Any experts on here? Friend of mine was working for a company for 4 odd years, his attendance at start wasn't the worst but wasn't the best either, though in his work there are no clock in system and he was never pulled for it or got a warning for it either. Last 2 years it dramatically improved and all good. He recently went for another job, totally different discipline and got the job after 2 interviews/presentations. So he handed in his 4 week notice all good. Employers not that really bothered.
His new employers phoned him to say say that they won't be taking him on as a reference that they sent out had been filled in with both timekeeping and attendance filled as being poor, now he's no job!! If there are no records of poor attendance and bad timekeeping has he a case with the industrial tribunal on an employer filling in reference unfairly?
Was the reference actuate? That will be the question needs answered.
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 16, 2014, 04:51:18 PM
Was the reference actuate? That will be the question needs answered.
It was a tick box reference type thing, his boss has (with hindsight) regretted it but it's too late, even after phoning the company to explain that it was down to stupid things and would fill in another reference, the other company has taken the view of keeping with policy and not going take him. Couldn't make it up lol.
Quote from: hardstation on January 16, 2014, 05:42:33 PM
So, they gave him the job and then decided to look at his references??
Then they decided they didn't want him? WTF?
The new company are the cnuts, not the old one.
Yeah in fairness I thought the new company was harsh to, but I'm sure in all jobs they are based on whether the references are up to scratch.
Yeah but the offer should only be made once the references are in...
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 16, 2014, 05:58:27 PM
Yeah but the offer should only be made once the references are in...
Something fishy about it from the new employers, but if his company hasn't got records or handed out warnings for poor timekeeping/atendance surely after a contract has been retracted based on something that can't be backed up he'd have a case?
Na, I would say your right Milltown. There's no way they could take away the job offer based on something that there is no evidence. He should definitely be looking into it, sounds dodgy enough
To be honest his boss shouldn't have filled anything out and left it to HR. Most references are just to confirm you worked for the company from the dates specified as negative references leave you legally exposed; hence most HR departments have a policy in place.
His company is small enough with no HR team in place, mistake by former boss thinking he'd got job an all (which he had pending references) so never thought
Basically the guy giving the reference has a duty of care towards the new employer, i.e. the new employer could potentially sue the old employer for giving a false, or misleading, reference. As outlined above, the trend nowadays is to give a "tombstone" reference, where you do not mention anything at all about conduct/performance - irrespective of whether those aspects were good, bad or indifferent.
It is usually made clear in a letter of offer that a job offer only stands as long as satisfactory references are received. The best advice is - do not throw your resignation in, until you have a written date of commencement confirmed with a new employer, in other words that both you & they are satisfied that there is nothing impending that will hinder you taking up employment, particularly the references.
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 16, 2014, 07:49:54 PM
Basically the guy giving the reference has a duty of care towards the new employer, i.e. the new employer could potentially sue the old employer for giving a false, or misleading, reference. As outlined above, the trend nowadays is to give a "tombstone" reference, where you do not mention anything at all about conduct/performance - irrespective of whether those aspects were good, bad or indifferent.
It is usually made clear in a letter of offer that a job offer only stands as long as satisfactory references are received. The best advice is - do not throw your resignation in, until you have a written date of commencement confirmed with a new employer, in other words that both you & they are satisfied that there is nothing impending that will hinder you taking up employment, particularly the references.
I agree with all of that, but if the previous boss has no records/warnings or proof of bad attendance surely he leaves himself open ?
"An employer is under no legal duty to provide an employee or ex-employee with a reference. A derogatory reference may expose him to an action for defamation. This may be defended on the grounds that the statement made was true, or, if untrue, it was made on an occasion when the law confers qualified privilege, and the statement was made without malice, in the sense of an improper motive".
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 16, 2014, 08:20:38 PM
"An employer is under no legal duty to provide an employee or ex-employee with a reference. A derogatory reference may expose him to an action for defamation. This may be defended on the grounds that the statement made was true, or, if untrue, it was made on an occasion when the law confers qualified privilege, and the statement was made without malice, in the sense of an improper motive".
So if you were an employer in this occassion would you feel safe that nothing would come of it? I think it's been an unfortunate (costly for my mate) situation, I hope he gets a job soon as he's a bit shell shocked at the moment
Relatively. I wouldn't have thought that your mate will have the funds to go after him for defamation. What about a quiet word to see if old job is still "available"??
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 16, 2014, 08:32:53 PM
Relatively. I wouldn't have thought that your mate will have the funds to go after him for defamation. What about a quiet word to see if old job is still "available"??
