I have just about got fed up listening to the IFA moan on about players who have been born in NI declaring for the Republic. The latest drivel has been spouted today by new NI manager M O Neill. His rational was that lads would get more play time with NI than the republic. Does he not understand why these guys are declaring for the Republic? Its not about prestige or game time its about deep rooted cultural differences. Take Mc Clean and Gibson. Both are from Derry Citry. Both come from working class nationlist housing estates- Creggan and Hazelbank. Nobody ever walks around these areas wearing NI jerseys, in fact it would go down like a lead ballon. NORTHERN NATIONALISTS IN THE MAIN CONSIDER THEMSELVES IRISH NOT BRITISH. They do never feel comfortable or welcome standing in Windsor Park listening to God Save The Queen and facing the Union Jack. I could go on on but I wont. Other northern nationalists have and will continue to play for the North but those that dont want to should not be made feel guilty about feeling Irish and playing for the Republic
Does Jimmy Floyd know there is a housing estate in Derry named after him?
Oh good. I do not believe this topic has ever been raised on the board before.
Quote from: AFS on January 05, 2012, 01:23:20 AM
Oh good. I do not believe this topic has ever been raised on the board before.
:D
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I don't believe 15-16 year old school boys have much if any choice but to play for NI as the FAI does not offer routes to play for the Rep through schools in the 6 counties
Could be wrong though
I would have thought that representation (at schoolboy/youth level) was determined by the team you play for and the league you play in, and not confined to these parts.
Quote from: angermanagement on January 05, 2012, 09:09:36 AM
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I cant resist been trivial at times, but you have used the wrong there/their in your post. But on a more serious note, you can hardly blame an underage player for not always been able to make the choices he/she wants. I also don't think the same opportunities/rules are there at underage.
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on January 05, 2012, 09:09:36 AM
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I cant resist been trivial at times, but you have used the wrong there/their in your post. But on a more serious note, you can hardly blame an underage player for not always been able to make the choices he/she wants. I also don't think the same opportunities/rules are there at underage.
I can't resist either. You've used the wrong been/being in
your post.
:P
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
Good point. These lads are mercenaries and will play for the best available team.
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2012, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
Good point. These lads are mercenaries and will play for the best available team.
anyone with 6000 plus posts could not be a mercenary anyhow-you must be a dole sponger :D
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
If McClean was a hardcore nationalist why did he play for NI at U21?
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
National identity as expressed by choosing to play for the FAI, is a political allegiance?
Quite frankly Rav, I doubt that you have one iota why any player born outside the 26 counties has chosen to play for the FAI.
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on January 05, 2012, 09:09:36 AM
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I cant resist been trivial at times, but you have used the wrong there/their in your post. But on a more serious note, you can hardly blame an underage player for not always been able to make the choices he/she wants. I also don't think the same opportunities/rules are there at underage.
I can't resist either. You've used the wrong been/being in your post.
:P
Fair Play, ha ha, cant believe I missed that, especially after posting such a puerile post- are you sure you havent got some super IT skills and changed that post on me?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2012, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
If McClean was a hardcore nationalist why did he play for NI at U21?
I didnt use the word hardcore. I said he was a nationalist. It is only in recent times that Northern Nationalists have been aware of their rights as nationalists to play for the Republic.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:06:00 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2012, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
If McClean was a hardcore nationalist why did he play for NI at U21?
I didnt use the word hardcore. I said he was a nationalist. It is only in recent times that Northern Nationalists have been aware of their rights as nationalists to play for the Republic.
[/b]
Do you have to be a nationalist to play for the Republic or can any "northerner" choose to play for them? ;)
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on January 05, 2012, 09:09:36 AM
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I cant resist been trivial at times, but you have used the wrong there/their in your post. But on a more serious note, you can hardly blame an underage player for not always been able to make the choices he/she wants. I also don't think the same opportunities/rules are there at underage.
I can't resist either. You've used the wrong been/being in your post.
:P
Fair Play, ha ha, cant believe I missed that, especially after posting such a puerile post- are you sure you havent got some super IT skills and changed that post on me?
I don't. And it isn't me that's stealing your apostrophes either.
Playing for either team is not a political statement. Players should play for where they're from.
Having said that, Mr Armstrong is becoming more of an Eejit every time he appears in the press: he is in favour of retaining GSTQ as the song played for the NI team, yet in an interview in Derry referred to the "north of Ireland". That and expressing an interest in managing the NI team, despite not having the requisite coaching badges.
A quite bizarre individual.
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 08:26:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on January 05, 2012, 09:09:36 AM
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I cant resist been trivial at times, but you have used the wrong there/their in your post. But on a more serious note, you can hardly blame an underage player for not always been able to make the choices he/she wants. I also don't think the same opportunities/rules are there at underage.
I can't resist either. You've used the wrong been/being in your post.
:P
Fair Play, ha ha, cant believe I missed that, especially after posting such a puerile post- are you sure you havent got some super IT skills and changed that post on me?
I don't. And it isn't me that's stealing your apostrophes either.
Cant be bothered with apostrophes or can't be bothered if that keeps you happy
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:48:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 08:26:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on January 05, 2012, 09:09:36 AM
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I cant resist been trivial at times, but you have used the wrong there/their in your post. But on a more serious note, you can hardly blame an underage player for not always been able to make the choices he/she wants. I also don't think the same opportunities/rules are there at underage.
I can't resist either. You've used the wrong been/being in your post.
:P
Fair Play, ha ha, cant believe I missed that, especially after posting such a puerile post- are you sure you havent got some super IT skills and changed that post on me?
I don't. And it isn't me that's stealing your apostrophes either.
Cant be bothered with apostrophes or can't be bothered if that keeps you happy
You're shy of the old full stops too.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2012, 09:01:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:48:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 08:26:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on January 05, 2012, 09:09:36 AM
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I cant resist been trivial at times, but you have used the wrong there/their in your post. But on a more serious note, you can hardly blame an underage player for not always been able to make the choices he/she wants. I also don't think the same opportunities/rules are there at underage.
I can't resist either. You've used the wrong been/being in your post.
:P
Fair Play, ha ha, cant believe I missed that, especially after posting such a puerile post- are you sure you havent got some super IT skills and changed that post on me?
I don't. And it isn't me that's stealing your apostrophes either.
Cant be bothered with apostrophes or can't be bothered if that keeps you happy
You're shy of the old full stops too.
:D
Well played lads!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2012, 09:01:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:48:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 08:26:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 05, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on January 05, 2012, 09:09:36 AM
If they feel so strongly why do they all play underage football for the North, yes fair play to them if they make the choice but many of them have wore the shirt for years and it didn't seem to affect there culture at the time.
I cant resist been trivial at times, but you have used the wrong there/their in your post. But on a more serious note, you can hardly blame an underage player for not always been able to make the choices he/she wants. I also don't think the same opportunities/rules are there at underage.
I can't resist either. You've used the wrong been/being in your post.
:P
Fair Play, ha ha, cant believe I missed that, especially after posting such a puerile post- are you sure you havent got some super IT skills and changed that post on me?
I don't. And it isn't me that's stealing your apostrophes either.
Cant be bothered with apostrophes or can't be bothered if that keeps you happy
You're shy of the old full stops too.
I was afraid to use one because I wasn't sure of the difference between an old full stop and a new full stop. ;D
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
As someone not from a Nationalist background, I was wondering why specifically it is not a comfortable place for Nationalists. Putting aside, I assume, your desire for the N.Ireland football team not to exist in the first place, is it the anthem or playing at Windsor Park which is the biggest issue? With respect to the anthem, to me it is always a bit of a damp squib / irrelevance with most folk not even bothering to sing. Personally I reckon Danny Boy or some other neutral tune should be played in place of the dirge that is GSTQ. As for playing games at Windsor Park, do you feel threatened attending as a Nationalist? Although admittedly located on the edge of the Village, it also adjacent to and accessible from the Lisburn Road which is now a mixed area populated by students, young professionals, foreign nationals etc.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on January 05, 2012, 08:39:09 PM
Playing for either team is not a political statement. Players should play for where they're from.
International football is essentially about nationality. Location is just one aspect.
Location/birth place does not restrict a person's national identity.
Because you're born in the 6 counties, then you should only be a British national?
International football is about nationality not location and nationality is not restricted to a location.
So basically, if you want to have "players should play for where they're from" what you're really saying is that you want the central ethos of international football eligibility statutes be ditched and a new one adopted.
SS2, I suggest you ponder about your suggestion a bit more.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2012, 08:15:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 08:06:00 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2012, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
If McClean was a hardcore nationalist why did he play for NI at U21?
I didnt use the word hardcore. I said he was a nationalist. It is only in recent times that Northern Nationalists have been aware of their rights as nationalists to play for the Republic.
[/b]
Do you have to be a nationalist to play for the Republic or can any "northerner" choose to play for them? ;)
Any northerner can play of course. Even a Unionist from Malin Head or Ballymena if that is what they feel comfortable with. It is just i an unfortunate truth that Windsor Park is and always has been a cold house for nationalists so they prefer now to play for the Republic.
Quote from: michaelg on January 05, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
As someone not from a Nationalist background, I was wondering why specifically it is not a comfortable place for Nationalists. Putting aside, I assume, your desire for the N.Ireland football team not to exist in the first place, is it the anthem or playing at Windsor Park which is the biggest issue? With respect to the anthem, to me it is always a bit of a damp squib / irrelevance with most folk not even bothering to sing. Personally I reckon Danny Boy or some other neutral tune should be played in place of the dirge that is GSTQ. As for playing games at Windsor Park, do you feel threatened attending as a Nationalist? Although admittedly located on the edge of the Village, it also adjacent to and accessible from the Lisburn Road which is now a mixed area populated by students, young professionals, foreign nationals etc.
What age are you? Where are you from? You are seriously saying that you have never seen the UDA Flags at Windsor or heard the Billy Boys amongst other sectarian shite sang at Windsor? I probably would prefer if NI didn't exist as a statelet, but if we are to put up with it for another 90 or so years the anthem, flags and venue need to change as you said to something more neutral. I had friends forced out the Lisburn Road too whilst living in Belfast as students because one of them was ill informed enough to wear a GAA jersey
you will be a great addition to the board.
Quote from: michaelg on January 05, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
As someone not from a Nationalist background, I was wondering why specifically it is not a comfortable place for Nationalists. Putting aside, I assume, your desire for the N.Ireland football team not to exist in the first place, is it the anthem or playing at Windsor Park which is the biggest issue? With respect to the anthem, to me it is always a bit of a damp squib / irrelevance with most folk not even bothering to sing. Personally I reckon Danny Boy or some other neutral tune should be played in place of the dirge that is GSTQ. As for playing games at Windsor Park, do you feel threatened attending as a Nationalist? Although admittedly located on the edge of the Village, it also adjacent to and accessible from the Lisburn Road which is now a mixed area populated by students, young professionals, foreign nationals etc.
Went once in 1996 v Albania. Anthem came on and men drapped in Union Jacks shouted 'get up' and gestured to me and my mate. I was shitting myself. I dont see it as an international team--more as a farce--from the team, to the fans who believe Northern IRELAND is england, UK or whatever i dont know what they think, to the shit stadium with crap floodlights that would hardly light a street not to mention commentators with their "at this level it's a case of slow slow, quick quick, one-two and your in". The walkway into the stadium is a dark, frightening, hole.
I sound bigoted but i just dont understand it. Everyone likes Ireland and the Irish. What about the English? Watch Braveheart-- hard to like them yet half the population here wants to pretend they're English and talk about Norwich as if it's closer and more relevant than Longford.
Why should McClean play for NI --i've ranted before re what do we do--when the scorched earth tactics are being used do we give up that day? Do we wait a week then give up and say it's yours, 2 weeks, 2 years, 200, 700 years?
If i made it in Soccer i'd play for ROI and if not good enough i'd play for noone. I know a player who played for years for NI but he and his family were mad about ROI. During Italia 90 he was the biggest fan--he then played his best for NI but never loved them.
An Ireland team like in Running, Basketball, Cycling, Cricket, Rugby, Golf is the way forward.
Yes, Gerry and Michael are off their heads--they dont believe what they're saying. They're scared to offend people by telling the truth and saying that at the very least GSTQ has to go. They know it's about culture and a deep rooted historical issue but try and fool us into thinking it's about playing time. It's a cold-house for catholics, compounded by the anthem and supporters capable of giving death threats to Lennon, night in November, killing you etc. Why wouldnt fans want their own anthem? Look at Scotland, Wales, yet the fools at Windsor want to hang on to the tailcoats of another land saying "we're England."
I just dont know
Quote from: Gold on January 05, 2012, 11:45:38 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 05, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
As someone not from a Nationalist background, I was wondering why specifically it is not a comfortable place for Nationalists. Putting aside, I assume, your desire for the N.Ireland football team not to exist in the first place, is it the anthem or playing at Windsor Park which is the biggest issue? With respect to the anthem, to me it is always a bit of a damp squib / irrelevance with most folk not even bothering to sing. Personally I reckon Danny Boy or some other neutral tune should be played in place of the dirge that is GSTQ. As for playing games at Windsor Park, do you feel threatened attending as a Nationalist? Although admittedly located on the edge of the Village, it also adjacent to and accessible from the Lisburn Road which is now a mixed area populated by students, young professionals, foreign nationals etc.
Went once in 1996 v Albania. Anthem came on and men drapped in Union Jacks shouted 'get up' and gestured to me and my mate. I was shitting myself. I dont see it as an international team--more as a farce--from the team, to the fans who believe Northern IRELAND is england, UK or whatever i dont know what they think, to the shit stadium with crap floodlights that would hardly light a street not to mention commentators with their "at this level it's a case of slow slow, quick quick, one-two and your in". The walkway into the stadium is a dark, frightening, hole.
I sound bigoted but i just dont understand it. Everyone likes Ireland and the Irish. What about the English? Watch Braveheart-- hard to like them yet half the population here wants to pretend they're English and talk about Norwich as if it's closer and more relevant than Longford.
Why should McClean play for NI --i've ranted before re what do we do--when the scorched earth tactics are being used do we give up that day? Do we wait a week then give up and say it's yours, 2 weeks, 2 years, 200, 700 years?
If i made it in Soccer i'd play for ROI and if not good enough i'd play for noone. I know a player who played for years for NI but he and his family were mad about ROI. During Italia 90 he was the biggest fan--he then played his best for NI but never loved them.
An Ireland team like in Running, Basketball, Cycling, Cricket, Rugby, Golf is the way forward.
Yes, Gerry and Michael are off their heads--they dont believe what they're saying. They're scared to offend people by telling the truth and saying that at the very least GSTQ has to go. They know it's about culture and a deep rooted historical issue but try and fool us into thinking it's about playing time. It's a cold-house for catholics, compounded by the anthem and supporters capable of giving death threats to Lennon, night in November, killing you etc. Why wouldnt fans want their own anthem? Look at Scotland, Wales, yet the fools at Windsor want to hang on to the tailcoats of another land saying "we're England."
I just dont know
Gerry will say whatever is asked of him by the people paying him.
You've also left any apostrophe out in "dont" above.
Quote from: Gold on January 05, 2012, 11:45:38 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 05, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
As someone not from a Nationalist background, I was wondering why specifically it is not a comfortable place for Nationalists. Putting aside, I assume, your desire for the N.Ireland football team not to exist in the first place, is it the anthem or playing at Windsor Park which is the biggest issue? With respect to the anthem, to me it is always a bit of a damp squib / irrelevance with most folk not even bothering to sing. Personally I reckon Danny Boy or some other neutral tune should be played in place of the dirge that is GSTQ. As for playing games at Windsor Park, do you feel threatened attending as a Nationalist? Although admittedly located on the edge of the Village, it also adjacent to and accessible from the Lisburn Road which is now a mixed area populated by students, young professionals, foreign nationals etc.
Went once in 1996 v Albania. Anthem came on and men drapped in Union Jacks shouted 'get up' and gestured to me and my mate. I was shitting myself. I dont see it as an international team--more as a farce--from the team, to the fans who believe Northern IRELAND is england, UK or whatever i dont know what they think, to the shit stadium with crap floodlights that would hardly light a street not to mention commentators with their "at this level it's a case of slow slow, quick quick, one-two and your in". The walkway into the stadium is a dark, frightening, hole.
I sound bigoted but i just dont understand it. Everyone likes Ireland and the Irish. What about the English? Watch Braveheart-- hard to like them yet half the population here wants to pretend they're English and talk about Norwich as if it's closer and more relevant than Longford.
Why should McClean play for NI --i've ranted before re what do we do--when the scorched earth tactics are being used do we give up that day? Do we wait a week then give up and say it's yours, 2 weeks, 2 years, 200, 700 years?
If i made it in Soccer i'd play for ROI and if not good enough i'd play for noone. I know a player who played for years for NI but he and his family were mad about ROI. During Italia 90 he was the biggest fan--he then played his best for NI but never loved them.
An Ireland team like in Running, Basketball, Cycling, Cricket, Rugby, Golf is the way forward.
Yes, Gerry and Michael are off their heads--they dont believe what they're saying. They're scared to offend people by telling the truth and saying that at the very least GSTQ has to go. They know it's about culture and a deep rooted historical issue but try and fool us into thinking it's about playing time. It's a cold-house for catholics, compounded by the anthem and supporters capable of giving death threats to Lennon, night in November, killing you etc. Why wouldnt fans want their own anthem? Look at Scotland, Wales, yet the fools at Windsor want to hang on to the tailcoats of another land saying "we're England."
I just dont know
well said!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2012, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: Gold on January 05, 2012, 11:45:38 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 05, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2012, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: Rav67 on January 05, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
It's not JUST about political allegiances. If NI were a better team than Republic and were the ones with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments then plenty of the same boys would have opted for NI instead, the same way as they gravitate towards the best league/club they can play in/for.
You are right its not. But I know that with Gibson and Mc Clean its because they were brought up as nationalists in households where NI matches were turned over and everyone always supported the Republic. Mc Clean was in a local paper today in Derry saying that it has always been his dream to play for the Republic. Have you ever been at an NI match? Its not a comfortable place if you are a Nationalist.
As someone not from a Nationalist background, I was wondering why specifically it is not a comfortable place for Nationalists. Putting aside, I assume, your desire for the N.Ireland football team not to exist in the first place, is it the anthem or playing at Windsor Park which is the biggest issue? With respect to the anthem, to me it is always a bit of a damp squib / irrelevance with most folk not even bothering to sing. Personally I reckon Danny Boy or some other neutral tune should be played in place of the dirge that is GSTQ. As for playing games at Windsor Park, do you feel threatened attending as a Nationalist? Although admittedly located on the edge of the Village, it also adjacent to and accessible from the Lisburn Road which is now a mixed area populated by students, young professionals, foreign nationals etc.
Went once in 1996 v Albania. Anthem came on and men drapped in Union Jacks shouted 'get up' and gestured to me and my mate. I was shitting myself. I dont see it as an international team--more as a farce--from the team, to the fans who believe Northern IRELAND is england, UK or whatever i dont know what they think, to the shit stadium with crap floodlights that would hardly light a street not to mention commentators with their "at this level it's a case of slow slow, quick quick, one-two and your in". The walkway into the stadium is a dark, frightening, hole.
I sound bigoted but i just dont understand it. Everyone likes Ireland and the Irish. What about the English? Watch Braveheart-- hard to like them yet half the population here wants to pretend they're English and talk about Norwich as if it's closer and more relevant than Longford.
Why should McClean play for NI --i've ranted before re what do we do--when the scorched earth tactics are being used do we give up that day? Do we wait a week then give up and say it's yours, 2 weeks, 2 years, 200, 700 years?
If i made it in Soccer i'd play for ROI and if not good enough i'd play for noone. I know a player who played for years for NI but he and his family were mad about ROI. During Italia 90 he was the biggest fan--he then played his best for NI but never loved them.
An Ireland team like in Running, Basketball, Cycling, Cricket, Rugby, Golf is the way forward.
Yes, Gerry and Michael are off their heads--they dont believe what they're saying. They're scared to offend people by telling the truth and saying that at the very least GSTQ has to go. They know it's about culture and a deep rooted historical issue but try and fool us into thinking it's about playing time. It's a cold-house for catholics, compounded by the anthem and supporters capable of giving death threats to Lennon, night in November, killing you etc. Why wouldnt fans want their own anthem? Look at Scotland, Wales, yet the fools at Windsor want to hang on to the tailcoats of another land saying "we're England."
I just dont know
Gerry will say whatever is asked of him by the people paying him.
You've also left any apostrophe out in "dont" above.
Are you on your last can of Special Brew yet?
I've got all the apostrophes. If mcclean doesn't play for the wee six i'll kill them all.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 06, 2012, 12:14:43 AM
I've got all the apostrophes. If mcclean doesn't play for the wee six i'll kill them all.
If you were a true loyalist posting that you obviously wouldn't have spelt everything as well as you did. Ignoring your lack of capitals obviously.
Players have a choice.
WTF is not progressive about that in a constitutionally recognized dual national statelet?
Accept that the choice is there and it will just become a thing some players will choose.
If it doesn't work out they can always declare for the IFA.
Take away that choice then you are suppressing a natural right.
Anyway the choice is embedded in FIFA regulation, so its not an option to take away the choice, not now and not in this millennium.
That penny might have dropped with the NI fans association who now want a system of compensation for every player who declares for the 'other country' ;D
As if a player is a possession, as if they don't care about the validity of national identity, as if they don't realize that a northerner is still declaring for the team that represents their nationality. Rather, such players are regarded as defectors. So what we have is that the national identity is being stigmatised unless it conforms to the singular British identity.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 06, 2012, 12:14:43 AM
I've got all the apostrophes. If mcclean doesn't play for the wee six i'll kill them all.
