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Eddie Keher and Brian Cody want red and yellow cards abolished in hurling.
Liam O'Neill to establish a forum for debate about the future of hurling.
What's going on here?

Cody and Keher are old school fantasists. No dirt in hurling? Give over.

O'Neill wants to establish a forum for debate about the future of hurling. Sounds like a good idea to me, especially if the debate would be otherwise dominated by the likes of Cody and Keher.

A year ago Cody was crying about Padraic Maher and wanting all sorts of punishments for a foul on Michael Rice.
Now, all because the Ginger Cat got red carded and Kilkenny lost, Darth Cody wants card done away with.

Let's just do away with referees and let Cody decide what constitutes fair play!

Quote from: deiseach on February 12, 2014, 02:01:53 PM
Cody and Keher are old school fantasists. No dirt in hurling? Give over.

O'Neill wants to establish a forum for debate about the future of hurling. Sounds like a good idea to me, especially if the debate would be otherwise dominated by the likes of Cody and Keher.

The debate on hurling will be dictated solely by the traditional counties with no thoughts on hurling from outside the elite.
Yeah when discussing Div1a, Div1b obviously their inputs are imperative, just let the others have their say on the lower echelons of hurling and how it can be improved rather than ignoring us yet again.

From a hurlers view (hate when purely football eejits have a say, It's like me having a view on cricket)  :o What's currently wrong with the rules as they are for hurling? It's been having a great couple of years in terms of emerging teams and the quality of the games when in the latter stages.

If anything needs fixing it's about investing in the smaller counties and trying to develop and grow them to be pushing the traditional counties, the traditional counties will always produce great teams (usually in cycles) but for teams to make a breakthrough every so often the ripple effect it has in the county is massive

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2014, 04:18:00 PM
From a hurlers view (hate when purely football eejits have a say, It's like me having a view on cricket)  :o What's currently wrong with the rules as they are for hurling? It's been having a great couple of years in terms of emerging teams and the quality of the games when in the latter stages.

If anything needs fixing it's about investing in the smaller counties and trying to develop and grow them to be pushing the traditional counties, the traditional counties will always produce great teams (usually in cycles) but for teams to make a breakthrough every so often the ripple effect it has in the county is massive

That's the thing, how many county board delegates to either the Ulster council or Central council are purely from one code in any county?

Quote from: johnneycool on February 12, 2014, 04:05:49 PM
The debate on hurling will be dictated solely by the traditional counties with no thoughts on hurling from outside the elite.
Yeah when discussing Div1a, Div1b obviously their inputs are imperative, just let the others have their say on the lower echelons of hurling and how it can be improved rather than ignoring us yet again.

You're probably right, which is a crying shame. Hurling's stock has never been higher and it's vitally important to get the non-traditional counties on board.

Brian Cody having his annual moan about refereeing and cards before the season starts. Some of the yellow and red cards were harsh last year but it's up to the refs to decide what should be a card. I don't see how getting rid of cards would achieve anything. Hurling went too lenient for a number of years so it has got a bit stricter now and the likes of Keher and Cody don't like it.
I hope Liam O'Neill's debate on the future of hurling won't be just about cards. We had the best championship in many years last year so I don't know where this has come out of.

Quote from: waterfordlad on February 12, 2014, 08:04:06 PM
Brian Cody having his annual moan about refereeing and cards before the season starts. Some of the yellow and red cards were harsh last year but it's up to the refs to decide what should be a card. I don't see how getting rid of cards would achieve anything. Hurling went too lenient for a number of years so it has got a bit stricter now and the likes of Keher and Cody don't like it.
I hope Liam O'Neill's debate on the future of hurling won't be just about cards. We had the best championship in many years last year so I don't know where this has come out of.

This is pressure from tv/paper, jounos and bog ball men, they need the need to be looking for something

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2014, 09:46:37 PM

Quote from: waterfordlad on February 12, 2014, 08:04:06 PM
Brian Cody having his annual moan about refereeing and cards before the season starts. Some of the yellow and red cards were harsh last year but it's up to the refs to decide what should be a card. I don't see how getting rid of cards would achieve anything. Hurling went too lenient for a number of years so it has got a bit stricter now and the likes of Keher and Cody don't like it.
I hope Liam O'Neill's debate on the future of hurling won't be just about cards. We had the best championship in many years last year so I don't know where this has come out of.

This is pressure from tv/paper, jounos and bog ball men, they need the need to be looking for something

Maybe us "bog ball men" should stop subsidising that minority game  ;)

Quote from: Rossfan on February 13, 2014, 03:39:47 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2014, 09:46:37 PM

Quote from: waterfordlad on February 12, 2014, 08:04:06 PM
Brian Cody having his annual moan about refereeing and cards before the season starts. Some of the yellow and red cards were harsh last year but it's up to the refs to decide what should be a card. I don't see how getting rid of cards would achieve anything. Hurling went too lenient for a number of years so it has got a bit stricter now and the likes of Keher and Cody don't like it.
I hope Liam O'Neill's debate on the future of hurling won't be just about cards. We had the best championship in many years last year so I don't know where this has come out of.

This is pressure from tv/paper, jounos and bog ball men, they need the need to be looking for something

Maybe us "bog ball men" should stop subsidising that minority game  ;)

At what point are they subsidising it? All the money is going to football anyways, county boards in football run counties couldn't give a stuff about, tell me different

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 12, 2014, 02:58:59 PM
A year ago Cody was crying about Padraic Maher and wanting all sorts of punishments for a foul on Michael Rice.
Now, all because the Ginger Cat got red carded and Kilkenny lost, Darth Cody wants card done away with.

Let's just do away with referees and let Cody decide what constitutes fair play!

Two incidents at totally opposite ends of the spectrum is hardly helping your argument.

Has anyone got a link to the Maher pull. I only seen it live and at the time I remember thinking it was as dirty a swing that I'd ever seen at inter county in recent memory.

Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2014, 11:50:30 PM
Has anyone got a link to the Maher pull. I only seen it live and at the time I remember thinking it was as dirty a swing that I'd ever seen at inter county in recent memory.

I thought there was no dirt in the game. Brian Cody certainly thinks this.

Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2014, 11:50:30 PM

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 12, 2014, 02:58:59 PM
A year ago Cody was crying about Padraic Maher and wanting all sorts of punishments for a foul on Michael Rice.
Now, all because the Ginger Cat got red carded and Kilkenny lost, Darth Cody wants card done away with.

Let's just do away with referees and let Cody decide what constitutes fair play!

Two incidents at totally opposite ends of the spectrum is hardly helping your argument.

Has anyone got a link to the Maher pull. I only seen it live and at the time I remember thinking it was as dirty a swing that I'd ever seen at inter county in recent memory.

You must live in a cave if you think it was that bad.
It was a clumsy one handed pull on the ball where the hurley flew up and caught Rice on the hand.

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 17, 2014, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2014, 11:50:30 PM

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 12, 2014, 02:58:59 PM
A year ago Cody was crying about Padraic Maher and wanting all sorts of punishments for a foul on Michael Rice.
Now, all because the Ginger Cat got red carded and Kilkenny lost, Darth Cody wants card done away with.

Let's just do away with referees and let Cody decide what constitutes fair play!

Two incidents at totally opposite ends of the spectrum is hardly helping your argument.

Has anyone got a link to the Maher pull. I only seen it live and at the time I remember thinking it was as dirty a swing that I'd ever seen at inter county in recent memory.

You must live in a cave if you think it was that bad.
It was a clumsy one handed pull on the ball where the hurley flew up and caught Rice on the hand.

Clumsy or careless?

I don't know if the sending off was harsh but with 'hurling men' like Pat Bennett it's not surprising hurling isn't growing!!


Ballysaggart selector Pat Bennett has lambasted Wicklow referee John Keenan for sending off his son in the All-Ireland junior hurling final replay last Saturday.

He also had words for the GAA which appointed a "football referee" to look after a hurling final.

"He is a football referee by all accounts and he proved it today. I don't be critical of referees (sic), I never do, but when you're putting in a Wicklow referee that doesn't know what hurling is about then that is what you get."

Wicklow as a county has been besmirched many times and has had many crosses to bear over the years. In 130 years, they have not managed to win a single provincial title. They have given us Glenroe and Sean Fitzpatrick. And they were the only county in the country to see no action (and I mean no action at all) during the War of Independence. And now when a referee from the county comes out to referee a hurling match he is accused of knowing nothing about the sport because of where he is from.

It's fair to say that Bennett, who had to watch his club side get beaten and his son get the line was in foul humour throughout the interview. Nor was he especially complimentary towards the victors on the day, Derry side Creggan, issuing the worst libel it is possible to utter about hurlers. He called them footballers.

"We knew Creggan were going to be physical. We knew they couldn't score from long range. We said we would let them shoot from out the field and you see their wide count and it is probably double ours. That is because they are footballers. They can't score from out the field."

Their incredible, size 5 O'Neill loving ineptness with a sliotar notwithstanding, Creggan are still the All-Ireland junior hurling champions.

If the referee is a football referee, then he is right to complain.

He doesn't know he's a football referee, just because, like most refs, he might referee both codes doesn't mean he is a football referee. We know that Pat doesn't know because he says he is a football referee 'by all accounts' so Pat is complaining without knowing. He also had a dig at the team that beat them for being footballers, well Pat not playing football in Ballysaggart has ye feck all good.

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 17, 2014, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2014, 11:50:30 PM

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 12, 2014, 02:58:59 PM
A year ago Cody was crying about Padraic Maher and wanting all sorts of punishments for a foul on Michael Rice.
Now, all because the Ginger Cat got red carded and Kilkenny lost, Darth Cody wants card done away with.

Let's just do away with referees and let Cody decide what constitutes fair play!

Two incidents at totally opposite ends of the spectrum is hardly helping your argument.

Has anyone got a link to the Maher pull. I only seen it live and at the time I remember thinking it was as dirty a swing that I'd ever seen at inter county in recent memory.

You must live in a cave if you think it was that bad.
It was a clumsy one handed pull on the ball where the hurley flew up and caught Rice on the hand.

