New Centre of excellence being open tomorrow in Mayo. Does Leinster and Munster have something similar? Meath have a great training base, think that is just their County training grounds and nothng else.
Tyrone are developing one at the minute ,not sure if that is being used for both Tyone and the rest of Ulster. Great idea for under - age development Squads etc.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=182194
Prenty will have a fine office to run Connacht from :D
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 07, 2012, 04:57:45 PM
New Centre of excellence being open tomorrow in Mayo. Does Leinster and Munster have something similar? Meath have a great training base, think that is just their County training grounds and nothng else.
Tyrone are developing one at the minute ,not sure if that is being used for both Tyone and the rest of Ulster. Great idea for under - age development Squads etc.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=182194
Derry have had one for 20 odd years. Think even Fermanagh have one at this stage.
Vanity project for Prenty by and large. Who's going to use it, bar the odd schools for matches?
Quote from: mouview on December 07, 2012, 08:55:48 PM
Vanity project for Prenty by and large. Who's going to use it, bar the odd schools for matches?
Clubs from all over Mayo probably. Knockmore U-21s were due to play Castlebar U-21s in a relatively neutral venue. Next thing they dragged the two teams up to the Centre of Excellence. I can see this happening a lot from now on.
These opening ceremony things are just a junket for the back-slappers, Bekan has been open for a year. This is even the second opening for the same complex, were the lads not able to pry the door open the first time around?
Quote from: Syferus on December 07, 2012, 09:48:10 PM
These opening ceremony things are just a junket for the back-slappers, Balekan has been open for a year.
C'est la vie.
Quote from: mouview on December 07, 2012, 08:55:48 PM
Vanity project for Prenty by and large. Who's going to use it, bar the odd schools for matches?
I think that is a ridiculous statement. How can having a centre like this not be good for promotion of Gaelic Games.
You can invite underage teams in and play blitz competitions from clubs or schools or whatever on a one day event for starters. A few quality pitches around a quality clubhouse. What parents going along wouldnt be impressed with that and getting to see their good run around in such good facilities.
I would imaging development squads from the counties in Connacht will also be keen to use it.
If County teams are stuck for somewhere to train or play a game I would imaging they can use the facilities as well.
Seriously don't understand why anyone from Connacht wouldn't be delighted with the creation of such a fine facility.
Can't imagine it will be used much from a Galway perspective. The footballers already have their own very similiar centre of excellence (no jokes please) in Loughgeorge. The hurlers wouldn't go near the place to be honest. It's way out of their jurisdiction.
Will north Galway clubs use it who knows? I doubt it considering it's still out of their way no matter what. Might be used more at underage level maybe. For the odd match. Not sure that warrants the expense.
Hard to disagree with the thesis that this is a Prenty led Disneyland. I mean why not split the funds between the counties and let them do their own thing?
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 08, 2012, 03:24:30 AM
Can't imagine it will be used much from a Galway perspective. The footballers already have their own very similiar centre of excellence (no jokes please) in Loughgeorge. The hurlers wouldn't go near the place to be honest. It's way out of their jurisdiction.
Will north Galway clubs use it who knows? I doubt it considering it's still out of their way no matter what. Might be used more at underage level maybe. For the odd match. Not sure that warrants the expense.
Hard to disagree with the thesis that this is a Prenty led Disneyland. I mean why not split the funds between the counties and let them do their own thing?
exactly
the centre will be used for underage county blitzes, college games, third level games
if there was a smaller centre in each county, they could cater for all of these.
Quote from: neilthemac on December 08, 2012, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 08, 2012, 03:24:30 AM
Can't imagine it will be used much from a Galway perspective. The footballers already have their own very similiar centre of excellence (no jokes please) in Loughgeorge. The hurlers wouldn't go near the place to be honest. It's way out of their jurisdiction.
Will north Galway clubs use it who knows? I doubt it considering it's still out of their way no matter what. Might be used more at underage level maybe. For the odd match. Not sure that warrants the expense.
Hard to disagree with the thesis that this is a Prenty led Disneyland. I mean why not split the funds between the counties and let them do their own thing?
exactly
the centre will be used for underage county blitzes, college games, third level games
if there was a smaller centre in each county, they could cater for all of these.
Maybe not every County can afford to spend "big" or any sort of figure with the way the economy is. Hence having one in each Province so it can cater for all Counties. Obviously it would be more beneficial if each County had one.
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 08, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
Quote from: neilthemac on December 08, 2012, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 08, 2012, 03:24:30 AM
Can't imagine it will be used much from a Galway perspective. The footballers already have their own very similiar centre of excellence (no jokes please) in Loughgeorge. The hurlers wouldn't go near the place to be honest. It's way out of their jurisdiction.
Will north Galway clubs use it who knows? I doubt it considering it's still out of their way no matter what. Might be used more at underage level maybe. For the odd match. Not sure that warrants the expense.
Hard to disagree with the thesis that this is a Prenty led Disneyland. I mean why not split the funds between the counties and let them do their own thing?
exactly
the centre will be used for underage county blitzes, college games, third level games
if there was a smaller centre in each county, they could cater for all of these.
Maybe not every County can afford to spend "big" or any sort of figure with the way the economy is. Hence having one in each Province so it can cater for all Counties. Obviously it would be more beneficial if each County had one.
Sligo are half way through developing theirs
Roscommon have already bought the land for one, but nothing else done.
Galway have one for football, the hurling one was abandoned due to the financial constraints (they have the land though)
Leitrim have built theirs in Annaduff
So, the only county that had no plans or land bought were...... Mayo
And where was the Connacht Centre built??? MAYO!
Quote from: neilthemac on December 08, 2012, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 08, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
Quote from: neilthemac on December 08, 2012, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 08, 2012, 03:24:30 AM
Can't imagine it will be used much from a Galway perspective. The footballers already have their own very similiar centre of excellence (no jokes please) in Loughgeorge. The hurlers wouldn't go near the place to be honest. It's way out of their jurisdiction.
Will north Galway clubs use it who knows? I doubt it considering it's still out of their way no matter what. Might be used more at underage level maybe. For the odd match. Not sure that warrants the expense.
Hard to disagree with the thesis that this is a Prenty led Disneyland. I mean why not split the funds between the counties and let them do their own thing?
exactly
the centre will be used for underage county blitzes, college games, third level games
if there was a smaller centre in each county, they could cater for all of these.
Maybe not every County can afford to spend "big" or any sort of figure with the way the economy is. Hence having one in each Province so it can cater for all Counties. Obviously it would be more beneficial if each County had one.
Sligo are half way through developing theirs
Roscommon have already bought the land for one, but nothing else done.
Galway have one for football, the hurling one was abandoned due to the financial constraints (they have the land though)
Leitrim have built theirs in Annaduff
So, the only county that had no plans or land bought were...... Mayo
And where was the Connacht Centre built??? MAYO!
Before you go off on your conspiracy story, if Mayo wanted one for Mayo surely somewhere like Castlebar, Breaffy, Islandeady, Ballintubber, Mayo Abbey, Balla, Ballyheane etc. would be a more central location for the whole county.
This thing won''t be of much use to an awful lot of Galway, Sligo, Laythrum, Roscommon or indeed many parts of Mayo.
If each County had been given 20% of what was spent on this to develop their own then they'd all be happy.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
This thing won''t be of much use to an awful lot of Galway, Sligo, Laythrum, Roscommon or indeed many parts of Mayo.
If each County had been given 20% of what was spent on this to develop their own then they'd all be happy.
True, much of Mayo are hours away from East Mayo.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
This thing won''t be of much use to an awful lot of Galway, Sligo, Laythrum, Roscommon or indeed many parts of Mayo.
If each County had been given 20% of what was spent on this to develop their own then they'd all be happy.
It's on the feckin' Roscommon border. It's of plenty of use to Roscommon inter-county teams and plenty of the clubs in the county, especially after we apparently showed no interest in buying some time at Athlone IT's facilities and Westmeath swooped in and close that door shut.
It was obviously a money sink but we of all counties stand to benefit more than any outside of Mayo from it. Sligo made plenty of use of it too in the run-up to the championship. Bekan is as central a spot as you can get for something that is intended to serve most of Connacht and you were never going to make everyone happy with the location. What's been built is impressive.
Think before you spray your bullets all round the shop next time, desperado.
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2012, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
This thing won''t be of much use to an awful lot of Galway, Sligo, Laythrum, Roscommon or indeed many parts of Mayo.
If each County had been given 20% of what was spent on this to develop their own then they'd all be happy.
It's on the feckin' Roscommon border. It's of plenty of use to Roscommon inter-county teams and plenty of the clubs in the county, especially after we apparently showed no interest in buying some time at Athlone IT's facilities and Westmeath swooped in and close that door shut.
It was obviously a money sink but we of all counties stand to benefit more than any outside of Mayo from it. Sligo made plenty of use of it too in the run-up to the championship. What's been built is impressive.
Think before you spray your bullets all round the gaff next time, desperado.
Roscommon is probably the county with most of its county close to the site than any other, including Mayo. The likes of Louisburgh, Kiltane, Achill, Burrishoole, Belmullet, Westport, Lahardane, Kilmeena, Ballycroy, Ballycastle are probably as far or much farther away than any part of Roscommon.
Quote from: neilthemac on December 08, 2012, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 08, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
Quote from: neilthemac on December 08, 2012, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 08, 2012, 03:24:30 AM
Can't imagine it will be used much from a Galway perspective. The footballers already have their own very similiar centre of excellence (no jokes please) in Loughgeorge. The hurlers wouldn't go near the place to be honest. It's way out of their jurisdiction.
Will north Galway clubs use it who knows? I doubt it considering it's still out of their way no matter what. Might be used more at underage level maybe. For the odd match. Not sure that warrants the expense.
Hard to disagree with the thesis that this is a Prenty led Disneyland. I mean why not split the funds between the counties and let them do their own thing?
exactly
the centre will be used for underage county blitzes, college games, third level games
if there was a smaller centre in each county, they could cater for all of these.
Maybe not every County can afford to spend "big" or any sort of figure with the way the economy is. Hence having one in each Province so it can cater for all Counties. Obviously it would be more beneficial if each County had one.
Sligo are half way through developing theirs
Roscommon have already bought the land for one, but nothing else done.
Galway have one for football, the hurling one was abandoned due to the financial constraints (they have the land though)
Leitrim have built theirs in Annaduff
So, the only county that had no plans or land bought were...... Mayo
And where was the Connacht Centre built??? MAYO!
