I have never been more convinced of the utter irrelevance of the GAA media than I am right now.
I'd only ever get a paper at the weekend and it's largely just to read the sports section.
I was reading Vincent Hogans article in the Indo this morning when I came across the following in the context of the Donegal v Mayo spat.
'All wonderful stuff if you're looking to put bums on seats in Croke Park tomorrow. Because right now, Gaelic football is a difficult sell. Maybe Dublin apart, the focus of its big guns seems to be on systematic fouling and the subjugation of attacking flair. The game has become graceless and, largely, ugly.'
On Championship Matters during the week they had a VT piece by some tabloid Gaa reporter along the lines of 'we need a two-tier championship, attendances will fall, gaelic football is doomed'.
I have reached a couple of conclusions, which I'd be interested to get other peoples perspective on.
a) The empirical evidence would seem to completely contradict the view that supporters are falling out of love with the game. Viewing figures are up and attendances are up.
b) There are a number of 'hurling men' in the media who never miss an opportunity to put the boot into football.
c) There are a number of journalists who are increasingly frustrated at their lack of access to the players. This seems to be more of an issue in football than hurling. Is there some lingering resentment as a result of this?
d) Football is quite simply an easy target. Its defenders lack the zeal of the hurling die-hards who feel genuinely threatened by the popularity of football, moreso than any other sport including soccer and rugby.
Every football fan I know is hugely excited about the extravaganza of football we have this weekend and the potential semi-final and final match-ups to come.
At work this week I've spent about 50% of my 'productive' time locked in deep conversation with Cork, Dublin, Donegal, Mayo and Cavan folk, both male and female; discussing tactics, line-ups, managerial rows etc.
And yet there is no sense of celebration or occasion in the media reportage.
Contrast this with the hurling coverage where every game is described with breathless adoration, regardless of how mediocre the contest has actually been.
There are obvious exceptions but I do feel there are too many journalists with their own agendas, who are trying to fit the facts to suit them.
Or, the alternative question is, 'Is Gaelic Football a difficult sell?'
Well said.
'Utter irrelevance' would be the correct term, nail on head Jinxy.
GAA journalism (in respect, particularly, of football), is the most difficult sell of the whole lot, and couldn't be arsed generally to cast even a cursory eye on the rot.
Something addressing cynical fouling - who knows if the black card is the answer - is needed but the game is hardy broken.
Interesting topic. I do know that a lot of the older generation seem to be falling out of love with football, or at least that's my experience, and this is perhaps being reflected in the print and TV media who are populated by many from that generation.
I do think football has some issues, cynical fouling, being a major one but it's still producing great games, drama, talking points and breathtaking skill. I think a lot of hurling folk feel obliged to speak positively about their game while many football people don't, this is perhaps a reflection of the spread of both games. Hurling is confined to a fairly small group and thus many feel very protective of the game and this is reflected in their attitude.
I always find plenty of positives in most games of football and would be hugely passionate about the game. I think it's a wonderful balance of the best aspects in teams sports and at it's best has no equal. However, the one thing I would say is we don't promote flair enough at any level and this is a mistake IMO. There is so much potential in football and I would like to see less lauding of 'work rate', 'endeavour' (though that's probably confined to Martin Carney) and the collective. We are probably squeezing the joy out of the game a bit and I hope we address this soon.
Nothing like a good old rant Jinxy :D
QuoteThere are a number of journalists who are increasingly frustrated at their lack of access to the players. This seems to be more of an issue in football than hurling. Is there some lingering resentment as a result of this?
This is definitely true though when they do get access they can produce some nice articles like this one in today's Indo
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/paul-flynn-i-know-how-privileged-i-am-to-play-for-dublin-29469602.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/paul-flynn-i-know-how-privileged-i-am-to-play-for-dublin-29469602.html)
You are 100% correct jinxy. Like yourself, I am also looking forward to a great weekend's football with more to come later in the month. I don't understand why hurling journalists need to knock football at every opportunity, but in fairness, Vincent Hogan would know very little about football anyway.
I just think the GAA print media have an over-inflated sense of their own importance.
They cloak their self-interest by saying 'If players don't do interviews, the kids won't have any heroes, blah blah blah.'
I don't think I ever read an interview with Mick Lyons in my entire life.
Kids watch their heroes, they don't read about them in the paper.
The game doesn't need to be sold to the masses via newspapers.
