Ukraine? Whats going on there? The democratically elected president ousted by minority party protesters backed by the EU and america when he decided to maintain ties with russia instead of blindly joining the united states of germany and france? Of course the EU are the goodies in this equation even though some of the minority parties in ukraine are openly nazi in ethos anti black and anti semetic but as long as they are anti russian who cares? Lets not forget only a few years ago all of our new eastern european friends had nuclear weapons pointed at us and the ability to be climbing up the cliffs of dover with conventional forces inside 36 hours of crossing the iron curtain such was thier strenght. So is our eagerness here in the west to embrace all countries ex warsaw pact borne out of good neighbourness or fear of our recent past?
And I thought the russians were our buddies now and china were the baddies? I cant keep up
Quote from: lawnseed on February 23, 2014, 12:15:00 PM
Ukraine? Whats going on there? The democratically elected president ousted by minority party protesters backed by the EU and america when he decided to maintain ties with russia instead of blindly joining the united states of germany and france? Of course the EU are the goodies in this equation even though some of the minority parties in ukraine are openly nazi in ethos anti black and anti semetic but as long as they are anti russian who cares? Lets not forget only a few years ago all of our new eastern european friends had nuclear weapons pointed at us and the ability to be climbing up the cliffs of dover with conventional forces inside 36 hours of crossing the iron curtain such was thier strenght. So is our eagerness here in the west to embrace all countries ex warsaw pact borne out of good neighbourness or fear of our recent past?
And I thought the russians were our buddies now and china were the baddies? I cant keep up
Something related to the euro economic crisis I think. Ukraine is quite fragile. Media never give a decent context. Two sides hate each other but why? Same in central african republic.
Quote from: lawnseed on February 23, 2014, 12:15:00 PM
Ukraine? Whats going on there? The democratically elected president ousted by minority party protesters backed by the EU and america when he decided to maintain ties with russia instead of blindly joining the united states of germany and france? Of course the EU are the goodies in this equation even though some of the minority parties in ukraine are openly nazi in ethos anti black and anti semetic but as long as they are anti russian who cares? Lets not forget only a few years ago all of our new eastern european friends had nuclear weapons pointed at us and the ability to be climbing up the cliffs of dover with conventional forces inside 36 hours of crossing the iron curtain such was thier strenght. So is our eagerness here in the west to embrace all countries ex warsaw pact borne out of good neighbourness or fear of our recent past?
And I thought the russians were our buddies now and china were the baddies? I cant keep up
It's a 'dungout' - you should be delighted.
The President of Ukraine was democratically elected. He has now been impeached by the parliament, which is also a democratic procedure and the outcome will be a new election in the near future.
Quote
I cant keep up
That much is obvious.
When you see the warmonger John McCain in the middle of the protesters, then its time to smell a rat
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/john-mccain-ukraine-protests-support-just-cause
Quote from: give her dixie on February 23, 2014, 02:27:07 PM
When you see the warmonger John McCain in the middle of the protesters, then its time to smell a rat
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/john-mccain-ukraine-protests-support-just-cause
Thats exactly what I thought. Whats mccain doing supporting nazis?
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2014, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 23, 2014, 12:15:00 PM
Ukraine? Whats going on there? The democratically elected president ousted by minority party protesters backed by the EU and america when he decided to maintain ties with russia instead of blindly joining the united states of germany and france? Of course the EU are the goodies in this equation even though some of the minority parties in ukraine are openly nazi in ethos anti black and anti semetic but as long as they are anti russian who cares? Lets not forget only a few years ago all of our new eastern european friends had nuclear weapons pointed at us and the ability to be climbing up the cliffs of dover with conventional forces inside 36 hours of crossing the iron curtain such was thier strenght. So is our eagerness here in the west to embrace all countries ex warsaw pact borne out of good neighbourness or fear of our recent past?
And I thought the russians were our buddies now and china were the baddies? I cant keep up
It's a 'dungout' - you should be delighted.
Nazis are also dung. Also the leader escaped. Ireland is surrounded by water there will be no escape from here.. ;)
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2014, 01:37:09 PM
The President of Ukraine was democratically elected. He has now been impeached by the parliament, which is also a democratic procedure and the outcome will be a new election in the near future.
Quote
I cant keep up
That much is obvious.
Democratically elected but he was supposed to be a strongman and he couldn't stop the place going to pot.
Ukraine is basically 2 countries- Russian speaking East with most of the industry and Ukrainian speaking West with farmland.
I think Ukraine is one of the major grain producing areas of the world- it keeps Egypt and the rest of the Arab world going.
Tymoshenko represents the West and Yanukovich the East. Tymo was sent to prison on trumped up charges in 2011.
The EU needs to put serious money into Ukraine to get it going again.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2014, 01:37:09 PM
The President of Ukraine was democratically elected. He has now been impeached by the parliament, which is also a democratic procedure and the outcome will be a new election in the near future.
Quote
I cant keep up
That much is obvious.
Lucky old you with the bbc to keep you "informed" ::)
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2014, 03:09:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2014, 01:37:09 PM
The President of Ukraine was democratically elected. He has now been impeached by the parliament, which is also a democratic procedure and the outcome will be a new election in the near future.
Quote
I cant keep up
That much is obvious.
Democratically elected but he was supposed to be a strongman and he couldn't stop the place going to pot.
Ukraine is basically 2 countries- Russian speaking East with most of the industry and Ukrainian speaking West with farmland.
I think Ukraine is one of the major grain producing areas of the world- it keeps Egypt and the rest of the Arab world going.
Tymoshenko represents the West and Yanukovich the East. Tymo was sent to prison on trumped up charges in 2011.
The EU needs to put serious money into Ukraine to get it going again.
Ukraine is two countries.. A bit like here or like lurgan
Quote from: lawnseed on February 23, 2014, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2014, 03:09:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2014, 01:37:09 PM
The President of Ukraine was democratically elected. He has now been impeached by the parliament, which is also a democratic procedure and the outcome will be a new election in the near future.
Quote
I cant keep up
That much is obvious.
Democratically elected but he was supposed to be a strongman and he couldn't stop the place going to pot.
Ukraine is basically 2 countries- Russian speaking East with most of the industry and Ukrainian speaking West with farmland.
I think Ukraine is one of the major grain producing areas of the world- it keeps Egypt and the rest of the Arab world going.
Tymoshenko represents the West and Yanukovich the East. Tymo was sent to prison on trumped up charges in 2011.
The EU needs to put serious money into Ukraine to get it going again.
Ukraine is two countries.. A bit like here or like lurgan
Ireland is more like one country really. Man Utd fans on both sides of the border
The departed PM left the country bankrupt and ran a very corrupt Government. It's going to take a lot of work to get the country going again.
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2014, 06:35:20 PM
The departed PM left the country bankrupt and ran a very corrupt Government. It's going to take a lot of work to get the country going again.
Well theres the difference.. The fukrs who did that here are still walking about.. And paddy is still happy to bend over. In fact we give them over 2000 a week in pensions for their "good" work.
This is a disturbing turn of events where the germans/EC get to choose who runs various countries eg here, greece etc it seems democracy has to take a back seat when it conflicts with german interests.. In fact its clear they'd split ukraine if needs be... Now that IS the same as here!
I think the protesters who originally went to Maidan Square were genuinely fearful of a move backwards to Russian dominance when Yanukovich scuppered the EU agreement. Ukraine, like Poland is one of those terribly unfortunate countries, fated by geography to be a battleground for competing ideologies - during the Second World War it was where some of the bitterest atrocities between Nazism and Communism took place. Now it is caught in a battle between Western free market neo-cons and ex- Soviet controlled economy Russians.
Interesting thing is how the Americans thought they were going to cut the EU out of the equation as evidenced by the transcript of the conversation involving the senior US diplomats to the area ("F**k the EU and we'll put pur own government in"). Seems like the US and the Russians have been reading too much John Le Carre and are acting like it is the the 70's all over again. The new Ukrainian President has pivoted quite decisively back to the EU and i genuinely think, for all its faults, a partnership with the EU, sidelining both Russia and the US, is the best result for the Ukranian people - if it can be achieved peacefully.
Unfortunately, it is not only a question of economic ideologies. To take the Irish example, some really think they are Russian and some have lost any real sense of being different from Russians as we have west British people here. Also some of those who do not want to be Russian do not necessarily oppose government control of the economy, so like Sinn Féin many of those who want independence haven't the economic policies to make it work.
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 24, 2014, 09:14:37 AMUkraine, like Poland is one of those terribly unfortunate countries, fated by geography to be a battleground for competing ideologies - during the Second World War it was where some of the bitterest atrocities between Nazism and Communism took place.
And after the war the internecine savagery was possibly even worse. Savage Continent (http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-World/dp/125003356X) is one of the most eye-opening (and depressing) histories I've read.
It's getting worrying now with the Russians describing events in Kiev as a coup, talk of "fraternal assistance" for Ukraine - the phrase the USSR used for its "assistance" to Czechoslovakia in 1968 - and even unconfirmed rumours of troop movements.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 24, 2014, 10:27:05 AM
Unfortunately, it is not only a question of economic ideologies. To take the Irish example, some really think they are Russian and some have lost any real sense of being different from Russians as we have west British people here. Also some of those who do not want to be Russian do not necessarily oppose government control of the economy, so like Sinn Féin many of those who want independence haven't the economic policies to make it work.
Which is why the useful fudge of a pan-European identity is the best thing for the situation. We slag off the EU all the time, and with good reason at times, but its basic function was to create a continental entity which we could all own, and in doing so, avoid the bloodbaths of the two world wars.
Quote from: Hardy on February 24, 2014, 10:55:33 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on February 24, 2014, 09:14:37 AMUkraine, like Poland is one of those terribly unfortunate countries, fated by geography to be a battleground for competing ideologies - during the Second World War it was where some of the bitterest atrocities between Nazism and Communism took place.
And after the war the internecine savagery was possibly even worse. Savage Continent (http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-World/dp/125003356X) is one of the most eye-opening (and depressing) histories I've read.
It's getting worrying now with the Russians describing events in Kiev as a coup, talk of "fraternal assistance" for Ukraine - the phrase the USSR used for its "assistance" to Czechoslovakia in 1968 - and even unconfirmed rumours of troop movements.
Just read this morning that Moscow recalled their ambassador. At this stage a return of the Cold War looks like the best of bad bunch of options.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 24, 2014, 10:27:05 AM
Unfortunately, it is not only a question of economic ideologies. To take the Irish example, some really think they are Russian and some have lost any real sense of being different from Russians as we have west British people here. Also some of those who do not want to be Russian do not necessarily oppose government control of the economy, so like Sinn Féin many of those who want independence haven't the economic policies to make it work.
If they had more money these problems would be easier to resolve
Quote from: armaghniac on February 24, 2014, 10:27:05 AM
Unfortunately, it is not only a question of economic ideologies. To take the Irish example, some really think they are Russian and some have lost any real sense of being different from Russians as we have west British people here. Also some of those who do not want to be Russian do not necessarily oppose government control of the economy, so like Sinn Féin many of those who want independence haven't the economic policies to make it work.
What? Are you on smirnoff? Its not russian or ukrainian you know. Its west brit.. ::)
So the russians and yanks have been thwarted by the good guy EU? The same crowd who sacked the elected primeminister of greece when he disagreed with their plans for his country. Tell me this whos the baddest the yanks or russians? Who'd you prefer to side with if you had to?
All the talk from Moscow today is a bit worrying. Communism may have bit the dust but the Cold War still goes on. The west seems keen to box in Russia as much as possible and desperate to get a strategic toe hold on the Crimean Sea. Russia might just hold onto their pal Assad in Syria but not for long I imagine. I'm not sure if Russia would actually dare escalate to putting troops into Ukraine but they are probably going to stoke the flames of separatism.
In regards someone's earlier comment about Pan-national European identity, while I agree there is a need for a stronger sense of European identity in a globalised world, a lot of trouble would be avoided if the diverse range of Ethnic European identities were respected by national governments. Cataluna being a prime example of a national government poking a sleeping bear with a stick, at their own peril usually.
QuoteAll the talk from Moscow today is a bit worrying. Communism may have bit the dust but the Cold War still goes on. The west seems keen to box in Russia as much as possible and desperate to get a strategic toe hold on the Crimean Sea.
This is a bit simplistic. Bulgaria and Romania are already in the EU and on the Black Sea. The Baltic States are already in the EU. If the Ukraine wants closer ties with the EU should the EU say "feck off, you belong to Russia?"?
Of course it's not the whole picture, it's one paragraph briefly summarising my speculative thoughts on the geopolitical side of things. It's funny how the way things are panning out much the way geo-political strategists in the west and most notably those closely connected to the White House have been saying.
Is it a mere coincidence that this is happening more or less when Russia was trying to present a different image of itself with the Olympics. Could well be. Who can say.
You have Russia supporting the Syrian government and close ties to Iran.
You have Turkey now operating troops in Syria.
Of course Islamic groups, Lebanon and Israel are all factors there too.
Turkey's less healthy relationship with Israel and a destablised Egypt.
If Russia decide to send troops into Ukraine do the EU and USA stand back like happened with Georgia? In the very very unlikely circumstance Europe and the Americans did the same surely that would leave Japan and Taiwan majorly exposed to China and a new Korean War more likely with less chance of US, Aussie etc. troops on the ground.
If French sent troops and got dragged in, they would surely pull stablising troops out of Africa. If the Brits got dragged in, would the Falklands fall!
QuoteIf the Brits got dragged in, would the Falklands fall!
We could get Russian help and liberate Cross'!
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2014, 02:52:09 PM
You have Russia supporting the Syrian government and close ties to Iran.
You have Turkey now operating troops in Syria.
Of course Islamic groups, Lebanon and Israel are all factors there too.
Turkey's less healthy relationship with Israel and a destablised Egypt.
If Russia decide to send troops into Ukraine do the EU and USA stand back like happened with Georgia? In the very very unlikely circumstance Europe and the Americans did the same surely that would leave Japan and Taiwan majorly exposed to China and a new Korean War more likely with less chance of US, Aussie etc. troops on the ground.
If French sent troops and got dragged in, they would surely pull stablising troops out of Africa. If the Brits got dragged in, would the Falklands fall!
If all the above happens put ye're money on the Rhubarbs to win Sam.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 27, 2014, 03:55:15 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2014, 02:52:09 PM
You have Russia supporting the Syrian government and close ties to Iran.
You have Turkey now operating troops in Syria.
Of course Islamic groups, Lebanon and Israel are all factors there too.
Turkey's less healthy relationship with Israel and a destablised Egypt.
If Russia decide to send troops into Ukraine do the EU and USA stand back like happened with Georgia? In the very very unlikely circumstance Europe and the Americans did the same surely that would leave Japan and Taiwan majorly exposed to China and a new Korean War more likely with less chance of US, Aussie etc. troops on the ground.
If French sent troops and got dragged in, they would surely pull stablising troops out of Africa. If the Brits got dragged in, would the Falklands fall!
If all the above happens put ye're money on the Rhubarbs to win Sam.
All of the above are more reason if the Russians go in, Europe and the US will do nothing.
Russians have seized the two airports in crimear. warming up nicely. Id say we are witnessing the birth of the URA. Ukraine rep army
Quote from: lawnseed on February 28, 2014, 10:04:33 AM
Russians have seized the two airports in crimear. warming up nicely. Id say we are witnessing the birth of the URA. Ukraine rep army
Wherever crimear is.
Hopefully the russians will restore democracy to ukraine. They provide a threat and foil to the nazis who have seized power with western backing. Russia cancel the west leaving the ukrainians to sort this out. Theyve bankrolled this basket case country the germans think theyre gonna take over unhindered.
This could be a job for the euro rapid force. No doubt gimp kenny and vlad varadkar will volunteer "our boys"
Quote from: lawnseed on March 02, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
Hopefully the russians will restore democracy to ukraine. They provide a threat and foil to the nazis who have seized power with western backing. Russia cancel the west leaving the ukrainians to sort this out. Theyve bankrolled this basket case country the germans think theyre gonna take over unhindered.
This could be a job for the euro rapid force. No doubt gimp kenny and vlad varadkar will volunteer "our boys"
You are beyond insane if you think the thugs in Moscow are in the right here. Russia's empire games have no place in the Ukraine, ethnic minority or not. The Tatar minority in Crimea will stand up to the Russian imperialists even if the Ukrainian army don't.
Quote from: lawnseed on March 02, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
Hopefully the russians will restore democracy to ukraine. They provide a threat and foil to the nazis who have seized power with western backing. Russia cancel the west leaving the ukrainians to sort this out. Theyve bankrolled this basket case country the germans think theyre gonna take over unhindered.
This could be a job for the euro rapid force. No doubt gimp kenny and vlad varadkar will volunteer "our boys"
FFS!
The Russians restoring democracy? They know feck all about democracy, they know plenty about killing people by the millions and destroying the rights of a people to determine their own fate.
Obama is a clown, it will take more than strong rhetoric to keep Putin from putting his stamp on this situation and personally speaking I think Putin owns the man unfortunately.
Lets see the un in all it's glory on this one, lets see them save the day! ::)
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2014, 05:19:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 02, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
Hopefully the russians will restore democracy to ukraine. They provide a threat and foil to the nazis who have seized power with western backing. Russia cancel the west leaving the ukrainians to sort this out. Theyve bankrolled this basket case country the germans think theyre gonna take over unhindered.
This could be a job for the euro rapid force. No doubt gimp kenny and vlad varadkar will volunteer "our boys"
FFS!
The Russians restoring democracy? They know feck all about democracy, they know plenty about killing people by the millions and destroying the rights of a people to determine their own fate.
Obama is a clown, it will take more than strong rhetoric to keep Putin from putting his stamp on this situation and personally speaking I think Putin owns the man unfortunately.