They have already interviewed someone else and he starts in 2 weeks lol, if he's unemployed surely he'll get legal aid then? Bit of a mess in fairness.
As far as I'm aware, there's no legal aid for employment law matters.
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 16, 2014, 08:54:15 PM
As far as I'm aware, there's no legal aid for employment law matters.
Right, he'll be chuffed even more :o
Thanks for the info pwwf see you Monday?
Quote from: hardstation on January 16, 2014, 05:42:33 PM
So, they gave him the job and then decided to look at his references??
Then they decided they didn't want him? WTF?
The new company are the cnuts, not the old one.
That's the way most employment works, the onus is on you as an employee to give appropriate references, most companies will offer a job subject to references / right to work / security checks etc, if you accept and some of these don't pander out the company is well within it's rights to terminate the employment. If his reference has failed him the old company are the cnuts, if they had nothing good to say they shouldn't have said anything, sounds very spiteful to fill in poor attendance, I suspect it wasn't as rosy in the old company as made out.
We will only answer specific questions during a referral. No embelishment or offering of extra information, even if prompted. Wide open for defamation law suit here (I recognize that its 'merica where you can get sued for wearing Brut probably) - even if it is tightly documented. If it isn't documented and someone just said all this stuff I'd be looking for restituation from company A.
I'd feel like a tit however. Bottom line - burning bridges and f**king around in the work place is a bad bad bad idea. There's always someone keeping a note of it, even mentally.
Quote from: Puckoon on January 16, 2014, 09:07:23 PM
We will only answer specific questions during a referral. No embelishment or offering of extra information, even if prompted. Wide open for defamation law suit here (I recognize that its 'merica where you can get sued for wearing Brut probably) - even if it is tightly documented. If it isn't documented and someone just said all this stuff I'd be looking for restituation from company A.
I'd feel like a tit however. Bottom line - burning bridges and f**king around in the work place is a bad bad bad idea. There's always someone keeping a note of it, even mentally.
Like I said in first post, his timekeeping could have been a lot better, but last year and a half he was solid.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2014, 04:56:20 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 16, 2014, 04:51:18 PM
Was the reference actuate? That will be the question needs answered.
It was a tick box reference type thing, his boss has (with hindsight) regretted it but it's too late, even after phoning the company to explain that it was down to stupid things and would fill in another reference, the other company has taken the view of keeping with policy and not going take him. Couldn't make it up lol.
Would think the fact that his old boss rang to admit his reference wasn't accurate would further strengthen his case. New company well within their rights to withdraw the offer as most are subject to references which are the responsibility of the new employee to provide. Poor form by ur friend by not taking more care as to whom was providing the reference and what it may contain but sure hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Quote from: Corner Forward on January 16, 2014, 09:15:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2014, 04:56:20 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 16, 2014, 04:51:18 PM
Was the reference actuate? That will be the question needs answered.
It was a tick box reference type thing, his boss has (with hindsight) regretted it but it's too late, even after phoning the company to explain that it was down to stupid things and would fill in another reference, the other company has taken the view of keeping with policy and not going take him. Couldn't make it up lol.
Would think the fact that his old boss rang to admit his reference wasn't accurate would further strengthen his case. New company well within their rights to withdraw the offer as most are subject to references which are the responsibility of the new employee to provide. Poor form by ur friend by not taking more care as to whom was providing the reference and what it may contain but sure hindsight is a wonderful thing!
I think when a company is asking for references it could go to specific name or to the company. I'm not sure which he sent to. Hindsight would make us all richer I suppose
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2014, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 16, 2014, 09:07:23 PM
We will only answer specific questions during a referral. No embelishment or offering of extra information, even if prompted. Wide open for defamation law suit here (I recognize that its 'merica where you can get sued for wearing Brut probably) - even if it is tightly documented. If it isn't documented and someone just said all this stuff I'd be looking for restituation from company A.
I'd feel like a tit however. Bottom line - burning bridges and f**king around in the work place is a bad bad bad idea. There's always someone keeping a note of it, even mentally.
Like I said in first post, his timekeeping could have been a lot better, but last year and a half he was solid.
Not trying to be difficult -and I acknowledge what you said. Horse has bolted. Guy can try and close the gates as many different ways as possible. Small chance he can fix it now - but he's a lot better placed to be smarter and wiser moving forward. That seems to be the only silver lining I could imagine, but I may know nothing.
