One to relish. Kerry sitting with zero points after 3 games, and the very last thing they'd want would be for Tyrone to put another nail in their Division 1 coffin! ;)
We'll need to have a greater presence in the middle of the park, for the whole 70 minutes, than we had in Newbridge yesterday.
dont think s cavanagh, c cavanagh, grugan, r mc kenna, p harte and mc ginley had enough influence around the middle againist kildare most of them will start againist kerry. would like to see mark donnelly in at number 10.
From a selfish Mayo POV, a Tyrone victory would do our division 1 status no harm. Tyrone and Cork look safe, so it is Kerry, Westmeath, Derry and Dublin we would hope will stumble.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2014, 04:28:28 PM
From a selfish Mayo POV, a Tyrone victory would do our division 1 status no harm. Tyrone and Cork look safe, so it is Kerry, Westmeath, Derry and Dublin we would hope will stumble.
Derry have the same points as Tyrone and have already won in Kerry. I would imagine they are safe enough.
I'd mix it up a bit for this one and try a few new options in defence. Clarke does ok but always let's his man win the ball. There's a lot of running in him a I'd give him another go out the pitch, think joe McMahon would be a better option at full back. I'm also not convinced we could end up needing mattie Donnelly at centre half back.
If we're going to go man for man we need to win a lot more ball around the middle and really get stuck in for the breaks and get bodies in there for kickouts. We always seem out numbered there for them which is crazy given we don't catch any.
As I say I'd experiment a bit and go with a line up like this
Morgan
Pj ( probably injured again)
Mcnamee
Tierney
Mcnabb
Mcbride
Harte
Clarke
Colm c
Grugan
Sean c
Mark d
R oneill
Mattie d
Mccurry
I see Steve oneill has had surgery on his ankle and is it for the rest of the league. If its an injury carrying over from last year it's strange they've waited so long to do this. It was shown yesterday that there'll be games when mattie Donnelly needs brought out the pitch and Steve would still be a decent option to replace him up there.
I still think we may need Sean as he gits up to speed at midfield. Mark donnelly s work rate will get him a half forward position. Last year he was pulled down more times than any other player. This year the black card will work in his favour. The problem is at 6 and where to play petie. Gormley is needed asap.
Fancy Tyrone to win this handy enough , Kerry not good for 70mins of what Tyrone can offer.
Tyrone by half a dozen plus.
I think it's a straight choice between wing half back and wing half forward for Peter Harte. I don't think he's strong enough for a central position and would be better suited to the wing. I suppose it's easy to get carried away after a poor performance yesterday which can lead to being over negative.
I don't think a lot of the team were at the top of their game but still sneaked a very tricky away fixture. Sean cavanagh looks a we bit of the pace but the games will bring him on. I think we'll see an improved performance all round against Kerry this week.
Any chance of a few points headstart for this one lads? Its only fair considering we usually do f*ck all in the last quarter of games these days. :-[
We could seriously do with Declan/Darran back or even Donaghy, but none of them will play next week. Backline will need to step it up big time and midfield has to be more consistent. Forwards are moving well enough, but being a bit impatient.
All in all, unless a massive improvement in defending and accuracy up front happen, we'll be in trouble again.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 03, 2014, 09:41:50 PM
I'd mix it up a bit for this one and try a few new options in defence. Clarke does ok but always let's his man win the ball. There's a lot of running in him a I'd give him another go out the pitch, think joe McMahon would be a better option at full back. I'm also not convinced we could end up needing mattie Donnelly at centre half back.
If we're going to go man for man we need to win a lot more ball around the middle and really get stuck in for the breaks and get bodies in there for kickouts. We always seem out numbered there for them which is crazy given we don't catch any.
As I say I'd experiment a bit and go with a line up like this
Morgan
Pj ( probably injured again)
Mcnamee
Tierney
Mcnabb
Mcbride
Harte
Clarke
Colm c
Grugan
Sean c
Mark d
R oneill
Mattie d
Mccurry
Mccrory is as bad as Clarke for letting the man win the ball. Always like the look of McNamee and McBride has impressed in central defensive positions any time I have seen him too. Has Shay McGuigan gone out of favour? Big Sean is only back, the only thing that will bring him on is games.
I'd say Shay will see little football for this rest of the year. Matty Donnelly, McAliskey, McCurry and Rony O'Neill have more or less nailed down starting spots and from now on you'll see the team lineups change very little. Mickey will pick two workhorses/scappers to fill the 10 & 11 jerseys.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 04, 2014, 08:13:18 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 03, 2014, 09:41:50 PM
I'd mix it up a bit for this one and try a few new options in defence. Clarke does ok but always let's his man win the ball. There's a lot of running in him a I'd give him another go out the pitch, think joe McMahon would be a better option at full back. I'm also not convinced we could end up needing mattie Donnelly at centre half back.
If we're going to go man for man we need to win a lot more ball around the middle and really get stuck in for the breaks and get bodies in there for kickouts. We always seem out numbered there for them which is crazy given we don't catch any.
As I say I'd experiment a bit and go with a line up like this
Morgan
Pj ( probably injured again)
Mcnamee
Tierney
Mcnabb
Mcbride
Harte
Clarke
Colm c
Grugan
Sean c
Mark d
R oneill
Mattie d
Mccurry
Mccrory is as bad as Clarke for letting the man win the ball. Always like the look of McNamee and McBride has impressed in central defensive positions any time I have seen him too. Has Shay McGuigan gone out of favour? Big Sean is only back, the only thing that will bring him on is games.
Would agree on McRrory. Potentially a good player but just too clean and nice at county level to be a top corner back. He'll shadow his man all day and won't be far away but just never gets enough pressure on them and a top forward will exploit this. As I said earlier I think Mattie D would help the defence at centre half but he's a great option in the forwards too.
As I just posted on the Kildare thread.
I reckon Mickey is trying to re-engineer the defenders out of thinking about having the security of a sweeper to fall back on. I think he's letting players like McCrory, Clarke and a few others get a bit of a roasting so that they will learn how they are being exposed and that they need to do something about it themselves.
I will be surprised if PJ Quinn doesn't make one of the corner back places his own come the summer if he's fit. Big IF I know
I heard that about Stevie's operation just at the weekend but it sure was kept all hush hush. Maybe they were waiting to see was it gonna sort itself out and when it didn't then they operated.
Are many of ye going down?
I would start McNabb this weekend.
We are deffo gonna need Big Joe at some stage.
On the Stevie O'Neill thing - achillies injury is very hard to get over, id say we have seen the end of him.
to think it all came about by standing on a ball last year before the league final ...
I do think that Penrose is another good option from the bench and I would like to see him soon.
Quote from: sam03/05 on March 04, 2014, 07:28:59 PM
I would start McNabb this weekend.
We are deffo gonna need Big Joe at some stage.
On the Stevie O'Neill thing - achillies injury is very hard to get over, id say we have seen the end of him.
to think it all came about by standing on a ball last year before the league final ...
I do think that Penrose is another good option from the bench and I would like to see him soon.
Just thinking a little left field (ok a lot left field).....but could Penrose be converted to a man marking cornerback? He has speed, can tackle and a great engine to get up and down the field......
I have Kerry in Last Mawn Standing. Mon the Kingdom!
In this day and age why are Tyrone so negative. We must defeat their negativity....how ?
Just thinking a little left field (ok a lot left field).....but could Penrose be converted to a man marking cornerback? He has speed, can tackle and a great engine to get up and down the field......
[/quote]
I would be of the same mindset, but maybe wing half back instead and along with big joe @ chb and carlin on the other wing, its now time to sort out this disaster of a half back line before its too late.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 04, 2014, 11:07:23 PM
In this day and age why are Tyrone so negative. We must defeat their negativity....how ?
Kerry are currently as close to negative as you can get. Nil poi as they would say in the Eurovision. And with a -8 score aggregate. Hopefully playing a positive Tyrone team will allow the electrons to flow across and give poor negative Kerry a spark.
Quote from: kickingmule on March 04, 2014, 11:56:07 PM
Just thinking a little left field (ok a lot left field).....but could Penrose be converted to a man marking cornerback? He has speed, can tackle and a great engine to get up and down the field......
I would be of the same mindset, but maybe wing half back instead and along with big joe @ chb and carlin on the other wing, its now time to sort out this disaster of a half back line before its too late.
[/quote]
I think Penrose will actually thrive if he is played in a forward position. He has great vision and a fair range of passing. He is 30 now which is probably to old to do a decent conversion from forward to defence. I know we are raving about a few of our forwards at the minute but how many of them have done it when the pressure is on and 2 men hanging out of them which was the case last Sunday. They may well do it in future and deserve a chance to do so but having watched Penrose for the this past 2 year I honestly don't see 6 better complete forwards in the county. There are those more clinical but its a matter of balance.
Quote from: tyroneman on March 04, 2014, 08:51:50 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on March 04, 2014, 07:28:59 PM
I would start McNabb this weekend.
We are deffo gonna need Big Joe at some stage.
On the Stevie O'Neill thing - achillies injury is very hard to get over, id say we have seen the end of him.
to think it all came about by standing on a ball last year before the league final ...
I do think that Penrose is another good option from the bench and I would like to see him soon.
Just thinking a little left field (ok a lot left field).....but could Penrose be converted to a man marking cornerback? He has speed, can tackle and a great engine to get up and down the field......
Penrose has been a defender for the last lock of years has he not? (regardless of the number on his back)..tenacious at it too
Quote from: J OGorman on March 05, 2014, 09:27:41 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on March 04, 2014, 08:51:50 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on March 04, 2014, 07:28:59 PM
I would start McNabb this weekend.
We are deffo gonna need Big Joe at some stage.
On the Stevie O'Neill thing - achillies injury is very hard to get over, id say we have seen the end of him.
to think it all came about by standing on a ball last year before the league final ...
I do think that Penrose is another good option from the bench and I would like to see him soon.
Just thinking a little left field (ok a lot left field).....but could Penrose be converted to a man marking cornerback? He has speed, can tackle and a great engine to get up and down the field......
Penrose has been a defender for the last lock of years has he not? (regardless of the number on his back)..tenacious at it too
That is what I thought. He also has lost his killer scoring instinct. There might be a 'Dooher' role for him to get some break/dirty ball around midfield.
Didn't make it to Newbridge last week so am hoping to go down to Killarney. Surprisingly it's my first trip to a Tyrone game in Munster and with it being my 29th birthday (AGAIN) I'm feeling lucky.
According to the Irish News today, Joe McMahon may miss the entire league campaign, although he could be in contention in about a month's time. That's a big blow. On a brighter note, Justy and the block are in contention for Killarney.
What injury does Joey have?
I'd say Justy will always have problems with him hamstrings.
I'd say Mickey might do a bit more experimenting this weekend as he knows the points are assured anyway.
Maybe he should try Morgan at CHB to tighten things up a bit. Would Penrose be any good in goals?
I would say Mc Bride could get a start this weekend to try and shore things up. Would like to see him get a run in the half back line.
Mickey rings the changes to give the bench a run out for this easy one. 5 changes from last week
Niall Morgan, PJ Quinn, Conor Clarke, Barry Tierney, Danny Mc Bride, Peter Harte, Ronan Mc Nabb, Colm Cavanagh, Sean Cavanagh, Emmett Mc Kenna, Ronan O'Neill, Shay Mc Guigan, Darren Mc Curry, Mattie Donnelly, Patrick Mc Neice.
Not a bad team and interesting Mickey continues to chop and change. I'm looking forward to seeing a few of these new lads in the flesh. Was this the same ground McCurry made his championship debut?
