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Just been reading gramham nortons bit about growing up a prod in cork. Not great it seems he felt lonely. This is very difficult to understand for me since I always found the cork people the friendliest people on the island. I think if I had to move I'd head to cork especially the west of the county where nortons from.
This makes me think what is it like for prods in the 26? Is there ill feeling? Are they isolated? Maybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen? Are we on this island so fukd up that this really matters almost 100years after independance?

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PM
Just been reading gramham norton bit about growing up a prod in cork. Not great it seems he felt lonely. This is very difficult to understand for me since I always found the cork people the friendliest people on the island. I think if I had to move I head to cork especially the west of the county where nortons from.
This makes me think what is it like for prods in the 26? Is there ill feeling? Are they isolated? Maybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen? Are we on this island so fukd up that this really matters almost 100years after independance?

You mean what passes for independence?

O

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 21, 2013, 06:25:18 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PM
Just been reading gramham norton bit about growing up a prod in cork. Not great it seems he felt lonely. This is very difficult to understand for me since I always found the cork people the friendliest people on the island. I think if I had to move I head to cork especially the west of the county where nortons from.
This makes me think what is it like for prods in the 26? Is there ill feeling? Are they isolated? Maybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen? Are we on this island so fukd up that this really matters almost 100years after independance?

You mean what passes for independence?

Lets not turn this into another sinn fein thread. I understand the prods have started a dating website so they can meet other prods this is very disappointing. Is it that bad?

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:39:56 PM
O

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 21, 2013, 06:25:18 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PM
Just been reading gramham norton bit about growing up a prod in cork. Not great it seems he felt lonely. This is very difficult to understand for me since I always found the cork people the friendliest people on the island. I think if I had to move I head to cork especially the west of the county where nortons from.
This makes me think what is it like for prods in the 26? Is there ill feeling? Are they isolated? Maybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen? Are we on this island so fukd up that this really matters almost 100years after independance?

You mean what passes for independence?

Lets not turn this into another sinn fein thread. I understand the prods have started a dating website so they can meet other prods this is very disappointing. Is it that bad?

Plenty of Prods?

Check out skinflick blog 'the irish of protestantness' good article

Quote from: BennyCake on December 21, 2013, 06:55:41 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:39:56 PM
O

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 21, 2013, 06:25:18 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PM
Just been reading gramham norton bit about growing up a prod in cork. Not great it seems he felt lonely. This is very difficult to understand for me since I always found the cork people the friendliest people on the island. I think if I had to move I head to cork especially the west of the county where nortons from.
This makes me think what is it like for prods in the 26? Is there ill feeling? Are they isolated? Maybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen? Are we on this island so fukd up that this really matters almost 100years after independance?

You mean what passes for independence?

Lets not turn this into another sinn fein thread. I understand the prods have started a dating website so they can meet other prods this is very disappointing. Is it that bad?

Plenty of Prods?

Two ways of looking at this
1. The catholics deliberatly isolate the prods and dont want anything to do with them
Or 2. The prods dont want any to do with their catholic neighbours and would rather look for a partner maybe hundreds of miles away and religion is the reason.

Either way its not good

Yeah he felt isolated because he was a prod!!!  :o

Any immigrant community determined not to marry the natives is trouble for society, be they Anglos, Pakistanis or Chinese.

Perhaps perception more than reality,and perception was a large part of the nationalist/catholic narrative in the North,although discrimination,gerrymandering and bigotry levels were significant

think this thread might have been relevant in the pre internet era myself. Most Catholics in the "south" these days give very little heed to being catholics themselves so are hardly going to get wound up  about whether the other fellas is a prod or something else. there's always the odd nut job of course

In 100 years white South Africans will feel the same way.

Quote from: anglocelt39 on December 21, 2013, 10:08:58 PM
think this thread might have been relevant in the pre internet era myself. Most Catholics in the "south" these days give very little heed to being catholics themselves so are hardly going to get wound up  about whether the other fellas is a prod or something else. there's always the odd nut job of course

I was at two funerals up your way in the recent past; one was in Bawnboy and the other in Carrigallen. One of the deceased was a Catholic and the other a prod.
But in both cases the neighbours put on a buffet in the local hall. Religion didn't come into it. Every single thing was donated and prepared by members of the local community.
The local priest turned up at the protestant funeral and the parson or whatever you call him, was at the catholic one.
There wasn't a hint of religious animosity as everyone closed ranks to pay their respects to the dead and to give support to their families.
I haven't come across the likes anywhere else but I do think religious barriers are breaking down everywhere across the country. I know there are elements in both communities who don't move with the spirit of the times but their numbers are decreasing.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 21, 2013, 07:47:18 PM
Any immigrant community determined not to marry the natives is trouble for society, be they Anglos, Pakistanis or Chinese.

They are not immigrant though !



 

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 22, 2013, 01:15:43 PM

Quote from: anglocelt39 on December 21, 2013, 10:08:58 PM
think this thread might have been relevant in the pre internet era myself. Most Catholics in the "south" these days give very little heed to being catholics themselves so are hardly going to get wound up  about whether the other fellas is a prod or something else. there's always the odd nut job of course

I was at two funerals up your way in the recent past; one was in Bawnboy and the other in Carrigallen. One of the deceased was a Catholic and the other a prod.
But in both cases the neighbours put on a buffet in the local hall. Religion didn't come into it. Every single thing was donated and prepared by members of the local community.
The local priest turned up at the protestant funeral and the parson or whatever you call him, was at the catholic one.
There wasn't a hint of religious animosity as everyone closed ranks to pay their respects to the dead and to give support to their families.
I haven't come across the likes anywhere else but I do think religious barriers are breaking down everywhere across the country. I know there are elements in both communities who don't move with the spirit of the times but their numbers are decreasing.

I think most of the animosity in the south went out two generations ago in the majority of cases. I know from speaking to my own protestant friends in cavan they would feel they have very little in common with the unionists in the North although they some would privately admit having a bit of gra for the royal family and british tradition. I think they would also see that due to the fact they are a small community they are likely to get smaller due to cross marriage. Interestingly I've seen families that were staunch on either side now watch their kids marry into the other side. I'm sure the 6 counties will follow suit in another 250 years

QuoteI'm sure the 6 counties will follow suit in another 250 years

In places like Cavan relations may never have been so bad as in places further North and in many cases extremist Orange families moved to the North. Probably things will improve, lets hope in less than 250 years, but some places have some way to do. Thirty years ago Rev Armstrong was run out of Limavady for crossing the street at Christmas and 25 years later the DUP opposed his being given the freedom of Limavady.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 22, 2013, 02:17:24 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 22, 2013, 01:15:43 PM

Quote from: anglocelt39 on December 21, 2013, 10:08:58 PM
think this thread might have been relevant in the pre internet era myself. Most Catholics in the "south" these days give very little heed to being catholics themselves so are hardly going to get wound up  about whether the other fellas is a prod or something else. there's always the odd nut job of course

I was at two funerals up your way in the recent past; one was in Bawnboy and the other in Carrigallen. One of the deceased was a Catholic and the other a prod.
But in both cases the neighbours put on a buffet in the local hall. Religion didn't come into it. Every single thing was donated and prepared by members of the local community.
The local priest turned up at the protestant funeral and the parson or whatever you call him, was at the catholic one.
There wasn't a hint of religious animosity as everyone closed ranks to pay their respects to the dead and to give support to their families.
I haven't come across the likes anywhere else but I do think religious barriers are breaking down everywhere across the country. I know there are elements in both communities who don't move with the spirit of the times but their numbers are decreasing.

I think most of the animosity in the south went out two generations ago in the majority of cases. I know from speaking to my own protestant friends in cavan they would feel they have very little in common with the unionists in the North although they some would privately admit having a bit of gra for the royal family and british tradition. I think they would also see that due to the fact they are a small community they are likely to get smaller due to cross marriage. Interestingly I've seen families that were staunch on either side now watch their kids marry into the other side. I'm sure the 6 counties will follow suit in another 250 years

Plenty of mixed marriages in the North, but in most cases it's just people getting married as religion does not come at the top of their list, good schools, education employment are usually the things in most peoples minds, religion is way down on most peoples views.

I'd love to know the figures on mixed marriages

So nothing about the polarised communities up here then MR?

Employment and Education on a level playing field, but the lack of integrated schooling mean continued polarisation between the two communities up here. Obviously the way a lot of the older generation (on both sides) and the catholic church want it, but long term in gets us nowhere.

Hard to see it dying out in short term,though again it is very much a class thing.Agree with Alex Kane that very few people up here hate each other, due to religious differences,but there is a lot of collective hurt in both communities and too many in each community genuinely believe themselves to be downtrodden while "themmuns" (ie the other side) get everything.

Quote from: theskull1 on December 22, 2013, 08:16:31 PM
So nothing about the polarised communities up here then MR?

Employment and Education on a level playing field, but the lack of integrated schooling mean continued polarisation between the two communities up here. Obviously the way a lot of the older generation (on both sides) and the catholic church want it, but long term in gets us nowhere.

In fairness the thread was addressed to 26 counties and while there is merit in the view taken about the possibly differing positions taken in the South it hardly needs a PHD in much to come to the conclusion that the divisions in the north will take longer to mend,

Its a fair guess given the experiences in the south that it'll be 4+ generations before normalisation occurs up here.

Happy for the thread to go back on topic

Quote from: theskull1 on December 22, 2013, 11:48:12 PM
Its a fair guess given the experiences in the south that it'll be 4+ generations before normalisation occurs up here.

Happy for the thread to go back on topic

Religious extermists are apparently in the minority in daily life but they (specifically dinosaurs in the DUP) hold a disproportionate level of control over society. People are voting Poots etc. into power so maybe it is people likeus on the end of the bell curve!  :-\

Quote from: theskull1 on December 22, 2013, 08:16:31 PM
So nothing about the polarised communities up here then MR?

Employment and Education on a level playing field, but the lack of integrated schooling mean continued polarisation between the two communities up here. Obviously the way a lot of the older generation (on both sides) and the catholic church want it, but long term in gets us nowhere.
[/quote

You're right, there are polarised communities here,  I'm only speaking for myself I suppose, I've like minded friends who are of the same view as myself on these matters, maybe it is a very small minority.

My kids won't be brought up in that environment and haven't been exposed to it either. While we have tribal political parties then we will continue to have division

QuoteWhile we have tribal political parties then we will continue to have division

Isn't that the wrong way around?

While we have Northern Ireland we will continue to have division.

Fromcurting a southern girl we have had this chat about the differences in the north and she couldn't figure out why it was along religous lines. she had protestants in her class at scholl and there was never any bother and the only thing we could think was thaat her protestants were irish protestants while mine weren't.  would protestants in the north have much in common with their southern counterparts other than religion?

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:27:01 AM

QuoteWhile we have tribal political parties then we will continue to have division

Isn't that the wrong way around?

While we have Northern Ireland we will continue to have division.

Northern Ireland is a symptom of the problem, not a cause. There was division in Ireland before partition and if NI was dissolved tomorrow, you'd still have division.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:27:01 AM

QuoteWhile we have tribal political parties then we will continue to have division

Isn't that the wrong way around?

While we have Northern Ireland we will continue to have division.

Do we not have tribal politics? Prods vote for unionist parties catholics vote for national/republican parties or have I missed something?

So your train of thought is simple, no Northern Ireland no problems with our unionist friends, why wouldn't unionist take up the fight for freedom if this comes about, throwing it all back to square one

Has anyone in the North, catholic or protestant, got an awful lot in common with anyone in the South culturally (apart from GAA and Orange Order and increasingly commonly shared English and USA Culture) regardless of religion,  100 years after partition? I personally don't think so sadly, crossing the border, either way, really is like entering an entirely different country.

