Something that has been brewing in the back of my mind for the past few years was stoked again today after reading/listening online to fallout over 'partitionist abuse' during the Armagh-Laois game (though the events of the game itself are distintly linked to this post).
The 'partionist' abuse, or innocent goading if you like, has long been a feature of relations between North and South on the island, in the GAA family and beyond.
However the media coverage in the run up to and during the Irish presidential election, though not unexpected, seemed like a new low to me, in its level of politically anti northern undertone and the depths to which certain outlets would shamelessly drag up past atrocities to emotively further political agendas.
At the time it bothered me to hear privliged media figures drag up the horrors of the past, atrocities that they were relatively far removed from, and repeatedly evoke them so brazenly for debate they would pass as objective. Now even the likes of Willie Frazier wouldnt bother me in the slightest. The man obviously suffered personally and is consistently nuts in his views. But to see major Dublin based media figures go a little bit Frazieresque in their outrage on one day, and then respectfully sell the honourable history of the states founding the next day... I found this a bit harder to swallow.
Granted the extreme views from the likes of the Sindo are ridiculed on all sides but nevertheless is a brand of stringently anti republican and/or pro partionism now de riguer across the board of the major media outlets? Is it hypocritical? And is a nasty offshoot of it seeping out into wider society and the GAA?
Or maybe i'm way off the mark here. I just cant shake the feeling that this is the season of the 'nordie animals' as possibly portrayed by Joe Duffy and co ;D
BTW, I have no problem if folks are not republican/nationalist/unionist or whatever. I respect the sincerely held views of many Unionists.
And not for one second is this some kind of general criticism of the South, I hate the idea of starting any kind of infantile N v S crap. very specifically I find those down in Montrose house and in the major papers have a streak of individuals who pursue this sentiment.
It certainly seems to be more of a free state thing.
In fairness, in my many many times down south, I've only experienced it twice. Both times at Croke Park. Once by a Dub supporter and the other by a Kerry supporter.
Journalists, because of the lazy clowns they are, like to portray the extreme as normal.
Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.
If you're genuinely looking for an opinion from the "South" rather than having an ould whinge, here's one.
As discussed here during the Presidential election campaign, you're confusing anti-Sinn Féin feeling with anti-Northern feeling. There is indeed among a huge majority of citizens of the Republic a very profound loathing of Sinn Fein and the Provo agenda they promoted during the troubles and continue to justify today. Sinn Féin supporters continue to misinterpret this anti-Sinn Fein sentiment as anti-Northern.
As an aside, this misinterpretation seems to betray a conviction that Sinn Féin are somehow uniquely representative of the people of the Northern state or at least present the only valid or acceptable version of Northern nationalism.
However, two simple examples, one related to the Presidential campaign you cite, will serve to illustrate how wrong-headed the perception of anti-Northern sentiment is.
1. When Seanus Heaney was being sounded out as a potential candidate, the universal belief was that if he ran, it would be pointless to run a candidate against him, so popular would his candidacy be.
2. John Hume recently won a mass-participation poll run by the Late late Show to select the greatest ever Irishman.
If your point is about ignorant terrace banter between football supporters I'd only say it's foolish to take heed of ill-informed cat-calling among the uneducated, who apply a schoolboy level of discrimination in seeking out distinguishing factors to mock in their opponents. I'd be surprised if you could declare a winner in the loutishness stakes between those shouting "go back to Britain" on the one hand and "Free State bastards" on the other.
I forgot to mention Van Morrison and George Best.
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 03:14:18 PM
Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.
Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.
Dromid got a load of abuse for running to the whore themselves to the media when they lost and couldn't accept it. To me it seems Armagh are doing the same. If McKeever had called a Laois man a "free-state ****" and got took up for it retrospectively and labelled a racist their would be uproar on here for heavy-handiness. And rightly so.
Do you really think that the North is the only ones to take abuse? When Cork and Kerry play do you think they go around saying "Hi Sean, pleased to see you, great day for a game". What next? Will Roscommon take up everyone who calls them a sheep-shagger for abuse? Will Donal-og go around looking for retrospective banning from every county who players or fans called him a "homo". Clinton Hennessy could do the same considering the abuse he takes because his brother is gay. What about Jason Sherlock or the O'Halpins, you think they were never called "black" or "chinks" or told to "f**k off back to China"?
On this board Nally Stand regularly mocks the Mexicans by addressing them in German or telling them they are controlled by Germany. Sure why don't we just ban him from it for racist remarks, sure its no different than calling a Northerner a Bristish bastard.
This is a storm in a tea-cup. There has been alot worse abuse threw out on a GAA field than this. I can think of one alleged example last year involving a Donegal player and a young Tyrone player that, if it were true, would have completely crossed the lines of gamesmanship and let a very sour taste for any person who would have heard it. Likewise I was talking to a few Cavan lads last night and they were saying that McMenamin, McGuigan and Gormley were known to sledge players to try and get a physcological edge. They didn't advocate any bans or call them cheats or racists, they just said that this kind of thing was now rife in the GAA and no-one can truly stand and back say its a disgrace without being hypocritical.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
Do you live in Dublin or the South?
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
I've lived here all my life and I didn't notice this. Again, I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
And Barry McGuigan. :P
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:26:08 PM
2. John Hume recently won a mass-participation poll run by the Late late Show to select the greatest ever Irishman.
Quite an acheivement for a foreigner.
The whole Armagh/Queen's County thing is an embarassment, just fellas slagging each other on a football field and in my view, I'd rather be called a Brit by someone unsure of what county (never mind country) he is from than have him go on about my Ma or sister.
I've spent a fair time in the South with work and have come across anti-Northern sentiment only twice/three times and if that represents the wider population then it's very much a small minority who think/practice it. The %age in the media may be higher right enough.
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
Do you live in Dublin or the South?
Laois.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
I'd be very, very surprised, if it were a 'common' view that anyone from the north who considers themselves Irish is not as Irish as the rest of us. I have no anecdotal or quantative evidence that that would ever be the case in any significant numbers.
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
I've lived here all my life and I didn't notice this. Again, I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
And Barry McGuigan. :P
Look Hardy, I let you away with Van Morrison and George Best, but I'll see your Barry McGuigan and raise you Eamonn Holmes (an achievement in itself)
Denis Faul, Seán Quinn, every Down team to come out of Uslter, Cardinals Daly and Ó Fiaich, Peter Canavan ("God", no less, to the media, South as well as North - sure they even turned on us when he sprained his ankle, as if it was our fault).
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
I've lived here all my life and I didn't notice this. Again, I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
And Barry McGuigan. :P
Oh yes there was exceptions but the Connor Cruise O'Brien fellow led the campaign which many followed. I don't know the exact quote but something along the lines of keeping the foot firmly placed on Nationalists throats or something similar was mentioned.
Yes it was an anti Republican campaign but it went further in my opinion.
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:53:00 PM
Denis Faul, Seán Quinn, every Down team to come out of Uslter, Cardinals Daly and Ó Fiaich, Peter Canavan ("God", no less, to the media, South as well as North - sure they even turned on us when he sprained his ankle, as if it was our fault).
Cue another 50 pages...
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2012, 03:51:09 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
I'd be very, very surprised, if it were a 'common' view that anyone from the north who considers themselves Irish is not as Irish as the rest of us. I have no anecdotal or quantative evidence that that would ever be the case in any significant numbers.
Sorry not the common view but many hold it, even amongst GAA people.
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 03:14:18 PM
Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.
Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.
Dromid got a load of abuse for running to the whore themselves to the media when they lost and couldn't accept it. To me it seems Armagh are doing the same. If McKeever had called a Laois man a "free-state ****" and got took up for it retrospectively and labelled a racist their would be uproar on here for heavy-handiness. And rightly so.
Do you really think that the North is the only ones to take abuse? When Cork and Kerry play do you think they go around saying "Hi Sean, pleased to see you, great day for a game". What next? Will Roscommon take up everyone who calls them a sheep-shagger for abuse? Will Donal-og go around looking for retrospective banning from every county who players or fans called him a "homo". Clinton Hennessy could do the same considering the abuse he takes because his brother is gay. What about Jason Sherlock or the O'Halpins, you think they were never called "black" or "chinks" or told to "f**k off back to China"?
On this board Nally Stand regularly mocks the Mexicans by addressing them in German or telling them they are controlled by Germany. Sure why don't we just ban him from it for racist remarks, sure its no different than calling a Northerner a Bristish b**tard.
This is a storm in a tea-cup. There has been alot worse abuse threw out on a GAA field than this. I can think of one alleged example last year involving a Donegal player and a young Tyrone player that, if it were true, would have completely crossed the lines of gamesmanship and let a very sour taste for any person who would have heard it. Likewise I was talking to a few Cavan lads last night and they were saying that McMenamin, McGuigan and Gormley were known to sledge players to try and get a physcological edge. They didn't advocate any bans or call them cheats or racists, they just said that this kind of thing was now rife in the GAA and no-one can truly stand and back say its a disgrace without being hypocritical.
Before I respond, I want to make sure you know what I'm saying in this post.
What do you think I've said?
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:26:08 PM
If you're genuinely looking for an opinion from the "South" rather than having an ould whinge, here's one.
As discussed here during the Presidential election campaign, you're confusing anti-Sinn Féin feeling with anti-Northern feeling. There is indeed among a huge majority of citizens of the Republic a very profound loathing of Sinn Fein and the Provo agenda they promoted during the troubles and continue to justify today. Sinn Féin supporters continue to misinterpret this anti-Sinn Fein sentiment as anti-Northern.
As an aside, this misinterpretation seems to betray a conviction that Sinn Féin are somehow uniquely representative of the people of the Northern state or at least present the only valid or acceptable version of Northern nationalism.
However, two simple examples, one related to the Presidential campaign you cite, will serve to illustrate how wrong-headed the perception of anti-Northern sentiment is.
1. When Seanus Heaney was being sounded out as a potential candidate, the universal belief was that if he ran, it would be pointless to run a candidate against him, so popular would his candidacy be.
2. John Hume recently won a mass-participation poll run by the Late late Show to select the greatest ever Irishman.
If your point is about ignorant terrace banter between football supporters I'd only say it's foolish to take heed of ill-informed cat-calling among the uneducated, who apply a schoolboy level of discrimination in seeking out distinguishing factors to mock in their opponents. I'd be surprised if you could declare a winner in the loutishness stakes between those shouting "go back to Britain" on the one hand and "Free State b**tards" on the other.
not whinging old boy just genuinely interested in opinions.
Am I wrong in thinking partionist abuse is on the rise? I am interested in the source of the rise if it is.
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.