Lets see the un in all it's glory on this one, lets see them save the day! ::)
Crimea is an autonomous republic within the Ukraine state. It also has an ethnic Russian majority, so if you're talking about people determining their own fate, what happens if the people of Crimea want to live within the Russian Federation? There are obvious parallels with Ireland, which makes it funny to hear Cameron telling the Russians to respect the sovereignty of UKraine.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 02, 2014, 06:19:37 PM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2014, 05:19:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 02, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
Hopefully the russians will restore democracy to ukraine. They provide a threat and foil to the nazis who have seized power with western backing. Russia cancel the west leaving the ukrainians to sort this out. Theyve bankrolled this basket case country the germans think theyre gonna take over unhindered.
This could be a job for the euro rapid force. No doubt gimp kenny and vlad varadkar will volunteer "our boys"
FFS!
The Russians restoring democracy? They know feck all about democracy, they know plenty about killing people by the millions and destroying the rights of a people to determine their own fate.
Obama is a clown, it will take more than strong rhetoric to keep Putin from putting his stamp on this situation and personally speaking I think Putin owns the man unfortunately.
Lets see the un in all it's glory on this one, lets see them save the day! ::)
Crimea is an autonomous republic within the Ukraine state. It also has an ethnic Russian majority, so if you're talking about people determining their own fate, what happens if the people of Crimea want to live within the Russian Federation? There are obvious parallels with Ireland, which makes it funny to hear Cameron telling the Russians to respect the sovereignty of UKraine.
The majority population of Crimea, the Crimean Tatars, were ethnically cleansed in 1944 and deported East by Stalin who replaced therm with Russians
It's 58% Russians, 25% Ukrainians and 12% Tatars
It looks like Putin wants to provoke the Ukrainians like he provoked Georgia in 2008 , then send in the troops for a fait accompli.
He wants to keep Ukraine weak and outside the EU.
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2014, 06:25:51 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 02, 2014, 06:19:37 PM
Quote from: stew on March 02, 2014, 05:19:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 02, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
Hopefully the russians will restore democracy to ukraine. They provide a threat and foil to the nazis who have seized power with western backing. Russia cancel the west leaving the ukrainians to sort this out. Theyve bankrolled this basket case country the germans think theyre gonna take over unhindered.
This could be a job for the euro rapid force. No doubt gimp kenny and vlad varadkar will volunteer "our boys"
FFS!
The Russians restoring democracy? They know feck all about democracy, they know plenty about killing people by the millions and destroying the rights of a people to determine their own fate.
Obama is a clown, it will take more than strong rhetoric to keep Putin from putting his stamp on this situation and personally speaking I think Putin owns the man unfortunately.
Lets see the un in all it's glory on this one, lets see them save the day! ::)
Crimea is an autonomous republic within the Ukraine state. It also has an ethnic Russian majority, so if you're talking about people determining their own fate, what happens if the people of Crimea want to live within the Russian Federation? There are obvious parallels with Ireland, which makes it funny to hear Cameron telling the Russians to respect the sovereignty of UKraine.
The majority population of Crimea, the Crimean Tatars, were ethnically cleansed in 1944 and deported East by Stalin who replaced therm with Russians
It's 58% Russians, 25% Ukrainians and 12% Tatars
It looks like Putin wants to provoke the Ukrainians like he provoked Georgia in 2008 , then send in the troops for a fait accompli.
He wants to keep Ukraine weak and outside the EU.
Up to 6,000,000 Crimean Tatars in Turkey, time for them to be brought home to Crimea/Ukraine. Go home Russia you're drunk.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 02, 2014, 06:19:37 PM
FFS!
Crimea is an autonomous republic within the Ukraine state. It also has an ethnic Russian majority, so if you're talking about people determining their own fate, what happens if the people of Crimea want to live within the Russian Federation? There are obvious parallels with Ireland, which makes it funny to hear Cameron telling the Russians to respect the sovereignty of UKraine.
There are obvious parallels with Ireland, the colonial power trying to keep an ethnically cleansed area, which makes Cameron a hypocrite, not for the first time. There are also parallels as the Ukrainians haven't actually proposed any anti-Russian measures or discrimination of any sort, they are probably quite happy to deal but the bullies do not want to talk.
However, within the Russian Federation there are several autonomous republics who want out, but who are supposed to make do with autonomy for the greater good, not much consistency there.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 02, 2014, 06:37:47 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on March 02, 2014, 06:19:37 PM
FFS!
The Russians restoring democracy? They know feck all about democracy, they know plenty about killing people by the millions and destroying the rights of a people to determine their own fate.
Obama is a clown, it will take more than strong rhetoric to keep Putin from putting his stamp on this situation and personally speaking I think Putin owns the man unfortunately.
Lets see the un in all it's glory on this one, lets see them save the day! ::)
Crimea is an autonomous republic within the Ukraine state. It also has an ethnic Russian majority, so if you're talking about people determining their own fate, what happens if the people of Crimea want to live within the Russian Federation? There are obvious parallels with Ireland, which makes it funny to hear Cameron telling the Russians to respect the sovereignty of UKraine.
There are obvious parallels with Ireland, the colonial power trying to keep an ethnically cleansed area, which makes Cameron a hypocrite, not for the first time.
However, within the Russian Federation there are several autonomous republics who want out, but who are supposed to make do with autonomy for the greater good, not much consistency there.
[/quote]
First rule of Russia club, nobody leaves Russia club. The Russians are a threat to peace in Europe.
Giving tthe make up of the new Ukranian Government, would you want them in the E.U.
Sure, if world war 3 beaks out, we'll be dandy. Just hit the pub and watch it on the TV. Sure, who would bomb us? Well, apart from ourselves. One of the few positives of living in this place is nobody gives a f**k about us in the grand scheme of things
Aye, whatever. Gobshite
Tatar minority.. Emmm.. You got that right.
Have you had a look at the crowd who have siezed power in ukraine? Try taking off your euro-american glasses and tell me what you see..
I see right wing nazis.. Homophobic anti semetic racists wearing swastikas thats who your taxes are supporting...
Up to and until 1954 crimea was russian until it was "given" to ukraine as a 'present' to celebrate 300 years of russian-ukrainian friendship/collaboration. If the friendship is over..
Quote from: lawnseed on March 02, 2014, 10:31:15 PM
Tatar minority.. Emmm.. You got that right.
Have you had a look at the crowd who have siezed power in ukraine? Try taking off your euro-american glasses and tell me what you see..
I see right wing nazis.. Homophobic anti semetic racists wearing swastikas thats who your taxes are supporting...
Up to and until 1954 crimea was russian until it was "given" to ukraine as a 'present' to celebrate 300 years of russian-ukrainian friendship/collaboration. If the friendship is over..
And who did those same Russians take Crimea from? The native Tatars, that is who. A people exiled from their homeland and replaced by Russian colonists.
Do you work at being so stupid or does it come naturally?
300 years.. Of brotherhood.. A few million euro or dollars wont change that.. Just wait til the krouts start to tell the ukraine people how to live in misery or that when they join the ec their country will fill up with foreigners who will put them to work for fuk all then ignore them. The days when the ec came into your country and made roads.. are long gone which is probably what you think they do keeping in mind where your from..
You havent really thought this through. Ukraine is a farm.. It will need, expect upon joining the ec a huge boost in farm incomes as their produce floods the eurpean market in the meantime the ec farmer goes broke.. I think you'll find support for ukraine ec membership lacking from within the ec especially from the former commie block members.
Britains involvement in this affair stinks cameron's condemnation of russian actions while fighting a rearguard action against ukip to try and keep in with the mounting anti ec movement in his own country shows just where the uk is.
Just wait till ukraine holds out its paw for a bailout and see who forks out. I think you'll find russia will come up trumph or wait til russia turns off the gas and the ukraine teeth start chattering..i hope germany has accomodation for those skinheads they are bankrolling when they are chased out of their own cou
Mayo you realise the tatar claim to crimea stems from the rule of gengis khan just how far back counts in your book of history. You want the country given back to guys with ponies and bows and arrows and yet you happily support a party who washed thier hands of six counties of your own country
John Kerry obviously has the memory of a goldfish and doesn't remember the invasion of Iraq, among others......
"You just don't invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests," John Kerry said during an interview with NBC's Meet the Press. "This is an act of aggression that is completely trumped up in terms of its pretext. It's really 19th century behaviour in the 21st century."
http://rt.com/news/kerry-russia-us-pretext-494/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
Or maybe he should have read up a bit on the history of US military interventions over the past 100 years:
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
The Russian activity here sounds very similar to Anschluss in 1938 when Germany took Austria under its wing to protect the interests of Germans in Austria.
Quote from: lawnseed on March 03, 2014, 05:47:18 AM
300 years.. Of brotherhood.. A few million euro or dollars wont change that.. Just wait til the krouts start to tell the ukraine people how to live in misery or that when they join the ec their country will fill up with foreigners who will put them to work for fuk all then ignore them. The days when the ec came into your country and made roads.. are long gone which is probably what you think they do keeping in mind where your from..
You havent really thought this through. Ukraine is a farm.. It will need, expect upon joining the ec a huge boost in farm incomes as their produce floods the eurpean market in the meantime the ec farmer goes broke.. I think you'll find support for ukraine ec membership lacking from within the ec especially from the former commie block members.
Britains involvement in this affair stinks cameron's condemnation of russian actions while fighting a rearguard action against ukip to try and keep in with the mounting anti ec movement in his own country shows just where the uk is.
Just wait till ukraine holds out its paw for a bailout and see who forks out. I think you'll find russia will come up trumph or wait til russia turns off the gas and the ukraine teeth start chattering..i hope germany has accomodation for those skinheads they are bankrolling when they are chased out of their own cou
Mayo you realise the tatar claim to crimea stems from the rule of gengis khan just how far back counts in your book of history. You want the country given back to guys with ponies and bows and arrows and yet you happily support a party who washed thier hands of six counties of your own country
Again you have no clue, the Crimean Tatar people are a cultural group. The Tatsr people of the Crimean Steppe are mostly of Turkic and Mongol heritage (Cumans and Kipchacks). The Southern Coast Crimean Tatar are Pontus-Greeks, Italians, Scythians, Armenians, Ottomans, older pops from what was Asia-Minor. Ostrogoths are the ancestors of the Tatar of the Crimean highlands.
Make sure you research the Crimean Tatar not the Tatar, it is like confus8ng a Gael with Celtic Culture to a La Tene Celt of Switzerland.
QuoteThe Russian activity here sounds very similar to Anschluss in 1938 when Germany took Austria under its wing to protect the interests of Germans in Austria
Not quite, the analogy is closer to Hitler's annexation of the Czech Sudetenland, to protect its Germans. The Austrian situation would be more like Russia reabsorbing Belarus.
But the Austrians didn't contest the Anschluss. (Because they were infiltrated at high levels by Nazis). Seems similar, but yes maybe more like the annexing of the sudetenland.
The U.S. and other participants in Iraq are hypocrites but in their current condemnation they are right. During Great War the Brits and French were justified defending Belgium as both had guaranteed it's security since the days the had helped keep the Dutch out, however Britain refused Ireland freedom and France held Corsica.
The U.S. has Installed a Neo-Nazi Government in Ukraine
According to the New York Times, "The United States and the European Union have embraced the revolution here as another flowering of democracy, a blow to authoritarianism and kleptocracy in the former Soviet space." ( After Initial Triumph, Ukraine's Leaders Face Battle for Credibility, NYTimes.com, March 1, 2014, emphasis added)
"Flowering Democracy, Revolution"? The grim realities are otherwise. What is a stake is a US-EU-NATO sponsored coup d'Etat in blatant violation of international law.
The forbidden truth is that the West has engineered –through a carefully staged covert operation– the formation of a proxy regime integrated by Neo-Nazis.
Confirmed by Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, key organizations in the Ukraine including the Neo-Nazi party Svoboda were generously supported by Washington: "We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals. ... We will continue to promote Ukraine to the future it deserves."
The Western media has casually avoided to analyze the composition and ideological underpinnings of the government coalition. The word "Neo-Nazi" is a taboo. It has been excluded from the dictionary of mainstream media commentary. It will not appear in the pages of the New York Times, the Washington Post or The Independent. Journalists have been instructed not to use the term "Neo-Nazi" to designate Svoboda and the Right Sector.
Composition of the Coalition Government
We are not dealing with a transitional government in which Neo-Nazi elements integrate the fringe of the coalition, formally led by the Fatherland party.
The Cabinet is not only integrated by the Svoboda and Right Sector (not to mention former members of defunct fascist UNA-UNSO), the two main Neo-Nazi entities have been entrusted with key positions which grant them de facto control over the Armed Forces, Police, Justice and National Security.
While Yatsenuyk's Fatherland Party controls the majority of portfolios and Svoboda Neo-Nazi leader Oleh Tyahnybok was not granted a major cabinet post (apparently at the request of assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland), members of Svoboda and the Right Sector occupy key positions in the areas of Defense, Law Enforcement, Education and Economic Affairs.
Andriy Parubiy co-founder of the Neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine (subsequently renamed Svoboda) was appointed Secretary of the National Security and National Defense Committee (RNBOU). (Рада національної безпеки і оборони України), a key position which overseas the Ministry of Defense, the Armed Forces, Law Enforcement, National Security and Intelligence. The RNBOU is central decision-making body. While it is formally headed by the president, it is run by the Secretariat with a staff of 180 people including defense, intelligence and national security experts.
Parubiy was one of the main leaders behind the Orange Revolution in 2004. His organization was funded by the West. He is referred to by the Western media as the "kommandant" of the EuroMaidan movement. Andriy Parubiy together with party leader Oleh Tyahnybok is a follower of Ukrainian Nazi Stepan Bandera, who collaborated in the mass murderer of Jews and Poles during World War II.
In turn, Dmytro Yarosh, leader of the Right Sector delegation in the parliament, has been appointed Parubiy's deputy Secretary of the RNBOU.
Yarosh was the leader of the Brown Shirt Neo-Nazi paramilitary during the EuroMaidan "protest" movement. He has called for disbanding the Party of the regions and the Communist Party.
The Neo Nazi party also controls the judicial process with the appointment of Oleh Makhnitsky of the Svoboda party to the position of prosecutor-general of Ukraine. What kind of justice will prevail with a reknown Neo-Nazi in charge of the Prosecutor's Office of Ukraine?
Cabinet positions were also allocated to former members of the Neo-Nazi fringe organization Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian National Self Defense (UNA-UNSO):
"Tetyana Chernovol, portrayed in the Western press as a crusading investigative journalist without reference to her past involvement in the anti-Semitic UNA-UNSO, was named chair of the government's anti-corruption committee. Dmytro Bulatov, known for his alleged kidnapping by police, but also with UNA-UNSO connections, was appointed minister of youth and sports.
Yegor Sobolev, leader of a civic group in Independence Maidan and politically close to Yatsenyuk, was appointed chair of the Lustration Committee, charged with purging followers of President Yanukovych from government and public life. (See Ukraine Transition Government: Neo-Nazis in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education, Global Research, March 02, 2014
The Lustration Committee is to organize the Neo-Nazi witch-hunt against all opponents of the new Neo-Nazi regime. The targets of the lustration campaign are people in positions of authority within the civil service, regional and municipal governments, education, research, etc. The term lustration refers to the "mass disqualification" of people associated with the former government. It also has racial overtones. It will in all likelihood be directed against Communists, Russians and members of the Jewish community.
It is important to reflect on the fact that the West, formally committed to democratic values, has not only spearheaded the demise of an elected president, it has instated a political regime integrated by Neo-Nazis.
This is a proxy government which enables the US, NATO and EU to interfere in Ukraine's internal affairs and dismantle its bilateral relations with the Russian Federation. It should be understood, however, that the Neo-Nazis do not ultimately call the shots: Under a "regime of indirect rule" they take their orders on crucial military and foreign policy issues –including the deployment of troops directed against the Russian federation– from the the US State Department, the Pentagon and NATO.
The World is at a dangerous crossroads: The structures and composition of this proxy government installed by the West do not favor dialogue with the Russian government and military.
A scenario of military escalation leading to confrontation of Russia and NATO is a distinct possibility. The Ukraine's National Security and National Defense Committee (RNBOU) which is controlled by Neo-Nazis plays a central role in military affairs. In the confrontation with Moscow, decisions taken by the RNBOU headed by Neo-Nazi Parubiy and his brown Shirt deputy Dmytro Yarosh –in consultation with Washington and Brussels– could potentially have devastating consequences.
However, it goes without saying that "support" to the formation of a Neo-Nazi government does not in any way imply the development of "fascist tendencies" within the White House, the State Department and the US Congress.
"The flowering of democracy" in Ukraine –to use the words of the New York Times– is endorsed by Republicans and Democrats. It's a bipartisan project. Lest we forget, Senator John McCain is a firm supporter and friend of Neo Nazi Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-has-installed-a-neo-nazi-government-in-ukraine/5371554
On a lighter note.......
"Putin picks up Oscar for 'Best Invasion'
Russian leader Vladimir Putin has seen off the competition by staging the best military occupation of a sovereign state since the illegal invasion of Iraq.
Putin, who was also nominated in the categories of 'Best International Crisis' and 'Best War Film Not Yet Made', wowed punters at last night's Oscars ceremony by appearing on the red carpet bare-chested, wrestling a 400lb grizzly bear.
Steve McQueen, the British director of 12 Years a Slave, paid tribute to the former KGB agent for "having the vision to create this breath-taking invasion and the audacity to make it happen".
"By flouting international opinion and annexing Crimea and its shitty regional airport in this way without a single shot being fired, Vladimir Putin has shown us all how it's done," McQueen told reporters.
The award represents a huge achievement for Putin, who normally silences his critics by having them injected with radioactive isotopes of Polonium.
Oscar for Putin
The Russian leader missed out on an Oscar five years ago when his invasion of Georgia was universally panned by critics, who claimed it was "dull" and "went on far too long".
"Crimea", however, was staged on a budget of several billion roubles and managed to see off late challenges from the Taliban and child-murdering education-reformists Boko Haram.
Fighting back the tears during his acceptance speech, Putin said: "This award is not about me. It's about the five million ethnic Russians who don't want an EU passport and who have never watched Brokeback Mountain on Blu-Ray."
"Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Woody Allen."
Putin also received several major plaudits for film doctoring, sound editing, visual pyrotechnics and "best scene involving a big f**k-off tank".