By the way , in recent years, I have been involved in projects/groups which have entailed exchange visits and twinning with towns across the border, and on one occasion ,witnessed a DUP Mayor happily welcoming Mayo people at a function up here, as gaelige (away from the cameras of course!)

Quote from: T Fearon on December 23, 2013, 10:57:27 AM
Has anyone in the North, catholic or protestant, got an awful lot in common with anyone in the South culturally (apart from GAA and Orange Order and increasingly commonly shared English and USA Culture) regardless of religion,  100 years after partition? I personally don't think so sadly, crossing the border, either way, really is like entering an entirely different country.

By the way , in recent years, I have been involved in projects/groups which have entailed exchange visits and twinning with towns across the border, and on one occasion ,witnessed a DUP Mayor happily welcoming Mayo people at a function up here, as gaelige (away from the cameras of course!)

Yeah they all support the same soccer teams ;)

QuoteSo your train of thought is simple

Clarity is often simple. If there is no Northern Ireland then there is no need to vote for parties to abolish it and other issues would come to the fore.

Quotewhy wouldn't unionist take up the fight for freedom if this comes about,

Why should they? They would be living in a normal democratic country the same as everywhere else, without injustice to warrant "fighting". One of the most disgusting aspects of the sick counties is this pseudo equivalence between the cause of one side and the other.

QuoteHas anyone in the North, catholic or protestant, got an awful lot in common with anyone in the South culturally

I don't see the people in Cullaville are much different from those in 'Blayney.

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PMIs there ill feeling?

A little bit.

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PMAre they isolated?

A little bit.

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PMMaybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen?

A little bit.

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PMAre we on this island so fukd up that this really matters almost 100years after independance?

A little bit.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 11:06:18 AM

QuoteSo your train of thought is simple

Clarity is often simple. If there is no Northern Ireland then there is no need to vote for parties to abolish it and other issues would come to the fore.

Quotewhy wouldn't unionist take up the fight for freedom if this comes about,

Why should they? They would be living in a normal democratic country the same as everywhere else, without injustice to warrant "fighting". One of the most disgusting aspects of the sick counties is this pseudo equivalence between the cause of one side and the other.

QuoteHas anyone in the North, catholic or protestant, got an awful lot in common with anyone in the South culturally

I don't see the people in Cullaville are much different from those in 'Blayney.

So you won't see that problem arising? We have been living in a normal democratic country for a while, we still have bombers and shooters

QuoteQuote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PM

    Maybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen?


A little bit.

Protestants in the 26 counties are a diverse lot, some as Anglo as some of the posters here, others would see no more connection with England than than rest of us.

Quote
So you won't see that problem arising? We have been living in a normal democratic country for a while, we still have bombers and shooters

Only a very particular and perverse definition would regard the 6 counties as a normal democratic society and it is clearly not a country. However, despite the fact that it remains a colony, the mitigating arrangements in place have greatly reduced the bombing and shooting from the Nationalist side.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 11:06:18 AM
Why should they? They would be living in a normal democratic country the same as everywhere else, without injustice to warrant "fighting". One of the most disgusting aspects of the sick counties is this pseudo equivalence between the cause of one side and the other.

You're right about the false equivalence. As Joe Lee has pointed out, the greatest betrayal in the history of Irish politics was the abandoning of the Protestants of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan to the state that Unionism hysterically insisted was a death sentence for all Protestants. I wonder how many of them signed the Covenant only to find the principle of Protestant liberty sacrificed on the need to create a herrenvolk democracy. I was fascinated to find out around the time of the documentary Seven Ages that one of the principal contributors, RB McDowell, firmly believed that there was no such thing as an Irish identity independent of British identity. If you think about it too hard, it's an astonishingly insulting position to take. Yet not only was McDowell tolerated, he prospered in the land to which he felt no affinity. It should be a source of some pride to all Nationalists that there is no trace of an irridentist movement south of the border.

However, I think that it is a bit too simplistic to say Unionists would meekly accept the absence of Northern Ireland. Putting aside the fact that the rhetoric that led to the creation of Northern Ireland still lingers, why would a people who view themselves as British (perfectly reasonably, despite what Ali G might say) stop viewing themselves as British? It's not just because of the injustices of the statelet that hundreds of thousands of people north of the border refused to give it their allegiance. It's not hard to imagine a situation where Irish Catholics could be accepted as part of the polity, and accept its legitimacy. You only have to look at the island of Britain to see that. It is very hard though to see how a people who have a tradition and an infrastructure to cling on to could be integrated so easily.

Quotewhy would a people who view themselves as British (perfectly reasonably, despite what Ali G might say) stop viewing themselves as British

I'm not sure about the reasonable bit, but the issue is not what you regard yourself as, but whether you accept that you have chosen to live in Ireland and not there and that has implications for your conduct.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 11:33:12 AM

Quotewhy would a people who view themselves as British (perfectly reasonably, despite what Ali G might say) stop viewing themselves as British

I'm not sure about the reasonable bit, but the issue is not what you regard yourself as, but whether you accept that you have chosen to live in Ireland and not there and that has implications for your conduct.

Well, it is reasonable. Think of it this way. Imagine you were put up for adoption at birth and were raised by a family of Bible-bashing Presbyterians. There's no way you'd view yourself as anything other than British.

*awaits revelation that armaghniac was raised by a family of Bible-bashing Presbyterians* :D

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 11:27:57 AM

QuoteQuote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PM

    Maybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen?


A little bit.

Protestants in the 26 counties are a diverse lot, some as Anglo as some of the posters here, others would see no more connection with England than than rest of us.

Quote
So you won't see that problem arising? We have been living in a normal democratic country for a while, we still have bombers and shooters

Only a very particular and perverse definition would regard the 6 counties as a normal democratic society and it is clearly not a country. However, despite the fact that it remains a colony, the mitigating arrangements in place have greatly reduced the bombing and shooting from the Nationalist side.

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 


Look it is what it is, you've by living in it and accepted what it is, country, colony, occupied six or otherwise you'd have left long ago.

While reduced there is still people getting blown up, shot, killed in a 'war' for freedom. Do you not think this would be replicated if people who have lived in a country (in their eyes) had it taken away from them? you'd be very foolish to think there won't be elements within that community who'll not take up arms.

deiseach it's called an accident of birth, had he been born elsewhere he'd have a different view

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 11:42:21 AM
deiseach it's called an accident of birth, had he been born elsewhere he'd have a different view

Yep. We'll be able to ask the original questions of my son as soon as he is old enough to think for himself. I might not like what I hear :o

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 11:44:34 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 11:42:21 AM
deiseach it's called an accident of birth, had he been born elsewhere he'd have a different view

Yep. We'll be able to ask the original questions of my son as soon as he is old enough to think for himself. I might not like what I hear :o

My girls aren't christened so won't know what they are, they should be able to make decisions based on their own views and how they see it without being brainwashed into it by parents who'll push their own ideals on them

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 11:53:28 AM
My girls aren't christened so won't know what they are, they should be able to make decisions based on their own views and how they see it without being brainwashed into it by parents who'll push their own ideals on them

Whether they're raised in a faith or not, will they still not receive their 'ideals' from their parents?

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 11:56:55 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 11:53:28 AM
My girls aren't christened so won't know what they are, they should be able to make decisions based on their own views and how they see it without being brainwashed into it by parents who'll push their own ideals on them

Whether they're raised in a faith or not, will they still not receive their 'ideals' from their parents?

Ya think? If kids have been brought up during shootings, bombings, or their family was involved and interned be very difficult to not either to not have a strong view on it or be involved, as was the case for a lot of families growing up in West Belfast during the 70's

It was romanticised in songs, films and stories in all households, we'd have listend and for a small period of my life I'd have took it all in, that was before I was able to get a better grasp on things and view it differently, thes were ideals, granted not all parents would have

QuoteLook it is what it is, you've by living in it and accepted what it is, country, colony, occupied six or otherwise you'd have left long ago.

So you cannot propose change in NI, if you don't like you should just leave? That sounds familiar.

QuoteDo you not think this would be replicated if people who have lived in a country (in their eyes) had it taken away from them? you'd be very foolish to think there won't be elements within that community who'll not take up arms.

There are always evil people, but they are more likely to do this if people pander to their supposed "cause".

prods in the 26 lads this is turning nordie as I knew it would

Quoteprods in the 26 lads this is turning nordie as I knew it would

Some of us don't believe in partition of threads  ::)

But if you really want, Bono is a pain sometimes, but Katie Taylor seems a dacent woman, although you wouldn't want to pick a fight with her.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 12:09:19 PM
Ya think? If kids have been brought up during shootings, bombings, or their family was involved and interned be very difficult to not either to not have a strong view on it or be involved, as was the case for a lot of families growing up in West Belfast during the 70's

It was romanticised in songs, films and stories in all households, we'd have listend and for a small period of my life I'd have took it all in, that was before I was able to get a better grasp on things and view it differently, thes were ideals, granted not all parents would have

Yes, I think. Who has more influence on your formative years than your parents? NB ideals ≠ ideal.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:20:05 PM
But if you really want, Bono is a pain sometimes, but Katie Taylor seems a dacent woman, although you wouldn't want to pick a fight with her.

Thank you, Jack Boothman. We couldn't have whatabouteried with the OWCer's for all those years without you.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:11:20 PM

QuoteLook it is what it is, you've by living in it and accepted what it is, country, colony, occupied six or otherwise you'd have left long ago.

So you cannot propose change in NI, if you don't like you should just leave? That sounds familiar.


There are always evil people, but they are more likely to do this if people pander to their supposed "cause".

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 11:33:12 AM

Quotewhy would a people who view themselves as British (perfectly reasonably, despite what Ali G might say) stop viewing themselves as British

I'm not sure about the reasonable bit, but the issue is not what you regard yourself as, but whether you accept that you have chosen to live in Ireland and not there and that has implications for your conduct.

Do these 2 quotes not contradict to an extent?
It appears that on one hand you are arguing that you should be allowed to be Irish in NI but on the other hand when it comes to a United Ireland that Unionists should just put up with having their identity taken?

I been doing a little digging around.. I hearing of a prod farmer from south monaghan. he spent his whole life in the company of his catholic neighbours played football went to dances, discos and courted plenty of  catholic girls until it came to marrying.. yeah when it came to actually putting on the ring his got himself a nice proddy girl from north Armagh. his mates (catholics) didn't even know he was going with her.. nor were they at his wedding.. when he had kids and they reached school age they attended the local school (catholic) but only for a year until they went to a prod school 18 miles away.

what I'm taking from this example is that there has been a process of "radicalisation" a word mostly used to in reference to muslin extremism. the man was happy to mix freely with his friends a neighbours until he landed a bitter nordie. I also heard of a church (prod) next door to a guy I know very well its a little run down when I asked about it he tells me that he wouldnt know the name of one person who attends it and yet he knows them to see. its seem like these prods are very isolated from their catholic neighbours to the extent that they don't even speak.

this doesn't bode well for the idea that in a "united" Ireland that things would change. we would not be 'on the one road singing the one song'  we'd still be a divided society destroyed by religious prejudice.

QuoteIt appears that on one hand you are arguing that you should be allowed to be Irish in NI but on the other hand when it comes to a United Ireland that Unionists should just put up with having their identity taken?