For the majority of people that will be in Croke Park this weekend, the GAA is something they actively participate in and interact with on a regular basis.
They're appreciation of, and interest in the sport is completely independent of the media and marketing.
That said, given the age we live in, the GAA should be more proactive in pushing weekends like this, without going down the sky sports route.
But again, that is nothing to do with the print media in particular and more to do with TV/radio coverage.
Speaking as somebody whose career has meandered into the freelance journalism area, there are a few things I'll throw out there. First of all, rightly or wrongly, the national papers want copy which is based around players' interviews. I don't quite understand it myself - I've little or no interest in reading quotes from players who are just going through the motions with lines about how the last game was tough, we expected it to be tough, the next one will be tougher, hard work, commitment, yada yada. It's not interesting. Equally I've no interest in Martin Breheny's opinion about how Carlow should just enter the Dublin championship and stop bothering us and the big teams should play each other in a champions league format for six months in succession, just as I'm well sure he'd have no interest in my views on anything.
I enjoy analytical pieces and I do enjoy stories that are fleshed out by interviews, but they have to be based around a real tale of interest. That can be Féile football, Junior hurling in Mayo or club camogie, but there are tales of interest everywhere, the kind of yarns you'd happily relate in the pub. They're great, but rare.
The problem is that papers don't want these, presumably because their readership doesn't want these. For whatever reason, an intercounty player from Tyrone saying he expects Monaghan to tackle him hard is news, but the breakdown on how Tyrone have conceded possession with forward foot passes and how Monaghan might exploit that is not. I can't understand this, but it's how it is. Possibly Des Cahill and Pat Spillane were right when they said that the GAA punter doesn't want analysis, he wants entertainment.
Yes, access to players is a huge issue - however I won't say it's terrible because I've no wish to engage in all that messing, so it's a world I bypass. I don't enjoy it and I'd prefer to leave it to lads that don't mind that approach. Also, I understand the double edged sword aspect, as evidenced by the whole Canning/Shefflin thing last year. Players used to talk to the media a lot more, but journalists aren't very quick to point out that their community played a big part in the deterioration of the relationship too. Any time I do talk to a player or manager in a phone interview, I always send them a copy of what I've written for email verification that this is what they meant to say. It means I've had good stuff that I've had to redact even though it was said, and it means that certain editors have got very annoyed at me when they heard about this - but if a player/manager is going to do me a favour and give me an interview, as far as I'm concerned, my loyalty is to him/her.
I'd agree with Jinxy's point that I get my GAA news by going to games, by being part of my club, by chatting over the phone with people who are involved in other parts of Ireland. I love the GAA as much as ever, but whoever the nationals are talking to with the stuff they write, it's not me. I suspect it's not many people on here.
Ah lads, come on, don't overcook the eulogising just because Vincent Hogan told a few truths that hit the reactive nerves of the 'real' GAA supporters who week after week travel hundreds of miles to see what is essentially a game of handball interspersed with 100 meter sprints. Then if anyone say's anything about it we are demonised.
Yesterday morning I convenienced what was a friend of mine by playing golf very early because he wanted to go to Croke Park. He said he was in Clondalkin taxing his car on Friday and a publican had a sign outside his pub saying "Free Pint for everyone if Bernard Brogan scores a goal" and I just said to him that he should have got a stick of chalk and added underneath " in the next five years" whereupon he took the hump. No disrespect to B.B. but this is typical of how football supporters try to, (in their own minds) turn players into Wayne Ruiney's. Not possible. Look at yesterday's game. Here we have a team who are fancied to win the All-Ireland and 14 of them are not able to put the ball down on the sod and kick it between the posts from 40 meters. Apart from the Cork full forward catching a few high balls there is little to remember about yesterday.
Simply put, it is not football but rather resembles a crowd of escaped lunatics running up and down the field at breakneck speed without any ball at all. It was when I was explaining this to my Tiger Woods wannabe that he walked off the course in a huff. And that is what is wrong, as soon as someone like Vincent Hogan expresses a genuine concern about what was once a great game in terms of attracting 'bums on seats' he is ostracised. I am sure if the lad in front of me in the pub yesterday who kept complaining about the amount of 'turnovers' Cork were getting reads Vincent's article there will be an EGM in Kiely's in Donnybrook.
70,018 there yesterday,so the bums on seats attraction is still prevalent.Also I have never heard the word "Jaysus" uttered as frequently in70 minutes,accruing from a plethora of missed goal opportunities by the boys in blue!