Mahers hurl caught Rice because he swung well behind the ball. He never looked like he was interested in the ball when it happened. We're talking about a top IC hurler not some Div4 club hacker, so I'm not buying the clumsy argument. In my cave we were always taught to only pull when the balls there. Good advice which I'm sure has saved many's an ankle and hand from a bad injury. 

As I said ...my memory may have dimmed, but I do remember seeing it on the big screen when I was at the game and that's what I remember. Would anyone have a link to the incident online? Prepared to be proved wrong

Eddie Keher: Showing cards humiliates great players in front of their families

Eddie Keher makes it quite clear in his recently produced document that the brandishing of yellow and red cards has no place within the game of hurling.
Quite pointedly he claims that such cards are totally at variance with the "physicality and manliness" of the ancient game
His views was supported last week by current Kilkenny manager Brian Cody, with GAA President Liam O'Neill subsequently calling for an open debate on all aspects of the game of hurling.

Others have also rowed in, with many stating that if the game ain't broke, then don't fix it.
Keher was a revered figure on the pitch during his career with the Cats, winning a total of six All-Ireland titles. When he talks, people tend to listen!
Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Today with Sean O'Rourke, Keher outlined his frustration about what he calls the needless rituals of showing cards.

He said: "I never agreed with use of cards. They were introduced in 1970 in the soccer World Cup which was a wise decision because of the language barrier.
"It enabled referees to communicate better with the players of various countries.
"I abhor the whole ritual of showing cards to our hurlers.  It's a pompous and triumphalist exercise causing humiliation to our great players in front of their families, friends and supporters.
"It's a pompous and triumphalist exercise causing humiliation to our great players in front of their families"

"We must recognise that we have a wonderful organisation, but the greatest asset we have are the players. However there seems to be an attitude to get at those players and I don't think that's the way they should be treated."
Keher went on to add that players are now at a loss as to how to tackle.
"You can't commit a technical foul. We always admired players who went for the '50-50' ball or even the '40-60' ball. They were lauded and admired. Now if you commit a technical foul, the player is consigned to a passenger for the rest of the game.

"He can't tackle or do anything. That takes away from the great physical part of our game.
Dirty play is another thing and people have misinterpreted what I said about that. I don't advocate a return to the 'Hell's Kitchen' type of hurling. I'm talking about good, physical challenges and I just don't like seeing cards bandied about in a triumphalist way.

Players are at a loss to know how to tackle without committing a foul and incurring a yellow card.
"I ask a simple question. How does a back tackle a forward who's coming in with the ball on a solo run?  It just seems now that you can't tackle a player without getting a card or worse." 

Keher was later quoted a piece written by Denis Walsh in the Sunday Times.
"Brian Cody's line about the physicality in hurling has been aired on a loop for most of the decade. Kilkenny players were programmed to give belts and take belts and not lie down.
"Their rivals realised they had no hope against them without reaching a certain threshold of machismo and hurling elite referees increasingly became facilitators rather than policemen."

In response Keher added: "There has been a lot of talk about Kilkenny's physicality.
"No opposing player that played against Kilkenny in Brian Cody's reign has had to leave the field injured, whereas six Kilkenny players were felled with serious injuries during that period which incidentally went unpunished.
"As a side they challenge for everything and that's what we like about hurling. I wouldn't like that to disappear from the game.  I agree with a lot of what Denis Walsh said."

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 17, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Eddie Keher: Showing cards humiliates great players in front of their families

Eddie Keher makes it quite clear in his recently produced document that the brandishing of yellow and red cards has no place within the game of hurling.
Quite pointedly he claims that such cards are totally at variance with the "physicality and manliness" of the ancient game
His views was supported last week by current Kilkenny manager Brian Cody, with GAA President Liam O'Neill subsequently calling for an open debate on all aspects of the game of hurling.

Others have also rowed in, with many stating that if the game ain't broke, then don't fix it.
Keher was a revered figure on the pitch during his career with the Cats, winning a total of six All-Ireland titles. When he talks, people tend to listen!
Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Today with Sean O'Rourke, Keher outlined his frustration about what he calls the needless rituals of showing cards.

He said: "I never agreed with use of cards. They were introduced in 1970 in the soccer World Cup which was a wise decision because of the language barrier.
"It enabled referees to communicate better with the players of various countries.
"I abhor the whole ritual of showing cards to our hurlers.  It's a pompous and triumphalist exercise causing humiliation to our great players in front of their families, friends and supporters.
"It's a pompous and triumphalist exercise causing humiliation to our great players in front of their families"

"We must recognise that we have a wonderful organisation, but the greatest asset we have are the players. However there seems to be an attitude to get at those players and I don't think that's the way they should be treated."
Keher went on to add that players are now at a loss as to how to tackle.
"You can't commit a technical foul. We always admired players who went for the '50-50' ball or even the '40-60' ball. They were lauded and admired. Now if you commit a technical foul, the player is consigned to a passenger for the rest of the game.

"He can't tackle or do anything. That takes away from the great physical part of our game.
Dirty play is another thing and people have misinterpreted what I said about that. I don't advocate a return to the 'Hell's Kitchen' type of hurling. I'm talking about good, physical challenges and I just don't like seeing cards bandied about in a triumphalist way.

Players are at a loss to know how to tackle without committing a foul and incurring a yellow card.
"I ask a simple question. How does a back tackle a forward who's coming in with the ball on a solo run?  It just seems now that you can't tackle a player without getting a card or worse." 

Keher was later quoted a piece written by Denis Walsh in the Sunday Times.
"Brian Cody's line about the physicality in hurling has been aired on a loop for most of the decade. Kilkenny players were programmed to give belts and take belts and not lie down.
"Their rivals realised they had no hope against them without reaching a certain threshold of machismo and hurling elite referees increasingly became facilitators rather than policemen."

In response Keher added: "There has been a lot of talk about Kilkenny's physicality.
"No opposing player that played against Kilkenny in Brian Cody's reign has had to leave the field injured, whereas six Kilkenny players were felled with serious injuries during that period which incidentally went unpunished.
"As a side they challenge for everything and that's what we like about hurling. I wouldn't like that to disappear from the game.  I agree with a lot of what Denis Walsh said."

In response Keher added: "There has been a lot of talk about Kilkenny's physicality.
"No opposing player that played against Kilkenny in Brian Cody's reign has had to leave the field injured

is presumably horseshit.

https://soundcloud.com/rtesport/cyril-farrell-on-cards-on

Cyril Farrell on the cards

RTE have the social media so you can "like" or "share"
but Cyril's comments already have at least 20 likes, like   

It would be gas to get Pat Spillane to comment on Cody and Keher

Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2014, 05:58:09 PM

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 17, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Eddie Keher: Showing cards humiliates great players in front of their families

Eddie Keher makes it quite clear in his recently produced document that the brandishing of yellow and red cards has no place within the game of hurling.
Quite pointedly he claims that such cards are totally at variance with the "physicality and manliness" of the ancient game
His views was supported last week by current Kilkenny manager Brian Cody, with GAA President Liam O'Neill subsequently calling for an open debate on all aspects of the game of hurling.

Others have also rowed in, with many stating that if the game ain't broke, then don't fix it.
Keher was a revered figure on the pitch during his career with the Cats, winning a total of six All-Ireland titles. When he talks, people tend to listen!
Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Today with Sean O'Rourke, Keher outlined his frustration about what he calls the needless rituals of showing cards.

He said: "I never agreed with use of cards. They were introduced in 1970 in the soccer World Cup which was a wise decision because of the language barrier.
"It enabled referees to communicate better with the players of various countries.
"I abhor the whole ritual of showing cards to our hurlers.  It's a pompous and triumphalist exercise causing humiliation to our great players in front of their families, friends and supporters.
"It's a pompous and triumphalist exercise causing humiliation to our great players in front of their families"

"We must recognise that we have a wonderful organisation, but the greatest asset we have are the players. However there seems to be an attitude to get at those players and I don't think that's the way they should be treated."
Keher went on to add that players are now at a loss as to how to tackle.
"You can't commit a technical foul. We always admired players who went for the '50-50' ball or even the '40-60' ball. They were lauded and admired. Now if you commit a technical foul, the player is consigned to a passenger for the rest of the game.

"He can't tackle or do anything. That takes away from the great physical part of our game.
Dirty play is another thing and people have misinterpreted what I said about that. I don't advocate a return to the 'Hell's Kitchen' type of hurling. I'm talking about good, physical challenges and I just don't like seeing cards bandied about in a triumphalist way.

Players are at a loss to know how to tackle without committing a foul and incurring a yellow card.
"I ask a simple question. How does a back tackle a forward who's coming in with the ball on a solo run?  It just seems now that you can't tackle a player without getting a card or worse." 

Keher was later quoted a piece written by Denis Walsh in the Sunday Times.
"Brian Cody's line about the physicality in hurling has been aired on a loop for most of the decade. Kilkenny players were programmed to give belts and take belts and not lie down.
"Their rivals realised they had no hope against them without reaching a certain threshold of machismo and hurling elite referees increasingly became facilitators rather than policemen."

In response Keher added: "There has been a lot of talk about Kilkenny's physicality.
"No opposing player that played against Kilkenny in Brian Cody's reign has had to leave the field injured, whereas six Kilkenny players were felled with serious injuries during that period which incidentally went unpunished.
"As a side they challenge for everything and that's what we like about hurling. I wouldn't like that to disappear from the game.  I agree with a lot of what Denis Walsh said."

In response Keher added: "There has been a lot of talk about Kilkenny's physicality.
"No opposing player that played against Kilkenny in Brian Cody's reign has had to leave the field injured

is presumably horseshit.

No irish banker has ever been convicted.

Quote from: theskull1 on February 17, 2014, 05:36:52 PM

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 17, 2014, 09:55:28 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2014, 11:50:30 PM

Quote from: Premier Emperor on February 12, 2014, 02:58:59 PM
A year ago Cody was crying about Padraic Maher and wanting all sorts of punishments for a foul on Michael Rice.
Now, all because the Ginger Cat got red carded and Kilkenny lost, Darth Cody wants card done away with.