Last night Putin celebrated his historic win by locking himself in his room and bingeing on a massive bag of heroin.
http://newsthump.com/2014/03/03/putin-picks-up-oscar-for-best-invasion/
Escalating quickly, Russian Navy threatens assault if Crimea does not surrender it's forces on Crimea by 3am GMT. Ukraine's recruitment offices being overrun with peoplle joining up.
Groups in Turkey pictured giving their support to Tatars.
Syria same as.
North Korea renews threats.
Europe and USA threaten economic sanctions.
Gilmore on the news threatening Russia. If Vlad is listening - He's only a gobshite, OK? Don't mind us. Sure you probably have an Irish granny.
The British seem inspired by Neville Chamberpot rather than Winston Churchill.
Britain is drawing up plans to ensure that any EU action against Russia over Ukraine will exempt the City of London, according to a secret government document photographed in Downing Street.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/uk-seeks-russia-harm-city-london-document
You see mayo theres that fuking word that causes so much trouble "cultural" culture.. If we are to follow you arguement through then bye bye america bye bye austrailia lets hand the place back to the cultural aboriginal natives lets go walkabout or hunt buffalo.
Ukraine has the same hope of getting rid of russians as we have of getting rid of prods/unionists or grey squirrels.. It aint gonna happen..
Have you seen the protagonists in the last crimean war.. turkey france britian serbia austria/hungary V russia bulgaria romania greece. Where are they now each have had empires all have failed. Just as the western/euro empire will fail
You couldn't make this shit up!
19:43
US President Barack Obama says Russia has violated international law in Ukraine. Russia is on the "wrong side of history", he said, adding that the US would look at a series of economic and diplomatic sanctions that would isolate Moscow. Mr Obama was speaking from the White House before a meeting with Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu.
Ukraine's new leader
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-9LAmB6l1D_mZOesxG2Tu7FcSjSNh2fwPxsal1pwJwhytM-rQ)
Quote from: lawnseed on March 03, 2014, 09:11:36 PM
You see mayo theres that fuking word that causes so much trouble "cultural" culture.. If we are to follow you arguement through then bye bye america bye bye austrailia lets hand the place back to the cultural aboriginal natives lets go walkabout or hunt buffalo.
Ukraine has the same hope of getting rid of russians as we have of getting rid of prods/unionists or grey squirrels.. It aint gonna happen..
Have you seen the protagonists in the last crimean war.. turkey france britian serbia austria/hungary V russia bulgaria romania greece. Where are they now each have had empires all have failed. Just as the western/euro empire will fail
The Tatars were removed by the Soviets, 200,000 between 1941-44 and 240,000 between 1944 and 1947. Hundreds of thousands died.
Listening to so called Western Statesmens pronouncements on this issue, i am continually wondering if i have wandered into the novel Alice In Wonderland.
Quote from: Pangurban on March 03, 2014, 10:42:40 PM
Listening to so called Western Statesmens pronouncements on this issue, i am continually wondering if i have wandered into the novel Alice In Wonderland.
Agree, bunch of f**king hypocrites the lot of them. Sickening.
I saw this cracker from John Kerry
"It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country...You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."
w**ker
I just read and seen clip on the internet, the phrase "Irish Ukrainians, not Russians" has played on repeat for 20 minutes over regular programming and adverts on RTE :-\
Did someone let Gilmore near RTE!
Quote from: Apparently so on March 03, 2014, 10:53:41 PM
I saw this cracker from John Kerry
"It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country...You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."
w**ker
While I am opposed to Russia's actions, the Yanks hypocrisy is blatant, shameless and laughable.
Quote from: Hardy on March 03, 2014, 06:39:57 PM
Gilmore on the news threatening Russia. If Vlad is listening - He's only a gobshite, OK? Don't mind us. Sure you probably have an Irish granny.
Nearly up there with The Skibbereen Eagle telling the Czar it was keeping its eye on him...
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2014, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 03, 2014, 09:11:36 PM
You see mayo theres that fuking word that causes so much trouble "cultural" culture.. If we are to follow you arguement through then bye bye america bye bye austrailia lets hand the place back to the cultural aboriginal natives lets go walkabout or hunt buffalo.
Ukraine has the same hope of getting rid of russians as we have of getting rid of prods/unionists or grey squirrels.. It aint gonna happen..
Have you seen the protagonists in the last crimean war.. turkey france britian serbia austria/hungary V russia bulgaria romania greece. Where are they now each have had empires all have failed. Just as the western/euro empire will fail
The Tatars were removed by the Soviets, 200,000 between 1941-44 and 240,000 between 1944 and 1947. Hundreds of thousands died.
Why?? Because they were hitlers mates!
Bit of hot headedness on both sides. The EU and the Yanks can always freeze Putin's money . the Swiss did that to Yanukovich .
The issue seems to be the rights of Russian speakers on the Crimea.
Surely they can come to some sort of calm that allows Putin to back down with honour.
Quote from: lawnseed on March 04, 2014, 09:05:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2014, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 03, 2014, 09:11:36 PM
You see mayo theres that fuking word that causes so much trouble "cultural" culture.. If we are to follow you arguement through then bye bye america bye bye austrailia lets hand the place back to the cultural aboriginal natives lets go walkabout or hunt buffalo.
Ukraine has the same hope of getting rid of russians as we have of getting rid of prods/unionists or grey squirrels.. It aint gonna happen..
Have you seen the protagonists in the last crimean war.. turkey france britian serbia austria/hungary V russia bulgaria romania greece. Where are they now each have had empires all have failed. Just as the western/euro empire will fail
The Tatars were removed by the Soviets, 200,000 between 1941-44 and 240,000 between 1944 and 1947. Hundreds of thousands died.
Why?? Because they were hitlers mates!
The O'Lawnseed people were enemies of the Crown, back in the 1600s, which is why they were dispossessed.
And didn't it all work out so well in the years that followed.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 04, 2014, 12:27:39 AM
Quote from: Apparently so on March 03, 2014, 10:53:41 PM
I saw this cracker from John Kerry
"It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country...You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."
w**kerx
While I am opposed to Russia's actions, the Yanks hypocrisy is blatant, shameless and laughable.
Right your opposed to russia and now you dont like america. So its just the guys 12% on the ponies with the bows and arrows you like... The nazi collaboraters and you want the guys with the swastikas to run the whole country..? Maybe if they had blueshirts.. It might be more.. Irish for you
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2014, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 04, 2014, 09:05:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2014, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 03, 2014, 09:11:36 PM
You see mayo theres that fuking word that causes so much trouble "cultural" culture.. If we are to follow you arguement through then bye bye america bye bye austrailia lets hand the place back to the cultural aboriginal natives lets go walkabout or hunt buffalo.
Ukraine has the same hope of getting rid of russians as we have of getting rid of prods/unionists or grey squirrels.. It aint gonna happen..
Have you seen the protagonists in the last crimean war.. turkey france britian serbia austria/hungary V russia bulgaria romania greece. Where are they now each have had empires all have failed. Just as the western/euro empire will fail
The Tatars were removed by the Soviets, 200,000 between 1941-44 and 240,000 between 1944 and 1947. Hundreds of thousands died.
Why?? Because they were hitlers mates!
The O'Lawnseed people were enemies of the Crown, back in the 1600s, which is why they were dispossessed.
And didn't it all work out so well in the years that followed.
Somehow when i'm working in england and well paid for it and looking at how the o'lawnseeds in the 26 screw each other over at each and every opportunity the relevance of what happened 400 years ago fails to motivate my daily actions in any particular direction.
I dont see america handing back texas or new mexico in fact the olawnseeds helped them until they discovered the mexicans were catholics
Quote from: lawnseed on March 04, 2014, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2014, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 04, 2014, 09:05:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2014, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 03, 2014, 09:11:36 PM
You see mayo theres that fuking word that causes so much trouble "cultural" culture.. If we are to follow you arguement through then bye bye america bye bye austrailia lets hand the place back to the cultural aboriginal natives lets go walkabout or hunt buffalo.
Ukraine has the same hope of getting rid of russians as we have of getting rid of prods/unionists or grey squirrels.. It aint gonna happen..
Have you seen the protagonists in the last crimean war.. turkey france britian serbia austria/hungary V russia bulgaria romania greece. Where are they now each have had empires all have failed. Just as the western/euro empire will fail
The Tatars were removed by the Soviets, 200,000 between 1941-44 and 240,000 between 1944 and 1947. Hundreds of thousands died.
Why?? Because they were hitlers mates!
The O'Lawnseed people were enemies of the Crown, back in the 1600s, which is why they were dispossessed.
And didn't it all work out so well in the years that followed.
Somehow when i'm working in england and well paid for it and looking at how the o'lawnseeds in the 26 screw each other over at each and every opportunity the relevance of what happened 400 years ago fails to motivate my daily actions in any particular direction.
I dont see america handing back texas or new mexico in fact the olawnseeds helped them until they discovered the mexicans were catholics
Northern Ireland has a primary deficit of 40% and survives on a GBP 9.6bn cash injection from London every year.
400 years on it is still FUBR.
The 26 have a positive primary balance.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2014, 09:50:07 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 04, 2014, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2014, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 04, 2014, 09:05:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2014, 10:21:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 03, 2014, 09:11:36 PM
You see mayo theres that fuking word that causes so much trouble "cultural" culture.. If we are to follow you arguement through then bye bye america bye bye austrailia lets hand the place back to the cultural aboriginal natives lets go walkabout or hunt buffalo.
Ukraine has the same hope of getting rid of russians as we have of getting rid of prods/unionists or grey squirrels.. It aint gonna happen..
Have you seen the protagonists in the last crimean war.. turkey france britian serbia austria/hungary V russia bulgaria romania greece. Where are they now each have had empires all have failed. Just as the western/euro empire will fail
The Tatars were removed by the Soviets, 200,000 between 1941-44 and 240,000 between 1944 and 1947. Hundreds of thousands died.
Why?? Because they were hitlers mates!
The O'Lawnseed people were enemies of the Crown, back in the 1600s, which is why they were dispossessed.
And didn't it all work out so well in the years that followed.
Somehow when i'm working in england and well paid for it and looking at how the o'lawnseeds in the 26 screw each other over at each and every opportunity the relevance of what happened 400 years ago fails to motivate my daily actions in any particular direction.
I dont see america handing back texas or new mexico in fact the olawnseeds helped them until they discovered the mexicans were catholics
Northern Ireland has a primary deficit of 40% and survives on a GBP 9.6bn cash injection from London every year.
400 years on it is still FUBR.
The 26 have a positive primary balance.
Yeah we have way too many "tatars" with ponies here in nordieland..
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 04, 2014, 12:27:39 AM
Quote from: Apparently so on March 03, 2014, 10:53:41 PM
I saw this cracker from John Kerry
"It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country...You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."
w**ker
While I am opposed to Russia's actions, the Yanks hypocrisy is blatant, shameless and laughable.
But is Kerry
wrong in what he says?
Quote from: Sidney on March 04, 2014, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 04, 2014, 12:27:39 AM
Quote from: Apparently so on March 03, 2014, 10:53:41 PM
I saw this cracker from John Kerry
"It is really a stunning, willful choice by President Putin to invade another country...You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext."
w**ker
While I am opposed to Russia's actions, the Yanks hypocrisy is blatant, shameless and laughable.
But is Kerry wrong in what he says?
Well, he and his fellow countrymen have made what the Russians have done very much a 21st century thing, Putin is only following the model set out by G Bush and Co, by all out invasion of another country for self interest, nothing more, nothing less.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 04, 2014, 01:16:26 PM
Well, he and his fellow countrymen have made what the Russians have done very much a 21st century thing, Putin is only following the model set out by G Bush and Co, by all out invasion of another country for self interest, nothing more, nothing less.
But again, is Kerry
wrong in what he says?
Quote from: Sidney on March 04, 2014, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 04, 2014, 01:16:26 PM
Well, he and his fellow countrymen have made what the Russians have done very much a 21st century thing, Putin is only following the model set out by G Bush and Co, by all out invasion of another country for self interest, nothing more, nothing less.
But again, is Kerry wrong in what he says?
He is wrong in saying its a 19th century act, its a 21st century act.
Is is wrong what Putin did, yes its wrong based on what we currently know, but as usual there are other forces at work.
Quote from: Sidney on March 04, 2014, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 04, 2014, 01:16:26 PM
Well, he and his fellow countrymen have made what the Russians have done very much a 21st century thing, Putin is only following the model set out by G Bush and Co, by all out invasion of another country for self interest, nothing more, nothing less.
But again, is Kerry wrong in what he says?
I think the original issue was hypocrisy not veracity.
Great. So we've established that what Kerry said is essentially correct.
A case of 'Do as I say, not as I do'.
Just a little bit.
Realistically, how does anyone see this unfolding?
Quote from: southdown on March 04, 2014, 02:37:39 PM
Realistically, how does anyone see this unfolding?
Some sanctions which don't go far enough. New elections in Ukraine, permanent Russian occupation of east Ukraine and Crimea. Fascists take over on local level in west, Orthodox theocrats in the east. China emboldened regarding Taiwan and islands disputed by China, Japan (and the Philippines). US, France, UK, Turkey to take their revenge by airstrikes in Syria. US to arm Baltic nations and Poland.
Turkey might be sold some submarine and naval assets to secure the Bosphorus.
Tymoshenko and Ukraine's new prime minister to visit Ireland this weekend
UKRAINE'S YULIA TYMOSHENKO is among the visitors who will speak at a European elections event in Ireland this weekend.
It was confirmed today that the opposition leader will join her country's newly-elected prime minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk and opposition figure Vitali Klitschko at the European People's Party conference in the capital.
Approximately 2,000 participants from 39 countries will take part in the Dublin congress, which takes place on Thursday and Friday of this week, 6-7 March at the Convention Centre on Dublin's Spencer Dock.
At the event, which is hosted by EPP member party Fine Gael, the EPP is due to elect its candidate for President of the European Commission.
Speculation began last November that Taoiseach Enda Kenny was "being seriously talked about" for the job.
The role has been held by Jose Manuel Barroso since 2004 and will become vacant this June.
The event will be hosted by the Taoiseach and by EPP President Joseph Daul and the EPP electoral programme is due to be discussed at the congress.
Speakers at the event will include Fine Gael TD Charlie Flanagan (Ireland), Jose Manuel Barroso (President of the European Commission), Angela Merkel (German Chancellor), and Herman Van Rompuy (President of the European Council).
http://www.thejournal.ie/yulia-tymoshenko-to-speak-in-ireland-1344209-Mar2014/
Today in Washington, Obama was hosting the war lord from Tel Aviv and talked about Russia breaking international law. Now those 2 men know a lot about international law, and nothing about humanity, or respecting it for that matter. Just to show Obama how good his free bombs and planes are, Israel attacked Gaza killing 2 young men, and injuring 2 children.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 04, 2014, 03:00:59 PM
Quote from: southdown on March 04, 2014, 02:37:39 PM
Realistically, how does anyone see this unfolding?
Some sanctions which don't go far enough. New elections in Ukraine, permanent Russian occupation of east Ukraine and Crimea. Fascists take over on local level in west, Orthodox theocrats in the east. China emboldened regarding Taiwan and islands disputed by China, Japan (and the Philippines). US, France, UK, Turkey to take their revenge by airstrikes in Syria. US to arm Baltic nations and Poland.
Turkey might be sold some submarine and naval assets to secure the Bosphorus.
and what about your Tatar mates fuk your troop carrier I got a harse outside
Sorry to say this but the Ukraine is fucked.....u may ask how do I know this.....google street cars have not been allowed to map......oooohhhhh
(http://hinessight.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451c0aa69e2012876ec99d0970c-800wi)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Wiktor_Juschtschenko%2C_Pr%C3%A4sident_der_Ukraine%2C_in_der_Universit%C3%A4t_Z%C3%BCrich.jpg/440px-Wiktor_Juschtschenko%2C_Pr%C3%A4sident_der_Ukraine%2C_in_der_Universit%C3%A4t_Z%C3%BCrich.jpg)
(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/52ebe1076bb3f7b44a2368f3-480/viktor-yanukovych-ukraine.jpg)
Julia Tymoshenko, Viktor Yushchenko & Viktor Yanukovych.
The continuing mess in Ukraine is mainly down to the political mis-adventures of the above three clowns.
The west and its media blames Yanukovych exclusively. It was his dire economic performance as President, coupled with disputed election results, that led to the Orange Revolution in 2004. That led to the other two, including darling of the west - the fragrant Julia, gaining power. Julia was, and still is, seen as leaning more towards the west and away from 'the Soviet cloud'.
One year after the Orange Revolution, Yushencko sacked Julia as Prime Minister. By 2010 the turbulent leadership of Tymoshenko & Yushchenko parties left the Ukrainian economy in such a bad state that Ukraine actually re-elected Yanukovych, in elections even the west admitted were legitimate.
Even worse for Julia, her former ally Yushencko actually testified against her, as Yunukovych's regime jailed Julia for corruption. The charges? Signing an anti-economic deal with a '(Soviet cloud) Russian gas company. This would be like Peter Robinson signing a deal with TG4.
Even ignoring the complicated history and the vested interests of our news sources, the antics of the above 3 would sicken anyone. A good start would be to remove them all, but that doesn't seem to be the way things work in the Ukraine.
Yeah she wasnt much of a leader. But she has nice hair. Arlene foster might suit hair like that..?
As usual the "West"(US/GB/Israel + EU) have decided who are the goodies and baddies and were about to repeat their fcukups in Syria/Libya etc.
Putin meanwhile decided it was time to put a stop to Western influence coming too close and also decided it was time to take Crimea back to Mother Russia. Kruschev "gave" Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 or thereabouts. It didn't matter then as it was only for administrative handiness as none of the so called Republics were independent.
I expect the outcome to be Crimea becoming part of Russia and some kind of Federal State in Ukraine getting aid from the EU and Russia.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2014, 10:42:57 AM
As usual the "West"(US/GB/Israel + EU) have decided who are the goodies and baddies and were about to repeat their fcukups in Syria/Libya etc.