I don't think the average punter (and in summer there's mostly fair-weather fans anyway) cares about tactics,turnovers,the lack oF basic skills,ugly tactics etc.At the end of the day they want a big day out,a cause to support ( their county) and are more than happy just to see their county outscore the opposition with scant regard for how this is achieved.
Who gets to decide what is and what is not football. I was watching the Dublin Armagh AI final on TG4 and it was tripe, lads couldn't pass the ball 20m. I'd like some changes for sure and I don't like the overuse of hand pass but Its not an easy thing to legislate for.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 04, 2013, 07:20:37 AM
Ah lads, come on, don't overcook the eulogising just because Vincent Hogan told a few truths that hit the reactive nerves of the 'real' GAA supporters who week after week travel hundreds of miles to see what is essentially a game of handball interspersed with 100 meter sprints. Then if anyone say's anything about it we are demonised.
Yesterday morning I convenienced what was a friend of mine by playing golf very early because he wanted to go to Croke Park. He said he was in Clondalkin taxing his car on Friday and a publican had a sign outside his pub saying "Free Pint for everyone if Bernard Brogan scores a goal" and I just said to him that he should have got a stick of chalk and added underneath " in the next five years" whereupon he took the hump. No disrespect to B.B. but this is typical of how football supporters try to, (in their own minds) turn players into Wayne Ruiney's. Not possible. Look at yesterday's game. Here we have a team who are fancied to win the All-Ireland and 14 of them are not able to put the ball down on the sod and kick it between the posts from 40 meters. Apart from the Cork full forward catching a few high balls there is little to remember about yesterday.
Simply put, it is not football but rather resembles a crowd of escaped lunatics running up and down the field at breakneck speed without any ball at all. It was when I was explaining this to my Tiger Woods wannabe that he walked off the course in a huff. And that is what is wrong, as soon as someone like Vincent Hogan expresses a genuine concern about what was once a great game in terms of attracting 'bums on seats' he is ostracised. I am sure if the lad in front of me in the pub yesterday who kept complaining about the amount of 'turnovers' Cork were getting reads Vincent's article there will be an EGM in Kiely's in Donnybrook.
Yeah....... I don't think I'm going to bother with this one.
I have said for years that the so called great bastions of Ireland were under attack. The banks the government the church and now the venom is being directed at the gaa. Whether you are a joe brolly spillane or a Vincent hogan it is time to attack , can the gaa withstand the damage. I'm not so sure that whilst people are prepared to listen with half an open mind that half can be manipulated. Makes for interesting times
QuoteI have said for years that the so called great bastions of Ireland were under attack. The banks the government the church and now the venom is being directed at the gaa. Whether you are a joe brolly spillane or a Vincent hogan it is time to attack , can the gaa withstand the damage. I'm not so sure that whilst people are prepared to listen with half an open mind that half can be manipulated. Makes for interesting times
The banks, the government and the church behaved abysmally and deserved criticism and continue to deserve criticsm to the extent that they haven't changed. There is a problem in the GAA with unsporting play getting rewarded and they need to address this. The black card is an effort, it remains to be seen if it is enough.
I think the Sean Cavanagh style last man tackling shouldn't be included in the black card offences because then it won't stop, managers will just designate a few key players that they won't allow commit the tackle unless it's late on and they're closing out a game. In many ways a yellow is more of a punishment than a substitution in that situation. It certainly won't stop the boo boys being able to use cynical play as a stick to beat the GAA with.
It needs to be red with absolutely no room for referee interpretation.
Quote from: Syferus on August 04, 2013, 12:12:42 PM
I think the Sean Cavanagh style last man tackling shouldn't be included in the black card offences because then it won''t stop, managers will just designate a few keep players that they won't allow commit the tackle unless it's late on and they're closing out a game. In many ways a yellow is more of a punishment than a substitution in that situation. It certainly won't stop the boo boys being able to use cynical play as a stick to beat the GAA with.
It needs to be red with absolutely no room for referee interpretation.
I've heard this theory doing the rounds and I have to say I don't think it will be feasible for teams to be that machiavellian.
You still have to factor in the normal substitutions that will need to be made so this idea that you can just store up your cards doesn't seem feasible.
You are going to end up losing players.
That said, I always thought the sin bin worked well when it was tried in the league but of course the managers put an end to that.
