We now have a GAA President who is prepared to think big when it comes to international growth in Gaelic games. He has said what I've been saying for years, that there's potential for the GAA in America to grow bigger than the GAA in Ireland.
I think it's a breath of fresh air hearing a GAA president talking like this. For years we had officials coming out from Ireland patting us on the heads saying what a great job we were doing of keeping our Irish communities together and our Irish heritage alive and maintaining connections with Ireland. I always bristled when I heard speeches like that. Maybe it looks different from the West coast, but the days are long gone when I think of Ireland as "home". I'm not an "exile", I never committed a crime and got banished. I live in California because I chose to come here and I enjoy living here.
The population of the typical American metropolitan area where there's a GAA presence is bigger than the population of Ireland. If even a tenth of them got involved in the GAA you'd be looking at huge numbers of people playing.
The American sports industry is enormous, worth about a third of Ireland's entire GDP. Americans love their sport and they love Gaelic games when they see them for the first time, especially hurling. Hurling appeals to people who aren't even seasoned sports fans. If every American got a chance to see a game on TV and presented in a way that they could understand, hurling would soon be as big here as lacrosse. You'd be able to go into any sport supply store and buy hurleys, none of this "there's a lad coming over from Ireland next week, he can bring a dozen with him in his luggage" nonsense.
Liam O'Neill has proposed having more high-profile games hosted in the states for promotional purposes. Proper order. The All-Stars are nice to have, but the game they play doesn't showcase the full intensity of the game because there's nothing at stake. A national league final or a railway cup final would be more intensely contested and would showcase the game properly.
I think hurling is the tougher sell overall, it's difficult enough for me to keep up with what's happening at a hurling match, let alone someone who doesn't have a clue what's happening. It's a great novelty for people I'm sure but football is the proposition with the most legs.
Football should be the focus because so much of the basic skills are already covered in more established sports, not just in America but the world over.
My experience is completely different, Syferus. When I show USAians both games for the first time in a "take the Pepsi challenge" kind of way, hurling always comes out on top. That's why it's mainly hurling that's taking off in the US colleges, football's hardly getting a look in.
And outside the colleges, the biggest growth by far in the clubs is in hurling at the all-American entry level Junior C grade which is now the biggest competition at the North American finals. In fact hurling has now overtaken football at the North Americans in terms of numbers of games played over the weekend, and it's all down to these all-American clubs taking to the game in droves.
On my youtube channel, almost every day I get comments from people who are blown away by what they see in the hurling informational movie, but in the equivalent football video I actually had to disable comments because it was getting so many negative comments.
I find football is far harder to promote than hurling.
Quote from: Syferus on November 30, 2012, 03:02:26 AM
... it's difficult enough for me to keep up with what's happening at a hurling match ...
Are you serious?
All anecdotal, but my cousin brought some American friends to a hurling/football double-header in Croke Park and it was the football that caught their attention. A Kerry friend of mine once dismissed International Rules as 'bland' and this spirit was clearly with the Americans, they loved the non-stop nature of football. Hurling was too impenetrable to be truly enjoyable to them.
Quote from: deiseach on November 30, 2012, 12:09:44 PM
All anecdotal, but my cousin brought some American friends to a hurling/football double-header in Croke Park and it was the football that caught their attention. A Kerry friend of mine once dismissed International Rules as 'bland' and this spirit was clearly with the Americans, they loved the non-stop nature of football. Hurling was too impenetrable to be truly enjoyable to them.
Wasn't a donegal match.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 30, 2012, 04:54:03 AM
On my youtube channel, almost every day I get comments from people who are blown away by what they see in the hurling informational movie, but in the equivalent football video I actually had to disable comments because it was getting so many negative comments.I find football is far harder to promote than hurling.
Can you please inform Liam O'Neill, Pádraig O Dufaigh, the 32 County Chairman( well 31 omit KK ;D ) and the 31 County Senior managers?
Just proves what what a lot of us know for ages - what an awful poor spectacle most football games have become.
Incessant solo running, over carrying, silly over indulgence in ridiculous hand passing accompanied by pullin/draggin/gropin/ and inconsistent refereeing.
While the top teams in the closing stages of the Championship can give us good spectacles of games the other 99.99999% are getting worse to watch by the day.
I'd disagree with your negativity towards modern football Rossfan, I think you are being very harsh, sure wasn't the 2010 season regarded as one of the best ever? There were plenty of poor hurling matches last year too.
On the wider issue, it's about time this was flagged at the highest level but it's not just America. I'm the underage development officer in my club and I can assure you if the GAA properly funded the development of football in any British city that it would be massive within 10 years. We have only one kid with an Irish parent in our club and I'd expect us to have nearly 100 registered players by next year which would be around two and half years after we started.