Putin meanwhile decided it was time to put a stop to Western influence coming too close and also decided it was time to take Crimea back to Mother Russia. Kruschev "gave" Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 or thereabouts. It didn't matter then as it was only for administrative handiness as none of the so called Republics were independent.
I expect the outcome to be Crimea becoming part of Russia and some kind of Federal State in Ukraine getting aid from the EU and Russia.
You forgot mayo's tatars..tut tut
Quote from: lawnseed on March 04, 2014, 09:46:17 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 04, 2014, 03:00:59 PM
Quote from: southdown on March 04, 2014, 02:37:39 PM
Realistically, how does anyone see this unfolding?
Some sanctions which don't go far enough. New elections in Ukraine, permanent Russian occupation of east Ukraine and Crimea. Fascists take over on local level in west, Orthodox theocrats in the east. China emboldened regarding Taiwan and islands disputed by China, Japan (and the Philippines). US, France, UK, Turkey to take their revenge by airstrikes in Syria. US to arm Baltic nations and Poland.
Turkey might be sold some submarine and naval assets to secure the Bosphorus.
and what about your Tatar mates fuk your troop carrier I got a harse outside
Your contempt for the native people of Crimea is disgusting. By the way you are wrong saying they were exiled because they were "Hitlers friends". 20,000 Tatars fought for the Soviets, 6,000 against. Huge numbers were deported as far back as 1919, also the Russians have had plans to expel these people for centuries who ancestry in the region predates the birth of Rome, it was only the Soviets who had the bare ass nerve to manufacture false pretexts even the Tsars were too embarrased to pull.
Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape
The snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were allegedly hired by Maidan leaders, according to a leaked phone conversation between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign affairs minister, which has emerged online.
UPDATE: Estonian Foreign Ministry confirms authenticity of leaked call
"There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovich, but it was somebody from the new coalition," Urmas Paet said during the conversation.
"I think we do want to investigate. I mean, I didn't pick that up, that's interesting. Gosh," Ashton answered.
The call took place after Estonia's Foreign Minister Urmas Paet visited Kiev on February 25, following the peak of clashes between the pro-EU protesters and security forces in the Ukrainian capital.
Paet also recalled his conversation with a doctor who treated those shot by snipers in Kiev. She said that both protesters and police were shot at by the same people.
"And second, what was quite disturbing, this same Olga [Bogomolets] told as well that all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides," the Estonian FM stressed.
Ashton reacted to the information by saying: "Well, yeah...that's, that's terrible."
"So that she then also showed me some photos she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it's really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened," Paet said.
Olga Bogomolets was the main doctor for the Maidan mobile clinic when protests turned violent in Kiev. She treated the gravely injured and helped organized their transportation to neighboring countries, who had expressed a willingness to treat those with severe wounds. From the outset, Olga blamed the injuries and deaths on snipers. She turned down the position of Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine for Humanitarian Affairs offered by the coup-appointed regime.
The Estonian FM has described the whole sniper issue as "disturbing" and added, "it already discredits from the very beginning" the new Ukrainian power.
His overall impressions of what he saw during his one-day trip to Kiev are "sad," Paet said during the conversation.
He stressed that the Ukrainian people don't trust the Maidan leaders, with all the opposition politicians slated to join the new government "having dirty past."
The file was reportedly uploaded to the web by officers of Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) loyal to ousted President Viktor Yanukovich who hacked Paet's and Ashton's phones.
94 people were killed and another 900 injured during the standoff between police and protesters at Maidan Saquare in Kiev last month.
http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
Quote from: give her dixie on March 05, 2014, 08:48:32 PM
Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape
The snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were allegedly hired by Maidan leaders, according to a leaked phone conversation between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign affairs minister, which has emerged online.
UPDATE: Estonian Foreign Ministry confirms authenticity of leaked call
"There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovich, but it was somebody from the new coalition," Urmas Paet said during the conversation.
"I think we do want to investigate. I mean, I didn't pick that up, that's interesting. Gosh," Ashton answered.
The call took place after Estonia's Foreign Minister Urmas Paet visited Kiev on February 25, following the peak of clashes between the pro-EU protesters and security forces in the Ukrainian capital.
Paet also recalled his conversation with a doctor who treated those shot by snipers in Kiev. She said that both protesters and police were shot at by the same people.
"And second, what was quite disturbing, this same Olga [Bogomolets] told as well that all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides," the Estonian FM stressed.
Ashton reacted to the information by saying: "Well, yeah...that's, that's terrible."
"So that she then also showed me some photos she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it's really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened," Paet said.
Olga Bogomolets was the main doctor for the Maidan mobile clinic when protests turned violent in Kiev. She treated the gravely injured and helped organized their transportation to neighboring countries, who had expressed a willingness to treat those with severe wounds. From the outset, Olga blamed the injuries and deaths on snipers. She turned down the position of Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine for Humanitarian Affairs offered by the coup-appointed regime.
The Estonian FM has described the whole sniper issue as "disturbing" and added, "it already discredits from the very beginning" the new Ukrainian power.
His overall impressions of what he saw during his one-day trip to Kiev are "sad," Paet said during the conversation.
He stressed that the Ukrainian people don't trust the Maidan leaders, with all the opposition politicians slated to join the new government "having dirty past."
The file was reportedly uploaded to the web by officers of Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) loyal to ousted President Viktor Yanukovich who hacked Paet's and Ashton's phones.
94 people were killed and another 900 injured during the standoff between police and protesters at Maidan Saquare in Kiev last month.
http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
were any of them hit by bows and arrows?
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
RT anchor Liz Wahl resigns live on air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h79v9uirLY
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
So, the Ukranian protests are a fascist, anti-semitic conspiracy being organised by Israel. This is all terribly confusing.
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
So, the Ukranian protests are a fascist, anti-semitic conspiracy being organised by Israel. This is all terribly confusing.
The moto of Mossad: "By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Way_of_Deception
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 01:58:47 PM
The moto of Mossad: "By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Way_of_Deception
It's
motto, mate, not
moto.
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
So, the Ukranian protests are a fascist, anti-semitic conspiracy being organised by Israel. This is all terribly confusing.
These conflicts aren't westerns where the good guys wear white and the baddies wear black. A little thought is often required into who's behind what and who stands to gain from it.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 06, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
So, the Ukranian protests are a fascist, anti-semitic conspiracy being organised by Israel. This is all terribly confusing.
These conflicts aren't westerns where the good guys wear white and the baddies wear black. A little thought is often required into who's behind what and who stands to gain from it.
I don't think anybody has said that's the case. It's just that there are clearly some people who think they're putting "a little thought" into things, and are coming to the conclusion that the Russians are the good guys simply because they're blinded by their hatred of the US.
I don't think there are too many good guys involved in this on any side.
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 06, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
So, the Ukranian protests are a fascist, anti-semitic conspiracy being organised by Israel. This is all terribly confusing.
These conflicts aren't westerns where the good guys wear white and the baddies wear black. A little thought is often required into who's behind what and who stands to gain from it.
I don't think anybody has said that's the case. It's just that there are clearly some people who think they're putting "a little thought" into things, and are coming to the conclusion that the Russians are the good guys simply because they're blinded by their hatred of the US.
I don't think there are too many good guys involved in this on any side.
I thought the "crimean" tatars were the goodies? Mgh?
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 08:03:49 AM
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 06, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
So, the Ukranian protests are a fascist, anti-semitic conspiracy being organised by Israel. This is all terribly confusing.
These conflicts aren't westerns where the good guys wear white and the baddies wear black. A little thought is often required into who's behind what and who stands to gain from it.
I don't think anybody has said that's the case. It's just that there are clearly some people who think they're putting "a little thought" into things, and are coming to the conclusion that the Russians are the good guys simply because they're blinded by their hatred of the US.
I don't think there are too many good guys involved in this on any side.
I thought the "crimean" tatars were the goodies? Mgh?
Saw pictures today of Tatars fleeing Crimea for western Ukraine.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 03:57:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 08:03:49 AM
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 06, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
So, the Ukranian protests are a fascist, anti-semitic conspiracy being organised by Israel. This is all terribly confusing.
These conflicts aren't westerns where the good guys wear white and the baddies wear black. A little thought is often required into who's behind what and who stands to gain from it.
I don't think anybody has said that's the case. It's just that there are clearly some people who think they're putting "a little thought" into things, and are coming to the conclusion that the Russians are the good guys simply because they're blinded by their hatred of the US.
I don't think there are too many good guys involved in this on any side.
I thought the "crimean" tatars were the goodies? Mgh?
Saw pictures today of Tatars fleeing Crimea for western Ukraine.
They'll miss the referendum. Dont they have votes?
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:01:17 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 03:57:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 08:03:49 AM
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 06, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 06, 2014, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 06, 2014, 11:57:11 AM
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114#article_comments
So, the Ukranian protests are a fascist, anti-semitic conspiracy being organised by Israel. This is all terribly confusing.
These conflicts aren't westerns where the good guys wear white and the baddies wear black. A little thought is often required into who's behind what and who stands to gain from it.
I don't think anybody has said that's the case. It's just that there are clearly some people who think they're putting "a little thought" into things, and are coming to the conclusion that the Russians are the good guys simply because they're blinded by their hatred of the US.
I don't think there are too many good guys involved in this on any side.
I thought the "crimean" tatars were the goodies? Mgh?
Saw pictures today of Tatars fleeing Crimea for western Ukraine.
They'll miss the referendum. Dont they have votes?
They know (or fear) their fate under Moscow.
Tell me this are these the same ethnic group as the roma gypsies?
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:15:42 PM
Tell me this are these the same ethnic group as the roma gypsies?
No, they (the Roma) are thought to have migrated from northern India, possibly linked to the Domba people.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:15:42 PM
Tell me this are these the same ethnic group as the roma gypsies?
No, they (the Roma) are thought to have migrated from northern India, possibly linked to the Domba people.
So theyre more north mongols perhaps?
We like nordies.. Right??
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:23:37 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:15:42 PM
Tell me this are these the same ethnic group as the roma gypsies?
No, they (the Roma) are thought to have migrated from northern India, possibly linked to the Domba people.
So theyre more north mongols perhaps
We like nordies.. Right??
No connection to the Mongolian or Turkic peoples ::)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 04:28:00 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:23:37 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:15:42 PM
Tell me this are these the same ethnic group as the roma gypsies?
No, they (the Roma) are thought to have migrated from northern India, possibly linked to the Domba people.
So theyre more north mongols perhaps
We like nordies.. Right??
No connection to the Mongolian or Turkic peoples ::)
Theyre gonna be like mexicans as russia continues its 'manifest destiny' or the irish in northern ireland... Red squirrel v grey squirrel
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:59:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 04:28:00 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:23:37 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:15:42 PM
Tell me this are these the same ethnic group as the roma gypsies?
No, they (the Roma) are thought to have migrated from northern India, possibly linked to the Domba people.
So theyre more north mongols perhaps
We like nordies.. Right??
No connection to the Mongolian or Turkic peoples ::)
Theyre gonna be like mexicans as russia continues its 'manifest destiny' or the irish in northern ireland... Red squirrel v grey squirrel
Don't be a cnut all you're life ya tool.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 06:32:26 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:59:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 04:28:00 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:23:37 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2014, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 07, 2014, 04:15:42 PM
Tell me this are these the same ethnic group as the roma gypsies?
No, they (the Roma) are thought to have migrated from northern India, possibly linked to the Domba people.
So theyre more north mongols perhaps
We like nordies.. Right??
No connection to the Mongolian or Turkic peoples ::)
Theyre gonna be like mexicans as russia continues its 'manifest destiny' or the irish in northern ireland... Red squirrel v grey squirrel
Don't be a cnut all you're life ya tool.
I bet they wish they'd have helped the red army instead of the nazis now
The brits did some dirty act in crimea also.. Did they abandon thier allies or something they dont like talking about it
Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.
Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 16, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.
Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.
Israel have been doing this for decades with the full support of the west.
Quote from: give her dixie on March 16, 2014, 08:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 16, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.
Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.
Israel have been doing this for decades with the full support of the west.
O I agree, Russia and Israel would make good bedfellows.
So the people of Crimea have spoken but yet the western government have spit the dummy.
Does anyone think that if the people of the north voted to leave the union that it would just happen.
Quote from: Hereiam on March 18, 2014, 05:04:56 PM
So the people of Crimea have spoken but yet the western government have spit the dummy.
Does anyone think that if the people of the north voted to leave the union that it would just happen.
I'm sure there are lots of heads spinning whilst trying to draw a parallel with the british occupation of the six counties. Which statement is more correct?
1) The Russian intervention in Crimea is like Britain taking control of the six counties, so as to look after their british citizens in a United Russia (aka Soviet Union)
2) The Russian intervention in Crimea is like Ireland's desire to look after their citizens in the occupied six.
Unfortunately for us, number 2 is a pathetic toothless desire and they are happy to leave us where we are.
Tatars 12%? Why didnt they vote
people tend to forget this is how some mucker called Hitler got his start on the road, Putin i doubt suffers from that wee man Napoleon complex. This region could have rejoined Russia after the break up of the old soviet union and guess what, Russia didn't want them. Had this happened before the socchi winter games many teams would not have went.
This guy is a fossil of the cold war, expect some sort of move on east Ukraine next year.
Quote from: lawnseed on March 18, 2014, 06:14:00 PM
Tatars 12%? Why didnt they vote
Didn't the majority of the Ukrainians and the Tatars vote to leave the Ukraine?
97% voted to leave the Ukraine, some 83% of the electorate voted, 1.27m voted.
That means approx 260.000 of the electorate did not vote.
Even in the impossible to achieve scenario that ALL the 918,000 Russian eligible voters, actually voted in the referendum,
that leaves at least 315,000 votes coming from the combined Ukrainians and Tatars electorate.
That means at least over 50% of the combined Ukrainian and Tatars electorate, voted yes.
does that mean the counties of Derry, fermanagh and Armagh can vote to be come part of the republic? People thinking this vote is fair are kidding themselves, can the basque country hold their break away vote and leave spain, that count to?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 18, 2014, 07:51:31 PM
does that mean the counties of Derry, fermanagh and Armagh can vote to be come part of the republic? People thinking this vote is fair are kidding themselves, can the basque country hold their break away vote and leave spain, that count to?
I replied to one statement/question.
I gave a reply which contains pertinent details. In that reply I claimed that a majority of the minority ethnic groups in the autonomous republic of Crimes voted to leave the Ukraine.
You are offering a straw man argument in reply.
Unlike the forced annexation by the USSR of the Baltic states in WW2, where the (scúm of the earth) Bolsheviks planted hundreds of thousands of loyal Russian 'proletariats', but not enough to become a majority and prevent independence in the 1990's, Crimea was always (for the most part) Russian and for the least part Ukranian. How Crimea ended up in the Ukraine is one of those quirks of USSR history.
sure did they not request to be part of russia after the fall of the soviet unuion? and guess what Russia didnt want them, what changed there tune now, except a man on a power trip
QuoteCrimea was always (for the most part) Russian
Bollix. There were feck all Russians there until the 19th century, since when they substantially ethnically cleansed the place.
Quote from: give her dixie on March 16, 2014, 08:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 16, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.
Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.
Israel have been doing this for decades with the full support of the west.
Always looking for the jewish angle .... ::) . Does every world conflict involve a jewish/US conspiracy ?
You sad anti-Semitic ****.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2014, 09:20:59 PM
QuoteCrimea was always (for the most part) Russian
Bollix. There were feck all Russians there until the 19th century, since when they substantially ethnically cleansed the place.
Russia had control of the place since 1800 and Russians moved in, Tatars were 'moved out'.
It's not an artificially created statelet to ensure a russian majority. And that autonomous state was somehow thrown into the Ukraine for some strange reason. It actually should have stayed in the Russian federation or become independent in 1992.
As I pointed out, according to the maths of the referendum, even a majority of the small ethnic groups would prefer moving towards the Russia federation than remaining in the Ukraine. There is no evidence of the vote being rigged but plenty of evidence that the vote was regular.
Why do Ukraine have to be the masters of the Crimea?
What changed public opinion in the Crimea .
from May 2013
http://iri.org/sites/default/files/2013%20October%207%20Survey%20of%20Crimean%20Public%20Opinion,%20May%2016-30,%202013.pdf
with a non hostile (pro Russian) Ukrainian president at the helm.
59% have Russian ethnicity and 82% use Russian language in their homes. Opinion went from over half of the total population content with their autonomous status inside the Ukraine with just a 25% minority wanting to join Russia federation, to 85% for joining the Russia federation March 2014
This issue is to do with Crimea and just what swung their opinion that way? Ukraine are not endowed with a mandate from God to be the masters of Crimea. Crimians have their own opinion on that matter. Why did Crimians swing so radically towards Russia? Maybe what was happening in Ukraine was not viewed in the same light in Crimea? And the first hit the new gov in Ukraine did was against the Russian language didn't help perceptions? Maybe Crimea being a relatively poor region were not keen for EU austerity?
QuoteRussia had control of the place since 1800 and Russians moved in, Tatars were 'moved out'.
That's what I said, so we agree that the Russians were not "always" there.
QuoteIt's not an artificially created statelet to ensure a russian majority
Oh right, why were the Tatars moved out then?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2014, 12:34:45 AM
QuoteRussia had control of the place since 1800 and Russians moved in, Tatars were 'moved out'.
That's what I said, so we agree that the Russians were not "always" there.
QuoteIt's not an artificially created statelet to ensure a russian majority
Oh right, why were the Tatars moved out then?
That's another question and doesn't address what I wrote, nor does an answer to your question, challenge what I wrote.
In feudal times, Crimea was a new defined independent region but also newly unallied and unprotected. It was not an artificial statelet created out of a larger state to ensure a Russian majority. It existed before Russia swallowed it, plundered the Tatars and started the process of colonisation from 1800 onwards. Even in the Ukraine, Crimea had the status of an autonomous state.
Why were the Tatars moved out to begin with? Feudal times, feudal values, expansion, war, plunder, rape, pillage, a process that continued in various forms for another 160 years.
And that has little to do with the reality of 3 ethnic groups living in this autonomous region, voting to enter the Russian federation.
What matters most is how the minority ethnic groups in a region are treated, not discriminated re language, culture, education and employment.
