http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1 (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1)
Breaking news. f**king heartbreaking.
Sky News now reporting at least 27 dead, 14 children.
In a country where every lunatic can have a gun this is what happens.
Just desperate. I really despair. Bunch of young souls probably waved and kissed the parents goodbye this morning thinking its just another day of playground fun and games.
Expect the NRA to come out and tell us that if some of those teachers or children had been packing heat, they could have stopped the gunman sooner. ::)
terrible news. how can the lack of gun control in america continue
How the f**k do you pull the trigger of a gun pointed at a kid. :'(
God help those poor families and also the children who witnessed what happened.
Shocking.
Unbelievably sad .. The US Government is as guilty as the lunatic who pulled the trigger for allowing everyone access to guns ... Tragic.
Just read on RTE Twitter that one entire classroom of students is unaccounted for
Why cant these horrible animals just kill themselves instead of taking out a boatload of children and other innocent people?
Horrible news, just hideous and I dont know how the families recover from this!
Awful news. Worse than nightmares.
I'll man up and admit I've choked back a few tears this morning watching all this transpire on the news. The images of distraught parents racing to the school to check if their child is alive, pictures of teachers shepherding P1s and P2's through a car park in utter terror will sit with me for a long time. 17 children reported dead so far and 7 adults including the 20yr old Gunman. Heart breaking stuff :'(
Quote from: The Iceman on December 14, 2012, 06:31:50 PM
I'll man up and admit I've choked back a few tears this morning watching all this transpire on the news. The images of distraught parents racing to the school to check if their child is alive, pictures of teachers shepherding P1s and P2's through a car park in utter terror will sit with me for a long time. 17 children reported dead so far and 7 adults including the 20yr old Gunman. Heart breaking stuff :'(
18 kids dead, a class full of kids are missing apparently, 17 kids in this class according to CNN.
The have killed a 20 year old in the killing with some other man arrested from the bushes in camouflage trousers, he seems to be an accomplice but when questioned he turned to a parent on the scene and said" I didnt do it" Time will tell.
AP: Suspect used .223 caliber rifle. This is a picture of a .223 rifle. This is legal
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-GJSUFCUAANr51.jpg:large)
Christ, what you need a gun like that for, Terrorists over here couldn't get their hand on a thing like that fore by Joe Bloggs
terrible terrible news indeed. been watching it unfold on CNN, more people will buy more guns to protect themselves
I am only just seeing this now, sickening stuff. What the f**k is wrong with some people!
Politicians will doubtless offer plenty of "thoughts and prayers" but sweet f*** all gun legislation.
Quote from: Puckoon on December 14, 2012, 06:17:01 PM
How the f**k do you pull the trigger of a gun pointed at a kid. :'(
That's beyond comprehension.
If you were sick enough to want to make other people suffer, there is nothing that could cause them more pain than to shoot their children.
BBC reporting it as worst mass shooting 'in an elementary school'. It's pretty sick that these types of shootings are so common that they now need to be categorized.
Apparently the mother of the shooter worked at the school and is among the dead. Brother being held by police.
being reported that gunman shot his father at home before going to the school and shooting his mother who worked there. he then went on to kill at least 27 people. shocking stuff.
Msntioned on the news that the kids were in Kindergarten. 5 f**king years of age, what the f**k? There is as much blood on the NRA etc hands than the gunman.
Quote from: J70 on December 14, 2012, 08:10:36 PM
Apparently the mother of the shooter worked at the school and is among the dead. Brother being held by police.
Brother is dead according to CNN
Seems to be an entire classroom of kindergartners gone.
Shame on Obama.
Quote from: Puckoon on December 14, 2012, 06:07:01 PM
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1 (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1)
Breaking news. f**king heartbreaking.
f**king system problem
I can't imagine how painful it must be for the parents. I have kids and I can't imagine going past the school in the afermath of an entire class being murdered.
Quote from: Puckoon on December 14, 2012, 08:37:59 PM
Seems to be an entire classroom of kindergartners gone.
Holy f**k! :'(
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 14, 2012, 08:44:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
Go on ......
No appetite in changing gun law, has had one term and didn't, won't do it in his second term. Over 900,000 shot in US this year, pretty sure that number would be lower if the legislation was changed. Really simple.
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:51:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 14, 2012, 08:44:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
Go on ......
No appetite in changing gun law, has had one term and didn't, won't do it in his second term. Over 900,000 shot in US this year, pretty sure that number would be lower if the legislation was changed. Really simple.
Gun culture is huge in america and Obama does want to have tighter checks and restrictions on who can own a gun.
The Gun lobby will be arguing, with a perfectly straight face, that a lack of guns allowed this event to happen i.e. that teachers in the school were not armed. It's a weird mindset.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on December 14, 2012, 08:56:48 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:51:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 14, 2012, 08:44:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
Go on ......
No appetite in changing gun law, has had one term and didn't, won't do it in his second term. Over 900,000 shot in US this year, pretty sure that number would be lower if the legislation was changed. Really simple.
Gun culture is huge in america and Obama does want to have tighter checks and restrictions on who can own a gun.
He was never going to touch this issue in his first term. Suppose you could call that cowardice or pragmatism.
Quote from: omagh_gael on December 14, 2012, 08:20:14 PM
Msntioned on the news that the kids were in Kindergarten. 5 f**king years of age, what the f**k? There is as much blood on the NRA etc hands than the gunman.
That's not true gael, it is emotive,yes their stance on gun control is disgusting but they did not pull the trigger, if what you say it true, then Obama, Bush Reagan, carter etc are also to blame for the killings of innocents over the country's history based on the fact their either sided with the NRA or the greater hypocrisy, that they oppose them but failed to change the law whilst in office and in a position to try to do so.
I just got a call from my kid who goes to the University of Minnesota, she is a nanny over there to help pay for her schooling and she minds twins, a boy and a girl that are 8 months old, she is distraught and cannot come to terms with what happened, how could you when you are face to face with two babies, let alone shove a gun in their face and kill them? Times that by 10 million and you scratch the surface of what the parents and families of the victims must be going through.
It takes a real man to kill 5 year olds, to open up and kill innocent children and teachers, I hope he rots in hell the cowardly bastard!
I am sitting on my laptop looking at the images of children crying, parents in tears and my girlfriend just told me that she seen a video where a fireman told the children to close their eyes as they left school. It is horrible to think that those children will have to live with those images for the rest of their lives, unfortunately they are not the first and they definitely won't be the last. Brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents and friends all grieving and this is one thing time will never heal.
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
WTF?
