No getting away with it anymore, i've never seen worse, each game more putrid than the last.
A lot riding on next week's 'glamour' game, if it's shite i might be forced to start watching tennis.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 03, 2012, 10:39:32 PM
A lot riding on next week's 'glamour' game, if it's shite i might be forced to start watching tennis.
it will be - they all will be. This is the 2010's now. I was saying to a work colleuge during the week that it would be great if 2 of the best forwards in Ulster football of the last 20 years would pass some of it on to their 2 teams for todays match - didnt happen
It has been pure dirt to be fair but there are always shit games in all provinces in the first few rounds, takes a while for the cream to rise to the top. Been suggested before, but how much would a rule like always having to have a least 4 forwards in the oppositions half at all times go towards preventing games like todays? It would be easily enough policed.
it wont get any better, been poor now for a number of years, at least longford and wexford is decent to watch though the standard wouldn't be of the highest, ulster managers care about results and in some cases just keeping games tight, nearly all the teams in ulster play a very defensive game (negative) in search of the Anglo Celt, most know that system wouldn't work for an all ireland though donegal nearly proved different last year, Tyrone with abit more talent than the rest can afford to play more open but teams with less talent will play defensive, keep it tight to near the end of the game and try wear down / catch the opposition on the hop. its terrible as a spectator sport, terrible to watch on TV, but i cant see what can be done about it,
It's awful stuff. All 4 provinces are suffering though some of the mismatches at this stage in other provinces disguises it.
All Jim McGuinness's fault. If he can take a middlin side to the cusp of an All-Ireland we'll all do it now. Dublin and Tyrone got away with it as they'd explosive enough forwards and a bit of pace on the counter to rack up 20 scores. The likes of Fermanagh will try to win a game scoring 10 times.
Seriously believe we're going to see a 11 or 12 score game this year. 0-7 to 0-5. A score for each every 10 bucking minutes.
Quote from: ONeill on June 04, 2012, 12:07:50 AM
It's awful stuff. All 4 provinces are suffering though some of the mismatches at this stage in other provinces disguises it.
All Jim McGuinness's fault. If he can take a middlin side to the cusp of an All-Ireland we'll all do it now. Dublin and Tyrone got away with it as they'd explosive enough forwards and a bit of pace on the counter to rack up 20 scores. The likes of Fermanagh will try to win a game scoring 10 times.
Seriously believe we're going to see a 11 or 12 score game this year. 0-7 to 0-5. A score for each every 10 bucking minutes.
That's choice stuff coming from a re hand!!
Armagh's "invention" became Tyrone's dogma and now everyone from Fermanagh to Kerry is playing the possession game, the Irish version of rugby league - without the disciplne!
Gaelic football is at crisis point. It's mostly unwatchable unless you are a diehard supporter. So called sports scientists have taken a beautiful pyhysical encounter and turned it into a negative keep-ball bore-fest.
So today, two of the most exciting forwards of the last 30 years preside over teams whose workaday "athletes" go out only to prevent their counterparts from playing - and to hell with skill and expression.
Watch those attendance figures tumble.
I know what you mean with the Tyrone thing but from 03-08 their defensive players (all 12-13 of them) were equally capable of scoring a couple of points a game.
That's the thing which disappoints me most. I know Canavan can't make a silk purse or polish a turd but there's an ethos he can promote. He's not anywhere near the major villain but I think managers who espouse an attacking philosophy (or even a traditional 6 forwards one) should be given a bit of a free ride from the press and supporters. Tipping point indeed. 13-a-side is shuttling our direction.
I'm not paying in to watch that crap. I know the 80s football was neanderthalic but at least it was full blooded 15 v 15. It's a tough one because players and managers are tactically intelligent and know the value in percentages. We'll never have the traditional game again and there's also value in that.
The game is evolving with 5-12 on the team sheet played with the same directives. It's a cleverer game but hard on the eyes unless you have 3 excellent forwards on both sides.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 03, 2012, 11:59:59 PM
it wont get any better, been poor now for a number of years, at least longford and wexford is decent to watch though the standard wouldn't be of the highest, ulster managers care about results and in some cases just keeping games tight, nearly all the teams in ulster play a very defensive game (negative) in search of the Anglo Celt, most know that system wouldn't work for an all ireland though donegal nearly proved different last year, Tyrone with abit more talent than the rest can afford to play more open but teams with less talent will play defensive, keep it tight to near the end of the game and try wear down / catch the opposition on the hop. its terrible as a spectator sport, terrible to watch on TV, but i cant see what can be done about it,
Thought it was poor myself. Was near ten minutes in before anyone kicked a ball in play. Gave up at half time.