The 3 Baltic states have a very similar history together, but were a much different proposition than Crimea in their ability to declare independence post USSR.
http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/ (http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/)
Play the above video.
Stop it whenever you choose and use this as the basis for an argument on the true borders of a given country.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 18, 2014, 11:01:06 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 16, 2014, 08:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 16, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.
Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.
Israel have been doing this for decades with the full support of the west.
Always looking for the jewish angle .... ::) . Does every world conflict involve a jewish/US conspiracy ?
You sad anti-Semitic ****.
He's just pointing out what Israel has been at since 1967. Just facts you sad blinkered pro Israeli Kerryman.
As for Crimea wasn't it Kruschev ( a Ukranian??) gave Crimea to Ukraine when he became boss?
It didn't matter then as all the "Republics" were just County Council type things implementing politburo policy locally.
Right wing pro-Ukraine thugs filmed themselves forcing (quite aggressively) the head of the Ukraine state broadcaster to resign.
Ukrainian soldier shot in the Crimea.
Russian war-games and missile tests near Ukrainian border.
US-Poland war-games taking place.
US-Romania Navies completed exercise.
US-Baltic Navies planning war-games.
France planning to cancel it's sale of 2 Helicopter Carriers and several Mistral helicopters to Russia.
Crimean vote to leave Ukraine.
Tatar and Ukrainian boycott of vote.
Protesters in Moscow demanding their government stop.
Rising public voice in the West for Western governments to stop.
This is not going well at all.
Rising public voice in the West? By the ladeens who go marching for every issue under the sun? The Russians will get the Crimea and we'll all forget about it in a few years. There's no appetite for a real confrontation - hell, even Ukraine themselves aren't up for it - and Putin knows that very well.
Crimea was always going to be a lost cause, that's not what's at stake for the West or Russia. There are greater fish to fry and nobody is going to weep that much for Crimea and Russia already had a military treaty to secure the naval base in Sevastopol.
The coup in the Ukraine has put a spanner in the works, Russia won't be able to destabilise it so easily now.
.
Surely any popular movements to reform Belarus are now dead.
Can Russia seriously be expected to negotiate with a bunch of unelected fascist thugs who are self declared Russian and Jew haters. Had the Russian foreign ninister Lavrov suggestion of a proper legal election in Ukraine followed by three way talks between the Russia,the West and the ukranians been followed, then the present volatile situation could have been avoided. Giving Russias legitimate strategic interests,, Putin had little option but to react as he did.
Why did he invade Georgia, yet has no problem with the quasi-dictators in Minsk or Almaty?
This all reminds me of the Bay of Pigs, Saddam's venture into Kuwait and Peter Robinson's invasion of Clontibret.
In response to an unprovoked attack on the Capital of South Ossettia by land and air bombardment, in the course of which large numbers of civilians and a number of U.N. authorised Russian peace keeping troops were killed. The action against Georgia was short lived, and Russian troops withdrew once the crisis was dealt with
Quoteand Russian troops withdrew once the crisis was dealt with
Once the necessary intimidation was achieved.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 18, 2014, 07:09:26 PM
people tend to forget this is how some mucker called Hitler got his start on the road, Putin i doubt suffers from that wee man Napoleon complex. This region could have rejoined Russia after the break up of the old soviet union and guess what, Russia didn't want them. Had this happened before the socchi winter games many teams would not have went.
This guy is a fossil of the cold war, expect some sort of move on east Ukraine next year.
I wonder what the story is with East Ukraine? I mean isn't there a precedent set here now with Crimea, that I'm sure East Ukraine will want to finish? (When I say East Ukraine, I mean the pro-Russian people of East Ukraine). Putin is probably eyeing up more as well...
Lets hope Germany doesn't plan on liberating all those Germans in Russia.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2014, 02:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 18, 2014, 11:01:06 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 16, 2014, 08:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 16, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.
Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.
Israel have been doing this for decades with the full support of the west.
Always looking for the jewish angle .... ::) . Does every world conflict involve a jewish/US conspiracy ?
You sad anti-Semitic ****.
He's just pointing out what Israel has been at since 1967. Just facts you sad blinkered pro Israeli Kerryman.
As for Crimea wasn't it Kruschev ( a Ukranian??) gave Crimea to Ukraine when he became boss?
It didn't matter then as all the "Republics" were just County Council type things implementing politburo policy locally.
Calling out an anti-Semite does not make one pro-Israel you sad sack putin-apologist.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 19, 2014, 10:44:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2014, 02:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 18, 2014, 11:01:06 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on March 16, 2014, 08:44:16 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 16, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
Russians are some cowboys, occupation of Crimea, bring in a vote to transfer Ukranian territory and the Tatar homeland (a people they have ethnically cleansed) into Russia.
Next year Russia is introducing a new law which makes advocating separatism a criminal offence.
Israel have been doing this for decades with the full support of the west.
Always looking for the jewish angle .... ::) . Does every world conflict involve a jewish/US conspiracy ?
You sad anti-Semitic ****.
He's just pointing out what Israel has been at since 1967. Just facts you sad blinkered pro Israeli Kerryman.
As for Crimea wasn't it Kruschev ( a Ukranian??) gave Crimea to Ukraine when he became boss?
It didn't matter then as all the "Republics" were just County Council type things implementing politburo policy locally.
Calling out an anti-Semite does not make one pro-Israel you sad sack putin-apologist.
Mike, you cant be polished because you cannot polish a turd!!!!
You are pro Israeli as I once was, the problem is you have not the stones to admit it!!!
Quote from: muppet on March 19, 2014, 02:19:14 PM
http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/ (http://loiter.co/v/watch-as-1000years-of-european-boarders-change/)
Play the above video.
Stop it whenever you choose and use this as the basis for an argument on the true borders of a given country.
What is your point ? Are you saying that the history illustrated in the above video invalidates any currently existing borders ?
the last major redrawings of those borders were the end of world war two, the crisis In the Balkans and the fall of the Soviet Union. Is there a particular border that you disagree with ?
Now thing are hotting up. (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/03/us-freezes-putins-netflix-account.html?intcid=obnetwork)
Quote from: Hardy on March 26, 2014, 05:31:53 PM
Now thing are hotting up. (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/03/us-freezes-putins-netflix-account.html?intcid=obnetwork)
I'll really miss sky and the sky during the nuclear winter
Bit of craic in Ukraine today. Apparently some right wingers didn't like the communist's take on things, so they decided to f**k him down from the podium. Then a bit of a schmozzle broke out. Good job Klitschko wasn't there! By the way, that lad that's throwing most of the punches is wearing a light blue jacket with elbow patches :) His face is familiar. Was he on the bench for Derrytresk a couple of years ago?
http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/video-fists-fly-in-ukraine-parliament-627308.html (http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/video-fists-fly-in-ukraine-parliament-627308.html)
The Ukrainian County Board will have to hand down serious suspensions here.
Interesting article on Ukraine:
http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2014/05/british-interests-ukraine/ (http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2014/05/british-interests-ukraine/)
With the drop in fuel prices and resultant pressure on the Rouble (and presumably the ecomic viability of fracking) I had been reading up on the current "peace" in Ukraine.
I had been aware of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth and that they had controlled part of Ukraine and that the Russian empire had controlled the remainder. What I didn't realise was that it was only in the 1920's that the 2 Ukraines were united and even then with 2 separate governments. With such a recent formation I am surprised that a re-partition (much as happened in Sudan) has not been suggested as a way out of the current tug of war between Putin and the EU.
Things looking pretty dodgy at the minute. I'm not fully au fait with the ins and outs of it all but it would seem that whilst on the one hand it looks like the Russians interfering in the affairs of a sovereign state, on the other hand you can see their concerns. We all know how the US reacted over Cuba. I'd like to think common sense might prevail but it's not looking good. I don't know why Ukraine is looking to join NATO given the risks but then again I'm no diplomat.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 21, 2022, 04:02:40 PM
Things looking pretty dodgy at the minute. I'm not fully au fait with the ins and outs of it all but it would seem that whilst on the one hand it looks like the Russians interfering in the affairs of a sovereign state, on the other hand you can see their concerns. We all know how the US reacted over Cuba. I'd like to think common sense might prevail but it's not looking good. I don't know why Ukraine is looking to join NATO given the risks but then again I'm no diplomat.
A great listen, also available on Spotify etc.
https://thestandwitheamondunphy.com/episode/1306/
Eamo has put out 7 or 8 top notch podcasts this year on politics, and his footy pods where he mollycoddles Giles and Brady are a laugh sometimes, Big Jack invented the gegenpress you know ;)
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 21, 2022, 04:02:40 PM
Things looking pretty dodgy at the minute. I'm not fully au fait with the ins and outs of it all but it would seem that whilst on the one hand it looks like the Russians interfering in the affairs of a sovereign state, on the other hand you can see their concerns. We all know how the US reacted over Cuba. I'd like to think common sense might prevail but it's not looking good. I don't know why Ukraine is looking to join NATO given the risks but then again I'm no diplomat.
Ukraine is either a sovereign state or it isn't. If it accepts that Russia has a veto on which international organisations it can join then its little more than a client state. A colony. How would you feel if Westminster tried to dictate what kind of international relations Ireland has?
Russia merely trying to strong arm larger and more successful world powers into concessions. It's a bluff but the problem is that they haven't planned a way out of their escalation if they don't get their way. Without concessions they're forced into an embarrassing climb down which the regime would not survive.
They intended all this as a bluff but it becoming increasingly clear the only option let to them is war.
How many American missiles are pointing at Russia along its borders? Conversely how many Russian missiles are pointing at America along its borders? If the Americans hadn't overthrown the elected government & replaced it(with a neo-Nazi regime no less) under Obama, would this situation really be happening? I suppose the west needs to occupy itself somehow not that Afghanistan is finito
Quote from: general_lee on January 22, 2022, 10:56:47 AM
How many American missiles are pointing at Russia along its borders? Conversely how many Russian missiles are pointing at America along its borders? If the Americans hadn't overthrown the elected government & replaced it(with a neo-Nazi regime no less) under Obama, would this situation really be happening? I suppose the west needs to occupy itself somehow not that Afghanistan is finito
I note the Russians are not calling for free elections in the Ukraine to resolve things.
Putin is banking on splitting the EU.
So when will Russia invade?
Always found the whole West vs Russia thing strange. America put nuclear missiles in Turkey pointed at Russia. Russia responds by putting nukes in Cuba and the whole world reacts and almost starts ww3. They literally just did what the Americans did.
Also Russia does war games in international waters off Ireland and the whole world reacts. USA does war games throughout the world including near China and Russia and not a peep.
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 25, 2022, 02:10:31 PM
Always found the whole West vs Russia thing strange. America put nuclear missiles in Turkey pointed at Russia. Russia responds by putting nukes in Cuba and the whole world reacts and almost starts ww3. They literally just did what the Americans did.
Also Russia does war games in international waters off Ireland and the whole world reacts. USA does war games throughout the world including near China and Russia and not a peep.
Except you forgot to mention that Ukraine want US help and they don't want Russia coming into their country just like most other Eastern bloc countries that were under the Soviet jackboot for 50 yrs. Funny that.
Why are the Russians so humpy anyway? It is just a post imperial thing like Britain? They used to have a distinct political philosophy to export, but now they are just a medium sized bully when they should be getting together to oppose China.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 25, 2022, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 25, 2022, 02:10:31 PM
Always found the whole West vs Russia thing strange. America put nuclear missiles in Turkey pointed at Russia. Russia responds by putting nukes in Cuba and the whole world reacts and almost starts ww3. They literally just did what the Americans did.
Also Russia does war games in international waters off Ireland and the whole world reacts. USA does war games throughout the world including near China and Russia and not a peep.
Except you forgot to mention that Ukraine want US help and they don't want Russia coming into their country just like most other Eastern bloc countries that were under the Soviet jackboot for 50 yrs. Funny that.
I didn't forget about it at all. I didn't mention it because between Britain and USA they have invaded or started more wars than any other country in the world.
Also i didn't have anything to do with the 2 points I raised. Don't tell me you believe the West are the saviours of the world helping out small countries due to the goodness of their hearts.
Quote from: general_lee on January 22, 2022, 10:56:47 AM
How many American missiles are pointing at Russia along its borders? Conversely how many Russian missiles are pointing at America along its borders? If the Americans hadn't overthrown the elected government & replaced it(with a neo-Nazi regime no less) under Obama, would this situation really be happening? I suppose the west needs to occupy itself somehow not that Afghanistan is finito
[/quote?
How many Russian missiles are pointed at European capitals?
The refrain of the USA having "overthrown the elected government & replaced it (with a neo-Nazi regime)" is straight from RT, even by Russian standards it's bog standard propaganda.
Since the overthrow of the pro Russian government in 2014, pro Russian and pro communist era type international media have labelled the then broadly popular pro EU movement and subsequent Ukrainian governments as being fascist led and pro nazi.The modern history of Ukraine is much more nuanced than those old refrains dating from WW2 and which equated being anti bolshevik with pro nazi.
While the Ukraine 'cause' is proving to be a rallying cry for UR militia types to get involved, the ultra right coalition have received scant political support, in both of the most recent presidential and general elections they polled less than 2%.
Struggling to see the plus side in this for Russia. Maybe grab those eastern areas with majority Russian people, then what? Talk of taking Kiev is surely nonsense. Ukraine has 40 million people and is armed to the teeth. If a few hundred lads here with limited resources caused mayhem for Britain for 30 yrs then what the hell would happen over there?
The bottom line is Russia is 100% to blame for this crisis. It's time the west stood up to them properly.
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2022, 05:42:59 PM
How many Russian missiles are pointed at European capitals?
The refrain of the USA having "overthrown the elected government & replaced it (with a neo-Nazi regime)" is straight from RT, even by Russian standards it's bog standard propaganda.
Since the overthrow of the pro Russian government in 2014, pro Russian and pro communist era type international media have labelled the then broadly popular pro EU movement and subsequent Ukrainian governments as being fascist led and pro nazi.The modern history of Ukraine is much more nuanced than those old refrains dating from WW2 and which equated being anti bolshevik with pro nazi.
While the Ukraine 'cause' is proving to be a rallying cry for UR militia types to get involved, the ultra right coalition have received scant political support, in both of the most recent presidential and general elections they polled less than 2%.
Hmm more like Reuters... the Azov battalions have been absorbed into the Ukrainian military. They don't need nor want political support, not when they're on the same hymn sheet as the government - bit like the (then legal) UDA here in the north back in the 1980s.
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:04:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2022, 05:42:59 PM
How many Russian missiles are pointed at European capitals?
The refrain of the USA having "overthrown the elected government & replaced it (with a neo-Nazi regime)" is straight from RT, even by Russian standards it's bog standard propaganda.
Since the overthrow of the pro Russian government in 2014, pro Russian and pro communist era type international media have labelled the then broadly popular pro EU movement and subsequent Ukrainian governments as being fascist led and pro nazi.The modern history of Ukraine is much more nuanced than those old refrains dating from WW2 and which equated being anti bolshevik with pro nazi.
While the Ukraine 'cause' is proving to be a rallying cry for UR militia types to get involved, the ultra right coalition have received scant political support, in both of the most recent presidential and general elections they polled less than 2%.
Hmm more like Reuters... the Azov battalions have been absorbed into the Ukrainian military. They don't need nor want political support, not when they're on the same hymn sheet as the government - bit like the (then legal) UDA here in the north back in the 1980s.
The entire ideology guiding Russia and Putin is Nazi-like. They want empire.
Ukraine has a Jewish President and until recently a Jewish Prime Minister too.
Russia has no business interfering in Ukraine.
To say it has is to say that the Brits should malevolently interfere in the business of the Irish state.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 10:37:00 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:04:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2022, 05:42:59 PM
How many Russian missiles are pointed at European capitals?
The refrain of the USA having "overthrown the elected government & replaced it (with a neo-Nazi regime)" is straight from RT, even by Russian standards it's bog standard propaganda.
Since the overthrow of the pro Russian government in 2014, pro Russian and pro communist era type international media have labelled the then broadly popular pro EU movement and subsequent Ukrainian governments as being fascist led and pro nazi.The modern history of Ukraine is much more nuanced than those old refrains dating from WW2 and which equated being anti bolshevik with pro nazi.
While the Ukraine 'cause' is proving to be a rallying cry for UR militia types to get involved, the ultra right coalition have received scant political support, in both of the most recent presidential and general elections they polled less than 2%.
Hmm more like Reuters... the Azov battalions have been absorbed into the Ukrainian military. They don't need nor want political support, not when they're on the same hymn sheet as the government - bit like the (then legal) UDA here in the north back in the 1980s.
The entire ideology guiding Russia and Putin is Nazi-like. They want empire.
Ukraine has a Jewish President and until recently a Jewish Prime Minister too.
Russia has no business interfering in Ukraine.
To say it has is to say that the Brits should malevolently interfere in the business of the Irish state.
Russia has as much business interfering in Ukraine as the west has interfering in any other country.
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 01:57:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 10:37:00 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:04:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2022, 05:42:59 PM
How many Russian missiles are pointed at European capitals?
The refrain of the USA having "overthrown the elected government & replaced it (with a neo-Nazi regime)" is straight from RT, even by Russian standards it's bog standard propaganda.
Since the overthrow of the pro Russian government in 2014, pro Russian and pro communist era type international media have labelled the then broadly popular pro EU movement and subsequent Ukrainian governments as being fascist led and pro nazi.The modern history of Ukraine is much more nuanced than those old refrains dating from WW2 and which equated being anti bolshevik with pro nazi.
While the Ukraine 'cause' is proving to be a rallying cry for UR militia types to get involved, the ultra right coalition have received scant political support, in both of the most recent presidential and general elections they polled less than 2%.
Hmm more like Reuters... the Azov battalions have been absorbed into the Ukrainian military. They don't need nor want political support, not when they're on the same hymn sheet as the government - bit like the (then legal) UDA here in the north back in the 1980s.
The entire ideology guiding Russia and Putin is Nazi-like. They want empire.
Ukraine has a Jewish President and until recently a Jewish Prime Minister too.
