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'Louth had a record breaking 6-35 to 0-2 win over Kilkenny in Ballyragget. The Cats had no substitutes as 11 of their players didn't turn up on the night.'

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=163026 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=163026)

What is to be done with them?
Fair enough they're not that interested but there's a difference between apathy and going out of your way to be absolutely useless at a game.
Was it ever any different?

Disgraceful. A club u16 team would get in shit for this carry on

Woeful and inexcusable.
What's worse, there seems to be an section of Kilkenny folk who almost take a sneering delight in the contempt they show football.

I'd say they sit around the pub dreaming up new ways of showing that level of contempt.
They'll send out a team consisting of a variety of elderly farm animals before long.
Which will probably concede less than their u-21's did tonight.

I didn't think they would top last year's U-21 result Carlow 8-19 1-01 Kilkenny

Oh & Meath were beaten by our neighbours up the road.  ;)

We let them win.

Kilkenny people are probably thinking the same about Meath hurling board, would imagine Kilkenny would beat Meath by same score at hurling.

It's amazing that a whole county can't find 22 or so players that care about football enough to be dedicated to training and representing their county. No one is asking them to be good or even win matches, but no football first county almost purposefully makes a show of their hurling team like Kilkenny do their football set-up.

They should take the Cavan approach for senior hurling and apply it to all levels and just resign from inter-county competition if this is the best they can come up with, it's a waste of every team they play's time and money.

Surely the must have 20+ blowins at the very least, that would relish the chance of playing some county football.

Disgraceful is the only way to describe what happened tonight.  No blame to the 15 lads who turned up to play for their county.  But what about the other 11 on the panel who did not bother turning up.  However, it is the County Board who really should be ashamed of themselves to allow this to happen.  Jinxy and Bord na Mona man are right, KK appear to be trying to show as much contempt as they can towards football.  I would love to hear Ned Quinn and co from the KK County Board explain tonight's farce.  And they should also apologise to the Louth County Board and players for bringing them down to Ballyragget for this bad joke.

Quote from: adevvabr on February 29, 2012, 11:13:29 PM
Kilkenny people are probably thinking the same about Meath hurling board, would imagine Kilkenny would beat Meath by same score at hurling.

A lot you'd know about Meath hurling.

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 12:25:35 AM

Quote from: adevvabr on February 29, 2012, 11:13:29 PM
Kilkenny people are probably thinking the same about Meath hurling board, would imagine Kilkenny would beat Meath by same score at hurling.

A lot you'd know about Meath hurling.

Good hurling clubs in Meath where football plays second fiddle, great to see it as well. Kilkenny are a disgrace, think it's part of their mentality that if they are not very good at it they snigger away as if there is something noble in this massive failure. If anything it takes away from their success in hurling when you compare this abject failure to the great work being put in by counties such as Tipp and Limerick in football.

Am I right in thinking that Kilkenny only re-entered the NFL when there was talk off grants for inter county players?

During the debate on Rule 42 a junior club in Kilkenny proposed that the rule banning foreign sports from GAA grounds should be extended to football. They got a surprising amount of support!

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on February 29, 2012, 10:49:44 PM
Woeful and inexcusable.
What's worse, there seems to be an section of Kilkenny folk who almost take a sneering delight in the contempt they show football.

I've friends in Kilkenny and one of my earliest GAA memories is meeting Christy Heffernan and Billy Fitzpatrick down there after some league game, so I've always been a fan of KK hurling. But my experience with them is the same as yours re their attitude to football. Many of them will enjoy this result.

The 11 subs all deciding not to show up (if true) is bizarre. I wonder did they all receive instruction from on high?

Quote from: adevvabr on February 29, 2012, 11:13:29 PM
Kilkenny people are probably thinking the same about Meath hurling board, would imagine Kilkenny would beat Meath by same score at hurling.

You could possibly make that argument if it was Kerry who'd beat them by 50 points. This was Louth though. A middle of the road team who hasnt won an All Ireland in more than 50 years.

They should be let alone. Its like hurling in tyrone, only for the ladies

Yep, it's a badge of honour in Kilkenny to hate football. Kilkenny people would have got more enjoyment out of that result than Louth people. There would be less "embarrassment" in your son coming out than if he went off playing football for the county. Threaten to throw them out of the hurling championships unless they sharpen up their act, that will fairly light the fire under them.

I'd come at this from a different angle - why are they fielding in these kind of competitions at all if that's the level they're at? Is it possible that there are some central grants available and that this is the motivation - access the grant, spend feck all of it, and you can tip the hat then and say that at least you fielded a team. I suspect that if somebody was to go over the Kilkenny accounts with a fine toothcomb, somewhere in there you'd get to the bottom of why they allow stuff like this to happen.

Comparisons with hurling are not apt for one simple reason - you can work hard at your hurling and still struggle to make inroads, it's a very, very difficult art. Football, by and large, isn't. If you put in the work, you'll get a long way and while you might still be weak, you won't suffer hidings like this to middling teams. Kilkenny footballers are getting hammered week in and week out in NFL division 4 - there's no equivalent hurling team to that, a side that's getting scutched even in their league.

Some balls  talked on this subject, Kilkenny crap at football!!!! well done Sherlock's

Cavan crap at hurling? yes, again we are starting to catch on. Fermanagh crap at hurling? Leitrim crap at? well make your own mind up on that, not bad at Scor mind your ;)

Where do we stop? will we kick out all the counties from their main code championships for being crap at the other sporting code. Behave yourselves FFS

I must have missed the thread of scorn and displeasure when Cavan county board pulled their senior hurling team out of the NHL or Derry U-21 hurlers failed to field in the championship a few years back.

I wasn't that long ago either that the Tyrone county secretary talked about the same thing.

I'm not supporting Kilkenny on this as every county should put in the same effort in both codes, but you are all getting on your high horses because it happened in a football competition, whereas it happens in hurling all the time.

Quote from: johnneycool on March 01, 2012, 10:43:27 AM
I must have missed the thread of scorn and displeasure when Cavan county board pulled their senior hurling team out of the NHL or Derry U-21 hurlers failed to field in the championship a few years back.

I wasn't that long ago either that the Tyrone county secretary talked about the same thing.

I'm not supporting Kilkenny on this as every county should put in the same effort in both codes, but you are all getting on your high horses because it happened in a football competition, whereas it happens in hurling all the time.

It's a football biased forum Johnney FFS. Most posters wouldn't know what end of the stick they would use in a match, and the next hurling match the would go to watch will be their first

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2012, 10:47:55 AM

Quote from: johnneycool on March 01, 2012, 10:43:27 AM
I must have missed the thread of scorn and displeasure when Cavan county board pulled their senior hurling team out of the NHL or Derry U-21 hurlers failed to field in the championship a few years back.

I wasn't that long ago either that the Tyrone county secretary talked about the same thing.

I'm not supporting Kilkenny on this as every county should put in the same effort in both codes, but you are all getting on your high horses because it happened in a football competition, whereas it happens in hurling all the time.

It's a football biased forum Johnney FFS. Most posters wouldn't know what end of the stick they would use in a match, and the next hurling match the would go to watch will be their first

sorry Milltown, forgot about that.

I seem to remember way back in the mists of time, possibly '85 or '86, a National League game (can't remember who ths opposition was, maybe Clare?) but KK lost 6-25 to 0-0 and a local KK journalist who turned up to watch the game came on as a sub.

It's only a couple of years ago that Antrim beat KK 3-33 to 1-0 in the Tommy Murphy and the KK goal was scored in the last minute.  Antrim scored something like 2-20 in the first half.

I can also point to the All Ireland Senior Hurling Semi Final of 1954 when Wexford beat Antrim 12-17 to 2-3.  Now at that stage Antrim were bucked out of the senior for 30 odd years.  Not sure what you do about KK U-21s mind you.

What is strange is that representing Kilkenny at football so stigmatised that 11 fellas don't show up on the night. That hints at something deeper. Under normal circumstances, any person should be proud to pull on their county jersey in any code or level.

Kilkenny people often claim that no one is interested in football because of hurling, so why bother. However how come soccer and rugby are fairly strong down there? The implied 'everyone just wants hurling' argument doesn't wash as there is a proven appetite for other sports. If you subtly kill the interest in a sport at source it is very easy to then claim that no one wants to play it.

Comparisons with hurling results and margins are not valid as is vastly easier to run up a margin in hurling.  To lose a football match by that much you practically need both teams to be shooting at the same set of goalposts.

And obviously there are several counties that do little for hurling. Kilkenny's treatment of football offers them a nice opt out from any responsibilities towards hurling.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 01, 2012, 11:11:57 AM
If you subtly kill the interest in a sport at source it is very easy to then claim that no one wants to play it.

100% right there Bord na Mona.

This can be done in lots of ways from setting club fixtures at the shittiest of times, ill equipping teams, less favourable treatment between the codes, forcing lads to chose one code over the other and the likes. Happens in loads of counties.

Perhaps apropos, or perhaps on a tangent, I remember travelling down there for an O'Byrne Cup match a couple of years ago. After the game I got talking to the Kilkenny centre back on the day, a guy who actually acquitted himself quite well, albeit in another 30 point hiding or something similar.

His view was that there were a few lads on the panel that wanted to put in an effort, but that even basics like getting training together was hard work - it would have to come from the players, and a few times they ended up training on public parks and the like because the county board wouldn't provide a pitch. The CB justification was the same - lack of interest - but he asked who would be interested in training on a bare patch of grass with one football that they bought themselves? He knew things would get better by the time the league started, but in terms of training for division 4, or the U21, it was too late. That in itself stopped a lot of lads from making the effort.

The other thing he mentioned was how there was a tendency to parachute in hurlers for some games, and that these lads had no interest in football but they were invariably good due to high level training and fitness, and so it was hard make the case to drop them for the guy who actually wanted to play football. The footballer would miss out on a game where they might be competitive, but when it came to a tough away trip in the league or something similar, the hurler was nowhere to be seen.


Ultimately, a county board's remit is to provide gaelic games for those that want them. The official line in Kilkenny is that no-one wants to play football, so why should they make an effort. That may be the case, and if so fair enough. The issue is whether or not the option is on the table to play football and to do it right? Or are the players not interested in playing football because they know that they'll be treated like nuisances? The same thing applies to hurling in a lot of other counties. On that basis, before I make up my mind here, I'd be interested to talk to football people in the county and get more of their views. The rest of us are just speculating.

Kilkenny at a big disadvantage in that they have no output in which to play at their level in which they would even be competitive. For sure they can make more of an effort but this is pointless in the short-term as no matter what they do they'll get these hidings. In football counties that try to play hurling, at least they have leagues and championships with similar team, which gives them a realistic target and focus. They can build on this and then move onto the next level if successful.

Expecting Kilkenny to compete at the minute is impossible. By all accounts their Senior football championship is probably over at this stage.

If they don't want to play football then so be it. I'm sure their are plenty in football counties that would love to have the same attitude to hurling*.

* - not my opinion but i know plenty who do hold it.

I think kk should be punished for allowing lads to be humiliated like that. Either have respect for yourselves and the game or lose your grants for hurling.
That'll learn them.

What is the story with Kilkenny Football as in number of teams that compete at each level? or would there even be the three normal grades (Senior, Intermediate, junior) in the county? That was a pretty cruel night for them lads although i've experienced many a tankin on the football field and returned no bother the next week so this idea of fines and penalties is pretty ridiculous. And as for Louth being a middling team, U21 level is very tight and hard to pick the strongest teams. Louth could well go on and win Leinster.

Theres lads making this up as they go along.  There are those who would lambast the Kilkenny county for not wanting to play football and insist they should have to play it whether they like it or not, who are also arguing that the railway cup should be done away with despite players wanting to play it.
I think we have too many old school committee men on here who have only their way.  Leave Kilkenny home, they contribute more than most at county level in their chosen code.  The reality is that unless we encorage dual players and encourage burnout most counties best athletes will choose and stay with one sport and with half the country abroad its not an issue. There are issue we need to address and kilkennys attitude to football is not one of them.   Let the footballers go like the Windmill.   
 

Quote from: Lone Shark on March 01, 2012, 11:32:03 AM
Perhaps apropos, or perhaps on a tangent, I remember travelling down there for an O'Byrne Cup match a couple of years ago. After the game I got talking to the Kilkenny centre back on the day, a guy who actually acquitted himself quite well, albeit in another 30 point hiding or something similar.

His view was that there were a few lads on the panel that wanted to put in an effort, but that even basics like getting training together was hard work - it would have to come from the players, and a few times they ended up training on public parks and the like because the county board wouldn't provide a pitch. The CB justification was the same - lack of interest - but he asked who would be interested in training on a bare patch of grass with one football that they bought themselves? He knew things would get better by the time the league started, but in terms of training for division 4, or the U21, it was too late. That in itself stopped a lot of lads from making the effort.

The other thing he mentioned was how there was a tendency to parachute in hurlers for some games, and that these lads had no interest in football but they were invariably good due to high level training and fitness, and so it was hard make the case to drop them for the guy who actually wanted to play football. The footballer would miss out on a game where they might be competitive, but when it came to a tough away trip in the league or something similar, the hurler was nowhere to be seen.


Ultimately, a county board's remit is to provide gaelic games for those that want them. The official line in Kilkenny is that no-one wants to play football, so why should they make an effort. That may be the case, and if so fair enough. The issue is whether or not the option is on the table to play football and to do it right? Or are the players not interested in playing football because they know that they'll be treated like nuisances? The same thing applies to hurling in a lot of other counties. On that basis, before I make up my mind here, I'd be interested to talk to football people in the county and get more of their views. The rest of us are just speculating.

Not too many Leitrim posters on this site, though they do have some supporters that come on and defend them ;)

Quote from: mannix on March 01, 2012, 11:39:11 AM
I think kk should be punished for allowing lads to be humiliated like that. Either have respect for yourselves and the game or lose your grants for hurling.
That'll learn them.

Then Croke Park would be awash with money coming back from all the other county boards losing their football grants using your criteria.

Quote from: Lone Shark on March 01, 2012, 10:32:04 AM
Kilkenny footballers are getting hammered week in and week out in NFL division 4 - there's no equivalent hurling team to that, a side that's getting scutched even in their league.

Maybe that's because Kilkenny is the only county that treats football with contempt while there are plenty of counties that treat hurling with contempt relative to football, leading to more hurling teams at the same rubbish level

There's no shame in trying and failing miserably.
The shame is in not trying to begin with.
Kilkenny are clearly not trying.
At all.
They're basically saying 'Leave us alone or we'll turn every football fixture you give us into an absolute travesty'.
Plenty of counties are useless at hurling.
They still make the effort though.

Name the counties that don't then.

I was in the Carrickdale a number of years back and there were a few teams booked in for the weekend, Derry hurlers were playing down the country so they were booked in and KK footballers were there also, they were playing in the National league the next day.  I was up from Cork for the weekend with a team.  Anyway, Saturday evening and we were sitting in the lounge having a pint, the games were on teh next day.  All the Derry lads were sipping their blackcurrant and water etc etc, we were having a few pints but not too many as we were out the next day but it was a bit of craic.  We got talking with the KK lads, they were locked, the noght before the game, they were asking us which was the best place to go to Newry or Dundalk, they were on the total rip.  It wasn't just the players, all the officials were at it too.  leave them at it I say, its a fecking amatuer sport and they will never win anything at it, they fulfill fixtures and give the lads who are not good enough at hurling the chance to wear the county jersey.  the players themselves knew that they were never going to win too many games and they were happy enough to do what they were at.  Sure we know there's one team in those colours doing well enough in football anyway, why get people mixed up ;)

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2012, 10:35:54 AM
Leitrim crap at? well make your own mind up on that, not bad at Scor mind your ;)

Not too many Leitrim posters on this site, though they do have some supporters that come on and defend them

What is it with you & Leitrim did you get a bad pint in Mohill one time? i remember last year you compared Leitrim's footballers to Kilkenny  ::)

As Loneshark said above "Kilkenny footballers are getting hammered week in and week out in NFL division 4 - there's no equivalent hurling team to that" Where not a hurling county ourselves but if you go to places like Four roads,Athleague etc it's hurling mad i don't think there's a town or village in Kilkenny with any real interest in football.

Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2012, 11:49:58 AM
Cavan don't have a team in the NHL. Surely that's worse?

If they did would they ship the same type of beatings Kilkenny do in the football league? out of interest what are Cavan's recent hurling minor,U-21 results??

Point being Ross4life. If a county team (Kilkenny) have a team in the league and a county team (Cavan) don't, who's worse? Are they the same?

I've no problem with Leitrim at all, I'm only using them as a county that's poor at hurling and don't seem to put any effort into it. I'll happily use Cavan from now on ;)

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2012, 02:31:33 PM
Point being Ross4life. If a county team (Kilkenny) have a team in the league and a county team (Cavan) don't, who's worse? Are they the same?

I've no problem with Leitrim at all, I'm only using them as a county that's poor at hurling and don't seem to put any effort into it. I'll happily use Cavan from now on ;)

Good i won't need to defend little Leitrim anymore so  ;) I guess we won't know how bad Cavan are at Hurling until they re-enter the NHL.

Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2012, 02:11:06 PM
Cavan don't have a team in the NHL. Surely that's worse?

That's debatable. What I do remember is that when Cavan pulled out of adult level, they had only two clubs playing and they said they were going to concentrate on hurling at underage level and build it up from there. If they didn't have adult players with any interest in playing for the county, and they did actually start trying to develop hurling among 10-14 year olds, then I'd say that's fair enough. If that was just words and they just ignored hurling, then of course Cavan stand indicted just as much as Kilkenny - all the more so if the players wanted to keep competing.

Equally, if Kilkenny county board are creating the conditions for a county team to play and no players are coming forward, then I'd actually be inclined to let them off the hook. The concern here is that this isn't what's happening - that there are players who would like to develop and play the game for their county, but that there is no organised training, teams are cobbled together the night before, and any attempt to try and play is actively stifled. Then the county board claims that because nobody wants to fight the county board and make it happen anyway, there is no interest. On another level, the county board wants to get whatever central grants are available for "fielding" football teams, so they make sure fifteen players take the field, but incur no expense beyond the washing of the kit.