In a few years it probably be renamed Mayo Gaa centre or Prenty palace ;) i don't think Donegal had any centre of excellence to win this year's All Ireland
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2012, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2012, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
This thing won''t be of much use to an awful lot of Galway, Sligo, Laythrum, Roscommon or indeed many parts of Mayo.
If each County had been given 20% of what was spent on this to develop their own then they'd all be happy.
It's on the feckin' Roscommon border. It's of plenty of use to Roscommon inter-county teams and plenty of the clubs in the county, especially after we apparently showed no interest in buying some time at Athlone IT's facilities and Westmeath swooped in and close that door shut.
It was obviously a money sink but we of all counties stand to benefit more than any outside of Mayo from it. Sligo made plenty of use of it too in the run-up to the championship. What's been built is impressive.
Think before you spray your bullets all round the gaff next time, desperado.
Roscommon is probably the county with most of its county close to the site than any other, including Mayo. The likes of Louisburgh, Kiltane, Achill, Burrishoole, Belmullet, Westport, Lahardane, Kilmeena, Ballycroy, Ballycastle are probably as far or much farther away than any part of Roscommon.
According to google maps
Westport to GAA centre - 53.2 km, 51 mins
Achill to GAA centre - 96.0 km, 1 hour 37 mins
Belmullet to GAA centre - 110 km, 1 hour 39 mins
Kiltoom to Gaa Centre 1 hour 6 mins
A number of our senior,U21 players are living in Dublin i can't imagine they will be using this centre very often. Minors,U16,schools etc certainly will make use of it.
It's a long effin way from Arigna or Croghan over poor roads.
Syferus - you're still as silly as ever - just because you might live near Ballyhaunis doesn't mean the rest of us Rosfolk do .
Quote from: ross4life on December 08, 2012, 06:20:37 PM
Quote from: neilthemac on December 08, 2012, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 08, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
Quote from: neilthemac on December 08, 2012, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 08, 2012, 03:24:30 AM
Can't imagine it will be used much from a Galway perspective. The footballers already have their own very similiar centre of excellence (no jokes please) in Loughgeorge. The hurlers wouldn't go near the place to be honest. It's way out of their jurisdiction.
Will north Galway clubs use it who knows? I doubt it considering it's still out of their way no matter what. Might be used more at underage level maybe. For the odd match. Not sure that warrants the expense.
Hard to disagree with the thesis that this is a Prenty led Disneyland. I mean why not split the funds between the counties and let them do their own thing?
exactly
the centre will be used for underage county blitzes, college games, third level games
if there was a smaller centre in each county, they could cater for all of these.
Maybe not every County can afford to spend "big" or any sort of figure with the way the economy is. Hence having one in each Province so it can cater for all Counties. Obviously it would be more beneficial if each County had one.
Sligo are half way through developing theirs
Roscommon have already bought the land for one, but nothing else done.
Galway have one for football, the hurling one was abandoned due to the financial constraints (they have the land though)
Leitrim have built theirs in Annaduff
So, the only county that had no plans or land bought were...... Mayo
And where was the Connacht Centre built??? MAYO!
In a few years it probably be renamed Mayo Gaa centre or Prenty palace ;) i don't think Donegal had any centre of excellence to win this year's All Ireland
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2012, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2012, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
This thing won''t be of much use to an awful lot of Galway, Sligo, Laythrum, Roscommon or indeed many parts of Mayo.
If each County had been given 20% of what was spent on this to develop their own then they'd all be happy.
It's on the feckin' Roscommon border. It's of plenty of use to Roscommon inter-county teams and plenty of the clubs in the county, especially after we apparently showed no interest in buying some time at Athlone IT's facilities and Westmeath swooped in and close that door shut.
It was obviously a money sink but we of all counties stand to benefit more than any outside of Mayo from it. Sligo made plenty of use of it too in the run-up to the championship. What's been built is impressive.
Think before you spray your bullets all round the gaff next time, desperado.
Roscommon is probably the county with most of its county close to the site than any other, including Mayo. The likes of Louisburgh, Kiltane, Achill, Burrishoole, Belmullet, Westport, Lahardane, Kilmeena, Ballycroy, Ballycastle are probably as far or much farther away than any part of Roscommon.
According to google maps
Westport to GAA centre - 53.2 km, 51 mins
Achill to GAA centre - 96.0 km, 1 hour 37 mins
Belmullet to GAA centre - 110 km, 1 hour 39 mins
Kiltoom to Gaa Centre 1 hour 6 mins
A number of our senior,U21 players are living in Dublin i can't imagine they will be using this centre very often. Minors,U16,schools etc certainly will make use of it.
Did you not just prove my point, Westport was the closest club I chose. The rest are clearly further away. All the counties in Connacht have players in Dublin, if it was a few kilometres across the border in Roscommon it wouldn't be much closer to Dublin.
Have you seen the roads in West and North Mayo!!!
MGHU you were trying to tell us that Mayo was Russia like in size "hours away" yes i know West/North Mayo roads afterall i have traveled them frequently & the road on the way to the Connacht GAA centre isn't much better.
Every county in Connacht has players based in Dublin but i'd be surprised if we didn't have the most based there & John Evans will more than likely set up training close to Athlone than bekan.
Quote from: ross4life on December 08, 2012, 09:00:14 PM
MGHU you were trying to tell us that Mayo was Russia like in size "hours away" yes i know West/North Mayo roads afterall i have traveled them frequently & the road on the way to the Connacht GAA centre isn't much better.
Every county in Connacht has players based in Dublin but i'd be surprised if we didn't have the most based there & John Evans will more than likely set up training close to Athlone than bekan.
Clare Island and Inishturk are hours aways ;D & we both got Gas reserves.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2012, 06:43:01 PM
It's a long effin way from Arigna or Croghan over poor roads.
Syferus - you're still as silly as ever - just because you might live near Ballyhaunis doesn't mean the rest of us Rosfolk do .
When that's that best you can spring you know you're trawling the depths for examples. The location is perfectly fine for Roscommon, more so than almost any other county that'll be using it. You'd try and find reasons to complain about the location if they built it in the centre of Roscommon and painted it primrose and blue. ::)
Obviously the seniors and maybe u21s won't be able to have collective training there very often (the same as everyone else's, then) but almost any club or underage team can get a whole hell of alot of use out of it.
A ridiculous white elephant.
The only clubs getting benefit will be the handful around Ballyhaunis. Most clubs around struggle to get 8-9 players midweek for training and damn all more for weekends. Having to travel to training will hardly improve this situation. As well as this - I can't think of a club in Connacht that doesn't have at least rudimentary floodlighting for training. The top clubs which might have good numbers already have excellent facilities and arent going to be adding to their current expenditure
Counties wise- Mayo are the only beneficiary here.
Galway already have their centre in Loughgeorge, while its at least an hour travel from Hurling country down there.
Leitrim already train outside their county in Westmeath as most of their players are based in Dublin.
Sligo may find some benefit but will hardly impose extra travelling on their players.
Roscommon also have a large portion of their players in either Galway or Dublin.
Previously Galway trained in Ballinasloe which still meant a four hour roundtrip for the likes of de Paor and O Domhnall for example - to accommodate Dublin based players.
for sure Colleges games and the odd Sigerson fixture but a simple set up with two good pitches and basic dressing rooms and meeting space could have been put together for a lot less than 1m.
This is as stated elsewhere - nothing more than a Prenty vanity project - One of the most dispicable "Celtic Tiger" decisions within the GAA. 10 flippin million???
2 million would go a long way towards a cracking setup in each of the counties.
It has to one of the biggest disgraceful vanity projects in the history of the gaa. All the counties in connacht are building their own centres and this disgrace has taken money funded for them away into this. All the connacht counties should of got 2 million each simple as that. Sligos is currently being built in strandhill. Prenty should be held to account but that man holds so much power in the gaa, he single handed got the stupid handpass rule through congress and he gets 8 million for a waste of space when other counties within his jurisdiction are trying to build there own and have to somehow fund some of it themselves...
It would have made a lot more sense alright if the money was split for each county. I wasn't aware that the other Counties had one in place or in the developing stages. There is nothing like this in Cavan, training base is at Breffni and that is the training pitch and a 3g pitch, but its nothing compared to Meath, Monaghan etc.
Cavan were actually the First county in Ireland to have a 3G pitch, but its hardly a Centre of Excellence when most Counties have 4/5 training pitches.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on December 09, 2012, 09:14:39 AM
It . All the connacht counties should of got 2 million each
FFS this is reacing epidemic proportions - now even got as far as Sligo
Was down in ballyhaunis at a match few week ago, its a fantastic pitch and its huge however no one there could figure out who was really going to get the use out of it.
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 09, 2012, 12:17:14 PM
Cavan were actually the First county in Ireland to have a 3G pitch, but its hardly a Centre of Excellence when most Counties have 4/5 training pitches.
Cavans 3g pitch is no different than what's in ballyhaunis. Its just a pitch and plenty of games have been on the 3g in breffni so its not just a training pitch.
Quote from: Itchy on December 09, 2012, 05:33:10 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 09, 2012, 12:17:14 PM
Cavan were actually the First county in Ireland to have a 3G pitch, but its hardly a Centre of Excellence when most Counties have 4/5 training pitches.
Cavans 3g pitch is no different than what's in ballyhaunis. Its just a pitch and plenty of games have been on the 3g in breffni so its not just a training pitch.
Of course yeah, they didn't build it for the craic. It had actually causesd a lot on Injuries to players, u21 games two weeks ago, The Assan Gaels centre back landed on the hard surface and injured his shoulder. Advantage that it cane be used all year round but big risk of injuries too.
Great news for Mayo GAA.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2012, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on December 09, 2012, 09:14:39 AM
It . All the connacht counties should of got 2 million each
FFS this is reacing epidemic proportions - now even got as far as Sligo
It's worse than I thought. I did a search of gaaboard for "had of". It returns 15 pages of hits! "Could of" and "should of" give 9 pages and "would of" 17 pages! That's 483 times somebody typed "would of". I wouldn't HAVE dreamed that was possible.
Forget the apostrophe campaign. This is totally out of control. There's only one thing for it. A league table of offenders is coming.
I taught it would of been better than that Hardy.
Quote from: Hardy on December 10, 2012, 06:43:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2012, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on December 09, 2012, 09:14:39 AM
It . All the connacht counties should of got 2 million each
FFS this is reacing epidemic proportions - now even got as far as Sligo
It's worse than I thought. I did a search of gaaboard for "had of". It returns 15 pages of hits! "Could of" and "should of" give 9 pages and "would of" 17 pages! That's 483 times somebody typed "would of". I wouldn't HAVE dreamed that was possible.