Russia has no business interfering in Ukraine.
To say it has is to say that the Brits should malevolently interfere in the business of the Irish state.
Russia has as much business interfering in Ukraine as the west has interfering in any other country.
You're deflecting with irrelevant red herrings.
Ukraine has democratically chosen to align itself with the west.
Russia denies it should it should have that right. Putin openly denies the right to Ukrainian statehood.
Russia is entirely in the wrong.
It is a warmongering, imperialist, criminal state.
The west has a duty to uphold Ukrainian independence (it is already partly occupied by the Russian mafia state) and Ukrainina interests. If it does not do so it will have failed in its moral duty.
The simple fact is anybody who is not in support of Ukraine's independence and its democracy and its right to align itself the way it wants - with the west - is de facto pro-war, pro-imperialism, pro-dictatorship, anti-the rights of smaller nations and anti-democracy.
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 02:56:40 PM
The simple fact is anybody who is not in support of Ukraine's independence and its democracy and its right to align itself the way it wants - with the west - is de facto pro-war, pro-imperialism, pro-dictatorship, anti-the rights of smaller nations and anti-democracy.
So whats your take on Cuba then...?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2022, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 02:56:40 PM
The simple fact is anybody who is not in support of Ukraine's independence and its democracy and its right to align itself the way it wants - with the west - is de facto pro-war, pro-imperialism, pro-dictatorship, anti-the rights of smaller nations and anti-democracy.
So whats your take on Cuba then...?
Cuba is totally and utterly irrelevant to this discussion.
Have you got anything to contribute to the topic except an attempt at dumb whataboutery?
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 08:59:02 PM
Cuba is totally and utterly irrelevant to this discussion.
You don't set the boundaries of this discussion nor is Cuba irrelevant.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 08:59:02 PM
Have you got anything to contribute to the topic except an attempt at dumb whataboutery?
You don't even have the brains to come back with Cuba's lack of democratic elections.
But your obviously quite happy to see the general population punished by their neighbouring states.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2022, 09:22:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 08:59:02 PM
Cuba is totally and utterly irrelevant to this discussion.
You don't set the boundaries of this discussion nor is Cuba irrelevant.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 08:59:02 PM
Have you got anything to contribute to the topic except an attempt at dumb whataboutery?
You don't even have the brains to come back with Cuba's lack of democratic elections.
But your obviously quite happy to see the general population punished by their neighbouring states.
Last time I looked, Cuba was not near Ukraine.
Thanks for the insult.
If you want to give a relevant reply, I'm all ears.
Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe. It is hopelessly corrupt. And it has Russia as a neighbour. In the 1930s Stalin set off a famine there and the 1940s featured the Holocaust and a Nazi Occupation. Stalin came back after WW2. Now Putin wants to take the whole country back into Moscow's orbit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLddbrzsHk
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 09:41:48 PM
Last time I looked, Cuba was not near Ukraine.
Thanks for the insult.
If you want to give a relevant reply, I'm all ears.
Your some boy to be yapping about insults. Everything you touch on this board rapidly descends into poison.
Its nice to see you can at least read a map.
Of course, you've nothing substantive on why its OK for some countries to put Cubans through the mill and not OK for others to put Ukraine through a similar mill.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2022, 10:01:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 09:41:48 PM
Last time I looked, Cuba was not near Ukraine.
Thanks for the insult.
If you want to give a relevant reply, I'm all ears.
Your some boy to be yapping about insults. Everything you touch on this board rapidly descends into poison.
Its nice to see you can at least read a map.
Of course, you've nothing substantive on why its OK for some countries to put Cubans through the mill and not OK for others to put Ukraine through a similar mill.
You're some boy to talk about "substantive" posts when you decide that a thread about Ukraine should not be about Ukraine and instead be about Cuba.
Poison, eh? Is that a nod to the favourite execution technique of the Russians?
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Indeed they have no right. No right at all.
Here's the thing, when you hear somebody waffling about NATO it's a dead giveaway that they're all they're here to do is to spout bullshit Russian whataboutery and propaganda.
NATO exists for a reason.
Russia is proving the reason for NATO's existence is a very good one indeed.
A non-NATO member on Russia's doorstep is already occupied and threatened with a coup and the installation of a Russian puppet regime and/or full occupation. For having the temerity to not be a vassal state.
Next door in Belarus, the people voted out their authoritarian leader in 2020, and his response was to reject the democratic wishes of the people, go full tyrant and invite the Russians in.
Russia interfered in Georgia and Moldova in order to hobble them on the international stage. Now it's done the same in Kazakhstan.
The lesson is - have the temerity to be a democracy or look like you might become a democracy, and Russia will crush you with its jackboots.
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Didn't the Americans help topple the pro-Russian government in Ukraine only with the last decade? No mention of that from most people.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 10:38:23 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Indeed they have no right. No right at all.
Here's the thing, when you hear somebody waffling about NATO it's a dead giveaway that they're all they're here to do is to spout bullshit Russian whataboutery and propaganda.
NATO exists for a reason.
Russia is proving the reason for NATO's existence is a very good one indeed.
A non-NATO member on Russia's doorstep is already occupied and threatened with a coup and the installation of a Russian puppet regime and/or full occupation. For having the temerity to not be a vassal state.
Next door in Belarus, the people voted out their authoritarian leader in 2020, and his response was to reject the democratic wishes of the people, go full tyrant and invite the Russians in.
Russia interfered in Georgia and Moldova in order to hobble them on the international stage. Now it's done the same in Kazakhstan.
The lesson is - have the temerity to be a democracy or look like you might become a democracy, and Russia will crush you with its jackboots.
Russia is paranoid. So are Israel and Poland.
World War 2 never ended.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 27, 2022, 07:43:54 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Didn't the Americans help topple the pro-Russian government in Ukraine only with the last decade? No mention of that from most people.
Also no mention of the massive coordinated training exercises by NATO in a non-member state right next door to Russia. Of course mentioning facts like this makes you a Russian propagandist 😂
Im guessing alot of lads here would have then supported Britains right to "defend" itself against the Irish threat for hundreds of years
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 27, 2022, 09:31:37 AM
Im guessing alot of lads here would have then supported Britains right to "defend" itself against the Irish threat for hundreds of years
Some are still defending it, even when they were for the Irish struggle and then changed their minds and were supporting the Brits 'struggle'
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 27, 2022, 07:43:54 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Didn't the Americans help topple the pro-Russian government in Ukraine only with the last decade? No mention of that from most people.
The pro-Russian president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, turned his guns on peaceful protestors on the Maidan in 2014, slaughtered dozens, and then fled to Russia.
Yanukovych was a puppet of Putin and a murderous traitor.
This is the sort of guy youse Russia lovers uphold as their idea of "democracy" (ie. not democracy at all).
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
Quote from: seafoid on January 27, 2022, 08:06:08 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 10:38:23 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Indeed they have no right. No right at all.
Here's the thing, when you hear somebody waffling about NATO it's a dead giveaway that they're all they're here to do is to spout bullshit Russian whataboutery and propaganda.
NATO exists for a reason.
Russia is proving the reason for NATO's existence is a very good one indeed.
A non-NATO member on Russia's doorstep is already occupied and threatened with a coup and the installation of a Russian puppet regime and/or full occupation. For having the temerity to not be a vassal state.
Next door in Belarus, the people voted out their authoritarian leader in 2020, and his response was to reject the democratic wishes of the people, go full tyrant and invite the Russians in.
Russia interfered in Georgia and Moldova in order to hobble them on the international stage. Now it's done the same in Kazakhstan.
The lesson is - have the temerity to be a democracy or look like you might become a democracy, and Russia will crush you with its jackboots.
Russia is paranoid. So are Israel and Poland.
World War 2 never ended.
Much like their allies the Serbs, Putin and the Russian regime are driven by a perpetual state of victimhood and self-pity. Russia is a fundamentally unserious country. In their own minds they could never have done any wrong. Putin is a criminal tyrant who has raped the Russian people and Russian society of its resources. As regards foreign policy his ideology is that of a petulant four year old. He genuinely believes that Russia has a God given right to control other countries as it likes.
It is absolutely hilarious to see self styled anti-imperialists weigh in to defend the arch-imperialists.
Quote from: general_lee on January 27, 2022, 08:47:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 27, 2022, 07:43:54 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Didn't the Americans help topple the pro-Russian government in Ukraine only with the last decade? No mention of that from most people.
Also no mention of the massive coordinated training exercises by NATO in a non-member state right next door to Russia. Of course mentioning facts like this makes you a Russian propagandist 😂
More waffling about NATO. Yawn. NATO is an international treaty organisation which exists precisely of the threat which we are seeing in real time from Russia. Russia itself has proven beyond doubt the necessity for NATO. Like, duh.
And the case for Ireland joining NATO grows by the day, especially given what the Russians have planned for off our coast.
Russia propagandists hate NATO because they quite rightly took action against Russia's allies the Serbs, who were in the process of genociding Kosovar Albanians.
That that genocide couldn't continue really sticks in the craw of the Russia propagandists.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
It's hard for "the west" to take the moral high ground with Russia and what they're doing to Ukraine when they all sit and do nothing with the US and their ongoing actions in Cuba.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 27, 2022, 08:47:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 27, 2022, 07:43:54 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Didn't the Americans help topple the pro-Russian government in Ukraine only with the last decade? No mention of that from most people.
Also no mention of the massive coordinated training exercises by NATO in a non-member state right next door to Russia. Of course mentioning facts like this makes you a Russian propagandist 😂
More waffling about NATO. Yawn. NATO is an international treaty organisation which exists precisely of the threat which we are seeing in real time from Russia. Russia itself has proven beyond doubt the necessity for NATO. Like, duh.
And the case for Ireland joining NATO grows by the day, especially given what the Russians have planned for off our coast.
Russia propagandists hate NATO because they quite rightly took action against Russia's allies the Serbs, who were in the process of genociding Kosovar Albanians.
That that genocide couldn't continue really sticks in the craw of the Russia propagandists.
More waffling? It's context you clampet. I know what NATO is, they were literally carrying out military exercises to simulate the event of a war with Russia on Russia's doorstep ffs. You can't dismiss me pointing out all this posturing as "waffle". I'm not a propagandist, as if I really give two fucks what you or anyone on this board believe about Russia! And with that I bid you a goodbye, enjoy penning your reply but I won't be reading or responding to it. Past experience has taught me you are a complete mentalist with too much time on your hands :D
Quote from: general_lee on January 27, 2022, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 27, 2022, 08:47:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 27, 2022, 07:43:54 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
I'm not deflecting. Russia has no right to do any of those things, same way the west doesn't (but it doesn't stop them)
What Russia is and has been doing is no different to what NATO has done.
Didn't the Americans help topple the pro-Russian government in Ukraine only with the last decade? No mention of that from most people.
Also no mention of the massive coordinated training exercises by NATO in a non-member state right next door to Russia. Of course mentioning facts like this makes you a Russian propagandist 😂
More waffling about NATO. Yawn. NATO is an international treaty organisation which exists precisely of the threat which we are seeing in real time from Russia. Russia itself has proven beyond doubt the necessity for NATO. Like, duh.
And the case for Ireland joining NATO grows by the day, especially given what the Russians have planned for off our coast.
Russia propagandists hate NATO because they quite rightly took action against Russia's allies the Serbs, who were in the process of genociding Kosovar Albanians.
That that genocide couldn't continue really sticks in the craw of the Russia propagandists.
More waffling? It's context you clampet. I know what NATO is, they were literally carrying out military exercises to simulate the event of a war with Russia on Russia's doorstep ffs. You can't dismiss me pointing out all this posturing as "waffle". I'm not a propagandist, as if I really give two fucks what you or anyone on this board believe about Russia! And with that I bid you a goodbye, enjoy penning your reply but I won't be reading or responding to it. Past experience has taught me you are a complete mentalist with too much time on your hands :D
More waffle.
Ukraine is not a NATO member.
So what's Russia's position?
"We're invading a non-NATO member because we don't like NATO, which exists because of our war mongering since 1945?"
Sums it up, doesn't it?
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 12:24:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
It's hard for "the west" to take the moral high ground with Russia and what they're doing to Ukraine when they all sit and do nothing with the US and their ongoing actions in Cuba.
The US doesn't occupy Cuba. Nobody occupies Cuba.
Is "Cuba" all you've got to whatabout about Russian war mongering?
The sum position of you and several other posters here is the Mick Wallace/Claire Daly one, ie. "US bad, Russia good", repeat repeat repeat like a zombie.
Wallace and Daly are a f**king embarrassment to the Ireland. I hope for their sakes they're getting paid well by Russia to act as cheerleaders.
Youse lot here aren't, yis are just useful eejits.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Let's say in a few years' time a united Ireland is democratically voted for, and the Loyalists decide they want to create a "Ballymena Peoples Republic" and a "Newtownards People's Republic", and the Brits arm them, and the local nuts shoot down a civilian airliner using British weapons, and the Brits invade County Armagh and County Louth and decide to call it part of Britain.
And continually undermine the Dublin government and threaten to invade the whole island again.
I presume you'll be supporting the Brits and the Loyalists in that case.
Because it would be directly analogous to what Ukraine has had done to it by Russia.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 01:33:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 12:24:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
It's hard for "the west" to take the moral high ground with Russia and what they're doing to Ukraine when they all sit and do nothing with the US and their ongoing actions in Cuba.
The US doesn't occupy Cuba. Nobody occupies Cuba.
Is "Cuba" all you've got to whatabout about Russian war mongering?
The sum position of you and several other posters here is the Mick Wallace/Claire Daly one, ie. "US bad, Russia good", repeat repeat repeat like a zombie.
Wallace and Daly are a f**king embarrassment to the Ireland. I hope for their sakes they're getting paid well by Russia to act as cheerleaders.
Youse lot here aren't, yis are just useful eejits.
Oh right, you've never heard about Guantanamo Bay then...
My stance on this is "Russia bad, US bad".
Is that too complex to understand?
You can rest assured that once Sid becomes involved in a thread it soon turns toxic
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Let's say in a few years' time a united Ireland is democratically voted for, and the Loyalists decide they want to create a "Ballymena Peoples Republic" and a "Newtownards People's Republic", and the Brits arm them, and the local nuts shoot down a civilian airliner using British weapons, and the Brits invade County Armagh and County Louth and decide to call it part of Britain.
And continually undermine the Dublin government and threaten to invade the whole island again.
I presume you'll be supporting the Brits and the Loyalists in that case.
Because it would be directly analogous to what Ukraine has had done to it by Russia.
The brits have been arming those areas for years
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Let's say in a few years' time a united Ireland is democratically voted for, and the Loyalists decide they want to create a "Ballymena Peoples Republic" and a "Newtownards People's Republic", and the Brits arm them, and the local nuts shoot down a civilian airliner using British weapons, and the Brits invade County Armagh and County Louth and decide to call it part of Britain.
And continually undermine the Dublin government and threaten to invade the whole island again.
I presume you'll be supporting the Brits and the Loyalists in that case.
Because it would be directly analogous to what Ukraine has had done to it by Russia.
Sorry that's just waffle. I didn't put my position on the conflict. I just called out your usual BS where your whinging about someone mentioning Cuba when in your second post referenced the conflict in Ireland.
Stop trying to dictate the agenda and virtually puffing your chest out and you might find discussions more productive that the usual mess that they descend into when your involved.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Let's say in a few years' time a united Ireland is democratically voted for, and the Loyalists decide they want to create a "Ballymena Peoples Republic" and a "Newtownards People's Republic", and the Brits arm them, and the local nuts shoot down a civilian airliner using British weapons, and the Brits invade County Armagh and County Louth and decide to call it part of Britain.
And continually undermine the Dublin government and threaten to invade the whole island again.
I presume you'll be supporting the Brits and the Loyalists in that case.
Because it would be directly analogous to what Ukraine has had done to it by Russia.
Sorry that's just waffle. I didn't put my position on the conflict. I just called out your usual BS where your whinging about someone mentioning Cuba when in your second post referenced the conflict in Ireland.
Stop trying to dictate the agenda and virtually puffing your chest out and you might find discussions more productive that the usual mess that they descend into when your involved.
It isn't me that makes a mess of topics. It's narcissistic buffoons who decide to go off topic when they haven't the first idea about the topic at hand.
Have a look in the mirror.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 02:14:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 01:33:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 12:24:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
It's hard for "the west" to take the moral high ground with Russia and what they're doing to Ukraine when they all sit and do nothing with the US and their ongoing actions in Cuba.
The US doesn't occupy Cuba. Nobody occupies Cuba.
Is "Cuba" all you've got to whatabout about Russian war mongering?
The sum position of you and several other posters here is the Mick Wallace/Claire Daly one, ie. "US bad, Russia good", repeat repeat repeat like a zombie.
Wallace and Daly are a f**king embarrassment to the Ireland. I hope for their sakes they're getting paid well by Russia to act as cheerleaders.
Youse lot here aren't, yis are just useful eejits.
Oh right, you've never heard about Guantanamo Bay then...
My stance on this is "Russia bad, US bad".
Is that too complex to understand?
I think you'll find the US is
considerably less bad than Russia on this.
The problem is they may not have the stomach to do what needs to be done, in the same way Chamberlain didn't at Munich.
The only thing Russia understands is force. Ukraine should be armed to the teeth and backed up with western armies if needs be.
If not, they will remain Europe's menace, and be massively emboldened to invade elsewhere.
This is a potential Germany invading Poland situation.
Is it naive to think the ethnic Russians in Ukraine (about 17% of population) are akin to Unionists with an empire next door that want to force an Act of Union/encroach on rest of population. The only difference is Ukraine has the outside support Ireland never had at partition or during Act of Union. Can a United Irelander justify Russia's actions here. Their ethnic minority should not be allowed decide fate of a nation, nor should that ever have happened in Ireland. Polls show there's a sizable majority that looks West.
I presume anybody who thinks Russia has a right to be in Donbas or Crimea will have no problem with a rogue re-partition of Ireland by Loyalists after a united Ireland is democratically voted for.