Shame on every President since day 1, shame on every senator from day one and shame on every govcenor from day one that lifted not one finger to change the gun culture in the USA.
Obama is partly to blame but no more so than any other president, that is most unfair.
Nothing good can come out of this other than maybe now, the cowards that are the politicians will be forced to act and say fcuk the NRA and get the laws changed and get semi automatc and automatic weapons out of the hands of the people, they don't f**king need them!
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
WTF?
Shame on every President since day 1, shame on every senator from day one and shame on every govcenor from day one that lifted not one finger to change the gun culture in the USA.
Obama is partly to blame but no more so than any other president, that is most unfair.
Nothing good can come out of this other than maybe now, the cowards that are the politicians will be forced to act and say fcuk the NRA and get the laws changed and get semi automatc and automatic weapons out of the hands of the people, they don't f**king need them!
Shame on Americans for voting for him.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on December 14, 2012, 09:10:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
WTF?
Shame on every President since day 1, shame on every senator from day one and shame on every govcenor from day one that lifted not one finger to change the gun culture in the USA.
Obama is partly to blame but no more so than any other president, that is most unfair.
Nothing good can come out of this other than maybe now, the cowards that are the politicians will be forced to act and say fcuk the NRA and get the laws changed and get semi automatc and automatic weapons out of the hands of the people, they don't f**king need them!
Shame on Americans for voting for him.
WTF? Do you think Romney would have done more?? have a cop on.
22 children stabbed outside a primary school in China, if he were in America would he have had a gun?
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on December 14, 2012, 09:10:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
WTF?
Shame on every President since day 1, shame on every senator from day one and shame on every govcenor from day one that lifted not one finger to change the gun culture in the USA.
Obama is partly to blame but no more so than any other president, that is most unfair.
Nothing good can come out of this other than maybe now, the cowards that are the politicians will be forced to act and say fcuk the NRA and get the laws changed and get semi automatc and automatic weapons out of the hands of the people, they don't f**king need them!
Shame on Americans for voting for him.
WTF? Do you think Romney would have done more?? have a cop on.
I was defending Obama, if people are going to blame him then you can also blame the people who voted for him.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on December 14, 2012, 09:25:26 PM
I was defending Obama, if people are going to blame him then you can also blame the people who voted for him.
worst defense in history..
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on December 14, 2012, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on December 14, 2012, 09:10:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
WTF?
Shame on every President since day 1, shame on every senator from day one and shame on every govcenor from day one that lifted not one finger to change the gun culture in the USA.
Obama is partly to blame but no more so than any other president, that is most unfair.
Nothing good can come out of this other than maybe now, the cowards that are the politicians will be forced to act and say fcuk the NRA and get the laws changed and get semi automatc and automatic weapons out of the hands of the people, they don't f**king need them!
Shame on Americans for voting for him.
WTF? Do you think Romney would have done more?? have a cop on.
I was defending Obama, if people are going to blame him then you can also blame the people who voted for him.
like feck you were!
Name one politician that has stood up to the NRA and made a difference on gun legislation in the USA??? Ya cant! ergo you cannot blame Obama just because he is the sitting president, most unfair.
Obama is in a unique situation, unlike all before him he can become a part of the solution and not part of the problem, he has four years to make history on a very emotive and important issue, that of gun control, oh and he can weaken one of the worlds greatest associations while he is at it, how great would that be?
@Stew
Obviously not direct responsibility but the weaponry the shooter had access to is a direct result of groups like the NRA.
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:43:41 PM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on December 14, 2012, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on December 14, 2012, 09:10:54 PM
Quote from: stew on December 14, 2012, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 14, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Shame on Obama.
WTF?
Shame on every President since day 1, shame on every senator from day one and shame on every govcenor from day one that lifted not one finger to change the gun culture in the USA.
Obama is partly to blame but no more so than any other president, that is most unfair.
Nothing good can come out of this other than maybe now, the cowards that are the politicians will be forced to act and say fcuk the NRA and get the laws changed and get semi automatc and automatic weapons out of the hands of the people, they don't f**king need them!
Shame on Americans for voting for him.
WTF? Do you think Romney would have done more?? have a cop on.
I was defending Obama, if people are going to blame him then you can also blame the people who voted for him.
like feck you were!
Name one politician that has stood up to the NRA and made a difference on gun legislation in the USA??? Ya cant! ergo you cannot blame Obama just because he is the sitting president, most unfair.
Obama is in a unique situation, unlike all before him he can become a part of the solution and not part of the problem, he has four years to make history on a very emotive and important issue, that of gun control, oh and he can weaken one of the worlds greatest associations while he is at it, how great would that be?
Look back at one of my previous posts...
QuoteGun culture is huge in america and Obama does want to have tighter checks and restrictions on who can own a gun.
What forces anyone to point a loaded gun at a child and pull the trigger? Then to watch the aftermath. Sick
Gun ownership is protected by the second amendment of the constitution. To change the constitution requires a two thirds vote in both the House and the Senate and then be ratified by three quarters of the states.
The president plays no part and the chances of getting 38 out of the 50 states to get rid of the second amendment is non existent.
Have heard the Girlfriend and her friend can be added to the list of people murdered.
Dunblane school massacre was also five,six year olds. More deaths in this school shooting. RIP to all Kids and my heart goes out to the parents.
Quote from: dec on December 14, 2012, 09:57:45 PM
Gun ownership is protected by the second amendment of the constitution. To change the constitution requires a two thirds vote in both the House and the Senate and then be ratified by three quarters of the states.
The president plays no part and the chances of getting 38 out of the 50 states to get rid of the second amendment is non existent.
That might be so but the Supreme Court determines which laws are in breach of the constitution. Banning assault weapons, large magazines, have background check for buyers and forcing owners to lock up their gun properly all fall a long way short of an outright ban but might do some use.
Quote from: omagh_gael on December 14, 2012, 09:45:54 PM
@Stew
Obviously not direct responsibility but the weaponry the shooter had access to is a direct result of groups like the NRA.
I agree however that does not make them as bad as the shooter, nobody is as bad as the shooter!
The lobbyists are cnuts, as are the senators etc, how anyone can support the NRA 100% is beyond me.