Forget the apostrophe campaign. This is totally out of control. There's only one thing for it. A league table of offenders is coming.
Good man Hardy.
Quote from: Hardy on December 10, 2012, 06:43:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2012, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on December 09, 2012, 09:14:39 AM
It . All the connacht counties should of got 2 million each
FFS this is reacing epidemic proportions - now even got as far as Sligo
It's worse than I thought. I did a search of gaaboard for "had of". It returns 15 pages of hits! "Could of" and "should of" give 9 pages and "would of" 17 pages! That's 483 times somebody typed "would of". I wouldn't HAVE dreamed that was possible.
Forget the apostrophe campaign. This is totally out of control. There's only one thing for it. A league table of offenders is coming.
What are you on about, most people from Meath can't spell their name.
Quote from: Syferus on December 08, 2012, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
This thing won''t be of much use to an awful lot of Galway, Sligo, Laythrum, Roscommon or indeed many parts of Mayo.
If each County had been given 20% of what was spent on this to develop their own then they'd all be happy.
It's on the feckin' Roscommon border. It's of plenty of use to Roscommon inter-county teams and plenty of the clubs in the county, especially after we apparently showed no interest in buying some time at Athlone IT's facilities and Westmeath swooped in and close that door shut.
It was obviously a money sink but we of all counties stand to benefit more than any outside of Mayo from it. Sligo made plenty of use of it too in the run-up to the championship. Bekan is as central a spot as you can get for something that is intended to serve most of Connacht and you were never going to make everyone happy with the location. What's been built is impressive.
Think before you spray your bullets all round the shop next time, desperado.
Spot on Syferus., yer dead right on all counts. The centre is indeed an impressive setup and I wish those behind it every success.
I listened to an RTE interview last week where John Tobin was questioned about the role of the centre in developing football standards wet of the Shannon.Now, as a former Galway player and Rossie manager, not even the most blinkered conspiracist on here, or anywhere else for that matter, could claim John was a dyed-in-the-wool Mayo supporter.(There are at least four other counties in the bloody province and all supported the setting up of this "white elephant." Headquarters parted with almost five million smackers to help make the project a reality.
Here's the link for anyone interested.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/809/357508/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/809/357508/)
I think John presented the case for the establishment of the new complex very well indeed.
Other than to say that Connacht has nothing to compare with the likes of Jordanstown, DCU and Ul, I don't think I can add much to what Tobin, the Connacht coach, has to say.
(I have also heard that Sligo are making great use of the facilities.)
QuoteI think John presented the case for the establishment of the new complex very well indeed.
Not really. His main point is that its within 40 miles of 91 GAA clubs.
Whats the point of that? Ill re iterate the point that clubs struggle to get number at training at the best of times, they're not going to get numbers down if the move training 20 miles down the road.
The facility itself, I've no doubt is impressive, but it remains a waste of money that could have been spent on individual counties.
A centre of excellence for Connacht Rugby or Connacht Athletics may have been beneficial but clubs have their own facilities
If your a good player you ll probably make and underage county team and train with them at the county facilities.
Athletics and rugby have far fewer teams and could do with a central location.
Most "Gaels" when asked where they're from will say they're county and if pushed their parish/club. They will not say "I'm a Connacht man" The railway cup is hardly an event that draws the masses.
And of course John Tobin is praising it - Connacht GAA are paying his wages....
This has nothing to do with allegiances, though, it's about training and player development. All it being a Connacht GAA facility means is that Connacht counties and clubs will be able to avail of preferential treatment and costs. Alot of clubs have very poor facilities and access to something like this can be a godsend for an ambitious panel or manager.
I imagine a huge amount of clubs and county teams will be using it for special training sessions in the years to come, I can't see that it was intended as a full-time base for anyone. A few extra minutes on the road really matters for very little in those situations, it's not like most clubs will be making four weekly pilgrimages to Bekan. It's akin to those overseas training trips without the insane costs associated.
I agree it cost too much, that the money maybe would have been better spent building five separate facilities in each of the counties, but honestly all of that is moot now - it's here and it has plenty of value no matter how many nay-sayers want to say otherwise.
Costly but far from the worst thing the money could have been spent on.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 11, 2012, 12:46:00 AM
QuoteI think John presented the case for the establishment of the new complex very well indeed.
Not really. His main point is that its within 40 miles of 91 GAA clubs.
Whats the point of that? Ill re iterate the point that clubs struggle to get number at training at the best of times, they're not going to get numbers down if the move training 20 miles down the road.
The facility itself, I've no doubt is impressive, but it remains a waste of money that could have been spent on individual counties.
A centre of excellence for Connacht Rugby or Connacht Athletics may have been beneficial but clubs have their own facilities
If your a good player you ll probably make and underage county team and train with them at the county facilities.
Athletics and rugby have far fewer teams and could do with a central location.
Most "Gaels" when asked where they're from will say they're county and if pushed their parish/club. They will not say "I'm a Connacht man" The railway cup is hardly an event that draws the masses.
And of course John Tobin is praising it - Connacht GAA are paying his wages....
When I first heard of the plans, I too thought it was crazy to even consider them seriously.
Then I examined the proposal;s, took a good look at the situation on the ground, as it were and came to the conclusion that it was a case of wanting but needing a centre of excellence for the entire province and the sooner the better.
Without a doubt, the overall standard of football in Connacht lags behind that of the other provinces and the gap is widening.
How many senior All Irelands have come west in the last ten years? Not one.
Connacht fared a bit better in the u21 championships with Galway winning two and Mayo one.
At minor level the Rossies won one in 2006 and that was that. Not a Junior title in that period either.
What about All-Star awards?
In this period (2012- 2003) Mayo won a total of 9, with 4 of them coming this year and Sligo got one in 2010. That's out of as total of 150!
(BTW, these stats have come from GAA.ie and I am assuming they are correct.)
Now, if we accept that all players would strive to at least play for their county, you'd have to say that the intercounty standard in Connacht isn't too hot.
Should each county go it alone as they have been doing since the founding of the GAA?
A look at the figures above would suggest otherwise.
IMO. there isn't a hope in hell that each county could go it alone and establish its own centre of excellence. It's going to be hard enough for the five of them to come up with its share of the bill as it is.
Besides, none of them could hope to come up with similar facilities to those at Jordanstown, DCU or the University of Limerick. That's the standard to aim at- anything else is a waste of money. Now it is said that it would be a better idea to divide the money involved between the counties and let them do their own thing with it.
I really can't take that seriously. Who would provide the money in the first place?
ASAIK, the GAA provided less than half the funds required. Where would the other million or so come from?
As I see it, the five county boards decided on a common plan of action, approached HQ and got not only backing but funding also from there.
Now, if all the CBs think it's a good idea and the Central Council has backed it, that's good enough for me.
With regard to what John Tobin has to say, it could be a case of him singing for his dinner or his wages or it could be that he is stating facts. Somehow, I'm inclined to go with the latter.
Quote from: Hardy on December 10, 2012, 06:43:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2012, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on December 09, 2012, 09:14:39 AM
It . All the connacht counties should of got 2 million each
FFS this is reacing epidemic proportions - now even got as far as Sligo
It's worse than I thought. I did a search of gaaboard for "had of". It returns 15 pages of hits! "Could of" and "should of" give 9 pages and "would of" 17 pages! That's 483 times somebody typed "would of". I wouldn't HAVE dreamed that was possible.
Forget the apostrophe campaign. This is totally out of control. There's only one thing for it. A league table of offenders is coming.
Will make a change from the usual Christmas top ten tables. Should of cleared it with Billy though.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 11, 2012, 11:41:47 AM
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 11, 2012, 12:46:00 AM
QuoteI think John presented the case for the establishment of the new complex very well indeed.
Not really. His main point is that its within 40 miles of 91 GAA clubs.
Whats the point of that? Ill re iterate the point that clubs struggle to get number at training at the best of times, they're not going to get numbers down if the move training 20 miles down the road.
The facility itself, I've no doubt is impressive, but it remains a waste of money that could have been spent on individual counties.
A centre of excellence for Connacht Rugby or Connacht Athletics may have been beneficial but clubs have their own facilities
If your a good player you ll probably make and underage county team and train with them at the county facilities.
Athletics and rugby have far fewer teams and could do with a central location.
Most "Gaels" when asked where they're from will say they're county and if pushed their parish/club. They will not say "I'm a Connacht man" The railway cup is hardly an event that draws the masses.
And of course John Tobin is praising it - Connacht GAA are paying his wages....
When I first heard of the plans, I too thought it was crazy to even consider them seriously.
Then I examined the proposal;s, took a good look at the situation on the ground, as it were and came to the conclusion that it was a case of wanting but needing a centre of excellence for the entire province and the sooner the better.
Without a doubt, the overall standard of football in Connacht lags behind that of the other provinces and the gap is widening.
How many senior All Irelands have come west in the last ten years? Not one.
Connacht fared a bit better in the u21 championships with Galway winning two and Mayo one.
At minor level the Rossies won one in 2006 and that was that. Not a Junior title in that period either.What about All-Star awards?
In this period (2012- 2003) Mayo won a total of 9, with 4 of them coming this year and Sligo got one in 2010. That's out of as total of 150!
(BTW, these stats have come from GAA.ie and I am assuming they are correct.)
Now, if we accept that all players would strive to at least play for their county, you'd have to say that the intercounty standard in Connacht isn't too hot.
Should each county go it alone as they have been doing since the founding of the GAA?
A look at the figures above would suggest otherwise.
IMO. there isn't a hope in hell that each county could go it alone and establish its own centre of excellence. It's going to be hard enough for the five of them to come up with its share of the bill as it is.
Besides, none of them could hope to come up with similar facilities to those at Jordanstown, DCU or the University of Limerick. That's the standard to aim at- anything else is a waste of money. Now it is said that it would be a better idea to divide the money involved between the counties and let them do their own thing with it.
I really can't take that seriously. Who would provide the money in the first place?
ASAIK, the GAA provided less than half the funds required. Where would the other million or so come from?
As I see it, the five county boards decided on a common plan of action, approached HQ and got not only backing but funding also from there.
Now, if all the CBs think it's a good idea and the Central Council has backed it, that's good enough for me.
With regard to what John Tobin has to say, it could be a case of him singing for his dinner or his wages or it could be that he is stating facts. Somehow, I'm inclined to go with the latter.