The Russians have been committing ethnic cleansing and/or genocide in Ukraine for centuries, ethnic cleansing and apartheid which continues against the Crimean Tatars today.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Let's say in a few years' time a united Ireland is democratically voted for, and the Loyalists decide they want to create a "Ballymena Peoples Republic" and a "Newtownards People's Republic", and the Brits arm them, and the local nuts shoot down a civilian airliner using British weapons, and the Brits invade County Armagh and County Louth and decide to call it part of Britain.
And continually undermine the Dublin government and threaten to invade the whole island again.
I presume you'll be supporting the Brits and the Loyalists in that case.
Because it would be directly analogous to what Ukraine has had done to it by Russia.
Sorry that's just waffle. I didn't put my position on the conflict. I just called out your usual BS where your whinging about someone mentioning Cuba when in your second post referenced the conflict in Ireland.
Stop trying to dictate the agenda and virtually puffing your chest out and you might find discussions more productive that the usual mess that they descend into when your involved.
It isn't me that makes a mess of topics. It's narcissistic buffoons who decide to go off topic when they haven't the first idea about the topic at hand.
Have a look in the mirror.
Your making a fool of yourself. It's there for all to see. You referenced the Irish conflict. Then gave out for someone else mentioning Cuba as it's not What is being discussed. Sometimes just stop rather than doubling down.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Let's say in a few years' time a united Ireland is democratically voted for, and the Loyalists decide they want to create a "Ballymena Peoples Republic" and a "Newtownards People's Republic", and the Brits arm them, and the local nuts shoot down a civilian airliner using British weapons, and the Brits invade County Armagh and County Louth and decide to call it part of Britain.
And continually undermine the Dublin government and threaten to invade the whole island again.
I presume you'll be supporting the Brits and the Loyalists in that case.
Because it would be directly analogous to what Ukraine has had done to it by Russia.
Sorry that's just waffle. I didn't put my position on the conflict. I just called out your usual BS where your whinging about someone mentioning Cuba when in your second post referenced the conflict in Ireland.
Stop trying to dictate the agenda and virtually puffing your chest out and you might find discussions more productive that the usual mess that they descend into when your involved.
It isn't me that makes a mess of topics. It's narcissistic buffoons who decide to go off topic when they haven't the first idea about the topic at hand.
Have a look in the mirror.
Your making a fool of yourself. It's there for all to see. You referenced the Irish conflict. Then gave out for someone else mentioning Cuba as it's not What is being discussed. Sometimes just stop rather than doubling down.
It's "you're". And it isn't me who is doubling down.
I referenced the Irish conflict as an analogy to what is happening as regards Russia's war mongering against Ukraine. As an explainer. And boy do a lot of posters need what's happening explained to them.
Others mentioned Cuba to whatabout on behalf of Russia.
There are a lot self styled anti-imperialists out there who wouldn't know anti-imperialism if it bit them on the arse, whatabouting and defending as they are for the worst imperial regime on earth.
Billy Fitzpatrick from the "Irish Anti-War Movement" was a beauty of this genre on Liveline yesterday. Kremlin propaganda 101. "I don't support Russia but...but...but..."
A debating technique straight out of the anti-vaxxer playbook.
We all know the far right loves Russia. But there is a cohort of useful eejits on the left, communist dinosaurs stuck in a mental November 1917, who might as well be far right given how they're shilling for that Nazi wannabe Putin.
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Let's say in a few years' time a united Ireland is democratically voted for, and the Loyalists decide they want to create a "Ballymena Peoples Republic" and a "Newtownards People's Republic", and the Brits arm them, and the local nuts shoot down a civilian airliner using British weapons, and the Brits invade County Armagh and County Louth and decide to call it part of Britain.
And continually undermine the Dublin government and threaten to invade the whole island again.
I presume you'll be supporting the Brits and the Loyalists in that case.
Because it would be directly analogous to what Ukraine has had done to it by Russia.
Sorry that's just waffle. I didn't put my position on the conflict. I just called out your usual BS where your whinging about someone mentioning Cuba when in your second post referenced the conflict in Ireland.
Stop trying to dictate the agenda and virtually puffing your chest out and you might find discussions more productive that the usual mess that they descend into when your involved.
It isn't me that makes a mess of topics. It's narcissistic buffoons who decide to go off topic when they haven't the first idea about the topic at hand.
Have a look in the mirror.
Your making a fool of yourself. It's there for all to see. You referenced the Irish conflict. Then gave out for someone else mentioning Cuba as it's not What is being discussed. Sometimes just stop rather than doubling down.
It's "you're". And it isn't me who is doubling down.
I referenced the Irish conflict as an analogy to what is happening as regards Russia's war mongering against Ukraine. As an explainer. And boy do a lot of posters need what's happening explained to them.
Others mentioned Cuba to whatabout on behalf of Russia.
There are a lot self styled anti-imperialists out there who wouldn't know anti-imperialism if it bit them on the arse, whatabouting and defending as they are for the worst imperial regime on earth.
Billy Fitzpatrick from the "Irish Anti-War Movement" was a beauty of this genre on Liveline yesterday. Kremlin propaganda 101. "I don't support Russia but...but...but..."
A debating technique straight out of the anti-vaxxer playbook.
We all know the far right loves Russia. But there is a cohort of useful eejits on the left, communist dinosaurs stuck in a mental November 1917, who might as well be far right given how they're shilling for that Nazi wannabe Putin.
You used the Irish conflict as an analogy, someone else used Cuba. You then took a hissy fit calling their analogy whataboutary. It's your typical technic in trying to dictate the direction of the discussion. You could have just discussed why Cuba is different. And I agree it is to an extent. However in typical Sid fashion you turned the discussion toxic in trying to control the perimeters. Anyway, I'll leave you to it. Any thread with you involved tends to be one to avoid.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 09:07:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 27, 2022, 10:03:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 27, 2022, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 26, 2022, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2022, 05:51:23 PM
So what's your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
Stop deflecting.
What right has Russia to tell any other country what to do?
What right has Russia to occupy another country?
Who is threatening war here?
I'll give you a hint. It isn't Ukraine. And it isn't NATO.
Ever heard of a little island called Cuba?
What Russia is doing to Ukraine is as wrong as what the US is doing to Cuba
You see again, posters here can't debate the issue without resorting to whataboutery and irrelevancies.
Cuba is irrelevant. This is about Ukraine and what Russia is doing to it.
And if yis can't look at the issue and debate it on its merits, yis are not interested in it, yis are merely parroting Russian "talking points".
To be fair your second post on this referenced Britain and Ireland. Bit hypocritical tbh.
Let's say in a few years' time a united Ireland is democratically voted for, and the Loyalists decide they want to create a "Ballymena Peoples Republic" and a "Newtownards People's Republic", and the Brits arm them, and the local nuts shoot down a civilian airliner using British weapons, and the Brits invade County Armagh and County Louth and decide to call it part of Britain.
And continually undermine the Dublin government and threaten to invade the whole island again.
I presume you'll be supporting the Brits and the Loyalists in that case.
Because it would be directly analogous to what Ukraine has had done to it by Russia.
Sorry that's just waffle. I didn't put my position on the conflict. I just called out your usual BS where your whinging about someone mentioning Cuba when in your second post referenced the conflict in Ireland.
Stop trying to dictate the agenda and virtually puffing your chest out and you might find discussions more productive that the usual mess that they descend into when your involved.
It isn't me that makes a mess of topics. It's narcissistic buffoons who decide to go off topic when they haven't the first idea about the topic at hand.
Have a look in the mirror.
Your making a fool of yourself. It's there for all to see. You referenced the Irish conflict. Then gave out for someone else mentioning Cuba as it's not What is being discussed. Sometimes just stop rather than doubling down.
It's "you're". And it isn't me who is doubling down.
I referenced the Irish conflict as an analogy to what is happening as regards Russia's war mongering against Ukraine. As an explainer. And boy do a lot of posters need what's happening explained to them.
Others mentioned Cuba to whatabout on behalf of Russia.
There are a lot self styled anti-imperialists out there who wouldn't know anti-imperialism if it bit them on the arse, whatabouting and defending as they are for the worst imperial regime on earth.
Billy Fitzpatrick from the "Irish Anti-War Movement" was a beauty of this genre on Liveline yesterday. Kremlin propaganda 101. "I don't support Russia but...but...but..."
A debating technique straight out of the anti-vaxxer playbook.
We all know the far right loves Russia. But there is a cohort of useful eejits on the left, communist dinosaurs stuck in a mental November 1917, who might as well be far right given how they're shilling for that Nazi wannabe Putin.
You used the Irish conflict as an analogy, someone else used Cuba. You then took a hissy fit calling their analogy whataboutary. It's your typical technic in trying to dictate the direction of the discussion. You could have just discussed why Cuba is different. And I agree it is to an extent. However in typical Sid fashion you turned the discussion toxic in trying to control the perimeters. Anyway, I'll leave you to it. Any thread with you involved tends to be one to avoid.
Cuba is not an analogy. Cuba is not a democracy for one thing. And Cuba is not occupied. And Ukraine is not a client state of the US, like Cuba was for the Russians in 1962.
"Cuba" is a derailing tactic by those who are pro-Russian. It's not my problem if you have a problem with me calling that out, as you so clearly do.
So is "NATO".
So is "the US".
The blame is 100% on Russia here. It's a plutocratic dictatorship which already occupies part of a democracy and is threatening war on the rest of it. How insightful it is that people refuse to recognise this without bullshit whataboutery.
This thread is so depressing. I mean how f**king stupid can some people be? It's a straight forward scenario, but idiots are making it complicated.
Russia wants to invade Ukraine. (They've already invaded and claimed crimea as part of Russia)
Ukraine quite rightly are saying they don't want to be taken over by Russia and Europe/NATO are acknowledging there decision
Idiots here are criticising the US but how exacrly are they the bad guys here?
Getting serious now with both countries upping the ante with military drills. I guess the only question is when will Russia invade?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 10, 2022, 09:27:11 PM
Getting serious now with both countries upping the ante with military drills. I guess the only question is when will Russia invade?
Read somewhere that they need to do it in the winter if they're going to do it.
Quote from: dublin7 on January 30, 2022, 12:43:04 AM
This thread is so depressing. I mean how f**king stupid can some people be? It's a straight forward scenario, but idiots are making it complicated.
Russia wants to invade Ukraine. (They've already invaded and claimed crimea as part of Russia)
Ukraine quite rightly are saying they don't want to be taken over by Russia and Europe/NATO are acknowledging there decision
Idiots here are criticising the US but how exacrly are they the bad guys here?
If you think it is that simple I think you are the idiot.
It is that simple. Russia have already taken part of Ukraine and now want the whole country. Ukraine quite rightly aren't happy about this.
NATO are trying to convince Putin not to invade. It's not rocket science
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2022, 09:12:59 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 30, 2022, 12:43:04 AM
This thread is so depressing. I mean how f**king stupid can some people be? It's a straight forward scenario, but idiots are making it complicated.
Uk wants to invade Ireland (They've already invaded and claimed Northern Ireland as part of the Uk)
Ireland quite rightly are saying they don't want to be taken over by the Uk and Europe/NATO are acknowledging their decision
Idiots here are criticizing the US but how exactly are they the bad guys here?
If you think it is that simple I think you are the idiot.
I suppose you'd be in favor of this happening also?
Whether you like it or not Ukraine is a sovereign nation and is entitled to make its own decisions as it not Putin, sees fit
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2022, 10:00:43 AM
It is that simple. Russia have already taken part of Ukraine and now want the whole country. Ukraine quite rightly aren't happy about this.
NATO are trying to convince Putin not to invade. It's not rocket science
It's actually not that simple. Say the Irish government amassed a force on the border to retake the 6 counties of Ulster. Would that make it a "simple" scenario? Say the Spanish were threatening a takeover of Gibraltar, is that a straight-forward "Evil Spanish steal sovereign territory" situation? That's how this is being presented.
I find it depressing how people can be so easily led into believing Russia is the sole aggressor here. Intelligence being delivered by MI6 and the CIA to the large Western media outlets and your everyday Irishman is lapping it up. Has the Iraqi war or Afghan war been wiped from your memories?
What is today Belorussia and Ukraine has a very strong historical, cultural and linguistic link to the early Russian state. The very first Russia capital was based in Kiev and that state, from 800 AD, largely existed in a narrow strip from the eastern Baltic stated down to the mouth of the Danube. The territory followed both sides of the Dnieper River which courses down the very centre of the current Ukrainian state. Unlike Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Armenia or Georgia an independent Ukrainian state has never existed prior to 30 years ago. The territory, language and culture were largely contiguous with Russia. Russian is the first language in most eastern Ukrainian cities including it's 2nd largest city (*acc. to CH4 news). Ukraine has produced a great quantity of Russia's best writers, actors, dancers, soldiers and sportspeople who almost exclusively considered themselves Russian nationals from the Ukraine. Ukraine was predominantly viewed as a geographical distinction in a large Russian state.
Pro-independence sentiment only arose in 1991 following the pro-soviet coup in Russia. Ukrainian leaders had agreed to a continued union with Russia in a post-communist era only a few months earlier. Had it not been for that coup attempt, it is highly Ukraine would today exist as part of a united Russian federation. As it transpired the fear of a return of the hard-line soviets drove them to the nuclear option of declaring independence and so we have the situation in which we currently find ourselves. The 20-year economic stagnation of Russia and it's satellites has meant that increasingly the Ukrainians look to Western Europe and it's political embodiment, the EU, with admiration and desire for closer links in order to better their own country. That's understandable.
What is also understandable is that the Russian people, a proud people who hail from a country that has been either the 1st or 2nd world superpower for most of the period since the close of the Napoleonic War in 1815, should view Western Europe with a sizeable amount of distrust. Since the Crimean War in 1853 western European countries have tried to undermine successive Russian regimes. For the last 100 years 1 Western power or another has been trying to undermine Russian governments with the exception of 1991-2010, (when we eventually succeeded). And the cost of these wars to Russia have been immense. They lost 3.3 million dead in WW1, a total no other nation came close too. They lost 20 - 27 million people in WW2. To average Russians the defection of Ukraine to the West has nothing to do with democracy or economics. How could things they don't understand trump the 1300 years of shared experience that binds Russia and Ukraine? The only explanation is that once again the West is acting to undermine Russia with subversion of the Ukrainian people. That's not that hard to believe. Irish people are imbued with an enmity and distrust towards Britain for crimes much more distant than those inflicted upon Russia.
Obviously I don't agree with the current Russian belligerence and they cannot force the Ukrainian state into a reunion the people do not want (this is not the Russian intention either by the way). And I'm aware Putin is a deplorable man and ruthless totalitarian leader who doesn't believe in the principles of democracy. However I deplore the current hawkish rhetoric to be found in the US, UK, Irish and European media and general discussion. To the forefront of course are UK, US intelligence agencies who's intentions and motives are deliberately hidden from us all and have seldom been known to serve the greater good. Secondly is the old guard military types; lords, generals, congressmen and MPs and their ilk, who are desperate for a good scrap every 10-15 years to inflate their own self-importance and standing in society. Would anyone give a f**k if you were a marine for 30 years if there wasn't regular wars? I think not. Thirdly the caste of populist politicians in every country who know that the fighting is going to be done somewhere far away and none of their casualties could vote for them. So it's a easy vote-winner in a hawkish environment to stand on the soapbox telling us all to go to war. Let's see the same people stand up and take credit for it when it turns into a Syria or an Iraq or an Afghanistan. Lastly there's a press who know wars and rampant nationalism stir base emotions in people and create an increase in revenue through the extra clicks on their stories.
I could go on all night as to why the current environment and approach by Western countries to Russia is wrong (and why Germany appear to me to be the most rational) but it's getting late.
Ill just say anyone who thinks this is a simple issue is "f**king stupid" as you so eloquently put it.
Russia does not have the right to bully Ukraine because people speak Russian any more than England has the right to bully Ireland or Spain to bully Mexico. Most of this "we were there for centuries" is analogous to English claims on Ireland and equally wrong.
A political federation between Ukraine and Russia might seem a good idea, but as we in Ireland know if we had any arrangements with England they would simply try to boss the whole show. Russia has 11% of the world's landmass, that should be enough for them.
Quote from: trileacman on February 11, 2022, 11:52:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2022, 10:00:43 AM
It is that simple. Russia have already taken part of Ukraine and now want the whole country. Ukraine quite rightly aren't happy about this.
NATO are trying to convince Putin not to invade. It's not rocket science
It's actually not that simple. Say the Irish government amassed a force on the border to retake the 6 counties of Ulster. Would that make it a "simple" scenario? Say the Spanish were threatening a takeover of Gibraltar, is that a straight-forward "Evil Spanish steal sovereign territory" situation? That's how this is being presented.
I find it depressing how people can be so easily led into believing Russia is the sole aggressor here. Intelligence being delivered by MI6 and the CIA to the large Western media outlets and your everyday Irishman is lapping it up. Has the Iraqi war or Afghan war been wiped from your memories?
What is today Belorussia and Ukraine has a very strong historical, cultural and linguistic link to the early Russian state. The very first Russia capital was based in Kiev and that state, from 800 AD, largely existed in a narrow strip from the eastern Baltic stated down to the mouth of the Danube. The territory followed both sides of the Dnieper River which courses down the very centre of the current Ukrainian state. Unlike Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Armenia or Georgia an independent Ukrainian state has never existed prior to 30 years ago. The territory, language and culture were largely contiguous with Russia. Russian is the first language in most eastern Ukrainian cities including it's 2nd largest city (*acc. to CH4 news). Ukraine has produced a great quantity of Russia's best writers, actors, dancers, soldiers and sportspeople who almost exclusively considered themselves Russian nationals from the Ukraine. Ukraine was predominantly viewed as a geographical distinction in a large Russian state.
Pro-independence sentiment only arose in 1991 following the pro-soviet coup in Russia. Ukrainian leaders had agreed to a continued union with Russia in a post-communist era only a few months earlier. Had it not been for that coup attempt, it is highly Ukraine would today exist as part of a united Russian federation. As it transpired the fear of a return of the hard-line soviets drove them to the nuclear option of declaring independence and so we have the situation in which we currently find ourselves. The 20-year economic stagnation of Russia and it's satellites has meant that increasingly the Ukrainians look to Western Europe and it's political embodiment, the EU, with admiration and desire for closer links in order to better their own country. That's understandable.