Everybody has their own anecdotes. For example, in the Offaly hurling heartlands, there is a similar attitude to the sport of football in a lot of clubs. Kinnitty recently gave a bye in a Junior B championship semi final after winning several games to get that far. The management claimed that they didn't want to risk injuries a week before a county hurling semi final. Then they trained in bad light during the week when their floodlights failed. Now which activity carried the greater risk of injury? All they did was cause a huge row in the club as they had several players who played football only, and those lads had to give a walkover in the biggest game of the year, and the wound was still festering when they went on the field and took an unmerciful hiding from Coolderry.

In another very strong hurling club, quite literally one man has kept football going. When they started to do too well, the club came up with a nonsense reason to try and get him suspended. Just to be clear, his own club suspended him, not the county board or anyone else. Basically he took an under 14 football team to play a round robin match against another club, when both teams were out of the running for the championship. His side had fourteen player, and another young lad from a nearby hurling club who was looking to become a permission player but hadn't yet been cleared. The manager went to the opposition manager and explained, offering to play the game as a challenge and forfeit the points. The opposition said no, play for the points since it was all academic, neither of them were going to win anything anyway. The illegal player was insured, and nothing was really at stake, and his club lost the game. Cue a twelve month suspension, despite no objections from anywhere. 

The same club looked like making a real run in the football one year, so the hurling manager gave ultimatums to all the hurlers not to play football. Note he didn't give the same ultimatums to the guys that he knew would pick football, or who would be strong enough mentally to tell him where to put his ultimatum - it was only given to the lads who preferred hurling and who were replaceable. Some principle that.


The point I'm making is that nobody is blameless here and to a certain degree, this attitude to be found in every county in Ireland. However that doesn't excuse it and much like a similar lengthy debate we had on this board, the fact that the rules or indeed the spirit of the game is not being universally applied is no excuse to ignore the ethos of the association entirely. But again, maybe Kilkenny people are right and you could put in place a perfectly good setup and no-one would play. That's why I'd like to test out the theory before declaring that the KCB are out of order. 


By the way the whole idea of no forum for the county to play in is nonsense. There is a Junior football championship. I'm sure their clubs would be perfectly welcome in Carlow leagues, or Wexford Leagues, or wherever, much like happens in Ulster hurling. Even amalgamated teams if they wanted. Last year O'Loughlin Gaels won division 5 of the Féile, beating the best teams from Leitrim and Clare in the knockout stages. You can't tell me that there isn't enough there to be working with, or that those lads have no interest in football, if the county genuinely wanted to develop. Neither can you tell me that O'Loughlin Gaels, who played in an All Ireland Club final the same year, are sacrificing their hurling. Something here doesn't add up, that much is clear.

Great, so are we (the posters) in agreement that Kilkenny, and everybody (bar Kilkenny hurling folk) on here,  want Kilkenny to try harder in football. and the likes of Cavan to try just as hard in hurling?

Which means that this is a wasted thread.

Lone Shark, youre right about Kilkenny having good prospects in football at underage, if my own club would encourage our best underage hurlers of the past 10 years to concentrate on hurling I have no doubt that we would be challenging yearly for senior hurling honours and possibly be appearing in club All Ireland semi finals.
I heard Shefflin,McCormick, DJ and a right few other Kilkenny lads were decent footballers with DJ having played county.

Clubs and counties generally have a main code, don't hammer them for it, don't say that one county is bad and another isn't if they are both doing the same, if not worse in Cavan's case.

Quote from: Lone Shark on March 01, 2012, 10:32:04 AM
Comparisons with hurling are not apt for one simple reason - you can work hard at your hurling and still struggle to make inroads, it's a very, very difficult art. Football, by and large, isn't.

I agree with all you say, LS, except that bit. It's ould hurling-mystique propaganda that seems to have seeped into the soul of the GAA to the extent that it's accepted as dogma. Bating a ball with a stick is just as fundamental a human activity as kicking one with your foot.

To debunk the "hurling is very hard, but any ould fool can kick a ball" myth, I'm offering the following challenge that I offered here before that wasn't taken up.

I've never played a game of hurling in my life. I've hit a ball with a hurley maybe fifty times. That was a tennis ball. I've hit a sliotar maybe five times. And all 55 times, I held the hurley the wrong way, like a golf club. I'm still willing to have a competition with any hurler, of any age and level of proficiency, who hasn't played competitive football at any level, as I haven't played any hurling. I'll take twenty 45s with a hurley and he'll take twenty 45s with a football. I'll lay €100 at 2/1 that I'll score more points than him.

How about 20 45s versus 20 '20s'. That's the equivalent in terms of physical strength. Or maybe a 45 versus a 65.  Maybe a more accurate skills test is ask a non footballer to solo the ball around 10 cones, and count how many times he loses control. Repeat the dose with a non hurler trying to solo a sliothar. I think I'd take your money.

I'm primarily a football man, with a decent bit of hurling as well, and I think the basics in hurling are that little bit harder than in football, but to be really good at either you need to be very highly skilled.

However, I think this is a bit of a straw man, because I suspect that what LS is hinting at is that it is probably easier to appear 'competitive' in football than hurling due to the vagaries of the two sports. The gap in quality might be as pronounced, but if you bring an ultra defensive strategy to football, against a good team, you stand a good chance of losing by less than 20 points. If you do the same against a good hurling team, you could lose by over 30, because goals are easier to score in hurling, and a sliotar travels further than a football, espcially when a good player strikes it.

In reality you are not competitive in either case, but the appearance is a lot different.

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 03:41:06 PM

Quote from: Lone Shark on March 01, 2012, 10:32:04 AM
Comparisons with hurling are not apt for one simple reason - you can work hard at your hurling and still struggle to make inroads, it's a very, very difficult art. Football, by and large, isn't.

I agree with all you say, LS, except that bit. It's ould hurling-mystique propaganda that seems to have seeped into the soul of the GAA to the extent that it's accepted as dogma. Bating a ball with a stick is just as fundamental a human activity as kicking one with your foot.

To debunk the "hurling is very hard, but any ould fool can kick a ball" myth, I'm offering the following challenge that I offered here before that wasn't taken up.

I've never played a game of hurling in my life. I've hit a ball with a hurley maybe fifty times. That was a tennis ball. I've hit a sliotar maybe five times. And all 55 times, I held the hurley the wrong way, like a golf club. I'm still willing to have a competition with any hurler, of any age and level of proficiency, who hasn't played competitive football at any level, as I haven't played any hurling. I'll take twenty 45s with a hurley and he'll take twenty 45s with a football. I'll lay €100 at 2/1 that I'll score more points than him.

Hurling from the 65 and football from the 45, that's how it works Hardy FFS  'SHAKES HEAD'

By the way Hardy, when you say '45s' in hurling, do you mean with the roll lift as well, or are you talking about striking it out of your hand? Because if you mean the roll lift, then you're codding yourself.

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 03:46:53 PM
How about 20 45s versus 20 '20s'. That's the equivalent in terms of physical strength. Or maybe a 45 versus a 65. 

I thought the contention was that hurling is harder than football. Now you want to handicap the footballer playing hurling to give the hurler playing football a chance of competing? Doesn't that make my point?

Quote
Maybe a more accurate skills test is ask a non footballer to solo the ball around 10 cones, and count how many times he loses control. Repeat the dose with a non hurler trying to solo a sliothar. I think I'd take your money.

Notwithstanding my point above, my intention wasn't to select a skill that's easier in hurling than football. I'd be quite happy to take on your solo challenge at even money. (I've never understood the raving about the ability to run with the sliotar on the hurley. It's not hard.) Or I'll take 65s against 45s for even money. Or how about target practice - say into a ten-metre circle from 30 metres away? I'd still be confident of leaving with the money.

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 03:56:23 PM
By the way Hardy, when you say '45s' in hurling, do you mean with the roll lift as well, or are you talking about striking it out of your hand? Because if you mean the roll lift, then you're codding yourself.

There you go again.  :P  What will the hurler playing football have to do that's equivalent to the roll lift?

The point is the technical skill Hardy. Everyone I know can kick a ball off the ground. Leg strength might vary, but even gobdaws can toe punt the ball out of their way. That constitutes 'taking' a free.

If you are telling me that it is as easy to lift a sliotar and strike a free in the proper motion, then I'm afraid you're raving man. :)

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:00:24 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 03:56:23 PM
By the way Hardy, when you say '45s' in hurling, do you mean with the roll lift as well, or are you talking about striking it out of your hand? Because if you mean the roll lift, then you're codding yourself.

There you go again.  :P  What will the hurler playing football have to do that's equivalent to the roll lift?

There is no equivalent in the skills challenge you are asking for because the skill is way easier in football. QED :)

Actually I think I'd prefer a side bet, as the two of ye are flaking away out on the pitch that neither of ye would score 1.

(However if we move the challenge into the 20 metre line, I reckon the hurler would get 5 or 6 at least, you'd still be swatting flies).

Hardy who's making it easier? You said taking 45's in Football,  you set it down or you can take it out of your hands. In hurling its a jab or roll lift for a 65. If you can hit one over the bar I'll give you the money myself, providing it's true you have only hit a sliotar 50 times

Edit:

If we hit them with our weaker side from the 45 would that count be a bet to see which is more technically difficult? How many kicks would you score from off your weaker boot?

By the way, I don't like hurling snobs either, and I'm trying to spread the football gospel in North Tipp, so unless I've been brainwashed, I think I'm being objective here :D

AZ - The debate is about whether hurling is harder than football skill-wise. I've suggested three or four different areas where I'm happy to take on hurlers in roughly equivalent activities as between the codes - accurate delivery, ball control, etc. So far, you've only latched onto the lift and strike as an area where you think a footballer might struggle. I don't know - I've never done it, but again, it doesn't look that hard. But, with respect, I think you're making my point. I'm not asking hurlers to try a particularly specialist football skill to prove my point. How about a jab-lift at pace or a score with the right foot from the right-hand sideline?

Anyway, to make my point and accept your challenge, let's both take our frees from the hand. I'm still offering 2/1 at 45 metres, even money if you still want to handicap me by 20 metres to give your hurler an even chance at the supposedly simple game of football.


Milltown Row - special pleading too. You're struggling to look for things that are specialist in hurling to pit against skills that are standard in football.


My challenges (four or five you can select from) stand.

My point Hardy, not the point you are trying to make me make ( :P) is that the BASIC skills in hurling are harder than the BASIC skills in football. A pickup versus a roll lift (never mind a jab lift). A catch versus a catch, a strike from the hand versus a kick from the hand. I can tell you that I have seen kids struggle far more with the basics in hurling than the basics in football.

I have already said that to be good in either requires a lot of skill, and some of the advanced skills in football would flummox a novice, no doubt about it. The Dummy Solo, the outside of the foot pass, kicking a score straight on, passing 30 yards to a mans chest, etc etc. Believe me, I appreciate those skills :D

As I said, I think LS' original point was not about this at all though, he's just saying that it is easier to keep a game closer in football (because it's harder to run up big scores in the big ball game, especially against a massed defence).

In your mythical challenge, if you are allowing yourself to strike out of the hand from 65 metres, I think you might well make more than a lad kicking out of his hands from 45. The leg strength would not be there for someone who has not played football. However your test there is as much about the lads strength as his technique.

What about Nicky English - he could play both at the same time.
Its a fair debate between knowledgeable men of varying degrees, although I think its near time for the GAA board poc-cic fada.  Can someone take Hardy up on his offer.     

If I knew a hurler that never played football I would. but I don't live in Kilkenny :D And actually that's kind of what Miltown Row and the other lads are saying. I bet there are far more GAA members in football counties that have never even held a hurl, than hurlers who have never kicked a football. (Kilkenny notwithstanding).

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:10:29 PM
I don't know - I've never done it, but again, it doesn't look that hard.

"If I had ever learnt, I should have been a great proficient" - Lady Catherine de Bourgh on playing the piano, Pride and Prejudice

what about a flute?

Can I come and watch!

As someone who dabbled in both codes in the days of black and white, Hardy, if your level of skill and experience at hurling is as described, to be honest, I don't think you'd score any points even from the 45.  I'd say the hurler has a better chance of fluking a 45???

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
My point Hardy, not the point you are trying to make me make ( :P) is that the BASIC skills in hurling are harder than the BASIC skills in football. A pickup versus a roll lift (never mind a jab lift). A catch versus a catch, a strike from the hand versus a kick from the hand. I can tell you that I have seen kids struggle far more with the basics in hurling than the basics in football.

I have already said that to be good in either requires a lot of skill, and some of the advanced skills in football would flummox a novice, no doubt about it. The Dummy Solo, the outside of the foot pass, kicking a score straight on, passing 30 yards to a mans chest, etc etc. Believe me, I appreciate those skills :D

As I said, I think LS' original point was not about this at all though, he's just saying that it is easier to keep a game closer in football (because it's harder to run up big scores in the big ball game, especially against a massed defence).

In your mythical challenge, if you are allowing yourself to strike out of the hand from 65 metres, I think you might well make more than a lad kicking out of his hands from 45. The leg strength would not be there for someone who has not played football. However your test there is as much about the lads strength as his technique.

And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
My point Hardy, not the point you are trying to make me make ( :P) is that the BASIC skills in hurling are harder than the BASIC skills in football. A pickup versus a roll lift (never mind a jab lift). A catch versus a catch, a strike from the hand versus a kick from the hand. I can tell you that I have seen kids struggle far more with the basics in hurling than the basics in football.

I have already said that to be good in either requires a lot of skill, and some of the advanced skills in football would flummox a novice, no doubt about it. The Dummy Solo, the outside of the foot pass, kicking a score straight on, passing 30 yards to a mans chest, etc etc. Believe me, I appreciate those skills :D

As I said, I think LS' original point was not about this at all though, he's just saying that it is easier to keep a game closer in football (because it's harder to run up big scores in the big ball game, especially against a massed defence).

In your mythical challenge, if you are allowing yourself to strike out of the hand from 65 metres, I think you might well make more than a lad kicking out of his hands from 45. The leg strength would not be there for someone who has not played football. However your test there is as much about the lads strength as his technique.

And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

I think you're off your rocker :D

(http://www.theipinionsjournal.com/uploaded_images/gonefishing-716501.jpg)

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:35:01 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
My point Hardy, not the point you are trying to make me make ( :P ) is that the BASIC skills in hurling are harder than the BASIC skills in football. A pickup versus a roll lift (never mind a jab lift). A catch versus a catch, a strike from the hand versus a kick from the hand. I can tell you that I have seen kids struggle far more with the basics in hurling than the basics in football.

I have already said that to be good in either requires a lot of skill, and some of the advanced skills in football would flummox a novice, no doubt about it. The Dummy Solo, the outside of the foot pass, kicking a score straight on, passing 30 yards to a mans chest, etc etc. Believe me, I appreciate those skills :D

As I said, I think LS' original point was not about this at all though, he's just saying that it is easier to keep a game closer in football (because it's harder to run up big scores in the big ball game, especially against a massed defence).

In your mythical challenge, if you are allowing yourself to strike out of the hand from 65 metres, I think you might well make more than a lad kicking out of his hands from 45. The leg strength would not be there for someone who has not played football. However your test there is as much about the lads strength as his technique.

And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

I think you're off your rocker :D

As Harry Hill might say, there's only one way to find out. But you don't seem to be up for it. Already I'm seeing excuses about not being able to find a challenger.
:P

Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2012, 04:36:54 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
My point Hardy, not the point you are trying to make me make ( :P) is that the BASIC skills in hurling are harder than the BASIC skills in football. A pickup versus a roll lift (never mind a jab lift). A catch versus a catch, a strike from the hand versus a kick from the hand. I can tell you that I have seen kids struggle far more with the basics in hurling than the basics in football.

I have already said that to be good in either requires a lot of skill, and some of the advanced skills in football would flummox a novice, no doubt about it. The Dummy Solo, the outside of the foot pass, kicking a score straight on, passing 30 yards to a mans chest, etc etc. Believe me, I appreciate those skills :D

As I said, I think LS' original point was not about this at all though, he's just saying that it is easier to keep a game closer in football (because it's harder to run up big scores in the big ball game, especially against a massed defence).

In your mythical challenge, if you are allowing yourself to strike out of the hand from 65 metres, I think you might well make more than a lad kicking out of his hands from 45. The leg strength would not be there for someone who has not played football. However your test there is as much about the lads strength as his technique.

And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

Jump in goals against Henry Shefflin and I'll jump in goals against Eoghan O'Gara.

That's not fair Hardstation. You'd be f*cked getting all the balls kicked wide.

Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2012, 04:36:54 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
My point Hardy, not the point you are trying to make me make ( :P ) is that the BASIC skills in hurling are harder than the BASIC skills in football. A pickup versus a roll lift (never mind a jab lift). A catch versus a catch, a strike from the hand versus a kick from the hand. I can tell you that I have seen kids struggle far more with the basics in hurling than the basics in football.

I have already said that to be good in either requires a lot of skill, and some of the advanced skills in football would flummox a novice, no doubt about it. The Dummy Solo, the outside of the foot pass, kicking a score straight on, passing 30 yards to a mans chest, etc etc. Believe me, I appreciate those skills :D

As I said, I think LS' original point was not about this at all though, he's just saying that it is easier to keep a game closer in football (because it's harder to run up big scores in the big ball game, especially against a massed defence).

In your mythical challenge, if you are allowing yourself to strike out of the hand from 65 metres, I think you might well make more than a lad kicking out of his hands from 45. The leg strength would not be there for someone who has not played football. However your test there is as much about the lads strength as his technique.

And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

Jump in goals against Henry Shefflin and I'll jump in goals against Eoghan O'Gara.

