Is it any wonder Unionists try to avoid All-Ireland sporting bodies given the treatment of Joanna Mills, half a second faster than her rival, who's dad just happens to be the team doctor! it's amazing in the year that Nationalists in the North have finally begun to get a semblance of equality from our Unionist brethern, and not too long after "Ireland" embraces Liz ans Phil like long lost cousins we see an outbreak of anti nordie feeling from the South...and from those who think Daley Thompson's remarks were racist too...Pot, kettle, black (no pun intended).
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
Is it any wonder Unionists try to avoid All-Ireland sporting bodies given the treatment of Joanna Mills, half a second faster than her rival, who's dad just happens to be the team doctor! it's amazing in the year that Nationalists in the North have finally begun to get a semblance of equality from our Unionist brethern, and not too long after "Ireland" embraces Liz ans Phil like long lost cousins we see an outbreak of anti nordie feeling from the South...and from those who think Daley Thompson's remarks were racist too...Pot, kettle, black (no pun intended).
That's the only possible explanation is it? Sectarianism!? Clown.
Quote from: Tubberman on July 24, 2012, 09:36:17 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
Is it any wonder Unionists try to avoid All-Ireland sporting bodies given the treatment of Joanna Mills, half a second faster than her rival, who's dad just happens to be the team doctor! it's amazing in the year that Nationalists in the North have finally begun to get a semblance of equality from our Unionist brethren, and not too long after "Ireland" embraces Liz ans Phil like long lost cousins we see an outbreak of anti nordie feeling from the South...and from those who think Daley Thompson's remarks were racist too...Pot, kettle, black (no pun intended).
That's the only possible explanation is it? Sectarianism!? Clown.
No not sectarianism but more nepotism and favouritism, and I obviously touch a nerve as you have resorted to abuse...how would explain a slower runner being selected, along with her sister to boot.
Whilst some of my original post was meant to be provocative, two things have emerged that do athletics no favours. Firstly the perception in Unionist quarters (and the suspicion in nationalist ones) is that the selection was based on where the two were from, north vs south. Secondly the whole saga has portrayed Athletics Ireland in a very bad light. Even if it was only the case of Daddy's girls being on the plane it is still a mess.
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 10:01:59 AM
Whilst some of my original post was meant to be provocative, two things have emerged that do athletics no favours. Firstly the perception in Unionist quarters (and the suspicion in nationalist ones) is that the selection was based on where the two were from, north vs south. Secondly the whole saga has portrayed Athletics Ireland in a very bad light. Even if it was only the case of Daddy's girls being on the plane it is still a mess.
Frankly there's absolutely no evidence that this is an issue. There are plenty of Northern athletes who have represented Ireland in the past and there'll be plenty more in the future. Off the top of my head the two triathlon participants are both from the north as are two of the boxers at least one the cyclists etc. I would agree that the whole selection process has been a shambles but as TYP pointed out GB left out the world ranked no 1 in some form of taekwando. Cuddihy was originally selected and Mills appealed that decision and now Cuddihy has had her appeal upheld. FWIW, Mills should be there as she's clearly the better athlete and better looking, but this the the Olympics...
Seriously? Who gives a flying fcuk...
And there is already a thread on the Olympics here could it not have gone in there?
Why do some posters have to start a new thread for every thought that comes into their heads.
Quote from: Gazzler on July 24, 2012, 10:45:23 AM
Seriously? Who gives a flying fcuk...
And there is already a thread on the Olympics here could it not have gone in there?
Why do some posters have to start a new thread for every thought that comes into their heads.
For the same reason some w**ker would post on a thread in which he has no interest! :D
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
Is it any wonder Unionists try to avoid All-Ireland sporting bodies given the treatment of Joanna Mills, half a second faster than her rival, who's dad just happens to be the team doctor! it's amazing in the year that Nationalists in the North have finally begun to get a semblance of equality from our Unionist brethern, and not too long after "Ireland" embraces Liz ans Phil like long lost cousins we see an outbreak of anti nordie feeling from the South...and from those who think Daley Thompson's remarks were racist too...Pot, kettle, black (no pun intended).
This is a very confused and confusing post. On one hand, you're suggesting it's nepotism, yet you also appear to be implying it's sectarian. Which is it? Because each one is a totally different argument.
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 10:01:59 AM
Whilst some of my original post was meant to be provocative, two things have emerged that do athletics no favours. Firstly the perception in Unionist quarters (and the suspicion in nationalist ones) is that the selection was based on where the two were from, north vs south. Secondly the whole saga has portrayed Athletics Ireland in a very bad light. Even if it was only the case of Daddy's girls being on the plane it is still a mess.
Frankly there's absolutely no evidence that this is an issue.
I'm not convinced that Mills was overlooked solely because she is from NI. But I wouldn't be surprised if the selectors thought they would get away more easily with overlooking her because she is from NI. And if so, then the distinction won't be of any consolation to the girl herself.
Further, since the girl is very young, she might have decided just to keep her head down and wait her turn etc. but the fact that she (her Coach, actually) raised her case so publicly means he must be risking her standing with Irish Athletics administrators for the future. This suggests to me a very heightened sense of injustice on the part of Coach and Athlete.
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMThere are plenty of Northern athletes who have represented Ireland in the past and there'll be plenty more in the future.
Yes, because their record merited their selection and their performances were hoped to benefit Ireland etc.
Or to put it another way, can you ever see any circumstances when someone might be prompted to point out that "There are plenty of
Southern athletes who have represented Ireland in the past and there'll be plenty more in the future."