I hate it when I'm asked how many of the kids are Irish by people enquiring about the club, why wouldn't other nationalities enjoy GAA? Remember too that the quality of IC games has nothing to do with international development, the kids enjoy football because it's a great game to play. All they need is the chance to play it.
Quote from: Zulu on November 30, 2012, 09:48:56 PM
I'd disagree with your negativity towards modern football Rossfan, I think you are being very harsh, sure wasn't the 2010 season regarded as one of the best ever? There were plenty of poor hurling matches last year too.
On the wider issue, it's about time this was flagged at the highest level but it's not just America. I'm the underage development officer in my club and I can assure you if the GAA properly funded the development of football in any British city that it would be massive within 10 years. We have only one kid with an Irish parent in our club and I'd expect us to have nearly 100 registered players by next year which would be around two and half years after we started.
I hate it when I'm asked how many of the kids are Irish by people enquiring about the club, why wouldn't other nationalities enjoy GAA? Remember too that the quality of IC games has nothing to do with international development, the kids enjoy football because it's a great game to play. All they need is the chance to play it.
+1
I think the game still have plenty going for it, its mixture of physicality and capacity for both long range attacks and intricate build-ups. Those later two are things hurling has always had serious trouble with, even the best hurling matches usually devolve into constant 'smart' long balls on top of full-forwards and goals or long range points, there's a whole third of the pitch that rarely even sees the ball.
I think most of the concerns about football today can be addressed by cracking down on cynical fouling, we need to weight the sport towards attacking play rather than defensive play. Once you do that the game is near perfect.
There's a lot to be said for a game of football when played properly. From a stateside point of view I can report that basketball players take to Gaelic football like a duck to water. Their ball control is in a completely different league. They bring in all sorts of ducking and weaving, bouncing between the legs, sharp turns and all sorts of great spectator-friendly play into the game. Even their handpassing is clean, crisp and nice to watch. It's like a uniquely American style of Gaelic football is taking shape.
FYI, the video I was getting complaints about was this one: Gaelic football - the original beautiful game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEAbWrdB9XU). Most of the complaints were from idiots complaining that they hear that tune on a lot of youtube movies (so stop spending your entire life on youtube then), but there was still a lot of negativity about the nature of the game itself.
Here's the hurling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmzivRetelE) one which is much better received.
I'm with Zulu on this. I love seeing the look on people's faces when they see a good hurler and just assume they're Irish, only to discover it's an American player with no Irish ancestry. I think the days are gone when people thought you had to be Irish to play the game. More people are waking up to the potential for the games when you get beyond the Irish community and get out there into the bigger world.
You forgot to mention putting 14 men behind the ball and making 10 1 yard hand passes and going nowhere. The two items we will see most of next year which will eventually kill our games and strangle all those other skills year your video showed.
I've been coaching kids in England for years and believe me they know nothing about the negativity that may or may not exist at the highest level of Gaelic football. What I do know that most kids take to the game with ease, thoroughly enjoy it and given the correct environment would love to play on a more regular basis. Unfortunately those structures don't exist and a game every few months won't cut it for kids and they lose interest. That's the main problem - not that county teams may decide to play 14 men behind the ball and play 1 yard hand passes!! By the way, I fully agree with Zulu, it annoys the shit out of me when people ask how many of the kids are from Irish origin - why does that matter? But seemingly it does to most Irish who come over!
At a guess I suppose its to do with a concern that kids with a non Irish background mightn't stick at the likes of hurling especially due the technical requirement and practice required coupled with the slaps he might get when he/she's still learning. An Irish parent with a knowledge of the game might stick it out better. Let's also not forget that its mote than just a good participation sport to GAA folk, so again more likely to stay involved
It might be more than a game for the parents and certainly parental support is important for longevity but kids enjoy a sport or they don't. If they enjoy it, and many love football, they'll be as likely to stay with it as any other sport. The problem is, as Benny says, there's no real competition structures so when you start an underage team your also looking at creating competitions for them. This why the GAA international development 'plans' are a nonsense, they'll give you a few bob to coach in schools but it's not enough to make a difference and it's spread across the whole of Britain. There is no reason you couldn't have 50 or 60 clubs in any major British city if you developed the games as a sport rather than promoting it as a way for Irish immigrants to express their culture.
Quote from: Itchy on December 01, 2012, 09:37:45 AM
You forgot to mention putting 14 men behind the ball and making 10 1 yard hand passes and going nowhere. The two items we will see most of next year which will eventually kill our games and strangle all those other skills year your video showed.