We won the Junior AI in 2010.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 11, 2012, 11:41:47 AM
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 11, 2012, 12:46:00 AM
QuoteI think John presented the case for the establishment of the new complex very well indeed.
Not really. His main point is that its within 40 miles of 91 GAA clubs.
Whats the point of that? Ill re iterate the point that clubs struggle to get number at training at the best of times, they're not going to get numbers down if the move training 20 miles down the road.
The facility itself, I've no doubt is impressive, but it remains a waste of money that could have been spent on individual counties.
A centre of excellence for Connacht Rugby or Connacht Athletics may have been beneficial but clubs have their own facilities
If your a good player you ll probably make and underage county team and train with them at the county facilities.
Athletics and rugby have far fewer teams and could do with a central location.
Most "Gaels" when asked where they're from will say they're county and if pushed their parish/club. They will not say "I'm a Connacht man" The railway cup is hardly an event that draws the masses.
And of course John Tobin is praising it - Connacht GAA are paying his wages....
When I first heard of the plans, I too thought it was crazy to even consider them seriously.
Then I examined the proposal;s, took a good look at the situation on the ground, as it were and came to the conclusion that it was a case of wanting but needing a centre of excellence for the entire province and the sooner the better.
Without a doubt, the overall standard of football in Connacht lags behind that of the other provinces and the gap is widening.
How many senior All Irelands have come west in the last ten years? Not one.
Connacht fared a bit better in the u21 championships with Galway winning two and Mayo one.
At minor level the Rossies won one in 2006 and that was that. Not a Junior title in that period either.
What about All-Star awards?
In this period (2012- 2003) Mayo won a total of 9, with 4 of them coming this year and Sligo got one in 2010. That's out of as total of 150!
(BTW, these stats have come from GAA.ie and I am assuming they are correct.)
Now, if we accept that all players would strive to at least play for their county, you'd have to say that the intercounty standard in Connacht isn't too hot.
Should each county go it alone as they have been doing since the founding of the GAA?
A look at the figures above would suggest otherwise.
IMO. there isn't a hope in hell that each county could go it alone and establish its own centre of excellence. It's going to be hard enough for the five of them to come up with its share of the bill as it is.
Besides, none of them could hope to come up with similar facilities to those at Jordanstown, DCU or the University of Limerick. That's the standard to aim at- anything else is a waste of money. Now it is said that it would be a better idea to divide the money involved between the counties and let them do their own thing with it.
I really can't take that seriously. Who would provide the money in the first place?
ASAIK, the GAA provided less than half the funds required. Where would the other million or so come from?
As I see it, the five county boards decided on a common plan of action, approached HQ and got not only backing but funding also from there.
Now, if all the CBs think it's a good idea and the Central Council has backed it, that's good enough for me.
With regard to what John Tobin has to say, it could be a case of him singing for his dinner or his wages or it could be that he is stating facts. Somehow, I'm inclined to go with the latter.
1. We can manipulate the statistics to suit any argument. (A) Leinster have only won one All Ireland in the last 10 years.
(B) Over the last 15 years Connacht have won 2 All Irelands, the same as Leinster .
U21 is an even spread through the provinces. Ulster dominated the Minor grade with the other three provinces winning twice each.
2. John Tobin - stating facts.I never said otherwise. The facts he stated were about this place being open to everyone and being a top class facility. He stated that 91 clubs were within a 40 mile radius - Where have I disputed this? The fact is he is not impartial in this.
3. Should each county go it alone? Of course they should - As I stated you play for you club or your county or both it makes no sense organising on a provincial level.
How exactly will this improve the standard in Connacht?
Will the top U16 players int he province be brought to the centre on a regular basis? If so, when - Presumably these players will also be on their county development panels So your adding an extra representative level at a time when we're doing so much to curb over training.
4. FinanceWho is "The GAA" ? The GAA financed all of this project. Central Council financed 4 million , Connacht Council finance the rest. This is all GAA money. So the answer your question, instead of earmarking 4 million for this, they give each of the five counties 800 000 . Connacht Council give each county 400 000 .
5. Standard of FacilityThe biggest benefit is to have a permanent place to train besides looking for club grounds constantly.
1 million would go a hell of a long way . Look at the prices of property - 10 000 per acre is the highest price you ll pay for land. 30 acres therefore is about 300 000. 300 000 will also build a superb gymnasium / meeting rooms / lecture halls.
Car parking & Floodlighting add another 250 000. two pitches at 25 000 each is 50 000.
That leaves 300 000 to install a prunty pitch ... and Im being generous in these amounts - It could be done for far less.
Pitches - budget 100 000 ea
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 01:08:14 AM
This has nothing to do with allegiances, though, it's about training and player development. All it being a Connacht GAA facility means is that Connacht counties and clubs will be able to avail of preferential treatment and costs. Alot of clubs have very poor facilities and access to something like this can be a godsend for an ambitious panel or manager.
I imagine a huge amount of clubs and county teams will be using it for special training sessions in the years to come, I can't see that it was intended as a full-time base for anyone. A few extra minutes on the road really matters for very little in those situations, it's not like most clubs will be making four weekly pilgrimages to Bekan. It's akin to those overseas training trips without the insane costs associated.
With respect Syferus, you don't seem to have your finger on the pulse at grassroots level the way Brian Boru has. Many clubs these days have at least feasible or adequate facilities to train on. The greater challenge for the clubs is to get all their players together training on week nights and at weekends. This can be hard enough at the best of times training at home. It would be folly for clubs to go to the expense of hiring a bus, the risk of not been able to get the whole squad together, and the time taken to drive a good hour, if not more, to a training centre that may be many miles from your own base, train for an hour plus, tog in and drive another hour or more home. What possible advantage could such a move have? Ok, if the club was involved in the later stages of their championship, a night or two, might make a change. But the reality is that the time factor alone would make any benefits largely redundant.
Good / great players are usually born. It's more the quality of coaching (and in a lot of cases the absence of too much coaching) that improve them. Facilities, good and all as they are, wouldn't make the world of difference.
Quote from: Itchy on December 09, 2012, 05:33:10 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 09, 2012, 12:17:14 PM
Cavan were actually the First county in Ireland to have a 3G pitch, but its hardly a Centre of Excellence when most Counties have 4/5 training pitches.
Cavans 3g pitch is no different than what's in ballyhaunis. Its just a pitch and plenty of games have been on the 3g in breffni so its not just a training pitch.
Primarily the 3G at Breffni is a training Pitch, you don't see Cavan playing League or Championhship games on it. Or any club championship games on it
Its mainly used October onwards when club grounds are in a mess and its the best option - being all weather. County Seniors play challenge games on it and a few under age blitz games etc during the summer. But its primarily a training ground for the County teams.
Quote from: mouview on December 11, 2012, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 01:08:14 AM
This has nothing to do with allegiances, though, it's about training and player development. All it being a Connacht GAA facility means is that Connacht counties and clubs will be able to avail of preferential treatment and costs. Alot of clubs have very poor facilities and access to something like this can be a godsend for an ambitious panel or manager.
I imagine a huge amount of clubs and county teams will be using it for special training sessions in the years to come, I can't see that it was intended as a full-time base for anyone. A few extra minutes on the road really matters for very little in those situations, it's not like most clubs will be making four weekly pilgrimages to Bekan. It's akin to those overseas training trips without the insane costs associated.
With respect Syferus, you don't seem to have your finger on the pulse at grassroots level the way Brian Boru has. Many clubs these days have at least feasible or adequate facilities to train on. The greater challenge for the clubs is to get all their players together training on week nights and at weekends. This can be hard enough at the best of times training at home. It would be folly for clubs to go to the expense of hiring a bus, the risk of not been able to get the whole squad together, and the time taken to drive a good hour, if not more, to a training centre that may be many miles from your own base, train for an hour plus, tog in and drive another hour or more home. What possible advantage could such a move have? Ok, if the club was involved in the later stages of their championship, a night or two, might make a change. But the reality is that the time factor alone would make any benefits largely redundant.
Good / great players are usually born. It's more the quality of coaching (and in a lot of cases the absence of too much coaching) that improve them. Facilities, good and all as they are, wouldn't make the world of difference.
Because my opinion begs to differ with his and your's? I live near Ballhaunis and I would never call the facilities in the locality 'adequate', indeed only the larger clubs have much beyond a soft pitch (at the best of times) and an old house/shed posing as a clubhouse. In alot of cases clubs find it hard enough fielding teams, nevermind building decent facilities. And by God we should be aiming for something higher than 'decent' for the most popular sport in the country and the overwhelmingly dominant one in this region.
Are St. Brigids or Salthill going to be rolling up to Bekan very often? No, but I doubt that was ever the intention. It's not just about adult panels, indeed if anything its greatest benefit is to underage panels at club and county level.
I know for a fact my own club plans to use it, and I fully expect every other club in the locality to do likewise once any bluster and indignation inevitably dies down. It makes little sense not to utilise such a well-equipped facility, nevermind one built for the purpose of serving those same clubs and counties. The same people who are complaining now will be doing a whole lot less of it if their own clubs are using it and they see the improvements that are possible when teams do more than take the sellotape and spit approach to building up players. And even great players need to be nurtured, no one is born with the natural ability to know how to train or how to prepare.
Of course coaching is important and the move towards standardising it is a welcome one. But you need a place to teach players properly and most clubs don't cut it in terms of the facilities that they can offer. Being able to access something like this when needed will make those same coaches' jobs a whole lot easier in the long run.
I'll repeat: it probably cost too much, and the money may have been better served funding regional facilities in each county, but what we have now does have plenty of logic behind it and it will be well utilised in the years to come.
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: mouview on December 11, 2012, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 01:08:14 AM
This has nothing to do with allegiances, though, it's about training and player development. All it being a Connacht GAA facility means is that Connacht counties and clubs will be able to avail of preferential treatment and costs. Alot of clubs have very poor facilities and access to something like this can be a godsend for an ambitious panel or manager.
I imagine a huge amount of clubs and county teams will be using it for special training sessions in the years to come, I can't see that it was intended as a full-time base for anyone. A few extra minutes on the road really matters for very little in those situations, it's not like most clubs will be making four weekly pilgrimages to Bekan. It's akin to those overseas training trips without the insane costs associated.
With respect Syferus, you don't seem to have your finger on the pulse at grassroots level the way Brian Boru has. Many clubs these days have at least feasible or adequate facilities to train on. The greater challenge for the clubs is to get all their players together training on week nights and at weekends. This can be hard enough at the best of times training at home. It would be folly for clubs to go to the expense of hiring a bus, the risk of not been able to get the whole squad together, and the time taken to drive a good hour, if not more, to a training centre that may be many miles from your own base, train for an hour plus, tog in and drive another hour or more home. What possible advantage could such a move have? Ok, if the club was involved in the later stages of their championship, a night or two, might make a change. But the reality is that the time factor alone would make any benefits largely redundant.