Am I alone in thinking that todayss game was dead on
Quote from: rrhf on June 04, 2012, 01:37:02 AM
Am I alone in thinking that todayss game was dead on
I hope so.
No real Cush talent on view. Fermanagh's first score from play was when?
Minor football is better viewing than the main event.
Quote from: The Worker on June 04, 2012, 08:10:53 AM
Minor football is better viewing than the main event.
I used to think the same until I went to watch the Derry v Donegal minor game last weekend. Donegal played the same way as their senior team. Even when they needed to push on in the second half they insisted in playing with 2 men inside the Derry 45. It will eventually seep into other counties. It has already become prevalent at club level.
The Wexford Longford game was poor as well, two teams oveplaying the ball and trying their best not to score. The Dubs were made look special by a poor Louth team. Makes me long for the balmy days of autumn watching Cross strut there stuff. County teams could take a leaf out of Tony's book.
Quote from: oakleafgael on June 04, 2012, 10:24:51 AM
Quote from: The Worker on June 04, 2012, 08:10:53 AM
Minor football is better viewing than the main event.
I used to think the same until I went to watch the Derry v Donegal minor game last weekend. Donegal played the same way as their senior team. Even when they needed to push on in the second half they insisted in playing with 2 men inside the Derry 45. It will eventually seep into other counties. It has already become prevalent at club level.
Agree, for a while the derry players just passed the ball along the 45, no donegal players near them
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 04, 2012, 10:31:09 AM
The Wexford Longford game was poor as well, two teams oveplaying the ball and trying their best not to score. The Dubs were made look special by a poor Louth team. Makes me long for the balmy days of autumn watching Cross strut there stuff. County teams could take a leaf out of Tony's book.
Watched the second half of the Longford/Wexford game and then Spillane and Brolley analyzing/talking over each other, both arguing in agreement (hard to do, but the two boyos managed it) that the players with a bit of ability to take scores and kick passes are being coached out of the game based on banal stats, don't take the chance and kick for a score, just pass it sideways until you're 30 yards in front of the posts. In the meantime there's 20 odd players in that area and the ball is going nowhere.
Is kicking a ball a no no with these coaches now as its too risky?
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 04, 2012, 10:31:09 AM
The Wexford Longford game was poor as well, two teams oveplaying the ball and trying their best not to score. The Dubs were made look special by a poor Louth team. Makes me long for the balmy days of autumn watching Cross strut there stuff. County teams could take a leaf out of Tony's book.
or dublin's book. the ulster championship is heading back to the 70's.
Calm down there Indy. The dubs have beaten louth after not making the top four in the league. They were second only to donegal in defensiveness last year and are far from pleasing on the eye when they think they're in a contest.
Besides, as you said yourself so many times, Gilroy hasn't a clue and Dublin are on the road to nowhere.
Right, trying to look positively on it - poor game between Fermanagh and Down, yet looking at the stats, Down's 12 scores were by 11 different players. Is this not a way of beating the blanket defence?
I would like to commend McCartan and Down on achieving 2-10 against a team intent defence.
The main answer to how to beat it arises in the basic skills, and this is true for all team sports. Excellence will shine through if a team is handling passing and moving the ball well.
What cheeses me off watching these matches is not the blanket defence, but dropping passes, poor shooting, bad tackling and start stop football. I actually could watch Donegal last year because I thought their defence and tackling was first class, up there with the Meath defence in late 80s/early 90s.
It is up to the coaches of our teams to provide a winning formula to beat blanket defence; this has to lie in better ball skills, long range shooting, faster forwards, moving the ball at speed and accurately, which will in turn make a better spectacle.
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 04, 2012, 12:12:53 PM
Calm down there Indy. The dubs have beaten louth after not making the top four in the league. They were second only to donegal in defensiveness last year and are far from pleasing on the eye when they think they're in a contest.