Kill them please just to prove to Baloney and Maguire that an apostrophe won't be missed when it get an OBE( and i don't mean a medal from the queen)
Quote from: Main Street on January 06, 2012, 12:19:21 AM
Players have a choice.
WTF is not progressive about that in a constitutionally recognized dual national statelet?
Accept that the choice is there and it will just become a thing some players will choose.
If it doesn't work out they can always declare for the IFA.
Take away that choice then you are suppressing a natural right.
Anyway the choice is embedded in FIFA regulation, so its not an option to take away the choice, not now and not in this millennium.
That penny might have dropped with the NI fans association who now want a system of compensation for every player who declares for the 'other country' ;D
As if a player is a possession, as if they don't care about the validity of national identity, as if they don't realize that a northerner is still declaring for the team that represents their nationality. Rather, such players are regarded as defectors. So what we have is that the national identity is being stigmatised unless it conforms to the singular British identity.
Good post, did you notice that M O Neill tried to entice Mc clean etc back by saying that players that do what he done are wrong-staright in with 2 big Portadown size 12s- another IFA puppet/muppet
Quote from: Main Street on January 06, 2012, 12:19:21 AM
Players have a choice.
WTF is not progressive about that in a constitutionally recognized dual national statelet?
Accept that the choice is there and it will just become a thing some players will choose.
If it doesn't work out they can always declare for the IFA.
Take away that choice then you are suppressing a natural right.
Anyway the choice is embedded in FIFA regulation, so its not an option to take away the choice, not now and not in this millennium.
That penny might have dropped with the NI fans association who now want a system of compensation for every player who declares for the 'other country' ;D
As if a player is a possession, as if they don't care about the validity of national identity, as if they don't realize that a northerner is still declaring for the team that represents their nationality. Rather, such players are regarded as defectors. So what we have is that the national identity is being stigmatised unless it conforms to the singular British identity.
MS, I read an article about Armstrong a few months ago and seemingly he is now some player welfare liaison officer or something. He speaks to lads about to take the jump and from what I remember he seemed pragmatic in that a grown man will make his choice and that was fine. What he and the IFA wouldn't stomach is the deliberate tapping up by the FAI of players from a young age, even 12,13 or 14 and the offer of incentives. He also believed FAI were adopting a scorched earth policy of signing up all the eligible players, especially around Derry etc. knowing full well that they'll never make it as an international.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 06, 2012, 12:26:03 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 06, 2012, 12:19:21 AM
Players have a choice.
WTF is not progressive about that in a constitutionally recognized dual national statelet?
Accept that the choice is there and it will just become a thing some players will choose.
If it doesn't work out they can always declare for the IFA.
Take away that choice then you are suppressing a natural right.
Anyway the choice is embedded in FIFA regulation, so its not an option to take away the choice, not now and not in this millennium.
That penny might have dropped with the NI fans association who now want a system of compensation for every player who declares for the 'other country' ;D
As if a player is a possession, as if they don't care about the validity of national identity, as if they don't realize that a northerner is still declaring for the team that represents their nationality. Rather, such players are regarded as defectors. So what we have is that the national identity is being stigmatised unless it conforms to the singular British identity.
MS, I read an article about Armstrong a few months ago and seemingly he is now some player welfare liaison officer or something. He speaks to lads about to take the jump and from what I remember he seemed pragmatic in that a grown man will make his choice and that was fine. What he and the IFA wouldn't stomach is the deliberate tapping up by the FAI of players from a young age, even 12,13 or 14 and the offer of incentives. He also believed FAI were adopting a scorched earth policy of signing up all the eligible players, especially around Derry etc. knowing full well that they'll never make it as an international.
Please remind me why we should feel sorry for the IFA and the sectarian crooks that run that sham set up
Quote from: Gold on January 05, 2012, 11:45:38 PMWhat about the English? Watch Braveheart-- hard to like them
:D :D
McClean has just told the two of them where to go.
Scottish fans couldn't have put it better..."are you England in disguise?" etc...etc...
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 06, 2012, 12:26:03 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 06, 2012, 12:19:21 AM
Players have a choice.
WTF is not progressive about that in a constitutionally recognized dual national statelet?
Accept that the choice is there and it will just become a thing some players will choose.
If it doesn't work out they can always declare for the IFA.
Take away that choice then you are suppressing a natural right.
Anyway the choice is embedded in FIFA regulation, so its not an option to take away the choice, not now and not in this millennium.
That penny might have dropped with the NI fans association who now want a system of compensation for every player who declares for the 'other country' ;D
As if a player is a possession, as if they don't care about the validity of national identity, as if they don't realize that a northerner is still declaring for the team that represents their nationality. Rather, such players are regarded as defectors. So what we have is that the national identity is being stigmatised unless it conforms to the singular British identity.
MS, I read an article about Armstrong a few months ago and seemingly he is now some player welfare liaison officer or something. He speaks to lads about to take the jump and from what I remember he seemed pragmatic in that a grown man will make his choice and that was fine. What he and the IFA wouldn't stomach is the deliberate tapping up by the FAI of players from a young age, even 12,13 or 14 and the offer of incentives. He also believed FAI were adopting a scorched earth policy of signing up all the eligible players, especially around Derry etc. knowing full well that they'll never make it as an international.
But don't these 12 and 13 year olds have the opportunity to change their allegiance up to the age of 21/23 provided they have not made a full competitive international appearance?
Quote from: Ulick on January 06, 2012, 12:13:58 PM
McClean has just told the two of them where to go.
Seen that-he has firmly thrown his hat in with the Republic, IFA are finally reaping what they have sown.
It's got feck all to do with political allegiances. Playing for NI Schoolboys gives young lads a shop window for the bigger Premiership Clubs where they can't get easily recognised by the Free State. Once they are at a decent club and have proven themselves as decent players they will play for whichever team is the more successful at that point in time.
If NI were performing consistently better than the Republic you can bet your ass Gibson and the likes would play for them. If Gibson were good enough to play for England and was qualified for both England and Ireland I would take a fair bet which team he would play for!
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2012, 01:51:40 PM
It's got feck all to do with political allegiances. Playing for NI Schoolboys gives young lads a shop window for the bigger Premiership Clubs where they can't get easily recognised by the Free State. Once they are at a decent club and have proven themselves as decent players they will play for whichever team is the more successful at that point in time.
If NI were performing consistently better than the Republic you can bet your ass Gibson and the likes would play for them. If Gibson were good enough to play for England and was qualified for both England and Ireland I would take a fair bet which team he would play for!
It might be like that in Draperstown but I am sure the boys up in Moneyneany etc would disagree. No seriously I know both lads and they would never play senior for NI.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2012, 02:05:26 PM
It might be like that in Draperstown but I am sure the boys up in Moneyneany etc would disagree. No seriously I know both lads and they would never play senior for NI.
Never? Why play all the way up to u21 - has anything changed in the last year.
I understand their pref may be for the ROI, but if McClean thought hed never have a chance for ROI your 100% sure hed not play for NI?
Quote from: nifan on January 06, 2012, 05:06:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2012, 02:05:26 PM
It might be like that in Draperstown but I am sure the boys up in Moneyneany etc would disagree. No seriously I know both lads and they would never play senior for NI.
Never? Why play all the way up to u21 - has anything changed in the last year.
I understand their pref may be for the ROI, but if McClean thought hed never have a chance for ROI your 100% sure hed not play for NI?
No disrepect but is it not a whole rat-race trying to get the players that
do want to play for NI available once qualification chances are finished?
International football with NI has never been glamorous in my view, not the same passion you get with Scotland, Ireland and even England. I wouldn't be surprised if players in such a scenario above just stuck to club football.
As I see it, the majority of the ones that do play have only ever been half-hearted and it was only under Sanchez and for a period under Worthington that there was a realisation that they might actually go somewhere.
After the ROI team's revitalisation under Trap the attraction will always lie with the ROI team.
Hopefully McClean's stance will encourage others to take the same route.
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2012, 01:51:40 PM
It's got feck all to do with political allegiances. Playing for NI Schoolboys gives young lads a shop window for the bigger Premiership Clubs where they can't get easily recognised by the Free State. Once they are at a decent club and have proven themselves as decent players they will play for whichever team is the more successful at that point in time.
If NI were performing consistently better than the Republic you can bet your ass Gibson and the likes would play for them. If Gibson were good enough to play for England and was qualified for both England and Ireland I would take a fair bet which team he would play for!
Think screen exile has it right. If nireland were more successful more nationalists would declare for them. Michael oneill can only try his best to change how nireland and their supporters are perceived by nationalists, he after all was a fine Gaelic player for all saints, st louis and Antrim minors before heading across the water. Don't fancy his job though, and until nireland more out of Windsor , very few nationalist could feel comfortable supporting let alone playing for them.
Quote from: Hardy on January 06, 2012, 09:57:25 AM
Quote from: Gold on January 05, 2012, 11:45:38 PMWhat about the English? Watch Braveheart-- hard to like them
:D :D
I thought that was a classic myself!
Don't really see Windsor Pk as the main sticking point. The song, flag and "Billy Boys" chanting would be worse IMO.
Quote from: trileacman on January 06, 2012, 08:06:54 PM
Don't really see Windsor Pk as the main sticking point. The song, flag and "Billy Boys" chanting would be worse IMO.
I still reckon Windsor is a factor, both in terms of location and the fact that it looks like a dump.
Quote from: trileacman on January 06, 2012, 08:06:54 PM
Don't really see Windsor Pk as the main sticking point. The song, flag and "Billy Boys" chanting would be worse IMO.
The "Billy Boys" would indeed be worse. But if you're suggesting you'd hear that at Windsor if you went to a NI match, you're wide of the mark.
Quote from: MW on January 06, 2012, 10:00:13 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 06, 2012, 08:06:54 PM
Don't really see Windsor Pk as the main sticking point. The song, flag and "Billy Boys" chanting would be worse IMO.
The "Billy Boys" would indeed be worse. But if you're suggesting you'd hear that at Windsor if you went to a NI match, you're wide of the mark.
Things must be rapidly improving if this has changed in the last year. Forget about it lads, just sent in the Poles again and finish this once and for all, they didn't sing much that day. T
You'll have to help me here because basically none of that made any sense to me.
Quote from: MW on January 07, 2012, 07:59:42 PM
You'll have to help me here because basically none of that made any sense to me.
Basically 2 points MW. The Billy Boys was still being sang within the last year. The 2nd part was just a reference to being fed up with the whole NI set up, my resolution would be to send in the Polish supporters again. The last time the Polish played NI about a half a dozen of them beat up the entire East Belfast UDA- wasnt a swipe at you really lad.
It's unbelievable that in this world of communication and information that almost total ignorance persists.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2012, 09:42:52 PM
The Billy Boys was still being sang within the last year.
No it wasn't
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2012, 09:42:52 PM
Quote from: MW on January 07, 2012, 07:59:42 PM
You'll have to help me here because basically none of that made any sense to me.
Basically 2 points MW. The Billy Boys was still being sang within the last year. The 2nd part was just a reference to being fed up with the whole NI set up, my resolution would be to send in the Polish supporters again. The last time the Polish played NI about a half a dozen of them beat up the entire East Belfast UDA- wasnt a swipe at you really lad.
Two points back at you then:
1 - no, it wasn't. Actually, it's been more than a decade now.
2 - you're celebrating the thuggish actions of organised Polish hooligan gangs?
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2012, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2012, 09:42:52 PM
Quote from: MW on January 07, 2012, 07:59:42 PM
You'll have to help me here because basically none of that made any sense to me.
Basically 2 points MW. The Billy Boys was still being sang within the last year. The 2nd part was just a reference to being fed up with the whole NI set up, my resolution would be to send in the Polish supporters again. The last time the Polish played NI about a half a dozen of them beat up the entire East Belfast UDA- wasnt a swipe at you really lad.
Two points back at you then:
1 - no, it wasn't. Actually, it's been more than a decade now.
2 - you're celebrating the thuggish actions of organised Polish hooligan gangs?
1 Unlike the IFA, which is a pantomine set up, I dont think there is much point in me coming back on this one and making our debate into "oh yes it was", "oh no it wasnt "debate. Lets just agree to to disagree.
2. It was a bit tongue in cheek, I wouldnt agree with hooliganism, but I must admit I did have a giggle when the UDA sent down the hard men and they were shown up for what they have always been- a crowd of spineless cowards!!
No we won't "agree to disagree", because I've been going to NI matches since 1989 and am dealing in facts, whereas you're dealing in pure fantasy.
There is such a thing as objective reality, and your weird fantasy version simply does not bear the same validity.
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
No we won't "agree to disagree", because I've been going to NI matches since 1989 and am dealing in facts, whereas you're dealing in pure fantasy.
There is such a thing as objective reality, and your weird fantasy version simply does not bear the same validity.
Weird? A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality.
Lets talk about some FACTS since 1989.
Neil Lennon forced to leave NI set up because of sectarian abuse from NI fans, must be OK though because at least according to you they dont sing Billy Boys anymore- FACT
UDA element within the crowd-FACT
Match between NI and ROI supporters called off in
2011 because of PSNI fears of sectarian trouble after NI fan's disgraceful sectarian behaviour against Scotland-FACT
Windsor Park draped in Union Jacks-FACT
GSTQ played and sang with GUSTO instead of something more neutral-FACT
Mc Clean and other Catholics will continue to declare for the ROI because of years of mistreatment from IFA-FACT
All the above is objective, factual and devoid of any fantasy WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
No we won't "agree to disagree", because I've been going to NI matches since 1989 and am dealing in facts, whereas you're dealing in pure fantasy.
There is such a thing as objective reality, and your weird fantasy version simply does not bear the same validity.
What's windsor park like now then? Do you see much sectarianism?
Quote from: trileacman on January 08, 2012, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
No we won't "agree to disagree", because I've been going to NI matches since 1989 and am dealing in facts, whereas you're dealing in pure fantasy.
There is such a thing as objective reality, and your weird fantasy version simply does not bear the same validity.
What's windsor park like now then? Do you see much sectarianism?
I would say none at Windsor i.e. Sectarian songs are no longer sung and haven't been for many a year. As for your man's comment above about Union Jack's being commonplace, I would also dispute this. Most are fans in Green and White. The banners around the ground tend to be homemade efforts which would more often have N.Ireland flags stitched on to them rather than Union Jacks. As for away games, however, you would get the odd pissed up arsehole who has been drinking all day singing inappropriate songs.
These young lads are mercenarys as are their Ma's and Da's, if the 6 county team were qualifying for the Euros or World Cups then they would be happy enough to ply their trade closer to home. I see plenty of young lads from nationalist families sporting their Linfield and N.I tracksuits and nobody's saying "where you going wearing that?".... Park the "Cultural Ideology" theory lads its all about the £££££.
££££££ playing international football?? ???
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 08, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
££££££ playing international football?? ???
Raising your profile.
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 08, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
££££££ playing international football?? ???
Good Man Sammy- thon boy doesnt know he is talking about, what have their mothers and fathers got to do with it either?
Quote from: Minder on January 08, 2012, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 08, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
££££££ playing international football?? ???
Raising your profile.
Like Giggsy for Wales? :P ah if you are a good enough footballer it shouldnt matter what country you kick ball for... But once you nail your colours to the mast, you can't change and alot can happen in 3-4 years in international football, weren't NI a decent team 3-4 years ago when Lawrie was at the helm?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 08, 2012, 09:32:21 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 08, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
££££££ playing international football?? ???
Good Man Sammy- thon boy doesnt know he is talking about, what have their mothers and fathers got to do with it either?
Aye probably very little influence, know any of these families do you????? ::)
Quote from: Last Man on January 08, 2012, 10:06:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 08, 2012, 09:32:21 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 08, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
££££££ playing international football?? ???
Good Man Sammy- thon boy doesnt know he is talking about, what have their mothers and fathers got to do with it either?
Aye probably very little influence, know any of these families do you????? ::)
Yes- Gibson's/Mc Cleans- good people.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 08, 2012, 10:49:55 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 08, 2012, 10:06:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 08, 2012, 09:32:21 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 08, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
££££££ playing international football?? ???
Good Man Sammy- thon boy doesnt know he is talking about, what have their mothers and fathers got to do with it either?
Aye probably very little influence, know any of these families do you????? ::)
Yes- Gibson's/Mc Cleans- good people.
OK I see my point is difficult to grasp ::), so here goes again> Both sets of parents were happy enough to send wee Darren and James or better still take them up to Windsor park to raise their "stock" in the pro football market so once again can we park up this notion about national identity and soccer players....Their nose follows the money and whatever they say to appease their short memory neighbours doesn't cut it with me. Just accept them for what they are and leave it at that.
We can argue this as much as we like. Bottom line is that the Union Flags, Ulster Flags,GSTQ and the "No surrenders" belted out during the anthem are problems that are hard for most Nationalists to get over, the fact that NI claims to be a country is another issue. Some catholics/nationalists can look past these to go to Windsor and to play for NI. Some can't and would rather be peripheral to the ROI squad than have a career with NI and others will choose to play for NI because of the opportunities it provides and can ignore the loyalist trappings. I suppose it comes down to whether or not your nationalist principles are deeply enough held and I personally have no affection for or affinity ro the NI team, but others do.
Thats not the bottom line. The past obviously has some influence. The IFA? God knows what a bunch of cretins they are.
Even if GSTQ was dropped (never) and the few cries of no surrender silenced, there would be little difference.
The stronger factor than all that is sentiment and in general, nationalist sentiment does not identify with the IFA.
Plenty of players have come from a nationalist background but that does not make any inroads into the fundamental sentiment.
I listened to the NI fans representatives on a radio show recently where they talked about 'defections' and blustered on about them playing for 'another country'. And when the offensiveness of their terminology was pointed out to them, they still continued with their jargon. Imo, it was quite a bizarre display of blind arrogance, while they were behaving themselves in order to win hearts and minds. What happens when they can express themselves freely ;D
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1064772#msg1064772
Weird? A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality.
So you're backing off from your whole "Billy Boys" claim, but instead of having the balls to admit it, your resorting to childish personal abuse. Not exactly a mark of mature debate, eh?
From back in the 1990s, from my mid-teens on, I actually tried to do something about the sectarianism displayed by a minority at NI games. Other fans contributed more and successful efforts were made. Much later than this, I discovered this board thanks to a somewhat unhinged poster by the name of Tony Fearon who was making all sorts of ludicrous allegations about the NI support and team. Can you see the connection?
QuoteLets talk about some FACTS since 1989.
Neil Lennon forced to leave NI set up because of sectarian abuse from NI fans, must be OK though because at least according to you they dont sing Billy Boys anymore- FACT
That's not a fact. It's a lie. Lennon quit international football due to a death threat someone phoned in to UTV. The home match prior to this, he received no abuse. The home match before that again, he was booed by 150-200 people in a crowd of 7000 due to the club he played for. I actually campaigned strongly on this at the time, even designed a fanzine cover based on the issue in support of Lennon and stood selling it outside Winsdor. In fact the night of the death threat I actually stayed behind a fair bit after the match to sing "there's only one Neil Lennon".
This was all over a decade ago - exactly what point are you making with regards to 2011 or 2012 by bringing it up?
QuoteUDA element within the crowd-FACT
What on earth does this mean? Where are you getting this "fact" from?
QuoteMatch between NI and ROI supporters called off in 2011 because of PSNI fears of sectarian trouble after NI fan's disgraceful sectarian behaviour against Scotland-FACT
Actually, that's another lie.
QuoteWindsor Park draped in Union Jacks-FACT
What has this to do with sectarian singing? What does "draped in Union Jacks" mean - how many are you thinking of here? There's a hell of a lot more Tricolours at Ireland rugby matches - do you complain about them? Do you think them to sectarianism?
QuoteGSTQ played and sang with GUSTO instead of something more neutral-FACT
Again, what is the link to sectarianism? And what would constitute an acceptable volume for singing GSTQ? What's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games? I actually have been arguing the case for a NI-specific anthem for NI matches since the 1990s, by the way.
QuoteMc Clean and other Catholics will continue to declare for the ROI because of years of mistreatment from IFA-FACT
This doesn't strike me as much of a "fact" either. You can't see into the mind of McClean or any other player, and the public statements from the likes of McClean, Duffy, etc, indicate that they grew up supporting the ROI and always wanted to play for them. Plenty of people on this very thread seem to think it's to do with national identity and allegiance rather than some crude religious marker. And if you want to use the crude religious marker, plenty of "Catholics" do play for NI and I would say will continue to do so.
Quote
All the above is objective, factual and devoid of any fantasy WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!
Hmm. Going from this comment I think I've made the mistake of engaging with someone who isn't quite the full shilling. It's got a certain nonsensical quality to it, which, like some of your other comments, leaves me wondering if I need the services of a translator.
Quote from: trileacman on January 08, 2012, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
No we won't "agree to disagree", because I've been going to NI matches since 1989 and am dealing in facts, whereas you're dealing in pure fantasy.
There is such a thing as objective reality, and your weird fantasy version simply does not bear the same validity.
What's windsor park like now then? Do you see much sectarianism?
I don't, actually.
I hate it when posters choose to move on in a debate rather than acknowledge that they could be wrong about statements they have made beforehand.
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2012, 01:51:40 PM
It's got feck all to do with political allegiances. Playing for NI Schoolboys gives young lads a shop window for the bigger Premiership Clubs where they can't get easily recognised by the Free State. Once they are at a decent club and have proven themselves as decent players they will play for whichever team is the more successful at that point in time.
If NI were performing consistently better than the Republic you can bet your ass Gibson and the likes would play for them. If Gibson were good enough to play for England and was qualified for both England and Ireland I would take a fair bet which team he would play for!
Knowing Gibsons family you are dead wrong.