I'd have to say this is most sickening thing I have seen happen in the states in many years. With 3 young kids of my own this would be the worst nightmare I could ever have to come to terms with. I also hope when Obama says when they have to come together to take more action after this no mater the politics he means it , even if it means some type of small steps of putting sanctions in place there at at least has to be some type of vetting put in place on who can be responsible for a gun over there . Realistically they are never going to ban them , but I hope those NRA b*****ds are at least wiping away a tear from there eye tonight but I doubt it
If there isn't a backlash against the NRA now there never will be. This will either be a 9/11 moment or it'll just be "another school massacre" and the American public will be de-sensitized to another low level of depravity. I've already seen another forum where people have been arguing, in all seriousness, that armed kindergarten teachers would have prevented this. I mean, how do you reason with people like that? Boggles the mind.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 15, 2012, 01:00:37 AM
If there isn't a backlash against the NRA now there never will be. This will either be a 9/11 moment or it'll just be "another school massacre" and the American public will be de-sensitized to another low level of depravity. I've already seen another forum where people have been arguing, in all seriousness, that armed kindergarten teachers would have prevented this. I mean, how do you reason with people like that? Boggles the mind.
There was a mall shooting Oregon the other night and the same crowd were arguing that the guy had targeted the mall because he knew carrying concealed weapons there was illegal, so no one would shoot back it him. They live in a Rambo fantasy.
I just contacted a close friend who works ATF in Boston. This guy is a Waco veteran and hard as nails. I didn't think he'd be involved but he said he's been "on it all day, seen a lot of stuff in my career but this is unspeakable".
Just brutal. And still my facebook is awash with those who are concerned about their constitutional rights. I'll never get it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/14/newtown-school-shootings-gun-control
Newtown shootings: if not now, when is the time to talk about gun control?
With 27, including 18 children, shot dead in Connecticut, it's not 'politics' but basic decency to insist America have this debate
Share650
Gary Younge
guardian.co.uk, Friday 14 December 2012 19.04 GMT
Friday's mass shooting at Sandy Hook school in Newtown, Connecticut is shocking and horrifying – the time and the place of these massacres inevitably catch us unawares. But the fact that another mass shooting has occurred is not shocking, any more than the last one was, or the next one will be.
Just as with the mass killings earlier this year at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin and the Aurora movie theater, near Denver, Colorado, the chorus of empathetic responses that will follow these tragic shootings in Newtown, Connecticut marks a stubborn refrain in a perennial American elegy. Different singers mouthing different words, but basically singing the same song.
Psychological profiles of the shooter emerge, along with portraits of the victims, while the political class closes ranks so that the nation can heal. Incanted tones to sooth a permanent scar.
All rituals serve a purpose. And this one is no different.
This Friday, at time of writing, 27 people are reported dead, including 18 children. Their families must be given space to mourn, and that space should be respected.
But it does not honour the dead to insist that there must be no room in that space for rational thought and critical appraisal. Indeed, such situations demand both. For one can only account for so many "isolated" incidents before it becomes necessary to start dealing with a pattern.
It is simply not plausible to understand events in Connecticut this Friday without having a conversation about guns in a country where more than 84 people a day are killed with guns, and more than twice that number are injured with them.
Amid all the column inches and airtime now being devoted to these horrific slayings, though, that elephant in the room will remain affectionately patted, discreetly fed and politely indulged. To claim that "this is not the time" ignores the reality that America has found itself incapable of finding any appropriate time to have this urgent conversation. The victims in Newtown, Connecticut deserve at least that. And these tragedies take place everyday, albeit on a smaller scale.
America's president, Barack Obama, understands this. The number of homicide victims in his home town of Chicago this year has outnumbered the fatalities among US troops serving in Kabul.
In response to the Aurora shootings in July, President Obama was right to suspend the routine campaign rhetoric and play the statesman. Nobody wanted to hear about Mitt Romney's tax records and stimulating the economy on that day. There were other days for electioneering, true, but he was wrong to insist on this:
"There are going to be other days for politics. This is a day for prayer and reflection."
Yet that "other day" for debating gun laws never came – not at any point in the three months that remained before the election. Even now, right on cue, the president's spokesman, Jay Carney, has intoned the familiar strain that "now is not the time" to talk about gun control.
For what are we to reflect on if not how this, and so many other similar calamities, came about. Those who insist that we should not "play politics" with the victim's grief conveniently ignore that politics is what caused that grief. Not party politics. But a blend of opportunism on the right that flagrantly mischaracterises the issue, and spinelessness on the left that refuses to address it.
Americans are no more prone to mental illness or violence than any other people in the world. What they do have is more guns: roughly, 90 for every 100 people. And regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.
The trite insistence that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" simply avoids the reality that people can kill people much more easily with guns than anything else that's accessible. Americans understand this. That's why a plurality supports greater gun control, and a majority thinks the sale of firearms should be more tightly regulated.
The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it. In the meantime, the country is literally and metaphorically dying for it.
Gun control is possible. There are both a constituency for it and an argument for it. But it can't happen without a political coalition prepared to fight for it.
If America can twice elect a black president, it can do this.
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2012, 03:26:42 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/14/newtown-school-shootings-gun-control
Newtown shootings: if not now, when is the time to talk about gun control?
With 27, including 18 children, shot dead in Connecticut, it's not 'politics' but basic decency to insist America have this debate
Share650
Gary Younge
guardian.co.uk, Friday 14 December 2012 19.04 GMT
Friday's mass shooting at Sandy Hook school in Newtown, Connecticut is shocking and horrifying – the time and the place of these massacres inevitably catch us unawares. But the fact that another mass shooting has occurred is not shocking, any more than the last one was, or the next one will be.
Just as with the mass killings earlier this year at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin and the Aurora movie theater, near Denver, Colorado, the chorus of empathetic responses that will follow these tragic shootings in Newtown, Connecticut marks a stubborn refrain in a perennial American elegy. Different singers mouthing different words, but basically singing the same song.
Psychological profiles of the shooter emerge, along with portraits of the victims, while the political class closes ranks so that the nation can heal. Incanted tones to sooth a permanent scar.
All rituals serve a purpose. And this one is no different.
This Friday, at time of writing, 27 people are reported dead, including 18 children. Their families must be given space to mourn, and that space should be respected.
But it does not honour the dead to insist that there must be no room in that space for rational thought and critical appraisal. Indeed, such situations demand both. For one can only account for so many "isolated" incidents before it becomes necessary to start dealing with a pattern.
It is simply not plausible to understand events in Connecticut this Friday without having a conversation about guns in a country where more than 84 people a day are killed with guns, and more than twice that number are injured with them.
Amid all the column inches and airtime now being devoted to these horrific slayings, though, that elephant in the room will remain affectionately patted, discreetly fed and politely indulged. To claim that "this is not the time" ignores the reality that America has found itself incapable of finding any appropriate time to have this urgent conversation. The victims in Newtown, Connecticut deserve at least that. And these tragedies take place everyday, albeit on a smaller scale.