The black card will do nothing at all reduce score-preventing fouls at the end of games. In what way is a ten-minute sin-bin, or whatever it is, a deterrent from pulling down a forward about to score a goal in the last minute when you're a point up?
What the black card will do is escalate the amount of cheating and feigning because now there's an even bigger reward for it. We've even invented a new category of foul to encourage it.
We'll see Hardy, and as I said at the time, I'd have liked to see diving or feigning injury added to the list of offences which merit a black card in the first place.
However, I do think the black card will limit the fouls that get on my nerves. The harmless looking, slow the ball down, break up the play fouls that teams have perfected over the last 10 years. The half forward dragging down the half back on a breakaway, and not even pausing as he runs back into his 'designated' defensive position. Those fouls are what I hate. I agree a black card, yellow card, red card or polka dot card will not stop a lad trying to prevent a goal by any means possible in a big game. All you can there is make sure the punishment is as fair as possible to the attacking team, but it will still happen in any case.
Quote from: Hardy on August 04, 2013, 12:45:30 PM
The black card will do nothing at all reduce score-preventing fouls at the end of games. In what way is a ten-minute sin-bin, or whatever it is, a deterrent from pulling down a forward about to score a goal in the last minute when you're a point up?
What the black card will do is escalate the amount of cheating and feigning because now there's an even bigger reward for it. We've even invented a new category of foul to encourage it.
There's no deterrent in any sport for that Hardy.
In rugby, teams will happily concede penalties and slow the ball down knowing the opposition need a last minute try.
In soccer, an outfield player can block a goal bound shot with his hand a la Suarez, knowing full well the penalty could be saved.
There's only so much you can do, but you have to do something.
An effective deterrent could be introduced, Jinxy. Or at least a somewhat effective one and one that won't be easily turned into an incentive for diving. Make any dragging down foul, anywhere on the field, anytime in the game, a 13-metre free. Maybe even make any such foul inside 20 metres a penalty. It's not easy to feign being dragged down in a rugby tackle.
AZ, perhaps the black card will deter the fouls you describe and that would be good. But it's being touted all over the media today as the solution for the end-of-game rugby tackle. It's not. And I fear that the new offence of blocking a run that has been introduced along with the black card will see a plague of feigning as lads go out of their way to be blocked exactly as you see now in rugby from lads (sorry, guys) chasing their own kick.
Quote from: Hardy on August 04, 2013, 01:38:43 PM
An effective deterrent could be introduced, Jinxy. Or at least a somewhat effective one and one that won't be easily turned into an incentive for diving. Make any dragging down foul, anywhere on the field, anytime in the game, a 13-metre free. Maybe even make any such foul inside 20 metres a penalty. It's not easy to feign being dragged down in a rugby tackle.
AZ, perhaps the black card will deter the fouls you describe and that would be good. But it's being touted all over the media today as the solution for the end-of-game rugby tackle. It's not. And I fear that the new offence of blocking a run that has been introduced along with the black card will see a plague of feigning as lads go out of their way to be blocked exactly as you see now in rugby from lads (sorry, guys) chasing their own kick.
As regard fluency and attacking play Basketball is a good comparison and how they deal with cynical fouls should be looked at. 5 personal fouls and you are out of the game. Commit a certain number of team fouls (4 per quarter) and a free throw is given for every foul committed. They even have allowances for the last 2 minutes if no team fouls have been committed.
I was just about to mention the basketball way of dealing with it myself Dinny. I'm skeptical about the black card myself
Quote from: Declan on August 04, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
I was just about to mention the basketball way of dealing with it myself Dinny. I'm skeptical about the black card myself
Yep a black card in the last few minutes will seen as worthwhile if it denies a goal chance.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 03, 2013, 12:33:03 PM
I have never been more convinced of the utter irrelevance of the GAA media than I am right now.
I'd only ever get a paper at the weekend and it's largely just to read the sports section.
I was reading Vincent Hogans article in the Indo this morning when I came across the following in the context of the Donegal v Mayo spat.
'All wonderful stuff if you're looking to put bums on seats in Croke Park tomorrow. Because right now, Gaelic football is a difficult sell. Maybe Dublin apart, the focus of its big guns seems to be on systematic fouling and the subjugation of attacking flair. The game has become graceless and, largely, ugly.'