Now you're talking about two people who can't play football.

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:39:47 PM

Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2012, 04:36:54 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
My point Hardy, not the point you are trying to make me make ( :P ) is that the BASIC skills in hurling are harder than the BASIC skills in football. A pickup versus a roll lift (never mind a jab lift). A catch versus a catch, a strike from the hand versus a kick from the hand. I can tell you that I have seen kids struggle far more with the basics in hurling than the basics in football.

I have already said that to be good in either requires a lot of skill, and some of the advanced skills in football would flummox a novice, no doubt about it. The Dummy Solo, the outside of the foot pass, kicking a score straight on, passing 30 yards to a mans chest, etc etc. Believe me, I appreciate those skills :D

As I said, I think LS' original point was not about this at all though, he's just saying that it is easier to keep a game closer in football (because it's harder to run up big scores in the big ball game, especially against a massed defence).

In your mythical challenge, if you are allowing yourself to strike out of the hand from 65 metres, I think you might well make more than a lad kicking out of his hands from 45. The leg strength would not be there for someone who has not played football. However your test there is as much about the lads strength as his technique.

And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

Jump in goals against Henry Shefflin and I'll jump in goals against Eoghan O'Gara.

Now you're talking about two people who can't play football.

In fairness I think Shefflin is a decent footballer, or was before he stopped playing.

(I meant 30 metres, not 3 metres back up there.)

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:41:30 PM
(I meant 30 metres, not 3 metres back up there.)

I guessed that. I still think you're off your rocker :D

When the ash trees run out they'll be all using tennis racquets anyway.  I find Hardys' posts are getting us to question our preconceptions about the difficulties in the skills of hurling.  They really don't sound too bad - in many ways his campaign to remove the aura and mystique from the "game of the bellied man" could lead to improved uptake of the game from interested 6 year olds who may have been previously put off by the stories of the savage-hurling-from- two year-olds from Kilkenny.

Back to the original point, I see this on Twitter :

QuoteThe Kilkenny U21 football team that lost so heavily to Louth last night never once trained together reports the Kilkenny People #gaa

What's the point. Who are they trying to fool? I feel sorry for football people in Kilkenny, and despite the hurling mafia there has to be at least 30 people in Kilkenny that would love to play county football for them, and to make a decent attempt at doing so.

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM
And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

I'd travel across the country to see this. I really would.

Quote from: rrhf on March 01, 2012, 04:43:29 PM
When the ash trees run out they'll be all using tennis racquets anyway.  I find Hardys' posts are getting us to question our preconceptions about the difficulties in the skills of hurling.  They really don't sound too bad - in many ways his campaign to remove the aura and mystique from the "game of the bellied man" could lead to improved uptake of the game from interested 6 year olds who may have been previously put off by the stories of the savage-hurling-from- two year-olds from Kilkenny.

Beneath the sarcasm, you may have a point there. Hurling should not be set on a pedestal where lads are afraid to try it. Look at how Hardy is embracing it! Mind you at 6 years of age they are not being put off by stories of how difficult it is, it's because there's no structure or support in place in the clubs to get them to try it. (In non hurling areas).

Quote from: deiseach on March 01, 2012, 04:44:46 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM
And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

I'd travel across the country to see this. I really would.

It wouldn't be worth the trip. What I'll be doing won't be exceptional and the hurler will be even worse.

Quote from: deiseach on March 01, 2012, 04:44:46 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM
And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

I'd travel across the country to see this. I really would.

Forget the golf outing this could be the GAA Board event of the year!! 

To add a bit of spice can it be in Crossmaglen's field with a couple of helicopters buzzing about??

Who's going to pay my expenses?

I think it should be in Nowlan Park, with a couple of Kilkenny officials buzzing about to hear Hardy saying 'Shure this' whiff 'is fecking' whiff 'easy'. Whiff. 'And I can' 'whiff' 'score whenever I want'. Whiff.

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:41:30 PM
(I meant 30 metres, not 3 metres back up there.)

Unless you're starting with the sliothar on the hurley, even 3 metres would be impressive for someone who has never struck a sliothar

By the way, and by way of developing my argument, compare camogie and "ladies'" football. Women can manage camogie OK but it's a painful thing to watch them trying to play football.

Im certainly in I would love to see Hardy try "a hook" which to non hurling folk can be described as "almost an act of spooning with the sticks"

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:48:18 PM
It wouldn't be worth the trip. What I'll be doing won't be exceptional and the hurler will be even worse.

Let's get this clear. How much hurling have you played?

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
I think it should be in Nowlan Park, with a couple of Kilkenny officials buzzing about to hear Hardy saying 'Shure this' whiff 'is fecking' whiff 'easy'. Whiff. 'And I can' 'whiff' 'score whenever I want'. Whiff.

Quote from: deiseach on March 01, 2012, 04:51:52 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:41:30 PM
(I meant 30 metres, not 3 metres back up there.)

Unless you're starting with the sliothar on the hurley, even 3 metres would be impressive for someone who has never struck a sliothar

No more than Lady Kate's observation and, of course, my assertions this is speculation. But I'm backing up my assertions with money. 

Quote from: rrhf on March 01, 2012, 04:53:32 PM
Im certainly in I would love to see Hardy try "a hook" which to non hurling folk can be described as "almost an act of spooning with the sticks"

Another thing that makes hurling easier. If you try to stop an opponent striking the ball by grabbing his foot in football, you could get sent off.

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:56:38 PM

Quote from: rrhf on March 01, 2012, 04:53:32 PM
Im certainly in I would love to see Hardy try "a hook" which to non hurling folk can be described as "almost an act of spooning with the sticks"

Another thing that makes hurling easier. If you try to stop an opponent striking the ball by grabbing his foot in football, you could get sent off.

And you were doing so well. You nearly had deiseach there.

Quote from: deiseach on March 01, 2012, 04:53:54 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:48:18 PM
It wouldn't be worth the trip. What I'll be doing won't be exceptional and the hurler will be even worse.

Let's get this clear. How much hurling have you played?

As I said, none. I've hit a ball with a stick often enough to know, having taken 45s in football, that I can do the former more accurately over that distance than I can the latter.

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:57:58 PM
And you were doing so well. You nearly had deiseach there.

Aye, I'm bored now. So how about that Dirk Kuyt, eh AZ?

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:01:11 PM
The point is the technical skill Hardy. Everyone I know can kick a ball off the ground. Leg strength might vary, but even gobdaws can toe punt the ball out of their way. That constitutes 'taking' a free.

If you are telling me that it is as easy to lift a sliotar and strike a free in the proper motion, then I'm afraid you're raving man. :)

If football's so easy how come Kilkenny are solid useless at it?

This could replace the Poc Fada...and the Railway Cup!!

I bet you he could hurl.

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 05:01:54 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:01:11 PM
The point is the technical skill Hardy. Everyone I know can kick a ball off the ground. Leg strength might vary, but even gobdaws can toe punt the ball out of their way. That constitutes 'taking' a free.

If you are telling me that it is as easy to lift a sliotar and strike a free in the proper motion, then I'm afraid you're raving man. :)

If football's so easy how come Kilkenny are solid useless at it?

If you show me where I said that, I'll happily retract :D

Are ye all grumpy in Meath because of last night?

Dirk who? I think he plays a game that we can all agree is easy.

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 05:03:15 PM
Dirk who? I think he plays a game that we can all agree is easy.

Not on the eye though. Dirk or the game at times.

Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2012, 04:48:30 PM

Quote from: deiseach on March 01, 2012, 04:44:46 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:34:19 PM
And my point is that I don't accept the basic premise (elevated to dogma) that hurling is inherently harder than football. Even if that's not what LS was saying, it's what I thought he was saying that prompted my response. And I've proposed a series of skill tests that I think would prove the point. I'm happy to eliminate the strength element and concentrate on basic skills and still maintain that I'll get more sliotars into a two-metre circles from 3 metres than the hurler will footballs and that I'll run faster than him soloing a sliotar than he will with a football or dodge around cones better than he will, etc. I'll do a running lift with a hurley at least as successfully and fast as he will toe-lift a football. I'll pass a sliotar any distance as accurately as he will a football.

And I'll connect with more overhead pulls than he will with bicycle kicks!

I'd travel across the country to see this. I really would.

Forget the golf outing this could be the GAA Board event of the year!! 

To add a bit of spice can it be in Crossmaglen's field with a couple of helicopters buzzing about??

'Who's the best man on gaaboard'.
It'd be like the highland games but with more arguing.

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 05:01:54 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:01:11 PM
The point is the technical skill Hardy. Everyone I know can kick a ball off the ground. Leg strength might vary, but even gobdaws can toe punt the ball out of their way. That constitutes 'taking' a free.

If you are telling me that it is as easy to lift a sliotar and strike a free in the proper motion, then I'm afraid you're raving man. :)

If football's so easy how come Kilkenny are solid useless at it?

Sure even Meath, where we hardly ever saw a hurley can win the Tommy Makem cup, or whatever it is. Hurling? Simple!

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 05:05:11 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 05:01:54 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:01:11 PM
The point is the technical skill Hardy. Everyone I know can kick a ball off the ground. Leg strength might vary, but even gobdaws can toe punt the ball out of their way. That constitutes 'taking' a free.

If you are telling me that it is as easy to lift a sliotar and strike a free in the proper motion, then I'm afraid you're raving man. :)

If football's so easy how come Kilkenny are solid useless at it?

Sure even Meath, where we hardly ever saw a hurley can win the Tommy Makem cup, or whatever it is. Hurling? Simple!

Some fine Meath hurlers down the years. Sure by what you're saying, you could be another one.

All I need is a bit of practice. But I can't find anyone (here anyway) to practice with.

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 05:07:54 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 05:05:11 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 05:01:54 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:01:11 PM
The point is the technical skill Hardy. Everyone I know can kick a ball off the ground. Leg strength might vary, but even gobdaws can toe punt the ball out of their way. That constitutes 'taking' a free.

If you are telling me that it is as easy to lift a sliotar and strike a free in the proper motion, then I'm afraid you're raving man. :)

If football's so easy how come Kilkenny are solid useless at it?

Sure even Meath, where we hardly ever saw a hurley can win the Tommy Makem cup, or whatever it is. Hurling? Simple!

Some fine Meath hurlers down the years. Sure by what you're saying, you could be another one.

Is Pat Potterton still giving it a schkelp??

I have a hurley that I use as a pretend gun when I'm playing 'army' up the fields.

http://www.hoganstand.com/Meath/MessagePage.aspx?TopicID=45931

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 05:10:15 PM
I have a hurley that I use as a pretend gun when I'm playing 'army' up the fields.

Meath men are more into the hand to hand combat I thought? :D

Pat'd nearly be as ould as meself. Maybe he'll take me on in the football challenge.

Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2012, 05:12:06 PM
http://www.hoganstand.com/Meath/MessagePage.aspx?TopicID=45931

Hardy, I will be very disappointed if you don't turn out to be Tippy Clynch.

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 05:10:15 PM
I have a hurley that I use as a pretend gun when I'm playing 'army' up the fields.

I probably did more damage using it that way than I ever did on the hurling field.

If Jim Mc Guinness tried his hand at the hurling,you could end up with 15 men on deck chairs never leaving their own half pucking the puck at the goals in a shoot out. May the best pucker win.  Could suit the over 35s. 

In fairness to the Louth management it's a tricky one. You don't want to be telling your lads to go easy as such. Kilkenny wouldn't do that in hurling.

They also brought on subs, and subs will be trying to make a statement pushing for a place themselves, so what do you do?

Badger bating (with hurleys) is actually quite popular in Kilkenny.

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 06:59:33 PM
Badger bating (with hurleys) is actually quite popular in Kilkenny.

I know, I have been in Langtons on a Saturday night!

In Langtons, the badgers bate you.

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 05:08:43 PM
All I need is a bit of practice. But I can't find anyone (here anyway) to practice with.

Hardy you seem an honest bloke, why don't you this weekend blow off the cobwebs on your boots/hurl/ball and try it out for yourself.

Take ten 65's with the hurl (a size 5 ball ), out of your hands if ya like, see how many ya get over the bar, then take ten 45's with a football and see how many ya get.

I'll do the same, I'm at the club this Saturday, I will give it a go

Jaysus - leave the thread alone for half a day and look what happens.....

All I meant in my original point is that while you need to spend plenty of time preparing for football to prosper, a lot of that time is spent giving yourself the physique and the fitness to survive, something that doesn't require any God-given skills. If you have an athlete, you can make him into a footballer.

Equally, as AZ alluded to, if I get 12 men back into the scoring zone and make sure they don't foul, no matter how good you are, you'll struggle to run up a big scoring total. Since the scoring zone in hurling is half the field, that's not an option.

I agree completely about the whole demystification of hurling as a game you have to be born into - but on the other hand, there's no point ignoring the fact that it's still a game with a lot more unique skills to master than football.

we need to rope in defoe, young and pavlyuchenko to settle this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIwFUnV73x4

don't think they'd fare quite as well with a hurl and sliothar to be honest

;D

Quote from: Lone Shark on March 02, 2012, 06:32:05 AM
Jaysus - leave the thread alone for half a day and look what happens.....

All I meant in my original point is that while you need to spend plenty of time preparing for football to prosper, a lot of that time is spent giving yourself the physique and the fitness to survive, something that doesn't require any God-given skills. If you have an athlete, you can make him into a footballer.
Equally, as AZ alluded to, if I get 12 men back into the scoring zone and make sure they don't foul, no matter how good you are, you'll struggle to run up a big scoring total. Since the scoring zone in hurling is half the field, that's not an option.

I agree completely about the whole demystification of hurling as a game you have to be born into - but on the other hand, there's no point ignoring the fact that it's still a game with a lot more unique skills to master than football.

Not to go into all Hardy's points again, but I have real issues with this line which is often trotted out. It's nonsense. I've seen plenty of fit men who can't do the very basics of football skills. You can train a Donkey to run, you can't train it to play football.

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 05:05:11 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 05:01:54 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 01, 2012, 04:01:11 PM
The point is the technical skill Hardy. Everyone I know can kick a ball off the ground. Leg strength might vary, but even gobdaws can toe punt the ball out of their way. That constitutes 'taking' a free.

If you are telling me that it is as easy to lift a sliotar and strike a free in the proper motion, then I'm afraid you're raving man. :)

If football's so easy how come Kilkenny are solid useless at it?

Sure even Meath, where we hardly ever saw a hurley can win the Tommy Makem cup, or whatever it is. Hurling? Simple!

Sure it took a hurling man to teach Meath how to play football Hardy.

Quote from: Bill Haven on March 02, 2012, 08:10:36 AM
we need to rope in defoe, young and pavlyuchenko to settle this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIwFUnV73x4

don't think they'd fare quite as well with a hurl and sliothar to be honest

;D

They are professional "footballers", I'd say a professional Golfer, Lacrosse Player or Hockey player would have no problems mastering Hurling's basic skills.

People love this romantic idea around hurling..

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 02, 2012, 08:48:30 AM

Quote from: Lone Shark on March 02, 2012, 06:32:05 AM
Jaysus - leave the thread alone for half a day and look what happens.....

All I meant in my original point is that while you need to spend plenty of time preparing for football to prosper, a lot of that time is spent giving yourself the physique and the fitness to survive, something that doesn't require any God-given skills. If you have an athlete, you can make him into a footballer.
Equally, as AZ alluded to, if I get 12 men back into the scoring zone and make sure they don't foul, no matter how good you are, you'll struggle to run up a big scoring total. Since the scoring zone in hurling is half the field, that's not an option.

I agree completely about the whole demystification of hurling as a game you have to be born into - but on the other hand, there's no point ignoring the fact that it's still a game with a lot more unique skills to master than football.

Not to go into all Hardy's points again, but I have real issues with this line which is often trotted out. It's nonsense. I've seen plenty of fit men who can't do the very basics of football skills. You can train a Donkey to run, you can't train it to play football.

Don't get me wrong - if you have fifteen athletes with no skill you'll get nowhere. But equally there are a lot of players out there with no great level of skill and they're making it as half backs or box to box midfielders. Of course you need a Brogan/Cooper/O'Neill character to take scores, but if you have two or three of them, you can do a lot with a pack of willing workhorses behind them.

It's fecking ridiculous to compare the sports, completely different dynamics in each game which require completely different types of players. 

What I would say is that you can coach anyone to play football to a level, and conversely you can coach anyone to play hurling to a level, I even lined out once in a hurling match with no previous experience and I wasn't out of place(albeit it at junior B level).  However, I have found that if you really want to improve your average Joe who has played very little football it can be very difficult and very frustarting to get them to the level that you think they should be at for the level that they are playing at.  Anyone can kick a ball, not everyone can kick it right.  Everyone can hand pass a ball, not everyone can do it right.  As for teaching lads movement etc that is a whole different ball game. 

Yeah two separate sports and no need say which is harder or best, personal choice at the end of the day. Some people like cricket some people love rugby, others hate it and don't see were the skill is involved in either of them.

Though on your point of different types of players BC1 might be slightly wrong, we are a dual club that depend on players who play both, generally our better players are dual players, often county players too boot.

Having played both I'll take hurling everytime, as a juvenile I played right through to senior and enjoyed it played in a county minor final while still under 16 (well bate that day >:() I just got more enjoyment out of hurling, less success but sure

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2012, 09:49:01 AM
Yeah two separate sports and no need say which is harder or best, personal choice at the end of the day. Some people like cricket some people love rugby, others hate it and don't see were the skill is involved in either of them.

Though on your point of different types of players BC1 might be slightly wrong, we are a dual club that depend on players who play both, generally our better players are dual players, often county players too boot.
Having played both I'll take hurling everytime, as a juvenile I played right through to senior and enjoyed it played in a county minor final while still under 16 (well bate that day >:() I just got more enjoyment out of hurling, less success but sure

Or could that be that they are generally better performers who are training 5-6 times a week, who look after themselves better, therefore pushing themselves up to county level, and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they are dual players?