Good / great players are usually born. It's more the quality of coaching (and in a lot of cases the absence of too much coaching) that improve them. Facilities, good and all as they are, wouldn't make the world of difference.
I know for a fact my own club plans to use it, and I fully expect every other club in the locality to do likewise once any bluster and indignation inevitably dies down. It makes little sense not to utilise such a well-equipped facility, nevermind one built for the purpose of serving those same clubs and counties. The same people who are complaining now will be doing a whole lot less of it if their own clubs are using it and they see the improvements that are possible when teams do more than take the sellotape and spit approach to building up players. And even great players need to be nurtured, no one is born with the natural ability to know how to train or how to prepare.
And therein lies the weakness in the whole venture. It's mostly suitable to clubs in it's locality, not to clubs in remote regions. Therefore the amount of money spent on it is scarcely justified.
Quote from: mouview on December 11, 2012, 08:25:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: mouview on December 11, 2012, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 01:08:14 AM
This has nothing to do with allegiances, though, it's about training and player development. All it being a Connacht GAA facility means is that Connacht counties and clubs will be able to avail of preferential treatment and costs. Alot of clubs have very poor facilities and access to something like this can be a godsend for an ambitious panel or manager.
I imagine a huge amount of clubs and county teams will be using it for special training sessions in the years to come, I can't see that it was intended as a full-time base for anyone. A few extra minutes on the road really matters for very little in those situations, it's not like most clubs will be making four weekly pilgrimages to Bekan. It's akin to those overseas training trips without the insane costs associated.
With respect Syferus, you don't seem to have your finger on the pulse at grassroots level the way Brian Boru has. Many clubs these days have at least feasible or adequate facilities to train on. The greater challenge for the clubs is to get all their players together training on week nights and at weekends. This can be hard enough at the best of times training at home. It would be folly for clubs to go to the expense of hiring a bus, the risk of not been able to get the whole squad together, and the time taken to drive a good hour, if not more, to a training centre that may be many miles from your own base, train for an hour plus, tog in and drive another hour or more home. What possible advantage could such a move have? Ok, if the club was involved in the later stages of their championship, a night or two, might make a change. But the reality is that the time factor alone would make any benefits largely redundant.
Good / great players are usually born. It's more the quality of coaching (and in a lot of cases the absence of too much coaching) that improve them. Facilities, good and all as they are, wouldn't make the world of difference.
I know for a fact my own club plans to use it, and I fully expect every other club in the locality to do likewise once any bluster and indignation inevitably dies down. It makes little sense not to utilise such a well-equipped facility, nevermind one built for the purpose of serving those same clubs and counties. The same people who are complaining now will be doing a whole lot less of it if their own clubs are using it and they see the improvements that are possible when teams do more than take the sellotape and spit approach to building up players. And even great players need to be nurtured, no one is born with the natural ability to know how to train or how to prepare.
And therein lies the weakness in the whole venture. It's mostly suitable to clubs in it's locality, not to clubs in remote regions. Therefore the amount of money spent on it is scarcely justified.
?
The 'locality' covers almost 100 clubs, there is more than enough interest to warrant a centre for the region. Indeed there's very few places in the entire country where gaelic football is as intrinsically tied to daily life as the Mayo/Roscommon/South Sligo area. There's both the numbers and the appetite to make the centre a big success for the area.
The sad reality I'm seeing is that because it's a Connacht GAA building some here are assuming it's a mis-managed attempt to service the whole, or even most, of Connacht. A centre of excellence in a given county still leaves plenty of border clubs in the shade so if anything there should be
more Connacht GAA centres in border regions, not less.
Connacht GAA should be looking at Connacht as a whole, not as five counties. There's far too much insular tribalism that's stunting a proper network of facilities being built "well I don't want us using that place because it's in Mayo'' is something I've heard more than once on this topic. The same people have no answer when asked where else would they place a centre of excellence in the region or what exact size it should be. It's complete and utter guess-work on their part.
It cost too much but its location and intention are very much valid, however you or anyone else wants to wish otherwise.
Understand the reality on the ground before you call something a white elephant - if we want to get into that debate you only need to look at places like McHale Park and Gaelic Park in Limerick, not centres intended to improve the playing of the game in a given area.
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 09:07:14 PM
Quote from: mouview on December 11, 2012, 08:25:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Quote from: mouview on December 11, 2012, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 01:08:14 AM
This has nothing to do with allegiances, though, it's about training and player development. All it being a Connacht GAA facility means is that Connacht counties and clubs will be able to avail of preferential treatment and costs. Alot of clubs have very poor facilities and access to something like this can be a godsend for an ambitious panel or manager.
I imagine a huge amount of clubs and county teams will be using it for special training sessions in the years to come, I can't see that it was intended as a full-time base for anyone. A few extra minutes on the road really matters for very little in those situations, it's not like most clubs will be making four weekly pilgrimages to Bekan. It's akin to those overseas training trips without the insane costs associated.
With respect Syferus, you don't seem to have your finger on the pulse at grassroots level the way Brian Boru has. Many clubs these days have at least feasible or adequate facilities to train on. The greater challenge for the clubs is to get all their players together training on week nights and at weekends. This can be hard enough at the best of times training at home. It would be folly for clubs to go to the expense of hiring a bus, the risk of not been able to get the whole squad together, and the time taken to drive a good hour, if not more, to a training centre that may be many miles from your own base, train for an hour plus, tog in and drive another hour or more home. What possible advantage could such a move have? Ok, if the club was involved in the later stages of their championship, a night or two, might make a change. But the reality is that the time factor alone would make any benefits largely redundant.
Good / great players are usually born. It's more the quality of coaching (and in a lot of cases the absence of too much coaching) that improve them. Facilities, good and all as they are, wouldn't make the world of difference.
I know for a fact my own club plans to use it, and I fully expect every other club in the locality to do likewise once any bluster and indignation inevitably dies down. It makes little sense not to utilise such a well-equipped facility, nevermind one built for the purpose of serving those same clubs and counties. The same people who are complaining now will be doing a whole lot less of it if their own clubs are using it and they see the improvements that are possible when teams do more than take the sellotape and spit approach to building up players. And even great players need to be nurtured, no one is born with the natural ability to know how to train or how to prepare.
And therein lies the weakness in the whole venture. It's mostly suitable to clubs in it's locality, not to clubs in remote regions. Therefore the amount of money spent on it is scarcely justified.
?
The 'locality' covers almost 100 clubs, there is more than enough interest to warrant a centre for the region. Indeed there's very few places in the entire country where gaelic football is as intrinsically tied to daily life as the Mayo/Roscommon/South Sligo area. There's both the numbers and the appetite to make the centre a big success for the area.
Sure Ballyhaunis is even closer to north Galway than it is to south Sligo but I can't see many if any north Galway clubs clubs heading up there to use the facilities. It's just extra hassle to make the journey up and down bad roads (I've made that journey a fair few times) when most clubs have at least passable training facilities at home. And usually get any gym work done in local gyms or hotels or in colleges)
And you're coming at this from the perspective of someone who lives near the damn thing. What about all the football clubs out in Connemara or all the hurling clubs in south Galway. Absolutely shag all use to them. And I'm sure the same could be said about clubs from the extremities of all the counties in Connacht including Mayo itself.
If it was a smaller project and only 1 or 2 million was spent on it I'd say great build it away but nearly 10 million when you see how that money could have been divided up. Not good.
I'm sure local clubs will use it and some underage and college/schools games might be played there but is that worth the vast outlay when there are plenty of clubs who still don't even have a decent set of dressing rooms and showers? I seriously doubt it. My own club is still struggling to get the money together to complete it's dressing rooms so players are not changing in their cars or inside an old container.
My God......
QuoteThe 'locality' covers almost 100 clubs
Sweet Jesus, Do you understand the word locality? Is Castlebar local to Ballyhaunis? Is Gort local to Knock?
The locality covers perhaps 15-20 clubs.
QuoteIndeed there's very few places in the entire country where gaelic football is as intrinsically tied to daily life as the Mayo/Roscommon/South Sligo area.
Errr....WTF?????? West Clare. Leitrim. Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, How about ALL of Kerry, What about Derry... This is a GAA centre supposedly so your leaving out hurling areas lik the glens of Antrim, Kilk....Im gonna end up naming the 32 counties here - The GAA is intrinsically linked to almost every rural area in Ireland
QuoteA centre of excellence in a given county still leaves plenty of border clubs in the shade so if anything there should be more Connacht GAA centres in border regions, not less.
No it doesn't.
The centres of excellence like in LoughGeoge were placed in a central location in order to provide 1. A permanent place for training for county teams so that they did not have to impose on different clubs depending on the weekend.
QuoteUnderstand the reality on the ground before you call something a white elephant
I do.Nobody has questioned or criticised the location of a Connacht "Centre" being where it is. The problem is building such a large scale venture in the first place. ONLY time will tell whether or not it is a white elephant but from the various spiels presented over the last number of years, All county teams should be gaining a benefit out of it on a regular basis. As well as all clubs.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 11, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
1. We can manipulate the statistics to suit any argument.
(A) Leinster have only won one All Ireland in the last 10 years.
(B) Over the last 15 years Connacht have won 2 All Irelands, the same as Leinster .
U21 is an even spread through the provinces. Ulster dominated the Minor grade with the other three provinces winning twice each.
Well, I can certainly agree with you on this.
Mark Twain's quip about lies, damn lies and statistics come to mind. Stats only record facts so they don't lie but they can certainly be manipulated to suit a particular argument on occasion.
As you say,
" Over the last 15 years Connacht have won 2 All Irelands, the same as Leinster."That's undeniably a fact but of what relevance is it to our discussion?
Should that "fact" be taken to mean that the standard of football in Connacht football at present is it least as high as the standard in Leinster?
It could also be said that over the last 30 years Connacht won only two All Irelands, while Leinster won 7.
Does that mean the standard in Leinster is three and a half times higher than it is in Connacht? I don't think so but going by bare statistical analysis alone that case could certainly be made.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 11, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
2. John Tobin - stating facts.
I never said otherwise. The facts he stated were about this place being open to everyone and being a top class facility. He stated that 91 clubs were within a 40 mile radius - Where have I disputed this? The fact is he is not impartial in this.