I doubt very much if Sheehan & McKeever were discussing the ins and outs of SF policies when Sheehan began singing GSTQ into McKeever's ear and calling him a "British bastard". I doubt very much if the dubs leaving Croke Park after the Tyrone semi-final last year were thinking about SF when they began singing at a group of Tyrone fans walking infront of them (myself included) that they should "F**k off back to England". I recall Michael Martin during the General Election campaign lambasting Martin McGuinness for "coming down here to the republic". That was not an attack on any SF policy, but rather a deep seeded partitionist mindset which he couldn't keep under wraps. I also recall during the same campaign, when BBC Hearts & Minds ran a vox-pop of students in Dublin on the topic of McGuinness' candidature, and the most frequent responses were summed up nicely by a girl at the end who remarked "personally, I think he should stay up north, he shouldn't come down here". I also recall McGuinness being challenged by a woman in the audience during a "Frontline" debate, who lambasted him for coming "down here". When McGuinness responded ""I come from Derry and Derry is as Irish as Cork," the woman responded "no it isn't". Again, that's hardly a discussion of SF policy. It is partitionism. I also recall reading a columnist in the indo stating "I hold my hand up and admit that I'm one of those "partitionist in my thinking" types that Martin McGuinness so dislikes. The 1998 referendum on the Good Friday Agreement dealing with the removal of the Republic's territorial claim to the North was no wrench to me. I reckon it's a murky little middle-class secret kept by myself and many others". I also recall a Hogan Cup game a few years ago (as I mentioned on another thread), where several lads on the Carlow team AND a linesman were dishing out the "brit b******s" line to Omagh players. Again, hardly a discussion of SF politics. Even the little things.... Kenny Archer noted in the paper today, that in the All-Ireland club finals programme, there were twelve experts interviewed for their opinions...none of them were from the north despite two six county teams being involved on the day (and all twelve got their predictions wrong!). I also recall a few years back overhearing a conversation in a Monaghan hotel between two Dublin women, and one telling the other how her son was going to Belfast and that she was nervous for him because it was "his first time in a foreign city by himself". Again, not a mention from her about SF.
Also come to think of it I didn't mention SF once in my OP.
Should I flat out clarify that I don't support SF? Seems to lend weight to having a valid interpretation on here :)
To be fair there is no getting away from it. The majority of GAA people in the North would probably vote Sinn Fein, not all of them by a long shot of course WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD THING HARDY ;)
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 03:14:18 PM
Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.
Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.
Ziggys correct. I remember well the Free State media hysteria because two northern teams made the final and there were indeed calls for segregation. The press archives aren't available online for free but a quick Google turned up this passing reference in an archive copy of the Donegal Times.
http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html (http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html)
"Move aside Armagh and Tyrone for the moment - we have our enactment here in Donegal in the shape of the U-14 championship decider between neighbours Naohm Naille and Four Masters. Scheduled for Mc Cumhaill Park on the week-end of September 13th/14th (check fixture list), this contest has all the ingredients of being a closely contested affair. There will be no lavish press nights - no mention of segregating rival fans - no stress levels associated with demand for tickets and hopefully no planned garda excort for match officials, and yet the game takes on even more importance than any All-Ireland for those involved. "
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?
Ahh, ffs Hardy, don't hate me, I am not a hand wringing whinge?
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 03:14:18 PM
Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.
Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.
Ziggys correct. I remember well the Free State media hysteria because two northern teams made the final and there were indeed calls for segregation. The press archives aren't available online for free but a quick Google turned up this passing reference in an archive copy of the Donegal Times.
http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html (http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html)
"Move aside Armagh and Tyrone for the moment - we have our enactment here in Donegal in the shape of the U-14 championship decider between neighbours Naohm Naille and Four Masters. Scheduled for Mc Cumhaill Park on the week-end of September 13th/14th (check fixture list), this contest has all the ingredients of being a closely contested affair. There will be no lavish press nights - no mention of segregating rival fans - no stress levels associated with demand for tickets and hopefully no planned garda excort for match officials, and yet the game takes on even more importance than any All-Ireland for those involved. "
That's your media hysteria? A throw-away comment in the Donegal Times discussing the 2003 U-14 final?
Sure Jaysus you've just pointed out that the entire anti-northern sentiment is originating from the diehard followers of the Donegal U-14 championship. I think we've found the problems lads.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:50:48 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
Do you live in Dublin or the South?
Laois.
And you encounter alot of Anti-Northern sentiment in Laois? I live in Dublin and have seen or heard very little of it.
As I have stated elswhere I have played and indeed refereed in my day in any number of border counties in the south. I have never encountered any racist or partitionist abuse from opponents or teams. There is an underbelly in the south who do regard the north as foreign, there reasoning ranges from a benign ignorance to just sheer indifference. I have a few southern friends who think this way. They don't mean any harm or offence its just not important to them. I was brought up in a household that revered the men of 1916, I would have been aware of my fathers republican politics, although never spoken. No one told me I was Irish, although plenty tried to make me British, I just knew it. It was through music, culture, sport and history that I knew it. Many people in the south do accept our Irishness, look at the way in which Mary McAleese is accepted as being one of the great Irish Presidents. Accepting us as Irish though doesn't necessaryily lead to accepting the North as a part of the Republic. And before we give off there are many who consider themselves Irish in the North quite happy to live in the UK. Two things though annoy me as being hypocritical. Firstly how people in the South who laud the men of 1916/20 but on the other deplore what the Provos did...one mans freedom fighter etc... And the hypocracy of the Southern Press who happily embrace McIlroy, Best, Morrison, Coulter,Moore, Heaney, Canavan,Brady etc as great Irishmen when it suits and then trot out anti northern tripe on the other. But you know what calling someone a British/Irish/Polish/Scottish/English Bastard, take your choice is racist.
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 04:09:01 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 03:14:18 PM
Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.
Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.
Dromid got a load of abuse for running to the whore themselves to the media when they lost and couldn't accept it. To me it seems Armagh are doing the same. If McKeever had called a Laois man a "free-state ****" and got took up for it retrospectively and labelled a racist their would be uproar on here for heavy-handiness. And rightly so.
Do you really think that the North is the only ones to take abuse? When Cork and Kerry play do you think they go around saying "Hi Sean, pleased to see you, great day for a game". What next? Will Roscommon take up everyone who calls them a sheep-shagger for abuse? Will Donal-og go around looking for retrospective banning from every county who players or fans called him a "homo". Clinton Hennessy could do the same considering the abuse he takes because his brother is gay. What about Jason Sherlock or the O'Halpins, you think they were never called "black" or "chinks" or told to "f**k off back to China"?
On this board Nally Stand regularly mocks the Mexicans by addressing them in German or telling them they are controlled by Germany. Sure why don't we just ban him from it for racist remarks, sure its no different than calling a Northerner a Bristish b**tard.
This is a storm in a tea-cup. There has been alot worse abuse threw out on a GAA field than this. I can think of one alleged example last year involving a Donegal player and a young Tyrone player that, if it were true, would have completely crossed the lines of gamesmanship and let a very sour taste for any person who would have heard it. Likewise I was talking to a few Cavan lads last night and they were saying that McMenamin, McGuigan and Gormley were known to sledge players to try and get a physcological edge. They didn't advocate any bans or call them cheats or racists, they just said that this kind of thing was now rife in the GAA and no-one can truly stand and back say its a disgrace without being hypocritical.
Before I respond, I want to make sure you know what I'm saying in this post.
What do you think I've said?
That before the '03 final the media clearly and repeatedly said that there would be a "bloodbath on the pitch" and we would "tear lumps out of each other" in the stands?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?
Ahh, ffs Hardy, don't hate me, I am not a hand wringing whinge?
Ah I should have clarified that. We hate you all, except John Hume, Seamus, Georgie, Van, Canavan, Barry ... and Brokencrossbar, Oisín, Joe ...
As a matter of fact everyone should consider this thread open for application to be added to the exception list. Olly is hereby elected by acclamation. Some others need not apply. You know who you are.
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:53:00 PM
Denis Faul, Seán Quinn, every Down team to come out of Uslter, Cardinals Daly and Ó Fiaich, Peter Canavan ("God", no less, to the media, South as well as North - sure they even turned on us when he sprained his ankle, as if it was our fault).
Didnt take yous long to turn on him!!
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:50:48 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
Do you live in Dublin or the South?
Laois.
And you encounter alot of Anti-Northern sentiment in Laois? I live in Dublin and have seen or heard very little of it.
No not much, it doesn't come up in conversation that often but I have heard it enough to know it exists and is not un-common.
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?
Ahh, ffs Hardy, don't hate me, I am not a hand wringing whinge?
Ah I should have clarified that. We hate you all, except John Hume, Seamus, Georgie, Van, Canavan, Barry ... and Brokencrossbar, Oisín, Joe ...
As a matter of fact everyone should consider this thread open for application to be added to the exception list. Olly is hereby elected by acclamation. Some others need not apply. You know who you are.
That would be a great idea, Nordies could have their own hate list and Mexicans can have theirs!!!!
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?
Ahh, ffs Hardy, don't hate me, I am not a hand wringing whinge?
Ah I should have clarified that. We hate you all, except John Hume, Seamus, Georgie, Van, Canavan, Barry ... and Brokencrossbar, Oisín, Joe ...
As a matter of fact everyone should consider this thread open for application to be added to the exception list. Olly is hereby elected by acclamation. Some others need not apply. You know who you are.
Barry is from fcukin Monaghan you eejit. :)
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?
Ahh, ffs Hardy, don't hate me, I am not a hand wringing whinge?
Ah I should have clarified that. We hate you all, except John Hume, Seamus, Georgie, Van, Canavan, Barry ... and Brokencrossbar, Oisín, Joe ...
As a matter of fact everyone should consider this thread open for application to be added to the exception list. Olly is hereby elected by acclamation. Some others need not apply. You know who you are.
Barry is from fcukin Monaghan you eejit. :)
Well then it's Barry who is confused and not Hardy.
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 05:15:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:50:48 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
It's not just an anti Sinn Féin feeling though. It's a feeling that they are not properly Irish. You'd be surprised at how common this view is held.
It comes from the long standing media campaign that vilified all Northern Nationalists not just those involved with SF or the IRA. People were given a one sided view for 40 years by the Southern media, it had to have an effect.
Do you live in Dublin or the South?
Laois.
And you encounter alot of Anti-Northern sentiment in Laois? I live in Dublin and have seen or heard very little of it.
No not much, it doesn't come up in conversation that often but I have heard it enough to know it exists and is not un-common.
Well could you not same the same about the North the as regards it's anti-Southern sentiment? I mean someone from the South living in the North is bound to encounter a degree of it, some of them would encounter quite alot of it if they lived in the wrong area.
I'm not saying there is no anti-northern setiment in the republic, but the trouble is so many Northerns think that a United Ireland means the Southern population becomes just like us instead if us becoming more like them.
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 05:20:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?
Ahh, ffs Hardy, don't hate me, I am not a hand wringing whinge?