Quote from: Lone Shark on March 02, 2012, 09:22:37 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 02, 2012, 08:48:30 AM

Quote from: Lone Shark on March 02, 2012, 06:32:05 AM
Jaysus - leave the thread alone for half a day and look what happens.....

All I meant in my original point is that while you need to spend plenty of time preparing for football to prosper, a lot of that time is spent giving yourself the physique and the fitness to survive, something that doesn't require any God-given skills. If you have an athlete, you can make him into a footballer.
Equally, as AZ alluded to, if I get 12 men back into the scoring zone and make sure they don't foul, no matter how good you are, you'll struggle to run up a big scoring total. Since the scoring zone in hurling is half the field, that's not an option.

I agree completely about the whole demystification of hurling as a game you have to be born into - but on the other hand, there's no point ignoring the fact that it's still a game with a lot more unique skills to master than football.

Not to go into all Hardy's points again, but I have real issues with this line which is often trotted out. It's nonsense. I've seen plenty of fit men who can't do the very basics of football skills. You can train a Donkey to run, you can't train it to play football.

Don't get me wrong - if you have fifteen athletes with no skill you'll get nowhere. But equally there are a lot of players out there with no great level of skill and they're making it as half backs or box to box midfielders. Of course you need a Brogan/Cooper/O'Neill character to take scores, but if you have two or three of them, you can do a lot with a pack of willing workhorses behind them.

You see I don't agree with this at all. We're a Div 3 side who thankfully has no shortage of players out this year. We're having turn outs at training of roughly 30-40 boys each night. All would be solid trainers and would be relatively fit at this stage of the year and should be going into the start of the season flying. But realistic hopes for this year would be midtable. We just don't have enough good footballers. It takes more than 3-4 good players to make a team successful. I honestly believe this myth of only needing two or three good footballers is put forward by people who have this romantic notion of hurling. A good football team needs the same good spine that a hurling team team needs.

Were you able to play at senior football level for the club?

Not sure if that was for me or not DK? But yeah I played senior level. Not any more tho.

( I'm now guessing that this might be for MR  :-X )

I completely agree there with trueblue that for any football team to be successful you need a very strong spine and your middle 8 have toe be strong footballers.  Sometimes people forget that just because someone is exceptionally fit and runs all day doesn't necessarily mean they are not good footballers to boot.  The romantic notion about hurling is akin to the Spillane notion of the greatness of the football played in the 70's and 80's.  If you look back at the "great" games played during that period there were as many poor kicks as there were good kicks and during the late 70's Kerry football was more tuned in to basketball than anything else with the "handpasses"(throws!). 

I actually think footballers have to be smarter and better at the basic skills than hurlers due to the increased level of tactics used in football.  FFS if you have a decent goalkeeper who can puck a ball 80 yards a good no 11 and a good 14 then all the keeper has to d is hit those two and have a load of fit, fast men around them to pick up the pieces.

You watch any hurling games BC1? goal keepers don't always launch the ball 80 yards!!! They pick out players be it on the 21, 45 or in midfield.

Your own goal keeper launches the ball as far as he can, most times it's to midfield, he catches the ball (or someone picks up the pieces ;)) and sends it into the FF line and they score, is football that easy also?

In hurling they also make runs off the ball looking for passes, use their heads to make space, clever hand passes to lads to run on to. No 'hurler' on here has mentioned it being romantic other than the football only brigade

Hurling is definitely the more difficult sport. I've played both and football is much easier to get the hang of, there's just more skills needed in hurling. I've always preferred to play football though, probably because it is easier and you don't need to work on it every day. To be a really good hurler you need to have a hurl in your hand every day, whereas footballs nearly like riding a bike, you can not touch leather for a year and come back and still be at a decent skill level, that's how I found it anyway although I was never great at either sport.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2012, 10:28:01 AM
You watch any hurling games BC1? goal keepers don't always launch the ball 80 yards!!! They pick out players be it on the 21, 45 or in midfield.

Your own goal keeper launches the ball as far as he can, most times it's to midfield, he catches the ball (or someone picks up the pieces ;)) and sends it into the FF line and they score, is football that easy also?

In hurling they also make runs off the ball looking for passes, use their heads to make space, clever hand passes to lads to run on to. No 'hurler' on here has mentioned it being romantic other than the football only brigade

Bullshit, make it simple and give the ball timber as far as possible, clever handpasses and smart runs are not necessary in hurling, KISS is the way forward.

Ok BC1 hurlers don't use tactics, skills and are not as smart as footballers :P

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 02, 2012, 10:51:50 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2012, 10:28:01 AM
You watch any hurling games BC1? goal keepers don't always launch the ball 80 yards!!! They pick out players be it on the 21, 45 or in midfield.

Your own goal keeper launches the ball as far as he can, most times it's to midfield, he catches the ball (or someone picks up the pieces ;)) and sends it into the FF line and they score, is football that easy also?

In hurling they also make runs off the ball looking for passes, use their heads to make space, clever hand passes to lads to run on to. No 'hurler' on here has mentioned it being romantic other than the football only brigade

Bullshit, make it simple and give the ball timber as far as possible, clever handpasses and smart runs are not necessary in hurling, KISS is the way forward.

An untrained eye watching a sport they know little about may not see too much tactics involved.

Just ask most people glued to a 6Nations rugby match from one year to the next and all they'll see is big men tackling each other, with the speedier ones passing the ball to one another with some lad stepping up once in a while to kick it.

I'd have a limited knowledge of gaelic football, played a bit at school, went to the odd Down game, watch games on RTE and admittedly wouldn't necessarily see the more intricate of tactics that lads who've grown up with football would see.

But watching a hurling game, I'd spot quite quickly the weakness' and strengths of both teams and how they were trying to exploit one another. In the first five minutes of the AI hurling final you could see that KK had picked out the Tipp right half back as a weakness, had Shefflin on him and delivered most balls out of defence in that direction. The Tipp half forward line were coming out very deep into midfield to leave space for Corbett and the other inside forwards, Big Hogan the KK centre back stayed in there to sweep up.

This wouldn't be uncommon in hurling and obviously can change as the game evolves. It isn't that these two teams turned up to 'give it a good lash' without any thought into tactics.

IMO Davy Fitzgerald was the Jim McGuinness of hurling as he packes out his defence, pretty futile in hurling as you can score from 90 yards out but thats for another day.

The c**k measuring debates of what's the better sport are futile IMO.

Quote from: johnneycool on March 02, 2012, 12:30:31 PM

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 02, 2012, 10:51:50 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2012, 10:28:01 AM
You watch any hurling games BC1? goal keepers don't always launch the ball 80 yards!!! They pick out players be it on the 21, 45 or in midfield.

Your own goal keeper launches the ball as far as he can, most times it's to midfield, he catches the ball (or someone picks up the pieces ;)) and sends it into the FF line and they score, is football that easy also?

In hurling they also make runs off the ball looking for passes, use their heads to make space, clever hand passes to lads to run on to. No 'hurler' on here has mentioned it being romantic other than the football only brigade

Bullshit, make it simple and give the ball timber as far as possible, clever handpasses and smart runs are not necessary in hurling, KISS is the way forward.

An untrained eye watching a sport they know little about may not see too much tactics involved.

Just ask most people glued to a 6Nations rugby match from one year to the next and all they'll see is big men tackling each other, with the speedier ones passing the ball to one another with some lad stepping up once in a while to kick it.

I'd have a limited knowledge of gaelic football, played a bit at school, went to the odd Down game, watch games on RTE and admittedly wouldn't necessarily see the more intricate of tactics that lads who've grown up with football would see.

But watching a hurling game, I'd spot quite quickly the weakness' and strengths of both teams and how they were trying to exploit one another. In the first five minutes of the AI hurling final you could see that KK had picked out the Tipp right half back as a weakness, had Shefflin on him and delivered most balls out of defence in that direction. The Tipp half forward line were coming out very deep into midfield to leave space for Corbett and the other inside forwards, Big Hogan the KK centre back stayed in there to sweep up.

This wouldn't be uncommon in hurling and obviously can change as the game evolves. It isn't that these two teams turned up to 'give it a good lash' without any thought into tactics.

IMO Davy Fitzgerald was the Jim McGuinness of hurling as he packes out his defence, pretty futile in hurling as you can score from 90 yards out but thats for another day.

The c**k measuring debates of what's the better sport are futile IMO.

But it's great craic though ;D

Quote from: Magicsponge on March 02, 2012, 10:51:01 AM
Hurling is definitely the more difficult sport. I've played both and football is much easier to get the hang of, there's just more skills needed in hurling. I've always preferred to play football though, probably because it is easier and you don't need to work on it every day. To be a really good hurler you need to have a hurl in your hand every day, whereas footballs nearly like riding a bike, you can not touch leather for a year and come back and still be at a decent skill level, that's how I found it anyway although I was never great at either sport.

Send a person who has never played a sport involving kicking a ball or hitting a ball with a stick .... say a decent basketballer  .... and see how long it will take them to kick a ball over the bar from their hands from 30 metres versus hit a sliothar over the bar from 40 metres.
I tried it one day about 15 years ago on a pitch in London ..... after an hour the basketball guy was managing an odd point with the hurl but hadn't even come close to getting to grips with 'kicking snow off a rope' let alone kicking the ball over the bar. It was actually my first time ever to have a hurl in my hand for more than a minute and i managed a good few points by the end of the hour.

Anyway, i'd agree that football is an easier sport to start playing cos you need to master very few of the basic skills to provide some value to your team once you are fit, strong and mobile.
However, to be an effective footballer who can catch and kick is in my view every bit as difficult a skill set to get to grips with as any skill set in hurling.  Some player have honed these skills to the extreme level, e.g.: Colm Cooper v Tommy Walsh ..... how can anyone possibly claim one is more skilled at their sport than the other.

My preference though .... nothing beats winning a kick-out high in the air, controlling the ball while bursting your way out of a group of players, soloing up the middle at pace while controlling the ball with 1 hand and holding off an opponent with the other and finally making the half yard of space for yourself to be able to curl a kick over the bar ..... magic

f**k all skill in football. All about fitness. Sure there is only about 4 boys kicks a ball in any team, the rest fist pass and run.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 02, 2012, 11:16:23 PM
f**k all skill in football. All about fitness. Sure there is only about 4 boys kicks a ball in any team, the rest fist pass and run.

Kilkenny seem to be finding it hard to master the skills anyway. Leinster Minor Football League result - Laois 6-15; Kilkenny 0-1.   This has really gone beyond a joke.

Just a 46 point defeat today.

people need to blow over about this. Des cahill has tommy carr on the radio yesterday, and they were arguing with the kilkenny chairman who had the decency to come on and listen to the shite talk and answer questions.

Tommy carr is a clown, fact, how does he get airtime. Yer man from kilkenny stood up well to him in fairness.

My view is that football is not in danger, and kilkenny is the only one out of 32 counties who are really bad at it. Hurling championship is split into 4 tiers, if kilkenny really had to beat any of the ulster or connaught teams (apart from galway) by 50 points i would bet they could easily.

As far as im concerned kilkenny should be allowed to be a law onto themselves, considering the greatness they bring to the table in hurling

I didn't hear Carr yesterday but he can't have spouted as much shite as you've just done. A law unto themselves because they are good hurlers FFS what rubbish.

Quote from: Zulu on March 04, 2012, 04:05:52 PM
I didn't hear Carr yesterday but he can't have spouted as much shite as you've just done. A law unto themselves because they are good hurlers FFS what rubbish.

Exactly, sure why don't we allow Cork to be "a law unto themselves" because their good at both.

Yes i stand by it. Hope ur not making a big deal out the 'law onto themselves' comment, i assume ur smart enough to get the general point. I'm a football man first and foremost, we dont have a hurling club. Kilkenny don't want to bother too much with football, so what? what is it to you

you have spouted plenty of shite on here before urself

what exactly was it that Carr said that you disagreed with? just wondering. I heard the whole thing and found it intriguing

are there no tiers in football? again just wondering

also,

I am pretty sure it is law 'unto' themselves. not sure what unto means

Quote from: Orchardman on March 04, 2012, 04:49:08 PM
Yes i stand by it. Hope ur not making a big deal out the 'law onto themselves' comment, i assume ur smart enough to get the general point. I'm a football man first and foremost, we dont have a hurling club. Kilkenny don't want to bother too much with football, so what? what is it to you

you have spouted plenty of shite on here before urself

Care to give examples or are you just spouting more rubbish?


What's your general point?? The issue here is not that Kilkenny are bad but hat they are so bad that
they can't be putting in any effort. IMO if that's the case then the amount of funding they receive must be looked at as football provides a good portion of that money. The equivalent hurling scoreline for the Fermanagh game would be something like 17-50 to 0-6 and I'd doubt Offaly, a mid ranked hurling team, would beat any low ranked team by that but a mid to low team like fermanagh did that to Kilkenny.

My general point is obvious and very simple, that i don't care if kilkenny don't bother putting any effort into football. Other people do seem bothered by it, and if we had more kilkenny people on here (this is the football board), then there might be a more balanced argument.

Tommy carr saying it's not fair on the likes of tipp who are putting great effort into football, as well as hurling, and i fully understand that point. At the same time, some forget kilkenny is half the size of tipp, quite a small county. Let them be good at what their doing.

The kilkenny chairman was able to put tommy wrong about the structures in place for football in kilkenny by the way, he gave plenty of figures about primary school comp, development squad numbers etc money is being spent. If the best lads want to play hurling, let them!

Do you care if counties don't put any effort into hurling?

Do you care if counties are getting funded by football money yet seem to be treating it with contempt?

Do you care that the money they get from Croke park could be used by other counties who would develop football?

I'm not putting the boot into Kilkenny and I'm not too bothered whether they are good at football or not but I am bothered of they are fielding teams simply for funding and I am bothered if there are lads who want to play football but their CB or clubs are actively hampering that. Only 30 lads can line out for their senior hurlers so they can field a half decent division 4 team IC they want.

I know this view is going to be met with some dismissal, but i think killkennys standard in football takes away some of the credit of there hurling success. Imagine how your county would do if they focused solely on one discipline. In kilkenny anybody who has in intrest in anything other than hurling is frowned upon, from an early age they are encouraged to pursue only thing for a good reason in there eyes. every thing else can have a detrimental effect on there preferred code. The press and great for eulogies and praise for there manager and hurlers without the consideration they have a serious advantage over the opposition in this respect

I agree to a certain extent that it certainly make it easier to focus on one code, which is why dual counties that compete at a high-mid level in both are to be applauded in one sense.

However, there are plenty of football counties who pay lip service at best to hurling. Are their Football successes also to be viewed as flawed because they don't devote a lot of effort and expense to hurling?

Quite a lot of Ulster and Connacht counties are open to this charge.

Quote from: Zulu on March 04, 2012, 05:34:40 PM

Do you care if counties don't put any effort into hurling?

Do you care if counties are getting funded by football money yet seem to be treating it with contempt?

Do you care that the money they get from Croke park could be used by other counties who would develop football?
I'm not putting the boot into Kilkenny and I'm not too bothered whether they are good at football or not but I am bothered of they are fielding teams simply for funding and I am bothered if there are lads who want to play football but their CB or clubs are actively hampering that. Only 30 lads can line out for their senior hurlers so they can field a half decent division 4 team IC they want.

Do you care if counties don't put any effort into hurling?  i've got used to it at this stage, over half the counties in ireland would have a weak hurling set up. Armagh have invested a fair bit the past decade to raise standards and i'm glad to see it. Cavan don't enter a senior team any more, it happens. They have enough on their plate getting good at football again, which i hope they do.

Do you care if counties are getting funded by football money yet seem to be treating it with contempt? maybe, i would need to see the exact details of this if cash is being wildly spent in the wrong

Do you care that the money they get from Croke park could be used by other counties who would develop football? same answer as above

AZOffaly hit the nail on the head. Offaly, limerick and others are trying to do well at both, and i've great time for counties who can do that. For anyone to say it takes away from kilkennys hurling success is a joke, no body ever mentioned it about tyrone being crap at hurling

In a lot of counties you tend to find that there is a divide in areas where football is very much the preference in one area and hurling in the other. That is very much the case in antrim where the cushendalls / loughgiels wouldn't have a football team at all and some of the other big teams wouldn't put as much emphasis on the football. This is likewise with a lot of clubs concentrating on football and hurling taking a back seat. This almost means you're working from a different player pool. There will undoubtedly be an overlap somewhere but it's not that great.

I *think* Tipperary would have certain areas which favour the football meaning they will always have a pool of players who will dedicate themselves to the football meaning there isn't too much of an overlap there either.

I can't speak for Offaly though from the outside looking in it looks to be different clubs competing in football and hurling. In the case of Kilkenny I don't think there would be many, if any, clubs who would favour the football.

I don't think it's fair to say a county hurling team can have 30 players so the rest should play football if they can. If you're player 31 or you're a young boy coming through on the edge of the KK panel I'd have thought you'd want to be playing all the club hurling you can so Cody can keep his eye on you for the next year.

I think it's a very difficult problem for them with the football and it's very easy to say they're a disgrace but I'm not sure if it's necessarily the case.

It's true to say that most counties have areas which are stonger in one than the other, but the issue is whether the county board at least facilitates and promotes both. In Offaly, the south (really West) Offaly would be seen as hurling heartland, whereas North (East) Offaly would be football. However, Offaly teams would have the odd few lads from areas not traditionally associated with the code, like Birr lads on the football teams, Tullamore and Edenderry lads on hurling etc.

Tipperary is similar, North is very much hurling, while South and West are more football. Mid is more hurling but A North amalgamated team is Senior Champions, there were reps from the North on the All Ireland Minor team, and a team from North won the Junior Championship this year too. There is certainly an emphasis on spreading football in Tipp at underage level.