Besides, as you said yourself so many times, Gilroy hasn't a clue and Dublin are on the road to nowhere.
Introduce yourself to our scoring stats ;D.
Ulster championship is beyond awful at the moment. Plenty of talent available to Mark Anscombe if he needs a few players next year.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on June 04, 2012, 12:15:34 PM
Right, trying to look positively on it - poor game between Fermanagh and Down, yet looking at the stats, Down's 12 scores were by 11 different players. Is this not a way of beating the blanket defence?
We also had some good quick hands for passing which meant the blanket could never focus around one player.
There are ways to beat the blanket, but it takes absolute precision with passes and good running off the ball. One mis-step or pause to take a bad pass and the move will break down.
Of course, another way to beat the blanket is to have men that can regularly score from 40+ yards. Very hard to hold the blanket defence out that far.
Can't mind the score but did one of the lower half Ulster teams not take Dublin apart in the league this year?
Scoring heavily against weak & tactically inept outfits like louth can tilt the stats all right.
That's five or six times your criticism and vitriol last year towards Gilroy has been cast up to you and you consistently blank it. I'd have thought a man of your calibre would by now have had the good grace to acknowledge your error and hold your hands up?
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 04, 2012, 12:29:56 PM
Can't mind the score but did one of the lower half Ulster teams not take Dublin apart in the league this year?
Scoring heavily against weak & tactically inept outfits like louth can tilt the stats all right.
That's five or six times your criticism and vitriol last year towards Gilroy has been cast up to you and you consistently blank it. I'd have thought a man of your calibre would by now have had the good grace to acknowledge your error and hold your hands up?
I'm glad you brought him to task over this. And yes, only a week or so after armagh got hammered in croker (when we were told that other teams like us were light years behind in 'conditioning' etc, then down put dublin to the sword fairly easily in newry.
Finally, one of the few games i went to last year was donegal v dublin in the semi final. I have said it a number of times, i found it fairly interesting to watch. Standing on hill 16, listening to the venom coming from the dub fans ( i actually like dublin, and was there with dub mates) about how shite both teams were. It was interesting as donegal had a game plan, carried out really well, lost lacey and ran out of steam. Dublin for the first 50 minutes kicked balls into a brogan with 4 men hanging of him, i mean really hopeful aimless balls, they hadn't a notion until their super sub came on.
And yes i agree, the ulster championship is fairly muck, just as most of the other games are until July anyway. Still, I wouldn't watch any other sport over it
So once again the annual analysis of shite football begins. The reality is that consistent quality of football matches only really begins come July as the pitches firm up and the fitness is at a peak. Also by that stage you're down to the last 16 or so teams and the quality is evidently going to be better. When a lot of us grew up the only games we saw on the TV were the AI semis and finals. Nowadays with 2-3 games every weekend and the over analysis of the the game by so many different medias we are flooded by games and therefore have higher expectations.
True football has become more defensive and more focused on fitness than skill but as he season progresses the fitness generally evens out and the skill/tactics become the winning factors. It is easier for inter county managers to coach a team to play 12 men behind the ball and move the ball through the hands as the reality is that it makes the coaches job easier and they have a "job" to maintain by winning games. Very few of them will risk that "job" by going out to win. Also if there is not a culture among a county team/club team of kicking the ball then it is not easy to change that. A manager comes in to a county set up with ideals to play fast flowing kick passing football and finds out that half the squad cannot kick a ball accurately over 30 yards because they have come from a coaching system either within the county or in their clubs where the focus was moving the ball through the hands and very little work done on kick passing. What is any manager to do?
The reality is that rule changes may make no difference but there needs to ba a change of mindset. In fairness to Dublin they have hybrided(is there such a word?) their game to mix in the phyiscal, hard working game common today with a strong ability to play long early passes into space for the forwards to work with. The game is eveolving and always evolves but the reality is it will never change so much that there needs to be drastic changes. The only change needed is in the head.
Your're a crowd of whinging feckers, Down played quite well yesterday, Fermanagh were dirt. Down kicked a good amount of ball, created alot of chances and scored the majority of points from open play, when 2, 3 and 4 get on the score-sheet surely your attacking gameplan is doing all-right.