Quote from: Puckoon on January 16, 2014, 11:53:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2014, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 16, 2014, 09:07:23 PM
We will only answer specific questions during a referral. No embelishment or offering of extra information, even if prompted. Wide open for defamation law suit here (I recognize that its 'merica where you can get sued for wearing Brut probably) - even if it is tightly documented. If it isn't documented and someone just said all this stuff I'd be looking for restituation from company A.
I'd feel like a tit however. Bottom line - burning bridges and f**king around in the work place is a bad bad bad idea. There's always someone keeping a note of it, even mentally.
Like I said in first post, his timekeeping could have been a lot better, but last year and a half he was solid.
Not trying to be difficult -and I acknowledge what you said. Horse has bolted. Guy can try and close the gates as many different ways as possible. Small chance he can fix it now - but he's a lot better placed to be smarter and wiser moving forward. That seems to be the only silver lining I could imagine, but I may know nothing.
I know, it's a sobering day for him on Monday when he's no job to go to. A very costly tick or two on a reference. He'll be well wiser from this I'd say.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2014, 08:41:11 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 16, 2014, 08:32:53 PM
Relatively. I wouldn't have thought that your mate will have the funds to go after him for defamation. What about a quiet word to see if old job is still "available"??
They have already interviewed someone else and he starts in 2 weeks lol, if he's unemployed surely he'll get legal aid then? Bit of a mess in fairness.
He could try an employment tribunal but I doubt he would get anyway with that. Offers pending references are standard procedure. Don't see anything untoward regarding the new company. As long as they informed him that the offer was pending references (Which I'm sure they did), then they are well within they're rights to withdraw the offer on receipt of a bad reference.
His old boss is a c**t tho. I just don't understand why you would do that especially if he had given a solid 3 years withn no messing.
Quite a lot of reference forms would have questions such as:
'How many days over the past 2 years has the employee been Sick/AWOL/etc?'
'Has the employee received any disciplinary actions over the past 2 years? And if so for what?'
which require factual responses rather than opinions, precisely because there have been cases wwhere references were given which were opinion based and for which emploers were successfully sued. Generally employers are asked for these over a 2 year period which is possibly why your mate got nabbed.
There have also been cases were the new employer has successfully sued the old for giving an inaccurate reference to a person who turned out to be crap, obvviously the first company wanted to move them on.
Why would you hand in your notice without having a signed contract from your new employer?
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 17, 2014, 10:09:02 AM
Quite a lot of reference forms would have questions such as:
'How many days over the past 2 years has the employee been Sick/AWOL/etc?'
'Has the employee received any disciplinary actions over the past 2 years? And if so for what?'
which require factual responses rather than opinions, precisely because there have been cases wwhere references were given which were opinion based and for which emploers were successfully sued. Generally employers are asked for these over a 2 year period which is possibly why your mate got nabbed.
There have also been cases were the new employer has successfully sued the old for giving an inaccurate reference to a person who turned out to be crap, obvviously the first company wanted to move them on.
Small firm with no records kept, he's received no warnings or lost any pay due to being off, these were either sick days or holidays all within the allocation. No appraisals done to. I think he should just go and see someone with more experience and see what they say. No harm in that.
I've never taken any sick days in the past 10 odd years, being married means ya go to work otherwise she'll give me something to do, best motivation ever 8)
Quote from: StephenC on January 17, 2014, 10:37:37 AM
Why would you hand in your notice without having a signed contract from your new employer?
I know, hindsight is wonderful thing
His old boss needs a good slap for pulling a cheap, dirty stroke.
Taken at face value, I'm amazed at the way your friend has been snookered. I recall a man getting fired for bullying in the place I used to work. He had it coming to him after years of combustible behaviour, yet when talking to about it with a neighbour - I didn't give away any secrets, she had heard about it on the bush telegraph - she told me that companies need to be meticulous when it came to this kind of thing. You had to have accumulated three instances of it within six months. Anything older than that was scrubbed from your record. You would think that would apply in these circumstances. Can you really put down on a reference stuff that happened years ago and which you were never warned about? Shabby.
Quote from: orangeman on January 17, 2014, 11:03:08 AM
His old boss needs a good slap for pulling a cheap, dirty stroke.
Sorry, you've got this arse about face completely.
It wasn't a dirty, cheap stroke, it was an honest answer to a simple question.
I've filled out dozens of these things and the questions are pretty fair and straight.
If the man in question here was a Monday club regular, then why should his former employer suggest otherwise?
