How many more can he win..
http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?z7917478527&z=1600249438
FIFPRO XI:
Iker Casillas (Real Madrid and Spain);
Dani Alves (Barcelona and Brazil),
Gerard Pique (Barcelona and Spain),
Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid and Spain),
Marcelo (Real Madrid and Brazil);
Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid and Spain),
Xavi Hernandez (Barcelona and Spain),
Andres Iniesta (Barcelona and Spain);
Lionel Messi (Barcelona and Argentina),
Radamel Falcao (Atletico Madrid and Colombia),
Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid and Portugal).
No one from the weaker counties make it this year?
That team is all well and good but on a wet Wednesday night in Stoke......
Quote from: dec on January 07, 2013, 07:47:39 PM
FIFPRO XI:
Iker Casillas (Real Madrid and Spain);
Dani Alves (Barcelona and Brazil),
Gerard Pique (Barcelona and Spain),
Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid and Spain),
Marcelo (Real Madrid and Brazil);
Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid and Spain),
Xavi Hernandez (Barcelona and Spain),
Andres Iniesta (Barcelona and Spain);
Lionel Messi (Barcelona and Argentina),
Radamel Falcao (Atletico Madrid and Colombia),
Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid and Portugal).
Barcelona 5 Real Madrid 5 Atletico Madrid 1 = Spanish League 11
Spain 6 Brazil 2 Argentina 1 Columbia 1 Portugal 1
Europa League Champions Atletico Madrid 1
Champions League Champions Chelsea 0
Champions League Finalists Bayern 0
Euro 2012 Finalists Italy 0
German League Champions 0
English League Champions 0
Italian League Champions 0
Gas the way pundits a still big up the Premier League and then see the Fifa team of the year made up of all La Liga players. Although I thought Bayern would have had at least 1 player on that team.
When Ronaldo comes home he will win it back. ;)
I'll have whatever you're smoking EC..
Andre Pirlo was possibly unlucky to miss out. Chelsea were very average in the CL last season and had no outstanding players, maybe Drogba being an exception. Bayern should have had 1 or 2.
Messi best year in a year that Barcelona didn't win the Spanish or champions league. First time no player from the champions league winners didn't make the best eleven?
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
Were there any international competitions that they might have looked at?
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
Thought Ibramhimivic was a cert to get goal of the year.
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 07, 2013, 09:19:00 PM
Andre Pirlo was possibly unlucky to miss out. Chelsea were very average in the CL last season and had no outstanding players, maybe Drogba being an exception. Bayern should have had 1 or 2.
Can't believe James McGlean didn't make the team
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 07, 2013, 09:27:27 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
Thought Ibramhimivic was a cert to get goal of the year.
This was a better team goal: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2013/jan/07/greek-children-goal-video
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
fenerbahce vs genclerbirligi ? from my limited research! ;D
Quote from: muppet on January 07, 2013, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
Were there any international competitions that they might have looked at?
Yes Muppet Like the African Cup of Nations perhaps where a Yaya Toure inspired Ivory Coast cruised to the final without conceding a goal, before getting beaten on penaties?!....
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
What nonsense are you talking?
Thought pirlo would have even in with a shout for the team.
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:38:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 07, 2013, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
Were there any international competitions that they might have looked at?
Yes Muppet Like the African Cup of Nations perhaps where a Yaya Toure inspired Ivory Coast cruised to the final without conceding a goal, before getting beaten on penaties?!....
Ahead of World Cup/European Champion double winners? And he didn't even win BBC Player of the Tournament.
Casillas is the Cluxton of the soccer world.
Undoubtedly a top class keeper, but seems to get awards for doing very little.
Not sure about Messi's rig tonight :o
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65142000/jpg/_65142373_65142369.jpg)
If RVP keeps up his current form he won't be far away next year.
Quote from: EC Unique on January 07, 2013, 10:04:28 PM
If RVP keeps up his current form he won't be far away next year.
Madrid?
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2013, 09:47:41 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
What nonsense are you talking?
The 'Very Top Level' ie. The Champions League or the finals of a major international tournament. That not a fair enough barometer of the worlds greatest players?
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2013, 09:47:41 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
What nonsense are you talking?
The 'Very Top Level' ie. The Champions League or the finals of a major international tournament. That not a fair enough barometer of the worlds greatest players?