Who was the MOTM yesterday? a corner forward FFS. The championship will become alot better once these "spoiler" teams are put out of the championship.
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 04, 2012, 12:29:56 PM
Can't mind the score but did one of the lower half Ulster teams not take Dublin apart in the league this year?
Scoring heavily against weak & tactically inept outfits like louth can tilt the stats all right.
That's five or six times your criticism and vitriol last year towards Gilroy has been cast up to you and you consistently blank it. I'd have thought a man of your calibre would by now have had the good grace to acknowledge your error and hold your hands up?
you find the vitriol and i'll agree with you. I'll give you a dictionary in case you dont know what vitriol means. As it happens i know Gilroy better then you since i see him every other day.
Just remember where Sam sits. It aint in Ulster and wont be for a long long time. We're long past the stage of league titles in Dublin. You could probably use one in armagh. even a div 2 one.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on June 04, 2012, 12:15:34 PM
Right, trying to look positively on it - poor game between Fermanagh and Down, yet looking at the stats, Down's 12 scores were by 11 different players. Is this not a way of beating the blanket defence?
I would like to commend McCartan and Down on achieving 2-10 against a team intent defence.
The main answer to how to beat it arises in the basic skills, and this is true for all team sports. Excellence will shine through if a team is handling passing and moving the ball well.
What cheeses me off watching these matches is not the blanket defence, but dropping passes, poor shooting, bad tackling and start stop football. I actually could watch Donegal last year because I thought their defence and tackling was first class, up there with the Meath defence in late 80s/early 90s.
It is up to the coaches of our teams to provide a winning formula to beat blanket defence; this has to lie in better ball skills, long range shooting, faster forwards, moving the ball at speed and accurately, which will in turn make a better spectacle.
Really?
Quote from: INDIANA on June 04, 2012, 11:47:17 AM
...the ulster championship is heading back to the 70's.
Dream on Indy, in your dreams :P...
1. The inferiority complex of the 70s is just that, of the
70s!
2. Half of the potential star footballers aren't currently locked up in Long Kesh.
3. There was no equivalent of Mickey Harte, or James Mc Cartan for that matter, in the 70s.
Quote from: The Worker on June 04, 2012, 08:10:53 AM
Minor football is better viewing than the main event.
At underage level teams go out and impress. When it comes to senior football teams are in fear of losing.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 04, 2012, 04:39:45 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 04, 2012, 11:47:17 AM
...the ulster championship is heading back to the 70's.
Dream on Indy, in your dreams :P...
1. The inferiority complex of the 70s is just that, of the 70s!
2. Half of the potential star footballers aren't currently locked up in Long Kesh.
3. There was no equivalent of Mickey Harte, or James Mc Cartan for that matter, in the 70s.
her majesty's government wasn't funding much sport in NI back in the 70s either.
That all being said...the Ulster Championship is muck.
thought the fermanagh v down game was rubbish too - there was very little skill on offer.
unfortunately the games arent going to get much better.
i know quite a few people who have lost interest in inter-county football and with dwindling attendances it seems that there are a lot of disillusioned supporters out there.
it's obvious that a major revamp to the championship is needed but really what can be done to improve things? reduced ticket prices would maybe help short term but what about long term?
Quote from: clarshack on June 05, 2012, 10:34:37 AM
it's obvious that a major revamp to the championship is needed but really what can be done to improve things?
That is simply not true. The last thing needed is yet another "meeja" driven change for change's sake.
There are a number of things affecting attendances, only some of which are inside the GAA's control. A few of the more pertinent ones are:
- Ticket prices.
- Quality of match.
- Price of petrol/diesel.
- Lack of free time for people.
- relentless negative campaigning by third-rate time servers masquerading as pundits.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 05, 2012, 11:12:39 AM
Quote from: clarshack on June 05, 2012, 10:34:37 AM
it's obvious that a major revamp to the championship is needed but really what can be done to improve things?
That is simply not true. The last thing needed is yet another "meeja" driven change for change's sake.
There are a number of things affecting attendances, only some of which are inside the GAA's control. A few of the more pertinent ones are:
- Ticket prices.
- Quality of match.
- Price of petrol/diesel.
- Lack of free time for people.
The cost of going to watch a game of amateurs is unreal. The price of tickets and fuel alone is leaving people having to spend a serious bit of money to go to games that they can watch for free on TV.