All counties have it to a certain extent, even the likes of Galway and Cork (East Galway - hurling, North and West - football) (West Cork - Football), Limerick (West - Football, East - Hurling), but the County Board is supposed to facilitate the development of both. In Kilkenny that does not seem to be the way for football, just as several football counties seem to treat hurling as a necessary evil.

Quote from: Orchardman on March 04, 2012, 03:59:41 PM
if kilkenny really had to beat any of the ulster or connaught teams (apart from galway) by 50 points i would bet they could easily.

Why are you comparing Kilkenny hurlers to what happened today? Kilkenny lost by 46 points to another Div 4 team today.

If Tyrone GAA turned around tomorrow and said they were going to abandon hurling coaching at all levels as it was a drain on resources and players, they would be, quite rightly, pillared for it. They would have good reason for it too, hurling uses our pitches, money and players without any great success at inter-county level.

Tyrone hurling might be shit but at least they make an attempt at it, Kilkenny are treating football with complete and utter contempt. It's almost as though they enjoy these embarrassments, proving to themselves how unworthy football is of their attention.

"Hurling uses our pitches"

Huh? Hurling has as much a right to those pitches as football. It's a GAA pitch.

But you are right. Cavan got grief for abandoning senior hurling, rightly so, but at least they are trying to do something at underage. Kilkenny give the appearance of entering a team because they have to, and would really prefer not to. I mean if it's true that the Under 21s didn't even train together, how is that putting in an effort?

Quote from: deiseach on March 01, 2012, 04:29:21 PM

Quote from: Hardy on March 01, 2012, 04:10:29 PM
I don't know - I've never done it, but again, it doesn't look that hard.

"If I had ever learnt, I should have been a great proficient" - Lady Catherine de Bourgh on playing the piano, Pride and Prejudice

That is way too intellectual, dude
Tony Baloney will be on to you.

Quote from: trileacman on March 04, 2012, 10:00:15 PM
They would have good reason for it too, hurling uses our pitches, money and players without any great success at inter-county level.

Going by this rationale then most counties should give up either code?!

The RTE radio treatment of the subject is good

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/mediaplayer.html?features,3217533,3217533,flash,257

The first few minutes sound like a post nuclear wasteland for gaelic football

Of course hurling is more sophisticated  .
It's like having a big controversy over kids who refuse to eat chips.

Quote from: trileacman on March 04, 2012, 10:00:15 PM
If Tyrone GAA turned around tomorrow and said they were going to abandon hurling coaching at all levels as it was a drain on resources and players, they would be, quite rightly, pillared for it.

this is my point though, are you saying kilkenny don't do any football coaching? whatever about the lack of under 21 training, i heard the evidence that they have plenty of effort going on from primary to under 16 level.

I know i mentioned cavan earlier, and I think their right to take their team and focus on the younger age groups if they are trying to make an effort,fair enough.

The Kilkenny football head honcho was on that RTE interview and he said

-The county senior champions play Leinster intermediate so the standard is very poor
-The punters in the county have no interest in fuball

Presumably last year's all Ireland semi between Donegal and Dublin didn't lure them back  ;)

There was no shortage of putrid hurling games last year Seafóid, so that door swings both ways.

Interesting letter in the Sindo today from a lad that played three years of minor football for Kilkenny around the turn of the millennium. He claims that after coming off with a head wound in a championship game against Carlow, he was left sitting alone, topless (the man that dropped him off asked for his jersey 'so that it could be washed') in the local A&E for several hours until someone from the Kilkenny county board got round to ringing his mate to go pick him up. Pretty disgusting stuff from Kilkenny if true.

Quote from: Jinxy on March 04, 2012, 10:45:57 PM
There was no shortage of putrid hurling games last year Seafóid, so that door swings both ways.

Sure Jinxy but I get the feeling fuball is in a bit of a rut at the moment and Donegal is one of the exhibits.
The Kildare match was hard to watch as well. 

Wait until Galway come back with a decent team.   ;)

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 04, 2012, 10:06:27 PM
"Hurling uses our pitches"

Huh? Hurling has as much a right to those pitches as football. It's a GAA pitch.

But you are right. Cavan got grief for abandoning senior hurling, rightly so, but at least they are trying to do something at underage. Kilkenny give the appearance of entering a team because they have to, and would really prefer not to. I mean if it's true that the Under 21s didn't even train together, how is that putting in an effort?

I was only highlighting the position of some on hurling. It's not what I believe so give me a break. I agree with "It's a GAA pitch" sentiment.

Part of the problem is that one organisation is attempting to run two major sports. And where at local level, improving the participation in one of them is too often seen as detrimental to the other.

It is still a little surprising that people here have claimed to have only held a hurley in their hands for a few seconds at most. People I assume have been fairly involved in GAA activities for decades.

Imagine if it was America and there was one sporting body charged with running basketball and baseball. And millions of its members had never picked up or swung a baseball in their lives. And worse still, it was seen as a satisfactory outcome.

I believe that in Kilkenny there would be potentially be more people interested in playing if it was given a fair crack. The strength of soccer and rugby down there shows it isn't the mono-sporting county that their officials would have us believe.

The same goes for for several other football dominated counties where hurling is given about as much promotion as rounders. There are several of them, so they have an easier escape.
Unfortunately trying to take the shortest route to winning things will always take precedence over properly promoting the sports.

Rugby isn't popular Kilkenny - Kilkenny rugby club play in the 9th tier of Irish rugby i.e Leinster Junior League 2A.In schools rugby Kilkenny college punch above their weight due mainly to borders from all over the Leinster region. You then have the Normans rugby club based in Thomastown who occasionally play J4. In soccer they haven't had a league of Ireland team since 2008, hurling really has a clear run at it.

It's only a few counties where the 2 sports really overlap and supporters would sit down and watch both sports if a hurling match followed a football match.  I remember being at the 1996 Under 21 finals. Kerry Vs Cavan in the football and Galway Wexford in the hurling afterwards. Only a handful of the football fans stayed on.   A sizeable portion  of football followers have zero interest in hurling.   

Promotion of the weaker sport in the counties is generally poor.  Tipperary football and Dublin hurling are honourable exceptions.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 05, 2012, 05:00:14 PM
Rugby isn't popular Kilkenny - Kilkenny rugby club play in the 9th tier of Irish rugby i.e Leinster Junior League 2A.In schools rugby Kilkenny college punch above their weight due mainly to borders from all over the Leinster region. You then have the Normans rugby club based in Thomastown who occasionally play J4. In soccer they haven't had a league of Ireland team since 2008, hurling really has a clear run at it.

In soccer the Kilkenny's Youth and Junior leagues would be considered very strong. Participation levels in Junior soccer is very high, certainly much closer to hurling than football. In recent times I can recall teams like Freebooters making decent runs in the Junior Cups.

Boarders or not, Kilkenny College did beat Blackrock College in the Leinster schools Cup rugby a couple of years back. It also has produced introduced internationals like Willie Duggan, Gary Halpin and Ian Dowling. It mightn't be a rugby hotbed, but it would still have more rugby pedigree than a lot of GAA counties I can think of.

Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2012, 05:00:18 PM
It's only a few counties where the 2 sports really overlap and supporters would sit down and watch both sports if a hurling match followed a football match.  I remember being at the 1996 Under 21 finals. Kerry Vs Cavan in the football and Galway Wexford in the hurling afterwards. Only a handful of the football fans stayed on.   A sizeable portion  of football followers have zero interest in hurling.   

Promotion of the weaker sport in the counties is generally poor.  Tipperary football and Dublin hurling are honourable exceptions.

The Cavan crowd probably thought they'd be charged extra if they stayed for the hurling.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 05, 2012, 05:59:49 PM

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 05, 2012, 05:00:14 PM
Rugby isn't popular Kilkenny - Kilkenny rugby club play in the 9th tier of Irish rugby i.e Leinster Junior League 2A.In schools rugby Kilkenny college punch above their weight due mainly to borders from all over the Leinster region. You then have the Normans rugby club based in Thomastown who occasionally play J4. In soccer they haven't had a league of Ireland team since 2008, hurling really has a clear run at it.

In soccer the Kilkenny's Youth and Junior leagues would be considered very strong. Participation levels in Junior soccer is very high, certainly much closer to hurling than football. In recent times I can recall teams like Freebooters making decent runs in the Junior Cups.

Correct,Soccer is very strong in Kilkenny.
I played in the Kilkenny & District soccer leagues from U/9s right up till I was 30, right from the depths of Division 4 to the top league and with Oscar Traynor sides. Soccer is very well organised in Kilkenny and some of the bigger clubs have excellent facilities including all weather pitches etc.

Quote from: hardstation on March 05, 2012, 04:10:30 PM

Quote from: trileacman on March 05, 2012, 04:06:54 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 04, 2012, 10:06:27 PM
"Hurling uses our pitches"

Huh? Hurling has as much a right to those pitches as football. It's a GAA pitch.

But you are right. Cavan got grief for abandoning senior hurling, rightly so, but at least they are trying to do something at underage. Kilkenny give the appearance of entering a team because they have to, and would really prefer not to. I mean if it's true that the Under 21s didn't even train together, how is that putting in an effort?

I was only highlighting the position of some on hurling. It's not what I believe so give me a break. I agree with "It's a GAA pitch" sentiment.

So, when you say "they would have good reason for it too", whose position are you highlighting?

FFS if you want to go through the post with a fine comb work away. I'm coming down on the side of promoting both codes. If it's so difficult to understand don't bother replying.

They have a big interest in Mayo club football in Kilkenny for some reason.


http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compID=8349

Proof (as if it were needed) of just how much more skilful the big-ball game is than the small-ball!  ;)

hurling is miles more skilled, football is becoming more like basketball and with a few skilled lads able to score any bunch of athletes could give the best teams a game.

Rubbish and why any football person would buy in, let alone repeat, such nonsense is beyond me.

Probably to wind up lads like you :D

Quote from: mannix on March 07, 2012, 01:08:24 PM
hurling is miles more skilled, football is becoming more like basketball and with a few skilled lads able to score any bunch of athletes could give the best teams a game.

Say what you like about basketball but at least they hit the target every few minutes.

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 07, 2012, 03:43:06 PM
Probably to wind up lads like you :D

;D ;D to be fair it always works too!!

Quote from: AZOffaly on March 07, 2012, 03:43:06 PM
Probably to wind up lads like you :D

Ah no AZ, that just wouldn't be me!  ;)

Not a word about the Kilkenny u/21's lining out for Laois last night?

Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

Quote from: grattans on March 09, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

Whatever about your other examples, Kerry are extremely competitive in hurling, they won the Christy Ring last year. The rest of your post is whataboutery.

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 09, 2012, 10:10:02 AM

Quote from: grattans on March 09, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

Whatever about your other examples, Kerry are extremely competitive in hurling, they won the Christy Ring last year. The rest of your post is whataboutery.

To be fair he's not far wrong. I know at the very least the treatment of hurling in derry is shameful. I'm sure it goes on plenty elsewhere too.

Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2012, 10:11:50 AM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 09, 2012, 10:10:02 AM

Quote from: grattans on March 09, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

Whatever about your other examples, Kerry are extremely competitive in hurling, they won the Christy Ring last year. The rest of your post is whataboutery.

To be fair he's not far wrong. I know at the very least the treatment of hurling in derry is shameful. I'm sure it goes on plenty elsewhere too.

Yeah, but why bring Derry and the likes into a discussion on Kilkenny football? That's another ill that deserves its own thread.

Hurling is developing very fast at underage level in mayo, and the county team never go out and not try their best even if they are not sucessful. They try a lot harder than thekilkenny footballers and thats the reason people are annoyed at Kilkenny.

Quote from: mannix on March 09, 2012, 12:46:40 PM
Hurling is developing very fast at underage level in mayo, and the county team never go out and not try their best even if they are not sucessful. They try a lot harder than thekilkenny footballers and thats the reason people are annoyed at Kilkenny.

I think you need to differentiate between how players treat the weaker sport in a county to the way a county board treats that sport.

AFAIK Kilkenny as a county hasn't got a football only area whereas a lot of football dominated counties would have a pocket of hurling clubs, like Tyrone, Mayo, Armagh, Down etc who keep the game going sometimes inspite of their county boards actions.

Kilkenny county board by their actions look to only pay lip service to football, but that can be said on the flip side for a good few other counties.

Doesn't make it right though.

Armagh county board have been putting a lot of resources into hurling and they're reaping a reward, their U-21's, minors etc are probably better than Down and Derry at the minute with Middletown getting to an AI intermediate final only last month.

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 09, 2012, 10:33:41 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2012, 10:11:50 AM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 09, 2012, 10:10:02 AM

Quote from: grattans on March 09, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

Whatever about your other examples, Kerry are extremely competitive in hurling, they won the Christy Ring last year. The rest of your post is whataboutery.

To be fair he's not far wrong. I know at the very least the treatment of hurling in derry is shameful. I'm sure it goes on plenty elsewhere too.

Yeah, but why bring Derry and the likes into a discussion on Kilkenny football? That's another ill that deserves its own thread.

Why not? I think it's a fair enough point that there are a number of counties pay lip service to hurling and Kilkenny do the same with football yet people only seem to pay any attention to Kilkenny's attitude to football and not the other counties on hurling.

The reality probably is that in a lot of places there is a lack of interest in the football in KK.  I'm sure they could do better. It would be interesting to know if their county board had people on it who favoured football. Basically I wonder if they have a county board with all hurling men then who's going to take on the job of promoting the football.

There is plenty of interest in the likes of Derry to hurling.

Are there any Kilkenny clubs that are football only? I'm assuming not.

I'm also assuming that every other county has a few hurling clubs with at least one that is hurling only?

Quote from: grattans on March 09, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

Tell us more about the treatment of hurling in Meath.

Quote from: johnneycool on March 09, 2012, 01:50:36 PM

Quote from: mannix on March 09, 2012, 12:46:40 PM
Hurling is developing very fast at underage level in mayo, and the county team never go out and not try their best even if they are not sucessful. They try a lot harder than thekilkenny footballers and thats the reason people are annoyed at Kilkenny.

I think you need to differentiate between how players treat the weaker sport in a county to the way a county board treats that sport.

AFAIK Kilkenny as a county hasn't got a football only area whereas a lot of football dominated counties would have a pocket of hurling clubs, like Tyrone, Mayo, Armagh, Down etc who keep the game going sometimes inspite of their county boards actions.

Kilkenny county board by their actions look to only pay lip service to football, but that can be said on the flip side for a good few other counties.

Doesn't make it right though.

Armagh county board have been putting a lot of resources into hurling and they're reaping a reward, their U-21's, minors etc are probably better than Down and Derry at the minute with Middletown getting to an AI intermediate final only last month.

Mayo hasn't got a hurling area per sé either johnney. True underage hurling is available in some places, and the towns have a nice underage hurling structure, i.e Westport, Ballina and Castlebar, but it's not confined to one particular area.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 09, 2012, 08:58:06 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on March 09, 2012, 01:50:36 PM

Quote from: mannix on March 09, 2012, 12:46:40 PM
Hurling is developing very fast at underage level in mayo, and the county team never go out and not try their best even if they are not sucessful. They try a lot harder than thekilkenny footballers and thats the reason people are annoyed at Kilkenny.

I think you need to differentiate between how players treat the weaker sport in a county to the way a county board treats that sport.

AFAIK Kilkenny as a county hasn't got a football only area whereas a lot of football dominated counties would have a pocket of hurling clubs, like Tyrone, Mayo, Armagh, Down etc who keep the game going sometimes inspite of their county boards actions.

Kilkenny county board by their actions look to only pay lip service to football, but that can be said on the flip side for a good few other counties.

Doesn't make it right though.

Armagh county board have been putting a lot of resources into hurling and they're reaping a reward, their U-21's, minors etc are probably better than Down and Derry at the minute with Middletown getting to an AI intermediate final only last month.

Mayo hasn't got a hurling area per sé either johnney. True underage hurling is available in some places, and the towns have a nice underage hurling structure, i.e Westport, Ballina and Castlebar, but it's not confined to one particular area.

Not true, honestly. Toreen and Ballyhaunis are hurling strongholds and it's taken root relatively locally in Carracastle too.

Quote from: grattans on March 09, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

While you have a point regarding the County Boards, it is an insult to Mayo hurling to compare it to Kilkenny football. Also Mayo hurlers were frequently promoted only to be demoted by restructuring. The issue here is hurlings treatment of hurling. There is an elite set of hurling counties and .........the rest.

HT Div 4 NFL Limerick 1-15 Kilkenny 0-0 FT 1-30 to 0-1.

I'm sure said before, but there's just too much of a gap between Kilkenny & the other Div 4 football counties. That same gap isn't in hurling as enough counties can be structured together.

However 50 point beatings at young buck level??.....why not 20 point beatings...15 or 10? That's the bit that riles.

Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2012, 02:36:00 AM

Quote from: grattans on March 09, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

While you have a point regarding the County Boards, it is an insult to Mayo hurling to compare it to Kilkenny football. Also Mayo hurlers were frequently promoted only to be demoted by restructuring. The issue here is hurlings treatment of hurling. There is an elite set of hurling counties and .........the rest.

?i,
.i think the main issue is the supply of decent farmland. Plus the national tendency towards mediocrity.

Dublin , muppet. Were they elite the year before last

Well done to Kilkenny on the scoring of a point,  they surely have to be team if the Weak.

Quote from: fitzroyalty on March 09, 2012, 06:05:52 PM
Are there any Kilkenny clubs that are football only? I'm assuming not.

Railyard is the only football only club in Kilkenny. They're in Moneeenroe.

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 11, 2012, 07:51:09 PM

Quote from: Heshs Umpire on March 11, 2012, 04:10:51 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on March 09, 2012, 06:05:52 PM
Are there any Kilkenny clubs that are football only? I'm assuming not.

Railyard is the only football only club in Kilkenny. They're in Moneeenroe.

Railyard is most prominent one, but I think there's another two as well.

Do they play league football in Kilkenny soley or in a neighbouring county?

Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2012, 10:43:19 PM

Quote from: muppet on March 10, 2012, 02:36:00 AM

Quote from: grattans on March 09, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
Anyone else feed up of the annual attack on Kilkenny football, sure the treatment and standard of football is a disgrace, but where are all the raised voices about the treatment of hurling in those strong fotballing counties, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal, Meath, Kerry, I could go on. So one County down plays football, get real tackle the real shame which is the treament of Hurling by so many strong Gaa counties.  Get of Kilkennys back and see the reral problem

While you have a point regarding the County Boards, it is an insult to Mayo hurling to compare it to Kilkenny football. Also Mayo hurlers were frequently promoted only to be demoted by restructuring. The issue here is hurlings treatment of hurling. There is an elite set of hurling counties and .........the rest.

?i,
.i think the main issue is the supply of decent farmland. Plus the national tendency towards mediocrity.

Dublin , muppet. Were they elite the year before last

No but they were in the past.

My comment was directed at the crazy comparison of Mayo hurling and Kilkenny football.

Joe Henry was a Mayo hurler who played on the connacht railway cup hurling teams of the 80s.
I doubt KK had anyone on the Leinster fuball team.

Leitrim 4-25 Kilkenny 0-3 with a minute to go..

Kildare 7-30 to  Armagh 0-07 - NHL  :-X

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 25, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
Kildare 7-30 to  Armagh 0-07 - NHL  :-X

Armagh 1-20 to Roscommon 1-14
Armagh 0-21 to Mayo 1-11

How many games have the Kilkenny footballers won this year?

Quote from: Blowitupref on March 25, 2012, 03:58:50 PM
Leitrim 4-25 Kilkenny 0-3 with a minute to go..

Well, it is an improvement on.. err.. no points scored last year.  ;)

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 25, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
Kildare 7-30 to  Armagh 0-07 - NHL  :-X

I know your bein a bit smart at our expense but u have a point, thats as bad a beating as any this year. Very poor considering the inroads we have made in hurling and kildare is a team we should be expecting to be beating if we want to progress

awful hammering

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 25, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
Kildare 7-30 to  Armagh 0-07 - NHL  :-X

Caught most of the second half of it. Willie Sunderland has them moving well.

Warwickshire 8-25
Longford 0-05

give or take

:(

This has latterly and inadvertently turned into a great thread  ;D

Quote from: Orchardman on March 25, 2012, 08:18:18 PM

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 25, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
Kildare 7-30 to  Armagh 0-07 - NHL  :-X

I know your bein a bit smart at our expense but u have a point, thats as bad a beating as any this year. Very poor considering the inroads we have made in hurling and kildare is a team we should be expecting to be beating if we want to progress

awful hammering

I hear that it was a lot of second string players that played the match, is that true?

According to the Irish news yesterday the Kildare manager. at least I think he was the manager, said that the team armagh put out was disrespectful to them.

Not sure I understand why they would put out a weakened team on purpose or if they didn't why he thought they did... Very strange.

Anyone any idea what was going on?

Hammerings in hurling are different... You could feasibly score a lot in a purple patch of about 10 minutes of hurling. Not so much so in football.

Leinster MFC result - Kilkenny 1-0 Offaly 8-30

That's brutal and does nothing for Offaly because the only back door available to them is if they had lost to Kilkenny. What the hell was the goalie at to concede a goal though?

As for scoring 8-30, I think that's lousy but how do you tell young lads to ease off? Even if you bring on subs they'll be mad to make their mark. Revenge for the 31 point hammering our senior hurlers took in Croker there a while ago.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on April 13, 2012, 09:16:42 PM
Leinster MFC result - Kilkenny 1-0 Offaly 8-30

:o

It's like Under 10 football or something.

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 13, 2012, 09:29:04 PM
That's brutal and does nothing for Offaly because the only back door available to them is if they had lost to Kilkenny. What the hell was the goalie at to concede a goal though?

As for scoring 8-30, I think that's lousy but how do you tell young lads to ease off? Even if you bring on subs they'll be mad to make their mark. Revenge for the 31 point hammering our senior hurlers took in Croker there a while ago.

He was probably sitting against the post doing his maths homework.

Following their loss to Kildare in JFC last night, a proposal has been put forward in Kilkenny to withdraw Senior Footballers from NFL

(https://p.twimg.com/AuN_BcGCEAEW3-X.jpg)

ahh holy jaysus....

One of these men is a senior intercounty footballer.....

Quote from: hardstation on May 31, 2012, 02:19:20 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on May 31, 2012, 02:17:39 PM
One of these men is a senior intercounty footballer.....

Exactly, it's supposed to be a junior match. The Kilkenny boy looks the part.

How can a senior footballer be allowed to play junior?

Will McGeeney do absolutely anything to win a medal?
;)

Earley didn't play county championship last year so is eligible for this grade. It's just a handy way of getting a few matches under his belt to help with his recovery. Would hardly describe last night as a workout though.

It was for that poor KK lad.

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 31, 2012, 02:38:06 PM
Earley didn't play county championship last year so is eligible for this grade. It's just a handy way of getting a few matches under his belt to help with his recovery. Would hardly describe last night as a workout though.

I thought he did line out for Kildare, or are you talking about club championship?

Quote from: johnneycool on May 31, 2012, 04:04:05 PM

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 31, 2012, 02:38:06 PM
Earley didn't play county championship last year so is eligible for this grade. It's just a handy way of getting a few matches under his belt to help with his recovery. Would hardly describe last night as a workout though.

I thought he did line out for Kildare, or are you talking about club championship?

He actually hasn't played senior club championship in Kildare (prior to the first round this year) since 2009 so he's eligible for the county junior team this year until he makes an appearance for the Kildare seniors in the championship. At that stage he will no longer be eligible for selection with the juniors.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 31, 2012, 01:24:07 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/AuN_BcGCEAEW3-X.jpg)

The fullback has the ball stuffed up his top FFS  :o

Who is the Kildare manager? what sort of malicious hoor would put Dermot Early in full forward on that poor chap ? :D

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 31, 2012, 04:19:38 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on May 31, 2012, 04:04:05 PM

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 31, 2012, 02:38:06 PM
Earley didn't play county championship last year so is eligible for this grade. It's just a handy way of getting a few matches under his belt to help with his recovery. Would hardly describe last night as a workout though.

I thought he did line out for Kildare, or are you talking about club championship?

He actually hasn't played senior club championship in Kildare (prior to the first round this year) since 2009 so he's eligible for the county junior team this year until he makes an appearance for the Kildare seniors in the championship. At that stage he will no longer be eligible for selection with the juniors.

If he played Inter-County Championship last year does that not make him ineligible? I know it does in Cavan's case.

Quote from: Jinxy on May 31, 2012, 03:33:32 PM
It was for that poor KK lad.

He held Earley to two points, or so the story goes.

Quote from: boojangles on May 31, 2012, 10:40:30 PM

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 31, 2012, 04:19:38 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on May 31, 2012, 04:04:05 PM

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 31, 2012, 02:38:06 PM
Earley didn't play county championship last year so is eligible for this grade. It's just a handy way of getting a few matches under his belt to help with his recovery. Would hardly describe last night as a workout though.

I thought he did line out for Kildare, or are you talking about club championship?

He actually hasn't played senior club championship in Kildare (prior to the first round this year) since 2009 so he's eligible for the county junior team this year until he makes an appearance for the Kildare seniors in the championship. At that stage he will no longer be eligible for selection with the juniors.

If he played Inter-County Championship last year does that not make him ineligible? I know it does in Cavan's case.

He hasn't featured in a championship match for Kildare since the quarter final win after Meath in 2010 when he went off injured after a few minutes.

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on June 01, 2012, 01:53:43 AM

Quote from: boojangles on May 31, 2012, 10:40:30 PM

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 31, 2012, 04:19:38 PM

Quote from: johnneycool on May 31, 2012, 04:04:05 PM

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 31, 2012, 02:38:06 PM
Earley didn't play county championship last year so is eligible for this grade. It's just a handy way of getting a few matches under his belt to help with his recovery. Would hardly describe last night as a workout though.

I thought he did line out for Kildare, or are you talking about club championship?

He actually hasn't played senior club championship in Kildare (prior to the first round this year) since 2009 so he's eligible for the county junior team this year until he makes an appearance for the Kildare seniors in the championship. At that stage he will no longer be eligible for selection with the juniors.

If he played Inter-County Championship last year does that not make him ineligible? I know it does in Cavan's case.

He hasn't featured in a championship match for Kildare since the quarter final win after Meath in 2010 when he went off injured after a few minutes.

My dad and I were there that day, the Roscommon/Cork quarter-final was the earlier game. It was probably the most disapointing act of the day for my dad, who honour of playing for Michael Glavey's alongside Dermot snr. and the prospect of seeing Roscommon and Dermot Earley playing in Croke Park again, albeit in different generations and jerseys, warmed the cockles.

He was pretty circumspect about it last August when we asked him at the Dermot Earley snr. memorial unveiling in Gorthaganny but it's great to see it looking like he's finally over-coming the knee injury.

It's so wonderful to see how Dermot jnr. has embodied the same qualities on and off the field that his father did. Few players deserve a bit of luck - and an All-Ireland - as much as he does.

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 31, 2012, 10:09:39 PM
Who is the Kildare manager? what sort of malicious hoor would put Dermot Early in full forward on that poor chap ? :D

Maybe the KK management sent him out to go man-to-man on Earley?  A black and amber jersey hasn't been stretched like that since I retired!!!!

(http://www.joe.ie/uploads/story/25390/25390-xlarge.jpg)
The Kilkenny footballer who marked Dermot Earley has seen the funny side of it
today at 8:04 am
Paul Donnelly, the Kilkenny footballer who starred in this week's most shared story on JOE, has seen the funny side of things.
Donnelly was the Kilkenny full back in Wednesday night's Leinster JFC game against Kildare, when at one stage he found himself in the same sphere of existence as the Lilywhites' double All Star Dermot Earley.
The striking difference in physique between the pair struck a chord with Facebook and Twitter users yesterday, with our counters showing well over 300 shares on the story as of this morning.
But instead of taking anything to heart Donnelly was sportingly getting into the spirit of things on his own Twitter account.

He first changed his biog...
(http://www.joe.ie/uploads/story/25390/pauldonnelly-bio1.jpg)
and then posted a number of humorous tweets about the picture.
(http://www.joe.ie/uploads/story/25390/pauldonnelly-tweet-0.jpg)
(http://www.joe.ie/uploads/story/25390/pauldonnelly-tweet-1.jpg)
(http://www.joe.ie/uploads/story/25390/pauldonnelly-tweet-4.jpg)
Not everyone saw the funny side of it though, with Irish Examiner GAA journalist John Fogarty once again underlining his pressing need for a sense of humour transplant:
(http://www.joe.ie/uploads/story/25390/johnfogarty-tweet.jpg)
Update: John Fogarty has confirmed via Twitter today that he is heading in for surgery. So the sense of humour should be in fine working order again any day now!

Main pic via the man himself, @pauldonnelly21.

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=253691

Nicky Brennan happy with savings the cats make on not spending on football. Followed up by the 71 point defeat by Wexford minors (17-20 to 0-00).

My admiration for Kilkenny hurling goes out the window when I see that crap.

Just got there ahead of me, it is amazing a man with such a terrible attitude made it so far in the GAA.

No harm but that is poor form. Personally I feel the least that can be done is that any county that does not engage in both codes should not have their grounds used for any championship games.

No uproar about this result strangely - Kerry   2-21        Waterford   1-2

How about this U-21 from 2013 Dublin 4-27 v 0-02 Carlow?

Quote from: Throw ball on April 17, 2016, 07:06:31 PM
No harm but that is poor form. Personally I feel the least that can be done is that any county that does not engage in both codes should not have their grounds used for any championship games.

Northern counties don't promote hurling so a lot of hypocritical posts here

Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2016, 07:30:39 PM
No uproar about this result strangely - Kerry   2-21        Waterford   1-2

How about this U-21 from 2013 Dublin 4-27 v 0-02 Carlow?

Waterford try. They invest in their footballers, it is just very far behind hurling. They run the u14 development Munster blitz every year in Dungarvan. There is a difference between being bad, but trying, and literally not bothering your hole. It must be hell being a football man in Kilkenny. Comments like Brennan's are indicative of the thinking there, and it is disgraceful.

Quote from: INDIANA on April 17, 2016, 07:37:24 PM

Quote from: Throw ball on April 17, 2016, 07:06:31 PM
No harm but that is poor form. Personally I feel the least that can be done is that any county that does not engage in both codes should not have their grounds used for any championship games.

Northern counties don't promote hurling so a lot of hypocritical posts here

Your bigotry against northern teams here is legendary by now. As far as I know they all have teams in the national leagues. I can only speak for my own county but they were divisional league champions this year. The investment in the county hurling is much more than €100,000 Brennan was gloating that Kilkenny saved for not having football in the county. The Ulster Council have an Ulster league to try and improve standards. Ulster counties are in general trying to improve. Kilkenny appear to be doing nothing to improve football.

I am no hypocrite I can assure you.

Quote from: Throw ball on April 17, 2016, 07:47:26 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on April 17, 2016, 07:37:24 PM

Quote from: Throw ball on April 17, 2016, 07:06:31 PM
No harm but that is poor form. Personally I feel the least that can be done is that any county that does not engage in both codes should not have their grounds used for any championship games.

Northern counties don't promote hurling so a lot of hypocritical posts here

Your bigotry against northern teams here is legendary by now. As far as I know they all have teams in the national leagues. I can only speak for my own county but they were divisional league champions this year. The investment in the county hurling is much more than €100,000 Brennan was gloating that Kilkenny saved for not having football in the county. The Ulster Council have an Ulster league to try and improve standards. Ulster counties are in general trying to improve. Kilkenny appear to be doing nothing to improve football.

I am no hypocrite I can assure you.

I have first hand knowledge of the "promotion" of hurling up there and it's lip service only. Most of the counties don't give a shite about it.

Nicky Breenan is only Guilty of speaking the truth. If a few other counties were as honest Im sure the same would apply to their investment in hurling. There are several counties competing at the lower levels in hurling whos combined disregard for hurling makes them look competitive against each other.

Quote from: From the Bunker on April 17, 2016, 07:30:39 PM
No uproar about this result strangely - Kerry   2-21        Waterford   1-2

How about this U-21 from 2013 Dublin 4-27 v 0-02 Carlow?

Sometimes, particularly at underage, a team from a weaker county will get an unmerciful hammering.
This Kilkenny situation is different as it's almost a badge of honour for them.
How can you not score for an entire game?
Did they even kick any wides?

2011 in NFL Div 4 Kilkenny senior footballers failed to score against Leitrim. They stopped playing league football in 2012 and in their final home game they conceded 4-30 against London. 4 years on and still no sign of Kilkenny seniors returning to league football.

The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

Quote from: general_lee on April 17, 2016, 09:58:40 PM
The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

;D
What a crock of shite.

Quote from: INDIANA on April 17, 2016, 07:37:24 PM

Quote from: Throw ball on April 17, 2016, 07:06:31 PM
No harm but that is poor form. Personally I feel the least that can be done is that any county that does not engage in both codes should not have their grounds used for any championship games.

Northern counties don't promote hurling so a lot of hypocritical posts here

Which northern counties are you talking about? All of the six counties invest a lot of work and resources in hurling, much more than the amount Brennan was slabbering about. Coincidentally my own county, -Armagh, had this weekend, their whole senior hurling squad and management down in Wexford for a bonding experience.

Quote from: general_lee on April 17, 2016, 09:58:40 PM
The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

+1

Are there some sort of participation grants Kilkenny gets by fielding a minor team in both codes? It's hard to see why they'd even bother bringing this heat on themselves if here wasn't a bean counter in the background.

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 01:15:01 PM
There's no shame in trying and failing miserably.
The shame is in not trying to begin with.
Kilkenny are clearly not trying.
At all.
They're basically saying 'Leave us alone or we'll turn every football fixture you give us into an absolute travesty'.
Plenty of counties are useless at hurling.
They still make the effort though.

+1

Quote from: ck on April 17, 2016, 10:56:05 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on March 01, 2012, 01:15:01 PM
There's no shame in trying and failing miserably.
The shame is in not trying to begin with.
Kilkenny are clearly not trying.
At all.
They're basically saying 'Leave us alone or we'll turn every football fixture you give us into an absolute travesty'.
Plenty of counties are useless at hurling.
They still make the effort though.

+1

+2

Kilkenny people have a very strong sense of aesthetic . I think this is why football is left to rot in the fields of the county

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoQMl5kr17E

What is the consensus from KK posters, is football a novelty or is it treated anyway serious?
I know in Armagh Keady footballers suffer as a result of the commitment their hurlers show so to say northern teams don't try is ignorant, and that's a club, not a county. 

Regarding Brennans comments on saving money by not fielding a team is a pure joke.  Money should never be a factor in deciding whether a team should be incorporated.   

The Waterford example is ridiculous.  A book detailing the Waterford footballers 2009 season shown the sacrifice and commitment their players and staff gave to represent.  Some players were traveling from England and some were taking football over hurling.  Results aside the effort and progress is being made.

Is that the biggest bayin of all time in inter county at any grade?

Obv we all remember U-10s where you could win by 30-00 to 0-00 but surely that is the worst. How can a team be so bad? I am sure Wexford are no great shakes and will probably lose the next day. Did the 15 KK lads even see a gaelic football before? Surely ta fcuk they could have strung one passage of play and got a point.

The mind boggles and I am all for serious sactions on KK county board. Not a fine, per se (that is indiscrimiate), but suspension of delegates to Leinster council or a ban on KK officials running for national GAA office. Something to hit the CB directly.

Kilkenny now claiming they did in fact score a point. An injury time free with the last kick of the game. No confirmation as to whether Wexford and the referee were still on the pitch.

Quote from: laoislad on April 17, 2016, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: general_lee on April 17, 2016, 09:58:40 PM
The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

;D
What a crock of shite.