Ah I should have clarified that. We hate you all, except John Hume, Seamus, Georgie, Van, Canavan, Barry ... and Brokencrossbar, Oisín, Joe ...
As a matter of fact everyone should consider this thread open for application to be added to the exception list. Olly is hereby elected by acclamation. Some others need not apply. You know who you are.
Barry is from fcukin Monaghan you eejit. :)
Well then it's Barry who is confused and not Hardy.
Nah Barry always say's hes from Clones, sure he hasn't lost the accent.
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.
I doubt very much if Sheehan & McKeever were discussing the ins and outs of SF policies when Sheehan began singing GSTQ into McKeever's ear and calling him a "British b**tard". I doubt very much if the dubs leaving Croke Park after the Tyrone semi-final last year were thinking about SF when they began singing at a group of Tyrone fans walking infront of them (myself included) that they should "F**k off back to England". I recall Michael Martin during the General Election campaign lambasting Martin McGuinness for "coming down here to the republic". That was not an attack on any SF policy, but rather a deep seeded partitionist mindset which he couldn't keep under wraps. I also recall during the same campaign, when BBC Hearts & Minds ran a vox-pop of students in Dublin on the topic of McGuinness' candidature, and the most frequent responses were summed up nicely by a girl at the end who remarked "personally, I think he should stay up north, he shouldn't come down here". I also recall McGuinness being challenged by a woman in the audience during a "Frontline" debate, who lambasted him for coming "down here". When McGuinness responded ""I come from Derry and Derry is as Irish as Cork," the woman responded "no it isn't". Again, that's hardly a discussion of SF policy. It is partitionism. I also recall reading a columnist in the indo stating "I hold my hand up and admit that I'm one of those "partitionist in my thinking" types that Martin McGuinness so dislikes. The 1998 referendum on the Good Friday Agreement dealing with the removal of the Republic's territorial claim to the North was no wrench to me. I reckon it's a murky little middle-class secret kept by myself and many others". I also recall a Hogan Cup game a few years ago (as I mentioned on another thread), where several lads on the Carlow team AND a linesman were dishing out the "brit b******s" line to Omagh players. Again, hardly a discussion of SF politics. Even the little things.... Kenny Archer noted in the paper today, that in the All-Ireland club finals programme, there were twelve experts interviewed for their opinions...none of them were from the north despite two six county teams being involved on the day (and all twelve got their predictions wrong!). I also recall a few years back overhearing a conversation in a Monaghan hotel between two Dublin women, and one telling the other how her son was going to Belfast and that she was nervous for him because it was "his first time in a foreign city by himself". Again, not a mention from her about SF.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
Hardy, I only referred to some instances being from footballing circles. And even so, what is the difference? Is partitionism from football supporters/linesmen not allowed to count? Are they not real people? And as for the BBC Hearts & Minds vox-pop contributors/indo columnist/audience member in frontline etc etc....is that all anecdodal, even though the evidence of their remarks was committed to film and print for the world to see? Attempting to portray blatant partitionism as nothing more than an expression of dislike towards SF is totally disingenuous. It has fcuk all squared to do with political parties. It is naked partitionism.
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 05:06:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 03:14:18 PM
Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.
Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.
Ziggys correct. I remember well the Free State media hysteria because two northern teams made the final and there were indeed calls for segregation. The press archives aren't available online for free but a quick Google turned up this passing reference in an archive copy of the Donegal Times.
http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html (http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html)
"Move aside Armagh and Tyrone for the moment - we have our enactment here in Donegal in the shape of the U-14 championship decider between neighbours Naohm Naille and Four Masters. Scheduled for Mc Cumhaill Park on the week-end of September 13th/14th (check fixture list), this contest has all the ingredients of being a closely contested affair. There will be no lavish press nights - no mention of segregating rival fans - no stress levels associated with demand for tickets and hopefully no planned garda excort for match officials, and yet the game takes on even more importance than any All-Ireland for those involved. "
That's your media hysteria? A throw-away comment in the Donegal Times discussing the 2003 U-14 final?
Sure Jaysus you've just pointed out that the entire anti-northern sentiment is originating from the diehard followers of the Donegal U-14 championship. I think we've found the problems lads.
It was 8 years ago and the media didn't really archive much back then online.
Its a terrible victim complex that people from the six counties have. Why is though? why are you attention whores all the time? your worst then PETA.
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:46:53 PM
Well could you not same the same about the North the as regards it's anti-Southern sentiment? I mean someone from the South living in the North is bound to encounter a degree of it, some of them would encounter quite alot of it if they lived in the wrong area.
I'm not saying there is no anti-northern setiment in the republic, but the trouble is so many Northerns think that a United Ireland means the Southern population becomes just like us instead if us becoming more like them.
I'm sure there's anti-Southern sentiment in the North. Some areas for obvious reasons but the free stater comments come from a sense of betrayal which if we're honest isn't unjustified.
If there was a vote in the South to end partition it would be a lot closer than people expect.
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:21:23 PM
Its a terrible victim complex that people from the six counties have. Why is though? why are you attention whores all the time? your worst then PETA.
Occupied by Britain then betrayed & forgotten about about by our own, I suppose
try this out. bobby sands is the greatest irishman to live and die in my short life
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:21:23 PM
Its a terrible victim complex that people from the six counties have. Why is though? why are you attention whores all the time? your worst then PETA.
Occupied by Britain then betrayed & forgotten about about by our own, I suppose
By our own? how do you mean?
Here is my take on it. People from the six counties are like women with PMT. Your walking on egg shells around for fear of saying something that might upset them. They are forever looking for the opportunity to take offence. Grow up a bit, in a few generations that victim complex might be gone...................hopefully.
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:45:25 PM
Here is my take on it. People from the six counties are like women with PMT. Your walking on egg shells around for fear of saying something that might upset them. They are forever looking for the opportunity to take offence. Grow up a bit, in a few generations that victim complex might be gone...................hopefully.
I'll say nothing about the complex rampant in the 26 ;)
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:45:25 PM
Here is my take on it. People from the six counties are like women with PMT. Your walking on egg shells around for fear of saying something that might upset them. They are forever looking for the opportunity to take offence. Grow up a bit, in a few generations that victim complex might be gone...................hopefully.
I'll say nothing about the complex rampant in the 26 ;)
Judging by yours and Ulicks postings on the Presidential thread your about as partitionist as they come. So my question is why do you care?
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19419.msg1035597#msg1035597
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:45:25 PM
Here is my take on it. People from the six counties are like women with PMT. Your walking on egg shells around for fear of saying something that might upset them. They are forever looking for the opportunity to take offence. Grow up a bit, in a few generations that victim complex might be gone...................hopefully.
I'll say nothing about the complex rampant in the 26 ;)
Judging by yours and Ulicks postings on the Presidential thread your about as partitionist as they come. So my question is why do you care?
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19419.msg1035597#msg1035597
Again, I'll say nothing...(other than to inform you that I am not Ulick).
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 07:00:14 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:45:25 PM
Here is my take on it. People from the six counties are like women with PMT. Your walking on egg shells around for fear of saying something that might upset them. They are forever looking for the opportunity to take offence. Grow up a bit, in a few generations that victim complex might be gone...................hopefully.
I'll say nothing about the complex rampant in the 26 ;)
Judging by yours and Ulicks postings on the Presidential thread your about as partitionist as they come. So my question is why do you care?
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19419.msg1035597#msg1035597
Again, I'll say nothing...(other than to inform you that I am not Ulick).
I am just trying to bring some peace to you. You cant live life angry.
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 07:00:14 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:45:25 PM
Here is my take on it. People from the six counties are like women with PMT. Your walking on egg shells around for fear of saying something that might upset them. They are forever looking for the opportunity to take offence. Grow up a bit, in a few generations that victim complex might be gone...................hopefully.
I'll say nothing about the complex rampant in the 26 ;)
Judging by yours and Ulicks postings on the Presidential thread your about as partitionist as they come. So my question is why do you care?
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19419.msg1035597#msg1035597
Again, I'll say nothing...(other than to inform you that I am not Ulick).
I am just trying to bring some peace to you. You cant live life angry.
You talking to me or ulick?
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 07:00:14 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 06:45:25 PM
Here is my take on it. People from the six counties are like women with PMT. Your walking on egg shells around for fear of saying something that might upset them. They are forever looking for the opportunity to take offence. Grow up a bit, in a few generations that victim complex might be gone...................hopefully.
I'll say nothing about the complex rampant in the 26 ;)
Judging by yours and Ulicks postings on the Presidential thread your about as partitionist as they come. So my question is why do you care?
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=19419.msg1035597#msg1035597
Again, I'll say nothing...(other than to inform you that I am not Ulick).
I am just trying to bring some peace to you. You cant live life angry.
Benny where in any of my posts can you say that I'm in any way "upset" by anything the Free State media says or does or anyone else from the 26 counties? I'm assuming that's what you mean by "walking on eggshells". Fire away with anything you want to say big lad, I promise not to get upset.
QuoteBy our own? how do you mean?
That would be the likes of you. We actually think we have something in common with you, oddly enough.
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 05:06:37 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on March 21, 2012, 03:14:18 PM
Sure you only have to look back to the lead up to the 2003 All-Ireland Final. Because it was two Ulster teams in the final, the southern media were warning that it was going to be a blood bath in Croke Park, with the two teams tearing lumps out of each other during the game and the supporters battering each other in the stands.
Care to prove that with any links? Or are you too adding extreme hyperbole to make a point? Men in glass houses Ziggy.
Ziggys correct. I remember well the Free State media hysteria because two northern teams made the final and there were indeed calls for segregation. The press archives aren't available online for free but a quick Google turned up this passing reference in an archive copy of the Donegal Times.
http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html (http://www.donegaltimes.com/2003/09_1/sport.html)
"Move aside Armagh and Tyrone for the moment - we have our enactment here in Donegal in the shape of the U-14 championship decider between neighbours Naohm Naille and Four Masters. Scheduled for Mc Cumhaill Park on the week-end of September 13th/14th (check fixture list), this contest has all the ingredients of being a closely contested affair. There will be no lavish press nights - no mention of segregating rival fans - no stress levels associated with demand for tickets and hopefully no planned garda excort for match officials, and yet the game takes on even more importance than any All-Ireland for those involved. "
That's your media hysteria? A throw-away comment in the Donegal Times discussing the 2003 U-14 final?
Sure Jaysus you've just pointed out that the entire anti-northern sentiment is originating from the diehard followers of the Donegal U-14 championship. I think we've found the problems lads.
trileacman, if I had the time of inclination I'm sure I could dig up lots of references to the feeding frenzy around the two northern teams in the '03 final. There was quite a bit of discussion about it on this Board as well but to be honest I couldn't give a flying one as it was a day to forget.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 05:20:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 21, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: Ulick on March 21, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
Quote from: Hardy on March 21, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
I refer you to John Hume and Seamus Heaney.