Glad to see PJ back in the team and wonder will Clarke not look so exposed this week?
Quote from: tyroneman on March 06, 2014, 08:26:24 PM
I would say Mc Bride could get a start this weekend to try and shore things up. Would like to see him get a run in the half back line.
Good call.
Good shout indeed tyroneman, and happy enough with that starting 15, with 3 changes in defence from the Kildare game (1 x FB & 2 x HBs). Bring it on! :)
Harte continues to ignore the glaring problem in the half back line,
Yet Tony Donnelly concedes ... The middle third is winning no dirty ball and
Offering no cover to a overworked fbl.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 06, 2014, 09:16:11 PM
Good shout indeed tyroneman, and happy enough with that starting 15, with 3 changes in defence from the Kildare game (1 x FB & 2 x HBs). Bring it on! :)
Happy enough with that line up all right and I'd say yr happy alright with the SB representation there Fear ;)
Still not sure why McNeice gets a start though. Has yet to impress in any senior game I've seen but he's young and there's no place like the kingdom to come good in....
I'm also not sure why Ricey gave Kerry so much ammunition with all this last chance saloon stuff on the eve of the game. Is there no cute hoorism in Tyrone at all?..
I have never seen McNeice do anything to even warrant a place in the squad, never mind a starting place over the likes of McAliskey.
Quote from: sam03/05 on March 06, 2014, 10:40:16 PM
I have never seen McNeice do anything to even warrant a place in the squad, never mind a starting place over the likes of McAliskey.
Mckenna cup final
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 06, 2014, 09:03:59 PM
Not a bad team and interesting Mickey continues to chop and change. I'm looking forward to seeing a few of these new lads in the flesh. Was this the same ground McCurry made his championship debut?
Glad to see PJ back in the team and wonder will Clarke not look so exposed this week?
Nope he made his debut the previous week from the bench against Roscommon.
Quote from: EC Unique on March 05, 2014, 11:45:06 AM
That is what I thought. He also has lost his killer scoring instinct. There might be a 'Dooher' role for him to get some break/dirty ball around midfield.
Did Penrose ever have a "killer scoring instinct" at county level? When played in a traditional attacking role for Tyrone he invariably managed a few good scores now and then, but all too often lacked the crucial bit of composure that marks out really class players. In my opinion he was always better a bit further back the field where his workrate could be put to use. A good player and a fine servant on previous teams and may well be a handy sub but the current Tyrone team need better starting options if they are to improve on last summer.
On a similar vein I'm not sure why Peter Harte is still starting at number 6. Surely we know by now that he can destroy lesser teams from that position but that the tactic doesn't work against the top counties? I would have thought that Tyrone should have been trying to find the best way to deploy Harte's considerable talents - either at wing half back or in the half forward line surely - rather than persisting with him in a role which hasn't worked so far. I think McNeice is another rather bemusing one and I don't see how his McKenna Cup final performance showcased his ability - he missed two great goal chances in the space of a couple of minutes and that was on top of lack of composure in crucial moments against Derry in the league. Perhaps he has a role to play but I am not convinced he has earned yet another chance at this stage.
I am aware all of that sounds very negative when Mickey clearly knows much more than me and hasn't lost a game this year despite several experimental line ups. Just a little concerned that we are again fated to head into the championship with question marks over key positions, a recurring problem in recent seasons.
Peter Harte was actually moved out of centre half back before going off on Sunday so he could be switched again. I wouldn't start McNeice or McKenna but still think its probably strongest line up of the year so far.
Defence is definitely stronger than last week. I'm still not convinced by the half forward abilities to win primary ball and this is should be a large part of what they are judged on. McNabb proved v Armagh a few years ago in championship that he could win plenty of break ball in the middle, wouldn't mind seeing him get another go at half forward.
Looking forward to seeing mcguigan and oneill hopefully spray quality ball into Donnelly and mccurry. Wouldn't be surprised if pj and tierney are currently his first choice corner backs. Hoping Mcbride can prove his worth at the level too.
Thought I'd watch the same game from last year here on Sky+. I remembered we lost but jeepers I forgot how crap we were. It's nearly half time and big Sean has just kicked over a free to make it 0.05 to 1.13.
Kerry must have won the last three or four meetings between the teams now.
McNeice started that day too as did both McMahons and both Cavanaghs with Mattie and Petey starting on da 40.
I hope we don't let them get off to their lightening start again and so its all about catch up again in the second half. I too am glad to see PJ return as think we've too many loose marking defenders like McCrory and even Clarke. I hope McNabb can stay injury free as he works hard to win dirty ball.
Tyrone 5.15 Kerry 4.17
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 06, 2014, 11:21:28 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on March 05, 2014, 11:45:06 AM
That is what I thought. He also has lost his killer scoring instinct. There might be a 'Dooher' role for him to get some break/dirty ball around midfield.
Did Penrose ever have a "killer scoring instinct" at county level? When played in a traditional attacking role for Tyrone he invariably managed a few good scores now and then, but all too often lacked the crucial bit of composure that marks out really class players. In my opinion he was always better a bit further back the field where his workrate could be put to use. A good player and a fine servant on previous teams and may well be a handy sub but the current Tyrone team need better starting options if they are to improve on last summer.
On a similar vein I'm not sure why Peter Harte is still starting at number 6. Surely we know by now that he can destroy lesser teams from that position but that the tactic doesn't work against the top counties? I would have thought that Tyrone should have been trying to find the best way to deploy Harte's considerable talents - either at wing half back or in the half forward line surely - rather than persisting with him in a role which hasn't worked so far. I think McNeice is another rather bemusing one and I don't see how his McKenna Cup final performance showcased his ability - he missed two great goal chances in the space of a couple of minutes and that was on top of lack of composure in crucial moments against Derry in the league. Perhaps he has a role to play but I am not convinced he has earned yet another chance at this stage.
I am aware all of that sounds very negative when Mickey clearly knows much more than me and hasn't lost a game this year despite several experimental line ups. Just a little concerned that we are again fated to head into the championship with question marks over key positions, a recurring problem in recent seasons.
Did Penrose ever have a "killer scoring instinct" at county level?
m harte told penrose he was as valuable to tyrone as t freeman was to monaghan, he must like value him.
I would like to see McBride at 6 and Harte and McNabb either side of him. Exciting team selected this week. Still haven't seen what McKenna and McNeice have done to justify a start.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2014, 08:35:58 AM
I would like to see McBride at 6 and Harte and McNabb either side of him. Exciting team selected this week. Still haven't seen what McKenna and McNeice have done to justify a start.
maybe tyrone have better subs because these guys are starting? lol
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 06, 2014, 11:21:28 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on March 05, 2014, 11:45:06 AM
That is what I thought. He also has lost his killer scoring instinct. There might be a 'Dooher' role for him to get some break/dirty ball around midfield.
Did Penrose ever have a "killer scoring instinct" at county level? When played in a traditional attacking role for Tyrone he invariably managed a few good scores now and then, but all too often lacked the crucial bit of composure that marks out really class players. In my opinion he was always better a bit further back the field where his workrate could be put to use. A good player and a fine servant on previous teams and may well be a handy sub but the current Tyrone team need better starting options if they are to improve on last summer.
On a similar vein I'm not sure why Peter Harte is still starting at number 6. Surely we know by now that he can destroy lesser teams from that position but that the tactic doesn't work against the top counties? I would have thought that Tyrone should have been trying to find the best way to deploy Harte's considerable talents - either at wing half back or in the half forward line surely - rather than persisting with him in a role which hasn't worked so far. I think McNeice is another rather bemusing one and I don't see how his McKenna Cup final performance showcased his ability - he missed two great goal chances in the space of a couple of minutes and that was on top of lack of composure in crucial moments against Derry in the league. Perhaps he has a role to play but I am not convinced he has earned yet another chance at this stage.
I am aware all of that sounds very negative when Mickey clearly knows much more than me and hasn't lost a game this year despite several experimental line ups. Just a little concerned that we are again fated to head into the championship with question marks over key positions, a recurring problem in recent seasons.
Good post, id agree with all that.
There is a sense of Dejavu really about Tyrone this season. We have deep reservoir of quality footballers well capable at this level, but unfortunately we lack the stardust required to mount a serious challenge for Sam - particularly in defence. A lot of the lads on this panel are on a similar level / standard and thus there is a desire for constant changing of personnel - which prevents us developing as a settled side, building momentum & improvement.
With the guarantee of just 4 more matches before Championship, it looks like there are about 7 or 8 places in the starting 15 still up for grabs which is worrying.
Dublin, Mayo & Donegal are ahead of us for a few reasons, the main one being they know who their best 15 is.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2014, 08:35:58 AM
I would like to see McBride at 6 and Harte and McNabb either side of him. Exciting team selected this week. Still haven't seen what McKenna and McNeice have done to justify a start.
He can hardly drop a lad who kicked 1-2 from play in the last game?
Quote from: BennyHarp on March 07, 2014, 08:48:55 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2014, 08:35:58 AM
I would like to see McBride at 6 and Harte and McNabb either side of him. Exciting team selected this week. Still haven't seen what McKenna and McNeice have done to justify a start.
He can hardly drop a lad who kicked 1-2 from play in the last game?
Would have been hard, but just thought he didn't do much apart from that and in all the games I have seen him play he hasn't had that big an influence.
Quote from: BennyHarp on March 07, 2014, 08:48:55 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2014, 08:35:58 AM
I would like to see McBride at 6 and Harte and McNabb either side of him. Exciting team selected this week. Still haven't seen what McKenna and McNeice have done to justify a start.
He can hardly drop a lad who kicked 1-2 from play in the last game?
Indeed. Despite his handling errors last day out (it seemed like his gloves were smothered in grease), he's definitely worth another go, to see if he can settle at this grade.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 07, 2014, 10:32:50 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on March 07, 2014, 08:48:55 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 07, 2014, 08:35:58 AM
I would like to see McBride at 6 and Harte and McNabb either side of him. Exciting team selected this week. Still haven't seen what McKenna and McNeice have done to justify a start.
He can hardly drop a lad who kicked 1-2 from play in the last game?
Indeed. Despite his handling errors last day out (it seemed like his gloves were smothered in grease), he's definitely worth another go, to see if he can settle at this grade.
That would be my point - he had a few bad moments but had the strength of chartacter to still contribute significantly. The ball handling will come, the temperament is important and he was able to forget a few mistakes and kick 1-2. Worth another try in my view!
Haven't saw enough of him to make an educated comment but he looks fast and has an eye for goal which is always worth some leeway
Who else would you see as being much better than him.
I had to laugh at Brolly's article in the Gaelic Life again this week. He really has been trying his best to praise Mickey Harte this year to date for his abandonment of the dark defensive ways.
Having watched that league match last night from last year v Kerry we were also very open then too with Kerry cutting us to shreds all through the first half.
How do ye think it will go then lads & ladies?
With Kerry having so many out injured it looks like a Tyrone victory but we know too well how Kerry can get motivated when they say the red hand of Ulster in their "faces" and with them fighting for survival we could see a few multi coloured cards.
Are many of ye coming down for it? There's a squad of us coming down from Dublin on the train Sunday morning.
Paddy Power have Kerry as slight favourites on 10/11 with Tyrone not far behind at 6/5
A few weeks ago id probably have been more confident, but that performance against Kildare set a few alarm bells off with a throw back to problems of the recent past - wiped out at Midfield, defence exposed, and not winning enough dirty ball around the middle third.
Kerry are in transition & missing some key men however so I think Tyrone will squeeze it. Should be a good contest.