America's president, Barack Obama, understands this. The number of homicide victims in his home town of Chicago this year has outnumbered the fatalities among US troops serving in Kabul.
In response to the Aurora shootings in July, President Obama was right to suspend the routine campaign rhetoric and play the statesman. Nobody wanted to hear about Mitt Romney's tax records and stimulating the economy on that day. There were other days for electioneering, true, but he was wrong to insist on this:
"There are going to be other days for politics. This is a day for prayer and reflection."
Yet that "other day" for debating gun laws never came – not at any point in the three months that remained before the election. Even now, right on cue, the president's spokesman, Jay Carney, has intoned the familiar strain that "now is not the time" to talk about gun control.
For what are we to reflect on if not how this, and so many other similar calamities, came about. Those who insist that we should not "play politics" with the victim's grief conveniently ignore that politics is what caused that grief. Not party politics. But a blend of opportunism on the right that flagrantly mischaracterises the issue, and spinelessness on the left that refuses to address it.
Americans are no more prone to mental illness or violence than any other people in the world. What they do have is more guns: roughly, 90 for every 100 people. And regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.
The trite insistence that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" simply avoids the reality that people can kill people much more easily with guns than anything else that's accessible. Americans understand this. That's why a plurality supports greater gun control, and a majority thinks the sale of firearms should be more tightly regulated.
The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it. In the meantime, the country is literally and metaphorically dying for it.
Gun control is possible. There are both a constituency for it and an argument for it. But it can't happen without a political coalition prepared to fight for it.
If America can twice elect a black president, it can do this.
He had me right up until th last line..................what the fcuk :o :o :o :o
Seemingly a lot of the earlier reports untrue e.g. His mother wasn't a teacher at the school. This makes establishing a motive even more difficult.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html?c=intl-homepage-t&page=5
Quote from: Puckoon on December 15, 2012, 02:17:07 AM
I just contacted a close friend who works ATF in Boston. This guy is a Waco veteran and hard as nails. I didn't think he'd be involved but he said he's been "on it all day, seen a lot of stuff in my career but this is unspeakable".
Just brutal. And still my facebook is awash with those who are concerned about their constitutional rights. I'll never get it.
Their constitutional right to own a fuckin' AK47, whatever possible use they could have for that (oh, I forgot, the feds or the UN might be coming for them!) These people are twisted!
Oh FFS, we have a shooting and this gun control shite starts up again. CT has probably the strictest gun control laws in the flicking country. I know, I lived there for 5 years. (BTW I don't own a gun and don't want to either)
This lady has a mentally unstable adult son living under her roof, yet she chooses to (1) keep guns on the premises and (2) obviously keep them in such a manner that he can gain access to them.
Why didn't she get them the Fvck out of the house and get her son the help he so obviously needed.
If he had stolen her car and ploughed into a group of school kids at a bus stop do you think we should ban cars.
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2012, 03:04:43 PM
Oh FFS, we have a shooting and this gun control shite starts up again. CT has probably the strictest gun control laws in the flicking country. I know, I lived there for 5 years. (BTW I don't own a gun and don't want to either)
This lady has a mentally unstable adult son living under her roof, yet she chooses to (1) keep guns on the premises and (2) obviously keep them in such a manner that he can gain access to them.
Why didn't she get them the Fvck out of the house and get her son the help he so obviously needed.
If he had stolen her car and ploughed into a group of school kids at a bus stop do you think we should ban cars.
"A shooting"...
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2012, 03:04:43 PM
Oh FFS, we have a shooting and this gun control shite starts up again. CT has probably the strictest gun control laws in the flicking country. I know, I lived there for 5 years. (BTW I don't own a gun and don't want to either)
This lady has a mentally unstable adult son living under her roof, yet she chooses to (1) keep guns on the premises and (2) obviously keep them in such a manner that he can gain access to them.
Why didn't she get them the Fvck out of the house and get her son the help he so obviously needed.
If he had stolen her car and ploughed into a group of school kids at a bus stop do you think we should ban cars.
Are cars built to kill and maim people?
Some people are too deranged and/or stupid to be allowed access to guns, yet the US right wing will not countenance any attempt to restrict access and or encourage background checking and waiting periods. And that's before you even get into the assault weapons stuff. Why the f**k does someone outside law enforcement or the military need a weapon that can carry 30+ bullets in a clip and fire them all in seconds?
And how about planes, if we're going to make stupid comparisons? They're lethal when things go wrong, but after 9/11, when it finally hit home in the US that psychopaths really could cause havoc in their own back yard, American people acceded to having to walk through all kinds of security hoops so that they could travel safely.
Let's hope no one belonging to you is ever killed by some nut in the next mass murder. You might lose your blase attitude.
Why do these people head for schools to do their killing? Is anything known about the psychology of that?
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2012, 04:48:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2012, 03:04:43 PM
Oh FFS, we have a shooting and this gun control shite starts up again. CT has probably the strictest gun control laws in the flicking country. I know, I lived there for 5 years. (BTW I don't own a gun and don't want to either)
This lady has a mentally unstable adult son living under her roof, yet she chooses to (1) keep guns on the premises and (2) obviously keep them in such a manner that he can gain access to them.
Why didn't she get them the Fvck out of the house and get her son the help he so obviously needed.
If he had stolen her car and ploughed into a group of school kids at a bus stop do you think we should ban cars.
Are cars built to kill and maim people?
Some people are too deranged and/or stupid to be allowed access to guns, yet the US right wing will not countenance any attempt to restrict access and or encourage background checking and waiting periods. And that's before you even get into the assault weapons stuff. Why the f**k does someone outside law enforcement or the military need a weapon that can carry 30+ bullets in a clip and fire them all in seconds?
And how about planes, if we're going to make stupid comparisons? They're lethal when things go wrong, but after 9/11, when it finally hit home in the US that psychopaths really could cause havoc in their own back yard, American people acceded to having to walk through all kinds of security hoops so that they could travel safely.
Let's hope no one belonging to you is ever killed by some nut in the next mass murder. You might lose your blase attitude.
Agree with most of what you say, but I think you are missing my point.
If this can happen in a state that already has some of the strictest laws in the country, how would more gun laws have prevented this tragedy from happening?
'Strictest in the country' != 'Strict enough'.
It's tallest pygmy syndrome. No great achievement to have the strictest laws in the country when those 'strict' laws allow automatic weapons to be owned by joe soaps who have absolutely no need to have them.
Quote from: Hardy on December 15, 2012, 06:29:03 PM
Why do these people head for schools to do their killing? Is anything known about the psychology of that?