I'll raise you an Austin Currie. I fail to see how he could be confused with a Sinn Feiner yet was still on the receiving end of all the abuse mentioned here both as a TD and when he ran for Presidency.
I think most of the abuse Austin Currie got was for being a joke candidate.
Nally Stand - a series of anecdotes like "a yob shouted ..." or "some Dublin supporters yelled ..." is hardly a sociological thesis. They're football supporters, FFS. And don't expect anyone here to defend Micheál Martin.
However, lads, far be it from me to deprive you of your self pity. If it makes you feel better, we hate you all. Why do you care if you hate us so much?
Ahh, ffs Hardy, don't hate me, I am not a hand wringing whinge?
Ah I should have clarified that. We hate you all, except John Hume, Seamus, Georgie, Van, Canavan, Barry ... and Brokencrossbar, Oisín, Joe ...
As a matter of fact everyone should consider this thread open for application to be added to the exception list. Olly is hereby elected by acclamation. Some others need not apply. You know who you are.
Barry is from fcukin Monaghan you eejit. :)
Well then it's Barry who is confused and not Hardy.
Nah Barry always say's hes from Clones, sure he hasn't lost the accent.
That was way over your head, wasnt it?? :)
In fairness to him he lived just over the border in fermanagh for long periods, incl when he won the world title if I'm not mistaken
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:46:53 PM
Well could you not same the same about the North the as regards it's anti-Southern sentiment? I mean someone from the South living in the North is bound to encounter a degree of it, some of them would encounter quite alot of it if they lived in the wrong area.
I'm not saying there is no anti-northern setiment in the republic, but the trouble is so many Northerns think that a United Ireland means the Southern population becomes just like us instead if us becoming more like them.
I'm sure there's anti-Southern sentiment in the North. Some areas for obvious reasons but the free stater comments come from a sense of betrayal which if we're honest isn't unjustified.
If there was a vote in the South to end partition it would be a lot closer than people expect.
?? What way?
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 07:50:36 PM
Quote from: Dont Matter on March 21, 2012, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 21, 2012, 03:46:53 PM
Well could you not same the same about the North the as regards it's anti-Southern sentiment? I mean someone from the South living in the North is bound to encounter a degree of it, some of them would encounter quite alot of it if they lived in the wrong area.
I'm not saying there is no anti-northern setiment in the republic, but the trouble is so many Northerns think that a United Ireland means the Southern population becomes just like us instead if us becoming more like them.
I'm sure there's anti-Southern sentiment in the North. Some areas for obvious reasons but the free stater comments come from a sense of betrayal which if we're honest isn't unjustified.
If there was a vote in the South to end partition it would be a lot closer than people expect.
?? What way?
I would vote no.
And I'd say you'd not be alone, even on this board, which, being connected with an all-ireland organsiation which promotes irish unity, would be skewed towards unification. So we can only imagine what the rest of the country would be like.
When the vote comes it'll be grand as long as its timed ok though, Liam Neeson can play Gerry Adams in 'The Troubles' (by Hollywood) and we'll romp home
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 08:04:12 PM
And I'd say you'd not be alone, even on this board, which, being connected with an all-ireland organsiation which promotes irish unity, would be skewed towards unification. So we can only imagine what the rest of the country would be like.
When the vote comes it'll be grand as long as its timed ok though, Liam Neeson can play Gerry Adams in 'The Troubles' (by Hollywood) and we'll romp home
The GAA is a sporting organisation. It is NOT political.
The Gaelic Athletic Association / Cumann Lúthchleas Gael is a 32 county sporting and cultural organisation....
http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/
Hmmmm...
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.
Some people are 'partitionist', no doubt. But the problem in the Presidential campaign was most definitely with McGuinness as a person, his background and his party. And yes, that might have manifested itself in some partitionist comments. But don't recall any negative focus on Dana because she was from the North. And as has been mentioned, two other Derry men would have been immensely popular candidates.
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2012, 08:21:02 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.
Some people are 'partitionist', no doubt. But the problem in the Presidential campaign was most definitely with McGuinness as a person, his background and his party. And yes, that might have manifested itself in some partitionist comments. But don't recall any negative focus on Dana because she was from the North. And as has been mentioned, two other Derry men would have been immensely popular candidates.
Thats not to say it still wouldnt have been a negative for them.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
The Gaelic Athletic Association / Cumann Lúthchleas Gael is a 32 county sporting and cultural organisation....
http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/
Hmmmm...
But it does not promote the political aim of Irish unity
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 08:29:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2012, 08:21:02 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.
Some people are 'partitionist', no doubt. But the problem in the Presidential campaign was most definitely with McGuinness as a person, his background and his party. And yes, that might have manifested itself in some partitionist comments. But don't recall any negative focus on Dana because she was from the North. And as has been mentioned, two other Derry men would have been immensely popular candidates.
Thats not to say it still wouldnt have been a negative for them.
I have no reason to believe it would have.
Benny would you like to hazard a guess what part of the country the original Sweeney family hails from?
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2012, 08:31:39 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 08:29:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2012, 08:21:02 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.
Some people are 'partitionist', no doubt. But the problem in the Presidential campaign was most definitely with McGuinness as a person, his background and his party. And yes, that might have manifested itself in some partitionist comments. But don't recall any negative focus on Dana because she was from the North. And as has been mentioned, two other Derry men would have been immensely popular candidates.
Thats not to say it still wouldnt have been a negative for them.
I have no reason to believe it would have.
Isn't accepting that some people are partitionist (I assume you didn't mean just in the north) a reason to believe that it would have been a negative?
Quote from: muppet on March 21, 2012, 08:35:15 PM
Benny would you like to hazard a guess what part of the country the original Sweeney family hails from?
Can you not go troll someone else? I will have to report you to the moderators if you dont stop.
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 21, 2012, 08:47:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 21, 2012, 08:35:15 PM
Benny would you like to hazard a guess what part of the country the original Sweeney family hails from?
Can you not go troll someone else? I will have to report you to the moderators if you dont stop.
Is trolling yourself called Trollerbation?
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2012, 08:21:02 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.
Some people are 'partitionist', no doubt. But the problem in the Presidential campaign was most definitely with McGuinness as a person, his background and his party. And yes, that might have manifested itself in some partitionist comments. But don't recall any negative focus on Dana because she was from the North. And as has been mentioned, two other Derry men would have been immensely popular candidates.
Dana was not a credible candidate therefor no comments were needed. There were
repeated partitionist comments from all directions throughout the campaign. It cannot be disguised as anything else or be excused as being motivated by anything other than regarding the six counties as 'different' and 'less Irish'.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 09:18:31 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
The Gaelic Athletic Association / Cumann Lúthchleas Gael is a 32 county sporting and cultural organisation....
http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/ (http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/)
Hmmmm...
So is rugby and cricket along with a few others, leaving out the cultural bit.
Oh right. What if we leave out all but the 'organisation' bit? Does that make it the same as all other organisations?
I detest partitionism and I think it has increased a bit in recent years, but only in parts of the country and among certain classes. By that I mean the types of people who admire the writings of the likes of Eoghan Harris, Kevin Myers and co. I also think it is to a large extent an urban or Dublin thing rather than being prevalent in rural areas. The All Ireland wins of Down, Derry, Armagh and Tyrone were celebrated all over the country and certainly in my neck of the woods. The Laois footballer who sparked this present controversy is no credit to either his native or adopted counties.
I see I fucked up the spelling in thread title :-[- carry on! ;D
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 09:35:25 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 21, 2012, 09:18:31 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
The Gaelic Athletic Association / Cumann Lúthchleas Gael is a 32 county sporting and cultural organisation....
http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/ (http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/)
Hmmmm...
So is rugby and cricket along with a few others, leaving out the cultural bit.
Oh right. What if we leave out all but the 'organisation' bit? Does that make it the same as all other organisations?
The last time I checked, rugby and cricket don't really do culture, just sport. The GAA, believe it or not, is not the only 32-county organisation around.
I dont know what you're on about.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 08:47:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2012, 08:31:39 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 21, 2012, 08:29:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2012, 08:21:02 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 21, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Ahh Hardy...the old chestnut of "we're not partitionist, you just think we are because we don't like SF"....Nonsense.
Some people are 'partitionist', no doubt. But the problem in the Presidential campaign was most definitely with McGuinness as a person, his background and his party. And yes, that might have manifested itself in some partitionist comments. But don't recall any negative focus on Dana because she was from the North. And as has been mentioned, two other Derry men would have been immensely popular candidates.
Thats not to say it still wouldnt have been a negative for them.
I have no reason to believe it would have.
Isn't accepting that some people are partitionist (I assume you didn't mean just in the north) a reason to believe that it would have been a negative?
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as
'West Brits'.
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
I would have to agree with you haranguerer. Even by Breheny's standards this is a completely unbelieveable statement. It just does not make any sense. What is trying to prove.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
I know for sure that there were very many players on 6-county teams in the late 70's and early 80's who would wind up their southern opponents with politically abusive tauntsof "freestater", "mexican", "traitor", "desserter" and the like - these are the milder versions and they would be accompanied with the f or b adjectice for effect ... Not nice but all "part of the game" then and now.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
Class! What an absolute incompetent bollix Martin Breheny is.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
I'm curious here.
How come you're so definite that no northern players ever used the term 'fenians' or were not in any way aggressive towards their southern counterparts?
The Troubles lasted a long time and there were hundreds of northern players involved in games with their southern counterparts during that period.
I can't say anything about players but I can say plenty about elements of their fans.
Anyone old enough to remember the late Tom Kennedy, who owned Kennedy's in Drumcondra, will recall that Tom used to stand outside the bar door after games in Croker were over and he vetted each and every one he let in.
He didn't do this after every single match but he told me that during the 70s and 80s he was always wary whenever teams from the north were involved.
Tom reckoned that invariably a number of fans were hostile towards everyone they met from the south.
Apparently their gripe was that southerners were not giving them enough support in the conflict back at home.
I used to drink in Kennedy's in those times and I saw and heard some of those beauts in action and the same could be said for Fagan's and the Cat and other pubs in the area. I've no problem with saying that those hard chaws were always in a minority but there were enough of them throughout that period to cause trouble for all around them.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2012, 09:09:39 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
I'm curious here.
How come you're so definite that no northern players ever used the term 'fenians' or were not in any way aggressive towards their southern counterparts?
Maybe because they had bad experiences of being called Fenians themselves? I have to admit, having played in the 70s and 80s (though nowhere near inter-county level) this is a new one on me. I smell a bit of desperation.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
Sure we are all fenians up here in the GAA!