Sounds like a good day out Fuzzman. Nice dry day forecast in Killarney, no need for the car keys. Few beers no doubt & hopefully a Tyrone win. I'll make do with the TV!
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 04, 2014, 11:07:23 PM
In this day and age why are Tyrone so negative. We must defeat their negativity....how ?
Mike are you going down to the match on Sunday?
I say it will be a bit less tense than the last game down there. I hope so anyway
Kerry Senior Football Team V Tyrone
The team is as follows:
1.Brian Kelly (Killarney Legion)
2.Paul Murphy (Rathmore)
3.Mark Griffin (St Michaels/Foilmore)
4.Shane Enright (Tarbert)
5.Peter Crowley (Laune Rangers)
6.Fionn Fitzgerald (Dr Crokes)
7.Marc Sé (An Ghaeltacht)
8.Anthony Maher (Duagh)
9.David Moran (Kerins O'Rahillys)
10.Daithí Casey (Dr Crokes)
11.Bryan Sheehan (St Marys)
12.Donnchadh Walsh (Cromane)
13.Barry John Keane (Kerins O'Rahillys)
14.Stephen O'Brien (Kenmare)
15.James O'Donoghue (Killarney Legion)
Fir Ionaid:
16.Brendan Kealy (Kilcummin)
17.Aidan O'Mahony (Rathmore)
18.Paul Geaney (Dingle)
19.Conor Cox (Listowel Emmets)
20.Brian McGuire (Listowel Emmets)
21.Jack Sherwood (Firies)
22.Michael Geaney (Dingle)
23.Johnny Buckley (Dr Crokes)
24.Pa Kilkenny (Glenbeigh/Glencar)
25.Darran O'Sullivan (Glenbeigh Glencar)
26.Kieran O'Leary (Dr Crokes)
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 07, 2014, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 04, 2014, 11:07:23 PM
In this day and age why are Tyrone so negative. We must defeat their negativity....how ?
Mike are you going down to the match on Sunday?
I say it will be a bit less tense than the last game down there. I hope so anyway
Don't be silly Fuzz, that lad has never been near a game in his life! :P ;)
The continued development of Ronan at 11 is great to see. We've waited a while to see him get a run of games and fingers crossed this is the year.
If we go man-to-man I fear the full back line though I know little of O'Brien.
Kerry by 6.
Quote from: ONeill on March 07, 2014, 10:22:13 PM
The continued development of Ronan at 11 is great to see. We've waited a while to see him get a run of games and fingers crossed this is the year.
If we go man-to-man I fear the full back line though I know little of O'Brien.
Kerry by 6.
;D You would get points for "yerra" if your fellow county men hadn't already declared victory many times above!
I think Kerry will improve defensively (have to) but I think Throne at 6/5 is a decent bet.
Plenty of quality there Ciarrai_thuaidh, we'll just have to give it a right rattle! ;)
Haven't won in Killarney since 2003 (winning by 1-13 to 0-14), and we all know what unravelled later on in that particular year, not least the gracious-to-a-fault Pat Spillane. :)
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 07, 2014, 10:37:20 PM
Plenty of quality there Ciarrai_thuaidh, we'll just have to give it a right rattle! ;)
Haven't won in Killarney since 2003 (winning by 1-13 to 0-14), and we all know what unravelled later on in that particular year, not least the gracious-to-a-fault Pat Spillane. :)
Now, now Strabane-y..lets not get into Spillane/Brolly level conversation here!
I've a feeling it'll be a decent game, both attacks could dominate, midfield I'd hope we could dominate to an extent although who picks up Sean Kav as always will be crucial. It'll come down to who defends better I'd say.
Also, having Sheehan back to kick frees from 50+ is a boost. I'm sure Morgan will do the same if needed of course.
Safe journey to anyone heading down Sunday anyway.
Where's all the other Kerrymen this week or are they keeping their powder dry for post match.
Wonder will we create as many goal chances this weekend. Would be nice to see Just and Block coming on second half.
McNeice must feel the pressure a bit from the fans.
Will there be autograph requests after this one I wonder.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 07, 2014, 08:51:25 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 07, 2014, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 04, 2014, 11:07:23 PM
In this day and age why are Tyrone so negative. We must defeat their negativity....how ?
Mike are you going down to the match on Sunday?
I say it will be a bit less tense than the last game down there. I hope so anyway
Don't be silly Fuzz, that lad has never been near a game in his life! :P ;)
Sure you thought "football" was just Celtic v Rangers prior to 2003 you Johnny come lately....
Very harsh on McNeice here, I remember quite a few days, especially 2011 when Petey Harte and Matty Donnelly were afforded alot of opportunities to play even in the face of really, really mediocre performances. I remember quite a clamour to drop Matty, and some of it was warranted, but thankfully as everyone here would agree, we prevailed with him. With RON on the 40 there isn't a whole squadron of stand-out candidates for the corner-forward role and McNeice deserves his shot as much as Coney, McAliskey or Penrose.
Give the young lad a break, ya gobshites.
Glad to see McGuigan back in the side, I really rate his play (distribution mostly) and thought from the early matches he'd develop into our 11. RON drove the standard to new heights the last day though and you'd doubt how much he'll feature this year at 11 now but still he'll undoubtedly have a Tyrone jersey for himself in the coming years IMO.
Don't rate McKenna a whole lot but still deserves his shot. Sean was poor the last day, I think this move to MF is to put some fire in his play and get him back to last years standards, can see it working too (it'll kill our fielding though).
McGinley is a top class attacking wing-back and I thought one of the stars of the last 3 matches we played last year, but he's just too poor defensively, especially amongst a floundering defence at the minute, shame really.
Been the guts of 4 years since Justy put in a performance worthy of a top inter-county player. That's very harsh but I feel it's true, I really worry his best days are behind him and he's not the white knight you lads think he's gonna be now that he's fit. In my naivety I thought Tierney was gonna be our defensive saving grace, but he's not, still he gets stuck in so fair fcuks to him. Morgan is excellent, be gutted to see him get injured again, can we put a motion to congress; he has to play nets for the junior b's from now on?
If I'm not mistaken there were people calling for mattie Donnelly to be dropped on here in the early part of last year. I do think McNeice is a decent footballer but really hasnt did it at county senior level yet Sometimes it takes players a good while to build up their confidence at the level so maybe his best days are ahead of him.
Will be interesting to see where he players mcguigan tomorrow. I wonder if there's a possibility he'll go to 11 with mattie d or McNeice coming out and ronan oneill going up.
I definitely think this is our strongest defence named of the year so far so hoping for an improvement there even if its not as good as you'd hope. Like others I'd like to see Harte and Mcbride switch.
Some people have said the team is so unsettled and you could only name 7 or 8 starters. I think it's still early enough in the year that its not a huge issue. I also think if everyone was fit most people could make a reasonable guess at 12 or 13 starters.
Kerry by a small bit.
I don't remember any great voume of calls for Mattie to be dropped last or any other year.
It was more a case of where is he? as he voluntarily dropped out of the panel a few years ago for a while if I remember correctly.
PmN may well come good but he has done very very little in a senior shirt up to this point. Would rather see Coney get a start tbh.
I could be wrong but I'm nearly sure people were questioning mattie ds position last year during the earlier league games when he wasn't on top form. Personally I'd have preferred coney to start too.
McNeice started uncertainly again. Good to see him coming out the field to look for work. That miss wouldn't have done his confidence any use though! I see Brian Sheehan is using his lightning pace to avoid the Tyrone markers. Fantastic display of freetaking! Nobody better.
Some super football on what looks a fairly difficult pitch. 35 minutes flew in there!
Enright injured or just getting a roasting?
Maher clean through on goal and fists the ball over the bar. Can't understand why players do this.
Quote from: yellowcard on March 09, 2014, 03:06:39 PM
Maher clean through on goal and fists the ball over the bar. Can't understand why players do this.
Pet hate! Recently heard rumours about u16 development squads practising it! I'd be substituting a young lad for doing that. Always see it as a cowardly option.
For a player like Maher, prob not a bad option; for a forward it's criminal
Tyrone taking another tanking in Killarney.
Kerry up by 7.
James O'Donoghue is the best forward In Ireland
Quote from: Sidney on March 09, 2014, 03:21:12 PM
James O'Donoghue is the best forward In Ireland
+1
Quote from: Sidney on March 09, 2014, 03:21:12 PM
James O'Donoghue is the best forward In Ireland
And he bags himself another goal, right on cue.
This is a serious statement from Kerry.
A serious statement??? In March??? :o
Quote from: Sidney on March 09, 2014, 03:21:12 PM
James O'Donoghue is the best forward In Ireland
Super player alright. Getting better every time I see him. Bit early to say he's the best though!!
Some tanking for Tyrone. O'Donoghue is a class act but how Harte left no4 on him for the whole match beggars belief.
Quote from: Sidney on March 09, 2014, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 09, 2014, 03:21:12 PM
James O'Donoghue is the best forward In Ireland
And he bags himself another goal, right on cue.
This is a serious statement from Kerry.
The statement is - 'We had to win this game or we'd be relegated!' Tyrone played poorly, hit 8 very scoreable second half wides and missed two good goal chances through players who won't feature come summer. Don't be getting carried away now ;)
Well done Kerry though - very important win!!
Kinda comical now.
2 very poor performances by tyrone in a week..good job not going to cork next..
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 09, 2014, 03:26:12 PM
A serious statement??? In March??? :o
What would you call beating a team who reached the All-Ireland semi-finals last year by 15 points?
They completely wiped Tyrone out in the second half and showed that they are far from gone. Their midfield options look plentiful, they still have a forward line as good as any in Ireland and are doing a good job of bedding in young players into their defence.
They have to be considered All-Ireland contenders.
Tyrone were awful today, they looked tired..
Thought Kerry benefited from some very biased refereeing decisions, joke! Not that they needed them because they were fantastic in the second half.
Quote from: Onthe40 on March 09, 2014, 03:35:03 PM
2 very poor performances by tyrone in a week..good job not going to cork next..
Next time Tyrone play Kerry they won't have 10 lads who've never played in Kilarney on the team! The odd tanking does no harm whatsoever. I'd say Mickey learned a lot about the development of players like Tierney, McNeice, McKenna, McNabb, McGuigan. Hope he also looks at the half back line. The positional changes for O'Neill and Cavanagh at the start of the second half where key for me. Tyrone looked really weak in the middle third without them.
men against boys there
Tyrone defence has gave up huge scores all year, that's the first time the forwards were held by a tight tough defence . It was bound to catch up with them at some stage
Tyrone will benefit more from this match than they did from getting out of jail last week
Can't think of any benefits from a tanking in Killarney. Only Morgan and Colm Cavanagh emerged with any credit today. O Donoghue gave some display , Tierney will still be chasing shadows on the bus home!
Hard to see past a Cork v Dublin final.
Quote from: sensethetone on March 07, 2014, 07:59:09 AM
m harte told penrose he was as valuable to tyrone as t freeman was to monaghan, he must like value him.
I seem to recall Mickey saying publicly that Penrose could be as important to Tyrone as Freeman was to Monaghan. He never was and that's no slight on him. I know Harte likes Penrose, he is a good player and has done well for Tyrone. My point was simply that he hasn't lost the ability to be a "clinical finisher" as he never was one in the first place. He is worth his place on the panel still but if we are to try and improve on last summer then I think there are others who are potentially better and I'd rather they got a run.
Bad defeat today but the defence was a bit of an accident waiting to happen. Perhaps a thumping like that will see some steps towards addressing the problems at the back.
Or the mighty Rhus.
