Just saw this article in the Indo today
I listen to Pat at one of those Bredagh talks Sam one year.
He was funny but seems to always defend refs no matter what.
I would have thought he knew Duffy had yet another a terrible day at the office and would have just left it at that but no he has to come out then and whinge about people complaining about the ref.
Fair enough some people go OTT, especially immediately after a game when tempers are frayed but surely Pat should also realise that players get a lot of stick for making mistakes or having a stinker so why should Refs not get the same.
Have the rest of ye noticed this too? Refs seem to have their own wee special club and its almost like they're swore not to slag each other off.
McEnaney urges players to tone down ref criticism
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/mcenaney-urges-players-to-tone-down-ref-criticism-3150739.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/mcenaney-urges-players-to-tone-down-ref-criticism-3150739.html)
Referees' chief Pat McEnaney has called on inter-county players to refine the language they use in criticising referees, whatever the forum they choose to make the comments in.
He has urged the same language to be applied to referees that is applied to players and managers when poor performances are being discussed.
McEnaney's appeal comes as a number of Down players took to their Twitter accounts to express their disapproval with the performance of Michael Duffy in Sunday's Ulster semi-final win over Monaghan.
Down won, but Duffy hasn't escaped a blizzard of criticism from some of their players. It was reminiscent of the reaction of Wexford players to referee Derek Fahy's decision to award a late free to Limerick in last year's fourth-round qualifier in Portlaoise. Ian Ryan converted to win the match but only after Fahy had discussed its flight path with an umpire who initially felt it was wide.
Wexford players were adamant that it had been wide and vented their fury on Twitter in the following days.
The GAA have no mechanism to discipline players for what they say on Twitter, but it led to social media guidelines being issued to all members and a conversation on the issue between senior GAA officials and the Gaelic Players Association.
Wexford goalkeeper Anthony Masterson was advised by the Central Competitions Controls Committee (CCCC) to apologise to Fahy for comments he made in a TV interview in the aftermath of the defeat.
Benny Coulter was among the more prominent voices encouraging the GAA to "take a hard look at what went on yesterday! Players put in to much work for that to happen.disgusted," he tweeted.
McEnaney said he wasn't being specific in asking players to consider the words they use more carefully.
"Some of it is unfair and I think unacceptable. Players should use the same language about referees that applies to them when performances are being discussed," he said.
McEnaney said Duffy had accepted he was wrong to allow Tommy Freeman's goal to stand in the 57th minute of the Ulster semi-final, which gave them a four-point cushion.
Duffy had blown for a free and beckoned Down full-back Brendan McArdle towards him to show him a yellow card when Conor McManus took a quick free to Freeman, who finished superbly.
McEnaney said last night that Duffy had "held his hand up".
"I've been speaking to Michael and he is quite happy for it to be known that he got it wrong. We've been trying to encourage the use of an advantage, we've been trying to allow teams the use of a quick free more," said McEnaney.
"But on this occasion he had gestured to the player to come to him and he was going to book him. The player had a right to set himself up in a defensive position. He should have stopped the play."
McEnaney also accepted that if the free did not travel 13 metres then it should have been addressed.
"I don't think Michael has a problem holding his hand up on either front. But I will add this. He was the referee who got us off to a very good start in the first round of the Leinster championship in Longford with a correct call on a square ball."
Duffy appeared to have got two penalty decisions right, the decision to award Down one in the first half after Conor Laverty was fouled and a decision not to penalise Karl O'Connell for a challenge on Conor Garvey.
Garvey must wait to see if he will be pursued by the CCCC for contact he made with his boot on O'Connell's back in the aftermath of that incident.
John Bannon fairly slated Duffy in D'Examiner on monday if ye want to look it up.
I saw that. Thought it was a bit OTT in fairness. As if Bannon never made a mistake in his life.
And Darragh Ó Sé's take on it, in the Irish Times:
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR REFEREES? Duffy on duty again this weekend
Whatever about Seánie Johnston, now for one of the actual real issues that we should be worrying about.
Michael Duffy's performance as referee in the Down v Monaghan game on Sunday was something that is far more serious when it comes to the day-to-day life of the GAA. I know Pat McEnaney has said Duffy holds his hand up over Tommy Freeman's goal but that's all very well at this stage, seeing as Down came back and won the match.
Imagine if Monaghan had gone through. Imagine the fall-out.
And what happens? Nothing. Duffy gets another game six days later – Longford v Derry in the qualifiers on Saturday evening. How can that be right? How can there be no price to pay for such a huge mistake? If a player made a howler like that, he'd be for the bench and rightly so. But referees carry on as if there are no consequences.
The standard of refereeing is the shabbiest part of our association, purely because we don't take it seriously. We wave it off and say they have a hard job to do but we don't support them in doing it. Of course they have a hard job, which is why I think they should be paid.