Quote from: MW on January 06, 2012, 10:00:13 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 06, 2012, 08:06:54 PM
Don't really see Windsor Pk as the main sticking point. The song, flag and "Billy Boys" chanting would be worse IMO.
The "Billy Boys" would indeed be worse. But if you're suggesting you'd hear that at Windsor if you went to a NI match, you're wide of the mark.
Basically your talking dung. There is still a fair bit of sectarian chanting going on at N Ireland matches which would include the billy boys song.
Met a group of fellas from the shankill on holidays. Sound lads. All supported Norn Ireland. All but one (who I have to say was the smarter of the group) said they would support England if the two teams played each other. Tells you a fair bit about the mind set.
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
No we won't "agree to disagree", because I've been going to NI matches since 1989 and am dealing in facts, whereas you're dealing in pure fantasy.
There is such a thing as objective reality, and your weird fantasy version simply does not bear the same validity.
In the last five years, what is the most sectarian things you have heard chanted, said or sung at an N Ireland game?
Quote from: hardstation on January 10, 2012, 03:11:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2012, 03:06:56 PM
Quote from: MW on January 06, 2012, 10:00:13 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 06, 2012, 08:06:54 PM
Don't really see Windsor Pk as the main sticking point. The song, flag and "Billy Boys" chanting would be worse IMO.
The "Billy Boys" would indeed be worse. But if you're suggesting you'd hear that at Windsor if you went to a NI match, you're wide of the mark.
Basically your talking dung. There is still a fair bit of sectarian chanting going on at N Ireland matches which would include the billy boys song.
To be fair, I have been to see them twice in Windsor (about 2 years ago now) and I didn't hear the Billy Boys either time.
I am Ulster 'til I die though.
Truthfully though, was there any other elementS in the last two years when you went, that would influence nationalists not to play or support them?
QuoteThere is still a fair bit of sectarian chanting going on at N Ireland matches which would include the billy boys song.
HiMucker - I can understand why nationalists might choose not to play.
But the above is just wrong - where do you get your information?
Quote from: nifan on January 10, 2012, 03:36:52 PM
QuoteThere is still a fair bit of sectarian chanting going on at N Ireland matches which would include the billy boys song.
HiMucker - I can understand why nationalists might choose not to play.
But the above is just wrong - where do you get your information?
To be fair I cant comment for sure about chanting relating to the last few years. But I have encountered many a N Ireland fan at airports, abroad or in bars en route to games (in the last few years) and I would have doubted they toned it down once they got in the ground. Maybe they were just drowned out by the majority of decent supporters. I also have to add that I encontered more decent supporters in that time also. Im sorry if that paints an unfair image, but negative experiences tend to outway normal ones.
Took my young son to a friendly match in Windsor round about 1981 or so against Austria.
The sectarian anti-Catholic chanting was nonstop and I had to leave. This was Austria and we got the full venomous repertoire!!!
I have never been back even when I got a VIP invite for a testimonial game, and my son has grown up with no affinity for the NI team. If he was able to kick a paper bag he would have opted for the Republic. I can make no comment on how things might have improved since but this was one experience which shaped our opinion and makes it easy for me to understand why others might elect the same way.
I have to admit I went to Windsor Park to see NI play back in the early 80's, against the Republic.
The IFA had decided not to play the Soldiers Song, in case it upset the locals. They're easy upset.
Anyway, after GSTQ had finished one of my mates said to guys in my group "what about the other one!"
And a man behind me said "Fcuk the other one"
Quote from: Orior on January 10, 2012, 09:56:33 PM
I have to admit I went to Windsor Park to see NI play back in the early 80's, against the Republic.
The IFA had decided not to play the Soldiers Song, in case it upset the locals. They're easy upset.
Anyway, after GSTQ had finished one of my mates said to guys in my group "what about the other one!"
And a man behind me said "Fcuk the other one"
Probably a good job they didn't play it - imagine you'd started singing!
Quote from: MW on January 10, 2012, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1064772#msg1064772
Weird? A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality.
So you're backing off from your whole "Billy Boys" claim, but instead of having the balls to admit it, your resorting to childish personal abuse. Not exactly a mark of mature debate, eh?
From back in the 1990s, from my mid-teens on, I actually tried to do something about the sectarianism displayed by a minority at NI games. Other fans contributed more and successful efforts were made. Much later than this, I discovered this board thanks to a somewhat unhinged poster by the name of Tony Fearon who was making all sorts of ludicrous allegations about the NI support and team. Can you see the connection?
QuoteLets talk about some FACTS since 1989.
Neil Lennon forced to leave NI set up because of sectarian abuse from NI fans, must be OK though because at least according to you they dont sing Billy Boys anymore- FACT
That's not a fact. It's a lie. Lennon quit international football due to a death threat someone phoned in to UTV. The home match prior to this, he received no abuse. The home match before that again, he was booed by 150-200 people in a crowd of 7000 due to the club he played for. I actually campaigned strongly on this at the time, even designed a fanzine cover based on the issue in support of Lennon and stood selling it outside Winsdor. In fact the night of the death threat I actually stayed behind a fair bit after the match to sing "there's only one Neil Lennon".
This was all over a decade ago - exactly what point are you making with regards to 2011 or 2012 by bringing it up?
QuoteUDA element within the crowd-FACT
What on earth does this mean? Where are you getting this "fact" from?
QuoteMatch between NI and ROI supporters called off in 2011 because of PSNI fears of sectarian trouble after NI fan's disgraceful sectarian behaviour against Scotland-FACT
Actually, that's another lie.
QuoteWindsor Park draped in Union Jacks-FACT
What has this to do with sectarian singing? What does "draped in Union Jacks" mean - how many are you thinking of here? There's a hell of a lot more Tricolours at Ireland rugby matches - do you complain about them? Do you think them to sectarianism?
QuoteGSTQ played and sang with GUSTO instead of something more neutral-FACT
Again, what is the link to sectarianism? And what would constitute an acceptable volume for singing GSTQ? What's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games? I actually have been arguing the case for a NI-specific anthem for NI matches since the 1990s, by the way.
QuoteMc Clean and other Catholics will continue to declare for the ROI because of years of mistreatment from IFA-FACT
This doesn't strike me as much of a "fact" either. You can't see into the mind of McClean or any other player, and the public statements from the likes of McClean, Duffy, etc, indicate that they grew up supporting the ROI and always wanted to play for them. Plenty of people on this very thread seem to think it's to do with national identity and allegiance rather than some crude religious marker. And if you want to use the crude religious marker, plenty of "Catholics" do play for NI and I would say will continue to do so.
Quote
All the above is objective, factual and devoid of any fantasy WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!
Hmm. Going from this comment I think I've made the mistake of engaging with someone who isn't quite the full shilling. It's got a certain nonsensical quality to it, which, like some of your other comments, leaves me wondering if I need the services of a translator.
Not backing off at all. I am sticking by it and have not been shown any concrete evidence by you to help me change my views. Are you for real? Personal Abuse? You called me weird and accused me of engaging in fantasy- please define that behaviour, behaviour which was initiated by you. Whats wrong don't you like being challenged? Hardly a sign of maturity.
Fair play to you for staying back to sing for Neil Lennon. It must have been lonely on your own. :D
So 200 out of 7000 is acceptable- i would not say so especially when it is probably fair to say that you are calling the number short for the ake of your arguement.
UDA element within the crowd-Have you difficulty understanding this sentence?. Its true and you know it is. It was reported after the Poland Game on UTV Live that this was the case.
Match between NI and ROI supporters called off in 2011 because of PSNI fears of sectarian trouble after NI fan's disgraceful sectarian behaviour against Scotland-http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13384280.stm
What has this to do with sectarian singing? What does "draped in Union Jacks" mean - how many are you thinking of here? There's a hell of a lot more Tricolours at Ireland rugby matches - do you complain about them? Do you think them to sectarianism?-it has nothing to do with sectarian singing bu,t here is the newsflas,h this thread was not started to dicuss singing alone. Union Jacks are there in big numbers and are off putting for Nationalists. Not interested in rugby-sorry thats another thread.
Again, what is the link to sectarianism? And what would constitute an acceptable volume for singing GSTQ? What's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games? I actually have been arguing the case for a NI-specific anthem for NI matches since the 1990s, by the way- it has often been used in the past incorrectly to intimidate nationalists, therefore based on this it is often perceived as sectarian.
This doesn't strike me as much of a "fact" either. You can't see into the mind of McClean or any other player, and the public statements from the likes of McClean, Duffy, etc, indicate that they grew up supporting the ROI and always wanted to play for them. Plenty of people on this very thread seem to think it's to do with national identity and allegiance rather than some crude religious marker. And if you want to use the crude religious marker, plenty of "Catholics" do play for NI and I would say will continue to do so.- Unfortunately it should have nothing to do with religion but it has been made so by NI set up over the years. Ask yourself why they support the Republic, this is the crux of the problem
Hmm. Going from this comment I think I've made the mistake of engaging with someone who isn't quite the full shilling. It's got a certain nonsensical quality to it, which, like some of your other comments, leaves me wondering if I need the services of a translator- again more personal abuse.
QuoteNot backing off at all. I am sticking by it and have not been shown any concrete evidence by you to help me change my views.
Ahem....
You made the accusation FBNS. Is it not your responsibility to back up what youve said rather than MW's to prove a negative? It's not as if there'll be a BBC report floating around the net stating that the Billy Boys wasn't sung :-\
Quote from: theskull1 on January 10, 2012, 11:17:28 PM
QuoteNot backing off at all. I am sticking by it and have not been shown any concrete evidence by you to help me change my views.
Ahem....
You made the accusation FBNS. Is it not your responsibility to back up what youve said rather than MW's to prove a negative? It's not as if there'll be a BBC report floating around the net stating that the Billy Boys wasn't sung :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjGGv1T8zVY&feature=g-vrec&context=G2187b57RVAAAAAAAAAA&safe_search=on
Just a wee taster before I get one with the Billy Boys- the No Surrender bit is very endearing to Nationalists in this one. I did live very close to Windsor for 2 years of my 4 years in Belfast and I would hear Billy Boys sang frequently by fans making their way to the match. i will admit I didnt follow them into the ground to see if they suddenly stopped- but I would think that it would be difficult to change someones singing habits a couple of hundred yards down the road. Lets say they did stop when they entered intot he ground- would you really still feel comfy beside these guys knowing their real outlook?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2012, 12:19:16 AM
Lets say they did stop when they entered intot he ground- would you really still feel comfy beside these guys knowing their real outlook?
No of course not. Confused as to why you couldn't have made that reply 2 days ago. But you've made it now
Quote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2012, 01:09:52 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2012, 12:19:16 AM
Lets say they did stop when they entered intot he ground- would you really still feel comfy beside these guys knowing their real outlook?
No of course not. Confused as to why you couldn't have made that reply 2 days ago. But you've made it now
i am notoriously long winded lad :)
;)
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2012, 12:19:16 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 10, 2012, 11:17:28 PM
QuoteNot backing off at all. I am sticking by it and have not been shown any concrete evidence by you to help me change my views.
Ahem....
You made the accusation FBNS. Is it not your responsibility to back up what youve said rather than MW's to prove a negative? It's not as if there'll be a BBC report floating around the net stating that the Billy Boys wasn't sung :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjGGv1T8zVY&feature=g-vrec&context=G2187b57RVAAAAAAAAAA&safe_search=on
Just a wee taster before I get one with the Billy Boys- the No Surrender bit is very endearing to Nationalists in this one. I did live very close to Windsor for 2 years of my 4 years in Belfast and I would hear Billy Boys sang frequently by fans making their way to the match. i will admit I didnt follow them into the ground to see if they suddenly stopped- but I would think that it would be difficult to change someones singing habits a couple of hundred yards down the road. Lets say they did stop when they entered intot he ground- would you really still feel comfy beside these guys knowing their real outlook?
What exactly does that clip prove, above and beyond what's been freely discussed plenty of times on here by all including NI fans and indeed including myself? ???
Quote from: MW on January 11, 2012, 11:13:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2012, 12:19:16 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 10, 2012, 11:17:28 PM
QuoteNot backing off at all. I am sticking by it and have not been shown any concrete evidence by you to help me change my views.
Ahem....
You made the accusation FBNS. Is it not your responsibility to back up what youve said rather than MW's to prove a negative? It's not as if there'll be a BBC report floating around the net stating that the Billy Boys wasn't sung :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjGGv1T8zVY&feature=g-vrec&context=G2187b57RVAAAAAAAAAA&safe_search=on
Just a wee taster before I get one with the Billy Boys- the No Surrender bit is very endearing to Nationalists in this one. I did live very close to Windsor for 2 years of my 4 years in Belfast and I would hear Billy Boys sang frequently by fans making their way to the match. i will admit I didnt follow them into the ground to see if they suddenly stopped- but I would think that it would be difficult to change someones singing habits a couple of hundred yards down the road. Lets say they did stop when they entered intot he ground- would you really still feel comfy beside these guys knowing their real outlook?
What exactly does that clip prove, above and beyond what's been freely discussed plenty of times on here by all including NI fans and indeed including myself? ???
I am relatively new to the board,so if you have discussed it before fair enough. Dont think I need to elaborate on what it demonstrates then.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 10, 2012, 11:00:38 PM
Not backing off at all. I am sticking by it and have not been shown any concrete evidence by you to help me change my views.
"Sticking by it" despite you having no evidence for it, and admitting that you don't actually know? Despite people who have been to matches telling you it doesn't happen?
As theskull says, it's not really up to me to prove a negative, and indeed providing "concrete evidence" of a negative in these circumstances is close to a logical impossibility. Similarly, I can't provide "concrete evicence" that NI fans
didn't at any point in, say the last five years, sing "I'm a little teapot" while burning an effigy of King Jigme Khesar Namgyel of Bhutan.
QuoteAre you for real? Personal Abuse? You called me weird and accused me of engaging in fantasy- please define that behaviour, behaviour which was initiated by you.
I can see you're struggling here so let me help you with a little soccer metaphor that's quite common in this context - "play the man, not the ball". I did not call you wierd, I called your
version of events wierd. Similarly, I called your
version of events fantasy.
QuoteWhats wrong don't you like being challenged? Hardly a sign of maturity.
Au contraire, I enjoy being challenged - one of the reasons I enjoy posting on here. I don't like downright lies and silly personal comments.
QuoteFair play to you for staying back to sing for Neil Lennon. It must have been lonely on your own. :D
So 200 out of 7000 is acceptable- i would not say so especially when it is probably fair to say that you are calling the number short for the ake of your arguement.
Can you point me to where you think I said it was acceptable?
Quote
UDA element within the crowd-Have you difficulty understanding this sentence?. Its true and you know it is. It was reported after the Poland Game on UTV Live that this was the case.
Well, evidently not having seen this UTV Live report, can direct me to another source? One I can view/read?
QuoteMatch between NI and ROI supporters called off in 2011 because of PSNI fears of sectarian trouble after NI fan's disgraceful sectarian behaviour against Scotland-http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13384280.stm
Pretty significant difference between what you say and what the BBC report says.
Quote
What has this to do with sectarian singing? What does "draped in Union Jacks" mean - how many are you thinking of here? There's a hell of a lot more Tricolours at Ireland rugby matches - do you complain about them? Do you think them to sectarianism?-it has nothing to do with sectarian singing bu,t here is the newsflas,h this thread was not started to dicuss singing alone. Union Jacks are there in big numbers and are off putting for Nationalists. Not interested in rugby-sorry thats another thread.
What's the relevance to my challenge to you on your "Billy Boys" fantasy?
And there are
not Union Flags in "big numbers". Unlike Tricolours at Ireland rugby games, which you don't have the cojones to attempt a comment on.
Quote
Again, what is the link to sectarianism? And what would constitute an acceptable volume for singing GSTQ? What's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games? I actually have been arguing the case for a NI-specific anthem for NI matches since the 1990s, by the way- it has often been used in the past incorrectly to intimidate nationalists, therefore based on this it is often perceived as sectarian.
It isn't sectarian. And again I ask - what's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games.
QuoteUnfortunately it should have nothing to do with religion but it has been made so by NI set up over the years. Ask yourself why they support the Republic, this is the crux of the problem
I think there are myriad reasons, not least among them national identity and allegiance. And indeed the fact that the ROI team tends to be better and has a recent-ish (and upcoming) history of appearances at major tournaments. Perceptions based on the previous atmosphere at NI games plays some part I think, but not the leading part you're making out.
Quote
Hmm. Going from this comment I think I've made the mistake of engaging with someone who isn't quite the full shilling. It's got a certain nonsensical quality to it, which, like some of your other comments, leaves me wondering if I need the services of a translator- again more personal abuse.
Again, I'm going to bring the "playing the man/playing the ball" concept to bear. This is perhaps an old-style fair tackle, playing the ball first and foremost - it's based around your nonsensical comment(s), and a hypothesis of mine based on these comments. So yeah a bit of "man" in there but this time I just couldn't resist once I'd played the ball :)
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2012, 03:09:49 PM
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2012, 04:49:19 PM
No we won't "agree to disagree", because I've been going to NI matches since 1989 and am dealing in facts, whereas you're dealing in pure fantasy.
There is such a thing as objective reality, and your weird fantasy version simply does not bear the same validity.
In the last five years, what is the most sectarian things you have heard chanted, said or sung at an N Ireland game?
Honestly, nothing "sectarian chanting" wise I can think of actually at a game. Beyond (depending on your definition) the political, and very unwelcome in my mind, "No Surrender" addition to the national anthem.
Quote from: HiMucker on January 10, 2012, 03:06:56 PM
.Basically your talking dung. There is still a fair bit of sectarian chanting going on at N Ireland matches which would include the billy boys song.
Wrong, and wrong.
QuoteMet a group of fellas from the shankill on holidays. Sound lads. All supported Norn Ireland. All but one (who I have to say was the smarter of the group) said they would support England if the two teams played each other.
Then you weren't talking to Northern Ireland supporters - you were talking to England "supporters" :-\
A few things to consider that might blow your mind:
1 - in over 20 years of going to NI matches home and away, selling fanzines, etc, I've never met a NI supporter who doesn't support NI as their first team (it's kind of in the job description, no?), but reserves that status for England.
2 - When NI beat England in 2005, there were pretty wild celebrations and an outpouring of joy from the NI support at the match. Not disappointment that England had lost.
3 - When NI lost in England in 2004, the thousands of NI fans there didn't cheer the England goals or even console themselves with the fact England had won. They were simply disappointed to have been (heavily) beaten, in a match that looked promising at half time.
4 - When the half time scores from other matches are announced at NI games, and England are losing, a cheer goes up from among the NI support.
QuoteTells you a fair bit about the mind set.
About
whose mindset, though? ???
To sumarise. the NI team has a British Anthem and Ethos which alienates most nationalists but actually reflects the mind set of the majority of their money paying fans, ie those who fork out their hard earned wages for tickets. Some Cathaolic/nationalists are prepared to put up with this to play whilst others would rather not. Nationalists will have different views on what this means, some like myself see the embracing of a team with a British ethos as betraying our community, that's my view and certainly coloured by the fact that I grew up through a period of majority unionist government and control where it was illegal to even fly a tricolour. Others are pragmatic. On the plus side we can have two teams on this Island which either community can support. In fact here in the north as both communities learn to live with each other it can in some instances replicate the benign rivalry heretofore only seen in GAA. On the negative side it still entrenches sectarianism and division which leads to events such as the wheelie bin attack in the Village or the attacks on the Protestant enclave in Suffolk. Changing the anthem and ethos of the NI team to make it inclusive is a bit of a red herring, many if not all nationalists will always see the ROI team as theirs although the may be more inclined to support NI as a second team. The problem for the IFA is that by becoming more inclusive of the nationalist identity they are likely to alienate their core financial support. The unspoken fact or elephant in the room which permeates all the discussions we have on here regarding national identity is that when unionists talk of a shared society they mean on unionist terms. I have made this argument elsewhere on this board. But Brian Feeney in the Irish News yesterday more articulately than I could ever hope to described this problem as the Institutional Unionism of NI. It's worth reading unfortunately my technical skills don't allow me to cut and paste it perhaps someone could oblige.
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 12, 2012, 10:31:58 AM
To sumarise. the NI team has a British Anthem and Ethos which alienates most nationalists but actually reflects the mind set of the majority of their money paying fans, ie those who fork out their hard earned wages for tickets.
To be fair the exact same could be said for the GAA but in reverse.
Quote from: theskull1 on January 10, 2012, 11:17:28 PM
QuoteNot backing off at all. I am sticking by it and have not been shown any concrete evidence by you to help me change my views.
Ahem....
You made the accusation FBNS. Is it not your responsibility to back up what youve said rather than MW's to prove a negative? It's not as if there'll be a BBC report floating around the net stating that the Billy Boys wasn't sung :-\
but he did say FACT after each one, what more dod you need ??? ???
Quote from: trileacman on January 12, 2012, 11:11:43 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 12, 2012, 10:31:58 AM
To sumarise. the NI team has a British Anthem and Ethos which alienates most nationalists but actually reflects the mind set of the majority of their money paying fans, ie those who fork out their hard earned wages for tickets.
To be fair the exact same could be said for the GAA but in reverse.
Yes but the difference is that the GAA is a dedicated Irish cultural organisation and doesn't claim to represent all although in Ulster it is very much reaching out to others.
Quote from: MW on January 12, 2012, 12:05:31 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 10, 2012, 11:00:38 PM
Not backing off at all. I am sticking by it and have not been shown any concrete evidence by you to help me change my views.