Quote from: Beantown on March 09, 2014, 03:48:39 PM
Can't think of any benefits from a tanking in Killarney. Only Morgan and Colm Cavanagh emerged with any credit today. O Donoghue gave some display , Tierney will still be chasing shadows on the bus home!
Absolutely not fair to highlight the performance of any of the full back line. Tyrone's problems all stemmed from the middle third of the pitch. The majority of the scores came as a result of primary possession being won by Kerry and huge holes being punched through our half back line as we don't have a centre half back. Please watch the game carefully. O'Donoghue received all his possession on the overlap and Tierney could do little about it. Mickey could clearly see this and that's why he perservered with the full back line throughout and tinkered in the middle of the field.
A different ref and we'd have had that game with a bit to spare ;-).
Horrible day at the office, we badly need Gormley and Joe back in there. More holes in our half back line than Rab C Nesbitt's vest. Major work still needed, rightly crushes any early season ideas of grandeur. Maybe not a bad thing.
O'Donoghue has some burst of acceleration on the turn over the first 10 yards.
Allows him to cut in front of the defender forcing him to either give away the free or let him go.
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2014, 04:12:21 PM
A different ref and we'd have had that game with a bit to spare ;-).
Horrible day at the office, we badly need Gormley and Joe back in there. More holes in our half back line than Rab C Nesbitt's vest. Major work still needed, rightly crushes any early season ideas of grandeur. Maybe not a bad thing.
Last years league hype did Tyrone no favours last year.
Doen to earth with a bang.
Back to the drawing board now.
Quote from: CD on March 09, 2014, 04:02:51 PM
Quote from: Beantown on March 09, 2014, 03:48:39 PM
Can't think of any benefits from a tanking in Killarney. Only Morgan and Colm Cavanagh emerged with any credit today. O Donoghue gave some display , Tierney will still be chasing shadows on the bus home!
Absolutely not fair to highlight the performance of any of the full back line. Tyrone's problems all stemmed from the middle third of the pitch. The majority of the scores came as a result of primary possession being won by Kerry and huge holes being punched through our half back line as we don't have a centre half back. Please watch the game carefully. O'Donoghue received all his possession on the overlap and Tierney could do little about it. Mickey could clearly see this and that's why he perservered with the full back line throughout and tinkered in the middle of the field.
Tierney got roasted, get over it! However he wasn't the only one, the full back line was left hung out to dry and got taken to the cleaners... I have been singing tierneys praises the past couple of years from I seen him play u21's, but he had a mare today..
I agree that we got cleaned out in the middle third but that's nothing we didn't see before. If everyone tried as hard as Colm Cavanagh the result may have been different
Quote from: Beantown on March 09, 2014, 04:22:29 PM
Quote from: CD on March 09, 2014, 04:02:51 PM
Quote from: Beantown on March 09, 2014, 03:48:39 PM
Can't think of any benefits from a tanking in Killarney. Only Morgan and Colm Cavanagh emerged with any credit today. O Donoghue gave some display , Tierney will still be chasing shadows on the bus home!
Absolutely not fair to highlight the performance of any of the full back line. Tyrone's problems all stemmed from the middle third of the pitch. The majority of the scores came as a result of primary possession being won by Kerry and huge holes being punched through our half back line as we don't have a centre half back. Please watch the game carefully. O'Donoghue received all his possession on the overlap and Tierney could do little about it. Mickey could clearly see this and that's why he perservered with the full back line throughout and tinkered in the middle of the field.
Tierney got roasted, get over it! However he wasn't the only one, the full back line was left hung out to dry and got taken to the cleaners... I have been singing tierneys praises the past couple of years from I seen him play u21's, but he had a mare today..
I agree that we got cleaned out in the middle third but that's nothing we didn't see before. If everyone tried as hard as Colm Cavanagh the result may have been different
Which?
Ach a bit of both, it can happen
Quote from: Beantown on March 09, 2014, 04:27:54 PM
Ach a bit of both, it can happen
You're alright Beantown!
As a lad I played most of my football at corner back so I tend to get a bit sensitive when lads in the corner get held accountable for what's going wrong further out the pitch! :D
Quote from: CD on March 09, 2014, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: Beantown on March 09, 2014, 04:27:54 PM
Ach a bit of both, it can happen
You're alright Beantown!
As a lad I played most of my football at corner back so I tend to get a bit sensitive when lads in the corner get held accountable for what's going wrong further out the pitch! :D
I got shoe horned into corner back myself a few times and hated it, >:( preferred to be further out the field 8)
You don't want to be standing in any corner of the pitch when the shit hits the fan.
Quote from: Jinxy on March 09, 2014, 04:39:13 PM
You don't want to be standing in any corner of the pitch when the shit hits the fan.
Very lonely place to be when it all goes pear shaped
The warning signs were there for Tyrone last weekend. Kerry should arrive in Newbridge full of confidence now to face a fragile Kildare.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on March 09, 2014, 05:06:19 PM
The warning signs were there for Tyrone last weekend. Kerry should arrive in Newbridge full of confidence now to face a fragile Kildare.
I know Kildare might be a bit fragile, but will they be any more fragile that the team that west and bet Mayo last year the week after being wallopped by Dublin, or do you think this is different ?
I wouldn't expect a whole lot from the rest of the league to be honest. I don't think we'll beat either Kerry or Derry, who, incidentally, seem to have given Cork a torrid time of it toward the end of the match today.
They were three great Kerry goals. Oh to be able to score like that.
Watched that game and it was entertaining fare.
Kerry have definitely unearthed a few handy players.
Don't really think they are 'done' by any stretch.
On another note, thon No4 for Tyrone today looked like a fella that had won a competition and the prize was a game for Tyrone snrs. :o
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on March 09, 2014, 05:25:31 PM
Watched that game and it was entertaining fare.
Kerry have definitely unearthed a few handy players.
Don't really think they are 'done' by any stretch.
On another note, thon No4 for Tyrone today looked like a fella that had won a competition and the prize was a game for Tyrone snrs. :o
see above ;)
Well done Kerry. Rich men in Tyrone tonight.
When was the last time, if ever, that Tyrone have won in Killarney? Was at a game in Austin Stacks a few years back that we won but can't remember winning in Killarney...
A tired looking Tyrone today. Much like the Cork game last year- a mid campaign dip.
Quote from: inexile on March 09, 2014, 05:14:28 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on March 09, 2014, 05:06:19 PM
The warning signs were there for Tyrone last weekend. Kerry should arrive in Newbridge full of confidence now to face a fragile Kildare.
I know Kildare might be a bit fragile, but will they be any more fragile that the team that west and bet Mayo last year the week after being wallopped by Dublin, or do you think this is different ?
I wouldn't expect a whole lot from the rest of the league to be honest. I don't think we'll beat either Kerry or Derry, who, incidentally, seem to have given Cork a torrid time of it toward the end of the match today.
They were three great Kerry goals. Oh to be able to score like that.
By fragile I mean lacking in self confidence. A few of our backs appear to be very low on confidence at the moment. Hesitant when going for the ball, not backing themselves in the tackle etc. If that happens against Kerry we are in trouble. No better county to find a weakness and then ruthlessly exploit it when they smell blood. James O'Donoghue is the form forward in the country at the moment. He could do serious damage next Sunday.
Gaelic football is an honest game and when ye have only a couple of players who put in a fullsome secomd half display kerry will hockey you. Let's be honest about this. Most teams would beat us on that second half. If we want to compete...It must improve. Let's hope for better the next day.
Quote from: rrhf on March 09, 2014, 10:05:44 PM
Gaelic football is an honest game and when ye have only a couple of players who put in an honest effort kerry will hockey you. That's what happened today and I suspect some have played their last game for Tyrone.
Bit harsh I would have thought ? But you could be right.
Quote from: rrhf on March 09, 2014, 10:05:44 PM
Gaelic football is an honest game and when ye have only a couple of players who put in an honest effort kerry will hockey you. That's what happened today and I suspect some have played their last game for Tyrone.
Your basically suggesting that most of the Tyrone team didn't try a leg??? I watched the game and to the naked eye it didn't look that way at all. Sometimes you are beaten by a superior team which Kerry undoubtedly were in the second half today. To me this Tyrone team lack a few marquee players and simply won't cut it at the very top level. I had thought that Kerry were past it but I would see them as still being a danger come championship, potential last 4 contenders anyway.
Quote from: orangeman on March 09, 2014, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: rrhf on March 09, 2014, 10:05:44 PM
Gaelic football is an honest game and when ye have only a couple of players who put in an honest effort kerry will hockey you. That's what happened today and I suspect some have played their last game for Tyrone.
Bit harsh I would have thought ? But you could be right.
I would say that's possibly right on the money. A lot of this new team are nowhere near the required standard. We have failed to unearth any decent defenders since Joe McMahon. And how long ago was that?..playing Harte at CHB is crazy. Decent teams run right through the middle with no opposition. We also win virtually no break ball.
Anyone know why McBride didn't start?
That was just brutal today, what a waste of a day, from the sublime yesterday with the club under 21s giving their all to the poor effect by many players. So many of them not up to scratch. O' Neill and Sean Cav were truly awful. Mc Guigan is simply not good enough nor is Mc Niece. We have some problem at midfield. Colm Cav the only player who could hold his own, had to bring out Mattie to help, who is not big enough, all because Sean didn't put the work in, but we had nothing on the bench to change it, Gruggan is too small for an inter county midfielder as is Mc Kenna.The question has to be asked why isn't Harte looking for a centre half back. Sure he can play Gromley when he gets fit, but what if he gets injured or doesn't perform due to age old time catching up with him at this level, where is the planning, his nephew is not the answer. Why wasn't PJ Quinn switched to the danger man, he left Tierney on him the entire game, poor fair, if I could see the manager could see it, yet allowed it to continue. Last week we got out of jail, destroyed at midfield again, break ball winners are in serious short supply.
Mattie Donnelly is a great 6 but is needed in a few places.
That was poor today and in many ways it was waiting to happen. The warning signs were there and only the forwards putting up big scores has papered over the defensive weaknesses. There was always going to be a day when our forwards didn't click and we still concede heavily. We appear to have a generation of defenders conditioned to defend in numbers and have never really been exposed one on one. Now, when asked to do that job they just can't adapt and the worst thing is, we don't look like we have anyone in the squad who can adapt to a man to man role in defence. Put simply, we won't threaten the latter stages of the championship unless we put in place a defensive system that suits the players we have - if that means dropping men in front of that full back line then so be it - who gives a rats ass what the media say about negative football? We need to have the development squads in Tyrone working on producing lads who can man mark before changing our system without the having the personnel.
Tyrone actually did ok in the first half, forwards looked handy, then got the opening score of the second half to lead 0-9 to 0-8. Then there were 3 or 4 Tyrone wides in a row and the wheels came off.
Scoreline for the last 30 mins was Kerry 3-7 Tyrone 0-0.
G lads i think its very unfair to single out your own players and say he was crap, he was poor, he not be back, nobody goes out to play intentionality poor or not try, it happens, better saying the team wasn't at the races instead of picking out certain players, if a guy running riot, why does the manager simply change him etc?
I'd say Killarney is possibly the hardest place in the country for Tyrone to come to so I wouldn't worry too much about this young team's display today. It was just one of those days when nothing seemed to go our way-a real good eye-opener for some of the lads as to what it takes to beat the top teams. Thought Conor Clarke impressed today. Peter Harte is a driving force for this team and I actually like to see him break from defence. Col Cav broke a lot of ball around the middle to no avail as the 'Doohers' were non-present.
Think Mattie Donnelly needs a rest-looked laboured. McGuigan/McNiece/O'Neill/McKenna/Tierney will learn from this.
