http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21147279
Just read the above report, surely this is some sort of sick joke?
Quote from: God14 on January 24, 2013, 10:44:11 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21147279
Just read the above report, surely this is some sort of sick joke?
Sick joke, explain? this industry is really going to take off in the next few years creating jobs for construction, logistics and green environmental companies
It will create jobs for construction for a short while. But these turbines will be there for many years after that without any real benefit to Ireland.
Surely there is enough land in England & Wales for them to build & use their own wind turbines - on their own land!!
QuoteSurely there is enough land in England & Wales for them to build & use their own wind turbines - on their own land!!
What land does the fuel come from that you put into your car or to heat your house?
Quote from: God14 on January 24, 2013, 12:15:38 PM
Surely there is enough land in England & Wales for them to build & use their own wind turbines - on their own land!!
Dead right. We should stop exporting beef and butter and bacon to them too. Let them rear their own feckin cattle and pigs and leave us out of it. Problem is, they might retaliate by refusing to let us watch Coronation Street and Manchester United. Where would we be then?
I hope they are looking for sub contractors to throw a few cables in.!
Quote from: Hardy on January 24, 2013, 12:27:43 PM
Problem is, they might retaliate by refusing to let us watch Coronation Street and Manchester United. Where would we be then?
Hear, hear!*
*
[excluding following Liverpool]
Multi nationals employ people who pay tax and the odd time pay corporation tax themselves into the exchequer. These wind farms will have very little sustainable long term employment, 100 people max, so it all depends on the tax take from the exported electricity if its a good thing for Ireland..
What about the long term damage to our environment lads? These things are 180meters tall, and for the project to work there will be loads of them!!
Yes - a small number of people will earn a living wage out of the proposal, but what impact will these windmills have on the people who live in the area?
Exporting beef & butter doesnt damage the environment lads so its not fair to make such a comparison
How would you like to live in an area where they are been erected? These things would dwarf those erected in Co. Derry, and they are bloody awful looking and have certainly devalued the area
Quote from: God14 on January 24, 2013, 01:01:48 PM
What about the long term damage to our environment lads? These things are 180meters tall, and for the project to work there will be loads of them!!
Yes - a small number of people will earn a living wage out of the proposal, but what impact will these windmills have on the people who live in the area?
Exporting beef & butter doesnt damage the environment lads so its not fair to make such a comparison
How would you like to live in an area where they are been erected? These things would dwarf those erected in Co. Derry, and they are bloody awful looking and have certainly devalued the area
Are these bogs not massive, I didn't think there'd be too many people living in and around them? What's the lifespan on these things?
Quote from: God14 on January 24, 2013, 01:01:48 PM
What about the long term damage to our environment lads? These things are 180meters tall, and for the project to work there will be loads of them!!
Yes - a small number of people will earn a living wage out of the proposal, but what impact will these windmills have on the people who live in the area?
Exporting beef & butter doesnt damage the environment lads so its not fair to make such a comparison
How would you like to live in an area where they are been erected? These things would dwarf those erected in Co. Derry, and they are bloody awful looking and have certainly devalued the area
Wind turbines don't cause environmental damage - the only perceived negative impact they have is visual; they do produce some noise impacts locally too I suppose. Planning tends to remove that impact through siting appropriately.
Production of beef and butter for export, through agriculture, on the other hand has several significant impacts on our environment - recognised by the legislation in place for nearly 20 years regulating their operation and management. I would imagine that the export of green electricity would have much less impact on our environment than agricultural exports.
That said, much of our electricity is currently imported from Britain via the interconnector - I understand that much of it comes from nuclear power. I'm presuming that most of this new green power will be exported also via the interconnector, no? I personally think it's a very good day for Ireland's economy.
With most of these developments an Environmental Impact Statement is carried out.
As mL said plenty of ghost estates around the country are an environmental blight with blocked up sewers, fly tipping, hoarding falling down and vermin running around the place.
If your that worried about the environment do something useful and write to your local TD about your nearest ghost estate which is most probably in the condition I've outlined and quit complaining about something that is productive for the country.
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 24, 2013, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 24, 2013, 01:01:48 PM
What about the long term damage to our environment lads? These things are 180meters tall, and for the project to work there will be loads of them!!
Yes - a small number of people will earn a living wage out of the proposal, but what impact will these windmills have on the people who live in the area?
Exporting beef & butter doesnt damage the environment lads so its not fair to make such a comparison
How would you like to live in an area where they are been erected? These things would dwarf those erected in Co. Derry, and they are bloody awful looking and have certainly devalued the area
Wind turbines don't cause environmental damage - the only perceived negative impact they have is visual; they do produce some noise impacts locally too I suppose. Planning tends to remove that impact through siting appropriately.