Zulu and oul pal Syferus conveniently ignore this abomination.
It's one thing a highly prepared team like Donegal defending in numbers and then counter attacking at speed and having two excellent forwards like Murphy and McF but when you see every slow lumbering Junior and Intemediate club team doing the 14 men behind the ball/ 1 yard handpassing sh1te at snails pace ..... it's just not a spectator friendly sport any more. Only for the tribal loyalty thing nobody will go to watch that.
Restrict the handpass , no kicking frees/line balls backwards, enforce the 4 step rule and then we might start getting back to something resembling Gaelic
FOOTball
You're entitled to your opinion Rossfan but I'd disagree with you. Colm O'Neill's goal, Micheal Murphy's goal and Bernard Brogan's chance all came from brilliant long passes. There were plenty of great points from distance, Finlay and Sheehan come to mind readily but it's become fashionable to focus on the more negative aspects. There was some tremendous fielding too so I don't subscribe to your view at all.
Anyway this thread isn't about the merits of top level football and as already said, it's entirely irrelevant to international promotion.
Finally.
And I said it a million times before, get it on TV so people can actually watch it in the UK, USA or Australia.
The reason NFL is growing so fast in Ireland and over in the UK is because its on TV and it's very accessible through the internet.
Having GAA on some back of catalogue channel like Premiersports is like keeping it in the cupboard.
Get it on TV get the highlights free to be viewed straight away and none of this Island of Ireland crap.
Quote from: thejuice on December 01, 2012, 01:52:25 PM
Finally.
And I said it a million times before, get it on TV so people can actually watch it in the UK, USA or Australia.
The reason NFL is growing so fast in Ireland and over in the UK is because its on TV and it's very accessible through the internet.
Having GAA on some back of catalogue channel like Premiersports is like keeping it in the cupboard.
Get it on TV get the highlights free to be viewed straight away and none of this Island of Ireland crap.
spot on. totally agree
It's certainly part of it alright but it's getting it into schools and setting up underage clubs that will make the most difference. You wouldn't believe some of the reality devoid suggestions Croke Park come up with. TV will help develop a fan base and increase the profile but as it is at home only development with the kids will result in more players and clubs.
I don't know, they have had GAA in some schools in England for a good while now and I often meet people with no affiliation to Ireland who played it in school. There doesn't seem to be much uptake outside of the Irish community. Now maybe its because at adult level it is a bit of a pub orientated shambles that they lose interest quickly.
I think increased exposure to it through TV and other media is far more beneficial as it offers something aspirational and might actually make more sense than any coaching.
The Irish American football league have 7 new teams applying to join the league for next year. This is a league that less than a decade ago had only 5 teams and was near folding. But thanks to television, video games and the internet the ranks have been swelling year on year. Nothing to do with schools.
Perhaps but I wouldn't say they are being set up by lads with NFL ambitions but by lads who enjoy gridiron and (maybe) aren't much good at the main sports.
The reason lads don't keep it up in Britain is multi factored but a lack of proper competitions is a big one. I'm not saying our club are reinventing the wheel but we are doing pretty well so far and if the GAA were funding 10 others to do the same we could have 10 underage clubs within the 2 years in the city. With that you'd have the potential for a sustainable league within the city.
TV might get a few people interested but I wouldn't regard it as a success if a collection of non Irish twentysomethings got together to form a team. They wouldn't be up to much and yo compete they'd have to play against Irish teams which would soon test their commitment. Target certain cities and get enough teams up and running and you'd have some chance for sustainability.
All that cynical diving and play-acting and silly penalty shootouts at the World Cup. Soccer will never become a globalized sport as long as .... oh
Quote from: thejuice on December 01, 2012, 04:20:19 PM
I don't know, they have had GAA in some schools in England for a good while now and I often meet people with no affiliation to Ireland who played it in school. There doesn't seem to be much uptake outside of the Irish community. Now maybe its because at adult level it is a bit of a pub orientated shambles that they lose interest quickly.
I think increased exposure to it through TV and other media is far more beneficial as it offers something aspirational and might actually make more sense than any coaching.
The Irish American football league have 7 new teams applying to join the league for next year. This is a league that less than a decade ago had only 5 teams and was near folding. But thanks to television, video games and the internet the ranks have been swelling year on year. Nothing to do with schools.
TV exposure, proper marketing, underage competition, underage structures, adult competition, a steady progression in standard up through the grades so people can work their way up from entry level, they're
all part of the mix. They should
all be in place. It's not an either/or question.