goal (reminiscent of the minor replay for Hennelly unfortunately, which is becoming a theme) and we stopped running the ball at speed.
The second half we picked it up again and blew them out of the water. James Dolan is a fine player for them and caused a lot of trouble.
I think we can take a lot from the individual performances.
Keane - just not good enough, tried hard but hes getting roasted a lot, and when it goes wrong it goes really wrong. We wont win an all-ireland with him in the full back, its that simple and if you accept that is the case then why are we persisting?
HB line - looked amazing in full flow yesterday and do great tracking but when they all go forward, while they are quick enough to track runners back they are leaving acres of space for the opposition to kick ball into a FF line which is 3v3. One mistake and we are wide open. I;m not sure what the solution is
Midfield - we have great options, Gibbons and O'Shea played well yesterday but I'd like to see us being smarter with knocking the ball down to players, we dont have to win a clean catch everytime
Forwards - This is where the trouble starts
DOC - played well but end product is missing too often. You'd hope that will come
McL - an extra half back basically and wins a sight of ball - definite starter
Higgins - I havent been impressed by him this year in the HF, does solve the problem at corner back
Freezer - good game again yesterday
Varley/Mikey Sweeney - I'm not sure why we kick long high ball into these guys, it makes no sense, esp on a wet day. I dont think either offer enough to make the first team and i wouldn't rely on either to come off the bench, they might do it but its hit and miss. (Maybe a little harsh on sweeney)
Conroy - WTF?? I'm not sure what was up yesterday but he looked like he was drunk/stoned/a junior B footballer.
I'm a fan of his ball winning and think hes a good man to come off the bench, esp if he can get his decision making in order
COC - great to see him back and u can even see from his few passes what he brings to the team - he will be our marquee forward this year and be the reason we can win the AI
That leaves me with a starting forward line of KMcL, COC, Freezer, Andy, Gallagher
with one from Dillon, Doc, Conroy, Feeney, B Moran, Parsons??
Have a lot of respect for Andy Moran and Alan Dillon and the time they have dedicated to the Mayo cause, but have to wonder if they really have pace and in Alan Dillon's case strength to start a championship game. They may be far better coming off bench with 15-20 mins to go, when pace of game has dripped slightly. In today's non contact game. managers may need to be looking at footballers that have the ability to sprint up and down the field for an hour, crazy analogy, but the way the game is going it may not be a stretch.
Impressed with Gallagher, but he may need some time to develop. If I had my choice, I would be tempted start Barry Moran, Alan Freeman and Conroy in full forward line, or Richie Feeney and let him play between half and full forward line.
You would start a young fella who has only played 2 league games ahead of a two time all-star who is still only 31? big call. Dont get me wrong, I think Gallagher has a lot of potential but Id be holding off for a while yet before saying he's a championship starter. Dont forget either that Dillon was carrying an injury for most of last year. The time off will hopefully have sorted it out.
An interesting point made there that our over reliance on the running game is due to JH not having faith in his full forward line options. Possibly so, however I think last years final proves that we wont win it without mixing the game plan up a bit, I hope JH sees it that way too. Anyway, as was said, this year should be the first time since the bank holiday 2012 that we have a fully fit Andy and COC. Slot Dillon back into the half forward line and push Andy forward, that leaves you with a Freezer/Andy/COC trio. It is absolutely vital that we get a settled full forward line ticking. Have faith in those 3, their the best hope we have.
Or maybe it happens that many of our better players are fellas that are brilliant at running the ball.
Who knows how the forwards will evolve into the Summer but I hope we develop around Cillian at 11 and Freeman at 14.
Not too frequent I'd agree with you moy but you're spot on there
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 10, 2014, 11:43:27 PM
Not too frequent I'd agree with you moy but you're spot on there
:o
Like what have you disageed with? My Johnno years? ;D ;D
COC has to be at 11 if we are to win, hes a playmaker, great passer and a leader
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 11, 2014, 09:26:45 AM
COC has to be at 11 if we are to win, hes a playmaker, great passer and a leader
Agree.Tore Galway to shreds from 11 last year.
Anyone have an objection to Keith Higgins staying at 12 but playing in a Mark McHugh type role of a sweeper who can get up and down the pitch, would give the full back line some protection.
Barry Moran could have a say in the FF line yet...especially if goes well on Monday.
Quote from: ballinaman on March 11, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
Barry Moran could have a say in the FF line yet...especially if goes well on Monday.
1. Why would you move Freedman from there? Only place you could play Moran would be ff itself, unless you got the two of them to play a tight 2 man ff line.
2. Will Moran play ff again on Mon? I assumed that was a tactic purely for the Crokes game.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 11, 2014, 02:40:12 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on March 11, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
Barry Moran could have a say in the FF line yet...especially if goes well on Monday.
1. Why would you move Freedman from there? Only place you could play Moran would be ff itself, unless you got the two of them to play a tight 2 man ff line.
2. Will Moran play ff again on Mon? I assumed that was a tactic purely for the Crokes game.
I reckon he will be there on Monday, played there a few times through their campaign.
I wouldn't move Freeman personally but injuries or positional switches during the game could see Moran in there. Definite option, caused havoc vs Crokes
Quote from: ballinaman on March 11, 2014, 03:29:05 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 11, 2014, 02:40:12 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on March 11, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
Barry Moran could have a say in the FF line yet...especially if goes well on Monday.
1. Why would you move Freedman from there? Only place you could play Moran would be ff itself, unless you got the two of them to play a tight 2 man ff line.
2. Will Moran play ff again on Mon? I assumed that was a tactic purely for the Crokes game.
I reckon he will be there on Monday, played there a few times through their campaign.
I wouldn't move Freeman personally but injuries or positional switches during the game could see Moran in there. Definite option, caused havoc vs Crokes
Sure did. Crokes really missed Brosnan driving them on from 6.
Quote from: ballinaman on March 11, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 11, 2014, 09:26:45 AM
COC has to be at 11 if we are to win, hes a playmaker, great passer and a leader
Agree.Tore Galway to shreds from 11 last year.
Anyone have an objection to Keith Higgins staying at 12 but playing in a Mark McHugh type role of a sweeper who can get up and down the pitch, would give the full back line some protection.
Barry Moran could have a say in the FF line yet...especially if goes well on Monday.
Don't think Barry Moran's performance will matter that much in the AI club final. I'd say Horan has his mind made up as to where Barry Moran's place lies in the squad. He was effective in the FF line v Crokes, but it was not glamorous stuff and would be easier curtailed by a inter county team.