Maximum impact in terms of thier "legacy" is probably one of the factors. However, if reports are true, and this young man has Asperger's syndrome then that is likely to be significant. The mix of rigidity of thought and lack of empathy and Add in talk of a personality disorder and you're on a slippery slope. If, as presumed, this man had some form of conflict with his mum then the school probably appeared to be a legitimate target in order to further 'hurt' his mum. I general terms I think it's no coincidence that these happen in schools/colleges as these are areas of huge social pressures that clash with the time when the majority of psychiatric disorders emerge. Mix in hormone overdrive/bullying/stress from exams/social pressures and the number of previous 'guide' shootings probably causes these individuals to snap.
Anyone hear the head doctor from the Newtown hospital interviewed on sky news just now. What an arrogant p***k!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 15, 2012, 06:35:50 PM
'Strictest in the country' != 'Strict enough'.
It's tallest pygmy syndrome. No great achievement to have the strictest laws in the country when those 'strict' laws allow automatic weapons to be owned by joe soaps who have absolutely no need to have them.
Exactly. No-one should be allowed to own the type of weapon used in this atrocity. Whatever needs to be done to stop people getting access to weapons like this that are designed to kill human beings has to be done.
My heart just breaks for the kids, the families, the coomunity that has been ripped asunder by this terrible crime. The NRA and their ilk have rivers of blood on their hands in the eyes of any right thinking person.
Obama achieved something spectacular by introducing his healthcare plan and getting re-elected afterwards with a weak economy. I understand that introducing proper, sensible gun control measures will be far more difficult but I hope and pray he is the man I believe he is and that he can do this.
Al Queda must be jealous of the NRA, they never managed to kill as many Americans as the NRA has.
The NRA are nothing but a terrorist organization as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: stew on December 15, 2012, 03:32:15 AM
He had me right up until th last line..................what the fcuk :o :o :o :o
Stew,
there's a lot of missing context:
Gary Younge is a Guardian feature writer who has written extensively on Civil rights. He is from England and his parents are from Barbados. He moved to Chicago and has been a multiple winner of best journalist awards from Britains Ethnic minority media awards. He has been a professor Public Policy and Social administration in New York and recently moved to Chicago. He is completely in awe of the fact that the US has twice elected a black man. Within this context his comment may be seen to say that the US is perfectly able to pass gun legislation and he is encouraged by the possibility...
Quote from: heganboy on December 16, 2012, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: stew on December 15, 2012, 03:32:15 AM
He had me right up until th last line..................what the fcuk :o :o :o :o
Stew,
there's a lot of missing context:
Gary Younge is a Guardian feature writer who has written extensively on Civil rights. He is from England and his parents are from Barbados. He moved to Chicago and has been a multiple winner of best journalist awards from Britains Ethnic minority media awards. He has been a professor Public Policy and Social administration in New York and recently moved to Chicago. He is completely in awe of the fact that the US has twice elected a black man. Within this context his comment may be seen to say that the US is perfectly able to pass gun legislation and he is encouraged by the possibility...
Why anyone is in awe of a black man getting elected as president is beyond me at this stage and the comment is still baffling to me, why would anyone still be in awe of the Americans electing a black president at this stage?
Down the line there will undoubtedly by a female president and an openly gay president, it is coming, I understand the contextual point he is trying (badly) to make but I feel he does not give enough credit to the voting population of the US and I think he need's to get over the fact that a back man sits as a two term president, move on sir, nothing to see here.
Funnily enough there was a bloke on Fox talking about the secession movement that seems to be stirring in parts. He was suggesting as an experiment the red states should run as an independent country for 4 years and see which country does better.
He suggested that the red country would keep their guns, ban abortion and all the usual. Might be worth a shot. :-\
The part of Gary Younge's article I'd take exception to is this bit, just for the way that it implies that the Democrats are a pro-gun regulation party.
'The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it.'
Afaics, the Democrat party and the Republican party have equal culpability in the lack of political will to enforce gun control regulations.
I heard on the news that this will be the fifth time Obama, as president,has had to visit the scene of a 'spree' massacre. If this is not a sign that gun control is needed then what is?
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2012, 03:04:43 PM
Oh FFS, we have a shooting and this gun control shite starts up again. CT has probably the strictest gun control laws in the flicking country. I know, I lived there for 5 years. (BTW I don't own a gun and don't want to either)
This lady has a mentally unstable adult son living under her roof, yet she chooses to (1) keep guns on the premises and (2) obviously keep them in such a manner that he can gain access to them.
Why didn't she get them the Fvck out of the house and get her son the help he so obviously needed.
If he had stolen her car and ploughed into a group of school kids at a bus stop do you think we should ban cars.
How strict can the gun controls be if she can own 5 and also take her son with a mental disability to the shooting range to practice?
Quote from: NetNitrate on December 16, 2012, 08:35:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2012, 03:04:43 PM
Oh FFS, we have a shooting and this gun control shite starts up again. CT has probably the strictest gun control laws in the flicking country. I know, I lived there for 5 years. (BTW I don't own a gun and don't want to either)
This lady has a mentally unstable adult son living under her roof, yet she chooses to (1) keep guns on the premises and (2) obviously keep them in such a manner that he can gain access to them.
Why didn't she get them the Fvck out of the house and get her son the help he so obviously needed.
If he had stolen her car and ploughed into a group of school kids at a bus stop do you think we should ban cars.
How strict can the gun controls be if she can own 5 and also take her son with a mental disability to the shooting range to practice?
I have a mate over here with two sons that have the same illness as the animal that killed these children, he wouldnt have a gun about the place and when he came to our place to do some work he insisted I get the gun offside before he would start (the older boy was with him) My point is that he keeps his kids as safe as possible regarding the use of guns and yer mans ma actually had him practicing with one at a shooting gallery, the mind boggles!
Quote from: stew on December 16, 2012, 10:57:41 PM
Quote from: NetNitrate on December 16, 2012, 08:35:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 15, 2012, 03:04:43 PM
Oh FFS, we have a shooting and this gun control shite starts up again. CT has probably the strictest gun control laws in the flicking country. I know, I lived there for 5 years. (BTW I don't own a gun and don't want to either)
This lady has a mentally unstable adult son living under her roof, yet she chooses to (1) keep guns on the premises and (2) obviously keep them in such a manner that he can gain access to them.
Why didn't she get them the Fvck out of the house and get her son the help he so obviously needed.
If he had stolen her car and ploughed into a group of school kids at a bus stop do you think we should ban cars.
How strict can the gun controls be if she can own 5 and also take her son with a mental disability to the shooting range to practice?