Production of beef and butter for export, through agriculture, on the other hand has several significant impacts on our environment - recognised by the legislation in place for nearly 20 years regulating their operation and management. I would imagine that the export of green electricity would have much less impact on our environment than agricultural exports.
That said, much of our electricity is currently imported from Britain via the interconnector - I understand that much of it comes from nuclear power. I'm presuming that most of this new green power will be exported also via the interconnector, no? I personally think it's a very good day for Ireland's economy.
thats similar to my own view on this also.
ok the jobs created might not all be long term - but any flurry of work for people and a financial injection into all levels of the economy is great - until more longer term work comes back this way for the ex construction/manufacturing workers.
remember a couple of decades ago, there was a lot of seasonal workers- full time long term employment was not always readily available.
Good news for Irish economy. Shit load of steel and concrete needed in the foundation for one of them turbines. Technology is hardly new, the Dutch have been at it for ages. Would like to see more private housing projects done in this manner, with a facility to sell excess to the national grid. Renewable energy is the way to go.
Where we live there is a ton of turbines about the place, neighbors fight with neighbors about the noise from these things, that and they claim to be getting sick from them and that they are unsightly, some are built close to their neighbors home/land and it is a very divisive issue.
The farmers that embrace the turbines get paid very well for these things to be placed on their land, a lot of farmers will not let them near the place and it is almost weekly that you hear of farmers going at it over the safety/noise etc of these things.
To me if they want to build them, fine, let them build them offshore.
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 24, 2013, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: God14 on January 24, 2013, 01:01:48 PM
What about the long term damage to our environment lads? These things are 180meters tall, and for the project to work there will be loads of them!!
Yes - a small number of people will earn a living wage out of the proposal, but what impact will these windmills have on the people who live in the area?
Exporting beef & butter doesnt damage the environment lads so its not fair to make such a comparison
How would you like to live in an area where they are been erected? These things would dwarf those erected in Co. Derry, and they are bloody awful looking and have certainly devalued the area
Wind turbines don't cause environmental damage - the only perceived negative impact they have is visual; they do produce some noise impacts locally too I suppose. Planning tends to remove that impact through siting appropriately.
Production of beef and butter for export, through agriculture, on the other hand has several significant impacts on our environment - recognised by the legislation in place for nearly 20 years regulating their operation and management. I would imagine that the export of green electricity would have much less impact on our environment than agricultural exports.
That said, much of our electricity is currently imported from Britain via the interconnector - I understand that much of it comes from nuclear power. I'm presuming that most of this new green power will be exported also via the interconnector, no? I personally think it's a very good day for Ireland's economy.
But you don't list any benefits. Where is the information about the benefits to Ireland's economy? Where are the details of the proposal that leads one to have a reasonable opinion, not an assumption.
AFICS, there is an agreement to examine a proposal to allow non-Irish companies to erect hundreds of huge turbines on Irish land, spread out over 5 counties, the turbines and the power generated are owned by the non-Irish companies, the power generated is for export to England
AFAICS, Ireland gets the permanent pain that the English don't want, but England gets all the benefit.
I'm told the Chinese are very interesting in Ireland and the green energy potential here.
Should 'we' on the Island of Ireland with the help of these multi national companies not start with providing cheaper electricity from these turbines, to Ireland first and then sell off the surplus on the energy markets hence making taxable profits too. Or is that too much of a communist idea. Long term cheap clean electricity combined with short boost for the economy in construction phase, best of both worlds, no?
Difficult one this. It would be great if Ireland could export electricity, especially green energy. On the other hand, these things look awful and you're talking about sensitive habitats such as bogs (and Ireland's remaining pristine bogs are internationally important) and impacts on birds and the impact of noise on people and wildlife.
But there is no means of power generation that has no impact at all (solar?). Nuclear is the way to go, IMO, especially in a geologically stable area like Ireland.
I would think it would be more the case of the brits sayin to Enda..... you owe us money which you will never be able to pay back so we are going to exploit you. Ok rite good.
I think it must be a very good deal for Britain - now has this deal been done... hmmmm! Time to see if there are similarities between Enda and Bertie.
Possibly much will be made of a proposed tax, paid here on all income earned from exporting the energy, like a VAT on total sales.
Then when it's all set up, we find the tax will only be on profits and they wouldn't have to pay that tax until their profits had paid for the set-up costs.