I don't think I have accused you of misrepresention. That certainly was not my intention. But the fact that he is a paid employee of the Connacht Council doesn't necessarily mean that his word is suspect.
In my original post on the matter (to Syferus) I stated that:
"I think John presented the case for the establishment of the new complex very well indeed."I did not say I fully agreed with hm.
You did write:
"And of course John Tobin is praising it - Connacht GAA are paying his wages...."I accept that he is not an impartial observer but note also that you did not challenge anything he had to say. It's up to observers to draw their own conclusions and nobody, ASAIK, has challenged anything he stated as fact.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 11, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
3. Should each county go it alone?
Of course they should - As I stated you play for you club or your county or both it makes no sense organising on a provincial level.
How exactly will this improve the standard in Connacht?
Will the top U16 players int he province be brought to the centre on a regular basis? If so, when - Presumably these players will also be on their county development panels So your adding an extra representative level at a time when we're doing so much to curb over training.
I guess I will have to respectfully disagree with you here. Nothing is being organised on a county level, never mind a provincial one. Teams, both club and county, are to be given the chance to avail of Bekan's facilities. There is no cross-county interaction of any sort involved. Schools from primary to third level will be free to come along also. Indeed Prenty has said that it is the provision of facilities for the playing of second-level games that has most driven the need for the Centre.
He was also keen to emphasise that the Centre should be viewed as an additional facility for counties, in combination with their own.
"How exactly will this improve the standard in Connacht?"I have no idea but Tobin did state that all counties were fully supportive of the initiative (or something to that effect) so I'm prepared to take their collective word for it.
"Will the top U16 players in the province be brought to the centre on a regular basis?"Surely that is a matter for whoever is in charge of those teams. Nobody is being forced to do anything.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 11, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
Who is "The GAA" ? The GAA financed all of this project. Central Council financed 4 million , Connacht Council finance the rest. This is all GAA money. So the answer your question, instead of earmarking 4 million for this, they give each of the five counties 800 000 . Connacht Council give each county 400 000 .
Sure, the GAA financed the project and consequently has an obligation to see that best use is made of it. If the money was to be divided equally between the five counties involved as you say it would mean each Connacht Council giving each €400,000.
Now in terms of playing numbers, I would rate the counties in descending order as Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Sligo and Leitrim. I don't think giving Galway and Leitrim exactly the same amount of scarce resources would be a fair or equitable move; do you?
If Central Council shelled out €800,000 to each county west of the Shannon, would the rest of the counties in Ireland agree to this without protest? I hardly think so. What would be the justification for so doing?
Again €800,000 to Leitrim would mean far more to that county than a similar amount would to Galway or Mayo- or the other two for that matter.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 11, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
5. Standard of Facility
The biggest benefit is to have a permanent place to train besides looking for club grounds constantly.
1 million would go a hell of a long way . Look at the prices of property - 10 000 per acre is the highest price you ll pay for land. 30 acres therefore is about 300 000. 300 000 will also build a superb gymnasium / meeting rooms / lecture halls.
Car parking & Floodlighting add another 250 000. two pitches at 25 000 each is 50 000.
That leaves 300 000 to install a prunty pitch ... and Im being generous in these amounts - It could be done for far less.
Pitches - budget 100 000 ea
From what Prenty and Tobin have to say, I don't think providing training pitches for inter county teams is high on the agenda. The CC is adopting what you might call a holistic approach and is attempting to provide facilities for the largest number of interested parties.
"1 million would go a hell of a long way . Look at the prices of property - 10 000 per acre is the highest price you ll pay for land. 30 acres therefore is about 300 000. 300 000 will also build a superb gymnasium / meeting rooms / lecture halls."I agree with that if such was the object of the exercise. But it would also mean a vast duplication of resources at a time of economic hardship and it would mean those lecture halls etc. lying idle most of the time.
Besides, some of the resources built in Bekan could not be provided on a per county basis.
I can't see Bekan being any different to Jordanstown, DCU or UL in any respect so I don't really see why there's such a fuss about the Connacht Council trying to providing a common resource site for all of the counties that it represents.
1.
QuoteThat's undeniably a fact but of what relevance is it to our discussion?
Because the original point was that Connacht should make a joint effort to improve the situation. If one were to really examine the relative success of recent times, Tyrone and Kerry are the teams to replicate - not Ulster and Munster. (Has Fermanagh/Down/Antrim OR Clare/Waterfor/Limerick (Tipp look to have but thats based on their structures within the county).
2. Agreed
3. Im aware its open to everybody - but the fact remains that it won't be of benefit to everybody. Take for example Galway and Roscommon and Leitrim teams - they all have a large number of players based in Dublin so its hardly fair to bring those an extra 40 or 50 minute journey - particularly in winter.
QuoteNothing is being organised on a county level,
This is simply not true. Every county in the province (AFAIK) have development squads at U14, U15 & U17 levels. These have been organised at county level -NOT at provincial level.
And I know nobody is being forced to do anything but the fact is, its NOT PRACTICAL for counties Galway, Roscommom or Leitrim to hold training sessions there- essentially doubling the average travelling times compared to a centrally located training centre within the counties.
Quote.....but Tobin did state that all counties were fully supportive of the initiative
The representatives at the time on the CC and the charimen at the time BUT at grassroots level i.e. if it were to go to a full meeting of the relevant county boards, it would not have got the go ahead. And most club players / managers in G/R/L would have a similar opinion to myself.
4.
QuoteNow in terms of playing numbers, I would rate the counties in descending order as Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Sligo and Leitrim. I don't think giving Galway and Leitrim exactly the same amount of scarce resources would be a fair or equitable move; do you?.........
Again €800,000 to Leitrim would mean far more to that county than a similar amount would to Galway or Mayo...
I do think it equitable actually. By that logic, Mayo & Galway should be getting approx 1.8million while the other three counties should get 200 000 and 500 000 approx. .. .If a grant is available for non club facilities - it should be divided evenly.
A similar argument came about in the early 90's when Hyde Park was earmarked for redevelopment as the number one ground in the province enabling it host all provincial finals ala Clones. But at club and county board level there was upheaval and the plug was pulled on that one - Everyone got the same share.
If there were grants available for clubs - of course more mayo and galway clubs than L/R/S club should get grants.
5.
Quote... I don't think providing training pitches for inter county teams is high on the agenda. The CC is adopting what you might call a holistic approach and is attempting to provide facilities for the largest number of interested parties....
Thats just it- its not providing for those its claiming to. Secondary schools???? - Ive no doubt these were high on the agenda , but what about fixtures between Sligo/Leitrim/Roscommon schools or Galway/Roscommon schools?
Quote..... vast duplication of resources at a time of economic hardship and it would mean those lecture halls etc. lying idle most of the time.
How so? vast duplication of pitches? Thats whats needed more than anything else. A place for county teams to call its own. 'a club ground for the county club' . Why would the lecture halls on a per county basis be idle any more than those at bekan?
What has economic hardship got to do with it - we're heading towards €2 per litre of petrol - What is the average distance from a Connacht club to this facility?
QuoteBesides, some of the resources built in Bekan could not be provided on a per county basis.
Such as what exactly?
In fairness to Connacht Council they stuck a pin on a map and found the dead center of Connacht , a backwater called Bacon. Could a student in Dublin get a train there? No. Enough said.
I do think there's a case grants are harder to get for a project involving five smaller facilities in the five counties than a big flagship development because it gives politicians and officials something to crow about to the masses.
Again, I feel the ultimate cost was signifiantly above what it should have been but the indignation in this thread is at odds with the function the facility will have. I've seen GAA clubs and counties spend money on utterly ridiculous things but this isn't one of them, this is something that will actually help improve the sport in quite a wide area. Without fanning the flames too much, there's a little too much bluster in this thread for my liking, there's too much
Anyways, to GalwayBayBoy - I did a quick Google Maps search for some stats and Monasteraden is only 29.9km from Ballyhaunis, and what I was refering to in particular is clubs like Eastern Harps that have been very serious contenders who will be looking at something like Bekan as a way to push on a little bit.
Tuam only 32.1km and indeed Dunmore is only 17.4km from Ballyhaunis and those places alone will give the centre plenty of traffic, particularly in winter months and the lead-up to championship matches. The centre services all five counties to some degree and for any facility to do that is an achievement. Of course for more remote places in relation to the centre it's not very feasible but I don't know many other locations that would have given a wider swathe of coverage. The spot's excellent, the only real question was ever size and cost.
I think it was telling that Galway and Sligo played at Bekan in the FBD League to kick off the 2012 season on January 4th of this year and Sligo returned to use the facilities numerous times afterwards. It's clear even senior inter-county teams see the value in the centre and I put more weight into that than some of the more vocally opposed commentaries here or elsewhere.
Quote from: Syferus on December 12, 2012, 01:51:43 PM
Tuam only 32.1km and indeed Dunmore is only 17.4km from Ballyhaunis and those places alone will give the centre plenty of traffic, particularly in winter months and the lead-up to championship matches.
I would be amazed if these clubs would go up to Mayo to train. Especially as many of their players would probably be living close to Galway city whether it be for work or college so it would make no sense really to go beyond their home clubs to train further north and then drive back down again past their own club again to go back to Galway.
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 09:07:14 PM
Connacht GAA should be looking at Connacht as a whole, not as five counties. There's far too much insular tribalism
There are only FIVE Counties in Connacht .
"Insular tribalism" is what the GAA is all about, what continues to make it tick and is in fact the main reason of its games being the top sports in Ireland.
Lads,just let him have this particular bone ,
and let him f**k off home and play with it,otherwise
this thread will be stuck here forever.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
Because the original point was that Connacht should make a joint effort to improve the situation. If one were to really examine the relative success of recent times, Tyrone and Kerry are the teams to replicate - not Ulster and Munster. (Has Fermanagh/Down/Antrim OR Clare/Waterfor/Limerick (Tipp look to have but thats based on their structures within the county).
I'm lost here. You brought the matter of Connacht/Leinster titles up, not I.
That said, I do agree with what you say above. Kerry and Tyrone are probably the teams to replicate but there are others close behind them and, yes, the original point was that Connacht (ie the 5 counties) should make a joint effort to improve the situation.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
3. Im aware its open to everybody - but the fact remains that it won't be of benefit to everybody. Take for example Galway and Roscommon and Leitrim teams - they all have a large number of players based in Dublin so its hardly fair to bring those an extra 40 or 50 minute journey - particularly in winter.