Quote from: Leo on March 23, 2012, 08:03:59 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
I know for sure that there were very many players on 6-county teams in the late 70's and early 80's who would wind up their southern opponents with politically abusive tauntsof "freestater", "mexican", "traitor", "desserter" and the like - these are the milder versions and they would be accompanied with the f or b adjectice for effect ... Not nice but all "part of the game" then and now.
That's it. Methinks Martin is confusing his insults. I've heard freestater. Never Mexican, Traitor or Desserter. But sure we both knew it was only slagging. If a lad from Antrim called me a Fenian I'd assume he liked me :)
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2012, 10:34:23 AM
Quote from: Leo on March 23, 2012, 08:03:59 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
I know for sure that there were very many players on 6-county teams in the late 70's and early 80's who would wind up their southern opponents with politically abusive tauntsof "freestater", "mexican", "traitor", "desserter" and the like - these are the milder versions and they would be accompanied with the f or b adjectice for effect ... Not nice but all "part of the game" then and now.
That's it. Methinks Martin is confusing his insults. I've heard freestater. Never Mexican, Traitor or Desserter. But sure we both knew it was only slagging. If a lad from Antrim called me a Fenian I'd assume he liked me :)
As we are, for the most part, emotionally buttoned up in the far North East, it is the equivalent of "Darling" elsewhere in the country. If he added the word bastard or cnut it would probaly mean he wanted to kiss you.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 23, 2012, 10:34:23 AM
Quote from: Leo on March 23, 2012, 08:03:59 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
I know for sure that there were very many players on 6-county teams in the late 70's and early 80's who would wind up their southern opponents with politically abusive tauntsof "freestater", "mexican", "traitor", "desserter" and the like - these are the milder versions and they would be accompanied with the f or b adjectice for effect ... Not nice but all "part of the game" then and now.
That's it. Methinks Martin is confusing his insults. I've heard freestater. Never Mexican, Traitor or Desserter. But sure we both knew it was only slagging. If a lad from Antrim called me a Fenian I'd assume he liked me :)
Same as that.
I swapped a fair few terms of affection with some of my fellow Gaels from the Wee Six alright but no one ever called me a fenian or any of the others you mentioned.
As well as that, the tulips I was dealing with were almost always pissed out of their minds. I just couldn't imagine a player out on the field coming out with the term, 'fenian.'
'Twould be a case of pot calling kettle black.
Hurlers from around Johnstown in Kilkenny get called Fenians the whole time.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2012, 09:09:39 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
I’m curious here.
How come you’re so definite that no northern players ever used the term ‘fenians’ or were not in any way aggressive towards their southern counterparts?
Tom reckoned that invariably a number of fans were hostile towards everyone they met from the south.
Apparently their gripe was that southerners were not giving them enough support in the conflict back at home.
You've pretty much answered your question yourself with your anecdote. Thats the gripe, so they're hardly gonna have been calling them fenians - any insults would tend to be the opposite of this! As to not being aggressive, I didnt say that, I'd be amazed if they hadn't been frankly! Breheny didnt get mixed up either, dont give him the credit. He told a lie, and because hes thick it was an obvious one.
Another point, notherners being called orange b**tards etc, isnt the equivalent of southerners being called freestaters/traitors etc, as it seems to be equated to here. Its much worse. I know thats just going to sound like sour grapes or something to our southern brethren, but the fact is, when we're called orange/british b**tards, thats calling us by names associated with the other side of the conflict. Everyones went through a lot of shit either directly or indirectly to earn the right not to be British if they choose. That they should have went through that, but then have it thrown back in their face by their fellow Irishmen, is what particularly galls. Whereas the freestater thing, while not being particularly conciliatory,.is...well.........true... ;)
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
Perhaps the northern players dishing out the insults were Prods*? That would make sense...
P.S. Leaving to one side the internecine GAA feuding, I must say, I find this whole thread enormously amusing :D
* - Like Sam Maguire ;)
So far we've established loyalists are black (or orange), although in the case of the most zealous, extremely white. Armagh are British (or orange), free-staters are in fact fenians (or fond of desserts), Seamus Heaney and John Hume were nearly West Brits, Down are stoops and Britain is a race.
EG, I don't see anything remotely funny in this whatsoever. It's no laughing matter...
Quote from: sheamy on March 23, 2012, 02:25:30 PM
EG, I don't see anything remotely funny in this whatsoever. It's no laughing matter...
I thought I had made it clear, but maybe not.
Anyhow,
quite aside from Gaelic footballers exchanging (deplorable) sectarian insults etc on the playing field, as a Unionist I find it hugely amusing that Republicans who all profess to want to see a United Ireland, should at the same time give each other so much grief from their respective sides of the border.
It all reminds me of Brendan Behan's observation that whenever Irish Republicans meet, the first item on the Agenda is always 'The Split'... ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 23, 2012, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 23, 2012, 02:25:30 PM
EG, I don't see anything remotely funny in this whatsoever. It's no laughing matter...
I thought I had made it clear, but maybe not.
Anyhow, quite aside from Gaelic footballers exchanging (deplorable) sectarian insults etc on the playing field, as a Unionist I find it hugely amusing that Republicans who all profess to want to see a United Ireland, should at the same time give each other so much grief from their respective sides of the border.
It all reminds me of Brendan Behan's observation that whenever Irish Republicans meet, the first item on the Agenda is always 'The Split'... ;)
You want to go to a few parish derbys to see boys falling out.
And ofcourse the good Loyalists of Linfield and Glentoran are choirboys.
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 23, 2012, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 23, 2012, 02:25:30 PM
EG, I don't see anything remotely funny in this whatsoever. It's no laughing matter...
I thought I had made it clear, but maybe not.
Anyhow, quite aside from Gaelic footballers exchanging (deplorable) sectarian insults etc on the playing field, as a Unionist I find it hugely amusing that Republicans who all profess to want to see a United Ireland, should at the same time give each other so much grief from their respective sides of the border.
It all reminds me of Brendan Behan's observation that whenever Irish Republicans meet, the first item on the Agenda is always 'The Split'... ;)
Not all of us want a united Ireland, most of us want nothing to do with Northern Ireland.
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 23, 2012, 03:43:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 23, 2012, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 23, 2012, 02:25:30 PM
EG, I don't see anything remotely funny in this whatsoever. It's no laughing matter...
I thought I had made it clear, but maybe not.
Anyhow, quite aside from Gaelic footballers exchanging (deplorable) sectarian insults etc on the playing field, as a Unionist I find it hugely amusing that Republicans who all profess to want to see a United Ireland, should at the same time give each other so much grief from their respective sides of the border.
It all reminds me of Brendan Behan's observation that whenever Irish Republicans meet, the first item on the Agenda is always 'The Split'... ;)
Not all of us want a united Ireland, most of us want nothing to do with Northern Ireland.
Boy don't we know!
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 23, 2012, 02:16:27 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
Perhaps the northern players dishing out the insults were Prods*? That would make sense...
P.S. Leaving to one side the internecine GAA feuding, I must say, I find this whole thread enormously amusing :D
* - Like Sam Maguire ;)
In fairness, thats very good. ;D
Quote from: haranguerer on March 23, 2012, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 23, 2012, 02:16:27 PM
[
Perhaps the northern players dishing out the insults were Prods*? * - Like Sam Maguire ;)
In fairness, thats very good. ;D
[/quote]
It's awful ... Sam was from Cork ;D
Quote from: haranguerer on March 23, 2012, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 23, 2012, 02:16:27 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 22, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Anyway....
Read Breheny today - he claims that during the troubles, there would have been regular stories of southern players being called 'fenians' by northern players. I'm gonna stick my neck out (not far though cos it isnt necessary) and say this is absolute total and utter bollocks. Has anyone ever heard of this happening??? He really should have thought up his lies better - it makes absolutely no sense!!!
Perhaps the northern players dishing out the insults were Prods*? That would make sense...
P.S. Leaving to one side the internecine GAA feuding, I must say, I find this whole thread enormously amusing :D
* - Like Sam Maguire ;)
In fairness, thats very good. ;D
Didn't know Sam was from the North.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2012, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 23, 2012, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 23, 2012, 02:16:27 PM
[
Perhaps the northern players dishing out the insults were Prods*? * - Like Sam Maguire ;)
In fairness, thats very good. ;D
It's awful ... Sam was from Cork ;D
[/quote]
EG didn't make any comment about where Sam was from, just his religion.
Presumably if he was a Cork man, he'd be rather galled that the trophy he lends his name to is for the All-Ireland, rather than the Cork-Not Cork Joint Championship?
Rossfan, AQMP, as our london friend says, EG was talking about the religion.
Not that it matters much anyway, if yous couldnt match up two asterisks its unlikely yous got the wit :P
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 23, 2012, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Why would any Irish person be called a 'West Brit'?
Quote from: haranguerer on March 23, 2012, 05:52:27 PM
Rossfan, AQMP, as our london friend says, EG was talking about the religion.
Not that it matters much anyway, if yous couldnt match up two asterisks its unlikely yous got the wit :P
I take it you're from the North yourself ... not even the ;D I put on it could make you see it was a humourous comment.
As for the London Scotch ( :P ) buck .. Thought he might be able to understand a biteen of Irish humour at this stage.
Speciall for ye boys
:) :D ;D :D :) :D ;D :D :)
or maybe :'( :'( :'(
Partitionism will end sooner than we think. But not in the way we would have previously thought, patitionism will end by the full rejoining of the 32 counties to the UK. I firmly believe that more and more people in the 26 counties would be glad of this to happen. The anglisicaton of the Free State in the last 10 years has been unreal. The media lap it up, it as if they are thinking thank God we can finally admit we love Britain! I was listening to 2fm last week prior to St Patricks and the DJ's comment was somehthing like- there will be a great parade in Cork tomorrow, I reckon there will be a lot of peoople dressed up as the Queen this year- very minor thing but, why would this even enter your head to say it-very strange.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2012, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 23, 2012, 05:52:27 PM
Rossfan, AQMP, as our london friend says, EG was talking about the religion.
Not that it matters much anyway, if yous couldnt match up two asterisks its unlikely yous got the wit :P
I take it you're from the North yourself ... not even the ;D I put on it could make you see it was a humourous comment.
As for the London Scotch ( :P ) buck .. Thought he might be able to understand a biteen of Irish humour at this stage*.