Reads fine to me. They are true hurling people but would match our loyalist brethren with their contempt for football. If KK are saving 100k from not bothering their hole with football I'd remove that 100k from their funding plus a bit more and give it to GPOs who will concentrate purely on football in the schools. See them rush to field some teams then.

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 18, 2016, 09:41:29 AM

Quote from: laoislad on April 17, 2016, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: general_lee on April 17, 2016, 09:58:40 PM
The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

;D
What a crock of shite.

Reads fine to me. They are true hurling people but would match our loyalist brethren with their contempt for football. If KK are saving 100k from not bothering their hole with football I'd remove that 100k from their funding plus a bit more and give it to GPOs who will concentrate purely on football in the schools. See them rush to field some teams then.

Good for you,I still think it's a crock of shite.
There's plenty of posters on here who have shown contempt for hurling over the years. I've never heard anyone say they aren't true GAA people.
I'd love some of you boyos to go down to a club in Kilkenny and tell them they aren't real Gaa people because they don't play football.

Absolutely they have been criticised before Laoislad. I can't abide situations where GAA units don't at least promote both codes, and provide a viable outlet for members to play them. I'm aware a lot of lads would make pencils out of hurls, and others would take penknives to footballs, but you can't allow those sort of lads to set the agenda. Apart from the fact that it's against the ethos of the association, it is absolutely discriminating against people who would like to play the other code.

And not for one minute do I believe that 'everyone in Kilkenny' hates football. There's enough of a soccer culture around Kilkenny to make me think the hurling 'volk' are not the only sporting bloc in the county.

And also, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. If the county board, and the clubs, continually say there is no interest, and continually preach that people don't care, and continue to treat football competitions with disdain, then of course young Joe Bloggs is not going to bother his arse in football, because he'll be a  figure of ridicule.

If, however, the County Board said that they would set up development squads, run club competitions, publicise the results, and encourage coaches to go around helping, then I guarantee you you would see an upsurge in interest among young lads, and eventually something approaching respectibility in results. But more imporatntly, there would be an outlet for a young fella who like football in Kilkenny to wear his county jersey with pride, instead feeling he is an inconvenience to the county.

Even the worst hurling counties I know of, Cavan, Fermanagh etc, are at least providing coaches, hurling leagues and an outlet for their players, publishing results on facebook, etc etc.

Quote from: laoislad on April 18, 2016, 10:06:01 AM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 18, 2016, 09:41:29 AM

Quote from: laoislad on April 17, 2016, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: general_lee on April 17, 2016, 09:58:40 PM
The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

;D
What a crock of shite.

Reads fine to me. They are true hurling people but would match our loyalist brethren with their contempt for football. If KK are saving 100k from not bothering their hole with football I'd remove that 100k from their funding plus a bit more and give it to GPOs who will concentrate purely on football in the schools. See them rush to field some teams then.

Good for you,I still think it's a crock of shite.
There's plenty of posters on here who have shown contempt for hurling over the years. I've never heard anyone say they aren't true GAA people.
I'd love some of you boyos to go down to a club in Kilkenny and tell them they aren't real Gaa people because they don't play football.

I generally find that football people from football counties look upon hurling as interesting to watch from time to time whereas in Kilkenny it is a badge of honour to have a sneer at football and all who bother with it.

QuoteEven the worst hurling counties I know of, Cavan, Fermanagh etc, are at least providing coaches, hurling leagues and an outlet for their players, publishing results on facebook, etc etc.

Yeah but Cavan and Fermanagh aren't winning All Irelands every year .
Do you think there would be much interest or development in hurling in those counties if they were winning football All Irelands every year?
I would say it would be reduced dramatically.
I simply do not believe the level of interest in playing football is actually in Kilkenny.

Yes as you say not everyone hates football in Kilkenny, in fact in all my years there I've never heard anyone say a bad word towards it, but its more of a case they are happy to watch other counties play it.
I remember when Laois won Leinster, a couple of bus loads actually went from Kilkenny to cheer on Laois.

Quote from: laoislad on April 18, 2016, 10:40:25 AM

QuoteEven the worst hurling counties I know of, Cavan, Fermanagh etc, are at least providing coaches, hurling leagues and an outlet for their players, publishing results on facebook, etc etc.

Yeah but Cavan and Fermanagh aren't winning All Irelands every year .
Do you think there would be much interest or development in hurling in those counties if they were winning football All Irelands every year?
I would say it would be reduced dramatically.
I simply do not believe the level of interest in playing football is actually in Kilkenny.

Yes as you say not everyone hates football in Kilkenny, in fact in all my years there I've never heard anyone say a bad word towards it, but its more of a case they are happy to watch other counties play it.
I remember when Laois won Leinster, a couple of bus loads actually went from Kilkenny to cheer on Laois.

Surely this proves the point? If there are bus loads willing to cheer on the neighbouring county in football there is obviously a certain level of interest that should be nurtured. I can only guess, but I would imagine that kilkenny people would much rather support a kilkenny football team over a laois team?

First things first,

Nicky Brennan is a first order bollox only interested in 'Elite' hurling when he removed the Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard finals out of their AI semi-final day slot to allow the Elite minor hurlers back in at 2.00 as they were previously on at 12.00 when Sean Kelly set up those competitions!

Secondly,
   Indiana is sadly right when he says some Northern county boards only pay lip service to hurling, with the exceptions of Antrim and it seems Armagh as well. Down can be a mishmash,but our current secretary certainly isn't a fan, the previous Chairman was, not sure about the current one as yet! County teams are reasonably well catered for, club hurling is a mess, but hopefully improving.
I'd say Derry is much like Down as the hurling clubs are the ones driving the hurling to an extent, but there's no doubting hurling in the likes of the dual clubs in Derry who're strong in both codes is a bane to their CB. There's now a load of Derry hurling clubs looking to Antrim to get underage and adult fixtures. Why?

As for Tyrone, Fermanagh and Donegal, its once again the die hard hurling areas that are ensuring these counties are putting out intercounty teams rather than any great plan by their County Boards. IIRC it's only a few years ago that the Tyrone secretary threatened to pull Tyrone out of the NHL..

Don't even start me on the Ulster Council!

I think Nicky would prefer if Kilkenny, Cork and Tipperary played a triangular tournament every year to decide the All Ireland. The others would be free to hurl away among themselves, or play football, whatever ye like lads.

Quote from: laoislad on April 18, 2016, 10:06:01 AM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 18, 2016, 09:41:29 AM

Quote from: laoislad on April 17, 2016, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: general_lee on April 17, 2016, 09:58:40 PM
The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

;D
What a crock of shite.

Reads fine to me. They are true hurling people but would match our loyalist brethren with their contempt for football. If KK are saving 100k from not bothering their hole with football I'd remove that 100k from their funding plus a bit more and give it to GPOs who will concentrate purely on football in the schools. See them rush to field some teams then.

Good for you,I still think it's a crock of shite.
There's plenty of posters on here who have shown contempt for hurling over the years. I've never heard anyone say they aren't true GAA people.
I'd love some of you boyos to go down to a club in Kilkenny and tell them they aren't real Gaa people because they don't play football.

I'd tell them no bother. Their county board are a f**king joke. How can they lay any claim to being a true GAA county when their county board treat football the way most counties treat rounders

Ah lads, ye can't be throwing mud like that at Nicky. Sure didn't he manage the Kilkenny footballers for a year or two so he's obviously very interested in the promotion of gaelic football anyway. I'm sure it was only coincidental that this was just before he began his run for the office of president.  ::)

Yeah, amazing how quickly the Christy Ring and Rackard Cup competitions were moved to make way for the elite minor players

So what if they have no Meas for football .

Quote from: seafoid on April 18, 2016, 12:13:38 PM
So what if they have no Meas for football .

Who are 'They'? I cannot accept that there is nobody in the county who has an interest in football, or a desire to represent the county at football. Just because the majority in a county don't want to play it, doesn't mean the KK county board are absolved of their duty as a GAA member (not a hurling member) to provide an adequate avenue for people in Kilkenny to play that code. There are 17 adult soccer clubs in Kilkenny, and a host more at schoolboy, schoolgirl level. There are youth and adult rugby players in Kilkenny. The notion that the only sport that floats their boat is hurling is just not true. If Gaelic Football in Kilkenny was organised by a separate association, I bet the game would at least be played, and the players given some sort of a chance to develop. It would never threaten Hurling's sport as the number 1 sport, but surely it could compete with Soccer and Rugby down there.

Is there not a few decent gaelic teams in KK? i thought there was a decent enough interest in club football to a certain extent anyway.

Quote from: general_lee on April 18, 2016, 11:16:45 AM

Quote from: laoislad on April 18, 2016, 10:06:01 AM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 18, 2016, 09:41:29 AM

Quote from: laoislad on April 17, 2016, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: general_lee on April 17, 2016, 09:58:40 PM
The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

;D
What a crock of shite.

Reads fine to me. They are true hurling people but would match our loyalist brethren with their contempt for football. If KK are saving 100k from not bothering their hole with football I'd remove that 100k from their funding plus a bit more and give it to GPOs who will concentrate purely on football in the schools. See them rush to field some teams then.

Good for you,I still think it's a crock of shite.
There's plenty of posters on here who have shown contempt for hurling over the years. I've never heard anyone say they aren't true GAA people.
I'd love some of you boyos to go down to a club in Kilkenny and tell them they aren't real Gaa people because they don't play football.

I'd tell them no bother. Their county board are a f**king joke. How can they lay any claim to being a true GAA county when their county board treat football the way most counties treat rounders

You're right. Sure fcuk it all those All Ireland's they've won will mean nothing until they have won a football one.
Then they'll be a real GAA county. Shefflin and the rest of the boyos aren't GAA men at all. They may as well play soccer ffs, who do they even think they are playing their games in Croke Park. They should be made play in Liffey Valley car park for their horrendous crimes against Gaelic football. Shame on them.

Way to miss the point :) No one is saying the lads who hurl, or who love hurling are not GAA men. But what about the lads in Kilkenny who maybe would be interested in playing football, especially if it was taken in any way seriously.

It's all very well to have a joke of a setup, no coaching, no development work, no fixtures, and then say 'no one wants to play'.

Shefflin played a football match recently too so obviously has some interest in it...

The Kilkenny senior hurlers once beat the Kildare senior footballers in a soccer match in Thailand one year...

Quote from: imtommygunn on April 18, 2016, 01:28:45 PM
Shefflin played a football match recently too so obviously has some interest in it...

He's a real Gaa man now so.

Quote from: laoislad on April 18, 2016, 01:25:22 PM

Quote from: general_lee on April 18, 2016, 11:16:45 AM

Quote from: laoislad on April 18, 2016, 10:06:01 AM

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on April 18, 2016, 09:41:29 AM

Quote from: laoislad on April 17, 2016, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: general_lee on April 17, 2016, 09:58:40 PM
The thing with hurling is, in every county you will find people passionate about it and therefore there will be efforts made to promote it. Take Cavan for example, they don't field a team at senior level but are putting in the effort to get one back up and running. Kilkenny seem to actively discourage football and as such are not true GAA people.

;D
What a crock of shite.

Reads fine to me. They are true hurling people but would match our loyalist brethren with their contempt for football. If KK are saving 100k from not bothering their hole with football I'd remove that 100k from their funding plus a bit more and give it to GPOs who will concentrate purely on football in the schools. See them rush to field some teams then.

Good for you,I still think it's a crock of shite.
There's plenty of posters on here who have shown contempt for hurling over the years. I've never heard anyone say they aren't true GAA people.
I'd love some of you boyos to go down to a club in Kilkenny and tell them they aren't real Gaa people because they don't play football.

I'd tell them no bother. Their county board are a f**king joke. How can they lay any claim to being a true GAA county when their county board treat football the way most counties treat rounders

You're right. Sure fcuk it all those All Ireland's they've won will mean nothing until they have won a football one.
Then they'll be a real GAA county. Shefflin and the rest of the boyos aren't GAA men at all. They may as well play soccer ffs, who do they even think they are playing their games in Croke Park. They should be made play in Liffey Valley car park for their horrendous crimes against Gaelic football. Shame on them.

Or they could just promote gaelic football and stop making a mockery of it.

The game is all about winning nowadays.

Some high profile members of The Sunday Game panel (football) actively sneer at teams they think will not win in September. Kilkenny's attitude is deplorable but understandable.

Years ago it seemed we knew far more about top players from less fashionable teams. These days it seem only die-hard fans from outside Connacht will know who Emlyn Mulligan is, for example.

Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
The game is all about winning nowadays.

Some high profile members of The Sunday Game panel (football) actively sneer at teams they think will not win in September. Kilkenny's attitude is deplorable but understandable.

Years ago it seemed we knew far more about top players from less fashionable teams. These days it seem only die-hard fans from outside Connacht will know who Emlyn Mulligan is, for example.

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

I also can't agree with that last point. Because of the qualifiers there's a lot more visibility given to players like that. I'd say it was the die hards who knew who Mickey Quinn was.

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 18, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
The game is all about winning nowadays.

Some high profile members of The Sunday Game panel (football) actively sneer at teams they think will not win in September. Kilkenny's attitude is deplorable but understandable.

Years ago it seemed we knew far more about top players from less fashionable teams. These days it seem only die-hard fans from outside Connacht will know who Emlyn Mulligan is, for example.

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

I also can't agree with that last point. Because of the qualifiers there's a lot more visibility given to players like that. I'd say it was the die hards who knew who Mickey Quinn was.

Mickey Quinn has a provincial winners medal.
Mulligan doesn't (nor probably won't ever!)

Quote from: westbound on April 18, 2016, 02:51:57 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 18, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
The game is all about winning nowadays.

Some high profile members of The Sunday Game panel (football) actively sneer at teams they think will not win in September. Kilkenny's attitude is deplorable but understandable.

Years ago it seemed we knew far more about top players from less fashionable teams. These days it seem only die-hard fans from outside Connacht will know who Emlyn Mulligan is, for example.

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

I also can't agree with that last point. Because of the qualifiers there's a lot more visibility given to players like that. I'd say it was the die hards who knew who Mickey Quinn was.

Mickey Quinn has a provincial winners medal.
Mulligan doesn't (nor probably won't ever!)

That's true, but I was trying to draw a comparison with a great player in a lesser county. Let's say Kevin O'Brien from Wicklow or Dessie Barry from Longford. A 1 or two game run, followed by no qualifiers, with very little exposure on telly or social media. I'd say average to above average players are better known in the casual fan world now than they ever were.

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 18, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
The game is all about winning nowadays.

Some high profile members of The Sunday Game panel (football) actively sneer at teams they think will not win in September. Kilkenny's attitude is deplorable but understandable.

Years ago it seemed we knew far more about top players from less fashionable teams. These days it seem only die-hard fans from outside Connacht will know who Emlyn Mulligan is, for example.

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

I also can't agree with that last point. Because of the qualifiers there's a lot more visibility given to players like that. I'd say it was the die hards who knew who Mickey Quinn was.

Used to play centre forward for Coventry.

And Newcastle.

Quickest man over five yards.

Simple solution would be to force every county to spend a minimum of (say) 150k spend on preparing hurling or football teams in a given year. Make it tightly audited so stunts can't be pulled where the money can't be siphoned off to the favoured sport.

So Kilkenny have to spend X amount of the footballers (training sessions, camps, gyms) and they can't be pulling stunts like comprising the football panel of a shadow hurling panel.
You'd see Kilkenny improve in football, as much as they don't like it and a decent rising of standards in about 15 lower ranking hurling counties.

Kilkenny's making a mockery of things.  There's nothing particularly smart about sending a bunch of lads out to get humiliated like that. 

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/nobody-envisioned-what-would-happen-kilkenny-chairman-apologises-to-minor-footballers-after-wexford-drubbing-34637621.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/nobody-envisioned-what-would-happen-kilkenny-chairman-apologises-to-minor-footballers-after-wexford-drubbing-34637621.html)

'Quinn insisted that the team had put in the adequate time and effort prior to the defeat, but admitted developing football in such a hurling stronghold has proved an onerous endeavour.
"In the lead up to the game, by our own standards, preparations had gone well. Nobody envisaged what was about to happen but it did happen on the day and I would apologise to everybody for that. I will say in the GAA in Kilkenny that over the years we've got a lot of things right.
"We have never been able to get football to where we'd like to get it to and we will have to deal with these issues starting tomorrow night, when we will have an executive meeting of the management committee of the county board," Quinn said.'

I'd have to respectfully disagree with Ned there...

Quote from: Jinxy on April 18, 2016, 04:37:25 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/nobody-envisioned-what-would-happen-kilkenny-chairman-apologises-to-minor-footballers-after-wexford-drubbing-34637621.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/nobody-envisioned-what-would-happen-kilkenny-chairman-apologises-to-minor-footballers-after-wexford-drubbing-34637621.html)

'Quinn insisted that the team had put in the adequate time and effort prior to the defeat, but admitted developing football in such a hurling stronghold has proved an onerous endeavour.
In the lead up to the game, by our own standards, preparations had gone well. Nobody envisaged what was about to happen but it did happen on the day and I would apologise to everybody for that. I will say in the GAA in Kilkenny that over the years we've got a lot of things right.
"We have never been able to get football to where we'd like to get it to and we will have to deal with these issues starting tomorrow night, when we will have an executive meeting of the management committee of the county board," Quinn said.'




I'd have to respectfully disagree with Ned there...

Yeah, they'd like to get it to Canada or somewhere like that.

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 18, 2016, 02:58:17 PM

Quote from: westbound on April 18, 2016, 02:51:57 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 18, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
The game is all about winning nowadays.

Some high profile members of The Sunday Game panel (football) actively sneer at teams they think will not win in September. Kilkenny's attitude is deplorable but understandable.

Years ago it seemed we knew far more about top players from less fashionable teams. These days it seem only die-hard fans from outside Connacht will know who Emlyn Mulligan is, for example.