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMOff the top of my head the two triathlon participants are both from the north as are two of the boxers at least one the cyclists etc.
So?
Or should we infer from that that their inclusion somehow "cancels out" her non-inclusion? ::)
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMI would agree that the whole selection process has been a shambles
The word "shambles" denotes incompetence, such as the selectors not appreciating her ability/availability/fitness etc.
What is being alleged here is more of a
scandal i.e. the selectors knew all about her and her credentials for inclusion, but still consciously overlooked her for reasons of nepotism etc
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AM... but as TYP pointed out GB left out the world ranked no 1 in some form of taekwando.
So if another country demonstrates favouritism when selecting their team, that makes it OK for Ireland to do so, then?
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMCuddihy was originally selected and Mills appealed that decision and now Cuddihy has had her appeal upheld.
And it seems that Mills (her Coach) may now appeal to the Court of Arbitration in Sport, the highest body, despite the Games only being 3 days away.
If nothing else, this must all be seriously unsettling for the rest of the relay team, who (presumably) have nothing to answer for in this whole hoo-haa.
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMFWIW, Mills should be there as she's clearly the better athlete and better looking, but this the the Olympics...
Eh?
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2012, 02:05:20 PM
Quote from: Gazzler on July 24, 2012, 10:45:23 AM
Why do some posters have to start a new thread for every thought that comes into their heads.
Just be thankful that there are some posters who have a thought in their heads.
Olly?
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
Is it any wonder Unionists try to avoid All-Ireland sporting bodies given the treatment of Joanna Mills, half a second faster than her rival, who's dad just happens to be the team doctor! it's amazing in the year that Nationalists in the North have finally begun to get a semblance of equality from our Unionist brethern, and not too long after "Ireland" embraces Liz ans Phil like long lost cousins we see an outbreak of anti nordie feeling from the South...and from those who think Daley Thompson's remarks were racist too...Pot, kettle, black (no pun intended).
Munster Bastards >:(
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 24, 2012, 01:43:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
Is it any wonder Unionists try to avoid All-Ireland sporting bodies given the treatment of Joanna Mills, half a second faster than her rival, who's dad just happens to be the team doctor! it's amazing in the year that Nationalists in the North have finally begun to get a semblance of equality from our Unionist brethren, and not too long after "Ireland" embraces Liz ans Phil like long lost cousins we see an outbreak of anti nordie feeling from the South...and from those who think Daley Thompson's remarks were racist too...Pot, kettle, black (no pun intended).
This is a very confused and confusing post. On one hand, you're suggesting it's nepotism, yet you also appear to be implying it's sectarian. Which is it? Because each one is a totally different argument.
No I don't think its sectarian, but it has been reported in NI as being a mix of North vs South and nepotism. I don't think myself that that is necessarily the case but I do believe on results she should have been included. The point I'm making is that it feeds the notion that Northerners don't get a fair shake.
Excuse my ignorance on this, but is it not solely based on seasons best times or are there other forces at work?
To the best of my knowledge, Joanna Mills has the better times and it does appear a strange selection. Doubt if is based on North v. South, but nepotism does appear to be a factor in the matter. Pity, because selection should be on merit. >:( >:(
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 02:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 24, 2012, 01:43:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
Is it any wonder Unionists try to avoid All-Ireland sporting bodies given the treatment of Joanna Mills, half a second faster than her rival, who's dad just happens to be the team doctor! it's amazing in the year that Nationalists in the North have finally begun to get a semblance of equality from our Unionist brethren, and not too long after "Ireland" embraces Liz ans Phil like long lost cousins we see an outbreak of anti nordie feeling from the South...and from those who think Daley Thompson's remarks were racist too...Pot, kettle, black (no pun intended).
This is a very confused and confusing post. On one hand, you're suggesting it's nepotism, yet you also appear to be implying it's sectarian. Which is it? Because each one is a totally different argument.
No I don't think its sectarian, but it has been reported in NI as being a mix of North vs South and nepotism. I don't think myself that that is necessarily the case but I do believe on results she should have been included. The point I'm making is that it feeds the notion that Northerners don't get a fair shake.
Where has it been reported as north vs south?
Radio Ulster
I believe the selection committee cited administrative reasons. It certainly cannot be performance based as Mills has ran faster than Cuddihys PB 7 times in the past 13 months (this info comes from a friend in athletics, I know sweet FA about it myself.)
Quote from: johnneycool on July 24, 2012, 03:13:59 PM
Excuse my ignorance on this, but is it not solely based on seasons best times or are there other forces at work?
Joanna Mills misses out on Olympics after Cuddihy appeal upheldJoanna Mills is to miss out on a place at London 2012 after Catriona Cuddihy successfully appealed to the Olympic Council of Ireland against her de-selection from the 4x400m relay team. Cuddihy had originally been named in the six-women squad but an appeal by Mills was upheld by Athletics Ireland.
The tribunal found that the initial selection of Cuddihy had been correct based on the full range of criteria.
Mills may decide to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
That body is sitting in London at present ahead of the Olympic Games, instead of their usual base in Lausanne, Switzerland.
Mills is currently consulting with her legal team before making a decision on whether to continue the appeals process.
It is understood that a legal technicality may have played a part in the final decision too as Athletics Ireland may have overstepped its remit in reinstating the Northern Ireland runner to the line-up.
Kilkenny City Harrier Cuddihy took her appeal to the OCI last Thursday night and the hearing, at which both of the athletes and Athletics Ireland were represented by separate legal advisors, took almost five hours.