Speciall for ye boys
:) :D ;D :D :) :D ;D :D :)
or maybe :'( :'( :'(
Sure I do, hence my attempt at a Cork joke. But then you're just glad an Aberdonian's on this site, so that there's somebody even a Rossie can call a sheepshagger :P
*unless you read MainStreet's posts, in which case I'm an evil Scotsman who just can't contain his hatred for the irish
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2012, 09:36:35 PM
Partitionism will end sooner than we think. But not in the way we would have previously thought, patitionism will end by the full rejoining of the 32 counties to the UK. I firmly believe that more and more people in the 26 counties would be glad of this to happen. The anglisicaton of the Free State in the last 10 years has been unreal. The media lap it up, it as if they are thinking thank God we can finally admit we love Britain! I was listening to 2fm last week prior to St Patricks and the DJ's comment was somehthing like- there will be a great parade in Cork tomorrow, I reckon there will be a lot of peoople dressed up as the Queen this year- very minor thing but, why would this even enter your head to say it-very strange.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2012, 09:36:35 PM
Partitionism will end sooner than we think. But not in the way we would have previously thought, patitionism will end by the full rejoining of the 32 counties to the UK. I firmly believe that more and more people in the 26 counties would be glad of this to happen. The anglisicaton of the Free State in the last 10 years has been unreal. The media lap it up, it as if they are thinking thank God we can finally admit we love Britain! I was listening to 2fm last week prior to St Patricks and the DJ's comment was somehthing like- there will be a great parade in Cork tomorrow, I reckon there will be a lot of peoople dressed up as the Queen this year- very minor thing but, why would this even enter your head to say it-very strange.
It's tough being a free-state, partitionist, corrupt, German worshipping, Brit worshipping, money-worshipping, didn't-fight-50-years-before-I-was-born, how-dare-I-criticise-the-Church, Irish speaking West Brit.
How are you getting on yourself?
Oooops,
super slow me am. Just worked out the west brit thing; west of briterland me thinks? :-[
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:31:28 PM
Oooops,
super slow me am. Just worked out the west brit thing; west of briterland me thinks? :-[
One who lives as a Brit, but on an island to the West. (Leodhais?)
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 23, 2012, 10:40:04 PM
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:31:28 PM
Oooops,
super slow me am. Just worked out the west brit thing; west of briterland me thinks? :-[
One who lives as a Brit, but on an island to the West. (Leodhais?)
like Gay Burn, Dubs, free staters?
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:43:56 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 23, 2012, 10:40:04 PM
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:31:28 PM
Oooops,
super slow me am. Just worked out the west brit thing; west of briterland me thinks? :-[
One who lives as a Brit, but on an island to the West. (Leodhais?)
like Gay Burn, Dubs, free staters?
Nae idea, i'm a "north brit" :D
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 23, 2012, 10:45:44 PM
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:43:56 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 23, 2012, 10:40:04 PM
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:31:28 PM
Oooops,
super slow me am. Just worked out the west brit thing; west of briterland me thinks? :-[
One who lives as a Brit, but on an island to the West. (Leodhais?)
From a west brit point of view, you're a north east brit, get your geography sorted; yeak even Aberdeen; N/E britland, has a magnetic north
like Gay Burn, Dubs, free staters?
Nae idea, i'm a "north brit" :D
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:58:40 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 23, 2012, 10:45:44 PM
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:43:56 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 23, 2012, 10:40:04 PM
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:31:28 PM
Oooops,
super slow me am. Just worked out the west brit thing; west of briterland me thinks? :-[
One who lives as a Brit, but on an island to the West. (Leodhais?)
like Gay Burn, Dubs, free staters?
Nae idea, i'm a "north brit" :D
From a west brit point of view, you're a north east brit, get your geography sorted; yeak even Aberdeen; N/E britland, has a magnetic north
Until 2014, when, all being well, I won't be a Brit at all!
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:43:56 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 23, 2012, 10:40:04 PM
Quote from: ardal on March 23, 2012, 10:31:28 PM
Oooops,
super slow me am. Just worked out the west brit thing; west of briterland me thinks? :-[
One who lives as a Brit, but on an island to the West. (Leodhais?)
like Gay Burn, Dubs, free staters?
It might have taken you a while, but you certainly have it now! ;D
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2012, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 23, 2012, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Why would any Irish person be called a 'West Brit'?
A poor cop out, muppet. Try answering my question. Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2012, 09:36:35 PM
Partitionism will end sooner than we think. But not in the way we would have previously thought, patitionism will end by the full rejoining of the 32 counties to the UK. I firmly believe that more and more people in the 26 counties would be glad of this to happen. The anglisicaton of the Free State in the last 10 years has been unreal. The media lap it up, it as if they are thinking thank God we can finally admit we love Britain! I was listening to 2fm last week prior to St Patricks and the DJ's comment was somehthing like- there will be a great parade in Cork tomorrow, I reckon there will be a lot of peoople dressed up as the Queen this year- very minor thing but, why would this even enter your head to say it-very strange.
I would think this is not a serious post. Although this could lead to another debate. Would the Unionists in Northern Ireland want the 26 counties to rejoin the UK? Can't think of any reason why they would.
honest question...do any northerners really want to unite with the south ? it never seems that way with all the "free stater" jibes
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 24, 2012, 07:41:25 AM
honest question...do any northerners really want to unite with the south ? it never seems that way with all the "free stater" jibes
Believe it or not many Northerners don't use the term Freestate as an insult or jibe, it was only people on here who alerted me to that. In my youth it would have been used in the context of envy that you were free of British rule. There are still a substantial number of people here who want re-unification we just can't agree on the timing or the form.
For the record, I do not as a proud Ulster and Irishman consider the calling of a northerner racist or sectarian, but it is as vile and as hurtful as calling southern Irish people traitors or singing take it down from the mast. We are fellow Irishmen who have grown apart through no fault of our own we will find away sooner or later, probably later to reunite.
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2012, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 23, 2012, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Why would any Irish person be called a 'West Brit'?
A poor cop out, muppet. Try answering my question. Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
:D :D :D
Excuse the cliché, but you really couldn't make it up.
Quote from: dillinger on March 24, 2012, 01:09:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2012, 09:36:35 PM
Partitionism will end sooner than we think. But not in the way we would have previously thought, patitionism will end by the full rejoining of the 32 counties to the UK. I firmly believe that more and more people in the 26 counties would be glad of this to happen. The anglisicaton of the Free State in the last 10 years has been unreal. The media lap it up, it as if they are thinking thank God we can finally admit we love Britain! I was listening to 2fm last week prior to St Patricks and the DJ's comment was somehthing like- there will be a great parade in Cork tomorrow, I reckon there will be a lot of peoople dressed up as the Queen this year- very minor thing but, why would this even enter your head to say it-very strange.
I would think this is not a serious post. Although this could lead to another debate. Would the Unionists in Northern Ireland want the 26 counties to rejoin the UK? Can't think of any reason why they would.
If that were to happend (which it never would) I think its time to restart the original Irish Republic, the one more commonly known as the Connacht Republic, with its HQ/Capital in Castlebar.
Quote from: Hardy on March 24, 2012, 12:27:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2012, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 23, 2012, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Why would any Irish person be called a 'West Brit'?
A poor cop out, muppet. Try answering my question. Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
:D :D :D
Excuse the cliché, but you really couldn't make it up.
No Hardy it seems you can only be a West Brit if your from the plains of Meath or the bogs of Mayo ::)
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2012, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 23, 2012, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Why would any Irish person be called a 'West Brit'?
A poor cop out, muppet. Try answering my question. Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Way over your head Nally.
I'll spell it out a bit more. Why would it matter if he was from Derry? Is there any difference in being from Derry or Dublin or anywhere else, in West Britness?
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 03:35:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2012, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 23, 2012, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Why would any Irish person be called a 'West Brit'?
A poor cop out, muppet. Try answering my question. Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Way over your head Nally.
I'll spell it out a bit more. Why would it matter if he was from Derry? Is there any difference in being from Derry or Dublin or anywhere else, in West Britness?
I don't know, it just must be over my head. You seemed to make a jibe at Republicans calling certain people west-brits, so I am just at a loss to know why you feel they would label either of these two Derrymen as west-brits just for winning the presidency. You seem to be at a loss yourself, because I've asked you twice and you still can't seem to explain your remark.
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:22:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 03:35:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2012, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 23, 2012, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Why would any Irish person be called a 'West Brit'?
A poor cop out, muppet. Try answering my question. Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Way over your head Nally.
I'll spell it out a bit more. Why would it matter if he was from Derry? Is there any difference in being from Derry or Dublin or anywhere else, in West Britness?
I don't know, it just must be over my head. You seemed to make a jibe at Republicans calling certain people west-brits, so I am just at a loss to know why you feel they would label either of these two Derrymen as west-brits just for winning the presidency. You seem to be at a loss yourself, because I've asked you twice and you still can't seem to explain your remark.
You are correct at my reference to McGuinness. Now as he seemed to think anyone who was against his Presidential bid was a 'West Brit I took that to include at least some of his opponents his opponents (he did mention politicians in his insult). But now after your comment I am interested to see who can and can't be a West Brit.
You appear to be astonished at the notion of anyone from Derry being called a 'West Brit' so we have to conclude that Derry people can't be called West Brits. Any other exemptions we should know about?
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:28:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:22:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 03:35:38 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 12:07:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 23, 2012, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 23, 2012, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Why would any Irish person be called a 'West Brit'?
A poor cop out, muppet. Try answering my question. Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Derry and winning the Presidency?
Way over your head Nally.
I'll spell it out a bit more. Why would it matter if he was from Derry? Is there any difference in being from Derry or Dublin or anywhere else, in West Britness?
I don't know, it just must be over my head. You seemed to make a jibe at Republicans calling certain people west-brits, so I am just at a loss to know why you feel they would label either of these two Derrymen as west-brits just for winning the presidency. You seem to be at a loss yourself, because I've asked you twice and you still can't seem to explain your remark.
You are correct at my reference to McGuinness. Now as he seemed to think anyone who was against his Presidential bid was a 'West Brit I took that to include at least some of his opponents his opponents (he did mention politicians in his insult). But now after your comment I am interested to see who can and can't be a West Brit.
You appear to be astonished at the notion of anyone from Derry being called a 'West Brit' so we have to conclude that Derry people can't be called West Brits. Any other exemptions we should know about?
This isn't about presidential bids. You said that either of these two men would be labelled as a west-brit "after" they won the presidency. So I am just curious to know why they would be labelled as west-brits for winning the election.
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:35:11 PM
This isn't about presidential bids. You said that either of these two men would be labelled as a west-brit "after" they won the presidency. So I am just curious to know why they would be labelled as west-brits for winning the election.
Because to have won their hypothetical presidential bid they would have had to defeated an opponent who was in the business of labeling his opponents 'West Brits'. Jeees it is not that difficult.
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:37:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:35:11 PM
This isn't about presidential bids. You said that either of these two men would be labelled as a west-brit "after" they won the presidency. So I am just curious to know why they would be labelled as west-brits for winning the election.
Because to have won their hypothetical presidential bid they would have had to defeated an opponent who was in the business of labeling his opponents 'West Brits'. Jeees it is not that difficult.
Right, so it would have been an opponent who would have called the election winner a "west-brit"?