"Sticking by it" despite you having no evidence for it, and admitting that you don't actually know? Despite people who have been to matches telling you it doesn't happen? - I have already said in another post that I have first hand experience of this outside the ground. I have also had second hand evidence from trusted sources. Your evidence is no stronger than that, you are just another second hand source to me also. So its a choice of who to believe and I have never met you so I choose to go with other people's evidence This coupled with a well documented history of sectarianism amongst NI fans is why i am sticking by it . Last year's disgraceful debacle in Dublin by NI fans was the icing on the cake Quote
Are you for real? Personal Abuse? You called me weird and accused me of engaging in fantasy- please define that behaviour, behaviour which was initiated by you.
I can see you're struggling here so let me help you with a little soccer metaphor that's quite common in this context - "play the man, not the ball". I did not call you wierd, I called your version of events wierd. Similarly, I called your version of events fantasy.- That was personal enough to me
QuoteWhats wrong don't you like being challenged? Hardly a sign of maturity.
Au contraire, I enjoy being challenged - one of the reasons I enjoy posting on here. I don't like downright lies and silly personal comments.-Well stop making so many then :D
QuoteFair play to you for staying back to sing for Neil Lennon. It must have been lonely on your own. :D
So 200 out of 7000 is acceptable- i would not say so especially when it is probably fair to say that you are calling the number short for the sake of your arguement.
Can you point me to where you think I said it was acceptable?- You implied it
Quote
UDA element within the crowd-Have you difficulty understanding this sentence?. Its true and you know it is. It was reported after the Poland Game on UTV Live that this was the case.
Well, evidently not having seen this UTV Live report, can direct me to another source? One I can view/read?- Cant at the minute, what am I UTV live archivist? Why would i make this up though[[/b]quote]
Match between NI and ROI supporters called off in 2011 because of PSNI fears of sectarian trouble after NI fan's disgraceful sectarian behaviour against Scotland-http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13384280.stm
Pretty significant difference between what you say and what the BBC report says.-
How?[/i]
Quote
What has this to do with sectarian singing? What does "draped in Union Jacks" mean - how many are you thinking of here? There's a hell of a lot more Tricolours at Ireland rugby matches - do you complain about them? Do you think them to sectarianism?-it has nothing to do with sectarian singing bu,t here is the newsflas,h this thread was not started to dicuss singing alone. Union Jacks are there in big numbers and are off putting for Nationalists. Not interested in rugby-sorry thats another thread.
What's the relevance to my challenge to you on your "Billy Boys" fantasy?-
As I said I started the thread to discuss the whole shindigAnd there are
not Union Flags in "big numbers". Unlike Tricolours at Ireland rugby games, which you don't have the cojones to attempt a comment on.-
Of course there is, wise up lad, its all over You Tube and other places. As for Tricolours at rugby matches thats because thats the National Team and Flag. The Union Jack is not the NI flag.[/b]
Quote
Again, what is the link to sectarianism? And what would constitute an acceptable volume for singing GSTQ? What's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games? I actually have been arguing the case for a NI-specific anthem for NI matches since the 1990s, by the way- it has often been used in the past incorrectly to intimidate nationalists, therefore based on this it is often perceived as sectarian.
It isn't sectarian. And again I ask - what's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games.-
I said perceived. If I thought a neutral anthem would encourage more Unionists to play, I woulnt be against it. How could you be?[/b]
Quote
Unfortunately it should have nothing to do with religion but it has been made so by NI set up over the years. Ask yourself why they support the Republic, this is the crux of the problem
I think there are myriad reasons, not least among them national identity and allegiance. And indeed the fact that the ROI team tends to be better and has a recent-ish (and upcoming) history of appearances at major tournaments. Perceptions based on the previous atmosphere at NI games plays some part I think, but not the leading part you're making out.-
You seem genuine and passionate about NI Team so if you really want to crack this issue dont underestimate the perceived indimitation that Windsor holds for many. I am comparitively broad minded to many others and look at how difficult i am to convince [/b]
Quote
Hmm. Going from this comment I think I've made the mistake of engaging with someone who isn't quite the full shilling. It's got a certain nonsensical quality to it, which, like some of your other comments, leaves me wondering if I need the services of a translator- again more personal abuse.
Again, I'm going to bring the "playing the man/playing the ball" concept to bear. This is perhaps an old-style fair tackle, playing the ball first and foremost - it's based around your nonsensical comment(s), and a hypothesis of mine based on these comments. So yeah a bit of "man" in there but this time I just couldn't resist once I'd played the ball :)
[/quote
]-Hate to finish off on a bad note but what a feable excuse for being hateful[/i]
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 12, 2012, 10:31:58 AM
The problem for the IFA is that by becoming more inclusive of the nationalist identity they are likely to alienate their core financial support.
I don't see that as a problem at all. They have around 14,000 fans at home games? Even if they alienated half of them (which i'd consider unlikely), it wouldn't be that hard to replace those numbers with the new support they'd attract.
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 13, 2012, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 12, 2012, 10:31:58 AM
The problem for the IFA is that by becoming more inclusive of the nationalist identity they are likely to alienate their core financial support.
I don't see that as a problem at all. They have around 14,000 fans at home games? Even if they alienated half of them (which i'd consider unlikely), it wouldn't be that hard to replace those numbers with the new support they'd attract.
Mmmm. Have you seen any games?
Anybody hear thon t.wat Stephen Watson (the guy who squeeled on Jerome Quinn) on BBC Newsline tonight before the Heineken Cup match at Ravenhill?
Out of the blue after talking about Rugby, he decided to 'break' the news that a player from 'Londonderry' (McCabe or McDaid or something like that) has been left out of Trappatoni's squad. He went on to boast with a smile like a Chesire cats that 'this is the player who opted for the Republic of Ireland despite being born in Northern Ireland'. You would have needed to hear his tone and see his face full of glee at this.
He's certainly a man who you wouldn't get sick of beating.
Nice wee letter from one of our compatriots sna sé contae...
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/letters/ifa-has-set-an-example-to-the-sectarian-gaa-16103022.html
I'm thinkin of droppin them a wee line about Peter Withnell, Jack Boothman, the Ulster Council Outreach programme, muslims, hindus, jews, mormons, etc, etc playing gaelic games worldwide....any other suggestions..
Quote from: 4father on January 13, 2012, 09:16:41 PM
Anybody hear thon t.wat Stephen Watson (the guy who squeeled on Jerome Quinn) on BBC Newsline tonight before the Heineken Cup match at Ravenhill?
Out of the blue after talking about Rugby, he decided to 'break' the news that a player from 'Londonderry' (McCabe or McDaid or something like that) has been left out of Trappatoni's squad. He went on to boast with a smile like a Chesire cats that 'this is the player who opted for the Republic of Ireland despite being born in Northern Ireland'. You would have needed to hear his tone and see his face full of glee at this.
He's certainly a man who you wouldn't get sick of beating.
I always found Watson to be more than slightly annoying, a twat is an understatement
Quote from: 4father on January 13, 2012, 09:16:41 PM
Anybody hear thon t.wat Stephen Watson (the guy who squeeled on Jerome Quinn) on BBC Newsline tonight before the Heineken Cup match at Ravenhill?
Out of the blue after talking about Rugby, he decided to 'break' the news that a player from 'Londonderry' (McCabe or McDaid or something like that) has been left out of Trappatoni's squad. He went on to boast with a smile like a Chesire cats that 'this is the player who opted for the Republic of Ireland despite being born in Northern Ireland'. You would have needed to hear his tone and see his face full of glee at this.
He's certainly a man who you wouldn't get sick of beating.
Just seen the story. This wont bother Mc Clean. In fact this will prove once and for all that Mc Clean is not a mercenary as people on here have suggested. He is mature and is clearly on record saying that he understands that he will have to await his chance. I fully understand Trap's position. Watson the t**t wouldnt have the character that Mc Clean has, so we should just switch him over at every opportunity.
Quote from: 5 Sams on January 13, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
Nice wee letter from one of our compatriots sna sé contae...
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/letters/ifa-has-set-an-example-to-the-sectarian-gaa-16103022.html
I'm thinkin of droppin them a wee line about Peter Withnell, Jack Boothman, the Ulster Council Outreach programme, muslims, hindus, jews, mormons, etc, etc playing gaelic games worldwide....any other suggestions..
All of this is in stark contrast to the sectarian GAA, which has no Protestant players - let alone managerswe all know this is not true, and of course we ask players what religione they are when the join the GAA. what about the Cuchulainn under-16 hurling team as well?
Oh and Watson is a complete tool
Don't always agree with what he says ,but Joe Brolly raises a lot of valid points with regards to the problems a lot of people in the six counties( myself included) have with supporting Northern Ireland in Soccer ,( not sure how to insert a link to it here though)
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on January 22, 2012, 02:51:01 PM
Don't always agree with what he says ,but Joe Brolly raises a lot of valid points with regards to the problems a lot of people in the six counties( myself included) have with supporting Northern Ireland in Soccer ,( not sure how to insert a link to it here though)
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=20983.0
Joe Brolly's a bigoted wee t**t. Like so many 'gaels', he starts from the position that if you don't play GAA, speak Irish, or know the words to a hundred dirges that drone on about our glorious dead and the perfidious Brits, then really you're not Irish at all. He and his like (that big eejit Jarlath Burns is the same) are the Irish equivalent of the BNP.
On the wider issue of whether or not the GAA is sectarian: people are saying that it isn't because noone asks your religion when you sign up. That's ducking the issue. Employment legislation recognises discrimination as being more than whether or not someone asks what school you went to. In years gone by, the likes of Shorts and Harland and Wolff were guilty of discrimination, not because they asked someone's religion, but because they created they conditions that meant it was highly unlikely that a Catholic would apply for a job in the first place. (Jobs passed on from father to son ie from Protestant to Protestant, work spaces bedecked with loyalist memorabilia, etc) The GAA is exactly the same. The overwhelming, all pervading nationalist / republican ethos of the organisation means that very few protestants would feel comfortable going anywhere near a GAA club. People on here get uptight about 'kick the pope bands' being named after loyalist killers, but have no problem with GAA competitions or clubs being named in honour of IRA killers. People go on about GSTQ being played before NI football games, but have no problem with A Soldier's Song (it was written in English, so f**k off with the Paddy whackery language stuff) being played before county games. And why does the tricolour have to fly above every GAA ground? Why does the winning captain of the All Ireland champions have to start his victory speech in Irish? Etc etc etc. I can understand why some people have a problem with NI football, though it's not half as bad as painted by Brolly, by please don't try and kid yourself that the GAA is some sort of beacon of tolerance and diversity.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 22, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Joe Brolly's a bigoted wee t**t. Like so many 'gaels', he starts from the position that if you don't play GAA, speak Irish, or know the words to a hundred dirges that drone on about our glorious dead and the perfidious Brits, then really you're not Irish at all. He and his like (that big eejit Jarlath Burns is the same) are the Irish equivalent of the BNP.
On the wider issue of whether or not the GAA is sectarian: people are saying that it isn't because noone asks your religion when you sign up. That's ducking the issue. Employment legislation recognises discrimination as being more than whether or not someone asks what school you went to. In years gone by, the likes of Shorts and Harland and Wolff were guilty of discrimination, not because they asked someone's religion, but because they created they conditions that meant it was highly unlikely that a Catholic would apply for a job in the first place. (Jobs passed on from father to son ie from Protestant to Protestant, work spaces bedecked with loyalist memorabilia, etc) The GAA is exactly the same. The overwhelming, all pervading nationalist / republican ethos of the organisation means that very few protestants would feel comfortable going anywhere near a GAA club. People on here get uptight about 'kick the pope bands' being named after loyalist killers, but have no problem with GAA competitions or clubs being named in honour of IRA killers. People go on about GSTQ being played before NI football games, but have no problem with A Soldier's Song (it was written in English, so f**k off with the Paddy whackery language stuff) being played before county games. And why does the tricolour have to fly above every GAA ground? Why does the winning captain of the All Ireland champions have to start his victory speech in Irish? Etc etc etc. I can understand why some people have a problem with NI football, though it's not half as bad as painted by Brolly, by please don't try and kid yourself that the GAA is some sort of beacon of tolerance and diversity.
That's about as bigoted a rant as I've seen on this site.
The GAA is an organisation specifically dedicated to the preservation and promotion of Irish culture and what it (quaintly) refers to as "pastimes". And you're complaining that its members speak, or attempt to speak Irish on ceremonial occasions? And this makes THEM the bigots!
Of course, your attitude to the Irish language is betrayed by your dismissal of it as "paddywhackery". And you reach the mind-boggling conclusion that somebody with that attitude would be unwelcome, or feel uncomfortable in an organisation dedicated to its promotion. As my teenage goddaughter would say - HELLO!
So it's not what you call "protestants" who would have any reason to feel uncomfortable in GAA surroundings (because, as you correctly note, nobody in the GAA I know recognises such a label) but bigots who dismiss Irish culture as “paddywhackery”.
By the way, the "people on here" who have no problem with GAA clubs being "named in honour of IRA killers" are a minority. In the GAA as a whole, they are a very tiny minority.
If I had my way, I'd cleanse the organisation of any and all political symbols. I’m strongly in favour of positive action to broaden our appeal across all communities. Strangely enough, we have great success in that regard with nearly every ethnic grouping you can name, here in Ireland and abroad. Perhaps that may have something to do with the fact that (to paraphrase Muhammad Ali) no Nigerian, Pole, Latvian or Englishman ever called our Association’s raison d’etre “paddywhackery” while simultaneously whinging about feeling excluded.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 22, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Joe Brolly's a bigoted wee t**t. Like so many 'gaels', he starts from the position that if you don't play GAA, speak Irish, or know the words to a hundred dirges that drone on about our glorious dead and the perfidious Brits, then really you're not Irish at all. He and his like (that big eejit Jarlath Burns is the same) are the Irish equivalent of the BNP.On the wider issue of whether or not the GAA is sectarian: people are saying that it isn't because noone asks your religion when you sign up. That's ducking the issue. Employment legislation recognises discrimination as being more than whether or not someone asks what school you went to. In years gone by, the likes of Shorts and Harland and Wolff were guilty of discrimination, not because they asked someone's religion, but because they created they conditions that meant it was highly unlikely that a Catholic would apply for a job in the first place. (Jobs passed on from father to son ie from Protestant to Protestant, work spaces bedecked with loyalist memorabilia, etc) The GAA is exactly the same. The overwhelming, all pervading nationalist / republican ethos of the organisation means that very few protestants would feel comfortable going anywhere near a GAA club. People on here get uptight about 'kick the pope bands' being named after loyalist killers, but have no problem with GAA competitions or clubs being named in honour of IRA killers. People go on about GSTQ being played before NI football games, but have no problem with A Soldier's Song (it was written in English, so f**k off with the Paddy whackery language stuff) being played before county games. And why does the tricolour have to fly above every GAA ground? Why does the winning captain of the All Ireland champions have to start his victory speech in Irish? Etc etc etc. I can understand why some people have a problem with NI football, though it's not half as bad as painted by Brolly, by please don't try and kid yourself that the GAA is some sort of beacon of tolerance and diversity.
Joe Brolly/J Burns Irish equivalent BNP?? What a mad statement!!
Quote from: Hardy on January 22, 2012, 06:57:03 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 22, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Joe Brolly's a bigoted wee t**t. Like so many 'gaels', he starts from the position that if you don't play GAA, speak Irish, or know the words to a hundred dirges that drone on about our glorious dead and the perfidious Brits, then really you're not Irish at all. He and his like (that big eejit Jarlath Burns is the same) are the Irish equivalent of the BNP.
On the wider issue of whether or not the GAA is sectarian: people are saying that it isn't because noone asks your religion when you sign up. That's ducking the issue. Employment legislation recognises discrimination as being more than whether or not someone asks what school you went to. In years gone by, the likes of Shorts and Harland and Wolff were guilty of discrimination, not because they asked someone's religion, but because they created they conditions that meant it was highly unlikely that a Catholic would apply for a job in the first place. (Jobs passed on from father to son ie from Protestant to Protestant, work spaces bedecked with loyalist memorabilia, etc) The GAA is exactly the same. The overwhelming, all pervading nationalist / republican ethos of the organisation means that very few protestants would feel comfortable going anywhere near a GAA club. People on here get uptight about 'kick the pope bands' being named after loyalist killers, but have no problem with GAA competitions or clubs being named in honour of IRA killers. People go on about GSTQ being played before NI football games, but have no problem with A Soldier's Song (it was written in English, so f**k off with the Paddy whackery language stuff) being played before county games. And why does the tricolour have to fly above every GAA ground? Why does the winning captain of the All Ireland champions have to start his victory speech in Irish? Etc etc etc. I can understand why some people have a problem with NI football, though it's not half as bad as painted by Brolly, by please don't try and kid yourself that the GAA is some sort of beacon of tolerance and diversity.
That's about as bigoted a rant as I've seen on this site.
The GAA is an organisation specifically dedicated to the preservation and promotion of Irish culture and what it (quaintly) refers to as "pastimes". And you're complaining that its members speak, or attempt to speak Irish on ceremonial occasions? And this makes THEM the bigots!
Of course, your attitude to the Irish language is betrayed by your dismissal of it as "paddywhackery". And you reach the mind-boggling conclusion that somebody with that attitude would be unwelcome, or feel uncomfortable in an organisation dedicated to its promotion. As my teenage goddaughter would say - HELLO!
So it's not what you call "protestants" who would have any reason to feel uncomfortable in GAA surroundings (because, as you correctly note, nobody in the GAA I know recognises such a label) but bigots who dismiss Irish culture as "paddywhackery".
By the way, the "people on here" who have no problem with GAA clubs being "named in honour of IRA killers" are a minority. In the GAA as a whole, they are a very tiny minority.
If I had my way, I'd cleanse the organisation of any and all political symbols. I'm strongly in favour of positive action to broaden our appeal across all communities. Strangely enough, we have great success in that regard with nearly every ethnic grouping you can name, here in Ireland and abroad. Perhaps that may have something to do with the fact that (to paraphrase Muhammad Ali) no Nigerian, Pole, Latvian or Englishman ever called our Association's raison d'etre "paddywhackery" while simultaneously whinging about feeling excluded.
+1
Excellent post and rebuff of Myles who certainly let thoul mask slip and reveal all his bigotry in its most naked fashion.
Quote from: Hardy on January 22, 2012, 06:57:03 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 22, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Joe Brolly's a bigoted wee t**t. Like so many 'gaels', he starts from the position that if you don't play GAA, speak Irish, or know the words to a hundred dirges that drone on about our glorious dead and the perfidious Brits, then really you're not Irish at all. He and his like (that big eejit Jarlath Burns is the same) are the Irish equivalent of the BNP.
On the wider issue of whether or not the GAA is sectarian: people are saying that it isn't because noone asks your religion when you sign up. That's ducking the issue. Employment legislation recognises discrimination as being more than whether or not someone asks what school you went to. In years gone by, the likes of Shorts and Harland and Wolff were guilty of discrimination, not because they asked someone's religion, but because they created they conditions that meant it was highly unlikely that a Catholic would apply for a job in the first place. (Jobs passed on from father to son ie from Protestant to Protestant, work spaces bedecked with loyalist memorabilia, etc) The GAA is exactly the same. The overwhelming, all pervading nationalist / republican ethos of the organisation means that very few protestants would feel comfortable going anywhere near a GAA club. People on here get uptight about 'kick the pope bands' being named after loyalist killers, but have no problem with GAA competitions or clubs being named in honour of IRA killers. People go on about GSTQ being played before NI football games, but have no problem with A Soldier's Song (it was written in English, so f**k off with the Paddy whackery language stuff) being played before county games. And why does the tricolour have to fly above every GAA ground? Why does the winning captain of the All Ireland champions have to start his victory speech in Irish? Etc etc etc. I can understand why some people have a problem with NI football, though it's not half as bad as painted by Brolly, by please don't try and kid yourself that the GAA is some sort of beacon of tolerance and diversity.
That's about as bigoted a rant as I've seen on this site.
The GAA is an organisation specifically dedicated to the preservation and promotion of Irish culture and what it (quaintly) refers to as "pastimes". And you're complaining that its members speak, or attempt to speak Irish on ceremonial occasions? And this makes THEM the bigots!
Of course, your attitude to the Irish language is betrayed by your dismissal of it as "paddywhackery". And you reach the mind-boggling conclusion that somebody with that attitude would be unwelcome, or feel uncomfortable in an organisation dedicated to its promotion. As my teenage goddaughter would say - HELLO!
So it's not what you call "protestants" who would have any reason to feel uncomfortable in GAA surroundings (because, as you correctly note, nobody in the GAA I know recognises such a label) but bigots who dismiss Irish culture as "paddywhackery".
By the way, the "people on here" who have no problem with GAA clubs being "named in honour of IRA killers" are a minority. In the GAA as a whole, they are a very tiny minority.
If I had my way, I'd cleanse the organisation of any and all political symbols. I'm strongly in favour of positive action to broaden our appeal across all communities. Strangely enough, we have great success in that regard with nearly every ethnic grouping you can name, here in Ireland and abroad. Perhaps that may have something to do with the fact that (to paraphrase Muhammad Ali) no Nigerian, Pole, Latvian or Englishman ever called our Association's raison d'etre "paddywhackery" while simultaneously whinging about feeling excluded.
The GAA is committed to the promotion of what it defines as Irish culture, and what it defines as Irish culture is a very narrow selection indeed. The one sentence in your post I would agree with is this one: 'If I had my way, I'd cleanse the organisation of any and all political symbols. I'm strongly in favour of positive action to broaden our appeal across all communities'. Do that, and I'd agree that the organisation is reaching out a hand to people on this island who are not gaelic/nationalist/ republican. Do away with the tricolour at matches, the playing of the 26 county anthem, the honouring of IRA men, the use of GAA grounds for hunger strike commemorations, etc etc, then maybe the GAA can start promoting itself as an open and diverse and welcoming body. Until then, it's just hot air. I'm speaking as someone who's father was a lifelong GAA member and as someone who played the sport at school. I don't feel 'excluded' by the GAA in the sense you imply: if I'm excluded, it's because I've excluded myself from the organisation because I find its vision of Irishness bigoted and limiting.