Great fight shown by Kerry for a much deserved and much needed win.
Tyrone have been on a good roll this year, but they have been riding their luck recently and sometimes a hammering is a good thing in the long run. It is a very young team and at this stage of their development you are not going to get consistently great performances week in week out without blips.
Looking forward to hear what the beard has to say about this performance. No interview on teamtalkmag etc
Id like to see him take responsibility for it in the same manner Paul Grimley stood up & accepted sole responsibility after their drubbing earlier in the year.
Here you are - no holds barred
UPDATED 10 MARCH 2014 07:41 AM
This time there was no emotion, no players raising their fists to the home faithful on the terraces, none of the faithful taking photos of the final scoreboard for posterity.
When these sides last met in Killarney on a beautiful summer's day in July 2012 for a third-round qualifier, Kerry collectively let their feelings get the better of them on the back of a 10-point victory, their first over a Mickey Harte-managed side in a championship game.
League matches don't trigger those feelings however, not even when the gap stretches to 15 and the performance is more satisfying and welcome in the context of Kerry's three successive losses in the campaign and Colm Cooper's season-ending injury.
For all the bad blood between them in the past, this latest instalment failed to produce a card of any hue which is a further reflection of the impact of the new rules as much as a cooling of the rivalry.
When has that happened in any of the 11 meetings (eight league, three championship) since that landmark 2003 All-Ireland semi-final?
So Eamon Fitzmaurice pitched quickly for some sobriety, stitching regular reminders into his post-match analysis of the journey ahead of them to Newbridge next weekend.
Mickey Harte wasn't so reserved, describing this defeat in the starkest possible terms.
Harte's analysis of any situation has never failed to carry a perspective and that makes his overview on this latest trip to Killarney all the more damning of the visitors' performance.
In his 23 years as an inter-county manager none of his Tyrone teams – minor, U-21 or senior – had never experienced a defeat like it.
Nor had he ever witnessed a second half as bad from them.
"In all my time dealing with Tyrone teams, I've never, ever had a second half like that. In fact, that's the biggest defeat they've ever had, since minors, U-21s or anything else," he suggested.
"It's just not good enough, simple as that, and it's not a performance that anyone could be proud of."
Was it poor execution, poor effort even from a team that scored the first point of the second half through substitute Ciaran McGinley but didn't force the umpires to reach for the flags again as Kerry ran in an impressive and unanswered 3-7?
"I think one thing led to the other," admitted a perplexed manager.
"It's devastating. It's not what you expect from players in a Tyrone jersey. You can't point the finger at any single individual. Collectively we were just so poor as to be unrecognisable," said Harte.
"We have a long hard road and hill to climb now if we are going to regain some of the respect that we earned for ourselves in the last 10 or 12 years."
Harte even expressed sympathy to the Tyrone supporters who had made the long journey to Killarney.
MASKED
He sensed flaws in Newbridge last week that were masked by their two-goal steal at the end to nick the points from Kildare.
"You can't expect to concede 1-21 and be a good team. We weren't a good team, but we got two points and we didn't refuse them. We knew we had difficulties in our team, and they certainly were highlighted there today again."
Tyrone's defence was ragged. They have ditched the comfort of a sweeper and a heavy defensive orientation that has served them so well in the past to align themselves with the game's new philosophy but this may prompt a rethink.
For Fitzmaurice, there will be quiet personal satisfaction that players he has been expressing his faith in for the last 14 months have finally delivered a performance he always sensed they were capable of.
"At times I have been frustrated, the other lads were frustrated because we know what the lads are capable of and I think that was more of a true reflection of where a lot of them are," he reflected.
Kerry's underage record has been relatively poor over the last few years but that clearly hasn't stalled the production lines completely.
Maybe the stellar cast of the last decade can never be recreated but this was evidence that there is material there to work with.
Paul Murphy and Fionn Fitzgerald were magnificent under breaking ball in defence, Pa Kilkenny too when he came in for Shane Enright late in the first half. David Moran had a towering second half at midfield amidst signs that he is getting his game back and building on the promise he has as a footballer after the two-and-a-half-year absence he endured through injury that ended last summer.
Up front, James O'Donoghue hinted strongly that he is ready to take his game to the next level in Cooper's absence with a sublime second-half hat-trick of goals.
But throughout the first half his willingness to drop the shoulder and run at the Tyrone defence were a portent for things to come.
Harte's reluctance to switch Barry Tierney off him, when those warning sings were flashing, proved costly in the end.
But maybe the most pleasing aspect from a Kerry point of view was the return of Bryan Sheehan who has struggled with fitness for the last 12 months.
Sheehan provides a range and accuracy off the ground that can match anyone in the game and in the first half especially, the 4,950 crowed were treated to an exhibition of place-kicking with Sheehan driving over four – one from 55 metres – and Niall Morgan converting two from 45 and 40 metres respectively.
He left on 64 minutes to the same rapturous reception that Darran O'Sullivan had received on his arrival 13 minutes earlier.
The sides were level at the break, 0-8 each, but Kerry may well have been ahead at that stage were it not for two great saves by Morgan to thwart Peter Crowley and O'Donoghue in the opening minutes.
O'Donoghue made no mistake on 47 minutes for his first goal, taking advantage of Sheehan's clever break from a Kieran O'Leary delivery.
They had stretched their advantage to 1-15 to 0-9 by the time Moran had placed O'Donoghue perfectly on 59 minutes for his second goal of the game and before squeezing his third a la Canavan in the 2005 All-Ireland final out of Morgan's reach as the clock ran down.
Phew, that was close!
After having gone in at the break somewhat unlucky not be leading by a point or two perhaps, sense prevailed after the break with the manager's bollocking and switches, leading to the heavy loss that sets Kerry up beautifully for an ambush under a higher sun later in the year. Perfect!
:P ;)
That was a painful second half, a reality check, and some serious reappraising needed; the collective heads seem to drop with over 20 minutes remaining on the clock, which is always going to be suicidal against Kerry in Killarney. Only one way to go now - sideways it seems!
Mc Bride has the flu, that's why he didn't start.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 10, 2014, 10:01:48 AM
Phew, that was close!
After having gone in at the break somewhat unlucky not be leading by a point or two perhaps, sense prevailed after the break with the manager's bollocking and switches, leading to the heavy loss that sets Kerry up beautifully for an ambush under a higher sun later in the year. Perfect!
:P ;)
That was a painful second half, a reality check, and some serious reappraising needed; the collective heads seem to drop with over 20 minutes remaining on the clock, which is always going to be suicidal against Kerry in Killarney. Only one way to go now - sideways it seems!
Mc Bride has the flu, that's why he didn't start.
Danny will be mighty relieved he had the flu. He picked a great day for it on reflection.
Back to the sweeper system it is then lads...
Quote from: God14 on March 10, 2014, 10:06:50 AM
Back to the sweeper system it is then lads...
A good big yard brush or two.
To be fair, not many teams have forwards like Kerry who with their tails up can weak havoc.
Kerry lost the previous 3 games but were unlucky not to win them all had things gone their way.
Quote from: God14 on March 10, 2014, 10:06:50 AM
Back to the sweeper system it is then lads...
Hard to argue with that at this particular juncture. All very well going man for man and a shoot-out, but that can only when you're actually scoring the scorables. We may just not have the players for such a potentially kamikaze approach.
The Examiner
Mickey not making any excuses. Fair play to him.
This was a game of one half. Kerry beat Tyrone by 3-7 to 0-1 over the closing 35 minutes to turn what had been a wholly engaging and perfectly level encounter into the worst defeat of Mickey Harte's 13 seasons in charge.
It was like watching a tug-of-war match where the tape didn't move an inch for ages before one side suddenly let go of the rope. Tyrone were left on their arses, Kerry shrugged with a sort of baffled delight.
James O'Donoghue helped himself to a second-half hat-trick. Bryan Sheehan, whose frees were the backbone of Kerry's eight first-half points, knocked over another three to twist the knife.
Paul Geaney came off the bench to mark a game which had started with a minute's silence for his mother – whose funeral was last Tuesday – with a point of his own and a clever pass for O'Donoghue's final goal. And all the while, Tyrone were nowhere to be seen.
"I don't think you could call it a bad day at the office," said a visibly seething Harte afterwards. "It was something much worse than that. That's a dreadful performance from our team. We were in the game at half-time and I didn't anticipate that we wouldn't be in it right until the end. When Kerry got their first goal and tagged on a few points it was always going to be a big challenge for us. But in all the time I've been dealing with Tyrone teams, I've never ever had a second half like that.
"And it's just not good enough, simple as that. It's just not a performance that anyone would be proud of. We can count our lucky blessings that we got the two points last week because if we didn't and we put in that kind of performance there, we would be definitely relegation candidates. Not that we're not that already.
Hard road
"It's devastating. It's just not what you expect from players in a Tyrone jersey. Collectively we were just so poor as to be unrecognisable. We have a long hard road and a hill to climb now if we're going to regain some of the respect that we've earned over the past 10 or 12 years. It's just a performance that will have to be forgotten as best we can but it will never be forgotten because it will always be there."
Quiet day on here
Quote from: Man Marker on March 10, 2014, 12:54:30 PM
Quiet day on here
Aye, I was half expecting a lynchin match this morning. Kinda glad a lot of fellas kept the powder dry.
Horses for courses lads. No point going toe to toe with the big guns if we don't have the talent to back it up. Most of Tyrone's back line simply do not have the ability to mark their man out of a game and are easily exposed when the lack of MF possession and breaking ball being won results in the ball coming back at them time and time again.
Nobody blaming Morgan for the goals? I thought he was very poor.
Super freetaker though.
Quote from: Hound on March 10, 2014, 04:09:37 PM
Nobody blaming Morgan for the goals? I thought he was very poor.
Super freetaker though.
Pulled off a couple of great saves in the first 15mins...
Quote from: Hound on March 10, 2014, 04:09:37 PM
Nobody blaming Morgan for the goals? I thought he was very poor.
Super freetaker though.
There's no problem with Morgan. Maybe with the last goal his awareness wasn't spot on but he prevented an unmerciful hammering.
Can the McMahons and Gormley tighten things up...possibly...but only if Joe goes sweeper. We cannot go man-to-man.
I know this is an old chestnut, but is this not the reason Mickey Harte brought in a sweeper system in the first place, his defenders, even some which are highly rated from the past were never exposed to a lack of cover, and never tried to go man for man against Kerry yesteryear?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 10, 2014, 04:47:25 PM
I know this is an old chestnut, but is this not the reason Mickey Harte brought in a sweeper system in the first place, his defenders, even some which are highly rated from the past were never exposed to a lack of cover, and never tried to go man for man against Kerry yesteryear?
Finally, someone from Tyrone admits the truth !
now now Mike i aint a Tyrone man, so u have to find that backing from someone else,
Quote from: ONeill on March 10, 2014, 04:22:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 10, 2014, 04:09:37 PM
Nobody blaming Morgan for the goals? I thought he was very poor.
Super freetaker though.
There's no problem with Morgan. Maybe with the last goal his awareness wasn't spot on but he prevented an unmerciful hammering.
Can the McMahons and Gormley tighten things up...possibly...but only if Joe goes sweeper. We cannot go man-to-man.
I think Morgan is a good keeper but It would have been more difficult for him to get out of the way of the first two shots on goal inside the first 15mins. Same for the save the Kerry keeper made in the first half.
The second Kerry goal took a deflection and it looks like he gambled on J O'D shooting across him for the third.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 10, 2014, 06:57:52 PM
now now Mike i aint a Tyrone man, so u have to find that backing from someone else,
Does it matter ? We know you lads stick together. When Ulster comments on Kerry in victory then so should Ulster comment on Kerry in defeat.