Being Irish in Ireland is wishing to be part of the community, being British in Ireland is divorcing yourself from the community with all of the problems that causes. I am not being perfectly logical here, I also expect the Irish in Britain to be responsible members of British society even if they wish to retain an affinity to Ireland. Do you think the Irish in Britain should march up and down seeking the tricolour on their city hall?

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:48:47 PM

QuoteIt appears that on one hand you are arguing that you should be allowed to be Irish in NI but on the other hand when it comes to a United Ireland that Unionists should just put up with having their identity taken?

Being Irish in Ireland is wishing to be part of the community, being British in Ireland is divorcing yourself from the community with all of the problems that causes. I am not being perfectly logical here, I also expect the Irish in Britain to be responsible members of British society even if they wish to retain an affinity to Ireland. Do you think the Irish in Britain should march up and down seeking the tricolour on their city hall?

very good point

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
I been doing a little digging around..

Very little. The Waterford civic carol service took place yesterday with all the great and the good of the city in attendance. It took place in the Protestant cathedral, as it does every year. I know most of the regular attendees and they are, despite sending their children to the local CofI school (smaller numbers generally means a better education) and marrying other Protestants (higher chance of that as they move in the same circles, and that's even before you consider the baleful influence of Ne Temere), well integrated into Irish society. Your suggestion that there is some manner of Proddy fifth column developing south of the border is wrong.

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
I been doing a little digging around..

Very little. The Waterford civic carol service took place yesterday with all the great and the good of the city in attendance. It took place in the Protestant cathedral, as it does every year. I know most of the regular attendees and they are, despite sending their children to the local CofI school (smaller numbers generally means a better education) and marrying other Protestants (higher chance of that as they move in the same circles, and that's even before you consider the baleful influence of Ne Temere), well integrated into Irish society. Your suggestion that there is some manner of Proddy fifth column developing south of the border is wrong.

don't think I mentioned 5th column. I merely pointed to an example of how a man in his forties was influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 01:02:11 PM

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
I been doing a little digging around..

Very little. The Waterford civic carol service took place yesterday with all the great and the good of the city in attendance. It took place in the Protestant cathedral, as it does every year. I know most of the regular attendees and they are, despite sending their children to the local CofI school (smaller numbers generally means a better education) and marrying other Protestants (higher chance of that as they move in the same circles, and that's even before you consider the baleful influence of Ne Temere), well integrated into Irish society. Your suggestion that there is some manner of Proddy fifth column developing south of the border is wrong.

don't think I mentioned 5th column. I merely pointed to an example of how a man in his forties was influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)

You said 'radicalization' in the context of Muslim extremism. In the context of Protestant south of the border, this is wrong.

QuoteI merely pointed to an example of how a man in his forties was influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner

Many's a good man driven off course by a wife......

No matter, his children will probably behave as their Dad did in his youth and will not bother sending to Portadown for a spouse.

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 01:06:50 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 01:02:11 PM

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
I been doing a little digging around..

Very little. The Waterford civic carol service took place yesterday with all the great and the good of the city in attendance. It took place in the Protestant cathedral, as it does every year. I know most of the regular attendees and they are, despite sending their children to the local CofI school (smaller numbers generally means a better education) and marrying other Protestants (higher chance of that as they move in the same circles, and that's even before you consider the baleful influence of Ne Temere), well integrated into Irish society. Your suggestion that there is some manner of Proddy fifth column developing south of the border is wrong.

don't think I mentioned 5th column. I merely pointed to an example of how a man in his forties was influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)

You said 'radicalization' in the context of Muslim extremism. In the context of Protestant south of the border, this is wrong.

without getting into the minutia of either of our examples.. mine- I don't know the man nor would I like to reveal his id and yours- you refer to prods and catholics attending a carol service as "prods" and "catholics"
perhaps 'if' as it has been said before many times in different threads there was no religious affinity in Irish schools then the divisions we both refer to would be less of a problem. I'm not saying remove religion as a subject but certainly as a badge defining the type of school ethos.

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 01:02:11 PM

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
I been doing a little digging around..

Very little. The Waterford civic carol service took place yesterday with all the great and the good of the city in attendance. It took place in the Protestant cathedral, as it does every year. I know most of the regular attendees and they are, despite sending their children to the local CofI school (smaller numbers generally means a better education) and marrying other Protestants (higher chance of that as they move in the same circles, and that's even before you consider the baleful influence of Ne Temere), well integrated into Irish society. Your suggestion that there is some manner of Proddy fifth column developing south of the border is wrong.

don't think I mentioned 5th column. I merely pointed to an example of how a man in his forties was influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)

Are you "influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)" ?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 01:49:14 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 01:02:11 PM

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
I been doing a little digging around..

Very little. The Waterford civic carol service took place yesterday with all the great and the good of the city in attendance. It took place in the Protestant cathedral, as it does every year. I know most of the regular attendees and they are, despite sending their children to the local CofI school (smaller numbers generally means a better education) and marrying other Protestants (higher chance of that as they move in the same circles, and that's even before you consider the baleful influence of Ne Temere), well integrated into Irish society. Your suggestion that there is some manner of Proddy fifth column developing south of the border is wrong.

don't think I mentioned 5th column. I merely pointed to an example of how a man in his forties was influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)

Are you "influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)" ?

am 'I' the subject of this thread. I began by speaking about graham norton's perceived feeling of isolation as a prod growing up in west cork. I myself am not religious at all. I believe a man/woman's "worth" bears a close relationship to his or her willingness/ability to pay you money your owed.

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 01:56:30 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 01:49:14 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 01:02:11 PM

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
I been doing a little digging around..

Very little. The Waterford civic carol service took place yesterday with all the great and the good of the city in attendance. It took place in the Protestant cathedral, as it does every year. I know most of the regular attendees and they are, despite sending their children to the local CofI school (smaller numbers generally means a better education) and marrying other Protestants (higher chance of that as they move in the same circles, and that's even before you consider the baleful influence of Ne Temere), well integrated into Irish society. Your suggestion that there is some manner of Proddy fifth column developing south of the border is wrong.

don't think I mentioned 5th column. I merely pointed to an example of how a man in his forties was influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)

Are you "influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)" ?

am 'I' the subject of this thread. I began by speaking about graham norton's perceived feeling of isolation as a prod growing up in west cork. I myself am not religious at all. I believe a man/woman's "worth" bears a close relationship to his or her willingness/ability to pay you money your owed.

So did you marry someone within your families religion? did that have a bearing on picking your wife?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 01:58:38 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 01:56:30 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 01:49:14 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 01:02:11 PM

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
I been doing a little digging around..

Very little. The Waterford civic carol service took place yesterday with all the great and the good of the city in attendance. It took place in the Protestant cathedral, as it does every year. I know most of the regular attendees and they are, despite sending their children to the local CofI school (smaller numbers generally means a better education) and marrying other Protestants (higher chance of that as they move in the same circles, and that's even before you consider the baleful influence of Ne Temere), well integrated into Irish society. Your suggestion that there is some manner of Proddy fifth column developing south of the border is wrong.

don't think I mentioned 5th column. I merely pointed to an example of how a man in his forties was influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)

Are you "influenced by his.. lets say more "religiously aware" choice of partner (or partner chosen for him)" ?

am 'I' the subject of this thread. I began by speaking about graham norton's perceived feeling of isolation as a prod growing up in west cork. I myself am not religious at all. I believe a man/woman's "worth" bears a close relationship to his or her willingness/ability to pay you money your owed.

So did you marry someone within your families religion? did that have a bearing on picking your wife?

no it was a mixture of alcohol,hormones and also timing.. it was time to get married. (and love of course just in case your reading honey)

You asked a series of questions pertaining to Protestants south of the border. I would have assumed you wanted some insight from someone who might have some experience of Protestants south of the border. Yet now you don't want to get "into the minutia [sic] of either of our examples". What was that all about?

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 02:09:55 PM
You asked a series of questions pertaining to Protestants south of the border. I would have assumed you wanted some insight from someone who might have some experience of Protestants south of the border. Yet now you don't want to get "into the minutia [sic] of either of our examples". What was that all about?

so your 'insight' to 'prods in the 26' is Christians singing carols together in Waterford a couple of days before thee "Christian's" birthday? yeah.. that graham Norton hasn't a notion what he's talking about there's no problem ding dong Merrily in waterford

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 02:18:24 PM
so your 'insight' to 'prods in the 26' is Christians singing carols together in Waterford a couple of days before thee "Christian's" birthday? yeah.. that graham Norton hasn't a notion what he's talking about there's no problem ding dong Merrily in waterford

I go to service every week with my wife and intend to raise my son in the Church of Ireland. I don't know why I'm bothering sharing that with you though because, like all good Shinners drones, when the facts change you ignore the facts.

Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:48:47 PM

QuoteIt appears that on one hand you are arguing that you should be allowed to be Irish in NI but on the other hand when it comes to a United Ireland that Unionists should just put up with having their identity taken?

Being Irish in Ireland is wishing to be part of the community, being British in Ireland is divorcing yourself from the community with all of the problems that causes. I am not being perfectly logical here, I also expect the Irish in Britain to be responsible members of British society even if they wish to retain an affinity to Ireland. Do you think the Irish in Britain should march up and down seeking the tricolour on their city hall?

How does being British in Ireland divorce yourself from the community.  Is this just because they don't go to the catholic church, play gaelic games etc?

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

'Irishness' has nothing whatsoever to do with whether one enjoys gaelic games or not. Prods in the north are more into rugby and football, which entitles them to be considered at least as Irish as BOD or Robbie Keane, I would've thought. There are also many northern nationalists, particularly in urban areas, who would draw their curtains if an All Ireland final was being played in their back garden. Does that make them less Irish than GAA types?

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

I'm not actually  ;) I'm referring to the sons ( and daughters) of Protestant parents a number of whom i know are involved in Gaelic games.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2013, 02:46:15 PM

QuoteI'm sure the 6 counties will follow suit in another 250 years

In places like Cavan relations may never have been so bad as in places further North and in many cases extremist Orange families moved to the North. Probably things will improve, lets hope in less than 250 years, but some places have some way to do. Thirty years ago Rev Armstrong was run out of Limavady for crossing the street at Christmas and 25 years later the DUP opposed his being given the freedom of Limavady.

My finishing comment was clearly tongue in cheek. Relations were bad enough a long time ago but fortunately the protestants in the South were not subjected to the fear mongering of Mr Paisley and his chums.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 07:17:21 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

'Irishness' has nothing whatsoever to do with whether one enjoys gaelic games or not. Prods in the north are more into rugby and football, which entitles them to be considered at least as Irish as BOD or Robbie Keane, I would've thought. There are also many northern nationalists, particularly in urban areas, who would draw their curtains if an All Ireland final was being played in their back garden. Does that make them less Irish than GAA types?

Why would northern Protestants want to be considered as Irish as Robbie Keane? They don't consider themselves in any way Irish.

And Irish or Irishness hasn't been mentioned. Not by me anyway.

QuoteRelations were bad enough a long time ago but fortunately the protestants in the South were not subjected to the fear mongering of Mr Paisley and his chums.

The eminent Dr Paisley has 3 congregations in the 26 counties, one wonders if he was preaching "Love thy neighbour" or "turn the other cheek".

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

Your point being? 

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 07:22:18 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

I'm not actually  ;) I'm referring to the sons ( and daughters) of Protestant parents a number of whom i know are involved in Gaelic games.

I like the way you can draw conclusions about their nationality / identity?  So if they are involved in Gaelic Games, there is no way that they can have a British identity  or affinity for Britain?

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 08:29:07 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

Your point being?

Er, the above post.

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 08:29:07 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

Your point being?

Er, the above post.