Chris Mc Gimpsey, Gusty Spence, just 2 loyalist examples of people who learnt Irish!! Why did they engage in this " Paddywhackery" stuff? You make a very sweeping statement!! As a gaeilgeoir I don't care who speaks it or who attempts to speak it! Maybe you are referring to the pathetic attempts made by All Ireland winning captains, I don't know!! I am sure you will clarify for us! The language doesn't belong to anyone and I detest any political party using the language to try to score points over other people!
Myles seems to be one of those Irish people who have a problem with any expressions of those things which make us Irish different - games , music , language etc.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 22, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
People go on about GSTQ being played before NI football games, but have no problem with A Soldier's Song (it was written in English, so f**k off with the Paddy whackery language stuff) being played before county games...
Why does the winning captain of the All Ireland champions have to start his victory speech in Irish?
Are you in the TUV?
Myles I stopped after two lines. Holy f**k man just admit you're a Unionist.
May I be permitted to add to this debate, by telling Myles to shove it up his arse.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 22, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Joe Brolly's a bigoted wee t**t. Like so many 'gaels', he starts from the position that if you don't play GAA, speak Irish, or know the words to a hundred dirges that drone on about our glorious dead and the perfidious Brits, then really you're not Irish at all. He and his like (that big eejit Jarlath Burns is the same) are the Irish equivalent of the BNP.
On the wider issue of whether or not the GAA is sectarian: people are saying that it isn't because noone asks your religion when you sign up. That's ducking the issue. Employment legislation recognises discrimination as being more than whether or not someone asks what school you went to. In years gone by, the likes of Shorts and Harland and Wolff were guilty of discrimination, not because they asked someone's religion, but because they created they conditions that meant it was highly unlikely that a Catholic would apply for a job in the first place. (Jobs passed on from father to son ie from Protestant to Protestant, work spaces bedecked with loyalist memorabilia, etc) The GAA is exactly the same. The overwhelming, all pervading nationalist / republican ethos of the organisation means that very few protestants would feel comfortable going anywhere near a GAA club. People on here get uptight about 'kick the pope bands' being named after loyalist killers, but have no problem with GAA competitions or clubs being named in honour of IRA killers. People go on about GSTQ being played before NI football games, but have no problem with A Soldier's Song (it was written in English, so f**k off with the Paddy whackery language stuff) being played before county games. And why does the tricolour have to fly above every GAA ground? Why does the winning captain of the All Ireland champions have to start his victory speech in Irish? Etc etc etc. I can understand why some people have a problem with NI football, though it's not half as bad as painted by Brolly, by please don't try and kid yourself that the GAA is some sort of beacon of tolerance and diversity.
Most ridiculous post i have ever read on this site!
That tergiversating twat (Myles) employs a board moniker of a true Gael, yet can't pass an opportunity up to do bitterly down anything remotely Gaelic. I can only assume that he's under (Orange) conjugal orders to so do, lest his bed be a cold place for Taigs, even of the most cravenly subservient variety.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 22, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
That tergiversating t**t (Myles) employs a board moniker of a true Gael, yet can't pass an opportunity up to do bitterly down anything remotely Gaelic. I can only assume that he's under (Orange) conjugal orders to so do, lest his bed be a cold place for Taigs, even of the most cravenly subservient variety.
I've a new phone with a dictionary.com app that i thought would never be used!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 22, 2012, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 22, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
That tergiversating t**t (Myles) employs a board moniker of a true Gael, yet can't pass an opportunity up to do bitterly down anything remotely Gaelic. I can only assume that he's under (Orange) conjugal orders to so do, lest his bed be a cold place for Taigs, even of the most cravenly subservient variety.
I've a new phone with a dictionary.com app that i thought would never be used!
Somebody else got a new phone with a thesaurus.com app that he was determined would be used. :P
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2012, 08:03:36 PM
Myles seems to be one of those Irish people who have a problem with any expressions of those things which make us Irish different - games , music , language etc.
Different from whom, other Irish people?? There are nearly 1 million citizens of this island who have no affinity or connection with either the Irish language or gaelic games. Does that mean they aren't Irish, or are they a slightly inferior kind of Irish - Irish lite, maybe? These things don't make us Irish. Nor does adherence to any political philosophy or religious creed make us Irish. What makes us Irish is being born on the island of Ireland, or being born into the family of people from the island of Ireland.
Quote from: cicfada on January 22, 2012, 07:57:36 PM
Chris Mc Gimpsey, Gusty Spence, just 2 loyalist examples of people who learnt Irish!! Why did they engage in this " Paddywhackery" stuff? You make a very sweeping statement!! As a gaeilgeoir I don't care who speaks it or who attempts to speak it! Maybe you are referring to the pathetic attempts made by All Ireland winning captains, I don't know!! I am sure you will clarify for us! The language doesn't belong to anyone and I detest any political party using the language to try to score points over other people!
+1
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 22, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
That tergiversating t**t (Myles) employs a board moniker of a true Gael, yet can't pass an opportunity up to do bitterly down anything remotely Gaelic. I can only assume that he's under (Orange) conjugal orders to so do, lest his bed be a cold place for Taigs, even of the most cravenly subservient variety.
In your shoes, I'd forget about the big words and focus more on eliminating your split infinitives. ;)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 07:09:12 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2012, 08:03:36 PM
Myles seems to be one of those Irish people who have a problem with any expressions of those things which make us Irish different - games , music , language etc.
Different from whom, other Irish people?? There are nearly 1 million citizens of this island who have no affinity or connection with either the Irish language or gaelic games. Does that mean they aren't Irish, or are they a slightly inferior kind of Irish - Irish lite, maybe? These things don't make us Irish. Nor does adherence to any political philosophy or religious creed make us Irish. What makes us Irish is being born on the island of Ireland, or being born into the family of people from the island of Ireland.
Myles, I share the view you purport to espouse about the multiplicity of Irish identities and their equal validity. Isn't it a little hypocritical, then, to select a single one of those identities for abuse and ridicule? Doubly so when you do it in the course of a demand for inclusiveness and equal respect for all?
You have to love those "Liberals" alright.
All types of Irish people are acceptable as long as you aren't a lover of Gaelic games , Irish Language , Traditional music, Ireland as a separate State, or any other forms of "Paddywhackery"
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 22, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Joe Brolly's a bigoted wee t**t. Like so many 'gaels', he starts from the position that if you don't play GAA, speak Irish, or know the words to a hundred dirges that drone on about our glorious dead and the perfidious Brits, then really you're not Irish at all. He and his like (that big eejit Jarlath Burns is the same) are the Irish equivalent of the BNP.
On the wider issue of whether or not the GAA is sectarian: people are saying that it isn't because noone asks your religion when you sign up. That's ducking the issue. Employment legislation recognises discrimination as being more than whether or not someone asks what school you went to. In years gone by, the likes of Shorts and Harland and Wolff were guilty of discrimination, not because they asked someone's religion, but because they created they conditions that meant it was highly unlikely that a Catholic would apply for a job in the first place. (Jobs passed on from father to son ie from Protestant to Protestant, work spaces bedecked with loyalist memorabilia, etc) The GAA is exactly the same. The overwhelming, all pervading nationalist / republican ethos of the organisation means that very few protestants would feel comfortable going anywhere near a GAA club. People on here get uptight about 'kick the pope bands' being named after loyalist killers, but have no problem with GAA competitions or clubs being named in honour of IRA killers. People go on about GSTQ being played before NI football games, but have no problem with A Soldier's Song (it was written in English, so f**k off with the Paddy whackery language stuff) being played before county games. And why does the tricolour have to fly above every GAA ground? Why does the winning captain of the All Ireland champions have to start his victory speech in Irish? Etc etc etc. I can understand why some people have a problem with NI football, though it's not half as bad as painted by Brolly, by please don't try and kid yourself that the GAA is some sort of beacon of tolerance and diversity.
0/10
So basically, "play the man" and "what about the GAA?"
Even your colleague, Evil Genius denounces you as a WUM. Sometimes it would be better to quit when you're not that far behind.
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 22, 2012, 10:20:11 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 22, 2012, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 22, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
That tergiversating t**t (Myles) employs a board moniker of a true Gael, yet can't pass an opportunity up to do bitterly down anything remotely Gaelic. I can only assume that he's under (Orange) conjugal orders to so do, lest his bed be a cold place for Taigs, even of the most cravenly subservient variety.
I've a new phone with a dictionary.com app that i thought would never be used!
Somebody else got a new phone with a thesaurus.com app that he was determined would be used. :P
Don't have a smartphone, some of us don't need them. :P
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 07:13:11 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 22, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
That tergiversating t**t (Myles) employs a board moniker of a true Gael, yet can't pass an opportunity up to do bitterly down anything remotely Gaelic. I can only assume that he's under (Orange) conjugal orders to so do, lest his bed be a cold place for Taigs, even of the most cravenly subservient variety.
In your shoes, I'd forget about the big words and focus more on eliminating your split infinitives. ;)
I'd prefer to split my infinitives (moot point as to whether that constitutes anything other than an unbearable snobbishness towards the use of the English language) than to have a self-flagellating split-personality! :P
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 09:33:38 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 07:09:12 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2012, 08:03:36 PM
Myles seems to be one of those Irish people who have a problem with any expressions of those things which make us Irish different - games , music , language etc.
Different from whom, other Irish people?? There are nearly 1 million citizens of this island who have no affinity or connection with either the Irish language or gaelic games. Does that mean they aren't Irish, or are they a slightly inferior kind of Irish - Irish lite, maybe? These things don't make us Irish. Nor does adherence to any political philosophy or religious creed make us Irish. What makes us Irish is being born on the island of Ireland, or being born into the family of people from the island of Ireland.
Myles, I share the view you purport to espouse about the multiplicity of Irish identities and their equal validity. Isn't it a little hypocritical, then, to select a single one of those identities for abuse and ridicule? Doubly so when you do it in the course of a demand for inclusiveness and equal respect for all?
I posted after reading Joe Brolly's bigoted rant about the NI football team. His article is full of half truths, out of date 'facts' and 'guilty by association' smears. I don't support NI, but I know many decent, honest people who do and it angers me when educated people like Brolly trot out this crap in an effort to make the unionist community look like sectarian morons. Having calmed down a bit since, let me restate my argument in a more measured way. I'm not against the Irish language. I studied it at school until 3rd year and spent 3 weeks of one summer at an Irish summer school at Garron Tower. I respect those who take the time and trouble to learn the language and it's one of those things I have down to do when I retire, though I doubt I'll ever get round to it. What I object to is the language being used as a cultural weapon with which to advance a political philosophy. It isn't the only thing that's used in this way - someone on the thread about Derry uses the term 'cultural nazism' and that's what it is. The GAA is part of this kind of thinking. To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together! I think of this kind of mindset as a kind of paddywhackery: it's fake, it's offensive and, in my view, it's not 'proper' Irish at all.
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 11:51:30 AM
Individual members of The GAA is are part of this kind of thinking.
Fixed that for you.
In this instance, Brolly was speaking as an individual, not as a member of either the GAA or the legal profession.
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
Are you for real?
Do you expect the GAA to sit there everyday and read the papers and then issue a statement whether it supports (or not) an article that someone wrote, just because they happen to be a member of the GAA.
Myles, you are one of the reasons this society has its troubles, your problem is easy explained thou, put simply, you are stupid.
Quote from: glens73 on January 23, 2012, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
Are you for real?
Do you expect the GAA to sit there everyday and read the papers and then issue a statement whether it supports (or not) an article that someone wrote, just because they happen to be a member of the GAA.
If someone is a high profile GAA member, sought out by the likes of the BBC or 'Gaelic Life' for their views on various matters (and Gaelic Life columnists don't limit themselves just to matters pertaining to gaelic sports) then yes, I would expect the GAA to react when they make headlines for their comments. To do otherwise is to allow the perception that they are putting forward mainstream GAA views to take root. (The fact that so many on here seem to have no problem with Brolly's comments, or Burns before that, would seem to confirm the my belief that these are views widely held within the GAA community).
Here's a reasoned response to Brolly's bigotry:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/sport/football/brolly_views_should_not_detract_from_ifa_progress_1_3445771
Quote from: shawshank on January 23, 2012, 01:24:22 PM
Myles, you are one of the reasons this society has its troubles, your problem is easy explained thou, put simply, you are stupid.
You might be right, but at least I can spell, ya thick!
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
::) ::)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
I am still waiting on their opinion on the Republican nomination for the US presidency as there are GAA members voted in the Iowa caucus. Until then I have to assume they are in favour of open marriages and sacking workers.
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2012, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
I am still waiting on their opinion on the Republican nomination for the US presidency as there are GAA members voted in the Iowa caucus. Until then I have to assume they are in favour of open marriages and sacking workers.
If the Republican nominee was himself a GAA member you'd have just made a relevant contribution to the thread. As it is, you haven't. ::) ::) ;)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
Is that you Olly ???
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
You really ought to stop digging yourself into this particular pit of bizarre prejudice and narrow-mindedness. Stupidity, while possibly an explanation, is not a valid defence.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:43:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2012, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
I am still waiting on their opinion on the Republican nomination for the US presidency as there are GAA members voted in the Iowa caucus. Until then I have to assume they are in favour of open marriages and sacking workers.
If the Republican nominee was himself a GAA member you'd have just made a relevant contribution to the thread. As it is, you haven't. ::) ::) ;)
No more of a stretch than your linking the GAA to your made up statement that Unionits are not proper Irish men. I could have asked for the GAA's opinions on the Iranian oil embargo (backed by GAA member Enda Kenny) but I was keeping in the spirit of your half baked attempts to link statements from a journalist paid to make sell papers by being controversial with an avowed non-political organisation.
PS I assume the Law Society are in agreement with Joes column and the DEL are in agreement with Jarlaths as neither have condemned it.
It's an opinion piece! Brolly is a hardened Republican and those are his views on the Northern Ireland team. There are vast chunks of people that feel the same way. His column is in no way worse than you suggesting that GAA folk believe you are not an Irishman unless you follow Gaelic Sports/Speak the language/enjoy the music etc. (you have accused Burns and Brolly of holding this viewpoint yet given no supporting evidence).
Personally I think you are over reacting. If you know Brolly you have to realise that in amongst all his hyperbole he has a basic point. A lot of Catholics aren't going to play for NI for a multitude of reasons!
His sole purpose is to wind people up, be they from Tyrone or from a Unionist/Loyalist background and anything he says should be taken with a pinch of salt!
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2012, 02:15:34 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:43:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2012, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
I am still waiting on their opinion on the Republican nomination for the US presidency as there are GAA members voted in the Iowa caucus. Until then I have to assume they are in favour of open marriages and sacking workers.
If the Republican nominee was himself a GAA member you'd have just made a relevant contribution to the thread. As it is, you haven't. ::) ::) ;)
No more of a stretch than your linking the GAA to your made up statement that Unionits are not proper Irish men. I could have asked for the GAA's opinions on the Iranian oil embargo (backed by GAA member Enda Kenny) but I was keeping in the spirit of your half baked attempts to link statements from a journalist paid to make sell papers by being controversial with an avowed non-political organisation.
PS I assume the Law Society are in agreement with Joes column and the DEL are in agreement with Jarlaths as neither have condemned it.
If Brolly had penned an offensive piece for the Law Society Times or some such, or if Burns had appeared regularly on BBC tv commenting on DEL matters, you might have a point. Again, however, you're wide of the mark. Likewise, Enda Kenny may be a GAA member, but he doesn't appear regularly in print or on the screen as a GAA pundit.
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
You really ought to stop digging yourself into this particular pit of bizarre prejudice and narrow-mindedness. Stupidity, while possibly an explanation, is not a valid defence.
If you say so... 8)
Brolly was giving an opinion which he is entitled to do. In fact a lot of what he says would go for many others in the North. It is a fact that a sizeable majority of Catholic/Nationalists/Republicans view the ROI as their national team. Some of them take a benign and even supportive view of NI, but the Union flags and the anthems do not represent the whole community in the north and if the IFA view this as part of their identity then why change it, but by the same token don't complain when some choose to declare for their National Team.
In relation to the GAA it is, as has been stated elsewhere an Irish Cultural and Sporting Organisation committed to the promotion of our language, sport and culture, it has an Irish Nationalist ethos and what is wrong with that? To my mind you can't seperate this from identity, that is not to say that we shouldn't encourage non nationalists to participate, if they support the organisations ideals. This does not make it bigoted or sectarian any more so than Aussie Rules or American football.
Unionists have every right to be consider Irish if they choose and this should not be diluted by any allegience they have to the Union. To my mind the people who most often describe Unionists as not being Irish are themselves. Although it must be said that at times some Nationalists/Republicans do push an exclusive brand of Irishness designed to freeze them out.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 02:52:03 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2012, 02:15:34 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:43:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2012, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 23, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
There you go again. In a craven attempt to climb down from your bigoted perch, you tumble blindly into a swill-pit of of foaming prejudice and spew another tirade of anti-GAA bigotry. Show me the evidence that "the GAA" believes that
"To be a 'proper' Irishman you have to enjoy gaelic games, speak Irish, like a certain kind of music, believe in a particular political structure. If you don't and you're from a nationalist background, you're dismissed as a west Brit, or a Castle Catholic, or a stoop, etc etc. Those from the unionist community aren't viewed as proper Irish at all. If they happen to support the NI football team, or cherish the political link with GB, or view NI as a country in its own right, then they're automatically assigned the label 'bigot'. And all this from the same people who talk about uniting the island and bringing people together".
Name the GAA officials who have propounded this extraordinary set of beliefs. Show me where they are stated in any GAA documentation.
It is quite bizarre that in a rant bemoaning the alleged demonisation of one whole community, you feel free to label the entire membership of the GAA as espousing a fanciful, made-up set of repugnant attitudes.
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
I am still waiting on their opinion on the Republican nomination for the US presidency as there are GAA members voted in the Iowa caucus. Until then I have to assume they are in favour of open marriages and sacking workers.
If the Republican nominee was himself a GAA member you'd have just made a relevant contribution to the thread. As it is, you haven't. ::) ::) ;)
No more of a stretch than your linking the GAA to your made up statement that Unionits are not proper Irish men. I could have asked for the GAA's opinions on the Iranian oil embargo (backed by GAA member Enda Kenny) but I was keeping in the spirit of your half baked attempts to link statements from a journalist paid to make sell papers by being controversial with an avowed non-political organisation.
PS I assume the Law Society are in agreement with Joes column and the DEL are in agreement with Jarlaths as neither have condemned it.
If Brolly had penned an offensive piece for the Law Society Times or some such, or if Burns had appeared regularly on BBC tv commenting on DEL matters, you might have a point. Again, however, you're wide of the mark. Likewise, Enda Kenny may be a GAA member, but he doesn't appear regularly in print or on the screen as a GAA pundit.
In neither case are they representing the GAA. Neither Gaelic Life nor the BBC who pay them for their views are controlled by the GAA. Perhaps you should take up your issue with those 2 organisations instead.
Anyway that is enough from me. I don't usually react to WUM's.
You'd think that every man and their dog would knows that Joe Brolly is not a GAA official.
But we have all known for years that Myles naG started out here putting lies to pen with the zeal of a fanatic.
back to Joe's article
The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.
Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'
True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.
When Jimmy Quinn's exquisite volley put the home team one up, the stand rocked to chants of 'Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' and 'Trick or Treat.'
That was over 18 years ago.
The stands didn't rock to that Joe. Though I was only listening to the game on radio, whatever went down in the cauldron of hate that night, if there were chants of Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' the stands were not rocking to it. Most popular that night- racist abuse to the black players, a constant torrent of racist and foul sectarian abuse, Billy Boys, The Sash every 5 minutes, GSTQ /No surrender and when Jimmy Quinn scored, afair, the crowd broke into 'Always look on the bright side of life'.
It is only nine years ago that Neil Lennon was hounded out of the national team by death threats from the Loyalist Volunteer Force
Undisputed fact.
Rewind a decade to George Best's testimonial at Windsor. That night, every time Roy Aitken the great Celtic captain touched the ball, the stand erupted in a frenzy of hate
That frenzy of hate can be heard on a documentary about Georgie which included a lot of footage from that game
The extent of the problem is illustrated in the simple fact that a catholic minded to support the 'North' can't even go for a drink with his fellow fans ..... one night in 1992 etc
I doubt that what existed 20 years ago is anywhere near as real for today.
Nigel Worthington, during his tenure as Northern Ireland manager, described the notion of a citizen from the 'north' declaring for the 'south' as 'ludicrous' and 'a loophole.'
Graham Luney, an influential journalist who writes for the largely protestant Belfast Telegraph wrote: 'We cannot afford to carry passengers who are dreaming of wearing the colours of another national team. Let players chase other countries if they want to.His newspaper routinely refers to the 'Londonderry-born McClean' and the 'Londonderry-born Duffy'
Undisputed facts
Michael O'Neill has always came across as one of the brighter managers around and I doubt he would want any player who doesn't want to play for the North. If rules came in to stop underage players changing national team at senior level then a lot of players may decide to play no international football rather than for Northern Ireland.
If certain things changed such as a move away from Windsor park and God Save the Queen not being played before games then it may be more attractive for some people to play for the North.
Myles na g , you really haven't a notion do you. When James Lawson gives an opinion do we take that to be the position of the English fa. I suppose George hook is a spokesman for the irfu? Jesus man, cop yourself on before you make an even bigger idiot out of yourself.
Quote from: Main Street on January 23, 2012, 08:24:12 PM
You'd think that every man and their dog would knows that Joe Brolly is not a GAA official.