Why not? IF you can do it at the top, then you are the Top!
Quote from: muppet on January 07, 2013, 09:49:14 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:38:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 07, 2013, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
Were there any international competitions that they might have looked at?
Yes Muppet Like the African Cup of Nations perhaps where a Yaya Toure inspired Ivory Coast cruised to the final without conceding a goal, before getting beaten on penaties?!....
Ahead of World Cup/European Champion double winners? And he didn't even win BBC Player of the Tournament.
Wasnt aware that the form of players at the world cup 3 years ago would be taken into consideration when picking the team of 2012. 'Didnt even' win player of the tournament for African Cup of Nations...surely thats a bit patronising on the old Africans!...'he couldnt even win that'!ha Just making the point that in my humble opinion Toure should have been in with a big shout. Big fan of Alonso's too though.
Quote from: laoislad on January 07, 2013, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 07, 2013, 09:19:00 PM
Andre Pirlo was possibly unlucky to miss out. Chelsea were very average in the CL last season and had no outstanding players, maybe Drogba being an exception. Bayern should have had 1 or 2.
Can't believe James McGlean didn't make the team
Ah well maybe next year eh.
From 77 to 84. English clubs won 7 out of 8 European Cup titles. Impressive for the era? Only one English based player made the top three in this period for Ballon d'Or, Kenny Dalglish 2nd in 1983. 24 places and only one filled during this period! Mad!
1977
1st Allan Simonsen (Danish, Borussia Monchengladbach)
2nd Kevin Keegan (English, Hamburg)
3rd Michel Platini (French, Nancy)
1978
1st Kevin Keegan (English, Hamburg)
2nd Hans Krankl (Austrian, Barcelona)
3rd Rob Rensenbrink (Dutch, Anderlecht)
1979
1st Kevin Keegan (English, Hamburg)
2nd Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (West German, Bayern Munich)
3rd Ruud Krol (Dutch, Ajax)
1980
1st Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (West German, Bayern Munich)
2nd Bernd Schuster (West German, Real Madrid)
3rd Michel Platini (French, Saint-Etienne)
1981
1st Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (West German, Bayern Munich)
2nd Paul Breitner (West German, Bayern Munich)
3rd Bernd Schuster (West German, Barcelona)
1982
1st Paolo Rossi (Italian, Juventus)
2nd Alain Giresse (French, Bordeaux)
3rd Zbigniew Boniek (Polish, Juventus)
1983
1st Michel Platini (French, Juventus)
2nd Kenny Dalglish (Scottish, Liverpool)
3rd Allan Simonsen (Danish, Vejle)
1984
1st Michel Platini (French, Juventus)
2nd Jean Tigana (French, Bordeaux)
3rd Preben Elkjær (Danish, Verona)
Michel Platini , Johan Cruyff and Marco Van Basten were all tied with Messi until he won his 4th tonight.
Can't imagine Messi being a gobsheen like Planini and Cruyff in 20 years time.
I best player I ever saw was Martin McGaughey of Linfield.
Ronaldo wasn't happy to lose out again
https://twitter.com/Killeavy13/status/288366630831026179
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2013, 09:47:41 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
What nonsense are you talking?
The 'Very Top Level' ie. The Champions League or the finals of a major international tournament. That not a fair enough barometer of the worlds greatest players?
Falcao is the best out and out striker on the planet. He demolishes teams all over Europe, demolished the European Champions in the Super Cup, scored an absolute screamer against Barca in the Camp Nou. If you can't see how good he is I suggest you watch a bit more of La Liga. He is outstanding and he'll be worth every penny of the fifty odd million someone's going to fork out for him next summer.
Falcao has been superb for a few seasons now. He was brillant for Athlico Madrid last season in the Europe league (scored 2 quality goals in the final) and in La Liga, destroyed Chelsea in August in the Super Cup final scoring a hat trick. Class act.
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2013, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2013, 09:47:41 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
What nonsense are you talking?
The 'Very Top Level' ie. The Champions League or the finals of a major international tournament. That not a fair enough barometer of the worlds greatest players?
Falcao is the best out and out striker on the planet. He demolishes teams all over Europe, demolished the European Champions in the Super Cup, scored an absolute screamer against Barca in the Camp Nou. If you can't see how good he is I suggest you watch a bit more of La Liga. He is outstanding and he'll be worth every penny of the fifty odd million someone's going to fork out for him next summer.