Ticket prices do need to be slashed in fairness.
€20 is plenty for a stand ticket in Croke Park.
€15 is plenty for a stand ticket anywhere else.
€15 onto the terrace in Croke Park, a tenner everywhere else.
Then jack up the price for semi-finals and finals.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 04, 2012, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 04, 2012, 12:29:56 PM
Can't mind the score but did one of the lower half Ulster teams not take Dublin apart in the league this year?
Scoring heavily against weak & tactically inept outfits like louth can tilt the stats all right.
That's five or six times your criticism and vitriol last year towards Gilroy has been cast up to you and you consistently blank it. I'd have thought a man of your calibre would by now have had the good grace to acknowledge your error and hold your hands up?
you find the vitriol and i'll agree with you. I'll give you a dictionary in case you dont know what vitriol means. As it happens i know Gilroy better then you since i see him every other day.
Just remember where Sam sits. It aint in Ulster and wont be for a long long time. We're long past the stage of league titles in Dublin. You could probably use one in armagh. even a div 2 one.
It would be quite amusing to go back 3 or 4 years to retrieve some of your quotes about Dublin not winning Sam for the foreseeable future.
I'd be fairly immune to "bad football" debate in the early stages of the championship as I invariably tend to be at a club game on a Sunday so don't see that much football on the tv. There's no doubt that what I have seen this year has been poor but I would also suspect the GAA would rank very highly in terms of the percentage of matches it shows featuring teams outside the top quarter in quality (not a criticism by any means).
I'd agree with Hardy that the GAA must surely be alone in having spawned a collection of pundits who are seemingly so utterly intent on highlighting all the negative facets of each and every match to almost the exclusion of anything positive. That said, I do believe the restriction of the amount of players a team can drop behind the ball might be something to look at in future.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 05, 2012, 12:39:39 PM
Ticket prices do need to be slashed in fairness.
€20 is plenty for a stand ticket in Croke Park.
€15 is plenty for a stand ticket anywhere else.
€15 onto the terrace in Croke Park, a tenner everywhere else.
Then jack up the price for semi-finals and finals.
£20 into a non covered wooden seated stand to watch absolute trip on sunday in Fermanagh. If thats not turning fans away I dont no what will.
Quote from: whitegoodman on June 05, 2012, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 05, 2012, 12:39:39 PM
Ticket prices do need to be slashed in fairness.
€20 is plenty for a stand ticket in Croke Park.
€15 is plenty for a stand ticket anywhere else.
€15 onto the terrace in Croke Park, a tenner everywhere else.
Then jack up the price for semi-finals and finals.
£20 into a non covered wooden seated stand to watch absolute trip on sunday in Fermanagh. If thats not turning fans away I dont no what will.
£20 into any Ulster Championship game is a joke. Why so expensive?
I even remember going to a Derry v Armagh McKenna Cup game in 2008 and it was £8.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 05, 2012, 12:39:39 PM
Ticket prices do need to be slashed in fairness.
€20 is plenty for a stand ticket in Croke Park.
€15 is plenty for a stand ticket anywhere else.
€15 onto the terrace in Croke Park, a tenner everywhere else.
Then jack up the price for semi-finals and finals.
i would agree with Jinxy on the above.
Or alternatively if your a regular attender of matches buy a season ticket i got access to 7 league games plus a semi final and league final plus Downs first Championship match for 75 Euro thats 7.50 a game. Plus others used it for Hogan Cup final Club Finals on st Patricks day. Obviously from here on in im charged full whack for games Down are involved in with the option to opt out once but come on thats great value.
Ps. If you dont like the Ulster championship dont watch it, there are 9 counties that love it we dont need anyones approval
Season tickets are a great idea but you have to appeal to the casual supporter as well.
Especially in the early rounds.
The only way to do that is reduce the prices.
Anyone I've talked to has said the price is crazy and puts them off knowing that the fare on offer on the field is likely to be of poor standard. €25 to sit in the McGrane Stand for an opening round game is mad. You are at the mercy of the elements be it sun or rain and then you've to tr**p to either side of stand to visit toilet and get for a shop - normally to be confronted by a queue. Far from ideal if you are taking kids.