I will accept that it won't be of equal benefit to everybody. Mayo and Sligo have players in Dublin too and they also face long journeys to and from training in the course of their preparations. But I don't recall anyone connected with the place saying that it would be used by any county or club panel for regular training sessions. In that way, it will be similar to the other centres I have mentioned.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
"Nothing is being organised on a county level,"
This is simply not true. Every county in the province (AFAIK) have development squads at U14, U15 & U17 levels. These have been organised at county level -NOT at provincial level.
O dear, what is "simply not true?"
I would have thought that, given the context, what I said was clear enough. I believe all counties have such development squads but they will not be going to the centre for the purpose of representing their counties unless an intercounty match is to be played there.
While it is a CONNACHT centre, it is open to all units of the GAA to make use of it if they wish and by that I mean that if, say, the Roscommon u14s come along it will be as members of a panel and not as official representatives of their county.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
And I know nobody is being forced to do anything but the fact is, its NOT PRACTICAL for counties Galway, Roscommom or Leitrim to hold training sessions there- essentially doubling the average travelling times compared to a centrally located training centre within the counties.
Hmm... I wonder if any Munster county holds regular training sessions at UL or Ulster teams at Jordanstown. TBH, I don't really know but my guess is that they don't. I know Mayo have sent players to Ul to have specific tests carried out and I think the squad went there from time to time for specific sessions but I know of no team that uses it for a training base.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
".....but Tobin did state that all counties were fully supportive of the initiative."
The representatives at the time on the CC and the charimen at the time BUT at grassroots level i.e. if it were to go to a full meeting of the relevant county boards, it would not have got the go ahead. And most club players / managers in G/R/L would have a similar opinion to myself.
Maybe they should all listen to you (and I'm not being particularly sarcastic btw) but until I see or hear some tangible evidence to the contrary, I'll have to take Tobin at his word.
THe whole caper may indeed be "nothing more than a Prenty vanity project" but you have to say he is one hell of a character if he can swing all the other Council delegates to his side, hoodwink the entire lot of county boards and then cajole Central Council into ponying up over €4 million to feed his greed but may all those I've mentioned say merit in the project from the beginning.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
"Now in terms of playing numbers, I would rate the counties in descending order as Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Sligo and Leitrim. I don't think giving Galway and Leitrim exactly the same amount of scarce resources would be a fair or equitable move; do you?........."
Again €800,000 to Leitrim would mean far more to that county than a similar amount would to Galway or Mayo...
I do think it equitable actually. By that logic, Mayo & Galway should be getting approx 1.8million while the other three counties should get 200 000 and 500 000 approx. .. .If a grant is available for non club facilities - it should be divided evenly.
By that logic, Central Council should pay out around €4 million to Leitrim to let it go develop its own facilities.Like I've already said, other counties in the land might not be too happy at that.
How do you think the CC would justify such a move if this money was paid over?
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
A similar argument came about in the early 90's when Hyde Park was earmarked for redevelopment as the number one ground in the province enabling it host all provincial finals ala Clones. But at club and county board level there was upheaval and the plug was pulled on that one - Everyone got the same share.
If there were grants available for clubs - of course more mayo and galway clubs than L/R/S club should get grants.
Agreed
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
... I don't think providing training pitches for inter county teams is high on the agenda. The CC is adopting what you might call a holistic approach and is attempting to provide facilities for the largest number of interested parties....
Thats just it- its not providing for those its claiming to. Secondary schools? - Ive no doubt these were high on the agenda , but what about fixtures between Sligo/Leitrim/Roscommon schools or Galway/Roscommon schools?
I really can't follow you here. Going by what Tobin said, the CC should be releasing details of its intentions to the media this week and we can all find out what their intentions are.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
..... vast duplication of resources at a time of economic hardship and it would mean those lecture halls etc. lying idle most of the time.
How so? vast duplication of pitches? Thats whats needed more than anything else. A place for county teams to call its own. 'a club ground for the county club' . Why would the lecture halls on a per county basis be idle any more than those at bekan?
What has economic hardship got to do with it - we're heading towards €2 per litre of petrol - What is the average distance from a Connacht club to this facility?
IMHO, economic hardship has everything to do with it.
Let's say you had, say, 2 lecture halls per centre. Now if every county got its own centre, you'd have 10 bleddy lecture halls lying idle for the most part while the two or three at Bekan would get some use if needed.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 12, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
"Besides, some of the resources built in Bekan could not be provided on a per county basis."
Such as what exactly?
How 'bout an indoor, 3g pitch for starters, not to mention a stand for over 900 people?
I'll let Prenty have the final word. (Courtesy of the Mayo News.)
"What it will be is an add-on to what counties have," he said. "Each county needs their own training centre but there are parts of this centre, like the indoor pitch for instance, that make more sense to have in a central provincial location rather than the counties each having them. The counties can use these facilities in addition to their own."
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2012, 02:20:25 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 11, 2012, 09:07:14 PM
Connacht GAA should be looking at Connacht as a whole, not as five counties. There's far too much insular tribalism
There are only FIVE Counties in Connacht .
"Insular tribalism" is what the GAA is all about, what continues to make it tick and is in fact the main reason of its games being the top sports in Ireland.
I meant treating the province as one strategic entity and not as five separate counties when it comes to centres and other initiatives that have cross-border appeal. Did you think I was subjugating Donegal?
It's one thing to have tribalism when Roscommon are playing Mayo in the championship, that's beneficial to atmosphere, but it's another thing when that bleeds over into planning and funding and makes counties mistrust each other 'because they're not us'. It's a small enough island as it is without each county treating itself as a country.
That's why I said
insular tribalism, it's one thing to love your county but another to mistrust the others so much you're not willing to work properly with them on common issues.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 12, 2012, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 12, 2012, 01:51:43 PM
Tuam only 32.1km and indeed Dunmore is only 17.4km from Ballyhaunis and those places alone will give the centre plenty of traffic, particularly in winter months and the lead-up to championship matches.
I would be amazed if these clubs would go up to Mayo to train. Especially as many of their players would probably be living close to Galway city whether it be for work or college so it would make no sense really to go beyond their home clubs to train further north and then drive back down again past their own club again to go back to Galway.
But these types of centres mostly service underage teams, for adult teams it's going to be for day retreats or spot training in the lead up to big games. I think a big part in clubs using it will be that it'll be far more cost efffective to use this centre than any other options because of who owns it, when clubs really start looking at what they can avail of they'll be pleading with non-home based players to 'give it a go'.
Whatever - I still think it would have been far more beneficial if the money spent on this had been divided among the Counties to fund their own centres.
That way each County could do things to suit themselves and not be beholden to Mr Prenty or the Connacht Council blazer bucks.
For instance a million€ would do us just fine for our proposed Oran centre while the Laythrums would have appreciated a similar amount for their Annaduff set up.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2012, 03:44:22 PM
Whatever - I still think it would have been far more beneficial if the money spent on this had been divided among the Counties to fund their own centres.
That way each County could do things to suit themselves and not be beholden to Mr Prenty or the Connacht Council blazer bucks.
For instance a million€ would do us just fine for our proposed Oran centre while the Laythrums would have appreciated a similar amount for their Annaduff set up.
Which I already said may have been a better way to spend the money right now, but both options have valid uses that don't really impinge on each other.
Who knows if we could have got the funding split five ways? Everyone knows the politics that go hand-in-hand with this sort of money and the officials may well have wanted a big show-piece to get the press to fawn over before they'd agree to giving over the money? That's not a Connacht GAA problem, but a societal one.
Quote from: Syferus on December 12, 2012, 03:56:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2012, 03:44:22 PM
Whatever - I still think it would have been far more beneficial if the money spent on this had been divided among the Counties to fund their own centres.
That way each County could do things to suit themselves and not be beholden to Mr Prenty or the Connacht Council blazer bucks.
For instance a million€ would do us just fine for our proposed Oran centre while the Laythrums would have appreciated a similar amount for their Annaduff set up.
Which I already said may have been a better way to spend the money right now, but both options have valid uses that don't really impinge on each other.
Who knows if we could have got the funding split five ways? Everyone knows the politics that go hand-in-hand with this sort of money and the officials may well have wanted a big show-piece to get the press to fawn over before they'd agree to giving over the money? That's not a Connacht GAA problem, but a societal one.
I'd say that if all concerned knew the recession was coming, neither option would have been been acted on but that's history now; The Bekan Basilica is up and running and eagerly (desperately?) awaiting pilgrims.
In the present economic climate it's going to be a struggle to pay the bills and every cent that the centre generates will be needed to keep it open.The same would be the case if the money involved had been split five ways and each county had been made responsible for the upkeep and loan repayments involved. But, given its size and range of facilities, this centre can earn money in ways that a county one could not.
And there had to be loans and not outright grants in this case. I'm still awaiting details but I see no way in which either the Connacht or the Central Council could each have €5m in ready cash to hand over for this initiative- or any other of a similar size.
Like I mentioned before, I couldn't see the Central Council giving each of the Connacht counties €1 million apiece to develop their facilities without a backlash from every other county in the land.
No one on this topic so far has mentioned that the services provided will have to be paid for but it's a no-brainer that the Bekan centre or five separate centres either will have to pay their own way as well as meeting the repayments involved.
Tobin talks of the facilities being used by third level colleges and by primary and secondary schools. He spoke of staging blitz competitions involving twenty or thirty schools at a time and those are not run under the auspices of the county boards.
You can be sure that all of this has been carefully studied and evaluated before he opened his mouth.
Educational tours are also on the agenda and and since every kid in the province is likely to go on at least one such tour a year, this could mean a lot of extra revenue for the centre. The Bekan authorities. will be looking outside the province also for business; he even mentioned the airport and the potential to cater for overseas parties. All in all, I feel the provincial centre was never intended to cater solely for the needs of county and club panels.
My guess is that it will be touted for business conferences and outdoor concerts and every sort of activity that could yield a few bob.
In short, the Connacht Council will be going into the entertainment business in a big way and while they will be hoping that every club in the province will use the centre, they won't be relying on them alone to make the centre pay its way.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 13, 2012, 02:51:48 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 12, 2012, 03:56:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2012, 03:44:22 PM
Whatever - I still think it would have been far more beneficial if the money spent on this had been divided among the Counties to fund their own centres.
That way each County could do things to suit themselves and not be beholden to Mr Prenty or the Connacht Council blazer bucks.
For instance a million€ would do us just fine for our proposed Oran centre while the Laythrums would have appreciated a similar amount for their Annaduff set up.
Which I already said may have been a better way to spend the money right now, but both options have valid uses that don't really impinge on each other.