On Championship Matters during the week they had a VT piece by some tabloid Gaa reporter along the lines of 'we need a two-tier championship, attendances will fall, gaelic football is doomed'.
I have reached a couple of conclusions, which I'd be interested to get other peoples perspective on.
a) The empirical evidence would seem to completely contradict the view that supporters are falling out of love with the game. Viewing figures are up and attendances are up.
b) There are a number of 'hurling men' in the media who never miss an opportunity to put the boot into football.
c) There are a number of journalists who are increasingly frustrated at their lack of access to the players. This seems to be more of an issue in football than hurling. Is there some lingering resentment as a result of this?
d) Football is quite simply an easy target. Its defenders lack the zeal of the hurling die-hards who feel genuinely threatened by the popularity of football, moreso than any other sport including soccer and rugby.
Every football fan I know is hugely excited about the extravaganza of football we have this weekend and the potential semi-final and final match-ups to come.
At work this week I've spent about 50% of my 'productive' time locked in deep conversation with Cork, Dublin, Donegal, Mayo and Cavan folk, both male and female; discussing tactics, line-ups, managerial rows etc.
And yet there is no sense of celebration or occasion in the media reportage.
Contrast this with the hurling coverage where every game is described with breathless adoration, regardless of how mediocre the contest has actually been.
There are obvious exceptions but I do feel there are too many journalists with their own agendas, who are trying to fit the facts to suit them.
Or, the alternative question is, 'Is Gaelic Football a difficult sell?'
I'm afraid it is Jinxy. I'm afraid it is.
What's more, the battle for the minds and hearts, and more importantly the wallets, is getting tougher all the time. Competition is coming from all quarters and chief amongst its rivals are the comparable field games; soccer and rugby.
Gaelic games lack an international dimension which puts it at a disadvantage compared to its main rivals. I fully accept that when you were a kid, you didn't need newspapers or any other media form to help you identify with your heroes.
But that was in the days before multichannel TV came along and all of the other forms of high tec advertising.
I think we've got to the stage where a line between what people, especially kids, can't tell the difference between what is going on around them and what they see on TV.
In the case of adults, you could add newspapers and fanzines to the mix.
Revenue from franchising is consequent on advertising and right now I'd bet the sale of Meath jerseys in Navan or Kells or wherever lags well behind those of Man UI, Arsenal and the likes. I'm saying this because I'd imaine meath jerseys, hats, stickers are espscially popular.
How many kids would you realistically expect to see wearing Meath colours in the off-season?
Same goes for every county in the land. The GAA needs publicity like Mayo needs Sam in order to survive and prosper. Okay, attendances at major games may well be up, due in part to advertising, but how many people contribute to the GAA in any shape or form when the cold winds blow or the rain keeps pissing down in Castlebar, Castleblayney or Castelbaldwin for that matter?
(Don't forget Pollawaddy, Pullathomas or Pullronaghan either.)
Most heads here, including me, are long time GAA followers and tend to look at thing with tunnel vision so we don't necessarily see what the general public does.
Put it another way, anyone here can give off steam about O'Rourke, Brolly or Auntie Pat or any other well-paid waffler but as long as the viewing figures are favourable, their jobs won't be in danger.
They're there to entertain and not to preach to the converted. From a GAA perspective, bad publicity is better than no publicity and I'd prefer to have Vincent Hogan writing pure bullsugar about my beloved Mayo than having the same Vincent Hogan writing SFA about them.
.....
I'm afraid the foregoing is a bit scattered due to circumstances outside my immediate control:
The dander is up, the jersey is on and I'm about to sally forth and head for my local to give them pesky Dubs something to think about.
Aaaah, the GAA; there nowt to beat it! ;D
Still think it's a hard sell Lar?! ;D
Quote from: Jinxy on August 05, 2013, 12:05:59 AM
Still think it's a hard sell Lar?! ;D
I sure do and the going is not getting easier either.
For one thing, we are talking about an amateur sport played at a professional level. That's brings unique problems in it train and for another, the principal rivals for the public's attention, soccer and rugby, have far greater resources and those sports are marketed in a professional manner.
It's fair to sat Man Utd, rakes in more money in a week than the GAA does in a year.
Crucially, the vast bulk of its income is coming through indirect channels (product endorsements, TV contracts and the sales of franchised paraphernalia, e.g., scarves, banners, flags etc.
I'm told there are phenomenal sales of Ipad, PSP etc games as well.