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:24:33 AM
I've filled out dozens of these things and the questions are pretty fair and straight.
If the man in question here was a Monday club regular, then why should his former employer suggest otherwise?
So if someone asked the question "Has this employee ever had any timekeeping issues?" you would answer "Yes" every time even though it hasn't been an issue for a number of years? Sure, you are answering the question that was asked, but have you never heard of nuance?
Quote from: deiseach on January 17, 2014, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:24:33 AM
I've filled out dozens of these things and the questions are pretty fair and straight.
If the man in question here was a Monday club regular, then why should his former employer suggest otherwise?
So if someone asked the question "Has this employee ever had any timekeeping issues?" you would answer "Yes" every time even though it hasn't been an issue for a number of years? Sure, you are answering the question that was asked, but have you never heard of nuance?
I've never seen a question as black and white as that regarding timekeeping. It wouldn't serve any purpose to ask it that way.
It's generally phrased as something like "rate absenteeism from 1-5" with a separate question for "rate timekeeping from 1-5".
If anyone I've managed has taken the piss with either, they won't be getting much better than a 1 or a 2. That, you see, is not actually my fault, but theirs.
Quote from: deiseach on January 17, 2014, 11:19:10 AM
Taken at face value, I'm amazed at the way your friend has been snookered. I recall a man getting fired for bullying in the place I used to work. He had it coming to him after years of combustible behaviour, yet when talking to about it with a neighbour - I didn't give away any secrets, she had heard about it on the bush telegraph - she told me that companies need to be meticulous when it came to this kind of thing. You had to have accumulated three instances of it within six months. Anything older than that was scrubbed from your record. You would think that would apply in these circumstances. Can you really put down on a reference stuff that happened years ago and which you were never warned about? Shabby.
He wouldn't mind but he's had no warnings in 4 1/2 years yes his time keeping by his own admission was poor at the start but he seems to think that the boss thought he'd the job anyways and filled it it without actually thinking he was going to do him any harm. As it happens it's the one piece of information that was the most important thing he'd to fill in ! Massive lesson for all involved here.
I know I was certainly unaware of it and I've had a few different jobs over the years, I was always lead to believe if you got interview and job the you were sorted.
Quote from: deiseach on January 17, 2014, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:24:33 AM
I've filled out dozens of these things and the questions are pretty fair and straight.
If the man in question here was a Monday club regular, then why should his former employer suggest otherwise?
So if someone asked the question "Has this employee ever had any timekeeping issues?" you would answer "Yes" every time even though it hasn't been an issue for a number of years? Sure, you are answering the question that was asked, but have you never heard of nuance?
Not a Monday club, as the initial post said he had timekeeping issues at the start but last year and a half he'd been grand, as said already no warnings issued, they have no paper work on him.
I work in training, teaching kids engineering, I've filled in hundreds of these things before and still do, I would never give a bad one, I've taken calls and written letters also. Some of the ex students you could just about stand but maybe in the time they had left they had changed young family or whatever, you wouldn't stop someone getting a job, would you?
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:39:47 AM
I've never seen a question as black and white as that regarding timekeeping. It wouldn't serve any purpose to ask it that way.
It's generally phrased as something like "rate absenteeism from 1-5" with a separate question for "rate timekeeping from 1-5".
If anyone I've managed has taken the piss with either, they won't be getting much better than a 1 or a 2. That, you see, is not actually my fault, but theirs.
So if someone takes the piss at some point, they'll never get better than a 2 no matter how hard they try in the future?
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: deiseach on January 17, 2014, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:39:47 AM
I've never seen a question as black and white as that regarding timekeeping. It wouldn't serve any purpose to ask it that way.
It's generally phrased as something like "rate absenteeism from 1-5" with a separate question for "rate timekeeping from 1-5".
If anyone I've managed has taken the piss with either, they won't be getting much better than a 1 or a 2. That, you see, is not actually my fault, but theirs.
So if someone takes the piss at some point, they'll never get better than a 2 no matter how hard they try in the future?
He was there for 4 and 1/2 years and took the piss for 3 of them, to be fair....
I'm not sure of the rate in fairness HS, I don't think he took over his allocated time for sick leave as he still got paid in full for whole time he was there. With no warnings. It's the not having paper work to back up a reference is the sticking point I think
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2014, 10:39:57 AM
Quote from: StephenC on January 17, 2014, 10:37:37 AM
Why would you hand in your notice without having a signed contract from your new employer?