Give me a club game any day of the week, €5 in and likely to be more entertaining on the field. And thats just a league match.
i totally agree that ticket prices are too high. Croke park is a state of the art stadium that they charge 25 euros into the stands for.
In Enniskillen on sunday they were also charging 25 euro into an open timber seating area. and it was also 25 euro for a seat on the opposite side of the pitch to a stand with a roof. Crazy.
I wouldnt pay it either to be honest. When i didnt have a season ticket Terrace was the way to go.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 05, 2012, 12:50:09 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 04, 2012, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on June 04, 2012, 12:29:56 PM
Can't mind the score but did one of the lower half Ulster teams not take Dublin apart in the league this year?
Scoring heavily against weak & tactically inept outfits like louth can tilt the stats all right.
That's five or six times your criticism and vitriol last year towards Gilroy has been cast up to you and you consistently blank it. I'd have thought a man of your calibre would by now have had the good grace to acknowledge your error and hold your hands up?
you find the vitriol and i'll agree with you. I'll give you a dictionary in case you dont know what vitriol means. As it happens i know Gilroy better then you since i see him every other day.
Just remember where Sam sits. It aint in Ulster and wont be for a long long time. We're long past the stage of league titles in Dublin. You could probably use one in armagh. even a div 2 one.
It would be quite amusing to go back 3 or 4 years to retrieve some of your quotes about Dublin not winning Sam for the foreseeable future.
I'd be fairly immune to "bad football" debate in the early stages of the championship as I invariably tend to be at a club game on a Sunday so don't see that much football on the tv. There's no doubt that what I have seen this year has been poor but I would also suspect the GAA would rank very highly in terms of the percentage of matches it shows featuring teams outside the top quarter in quality (not a criticism by any means).
I'd agree with Hardy that the GAA must surely be alone in having spawned a collection of pundits who are seemingly so utterly intent on highlighting all the negative facets of each and every match to almost the exclusion of anything positive. That said, I do believe the restriction of the amount of players a team can drop behind the ball might be something to look at in future.
I agree with this point, but just a clarification. It's not the GAA that has spawned this, it's football. Hurling pundits seem to feel it is there mission to be evangelists for the game, and even bad games are analysed fairly, with good skills being highlighted. Football pundits are too keen to make/keep a name for themselves, and seem to actually hate the game they should love.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 05, 2012, 09:47:49 PM
Money's gotta be raised to cover the significant amount of activity the Ulster Council does I guess. I'm sure they're worked out the numbers to bring in the best amount of revenue from the gates comparing ticket prices to expected attendances. Lowering prices may entice a few more people, but if it doesn't generate more revenue otherwise then they'll not likely go for it.
Except that while lowering your gates may be revenue neutral in terms of increasing volume but decreasing margin on a per ticket basis, it is definitely a huge gain in terms of atmosphere and the peripheral spin offs like concessions etc.
I would prefer to see 20k at €10 a head rather than 10k at €20 a head if I were the GAA.
That's exactly it.
Quote from: snoopdog on June 05, 2012, 02:48:28 PM
When i didnt have a season ticket Terrace was the way to go.
The GAA in general need to pay attention to this - many people don't actually want a seat. I certainly don't get anything like the same enjoyment when watching a match sitting down.
So the crusade for all seater stadia are both pushing up prices and depriving people of what they actually want.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 06, 2012, 01:38:57 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on June 05, 2012, 02:48:28 PM
When i didnt have a season ticket Terrace was the way to go.
The GAA in general need to pay attention to this - many people don't actually want a seat. I certainly don't get anything like the same enjoyment when watching a match sitting down.
So the crusade for all seater stadia are both pushing up prices and depriving people of what they actually want.
+1. Terracing is a much more enjoyable experience during a good match.
Quote from: Armaghgeddon on June 04, 2012, 03:20:30 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on June 04, 2012, 12:15:34 PM
Right, trying to look positively on it - poor game between Fermanagh and Down, yet looking at the stats, Down's 12 scores were by 11 different players. Is this not a way of beating the blanket defence?
I would like to commend McCartan and Down on achieving 2-10 against a team intent defence.
The main answer to how to beat it arises in the basic skills, and this is true for all team sports. Excellence will shine through if a team is handling passing and moving the ball well.