Let's just do away with referees and let Cody decide what constitutes fair play!

Two incidents at totally opposite ends of the spectrum is hardly helping your argument.

Has anyone got a link to the Maher pull. I only seen it live and at the time I remember thinking it was as dirty a swing that I'd ever seen at inter county in recent memory.

You must live in a cave if you think it was that bad.
It was a clumsy one handed pull on the ball where the hurley flew up and caught Rice on the hand.

Mahers hurl caught Rice because he swung well behind the ball. He never looked like he was interested in the ball when it happened. We're talking about a top IC hurler not some Div4 club hacker, so I'm not buying the clumsy argument. In my cave we were always taught to only pull when the balls there. Good advice which I'm sure has saved many's an ankle and hand from a bad injury. 

As I said ...my memory may have dimmed, but I do remember seeing it on the big screen when I was at the game and that's what I remember. Would anyone have a link to the incident online? Prepared to be proved wrong

5 mins in

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAy2xTotaws (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAy2xTotaws)

Wouldn't call it malicious but a very, very careless pull. His stick seemed to slide up Rice's stick.

There's little need for referees in hurling either, especially if they're going round sending off managers' sons. Sure the buck on the sideline could keep the score and let the lads on the pitch get on with their "manliness".
Looking at the NHL games over the weekend it seems the dunt in the back to knock down a lad about to pick the ball the ball is legal as is the man with the ball catching a would be tackler round the neck and wrestling him out of the way.

Cheers Tony.

To me it looked as if Rice opened himself up a bit and Maher took an opportunity to sail into him. It was a very wicked swing although I'm sure he regrets it knowing the severity of the injury he caused

QuoteCork chief calls on counties to shoot down 'Nash motion'
Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Cork GAA chairman Bob Ryan has launched a withering attack on the "Anthony Nash motion", questioning whether the GAA want to turn hurling into golf.

By John Fogarty
A motion from the playing rules committee will be voted on at Saturday's Congress making it illegal for a player to advance the ball deliberately passed the position where a free, penalty or sideline is to be struck from.

Ryan believes Cork goalkeeper Nash has been singled out for his success in converting two close-range frees in last year's All-Ireland finals.

Cork will strenuously oppose the motion in Croke Park and are urging counties to do likewise. "I would hope hurling people especially would see how nonsensical this motion is," said Ryan. "This one possible rule change would alter more than just how 20-metre frees and penalties are taken and I don't think it would be advantageous for the game. In hurling you must strike the ball using a forward motion. So if you win a 65 would it now become a 70? Maybe they want to change it to golf, I don't know. Maybe they now want people teeing up the ball!"

Ryan was taken aback by how the GAA have been so quick to react in an attempt to clearly neutralise Nash's style. "It is disappointing. I'm absolutely amazed that this attempt to change the rule is being made in view of the fact that 2013, by everybody's agreement, was the best year in the history of hurling. One of the highlights was Anthony Nash going up to take his frees. Now, for some strange reason, an attempt is being made to change. It defies logic."

At the Cork board's monthly meeting last week, Ryan suggested the rule change be debated at the hurling forum spoken of by GAA President Liam O'Neill.

He said he has had no feedback from Croke Park on the idea. "I don't know what their intentions are. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me," he said about the motion. "I think the thing to do now rather than go down the road of tinkering with hurling on a willy-nilly basis is to talk in the proper forum mentioned by the president and whatever needs to be rectified, do it, and then leave the game alone."

At the weekend, Clare boss Davy Fitzgerald stressed the importance for the motion to pass on the grounds of safety for players on the goal-line.

Former Cork defender Diarmuid O'Sullivan last week described the motion as "farcical". Speaking last month, ex-Wexford netminder Damien Fitzhenry felt it discriminated against Nash.

Prior to news of the playing rules committee discussing the rule change, former Clare goalkeeper Seamus Durack told this newspaper Nash's style had to be stamped out.

He said: "I'm not getting at Anthony who's a wonderful goalkeeper, but it's not right being allowed to throw the ball seven yards in front of you. It's a pure joke and must be stopped."

Irish Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cork-chief-calls-on-counties-to-shoot-down-nash-motion-259137.html)

Is this what we're doing now? Changing the rules to prevent the evolution of the game?  Nothing good ever comes out of changing the rules in response to isolated events.  Who can forget the unbelievably stupid decision to experiment with abolishing the opening clash and replace it with a puckout in the league, all because of one single incident in a game in the previous year.

If every penalty or short range free becomes unstoppable and goals become guaranteed then by all means adjust the rules or move the ball back a bit, but FFS wait until it becomes a problem!

That Cody/Keher proposal is nuts. Listen to the SG boys discussing mullocking quietly in 2012 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OImPNIj4g4

Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2014, 10:13:40 PM
There's little need for referees in hurling either, especially if they're going round sending off managers' sons. Sure the buck on the sideline could keep the score and let the lads on the pitch get on with their "manliness".
Looking at the NHL games over the weekend it seems the dunt in the back to knock down a lad about to pick the ball the ball is legal as is the man with the ball catching a would be tackler round the neck and wrestling him out of the way.

Christ you have a massive hang up about hurling and how its officiated

Seafoid,
  just think, your man Maher from Loughrea could get a call up for Galway if the cards are rescinded, he'd have a free reign in the new found manliness of hurling.

Eddie Keher wouldn't be long changing his mind if JJ Delaney was lying in the back of the goals after Johnny Maher had been manly with him.

 You are of course Johnney relating to this lovely scene lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ0_P0LpCFM

I've read a few articles welcoming the debate. Screw that. I wish there was a hack out there with the courage to say that Eddie Keher, while one of the true legends of the game, is talking absolute rot. They won't though because if you think the bout of knicker-twisting that took place when King Henry got his marching orders was a sight to behold, you ain't seen nothing until you've seen the reaction should anyone dare contradict Eddie.

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 18, 2014, 06:50:11 AM

QuoteCork chief calls on counties to shoot down 'Nash motion'
Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Cork GAA chairman Bob Ryan has launched a withering attack on the "Anthony Nash motion", questioning whether the GAA want to turn hurling into golf.

By John Fogarty
A motion from the playing rules committee will be voted on at Saturday's Congress making it illegal for a player to advance the ball deliberately passed the position where a free, penalty or sideline is to be struck from.

Ryan believes Cork goalkeeper Nash has been singled out for his success in converting two close-range frees in last year's All-Ireland finals.

Cork will strenuously oppose the motion in Croke Park and are urging counties to do likewise. "I would hope hurling people especially would see how nonsensical this motion is," said Ryan. "This one possible rule change would alter more than just how 20-metre frees and penalties are taken and I don't think it would be advantageous for the game. In hurling you must strike the ball using a forward motion. So if you win a 65 would it now become a 70? Maybe they want to change it to golf, I don't know. Maybe they now want people teeing up the ball!"

Ryan was taken aback by how the GAA have been so quick to react in an attempt to clearly neutralise Nash's style. "It is disappointing. I'm absolutely amazed that this attempt to change the rule is being made in view of the fact that 2013, by everybody's agreement, was the best year in the history of hurling. One of the highlights was Anthony Nash going up to take his frees. Now, for some strange reason, an attempt is being made to change. It defies logic."

At the Cork board's monthly meeting last week, Ryan suggested the rule change be debated at the hurling forum spoken of by GAA President Liam O'Neill.

He said he has had no feedback from Croke Park on the idea. "I don't know what their intentions are. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me," he said about the motion. "I think the thing to do now rather than go down the road of tinkering with hurling on a willy-nilly basis is to talk in the proper forum mentioned by the president and whatever needs to be rectified, do it, and then leave the game alone."

At the weekend, Clare boss Davy Fitzgerald stressed the importance for the motion to pass on the grounds of safety for players on the goal-line.

Former Cork defender Diarmuid O'Sullivan last week described the motion as "farcical". Speaking last month, ex-Wexford netminder Damien Fitzhenry felt it discriminated against Nash.

Prior to news of the playing rules committee discussing the rule change, former Clare goalkeeper Seamus Durack told this newspaper Nash's style had to be stamped out.

He said: "I'm not getting at Anthony who's a wonderful goalkeeper, but it's not right being allowed to throw the ball seven yards in front of you. It's a pure joke and must be stopped."

Irish Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cork-chief-calls-on-counties-to-shoot-down-nash-motion-259137.html)

Is this what we're doing now? Changing the rules to prevent the evolution of the game?  Nothing good ever comes out of changing the rules in response to isolated events.  Who can forget the unbelievably stupid decision to experiment with abolishing the opening clash and replace it with a puckout in the league, all because of one single incident in a game in the previous year.

If every penalty or short range free becomes unstoppable and goals become guaranteed then by all means adjust the rules or move the ball back a bit, but FFS wait until it becomes a problem!

Disagree entirely, this isn't one incident it's been something that has always been there but Nash has developed a style where the ball is now even closer when the ball is struck. It is only a matter of time before others manage to successfully throw the ball up even closer until a '21 yard' free becomes a joke term because it is actually being struck about 10 yards away. This is something that needs to be addressed now or else it will cause problems, it is already. People who defend this as being a skill are talking nonsense, just because something might take a bit of practice to do doesn't mean it should be allowed.

The only thing wrong with the current rules is that several of them are being ignored. The obvious ones like steps, charging, hands on opponents, thrown handpasses, red cards for striking and a few others

The debate should be, do we want to draft a new set of rules reflective of the current game and how it has evolved that would actually be adhered to, or do we want to put into print a charter that allows referees the leniency to apply certain ones at certain times (a bit likely rugby) depending on the circumstances. It might end up being an advantage rule with no limits, but at least it would give the referees clarity on their duties.