I know, hindsight is wonderful thing
That's not hindsight it's just common sense.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2014, 11:40:08 AM
I know I was certainly unaware of it and I've had a few different jobs over the years, I was always lead to believe if you got interview and job the you were sorted.
Even with a signed contract, one can be on a probation period or awaiting security clearance, right to work clearance etc.
Quote
Not a Monday club, as the initial post said he had timekeeping issues at the start but last year and a half he'd been grand, as said already no warnings issued, they have no paper work on him.
I work in training, teaching kids engineering, I've filled in hundreds of these things before and still do, I would never give a bad one, I've taken calls and written letters also. Some of the ex students you could just about stand but maybe in the time they had left they had changed young family or whatever, you wouldn't stop someone getting a job, would you?
It's not about stopping someone getting a job Milltown. It's about being both honest and
reasonable in an assessment, otherwise there's absolutely no point in filling the form in.
You can't ask the subject themselves. I have friends who genuinely believe that that taking one sick day a month is no big deal; they almost see it as their entitlement, and they don't see any issue with behaviour. Employers actually do need other employers to make them aware of such people.
Deiseach, people can and do change. If the subject here had gone from 12 sick days per year to 6, I'd probably still give him a 1, or a 2 at best. If he'd gone from 8 down to a couple, it would be a 3 or a 4.
I'm not unreasonable!
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
Quote
Not a Monday club, as the initial post said he had timekeeping issues at the start but last year and a half he'd been grand, as said already no warnings issued, they have no paper work on him.
I work in training, teaching kids engineering, I've filled in hundreds of these things before and still do, I would never give a bad one, I've taken calls and written letters also. Some of the ex students you could just about stand but maybe in the time they had left they had changed young family or whatever, you wouldn't stop someone getting a job, would you?
It's not about stopping someone getting a job Milltown. It's about being both honest and reasonable in an assessment, otherwise there's absolutely no point in filling the form in.
You can't ask the subject themselves. I have friends who genuinely believe that that taking one sick day a month is no big deal; they almost see it as their entitlement, and they don't see any issue with behaviour. Employers actually do need other employers to make them aware of such people.
Deiseach, people can and do change. If the subject here had gone from 12 sick days per year to 6, I'd probably still give him a 1, or a 2 at best. If he'd gone from 8 down to a couple, it would be a 3 or a 4.
I'm not unreasonable!
I appreciate your candour. However, as you say yourself, you can't ask the subject themselves.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
Quote
Not a Monday club, as the initial post said he had timekeeping issues at the start but last year and a half he'd been grand, as said already no warnings issued, they have no paper work on him.
I work in training, teaching kids engineering, I've filled in hundreds of these things before and still do, I would never give a bad one, I've taken calls and written letters also. Some of the ex students you could just about stand but maybe in the time they had left they had changed young family or whatever, you wouldn't stop someone getting a job, would you?
It's not about stopping someone getting a job Milltown. It's about being both honest and reasonable in an assessment, otherwise there's absolutely no point in filling the form in.
You can't ask the subject themselves. I have friends who genuinely believe that that taking one sick day a month is no big deal; they almost see it as their entitlement, and they don't see any issue with behaviour. Employers actually do need other employers to make them aware of such people.
Deiseach, people can and do change. If the subject here had gone from 12 sick days per year to 6, I'd probably still give him a 1, or a 2 at best. If he'd gone from 8 down to a couple, it would be a 3 or a 4.
I'm not unreasonable!
But a lot of bosses chose when to be honest and when not to be in some cases, rules are bent a lot of time in business, all guilty of it
Yes HS when you take the time off you have to expect people to hold that in their heads. I know when I worked as an apprentice in the Yard the sick rate was terrible, ya couldn't lose your job there, I remember my last day and they give me my notice (300 left that day) they'd a chart showing my attendance over the past 2 years, I had to hide my head in shame. We all learn from experiences, hopefully he'll do same.
Playing cards with him tonight, I won't be taking it easy lol
Bigfella could give him a job, sounds like he'd fit in.
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 12:21:55 PM
Bigfella could give him a job, sounds like he'd fit in.
Accounts? better be shit with numbers tonight, though he might not way in lol
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 12:21:55 PM
Bigfella could give him a job, sounds like he'd fit in.
You really are obsessed.... In fairness he probably knows far more about the IT industry than you, as you consistently prove you know fcuk all. How is the helpdesk these days, getting many calls?
Get a room, you two.