Totally agree. Easily the best #9 in the world. Aguero, RVP and Ibra would have been close to winning it other years but Falcao has been far better this year than them
As regards playing at a lower level. Michu has as many goals bagged in England by Xmas as he had in all of la Liga last year.
Enough said
As for the rest of the team of the year Casillas, Ramos and Marcelo are the only ones where you could have an argument over.
The rest were set in stone
The likes of Pirlo was never getting in the team as you would have to drop Iniesta or Xavi.
Its hard to pick an outstanding Chelsea player as it was more a combined team effort.
I would have had Neuer in goals and possibly Alba in for Marcelo due to his performances in Euros and start to 2012 season.
Christ lads Chelsea rode a huge slice of luck to win the CL. That team reflects the best players from the best league in the world. The EPL is undoubtedly exiting but the level of skill and touch is no where near that in La Liga.
It underscores the wrongs of professional sport without a salary cap when the world XI is basically two clubs plus one guy they haven't managed to buy yet.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 08, 2013, 12:02:15 PM
It underscores the wrongs of professional sport without a salary cap when the world XI is basically two clubs plus one guy they haven't managed to buy yet.
Shows how little you know about Barcelona. They buy strategically but most of their players come through their academy, including Messi. Alba and Fabregas also came throgh that system. Barca do not hold players back, they very often let them go to develop and return. Mes Que Un Club!
Quote from: Rossie11 on January 08, 2013, 11:54:29 AM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2013, 11:57:03 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 07, 2013, 09:47:41 PM
Quote from: wildrover on January 07, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
Surely that FifPro team is a bit controversial being solely comprised of one league?!...I would have Yaya Toure (African player of year and pivotal force behind winning premier league) in for Xabi Alonso. Ashley Cole/Didier Drogba for their performances in Champions league ahead of Marcelo and Falcao (who admittedly is banging them in but not at the very top level).
Would also question the Goal of the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFkWJfqD_UQ
Good strike but fairly common to see those types sail in. Would have thought something a bit more special such as Mexes/Ibrahimovic bicycle kicks? :o
What nonsense are you talking?
The 'Very Top Level' ie. The Champions League or the finals of a major international tournament. That not a fair enough barometer of the worlds greatest players?
Falcao is the best out and out striker on the planet. He demolishes teams all over Europe, demolished the European Champions in the Super Cup, scored an absolute screamer against Barca in the Camp Nou. If you can't see how good he is I suggest you watch a bit more of La Liga. He is outstanding and he'll be worth every penny of the fifty odd million someone's going to fork out for him next summer.
Totally agree. Easily the best #9 in the world. Aguero, RVP and Ibra would have been close to winning it other years but Falcao has been far better this year than them
As regards playing at a lower level. Michu has as many goals bagged in England by Xmas as he had in all of la Liga last year.
Enough said
As for the rest of the team of the year Casillas, Ramos and Marcelo are the only ones where you could have an argument over.
The rest were set in stone
The likes of Pirlo was never getting in the team as you would have to drop Iniesta or Xavi.
Its hard to pick an outstanding Chelsea player as it was more a combined team effort.
I would have had Neuer in goals and possibly Alba in for Marcelo due to his performances in Euros and start to 2012 season.
For every Michu you have a Forlan, Rossi, Morientes or Martins.
The southern Irish media votes were done by Jimmy Magee and Paul Kelly,
Messi didn't even make it into their top 3 ???
There's a desperate bias involved in the overall voting, it should be like the Eurovision, as in can't vote for your own country.
Who voted for who
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/ballond%27or/playeroftheyear%28men%29/01/98/07/84/fboawardmenplayer2012-bycountry.pdf (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/ballond%27or/playeroftheyear%28men%29/01/98/07/84/fboawardmenplayer2012-bycountry.pdf)
Don't think Ramos can be questioned, particularly after the Euros and coming back from the CL penalty miss.
Neuer for Casillas, Pirlo for Alonso, Alba for Marcelo, Thiago Silva maybe for Pique who was injured quite a bit.
Saw some calls for Drogba - he's spent half the year playing football in China ffs.
QuoteThiago Silva maybe for Pique who was injured quite a bit.