So, unlike the previous poster to which I was replying in relation to the number protestants who play GAA, you were agreeing with me?

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 08:50:38 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 08:29:07 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

Your point being?

Er, the above post.

So, unlike the previous poster to which I was replying in relation to the number protestants who play GAA, you were agreeing with me?

I don't know the exact figures involved. But my point was that the vast majority wouldnt want to play GAA no matter what is done to "accommodate" them. The flag/anthem/Irish language aspect of the GAA is just a stick used by Unionists to beat the GAA with. If all were removed tomorrow, they still wouldn't want to be involved in any way.

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 02:28:25 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 02:18:24 PM
so your 'insight' to 'prods in the 26' is Christians singing carols together in Waterford a couple of days before thee "Christian's" birthday? yeah.. that graham Norton hasn't a notion what he's talking about there's no problem ding dong Merrily in waterford

I go to service every week with my wife and intend to raise my son in the Church of Ireland. I don't know why I'm bothering sharing that with you though because, like all good Shinners drones, when the facts change you ignore the facts.

finally.. ive  been waiting for you.. you couldn't have a single thread without shinner this or that.. next thing it'll be hitler and nazis

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

I know loads of Prods who are very interested in Gaelic games, but having played rugby they never had the opportunity to play. At my school I'd have loved to have played soccer never had the chance as the school refused to play English sports.

I've been to many a Cliftonville game during the troubles and funny enough there was plenty of abuse thrown at the Linfield/Glentornan players throughout the season, oh and anti Prod banners ;)

I don't see your point if Prods don't want to play the so what, ya can't force these things on people

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

near relations?? you mean ones you don't go out with :P

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 08:35:58 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 07:22:18 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

I'm not actually  ;) I'm referring to the sons ( and daughters) of Protestant parents a number of whom i know are involved in Gaelic games.

I like the way you can draw conclusions about their nationality / identity?  So if they are involved in Gaelic Games, there is no way that they can have a British identity  or affinity for Britain?

I know the people in question Michaelín and they have no more affinity with Great Britain than I have. They haven't got or want any British nationality/affinity and as one said " How the fcuk could I be British for goodness sake?"

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 09:26:22 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 08:35:58 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 07:22:18 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

I'm not actually  ;) I'm referring to the sons ( and daughters) of Protestant parents a number of whom i know are involved in Gaelic games.

I like the way you can draw conclusions about their nationality / identity?  So if they are involved in Gaelic Games, there is no way that they can have a British identity  or affinity for Britain?

I know the people in question Michaelín and they have no more affinity with Great Britain than I have. They haven't got or want any British nationality/affinity and as one said " How the fcuk could I be British for goodness sake?"

Like saying Dutch Prods have a British nationality/affinity ::)

we could snipe away for 6 months at this. what do we know about prods in the 26? its all hearsay and comparisons with nordie land not really much point..

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 09:42:16 PM
we could snipe away for 6 months at this. what do we I know about prods in the 26? its all hearsay and comparisons with nordie land not really much point..

Fixed that for you.
I think myself and Deiseach might know a little biteen about some of them anyway.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 09:20:00 PM
I don't see your point if Prods don't want to play the so what, ya can't force these things on people

In Antrim we need to MR. Until Ballyclare Thrashers are up and running we'll never win the whole of Ireland hurling championship  :)

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2013, 09:20:00 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

I know loads of Prods who are very interested in Gaelic games, but having played rugby they never had the opportunity to play. At my school I'd have loved to have played soccer never had the chance as the school refused to play English sports.

I've been to many a Cliftonville game during the troubles and funny enough there was plenty of abuse thrown at the Linfield/Glentornan players throughout the season, oh and anti Prod banners ;)

I don't see your point if Prods don't want to play the so what, ya can't force these things on people

In a roundabout way, that is the point I was making. Many many Protestants don't want to, or will ever want to play GAA. That's why I said, that no matter what the GAA do to try and please the unionists, it won't matter, as they wont want to play it.

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 09:45:20 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 09:42:16 PM
we could snipe away for 6 months at this. what do we I know about prods in the 26? its all hearsay and comparisons with nordie land not really much point..

Fixed that for you.
I think myself and Deiseach might know a little biteen about some of them anyway.

are you sure you don't actually live in the film 'the quiet man' take a quick look around. is john wayne spanking Maureen ohara again for being bold?
you point to two isolated examples of 1. carol singing in Waterford at xmas and 2. people of dubious parentage who married prods and 'ass' ume that its a done deal. when in fact if your looking for examples of trouble in the 26 you need look no further than this years football season to see problems between gaelic players in relation to religion.
graham Norton 'IS' a 26 prod and a highly paid tv/radio presenter and he has written and talked about this feeling of isolation and loneliness as a prod being brought up in west cork. 'HE' has described 26 county Ireland as an unwelcoming place for prods in the british press.. I obviously need to let him know about your 'sort of' relations and deiseachs carol service and tell him hes got it all wrong.. for nearly 35 years

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 08:11:31 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 07:17:21 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 23, 2013, 06:43:27 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Lawnweed even makes Syfín sound like a rock of sense.
I've 2 near relations married to Prods and apart from saying "Thank Goodness" instead of "Thank God" they're no different to us just like the other small few that live around here.
I suppose their parents and certainly their grandparents might have had some affinity for Britain and its monarch but the current generation couldn't care less and are involved in Gaelic games etc.

How many protestants in Northern Ireland are involved in Gaelic Games?  Not many I'd say.  Presumably you are referring to the offspring of "mixed" marriages were the children are more often raised as catholics.

How many Catholics played Irish League football? Even during the troubles? Where they had (and still do) to put up with sectarian abuse, anti-catholic banners, songs, British flags/anthems etc? Yet they still played the game, all through that abuse. Maybe they just wanted to play the game, no matter what.

On the other hand, Protestants moan about the GAA being a no go area for Protestants. But no matter what the GAA do now or in the future, it still won't be enough for the vast majority of unionists. They wouldn't want to play GAA anyway.

'Irishness' has nothing whatsoever to do with whether one enjoys gaelic games or not. Prods in the north are more into rugby and football, which entitles them to be considered at least as Irish as BOD or Robbie Keane, I would've thought. There are also many northern nationalists, particularly in urban areas, who would draw their curtains if an All Ireland final was being played in their back garden. Does that make them less Irish than GAA types?

Why would northern Protestants want to be considered as Irish as Robbie Keane? They don't consider themselves in any way Irish.

And Irish or Irishness hasn't been mentioned. Not by me anyway.

I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

As far as unionists are concerned, The North is part of the UK/Britain. I wouldn't imagine they would recognise themselves as being in any way similar to someone from the the South. They have a Btitish identity, so being on the same island means diddly squat to them. In the same way, folk in Gibraltar are in the same country/area as Spain, but they don't consider themselves as Spanish.

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 10:24:25 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 09:45:20 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 09:42:16 PM
we could snipe away for 6 months at this. what do we I know about prods in the 26? its all hearsay and comparisons with nordie land not really much point..

Fixed that for you.
I think myself and Deiseach might know a little biteen about some of them anyway.

are you sure you don't actually live in the film 'the quiet man' take a quick look around. is john wayne spanking Maureen ohara again for being bold?
you point to two isolated examples of 1. carol singing in Waterford at xmas and 2. people of dubious parentage who married prods and 'ass' ume that its a done deal. when in fact if your looking for examples of trouble in the 26 you need look no further than this years football season to see problems between gaelic players in relation to religion.
graham Norton 'IS' a 26 prod and a highly paid tv/radio presenter and he has written and talked about this feeling of isolation and loneliness as a prod being brought up in west cork. 'HE' has described 26 county Ireland as an unwelcoming place for prods in the british press.. I obviously need to let him know about your 'sort of' relations and deiseachs carol service and tell him hes got it all wrong.. for nearly 35 years

I would imagine this isolation could be partly related to the sports/pastimes that is associated with the Protestant churches in the South. Also, maybe the fact they are in the minority, they tend to stick with their own kind.

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

As far as unionists are concerned, The North is part of the UK/Britain. I wouldn't imagine they would recognise themselves as being in any way similar to someone from the the South. They have a Btitish identity, so being on the same island means diddly squat to them. In the same way, folk in Gibraltar are in the same country/area as Spain, but they don't consider themselves as Spanish.

They are similar to someone from the south in that they belong to the same island. The fact that they believe that their part of the island should have a political connection with Britain is a political view. You, and people who share your view, seem to think that this political opinion somehow disqualifies them from being considered properly Irish (i.e belonging to or from the island of Ireland). I disagree. Politics, religion, sporting preferences, etc, shouldn't come in to it.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 11:48:50 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

As far as unionists are concerned, The North is part of the UK/Britain. I wouldn't imagine they would recognise themselves as being in any way similar to someone from the the South. They have a Btitish identity, so being on the same island means diddly squat to them. In the same way, folk in Gibraltar are in the same country/area as Spain, but they don't consider themselves as Spanish.

They are similar to someone from the south in that they belong to the same island. The fact that they believe that their part of the island should have a political connection with Britain is a political view. You, and people who share your view, seem to think that this political opinion somehow disqualifies them from being considered properly Irish (i.e belonging to or from the island of Ireland). I disagree. Politics, religion, sporting preferences, etc, shouldn't come in to it.

Shouldn't, but it does. That's the reality.

I'm not the one saying Northern Protestants aren't Irish. They say it themselves.

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:58:46 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 11:48:50 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

As far as unionists are concerned, The North is part of the UK/Britain. I wouldn't imagine they would recognise themselves as being in any way similar to someone from the the South. They have a Btitish identity, so being on the same island means diddly squat to them. In the same way, folk in Gibraltar are in the same country/area as Spain, but they don't consider themselves as Spanish.

They are similar to someone from the south in that they belong to the same island. The fact that they believe that their part of the island should have a political connection with Britain is a political view. You, and people who share your view, seem to think that this political opinion somehow disqualifies them from being considered properly Irish (i.e belonging to or from the island of Ireland). I disagree. Politics, religion, sporting preferences, etc, shouldn't come in to it.

Shouldn't, but it does. That's the reality.

I'm not the one saying Northern Protestants aren't Irish. They say it themselves.

Do you know any Prods personally? And if you do, do they know your views?

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 10:24:25 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2013, 09:45:20 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 09:42:16 PM
we could snipe away for 6 months at this. what do we I know about prods in the 26? its all hearsay and comparisons with nordie land not really much point..

Fixed that for you.
I think myself and Deiseach might know a little biteen about some of them anyway.

are you sure you don't actually live in the film 'the quiet man' take a quick look around. is john wayne spanking Maureen ohara again for being bold?
you point to two isolated examples of 1. carol singing in Waterford at xmas and 2. people of dubious parentage who married prods and 'ass' ume that its a done deal. when in fact if your looking for examples of trouble in the 26 you need look no further than this years football season to see problems between gaelic players in relation to religion.
graham Norton 'IS' a 26 prod and a highly paid tv/radio presenter and he has written and talked about this feeling of isolation and loneliness as a prod being brought up in west cork. 'HE' has described 26 county Ireland as an unwelcoming place for prods in the british press.. I obviously need to let him know about your 'sort of' relations and deiseachs carol service and tell him hes got it all wrong.. for nearly 35 years

The reason I mentioned the civic carol service was to demonstrate how central an act of Protesant worship - nine lessons and carols - was to the life of the city, but for you it seems to be a symbol of division because . . .well, I don't know. You've already made up your mind in your original questions about the position of Prods in the 26 counties based on the viewpont of a man who has decided (not that we can be sure,  you have chosen not to link to what he said) that his sense of isolation was to do with being Protestant, despite coming from a part of the world which gave us the saying "where even the pigs are Protestants (http://townresearch.blogspot.com/2010/07/bandon.html)", and had nothing to do with being gay. And again I ask, if you have already decided that such an unreliable witness trumps the viewpoint of everyone else, what was this thread all about?