Seems fair enough.
Maybe the lovely swarm will make a comeback.
Quote from: Armamike on March 10, 2014, 09:53:01 PM
Maybe the lovely swarm will make a comeback.
It's only when it's gone that you realise how much you miss it! :(
Mickey harte has had long enough time to sort out our defensive problems
Which have been glaring to the dogs in the street for months,
What the hell is going in training for the past three months?
We are all too eager to pick scapegoats in the fbl, they have been left out to dry, by every other line on that team.
We need to get back to basis with work rate and players covering back and closing down the runners
And working for each other,
Have to say I felt sorry for Tierney yesterday. It could wreck the lads confidence getting cleaned out like that on national TV and the likes of Brolly highlighting it on twitter. He'll need to be a real strong character to come back from something like that. Dunno what Harte was at :-\
Westmeath in for a trimming as Tyrone's pride is hurt. Some lads season or maybe career over after yesterday. The county champions didn't have a player on the pitch. What does Harte have against Colm Doris, a proven ball winner in the middle third. Lads it's as plain as the nose of your face.
Quote from: kickingmule on March 10, 2014, 10:42:15 PM
Mickey harte has had long enough time to sort out our defensive problems
Which have been glaring to the dogs in the street for months,
What the hell is going in training for the past three months?
We are all too eager to pick scapegoats in the fbl, they have been left out to dry, by every other line on that team.
We need to get back to basis with work rate and players covering back and closing down the runners
And working for each other,
Is this a poem?
Nah, it's inspired by a Canned Heat song called "Lets Work Together"
"Together we'll stand
Divided we'll fall
Come on now, people
Let's get on the ball
And work together
Come on, come on
Let's work together"
Some lads being incredibly harsh on Morgan here. The first goal he had no chance with and the second was a deflection right in front of him that would been impossible to second guess. The third was the only one that could be slightly questioned and even that is debatable as O'Donaghue placed it along thr ground and very wide. Reminded me of Canavan's goal in the '05 final.
He made two great saves and scored two free kicks. IMO only himself and Colm came out of that game with any credit.
Sean hasn't got going this year at all. Was anonymous the first half and his radar was miles off in tbe second. Hopefully we'll get a stormer from him this weekend.
What's the chances of Conor being fit? Our defence is lost without his marshaling.
Finally, someone mentioned Clonoe above. Clonoe men tell us that Doris isn't interested in county football. Dan McNulty was injured and only coming back with the club, I think we'll not see him to next year. Pj Lavery looked good but a bit light for county football at the moment. Neither of these lads would have helped yesterday.
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 11, 2014, 01:16:51 AM
Some lads being incredibly harsh on Morgan here. The first goal he had no chance with and the second was a deflection right in front of him that would been impossible to second guess. The third was the only one that could be slightly questioned and even that is debatable as O'Donaghue placed it along thr ground and very wide. Reminded me of Canavan's goal in the '05 final.
He made two great saves and scored two free kicks. IMO only himself and Colm came out of that game with any credit.
Sean hasn't got going this year at all. Was anonymous the first half and his radar was miles off in tbe second. Hopefully we'll get a stormer from him this weekend.
What's the chances of Conor being fit? Our defence is lost without his marshaling.
Finally, someone mentioned Clonoe above. Clonoe men tell us that Doris isn't interested in county football. Dan McNulty was injured and only coming back with the club, I think we'll not see him to next year. Pj Lavery looked good but a bit light for county football at the moment. Neither of these lads would have helped yesterday.
Tyrone are rebuilding. Still in transition.
Some lads on here are incredibly harsh on players full stop.
Why did McBride not start? Why have we accepted (seemingly for the past 10 years) the midfield situation, which has led to many a comment like 'its ok, we never win any ball in midfield anyway' over the past 10 years? Why has nothing been done about it? As for Sean Cavanagh, the man has only played a few games, it will take months for him to get back to his best.
Some final thoughts on Sunday
* Leaving a young developing rookie on O'Donoghue for the full 70mins was madness by the management. What impact will that have on the young lads development? I cannot for the life of me think what was going on in Hartes head there. Utter madness.
* Continued selection of a few players regardless of form. Was McAliskey injured? I don't see how McNiece in particular is in ahead of him no matter what angle I try and look at it.
* Substitution of McNabb - he is without question one of our best defenders. That's 3 times this year I can recall now where he has been subbed at half time. Whats the story, is it injury? His replacement maybe offers more going forward, but doesn't offer anywhere near the same defensive resolve. If McNabb is only fit for 35 mins then maybe finish with him on the field rather than start.
* Sticking Ronan O'Neill into the full forward line has to be questioned. He has been much more effective in the CHF position for College & County this year
* Switching Mattie Donnelly & Sean Cavanagh at half time with hindsight was catastrophic. Mattie not physical enough for Midfield & Sean wasn't mobile enough in the forwards
* Kick out strategy has been an issue now for as long as I can remember. Has it been discussed around Garvaghy at all? There is no evidence of any plan or strategy to date to rectify.
* Breaking ball - I am hoping that perhaps the players had a big week of heavy training, and perhaps that may shed some light on their perceived fatigue? We simply did not get the number of bodies in the correct zones to be able to pick up the dirty ball. However this was evident against Derry & Kildare as well so it shows signs of a bigger problem.
* Cathal McCarron is missed.
* Serious problems persist in the full back line. Its only March. I would like to see the management think outside of the box for a change & have another look at Dean McNally (Kildress) Not long back from a very serious injury yet had a good sigerson campaign, and a better man marking corner back than some of those options currently available
* I expect Mickey to name the exact same starting 15 for Westmeath. His mind games are easily read nowadays.
Despite that mauling, I still think we have a panel of players capable of mounting a serious charge for Sam. However management have a lot of issues to address.
Our full back line is poor but wasn't helped by Kerry's dominance around the middle third and poor tracking back of our players out the field. Currently we don't seem to have enough players with a bit of fight in them. I don't think are kick out policy is working. We're kicking to the wings with around a third of them going over the sideline. The one's that don't are hitting players isolated who are fit to win the ball in the air. One kickout on Sunday was hit at Mark Donnelly who was up against someone 6 foot plus and 2 spare Kerry men beside him for the breaks - no excuse for that on your own kickout.
I would rather see us kick the ball down middle as far as we can and get 3 or 4 men around the Cavanagh's to pick up breaks. We're not getting out caught that much. Currently no one is getting in for the breaks at all - its crazy. If we crowded the middle I think we'd come a lot closer to breaking even. Also our new attacking policy will only work if we really push hard up the pitch and get the pressure on which we're not doing. Nothing went write on Sunday and would hope not to see us lie down like that for the rest of the year.
Kerry give Tyrone a trimming in Killarney after Kerry get off to a bad start in the league and are fighting for their division 1 survival.
No big deal. The same management team that presided over last Sunday's loss were at the helm for the previous 8 games in which Tyrone were unbeaten.
Tyrone will get back up on the wagon again on Sunday and all will be well again.
No panic.
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 11, 2014, 01:16:51 AM
Some lads being incredibly harsh on Morgan here. The first goal he had no chance with and the second was a deflection right in front of him that would been impossible to second guess. The third was the only one that could be slightly questioned and even that is debatable as O'Donaghue placed it along thr ground and very wide. Reminded me of Canavan's goal in the '05 final.
He made two great saves and scored two free kicks. IMO only himself and Colm came out of that game with any credit.
Sean hasn't got going this year at all. Was anonymous the first half and his radar was miles off in tbe second. Hopefully we'll get a stormer from him this weekend.
What's the chances of Conor being fit? Our defence is lost without his marshaling.
Finally, someone mentioned Clonoe above. Clonoe men tell us that Doris isn't interested in county football. Dan McNulty was injured and only coming back with the club, I think we'll not see him to next year. Pj Lavery looked good but a bit light for county football at the moment. Neither of these lads would have helped yesterday.
Doris hasn't been asked or approached in 5 years, the last time he was asked he went and was messed about, with 10 mins at the end of two Mc kenna Cup games. That I could understand cause at that time Mickey had his team and players that were successful, but things have changed big time and any body with a wit of knowledge about football would know that Doris would only improve an area we are weak in. PJ Lavery has never been played in the position that he came to everyone's attention i.e. wing half back, Harte has played him at wing half forward, and finally Mc Aliskey, found out that there was nothing wrong with him, he has scored two points from play in every game he has started for Tyrone this year. You may think I am over thinking the pudding, but it doesn't make a dot of sense to me.
Fair enough KYMI. Should have added that Doris was messed about and appears not to be interested. Any idea what he would say if he was asked back? Or has that ship sailed?
What age is Dorris? Is he not 32 or something? I can't see him being any big saviour at this stage, especially if he doesn't want to play.
PJ Lavery is a good player but is very small. Given he struggled physically against Cavan in the forwards I'm not sure if he's the man to help tighten up the half back line.
McAliskey scored 2 points against Kildare but didn't look fit enough to chase back which is understandable given he was injured in pre season. As his fitness improves he may well get back in the team. Clonoe are a very good all round team but I don't think a lack of their players is what the problem is.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 11, 2014, 10:55:37 AM
What age is Dorris? Is he not 32 or something? I can't see him being any big saviour at this stage, especially if he doesn't want to play.
PJ Lavery is a good player but is very small. Given he struggled physically against Cavan in the forwards I'm not sure if he's the man to help tighten up the half back line.
McAliskey scored 2 points against Kildare but didn't look fit enough to chase back which is understandable given he was injured in pre season. As his fitness improves he may well get back in the team. Clonoe are a very good all round team but I don't think a lack of their players is what the problem is.
Doris is 28, Lavery is the same size as Davy Harte
Quote from: God14 on March 11, 2014, 08:35:51 AM
Some final thoughts on Sunday
* Leaving a young developing rookie on O'Donoghue for the full 70mins was madness by the management. What impact will that have on the young lads development? I cannot for the life of me think what was going on in Hartes head there. Utter madness.
* Continued selection of a few players regardless of form. Was McAliskey injured? I don't see how McNiece in particular is in ahead of him no matter what angle I try and look at it.
* Substitution of McNabb - he is without question one of our best defenders. That's 3 times this year I can recall now where he has been subbed at half time. Whats the story, is it injury? His replacement maybe offers more going forward, but doesn't offer anywhere near the same defensive resolve. If McNabb is only fit for 35 mins then maybe finish with him on the field rather than start.
* Sticking Ronan O'Neill into the full forward line has to be questioned. He has been much more effective in the CHF position for College & County this year
* Switching Mattie Donnelly & Sean Cavanagh at half time with hindsight was catastrophic. Mattie not physical enough for Midfield & Sean wasn't mobile enough in the forwards
* Kick out strategy has been an issue now for as long as I can remember. Has it been discussed around Garvaghy at all? There is no evidence of any plan or strategy to date to rectify.
* Breaking ball - I am hoping that perhaps the players had a big week of heavy training, and perhaps that may shed some light on their perceived fatigue? We simply did not get the number of bodies in the correct zones to be able to pick up the dirty ball. However this was evident against Derry & Kildare as well so it shows signs of a bigger problem.
* Cathal McCarron is missed.
* Serious problems persist in the full back line. Its only March. I would like to see the management think outside of the box for a change & have another look at Dean McNally (Kildress) Not long back from a very serious injury yet had a good sigerson campaign, and a better man marking corner back than some of those options currently available
* I expect Mickey to name the exact same starting 15 for Westmeath. His mind games are easily read nowadays.