Only a tiny fraction of its income comes from spectators paying at the turnstiles. In the case of the GAA, the opposite is the case. It's a Goliath versus David scenario all over again but this time there are countless Goliaths and only one poor little David.
In a nutshell, the GAA needs all the publicity it can get, from any quarter, to keep its place on the public stage.
It sells sweet FA hats, jerseys etc which is a pity. All the stuff you see on match days is sold be private individuals and not a cent winds up in GAA hands.
I don't know if anything can be done about this but if you or I try to flog any Man U jerseys or player dolls or whatever, we'd get a nasty letter from some solicitor before a week was out.
It's men v boys in the paraphernalia sales league.
I don't like Vincent Hogan either; I'd put him in somewhere between a jackass and a laitcheko if I were doing personal critique of sports writers but his opinions get more public attention than mine. BTW, not all of his readers come from a GAA background so he can't be expected to see things the way we do.
In a somewhat similar way, Joe Brolly won't lose his job with RTE as long as he generates controversy and I don't think the blazers at HQ would want to see him dumped either.
My great pity is that the GAA must keep pace with its professional competitors if it is to stay in the race. A way must be found to grant the media access to the players. Other sports don't have the problem of amateur players being subjected to professional demands.
The GAA must keep abreast of the times we are in: damned if you do but double damned if you don't.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 05, 2013, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 05, 2013, 12:05:59 AM
Still think it's a hard sell Lar?! ;D
I sure do and the going is not getting easier either.
For one thing, we are talking about an amateur sport played at a professional level. That's brings unique problems in it train and for another, the principal rivals for the public's attention, soccer and rugby, have far greater resources and those sports are marketed in a professional manner.
It's fair to sat Man Utd, rakes in more money in a week than the GAA does in a year.
Crucially, the vast bulk of its income is coming through indirect channels (product endorsements, TV contracts and the sales of franchised paraphernalia, e.g., scarves, banners, flags etc.
I'm told there are phenomenal sales of Ipad, PSP etc games as well.
Only a tiny fraction of its income comes from spectators paying at the turnstiles. In the case of the GAA, the opposite is the case. It's a Goliath versus David scenario all over again but this time there are countless Goliaths and only one poor little David.
In a nutshell, the GAA needs all the publicity it can get, from any quarter, to keep its place on the public stage.
It sells sweet FA hats, jerseys etc which is a pity. All the stuff you see on match days is sold be private individuals and not a cent winds up in GAA hands.
I don't know if anything can be done about this but if you or I try to flog any Man U jerseys or player dolls or whatever, we'd get a nasty letter from some solicitor before a week was out.
It's men v boys in the paraphernalia sales league.
I don't like Vincent Hogan either; I'd put him in somewhere between a jackass and a laitcheko if I were doing personal critique of sports writers but his opinions get more public attention than mine. BTW, not all of his readers come from a GAA background so he can't be expected to see things the way we do.
In a somewhat similar way, Joe Brolly won't lose his job with RTE as long as he generates controversy and I don't think the blazers at HQ would want to see him dumped either.
My great pity is that the GAA must keep pace with its professional competitors if it is to stay in the race. A way must be found to grant the media access to the players. Other sports don't have the problem of amateur players being subjected to professional demands.
The GAA must keep abreast of the times we are in: damned if you do but double damned if you don't.
I dunno Lar.
My question was 'Is it a hard sell?' to which you responded 'Yes'.
But your key point seems to be we are not selling it well enough, which is a different issue I think.
Lads just to get back on the original topic I was going to start a thread on the sheer obsession with negativity in the TV coverage of football.
First thing TV3 want to talk about yesterday when Kerry are waltzing past Cavan is a peno shout that was hardly a major talking point. Then when the lads do want to talk they are to ads.
RTE are as bad in terms of the football and always want to go straight shitin' on about a dodgy decision or some other 'controversy'. It's never fair play or anything, let's have a look at the point X or Y scored from the sideline.
Just far too critical and we can't blame the hurling boys for that. Always this things of what is wrong in the game, the format needs changing, the rules do, etc, etc.
The hurling analysts love the game and you don't heat them spouting on all the time about what is wrong.
It's quite simple really.
Controversy is ratings gold.
The Brolly tirade is a perfect example.
The whole country was talking about it, and it will be remembered long after people have forgotten who Tyrone were even playing.