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:58:46 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 11:48:50 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

As far as unionists are concerned, The North is part of the UK/Britain. I wouldn't imagine they would recognise themselves as being in any way similar to someone from the the South. They have a Btitish identity, so being on the same island means diddly squat to them. In the same way, folk in Gibraltar are in the same country/area as Spain, but they don't consider themselves as Spanish.

They are similar to someone from the south in that they belong to the same island. The fact that they believe that their part of the island should have a political connection with Britain is a political view. You, and people who share your view, seem to think that this political opinion somehow disqualifies them from being considered properly Irish (i.e belonging to or from the island of Ireland). I disagree. Politics, religion, sporting preferences, etc, shouldn't come in to it.

Shouldn't, but it does. That's the reality.

I'm not the one saying Northern Protestants aren't Irish. They say it themselves.

When they say it themselves, they are rejecting the notion that being Irish means being Catholic and gaelic and holding a belief in a 32 county independent state; that seems to be only type of Irish offered to them as 'genuine'.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 24, 2013, 07:12:14 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:58:46 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 11:48:50 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

As far as unionists are concerned, The North is part of the UK/Britain. I wouldn't imagine they would recognise themselves as being in any way similar to someone from the the South. They have a Btitish identity, so being on the same island means diddly squat to them. In the same way, folk in Gibraltar are in the same country/area as Spain, but they don't consider themselves as Spanish.

They are similar to someone from the south in that they belong to the same island. The fact that they believe that their part of the island should have a political connection with Britain is a political view. You, and people who share your view, seem to think that this political opinion somehow disqualifies them from being considered properly Irish (i.e belonging to or from the island of Ireland). I disagree. Politics, religion, sporting preferences, etc, shouldn't come in to it.

Shouldn't, but it does. That's the reality.

I'm not the one saying Northern Protestants aren't Irish. They say it themselves.

When they say it themselves, they are rejecting the notion that being Irish means being Catholic and gaelic and holding a belief in a 32 county independent state; that seems to be only type of Irish offered to them as 'genuine'.

How do you know this and feel you can speak for them?

Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 24, 2013, 08:26:29 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 24, 2013, 07:12:14 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:58:46 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 11:48:50 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

As far as unionists are concerned, The North is part of the UK/Britain. I wouldn't imagine they would recognise themselves as being in any way similar to someone from the the South. They have a Btitish identity, so being on the same island means diddly squat to them. In the same way, folk in Gibraltar are in the same country/area as Spain, but they don't consider themselves as Spanish.

They are similar to someone from the south in that they belong to the same island. The fact that they believe that their part of the island should have a political connection with Britain is a political view. You, and people who share your view, seem to think that this political opinion somehow disqualifies them from being considered properly Irish (i.e belonging to or from the island of Ireland). I disagree. Politics, religion, sporting preferences, etc, shouldn't come in to it.

Shouldn't, but it does. That's the reality.

I'm not the one saying Northern Protestants aren't Irish. They say it themselves.

When they say it themselves, they are rejecting the notion that being Irish means being Catholic and gaelic and holding a belief in a 32 county independent state; that seems to be only type of Irish offered to them as 'genuine'.

How do you know this and feel you can speak for them?

I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone. I'm expressing a personal opinion, but it's one based on conversations with my wife of 15 years, my in laws, and a few good friends, all of whom are proud to be from the Ulster protestant-Ulster British tradition.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:48:47 PM

QuoteIt appears that on one hand you are arguing that you should be allowed to be Irish in NI but on the other hand when it comes to a United Ireland that Unionists should just put up with having their identity taken?

Being Irish in Ireland is wishing to be part of the community, being British in Ireland is divorcing yourself from the community with all of the problems that causes. I am not being perfectly logical here, I also expect the Irish in Britain to be responsible members of British society even if they wish to retain an affinity to Ireland. Do you think the Irish in Britain should march up and down seeking the tricolour on their city hall?

So under the current political arrangements you would you be against the Tricolour being flown over Belfast City hall?
If we want / expect symbols of "Irishness" be accepted in NI we have to allow the converse.

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 24, 2013, 08:35:54 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 24, 2013, 08:26:29 AM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 24, 2013, 07:12:14 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:58:46 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 11:48:50 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2013, 11:29:23 PM

Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 23, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
I suspect they would want to considered as Irish as Robbie in the sense of being from and belonging to the island of Ireland, regardless of whether they feel an allegiance to a parliament in Dublin or London. Too many posters on this board would still be of the opinion that Ulster prods are 'invaders' or 'immigrants'. Ridiculous view, imo.

As far as unionists are concerned, The North is part of the UK/Britain. I wouldn't imagine they would recognise themselves as being in any way similar to someone from the the South. They have a Btitish identity, so being on the same island means diddly squat to them. In the same way, folk in Gibraltar are in the same country/area as Spain, but they don't consider themselves as Spanish.

They are similar to someone from the south in that they belong to the same island. The fact that they believe that their part of the island should have a political connection with Britain is a political view. You, and people who share your view, seem to think that this political opinion somehow disqualifies them from being considered properly Irish (i.e belonging to or from the island of Ireland). I disagree. Politics, religion, sporting preferences, etc, shouldn't come in to it.

Shouldn't, but it does. That's the reality.

I'm not the one saying Northern Protestants aren't Irish. They say it themselves.

When they say it themselves, they are rejecting the notion that being Irish means being Catholic and gaelic and holding a belief in a 32 county independent state; that seems to be only type of Irish offered to them as 'genuine'.

How do you know this and feel you can speak for them?

I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone. I'm expressing a personal opinion, but it's one based on conversations with my wife of 15 years, my in laws, and a few good friends, all of whom are proud to be from the Ulster protestant-Ulster British tradition.

Well your post above doesn't read like a personal opinion.

26 prods! They live in a soverign state. They have done so for their whole lives (unless theyre 100) why would they not feel equally irish. They speak the language become politicians join the army/gardai run businesses live on huge farms.. Wait!! Live on huge farms.. Emmm...yeah they own a disproportionite ammount of land in comparison to thier catholic neighbours.. The best land ???

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 10:16:19 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:48:47 PM

QuoteIt appears that on one hand you are arguing that you should be allowed to be Irish in NI but on the other hand when it comes to a United Ireland that Unionists should just put up with having their identity taken?

Being Irish in Ireland is wishing to be part of the community, being British in Ireland is divorcing yourself from the community with all of the problems that causes. I am not being perfectly logical here, I also expect the Irish in Britain to be responsible members of British society even if they wish to retain an affinity to Ireland. Do you think the Irish in Britain should march up and down seeking the tricolour on their city hall?

So under the current political arrangements you would you be against the Tricolour being flown over Belfast City hall?
If we want / expect symbols of "Irishness" be accepted in NI we have to allow the converse.

Under the current political arrangements they should simply fly the Belfast coat of arms on the Belfast city hall and stop arguing about it.

In general, my proposition is that Irishness rank above others things in Ireland, that Britishness rank about other things in Britain, Frenchness in France and so on. This is simple normality.

Protestant is a strange word.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 11:27:47 AM

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 10:16:19 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:48:47 PM

QuoteIt appears that on one hand you are arguing that you should be allowed to be Irish in NI but on the other hand when it comes to a United Ireland that Unionists should just put up with having their identity taken?

Being Irish in Ireland is wishing to be part of the community, being British in Ireland is divorcing yourself from the community with all of the problems that causes. I am not being perfectly logical here, I also expect the Irish in Britain to be responsible members of British society even if they wish to retain an affinity to Ireland. Do you think the Irish in Britain should march up and down seeking the tricolour on their city hall?

So under the current political arrangements you would you be against the Tricolour being flown over Belfast City hall?
If we want / expect symbols of "Irishness" be accepted in NI we have to allow the converse.

Under the current political arrangements they should simply fly the Belfast coat of arms on the Belfast city hall and stop arguing about it.

In general, my proposition is that Irishness rank above others things in Ireland, that Britishness rank about other things in Britain, Frenchness in France and so on. This is simple normality.

Define 'Irishness' as you see it. Also, I note that you talk about Britishness in Britain, as opposed to Britishness in the UK. Any particular reason why you chose that form of words?

Quote from: lawnseed on December 24, 2013, 11:11:59 AM
26 prods! They live in a soverign state. They have done so for their whole lives (unless theyre 100) why would they not feel equally irish. They speak the language become politicians join the army/gardai run businesses live on huge farms.. Wait!! Live on huge farms.. Emmm...yeah they own a disproportionite ammount of land in comparison to thier catholic neighbours.. The best land ???

I'd be fairly sure this "difference" is related to a perception in the aborigional irish that these prods took this land and are undeserving of it. That they have enjoyed the benefits of being loyal to the crown and now thats over.. Theres going to be payback. I feel my monaghan prod farmer example is just his family's way of preventing his huge holding falling into papish hands

QuoteAlso, I note that you talk about Britishness in Britain, as opposed to Britishness in the UK. Any particular reason why you chose that form of words?

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has two parts. In any normal union people would be clear which bit there were from, and staunch in their identity to that part,  rather than identifying with the other bit. The UK is not a real union, it is Britain and a colonial appendage. In the original act of Union with Ireland  the British simply carried on talking about the British government and the British Army etc. as if nothing had happened, because of course nothing had happened  as it was not intended to be an equal union. In a real union people in NI would object to this onsidedness and insist on the term UK being used for official purposes. But were someone to propose greater use of the term UK the greatest opposition to it would be in NI where people would object to being UKites, but would demand to be "British". That is because their affinity is not with their own part of the union, but the colonial identity. If unionist had any real wish for an inclusive NI, inclusive of the Irish people there, remaining in the UK indefinitely they would drop this British this and emphasise the UK thing. But there is zero chance of them doing that.

Quote from: lawnseed on December 24, 2013, 12:03:50 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 24, 2013, 11:11:59 AM
26 prods! They live in a soverign state. They have done so for their whole lives (unless theyre 100) why would they not feel equally irish. They speak the language become politicians join the army/gardai run businesses live on huge farms.. Wait!! Live on huge farms.. Emmm...yeah they own a disproportionite ammount of land in comparison to thier catholic neighbours.. The best land ???

I'd be fairly sure this "difference" is related to a perception in the aborigional irish that these prods took this land and are undeserving of it. That they have enjoyed the benefits of being loyal to the crown and now thats over.. Theres going to be payback. I feel my monaghan prod farmer example is just his family's way of preventing his huge holding falling into papish hands

Are you quoting yourself??


Anyway plenty of land in South Armagh that has fallen into papish hands over the years ;) This is pants, Prods down south have as much affinity to Britain as the Dutch/German/Danish Prods do to Britain. Maybe 90 odd years ago they probably felt like we did here in the North, left out, but surprising what time does and hopefully we here in the North will be able to cross that bridge.

As for people marrying their own it happens due to who they grow up with, church with school with, Jews stick with their own as do Muslims but we don't seem to be bringing that up as a problem, strange that ;) I wonder do they see themselves as Irish or not lol

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 11:27:47 AM

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 10:16:19 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2013, 12:48:47 PM

QuoteIt appears that on one hand you are arguing that you should be allowed to be Irish in NI but on the other hand when it comes to a United Ireland that Unionists should just put up with having their identity taken?