But we have all known for years that Myles naG started out here putting lies to pen with the zeal of a fanatic.
back to Joe's article
The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.
Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'
True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.
But that's not what he said, though, is it? He quotes the lyrics (if you can call them that) of the song in full at the start of his article and refers to it as "the unofficial Northern Ireland supporters anthem" - which is garbage. You simply will not hear it at a NI match, that thankfully having been stamped out over a decade ago now, and if any song could be called the "unofficial NI supporters anthem", it would be "We're Not Brazil", or perhaps "We'll Support You Evermore", or (until the rugby boys nicked it) "Stand up for the Ulstermen".
This cuts to the heart of what Brolly's article is - a pretty spiteful, bigoted, ill-informed piece which reflects poorly on him as being rather prejudiced and also reflects very poorly on the Derry Journal for promoting what pretty much amounts to hate speech.
BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.
Quote When Jimmy Quinn's exquisite volley put the home team one up, the stand rocked to chants of 'Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' and 'Trick or Treat.'
That was over 18 years ago.
The stands didn't rock to that Joe. Though I was only listening to the game on radio, whatever went down in the cauldron of hate that night, if there were chants of Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' the stands were not rocking to it. Most popular that night- racist abuse to the black players, a constant torrent of racist and foul sectarian abuse, Billy Boys, The Sash every 5 minutes, GSTQ /No surrender and when Jimmy Quinn scored, afair, the crowd broke into 'Always look on the bright side of life'.
In large part fair comment (from you, not Brolly!). Though from my own memory after Quinn's goal the stadium "rocked" to "Here We Go" (now there's the unofficial NI supporters' anthem of the 1980s) and then "One Team in Ireland"! That supposed "Greysteel 7 Ireland 0" chant was a fictional episode written by Marie Jones (doesn't even have any internal logic within its sick parameters, I've always thought). (There is some youtube footage of the two goals and the final whistle - from first listen the only chant that's actually audible enough to make out is "Nor-thern Ire-land" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp9Bt18Rvv4).
On the "cauldron of hate" stuff - yes, there was some pretty awful sectarian and indeed racist stuff that night, accompanied by other less offensive but politically slanted "party songs" (in the old sense of the term, not as in party hats). Not acceptable in any shape or form and pretty damn ugly. However a lot of non-football commentators mixed this in with the hostility which is actually part and parcel of many football matches of various kinds of rivalry - booing, "England rejects", or "Judas" directed at Kernaghan.
As you say, it was 18 years ago, the mass murderers of the previous month's atrocities have long since been released from prison, yet this football match with some offensive chanting is still cast up as some sort of trump card. And the richest part of all is, Brolly has to take a completely fictional element of the whole thing and pass it off as actually having happened. He's pedlling a lie, in pursuit of a rather bitter-sounding agenda.
QuoteIt is only nine years ago that Neil Lennon was hounded out of the national team by death threats from the Loyalist Volunteer Force
Undisputed fact.
But what point is he making with it?
QuoteRewind a decade to George Best's testimonial at Windsor. That night, every time Roy Aitken the great Celtic captain touched the ball, the stand erupted in a frenzy of hate
That frenzy of hate can be heard on a documentary about Georgie which included a lot of footage from that game
This was back in the 1980s, before I even started going to football matches. However there's quite a lot of footage of the match on youtube, and "frenzy of hate" really doesn't seem apt from what I've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jRtvP6fTwk and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j84BKypnQZk (PS check out a young Michael O'Neill - and Liam Brady's reception)
QuoteThe extent of the problem is illustrated in the simple fact that a catholic minded to support the 'North' can't even go for a drink with his fellow fans ..... one night in 1992 etc
I doubt that what existed 20 years ago is anywhere near as real for today.
There's been plenty of stunned and incredulous reaction from this bit from IL and LOI fans of many stripes on Irish League supporters' forums!
QuoteNigel Worthington, during his tenure as Northern Ireland manager, described the notion of a citizen from the 'north' declaring for the 'south' as 'ludicrous' and 'a loophole.'
Graham Luney, an influential journalist who writes for the largely protestant Belfast Telegraph wrote: 'We cannot afford to carry passengers who are dreaming of wearing the colours of another national team. Let players chase other countries if they want to.His newspaper routinely refers to the 'Londonderry-born McClean' and the 'Londonderry-born Duffy'
Undisputed facts
The "Londonderry-born" bit is simply a BT style issue (Londonderry first, Derry every time thereafter) combined with a (rather repetitive) admittedly habit of referring to players' birthplaces as a means of providing a convenient adjective to jazz up an sentence. That "largely Protestant" bit is a bit of an ugly formulation, in my opinion.
In summary: Brolly seems to have toyed with a central thrust along the lines of nationalists' identity being much more compatible with the Republic of Ireland team than the Northern Ireland team. But, evidently, this wasn't enough for him and he had to go down a more spiteful route of smearing the NI support with half-truths and downright lies.
Actually, even on the identity stuff he cocks up, such as here: "Everton's Shane Duffy, for example, was brought up in Derry City and played Gaelic football for Doire Colmcille. He is an Irishman, not a Northerner. Which is why he has repeatedly stated he will never play for Northern Ireland". Duffy in fact played for the NI u-16, u-17, u-19, u-21 and B international teams, and was actually an unused substitute for the full international team. (Also, I don't see the relevance of the Doire Colmcille reference - I wonder would the club thank him for that one...)
Quote from: MW on January 23, 2012, 11:57:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 23, 2012, 08:24:12 PM
You'd think that every man and their dog would knows that Joe Brolly is not a GAA official.
But we have all known for years that Myles naG started out here putting lies to pen with the zeal of a fanatic.
back to Joe's article
The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.
Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'
True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.
But that's not what he said, though, is it? He quotes the lyrics (if you can call them that) of the song in full at the start of his article and refers to it as "the unofficial Northern Ireland supporters anthem" - which is garbage. You simply will not hear it at a NI match, that thankfully having been stamped out over a decade ago now, and if any song could be called the "unofficial NI supporters anthem", it would be "We're Not Brazil", or perhaps "We'll Support You Evermore", or (until the rugby boys nicked it) "Stand up for the Ulstermen".
This cuts to the heart of what Brolly's article is - a pretty spiteful, bigoted, ill-informed piece which reflects poorly on him as being rather prejudiced and also reflects very poorly on the Derry Journal for promoting what pretty much amounts to hate speech.
BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.
Quote When Jimmy Quinn's exquisite volley put the home team one up, the stand rocked to chants of 'Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' and 'Trick or Treat.'
That was over 18 years ago.
The stands didn't rock to that Joe. Though I was only listening to the game on radio, whatever went down in the cauldron of hate that night, if there were chants of Greysteel Seven, Ireland Nil' the stands were not rocking to it. Most popular that night- racist abuse to the black players, a constant torrent of racist and foul sectarian abuse, Billy Boys, The Sash every 5 minutes, GSTQ /No surrender and when Jimmy Quinn scored, afair, the crowd broke into 'Always look on the bright side of life'.
In large part fair comment (from you, not Brolly!). Though from my own memory after Quinn's goal the stadium "rocked" to "Here We Go" (now there's the unofficial NI supporters' anthem of the 1980s) and then "One Team in Ireland"! That supposed "Greysteel 7 Ireland 0" chant was a fictional episode written by Marie Jones (doesn't even have any internal logic within its sick parameters, I've always thought). (There is some youtube footage of the two goals and the final whistle - from first listen the only chant that's actually audible enough to make out is "Nor-thern Ire-land" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp9Bt18Rvv4).
On the "cauldron of hate" stuff - yes, there was some pretty awful sectarian and indeed racist stuff that night, accompanied by other less offensive but politically slanted "party songs" (in the old sense of the term, not as in party hats). Not acceptable in any shape or form and pretty damn ugly. However a lot of non-football commentators mixed this in with the hostility which is actually part and parcel of many football matches of various kinds of rivalry - booing, "England rejects", or "Judas" directed at Kernaghan.
As you say, it was 18 years ago, the mass murderers of the previous month's atrocities have long since been released from prison, yet this football match with some offensive chanting is still cast up as some sort of trump card. And the richest part of all is, Brolly has to take a completely fictional element of the whole thing and pass it off as actually having happened. He's pedlling a lie, in pursuit of a rather bitter-sounding agenda.
QuoteIt is only nine years ago that Neil Lennon was hounded out of the national team by death threats from the Loyalist Volunteer Force
Undisputed fact.
But what point is he making with it?
QuoteRewind a decade to George Best's testimonial at Windsor. That night, every time Roy Aitken the great Celtic captain touched the ball, the stand erupted in a frenzy of hate
That frenzy of hate can be heard on a documentary about Georgie which included a lot of footage from that game
This was back in the 1980s, before I even started going to football matches. However there's quite a lot of footage of the match on youtube, and "frenzy of hate" really doesn't seem apt from what I've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jRtvP6fTwk and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j84BKypnQZk (PS check out a young Michael O'Neill - and Liam Brady's reception)
QuoteThe extent of the problem is illustrated in the simple fact that a catholic minded to support the 'North' can't even go for a drink with his fellow fans ..... one night in 1992 etc
I doubt that what existed 20 years ago is anywhere near as real for today.
There's been plenty of stunned and incredulous reaction from this bit from IL and LOI fans of many stripes on Irish League supporters' forums!
QuoteNigel Worthington, during his tenure as Northern Ireland manager, described the notion of a citizen from the 'north' declaring for the 'south' as 'ludicrous' and 'a loophole.'
Graham Luney, an influential journalist who writes for the largely protestant Belfast Telegraph wrote: 'We cannot afford to carry passengers who are dreaming of wearing the colours of another national team. Let players chase other countries if they want to.His newspaper routinely refers to the 'Londonderry-born McClean' and the 'Londonderry-born Duffy'
Undisputed facts
The "Londonderry-born" bit is simply a BT style issue (Londonderry first, Derry every time thereafter) combined with a (rather repetitive) admittedly habit of referring to players' birthplaces as a means of providing a convenient adjective to jazz up an sentence. That "largely Protestant" bit is a bit of an ugly formulation, in my opinion.
In summary: Brolly seems to have toyed with a central thrust along the lines of nationalists' identity being much more compatible with the Republic of Ireland team than the Northern Ireland team. But, evidently, this wasn't enough for him and he had to go down a more spiteful route of smearing the NI support with half-truths and downright lies.
Actually, even on the identity stuff he cocks up, such as here: "Everton's Shane Duffy, for example, was brought up in Derry City and played Gaelic football for Doire Colmcille. He is an Irishman, not a Northerner. Which is why he has repeatedly stated he will never play for Northern Ireland". Duffy in fact played for the NI u-16, u-17, u-19, u-21 and B international teams, and was actually an unused substitute for the full international team. (Also, I don't see the relevance of the Doire Colmcille reference - I wonder would the club thank him for that one...)
You can stop your wondering now because I can tell you the club would thank him, why wouldnt they, NI football supporters are like hens teeth in Derry City
It suggests that playing for Doire Colmcille is self-evidently incompatible with going on to play international football for Northern Ireland (or even seeing oneself as a "Northerner"...? not a label I ascribe to anyway but still...). I know literally nothing about the club he mentions but it's not an entirely helpful impression he manages to give.
Also I don't know why you try to pretend it's a geographical reference - actually there are a fair few Northern Ireland fans in Derry/Londonderry.
If i was good enough I don't think i would play for the Northern Ireland team but that said Joe Brolly is no representative of my views on the matter. His article contains alot of half-truths and heresay.
Such a depressing thread.
Of course some nationalist lads will feel more attuned to ROI, others may be comfortable enough with stcking to the IFA who nutured their early careers..
Cut the base sectarian undertone out of it and let them make thier own minds up.
And for those ultra "Irish" talibanesque righteous fundamentals they would do well to remember that until the FAI decided they wanted their own wee fiefdom (corruption and all) there was only one football association in Ireland - and it is still the IFA. I would want it otherwise but facts can be uncomfortable.
Quote from: MW on January 24, 2012, 12:36:27 AM
It suggests that playing for Doire Colmcille is self-evidently incompatible with going on to play international football for Northern Ireland (or even seeing oneself as a "Northerner"...? not a label I ascribe to anyway but still...). I know literally nothing about the club he mentions but it's not an entirely helpful impression he manages to give.
Also I don't know why you try to pretend it's a geographical reference - actually there are a fair few Northern Ireland fans in Derry/Londonderry.
Your statement suggests that members of DC might be angry with Joe because of their ref to them, my retort was that they wont. My basis for that is that DC are based in the Westbank of Derry which is anout 97% nationalist and where suporting NI is foreign to most people's tastes. They simply won't mind, you really are not in touch with grass roots nationalist opinions in some areas. And on the geographical thingy there are areas where catholics are much less likely to give support to NI than others, Derry would be one of them. Joe refers to this point himself in the article. I stand corrected though on saying NI supporters are like hen's teeth in Derry, I should have clarified that I meant that I was talking about amongst the Cathloic community.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
This thread has a lot of nonsense on both sides of the argument but this rubbish takes the biscuit. The GAA are responsible for anything "broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions" and you regard what they say as official views of the GAA? Why in the name of all that is holy would the GAA have and official view on eligibility rules for international soccer?
Can you qualify that or outline how it might work?
Should the GAA have a committee to monitor all broadcasters and journalists? They can add them to a list if the "talk about the GAA on television or at public functions" then the comittee would be responsible to monitor their views on other issues (maybe a further comittee to decide the issues that are important like eligibility rules for international soccer teams). Once a member of the list gives a view on said issues then they would report to Central Council who would decide if the odds are at variance with the official position of the GAA and issues a statement "distancing the GAA" from the comments.
/Jim.
Quote from: MW on January 23, 2012, 11:57:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 23, 2012, 08:24:12 PM
The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.
Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'
True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.
But that's not what he said, though, is it? He quotes the lyrics (if you can call them that) of the song in full at the start of his article and refers to it as "the unofficial Northern Ireland supporters anthem" - which is garbage. You simply will not hear it at a NI match, that thankfully having been stamped out over a decade ago now, and if any song could be called the "unofficial NI supporters anthem", it would be "We're Not Brazil", or perhaps "We'll Support You Evermore", or (until the rugby boys nicked it) "Stand up for the Ulstermen".
This cuts to the heart of what Brolly's article is - a pretty spiteful, bigoted, ill-informed piece which reflects poorly on him as being rather prejudiced and also reflects very poorly on the Derry Journal for promoting what pretty much amounts to hate speech.
BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.
I understand that Brolly writes in the past tense when referring to singing of the Billy Boys at WP, and that understanding is confirmed (imo) when he states that ghosts of the pasts still hover over the stadium.
In Brolly's opinion and his perceptions, the ghosts of the past still hover over WP - even if the Billy Boys is not sung any more.
That's Brolly's opinion, that the 'old attitudes' still manifest themselves, for example in those petty dismissals of the validity of Irish nationality and what it means for those Irish nationals in NI.
Quote from: MW on January 23, 2012, 11:57:34 PM
BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.
Maybe this is what he was referring to:
http://www.linfieldfc.com/latestnews.asp?nid=2841 (http://www.linfieldfc.com/latestnews.asp?nid=2841)
"Linfield Football Club have withdrawn a CD containing twenty songs one of which contained material which could offend and may be deemed to encourage violence.
We would make it clear that this CD was produced independently by supporters.
Once we were made aware of the contents of this song, the CD was immediately withdrawn."
A bit of poetic license then.
Quote from: Ulick on January 24, 2012, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: MW on January 23, 2012, 11:57:34 PM
BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.
Maybe this is what he was referring to:
http://www.linfieldfc.com/latestnews.asp?nid=2841 (http://www.linfieldfc.com/latestnews.asp?nid=2841)
"Linfield Football Club have withdrawn a CD containing twenty songs one of which contained material which could offend and may be deemed to encourage violence.
We would make it clear that this CD was produced independently by supporters.
Once we were made aware of the contents of this song, the CD was immediately withdrawn."
April Fool
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 24, 2012, 05:31:37 PM
A bit of poetic license then.
Well that press release was 2008, Joe was mentions 2000, so it would be a fair guess that if they were selling CDs about "hammers and hatchets" in 2008 there would have been a fair amount of "Billy Boys" 8 years before that and before the much heralded "Football For All" campaign.
Quote from: Ulick on January 24, 2012, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: MW on January 23, 2012, 11:57:34 PM
BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.
Maybe this is what he was referring to:
http://www.linfieldfc.com/latestnews.asp?nid=2841 (http://www.linfieldfc.com/latestnews.asp?nid=2841)
"Linfield Football Club have withdrawn a CD containing twenty songs one of which contained material which could offend and may be deemed to encourage violence.
We would make it clear that this CD was produced independently by supporters.
Once we were made aware of the contents of this song, the CD was immediately withdrawn."
If he was, then he's talking nonsense, since that was nothing to do with The Billy Boys, or indeed any sectarian or loyalist song. And the offending lyric was actually aimed against Glentoran fans, so it's hard to see how he could have made the mistake unless he was plucking any old muddled memory out of this head - which would explain I guess why a fictional occurrence from a play became a real-life incident to him too, I guess...
Hammers, hatchets and .... stanley knives :)
But they were to be used to slice up Glentoran fans, so that wouldn't be a sectarian issue, would it?
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2012, 07:31:28 PM
Hammers, hatchets and .... stanley knives :)
But they were to be used to slice up Glentoran fans, so that wouldn't be a sectarian issue, would it?
It's an ecumenical song alright...originates in Birmingham I believe!
The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:
"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".
Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 24, 2012, 09:10:54 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
This thread has a lot of nonsense on both sides of the argument but this rubbish takes the biscuit. The GAA are responsible for anything "broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions" and you regard what they say as official views of the GAA? Why in the name of all that is holy would the GAA have and official view on eligibility rules for international soccer?
Can you qualify that or outline how it might work?
Should the GAA have a committee to monitor all broadcasters and journalists? They can add them to a list if the "talk about the GAA on television or at public functions" then the comittee would be responsible to monitor their views on other issues (maybe a further comittee to decide the issues that are important like eligibility rules for international soccer teams). Once a member of the list gives a view on said issues then they would report to Central Council who would decide if the odds are at variance with the official position of the GAA and issues a statement "distancing the GAA" from the comments.
/Jim.
Why not? They seem to have a committee for most other things. Jarlath Burns sits on a couple of them in fact...
http://ulster.gaa.ie/council/committees/
Of course, he's not a GAA official, Lord no.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 24, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 24, 2012, 09:10:54 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
This thread has a lot of nonsense on both sides of the argument but this rubbish takes the biscuit. The GAA are responsible for anything "broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions" and you regard what they say as official views of the GAA? Why in the name of all that is holy would the GAA have and official view on eligibility rules for international soccer?
Can you qualify that or outline how it might work?
Should the GAA have a committee to monitor all broadcasters and journalists? They can add them to a list if the "talk about the GAA on television or at public functions" then the comittee would be responsible to monitor their views on other issues (maybe a further comittee to decide the issues that are important like eligibility rules for international soccer teams). Once a member of the list gives a view on said issues then they would report to Central Council who would decide if the odds are at variance with the official position of the GAA and issues a statement "distancing the GAA" from the comments.
/Jim.
Why not? They seem to have a committee for most other things. Jarlath Burns sits on a couple of them in fact...
http://ulster.gaa.ie/council/committees/
Of course, he's not a GAA official, Lord no.
Do you know anything about the GAA or do you come on here specifically to show your complete ignorance?
Quote from: michaelg on January 24, 2012, 07:55:16 PM
The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:
"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".
Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point
How so?
What I would take from it is that Catholics played both sports while Protestants don't, however they have the opportunity to. I have played matches where members of the other team have been Protestant lads and they were very good at it. The lad who pointed it out to me said they were welcomed straight away when they moved to the area and have never had any bother. They just wanted to play football. I asked a fella I worked his opinion of the GAA. He said that they (I'm guessing he meant him and his friends) didn't play or watch it because they had no interest in it growing up. Never played it at school or anything. Soccer was always the sport they followed. That may have more to do with the point you raise than any perceived or perhaps real exclusion.
Quote from: michaelg on January 24, 2012, 07:55:16 PM
The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:
"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".
Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point
And there were more Catholics playing for Linfield last Saturday than the total number of Orange Order members with Catholic spouses since the foundation of that organisation in 1796. :P
Were Linfield not subject to sectarian abuse from Ballymena fans, something to the tune of "fenian scum" ;D
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 24, 2012, 07:35:30 AM
Quote from: MW on January 24, 2012, 12:36:27 AM
It suggests that playing for Doire Colmcille is self-evidently incompatible with going on to play international football for Northern Ireland (or even seeing oneself as a "Northerner"...? not a label I ascribe to anyway but still...). I know literally nothing about the club he mentions but it's not an entirely helpful impression he manages to give.
Also I don't know why you try to pretend it's a geographical reference - actually there are a fair few Northern Ireland fans in Derry/Londonderry.
Your statement suggests that members of DC might be angry with Joe because of their ref to them, my retort was that they wont. My basis for that is that DC are based in the Westbank of Derry which is anout 97% nationalist and where suporting NI is foreign to most people's tastes. They simply won't mind, you really are not in touch with grass roots nationalist opinions in some areas. And on the geographical thingy there are areas where catholics are much less likely to give support to NI than others, Derry would be one of them. Joe refers to this point himself in the article. I stand corrected though on saying NI supporters are like hen's teeth in Derry, I should have clarified that I meant that I was talking about amongst the Cathloic community.
Well if they're not concerned, they should be, in my opinion. Brolly is using "played for Doire Colmcille" as a "tell" showing that "this guy is self-evidently a strong nationalist, so much so that he will want never to play for the Northern Ireland football team". Saying he didn't think that anyone who had ever played for Doire Colmcille would represent NI at soccer would be bad enough, to wield "played for Doire Colmcille" as such a marker, apparently not needing explanation, is worse again. Put it this way, if someone used the name of the football club I play for, which is based in inner East Belfast, in this way to make statements like this I wouldn't be happy.