I don't particularly care which option is taken btw, but I find these debates rarely have much honesty. At least Eddie Keher is being honest, if somewhat wrong-headed. He has proposed something tangible rather than simply spouting guff about common sense and letting the game flow and expecting that to be good enough.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 18, 2014, 10:16:13 AM
The only thing wrong with the current rules is that several of them are being ignored. The obvious ones like steps, charging, hands on opponents, thrown handpasses, red cards for striking and a few others

The debate should be, do we want to draft a new set of rules reflective of the current game and how it has evolved that would actually be adhered to, or do we want to put into print a charter that allows referees the leniency to apply certain ones at certain times (a bit likely rugby) depending on the circumstances. It might end up being an advantage rule with no limits, but at least it would give the referees clarity on their duties.

I don't particularly care which option is taken btw, but I find these debates rarely have much honesty. At least Eddie Keher is being honest, if somewhat wrong-headed. He has proposed something tangible rather than simply spouting guff about common sense and letting the game flow and expecting that to be good enough.

Handpassing in its current form is now a joke.

As far as I can see Eddie is proposing that you don't get sent off unless you seriously harm another player. Eddie has come out with just about the maddest proposal that I can recall in any sport. There were two blatant frontal shoulders in the league over the weekend, the one on Aidan Walsh and the other in the Clare game (can't recall who) and both were caused not by being mistimed but by a total disregard for their opponent. This is what hurling is becoming because rules are not being applied so lads are doing what they want.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 18, 2014, 10:16:13 AM
I don't particularly care which option is taken btw, but I find these debates rarely have much honesty. At least Eddie Keher is being honest, if somewhat wrong-headed. He has proposed something tangible rather than simply spouting guff about common sense and letting the game flow and expecting that to be good enough.

I think you are being too generous to Eddie Keher. Honesty is all well and good, but we're not going to get very far if the terms of the debate are dictated by extreme ideas. How can you have a proper discussion with a man who has a fantasy view of what hurling was like in days of yore?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2014, 08:37:15 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2014, 10:13:40 PM
There's little need for referees in hurling either, especially if they're going round sending off managers' sons. Sure the buck on the sideline could keep the score and let the lads on the pitch get on with their "manliness".
Looking at the NHL games over the weekend it seems the dunt in the back to knock down a lad about to pick the ball the ball is legal as is the man with the ball catching a would be tackler round the neck and wrestling him out of the way.

Christ you have a massive hang up about hurling and how its officiated

No - just amazed at what is let go in it - especially the potentially dangerous things. And the hypocrisy of the pundits of course who never see anything wrong. Probably a sign of the insecurity of the minority game and its adherents.
As for the one handed throws that now go for handpasses.......  :D etc etc

Sliotar is far too light/ small  also imo. Point scoring is just far too easy.

Apart from that  the game is just fine.

However, have noticed a bit of recklessness in the tackle that wasn't there before faceguards became the norm . Players used to be alot more careful in protecting themselves and not endangering their opponents .

Quote from: Rossfan on February 18, 2014, 10:51:40 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2014, 08:37:15 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2014, 10:13:40 PM
There's little need for referees in hurling either, especially if they're going round sending off managers' sons. Sure the buck on the sideline could keep the score and let the lads on the pitch get on with their "manliness".
Looking at the NHL games over the weekend it seems the dunt in the back to knock down a lad about to pick the ball the ball is legal as is the man with the ball catching a would be tackler round the neck and wrestling him out of the way.

Christ you have a massive hang up about hurling and how its officiated

No - just amazed at what is let go in it - especially the potentially dangerous things. And the hypocrisy of the pundits of course who never see anything wrong. Probably a sign of the insecurity of the minority game and its adherents.
As for the one handed throws that now go for handpasses.......  :D etc etc

It's down to the referee, I'm very particular with handpasses, they can be very hard to spot (as a referee) I was on the end of some very bad decisions myself when managing our senior team at Croke, I thought that the handpasses the Kilkenny team did that day were borderline, I spoke to the referee also and he was happy enough with them, interpretation works for you and against you at times.

In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on, of course there are times when the referee will miss something and times when he'll call for a foul that no one sees. It happens in every sport just ask the Liverpool boys about the Arsenal game!!

I see nothing wrong with the rules in hurling, I'm a player (both codes) and a referee again just my opinion

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2014, 11:29:09 AM
In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on

Exactly the kind of thing that brings out the 'let the game flow' crowd.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2014, 11:29:09 AM
of course there are times when the referee will miss something and times when he'll call for a foul that no one sees. It happens in every sport just ask the Liverpool boys about the Arsenal game!!

Let's not ;)

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2014, 10:33:24 AM

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 18, 2014, 10:16:13 AM
I don't particularly care which option is taken btw, but I find these debates rarely have much honesty. At least Eddie Keher is being honest, if somewhat wrong-headed. He has proposed something tangible rather than simply spouting guff about common sense and letting the game flow and expecting that to be good enough.

I think you are being too generous to Eddie Keher. Honesty is all well and good, but we're not going to get very far if the terms of the debate are dictated by extreme ideas. How can you have a proper discussion with a man who has a fantasy view of what hurling was like in days of yore?

I would take on board the school of thought that foul play is far more likely to punished on the scoreboard in hurling than in football. Any offence up to 90 or 100 metres away from your goal can result in a score conceded. That area of the field where you can commit a tactical foul is small. In football you can pull and drag beyond 45 metres without the same risk. The  black card seems to be a filter to catch this.

So fouling in hurling isn't as clear a path to success, so there may be a valid debate on how and when cards should be issued.
The proposal to remove cards for non-injuring fouls as suggested puts no barrier on repetitive fouling and is a bad idea in my view.

What is telling is that Keher is viewing the world through the eyes of the fouler as opposed to the foulee, bristling at how referees treat them and the like. Widening the debate to hear from players would be interesting. If the question was asked, I'm sure most players would rather not get fouled every time they go near the ball. Regardless of what frees and cards were issued. I feel the well has already been poisoned for this point of view in the "man's game" that hurling is.

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2014, 11:36:50 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2014, 11:29:09 AM
In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on

Exactly the kind of thing that brings out the 'let the game flow' crowd.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2014, 11:29:09 AM
of course there are times when the referee will miss something and times when he'll call for a foul that no one sees. It happens in every sport just ask the Liverpool boys about the Arsenal game!!

Let's not ;)

We could go to a hundred club games and not really have much to talk about but when a game is televised and all areas are scrutinised by pundits with the ability to see tackles, steps taken, blatant fouls and other going ons (due to the 25/30 cameras at the game) then yes it does look like the referee has lost the run of himself, the referee has only one look at it, in that split second he blows or doesn't blow because he's not a 100% sure.

We talk about it being one of the fastest fields sports in the world with great skill and bravery, give the poor referee a chance to get the majority of the decisions right, he's only human after all

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2014, 11:36:50 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2014, 11:29:09 AM
In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on

Exactly the kind of thing that brings out the 'let the game flow' crowd.

Pity Milltown couldn't get to Ref a few Inter County games.
But of course "hurlingman" won't have that because Mill is from bloody Antrim and wouldn't understand the game.  ::)

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2014, 09:31:21 AM
I've read a few articles welcoming the debate. Screw that. I wish there was a hack out there with the courage to say that Eddie Keher, while one of the true legends of the game, is talking absolute rot. They won't though because if you think the bout of knicker-twisting that took place when King Henry got his marching orders was a sight to behold, you ain't seen nothing until you've seen the reaction should anyone dare contradict Eddie.

Exactly/
I wonder did Eddie bother using safety belts in the 70s. There were loads of other things back then that were shite such as people smoking 4 packs of fags a day.

He comes across as a hurling version of the Taliban
Poor King Henry - got sent off. Get over it.

Quote from: Rossfan on February 18, 2014, 11:47:33 AM

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2014, 11:36:50 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2014, 11:29:09 AM
In the main there isn't much wrong with the rules of hurling if the referee deals with the fundamentals early on, blowing for 5/6 steps in the first 5/10 mins usually knocks it on the head, early pulls and yellow given knocks it on the head and so on, the players generally cop on and play on

Exactly the kind of thing that brings out the 'let the game flow' crowd.

Pity Milltown couldn't get to Ref a few Inter County games.
But of course "hurlingman" won't have that because Mill is from bloody Antrim and wouldn't understand the game.  ::)

Hey I don't get everything right, I've had my fair share of clangers, that's the thing hard to please everyone. There are some decent referees out there refereeing at lower levels, seems that the main matches in hurling are always refereed by the same elite group not sure how they are given the top games all the time

Quote from: deiseach on February 12, 2014, 02:01:53 PM
Cody and Keher are old school fantasists. No dirt in hurling? Give over.

O'Neill wants to establish a forum for debate about the future of hurling. Sounds like a good idea to me, especially if the debate would be otherwise dominated by the likes of Cody and Keher.

Imagine the uproar if Henry got sent off in the AIF and the cats lost the match

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 18, 2014, 06:50:11 AM
Is this what we're doing now? Changing the rules to prevent the evolution of the game?  Nothing good ever comes out of changing the rules in response to isolated events.  Who can forget the unbelievably stupid decision to experiment with abolishing the opening clash and replace it with a puckout in the league, all because of one single incident in a game in the previous year.

If every penalty or short range free becomes unstoppable and goals become guaranteed then by all means adjust the rules or move the ball back a bit, but FFS wait until it becomes a problem!

It is dangerous though. Would you stand in front of one of them Eamon, cos I know I wouldn't? It does seem unfair on Nash because it's a great skill to be able to lift it so far and still strike it so well, but it also seemed unfair that Nash could lift it so close to goal and players still had to stand on the line. The fairest solution is allowing the defenders and keeper to charge out once the ball is touched a la the first 21 yard free in the drawn final which the Clare keeper saved with his arse. It's probably even more dangerous though.

Eamonn
Should the defenders be allowed to fit body armour prior to the penalty/21 yard free being taken?

Where Nash strikes the sliothar it doesn't give any defender time to adjust to the flight of the ball. I think there should be a minimum travel distance on close frees for this reason.

Quote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2014, 06:56:52 PM
Eamonn
Should the defenders be allowed to fit body armour prior to the penalty/21 yard free being taken?

Where Nash strikes the sliothar it doesn't give any defender time to adjust to the flight of the ball. I think there should be a minimum travel distance on close frees for this reason.