Cuddihy was named in the original selection on 2 July even though her personal best of 54.59 was .18secs slower than Mills' seasonal best at that stage.
Since then, Mills, 19, has gone on to run times of 54.17 and 54.52 at the World Junior Championships in Barcelona where she reached the semi-finals.
"I'm really disappointed with how the whole thing has been handled, especially by Athletics Ireland, and I hope they learn from it," Mills told the BBC.
"It should just be about times and who is running faster, but other factors are coming in to play," she added. A statement released by Athletics Ireland on Tuesday morning said they accepted the OCI's decision, but lessons would be learned from the entire process.
"The experience has been a significant learning one for the Association," admitted Athletics Ireland in their statement.
"In that regard the selection and appeals process to date will form part of an overall review of the preparation for London and the performance of Irish athletes there.
Athletics Ireland Chief Executive John Foley added: "We have to acknowledge that the past three weeks has been enormously difficult for the athletes involved in this appeal process, their families, supporters and friends.
"At this point however there is a final decision as to selection and we believe that it is now in the interests of all that we focus our attention on the Games themselves."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18966792
QuoteThe tribunal found that the initial selection of Cuddihy had been correct based on the full range of criteria.
What was the criteria is the question. Mills statement seemed to indicate that the performance director indicated "commitment to the relay team" as a reason, though she cites her own commitment in the statement.
Feel sorry for the girl, but id guess more nepotism at play than sectarianism here.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 24, 2012, 03:52:03 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 02:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 24, 2012, 01:43:31 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 09:30:49 AM
Is it any wonder Unionists try to avoid All-Ireland sporting bodies given the treatment of Joanna Mills, half a second faster than her rival, who's dad just happens to be the team doctor! it's amazing in the year that Nationalists in the North have finally begun to get a semblance of equality from our Unionist brethren, and not too long after "Ireland" embraces Liz ans Phil like long lost cousins we see an outbreak of anti nordie feeling from the South...and from those who think Daley Thompson's remarks were racist too...Pot, kettle, black (no pun intended).
This is a very confused and confusing post. On one hand, you're suggesting it's nepotism, yet you also appear to be implying it's sectarian. Which is it? Because each one is a totally different argument.
No I don't think its sectarian, but it has been reported in NI as being a mix of North vs South and nepotism. I don't think myself that that is necessarily the case but I do believe on results she should have been included. The point I'm making is that it feeds the notion that Northerners don't get a fair shake.
Where has it been reported as north vs south?
By Sidebottom on Radio Ulster earlier today
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2012, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 24, 2012, 10:01:59 AM
Whilst some of my original post was meant to be provocative, two things have emerged that do athletics no favours. Firstly the perception in Unionist quarters (and the suspicion in nationalist ones) is that the selection was based on where the two were from, north vs south. Secondly the whole saga has portrayed Athletics Ireland in a very bad light. Even if it was only the case of Daddy's girls being on the plane it is still a mess.
Frankly there's absolutely no evidence that this is an issue.
I'm not convinced that Mills was overlooked solely because she is from NI. But I wouldn't be surprised if the selectors thought they would get away more easily with overlooking her because she is from NI. And if so, then the distinction won't be of any consolation to the girl herself.
Further, since the girl is very young, she might have decided just to keep her head down and wait her turn etc. but the fact that she (her Coach, actually) raised her case so publicly means he must be risking her standing with Irish Athletics administrators for the future. This suggests to me a very heightened sense of injustice on the part of Coach and Athlete.
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMThere are plenty of Northern athletes who have represented Ireland in the past and there'll be plenty more in the future.
Yes, because their record merited their selection and their performances were hoped to benefit Ireland etc.
Or to put it another way, can you ever see any circumstances when someone might be prompted to point out that "There are plenty of Southern athletes who have represented Ireland in the past and there'll be plenty more in the future."
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMOff the top of my head the two triathlon participants are both from the north as are two of the boxers at least one the cyclists etc.
So?
Or should we infer from that that their inclusion somehow "cancels out" her non-inclusion? ::)
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMI would agree that the whole selection process has been a shambles
The word "shambles" denotes incompetence, such as the selectors not appreciating her ability/availability/fitness etc.
What is being alleged here is more of a scandal i.e. the selectors knew all about her and her credentials for inclusion, but still consciously overlooked her for reasons of nepotism etc
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AM... but as TYP pointed out GB left out the world ranked no 1 in some form of taekwando.
So if another country demonstrates favouritism when selecting their team, that makes it OK for Ireland to do so, then?
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMCuddihy was originally selected and Mills appealed that decision and now Cuddihy has had her appeal upheld.
And it seems that Mills (her Coach) may now appeal to the Court of Arbitration in Sport, the highest body, despite the Games only being 3 days away.
If nothing else, this must all be seriously unsettling for the rest of the relay team, who (presumably) have nothing to answer for in this whole hoo-haa.
Quote from: AQMP on July 24, 2012, 10:22:08 AMFWIW, Mills should be there as she's clearly the better athlete and better looking, but this is the Olympics...
Eh?
EG I think you've misunderstood the thrust of my post. I think Mills should have been selected and that the selection of Cuddihy is wrong, however apart from the ramblings of Mark Sidebottom (he's got his own thread on the main board) there seems to be no evidence (yet) that Mills was de-selected because she is from the North or that there is an anti-northern bias within Athletics Ireland.
Joke decision but is expected in Ireland. Being the best should be only criteria for selection.