What is it, then, that Brolly thinks "played for Doire Colmcille" means, that, for example, "played for Donaghmore" does not? Anyway, given that the only reason Shane Duffy didn't win a cap for Northern Ireland back in 2009 was that Nigel Worthington left him on the bench in the friendly against Italy, Brolly's making a rather spurious point (and remember Duffy played for NI at all underage levels and at B international level too).
Now, you directed a longer post to me that I haven't replied to...
Quote from: MW on January 24, 2012, 10:51:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 24, 2012, 07:35:30 AM
Quote from: MW on January 24, 2012, 12:36:27 AM
It suggests that playing for Doire Colmcille is self-evidently incompatible with going on to play international football for Northern Ireland (or even seeing oneself as a "Northerner"...? not a label I ascribe to anyway but still...). I know literally nothing about the club he mentions but it's not an entirely helpful impression he manages to give.
Also I don't know why you try to pretend it's a geographical reference - actually there are a fair few Northern Ireland fans in Derry/Londonderry.
Your statement suggests that members of DC might be angry with Joe because of their ref to them, my retort was that they wont. My basis for that is that DC are based in the Westbank of Derry which is anout 97% nationalist and where suporting NI is foreign to most people's tastes. They simply won't mind, you really are not in touch with grass roots nationalist opinions in some areas. And on the geographical thingy there are areas where catholics are much less likely to give support to NI than others, Derry would be one of them. Joe refers to this point himself in the article. I stand corrected though on saying NI supporters are like hen's teeth in Derry, I should have clarified that I meant that I was talking about amongst the Cathloic community.
Well if they're not concerned, they should be, in my opinion. Brolly is using "played for Doire Colmcille" as a "tell" showing that "this guy is self-evidently a strong nationalist, so much so that he will want never to play for the Northern Ireland football team". Saying he didn't think that anyone who had ever played for Doire Colmcille would represent NI at soccer would be bad enough, to wield "played for Doire Colmcille" as such a marker, apparently not needing explanation, is worse again. Put it this way, if someone used the name of the football club I play for, which is based in inner East Belfast, in this way to make statements like this I wouldn't be happy.
What is it, then, that Brolly thinks "played for Doire Colmcille" means, that, for example, "played for Donaghmore" does not? Anyway, given that the only reason Shane Duffy didn't win a cap for Northern Ireland back in 2009 was that Nigel Worthington left him on the bench in the friendly against Italy, Brolly's making a rather spurious point (and remember Duffy played for NI at all underage levels and at B international level too).
Now, you directed a longer post to me that I haven't replied to...
Quaking in my boots MW :D
Eh? just letting you know I'm going to get round to replying :-\
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1066293#msg1066293I have already said in another post that I have first hand experience of this outside the ground. I have also had second hand evidence from trusted sources. Your evidence is no stronger than that, you are just another second hand source to me also. So its a choice of who to believe and I have never met you so I choose to go with other people's evidence[/b]
You've been told by other people on this thread that it doesn't happen. I've been posting on here for nearly 8 years (Lordy) and I'd like to think that those who've had the misfortune to follow my posts over some of that duration would know that I'm not in the business of denying instances of sectarianism. "The Billy Boys" is not sung at Northern Ireland matches, and these "trusted sources" of yours, if they exist, are misleading you in a quite appalling way.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1066293#msg1066293I can see you're struggling here so let me help you with a little soccer metaphor that's quite common in this context - "play the man, not the ball". I did not call you wierd, I called your version of events wierd. Similarly, I called your version of events fantasy.- That was personal enough to me
Well it's not personal whatsoever (ball, not man), and if you don't like an erroneous version of events being called out, you really shouldn't bother with a discussion forum
QuoteAu contraire, I enjoy being challenged - one of the reasons I enjoy posting on here. I don't like downright lies and silly personal comments.-Well stop making so many then :D
You really, really need to understand the difference between your views and statements criticised and making a personal comment, or you're never going to be able to engage is adult debate and discussion.
QuoteCan you point me to where you think I said it was acceptable?- You implied it
No, I did not. You (wrongly) inferred it.
Quote
Well, evidently not having seen this UTV Live report, can direct me to another source? One I can view/read?- Cant at the minute, what am I UTV live archivist? Why would i make this up though[[/b]quote]
Why did you make up the stuff about "The Billy Boys" still being sung at NI games?
QuotePretty significant difference between what you say and what the BBC report says.- How?[/i]
For starters, the article doesn't actually directly link the PSNI to the Dublin authorities' decision.
Quote
As I said I started the thread to discuss the whole shindig[/i]
And I am calling you out on your "Billy Boys" fantasy.
Quote
And there are not Union Flags in "big numbers". Unlike Tricolours at Ireland rugby games, which you don't have the cojones to attempt a comment on.- Of course there is, wise up lad, its all over You Tube and other places. As for Tricolours at rugby matches thats because thats the National Team and Flag. The Union Jack is not the NI flag.[/b]
If you think single figures are "big numbers", maybe.
You've just revealed a hell of a lot with that comment, by the way. The Ireland rugby team represents the island of Ireland (32 counties) - the Tricolour is the national flag of the Republic of Ireland. Isn't it rather hypocritical all your talk about flags and the rest here, when you have apparently absolutely no issue with the many, many ROI flags (many times more than you'd see Union flags at a NI football match) at Ireland rugby games?
By the way, the Union flag actually
is the official NI flag...but still, I'm not a fan of its unofficial use at NI matches.
QuoteIt isn't sectarian. And again I ask - what's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games.- I said perceived. If I thought a neutral anthem would encourage more Unionists to play, I woulnt be against it. How could you be?[/b]
Good - I hope you make those views known.
QuoteYou seem genuine and passionate about NI Team so if you really want to crack this issue dont underestimate the perceived indimitation that Windsor holds for many. I am comparitively broad minded to many others and look at how difficult i am to convince [/b]
Two comments here: I think you're difficult to convince because you're believing what you want to believe. And challenging untruths like you have posted on here, and Mr Brolly had published in the Derry Journal, will actually help towards lowering the "perceived intimidation".
Quote
Hate to finish off on a bad note but what a feable excuse for being hateful[/i]
Lordy, that takes the biscuit. Saying your odd comments directed against me mde me think maybe you weren't the full shilling is "being hateful"? You've clearly been very, very lucky so far in your interpersonal relationships.
And weren't you the person who said to me..."A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality", and also said..."WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!". Again, you should watch how easy it is to come across as a hypocrite...
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2012, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: MW on January 23, 2012, 11:57:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 23, 2012, 08:24:12 PM
The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.
Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'
True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.
But that's not what he said, though, is it? He quotes the lyrics (if you can call them that) of the song in full at the start of his article and refers to it as "the unofficial Northern Ireland supporters anthem" - which is garbage. You simply will not hear it at a NI match, that thankfully having been stamped out over a decade ago now, and if any song could be called the "unofficial NI supporters anthem", it would be "We're Not Brazil", or perhaps "We'll Support You Evermore", or (until the rugby boys nicked it) "Stand up for the Ulstermen".
This cuts to the heart of what Brolly's article is - a pretty spiteful, bigoted, ill-informed piece which reflects poorly on him as being rather prejudiced and also reflects very poorly on the Derry Journal for promoting what pretty much amounts to hate speech.
BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.
I understand that Brolly writes in the past tense when referring to singing of the Billy Boys at WP, and that understanding is confirmed (imo) when he states that ghosts of the pasts still hover over the stadium.
In Brolly's opinion and his perceptions, the ghosts of the past still hover over WP - even if the Billy Boys is not sung any more.
That's Brolly's opinion, that the 'old attitudes' still manifest themselves, for example in those petty dismissals of the validity of Irish nationality and what it means for those Irish nationals in NI.
Brolly isn't writing is the past tense though. He says The Billy Boys "has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial" - that means it's still current. If I say "Bill Clinton has been in office since 1993", I'm saying that he's still in office. If I say that Israel "has occupied Sinai since 1967", I'm saying they still occupy it.
And he refers to The Billy Boys as "the unofficial NI supporters anthem" (let's leave aside the fact that it was
never any such thing) - if I refer to Bill Clinton in the context above as "the President of the United States", I imply that he's still the President. If I refer to Israel as "the occupying military power in the Sinai", I mean that they are still the occupying power. Unless they statements are bounded by an end date ("until 2001/1982") or clearly caveated ("the ex-President/former occupying power"), they're not past tense at all.
Quote from: michaelg on January 24, 2012, 07:55:16 PM
The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:
"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".
Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point
Interesting only in that it highlights the mindset of many Protestants living in Derry. It is hardly surprising that people who won't spend their money in Catholic-owned shops, who would sell land privately to a co-religionist for considerably less than a Catholic neighbour would have been willing to pay for it and who won't set foot inside a Catholic church even to attend a neighbour's funeral, are not prepared to socialise and play sports with their Catholic neighbours on the Holy Sabbath. IMO, it is the fear of isolation and exclusion from their Protestant neighbours that leads to this, not any moral high ground or direct objections to the GAA.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 24, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
Why not? They seem to have a committee for most other things. Jarlath Burns sits on a couple of them in fact...
http://ulster.gaa.ie/council/committees/
Of course, he's not a GAA official, Lord no.
Who claimed he is not an official? What is your point?
He is a teacher too!
Must his school/department also issue a statement vis-a-vis his support of Marty's presidential campaign?Ditto Brolly and his occupation as a barrister. S
hould we expect the law library to make known their formal position on eligibility rules for international football.Quite frankly, you are talking patent nonsense here. I am a GAA member and I am quite happy that the GAA don't have a formal position on said rules or on the candidacy of anyone running for president. It's as it should be. Individual members can hold their views and good luck to them.
/Jim.
Quote from: MW on January 25, 2012, 12:04:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2012, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: MW on January 23, 2012, 11:57:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 23, 2012, 08:24:12 PM
The unofficial Northern Ireland supporters' anthem has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial.
Until the new Millennium, you could buy the CD in the Windsor Park shop. Now, the supporters' store has been cleansed of overtly sectarian material, but the culture lingers and the ghosts of the recent past still hover over the stadium.'
True enough, NI fans use to sing the Billy Boys at WP.
But that's not what he said, though, is it? He quotes the lyrics (if you can call them that) of the song in full at the start of his article and refers to it as "the unofficial Northern Ireland supporters anthem" - which is garbage. You simply will not hear it at a NI match, that thankfully having been stamped out over a decade ago now, and if any song could be called the "unofficial NI supporters anthem", it would be "We're Not Brazil", or perhaps "We'll Support You Evermore", or (until the rugby boys nicked it) "Stand up for the Ulstermen".
This cuts to the heart of what Brolly's article is - a pretty spiteful, bigoted, ill-informed piece which reflects poorly on him as being rather prejudiced and also reflects very poorly on the Derry Journal for promoting what pretty much amounts to hate speech.
BTW that "buy the CD" stuff seems to be pure fiction.
I understand that Brolly writes in the past tense when referring to singing of the Billy Boys at WP, and that understanding is confirmed (imo) when he states that ghosts of the pasts still hover over the stadium.
In Brolly's opinion and his perceptions, the ghosts of the past still hover over WP - even if the Billy Boys is not sung any more.
That's Brolly's opinion, that the 'old attitudes' still manifest themselves, for example in those petty dismissals of the validity of Irish nationality and what it means for those Irish nationals in NI.
Brolly isn't writing is the past tense though. He says The Billy Boys "has echoed around Windsor Park since time immemorial" - that means it's still current. If I say "Bill Clinton has been in office since 1993", I'm saying that he's still in office. If I say that Israel "has occupied Sinai since 1967", I'm saying they still occupy it.
And he refers to The Billy Boys as "the unofficial NI supporters anthem" (let's leave aside the fact that it was never any such thing) - if I refer to Bill Clinton in the context above as "the President of the United States", I imply that he's still the President. If I refer to Israel as "the occupying military power in the Sinai", I mean that they are still the occupying power. Unless they statements are bounded by an end date ("until 2001/1982") or clearly caveated ("the ex-President/former occupying power"), they're not past tense at all.
I understood his past tense was defined in the line 'the ghosts of the past still hover over WP'
But I agree in general with your point because even if Brolly was referring to the past, he is far from clear and much of that paraphenalia has been dropped from the WP repetoire ages ago.
And it does nobody any good to be repeating these things from the past, time and time again, as if it's a reflection of current day. No honest cause is served by painting false images of the NI support.
Brolly is a soliciter and should know better how to compose the structure of a debate based on facts and ideology.
However the ghosts of the past still hover, as I referred to earlier in this thread could be evidenced in the Ni fans representatives on Wendy's morning radio show, where the old supremacy views bares its teeth after a little 'prodding'. And these were the reps of the NI fans. Okay, I might make an allowance for emotion getting ahead of rational argument but the more they open their mouths the more you might get the impression that the old bigotry is just under the new suit.
Quote from: michaelg on January 24, 2012, 07:55:16 PM
The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:
"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".
Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point
What's interesting about it? Some little loyalists over on OWC drag religion into a debate about national identity, quelle surprise... If anything it just strengthens Bolly's case, in that you still don't get it...
Aye, Ulick, right enough Brolly didn't mention religion did he?
"No Catholic would dare set foot in them"
"first Ulster-born Catholic in nearly 50 years"
"trying to recruit Northern Irish Catholics who have previously rejected the notion of playing for the North"
"the largely protestant Belfast Telegraph"
Yes it was clearly those evil loyalists on OWC who introduced religion into this reasoned debate on identity from Brolly.
I wonder, how many times do you have to be shown to be so spectacularly wrong before you start to question your "themmuns bad, ussuns good" worldview that leads you to jump in feet first with these kind of comments?
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 24, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 24, 2012, 09:10:54 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 23, 2012, 01:05:10 PM
In the course of this thread I've already named 2, namely Brolly and Burns. How many do you want? These two may or may not hold an official post within the organisation, but in many ways they are the public face of the GAA. They are broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions. They are both columnists for 'Gaelic Life'. So far, I've yet to hear of the GAA publicly distancing itself from their comments. When Burns went on a pro IRA rant on behalf of MMcG, I didn't hear any GAA 'official' step forward and say that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the organisation. Until I do, I'll assume his comments meet with general approval within the organisation. Ditto Brolly's anti NI rant.
This thread has a lot of nonsense on both sides of the argument but this rubbish takes the biscuit. The GAA are responsible for anything "broadcasters and journalists who talk about the GAA on television and at public functions" and you regard what they say as official views of the GAA? Why in the name of all that is holy would the GAA have and official view on eligibility rules for international soccer?
Can you qualify that or outline how it might work?
Should the GAA have a committee to monitor all broadcasters and journalists? They can add them to a list if the "talk about the GAA on television or at public functions" then the comittee would be responsible to monitor their views on other issues (maybe a further comittee to decide the issues that are important like eligibility rules for international soccer teams). Once a member of the list gives a view on said issues then they would report to Central Council who would decide if the odds are at variance with the official position of the GAA and issues a statement "distancing the GAA" from the comments.
/Jim.
Why not? They seem to have a committee for most other things. Jarlath Burns sits on a couple of them in fact...
http://ulster.gaa.ie/council/committees/
Of course, he's not a GAA official, Lord no.
Myles you are beyond tedious. Any GAA Official who volunteers on a committee is entitled to have and express private preferences in terms of religion, politics and even on GAA policy.
Quote from: MW on January 25, 2012, 12:48:26 PM
I wonder, how many times do you have to be shown to be so spectacularly wrong before you start to question your "themmuns bad, ussuns good" worldview that leads you to jump in feet first with these kind of comments?
I didn't say he didn't mention it, but religion is only a small part of a persons national identity, but you t**ts over there haven't the wit or cop-on to see that - that was part of the point Brolly was making. Anne-Marie Smyth has her head cut off in a Glentoran supporters club because she was a '
Catholic', Linfield or whoever never recruited players because they were '
Catholic' etc... Now you think that by getting more '
Catholics' involved people from the '
Catholic community' actually give a fcuk - they don't, because as you should have noticed through your time on this Board there's no such thing as a 'Catholic community' or at least if there is it doesn't bear any correlation to what OWC and their knuckle-dragging loyalist fellow travellers imagine it is.
As Brolly says at the end: "Some follow the green, white and gold. Some the red, white and blue. It is far more than a flag."
and it's certainly more than a religion...
Who are "you t**ts over there"? When you say "you", throughout this piece, are you ascribing views to me? Themmuns all think alike seems to be your default position.
And going by your tone it seems a lot like you don't like your downright stupid Pavlovian responses being called out - well, tough. You're going to have to get used to it.
Brolly's article was a pretty vicious tribalist piece that was chock-full of religious labels "largely Protestant Belfast Telegraph", "Ulster-born Catholic", "Northern Irish Catholics" (not one mention of the words nationalist or unionist) - but nooo, Brolly was actually just talking about national identity, it was the evil loyalists over at OWC who brought religion into it by questioning Brolly's own logic. Because, well, Brolly couldn't be in the wrong, because he's one if us, isn't he? Whereas themmuns, well they're a right shower of bastards, aren't they? It's actually bloody hilarious watching you do it, because you seem to be about as aware of your Pavlovian prejudice as a fish is of being underwater.
You're a master of psychological projection - so you project Brolly's faults onto themmuns. Witness also the "Catholic community" stuff, while simultaneously ascribing views to me and locating me on a website I don't belong to (not to mention the childish name-calling attached to this - "you t**ts") all based on your own assumptions of how themmuns think.
Sorry to have to break it to you, Ulick, but you are a "knuckle-dragger".
Quote from: MW on January 25, 2012, 02:03:45 PM
Who are "you t**ts over there"? When you say "you", throughout this piece, are you ascribing views to me? Themmuns all think alike seems to be your default position.
Obviously OWC as michealg referred to them in his post which I responded, to which you replied.
Quote from: MW on January 25, 2012, 02:03:45 PM
Brolly's article was a pretty vicious tribalist piece that was chock-full of religious labels "largely Protestant Belfast Telegraph", "Ulster-born Catholic", "Northern Irish Catholics" (not one mention of the words nationalist or unionist) - but nooo, Brolly was actually just talking about national identity, it was the evil loyalists over at OWC who brought religion into it by questioning Brolly's own logic. Because, well, Brolly couldn't be in the wrong, because he's one if us, isn't he? Whereas themmuns, well they're a right shower of b**tards, aren't they? It's actually bloody hilarious watching you do it, because you seem to be about as aware of your Pavlovian prejudice as a fish is of being underwater.
You're a master of psychological projection - so you project Brolly's faults onto themmuns. Witness also the "Catholic community" stuff, while simultaneously ascribing views to me and locating me on a website I don't belong to (not to mention the childish name-calling attached to this - "you t**ts") all based on your own assumptions of how themmuns think.
Sorry to have to break it to you, Ulick, but you are a "knuckle-dragger".
Bollocks...
Quote from: Main Street on January 25, 2012, 11:01:04 AM
I understood his past tense was defined in the line 'the ghosts of the past still hover over WP'
But I agree in general with your point because even if Brolly was referring to the past, he is far from clear and much of that paraphenalia has been dropped from the WP repetoire ages ago.
And it does nobody any good to be repeating these things from the past, time and time again, as if it's a reflection of current day. No honest cause is served by painting false images of the NI support.
Brolly is a soliciter and should know better how to compose the structure of a debate based on facts and ideology.
However the ghosts of the past still hover, as I referred to earlier in this thread could be evidenced in the Ni fans representatives on Wendy's morning radio show, where the old supremacy views bares its teeth after a little 'prodding'. And these were the reps of the NI fans. Okay, I might make an allowance for emotion getting ahead of rational argument but the more they open their mouths the more you might get the impression that the old bigotry is just under the new suit.
While Ibelieve that it is no longer as dangerous for a nationalist/cathoilic/Irish person to go to a ni soccer game - I suspect that what you have written (above in bold) is most likely still very true.
you only have to look on here at the responses in various threads to support your point.
union jacks were meant to no longer be part of the suppots flags - but they are still evident - last time I looked (think it was at the Aviva stadium in the four nations tournament).
both fai and ifa should be disbanded and a proper Ireland team should take their place under a new governing body. same as the rugby.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 24, 2012, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 24, 2012, 07:55:16 PM
The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:
"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".
Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point
And there were more Catholics playing for Linfield last Saturday than the total number of Orange Order members with Catholic spouses since the foundation of that organisation in 1796. :P
Sorry, FÓSB, but this is a gear grinder for me. There is no equivalence between the OO and the GAA and to present them as equivalent representatives of respective communities does a great disservice to the GAA, which is a sporting and cultural organisation, open to all. The Orange Order, on the other hand is a viciously sectarian outfit which excludes and denigrates people for their religious beliefs and whose whole purpose is sectarian discrimination.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 25, 2012, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 24, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
Why not? They seem to have a committee for most other things. Jarlath Burns sits on a couple of them in fact...
http://ulster.gaa.ie/council/committees/
Of course, he's not a GAA official, Lord no.
Who claimed he is not an official? What is your point?
He is a teacher too! Must his school/department also issue a statement vis-a-vis his support of Marty's presidential campaign?
Ditto Brolly and his occupation as a barrister. Should we expect the law library to make known their formal position on eligibility rules for international football.
Quite frankly, you are talking patent nonsense here. I am a GAA member and I am quite happy that the GAA don't have a formal position on said rules or on the candidacy of anyone running for president. It's as it should be. Individual members can hold their views and good luck to them.
/Jim.
Indeed. Enda Kenny is a member of the GAA, often to be heard making public statements. He recently strongly attacked the Catholic Church. Therefore the GAA is anti-catholic. See how it works in Mylesworld?