The line should be line imo. If his style is to play the ball higher and further forward than average then he has to start well behind the line. In soccer or rugby you have to kick a ball from the mark, anything else is an unfair advantage.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 18, 2014, 07:55:18 PM

Quote from: theskull1 on February 18, 2014, 06:56:52 PM
Eamonn
Should the defenders be allowed to fit body armour prior to the penalty/21 yard free being taken?

Where Nash strikes the sliothar it doesn't give any defender time to adjust to the flight of the ball. I think there should be a minimum travel distance on close frees for this reason.

The line should be line imo. If his style is to play the ball higher and further forward than average then he has to start well behind the line. In soccer or rugby you have to kick a ball from the mark, anything else is an unfair advantage.

Same as Gaelic football, the player moves back from the spot to run up and kick it from the spot from where the foul was committed

Should you set the ball on the line of the D as opposed to the 20 metre line?

TBH, this is nothing new, free takers have been throwing the ball forward for years, Nash is just another exponent of it.

IMO I'd make the ball slightly deader, not heavier nor bigger, just change the core of the ball so it isn't as responsive, lads are throwing over points from 70 and 80 yards with flicks of the wrists now, I know strength and conditioning have improved, but the make up of the ball is vastly different when it was a cork centre wrapped in cotton thread, you'd not be lashing too many points over from distance with them.

On the body armour thing, I knew a senior physio lecturer in UUJ pretty well and he'd a physio over from Canada involved with one of the pro ice hockey teams and took him to one of our games. After the game brought the physio down to the changing rooms and the lad wanted to see the ball and the keepers gear, he couldn't believe the lack of protection keepers had on, O'Neills finest polyester, his words on leaving were "man, the guy doesn't even wear a cup, that's crazy"

Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2014, 09:21:16 AM
Should you set the ball on the line of the D as opposed to the 20 metre line?

TBH, this is nothing new, free takers have been throwing the ball forward for years, Nash is just another exponent of it.

IMO I'd make the ball slightly deader, not heavier nor bigger, just change the core of the ball so it isn't as responsive, lads are throwing over points from 70 and 80 yards with flicks of the wrists now, I know strength and conditioning have improved, but the make up of the ball is vastly different when it was a cork centre wrapped in cotton thread, you'd not be lashing too many points over from distance with them.

On the body armour thing, I knew a senior physio lecturer in UUJ pretty well and he'd a physio over from Canada involved with one of the pro ice hockey teams and took him to one of our games. After the game brought the physio down to the changing rooms and the lad wanted to see the ball and the keepers gear, he couldn't believe the lack of protection keepers had on, O'Neills finest polyester, his words on leaving were "man, the guy doesn't even wear a cup, that's crazy"

Only get a cup if you win, no loser medals!!

Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2014, 09:21:16 AM
Should you set the ball on the line of the D as opposed to the 20 metre line?

TBH, this is nothing new, free takers have been throwing the ball forward for years, Nash is just another exponent of it.

IMO I'd make the ball slightly deader, not heavier nor bigger, just change the core of the ball so it isn't as responsive, lads are throwing over points from 70 and 80 yards with flicks of the wrists now, I know strength and conditioning have improved, but the make up of the ball is vastly different when it was a cork centre wrapped in cotton thread, you'd not be lashing too many points over from distance with them.

On the body armour thing, I knew a senior physio lecturer in UUJ pretty well and he'd a physio over from Canada involved with one of the pro ice hockey teams and took him to one of our games. After the game brought the physio down to the changing rooms and the lad wanted to see the ball and the keepers gear, he couldn't believe the lack of protection keepers had on, O'Neills finest polyester, his words on leaving were "man, the guy doesn't even wear a cup, that's crazy"

I watch a bit of ice hockey and there is way more mullocking than in hurling. The hits can be massive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5xkMNIt-5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8CZCX42X-o

They have the barriers right on the edge of the rink and the ice is naturally slippy so if you lose control or you get pushed headfirst into that the risk is just too high. 
I wouldn't want my son playing the sport.

Ronny Keller was paralysed in Switzerland last year playing pro hockey  .  Absolutely pointless

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronny_Keller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc_o0CskAeo

In this regard I would agree with Canice Picklington. Hurling is more manly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afHczPWkYEs

Quote from: seafoid on February 18, 2014, 11:55:25 AM

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2014, 09:31:21 AM
I've read a few articles welcoming the debate. Screw that. I wish there was a hack out there with the courage to say that Eddie Keher, while one of the true legends of the game, is talking absolute rot. They won't though because if you think the bout of knicker-twisting that took place when King Henry got his marching orders was a sight to behold, you ain't seen nothing until you've seen the reaction should anyone dare contradict Eddie.

Exactly/
I wonder did Eddie bother using safety belts in the 70s. There were loads of other things back then that were shite such as people smoking 4 packs of fags a day.

He comes across as a hurling version of the Taliban
Poor King Henry - got sent off. Get over it.

Somebody should point him in the direction of Noel Hickey's challenge on Eugene Cloonan in Thurles '06 - attempted decapitation.

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2014, 01:43:19 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2014, 09:21:16 AM
Should you set the ball on the line of the D as opposed to the 20 metre line?

TBH, this is nothing new, free takers have been throwing the ball forward for years, Nash is just another exponent of it.

IMO I'd make the ball slightly deader, not heavier nor bigger, just change the core of the ball so it isn't as responsive, lads are throwing over points from 70 and 80 yards with flicks of the wrists now, I know strength and conditioning have improved, but the make up of the ball is vastly different when it was a cork centre wrapped in cotton thread, you'd not be lashing too many points over from distance with them.

On the body armour thing, I knew a senior physio lecturer in UUJ pretty well and he'd a physio over from Canada involved with one of the pro ice hockey teams and took him to one of our games. After the game brought the physio down to the changing rooms and the lad wanted to see the ball and the keepers gear, he couldn't believe the lack of protection keepers had on, O'Neills finest polyester, his words on leaving were "man, the guy doesn't even wear a cup, that's crazy"

I watch a bit of ice hockey and there is way more mullocking than in hurling. The hits can be massive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5xkMNIt-5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8CZCX42X-o

They have the barriers right on the edge of the rink and the ice is naturally slippy so if you lose control or you get pushed headfirst into that the risk is just too high. 
I wouldn't want my son playing the sport.

Ronny Keller was paralysed in Switzerland last year playing pro hockey  .  Absolutely pointless

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronny_Keller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc_o0CskAeo

In this regard I would agree with Canice Picklington. Hurling is more manly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afHczPWkYEs

The lad was thinking more of in the line of getting hit with a ball as opposed to a shoulder charge or body check which never happens in hurling obviously.   8)

Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2014, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2014, 01:43:19 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2014, 09:21:16 AM
Should you set the ball on the line of the D as opposed to the 20 metre line?

TBH, this is nothing new, free takers have been throwing the ball forward for years, Nash is just another exponent of it.

IMO I'd make the ball slightly deader, not heavier nor bigger, just change the core of the ball so it isn't as responsive, lads are throwing over points from 70 and 80 yards with flicks of the wrists now, I know strength and conditioning have improved, but the make up of the ball is vastly different when it was a cork centre wrapped in cotton thread, you'd not be lashing too many points over from distance with them.

On the body armour thing, I knew a senior physio lecturer in UUJ pretty well and he'd a physio over from Canada involved with one of the pro ice hockey teams and took him to one of our games. After the game brought the physio down to the changing rooms and the lad wanted to see the ball and the keepers gear, he couldn't believe the lack of protection keepers had on, O'Neills finest polyester, his words on leaving were "man, the guy doesn't even wear a cup, that's crazy"

I watch a bit of ice hockey and there is way more mullocking than in hurling. The hits can be massive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5xkMNIt-5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8CZCX42X-o

They have the barriers right on the edge of the rink and the ice is naturally slippy so if you lose control or you get pushed headfirst into that the risk is just too high. 
I wouldn't want my son playing the sport.

Ronny Keller was paralysed in Switzerland last year playing pro hockey  .  Absolutely pointless

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronny_Keller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc_o0CskAeo

In this regard I would agree with Canice Picklington. Hurling is more manly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afHczPWkYEs

The lad was thinking more of in the line of getting hit with a ball as opposed to a shoulder charge or body check which never happens in hurling obviously.   8)

Ice hockey players get the puck in the face as well

When you have players like Pat Horgan & Henry Shefflin sent off wrongly (subsequently proven by cards being rescinded) and Ryan O'Dwyer also sent off very harshly there is a problem with the application of the card rules.Three major championship games last year heavily influenced by the wrongful issuing of red cards is three games too many. It is only right to question the card rules in hurling and how they are applied.

Quote from: onetomany on February 20, 2014, 01:58:13 PM
When you have players like Pat Horgan & Henry Shefflin sent off wrongly (subsequently proven by cards being rescinded) and Ryan O'Dwyer also sent off very harshly there is a problem with the application of the card rules.Three major championship games last year heavily influenced by the wrongful issuing of red cards is three games too many. It is only right to question the card rules in hurling and how they are applied.

Sometime condoms split. But getting rid of them altogether is not the answer.

Quote from: onetomany on February 20, 2014, 01:58:13 PM
When you have players like Pat Horgan & Henry Shefflin sent off wrongly (subsequently proven by cards being rescinded) and Ryan O'Dwyer also sent off very harshly there is a problem with the application of the card rules.Three major championship games last year heavily influenced by the wrongful issuing of red cards is three games too many. It is only right to question the card rules in hurling and how they are applied.

Which of Henry's yellows was rescinded?

The one where he skelped Kearney on the hand or the other one where he'd his arm and hurl around the neck of the Cork lad?

Quote from: johnneycool on February 20, 2014, 03:29:02 PM
Which of Henry's yellows was rescinded?

The one where he skelped Kearney on the hand or the other one where he'd his arm and hurl around the neck of the Cork lad?

The one where he hit Kearney's hurl about a foot below his where his hand actually was, having made no contact with Kearney's hand whatsoever, as proved by the video evidence which led to the card being rescinded. That one.