I thought the outstanding centre-halves in 2012 were Hummels and Ramos - Piqué would have been fourth behind Thiago Silva, for me.
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2013, 12:08:00 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 08, 2013, 12:02:15 PM
It underscores the wrongs of professional sport without a salary cap when the world XI is basically two clubs plus one guy they haven't managed to buy yet.
Shows how little you know about Barcelona. They buy strategically but most of their players come through their academy, including Messi. Alba and Fabregas also came throgh that system. Barca do not hold players back, they very often let them go to develop and return. Mes Que Un Club!
Don't talk shite. What about Alves who is on this world XI. They buy plenty of big money players. Ibrahimovic was a good one. Fabregas was at Arsenal since he was 16 and they paid big money to buy him back. While they are nothing like Real Madrid they are not the embodiment of the Corinthian spirit either. I have huge admiration for them but their golden generation of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi will never be repeated.
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 07, 2013, 10:35:42 PM
Michel Platini , Johan Cruyff and Marco Van Basten were all tied with Messi until he won his 4th tonight.
Messi needs just 7 more to tie with Larry Reilly now.
Quote from: gallsman on January 08, 2013, 12:58:20 PM
Don't think Ramos can be questioned, particularly after the Euros and coming back from the CL penalty miss.
Neuer for Casillas, Pirlo for Alonso, Alba for Marcelo, Thiago Silva maybe for Pique who was injured quite a bit.
Saw some calls for Drogba - he's spent half the year playing football in China ffs.
Eh no, I wasn't calling for him to be in the team, just he was probaly the only stand out player for Chelsea when they won the CL last season, he was good but was never going to be in the side. Plus as you said he has been playing in China since August.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 08, 2013, 01:05:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2013, 12:08:00 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 08, 2013, 12:02:15 PM
It underscores the wrongs of professional sport without a salary cap when the world XI is basically two clubs plus one guy they haven't managed to buy yet.
Shows how little you know about Barcelona. They buy strategically but most of their players come through their academy, including Messi. Alba and Fabregas also came throgh that system. Barca do not hold players back, they very often let them go to develop and return. Mes Que Un Club!
Don't talk shite. What about Alves who is on this world XI. They buy plenty of big money players. Ibrahimovic was a good one. Fabregas was at Arsenal since he was 16 and they paid big money to buy him back. While they are nothing like Real Madrid they are not the embodiment of the Corinthian spirit either. I have huge admiration for them but their golden generation of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi will never be repeated.
When it comes to talking shite you are undoubtedly the expert. 6 out of the first team squad of 26 are products of La Massia. For every Alba and Cesc that they buy back the have sold the likes of a Bojan. Learning from past mistakes they now invariably have a buy back clause for such players. In Bojan's case sold for 12m with a buy back option of 13m.
Reading Graham Hunters book on Barca and specifically this current team. A great read but its amazing to how close they came to losing Messi only for the personal intervention of a few people within the club, Barca really dragged their feet to commit to him. Alot of it over his size and the treatment they had to pay for him to help him grow.
Also, him or Iniesta nearly joined Rangers on loan at one stage just before they really landed on the first team scene with a bang.
A classic error from Eamon Dunphy after Spain beat Italy in the Euro final..
"There is a unity between the Catalans and the Spaniards which is very important... Traditionally Spain have underachieved because the players of Barcelona, and the Basque country indeed, and the Castilians don't get on. But that rift has been healed by this generation of players. And notably, when the Spanish national anthem was being played no Spanish player sang it. I think that was a recognition that [the players] say nothing... keep quiet. For the purposes of football, they have left a culture and their politics in the dressing room and played for their nation."
Spanish anthem contains no words. :)
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2013, 04:24:57 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 08, 2013, 01:05:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2013, 12:08:00 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 08, 2013, 12:02:15 PM
It underscores the wrongs of professional sport without a salary cap when the world XI is basically two clubs plus one guy they haven't managed to buy yet.
Shows how little you know about Barcelona. They buy strategically but most of their players come through their academy, including Messi. Alba and Fabregas also came throgh that system. Barca do not hold players back, they very often let them go to develop and return. Mes Que Un Club!