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

I also can't agree with that last point. Because of the qualifiers there's a lot more visibility given to players like that. I'd say it was the die hards who knew who Mickey Quinn was.

Mickey Quinn has a provincial winners medal.
Mulligan doesn't (nor probably won't ever!)

That's true, but I was trying to draw a comparison with a great player in a lesser county. Let's say Kevin O'Brien from Wicklow or Dessie Barry from Longford. A 1 or two game run, followed by no qualifiers, with very little exposure on telly or social media. I'd say average to above average players are better known in the casual fan world now than they ever were.

Yeah Sorry, I wasn't trying to disagree with your point.

Was only stating a fact (for no good reason really!!!)

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 18, 2016, 02:58:17 PM

Quote from: westbound on April 18, 2016, 02:51:57 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 18, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
The game is all about winning nowadays.

Some high profile members of The Sunday Game panel (football) actively sneer at teams they think will not win in September. Kilkenny's attitude is deplorable but understandable.

Years ago it seemed we knew far more about top players from less fashionable teams. These days it seem only die-hard fans from outside Connacht will know who Emlyn Mulligan is, for example.

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

I also can't agree with that last point. Because of the qualifiers there's a lot more visibility given to players like that. I'd say it was the die hards who knew who Mickey Quinn was.

Mickey Quinn has a provincial winners medal.
Mulligan doesn't (nor probably won't ever!)

That's true, but I was trying to draw a comparison with a great player in a lesser county. Let's say Kevin O'Brien from Wicklow or Dessie Barry from Longford. A 1 or two game run, followed by no qualifiers, with very little exposure on telly or social media. I'd say average to above average players are better known in the casual fan world now than they ever were.

I do agree that a few years ago the qualifiers gave him, Mattie Forde, Declan Browne etc more exposure, but I think the qualifiers are ignored by many nowadays. It is all about who wins in September and the rest is irrelevant.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0418/782600-kilkenny/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0418/782600-kilkenny/)

Kilkenny chairman apologises to county's minor footballers after annihilation by Wexford

Kilkenny chairman Ned Quinn took to the airwaves this morning to apologise to the county's minor footballers after they were mauled by their Wexford counterparts in their Leinster championship encounter at Nowlan Park on Sunday.
Wexford inflicted a 17-20 to 0-01 defeat on a county where hurling has long enjoyed a stranglehold.
Speaking on KLCR FM, Quinn told listeners: "As chairman of the county board, I have overall responsibility for all of our county teams, so I accept my responsibilities as regards our minor football team as I do with any other team."
"The second thing I would like to say, with the aid of hindsight, is to express very much regret that the young players who represented our county and were more than willing to represent their county last Saturday suffered the defeat that they did and I will apologise to them for what happened to them during the game on Saturday."


For balance.

Would the players themselves be that bothered though?

Quote from: Jinxy on April 19, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
Would the players themselves be that bothered though?

Those sort of scores would not be unusual at under 8 matches if one team had the 2 good lads

Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2016, 02:49:09 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on April 19, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
Would the players themselves be that bothered though?

Those sort of scores would not be unusual at under 8 matches if one team had the 2 good lads

Usually brothers, the one with the beard is usually not as good as the smoker, but the important bit is that they are usually from an island off the west coast where there was no valid birth.

Say nahin lads.

If these fellas start to take the football seriously we're in big trouble.

With Kilkenny's attitude to Gaelic Football there can be no justification for fixing money-spinning Leinster SFC matches such as Dublin V Laois/Wicklow in Nowlan Park.

I'm not taking sides in the rights or wrongs of their position on Gaelic Football but merely pointing out that it is unfair that counties such as Laois/Wicklow, who promote and invest in both hurling and football, should lose out on plum fixtures. Kilkenny County Board and local businesses in the city will profit handsomely from this visit of the Dubs with a full house guaranteed.

Quote from: The Boy Wonder on April 20, 2016, 08:10:38 PM
With Kilkenny's attitude to Gaelic Football there can be no justification for fixing money-spinning Leinster SFC matches such as Dublin V Laois/Wicklow in Nowlan Park.

I'm not taking sides in the rights or wrongs of their position on Gaelic Football but merely pointing out that it is unfair that counties such as Laois/Wicklow, who promote and invest in both hurling and football, should lose out on plum fixtures. Kilkenny County Board and local businesses in the city will profit handsomely from this visit of the Dubs with a full house guaranteed.

Are you sure?

http://www.hoganstand.com/Wicklow/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=253625 (http://www.hoganstand.com/Wicklow/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=253625)

The first county senior champions of 2016 have been crowned. Next game is in the Leinster Intermediate Championship in October!

At least they don't be Pussy footing trying to please everyone for the rest of the year?

http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=254453 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=254453)

'It saw Railyard defeat Kilmoganny 1-8 to 2-3 to complete a three-in-a-row of Kilkenny SFC titles.
The winners grabbed an early goal before Kilmoganny replied with a couple of Ronan Coffey majors to go into the break on level terms, 2-1 to 1-4.'

Jesus.
This reads like a report from a Go Games blitz.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/top-small-ball-aficionados-stick-the-boot-in-25992846.html

Ó Muircheartaigh recalled how former Waterford great Ned Power claimed that there were 129 skills in hurling, Kelleher chipped in that football had just two - catch and kick!

Kelleher spoke of how only 'special people' hurled because hurling was such a special game.

The blows kept coming and the big hitters were waiting. "It doesn't interfere with us in Kilkenny and that's the way it should be," said Cody.
"They are two totally different games. Hurling is strong in Kilkenny and it just can't sustain both games. We get all sorts of flak about it from Croke Park. We're told now that we have to enter teams in the Tommy Murphy Cup this year.

"I'm speaking for myself but we're not interested in playing football at any major level in Kilkenny. We compete at underage level play our schools competitions and it's grand. Fellas enjoy it. But we're a hurling county and we intend staying that way."

More fluffy hurling nonsense. Hurling is much more of a lump it up the field game than football. Less room for strategy. That's both a strength and a weakness.

Quote from: Syferus on May 10, 2016, 08:10:21 AM
More fluffy hurling nonsense. Hurling is much more of a lump it up the field game than football. Less room for strategy. That's both a strength and a weakness.

It's a much more skillful game Syf. Strategically the 2 sports may be similar.

Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2016, 09:11:18 AM

Quote from: Syferus on May 10, 2016, 08:10:21 AM
More fluffy hurling nonsense. Hurling is much more of a lump it up the field game than football. Less room for strategy. That's both a strength and a weakness.

It's a much more skillful game Syf. Strategically the 2 sports may be similar.

As someone from a hurling area in a footballing county, I find the ignorance of those from the hurling elite towards to rest of us ploughing a lone furrow disheartening at times as they in their narrow mindedness don't see what the reversed implications are for us in footballing counties when they open their mouths and spout this shite.
Every once in a while a crumb is thrown out from the hurling powers and then quickly reeled back in when it doesn't suit their own needs!



But hurling has a problem with football that isn't reciprocated to the same degree.

I also don't agree that this is true. There's plenty of football people who won't give hurling the light of day and are in positions of power.

Hurling is football's better looking sister that never leaves the house.

Quote from: Jinxy on May 10, 2016, 11:53:51 AM
Hurling is football's better looking sister that never leaves the house.

Football is no show pony but she'll do for the ride

This is a great ould video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f7oIJVVCLA

Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2016, 09:11:18 AM

Quote from: Syferus on May 10, 2016, 08:10:21 AM
More fluffy hurling nonsense. Hurling is much more of a lump it up the field game than football. Less room for strategy. That's both a strength and a weakness.

It's a much more skillful game Syf. Strategically the 2 sports may be similar.

Don't agree with this at all and oddly even many football people buy into. Hurling is more challenging to become competent at but that's largely due to controlling the ball, once you have though it's, in many ways, a much easier game to play than football. Scoring, soloing and passing are all easier to do than in football.

That's what I always say. It's easier to be a bad footballer, than a bad hurler. But to be a good footballer you need as much practice and skills as a good hurler.

It requires more skill to score a point in football or a goal in football than hurling and that is applied to all levels. So when the main purpose of any sport is to outscore the opposition the main skill will always be the ability to score, the likes of Cooper, Connolly, O'Donoghue, Brogan, McManus etc all play their game to a much higher standard that any inter-county hurler.

I don't like blanket statements like that. To jab lift a ball on the run, solo it, balanced on a piece of ash, while someone tries to knock it off your hurley, or unbalance you, followed by a strike off the hurley, or from the hands while pirouetting away from a block is pretty spectacular as a skill.

That said, a lovely fetch, sidestep and solo run, followed by a dummy and a point off the outside of the boot, is also a spectacular skill. They are just different skills.

I think what the hurling fraternity struggle with is the concept that 'anyone can kick an auld football'. That is true, and that's why I say it is easier to be a bad footballer than a bad hurler. If you pulled a 20 year old out of the crowd that had never played GAA and asked him to play corner forward on a gaelic football team, he'd make a show of himself but chances are he's kicked a ball around a playground, so if he found himself with the ball he'd at least be able to kick it out of his way.

If you put the same lad in corner forward on a hurling team, I think he'd be like a fish out of water, and more than likely get a savage belt.

However, to make that lad into a good hurler or footballer would require the same amount of practice and skills perfection as the other.  They are just different skills.

Stupid discussing this to be fair.... 2 different games that just so happen to be played on the same pitch with the same scores and numbers of players used... Either you like one over the other or you like them both equally.... having played both you tend to side with one as you get older and it dominates your interests...

What I cant have is non hurlers/footballers saying, this is surely better than that... its all about preference

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 10, 2016, 01:54:16 PM
I don't like blanket statements like that. To jab lift a ball on the run, solo it, balanced on a piece of ash, while someone tries to knock it off your hurley, or unbalance you, followed by a strike off the hurley, or from the hands while pirouetting away from a block is pretty spectacular as a skill.

That said, a lovely fetch, sidestep and solo run, followed by a dummy and a point off the outside of the boot, is also a spectacular skill. They are just different skills.

I think what the hurling fraternity struggle with is the concept that 'anyone can kick an auld football'. That is true, and that's why I say it is easier to be a bad footballer than a bad hurler. If you pulled a 20 year old out of the crowd that had never played GAA and asked him to play corner forward on a gaelic football team, he'd make a show of himself but chances are he's kicked a ball around a playground, so if he found himself with the ball he'd at least be able to kick it out of his way.

If you put the same lad in corner forward on a hurling team, I think he'd be like a fish out of water, and more than likely get a savage belt.

However, to make that lad into a good hurler or footballer would require the same amount of practice and skills perfection as the other.  They are just different skills.

or while a cute KK defender is manfully poking the hurl into your facial protection while the ref (Barry Kelly) isn't looking

Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 10, 2016, 01:48:46 PM
It requires more skill to score a point in football or a goal in football than hurling and that is applied to all levels. So when the main purpose of any sport is to outscore the opposition the main skill will always be the ability to score, the likes of Cooper, Connolly, O'Donoghue, Brogan, McManus etc all play their game to a much higher standard that any inter-county hurler.

Football is easier to blanket. It has become more negative, a bit like soccer.
Hurling is harder to pin down like that. So scores are more fluirseach, maybe
Atletico would not be  good hurling team.

Waterford are making a decent fist if it.

I never really played hurling, but I always felt it took more time and effort to master/perfect the skills than football. Granted I'm not in a good place to judge; but it'd be far easier for a new comer to take to the big ball than the wee ball no?

I watched both the drawn and replayed hurling finals and for two supposedly 'tactical' teams, there was some amount of brainless decision-making.
Nothing annoys me more than a fella making a great catch in hurling, then getting all excited and driving the ball down the field straight to an opposition player.
Actually, that's incorrect.
Nothing annoys me more than this fist-pumping nonsense whenever someone wins a free.
Actually, that's incorrect too.
Nothing annoys me more than Davy Fitz doing his 'angry toddler in the Tesco confectionary aisle' routine on the sideline.

QuoteIf you pulled a 20 year old out of the crowd that had never played GAA and asked him to play corner forward on a gaelic football team, he'd make a show of himself but chances are he's kicked a ball around a playground, so if he found himself with the ball he'd at least be able to kick it out of his way.

So he already has some football skills mastered not comparing like to like, in your example chances are a young Canadian kid who has just played hockey would pick up hurling a lot quicker than he would football as he would master stick/puc/ball eye co-ordination.

I agree it's a pointless argument but a pure numbers game the skill level in football is higher as the more the participants in a sport the higher the skill, hence Soccer > Cricket > Basketball > Hockey > Baseball > Rugby > Football > Hurling. 

Quote from: Jinxy on May 10, 2016, 03:42:47 PM
I watched both the drawn and replayed hurling finals and for two supposedly 'tactical' teams, there was some amount of brainless decision-making.
Nothing annoys me more than a fella making a great catch in hurling, then getting all excited and driving the ball down the field straight to an opposition player.
Actually, that's incorrect.
Nothing annoys me more than this fist-pumping nonsense whenever someone wins a free.
Actually, that's incorrect too.
Nothing annoys me more than Davy Fitz doing his 'angry toddler in the Tesco confectionary aisle' routine on the sideline.

Excellent point Jinx... f**k the Hurling lads fair love an aul free!!!

Quote from: Jinxy on May 10, 2016, 03:42:47 PM
I watched both the drawn and replayed hurling finals and for two supposedly 'tactical' teams, there was some amount of brainless decision-making.
Nothing annoys me more than a fella making a great catch in hurling, then getting all excited and driving the ball down the field straight to an opposition player.
Actually, that's incorrect.
Nothing annoys me more than this fist-pumping nonsense whenever someone wins a free.
Actually, that's incorrect too.
Nothing annoys me more than Davy Fitz doing his 'angry toddler in the Tesco confectionary aisle' routine on the sideline.

We all have annoyances... plenty of fist punching in football, plenty of aimless passes in football, players missing 21 yard frees is criminal ... plenty of great fielding in football but when he comes down with the ball he over carries it or loses it in the tackle.... forty hand passes before a team takes a score with the foot... 15 men behind the ball.... goal keepers (in both) taking frees or 45/70's .. players running through players in a tackle... then all the cynical stuff too!!

There's not enough fist punching in football if you ask me.

Quote from: screenexile on May 10, 2016, 03:49:51 PM

Quote from: Jinxy on May 10, 2016, 03:42:47 PM
I watched both the drawn and replayed hurling finals and for two supposedly 'tactical' teams, there was some amount of brainless decision-making.
Nothing annoys me more than a fella making a great catch in hurling, then getting all excited and driving the ball down the field straight to an opposition player.
Actually, that's incorrect.
Nothing annoys me more than this fist-pumping nonsense whenever someone wins a free.
Actually, that's incorrect too.
Nothing annoys me more than Davy Fitz doing his 'angry toddler in the Tesco confectionary aisle' routine on the sideline.

Excellent point Jinx... f**k the Hurling lads fair love an aul free!!!

Because a free in 2/3rd's of a pitch is scoreable, but at the same time those Clare and Waterford lads do love a fist pump!!

In terms of watching hurling on the TV, the game can move end to end so quickly that the cameraman misses the positional runs of attackers and one mistimed run can result what looks like a terribly hit pass, still happens the odd time, but can look a lot worse and stupid on TV than being at the game!

Truth be told hurling referees are really going to have to clamp down on the pulling, dragging and overcarrying thats going on now or we'll end up with even more bunching that we're seeing today!

Quote from: general_lee on May 10, 2016, 03:22:54 PM
I never really played hurling, but I always felt it took more time and effort to master/perfect the skills than football. Granted I'm not in a good place to judge; but it'd be far easier for a new comer to take to the big ball than the wee ball no?

See, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that either. It's easier to make a fist of football but to master it, well I'd suggest it's as difficult as any game. I often find it odd when commentators criticise players by saying things like 'that's a terrible miss or he gave an awful ball' when I'm sitting there thinking what he tried to do isn't actually that easy. Likewise, I've seen some examples of stupendous skill that is hardly acknowledged by the commentators. Ciaran Kilkenny's pass to Brogan for his goal attempt against Mayo in the All Ireland semi final of 2012 (I think) springs to mind as a truly wonderful pass that wasn't commented on at all.

I think many football people underestimate the skills of the game, not to mind the hurling crowd.

Quote from: johnneycool on May 10, 2016, 04:23:07 PM




Truth be told hurling referees are really going to have to clamp down on the pulling, dragging and overcarrying thats going on

:o

Clean out your mouth Johnny ;D ;D

Quote from: Jinxy on May 10, 2016, 03:42:47 PM
I watched both the drawn and replayed hurling finals and for two supposedly 'tactical' teams, there was some amount of brainless decision-making.
Nothing annoys me more than a fella making a great catch in hurling, then getting all excited and driving the ball down the field straight to an opposition player.
Actually, that's incorrect.
Nothing annoys me more than this fist-pumping nonsense whenever someone wins a free.
Actually, that's incorrect too.
Nothing annoys me more than Davy Fitz doing his 'angry toddler in the Tesco confectionary aisle' routine on the sideline.

fist pumping against KK is unadvisable

Think Galway broke the world fist-pump record in the first half against them last year.

Fist pumping is great and so is hurling. What a pointless debate going on here. Both games can be great at times and great players have existed in both codes. Comparing the talent of players based on the skills set of one individual hurler with another individual footballers is utter nonsense. A fair debate might be 'is podge collins a better hurler than he is a footballer' and why? But of course that debate will deteriorate into... Is hurling better than football bla bla bla..

Quote from: Jinxy on May 02, 2016, 04:13:36 PM
'It saw Railyard defeat Kilmoganny 1-8 to 2-3 to complete a three-in-a-row of Kilkenny SFC titles.
The winners grabbed an early goal before Kilmoganny replied with a couple of Ronan Coffey majors to go into the break on level terms, 2-1 to 1-4.'

Jesus.
This reads like a report from a Go Games blitz.

Congrats to Railyard on their county title. It ended up a big night in Castlecomer.