The other one was as blatant a yellow as you could get.

Quote from: theblackandamber on February 20, 2014, 10:18:33 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on February 20, 2014, 03:29:02 PM
Which of Henry's yellows was rescinded?

The one where he skelped Kearney on the hand or the other one where he'd his arm and hurl around the neck of the Cork lad?

The one where he hit Kearney's hurl about a foot below his where his hand actually was, having made no contact with Kearney's hand whatsoever, as proved by the video evidence which led to the card being rescinded. That one.

The other one was as blatant a yellow as you could get.

IMO Cody was wrong to start Shefflin in that game as he was a mile off the pace hence the late pull as Kearney was well away from him.

Maybe this year he'll be back to his best.

Forget your login or is there a new influx of cats?

Over the hills veterans dishing out slaps to the young lads is one of the oldest traditions in the GAA.

Quote from: Premier Emperor on March 19, 2014, 10:09:56 AM
Over the hills veterans dishing out slaps to the young lads is one of the oldest traditions in the GAA.

Jez, that sieve like Tipp defence could do with a few lads dishing out a few slaps..

Eamon O'Shea getting a bit of stick in the papers now, from John McIntyre for his big entourage and what not and Deccy Fanning for poor tactics in the last few games leaving the fullback line badly exposed.

Will Dublin be in awe of the tradition on display?

Quote from: johnneycool on March 20, 2014, 01:58:08 PM
Eamon O'Shea getting a bit of stick in the papers now, from John McIntyre for his big entourage and what not and Deccy Fanning for poor tactics in the last few games leaving the fullback line badly exposed.

Will Dublin be in awe of the tradition on display?

From John McIntyre? Good jaysus.

I guarantee that's coming from the 'Kieran McGeeney backlash' but in fairness McIntyre could do with keeping his head below the parapet.

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 20, 2014, 02:20:56 PM

From John McIntyre? Good jaysus.

I guarantee that's coming from the 'Kieran McGeeney backlash' but in fairness McIntyre could do with keeping his head below the parapet.

I always enjoy reading McIntyre in the Connacht Tribune. He's a good hurling journalist, but yeah, it does seem a bit rich when he criticises managers, given his wholly unsuccessful (*****though a little unlucky) forays into inter-county management. Better that though, than a journalist who's never put his money where his mouth is.

***** If Damien Fitzhenry hadn't pulled off that late save from Billy Dooley in '97 or if Ollie Canning hadn't gone off injured with 5 minutes left against Tipp in 2010, his managerial career might have turned out differently.

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2014, 03:11:28 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2014, 02:41:30 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2014, 01:43:19 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on February 19, 2014, 09:21:16 AM
Should you set the ball on the line of the D as opposed to the 20 metre line?

TBH, this is nothing new, free takers have been throwing the ball forward for years, Nash is just another exponent of it.

IMO I'd make the ball slightly deader, not heavier nor bigger, just change the core of the ball so it isn't as responsive, lads are throwing over points from 70 and 80 yards with flicks of the wrists now, I know strength and conditioning have improved, but the make up of the ball is vastly different when it was a cork centre wrapped in cotton thread, you'd not be lashing too many points over from distance with them.

On the body armour thing, I knew a senior physio lecturer in UUJ pretty well and he'd a physio over from Canada involved with one of the pro ice hockey teams and took him to one of our games. After the game brought the physio down to the changing rooms and the lad wanted to see the ball and the keepers gear, he couldn't believe the lack of protection keepers had on, O'Neills finest polyester, his words on leaving were "man, the guy doesn't even wear a cup, that's crazy"

I watch a bit of ice hockey and there is way more mullocking than in hurling. The hits can be massive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5xkMNIt-5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8CZCX42X-o

They have the barriers right on the edge of the rink and the ice is naturally slippy so if you lose control or you get pushed headfirst into that the risk is just too high. 
I wouldn't want my son playing the sport.

Ronny Keller was paralysed in Switzerland last year playing pro hockey  .  Absolutely pointless

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronny_Keller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc_o0CskAeo

In this regard I would agree with Canice Picklington. Hurling is more manly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afHczPWkYEs

The lad was thinking more of in the line of getting hit with a ball as opposed to a shoulder charge or body check which never happens in hurling obviously.   8)

Ice hockey players get the puck in the face as well

GAA are going to trial new penalty rules in the pre season competitions. Only the goalkeeper can stand in the goals. So instead of 3, it's reduced to one.

I personally thought two would have been a decent compromise.

Hurling has always been defined by the courage and bravery of the men who play it and it's why hurlers and the game of hurling is so admired.

Bravery isn't restricted to hurlers - there are plenty of brave men and women playing other Gaelic games but this is another example of human bravery and determination :

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/happy-return-after-private-fight-for-eddie-connolly-30865614.html

Fair play Eddie.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/2020-committee-eyes-automatic-subs-for-second-yellow-card-305375.html

2020 committee eyes automatic subs for second yellow card

By John Fogarty
GAA Correspondent

An automatic substitution for a second yellow card is expected to be among the Hurling 2020 recommendations released later today.

The group, chaired by Tipperary's 2010 All-Ireland winning manager Liam Sheedy, are set to propose teams be allowed to replace players for second but lower grade cautionable offences. Double yellow red cards would continue to exist but for more serious transgressions.

The introduction of an advantage rule, the one-versus-one penalty, a separate referees body for hurling and a blueprint for the development of the game in both strong, up-and-coming and weaker counties are speculated to be among the recommendations which will go forward to Congress in Cavan next month.

It is the committee's contention that too many players have been sent off after picking up second yellow cards for relatively innocuous fouls and that an automatic substitution would be a more appropriate form of punishment.

Although there appears to be no appetite for a black card in hurling, it may well be introduced if there is confusion about exactly what yellow card is shown. In January 2013, Croke Park amended the Football Review Committee's deliberate "yellow and you're off" rule as it was not only deemed too severe but they also recognised difficulties there might be in distinguishing one yellow card from another.

A five-second advantage rule, identical to that currently in operation in Gaelic football, is also being proposed as well as one-versus-one penalties with the sliotar being struck before or on the 20 metre line.

The new penalty format will be trialled in this month's pre-season competitions, the Waterford Crystal Cup and the Walsh and Kehoe Cups before a final motion is formulated.

One suggestion which will stir plenty of debate is a separate national referees body for hurling, something which is unlikely to curry much favour in Croke Park. However, Cork secretary Frank Murphy recently insisted on the measure: "Hurling and Gaelic football are two very distinctive games. It would be in the interest of both games that each would have separate referees and appointments committees at national level."

Former Wexford manager Liam Griffin called for the divide back in 2002 and his sentiments were echoed by ex-Limerick manager John Allen in 2013. After Henry Shefflin and Pa Horgan's controversial sendings off that summer, he said: "Referees are under huge pressure to play to the rules and so on. I'd lot of sympathy for Barry Kelly and for James McGrath from the Munster final. You make a decision in real time and people can parse it and analyse it on TV and papers. A lot of the yellow cards are for very innocuous fouls. It puts a lot of pressure on players and referees if they give a yellow card to a player early on. I think there needs to be a separate hurling referees group and forum because hurling and football are very different games. I just feel that's probably necessary."

The belief among several hurling counties is their concerns about the handling of the game are not heard at central level. The last three national referees committee chairmen had been inter-county football match officials — current incumbent Pat McEnaney, Mick Curley and PJ McGrath.

A separate of body for refereeing could have advantages and disadvantages. However I fear that this could be the tail wagging the dog. A separate hurling refereeing body could be more easily bullied by the 'let the game flow' merchants and the loons who believe in cards only for serious injuries.

Far from improving hurling, it could become an even more incestuous group where those that sit on it fear their 'hurling men' credentials are under question and are easily brought to heel. What previous hurling groupings and committees have shown is that the the elite counties act primarily in their own selfish interests.

If counties like Antrim, Laois and Carlow began taking scalps of big name counties by employing the sort of robust play that has now become common place at the top level, you can be sure there would be demands for a rules crack down.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 06, 2015, 10:04:46 AM
A separate of body for refereeing could have advantages and disadvantages. However I fear that this could be the tail wagging the dog. A separate hurling refereeing body could be more easily bullied by the 'let the game flow' merchants and the loons who believe in cards only for serious injuries.

Far from improving hurling, it could become an even more incestuous group where those that sit on it fear their 'hurling men' credentials are under question and are easily brought to heel. What previous hurling groupings and committees have shown is that the the elite counties act primarily in their own selfish interests.

If counties like Antrim, Laois and Carlow began taking scalps of big name counties by employing the sort of robust play that has now become common place at the top level, you can be sure there would be demands for a rules crack down.

There is evidence of that above already with the 2 yellow card replacement suggestion. Since no one ever approves of red cards in hurling, and the above will dilute the impact of yellow cards, why bother with cards at all? Just have a rule that allows a ref to tell a manager to 'get Tommy off - he has maimed twice already' and if your not careful I might have to phone his mother.

Another rule change that would suit the teams with stronger panels and subs benches.

It's a crazy rule to propose in my mind. Imagine the confusion there? If they want something like that, just bring in the black card for hurling and be done with it.

If they feel that some sendings off are cheap because one of the yellows is 'soft' then change the punishment for the soft fouls and make them not be yellow worthy.

A yellow is a yellow, and two yellows is a red. That's simple and fair enough. Why they need to say a yellow is a yellow, and two yellows is a red, unless one of them yellows is softish and really shouldn't be a yellow, in which case it's really a black card, but not really a black card because we don't need a black card in hurling, no sireee bob.

Quote from: AZOffaly on January 06, 2015, 03:21:37 PM
It's a crazy rule to propose in my mind. Imagine the confusion there? If they want something like that, just bring in the black card for hurling and be done with it.

If they feel that some sendings off are cheap because one of the yellows is 'soft' then change the punishment for the soft fouls and make them not be yellow worthy.

A yellow is a yellow, and two yellows is a red. That's simple and fair enough. Why they need to say a yellow is a yellow, and two yellows is a red, unless one of them yellows is softish and really shouldn't be a yellow, in which case it's really a black card, but not really a black card because we don't need a black card in hurling, no sireee bob.