I've been saying it for ages – no player would have a problem with a referee getting paid if it meant they were better at the job. They're such a crucial part of the game and we're far too blasé about it.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 27, 2012, 04:47:00 PM
. We wave it off and say they have a hard job to do but we don't support them in doing it. Of course they have a hard job, which is why I think they should be paid.
I've been saying it for ages – no player would have a problem with a referee getting paid if it meant they were better at the job. They're such a crucial part of the game and we're far too blasé about it.
Someone should let him know that they do get paid.
Anyways Duffy shouldn't be let near a game either this weekend or the rest of the summer until he learns to apply the same rules to both teams.
I have long been convinced that the more criticism a referee gets, the more likely he is to keep getting games. You would think that this could not possibly be true, but Michael Duffy being appointed to the Longford v. Derry game would suggest that it is. >:( >:( >:(
Hellllooooooooo!
Reality check please people. Referees are human, and humans make mistakes. Its all part and parcel of the game.
Get over it.
I don't expect referees to be perfect.
But Duffy had as much time as needed on Sunday to work out that Freeman's goal was illegal on 3 counts (wrong place, too short, play stopped for booking). Freeman's direct action caused a dead ball. At anytime Duffy could have stepped back and realised his error. But he didn't. With all of this situation in his favour and he still doesn't have the sense/knowledge/balls to make the right call, there is no chance in hell he is going to make right decisions when the pressure is on during open play.
He's not for for purpose. Not Championship football purpose anyway.
Old negative refereeing instincts led him to stop the play, he wasn't even aware he had signalled to the player, he just wanted to let the game flow.
It's a progressive sign that refs are now thinking to play advantage more.
- I've been known to umpire games when I clearly saw a ball curling around the outside of the post, I called it wide and thought nothing of it. Players on the sideline swore blind that it was a point, because from where they were standing they couldn't see the curving path of the ball. They saw the ball appearing between the posts when it went up, it cleared the top of the post as it went wide, and when it went down below the top of the post it had curved back between the posts. People on the sideline can't get it into their heads that there's a reason why umpires are stationed at the actual posts and not on the sideline.
- It's hard to get people to referee games. One of the main reasons is the amount of abuse they have to listen to from armchair experts who never had to blow a whistle and make a call in their lives.
- The GAA has a long way to go in reaching the same levels of respect for officials that exists in rugby or American sports where having a go at the ref would be unthinkable. The only people who should be criticising refs should be people who's job it is to assess referees and provide constructive feedback. Players and managers need to button it.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 28, 2012, 02:01:18 AM
- I've been known to umpire games when I clearly saw a ball curling around the outside of the post, I called it wide and thought nothing of it. Players on the sideline swore blind that it was a point, because from where they were standing they couldn't see the curving path of the ball. They saw the ball appearing between the posts when it went up, it cleared the top of the post as it went wide, and when it went down below the top of the post it had curved back between the posts. People on the sideline can't get it into their heads that there's a reason why umpires are stationed at the actual posts and not on the sideline.
- It's hard to get people to referee games. One of the main reasons is the amount of abuse they have to listen to from armchair experts who never had to blow a whistle and make a call in their lives.
- The GAA has a long way to go in reaching the same levels of respect for officials that exists in rugby or American sports where having a go at the ref would be unthinkable. The only people who should be criticising refs should be people who's job it is to assess referees and provide constructive feedback. Players and managers need to button it.
Eamonn, are you serious? Have you ever seen NFL games with coaches going absolutely batshit crazy at officials? Or Basketball, including Bobby Knight's famous chair across the court. Not to mind the age old tradition of a baseball manager coming out and going nose to nose with a referee before getting 'tossed'?
I take your point about the GAA and how fans or players/managers treat officials, but don't be holding American Sports up as some sort of bastion of righteousness in this area, and I love American Sports.
The biggest problem with Duffy in that game wasnt the goal he allowed, it was his almost completely biased bit of referring for the whole game. It seemed like one rule for Monaghan and a different rule for Down. I thought that was one of the most unprofessional jobs of reffing I've seen. Consistently inconsistent would be the best I could say about him.
I agree, refs can get things wrong as they are only human, but the amount of errors made in that game was beyond just a "bad day". In player terms, if you'd an inter-county player who put in an equivalent performance he'd be off the panel let alone the team.
And now we have the joy of him in the qualifiers. I can only hope he learns from his mistakes last week and at least applies the same rules to both teams....I'm not hopeful though.
There's 3 other refs who spring to mind as being just as bad mind, that boy Hughes from Armagh and the Fermanagh ref (who's name escapes me) and the other M. Duffy.
It's just not good enough given that counties spend lots of money preparing teams which can get knocked out as a result of a bad referee. I'd imagine if the standard continues you could see legal challenges in an attempt to get compensation for the money spent if it can be argued the team was beaten due to poor reffing standards.