What cheeses me off watching these matches is not the blanket defence, but dropping passes, poor shooting, bad tackling and start stop football. I actually could watch Donegal last year because I thought their defence and tackling was first class, up there with the Meath defence in late 80s/early 90s.
It is up to the coaches of our teams to provide a winning formula to beat blanket defence; this has to lie in better ball skills, long range shooting, faster forwards, moving the ball at speed and accurately, which will in turn make a better spectacle.
Really?
Yeah - judging by McCartans interview after the game, he knew that it wasn't the best showing - seemed glad to get the result, as were all Down Fans.
At this stage I reckon, with the poor standard of football usually prevalent in early rounds, and considering opposing tactics, 2-10 was commendable enough and did the job. Thats all really.
got the best game of the championship today, good points, and good open -play, next week welcome to the worst game of the championship with gaelic football played the way it shouldn`t be played, Derry played very open and gung ho last year but to match this type of game Derry will have to go very negative to have a chance, but i dont think derry have the know how to play that type of game
nothing wrong with 12 quid in today, good spot on the terrace, jes i hate sitting down anyway. Armagh was looking well today, great wee stadium, and good open football
From the muck came the All Ireland champions.
All Ireland club football and hurling champions as well!
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 23, 2012, 10:33:54 PM
All Ireland club football and hurling champions as well!
and the 7's yesterday !! Crap province altogether !
Ye are missing the point here. It wouldn't matter if an Ulster team won the World Cup - it's the style of football that's shite. Pure muck is right.
Donegal can string together a few passages of play but generally we're a province of shit-to-watch county football.
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2012, 10:46:54 PM
Ye are missing the point here. It wouldn't matter if an Ulster team won the World Cup - it's the style of football that's shite. Pure muck is right.
Donegal can string together a few passages of play but generally we're a province of shit-to-watch county football.
It's been generally accepted by the gaa media that Donegal got their style of football from Tyrone, is this true?
So in senior football and hurling in county and club in 2012 Ulster have won 3 out of 4, not a bad auld turnaround :D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2012, 11:45:45 AM
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2012, 10:46:54 PM
Ye are missing the point here. It wouldn't matter if an Ulster team won the World Cup - it's the style of football that's shite. Pure muck is right.
Donegal can string together a few passages of play but generally we're a province of shit-to-watch county football.
It's been generally accepted by the gaa media that Donegal got their style of football from Tyrone, is this true?
only partly... donegal style has always had a strong emphasis on the handpassing and running game.
Quote from: cadence on September 24, 2012, 10:36:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2012, 11:45:45 AM
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2012, 10:46:54 PM
Ye are missing the point here. It wouldn't matter if an Ulster team won the World Cup - it's the style of football that's shite. Pure muck is right.
Donegal can string together a few passages of play but generally we're a province of shit-to-watch county football.
It's been generally accepted by the gaa media that Donegal got their style of football from Tyrone, is this true?
only partly... donegal style has always had a strong emphasis on the handpassing and running game.
They are very defensive also, players play all over the park and break in numbers with running and handpassing. For me (and the pundits) this was a Tyrone trait
Look at the way Cross won the Club AI, traditional no nonsense football.
It's mostly down to increased fitness levels...when I was a cub it was said 'let the ball do the work'. That's fine but has risks i.e. interceptions, misplaced kicks etc. Modern intelligent coaches like Harte and McGuinness have simply said 'let the man do the work' as it's less risky, and more to the point he can now do so due to his conditioning.
Tyrone don't kick the ball at all, Donegal kick periodically from the 40. You saw the failings of the modern team in the first half of the AI final. The best team in the country continually gave the ball away every time they tried to play a foot pass of any distance. They got that knocked out of them a half time and went back to running and handpassing.
Bottom line is that possession is king and if the players can now cover the distance that the ball did in a game when I was a cub then it's here to stay. Cross were the exceptions to the rule but unfortunately I don't think that would work at inter-county level as the fitness levels are just too high (men back etc). Ballinderry also attempt to play good football with the emphasis on the foot. Many good club footballers are put off by the nature of the game at inter-county level in that there is no chance to play the game they were coached as youngsters.