The Scoop. 4 runners, 2 reserves. 4 runners (starters) picked were then asked by management who they wanted to be reserves. One Cuddihy obviously wanted her sister to be one and so she was picked. Alot of those girls are good friends for years and picked their friend/family. It shouldnt have been the athlete's choice.
Typical of Irish Athletics that better athlete wasnt picked. Poor management.
But relay runners are not picked solely on flat times. Relay is more complicated than that and handovers etc have to be right so maybe Cuddihy was stronger there and had more experience of relays or of big events. But doubtful. Typical of us and GAA style "i'll play my sons and f uck the fella who's da isnt involved in club but is better."
Heads will roll over it.
But what did we expect? This is the organisation who gave Melanie Knocker goggles that were too big for her and fell off mid-race. The organisation who fought with Sonia O'Sullivan over gear and near pulled gear off her in the tunnel before going out in the Olympics. Farce
Hard for Mills if she does (how could she mix with team) or doesnt get picked
Has Cuddihy championship experience in the relay or significantly more experience in relays? These are genuine questions, I don't know the answers but suspect they could be relevant. Stephen Watson was positively salivating at the prospect of turning this into a North v South issue and suggesting Mills may want to declare for the UK.
As a 19 year old athlete with presumably a brighter future than Cuddihy ahead of her, Mills would seem the more natural choice but considering an athlete's record in relays would seem a reasonable criteron in selecting a relay team and it would be interesting to see how this affected matters. Without knowing the rules, it may also be that the times recorded after the original decision cannot be taken into account.
This is a farce of a decision- better pb and better sb which is also better than the other girls pb. One reason they originally gave was potential - mills is 6 years younger and is already quicker so that doesn't add up.
In terms of commitment to relay mills went to Europeans but couldn't run as she was being rested until the final due to world juniors and then the team were disqualified in he semis. That would suggest she also had the commitment.
Irish athletics should hang their heads in shame for the position they have put these two girls in.
Mills is entitled to a place at the Olympics and you never know what could happen in 4 years so this could be her only chance so she should appeal. The unsettling has already been done.
Olympic selection is discretionary. There are a few other puzzling ones out there - Kenyan mens marathon, British 800 metres women and a few American ones too. It's not necessarily "sectarianism" but I would say who you are would have a bearing.
why dont they have a race and the winner gets the gig.. i'm not joking young mills should challenge the other girl
I'd be farily sure its nothing to do with North v South.
On the initial committee that selected Cuddihy there was one person from the south, one from the north, and one foreigner.
The appeals committee who then went for Mills was made up of 3 from the south.
Not sure what the Olympic Council make up was who decided they should go back to the original decision.
It does come down to politics. Cuddihy has been targeting the relay for the last 18 months or more, and taking part in all the relevant relay training etc. Mills has missed a lot of that as her primary target was the World Juniors.
Neither had a good enough time to qualify for the individual 400m.
You would think it would be a slam dunk to pick the person with the best time (i.e. Mills), but I can see why they made the initial decision to go with Cuddihy, given she's more part of the team, and her sister being our best 400m runner probably paid a part too, and in any event neither is likely to see any track time being ranked number 6 in a 4 person event! And we're not like the Americans that we can rest our best in the heats.
Intererstingly one of the other 400m relay runners is Jessie Barr who is supposed to be a great prospect in the 400m hurdles. While she has a B time for that event, she just missed out on the A time. She could have been picked for the 400m hurdles, but we decided to only pick people who have the A time.
However, given she was good enough to be picked for the relay team, it does seem ridiculous not to allow her take part in the 400m hurdles individual event also, which could only help her development. She could still also take part in the relay, but it would mean we would be allowed pick both Mills and Cuddihy as 5 and 6 in the relay (even though they'd be effectively 6 and 7 - neither would have much chance of track time, but it would have avoided all the mess and angst).
Quote from: Hound on July 25, 2012, 10:41:14 AM
I'd be farily sure its nothing to do with North v South.
On the initial committee that selected Cuddihy there was one person from the south, one from the north, and one foreigner.
The appeals committee who then went for Mills was made up of 3 from the south.
Not sure what the Olympic Council make up was who decided they should go back to the original decision.
It does come down to politics. Cuddihy has been targeting the relay for the last 18 months or more, and taking part in all the relevant relay training etc. Mills has missed a lot of that as her primary target was the World Juniors.
Neither had a good enough time to qualify for the individual 400m.
You would think it would be a slam dunk to pick the person with the best time (i.e. Mills), but I can see why they made the initial decision to go with Cuddihy, given she's more part of the team, and her sister being our best 400m runner probably paid a part too, and in any event neither is likely to see any track time being ranked number 6 in a 4 person event! And we're not like the Americans that we can rest our best in the heats.
Intererstingly one of the other 400m relay runners is Jessie Barr who is supposed to be a great prospect in the 400m hurdles. While she has a B time for that event, she just missed out on the A time. She could have been picked for the 400m hurdles, but we decided to only pick people who have the A time.
However, given she was good enough to be picked for the relay team, it does seem ridiculous not to allow her take part in the 400m hurdles individual event also, which could only help her development. She could still also take part in the relay, but it would mean we would be allowed pick both Mills and Cuddihy as 5 and 6 in the relay (even though they'd be effectively 6 and 7 - neither would have much chance of track time, but it would have avoided all the mess and angst).
It seems that this A time grading is solely set by the Irish olympic committee, possibly to cut costs, but as you rightly point out Jessie Barr is already going as part of the relay team, so why not enter her in the hurdles as well?