Quote from: Orior on June 27, 2012, 10:10:30 PM
Hellllooooooooo!
Reality check please people. Referees are human, and humans make mistakes. Its all part and parcel of the game.
Get over it.
I didn't realise you were an American teenager!
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 28, 2012, 08:53:41 AM
The biggest problem with Duffy in that game wasnt the goal he allowed, it was his almost completely biased bit of referring for the whole game. It seemed like one rule for Monaghan and a different rule for Down. I thought that was one of the most unprofessional jobs of reffing I've seen. Consistently inconsistent would be the best I could say about him.
I agree, refs can get things wrong as they are only human, but the amount of errors made in that game was beyond just a "bad day". In player terms, if you'd an inter-county player who put in an equivalent performance he'd be off the panel let alone the team.
And now we have the joy of him in the qualifiers. I can only hope he learns from his mistakes last week and at least applies the same rules to both teams....I'm not hopeful though.
There's 3 other refs who spring to mind as being just as bad mind, that boy Hughes from Armagh and the Fermanagh ref (who's name escapes me) and the other M. Duffy.
It's just not good enough given that counties spend lots of money preparing teams which can get knocked out as a result of a bad referee. I'd imagine if the standard continues you could see legal challenges in an attempt to get compensation for the money spent if it can be argued the team was beaten due to poor reffing standards.
I agree fully with you and am surprised this hasn't been given more prominence. The Sunday Game analysts never even picked up on this. I'm not from Ulster but this was incredible display of 'different rules for different teams'
Quote from: Give and Go on June 28, 2012, 11:10:20 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 28, 2012, 08:53:41 AM
The biggest problem with Duffy in that game wasnt the goal he allowed, it was his almost completely biased bit of referring for the whole game. It seemed like one rule for Monaghan and a different rule for Down. I thought that was one of the most unprofessional jobs of reffing I've seen. Consistently inconsistent would be the best I could say about him.
I agree, refs can get things wrong as they are only human, but the amount of errors made in that game was beyond just a "bad day". In player terms, if you'd an inter-county player who put in an equivalent performance he'd be off the panel let alone the team.
And now we have the joy of him in the qualifiers. I can only hope he learns from his mistakes last week and at least applies the same rules to both teams....I'm not hopeful though.
There's 3 other refs who spring to mind as being just as bad mind, that boy Hughes from Armagh and the Fermanagh ref (who's name escapes me) and the other M. Duffy.
It's just not good enough given that counties spend lots of money preparing teams which can get knocked out as a result of a bad referee. I'd imagine if the standard continues you could see legal challenges in an attempt to get compensation for the money spent if it can be argued the team was beaten due to poor reffing standards.
I agree fully with you and am surprised this hasn't been given more prominence. The Sunday Game analysts never even picked up on this. I'm not from Ulster but this was incredible display of 'different rules for different teams'
That's my point, of course a referee can make some mistakes over the course of a game but in this particular game he seemed to make a lot of mistakes in favour of Monaghan. It was almost completely one sided refereeing and for me that's why he should be reprimanded, not spcifically the goal as that single incident could be chalked down to a judgement error. The biggest problem with refereeing is this perceived bias with some refs and the inconsistency of the application of the rules from ref to ref.
I agree with a lot of the comments around Duffy on Sunday. I didn't really care which of the two teams won but I just thought the amount of mistakes the ref made was unbelieveable.
Yet here were are on discussing this and I'm shocked how many people on here who are saying you should just shut up and not even discuss it. You should turn a blind eye as its such a hard job and the amount of flack they take is so unfair. We're not saying that isn't true but in my eyes if someone does a good job they should be praised and if someone makes a mess of something then they should be told so as well. Why should it be all swept under the carpet.
I think 2 years ago Sludden made a mess of that final and deprived Louth of their first title in years.
Are you guys saying we should comment on that and should just shrug our shoulders and say ah well, its a hard job. Leave them alone.
Would any of ye defending them be refs at some level yourselves by any chance?
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 28, 2012, 11:51:04 AM
I agree with a lot of the comments around Duffy on Sunday. I didn't really care which of the two teams won but I just thought the amount of mistakes the ref made was unbelieveable.
Yet here were are on discussing this and I'm shocked how many people on here who are saying you should just shut up and not even discuss it. You should turn a blind eye as its such a hard job and the amount of flack they take is so unfair. We're not saying that isn't true but in my eyes if someone does a good job they should be praised and if someone makes a mess of something then they should be told so as well. Why should it be all swept under the carpet.
I think 2 years ago Sludden made a mess of that final and deprived Louth of their first title in years.
Are you guys saying we should comment on that and should just shrug our shoulders and say ah well, its a hard job. Leave them alone.
Would any of ye defending them be refs at some level yourselves by any chance?