Let's look at someone who might use that term then, lets say, eh, Martin McGuinness. He ran in the Presidential election, and while he referred to "west-brit elements" in the media etc during the campaign, he never once referred to an opponent either during the campaign or after it, as a "west-brit". So I find it hard to believe that he would call Seamus Heaney or John Hume a "west-brit" if they ran, and won, against him.
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "
see his opponents as...", you said "would be
labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Again:
AND others attached to political parties
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:00:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Again: AND others attached to political parties
So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election? (Even though it was a comment made
during the election and not "after"?)
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:00:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Again: AND others attached to political parties
So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election?
I never mentioned Michael D, you did.
By the way, you are very welcome to the point, i.e. it wasn't just the media he called West Brits, it was also 'others attached to political parties.' Given it was an interview on the Presidential Election was can assume the 'others' were some way involved in the Election.
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:00:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Again: AND others attached to political parties
So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election?
I never mentioned Michael D, you did.
By the way, you are very welcome to the point, i.e. it wasn't just the media he called West Brits, it was also 'others attached to political parties.' Given it was an interview on the Presidential Election was can assume the 'others' were some way involved in the Election.
McGuinness's quote was not a reference to any opponent, and even if it were, you spoke about how either Derryman would be labelled "after" they won.
And as for my reference to Michael D....well it's your analogy. You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances. Seriously?
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:00:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Again: AND others attached to political parties
So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election?
I never mentioned Michael D, you did.
By the way, you are very welcome to the point, i.e. it wasn't just the media he called West Brits, it was also 'others attached to political parties.' Given it was an interview on the Presidential Election was can assume the 'others' were some way involved in the Election.
McGuinness's quote was not a reference to any opponent, and even if it were, you spoke about how either Derryman would be labelled "after" they won.
And as for my reference to Michael D....well it's your analogy. You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances. Seriously?
Wrong again, you brought up their being from Derry, not me. I never mentioned it. To me an Irishman is an Irishman. I don't care where he is from. You on the other hand seem to think that the West Brit insult couldn't possible apply to some Irishmen and yet you obviously feel it applies to others. Why the discrimination?
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:00:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Again: AND others attached to political parties
So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election?
I never mentioned Michael D, you did.
By the way, you are very welcome to the point, i.e. it wasn't just the media he called West Brits, it was also 'others attached to political parties.' Given it was an interview on the Presidential Election was can assume the 'others' were some way involved in the Election.
McGuinness's quote was not a reference to any opponent, and even if it were, you spoke about how either Derryman would be labelled "after" they won.
And as for my reference to Michael D....well it's your analogy. You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances. Seriously?
Wrong again, you brought up their being from Derry, not me. I never mentioned it. To me an Irishman is an Irishman. I don't care where he is from. You on the other hand seem to think that the West Brit insult couldn't possible apply to some Irishmen and yet you obviously feel it applies to others. Why the discrimination?
It's nothing to do with where they are from, I am merely referring to them by where they are from, in the same way I have referred to them by their surname. Incidental.
You are being evasive as possible here. I ask you again, You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances??!
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 23, 2012, 03:37:54 PM
And ofcourse the good Loyalists of Linfield and Glentoran are choirboys.
And this relates to the subject in hand how? ::)
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on March 23, 2012, 03:43:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 23, 2012, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: sheamy on March 23, 2012, 02:25:30 PM
EG, I don't see anything remotely funny in this whatsoever. It's no laughing matter...
I thought I had made it clear, but maybe not.
Anyhow, quite aside from Gaelic footballers exchanging (deplorable) sectarian insults etc on the playing field, as a Unionist I find it hugely amusing that Republicans who all profess to want to see a United Ireland, should at the same time give each other so much grief from their respective sides of the border.
It all reminds me of Brendan Behan's observation that whenever Irish Republicans meet, the first item on the Agenda is always 'The Split'... ;)
Not all of us want a united Ireland, most of us want nothing to do with Northern Ireland.
For many Northerners*, the feeling is mutual.
* - And not just the Nationalist ones, either... ;)
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:19:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:00:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Again: AND others attached to political parties
So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election?
I never mentioned Michael D, you did.
By the way, you are very welcome to the point, i.e. it wasn't just the media he called West Brits, it was also 'others attached to political parties.' Given it was an interview on the Presidential Election was can assume the 'others' were some way involved in the Election.
McGuinness's quote was not a reference to any opponent, and even if it were, you spoke about how either Derryman would be labelled "after" they won.
And as for my reference to Michael D....well it's your analogy. You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances. Seriously?
Wrong again, you brought up their being from Derry, not me. I never mentioned it. To me an Irishman is an Irishman. I don't care where he is from. You on the other hand seem to think that the West Brit insult couldn't possible apply to some Irishmen and yet you obviously feel it applies to others. Why the discrimination?
It's nothing to do with where they are from, I am merely referring to them by where they are from, in the same way I have referred to them by their surname. Incidental.
You are being evasive as possible here. I ask you again, You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances??!
Firstly and for the umpteenth time, I never mentioned they were from Derry. You did. They could be from Carlow or Kerry for all I care. You are the one who made the Derry connection and you included their being from Derry when questioning how they could be West Brits. You are the one being evasive as you still haven't explained this.
Secondly you still pretend McGuinness was only talking about the media. He wasn't, he was also clearly firing the insult at unnamed political opponents. Now, since it was during a Presidential Election it is reasonable to assume those opponents were connected to that election and not, say, a local election in Tyrone. I would guess his target was further right than Higgins but as he never named them, who knows? (Other than yourself obviously).
Quote from: dillinger on March 24, 2012, 01:09:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2012, 09:36:35 PM
Partitionism will end sooner than we think. But not in the way we would have previously thought, patitionism will end by the full rejoining of the 32 counties to the UK. I firmly believe that more and more people in the 26 counties would be glad of this to happen. The anglisicaton of the Free State in the last 10 years has been unreal. The media lap it up, it as if they are thinking thank God we can finally admit we love Britain! I was listening to 2fm last week prior to St Patricks and the DJ's comment was somehthing like- there will be a great parade in Cork tomorrow, I reckon there will be a lot of peoople dressed up as the Queen this year- very minor thing but, why would this even enter your head to say it-very strange.
I would think this is not a serious post. Although this could lead to another debate. Would the Unionists in Northern Ireland want the 26 counties to rejoin the UK? Can't think of any reason why they would.
I'd say we'd use our Veto.
Or failing that, leave the UK... ;)
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:27:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:19:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:05:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:01:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:00:24 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 04:48:41 PM
QuoteMy faith is with the people... there are West Brit elements, in and around Dublin – some of them are attached to some sections of the media, others are attached to political parties and were formerly involved in political parties.
He referred to the media AND others attached to political parties. I am guessing they weren't in Sinn Féin, so yes I am guessing they were what he would see as opponents at some stage.
Backtracking away!! You didn't say "see his opponents as...", you said "would be labelled as". And throughout the campaign he didn't once call an opponent a "west brit" and no amount of twisting words can change that. Furthermore, "after" the campaign he didn't label Michael D as a "west-brit", so again, I'm still at a loss to know why he would label Seamus Heaney or John Hume as such if they ran and won.
Again: AND others attached to political parties
So in your mind, that equates to calling Michael D a "west brit" for winning the election?
I never mentioned Michael D, you did.
By the way, you are very welcome to the point, i.e. it wasn't just the media he called West Brits, it was also 'others attached to political parties.' Given it was an interview on the Presidential Election was can assume the 'others' were some way involved in the Election.
McGuinness's quote was not a reference to any opponent, and even if it were, you spoke about how either Derryman would be labelled "after" they won.
And as for my reference to Michael D....well it's your analogy. You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances. Seriously?
Wrong again, you brought up their being from Derry, not me. I never mentioned it. To me an Irishman is an Irishman. I don't care where he is from. You on the other hand seem to think that the West Brit insult couldn't possible apply to some Irishmen and yet you obviously feel it applies to others. Why the discrimination?
It's nothing to do with where they are from, I am merely referring to them by where they are from, in the same way I have referred to them by their surname. Incidental.
You are being evasive as possible here. I ask you again, You were talking about how the two Derrymen would be labelled as west brits "after" they "won comfortably". So I am just wondering - Michael D won comfortably and wasn't labelled by McGuinness as a west brit, so why would he label Heaney or Hume in the same circumstances??!
Firstly and for the umpteenth time, I never mentioned they were from Derry. You did. They could be from Carlow or Kerry for all I care. You are the one who made the Derry connection and you included their being from Derry when questioning how they could be West Brits. You are the one being evasive as you still haven't explained this.
Secondly you still pretend McGuinness was only talking about the media. He wasn't, he was also clearly firing the insult at unnamed political opponents. Now, since it was during a Presidential Election it is reasonable to assume those opponents were connected to that election and not, say, a local election in Tyrone. I would guess his target was further right than Higgins but as he never named them, who knows? (Other than yourself obviously).
I didn't bring up the Derrymen connection did. Yourself and Maguire started that. I merely responded:
Quote from: muppet on March 22, 2012, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
Some people. But not many. I don't believe for a minute that Hume or Heaney would have had a reception similar to McGuinness. In my opinion, either of them would probably have won comfortably.
After which they would be condemned as 'West Brits'.
And your post as quoted above referred to how either man would be labelled as a west-brit "
after" they won the Presidential election. So PLEASE explain why they would be labelled, when Michael D wasn't?
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:36:47 PM
And your post as quoted above referred to how either man would be labelled as a west-brit "after" they won the Presidential election. So PLEASE explain why they would be labelled, when Michael D wasn't?
You are tied in knots now.
You brought their being from Derry into this.
Secondly McGuinness blamed West Brit elements for questioning his IRA past. That was the context of his insult. Michael D Higgins was one of those who questioned his IRA past so it is very possible McGuinness was including him, but as he didn't elaborate, who knows who he was talking about? Other than yourself of course, who seems to know all on this topic, but naturally you won't tell us.
Quote from: muppet on March 24, 2012, 05:45:33 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 05:36:47 PM
And your post as quoted above referred to how either man would be labelled as a west-brit "after" they won the Presidential election. So PLEASE explain why they would be labelled, when Michael D wasn't?
You are tied in knots now.
You brought their being from Derry into this.
Secondly McGuinness blamed West Brit elements for questioning his IRA past. That was the context of his insult. Michael D Higgins was one of those who questioned his IRA past so it is very possible McGuinness was including him, but as he didn't elaborate, who knows who he was talking about? Other than yourself of course, who seems to know all on this topic, but naturally you won't tell us.
How exactly did
I bring Derry into it?? Maguire was talking about Seamus Heaney & John Hume and your response was about them! I only continued talking about them! Keep up!! And your comment was about what the reaction would be
AFTER either WON the presidency. You predicted they would be termed "west-brits".