I have a mate over here with two sons that have the same illness as the animal that killed these children, he wouldnt have a gun about the place and when he came to our place to do some work he insisted I get the gun offside before he would start (the older boy was with him) My point is that he keeps his kids as safe as possible regarding the use of guns and yer mans ma actually had him practicing with one at a shooting gallery, the mind boggles!
Many years ago, one of my siblings went off the rails with drink. Then he fell in with the wrong crowd. Then that crowd got into a big beef with another shower of wamkers to the point of a shotgun (not ours) being produced. The oul fella got wind of what was going on, and his own shotgun was summarily deposited up to the Guards barracks-where for all I know it still resides today-and that was almost 20 years ago. In fact it's a big joke at family gatherings
Point is, all the laws in the land can legislate for stupidity.
http://www.nrawinningteam.com/scotttext.html
Thought this might give some context to the dialogue. Not saying I agree or disagree with him. I am in favor of gun control, even though my initial post may not have expressed that. But additional laws are not the only answer to a terrible dilemma we have found ourselves in
Those westboro lunatics at it again as well by the sounds of it.
Here's a South Carolina newspaper's coverage of the massacre at Sandy Hook alongside a huge ad for Christmas deals on Smith & Wesson handguns and assault rifles. They later issued an apology for the "unfortunate juxtaposition."
(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/guns_ad_screen-shot-2012-12-15-at-12.53.09-pm.png)
Quote from: Declan on December 17, 2012, 08:48:01 AM
Here's a South Carolina newspaper's coverage of the massacre at Sandy Hook alongside a huge ad for Christmas deals on Smith & Wesson handguns and assault rifles. They later issued an apology for the "unfortunate juxtaposition."
(http://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imce-images/guns_ad_screen-shot-2012-12-15-at-12.53.09-pm.png)
Unfooking real!!! Has to be the biggest fcuk up I've seen
The gun is so engrained into American culture, its hard to see what legislation would actually make a difference in the sort term.
Banning semi and fully automatic weapons would be a start, but that hasn't got a snowballs chance in hell of getting through senate.
I think they're really going to have to live with these types of murders for the foreseeable future.
I really cant see anything changing. There are few people that I have spoken to who will even admit there is a problem. They will point to all the excuses but never believe its the Guns. I'm in shock at it all. There has to be an element of brain washing over the years to get everyone to that point.
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2012, 02:43:21 AM
http://www.nrawinningteam.com/scotttext.html
Thought this might give some context to the dialogue. Not saying I agree or disagree with him. I am in favor of gun control, even though my initial post may not have expressed that. But additional laws are not the only answer to a terrible dilemma we have found ourselves in
Why do people keep saying this rubbish? It's mealy mouthed weasel words. Laws are the first thing that have to change. I accept there are other things that must be done but the time for kicking the can down the road on this is long gone. Face up to it.
Last Friday two madmen in two different Countries went into primary schools to attack children. In one Country 23 children were injured with a knife. In the other 20 children were killed with an assault rifle.
Looking at the end results of these 2 attacks it beggars belief that anyone could argue against gun control.
You cannot legislate against stupidity but you should legislate to prevent the stupid from having access to weapons.
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2012, 02:43:21 AM
http://www.nrawinningteam.com/scotttext.html
Thought this might give some context to the dialogue. Not saying I agree or disagree with him. I am in favor of gun control, even though my initial post may not have expressed that. But additional laws are not the only answer to a terrible dilemma we have found ourselves in
"We've refused to honor God, and in doing so we opened the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tradgedy occurs, politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that continue to erode away our personal and private liberties. "
There was no hatred in the US when god fearing white men were lynching niggas after Sunday service.
That article is a crock.
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2012, 04:09:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 17, 2012, 02:43:21 AM
http://www.nrawinningteam.com/scotttext.html
Thought this might give some context to the dialogue. Not saying I agree or disagree with him. I am in favor of gun control, even though my initial post may not have expressed that. But additional laws are not the only answer to a terrible dilemma we have found ourselves in
"We've refused to honor God, and in doing so we opened the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tradgedy occurs, politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that continue to erode away our personal and private liberties. "
There was no hatred in the US when god fearing white men were lynching niggas after Sunday service.
That article is a crock.
Ya. The "Christian right" in the US for want of a better term are among the most un-Christian people I have ever seen or heard anywhere.
Ireland has enough of the bigoted christian right, they just don't carry guns,
otherwise the ethnic underclass, Traveller homesteads, would be riddled with God's pellets.
What's up Stew?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4&feature=youtu.be#t=1m40s
Have always believed this. Instead the media are blaming video games
Good article that sums up a lot of what I have been feeling over the past month or so and the murder of young school children
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/us-killings-tragedies-pakistan-bug-splats
Quote from: give her dixie on December 18, 2012, 03:00:33 AM
Good article that sums up a lot of what I have been feeling over the past month or so and the murder of young school children
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/us-killings-tragedies-pakistan-bug-splats
Obama crying over dead children, as long as they are not Pakistani
QuoteYa. The "Christian right" in the US for want of a better term are among the most un-Christian people I have ever seen or heard anywhere
As an old teacher I've mine used say - some people are full of religion but have no Christianity.
I see the NRA have gone to ground as well.
Last Thursday, the National Rifle Association (NRA) boasted on their Twitter feed: "Did you hear? Our #facebook page reached 1.7 million "likes" today! Thanks for being a friend!".
On Saturday, one day after the massacre at the Newtown, Conn. elementary school, the NRA deactivated its Facebook page. And the NRA's main Twitter account has gone silent since Friday.
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said on NBC's "Meet the Press" that the NRA and its well-funded political operation is "vastly overrated" and was unable to prevent President Obama's re-election. "If Congress wasn't so afraid of the NRA — and I can show you that they have no reason to be — but if they were to stand up and do what was right for the American public, we'd all be a lot better off," the Mayor said.
Meanwhile, a just released Washington Post-ABC News poll done over the weekend shows that Americans favor stricter gun controls by a 54-43% with 3% having no opinion.
But last spring he wrote, "all of our freedoms, all of our rights, all of our values... All of them will be lost if Barack Obama is reelected." In an October column in the NRA's newsletter "First Freedom," LaPierre wrote: "With four more years of Obama, your firearms freedoms are gone. And we'll spend the rest of our lives mourning the freedoms we've lost... Every freedom we cherish as Americans is endangered by Obama. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Gun sales surge since this travesty. Crazy!! i hsve an american cousin and he is very much "pro gun& he reckons a change in the 2nd ammendment will infringe on their human rights. Also he says all teachers should be trained and armed. Its hard to make sense of these peoples views.