That's called, being well and truly 'Trumped'.
whats the story with electricity through the interconnector? - i was under the impression that quite a lot of power comes uk->ireland currently, so ireland is a net consumer on it.
QuotePossibly much will be made of a proposed tax, paid here on all income earned from exporting the energy, like a VAT on total sales.
How can you have a tax on this project and not on other wind projects or generators?
I'd say it would generate feck all tax.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 24, 2013, 03:42:38 PM
I'm told the Chinese are very interesting in Ireland and the green energy potential here.
Cool, we should sell them some of our wind. At a good price though.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2013, 06:54:54 PM
QuotePossibly much will be made of a proposed tax, paid here on all income earned from exporting the energy, like a VAT on total sales.
How can you have a tax on this project and not on other wind projects or generators?
I'd say it would generate feck all tax.
As I said, it would generate little or no company tax income.
And are you saying Wind Farm companies are not liable for corporation tax?
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:34:41 PM
Possibly much will be made of a proposed tax, paid here on all income earned from exporting the energy, like a VAT on total sales.
Then when it's all set up, we find the tax will only be on profits and they wouldn't have to pay that tax until their profits had paid for the set-up costs.
That's called, being well and truly 'Trumped'.
and dont forget that company may make its taxable profits "offshore"
Possible result. Those who own the land get rich, those who facilitate the scheme get rich and those who own the company get rich. And another little bit of Ireland gets sent over the water. "The country is that bad even the wind is emigrating"
England is one of the most densely populated countries in the world. It is going to have real problems moving to low or no carbon.
Quote from: nifan on January 24, 2013, 06:25:02 PM
whats the story with electricity through the interconnector? -
It's newly built, it's high capacity and electricity runs both ways.
Co-financed by the EU.
Runs from Dublin to near Liverpool
Quotei was under the impression that quite a lot of power comes uk->ireland currently, so ireland is a net consumer on it.
AFAIR, one year, Ireland imported 10% of its electricity from Britain.
QuoteAnd are you saying Wind Farm companies are not liable for corporation tax?
No, they are liable like anyone else. But their profits might be modest enough after capital allowances etc.
I for one am all for renewable energy, and have no problem with wind turbines as long as they are generating electricity for our home market. Sadly, as pointed out above, this project will not supply us with cheap electricity as it is all going to the UK market.
In the UK there is severe opposition to wind turbines and compared to Ireland, there is very few of them dotted across the countryside. The win win is for a small handful of people, and the average Joe will see feck all benefit. I fell that this is another Shell operation whereby our natural resources are given away for a small handful of pennies that will come in via tax.
As pointed out above, Ireland may have to do whats it's told by the UK and further afield due to the large debts.
Typical of the gombeen men in Ireland,selling our wind to help the brits. ;D
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:34:41 PM
Possibly much will be made of a proposed tax, paid here on all income earned from exporting the energy, like a VAT on total sales.
Then when it's all set up, we find the tax will only be on profits and they wouldn't have to pay that tax until their profits had paid for the set-up costs.
That's called, being well and truly 'Trumped'.
You think they should pay taxes on their costs?
Quote from: Hardy on January 24, 2013, 10:10:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:34:41 PM
Possibly much will be made of a proposed tax, paid here on all income earned from exporting the energy, like a VAT on total sales.
Then when it's all set up, we find the tax will only be on profits and they wouldn't have to pay that tax until their profits had paid for the set-up costs.
That's called, being well and truly 'Trumped'.
You think they should pay taxes on their costs?
I think companies should pay taxes based on their income.
Quote from: God14 on January 24, 2013, 01:01:48 PM
What about the long term damage to our environment lads? These things are 180meters tall, and for the project to work there will be loads of them!!
Yes - a small number of people will earn a living wage out of the proposal, but what impact will these windmills have on the people who live in the area?
Exporting beef & butter doesnt damage the environment lads so its not fair to make such a comparison
How would you like to live in an area where they are been erected? These things would dwarf those erected in Co. Derry, and they are bloody awful looking and have certainly devalued the area
They're no worse than some of the ESB's old architecture on the Bog of Allen from yesteryear.
Allenwood
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6funKwVAvWE/0.jpg)
Portarlington
(http://www.offalyhistory.com/content_images/articles/portarlington_power-station.jpg)
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2013, 11:48:49 AM
It will create jobs for construction for a short while. But these turbines will be there for many years after that without any real benefit to Ireland.
Selling wind to the Brits sounds like a good deal to me.
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 24, 2013, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2013, 11:48:49 AM
It will create jobs for construction for a short while. But these turbines will be there for many years after that without any real benefit to Ireland.