The likes of Ciara Mageean will also lose out by not reaching the A grade time this year even though there'll be athletes from other countries competing with slower seasons bests.
It's a bit short sighted of the Irish Olympic committee in denying these young athletes a chance to dip their toes in an Olympics.
It was all southerners who selected Mills so she camn not say that being from the north didn't help.
I think it is a problem caused that the more talented younger runner did not commit to the relay team so she was not selected. In relation to nepotism. Joanne Cuddihy might have had some say being the star runner on the team. But it was Mills that didn't give herself a vouce as being a team member by not attending team practice sessions etc
If I was picking the team now I would have picked Mills but if I was the coach who had said "attend traing sessions if you want to be on the team" I would have to select Cuddihy in order to be fair to the team and keep them happy, one of whom happens to be Cuddihy senior.
Lawnseed seems to be only concerned with athletes from the North who have missed out on selection, surely sectarian in itself.
Quote from: johnneycool on July 25, 2012, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Hound on July 25, 2012, 10:41:14 AM
I'd be farily sure its nothing to do with North v South.
On the initial committee that selected Cuddihy there was one person from the south, one from the north, and one foreigner.
The appeals committee who then went for Mills was made up of 3 from the south.
Not sure what the Olympic Council make up was who decided they should go back to the original decision.
It does come down to politics. Cuddihy has been targeting the relay for the last 18 months or more, and taking part in all the relevant relay training etc. Mills has missed a lot of that as her primary target was the World Juniors.
Neither had a good enough time to qualify for the individual 400m.
You would think it would be a slam dunk to pick the person with the best time (i.e. Mills), but I can see why they made the initial decision to go with Cuddihy, given she's more part of the team, and her sister being our best 400m runner probably paid a part too, and in any event neither is likely to see any track time being ranked number 6 in a 4 person event! And we're not like the Americans that we can rest our best in the heats.
Intererstingly one of the other 400m relay runners is Jessie Barr who is supposed to be a great prospect in the 400m hurdles. While she has a B time for that event, she just missed out on the A time. She could have been picked for the 400m hurdles, but we decided to only pick people who have the A time.
However, given she was good enough to be picked for the relay team, it does seem ridiculous not to allow her take part in the 400m hurdles individual event also, which could only help her development. She could still also take part in the relay, but it would mean we would be allowed pick both Mills and Cuddihy as 5 and 6 in the relay (even though they'd be effectively 6 and 7 - neither would have much chance of track time, but it would have avoided all the mess and angst).
It seems that this A time grading is solely set by the Irish olympic committee, possibly to cut costs, but as you rightly point out Jessie Barr is already going as part of the relay team, so why not enter her in the hurdles as well?
The likes of Ciara Mageean will also lose out by not reaching the A grade time this year even though there'll be athletes from other countries competing with slower seasons bests.
It's a bit short sighted of the Irish Olympic committee in denying these young athletes a chance to dip their toes in an Olympics.
The reason we have no B standards is to stop wasting money on people who are not competitive. Last time out Brian Cowan intervened to send an old Offaly woman who had a B standard in the marathon. Look at the row we are having about Mills. Just think of all the rows the OCI would be dealing with about which B standard athletes to take. I think it is a pity that Mageean and a couple of others are not being given a chance but that is the way it is. mageean has not been in top form this year either.
Besides I think we have a very good team this time out with 66 athletes. A lot of the athletics team won't even be competitive in their events even having made the A standard.
There are two people we will really miss at the olympics that would have medaled that is Joe Ward and Kenyy Egan.
Mills says she's not going to take it to CAS, even though she may have a case, and she wishes the 4x400 team the best of luck
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 25, 2012, 01:26:01 PM
It was all southerners who selected Mills so she camn not say that being from the north didn't help.
I think it is a problem caused that the more talented younger runner did not commit to the relay team so she was not selected. In relation to nepotism. Joanne Cuddihy might have had some say being the star runner on the team. But it was Mills that didn't give herself a vouce as being a team member by not attending team practice sessions etc
If I was picking the team now I would have picked Mills but if I was the coach who had said "attend traing sessions if you want to be on the team" I would have to select Cuddihy in order to be fair to the team and keep them happy, one of whom happens to be Cuddihy senior.
Havent seen her push the north vs south thing.
She seems to say that she had committed to it, that she had changed her tournament plans for the season due to the commitment to the relay etc
"A strong emphasis seems to have been placed on commitment to the relay team by the high performance director of AAI (Kevin Ankrom) when making his final considerations," the Ballymena & Antrim runner said.
"He seems to have not considered that I tried to contact and set up a meeting with him regarding the relay in December 2011."
"And that when he finally did contact me in May, I made a full commitment to the team by changing my plans for the rest of the season -- and particularly my preparations for the World Junior Championships -- by attending the European Championships and participating fully in the relay practices.
Quote from: ludermor on July 25, 2012, 01:34:25 PM
Lawnseed seems to be only concerned with athletes from the North who have missed out on selection, surely sectarian in itself.
Are there any 26 county athletes who were deselected in favour of a 6 county athlete with a slower PB time, about whom he could be concerned about instead then?
Joanna Mills is definitely fitter than Joanne Cuddihy. There's no doubt about it imo...
Mageean has been a good bit off this year johnney to be fair and doesn't really merit going. I'm not even sure she'd have the B standard.
I'm hoping over the next few years she'll pick up and be a genuine contender at the next olympics but it hasn't happened for her just yet for some reason.