+1
Why should referees be excused criticism? They play a part in our games and in a way you could argue that the current standard of refs do as much to ruin the game as any tactic teams may use.
On the topic of Sludden, he's now dropped from the panel of intercounty refs. Seems to me like he has been punished but not officially so. IMO, he should have been dropped off the referee panel after that game, but no...the GAA keep him there as they dont want to be seen to scrutinise a ref, but then 2 years later drop him of the referee panel under the radar.
Did you actually read the article you posted?
You said:
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 27, 2012, 03:45:52 PM
surely Pat should also realise that players get a lot of stick for making mistakes or having a stinker so why should Refs not get the same.
Evem though McEnaney said:
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 27, 2012, 03:45:52 PM
He has urged the same language to be applied to referees that is applied to players and managers when poor performances are being discussed.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
John Bannon fairly slated Duffy in D'Examiner on monday if ye want to look it up.
Was Bannon not one of the worst refs in the country?
"Letting the game go" as someone termed it is a completely alien concept to Duffy.
I wonder was he encouraged to allow a more physical game ahead of the monaghan game by the new head of referees?
Referees don't "get" respect because they are volunteers. In any walk of life you earn respect.
I think I speak for most players/fans in saying that no matter how bad a ref is, as long as he is bad for both teams, then it's easier to get over whatever mistakes/interpretations he has made in a game.
Duffy blatantly favoured Monaghan in his decisions last week, inescapable at club level but simply unacceptable at IC level.
Hats off to the Antrim county board at the weekend, they ran a very professional referees health and fitness test at Rathmore school.
This provided the referees and the people looking after the referees a idea of their fitness levels and a basic health check which included a BMI, blood pressure, and cholesterol check (mine sitting at 5.1 >:()
They also did a beep test, which shocked everyone, the look on their faces :P, must were fooked after the warm up lol!! Fair play and hope it continues and is being done in all counties
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 30, 2012, 12:06:28 PM
"Letting the game go" as someone termed it is a completely alien concept to Duffy.
I wonder was he encouraged to allow a more physical game ahead of the monaghan game by the new head of referees?
Referees don't "get" respect because they are volunteers. In any walk of life you earn respect.
Referee's job is to apply the rules of the game. "Letting the game go" is not mentioned in the rule book . If two teams choose to foul each other for the whole game so be it ................. not the ref's job to "let the game go".
Main problem imvho is the utter contempt players have for referees at senior/ intermediate club level but not generally at junior football level where I think players are more forgiving. The usual practise of having two umpires from each club doesn't help either.
Way past time to have 2 refs at every county game and club championships.
One man cant do it all with the speed of the game - can we at least try it.
Basketball has three refs on a court with 10 players thats about one twentieth the size of a gaa pitch
Quote from: Canalman on March 11, 2013, 02:29:22 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 30, 2012, 12:06:28 PM
"Letting the game go" as someone termed it is a completely alien concept to Duffy.
I wonder was he encouraged to allow a more physical game ahead of the monaghan game by the new head of referees?
Referees don't "get" respect because they are volunteers. In any walk of life you earn respect.
Referee's job is to apply the rules of the game. "Letting the game go" is not mentioned in the rule book . If two teams choose to foul each other for the whole game so be it ................. not the ref's job to "let the game go".
Main problem imvho is the utter contempt players have for referees at senior/ intermediate club level but not generally at junior football level where I think players are more forgiving. The usual practise of having two umpires from each club doesn't help either.
I think a lot of refs could apply the advantage rule better.
My experience of Dublin club games (Divisions 1 and 2) is that refs are treated reasonably well. By the players anyway. Division 2 is better, very little backchat - and when there is, the ref is quick to penalise. Refs are definitely slower to penalise the bigger teams with the county players (when you hear a ref calling an intercounty player by his first name, you know you might struggle to get the 50/50s!). At Division 1 level there is definitely more abuse from the sideline, but when the ref cracks down on it hard, he can quickly end it. But again, I find they are slower to crack down on the bigger teams
I remember this time last year, Talty getting thrown out of a Parnells game for roaring at a baldy ref - "take your hair out of your eyes"! That's probably the worst I've heard from a sideline over the last 3 or 4 years, and it was dealt with appropriately, and everyone on all sides ended up laughing about it - bar Talty!
Funny on the umpire thing, another Parnells game I was at recently had no umpires. The Parnells goalie (in Cluxton's absence) was absolutely 100% honest when giving points or waving wides for opposition kicks. While at the other end a corner foward did his very best to convince the ref the ball was over when it was most definitely wide!
Quote from: Orior on June 27, 2012, 10:10:30 PM
Hellllooooooooo!
Reality check please people. Referees are human, and humans make mistakes. Its all part and parcel of the game.
Get over it.
In 03 you had a chap in the AIF who made multiple mistakes, again and again and decided the fixture, not good enough Orior!
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