Selling wind to the Brits sounds like a good deal to me.
Who is selling the wind energy to the Brits?
We? ;D
Lads the Gherkin in London is 180meters tall. These giant wind turbines are also 180meters tall.
The proposals are that they install 40 of these things in the midlands. Have any of ye visited London? The Gherkin is huge - imagine forty of them scattered across the midlands??
If they were powering Irish homes & the Irish economy I could maybe lend some sort of support to the idea - but they are not!
There is a windmill stump that sits above Poyntzpass in County Armagh. The windmill was built in the 17th or 18th century and the stump is a source of great pride. There was a talk about it at the local history society a few years ago and a walk around it is planned for this summer.
In two hundred years times these new windmills could also be held in the same esteem being the first devices that saved the country from going bankrupt
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 10:19:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 24, 2013, 10:10:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:34:41 PM
Possibly much will be made of a proposed tax, paid here on all income earned from exporting the energy, like a VAT on total sales.
Then when it's all set up, we find the tax will only be on profits and they wouldn't have to pay that tax until their profits had paid for the set-up costs.
That's called, being well and truly 'Trumped'.
You think they should pay taxes on their costs?
I think companies should pay taxes based on their income.
Seriously?!?!
Jeez what a lot of panic!!
Viridian, for years responsible for the majority of elements of electricity in NI, was owned by a Bahrain-based private equity company, not owned by locals.
We already export electricity to Scotland through the Moyle Interconnector.
The windfarms, I understand, will be subject to the same planning regulations as any other windfarm in Ireland, which are pretty strict.
Old John's windfarm down in Limerick that he started last year won't be paying any taxes to the Irish state for a few years as it has capital allowances (or whatever they are across the border) and other incentives to reduce taxable profit. (I am using an actual example here of a project I worked on). So Main Street's point is valid, but is the same for any start-up, Irish-owned or not!!
Electricity sale is controlled by SEM-O in Ireland and electricity is sold onto the grid at market prices and heavily regulated. Unless there is some agreement that varies significantly from current operators in the market, I see no difference in selling to the UK than selling to Ireland, unless the Irish govt is putting on a premium so the UK can make ground towards hitting their green target, which may be the case.
As a final point, I actually don't mind the look of turbines! They're a feature, albeit a relatively new one. I drove from LA to Palm Springs in Sep and there was a clump of 3,218 turbines (just googled) near Palm Springs, and they just served to act as a talking point. If it's good enough for the Yanks...
Quote
Electricity sale is controlled by SEM-O in Ireland and electricity is sold onto the grid at market prices and heavily regulated.
I am open to correction, but I think this project isn't connected to the Irish Grid in the usual way, but is going to be connected straight into an inter-connector.
I'm not opposed to wind energy, but there is a reasonable point that this project puts the visual intrusion, bird slicing etc here while the benefits are derived elsewhere.
I like the look of turbines! But I would be worried about potential noise if I lived near them. Also I'd be worried about what happens if their useful life comes to an end.
But its just like any other commercial venture. Whoever owns the land will lease or sell it and obtain taxable income from it. Then there'll be the risk taker, who puts money up in the hope that the venture becomes profitable. He could lose money - hard luck to him, or he could gain money - well done to him and the country gets taxes on his profits. But I think to suggest tax should be paid on gross income is just ludicrous, and I can see no basis for saying this is something that might "save the country".
2 important questions!!
Would there not be advantages in living beside them during a warm summer day ie. keep a nice fanned breeze about the place.
If they put one in the holylands will the dodgy landlords tap the power?
This debate has some parallels with the siting of new prisons, refuse dumps, resettlement of sex offenders, town centre by-passes, recycling factorys, travelling people gypsy caravan parks etc etc.
Basically, it is okay but not in my backyard.
Quote from: Orior on January 25, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
This debate has some parallels with the siting of new prisons, refuse dumps, resettlement of sex offenders, town centre by-passes, recycling factorys, travelling people gypsy caravan parks etc etc.
Basically, it is okay but not in my backyard.
Good old NIMBYs up there with DINKYs.
Programme on TV3 about this topic this evening, had a search and found this thread.
So funny things written here.
Beef is actually much more detrimental to the environment than most exports.
Some taxes will arise from this but the main benefits come from an interconnector paid for by the UK and a royalty/levy from the UK on all electricity sold from these wind farms.