Don't talk shite. What about Alves who is on this world XI. They buy plenty of big money players. Ibrahimovic was a good one. Fabregas was at Arsenal since he was 16 and they paid big money to buy him back. While they are nothing like Real Madrid they are not the embodiment of the Corinthian spirit either. I have huge admiration for them but their golden generation of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi will never be repeated.
When it comes to talking shite you are undoubtedly the expert. 6 out of the first team squad of 26 are products of La Massia. For every Alba and Cesc that they buy back the have sold the likes of a Bojan. Learning from past mistakes they now invariably have a buy back clause for such players. In Bojan's case sold for 12m with a buy back option of 13m.
That's good
business, fair play to them.
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 08, 2013, 02:14:50 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 08, 2013, 12:58:20 PM
Don't think Ramos can be questioned, particularly after the Euros and coming back from the CL penalty miss.
Neuer for Casillas, Pirlo for Alonso, Alba for Marcelo, Thiago Silva maybe for Pique who was injured quite a bit.
Saw some calls for Drogba - he's spent half the year playing football in China ffs.
Eh no, I wasn't calling for him to be in the team, just he was probaly the only stand out player for Chelsea when they won the CL last season, he was good but was never going to be in the side. Plus as you said he has been playing in China since August.
I wasn't talking about you :) Jacob Steinberg from the Guardian was the one who came to mind as I saw it on Twitter last night.
An article on the home grown players produced
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%20barcelona%20acadamey%20starts%20younger%20than%20other%20clubs&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CE4QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Farticle-2238539%2FBarcelona-field-La-Masia-team-time-La-Liga-game--does-Premier-League-compare.html&ei=BGHsUNnpMorLhAffr4HYDQ&usg=AFQjCNF8yJyLLTohRsK4q0iIfHZ75axFtw
Ashley Cole probably should have been on the team. The way the players are selected beats me, the media, and captains and coaches of all countries. How the hell does a captain,media or coach of a small country know how good Messi, Ronaldo are every week?? when do they ever see they play? the whole thing geared up to who is on tv the most? How come no-one from Bayern Munich is not on the team? Barca a good team, but there defense is not even first rate to be called the best team ever. Brazil 1970, and Hungary 54 are better teams than them. Hell they aint even the best club team ever, i still have Milan 89-94 ahead of them. messi good, very good, but i still put Maradona ahead of him. the rule change preventing players tackling from behind greatly helped classy players. Maradona got kicked halfway across spain and italy in the years where he got little protection from referees, i think if Messi had to play in the same condition he be half killed, with Ronaldo lying in aheap as a stiff breeze would blow him over anyway
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2013, 07:05:20 PM
Ashley Cole probably should have been on the team. The way the players are selected beats me, the media, and captains and coaches of all countries. How the hell does a captain,media or coach of a small country know how good Messi, Ronaldo are every week?? when do they ever see they play? the whole thing geared up to who is on tv the most? How come no-one from Bayern Munich is not on the team? Barca a good team, but there defense is not even first rate to be called the best team ever. Brazil 1970, and Hungary 54 are better teams than them. Hell they aint even the best club team ever, i still have Milan 89-94 ahead of them. messi good, very good, but i still put Maradona ahead of him. the rule change preventing players tackling from behind greatly helped classy players. Maradona got kicked halfway across spain and italy in the years where he got little protection from referees, i think if Messi had to play in the same condition he be half killed, with Ronaldo lying in aheap as a stiff breeze would blow him over anyway
First you complain that people from smaller countries never see Messi play and then hold up the Hungary 50's team as icons.
How many times have you seen the Mighty Magyars in action?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2013, 07:05:20 PM
Ashley Cole probably should have been on the team. The way the players are selected beats me, the media, and captains and coaches of all countries. How the hell does a captain,media or coach of a small country know how good Messi, Ronaldo are every week?? when do they ever see they play? the whole thing geared up to who is on tv the most? How come no-one from Bayern Munich is not on the team? Barca a good team, but there defense is not even first rate to be called the best team ever. Brazil 1970, and Hungary 54 are better teams than them. Hell they aint even the best club team ever, i still have Milan 89-94 ahead of them. messi good, very good, but i still put Maradona ahead of him. the rule change preventing players tackling from behind greatly helped classy players. Maradona got kicked halfway across spain and italy in the years where he got little protection from referees, i think if Messi had to play in the same condition he be half killed, with Ronaldo lying in aheap as a stiff breeze would blow him over anyway
Barca are the best Club team of the current generation. I was too young to even remember Maradona playing. Saw him lots on videos/dvds alright and he was a brillant player.