Being Irish in Ireland is wishing to be part of the community, being British in Ireland is divorcing yourself from the community with all of the problems that causes. I am not being perfectly logical here, I also expect the Irish in Britain to be responsible members of British society even if they wish to retain an affinity to Ireland. Do you think the Irish in Britain should march up and down seeking the tricolour on their city hall?

So under the current political arrangements you would you be against the Tricolour being flown over Belfast City hall?
If we want / expect symbols of "Irishness" be accepted in NI we have to allow the converse.

Under the current political arrangements they should simply fly the Belfast coat of arms on the Belfast city hall and stop arguing about it.

In general, my proposition is that Irishness rank above others things in Ireland, that Britishness rank about other things in Britain, Frenchness in France and so on. This is simple normality.

So because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 12:09:51 PM

QuoteAlso, I note that you talk about Britishness in Britain, as opposed to Britishness in the UK. Any particular reason why you chose that form of words?

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has two parts. In any normal union people would be clear which bit there were from, and staunch in their identity to that part,  rather than identifying with the other bit. The UK is not a real union, it is Britain and a colonial appendage. In the original act of Union with Ireland  the British simply carried on talking about the British government and the British Army etc. as if nothing had happened, because of course nothing had happened  as it was not intended to be an equal union. In a real union people in NI would object to this onsidedness and insist on the term UK being used for official purposes. But were someone to propose greater use of the term UK the greatest opposition to it would be in NI where people would object to being UKites, but would demand to be "British". That is because their affinity is not with their own part of the union, but the colonial identity. If unionist had any real wish for an inclusive NI, inclusive of the Irish people there, remaining in the UK indefinitely they would drop this British this and emphasise the UK thing. But there is zero chance of them doing that.

You keep answering your own posts, I think the clue is they are Unionists and prefer (rightly or wrongly, depending on how you view it) to be British, it doesn't matter that you can explain the make up of the union and how it actually is legally, they would prefer collectively to be part of the UK and have the queen as the head of the state, is that a bad thing? We can't go forcing views on people because it was forced on us. In due time I'm sure it will (like Scotland) get to the point were democratically the referendum will take place and that will give everyone a truer picture.

QuoteSo because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 12:28:01 PM

QuoteSo because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Do you know many Protestants?

I know as many Protestants as anyone else, given their proportion in Ireland's population. Also I know many people where I have no idea what church, if any, they attend.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 12:28:01 PM

QuoteSo because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

Thinking yourself Irish in Ireland is simple normality and so not likely to disappear. Thinking yourself other things tends to disappear over the generations.

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 05:56:02 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 12:28:01 PM

QuoteSo because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

It's the British and Irish isles. The Aran Islands or The Blaskets aren't part of Britain, are they?

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
Thinking yourself Irish in Ireland is simple normality and so not likely to disappear. Thinking yourself other things tends to disappear over the generations.

Indeed, but not overnight and that needs to be catered for.

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 06:07:09 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 05:56:02 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 12:28:01 PM

QuoteSo because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

It's the British and Irish isles. The Aran Islands or The Blaskets aren't part of Britain, are they?

Did someone say they were?

The British and Irish Islands is one of a number (and the most politically correct) term for these Islands but There is no official correct nomenclature and the term I used is the most wildly used.

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 06:31:12 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 06:07:09 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 05:56:02 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 12:28:01 PM

QuoteSo because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

It's the British and Irish isles. The Aran Islands or The Blaskets aren't part of Britain, are they?

Did someone say they were?

The British and Irish Islands is one of a number (and the most politically correct) term for these Islands but There is no official correct nomenclature and the term I used is the most wildly used.

Maybe so, but it's incorrect.

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 08:27:49 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 06:31:12 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 06:07:09 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 05:56:02 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 12:28:01 PM

QuoteSo because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

It's the British and Irish isles. The Aran Islands or The Blaskets aren't part of Britain, are they?

Did someone say they were?

The British and Irish Islands is one of a number (and the most politically correct) term for these Islands but There is no official correct nomenclature and the term I used is the most wildly used.

Maybe so, but it's incorrect.

Like I say there is no official name.

Leo, you ARE wrong. Ireland is not part of the British isles, regardless of how you wanna mince it.

I may be wrong but when studying, a geographical term used was "The British isles" which referred to the totality of both islands.
It was a geography term, not political in sense originally. Thus I believe the term is correct, even though I dislike it.

Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 10:34:53 PM
Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

Or like when Nationalists refer to Northern Ireland as the North perhaps. What about poor old Donegal?

Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2013, 11:08:05 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 10:34:53 PM
Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

Or like when Nationalists refer to Northern Ireland as the North perhaps. What about poor old Senegal?

Sorry Cake, but you're basing your statement "el papa" like on what? Yea I read your previous proclamations of superior knowledge

Quote from: ardal on December 24, 2013, 11:30:37 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2013, 11:08:05 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 10:34:53 PM
Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

Or like when Nationalists refer to Northern Ireland as the North perhaps. What about poor old Senegal?

Sorry Cake, but you're basing your statement "el papa" like on what? Yea I read your previous proclamations of superior knowledge

What exactly are you asking me, Ardal? If indeed you are asking anything at all.

Quote from: ardal on December 24, 2013, 09:57:32 PM
I may be wrong but when studying, a geographical term used was "The British isles" which referred to the totality of both islands.
It was a geography term, not political in sense originally. Thus I believe the term is correct, even though I dislike it.

I don't buy that argument. Does anyone call Sardinia and Corsica 'the Sardinian Isles'? No geographical term is devoid of political meaning.

Quote from: LeoMc on December 24, 2013, 05:56:02 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 24, 2013, 12:28:01 PM

QuoteSo because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommohttp://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?action=post;quote=1307196;topic=24102.105#dated better than we were.

great post.. the best on this thread so far

Quote from: cadhlancian on December 24, 2013, 09:52:45 PM
Leo, you ARE wrong. Ireland is not part of the British isles, regardless of how you wanna mince it.

no your wrong Ireland is part of the british isles

look at any world map. its a geographical term not political

It'd be amusing if it wasn't an illustration of almost frightening stupidity to see someone start a thread to ask for insight into a phenomenon and then reject informed insight on the basis that it contradicts their prejudices.

Coincidentally, this very subject came up spontaneously yesterday in a Christmas morning gathering in a neighbour's house. It turned out when the subject came up (when the host slagged a friend of his as a "protestant gentleman") that the company included about six or seven protestants in a group of about twenty.

I think it's relevant to the thread, even a small insight into how "protestants"  down here see themselves (so lawnseed, you won't be interested) that:

-   One of these "protestants" spontaneously referred to his distaste for a certain type of his Northern co-religionists, that he referred to as "thumpers" and gave us an anecdote about how one of them disapproved of his "mixed" marriage.
-   Another volunteered a story about being snubbed by the mayor of Larne (? not sure – somewhere starting with "L") at a civic reception for a sailing event when the mayor heard his Cork accent. He told the story as a citizen of the Irish republic feeling insulted.

As I've mentioned here before, my experience of protestants in my local community (in Cork, where Graham Norton, flamboyantly gay, probably not noticeably "protestant" to the community at large, felt "isolated") is that they are indistinguishable from the rest of the community in their conduct of their citizenship and in practically all other aspects of social life. But that's only a fact, lawnseed, relevant to your initial inquiry, so feel free to ignore it.

(I've put the term "protestant" in inverted commas to illustrate the fact that the "protestants" I know never refer to themselves as such and seem to dislike the term. They use "Church Of Ireland". I assume it must feel similar to them as it does to people of my tradition being referred to as "papists". It seems to be intended in a pejorative sense by people who have scant respect for them.)

An awful lot of words there.

So hardy nothing to with being prod more to do with being flamboyantly gay. Poor graham hadnt much going for him..

Quote from: lawnseed on December 27, 2013, 01:35:04 PM
So hardy nothing to with being prod more to do with being flamboyantly gay. Poor graham hadnt much going for him..

A gay Prod living in Cork feeling isolated hmmmmm, Now if he had have hurled for Cork.......

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 11:40:49 PM

Quote from: ardal on December 24, 2013, 11:30:37 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2013, 11:08:05 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 10:34:53 PM
Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

Or like when Nationalists refer to Northern Ireland as the North perhaps. What about poor old Senegal?

Sorry Cake, but you're basing your statement "el papa" like on what? Yea I read your previous proclamations of superior knowledge

What exactly are you asking me, Ardal? If indeed you are asking anything at all.

There are no "British and Irish isles" in any sense of the phrase. The British isles is a geographical reference to the totality of both; inclusive of islands, of both,relatively, new nations.

Quote from: ardal on December 27, 2013, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 11:40:49 PM

Quote from: ardal on December 24, 2013, 11:30:37 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2013, 11:08:05 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 10:34:53 PM
Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

Or like when Nationalists refer to Northern Ireland as the North perhaps. What about poor old Senegal?

Sorry Cake, but you're basing your statement "el papa" like on what? Yea I read your previous proclamations of superior knowledge

What exactly are you asking me, Ardal? If indeed you are asking anything at all.

There are no "British and Irish isles" in any sense of the phrase. The British isles is a geographical reference to the totality of both; inclusive of islands, of both,relatively, new nations.

Well, to borrow a quote from Roy Keane, "just because Alex Ferguson says something, doesn't mean he's right". And just because Ireland and Britain are referred to as the "British Isles" doesn't mean it's correct.

The British gave Derry a different name, but it's doesn't mean we all have to use the L word, does it?

Quote from: lawnseed on December 21, 2013, 06:19:19 PM
Just been reading gramham nortons bit about growing up a prod in cork. Not great it seems he felt lonely. This is very difficult to understand for me since I always found the cork people the friendliest people on the island. I think if I had to move I'd head to cork especially the west of the county where nortons from.
This makes me think what is it like for prods in the 26? Is there ill feeling? Are they isolated? Maybe not quite as irish as their catholic countrymen? Are we on this island so fukd up that this really matters almost 100years after independance?

You have to remember that Norton is about 50 now so he was talking about life in West Cork around 35/ 40 years ago.
There wasn't an area, north or south, where gays got an easy time of it in those days. He should consider himself lucky that he wasn't born in Tiger Bay or the Sandy Row.
He'd find out the hard way that his fellow-religionists were far more intolerant of gays than the rural communities of West Cork or indeed any other part of rural Ireland.

Quote from: BennyCake on December 27, 2013, 02:34:31 PM

Quote from: ardal on December 27, 2013, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 11:40:49 PM

Quote from: ardal on December 24, 2013, 11:30:37 PM

Quote from: michaelg on December 24, 2013, 11:08:05 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on December 24, 2013, 10:34:53 PM
Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

Or like when Nationalists refer to Northern Ireland as the North perhaps. What about poor old Senegal?

Sorry Cake, but you're basing your statement "el papa" like on what? Yea I read your previous proclamations of superior knowledge

What exactly are you asking me, Ardal? If indeed you are asking anything at all.

There are no "British and Irish isles" in any sense of the phrase. The British isles is a geographical reference to the totality of both; inclusive of islands, of both,relatively, new nations.

Well, to borrow a quote from Roy Keane, "just because Alex Ferguson says something, doesn't mean he's right". And just because Ireland and Britain are referred to as the "British Isles" doesn't mean it's correct.

The British gave Derry a different name, but it's doesn't mean we all have to use the L word, does it?

"The British"?
The city of London bought Derry, not the British, although it should be called "London´s Derry"

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2013, 01:57:56 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 27, 2013, 01:35:04 PM
So hardy nothing to with being prod more to do with being flamboyantly gay. Poor graham hadnt much going for him..

A gay Prod living in Cork feeling isolated hmmmmm, Now if he had have hurled for Cork.......