Despite that mauling, I still think we have a panel of players capable of mounting a serious charge for Sam. However management have a lot of issues to address.
Although I agree with alot of what your saying here, it is early days and Mickey is still trying and testing things. I'd be fairly sure that Mickey wouldnt leave Tierney on O'Donoghue that long in a championship match. However, I am struggling to work out who would have done a better job given the capitulation at midfield and the wide open spaces that having Petey Harte at CHB leaves in the centre of our defence. I think we need Gormely back at 6, sitting in front of the full back line and doubling up on the likes of O'Donoghue and Joe playing CHB from 12.
I would imagine (hope anyhow) that Joey would sit in at CHB come championship. Peter for all.his positives is too lax in the centre and not physical enough to dominate that space.
Its a mystery why (when fit) Justy has not been given a decent run in MF. Surely his size and fielding would offer something we don't have??
Clarke is no FB. He might offer something in MF or in the half back line but he is too slow at FB.
The entire middle 8, bar CC, must work far harder. I couldn't see Ricey or Dooher put up with the current lack of effort in tracking back or competing for dirty ball. Hopefully block will motion ate them a bit.more when back.
Last 4 in 2013 was an over achievement. I think we will be another 2-3 years before we are in a position to challenge.
Is it just me though or do Tyrone seem the team most afraid to get physical? Maybe due to media hype?
We have ignored the need for a competitive MF, creative CHF and man marking backs for too long. Team orders and collective work ethic don't cover the deficiencies any more. We need specialists in these areas.
I have to say I can't believe the amount of people questioning Mickey Harte. We tend to have a spate of these every so often, and it always amuses me. He is in the middle of trying to reboot his team, and is doing a very decent job of it in my opinion. He also has to deal with a rule change which is challenging his defensive ethos and will take some time, but jaysus if any man deserves the benefit of the doubt it's him. I think I remember writing the same thing a few years ago, and maybe a couple of other times.
Mickey Harte took a county by the collar of the neck and dragged it to the pinnacle. Not once, not twice, but thrice. He had exceptional footballers sure, but he helped make them exceptional from his moulding at minor level through to the influence on them at Senior.
He, and his backroom team, have done all this while dealing with unimaginable grief and upset caused by the deaths of Paul McGirr, Cormac McAnallen and of course Michaela.
So to those of you who are implying he's lost it, or he's become predictable or he's mad for doing so and so, I say count your lucky stars you have him, and have a bit of faith in the man and his team. Jaysus we'd kill to have him in Offaly, and so would 20+ other counties in Ireland. Big picture lads, big picture.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 11, 2014, 11:28:49 AM
I have to say I can't believe the amount of people questioning Mickey Harte. We tend to have a spate of these every so often, and it always amuses me. He is in the middle of trying to reboot his team, and is doing a very decent job of it in my opinion. He also has to deal with a rule change which is challenging his defensive ethos and will take some time, but jaysus if any man deserves the benefit of the doubt it's him. I think I remember writing the same thing a few years ago, and maybe a couple of other times.
Mickey Harte took a county by the collar of the neck and dragged it to the pinnacle. Not once, not twice, but thrice. He had exceptional footballers sure, but he helped make them exceptional from his moulding at minor level through to the influence on them at Senior.
He, and his backroom team, have done all this while dealing with unimaginable grief and upset caused by the deaths of Paul McGirr, Cormac McAnallen and of course Michaela.
So to those of you who are implying he's lost it, or he's become predictable or he's mad for doing so and so, I say count your lucky stars you have him, and have a bit of faith in the man and his team. Jaysus we'd kill to have him in Offaly, and so would 20+ other counties in Ireland. Big picture lads, big picture.
I'd echo those sentiments entirely.
Well said AZ, that man has more than earned the benefit of whatever doubts arise.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 11, 2014, 11:28:49 AM
I have to say I can't believe the amount of people questioning Mickey Harte.
The Tymoanies are in shock this week AZ.
Sure they had convinced them selves they'd bate Kerry handy.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 11, 2014, 11:28:49 AM
I have to say I can't believe the amount of people questioning Mickey Harte. We tend to have a spate of these every so often, and it always amuses me. He is in the middle of trying to reboot his team, and is doing a very decent job of it in my opinion. He also has to deal with a rule change which is challenging his defensive ethos and will take some time, but jaysus if any man deserves the benefit of the doubt it's him. I think I remember writing the same thing a few years ago, and maybe a couple of other times.
Mickey Harte took a county by the collar of the neck and dragged it to the pinnacle. Not once, not twice, but thrice. He had exceptional footballers sure, but he helped make them exceptional from his moulding at minor level through to the influence on them at Senior.
He, and his backroom team, have done all this while dealing with unimaginable grief and upset caused by the deaths of Paul McGirr, Cormac McAnallen and of course Michaela.
So to those of you who are implying he's lost it, or he's become predictable or he's mad for doing so and so, I say count your lucky stars you have him, and have a bit of faith in the man and his team. Jaysus we'd kill to have him in Offaly, and so would 20+ other counties in Ireland. Big picture lads, big picture.
Absofrigginglutely. Case in point is Eastmeath, look what has happened there since Boylan left. As you say up north, wise up.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 11, 2014, 11:28:49 AM
I have to say I can't believe the amount of people questioning Mickey Harte. We tend to have a spate of these every so often, and it always amuses me. He is in the middle of trying to reboot his team, and is doing a very decent job of it in my opinion. He also has to deal with a rule change which is challenging his defensive ethos and will take some time, but jaysus if any man deserves the benefit of the doubt it's him. I think I remember writing the same thing a few years ago, and maybe a couple of other times.
Mickey Harte took a county by the collar of the neck and dragged it to the pinnacle. Not once, not twice, but thrice. He had exceptional footballers sure, but he helped make them exceptional from his moulding at minor level through to the influence on them at Senior.
He, and his backroom team, have done all this while dealing with unimaginable grief and upset caused by the deaths of Paul McGirr, Cormac McAnallen and of course Michaela.
So to those of you who are implying he's lost it, or he's become predictable or he's mad for doing so and so, I say count your lucky stars you have him, and have a bit of faith in the man and his team. Jaysus we'd kill to have him in Offaly, and so would 20+ other counties in Ireland. Big picture lads, big picture.
I absolutely agree with the sentiments of what you say and Mickey has earned the right to do whatever he sees fit with the team. However, every so often there is a spate of posters who accuse Tyrone posters of slagging off Mickey Harte. I don't think the majority of Tyrone posters on here are slagging Mickey at all. There is a bit of discussion about what went wrong on Sunday and maybe one or two comments on Harte's decisions but I wouldn't agree that there is widespread slagging of Mickey and his tactics. Everyone has their opinions on what should happen with their county team and on here is one of the best places to express that - I wouldn't call it questioning Mickey though and I don't think, by any stretch of the imagination, that there is a groundswell of opinion against Mickey by the Tyrone lads on here at all! It's an easy accusation to throw and mud sticks here. Also, people cant go throwing up Cormac, Michaela and Paul every time someone questions a decision Mickey makes. That sort of comment helps nobody. Perspective lads, perspective!
what I'm getting at Benny, with regard to that, is that it takes a particularly strong sort of man manager to guide his team through those sort of upheavals. He's not a great manager because Paul McGirr, Cormac McAnallen and Michaela died, he's a great manager because he has guided a group of young men through several issues that most managers would not have been able to deal with or help the squad to deal with.
So in the context of his managerial ability it is fair to say he has demonstrated brilliant man management and group management under extreme duress, which is a brilliant trait for him to have.
Quote from: BennyHarp on March 11, 2014, 12:36:15 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 11, 2014, 11:28:49 AM
I have to say I can't believe the amount of people questioning Mickey Harte. We tend to have a spate of these every so often, and it always amuses me. He is in the middle of trying to reboot his team, and is doing a very decent job of it in my opinion. He also has to deal with a rule change which is challenging his defensive ethos and will take some time, but jaysus if any man deserves the benefit of the doubt it's him. I think I remember writing the same thing a few years ago, and maybe a couple of other times.
Mickey Harte took a county by the collar of the neck and dragged it to the pinnacle. Not once, not twice, but thrice. He had exceptional footballers sure, but he helped make them exceptional from his moulding at minor level through to the influence on them at Senior.
He, and his backroom team, have done all this while dealing with unimaginable grief and upset caused by the deaths of Paul McGirr, Cormac McAnallen and of course Michaela.
So to those of you who are implying he's lost it, or he's become predictable or he's mad for doing so and so, I say count your lucky stars you have him, and have a bit of faith in the man and his team. Jaysus we'd kill to have him in Offaly, and so would 20+ other counties in Ireland. Big picture lads, big picture.
I absolutely agree with the sentiments of what you say and Mickey has earned the right to do whatever he sees fit with the team. However, every so often there is a spate of posters who accuse Tyrone posters of slagging off Mickey Harte. I don't think the majority of Tyrone posters on here are slagging Mickey at all. There is a bit of discussion about what went wrong on Sunday and maybe one or two comments on Harte's decisions but I wouldn't agree that there is widespread slagging of Mickey and his tactics. Everyone has their opinions on what should happen with their county team and on here is one of the best places to express that - I wouldn't call it questioning Mickey though and I don't think, by any stretch of the imagination, that there is a groundswell of opinion against Mickey by the Tyrone lads on here at all! It's an easy accusation to throw and mud sticks here. Also, people cant go throwing up Cormac, Michaela and Paul every time someone questions a decision Mickey makes. That sort of comment helps nobody. Perspective lads, perspective!
Benny spot, I have not read one comment on here that says he should go, some posters just can't read properly and their mind makes up the rest.
I said questioning him. Not that he should go. Or implying that he's mad for doing so and so, or he's lost it. Maybe take your own advice. Anyway, for reference, here are a couple of posts I saw which seem to me to be very quick to jump on or criticise Harte. And as I said, this is not the first time this has happened.
Quoteplaying Harte at CHB is crazy. Decent teams run right through the middle with no opposition
QuoteThe question has to be asked why isn't Harte looking for a centre half back. Sure he can play Gromley when he gets fit, but what if he gets injured or doesn't perform due to age old time catching up with him at this level, where is the planning, his nephew is not the answer. Why wasn't PJ Quinn switched to the danger man, he left Tierney on him the entire game, poor fair, if I could see the manager could see it, yet allowed it to continue.
Quoteif a guy running riot, why does the manager simply change him etc?
QuoteMickey harte has had long enough time to sort out our defensive problems
Which have been glaring to the dogs in the street for months,
What the hell is going in training for the past three months?
We are all too eager to pick scapegoats in the fbl, they have been left out to dry, by every other line on that team.
Quote* Leaving a young developing rookie on O'Donoghue for the full 70mins was madness by the management. What impact will that have on the young lads development? I cannot for the life of me think what was going on in Hartes head there. Utter madness.
* Continued selection of a few players regardless of form. Was McAliskey injured? I don't see how McNiece in particular is in ahead of him no matter what angle I try and look at it.
* Substitution of McNabb - he is without question one of our best defenders. That's 3 times this year I can recall now where he has been subbed at half time. Whats the story, is it injury? His replacement maybe offers more going forward, but doesn't offer anywhere near the same defensive resolve. If McNabb is only fit for 35 mins then maybe finish with him on the field rather than start.
* Sticking Ronan O'Neill into the full forward line has to be questioned. He has been much more effective in the CHF position for College & County this year
* Switching Mattie Donnelly & Sean Cavanagh at half time with hindsight was catastrophic. Mattie not physical enough for Midfield & Sean wasn't mobile enough in the forwards
* Kick out strategy has been an issue now for as long as I can remember. Has it been discussed around Garvaghy at all? There is no evidence of any plan or strategy to date to rectify.