Eric the eel went with other countries so some must have lower standards but I think for athletics you require B standard minimum. A standard means it's discretionary against other A standards. (or alternatively like Britains 800 metres you can pick no A standards and pick a B standard)
The 400 girls are well off A or B standard but Mills should be going for the future.
Quote from: Nally Stand on July 25, 2012, 02:27:39 PM
Quote from: ludermor on July 25, 2012, 01:34:25 PM
Lawnseed seems to be only concerned with athletes from the North who have missed out on selection, surely sectarian in itself.
Are there any 26 county athletes who were deselected in favour of a 6 county athlete with a slower PB time, about whom he could be concerned about instead then?
Well there was plenty of debate about whether David McCann was the best choice for the cycling road race in place of the National Road champion for the last 3 years Matt Brammeier ( with Nicolas Roche and Dan Martin being the other 2 to make the team) . Im not saying McCann doesnt deserve to go but Brammeier would have as strong a case as Mills ( IMHO of course)
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 25, 2012, 02:33:46 PM
Mageean has been a good bit off this year johnney to be fair and doesn't really merit going. I'm not even sure she'd have the B standard.
I'm hoping over the next few years she'll pick up and be a genuine contender at the next olympics but it hasn't happened for her just yet for some reason.
Eric the eel went with other countries so some must have lower standards but I think for athletics you require B standard minimum. A standard means it's discretionary against other A standards. (or alternatively like Britains 800 metres you can pick no A standards and pick a B standard)
The 400 girls are well off A or B standard but Mills should be going for the future.
Mageean has been plagued by an ankle problem for most of the year and has posted her seasons best time of 4.10 only two weeks ago, so was coming into form, albeit a little to late to get an A grade time.
Quote from: Nally Stand on July 25, 2012, 02:27:39 PM
Quote from: ludermor on July 25, 2012, 01:34:25 PM
Lawnseed seems to be only concerned with athletes from the North who have missed out on selection, surely sectarian in itself.
Are there any 26 county athletes who were deselected in favour of a 6 county athlete with a slower PB time, about whom he could be concerned about instead then?
Whine whine whine
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTsXKPpor0q5ho0Qme3FRmr2POsOs-L0uexiVBb-IAv_eVFMe1)
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 25, 2012, 01:26:01 PMIn relation to nepotism. Joanne Cuddihy might have had some say being the star runner on the team.
If I was picking the team now I would have picked Mills but if I was the coach who had said "attend traing sessions if you want to be on the team" I would have to select Cuddihy in order to be fair to the team and keep them happy, one of whom happens to be Cuddihy senior.
"In relation to nepotism", the suspicion stem not from the fact that Catriona's sister is the star performer in the relay squad, but that both are the daughters of this man:
Dr Bill Cuddihy, Qualified 1979 R.C.S.I, M.R.C.G.P and Fellow of Faculty of Sports and Exercise Medicine (FFSEM)
Doctor to Irish Athletics Teams, 2000 to 2008
Chief Medical Officer to Athletics Ireland 2007 – 2008
Doctor to Irish Athletics Team Beijing Olympics 2008
http://www.ampk.ie/dr-bill-cuddihy.html
(He's also Doctor to Kilkenny's Hurlers, btw)
Quote from: johnneycool on July 25, 2012, 03:27:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 25, 2012, 02:33:46 PM
Mageean has been a good bit off this year johnney to be fair and doesn't really merit going. I'm not even sure she'd have the B standard.
I'm hoping over the next few years she'll pick up and be a genuine contender at the next olympics but it hasn't happened for her just yet for some reason.
Eric the eel went with other countries so some must have lower standardLs but I think for athletics you require B standard minimum. A standard means it's discretionary against other A standards. (or alternatively like Britains 800 metres you can pick no A standards and pick a B standard)
The 400 girls are well off A or B standard but Mills should be going for the future.
Mageean has been plagued by an ankle problem for most of the year and has posted her seasons best time of 4.10 only two weeks ago, so was coming into form, albeit a little to late to get an A grade time.
She also had one of her worst races ever recently. I don't think she's ready for it yet and her form hasn't been good but hopefully come next Olympics she'll have pushed on and will be challenging for a medal.
Mills has been dignified in the whole thing. Awful debacle.
The North vs South thing is being touted by the BBC. I would have expect nothing else from OWC's Watson, but Sidebottom should know better. But the point is given the nepotism as detailed the selection process has given carte blanche to pro British elemnts in sport and journalism in the north to play this card. I'd also point out that this is the same BBC who employ journalists who when commenting on golf have to be asked about Harrington even though golf organises on an all island basis and Watson is one of the main culprits. Although fair play to Joel Taggart during the open he included the top 4 Irish players in his reports, even though the likes of Seamus McKee failed to enquire.
The 26 vs 6 county thing is an easy conclusion to jump to.
I doubt it has anything to do with anything here.
There are ridiculous decisions in lots of countries olympic team selections which are due to internal politics. The athletics and olympics bodies are rife with internal politics in most countries and they're no difference here.
Very few athletes in the north at the minute would be even close to olympic standard so there's not really any like for like cases here.
Joanna Mills may 'defect' to GB + NI
Michael O'Neill, 26 July 2012
A very demoralised, dejected and disillusioned, Joanna Mills , has confirmed that she has decided not to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) over her exclusion from the Irish 4 x 400m relay squad.
On Tuesday, it was announced ,as we reported then that Catriona Cuddihy had been reinstated to the Irish team at the expense of Mills.