The game has changed since then though and is a lot faster paced,
Same way comparing Barcelona to Brazil in the 70's or Hungary in the 50's, very hard to say Hungary 50 years ago are better now than a current Barcelona team. Teams are fitter now, more up to date with Sport Science, rest and recovery.
And I reckon Messi would be well able to look after himself, if he played in the in them years Maradona was playing. He is a little beast.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2013, 07:05:20 PM
Ashley Cole probably should have been on the team. The way the players are selected beats me, the media, and captains and coaches of all countries. How the hell does a captain,media or coach of a small country know how good Messi, Ronaldo are every week?? when do they ever see they play? the whole thing geared up to who is on tv the most? How come no-one from Bayern Munich is not on the team? Barca a good team, but there defense is not even first rate to be called the best team ever. Brazil 1970, and Hungary 54 are better teams than them. Hell they aint even the best club team ever, i still have Milan 89-94 ahead of them. messi good, very good, but i still put Maradona ahead of him. the rule change preventing players tackling from behind greatly helped classy players. Maradona got kicked halfway across spain and italy in the years where he got little protection from referees, i think if Messi had to play in the same condition he be half killed, with Ronaldo lying in aheap as a stiff breeze would blow him over anyway
Who do you reckon is better placed to select the winners than current players, current managers and a selection of the media?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2013, 07:05:20 PM
Ashley Cole probably should have been on the team. The way the players are selected beats me, the media, and captains and coaches of all countries. How the hell does a captain,media or coach of a small country know how good Messi, Ronaldo are every week?? when do they ever see they play? the whole thing geared up to who is on tv the most? How come no-one from Bayern Munich is not on the team? Barca a good team, but there defense is not even first rate to be called the best team ever. Brazil 1970, and Hungary 54 are better teams than them. Hell they aint even the best club team ever, i still have Milan 89-94 ahead of them. messi good, very good, but i still put Maradona ahead of him. the rule change preventing players tackling from behind greatly helped classy players. Maradona got kicked halfway across spain and italy in the years where he got little protection from referees, i think if Messi had to play in the same condition he be half killed, with Ronaldo lying in aheap as a stiff breeze would blow him over anyway
Milan 89 (powered by the 3 Dutchmen) were so very largely different than Milan 94 (inspired by Desailly, Boban, Savicevic) that they can scarcely be called the same or continuation of the same team. Hungarian team of that era were undoubtedly a fine side, though luck deserted them in the most important game of them all. Brazil 1970 were a confluence (like Galway '98), a coming together of so many fine players all at once; however, they didn't do anything of note in the finals of '66 and '74. This Barce' team has largely been the same for the past 4/5 seasons now and have been playing football of an extraordinary standard in all that time. Their 5-0 dismantling of a fine Real side in Nov. 2010 remains for me the zenith of football that has been played on this planet. I doubt if there has been a better football side of any era, club or national.
P.S. Why not compare them to the Real side of 55-60?
Dont get me wrong Barca are good, very good, but they are poor at the back, and have been for a number of years, to me the greatest team ever should be as good going back as they are going forward. THE barca team now is totally different to the team that won the champions league maybe 6yrs bck! The Milan team of 89-92 plus their revised version that won in `94 to me are a better overall team, losses to Marseille 91/92 plus suspended one year for walking off, and a loss to Ajax 95,(who would have been special only they sold all their players) stopped this team from winning another 3 titles when they were the strongest team in Europe at the time. Barca for some reason have always struggled against Chelsea,everybody has a bogey team i suppose.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2013, 09:34:26 PM
Dont get me wrong Barca are good, very good, but they are poor at the back, and have been for a number of years, to me the greatest team ever should be as good going back as they are going forward. THE barca team now is totally different to the team that won the champions league maybe 6yrs bck! The Milan team of 89-92 plus their revised version that won in `94 to me are a better overall team, losses to Marseille 91/92 plus suspended one year for walking off, and a loss to Ajax 95,(who would have been special only they sold all their players) stopped this team from winning another 3 titles when they were the strongest team in Europe at the time. Barca for some reason have always struggled against Chelsea,everybody has a bogey team i suppose.