The man should be grateful he wasnt a black gay prod..

Quote from: lawnseed on December 27, 2013, 04:18:29 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2013, 01:57:56 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 27, 2013, 01:35:04 PM
So hardy nothing to with being prod more to do with being flamboyantly gay. Poor graham hadnt much going for him..

A gay Prod living in Cork feeling isolated hmmmmm, Now if he had have hurled for Cork.......

The man should be grateful he wasnt a black gay prod..

Or an eejit like some I could mention........

Quote from: lawnseed on December 27, 2013, 04:18:29 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2013, 01:57:56 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 27, 2013, 01:35:04 PM
So hardy nothing to with being prod more to do with being flamboyantly gay. Poor graham hadnt much going for him..

A gay Prod living in Cork feeling isolated hmmmmm, Now if he had have hurled for Cork.......

The man should be grateful he wasnt a black gay prod..

Haha, best comment yet!

I have been in contact with graham and asked him to partake in this thread.. Maybe we can get an insight to life in ireland for prods.. Gay or otherwise

Quote from: lawnseed on December 29, 2013, 01:48:09 PM
I have been in contact with graham and asked him to partake in this thread.. Maybe we can get an insight to life in ireland for prods.. Gay or otherwise

You'd "get an insight to life in ireland for prods" 30 years ago...

Good post by Hardy and that would be my experience of protestants in the south too. One thing to add is I don't think protestants i know like to be referred to as "prods" either.

THey're called Prodishdens round these parts .

What do non "Church of Ireland" prods in the south like to be called then?

If asked their religious affiliation, I'm sure they'd respond with Methodist, Baptist or whatever applies.

Quote from: Hardy on December 30, 2013, 11:00:47 AM
If asked their religious affiliation, I'm sure they'd respond with Methodist, Baptist or whatever applies.

The same as elsewhere then. Fancy that.

Quote from: T Fearon on December 29, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
What do non "Church of Ireland" prods in the south like to be called then?

I'm sure you have loads of "prod" friends you could ask. I mean there is nothing "prods" like better than befriending bigots and defenders of Paedos like yourself so I'm sure your address book is full of people you can call.

Quote from: T Fearon on December 29, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
What do non "Church of Ireland" prods in the south like to be called then?

Irish

Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 30, 2013, 11:58:19 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on December 29, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
What do non "Church of Ireland" prods in the south like to be called then?

I'm sure you have loads of "prod" friends you could ask. I mean there is nothing "prods" like better than befriending bigots and defenders of Paedos like yourself so I'm sure your address book is full of people you can call.

I would have a large amount of Prod friends I haven't heard them say that its a word that offends them though none of them are church goers, as are the vast majority of taigs I know also don't go to church also. Religion has a lot to answer for

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2013, 01:42:08 PM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 30, 2013, 11:58:19 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on December 29, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
What do non "Church of Ireland" prods in the south like to be called then?

I'm sure you have loads of "prod" friends you could ask. I mean there is nothing "prods" like better than befriending bigots and defenders of Paedos like yourself so I'm sure your address book is full of people you can call.

I would have a large amount of Prod friends I haven't heard them say that its a word that offends them though none of them are church goers, as are the vast majority of taigs I know also don't go to church also. Religion has a lot to answer for

Would you call them "prods"? I certainly wouldn't use that term and especially not to people who I am friends with. I've never in my life heard the word Taig being used in the south so that must be a 6 county thing.

The solution to this separation and labeling is for the law to simply remove religion from schools. It is that simple, indoctrinating a child in the way we do both north is south is an evil act in my opinion and indeed it serve only one purpose, to give power to these religious organisations.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 30, 2013, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2013, 01:42:08 PM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 30, 2013, 11:58:19 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on December 29, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
What do non "Church of Ireland" prods in the south like to be called then?

I'm sure you have loads of "prod" friends you could ask. I mean there is nothing "prods" like better than befriending bigots and defenders of Paedos like yourself so I'm sure your address book is full of people you can call.

I would have a large amount of Prod friends I haven't heard them say that its a word that offends them though none of them are church goers, as are the vast majority of taigs I know also don't go to church also. Religion has a lot to answer for

Would you call them "prods"? I certainly wouldn't use that term and especially not to people who I am friends with. I've never in my life heard the word Taig being used in the south so that must be a 6 county thing.

Yes, but its how you say it, "yous prods are all the same" I wouldn't be in the position to say it a lot, having been married to one for a lot of years I can say it whenever

I suppose it is a bit like some black people referring to themselves as "n**gers". However, for me "prod" is in general a derogatory term and I don't use it.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 30, 2013, 04:18:09 PM
I suppose it is a bit like some black people referring to themselves as "n**gers". However, for me "prod" is in general a derogatory term and I don't use it.

I wouldn't go as so far to say it in the same league as the N word but sure I haven't been bate up yet ;)

I hope if graham does decide to make a contribution to this discussion that you guys will tidy up your spelling and terminology. He will be a 'guest'.. best china and all that

'prod' is like 'brit', a short version sometimes used by the group themselves.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 30, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
'prod' is like 'brit', a short version sometimes used by the group themselves.

Perhaps not quite a total fallicy, but a hefty dose of bullshit never the less.

Quote from: Puckoon on December 30, 2013, 08:03:19 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 30, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
'prod' is like 'brit', a short version sometimes used by the group themselves.

Perhaps not quite a total fallicy, but a hefty dose of bullshit never the less.

Then the term does not refer to our good nationalist republican protestants down in our glorious Republic.

The only Brits in the Republics are some E.U. migrants and tourists.

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 31, 2013, 09:36:08 PM

Quote from: Puckoon on December 30, 2013, 08:03:19 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 30, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
'prod' is like 'brit', a short version sometimes used by the group themselves.

Perhaps not quite a total fallicy, but a hefty dose of bullshit never the less.

Then the term does not refer to our good nationalist republican protestants down in our glorious Republic.

The only Brits in the Republics are some E.U. migrants and tourists.

Mexican prods??  :P

There's many a West Brit in the 26 counties, and they're not all in the West.

find nortons comments strange, even stranger when bandon has a bit of a protestant community living in and around the town.
more likely he felt isolated due to perceptions on his sexual pref rather than religion id say.

know prods in school and most kept to themselves, people tried to get them to play GAA games and some did but most wouldnt.
people only copped they were prod because of the fact that they distanced themselves from integration.
of those that integrated , most folk never knew their religion - or cared.

have been to funerals in cavan for prod and catholic people and much the same faces were at both.

cavan may not have had the same religious difficulties as in the 6 counties, but it was there in the early stages of independence I believe.
more so than furthe down the country id have thought.
time heals and integration will come with future generations. along with reunification.

Quote from: Hardy on December 26, 2013, 01:20:40 PM
(I've put the term "protestant" in inverted commas to illustrate the fact that the "protestants" I know never refer to themselves as such and seem to dislike the term. They use "Church Of Ireland". I assume it must feel similar to them as it does to people of my tradition being referred to as "papists". It seems to be intended in a pejorative sense by people who have scant respect for them.)

It's all a bit arcane (what about religion is not arcane) but members of the Anglican communion, whether they are from England, Ireland or Ethiopia, do not see themselves as being 'Protestant' in the Reformation sense of the term. The initial break with Rome was not on theological terms such as transubstantiation but on the authority of the Pope.

Yes, a lot of people North and South exclude themselves, whether they know it or not. As long as communal culture is tolerated and encouraged (providing this is harmless and not provocative nor antagonistic), then no one should feel excluded anywhere.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 31, 2013, 09:46:26 PM
There's many a West Brit in the 26 counties, and they're not all in the West.

But they are all in West Britain.

Quote from: deiseach on January 02, 2014, 12:09:46 PM

Quote from: Hardy on December 26, 2013, 01:20:40 PM
(I've put the term "protestant" in inverted commas to illustrate the fact that the "protestants" I know never refer to themselves as such and seem to dislike the term. They use "Church Of Ireland". I assume it must feel similar to them as it does to people of my tradition being referred to as "papists". It seems to be intended in a pejorative sense by people who have scant respect for them.)

It's all a bit arcane (what about religion is not arcane) but members of the Anglican communion, whether they are from England, Ireland or Ethiopia, do not see themselves as being 'Protestant' in the Reformation sense of the term. The initial break with Rome was not on theological terms such as transubstantiation but on the authority of the Pope.

Ah! That makes complete sense of the response of the man accused of being a "protestant gentleman". He said, jokingly, "I didn't think I was either". I assumed C of I people took exception to "protestant" as a sort of dismissive term. But they have a specific reason, that was lost on me until now, for rejecting the description.

Quote from: Hardy on January 02, 2014, 12:42:46 PM
Ah! That makes complete sense of the response of the man accused of being a "protestant gentleman". He said, jokingly, "I didn't think I was either". I assumed C of I people took exception to "protestant" as a sort of dismissive term. But they have a specific reason, that was lost on me until now, for rejecting the description.

It was explained to me in these terms: "I'm an Irish Catholic, not a Roman Catholic". I think it's fair to say your acquaintance subscribes to that point of view.

Surely if you belong to a Christian denomination, which isn't Roman Catholic, you are automatically a protestant, whether you like it or not? No sitting on the fence on this one.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 02, 2014, 12:47:22 PM
Surely if you belong to a Christian denomination, which isn't Roman Catholic, you are automatically a protestant, whether you like it or not? No sitting on the fence on this one.

No, but be careful though as you'd probably break the fence

Quote from: T Fearon on January 02, 2014, 12:47:22 PM
Surely if you belong to a Christian denomination, which isn't Roman Catholic, you are automatically a protestant, whether you like it or not? No sitting on the fence on this one.

So, what of the Russian Orthodox Church? I'd always thought of it as Christian, but neither Roman Catholic or Protestant. I could be wrong,,,

Quote from: johnneycool on January 02, 2014, 01:26:08 PM
So, what of the Russian Orthodox Church? I'd always thought of it as Christian, but neither Roman Catholic or Protestant. I could be wrong,,,

You are not wrong.

Quote from: deiseach on January 02, 2014, 01:43:50 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on January 02, 2014, 01:26:08 PM
So, what of the Russian Orthodox Church? I'd always thought of it as Christian, but neither Roman Catholic or Protestant. I could be wrong,,,

You are not wrong.

They are all made up.

In any event Anglicans will soon be back in communion with Rome, with the Pope as overall leader. Didn't the Archbishop of Canterbury recently cite Pope Francis as his Man of the Year 2013? If that's not trying to worm your way back in I dont know what is! ;D

Quote from: T Fearon on January 02, 2014, 03:06:25 PM
In any event Anglicans will soon be back in communion with Rome, with the Pope as overall leader. Didn't the Archbishop of Canterbury recently cite Pope Francis as his Man of the Year 2013? If that's not trying to worm your way back in I dont know what is! ;D

Will he bring the married and gay priests with him though?

Would be a good thing IMO.

Quote from: johnneycool on January 02, 2014, 03:39:59 PM
Will he bring the married and gay priests with him though?

Would be a good thing IMO.

Which brings us back to . . .

(http://s0.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/furlong-3.gif)

Quote from: deiseach on January 02, 2014, 12:09:46 PM
members of the Anglican communion, whether they are from England, Ireland or Ethiopia, do not see themselves as being 'Protestant' in the Reformation sense of the term.