* Breaking ball - I am hoping that perhaps the players had a big week of heavy training, and perhaps that may shed some light on their perceived fatigue? We simply did not get the number of bodies in the correct zones to be able to pick up the dirty ball. However this was evident against Derry & Kildare as well so it shows signs of a bigger problem.
* Cathal McCarron is missed.
* Serious problems persist in the full back line. Its only March. I would like to see the management think outside of the box for a change & have another look at Dean McNally (Kildress) Not long back from a very serious injury yet had a good sigerson campaign, and a better man marking corner back than some of those options currently available
* I expect Mickey to name the exact same starting 15 for Westmeath. His mind games are easily read nowadays.
Surely AZ we are entitled to question decisions etc sure what is the point of signing up to a discussion board if you cant discuss & question a managers decisions?
It was probably my post that you were referring to, and to make it clear I have the utmost respect for the man both as a person & a football manager. We are indeed lucky to have him. There is no one better in our county equipped to do the job. But we all make mistakes & no one is infallible. I stand by the comment that it was madness to leave a rookie on O'Donoghue for the full game.
MH had an opinion on previous Tyrone senior managements & occasionally shared it also!
I don't think this is the place to bring up bereavements and the like AZ & struggle to see what relevance it has to your argument.
Quote from: God14 on March 11, 2014, 01:38:14 PM
Surely AZ we are entitled to question decisions etc sure what is the point of signing up to a discussion board if you cant discuss & question a managers decisions?
It was probably my post that you were referring to, and to make it clear I have the utmost respect for the man both as a person & a football manager. We are indeed lucky to have him. There is no one better in our county equipped to do the job. But we all make mistakes & no one is infallible. I stand by the comment that it was madness to leave a rookie on O'Donoghue for the full game.
MH had an opinion on previous Tyrone senior managements & occasionally shared it also!
I don't think this is the place to bring up bereavements and the like AZ & struggle to see what relevance it has to your argument.
I've already explained why I think Harte's performace after the bereavements NOT THE BEREAVEMENTS THEMSELVES mark him out as a special manager, so I won't labour that point.
Of course you're entitled to question him, as you say it's a discussion board. But I'm also entitled to say that I think ye are blessed to have him, and 'Monday morning quarterbacks' are crazy to me when you take into account his record and his qualities. It's just my opinion as well, obviously, but if ye think Mickey Harte is making crazy decisions, or is not learning, or has had loads of time to sort out the defence and still hasn;t done it, well send him on down to us. We'll jump in the Brosna and wrestle Pike if he tells us to.
People are talking about Harte at centre half back being part of the problem but I don't think he actually spent very long playing there at all. The majority of his time was at wing half back.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 11, 2014, 01:01:53 PM
what I'm getting at Benny, with regard to that, is that it takes a particularly strong sort of man manager to guide his team through those sort of upheavals. He's not a great manager because Paul McGirr, Cormac McAnallen and Michaela died, he's a great manager because he has guided a group of young men through several issues that most managers would not have been able to deal with or help the squad to deal with.
So in the context of his managerial ability it is fair to say he has demonstrated brilliant man management and group management under extreme duress, which is a brilliant trait for him to have.
Yes, I appreciate the sentiment of what you were saying and agree. However, there are certain people who read these sort of remarks and the thought process goes - "thats them Tyrone lads slagging off Mickey again - and after all he's been through!"
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 11, 2014, 02:18:23 PM
People are talking about Harte at centre half back being part of the problem but I don't think he actually spent very long playing there at all. The majority of his time was at wing half back.
That's correct, Mc Nabb was CHB the first half, Ciaran Mc Ginley was CHB the second half, can you believe it. The centre was wide open due to the manager playing an attacking WHB at CHB, that's the long and short of it. Peter Harte at WHB the entire game, and he played well, his natural position.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 11, 2014, 01:23:04 PM
I said questioning him. Not that he should go. Or implying that he's mad for doing so and so, or he's lost it. Maybe take your own advice. Anyway, for reference, here are a couple of posts I saw which seem to me to be very quick to jump on or criticise Harte. And as I said, this is not the first time this has happened.
Quoteplaying Harte at CHB is crazy. Decent teams run right through the middle with no opposition
QuoteThe question has to be asked why isn't Harte looking for a centre half back. Sure he can play Gromley when he gets fit, but what if he gets injured or doesn't perform due to age old time catching up with him at this level, where is the planning, his nephew is not the answer. Why wasn't PJ Quinn switched to the danger man, he left Tierney on him the entire game, poor fair, if I could see the manager could see it, yet allowed it to continue.
Quoteif a guy running riot, why does the manager simply change him etc?
QuoteMickey harte has had long enough time to sort out our defensive problems
Which have been glaring to the dogs in the street for months,
What the hell is going in training for the past three months?
We are all too eager to pick scapegoats in the fbl, they have been left out to dry, by every other line on that team.
Quote* Leaving a young developing rookie on O'Donoghue for the full 70mins was madness by the management. What impact will that have on the young lads development? I cannot for the life of me think what was going on in Hartes head there. Utter madness.
* Continued selection of a few players regardless of form. Was McAliskey injured? I don't see how McNiece in particular is in ahead of him no matter what angle I try and look at it.
* Substitution of McNabb - he is without question one of our best defenders. That's 3 times this year I can recall now where he has been subbed at half time. Whats the story, is it injury? His replacement maybe offers more going forward, but doesn't offer anywhere near the same defensive resolve. If McNabb is only fit for 35 mins then maybe finish with him on the field rather than start.
* Sticking Ronan O'Neill into the full forward line has to be questioned. He has been much more effective in the CHF position for College & County this year
* Switching Mattie Donnelly & Sean Cavanagh at half time with hindsight was catastrophic. Mattie not physical enough for Midfield & Sean wasn't mobile enough in the forwards
* Kick out strategy has been an issue now for as long as I can remember. Has it been discussed around Garvaghy at all? There is no evidence of any plan or strategy to date to rectify.
* Breaking ball - I am hoping that perhaps the players had a big week of heavy training, and perhaps that may shed some light on their perceived fatigue? We simply did not get the number of bodies in the correct zones to be able to pick up the dirty ball. However this was evident against Derry & Kildare as well so it shows signs of a bigger problem.
* Cathal McCarron is missed.
* Serious problems persist in the full back line. Its only March. I would like to see the management think outside of the box for a change & have another look at Dean McNally (Kildress) Not long back from a very serious injury yet had a good sigerson campaign, and a better man marking corner back than some of those options currently available
* I expect Mickey to name the exact same starting 15 for Westmeath. His mind games are easily read nowadays.
I think the first quote is mine AZ and I would point out that I have never called for MH to go. As far as I'm concerned he remains the best option by a long distance and has earned the right to create a new dynasty if he has the will to do it.
As someone who attends almost all of the Tyrone games and has done so for a very long time I do think I am entitled to offer an opinion. I post when things are good, bad or indifferent and don't jump on prevailing bandwagons.
Tyrone have often been much better at MF than they were given credit for but this was also accompanied by one of the best half back/half forward lines in recent times. At the minute we don't win enough primary or secondary possession and the middle of the defence is often left very exposed.
Pete is a great player going forward. He is not, in my opinion, the solution at CHB where he has played most of his matches this year. I appreciate we have often rotated players into CHB to cover whoever is attacking and it may well be that mcNabb, of the new crop, ends up filling this space rather than Pete but in the matches Pete has played there we are often left wide open.
Tyroneman I agree with a lot of what you say. The previous 2 pages have been filled with all loads of dung being talked about Mickey and his decisions. For me, he probably is the best option. But for the people that continually throw out "sure who would do any better" argument, thats a ridiculous way to look at things. My problem with the whole thing is as follows.
Mickey runs the show, top to bottom. In any walk of life this can only be bad. He alone will decide when he packs it in. That is bullshit. Nothing happens of any substance regarding football in the county, without his say so. Again, total BS. He is accountable to nobody but himself. We are the only county in the country that operates this way ( with perhaps the exception of Donegal). I also think, we just dont simply have the players that we had 5 to 8 years ago. I dont like the way we are heading though.... ???
This is real soccer style. Next thing the county board will be paying for the supporters' bus to Cork for the next away match.
TYRONE captain Sean Cavanagh has apologised to the county's supporters who were in Kerry to witness their second-half collapse against the Kingdom last Sunday.
The Ulster men were 15 points adrift at the final whistle in Killarney and the five-time All Star pulled no punches as he described the performance as a "disgrace" and "embarrassing."
"It's not acceptable," he said. "You'd almost need a thesaurus to try and work out negative words to describe it.
"It was a disgrace for anyone standing out there in the second half as a Tyrone footballer. We know we didn't even decide to turn up or decide to even play. I don't know what happened.
"We came out in the second half and we were unbelievably flat. They bossed us about the pitch, bullied us about the pitch. We didn't even put up a whimper of a fight, which was embarrassing.
"Not too many of us have had that happen to them in our club and county careers. I certainly haven't seen too much of it thankfully.
"Mickey Harte's not going to put it right, or Tony Donnelly, or Fergal (McCann – trainer) or Gavin (Devlin) – it's the players ourselves. We'll just have to look deep down and I have no doubt we'll be hurting for the next number of days but luckily this is the league.
"The last time this happened us was in 2012 and we hadn't a chance after it. This time we have a chance and we have to fight back.
"I think Tyrone teams of the past have been good at it and we just have to do it again."
It was the second less-than-impressive performance in a week from the Red Hand, who had a large slice of luck when two late goals helped them to beat Kildare in Newbridge.
"It's just embarrassing and I feel so sorry for all the good Tyrone supporters who went down there and had to sit and watch after travelling for five and six hours," added Cavanagh.
"It's certainly not good enough and, as players, we have to take responsibility and apologise for it.
"We weren't putting in challenges, we weren't trying to win break-ball. They were strolling through the centre of our defence and they were first to every ball all over the pitch.
"We didn't even try. In the past you would maybe try and start a bit of a physical battle or something to try and spice things up. That's the most disappointing thing, that we just lay down and just let them waltz through and to be beaten, whatever it was in the second half, it was a cricket score.
"It just doesn't sit well to be honest as players and at the minute we are probably shell-shocked. We have to work out what's going on and fix it very quickly."
Winless Westmeath visit Omagh on Sunday and Cavanagh has challenged his team-mates to deliver two crucial points as they look to keep their challenge for a league semi-final spot alive.
"There's an onus on us as players to stand up and fight back and that starts with a massive game now next Sunday because, all of a sudden, from looking at potentially being in the semi-finals, we could be looking now at the other end of the table very, very quickly.
"We have to treat next week's game like a championship game."
It sounded like a pretty honest assessment of what happened to me.
Brutally honest from Seán Cav, and accurate (article above from the Irish Independent).
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 12, 2014, 10:41:52 AM
Brutally honest from Seán Cav, and accurate (article above from the Irish Independent).
Poor Westmeath will get the backlash in the long run this will help Tyrone
Quote from: johnpower on March 13, 2014, 11:45:12 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 12, 2014, 10:41:52 AM
Brutally honest from Seán Cav, and accurate (article above from the Irish Independent).
Poor Westmeath will get the backlash in the long run this will help Tyrone
I dunno, Tyrone are naturally very negative. After the Kerry defeat I think they will retreat back into their shell and go ultra defensive so Westmeath will have a chance if they are anyway positive at all.
Yeah, we were so negative in 2003, 2005 and 2008 that it's a wonder we didn't win by minus numbers