Quote from: thebigfella on January 17, 2014, 12:43:54 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 12:21:55 PM
Bigfella could give him a job, sounds like he'd fit in.
You really are obsessed.... In fairness he probably knows far more about the IT industry than you, as you consistently prove you know fcuk all. How is the helpdesk these days, getting many calls?
I have forgot more kid, hows your ma getting on cleaning the wankstains off your spiderman duvet, still searching for the porn. ;) What's your employee count up to now, you and your hand. ;D
Quote from: deiseach on January 17, 2014, 12:52:17 PM
Get a room, you two.
Way OTT, I've had a few trolls on here but these two take the biscuit
Pair of sickening cnuts.
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 01:42:04 PM
To be fair to thebigfella, he never instigates these flare-ups.
Time they forgot about it though.
What's your job title Hardstation or yours Milltown and from this moment on I will belittle it repeatedly implying your career that you probably worked very hard to achieve is a joke. That what this ballbag has been doing to me, an apology from him and I'd leave it at that other than that he can go f**k.
Must. Resist. Posting. Eric. Cartman. Image.
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 02:17:45 PM
I never see him bringing it up though. It always starts with you talking about his "100000 employees" or whatever. Then he gives you a touch and it spirals from there, usually ending with you bringing up his ma, his duvet and wankstains.
FFS, forget about it.
Read up 7 posts, I'll not have a some p***k question my career which I have worked extremely hard for and try to belittle my job which he knows f**k all about, whilst making himself out to be the next Richard Branson! Would you forget about it if I constantly belittled yours?
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 02:17:45 PM
I never see him bringing it up though. It always starts with you talking about his "100000 employees" or whatever. Then he gives you a touch and it spirals from there, usually ending with you bringing up his ma, his duvet and wankstains.
FFS, forget about it.
Read up 7 posts, I'll not have a some p***k question my career which I have worked extremely hard for and try to belittle my job which he knows f**k all about, whilst making himself out to be the next Richard Branson! Would you forget about it if I constantly belittled yours?
Do you know him and does he know you?
Otherwise its just an anonymous load of shíte posted on here, hardly enough to get worked up over IMO.
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 02:17:45 PM
I never see him bringing it up though. It always starts with you talking about his "100000 employees" or whatever. Then he gives you a touch and it spirals from there, usually ending with you bringing up his ma, his duvet and wankstains.
FFS, forget about it.
Read up 7 posts, I'll not have a some p***k question my career which I have worked extremely hard for and try to belittle my job which he knows f**k all about, whilst making himself out to be the next Richard Branson! Would you forget about it if I constantly belittled yours?
Do you know him and does he know you?
Otherwise its just an anonymous load of shíte posted on here, hardly enough to get worked up over IMO.
I know he is full of shite.
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 02:17:45 PM
I never see him bringing it up though. It always starts with you talking about his "100000 employees" or whatever. Then he gives you a touch and it spirals from there, usually ending with you bringing up his ma, his duvet and wankstains.
FFS, forget about it.
Read up 7 posts, I'll not have a some p***k question my career which I have worked extremely hard for and try to belittle my job which he knows f**k all about, whilst making himself out to be the next Richard Branson! Would you forget about it if I constantly belittled yours?
Do you know him and does he know you?
Otherwise its just an anonymous load of shíte posted on here, hardly enough to get worked up over IMO.
I know he is full of shite.
So you don't know him, other than his anonymous persona and you got offended by it????
Your mate has no recourse under employment law so he can forget the tribunal route. This would be a civil case taking the previous employer for losses incurred for a defamatory or untrue statement. Tell him to request a coy of the reference in writing under a Subject Access Request which neither empower can refuse to supply and will cost him no more than £10 if anything at all. Then take it to a good solicitor who will advise on the merits of the case and the costs for him to bring it to Court.
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 02:17:45 PM
I never see him bringing it up though. It always starts with you talking about his "100000 employees" or whatever. Then he gives you a touch and it spirals from there, usually ending with you bringing up his ma, his duvet and wankstains.
FFS, forget about it.
Read up 7 posts, I'll not have a some p***k question my career which I have worked extremely hard for and try to belittle my job which he knows f**k all about, whilst making himself out to be the next Richard Branson! Would you forget about it if I constantly belittled yours?
Do you know him and does he know you?
Otherwise its just an anonymous load of shíte posted on here, hardly enough to get worked up over IMO.
I know he is full of shite.
How many posters have you waged war with on this Board up to now?