Yet the whole lot of them in the North are usually referred to as "Protestants".
Serious Question - what is the difference between Presbyterianism and Methodism ??( Methodists in the North seem more reasonable and Christian to me)

Difference is how literally they interpret the Bible, and degree of divergence on whether God is one of  Love/Mercy or Vengeance, with Presbyterianism a lot more extreme towads the vengeance part. Anglicanism is catholic only in the sense of being universal, but unites with all other protestant faiths (and regardless of what members may think, they are "protestant") in opposition to the "Church of Rome", albeit not too mch doctrinally but in opposition to a "Surpreme" Pontiff

With such a divergence of protestant views, reflected in their different churches, is it any wonder that Northern unionism is split so many ways.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2014, 01:06:25 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on January 02, 2014, 12:47:22 PM
Surely if you belong to a Christian denomination, which isn't Roman Catholic, you are automatically a protestant, whether you like it or not? No sitting on the fence on this one.

No, but be careful though as you'd probably break the fence

mmmm Orthodox Christians, Coptic Christians, Official Chinese State Catholics, that Catholic-African hybrid religion in Cuba.

They should be banished

Quote from: T Fearon on January 02, 2014, 04:02:01 PM
in opposition to the "Church of Rome", albeit not too mch doctrinally but in opposition to a "Surpreme" Pontiff

I think I would have jumped ship back in the day (reformation times). No one can deny they didn't have a point

If Martin Luther came back today he'd probably be happy to be an RC as anything else. In 16th century terms even the modern Catholics are Protestant (which is why the whole NI thing is stupid).

It is a pity the Deformation caused a split in the Church. Protestantism in my view is fatally flawed as it basically states that faith alone (regardless of supporting actions) is sufficient to win salvation,which is why so many are convinced the likes of Billy Wright are in heaven.I'll stick with the original ....and the best!

Quote from: T Fearon on January 03, 2014, 12:05:16 AM
It is a pity the Deformation caused a split in the Church. Protestantism in my view is fatally flawed as it basically states that faith alone (regardless of supporting actions) is sufficient to win salvation,which is why so many are convinced the likes of Billy Wright are in heaven.I'll stick with the original ....and the best!

If Billy was a catholic all he had to do was go to confession and gain absolution from a priest and he'd be in heaven as well, splitting hairs methinks Tony.

Quote from: T Fearon on January 03, 2014, 12:05:16 AM
It is a pity the Deformation caused a split in the Church. Protestantism in my view is fatally flawed as it basically states that faith alone (regardless of supporting actions) is sufficient to win salvation,which is why so many are convinced the likes of Billy Wright are in heaven.I'll stick with the original ....and the best!

You really think the Church of Rome is the original Christian faith!!!!!! Of course Christianity is just a cocktail of previous Asian, African and European myths and fairytales

Quote from: Apparently so on January 02, 2014, 04:13:11 PM
They should be banished

As should Atheists.

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 02:28:25 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 02:18:24 PM
so your 'insight' to 'prods in the 26' is Christians singing carols together in Waterford a couple of days before thee "Christian's" birthday? yeah.. that graham Norton hasn't a notion what he's talking about there's no problem ding dong Merrily in waterford

I go to service every week with my wife and intend to raise my son in the Church of Ireland. I don't know why I'm bothering sharing that with you though because, like all good Shinners drones, when the facts change you ignore the facts.

Is it High Church or Low church? I like the theatre and prayerfulness of our mass, (which High Church Anglicans retain),but can't agree with the Catholic Church on a number of things, and would be closer to the COI/COE on these. What I can't stomach though is the links with the OO, praying for the Queen and flags and banners in and on churches. I do believe though that if I was living in the South I'd probably join the COI.

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 09:24:24 AM

Quote from: Apparently so on January 02, 2014, 04:13:11 PM
They should be banished

As should Atheists.

For being right!  :o

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 10:04:53 AM
Is it High Church or Low church? I like the theatre and prayerfulness of our mass, (which High Church Anglicans retain),but can't agree with the Catholic Church on a number of things, and would be closer to the COI/COE on these. What I can't stomach though is the links with the OO, praying for the Queen and flags and banners in and on churches. I do believe though that if I was living in the South I'd probably join the COI.

I think everything in the Church of Ireland is considered Low Church. The Presbyterian influence in the North has pushed the Church of Ireland in that direction, in contrast to the Church of England where you had the Oxford Movement.

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 10:04:53 AM

Quote from: deiseach on December 23, 2013, 02:28:25 PM

Quote from: lawnseed on December 23, 2013, 02:18:24 PM
so your 'insight' to 'prods in the 26' is Christians singing carols together in Waterford a couple of days before thee "Christian's" birthday? yeah.. that graham Norton hasn't a notion what he's talking about there's no problem ding dong Merrily in waterford

I go to service every week with my wife and intend to raise my son in the Church of Ireland. I don't know why I'm bothering sharing that with you though because, like all good Shinners drones, when the facts change you ignore the facts.

Is it High Church or Low church? I like the theatre and prayerfulness of our mass, (which High Church Anglicans retain),but can't agree with the Catholic Church on a number of things, and would be closer to the COI/COE on these. What I can't stomach though is the links with the OO, praying for the Queen and flags and banners in and on churches. I do believe though that if I was living in the South I'd probably join the COI.

About 10 years ago the local Castlebar RC parish raised money in their collections to help pay to restore the roof of Christchurch (the COI church in town).

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:19:51 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 09:24:24 AM

Quote from: Apparently so on January 02, 2014, 04:13:11 PM
They should be banished

As should Atheists.

For being right!  :o

They're not. But that wasn't my point.

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 10:23:16 AM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:19:51 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 09:24:24 AM

Quote from: Apparently so on January 02, 2014, 04:13:11 PM
They should be banished

As should Atheists.

For being right!  :o

They're not.

O yes we are.

In your opinion. and I respect that.

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 10:25:40 AM
In your opinion. and I respect that.

I can't say the same. It is your prerogative to be wrong.

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:24:24 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 10:23:16 AM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:19:51 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 09:24:24 AM

Quote from: Apparently so on January 02, 2014, 04:13:11 PM
They should be banished

As should Atheists.

For being right!  :o

They're not.

O yes we are.

This from an eejit who thinks Co.Mayo+Ballaghaderreen is the "home of football" :'( :'(

Quote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2014, 10:36:35 AM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:24:24 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 10:23:16 AM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:19:51 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 09:24:24 AM

Quote from: Apparently so on January 02, 2014, 04:13:11 PM
They should be banished

As should Atheists.

For being right!  :o

They're not.

O yes we are.

This from an eejit who thinks Co.Mayo+Ballaghaderreen is the "home of football" :'( :'(

If you believe there is any deity or supernatural, you sir are the eejit. I understand this may hurt your feelings, however that does not change the issue that all religion and faith in the supernatural are products of ignorance and manipulation.

It is understandable that a Rossie would feel comfortable as a sheep.

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:34:23 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 10:25:40 AM
In your opinion. and I respect that.

I can't say the same. It is your prerogative to be wrong.

Again in your opinion.

Quote from: deiseach on January 03, 2014, 10:20:15 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 10:04:53 AM
Is it High Church or Low church? I like the theatre and prayerfulness of our mass, (which High Church Anglicans retain),but can't agree with the Catholic Church on a number of things, and would be closer to the COI/COE on these. What I can't stomach though is the links with the OO, praying for the Queen and flags and banners in and on churches. I do believe though that if I was living in the South I'd probably join the COI.

I think everything in the Church of Ireland is considered Low Church. The Presbyterian influence in the North has pushed the Church of Ireland in that direction, in contrast to the Church of England where you had the Oxford Movement.

So your services are more like Presbyterian?

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 12:23:06 PM

Quote from: deiseach on January 03, 2014, 10:20:15 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 10:04:53 AM
Is it High Church or Low church? I like the theatre and prayerfulness of our mass, (which High Church Anglicans retain),but can't agree with the Catholic Church on a number of things, and would be closer to the COI/COE on these. What I can't stomach though is the links with the OO, praying for the Queen and flags and banners in and on churches. I do believe though that if I was living in the South I'd probably join the COI.

I think everything in the Church of Ireland is considered Low Church. The Presbyterian influence in the North has pushed the Church of Ireland in that direction, in contrast to the Church of England where you had the Oxford Movement.

So your services are more like Presbyterian?

They're not Presbyterian. They have communion services that are close to mass and even the worship services are closer to the Catholic church than any Calvinist church. The revised 2004 Prayer Book strikes me as being deliberately close to Catholic rites. But they are austere affairs. No smells and bells. One of the church wardens, who is English, told me that his wife, who is Irish, was shocked when she attended a Church of England service and found lots of what she viewed as Popish rituals.

Quote from: deiseach on January 03, 2014, 12:28:37 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 12:23:06 PM

Quote from: deiseach on January 03, 2014, 10:20:15 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 10:04:53 AM
Is it High Church or Low church? I like the theatre and prayerfulness of our mass, (which High Church Anglicans retain),but can't agree with the Catholic Church on a number of things, and would be closer to the COI/COE on these. What I can't stomach though is the links with the OO, praying for the Queen and flags and banners in and on churches. I do believe though that if I was living in the South I'd probably join the COI.

I think everything in the Church of Ireland is considered Low Church. The Presbyterian influence in the North has pushed the Church of Ireland in that direction, in contrast to the Church of England where you had the Oxford Movement.

So your services are more like Presbyterian?

They're not Presbyterian. They have communion services that are close to mass and even the worship services are closer to the Catholic church than any Calvinist church. The revised 2004 Prayer Book strikes me as being deliberately close to Catholic rites. But they are austere affairs. No smells and bells. One of the church wardens, who is English, told me that his wife, who is Irish, was shocked when she attended a Church of England service and found lots of what she viewed as Popish rituals.

Yeah I'd say I am still a closet pape then, although the use of incense at times pisses me off.

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 02:01:10 PM
Yeah I'd say I am still a closet pape then, although the use of incense at times pisses me off.

It's rare you'll hear talk of lapsed Protestants.

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 11:11:15 AM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:34:23 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 10:25:40 AM
In your opinion. and I respect that.

I can't say the same. It is your prerogative to be wrong.

Again in your opinion.

There is a programme on the History channel called Ancient Aliens, and as ludicrous as the content of the programme is, it is much more believable as to why we are here than a Supreme Being and creator and sustainer of the universe.   There is no God just propaganda and agenda's, it's amazing that the richest organisations in the world are religious organisations which allegedly promote christian values, but which are only achievable though if people part with their hard earn cash.

Quote from: Cold tea on January 04, 2014, 01:22:53 PM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 11:11:15 AM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 03, 2014, 10:34:23 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2014, 10:25:40 AM
In your opinion. and I respect that.

I can't say the same. It is your prerogative to be wrong.

Again in your opinion.

There is a programme on the History channel called Ancient Aliens, and as ludicrous as the content of the programme is, it is much more believable as to why we are here than a Supreme Being and creator and sustainer of the universe.   There is no God just propaganda and agenda's, it's amazing that the richest organisations in the world are religious organisations which allegedly promote christian values, but which are only achievable though if people part with their hard earn cash.

Are you telling me there wasn't a virgin birth?? No way, it said it in the biggest selling book of all time, bound to be true ffs

Quote from: deiseach on January 03, 2014, 02:05:34 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 02:01:10 PM
Yeah I'd say I am still a closet pape then, although the use of incense at times pisses me off.

It's rare you'll hear talk of lapsed Protestants.

Try Mondello

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 04, 2014, 07:26:12 PM

Quote from: deiseach on January 03, 2014, 02:05:34 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 03, 2014, 02:01:10 PM
Yeah I'd say I am still a closet pape then, although the use of incense at times pisses me off.

It's rare you'll hear talk of lapsed Protestants.

Try Mondello

Genius, Best line ever!