It makes for great TV unfortunately.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 05, 2013, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 05, 2013, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 05, 2013, 12:05:59 AM
Still think it's a hard sell Lar?! ;D
I sure do and the going is not getting easier either.
For one thing, we are talking about an amateur sport played at a professional level. That's brings unique problems in it train and for another, the principal rivals for the public's attention, soccer and rugby, have far greater resources and those sports are marketed in a professional manner.
It's fair to sat Man Utd, rakes in more money in a week than the GAA does in a year.
Crucially, the vast bulk of its income is coming through indirect channels (product endorsements, TV contracts and the sales of franchised paraphernalia, e.g., scarves, banners, flags etc.
I'm told there are phenomenal sales of Ipad, PSP etc games as well.
Only a tiny fraction of its income comes from spectators paying at the turnstiles. In the case of the GAA, the opposite is the case. It's a Goliath versus David scenario all over again but this time there are countless Goliaths and only one poor little David.
In a nutshell, the GAA needs all the publicity it can get, from any quarter, to keep its place on the public stage.
It sells sweet FA hats, jerseys etc which is a pity. All the stuff you see on match days is sold be private individuals and not a cent winds up in GAA hands.
I don't know if anything can be done about this but if you or I try to flog any Man U jerseys or player dolls or whatever, we'd get a nasty letter from some solicitor before a week was out.
It's men v boys in the paraphernalia sales league.
I don't like Vincent Hogan either; I'd put him in somewhere between a jackass and a laitcheko if I were doing personal critique of sports writers but his opinions get more public attention than mine. BTW, not all of his readers come from a GAA background so he can't be expected to see things the way we do.
In a somewhat similar way, Joe Brolly won't lose his job with RTE as long as he generates controversy and I don't think the blazers at HQ would want to see him dumped either.
My great pity is that the GAA must keep pace with its professional competitors if it is to stay in the race. A way must be found to grant the media access to the players. Other sports don't have the problem of amateur players being subjected to professional demands.
The GAA must keep abreast of the times we are in: damned if you do but double damned if you don't.
I dunno Lar.
My question was 'Is it a hard sell?' to which you responded 'Yes'.
But your key point seems to be we are not selling it well enough, which is a different issue I think.
In your OP I guess you were expecting your readers to respond with an emphatic "No" to your closing question.
In other words, the GAA is doing fine aand doesn't need the likes of Vincent Hogan to promote its cause:
We're doing' just grand as we are and don't welcome outside interference, thank you very much.
Nothing personal me oul' buddy but I fundamentally disagree with you.
We are an amateur organisation competing with professional rivals for the public's attention. That in itself causes unique problems- for starters; soccer and rugby are prepared to allow the media virtually unrestricted access to their players. They welcome such intrusions. That just isn't possible where amateur players are concerned.
Both have the glam factor of international competition to help spread their respective message; the GAA does not.
All in all, I think the GAA is doing a commendable job of displaying its wares to the public but it needs all the publicity it can get. (That includes Vincent Hogan.)
We can't have it both ways; the media isn't obliged to follow the GAA's agenda and to those in that business controversy is indeed ratings gold.
Our beloved association can't have the proverbial cake and eat it so negative reports by the likes of Vincent Hogan are to be expected.
In any even, I find nothing wrong with his assessment that "......Maybe Dublin apart, the focus of its big guns seems to be on systematic fouling and the subjugation of attacking flair. The game has become graceless and, largely, ugly.'
Isn't that the major gripe on this board right now?
Dublin' s positive approach is a recent phenomenon; remember the Dubs V Donegal semi in 2011 when the final scoreline was 0-8 to -06 in Dublin's favour?
Can the GAA prosper without intrusion from the media or can it get by with the style of play so prevalent at the moment?
On both counts, it can on me posterior! ;D
Lar, you seem to be misunderstanding me completely.
'Gaelic football is a hard sell' in the context of the OP refers to the product itself being poor, and 'consumers' being turned off by the quality/entertainment value of the modern game.
As far as I am concerned, the evidence suggests otherwise.
But, you can ignore this post like all the others and go off on a rant about the GAA not marketing the game properly if it makes you feel better. ;D
p.s. Using the Dublin v Donegal game in 2011 as evidence to support your assertion that Dublin were a negative team until recently is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 06, 2013, 09:20:57 AM
We are an amateur organisation competing with professional rivals for the public's attention. That in itself causes unique problems- for starters; soccer and rugby are prepared to allow the media virtually unrestricted access to their players. They welcome such intrusions. That just isn't possible where amateur players are concerned.