You're just being controversial here.
This Barca team have perfected the art of defending by a) never giving the ball away, and b) pressing hard to get it back before they face opportunities.
You, me, nobody has any idea how weak they are defensively in the older sense as they're rarely tested. The great teams you name above would chase shadow against them too.
Philosophically, they're like the Liverpool or the 70s and 80s - the idea is to defend from the front and your back four is less likely to be tested as often or as systematically as when you allow the opposition to build from the back. It's a clever ploy as most teams set about building possession and attacks based on the premise of (relatively unchallenged) possession deep in their own territory. I think Barca find it hard to beat Chelsea (and similar teams) because they don't (or didn't) try to build attacks against them - they surrendered the ball to Barca and waited for opportunities to hit long diagonals over their (high up) back four. Celtic did exactly the same thing in Parkhead - I can't imagine that Barca are letting that rest on their training ground and that they'll have a strategy to combat that by the time we get to the knockout stages of the CL this season. Fascinating stuff (for me anyway).
Good analysis of Barca's defensive strategy by Wobbler especially and BB's there. You simply have to look at it differently than most teams as it's pretty unique. You basically never get a chance to "get at" their back 4 in the manner we'd be used to from British soccer. Therefore they can get away with playing the likes of Mascherano at centre back. It's amazing really and every bit as brilliant as their attacking play.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2013, 09:34:26 PM
Dont get me wrong Barca are good, very good, but they are poor at the back, and have been for a number of years, to me the greatest team ever should be as good going back as they are going forward. THE barca team now is totally different to the team that won the champions league maybe 6yrs bck! The Milan team of 89-92 plus their revised version that won in `94 to me are a better overall team, losses to Marseille 91/92 plus suspended one year for walking off, and a loss to Ajax 95,(who would have been special only they sold all their players) stopped this team from winning another 3 titles when they were the strongest team in Europe at the time. Barca for some reason have always struggled against Chelsea,everybody has a bogey team i suppose.
Its down to the structure of the team and how they choose to play the game. People critisise Barca and Madrid for having been bad defensively but as neither are playing with a defensive game plan of course they are going to be exposed.
You could pick the best back 4 in the world and stick them into Barcas team and they would still get opened up regularly as they are not playing 2 banks of 4 like for example the traditional Italian set up.
As an example a few of the great Italian defenders have played for both and have not looked anything close to special.
Cannavaro was at the heart of the defense on the Madrid team who were torn apart by Barca 6-2 and Liverpool 4-0.
Similarly Zambrota was a liability for Barca and was replaced by Dani Alves.
However put them 2 players into an Italian formation and the likes of John Giles are wetting themselves over their defensive brilliance.
In my opinion it is not possible to be as good as Barca going forward and have the solid Greece or Italian style defense
You have to have a balance and play to your strengths. Its suits Barca to play like the do. Its suits Italy to play as they do.
It makes for a fascinating clash of styles. Soccer would be a lot more boring if everyone played the same way.
Quote from: Rossie11 on January 09, 2013, 09:50:20 AM
As an example a few of the great Italian defenders have played for both and have not looked anything close to special.
Cannavaro was at the heart of the defense on the Madrid team who were torn apart by Barca 6-2 and Liverpool 4-0.
Similarly Zambrota was a liability for Barca and was replaced by Dani Alves.
However put them 2 players into an Italian formation and the likes of John Giles are wetting themselves over their defensive brilliance.
Cannavaro was well past his best in his last season for Madrid, a rapid decline from his previous seasons' excellence with Madrid, an individual standard of excellence recognised in part by the 2006 Ballon d'Or award.
Quote from: Main Street on January 09, 2013, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: Rossie11 on January 09, 2013, 09:50:20 AM
As an example a few of the great Italian defenders have played for both and have not looked anything close to special.
Cannavaro was at the heart of the defense on the Madrid team who were torn apart by Barca 6-2 and Liverpool 4-0.
Similarly Zambrota was a liability for Barca and was replaced by Dani Alves.
However put them 2 players into an Italian formation and the likes of John Giles are wetting themselves over their defensive brilliance.