Who knows if we could have got the funding split five ways? Everyone knows the politics that go hand-in-hand with this sort of money and the officials may well have wanted a big show-piece to get the press to fawn over before they'd agree to giving over the money? That's not a Connacht GAA problem, but a societal one.
You can be sure that all of this has been carefully studied and evaluated before he opened his mouth.
No doubt. We've heard that before alright.
QuoteMy guess is that it will be touted for business conferences and outdoor concerts and every sort of activity that could yield a few bob.
What? In Ballyhaunis?
There's been a few interfirms games played in it over the last while. Every little helps!
Folks, this is a similar concept to Owenbeg in Derry.
The only time club teams get near Owenbeg is if they need training facilities for Ulster Club.
Alot of club teams in Derry now have second pitches and floodlights so the club demand is light.
Owenbeg is used primarily by county teams, development squads, schools and underage blitz competitions.
It will be very intresting reading as to how many club teams use this Connacht facility within the first year
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 13, 2012, 03:27:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 13, 2012, 02:51:48 AM
No doubt. We've heard that before alright.
QuoteMy guess is that it will be touted for business conferences and outdoor concerts and every sort of activity that could yield a few bob.
What? In Ballyhaunis?
First the business folks looking for the conference will arrive in Ballyhaunis and if in Summer will be greeted with the smell of offal from the Halal factory. Then they will have to find Bekan which is a different place entirely. On asking for directions some local scratching their head will say: you must mean Bacon. Head out that way.
If Connacht Council can market this, then fair play.
LarnaParka - Are you for real?
Your saying this place needs concerts and conferences to pay its way??? Jesus wept.
What kind of conference exactly? Most major conferences take place in a hotel as they can provide accommodation also. Where are people going to stay if theres one at Bekan? or does John Prenty have a B&B?
And Central Council DO have 5million in cash and plenty more - thanks to excellent money management within the overall GAA family (Of course the Sun isn't going to do an exclusive on that!!!).
Educational Tours??? If you think schools are going to go for a jaunt to see Bekan on a day out - you're in cloud cukoo land.
Its in the middle of nowhere...are ye mad or what?
Quote from: southsidejohnny on December 13, 2012, 01:24:04 PM
Its in the middle of nowhere...are ye mad or what?
It has something in common with the Centre in Monaghan then, its in back of beyond.Cloghan- Monaghan,
Then again most places in Monaghan seem that way...
The Monaghan centre is on the main Derry / Dublin Rd Rodney, a fairly logical location i would imagine
Quote from: North Man on December 13, 2012, 02:10:03 PM
The Monaghan centre is on the main Derry / Dublin Rd Rodney, a fairly logical location i would imagine
Fair enough, Just googled it and its off the motor way yeah. Heard lots complaining about where it is situated for some reason.
I'm always intrigued when I hear a place described as "remote". It's surely the epitome of a relative concept. Dubliners, of course, divide the country into two - "here" and "dowan da coontry" and everything that's not "here" is, by definition, remote. And it is, to them, fair enough. The strange thing is the the rest of the country seems to acquiesce in this geographical imperialism and some people consider the place where they live themselves as remote, as if they must live their lives by reference to the perceptions of people who live somewhere else.
That's with the exception of Kerry people, as evidenced by the observation of the Kerryman to his companion as he looked into the back gardens of houses while his train rolled through the suburbs of Dublin on his first All-Ireland excursion - "don't some people live very far away".
Quote from: Hardy on December 13, 2012, 03:23:11 PM
I'm always intrigued when I hear a place described as "remote". It's surely the epitome of a relative concept. Dubliners, of course, divide the country into two - "here" and "dowan da coontry" and everything that's not "here" is, by definition, remote. And it is, to them, fair enough. The strange thing is the the rest of the country seems to acquiesce in this geographical imperialism and some people consider the place where they live themselves as remote, as if they must live their lives by reference to the perceptions of people who live somewhere else.
That's with the exception of Kerry people, as evidenced by the observation of the Kerryman to his companion as he looked into the back gardens of houses while his train rolled through the suburbs of Dublin on his first All-Ireland excursion - "don't some people live very far away".
Burst 'em Hardy!
Right on.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 13, 2012, 01:01:29 PM
LarnaParka - Are you for real?
Sure am, bro. I sure am.
Ah feckit it anyway, I'm told I have an awful masochistic streak in me so here goes one last time.....
QuoteYour saying this place needs concerts and conferences to pay its way??? Jesus wept.
Actually, I'm not saying anything of the sort..
What I said was:
"My guess is that it will be touted for business conferences and outdoor concerts and every sort of activity that could yield a few bob."
Why do I think that way?
Because I listened carefully to what John Tobin had to say on the subject, that's why.
Around the 3.50 mark in that interview he mentioned that the centre had a lecture theatre and breakout rooms.
What are breakout rooms and what are they used for?
I'm strongly tempted to tell you to go ask my posterior but I'll refrain and suggest you should ask Mr Google instead.
Why would the centre have breakout rooms if they didn't plan to make use of them? Go figure.
Tobin also said the place had dining facilities for 250-300 people.
Frankly, I can't see the centre paying it way, in the early years at least and, equally frankly, I don't give a damn.
I'm totally against the trend in the GAA to drive players beyond the limits of human endurance while neglecting the very real issues of player burnout and general welfare.
However, I accept that Connacht has to go with the tide or else miss the proverbial boat.
Quote
What kind of conference exactly? Most major conferences take place in a hotel as they can provide accommodation also. Where are people going to stay if theres one at Bekan? or does John Prenty have a B&B?
I never mentioned "major" anything.
If, say, INTO members of any of the western districts wanted to hold a meeting, the centre could comfortably accommodate them. Same goes for the ASTI and the TUI. In such cases, the question of overnight stays would not arise.
You could throw (GAA) county convention and other trade union meetings as well and, really, the list is quite long.
For those attending who may wish to overnight, there are five hotels in the Knock area alone.There are lots of others in the surrounding towns; Claremorris, Kiltimagh, Ballyhaunis, Charlestown etc. etc.
Does Prenty have a B&B/ I couldn't give a damn if he had an assload of them!
QuoteEducational Tours??? If you think schools are going to go for a jaunt to see Bekan on a day out - you're in cloud cukoo land.
Tobin referred to was the fact that the centre was geared particularly for primary schools and said they were already catering for fun days. He spoke of blitzes where up to 20 to 30 schools would be accommodated.
Twenty to thirty schools would mean at least an equal number of tour buses filled with school kids, grannies, mammies and maybe family pets as well. The fun would go on for hours. Do you have an idea of the amount of burgers and chips and ice creams and the likes that would be sold at the centre?
I happen to have a lot of experience of òrgnising such outings as I was a member of Cummann na mBunscol for decades and, in this instance anyway, I know what I'm talking about.
Can the same be said for you?
Educational tours?
Again, it was Tobin who introduced the subject not I and, once again, I've had me bellyful of them.
Since you asked, I don't think schools will go for a jaunt to Bekan.
But they certainly could include it in the itinerary as one of a number of places to visit.
It's standard practice to visit 4 or 5 places on such tours and the kids are going to have to eat somewhere.
A meal and a tour of the place with a chance to mess about with some of the equipment and a kickabout on the indoor pitch would prove an irresistible attraction for every kid in the province and beyond. Think of all the schools from Primary to Junior Cert level who organise whole school or even class tours al least once a year throughout the province and neighbouring counties.
At a conservative estimate, I'd say a meal at the centre and a gallop around the facilities would bring in at least a tenner a head from those who would stop there.
Is it any wonder that Tobin and his colleagues place such emphasis on attracting schoolkids to the place?
Finally, I don't think I'm in cuckoo land.
Sure, if I was, I'd have met you a long time ago! ;D
I'd question whether you have any experience as your figures are plucked from the cloud.
Blitzes do not attract the numbers of parents you suggest. As regards your question p yes actually I do know what I m talking about.
It IS NOT standard practice for school to visit 4-5 places on tours . You evidently have no clue as to the reality of the situation in primary & secondary schools.
Quote from: brianboru00 on December 14, 2012, 02:57:46 AM
I'd question whether you have any experience as your figures are plucked from the cloud.
Blitzes do not attract the numbers of parents you suggest. As regards your question p yes actually I do know what I m talking about.
It IS NOT standard practice for school to visit 4-5 places on tours . You evidently have no clue as to the reality of the situation in primary & secondary schools.
Look, I've enjoyed the craic but this has gone on long enough.
I can sniff out a troll the length of a prunty pitch away and I've really better things to do. (Not a lot better admittedly but still a damn sight more beneficial to humanity at large that trying to have a discussion with you.)
I don't use sarcasm as a vehicle for expressing my opinions and if I were to do so, I'd try and get my facts right first.
If you want a flame war, consider yourself the winner by a knockout. I won't get involved because you'd wipe the floor with me. Your greater experience wold see to that.
QuoteLook, I've enjoyed the craic but this has gone on long enough.
Amen to that
Connacht Gaa Centre coming to use for a Ros player http://t.co/ndNRV0Gq0e
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 14, 2013, 11:15:08 AM
Connacht Gaa Centre coming to use for a Ros player http://t.co/ndNRV0Gq0e
Cregger is going to do a whole lot of good work for the province and it's great to see Connacht GAA recognising what it has within its fold before they fly the coop to another sport. For him personally it's a great spot given he's only from up the road, like he said in the article he'd assumed he'd have to move far away from home to find a job in his field.
A number our county lads have studied/are studying sports science as well as players from other local counties, hopefully more can find roles that benefit themselves and the sport they love because there's alot of work that can still be done in teaching players at all levels best practices when it comes to training and recovering from injury (or preventing it altogether).
I paid my first proper visit to the Bekan factory on Friday and even though it is in the main a wonderful development one thing is doing my head in - at least two of the pitches aren't level!
One pitch - the one directly facing the left hand side of the building itself as you enter, the one with full, heavy duty flood lights, is quite literally playing up a hill for the team facing the centre, such is the slope. We played Galway CW there in the Ted Web and Galway raced into a 0-06 to 0-00 lead in the first half playing downhill (it was 7-2 at half-time) and we proceeded to destroy them in the second half, winning the match 1-09 to 0-09. The pitch we played Mayo EW on afterwards was much more gently sloped but it was still noticeably uneven.
The result of the first game wasn't all to do with the hill by any means but it's incredible that Prenty and company spent €10m on a facility and didn't bother to make sure the pitches were level. A simple €2 level would have highlighted the problem if their eyesight was failing them.
For a state-of-the-art facility to suffer from such an amateurish error is galling.