"If I were successful in my CAS appeal, I don't think I would now be comfortable going into the environment of competing in London," Mills told BBC Northern Ireland
"I'm really disappointed with the way the whole thing has been handled, especially by Athletics Ireland, and I hope they learn from it."
"The whole way the high performance management and coaches have dealt with this issue is disheartening and I will have to make a decision"
"It should just be about times and who is running faster, but other factors are coming in to play.
"If it's meant to be, there will be other Olympic Games for me."
Mills said that in the light of recent events she had not ruled out the possibility of switching allegiance to the GB + NI organisation.
"I've got a lot of opportunities through Ireland. A lot of individuals in the set-up have been very good to me.
"I can't in any way ignore that but at the same time, the whole way the high performance management and coaches have dealt with this issue is disheartening and I will have to make a decision.
"But it's not one I'm going to make at the minute – in the middle of all this."
The 19 years old from Mills, Ballymena, was adamant that she holds no grudge against towards Catriona Cuddihy and wished her and the team well for the Games.
"I hope they enjoy it," she concluded
It is easy to understand how disappointed that Joanna Mills must be at this stage following the fiasco but equally it has been an extremely difficult time for Catriona Cuddihy. There are no real winners here.
For Mills though it would be a major error if she were to make any immediate decisions. Time is a great healer. She has a big future ahead of her with the Irish team as some of the present team members are most unlikely to be around in four years time and she has said in her statement, " a lot of individuals in the set-up have been very good to me".
For now, this incident must be put aside in the interests of the Irish team competing in London 2012 but clearly both the Olympic Council of Ireland and particularly Athletics Ireland have serious questions to answer once the Games are over.
Time for a major shake – up to the Athletics Ireland set up at Senior Management level whilst the Olympic Council of Ireland needs to explain why as the ultimate authority they did not satisfy themselves that the selection criteria laid down was clear and beyond legal challenge . Athletics Ireland also needs to explain why Joanna Mills was even included in their squad considering she had not signed the declaration that they had originally insisted all athletes must sign before being considered for the relay squad. Why have rules if one does not abide by them?
All in all, a sad episode in Irish athletics history and one which must not be repeated.
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 26, 2012, 09:44:25 AM
The North vs South thing is being touted by the BBC. I would have expect nothing else from OWC's Watson, but Sidebottom should know better. But the point is given the nepotism as detailed the selection process has given carte blanche to pro British elemnts in sport and journalism in the north to play this card. I'd also point out that this is the same BBC who employ journalists who when commenting on golf have to be asked about Harrington even though golf organises on an all island basis and Watson is one of the main culprits. Although fair play to Joel Taggart during the open he included the top 4 Irish players in his reports, even though the likes of Seamus McKee failed to enquire.
Yes I follow Watson on twitter and he had to be prompted for the Harrington's score during the British Open when you would think GMac, Clarke, McIlroy and Harrington would all be of interest to golf fans "on the island of Ireland".
Quote from: trasna man on July 26, 2012, 01:14:29 PM
Joanna Mills may 'defect' to GB + NI
Michael O'Neill, 26 July 2012
A very demoralised, dejected and disillusioned, Joanna Mills , has confirmed that she has decided not to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) over her exclusion from the Irish 4 x 400m relay squad.
On Tuesday, it was announced ,as we reported then that Catriona Cuddihy had been reinstated to the Irish team at the expense of Mills.
"If I were successful in my CAS appeal, I don't think I would now be comfortable going into the environment of competing in London," Mills told BBC Northern Ireland
"I'm really disappointed with the way the whole thing has been handled, especially by Athletics Ireland, and I hope they learn from it."
"The whole way the high performance management and coaches have dealt with this issue is disheartening and I will have to make a decision"
"It should just be about times and who is running faster, but other factors are coming in to play.
"If it's meant to be, there will be other Olympic Games for me."
Mills said that in the light of recent events she had not ruled out the possibility of switching allegiance to the GB + NI organisation.
"I've got a lot of opportunities through Ireland. A lot of individuals in the set-up have been very good to me.
"I can't in any way ignore that but at the same time, the whole way the high performance management and coaches have dealt with this issue is disheartening and I will have to make a decision.
"But it's not one I'm going to make at the minute – in the middle of all this."
The 19 years old from Mills, Ballymena, was adamant that she holds no grudge against towards Catriona Cuddihy and wished her and the team well for the Games.
"I hope they enjoy it," she concluded
It is easy to understand how disappointed that Joanna Mills must be at this stage following the fiasco but equally it has been an extremely difficult time for Catriona Cuddihy. There are no real winners here.
For Mills though it would be a major error if she were to make any immediate decisions. Time is a great healer. She has a big future ahead of her with the Irish team as some of the present team members are most unlikely to be around in four years time and she has said in her statement, " a lot of individuals in the set-up have been very good to me".
For now, this incident must be put aside in the interests of the Irish team competing in London 2012 but clearly both the Olympic Council of Ireland and particularly Athletics Ireland have serious questions to answer once the Games are over.
Time for a major shake – up to the Athletics Ireland set up at Senior Management level whilst the Olympic Council of Ireland needs to explain why as the ultimate authority they did not satisfy themselves that the selection criteria laid down was clear and beyond legal challenge . Athletics Ireland also needs to explain why Joanna Mills was even included in their squad considering she had not signed the declaration that they had originally insisted all athletes must sign before being considered for the relay squad. Why have rules if one does not abide by them?
All in all, a sad episode in Irish athletics history and one which must not be repeated.