Based on this, please answer:
1. "After" Michael D won the Presidency, did McGuinness label him a west brit?
2. Bearing in mind that the answer to the above question, no matter how hard you wish it were not, is no - why would it be different for Heaney/Hume?
Quote from: hardstation on March 24, 2012, 09:59:29 PM
Jaysus, I have read this and I want to get to the bottom of it. I have two questions. One for muppet and one for Nally Stand.
Muppet:
You made a comment in reply to Maguire in which you said that after winning the presidential election Heaney and Hume would be called west brits. Why do you think they would be called west brits?
Nally Stand:
You replied to muppet's comment (see above) asking why someone from Derry would be called a west brit. muppet didn't say that they would be called west brits because they are from Derry. To me, west britishness is to do with political thinking rather than where in Ireland you live. Why did you ask your question?
I only said Derry because the two men Maguire was referring too were from Derry (Seamus Heaney & John Hume). I have referred to them at different stages both as Derrymen and other times by their surnames. Both just by way of outlining who I was referring to. Nothing more and no significance attached to where they are from. If they were e.g. from Wexford, I'd stil ask the same questions off muppet - why would they be called west-brits "after" winning the presidency.
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2012, 12:11:37 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 24, 2012, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 24, 2012, 09:59:29 PM
Jaysus, I have read this and I want to get to the bottom of it. I have two questions. One for muppet and one for Nally Stand.
Muppet:
You made a comment in reply to Maguire in which you said that after winning the presidential election Heaney and Hume would be called west brits. Why do you think they would be called west brits?
Nally Stand:
You replied to muppet's comment (see above) asking why someone from Derry would be called a west brit. muppet didn't say that they would be called west brits because they are from Derry. To me, west britishness is to do with political thinking rather than where in Ireland you live. Why did you ask your question?
I only said Derry because the two men Maguire was referring too were from Derry (Seamus Heaney & John Hume). I have referred to them at different stages both as Derrymen and other times by their surnames. Both just by way of outlining who I was referring to. Nothing more and no significance attached to where they are from. If they were e.g. from Wexford, I'd stil ask the same questions off muppet - why would they be called west-brits "after" winning the presidency.
Nah, Nally, that's not how your original question reads to me (and possibly everyone else). Somebody from Derry could be called a west brit as much as someone from any other county. If you wish to retract that question and replace it with the following, then fair enough:
why would they be called west-brits "after" winning the presidency.
Up to muppet then...
Well apologies if that is misleading but my subsequent posts make it clear that I am attaching no importance what-so-ever to the Derry aspect. Again, only mentioned because the two men that Maguire and muppet referred to were Derrymen.
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2012, 12:26:49 AM
Fair enough.
Just a wee test here. Give me the name of a real person who you believe to be a west brit.
Ahh not a test! I thought those days were well behind me!
Hows about Sir Anthony Joseph Francis O'Reilly, for one.
Conor Cruise?
Ruth Dudley?
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2012, 12:57:47 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 25, 2012, 12:33:10 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2012, 12:26:49 AM
Fair enough.
Just a wee test here. Give me the name of a real person who you believe to be a west brit.
Ahh not a test! I thought those days were well behind me!
Hows about Sir Anthony Joseph Francis O'Reilly, for one.
Conor Cruise?
Ruth Dudley?
Thanks for that. Perfect answer and yes, all west brits in my opinion. Now, had the lads been talking about those three, would you have answered the following statement (italics) with the question (in bold)?
Had Tony beans, Conor Cruise O'Brien or Ruth Dudley Edwards won the presidential election, they would be called west brits.
Why would someone be called a west-brit for being from Dublin and winning the Presidency??
and winning the Presidency?
No. I wouldn't have been totally certain without looking it up that all three were bornin /live in Dublin if I'm honest. But when Maguire & Muppet mentioned Heaney & Hume, I mentioned Derry because they had it in common that they were from Derry. No other reason, again apologies if it was misleading, but there was zero significance attached to it!!
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2012, 02:17:16 AM
OK, your question should really have been "Why would they have been called west brits".
Now on to muppet.
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2012, 02:17:16 AM
OK, your question should really have been "Why would they have been called west brits".
Now on to muppet.
Aleady answered that.
McGuinness referred to more than just the media, he also referred to others connected to political parties. The context was them asking (the most predictably obvious) questions about his IRA past. Most of his opponents did that, including Higgins, although McGuinness never specified his target(s).
The focus on before/after the election is irrelevant as Hume/Heaney didn't run. The label would most likely have appeared whenever they entered the race. On this thread their names only appeared as dead cert winners of the election, i.e. without all of the debates and questions that would have to go with getting elected. Nally predictable is focusing on one irrelevant word 'after' and ignores the point, the 'West Brit' I-am-more-Irish-than-you insult. Given that I have seen SDLP members called West Brits on this forum it is not as great a leap as some might pretend.
Well you said "afterwards". And it's amazing how much squirming you are doing to try claim that McGuinness labelled Michael D a west brit. HE DID NOT. YOUR SQUIRMING AND WISHFUL THINKING DOESN'T CHANGE THAT. In fact, far from terming Muchael D a west brit, McGuinness actually said Higgins "is a man of great intellectual capacity and man of huge heart and I've every confidence that he will be one of Ireland's finest presidents" and believed he "would be my president also" (which seems the opposite of labelling him a west brit).
So the fact is, we have been talking about this for an age now, and you have not put up one good reason yet to explain why McGuinness would term either Heaney or Hume as west brits for winning the presidency.
Nally - 9.42 am
Quoteyou have not put up one good reason yet to explain why McGuinness would term either Heaney or Hume as west brits for winning the presidency.
Muppet - 5.50am
QuoteGiven that I have seen SDLP members called West Brits on this forum it is not as great a leap as some might pretend.
Nally - 9.42 am
Quoteyou have not put up one good reason...
And only one of the two men referred to are in the sdlp, so all in all, hardly muppet's reasoning for his original comment!
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 25, 2012, 09:41:32 AM
Well you said "afterwards". And it's amazing how much squirming you are doing to try claim that McGuinness labelled Michael D a west brit. HE DID NOT. YOUR SQUIRMING AND WISHFUL THINKING DOESN'T CHANGE THAT. In fact, far from terming Muchael D a west brit, McGuinness actually said Higgins "is a man of great intellectual capacity and man of huge heart and I've every confidence that he will be one of Ireland's finest presidents" and believed he "would be my president also" (which seems the opposite of labelling him a west brit).
So the fact is, we have been talking about this for an age now, and you have not put up one good reason yet to explain why McGuinness would term either Heaney or Hume as west brits for winning the presidency.
Please show me exactly where I claimed that McGuinness called Michael D a West Brit? You are either reading what you think I am writing or you are making stuff up to argue with.
As for your second question. I said they would be condemned as West Brit's. I didn't say McGuinness would do it.
The West Brit insult seems to be thrown at a) random southerns and b) occasional opponents of SF. That may or may not be completely correct, but that it the way it appears to me on this site.
For example of a) see:
QuoteQuote from: Nally Stand on October 24, 2010, 08:04:57 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on October 24, 2010, 01:05:04 PM
Northern Ireland b**tard is a bit of a mouthful I usually just use the term Nordie b**tard.
To which I unfailingly respond, "fcuk off ya dirty rotten west-brit free state sellout b**tard"
And an example of b) see:
Quote from: Ulick on April 27, 2010, 11:28:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2010, 12:25:53 PM
Why is this tread the focus of debate about the upcoming elections? It looks like Sinn Fein are more into SDLP bashing than focusing on their own policies.
Policies? It's a Brit election, policy is irrelevant. Given that the amount of influence anyone this side of the water will have amounts to the square root of f**k all, the only policy that matters is position on the National Question. The Stoops appear to want to doff their caps to the old colonial masters and Durkan and McDonnell have been seduced by the pomp, circumstance and cash of the Brit establishment - Irish nationalists my hole. West Brits or Uncle Toms would be a more fitting description.
So while I never said anyone in particular would call them this, it appears likely, to me anyway, that if they had defeated the SF candidate that someone, somewhere would most likely have branded them a 'West Brit'.
Now I am open to correction on this, but for that to happen you would have to fully explain the term 'West Brit' and point out my mis-understanding of it.
You have referred to McGuinness numerous times, so not just me doing that and you seemed quite content to go along with talk about him until now. And you remarked that after one of the men won, they would be "labelled". That's a far cry from your most recent analysis of how someone, somewhere might call whichever one a west brit. And considering the two men referred to is as part of a hypothetical scenario, I mentioned Michael D for no other reason than it is the most recent real election to measure your remark against. Now considering nobody has called him a west brit "after winning comfortably", I am still at a total loss as to why either Hune or Heaney would be termed such for winning it.
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 25, 2012, 06:20:20 PM
You have referred to McGuinness numerous times, so not just me doing that and you seemed quite content to go along with talk about him until now. And you remarked that after one of the men won, they would be "labelled". That's a far cry from your most recent analysis of how someone, somewhere might call whichever one a west brit. And considering the two men referred to is as part of a hypothetical scenario, I mentioned Michael D for no other reason than it is the most recent real election to measure your remark against. Now considering nobody has called him a west brit "after winning comfortably", I am still at a total loss as to why either Hune or Heaney would be termed such for winning it.
I referred to McGuinness, but not in the way said I did.
I have offered you the chance to point out the error of my ways, please explain to me where someone might be called a 'West Brit' and where someone might not. For example you seem apoplectic that someone might be called a 'West Brit' AFTER an election, doe this mean it would be ok before an election? It would be helpful if you could explain why someone from Derry couldn't be one as you seemed to imply earlier, but feel free to correct me.
Quote from: muppet on March 25, 2012, 07:41:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 25, 2012, 06:20:20 PM
You have referred to McGuinness numerous times, so not just me doing that and you seemed quite content to go along with talk about him until now. And you remarked that after one of the men won, they would be "labelled". That's a far cry from your most recent analysis of how someone, somewhere might call whichever one a west brit. And considering the two men referred to is as part of a hypothetical scenario, I mentioned Michael D for no other reason than it is the most recent real election to measure your remark against. Now considering nobody has called him a west brit "after winning comfortably", I am still at a total loss as to why either Hune or Heaney would be termed such for winning it.
I referred to McGuinness, but not in the way said I did.
I have offered you the chance to point out the error of my ways, please explain to me where someone might be called a 'West Brit' and where someone might not. For example you seem apoplectic that someone might be called a 'West Brit' AFTER an election, doe this mean it would be ok before an election? It would be helpful if you could explain why someone from Derry couldn't be one as you seemed to imply earlier, but feel free to correct me.
As I implied earlier? I've clarified that repeatedly. And don't ask me to explain west brit for you. You brought it up. In the past day you have failed to give any logical or rational reasoning behind your post, so to be honest - I'm getting bored.