The game is still enjoyable imo but it can be hard watched too - especially at club level where poor imitations of Donegal are now the norm. The best footballers usually still win at club level as the fitness levels to play 'the modern game' against them usually aren't quite there. The same can't be said at intercounty level.
QuoteModern intelligent coaches like Harte and McGuinness have simply said 'let the man do the work' as it's less risky, and more to the point he can now do so due to his conditioning.
As Applesisapples noted, the AI club champions do expect the ball the do the work. Perhaps that reflects your comment about teams playing them not being fit enough to do a Donegal
Quote from: armaghniac on September 26, 2012, 10:55:42 AM
QuoteModern intelligent coaches like Harte and McGuinness have simply said 'let the man do the work' as it's less risky, and more to the point he can now do so due to his conditioning.
As Applesisapples noted, the AI club champions do expect the ball the do the work. Perhaps that reflects your comment about teams playing them not being fit enough to do a Donegal
Yeah, that's the point I'm making. I'd love to see it work at the top level of inter-county. Get McEntee in next year lads!
Quote from: armaghniac on September 26, 2012, 10:55:42 AM
QuoteModern intelligent coaches like Harte and McGuinness have simply said 'let the man do the work' as it's less risky, and more to the point he can now do so due to his conditioning.
As Applesisapples noted, the AI club champions do expect the ball the do the work. Perhaps that reflects your comment about teams playing them not being fit enough to do a Donegal
But they also have players (AK) who work all over the pitch, he picked up the ball in corner back against us in the Ulster final and managed to make it to midfield were the ball was placed kicked to Osin and we were done after that. He's not on his own in that Cross team.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2012, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 26, 2012, 10:55:42 AM
QuoteModern intelligent coaches like Harte and McGuinness have simply said 'let the man do the work' as it's less risky, and more to the point he can now do so due to his conditioning.
As Applesisapples noted, the AI club champions do expect the ball the do the work. Perhaps that reflects your comment about teams playing them not being fit enough to do a Donegal
But they also have players (AK) who work all over the pitch, he picked up the ball in corner back against us in the Ulster final and managed to make it to midfield were the ball was placed kicked to Osin and we were done after that. He's not on his own in that Cross team.
The conditions on any given day too will determine how Cross play. When it is very wet and mucky they will move the ball through the hand more but on a firmer sod it is kicked consistently.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 26, 2012, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2012, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 26, 2012, 10:55:42 AM
QuoteModern intelligent coaches like Harte and McGuinness have simply said 'let the man do the work' as it's less risky, and more to the point he can now do so due to his conditioning.
As Applesisapples noted, the AI club champions do expect the ball the do the work. Perhaps that reflects your comment about teams playing them not being fit enough to do a Donegal
But they also have players (AK) who work all over the pitch, he picked up the ball in corner back against us in the Ulster final and managed to make it to midfield were the ball was placed kicked to Osin and we were done after that. He's not on his own in that Cross team.
The conditions on any given day too will determine how Cross play. When it is very wet and mucky they will move the ball through the hand more but on a firmer sod it is kicked consistently.
Which is part of their success, ability to adapt. We play the same (have) way all the time. Hopefully the new manager has changed that a bit, very difficult to change in fairness when it has brought success.
Overall though Ulster football will improve, it's better than the rest and if Donegal maintain anything close to what they have done this year then they will, at worst, make a semi final. Jim I'm sure won't want to be known as a flash in the pan, Dublin seemed to have gone off the rails and never looked like retaining it this year
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 26, 2012, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2012, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 26, 2012, 10:55:42 AM
QuoteModern intelligent coaches like Harte and McGuinness have simply said 'let the man do the work' as it's less risky, and more to the point he can now do so due to his conditioning.
As Applesisapples noted, the AI club champions do expect the ball the do the work. Perhaps that reflects your comment about teams playing them not being fit enough to do a Donegal
But they also have players (AK) who work all over the pitch, he picked up the ball in corner back against us in the Ulster final and managed to make it to midfield were the ball was placed kicked to Osin and we were done after that. He's not on his own in that Cross team.
The conditions on any given day too will determine how Cross play. When it is very wet and mucky they will move the ball through the hand more but on a firmer sod it is kicked consistently.
Careful BC1. You could see yourelf expelled for giving away secrets like that!! ;)