Two categories of yellow cards are needed. Should we give referees two yellow cards of varying shades? A pastel shade for the soft yellow and a dark yellow for the harsher foul?

Yes. There should be a graduated colour scheme of cards per type of foul. Start off with a nice beige/eggshell creamy colour, move on up to a shade of 'touch of sunshine', then into some sort of 'pineapple delight' before actually hitting yellow. Then from there to red you'd obviously have several shades of orange and mauves or cerise pinks before getting the dreaded red. If it was used correctly, the ref could have a big colour wheel like in Homebase, and just show the player the relevant shade.

Aye, colour charts would definitely cut out the need for the ref to carry several cards.

Any flakes should be replicated and measured on a High Striker machine to see what colour should be.
(http://www.altitudeevents.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/striker-featured.jpg)

Red cards only to occur when a player gets injured and the hurley gets broken. Eddie Keher to be the final adjudicator on whether all the criteria are met.
Don't forget the list of exemptions from red cards:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=22344.msg1264774#msg1264774

Maybe if they did away with Refs then "hurlingman" in all his guises will be happy.

Quote from: AZOffaly on January 06, 2015, 03:21:37 PM
It's a crazy rule to propose in my mind. Imagine the confusion there? If they want something like that, just bring in the black card for hurling and be done with it.

If they feel that some sendings off are cheap because one of the yellows is 'soft' then change the punishment for the soft fouls and make them not be yellow worthy.

A yellow is a yellow, and two yellows is a red. That's simple and fair enough. Why they need to say a yellow is a yellow, and two yellows is a red, unless one of them yellows is softish and really shouldn't be a yellow, in which case it's really a black card, but not really a black card because we don't need a black card in hurling, no sireee bob.

Agree 100% but you are forgetting it's a mans game. Scrap all cards.  :P

Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2015, 10:05:55 PM
Maybe if they did away with Refs then "hurlingman" in all his guises will be happy.

Or just let Brian Gavin ref all the games. Although Tipp hurling man wouldn't be too happy with that. They really think Offaly lads are out to get them, Brian Gavin and Diarmuid Kirwan are the two refs I always hear about :)

Why not a black card in hurling ?.

Quote from: orangeman on January 07, 2015, 10:45:39 AM
Why not a black card in hurling ?.

Ah here now, there's no cynicism in hurling at all, just pure manly stuff.

(c) Eddie Keher.

Quote from: AZOffaly on January 07, 2015, 09:18:27 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2015, 10:05:55 PM
Maybe if they did away with Refs then "hurlingman" in all his guises will be happy.

Or just let Brian Gavin ref all the games. Although Tipp hurling man wouldn't be too happy with that. They really think Offaly lads are out to get them, Brian Gavin and Diarmuid Kirwan are the two refs I always hear about :)

For a start only Munstermen should be allowed to Ref hurling games - but should have no whistle and no cards. The notebook should only be for keeping the scores and if a team is one point behind the game should continue to the next score.
Anyway are there any good or sensible points in the thing or is it just "hurlingmen" indulging themselves?
Squad numbers??!!! :o

I like the 1v1 penalty. That brings back the advantage to the fouled player, but it still gives the goalie a chance of saving it, without being leathered from 10 yards away.

I'm not so sure about the 1 v 1 penalty.
The advantage will overwhelmingly be with the forward, and after a few weeks when all the penalty takers have perfected their strike, it could be very rare that a penalty will be saved.

What I can see happening is that referees will be a bit more reluctant to give a penalty knowing that it'll almost certainly result in a goal. There will also be a bigger incentive for forwards to try and play for a penalty.

I suppose we'll just have to see how it pans out in the league & early competitions.

As for 2 yellows and you're subbed off -that has no chance of being passed, nor would I like it to be. If they want to do something about the "soft yellows" then bring in the black card like football.

I think in hurling, if a penalty has been given, it's nearly always in a situation where a goal was nearly a formality if the player wasn't fouled, barring a miraculous save. In that case, I'm not sure it's a bad thing that it's nearly a guaranteed goal from the penalty. The idea is to reward the attacker, not to give the defender a second chance.

They should have got 10 decent level penalty takers in to take a lot of pot shots at few good keepers and recorded the result of the experiment before they formed an opinion on whether it should be changed or not 

I think they did do something like that, can't say for sure who took the penalties or who was in nets but there was something akin to what you suggest happened in Thurles around December time.

Quote from: theskull1 on January 08, 2015, 03:57:34 PM
They should have got 10 decent level penalty takers in to take a lot of pot shots at few good keepers and recorded the result of the experiment before they formed an opinion on whether it should be changed or not

Agreed theskull1,
It appears that they got 2/3 keepers with 3/4 penalty takers over a couple of hours on a single day in semple stadium.
It really should have been for a much larger sample, over a few weeks.

Maybe we have been approaching the argument from the wrong angle.

The hurling royalty want cards scrapped as it is not manly or at least replacements allowed, while we, the hurling serfs at the bottom of the pyramid, need cards to deal with the important issues, such as injustice and our love of controversy.

The happy medium could be changing the rules to suit the manly minded royalty while keeping the drama of the cards. You could get a yellow card for not going in 'hell for leather' and a black card for, say, covering your manhood when a fella is shooting in your direction (a particularly unmanly sight).

A red card could be reserved for the heinous crime of not rushing in when a 'schmozzle' breaks out.

Quote from: muppet on January 08, 2015, 11:21:48 PM
Maybe we have been approaching the argument from the wrong angle.

The hurling royalty want cards scrapped as it is not manly or at least replacements allowed, while we, the hurling serfs at the bottom of the pyramid, need cards to deal with the important issues, such as injustice and our love of controversy.

The happy medium could be changing the rules to suit the manly minded royalty while keeping the drama of the cards. You could get a yellow card for not going in 'hell for leather' and a black card for, say, covering your manhood when a fella is shooting in your direction (a particularly unmanly sight).

A red card could be reserved for the heinous crime of not rushing in when a 'schmozzle' breaks out.

Sometimes the hurling elite need saved from themselves IMO.
Eddie Keher went off in a nonsense filled rant last year, was gave an airing as he's a Kilkenny great so his credentials are beyond reproach and no one in this 2020 committee has the liathróidí to stand up and say he's talking bollox.
Lord knows what crap they'll come up with then have to review after someone from the not so traditional counties avails of this new freedom and flails lumps out of Lar Corbett or some other sod.

Quote from: theskull1 on January 08, 2015, 03:57:34 PM
They should have got 10 decent level penalty takers in to take a lot of pot shots at few good keepers and recorded the result of the experiment before they formed an opinion on whether it should be changed or not

That would have been no crack at all. And far too radical thinking.

Quote from: orangeman on January 09, 2015, 09:08:40 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on January 08, 2015, 03:57:34 PM
They should have got 10 decent level penalty takers in to take a lot of pot shots at few good keepers and recorded the result of the experiment before they formed an opinion on whether it should be changed or not

That would have been no crack at all. And far too radical thinking.

That's what they did. In fairness to them, they spent a day (some say it should have been longer) in Thurles with the likes of Joe Canning, Anthony Nash and others taking penalties of different configurations.

By the way, the first one was scored last night I think in the Waterford Crystal. A lad from Waterford, playing with UCC, scored against Anthony Nash :) I expect the rule to be revoked by the end of the weekend.

Changing things just for the sake of changing them ffs! too much interpretation for referees to adjust what is a soft foul whats not! What clampet came up with that?

Two men in the nets would make it a bit of a fighting chance for keeper and other player, still think the vast majority of penalties would be scored, I don't buy into the player would almost every time score a goal if not 'fouled' in the box line, especially in club hurling

So can we look forward to diving becoming a spectacle if the 3 pointer is more certain outcome with a penalty?

Quote from: theskull1 on January 09, 2015, 12:46:52 PM
So can we look forward to diving becoming a spectacle if the 3 pointer is more certain outcome with a penalty?

gerrup the yard with ya, ya bollox ye for suggesting such a thing happens in hurling!

Eoin Larkin doesn't throw his arms in the air and fall to the ground for nothing yo know!

All inter county goalkeepers imo are expected to save any straightforward shot from 21 yards out regardless of its pace. Takes an exceptional strike into the corner to beat any decent ic keeper from that distance.

Would reckon myself maybe 2/3ds success rate with the new penalties with a fair few being hit wide which tbh I can't recollect seeing in hurling in quiet a while.

Quote from: Canalman on January 09, 2015, 02:16:37 PM
All inter county goalkeepers imo are expected to save any straightforward shot from 21 yards out regardless of its pace. Takes an exceptional strike into the corner to beat any decent ic keeper from that distance.

Would reckon myself maybe 2/3ds success rate with the new penalties with a fair few being hit wide which tbh I can't recollect seeing in hurling in quiet a while.

Are you saying you'd stop them ?

At county level i.e the big 5/6 teams the success rate of goals would be 8 out of ten shots, at club level more that half would be scored

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2015, 04:52:21 PM

Quote from: Canalman on January 09, 2015, 02:16:37 PM
All inter county goalkeepers imo are expected to save any straightforward shot from 21 yards out regardless of its pace. Takes an exceptional strike into the corner to beat any decent ic keeper from that distance.

Would reckon myself maybe 2/3ds success rate with the new penalties with a fair few being hit wide which tbh I can't recollect seeing in hurling in quiet a while.

Are you saying you'd stop them ?

At county level i.e the big 5/6 teams the success rate of goals would be 8 out of ten shots, at club level more that half would be scored

Never said I would in fairness as I am not an ic goalkeeper.

We'll agree to disagree on our predictions so.

The 2 yellow cards but being replaced by sub proposal is unlikely to succeed going on the reaction sofar but most feel the rest of the suggestions are good. They trialled the one on one penalty with inter county players and 62% were scored so it won't be the guaranteed goal that some are suggesting. Fouling isn't supposed to pay so advantage should be with fouled team. The 5 second advantage rule was long overdue too as will give the advantage to the player in possession.
The next step I presume is getting congress approval. It's often baffled me why 66% approval was needed for decisions at congress. Is that still the case? Surely a simple majority should be enough..