We only think we have protesting problems in the North.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/westboro-baptist-church-picket-connecticut-school-shooting_n_2312186.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/westboro-baptist-church-picket-connecticut-school-shooting_n_2312186.html)
Just proves there is no low these sickos won't stoop to.
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/dec/15/our-moloch/
Our Moloch
Garry Wills
Few crimes are more harshly forbidden in the Old Testament than sacrifice to the god Moloch (for which see Leviticus 18.21, 20.1-5). The sacrifice referred to was of living children consumed in the fires of offering to Moloch. Ever since then, worship of Moloch has been the sign of a deeply degraded culture. Ancient Romans justified the destruction of Carthage by noting that children were sacrificed to Moloch there. Milton represented Moloch as the first pagan god who joined Satan's war on humankind:
First Moloch, horrid king, besmear'd with blood
Of human sacrifice, and parents' tears,
Though for the noise of Drums and Timbrels loud
Their children's cries unheard, that pass'd through fire
To his grim idol. (Paradise Lost 1.392-96)
Read again those lines, with recent images seared into our brains—"besmeared with blood" and "parents' tears." They give the real meaning of what happened at Sandy Hook Elementary School Friday morning. That horror cannot be blamed just on one unhinged person. It was the sacrifice we as a culture made, and continually make, to our demonic god. We guarantee that crazed man after crazed man will have a flood of killing power readily supplied him. We have to make that offering, out of devotion to our Moloch, our god. The gun is our Moloch. We sacrifice children to him daily—sometimes, as at Sandy Hook, by directly throwing them into the fire-hose of bullets from our protected private killing machines, sometimes by blighting our children's lives by the death of a parent, a schoolmate, a teacher, a protector. Sometimes this is done by mass killings (eight this year), sometimes by private offerings to the god (thousands this year).
The gun is not a mere tool, a bit of technology, a political issue, a point of debate. It is an object of reverence. Devotion to it precludes interruption with the sacrifices it entails. Like most gods, it does what it will, and cannot be questioned. Its acolytes think it is capable only of good things. It guarantees life and safety and freedom. It even guarantees law. Law grows from it. Then how can law question it?
Its power to do good is matched by its incapacity to do anything wrong. It cannot kill. Thwarting the god is what kills. If it seems to kill, that is only because the god's bottomless appetite for death has not been adequately fed. The answer to problems caused by guns is more guns, millions of guns, guns everywhere, carried openly, carried secretly, in bars, in churches, in offices, in government buildings. Only the lack of guns can be a curse, not their beneficent omnipresence.
Adoration of Moloch permeates the country, imposing a hushed silence as he works his will. One cannot question his rites, even as the blood is gushing through the idol's teeth. The White House spokesman invokes the silence of traditional in religious ceremony. "It is not the time" to question Moloch. No time is right for showing disrespect for Moloch.
The fact that the gun is a reverenced god can be seen in its manifold and apparently resistless powers. How do we worship it? Let us count the ways:
1. It has the power to destroy the reasoning process. It forbids making logical connections. We are required to deny that there is any connection between the fact that we have the greatest number of guns in private hands and the greatest number of deaths from them. Denial on this scale always comes from or is protected by religious fundamentalism. Thus do we deny global warming, or evolution, or biblical errancy. Reason is helpless before such abject faith.
2. It has the power to turn all our politicians as a class into invertebrate and mute attendants at the shrine. None dare suggest that Moloch can in any way be reined in without being denounced by the pope of this religion, National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre, as trying to destroy Moloch, to take away all guns. They whimper and say they never entertained such heresy. Many flourish their guns while campaigning, or boast that they have themselves hunted "vermin." Better that the children die or their lives be blasted than that a politician should risk an election against the dread sentence of NRA excommunication.
3. It has the power to distort our constitutional thinking. It says that the right to "bear arms," a military term, gives anyone, anywhere in our country, the power to mow down civilians with military weapons. Even the Supreme Court has been cowed, reversing its own long history of recognizing that the Second Amendment applied to militias. Now the court feels bound to guarantee that any every madman can indulge his "religion" of slaughter. Moloch brooks no dissent, even from the highest court in the land.
Though LaPierre is the pope of this religion, its most successful Peter the Hermit, preaching the crusade for Moloch, was Charlton Heston, a symbol of the Americanism of loving guns. I have often thought that we should raise a statue of Heston at each of the many sites of multiple murders around our land. We would soon have armies of statues, whole droves of Heston acolytes standing sentry at the shrines of Moloch dotting the landscape. Molochism is the one religion that can never be separated from the state. The state itself bows down to Moloch, and protects the sacrifices made to him. So let us celebrate the falling bodies and rising statues as a demonstration of our fealty, our bondage, to the great god Gun.
December 15, 2012, 5:25 p.m.
Automatic machine guns legal in America, but Kinder surprise is illegal because it poses a threat to children!!
NRA statement coming on Friday
http://home.nra.org/pdf/StatementAdvisory.pdf (http://home.nra.org/pdf/StatementAdvisory.pdf)
NRA is made up of four million moms and dads, sons and daughters...........very touching
Is mom a real word??
Just watched Bowling of Columbine again there for the 2nd time ever after seeing it when it came out. Crazy stuff.
It's not as real as Mammy, though.
If you can stand it, Veronique Pozner's eulogy for her six-year-old son Noah at one of the first two funerals held for the Newtown victims.
"The sky is crying, and the flags are at half-mast. It is a sad, sad day. But it is also your day, Noah, my little man. I will miss your forceful and purposeful little steps stomping through our house. I will miss your perpetual smile, the twinkle in your dark blue eyes, framed by eyelashes that would be the envy of any lady in this room.
Most of all, I will miss your visions of your future. You wanted to be a doctor, a soldier, a taco factory manager. It was your favorite food, and no doubt you wanted to ensure that the world kept producing tacos.
You were a little boy whose life force had all the gravitational pull of a celestial body. You were light and love, mischief and pranks. You adored your family with every fiber of your 6-year-old being. We are all of us elevated in our humanity by having known you. A little maverick, who didn't always want to do his schoolwork or clean up his toys, when practicing his ninja moves or Super Mario on the Wii seemed far more important.
Noah, you will not pass through this way again. I can only believe that you were planted on Earth to bloom in heaven. Take flight, my boy. Soar. You now have the wings you always wanted. Go to that peaceful valley that we will all one day come to know. I will join you someday. Not today. I still have lots of mommy love to give to Danielle, Michael, Sophia and Arielle.