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2012, 01:04:49 PM
[Brolly says at the end: "Some follow the green, white and gold. Some the red, white and blue.
Only Offaly people ( and Oran of course ) follow the green/white/gold.
Meanwhile the Irish national Flag is Green/White /
ORANGE
Quote from: MW on January 24, 2012, 10:51:54 PM
Anyway, given that the only reason Shane Duffy didn't win a cap for Northern Ireland back in 2009 was that Nigel Worthington left him on the bench in the friendly against Italy, Brolly's making a rather spurious point (and remember Duffy played for NI at all underage levels and at B international level too).
Yeah, that blows Brolly's argument on that point right out of the water.
"both fai and ifa should be disbanded and a proper Ireland team should take their place under a new governing body. same as the rugby"
Won't be easy.
The soccer body in the 6 counties IS the Irish Football Association and its history pre-dates partition. It was the FAI who were set up in the 26 after partition - a break-away if you like - so it could be argued that the onus is on them to come back into the fold.
And pigs might fly.
Quote from: Leo on January 25, 2012, 04:51:33 PM
"both fai and ifa should be disbanded and a proper Ireland team should take their place under a new governing body. same as the rugby"
Won't be easy.
The soccer body in the 6 counties IS the Irish Football Association and its history pre-dates partition. It was the FAI who were set up in the 26 after partition - a break-away if you like - so it could be argued that the onus is on them to come back into the fold.
And pigs might fly.
yep I think we would all agree that it wouldnt be easy
but as I hear most supporters of either association are very unhappy with these muppets (ifa and fai) then surely it makes sense...
personally I'd much rather see an Ireland team - like the rugby.
I think most Irish fans would welcome it. However I suspect that most ni fans wouldnt !
Quote from: Hardy on January 25, 2012, 03:30:36 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 24, 2012, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 24, 2012, 07:55:16 PM
The point below was taken from a post on the OWC website:
"There were more Catholic players playing for Linfield last Saturday, and more Catholic players playing for Northern Ireland in their last International match than the total number of Protestants that have represented Derry GAA at senior level since partition".
Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is an interesting point
And there were more Catholics playing for Linfield last Saturday than the total number of Orange Order members with Catholic spouses since the foundation of that organisation in 1796. :P
Sorry, FÓSB, but this is a gear grinder for me. There is no equivalence between the OO and the GAA and to present them as equivalent representatives of respective communities does a great disservice to the GAA, which is a sporting and cultural organisation, open to all. The Orange Order, on the other hand is a viciously sectarian outfit which excludes and denigrates people for their religious beliefs and whose whole purpose is sectarian discrimination.
Hardy, you're absolutely correct, there's not remotely an equivalence, however, I was merely pointing up how ridiculous a comparison it was in the first instance, a
reductio ad absurdum if you will.
Quote from: MW on January 24, 2012, 11:52:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1066293#msg1066293I have already said in another post that I have first hand experience of this outside the ground. I have also had second hand evidence from trusted sources. Your evidence is no stronger than that, you are just another second hand source to me also. So its a choice of who to believe and I have never met you so I choose to go with other people's evidence[/b]
You've been told by other people on this thread that it doesn't happen. I've been posting on here for nearly 8 years (Lordy) and I'd like to think that those who've had the misfortune to follow my posts over some of that duration would know that I'm not in the business of denying instances of sectarianism. "The Billy Boys" is not sung at Northern Ireland matches, and these "trusted sources" of yours, if they exist, are misleading you in a quite appalling way.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1066293#msg1066293I can see you're struggling here so let me help you with a little soccer metaphor that's quite common in this context - "play the man, not the ball". I did not call you wierd, I called your version of events wierd. Similarly, I called your version of events fantasy.- That was personal enough to me
Well it's not personal whatsoever (ball, not man), and if you don't like an erroneous version of events being called out, you really shouldn't bother with a discussion forum
QuoteAu contraire, I enjoy being challenged - one of the reasons I enjoy posting on here. I don't like downright lies and silly personal comments.-Well stop making so many then :D
You really, really need to understand the difference between your views and statements criticised and making a personal comment, or you're never going to be able to engage is adult debate and discussion.
QuoteCan you point me to where you think I said it was acceptable?- You implied it
No, I did not. You (wrongly) inferred it.
Quote
Well, evidently not having seen this UTV Live report, can direct me to another source? One I can view/read?- Cant at the minute, what am I UTV live archivist? Why would i make this up though[[/b]quote]
Why did you make up the stuff about "The Billy Boys" still being sung at NI games?
QuotePretty significant difference between what you say and what the BBC report says.- How?[/i]
For starters, the article doesn't actually directly link the PSNI to the Dublin authorities' decision.
Quote
As I said I started the thread to discuss the whole shindig[/i]
And I am calling you out on your "Billy Boys" fantasy.
Quote
And there are not Union Flags in "big numbers". Unlike Tricolours at Ireland rugby games, which you don't have the cojones to attempt a comment on.- Of course there is, wise up lad, its all over You Tube and other places. As for Tricolours at rugby matches thats because thats the National Team and Flag. The Union Jack is not the NI flag.[/b]
If you think single figures are "big numbers", maybe.
You've just revealed a hell of a lot with that comment, by the way. The Ireland rugby team represents the island of Ireland (32 counties) - the Tricolour is the national flag of the Republic of Ireland. Isn't it rather hypocritical all your talk about flags and the rest here, when you have apparently absolutely no issue with the many, many ROI flags (many times more than you'd see Union flags at a NI football match) at Ireland rugby games?
By the way, the Union flag actually is the official NI flag...but still, I'm not a fan of its unofficial use at NI matches.
QuoteIt isn't sectarian. And again I ask - what's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games.- I said perceived. If I thought a neutral anthem would encourage more Unionists to play, I woulnt be against it. How could you be?[/b]
Good - I hope you make those views known.
QuoteYou seem genuine and passionate about NI Team so if you really want to crack this issue dont underestimate the perceived indimitation that Windsor holds for many. I am comparitively broad minded to many others and look at how difficult i am to convince [/b]
Two comments here: I think you're difficult to convince because you're believing what you want to believe. And challenging untruths like you have posted on here, and Mr Brolly had published in the Derry Journal, will actually help towards lowering the "perceived intimidation".
Quote
Hate to finish off on a bad note but what a feable excuse for being hateful[/i]
Lordy, that takes the biscuit. Saying your odd comments directed against me mde me think maybe you weren't the full shilling is "being hateful"? You've clearly been very, very lucky so far in your interpersonal relationships.
And weren't you the person who said to me..."A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality", and also said..."WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!". Again, you should watch how easy it is to come across as a hypocrite...
This is my last reply on the subject because as I said maybe 6 posts ago we should agree to disagree, and you are clearly a very rude person, which is a pity because some of your points do seem valid, but they have been ruined by the manner in which you make them. As regards the rugby flags, yes the Tricolour is the dominant flag, but the Ulster Flag is flown on the mast next to it all all home games and the IRFU employed Phil Coulter to compose a more neutral anthem which would encompass the whle island. Imagine having the tricolour flying high at Windsor for all NI home games!!
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 25, 2012, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: MW on January 24, 2012, 11:52:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1066293#msg1066293I have already said in another post that I have first hand experience of this outside the ground. I have also had second hand evidence from trusted sources. Your evidence is no stronger than that, you are just another second hand source to me also. So its a choice of who to believe and I have never met you so I choose to go with other people's evidence[/b]
You've been told by other people on this thread that it doesn't happen. I've been posting on here for nearly 8 years (Lordy) and I'd like to think that those who've had the misfortune to follow my posts over some of that duration would know that I'm not in the business of denying instances of sectarianism. "The Billy Boys" is not sung at Northern Ireland matches, and these "trusted sources" of yours, if they exist, are misleading you in a quite appalling way.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1066293#msg1066293I can see you're struggling here so let me help you with a little soccer metaphor that's quite common in this context - "play the man, not the ball". I did not call you wierd, I called your version of events wierd. Similarly, I called your version of events fantasy.- That was personal enough to me
Well it's not personal whatsoever (ball, not man), and if you don't like an erroneous version of events being called out, you really shouldn't bother with a discussion forum
QuoteAu contraire, I enjoy being challenged - one of the reasons I enjoy posting on here. I don't like downright lies and silly personal comments.-Well stop making so many then :D
You really, really need to understand the difference between your views and statements criticised and making a personal comment, or you're never going to be able to engage is adult debate and discussion.
QuoteCan you point me to where you think I said it was acceptable?- You implied it
No, I did not. You (wrongly) inferred it.
Quote
Well, evidently not having seen this UTV Live report, can direct me to another source? One I can view/read?- Cant at the minute, what am I UTV live archivist? Why would i make this up though[[/b]quote]
Why did you make up the stuff about "The Billy Boys" still being sung at NI games?
QuotePretty significant difference between what you say and what the BBC report says.- How?[/i]
For starters, the article doesn't actually directly link the PSNI to the Dublin authorities' decision.
Quote
As I said I started the thread to discuss the whole shindig[/i]
And I am calling you out on your "Billy Boys" fantasy.
Quote
And there are not Union Flags in "big numbers". Unlike Tricolours at Ireland rugby games, which you don't have the cojones to attempt a comment on.- Of course there is, wise up lad, its all over You Tube and other places. As for Tricolours at rugby matches thats because thats the National Team and Flag. The Union Jack is not the NI flag.[/b]
If you think single figures are "big numbers", maybe.
You've just revealed a hell of a lot with that comment, by the way. The Ireland rugby team represents the island of Ireland (32 counties) - the Tricolour is the national flag of the Republic of Ireland. Isn't it rather hypocritical all your talk about flags and the rest here, when you have apparently absolutely no issue with the many, many ROI flags (many times more than you'd see Union flags at a NI football match) at Ireland rugby games?
By the way, the Union flag actually is the official NI flag...but still, I'm not a fan of its unofficial use at NI matches.
QuoteIt isn't sectarian. And again I ask - what's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games.- I said perceived. If I thought a neutral anthem would encourage more Unionists to play, I woulnt be against it. How could you be?[/b]
Good - I hope you make those views known.
QuoteYou seem genuine and passionate about NI Team so if you really want to crack this issue dont underestimate the perceived indimitation that Windsor holds for many. I am comparitively broad minded to many others and look at how difficult i am to convince [/b]
Two comments here: I think you're difficult to convince because you're believing what you want to believe. And challenging untruths like you have posted on here, and Mr Brolly had published in the Derry Journal, will actually help towards lowering the "perceived intimidation".
Quote
Hate to finish off on a bad note but what a feable excuse for being hateful[/i]
Lordy, that takes the biscuit. Saying your odd comments directed against me mde me think maybe you weren't the full shilling is "being hateful"? You've clearly been very, very lucky so far in your interpersonal relationships.
And weren't you the person who said to me..."A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality", and also said..."WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!". Again, you should watch how easy it is to come across as a hypocrite...
This is my last reply on the subject because as I said maybe 6 posts ago we should agree to disagree, and you are clearly a very rude person, which is a pity because some of your points do seem valid, but they have been ruined by the manner in which you make them. As regards the rugby flags, yes the Tricolour is the dominant flag, but the Ulster Flag is flown on the mast next to it all all home games and the IRFU employed Phil Coulter to compose a more neutral anthem which would encompass the whle island. Imagine having the tricolour flying high at Windsor for all NI home games!!
The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. It should be both or neither. In this case, the IRFU gets it wrong.
Quote from: Hardy on January 25, 2012, 03:32:27 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 25, 2012, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 24, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
Why not? They seem to have a committee for most other things. Jarlath Burns sits on a couple of them in fact...
http://ulster.gaa.ie/council/committees/
Of course, he's not a GAA official, Lord no.
Who claimed he is not an official? What is your point?
He is a teacher too! Must his school/department also issue a statement vis-a-vis his support of Marty's presidential campaign?
Ditto Brolly and his occupation as a barrister. Should we expect the law library to make known their formal position on eligibility rules for international football.
Quite frankly, you are talking patent nonsense here. I am a GAA member and I am quite happy that the GAA don't have a formal position on said rules or on the candidacy of anyone running for president. It's as it should be. Individual members can hold their views and good luck to them.
/Jim.
Indeed. Enda Kenny is a member of the GAA, often to be heard making public statements. He recently strongly attacked the Catholic Church. Therefore the GAA is anti-catholic. See how it works in Mylesworld?
Good point. I enjoy Enda's contributions as a GAA pundit on BBC and RTE, while his articles in 'Gaelic Times' are right on the mark, IMO. I'm also aware he does sterling work on the many GAA committees he sits on. ::)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2012, 06:48:34 PM
The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .
The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2012, 07:55:34 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2012, 06:48:34 PM
The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .
The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.
As for the FAI "accidently" flying the yellow flag before replacing it with the Northern Ireland flag prior to the most recent ROI vs NI international? - Petty in the extreme. Given the steps taken by the IFA to make football more inclusive in the "6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc", actions such as this are hardly helping matters. Funnily enough, this was not really widely reported. Can you imagine the stink if the IFA pulled a similar stunt?
Quote from: michaelg on January 25, 2012, 08:46:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2012, 07:55:34 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2012, 06:48:34 PM
The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .
The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.
As for the FAI "accidently" flying the yellow flag before replacing it with the Northern Ireland flag prior to the most recent ROI vs NI international? - Petty in the extreme. Given the steps taken by the IFA to make football more inclusive in the "6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc", actions such as this are hardly helping matters. Funnily enough, this was not really widely reported. Can you imagine the stink if the IFA pulled a similar stunt?
Going a biteen out of your way to be offended there Michaelín ;)
There isn't a North(east)ern Ireland flag any more. .. so surely a green flag with the IFA crest in it is the appropriate flag when that area's soccer team is playing . Also might help with the oul inclusive soccer for all business ;) (and before you go whatabout - yes I know the GAA could simply fly no flag in the 6 Cos.)
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2012, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: michaelg on January 25, 2012, 08:46:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2012, 07:55:34 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2012, 06:48:34 PM
The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .
The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.
As for the FAI "accidently" flying the yellow flag before replacing it with the Northern Ireland flag prior to the most recent ROI vs NI international? - Petty in the extreme. Given the steps taken by the IFA to make football more inclusive in the "6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc", actions such as this are hardly helping matters. Funnily enough, this was not really widely reported. Can you imagine the stink if the IFA pulled a similar stunt?
Going a biteen out of your way to be offended there Michaelín ;)
There isn't a North(east)ern Ireland flag any more. .. so surely a green flag with the IFA crest in it is the appropriate flag when that area's soccer team is playing . Also might help with the oul inclusive soccer for all business ;) (and before you go whatabout - yes I know the GAA could simply fly no flag in the 6 Cos.)
Not offended in the slightest - I was simply stating that their actions were petty and unlikely to achieve anything positive
Yes I imagine Delaney went out his way to personally supervise the flying of the 9 county flag in order to inflict a serious insult on those NI fans. And cheekily put up the correct 6 county IFA flag to give the impression that it was all an honest mistake. But that stroke didn't fool the crafty NI fans.
Yes, it was a deliberate petty ploy ;D
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2012, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 25, 2012, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: MW on January 24, 2012, 11:52:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1066293#msg1066293I have already said in another post that I have first hand experience of this outside the ground. I have also had second hand evidence from trusted sources. Your evidence is no stronger than that, you are just another second hand source to me also. So its a choice of who to believe and I have never met you so I choose to go with other people's evidence[/b]
You've been told by other people on this thread that it doesn't happen. I've been posting on here for nearly 8 years (Lordy) and I'd like to think that those who've had the misfortune to follow my posts over some of that duration would know that I'm not in the business of denying instances of sectarianism. "The Billy Boys" is not sung at Northern Ireland matches, and these "trusted sources" of yours, if they exist, are misleading you in a quite appalling way.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe link=topic=20907.msg1066293#msg1066293I can see you're struggling here so let me help you with a little soccer metaphor that's quite common in this context - "play the man, not the ball". I did not call you wierd, I called your version of events wierd. Similarly, I called your version of events fantasy.- That was personal enough to me
Well it's not personal whatsoever (ball, not man), and if you don't like an erroneous version of events being called out, you really shouldn't bother with a discussion forum
QuoteAu contraire, I enjoy being challenged - one of the reasons I enjoy posting on here. I don't like downright lies and silly personal comments.-Well stop making so many then :D
You really, really need to understand the difference between your views and statements criticised and making a personal comment, or you're never going to be able to engage is adult debate and discussion.
QuoteCan you point me to where you think I said it was acceptable?- You implied it
No, I did not. You (wrongly) inferred it.
Quote
Well, evidently not having seen this UTV Live report, can direct me to another source? One I can view/read?- Cant at the minute, what am I UTV live archivist? Why would i make this up though[[/b]quote]
Why did you make up the stuff about "The Billy Boys" still being sung at NI games?
QuotePretty significant difference between what you say and what the BBC report says.- How?[/i]
For starters, the article doesn't actually directly link the PSNI to the Dublin authorities' decision.
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As I said I started the thread to discuss the whole shindig[/i]
And I am calling you out on your "Billy Boys" fantasy.
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And there are not Union Flags in "big numbers". Unlike Tricolours at Ireland rugby games, which you don't have the cojones to attempt a comment on.- Of course there is, wise up lad, its all over You Tube and other places. As for Tricolours at rugby matches thats because thats the National Team and Flag. The Union Jack is not the NI flag.[/b]
If you think single figures are "big numbers", maybe.
You've just revealed a hell of a lot with that comment, by the way. The Ireland rugby team represents the island of Ireland (32 counties) - the Tricolour is the national flag of the Republic of Ireland. Isn't it rather hypocritical all your talk about flags and the rest here, when you have apparently absolutely no issue with the many, many ROI flags (many times more than you'd see Union flags at a NI football match) at Ireland rugby games?
By the way, the Union flag actually is the official NI flag...but still, I'm not a fan of its unofficial use at NI matches.
QuoteIt isn't sectarian. And again I ask - what's your position on a "neutral" anthem for Gaelic games.- I said perceived. If I thought a neutral anthem would encourage more Unionists to play, I woulnt be against it. How could you be?[/b]
Good - I hope you make those views known.
QuoteYou seem genuine and passionate about NI Team so if you really want to crack this issue dont underestimate the perceived indimitation that Windsor holds for many. I am comparitively broad minded to many others and look at how difficult i am to convince [/b]
Two comments here: I think you're difficult to convince because you're believing what you want to believe. And challenging untruths like you have posted on here, and Mr Brolly had published in the Derry Journal, will actually help towards lowering the "perceived intimidation".
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Hate to finish off on a bad note but what a feable excuse for being hateful[/i]
Lordy, that takes the biscuit. Saying your odd comments directed against me mde me think maybe you weren't the full shilling is "being hateful"? You've clearly been very, very lucky so far in your interpersonal relationships.
And weren't you the person who said to me..."A guy/girl attending frequenting GAA board but also admittting to attending NI matches during some of their most sectarian years. I would not just call this weird but symptomatic of a split personality", and also said..."WM or sorry MW. Got mixed up with your name, you know what its like to be mixed up obviously!". Again, you should watch how easy it is to come across as a hypocrite...
This is my last reply on the subject because as I said maybe 6 posts ago we should agree to disagree, and you are clearly a very rude person, which is a pity because some of your points do seem valid, but they have been ruined by the manner in which you make them. As regards the rugby flags, yes the Tricolour is the dominant flag, but the Ulster Flag is flown on the mast next to it all all home games and the IRFU employed Phil Coulter to compose a more neutral anthem which would encompass the whle island. Imagine having the tricolour flying high at Windsor for all NI home games!!
The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. It should be both or neither. In this case, the IRFU gets it wrong.
The oficial flag of NI is the Union Flag, the official flag of the NI Assembly is a Flax Branch on a white field. The Loyalist Ulster Flag favoured by NI Fans is not official. The Ulster Flag (9) is flown because it represents the Ulster Branch. Rugby protocol dictates that when Ireland play at Ravenhill the Union Flag is flown.
Quote from: michaelg on January 25, 2012, 08:46:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2012, 07:55:34 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2012, 06:48:34 PM
The 9 county Ulster flag is flown, which is quite correct. However, if the symbols of the 26 county state are used at these home matches (and the flag and the anthem are both in evidence) then to be consistent the IRFU should also use the symbols of the 6 county state too. .
The 6 Co devolved administration has no flag therefore the 6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc hasnt got a symbol to compare with the Tricolour.
As the Ulster Branch of the IRFU runs rugby in the 6 Co area and the IRFU run the rugby internationals it's fair to say the IRFU got it right.
As for the FAI "accidently" flying the yellow flag before replacing it with the Northern Ireland flag prior to the most recent ROI vs NI international? - Petty in the extreme. Given the steps taken by the IFA to make football more inclusive in the "6 Co "state"/Statelet/twothirds of a Province/area/etc", actions such as this are hardly helping matters. Funnily enough, this was not really widely reported. Can you imagine the stink if the IFA pulled a similar stunt?
They actually should have flown the Union Flag. The NI Flag as you call it is not official.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2012, 06:50:43 PM
Good point. I enjoy Enda's contributions as a GAA pundit on BBC and RTE, while his articles in 'Gaelic Times' are right on the mark, IMO. I'm also aware he does sterling work on the many GAA committees he sits on. ::)
Okay Myles, I will try one last time. I accept that Brolly and Burns are members of the GAA, active in the GAA and are also pundits/journalists.
Now do you believe the GAA as and organisation should have a formal position on:
- Eligibility rules for international football
- Candidates in the Republic's Elections
/Jim.
do i not like that!! can't knock the IFA for lack of entertainment off the field anyway
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17111237
Fcuk he'd need to be careful putting stuff like that in the news . . . Trapp may be in like a shot!!!