The two yellow cards proposal is just bizarre and you'd have to wonder what they were thinking. It's overshadowing a lot of the other proposals and could mean some that might have passed won't. The advantage rule is a strange one insofar as in hurling 5 seconds can be a long time but it could improve the daft situation where a fouled player gets an advantage when the free would be the much better option for the fouled player. I don't think the penalty proposal will pass or should it. You can't read anything into the test they did as it's far too small a sample to tell us anything. I think it will make a penalty too certain a score and is thus to harsh a penalty to the defending team.

I really don't understand why the GAA don't trial certain proposals in both codes at lower levels, school, underage, club leagues etc. to see how they pan out away from the spotlight over a reasonable amount of time. It would at least allow congress some real facts before voting something in or out.

Quote from: Zulu on January 11, 2015, 04:19:22 PM
The two yellow cards proposal is just bizarre and you'd have to wonder what they were thinking. It's overshadowing a lot of the other proposals and could mean some that might have passed won't. The advantage rule is a strange one insofar as in hurling 5 seconds can be a long time but it could improve the daft situation where a fouled player gets an advantage when the free would be the much better option for the fouled player. I don't think the penalty proposal will pass or should it. You can't read anything into the test they did as it's far too small a sample to tell us anything. I think it will make a penalty too certain a score and is thus to harsh a penalty to the defending team.

I really don't understand why the GAA don't trial certain proposals in both codes at lower levels, school, underage, club leagues etc. to see how they pan out away from the spotlight over a reasonable amount of time. It would at least allow congress some real facts before voting something in or out.

They do experimental rules in the national league. That's well out of the spotlight.

Quote from: Zulu on January 11, 2015, 04:19:22 PM
The two yellow cards proposal is just bizarre and you'd have to wonder what they were thinking. It's overshadowing a lot of the other proposals and could mean some that might have passed won't. The advantage rule is a strange one insofar as in hurling 5 seconds can be a long time but it could improve the daft situation where a fouled player gets an advantage when the free would be the much better option for the fouled player. I don't think the penalty proposal will pass or should it. You can't read anything into the test they did as it's far too small a sample to tell us anything. I think it will make a penalty too certain a score and is thus to harsh a penalty to the defending team.

I really don't understand why the GAA don't trial certain proposals in both codes at lower levels, school, underage, club leagues etc. to see how they pan out away from the spotlight over a reasonable amount of time. It would at least allow congress some real facts before voting something in or out.

I think the 5 second advantage rule could be a good thing if worked properly. The ref will need to make it abundantly clear when the advantage is over and if nothing has accrued bring it back, a bit like in rugby, but in rugby the ref is more likely to be up close to the action than a hurling ref just due to the nature of the game, so the ref will need some shout on him or her!

I think I read somewhere that there were two penalties in the Walsh cup game Antrim played in and both were saved, I could stand corrected.
Maybe the keepers have a better chance than first thought especially if the penalty taker is a power man rather than placement.

What is the 5 second advantage rule?  :-[ about not knowing!

Quote from: johnneycool on January 12, 2015, 09:30:18 AM

Quote from: Zulu on January 11, 2015, 04:19:22 PM
The two yellow cards proposal is just bizarre and you'd have to wonder what they were thinking. It's overshadowing a lot of the other proposals and could mean some that might have passed won't. The advantage rule is a strange one insofar as in hurling 5 seconds can be a long time but it could improve the daft situation where a fouled player gets an advantage when the free would be the much better option for the fouled player. I don't think the penalty proposal will pass or should it. You can't read anything into the test they did as it's far too small a sample to tell us anything. I think it will make a penalty too certain a score and is thus to harsh a penalty to the defending team.

I really don't understand why the GAA don't trial certain proposals in both codes at lower levels, school, underage, club leagues etc. to see how they pan out away from the spotlight over a reasonable amount of time. It would at least allow congress some real facts before voting something in or out.

I think the 5 second advantage rule could be a good thing if worked properly. The ref will need to make it abundantly clear when the advantage is over and if nothing has accrued bring it back, a bit like in rugby, but in rugby the ref is more likely to be up close to the action than a hurling ref just due to the nature of the game, so the ref will need some shout on him or her!

I think I read somewhere that there were two penalties in the Walsh cup game Antrim played in and both were saved, I could stand corrected.
Maybe the keepers have a better chance than first thought especially if the penalty taker is a power man rather than placement.

I would think that given the  current  treacley pitch conditions that the option of blasting the ball low at penalties is a non runner so keepers can expect the penalties to be hit at above waist height.

Keeper has no distractions on the line with this rule, so to me favours tem more than the penalty taker. Two penalties were given in the Antrim/DIT game and both superbly saved. As they say in soccer they were the right height for the keeper.

You'd swear there was barely any hurling played outside of the top few counties.

I would have thought there'd be 2/3 pages on developing hurling in the Christy Ring Counties and then concrete proposals for Meagher and Rackard competitions and counties.
Pure Bull. This is where the real growth in club hurling can occur. Not in the established counties.

Not a mention of the Third Level Sector! This is a huge cause of burnout in young players.

They never met with any Cumann na mBunscol committee. Most of the competitions in schools are not run for participation. How does that tie in with the Go Games model???

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 12, 2015, 11:29:29 PM
You'd swear there was barely any hurling played outside of the top few counties.

I would have thought there'd be 2/3 pages on developing hurling in the Christy Ring Counties and then concrete proposals for Meagher and Rackard competitions and counties.
Pure Bull. This is where the real growth in club hurling can occur. Not in the established counties.

Not a mention of the Third Level Sector! This is a huge cause of burnout in young players.

They never met with any Cumann na mBunscol committee. Most of the competitions in schools are not run for participation. How does that tie in with the Go Games model???

When you consider the makeup of the committee (and most hurling review committees) are you surprised?

chairman Liam Sheedy (Tipperary),
committee members included; Ed Donnelly
(Secretary), Pat Henderson (Kilkenny), Des Cullinane
(Cork), Terence "Sambo" Mc Naughton (Antrim), Ollie
Moran (Limerick), Veronica Curtin (Galway), Frank
Lohan (Clare), Ollie Canning (Galway) and Paul Flynn
(Waterford). Michael Duignan (Offaly)

I'd image they'd a full 10 minutes discussing how to bring the likes of Carlow, Westmeath and Laois up another level, let alone the rest of us!

Oh wait, they reviewed the internal structures of the top 10 hurling and want to get some external consultancy to create a best practice document for the rest of us!

'We propose engaging with an external consultancy
organisation to examine the best practices of how
hurling is nurtured in the ten Liam MacCarthy
counties playing today. These best practices
should include (but not be limited to) - underage
participation, hurling activity at primary schools and
post primary schools, club / school links, coaching
strictures, development squads and part-time and
full-time coaching personnel.
The external consultancy organisation will be asked
to produce a best practice template to be used as a
blueprint to share with all counties which if followed
will help to build up hurling within each county from its
foundations, i.e. at underage level. As different counties
may be at different stages, the blueprint can be used
in different ways with funding and resources to be
allocated only to those who meet the agreed success
criteria.'

I suppose there's some merit in that, but it really would have been nice if they'd taken the time to speak to some mid to low tier hurling counties rather than spend all their time meeting with the 10 top counties.

What'll work in Tipp won't necessarily work in Carlow.

Quote from: johnneycool on January 13, 2015, 12:52:01 PM

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 12, 2015, 11:29:29 PM
You'd swear there was barely any hurling played outside of the top few counties.

I would have thought there'd be 2/3 pages on developing hurling in the Christy Ring Counties and then concrete proposals for Meagher and Rackard competitions and counties.
Pure Bull. This is where the real growth in club hurling can occur. Not in the established counties.

Not a mention of the Third Level Sector! This is a huge cause of burnout in young players.

They never met with any Cumann na mBunscol committee. Most of the competitions in schools are not run for participation. How does that tie in with the Go Games model???

When you consider the makeup of the committee (and most hurling review committees) are you surprised?

chairman Liam Sheedy (Tipperary),
committee members included; Ed Donnelly
(Secretary), Pat Henderson (Kilkenny), Des Cullinane
(Cork), Terence "Sambo" Mc Naughton (Antrim), Ollie
Moran (Limerick), Veronica Curtin (Galway), Frank
Lohan (Clare), Ollie Canning (Galway) and Paul Flynn
(Waterford). Michael Duignan (Offaly)

I'd image they'd a full 10 minutes discussing how to bring the likes of Carlow, Westmeath and Laois up another level, let alone the rest of us!

Oh wait, they reviewed the internal structures of the top 10 hurling and want to get some external consultancy to create a best practice document for the rest of us!

'We propose engaging with an external consultancy
organisation to examine the best practices of how
hurling is nurtured in the ten Liam MacCarthy
counties playing today. These best practices
should include (but not be limited to) - underage
participation, hurling activity at primary schools and
post primary schools, club / school links, coaching
strictures, development squads and part-time and
full-time coaching personnel.
The external consultancy organisation will be asked
to produce a best practice template to be used as a
blueprint to share with all counties which if followed
will help to build up hurling within each county from its
foundations, i.e. at underage level. As different counties
may be at different stages, the blueprint can be used
in different ways with funding and resources to be
allocated only to those who meet the agreed success
criteria.'

I suppose there's some merit in that, but it really would have been nice if they'd taken the time to speak to some mid to low tier hurling counties rather than spend all their time meeting with the 10 top counties.

What'll work in Tipp won't necessarily work in Carlow.

Very unfair on the committee. I'm sure they're all in favour of Carlow, Laois and Westmeath losing to the elite by narrower margins.

The problem is that a lot of the guys on the committee are not heavily working at grassroots, to the best of my knowledge. A lot of them have roughly the same sort of profile and just happen to be from different counties.

What was the selection criteria though, apart obviously from a spread of counties? There is one of them whose knowledge of the rules would be poor for example!