Until then, your melody will linger in our hearts forever. Momma loves you, little man."
The Republican Congressman for Virginia reckons if every school teacher in every school in the US was packing heat they will be able to avert massacres like Newtown.
I had to bow out of a discussion yesterday when it was suggested that I wanted to see more deaths by arguing against the same thing. The actual quote was "Do you think it was fair that the only person armed in that school was the gunman, and not the 6 adults who were killed"?
The first victim, Nancy Lanza, had many guns. That did not stop her becoming the first victim or prevent this tragedy from happening, in fact it contributed to what happened.
Adam Lanza tried to buy a gun a few days before but gun control laws prevented that from happening. However because Connecticut's laws allowed Nancy Lanza to purchase and keep semi automatic weapons at home, Adam Lanza was able to arm himself and kill his victims.
Quote from: Main Street on December 16, 2012, 07:32:52 PM
The part of Gary Younge's article I'd take exception to is this bit, just for the way that it implies that the Democrats are a pro-gun regulation party.
'The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it.'
Afaics, the Democrat party and the Republican party have equal culpability in the lack of political will to enforce gun control regulations.
Damn straight. well said main street.
Quote from: Puckoon on December 19, 2012, 07:44:48 PM
I had to bow out of a discussion yesterday when it was suggested that I wanted to see more deaths by arguing against the same thing. The actual quote was "Do you think it was fair that the only person armed in that school was the gunman, and not the 6 adults who were killed"?
Wisconsin is full to bursting with hunters, I just this afternoon fcuked off a friend of 17 years because he is very much pro NRA and owns several semi automatic weapons as well as pistols, rifles and big long fooking knives! he actually told me that " guns dont kill people.................people kill people"
We will be fine, he is a good lad but he can keep that sort of shite well away from me, those kids were not killed by words, they were killed by automatic gunfire in the hands of a madman who, although mentally challenged, was able to get weapons that killed near 30 people!
the NRA can kiss my arse, they are a shower of bastards.
When I was a nipper, my mammy told me never to play with fire.
I wonder why? Fire is a great thing to play with. Sure whats the worst that can happen?
Quote from: Orior on December 19, 2012, 09:36:44 PM
When I was a nipper, my mammy told me never to play with fire.
I wonder why? Fire is a great thing to play with. Sure whats the worst that can happen?
Mom???
We call it Ma up in this part of the world
Quote from: stew on December 19, 2012, 09:36:20 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on December 19, 2012, 07:44:48 PM
I had to bow out of a discussion yesterday when it was suggested that I wanted to see more deaths by arguing against the same thing. The actual quote was "Do you think it was fair that the only person armed in that school was the gunman, and not the 6 adults who were killed"?
Wisconsin is full to bursting with hunters, I just this afternoon fcuked off a friend of 17 years because he is very much pro NRA and owns several semi automatic weapons as well as pistols, rifles and big long fooking knives! he actually told me that " guns dont kill people.................people kill people"
We will be fine, he is a good lad but he can keep that sort of shite well away from me, those kids were not killed by words, they were killed by automatic gunfire in the hands of a madman who, although mentally challenged, was able to get weapons that killed near 30 people!
the NRA can kiss my arse, they are a shower of b**tards.
That sort of shite really pisses me off. Idiots.
In a lot of ways I really love the US but for all its greatness it gets some apparently simple things horrifically wrong.
Quote from: dec on December 19, 2012, 07:51:52 PM
The first victim, Nancy Lanza, had many guns. That did not stop her becoming the first victim or prevent this tragedy from happening, in fact it contributed to what happened.
Adam Lanza tried to buy a gun a few days before but gun control laws prevented that from happening. However because Connecticut's laws allowed Nancy Lanza to purchase and keep semi automatic weapons at home, Adam Lanza was able to arm himself and kill his victims.
There is that point that gun control laws did say that Adam Lanza was not allowed own a gun, and that guns were not allowed in that school building. Yet Lanza still got around those laws. If gun control laws were stricter would a psycho like him still have found a way to get a gun? It would have been more difficult for sure.
For all the focus on the USA, the easy access to guns, gun culture, massacres, backwardness, extreme right wingers and religious nut cases, it's pale in comparison to what has gone on across Europe, post WW2.
Quote from: theticklemister on December 19, 2012, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 19, 2012, 09:36:44 PM
When I was a nipper, my mammy told me never to play with fire.
I wonder why? Fire is a great thing to play with. Sure whats the worst that can happen?
Mom???
We call it Ma up in this part of the world
How do you know my Mammy? :(
Quote from: dec on December 19, 2012, 07:51:52 PM
The first victim, Nancy Lanza, had many guns. That did not stop her becoming the first victim or prevent this tragedy from happening, in fact it contributed to what happened.
Adam Lanza tried to buy a gun a few days before but gun control laws prevented that from happening. However because Connecticut's laws allowed Nancy Lanza to purchase and keep semi automatic weapons at home, Adam Lanza was able to arm himself and kill his victims.
I have an American facebook friend who is an active member of the NRA. They believe that we Europeans are still under the thumb of royalty and government, whereas the USA government will never push them, because they have guns.
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 19, 2012, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: stew on December 19, 2012, 09:36:20 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on December 19, 2012, 07:44:48 PM
I had to bow out of a discussion yesterday when it was suggested that I wanted to see more deaths by arguing against the same thing. The actual quote was "Do you think it was fair that the only person armed in that school was the gunman, and not the 6 adults who were killed"?
Wisconsin is full to bursting with hunters, I just this afternoon fcuked off a friend of 17 years because he is very much pro NRA and owns several semi automatic weapons as well as pistols, rifles and big long fooking knives! he actually told me that " guns dont kill people.................people kill people"
We will be fine, he is a good lad but he can keep that sort of shite well away from me, those kids were not killed by words, they were killed by automatic gunfire in the hands of a madman who, although mentally challenged, was able to get weapons that killed near 30 people!
the NRA can kiss my arse, they are a shower of b**tards.
That sort of shite really pisses me off. Idiots.
In a lot of ways I really love the US but for all its greatness it gets some apparently simple things horrifically wrong.
This is the ultimate con.
I stop them at 'guns don't kill people...' and ask what the official cause of death was?
In the last few day I got a 'spoons made me fat' reply to the above.
I asked 'were spoons the cause of your obesity or the juggernaught of food that the spoon transported to your mouth? Oh and the bullets the gun transported to those children were the cause of death'.
Well done to the protester who just stood up at the NRA press conference with a banner
"NRA killing our kids"
http://news.yahoo.com/video/giffords-too-many-children-dying-154325412.html