Cannavaro was well past his best in his last season for Madrid, a rapid decline from his previous seasons' excellence with Madrid, an individual standard of excellence recognised in part by the 2006 Ballon d'Or award.
I think the point is that Italian defending is very different (to modern Spanish defending) in that its major strengths are in positioning, jockeying and tackling - the principles are that defenders sit deep, don't have to run long distances and have their backs to goal most of the time. The modern Spanish game requires that defenders press forward to minimise the distance between defence and midfield, and thus defenders find themselves too far from their own goal to do the Italian thing effectively.
Compare what happens in the middle third in Serie-A and La-Liga games back-to-back if you get the chance. The first meeting of Spain and Italy in the recent European championship was a very interesting comparison of the effectiveness of the styles of play - we (well, I) got the impression that there wasn't much between their (current) effectiveness ... until the final, that is.
Gareth Bale has just been awarded Fallon D'Floor
I'll get my coat..
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 09, 2013, 11:07:37 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 09, 2013, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: Rossie11 on January 09, 2013, 09:50:20 AM
As an example a few of the great Italian defenders have played for both and have not looked anything close to special.
Cannavaro was at the heart of the defense on the Madrid team who were torn apart by Barca 6-2 and Liverpool 4-0.
Similarly Zambrota was a liability for Barca and was replaced by Dani Alves.
However put them 2 players into an Italian formation and the likes of John Giles are wetting themselves over their defensive brilliance.
Cannavaro was well past his best in his last season for Madrid, a rapid decline from his previous seasons' excellence with Madrid, an individual standard of excellence recognised in part by the 2006 Ballon d'Or award.
I think the point is that Italian defending is very different (to modern Spanish defending) in that its major strengths are in positioning, jockeying and tackling - the principles are that defenders sit deep, don't have to run long distances and have their backs to goal most of the time. The modern Spanish game requires that defenders press forward to minimise the distance between defence and midfield, and thus defenders find themselves too far from their own goal to do the Italian thing effectively.
Compare what happens in the middle third in Serie-A and La-Liga games back-to-back if you get the chance. The first meeting of Spain and Italy in the recent European championship was a very interesting comparison of the effectiveness of the styles of play - we (well, I) got the impression that there wasn't much between their (current) effectiveness ... until the final, that is.
I think the specific point I was referring to was that Cannavaro could hack it in Spain even in the twilight seasons of his career.
Just because Italy and Spain play football differently doesn't mean that good footballers can't adapt.
Though I don't know why Zambrotta didn't flourish at Barca, one would have thought he was bound for glory at full back there.
The oft repeated comment that 'Barca are poor at the back' is one of the most asinine comments made about modern football.
But Barca do hesitate when looking for defenders and last season much to their cost in the CL they had no back up for long term casualty Puyol, not to mention when Pique got injured.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 09, 2013, 11:22:31 AM
Gareth Bale has just been awarded Fallon D'Floor
I'll get my coat..
Suarez 2nd?
Barca were so poor at the back last year they had the best defence in La liga. Barca won't compromise their footballing principles to buy an out and out central defender. Puyol, Pique and indeed Mascherano who has excelled at the back are converted mid field players.
Quote from: Main Street on January 09, 2013, 02:06:39 PM
The oft repeated comment that 'Barca are poor at the back' is one of the most asinine comments made about modern football.
But Barca do hesitate when looking for defenders and last season much to their cost in the CL they had no back up for long term casualty Puyol, not to mention when Pique got injured.
Chrygrynsky was sold against Pep's wishes but they needed the funds and Thiago Silva looked certain to be heading to them until PSG weighed in with megabucks, so They do look at accomplished defenders elsewhere but you need to be extremely good on the ball in this Barca team which is why they're happy to play Mascherano there - his reading of the game and ability to play the ball out of defence make up for his lack of height etc. They won't throw money at a defender unless they think he can play football as well.
Carlos Puyol is a regular Spanish International and missed the Euro's through injury. Gerard Pique had a solid campaign for Barcelona and was very good during the Euro's. Jordi Alba is a regular with Spain and also had a very good Euro's.
Dani is obviously not Spanish but a good defender aswell, and is in the Fifa club team of the year.
Barcelona mightn't be as dogged like the Italians defenisvely but I wouldn't say the defence is poor either.
Spain are the best International side in the world, those players aren't in the team for no reason.