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2014, 04:10:35 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 02:17:45 PM
I never see him bringing it up though. It always starts with you talking about his "100000 employees" or whatever. Then he gives you a touch and it spirals from there, usually ending with you bringing up his ma, his duvet and wankstains.
FFS, forget about it.
Read up 7 posts, I'll not have a some p***k question my career which I have worked extremely hard for and try to belittle my job which he knows f**k all about, whilst making himself out to be the next Richard Branson! Would you forget about it if I constantly belittled yours?
Do you know him and does he know you?
Otherwise its just an anonymous load of shíte posted on here, hardly enough to get worked up over IMO.
I know he is full of shite.
So you don't know him, other than his anonymous persona and you got offended by it????
In the same way people are getting upset by my anonymous persona pointing out he's a ballbag you mean?
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 17, 2014, 08:21:32 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: Cold tea on January 17, 2014, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 02:17:45 PM
I never see him bringing it up though. It always starts with you talking about his "100000 employees" or whatever. Then he gives you a touch and it spirals from there, usually ending with you bringing up his ma, his duvet and wankstains.
FFS, forget about it.
Read up 7 posts, I'll not have a some p***k question my career which I have worked extremely hard for and try to belittle my job which he knows f**k all about, whilst making himself out to be the next Richard Branson! Would you forget about it if I constantly belittled yours?
Do you know him and does he know you?
Otherwise its just an anonymous load of shíte posted on here, hardly enough to get worked up over IMO.
I know he is full of shite.
How many posters have you waged war with on this Board up to now?
None but if you're a halfwit you shouldn't be putting comments on a public forum and not expect them to be commented on. ;)
Quote from: hardstation on January 17, 2014, 09:50:44 PM
You do seem to take some things on here very personally.
Ok, I can see why thebigfella's comments about your career piss you off (even though I still believe that you do instigate that spat) but some silly things like ONeill's aliases seem to drive you mad too. Why anyone would care about something like that is beyond me.
In saying that, a mod once sent me a pm telling me that I was on the verge of being banned for having more than one account so how they let ONeill away with it is baffling. Unless they are not ONeill's accounts or he is good at hiding it. Our mods couldn't be accused of bias.
Or maybe O'Neill is a mod. Or all of them.
It might have been him banned you that time.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2014, 12:13:13 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
Quote
Not a Monday club, as the initial post said he had timekeeping issues at the start but last year and a half he'd been grand, as said already no warnings issued, they have no paper work on him.
I work in training, teaching kids engineering, I've filled in hundreds of these things before and still do, I would never give a bad one, I've taken calls and written letters also. Some of the ex students you could just about stand but maybe in the time they had left they had changed young family or whatever, you wouldn't stop someone getting a job, would you?
It's not about stopping someone getting a job Milltown. It's about being both honest and reasonable in an assessment, otherwise there's absolutely no point in filling the form in.
You can't ask the subject themselves. I have friends who genuinely believe that that taking one sick day a month is no big deal; they almost see it as their entitlement, and they don't see any issue with behaviour. Employers actually do need other employers to make them aware of such people.
Deiseach, people can and do change. If the subject here had gone from 12 sick days per year to 6, I'd probably still give him a 1, or a 2 at best. If he'd gone from 8 down to a couple, it would be a 3 or a 4.
I'm not unreasonable!
But a lot of bosses chose when to be honest and when not to be in some cases, rules are bent a lot of time in business, all guilty of it
Yes HS when you take the time off you have to expect people to hold that in their heads. I know when I worked as an apprentice in the Yard the sick rate was terrible, ya couldn't lose your job there, I remember my last day and they give me my notice (300 left that day) they'd a chart showing my attendance over the past 2 years, I had to hide my head in shame. We all learn from experiences, hopefully he'll do same.
Playing cards with him tonight, I won't be taking it easy lol
See his attendance record last night, he had 3 sick days and 5 lates over the last year. Not brilliant but not poor
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2014, 01:37:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2014, 12:13:13 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
Quote
Not a Monday club, as the initial post said he had timekeeping issues at the start but last year and a half he'd been grand, as said already no warnings issued, they have no paper work on him.
I work in training, teaching kids engineering, I've filled in hundreds of these things before and still do, I would never give a bad one, I've taken calls and written letters also. Some of the ex students you could just about stand but maybe in the time they had left they had changed young family or whatever, you wouldn't stop someone getting a job, would you?
It's not about stopping someone getting a job Milltown. It's about being both honest and reasonable in an assessment, otherwise there's absolutely no point in filling the form in.