What is also understandable is that the Russian people, a proud people who hail from a country that has been either the 1st or 2nd world superpower for most of the period since the close of the Napoleonic War in 1815, should view Western Europe with a sizeable amount of distrust. Since the Crimean War in 1853 western European countries have tried to undermine successive Russian regimes. For the last 100 years 1 Western power or another has been trying to undermine Russian governments with the exception of 1991-2010, (when we eventually succeeded). And the cost of these wars to Russia have been immense. They lost 3.3 million dead in WW1, a total no other nation came close too. They lost 20 - 27 million people in WW2. To average Russians the defection of Ukraine to the West has nothing to do with democracy or economics. How could things they don't understand trump the 1300 years of shared experience that binds Russia and Ukraine? The only explanation is that once again the West is acting to undermine Russia with subversion of the Ukrainian people. That's not that hard to believe. Irish people are imbued with an enmity and distrust towards Britain for crimes much more distant than those inflicted upon Russia.
Obviously I don't agree with the current Russian belligerence and they cannot force the Ukrainian state into a reunion the people do not want (this is not the Russian intention either by the way). And I'm aware Putin is a deplorable man and ruthless totalitarian leader who doesn't believe in the principles of democracy. However I deplore the current hawkish rhetoric to be found in the US, UK, Irish and European media and general discussion. To the forefront of course are UK, US intelligence agencies who's intentions and motives are deliberately hidden from us all and have seldom been known to serve the greater good. Secondly is the old guard military types; lords, generals, congressmen and MPs and their ilk, who are desperate for a good scrap every 10-15 years to inflate their own self-importance and standing in society. Would anyone give a f**k if you were a marine for 30 years if there wasn't regular wars? I think not. Thirdly the caste of populist politicians in every country who know that the fighting is going to be done somewhere far away and none of their casualties could vote for them. So it's a easy vote-winner in a hawkish environment to stand on the soapbox telling us all to go to war. Let's see the same people stand up and take credit for it when it turns into a Syria or an Iraq or an Afghanistan. Lastly there's a press who know wars and rampant nationalism stir base emotions in people and create an increase in revenue through the extra clicks on their stories.
I could go on all night as to why the current environment and approach by Western countries to Russia is wrong (and why Germany appear to me to be the most rational) but it's getting late.
Ill just say anyone who thinks this is a simple issue is "f**king stupid" as you so eloquently put it.
Putinist propaganda 101, you even got the bit in about supposedly not liking Putin to try and make yourself look even handed. All serious pro-Russia propagandists do that.
Now let's rewrite a bit of your diatribe of imperialist hate speech and slot Ireland and Britain in in place of Ukraine and Russia, and see how it sounds.
What is today Ireland has always a very strong historical, cultural and linguistic link to Britain. The patron saint of Ireland, St. Patrick, was British and from 1165 on Ireland was always British. The two islands form a natural archipelago in north west Europe. Unlike other western European countries like France, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and Belgium, an independent Irish state never existed prior to 70 years ago. The territory, language and culture were largely contiguous with the United Kingdom. English is the first language in all of Ireland bar very tiny pockets on the west coast. Ireland has produced a great quantity of Britain's best writers, actors, television personalities soldiers and sportspeople who almost exclusively considered themselves British nationals from the United Kingdom. Ireland was predominantly viewed as a geographical distinction in a large United Kingdom and wider British empire
Pro-independence sentiment only arose in 1916 following the executions of the leaders of the Easter Rising. Irish leaders always agreed to a continued union with Britain until 1949. Had it not been for that coup attempt in 1916, it is highly likely Ireland would today exist as part of the United Kingdom.. As it transpired the fear of conscription drove them to the nuclear option of declaring independence and so we have the situation in which we currently find ourselves. The economic stagnation of Britain has meant that increasingly the Irish look to Western Europe and it's political embodiment, the EU, with admiration and desire for closer links in order to better their own country. That's understandable.
What is also understandable is that the British people, a proud people who hail from a country that has been either the 1st or 2nd world superpower for most of the period since the close of the Napoleonic War in 1815, should view the rest of Western Europe with a sizeable amount of distrust. Since the American revolution of 1776 countries in Europe and around the world have tried to undermine successive British regimes. For the last 108 years 1 Western power or another has been trying to undermine British governments. And the cost of these wars to Britain have been immense. They lost millions dead in both World Wars and thousands dead in Ireland. To average Brits the defection of Ireland has nothing to do with democracy or economics. How could things they don't understand trump the 900 years of shared experience that binds Britain and Ireland? The only explanation is that once again the West is acting to undermine Britain with the subversion of the Irish people. That's not that hard to believe. Ukrainian people are imbued with an enmity and distrust towards Russia for crimes much more serious than those ever inflicted upon Ireland.
Quote from: trileacman on February 11, 2022, 11:52:01 PM
Pro-independence sentiment only arose in 1991 following the pro-soviet coup in Russia.
This is also complete bullshit.
Do tell me what years these happened in.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_War_of_Independence
This is the sort of warmongering propaganda that is broadcast constantly in Russia. Use the subtitles button.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyhnAOAmYGY&t=3s&ab_channel=Ohhai
Kiev has an emotional attachment for Russians as Kosovan does for Serbs
The initial political unit which over time metamorphosised into Russia was Kievan Rus.
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2022, 09:18:36 AM
Kiev has an emotional attachment for Russians as Kosovan does for Serbs
The initial political unit which over time metamorphosised into Russia was Kievan Rus.
Spain has an "emotional attachment" for ISIS, given that it was part of the Islamic caliphate.
And that "emotional attachment" is about as reasoned, logical and helpful as the Russians' "emotional attachment" to Ukraine or the Serbs' "emotional attachment" to Kosovo.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60353677
Quote from: sid waddell on February 12, 2022, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2022, 09:18:36 AM
Kiev has an emotional attachment for Russians as Kosovan does for Serbs
The initial political unit which over time metamorphosised into Russia was Kievan Rus.
Spain has an "emotional attachment" for ISIS, given that it was part of the Islamic caliphate.
And that "emotional attachment" is about as reasoned, logical and helpful as the Russians' "emotional attachment" to Ukraine or the Serbs' "emotional attachment" to Kosovo.
It's a fact. So is the concept of Russia's " near abroad"
Ukraine has something that Sweden does not have.
Another important angle is WW2 trauma
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/
she spoke of Russian society as a "collective Putin." As she put it, "Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2022, 09:59:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 12, 2022, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2022, 09:18:36 AM
Kiev has an emotional attachment for Russians as Kosovan does for Serbs
The initial political unit which over time metamorphosised into Russia was Kievan Rus.
Spain has an "emotional attachment" for ISIS, given that it was part of the Islamic caliphate.
And that "emotional attachment" is about as reasoned, logical and helpful as the Russians' "emotional attachment" to Ukraine or the Serbs' "emotional attachment" to Kosovo.
It's a fact. So is the concept of Russia's " near abroad"
Ukraine has something that Sweden does not have.
Another important angle is WW2 trauma
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/
she spoke of Russian society as a "collective Putin." As she put it, "Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are
Russia is a nation drunk on exquisite, eternal self pity.
The problem for us in the west is that it is us who will experience the self-pity and internal humiliation for generations if Russia is not stood up to and faced down, because Russia wants to destroy not just Ukraine and the other countries is is trying to destroy, but freedom and democracy in the west. And if let, it will.
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Quote from: sid waddell on February 12, 2022, 09:07:40 AM
This is the sort of warmongering propaganda that is broadcast constantly in Russia. Use the subtitles button.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyhnAOAmYGY&t=3s&ab_channel=Ohhai
Who's that guy being interviewed?
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
:D :D ;D :D ;D
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
Ooookaaay.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 12, 2022, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2022, 09:59:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 12, 2022, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2022, 09:18:36 AM
Kiev has an emotional attachment for Russians as Kosovan does for Serbs
The initial political unit which over time metamorphosised into Russia was Kievan Rus.
Spain has an "emotional attachment" for ISIS, given that it was part of the Islamic caliphate.
And that "emotional attachment" is about as reasoned, logical and helpful as the Russians' "emotional attachment" to Ukraine or the Serbs' "emotional attachment" to Kosovo.
It's a fact. So is the concept of Russia's " near abroad"
Ukraine has something that Sweden does not have.
Another important angle is WW2 trauma
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/
she spoke of Russian society as a "collective Putin." As she put it, "Putin placed his bet on the basest instincts and won. Even if he disappeared tomorrow, we would remain as we are
Russia is a nation drunk on exquisite, eternal self pity.
The problem for us in the west is that it is us who will experience the self-pity and internal humiliation for generations if Russia is not stood up to and faced down, because Russia wants to destroy not just Ukraine and the other countries is is trying to destroy, but freedom and democracy in the west. And if let, it will.
Russia is paranoid and aggressive like Israel is
It's some form of group PTSD with its roots in WW2.
Most of the killing includin bthe Shoah happened on the Eastern front.
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on February 12, 2022, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 12, 2022, 11:09:46 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,
even the english and yanks acknowledged that,
we saved their ass ;)
Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
Sorry Mr.Hitler
https://www.ft.com/content/84d79a0a-98b2-4e2c-a21f-b97e76ca0391
Military briefing: how close is Russia to taking Donbas after the fall of Luhansk? Boosted by fresh western weapons supplies, Ukraine's defence hinges on disabling Moscow's artillery steamroller A destroyed bridge linking Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in the Luhansk region. Vladimir Putin has ordered his Russian forces to press on into Donetsk province © REUTERS Share on twitter (opens new window) Share on facebook (opens new window) Share on linkedin (opens new window) Share Save Ben Hall in London and Roman Olearchyk in Kyiv 3 HOURS AGO 118 Print this page Stay across the latest Ukraine coverage Get instant email alerts Russia's capture of the eastern Ukrainian city of Lysychansk, triggering the fall of the entire Luhansk province, was hailed as a victory by Vladimir Putin. But it is a symbolic more than a strategic one, say military experts. The Russian president is still a long way from his objective of "liberating" the whole of the Donbas region, of which Luhansk is one half. On Monday he ordered his forces to press on into Donetsk province, the other half of Donbas, where the Ukrainians still control the cities of Slovyansk, Kramatorsk and Bakhmut with tens of thousands of troops. Capturing the entire Donetsk region would require Russian forces to advance towards these heavily fortified cities 50km to 70km west of Lysychansk, and about the same again to reach the administrative border.
Despite Putin's instruction to carry on, analysts and Ukrainian advisers say the war is likely to enter a new phase in which Kyiv's troops try to use advanced weaponry freshly supplied by the west to cut Russian supply lines and destroy ammunition stocks and rear bases rather than cling on to territory. The capture of all of Luhansk was a significant advance in Putin's Donbas campaign and demonstrates that Russia's military machine — grinding its way forward through intensive artillery bombardment — still has momentum, despite heavy losses. Lysychansk fell more quickly than some Ukrainian military advisers expected. But the Kremlin's aim when it relaunched its offensive in the Donbas region in mid-April was to surround and kill or capture tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops in the so-called Joint Forces Operation, dealing a perhaps fatal blow to the country's war effort.
Not only does that remain a distant prospect but Russian troops have also failed to meet their scaled-back objectives of encircling Ukrainian forces in smaller "cauldrons" on the way.
"The enemy wanted not only to capture Donetsk and Luhansk regions in their administrative borders but to do it through a cauldron of Ukrainian forces . . . Their aim was [to] encircle and destroy our grouping there," said retired lieutenant general Ihor Romanenko, a former deputy head of Ukraine's general staff.
"We conducted operations in Severodonetsk and Lysychansk to the point where we could degrade their military might, but after they amassed forces far exceeding ours, it was necessary to withdraw our forces to avoid the cauldron."
The bulk of Luhansk territory seized by Russia was taken soon after the invasion began in February, said Oleksandr V Danylyuk, head of the Kyiv-based Centre for Defence Reforms, a think-tank. But they struggled to take the last fifth, which was properly contested by Kyiv's forces. Oleksiy Arestovych, an adviser to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said Ukraine had succeeded in slowing down the Russian advance, despite incurring heavy losses of up to 200 deaths a day. "The main tasks were: to pin down the main enemy forces; inflict losses on them; buy time for the supply of western weapons and improve the second line of defence; to create conditions for our offensive operations in other sectors of the front," Arestovych said. Recommended War in Ukraine: free to read Russia's invasion of Ukraine in maps — latest updates
As Russian forces edge further west they are likely to encounter even stiffer resistance. Kramatorsk and Slovyansk were well defended after eight years of fortifications by Ukrainian forces, Danylyuk said. Russia's aim will be to come within artillery range and then bombard Ukrainian positions. Oleksiy Melnyk, a former Ukrainian Air Force officer now at the Razumkov Centre think-tank in Kyiv, said not even heavy fortifications would withstand a Russian artillery barrage and aerial bombardment.
Russian guns have been firing tens of thousands of shells a day in Luhansk. To break or at least slow Russia's artillery steamroller, Ukraine now needed to target Russian supply lines using long-range weapons, especially US-supplied multiple-launch rocket systems, known as Himars, said Melnyk.
Only four have so far been deployed to the battlefield, but with a 70km range and pinpoint accuracy they are being used to great effect. A Ukrainian rocket attack severely damaged a big Russian air base near the occupied southern city of Melitopol on Sunday, well beyond the normal range of Kyiv's artillery. Ukraine also struck Russian arms depots in Donetsk province. Kyiv needs many more Himars to turn the tide of the war. "If Ukraine has more capabilities to destroy ground supply lines and ammunition depots and deliver strikes to destroy artillery positions, Russia will have to adjust their plans or change them significantly as before," said Melnyk. As well as a shortage of artillery ammunition, Ukraine has multiple other weaknesses, including a lack of skilled infantry and armoured vehicles to conduct offensive operations, a shortage of secure radio equipment and an inability to detect and take out Russian electronic warfare capabilities, according to a report by the Royal United Services Institute in London. Russia is also suffering from manpower shortages and depleted stocks of modern armour, leaving it dependent on its vastly superior artillery firepower, according to western and Ukrainian analysts.
Putin's instruction to his forces in Luhansk to "rest" while others join the battle was seen by Ukrainian analysts as a tacit admission of the heavy losses they have suffered as well as a possible need to bolster artillery supplies. Meanwhile, Ukrainian counter-attacks towards the occupied southern city of Kherson at the mouth of the Dnipro river, are putting pressure on Russian forces. Although a Ukrainian assault on the city itself seems unlikely, given the risk of civilian casualties, Ukraine could try to encircle Russian troops in pockets along the right bank of the river. "The problem for Russia is that they do not have enough forces to secure both directions [south and east]," said Mykhailo Samus, director of the New Geopolitics Research Network, who spent 12 years in the Ukrainian armed forces. "The Ukrainian side will demonstrate its intention to play in both directions. For Ukraine, the southern front is more important for now because of the sea and port access for exports."
The transfer of Poor auld Ukrainians to Ireland is pigs in a trough time for Irish politicians & their cronies. Disgusting stuff happening up & down the country. Ukrainians are been f&cked in anywhere while kunts make a fortune. Greed by the worst in Irish society, pure opportunism.
Quote from: Rudi on August 18, 2022, 11:27:44 AM
The transfer of Poor auld Ukrainians to Ireland is pigs in a trough time for Irish politicians & their cronies. Disgusting stuff happening up & down the country. Ukrainians are been f&cked in anywhere while kunts make a fortune. Greed by the worst in Irish society, pure opportunism.
No doubt some people have profited from this, but I'd say that Irish politicians in general would just wish that Russia would f**k off out of Ukraine (except the PBP loonies, of course).
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 01:42:44 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 18, 2022, 11:27:44 AM
The transfer of Poor auld Ukrainians to Ireland is pigs in a trough time for Irish politicians & their cronies. Disgusting stuff happening up & down the country. Ukrainians are been f&cked in anywhere while kunts make a fortune. Greed by the worst in Irish society, pure opportunism.
No doubt some people have profited from this, but I'd say that Irish politicians in general would just wish that Russia would f**k off out of Ukraine (except the PBP loonies, of course).
Some fookers would throw their 90 year old mother out on the street, to make some dosh on the Ukrainians, who they'd have living on top of each other. The whole thing stinks,its not humanitarian, it's pure greed. Pigs at a trough. Fat greedy bastards.
Quote from: Rudi on August 18, 2022, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 01:42:44 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 18, 2022, 11:27:44 AM
The transfer of Poor auld Ukrainians to Ireland is pigs in a trough time for Irish politicians & their cronies. Disgusting stuff happening up & down the country. Ukrainians are been f&cked in anywhere while kunts make a fortune. Greed by the worst in Irish society, pure opportunism.
No doubt some people have profited from this, but I'd say that Irish politicians in general would just wish that Russia would f**k off out of Ukraine (except the PBP loonies, of course).
Some fookers would throw their 90 year old mother out on the street, to make some dosh on the Ukrainians, who they'd have living on top of each other. The whole thing stinks,its not humanitarian, it's pure greed. Pigs at a trough. Fat greedy bastards.
You have all sorts. Many people have acted in noble way to help the Ukrainians, others have sought to gouge them.
Quote from: Rudi on August 18, 2022, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 01:42:44 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 18, 2022, 11:27:44 AM
The transfer of Poor auld Ukrainians to Ireland is pigs in a trough time for Irish politicians & their cronies. Disgusting stuff happening up & down the country. Ukrainians are been f&cked in anywhere while kunts make a fortune. Greed by the worst in Irish society, pure opportunism.
No doubt some people have profited from this, but I'd say that Irish politicians in general would just wish that Russia would f**k off out of Ukraine (except the PBP loonies, of course).
Some fookers would throw their 90 year old mother out on the street, to make some dosh on the Ukrainians, who they'd have living on top of each other. The whole thing stinks,its not humanitarian, it's pure greed. Pigs at a trough. Fat greedy bastards.
Sums up the cynicism of the asylum industry/ immigration scam.
https://twitter.com/JolyonRubs/status/1629189747032612875