From the TV3 show thought the farmers who lived beside the Lisheen wind farm made interesting comparison to electricity poles
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 25, 2013, 11:17:47 AM
Quote from: Orior on January 25, 2013, 11:05:56 AM
This debate has some parallels with the siting of new prisons, refuse dumps, resettlement of sex offenders, town centre by-passes, recycling factorys, travelling people gypsy caravan parks etc etc.
Basically, it is okay but not in my backyard.
Good old NIMBYs up there with DINKYs.
worse still are the NODAMs and BANANAs
We all use electricity but don't want the infrastructure to provide it, we all use mobile phones but don't want the masts that make them possible etc etc.
I'll always remember the day the "concerned resident" called to the door wanting me to sign a petition to try and stop a phone mast being erected on a nearby hill. He was half way through his spiel of spin when his phone rang.
I didn't sign his petition nor do I attend any meetings objecting to wind turbines.
And I hope Laythrum gets fracked as well.
QuoteWe all use electricity but don't want the infrastructure to provide it
England uses electricity, but want us to have the infrastructure to provide it.
Quotewe all use mobile phones but don't want the masts that make them possible etc etc.
All too true. The average public "representative" is more likely to oppose a mast that try and have 4G brought to the area.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 07, 2013, 11:20:43 AM
We all use electricity but don't want the infrastructure to provide it, we all use mobile phones but don't want the masts that make them possible etc etc.
I'll always remember the day the "concerned resident" calle dot the door wanting me to sign a petition to try and stop a phone mast being erected on a nearby hill. He was half way through his spiel of spin when his phone rang.
I didn't sign his petition nor do I attend any meetings objecting to wind turbines.
And I hope Laythrum gets fracked as well.
My post of the day. In the draw for post of the week on Saturday night after the Lotto.
You can take our wind but you cant take our freeeeeeeeeeedom!!!!!!!!! oh wait.....
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2013, 11:24:50 AM
QuoteWe all use electricity but don't want the infrastructure to provide it
England uses electricity, but want us to have the infrastructure to provide it.
Which we will get hold of after the life of the contract with the UK along with a payment for the power transferred during the contract
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 07, 2013, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2013, 11:24:50 AM
QuoteWe all use electricity but don't want the infrastructure to provide it
England uses electricity, but want us to have the infrastructure to provide it.
Which we will get hold of after the life of the contract with the UK along with a payment for the power transferred during the contract
Why would England not just build the infrastructure themselves on their own land though?
Ban them from importing our beef and butter and computers and pharmaceuticals as well. That'll show them.
Quote from: God14 on November 07, 2013, 02:26:53 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 07, 2013, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2013, 11:24:50 AM
QuoteWe all use electricity but don't want the infrastructure to provide it
England uses electricity, but want us to have the infrastructure to provide it.
Which we will get hold of after the life of the contract with the UK along with a payment for the power transferred during the contract
Why would England not just build the infrastructure themselves on their own land though?
More
hot ai wind in this Country as we get the first whack from the Atlantic.
Quote from: God14 on November 07, 2013, 02:26:53 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 07, 2013, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2013, 11:24:50 AM
QuoteWe all use electricity but don't want the infrastructure to provide it
England uses electricity, but want us to have the infrastructure to provide it.
Which we will get hold of after the life of the contract with the UK along with a payment for the power transferred during the contract
Why would England not just build the infrastructure themselves on their own land though?
They are building 7GW up to 2020 (thats in comparison to 2GW currently installed in Ireland)
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 07, 2013, 02:49:23 PM
Quote from: God14 on November 07, 2013, 02:26:53 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 07, 2013, 01:32:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2013, 11:24:50 AM
QuoteWe all use electricity but don't want the infrastructure to provide it
England uses electricity, but want us to have the infrastructure to provide it.
Which we will get hold of after the life of the contract with the UK along with a payment for the power transferred during the contract
Why would England not just build the infrastructure themselves on their own land though?
They are building 7GW up to 2020 (thats in comparison to 2GW currently installed in Ireland)
Anyone see the huge turbines being built out the airport road in Belfast, they're huge and AFAIK being installed somewhere in the north sea by a wing of Scottish Power.
I don't want the pylons going through our land. I fear they could though.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 08, 2013, 01:20:44 PM
I don't want the pylons going through our land. I fear they could though.
Different issue Farr but out of curiosity why not?
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 09, 2013, 12:52:46 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 08, 2013, 01:20:44 PM
I don't want the pylons going through our land. I fear they could though.
Different issue Farr but out of curiosity why not?
I thought it was all the one issue myself. I suppose they would be a bit of an eyesore to be honest and with the 200 metres either side of the corners fenced off they'd be quite annoying if any work was to be done you know.