You can't ask the subject themselves. I have friends who genuinely believe that that taking one sick day a month is no big deal; they almost see it as their entitlement, and they don't see any issue with behaviour. Employers actually do need other employers to make them aware of such people.
Deiseach, people can and do change. If the subject here had gone from 12 sick days per year to 6, I'd probably still give him a 1, or a 2 at best. If he'd gone from 8 down to a couple, it would be a 3 or a 4.
I'm not unreasonable!
But a lot of bosses chose when to be honest and when not to be in some cases, rules are bent a lot of time in business, all guilty of it
Yes HS when you take the time off you have to expect people to hold that in their heads. I know when I worked as an apprentice in the Yard the sick rate was terrible, ya couldn't lose your job there, I remember my last day and they give me my notice (300 left that day) they'd a chart showing my attendance over the past 2 years, I had to hide my head in shame. We all learn from experiences, hopefully he'll do same.
Playing cards with him tonight, I won't be taking it easy lol
See his attendance record last night, he had 3 sick days and 5 lates over the last year. Not brilliant but not poor
Your mate really needs to focus on the most important thing, which is getting another job.
If he goes down the legal route, he might win a relatively small victory. But if the case is reported in the media he might show up in a Google search for every job he ever applies for again and he can't control how those articles might read. For example if the headline has the word 'poor attendance', even it isn't the case, it could really hurt his prospects in the future.
Like I said, especially if the old boss is remorseful and on board for the next reference, he should focus on getting a new job.
Aye, hes been at the agencies and think he's had some positive leads, your right about the being known for bad attendance, can't be positive either.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2014, 01:37:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2014, 12:13:13 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 17, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
Quote
Not a Monday club, as the initial post said he had timekeeping issues at the start but last year and a half he'd been grand, as said already no warnings issued, they have no paper work on him.
I work in training, teaching kids engineering, I've filled in hundreds of these things before and still do, I would never give a bad one, I've taken calls and written letters also. Some of the ex students you could just about stand but maybe in the time they had left they had changed young family or whatever, you wouldn't stop someone getting a job, would you?
It's not about stopping someone getting a job Milltown. It's about being both honest and reasonable in an assessment, otherwise there's absolutely no point in filling the form in.
You can't ask the subject themselves. I have friends who genuinely believe that that taking one sick day a month is no big deal; they almost see it as their entitlement, and they don't see any issue with behaviour. Employers actually do need other employers to make them aware of such people.
Deiseach, people can and do change. If the subject here had gone from 12 sick days per year to 6, I'd probably still give him a 1, or a 2 at best. If he'd gone from 8 down to a couple, it would be a 3 or a 4.
I'm not unreasonable!
But a lot of bosses chose when to be honest and when not to be in some cases, rules are bent a lot of time in business, all guilty of it
Yes HS when you take the time off you have to expect people to hold that in their heads. I know when I worked as an apprentice in the Yard the sick rate was terrible, ya couldn't lose your job there, I remember my last day and they give me my notice (300 left that day) they'd a chart showing my attendance over the past 2 years, I had to hide my head in shame. We all learn from experiences, hopefully he'll do same.
Playing cards with him tonight, I won't be taking it easy lol
See his attendance record last night, he had 3 sick days and 5 lates over the last year. Not brilliant but not poor
Sounds like an average week in the civil service. Maybe they would give him a job.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2014, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 16, 2014, 08:54:15 PM
As far as I'm aware, there's no legal aid for employment law matters.
Right, he'll be chuffed even more :o
Thanks for the info pwwf see you Monday?
Believe it or not, I was sitting on an Industrial Tribunal !!
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 21, 2014, 08:44:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2014, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 16, 2014, 08:54:15 PM
As far as I'm aware, there's no legal aid for employment law matters.
Right, he'll be chuffed even more :o
Thanks for the info pwwf see you Monday?
Believe it or not, I was sitting on an Industrial Tribunal !!
And how it go? ;D
You expect me to divulge that on here?
Aye right! I see now what you were referring to about Monday night - I wasn't invited, I've retired!
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 22, 2014, 07:49:03 PM
Aye right! I see now what you were referring to about Monday night - I wasn't invited, I've retired!
Some daft questions thrown out by the floor!!
Black card causing a bit of bother already then?
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on January 22, 2014, 08:47:55 PM
Black card causing a bit of bother already then?
Wee bit, some questions valid others were daft. Should be a head wrecker come start of the leagues, think I'll stick to the hurling games lol