I just saw this bit now Lar.
That statement is simply not true.
Media access to soccer and rugby players has never been more restricted and controlled.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 06, 2013, 09:51:03 AM
Lar, you seem to be misunderstanding me completely.
'Gaelic football is a hard sell' in the context of the OP refers to the product itself being poor, and 'consumers' being turned off by the quality/entertainment value of the modern game.
As far as I am concerned, the evidence suggests otherwise.
But, you can ignore this post like all the others and go off on a rant about the GAA not marketing the game properly if it makes you feel better. ;D
p.s. Using the Dublin v Donegal game in 2011 as evidence to support your assertion that Dublin were a negative team until recently is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
Bloody hell!!
So I'm misunderstanding you completely, am I?
Quote'Gaelic football is a hard sell' in the context of the OP refers to the product itself being poor, and 'consumers' being turned off by the quality/entertainment value of the modern game.
This board alone carries more complaints/gripes/whinges about the prevalence of cynical fouling than about any other aspect of the modern game.
Vincent Hogan thinks
"...the focus of its big guns seems to be on systematic fouling and the subjugation of attacking flair. "You don't agree apparently.
I'll go by the evidence of what's to be found on this board to back my case about the focus on the systemic fouling approach. I believe there is overwhelming evidence to suggest you are on a loser on this one.
What about the "subjugation of "attacking flair?"
Have you read what Colm Cooper has to say n the subject?
He states that a player like him wouldn't have a chance of making it at senior intercounty scene if he was starting out. (Or something like that.)
He'd be horsed out of it because of his physique if he wasn't already an established player.
Has Colm Cooper got attacking flair in abundance? I sure think so.
Who should I believe: one of the most gifted players of modern times or a bloody Meath man?
QuoteBut, you can ignore this post like all the others and go off on a rant about the GAA not marketing the game properly if it makes you feel better.
Oh, I can; can I?
Quote"All in all, I think the GAA is doing a commendable job of displaying its wares to the public but it needs all the publicity it can get."
So sucks to you; where's the rant there?
Quotep.s. Using the Dublin v Donegal game in 2011 as evidence to support your assertion that Dublin were a negative team until recently is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
I am going to extreme lengths to put my arguments in idiot-proof language and you are playing the man not the ball.
You haven't provided a shred of corroborative evidence to back up your own, well, ridiculous claim. There's plenty of stuff in online archives to suggest otherwise.
Dublin were well-known and condemned on all sides for packing their defence and concentrating on keeping opponents' scores down rather than using their present approach.
How' bout an oul' quote from the likes of Brolly or Spillane; not to mention O'Rourke or indeed the rest of humanity to back your argument? Try any year between, say, '08 and '11.
How can a score of 0-8 in an AI semi be taken as evidence of a positive style of play?
I'm not saying you're thick or any thing like that but you are definitely obtuse.
Oh and by the way;
Quote"That statement is simply not true.
Media access to soccer and rugby players has never been more restricted and controlled."
You're way off the mark, as usual.
The media can interview just about any goddamn player they like but they can't set the agenda when they do, "which is a different issue I think," as your good self might put it.
Now; over to you.
(PS. If you think I'm still sore about '96, you're bloody well right for once.) ;D
How many Weetabix did you have this morning Lar?
Quote from: Jinxy on August 06, 2013, 01:09:28 PM
How many Weetabix did you have this morning Lar?
Huh? Bloody typical Meath response; go for the man and not the ball.
How 'bout answering some of my questions first?
I'm at work, don't have time now.
I'll get to YOU later.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 06, 2013, 02:08:03 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 06, 2013, 01:09:28 PM
How many Weetabix did you have this morning Lar?
Huh? Bloody typical Meath response; go for the man and not the ball.
How 'bout answering some of my questions first?
They call that a 'Sean Cavanagh' these days, Lar.
Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2013, 02:23:36 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 06, 2013, 02:08:03 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 06, 2013, 01:09:28 PM
How many Weetabix did you have this morning Lar?
Huh? Bloody typical Meath response; go for the man and not the ball.
How 'bout answering some of my questions first?
They call that a 'Sean Cavanagh' these days, Lar.
Ah, FFS, I waiting waiting for his next move to throw that one at him. ;D