It's up to her who she runs for but there are two points for Mills to bear in mind here, 1) Is she now (or will she be) good enough to make the British team? 2) She may find the GB & NI selection policy as "discriminatory" as the Irish one. I was friendly through work with a guy who was high up the the NI athletics scene up until the mid 90s. He was from a Unionist background but told me that he always advised Northern athletes to run for Ireland since in his words the GB selection policy (then) was that if the choice was close between an athlete from Belfast and one from Birmingham, 9 times out of 10 they went for the one from Birmingham.
Quote from: AQMP on July 26, 2012, 02:45:33 PM
Two points here, 1) Is she (or will she be) good enough to make the British team? 2) She may find the GB & NI selection policy as "discriminatory" as the Irish one.
I read somewhere that her PB wouldn't get her into the UK Top 20. Not sure if it's correct, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.
Tbf, she does have age on her side, but I'd still say she'd likely need to move to GB to take advantage of superior facilities, coaching, competition and funding etc, to improve her chances of making the step-up.
Quote from: AQMP on July 26, 2012, 02:45:33 PM
2) She may find the GB & NI selection policy as "discriminatory" as the Irish one. I was friendly through work with a guy who was high up the the NI athletics scene up until the mid 90s. He was from a Unionist background but told me that he always advised Northern athletes to run for Ireland since in his words the GB selection policy (then) was that if the choice was close between an athlete from Belfast and one from Birmingham, 9 times out of 10 they went for the one from Birmingham.
The whole GB set-up is a million times more professional than it was in the 1990's.
So much so that "home" athletes are complaining that they're getting overlooked in favour of "foreign" athletes, who manage to acquire British eligibility on sometimes tenuous grounds, then get parachuted into Team GB if they're even a 100th of a second quicker than their home-grown counterparts:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletics/9131504/US-born-Tiffany-Porter-fends-off-Plastic-Brit-jibes-after-being-named-Team-GB-captain-for-Istanbul.html
Foreign-born athletes competing for GB in [the World Indoor Athletics Championships in] Istanbul
Tiffany Porter Sprint hurdler from Ypsilanti, Michigan, but qualified to compete for Britain through her London-born mother
Shara Proctor Long jumper from Anguilla, which is a British Overseas Territory whose citizens are full UK passport-holders
Michael Bingham North Carolina-born 400m runner with a British father who won silver for Britain at the 2010 European Championships.
Shana Cox 400m runner who is a native of Long Island, New York, but whose parents were both born in Britain.
Yamile Aldama Triple-jumper who was born in Cuba, has also represented Sudan but is married to a Scotsman and has lived in the UK since 2001. I have no doubt that were Ms. Mills to start posting top UK-standard times, she'd be "knocking on an open door" if she wanted to switch.
Britain gets huge value from Lottery funding but you need to be at the absolute top of your game to get it.
This feeds onto internal politics that people have trained by themselves and met standards but feel they have been overlooked due to not being the "chosen ones".
Also then the lottery funding has metrics with regard to major finals. People who have met all qualifying criteria get overlooked because they may not make finals and impact funding.
Mills was 8th in a world junior semi-final so would have a long way to go to make a british team.
There was another girl at her age in either european or world juniors the other year(Kirk) who was about her standard(slightly lower) but got in the 4 x 400 team and won gold yet Mills got nothing. You basically have more chance of success with Britain due to a) better strength and depth in a relay and b) better access to funding. (James McIlroy shifted due to money)
That being said not something I could bring myself to do...
The Olympics qualification process is a disgrace. The best athletes should be present at the games and in a lot of the sports this will not be the case. This Mills example is another disgrace - how can it be justified that she is out and the other girl is in? Time is all that matters here, not who your sister or da is.
Does each Country have its own Olympic qualifying time or is there a standard Olympic qualifying time for each event. I find it strange that the Blade Runner initially missed out on the individual 400 metres as he didn't meet the time yet Dwain Chambers qualified and he didn't meet the time.
Anyway, can anyone tell me what days I am likely to see Isinbayeva strutting about on HD? I am sure there is bound to be a 'Hot Olympians Thread' created and I'll be happy as long as those GB Volleyball players are kept away from it.
You have olympic A and B standards set by olympics bodies however then it is up to your governing athletics board to set their own too. These obviously must be either equal or quicker than the olympic set ones. Ireland have quicker standards in things like marathons to try and limit the number of people who go but in some other disciplines they will maybe accepth the B standards.
It becomes more complicated when more than the max number of athletes meet these standards. (e.g. womens marathon in Ireland where Maria McCambridge missed out).
I think with regard to the standards you can run them in the olympic year or the year prior to olympic year. Chambers ran A standard last year. It was the same for quite a few womens 800 in Britain - e.g. Meadows and Simpson in 800. I think Kenneally in the marathon ran his marathon standard in 2011 too. I'm not sure if blade runner did meet that standard. If you don't meet the standards you won't be there though.
Chambers is an interesting one. I'm glad to see him go as I think there are cheats there anyway and he's being scapegoated by a lot of people. However I don't think he should be there based on current form - I *think* maybe the brits hands were tied on this one due to publicity.
Relays etc get very political as with Ireland for example no standards have been met so it's all discretionary. Same anywhere though.
Quote from: ludermor on July 25, 2012, 01:34:25 PM
Lawnseed seems to be only concerned with athletes from the North who have missed out on selection, surely sectarian in itself.
where'd you get that from? i said they should have a race the winner gets the place..